From o1bigtenor at gmail.com Wed Dec 4 19:51:08 2019 From: o1bigtenor at gmail.com (o1bigtenor) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 19:51:08 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] replacement graphic card problems Message-ID: Greetings I had a system built in Jan 2012 which included an Asus P9X79 mobo and 3 Geforce 570 video cards where I've been running a variant of Debian, usually testing, ever since. I ran using 2 of those cards utilizing first fully proprietary drivers and then a couple years ago I shifted to the debian version of the same. This last spring 2 of the 3 cards failed and nvidia retired support for the cards in their current drivers so I went to using nouveau for my graphic card driver. I purchased a Radeon RX570 graphics card and a week ago swapped out Nvidia 570 card. I was unable to even get the system to post on first try (I had all 4 monitors plugged into the gpu). Went back to the Nvidia card and the system is working just fine. Tried the Radeon RX570 again this time only plugging in 1 monitor - - - - the gpu light do come on but I can't tell if much further is happening. I called my purchase point and they requested I send it back to them. They are now telling me that the card is working well on their M$ test machine. I'm not sure what to do or what I did wrong in my install attempt. Any ideas? TIA From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Thu Dec 5 10:12:13 2019 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 10:12:13 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Windows 10 laptop time is off Message-ID: Shalom, TClug, After a reboot, my laptop's time is slow by 5 or 6 minutes. The laptop is over a year old and previously the time has been correct. I tried to figure out how to manually adjust the time, but wasn't able. I restarted it again to see if that fixed it, but it didn't. I use the laptop to read about Linux and to work on cross platform code. Any ideas on how to fix this? Tia Brian Ebenezer Enterprise - Enjoying programming again. https://github.com/Ebenezer-group/onwards -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Thu Dec 5 10:28:03 2019 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 10:28:03 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Windows 10 laptop time is off In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 10:12 AM Brian Wood wrote: > Shalom, TClug, > > After a reboot, my laptop's time is slow by 5 or 6 minutes. > The laptop is over a year old and previously the time has > been correct. I tried to figure out how to manually adjust > the time, but wasn't able. I restarted it again to see if that > fixed it, but it didn't. I use the laptop to read about Linux > and to work on cross platform code. Any ideas on how to > fix this? Tia > > > I seem to have fixed it by turning on the "Windows Time" service. I'm not sure why it needed to be started, though. > Brian > Ebenezer Enterprise - Enjoying programming again. > https://github.com/Ebenezer-group/onwards > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rhayman at pureice.com Thu Dec 5 14:40:20 2019 From: rhayman at pureice.com (r hayman) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:40:20 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] replacement graphic card problems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1fb7d39d3f235ce6df9bbbdd7e37ea231abaf887.camel@pureice.com> On Wed, 2019-12-04 at 19:51 -0600, o1bigtenor wrote: > Greetings > > I had a system built in Jan 2012 which included an Asus P9X79 mobo and > 3 Geforce 570 video cards where I've been running a variant of Debian, > usually testing, ever since. I ran using 2 of those cards utilizing > first fully proprietary drivers and then a couple years ago I shifted > to the debian version of the same. This last spring 2 of the 3 cards > failed and nvidia retired support for the cards in their current > drivers so I went to using nouveau for my graphic card driver. > I purchased a Radeon RX570 graphics card and a week ago swapped out > Nvidia 570 card. I was unable to even get the system to post on first > try (I had all 4 monitors plugged into the gpu). Went back to the > Nvidia card and the system is working just fine. Tried the Radeon > RX570 again this time only plugging in 1 monitor - - - - the gpu light > do come on but I can't tell if much further is happening. I called my > purchase point and they requested I send it back to them. They are now > telling me that the card is working well on their M$ test machine. > > I'm not sure what to do or what I did wrong in my install attempt. > > Any ideas? > > TIA > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > Switching from Nvidia to Radeon, or vice versa, means you need to switch your video drivers and generally a pain in the butt because of the need to completely remove or blacklist some/all of the previous driver files. For some reason I have it in my head that nouveau will not work with Radeon, but I could be wrong here. Here's what I'm currently running (Ubuntu 18.04, a Debian variant) and driving a 40" 3840x2160 and a 24" 1920x1200 display both @ 60Hz, and I switched from an Nvidia card when I got the 4K UHD display. # lspci -nn | grep -E 'VGA|Display' 02:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Hawaii PRO [Radeon R9 290/390] [1002:67b1] (rev 80) # lshw -c video *-display description: VGA compatible controller product: Hawaii PRO [Radeon R9 290/390] vendor: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] physical id: 0 bus info: pci at 0000:02:00.0 version: 80 width: 64 bits clock: 33MHz capabilities: pm pciexpress msi vga_controller bus_master cap_list rom configuration: driver=radeon latency=0 resources: irq:30 memory:d0000000-dfffffff memory:cf800000- cfffffff ioport:a000(size=256) memory:fba80000-fbabffff memory:c0000- dffff # modinfo -F filename `lshw -c video | awk '/configuration: driver/{print $2}' | cut -d= -f2` /lib/modules/4.15.0-72-generic/kernel/drivers/gpu/drm/radeon/radeon.ko See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RadeonDriver -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Thu Dec 5 15:46:29 2019 From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:46:29 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Windows 10 laptop time is off In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9D84E5C6-53BE-400F-8327-7E6C3B9DCDCD@cwis.biz> Someone in a Windows User Group probably can answer that for you. But this is not a Windows User Group. > On Dec 5, 2019, at 10:28 AM, Brian Wood wrote: > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 10:12 AM Brian Wood > wrote: > Shalom, TClug, > > After a reboot, my laptop's time is slow by 5 or 6 minutes. > The laptop is over a year old and previously the time has > been correct. I tried to figure out how to manually adjust > the time, but wasn't able. I restarted it again to see if that > fixed it, but it didn't. I use the laptop to read about Linux > and to work on cross platform code. Any ideas on how to > fix this? Tia > > > > I seem to have fixed it by turning on the "Windows Time" > service. I'm not sure why it needed to be started, though. > > Brian > Ebenezer Enterprise - Enjoying programming again. > https://github.com/Ebenezer-group/onwards > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eng at pinenet.com Fri Dec 6 10:46:27 2019 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 10:46:27 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Old man's confusion. Message-ID: <3dc03d84-5053-3e6d-f2a7-b0cd0822b364@pinenet.com> I created a Firefox web browser account out of curiosity. Then I tried to figure out what "sync"ing on multiple devices was, and "browsing history." Even had to figure out how to sign out from the Firefox account. Anybody else wonder if web browsing has gotten too complicated?? Also, playing with old motherboards is getting spooky. My old Intel desktop boards lost their downloadable bios and tech documents Nov. 22 when Intel did as promised and ended the download service. Just as I was learning and liking the bootable CDROM bios ISOs. How will I ever figure out the new UEFI junk?? I saw this first on the KDE desktop with different "Activities" desktops running concurrently. Nobody can learn without some mental focus. So it's a nice computer trick, but worthless as an information technology. When simple gets complex I wonder who benefits: the user or the vendor?? A great friend now 89 exclusively works on ancient cars, currently a 1929 Model A Ford. I'm wondering if there are any new hardware