Ascend Archive
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Re: (ASCEND) Upgrade procedures: so simple. Not!

>At 09:29 AM 3/3/98 -0800, Peter Lalor wrote:
>>
>>To some extent, I agree with this. I guess I take it for granted that
>>things are going to be complicated with equipment at the level of a Max or
>>a TNT, but with a device like a Pipeline, it's ludicrous.
>
>I guess I must be too familiar with the Pipeline to see the complexity we
>are discussing here....

Exactly. If you put a typical purchaser of a Pipeline in front of one and
tell them to do something, bingo! Instant brainlock.

>>We just put up a page on our web site for people with our two most common
>>client routers, Pipelines and Netopias. It's like looking at the difference
>>between installation instructions for the same software on a Mac or a PC.
>
>Hey, but you're biassed Peter (Infoasis is a MAC shop ;)

It's not my intention to start one of those wars on this list. ;-) This is
about routers.

Absolutely I am biased. In favor of ease of use wherever and whenever
possible. Ascend doesn't approach it this way. Objectively, if you look at
just the quantity of verbiage in the docs to acomplish a given thing, be it
Ascend vs Netopia or Mac vs PC, the Netopia and the Mac are obviously
designed with the carbon-based operator in mind. Why is this relevant?
Netopia (ne Farallon) came from the Mac world, doing things for dummies,
and went after the Pipeline market, doing things for dummies. Ascend comes
from the opposite approach, and it shows. It may be fine to fly your
engineers out to Ascend for TNT training, but Ascend appears to be unaware
that things are different for the type of person buying an ISDN BRI router.
Remember, both Ascend and us, the ISPs, have to support these people.

>>The Ascend section is vague and muddled, and suggests you download release
>>notes and documentation, just so you can begin to pick the right file to
>>download.
>
>Maybe you could help us by explaining what is vague and muddled. The Tech
>Pubs group regularly works with feedback from sources like this.

Check this out:

http://www.infoasis.com/Infoasis/support/Routerfirmware.html

Notice the complexity of the instructions for Ascend vs. those for Netopia.
Imagine you don't know what the hell you're doing. Now, anyone who's done
Pipeline upgrades before (or written tech docs for Ascend) knows that we
could flesh out that Ascend section enormously. Those instructions (written
by myself) are vague and muddled because I didn't want to rewrite Ascend's
copious docs. So I just put links to 'em.

>>Then you've got to get it installed. Do you know how many of my
>>clients run a TFTP server? Roughly, oh, zero.
>
>They could TFTP from *your* TFTP server if you have such a service. I believe
>that Ascend support are also establishing a TFTP server to test out this
>option (actually I know they've had one for a while, but I suspect that the
>capacity was not sufficient to allow us to 'advertise' it).

Of course. I'd also have to reproduce Ascend's docs regarding filenames and
feature sets, whether the Pipe has a switch on the back...

Not to mention that these has been historical info on this list that
TFTPing remotely can lose the config. So I'd have to research which
versions have that bug, post that info, tell people how to tell what
version they have now... get my drift?

I humbly suggest that Ascend reconsider running their own TFTP server and
making easy-to-follow links on the web server for performing upgrades. I
submit that is is Ascend's responsibility (along with El Nino), not ISPs.

>>I think the difference comes from Ascend's background providing arcane
>>equipment like Maxen to engineers. IMO, taking this approach with Pipelines
>>is a recipe for beefing up your tech support budget and irritating
>>customers. Or just having them buy Netopias.
>
>Ouch! Definitely one for the product manager to mull over....

We sell both. People choose Netopias for the built-in DHCP server,
ease-of-use, and T1 upgradeability, possibly in that order. Those are key
points that Ascend is currently behind on. People choose Ascends if we
recommend them, but I honestly can't see where they win right now. I do
really like the 130.

>>And as you can see from this list, people running Maxen aren't too thrilled
>>with it either. And we're supposed to know what we're doing.
>
>If we regularly read the release notes when upgrading, then many of the
>questions that do come up are already answered there....just *my* 2c.

Agreed. Personally, my initial befuddlement with the 6.0 filenaming was
resolved by reading this list, the readme, and the docs. Sounds about
right... ;-)

Peter Lalor
Infoasis
plalor@infoasis.com
http://www.infoasis.com/
415-459-7991 x102
415-459-7992 fax


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