Having separately suggested a specific Linux software use to better understand cellulose biofuels, for the sake of kids I take issue with your assertion. We do know the global population has doubled in the last 50 years. And we do know kids will face shortages of food, water, energy, and housing in the next 50 years. Call it logic or arithmetic or social planning. We also know there are a lot of guns and bad attitudes that seem to be getting worse. Luckily, my kids are grown, college grads, some actually employed in Silicon Valley. Scientists from India are eager. Same ol, same ol in Minnesota. Always a smart way to do nothing. Linda Kateley wrote: > So that's the reason I pointed them to that mit programming program > ... Kids need to understand logic, it is way to teach programming > logic without language.. There used to be something similar back in > the day called bluejay which did something very similar but got people > more ready for objects and was intended for college. > > Whatever we think it is going to be like for them(my kids are 15), we > are going to be wrong. Something else will come. Some new innovation. > Logic to me is the key to everything. Arduino's are cool and already > being used in most of the robot clubs.. Languages will change shift > and move.. but if they understand they have to speak to the device in > it's language and build program's, I think they will be alright. I > speak native solaris, but can move between os's like shoes cause I > know how they work. > > Sorry for pontification. > > lk > > > On 8/22/16 4:44 PM, Rick Engebretson wrote: >> Having done Biophysics grad school in the late 1970s -> early 80s my >> first effort was to push those new microcomputers and even fiber >> optics. We had a meeting in Lowertown, St. Paul and by then I had an >> Epson QX10 and somehow managed to draw a 3D peptide structure that >> calculated liquid crystal electro-optic properties. Old Biophysics >> Prof. Otto Schmitt, whom I introduced as the "father of digital >> electronics" by throwing out some new Radio Shack Schmitt trigger >> ICs, remarked, "Who did this?" So the high point of my career came >> and went, the internet happened, everything is microcontroller >> controlled, lightweight displays are the norm, friends that tried to >> automate factories with pneumatic controls are broke, Lowertown is >> beautiful, Communist China is the world's biggest manufacturing economy. >> >> I like SuSE Linux because they always included hundreds of programs. >> IBM data explorer is worth learning before I'm 90. I learned there is >> now a Protein Data Bank, advanced programs to use it, and a nice >> XScreensaver to draw molecules. I like the Arduino toys, and am >> surprised how they exploit the Unix terminal connection. Most stuff I >> use is not in standard distros, like FreePascal, but the "forms >> library," oddly enough is in "Raspbian," the Raspberry Pie distro. Etc. >> >> So when a couple of school computer administrators get praise for >> just wanting to hear about Linux, I wonder how they will ever catch up. >> >> r hayman wrote: >>> Relevancy. >>> To remain relevant in many job fields, students must learn about >>> open source software and Linux. To prepare our students and our >>> future work force to be relevant when they enter the work force, >>> academia and the business world need to be aligned and that >>> alignment, in many ways is with open source software. >>> >>> Running open source or COTS software is seldom a business >>> differentiator today, it may only be a (negative) differentiator >>> based on licensing and support costs. >>> >>> Pharmaceutical research, weather forecasting, climate and >>> environment research, simulations of all types, manufacturing, >>> design, you name it, it predominantly runs on Linux and open source. >>> >>> For example, visit https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/ and >>> filter on TOP500 Release: June 2016; then Category(ies): Operating >>> System, Application Area, and Segments. >>> >>> You will find that of the top 500 supercomputer sites in the world, >>> not a single one runs either Windows or Mac OS X. Only 16 - just a >>> hair over 3%, run something other than some obvious distribution of >>> Linux. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, 2016-08-22 at 15:22 -0500, Rick Engebretson wrote: >>>> When my kids were in High School I tried working with our school >>>> district (Mora, MN.) in about 1998 just to get programming taught, >>>> somewhere. The school used all Macs but had at least one MSWindows >>>> 95 in >>>> some kind of lab. On a day they canceled school because of an ice >>>> storm >>>> I called and they said I could install the QBasic from Windows, along >>>> with program examples galore. So I left my kids home and drove to town >>>> and installed it all. I later went to school board meetings and they >>>> fought me until my kids all graduated. "Political" is an >>>> understatement. >>>> >>>> I use Linux because I can program it. I don't know how kids can >>>> make it >>>> in the future without knowing electronics and programming. It seems >>>> they >>>> are trying to cripple kids with sports, and retard them >>>> intellectually. >>>> It sure wasn't that way in the 1960s. >>>> >>>> Linda Kateley wrote: >>>>> I started working with my school district about 10 years ago. The >>>>> problems I find there are always political and never about >>>>> technology. What worked for me is to find one champion in the >>>>> system that speaks the administrations language. I found there >>>>> were a ton of people who wanted to know, just not at the top. I >>>>> introduced scratch to the elementary STEM school about 5 years >>>>> ago, https://scratch.mit.edu/. It was the districts first >>>>> involvement with opensource or community. The project has been >>>>> very very successful and it opened the doors to more. But then >>>>> they hired a new superintendent that thought it was stupid >>>>> so..that happened ;( linda On 8/21/16 10:43 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote: >>>>>> I have already given one presentation at the Blair Taylor School >>>>>> with the principal and an IT guy and have been asked to give a >>>>>> follow up talk to them and the head of the IT department. They >>>>>> had macbook air for the older kids and ipads for the younger >>>>>> ones. They bring these home at the end of the school day. This >>>>>> time they decided to go with cromebooks. It one of the best.. >>>>>> rated or testing, can't think of an appropriate word, but with >>>>>> the quality of the teachers out here i am pretty sure they could >>>>>> give my kids sticks and a box of sand and they would still be >>>>>> well prepared for life on their own/college. I am 100% positive >>>>>> they will be much better off if they can learn without >>>>>> restrictions from open source hardware, software, classes (like >>>>>> MIT offers open courseware) and the ability to choose, to not be >>>>>> scolded for breaking some license agreement or for reading and >>>>>> modifying code should that be an interest. I want them to have >>>>>> Linux. I have gave a compelling argument in the last meeting. >>>>>> This time I want to have as many resources available to provide >>>>>> for them, including reasons why schools frequently choose to not >>>>>> use Linux. Anything will help. I had quite the presentation last >>>>>> time and the IT guy didn't know what Unix or BSD 4.4 was; or >>>>>> Linux, BSD, Solaris. Seems Ubuntu provides computers reloaded >>>>>> with Linux and tablets so how they didn't find anything about >>>>>> open source or Linux/BSD/ETC is beyond me. I gave them a live >>>>>> Ubuntu OS on a thumb drive. I wanted to make some more and use >>>>>> persistence to load up some information to give to the IT people >>>>>> who are possibly way under informed, to give them plenty of time >>>>>> on their own to absorb what open source has to offer; mostly >>>>>> community! They asked many questions about community. Yes we work >>>>>> together and keep our favorite distributions alive often without >>>>>> corporate support! >>>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing >>>>>> List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>> <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org> >>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List >>>>> - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>> <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org> >>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org> >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >