From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Thu Apr 9 23:59:18 2015 From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 23:59:18 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Seeking guidance after data recovery Message-ID: <46B7CC7D-66F1-4F91-86E4-9D69DD7BC50B@cwis.biz> 90 days and $17,000 later I have my 13TB array recovered. Thank goodness for business insurance! So I have the need to build a bigger, better, smarter storage system. Presently I?m looking at 16x3TB drives and a RAID 5 running in ESXi? But it?s time to consider alternatives? NAS, SAN, something. I?ve avoided ZFS talk for years because it never applied, and FreeNAS is definitely up my alley with 14 years FreeBSD experience - but what would you do? Primary function is long-term data storage but also serving up many network services as well as development projects. I have an LSI MegaRAID 9240-8i with a SAS expander and would be maxing out the 16 RAID drives for that if I go with a RAID but I really want knowledge on personal experiences with various NAS options. One requirement: Must be iSCSI capable with ESXi 5.5 (free license). ESXi machine is super-loaded (6 core Sandy bridge Xeon and 32GB) but was design for the future growth. From andyzib at gmail.com Fri Apr 10 10:26:34 2015 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 10:26:34 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Seeking guidance after data recovery In-Reply-To: <46B7CC7D-66F1-4F91-86E4-9D69DD7BC50B@cwis.biz> References: <46B7CC7D-66F1-4F91-86E4-9D69DD7BC50B@cwis.biz> Message-ID: I'd go up to RAID 6 for additional fault tolerance. It takes the death of three disks to kill RAID 6, and backup to something. For twice the price you can buy a second NAS and backup to that, or if you have a LTO library handy you could write to multiple tapes depending on what's important. Beyond that, I'm not much of a hardware freak. Spoiled by enterprise solutions and enterprise service contracts I suppose. :) On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 11:59 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > 90 days and $17,000 later I have my 13TB array recovered. > > Thank goodness for business insurance! > > So I have the need to build a bigger, better, smarter storage system. > Presently I'm looking at 16x3TB drives and a RAID 5 running in ESXi... But > it's time to consider alternatives... NAS, SAN, something. > > I've avoided ZFS talk for years because it never applied, and FreeNAS is > definitely up my alley with 14 years FreeBSD experience - but what would > you do? Primary function is long-term data storage but also serving up many > network services as well as development projects. > > I have an LSI MegaRAID 9240-8i with a SAS expander and would be maxing out > the 16 RAID drives for that if I go with a RAID but I really want knowledge > on personal experiences with various NAS options. > > One requirement: Must be iSCSI capable with ESXi 5.5 (free license). ESXi > machine is super-loaded (6 core Sandy bridge Xeon and 32GB) but was design > for the future growth. > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nassarmu at gmail.com Fri Apr 10 10:40:40 2015 From: nassarmu at gmail.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 10:40:40 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Seeking guidance after data recovery In-Reply-To: <46B7CC7D-66F1-4F91-86E4-9D69DD7BC50B@cwis.biz> References: <46B7CC7D-66F1-4F91-86E4-9D69DD7BC50B@cwis.biz> Message-ID: I would (and have gone) the FreeNAS/zfs route.You do not want a RAID5 (or its ZFS equivalent RAID-Z) with drives of that size, RAID6/Z2 is better. If you can spare the cost, go RAID-X3. If possible i would get two servers so that you can have an offsite replica of the data, something easily done with FreeNAS. On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 11:59 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > 90 days and $17,000 later I have my 13TB array recovered. > > Thank goodness for business insurance! > > So I have the need to build a bigger, better, smarter storage system. Presently I?m looking at 16x3TB drives and a RAID 5 running in ESXi? But it?s time to consider alternatives? NAS, SAN, something. > > I?ve avoided ZFS talk for years because it never applied, and FreeNAS is definitely up my alley with 14 years FreeBSD experience - but what would you do? Primary function is long-term data storage but also serving up many network services as well as development projects. > > I have an LSI MegaRAID 9240-8i with a SAS expander and would be maxing out the 16 RAID drives for that if I go with a RAID but I really want knowledge on personal experiences with various NAS options. > > One requirement: Must be iSCSI capable with ESXi 5.5 (free license). ESXi machine is super-loaded (6 core Sandy bridge Xeon and 32GB) but was design for the future growth. > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lkateley at kateley.com Fri Apr 10 11:34:31 2015 From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 11:34:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Seeking guidance after data recovery In-Reply-To: References: <46B7CC7D-66F1-4F91-86E4-9D69DD7BC50B@cwis.biz> Message-ID: <5527FB97.1000702@kateley.com> This seems like a good time to make a plug for my freenas classes :) There is a free intro class that runs every day. Grab it in the next week or so, cuz it's changing to be much smaller.. http://www.freenas.org/freenas-zfs-training/ lk On 4/10/15 10:26 AM, Andrew S. Zbikowski wrote: > I'd go up to RAID 6 for additional fault tolerance. It takes the death > of three disks to kill RAID 6, and backup to something. For twice the > price you can buy a second NAS and backup to that, or if you have a > LTO library handy you could write to multiple tapes depending on > what's important. > > Beyond that, I'm not much of a hardware freak. Spoiled by enterprise > solutions and enterprise service contracts I suppose. :) > > On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 11:59 PM, Ryan Coleman > wrote: > > 90 days and $17,000 later I have my 13TB array recovered. > > Thank goodness for business insurance! > > So I have the need to build a bigger, better, smarter storage > system. Presently I?m looking at 16x3TB drives and a RAID 5 > running in ESXi? But it?s time to consider alternatives? NAS, SAN, > something. > > I?ve avoided ZFS talk for years because it never applied, and > FreeNAS is definitely up my alley with 14 years FreeBSD experience > - but what would you do? Primary function is long-term data > storage but also serving up many network services as well as > development projects. > > I have an LSI MegaRAID 9240-8i with a SAS expander and would be > maxing out the 16 RAID drives for that if I go with a RAID but I > really want knowledge on personal experiences with various NAS > options. > > One requirement: Must be iSCSI capable with ESXi 5.5 (free > license). ESXi machine is super-loaded (6 core Sandy bridge Xeon > and 32GB) but was design for the future growth. > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lkateley at kateley.com Fri Apr 10 11:37:39 2015 From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 11:37:39 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Seeking guidance after data recovery In-Reply-To: References: <46B7CC7D-66F1-4F91-86E4-9D69DD7BC50B@cwis.biz> Message-ID: <5527FC53.5080101@kateley.com> I am going to put in a plug for this one too, syneto.com. My company is reseller for this software. It is actually very nice if you want a software based zfs with commercial support. Cloudbyte too, but it is really really expensive. lk On 4/10/15 10:40 AM, Munir Nassar wrote: > I would (and have gone) the