I disagree with your statement.  The answer may be obvious to you (the 
links at the bottom of the
messages), how to solve the problem may be obvious to you (use google to 
get to the
TCLUG website), but for whatever reason, it wasn't obvious to uak or the 
question wouldn't
have been raised.  And uak was trying to do some sort of research by 
investigating the 
archives, so it's not like there was no initiative.

Many people are just starting to investigate linux.  One suggestion they 
hear repeatedly is that if you need help, check out the local LUG.  Keep 
in mind, many (most?) of these people don't know how mailing lists work, 
don't really understand how LUGs operate; they're not stupid, they just 
have limited experience in this kind of online environment.  So someone 
asks a question, and they're told they should feel shame for even asking. 
That person comes away feeling put off by 'those linux snobs', which is 
not what we want.

What's wrong with people asking obvious questions?  If you think it's a 
dumb question, DON'T ANSWER IT!  But don't insult people who are just 
asking for help.

[OT tangent]: Teaching kids how to use computers shouldn't mean just 
teaching them Excel or StarOffice or any particular app, or even word 
processsing in general.  It should be about teaching them how to access 
and utilize resources like the web, mailing lists & archives, and 
generally about how to hunt down info.  One of the things I've noticed in 
moving to open source solutions over the years is that I don't pay much 
attention to ads for commercial software any more.  And I suspect many 
linux users are the same.  In contrast, MS users are accustomed to 
solving problems by relying on ads they see for commercial products.  
They're used to buying MS's stuff, and so, without even thinking about it 
really, approach all other computer problems with a "What can I buy to 
solve this problem" attitude.  It never even occurs to them to look for a 
free alternative.
[/tangent]



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

On 12/5/01, 6:55:53 PM, Ben Lutgens <blutgens at sistina.com> wrote regarding 
Re: [TCLUG] archived threads:


> On Wed, 2001-12-05 at 16:43, Thomas Eibner wrote:
> > > > If you think I am idiot, keep it to yourself, I don't need to hear
> it.
> > >
> > > > uak
> > >
> > > I don't think insulting someone for asking a question is 'welcoming'
> and
> > > neither did uak apparently.
> > > Perhaps he meant it as humor but I don't think it comes across that
> way.

> oh well. I didn't directly call the person who wrote this question an
> idiot but as they say "If the shoe fits...."

> All I said was that the person should feel shame. Does anyone disagree
> with that statement? Who else was thinking it?

> Oh and to further add insult to injury....

> Go to http://www.google.com and type "twin cities linux user group" in
> the search box. The TOP link is http://www.mn-linux.org if you click
> that link you get *GASP* the LUG website which CLEARLY has links to the
> mailing lists and thier archives.

> Was asking a crime? No. But will said person think twice and perhaps
> exercise a little reason and conduct some research before posting a
> question that they (admittedly) knew was not exactly a tough one to
> answer....


> > I read that sentence over and over again and I can't see the insulting
> > part in it. She said herself she was asking the question even though
> > it might have been answered 300 times on the list before. And in fact
> > it had been since Bob changed the list signature to have all the nice
> > info in it.

> Don't defend me Thom, let em whine.

> --
> Ben Lutgens           
> System Administrator
> Sistina Software Inc. 

> "If you love someone, set them free. If they come home, set them on
> fire."
>       - George Carlin