I let my kids play mindcraft but that is it. i do have grand theft auto on
an old windows partition that NEVER gets used, but someday we may loosen up
on them. i personally would like to play sometimes myself, but it seems
like it is hard to communicate with someone when they are playing a game,
as opposed to surfing, watching tv, or reading a book; as when you are
playing a game it is hard to even look up for a minute to acknowledge the
person who is speaking. i would like to think that my kids and myself will
someday be able to handle video games, just not yet.

On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 6:04 PM, Linda Kateley <lkateley at kateley.com> wrote:

> One of my friends is an investor in oculus rift. You can buy the dev kit
> for like $300 if i remember right..
>
> On 8/23/16 4:52 PM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>
> oculus rift reminds me of an article i read in mid 2000's about augmented
> reality and how they were working on overlays for the various things you
> would want to know about something like a building.
>
> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> oh, and thank you for your kind words about my parenting and my in site.
>> that is uplifting.  and true, ayyyyyyy
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:47 PM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>    i am a stay at home father. my wife went to Le Cordon Bleu for
>>> college. when I had a medical break in my career, she took over and i never
>>> looked back.
>>>    we do have a garden and "we grow our own money" as i have heard said
>>> in some random TED Talk. also interested in this TED Talk about microbes:
>>> https://www.ted.com/talks/lisa_dyson_a_forgotten_space_age_t
>>> echnology_could_change_how_we_grow_food?language=en but have yet to
>>> indulge myself.
>>>    i would like to do something positive for people, to make a
>>> difference with my time, not only for me but for others. I used to be a
>>> part of Rotary International for years. I like to give. I feel as though
>>> with the time on my hands i can do something for me while showing my kids
>>> what can be accomplished. should i fall short of this goal, i will have
>>> raised my 4 children to be aware that they can do things that make life
>>> fair for all people.
>>>    and to further wander off topic my long term personal goal is to get
>>> land and a wind generator made from scratch, then have it make me money
>>> with our average 12 mph wind speed. then build more. but that is for me to
>>> make money, not to feel good about myself.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Besides being a good mother, you value learning, community, and even
>>>> Linux. Wow, that's a plate full!
>>>>
>>>> Staying off Linux topic here to avoid expert rebukes, may I suggest
>>>> other opportunity in your young family's future. Having mentioned the new
>>>> atmospheric CO2 levels can grow plants faster, we also can improve soil
>>>> quality with new carbon. Even the oil and coal industry is looking at black
>>>> dirt as the only remedy for climate change issues seen related to CO2
>>>> emissions. It is called carbon sequestration. In our experience, we get
>>>> phenomenal improvement in gardens with black dirt added. Nothing a little
>>>> child loves better than eating a homegrown strawberry. I hope you can enjoy
>>>> such creative gifts with your family.
>>>>
>>>> Seeing creative opportunity in Linux, community, arts, lifestyle, and a
>>>> hopeful future sure beats competing for top barking dog status. As SuSE
>>>> Linux says after installation, "Have a lot of fun." Life is too damn short.
>>>>
>>>> Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> i have spent many hours reading as much as i can handle from the ideas
>>>>> in these responses. i am barely beyond the last point that i has mentioned
>>>>> the wireless mesh stuff. i am in research heaven. my overactive brain is
>>>>> just loving all the angles that you are offering me to consider! we, 4 kids
>>>>> under 8 and me, have a raspberry pi 2 and arduino uno. a small arsenal of
>>>>> parts i am accumulating. they get direction in the form of: consider what
>>>>> this really is, wood, metal, and plastic make up parts, but what makes it
>>>>> do what it is supposed to do and why does it only do that? could it do
>>>>> something else. can you put it inside of a different enclosure and have it
>>>>> do the same thing, something different? I give them power tools and scrap
>>>>> wood (someday when i have more tools i will offer them other materials).
>>>>> that gets their brains moving and ideas come forth (got the idea from a TED
>>>>> Talk). my 2 year old counts the sockets and nails etc... she can count to
>>>>> 26. was 2 in jan. providing opportunities (much like Linux provides
>>>>> unlimited options) and directions for them to look, never what they
>>>>> "should" see.
>>>>> I have so much to tell you all, but i need to spend more time reading
>>>>> through this 1 email at a time doing research all the way. I am so excited.
>>>>> whether the school provides the kind of things i would like to see or not,
>>>>> i am learning so much and my children will be benefiting from this speech
>>>>> from the way i am able to understand and get through to them; have to get
>>>>> them interested to learn.
>>>>>
>>>>> Community! so many different people from so many backgrounds with
>>>>> varying interests come together with a common interest; and it isn't money!
>>>>> Thank you all!  (but keep it coming!)
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:04 AM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com
>>>>> <mailto:eng at pinenet.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>     Having separately suggested a specific Linux software use to
>>>>>     better understand cellulose biofuels, for the sake of kids I take
>>>>>     issue with your assertion.
>>>>>
>>>>>     We do know the global population has doubled in the last 50 years.