FreeNAS/zfs route.You do not want a RAID5 > (or its ZFS equivalent RAID-Z) with drives of that size, RAID6/Z2 is > better. If you can spare the cost, go RAID-X3. If possible i would get > two servers so that you can have an offsite replica of the data, > something easily done with FreeNAS. > > > On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 11:59 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> 90 days and $17,000 later I have my 13TB array recovered. >> >> Thank goodness for business insurance! >> >> So I have the need to build a bigger, better, smarter storage system. Presently I?m looking at 16x3TB drives and a RAID 5 running in ESXi? But it?s time to consider alternatives? NAS, SAN, something. >> >> I?ve avoided ZFS talk for years because it never applied, and FreeNAS is definitely up my alley with 14 years FreeBSD experience - but what would you do? Primary function is long-term data storage but also serving up many network services as well as development projects. >> >> I have an LSI MegaRAID 9240-8i with a SAS expander and would be maxing out the 16 RAID drives for that if I go with a RAID but I really want knowledge on personal experiences with various NAS options. >> >> One requirement: Must be iSCSI capable with ESXi 5.5 (free license). ESXi machine is super-loaded (6 core Sandy bridge Xeon and 32GB) but was design for the future growth. >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Fri Apr 10 11:50:43 2015 From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 11:50:43 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Seeking guidance after data recovery In-Reply-To: References: <46B7CC7D-66F1-4F91-86E4-9D69DD7BC50B@cwis.biz> Message-ID: <33475401-F2CF-43BE-8D6C-89B866B3C988@cwis.biz> I looked at RAID 6 (but for ESXi) and with that I had an additional $1200 cost. I just purchased the SAS expander for my card and I?d rather not eat that (although $200 was far less than MSRP). So if I go FreeNAS I should only be limited to the RAID controllers that have FreeBSD support, right? The plan is to finish our off-site storage system, yes. The entire migration operation I?m working on will take months to complete so I have a little bit of time (and I have three RR2320s lying around) but I need to spend as little as possible at this point after dropping $2000 in drives last week. > On Apr 10, 2015, at 10:40 AM, Munir Nassar wrote: > > I would (and have gone) the FreeNAS/zfs route.You do not want a RAID5 > (or its ZFS equivalent RAID-Z) with drives of that size, RAID6/Z2 is > better. If you can spare the cost, go RAID-X3. If possible i would get > two servers so that you can have an offsite replica of the data, > something easily done with FreeNAS. > > > On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 11:59 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> 90 days and $17,000 later I have my 13TB array recovered. >> >> Thank goodness for business insurance! >> >> So I have the need to build a bigger, better, smarter storage system. Presently I?m looking at 16x3TB drives and a RAID 5 running in ESXi? But it?s time to consider alternatives? NAS, SAN, something. >> >> I?ve avoided ZFS talk for years because it never applied, and FreeNAS is definitely up my alley with 14 years FreeBSD experience - but what would you do? Primary function is long-term data storage but also serving up many network services as well as development projects. >> >> I have an LSI MegaRAID 9240-8i with a SAS expander and would be maxing out the 16 RAID drives for that if I go with a RAID but I really want knowledge on personal experiences with various NAS options. >> >> One requirement: Must be iSCSI capable with ESXi 5.5 (free license). ESXi machine is super-loaded (6 core Sandy bridge Xeon and 32GB) but was design for the future growth. >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at gmail.com Fri Apr 10 12:05:46 2015 From: nassarmu at gmail.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 12:05:46 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Seeking guidance after data recovery In-Reply-To: <33475401-F2CF-43BE-8D6C-89B866B3C988@cwis.biz> References: <46B7CC7D-66F1-4F91-86E4-9D69DD7BC50B@cwis.biz> <33475401-F2CF-43BE-8D6C-89B866B3C988@cwis.biz> Message-ID: If you are going the FreeNAS route you should not be getting a RAID controller. a SAS controller maybe(HBA) if you are going with an external disk array, but not a RAID controller. On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > I looked at RAID 6 (but for ESXi) and with that I had an additional $1200 cost. > > I just purchased the SAS expander for my card and I?d rather not eat that (although $200 was far less than MSRP). > > So if I go FreeNAS I should only be limited to the RAID controllers that have FreeBSD support, right? > > The plan is to finish our off-site storage system, yes. The entire migration operation I?m working on will take months to complete so I have a little bit of time (and I have three RR2320s lying around) but I need to spend as little as possible at this point after dropping $2000 in drives last week. > >> On Apr 10, 2015, at 10:40 AM, Munir Nassar wrote: >> >> I would (and have gone) the FreeNAS/zfs route.You do not want a RAID5 >> (or its ZFS equivalent RAID-Z) with drives of that size, RAID6/Z2 is >> better. If you can spare the cost, go RAID-X3. If possible i would get >> two servers so that you can have an offsite replica of the data, >> something easily done with FreeNAS. >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 11:59 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>> 90 days and $17,000 later I have my 13TB array recovered. >>> >>> Thank goodness for business insurance! >>> >>> So I have the need to build a bigger, better, smarter storage system. Presently I?m looking at 16x3TB drives and a RAID 5 running in ESXi? But it?s time to consider alternatives? NAS, SAN, something. >>> >>> I?ve avoided ZFS talk for years because it never applied, and FreeNAS is definitely up my alley with 14 years FreeBSD experience - but what would you do? Primary function is long-term data storage but also serving up many network services as well as development projects. >>> >>> I have an LSI MegaRAID 9240-8i with a SAS expander and would be maxing out the 16 RAID drives for that if I go with a RAID but I really want knowledge on personal experiences with various NAS options. >>> >>> One requirement: Must be iSCSI capable with ESXi 5.5 (free license). ESXi machine is super-loaded (6 core Sandy bridge Xeon and 32GB) but was design for the future growth. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Fri Apr 10 13:38:57 2015 From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 13:38:57 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Seeking guidance after data recovery In-Reply-To: References: <46B7CC7D-66F1-4F91-86E4-9D69DD7BC50B@cwis.biz> <33475401-F2CF-43BE-8D6C-89B866B3C988@cwis.biz> Message-ID: <50A01B1B-E52F-49A8-84F6-887F950FB5C5@cwis.biz> So, then, my LSI 9240-8i with the expander should be fine? 64 drives supported as JBOD. > On Apr 10, 2015, at 12:05 PM, Munir Nassar wrote: > > If you are going the FreeNAS route you should not be getting a RAID > controller. a SAS controller maybe(HBA) if you are going with an > external disk array, but not a RAID controller. > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> I looked at RAID 6 (but for ESXi) and with that I had an additional $1200 cost. >> >> I just purchased the SAS expander for my card and I?d rather not eat that (although $200 was far less than MSRP). >> >> So if I go FreeNAS I should only be limited to the RAID controllers that have FreeBSD support, right? >> >> The plan is to finish our off-site storage system, yes. The entire migration operation I?m working on will take months to complete so I have a little bit of time (and I have three RR2320s lying around) but I need to spend as little as possible at this point after dropping $2000 in drives last week. >> >>> On Apr 10, 2015, at 10:40 AM, Munir Nassar wrote: >>> >>> I would (and have gone) the FreeNAS/zfs route.You do not want a RAID5 >>> (or its ZFS equivalent RAID-Z) with drives of that size, RAID6/Z2 is >>> better. If you can spare the cost, go RAID-X3. If possible i would get >>> two servers so that you can have an offsite replica of the data, >>> something easily done with FreeNAS. >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 11:59 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>>> 90 days and $17,000 later I have my 13TB array recovered. >>>> >>>> Thank goodness for business insurance! >>>> >>>> So I have the need to build a bigger, better, smarter storage system. Presently I?m looking at 16x3TB drives and a RAID 5 running in ESXi? But it?s time to consider alternatives? NAS, SAN, something. >>>> >>>> I?ve avoided ZFS talk for years because it never applied, and FreeNAS is definitely up my alley with 14 years FreeBSD experience - but what would you do? Primary function is long-term data storage but also serving up many network services as well as development projects. >>>> >>>> I have an LSI MegaRAID 9240-8i with a SAS expander and would be maxing out the 16 RAID drives for that if I go with a RAID but I really want knowledge on personal experiences with various NAS options. >>>> >>>> One requirement: Must be iSCSI capable with ESXi 5.5 (free license). ESXi machine is super-loaded (6 core Sandy bridge Xeon and 32GB) but was design for the future growth. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lkateley at kateley.com Fri Apr 10 13:44:31 2015 From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 13:44:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Seeking guidance after data recovery In-Reply-To: <33475401-F2CF-43BE-8D6C-89B866B3C988@cwis.biz> References: <46B7CC7D-66F1-4F91-86E4-9D69DD7BC50B@cwis.biz> <33475401-F2CF-43BE-8D6C-89B866B3C988@cwis.biz> Message-ID: <55281A0F.7040201@kateley.com> The open-zfs community has really found some really bad raid cards. Because of checksumming we can tell when data is corrupted. The card that are good are most of the lsi's. the 9211 for sata or I think it is 2308 for sas, use the version 18 of firmware, 19 and 20 have had problems.. but stating with lsi is a good choice. The freenas community recommends a IBM serverRAID M1015 flashed to the lsi 9211, you can get these on ebay really cheap. Alot of other cards can be used if on the freebsd 9.3 hardware compat list BUT, they have to be able to be used in jbod mode. The dell perc's have been a very very difficult to me over the years, but I just bought a new one to test the newer firmware versions, but i wouldn't recommend those. lk On 4/10/15 11:50 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > I looked at RAID 6 (but for ESXi) and with that I had an additional $1200 cost. > > I just purchased the SAS expander for my card and I?d rather not eat that (although $200 was far less than MSRP). > > So if I go FreeNAS I should only be limited to the RAID controllers that have FreeBSD support, right? > > The plan is to finish our off-site storage system, yes. The entire migration operation I?m working on will take months to complete so I have a little bit of time (and I have three RR2320s lying around) but I need to spend as little as possible at this point after dropping $2000 in drives last week. > >> On Apr 10, 2015, at 10:40 AM, Munir Nassar wrote: >> >> I would (and have gone) the FreeNAS/zfs route.You do not want a RAID5 >> (or its ZFS equivalent RAID-Z) with drives of that size, RAID6/Z2 is >> better. If you can spare the cost, go RAID-X3. If possible i would get >> two servers so that you can have an offsite replica of the data, >> something easily done with FreeNAS. >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 11:59 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>> 90 days and $17,000 later I have my 13TB array recovered. >>> >>> Thank goodness for business insurance! >>> >>> So I have the need to build a bigger, better, smarter storage system. Presently I?m looking at 16x3TB drives and a RAID 5 running in ESXi? But it?s time to consider alternatives? NAS, SAN, something. >>> >>> I?ve avoided ZFS talk for years because it never applied, and FreeNAS is definitely up my alley with 14 years FreeBSD experience - but what would you do? Primary function is long-term data storage but also serving up many network services as well as development projects. >>> >>> I have an LSI MegaRAID 9240-8i with a SAS expander and would be maxing out the 16 RAID drives for that if I go with a RAID but I really want knowledge on personal experiences with various NAS options. >>> >>> One requirement: Must be iSCSI capable with ESXi 5.5 (free license). ESXi machine is super-loaded (6 core Sandy bridge Xeon and 32GB) but was design for the future growth. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Linda Kateley Kateley Company Skype ID-kateleyco http://kateleyco.com From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sat Apr 11 15:06:56 2015 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 15:06:56 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Intel's $89 Linux HDMI stick coming in three months? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well, three months later and it isn't quite here, yet. Here's an article about it: http://www.techtimes.com/articles/44840/20150408/intels-compute-stick-here-heres-pre-order-slick.htm That article links to this on NewEgg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883800002 But, as they note, it is sold out right now and they may not get more in until May 1. They also have a page for the Linux version: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883800003 But take note: The Windows version has 2GB/32GB while the Linux version only has 1GB/8GB. I also note that other companies are producing things that seem almost the same, but I don't know how they differ: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883400001 That one comes with a little bluetooth keyboard. Have any of you tried one of these, yet? You'd want to be able to get the Windows version with twice the RAM and 4 times the storage, then install Linux on it. But will that work? Mike On Sun, 11 Jan 2015, Mike Miller wrote: > This seems like it's all about Windows... > > http://ces.gizmodo.com/intels-150-hdmi-stick-turns-any-tv-into-a-windows-desk-1678550370 > > ...but when you get to the end, you see this: > > "The Wall Street Journal says it'll hit by the end of Q1, with a Linux > version also available for $90." > > And links to these pages... > > http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2015/01/08/intel-unveils-pocket-size-computer-that-plugs-into-tvs/ > http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/compute-stick/intel-compute-stick.html > > ...which confirm the claims (except it's $89, not $90). > > Mike > From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sat Apr 11 15:13:31 2015 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 15:13:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu phone Message-ID: Have any of you been studying this thing? http://www.ubuntu.com/phone I guess they are selling only in Europe, so far, and the specs aren't so hot: http://www.engadget.com/2015/02/06/ubuntu-phone-launch/ It might never sell in the USA. How about this? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ Anyone using it? Mike From tclug at freakzilla.com Sat Apr 11 15:25:08 2015 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Clug) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 15:25:08 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu phone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That whole project was a bit of an eyebrow-raiser for me. First, whyyyyyyy? Second, their funding campaign was ridiculous, from the goal to the rewards to everything. Third, their specs were meh at best and their justification for them was ridiculous ("Nobody wants really good specs anyway.") It's just another one of those things that makes me really think I should switch away from Ubuntu before it's too late. On Sat, 11 Apr 2015, Mike Miller wrote: > Have any of you been studying this thing? > > http://www.ubuntu.com/phone > > I guess they are selling only in Europe, so far, and the specs aren't so hot: > > http://www.engadget.com/2015/02/06/ubuntu-phone-launch/ > > It might never sell in the USA. > > How about this? > > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ > > Anyone using it? > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Sun Apr 12 16:37:29 2015 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 16:37:29 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu phone Message-ID: > That whole project was a bit of an eyebrow-raiser for me. > > First, whyyyyyyy? > > Second, their funding campaign was ridiculous, from the goal to the > rewards to everything. > > Third, their specs were meh at best and their justification for them was > ridiculous ("Nobody wants really good specs anyway.") > > It's just another one of those things that makes me really think I should > switch away from Ubuntu before it's too late. A couple of years ago I put Ubuntu on two laptops. I didn't like some of the defaults so I put Fedora on one of the laptops. I really should put something else on the other one too. -- Brian Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. http://webEbenezer.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Sun Apr 12 16:48:48 2015 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 16:48:48 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] FreeBSD meeting notes Message-ID: Does anyone know if there's a recording of the recent TCLUG meeting on FreeBSD? I didn't go to it, but would be interested in watching a video or looking at the slides. Thanks. -- Brian Ebenezer Enterprises - "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the *color* *of* *their* *skin* *but* *by* *the* *content* *of* *their* *character*." MLK Jr. http://webEbenezer.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From o1bigtenor at gmail.com Sun Apr 12 17:28:33 2015 From: o1bigtenor at gmail.com (o1bigtenor) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 17:28:33 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu phone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 4:37 PM, Brian Wood wrote: > > > That whole project was a bit of an eyebrow-raiser for me. > > > > First, whyyyyyyy? > > > > Second, their funding campaign was ridiculous, from the goal to the > > rewards to everything. > > > > Third, their specs were meh at best and their justification for them was > > ridiculous ("Nobody wants really good specs anyway.") > > > > It's just another one of those things that makes me really think I should > > switch away from Ubuntu before it's too late. > > A couple of years ago I put Ubuntu on two laptops. I didn't like > some of the defaults so I put Fedora on one of the laptops. I really > should put something else on the other one too. > > Really not trying to start a distro war (a.k.a. religious war) but here is what I did. Many years ago I started on RH 5.2 then 6 and then somewhere it was Fedora Core and later it became Fedora. Well - - - I switched away when I couldn't update because the repository address had changed. (Today that wouldn't be a biggie but then I hadn't yet learned how to do that.) Well what I got tired of was needing to change the system so often. I tried Debian (had a mentor in a LUG though) and liked the idea of working for a long time without having keep changing things. Still there although now I use testing rather than stable for my base systems. I have been running Ubuntu because my wife likes more eye candy stuff and can say that Ubuntu really doesn't allow me to set things up the way I want them. I have to be and old fogey but I can still remember the slogan "computing for you - - just the way you want - - - microcomputers" - - - - rather than the mainframe systems where you had to do things the way the IT department wanted it. Well the IT department now runs all the micros and they still haven't figured out how to do things the way I would like them (they prefer change for changes sake along with eye candy and plenty of other bumpf) but I'm still working on running things my way. Working on learning more calculus so that I can use the 3 GPU cards I have in my box for Monte Carlo analysis and that's looking like it will be a lot of interesting when I manage to get there. So much to do and so little time to do it in! Dee > -- > Brian > Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. > http://webEbenezer.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu Sun Apr 12 17:02:40 2015 From: aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu (Andrew Berg) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 17:02:40 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] FreeBSD meeting notes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <552AEB80.60104@my.hennepintech.edu> On 2015.04.12 16:48, Brian Wood wrote: > Does anyone know if there's a recording of the recent TCLUG meeting > on FreeBSD? I didn't go to it, but would be interested in watching a > video or looking at the slides. Thanks. Here is the presentation file I used: https://robotsondrugs.com/tclug/FreeBSD.odp Some of the slides even have notes I made for myself that you may find useful. From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Sat Apr 18 16:20:44 2015 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 16:20:44 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] lsb-invalid-samba? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: lsb-invalid-mta is a handy little package to install with anything that pulls in sendmail or postfix when you don't want either one sullying your box. anyone know of a similar package for samba? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Sun Apr 19 17:52:36 2015 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Clug) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 17:52:36 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] zpool upgrade Message-ID: Ok, so I threw a zpool status on my array today (as I do at least once a week) and got this message: status: Some supported features are not enabled on the pool. The pool can still be used, but some features are unavailable. action: Enable all features using 'zpool upgrade'. Once this is done, the pool may no longer be accessible by software that does not support the features. See zpool-features(5) for details. Now sounds to me like I should just do the zpool upgrade thing but I figured I should check with the ZFS experts (namely Linda) on the list. I'm sliiightly worried about what software might now not be able to access the pool - I'd like to assume this means older versions of ZFS, and not anything else. But I'm not sure. The manpage for zpool-features wasn't very helpful... From lkateley at kateley.com Sun Apr 19 18:01:16 2015 From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 18:01:16 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] zpool upgrade