If that's true, why have I not been offered a job? (hint, hint, to whomever's hiring) Eric On Sat, 25 Nov 2000, you wrote: > Not true. When I was at Internet Exposure I eventually hired an > apprentice of sorts. Igor was 10 years my senior, had 2 inches and 60 > pounds on me, but was hired as more or less an assistant admin. He knew > basic unix, from a user standpoint (perms, file manipulation, etc) but he > wanted to learn everything about unix administration. He did very well, > learned extremely quickly. Eventually he became more interested in the > networking side of things, and went and got his CCNA after I had left the > company. Between him and one of the programmers, they were able to keep > the company functioning until my replacement was found. > > You're right about experience though, and that's always been difficult. > The only way to become good at your job is through experience, but > breaking into the field to get that experience is tough. Fortunately for > us, the demand for skilled tech workers is high enough that many companies > will take whoever they can get. > > Adam Maloney > Systems Administrator > Sihope Communications > > On Sat, 25 Nov 2000, Jamie Ostrowski wrote: > > > > > > > While I certainly agree that certifications have become abused for the > > most part (look at the MCSE), I think that the only way to become a good > > admin is EXPERIENCE! I think that getting certification by no means makes > > someone a good admin in the least, I think it shows they know enough where > > once in the workplace and in an environment where problems crop up, they > > can start applying their book knowledge towards real life problems. You > > still need training in real life after the certification, but the only > > place to receive that is mainly through work. But who is going to hire an > > apprentice Unix admin?? Answer: NOBODY. > > The sad truth is, when you are working with this stuff at your job you > > learn very quickly. But it is very hard getting into the job to start true > > learning. That is the frustration I am dealing with right now. Especially > > when the government and market place is in such an upheavel, nobody wants > > to hire. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 24 Nov 2000, Adam Maloney wrote: > > > > > <opinion mode=noflame plea=pretty-please> > > > BrainBench certs are worthless in the job market. Besides the > > > tests being too easy to cheat, the exams are poorly thought out. > > > > > > According to them, I'm one of the top-fifty fastest typers in America (at > > > least I was...so long ago) > > > The unix admin test asked me what a user ID was. I passed with > > > flying colors. Knowing what a UID is makes me a unix admin? > > > > > > We've had this discussion on isp-services. Brainbench is good for a > > > laugh, but no company will hire you for it. I don't know that the $750 > > > RedHat test is taken any more seriously, but at least it won't be as > > > diluted as Brainbench because it's so expensive. > > > > > > <rant> > > > Brainbench became as bad as MCSE, but in 1/10th of the time. I don't know > > > anything about the redhat exam, but let me tell you what a good > > > certification is not. For $1000 you can go to an MCSE boot camp, memorize > > > the possible questions and answers, and statistically only have to take > > > the test 2 or 3 times until you get 75% (or whatever) of the answers > > > that you remembered. Congratulations, you're an MCSE/CCNA/A+ or whatever. > > > You'll get hired as the head of IT because of your MCSE, but you won't > > > know anything. Maybe this is why most NT systems suck so bad - nothing > > > but the anti-clues running the show. You know that TCP/IP is that thingy > > > you need to install to make your NT system talk to the internet, but you > > > don't know that it's based on a 7-layer burrito...er...model. Subnet > > > masks are always 255.255.255.0. Event Viewer is how you troubleshoot, > > > etc. > > > </rant> > > > > > > Again, I don't know how the redhat exam is put together, so I can't say > > > whether it's worth the money or not. I'm sure you'll do very well, but > > > don't expect to be able to whip out a Brainbench certificate during an > > > interview and not get laughed at. You might as well buy a degree from the > > > Diploma Spammer (once spammed, twice LARTed). > > > > > > </opinion> > > > > > > <fact> > > > Some companies might pay for the test. Working down the hall from, and > > > providing access to Ascolta and Techskills, I get quite a deal on tests > > > and certs (if I only had the friggin time!). Many companies will pay for > > > your training and certification, if it will make you more valuable to > > > them. > > > </fact> > > > > > > <sig (hey, I'm on a roll here...)> > > > Adam Maloney > > > Systems Administrator > > > Sihope Communications > > > > > > On Fri, 24 Nov 2000, grey Moon-Wolf wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > --- Jamie Ostrowski <jamie at floyd.getsetnet.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was thinking about studying for the RHCE test. > > > > > Has anyone here thought > > > > > about studying, or have taken the test? > > > > > I must admit I was shocked by the price to take > > > > > the test. $749! I wonder > > > > > how they justify charging so much to administer an > > > > > exam. That seems > > > > > somewhat ludicrous. I have been eating Maruchan > > > > > Raman noodles for months > > > > > now. That certification sounds good, but may take me > > > > > several years to save > > > > > up for that test! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > > > tclug-list at lists.real-time.com > > > > > > > > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > Jamie, > > > > Just go to brainbench.com... it's free... and it is > > > > one tough nut for testing. But the certificates are real. > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. > > > > http://shopping.yahoo.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > > tclug-list at lists.real-time.com > > > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > tclug-list at lists.real-time.com > > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list at lists.real-time.com > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list at lists.real-time.com > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Eric F Crist System Administrator Ardent-Hacker.net