From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Thu Aug 2 14:28:28 2018 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 14:28:28 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Automount with TrueOS stable Message-ID: Shalom I've installed TrueOS stable 18.06 and am not finding usb drives under /.autofs like in the past. Do you have any suggestions on that? Thanks. Brian Ebenezer Enterprises https://github.com/Ebenezer-group/onwards -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kurtis at riseup.net Thu Aug 2 15:03:00 2018 From: kurtis at riseup.net (kurtis) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2018 20:03:00 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Free Software enthusiast meetup tonight in MPLS Message-ID: Hello TCLUG, Some friends and I started a free software enthusiast group called the Free Computing Club. We are interested in a number of different things, including mesh networking, liberating boot firmware on computers with libreboot/coreboot, running personal websites, federated communication platforms (mastodon, matrix, XMPP, FedWiki, idno/Known), programming, Tor, encryption, etc. We believe that free software is needed for a free society. I'm sorry that I didn't provide notice here earlier, but we are meeting tonight at 6pm at Cafetto in Minneapolis. You should be able to easily recognize us if you show up. Please let me know if you have any questions and I hope to see you there! Cordially, kurtis From clark.andreasen at gmail.com Thu Aug 2 17:53:43 2018 From: clark.andreasen at gmail.com (Clark Andreasen) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 17:53:43 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Free Software enthusiast meetup tonight in MPLS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Replying to the list beause others may have a similar situation to me. I can't make tonight but I'd love to come next time, perhaps, do you have a newsletter or some way to hear about the next meeting? Your topics sound right up my alley! Thanks, Clark On Thu, Aug 2, 2018, 15:10 kurtis wrote: > Hello TCLUG, > > Some friends and I started a free software enthusiast group called the > Free Computing Club. We are interested in a number of different things, > including mesh networking, liberating boot firmware on computers with > libreboot/coreboot, running personal websites, federated communication > platforms (mastodon, matrix, XMPP, FedWiki, idno/Known), programming, > Tor, encryption, etc. We believe that free software is needed for a free > society. > > I'm sorry that I didn't provide notice here earlier, but we are meeting > tonight at 6pm at Cafetto in Minneapolis. You should be able to easily > recognize us if you show up. Please let me know if you have any > questions and I hope to see you there! > > Cordially, > kurtis > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From iznogoud at nobelware.com Fri Aug 3 10:24:03 2018 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 15:24:03 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Free Software enthusiast meetup tonight in MPLS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20180803152403.GA19343@nobelware.com> I would like to hear more about riseup.net. This is not a Linux related topic, so I will see if I can make a meetup and chat with you. Cafetto seems like the appropriate place for this crowd; I have not been there in a couple of years. From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Sun Aug 5 15:27:48 2018 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2018 15:27:48 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Automount with TrueOS stable In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 2:28 PM, Brian Wood wrote: > Shalom > > I've installed TrueOS stable 18.06 and am not finding > usb drives under /.autofs like in the past. Do you have > any suggestions on that? Thanks. > > > The answer from asomers here: https://github.com/trueos/trueos-core/issues/1493 was helpful. Brian Ebenezer Enterprises https://github.com/Ebenezer-group/onwards -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From iznogoud at nobelware.com Sun Aug 5 17:13:57 2018 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2018 22:13:57 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Automount with TrueOS stable In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: <20180805221357.GA23447@nobelware.com> > > > > I've installed TrueOS stable 18.06 and am not finding > > usb drives under /.autofs like in the past. Do you have > > any suggestions on that? Thanks. > > > > > > > The answer from asomers here: > https://github.com/trueos/trueos-core/issues/1493 > > was helpful. > I do not know why I did, but I went and read the comments in the issue. It looks like services were not running. And this problem listed as an issue was on a version of the OS distro that had been upgraded. In your case, I would suggest looking at the logs for services starting up or not starting up. The simple things first. Years ago I used to have issues like that, but somehow I grew older and wiser. Easy to get there once you have made every mistake possible! From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Tue Aug 7 12:40:48 2018 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 12:40:48 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Automount with TrueOS stable Message-ID: > I do not know why I did, but I went and read the comments in the issue. It > looks like services were not running. And this problem listed as an issue was > on a version of the OS distro that had been upgraded. > > in your case, I would suggest looking at the logs for services starting up or > not starting up. The simple things first. > > Years ago I used to have issues like that, but somehow I grew older and wiser. > Easy to get there once you have made every mistake possible! Now I'm not sure where to put those service automountd start service automount start statements. I tried adding them to rc.conf but that didn't work. Also I installed xorg and lumina and ran startx. That sort of works, but doesn't give a bottom bar with a "start" button. I can right click on the desktop and get a menu of a few things. When I do that and start a terminal, I'm not able to resize it other than making it full screen. TrueOS for a while was really helpful to me. I hope they will get back after this transition they are going through, but for now am thinking about trying GhostBSD. Brian Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. http://webEbenezer.