In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <553433BC.3050500@kateley.com> what distro are you running? you should just be able to run #zpool upgrade I am really curious as to what is causing this though.. Something is making a call into the pool that the pool doesn't understand. #zpool clear might clear the errors. linda On 4/19/15 5:52 PM, Clug wrote: > Ok, so I threw a zpool status on my array today (as I do at least once > a week) and got this message: > > status: Some supported features are not enabled on the pool. The pool can > still be used, but some features are unavailable. > action: Enable all features using 'zpool upgrade'. Once this is done, > the pool may no longer be accessible by software that does not > support the features. See zpool-features(5) for details. > > Now sounds to me like I should just do the zpool upgrade thing but I > figured I should check with the ZFS experts (namely Linda) on the > list. I'm sliiightly worried about what software might now not be able > to access the pool - I'd like to assume this means older versions of > ZFS, and not anything else. But I'm not sure. The manpage for > zpool-features wasn't very helpful... > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at freakzilla.com Sun Apr 19 18:06:09 2015 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Clug) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 18:06:09 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] zpool upgrade In-Reply-To: <553433BC.3050500@kateley.com> References: <553433BC.3050500@kateley.com> Message-ID: Ubuntu, uh. 14.04 I guess. My assumption was that ZFS got upgraded lately and has new features now... or something. Like I said, just want to make sure this isn't breaking anything. On Sun, 19 Apr 2015, Linda Kateley wrote: > what distro are you running? > > you should just be able to run > > #zpool upgrade > > I am really curious as to what is causing this though.. Something is making a > call into the pool that the pool doesn't understand. #zpool clear might clear > the errors. > > linda > > On 4/19/15 5:52 PM, Clug wrote: >> Ok, so I threw a zpool status on my array today (as I do at least once a >> week) and got this message: >> >> status: Some supported features are not enabled on the pool. The pool can >> still be used, but some features are unavailable. >> action: Enable all features using 'zpool upgrade'. Once this is done, >> the pool may no longer be accessible by software that does not >> support the features. See zpool-features(5) for details. >> >> Now sounds to me like I should just do the zpool upgrade thing but I >> figured I should check with the ZFS experts (namely Linda) on the list. I'm >> sliiightly worried about what software might now not be able to access the >> pool - I'd like to assume this means older versions of ZFS, and not >> anything else. But I'm not sure. The manpage for zpool-features wasn't very >> helpful... >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From nassarmu at gmail.com Sun Apr 19 18:31:24 2015 From: nassarmu at gmail.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 18:31:24 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] zpool upgrade In-Reply-To: References: <553433BC.3050500@kateley.com> Message-ID: It probably won't break anything except for backward compatability. Anything that will mount that pool will need to be at the same version, or in this case support the same feature flags. Same goes for anything that you send snapshots to. On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 6:06 PM, Clug wrote: > Ubuntu, uh. 14.04 I guess. > > My assumption was that ZFS got upgraded lately and has new features now... > or something. > > Like I said, just want to make sure this isn't breaking anything. > > > On Sun, 19 Apr 2015, Linda Kateley wrote: > >> what distro are you running? >> >> you should just be able to run >> >> #zpool upgrade >> >> I am really curious as to what is causing this though.. Something is >> making a call into the pool that the pool doesn't understand. #zpool clear >> might clear the errors. >> >> linda >> >> On 4/19/15 5:52 PM, Clug wrote: >>> >>> Ok, so I threw a zpool status on my array today (as I do at least once a >>> week) and got this message: >>> >>> status: Some supported features are not enabled on the pool. The pool can >>> still be used, but some features are unavailable. >>> action: Enable all features using 'zpool upgrade'. Once this is done, >>> the pool may no longer be accessible by software that does not >>> support the features. See zpool-features(5) for details. >>> >>> Now sounds to me like I should just do the zpool upgrade thing but I >>> figured I should check with the ZFS experts (namely Linda) on the list. I'm >>> sliiightly worried about what software might now not be able to access the >>> pool - I'd like to assume this means older versions of ZFS, and not anything >>> else. But I'm not sure. The manpage for zpool-features wasn't very >>> helpful... >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at freakzilla.com Sun Apr 19 18:33:53 2015 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Clug) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 18:33:53 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] zpool upgrade In-Reply-To: References: <553433BC.3050500@kateley.com> Message-ID: Well, since it's all localised on one machine I figure I'm pretty safe (: On Sun, 19 Apr 2015, Munir Nassar wrote: > It probably won't break anything except for backward compatability. > > Anything that will mount that pool will need to be at the same > version, or in this case support the same feature flags. Same goes for > anything that you send snapshots to. > > On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 6:06 PM, Clug wrote: >> Ubuntu, uh. 14.04 I guess. >> >> My assumption was that ZFS got upgraded lately and has new features now... >> or something. >> >> Like I said, just want to make sure this isn't breaking anything. >> >> >> On Sun, 19 Apr 2015, Linda Kateley wrote: >> >>> what distro are you running? >>> >>> you should just be able to run >>> >>> #zpool upgrade >>> >>> I am really curious as to what is causing this though.. Something is >>> making a call into the pool that the pool doesn't understand. #zpool clear >>> might clear the errors. >>> >>> linda >>> >>> On 4/19/15 5:52 PM, Clug wrote: >>>> >>>> Ok, so I threw a zpool status on my array today (as I do at least once a >>>> week) and got this message: >>>> >>>> status: Some supported features are not enabled on the pool. The pool can >>>> still be used, but some features are unavailable. >>>> action: Enable all features using 'zpool upgrade'. Once this is done, >>>> the pool may no longer be accessible by software that does not >>>> support the features. See zpool-features(5) for details. >>>> >>>> Now sounds to me like I should just do the zpool upgrade thing but I >>>> figured I should check with the ZFS experts (namely Linda) on the list. I'm >>>> sliiightly worried about what software might now not be able to access the >>>> pool - I'd like to assume this means older versions of ZFS, and not anything >>>> else. But I'm not sure. The manpage for zpool-features wasn't very >>>> helpful... >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From tclug at freakzilla.com Sun Apr 19 18:36:45 2015 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Clug) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 18:36:45 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] zpool upgrade In-Reply-To: References: <553433BC.3050500@kateley.com> Message-ID: Oh, in case anyone was curious, this is what zpool upgrade returned, so these features for some reason weren't enabled before. clug at rooster:/home/clug> sudo