From sraun at fireopal.org Fri Sep 1 07:43:19 2017 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2017 07:43:19 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Cell Phone Repair Message-ID: <20170901124319.GA25340@fireopal.org> I dropped my LG G3 one too many times - the touch screen is now only kind-of responding to very heavy touches. My diagnosis is that I either need my existing screen remounted or replaced. Anyone have local repair shops to recommend or dis-recommend? -- Scott Raun sraun at fireopal.org From tclug at freakzilla.com Fri Sep 1 08:18:52 2017 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Clug) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2017 08:18:52 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Cell Phone Repair In-Reply-To: <20170901124319.GA25340@fireopal.org> References: <20170901124319.GA25340@fireopal.org> Message-ID: I recommend looking up some YouTube videos on doing it yourself. It is fairly trivial to replace a cellphone screen. If (big if!) you need both a screen and a digitiser, that'll run you about $50 on Amazon. And if you just need a screen, that's like $15. A cellphone replair place will easily charge you $200. If you choose not to do it yourself, **PLEASE** do not use CPR. On Fri, 1 Sep 2017, Scott Raun wrote: > I dropped my LG G3 one too many times - the touch screen is now only > kind-of responding to very heavy touches. My diagnosis is that I > either need my existing screen remounted or replaced. > > Anyone have local repair shops to recommend or dis-recommend? > > From sraun at fireopal.org Fri Sep 1 08:53:38 2017 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2017 08:53:38 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Cell Phone Repair In-Reply-To: References: <20170901124319.GA25340@fireopal.org> Message-ID: <20170901135338.GB3628@fireopal.org> I may not need *anything* replaced - the screen has popped away from the body in the center, but is attached on both ends. It does respond to very heavy pushes - but not to taps. I just looked at one video - while I agree it does not look difficult, part of what I'm paying a repair place for is an accurate diagnosis of my problem. I don't have a heatgun - I'd have to borrow or buy one, and it's not worth it to buy one. $50 is worth it to me - I'm not handy. For $200, I'll spend $285 and get a new LG G5 from ting (my provider). On Fri, Sep 01, 2017 at 08:18:52AM -0500, Clug wrote: > I recommend looking up some YouTube videos on doing it yourself. It is > fairly trivial to replace a cellphone screen. > > If (big if!) you need both a screen and a digitiser, that'll run you about > $50 on Amazon. And if you just need a screen, that's like $15. A cellphone > replair place will easily charge you $200. > > > If you choose not to do it yourself, **PLEASE** do not use CPR. > > > > On Fri, 1 Sep 2017, Scott Raun wrote: > > >I dropped my LG G3 one too many times - the touch screen is now only > >kind-of responding to very heavy touches. My diagnosis is that I > >either need my existing screen remounted or replaced. > > > >Anyone have local repair shops to recommend or dis-recommend? -- Scott Raun sraun at fireopal.org From kjh at flyballdogs.com Fri Sep 1 08:58:52 2017 From: kjh at flyballdogs.com (Kathryn Hogg) Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2017 08:58:52 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Cell Phone Repair In-Reply-To: <20170901124319.GA25340@fireopal.org> References: <20170901124319.GA25340@fireopal.org> Message-ID: Device Pitstop in Maple Grove did a great job replacing the screen on my Google Nexus 5x. On 2017-09-01 07:43, Scott Raun wrote: > I dropped my LG G3 one too many times - the touch screen is now only > kind-of responding to very heavy touches. My diagnosis is that I > either need my existing screen remounted or replaced. > > Anyone have local repair shops to recommend or dis-recommend? -- Kathryn Feel the Breeze http://womensfooty.com From tclug at freakzilla.com Fri Sep 1 09:09:44 2017 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Clug) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2017 09:09:44 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Cell Phone Repair In-Reply-To: References: <20170901124319.GA25340@fireopal.org> Message-ID: I'm torn between "Yay, another Nexus person" and "whyyyy didn't you replace it yourself???" (; On Fri, 1 Sep 2017, Kathryn Hogg wrote: > Device Pitstop in Maple Grove did a great job replacing the screen on my > Google Nexus 5x. > > On 2017-09-01 07:43, Scott Raun wrote: >> I dropped my LG G3 one too many times - the touch screen is now only >> kind-of responding to very heavy touches. My diagnosis is that I >> either need my existing screen remounted or replaced. >> >> Anyone have local repair shops to recommend or dis-recommend? > > From tclug at freakzilla.com Fri Sep 1 09:11:29 2017 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Clug) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2017 09:11:29 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Cell Phone Repair In-Reply-To: <20170901135338.GB3628@fireopal.org> References: <20170901124319.GA25340@fireopal.org> <20170901135338.GB3628@fireopal.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Sep 2017, Scott Raun wrote: > $50 is worth it to me - I'm not handy. For $200, I'll spend $285 and > get a new LG G5 from ting (my provider). Therein lis the problem, really. It might be a case of "Yeah we'll look at it for $50" and then charge you whatever else, and possibly taking their time. I'm starting to think I should offer a screen replacement/fix thing for TCLUGers... From kjh at flyballdogs.com Fri Sep 1 09:19:13 2017 From: kjh at flyballdogs.com (Kathryn Hogg) Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2017 09:19:13 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Cell Phone Repair In-Reply-To: References: <20170901124319.GA25340@fireopal.org> Message-ID: Basically I didn't feel like doing it myself. I watched the videos, checked prices, and the cost wasn't much more to have them do it. Sometimes when you get older, your time is worth more than the money. On 2017-09-01 09:09, Clug wrote: > I'm torn between "Yay, another Nexus person" and "whyyyy didn't you > replace it yourself???" (; > > On Fri, 1 Sep 2017, Kathryn Hogg wrote: > >> Device Pitstop in Maple Grove did a great job replacing the screen on >> my Google Nexus 5x. >> >> On 2017-09-01 07:43, Scott Raun wrote: >>> I dropped my LG G3 one too many times - the touch screen is now only >>> kind-of responding to very heavy touches. My diagnosis is that I >>> either need my existing screen remounted or replaced. >>> >>> Anyone have local repair shops to recommend or dis-recommend? >> >> > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Kathryn Feel the Breeze http://womensfooty.com From tclug at freakzilla.com Fri Sep 1 09:21:41 2017 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Clug) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2017 09:21:41 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Cell Phone Repair In-Reply-To: References: <20170901124319.GA25340@fireopal.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Sep 2017, Kathryn Hogg wrote: > Sometimes when you get older, your time is worth more than the money. This is true, but when you /enjoy/ taking things apart and putting them back together, this is pretty much paying someone to have fun instead of you (: From jpschewe at mtu.net Sun Sep 3 07:47:34 2017 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 07:47:34 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Odd networking on Comcast Message-ID: I'm trying to debug some issues with my internet connection. I have Comcast and the traceroute results are not coming back what I expect. On my router my routing table looks like this: >netstat -rn Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags MSS Window irtt Iface 0.0.0.0 73.37.164.1 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 enp1s10 73.37.164.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.254.0 U 0 0 0 enp1s10 Given that, I expect the first hop in a traceroute to be 73.37.164.1, but it's not. >traceroute -n 8.8.8.8 traceroute to 8.8.8.8 (8.8.8.8), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets 1 96.120.48.69 8.890 ms 14.915 ms 15.659 ms 2 68.85.168.121 14.833 ms 15.604 ms 15.575 ms 3 96.108.188.62 14.502 ms 14.484 ms 14.665 ms 4 96.108.188.101 15.455 ms 16.596 ms 16.574 ms 5 68.86.94.81 28.011 ms 26.859 ms 26.841 ms 6 68.86.85.158 24.289 ms 19.757 ms 22.386 ms ... Can anyone explain what's going on here? - Jon -- http://mtu.net/~jpschewe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Sun Sep 3 08:19:13 2017 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 08:19:13 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Odd networking on Comcast Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 7:47 AM, Jon Schewe wrote: > I'm trying to debug some issues with my internet connection. I have > Comcast and the traceroute results are not coming back what I expect. On my > router my routing table looks like this: > > >netstat -rn > Kernel IP routing table > Destination Gateway Genmask Flags MSS Window irtt > Iface > 0.0.0.0 73.37.164.1 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 > enp1s10 > 73.37.164.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.254.0 U 0 0 0 > enp1s10 > > Given that, I expect the first hop in a traceroute to be 73.37.164.1, but > it's not. > >traceroute -n 8.8.8.8 > traceroute to 8.8.8.8 (8.8.8.8), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets > 1 96.120.48.69 8.890 ms 14.915 ms 15.659 ms > 2 68.85.168.121 14.833 ms 15.604 ms 15.575 ms > 3 96.108.188.62 14.502 ms 14.484 ms 14.665 ms > 4 96.108.188.101 15.455 ms 16.596 ms 16.574 ms > 5 68.86.94.81 28.011 ms 26.859 ms 26.841 ms > 6 68.86.85.158 24.289 ms 19.757 ms 22.386 ms > ... > > Can anyone explain what's going on here? > your traceroute addresses starting with 68.85.168.121 identify as comcast hosts. it just looks like the box doing the traceroute isn't routed through the box you call your router. -- this concludes test 42 of big bang inflation dynamics. in the advent of an actual universe, further instructions will be provided. 000000000000000000000042 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jus at krytosvirus.com Sun Sep 3 10:07:04 2017 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2017 10:07:04 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Odd networking on Comcast Message-ID: Routers have multiple addresses, typically at least 3 if not more: one facing end users, one facing upstream and a loop back address. Some network operators choose to use a loop back address for traffic replies in things such as traceroutes. Especially as some may be using rfc1918 addresses on some interfaces. -------- Original message --------From: Jon Schewe Date: 9/3/17 7:47 AM (GMT-06:00) To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: [tclug-list] Odd networking on Comcast I'm trying to debug some issues with my internet connection. I have Comcast and the traceroute results are not coming back what I expect. On my router my routing table looks like this: >netstat -rnKernel IP routing tableDestination ? ? Gateway ? ? ? ? Genmask ? ? ? ? Flags ? MSS Window ?irtt Iface0.0.0.0 ? ? ? ? 73.37.164.1 ? ? 0.0.0.0 ? ? ? ? UG ? ? ? ?0 0 ? ? ? ? ?0 enp1s1073.37.164.0 ? ? 0.0.0.0 ? ? ? ? 255.255.254.0 ? U ? ? ? ? 0 0 ? ? ? ? ?0 enp1s10 Given that, I expect the first hop in a traceroute to be 73.37.164.1, but it's not.>traceroute -n 8.8.8.8traceroute to 8.8.8.8 (8.8.8.8), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets?1 ?96.120.48.69 ?8.890 ms ?14.915 ms ?15.659 ms?2 ?68.85.168.121 ?14.833 ms ?15.604 ms ?15.575 ms?3 ?96.108.188.62 ?14.502 ms ?14.484 ms ?14.665 ms?4 ?96.108.188.101 ?15.455 ms ?16.596 ms ?16.574 ms?5 ?68.86.94.81 ?28.011 ms ?26.859 ms ?26.841 ms?6 ?68.86.85.158 ?24.289 ms ?19.757 ms ?22.386 ms... Can anyone explain what's going on here? - Jon -- http://mtu.net/~jpschewe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at lunn.ch Sun Sep 3 09:57:22 2017 From: andrew at lunn.ch (Andrew Lunn) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 16:57:22 +0200 Subject: [tclug-list] Odd networking on Comcast In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20170903145722.GA4775@lunn.ch> On Sun, Sep 03, 2017 at 08:19:13AM -0500, gregrwm wrote: > On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 7:47 AM, Jon Schewe wrote: > > > I'm trying to debug some issues with my internet connection. I have > > Comcast and the traceroute results are not coming back what I expect. On my > > router my routing table looks like this: > > > > >netstat -rn > > Kernel IP routing table > > Destination Gateway Genmask Flags MSS Window irtt > > Iface > > 0.0.0.0 73.37.164.1 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 > > enp1s10 > > 73.37.164.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.254.0 U 0 0 0 > > enp1s10 > > > > Given that, I expect the first hop in a traceroute to be 73.37.164.1, but > > it's not. > > >traceroute -n 8.8.8.8 > > traceroute to 8.8.8.8 (8.8.8.8), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets > > 1 96.120.48.69 8.890 ms 14.915 ms 15.659 ms > > 2 68.85.168.121 14.833 ms 15.604 ms 15.575 ms > > 3 96.108.188.62 14.502 ms 14.484 ms 14.665 ms > > 4 96.108.188.101 15.455 ms 16.596 ms 16.574 ms > > 5 68.86.94.81 28.011 ms 26.859 ms 26.841 ms > > 6 68.86.85.158 24.289 ms 19.757 ms 22.386 ms > > ... > > > > Can anyone explain what's going on here? > > > > your traceroute addresses starting with 68.85.168.121 identify as comcast > hosts. 96.120.48.69 is also a comcast address is you do a whois for it. Routers have multiple interfaces, and each interface should have an IP address. 73.37.164.1 is the address of one interface on the router. Quite likely, 96.120.48.69 is an address on one of the other interfaces of the router. Andrew From jpschewe at mtu.net Sun Sep 3 10:41:39 2017 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 10:41:39 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Odd networking on Comcast In-Reply-To: <20170903145722.GA4775@lunn.ch> References: <20170903145722.GA4775@lunn.ch> Message-ID: My router is a Linux PC. It is connected directly to the cable modem. So I know which addresses the router has: >ip addr show 1: lo: mtu 65536 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN group defaul t qlen 1 link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00 inet 127.0.0.1/8 scope host lo valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever inet6 ::1/128 scope host valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever 2: enp1s10: mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast state UP group default qlen 1000 link/ether 00:d0:b7:3f:3f:d7 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff inet 73.37.165.179/23 brd 255.255.255.255 scope global enp1s10 valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever inet6 2001:558:6014:3e:a038:4872:4d66:a81/128 scope global valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever inet6 fe80::2d0:b7ff:fe3f:3fd7/64 scope link valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever 3: enp0s7: mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast state UP group default qlen 1000 link/ether 00:23:54:f9:4c:c1 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff inet 192.168.42.2/24 brd 192.168.42.255 scope global enp0s7 valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever inet6 2601:444:47f:c71e::1/64 scope global valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever inet6 fe80::223:54ff:fef9:4cc1/64 scope link valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever Can a cable modem have multiple addresses? I wouldn't think so as it should just be a bridge. On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Andrew Lunn wrote: > On Sun, Sep 03, 2017 at 08:19:13AM -0500, gregrwm wrote: > > On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 7:47 AM, Jon Schewe wrote: > > > > > I'm trying to debug some issues with my internet connection. I have > > > Comcast and the traceroute results are not coming back what I expect. > On my > > > router my routing table looks like this: > > > > > > >netstat -rn > > > Kernel IP routing table > > > Destination Gateway Genmask Flags MSS Window > irtt > > > Iface > > > 0.0.0.0 73.37.164.1 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 > 0 > > > enp1s10 > > > 73.37.164.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.254.0 U 0 0 > 0 > > > enp1s10 > > > > > > Given that, I expect the first hop in a traceroute to be 73.37.164.1, > but > > > it's not. > > > >traceroute -n 8.8.8.8 > > > traceroute to 8.8.8.8 (8.8.8.8), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets > > > 1 96.120.48.69 8.890 ms 14.915 ms 15.659 ms > > > 2 68.85.168.121 14.833 ms 15.604 ms 15.575 ms > > > 3 96.108.188.62 14.502 ms 14.484 ms 14.665 ms > > > 4 96.108.188.101 15.455 ms 16.596 ms 16.574 ms > > > 5 68.86.94.81 28.011 ms 26.859 ms 26.841 ms > > > 6 68.86.85.158 24.289 ms 19.757 ms 22.386 ms > > > ... > > > > > > Can anyone explain what's going on here? > > > > > > > your traceroute addresses starting with 68.85.168.121 identify as comcast > > hosts. > > 96.120.48.69 is also a comcast address is you do a whois for it. > > Routers have multiple interfaces, and each interface should have an IP > address. 73.37.164.1 is the address of one interface on the > router. Quite likely, 96.120.48.69 is an address on one of the other > interfaces of the router. > > Andrew > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- http://mtu.net/~jpschewe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Sun Sep 3 15:32:02 2017 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 15:32:02 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Odd networking on Comcast Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Andrew Lunn wrote: > Routers have multiple interfaces, and each interface should have an IP > address. 73.37.164.1 is the address of one interface on the > router. Quite likely, 96.120.48.69 is an address on one of the other > interfaces of the router. On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 10:07 AM, Justin Krejci wrote: > Routers have multiple addresses, typically at least 3 if not more: one > facing end users, one facing upstream and a loop back address. Some network > operators choose to use a loop back address for traffic replies in things > such as traceroutes. > would you expect netstat -rn to report only one, more, or all? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at lunn.ch Sun Sep 3 17:16:37 2017 From: andrew at lunn.ch (Andrew Lunn) Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2017 00:16:37 +0200 Subject: [tclug-list] Odd networking on Comcast In-Reply-To: References: <20170903145722.GA4775@lunn.ch> Message-ID: <20170903221637.GB4775@lunn.ch> On Sun, Sep 03, 2017 at 10:41:39AM -0500, Jon Schewe wrote: > My router is a Linux PC. It is connected directly to the cable modem. So I > know which addresses the router has: > >ip addr show > 1: lo: mtu 65536 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN group > defaul > t qlen 1 > link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00 > inet 127.0.0.1/8 scope host lo > valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever > inet6 ::1/128 scope host > > valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever > 2: enp1s10: mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast > state UP > group default qlen 1000 > link/ether 00:d0:b7:3f:3f:d7 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff > inet 73.37.165.179/23 brd 255.255.255.255 scope global enp1s10 > valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever > inet6 2001:558:6014:3e:a038:4872:4d66:a81/128 scope global > valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever > inet6 fe80::2d0:b7ff:fe3f:3fd7/64 scope link > valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever You have you default route pointing to 73.37.165.179. That is part of the 73.37.165.179/23 subnet. So 73.37.165.179 is what is replying to your traceroute. That gateway probably has 96.120.48.69 on one if its other interfaces, the interface which connects towards Comcasts core network. It is allowed to use any of its global scope IP addresses to send back the reply to your traceroute. Andrew From sraun at fireopal.org Sun Sep 3 22:22:21 2017 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 22:22:21 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Cell Phone Repair In-Reply-To: <20170901124319.GA25340@fireopal.org> References: <20170901124319.GA25340@fireopal.org> Message-ID: <20170904032221.GB1942@fireopal.org> On Fri, Sep 01, 2017 at 07:43:19AM -0500, Scott Raun wrote: > I dropped my LG G3 one too many times - the touch screen is now only > kind-of responding to very heavy touches. My diagnosis is that I > either need my existing screen remounted or replaced. > > Anyone have local repair shops to recommend or dis-recommend? And my diagnosis was wrong. I ended up at ubreakifix in Richfield. They did a free diagnostic, and determined I have a motherboard fault. They tried a different battery (the old one has been swelling), and observed the same thing I did - screen not responding to taps, kind of responding to very heavy pushes. They tried at least two different known-good digitizer/screen units - they both had the same problem. I'll be charging it enough to turn it on and plug it into my computer to pull data, then I'm declaring it junk. Anyone want an LG G3 for parts? -- Scott Raun sraun at fireopal.org From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Tue Sep 5 18:19:50 2017 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2017 18:19:50 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? Message-ID: what does VIRT 3736704 firefox mean? with only 63688 swap used, and only 2g ram available, where exactly would firefox have that 3.7g? does that perchance include nearly 2g of memory "requested but not allocated" or something like that? top - 17:52:35 up 10:29, 5 users, load average: 0.21, 0.18, 0.23 > Tasks: 164 total, 1 running, 163 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie > %Cpu0 : 3.3 us, 0.3 sy, 0.0 ni, 96.3 id, 0.0 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, > 0.0 st > %Cpu1 : 3.7 us, 0.3 sy, 0.0 ni, 96.0 id, 0.0 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, > 0.0 st > KiB Mem : 2003420 total, 119212 free, 1431256 used, 452952 buff/cache > KiB Swap: 1953120 total, 1889432 free, 63688 used. 320280 avail Mem > > PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND > 1339 g 20 0 3736704 1.379g 116880 S 6.0 72.2 95:50.84 firefox > 863 root 20 0 306200 79544 68220 S 0.3 4.0 4:31.55 Xorg > 1521 g 9 -11 488056 6768 4472 S 0.3 0.3 3:27.73 > pulseaudio -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Tue Sep 5 18:49:24 2017 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2017 18:49:24 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Virt includes the sizes of all binaries, libraries, memory, and swap. On Sep 5, 2017 6:28 PM, "gregrwm" wrote: > what does VIRT 3736704 firefox mean? with only 63688 swap used, and only > 2g ram available, where exactly would firefox have that 3.7g? does that > perchance include nearly 2g of memory "requested but not allocated" or > something like that? > > top - 17:52:35 up 10:29, 5 users, load average: 0.21, 0.18, 0.23 >> Tasks: 164 total, 1 running, 163 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie >> %Cpu0 : 3.3 us, 0.3 sy, 0.0 ni, 96.3 id, 0.0 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, >> 0.0 st >> %Cpu1 : 3.7 us, 0.3 sy, 0.0 ni, 96.0 id, 0.0 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, >> 0.0 st >> KiB Mem : 2003420 total, 119212 free, 1431256 used, 452952 >> buff/cache >> KiB Swap: 1953120 total, 1889432 free, 63688 used. 320280 avail >> Mem >> >> PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ >> COMMAND >> 1339 g 20 0 3736704 1.379g 116880 S 6.0 72.2 95:50.84 >> firefox >> 863 root 20 0 306200 79544 68220 S 0.3 4.0 4:31.55 Xorg >> 1521 g 9 -11 488056 6768 4472 S 0.3 0.3 3:27.73 >> pulseaudio > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Tue Sep 5 19:30:07 2017 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2017 19:30:07 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? Message-ID: ah, nearly 2g of binary&libraries, yep that figures, ty. On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 6:49 PM, Jeff Chapin wrote: > Virt includes the sizes of all binaries, libraries, memory, and swap. > > > On Sep 5, 2017 6:28 PM, "gregrwm" wrote: > >> what does VIRT 3736704 firefox mean? with only 63688 swap used, and >> only 2g ram available, where exactly would firefox have that 3.7g? does >> that perchance include nearly 2g of memory "requested but not allocated" or >> something like that? >> >> top - 17:52:35 up 10:29, 5 users, load average: 0.21, 0.18, 0.23 >>> Tasks: 164 total, 1 running, 163 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie >>> %Cpu0 : 3.3 us, 0.3 sy, 0.0 ni, 96.3 id, 0.0 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, >>> 0.0 st >>> %Cpu1 : 3.7 us, 0.3 sy, 0.0 ni, 96.0 id, 0.0 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, >>> 0.0 st >>> KiB Mem : 2003420 total, 119212 free, 1431256 used, 452952 >>> buff/cache >>> KiB Swap: 1953120 total, 1889432 free, 63688 used. 320280 avail >>> Mem >>> >>> PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ >>> COMMAND >>> 1339 g 20 0 3736704 1.379g 116880 S 6.0 72.2 95:50.84 >>> firefox >>> 863 root 20 0 306200 79544 68220 S 0.3 4.0 4:31.55 Xorg >>> 1521 g 9 -11 488056 6768 4472 S 0.3 0.3 3:27.73 >>> pulseaudio >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From PJ.world at hotmail.com Thu Sep 7 03:56:51 2017 From: PJ.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2017 08:56:51 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: a. What version of 'firefox' are you using? b. What operating systemd :{ are you using? ....zzz ________________________________ From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org on behalf of Jeff Chapin Sent: Tuesday, September 5, 2017 6:49 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? Virt includes the sizes of all binaries, libraries, memory, and swap. On Sep 5, 2017 6:28 PM, "gregrwm" > wrote: what does VIRT 3736704 firefox mean? with only 63688 swap used, and only 2g ram available, where exactly would firefox have that 3.7g? does that perchance include nearly 2g of memory "requested but not allocated" or something like that? top - 17:52:35 up 10:29, 5 users, load average: 0.21, 0.18, 0.23 Tasks: 164 total, 1 running, 163 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie %Cpu0 : 3.3 us, 0.3 sy, 0.0 ni, 96.3 id, 0.0 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, 0.0 st %Cpu1 : 3.7 us, 0.3 sy, 0.0 ni, 96.0 id, 0.0 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, 0.0 st KiB Mem : 2003420 total, 119212 free, 1431256 used, 452952 buff/cache KiB Swap: 1953120 total, 1889432 free, 63688 used. 320280 avail Mem PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND 1339 g 20 0 3736704 1.379g 116880 S 6.0 72.2 95:50.84 firefox 863 root 20 0 306200 79544 68220 S 0.3 4.0 4:31.55 Xorg 1521 g 9 -11 488056 6768 4472 S 0.3 0.3 3:27.73 pulseaudio _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Sat Sep 9 10:10:50 2017 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2017 10:10:50 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? Message-ID: > > a. What version of 'firefox' are you using? > 55.0.2 (64-bit) > b. What operating systemd :{ are you using? > Ubuntu 16.04.3 LTS -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marc at e-skinner.net Sun Sep 10 16:17:31 2017 From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2017 16:17:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Fall clean out Message-ID: I have a bunch of SATA 400gb and 500gb drives looking for new homes. Let me know if you interested. Ping me off-list. Thanks! From eng at pinenet.com Wed Sep 13 11:46:31 2017 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:46:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Giant security hole? Message-ID: <74e38d4d-ce63-b39c-7065-f8652989b8d8@pinenet.com> As I play around backing up, upgrading, and what-not, I use not-so-hotswappable hard disk drives. Sometimes I goof up and have a bad /etc/fstab file and the system will hang at boot. In older distros there were some instructions to boot to root and use "mc" to edit /etc/fstab. This newer opensuse distro had me stumped how to just get the filesystem going. So I tried the Fedora Live DVD and booted to DVD, mounted the boot hard drive in KDE "dolphin" file manager, opened the KDE editor "kwrite," edited and saved the system file /etc/fstab, and rebooted the opensuse hard drive smooth as silk. I might be wrong, but these Linux Live DVDs seem to open a giant security hole. From tclug at freakzilla.com Wed Sep 