On 2012-12-14 16:28, Chuck Cole wrote:
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
>> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Justin Krejci
>> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 4:04 PM
>> To: TCLUG Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] HP Pavilions and Linux
>>
>> On Fri, 2012-12-14 at 15:51 -0600, Chuck Cole wrote:
>>> My last HP (2000) popped ball bonds on the CPU several times,
>>> requiring motherboard replacements.  The mechanical design lacked
>>> proper support to dampen vibrations in the motherboard.  An
>> employer
>>> back then required me to use their Dell Latitude and I
>> discovered the
>>> spec difference in episodes of HP repairs.  I had other issues with
>>> the HP as well.  Had to contact HP product support in
>> France to get some Linux
>>> drivers because Linux was not fully supported in the USA
>> then.   HP is not
>>> the top brand it once was!
>>
>> Having no opinion myself on comparing Dell and HP... your
>> time frame of Y2k seems a bit antiquated... in
>> computer/Internet terms 12+ years is ancient stuff, I am sure
>> a lot has changed with both Dell and HP since then.
>
> Yes: HP Corp and products have gone downhill since then.  Check your data,
> and rely less on your various opinions.  My initial discovery of the HP
> shoddy design and lacking mechanical / environmental product line specs was
> long ago, but it has not been fixed, and Dell remains the superior pro
> gear... by spec, by enduring performance, and by market share.  For a laptop
> that sits around or is only carried about within the office, it doesn't
> matter much, and HP seems fine in that context, but not for durable
> transport, etc.

  OK, I'll bite.

  HP Pavilion laptops are consumer-grade.  I'm quite familiar with them; 
I've got a g7-1167dx to my right and my wife's dv7 something-or-other is 
in the other room.  The g7 is a bit flimsy, but I haven't done any 
damage to it in the 18 months I've owned it.  It's pretty 
Linux-friendly; it'll run Team Fortress 2 with no issues (on Fedora, 
which isn't even officially supported by Valve).  The dv7 has somewhat 
better build quality, but I seem to recall it's a bit more pricy.  (My 
wife asked me to note that she's harder on laptops than I am^H^H^H^Hmost 
people, and she hasn't managed to kill any of her last four HPs -- the 
older of which are still alive and well as other people's hand-me-downs.)

  Now, in terms of build quality, neither of these will stand up to an 
older Latitude -- because they're not in the same product category.  If 
you want to compare apples to apples, either look at Dell's Inspiron 
line (which, last I checked 2-3 years ago, felt even flimsier than my 
g7) or HP's EliteBook series.  Until you've tried one of those (which it 
sounds like you haven't), don't blow off HP's build quality -- you don't 
know what you're talking about.

  Granted, I'm not a full-time user of an EliteBook (although two of my 
team members are); my enterprise HP experience is mostly on the server 
side, where in my professional opinion Dell has really been falling 
behind (as well as in their business relationships, but that's another 
topic entirely).

  Regarding HP the corp: they've been doing some neat stuff with their 
server offerings (especially in the rack-dense realm), but I haven't 
seen anything particularly revolutionary from their laptop segment. 
(The EliteBooks are very nice, but not terribly ground-breaking, IMO.) 
Their storage BU seems to be somewhat schizophrenic, although the same 
could easily be said of Dell's.  Lenovo seems to be putting in more 
effort in the laptop/desktop market, that I've seen.  (I've gotta say, 
the Tiny is pretty dang awesome.)  I can't recall the last time I've 
been wowed by anything Dell's put out, though.  There may be a reason.

  In case anyone is growing suspicious: I don't work for HP, just a 
large company with a strange mix of Lenovo (laptops/desktops), HP 
(servers/laptops), and Dell (servers/desktops/laptops that haven't 
managed to get decommissioned yet).  My last employer was very much a 
Dell shop, mostly because they were the cheapest business-oriented 
vendor at the time; I've had the good luck to see the worst Dell has to 
offer.

  Any questions?

      Jima