zpool upgrade This system supports ZFS pool feature flags. All pools are formatted using feature flags. Some supported features are not enabled on the following pools. Once a feature is enabled the pool may become incompatible with software that does not support the feature. See zpool-features(5) for details. POOL FEATURE --------------- media spacemap_histogram enabled_txg hole_birth extensible_dataset embedded_data bookmarks -- From tlunde at gmail.com Sun Apr 19 20:28:58 2015 From: tlunde at gmail.com (T L) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 20:28:58 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] zpool upgrade In-Reply-To: References: <553433BC.3050500@kateley.com> Message-ID: I get those messages on v28 pools, made with ZFS for Linux or FreeBSD or older versions of FreeNAS. I'm hesitant to move beyond v28, even though I'd like some of the newer features, because I am not clear on the compatibility matrix among non-Oracle ZFS implementations. Version 28 seems to be the last version that all extant ZFS implementations can read. I'd be very willing to give up Oracle compatibility but don't want to lock myself out of moving between ZFS on Linux and *BSD. If anyone else has thoughts or experience to share here, that'd be mist welcome! Thomas On Apr 19, 2015 6:37 PM, "Clug" wrote: > Oh, in case anyone was curious, this is what zpool upgrade returned, so > these features for some reason weren't enabled before. > > clug at rooster:/home/clug> sudo zpool upgrade > This system supports ZFS pool feature flags. > > All pools are formatted using feature flags. > > > Some supported features are not enabled on the following pools. Once a > feature is enabled the pool may become incompatible with software > that does not support the feature. See zpool-features(5) for details. > > POOL FEATURE > --------------- > media > spacemap_histogram > enabled_txg > hole_birth > extensible_dataset > embedded_data > bookmarks > > -- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lkateley at kateley.com Mon Apr 20 08:15:54 2015 From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 08:15:54 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] zpool upgrade In-Reply-To: References: <553433BC.3050500@kateley.com> Message-ID: <5534FC0A.2040909@kateley.com> Did that clear the error too? On 4/19/15 6:36 PM, Clug wrote: > Oh, in case anyone was curious, this is what zpool upgrade returned, > so these features for some reason weren't enabled before. > > clug at rooster:/home/clug> sudo zpool upgrade > This system supports ZFS pool feature flags. > > All pools are formatted using feature flags. > > > Some supported features are not enabled on the following pools. > Once a > feature is enabled the pool may become incompatible with software > that does not support the feature. See zpool-features(5) for details. > > POOL FEATURE > --------------- > media > spacemap_histogram > enabled_txg > hole_birth > extensible_dataset > embedded_data > bookmarks > > -- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lkateley at kateley.com Mon Apr 20 08:21:33 2015 From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 08:21:33 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] zpool upgrade In-Reply-To: References: <553433BC.3050500@kateley.com> Message-ID: <5534FD5D.7010704@kateley.com> Everything beyond v28 is now at 5000. At 5000, feature flags were enabled so that you wouldn't have to worry about features in the different versions. Those features are held in the pool, so if you import into another distro, ZFS will know what features are there, rather than version numbers. Features have to be written to not disable pool operations if that features isn't enabled on the importing distro. Once you go up in versions, you can go backwards. The oracle version, last time I looked, was at about 32. So once you import into oracle zfs you can never go back again. But you can import a free and open pool into oracle zfs. linda On 4/19/15 8:28 PM, T L wrote: > > I get those messages on v28 pools, made with ZFS for Linux or FreeBSD > or older versions of FreeNAS. > > I'm hesitant to move beyond v28, even though I'd like some of the > newer features, because I am not clear on the compatibility matrix > among non-Oracle ZFS implementations. Version 28 seems to be the last > version that all extant ZFS implementations can read. I'd be very > willing to give up Oracle compatibility but don't want to lock myself > out of moving between ZFS on Linux and *BSD. If anyone else has > thoughts or experience to share here, that'd be mist welcome! > > Thomas > > On Apr 19, 2015 6:37 PM, "Clug" > wrote: > > Oh, in case anyone was curious, this is what zpool upgrade > returned, so these features for some reason weren't enabled before. > > clug at rooster:/home/clug> sudo zpool upgrade > This system supports ZFS pool feature flags. > > All pools are formatted using feature flags. > > > Some supported features are not enabled on the following > pools. Once a > feature is enabled the pool may become incompatible with software > that does not support the feature. See zpool-features(5) for > details. > > POOL FEATURE > --------------- > media > spacemap_histogram > enabled_txg > hole_birth > extensible_dataset > embedded_data > bookmarks > > -- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Mon Apr 20 09:05:50 2015 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Clug) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 09:05:50 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] zpool upgrade In-Reply-To: <5534FC0A.2040909@kateley.com> References: <553433BC.3050500@kateley.com> <5534FC0A.2040909@kateley.com> Message-ID: I don't think it was an error, just a message. But yeah, it's gone. On Mon, 20 Apr 2015, Linda Kateley wrote: > Did that clear the error too? > > > > On 4/19/15 6:36 PM, Clug wrote: >> Oh, in case anyone was curious, this is what zpool upgrade returned, so >> these features for some reason weren't enabled before. >> >> clug at rooster:/home/clug> sudo zpool upgrade >> This system supports ZFS pool feature flags. >> >> All pools are formatted using feature flags. >> >> >> Some supported features are not enabled on the following pools. Once a >> feature is enabled the pool may become incompatible with software >> that does not support the feature. See zpool-features(5) for details. >> >> POOL FEATURE >> --------------- >> media >> spacemap_histogram >> enabled_txg >> hole_birth >> extensible_dataset >> embedded_data >> bookmarks >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From tlunde at gmail.com Mon Apr 20 13:10:36 2015 From: tlunde at gmail.com (T L) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 13:10:36 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] zpool upgrade In-Reply-To: <5534FD5D.7010704@kateley.com> References: <553433BC.3050500@kateley.com> <5534FD5D.7010704@kateley.com> Message-ID: So if I use a feature which has a new compression scheme (just to pick an example) and then I later move the pool to an OS which doesn't support that scheme, how could this not disable access to the data? It's that kind of concern that has kept me on 28. I get that all non-Oracle implementations use v5000 but I don't see how, without feature parity being a constraint, one can move amongst open source implementations of ZFS. What am I missing? Thanks Thomas On Apr 20, 2015 8:22 AM, "Linda Kateley" wrote: > Everything beyond v28 is now at 5000. At 5000, feature flags were > enabled so that you wouldn't have to worry about features in the different > versions. Those features are held in the pool, so if you import into > another distro, ZFS will know what features are there, rather than version > numbers. Features