platforms for Linux, maybe a little bigger than Raspberry Pi, that can offer hope to the future?? My hands hold a chain saw pretty good, and I can't use those pocket computing devices. From iznogoud at nobelware.com Fri Dec 6 16:02:34 2019 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 22:02:34 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Old man's confusion. In-Reply-To: <3dc03d84-5053-3e6d-f2a7-b0cd0822b364@pinenet.com> References: <3dc03d84-5053-3e6d-f2a7-b0cd0822b364@pinenet.com> Message-ID: <20191206220234.GA31032@nobelware.com> I do not have much info to offer on the browsing thing. I would guess that one would want their browser history to be available to them rather than to some --albeit benevolent-- organization. There are pieces of hardware that run Linux and are gaining popularity. There is this $200 ARM-based laptop. There are some "open" hardware platforms that are under development. There is hardware that is "vetted" to not have any backdoors, primarily in the BIOS, etc. I wish I had links to share, but somebbody here will point them out, I am sure. From eng at pinenet.com Fri Dec 6 17:31:53 2019 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 17:31:53 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Old man's confusion. In-Reply-To: <20191206220234.GA31032@nobelware.com> References: <3dc03d84-5053-3e6d-f2a7-b0cd0822b364@pinenet.com> <20191206220234.GA31032@nobelware.com> Message-ID: <55d9ff24-a803-c185-aacf-2ceed6849a26@pinenet.com> As always, thanks for the shared wisdom. Firefox probably saves my browsing history whether I create a "sync"ed device account or not. At least now I know they do. Firefox must have a huge profile on me: nothing but foxnews.com. I won't expect to fool our friendly politicians these days. I never joined facebook or twitter either. But I did just refresh my opensuse forums account. On first glimpse, all the hardware questions are about nitpicking obscurities, not foundation standards. Somebody could make a great home PC using Linux and modern silicon chips. Probably what the hardware industry is afraid of. Iznogoud wrote: > I do not have much info to offer on the browsing thing. I would guess that > one would want their browser history to be available to them rather than to > some --albeit benevolent-- organization. > > There are pieces of hardware that run Linux and are gaining popularity. There > is this $200 ARM-based laptop. There are some "open" hardware platforms that > are under development. There is hardware that is "vetted" to not have any > backdoors, primarily in the BIOS, etc. I wish I had links to share, but > somebbody here will point them out, I am sure. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From eng at pinenet.com Fri Dec 6 18:08:07 2019 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 18:08:07 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Old man's confusion. In-Reply-To: <20191206220234.GA31032@nobelware.com> References: <3dc03d84-5053-3e6d-f2a7-b0cd0822b364@pinenet.com> <20191206220234.GA31032@nobelware.com> Message-ID: BTW, while late night sneak reading from my son-in-law's computer library I read how ARM cpus were developed by a company called VLSI (very large scale integration). I believe they were once a Minnesota company in the days of Control Data and the super computer company ETA. It would be really nice to see some new hardware technology emerge. Iznogoud wrote: > I do not have much info to offer on the browsing thing. I would guess that > one would want their browser history to be available to them rather than to > some --albeit benevolent-- organization. > > There are pieces of hardware that run Linux and are gaining popularity. There > is this $200 ARM-based laptop. There are some "open" hardware platforms that > are under development. There is hardware that is "vetted" to not have any > backdoors, primarily in the BIOS, etc. I wish I had links to share, but > somebbody here will point them out, I am sure. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From eng at pinenet.com Mon Dec 9 19:33:44 2019 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 19:33:44 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Old man's confusion solved. Message-ID: <625c90f1-9ca4-e85e-40bb-7e2f89276389@pinenet.com> According to the Raspberry Pi web site, the new Pi 4 is exactly intended as a linux desktop. Low cost, low power, low resource use, powerful network and display capabilities make it a benchmark for billions of people. Opensuse Tumbleweed distro does have ARM ports for previous Pi boards (ARM version 6 and 7) but doesn't seem to yet cover the Pi 4 version 8 ARM. I don't know anything about this stuff anymore, and would play with it like my first Pi if younger. I'm just happy the razzle dazzle computer extremists haven't destroyed the market development for small, simple, efficient, reliable communications and IT hardware. From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Mon Dec 9 20:21:40 2019 From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 20:21:40 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Distros for rPi4 (was Old man's confusion solved) In-Reply-To: <625c90f1-9ca4-e85e-40bb-7e2f89276389@pinenet.com> References: <625c90f1-9ca4-e85e-40bb-7e2f89276389@pinenet.com> Message-ID: <5A14957F-060F-465D-A8C5-E3098972094B@cwis.biz> Have you tried just using the Raspbian that is written for it? Ubuntu Mate is updated for it now, too. The thing is the chipset that is in the new ARMs is nowhere near the same as the previous versions, or so I’ve read, and the video drivers weren’t compatible either, so they all had to be rewritten. Tumbleweed might get updated for it sometime soon. Give those other two distros a shot. I don’t think you’ll be disappointed. — Ryan > On Dec 9, 2019, at 7:33 PM, Rick Engebretson wrote: > > According to the Raspberry Pi web site, the new Pi 4 is exactly intended as a linux desktop. Low cost, low power, low resource use, powerful network and display capabilities make it a benchmark for billions of people. > > Opensuse Tumbleweed distro does have ARM ports for previous Pi boards (ARM version 6 and 7) but doesn't seem to yet cover the Pi 4 version 8 ARM. > > I don't know anything about this stuff anymore, and would play with it like my first Pi if younger. I'm just happy the razzle dazzle computer extremists haven't destroyed the market development for small, simple, efficient, reliable communications and IT hardware. > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From iznogoud at nobelware.com Mon Dec 9 21:27:35 2019 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 03:27:35 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Distros for rPi4 (was Old man's confusion solved) In-Reply-To: <5A14957F-060F-465D-A8C5-E3098972094B@cwis.biz> References: <625c90f1-9ca4-e85e-40bb-7e2f89276389@pinenet.com> <5A14957F-060F-465D-A8C5-E3098972094B@cwis.biz> Message-ID: <20191210032735.GA2071@nobelware.com> I have an RPi 2B+ (I think) that happily runs a Rasbian Whizzy. As an Ubuntu hater, I had to learn to like it, and it is fine. One very interesting thing is that Wolfram Research loaded Mathematica (the software package) on this OS, and so the OS's users can freely use this software without having to get a license for it. It was not too slow for rendering graphics, etc, in spite of the slow processor of the Pi. Great stuff. (Stephen Wolfram is a good giuy, and his books are great.) From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Mon Dec 9 21:44:35 2019 From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 21:44:35 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Distros for rPi4 (was Old man's confusion solved) In-Reply-To: <20191210032735.GA2071@nobelware.com> References: <625c90f1-9ca4-e85e-40bb-7e2f89276389@pinenet.com> <5A14957F-060F-465D-A8C5-E3098972094B@cwis.biz> <20191210032735.GA2071@nobelware.com> Message-ID: <25DC9CF0-9C68-460C-9B1D-9EC70B4AD2EF@cwis.biz> I haven’t tried the new Mate yet as the latest Raspbian runs Chromium well enough that I don’t need to change things for my RiseVision test units. I now own 5 Pi4’s, 5 or 6 Pi 3B+’s and a couple of Zeros w/o headers or wifi for prototyping. So far I’m happy with my investment but other tasks have taken priority over those projects. :-\ > On Dec 9, 2019, at 9:27 PM, Iznogoud wrote: > > I have an RPi 2B+ (I think) that happily runs a Rasbian Whizzy. As an Ubuntu > hater, I had to learn to like it, and it is fine. One very interesting thing > is that Wolfram Research loaded Mathematica (the software package) on this