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From iznogoud at nobelware.com Tue Aug 7 13:23:19 2018 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 18:23:19 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Automount with TrueOS stable In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20180807182319.GA21390@nobelware.com> > > Now I'm not sure where to put those > service automountd start > service automount start > > statements. I tried adding them to rc.conf but that didn't work. > Where were they in the earlier version of the OS? Can you go back into an old system and find out? Alternatively, can you look for where they are supposed to be (in older versions of the distro) by making searches over file trees? > Also I installed xorg and lumina and ran startx. That sort of > works, but doesn't give a bottom bar with a "start" button. I can > right click on the desktop and get a menu of a few things. When > I do that and start a terminal, I'm not able to resize it other than > making it full screen. TrueOS for a while was really helpful to > me. I hope they will get back after this transition they are going > through, but for now am thinking about trying GhostBSD. > Sounds like they changed the "window manager" of the default install. It sounds like "mwm" or "twm" is what it has by default. Can you see how one can change the default window manager in TrueOS? In standard X11 fashion, and this includes Xorg's X server build, the "xinit" does this, and so you will need to modify your "~/.xinitrc" or the equivalent systemwide file, which should be in something like: /etc/X11/xinit/ or similar. In the case of mwm, try holding down control and right-clicking in the xterm to get some options. Same with left-click. I think you need to learn a bit about how the OS works, in general, and X11 as well. It will help moving forward to bootstartp out of these questions on your own. Time well-spent. From chapinjeff at gmail.com Tue Aug 7 13:39:40 2018 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 13:39:40 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Automount with TrueOS stable In-Reply-To: <20180807182319.GA21390@nobelware.com> References: <20180807182319.GA21390@nobelware.com> Message-ID: Brian, A quick Google search shows that the latest version of TrueOS uses OpenRC -- it even has automount in the example screen shots they use to make the announcement/explain how to use it. Is there a reason you are not using the built in tools to manage start up services, and are trying to reinvent the wheel? I may have missed you explaining why the OS's provided tools are not being used, and if I did, sorry. Jeff On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 1:23 PM, Iznogoud wrote: > > > > Now I'm not sure where to put those > > service automountd start > > service automount start > > > > statements. I tried adding them to rc.conf but that didn't work. > > > > Where were they in the earlier version of the OS? Can you go back into an > old > system and find out? Alternatively, can you look for where they are > supposed > to be (in older versions of the distro) by making searches over file trees? > > > > Also I installed xorg and lumina and ran startx. That sort of > > works, but doesn't give a bottom bar with a "start" button. I can > > right click on the desktop and get a menu of a few things. When > > I do that and start a terminal, I'm not able to resize it other than > > making it full screen. TrueOS for a while was really helpful to > > me. I hope they will get back after this transition they are going > > through, but for now am thinking about trying GhostBSD. > > > > Sounds like they changed the "window manager" of the default install. It > sounds like "mwm" or "twm" is what it has by default. Can you see how one > can > change the default window manager in TrueOS? In standard X11 fashion, and > this > includes Xorg's X server build, the "xinit" does this, and so you will need > to modify your "~/.xinitrc" or the equivalent systemwide file, which should > be in something like: /etc/X11/xinit/ or similar. > > In the case of mwm, try holding down control and right-clicking in the > xterm > to get some options. Same with left-click. > > I think you need to learn a bit about how the OS works, in general, and X11 > as well. It will help moving forward to bootstartp out of these questions > on > your own. Time well-spent. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Aug 8 01:18:48 2018 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 01:18:48 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] good Linux 2-in-1 laptops Message-ID: I prefer to use Ubuntu. I'm looking for a laptop with touchscreen that can work as a tablet -- either detachable or 2-in-1 (flippable). I'm hoping something out there will work well with Linux. Right now I have my eye on this one: http://www.microcenter.com/product/507799/pavilion-x360-convertible-15-cr0017nr-156-2-in-1-laptop-computer---silver Any ideas? I have to say that Ubuntu "works closely" with HP and maintains a list, and that machine isn't on the list... https://certification.ubuntu.com/certification/make/HP/ That seems like a bad sign. Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Aug 8 11:10:05 2018 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 11:10:05 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] mounting external USB when automount didn't happen Message-ID: There were a couple of threads on automounting and I was thinking of sharing this anyway. In my case, using Ubuntu, the problem is that my server is rebooted remotely, but attached USB drives don't automount until I log in at the console. They would then mount in /media/${USER}/ It turns out there is a simple answer -- find the drive device in /dev (say it turns out to be /dev/sdd2) and then run a command that looks like this: udisksctl mount -b /dev/sdd2 My little one-liner script below simplifies this (and helps me remember) by allowing me to do this instead: automount_drive d2 To find the proper device info, you can use fdisk -l, as root. For me this one-liner provides exactly the drives I'm looking for and nothing else: ( sudo fdisk -l | grep -E "[0-9]T .*(NTFS|Microsoft)" ) 2>&1 | grep -v "physical sector boundary" Best, Mike #/bin/bash # mounts USB drive in /media/${USER}/ # # It is assumed to be /dev/sdXN (where XN are a letter and an number) # syntax: # # automount_drive XN # # example - this mounted /media/mbmiller/DriveA: # # automount_drive f2 # # It (sometimes) prompts for user password, then reports the mount point # # Those may change. To get the newest sdXN values, do this: # # sudo fdisk -l # # But that pumps out a lot. To find the attached drives with multiple TBs # of storage, try this: # # sudo fdisk -l | grep -P "\dT " # # It's a simple command: udisksctl mount -b /dev/sd$1 From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Aug 8 11:28:11 2018 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 11:28:11 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] bad crash with Ubuntu 17.04 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I had a very serious problem with many freezes and spontaneous reboots. I wasn't sure if it was Ubuntu, or bad RAM, or something else. It did improve over time -- instead of daily reboots I've been getting them more like weekly, or even biweekly. I finally found out what it was: https://community.amd.com/thread/225795 I have an AMD Ryzen 7 1700X. This is a really nasty problem. When I discovered this bug info yesterday, I went into the BIOS and disabled C-states. That is supposed to help. I assume Linux kernel updates have also been helping because it has improved a lot in the past year. Maybe I'll be lucky and the nightmare will now be over. Who should I be angry at? AMD or the Linux kernel