And I could publish "stupid router tricks" as an RFC too. There is a difference between a protocol that serves a purpose, and one which does not and is simply overhead. BACP and MP+ are overhead and serve NO rational purpose. Period. BOTH ends of any sync device are perfectly capable of determining line utilization on *any* sync circuit *without* any special protocols. If you think about this problem for 20 seconds BEFORE running off to design some bastardization to handle it, you will realize that whenever a sync channel is idle an HDLC flag is sent down the channel to keep it "alive". These flags can be *counted* -- easily (Computers are, after all, primarily counting machines). By counting them, knowing what the wallclock time is that has elapsed, and knowing the data rate (which is 56 or 64kbps per channel for ISDN) you can determine TRIVIALLY what the line utilization is within a few percent. Now, given this information, which is available to BOTH ends of the connection for BOTH transmit and receive data, why do you need any kind of special protocol to bring up and down new channels in an MPP bundle? Answer: You *do not* need such things. This is true even if your hardware is too stupid to count BYTES which flow over the link at the protocol layer -- and most hardware is quite competent to do that. In fact, most hardware DISPLAYS such data in the connection status information windows. If you're counting and DISPLAYING it, how o hard is it to divide by passed time to get BPS rates? Talk to SGI if you don't believe me. They've done this right now for something like three+ years, long before MP+ or BACP were even a dream in the bastard-standards writers eyes. C'mon ASCEND -- get this one right and quit hiding behind bullshit excuses. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin <A HREF="http://www.mcs.net/~karl">http://www.mcs.net/~karl</A> | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex modem support is now available Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| 56kbps DIGITAL ISDN DOV on analog lines! Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | 2 FULL DS-3 Internet links; 400Mbps B/W Internal ++ Ascend Users Mailing List ++ To unsubscribe: send unsubscribe to ascend-users-request@bungi.com To get FAQ'd: <<A HREF="http://www.nealis.net/ascend/faq">http://www.nealis.net/ascend/faq</A>> </PRE> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <STRONG>Follow-Ups</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A HREF="msg08763.html">Re: (ASCEND) Inter operability & BACP,DBA,BOD et. al.</A></STRONG></LI> <UL> <LI><EM>From</EM>: James Johnson <plexus@seanet.com></LI> </UL> </UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A HREF="msg08742.html">Re: (ASCEND) Inter operability & BACP,DBA,BOD et. al.</A></STRONG></LI> <UL> <LI><EM>From</EM>: ascend@digistar.com</LI> </UL> <LI><STRONG><A HREF="msg08725.html">(ASCEND) Inter operability & BACP,DBA,BOD et. al.</A></STRONG></LI> <UL> <LI><EM>From</EM>: James Johnson <plexus@seanet.com></LI> </UL> <LI><STRONG><A HREF="msg08756.html">Re: (ASCEND) Inter operability & BACP,DBA,BOD et. al.</A></STRONG></LI> <UL> <LI><EM>From</EM>: Matt Holdrege <matt@ascend.com></LI> </UL> </UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <HR> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg08760.html">Re: (ASCEND) My new p75 is toast!</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg08756.html">Re: (ASCEND) Inter operability & BACP,DBA,BOD et. al.</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg08756.html">Re: (ASCEND) Inter operability & BACP,DBA,BOD et. al.</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg08763.html">Re: (ASCEND) Inter operability & BACP,DBA,BOD et. al.</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="mail6.html#08757"><STRONG>Main</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thrd165.html#08757"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> </BODY> </HTML>