13 12:10:14 2017 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Clug) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 12:10:14 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Giant security hole? In-Reply-To: <74e38d4d-ce63-b39c-7065-f8652989b8d8@pinenet.com> References: <74e38d4d-ce63-b39c-7065-f8652989b8d8@pinenet.com> Message-ID: The thing is, if someone has physical access to your machine, they've pretty much bypassed 99% of any security measures you have. This is not new and not unknown; most people simply ignore that because who's going to go into your house with a USB stick just to boot your computer? That said, there are many ways to block this. You can have a boot password right in the BIOS. Then nobody can boot your machine. You can also block booting from CD or USB in the BIOS and put a password on the BIOS setup. Course, that means someone can just steal your harddrive and plug that into another computer. This is where full-disk ecryption comes in. If that's too much for you, most Linux distros will let you encrypt your homedir. On Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Rick Engebretson wrote: > As I play around backing up, upgrading, and what-not, I use > not-so-hotswappable hard disk drives. Sometimes I goof up and have a bad > /etc/fstab file and the system will hang at boot. In older distros there were > some instructions to boot to root and use "mc" to edit /etc/fstab. This newer > opensuse distro had me stumped how to just get the filesystem going. > > So I tried the Fedora Live DVD and booted to DVD, mounted the boot hard drive > in KDE "dolphin" file manager, opened the KDE editor "kwrite," edited and > saved the system file /etc/fstab, and rebooted the opensuse hard drive smooth > as silk. > > I might be wrong, but these Linux Live DVDs seem to open a giant security > hole. > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From eng at pinenet.com Wed Sep 13 13:20:15 2017 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 13:20:15 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Giant security hole? In-Reply-To: References: <74e38d4d-ce63-b39c-7065-f8652989b8d8@pinenet.com> Message-ID: <571274ea-3d1a-b36e-8970-2fa3bd69d414@pinenet.com> No doubt you are right. But if I can bore you with other experiences, and declare "if you don't know where trouble can find you ... it will." Many years ago my 3 young daughters had 2 young sisters over on a summer day. I did my outside dirt farm work while trusting them with freedom of the house. Some time later I noticed our camera film was used up and took it in for development at a photomat. The lady at the counter gave me the whatfor and I never did see what was on those pictures. They put people in jail and on the news for that. Same out here in the country. You better know nobody is growing pot on your property, or you get a visit from an unfriendly sheriff. If it's that easy to quickly change your Linux friend, I'm just glad to know it. Clug wrote: > The thing is, if someone has physical access to your machine, they've > pretty much bypassed 99% of any security measures you have. This is not > new and not unknown; most people simply ignore that because who's going > to go into your house with a USB stick just to boot your computer? > > That said, there are many ways to block this. You can have a boot > password right in the BIOS. Then nobody can boot your machine. You can > also block booting from CD or USB in the BIOS and put a password on the > BIOS setup. > > Course, that means someone can just steal your harddrive and plug that > into another computer. This is where full-disk ecryption comes in. > > If that's too much for you, most Linux distros will let you encrypt your > homedir. > > > > On Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Rick Engebretson wrote: > >> As I play around backing up, upgrading, and what-not, I use >> not-so-hotswappable hard disk drives. Sometimes I goof up and have a >> bad /etc/fstab file and the system will hang at boot. In older distros >> there were some instructions to boot to root and use "mc" to edit >> /etc/fstab. This newer opensuse distro had me stumped how to just get >> the filesystem going. >> >> So I tried the Fedora Live DVD and booted to DVD, mounted the boot >> hard drive in KDE "dolphin" file manager, opened the KDE editor >> "kwrite," edited and saved the system file /etc/fstab, and rebooted >> the opensuse hard drive smooth as silk. >> >> I might be wrong, but these Linux Live DVDs seem to open a giant >> security hole. >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From tclug at freakzilla.com Wed Sep 13 17:12:35 2017 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Clug) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 17:12:35 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Giant security hole? In-Reply-To: <571274ea-3d1a-b36e-8970-2fa3bd69d414@pinenet.com> References: <74e38d4d-ce63-b39c-7065-f8652989b8d8@pinenet.com> <571274ea-3d1a-b36e-8970-2fa3bd69d414@pinenet.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Rick Engebretson wrote: > No doubt you are right. But if I can bore you with other experiences, and > declare "if you don't know where trouble can find you ... it will." Yeah, except every sysadmin /does/ know about this avenue of trouble. We've been dealing with it since there have been sysadmins. From rhayman at pureice.com Wed Sep 13 20:33:20 2017 From: rhayman at pureice.com (r hayman) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 20:33:20 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Giant security hole? In-Reply-To: References: <74e38d4d-ce63-b39c-7065-f8652989b8d8@pinenet.com> Message-ID: <1505352800.3180.17.camel@pureice.com> True Story Give an untrusted person physical access to a machine and you're pwned. That's been the story for decades. Modern enhancements make it more difficult but all bets are off when a bad person has physical access to the hardware.? Even if they don't actually obtain access to the unencrypted data on the hardware, your recovery is only as good to when you last had a good backup if you end up with missing hardware. Misconfigure the VM or the container or access to your platform and physical access to the hardware takes on a new meaning. If I can create a container on your hardware, I may have physical access to your hardware. See?https://blog.jessfraz.com/post/docker-containers-on-the-desktop/ Specifically look at #7 Gparted Modern technologies have opened new vectors and closed old vectors for pwning your stuff. Stay vigilant. On Wed, 2017-09-13 at 12:10 -0500, Clug wrote: > The thing is, if someone has physical access to your machine, > they've? > pretty much bypassed 99% of any security measures you have. This is > not? > new and not unknown; most people simply ignore that because who's > going to? > go into your house with a USB stick just to boot your computer? > > That said, there are many ways to block this. You can have a boot > password? > right in the BIOS. Then nobody can boot your machine. You can also > block? > booting from CD or USB in the BIOS and put a password on the BIOS > setup. > > Course, that means someone can just steal your harddrive and plug > that? > into another computer. This is where full-disk ecryption comes in. > > If that's too much for you, most Linux distros will let you encrypt > your? > homedir. > > > > On Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Rick Engebretson wrote: > > > > > As I play around backing up, upgrading, and what-not, I use? > > not-so-hotswappable hard disk drives. Sometimes I goof up and have > > a bad? > > /etc/fstab file and the system will hang at boot. In older distros > > there were? > > some instructions to boot to root and use "mc" to edit /etc/fstab. > > This newer? > > opensuse distro had me stumped how to just get the filesystem > > going. > > > > So I tried the Fedora Live DVD and booted to DVD, mounted the boot > > hard drive? > > in KDE "dolphin" file manager, opened the KDE editor "kwrite," > > edited and? > > saved the system file /etc/fstab, and rebooted the opensuse hard > > drive smooth? > > as silk. > > > > I might be wrong, but these Linux Live DVDs seem to open a giant > > security? > > hole. > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marc at e-skinner.net Thu Sep 14 08:33:12 2017 From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 08:33:12 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Giant security hole? In-Reply-To: <1505352800.3180.17.camel@pureice.com> References: <74e38d4d-ce63-b39c-7065-f8652989b8d8@pinenet.com> <1505352800.3180.17.camel@pureice.com> Message-ID: <289195d6-a1c3-bff8-d2dc-364109b09b52@e-skinner.net> LUKS disk encryption is your friend. Very easy to setup these days. On 09/13/2017 08:33 PM, r hayman wrote: > True Story > > Give an untrusted person physical access to a machine and you're pwned. > > That's been the story for decades. Modern enhancements make it more > difficult but all bets are off when a bad person has physical access to > the hardware. > > Even if they don't actually obtain access to the unencrypted data on the > hardware, your recovery is only as good to when you last had a good > backup if you end up with missing hardware. > > Misconfigure the VM or the container or access to your platform and > physical access to the hardware takes on a new meaning. > > If I can create a container on your hardware, I may have physical access > to your hardware. > See https://blog.jessfraz.com/post/docker-containers-on-the-desktop/ > Specifically look at #7 Gparted > > Modern technologies have opened new vectors and closed old vectors for > pwning your stuff. > > Stay vigilant. > > > On Wed, 2017-09-13 at 12:10 -0500, Clug wrote: >> The thing is, if someone has physical access to your machine, they've >> pretty much bypassed 99% of any security measures you have. This is not >> new and not unknown; most people simply ignore that because who's going to >> go into your house with a USB stick just to boot your computer? >> >> That said, there are many ways to block this. You can have a boot password >> right in the BIOS. Then nobody can boot your machine. You can also block >> booting from CD or USB in the BIOS and put a password on the BIOS setup. >> >> Course, that means someone can just steal your harddrive and plug that >> into another computer. This is where full-disk ecryption comes in. >> >> If that's too much for you, most Linux distros will let you encrypt your >> homedir. >> >> >> >> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Rick Engebretson wrote: >> >>> As I play around backing up, upgrading, and what-not, I use >>> not-so-hotswappable hard disk drives. Sometimes I goof up and have a >>> bad /etc/fstab file and the system will hang at boot. In older >>> distros there were some instructions to boot to root and use "mc" to >>> edit /etc/fstab. This newer opensuse distro had me stumped how to >>> just get the filesystem going. So I tried the Fedora Live DVD and >>> booted to DVD, mounted the boot hard drive in KDE "dolphin" file >>> manager, opened the KDE editor "kwrite," edited and saved the system >>> file /etc/fstab, and rebooted the opensuse hard drive smooth as silk. >>> I might be wrong, but these Linux Live DVDs seem to open a giant >>> security hole. _______________________________________________ TCLUG >>> Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From eng at pinenet.com Thu Sep 14 10:17:23 2017 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 10:17:23 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Giant security hole? In-Reply-To: <289195d6-a1c3-bff8-d2dc-364109b09b52@e-skinner.net> References: <74e38d4d-ce63-b39c-7065-f8652989b8d8@pinenet.com> <1505352800.3180.17.camel@pureice.com> <289195d6-a1c3-bff8-d2dc-364109b09b52@e-skinner.net> Message-ID: <9dbcb237-7e5f-1328-0bef-9c91ca91a1a1@pinenet.com> All informative and interesting, and way over my head. But very important. By coincidence my next email was from my credit card company titled "About the Equifax breach." I don't know who Equifax is, in fact I don't really know how to use a credit card (mine has a chip). At the local store the local newspaper had an article about counterfeit cash, and the store checks all their bills. Personally, I think about the only real economic growth since 1980 is a result of computer technology. Without smart industry, energy, agriculture, health care, communications, transportation we would be in trouble. So maintaining skilled oversight will not be trivial. Marc Skinner wrote: > LUKS disk encryption is your friend. Very easy to setup these days. > > > On 09/13/2017 08:33 PM, r hayman wrote: >> True Story >> >> Give an untrusted person physical access to a machine and you're pwned. >> >> That's been the story for decades. Modern enhancements make it more >> difficult but all bets are off when a bad person has physical access >> to the hardware. >> >> Even if they don't actually obtain access to the unencrypted data on >> the hardware, your recovery is only as good to when you last had a >> good backup if you end up with missing hardware. >> >> Misconfigure the VM or the container or access to your platform and >> physical access to the hardware takes on a new meaning. >> >> If I can create a container on your hardware, I may have physical >> access to your hardware. >> See https://blog.jessfraz.com/post/docker-containers-on-the-desktop/ >> Specifically look at #7 Gparted >> >> Modern technologies have opened new vectors and closed old vectors for >> pwning your stuff. >> >> Stay vigilant. >> >> >> On Wed, 2017-09-13 at 12:10 -0500, Clug wrote: >>> The thing is, if someone has physical access to your machine, they've >>> pretty much bypassed 99% of any security measures you have. This is not >>> new and not unknown; most people simply ignore that because who's >>> going to >>> go into your house with a USB stick just to boot your computer? >>> >>> That said, there are many ways to block this. You can have a boot >>> password >>> right in the BIOS. Then nobody can boot your machine. You can also block >>> booting from CD or USB in the BIOS and put a password on the BIOS setup. >>> >>> Course, that means someone can just steal your harddrive and plug that >>> into another computer. This is where full-disk ecryption comes in. >>> >>> If that's too much for you, most Linux distros will let you encrypt your >>> homedir. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Rick Engebretson wrote: >>> >>>> As I play around backing up, upgrading, and what-not, I use >>>> not-so-hotswappable hard disk drives. Sometimes I goof up and have a >>>> bad /etc/fstab file and the system will hang at boot. In older >>>> distros there were some instructions to boot to root and use "mc" to >>>> edit /etc/fstab. This newer opensuse distro had me stumped how to >>>> just get the filesystem going. So I tried the Fedora Live DVD and >>>> booted to DVD, mounted the boot hard drive in KDE "dolphin" file >>>> manager, opened the KDE editor "kwrite," edited and saved the system >>>> file /etc/fstab, and rebooted the opensuse hard drive smooth as >>>> silk. I might be wrong, but these Linux Live DVDs seem to open a >>>> giant security hole. _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From iznogoud at nobelware.com Sun Sep 17 15:00:21 2017 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2017 20:00:21 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Giant security hole? In-Reply-To: <9dbcb237-7e5f-1328-0bef-9c91ca91a1a1@pinenet.com> References: <74e38d4d-ce63-b39c-7065-f8652989b8d8@pinenet.com> <1505352800.3180.17.camel@pureice.com> <289195d6-a1c3-bff8-d2dc-364109b09b52@e-skinner.net> <9dbcb237-7e5f-1328-0bef-9c91ca91a1a1@pinenet.com> Message-ID: <20170917200021.GA7898@nobelware.com> Regarding security in general, it is very hard to make everything bulletproof. It either costs too much to do or becomes too inconvenient. Either way, there is a price to pay and those who are willing to pay it enjoy the most security. (It is quite possible to make credit cards secure, but it costs to much to do, and I am certain the "math" has been done by actuaries to show that the cost of tolerating problems is lower than the cost of a bulletproof system. I could be wrong.) On Linux, you want "crypto" and it is mainly through LUKS and the mapper. I use this and I am a strong advocate of it. At the very core of security lies the user... Whatever lives outside of the LUKS "container" is not to be trusted. I can elaborate to a state of nausea, but I will spare you. At the core of what I do are Linux LUKS-encrypted containers. They are partitions that have been turned into LUKS containers (not to be confused with containers that jail processes, like lxc/docker). I keep the home directories in a LUKS partition. I manually bring them up ('cruptsetup luksOpen /dev/sda2 CRYPTFS') and mount them ('mount /dev/mapper/CRYPTFS /home') when the system starts up. I do a very similar thing with backups. This method offers protection from anyone who can have physical access to your system, say the FBI raiding and taking your hardware with them, or a burglary. You want to use the crypto. From iznogoud at nobelware.com Sun Sep 17 15:09:34 2017 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2017 20:09:34 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20170917200934.GB7898@nobelware.com> I use Firefox. It sucks. I keep using it and it keeps sucking and I keep using it... I trust not the google product, but it does work well. Firefox seems happy when it has a lot of memory. All memory in Linux is virtual from the perspective of a process. But unless you access it, it is NOT "mapped" by the kernel. Even if it is mapped, if it is in a page that is not accessed, it _may_ be "paged" in the swap. In that sense, Linux gives you a lot of memory if you can tolerate the switching time from process to process when one of those processes has been "paged" to swap. "Paged" comes from the "pages of memory" (about 4k) that is the minimum chunk the hardware accesses from the RAM at any one time. I have no swap partitions. For what I do, 8 GB or so are fine on the desktop to do everything. I advise people to not use swap unless they have to. When a process dies (is killed by the kernel) due to lack of memory, turn on swap and retry. From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Sun Sep 17 15:50:04 2017 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2017 15:50:04 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Giant security hole? Message-ID: > > say the FBI > or the NSA.. with the compute power available to them today it'll take, what, maybe 3 days for them to break in to your crypt? -- this concludes test 42 of big bang inflation dynamics. in the advent of an actual universe, further instructions will be provided. 000000000000000000000042 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nassarmu at gmail.com Sun Sep 17 21:04:23 2017 From: nassarmu at gmail.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2017 21:04:23 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Giant security hole? In-Reply-To: <74e38d4d-ce63-b39c-7065-f8652989b8d8@pinenet.com> References: <74e38d4d-ce63-b39c-7065-f8652989b8d8@pinenet.com> Message-ID: Heh, you don't even need a live CD, just interrupt grub, edit boot line and add init=/bin/bash and boot from there. This is not a bug, and here is how you can prevent it from being exploited 1. Full disk encryption, which is usually sufficient on its own but the next two are good too. 2. Grub password to disallow changing boot parameters 3. Bios password to disallow changing boot order 4. If fde is not an option then at least use dmcrypt, encfs or ecryptfs On Sep 13, 2017 11:46, "Rick Engebretson" wrote: > As I play around backing up, upgrading, and what-not, I use > not-so-hotswappable hard disk drives. Sometimes I goof up and have a bad > /etc/fstab file and the system will hang at boot. In older distros there > were some instructions to boot to root and use "mc" to edit /etc/fstab. > This newer opensuse distro had me stumped how to just get the filesystem > going. > > So I tried the Fedora Live DVD and booted to DVD, mounted the boot hard > drive in KDE "dolphin" file manager, opened the KDE editor "kwrite," edited > and saved the system file /etc/fstab, and rebooted the opensuse hard drive > smooth as silk. > > I might be wrong, but these Linux Live DVDs seem to open a giant security > hole. > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sfertch at gmail.com Mon Sep 18 03:56:54 2017 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2017 03:56:54 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Giant security hole? In-Reply-To: References: <74e38d4d-ce63-b39c-7065-f8652989b8d8@pinenet.com> Message-ID: Let's go one step further and prevent either a malicious, or "accidental" reboot by disabling the Ctrl-Alt-Del trap sequence. Could never understand why the default action is to reboot. Or, more importantly, why this hasn't been disabled yet via upstream. -Shawn On Sun, Sep 17, 2017 at 9:04 PM, Munir Nassar wrote: > Heh, you don't even need a live CD, just interrupt grub, edit boot line and > add init=/bin/bash and boot from there. > > This is not a bug, and here is how you can prevent it from being exploited > > 1. Full disk encryption, which is usually sufficient on its own but the next > two are good too. > 2. Grub password to disallow changing boot parameters > 3. Bios password to disallow changing boot order > 4. If fde is not an option then at least use dmcrypt, encfs or ecryptfs > > On Sep 13, 2017 11:46, "Rick Engebretson" wrote: >> >> As I play around backing up, upgrading, and what-not, I use >> not-so-hotswappable hard disk drives. Sometimes I goof up and have a bad >> /etc/fstab file and the system will hang at boot. In older distros there >> were some instructions to boot to root and use "mc" to edit /etc/fstab. This >> newer opensuse distro had me stumped how to just get the filesystem going. >> >> So I tried the Fedora Live DVD and booted to DVD, mounted the boot hard >> drive in KDE "dolphin" file manager, opened the KDE editor "kwrite," edited >> and saved the system file /etc/fstab, and rebooted the opensuse hard drive >> smooth as silk. >> >> I might be wrong, but these Linux Live DVDs seem to open a giant security >> hole. >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From iznogoud at nobelware.com Mon Sep 18 08:52:17 2017 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2017 13:52:17 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Giant security hole? In-Reply-To: References: <74e38d4d-ce63-b39c-7065-f8652989b8d8@pinenet.com> Message-ID: <20170918135217.GA14748@nobelware.com> > > or the NSA.. with the compute power available to them today it'll take, > what, maybe 3 days for them to break in to your crypt? > Yes. I am sure they have streamlined this process as much as possible. It was said about 5 years ago that when it comes to the NSA we no longer measure the "time" that it takes to break it but the "amount of money" that they are willing to put after your data. If my data costs to them $1M, I am sure they will put that time and resources into the task. But they, sure as Hell, not going to get to them for free! ENCRYPT EVERYTHING! > > Heh, you don't even need a live CD, just interrupt grub, edit boot line and > add init=/bin/bash and boot from there. > I have an entry in GRUB that s just that, for quick and dirty booting. That is why I mount dm-crypt containers manually. I should also say, I sit at the console when I mount those containers... every time. From iznogoud at nobelware.com Mon Sep 18 08:55:21 2017 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2017 13:55:21 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Giant security hole? In-Reply-To: References: <74e38d4d-ce63-b39c-7065-f8652989b8d8@pinenet.com> Message-ID: <20170918135521.GB14748@nobelware.com> > > Let's go one step further and prevent either a malicious, or > "accidental" reboot by disabling the Ctrl-Alt-Del trap sequence. > > Could never understand why the default action is to reboot. Or, more > importantly, why this hasn't been disabled yet via upstream. > Let me go ahead and finish this up for Shawn; edit the initialization table ('vi /etc/inittab') to disable it. From sfertch at gmail.com Mon Sep 18 10:57:37 2017 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2017 10:57:37 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Giant security hole? In-Reply-To: <20170918135521.GB14748@nobelware.com> References: <74e38d4d-ce63-b39c-7065-f8652989b8d8@pinenet.com> <20170918135521.GB14748@nobelware.com> Message-ID: On Sep 18, 2017 08:55, "Iznogoud" wrote: > > Let's go one step further and prevent either a malicious, or > "accidental" reboot by disabling the Ctrl-Alt-Del trap sequence. > > Could never understand why the default action is to reboot. Or, more > importantly, why this hasn't been disabled yet via upstream. > Let me go ahead and finish this up for Shawn; edit the initialization table ('vi /etc/inittab') to disable it. My point is that this is a known security issue that can easily be fixed via either removing upstream. Or, by the various distro since ,they are done differently based upon distro and service. So, it is not necessarily as simple as commenting it out of the /etc/inittab. Yes, it is up to each admin to know these things. But, why not just disable it and have the option to enable? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From iznogoud at nobelware.com Mon Sep 18 12:13:42 2017 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2017 17:13:42 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Giant security hole? In-Reply-To: References: <74e38d4d-ce63-b39c-7065-f8652989b8d8@pinenet.com> <20170918135521.GB14748@nobelware.com> Message-ID: <20170918171342.GA22013@nobelware.com> Your point was well understood, and what I said about /etc/inittab is the most _standard_ way to do this in Linux (coming from legacy unix OSs). That is why I suggested it. You bring up a good point. Some of the documentation for things like this should probably be offered to users at install time in the form of adding or not adding some information elements in /etc/issue or similar places. I had personally added info items to our supercomputing cluster, but those were primarily for job submission and management commands. The idea is that the info should be tailored to the user (admin or non) and purpose of the system in hand. There may well be some framework that does this outside of manual page pagers. From stevetrapp at comcast.net Mon Sep 18 14:06:09 2017 From: stevetrapp at comcast.net (Steve Trapp) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2017 14:06:09 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? In-Reply-To: <20170917200934.GB7898@nobelware.com> References: <20170917200934.GB7898@nobelware.com> Message-ID: <20170918190609.GA10673@dog.cavelan.local> For GNU/Linux, how do you turn swap off and how do you turn in back on again? On Sun, Sep 17, 2017 at 08:09:34PM +0000, Iznogoud wrote: > I use Firefox. It sucks. I keep using it and it keeps sucking and I keep using > it... I trust not the google product, but it does work well. Firefox seems > happy when it has a lot of memory. > > All memory in Linux is virtual from the perspective of a process. But unless > you access it, it is NOT "mapped" by the kernel. Even if it is mapped, if it > is in a page that is not accessed, it _may_ be "paged" in the swap. In that > sense, Linux gives you a lot of memory if you can tolerate the switching time > from process to process when one of those processes has been "paged" to swap. > "Paged" comes from the "pages of memory" (about 4k) that is the minimum chunk > the hardware accesses from the RAM at any one time. > > I have no swap partitions. For what I do, 8 GB or so are fine on the desktop > to do everything. I advise people to not use swap unless they have to. When > a process dies (is killed by the kernel) due to lack of memory, turn on swap > and retry. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Name: Steve Trapp Location: Just east of the Missippi River Email-address: stevetrappcomcastnet Homepage: comcast DROPPED ALL HOMEPAGES--Where do I put my PGP public key now? From iznogoud at nobelware.com Mon Sep 18 14:16:16 2017 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2017 19:16:16 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? In-Reply-To: <20170918190609.GA10673@dog.cavelan.local> References: <20170917200934.GB7898@nobelware.com> <20170918190609.GA10673@dog.cavelan.local> Message-ID: <20170918191616.GA26530@nobelware.com> > > For GNU/Linux, how do you turn swap off and how do you turn in back on again? > Here is the top of the manual page: NAME swapon, swapoff - enable/disable devices and files for paging and swap- ping SYNOPSIS /sbin/swapon [-h -V] /sbin/swapon -a [-v] [-e] /sbin/swapon [-v] [-p priority] specialfile ... /sbin/swapon [-s] /sbin/swapoff [-h -V] /sbin/swapoff -a /sbin/swapoff specialfile ... From stevetrapp at comcast.net Mon Sep 18 16:05:31 2017 From: stevetrapp at comcast.net (Steve Trapp) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2017 16:05:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? In-Reply-To: <20170918191616.GA26530@nobelware.com> References: <20170917200934.GB7898@nobelware.com> <20170918190609.GA10673@dog.cavelan.local> <20170918191616.GA26530@nobelware.com> Message-ID: <20170918210509.GA11434@dog.cavelan.local> Aha. I tried 'man swap' but didn't think of 'swapon'. My google search was not very productive, so I am thankful of your information! -Steve On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 07:16:16PM +0000, Iznogoud wrote: > > > > For GNU/Linux, how do you turn swap off and how do you turn in back on again? > > > > Here is the top of the manual page: > > > NAME > swapon, swapoff - enable/disable devices and files for paging and swap- > ping > > SYNOPSIS > /sbin/swapon [-h -V] > /sbin/swapon -a [-v] [-e] > /sbin/swapon [-v] [-p priority] specialfile ... > /sbin/swapon [-s] > /sbin/swapoff [-h -V] > /sbin/swapoff -a > /sbin/swapoff specialfile ... > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Name: Steve Trapp Location: Just east of the Missippi River Email-address: stevetrappcomcastnet Homepage: comcast DROPPED ALL HOMEPAGES--Where do I put my PGP public key now? From chapinjeff at gmail.com Mon Sep 18 16:07:13 2017 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2017 16:07:13 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? In-Reply-To: <20170918210509.GA11434@dog.cavelan.local> References: <20170917200934.GB7898@nobelware.com> <20170918190609.GA10673@dog.cavelan.local> <20170918191616.GA26530@nobelware.com> <20170918210509.GA11434@dog.cavelan.local> Message-ID: I periodically check swap usage, and run: sudo swapoff -a; sudo swapon -a; This will force anything in swap (on disk) back into RAM. Jeff On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 4:05 PM, Steve Trapp wrote: > Aha. I tried 'man swap' but didn't think of 'swapon'. My google search was > not > very productive, so I am thankful of your information! -Steve > > On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 07:16:16PM +0000, Iznogoud wrote: > > > > > > For GNU/Linux, how do you turn swap off and how do you turn in back on > again? > > > > > > > Here is the top of the manual page: > > > > > > NAME > > swapon, swapoff - enable/disable devices and files for paging and > swap- > > ping > > > > SYNOPSIS > > /sbin/swapon [-h -V] > > /sbin/swapon -a [-v] [-e] > > /sbin/swapon [-v] [-p priority] specialfile ... > > /sbin/swapon [-s] > > /sbin/swapoff [-h -V] > > /sbin/swapoff -a > > /sbin/swapoff specialfile ... > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- > Name: Steve Trapp > Location: Just east of the Missippi River > Email-address: stevetrappcomcastnet > Homepage: comcast DROPPED ALL HOMEPAGES--Where do I put my PGP public key > now? > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jus at krytosvirus.com Mon Sep 18 16:17:05 2017 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2017 16:17:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? In-Reply-To: References: <20170917200934.GB7898@nobelware.com> <20170918190609.GA10673@dog.cavelan.local> <20170918191616.GA26530@nobelware.com> <20170918210509.GA11434@dog.cavelan.local> Message-ID: <5bbd8ab860cb0f68065bc8240a27568e@krytosvirus.com> Do you check to make sure your existing swap usage and RAM usage combined does not equal a number higher than the amount of total RAM you have on the system? I am guessing flushing swap into RAM when there is not enough RAM available is a bad thing to do. Just curious, why do you clear your swap space like that periodically? If your swap is being used too much, perhaps you either need more RAM or else should maybe turn down your vm.swappiness in sysctl. On 2017-09-18 04:07 PM, Jeff Chapin wrote: > I periodically check swap usage, and run: > > sudo swapoff -a; sudo swapon -a; > > This will force anything in swap (on disk) back into RAM. > > Jeff > > On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 4:05 PM, Steve Trapp wrote: > >> Aha. I tried 'man swap' but didn't think of 'swapon'. My google search was not >> very productive, so I am thankful of your information! -Steve >> >> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 07:16:16PM +0000, Iznogoud wrote: >>>> >>>> For GNU/Linux, how do you turn swap off and how do you turn in back on again? >>>> >>> >>> Here is the top of the manual page: >>> >>> >>> NAME >>> swapon, swapoff - enable/disable devices and files for paging and swap- >>> ping >>> >>> SYNOPSIS >>> /sbin/swapon [-h -V] >>> /sbin/swapon -a [-v] [-e] >>> /sbin/swapon [-v] [-p priority] specialfile ... >>> /sbin/swapon [-s] >>> /sbin/swapoff [-h -V] >>> /sbin/swapoff -a >>> /sbin/swapoff specialfile ... >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list [1] >> -- >> Name: Steve Trapp >> Location: Just east of the Missippi River >> Email-address: stevetrappcomcastnet >> Homepage: comcast DROPPED ALL HOMEPAGES--Where do I put my PGP public key now? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list [1] > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list Links: ------ [1] http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Mon Sep 18 16:26:28 2017 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2017 16:26:28 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? In-Reply-To: <5bbd8ab860cb0f68065bc8240a27568e@krytosvirus.com> References: <20170917200934.GB7898@nobelware.com> <20170918190609.GA10673@dog.cavelan.local> <20170918191616.GA26530@nobelware.com> <20170918210509.GA11434@dog.cavelan.local> <5bbd8ab860cb0f68065bc8240a27568e@krytosvirus.com> Message-ID: Swapoff checks that automatically -- but I usually do it when I notice that I am using a ton of swap, but not all my ram. It may just be an illusion, but it seems that when I have a browser that is starting to act up and slow, this fixes it. On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Justin Krejci wrote: > Do you check to make sure your existing swap usage and RAM usage combined > does not equal a number higher than the amount of total RAM you have on the > system? I am guessing flushing swap into RAM when there is not enough RAM > available is a bad thing to do. > > Just curious, why do you clear your swap space like that periodically? If > your swap is being used too much, perhaps you either need more RAM or else > should maybe turn down your vm.swappiness in sysctl. > > On 2017-09-18 04:07 PM, Jeff Chapin wrote: > > I periodically check swap usage, and run: > > sudo swapoff -a; sudo swapon -a; > > This will force anything in swap (on disk) back into RAM. > > Jeff > > On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 4:05 PM, Steve Trapp > wrote: > >> Aha. I tried 'man swap' but didn't think of 'swapon'. My google search >> was not >> very productive, so I am thankful of your information! -Steve >> >> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 07:16:16PM +0000, Iznogoud wrote: >> > > >> > > For GNU/Linux, how do you turn swap off and how do you turn in back >> on again? >> > > >> > >> > Here is the top of the manual page: >> > >> > >> > NAME >> > swapon, swapoff - enable/disable devices and files for paging >> and swap- >> > ping >> > >> > SYNOPSIS >> > /sbin/swapon [-h -V] >> > /sbin/swapon -a [-v] [-e] >> > /sbin/swapon [-v] [-p priority] specialfile ... >> > /sbin/swapon [-s] >> > /sbin/swapoff [-h -V] >> > /sbin/swapoff -a >> > /sbin/swapoff specialfile ... >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> -- >> Name: Steve Trapp >> Location: Just east of the Missippi River >> Email-address: stevetrappcomcastnet >> Homepage: comcast DROPPED ALL HOMEPAGES--Where do I put my PGP public key >> now? >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From iznogoud at nobelware.com Mon Sep 18 16:35:13 2017 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2017 21:35:13 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? In-Reply-To: References: <20170917200934.GB7898@nobelware.com> <20170918190609.GA10673@dog.cavelan.local> <20170918191616.GA26530@nobelware.com> <20170918210509.GA11434@dog.cavelan.local> <5bbd8ab860cb0f68065bc8240a27568e@krytosvirus.com> Message-ID: <20170918213513.GA31377@nobelware.com> > > Swapoff checks that automatically -- but I usually do it when I notice that > I am using a ton of swap, but not all my ram. It may just be an illusion, > but it seems that when I have a browser that is starting to act up and > slow, this fixes it. > Right. But the danger does exists that you will get a "killed by kernel" if a given process is indeed using too much memory. Then, maybe it is time for more RAM. Maybe swap partitions (or swap files) on SSD drives are a touch better, but nothing like the real thing ("No replacement for displacement" is said about cars.) From iznogoud at nobelware.com Mon Sep 18 16:51:07 2017 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2017 21:51:07 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] WINE 32-bit on 64-bit machines and "multilib OSs" Message-ID: <20170918215107.GA31573@nobelware.com> This is a deep topic and highly convoluted, but I will take a shot at asking here. First some quick Background info. When compiling WINE (http://winhq.com) on a 64-bit machine and also want to build WINE that runs 32-bit applications there are some peculiarities. First there is the running 32-bit windows apps and what one needs to do (the easy part), a summary of which is here: https://askubuntu.com/questions/136714/how-to-force-wine-into-acting-like-32-bit-windows-on-64-bit-ubuntu My primary issue is _compiling_ WINE to do the above, which is much trickier. A summary of the hurdles to jump are here: https://wiki.winehq.org/Building_Wine (look under "Multi-Arch and Multi-lib") The question itself is tricky for the vanilla user: has anybody here turned a non-multi-lib distro to a multi-lib? where there any apparent issues? and has anybody done what I am trying to do? Which distros are multilib when vanilla? As a Slackware user, which does not come multi-lib out of the box, I need to jump some hoops. Thankfully, one of the slack people has apparently streamlined it all for us: https://docs.slackware.com/slackware:multilib And there is also this: http://gnu-linux-slackware.blogspot.com/2013/01/switch-to-multilib-with-32-bit.html Is any Slackware user here who has done this? I am not worried about ruining the system. I dropped a copy of it in a different partition, edited the /etc/fstab and added an entry in grub.conf to boot with root=.... etc. I'd hate to find no issues at first only to find out later, after a full switch, that something has gone wrong. That is why I am asking. Thanks. From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Tue Sep 19 09:55:46 2017 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2017 09:55:46 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? Message-ID: i can corroborate swap slogging and thrashing has long been a problem for both firefox and chromium, my way out has been to merely quit the browser and relaunch, and seethe under my teeth wondering whether to blame the horrible memory management on the kernel, browsers, libraries, or what. on the other hand just a couple days ago i watched in amazement as firefox actually released a ton of swap while i continued browsing. maybe somebody is actually hip and incrementally improving something? On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 4:26 PM, Jeff Chapin wrote: > Swapoff checks that automatically -- but I usually do it when I notice > that I am using a ton of swap, but not all my ram. It may just be an > illusion, but it seems that when I have a browser that is starting to act > up and slow, this fixes it. > > > On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Justin Krejci > wrote: > >> Do you check to make sure your existing swap usage and RAM usage combined >> does not equal a number higher than the amount of total RAM you have on the >> system? I am guessing flushing swap into RAM when there is not enough RAM >> available is a bad thing to do. >> >> Just curious, why do you clear your swap space like that periodically? If >> your swap is being used too much, perhaps you either need more RAM or else >> should maybe turn down your vm.swappiness in sysctl. >> >> On 2017-09-18 04:07 PM, Jeff Chapin wrote: >> >> I periodically check swap usage, and run: >> >> sudo swapoff -a; sudo swapon -a; >> >> This will force anything in swap (on disk) back into RAM. >> >> Jeff >> >> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 4:05 PM, Steve Trapp >> wrote: >> >>> Aha. I tried 'man swap' but didn't think of 'swapon'. My google search >>> was not >>> very productive, so I am thankful of your information! -Steve >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 07:16:16PM +0000, Iznogoud wrote: >>> > > >>> > > For GNU/Linux, how do you turn swap off and how do you turn in back >>> on again? >>> > > >>> > >>> > Here is the top of the manual page: >>> > >>> > >>> > NAME >>> > swapon, swapoff - enable/disable devices and files for paging >>> and swap- >>> > ping >>> > >>> > SYNOPSIS >>> > /sbin/swapon [-h -V] >>> > /sbin/swapon -a [-v] [-e] >>> > /sbin/swapon [-v] [-p priority] specialfile ... >>> > /sbin/swapon [-s] >>> > /sbin/swapoff [-h -V] >>> > /sbin/swapoff -a >>> > /sbin/swapoff specialfile ... >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> -- >>> Name: Steve Trapp >>> Location: Just east of the Missippi River >>> Email-address: stevetrappcomcastnet >>> Homepage: comcast DROPPED ALL HOMEPAGES--Where do I put my PGP public >>> key now? >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Jeff Chapin >> President, CedarLug, retired >> President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" >> President, UNI Scuba Club >> Senator, NISG, retired >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- this concludes test 42 of big bang inflation dynamics. in the advent of an actual universe, further instructions will be provided. 