developers? This was such a horror story that I think I might never buy another AMD chip. Mike On Sat, 21 Oct 2017, Mike Miller wrote: > We discussed this a little back in July. I just want to say that the syslog > wasn't helping much. The crashes didn't seem to have much to do with what > was in the log. I never figured out where the problem was, but as I said in > my previous message, over the past three months it kept on improving. It > could go 3 days without a crash. I have now upgraded to Ubuntu 17.10, and > I'm hoping that fixes more of my problems. I was going to go back to 16.10 > LTS, but that looked like it would be a big hassle, so I was crossing my > finger instead, just hoping it would fix itself (not as crazy as it sounds, > right?). > > Mike > > > On Tue, 25 Jul 2017, Mike Miller wrote: > >> This was as serious as any BSOD. I was using chromium-browser and >> when I used the mouse to copy the URL, the whole system just froze. >> The mouse still moved on the screen at first, but nothing else worked, >> then the mouse froze too. I doubt it had anything to do with >> chromium. I couldn't use ctrl-alt-F1 and the machine seemed to >> disappear from the home network, so I couldn't even see it, never mind >> ping it or ssh to it. >> >> Here are the messages from /var/log/syslog (my machine is "taxa2"): >> >> Jul 24 17:02:49 taxa2 org.gtk.vfs.Daemon[2445]: fusermount: failed to >> access mountpoint /run/user/1000/gvfs: Permission denied >> Jul 24 17:02:50 taxa2 hud-service[2166]: #033[31mvoid >> DBusMenuImporter::slotGetLayoutFinished(QDBusPendingCallWatcher*)#033[0m: >> "No such interface 'com.canonical.dbusmenu' on object at path >> /org/ayatana/bamf/window/67108867" >> Jul 24 17:02:54 taxa2 unity-panel-ser[2034]: menus_destroyed: >> assertion 'IS_WINDOW_MENU(wm)' failed >> >> That's what happened just as it got stuck. There was nothing for 25 >> minutes before that and nothing after that until I reset the computer >> and rebooted. >> >> Any ideas? Could it have anything to do with samba? (That was >> running, but nothing should have been accessing it at that time.) I >> was not using sshfs. >> >> Mike >> > From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Aug 8 17:01:26 2018 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 17:01:26 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] good Linux 2-in-1 laptops In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I wasn't seeing much about the particular laptop of interest, but lots of people have successfully installed Linux on similar machines, so I'm giving it a try. I bought one and will be trying the dual-boot install tonight. If it doesn't work well enough, I can return it. Mike On Wed, 8 Aug 2018, Mike Miller wrote: > I prefer to use Ubuntu. I'm looking for a laptop with touchscreen that > can work as a tablet -- either detachable or 2-in-1 (flippable). I'm > hoping something out there will work well with Linux. Right now I have > my eye on this one: > > http://www.microcenter.com/product/507799/pavilion-x360-convertible-15-cr0017nr-156-2-in-1-laptop-computer---silver > > Any ideas? I have to say that Ubuntu "works closely" with HP and > maintains a list, and that machine isn't on the list... > > https://certification.ubuntu.com/certification/make/HP/ > > That seems like a bad sign. > > Mike From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Wed Aug 8 18:24:06 2018 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 18:24:06 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Automount with TrueOS stable Message-ID: > > Where were they in the earlier version of the OS? Can you go back into an old > system and find out? Alternatively, can you look for where they are supposed > to be (in older versions of the distro) by making searches over file trees? I decided to install GhostBSD and so far am happy with it. The only thing that's a little weird is it comes with clang 4.0. I'm not sure how it will be to get a more recent version of that installed. I'm sorry to say goodbye to TrueOS, but will certainly consider giving them another chance in the future. And it seems some critics would like you to think that I'm reinventing the wheel. Something like: C++ compilers are code generators. Why are you building a code generator? I'm not building another C++ compiler. I'm building an on-line code generator. My approach minimizes the amount of code you have to download/build/maintain. It makes it easier for you to work with multiple versions of the code generator. If you've ever used Compiler Explorer (https://godbolt.org), you may know how easy it is to use multiple compilers via their interface. If anyone would like a demo of the C++ Middleware Writer, please let me know. Brian Ebenezer Enterprises - Enjoying programming again. https://github.com/Ebenezer-group/onwards -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Wed Aug 8 18:43:59 2018 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 18:43:59 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Automount with TrueOS stable In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Leave it to you, Brian, to turn a simple email asking for help starting OS services into an ad for your pet project.... I was asking why you were reinventing the wheel and trying to manually modify startup scripts to start a service at boot, when the OS already provides tools to specify what services to start at boot, the example in the official docs are the very service you were trying to start, and the docs were very easy to find. It's a moot point, though, since you appear to have thrown the baby out with the bathwater, and installed an entirely new OS rather than learn how to make minor, supported changes, and use the one you had. Respectfully, Jeff On Wed, Aug 8, 2018, 6:32 PM Brian Wood wrote: > > > > Where were they in the earlier version of the OS? Can you go back into > an old > > system and find out? Alternatively, can you look for where they are > supposed > > to be (in older versions of the distro) by making searches over file > trees? > > I decided to install GhostBSD and so far am happy with it. The only > thing that's a little weird is it comes with clang 4.0. I'm not sure how > it will be to get a more recent version of that installed. I'm sorry to > say goodbye to TrueOS, but will certainly consider giving them > another chance in the future. > > And it seems some critics would like you to think that I'm > reinventing the wheel. Something like: C++ compilers are > code generators. Why are you building a code generator? > > I'm not building another C++ compiler. I'm building an on-line > code generator. My approach minimizes the amount of code > you have to download/build/maintain. It makes it easier for > you to work with multiple versions of the code generator. If > you've ever used Compiler Explorer (https://godbolt.org), you > may know how easy it is to use multiple compilers via their > interface. > > If anyone would like a demo of the C++ Middleware Writer, > please let me know. > > > Brian > Ebenezer Enterprises - Enjoying programming again. > https://github.com/Ebenezer-group/onwards > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kurtis at riseup.net