Re: CF: alchemy imbalance?

[Steven Lembark <lembark@wrkhors.com>]

how about: the shopkeeper identifies the items and figures out their 
price based on what they really are?  the annoyance of having to 
identify each item beore selling it is a real pain for low-level char's
who don't have the spells/cash to do so or for non-magic types.  this
would avoid `spoofing' the shopkeeper by selling items you think are
cursed and get the max value for plus-ed items.

sl


>  The current problem is that there is no good method for currently figuring out
> the value of unidentified items.  The program currently makes various
> assumptions based on the value in the archetype and other criteria.
> 
>  One thing I plan to add after 0.96.0 is to add an unidentified_value field for
> objects, so that value can be properly specified.
> 
>  The other problem that does not directly address is values of computer
> generated items (for example, the +1 sword or the wands get created within the
> make treasure functions, so the server once again tries to guess/assume an
> appropriate value).  Some of the more common objects should probably have
> pre-made archetypes (ie, sword_plus1, sword_plus2, etc), so that accurate values
> and even things like special weights or other stuff could be set.
> 
> >
> > Also, I don't understand the logic of identified items.  If a player
> > identifies an item then it is identified for all, but how does a
> > shopkeeper know that a player has identified the items in question?
> 
>  This is a per programming limitation.  If a player identifies something, drops
> it on a map, and another player comes later and finds it, how does he know what
> it is?  However, at the same time, players working together should be able to
> exchange items without a problem.
> 
>  I don't see this as a major problem myself - maybe not the most realistic, but
> you could argue that something like identify reveals runes that were previously
> hidden, and these runes describe the property of the item.
> 
> >
> > Seems to me that the underlying theory is that once a player has
> > identified an item then the game is handling interaction details by
> > skipping the need for the player to say what the item is and how the
> > player knows that.  This makes sense from a game playing point of view,
> > but it could be expanded to be make more sense.  Since being
> > "identified" is really just what player believes item to be as hence
> > how item will be presented to others, then player should be able to
> > identify an item by typing in what the player believes the item to be.
> > Then shopkeepers (and other players) should buy items based upon what
> > the player represents, but then get quite mad upon learning that
> > items weren't as good as player claimed.  So player might be able to
> > pass off something, but have to hurry to leave before shopkeeper finds
> > out and tells city guards.
> 
>  In real life, the later is not likely to be an issue, and certainly open for
> abuse (high level player says items is something really good, sells it, and
> quickly departs, or even if the guards are summoned, not a challenge for the
> player.)
> 
>  Of course the other 'mystery' is how shop keepers have an infinite amount of
> money to buy anything presented to them.
> 
>  I also don't really like the above because it addes further complication to
> selling items (now need to parse the text the player entered and try to
> translate that to a real item - if a player types something and the computer
> interperts it differently, a player could get pretty upset).  It also adds the
> fact that experience players (not necessarily characters) will know the values
> and get more money.  The third is that it would seem to just slow down the
> transaction (in theory, you should be able to barter for merchandise also).
> 
>  If such a system as above was going to be implimented, having a reputation
> field (ala Baldur's Gate) might be more relevant - a characters shop reputation
> may go up if what they say there are selling matches the actual item, and go
> down various amounts if it is a complete lie.
> 
>  However, it could be argued that the shop keeper would always identify items he
> buys before paying out.   This may not be a bad way to go, as it is currently
> identified when it hits the floor.  This would actually be a mixed blessing for
> players - on the one hand, they would not have to identify the misc items before
> selling them to get full price, and on the other, they get nothing for cursed
> items.  But in either case, you don't get a chance to resind the offer - if you
> drop an item, you sold it - if it turns out to be a +4 sword that you thought
> was something else and you really wanted that +4 sword, you now need to re-buy
> it from the merchant (which is likely to cost a lot more in markup than just
> identifying it would have been.)
> 
> >
> > BTW, this reminds that cities or grouped maps (maybe based upon map
> > directory structure) should have a persistent player status so that
> > beating up city guards in one map means all city guards are now hostile
> > and that they are still hostile if the player shows up after the maps
> > has reset.  Likewise, if a player does good things in a city then the
> > people remember and player has CHA bonus in that town.  Such a feature
> > could go a long way to making the world more interesting since the
> > world would no longer be resetting to vanilla every hour or two.  The
> > persistant status could also be used to prevent a player from repeating
> > a quest too often while still leaving the quest for others.
> 
>  Unfortunately, there is no currently method of saving player relations to maps
> in the map itself (so to actually save a map to disk that the guards hate player
> XXXX requires various extensions, and gets even more convoluted if that player
> is not currently in the game)
> 
>  This could be done with invisible objects - various reputation elements.  The
> maps would have to be extended to include what vicinity the map belongs to.
> -
> [you can put yourself on the announcement list only or unsubscribe altogether
> by sending an email stating your wishes to crossfire-request@ifi.uio.no]

-- 
 Steven Lembark                                   2930 W. Palmer St.
                                                 Chicago, IL  60647
 lembark@wrkhors.com                                   800-762-1582
-
[you can put yourself on the announcement list only or unsubscribe altogether
by sending an email stating your wishes to crossfire-request@ifi.uio.no]