000000000000000000000042 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From iznogoud at nobelware.com Tue Sep 19 10:39:23 2017 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2017 15:39:23 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20170919153923.GA5319@nobelware.com> On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 09:55:46AM -0500, gregrwm wrote: > > i can corroborate swap slogging and thrashing has long been a problem for > both firefox and chromium, my way out has been to merely quit the browser > and relaunch, and seethe under my teeth wondering whether to blame the > horrible memory management on the kernel, browsers, libraries, or what. on > the other hand just a couple days ago i watched in amazement as firefox > actually released a ton of swap while i continued browsing. maybe somebody > is actually hip and incrementally improving something? > Blame not the Linux kernel. Linux's memory management is the best around for a general purpose OS. Users of Windows programs over WINE have noted improved performance and it is simply attributed to the Linux kernel's memory management being stellar. Firefox issues updates all the time, in contrast the the kernel developers. Firefox, and possibly all of the libraries on which it leverages, be it graphics, parsers, etc, are to blame, I am certain. The price to pay is low when having to restart the browser. It is "free software" and I honestly do not know what price I would put on a browser if I were to pay for it. From PJ.world at hotmail.com Wed Sep 20 01:46:39 2017 From: PJ.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 06:46:39 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? In-Reply-To: References: <20170917200934.GB7898@nobelware.com> <20170918190609.GA10673@dog.cavelan.local> <20170918191616.GA26530@nobelware.com> <20170918210509.GA11434@dog.cavelan.local> <5bbd8ab860cb0f68065bc8240a27568e@krytosvirus.com>, Message-ID: He likes it all to be manual. Just like Potter; ....zzz ________________________________ From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org on behalf of Jeff Chapin Sent: Monday, September 18, 2017 4:26 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? Swapoff checks that automatically -- but I usually do it when I notice that I am using a ton of swap, but not all my ram. It may just be an illusion, but it seems that when I have a browser that is starting to act up and slow, this fixes it. On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Justin Krejci > wrote: Do you check to make sure your existing swap usage and RAM usage combined does not equal a number higher than the amount of total RAM you have on the system? I am guessing flushing swap into RAM when there is not enough RAM available is a bad thing to do. Just curious, why do you clear your swap space like that periodically? If your swap is being used too much, perhaps you either need more RAM or else should maybe turn down your vm.swappiness in sysctl. On 2017-09-18 04:07 PM, Jeff Chapin wrote: I periodically check swap usage, and run: sudo swapoff -a; sudo swapon -a; This will force anything in swap (on disk) back into RAM. Jeff On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 4:05 PM, Steve Trapp > wrote: Aha. I tried 'man swap' but didn't think of 'swapon'. My google search was not very productive, so I am thankful of your information! -Steve On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 07:16:16PM +0000, Iznogoud wrote: > > > > For GNU/Linux, how do you turn swap off and how do you turn in back on again? > > > > Here is the top of the manual page: > > > NAME > swapon, swapoff - enable/disable devices and files for paging and swap- > ping > > SYNOPSIS > /sbin/swapon [-h -V] > /sbin/swapon -a [-v] [-e] > /sbin/swapon [-v] [-p priority] specialfile ... > /sbin/swapon [-s] > /sbin/swapoff [-h -V] > /sbin/swapoff -a > /sbin/swapoff specialfile ... > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Name: Steve Trapp Location: Just east of the Missippi River Email-address: stevetrappcomcastnet Homepage: comcast DROPPED ALL HOMEPAGES--Where do I put my PGP public key now? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From iznogoud at nobelware.com Wed Sep 20 10:38:59 2017 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 15:38:59 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] WINE 32-bit on 64-bit machines and "multilib OSs" In-Reply-To: <20170918215107.GA31573@nobelware.com> References: <20170918215107.GA31573@nobelware.com> Message-ID: <20170920153859.GA23373@nobelware.com> For anyone who cares, this is what I had asked in my thread: > > The question itself is tricky for the vanilla user: has anybody here turned a > non-multi-lib distro to a multi-lib? where there any apparent issues? and has > anybody done what I am trying to do? Which distros are multilib when vanilla? > Slackware (my distro of choice) is not multilib when installed 64-bit vanilla. (There are some good reasons for this having to do with avoiding redundancy.) I decided to do two tests. I completed the first and thought I'd report back. Success! I took one of my VirtualBox installs (in a VDI file) and added a new VDI "drive" to it. I "rsync-ed" all of the relevant directories from the root filesystem / to the newly added drive like this: 'rsync -av bin sbin root run var usr dev .... /mnt/tmp' (the /dev/sdb1 is the new VDI and mounted under /mnt/tmp) Then I edited the usual places in /etc/fstab to get the "/" to be atteched to /dev/sdb1 and edited LILO (that is what I used here) to boot from /dev/sda1 as before but point to /dev/sdb1 for the root directory. Nothing new here, and this would make no difference. I essentially replicated the system to a new drive with the expected success. Then, I added the packages from "alien" from Slackware with the "installpkg" installer (what "apt-get" is for Ubuntu) and ran through the appropriate steps. All worked as expected on the 64-bit side and I have no plan to test further (I tested 3rd party dev. software too). I will do the same on my main system and then test 32-bit runtime and code development on that. That is step two. Will report back. So far my impression is "seems too easy" and I want to test further before I commit. I hope you guys find it useful. WINE users may want to monitor this thread. From eng at pinenet.com Wed Sep 20 14:11:51 2017 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 14:11:51 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] WINE 32-bit on 64-bit machines and "multilib OSs" In-Reply-To: <20170920153859.GA23373@nobelware.com> References: <20170918215107.GA31573@nobelware.com> <20170920153859.GA23373@nobelware.com> Message-ID: <0426118c-e734-21ea-07c1-3b955886c2c9@pinenet.com> Just to say I do "care," and I do read it, as other stuff. Learning without commenting out of respect for my ignorance. A relative just got a job with "Codeweavers," a WINE proponent in St. Paul. All I know is lots of need for lots of MSWindows users to tie into Linux somehow. What I told my wife was, "did you ever wonder why your old Windows laptop would have a screen telling you not to turn the power off while it was always upgrading?" Simply thanks for the tutorial. Iznogoud wrote: > For anyone who cares, this is what I had asked in my thread: > >> >> The question itself is tricky for the vanilla user: has anybody here turned a >> non-multi-lib distro to a multi-lib? where there any apparent issues? and has >> anybody done what I am trying to do? Which distros are multilib when vanilla? >> > > Slackware (my distro of choice) is not multilib when installed 64-bit vanilla. > (There are some good reasons for this having to do with avoiding redundancy.) > > I decided to do two tests. I completed the first and thought I'd report back. > > Success! I took one of my VirtualBox installs (in a VDI file) and added a new > VDI "drive" to it. I "rsync-ed" all of the relevant directories from the root > filesystem / to the newly added drive like this: > 'rsync -av bin sbin root run var usr dev .... /mnt/tmp' > (the /dev/sdb1 is the new VDI and mounted under /mnt/tmp) > Then I edited the usual places in /etc/fstab to get the "/" to be atteched to > /dev/sdb1 and edited LILO (that is what I used here) to boot from /dev/sda1 > as before but point to /dev/sdb1 for the root directory. Nothing new here, and > this would make no difference. I essentially replicated the system to a new > drive with the expected success. Then, I added the packages from "alien" from > Slackware with the "installpkg" installer (what "apt-get" is for Ubuntu) and > ran through the appropriate steps. All worked as expected on the 64-bit side > and I have no plan to test further (I tested 3rd party dev. software too). > > I will do the same on my main system and then test 32-bit runtime and code > development on that. That is step two. Will report back. > > So far my impression is "seems too easy" and I want to test further before I > commit. > > I hope you guys find it useful. WINE users may want to monitor this thread. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From iznogoud at nobelware.com Wed Sep 20 15:42:26 2017 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 20:42:26 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] WINE 32-bit on 64-bit machines and "multilib OSs" In-Reply-To: <0426118c-e734-21ea-07c1-3b955886c2c9@pinenet.com> References: <20170918215107.GA31573@nobelware.com> <20170920153859.GA23373@nobelware.com> <0426118c-e734-21ea-07c1-3b955886c2c9@pinenet.com> Message-ID: <20170920204226.GA1923@nobelware.com> You are welcome; glad to shed some light on some things. Codeweavers is a great place to work, I am sure. Jeremy White (founder and possibly CEO) is a nice guy and I have met him. My understanding is that what other companies do not want to do with porting, they delegate (for pay) to them. An example is ImageLine, a company that makes software music sequencers and synthesizers. Their 'de facto" port of "FL Studio" to Linux and Mac is based on the Codeweavers' software "Crossover." They are just off 280 by the UofM campus. (So much good stuff in MN...) With WINE/Crossover, it almost makes no sense to build native Linux applications and simply make them for Windows. This way, one is almost guaranteed that it will run on Windows and Mac effortlessly. From eng at pinenet.com Wed Sep 20 16:55:51 2017 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 16:55:51 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] WINE 32-bit on 64-bit machines and "multilib OSs" In-Reply-To: <20170920204226.GA1923@nobelware.com> References: <20170918215107.GA31573@nobelware.com> <20170920153859.GA23373@nobelware.com> <0426118c-e734-21ea-07c1-3b955886c2c9@pinenet.com> <20170920204226.GA1923@nobelware.com> Message-ID: <89b8e095-fab6-b10e-1fd2-345d9e3874b0@pinenet.com> I do know FreePascal ports to most common OSs, including Windows, Mac, and Linux. I was surprised their "lazarus" GUI IDE has so many downloads per week. You can compile from source to most "target" OSs from code. A ton of switches for the compiler. So I think if you have an algorithm, you can cross compile. Iznogoud wrote: > You are welcome; glad to shed some light on some things. > > Codeweavers is a great place to work, I am sure. Jeremy White (founder and > possibly CEO) is a nice guy and I have met him. My understanding is that what > other companies do not want to do with porting, they delegate (for pay) to > them. An example is ImageLine, a company that makes software music sequencers > and synthesizers. Their 'de facto" port of "FL Studio" to Linux and Mac is > based on the Codeweavers' software "Crossover." They are just off 280 by the > UofM campus. > > (So much good stuff in MN...) > > With WINE/Crossover, it almost makes no sense to build native Linux applications > and simply make them for Windows. This way, one is almost guaranteed that it > will run on Windows and Mac effortlessly. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From chapinjeff at gmail.com Wed Sep 20 18:32:12 2017 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 18:32:12 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? In-Reply-To: References: <20170917200934.GB7898@nobelware.com> <20170918190609.GA10673@dog.cavelan.local> <20170918191616.GA26530@nobelware.com> <20170918210509.GA11434@dog.cavelan.local> <5bbd8ab860cb0f68065bc8240a27568e@krytosvirus.com> Message-ID: .... Dare I ask? On Sep 20, 2017 1:46 AM, "paul g" wrote: > He likes it all to be manual. Just like Potter; > > ....zzz > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > on behalf of Jeff Chapin > *Sent:* Monday, September 18, 2017 4:26 PM > *To:* TCLUG Mailing List > *Subject:* Re: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? > > Swapoff checks that automatically -- but I usually do it when I notice > that I am using a ton of swap, but not all my ram. It may just be an > illusion, but it seems that when I have a browser that is starting to act > up and slow, this fixes it. > > On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Justin Krejci > wrote: > >> Do you check to make sure your existing swap usage and RAM usage combined >> does not equal a number higher than the amount of total RAM you have on the >> system? I am guessing flushing swap into RAM when there is not enough RAM >> available is a bad thing to do. >> >> Just curious, why do you clear your swap space like that periodically? If >> your swap is being used too much, perhaps you either need more RAM or else >> should maybe turn down your vm.swappiness in sysctl. >> >> On 2017-09-18 04:07 PM, Jeff Chapin wrote: >> >> I periodically check swap usage, and run: >> >> sudo swapoff -a; sudo swapon -a; >> >> This will force anything in swap (on disk) back into RAM. >> >> Jeff >> >> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 4:05 PM, Steve Trapp >> wrote: >> >>> Aha. I tried 'man swap' but didn't think of 'swapon'. My google search >>> was not >>> very productive, so I am thankful of your information! -Steve >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 07:16:16PM +0000, Iznogoud wrote: >>> > > >>> > > For GNU/Linux, how do you turn swap off and how do you turn in back >>> on again? >>> > > >>> > >>> > Here is the top of the manual page: >>> > >>> > >>> > NAME >>> > swapon, swapoff - enable/disable devices and files for paging >>> and swap- >>> > ping >>> > >>> > SYNOPSIS >>> > /sbin/swapon [-h -V] >>> > /sbin/swapon -a [-v] [-e] >>> > /sbin/swapon [-v] [-p priority] specialfile ... >>> > /sbin/swapon [-s] >>> > /sbin/swapoff [-h -V] >>> > /sbin/swapoff -a >>> > /sbin/swapoff specialfile ... >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> -- >>> Name: Steve Trapp >>> Location: Just east of the Missippi River >>> Email-address: stevetrappcomcastnet >>> Homepage: comcast DROPPED ALL HOMEPAGES--Where do I put my PGP public >>> key now? >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Jeff Chapin >> President, CedarLug, retired >> President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" >> President, UNI Scuba Club >> Senator, NISG, retired >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From PJ.world at hotmail.com Wed Sep 20 19:34:21 2017 From: PJ.