have to be written to not disable pool operations if that > features isn't enabled on the importing distro. > > Once you go up in versions, you can go backwards. The oracle version, last > time I looked, was at about 32. So once you import into oracle zfs you can > never go back again. But you can import a free and open pool into oracle > zfs. > > linda > > On 4/19/15 8:28 PM, T L wrote: > > I get those messages on v28 pools, made with ZFS for Linux or FreeBSD or > older versions of FreeNAS. > > I'm hesitant to move beyond v28, even though I'd like some of the newer > features, because I am not clear on the compatibility matrix among > non-Oracle ZFS implementations. Version 28 seems to be the last version > that all extant ZFS implementations can read. I'd be very willing to give > up Oracle compatibility but don't want to lock myself out of moving between > ZFS on Linux and *BSD. If anyone else has thoughts or experience to share > here, that'd be mist welcome! > > Thomas > On Apr 19, 2015 6:37 PM, "Clug" wrote: > >> Oh, in case anyone was curious, this is what zpool upgrade returned, so >> these features for some reason weren't enabled before. >> >> clug at rooster:/home/clug> sudo zpool upgrade >> This system supports ZFS pool feature flags. >> >> All pools are formatted using feature flags. >> >> >> Some supported features are not enabled on the following pools. Once a >> feature is enabled the pool may become incompatible with software >> that does not support the feature. See zpool-features(5) for details. >> >> POOL FEATURE >> --------------- >> media >> spacemap_histogram >> enabled_txg >> hole_birth >> extensible_dataset >> embedded_data >> bookmarks >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lkateley at kateley.com Mon Apr 20 14:10:05 2015 From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 14:10:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] zpool upgrade In-Reply-To: References: <553433BC.3050500@kateley.com> <5534FD5D.7010704@kateley.com> Message-ID: <55354F0D.2010708@kateley.com> All I can tell you is that the community is dedicated to ensure those kinds of limitations don't occur. They work hard to make sure all distros and tools align to each other. So far the features that have been added or aren't in different distros, can't/don't ever make the pools and datasets unreadable. There are things like hot spares or sharenfs that are and have been different for awhile. But neither of those make the pools unreadable. I think it helps too that the core-team for open-zfs is comprised of experts from different distros and products. features can only be added to the core. There are also test suites available to ensure compatibility. None of this applies though to those who have gone rogue from the core. There are a number of commercial products which have been built from openzfs core which have their own features and code sets, which I am not sure if they will import in.. But I have seen people take nexenta and import into freenas or freenas and import into debian zfsonlinux. I just had a partner take really old openindiana and import into syneto. Most of them just work. If you try to do this with version 28, it will typically want to upgrade your pool to v5000 prior to the import.... From a community perspective they want it to work.. commercial products, don't know. I think the commercial products should have to tell you whether or not they are compatible, but a lot of don't even use the word "zfs". You usually can tell the products that are dedicated to keeping things clean by being listed on the open-zfs.org site. Some of this is described here http://open-zfs.org/wiki/Developer_resources linda On 4/20/15 1:10 PM, T L wrote: > > So if I use a feature which has a new compression scheme (just to pick > an example) and then I later move the pool to an OS which doesn't > support that scheme, how could this not disable access to the data? > > It's that kind of concern that has kept me on 28. I get that all > non-Oracle implementations use v5000 but I don't see how, without > feature parity being a constraint, one can move amongst open source > implementations of ZFS. What am I missing? > > Thanks > Thomas > > On Apr 20, 2015 8:22 AM, "Linda Kateley" > wrote: > > Everything beyond v28 is now at 5000. At 5000, feature flags were > enabled so that you wouldn't have to worry about features in the > different versions. Those features are held in the pool, so if you > import into another distro, ZFS will know what features are there, > rather than version numbers. Features have to be written to not > disable pool operations if that features isn't enabled on the > importing distro. > > Once you go up in versions, you can go backwards. The oracle > version, last time I looked, was at about 32. So once you import > into oracle zfs you can never go back again. But you can import a > free and open pool into oracle zfs. > > linda > > On 4/19/15 8:28 PM, T L wrote: >> >> I get those messages on v28 pools, made with ZFS for Linux or >> FreeBSD or older versions of FreeNAS. >> >> I'm hesitant to move beyond v28, even though I'd like some of the >> newer features, because I am not clear on the compatibility >> matrix among non-Oracle ZFS implementations. Version 28 seems to >> be the last version that all extant ZFS implementations can read. >> I'd be very willing to give up Oracle compatibility but don't >> want to lock myself out of moving between ZFS on Linux and *BSD. >> If anyone else has thoughts or experience to share here, that'd >> be mist welcome! >> >> Thomas >> >> On Apr 19, 2015 6:37 PM, "Clug" > > wrote: >> >> Oh, in case anyone was curious, this is what zpool upgrade >> returned, so these features for some reason weren't enabled >> before. >> >> clug at rooster:/home/clug> sudo zpool upgrade >> This system supports ZFS pool feature flags. >> >> All pools are formatted using feature flags. >> >> >> Some supported features are not enabled on the following >> pools. Once a >> feature is enabled the pool may become incompatible with >> software >> that does not support the feature. See zpool-features(5) >> for details. >> >> POOL FEATURE >> --------------- >> media >> spacemap_histogram >> enabled_txg >> hole_birth >> extensible_dataset >> embedded_data >> bookmarks >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu Tue Apr 21 07:33:34 2015 From: aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu (Andrew Berg) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 07:33:34 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] zpool upgrade In-Reply-To: References: <553433BC.3050500@kateley.com> <5534FD5D.7010704@kateley.com> Message-ID: <5536439E.7000300@my.hennepintech.edu> On 2015.04.20 13:10, T L wrote: > So if I use a feature which has a new compression scheme (just to pick an > example) and then I later move the pool to an OS which doesn't support that > scheme, how could this not disable access to the data? See the zpool-features man page. It varies by feature. Some will completely prevent import in this case, while others may simply only make the pool read-only. Also, some features are not mandatory at upgrade time and will not be enabled automatically. If a feature is disabled, support for it is not required for import. Get to know which systems you'll be encountering and what they will support (and also which features you consider important). From nassarmu at gmail.com Tue Apr 21 09:08:01 2015 From: nassarmu at gmail.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 09:08:01 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] zpool upgrade In-Reply-To: <5536439E.7000300@my.hennepintech.edu> References: <553433BC.3050500@kateley.com> <5534FD5D.7010704@kateley.com> <5536439E.7000300@my.hennepintech.