Re: CF: more updates soon, comments/votes requested

[David Andrew Michael Noelle <dave@Straylight.org>]

> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 23:53:33 -0700
> From: Mark Wedel <mwedel@scruznet.com>
> 
>  Maybe not really related, but I have a feeling the problem is more
> too much verbosity in other areas.  If the number of monsters is
> reduced some, perhaps this won't be as much an issue with important
> messages getting lost in the ouptut.
> 
>  The other solution would be to subdivide the current output window
> into 2 windows, each half the size.  One would hold all the
> generic/fairly unimportant messages (those that are black), while
> the other has the important messages.
> 
>  This could be useful in other regards, as if a another player tells
> you something, you don't want that to get lost in the rest of the
> output, and holding that in another window could be handy.

It seems to me that dealing with important messages differently from
unimportant messages is a client issue.  On the server side, important
messages have to be identified and trivial messages marked
differently.  The server can also help this situation by reducing the
number of repeated messages that are sent.  I suggest that we might do
this by reducing the number of repetitive commands.

Actions like praying, searching, and meditating could be assumed to
continue until a different command is given.  This fits in with
another suggestion to simulate rest by increasing regeneration rate
when idle.


>  I agree with David here.  negative and positive numbers should have
> the same meaning.  Now it could perhaps be argued that we don't need
> a scale ranging from -1000 to 1000 (since I believe all food right
> now comes in increments of 5, you could just as easily go from -200
> to +200).
> 
>  If anything, it could perhaps be suggested that something other
> than 0 is normal state (not hungry, not full - like between meals).
> I guess that is how it really is now, but the problem is really that
> food consumption goes so quickly and you have items like waybread
> which gives like 800 food, which means going from very hungry to
> very full.

Actually, waybread is 500 food, half of maximum.  There are things
that have higher food values, generally things like dragon steaks.
The whole point of such foods is to be as filling as a complete meal,
but much easier to carry.  Even with the slower consumption, I don't
see any need to change the scale of food items.  Since 500 food lasts
longer, it might make sense to increase the value of waybread and
other highly nutritious foods a bit.

On the other hand, there has been discussion of bottles as containers
for liquids and fountains that can be drunk from or used to fill
bottles.  Since water has a positive food value, albeit rather low,
and Crossfire doesn't differentiate between different kinds of
nutrition, that's an infinite source of free food.


>  Since with this change 0 food is no longer death, I would say that
> this logic should be removed.  This will likely be even more an
> issue when commands are added to take at least some realistic amount
> of time - and include eating a full meal into that.  If in the
> middle of combat, loosing 10 ticks as you blindly grab a bite a food
> could be more deadly than any possible penalties from that food.

Good point.  The bit about blindly grabbing food really isn't
necessary if hunger isn't (immediately) lethal.  And this prevents the
problem of accidentally eating poison without any apply command being
issued.


>  Of course, there is the problem that the scrollbar for food, hp,
> and other stuff only assumes positive values, so negative values can
> not be properly represented (this is also an issue with grace, which
> I believe can go negative).  So once again, perhaps having 250
> really represent severe food shortage at that point, and reduce the
> food consumption (which sounds like it has been done) and at the
> same time reduce the maximum food values for some of the food stuffs
> out there may make some sense.

I don't see anything inherently wrong with negative values, but we
should be consistent about it.  Hit points cannot be negative.  If
they go below zero, you're dead.

Spell points cannot currently be negative.  You cannot "owe" magic.
What would negative spell points mean?  Perhaps you've had your magic
drained so severely that it will take that much longer for you to
recharge.  There isn't any way to do that currently, but it could be
done.

Grace can go negative.  You can invoke prayers that you don't have
enough grace for, and your god will generally grant it anyway.  Once
grace gets below zero, you start running into problems with prayers
not being answered.

Food, as currently implemented, cannot be negative.  Negative food
drains hit points to restore food back up to 0, at a 1:1 rate.  If
food is still below zero, you've run out of hit points and died of
starvation.  With the proposed change, zero food is when you start to
get hungry, and -1000 is the lower limit.


I think we should decide on consistent ranges for these stats.  They
should have the same lower limit, either zero or the negative of their
upper limit.  It might make sense for hit points to stop at zero, even
if the others don't, but I'd prefer to keep the other three
consistent.  

-- 
            -Dave Noelle,                 dave@Straylight.org
            -the Villa Straylight,  http://www.straylight.org
Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email  ==  http://www.cauce.com

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