I challenge the notion that to have "scope and breadth" one must give computers to computer illiterates for use in their homes. Linux may not be the best solution for what you wish to do right now. With Linux in more places, like school labs, that may change. Linux terminal server clients do not require a 166MHz pentium with 32MB of RAM. My P75 with 16MB was a very nice and speedy X terminal client, but I don't know if I needed that much power. This solution also becomes much easier to manage as more clients are added, compared to a Win* solution (with the possible exception of WinCE thin terminals, but ick!). That's probably why Ryan mentioned it. >>> LCLEMENS at mn.rr.com 12/18/03 04:07PM >>> Fine. I was using a slide rule before most TCLUGers were born. Now has anyone got a Linux with GUI that will run on a 266MHz machine with 64 MB RAM? Thanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lawrence Clemens Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools I believe this organization supplies free computers to needy kids from low income families. I believe they take donated computers and install an MS OS on them and other software. They pay an intermediate organization a $5 license fee for each W98 SE or W2K they install, this fee covers the intermediate organization's record keeping and policing these programs (nationwide) to make sure the recipients (could be kids, low-income adults, single moms with no computer skills, etc.) meet Microsoft's requirements and that see that licenses don't get pirated and that some accounting or record keeping is kept. That makes them Microsoft Approved Refurbishers. You can see the whole program at https://www.techsoup.org/mar/ If you want to do a charitable program that has some breadth and scope, the MS way is presently the only way to go, much as I'd like to think Linux has a shot. Here's why: most of the computers that would be available for donation or for purchase by lot at auction for a reasonable price are going to be Pentium 1 and 2's with speeds about 166 to 300 MHz, maybe as high as 450 MHz. Older machines like 386's and 486's are to slow for any practical use with W98 (MS does not support W95). So one can load the OS and then a lot of freeware (OO, Abiword, lots more to make it functional). One can put on a cheap winmodem ($10 or less) and access the Internet. (The only modems that would work on 386 and 486's would be the more expensive hardware modems or the few remaining modems that sold as expensive " ISA legacy replacements".) Why won't Linux work? Several reasons: All practical computer use by ordinary people is done with a GUI. The Linux GUI is getting better and better but at a speed cost. So while W98 will run perfectly fine on a 166 MHz machine with 32 MB RAM, I challenge anyone to show me a Linux system with a functional GUI that will run on even a 266MHz P2 with 64 MB RAM. (I've tried mainstream stuff like SuSE and Mandrake, and the trimmed down offerings like Koppix, Morphix, and DSL - they can't do it.) Even if you load Open Office on a Windows Pentium machine there better be 64 MB RAM. To my mind this is OK, Linux developers have reasonably gone with the flow to faster machines and designed for them. In a couple of years maybe the low end computers available for donation or auction will be fast enough to run Linux GUI systems. When they are available, they still won't be good products for these kids or moms, because each system has to be configured for the peripherals (rehab volunteers like me have just so much time to donate per machine). So maybe you can put a cheap winmodem on a Linux system (in two years the state of art for Linux has moved some distance in this respect), but odds are very long that it will have to be configured or compiled individually, and the hook up to the Internet (after kid or mom gets this thing home) will not be simple like the Windows setup. Or a printer is not a slam dunk. Say the kid gets home and a week later someone gives him a printer? Lots of luck! Unless his next door neighbor is a System Administrator it won't get configured or compiled, even with the friendliest of systems. Then imagine if someone wanted to add a scanner! Thanks for the chance to speak to this. I think the Linux folks are doing a great job, and maybe closing the gap. But I read the posts to this group with some frequency and see even the adept among you routinely run into the type of problems that I am describing. Look at your Installfests - nifty as they are and you donate a lot of hours to put Linux into beginner's hands. Look at the beginners you are helping: they are often bright young people or old computer hands that just need a push forward. Think about how an installfest for 10 year old's from broken homes would go. So Microsoft has this outreach program that is both charitable and defensive at the same time. Get 'em hooked on Windows early and fight off criticism about operating systems being too expensive for low income people. You can impute bad motives, but the same guy is giving $500 million to fight AIDS around the globe. And does he have a system that works? You bet. BTW if I have gotten it all wrong and you have systems that are dropins to older computers and easily adapt peripherals, I would love to hear from you and get educated. That's what TLUG is for. Thanks for the forum. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ryan Hayle" <hackel at walkingfish.com> To: "TCLUG Mailing List" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 12:55 AM Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools > Is anyone affiliated with or heard of this organization? It sounds like > an absolutely great program, but it has an obvious problem: "Microsoft > Authorized Refurbisher." Linux is the best choice for any school > computer lab--I just hate to see our funding-starved schools wasting > money on MS licenses. MCFS offers a 32-seat PIII Computer Lab for > $8700. Imagine what percentage of that is MS licenses! Must be 20% at > least! > > Anyways, I thought I would see if this topic has ever been brought up > before, either with this organization or as an independent project. > Setting up Linux labs for schools has been a big interest of > mine--especially setting up Linux Terminal Server labs on old > hardware--this alone could save schools thousands, or at the very least > allow them to open additional labs or provide a terminal in every class. > What do you think? > > Ryan > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list at mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list at mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list at mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list