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Re: (ASCEND) Re: pipe 130 for remote pop

        Todd Romero said:

>From a heck of alot of expirience with p130's and lots of other 
>alternatives, I would NOT recomend a P130 in a 'core' router situation. It 
>is just way too unstable, and unreliable. 

        If this is the case, to what application is a P130 suited?

        How is a customer site less demanding in the area of reliability
        than a "core" site?  

        I agree that a P130 is more a customer premise device than 
        a "core infrastructure" device, but this is because it has 
        only a single AUI and single CSU/DSU port.  I know of no
        reason why reliability can be lower, or why anyone should
        tolerate lower reliability.

        If there are problems with reliability, are there any outstanding
        bug reports?  Are these complaints about hardware or software?

>For example, the biggest single problem is the fact that when the T1 
>goes down and back up. Often, the router will need to be reset or even 
>powercycled!!!! Not very reliable for a remote pop situation! 

        Once again, if this is the case, how can one put a P130
        at a customer site?  Customer sites are, by definition, remote.

        Asking the customer to power-cycle a P130 is impossible, since
        this sort of gear is installed in wiring closets and other
        out-of-the-way, locked places to keep people from messing about
        with them.

>Pipelines are nice cheap lightweight routers that can be an alternative, 
>for small businesses customers, etc. But not for a network infrastructure. 

        Can anyone else verify what is being said here?  We view "our
        infrastructure" as ending at the users keyboard, so we take
        reliability seriously.  If P130s are not a reliable choice for
        customers on fractional T-1 frame relay links, how can we fix
        this before we suffer the wrath of customers?

        We are in the midst of deploying a total of 30 P130s, which we
        will be bringing online by month's end.  We have installed the
        first 10, but still await the telco's appearance with frame
        relay drops.  If these cute little things are NOT going to be
        reliable, then I might as well put in reliable gear before we
        start routing traffic through them, and betting our reputation
        on them.  Any opinions?  We have been more "conservative" in the
        past, and hence have not used Ascend P130s ever before.

        How about a simple vote:

                a)  My P130s have been happy for x months,
                    and so have I.

                b)  My P130s are the worst thing to happen
                    to me since NSFnet was unplugged.

                c)  Stay at Release "x", and you will be happy,
                    but do not upgrade too quickly, since this
                    is an Ascend product, and subject to the
                    usual disclaimers in cases of new revisions.

        All ballots will be counted and reported in this very list,
        so vote early, and vote often!  Void where prohibited.

        As an aside, Cisco recently started painting their 25xx series
        of routers black (just like P130s!).  Better tell your tech
        support folks to remember this the next time they ask the 
        customer to check out the lights on the "Black Box!"

"Next week, we are playing the Mozart..."  "Are you sure we can Handel it?"

james fischer                                jfischer@supercollider.com

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