Wed Aug 8 23:25:00 2018 From: kurtis at riseup.net (kurtis) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2018 04:25:00 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] good Linux 2-in-1 laptops In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <14aa0930-b5f1-5e04-f135-a15da318eb89@riseup.net> Are you looking for an ARM or x86 laptop? I recommend the C101 Chromebook Flip if you don't mind ARM. It can run with 100% free firmware, Parabola (or Arch) GNU/Linux, and ships with Coreboot. Mike Miller: > I wasn't seeing much about the particular laptop of interest, but lots > of people have successfully installed Linux on similar machines, so I'm > giving it a try.? I bought one and will be trying the dual-boot install > tonight.? If it doesn't work well enough, I can return it. > > Mike > > On Wed, 8 Aug 2018, Mike Miller wrote: > >> I prefer to use Ubuntu.? I'm looking for a laptop with touchscreen >> that can work as a tablet -- either detachable or 2-in-1 (flippable).? >> I'm hoping something out there will work well with Linux.? Right now I >> have my eye on this one: >> >> http://www.microcenter.com/product/507799/pavilion-x360-convertible-15-cr0017nr-156-2-in-1-laptop-computer---silver >> >> >> Any ideas?? I have to say that Ubuntu "works closely" with HP and >> maintains a list, and that machine isn't on the list... >> >> https://certification.ubuntu.com/certification/make/HP/ >> >> That seems like a bad sign. >> >> Mike > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Aug 9 00:44:50 2018 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 00:44:50 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] good Linux 2-in-1 laptops In-Reply-To: <14aa0930-b5f1-5e04-f135-a15da318eb89@riseup.net> References: <14aa0930-b5f1-5e04-f135-a15da318eb89@riseup.net> Message-ID: Thanks for the tip, kurtis. I will look at that machine anyway, but I did just buy the HP. I'm liking it, so far, but there are some tricks. More on that in the next message. Mike On Thu, 9 Aug 2018, kurtis wrote: > Are you looking for an ARM or x86 laptop? I recommend the C101 > Chromebook Flip if you don't mind ARM. It can run with 100% free > firmware, Parabola (or Arch) GNU/Linux, and ships with Coreboot. > > Mike Miller: >> I wasn't seeing much about the particular laptop of interest, but lots >> of people have successfully installed Linux on similar machines, so I'm >> giving it a try.? I bought one and will be trying the dual-boot install >> tonight.? If it doesn't work well enough, I can return it. >> >> Mike >> >> On Wed, 8 Aug 2018, Mike Miller wrote: >> >>> I prefer to use Ubuntu.? I'm looking for a laptop with touchscreen >>> that can work as a tablet -- either detachable or 2-in-1 (flippable).? >>> I'm hoping something out there will work well with Linux.? Right now I >>> have my eye on this one: >>> >>> http://www.microcenter.com/product/507799/pavilion-x360-convertible-15-cr0017nr-156-2-in-1-laptop-computer---silver >>> >>> >>> Any ideas?? I have to say that Ubuntu "works closely" with HP and >>> maintains a list, and that machine isn't on the list... >>> >>> https://certification.ubuntu.com/certification/make/HP/ >>> >>> That seems like a bad sign. >>> >>> Mike >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From iznogoud at nobelware.com Thu Aug 9 09:55:44 2018 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 14:55:44 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] mounting external USB when automount didn't happen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20180809145544.GA21817@nobelware.com> > > ( sudo fdisk -l | grep -E "[0-9]T .*(NTFS|Microsoft)" ) 2>&1 | grep -v > "physical sector boundary" > Can't one use "udev" to take care of all this given that USB can be queried by udev and then udel rules can be used? Maybe a little less "ad hoc" or not? From iznogoud at nobelware.com Thu Aug 9 10:01:44 2018 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 15:01:44 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] bad crash with Ubuntu 17.04 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20180809150144.GB21817@nobelware.com> > > Who should I be angry at? AMD or the Linux kernel developers? This was > such a horror story that I think I might never buy another AMD chip. > I completely understand your frustration, and I empathize. But there is not point in blaiming anyone, and it certainly will not help... With the philosopher's hat on I will say that it is all about how you deal with such issues. If I were you I would have suspected bad memory first. Then you run a memtest for several days. If that passes, you are left with software issues, which you can very easily both isolate and remedy, especially with Linux. Just downgrade to a different distribution or kernel. It is not hard to do, and with a good backup (either a terball or dd) you could get back to where you were once you have all the info. It is a free OS. It is the best OS. Can't blame the developers. AMD and Intel are all you have for hardware, and in my opinion hardware is dirt cheap. Either way, this is a first world problem, and one with a solution that you found yourself. A win. From iznogoud at nobelware.com Thu Aug 9 10:12:04 2018 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 15:12:04 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Automount with TrueOS stable In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20180809151204.GC21817@nobelware.com> > > It's a moot point, though, since you appear to have thrown the baby out > with the bathwater, and installed an entirely new OS rather than learn how > to make minor, supported changes, and use the one you had. > This is a good point. You cannot always escape to a different land to start your new kingdom. Lots of experimentation with VMs would have helped with this. One comment on compilers and deelopment environments. I had mentioned here before the use of environment modules. I had given an example to Brian of how to put GCC 6.0.x on a system that already had GCC 4.x.x, and make it seamless and non-fatal for the OS's function. The same can be done with just about anything (compilers, virtualization, libraries, etc). Have a look: MODULE(1) Modules package MODULE(1) NAME module - command interface to the Modules package SYNOPSIS module [ switches ] [ sub-command ] [ sub-command-args ] DESCRIPTION module is a user interface to the Modules package. The Modules package provides for the dynamic modification of the user's environment via modulefiles. Each modulefile contains the information needed to configure the shell for an application. Once the Modules package is initialized, the environment can be modified on a per-module basis using the module command which interprets modulefiles. Typically modulefiles instruct the module command to alter or set shell environment variables such as PATH, MANPATH, etc. modulefiles may be shared by many users on a system and users may have their own collection to supplement or replace the shared modulefiles. From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Aug 9 11:11:51 2018 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 11:11:51 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] mounting external USB when automount didn't happen In-Reply-To: <20180809145544.GA21817@nobelware.com> References: <20180809145544.GA21817@nobelware.