From david.wagle at gmail.com Sat Mar 1 00:03:56 2014 From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 00:03:56 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about printing' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Paul - again, there's no reason for world permissions to be anything. Anyone authorized to use the service should be in the same group as the service. On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 7:36 PM, paul g wrote: > Again I am sorry to repost BUT the following should be noted: > > I am using a majic jack based telephone line system 'VOIP', > > I have adjusted the MFC-295CN to 9600 baud rate 'fax', > > I do of course have a high speed ethernet connection, > > Your help is always appreciated. > > Thank you for your time, > > Paul G > > > ------------------------------ > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:16:31 -0600 > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > I just preformed a 'chmod' command and permissions NOW look like this for > the file: > > located under: deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ > > -rwxrw-rw- 1 root deb 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter > > command I entered was: > > sudo chmod go-x brfaxfilter > > to remove execute. > > rebooted the machine same thing still shows up in Cups. > > ------------------------------ > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:58:10 -0600 > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > ls -l of /usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter > > Looks like you have a sticky bit set and have it 'rwx' for all. It really > only probably needs to be 'rw-' for owner and group, and then any user who > is allowed to use it should be in that group. There should be no need for > a sticky bit to be set. > > > > On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM, paul g wrote: > > I have successfully installed the 'CUPS' and the appropriate drivers for a > model 'MFC-295CN' Brother printer. > > The machine is running kernel: Linux deb-desktop 3.2.0-59-generic > #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux > > > I can print documents properly as well as scan them using xsane. Test page > printout work great! also 'full color'. > > My issue is with the accompanied 'BRFAX' which I have installed also uses > 'Cups' is as follows: > > When I click on 'BRFAX' inside 'Cups' > Reports an error: > > The error is as follows: 'shown in Cups' > > Stopped - File "/usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter" has insecure permissions > (0100777/uid=0/gid=0). > > deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ ls -lah > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter > > dpkg -l | grep Brother > > ii brmfcfaxcups > 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC/FAX fax share function > driver > ii brmfcfaxlpd > 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC-FAX LPD driver > ii brother-udev-rule-type1 > 1.0.0-1 Brother udev rule type 1 > ii brscan-skey > 0.2.4-1 Brother Linux scanner S-KEY tool > ii brscan3 > 0.2.11-4 Brother Scanner Driver > ii mfc295cncupswrapper > 1.1.3-1 Brother CUPS Inkjet Printer > Definitions > ii mfc295cnlpr > 1.1.3-1 Brother lpr Inkjet Printer > Definitions > ii printer-driver-ptouch > 1.3-3ubuntu0.1 printer driver Brother P-touch > label printers > > Any ideas on where to go from here? > > Thank You, > > Paul G > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.wagle at gmail.com Sat Mar 1 00:06:35 2014 From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 00:06:35 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about printing' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Also - you probably have to restart CUPS to have it re-read the library. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:03 AM, David Wagle wrote: > Paul - again, there's no reason for world permissions to be anything. > Anyone authorized to use the service should be in the same group as the > service. > > > On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 7:36 PM, paul g wrote: > >> Again I am sorry to repost BUT the following should be noted: >> >> I am using a majic jack based telephone line system 'VOIP', >> >> I have adjusted the MFC-295CN to 9600 baud rate 'fax', >> >> I do of course have a high speed ethernet connection, >> >> Your help is always appreciated. >> >> Thank you for your time, >> >> Paul G >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> From: pj.world at hotmail.com >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:16:31 -0600 >> >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' >> >> I just preformed a 'chmod' command and permissions NOW look like this for >> the file: >> >> located under: deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ >> >> -rwxrw-rw- 1 root deb 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter >> >> command I entered was: >> >> sudo chmod go-x brfaxfilter >> >> to remove execute. >> >> rebooted the machine same thing still shows up in Cups. >> >> ------------------------------ >> Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:58:10 -0600 >> From: david.wagle at gmail.com >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' >> >> ls -l of /usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter >> >> Looks like you have a sticky bit set and have it 'rwx' for all. It really >> only probably needs to be 'rw-' for owner and group, and then any user who >> is allowed to use it should be in that group. There should be no need for >> a sticky bit to be set. >> >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM, paul g wrote: >> >> I have successfully installed the 'CUPS' and the appropriate drivers for >> a model 'MFC-295CN' Brother printer. >> >> The machine is running kernel: Linux deb-desktop 3.2.0-59-generic >> #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux >> >> >> I can print documents properly as well as scan them using xsane. Test >> page printout work great! also 'full color'. >> >> My issue is with the accompanied 'BRFAX' which I have installed also uses >> 'Cups' is as follows: >> >> When I click on 'BRFAX' inside 'Cups' >> Reports an error: >> >> The error is as follows: 'shown in Cups' >> >> Stopped - File "/usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter" has insecure >> permissions (0100777/uid=0/gid=0). >> >> deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ ls -lah >> -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter >> >> dpkg -l | grep Brother >> >> ii brmfcfaxcups >> 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC/FAX fax share function >> driver >> ii brmfcfaxlpd >> 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC-FAX LPD driver >> ii brother-udev-rule-type1 >> 1.0.0-1 Brother udev rule type 1 >> ii brscan-skey >> 0.2.4-1 Brother Linux scanner S-KEY tool >> ii brscan3 >> 0.2.11-4 Brother Scanner Driver >> ii mfc295cncupswrapper >> 1.1.3-1 Brother CUPS Inkjet Printer >> Definitions >> ii mfc295cnlpr >> 1.1.3-1 Brother lpr Inkjet Printer >> Definitions >> ii printer-driver-ptouch >> 1.3-3ubuntu0.1 printer driver Brother P-touch >> label printers >> >> Any ideas on where to go from here? >> >> Thank You, >> >> Paul G >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.wagle at gmail.com Sat Mar 1 00:11:02 2014 From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 00:11:02 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about printing' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Looks like you're not the only one to run into this: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1368410.html On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:06 AM, David Wagle wrote: > Also - you probably have to restart CUPS to have it re-read the library. > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:03 AM, David Wagle wrote: > >> Paul - again, there's no reason for world permissions to be anything. >> Anyone authorized to use the service should be in the same group as the >> service. >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 7:36 PM, paul g wrote: >> >>> Again I am sorry to repost BUT the following should be noted: >>> >>> I am using a majic jack based telephone line system 'VOIP', >>> >>> I have adjusted the MFC-295CN to 9600 baud rate 'fax', >>> >>> I do of course have a high speed ethernet connection, >>> >>> Your help is always appreciated. >>> >>> Thank you for your time, >>> >>> Paul G >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> From: pj.world at hotmail.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:16:31 -0600 >>> >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' >>> >>> I just preformed a 'chmod' command and permissions NOW look like this >>> for the file: >>> >>> located under: deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ >>> >>> -rwxrw-rw- 1 root deb 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter >>> >>> command I entered was: >>> >>> sudo chmod go-x brfaxfilter >>> >>> to remove execute. >>> >>> rebooted the machine same thing still shows up in Cups. >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:58:10 -0600 >>> From: david.wagle at gmail.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' >>> >>> ls -l of /usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter >>> >>> Looks like you have a sticky bit set and have it 'rwx' for all. It >>> really only probably needs to be 'rw-' for owner and group, and then any >>> user who is allowed to use it should be in that group. There should be no >>> need for a sticky bit to be set. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM, paul g wrote: >>> >>> I have successfully installed the 'CUPS' and the appropriate drivers for >>> a model 'MFC-295CN' Brother printer. >>> >>> The machine is running kernel: Linux deb-desktop 3.2.0-59-generic >>> #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux >>> >>> >>> I can print documents properly as well as scan them using xsane. Test >>> page printout work great! also 'full color'. >>> >>> My issue is with the accompanied 'BRFAX' which I have installed also >>> uses 'Cups' is as follows: >>> >>> When I click on 'BRFAX' inside 'Cups' >>> Reports an error: >>> >>> The error is as follows: 'shown in Cups' >>> >>> Stopped - File "/usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter" has insecure >>> permissions (0100777/uid=0/gid=0). >>> >>> deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ ls -lah >>> -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter >>> >>> dpkg -l | grep Brother >>> >>> ii brmfcfaxcups >>> 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC/FAX fax share function >>> driver >>> ii brmfcfaxlpd >>> 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC-FAX LPD driver >>> ii brother-udev-rule-type1 >>> 1.0.0-1 Brother udev rule type 1 >>> ii brscan-skey >>> 0.2.4-1 Brother Linux scanner S-KEY tool >>> ii brscan3 >>> 0.2.11-4 Brother Scanner Driver >>> ii mfc295cncupswrapper >>> 1.1.3-1 Brother CUPS Inkjet Printer >>> Definitions >>> ii mfc295cnlpr >>> 1.1.3-1 Brother lpr Inkjet Printer >>> Definitions >>> ii printer-driver-ptouch >>> 1.3-3ubuntu0.1 printer driver Brother P-touch >>> label printers >>> >>> Any ideas on where to go from here? >>> >>> Thank You, >>> >>> Paul G >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sat Mar 1 12:35:46 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 12:35:46 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about printing' In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , Message-ID: David thanks for the great link and advice. I will reset world with command? 'chown root:root brfaxfilter' I will then 'chmod go+x' ???? Can you please recommend which area of the link you sent I should possibly follow? There are chmod 555 and 700 's etc making me confused. I will restart 'cups' using the command 'sudo service cups restart' Thanks alot for your help with this. Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 00:11:02 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' Looks like you're not the only one to run into this: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1368410.html On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:06 AM, David Wagle wrote: Also - you probably have to restart CUPS to have it re-read the library. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:03 AM, David Wagle wrote: Paul - again, there's no reason for world permissions to be anything. Anyone authorized to use the service should be in the same group as the service. On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 7:36 PM, paul g wrote: Again I am sorry to repost BUT the following should be noted: I am using a majic jack based telephone line system 'VOIP', I have adjusted the MFC-295CN to 9600 baud rate 'fax', I do of course have a high speed ethernet connection, Your help is always appreciated. Thank you for your time, Paul G From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:16:31 -0600 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' I just preformed a 'chmod' command and permissions NOW look like this for the file: located under: deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ -rwxrw-rw- 1 root deb 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter command I entered was: sudo chmod go-x brfaxfilter to remove execute. rebooted the machine same thing still shows up in Cups. Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:58:10 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' ls -l of /usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter Looks like you have a sticky bit set and have it 'rwx' for all. It really only probably needs to be 'rw-' for owner and group, and then any user who is allowed to use it should be in that group. There should be no need for a sticky bit to be set. On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM, paul g wrote: I have successfully installed the 'CUPS' and the appropriate drivers for a model 'MFC-295CN' Brother printer. The machine is running kernel: Linux deb-desktop 3.2.0-59-generic #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux I can print documents properly as well as scan them using xsane. Test page printout work great! also 'full color'. My issue is with the accompanied 'BRFAX' which I have installed also uses 'Cups' is as follows: When I click on 'BRFAX' inside 'Cups' Reports an error: The error is as follows: 'shown in Cups' Stopped - File "/usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter" has insecure permissions (0100777/uid=0/gid=0). deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ ls -lah -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter dpkg -l | grep Brother ii brmfcfaxcups 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC/FAX fax share function driver ii brmfcfaxlpd 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC-FAX LPD driver ii brother-udev-rule-type1 1.0.0-1 Brother udev rule type 1 ii brscan-skey 0.2.4-1 Brother Linux scanner S-KEY tool ii brscan3 0.2.11-4 Brother Scanner Driver ii mfc295cncupswrapper 1.1.3-1 Brother CUPS Inkjet Printer Definitions ii mfc295cnlpr 1.1.3-1 Brother lpr Inkjet Printer Definitions ii printer-driver-ptouch 1.3-3ubuntu0.1 printer driver Brother P-touch label printers Any ideas on where to go from here? Thank You, Paul G _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.wagle at gmail.com Sat Mar 1 13:09:53 2014 From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:09:53 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about printing' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK -- so understanding the numbers on modes: There are three sets of permissions, those for the OWNER, the GROUP and WORLD. Each permission set is controlled by a bit string that is 4 bits long. If the first bit is a 1, then that group has read permissions. A bit string (base 2) of 0001 has a decimal value of 1 because 0x2^3 + 0x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 1x2^0 = 1 and corresponds to execute permission A bit string (base 2) of 0010 has a decimal value of 2 because 0x2^3 + 0x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 2 and corresponds to write permission A bit string (base 2) of 0100 has a decimal value of 4 because 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 4 and corresponds to read permission The fourth bit is used for special permissions like "the sticky bit" and is really beyond the basics. Now, because the values of 1, 2 and 4 are bit-independent, any combination of those values is the equivilant of 'OR'ing the bit strings. So, if we want read and write permission we want both 4 and 2. That is we want the bit mask to be 011. Which is 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 6. Which is what you get if you add 4 + 2. So a mask of, say 751 is RWX for Owner, R+X for Group and R for World. As for which link to follow --- without your box in front of me to troubleshoot, I really can't say "here's what to do." However, I'd start with setting your library to minimal permission since what you're getting is a permissions error. That would be at least as strict as 660. I would also then check that your users are in the same group as your print service -- which is usually 'wheel,' but not always. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:35 PM, paul g wrote: > David thanks for the great link and advice. > > I will reset world with command? 'chown root:root brfaxfilter' > > I will then 'chmod go+x' > > ???? > > Can you please recommend which area of the link you sent I should possibly > follow? > > There are chmod 555 and 700 's etc making me confused. > > I will restart 'cups' using the command 'sudo service cups restart' > > Thanks alot for your help with this. > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 00:11:02 -0600 > > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > Looks like you're not the only one to run into this: > > http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1368410.html > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:06 AM, David Wagle wrote: > > Also - you probably have to restart CUPS to have it re-read the library. > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:03 AM, David Wagle wrote: > > Paul - again, there's no reason for world permissions to be anything. > Anyone authorized to use the service should be in the same group as the > service. > > > On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 7:36 PM, paul g wrote: > > Again I am sorry to repost BUT the following should be noted: > > I am using a majic jack based telephone line system 'VOIP', > > I have adjusted the MFC-295CN to 9600 baud rate 'fax', > > I do of course have a high speed ethernet connection, > > Your help is always appreciated. > > Thank you for your time, > > Paul G > > > ------------------------------ > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:16:31 -0600 > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > I just preformed a 'chmod' command and permissions NOW look like this for > the file: > > located under: deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ > > -rwxrw-rw- 1 root deb 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter > > command I entered was: > > sudo chmod go-x brfaxfilter > > to remove execute. > > rebooted the machine same thing still shows up in Cups. > > ------------------------------ > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:58:10 -0600 > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > ls -l of /usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter > > Looks like you have a sticky bit set and have it 'rwx' for all. It really > only probably needs to be 'rw-' for owner and group, and then any user who > is allowed to use it should be in that group. There should be no need for > a sticky bit to be set. > > > > On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM, paul g wrote: > > I have successfully installed the 'CUPS' and the appropriate drivers for a > model 'MFC-295CN' Brother printer. > > The machine is running kernel: Linux deb-desktop 3.2.0-59-generic > #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux > > > I can print documents properly as well as scan them using xsane. Test page > printout work great! also 'full color'. > > My issue is with the accompanied 'BRFAX' which I have installed also uses > 'Cups' is as follows: > > When I click on 'BRFAX' inside 'Cups' > Reports an error: > > The error is as follows: 'shown in Cups' > > Stopped - File "/usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter" has insecure permissions > (0100777/uid=0/gid=0). > > deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ ls -lah > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter > > dpkg -l | grep Brother > > ii brmfcfaxcups > 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC/FAX fax share function > driver > ii brmfcfaxlpd > 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC-FAX LPD driver > ii brother-udev-rule-type1 > 1.0.0-1 Brother udev rule type 1 > ii brscan-skey > 0.2.4-1 Brother Linux scanner S-KEY tool > ii brscan3 > 0.2.11-4 Brother Scanner Driver > ii mfc295cncupswrapper > 1.1.3-1 Brother CUPS Inkjet Printer > Definitions > ii mfc295cnlpr > 1.1.3-1 Brother lpr Inkjet Printer > Definitions > ii printer-driver-ptouch > 1.3-3ubuntu0.1 printer driver Brother P-touch > label printers > > Any ideas on where to go from here? > > Thank You, > > Paul G > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlunde at gmail.com Sat Mar 1 13:19:27 2014 From: tlunde at gmail.com (T L) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:19:27 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about printing' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: FYI: Some documentation refers to the third set of permissions as "other" or "all" rather than as "world." Thomas On Mar 1, 2014 1:10 PM, "David Wagle" wrote: > OK -- so understanding the numbers on modes: > > There are three sets of permissions, those for the OWNER, the GROUP and > WORLD. > > Each permission set is controlled by a bit string that is 4 bits long. > > If the first bit is a 1, then that group has read permissions. > > A bit string (base 2) of 0001 has a decimal value of 1 because 0x2^3 + > 0x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 1x2^0 = 1 and corresponds to execute permission > > A bit string (base 2) of 0010 has a decimal value of 2 because 0x2^3 + > 0x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 2 and corresponds to write permission > > A bit string (base 2) of 0100 has a decimal value of 4 because 0x2^3 + > 1x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 4 and corresponds to read permission > > The fourth bit is used for special permissions like "the sticky bit" and > is really beyond the basics. > > Now, because the values of 1, 2 and 4 are bit-independent, any combination > of those values is the equivilant of 'OR'ing the bit strings. > > So, if we want read and write permission we want both 4 and 2. That is we > want the bit mask to be 011. Which is 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 6. > Which is what you get if you add 4 + 2. > > So a mask of, say 751 is RWX for Owner, R+X for Group and R for World. > > As for which link to follow --- without your box in front of me to > troubleshoot, I really can't say "here's what to do." > > However, I'd start with setting your library to minimal permission since > what you're getting is a permissions error. That would be at least as > strict as 660. > > I would also then check that your users are in the same group as your > print service -- which is usually 'wheel,' but not always. > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:35 PM, paul g wrote: > >> David thanks for the great link and advice. >> >> I will reset world with command? 'chown root:root brfaxfilter' >> >> I will then 'chmod go+x' >> >> ???? >> >> Can you please recommend which area of the link you sent I should >> possibly follow? >> >> There are chmod 555 and 700 's etc making me confused. >> >> I will restart 'cups' using the command 'sudo service cups restart' >> >> Thanks alot for your help with this. >> >> ------------------------------ >> Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 00:11:02 -0600 >> >> From: david.wagle at gmail.com >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' >> >> Looks like you're not the only one to run into this: >> >> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1368410.html >> >> >> On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:06 AM, David Wagle wrote: >> >> Also - you probably have to restart CUPS to have it re-read the library. >> >> >> On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:03 AM, David Wagle wrote: >> >> Paul - again, there's no reason for world permissions to be anything. >> Anyone authorized to use the service should be in the same group as the >> service. >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 7:36 PM, paul g wrote: >> >> Again I am sorry to repost BUT the following should be noted: >> >> I am using a majic jack based telephone line system 'VOIP', >> >> I have adjusted the MFC-295CN to 9600 baud rate 'fax', >> >> I do of course have a high speed ethernet connection, >> >> Your help is always appreciated. >> >> Thank you for your time, >> >> Paul G >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> From: pj.world at hotmail.com >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:16:31 -0600 >> >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' >> >> I just preformed a 'chmod' command and permissions NOW look like this for >> the file: >> >> located under: deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ >> >> -rwxrw-rw- 1 root deb 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter >> >> command I entered was: >> >> sudo chmod go-x brfaxfilter >> >> to remove execute. >> >> rebooted the machine same thing still shows up in Cups. >> >> ------------------------------ >> Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:58:10 -0600 >> From: david.wagle at gmail.com >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' >> >> ls -l of /usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter >> >> Looks like you have a sticky bit set and have it 'rwx' for all. It really >> only probably needs to be 'rw-' for owner and group, and then any user who >> is allowed to use it should be in that group. There should be no need for >> a sticky bit to be set. >> >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM, paul g wrote: >> >> I have successfully installed the 'CUPS' and the appropriate drivers for >> a model 'MFC-295CN' Brother printer. >> >> The machine is running kernel: Linux deb-desktop 3.2.0-59-generic >> #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux >> >> >> I can print documents properly as well as scan them using xsane. Test >> page printout work great! also 'full color'. >> >> My issue is with the accompanied 'BRFAX' which I have installed also uses >> 'Cups' is as follows: >> >> When I click on 'BRFAX' inside 'Cups' >> Reports an error: >> >> The error is as follows: 'shown in Cups' >> >> Stopped - File "/usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter" has insecure >> permissions (0100777/uid=0/gid=0). >> >> deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ ls -lah >> -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter >> >> dpkg -l | grep Brother >> >> ii brmfcfaxcups >> 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC/FAX fax share function >> driver >> ii brmfcfaxlpd >> 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC-FAX LPD driver >> ii brother-udev-rule-type1 >> 1.0.0-1 Brother udev rule type 1 >> ii brscan-skey >> 0.2.4-1 Brother Linux scanner S-KEY tool >> ii brscan3 >> 0.2.11-4 Brother Scanner Driver >> ii mfc295cncupswrapper >> 1.1.3-1 Brother CUPS Inkjet Printer >> Definitions >> ii mfc295cnlpr >> 1.1.3-1 Brother lpr Inkjet Printer >> Definitions >> ii printer-driver-ptouch >> 1.3-3ubuntu0.1 printer driver Brother P-touch >> label printers >> >> Any ideas on where to go from here? >> >> Thank You, >> >> Paul G >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.wagle at gmail.com Sat Mar 1 13:20:27 2014 From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:20:27 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about printing' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I should add -- unless you have reason to do so, don't change the group ownership. Rather, limit the permissions to that group. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:09 PM, David Wagle wrote: > OK -- so understanding the numbers on modes: > > There are three sets of permissions, those for the OWNER, the GROUP and > WORLD. > > Each permission set is controlled by a bit string that is 4 bits long. > > If the first bit is a 1, then that group has read permissions. > > A bit string (base 2) of 0001 has a decimal value of 1 because 0x2^3 + > 0x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 1x2^0 = 1 and corresponds to execute permission > > A bit string (base 2) of 0010 has a decimal value of 2 because 0x2^3 + > 0x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 2 and corresponds to write permission > > A bit string (base 2) of 0100 has a decimal value of 4 because 0x2^3 + > 1x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 4 and corresponds to read permission > > The fourth bit is used for special permissions like "the sticky bit" and > is really beyond the basics. > > Now, because the values of 1, 2 and 4 are bit-independent, any combination > of those values is the equivilant of 'OR'ing the bit strings. > > So, if we want read and write permission we want both 4 and 2. That is we > want the bit mask to be 011. Which is 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 6. > Which is what you get if you add 4 + 2. > > So a mask of, say 751 is RWX for Owner, R+X for Group and R for World. > > As for which link to follow --- without your box in front of me to > troubleshoot, I really can't say "here's what to do." > > However, I'd start with setting your library to minimal permission since > what you're getting is a permissions error. That would be at least as > strict as 660. > > I would also then check that your users are in the same group as your > print service -- which is usually 'wheel,' but not always. > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:35 PM, paul g wrote: > >> David thanks for the great link and advice. >> >> I will reset world with command? 'chown root:root brfaxfilter' >> >> I will then 'chmod go+x' >> >> ???? >> >> Can you please recommend which area of the link you sent I should >> possibly follow? >> >> There are chmod 555 and 700 's etc making me confused. >> >> I will restart 'cups' using the command 'sudo service cups restart' >> >> Thanks alot for your help with this. >> >> ------------------------------ >> Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 00:11:02 -0600 >> >> From: david.wagle at gmail.com >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' >> >> Looks like you're not the only one to run into this: >> >> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1368410.html >> >> >> On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:06 AM, David Wagle wrote: >> >> Also - you probably have to restart CUPS to have it re-read the library. >> >> >> On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:03 AM, David Wagle wrote: >> >> Paul - again, there's no reason for world permissions to be anything. >> Anyone authorized to use the service should be in the same group as the >> service. >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 7:36 PM, paul g wrote: >> >> Again I am sorry to repost BUT the following should be noted: >> >> I am using a majic jack based telephone line system 'VOIP', >> >> I have adjusted the MFC-295CN to 9600 baud rate 'fax', >> >> I do of course have a high speed ethernet connection, >> >> Your help is always appreciated. >> >> Thank you for your time, >> >> Paul G >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> From: pj.world at hotmail.com >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:16:31 -0600 >> >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' >> >> I just preformed a 'chmod' command and permissions NOW look like this for >> the file: >> >> located under: deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ >> >> -rwxrw-rw- 1 root deb 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter >> >> command I entered was: >> >> sudo chmod go-x brfaxfilter >> >> to remove execute. >> >> rebooted the machine same thing still shows up in Cups. >> >> ------------------------------ >> Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:58:10 -0600 >> From: david.wagle at gmail.com >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' >> >> ls -l of /usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter >> >> Looks like you have a sticky bit set and have it 'rwx' for all. It really >> only probably needs to be 'rw-' for owner and group, and then any user who >> is allowed to use it should be in that group. There should be no need for >> a sticky bit to be set. >> >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM, paul g wrote: >> >> I have successfully installed the 'CUPS' and the appropriate drivers for >> a model 'MFC-295CN' Brother printer. >> >> The machine is running kernel: Linux deb-desktop 3.2.0-59-generic >> #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux >> >> >> I can print documents properly as well as scan them using xsane. Test >> page printout work great! also 'full color'. >> >> My issue is with the accompanied 'BRFAX' which I have installed also uses >> 'Cups' is as follows: >> >> When I click on 'BRFAX' inside 'Cups' >> Reports an error: >> >> The error is as follows: 'shown in Cups' >> >> Stopped - File "/usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter" has insecure >> permissions (0100777/uid=0/gid=0). >> >> deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ ls -lah >> -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter >> >> dpkg -l | grep Brother >> >> ii brmfcfaxcups >> 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC/FAX fax share function >> driver >> ii brmfcfaxlpd >> 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC-FAX LPD driver >> ii brother-udev-rule-type1 >> 1.0.0-1 Brother udev rule type 1 >> ii brscan-skey >> 0.2.4-1 Brother Linux scanner S-KEY tool >> ii brscan3 >> 0.2.11-4 Brother Scanner Driver >> ii mfc295cncupswrapper >> 1.1.3-1 Brother CUPS Inkjet Printer >> Definitions >> ii mfc295cnlpr >> 1.1.3-1 Brother lpr Inkjet Printer >> Definitions >> ii printer-driver-ptouch >> 1.3-3ubuntu0.1 printer driver Brother P-touch >> label printers >> >> Any ideas on where to go from here? >> >> Thank You, >> >> Paul G >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sat Mar 1 13:41:36 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:41:36 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about printing' In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , , , , Message-ID: Very Very solid advice if I do say so myself. This is a bit over my head but I will try to figure it out. Thanks for all your help. Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:20:27 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' I should add -- unless you have reason to do so, don't change the group ownership. Rather, limit the permissions to that group. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:09 PM, David Wagle wrote: OK -- so understanding the numbers on modes: There are three sets of permissions, those for the OWNER, the GROUP and WORLD. Each permission set is controlled by a bit string that is 4 bits long. If the first bit is a 1, then that group has read permissions. A bit string (base 2) of 0001 has a decimal value of 1 because 0x2^3 + 0x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 1x2^0 = 1 and corresponds to execute permission A bit string (base 2) of 0010 has a decimal value of 2 because 0x2^3 + 0x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 2 and corresponds to write permission A bit string (base 2) of 0100 has a decimal value of 4 because 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 4 and corresponds to read permission The fourth bit is used for special permissions like "the sticky bit" and is really beyond the basics. Now, because the values of 1, 2 and 4 are bit-independent, any combination of those values is the equivilant of 'OR'ing the bit strings. So, if we want read and write permission we want both 4 and 2. That is we want the bit mask to be 011. Which is 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 6. Which is what you get if you add 4 + 2. So a mask of, say 751 is RWX for Owner, R+X for Group and R for World. As for which link to follow --- without your box in front of me to troubleshoot, I really can't say "here's what to do." However, I'd start with setting your library to minimal permission since what you're getting is a permissions error. That would be at least as strict as 660. I would also then check that your users are in the same group as your print service -- which is usually 'wheel,' but not always. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:35 PM, paul g wrote: David thanks for the great link and advice. I will reset world with command? 'chown root:root brfaxfilter' I will then 'chmod go+x' ???? Can you please recommend which area of the link you sent I should possibly follow? There are chmod 555 and 700 's etc making me confused. I will restart 'cups' using the command 'sudo service cups restart' Thanks alot for your help with this. Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 00:11:02 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' Looks like you're not the only one to run into this: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1368410.html On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:06 AM, David Wagle wrote: Also - you probably have to restart CUPS to have it re-read the library. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:03 AM, David Wagle wrote: Paul - again, there's no reason for world permissions to be anything. Anyone authorized to use the service should be in the same group as the service. On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 7:36 PM, paul g wrote: Again I am sorry to repost BUT the following should be noted: I am using a majic jack based telephone line system 'VOIP', I have adjusted the MFC-295CN to 9600 baud rate 'fax', I do of course have a high speed ethernet connection, Your help is always appreciated. Thank you for your time, Paul G From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:16:31 -0600 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' I just preformed a 'chmod' command and permissions NOW look like this for the file: located under: deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ -rwxrw-rw- 1 root deb 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter command I entered was: sudo chmod go-x brfaxfilter to remove execute. rebooted the machine same thing still shows up in Cups. Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:58:10 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' ls -l of /usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter Looks like you have a sticky bit set and have it 'rwx' for all. It really only probably needs to be 'rw-' for owner and group, and then any user who is allowed to use it should be in that group. There should be no need for a sticky bit to be set. On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM, paul g wrote: I have successfully installed the 'CUPS' and the appropriate drivers for a model 'MFC-295CN' Brother printer. The machine is running kernel: Linux deb-desktop 3.2.0-59-generic #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux I can print documents properly as well as scan them using xsane. Test page printout work great! also 'full color'. My issue is with the accompanied 'BRFAX' which I have installed also uses 'Cups' is as follows: When I click on 'BRFAX' inside 'Cups' Reports an error: The error is as follows: 'shown in Cups' Stopped - File "/usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter" has insecure permissions (0100777/uid=0/gid=0). deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ ls -lah -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter dpkg -l | grep Brother ii brmfcfaxcups 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC/FAX fax share function driver ii brmfcfaxlpd 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC-FAX LPD driver ii brother-udev-rule-type1 1.0.0-1 Brother udev rule type 1 ii brscan-skey 0.2.4-1 Brother Linux scanner S-KEY tool ii brscan3 0.2.11-4 Brother Scanner Driver ii mfc295cncupswrapper 1.1.3-1 Brother CUPS Inkjet Printer Definitions ii mfc295cnlpr 1.1.3-1 Brother lpr Inkjet Printer Definitions ii printer-driver-ptouch 1.3-3ubuntu0.1 printer driver Brother P-touch label printers Any ideas on where to go from here? Thank You, Paul G _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.wagle at gmail.com Sat Mar 1 13:52:54 2014 From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:52:54 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about printing' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Paul - try this: Open up a terminal mkdir a play space: $mkdir ~/testdir go there: $cd ~/testdir create a file: $touch test Look at it: $ls -l test -rw------- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test play with chmod: $chmod 110 test and see what it does: $ls -l test ---x--x--- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test try other values: $ chmod 421 test and see what they do: $ ls -l test -r---w---x 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test keep playing around till you understand how the number relate to permissions. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:41 PM, paul g wrote: > Very Very solid advice if I do say so myself. This is a bit over my head > but I will try to figure it out. Thanks for all your help. > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:20:27 -0600 > > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > I should add -- unless you have reason to do so, don't change the group > ownership. Rather, limit the permissions to that group. > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:09 PM, David Wagle wrote: > > OK -- so understanding the numbers on modes: > > There are three sets of permissions, those for the OWNER, the GROUP and > WORLD. > > Each permission set is controlled by a bit string that is 4 bits long. > > If the first bit is a 1, then that group has read permissions. > > A bit string (base 2) of 0001 has a decimal value of 1 because 0x2^3 + > 0x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 1x2^0 = 1 and corresponds to execute permission > > A bit string (base 2) of 0010 has a decimal value of 2 because 0x2^3 + > 0x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 2 and corresponds to write permission > > A bit string (base 2) of 0100 has a decimal value of 4 because 0x2^3 + > 1x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 4 and corresponds to read permission > > The fourth bit is used for special permissions like "the sticky bit" and > is really beyond the basics. > > Now, because the values of 1, 2 and 4 are bit-independent, any combination > of those values is the equivilant of 'OR'ing the bit strings. > > So, if we want read and write permission we want both 4 and 2. That is we > want the bit mask to be 011. Which is 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 6. > Which is what you get if you add 4 + 2. > > So a mask of, say 751 is RWX for Owner, R+X for Group and R for World. > > As for which link to follow --- without your box in front of me to > troubleshoot, I really can't say "here's what to do." > > However, I'd start with setting your library to minimal permission since > what you're getting is a permissions error. That would be at least as > strict as 660. > > I would also then check that your users are in the same group as your > print service -- which is usually 'wheel,' but not always. > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:35 PM, paul g wrote: > > David thanks for the great link and advice. > > I will reset world with command? 'chown root:root brfaxfilter' > > I will then 'chmod go+x' > > ???? > > Can you please recommend which area of the link you sent I should possibly > follow? > > There are chmod 555 and 700 's etc making me confused. > > I will restart 'cups' using the command 'sudo service cups restart' > > Thanks alot for your help with this. > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 00:11:02 -0600 > > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > Looks like you're not the only one to run into this: > > http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1368410.html > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:06 AM, David Wagle wrote: > > Also - you probably have to restart CUPS to have it re-read the library. > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:03 AM, David Wagle wrote: > > Paul - again, there's no reason for world permissions to be anything. > Anyone authorized to use the service should be in the same group as the > service. > > > On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 7:36 PM, paul g wrote: > > Again I am sorry to repost BUT the following should be noted: > > I am using a majic jack based telephone line system 'VOIP', > > I have adjusted the MFC-295CN to 9600 baud rate 'fax', > > I do of course have a high speed ethernet connection, > > Your help is always appreciated. > > Thank you for your time, > > Paul G > > > ------------------------------ > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:16:31 -0600 > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > I just preformed a 'chmod' command and permissions NOW look like this for > the file: > > located under: deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ > > -rwxrw-rw- 1 root deb 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter > > command I entered was: > > sudo chmod go-x brfaxfilter > > to remove execute. > > rebooted the machine same thing still shows up in Cups. > > ------------------------------ > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:58:10 -0600 > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > ls -l of /usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter > > Looks like you have a sticky bit set and have it 'rwx' for all. It really > only probably needs to be 'rw-' for owner and group, and then any user who > is allowed to use it should be in that group. There should be no need for > a sticky bit to be set. > > > > On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM, paul g wrote: > > I have successfully installed the 'CUPS' and the appropriate drivers for a > model 'MFC-295CN' Brother printer. > > The machine is running kernel: Linux deb-desktop 3.2.0-59-generic > #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux > > > I can print documents properly as well as scan them using xsane. Test page > printout work great! also 'full color'. > > My issue is with the accompanied 'BRFAX' which I have installed also uses > 'Cups' is as follows: > > When I click on 'BRFAX' inside 'Cups' > Reports an error: > > The error is as follows: 'shown in Cups' > > Stopped - File "/usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter" has insecure permissions > (0100777/uid=0/gid=0). > > deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ ls -lah > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter > > dpkg -l | grep Brother > > ii brmfcfaxcups > 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC/FAX fax share function > driver > ii brmfcfaxlpd > 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC-FAX LPD driver > ii brother-udev-rule-type1 > 1.0.0-1 Brother udev rule type 1 > ii brscan-skey > 0.2.4-1 Brother Linux scanner S-KEY tool > ii brscan3 > 0.2.11-4 Brother Scanner Driver > ii mfc295cncupswrapper > 1.1.3-1 Brother CUPS Inkjet Printer > Definitions > ii mfc295cnlpr > 1.1.3-1 Brother lpr Inkjet Printer > Definitions > ii printer-driver-ptouch > 1.3-3ubuntu0.1 printer driver Brother P-touch > label printers > > Any ideas on where to go from here? > > Thank You, > > Paul G > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sat Mar 1 15:48:31 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 15:48:31 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about printing' In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , , , , , , Message-ID: Another question I have for you is about the 'http://localhost:631/admin/' command. When I enter that command into the browser on the pc upstairs 'which is wireless on a DHCP networked router'. The Brother MFC-295CN printer shows up 'which is connected via USB cable to the pc downstairs 'which is also connected wirelessly to the router using DHCP. Why the heck is that anyways? Thank you for caring and your help. Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:52:54 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' Paul - try this: Open up a terminal mkdir a play space: $mkdir ~/testdir go there: $cd ~/testdir create a file: $touch test Look at it: $ls -l test -rw------- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test play with chmod: $chmod 110 test and see what it does: $ls -l test ---x--x--- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test try other values: $ chmod 421 test and see what they do: $ ls -l test -r---w---x 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test keep playing around till you understand how the number relate to permissions. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:41 PM, paul g wrote: Very Very solid advice if I do say so myself. This is a bit over my head but I will try to figure it out. Thanks for all your help. Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:20:27 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' I should add -- unless you have reason to do so, don't change the group ownership. Rather, limit the permissions to that group. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:09 PM, David Wagle wrote: OK -- so understanding the numbers on modes: There are three sets of permissions, those for the OWNER, the GROUP and WORLD. Each permission set is controlled by a bit string that is 4 bits long. If the first bit is a 1, then that group has read permissions. A bit string (base 2) of 0001 has a decimal value of 1 because 0x2^3 + 0x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 1x2^0 = 1 and corresponds to execute permission A bit string (base 2) of 0010 has a decimal value of 2 because 0x2^3 + 0x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 2 and corresponds to write permission A bit string (base 2) of 0100 has a decimal value of 4 because 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 4 and corresponds to read permission The fourth bit is used for special permissions like "the sticky bit" and is really beyond the basics. Now, because the values of 1, 2 and 4 are bit-independent, any combination of those values is the equivilant of 'OR'ing the bit strings. So, if we want read and write permission we want both 4 and 2. That is we want the bit mask to be 011. Which is 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 6. Which is what you get if you add 4 + 2. So a mask of, say 751 is RWX for Owner, R+X for Group and R for World. As for which link to follow --- without your box in front of me to troubleshoot, I really can't say "here's what to do." However, I'd start with setting your library to minimal permission since what you're getting is a permissions error. That would be at least as strict as 660. I would also then check that your users are in the same group as your print service -- which is usually 'wheel,' but not always. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:35 PM, paul g wrote: David thanks for the great link and advice. I will reset world with command? 'chown root:root brfaxfilter' I will then 'chmod go+x' ???? Can you please recommend which area of the link you sent I should possibly follow? There are chmod 555 and 700 's etc making me confused. I will restart 'cups' using the command 'sudo service cups restart' Thanks alot for your help with this. Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 00:11:02 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' Looks like you're not the only one to run into this: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1368410.html On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:06 AM, David Wagle wrote: Also - you probably have to restart CUPS to have it re-read the library. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:03 AM, David Wagle wrote: Paul - again, there's no reason for world permissions to be anything. Anyone authorized to use the service should be in the same group as the service. On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 7:36 PM, paul g wrote: Again I am sorry to repost BUT the following should be noted: I am using a majic jack based telephone line system 'VOIP', I have adjusted the MFC-295CN to 9600 baud rate 'fax', I do of course have a high speed ethernet connection, Your help is always appreciated. Thank you for your time, Paul G From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:16:31 -0600 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' I just preformed a 'chmod' command and permissions NOW look like this for the file: located under: deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ -rwxrw-rw- 1 root deb 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter command I entered was: sudo chmod go-x brfaxfilter to remove execute. rebooted the machine same thing still shows up in Cups. Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:58:10 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' ls -l of /usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter Looks like you have a sticky bit set and have it 'rwx' for all. It really only probably needs to be 'rw-' for owner and group, and then any user who is allowed to use it should be in that group. There should be no need for a sticky bit to be set. On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM, paul g wrote: I have successfully installed the 'CUPS' and the appropriate drivers for a model 'MFC-295CN' Brother printer. The machine is running kernel: Linux deb-desktop 3.2.0-59-generic #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux I can print documents properly as well as scan them using xsane. Test page printout work great! also 'full color'. My issue is with the accompanied 'BRFAX' which I have installed also uses 'Cups' is as follows: When I click on 'BRFAX' inside 'Cups' Reports an error: The error is as follows: 'shown in Cups' Stopped - File "/usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter" has insecure permissions (0100777/uid=0/gid=0). deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ ls -lah -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter dpkg -l | grep Brother ii brmfcfaxcups 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC/FAX fax share function driver ii brmfcfaxlpd 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC-FAX LPD driver ii brother-udev-rule-type1 1.0.0-1 Brother udev rule type 1 ii brscan-skey 0.2.4-1 Brother Linux scanner S-KEY tool ii brscan3 0.2.11-4 Brother Scanner Driver ii mfc295cncupswrapper 1.1.3-1 Brother CUPS Inkjet Printer Definitions ii mfc295cnlpr 1.1.3-1 Brother lpr Inkjet Printer Definitions ii printer-driver-ptouch 1.3-3ubuntu0.1 printer driver Brother P-touch label printers Any ideas on where to go from here? Thank You, Paul G _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.wagle at gmail.com Sat Mar 1 15:58:37 2014 From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 15:58:37 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about printing' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Because you have it configured to share that printer to the network On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 3:48 PM, paul g wrote: > Another question I have for you is about the 'http://localhost:631/admin/'command. > > When I enter that command into the browser on the pc upstairs 'which is > wireless on a DHCP networked router'. The Brother MFC-295CN printer shows > up 'which is connected via USB cable to the pc downstairs 'which is also > connected wirelessly to the router using DHCP. Why the heck is that anyways? > > Thank you for caring and your help. > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:52:54 -0600 > > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > Paul - try this: > > Open up a terminal > mkdir a play space: $mkdir ~/testdir > go there: $cd ~/testdir > > create a file: $touch test > > Look at it: $ls -l test > > -rw------- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test > > play with chmod: $chmod 110 test > and see what it does: $ls -l test > > ---x--x--- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test > > try other values: $ chmod 421 test > and see what they do: $ ls -l test > > -r---w---x 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test > > keep playing around till you understand how the number relate to > permissions. > > > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:41 PM, paul g wrote: > > Very Very solid advice if I do say so myself. This is a bit over my head > but I will try to figure it out. Thanks for all your help. > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:20:27 -0600 > > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > I should add -- unless you have reason to do so, don't change the group > ownership. Rather, limit the permissions to that group. > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:09 PM, David Wagle wrote: > > OK -- so understanding the numbers on modes: > > There are three sets of permissions, those for the OWNER, the GROUP and > WORLD. > > Each permission set is controlled by a bit string that is 4 bits long. > > If the first bit is a 1, then that group has read permissions. > > A bit string (base 2) of 0001 has a decimal value of 1 because 0x2^3 + > 0x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 1x2^0 = 1 and corresponds to execute permission > > A bit string (base 2) of 0010 has a decimal value of 2 because 0x2^3 + > 0x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 2 and corresponds to write permission > > A bit string (base 2) of 0100 has a decimal value of 4 because 0x2^3 + > 1x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 4 and corresponds to read permission > > The fourth bit is used for special permissions like "the sticky bit" and > is really beyond the basics. > > Now, because the values of 1, 2 and 4 are bit-independent, any combination > of those values is the equivilant of 'OR'ing the bit strings. > > So, if we want read and write permission we want both 4 and 2. That is we > want the bit mask to be 011. Which is 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 6. > Which is what you get if you add 4 + 2. > > So a mask of, say 751 is RWX for Owner, R+X for Group and R for World. > > As for which link to follow --- without your box in front of me to > troubleshoot, I really can't say "here's what to do." > > However, I'd start with setting your library to minimal permission since > what you're getting is a permissions error. That would be at least as > strict as 660. > > I would also then check that your users are in the same group as your > print service -- which is usually 'wheel,' but not always. > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:35 PM, paul g wrote: > > David thanks for the great link and advice. > > I will reset world with command? 'chown root:root brfaxfilter' > > I will then 'chmod go+x' > > ???? > > Can you please recommend which area of the link you sent I should possibly > follow? > > There are chmod 555 and 700 's etc making me confused. > > I will restart 'cups' using the command 'sudo service cups restart' > > Thanks alot for your help with this. > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 00:11:02 -0600 > > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > Looks like you're not the only one to run into this: > > http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1368410.html > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:06 AM, David Wagle wrote: > > Also - you probably have to restart CUPS to have it re-read the library. > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:03 AM, David Wagle wrote: > > Paul - again, there's no reason for world permissions to be anything. > Anyone authorized to use the service should be in the same group as the > service. > > > On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 7:36 PM, paul g wrote: > > Again I am sorry to repost BUT the following should be noted: > > I am using a majic jack based telephone line system 'VOIP', > > I have adjusted the MFC-295CN to 9600 baud rate 'fax', > > I do of course have a high speed ethernet connection, > > Your help is always appreciated. > > Thank you for your time, > > Paul G > > > ------------------------------ > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:16:31 -0600 > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > I just preformed a 'chmod' command and permissions NOW look like this for > the file: > > located under: deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ > > -rwxrw-rw- 1 root deb 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter > > command I entered was: > > sudo chmod go-x brfaxfilter > > to remove execute. > > rebooted the machine same thing still shows up in Cups. > > ------------------------------ > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:58:10 -0600 > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > ls -l of /usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter > > Looks like you have a sticky bit set and have it 'rwx' for all. It really > only probably needs to be 'rw-' for owner and group, and then any user who > is allowed to use it should be in that group. There should be no need for > a sticky bit to be set. > > > > On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM, paul g wrote: > > I have successfully installed the 'CUPS' and the appropriate drivers for a > model 'MFC-295CN' Brother printer. > > The machine is running kernel: Linux deb-desktop 3.2.0-59-generic > #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux > > > I can print documents properly as well as scan them using xsane. Test page > printout work great! also 'full color'. > > My issue is with the accompanied 'BRFAX' which I have installed also uses > 'Cups' is as follows: > > When I click on 'BRFAX' inside 'Cups' > Reports an error: > > The error is as follows: 'shown in Cups' > > Stopped - File "/usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter" has insecure permissions > (0100777/uid=0/gid=0). > > deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ ls -lah > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter > > dpkg -l | grep Brother > > ii brmfcfaxcups > 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC/FAX fax share function > driver > ii brmfcfaxlpd > 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC-FAX LPD driver > ii brother-udev-rule-type1 > 1.0.0-1 Brother udev rule type 1 > ii brscan-skey > 0.2.4-1 Brother Linux scanner S-KEY tool > ii brscan3 > 0.2.11-4 Brother Scanner Driver > ii mfc295cncupswrapper > 1.1.3-1 Brother CUPS Inkjet Printer > Definitions > ii mfc295cnlpr > 1.1.3-1 Brother lpr Inkjet Printer > Definitions > ii printer-driver-ptouch > 1.3-3ubuntu0.1 printer driver Brother P-touch > label printers > > Any ideas on where to go from here? > > Thank You, > > Paul G > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sat Mar 1 16:37:33 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 16:37:33 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about printing' In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , , , , , , , , Message-ID: I sure have learned some stuff today. I am going to have to work on understanding permissions alot. So what kindof relevance does any of the 'printers on board wireless dhcp/ip settings have at this point'? Is that mainly to setup the printer for a Windows wireless printing situation? Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 15:58:37 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' Because you have it configured to share that printer to the network On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 3:48 PM, paul g wrote: Another question I have for you is about the 'http://localhost:631/admin/' command. When I enter that command into the browser on the pc upstairs 'which is wireless on a DHCP networked router'. The Brother MFC-295CN printer shows up 'which is connected via USB cable to the pc downstairs 'which is also connected wirelessly to the router using DHCP. Why the heck is that anyways? Thank you for caring and your help. Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:52:54 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' Paul - try this: Open up a terminal mkdir a play space: $mkdir ~/testdir go there: $cd ~/testdir create a file: $touch test Look at it: $ls -l test -rw------- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test play with chmod: $chmod 110 test and see what it does: $ls -l test ---x--x--- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test try other values: $ chmod 421 test and see what they do: $ ls -l test -r---w---x 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test keep playing around till you understand how the number relate to permissions. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:41 PM, paul g wrote: Very Very solid advice if I do say so myself. This is a bit over my head but I will try to figure it out. Thanks for all your help. Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:20:27 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' I should add -- unless you have reason to do so, don't change the group ownership. Rather, limit the permissions to that group. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:09 PM, David Wagle wrote: OK -- so understanding the numbers on modes: There are three sets of permissions, those for the OWNER, the GROUP and WORLD. Each permission set is controlled by a bit string that is 4 bits long. If the first bit is a 1, then that group has read permissions. A bit string (base 2) of 0001 has a decimal value of 1 because 0x2^3 + 0x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 1x2^0 = 1 and corresponds to execute permission A bit string (base 2) of 0010 has a decimal value of 2 because 0x2^3 + 0x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 2 and corresponds to write permission A bit string (base 2) of 0100 has a decimal value of 4 because 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 4 and corresponds to read permission The fourth bit is used for special permissions like "the sticky bit" and is really beyond the basics. Now, because the values of 1, 2 and 4 are bit-independent, any combination of those values is the equivilant of 'OR'ing the bit strings. So, if we want read and write permission we want both 4 and 2. That is we want the bit mask to be 011. Which is 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 6. Which is what you get if you add 4 + 2. So a mask of, say 751 is RWX for Owner, R+X for Group and R for World. As for which link to follow --- without your box in front of me to troubleshoot, I really can't say "here's what to do." However, I'd start with setting your library to minimal permission since what you're getting is a permissions error. That would be at least as strict as 660. I would also then check that your users are in the same group as your print service -- which is usually 'wheel,' but not always. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:35 PM, paul g wrote: David thanks for the great link and advice. I will reset world with command? 'chown root:root brfaxfilter' I will then 'chmod go+x' ???? Can you please recommend which area of the link you sent I should possibly follow? There are chmod 555 and 700 's etc making me confused. I will restart 'cups' using the command 'sudo service cups restart' Thanks alot for your help with this. Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 00:11:02 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' Looks like you're not the only one to run into this: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1368410.html On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:06 AM, David Wagle wrote: Also - you probably have to restart CUPS to have it re-read the library. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:03 AM, David Wagle wrote: Paul - again, there's no reason for world permissions to be anything. Anyone authorized to use the service should be in the same group as the service. On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 7:36 PM, paul g wrote: Again I am sorry to repost BUT the following should be noted: I am using a majic jack based telephone line system 'VOIP', I have adjusted the MFC-295CN to 9600 baud rate 'fax', I do of course have a high speed ethernet connection, Your help is always appreciated. Thank you for your time, Paul G From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:16:31 -0600 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' I just preformed a 'chmod' command and permissions NOW look like this for the file: located under: deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ -rwxrw-rw- 1 root deb 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter command I entered was: sudo chmod go-x brfaxfilter to remove execute. rebooted the machine same thing still shows up in Cups. Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:58:10 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' ls -l of /usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter Looks like you have a sticky bit set and have it 'rwx' for all. It really only probably needs to be 'rw-' for owner and group, and then any user who is allowed to use it should be in that group. There should be no need for a sticky bit to be set. On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM, paul g wrote: I have successfully installed the 'CUPS' and the appropriate drivers for a model 'MFC-295CN' Brother printer. The machine is running kernel: Linux deb-desktop 3.2.0-59-generic #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux I can print documents properly as well as scan them using xsane. Test page printout work great! also 'full color'. My issue is with the accompanied 'BRFAX' which I have installed also uses 'Cups' is as follows: When I click on 'BRFAX' inside 'Cups' Reports an error: The error is as follows: 'shown in Cups' Stopped - File "/usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter" has insecure permissions (0100777/uid=0/gid=0). deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ ls -lah -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter dpkg -l | grep Brother ii brmfcfaxcups 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC/FAX fax share function driver ii brmfcfaxlpd 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC-FAX LPD driver ii brother-udev-rule-type1 1.0.0-1 Brother udev rule type 1 ii brscan-skey 0.2.4-1 Brother Linux scanner S-KEY tool ii brscan3 0.2.11-4 Brother Scanner Driver ii mfc295cncupswrapper 1.1.3-1 Brother CUPS Inkjet Printer Definitions ii mfc295cnlpr 1.1.3-1 Brother lpr Inkjet Printer Definitions ii printer-driver-ptouch 1.3-3ubuntu0.1 printer driver Brother P-touch label printers Any ideas on where to go from here? Thank You, Paul G _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sat Mar 1 17:00:50 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 17:00:50 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about printing' In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , Message-ID: I suppose the printer could be alone in a room unattached to only a ac outlet and then it could be setup to talk with the wireless router and then the desktop computers can communicate with the printer through the router somehow kindof like setting up a wireless printing in windows 7? From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 16:37:33 -0600 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' I sure have learned some stuff today. I am going to have to work on understanding permissions alot. So what kindof relevance does any of the 'printers on board wireless dhcp/ip settings have at this point'? Is that mainly to setup the printer for a Windows wireless printing situation? Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 15:58:37 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' Because you have it configured to share that printer to the network On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 3:48 PM, paul g wrote: Another question I have for you is about the 'http://localhost:631/admin/' command. When I enter that command into the browser on the pc upstairs 'which is wireless on a DHCP networked router'. The Brother MFC-295CN printer shows up 'which is connected via USB cable to the pc downstairs 'which is also connected wirelessly to the router using DHCP. Why the heck is that anyways? Thank you for caring and your help. Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:52:54 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' Paul - try this: Open up a terminal mkdir a play space: $mkdir ~/testdir go there: $cd ~/testdir create a file: $touch test Look at it: $ls -l test -rw------- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test play with chmod: $chmod 110 test and see what it does: $ls -l test ---x--x--- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test try other values: $ chmod 421 test and see what they do: $ ls -l test -r---w---x 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test keep playing around till you understand how the number relate to permissions. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:41 PM, paul g wrote: Very Very solid advice if I do say so myself. This is a bit over my head but I will try to figure it out. Thanks for all your help. Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:20:27 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' I should add -- unless you have reason to do so, don't change the group ownership. Rather, limit the permissions to that group. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:09 PM, David Wagle wrote: OK -- so understanding the numbers on modes: There are three sets of permissions, those for the OWNER, the GROUP and WORLD. Each permission set is controlled by a bit string that is 4 bits long. If the first bit is a 1, then that group has read permissions. A bit string (base 2) of 0001 has a decimal value of 1 because 0x2^3 + 0x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 1x2^0 = 1 and corresponds to execute permission A bit string (base 2) of 0010 has a decimal value of 2 because 0x2^3 + 0x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 2 and corresponds to write permission A bit string (base 2) of 0100 has a decimal value of 4 because 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 4 and corresponds to read permission The fourth bit is used for special permissions like "the sticky bit" and is really beyond the basics. Now, because the values of 1, 2 and 4 are bit-independent, any combination of those values is the equivilant of 'OR'ing the bit strings. So, if we want read and write permission we want both 4 and 2. That is we want the bit mask to be 011. Which is 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 6. Which is what you get if you add 4 + 2. So a mask of, say 751 is RWX for Owner, R+X for Group and R for World. As for which link to follow --- without your box in front of me to troubleshoot, I really can't say "here's what to do." However, I'd start with setting your library to minimal permission since what you're getting is a permissions error. That would be at least as strict as 660. I would also then check that your users are in the same group as your print service -- which is usually 'wheel,' but not always. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:35 PM, paul g wrote: David thanks for the great link and advice. I will reset world with command? 'chown root:root brfaxfilter' I will then 'chmod go+x' ???? Can you please recommend which area of the link you sent I should possibly follow? There are chmod 555 and 700 's etc making me confused. I will restart 'cups' using the command 'sudo service cups restart' Thanks alot for your help with this. Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 00:11:02 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' Looks like you're not the only one to run into this: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1368410.html On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:06 AM, David Wagle wrote: Also - you probably have to restart CUPS to have it re-read the library. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:03 AM, David Wagle wrote: Paul - again, there's no reason for world permissions to be anything. Anyone authorized to use the service should be in the same group as the service. On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 7:36 PM, paul g wrote: Again I am sorry to repost BUT the following should be noted: I am using a majic jack based telephone line system 'VOIP', I have adjusted the MFC-295CN to 9600 baud rate 'fax', I do of course have a high speed ethernet connection, Your help is always appreciated. Thank you for your time, Paul G From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:16:31 -0600 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' I just preformed a 'chmod' command and permissions NOW look like this for the file: located under: deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ -rwxrw-rw- 1 root deb 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter command I entered was: sudo chmod go-x brfaxfilter to remove execute. rebooted the machine same thing still shows up in Cups. Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:58:10 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' ls -l of /usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter Looks like you have a sticky bit set and have it 'rwx' for all. It really only probably needs to be 'rw-' for owner and group, and then any user who is allowed to use it should be in that group. There should be no need for a sticky bit to be set. On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM, paul g wrote: I have successfully installed the 'CUPS' and the appropriate drivers for a model 'MFC-295CN' Brother printer. The machine is running kernel: Linux deb-desktop 3.2.0-59-generic #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux I can print documents properly as well as scan them using xsane. Test page printout work great! also 'full color'. My issue is with the accompanied 'BRFAX' which I have installed also uses 'Cups' is as follows: When I click on 'BRFAX' inside 'Cups' Reports an error: The error is as follows: 'shown in Cups' Stopped - File "/usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter" has insecure permissions (0100777/uid=0/gid=0). deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ ls -lah -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter dpkg -l | grep Brother ii brmfcfaxcups 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC/FAX fax share function driver ii brmfcfaxlpd 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC-FAX LPD driver ii brother-udev-rule-type1 1.0.0-1 Brother udev rule type 1 ii brscan-skey 0.2.4-1 Brother Linux scanner S-KEY tool ii brscan3 0.2.11-4 Brother Scanner Driver ii mfc295cncupswrapper 1.1.3-1 Brother CUPS Inkjet Printer Definitions ii mfc295cnlpr 1.1.3-1 Brother lpr Inkjet Printer Definitions ii printer-driver-ptouch 1.3-3ubuntu0.1 printer driver Brother P-touch label printers Any ideas on where to go from here? Thank You, Paul G _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Sat Mar 1 20:43:43 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2014 20:43:43 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about printing' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3507DDE5-4DDF-4C0B-9A33-B8877D8F74A4@me.com> If it supports the correct protocols for Linux printing, yes. However a wireless Windows printer may not necessarily support anything else over WiFi. On Mar 1, 2014, at 5:00 PM, paul g wrote: > I suppose the printer could be alone in a room unattached to only a ac outlet and then it could be setup to talk with the wireless router and then the desktop computers can communicate with the printer through the router somehow kindof like setting up a wireless printing in windows 7? > > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 16:37:33 -0600 > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > I sure have learned some stuff today. I am going to have to work on understanding permissions alot. > > So what kindof relevance does any of the 'printers on board wireless dhcp/ip settings have at this point'? Is that mainly to setup the printer for a Windows wireless printing situation? > > > > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 15:58:37 -0600 > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > Because you have it configured to share that printer to the network > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 3:48 PM, paul g wrote: > Another question I have for you is about the 'http://localhost:631/admin/' command. > > When I enter that command into the browser on the pc upstairs 'which is wireless on a DHCP networked router'. The Brother MFC-295CN printer shows up 'which is connected via USB cable to the pc downstairs 'which is also connected wirelessly to the router using DHCP. Why the heck is that anyways? > > Thank you for caring and your help. > > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:52:54 -0600 > > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > Paul - try this: > > Open up a terminal > mkdir a play space: $mkdir ~/testdir > go there: $cd ~/testdir > > create a file: $touch test > > Look at it: $ls -l test > > -rw------- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test > > play with chmod: $chmod 110 test > and see what it does: $ls -l test > > ---x--x--- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test > > try other values: $ chmod 421 test > and see what they do: $ ls -l test > > -r---w---x 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test > > keep playing around till you understand how the number relate to permissions. > > > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:41 PM, paul g wrote: > Very Very solid advice if I do say so myself. This is a bit over my head but I will try to figure it out. Thanks for all your help. > > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:20:27 -0600 > > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > I should add -- unless you have reason to do so, don't change the group ownership. Rather, limit the permissions to that group. > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:09 PM, David Wagle wrote: > OK -- so understanding the numbers on modes: > > There are three sets of permissions, those for the OWNER, the GROUP and WORLD. > > Each permission set is controlled by a bit string that is 4 bits long. > > If the first bit is a 1, then that group has read permissions. > > A bit string (base 2) of 0001 has a decimal value of 1 because 0x2^3 + 0x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 1x2^0 = 1 and corresponds to execute permission > > A bit string (base 2) of 0010 has a decimal value of 2 because 0x2^3 + 0x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 2 and corresponds to write permission > > A bit string (base 2) of 0100 has a decimal value of 4 because 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 4 and corresponds to read permission > > The fourth bit is used for special permissions like "the sticky bit" and is really beyond the basics. > > Now, because the values of 1, 2 and 4 are bit-independent, any combination of those values is the equivilant of 'OR'ing the bit strings. > > So, if we want read and write permission we want both 4 and 2. That is we want the bit mask to be 011. Which is 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 6. Which is what you get if you add 4 + 2. > > So a mask of, say 751 is RWX for Owner, R+X for Group and R for World. > > As for which link to follow --- without your box in front of me to troubleshoot, I really can't say "here's what to do." > > However, I'd start with setting your library to minimal permission since what you're getting is a permissions error. That would be at least as strict as 660. > > I would also then check that your users are in the same group as your print service -- which is usually 'wheel,' but not always. > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:35 PM, paul g wrote: > David thanks for the great link and advice. > > I will reset world with command? 'chown root:root brfaxfilter' > > I will then 'chmod go+x' > > ???? > > Can you please recommend which area of the link you sent I should possibly follow? > > There are chmod 555 and 700 's etc making me confused. > > I will restart 'cups' using the command 'sudo service cups restart' > > Thanks alot for your help with this. > > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 00:11:02 -0600 > > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > Looks like you're not the only one to run into this: > > http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1368410.html > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:06 AM, David Wagle wrote: > Also - you probably have to restart CUPS to have it re-read the library. > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:03 AM, David Wagle wrote: > Paul - again, there's no reason for world permissions to be anything. Anyone authorized to use the service should be in the same group as the service. > > > On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 7:36 PM, paul g wrote: > Again I am sorry to repost BUT the following should be noted: > > I am using a majic jack based telephone line system 'VOIP', > > I have adjusted the MFC-295CN to 9600 baud rate 'fax', > > I do of course have a high speed ethernet connection, > > Your help is always appreciated. > > Thank you for your time, > > Paul G > > > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:16:31 -0600 > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > I just preformed a 'chmod' command and permissions NOW look like this for the file: > > located under: deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ > > -rwxrw-rw- 1 root deb 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter > > command I entered was: > > sudo chmod go-x brfaxfilter > > to remove execute. > > rebooted the machine same thing still shows up in Cups. > > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:58:10 -0600 > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > ls -l of /usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter > > Looks like you have a sticky bit set and have it 'rwx' for all. It really only probably needs to be 'rw-' for owner and group, and then any user who is allowed to use it should be in that group. There should be no need for a sticky bit to be set. > > > > On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM, paul g wrote: > I have successfully installed the 'CUPS' and the appropriate drivers for a model 'MFC-295CN' Brother printer. > > The machine is running kernel: Linux deb-desktop 3.2.0-59-generic #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux > > > I can print documents properly as well as scan them using xsane. Test page printout work great! also 'full color'. > > My issue is with the accompanied 'BRFAX' which I have installed also uses 'Cups' is as follows: > > When I click on 'BRFAX' inside 'Cups' > Reports an error: > > The error is as follows: 'shown in Cups' > > Stopped - File "/usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter" has insecure permissions (0100777/uid=0/gid=0). > > deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ ls -lah > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter > > dpkg -l | grep Brother > > ii brmfcfaxcups 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC/FAX fax share function driver > ii brmfcfaxlpd 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC-FAX LPD driver > ii brother-udev-rule-type1 1.0.0-1 Brother udev rule type 1 > ii brscan-skey 0.2.4-1 Brother Linux scanner S-KEY tool > ii brscan3 0.2.11-4 Brother Scanner Driver > ii mfc295cncupswrapper 1.1.3-1 Brother CUPS Inkjet Printer Definitions > ii mfc295cnlpr 1.1.3-1 Brother lpr Inkjet Printer Definitions > ii printer-driver-ptouch 1.3-3ubuntu0.1 printer driver Brother P-touch label printers > > Any ideas on where to go from here? > > Thank You, > > Paul G > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sat Mar 1 22:10:35 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 22:10:35 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about printing' In-Reply-To: <3507DDE5-4DDF-4C0B-9A33-B8877D8F74A4@me.com> References: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , <3507DDE5-4DDF-4C0B-9A33-B8877D8F74A4@me.com> Message-ID: Understood and thanks for your input on this matter as well. I am currently still having 'problems' with the BRN-295CN fax ability and yes it does show up upon entering 'http://localhost:631/printers' among my home network which is 'Cups' based at this time. You are correct Ryan because in order to setup a Windows based printer one must install software on the computer in order for it to talk with the router or perhaps ad-hoc in order for the wireless enabled printer to work'. Windows 7 was an example because me being a 'noob maybe very slow also' I attached a friends wireless printer to their home router on a Windows 7 computer recently and it was mind you difficult a bit. Are static ip addresses important when setting up a printer which is unattached physically from a print server 'the printer is alone in a room with no cords or cables except for the ac current'? So many questions. Thank you for your time. From: ryanjcole at me.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 20:43:43 -0600 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' If it supports the correct protocols for Linux printing, yes. However a wireless Windows printer may not necessarily support anything else over WiFi. On Mar 1, 2014, at 5:00 PM, paul g wrote:I suppose the printer could be alone in a room unattached to only a ac outlet and then it could be setup to talk with the wireless router and then the desktop computers can communicate with the printer through the router somehow kindof like setting up a wireless printing in windows 7? From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 16:37:33 -0600 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' I sure have learned some stuff today. I am going to have to work on understanding permissions alot. So what kindof relevance does any of the 'printers on board wireless dhcp/ip settings have at this point'? Is that mainly to setup the printer for a Windows wireless printing situation? Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 15:58:37 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' Because you have it configured to share that printer to the network On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 3:48 PM, paul g wrote: Another question I have for you is about the 'http://localhost:631/admin/' command. When I enter that command into the browser on the pc upstairs 'which is wireless on a DHCP networked router'. The Brother MFC-295CN printer shows up 'which is connected via USB cable to the pc downstairs 'which is also connected wirelessly to the router using DHCP. Why the heck is that anyways? Thank you for caring and your help. Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:52:54 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' Paul - try this: Open up a terminal mkdir a play space: $mkdir ~/testdir go there: $cd ~/testdir create a file: $touch test Look at it: $ls -l test -rw------- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test play with chmod: $chmod 110 test and see what it does: $ls -l test ---x--x--- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test try other values: $ chmod 421 test and see what they do: $ ls -l test -r---w---x 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test keep playing around till you understand how the number relate to permissions. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:41 PM, paul g wrote: Very Very solid advice if I do say so myself. This is a bit over my head but I will try to figure it out. Thanks for all your help. Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:20:27 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' I should add -- unless you have reason to do so, don't change the group ownership. Rather, limit the permissions to that group. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:09 PM, David Wagle wrote: OK -- so understanding the numbers on modes: There are three sets of permissions, those for the OWNER, the GROUP and WORLD. Each permission set is controlled by a bit string that is 4 bits long. If the first bit is a 1, then that group has read permissions. A bit string (base 2) of 0001 has a decimal value of 1 because 0x2^3 + 0x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 1x2^0 = 1 and corresponds to execute permission A bit string (base 2) of 0010 has a decimal value of 2 because 0x2^3 + 0x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 2 and corresponds to write permission A bit string (base 2) of 0100 has a decimal value of 4 because 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 4 and corresponds to read permission The fourth bit is used for special permissions like "the sticky bit" and is really beyond the basics. Now, because the values of 1, 2 and 4 are bit-independent, any combination of those values is the equivilant of 'OR'ing the bit strings. So, if we want read and write permission we want both 4 and 2. That is we want the bit mask to be 011. Which is 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 6. Which is what you get if you add 4 + 2. So a mask of, say 751 is RWX for Owner, R+X for Group and R for World. As for which link to follow --- without your box in front of me to troubleshoot, I really can't say "here's what to do." However, I'd start with setting your library to minimal permission since what you're getting is a permissions error. That would be at least as strict as 660. I would also then check that your users are in the same group as your print service -- which is usually 'wheel,' but not always. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:35 PM, paul g wrote: David thanks for the great link and advice. I will reset world with command? 'chown root:root brfaxfilter' I will then 'chmod go+x' ???? Can you please recommend which area of the link you sent I should possibly follow? There are chmod 555 and 700 's etc making me confused. I will restart 'cups' using the command 'sudo service cups restart' Thanks alot for your help with this. Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 00:11:02 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' Looks like you're not the only one to run into this: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1368410.html On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:06 AM, David Wagle wrote: Also - you probably have to restart CUPS to have it re-read the library. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:03 AM, David Wagle wrote: Paul - again, there's no reason for world permissions to be anything. Anyone authorized to use the service should be in the same group as the service. On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 7:36 PM, paul g wrote: Again I am sorry to repost BUT the following should be noted: I am using a majic jack based telephone line system 'VOIP', I have adjusted the MFC-295CN to 9600 baud rate 'fax', I do of course have a high speed ethernet connection, Your help is always appreciated. Thank you for your time, Paul G From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:16:31 -0600 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' I just preformed a 'chmod' command and permissions NOW look like this for the file: located under: deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ -rwxrw-rw- 1 root deb 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter command I entered was: sudo chmod go-x brfaxfilter to remove execute. rebooted the machine same thing still shows up in Cups. Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:58:10 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' ls -l of /usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter Looks like you have a sticky bit set and have it 'rwx' for all. It really only probably needs to be 'rw-' for owner and group, and then any user who is allowed to use it should be in that group. There should be no need for a sticky bit to be set. On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM, paul g wrote: I have successfully installed the 'CUPS' and the appropriate drivers for a model 'MFC-295CN' Brother printer. The machine is running kernel: Linux deb-desktop 3.2.0-59-generic #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux I can print documents properly as well as scan them using xsane. Test page printout work great! also 'full color'. My issue is with the accompanied 'BRFAX' which I have installed also uses 'Cups' is as follows: When I click on 'BRFAX' inside 'Cups' Reports an error: The error is as follows: 'shown in Cups' Stopped - File "/usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter" has insecure permissions (0100777/uid=0/gid=0). deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ ls -lah -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter dpkg -l | grep Brother ii brmfcfaxcups 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC/FAX fax share function driver ii brmfcfaxlpd 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC-FAX LPD driver ii brother-udev-rule-type1 1.0.0-1 Brother udev rule type 1 ii brscan-skey 0.2.4-1 Brother Linux scanner S-KEY tool ii brscan3 0.2.11-4 Brother Scanner Driver ii mfc295cncupswrapper 1.1.3-1 Brother CUPS Inkjet Printer Definitions ii mfc295cnlpr 1.1.3-1 Brother lpr Inkjet Printer Definitions ii printer-driver-ptouch 1.3-3ubuntu0.1 printer driver Brother P-touch label printers Any ideas on where to go from here? Thank You, Paul G _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list_______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Sat Mar 1 22:39:49 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2014 22:39:49 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about printing' In-Reply-To: References: <3507DDE5-4DDF-4C0B-9A33-B8877D8F74A4@me.com> Message-ID: <3760AD7A-82D2-48F0-AB48-39138F605E5D@me.com> On Mar 1, 2014, at 10:10 PM, paul g wrote: > Understood and thanks for your input on this matter as well. I am currently still having 'problems' with the BRN-295CN fax ability and yes it does show up upon entering 'http://localhost:631/printers' among my home network which is 'Cups' based at this time. You are correct Ryan because in order to setup a Windows based printer one must install software on the computer in order for it to talk with the router or perhaps ad-hoc in order for the wireless enabled printer to work?. That?s not what I meant. Drivers are implied, protocols are specific. My Mac, for example (the nearest thing I run to your setup) offers LPD, IPP and HP JetDirect (Socket) support. That?s what I mean. > Windows 7 was an example because me being a 'noob maybe very slow also' I attached a friends wireless printer to their home router on a Windows 7 computer recently and it was mind you difficult a bit. The print server is built into either: 1) the computer (if plugged in via USB, Parallel or Firewire) 2) the router (if plugged in via USB) 3) the printer (if WLAN or LAN-based) > Are static ip addresses important when setting up a printer which is unattached physically from a print server 'the printer is alone in a room with no cords or cables except for the ac current?? That depends on the protocol involved and what your computer is looking for. Many printers use Apple?s Bonjour and Windows? NETBIOS (I may be on the wrong announcer service here - there are so damn many in Windows) to tell the world they exist on a network. They are helpful sometimes but clutter traffic more often than not > So many questions. So many answers. > Thank you for your time. > > From: ryanjcole at me.com > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 20:43:43 -0600 > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > If it supports the correct protocols for Linux printing, yes. However a wireless Windows printer may not necessarily support anything else over WiFi. > > > On Mar 1, 2014, at 5:00 PM, paul g wrote: > > I suppose the printer could be alone in a room unattached to only a ac outlet and then it could be setup to talk with the wireless router and then the desktop computers can communicate with the printer through the router somehow kindof like setting up a wireless printing in windows 7? > > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 16:37:33 -0600 > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > I sure have learned some stuff today. I am going to have to work on understanding permissions alot. > > So what kindof relevance does any of the 'printers on board wireless dhcp/ip settings have at this point'? Is that mainly to setup the printer for a Windows wireless printing situation? > > > > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 15:58:37 -0600 > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > Because you have it configured to share that printer to the network > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 3:48 PM, paul g wrote: > Another question I have for you is about the 'http://localhost:631/admin/' command. > > When I enter that command into the browser on the pc upstairs 'which is wireless on a DHCP networked router'. The Brother MFC-295CN printer shows up 'which is connected via USB cable to the pc downstairs 'which is also connected wirelessly to the router using DHCP. Why the heck is that anyways? > > Thank you for caring and your help. > > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:52:54 -0600 > > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > Paul - try this: > > Open up a terminal > mkdir a play space: $mkdir ~/testdir > go there: $cd ~/testdir > > create a file: $touch test > > Look at it: $ls -l test > > -rw------- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test > > play with chmod: $chmod 110 test > and see what it does: $ls -l test > > ---x--x--- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test > > try other values: $ chmod 421 test > and see what they do: $ ls -l test > > -r---w---x 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test > > keep playing around till you understand how the number relate to permissions. > > > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:41 PM, paul g wrote: > Very Very solid advice if I do say so myself. This is a bit over my head but I will try to figure it out. Thanks for all your help. > > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:20:27 -0600 > > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > I should add -- unless you have reason to do so, don't change the group ownership. Rather, limit the permissions to that group. > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:09 PM, David Wagle wrote: > OK -- so understanding the numbers on modes: > > There are three sets of permissions, those for the OWNER, the GROUP and WORLD. > > Each permission set is controlled by a bit string that is 4 bits long. > > If the first bit is a 1, then that group has read permissions. > > A bit string (base 2) of 0001 has a decimal value of 1 because 0x2^3 + 0x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 1x2^0 = 1 and corresponds to execute permission > > A bit string (base 2) of 0010 has a decimal value of 2 because 0x2^3 + 0x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 2 and corresponds to write permission > > A bit string (base 2) of 0100 has a decimal value of 4 because 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 4 and corresponds to read permission > > The fourth bit is used for special permissions like "the sticky bit" and is really beyond the basics. > > Now, because the values of 1, 2 and 4 are bit-independent, any combination of those values is the equivilant of 'OR'ing the bit strings. > > So, if we want read and write permission we want both 4 and 2. That is we want the bit mask to be 011. Which is 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 6. Which is what you get if you add 4 + 2. > > So a mask of, say 751 is RWX for Owner, R+X for Group and R for World. > > As for which link to follow --- without your box in front of me to troubleshoot, I really can't say "here's what to do." > > However, I'd start with setting your library to minimal permission since what you're getting is a permissions error. That would be at least as strict as 660. > > I would also then check that your users are in the same group as your print service -- which is usually 'wheel,' but not always. > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:35 PM, paul g wrote: > David thanks for the great link and advice. > > I will reset world with command? 'chown root:root brfaxfilter' > > I will then 'chmod go+x' > > ???? > > Can you please recommend which area of the link you sent I should possibly follow? > > There are chmod 555 and 700 's etc making me confused. > > I will restart 'cups' using the command 'sudo service cups restart' > > Thanks alot for your help with this. > > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 00:11:02 -0600 > > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > Looks like you're not the only one to run into this: > > http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1368410.html > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:06 AM, David Wagle wrote: > Also - you probably have to restart CUPS to have it re-read the library. > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:03 AM, David Wagle wrote: > Paul - again, there's no reason for world permissions to be anything. Anyone authorized to use the service should be in the same group as the service. > > > On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 7:36 PM, paul g wrote: > Again I am sorry to repost BUT the following should be noted: > > I am using a majic jack based telephone line system 'VOIP', > > I have adjusted the MFC-295CN to 9600 baud rate 'fax', > > I do of course have a high speed ethernet connection, > > Your help is always appreciated. > > Thank you for your time, > > Paul G > > > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:16:31 -0600 > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > I just preformed a 'chmod' command and permissions NOW look like this for the file: > > located under: deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ > > -rwxrw-rw- 1 root deb 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter > > command I entered was: > > sudo chmod go-x brfaxfilter > > to remove execute. > > rebooted the machine same thing still shows up in Cups. > > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:58:10 -0600 > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > ls -l of /usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter > > Looks like you have a sticky bit set and have it 'rwx' for all. It really only probably needs to be 'rw-' for owner and group, and then any user who is allowed to use it should be in that group. There should be no need for a sticky bit to be set. > > > > On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM, paul g wrote: > I have successfully installed the 'CUPS' and the appropriate drivers for a model 'MFC-295CN' Brother printer. > > The machine is running kernel: Linux deb-desktop 3.2.0-59-generic #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux > > > I can print documents properly as well as scan them using xsane. Test page printout work great! also 'full color'. > > My issue is with the accompanied 'BRFAX' which I have installed also uses 'Cups' is as follows: > > When I click on 'BRFAX' inside 'Cups' > Reports an error: > > The error is as follows: 'shown in Cups' > > Stopped - File "/usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter" has insecure permissions (0100777/uid=0/gid=0). > > deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ ls -lah > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter > > dpkg -l | grep Brother > > ii brmfcfaxcups 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC/FAX fax share function driver > ii brmfcfaxlpd 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC-FAX LPD driver > ii brother-udev-rule-type1 1.0.0-1 Brother udev rule type 1 > ii brscan-skey 0.2.4-1 Brother Linux scanner S-KEY tool > ii brscan3 0.2.11-4 Brother Scanner Driver > ii mfc295cncupswrapper 1.1.3-1 Brother CUPS Inkjet Printer Definitions > ii mfc295cnlpr 1.1.3-1 Brother lpr Inkjet Printer Definitions > ii printer-driver-ptouch 1.3-3ubuntu0.1 printer driver Brother P-touch label printers > > Any ideas on where to go from here? > > Thank You, > > Paul G > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sat Mar 1 23:27:53 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 23:27:53 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about printing' In-Reply-To: <3760AD7A-82D2-48F0-AB48-39138F605E5D@me.com> References: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , <3507DDE5-4DDF-4C0B-9A33-B8877D8F74A4@me.com>, ,<3760AD7A-82D2-48F0-AB48-39138F605E5D@me.com> Message-ID: Brian have you read the entire post athus far? I know you are very advanced. The built in of hp label software does not work over wifi. This is a Topic about GNU/Linux support with cups and I have learned alot but still have fax permission errors with the print server running Cups on a Linux Maya machine. I have no interest in Windows. I have tried the chmods and followed David's input. I still don't know the octals of the 777 chomd command but that point is mute here. There is a way to Fax over VOIP apparently support is not so great at Brother's similar to Lexmark. I'm sorry to be a bother but at this point nothing but David search on and finding the link' http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1368410.html has helped alot I know this is a Linux forum and I should never have brought up any other operating system. At this point I think its a matter of where files are placed 'permissions also' on the print server's operating system in order to be read with cups etc or absolutely no support with faxing under the GNU/Linux operating system. For the Brother model BRN-295CN printer. I'm glad you enjoy Apple so much some of us can't afford them. From: ryanjcole at me.