OS, > and so the OS's users can freely use this software without having to get a > license for it. It was not too slow for rendering graphics, etc, in spite of > the slow processor of the Pi. Great stuff. > > (Stephen Wolfram is a good giuy, and his books are great.) > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From eng at pinenet.com Tue Dec 10 03:30:10 2019 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 03:30:10 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Distros for rPi4 (was Old man's confusion solved) In-Reply-To: <25DC9CF0-9C68-460C-9B1D-9EC70B4AD2EF@cwis.biz> References: <625c90f1-9ca4-e85e-40bb-7e2f89276389@pinenet.com> <5A14957F-060F-465D-A8C5-E3098972094B@cwis.biz> <20191210032735.GA2071@nobelware.com> <25DC9CF0-9C68-460C-9B1D-9EC70B4AD2EF@cwis.biz> Message-ID: Delightful. Thanks. When my son-in-law bought me a Pi years ago I was impressed with the Raspian OS. But the wire to our HDMI TV, and wire to our network were a stretch. He had to go to the store to buy a USB keyboard. Now I learn that my beautiful TV is only 2K video and the Pi 4 generates 4K video. So I am totally ignorant, yet totally hopeful. Ryan Coleman wrote: > I haven’t tried the new Mate yet as the latest Raspbian runs Chromium well enough that I don’t need to change things for my RiseVision test units. I now own 5 Pi4’s, 5 or 6 Pi 3B+’s and a couple of Zeros w/o headers or wifi for prototyping. > > So far I’m happy with my investment but other tasks have taken priority over those projects. :-\ > >> On Dec 9, 2019, at 9:27 PM, Iznogoud wrote: >> >> I have an RPi 2B+ (I think) that happily runs a Rasbian Whizzy. As an Ubuntu >> hater, I had to learn to like it, and it is fine. One very interesting thing >> is that Wolfram Research loaded Mathematica (the software package) on this OS, >> and so the OS's users can freely use this software without having to get a >> license for it. It was not too slow for rendering graphics, etc, in spite of >> the slow processor of the Pi. Great stuff. >> >> (Stephen Wolfram is a good giuy, and his books are great.) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From iznogoud at nobelware.com Tue Dec 10 12:09:20 2019 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:09:20 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Distros for rPi4 (was Old man's confusion solved) In-Reply-To: References: <625c90f1-9ca4-e85e-40bb-7e2f89276389@pinenet.com> <5A14957F-060F-465D-A8C5-E3098972094B@cwis.biz> <20191210032735.GA2071@nobelware.com> <25DC9CF0-9C68-460C-9B1D-9EC70B4AD2EF@cwis.biz> Message-ID: <20191210180920.GA11767@nobelware.com> On the subject of RPi and distros/OSs, what media do people use to run their OS for hte RPi? Is it cards? has anyone attached regular drives? And what is the favourite way of straight-up tweaking the RPi's OS before deploying it? And, lst one, has anyone powered the RPi and a harddrive from a common power supply/battery? I am interested in having a robust filesystem, as in, having proper shutdown procedure when power on the RPi's primary source is running low (say due to a power outage of the UPS). I would like to power the RPi and a regular SSD or HDD from a single source. From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Tue Dec 10 15:51:39 2019 From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 15:51:39 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Distros for rPi4 (was Old man's confusion solved) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <515D113A-F382-45E3-B229-616F46046D0C@cwis.biz> No, it doesn’t only do 4K - sounds like it was configured for one screen and fixed in that config. Mine work on 720, 1080 and 4K without issue. > On Dec 10, 2019, at 03:31, Rick Engebretson wrote: > > Delightful. Thanks. > > When my son-in-law bought me a Pi years ago I was impressed with the Raspian OS. But the wire to our HDMI TV, and wire to our network were a stretch. He had to go to the store to buy a USB keyboard. Now I learn that my beautiful TV is only 2K video and the Pi 4 generates 4K video. So I am totally ignorant, yet totally hopeful. > > > > > Ryan Coleman wrote: >> I haven’t tried the new Mate yet as the latest Raspbian runs Chromium well enough that I don’t need to change things for my RiseVision test units. I now own 5 Pi4’s, 5 or 6 Pi 