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 00:34:21 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? In-Reply-To: References: <20170917200934.GB7898@nobelware.com> <20170918190609.GA10673@dog.cavelan.local> <20170918191616.GA26530@nobelware.com> <20170918210509.GA11434@dog.cavelan.local> <5bbd8ab860cb0f68065bc8240a27568e@krytosvirus.com> , Message-ID: Mock you're swap. You know who you are. Blub. ....zzz ________________________________ From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org on behalf of Jeff Chapin Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 6:32 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? .... Dare I ask? On Sep 20, 2017 1:46 AM, "paul g" > wrote: He likes it all to be manual. Just like Potter; ....zzz ________________________________ From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > on behalf of Jeff Chapin > Sent: Monday, September 18, 2017 4:26 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? Swapoff checks that automatically -- but I usually do it when I notice that I am using a ton of swap, but not all my ram. It may just be an illusion, but it seems that when I have a browser that is starting to act up and slow, this fixes it. On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Justin Krejci > wrote: Do you check to make sure your existing swap usage and RAM usage combined does not equal a number higher than the amount of total RAM you have on the system? I am guessing flushing swap into RAM when there is not enough RAM available is a bad thing to do. Just curious, why do you clear your swap space like that periodically? If your swap is being used too much, perhaps you either need more RAM or else should maybe turn down your vm.swappiness in sysctl. On 2017-09-18 04:07 PM, Jeff Chapin wrote: I periodically check swap usage, and run: sudo swapoff -a; sudo swapon -a; This will force anything in swap (on disk) back into RAM. Jeff On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 4:05 PM, Steve Trapp > wrote: Aha. I tried 'man swap' but didn't think of 'swapon'. My google search was not very productive, so I am thankful of your information! -Steve On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 07:16:16PM +0000, Iznogoud wrote: > > > > For GNU/Linux, how do you turn swap off and how do you turn in back on again? > > > > Here is the top of the manual page: > > > NAME > swapon, swapoff - enable/disable devices and files for paging and swap- > ping > > SYNOPSIS > /sbin/swapon [-h -V] > /sbin/swapon -a [-v] [-e] > /sbin/swapon [-v] [-p priority] specialfile ... > /sbin/swapon [-s] > /sbin/swapoff [-h -V] > /sbin/swapoff -a > /sbin/swapoff specialfile ... > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Name: Steve Trapp Location: Just east of the Missippi River Email-address: stevetrappcomcastnet Homepage: comcast DROPPED ALL HOMEPAGES--Where do I put my PGP public key now? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Wed Sep 20 19:37:25 2017 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 19:37:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? In-Reply-To: References: <20170917200934.GB7898@nobelware.com> <20170918190609.GA10673@dog.cavelan.local> <20170918191616.GA26530@nobelware.com> <20170918210509.GA11434@dog.cavelan.local> <5bbd8ab860cb0f68065bc8240a27568e@krytosvirus.com> Message-ID: I guess I don't know what I expected. Sorry everyone on the list! On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 7:34 PM, paul g wrote: > Mock you're swap. You know who you are. Blub. > > > ....zzz > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > on behalf of Jeff Chapin > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 20, 2017 6:32 PM > > *To:* TCLUG Mailing List > *Subject:* Re: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? > > .... Dare I ask? > > On Sep 20, 2017 1:46 AM, "paul g" wrote: > >> He likes it all to be manual. Just like Potter; >> >> ....zzz >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org >> on behalf of Jeff Chapin >> *Sent:* Monday, September 18, 2017 4:26 PM >> *To:* TCLUG Mailing List >> *Subject:* Re: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? >> >> Swapoff checks that automatically -- but I usually do it when I notice >> that I am using a ton of swap, but not all my ram. It may just be an >> illusion, but it seems that when I have a browser that is starting to act >> up and slow, this fixes it. >> >> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Justin Krejci >> wrote: >> >>> Do you check to make sure your existing swap usage and RAM usage >>> combined does not equal a number higher than the amount of total RAM you >>> have on the system? I am guessing flushing swap into RAM when there is not >>> enough RAM available is a bad thing to do. >>> >>> Just curious, why do you clear your swap space like that periodically? >>> If your swap is being used too much, perhaps you either need more RAM or >>> else should maybe turn down your vm.swappiness in sysctl. >>> >>> On 2017-09-18 04:07 PM, Jeff Chapin wrote: >>> >>> I periodically check swap usage, and run: >>> >>> sudo swapoff -a; sudo swapon -a; >>> >>> This will force anything in swap (on disk) back into RAM. >>> >>> Jeff >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 4:05 PM, Steve Trapp >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Aha. I tried 'man swap' but didn't think of 'swapon'. My google search >>>> was not >>>> very productive, so I am thankful of your information! -Steve >>>> >>>> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 07:16:16PM +0000, Iznogoud wrote: >>>> > > >>>> > > For GNU/Linux, how do you turn swap off and how do you turn in back >>>> on again? >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> > Here is the top of the manual page: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > NAME >>>> > swapon, swapoff - enable/disable devices and files for paging >>>> and swap- >>>> > ping >>>> > >>>> > SYNOPSIS >>>> > /sbin/swapon [-h -V] >>>> > /sbin/swapon -a [-v] [-e] >>>> > /sbin/swapon [-v] [-p priority] specialfile ... >>>> > /sbin/swapon [-s] >>>> > /sbin/swapoff [-h -V] >>>> > /sbin/swapoff -a >>>> > /sbin/swapoff specialfile ... >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> -- >>>> Name: Steve Trapp >>>> Location: Just east of the Missippi River >>>> Email-address: stevetrappcomcastnet >>>> Homepage: comcast DROPPED ALL HOMEPAGES--Where do I put my PGP public >>>> key now? >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Jeff Chapin >>> President, CedarLug, retired >>> President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" >>> President, UNI Scuba Club >>> Senator, NISG, retired >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Jeff Chapin >> President, CedarLug, retired >> President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" >> President, UNI Scuba Club >> Senator, NISG, retired >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From PJ.world at hotmail.com Wed Sep 20 19:41:05 2017 From: PJ.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 00:41:05 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? In-Reply-To: References: <20170917200934.GB7898@nobelware.com> <20170918190609.GA10673@dog.cavelan.local> <20170918191616.GA26530@nobelware.com> <20170918210509.GA11434@dog.cavelan.local> <5bbd8ab860cb0f68065bc8240a27568e@krytosvirus.com> , Message-ID: Grow up and help users not hurt them with yer Coleman attitude. This was all off topic. ....zzz ________________________________ From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org on behalf of Jeff Chapin Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 7:37 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? I guess I don't know what I expected. Sorry everyone on the list! On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 7:34 PM, paul g > wrote: Mock you're swap. You know who you are. Blub. ....zzz ________________________________ From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > on behalf of Jeff Chapin > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 6:32 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? .... Dare I ask? On Sep 20, 2017 1:46 AM, "paul g" > wrote: He likes it all to be manual. Just like Potter; ....zzz ________________________________ From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > on behalf of Jeff Chapin > Sent: Monday, September 18, 2017 4:26 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? Swapoff checks that automatically -- but I usually do it when I notice that I am using a ton of swap, but not all my ram. It may just be an illusion, but it seems that when I have a browser that is starting to act up and slow, this fixes it. On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Justin Krejci > wrote: Do you check to make sure your existing swap usage and RAM usage combined does not equal a number higher than the amount of total RAM you have on the system? I am guessing flushing swap into RAM when there is not enough RAM available is a bad thing to do. Just curious, why do you clear your swap space like that periodically? If your swap is being used too much, perhaps you either need more RAM or else should maybe turn down your vm.swappiness in sysctl. On 2017-09-18 04:07 PM, Jeff Chapin wrote: I periodically check swap usage, and run: sudo swapoff -a; sudo swapon -a; This will force anything in swap (on disk) back into RAM. Jeff On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 4:05 PM, Steve Trapp > wrote: Aha. I tried 'man swap' but didn't think of 'swapon'. My google search was not very productive, so I am thankful of your information! -Steve On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 07:16:16PM +0000, Iznogoud wrote: > > > > For GNU/Linux, how do you turn swap off and how do you turn in back on again? > > > > Here is the top of the manual page: > > > NAME > swapon, swapoff - enable/disable devices and files for paging and swap- > ping > > SYNOPSIS > /sbin/swapon [-h -V] > /sbin/swapon -a [-v] [-e] > /sbin/swapon [-v] [-p priority] specialfile ... > /sbin/swapon [-s] > /sbin/swapoff [-h -V] > /sbin/swapoff -a > /sbin/swapoff specialfile ... > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Name: Steve Trapp Location: Just east of the Missippi River Email-address: stevetrappcomcastnet Homepage: comcast DROPPED ALL HOMEPAGES--Where do I put my PGP public key now? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Wed Sep 20 19:57:06 2017 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 19:57:06 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? In-Reply-To: References: <20170917200934.GB7898@nobelware.com> <20170918190609.GA10673@dog.cavelan.local> <20170918191616.GA26530@nobelware.com> <20170918210509.GA11434@dog.cavelan.local> <5bbd8ab860cb0f68065bc8240a27568e@krytosvirus.com> Message-ID: Paul, I'm sorry I asked for clarification of your previous statement. I asked because you appear to have difficulties communicating, and I did not want to assume it was as off topic as it appeared - and your past history suggested it was. Please, please, please stop sending random gibberish to the list. Many of us, myself included, would love to help you with Linux related issues, despite the fact that you have repeatedly insulted us. I will take describing me as having a 'Coleman attitude' at face value, and not as the insult you probably intended. Coleman has gone above and beyond helping people on this list, and has previously given *you* excessive help, despite your nasty attitude, behavior, and name calling. I consider it a compliment to be described as having that attitude. That said, I'm tired of you on this list. Feel free to reply to me off list, if you can figure out how, but I really have no interest in publicly feeding a troll, and wasting space in everyone's email. If you truly want help, prove it by taking it off list - but if you really are just the troll you appear to be, hopefully the list's admin will make a rare exception to their hands-off moderation style and fix this issue. Jeff On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 7:41 PM, paul g wrote: > Grow up and help users not hurt them with yer Coleman attitude. > > > This was all off topic. > > > ....zzz > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > on behalf of Jeff Chapin > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 20, 2017 7:37 PM > > *To:* TCLUG Mailing List > *Subject:* Re: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? > > I guess I don't know what I expected. > > Sorry everyone on the list! > > On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 7:34 PM, paul g wrote: > >> Mock you're swap. You know who you are. Blub. >> >> >> ....zzz >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org >> on behalf of Jeff Chapin >> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 20, 2017 6:32 PM >> >> *To:* TCLUG Mailing List >> *Subject:* Re: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? >> >> .... Dare I ask? >> >> On Sep 20, 2017 1:46 AM, "paul g" wrote: >> >>> He likes it all to be manual. Just like Potter; >>> >>> ....zzz >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org >>> on behalf of Jeff Chapin >>> *Sent:* Monday, September 18, 2017 4:26 PM >>> *To:* TCLUG Mailing List >>> *Subject:* Re: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? >>> >>> Swapoff checks that automatically -- but I usually do it when I notice >>> that I am using a ton of swap, but not all my ram. It may just be an >>> illusion, but it seems that when I have a browser that is starting to act >>> up and slow, this fixes it. >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Justin Krejci >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Do you check to make sure your existing swap usage and RAM usage >>>> combined does not equal a number higher than the amount of total RAM you >>>> have on the system? I am guessing flushing swap into RAM when there is not >>>> enough RAM available is a bad thing to do. >>>> >>>> Just curious, why do you clear your swap space like that periodically? >>>> If your swap is being used too much, perhaps you either need more RAM or >>>> else should maybe turn down your vm.swappiness in sysctl. >>>> >>>> On 2017-09-18 04:07 PM, Jeff