Re: Sounds (various ideas - long)

[Matt Cortes <link@alpha.pulsar.net>]

Ugh.  Can you believe I'm replying to this now??  Hehe.  I need more 
time. :>
I'll leave the whole message quoted since its so old to better refresh 
the memory.


On Tue, 26 Dec 1995, Michael B. Martin wrote:

> 
> > > > If you still want to make the whole game .au, perhaps we could do 
> > > > something I've seen done before with .wav files.  The result would 
> > > > actully be better since *most people* don't have wavetable for midi. :>
> > > > I don't know how flexable .au is compared to .wav, but what was done was 
> > > > a small .wav was recorded for each instrument, a instruction file (In 
> > > > this case, midi was used, but any form of instruction for music would 
> > > > work) was used to determine what kind of instrument was played at what 
> > > > note, pitch, volume, whatever.  It would then take each .wav file, and 
> > > > play it with the distort instructions (I don't know about .au, but .wav 
> > > > can be changed on the fly to make the sound sound different in many 
> > > > ways), sounding like a wavetable card was playing midi files in the end. :>
> > > > But like I said, it depends how much can be done with .au, and the sound 
> > > > port should be kept open for the entire song, it would sound poorly if 
> > > > the port was opened, then closed for each .au file.
> 
> What this is describing has existed for many years (originally on the
> Amiga, I believe).  There are music formats (the Pro-Tracker ".mod"
> format being the oldest and best known) which are designed to operate
> in exactly the manner listed above.  A digitized sample is stored for
> each instrument and then played back at the appropriate sampling rate
> to set the pitch, with (typically) several other tricks, like
> volume/pitch slides, looping, etc.  This music format has the
> advantage of being relatively compact while still giving good music
> quality (and as long as the player hardware is sufficient, the sounds

Yes, I have a very large collection of mods (4tracks) and what is called 
.669 (8tracks) files.  They are very good, and using them would be nice 
for the music.  Only problem is each one has their own sound samples.  
What I was describing is a one time collection of a bunch of good 
samples, then a group of music files that are very small that just point 
to which samples to play.  This is a different and what I think better 
approach from .mod files because you only have one set of samples, saving 
space in the long run.  And new samples could always be added when 
required by new music files.  There is a program that was made for 
DOS/windows, I forget what it was called, but it was a MIDI player that 
allowed you to play .MID files through a sound card that had no wavetable 
support and it would have its own samples that it would play according to 
the instructions from the .MID file.  Doing something like that would be 
great, instead of making our own standard, just have a player for the 
game that reads .MID files which anyone could make and the player would 
pass the samples to the sound card.

> are faithfully reproduced, unlike with, for example, MIDI files, whose
> sound depends on what synthesizer you use).  Incidentally, this
> is also known as "wavetable synthesis" on the modern Intel-based PC
> sound cards.

Yep.  I have a Sound Blaster AWE32 which has wavetable, sadly there is 
only SB16 support for Linux, so I need to get a daughterboard that is 
supported under linux to get true wavetable.  Then .MID's without samples 
would be perfect for me. :>
But, like mentioned earlier, most people don't have good sound equipment 
on their computer.  A player with its own samples would be better suited 
so that all will get wavetable sound.
 
> > Ya, I had the same thought.  But my question is do you think its worth 
> > adding?  How big would say 128 (standard # of MIDI) Instrument files be?
> > In my opinion, space, speed, whatever shouldn't matter.  If alot of us 
> > want to give up the space, and the need for speed, then great, lets do 
> > it.  People can always turn off the music part and not download the 
> > wavetable music collection. :>
> > 
> > 
> > -Matt (Who is very anxious to see something like this done for background 
> > sound. :>)
> 
> Well, the best (General MIDI) wavetable sound cards I know of use up
> to 4 MB of sample ROM (2 MB is generally considered inadequate for
> good instrument quality).  But I don't know how many instruments that
> includes (some cards claim over 300 instruments, I think, but I don't
> know how much storage those require).  I have a GUS, so on my system
> the instrument samples take up several MB (samples are stored on disk
> instead and loaded on demand into sound card RAM).

Well, I don't consider that bad at all.  4-8megs for great sound isn't much 
to give up.  And if we use .MID files, (cool, idea comming on..) people 
can decide if they need the sample files.  Someone with a wavetable card, 
or someone who decides they don't want to use up the same can have just 
the .MID files.  The player would then pass the .MID file to the sound 
card and just let it handle how to play the .MID when it discovers the 
samples haven't been included.  Those that have the space and want 
wavetable sound but don't have wavetable can nab the samples along with 
the player.  There is already a "playmidi" player but that just passes the 
midi directly too the sound card and couldn't be used for sample sound.  
I do know the author of playmidi and I'm sure he might be able to provide 
input on this if its unsure how to go about using midi files.

In the end, I think midi files with the option of having sample files is 
the best way to go about having music in crossfire.


-Matt