3B+’s and a couple of Zeros w/o headers or wifi for prototyping. >> >> So far I’m happy with my investment but other tasks have taken priority over those projects. :-\ >> >>>> On Dec 9, 2019, at 9:27 PM, Iznogoud wrote: >>> >>> I have an RPi 2B+ (I think) that happily runs a Rasbian Whizzy. As an Ubuntu >>> hater, I had to learn to like it, and it is fine. One very interesting thing >>> is that Wolfram Research loaded Mathematica (the software package) on this OS, >>> and so the OS's users can freely use this software without having to get a >>> license for it. It was not too slow for rendering graphics, etc, in spite of >>> the slow processor of the Pi. Great stuff. >>> >>> (Stephen Wolfram is a good giuy, and his books are great.) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From eng at pinenet.com Tue Dec 10 17:26:19 2019 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 17:26:19 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Distros for rPi4 (was Old man's confusion solved) In-Reply-To: <515D113A-F382-45E3-B229-616F46046D0C@cwis.biz> References: <515D113A-F382-45E3-B229-616F46046D0C@cwis.biz> Message-ID: <00172556-128e-cc95-d764-681eafb9c07d@pinenet.com> Sorry, I must have said it badly. When reading the Pi 4 specs I didn't know what 4K (or 2K) video meant so I looked it up on Wikipedia and learned how obsolete my TV is. In fact, when my daughter and husband bought the CanaKit Pi model B I didn't know what HDMI was. In fact my daughter bought us the TV a few years earlier. All I know is Unix is too good to abandon. And my conservative philosophy of modesty is reinforced by new homes being built out here with 1/4 mile long driveways: snow happens bigshots! Young network experts have a busy future. Best regards. Ryan Coleman wrote: > No, it doesn’t only do 4K - sounds like it was configured for one screen and fixed in that config. Mine work on 720, 1080 and 4K without issue. > >> On Dec 10, 2019, at 03:31, Rick Engebretson wrote: >> >> Delightful. Thanks. >> >> When my son-in-law bought me a Pi years ago I was impressed with the Raspian OS. But the wire to our HDMI TV, and wire to our network were a stretch. He had to go to the store to buy a USB keyboard. Now I learn that my beautiful TV is only 2K video and the Pi 4 generates 4K video. So I am totally ignorant, yet totally hopeful. >> >> >> >> >> Ryan Coleman wrote: >>> I haven’t tried the new Mate yet as the latest Raspbian runs Chromium well enough that I don’t need to change things for my RiseVision test units. I now own 5 Pi4’s, 5 or 6 Pi 3B+’s and a couple of Zeros w/o headers or wifi for prototyping. >>> >>> So far I’m happy with my investment but other tasks have taken priority over those projects. :-\ >>> >>>>> On Dec 9, 2019, at 9:27 PM, Iznogoud wrote: >>>> >>>> I have an RPi 2B+ (I think) that happily runs a Rasbian Whizzy. As an Ubuntu >>>> hater, I had to learn to like it, and it is fine. One very interesting thing >>>> is that Wolfram Research loaded Mathematica (the software package) on this OS, >>>> and so the OS's users can freely use this software without having to get a >>>> license for it. It was not too slow for rendering graphics, etc, in spite of >>>> the slow processor of the Pi. Great stuff. >>>> >>>> (Stephen Wolfram is a good giuy, and his books are great.) >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Tue Dec 10 17:31:42 2019 From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 17:31:42 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Distros for rPi4 (was Old man's confusion solved) In-Reply-To: <20191210180920.GA11767@nobelware.com> References: <625c90f1-9ca4-e85e-40bb-7e2f89276389@pinenet.com> <5A14957F-060F-465D-A8C5-E3098972094B@cwis.biz> <20191210032735.GA2071@nobelware.com> <25DC9CF0-9C68-460C-9B1D-9EC70B4AD2EF@cwis.biz> <20191210180920.GA11767@nobelware.com> Message-ID: <7FB32AFD-2834-4CE1-B571-1749068A8DD1@cwis.biz> I use no slower than Class 10 mSDHC cards in mine. Anything slower takes for-ev-er to image. There’s no way to add a SATA drive to the Pi without doing it over USB so there’s no benefit to that other than capacity to doing it that way - you’re probably better set using it as secondary storage and not running the OS from it. That’s the plan with my projects. I’ve run all my stuff off a massive 12VDC