Re: [TCLUG:22762] Re: Mandrake... (Debian pitch!)

[Andy Zbikowski <andyzb@ltiflex.com>]

Firstly, I wanted to point out that not every situation needs an ISO. It
seems to me that many people think they absoultely need the ISO, which isn't
always the case. Being able to install via the network was a must when I was
working on an older laptop that didn't have a CDROM. 

>advantages:
> 
> 1. Stability: avoids reliance on bleeding edge "unstable" software.
> 2. Security: serious effort is made to deliver a secure system and to
> repair security holes.
> 3. Ease of administration: apt-get.
> 4. Convenience: Easy to install a "bare-bones" system, using minimal
> hard drive space.

5. Community: Debian's IRC channel and mailing list are great and very
responsive to people who need help, want to help, or just shoot the bull.


> 
> Some of the disadvantages I've encountered with debian in the past are
> 
> 1. Inconvenience: Typically slow to adopt nifty new features, such as
> kernel 2.2, available in other distros.

As with any distro, there is nothing to stop you from running any version of
the kernel you want. I was running a 2.2 kernel on a slink box before I
switched to potato, which was unstable at the time (very unstable do to the
glibc2.0 to 2.1 upgrade...) 

One of the neat (well, some think so) packages in debian is make-kpkg, which
makes kernel packages. Grab the source, do your make config, then make-kpkg
--revision=custom.1.0 kernel_image. Even supports cross compiling and other
neat features. This is a great tool when running machines where you don't
want the tools for compiling kernels installed. Build the package on another
machine and scp it over. 

make-kpkg will even build packages for extra modules (like alsa and
lm-sensors), no kernel patching necissary. 

Most of the time pre-packaged kernels get in my way, so I see the fact that
they are included in other distros as in inconvience. (Debian can be a pain
when it wants to change you over to the latest version of the package
kernel, even though you compiled your own. Always put those kernel package
on hold when doing a dist-upgrade. Normal upgrades ignore the kernel) I
perfer to compile my own, mostly so I know what options are enabled. (I know
this is true for Debian, don't know about others. The packaged kernel has
APM disabled so it's not ideal to run a stock kernel on a laptop.)

> 2. Inconvenience: Debian ISOs I've tried in the past have been missing
> essential "non-free" software such as Netscape.

I belive that the official ISOs leave out the non-free branch, though I
could be wrong. The last Debian ISO I bought was 1.3 from Cheap Bytes. I
seem to remember that there was the Netscape installer package, but not
netscape. You had to grab the netscape archive from netscape.com and drop in
in /tmp

Keep in mind though that there is nothing that says you have to distribute
an OS with a web browser, so maybe the fact that you have to download
Netscape is a good thing. Besides, not everyone would see Netscape as
essential.

> 3. Inconvenience: Able to install full distro, including a journaling
> file system such as ReiserFS, on a non-networked laptop computer?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the journaling portions of ReiserFS still
in the developmental stages? I'd wouldn't expect (or want) debian to suport
it until it is stable. 

Now, the following is really, truely my opinion and nothing more.

Seems what you see as inconveniences are "features" that other
distribuations provide, even though these features are still developmental,
tempermental, unstable,  or otherwise agnist the beliefs stated in Debian's
Social Contract.

That said, back to the ISO issue. Yes, there are situations where having a
CD set is needed. The idea behind Debian's Psudo Image Kit is that it
reduces the load on it's ISO mirrors. The psudo image kit will create
official Debian ISO's from any Debian mirror. It's really a neat idea. 

Every distribution has it's strengths and shortcomings. I've seen advantages
in every distribution, and weaknesses in every dist as well. I choose Debian
mainly because of the network install options, and am now quite comfortable
with the ways Debian does things. I imagine that I'd be just as reluctant to
change from SuSE or Slackware if I was comfortable with the way they do
things. RedHat is another story. 

One distro does not fit all. So choose your distro on what you precive to be
it's strengths and weaknesses. 

-- 
Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin   | (PH)  763-428-9119 (EX:132)
LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (FAX)  763-428-9126
21801 Industrial Blvd       | (PCS) 612-306-6055
Rogers, MN  55374           | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com
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