>>>>>     And we do know kids will face shortages of food, water, energy,
>>>>>     and housing in the next 50 years. Call it logic or arithmetic or
>>>>>     social planning. We also know there are a lot of guns and bad
>>>>>     attitudes that seem to be getting worse.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Luckily, my kids are grown, college grads, some actually employed
>>>>>     in Silicon Valley. Scientists from India are eager. Same ol, same
>>>>>     ol in Minnesota. Always a smart way to do nothing.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     Linda Kateley wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>         So that's the reason I pointed them to that mit programming
>>>>>         program ... Kids need to understand logic, it is way to teach
>>>>>         programming logic without language.. There used to be
>>>>>         something similar back in the day called bluejay which did
>>>>>         something very similar but got people more ready for objects
>>>>>         and was intended for college.
>>>>>
>>>>>         Whatever we think it is going to be like for them(my kids are
>>>>>         15), we are going to be wrong. Something else will come. Some
>>>>>         new innovation. Logic to me is the key to everything.
>>>>>         Arduino's are cool and already being used in most of the robot
>>>>>         clubs.. Languages will change shift and move.. but if they
>>>>>         understand they have to speak to the device in it's language
>>>>>         and build program's, I think they will be alright. I speak
>>>>>         native solaris, but can move between os's like shoes cause I
>>>>>         know how they work.
>>>>>
>>>>>         Sorry for pontification.
>>>>>
>>>>>         lk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>         On 8/22/16 4:44 PM, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>             Having done Biophysics grad school in the late 1970s ->
>>>>>             early 80s my first effort was to push those new
>>>>>             microcomputers and even fiber optics. We had a meeting in
>>>>>             Lowertown, St. Paul and by then I had an Epson QX10 and
>>>>>             somehow managed to draw a 3D peptide structure that
>>>>>             calculated liquid crystal electro-optic properties. Old
>>>>>             Biophysics Prof. Otto Schmitt, whom I introduced as the
>>>>>             "father of digital electronics" by throwing out some new
>>>>>             Radio Shack Schmitt trigger ICs, remarked, "Who did this?"
>>>>>             So the high point of my career came and went, the internet
>>>>>             happened, everything is microcontroller controlled,
>>>>>             lightweight displays are the norm, friends that tried to
>>>>>             automate factories with pneumatic controls are broke,
>>>>>             Lowertown is beautiful, Communist China is the world's
>>>>>             biggest manufacturing economy.
>>>>>
>>>>>             I like SuSE Linux because they always included hundreds of
>>>>>             programs. IBM data explorer is worth learning before I'm
>>>>>             90. I learned there is now a Protein Data Bank, advanced
>>>>>             programs to use it, and a nice XScreensaver to draw
>>>>>             molecules. I like the Arduino toys, and am surprised how
>>>>>             they exploit the Unix terminal connection. Most stuff I
>>>>>             use is not in standard distros, like FreePascal, but the
>>>>>             "forms library," oddly enough is in "Raspbian," the
>>>>>             Raspberry Pie distro. Etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>             So when a couple of school computer administrators get
>>>>>             praise for just wanting to hear about Linux, I wonder how
>>>>>             they will ever catch up.
>>>>>
>>>>>             r hayman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>                 Relevancy.
>>>>>                 To remain relevant in many job fields, students must
>>>>>                 learn about open source software and Linux. To prepare
>>>>>                 our students and our future work force to be relevant
>>>>>                 when they enter the work force, academia and the
>>>>>                 business world need to be aligned and that alignment,
>>>>>                 in many ways is with open source software.
>>>>>
>>>>>                 Running open source or COTS software is seldom a
>>>>>                 business differentiator today, it may only be a
>>>>>                 (negative) differentiator based on licensing and
>>>>>                 support costs.
>>>>>
>>>>>                 Pharmaceutical research, weather forecasting, climate
>>>>>                 and environment research, simulations of all types,
>>>>>                 manufacturing, design, you name it, it predominantly
>>>>>                 runs on Linux and open source.
>>>>>
>>>>>                 For example, visit
>>>>>                 https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/
>>>>>                 <https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/> and filter
>>>>>                 on TOP500 Release: June 2016; then Category(ies):
>>>>>                 Operating System, Application Area, and Segments.
>>>>>
>>>>>                 You will find that of the top 500 supercomputer sites
>>>>>                 in the world, not a single one runs either Windows or
>>>>>                 Mac OS X. Only 16 - just a hair over 3%, run something
>>>>>                 other than some obvious distribution of Linux.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>                 On Mon, 2016-08-22 at 15:22 -0500, Rick Engebretson
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>                     When my kids were in High School I tried working
>>>>>                     with our school
>>>>>                     district (Mora, MN.) in about 1998 just to get
>>>>>                     programming taught,
>>>>>                     somewhere. The school used all Macs but had at
>>>>>                     least one MSWindows 95 in
>>>>>                     some kind of lab. On a day they canceled school
>>>>>                     because of an ice storm
>>>>>                     I called and they said I could install the QBasic
>>>>>                     from Windows, along
>>>>>                     with program examples galore. So I left my kids
>>>>>                     home and drove to town
>>>>>                     and installed it all. I later went to school board
>>>>>                     meetings and they
>>>>>                     fought me until my kids all graduated. "Political"
>>>>>                     is an understatement.