LGM battery for days at a time without issue and, to be fair, shutting down improperly is something the Pi just doesn’t have to worry that much about. Yes files get left open sometimes but I’ve never had one fail because of a file issue… entire cards have failed but never a boot failure caused by locked files. Tweaking can be done directly on the memory card, if you feel you have to, but I use SSH connections for my non-Zeroes to do my configurations if I don’t have a KVM handy. > On Dec 10, 2019, at 12:09 PM, Iznogoud wrote: > > On the subject of RPi and distros/OSs, what media do people use to run their > OS for hte RPi? Is it cards? has anyone attached regular drives? And what is > the favourite way of straight-up tweaking the RPi's OS before deploying it? > And, lst one, has anyone powered the RPi and a harddrive from a common power > supply/battery? > > I am interested in having a robust filesystem, as in, having proper shutdown > procedure when power on the RPi's primary source is running low (say due to > a power outage of the UPS). I would like to power the RPi and a regular SSD > or HDD from a single source. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From eng at pinenet.com Tue Dec 10 17:33:00 2019 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 17:33:00 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Distros for rPi4 (was Old man's confusion solved) In-Reply-To: <20191210180920.GA11767@nobelware.com> References: <625c90f1-9ca4-e85e-40bb-7e2f89276389@pinenet.com> <5A14957F-060F-465D-A8C5-E3098972094B@cwis.biz> <20191210032735.GA2071@nobelware.com> <25DC9CF0-9C68-460C-9B1D-9EC70B4AD2EF@cwis.biz> <20191210180920.GA11767@nobelware.com> Message-ID: <6f3e2c2b-6d09-01b1-b303-3ac79b30bc12@pinenet.com> As always, very wise comments on TCLUG. You are among the few who can shape a billion new users eager to jump the "digital divide." Iznogoud wrote: > On the subject of RPi and distros/OSs, what media do people use to run their > OS for hte RPi? Is it cards? has anyone attached regular drives? And what is > the favourite way of straight-up tweaking the RPi's OS before deploying it? > And, lst one, has anyone powered the RPi and a harddrive from a common power > supply/battery? > > I am interested in having a robust filesystem, as in, having proper shutdown > procedure when power on the RPi's primary source is running low (say due to > a power outage of the UPS). I would like to power the RPi and a regular SSD > or HDD from a single source. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From iznogoud at nobelware.com Wed Dec 11 14:36:22 2019 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:36:22 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Distros for rPi4 (was Old man's confusion solved) In-Reply-To: <7FB32AFD-2834-4CE1-B571-1749068A8DD1@cwis.biz> References: <625c90f1-9ca4-e85e-40bb-7e2f89276389@pinenet.com> <5A14957F-060F-465D-A8C5-E3098972094B@cwis.biz> <20191210032735.GA2071@nobelware.com> <25DC9CF0-9C68-460C-9B1D-9EC70B4AD2EF@cwis.biz> <20191210180920.GA11767@nobelware.com> <7FB32AFD-2834-4CE1-B571-1749068A8DD1@cwis.biz> Message-ID: <20191211203622.GA19965@nobelware.com> > > I use no slower than Class 10 mSDHC cards in mine. Anything slower takes for-ev-er to image. > Right-on. I use my laptop for its card-reader/writer. Any ideas on one that I should attach to desktops? > There’s no way to add a SATA drive to the Pi without doing it over USB so there’s no benefit to that other than capacity to doing it that way - you’re probably better set using it as secondary storage and not running the OS from it. That’s the plan with my projects. > Great advise. And this is also my conclusion. I want to OS to boot and rebuild the RDWR partitions/mount-points so that I never corrupt the system itself, which should run from RDONLY mount-points. But where the data lives will be the USB-drive. That is why I need a robust shutdown of the FS. > I’ve run all my stuff off a massive 12VDC LGM battery for days at a time without issue and, to be fair, shutting down improperly is something the Pi just doesn’t have to worry that much about. Yes files get left open sometimes but I’ve never had one fail because of a file issue… entire cards have failed but never a boot failure caused by locked files. > I had not