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 7:33 AM, Andrew Berg wrote: > See the zpool-features man page. It varies by feature. Some will completely > prevent import in this case, while others may simply only make the pool > read-only. Also, some features are not mandatory at upgrade time and will not > be enabled automatically. If a feature is disabled, support for it is not > required for import. This is a bit misleading, as the feature would need to have been disabled from the start. Lets say i create a feature of supercompressor which compresses everything with my super secret proprietary algorithm(so secret that even decrypting is a closely held secret), disabling this feature only affect NEW blocks and old blocks will remain compressed with this proprietary compressor rendering the pool unimportable by a ZFS implementation that does not understand the supercompressor feature flag. From lkateley at kateley.com Tue Apr 21 09:25:46 2015 From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 09:25:46 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] zpool upgrade In-Reply-To: References: <553433BC.3050500@kateley.com> <5534FD5D.7010704@kateley.com> <5536439E.7000300@my.hennepintech.edu> Message-ID: <55365DEA.9070308@kateley.com> In freenas they have encryption. If you turn encryption on, you will not be able to export/import the pool to another distro. So yes there are features that won't cross boundaries. I would encourage you not to use these kinds of features if you want movement. Most features that are defined as "flags" currently will not make it unimportable. Like space histogram in zol. You will still be able to calculate free space, but not as efficiently for large files. V28 might make your pool unmovable at some point, although currently all distros support import and upgrade of v28 pool. Getting to v5000 will help you adapt to the next phase of changing conditions. linda On 4/21/15 9:08 AM, Munir Nassar wrote: > On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 7:33 AM, Andrew Berg > wrote: > >> See the zpool-features man page. It varies by feature. Some will completely >> prevent import in this case, while others may simply only make the pool >> read-only. Also, some features are not mandatory at upgrade time and will not >> be enabled automatically. If a feature is disabled, support for it is not >> required for import. > This is a bit misleading, as the feature would need to have been > disabled from the start. > > Lets say i create a feature of supercompressor which compresses > everything with my super secret proprietary algorithm(so secret that > even decrypting is a closely held secret), disabling this feature only > affect NEW blocks and old blocks will remain compressed with this > proprietary compressor rendering the pool unimportable by a ZFS > implementation that does not understand the supercompressor feature > flag. > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu Tue Apr 21 09:33:30 2015 From: aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu (Andrew Berg) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 09:33:30 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] zpool upgrade In-Reply-To: References: <553433BC.3050500@kateley.com> <5534FD5D.7010704@kateley.com> <5536439E.7000300@my.hennepintech.edu> Message-ID: <55365FBA.7030102@my.hennepintech.edu> On 2015.04.21 09:08, Munir Nassar wrote: > On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 7:33 AM, Andrew Berg > wrote: > >> See the zpool-features man page. It varies by feature. Some will completely >> prevent import in this case, while others may simply only make the pool >> read-only. Also, some features are not mandatory at upgrade time and will not >> be enabled automatically. If a feature is disabled, support for it is not >> required for import. > > This is a bit misleading, as the feature would need to have been > disabled from the start. Actually, I was mistaken about features not being enabled automatically. Features are enabled automatically, but are not necessarily active. Any enabled, but not active, features do not prevent import. > > Lets say i create a feature of supercompressor which compresses > everything with my super secret proprietary algorithm(so secret that > even decrypting is a closely held secret), disabling this feature only > affect NEW blocks and old blocks will remain compressed with this > proprietary compressor rendering the pool unimportable by a ZFS > implementation that does not understand the supercompressor feature > flag. A compression feature would always be active, so yes. However, one would be unwise to activate this feature if one planned to ever use it on a system without support for that proprietary feature. As I said, pay attention to which features are going to be activated, and what support other systems have for them. From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Fri Apr 24 12:47:52 2015 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 12:47:52 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] sshd during fsck Message-ID: with upstart i have been launching sshd early, by specifying "start on startup", so sshd is already available during the fscks. how may i do this with systemd (vivid or arch)? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lkateley at kateley.com Fri Apr 24 14:29:16 2015 From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 14:29:16 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] zpool upgrade In-Reply-To: <55365FBA.7030102@my.hennepintech.edu> References: <553433BC.3050500@kateley.com> <5534FD5D.7010704@kateley.com> <5536439E.7000300@my.hennepintech.edu> <55365FBA.7030102@my.hennepintech.edu> Message-ID: <553A998C.7070200@kateley.com> I just saw a new feature that would be in a flag. Large block support. That would be available in newer versions but won't be in older, but will still be on version 5000. So if you had a pool with large blocks enabled you would need to upgrade to or use a distro that had large block support to import. linda On 4/21/15 9:33 AM, Andrew Berg wrote: > On 2015.04.21 09:08, Munir Nassar wrote: >> On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 7:33 AM, Andrew Berg >> wrote: >> >>> See the zpool-features man page. It varies by feature. Some will completely >>> prevent import in this case, while others may simply only make the pool >>> read-only. Also, some features are not mandatory at upgrade time and will not >>> be enabled automatically. If a feature is disabled, support for it is not >>> required for import. >> This is a bit misleading, as the feature would need to have been >> disabled from the start. > Actually, I was mistaken about features not being enabled automatically. > Features are enabled automatically, but are not necessarily active. Any > enabled, but not active, features do not prevent import. > >> Lets say i create a feature of supercompressor which compresses >> everything with my super secret proprietary algorithm(so secret that >> even decrypting is a closely held secret), disabling this feature only >> affect NEW blocks and old blocks will remain compressed with this >> proprietary compressor rendering the pool unimportable by a ZFS >> implementation that does not understand the supercompressor feature >> flag. > A compression feature would always be active, so yes. However, one would be > unwise to activate this feature if one planned to ever use it on a system > without support for that proprietary feature. As I said, pay attention to which > features are going to be activated, and what support other systems have for them. > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list