You say that you like the place that you work so much that you don't want to leave, then I say you don't have any reason to gripe. If you like a place so much, you shouldn't need to bargain. I guess it just seems to me that you liked the place so much you felt you needed to go on strike. That doesn't make too much sense to me. I guess I really don't know though. If I don't like my job, I just bitch and complain never really doing anything about it until they get sick of hearing me and "downsize" me giving me reason to go and find a job elsewhere. What I'm saying is that I'm spineless and I really don't know anything. You did give a good example with the cellular company but it all comes down to one thing as far as I'm concerned. Karl Marx said that all history is a series of class struggles. Struggles between the Bourgeoisie and the Proletariat. Basically, the Business Owners, and the Workers. This would seem to hold true. While I do disagree with Mr. Marx that this (Capitalism) needed to be stopped, I don't agree with his solution. Those who own businesses have the right to run them as they see fit. They are the ones that will lose, the workers can always find another place to work. They also took the risk, where as the workers took none. So I guess that's why I sometimes have a problem with unions. It's too easy for the workers to make claim that the company is their. Who was Karl Marx by the way? He invented the idea of Communism. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Benjamin Exley Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 10:35 AM To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: RE: [TCLUG] OT: union job > Unions have no place in the IT/IS field. I would have to disagree. Unfortunatly, I've been in a position where I've felt it nessecary to use collective bargaining to get what we wanted. What was it? We wanted to be treated fairly, and not have to leave our jobs. This isn't to say that we couldn't get better paying jobs elsewhere, it's just that we like the place we work so much that we didn't WANT to leave. We felt the only way we could get people to listen to our concerns was to threaten to leave as a whole. It is amazing how quickly people start listening when the entire IS department threatens to walk off the job. They wouldn't have listened if only a few people made that descision. Maybe we didn't technically have a union, but we were a union in spirit. For another example of a white colar union, take a look at Boeing. In the mid-90s, many of the engineers there felt that the company was headed in the wrong direction, and felt that their concerns were not being addressed. They loved working there so much that they couldn't stand to see the company suffer due to the acts of a few people in upper management. They decided to unionize, and did in fact go on strike. That brought on changes very quickly, and the people I've talked to about it generally regard it as a positive experience. Unionizing is sometimes the only way to be effectively heard and respected. Sad but true. ok i'm done. Ben ----- Benjamin Exley Information Systems Manager The Minnesota Daily bexley at mndaily.com (612) 627-4070 Ext. 3190 _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list at mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list