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Aug 2018, Iznogoud wrote: >> ( sudo fdisk -l | grep -E "[0-9]T .*(NTFS|Microsoft)" ) 2>&1 | grep -v "physical sector boundary" > > Can't one use "udev" to take care of all this given that USB can be > queried by udev and then udel rules can be used? Maybe a little less "ad > hoc" or not? Thanks, Iznogoud! I don't know how to use udev, but it does seem like the sort of thing I should learn. Here's what's happening on my system: (1) there are several USB drives attached to the machine (2) when it reboots, those drives are not automounted, until... (3) I log in at the console, and then they are mounted, but... (4) if I'm not there, but I ssh in, they are still not mounted. So I came up with my way of doing it remotely. It would be much better if the system were to mount all attached drives before I logged in. (The fdisk/grep command above is really just listing the USB drives that are not mounted.) I think the udev system could be made to do that. Is that right? While I'm on this topic, because of how they are mounted, these drives are only accessible to me -- to my user account -- and not to other users or processes. I would like to be able to make them available to, say, the Apache web server. Does anyone know how to do that? Best answer would do this: (1) mount all attached USB drives at startup before anyone logs in and (2) all mount points have certain owner/group permissions: I am owner (rw), www-data is group (r-only) (3) do the same thing when a new USB drive is attached to the already-running system Thanks in advance to anyone who can tell me how this works! Mike From iznogoud at nobelware.com Thu Aug 9 11:28:27 2018 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 16:28:27 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] mounting external USB when automount didn't happen In-Reply-To: References: <20180809145544.GA21817@nobelware.com> Message-ID: <20180809162827.GA25080@nobelware.com> > > I don't know how to use udev, but it does seem like the sort of thing I > should learn. Here's what's happening on my system: > > (1) there are several USB drives attached to the machine > (2) when it reboots, those drives are not automounted, until... > (3) I log in at the console, and then they are mounted, but... > (4) if I'm not there, but I ssh in, they are still not mounted. > Right. This makes sense, and the system is bahaving as it should. Your solution works, but you want this automated. Most certainly a udev task, with some additional tweaks (see below). Have a look here: http://www.reactivated.net/writing_udev_rules.html http://www.reactivated.net/writing_udev_rules.html#example-usbhdd I am going to be digging into udev in the coming weeks, but your early timing catches me un-prepared to provide any real help... > > While I'm on this topic, because of how they are mounted, these drives are > only accessible to me -- to my user account -- and not to other users or > processes. I would like to be able to make them available to, say, the > Apache web server. Does anyone know how to do that? > What I would do is create a group (/etc/groups) that is responsible for keeping this data around and make both you and the webserver user ("apache" I think) members of the group. Then, give read-write and execute permissions to the drives to this group. Something like that. > Best answer would do this: > > (1) mount all attached USB drives at startup before anyone logs in and > (2) all mount points have certain owner/group permissions: > I am owner (rw), www-data is group (r-only) > (3) do the same thing when a new USB drive is attached to the > already-running system > You are suggesting the solution I offered above. I think you are on the right track. With some testing you will get there. From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Aug 9 11:30:13 2018 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 11:30:13 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] bad crash with Ubuntu 17.04 In-Reply-To: <20180809150144.GB21817@nobelware.com> References: <20180809150144.GB21817@nobelware.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Aug 2018, Iznogoud wrote: >> Who should I be angry at? AMD or the Linux kernel developers? This >> was such a horror story that I think I might never buy another AMD >> chip. > > I completely understand your frustration, and I empathize. But there is > not point in blaiming anyone, and it certainly will not help... With the > philosopher's hat on I will say that it is all about how you deal with > such issues. If I were you I would have suspected bad memory first. Then > you run a memtest for several days. Yep. Found nothing. > If that passes, you are left with software issues, which you can very > easily both isolate and remedy, especially with Linux. Just downgrade to > a different distribution or kernel. It is not hard to do, and with a > good backup (either a terball or dd) you could get back to where you > were once you have all the info. (A) I think it is hard to do, and (B) I don't think it would have worked. Are you saying that changing the Linux distro or kernel version would have fixed it? I think the newer kernels were better (the ones that came out in the past year). I haven't heard that older kernels would have fixed it. > It is a free OS. It is the best OS. Can't blame the developers. > > AMD and Intel are all you have for hardware, and in my opinion hardware > is dirt cheap. > > Either way, this is a first world problem, and one with a solution that > you found yourself. A win. But it took me a year. If there is any way to avoid having that happen again, I will avoid it! I think you are right, though: it was a haphazard thing and avoiding AMD won't help me. But I think there is a way to avoid future problems: I should work with well-established hardware. I chose to use a brand-new AMD chip because the young guy in the computer shop told me it was the cool new thing (it is pretty cool). In retrospect, that was a mistake. If I only use year-old processors (or older) and mobos, then there will be data on the web and I won't be waiting a year to figure out what happened. So I agree -- AMD, Intel and Linux are best, and I'm stuck with them. I'm going to be avoiding the hot new thing, though. Mike From iznogoud at nobelware.com Thu Aug 9 11:58:21 2018 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 16:58:21 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] bad crash with Ubuntu 17.04 In-Reply-To: References: <20180809150144.GB21817@nobelware.com> Message-ID: <20180809165821.GA26204@nobelware.com> A year is a long time. I would have quit trying long before that. I have not gone ot kernel 4 yet; I am still on 3. Really, until I need the functionality of something new, I do not just do it for the sake of doing it. Newest is not always better, and latest does not mean "bug-free." A colleague has had an issue on an a particular HPC system and the latest HDF5 library. He ended up spending a lot of time on it, and I even had to write a tester for him to pass to the OpenGroup so that they can fix their distro. Distractions I do not need... From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Aug 9 12:11:53 2018 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 12:11:53 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] bad crash with Ubuntu 17.04 In-Reply-To: <20180809165821.GA26204@nobelware.com> References: <20180809150144.GB21817@nobelware.com> <20180809165821.GA26204@nobelware.