looked closely on the booting sequence of the RPi to really know. But I think you are right, that it has most of the OS in RDONLY mounts. But data can be corrupt if collecting data is what one is doing. Good pointer on the battery too. What I would like is to have a circuit to monitor battery remaining capacity and attach it to the RPi itself. Info on something like that? > Tweaking can be done directly on the memory card, if you feel you have to, but I use SSH connections for my non-Zeroes to do my configurations if I don’t have a KVM handy. > I have done both. Remounting the partitions RW from a running system works fine. What would be best is if I had a virtualization/emulation of the RPi so that I can do all my booting testing on a VM. Ideas on that? Thanks so much. This is great info! From n0nas at amsat.org Thu Dec 12 14:42:39 2019 From: n0nas at amsat.org (Doug Reed) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 14:42:39 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 180, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There are multiple UPS HAT boards available for the Raspberry Pi. Most have a lithium battery and can run the board for 10 minutes or more, enough time to shut down the RasPi. One key would be to make sure the UPS board you choose can supply more than enough current for the max load of the RasPi board you use. The new RasPi 4B draws more current than the previous models. Doug. On 12/12/19, tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org wrote: > Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Distros for rPi4 (was Old man's confusion solved) (Iznogoud) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:36:22 +0000 > From: Iznogoud > To: Ryan Coleman > Cc: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Distros for rPi4 (was Old man's confusion > solved) > Message-ID: <20191211203622.GA19965 at nobelware.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > >> >> I use no slower than Class 10 mSDHC cards in mine. Anything slower takes >> for-ev-er to image. >> > > Right-on. I use my laptop for its card-reader/writer. Any ideas on one that > I > should attach to desktops? > > >> There’s no way to add a SATA drive to the Pi without doing it over USB so >> there’s no benefit to that other than capacity to doing it that way - >> you’re probably better set using it as secondary storage and not running >> the OS from it. That’s the plan with my projects. >> > > Great advise. And this is also my conclusion. I want to OS to boot and > rebuild > the RDWR partitions/mount-points so that I never corrupt the system itself, > which should run from RDONLY mount-points. > > But where the data lives will be the USB-drive. That is why I need a robust > shutdown of the FS. > > >> I’ve run all my stuff off a massive 12VDC LGM battery for days at a time >> without issue and, to be fair, shutting down improperly is something the >> Pi just doesn’t have to worry that much about. Yes files get left open >> sometimes but I’ve never had one fail because of a file issue… entire >> cards have failed but never a boot failure caused by locked files. >> > > I had not looked closely on the booting sequence of the RPi to really know. > But I think you are right, that it has most of the OS in RDONLY mounts. But > data can be corrupt if collecting data is what one is doing. > > Good pointer on the battery too. What I would like is to have a circuit to > monitor battery remaining capacity and attach it to the RPi itself. Info on > something like that? > > >> Tweaking can be done directly on the memory card, if you feel you have to, >> but I use SSH connections for my non-Zeroes to do my configurations if I >> don’t have a KVM handy. >> > > I have done both. Remounting the partitions RW from a running system works > fine. What would be best is if I had a virtualization/emulation of the RPi > so that I can do all my booting testing on a VM. Ideas on that? > > Thanks so much. This is great info! > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > ------------------------------ > > End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 180, Issue 6 > ****************************************** > -- I vote the Second Amendment FIRST! The things they do not tell you are usually the clue to solving the problem.