I was definitely over the top for options, but Brian's original email didn't say what the purpose was of the system, but he did seem to indicate he wanted it to keep running for days at a time, not just minutes. If it is a critical piece of hardware, the suggestions should reflect that. But in general, if it is just a server PC at home or even a moderately important server at a business, then a UPS with more load capability or fewer minutes of backup time is an important consideration. But for 99% of the systems, I don't see the need for anything beyond 10-15 minutes of backup load support and a serial, USB, or network connection to tell the server or computer(s) to shut down safely when the battery time is half used.... Or look at it another way.... Why should I try to keep my server running when my ISP has been dead for hours or days? Ask the people in St Louis Park who are out of power still. Even cell sites usually only have so much battery backup before the cell company needs to bring in a motor generator of some sort. I've thought about this frequently. If there was a power outage, winter or summer, having a backup generator to keep the fridge and freezer running, enough to run the pump or fans on the furnace, and maybe a few lights is all I'd really need. Something in the 4KW to 6KW size if probably enough. But if I want to keep the whole house running and all the computers and radio gear, I'd probably better be looking for a 10KW to 15KW unit... $$$$.... Doug. On 6/23/13, tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org <tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org> wrote: > Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Dealing with power outages (kaze0010 at umn.edu) > 2. Re: Dealing with power outages (gregrwm) > 3. Re: Dealing with power outages (Doug Reed) > 4. Re: Dealing with power outages (Ryan Coleman) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: 22 Jun 2013 22:57:24 -0500 > From: kaze0010 at umn.edu > To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> > Cc: Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages > Message-ID: <Gophermail.2.0.1306222257240.10880 at vs-m.tc.umn.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=UTF-8 > > How about a multipurpose, easily transportable, nearly always ready to go > 3-5kW generator? 40 hour runtime at 1000 watt load. > http://priups.com/ > http://priuschat.com/threads/prius-as-a-generator-revisited.39613/ > http://priuschat.com/threads/priups-using-the-prius-as-a-backup-generator.12430/ > > You can get some nice impressive runtimes with this option. These projected > > runtimes are based on measured fuel consumption at various loads. The > second link above contains the same table in case this gets mangled in > transit. > > kwh/month | Idle | User | Total | Tank | Runtime | Burnrate | Real kwh | > Real | User kwh | User Load > =avg base | Load | Load | Load | (gal) | (hrs) | gal/hr | Produced | > Efficiency | Produced | Efficiency > load | watts| watts| watts | | | | | | | > > 72 315.8 100 416 10 126.58 0.079 52.632 0.15949 12.658 0.038 > 180 315.8 250 566 10 93.02 0.108 52.632 0.15949 23.256 0.070 > 360 315.8 500 816 10 64.52 0.155 52.632 0.15949 32.258 0.098 > 540 315.8 750 1066 10 49.38 0.203 52.632 0.15949 37.037 0.112 > 720 315.8 1000 1316 10 40.00 0.250 52.632 0.15949 40.000 0.121 > 1080 315.8 1500 1816 10 28.99 0.345 52.632 0.15949 43.478 0.132 > 1440 315.8 2000 2316 10 22.73 0.440 52.632 0.15949 45.455 0.138 > 1800 315.8 2500 2816 10 18.69 0.535 52.632 0.15949 46.729 0.142 > 2160 315.8 3000 3316 10 15.87 0.630 52.632 0.15949 47.619 0.144 > 2520 315.8 3500 3816 10 13.79 0.725 52.632 0.15949 48.276 0.146 > 2880 315.8 4000 4316 10 12.20 0.820 52.632 0.15949 48.780 0.148 > 3240 315.8 4500 4816 10 10.93 0.915 52.632 0.15949 49.180 0.149 > 3600 315.8 5000 5316 10 9.90 1.010 52.632 0.15949 49.505 0.150 > 3960 315.8 5500 5816 10 9.05 1.105 52.632 0.15949 49.774 0.151 > 7200 315.8 10000 10316 10 5.10 1.960 52.632 0.15949 51.020 0.155 > > > > On Jun 22 2013, Ryan Coleman wrote: > >>IDK, that's not a lot of juice on that, Brian... >> >>What's the VAC rating of your UPS? My 1500 ran over 100 minutes when I >>turned off my server - it was at 23 minutes before that. >> >>On 6/22/2013 4:57 PM, Brian Wood wrote: >>> Yesterday evening the power at my office went out and was >>> off for about 8 hours. My APC UPS lasted for about 50 minutes >>> of that. I'm thinking about buying a Duracell emergency power >>> source. > > http://www.amazon.com/Duracell-DRPP600-Powerpack-Starter-Emergency/dp/B009YR00MI/ref=pd_sim_auto_5#productDetails >>> >>> The instructions for the APC UPS say to only plug it directly >>> into a wall socket. I'm wondering if I could plug the Duracell >>> thing into the APC UPS and then plug my computer stuff to that. >>> >>> The alternative is to use them one at a time and manually switch >>> from the APC UPS to the Duracell thing when the APC UPS is almost >>> dead. I was around last evening so it wouldn't have been a problem, >>> but if chaining them would work, it wouldn't matter if I wasn't around. >>> >>> I'm also thinking about bicycle generator systems: >>> http://www.pedalpowergenerator.com/ >>> >>> I've seen Frank and Amelia use something like that at the State Fair. >>> >>> What do you think? >>> >>> -- >>> Brian Wood >>> Ebenezer Enterprises - So far G-d has helped us. >>> http://webEbenezer.net >>> >>> >>> If you're thinking of buying something over the internet, you might >>> want to buy it before the DFL taxes on online purchases kick in on >>> July1st. I think prices will increase by 6.5% after that. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 00:25:46 -0500 > From: gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> > Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages > Message-ID: > <CAD+dB9BO+wDagz4K=JxEKdS12MHdv+Qa3oXZy3=TGe9+fZexkg at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > how about a couple solar panels? plus batteries if you want, or, take the > attitude that if the sun isn't shining, it must be time to take a break. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20130623/59fb5367/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 02:22:16 -0500 > From: Doug Reed <n0nas at amsat.org> > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages > Message-ID: > <CAL+RLOQXZO5WscdECX8ykFNWpz6DomwaVnbUFMvDqYHqqPy6JQ at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi Brian. > > My take on UPS systems is that they are only useful to ride out a > short outage so the computer can be shut down properly. Without a > really huge battery system you will not ride out a really long outage > anyway. > > In my hobby work, a friend puts a cheap UPS on each radio+computer > system he installs. He used to buy expensive UPSes to get extended > run time. Now he just buys the cheapest one that will give him > maybe 10 minutes backup time to carry over on a short outage. Just be > sure to hook it up for auto-shutdown on the computer. > > If it is critical to keep the system up full time, then you need to > buy and install a generator system with automatic-start and an > automatic-transfer switch that runs on natural gas or maybe propane. > On natural gas you are likely to have a long term supply of fuel for > the generator. But if you are worried about the possibility of NG > being shut off in an emergency, then you may want to buy a > propane-based generator instead. For a long-term emergency backup, > gasoline is least desirable. Diesel is just a little bit better. > In my opinion, propane and NG are the best for long-term stability.... Many > companies go with diesel systems for other reasons.... I think diesel > has too many design challenges in our winter environment. > > For some of the radio sites I know, a 15KW propane-fired generator is > standard and it needs a minimum 500 gallon propane tank to support the > generator at full load and should run for about 3 to 5 days before the > tank needs to be refilled. At lower load it might run for 8 to 10 days > before refilling.... But that is a really serious annual expense. > > Doug. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 02:28:05 -0500 > From: Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com> > To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> > Cc: "tclug-list at mn-linux.org" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages > Message-ID: <043D764E-AE0E-41BA-925A-AAD22ACBB9A0 at me.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I think we're all over thinking this. > > > > On Jun 23, 2013, at 2:22, Doug Reed <n0nas at amsat.org> wrote: > >> Hi Brian. >> >> My take on UPS systems is that they are only useful to ride out a >> short outage so the computer can be shut down properly. Without a >> really huge battery system you will not ride out a really long outage >> anyway. >> >> In my hobby work, a friend puts a cheap UPS on each radio+computer >> system he installs. He used to buy expensive UPSes to get extended >> run time. Now he just buys the cheapest one that will give him >> maybe 10 minutes backup time to carry over on a short outage. Just be >> sure to hook it up for auto-shutdown on the computer. >> >> If it is critical to keep the system up full time, then you need to >> buy and install a generator system with automatic-start and an >> automatic-transfer switch that runs on natural gas or maybe propane. >> On natural gas you are likely to have a long term supply of fuel for >> the generator. But if you are worried about the possibility of NG >> being shut off in an emergency, then you may want to buy a >> propane-based generator instead. For a long-term emergency backup, >> gasoline is least desirable. Diesel is just a little bit better. >> In my opinion, propane and NG are the best for long-term stability.... >> Many >> companies go with diesel systems for other reasons.... I think diesel >> has too many design challenges in our winter environment. >> >> For some of the radio sites I know, a 15KW propane-fired generator is >> standard and it needs a minimum 500 gallon propane tank to support the >> generator at full load and should run for about 3 to 5 days before the >> tank needs to be refilled. At lower load it might run for 8 to 10 days >> before refilling.... But that is a really serious annual expense. >> >> Doug. >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 102, Issue 30 > ******************************************* >