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Aug 2018, Iznogoud wrote: > A year is a long time. I would have quit trying long before that. I kinda did give up. It had been improving, presumably because of kernel upgrades. The only reason I found out about the Ryzen issue was that I was looking at new laptops -- "does this one work with with Linux?" -- and I found that an HP laptop with AMD Ryzen processor was said to suffer from that Ryzen bug (that I hadn't heard of). I bought mine last July and it looks like most of the talk about it came out in February, so there wasn't much out there about it when I was looking back in July and August last year. > I have not gone ot kernel 4 yet; I am still on 3. Really, until I need > the functionality of something new, I do not just do it for the sake of > doing it. Newest is not always better, and latest does not mean > "bug-free." A colleague has had an issue on an a particular HPC system > and the latest HDF5 library. He ended up spending a lot of time on it, > and I even had to write a tester for him to pass to the OpenGroup so > that they can fix their distro. Distractions I do not need... Right. If it ain't broke ... But sometimes it is broke! It seems like a lot of devices work better with a newer kernel. Right now I'm working on a new laptop where the wifi isn't working (HP with Realtek RTL8822BE), but I'm told that the newest kernels support it. The problem is, I need to install software to make it work, but that's hard to do with no networking (there is no ethernet on the laptop). More on that in a separate post. Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Aug 9 12:01:21 2018 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 12:01:21 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] mounting external USB when automount didn't happen In-Reply-To: <20180809162827.GA25080@nobelware.com> References: <20180809145544.GA21817@nobelware.com> <20180809162827.GA25080@nobelware.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Aug 2018, Iznogoud wrote: >> While I'm on this topic, because of how they are mounted, these drives >> are only accessible to me -- to my user account -- and not to other >> users or processes. I would like to be able to make them available to, >> say, the Apache web server. Does anyone know how to do that? > > What I would do is create a group (/etc/groups) that is responsible for > keeping this data around and make both you and the webserver user > ("apache" I think) members of the group. Then, give read-write and > execute permissions to the drives to this group. Something like that. Thanks for the tips (some not recapped here). The webserver is user name is "www-data" (I guess that's the Apache default now). It has its own group (also called "www-data"). So if the mount point has these owners and permissions... chown ${USER}:www-data chmod 750 ...that would do what I want, right? (owner: me, group: webserver, owner has rwx and group has r-x). In other words, I don't think making a new group adds anything I need. > You are suggesting the solution I offered above. I think you are on the > right track. With some testing you will get there. Thanks. I'll let you know if I get it. Also, I guess you are working on udev, so let me know if you figure it out. It seems like the udev rules have numbers that determine how early in the boot process they are implemented. Example subset: $ ls -l /lib/udev/rules.d/*usb* -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 552 Apr 21 2017 /lib/udev/rules.d/39-usbmuxd.rules -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 998 Sep 15 2017 /lib/udev/rules.d/40-usb-media-players.rules -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 40871 Feb 23 13:56 /lib/udev/rules.d/40-usb_modeswitch.rules -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 292 Jan 16 2018 /lib/udev/rules.d/55-ippusbxd.rules -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 692 Jun 22 07:55 /lib/udev/rules.d/73-usb-net-by-mac.rules -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 8126 Apr 24 06:06 /lib/udev/rules.d/77-mm-usb-device-blacklist.rules -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2452 Apr 24 06:06 /lib/udev/rules.d/77-mm-usb-serial-adapters-greylist.rules So the fix I need might be as simple as finding the right rule, changing the number to a lower value and hardcoding user and group. Thanks again, Iznogoud! Mike From sfertch at gmail.com Thu Aug 9 13:01:10 2018 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 13:01:10 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] mounting external USB when automount didn't happen In-Reply-To: References: <20180809145544.GA21817@nobelware.com> <20180809162827.GA25080@nobelware.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 12:27 PM Mike Miller wrote: > So the fix I need might be as simple as finding the right rule, changing > the number to a lower value and hardcoding user and group. > It's been a while since I did udev rules for usb. But, I need to do it again since my home server now has two external drives. But, last time I did it was along the lines of: Create udev rules to static assign devices Mount devices and set group permissions appropriately Create entries in fstab or auto.misc file depending on if wanted mount at boot time or access time It was really pretty easy, and IIRC I followed rules similar to what I did with ASM devices on RAC clusters. Only took a couple of minutes to do it -Shawn From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Aug 9 15:49:54 2018 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 15:49:54 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] emoji test for terminal Message-ID: Thought you all might enjoy this. It looks great in the latest gnome-terminal: wget -qO- https://www.fileformat.info/info/emoji/browsertest.htm | grep -B4 '' | grep -P ".{1,5}/td" | grep -A1 href | grep -v -- '^--' | perl -pe 's/' -f2 | perl -pe 's# emoji_test.txt same code, more readable: wget -qO- https://www.fileformat.info/info/emoji/browsertest.htm | \ grep -B4 '' | grep -P ".{1,5}/td" | \ grep -A1 href | grep -v -- '^--' | perl -pe 's/' -f2 | perl -pe 's# emoji_test.txt Then you can look at it using various programs and terminals. In gnome-terminal, use Ctrl+ (Ctrl with plus sign, which really means Ctrl-Shift with the =/+ key) to get a bigger font. I hit it about 8 times to go to max size after doing this: less emoji_test.txt This is a little more fun to look at: grep '=' emoji_test.txt | perl -pe 's/^.* = //' | paste - - - - - | perl -pe 's/\n/\n\n/' | less That drops the descriptive text and shows five emojis per line. If you aren't seeing beautifully-colored little icons like these... http://selectionism.org/mbmiller/pics/misc/emoji_screenshot.png ...then you might need a new terminal. You might also like to try Marcus Kuhn's UTF-8 terminal test files, like this one: wget -qO- https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/ucs/examples/UTF-8-demo.txt | less Best, Mike From iznogoud at nobelware.com Thu Aug 9 15:52:07 2018 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 20:52:07 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] mounting external USB when automount didn't happen In-Reply-To: References: <20180809145544.GA21817@nobelware.com> <20180809162827.GA25080@nobelware.com>