Chapin wrote: >>>> >>>> I periodically check swap usage, and run: >>>> >>>> sudo swapoff -a; sudo swapon -a; >>>> >>>> This will force anything in swap (on disk) back into RAM. >>>> >>>> Jeff >>>> >>>> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 4:05 PM, Steve Trapp >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Aha. I tried 'man swap' but didn't think of 'swapon'. My google search >>>>> was not >>>>> very productive, so I am thankful of your information! -Steve >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 07:16:16PM +0000, Iznogoud wrote: >>>>> > > >>>>> > > For GNU/Linux, how do you turn swap off and how do you turn in >>>>> back on again? >>>>> > > >>>>> > >>>>> > Here is the top of the manual page: >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > NAME >>>>> > swapon, swapoff - enable/disable devices and files for paging >>>>> and swap- >>>>> > ping >>>>> > >>>>> > SYNOPSIS >>>>> > /sbin/swapon [-h -V] >>>>> > /sbin/swapon -a [-v] [-e] >>>>> > /sbin/swapon [-v] [-p priority] specialfile ... >>>>> > /sbin/swapon [-s] >>>>> > /sbin/swapoff [-h -V] >>>>> > /sbin/swapoff -a >>>>> > /sbin/swapoff specialfile ... >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>> -- >>>>> Name: Steve Trapp >>>>> Location: Just east of the Missippi River >>>>> Email-address: stevetrappcomcastnet >>>>> Homepage: comcast DROPPED ALL HOMEPAGES--Where do I put my PGP public >>>>> key now? >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jeff Chapin >>>> President, CedarLug, retired >>>> President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" >>>> President, UNI Scuba Club >>>> Senator, NISG, retired >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Jeff Chapin >>> President, CedarLug, retired >>> President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" >>> President, UNI Scuba Club >>> Senator, NISG, retired >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Wed Sep 20 21:13:36 2017 From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 21:13:36 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? In-Reply-To: References: <20170917200934.GB7898@nobelware.com> <20170918190609.GA10673@dog.cavelan.local> <20170918191616.GA26530@nobelware.com> <20170918210509.GA11434@dog.cavelan.local> <5bbd8ab860cb0f68065bc8240a27568e@krytosvirus.com> Message-ID: Excuse me? > On Sep 20, 2017, at 7:41 PM, paul g wrote: > > Grow up and help users not hurt them with yer Coleman attitude. > > This was all off topic. > > ....zzz > > > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org on behalf of Jeff Chapin > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 7:37 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? > > I guess I don't know what I expected. > > Sorry everyone on the list! > > On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 7:34 PM, paul g > wrote: > Mock you're swap. You know who you are. Blub. > > ....zzz > > > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > on behalf of Jeff Chapin > > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 6:32 PM > > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? > > .... Dare I ask? > > On Sep 20, 2017 1:46 AM, "paul g" > wrote: > He likes it all to be manual. Just like Potter; > ....zzz > > > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > on behalf of Jeff Chapin > > Sent: Monday, September 18, 2017 4:26 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? > > Swapoff checks that automatically -- but I usually do it when I notice that I am using a ton of swap, but not all my ram. It may just be an illusion, but it seems that when I have a browser that is starting to act up and slow, this fixes it. > > On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Justin Krejci > wrote: > Do you check to make sure your existing swap usage and RAM usage combined does not equal a number higher than the amount of total RAM you have on the system? I am guessing flushing swap into RAM when there is not enough RAM available is a bad thing to do. > > Just curious, why do you clear your swap space like that periodically? If your swap is being used too much, perhaps you either need more RAM or else should maybe turn down your vm.swappiness in sysctl. > > On 2017-09-18 04:07 PM, Jeff Chapin wrote: >> I periodically check swap usage, and run: >> >> sudo swapoff -a; sudo swapon -a; >> >> This will force anything in swap (on disk) back into RAM. >> >> Jeff >> >> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 4:05 PM, Steve Trapp > wrote: >> Aha. I tried 'man swap' but didn't think of 'swapon'. My google search was not >> very productive, so I am thankful of your information! -Steve >> >> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 07:16:16PM +0000, Iznogoud wrote: >> > > >> > > For GNU/Linux, how do you turn swap off and how do you turn in back on again? >> > > >> > >> > Here is the top of the manual page: >> > >> > >> > NAME >> > swapon, swapoff - enable/disable devices and files for paging and swap- >> > ping >> > >> > SYNOPSIS >> > /sbin/swapon [-h -V] >> > /sbin/swapon -a [-v] [-e] >> > /sbin/swapon [-v] [-p priority] specialfile ... >> > /sbin/swapon [-s] >> > /sbin/swapoff [-h -V] >> > /sbin/swapoff -a >> > /sbin/swapoff specialfile ... >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> -- >> Name: Steve Trapp >> Location: Just east of the Missippi River >> Email-address: stevetrappcomcastnet >> Homepage: comcast DROPPED ALL HOMEPAGES--Where do I put my PGP public key now? >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> -- >> Jeff Chapin >> President, CedarLug, retired >> President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" >> President, UNI Scuba Club >> Senator, NISG, retired >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From PJ.world at hotmail.com Wed Sep 20 22:48:56 2017 From: PJ.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 03:48:56 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? In-Reply-To: References: <20170917200934.GB7898@nobelware.com> <20170918190609.GA10673@dog.cavelan.local> <20170918191616.GA26530@nobelware.com> <20170918210509.GA11434@dog.cavelan.local> <5bbd8ab860cb0f68065bc8240a27568e@krytosvirus.com> , Message-ID: I really cannot understand what you are trying to do by telling me I cannot fix it again. Jeff. ....zzz ________________________________ From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org on behalf of Jeff Chapin Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 7:57 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? Paul, I'm sorry I asked for clarification of your previous statement. I asked because you appear to have difficulties communicating, and I did not want to assume it was as off topic as it appeared - and your past history suggested it was. Please, please, please stop sending random gibberish to the list. Many of us, myself included, would love to help you with Linux related issues, despite the fact that you have repeatedly insulted us. I will take describing me as having a 'Coleman attitude' at face value, and not as the insult you probably intended. Coleman has gone above and beyond helping people on this list, and has previously given *you* excessive help, despite your nasty attitude, behavior, and name calling. I consider it a compliment to be described as having that attitude. That said, I'm tired of you on this list. Feel free to reply to me off list, if you can figure out how, but I really have no interest in publicly feeding a troll, and wasting space in everyone's email. If you truly want help, prove it by taking it off list - but if you really are just the troll you appear to be, hopefully the list's admin will make a rare exception to their hands-off moderation style and fix this issue. Jeff On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 7:41 PM, paul g > wrote: Grow up and help users not hurt them with yer Coleman attitude. This was all off topic. ....zzz ________________________________ From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > on behalf of Jeff Chapin > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 7:37 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? I guess I don't know what I expected. Sorry everyone on the list! On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 7:34 PM, paul g > wrote: Mock you're swap. You know who you are. Blub. ....zzz ________________________________ From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > on behalf of Jeff Chapin > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 6:32 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? .... Dare I ask? On Sep 20, 2017 1:46 AM, "paul g" > wrote: He likes it all to be manual. Just like Potter; ....zzz ________________________________ From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > on behalf of Jeff Chapin > Sent: Monday, September 18, 2017 4:26 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? Swapoff checks that automatically -- but I usually do it when I notice that I am using a ton of swap, but not all my ram. It may just be an illusion, but it seems that when I have a browser that is starting to act up and slow, this fixes it. On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Justin Krejci > wrote: Do you check to make sure your existing swap usage and RAM usage combined does not equal a number higher than the amount of total RAM you have on the system? I am guessing flushing swap into RAM when there is not enough RAM available is a bad thing to do. Just curious, why do you clear your swap space like that periodically? If your swap is being used too much, perhaps you either need more RAM or else should maybe turn down your vm.swappiness in sysctl. On 2017-09-18 04:07 PM, Jeff Chapin wrote: I periodically check swap usage, and run: sudo swapoff -a; sudo swapon -a; This will force anything in swap (on disk) back into RAM. Jeff On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 4:05 PM, Steve Trapp > wrote: Aha. I tried 'man swap' but didn't think of 'swapon'. My google search was not very productive, so I am thankful of your information! -Steve On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 07:16:16PM +0000, Iznogoud wrote: > > > > For GNU/Linux, how do you turn swap off and how do you turn in back on again? > > > > Here is the top of the manual page: > > > NAME > swapon, swapoff - enable/disable devices and files for paging and swap- > ping > > SYNOPSIS > /sbin/swapon [-h -V] > /sbin/swapon -a [-v] [-e] > /sbin/swapon [-v] [-p priority] specialfile ... > /sbin/swapon [-s] > /sbin/swapoff [-h -V] > /sbin/swapoff -a > /sbin/swapoff specialfile ... > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Name: Steve Trapp Location: Just east of the Missippi River Email-address: stevetrappcomcastnet Homepage: comcast DROPPED ALL HOMEPAGES--Where do I put my PGP public key now? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From iznogoud at nobelware.com Thu Sep 21 09:28:06 2017 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 14:28:06 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] proc virt meaning? In-Reply-To: References: <20170918210509.GA11434@dog.cavelan.local> <5bbd8ab860cb0f68065bc8240a27568e@krytosvirus.com> Message-ID: <20170921142806.GA7401@nobelware.com> Yes. So, "swapon" and "swapoff" to handle swap memory. End thread. Now everybody hydrate; there is an autumnal heat-wave coming. From iznogoud at nobelware.com Wed Sep 27 11:45:38 2017 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 16:45:38 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] WINE 32-bit on 64-bit machines and "multilib OSs" In-Reply-To: <20170920153859.GA23373@nobelware.com> References: <20170918215107.GA31573@nobelware.com> <20170920153859.GA23373@nobelware.com> Message-ID: <20170927164538.GA10697@nobelware.com> For anyone who cares, I figured I'd fill in with my latest info. In my earlier response I had described how I converted a Slackware distro to a "multilib" distro, which was not a standard 64-bit installation. A "multilib" distro has both runtime libraries (.so files) and development libraries (.so and .a archive files) installed. It turns out that /lib is where 32 bit stuff goes and /lib64 the expected standard for the 64-bit kernel. For those who do not know, runtime library paths are taken care of by ld.so (you can look it up). For Slackware, "alien Bob's" packaged libraries and scripts take care of the multilib part. I first tried it in a VDI dual-boot VM in VirtualBox. Then I tried it on a real system, the "/" root filesystem of which I had cloned with "rsync" to a new partition (booting was done with GRUB by having added to the grub.conf an having modified the / mount-point in /etc/fstab in the new partition). This worked very well. I built WINE on the real system. There can be a misconception here. A very standard WINE build is meant to run 32-bit apps. So, one needs to get the 64-bit build with './configure --prefix=..... --enable-win64' and then make it. Online instructions (including the WineHQ.org wiki) on how to proceed differ and conflict. I would say they are outdated. The claim is that ones the wine64 is built and installed one needs to build the 32-bit one, like this: './configure --prefix=..... --with-wine64=BUILD_PATH' and BUILD_PATH has to be the directory where 64-bit build took place, say ~/builds/wine-2.0.1/ or something similar. This did not work. People online have suggested jailing the build to a 32-bit container, something I did not do. I just built the 32bit WINE and installed to a different place. I use environment modules to manage the runtime side of WINE as with other software. I built one module for WINE 32-bit ("Wine32") and one for the 64-bit ("Wine"). I 'module load Wine32' to get the environment ready to run on 32-bit. The only caveat is that the ~/.wine directory will not be compatible across the 64-bit and 32-bit WINE builds. I have two of those now and a sym-link to ~/.wine is needed every time I want to run something specific. The real problem is if I wanted to run simultanuously a 64-bit Windows executable and another 32-bit one. This is not a concern at the moment given what I want to do. And one last piece of info to ensure that this thing works and that WINE (and the work that people like Codeweavers are doing) is great is this: I managed to install and successfully run a music sequencer and its plugins, Fl Studio from ImageLine Software (versions 10 and 12) which was my motivating goal. https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=178 This last part.... Wow! Linux!