Vanilla Netrek Server Development Archive
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[VANILLA-L:1473] Re: [VANILLA-L:1470] RE: [VANILLA-L:1466] Re: [VANILLA-L:1457] Re: Discussion



On Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 03:28:04PM -0600, Steve Sheldon wrote:

[Microsoft example deleted]

>  No, the current Netrek license does not allow this, it specifically states
> that you cannot use, modify, distribute, whatever the software for a fee.

You misread.  Or at least misunderstood.  From the copyright notices in the
Vanilla server:

|Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this
|software and its documentation for any purpose and without
|fee is hereby granted, provided that the above copyright
|notice appear in all copies and that both that copyright
|notice and this permission notice appear in supporting
|documentation.  No representations are made about the
|suitability of this software for any purpose.  It is
|provided "as is" without express or implied warranty.

The phrase "any purpose" includes for-profit use.  There is no provision for
derived works being also free; only that they must contain the copyright and
permission notice (that would not affect new modifications).  This means that
Microsoft can use, customize and sell this software without paying a fee
to the authors.  One would be a fool to buy the software, because it is
freely available anyway, but there is nothing that prevents "for-profit"
use or modification to the software.

>  The GPL on the other hand does allow someone to take the software and sell
> it for a fee as long as they give away the source.  A much more real concern
> is not Microsoft but an entity like RedHat.

Microsoft was just a farfetched example.  I probably wouldn't want for-profit
use of any code I contribute.  But this is something I'd yield if we decide
GPL is for us.  Maybe it isn't.  But, if we're going to allow for-profit use
(as the curernt license does), we might as well require that the changes be
also made public.

>  As far as the source code control.  The current license allows people like
> Tedd Hadley to write a number of interesting robots that simulate
> dogfighters and oggers and not release the source code.

This is true and is one good argument against GPL and for some other license.

>  On the one hand that's bad because I'd like to see the source, and I think
> the robots are a cool thing and it'd be ashame if they were lost because the
> compiled binary won't run on the latest OS level.

Exactly my point two paragraphs ago.  :)

>  On the other hand, this allowed Tedd to experiment with AI in his
> Autonomous Netrek Agents, write a paper on it and gain fame and glory.  And
> while at the same time he gave to Netrek something really interesting to
> play with.

The GLGPL could be an alternative.  If libnetrek.a is covered under GLGPL and
daemonII/ntserv/robots are covered under GPL or NSL, it would still allow
situations like Tedd's but still require fundamental changes to stay public.
Just an idea.

>  A lot of the really popular stuff uses a Berkeley style license, such as
> Apache.  Some other popular stuff uses GPL, and then there are other
> licenses.

Yeah.  Or maybe this is all moot and nobody cares.  :P

>  Actually I would be curious what options are available to not use RSA.

We could use the new SSH2 libraries that provide a couple of royalty free
algorithms available both outside and inside the US.  There are others,
but I think SSH2 is one of the most widely used versions that is actually
legal.  (For example, PGPI 5.x libs are/may not be legal inside the US).

> > But the majority of
> > Netrek code does not have a "non-commercial" clause anyway.
> 
>  Both the client and server does.

Not sure about all the clients.  I was looking at the Vanilla server;
presumably the COW client contains the same notices.

>  I don't think it would garner any new interest, and I don't think the
> tradeoff is worth it...

Maybe not.

-- 
Dave Ahn <ahn@vec.wfubmc.edu>        |  "When you were born, you cried and the
                                     |  world rejoiced.  Try to live your life
Virtual Endoscopy Center             |  so that when you die, you will rejoice
Wake Forest Univ. School of Medicine |  and the world will cry."  -1/2 jj^2
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