Message-ID: <20180810164414.GB12418@nobelware.com> Oh, Dee. Too many monitors is your problem, or even too much memory. Guaranteed Firefox would never crash if you used it like regular people do and had only one monitor and 2GB of memory. Also, I hear Windows EDGE and Explorer are just bulletproof, and Microsoft also provides an email service, while their lead guy has a huge charitable non-profit he is running. I also hear that the Linux kernel is not keeping up with new hardware very well. Sounds like you need big changes in life! In all seriousness... I have an excess of 20 crashes of Firefox per day. It has stopped bothering me. It still is free software running in a free OS on old hardware. From iznogoud at nobelware.com Fri Aug 10 11:46:35 2018 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 16:46:35 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] bad crash with Ubuntu 17.04 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20180810164635.GC12418@nobelware.com> > > in my experience using a newer kernel together with an older userspace > almost always just works (indeed openvz et al rely on this), tho i confess > my experience has rarely included module issues, if i had a reason to i'd > try keeping the module heirarchy together with a new kernel and try them > with the rest of everything being an older userspace. You can keep the system (libraries, etc) the way it is and upgrade the kernel and it will be fine. But the modules will have to follow the kernel, from a version perspective. Done it before several times. Now I just do not upgrade anything anymore and spend that time riding bike. From iznogoud at nobelware.com Fri Aug 10 11:51:12 2018 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 16:51:12 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] recommending HP Pavilion x360 Convertible 15-cr0017nr In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20180810165112.GD12418@nobelware.com> This is good info. I have wanted a tablet-like Linux to see how it would work for me. The 5 sec to power cycle press is a hardware feature -- I am sure. Your bravery in touching the Win10 registry, by your own admission, has automatically made you our resident Windows expert! From iznogoud at nobelware.com Fri Aug 10 11:55:24 2018 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 16:55:24 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Automount with TrueOS stable In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20180810165524.GE12418@nobelware.com> The environment modules will work on FreeBSD and maybe Macs. Windows and I do not get along this year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environment_Modules_%28software%29 http://modules.sourceforge.net/ From o1bigtenor at gmail.com Fri Aug 10 12:04:45 2018 From: o1bigtenor at gmail.com (o1bigtenor) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 12:04:45 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] browsers and firefox In-Reply-To: <20180810164414.GB12418@nobelware.com> References:

<20180810164414.GB12418@nobelware.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 11:44 AM, Iznogoud wrote: > Oh, Dee. Too many monitors is your problem, or even too much memory. Guaranteed > Firefox would never crash if you used it like regular people do and had only > one monitor and 2GB of memory. Also, I hear Windows EDGE and Explorer are just > bulletproof, and Microsoft also provides an email service, while their lead > guy has a huge charitable non-profit he is running. I also hear that the Linux > kernel is not keeping up with new hardware very well. Sounds like you need big > changes in life! > > In all seriousness... > > I have an excess of 20 crashes of Firefox per day. It has stopped bothering me. > It still is free software running in a free OS on old hardware. Oh crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I tend to use tabs as repositories for interesting information. So when I'm digging for something I can easily get 20-30 tabs (new ones that is) in a few hours of work. Now if the software actually worked it wouldn't be an issue but now - - - well I can't seem to back up my tab list quickly enough. I'm not up to 20 crashes but I think anything more than 1 in 6 months is excessive. Anyway - - - why should I be like other people? I can't help that they like living in little tiny boxes - - - me - - - the world is my playground and I want the space!!! Grin Dee From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Fri Aug 10 14:46:20 2018 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 14:46:20 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] browsers and firefox Message-ID: > > ..easily get 20-30 tabs (new ones that is) in a few hours of work. Now if > the software actually worked it wouldn't be an issue but now - - - well I > can't seem to back up my tab list quickly enough. agree, shouldn't crash, the user base will evaporate pretty quickly if that keeps up. happily quantum doesn't crash for me, tho i regularly crash it by just flipping off the power strip, ext3 journals make recovery a non-issue. doesn't it still have all your tabs on relaunch? does for me, -esr or quantum, and they don't load again until they get focus, which is good. you might just need to set some preference so they're still there on relaunch. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From iznogoud at nobelware.com Fri Aug 10 15:00:09 2018 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 20:00:09 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] browsers and firefox In-Reply-To: References:

<20180810164414.GB12418@nobelware.com> Message-ID: <20180810200009.GA19926@nobelware.com> Do not be like other people. Acquire the best attributes from them, and be you! You just described the way I read Wikipedia. My Firefox apologeticly brings back up all the links in separate tabs after a crash. Most of the time, it is fine to move on like that. From o1bigtenor at gmail.com Fri Aug 10 16:19:29 2018 From: o1bigtenor at gmail.com (o1bigtenor) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 16:19:29 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] browsers and firefox In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:46 PM, gregrwm wrote: >> ..easily get 20-30 tabs (new ones that is) in a few hours of work. Now if >> the software actually worked it wouldn't be an issue but now - - - well I >> can't seem to back up my tab list quickly enough. > > > agree, shouldn't crash, the user base will evaporate pretty quickly if that > keeps up. happily quantum doesn't crash for me, tho i regularly crash it by > just flipping off the power strip, ext3 journals make recovery a non-issue. > doesn't it still have all your tabs on relaunch? does for me, -esr or > quantum, and they don't load again until they get focus, which is good. you > might just need to set some preference so they're still there on relaunch. > > Sorry - - -quantum is crashing just as often as the previous bs. Worse - - - ff-esr 60.1 (IIRC) doesn't even save all the tabs - - - really makes for a flustercluck! From o1bigtenor at gmail.com Fri Aug 10 16:20:57 2018 From: o1bigtenor at gmail.com (o1bigtenor) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 16:20:57 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] browsers and firefox In-Reply-To: <20180810200009.GA19926@nobelware.com> References:

Message-ID: <20180815165919.GB28092@nobelware.com> This is off topic, Rick, but I will bite. I think you are not giving young people enough credit. There are many smart kids around. They are born in a world that offers them technological advances, and as a result, they have the opportunity (and most take it) to be smarter than I was when I was a kid. It is easy to know more. What is not easy is to learn things in depth, which still requires personal investment and effort in studies. The world is not getting worse because of tehc. I read literature about dystopian societies, and most recently I started painting cyberpunk landscapes, but I would absolutely hate to live in one! From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Wed Aug 15 14:19:34 2018 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 14:19:34 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] downloading TV shows using youtube-dl Message-ID: From: Iznogoud > This is off topic, Rick, but I will bite. > > I think you are not giving young people enough credit. There are > many smart kids around. I don't think he said they were dumb. I will say though that there are a lot of ignorant kids around imo. They don't know north,south,east,west, how to read a map and a lot of other things. They are fairly naive about how hard they are going to have to work to support themselves -- overcome their blind spots. I have this friend that's older. He tells me how he and his wife save the old maids when they make popcorn, and after they've saved enough of them, they pop them. He told me that a few years ago and I've been thinking about it since. I just throw my old maids out. Anyway, this friend is very friendly and hard-working. Like Joe Mauer, I think everything happens for a reason and I wonder if I should start saving my old maids. Maybe I should give them to the birds. Anyway, the point is I have a feeling a lot of kids would be astonished to hear something like this. >They are born in a world that offers them technological advances, > and as a result, they have the opportunity (and most take it) to be > smarter than I was when I was a kid. It is easy to know more. > What is not easy is to learn things in depth, which still requires > personal investment and effort in studies. > The world is not getting worse because of tehc. I read literature > about dystopian societies, and most recently I started painting > cyberpunk landscapes, but I would absolutely hate to live in one! In some ways I think it's worse because of tech. Crooks have more resources to be crooked. People will go to great lengths to figure out clever ways to steal things rather than building their lives on integrity. This isn't just true of Russians, Chinese, North Koreans and Iranians. It's true of some Americans. Brian Ebenezer Enterprises - "Not only that, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. " Romans 5:4 http://webEbenezer.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eng at pinenet.com Wed Aug 15 15:19:48 2018 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 15:19:48 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] downloading TV shows using youtube-dl In-Reply-To: References: <20180814163243.GC7614@nobelware.com>

Message-ID: This is what I said. People watch too much TV. Blood, guts, fighting, greed, stupid in the extreme. Not birds singing or bees on flowers. So on the Linux topic was "mechanization and computer automation." Very worth learning these days. Izzy argues the RS232 serial port is dead. So much for discussion. Also related to discussion a particular TV show I want to find; "Forces of Nature," with physicist Brian Cox, preferably BBC version. And how that relates to climate friendly fuels now smoking up the stratosphere. As for lazy young people, I'm delighted I found one with a cell phone who will hang around for pay tomorrow while a concrete truck pours cement. I honestly worry doing cement out here after the truck leaves. If I have a heart attack, would anybody, could anybody chip me out of hardened concrete?? I have junk from both U of M Chemistry and Otto Schmitt's lab on the biofuels frontier. A scientist hopes for some dignity. Socialism is of .. by .. and for spud heads who watch too much TV. Rick Engebretson wrote: > That explains a lot!! > > When we first moved out here with 3 kids in early 1980s I outsmarted TV > by having a small screen black and white with fuzzy picture. Our > children learned to read, and all now have advanced degrees and good > jobs and good relationships. > > It's now accepted that young people won't work or learn anything. They > want socialism. That's why mechanization and computer automation is so > vital to their survival. Shovel manure? Milk cows? Weed a garden? No, > get out the pesticide, herbicide, and 8 wheel John Deere!! Then they see > on TV how birds once sang beautifully, bees once pollinated wildflowers, > and water was once clean and they find someone to blame. > > I did catch part of a PBS TV show about 2AM this Monday morning that I > tried to later find. It was called "Forces of Nature," by physicist > Brian Cox. This episode was about "Color" and I was amazed how my old > Biophysics theories are now TV science. Apparently the BBC version is > much better than the PBS. Trying to inform the bogus "renewable energy" > non-scientists about solar photochemical conversion of biomass to carbon > neutral fuel is impossible, so education is vital. Forest fire is the > new solution for a lazy generation. > > Mike Miller wrote: >> On Tue, 14 Aug 2018, Iznogoud wrote: >> >>> Wow! I did not know people have that much time to watch TV. >> >> Maybe you should read newspaper or magazine articles about American TV >> viewing -- average numbers of hours per week, etc. The truth is out >> there! >> >> That says the average household is watching about 8 hours of TV per day, >> but that's been cut down a little from the peak at 9 hours per day >> because they are now watching so much more Netflix and other non-TV >> video. >> > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From iznogoud at nobelware.com Wed Aug 15 18:14:36 2018 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 23:14:36 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] downloading TV shows using youtube-dl In-Reply-To: References: <20180814163243.GC7614@nobelware.com>