i have spent many hours reading as much as i can handle from the ideas in these responses. i am barely beyond the last point that i has mentioned the wireless mesh stuff. i am in research heaven. my overactive brain is just loving all the angles that you are offering me to consider! we, 4 kids under 8 and me, have a raspberry pi 2 and arduino uno. a small arsenal of parts i am accumulating. they get direction in the form of: consider what this really is, wood, metal, and plastic make up parts, but what makes it do what it is supposed to do and why does it only do that? could it do something else. can you put it inside of a different enclosure and have it do the same thing, something different? I give them power tools and scrap wood (someday when i have more tools i will offer them other materials). that gets their brains moving and ideas come forth (got the idea from a TED Talk). my 2 year old counts the sockets and nails etc... she can count to 26. was 2 in jan. providing opportunities (much like Linux provides unlimited options) and directions for them to look, never what they "should" see. I have so much to tell you all, but i need to spend more time reading through this 1 email at a time doing research all the way. I am so excited. whether the school provides the kind of things i would like to see or not, i am learning so much and my children will be benefiting from this speech from the way i am able to understand and get through to them; have to get them interested to learn. Community! so many different people from so many backgrounds with varying interests come together with a common interest; and it isn't money! Thank you all! (but keep it coming!) On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:04 AM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com> wrote: > Having separately suggested a specific Linux software use to better > understand cellulose biofuels, for the sake of kids I take issue with your > assertion. > > We do know the global population has doubled in the last 50 years. And we > do know kids will face shortages of food, water, energy, and housing in the > next 50 years. Call it logic or arithmetic or social planning. We also know > there are a lot of guns and bad attitudes that seem to be getting worse. > > Luckily, my kids are grown, college grads, some actually employed in > Silicon Valley. Scientists from India are eager. Same ol, same ol in > Minnesota. Always a smart way to do nothing. > > > Linda Kateley wrote: > >> So that's the reason I pointed them to that mit programming program ... >> Kids need to understand logic, it is way to teach programming logic without >> language.. There used to be something similar back in the day called >> bluejay which did something very similar but got people more ready for >> objects and was intended for college. >> >> Whatever we think it is going to be like for them(my kids are 15), we are >> going to be wrong. Something else will come. Some new innovation. Logic to >> me is the key to everything. Arduino's are cool and already being used in >> most of the robot clubs.. Languages will change shift and move.. but if >> they understand they have to speak to the device in it's language and build >> program's, I think they will be alright. I speak native solaris, but can >> move between os's like shoes cause I know how they work. >> >> Sorry for pontification. >> >> lk >> >> >> On 8/22/16 4:44 PM, Rick Engebretson wrote: >> >>> Having done Biophysics grad school in the late 1970s -> early 80s my >>> first effort was to push those new microcomputers and even fiber optics. We >>> had a meeting in Lowertown, St. Paul and by then I had an Epson QX10 and >>> somehow managed to draw a 3D peptide structure that calculated liquid >>> crystal electro-optic properties. Old Biophysics Prof. Otto Schmitt, whom I >>> introduced as the "father of digital electronics" by throwing out some new >>> Radio Shack Schmitt trigger ICs, remarked, "Who did this?" So the high >>> point of my career came and went, the internet happened, everything is >>> microcontroller controlled, lightweight displays are the norm, friends that >>> tried to automate factories with pneumatic controls are broke, Lowertown is >>> beautiful, Communist China is the world's biggest manufacturing economy. >>> >>> I like SuSE Linux because they always included hundreds of programs. IBM >>> data explorer is worth learning before I'm 90. I learned there is now a >>> Protein Data Bank, advanced programs to use it, and a nice XScreensaver to >>> draw molecules. I like the Arduino toys, and am surprised how they exploit >>> the Unix terminal connection. Most stuff I use is not in standard distros, >>> like FreePascal, but the "forms library," oddly enough is in "Raspbian," >>> the Raspberry Pie distro. Etc. >>> >>> So when a couple of school computer administrators get praise for just >>> wanting to hear about Linux, I wonder how they will ever catch up. >>> >>> r hayman wrote: >>> >>>> Relevancy. >>>> To remain relevant in many job fields, students must learn about open >>>> source software and Linux. To prepare our students and our future work >>>> force to be relevant when they enter the work force, academia and the >>>> business world need to be aligned and that alignment, in many ways is with >>>> open source software. >>>> >>>> Running open source or COTS software is seldom a business >>>> differentiator today, it may only be a (negative) differentiator based on >>>> licensing and support costs. >>>> >>>> Pharmaceutical research, weather forecasting, climate and environment >>>> research, simulations of all types, manufacturing, design, you name it, it >>>> predominantly runs on Linux and open source. >>>> >>>> For example, visit https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/ and filter >>>> on TOP500 Release: June 2016; then Category(ies): Operating System, >>>> Application Area, and Segments. >>>> >>>> You will find that of the top 500 supercomputer sites in the world, not >>>> a single one runs either Windows or Mac OS X. Only 16 - just a hair over >>>> 3%, run something other than some obvious distribution of Linux. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, 2016-08-22 at 15:22 -0500, Rick Engebretson wrote: >>>> >>>>> When my kids were in High School I tried working with our school >>>>> district (Mora, MN.) in about 1998 just to get programming taught, >>>>> somewhere. The school used all Macs but had at least one MSWindows 95 >>>>> in >>>>> some kind of lab. On a day they canceled school because of an ice storm >>>>> I called and they said I could install the QBasic from Windows, along >>>>> with program examples galore. So I left my kids home and drove to town >>>>> and installed it all. I later went to school board meetings and they >>>>> fought me until my kids all graduated. "Political" is an >>>>> understatement. >>>>> >>>>> I use Linux because I can program it. I don't know how kids can make it >>>>> in the future without knowing electronics and programming. It seems >>>>> they >>>>> are trying to cripple kids with sports, and retard them intellectually. >>>>> It sure wasn't that way in the 1960s. >>>>> >>>>> Linda Kateley wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I started working with my school district about 10 years ago. The >>>>>> problems I find there are always political and never about technology. What >>>>>> worked for me is to find one champion in the system that speaks the >>>>>> administrations language. I found there were a ton of people who wanted to >>>>>> know, just not at the top. I introduced scratch to the elementary STEM >>>>>> school about 5 years ago, https://scratch.mit.edu/. It was the >>>>>> districts first involvement with opensource or community. The project has >>>>>> been very very successful and it opened the doors to more. But then they >>>>>> hired a new superintendent that thought it was stupid so..that happened ;( >>>>>> linda On 8/21/16 10:43 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I have already given one presentation at the Blair Taylor School >>>>>>> with the principal and an IT guy and have been asked to give a follow up >>>>>>> talk to them and the head of the IT department. They had macbook air for >>>>>>> the older kids and ipads for the younger ones. They bring these home at the >>>>>>> end of the school day. This time they decided to go with cromebooks. It one >>>>>>> of the best.. rated or testing, can't think of an appropriate word, but >>>>>>> with the quality of the teachers out here i am pretty sure they could give >>>>>>> my kids sticks and a box of sand and they would still be well prepared for >>>>>>> life on their own/college. I am 100% positive they will be much better off >>>>>>> if they can learn without restrictions from open source hardware, software, >>>>>>> classes (like MIT offers open courseware) and the ability to choose, to not >>>>>>> be scolded for breaking some license agreement or for reading and modifying >>>>>>> code should that be an interest. I want them to have Linux. I have gave a >>>>>>> compelling argument in the last meeting. This time I want to have as many >>>>>>> resources available to provide for them, including reasons why schools >>>>>>> frequently choose to not use Linux. Anything will help. I had quite the >>>>>>> presentation last time and the IT guy didn't know what Unix or BSD 4.4 was; >>>>>>> or Linux, BSD, Solaris. Seems Ubuntu provides computers reloaded with Linux >>>>>>> and tablets so how they didn't find anything about open source or >>>>>>> Linux/BSD/ETC is beyond me. I gave them a live Ubuntu OS on a thumb drive. >>>>>>> I wanted to make some more and use persistence to load up some information >>>>>>> to give to the IT people who are possibly way under informed, to give them >>>>>>> plenty of time on their own to absorb what open source has to offer; mostly >>>>>>> community! They asked many questions about community. Yes we work together >>>>>>> and keep our favorite distributions alive often without corporate support! >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List >>>>>>> - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto: >>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/ma >>>>>>> ilman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>>>>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto: >>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/ma >>>>>> ilman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org> >>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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