>>>>>
>>>>>                     I use Linux because I can program it. I don't know
>>>>>                     how kids can make it
>>>>>                     in the future without knowing electronics and
>>>>>                     programming. It seems they
>>>>>                     are trying to cripple kids with sports, and retard
>>>>>                     them intellectually.
>>>>>                     It sure wasn't that way in the 1960s.
>>>>>
>>>>>                     Linda Kateley wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>                         I started working with my school district
>>>>>                         about 10 years ago. The problems I find there
>>>>>                         are always political and never about
>>>>>                         technology. What worked for me is to find one
>>>>>                         champion in the system that speaks the
>>>>>                         administrations language. I found there were a
>>>>>                         ton of people who wanted to know, just not at
>>>>>                         the top. I introduced scratch to the
>>>>>                         elementary STEM school about 5 years ago,
>>>>>                         https://scratch.mit.edu/. It was the districts
>>>>>                         first involvement with opensource or
>>>>>                         community. The project has been very very
>>>>>                         successful and it opened the doors to more.
>>>>>                         But then they hired a new superintendent that
>>>>>                         thought it was stupid so..that happened ;(
>>>>>                         linda On 8/21/16 10:43 AM, Sandwhich Eyes
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>                             I have already given one presentation at
>>>>>                             the Blair Taylor School with the principal
>>>>>                             and an IT guy and have been asked to give
>>>>>                             a follow up talk to them and the head of
>>>>>                             the IT department. They had macbook air
>>>>>                             for the older kids and ipads for the
>>>>>                             younger ones. They bring these home at the
>>>>>                             end of the school day. This time they
>>>>>                             decided to go with cromebooks. It one of
>>>>>                             the best.. rated or testing, can't think
>>>>>                             of an appropriate word, but with the
>>>>>                             quality of the teachers out here i am
>>>>>                             pretty sure they could give my kids sticks
>>>>>                             and a box of sand and they would still be
>>>>>                             well prepared for life on their
>>>>>                             own/college. I am 100% positive they will
>>>>>                             be much better off if they can learn
>>>>>                             without restrictions from open source
>>>>>                             hardware, software, classes (like MIT
>>>>>                             offers open courseware) and the ability to
>>>>>                             choose, to not be scolded for breaking
>>>>>                             some license agreement or for reading and
>>>>>                             modifying code should that be an interest.
>>>>>                             I want them to have Linux. I have gave a
>>>>>                             compelling argument in the last meeting.
>>>>>                             This time I want to have as many resources
>>>>>                             available to provide for them, including
>>>>>                             reasons why schools frequently choose to
>>>>>                             not use Linux. Anything will help. I had
>>>>>                             quite the presentation last time and the
>>>>>                             IT guy didn't know what Unix or BSD 4.4
>>>>>                             was; or Linux, BSD, Solaris. Seems Ubuntu
>>>>>                             provides computers reloaded with Linux and
>>>>>                             tablets so how they didn't find anything
>>>>>                             about open source or Linux/BSD/ETC is
>>>>>                             beyond me. I gave them a live Ubuntu OS on
>>>>>                             a thumb drive. I wanted to make some more
>>>>>                             and use persistence to load up some
>>>>>                             information to give to the IT people who
>>>>>                             are possibly way under informed, to give
>>>>>                             them plenty of time on their own to absorb
>>>>>                             what open source has to offer; mostly
>>>>>                             community! They asked many questions about
>>>>>                             community. Yes we work together and keep
>>>>>                             our favorite distributions alive often
>>>>>                             without corporate support!
>>>>>                             ______________________________
>>>>> _________________
>>>>>                             TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul,
>>>>>                             Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>                             <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>>                             <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>                             <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>
>>>>>                             http://mailman.mn-linux.org/ma
>>>>> ilman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>                             <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/m
>>>>> ailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>                         _______________________________________________
>>>>> TCLUG
>>>>>                         Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>                         tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>                         <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>>                         <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>                         <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>
>>>>>                         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/ma
>>>>> ilman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>                         <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/m
>>>>> ailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>                     _______________________________________________
>>>>>                     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul,
>>>>> Minnesota
>>>>>                     tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>                     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>>                     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>                     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>
>>>>>                     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/ma
>>>>> ilman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>                     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/m
>>>>> ailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>                 _______________________________________________
>>>>>                 TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>                 tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.or
>>>>> g>
>>>>>                 http://mailman.mn-linux.org/ma
>>>>> ilman/listinfo/tclug-list <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/m
>>>>> ailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>>>             TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>             tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>>             http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>             <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>>>         TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>         <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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