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 22:39:49 -0600 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' On Mar 1, 2014, at 10:10 PM, paul g wrote:Understood and thanks for your input on this matter as well. I am currently still having 'problems' with the BRN-295CN fax ability and yes it does show up upon entering 'http://localhost:631/printers' among my home network which is 'Cups' based at this time. You are correct Ryan because in order to setup a Windows based printer one must install software on the computer in order for it to talk with the router or perhaps ad-hoc in order for the wireless enabled printer to work?. That?s not what I meant. Drivers are implied, protocols are specific. My Mac, for example (the nearest thing I run to your setup) offers LPD, IPP and HP JetDirect (Socket) support. That?s what I mean. Windows 7 was an example because me being a 'noob maybe very slow also' I attached a friends wireless printer to their home router on a Windows 7 computer recently and it was mind you difficult a bit. The print server is built into either: 1) the computer (if plugged in via USB, Parallel or Firewire) 2) the router (if plugged in via USB) 3) the printer (if WLAN or LAN-based) Are static ip addresses important when setting up a printer which is unattached physically from a print server 'the printer is alone in a room with no cords or cables except for the ac current?? That depends on the protocol involved and what your computer is looking for. Many printers use Apple?s Bonjour and Windows? NETBIOS (I may be on the wrong announcer service here - there are so damn many in Windows) to tell the world they exist on a network. They are helpful sometimes but clutter traffic more often than not So many questions. So many answers. Thank you for your time. From: ryanjcole at me.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 20:43:43 -0600 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' If it supports the correct protocols for Linux printing, yes. However a wireless Windows printer may not necessarily support anything else over WiFi. On Mar 1, 2014, at 5:00 PM, paul g wrote:I suppose the printer could be alone in a room unattached to only a ac outlet and then it could be setup to talk with the wireless router and then the desktop computers can communicate with the printer through the router somehow kindof like setting up a wireless printing in windows 7? From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 16:37:33 -0600 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' I sure have learned some stuff today. I am going to have to work on understanding permissions alot. So what kindof relevance does any of the 'printers on board wireless dhcp/ip settings have at this point'? Is that mainly to setup the printer for a Windows wireless printing situation? Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 15:58:37 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' Because you have it configured to share that printer to the network On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 3:48 PM, paul g wrote: Another question I have for you is about the 'http://localhost:631/admin/' command. When I enter that command into the browser on the pc upstairs 'which is wireless on a DHCP networked router'. The Brother MFC-295CN printer shows up 'which is connected via USB cable to the pc downstairs 'which is also connected wirelessly to the router using DHCP. Why the heck is that anyways? Thank you for caring and your help. Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:52:54 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' Paul - try this: Open up a terminal mkdir a play space: $mkdir ~/testdir go there: $cd ~/testdir create a file: $touch test Look at it: $ls -l test -rw------- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test play with chmod: $chmod 110 test and see what it does: $ls -l test ---x--x--- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test try other values: $ chmod 421 test and see what they do: $ ls -l test -r---w---x 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test keep playing around till you understand how the number relate to permissions. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:41 PM, paul g wrote: Very Very solid advice if I do say so myself. This is a bit over my head but I will try to figure it out. Thanks for all your help. Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:20:27 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' I should add -- unless you have reason to do so, don't change the group ownership. Rather, limit the permissions to that group. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:09 PM, David Wagle wrote: OK -- so understanding the numbers on modes: There are three sets of permissions, those for the OWNER, the GROUP and WORLD. Each permission set is controlled by a bit string that is 4 bits long. If the first bit is a 1, then that group has read permissions. A bit string (base 2) of 0001 has a decimal value of 1 because 0x2^3 + 0x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 1x2^0 = 1 and corresponds to execute permission A bit string (base 2) of 0010 has a decimal value of 2 because 0x2^3 + 0x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 2 and corresponds to write permission A bit string (base 2) of 0100 has a decimal value of 4 because 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 4 and corresponds to read permission The fourth bit is used for special permissions like "the sticky bit" and is really beyond the basics. Now, because the values of 1, 2 and 4 are bit-independent, any combination of those values is the equivilant of 'OR'ing the bit strings. So, if we want read and write permission we want both 4 and 2. That is we want the bit mask to be 011. Which is 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 6. Which is what you get if you add 4 + 2. So a mask of, say 751 is RWX for Owner, R+X for Group and R for World. As for which link to follow --- without your box in front of me to troubleshoot, I really can't say "here's what to do." However, I'd start with setting your library to minimal permission since what you're getting is a permissions error. That would be at least as strict as 660. I would also then check that your users are in the same group as your print service -- which is usually 'wheel,' but not always. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:35 PM, paul g wrote: David thanks for the great link and advice. I will reset world with command? 'chown root:root brfaxfilter' I will then 'chmod go+x' ???? Can you please recommend which area of the link you sent I should possibly follow? There are chmod 555 and 700 's etc making me confused. I will restart 'cups' using the command 'sudo service cups restart' Thanks alot for your help with this. Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 00:11:02 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' Looks like you're not the only one to run into this: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1368410.html On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:06 AM, David Wagle wrote: Also - you probably have to restart CUPS to have it re-read the library. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:03 AM, David Wagle wrote: Paul - again, there's no reason for world permissions to be anything. Anyone authorized to use the service should be in the same group as the service. On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 7:36 PM, paul g wrote: Again I am sorry to repost BUT the following should be noted: I am using a majic jack based telephone line system 'VOIP', I have adjusted the MFC-295CN to 9600 baud rate 'fax', I do of course have a high speed ethernet connection, Your help is always appreciated. Thank you for your time, Paul G From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:16:31 -0600 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' I just preformed a 'chmod' command and permissions NOW look like this for the file: located under: deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ -rwxrw-rw- 1 root deb 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter command I entered was: sudo chmod go-x brfaxfilter to remove execute. rebooted the machine same thing still shows up in Cups. Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:58:10 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' ls -l of /usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter Looks like you have a sticky bit set and have it 'rwx' for all. It really only probably needs to be 'rw-' for owner and group, and then any user who is allowed to use it should be in that group. There should be no need for a sticky bit to be set. On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM, paul g wrote: I have successfully installed the 'CUPS' and the appropriate drivers for a model 'MFC-295CN' Brother printer. The machine is running kernel: Linux deb-desktop 3.2.0-59-generic #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux I can print documents properly as well as scan them using xsane. Test page printout work great! also 'full color'. My issue is with the accompanied 'BRFAX' which I have installed also uses 'Cups' is as follows: When I click on 'BRFAX' inside 'Cups' Reports an error: The error is as follows: 'shown in Cups' Stopped - File "/usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter" has insecure permissions (0100777/uid=0/gid=0). deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ ls -lah -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter dpkg -l | grep Brother ii brmfcfaxcups 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC/FAX fax share function driver ii brmfcfaxlpd 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC-FAX LPD driver ii brother-udev-rule-type1 1.0.0-1 Brother udev rule type 1 ii brscan-skey 0.2.4-1 Brother Linux scanner S-KEY tool ii brscan3 0.2.11-4 Brother Scanner Driver ii mfc295cncupswrapper 1.1.3-1 Brother CUPS Inkjet Printer Definitions ii mfc295cnlpr 1.1.3-1 Brother lpr Inkjet Printer Definitions ii printer-driver-ptouch 1.3-3ubuntu0.1 printer driver Brother P-touch label printers Any ideas on where to go from here? Thank You, Paul G _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list_______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list_______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.wagle at gmail.com Sun Mar 2 08:15:44 2014 From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2014 08:15:44 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about printing' In-Reply-To: References: <3507DDE5-4DDF-4C0B-9A33-B8877D8F74A4@me.com> <3760AD7A-82D2-48F0-AB48-39138F605E5D@me.com> Message-ID: Paul, for the life of me I can't figure out why you're being so snarky towards Ryan (not Brian) when all he did was give you an answer to your question. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 11:27 PM, paul g wrote: > Brian have you read the entire post athus far? I know you are very > advanced. The built in of hp label software does not work over wifi. This > is a Topic about GNU/Linux support with cups and I have learned alot but > still have fax permission errors with the print server running Cups on a > Linux Maya machine. I have no interest in Windows. > > I have tried the chmods and followed David's input. I still don't know the > octals of the 777 chomd command but that point is mute here. > > There is a way to Fax over VOIP apparently support is not so great at > Brother's similar to Lexmark. > > I'm sorry to be a bother but at this point nothing but David search on and > finding the link' > http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1368410.html > > has helped alot I know this is a Linux forum and I should never have > brought up any other operating system. > > At this point I think its a matter of where files are placed 'permissions > also' on the print server's operating system in order to be read with cups > etc or absolutely no support with faxing under the GNU/Linux operating > system. For the Brother model BRN-295CN printer. > > I'm glad you enjoy Apple so much some of us can't afford them. > > > > ------------------------------ > From: ryanjcole at me.com > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 22:39:49 -0600 > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > > On Mar 1, 2014, at 10:10 PM, paul g wrote: > > Understood and thanks for your input on this matter as well. I am > currently still having 'problems' with the BRN-295CN fax ability and yes it > does show up upon entering 'http://localhost:631/printers' among my home > network which is 'Cups' based at this time. You are correct Ryan because in > order to setup a Windows based printer one must install software on the > computer in order for it to talk with the router or perhaps ad-hoc in order > for the wireless enabled printer to work'. > > > That's not what I meant. Drivers are implied, protocols are specific. My > Mac, for example (the nearest thing I run to your setup) offers LPD, IPP > and HP JetDirect (Socket) support. That's what I mean. > > > Windows 7 was an example because me being a 'noob maybe very slow also' I > attached a friends wireless printer to their home router on a Windows 7 > computer recently and it was mind you difficult a bit. > > > The print server is built into either: > 1) the computer (if plugged in via USB, Parallel or Firewire) > 2) the router (if plugged in via USB) > 3) the printer (if WLAN or LAN-based) > > Are static ip addresses important when setting up a printer which is > unattached physically from a print server 'the printer is alone in a room > with no cords or cables except for the ac current'? > > > That depends on the protocol involved and what your computer is looking > for. Many printers use Apple's Bonjour and Windows' NETBIOS (I may be on > the wrong announcer service here - there are so damn many in Windows) to > tell the world they exist on a network. They are helpful sometimes but > clutter traffic more often than not > > > So many questions. > > > So many answers. > > Thank you for your time. > > ------------------------------ > From: ryanjcole at me.com > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 20:43:43 -0600 > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > If it supports the correct protocols for Linux printing, yes. However a > wireless Windows printer may not necessarily support anything else over > WiFi. > > > On Mar 1, 2014, at 5:00 PM, paul g wrote: > > I suppose the printer could be alone in a room unattached to only a ac > outlet and then it could be setup to talk with the wireless router and then > the desktop computers can communicate with the printer through the router > somehow kindof like setting up a wireless printing in windows 7? > > ------------------------------ > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 16:37:33 -0600 > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > I sure have learned some stuff today. I am going to have to work on > understanding permissions alot. > > So what kindof relevance does any of the 'printers on board wireless > dhcp/ip settings have at this point'? Is that mainly to setup the printer > for a Windows wireless printing situation? > > > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 15:58:37 -0600 > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > Because you have it configured to share that printer to the network > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 3:48 PM, paul g wrote: > > Another question I have for you is about the 'http://localhost:631/admin/' > command. > > When I enter that command into the browser on the pc upstairs 'which is > wireless on a DHCP networked router'. The Brother MFC-295CN printer shows > up 'which is connected via USB cable to the pc downstairs 'which is also > connected wirelessly to the router using DHCP. Why the heck is that anyways? > > Thank you for caring and your help. > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:52:54 -0600 > > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > Paul - try this: > > Open up a terminal > mkdir a play space: $mkdir ~/testdir > go there: $cd ~/testdir > > create a file: $touch test > > Look at it: $ls -l test > > -rw------- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test > > play with chmod: $chmod 110 test > and see what it does: $ls -l test > > ---x--x--- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test > > try other values: $ chmod 421 test > and see what they do: $ ls -l test > > -r---w---x 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test > > keep playing around till you understand how the number relate to > permissions. > > > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:41 PM, paul g wrote: > > Very Very solid advice if I do say so myself. This is a bit over my head > but I will try to figure it out. Thanks for all your help. > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:20:27 -0600 > > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > I should add -- unless you have reason to do so, don't change the group > ownership. Rather, limit the permissions to that group. > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:09 PM, David Wagle wrote: > > OK -- so understanding the numbers on modes: > > There are three sets of permissions, those for the OWNER, the GROUP and > WORLD. > > Each permission set is controlled by a bit string that is 4 bits long. > > If the first bit is a 1, then that group has read permissions. > > A bit string (base 2) of 0001 has a decimal value of 1 because 0x2^3 + > 0x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 1x2^0 = 1 and corresponds to execute permission > > A bit string (base 2) of 0010 has a decimal value of 2 because 0x2^3 + > 0x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 2 and corresponds to write permission > > A bit string (base 2) of 0100 has a decimal value of 4 because 0x2^3 + > 1x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 4 and corresponds to read permission > > The fourth bit is used for special permissions like "the sticky bit" and > is really beyond the basics. > > Now, because the values of 1, 2 and 4 are bit-independent, any combination > of those values is the equivilant of 'OR'ing the bit strings. > > So, if we want read and write permission we want both 4 and 2. That is we > want the bit mask to be 011. Which is 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 6. > Which is what you get if you add 4 + 2. > > So a mask of, say 751 is RWX for Owner, R+X for Group and R for World. > > As for which link to follow --- without your box in front of me to > troubleshoot, I really can't say "here's what to do." > > However, I'd start with setting your library to minimal permission since > what you're getting is a permissions error. That would be at least as > strict as 660. > > I would also then check that your users are in the same group as your > print service -- which is usually 'wheel,' but not always. > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:35 PM, paul g wrote: > > David thanks for the great link and advice. > > I will reset world with command? 'chown root:root brfaxfilter' > > I will then 'chmod go+x' > > ???? > > Can you please recommend which area of the link you sent I should possibly > follow? > > There are chmod 555 and 700 's etc making me confused. > > I will restart 'cups' using the command 'sudo service cups restart' > > Thanks alot for your help with this. > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 00:11:02 -0600 > > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > Looks like you're not the only one to run into this: > > http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1368410.html > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:06 AM, David Wagle > wrote: > > Also - you probably have to restart CUPS to have it re-read the library. > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:03 AM, David Wagle wrote: > > Paul - again, there's no reason for world permissions to be anything. > Anyone authorized to use the service should be in the same group as the > service. > > > On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 7:36 PM, paul g wrote: > > Again I am sorry to repost BUT the following should be noted: > > I am using a majic jack based telephone line system 'VOIP', > > I have adjusted the MFC-295CN to 9600 baud rate 'fax', > > I do of course have a high speed ethernet connection, > > Your help is always appreciated. > > Thank you for your time, > > Paul G > > > ------------------------------ > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:16:31 -0600 > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > I just preformed a 'chmod' command and permissions NOW look like this for > the file: > > located under: deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ > > -rwxrw-rw- 1 root deb 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter > > command I entered was: > > sudo chmod go-x brfaxfilter > > to remove execute. > > rebooted the machine same thing still shows up in Cups. > > ------------------------------ > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:58:10 -0600 > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > ls -l of /usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter > > Looks like you have a sticky bit set and have it 'rwx' for all. It really > only probably needs to be 'rw-' for owner and group, and then any user who > is allowed to use it should be in that group. There should be no need for > a sticky bit to be set. > > > > On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM, paul g wrote: > > I have successfully installed the 'CUPS' and the appropriate drivers for a > model 'MFC-295CN' Brother printer. > > The machine is running kernel: Linux deb-desktop 3.2.0-59-generic > #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux > > > I can print documents properly as well as scan them using xsane. Test page > printout work great! also 'full color'. > > My issue is with the accompanied 'BRFAX' which I have installed also uses > 'Cups' is as follows: > > When I click on 'BRFAX' inside 'Cups' > Reports an error: > > The error is as follows: 'shown in Cups' > > Stopped - File "/usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter" has insecure permissions > (0100777/uid=0/gid=0). > > deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ ls -lah > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter > > dpkg -l | grep Brother > > ii brmfcfaxcups > 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC/FAX fax share function > driver > ii brmfcfaxlpd > 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC-FAX LPD driver > ii brother-udev-rule-type1 > 1.0.0-1 Brother udev rule type 1 > ii brscan-skey > 0.2.4-1 Brother Linux scanner S-KEY tool > ii brscan3 > 0.2.11-4 Brother Scanner Driver > ii mfc295cncupswrapper > 1.1.3-1 Brother CUPS Inkjet Printer > Definitions > ii mfc295cnlpr > 1.1.3-1 Brother lpr Inkjet Printer > Definitions > ii printer-driver-ptouch > 1.3-3ubuntu0.1 printer driver Brother P-touch > label printers > > Any ideas on where to go from here? > > Thank You, > > Paul G > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Sun Mar 2 09:06:45 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2014 09:06:45 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about printing' In-Reply-To: References: <3507DDE5-4DDF-4C0B-9A33-B8877D8F74A4@me.com> <"BAY175-W211A5D443424220 9FDA81B9 98C0"@phx.gbl> <3760AD7A-82D2-48F0-AB48-39138F605E5D@me.com> Message-ID: On Mar 1, 2014, at 11:27 PM, paul g wrote: > I'm glad you enjoy Apple so much some of us can't afford them. Neither can I, asshole. This computer I have is falling apart. It?s 5 years old. I?m unemployed (as of two weeks ago) and my previous employer is apparently interested in starting a legal case over my last week?s pay. Shove your attitude into someone?s face that gives a shit. > From: ryanjcole at me.com > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 22:39:49 -0600 > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > > On Mar 1, 2014, at 10:10 PM, paul g wrote: > > Understood and thanks for your input on this matter as well. I am currently still having 'problems' with the BRN-295CN fax ability and yes it does show up upon entering 'http://localhost:631/printers' among my home network which is 'Cups' based at this time. You are correct Ryan because in order to setup a Windows based printer one must install software on the computer in order for it to talk with the router or perhaps ad-hoc in order for the wireless enabled printer to work?. > > That?s not what I meant. Drivers are implied, protocols are specific. My Mac, for example (the nearest thing I run to your setup) offers LPD, IPP and HP JetDirect (Socket) support. That?s what I mean. > > > Windows 7 was an example because me being a 'noob maybe very slow also' I attached a friends wireless printer to their home router on a Windows 7 computer recently and it was mind you difficult a bit. > > The print server is built into either: > 1) the computer (if plugged in via USB, Parallel or Firewire) > 2) the router (if plugged in via USB) > 3) the printer (if WLAN or LAN-based) > > Are static ip addresses important when setting up a printer which is unattached physically from a print server 'the printer is alone in a room with no cords or cables except for the ac current?? > > That depends on the protocol involved and what your computer is looking for. Many printers use Apple?s Bonjour and Windows? NETBIOS (I may be on the wrong announcer service here - there are so damn many in Windows) to tell the world they exist on a network. They are helpful sometimes but clutter traffic more often than not > > > So many questions. > > So many answers. > > Thank you for your time. > > From: ryanjcole at me.com > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 20:43:43 -0600 > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > If it supports the correct protocols for Linux printing, yes. However a wireless Windows printer may not necessarily support anything else over WiFi. > > > On Mar 1, 2014, at 5:00 PM, paul g wrote: > > I suppose the printer could be alone in a room unattached to only a ac outlet and then it could be setup to talk with the wireless router and then the desktop computers can communicate with the printer through the router somehow kindof like setting up a wireless printing in windows 7? > > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 16:37:33 -0600 > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > I sure have learned some stuff today. I am going to have to work on understanding permissions alot. > > So what kindof relevance does any of the 'printers on board wireless dhcp/ip settings have at this point'? Is that mainly to setup the printer for a Windows wireless printing situation? > > > > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 15:58:37 -0600 > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > Because you have it configured to share that printer to the network > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 3:48 PM, paul g wrote: > Another question I have for you is about the 'http://localhost:631/admin/' command. > > When I enter that command into the browser on the pc upstairs 'which is wireless on a DHCP networked router'. The Brother MFC-295CN printer shows up 'which is connected via USB cable to the pc downstairs 'which is also connected wirelessly to the router using DHCP. Why the heck is that anyways? > > Thank you for caring and your help. > > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:52:54 -0600 > > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > Paul - try this: > > Open up a terminal > mkdir a play space: $mkdir ~/testdir > go there: $cd ~/testdir > > create a file: $touch test > > Look at it: $ls -l test > > -rw------- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test > > play with chmod: $chmod 110 test > and see what it does: $ls -l test > > ---x--x--- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test > > try other values: $ chmod 421 test > and see what they do: $ ls -l test > > -r---w---x 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test > > keep playing around till you understand how the number relate to permissions. > > > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:41 PM, paul g wrote: > Very Very solid advice if I do say so myself. This is a bit over my head but I will try to figure it out. Thanks for all your help. > > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:20:27 -0600 > > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > I should add -- unless you have reason to do so, don't change the group ownership. Rather, limit the permissions to that group. > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:09 PM, David Wagle wrote: > OK -- so understanding the numbers on modes: > > There are three sets of permissions, those for the OWNER, the GROUP and WORLD. > > Each permission set is controlled by a bit string that is 4 bits long. > > If the first bit is a 1, then that group has read permissions. > > A bit string (base 2) of 0001 has a decimal value of 1 because 0x2^3 + 0x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 1x2^0 = 1 and corresponds to execute permission > > A bit string (base 2) of 0010 has a decimal value of 2 because 0x2^3 + 0x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 2 and corresponds to write permission > > A bit string (base 2) of 0100 has a decimal value of 4 because 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 4 and corresponds to read permission > > The fourth bit is used for special permissions like "the sticky bit" and is really beyond the basics. > > Now, because the values of 1, 2 and 4 are bit-independent, any combination of those values is the equivilant of 'OR'ing the bit strings. > > So, if we want read and write permission we want both 4 and 2. That is we want the bit mask to be 011. Which is 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 6. Which is what you get if you add 4 + 2. > > So a mask of, say 751 is RWX for Owner, R+X for Group and R for World. > > As for which link to follow --- without your box in front of me to troubleshoot, I really can't say "here's what to do." > > However, I'd start with setting your library to minimal permission since what you're getting is a permissions error. That would be at least as strict as 660. > > I would also then check that your users are in the same group as your print service -- which is usually 'wheel,' but not always. > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:35 PM, paul g wrote: > David thanks for the great link and advice. > > I will reset world with command? 'chown root:root brfaxfilter' > > I will then 'chmod go+x' > > ???? > > Can you please recommend which area of the link you sent I should possibly follow? > > There are chmod 555 and 700 's etc making me confused. > > I will restart 'cups' using the command 'sudo service cups restart' > > Thanks alot for your help with this. > > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 00:11:02 -0600 > > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > Looks like you're not the only one to run into this: > > http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1368410.html > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:06 AM, David Wagle wrote: > Also - you probably have to restart CUPS to have it re-read the library. > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:03 AM, David Wagle wrote: > Paul - again, there's no reason for world permissions to be anything. Anyone authorized to use the service should be in the same group as the service. > > > On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 7:36 PM, paul g wrote: > Again I am sorry to repost BUT the following should be noted: > > I am using a majic jack based telephone line system 'VOIP', > > I have adjusted the MFC-295CN to 9600 baud rate 'fax', > > I do of course have a high speed ethernet connection, > > Your help is always appreciated. > > Thank you for your time, > > Paul G > > > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:16:31 -0600 > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > I just preformed a 'chmod' command and permissions NOW look like this for the file: > > located under: deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ > > -rwxrw-rw- 1 root deb 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter > > command I entered was: > > sudo chmod go-x brfaxfilter > > to remove execute. > > rebooted the machine same thing still shows up in Cups. > > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:58:10 -0600 > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > ls -l of /usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter > > Looks like you have a sticky bit set and have it 'rwx' for all. It really only probably needs to be 'rw-' for owner and group, and then any user who is allowed to use it should be in that group. There should be no need for a sticky bit to be set. > > > > On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM, paul g wrote: > I have successfully installed the 'CUPS' and the appropriate drivers for a model 'MFC-295CN' Brother printer. > > The machine is running kernel: Linux deb-desktop 3.2.0-59-generic #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux > > > I can print documents properly as well as scan them using xsane. Test page printout work great! also 'full color'. > > My issue is with the accompanied 'BRFAX' which I have installed also uses 'Cups' is as follows: > > When I click on 'BRFAX' inside 'Cups' > Reports an error: > > The error is as follows: 'shown in Cups' > > Stopped - File "/usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter" has insecure permissions (0100777/uid=0/gid=0). > > deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ ls -lah > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter > > dpkg -l | grep Brother > > ii brmfcfaxcups 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC/FAX fax share function driver > ii brmfcfaxlpd 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC-FAX LPD driver > ii brother-udev-rule-type1 1.0.0-1 Brother udev rule type 1 > ii brscan-skey 0.2.4-1 Brother Linux scanner S-KEY tool > ii brscan3 0.2.11-4 Brother Scanner Driver > ii mfc295cncupswrapper 1.1.3-1 Brother CUPS Inkjet Printer Definitions > ii mfc295cnlpr 1.1.3-1 Brother lpr Inkjet Printer Definitions > ii printer-driver-ptouch 1.3-3ubuntu0.1 printer driver Brother P-touch label printers > > Any ideas on where to go from here? > > Thank You, > > Paul G > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Sun Mar 2 09:22:43 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2014 09:22:43 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about printing' In-Reply-To: References: <3507DDE5-4DDF-4C0B-9A33-B8877D8F74A4@me.com> <3760AD7A-82D2-48F0-AB48-39138F605E5D@me.com> Message-ID: Ok, I think I am missing emails here... I see multiple people bending over backwards to explain things to Paul G, over the course of multiple threads, and Paul G repeatedly changes the subject in the middle of an ongoing discussion to ask about unrelated issues and randomly starts getting snarky and deliberately offensive to those helping him. Once this attitude appears, he starts to hide more and more behind increasingly erratic language and repeated uses of being 'not as advanced' or 'just a noob' -- but I can never seem to see or understand what triggers this. Ryan, I think you have gone above and beyond trying to help here, and I am amazed at the way you are being treated like a personal Google right now. Reading over these threads, this post on slash7.com comes to mind: http://slash7.com/2006/12/22/vampires/. I have found it's viewpoint very helpful and constructive in the past, and I think that there are people here that it can help. Jeff On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > > On Mar 1, 2014, at 11:27 PM, paul g wrote: > > I'm glad you enjoy Apple so much some of us can't afford them. > > > Neither can I, asshole. This computer I have is falling apart. It's 5 > years old. I'm unemployed (as of two weeks ago) and my previous employer is > apparently interested in starting a legal case over my last week's pay. > > Shove your attitude into someone's face that gives a shit. > > > ------------------------------ > From: ryanjcole at me.com > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 22:39:49 -0600 > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > > On Mar 1, 2014, at 10:10 PM, paul g wrote: > > Understood and thanks for your input on this matter as well. I am > currently still having 'problems' with the BRN-295CN fax ability and yes it > does show up upon entering 'http://localhost:631/printers' among my home > network which is 'Cups' based at this time. You are correct Ryan because in > order to setup a Windows based printer one must install software on the > computer in order for it to talk with the router or perhaps ad-hoc in order > for the wireless enabled printer to work'. > > > That's not what I meant. Drivers are implied, protocols are specific. My > Mac, for example (the nearest thing I run to your setup) offers LPD, IPP > and HP JetDirect (Socket) support. That's what I mean. > > > Windows 7 was an example because me being a 'noob maybe very slow also' I > attached a friends wireless printer to their home router on a Windows 7 > computer recently and it was mind you difficult a bit. > > > The print server is built into either: > 1) the computer (if plugged in via USB, Parallel or Firewire) > 2) the router (if plugged in via USB) > 3) the printer (if WLAN or LAN-based) > > Are static ip addresses important when setting up a printer which is > unattached physically from a print server 'the printer is alone in a room > with no cords or cables except for the ac current'? > > > That depends on the protocol involved and what your computer is looking > for. Many printers use Apple's Bonjour and Windows' NETBIOS (I may be on > the wrong announcer service here - there are so damn many in Windows) to > tell the world they exist on a network. They are helpful sometimes but > clutter traffic more often than not > > > So many questions. > > > So many answers. > > Thank you for your time. > > ------------------------------ > From: ryanjcole at me.com > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 20:43:43 -0600 > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > If it supports the correct protocols for Linux printing, yes. However a > wireless Windows printer may not necessarily support anything else over > WiFi. > > > On Mar 1, 2014, at 5:00 PM, paul g wrote: > > I suppose the printer could be alone in a room unattached to only a ac > outlet and then it could be setup to talk with the wireless router and then > the desktop computers can communicate with the printer through the router > somehow kindof like setting up a wireless printing in windows 7? > > ------------------------------ > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 16:37:33 -0600 > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > I sure have learned some stuff today. I am going to have to work on > understanding permissions alot. > > So what kindof relevance does any of the 'printers on board wireless > dhcp/ip settings have at this point'? Is that mainly to setup the printer > for a Windows wireless printing situation? > > > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 15:58:37 -0600 > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > Because you have it configured to share that printer to the network > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 3:48 PM, paul g wrote: > > Another question I have for you is about the 'http://localhost:631/admin/' > command. > > When I enter that command into the browser on the pc upstairs 'which is > wireless on a DHCP networked router'. The Brother MFC-295CN printer shows > up 'which is connected via USB cable to the pc downstairs 'which is also > connected wirelessly to the router using DHCP. Why the heck is that anyways? > > Thank you for caring and your help. > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:52:54 -0600 > > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > Paul - try this: > > Open up a terminal > mkdir a play space: $mkdir ~/testdir > go there: $cd ~/testdir > > create a file: $touch test > > Look at it: $ls -l test > > -rw------- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test > > play with chmod: $chmod 110 test > and see what it does: $ls -l test > > ---x--x--- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test > > try other values: $ chmod 421 test > and see what they do: $ ls -l test > > -r---w---x 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test > > keep playing around till you understand how the number relate to > permissions. > > > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:41 PM, paul g wrote: > > Very Very solid advice if I do say so myself. This is a bit over my head > but I will try to figure it out. Thanks for all your help. > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:20:27 -0600 > > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > I should add -- unless you have reason to do so, don't change the group > ownership. Rather, limit the permissions to that group. > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:09 PM, David Wagle wrote: > > OK -- so understanding the numbers on modes: > > There are three sets of permissions, those for the OWNER, the GROUP and > WORLD. > > Each permission set is controlled by a bit string that is 4 bits long. > > If the first bit is a 1, then that group has read permissions. > > A bit string (base 2) of 0001 has a decimal value of 1 because 0x2^3 + > 0x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 1x2^0 = 1 and corresponds to execute permission > > A bit string (base 2) of 0010 has a decimal value of 2 because 0x2^3 + > 0x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 2 and corresponds to write permission > > A bit string (base 2) of 0100 has a decimal value of 4 because 0x2^3 + > 1x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 4 and corresponds to read permission > > The fourth bit is used for special permissions like "the sticky bit" and > is really beyond the basics. > > Now, because the values of 1, 2 and 4 are bit-independent, any combination > of those values is the equivilant of 'OR'ing the bit strings. > > So, if we want read and write permission we want both 4 and 2. That is we > want the bit mask to be 011. Which is 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 6. > Which is what you get if you add 4 + 2. > > So a mask of, say 751 is RWX for Owner, R+X for Group and R for World. > > As for which link to follow --- without your box in front of me to > troubleshoot, I really can't say "here's what to do." > > However, I'd start with setting your library to minimal permission since > what you're getting is a permissions error. That would be at least as > strict as 660. > > I would also then check that your users are in the same group as your > print service -- which is usually 'wheel,' but not always. > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:35 PM, paul g wrote: > > David thanks for the great link and advice. > > I will reset world with command? 'chown root:root brfaxfilter' > > I will then 'chmod go+x' > > ???? > > Can you please recommend which area of the link you sent I should possibly > follow? > > There are chmod 555 and 700 's etc making me confused. > > I will restart 'cups' using the command 'sudo service cups restart' > > Thanks alot for your help with this. > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 00:11:02 -0600 > > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > Looks like you're not the only one to run into this: > > http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1368410.html > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:06 AM, David Wagle > wrote: > > Also - you probably have to restart CUPS to have it re-read the library. > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:03 AM, David Wagle wrote: > > Paul - again, there's no reason for world permissions to be anything. > Anyone authorized to use the service should be in the same group as the > service. > > > On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 7:36 PM, paul g wrote: > > Again I am sorry to repost BUT the following should be noted: > > I am using a majic jack based telephone line system 'VOIP', > > I have adjusted the MFC-295CN to 9600 baud rate 'fax', > > I do of course have a high speed ethernet connection, > > Your help is always appreciated. > > Thank you for your time, > > Paul G > > > ------------------------------ > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:16:31 -0600 > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > I just preformed a 'chmod' command and permissions NOW look like this for > the file: > > located under: deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ > > -rwxrw-rw- 1 root deb 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter > > command I entered was: > > sudo chmod go-x brfaxfilter > > to remove execute. > > rebooted the machine same thing still shows up in Cups. > > ------------------------------ > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:58:10 -0600 > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > > ls -l of /usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter > > Looks like you have a sticky bit set and have it 'rwx' for all. It really > only probably needs to be 'rw-' for owner and group, and then any user who > is allowed to use it should be in that group. There should be no need for > a sticky bit to be set. > > > > On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM, paul g wrote: > > I have successfully installed the 'CUPS' and the appropriate drivers for a > model 'MFC-295CN' Brother printer. > > The machine is running kernel: Linux deb-desktop 3.2.0-59-generic > #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux > > > I can print documents properly as well as scan them using xsane. Test page > printout work great! also 'full color'. > > My issue is with the accompanied 'BRFAX' which I have installed also uses > 'Cups' is as follows: > > When I click on 'BRFAX' inside 'Cups' > Reports an error: > > The error is as follows: 'shown in Cups' > > Stopped - File "/usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter" has insecure permissions > (0100777/uid=0/gid=0). > > deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ ls -lah > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter > > dpkg -l | grep Brother > > ii brmfcfaxcups > 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC/FAX fax share function > driver > ii brmfcfaxlpd > 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC-FAX LPD driver > ii brother-udev-rule-type1 > 1.0.0-1 Brother udev rule type 1 > ii brscan-skey > 0.2.4-1 Brother Linux scanner S-KEY tool > ii brscan3 > 0.2.11-4 Brother Scanner Driver > ii mfc295cncupswrapper > 1.1.3-1 Brother CUPS Inkjet Printer > Definitions > ii mfc295cnlpr > 1.1.3-1 Brother lpr Inkjet Printer > Definitions > ii printer-driver-ptouch > 1.3-3ubuntu0.1 printer driver Brother P-touch > label printers > > Any ideas on where to go from here? > > Thank You, > > Paul G > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com Sun Mar 2 14:22:30 2014 From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2014 14:22:30 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] FREE book: _FreeBSD 6 Unleashed_ Message-ID: <20140302142230.d5c158ef3d1e4002920de18e@jasonhsu.com> I am giving away the book _FreeBSD 6 Unleashed_ and the DVD that came with it. Please contact me if you are interested. -- Jason Hsu From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com Sun Mar 2 16:14:55 2014 From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2014 16:14:55 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] FREE book: _FreeBSD 6 Unleashed_ In-Reply-To: <20140302142230.d5c158ef3d1e4002920de18e@jasonhsu.com> References: <20140302142230.d5c158ef3d1e4002920de18e@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: <20140302161455.cb3cc8d371ae0d5c01096778@jasonhsu.com> Taken On Sun, 2 Mar 2014 14:22:30 -0600 Jason Hsu wrote: > I am giving away the book _FreeBSD 6 Unleashed_ and the DVD that came with it. Please contact me if you are interested. > > -- > Jason Hsu > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jason Hsu From ryanjcole at me.com Sun Mar 2 16:22:50 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2014 16:22:50 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about printing' In-Reply-To: References: <3507DDE5-4DDF-4C0B-9A33-B8877D8F74A4@me.com> <3760AD7A-82D2-48F0-AB48-39138F605E5D@me.com> Message-ID: <510AE7DB-8D15-4F90-84FB-82DFA86471E8@me.com> On Mar 2, 2014, at 9:22 AM, Jeff Chapin wrote: > Ok, I think I am missing emails here? I?m pretty sure that you are not missing anything. > I see multiple people bending over backwards to explain things to Paul G, over the course of multiple threads, and Paul G repeatedly changes the subject in the middle of an ongoing discussion to ask about unrelated issues and randomly starts getting snarky and deliberately offensive to those helping him. Once this attitude appears, he starts to hide more and more behind increasingly erratic language and repeated uses of being 'not as advanced' or 'just a noob' -- but I can never seem to see or understand what triggers this. I used to make excuses - now I just accept most people know more about this stuff than I do. There are people out there that just act that way - I had one on my VERY FIRST post to the pfSense mailing list and I ripped him a new one for it. I haven?t seen a single post from that person since. > Ryan, I think you have gone above and beyond trying to help here, and I am amazed at the way you are being treated like a personal Google right now. Thanks. I don?t mind it - but his last response went way over the line. I have an odd personality. I find many people nice and wonderful but a few minutes later I can get very annoyed. Not often, but it?s frustrating for everyone (YES i know there?s a term for it - that?s not the point of my comment). But it?s like pending steel: You can push and push and push and when it?s going to break it will just break clean. There will be a wicked outburst of energy but the schism is obvious, and permanent. > Reading over these threads, this post on slash7.com comes to mind: http://slash7.com/2006/12/22/vampires/. I have found it's viewpoint very helpful and constructive in the past, and I think that there are people here that it can help. Oh my. I skimmed much of it but read a lot. I hope paul g does, too. Thanks for sharing! > > Jeff > > > > > On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > > On Mar 1, 2014, at 11:27 PM, paul g wrote: > >> I'm glad you enjoy Apple so much some of us can't afford them. > > Neither can I, asshole. This computer I have is falling apart. It?s 5 years old. I?m unemployed (as of two weeks ago) and my previous employer is apparently interested in starting a legal case over my last week?s pay. > > Shove your attitude into someone?s face that gives a shit. > > >> From: ryanjcole at me.com >> Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 22:39:49 -0600 >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' >> >> >> On Mar 1, 2014, at 10:10 PM, paul g wrote: >> >> Understood and thanks for your input on this matter as well. I am currently still having 'problems' with the BRN-295CN fax ability and yes it does show up upon entering 'http://localhost:631/printers' among my home network which is 'Cups' based at this time. You are correct Ryan because in order to setup a Windows based printer one must install software on the computer in order for it to talk with the router or perhaps ad-hoc in order for the wireless enabled printer to work?. >> >> That?s not what I meant. Drivers are implied, protocols are specific. My Mac, for example (the nearest thing I run to your setup) offers LPD, IPP and HP JetDirect (Socket) support. That?s what I mean. >> >> >> Windows 7 was an example because me being a 'noob maybe very slow also' I attached a friends wireless printer to their home router on a Windows 7 computer recently and it was mind you difficult a bit. >> >> The print server is built into either: >> 1) the computer (if plugged in via USB, Parallel or Firewire) >> 2) the router (if plugged in via USB) >> 3) the printer (if WLAN or LAN-based) >> >> Are static ip addresses important when setting up a printer which is unattached physically from a print server 'the printer is alone in a room with no cords or cables except for the ac current?? >> >> That depends on the protocol involved and what your computer is looking for. Many printers use Apple?s Bonjour and Windows? NETBIOS (I may be on the wrong announcer service here - there are so damn many in Windows) to tell the world they exist on a network. They are helpful sometimes but clutter traffic more often than not >> >> >> So many questions. >> >> So many answers. >> >> Thank you for your time. >> >> From: ryanjcole at me.com >> Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 20:43:43 -0600 >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' >> >> If it supports the correct protocols for Linux printing, yes. However a wireless Windows printer may not necessarily support anything else over WiFi. >> >> >> On Mar 1, 2014, at 5:00 PM, paul g wrote: >> >> I suppose the printer could be alone in a room unattached to only a ac outlet and then it could be setup to talk with the wireless router and then the desktop computers can communicate with the printer through the router somehow kindof like setting up a wireless printing in windows 7? >> >> From: pj.world at hotmail.com >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 16:37:33 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' >> >> I sure have learned some stuff today. I am going to have to work on understanding permissions alot. >> >> So what kindof relevance does any of the 'printers on board wireless dhcp/ip settings have at this point'? Is that mainly to setup the printer for a Windows wireless printing situation? >> >> >> >> Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 15:58:37 -0600 >> From: david.wagle at gmail.com >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' >> >> Because you have it configured to share that printer to the network >> >> >> On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 3:48 PM, paul g wrote: >> Another question I have for you is about the 'http://localhost:631/admin/' command. >> >> When I enter that command into the browser on the pc upstairs 'which is wireless on a DHCP networked router'. The Brother MFC-295CN printer shows up 'which is connected via USB cable to the pc downstairs 'which is also connected wirelessly to the router using DHCP. Why the heck is that anyways? >> >> Thank you for caring and your help. >> >> Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:52:54 -0600 >> >> From: david.wagle at gmail.com >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' >> >> Paul - try this: >> >> Open up a terminal >> mkdir a play space: $mkdir ~/testdir >> go there: $cd ~/testdir >> >> create a file: $touch test >> >> Look at it: $ls -l test >> >> -rw------- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test >> >> play with chmod: $chmod 110 test >> and see what it does: $ls -l test >> >> ---x--x--- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test >> >> try other values: $ chmod 421 test >> and see what they do: $ ls -l test >> >> -r---w---x 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test >> >> keep playing around till you understand how the number relate to permissions. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:41 PM, paul g wrote: >> Very Very solid advice if I do say so myself. This is a bit over my head but I will try to figure it out. Thanks for all your help. >> >> Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:20:27 -0600 >> >> From: david.wagle at gmail.com >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' >> >> I should add -- unless you have reason to do so, don't change the group ownership. Rather, limit the permissions to that group. >> >> >> On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:09 PM, David Wagle wrote: >> OK -- so understanding the numbers on modes: >> >> There are three sets of permissions, those for the OWNER, the GROUP and WORLD. >> >> Each permission set is controlled by a bit string that is 4 bits long. >> >> If the first bit is a 1, then that group has read permissions. >> >> A bit string (base 2) of 0001 has a decimal value of 1 because 0x2^3 + 0x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 1x2^0 = 1 and corresponds to execute permission >> >> A bit string (base 2) of 0010 has a decimal value of 2 because 0x2^3 + 0x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 2 and corresponds to write permission >> >> A bit string (base 2) of 0100 has a decimal value of 4 because 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 4 and corresponds to read permission >> >> The fourth bit is used for special permissions like "the sticky bit" and is really beyond the basics. >> >> Now, because the values of 1, 2 and 4 are bit-independent, any combination of those values is the equivilant of 'OR'ing the bit strings. >> >> So, if we want read and write permission we want both 4 and 2. That is we want the bit mask to be 011. Which is 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 6. Which is what you get if you add 4 + 2. >> >> So a mask of, say 751 is RWX for Owner, R+X for Group and R for World. >> >> As for which link to follow --- without your box in front of me to troubleshoot, I really can't say "here's what to do." >> >> However, I'd start with setting your library to minimal permission since what you're getting is a permissions error. That would be at least as strict as 660. >> >> I would also then check that your users are in the same group as your print service -- which is usually 'wheel,' but not always. >> >> >> On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:35 PM, paul g wrote: >> David thanks for the great link and advice. >> >> I will reset world with command? 'chown root:root brfaxfilter' >> >> I will then 'chmod go+x' >> >> ???? >> >> Can you please recommend which area of the link you sent I should possibly follow? >> >> There are chmod 555 and 700 's etc making me confused. >> >> I will restart 'cups' using the command 'sudo service cups restart' >> >> Thanks alot for your help with this. >> >> Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 00:11:02 -0600 >> >> From: david.wagle at gmail.com >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' >> >> Looks like you're not the only one to run into this: >> >> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1368410.html >> >> >> On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:06 AM, David Wagle wrote: >> Also - you probably have to restart CUPS to have it re-read the library. >> >> >> On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:03 AM, David Wagle wrote: >> Paul - again, there's no reason for world permissions to be anything. Anyone authorized to use the service should be in the same group as the service. >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 7:36 PM, paul g wrote: >> Again I am sorry to repost BUT the following should be noted: >> >> I am using a majic jack based telephone line system 'VOIP', >> >> I have adjusted the MFC-295CN to 9600 baud rate 'fax', >> >> I do of course have a high speed ethernet connection, >> >> Your help is always appreciated. >> >> Thank you for your time, >> >> Paul G >> >> >> From: pj.world at hotmail.com >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:16:31 -0600 >> >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' >> >> I just preformed a 'chmod' command and permissions NOW look like this for the file: >> >> located under: deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ >> >> -rwxrw-rw- 1 root deb 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter >> >> command I entered was: >> >> sudo chmod go-x brfaxfilter >> >> to remove execute. >> >> rebooted the machine same thing still shows up in Cups. >> >> Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:58:10 -0600 >> From: david.wagle at gmail.com >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' >> >> ls -l of /usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter >> >> Looks like you have a sticky bit set and have it 'rwx' for all. It really only probably needs to be 'rw-' for owner and group, and then any user who is allowed to use it should be in that group. There should be no need for a sticky bit to be set. >> >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM, paul g wrote: >> I have successfully installed the 'CUPS' and the appropriate drivers for a model 'MFC-295CN' Brother printer. >> >> The machine is running kernel: Linux deb-desktop 3.2.0-59-generic #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux >> >> >> I can print documents properly as well as scan them using xsane. Test page printout work great! also 'full color'. >> >> My issue is with the accompanied 'BRFAX' which I have installed also uses 'Cups' is as follows: >> >> When I click on 'BRFAX' inside 'Cups' >> Reports an error: >> >> The error is as follows: 'shown in Cups' >> >> Stopped - File "/usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter" has insecure permissions (0100777/uid=0/gid=0). >> >> deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ ls -lah >> -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter >> >> dpkg -l | grep Brother >> >> ii brmfcfaxcups 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC/FAX fax share function driver >> ii brmfcfaxlpd 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC-FAX LPD driver >> ii brother-udev-rule-type1 1.0.0-1 Brother udev rule type 1 >> ii brscan-skey 0.2.4-1 Brother Linux scanner S-KEY tool >> ii brscan3 0.2.11-4 Brother Scanner Driver >> ii mfc295cncupswrapper 1.1.3-1 Brother CUPS Inkjet Printer Definitions >> ii mfc295cnlpr 1.1.3-1 Brother lpr Inkjet Printer Definitions >> ii printer-driver-ptouch 1.3-3ubuntu0.1 printer driver Brother P-touch label printers >> >> Any ideas on where to go from here? >> >> Thank You, >> >> Paul G >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Sun Mar 2 16:26:08 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2014 16:26:08 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about printing' In-Reply-To: <510AE7DB-8D15-4F90-84FB-82DFA86471E8@me.com> References: <3507DDE5-4DDF-4C0B-9A33-B8877D8F74A4@me.com> <3760AD7A-82D2-48F0-AB48-39138F605E5D@me.com> <510AE7DB-8D15-4F90-84FB-82DFA86471E8@me.com> Message-ID: <9C734768-6012-4184-A538-16C0BFD5360A@me.com> I mean ?bending steel?. I think the auto-correct in Apple Mail got the better of that sentence. On Mar 2, 2014, at 4:22 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > > On Mar 2, 2014, at 9:22 AM, Jeff Chapin wrote: > >> Ok, I think I am missing emails here? > > I?m pretty sure that you are not missing anything. > >> I see multiple people bending over backwards to explain things to Paul G, over the course of multiple threads, and Paul G repeatedly changes the subject in the middle of an ongoing discussion to ask about unrelated issues and randomly starts getting snarky and deliberately offensive to those helping him. Once this attitude appears, he starts to hide more and more behind increasingly erratic language and repeated uses of being 'not as advanced' or 'just a noob' -- but I can never seem to see or understand what triggers this. > > I used to make excuses - now I just accept most people know more about this stuff than I do. There are people out there that just act that way - I had one on my VERY FIRST post to the pfSense mailing list and I ripped him a new one for it. I haven?t seen a single post from that person since. > >> Ryan, I think you have gone above and beyond trying to help here, and I am amazed at the way you are being treated like a personal Google right now. > > Thanks. I don?t mind it - but his last response went way over the line. I have an odd personality. I find many people nice and wonderful but a few minutes later I can get very annoyed. Not often, but it?s frustrating for everyone (YES i know there?s a term for it - that?s not the point of my comment). But it?s like pending steel: You can push and push and push and when it?s going to break it will just break clean. There will be a wicked outburst of energy but the schism is obvious, and permanent. > >> Reading over these threads, this post on slash7.com comes to mind: http://slash7.com/2006/12/22/vampires/. I have found it's viewpoint very helpful and constructive in the past, and I think that there are people here that it can help. > > Oh my. I skimmed much of it but read a lot. I hope paul g does, too. > > Thanks for sharing! > >> >> Jeff >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> >> On Mar 1, 2014, at 11:27 PM, paul g wrote: >> >>> I'm glad you enjoy Apple so much some of us can't afford them. >> >> Neither can I, asshole. This computer I have is falling apart. It?s 5 years old. I?m unemployed (as of two weeks ago) and my previous employer is apparently interested in starting a legal case over my last week?s pay. >> >> Shove your attitude into someone?s face that gives a shit. >> >> >>> From: ryanjcole at me.com >>> Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 22:39:49 -0600 >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' >>> >>> >>> On Mar 1, 2014, at 10:10 PM, paul g wrote: >>> >>> Understood and thanks for your input on this matter as well. I am currently still having 'problems' with the BRN-295CN fax ability and yes it does show up upon entering 'http://localhost:631/printers' among my home network which is 'Cups' based at this time. You are correct Ryan because in order to setup a Windows based printer one must install software on the computer in order for it to talk with the router or perhaps ad-hoc in order for the wireless enabled printer to work?. >>> >>> That?s not what I meant. Drivers are implied, protocols are specific. My Mac, for example (the nearest thing I run to your setup) offers LPD, IPP and HP JetDirect (Socket) support. That?s what I mean. >>> >>> >>> Windows 7 was an example because me being a 'noob maybe very slow also' I attached a friends wireless printer to their home router on a Windows 7 computer recently and it was mind you difficult a bit. >>> >>> The print server is built into either: >>> 1) the computer (if plugged in via USB, Parallel or Firewire) >>> 2) the router (if plugged in via USB) >>> 3) the printer (if WLAN or LAN-based) >>> >>> Are static ip addresses important when setting up a printer which is unattached physically from a print server 'the printer is alone in a room with no cords or cables except for the ac current?? >>> >>> That depends on the protocol involved and what your computer is looking for. Many printers use Apple?s Bonjour and Windows? NETBIOS (I may be on the wrong announcer service here - there are so damn many in Windows) to tell the world they exist on a network. They are helpful sometimes but clutter traffic more often than not >>> >>> >>> So many questions. >>> >>> So many answers. >>> >>> Thank you for your time. >>> >>> From: ryanjcole at me.com >>> Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 20:43:43 -0600 >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' >>> >>> If it supports the correct protocols for Linux printing, yes. However a wireless Windows printer may not necessarily support anything else over WiFi. >>> >>> >>> On Mar 1, 2014, at 5:00 PM, paul g wrote: >>> >>> I suppose the printer could be alone in a room unattached to only a ac outlet and then it could be setup to talk with the wireless router and then the desktop computers can communicate with the printer through the router somehow kindof like setting up a wireless printing in windows 7? >>> >>> From: pj.world at hotmail.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 16:37:33 -0600 >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' >>> >>> I sure have learned some stuff today. I am going to have to work on understanding permissions alot. >>> >>> So what kindof relevance does any of the 'printers on board wireless dhcp/ip settings have at this point'? Is that mainly to setup the printer for a Windows wireless printing situation? >>> >>> >>> >>> Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 15:58:37 -0600 >>> From: david.wagle at gmail.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' >>> >>> Because you have it configured to share that printer to the network >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 3:48 PM, paul g wrote: >>> Another question I have for you is about the 'http://localhost:631/admin/' command. >>> >>> When I enter that command into the browser on the pc upstairs 'which is wireless on a DHCP networked router'. The Brother MFC-295CN printer shows up 'which is connected via USB cable to the pc downstairs 'which is also connected wirelessly to the router using DHCP. Why the heck is that anyways? >>> >>> Thank you for caring and your help. >>> >>> Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:52:54 -0600 >>> >>> From: david.wagle at gmail.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' >>> >>> Paul - try this: >>> >>> Open up a terminal >>> mkdir a play space: $mkdir ~/testdir >>> go there: $cd ~/testdir >>> >>> create a file: $touch test >>> >>> Look at it: $ls -l test >>> >>> -rw------- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test >>> >>> play with chmod: $chmod 110 test >>> and see what it does: $ls -l test >>> >>> ---x--x--- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test >>> >>> try other values: $ chmod 421 test >>> and see what they do: $ ls -l test >>> >>> -r---w---x 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test >>> >>> keep playing around till you understand how the number relate to permissions. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:41 PM, paul g wrote: >>> Very Very solid advice if I do say so myself. This is a bit over my head but I will try to figure it out. Thanks for all your help. >>> >>> Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:20:27 -0600 >>> >>> From: david.wagle at gmail.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' >>> >>> I should add -- unless you have reason to do so, don't change the group ownership. Rather, limit the permissions to that group. >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:09 PM, David Wagle wrote: >>> OK -- so understanding the numbers on modes: >>> >>> There are three sets of permissions, those for the OWNER, the GROUP and WORLD. >>> >>> Each permission set is controlled by a bit string that is 4 bits long. >>> >>> If the first bit is a 1, then that group has read permissions. >>> >>> A bit string (base 2) of 0001 has a decimal value of 1 because 0x2^3 + 0x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 1x2^0 = 1 and corresponds to execute permission >>> >>> A bit string (base 2) of 0010 has a decimal value of 2 because 0x2^3 + 0x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 2 and corresponds to write permission >>> >>> A bit string (base 2) of 0100 has a decimal value of 4 because 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 4 and corresponds to read permission >>> >>> The fourth bit is used for special permissions like "the sticky bit" and is really beyond the basics. >>> >>> Now, because the values of 1, 2 and 4 are bit-independent, any combination of those values is the equivilant of 'OR'ing the bit strings. >>> >>> So, if we want read and write permission we want both 4 and 2. That is we want the bit mask to be 011. Which is 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 6. Which is what you get if you add 4 + 2. >>> >>> So a mask of, say 751 is RWX for Owner, R+X for Group and R for World. >>> >>> As for which link to follow --- without your box in front of me to troubleshoot, I really can't say "here's what to do." >>> >>> However, I'd start with setting your library to minimal permission since what you're getting is a permissions error. That would be at least as strict as 660. >>> >>> I would also then check that your users are in the same group as your print service -- which is usually 'wheel,' but not always. >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:35 PM, paul g wrote: >>> David thanks for the great link and advice. >>> >>> I will reset world with command? 'chown root:root brfaxfilter' >>> >>> I will then 'chmod go+x' >>> >>> ???? >>> >>> Can you please recommend which area of the link you sent I should possibly follow? >>> >>> There are chmod 555 and 700 's etc making me confused. >>> >>> I will restart 'cups' using the command 'sudo service cups restart' >>> >>> Thanks alot for your help with this. >>> >>> Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 00:11:02 -0600 >>> >>> From: david.wagle at gmail.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' >>> >>> Looks like you're not the only one to run into this: >>> >>> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1368410.html >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:06 AM, David Wagle wrote: >>> Also - you probably have to restart CUPS to have it re-read the library. >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:03 AM, David Wagle wrote: >>> Paul - again, there's no reason for world permissions to be anything. Anyone authorized to use the service should be in the same group as the service. >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 7:36 PM, paul g wrote: >>> Again I am sorry to repost BUT the following should be noted: >>> >>> I am using a majic jack based telephone line system 'VOIP', >>> >>> I have adjusted the MFC-295CN to 9600 baud rate 'fax', >>> >>> I do of course have a high speed ethernet connection, >>> >>> Your help is always appreciated. >>> >>> Thank you for your time, >>> >>> Paul G >>> >>> >>> From: pj.world at hotmail.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:16:31 -0600 >>> >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' >>> >>> I just preformed a 'chmod' command and permissions NOW look like this for the file: >>> >>> located under: deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ >>> >>> -rwxrw-rw- 1 root deb 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter >>> >>> command I entered was: >>> >>> sudo chmod go-x brfaxfilter >>> >>> to remove execute. >>> >>> rebooted the machine same thing still shows up in Cups. >>> >>> Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:58:10 -0600 >>> From: david.wagle at gmail.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' >>> >>> ls -l of /usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter >>> >>> Looks like you have a sticky bit set and have it 'rwx' for all. It really only probably needs to be 'rw-' for owner and group, and then any user who is allowed to use it should be in that group. There should be no need for a sticky bit to be set. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM, paul g wrote: >>> I have successfully installed the 'CUPS' and the appropriate drivers for a model 'MFC-295CN' Brother printer. >>> >>> The machine is running kernel: Linux deb-desktop 3.2.0-59-generic #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux >>> >>> >>> I can print documents properly as well as scan them using xsane. Test page printout work great! also 'full color'. >>> >>> My issue is with the accompanied 'BRFAX' which I have installed also uses 'Cups' is as follows: >>> >>> When I click on 'BRFAX' inside 'Cups' >>> Reports an error: >>> >>> The error is as follows: 'shown in Cups' >>> >>> Stopped - File "/usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter" has insecure permissions (0100777/uid=0/gid=0). >>> >>> deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ ls -lah >>> -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter >>> >>> dpkg -l | grep Brother >>> >>> ii brmfcfaxcups 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC/FAX fax share function driver >>> ii brmfcfaxlpd 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC-FAX LPD driver >>> ii brother-udev-rule-type1 1.0.0-1 Brother udev rule type 1 >>> ii brscan-skey 0.2.4-1 Brother Linux scanner S-KEY tool >>> ii brscan3 0.2.11-4 Brother Scanner Driver >>> ii mfc295cncupswrapper 1.1.3-1 Brother CUPS Inkjet Printer Definitions >>> ii mfc295cnlpr 1.1.3-1 Brother lpr Inkjet Printer Definitions >>> ii printer-driver-ptouch 1.3-3ubuntu0.1 printer driver Brother P-touch label printers >>> >>> Any ideas on where to go from here? >>> >>> Thank You, >>> >>> Paul G >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Jeff Chapin >> President, CedarLug, retired >> President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" >> President, UNI Scuba Club >> Senator, NISG, retired >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sun Mar 2 17:21:33 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2014 17:21:33 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about printing' In-Reply-To: <9C734768-6012-4184-A538-16C0BFD5360A@me.com> References: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , <3507DDE5-4DDF-4C0B-9A33-B8877D8F74A4@me.com>, <3760AD7A-82D2-48F0-AB48 -39138F6 05E5D@me.com>, , , , <510AE7DB-8D15-4F90-84FB-82DFA86471E8@me.com>, <9C734768-6012-4184-A538-16C0BFD5360A@me.com> Message-ID: I am sorry I am frustrated and got overwhelmed. You haven't done anything wrong but try to help. From: ryanjcole at me.com Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2014 16:26:08 -0600 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' I mean ?bending steel?. I think the auto-correct in Apple Mail got the better of that sentence. On Mar 2, 2014, at 4:22 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote:On Mar 2, 2014, at 9:22 AM, Jeff Chapin wrote:Ok, I think I am missing emails here? I?m pretty sure that you are not missing anything. I see multiple people bending over backwards to explain things to Paul G, over the course of multiple threads, and Paul G repeatedly changes the subject in the middle of an ongoing discussion to ask about unrelated issues and randomly starts getting snarky and deliberately offensive to those helping him. Once this attitude appears, he starts to hide more and more behind increasingly erratic language and repeated uses of being 'not as advanced' or 'just a noob' -- but I can never seem to see or understand what triggers this. I used to make excuses - now I just accept most people know more about this stuff than I do. There are people out there that just act that way - I had one on my VERY FIRST post to the pfSense mailing list and I ripped him a new one for it. I haven?t seen a single post from that person since. Ryan, I think you have gone above and beyond trying to help here, and I am amazed at the way you are being treated like a personal Google right now. Thanks. I don?t mind it - but his last response went way over the line. I have an odd personality. I find many people nice and wonderful but a few minutes later I can get very annoyed. Not often, but it?s frustrating for everyone (YES i know there?s a term for it - that?s not the point of my comment). But it?s like pending steel: You can push and push and push and when it?s going to break it will just break clean. There will be a wicked outburst of energy but the schism is obvious, and permanent. Reading over these threads, this post on slash7.com comes to mind: http://slash7.com/2006/12/22/vampires/. I have found it's viewpoint very helpful and constructive in the past, and I think that there are people here that it can help. Oh my. I skimmed much of it but read a lot. I hope paul g does, too. Thanks for sharing! Jeff On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote: On Mar 1, 2014, at 11:27 PM, paul g wrote: I'm glad you enjoy Apple so much some of us can't afford them. Neither can I, asshole. This computer I have is falling apart. It?s 5 years old. I?m unemployed (as of two weeks ago) and my previous employer is apparently interested in starting a legal case over my last week?s pay. Shove your attitude into someone?s face that gives a shit. From: ryanjcole at me.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 22:39:49 -0600 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' On Mar 1, 2014, at 10:10 PM, paul g wrote: Understood and thanks for your input on this matter as well. I am currently still having 'problems' with the BRN-295CN fax ability and yes it does show up upon entering 'http://localhost:631/printers' among my home network which is 'Cups' based at this time. You are correct Ryan because in order to setup a Windows based printer one must install software on the computer in order for it to talk with the router or perhaps ad-hoc in order for the wireless enabled printer to work?. That?s not what I meant. Drivers are implied, protocols are specific. My Mac, for example (the nearest thing I run to your setup) offers LPD, IPP and HP JetDirect (Socket) support. That?s what I mean. Windows 7 was an example because me being a 'noob maybe very slow also' I attached a friends wireless printer to their home router on a Windows 7 computer recently and it was mind you difficult a bit. The print server is built into either: 1) the computer (if plugged in via USB, Parallel or Firewire) 2) the router (if plugged in via USB) 3) the printer (if WLAN or LAN-based) Are static ip addresses important when setting up a printer which is unattached physically from a print server 'the printer is alone in a room with no cords or cables except for the ac current?? That depends on the protocol involved and what your computer is looking for. Many printers use Apple?s Bonjour and Windows? NETBIOS (I may be on the wrong announcer service here - there are so damn many in Windows) to tell the world they exist on a network. They are helpful sometimes but clutter traffic more often than not So many questions. So many answers. Thank you for your time. From: ryanjcole at me.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 20:43:43 -0600 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' If it supports the correct protocols for Linux printing, yes. However a wireless Windows printer may not necessarily support anything else over WiFi. On Mar 1, 2014, at 5:00 PM, paul g wrote: I suppose the printer could be alone in a room unattached to only a ac outlet and then it could be setup to talk with the wireless router and then the desktop computers can communicate with the printer through the router somehow kindof like setting up a wireless printing in windows 7? From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 16:37:33 -0600 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' I sure have learned some stuff today. I am going to have to work on understanding permissions alot. So what kindof relevance does any of the 'printers on board wireless dhcp/ip settings have at this point'? Is that mainly to setup the printer for a Windows wireless printing situation? Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 15:58:37 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' Because you have it configured to share that printer to the network On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 3:48 PM, paul g wrote: Another question I have for you is about the 'http://localhost:631/admin/' command. When I enter that command into the browser on the pc upstairs 'which is wireless on a DHCP networked router'. The Brother MFC-295CN printer shows up 'which is connected via USB cable to the pc downstairs 'which is also connected wirelessly to the router using DHCP. Why the heck is that anyways? Thank you for caring and your help. Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:52:54 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' Paul - try this: Open up a terminal mkdir a play space: $mkdir ~/testdir go there: $cd ~/testdir create a file: $touch test Look at it: $ls -l test -rw------- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test play with chmod: $chmod 110 test and see what it does: $ls -l test ---x--x--- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test try other values: $ chmod 421 test and see what they do: $ ls -l test -r---w---x 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test keep playing around till you understand how the number relate to permissions. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:41 PM, paul g wrote: Very Very solid advice if I do say so myself. This is a bit over my head but I will try to figure it out. Thanks for all your help. Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:20:27 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' I should add -- unless you have reason to do so, don't change the group ownership. Rather, limit the permissions to that group. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:09 PM, David Wagle wrote: OK -- so understanding the numbers on modes: There are three sets of permissions, those for the OWNER, the GROUP and WORLD. Each permission set is controlled by a bit string that is 4 bits long. If the first bit is a 1, then that group has read permissions. A bit string (base 2) of 0001 has a decimal value of 1 because 0x2^3 + 0x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 1x2^0 = 1 and corresponds to execute permission A bit string (base 2) of 0010 has a decimal value of 2 because 0x2^3 + 0x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 2 and corresponds to write permission A bit string (base 2) of 0100 has a decimal value of 4 because 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 4 and corresponds to read permission The fourth bit is used for special permissions like "the sticky bit" and is really beyond the basics. Now, because the values of 1, 2 and 4 are bit-independent, any combination of those values is the equivilant of 'OR'ing the bit strings. So, if we want read and write permission we want both 4 and 2. That is we want the bit mask to be 011. Which is 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 6. Which is what you get if you add 4 + 2. So a mask of, say 751 is RWX for Owner, R+X for Group and R for World. As for which link to follow --- without your box in front of me to troubleshoot, I really can't say "here's what to do." However, I'd start with setting your library to minimal permission since what you're getting is a permissions error. That would be at least as strict as 660. I would also then check that your users are in the same group as your print service -- which is usually 'wheel,' but not always. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:35 PM, paul g wrote: David thanks for the great link and advice. I will reset world with command? 'chown root:root brfaxfilter' I will then 'chmod go+x' ???? Can you please recommend which area of the link you sent I should possibly follow? There are chmod 555 and 700 's etc making me confused. I will restart 'cups' using the command 'sudo service cups restart' Thanks alot for your help with this. Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 00:11:02 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' Looks like you're not the only one to run into this: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1368410.html On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:06 AM, David Wagle wrote: Also - you probably have to restart CUPS to have it re-read the library. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:03 AM, David Wagle wrote: Paul - again, there's no reason for world permissions to be anything. Anyone authorized to use the service should be in the same group as the service. On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 7:36 PM, paul g wrote: Again I am sorry to repost BUT the following should be noted: I am using a majic jack based telephone line system 'VOIP', I have adjusted the MFC-295CN to 9600 baud rate 'fax', I do of course have a high speed ethernet connection, Your help is always appreciated. Thank you for your time, Paul G From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:16:31 -0600 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' I just preformed a 'chmod' command and permissions NOW look like this for the file: located under: deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ -rwxrw-rw- 1 root deb 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter command I entered was: sudo chmod go-x brfaxfilter to remove execute. rebooted the machine same thing still shows up in Cups. Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:58:10 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' ls -l of /usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter Looks like you have a sticky bit set and have it 'rwx' for all. It really only probably needs to be 'rw-' for owner and group, and then any user who is allowed to use it should be in that group. There should be no need for a sticky bit to be set. On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM, paul g wrote: I have successfully installed the 'CUPS' and the appropriate drivers for a model 'MFC-295CN' Brother printer. The machine is running kernel: Linux deb-desktop 3.2.0-59-generic #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux I can print documents properly as well as scan them using xsane. Test page printout work great! also 'full color'. My issue is with the accompanied 'BRFAX' which I have installed also uses 'Cups' is as follows: When I click on 'BRFAX' inside 'Cups' Reports an error: The error is as follows: 'shown in Cups' Stopped - File "/usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter" has insecure permissions (0100777/uid=0/gid=0). deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ ls -lah -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter dpkg -l | grep Brother ii brmfcfaxcups 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC/FAX fax share function driver ii brmfcfaxlpd 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC-FAX LPD driver ii brother-udev-rule-type1 1.0.0-1 Brother udev rule type 1 ii brscan-skey 0.2.4-1 Brother Linux scanner S-KEY tool ii brscan3 0.2.11-4 Brother Scanner Driver ii mfc295cncupswrapper 1.1.3-1 Brother CUPS Inkjet Printer Definitions ii mfc295cnlpr 1.1.3-1 Brother lpr Inkjet Printer Definitions ii printer-driver-ptouch 1.3-3ubuntu0.1 printer driver Brother P-touch label printers Any ideas on where to go from here? Thank You, Paul G _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list_______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list_______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list_______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired_______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com Sun Mar 2 17:41:52 2014 From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2014 17:41:52 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] desktop Linux RAID card recommendation In-Reply-To: <20140228223801.GE45321@real-time.com> References: <20140227184554.GJ32948@real-time.com> <20140228223801.GE45321@real-time.com> Message-ID: If you want to do some serious research, a few of the RocketRAID cards are extremely low cost. Haven't used one (only worked with 622 model) that works well in Linux. Still better than Windows, at least it wouldn't crash the OS, just hose up the raid. NewEgg and Amazon offer some RocketRAID models with glowing Linux reviews for some models of RocketRAID, just stay away from the 622 IMO. -- Jeremy MountainJohnson Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 4:38 PM, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > So I'm not hearing any strong recommendations for a > low-end-but-well-supported RAID card. What are people doing on their desktop > Linux boxen for storage these days? > > Going with one drive, doing regular backups and hoping for the best? > > Software RAID? > > -- > Carl Soderstrom > Systems Administrator > Real-Time Enterprises > www.real-time.com > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ryanjcole at me.com Sun Mar 2 17:50:17 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2014 17:50:17 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] desktop Linux RAID card recommendation In-Reply-To: References: <20140227184554.GJ32948@real-time.com> <20140228223801.GE45321@real-time.com> Message-ID: I have two RR-2320s (8xSATA II, RAID 0,1,10,5) available. They were great on my BSD installation and their support was (mostly) helpful when FreeBSD 8.0 came out trying to get the drivers updated and tested. They?re not officially for sale - but I?ll definitely entertain offers. $265 new, both cards are a few years old. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816115026 On Mar 2, 2014, at 5:41 PM, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote: > If you want to do some serious research, a few of the RocketRAID cards > are extremely low cost. Haven't used one (only worked with 622 model) > that works well in Linux. Still better than Windows, at least it > wouldn't crash the OS, just hose up the raid. > > NewEgg and Amazon offer some RocketRAID models with glowing Linux > reviews for some models of RocketRAID, just stay away from the 622 > IMO. > -- > Jeremy MountainJohnson > Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com > > > On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 4:38 PM, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom > wrote: >> So I'm not hearing any strong recommendations for a >> low-end-but-well-supported RAID card. What are people doing on their desktop >> Linux boxen for storage these days? >> >> Going with one drive, doing regular backups and hoping for the best? >> >> Software RAID? >> >> -- >> Carl Soderstrom >> Systems Administrator >> Real-Time Enterprises >> www.real-time.com >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kenlynes at usa.net Sun Mar 2 22:40:27 2014 From: kenlynes at usa.net (Kenneth Lynes) Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2014 22:40:27 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Response to Paul and others Message-ID: <942sccenb2640S02.1393821627@web02.cms.usa.net> Hello guys, I dont think Paul ever meant to be snarky (not sure what that means exactly) but I can certainly understand if he is confused by some of the answers. I am not very good at going on the command line myself and not sure if I could do even as much as he has in following the advice given to him. I would probably have to need one of you to hold my hand the whole way and more than likely need almost endless corrections to what I was doing wrong. I think that the whole reaction to Paul being negative was when he said something to the effect that he understands how someone can like apple products etc but in his case he could not really afford them. I am in that class of people myself as well. In my experience there are a lot of things which apple (Macs and macbooks etc) do better than either linux or windows. One of them is connecting to printers. In my experience in the Commodore world and Amiga world and to a greater extent in the windows world, printers are the most exasperating thing to connect to in the computer world. It should be a very simple thing such as it is on a Mac, but in windows it is an absolute nightmare and in linux is sometimes almost as bad at times. I hope you knowledgeable guys will continue to help Paul and others like me to grope our way through the linux command line. I run into issues all the time and luckily I have more than one computer to fall back on and use. I would really welcome a learning session which would teach a lot of us some of the basics and if there is something I can do on a Social Security budget it would be nice to hear about it. I am almost totally lost on linux cli and probably could do a lot more if I had some way to learn more with some direct help. I know it is suggested to just go onto the command line and start typing things in. But there can be some severe consequences when you hit return on the keyboard. Too bad I cant sit in on a basic learning session for some kids. OOOPs, they might be too far advanced for me! LOL thanks for reading ------ Original Message ------ Received: Sun, 02 Mar 2014 05:23:26 PM CST From: tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: tclug-list Digest, Vol 111, Issue 19 > Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: A question about printing' (paul g) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2014 17:21:33 -0600 > From: paul g > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > I am sorry I am frustrated and got overwhelmed. You haven't done anything wrong but try to help. > From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com Mon Mar 3 07:41:26 2014 From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2014 07:41:26 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone using bcache? Message-ID: I have been experimenting a bit with Windows 7 and Intel SRT (HDD + SSD cache aka hybrid drive) on some work laptops and have been very impressed with the speed, specifically reads and general boot up time.This got my curiosity poking around for a Linux solution (since there isn't a consumer option for Intel SRT and Linux). Is anyone using bcache at all? If so, I'd be interested to hear about general performance perspectives and applicable uses folks are deploying it for (ie. server types, workstation, etc). bcache site: hxxp://bcache.evilpiepirate.org/ Regards, -- Jeremy MountainJohnson Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Mon Mar 3 09:41:56 2014 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2014 09:41:56 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Response to Paul and others Message-ID: > I dont think Paul ever meant to be snarky (not sure what that means exactly) > but I can certainly understand if he is confused by some of the answers. thank you for your message. i didn't even read the printer thread. don't have one. or a car. weird, huh? but i digress. my message to you and paul would be please remember people are people. often kind and helpful. tho sometimes, well, who knows. whatever. don't worry. we've all been there, on both sides. keep asking. helpful people will usually be here. From pj.world at hotmail.com Mon Mar 3 13:59:34 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2014 13:59:34 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about printing' In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , <3507DDE5-4DDF-4C0B-9A33-B8877D8F74A4@me.com>, <3760AD7A-82D2-48F0-AB48,-39138F6,05E5D@me.com>, , , , , , , <510AE7DB-8D15-4F90-84FB-82DFA86471E8@me.com>, , <9C734768-6012-4184-A538-16C0BFD5360A@me.com>, Message-ID: I was able to figure the problem. I think David was partially right about the 'sticky bit' set. I don't know the exact chmod number I set for the brnfaxfilter file but it reads O=rxw G=r-x W=r-x. After that the apostrophe went out but the fax still showed permission error and a paused symbol then appeared. I went into cups admin at localhost:631 and managed the fax from there added then brnfax filter from that interface. Then setup a test with a .ps file and linked open it with brnfax and a gui comes up with a number pad. I need to read more before posting. Sorry Ryan and everyone else who helped me out with this. From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2014 17:21:33 -0600 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' I am sorry I am frustrated and got overwhelmed. You haven't done anything wrong but try to help. From: ryanjcole at me.com Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2014 16:26:08 -0600 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' I mean ?bending steel?. I think the auto-correct in Apple Mail got the better of that sentence. On Mar 2, 2014, at 4:22 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote:On Mar 2, 2014, at 9:22 AM, Jeff Chapin wrote:Ok, I think I am missing emails here? I?m pretty sure that you are not missing anything. I see multiple people bending over backwards to explain things to Paul G, over the course of multiple threads, and Paul G repeatedly changes the subject in the middle of an ongoing discussion to ask about unrelated issues and randomly starts getting snarky and deliberately offensive to those helping him. Once this attitude appears, he starts to hide more and more behind increasingly erratic language and repeated uses of being 'not as advanced' or 'just a noob' -- but I can never seem to see or understand what triggers this. I used to make excuses - now I just accept most people know more about this stuff than I do. There are people out there that just act that way - I had one on my VERY FIRST post to the pfSense mailing list and I ripped him a new one for it. I haven?t seen a single post from that person since. Ryan, I think you have gone above and beyond trying to help here, and I am amazed at the way you are being treated like a personal Google right now. Thanks. I don?t mind it - but his last response went way over the line. I have an odd personality. I find many people nice and wonderful but a few minutes later I can get very annoyed. Not often, but it?s frustrating for everyone (YES i know there?s a term for it - that?s not the point of my comment). But it?s like pending steel: You can push and push and push and when it?s going to break it will just break clean. There will be a wicked outburst of energy but the schism is obvious, and permanent. Reading over these threads, this post on slash7.com comes to mind: http://slash7.com/2006/12/22/vampires/. I have found it's viewpoint very helpful and constructive in the past, and I think that there are people here that it can help. Oh my. I skimmed much of it but read a lot. I hope paul g does, too. Thanks for sharing! Jeff On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote: On Mar 1, 2014, at 11:27 PM, paul g wrote: I'm glad you enjoy Apple so much some of us can't afford them. Neither can I, asshole. This computer I have is falling apart. It?s 5 years old. I?m unemployed (as of two weeks ago) and my previous employer is apparently interested in starting a legal case over my last week?s pay. Shove your attitude into someone?s face that gives a shit. From: ryanjcole at me.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 22:39:49 -0600 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' On Mar 1, 2014, at 10:10 PM, paul g wrote: Understood and thanks for your input on this matter as well. I am currently still having 'problems' with the BRN-295CN fax ability and yes it does show up upon entering 'http://localhost:631/printers' among my home network which is 'Cups' based at this time. You are correct Ryan because in order to setup a Windows based printer one must install software on the computer in order for it to talk with the router or perhaps ad-hoc in order for the wireless enabled printer to work?. That?s not what I meant. Drivers are implied, protocols are specific. My Mac, for example (the nearest thing I run to your setup) offers LPD, IPP and HP JetDirect (Socket) support. That?s what I mean. Windows 7 was an example because me being a 'noob maybe very slow also' I attached a friends wireless printer to their home router on a Windows 7 computer recently and it was mind you difficult a bit. The print server is built into either: 1) the computer (if plugged in via USB, Parallel or Firewire) 2) the router (if plugged in via USB) 3) the printer (if WLAN or LAN-based) Are static ip addresses important when setting up a printer which is unattached physically from a print server 'the printer is alone in a room with no cords or cables except for the ac current?? That depends on the protocol involved and what your computer is looking for. Many printers use Apple?s Bonjour and Windows? NETBIOS (I may be on the wrong announcer service here - there are so damn many in Windows) to tell the world they exist on a network. They are helpful sometimes but clutter traffic more often than not So many questions. So many answers. Thank you for your time. From: ryanjcole at me.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 20:43:43 -0600 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' If it supports the correct protocols for Linux printing, yes. However a wireless Windows printer may not necessarily support anything else over WiFi. On Mar 1, 2014, at 5:00 PM, paul g wrote: I suppose the printer could be alone in a room unattached to only a ac outlet and then it could be setup to talk with the wireless router and then the desktop computers can communicate with the printer through the router somehow kindof like setting up a wireless printing in windows 7? From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 16:37:33 -0600 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' I sure have learned some stuff today. I am going to have to work on understanding permissions alot. So what kindof relevance does any of the 'printers on board wireless dhcp/ip settings have at this point'? Is that mainly to setup the printer for a Windows wireless printing situation? Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 15:58:37 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' Because you have it configured to share that printer to the network On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 3:48 PM, paul g wrote: Another question I have for you is about the 'http://localhost:631/admin/' command. When I enter that command into the browser on the pc upstairs 'which is wireless on a DHCP networked router'. The Brother MFC-295CN printer shows up 'which is connected via USB cable to the pc downstairs 'which is also connected wirelessly to the router using DHCP. Why the heck is that anyways? Thank you for caring and your help. Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:52:54 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' Paul - try this: Open up a terminal mkdir a play space: $mkdir ~/testdir go there: $cd ~/testdir create a file: $touch test Look at it: $ls -l test -rw------- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test play with chmod: $chmod 110 test and see what it does: $ls -l test ---x--x--- 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test try other values: $ chmod 421 test and see what they do: $ ls -l test -r---w---x 1 david users 0 Mar 1 13:45 test keep playing around till you understand how the number relate to permissions. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:41 PM, paul g wrote: Very Very solid advice if I do say so myself. This is a bit over my head but I will try to figure it out. Thanks for all your help. Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 13:20:27 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' I should add -- unless you have reason to do so, don't change the group ownership. Rather, limit the permissions to that group. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:09 PM, David Wagle wrote: OK -- so understanding the numbers on modes: There are three sets of permissions, those for the OWNER, the GROUP and WORLD. Each permission set is controlled by a bit string that is 4 bits long. If the first bit is a 1, then that group has read permissions. A bit string (base 2) of 0001 has a decimal value of 1 because 0x2^3 + 0x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 1x2^0 = 1 and corresponds to execute permission A bit string (base 2) of 0010 has a decimal value of 2 because 0x2^3 + 0x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 2 and corresponds to write permission A bit string (base 2) of 0100 has a decimal value of 4 because 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 0x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 4 and corresponds to read permission The fourth bit is used for special permissions like "the sticky bit" and is really beyond the basics. Now, because the values of 1, 2 and 4 are bit-independent, any combination of those values is the equivilant of 'OR'ing the bit strings. So, if we want read and write permission we want both 4 and 2. That is we want the bit mask to be 011. Which is 0x2^3 + 1x2^2 + 1x2^1 + 0x2^0 = 6. Which is what you get if you add 4 + 2. So a mask of, say 751 is RWX for Owner, R+X for Group and R for World. As for which link to follow --- without your box in front of me to troubleshoot, I really can't say "here's what to do." However, I'd start with setting your library to minimal permission since what you're getting is a permissions error. That would be at least as strict as 660. I would also then check that your users are in the same group as your print service -- which is usually 'wheel,' but not always. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:35 PM, paul g wrote: David thanks for the great link and advice. I will reset world with command? 'chown root:root brfaxfilter' I will then 'chmod go+x' ???? Can you please recommend which area of the link you sent I should possibly follow? There are chmod 555 and 700 's etc making me confused. I will restart 'cups' using the command 'sudo service cups restart' Thanks alot for your help with this. Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 00:11:02 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' Looks like you're not the only one to run into this: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1368410.html On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:06 AM, David Wagle wrote: Also - you probably have to restart CUPS to have it re-read the library. On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 12:03 AM, David Wagle wrote: Paul - again, there's no reason for world permissions to be anything. Anyone authorized to use the service should be in the same group as the service. On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 7:36 PM, paul g wrote: Again I am sorry to repost BUT the following should be noted: I am using a majic jack based telephone line system 'VOIP', I have adjusted the MFC-295CN to 9600 baud rate 'fax', I do of course have a high speed ethernet connection, Your help is always appreciated. Thank you for your time, Paul G From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:16:31 -0600 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' I just preformed a 'chmod' command and permissions NOW look like this for the file: located under: deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ -rwxrw-rw- 1 root deb 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter command I entered was: sudo chmod go-x brfaxfilter to remove execute. rebooted the machine same thing still shows up in Cups. Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:58:10 -0600 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing' ls -l of /usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter Looks like you have a sticky bit set and have it 'rwx' for all. It really only probably needs to be 'rw-' for owner and group, and then any user who is allowed to use it should be in that group. There should be no need for a sticky bit to be set. On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM, paul g wrote: I have successfully installed the 'CUPS' and the appropriate drivers for a model 'MFC-295CN' Brother printer. The machine is running kernel: Linux deb-desktop 3.2.0-59-generic #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux I can print documents properly as well as scan them using xsane. Test page printout work great! also 'full color'. My issue is with the accompanied 'BRFAX' which I have installed also uses 'Cups' is as follows: When I click on 'BRFAX' inside 'Cups' Reports an error: The error is as follows: 'shown in Cups' Stopped - File "/usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter" has insecure permissions (0100777/uid=0/gid=0). deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ ls -lah -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5.2K Nov 24 2005 brfaxfilter dpkg -l | grep Brother ii brmfcfaxcups 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC/FAX fax share function driver ii brmfcfaxlpd 1.0.0-2 Brother MFC-FAX LPD driver ii brother-udev-rule-type1 1.0.0-1 Brother udev rule type 1 ii brscan-skey 0.2.4-1 Brother Linux scanner S-KEY tool ii brscan3 0.2.11-4 Brother Scanner Driver ii mfc295cncupswrapper 1.1.3-1 Brother CUPS Inkjet Printer Definitions ii mfc295cnlpr 1.1.3-1 Brother lpr Inkjet Printer Definitions ii printer-driver-ptouch 1.3-3ubuntu0.1 printer driver Brother P-touch label printers Any ideas on where to go from here? Thank You, Paul G _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list_______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list_______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list_______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired_______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trieff at greencaremankato.com Mon Mar 3 16:40:23 2014 From: trieff at greencaremankato.com (Thomas Rieff) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2014 16:40:23 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Email List Software??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1188277481.2408175.1393886423862.JavaMail.zimbra@greencaremankato.com> What is available open source that would be comparable to Constant Contact and Mail Chimp??? Tom Thomas Rieff GreenCare 1717 3rd Avenue Mankato, MN 56001 (507) 344-8314 Office (507) 344-8316 Fax (507) 381-0660 Cell -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erikerik at gmail.com Mon Mar 3 16:54:27 2014 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2014 16:54:27 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Email List Software??? In-Reply-To: <1188277481.2408175.1393886423862.JavaMail.zimbra@greencaremankato.com> References: <1188277481.2408175.1393886423862.JavaMail.zimbra@greencaremankato.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 4:40 PM, Thomas Rieff wrote: > What is available open source that would be comparable to Constant Contact > and Mail Chimp??? PHPList? Honestly, though, email delivery is a really difficult thing to do reliably. Unless you're operating at a huge scale, you can likely use Mailchimp, etc., for free or very cheap. Both you and your recipients will have a *much* better experience than trying to roll your own. IP reputation management is a thorn in the side of all email system administrators. In order to ensure reliable delivery, commercial mail shops like Mailchimp spent a *huge* amount of time and money protecting, managing, and repairing the reputation of their SMTP server IP addresses. When you're rolling your own, you have to deal with this on your own, which can be a major time sink. What I often hear of is people spinning up a new Linode or DigitalOcean VM for this sort of thing, trying to deliver emails from it, and discovering that their IP had previously been used by a spammer and as such, is listed in several RBLs. What do you do at that point? Go around and try to convince all of these RBLs that you're not a spammer? Deploy a new VM, hoping you'll get a new IP? So - that's probably more information than you were looking for, but hopefully it'll give you a bit of pause to consider if this is really something you want to homebrew. -Erik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cdf123 at cdf123.net Mon Mar 3 17:13:30 2014 From: cdf123 at cdf123.net (Chris Frederick) Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2014 17:13:30 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: BGP / Routing expert needed... Message-ID: <53150C9A.7020100@cdf123.net> Has anyone here done anything with BGP on linux? I'm running multi-homed with static routing policies already, and just received an AS number and IP block assignment. As my schedule is rather full, I'm hoping to find someone who can help set this up. This would be a paid consultant job, details to be worked out. Please contact me off list if you're interested. Thanks, Chris Frederick From dariojcanelons at gmail.com Tue Mar 4 08:54:36 2014 From: dariojcanelons at gmail.com (Dario Canelon) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 14:54:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [tclug-list] Does anyone use UMN WiFi under Linux (Debian) References: Message-ID: Michael Moore gmail.com> writes: > > > This is an old thread, but I wanted to post an update in case anyone else comes across a similar problem.? > I don't think it was interference or a heavy netowork load anymore. I think sometimes either wifi drivers or the hardware itself get in a funny state. If I remove the wifi modules and then modprobe them again WiFi starts working great.? > > > Whenever I have network problems at the UMN now I sudo su to root, then run: > > rmmod iwldvm iwlwifi; sleep 1; modprobe iwlwifi > > As soon as I reconnect I can use the internet as expected.? > > > I think it has something to do with suspend. When I close my laptop it suspends. When it wakes up, there's about a 75% chance that I'll have to do the rmmod/modprobe thing to get connected again.? > > > -- > Michael Moore Hi Michael, thanks for these instructions, they did the trick for me. I'm on Ubuntu 12.04.3 BTW. In my case I had to: sudo rmmod wl sleep 1 sudo modprobe wl and it worked instantaneously. As you said, it has something to do with the "suspend" state. Thanks again, Dario From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com Wed Mar 5 17:27:34 2014 From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 17:27:34 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] [FS] D-Link DNS-323 two drive bay NAS Message-ID: Used DNS-323 (Rev C1, last one I believe) ARM based NAS for sale, bare (no drives included). Currently fully flashed with custom Alt-F firmware for added capabilities such as better RAID support, larger drives, ext4, better throughput, and BusyBox goodness. Will reset flash and config the network to requested specs (dhcp, static, hostname etc.) as it is a headless box. Has not been JTAG'ed but can be (a few good guides found on Google show how to do it). Configured by web interface, has stats and alerting for mdadm, SMART, etc. Kept in great condition for a couple of years and has never let me down running ext4 on RAID1, cifs, nfs, and ssh box. Like most low power ARM NAS boxes, even though it's gigabit Ethernet, it is more about quality over quantity (speed). It handled all music and 720p streaming along with nightly rsync backups just fine. Went with a newer, cheap server I can customize better, so I need to get rid of this one. Looking for $125 or best offer, comes with power adapter, and if you really need a shorty CAT5E cable I'll throw one in. CNet specs (RAID5, GPT support with Alt-f): http://www.cnet.com/network-storage/d-link-dns-323/4507-3382_7-32002040.html Alt-f page: https://code.google.com/p/alt-f/ -- Jeremy MountainJohnson Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com From pj.world at hotmail.com Fri Mar 7 23:19:49 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 23:19:49 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] easy to mount existing harddisks Message-ID: I could see how easily it was to mount and search an unencrypted drive while using a simple bootable .iso. Is Truecrypt easier than GPG i'm confused. I was able to set up a Truecrypt container. Sorry to be a bother. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com Sat Mar 8 09:08:20 2014 From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 09:08:20 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] easy to mount existing harddisks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Truecrypt is probably easier than gpg IMO considering it's user friendly gui in Linux. It will accept the use of either it's GTK gui or cli for mounting encrypted containers and partitions. Whereas gpg is mostly cli based with some key management gui options to my knowledge. -- Jeremy MountainJohnson Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 11:19 PM, paul g wrote: > I could see how easily it was to mount and search an unencrypted drive while > using a simple bootable .iso. > > Is Truecrypt easier than GPG i'm confused. > > I was able to set up a Truecrypt container. > > Sorry to be a bother. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From gene.kremer at visi.com Sat Mar 8 13:55:54 2014 From: gene.kremer at visi.com (Gene Kremer) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 19:55:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [tclug-list] apt missing on crouton Message-ID: I was excited to return to Linux after needing Windows for work for so long. Retirement and XP going gave me the nudge to get an inexpensive internet device that...joy!...I could install Linux on. OK, did that. Got an Acer C720 and installed crouton which is supposed to be an Ubuntu distro, but.....there is no apt! Can't install anything else. Did a refreshed install, but still no good. The Ubuntu forum called my question off-topic. Can someone tell me how to get a real Linux machine that I could do something on besides experience the Google hegemony. Good to be back after missing this group for years. From gene.kremer at visi.com Sat Mar 8 14:28:44 2014 From: gene.kremer at visi.com (Gene Kremer) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 20:28:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [tclug-list] apt missing on crouton References: Message-ID: Gene Kremer visi.com> writes: Add'l info: > Got an Acer..[Chromebook] > Can someone tell me how to get [upgrade this machine to ] a real Linux machine that I could do something on besides experience the Google hegemony. From skylineproject at gmail.com Sat Mar 8 14:31:27 2014 From: skylineproject at gmail.com (Brandon Johnson) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 14:31:27 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] apt missing on crouton In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C1F82AA-D328-4354-8E86-5FCEBDD5F900@gmail.com> Hey Gene! I'm a fellow Crouton user with a C710 (older version of the C720). I had a similar issue once, where sudo wasn't installed. I ran a command to run the chroot preparation scripts again (from Chrome OS, "sudo sh -e ~/Downloads/crouton -u -t {your desktop environment here} -r {your Ubuntu release name here}") and that resolved the issue for me. If you'd like to chat about this off-list as well, I'd be happy to. Welcome back, and have a great weekend! Brandon > On Mar 8, 2014, at 1:55 PM, Gene Kremer wrote: > > I was excited to return to Linux after needing Windows for work for so long. > Retirement and XP going gave me the nudge to get an inexpensive internet > device that...joy!...I could install Linux on. OK, did that. Got an Acer > C720 and installed crouton which is supposed to be an Ubuntu distro, > but.....there is no apt! Can't install anything else. Did a refreshed > install, but still no good. The Ubuntu forum called my question off-topic. > > Can someone tell me how to get a real Linux machine that I could do > something on besides experience the Google hegemony. > > Good to be back after missing this group for years. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From justin.kremer at gmail.com Sat Mar 8 14:34:33 2014 From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 14:34:33 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] apt missing on crouton In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Unfortunately, Chromebooks are a bit different from standard PC laptops, and Crouton is definitely a limited version of Linux. I guess I'm not surprised they called your question OT. Fortunately, there may be hope: http://chromeos-cr48.blogspot.fr/2013/10/chrubuntu-for-new-chromebooks-now-with.html I haven't tried that myself because the only Chromebooks I have access to are owned by work, but it looks pretty hopeful. - Justin On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 1:55 PM, Gene Kremer wrote: > I was excited to return to Linux after needing Windows for work for so long. > Retirement and XP going gave me the nudge to get an inexpensive internet > device that...joy!...I could install Linux on. OK, did that. Got an Acer > C720 and installed crouton which is supposed to be an Ubuntu distro, > but.....there is no apt! Can't install anything else. Did a refreshed > install, but still no good. The Ubuntu forum called my question off-topic. > > Can someone tell me how to get a real Linux machine that I could do > something on besides experience the Google hegemony. > > Good to be back after missing this group for years. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Mon Mar 10 21:27:57 2014 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 02:27:57 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Need some help with your C++ project? Message-ID: Im willing to donate 15 hours/week for six months to a project that uses the C++ Middleware Writer (CMW). (See link for more info on the CMW.) Also I'll pay $500 and give a $1,000 investment in my company to someone who helps me find someone interested in this. I'll pay the $500 after working for four months on the project. Ebenezer Enteprises works to reward investments to 3 times the original amount. So the investment would result in between $0 and $3,000, depending on how things go for the company. The dollar amounts above may increase in a few months. The new amounts will be on my website. I'm happy to report that several recent optimizations of the CMW have improved its performance significantly. -- Brian Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. http://webEbenezer.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erikerik at gmail.com Mon Mar 10 21:38:48 2014 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 21:38:48 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Need some help with your C++ project? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK, can we agree (Brian included) that this is getting quite spammy? However generous your offer may be, it's a bit incessant[1], and there doesn't appear to be a whole lot of interest. Perhaps you'd have better luck on a list that is more development-related. [1] http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-FxmLRBk/0/O/i-FxmLRBk.png -Erik On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 9:27 PM, Brian Wood wrote: > > Im willing to donate 15 hours/week for six months to > a project that uses the C++ Middleware Writer (CMW). > (See link for more info on the CMW.) > > Also I'll pay $500 and give a $1,000 investment in > my company to someone who helps me find someone > interested in this. I'll pay the $500 after working > for four months on the project. Ebenezer Enteprises > works to reward investments to 3 times the original > amount. So the investment would result in between > $0 and $3,000, depending on how things go for the > company. > > The dollar amounts above may increase in a few months. > The new amounts will be on my website. > > I'm happy to report that several recent optimizations > of the CMW have improved its performance significantly. > > -- > Brian > Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. > http://webEbenezer.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marc at e-skinner.net Mon Mar 10 22:46:06 2014 From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 22:46:06 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] easy to mount existing harddisks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <531E86FE.5010201@e-skinner.net> I"m a big fan of LUKS: https://access.redhat.com/site/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/6/html/Security_Guide/sect-Security_Guide-LUKS_Disk_Encryption.html I use it on my /home LVM partition, and every time I boot my machine it prompts me in a nice graphical format for my LUKS pass phrase. On 03/08/2014 09:08 AM, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote: > Truecrypt is probably easier than gpg IMO considering it's user > friendly gui in Linux. It will accept the use of either it's GTK gui > or cli for mounting encrypted containers and partitions. Whereas gpg > is mostly cli based with some key management gui options to my > knowledge. > -- > Jeremy MountainJohnson > Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com > > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 11:19 PM, paul g wrote: >> I could see how easily it was to mount and search an unencrypted drive while >> using a simple bootable .iso. >> >> Is Truecrypt easier than GPG i'm confused. >> >> I was able to set up a Truecrypt container. >> >> Sorry to be a bother. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From tclug at freakzilla.com Tue Mar 11 00:51:13 2014 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 00:51:13 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Need some help with your C++ project? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I second the motion. On Mon, 10 Mar 2014, Erik Anderson wrote: > OK, can we agree (Brian included) that this is getting quite spammy? However > generous your offer may be, it's a bit incessant[1], and there doesn't > appear to be a whole lot of interest. Perhaps you'd have better luck on a > list that is more development-related. > [1]?http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-FxmLRBk/0/O/i-FxmLRBk.png > > -Erik > > > On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 9:27 PM, Brian Wood wrote: > > Im willing to donate 15 hours/week for six months to > a project that uses the C++ Middleware Writer (CMW). > (See link for more info on the CMW.) > > Also I'll pay $500 and give a $1,000 investment in > my company to someone who helps me find someone > interested in this.? I'll pay the $500 after working > for four months on the project.? Ebenezer Enteprises > works to reward investments to 3 times the original > amount.? So the investment would result in between > $0 and $3,000, depending on how things go for the > company. > > The dollar amounts above may increase in a few months.? > The new amounts will be on my website. > > I'm happy to report that several recent optimizations > of the CMW have improved its performance significantly. > > -- > Brian > Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. > http://webEbenezer.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > From ryanjcole at me.com Tue Mar 11 00:52:26 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 00:52:26 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Need some help with your C++ project? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I figured it didn?t need seconding. On Mar 11, 2014, at 12:51 AM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: > I second the motion. > > On Mon, 10 Mar 2014, Erik Anderson wrote: > >> OK, can we agree (Brian included) that this is getting quite spammy? However >> generous your offer may be, it's a bit incessant[1], and there doesn't >> appear to be a whole lot of interest. Perhaps you'd have better luck on a >> list that is more development-related. >> [1] http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-FxmLRBk/0/O/i-FxmLRBk.png >> -Erik >> On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 9:27 PM, Brian Wood wrote: >> >> Im willing to donate 15 hours/week for six months to >> a project that uses the C++ Middleware Writer (CMW). >> (See link for more info on the CMW.) >> Also I'll pay $500 and give a $1,000 investment in >> my company to someone who helps me find someone >> interested in this. I'll pay the $500 after working >> for four months on the project. Ebenezer Enteprises >> works to reward investments to 3 times the original >> amount. So the investment would result in between >> $0 and $3,000, depending on how things go for the >> company. >> The dollar amounts above may increase in a few months. >> The new amounts will be on my website. >> I'm happy to report that several recent optimizations >> of the CMW have improved its performance significantly. >> -- >> Brian >> Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. >> http://webEbenezer.net >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Tue Mar 11 11:12:18 2014 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 11:12:18 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] virtual filesystem Message-ID: once upon a release there was an ability to install linux within an existing filesystem (eg vfat), without creating a separate partition, without creating a file to contain a virtual partition, and i don't think it ran with a ram based root filesystem either, rather it somehow contrived the extra filesystem data that wasn't provided by the underlying (eg if vfat) filesystem, and stored all files as files in that filesystem. does anyone know the terminology for this, and/or what distros/releases/versions can/could do it? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Tue Mar 11 11:14:47 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 11:14:47 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] virtual filesystem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I believe WUBI does this somehow. That's ubuntu running on Windows... Jeff On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 11:12 AM, gregrwm wrote: > once upon a release there was an ability to install linux within an > existing filesystem (eg vfat), without creating a separate partition, > without creating a file to contain a virtual partition, and i don't think > it ran with a ram based root filesystem either, rather it somehow contrived > the extra filesystem data that wasn't provided by the underlying (eg if > vfat) filesystem, and stored all files as files in that filesystem. does > anyone know the terminology for this, and/or what distros/releases/versions > can/could do it? > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erikerik at gmail.com Tue Mar 11 11:17:59 2014 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 11:17:59 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] virtual filesystem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 11:12 AM, gregrwm wrote: > does anyone know the terminology for this, and/or what > distros/releases/versions can/could do it? I don't know what it used to be called, but these days I believe it's called Docker[1], which can do essentially what you're asking. :) -Erik [1] https://www.docker.io/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuporglue at gmail.com Tue Mar 11 11:21:44 2014 From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 11:21:44 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] virtual filesystem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 11:14 AM, Jeff Chapin wrote: > I believe WUBI does this somehow. That's ubuntu running on Windows... > Jeff > I was under the impression that WUBI installed most of Linux to a disk image within Windows, with just enough outside of Windows to boot from the image. I might be wrong though, I only used WUBI once or twice. On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 11:12 AM, gregrwm wrote: > >> once upon a release there was an ability to install linux within an >> existing filesystem (eg vfat), without creating a separate partition, >> without creating a file to contain a virtual partition, and i don't think >> it ran with a ram based root filesystem either, rather it somehow contrived >> the extra filesystem data that wasn't provided by the underlying (eg if >> vfat) filesystem, and stored all files as files in that filesystem. does >> anyone know the terminology for this, and/or what distros/releases/versions >> can/could do it? >> > I don't know if you're looking this far back, but I used to have to use Loadlin (http://www.linux.sh/loadlin.html) to boot Linux on old computers. You installed Linux along side DOS, booted DOS and then ran LINUX.BAT to boot Linux. On old Macs you could use http://penguinppc.org/bootloaders/bootx/ to boot Linux from within Mac OS, but it required a separate partition for the Linux files. -- Michael Moore -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Tue Mar 11 11:37:22 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 11:37:22 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] virtual filesystem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I could easily be wrong about WUBI. I have never actually used it, but I, for some reason, had the impression that it used the same file system, and not a disk image... Using a disk image is much less impressive... On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 11:21 AM, Michael Moore wrote: > On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 11:14 AM, Jeff Chapin wrote: > >> I believe WUBI does this somehow. That's ubuntu running on Windows... >> Jeff >> > > I was under the impression that WUBI installed most of Linux to a disk > image within Windows, with just enough outside of Windows to boot from the > image. > > I might be wrong though, I only used WUBI once or twice. > > On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 11:12 AM, gregrwm wrote: >> >>> once upon a release there was an ability to install linux within an >>> existing filesystem (eg vfat), without creating a separate partition, >>> without creating a file to contain a virtual partition, and i don't think >>> it ran with a ram based root filesystem either, rather it somehow contrived >>> the extra filesystem data that wasn't provided by the underlying (eg if >>> vfat) filesystem, and stored all files as files in that filesystem. does >>> anyone know the terminology for this, and/or what distros/releases/versions >>> can/could do it? >>> >> > I don't know if you're looking this far back, but I used to have to use > Loadlin (http://www.linux.sh/loadlin.html) to boot Linux on old > computers. You installed Linux along side DOS, booted DOS and then ran > LINUX.BAT to boot Linux. > > On old Macs you could use http://penguinppc.org/bootloaders/bootx/ to > boot Linux from within Mac OS, but it required a separate partition for the > Linux files. > > -- > Michael Moore > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuporglue at gmail.com Tue Mar 11 11:44:13 2014 From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 11:44:13 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] virtual filesystem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 11:37 AM, Jeff Chapin wrote: > I could easily be wrong about WUBI. I have never actually used it, but I, > for some reason, had the impression that it used the same file system, and > not a disk image... Using a disk image is much less impressive... > Now you got me wondering and I had to look it up. Prepare to be unimpressed. Wubi adds an entry to the Windows boot menu which allows the user to run Linux. Ubuntu is installed within a file in the Windows file system (c:\ubuntu\disks\root.disk), as opposed to being installed within its own partition. This file is seen by Linux as a real hard disk. Wubi also creates a swap file in the Windows file system (c:\ubuntu\disks\swap.disk), in addition to the memory of the host machine. This file is seen by Ubuntu as additional RAM. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wubi_(Ubuntu_installer) -- Michael Moore -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Tue Mar 11 12:17:10 2014 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 12:17:10 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] virtual filesystem Message-ID: > > I don't know what it used to be called, but these days I believe it's > called Docker[1], which can do essentially what you're asking. :) > interesting, glad to learn of docker. however, UnionFS, which is used by docker, is a perhaps similar concept, but, orthogonal to the issue of manifesting a linux filesystem, without using a virtual partition, on top of a filesystem that does not satisfy the minimum requirements of a linux filesystem -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com Tue Mar 11 12:39:54 2014 From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (kelly) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 12:39:54 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] virtual filesystem References: Message-ID: <531F4A6A-0006E771@penguinpackets.com> ? > Tue Mar 11 2014 12:17:10 PM CDT from "gregrwm" >Subject: Re: [tclug-list] virtual filesystem > > >> ? >> >> I don't know what it used to be called, but these days I believe it's >>called Docker[1], which can do essentially what you're asking. :) >> >> >> >> > ? > > interesting, glad to learn of docker.? however, UnionFS, which is used by >docker, is a perhaps similar concept, but, orthogonal to the issue of >manifesting a linux filesystem, without using a virtual partition, on top of >a filesystem that does not satisfy the minimum requirements of a linux >filesystem > > > > > > > > > > (, 0 bytes) [View| Download] > ? > > > > > > Were you thinking of something like the old Zipslack? http://www.slackware.com/zipslack/ Patrick does not do it anymore, but it used to be a part of the Slackware releases. ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: URL: From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Tue Mar 11 14:06:48 2014 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 14:06:48 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] virtual filesystem In-Reply-To: <531F4A6A-0006E771@penguinpackets.com> References: <531F4A6A-0006E771@penguinpackets.com> Message-ID: > Were you thinking of something like the old Zipslack? ah yes, UMSDOS. history. languishing from lack of interest. from wikipedia.org/wiki/FAT_filesystem_and_Linux > The convention for such an installation is for the Linux root directory to be a subdirectory of the actual root directory of the DOS boot volume, e.g. C:\LINUX . The various Linux top-level directories are thus, to DOS, directories such as C:\LINUX\ETC (for /etc), C:\LINUX\BIN (for /bin), C:\LINUX\LIB (for /lib), and so forth. The umsdos filesystem driver automatically prepends the C:\LINUX\ to all pathnames. The location of the Linux root directory is supplied to the umsdos filesystem driver in the first place via an option to the loadlin command. So, for example, for the aforegiven root directory loadlin would be invoked with a command line such as loadlin c:\linux\boot\vmlinuz rw root=c:\linux . next question, i wonder if a similar ability, for linux to boot its root in a subdirectory, is available in other environments, eg ext3, or HFS+, and if any distros and/or installers exist that make use of that? or what the syntax would be with a root= argument that already specifies a UUID? From tclug at freakzilla.com Tue Mar 11 14:24:28 2014 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 14:24:28 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS II: ZFS Harder Message-ID: This is a follow-up to my ZFS woes from a month or so ago. Funny thing. When that machine had 16gigs of RAM + 16gigs of swap, it was using 15gig of RAM and not touching swap at all, and ZFS performace was horrible. So I threw another 16gigs of RAM in there. Now it uses 20gigs of RAM (still not touching swap, obviously) and ZFS performance is fine. Now, I am seeing occasional checksum errors. I stress-tested the heck out of the thing for a week or so (filled up the filesystem, then deleted most the junk I used for that, etc) and when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. I'm assuming that since I am running multiple redundancies that that's not a huge problem. Is this correct? Should I cronjob a scrub once a month? I'm pretty gald I didn't need to move away from ZFS... -- From jake.vath at gmail.com Tue Mar 11 14:35:35 2014 From: jake.vath at gmail.com (Jake Vath) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 14:35:35 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS II: ZFS Harder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Now, I am seeing occasional checksum errors. I stress-tested the heck out > of the thing for a week or so (filled up the filesystem, then deleted most > the junk I used for that, etc) and when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. > I'm assuming that since I am running multiple redundancies that that's not > a huge problem. Is this correct? Should I cronjob a scrub once a month? > Are you using ECC RAM? If you're not, then you'll see some checksumming/parity calculation errors. Is this a huge problem? I guess it could be when you consider how important your data is to you. Your ZPool(s) could get really screwed up if you're getting checksumming errors. A cronjob to scrub the system isn't a bad idea, I guess you'd have to make sure that nothing is going to try and use the system during the scrubbing process though. -> Jake -> Jake On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:24 PM, wrote: > This is a follow-up to my ZFS woes from a month or so ago. > > Funny thing. When that machine had 16gigs of RAM + 16gigs of swap, it was > using 15gig of RAM and not touching swap at all, and ZFS performace was > horrible. > > So I threw another 16gigs of RAM in there. > > Now it uses 20gigs of RAM (still not touching swap, obviously) and ZFS > performance is fine. > > Now, I am seeing occasional checksum errors. I stress-tested the heck out > of the thing for a week or so (filled up the filesystem, then deleted most > the junk I used for that, etc) and when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. > I'm assuming that since I am running multiple redundancies that that's not > a huge problem. Is this correct? Should I cronjob a scrub once a month? > > I'm pretty gald I didn't need to move away from ZFS... > > -- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Tue Mar 11 14:42:41 2014 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 14:42:41 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS II: ZFS Harder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Course I'm not using ECC RAM. This is a home system (: The data is... well, be nice if it didn't get corrupted, but if a video file gets a small glitch in it, it's not a huge deal. I can always rerip one disc if I need to. I also figured that's why I have two smaller raidz1 (which is equivalent to raid5, right?) pools - it should be able to fix the occasional checksum error. I've not seen any crop up on this setup until that scrub, which was after I copied and erased about 8TB a couple of times. So not super worried. I can't really not use the filesystem during a scrub, since a scrub takes over 24 hours. I could restrict it to read-only. Hey, that reminds me, for some reason the thing mounts as read-only when I reboot. And since it's not in fstab I don't know where to fix that... anyone?... On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Jake Vath wrote: > > Now, I am seeing occasional checksum errors. I stress-tested the > heck out of the thing for a week or so (filled up the > filesystem, then deleted most the junk I used for that, etc) and > when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. I'm assuming that since > I am running multiple redundancies that that's not a huge > problem. Is this correct? Should I cronjob a scrub once a month? > > Are you using ECC RAM? > If you're not, then you'll see some checksumming/parity calculation errors. > Is this a huge problem? I guess it could be when you consider how important > your data is to you. > Your ZPool(s) could get really screwed up if you're getting checksumming > errors. > > A cronjob to scrub the system isn't a bad idea, I guess you'd have to make > sure that nothing is going to try and use the system during the scrubbing > process though. > > -> Jake > > > -> Jake > > > On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:24 PM, wrote: > This is a follow-up to my ZFS woes from a month or so ago. > > Funny thing. When that machine had 16gigs of RAM + 16gigs of > swap, it was using 15gig of RAM and not touching swap at all, > and ZFS performace was horrible. > > So I threw another 16gigs of RAM in there. > > Now it uses 20gigs of RAM (still not touching swap, obviously) > and ZFS performance is fine. > > Now, I am seeing occasional checksum errors. I stress-tested the > heck out of the thing for a week or so (filled up the > filesystem, then deleted most the junk I used for that, etc) and > when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. I'm assuming that since > I am running multiple redundancies that that's not a huge > problem. Is this correct? Should I cronjob a scrub once a month? > > I'm pretty gald I didn't need to move away from ZFS... > > -- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > From jake.vath at gmail.com Tue Mar 11 14:59:47 2014 From: jake.vath at gmail.com (Jake Vath) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 14:59:47 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS II: ZFS Harder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yeah, I should have guessed that you weren't running ECC. I don't you should have too many problems. You're right, raidz1 is basically raid5. Read-only during the scrub is a good idea. I think you should be able to edit the mount settings in /etc/*vfstab*. -> Jake On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:42 PM, wrote: > Course I'm not using ECC RAM. This is a home system (: > > The data is... well, be nice if it didn't get corrupted, but if a video > file gets a small glitch in it, it's not a huge deal. I can always rerip > one disc if I need to. I also figured that's why I have two smaller raidz1 > (which is equivalent to raid5, right?) pools - it should be able to fix the > occasional checksum error. > > I've not seen any crop up on this setup until that scrub, which was after > I copied and erased about 8TB a couple of times. So not super worried. > > I can't really not use the filesystem during a scrub, since a scrub takes > over 24 hours. I could restrict it to read-only. > > Hey, that reminds me, for some reason the thing mounts as read-only when I > reboot. And since it's not in fstab I don't know where to fix that... > anyone?... > > > > > On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Jake Vath wrote: > > >> Now, I am seeing occasional checksum errors. I stress-tested the >> heck out of the thing for a week or so (filled up the >> filesystem, then deleted most the junk I used for that, etc) and >> when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. I'm assuming that since >> I am running multiple redundancies that that's not a huge >> problem. Is this correct? Should I cronjob a scrub once a month? >> >> Are you using ECC RAM? >> If you're not, then you'll see some checksumming/parity calculation >> errors. >> Is this a huge problem? I guess it could be when you consider how >> important >> your data is to you. >> Your ZPool(s) could get really screwed up if you're getting checksumming >> errors. >> >> A cronjob to scrub the system isn't a bad idea, I guess you'd have to make >> sure that nothing is going to try and use the system during the scrubbing >> process though. >> >> -> Jake >> >> >> -> Jake >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:24 PM, wrote: >> This is a follow-up to my ZFS woes from a month or so ago. >> >> Funny thing. When that machine had 16gigs of RAM + 16gigs of >> swap, it was using 15gig of RAM and not touching swap at all, >> and ZFS performace was horrible. >> >> So I threw another 16gigs of RAM in there. >> >> Now it uses 20gigs of RAM (still not touching swap, obviously) >> and ZFS performance is fine. >> >> Now, I am seeing occasional checksum errors. I stress-tested the >> heck out of the thing for a week or so (filled up the >> filesystem, then deleted most the junk I used for that, etc) and >> when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. I'm assuming that since >> I am running multiple redundancies that that's not a huge >> problem. Is this correct? Should I cronjob a scrub once a month? >> >> I'm pretty gald I didn't need to move away from ZFS... >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com Tue Mar 11 15:01:24 2014 From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 15:01:24 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS II: ZFS Harder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Not sure on the distro you have, but with ZFSonLinux you don't use fstab. For example, in Arch there is a service to handle this if enabled at boot (part of the zfs package). The file system mount point is configured with zfs user space tools, or defaults to what you set originally when you created the volume. Also, curious on the ram problems. Arch, the distro I use, is tweaked to be heavy on caching to RAM. So, often times when I am working with extensive I/O and large files, 90% of memory will be dedicated to caching in RAM and never touch swap (ext4, sw raid1). If I need that cached RAM, it diverts it out of the cache automatically. The free command shows how RAM is allocated. I'm no zfs expert, but perhaps zfs is caching like crazy to RAM, although now that you're stable with more RAM, this kinda debunks that. -- Jeremy MountainJohnson Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:42 PM, wrote: > Course I'm not using ECC RAM. This is a home system (: > > The data is... well, be nice if it didn't get corrupted, but if a video > file gets a small glitch in it, it's not a huge deal. I can always rerip > one disc if I need to. I also figured that's why I have two smaller raidz1 > (which is equivalent to raid5, right?) pools - it should be able to fix the > occasional checksum error. > > I've not seen any crop up on this setup until that scrub, which was after > I copied and erased about 8TB a couple of times. So not super worried. > > I can't really not use the filesystem during a scrub, since a scrub takes > over 24 hours. I could restrict it to read-only. > > Hey, that reminds me, for some reason the thing mounts as read-only when I > reboot. And since it's not in fstab I don't know where to fix that... > anyone?... > > > > > On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Jake Vath wrote: > > >> Now, I am seeing occasional checksum errors. I stress-tested the >> heck out of the thing for a week or so (filled up the >> filesystem, then deleted most the junk I used for that, etc) and >> when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. I'm assuming that since >> I am running multiple redundancies that that's not a huge >> problem. Is this correct? Should I cronjob a scrub once a month? >> >> Are you using ECC RAM? >> If you're not, then you'll see some checksumming/parity calculation >> errors. >> Is this a huge problem? I guess it could be when you consider how >> important >> your data is to you. >> Your ZPool(s) could get really screwed up if you're getting checksumming >> errors. >> >> A cronjob to scrub the system isn't a bad idea, I guess you'd have to make >> sure that nothing is going to try and use the system during the scrubbing >> process though. >> >> -> Jake >> >> >> -> Jake >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:24 PM, wrote: >> This is a follow-up to my ZFS woes from a month or so ago. >> >> Funny thing. When that machine had 16gigs of RAM + 16gigs of >> swap, it was using 15gig of RAM and not touching swap at all, >> and ZFS performace was horrible. >> >> So I threw another 16gigs of RAM in there. >> >> Now it uses 20gigs of RAM (still not touching swap, obviously) >> and ZFS performance is fine. >> >> Now, I am seeing occasional checksum errors. I stress-tested the >> heck out of the thing for a week or so (filled up the >> filesystem, then deleted most the junk I used for that, etc) and >> when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. I'm assuming that since >> I am running multiple redundancies that that's not a huge >> problem. Is this correct? Should I cronjob a scrub once a month? >> >> I'm pretty gald I didn't need to move away from ZFS... >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Tue Mar 11 15:03:19 2014 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 15:03:19 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS II: ZFS Harder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Iv'e never seen an /etc/vftab on Linux. Or anything but Solaris... On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Jake Vath wrote: > Yeah, I should have guessed that you weren't running ECC. > I don't you should have too many problems. > You're right, raidz1 is basically raid5. > > Read-only during the scrub is a good idea. > > I think you should be able to edit the mount settings in /etc/vfstab. > > -> Jake > ? > > > On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:42 PM, wrote: > Course I'm not using ECC RAM. This is a home system (: > > The data is... well, be nice if it didn't get corrupted, but if > a video file gets a small glitch in it, it's not a huge deal. I > can always rerip one disc if I need to. I also figured that's > why I have two smaller raidz1 (which is equivalent to raid5, > right?) pools - it should be able to fix the occasional checksum > error. > > I've not seen any crop up on this setup until that scrub, which > was after I copied and erased about 8TB a couple of times. So > not super worried. > > I can't really not use the filesystem during a scrub, since a > scrub takes over 24 hours. I could restrict it to read-only. > > Hey, that reminds me, for some reason the thing mounts as > read-only when I reboot. And since it's not in fstab I don't > know where to fix that... anyone?... > > > > On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Jake Vath wrote: > > > ? ? ? Now, I am seeing occasional checksum errors. I > stress-tested the > ? ? ? heck out of the thing for a week or so (filled > up the > ? ? ? filesystem, then deleted most the junk I used > for that, etc) and > ? ? ? when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. I'm > assuming that since > ? ? ? I am running multiple redundancies that that's > not a huge > ? ? ? problem. Is this correct? Should I cronjob a > scrub once a month? > > Are you using ECC RAM? > If you're not, then you'll see some > checksumming/parity calculation errors. > Is this a huge problem? I guess it could be when you > consider how important > your data is to you. > Your ZPool(s) could get really screwed up if you're > getting checksumming > errors. > > A cronjob to scrub the system isn't a bad idea, I > guess you'd have to make > sure that nothing is going to try and use the system > during the scrubbing > process though. > > -> Jake > > > -> Jake > > > On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:24 PM, > wrote: > ? ? ? This is a follow-up to my ZFS woes from a > month or so ago. > > ? ? ? Funny thing. When that machine had 16gigs of > RAM + 16gigs of > ? ? ? swap, it was using 15gig of RAM and not > touching swap at all, > ? ? ? and ZFS performace was horrible. > > ? ? ? So I threw another 16gigs of RAM in there. > > ? ? ? Now it uses 20gigs of RAM (still not touching > swap, obviously) > ? ? ? and ZFS performance is fine. > > ? ? ? Now, I am seeing occasional checksum errors. I > stress-tested the > ? ? ? heck out of the thing for a week or so (filled > up the > ? ? ? filesystem, then deleted most the junk I used > for that, etc) and > ? ? ? when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. I'm > assuming that since > ? ? ? I am running multiple redundancies that that's > not a huge > ? ? ? problem. Is this correct? Should I cronjob a > scrub once a month? > > ? ? ? I'm pretty gald I didn't need to move away > from ZFS... > > ? ? ? -- > ? ? ? > _______________________________________________ > ? ? ? TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > ? ? ? tclug-list at mn-linux.org > ? ? ? > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > From jake.vath at gmail.com Tue Mar 11 15:03:42 2014 From: jake.vath at gmail.com (Jake Vath) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 15:03:42 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS II: ZFS Harder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Call me stupid, but I forgot we were talking about ZFS on Linux... you're right. No *fstab* and no *vfstab*. Sorry about that. -> Jake On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Jeremy MountainJohnson < jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com> wrote: > Not sure on the distro you have, but with ZFSonLinux you don't use fstab. > For example, in Arch there is a service to handle this if enabled at boot > (part of the zfs package). The file system mount point is configured with > zfs user space tools, or defaults to what you set originally when you > created the volume. > > Also, curious on the ram problems. Arch, the distro I use, is tweaked to > be heavy on caching to RAM. So, often times when I am working with > extensive I/O and large files, 90% of memory will be dedicated to caching > in RAM and never touch swap (ext4, sw raid1). If I need that cached RAM, it > diverts it out of the cache automatically. The free command shows how RAM > is allocated. I'm no zfs expert, but perhaps zfs is caching like crazy to > RAM, although now that you're stable with more RAM, this kinda debunks > that. > > > -- > Jeremy MountainJohnson > Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com > > > On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:42 PM, wrote: > >> Course I'm not using ECC RAM. This is a home system (: >> >> The data is... well, be nice if it didn't get corrupted, but if a video >> file gets a small glitch in it, it's not a huge deal. I can always rerip >> one disc if I need to. I also figured that's why I have two smaller raidz1 >> (which is equivalent to raid5, right?) pools - it should be able to fix the >> occasional checksum error. >> >> I've not seen any crop up on this setup until that scrub, which was after >> I copied and erased about 8TB a couple of times. So not super worried. >> >> I can't really not use the filesystem during a scrub, since a scrub takes >> over 24 hours. I could restrict it to read-only. >> >> Hey, that reminds me, for some reason the thing mounts as read-only when >> I reboot. And since it's not in fstab I don't know where to fix that... >> anyone?... >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Jake Vath wrote: >> >> >>> Now, I am seeing occasional checksum errors. I stress-tested the >>> heck out of the thing for a week or so (filled up the >>> filesystem, then deleted most the junk I used for that, etc) and >>> when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. I'm assuming that since >>> I am running multiple redundancies that that's not a huge >>> problem. Is this correct? Should I cronjob a scrub once a month? >>> >>> Are you using ECC RAM? >>> If you're not, then you'll see some checksumming/parity calculation >>> errors. >>> Is this a huge problem? I guess it could be when you consider how >>> important >>> your data is to you. >>> Your ZPool(s) could get really screwed up if you're getting checksumming >>> errors. >>> >>> A cronjob to scrub the system isn't a bad idea, I guess you'd have to >>> make >>> sure that nothing is going to try and use the system during the scrubbing >>> process though. >>> >>> -> Jake >>> >>> >>> -> Jake >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:24 PM, wrote: >>> This is a follow-up to my ZFS woes from a month or so ago. >>> >>> Funny thing. When that machine had 16gigs of RAM + 16gigs of >>> swap, it was using 15gig of RAM and not touching swap at all, >>> and ZFS performace was horrible. >>> >>> So I threw another 16gigs of RAM in there. >>> >>> Now it uses 20gigs of RAM (still not touching swap, obviously) >>> and ZFS performance is fine. >>> >>> Now, I am seeing occasional checksum errors. I stress-tested the >>> heck out of the thing for a week or so (filled up the >>> filesystem, then deleted most the junk I used for that, etc) and >>> when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. I'm assuming that since >>> I am running multiple redundancies that that's not a huge >>> problem. Is this correct? Should I cronjob a scrub once a month? >>> >>> I'm pretty gald I didn't need to move away from ZFS... >>> >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Tue Mar 11 15:08:45 2014 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 15:08:45 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS II: ZFS Harder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I know how to set the mountpoint with ZFS - after all, it IS mounting - but I'm not sure why it's mounting read-only. I can go in and remount it in rw with no problem. And again, this is one of those "hey this just started happening..." things. It actually started when I tried using PCI eSATA controller - thought that might help performance - but it couldn't handle the port multiplier, so I took it out. Since then, it mounts read-only. I'm using Ubuntu server. I'm not sure what ZFS was/is doing with the RAM, but yeah, free (and top) were showing that the OS was using only 15gb of RAM. now that it has 32GB, it's using a lot more: Mem: 32317820 19757248 12560572 0 234420 1027288 I guess it might be much to expect ZFS to go "Hey I neeeed more RAM!" but... I got the filesystem up to 75% full, and it was still working just fine. And it took me days to fill it up THAT far, so I'm not worried about it getting that full anytime soon (I'm at 35% right now). And by then I can just... I dunno, build a new server for it (; On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote: > Not sure on the distro you have, but with ZFSonLinux you don't use fstab. > For example, in Arch there is a service to handle this if enabled at boot > (part of the zfs package). The file system mount point is configured with > zfs user space tools, or defaults to what you set originally when you > created the volume. > > Also, curious on the ram problems. Arch, the distro I use, is tweaked to be > heavy on caching to RAM. So, often times when I am working with extensive > I/O and large files, 90% of memory will be dedicated to caching in RAM and > never touch swap (ext4, sw raid1). If I need that cached RAM, it diverts it > out of the cache automatically. The free command shows how RAM is allocated. > I'm no zfs expert, but perhaps zfs is caching like crazy to RAM, although > now that you're stable with more RAM, this kinda debunks that. > > > -- > Jeremy MountainJohnson > Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com > > > On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:42 PM, wrote: > Course I'm not using ECC RAM. This is a home system (: > > The data is... well, be nice if it didn't get corrupted, but if > a video file gets a small glitch in it, it's not a huge deal. I > can always rerip one disc if I need to. I also figured that's > why I have two smaller raidz1 (which is equivalent to raid5, > right?) pools - it should be able to fix the occasional checksum > error. > > I've not seen any crop up on this setup until that scrub, which > was after I copied and erased about 8TB a couple of times. So > not super worried. > > I can't really not use the filesystem during a scrub, since a > scrub takes over 24 hours. I could restrict it to read-only. > > Hey, that reminds me, for some reason the thing mounts as > read-only when I reboot. And since it's not in fstab I don't > know where to fix that... anyone?... > > > > On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Jake Vath wrote: > > > ? ? ? Now, I am seeing occasional checksum errors. I > stress-tested the > ? ? ? heck out of the thing for a week or so (filled > up the > ? ? ? filesystem, then deleted most the junk I used > for that, etc) and > ? ? ? when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. I'm > assuming that since > ? ? ? I am running multiple redundancies that that's > not a huge > ? ? ? problem. Is this correct? Should I cronjob a > scrub once a month? > > Are you using ECC RAM? > If you're not, then you'll see some > checksumming/parity calculation errors. > Is this a huge problem? I guess it could be when you > consider how important > your data is to you. > Your ZPool(s) could get really screwed up if you're > getting checksumming > errors. > > A cronjob to scrub the system isn't a bad idea, I > guess you'd have to make > sure that nothing is going to try and use the system > during the scrubbing > process though. > > -> Jake > > > -> Jake > > > On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:24 PM, > wrote: > ? ? ? This is a follow-up to my ZFS woes from a > month or so ago. > > ? ? ? Funny thing. When that machine had 16gigs of > RAM + 16gigs of > ? ? ? swap, it was using 15gig of RAM and not > touching swap at all, > ? ? ? and ZFS performace was horrible. > > ? ? ? So I threw another 16gigs of RAM in there. > > ? ? ? Now it uses 20gigs of RAM (still not touching > swap, obviously) > ? ? ? and ZFS performance is fine. > > ? ? ? Now, I am seeing occasional checksum errors. I > stress-tested the > ? ? ? heck out of the thing for a week or so (filled > up the > ? ? ? filesystem, then deleted most the junk I used > for that, etc) and > ? ? ? when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. I'm > assuming that since > ? ? ? I am running multiple redundancies that that's > not a huge > ? ? ? problem. Is this correct? Should I cronjob a > scrub once a month? > > ? ? ? I'm pretty gald I didn't need to move away > from ZFS... > > ? ? ? -- > ? ? ? > _______________________________________________ > ? ? ? TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > ? ? ? tclug-list at mn-linux.org > ? ? ? > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > From tclug at freakzilla.com Tue Mar 11 15:09:23 2014 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 15:09:23 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS II: ZFS Harder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That's why I was asking (: Someone wake Linda up! On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Jake Vath wrote: > Call me stupid, but I forgot we were talking about ZFS on Linux... you're > right. No fstab and no vfstab. > Sorry about that. > > -> Jake > > > On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Jeremy MountainJohnson > wrote: > Not sure on the distro you have, but with ZFSonLinux you don't > use fstab. For example, in Arch there is a service to handle > this if enabled at boot (part of the zfs package). The file > system mount point is configured with zfs user space tools, or > defaults to what you set originally when you created the volume. > > Also, curious on the ram problems. Arch, the distro I use, is tweaked > to be heavy on caching to RAM. So, often times when I am working with > extensive I/O and large files, 90% of memory will be dedicated to > caching in RAM and never touch swap (ext4, sw raid1). If I need that > cached RAM, it diverts it out of the cache automatically. The free > command shows how RAM is allocated. I'm no zfs expert, but perhaps zfs > is caching like crazy to RAM, although now that you're stable with > more RAM, this kinda debunks that. > > > -- > Jeremy MountainJohnson > Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com > > > On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:42 PM, wrote: > Course I'm not using ECC RAM. This is a home system (: > > The data is... well, be nice if it didn't get corrupted, > but if a video file gets a small glitch in it, it's not a > huge deal. I can always rerip one disc if I need to. I > also figured that's why I have two smaller raidz1 (which > is equivalent to raid5, right?) pools - it should be able > to fix the occasional checksum error. > > I've not seen any crop up on this setup until that scrub, > which was after I copied and erased about 8TB a couple of > times. So not super worried. > > I can't really not use the filesystem during a scrub, > since a scrub takes over 24 hours. I could restrict it to > read-only. > > Hey, that reminds me, for some reason the thing mounts as > read-only when I reboot. And since it's not in fstab I > don't know where to fix that... anyone?... > > > > On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Jake Vath wrote: > > > ? ? ? Now, I am seeing occasional checksum > errors. I stress-tested the > ? ? ? heck out of the thing for a week or so > (filled up the > ? ? ? filesystem, then deleted most the junk I > used for that, etc) and > ? ? ? when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. > I'm assuming that since > ? ? ? I am running multiple redundancies that > that's not a huge > ? ? ? problem. Is this correct? Should I > cronjob a scrub once a month? > > Are you using ECC RAM? > If you're not, then you'll see some > checksumming/parity calculation errors. > Is this a huge problem? I guess it could be > when you consider how important > your data is to you. > Your ZPool(s) could get really screwed up if > you're getting checksumming > errors. > > A cronjob to scrub the system isn't a bad > idea, I guess you'd have to make > sure that nothing is going to try and use the > system during the scrubbing > process though. > > -> Jake > > > -> Jake > > > On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:24 PM, > wrote: > ? ? ? This is a follow-up to my ZFS woes from > a month or so ago. > > ? ? ? Funny thing. When that machine had > 16gigs of RAM + 16gigs of > ? ? ? swap, it was using 15gig of RAM and not > touching swap at all, > ? ? ? and ZFS performace was horrible. > > ? ? ? So I threw another 16gigs of RAM in > there. > > ? ? ? Now it uses 20gigs of RAM (still not > touching swap, obviously) > ? ? ? and ZFS performance is fine. > > ? ? ? Now, I am seeing occasional checksum > errors. I stress-tested the > ? ? ? heck out of the thing for a week or so > (filled up the > ? ? ? filesystem, then deleted most the junk I > used for that, etc) and > ? ? ? when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. > I'm assuming that since > ? ? ? I am running multiple redundancies that > that's not a huge > ? ? ? problem. Is this correct? Should I > cronjob a scrub once a month? > > ? ? ? I'm pretty gald I didn't need to move > away from ZFS... > > ? ? ? -- > ? ? ? > _______________________________________________ > ? ? ? TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > ? ? ? tclug-list at mn-linux.org > ? ? ? > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > From lkateley at kateley.com Tue Mar 11 15:25:31 2014 From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 15:25:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS II: ZFS Harder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: So yes zfs caches everything it can in the arc. Most distros have an arc max setting or some tunables for arc management. One of the easiest is setting primary-cache=metadata, that will tell zfs to only cache metadata. On Solaris there is file in /etc/zfs called zpool.cache. It functions similarily to the xxtab files in that if it exists it will be read in at boot and contains all device and filesystem info, but it differs in that if it doesn't exist it will be built with info from info on disks. Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 11, 2014, at 3:09 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: > > That's why I was asking (: Someone wake Linda up! > >> On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Jake Vath wrote: >> >> Call me stupid, but I forgot we were talking about ZFS on Linux... you're >> right. No fstab and no vfstab. >> Sorry about that. >> -> Jake >> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Jeremy MountainJohnson >> wrote: >> Not sure on the distro you have, but with ZFSonLinux you don't >> use fstab. For example, in Arch there is a service to handle >> this if enabled at boot (part of the zfs package). The file >> system mount point is configured with zfs user space tools, or >> defaults to what you set originally when you created the volume. >> Also, curious on the ram problems. Arch, the distro I use, is tweaked >> to be heavy on caching to RAM. So, often times when I am working with >> extensive I/O and large files, 90% of memory will be dedicated to >> caching in RAM and never touch swap (ext4, sw raid1). If I need that >> cached RAM, it diverts it out of the cache automatically. The free >> command shows how RAM is allocated. I'm no zfs expert, but perhaps zfs >> is caching like crazy to RAM, although now that you're stable with >> more RAM, this kinda debunks that. >> -- >> Jeremy MountainJohnson >> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com >> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:42 PM, wrote: >> Course I'm not using ECC RAM. This is a home system (: >> >> The data is... well, be nice if it didn't get corrupted, >> but if a video file gets a small glitch in it, it's not a >> huge deal. I can always rerip one disc if I need to. I >> also figured that's why I have two smaller raidz1 (which >> is equivalent to raid5, right?) pools - it should be able >> to fix the occasional checksum error. >> >> I've not seen any crop up on this setup until that scrub, >> which was after I copied and erased about 8TB a couple of >> times. So not super worried. >> >> I can't really not use the filesystem during a scrub, >> since a scrub takes over 24 hours. I could restrict it to >> read-only. >> >> Hey, that reminds me, for some reason the thing mounts as >> read-only when I reboot. And since it's not in fstab I >> don't know where to fix that... anyone?... >> >> On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Jake Vath wrote: >> >> Now, I am seeing occasional checksum >> errors. I stress-tested the >> heck out of the thing for a week or so >> (filled up the >> filesystem, then deleted most the junk I >> used for that, etc) and >> when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. >> I'm assuming that since >> I am running multiple redundancies that >> that's not a huge >> problem. Is this correct? Should I >> cronjob a scrub once a month? >> >> Are you using ECC RAM? >> If you're not, then you'll see some >> checksumming/parity calculation errors. >> Is this a huge problem? I guess it could be >> when you consider how important >> your data is to you. >> Your ZPool(s) could get really screwed up if >> you're getting checksumming >> errors. >> >> A cronjob to scrub the system isn't a bad >> idea, I guess you'd have to make >> sure that nothing is going to try and use the >> system during the scrubbing >> process though. >> >> -> Jake >> >> -> Jake >> >> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:24 PM, >> wrote: >> This is a follow-up to my ZFS woes from >> a month or so ago. >> >> Funny thing. When that machine had >> 16gigs of RAM + 16gigs of >> swap, it was using 15gig of RAM and not >> touching swap at all, >> and ZFS performace was horrible. >> >> So I threw another 16gigs of RAM in >> there. >> >> Now it uses 20gigs of RAM (still not >> touching swap, obviously) >> and ZFS performance is fine. >> >> Now, I am seeing occasional checksum >> errors. I stress-tested the >> heck out of the thing for a week or so >> (filled up the >> filesystem, then deleted most the junk I >> used for that, etc) and >> when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. >> I'm assuming that since >> I am running multiple redundancies that >> that's not a huge >> problem. Is this correct? Should I >> cronjob a scrub once a month? >> >> I'm pretty gald I didn't need to move >> away from ZFS... >> >> -- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. >> Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tlunde at gmail.com Tue Mar 11 15:26:59 2014 From: tlunde at gmail.com (T L) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 15:26:59 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS II: ZFS Harder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ZFS does "cache like crazy" to RAM and, in fact, you'll probably want to limit that on most Linux boxen. See http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/ars-walkthrough-using-the-zfs-next-gen-filesystem-on-linux/ Scroll down to the Initial Tuning section. Because of that and because if the way ZFS' checksumming works, you really, really want ECC if you care about your data. Intel has made ECC available on some cheap CPUs. I think that the lowest is $61 at retail. That said, I don't know of a 1150 ECC-friendly cheap motherboard. I run an AMD FX six core processor with a cheap ASUS motherboard that both do support ECC. The 10 drives in the box consume enough power that I'm not worked up about the extra watts (50?) required by going with AMD instead of Intel. Thomas On Mar 11, 2014 3:02 PM, "Jeremy MountainJohnson" < jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com> wrote: > Not sure on the distro you have, but with ZFSonLinux you don't use fstab. > For example, in Arch there is a service to handle this if enabled at boot > (part of the zfs package). The file system mount point is configured with > zfs user space tools, or defaults to what you set originally when you > created the volume. > > Also, curious on the ram problems. Arch, the distro I use, is tweaked to > be heavy on caching to RAM. So, often times when I am working with > extensive I/O and large files, 90% of memory will be dedicated to caching > in RAM and never touch swap (ext4, sw raid1). If I need that cached RAM, it > diverts it out of the cache automatically. The free command shows how RAM > is allocated. I'm no zfs expert, but perhaps zfs is caching like crazy to > RAM, although now that you're stable with more RAM, this kinda debunks > that. > > > -- > Jeremy MountainJohnson > Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com > > > On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:42 PM, wrote: > >> Course I'm not using ECC RAM. This is a home system (: >> >> The data is... well, be nice if it didn't get corrupted, but if a video >> file gets a small glitch in it, it's not a huge deal. I can always rerip >> one disc if I need to. I also figured that's why I have two smaller raidz1 >> (which is equivalent to raid5, right?) pools - it should be able to fix the >> occasional checksum error. >> >> I've not seen any crop up on this setup until that scrub, which was after >> I copied and erased about 8TB a couple of times. So not super worried. >> >> I can't really not use the filesystem during a scrub, since a scrub takes >> over 24 hours. I could restrict it to read-only. >> >> Hey, that reminds me, for some reason the thing mounts as read-only when >> I reboot. And since it's not in fstab I don't know where to fix that... >> anyone?... >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Jake Vath wrote: >> >> >>> Now, I am seeing occasional checksum errors. I stress-tested the >>> heck out of the thing for a week or so (filled up the >>> filesystem, then deleted most the junk I used for that, etc) and >>> when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. I'm assuming that since >>> I am running multiple redundancies that that's not a huge >>> problem. Is this correct? Should I cronjob a scrub once a month? >>> >>> Are you using ECC RAM? >>> If you're not, then you'll see some checksumming/parity calculation >>> errors. >>> Is this a huge problem? I guess it could be when you consider how >>> important >>> your data is to you. >>> Your ZPool(s) could get really screwed up if you're getting checksumming >>> errors. >>> >>> A cronjob to scrub the system isn't a bad idea, I guess you'd have to >>> make >>> sure that nothing is going to try and use the system during the scrubbing >>> process though. >>> >>> -> Jake >>> >>> >>> -> Jake >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:24 PM, wrote: >>> This is a follow-up to my ZFS woes from a month or so ago. >>> >>> Funny thing. When that machine had 16gigs of RAM + 16gigs of >>> swap, it was using 15gig of RAM and not touching swap at all, >>> and ZFS performace was horrible. >>> >>> So I threw another 16gigs of RAM in there. >>> >>> Now it uses 20gigs of RAM (still not touching swap, obviously) >>> and ZFS performance is fine. >>> >>> Now, I am seeing occasional checksum errors. I stress-tested the >>> heck out of the thing for a week or so (filled up the >>> filesystem, then deleted most the junk I used for that, etc) and >>> when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. I'm assuming that since >>> I am running multiple redundancies that that's not a huge >>> problem. Is this correct? Should I cronjob a scrub once a month? >>> >>> I'm pretty gald I didn't need to move away from ZFS... >>> >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu Tue Mar 11 16:07:31 2014 From: aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu (Andrew Berg) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 16:07:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS II: ZFS Harder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <531F7B13.1070706@my.hennepintech.edu> On 2014.03.11 14:24, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: > Now, I am seeing occasional checksum errors. I stress-tested the heck out of > the thing for a week or so (filled up the filesystem, then deleted most the > junk I used for that, etc) and when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. I'm > assuming that since I am running multiple redundancies that that's not a huge > problem. Is this correct? Should I cronjob a scrub once a month? The occasional failed checksum isn't a problem when you're using ZFS with redundancy. In fact, what makes ZFS awesome is that will fix these problems on its own. If you keep getting checksum errors, there is likely problematic hardware somewhere. Considering that it's not a constant stream of a bazillion errors, it's not likely a bad controller. Perhaps the disk just has a few bad sectors. That's not a problem since ZFS will cover you. I've started doing scrubs only once a month since I have yet to see an error with these disks, but I'd recommend you do them at least once a week just to keep an eye on it since you are seeing errors. Also take note of which disks have the errors. From chrome at real-time.com Tue Mar 11 16:47:52 2014 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 17:47:52 -0400 Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS II: ZFS Harder In-Reply-To: <531F7B13.1070706@my.hennepintech.edu> References: <531F7B13.1070706@my.hennepintech.edu> Message-ID: <20140311214752.GG603@real-time.com> On 03/11 04:07 , Andrew Berg wrote: > On 2014.03.11 14:24, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: > > Now, I am seeing occasional checksum errors. I stress-tested the heck out of > > the thing for a week or so (filled up the filesystem, then deleted most the > > junk I used for that, etc) and when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. I'm > > assuming that since I am running multiple redundancies that that's not a huge > > problem. Is this correct? Should I cronjob a scrub once a month? > The occasional failed checksum isn't a problem when you're using ZFS with redundancy. In fact, what makes ZFS awesome is that will fix these > problems on its own. Perhaps we're seeing ZFS actually catching errors that might have gone unnoticed with other arrangements? This article should be a cautionary tale: http://www.zdnet.com/has-raid5-stopped-working-7000019939/ Given the size of modern drives, I'm amazed that more people aren't going to RAID arrays for everything. The risks of data loss on single drives are just too high for any data one cares about. -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu Tue Mar 11 17:03:16 2014 From: aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu (Andrew Berg) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 17:03:16 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS II: ZFS Harder In-Reply-To: <20140311214752.GG603@real-time.com> References: <531F7B13.1070706@my.hennepintech.edu> <20140311214752.GG603@real-time.com> Message-ID: <531F8824.4020009@my.hennepintech.edu> On 2014.03.11 16:47, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > Perhaps we're seeing ZFS actually catching errors that might have > gone unnoticed with other arrangements? This is very likely the case. With most other filesystems, you'll likely just make the bad blocks redundant in your RAID array. From tclug at freakzilla.com Tue Mar 11 18:08:44 2014 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 18:08:44 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS II: ZFS Harder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Finally, the expert (: Yeah, I have an /etc/zpool/zpool.cache, but it seems to be in a (mostly) binary format rather than an editable text file. I think last time I rebooted it came up read-write, so maybe that... resolved itself... which is cool but I wish I had a bit more info on what the heck was going on! On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Linda Kateley wrote: > So yes zfs caches everything it can in the arc. Most distros have an arc max setting or some tunables for arc management. One of the easiest is setting primary-cache=metadata, that will tell zfs to only cache metadata. > > On Solaris there is file in /etc/zfs called zpool.cache. It functions similarily to the xxtab files in that if it exists it will be read in at boot and contains all device and filesystem info, but it differs in that if it doesn't exist it will be built with info from info on disks. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Mar 11, 2014, at 3:09 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: >> >> That's why I was asking (: Someone wake Linda up! >> >>> On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Jake Vath wrote: >>> >>> Call me stupid, but I forgot we were talking about ZFS on Linux... you're >>> right. No fstab and no vfstab. >>> Sorry about that. >>> -> Jake >>> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Jeremy MountainJohnson >>> wrote: >>> Not sure on the distro you have, but with ZFSonLinux you don't >>> use fstab. For example, in Arch there is a service to handle >>> this if enabled at boot (part of the zfs package). The file >>> system mount point is configured with zfs user space tools, or >>> defaults to what you set originally when you created the volume. >>> Also, curious on the ram problems. Arch, the distro I use, is tweaked >>> to be heavy on caching to RAM. So, often times when I am working with >>> extensive I/O and large files, 90% of memory will be dedicated to >>> caching in RAM and never touch swap (ext4, sw raid1). If I need that >>> cached RAM, it diverts it out of the cache automatically. The free >>> command shows how RAM is allocated. I'm no zfs expert, but perhaps zfs >>> is caching like crazy to RAM, although now that you're stable with >>> more RAM, this kinda debunks that. >>> -- >>> Jeremy MountainJohnson >>> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com >>> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:42 PM, wrote: >>> Course I'm not using ECC RAM. This is a home system (: >>> >>> The data is... well, be nice if it didn't get corrupted, >>> but if a video file gets a small glitch in it, it's not a >>> huge deal. I can always rerip one disc if I need to. I >>> also figured that's why I have two smaller raidz1 (which >>> is equivalent to raid5, right?) pools - it should be able >>> to fix the occasional checksum error. >>> >>> I've not seen any crop up on this setup until that scrub, >>> which was after I copied and erased about 8TB a couple of >>> times. So not super worried. >>> >>> I can't really not use the filesystem during a scrub, >>> since a scrub takes over 24 hours. I could restrict it to >>> read-only. >>> >>> Hey, that reminds me, for some reason the thing mounts as >>> read-only when I reboot. And since it's not in fstab I >>> don't know where to fix that... anyone?... >>> >>> On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Jake Vath wrote: >>> >>> Now, I am seeing occasional checksum >>> errors. I stress-tested the >>> heck out of the thing for a week or so >>> (filled up the >>> filesystem, then deleted most the junk I >>> used for that, etc) and >>> when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. >>> I'm assuming that since >>> I am running multiple redundancies that >>> that's not a huge >>> problem. Is this correct? Should I >>> cronjob a scrub once a month? >>> >>> Are you using ECC RAM? >>> If you're not, then you'll see some >>> checksumming/parity calculation errors. >>> Is this a huge problem? I guess it could be >>> when you consider how important >>> your data is to you. >>> Your ZPool(s) could get really screwed up if >>> you're getting checksumming >>> errors. >>> >>> A cronjob to scrub the system isn't a bad >>> idea, I guess you'd have to make >>> sure that nothing is going to try and use the >>> system during the scrubbing >>> process though. >>> >>> -> Jake >>> >>> -> Jake >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:24 PM, >>> wrote: >>> This is a follow-up to my ZFS woes from >>> a month or so ago. >>> >>> Funny thing. When that machine had >>> 16gigs of RAM + 16gigs of >>> swap, it was using 15gig of RAM and not >>> touching swap at all, >>> and ZFS performace was horrible. >>> >>> So I threw another 16gigs of RAM in >>> there. >>> >>> Now it uses 20gigs of RAM (still not >>> touching swap, obviously) >>> and ZFS performance is fine. >>> >>> Now, I am seeing occasional checksum >>> errors. I stress-tested the >>> heck out of the thing for a week or so >>> (filled up the >>> filesystem, then deleted most the junk I >>> used for that, etc) and >>> when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. >>> I'm assuming that since >>> I am running multiple redundancies that >>> that's not a huge >>> problem. Is this correct? Should I >>> cronjob a scrub once a month? >>> >>> I'm pretty gald I didn't need to move >>> away from ZFS... >>> >>> -- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. >>> Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From tclug at freakzilla.com Tue Mar 11 18:17:40 2014 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 18:17:40 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS II: ZFS Harder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That webpage has one of the weirdest title images I've ever seen. I'm saving this for future reference; right now everything is ticking along very well and I am NOT messing with it! This machine (while not exactly weak) is using fairly cheap commodity components. I've had it long before I needed ZFS on there. It's an AMD A-series CPU and cheap ASUS motherboard, I'm fairly surprised (and happy!) it supports more than 16gigs of RAM! Honestly if I knew what a hassle ZFS would be I'd have probably gone with XFS... I honestly expect the ZFS array to last longer than the machine itself, and when I build a new server for it I'll probably get something better that supports ECC. for now, this'll have to do. On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, T L wrote: > > ZFS does "cache like crazy" to RAM and, in fact, you'll probably want to > limit that on most Linux boxen. See > > http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/ars-walkthrough-using > -the-zfs-next-gen-filesystem-on-linux/ > Scroll down to the Initial Tuning section. > > Because of that and because if the way ZFS' checksumming works, you really, > really want ECC if you care about your data. > > Intel has made ECC available on some cheap CPUs. I think that the lowest is > $61 at retail. That said, I don't know of a 1150 ECC-friendly cheap > motherboard. > > I run an AMD FX six core processor with a cheap ASUS motherboard that both > do support ECC. The 10 drives in the box consume enough power that I'm not > worked up about the extra watts (50?) required by going with AMD instead of > Intel. > > Thomas > > On Mar 11, 2014 3:02 PM, "Jeremy MountainJohnson" > wrote: > Not sure on the distro you have, but with ZFSonLinux you don't > use fstab. For example, in Arch there is a service to handle > this if enabled at boot (part of the zfs package). The file > system mount point is configured with zfs user space tools, or > defaults to what you set originally when you created the volume. > > Also, curious on the ram problems. Arch, the distro I use, is tweaked > to be heavy on caching to RAM. So, often times when I am working with > extensive I/O and large files, 90% of memory will be dedicated to > caching in RAM and never touch swap (ext4, sw raid1). If I need that > cached RAM, it diverts it out of the cache automatically. The free > command shows how RAM is allocated. I'm no zfs expert, but perhaps zfs > is caching like crazy to RAM, although now that you're stable with > more RAM, this kinda debunks that. > > > -- > Jeremy MountainJohnson > Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com > > > On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:42 PM, wrote: > Course I'm not using ECC RAM. This is a home system (: > > The data is... well, be nice if it didn't get corrupted, > but if a video file gets a small glitch in it, it's not a > huge deal. I can always rerip one disc if I need to. I > also figured that's why I have two smaller raidz1 (which > is equivalent to raid5, right?) pools - it should be able > to fix the occasional checksum error. > > I've not seen any crop up on this setup until that scrub, > which was after I copied and erased about 8TB a couple of > times. So not super worried. > > I can't really not use the filesystem during a scrub, > since a scrub takes over 24 hours. I could restrict it to > read-only. > > Hey, that reminds me, for some reason the thing mounts as > read-only when I reboot. And since it's not in fstab I > don't know where to fix that... anyone?... > > > > On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Jake Vath wrote: > > > ? ? ? Now, I am seeing occasional checksum > errors. I stress-tested the > ? ? ? heck out of the thing for a week or so > (filled up the > ? ? ? filesystem, then deleted most the junk I > used for that, etc) and > ? ? ? when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. > I'm assuming that since > ? ? ? I am running multiple redundancies that > that's not a huge > ? ? ? problem. Is this correct? Should I > cronjob a scrub once a month? > > Are you using ECC RAM? > If you're not, then you'll see some > checksumming/parity calculation errors. > Is this a huge problem? I guess it could be > when you consider how important > your data is to you. > Your ZPool(s) could get really screwed up if > you're getting checksumming > errors. > > A cronjob to scrub the system isn't a bad > idea, I guess you'd have to make > sure that nothing is going to try and use the > system during the scrubbing > process though. > > -> Jake > > > -> Jake > > > On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:24 PM, > wrote: > ? ? ? This is a follow-up to my ZFS woes from > a month or so ago. > > ? ? ? Funny thing. When that machine had > 16gigs of RAM + 16gigs of > ? ? ? swap, it was using 15gig of RAM and not > touching swap at all, > ? ? ? and ZFS performace was horrible. > > ? ? ? So I threw another 16gigs of RAM in > there. > > ? ? ? Now it uses 20gigs of RAM (still not > touching swap, obviously) > ? ? ? and ZFS performance is fine. > > ? ? ? Now, I am seeing occasional checksum > errors. I stress-tested the > ? ? ? heck out of the thing for a week or so > (filled up the > ? ? ? filesystem, then deleted most the junk I > used for that, etc) and > ? ? ? when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. > I'm assuming that since > ? ? ? I am running multiple redundancies that > that's not a huge > ? ? ? problem. Is this correct? Should I > cronjob a scrub once a month? > > ? ? ? I'm pretty gald I didn't need to move > away from ZFS... > > ? ? ? -- > ? ? ? > _______________________________________________ > ? ? ? TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > ? ? ? tclug-list at mn-linux.org > ? ? ? > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From tclug at freakzilla.com Tue Mar 11 18:19:45 2014 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 18:19:45 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS II: ZFS Harder In-Reply-To: <531F7B13.1070706@my.hennepintech.edu> References: <531F7B13.1070706@my.hennepintech.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Andrew Berg wrote: > If you keep getting checksum errors, Like I said, extremely rare and far between. On my original setup I was getting more of them (but even then, 1-2 a day, maybe) but once I redid the array as two raidz1 with ashift=12 that went to one a month maybe. it foudn 12 last scrub, but that was after I was rsyncinc crazy amounts of data onto the thing and then deleting it for a week, just to make sure performance didn't take a hit. From tclug at freakzilla.com Tue Mar 11 18:21:24 2014 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 18:21:24 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS II: ZFS Harder In-Reply-To: <531F8824.4020009@my.hennepintech.edu> References: <531F7B13.1070706@my.hennepintech.edu> <20140311214752.GG603@real-time.com> <531F8824.4020009@my.hennepintech.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Andrew Berg wrote: > On 2014.03.11 16:47, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: >> Perhaps we're seeing ZFS actually catching errors that might have >> gone unnoticed with other arrangements? > This is very likely the case. With most other filesystems, you'll likely just make the bad blocks redundant in your RAID array. Yeah, as long as ZFS is teling me "Hey, I recovered from X checksum errors", I don't think it's a problem. Unless X is larger than, I dunno, 30-50 a day. From lkateley at kateley.com Tue Mar 11 18:40:46 2014 From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 18:40:46 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS II: ZFS Harder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <531F9EFE.1050306@kateley.com> Yea it's binary.. Only zfs can read it.. The cool thing is that if you use another server to read the pool, it will be able to build a new cache file for it.. lk On 3/11/14, 6:08 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: > Finally, the expert (: > > Yeah, I have an /etc/zpool/zpool.cache, but it seems to be in a > (mostly) binary format rather than an editable text file. > > I think last time I rebooted it came up read-write, so maybe that... > resolved itself... which is cool but I wish I had a bit more info on > what the heck was going on! > > On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Linda Kateley wrote: > >> So yes zfs caches everything it can in the arc. Most distros have an >> arc max setting or some tunables for arc management. One of the >> easiest is setting primary-cache=metadata, that will tell zfs to only >> cache metadata. >> >> On Solaris there is file in /etc/zfs called zpool.cache. It functions >> similarily to the xxtab files in that if it exists it will be read in >> at boot and contains all device and filesystem info, but it differs >> in that if it doesn't exist it will be built with info from info on >> disks. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Mar 11, 2014, at 3:09 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: >>> >>> That's why I was asking (: Someone wake Linda up! >>> >>>> On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Jake Vath wrote: >>>> >>>> Call me stupid, but I forgot we were talking about ZFS on Linux... >>>> you're >>>> right. No fstab and no vfstab. >>>> Sorry about that. >>>> -> Jake >>>> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Jeremy MountainJohnson >>>> wrote: >>>> Not sure on the distro you have, but with ZFSonLinux you don't >>>> use fstab. For example, in Arch there is a service to handle >>>> this if enabled at boot (part of the zfs package). The file >>>> system mount point is configured with zfs user space tools, or >>>> defaults to what you set originally when you created the volume. >>>> Also, curious on the ram problems. Arch, the distro I use, is tweaked >>>> to be heavy on caching to RAM. So, often times when I am working with >>>> extensive I/O and large files, 90% of memory will be dedicated to >>>> caching in RAM and never touch swap (ext4, sw raid1). If I need that >>>> cached RAM, it diverts it out of the cache automatically. The free >>>> command shows how RAM is allocated. I'm no zfs expert, but perhaps zfs >>>> is caching like crazy to RAM, although now that you're stable with >>>> more RAM, this kinda debunks that. >>>> -- >>>> Jeremy MountainJohnson >>>> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com >>>> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:42 PM, wrote: >>>> Course I'm not using ECC RAM. This is a home system (: >>>> >>>> The data is... well, be nice if it didn't get corrupted, >>>> but if a video file gets a small glitch in it, it's not a >>>> huge deal. I can always rerip one disc if I need to. I >>>> also figured that's why I have two smaller raidz1 (which >>>> is equivalent to raid5, right?) pools - it should be able >>>> to fix the occasional checksum error. >>>> >>>> I've not seen any crop up on this setup until that scrub, >>>> which was after I copied and erased about 8TB a couple of >>>> times. So not super worried. >>>> >>>> I can't really not use the filesystem during a scrub, >>>> since a scrub takes over 24 hours. I could restrict it to >>>> read-only. >>>> >>>> Hey, that reminds me, for some reason the thing mounts as >>>> read-only when I reboot. And since it's not in fstab I >>>> don't know where to fix that... anyone?... >>>> >>>> On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Jake Vath wrote: >>>> >>>> Now, I am seeing occasional checksum >>>> errors. I stress-tested the >>>> heck out of the thing for a week or so >>>> (filled up the >>>> filesystem, then deleted most the junk I >>>> used for that, etc) and >>>> when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. >>>> I'm assuming that since >>>> I am running multiple redundancies that >>>> that's not a huge >>>> problem. Is this correct? Should I >>>> cronjob a scrub once a month? >>>> >>>> Are you using ECC RAM? >>>> If you're not, then you'll see some >>>> checksumming/parity calculation errors. >>>> Is this a huge problem? I guess it could be >>>> when you consider how important >>>> your data is to you. >>>> Your ZPool(s) could get really screwed up if >>>> you're getting checksumming >>>> errors. >>>> >>>> A cronjob to scrub the system isn't a bad >>>> idea, I guess you'd have to make >>>> sure that nothing is going to try and use the >>>> system during the scrubbing >>>> process though. >>>> >>>> -> Jake >>>> >>>> -> Jake >>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:24 PM, >>>> wrote: >>>> This is a follow-up to my ZFS woes from >>>> a month or so ago. >>>> >>>> Funny thing. When that machine had >>>> 16gigs of RAM + 16gigs of >>>> swap, it was using 15gig of RAM and not >>>> touching swap at all, >>>> and ZFS performace was horrible. >>>> >>>> So I threw another 16gigs of RAM in >>>> there. >>>> >>>> Now it uses 20gigs of RAM (still not >>>> touching swap, obviously) >>>> and ZFS performance is fine. >>>> >>>> Now, I am seeing occasional checksum >>>> errors. I stress-tested the >>>> heck out of the thing for a week or so >>>> (filled up the >>>> filesystem, then deleted most the junk I >>>> used for that, etc) and >>>> when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. >>>> I'm assuming that since >>>> I am running multiple redundancies that >>>> that's not a huge >>>> problem. Is this correct? Should I >>>> cronjob a scrub once a month? >>>> >>>> I'm pretty gald I didn't need to move >>>> away from ZFS... >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. >>>> Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at freakzilla.com Tue Mar 11 19:07:52 2014 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 19:07:52 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS II: ZFS Harder In-Reply-To: <531F9EFE.1050306@kateley.com> References: <531F9EFE.1050306@kateley.com> Message-ID: That is cool, and I might end up doing that with this pool some day. But is there somewhere where it specifies that the filesystem should be mounted read-only? On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Linda Kateley wrote: > Yea it's binary.. Only zfs can read it.. > > The cool thing is that if you use another server to read the pool, it will be > able to build a new cache file for it.. > > lk > > > On 3/11/14, 6:08 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: >> Finally, the expert (: >> >> Yeah, I have an /etc/zpool/zpool.cache, but it seems to be in a (mostly) >> binary format rather than an editable text file. >> >> I think last time I rebooted it came up read-write, so maybe that... >> resolved itself... which is cool but I wish I had a bit more info on what >> the heck was going on! >> >> On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Linda Kateley wrote: >> >>> So yes zfs caches everything it can in the arc. Most distros have an arc >>> max setting or some tunables for arc management. One of the easiest is >>> setting primary-cache=metadata, that will tell zfs to only cache metadata. >>> >>> On Solaris there is file in /etc/zfs called zpool.cache. It functions >>> similarily to the xxtab files in that if it exists it will be read in at >>> boot and contains all device and filesystem info, but it differs in that >>> if it doesn't exist it will be built with info from info on disks. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Mar 11, 2014, at 3:09 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: >>>> >>>> That's why I was asking (: Someone wake Linda up! >>>> >>>>> On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Jake Vath wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Call me stupid, but I forgot we were talking about ZFS on Linux... >>>>> you're >>>>> right. No fstab and no vfstab. >>>>> Sorry about that. >>>>> -> Jake >>>>> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Jeremy MountainJohnson >>>>> wrote: >>>>> Not sure on the distro you have, but with ZFSonLinux you don't >>>>> use fstab. For example, in Arch there is a service to handle >>>>> this if enabled at boot (part of the zfs package). The file >>>>> system mount point is configured with zfs user space tools, or >>>>> defaults to what you set originally when you created the volume. >>>>> Also, curious on the ram problems. Arch, the distro I use, is tweaked >>>>> to be heavy on caching to RAM. So, often times when I am working with >>>>> extensive I/O and large files, 90% of memory will be dedicated to >>>>> caching in RAM and never touch swap (ext4, sw raid1). If I need that >>>>> cached RAM, it diverts it out of the cache automatically. The free >>>>> command shows how RAM is allocated. I'm no zfs expert, but perhaps zfs >>>>> is caching like crazy to RAM, although now that you're stable with >>>>> more RAM, this kinda debunks that. >>>>> -- >>>>> Jeremy MountainJohnson >>>>> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com >>>>> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:42 PM, wrote: >>>>> Course I'm not using ECC RAM. This is a home system (: >>>>> >>>>> The data is... well, be nice if it didn't get corrupted, >>>>> but if a video file gets a small glitch in it, it's not a >>>>> huge deal. I can always rerip one disc if I need to. I >>>>> also figured that's why I have two smaller raidz1 (which >>>>> is equivalent to raid5, right?) pools - it should be able >>>>> to fix the occasional checksum error. >>>>> >>>>> I've not seen any crop up on this setup until that scrub, >>>>> which was after I copied and erased about 8TB a couple of >>>>> times. So not super worried. >>>>> >>>>> I can't really not use the filesystem during a scrub, >>>>> since a scrub takes over 24 hours. I could restrict it to >>>>> read-only. >>>>> >>>>> Hey, that reminds me, for some reason the thing mounts as >>>>> read-only when I reboot. And since it's not in fstab I >>>>> don't know where to fix that... anyone?... >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Jake Vath wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Now, I am seeing occasional checksum >>>>> errors. I stress-tested the >>>>> heck out of the thing for a week or so >>>>> (filled up the >>>>> filesystem, then deleted most the junk I >>>>> used for that, etc) and >>>>> when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. >>>>> I'm assuming that since >>>>> I am running multiple redundancies that >>>>> that's not a huge >>>>> problem. Is this correct? Should I >>>>> cronjob a scrub once a month? >>>>> >>>>> Are you using ECC RAM? >>>>> If you're not, then you'll see some >>>>> checksumming/parity calculation errors. >>>>> Is this a huge problem? I guess it could be >>>>> when you consider how important >>>>> your data is to you. >>>>> Your ZPool(s) could get really screwed up if >>>>> you're getting checksumming >>>>> errors. >>>>> >>>>> A cronjob to scrub the system isn't a bad >>>>> idea, I guess you'd have to make >>>>> sure that nothing is going to try and use the >>>>> system during the scrubbing >>>>> process though. >>>>> >>>>> -> Jake >>>>> >>>>> -> Jake >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:24 PM, >>>>> wrote: >>>>> This is a follow-up to my ZFS woes from >>>>> a month or so ago. >>>>> >>>>> Funny thing. When that machine had >>>>> 16gigs of RAM + 16gigs of >>>>> swap, it was using 15gig of RAM and not >>>>> touching swap at all, >>>>> and ZFS performace was horrible. >>>>> >>>>> So I threw another 16gigs of RAM in >>>>> there. >>>>> >>>>> Now it uses 20gigs of RAM (still not >>>>> touching swap, obviously) >>>>> and ZFS performance is fine. >>>>> >>>>> Now, I am seeing occasional checksum >>>>> errors. I stress-tested the >>>>> heck out of the thing for a week or so >>>>> (filled up the >>>>> filesystem, then deleted most the junk I >>>>> used for that, etc) and >>>>> when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. >>>>> I'm assuming that since >>>>> I am running multiple redundancies that >>>>> that's not a huge >>>>> problem. Is this correct? Should I >>>>> cronjob a scrub once a month? >>>>> >>>>> I'm pretty gald I didn't need to move >>>>> away from ZFS... >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. >>>>> Paul, Minnesota >>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>> >>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From lkateley at kateley.com Tue Mar 11 20:16:14 2014 From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 20:16:14 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS II: ZFS Harder In-Reply-To: References: <531F9EFE.1050306@kateley.com> Message-ID: You put that in as an option to zfs #zfs set readonly=on filesystemname On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 7:07 PM, wrote: > That is cool, and I might end up doing that with this pool some day. > > But is there somewhere where it specifies that the filesystem should be > mounted read-only? > > > > On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Linda Kateley wrote: > > Yea it's binary.. Only zfs can read it.. >> >> The cool thing is that if you use another server to read the pool, it >> will be able to build a new cache file for it.. >> >> lk >> >> >> On 3/11/14, 6:08 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: >> >>> Finally, the expert (: >>> >>> Yeah, I have an /etc/zpool/zpool.cache, but it seems to be in a (mostly) >>> binary format rather than an editable text file. >>> >>> I think last time I rebooted it came up read-write, so maybe that... >>> resolved itself... which is cool but I wish I had a bit more info on what >>> the heck was going on! >>> >>> On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Linda Kateley wrote: >>> >>> So yes zfs caches everything it can in the arc. Most distros have an >>>> arc max setting or some tunables for arc management. One of the easiest is >>>> setting primary-cache=metadata, that will tell zfs to only cache metadata. >>>> >>>> On Solaris there is file in /etc/zfs called zpool.cache. It functions >>>> similarily to the xxtab files in that if it exists it will be read in at >>>> boot and contains all device and filesystem info, but it differs in that if >>>> it doesn't exist it will be built with info from info on disks. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Mar 11, 2014, at 3:09 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>> That's why I was asking (: Someone wake Linda up! >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Jake Vath wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Call me stupid, but I forgot we were talking about ZFS on Linux... >>>>>> you're >>>>>> right. No fstab and no vfstab. >>>>>> Sorry about that. >>>>>> -> Jake >>>>>> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Jeremy MountainJohnson >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Not sure on the distro you have, but with ZFSonLinux you don't >>>>>> use fstab. For example, in Arch there is a service to handle >>>>>> this if enabled at boot (part of the zfs package). The file >>>>>> system mount point is configured with zfs user space tools, or >>>>>> defaults to what you set originally when you created the volume. >>>>>> Also, curious on the ram problems. Arch, the distro I use, is tweaked >>>>>> to be heavy on caching to RAM. So, often times when I am working with >>>>>> extensive I/O and large files, 90% of memory will be dedicated to >>>>>> caching in RAM and never touch swap (ext4, sw raid1). If I need that >>>>>> cached RAM, it diverts it out of the cache automatically. The free >>>>>> command shows how RAM is allocated. I'm no zfs expert, but perhaps zfs >>>>>> is caching like crazy to RAM, although now that you're stable with >>>>>> more RAM, this kinda debunks that. >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Jeremy MountainJohnson >>>>>> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com >>>>>> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:42 PM, wrote: >>>>>> Course I'm not using ECC RAM. This is a home system (: >>>>>> >>>>>> The data is... well, be nice if it didn't get corrupted, >>>>>> but if a video file gets a small glitch in it, it's not a >>>>>> huge deal. I can always rerip one disc if I need to. I >>>>>> also figured that's why I have two smaller raidz1 (which >>>>>> is equivalent to raid5, right?) pools - it should be able >>>>>> to fix the occasional checksum error. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've not seen any crop up on this setup until that scrub, >>>>>> which was after I copied and erased about 8TB a couple of >>>>>> times. So not super worried. >>>>>> >>>>>> I can't really not use the filesystem during a scrub, >>>>>> since a scrub takes over 24 hours. I could restrict it to >>>>>> read-only. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hey, that reminds me, for some reason the thing mounts as >>>>>> read-only when I reboot. And since it's not in fstab I >>>>>> don't know where to fix that... anyone?... >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Jake Vath wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Now, I am seeing occasional checksum >>>>>> errors. I stress-tested the >>>>>> heck out of the thing for a week or so >>>>>> (filled up the >>>>>> filesystem, then deleted most the junk I >>>>>> used for that, etc) and >>>>>> when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. >>>>>> I'm assuming that since >>>>>> I am running multiple redundancies that >>>>>> that's not a huge >>>>>> problem. Is this correct? Should I >>>>>> cronjob a scrub once a month? >>>>>> >>>>>> Are you using ECC RAM? >>>>>> If you're not, then you'll see some >>>>>> checksumming/parity calculation errors. >>>>>> Is this a huge problem? I guess it could be >>>>>> when you consider how important >>>>>> your data is to you. >>>>>> Your ZPool(s) could get really screwed up if >>>>>> you're getting checksumming >>>>>> errors. >>>>>> >>>>>> A cronjob to scrub the system isn't a bad >>>>>> idea, I guess you'd have to make >>>>>> sure that nothing is going to try and use the >>>>>> system during the scrubbing >>>>>> process though. >>>>>> >>>>>> -> Jake >>>>>> >>>>>> -> Jake >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:24 PM, >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> This is a follow-up to my ZFS woes from >>>>>> a month or so ago. >>>>>> >>>>>> Funny thing. When that machine had >>>>>> 16gigs of RAM + 16gigs of >>>>>> swap, it was using 15gig of RAM and not >>>>>> touching swap at all, >>>>>> and ZFS performace was horrible. >>>>>> >>>>>> So I threw another 16gigs of RAM in >>>>>> there. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now it uses 20gigs of RAM (still not >>>>>> touching swap, obviously) >>>>>> and ZFS performance is fine. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now, I am seeing occasional checksum >>>>>> errors. I stress-tested the >>>>>> heck out of the thing for a week or so >>>>>> (filled up the >>>>>> filesystem, then deleted most the junk I >>>>>> used for that, etc) and >>>>>> when I ran a scrub it found 12 of them. >>>>>> I'm assuming that since >>>>>> I am running multiple redundancies that >>>>>> that's not a huge >>>>>> problem. Is this correct? Should I >>>>>> cronjob a scrub once a month? >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm pretty gald I didn't need to move >>>>>> away from ZFS... >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. >>>>>> Paul, Minnesota >>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>> >>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Tue Mar 11 21:37:16 2014 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 21:37:16 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS II: ZFS Harder In-Reply-To: References: <531F9EFE.1050306@kateley.com> Message-ID: I'm trying to make it not be read-only, but I went: sterling at chimera:/home/sterling> sudo zfs get readonly NAME PROPERTY VALUE SOURCE media readonly off default So I think it's OK now. And if it ever starts happening again, I'll know what to look at (: On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Linda Kateley wrote: > You put that in as an option to zfs > > #zfs set readonly=on filesystemname > > > On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 7:07 PM, wrote: > That is cool, and I might end up doing that with this pool some > day. > > But is there somewhere where it specifies that the filesystem > should be mounted read-only? > > > On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Linda Kateley wrote: > > Yea it's binary.. Only zfs can read it.. > > The cool thing is that if you use another server to > read the pool, it will be able to build a new cache > file for it.. > > lk > > > On 3/11/14, 6:08 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: > Finally, the expert (: > > Yeah, I have an /etc/zpool/zpool.cache, > but it seems to be in a (mostly) binary > format rather than an editable text > file. > > I think last time I rebooted it came up > read-write, so maybe that... resolved > itself... which is cool but I wish I had > a bit more info on what the heck was > going on! > > On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Linda Kateley > wrote: > > So yes zfs caches everything > it can in the arc. Most > distros have an arc max > setting or some tunables for > arc management. One of the > easiest is setting > primary-cache=metadata, that > will tell zfs to only cache > metadata. > > On Solaris there is file in > /etc/zfs called zpool.cache. > It functions similarily to > the xxtab files in that if > it exists it will be read in > at boot and contains all > device and filesystem info, > but it differs in that if it > doesn't exist it will be > built with info from info on > disks. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Mar 11, 2014, > at 3:09 PM, > tclug at freakzilla.com > wrote: > > That's why I was > asking (: > Someone wake > Linda up! > > On > Tue, > 11 > Mar > 2014, > Jake > Vath > wrote: > > Call > me > stupid, > but > I > forgot > we > were > talking > about > ZFS > on > Linux... > you're > right. > No > fstab > and > no > vfstab. > Sorry > about > that. > -> > Jake > On > Tue, > Mar > 11, > 2014 > at > 3:01 > PM, > Jeremy > MountainJohnson > > wrote: > ? ? > ?Not > sure > on > the > distro > you > have, > but > with > ZFSonLinux > you > don't > ? ? > ?use > fstab. > For > example, > in > Arch > there > is a > service > to > handle > ? ? > ?this > if > enabled > at > boot > (part > of > the > zfs > package). > The > file > ? ? > ?system > mount > point > is > configured > with > zfs > user > space > tools, > or > ? ? > ?defaults > to > what > you > set > originally > when > you > created > the > volume. > Also, > curious > on > the > ram > problems. > Arch, > the > distro > I > use, > is > tweaked > to > be > heavy > on > caching > to > RAM. > So, > often > times > when > I am > working > with > extensive > I/O > and > large > files, > 90% > of > memory > will > be > dedicated > to > caching > in > RAM > and > never > touch > swap > (ext4, > sw > raid1). > If I > need > that > cached > RAM, > it > diverts > it > out > of > the > cache > automatically. > The > free > command > shows > how > RAM > is > allocated. > I'm > no > zfs > expert, > but > perhaps > zfs > is > caching > like > crazy > to > RAM, > although > now > that > you're > stable > with > more > RAM, > this > kinda > debunks > that. > -- > Jeremy > MountainJohnson > Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com > On > Tue, > Mar > 11, > 2014 > at > 2:42 > PM, > > wrote: > ? ? > ?Course > I'm > not > using > ECC > RAM. > This > is a > home > system > (: > > ? ? > ?The > data > is... > well, > be > nice > if > it > didn't > get > corrupted, > ? ? > ?but > if a > video > file > gets > a > small > glitch > in > it, > it's > not > a > ? ? > ?huge > deal. > I > can > always > rerip > one > disc > if I > need > to. > I > ? ? > ?also > figured > that's > why > I > have > two > smaller > raidz1 > (which > ? ? > ?is > equivalent > to > raid5, > right?) > pools > - it > should > be > able > ? ? > ?to > fix > the > occasional > checksum > error. > > ? ? > ?I've > not > seen > any > crop > up > on > this > setup > until > that > scrub, > ? ? > ?which > was > after > I > copied > and > erased > about > 8TB > a > couple > of > ? ? > ?times. > So > not > super > worried. > > ? ? > ?I > can't > really > not > use > the > filesystem > during > a > scrub, > ? ? > ?since > a > scrub > takes > over > 24 > hours. > I > could > restrict > it > to > ? ? > ?read-only. > > ? ? > ?Hey, > that > reminds > me, > for > some > reason > the > thing > mounts > as > ? ? > ?read-only > when > I > reboot. > And > since > it's > not > in > fstab > I > ? ? > ?don't > know > where > to > fix > that... > anyone?... > > ? ? > ?On > Tue, > 11 > Mar > 2014, > Jake > Vath > wrote: > > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ?Now, > I am > seeing > occasional > checksum > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?errors. > I > stress-tested > the > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ?heck > out > of > the > thing > for > a > week > or > so > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?(filled > up > the > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ?filesystem, > then > deleted > most > the > junk > I > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?used > for > that, > etc) > and > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ?when > I > ran > a > scrub > it > found > 12 > of > them. > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?I'm > assuming > that > since > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ?I > am > running > multiple > redundancies > that > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?that's > not > a > huge > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ?problem. > Is > this > correct? > Should > I > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?cronjob > a > scrub > once > a > month? > > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?Are > you > using > ECC > RAM? > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?If > you're > not, > then > you'll > see > some > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?checksumming/parity > calculation > errors. > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?Is > this > a > huge > problem? > I > guess > it > could > be > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?when > you > consider > how > important > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?your > data > is > to > you. > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?Your > ZPool(s) > could > get > really > screwed > up > if > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?you're > getting > checksumming > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?errors. > > ? ? > ? ? > ? ?A > cronjob > to > scrub > the > system > isn't > a > bad > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?idea, > I > guess > you'd > have > to > make > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?sure > that > nothing > is > going > to > try > and > use > the > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?system > during > the > scrubbing > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?process > though. > > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?-> > Jake > > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?-> > Jake > > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?On > Tue, > Mar > 11, > 2014 > at > 2:24 > PM, > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ? > wrote: > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ?This > is a > follow-up > to > my > ZFS > woes > from > ? ? > ? ? > ? ?a > month > or > so > ago. > > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ?Funny > thing. > When > that > machine > had > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?16gigs > of > RAM > + > 16gigs > of > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ?swap, > it > was > using > 15gig > of > RAM > and > not > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?touching > swap > at > all, > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ?and > ZFS > performace > was > horrible. > > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ?So > I > threw > another > 16gigs > of > RAM > in > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?there. > > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ?Now > it > uses > 20gigs > of > RAM > (still > not > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?touching > swap, > obviously) > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ?and > ZFS > performance > is > fine. > > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ?Now, > I am > seeing > occasional > checksum > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?errors. > I > stress-tested > the > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ?heck > out > of > the > thing > for > a > week > or > so > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?(filled > up > the > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ?filesystem, > then > deleted > most > the > junk > I > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?used > for > that, > etc) > and > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ?when > I > ran > a > scrub > it > found > 12 > of > them. > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?I'm > assuming > that > since > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ?I > am > running > multiple > redundancies > that > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?that's > not > a > huge > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ?problem. > Is > this > correct? > Should > I > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?cronjob > a > scrub > once > a > month? > > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ?I'm > pretty > gald > I > didn't > need > to > move > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?away > from > ZFS... > > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ?-- > > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?_______________________________________________ > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ?TCLUG > Mailing > List > - > Minneapolis/St. > ? ? > ? ? > ? > ?Paul, > Minnesota > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? ? > ?tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > ? ? > ?_______________________________________________ > ? ? > ?TCLUG > Mailing > List > - > Minneapolis/St. > Paul, > Minnesota > ? ? > ?tclug-list at mn-linux.org > ? ? > ?http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG > Mailing > List > - > Minneapolis/St. > Paul, > Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing > List - > Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > From aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu Tue Mar 11 21:42:25 2014 From: aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu (Andrew Berg) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 21:42:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS II: ZFS Harder In-Reply-To: References: <531F7B13.1070706@my.hennepintech.edu> Message-ID: <531FC991.6050104@my.hennepintech.edu> On 2014.03.11 18:19, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: > On Tue, 11 Mar 2014, Andrew Berg wrote: > >> If you keep getting checksum errors, > > Like I said, extremely rare and far between. On my original setup I was > getting more of them (but even then, 1-2 a day, maybe) but once I redid > the array as two raidz1 with ashift=12 that went to one a month maybe. it > foudn 12 last scrub, but that was after I was rsyncinc crazy amounts of > data onto the thing and then deleting it for a week, just to make sure > performance didn't take a hit. Likely just a lower quality disk with more bad sectors then. Don't worry, though - ZFS loves cheap disks! I'd still recommend scrubbing often so that if you have bad sectors in just the right places and you lose a file, you'll know sooner. From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Tue Mar 11 22:12:08 2014 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 03:12:08 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 109, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > > http://www.meetingcpp.com/index.php/newsreader/items/c-user-group-meetings-in-january-2014.html > > Is there interest in a C++ users group? > . > Maybe a quarterly meeting? > There's a conference room where I have an office in Roseville that seats > about 12 -15. I'm willing to provide that and some snacks, but would > want someone else to plan a meeting. > > The list is growing: http://isocpp.org/blog/2014/03/c-user-group-meetings-in-march But there's nothing in this area. It's not practical to go to Denver or Chicago to talk about C++. How about a yearly or semiannual meeting? My offer to host still stands. Reminder: I do not respond to top-posted replies. -- Brian Ebenezer Enterprises - Heavenly code. http://webEbenezer.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From samael.anon at gmail.com Wed Mar 12 18:02:06 2014 From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 18:02:06 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 109, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: He is a bottom post only kinda guy. On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 10:12 PM, Brian Wood wrote: > >> http://www.meetingcpp.com/index.php/newsreader/items/c-user-group-meetings-in-january-2014.html >> >> Is there interest in a C++ users group? >> . >> Maybe a quarterly meeting? >> There's a conference room where I have an office in Roseville that seats >> about 12 -15. I'm willing to provide that and some snacks, but would >> want someone else to plan a meeting. >> >> > The list is growing: > http://isocpp.org/blog/2014/03/c-user-group-meetings-in-march > > But there's nothing in this area. It's not practical to > go to Denver or Chicago to talk about C++. How about a > yearly or semiannual meeting? My offer to host still stands. > > Reminder: I do not respond to top-posted replies. > > -- > Brian > Ebenezer Enterprises - Heavenly code. > http://webEbenezer.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Wed Mar 12 21:37:18 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 21:37:18 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 109, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Must be tough to fight Google... On Mar 12, 2014 6:03 PM, "Samael" wrote: > He is a bottom post only kinda guy. > > > On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 10:12 PM, Brian Wood wrote: > >> >>> http://www.meetingcpp.com/index.php/newsreader/items/c-user-group-meetings-in-january-2014.html >>> >>> Is there interest in a C++ users group? >>> . >>> Maybe a quarterly meeting? >>> There's a conference room where I have an office in Roseville that seats >>> about 12 -15. I'm willing to provide that and some snacks, but would >>> want someone else to plan a meeting. >>> >>> >> The list is growing: >> http://isocpp.org/blog/2014/03/c-user-group-meetings-in-march >> >> But there's nothing in this area. It's not practical to >> go to Denver or Chicago to talk about C++. How about a >> yearly or semiannual meeting? My offer to host still stands. >> >> Reminder: I do not respond to top-posted replies. >> >> -- >> Brian >> Ebenezer Enterprises - Heavenly code. >> http://webEbenezer.net >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Wed Mar 12 21:38:44 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 21:38:44 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 109, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's easy if you don't drink koolaid --- says the apple owner. > On Mar 12, 2014, at 21:37, Jeff Chapin wrote: > > Must be tough to fight Google... > >> On Mar 12, 2014 6:03 PM, "Samael" wrote: >> He is a bottom post only kinda guy. >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 10:12 PM, Brian Wood wrote: >>>> http://www.meetingcpp.com/index.php/newsreader/items/c-user-group-meetings-in-january-2014.html >>>> >>>> Is there interest in a C++ users group? >>>> . >>>> Maybe a quarterly meeting? >>>> There's a conference room where I have an office in Roseville that seats >>>> about 12 -15. I'm willing to provide that and some snacks, but would >>>> want someone else to plan a meeting. >>>> >>> >>> The list is growing: >>> http://isocpp.org/blog/2014/03/c-user-group-meetings-in-march >>> >>> But there's nothing in this area. It's not practical to >>> go to Denver or Chicago to talk about C++. How about a >>> yearly or semiannual meeting? My offer to host still stands. >>> >>> Reminder: I do not respond to top-posted replies. >>> >>> -- >>> Brian >>> Ebenezer Enterprises - Heavenly code. >>> http://webEbenezer.net >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Wed Mar 12 21:42:44 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 21:42:44 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 109, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Even if you don't drink it... Gmail seems to default to top posting... On Mar 12, 2014 9:39 PM, "Ryan Coleman" wrote: > It's easy if you don't drink koolaid --- says the apple owner. > > > On Mar 12, 2014, at 21:37, Jeff Chapin wrote: > > Must be tough to fight Google... > On Mar 12, 2014 6:03 PM, "Samael" wrote: > >> He is a bottom post only kinda guy. >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 10:12 PM, Brian Wood wrote: >> >>> >>>> http://www.meetingcpp.com/index.php/newsreader/items/c-user-group-meetings-in-january-2014.html >>>> >>>> Is there interest in a C++ users group? >>>> . >>>> Maybe a quarterly meeting? >>>> There's a conference room where I have an office in Roseville that seats >>>> about 12 -15. I'm willing to provide that and some snacks, but would >>>> want someone else to plan a meeting. >>>> >>>> >>> The list is growing: >>> http://isocpp.org/blog/2014/03/c-user-group-meetings-in-march >>> >>> But there's nothing in this area. It's not practical to >>> go to Denver or Chicago to talk about C++. How about a >>> yearly or semiannual meeting? My offer to host still stands. >>> >>> Reminder: I do not respond to top-posted replies. >>> >>> -- >>> Brian >>> Ebenezer Enterprises - Heavenly code. >>> http://webEbenezer.net >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Wed Mar 12 21:44:15 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 21:44:15 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 109, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: So does Apple Mail. But not Thunderbird. On Mar 12, 2014, at 9:42 PM, Jeff Chapin wrote: > Even if you don't drink it... Gmail seems to default to top posting... > > On Mar 12, 2014 9:39 PM, "Ryan Coleman" wrote: > It's easy if you don't drink koolaid --- says the apple owner. > > > On Mar 12, 2014, at 21:37, Jeff Chapin wrote: > >> Must be tough to fight Google... >> >> On Mar 12, 2014 6:03 PM, "Samael" wrote: >> He is a bottom post only kinda guy. >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 10:12 PM, Brian Wood wrote: >> http://www.meetingcpp.com/index.php/newsreader/items/c-user-group-meetings-in-january-2014.html >> >> Is there interest in a C++ users group? >> . >> Maybe a quarterly meeting? >> There's a conference room where I have an office in Roseville that seats >> about 12 -15. I'm willing to provide that and some snacks, but would >> want someone else to plan a meeting. >> >> >> The list is growing: >> http://isocpp.org/blog/2014/03/c-user-group-meetings-in-march >> >> But there's nothing in this area. It's not practical to >> go to Denver or Chicago to talk about C++. How about a >> yearly or semiannual meeting? My offer to host still stands. >> >> Reminder: I do not respond to top-posted replies. >> >> -- >> Brian >> Ebenezer Enterprises - Heavenly code. >> http://webEbenezer.net >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Wed Mar 12 21:47:51 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 21:47:51 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 109, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That seems to be a lot of people defaulting to top posting. I don't think I have the willpower to try and ignore them all... On Mar 12, 2014 9:44 PM, "Ryan Coleman" wrote: > So does Apple Mail. But not Thunderbird. > > On Mar 12, 2014, at 9:42 PM, Jeff Chapin wrote: > > Even if you don't drink it... Gmail seems to default to top posting... > On Mar 12, 2014 9:39 PM, "Ryan Coleman" wrote: > >> It's easy if you don't drink koolaid --- says the apple owner. >> >> >> On Mar 12, 2014, at 21:37, Jeff Chapin wrote: >> >> Must be tough to fight Google... >> On Mar 12, 2014 6:03 PM, "Samael" wrote: >> >>> He is a bottom post only kinda guy. >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 10:12 PM, Brian Wood wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>> http://www.meetingcpp.com/index.php/newsreader/items/c-user-group-meetings-in-january-2014.html >>>>> >>>>> Is there interest in a C++ users group? >>>>> . >>>>> Maybe a quarterly meeting? >>>>> There's a conference room where I have an office in Roseville that >>>>> seats >>>>> about 12 -15. I'm willing to provide that and some snacks, but would >>>>> want someone else to plan a meeting. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> The list is growing: >>>> http://isocpp.org/blog/2014/03/c-user-group-meetings-in-march >>>> >>>> But there's nothing in this area. It's not practical to >>>> go to Denver or Chicago to talk about C++. How about a >>>> yearly or semiannual meeting? My offer to host still stands. >>>> >>>> Reminder: I do not respond to top-posted replies. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Brian >>>> Ebenezer Enterprises - Heavenly code. >>>> http://webEbenezer.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Wed Mar 12 21:48:28 2014 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 21:48:28 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Reply Positioning Message-ID: Heck, I'm using [al]Pine, an ancient and very UNIX-y mail reader, and even it defaults to top-reply. The logic being you want to type out "Hi there," before you scroll down and start replying in-body. And THAT is the netiquette that was lost. You're not supposed to go all the way to the bottom and just start typing, you're supposed to go into the message, find the specific part you're commenting on, hit ENTER a couple times and start typing after that specific quoted text. I tried ot fight for inline replies back in the day, but as soon as we started letting our parents and siblings and other non-geeky people on the Internet... well, they outnumber us. Now if you reply in-line you have to actually go "Replies inline..." or people don't know what the heck you're doing. TL;DR: You're both wrong. On Wed, 12 Mar 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote: > So does Apple Mail. But not Thunderbird. > On Mar 12, 2014, at 9:42 PM, Jeff Chapin wrote: > > Even if you don't drink it... Gmail seems to default to top > posting... > > On Mar 12, 2014 9:39 PM, "Ryan Coleman" > wrote: > It's easy if you don't drink koolaid --- says the > apple owner.? > > > On Mar 12, 2014, at 21:37, Jeff Chapin > wrote: > > Must be tough to fight Google... > > On Mar 12, 2014 6:03 PM, "Samael" > wrote: > He is a bottom post only kinda guy. ? > > > On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 10:12 PM, Brian Wood > wrote: > http://www.meetingcpp.com/index.php/newsreader/items/c-user-group-meetings- > in-january-2014.html > > Is there interest in a C++ > users group? > . > Maybe a quarterly meeting? > There's a conference room > where I have an office in > Roseville that seats > about 12 -15. ?I'm willing > ?to provide that and some > snacks, but would > want someone else to plan a > meeting. > > > The list is growing: > http://isocpp.org/blog/2014/03/c-user-group-meetings-in-march > > But there's nothing in this area.? It's not > practical to > go to Denver or Chicago to talk about C++.? > How about a > yearly or semiannual meeting?? My offer to > host still stands. > > Reminder: I do not respond to top-posted > replies.?? > > -- > Brian > Ebenezer Enterprises - Heavenly code. > http://webEbenezer.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > From chapinjeff at gmail.com Wed Mar 12 21:53:31 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 21:53:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Reply Positioning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm fine with inline when you are commenting or replying to specific parts. In general I am a top poster -- I like to assume my correspondents don't need to re-read the full email chain every time, but should be able to scroll down if they need to. On Mar 12, 2014 9:49 PM, wrote: > Heck, I'm using [al]Pine, an ancient and very UNIX-y mail reader, and even > it defaults to top-reply. The logic being you want to type out "Hi there," > before you scroll down and start replying in-body. > > And THAT is the netiquette that was lost. You're not supposed to go all > the way to the bottom and just start typing, you're supposed to go into the > message, find the specific part you're commenting on, hit ENTER a couple > times and start typing after that specific quoted text. > > I tried ot fight for inline replies back in the day, but as soon as we > started letting our parents and siblings and other non-geeky people on the > Internet... well, they outnumber us. > > Now if you reply in-line you have to actually go "Replies inline..." or > people don't know what the heck you're doing. > > > TL;DR: You're both wrong. > > > On Wed, 12 Mar 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote: > > So does Apple Mail. But not Thunderbird. >> On Mar 12, 2014, at 9:42 PM, Jeff Chapin wrote: >> >> Even if you don't drink it... Gmail seems to default to top >> posting... >> >> On Mar 12, 2014 9:39 PM, "Ryan Coleman" >> wrote: >> It's easy if you don't drink koolaid --- says the >> apple owner. >> >> >> On Mar 12, 2014, at 21:37, Jeff Chapin >> wrote: >> >> Must be tough to fight Google... >> >> On Mar 12, 2014 6:03 PM, "Samael" >> wrote: >> He is a bottom post only kinda guy. >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 10:12 PM, Brian Wood >> wrote: >> http://www.meetingcpp.com/index.php/newsreader/items/c- >> user-group-meetings- >> in-january-2014.html >> >> Is there interest in a C++ >> users group? >> . >> Maybe a quarterly meeting? >> There's a conference room >> where I have an office in >> Roseville that seats >> about 12 -15. I'm willing >> to provide that and some >> snacks, but would >> want someone else to plan a >> meeting. >> >> >> The list is growing: >> http://isocpp.org/blog/2014/03/c-user-group-meetings-in-march >> >> But there's nothing in this area. It's not >> practical to >> go to Denver or Chicago to talk about C++. >> How about a >> yearly or semiannual meeting? My offer to >> host still stands. >> >> Reminder: I do not respond to top-posted >> replies. >> >> -- >> Brian >> Ebenezer Enterprises - Heavenly code. >> http://webEbenezer.net >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, >> Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Wed Mar 12 21:55:04 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 21:55:04 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Reply Positioning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7350216B-3BA4-4C28-A1F3-A24ABD85F2A8@me.com> Who said I was making a right-or-wrong statement? On Mar 12, 2014, at 9:48 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: > Heck, I'm using [al]Pine, an ancient and very UNIX-y mail reader, and even it defaults to top-reply. The logic being you want to type out "Hi there," before you scroll down and start replying in-body. > > And THAT is the netiquette that was lost. You're not supposed to go all the way to the bottom and just start typing, you're supposed to go into the message, find the specific part you're commenting on, hit ENTER a couple times and start typing after that specific quoted text. > > I tried ot fight for inline replies back in the day, but as soon as we started letting our parents and siblings and other non-geeky people on the Internet... well, they outnumber us. > > Now if you reply in-line you have to actually go "Replies inline..." or people don't know what the heck you're doing. > > > TL;DR: You're both wrong. > > > On Wed, 12 Mar 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote: > >> So does Apple Mail. But not Thunderbird. >> On Mar 12, 2014, at 9:42 PM, Jeff Chapin wrote: >> >> Even if you don't drink it... Gmail seems to default to top >> posting... >> >> On Mar 12, 2014 9:39 PM, "Ryan Coleman" >> wrote: >> It's easy if you don't drink koolaid --- says the >> apple owner. >> On Mar 12, 2014, at 21:37, Jeff Chapin >> wrote: >> >> Must be tough to fight Google... >> >> On Mar 12, 2014 6:03 PM, "Samael" >> wrote: >> He is a bottom post only kinda guy. >> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 10:12 PM, Brian Wood >> wrote: >> http://www.meetingcpp.com/index.php/newsreader/items/c-user-group-meetings- >> in-january-2014.html >> >> Is there interest in a C++ >> users group? >> . >> Maybe a quarterly meeting? >> There's a conference room >> where I have an office in >> Roseville that seats >> about 12 -15. I'm willing >> to provide that and some >> snacks, but would >> want someone else to plan a >> meeting. >> The list is growing: >> http://isocpp.org/blog/2014/03/c-user-group-meetings-in-march >> But there's nothing in this area. It's not >> practical to >> go to Denver or Chicago to talk about C++. >> How about a >> yearly or semiannual meeting? My offer to >> host still stands. >> Reminder: I do not respond to top-posted >> replies. >> -- >> Brian >> Ebenezer Enterprises - Heavenly code. >> http://webEbenezer.net >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, >> Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at freakzilla.com Wed Mar 12 22:00:11 2014 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 22:00:11 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Reply Positioning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Replies inline... On Wed, 12 Mar 2014, Jeff Chapin wrote: > I like to assume my correspondents don't need to re-read the full email > chain every time, Back In The Day(tm) we used to delete parts of the message that were no longer relevant. Back In The Day(tm) we also had 300baud modems and sending a 1K text file took forever. So you cut down wherever you could. Nowadays I could attach a video of my cat playing Fruit Ninja to this email and nobody would even notice that it took longer to get there. By the way, just in case this DOES get out of hand, I'm being somewhat tongue-in-cheek here. I actually wrote an article for an edition of Internet Magazine (which, ironically, was a print magazine) back in 1997 or something ranting about how "normal" people were ruining "our" internet, with their top-replies and their geocities websites with purple text on green background and the BLINK tag. And this was BEFORE Flash... so I like to occasionally put my Grumpy Old "I've Been Using The Internet Since The 80s" hat and tell people to get off my digital lawn. From tclug at freakzilla.com Wed Mar 12 22:00:46 2014 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 22:00:46 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Reply Positioning In-Reply-To: <7350216B-3BA4-4C28-A1F3-A24ABD85F2A8@me.com> References: <7350216B-3BA4-4C28-A1F3-A24ABD85F2A8@me.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Mar 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote: > Who said I was making a right-or-wrong statement? Get off my digital lawn! From ryanjcole at me.com Wed Mar 12 22:02:20 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 22:02:20 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Reply Positioning In-Reply-To: References: <7350216B-3BA4-4C28-A1F3-A24ABD85F2A8@me.com> Message-ID: <4C062E97-F7E0-458D-956C-18AF9CEDF2B0@me.com> Only if you stop throwing your leaves onto mine! I live all the way on the other side of the internet, dammit! :D On Mar 12, 2014, at 10:00 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: > On Wed, 12 Mar 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote: > >> Who said I was making a right-or-wrong statement? > > Get off my digital lawn! From chapinjeff at gmail.com Wed Mar 12 22:03:14 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 22:03:14 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Reply Positioning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For the record... I assumed you were poking fun, too. It must have been hard in the bad old days, when you needed to shave off every unneeded byte... On Mar 12, 2014 10:00 PM, wrote: > Replies inline... > > On Wed, 12 Mar 2014, Jeff Chapin wrote: > > I like to assume my correspondents don't need to re-read the full email >> chain every time, >> > > Back In The Day(tm) we used to delete parts of the message that were no > longer relevant. > > Back In The Day(tm) we also had 300baud modems and sending a 1K text file > took forever. So you cut down wherever you could. > > Nowadays I could attach a video of my cat playing Fruit Ninja to this > email and nobody would even notice that it took longer to get there. > > > > > By the way, just in case this DOES get out of hand, I'm being somewhat > tongue-in-cheek here. I actually wrote an article for an edition of > Internet Magazine (which, ironically, was a print magazine) back in 1997 or > something ranting about how "normal" people were ruining "our" internet, > with their top-replies and their geocities websites with purple text on > green background and the BLINK tag. And this was BEFORE Flash... so I like > to occasionally put my Grumpy Old "I've Been Using The Internet Since The > 80s" hat and tell people to get off my digital lawn. > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kc0iog at gmail.com Wed Mar 12 22:03:21 2014 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 22:03:21 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] virtual filesystem In-Reply-To: References: <531F4A6A-0006E771@penguinpackets.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:06 PM, gregrwm wrote: > next question, i wonder if a similar ability, for linux to boot its > root in a subdirectory, is available in other environments, eg ext3, > or HFS+, and if any distros and/or installers exist that make use of > that? or what the syntax would be with a root= argument that already > specifies a UUID? I'm pretty sure the subdirectory feature is baked into loadlin. I haven't messed with loadlin for years. I used to run Mandrake on top of vfat (I think 6.5 or so supported this on the install disk... 1999 or so?). If you wanted to play with subdirectories for root, you might be able to use syslinux to masquerade such things. I've tried unsuccessfully to do something like this with live CDs, but it's worth tinkering with. Brian From tclug at freakzilla.com Wed Mar 12 22:04:51 2014 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 22:04:51 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Reply Positioning In-Reply-To: <4C062E97-F7E0-458D-956C-18AF9CEDF2B0@me.com> References: <7350216B-3BA4-4C28-A1F3-A24ABD85F2A8@me.com> <4C062E97-F7E0-458D-956C-18AF9CEDF2B0@me.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Mar 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote: > Only if you stop throwing your leaves onto mine! Oh dear. > I live all the way on the other side of the internet, dammit! :D Oh phew. I thought you were my actual neighbour. But just in case you /are/ my actual neighbour, it doesn't count as /throwing/ when the /wind/ does it. From tclug at freakzilla.com Wed Mar 12 22:07:34 2014 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 22:07:34 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Reply Positioning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Mar 2014, Jeff Chapin wrote: > It must have been hard in the bad old days, when you needed to shave off > every unneeded byte... Think about that every time you type 'ls' instead of 'list'! Seriously, the legacy of those times is still very much with us. (I remember trying to teach a VMS guy UNIX one time. He gave me no end of grief because the command to display a file on the screen is 'cat'. You know, because that's totally my fault. I tried to explain to him that that's short for 'concatenate', and that it can do a hell of a lot more than his precious 'TYPE' on VMS, but nooooooooooooo...) From kc0iog at gmail.com Wed Mar 12 22:11:06 2014 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 22:11:06 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Reply Positioning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 10:07 PM, wrote: > On Wed, 12 Mar 2014, Jeff Chapin wrote: > (I remember trying to teach a VMS guy UNIX one time. He gave me no end of > grief because the command to display a file on the screen is 'cat'. You > know, because that's totally my fault. I tried to explain to him that that's > short for 'concatenate', and that it can do a hell of a lot more than his > precious 'TYPE' on VMS, but nooooooooooooo...) Just point out how much more you can get done in that extra 25% of your day you got back because your command is three letters rather than four. Brian From stuporglue at gmail.com Wed Mar 12 22:16:18 2014 From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 22:16:18 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] What's a good search engine these days? Message-ID: Google has been letting me down tonight. I'm trying to use lastools and, I'm trying to understand what the "-use_lax" flag does, so I wrap it in quotes, and search for it in Google and don't get anything useful back. I expected to get results that had the exact phrase "-use_lax" somewhere on the page when using quotes around my search terms. I tried DuckDuckGo and Bing and got similar results. I found what I needed for tonight, but I'm looking for recommendations for next time Google deserts me. -- Michael -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Wed Mar 12 22:25:23 2014 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 22:25:23 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Reply Positioning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Mar 2014, Brian Wall wrote: > Just point out how much more you can get done in that extra 25% of > your day you got back because your command is three letters rather > than four. Actually it's three letters rather than 11 ('cat' vs 'concatenate'). His real problem was that the English word "Cat" is not really intuitive for "display contents of file on screen", whereas "type", nominally, is. When I mentioned 'cat' is short for 'concatenate', well, nobody knows what the hell concatenate means, anyway, especially since this was not taking place in an English-speaking country, as I'm sure you can tell from my accent. You weren't just saving time, though. You can take 'ls' rather than 'list' as an example. First, you just saved two bytes. That's two bytes for 'ls', one (by your reckoning) for 'cat', etc. It adds up, especially when your system would be lucky to count it's memory and storage space in kilobytes. Also, think about working on remote terminals back in the 1960s, back when 300 bauds would be blazing fast. Hell, I worked on remote terminals in the '80s and remember typing out commands and then waiting for them to actually be displayed on the other end... that one extra character could LITERALLY mean 5 minutes. So, yes... you saved a lot of your day. Remember that the first message sent over ARPANET was "lo". It was supposed to be "login" but then the system crashed... From pj.world at hotmail.com Wed Mar 12 22:30:27 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 22:30:27 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about free software Message-ID: If I may attach a link here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNBMdDaYhZA please look at 1:10 -->+ in this video Could anyone tell me that LinuxMnt or Ubuntu.. Linux Mint in General attaches alot of 'webservers?' Richard Stallman says he has 'no favor of open source' a question about GNU/GPL Sorry to bother you Thank you, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Wed Mar 12 22:34:44 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 22:34:44 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about free software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mar 12, 2014, at 10:30 PM, paul g wrote: > If I may attach a link here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNBMdDaYhZA > please look at 1:10 -->+ in this video For those who don?t get 1:10 means hours/minutes here?s the link to the response: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=SNBMdDaYhZA#t=4191 > Could anyone tell me that LinuxMnt or Ubuntu.. Linux Mint in General attaches alot of 'web servers?' I think you might have read into it a bit. I don?t see this at all - it?s more like he?s attacking the cloud, not the workstation. > Richard Stallman says he has 'no favor of open source? That?s fine? I?m holding my opinion about Stallman to myself. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erikerik at gmail.com Wed Mar 12 22:37:15 2014 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 22:37:15 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about free software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 10:30 PM, paul g wrote: > If I may attach a link here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNBMdDaYhZA > > please look at 1:10 -->+ in this video > Oh dear, the last thing we needed was an RMS thread. :) Could anyone tell me that LinuxMnt or Ubuntu.. Linux Mint in General > attaches alot of 'webservers?' > No, neither Linux Mint nor Ubuntu come with a single webserver. You'd need to explicitly install one if you wanted a webserver. Does that answer your question? -Erik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Wed Mar 12 22:40:11 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 22:40:11 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about free software In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Thank you for your prompt response. I would like you to teach more if you have the time. Some people would pay for classes from you. Thank you Ryan. Thank you, From: ryanjcole at me.com Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 22:34:44 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about free software On Mar 12, 2014, at 10:30 PM, paul g wrote:If I may attach a link here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNBMdDaYhZA please look at 1:10 -->+ in this video For those who don?t get 1:10 means hours/minutes here?s the link to the response: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=SNBMdDaYhZA#t=4191 Could anyone tell me that LinuxMnt or Ubuntu.. Linux Mint in General attaches alot of 'web servers?' I think you might have read into it a bit. I don?t see this at all - it?s more like he?s attacking the cloud, not the workstation. Richard Stallman says he has 'no favor of open source? That?s fine? I?m holding my opinion about Stallman to myself. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Wed Mar 12 22:41:28 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 22:41:28 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about free software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mar 12, 2014, at 10:40 PM, paul g wrote: > Thank you for your prompt response. I would like you to teach more if you have the time. Some people would pay for classes from you. I appreciate the vote of confidence but more people would pay me to shut up. :) > From: ryanjcole at me.com > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 22:34:44 -0500 > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about free software > > On Mar 12, 2014, at 10:30 PM, paul g wrote: > > If I may attach a link here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNBMdDaYhZA > please look at 1:10 -->+ in this video > For those who don?t get 1:10 means hours/minutes here?s the link to the response: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=SNBMdDaYhZA#t=4191 > > Could anyone tell me that LinuxMnt or Ubuntu.. Linux Mint in General attaches alot of 'web servers?' > I think you might have read into it a bit. I don?t see this at all - it?s more like he?s attacking the cloud, not the workstation. > > Richard Stallman says he has 'no favor of open source? > That?s fine? I?m holding my opinion about Stallman to myself. > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Wed Mar 12 22:42:17 2014 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 22:42:17 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] A question about free software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Paul, There's a lot of idealism in the Free Software movement. ...and then there are the fundamentalists, like RMS. "My way or NO way" kind of people. Was it RMS who contacted our (yes, our own TCLUG) and say he'll come talk to us... if we change the name of our group to the Twin Cities GNU/Linux User's Group? But we all decided that TCG/LUG sounded a bit silly? Apply a huge grain of salt when you listen to fundamentalists, no matter what their field. On Wed, 12 Mar 2014, paul g wrote: > If I may attach a link here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNBMdDaYhZA > > please look at 1:10 -->+ in this video > > > Could anyone tell me that LinuxMnt or Ubuntu.. Linux Mint in General > attaches alot of 'webservers?' > > Richard Stallman says he has 'no favor of open source' > > a question about GNU/GPL > > Sorry to bother you > > Thank you, > > From erikerik at gmail.com Wed Mar 12 22:42:33 2014 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 22:42:33 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about free software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 10:30 PM, paul g wrote: > Richard Stallman says he has 'no favor of open source' By saying this, RMS is trying to make a distinction between "Open Source" software and "Free" software. In the case of the former, you may indeed have rights to read through the source code, but no rights to modify, re-use, or redistribute that software. RMS's definition of "Free" software is software that you are free to use, modify, redistribute, etc., as long as the original license carries through. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Wed Mar 12 22:48:27 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 22:48:27 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about free software In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Thank you for the explanation. So all this 'open source code' is off limits to being modified? Unless it's under a GNU license? Thank you, Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 22:42:33 -0500 From: erikerik at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about free software On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 10:30 PM, paul g wrote: Richard Stallman says he has 'no favor of open source' By saying this, RMS is trying to make a distinction between "Open Source" software and "Free" software. In the case of the former, you may indeed have rights to read through the source code, but no rights to modify, re-use, or redistribute that software. RMS's definition of "Free" software is software that you are free to use, modify, redistribute, etc., as long as the original license carries through. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erikerik at gmail.com Wed Mar 12 22:52:05 2014 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 22:52:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about free software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 10:48 PM, paul g wrote: > So all this 'open source code' is off limits to being modified? Unless > it's under a GNU license? Not necessarily. What RMS is playing a semantics game. The term "Open Source" is a non-specific term, describing software for which you can obtain the source code. That software may be GPL-licensed, in which case you can modify it, use it in your own code, etc., as long as you stick to the terms of the original GPL license. Other software may be under the BSD license, where you can modify it, use it in your own code, even if it's proprietary code, and the original license does not need to carry through to the derivative code. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Wed Mar 12 22:58:32 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 22:58:32 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about free software In-Reply-To: References: , , , Message-ID: Simply for me: does BSD license give me more freedom than GPL-License? Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 22:52:05 -0500 From: erikerik at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about free software On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 10:48 PM, paul g wrote: So all this 'open source code' is off limits to being modified? Unless it's under a GNU license? Not necessarily. What RMS is playing a semantics game. The term "Open Source" is a non-specific term, describing software for which you can obtain the source code. That software may be GPL-licensed, in which case you can modify it, use it in your own code, etc., as long as you stick to the terms of the original GPL license. Other software may be under the BSD license, where you can modify it, use it in your own code, even if it's proprietary code, and the original license does not need to carry through to the derivative code. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erikerik at gmail.com Wed Mar 12 23:03:26 2014 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:03:26 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about free software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 10:58 PM, paul g wrote: > does BSD license give me more freedom than GPL-License? It depends on your definition of "freedom". Some people say that the GPL gives less freedom, as it makes it difficult to use GPL-licensed software as part of a larger non-GPL (or proprietary) package. Conversely, some people say that BSD gives less freedom, as it infringes on the rights of the original software authors to have their code (and any derivative code) remain open-source. I am employed by a company that uses open-source software extensively in our proprietary software product. When choosing other pre-existing packages to use as part of our product, we nearly always try and find something that is BSD (or equivalent) licensed. It's all very complicated, and there are very strong opinions on both sides of the issue. You probably just ought to spend some time reading about the various open-source licenses to familiarize yourself. -Erik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Wed Mar 12 23:07:58 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:07:58 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about free software In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , Message-ID: Thank you for helping me I agree that I need to spend time I am a bit slow either way. Thank you, all Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:03:26 -0500 From: erikerik at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about free software On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 10:58 PM, paul g wrote: does BSD license give me more freedom than GPL-License? It depends on your definition of "freedom". Some people say that the GPL gives less freedom, as it makes it difficult to use GPL-licensed software as part of a larger non-GPL (or proprietary) package. Conversely, some people say that BSD gives less freedom, as it infringes on the rights of the original software authors to have their code (and any derivative code) remain open-source. I am employed by a company that uses open-source software extensively in our proprietary software product. When choosing other pre-existing packages to use as part of our product, we nearly always try and find something that is BSD (or equivalent) licensed. It's all very complicated, and there are very strong opinions on both sides of the issue. You probably just ought to spend some time reading about the various open-source licenses to familiarize yourself. -Erik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Wed Mar 12 23:09:19 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:09:19 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about free software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2DE1E4F4-5DE0-4D32-B0A4-E0F7ADB9BDCD@me.com> I think you?ll be concerned with licensing if you?re creating another package. If you?re using a Linux derivative for personal use there?s very little you have to worry about. On Mar 12, 2014, at 11:07 PM, paul g wrote: > Thank you for helping me I agree that I need to spend time I am a bit slow either way. > > Thank you, all > > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:03:26 -0500 > From: erikerik at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about free software > > On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 10:58 PM, paul g wrote: > does BSD license give me more freedom than GPL-License? > > It depends on your definition of "freedom". > > Some people say that the GPL gives less freedom, as it makes it difficult to use GPL-licensed software as part of a larger non-GPL (or proprietary) package. Conversely, some people say that BSD gives less freedom, as it infringes on the rights of the original software authors to have their code (and any derivative code) remain open-source. > > I am employed by a company that uses open-source software extensively in our proprietary software product. When choosing other pre-existing packages to use as part of our product, we nearly always try and find something that is BSD (or equivalent) licensed. > > It's all very complicated, and there are very strong opinions on both sides of the issue. You probably just ought to spend some time reading about the various open-source licenses to familiarize yourself. > > -Erik > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Wed Mar 12 23:12:51 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:12:51 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about free software In-Reply-To: <2DE1E4F4-5DE0-4D32-B0A4-E0F7ADB9BDCD@me.com> References: , , , , , , , <2DE1E4F4-5DE0-4D32-B0A4-E0F7ADB9BDCD@me.com> Message-ID: Would you be willing to provide a seminar on this topic? From: ryanjcole at me.com Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:09:19 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about free software I think you?ll be concerned with licensing if you?re creating another package. If you?re using a Linux derivative for personal use there?s very little you have to worry about. On Mar 12, 2014, at 11:07 PM, paul g wrote:Thank you for helping me I agree that I need to spend time I am a bit slow either way. Thank you, all Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:03:26 -0500 From: erikerik at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about free software On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 10:58 PM, paul g wrote: does BSD license give me more freedom than GPL-License? It depends on your definition of "freedom". Some people say that the GPL gives less freedom, as it makes it difficult to use GPL-licensed software as part of a larger non-GPL (or proprietary) package. Conversely, some people say that BSD gives less freedom, as it infringes on the rights of the original software authors to have their code (and any derivative code) remain open-source. I am employed by a company that uses open-source software extensively in our proprietary software product. When choosing other pre-existing packages to use as part of our product, we nearly always try and find something that is BSD (or equivalent) licensed. It's all very complicated, and there are very strong opinions on both sides of the issue. You probably just ought to spend some time reading about the various open-source licenses to familiarize yourself. -Erik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list_______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Wed Mar 12 23:15:02 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:15:02 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about free software In-Reply-To: References: <2DE1E4F4-5DE0-4D32-B0A4-E0F7ADB9BDCD@me.com> Message-ID: On Mar 12, 2014, at 11:12 PM, paul g wrote: > Would you be willing to provide a seminar on this topic? Paul, I appreciate your willingness to learn but I am not this wise person you think I am. I know a few things VERY well, and a lot of things kinda well and some things I never want to know at all? If you notice I don?t response on 95% of the subjects on this list, most of the members are like that. ? Ryan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.wagle at gmail.com Wed Mar 12 23:18:04 2014 From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:18:04 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Reply Positioning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5321317C.8090509@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Why do I suspect that whenever someone starts talking about "letting our parents onto the internet" that I've usually been using computers longer than they've been alive . . . On 03/12/2014 09:48 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: > Heck, I'm using [al]Pine, an ancient and very UNIX-y mail reader, > and even it defaults to top-reply. The logic being you want to type > out "Hi there," before you scroll down and start replying in-body. > > And THAT is the netiquette that was lost. You're not supposed to go > all the way to the bottom and just start typing, you're supposed to > go into the message, find the specific part you're commenting on, > hit ENTER a couple times and start typing after that specific > quoted text. > > I tried ot fight for inline replies back in the day, but as soon as > we started letting our parents and siblings and other non-geeky > people on the Internet... well, they outnumber us. > > Now if you reply in-line you have to actually go "Replies > inline..." or people don't know what the heck you're doing. > > > TL;DR: You're both wrong. > > > On Wed, 12 Mar 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote: > >> So does Apple Mail. But not Thunderbird. On Mar 12, 2014, at 9:42 >> PM, Jeff Chapin wrote: >> >> Even if you don't drink it... Gmail seems to default to top >> posting... >> >> On Mar 12, 2014 9:39 PM, "Ryan Coleman" >> wrote: It's easy if you don't drink koolaid --- says the apple >> owner. >> >> >> On Mar 12, 2014, at 21:37, Jeff Chapin >> wrote: >> >> Must be tough to fight Google... >> >> On Mar 12, 2014 6:03 PM, "Samael" wrote: >> He is a bottom post only kinda guy. >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 10:12 PM, Brian Wood >> wrote: >> http://www.meetingcpp.com/index.php/newsreader/items/c-user-group-meetings- >> >> >> in-january-2014.html >> >> Is there interest in a C++ users group? . Maybe a quarterly >> meeting? There's a conference room where I have an office in >> Roseville that seats about 12 -15. I'm willing to provide that >> and some snacks, but would want someone else to plan a meeting. >> >> >> The list is growing: >> http://isocpp.org/blog/2014/03/c-user-group-meetings-in-march >> >> But there's nothing in this area. It's not practical to go to >> Denver or Chicago to talk about C++. How about a yearly or >> semiannual meeting? My offer to host still stands. >> >> Reminder: I do not respond to top-posted replies. >> >> -- Brian Ebenezer Enterprises - Heavenly code. >> http://webEbenezer.net >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing >> List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing >> List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing >> List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing >> List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing >> List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List > - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTITF8AAoJELWzpBXk2k3wEcEIAKAs7AApy5wz490LZFI0ojv6 HubMYsMLTV5KKDkWHS6JPgbLK13iCSi9dAnhfZwAeVabQvUBF5hYvpIoqxOtO6FR Vs1YpnJSX+bj0nnKe0ihsIgwi1X/jXSiG451BdjX3bXq6RI67lX7Hw89kuft9jc6 l2WBYWCUWuW4eLGvmFpQotDVaayaDTFaxSfkzN1wFE/HaK3EINYc42kIqS8AXQgx ZOFzS4fNsQKDpnBqt3WzdvMHcckdPxe6rONh/3nFH4GoDU+uzi6ewmzgforL7vme U4qvy5gaoSlDi1N4etqN8q1nFC2YUlaIUNFYv5rZGT0OX56taPtwIrup1b0pDbY= =Xrvd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From pj.world at hotmail.com Wed Mar 12 23:22:30 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:22:30 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about free software In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , , <2DE1E4F4-5DE0-4D32-B0A4-E0F7ADB9BDCD@me.com>, , Message-ID: Ryan I respect you and I thank you for your time as always I appreciate your help. Thank you, From: ryanjcole at me.com Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:15:02 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about free software On Mar 12, 2014, at 11:12 PM, paul g wrote:Would you be willing to provide a seminar on this topic? Paul, I appreciate your willingness to learn but I am not this wise person you think I am. I know a few things VERY well, and a lot of things kinda well and some things I never want to know at all? If you notice I don?t response on 95% of the subjects on this list, most of the members are like that. ?Ryan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.wagle at gmail.com Wed Mar 12 23:25:57 2014 From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:25:57 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Reply Positioning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53213355.1080804@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 03/12/2014 10:11 PM, Brian Wall wrote: >> I tried to explain to him that that's short for 'concatenate', >> and that it can do a hell of a lot more than his precious 'TYPE' >> on VMS, but nooooooooooooo...) > > Just point out how much more you can get done in that extra 25% of > your day you got back because your command is three letters rather > than four. I often think the notion that small productivity gains multiply is lost on people these days. Sure, alias'ing `ls -la` to 'l` only saves 6 keystrokes, but if I don't type those 6 keystrokes 10 thousand times a year, that adds up to real time savings. l -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTITNVAAoJELWzpBXk2k3w7yUH/00kfkbosSD9kxON68lK15wq 3DbBktDp83MlUe415Fz+/6pBvmTxakbZylfswTPIlholbjYLbT2O7BvMFS+qYO/B ZDM+RQICpmS0bmBWwxxGqGv57kFqOBj/EDEi8ma0l4Io9v3C+LRO+Mq0m+3NHvCK LB8sSmWeOOg5O+xeAwmX9iNMWPXeLjm/jiKJlegEoaeemaHcHIGEDJKqQjGBklI1 kZni10C2PCTW5MkKOcP64Io6h7WJjc+/EnFbiFgu/zgiTjM+xMW7Ffo+HDYYJf+n WMS3UvMVpBQDZ3CE9dG6OZn0duJB/zT4svdW1VnYY7D7BL/7X/yldB17pFg5SfU= =9KIV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From david.wagle at gmail.com Wed Mar 12 23:32:03 2014 From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:32:03 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about free software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <532134C3.1080705@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > > Oh dear, the last thing we needed was an RMS thread. :) > RMS greatest gift to the world isn't Emacs or GCC, it's the ability for a bunch of people who's name will never appear in a history book to have a reason to argue over the achievements and character of a guy who fundamentally shaped the digital canvas of our day. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTITTDAAoJELWzpBXk2k3w+uQH/2S0gUkaIKyYC5JTr+LV8WuF Lodmvhjd2yd8OpZ00gPExk2mIyZhzh/v0q6vFkTQR9guRJ1ZK5iOd4Ze71cRvU6O S44ntKHFJumbfF4gPQ2VzRU+tSxP/fG/PHP5V/6AxFLVqYARX6ixsJfu9WWHrpDN RzTnnTnckY1OtOi8fsX169OFeW0yH8ojt/LtUvo23ohAEC7BTyHSH4Q4R+7VGQVg Q8J4/+dz8O8AAVDEnYT0pk9osOyBrrZH2igqwNirHojeqvRRUk3SgVoxHlX0wpFh PlgtUC1JLFXcEOvbb7oEX6X5GwcFJo6M7i/yP6dklX1sLvr4CiCCwBSVHAMzRUg= =yX1n -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From pj.world at hotmail.com Wed Mar 12 23:37:41 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:37:41 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about free software In-Reply-To: <532134C3.1080705@gmail.com> References: , , <532134C3.1080705@gmail.com> Message-ID: David would you be willing to talk with new users of GNU/Linux and BSD about CUPS and how to more properly ensure permissions when installing per say a fax unit or any type of permissions? > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:32:03 -0500 > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about free software > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > > > > > Oh dear, the last thing we needed was an RMS thread. :) > > > > RMS greatest gift to the world isn't Emacs or GCC, it's the ability > for a bunch of people who's name will never appear in a history book > to have a reason to argue over the achievements and character of a guy > who fundamentally shaped the digital canvas of our day. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTITTDAAoJELWzpBXk2k3w+uQH/2S0gUkaIKyYC5JTr+LV8WuF > Lodmvhjd2yd8OpZ00gPExk2mIyZhzh/v0q6vFkTQR9guRJ1ZK5iOd4Ze71cRvU6O > S44ntKHFJumbfF4gPQ2VzRU+tSxP/fG/PHP5V/6AxFLVqYARX6ixsJfu9WWHrpDN > RzTnnTnckY1OtOi8fsX169OFeW0yH8ojt/LtUvo23ohAEC7BTyHSH4Q4R+7VGQVg > Q8J4/+dz8O8AAVDEnYT0pk9osOyBrrZH2igqwNirHojeqvRRUk3SgVoxHlX0wpFh > PlgtUC1JLFXcEOvbb7oEX6X5GwcFJo6M7i/yP6dklX1sLvr4CiCCwBSVHAMzRUg= > =yX1n > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.wagle at gmail.com Wed Mar 12 23:40:24 2014 From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:40:24 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about free software In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <532136B8.4060200@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 03/12/2014 10:48 PM, paul g wrote: > Thank you for the explanation. > > So all this 'open source code' is off limits to being modified? > Unless it's under a GNU license? The license software is released under is the license it is released under. Most of the concerns RMS has about re-usability are secured under licenses that meet the criteria of being "Open Source." Indeed, it's very hard to see what his problem is beyond the failure of the community to rally around his word choice. For a license to be "open source" under the standards of the open source consortium, the licensee must be free to view the source code, modify the source code, redistribute the source code or binaries, and so forth. Indeed, it is easily arguable that the FSF GLP licenses are less "free" in terms of "freedom" than the Open Source Consortium standards because they are highly restrictive with regards to what a user can do in terms of using the code in ways that do not carry that freedom forward whereas an Open Source license can allow a user to "close" a fork of a product and make it proprietary if they choose to do so. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTITa4AAoJELWzpBXk2k3wtzQH+weWDM7MkwnB9346sotRno1N JuaQkw5jG8DdE2dsFOZu1u6dj+f85Dzv7GuzaGE5gMQbSZAIeG9y1Vc1PycNGbg9 x7XIH3AxUZ2ZeoEVzi6gnfcegK7OZNpN4Im1uh8Zo5P0Cut5a9LUNHSqwc8aN4kn tncDHh9e4H4sFTAduDxjZWjBUgKraprcUwM981Hz3YJ4OCr6+PaaeznAX0hcpRRD h3O6DA12mWaadgoFS6+fyPgQtiKjDskYD2DIwS2bauw2LEj2/mL+1soDqQSJrvur BWjiKDQg3oWyY3ZbpcQTLRwoFmU0VBgo7ozdD9O6fG7Gwz9P0GYq+1Mcc8d6jzc= =F1Ee -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From david.wagle at gmail.com Wed Mar 12 23:44:06 2014 From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:44:06 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about free software In-Reply-To: References: , , , Message-ID: <53213796.5050304@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 03/12/2014 10:58 PM, paul g wrote: . .. stuff If you are looking for legal advice from a mailing list, you're going to fail. The actual legal interpretation of licensing is a highly specialized legal field and most likely few if any people on this list are qualified to provide it. Moreover, those that are likely will refuse to do so without establishing a client-attorney relationship with you which will not happen over a public list. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTITeWAAoJELWzpBXk2k3wYIwIAJG4ZU/9C7D22AS30Jo6e91s /QFim/QDjdIVHxjfVyxno/JCZgGqVCp4GYFlQw1AWAfWvxhKGFThZjMskXah3T6c 1VBx4fO0rHrYaYJ+oO3OGMnN9qPYm/fn9JVBNuWtG1lxLyJEW2PIdqlEpIbUbco7 wxKidl9knlcPpp1EdfN4dMMRvUHBROIaiy7DH5I5makH5TxtF5Ry/1PlGWWhwp+5 iv9Fu1p6KHNlD/XDrnEVBuhF70Oe49FM992vzBOy/j7hfjE+PfkpDlH80l8IVacP 30h5ASnegi8bYSsHusLLM9+OxkqWsE9GM/jHG889kzHDvvoQHDfSIFSme5Asvas= =QWoW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From pj.world at hotmail.com Wed Mar 12 23:47:45 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:47:45 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about free software In-Reply-To: <53213796.5050304@gmail.com> References: , , , , , , , , <53213796.5050304@gmail.com> Message-ID: Could I rephrase my question to you and ask if you would be willing to explain 'permissions' in the Linux operating system to a few who would greatly appreciate a leader. > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:44:06 -0500 > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about free software > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On 03/12/2014 10:58 PM, paul g wrote: > . .. stuff > > If you are looking for legal advice from a mailing list, you're going > to fail. > > The actual legal interpretation of licensing is a highly specialized > legal field and most likely few if any people on this list are > qualified to provide it. Moreover, those that are likely will refuse > to do so without establishing a client-attorney relationship with you > which will not happen over a public list. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTITeWAAoJELWzpBXk2k3wYIwIAJG4ZU/9C7D22AS30Jo6e91s > /QFim/QDjdIVHxjfVyxno/JCZgGqVCp4GYFlQw1AWAfWvxhKGFThZjMskXah3T6c > 1VBx4fO0rHrYaYJ+oO3OGMnN9qPYm/fn9JVBNuWtG1lxLyJEW2PIdqlEpIbUbco7 > wxKidl9knlcPpp1EdfN4dMMRvUHBROIaiy7DH5I5makH5TxtF5Ry/1PlGWWhwp+5 > iv9Fu1p6KHNlD/XDrnEVBuhF70Oe49FM992vzBOy/j7hfjE+PfkpDlH80l8IVacP > 30h5ASnegi8bYSsHusLLM9+OxkqWsE9GM/jHG889kzHDvvoQHDfSIFSme5Asvas= > =QWoW > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.wagle at gmail.com Wed Mar 12 23:50:58 2014 From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:50:58 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about free software In-Reply-To: References: , , <532134C3.1080705@gmail.com> Message-ID: <53213932.7050704@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 03/12/2014 11:37 PM, paul g wrote: > David would you be willing to talk with new users of GNU/Linux and > BSD about CUPS and how to more properly ensure permissions when > installing per say a fax unit or any type of permissions? > Paul -- I really don't know much about CUPS. My knowledge of printing became obsolete the minute they superseded `lpd` I was just able to help you figure out your problem by parsing the error messages you were getting. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTITkyAAoJELWzpBXk2k3wb00IAKAXrWSkrw47h/EDaoOaXxBM zbbsTxI4HMxJY2JoxHMNEGnTWLqbsOAID+GU1ta6beCAkRWNWJeaCUW3qz6i5F/3 kJ7bXnFBxDdhfGqph2Fr+K9kqpOX6MK+KRw/3eF5AYsi8OWq4lCp1vPfus+0TWzj Qb4i4AR+VFxuGudXrf/ny21nnUyjeODt8I7gUyQvNcvN+66FwyiifSYI1XUe/v/y +cRhHiXslkrmwiVz7nsoNpq1L3VWQssRPH60MPNvAwfqPIzR30yscSZYRAJaBZyM WoiMwrfZYiai8D6gAErKxEQ5E5hwcQh8MzaFJL+GJjCeLP2Yd4TI404+MCjFAFA= =zPF8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tclug at freakzilla.com Wed Mar 12 23:51:37 2014 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:51:37 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Reply Positioning In-Reply-To: <5321317C.8090509@gmail.com> References: <5321317C.8090509@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Mar 2014, David Wagle wrote: > Why do I suspect that whenever someone starts talking about "letting > our parents onto the internet" that I've usually been using computers > longer than they've been alive . . . Not impossible in my case, but getting less and less likely as time goes by (: Like I said, I wrote that article almost 20 years ago... From pj.world at hotmail.com Wed Mar 12 23:53:39 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:53:39 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about free software In-Reply-To: <53213932.7050704@gmail.com> References: , , , , <532134C3.1080705@gmail.com> ,<53213932.7050704@gmail.com> Message-ID: I know I need to study more I apologize for asking dumb questions. I did not mean to be rude. Thank you for your time. Thank you, > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:50:58 -0500 > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about free software > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On 03/12/2014 11:37 PM, paul g wrote: > > David would you be willing to talk with new users of GNU/Linux and > > BSD about CUPS and how to more properly ensure permissions when > > installing per say a fax unit or any type of permissions? > > > > Paul -- I really don't know much about CUPS. My knowledge of printing > became obsolete the minute they superseded `lpd` > > I was just able to help you figure out your problem by parsing the > error messages you were getting. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTITkyAAoJELWzpBXk2k3wb00IAKAXrWSkrw47h/EDaoOaXxBM > zbbsTxI4HMxJY2JoxHMNEGnTWLqbsOAID+GU1ta6beCAkRWNWJeaCUW3qz6i5F/3 > kJ7bXnFBxDdhfGqph2Fr+K9kqpOX6MK+KRw/3eF5AYsi8OWq4lCp1vPfus+0TWzj > Qb4i4AR+VFxuGudXrf/ny21nnUyjeODt8I7gUyQvNcvN+66FwyiifSYI1XUe/v/y > +cRhHiXslkrmwiVz7nsoNpq1L3VWQssRPH60MPNvAwfqPIzR30yscSZYRAJaBZyM > WoiMwrfZYiai8D6gAErKxEQ5E5hwcQh8MzaFJL+GJjCeLP2Yd4TI404+MCjFAFA= > =zPF8 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.wagle at gmail.com Wed Mar 12 23:54:45 2014 From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:54:45 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about free software In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , , , <53213796.5050304@gmail.com> Message-ID: <53213A15.8070107@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 03/12/2014 11:47 PM, paul g wrote: > Could I rephrase my question to you and ask if you would be willing > to explain 'permissions' in the Linux operating system to a few who > would greatly appreciate a leader. > If there's interest and I'm available I can certainly speak to basic permission issues. But honestly for the next few months I'm going to be terribly busy. I just became the operations manager for the coming "B-Sides" MSP conference in August. Every free minute I have right now is being spent figuring out how to not fall on my face and make this conference fly :) For those that are interested, the web site is here: http://www.securitybsides.com/w/page/28895781/BSidesMSP I know there's some overlap in the Linux and security communities. Anyone who wants to abuse themselves by volunteering to help run a conference should feel free to contact me off-list ;) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTIToVAAoJELWzpBXk2k3wQA0H/RMxzGHqmFjevYPd/LK5DI1T 0/sujeOTKNQgQYR5ZzAx2tLd9u8BSSRJ9qABFu/b1h0uk7knd8MiTkUVXexaGNEj 8pj4AzBDWZKKLhvwNoTWD68N9Cw7Ebaz+SicAD+mWSOs1eZ9pGP8Z/xp2vjca37N 033B3/ocWYiY4i9UsqLMWu0H7vJlGwg3erCzZLJqQJnGqprGxDXRtmZkMIi3s3+u aKH0xskS5FXtmdgDM+d7mL1RSKJWMqGWY2tcmYNnHir8UgU6bwVg/SNEDeJSZECo F+AaAAIOOku3UUIT5OVBCQVqBvWddvDQaZSTKYr9AmKLalJ/QmvbLymEB3hype8= =x9ek -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From pj.world at hotmail.com Thu Mar 13 00:03:53 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 00:03:53 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about free software In-Reply-To: <53213A15.8070107@gmail.com> References: , ,,, ,,, , , , , , , <53213796.5050304@gmail.com> ,<53213A15.8070107@gmail.com> Message-ID: If you have any time to talk about troubleshooting permissions under the Linux operating system it would be very awesome. I wish you the best success also. Thank you, > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:54:45 -0500 > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about free software > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On 03/12/2014 11:47 PM, paul g wrote: > > Could I rephrase my question to you and ask if you would be willing > > to explain 'permissions' in the Linux operating system to a few who > > would greatly appreciate a leader. > > > > If there's interest and I'm available I can certainly speak to basic > permission issues. But honestly for the next few months I'm going to > be terribly busy. I just became the operations manager for the coming > "B-Sides" MSP conference in August. Every free minute I have right now > is being spent figuring out how to not fall on my face and make this > conference fly :) > > For those that are interested, the web site is here: > > http://www.securitybsides.com/w/page/28895781/BSidesMSP > > I know there's some overlap in the Linux and security communities. > Anyone who wants to abuse themselves by volunteering to help run a > conference should feel free to contact me off-list ;) > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTIToVAAoJELWzpBXk2k3wQA0H/RMxzGHqmFjevYPd/LK5DI1T > 0/sujeOTKNQgQYR5ZzAx2tLd9u8BSSRJ9qABFu/b1h0uk7knd8MiTkUVXexaGNEj > 8pj4AzBDWZKKLhvwNoTWD68N9Cw7Ebaz+SicAD+mWSOs1eZ9pGP8Z/xp2vjca37N > 033B3/ocWYiY4i9UsqLMWu0H7vJlGwg3erCzZLJqQJnGqprGxDXRtmZkMIi3s3+u > aKH0xskS5FXtmdgDM+d7mL1RSKJWMqGWY2tcmYNnHir8UgU6bwVg/SNEDeJSZECo > F+AaAAIOOku3UUIT5OVBCQVqBvWddvDQaZSTKYr9AmKLalJ/QmvbLymEB3hype8= > =x9ek > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjensen at apache.org Thu Mar 13 06:21:23 2014 From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 06:21:23 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] What's a good search engine these days? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've have been using https://www.ixquick.com/ recently. I made it my home page and default browser search engine. I like the theory and it works well (searches multiple engines simultaneously and anonymously). However, sometimes I found the results insufficient and then tried Google... yes, the Google ones were usually better in those situations. "da goog" just knew better what I was looking for... either that or the link ranking of mashing multiple sites reduced the more relevant links. It has a sister site: https://startpage.com/ that searches anonymously as ixquick does but uses only Google. Refer to the About links on each site for info... On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 10:16 PM, Michael Moore wrote: > Google has been letting me down tonight. > > I'm trying to use lastools and, I'm trying to understand what the > "-use_lax" flag does, so I wrap it in quotes, and search for it in Google > and don't get anything useful back. > > I expected to get results that had the exact phrase "-use_lax" somewhere > on the page when using quotes around my search terms. > > I tried DuckDuckGo and Bing and got similar results. > > I found what I needed for tonight, but I'm looking for recommendations for > next time Google deserts me. > > -- > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erikerik at gmail.com Thu Mar 13 06:47:55 2014 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 06:47:55 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about free software In-Reply-To: <532134C3.1080705@gmail.com> References: <532134C3.1080705@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 11:32 PM, David Wagle wrote: > RMS greatest gift to the world isn't Emacs or GCC, it's the ability > for a bunch of people who's name will never appear in a history book > to have a reason to argue over the achievements and character of a guy > who fundamentally shaped the digital canvas of our day. > Nice jab, but my comment said nothing about RMS's character, and I tried to be careful in my further comments to remain neutral and let people form their own opinions. I was just making a nod to the fact that, like text editor preference disucussions, RMS discussions tend to be rather polarizing, drawing out all manner of zealotry (from both sides of the argument). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erikerik at gmail.com Thu Mar 13 06:50:51 2014 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 06:50:51 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about free software In-Reply-To: References: <532134C3.1080705@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 11:37 PM, paul g wrote: > David would you be willing to talk with new users of GNU/Linux and BSD > about CUPS and how to more properly ensure permissions when installing per > say a fax unit or any type of permissions? Paul, you may not know this, but it's considered bad mailing list etiquette (on this list and elsewhere) to hijack threads, which is what you did here. You wanted to start a discussion about CUPS, which is *fine*, but instead of composing a new email to start up the discussion, you replied to an existing thread, and in doing so, "hijacked" the thread topic. So, in the future, if you want to start a new discussion, just compose a new email instead of replying to an existing thread. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlunde at gmail.com Thu Mar 13 07:26:26 2014 From: tlunde at gmail.com (T L) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 07:26:26 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] What's a good search engine these days? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You've got two things working against you here: The minus sign is a signal to remove whatever it precedes from the results. So, when searching for option flags, remove the - or -- characters. A while back, Google demoted quotation marks. Previously, it denoted a required term. Now, it only signals an especially desired term. Bing is much better than it used to be, so it is my fallback choice. Still, I think that Google still has the best general purpose search engine. Thomas On Mar 13, 2014 6:29 AM, "Jeff Jensen" wrote: > I've have been using > https://www.ixquick.com/ > recently. I made it my home page and default browser search engine. > > I like the theory and it works well (searches multiple engines > simultaneously and anonymously). However, sometimes I found the results > insufficient and then tried Google... yes, the Google ones were usually > better in those situations. "da goog" just knew better what I was looking > for... either that or the link ranking of mashing multiple sites reduced > the more relevant links. > > It has a sister site: > https://startpage.com/ > that searches anonymously as ixquick does but uses only Google. > > Refer to the About links on each site for info... > > > > > On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 10:16 PM, Michael Moore wrote: > >> Google has been letting me down tonight. >> >> I'm trying to use lastools and, I'm trying to understand what the >> "-use_lax" flag does, so I wrap it in quotes, and search for it in Google >> and don't get anything useful back. >> >> I expected to get results that had the exact phrase "-use_lax" somewhere >> on the page when using quotes around my search terms. >> >> I tried DuckDuckGo and Bing and got similar results. >> >> I found what I needed for tonight, but I'm looking for recommendations >> for next time Google deserts me. >> >> -- >> Michael >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuporglue at gmail.com Thu Mar 13 08:51:35 2014 From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 08:51:35 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] What's a good search engine these days? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > You've got two things working against you here: > > The minus sign is a signal to remove whatever it precedes from the > results. So, when searching for option flags, remove the - or -- > characters. > > A while back, Google demoted quotation marks. Previously, it denoted a > required term. Now, it only signals an especially desired term. > I missed that quotes had been demoted. I noticed and remember when they demoted the plus sign, which forced me to start using double quotes instead. Their Advanced Search page (http://www.google.im/advanced_search) still uses wording that suggests it should work, but obviously it's not. > Bing is much better than it used to be, so it is my fallback choice. > Still, I think that Google still has the best general purpose search engine. > It has gotten much better, that's for sure. When it started it was such a joke, but I do fall back to it now. > I've have been using >> https://www.ixquick.com/ >> recently. I made it my home page and default browser search engine. >> >> I like the theory and it works well (searches multiple engines >> simultaneously and anonymously). >> > Does anyone else remember the DogPile search engine? It was convenient because then you didn't have to try 3 or 4 search engines to find what you wanted. It seems that that sort of things is starting to make a come back. Thanks for the suggestions. I'll try them out as Google fails me. -- Michael Moore -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Thu Mar 13 18:35:12 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 18:35:12 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A question about free software In-Reply-To: References: , , <532134C3.1080705@gmail.com>, , Message-ID: I did not know that Erik I apologize and understand about hijacking treads. Thank you for nicely telling me about my inconsideration. I apologize. Thank you, Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 06:50:51 -0500 From: erikerik at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about free software On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 11:37 PM, paul g wrote: David would you be willing to talk with new users of GNU/Linux and BSD about CUPS and how to more properly ensure permissions when installing per say a fax unit or any type of permissions? Paul, you may not know this, but it's considered bad mailing list etiquette (on this list and elsewhere) to hijack threads, which is what you did here. You wanted to start a discussion about CUPS, which is *fine*, but instead of composing a new email to start up the discussion, you replied to an existing thread, and in doing so, "hijacked" the thread topic. So, in the future, if you want to start a new discussion, just compose a new email instead of replying to an existing thread. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Thu Mar 13 20:37:29 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 20:37:29 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Mint Petra Message-ID: As a beginning computer user I feel impressed with the 'built in' installation of 'luks' for encrytion. I chose to encrypt my home directory during installation also. If anyone has their security thoughts about 'Luks' or basic encryption feedback. Please feel free to post. Thank you, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erikerik at gmail.com Thu Mar 13 21:20:37 2014 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 21:20:37 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Mint Petra In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 8:37 PM, paul g wrote: > If anyone has their security thoughts about 'Luks' or basic encryption > feedback. I fear you'll need to be much more specific on what type of feedback you're looking for. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Thu Mar 13 21:23:42 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 21:23:42 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Mint Petra In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: I am looking for more feedback about the security 'Luks' how easily can an encrypted disk be mounted to see the contents of the container encrypted with 'Luks' encryption. Thank you, Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 21:20:37 -0500 From: erikerik at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Linux Mint Petra On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 8:37 PM, paul g wrote: If anyone has their security thoughts about 'Luks' or basic encryption feedback. I fear you'll need to be much more specific on what type of feedback you're looking for. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.wagle at gmail.com Thu Mar 13 23:07:25 2014 From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 23:07:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Mint Petra In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5322807D.6080103@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I'm actually not a fan as it creates problems with using google authenticator as the rc file is in the home directory while it's encrypted and thus can't be checked by the PAM module . . . On 03/13/2014 08:37 PM, paul g wrote: > As a beginning computer user I feel impressed with the 'built in' > installation of 'luks' for encrytion. I chose to encrypt my home > directory during installation also. If anyone has their security > thoughts about 'Luks' or basic encryption feedback. Please feel > free to post. > > Thank you, > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List > - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTIoB9AAoJELWzpBXk2k3w0x0H/Au0OZ0qPPMDhB9oOxePhsr0 KM8TPbyOF6YRrHRd7gXSev+W666Pte7nxDueFOJIqSeV8AFBe1E1Hlo1PcLSJcYP 4wmdJEwOTiJeRBorv8ot7d4aDaGRPHVVW47327mG9BicSjxqy3N72eNpKXZf2S7a Lcv+V2Wkxl4RWHywM9WHeHjW6mykxjHm1JbiGk4fW47xKaWXoNwnrcvAhc+e+jSC ag8JGqbzA85pePISSW4C7vLW5iPUJ701a+69zAyZrJq1B1drgC+Pw0bq+J/s/Fc4 th3lT1pv+5ySEbu1X38xypmHvp4w8AP0TRDO93IHbd+GayYRlWkQc54jKVUa8A8= =RCPG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From pj.world at hotmail.com Fri Mar 14 02:46:29 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2014 02:46:29 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Mint Petra In-Reply-To: <5322807D.6080103@gmail.com> References: , <5322807D.6080103@gmail.com> Message-ID: David if I set my home search to bing or ixquick does linux mint petra still have a PAM module. I do not use Google applications or the search engine. Please explain more about 'Why Google Authenticator' does not work with a luks drive. > Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 23:07:25 -0500 > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Linux Mint Petra > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I'm actually not a fan as it creates problems with using google > authenticator as the rc file is in the home directory while it's > encrypted and thus can't be checked by the PAM module . . . > > On 03/13/2014 08:37 PM, paul g wrote: > > As a beginning computer user I feel impressed with the 'built in' > > installation of 'luks' for encrytion. I chose to encrypt my home > > directory during installation also. If anyone has their security > > thoughts about 'Luks' or basic encryption feedback. Please feel > > free to post. > > > > Thank you, > > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List > > - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTIoB9AAoJELWzpBXk2k3w0x0H/Au0OZ0qPPMDhB9oOxePhsr0 > KM8TPbyOF6YRrHRd7gXSev+W666Pte7nxDueFOJIqSeV8AFBe1E1Hlo1PcLSJcYP > 4wmdJEwOTiJeRBorv8ot7d4aDaGRPHVVW47327mG9BicSjxqy3N72eNpKXZf2S7a > Lcv+V2Wkxl4RWHywM9WHeHjW6mykxjHm1JbiGk4fW47xKaWXoNwnrcvAhc+e+jSC > ag8JGqbzA85pePISSW4C7vLW5iPUJ701a+69zAyZrJq1B1drgC+Pw0bq+J/s/Fc4 > th3lT1pv+5ySEbu1X38xypmHvp4w8AP0TRDO93IHbd+GayYRlWkQc54jKVUa8A8= > =RCPG > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Fri Mar 14 09:02:25 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2014 09:02:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Mint Petra In-Reply-To: References: <5322807D.6080103@gmail.com> Message-ID: Google Authenticator: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Authenticator . It has nothing to do with searching. Linux PAM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_PAM . This is a common method of modifying or adjusting how users authenticate on Linux. Google Authenticator + PAM http://code.google.com/p/google-authenticator/ . This provides Google Authenticator support via PAM. Google Authenticator + LUKS would be using two-factor authentication to unlock LUKS. LUKS can use PAM as part of it's authentication. PAM can tie into Google Authenticator to provide 2 factor Auth. Google Authenticator + PAM requires access to an unencrypted home directory to work, since it stores an 'rc file' ( rc files are commonly configuration files) Google Authenticator + PAM + LUKS doesn't work 'out of the box' due to the conflicting requirements. On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 2:46 AM, paul g wrote: > David if I set my home search to bing or ixquick does linux mint petra > still have a PAM module. I do not use Google applications or the search > engine. Please explain more about 'Why Google Authenticator' does not work > with a luks drive. > > > Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 23:07:25 -0500 > > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Linux Mint Petra > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > I'm actually not a fan as it creates problems with using google > > authenticator as the rc file is in the home directory while it's > > encrypted and thus can't be checked by the PAM module . . . > > > > On 03/13/2014 08:37 PM, paul g wrote: > > > As a beginning computer user I feel impressed with the 'built in' > > > installation of 'luks' for encrytion. I chose to encrypt my home > > > directory during installation also. If anyone has their security > > > thoughts about 'Luks' or basic encryption feedback. Please feel > > > free to post. > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List > > > - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTIoB9AAoJELWzpBXk2k3w0x0H/Au0OZ0qPPMDhB9oOxePhsr0 > > KM8TPbyOF6YRrHRd7gXSev+W666Pte7nxDueFOJIqSeV8AFBe1E1Hlo1PcLSJcYP > > 4wmdJEwOTiJeRBorv8ot7d4aDaGRPHVVW47327mG9BicSjxqy3N72eNpKXZf2S7a > > Lcv+V2Wkxl4RWHywM9WHeHjW6mykxjHm1JbiGk4fW47xKaWXoNwnrcvAhc+e+jSC > > ag8JGqbzA85pePISSW4C7vLW5iPUJ701a+69zAyZrJq1B1drgC+Pw0bq+J/s/Fc4 > > th3lT1pv+5ySEbu1X38xypmHvp4w8AP0TRDO93IHbd+GayYRlWkQc54jKVUa8A8= > > =RCPG > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sat Mar 15 17:27:00 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 17:27:00 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Experience with Konica Minolta printers. Message-ID: Does anyone have input good or bad on the Konica Minolta printers under Unix/Linux? Your input is appreciated. Thank you, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuporglue at gmail.com Sat Mar 15 18:22:38 2014 From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 18:22:38 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Experience with Konica Minolta printers. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I had a Minolta laser printer a few years ago. It worked but it took a lot of work to get it set up at the time. I think I had to compile the driver myself and do something else to get it to work with CUPS correctly. If you're buying new, I'd go with something else, like an HP, if you can. If you've got a Konica Minolta now, just try plugging it in and see if it works. If it doesn't, post the printer model in your next email. -- Michael Moore On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 5:27 PM, paul g wrote: > Does anyone have input good or bad on the Konica Minolta printers under > Unix/Linux? Your input is appreciated. > > Thank you, > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sat Mar 15 18:34:13 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 18:34:13 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Experience with Konica Minolta printers. In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Thanks for your input Michael. I've been looking on the Konica Minolta website a bit. It look's like Unix/Linux support is not on their top subject matter. I did notice some of their newer small office models have a .ppd file so that would possibly interface with CUPS properly. Thank you for your insight. I saw an older model for sale and I never knew this company 'Konica Minolta' existed so I am curious. Thank you, From: stuporglue at gmail.com Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 18:22:38 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Experience with Konica Minolta printers. I had a Minolta laser printer a few years ago. It worked but it took a lot of work to get it set up at the time. I think I had to compile the driver myself and do something else to get it to work with CUPS correctly. If you're buying new, I'd go with something else, like an HP, if you can. If you've got a Konica Minolta now, just try plugging it in and see if it works. If it doesn't, post the printer model in your next email. -- Michael Moore On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 5:27 PM, paul g wrote: Does anyone have input good or bad on the Konica Minolta printers under Unix/Linux? Your input is appreciated. Thank you, _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sat Mar 15 19:06:20 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:06:20 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Is a DOCSIS 3.0 necessary? Message-ID: I recently purchased my own cable modem because the internet service provider I use was surcharging me a monthly fee for using their cable modem. I am wondering If I could have just purchased a lesser priced DOCSIS 2.0 cable modem? I ended up purchasing a DOCSIS 3.0 cable modem without a built in wireless router. Thank you, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com Sat Mar 15 19:06:37 2014 From: daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com (Dan Armbrust) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:06:37 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Experience with Konica Minolta printers. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5324EB0D.2020506@gmail.com> magicolor 1600W works great - best printer I've ever had. quite cheap for a color laser printer. Works fine under linux... its actually hooked up via USB to my wireless router running Tomato at the moment, and no issues printing from windows or linux to it. Dan From ryanjcole at me.com Sat Mar 15 19:09:52 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:09:52 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Is a DOCSIS 3.0 necessary? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What service level are you paying for from your provider? -- Ryan Coleman > On Mar 15, 2014, at 19:06, paul g wrote: > > I recently purchased my own cable modem because the internet service provider I use was surcharging me a monthly fee for using their cable modem. I am wondering If I could have just purchased a lesser priced DOCSIS 2.0 cable modem? I ended up purchasing a DOCSIS 3.0 cable modem without a built in wireless router. > > Thank you, > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sat Mar 15 19:16:47 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:16:47 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Is a DOCSIS 3.0 necessary? In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: I am currently paying for the very lowest basic internet speed. From: ryanjcole at me.com Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:09:52 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Is a DOCSIS 3.0 necessary? What service level are you paying for from your provider? --Ryan Coleman On Mar 15, 2014, at 19:06, paul g wrote: I recently purchased my own cable modem because the internet service provider I use was surcharging me a monthly fee for using their cable modem. I am wondering If I could have just purchased a lesser priced DOCSIS 2.0 cable modem? I ended up purchasing a DOCSIS 3.0 cable modem without a built in wireless router. Thank you, _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sat Mar 15 19:28:43 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:28:43 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Is a DOCSIS 3.0 necessary? In-Reply-To: References: , , , Message-ID: My download speed on http://www.speedtest.net/ is 11 mbps and my upload speed is 12 mbps. Thank you, no mean to hijack the post. From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:16:47 -0500 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Is a DOCSIS 3.0 necessary? I am currently paying for the very lowest basic internet speed. From: ryanjcole at me.com Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:09:52 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Is a DOCSIS 3.0 necessary? What service level are you paying for from your provider? --Ryan Coleman On Mar 15, 2014, at 19:06, paul g wrote: I recently purchased my own cable modem because the internet service provider I use was surcharging me a monthly fee for using their cable modem. I am wondering If I could have just purchased a lesser priced DOCSIS 2.0 cable modem? I ended up purchasing a DOCSIS 3.0 cable modem without a built in wireless router. Thank you, _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sat Mar 15 19:31:39 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:31:39 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Tomato Firmware on Netgear routers? Message-ID: Is there a way to install Tomato on a Netgear router? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Sat Mar 15 19:34:10 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:34:10 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Is a DOCSIS 3.0 necessary? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <82E76CC1-9B0B-4B0F-81C5-033B17EFA570@me.com> 1) you cannot high jack your own thread and 2) docsis 3 is probably overkill for that service level however it might be required by your provider today or sometime in the future. -- Ryan Coleman > On Mar 15, 2014, at 19:28, paul g wrote: > > My download speed on http://www.speedtest.net/ is 11 mbps and my upload speed is 12 mbps. > > Thank you, > > no mean to hijack the post. > > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:16:47 -0500 > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Is a DOCSIS 3.0 necessary? > > I am currently paying for the very lowest basic internet speed. > > From: ryanjcole at me.com > Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:09:52 -0500 > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Is a DOCSIS 3.0 necessary? > > What service level are you paying for from your provider? > > -- > Ryan Coleman > > On Mar 15, 2014, at 19:06, paul g wrote: > > I recently purchased my own cable modem because the internet service provider I use was surcharging me a monthly fee for using their cable modem. I am wondering If I could have just purchased a lesser priced DOCSIS 2.0 cable modem? I ended up purchasing a DOCSIS 3.0 cable modem without a built in wireless router. > > Thank you, > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sat Mar 15 19:42:52 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:42:52 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Is a DOCSIS 3.0 necessary? In-Reply-To: <82E76CC1-9B0B-4B0F-81C5-033B17EFA570@me.com> References: , , , , <82E76CC1-9B0B-4B0F-81C5-033B17EFA570@me.com> Message-ID: Thank you for your response as always it is well appreciated. Do you have any thoughts about using Open-DNS would that possibly provide an adequate replacement to my internet providers standard dns service? Thank you, From: ryanjcole at me.com Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:34:10 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Is a DOCSIS 3.0 necessary? 1) you cannot high jack your own thread and 2) docsis 3 is probably overkill for that service level however it might be required by your provider today or sometime in the future. --Ryan Coleman On Mar 15, 2014, at 19:28, paul g wrote: My download speed on http://www.speedtest.net/ is 11 mbps and my upload speed is 12 mbps. Thank you, no mean to hijack the post. From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:16:47 -0500 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Is a DOCSIS 3.0 necessary? I am currently paying for the very lowest basic internet speed. From: ryanjcole at me.com Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:09:52 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Is a DOCSIS 3.0 necessary? What service level are you paying for from your provider? --Ryan Coleman On Mar 15, 2014, at 19:06, paul g wrote: I recently purchased my own cable modem because the internet service provider I use was surcharging me a monthly fee for using their cable modem. I am wondering If I could have just purchased a lesser priced DOCSIS 2.0 cable modem? I ended up purchasing a DOCSIS 3.0 cable modem without a built in wireless router. Thank you, _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Sat Mar 15 19:59:50 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:59:50 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Tomato Firmware on Netgear routers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes. Search the tomato site for model compatible with the firmware. On Mar 15, 2014 7:32 PM, "paul g" wrote: > Is there a way to install Tomato on a Netgear router? > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sat Mar 15 20:11:54 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 20:11:54 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Tomato Firmware on Netgear routers? In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: I have searched the Tomato website for compatibility with the Netgear router model WNR854T. No support. I did a bit of simple reading about 2 years ago on Buffalo routers looks like Netgear Routers are closed source. Thank you, Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:59:50 -0500 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Tomato Firmware on Netgear routers? Yes. Search the tomato site for model compatible with the firmware. On Mar 15, 2014 7:32 PM, "paul g" wrote: Is there a way to install Tomato on a Netgear router? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sat Mar 15 20:34:11 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 20:34:11 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Getting started with BSD Message-ID: Would anyone be willing to host a beginners Free BSD class? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From 42dch42 at gmail.com Sun Mar 16 01:23:08 2014 From: 42dch42 at gmail.com (harv) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 01:23:08 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Ping paul g Message-ID: <53254355.88cdb60a.6672.43bd@mx.google.com> Hey Paul, Hope I'm not out of line here but you seem to be about where I was 10-12yrs ago. I bothered lists and forums across the 'net learning my way around but what was most helpful to me was face-time with knowledgeable folks. To that end I would suggest the recently resurrected Northfield linux users group (norlug). They meet weekly at the Hideaway in Northfield- coffeehouse coders- and are starting technical meetings this month. First one is on Raspberry Pi. http://www.norlug.org/ Certainly not trying to dissuade you from posting here just pointing out another helpful option for your quest for knowledge. harv From pj.world at hotmail.com Sun Mar 16 01:37:54 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 01:37:54 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Ping paul g In-Reply-To: <53254355.88cdb60a.6672.43bd@mx.google.com> References: <53254355.88cdb60a.6672.43bd@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Thank you I am sorry to cause a problem I know I ask alot of questions and I am very dumb. > Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 01:23:08 -0500 > From: 42dch42 at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: [tclug-list] Ping paul g > > Hey Paul, > Hope I'm not out of line here but you seem to be about where I was > 10-12yrs ago. > I bothered lists and forums across the 'net learning my way around but > what was most helpful to me was face-time with knowledgeable folks. > > To that end I would suggest the recently resurrected Northfield linux > users group (norlug). > They meet weekly at the Hideaway in Northfield- coffeehouse coders- and > are starting technical meetings this month. First one is on Raspberry > Pi. > > http://www.norlug.org/ > > Certainly not trying to dissuade you from posting here just pointing > out another helpful option for your quest for knowledge. > > harv > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From 42dch42 at gmail.com Sun Mar 16 17:10:06 2014 From: 42dch42 at gmail.com (harv) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 17:10:06 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Ping paul g In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53262147.6a94b60a.6eb0.ffff8da4@mx.google.com> On Sun, 16 Mar 2014 12:00:02 -0500 tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org opined: > From: paul g > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Ping paul g > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thank you I am sorry to cause a problem I know I ask alot of questions and I am very dumb. > > NO! You completely misunderstand my intent of initial post. Probably partially my fault- communication skills not the best. First, if you are causing anyone problems, it certainly isn't me. ;) Second, asking questions on a list designed for the asking and answering of questions can hardly be considered "dumb". Third, the only dumb question is the one that is NOT asked. What I was trying to do- as I stated- was give you another option for quenching your thirst for knowledge. I find asking questions of like-minded individuals in a relaxed environment- preferably over beverages- much more satisfying and in some cases more productive than posting a question to a list then waiting for a reply which may never come. I thought perhaps the same may true for you so pointed out the norlug option. -- harv > > Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 01:23:08 -0500 > > From: 42dch42 at gmail.com > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > Subject: [tclug-list] Ping paul g > > > > Hey Paul, > > Hope I'm not out of line here but you seem to be about where I was > > 10-12yrs ago. > > I bothered lists and forums across the 'net learning my way around but > > what was most helpful to me was face-time with knowledgeable folks. > > > > To that end I would suggest the recently resurrected Northfield linux > > users group (norlug). > > They meet weekly at the Hideaway in Northfield- coffeehouse coders- and > > are starting technical meetings this month. First one is on Raspberry > > Pi. > > > > http://www.norlug.org/ > > > > Certainly not trying to dissuade you from posting here just pointing > > out another helpful option for your quest for knowledge. > > > > harv From david.wagle at gmail.com Sun Mar 16 18:18:44 2014 From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 18:18:44 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS Message-ID: <53263154.5000601@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 https://rms.sexy/ and https://stalman.org say what you want about RMS' ideals and politics, if you use Linux, you are in his debt. Happy b-day to my favorite code gnome. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTJjFUAAoJELWzpBXk2k3wKMAH/0yCKizpJn8N6UTfuRULklwE tVdgJb1ccJPJy0NQWPsPEcQCpXUWvlTt0XEl1mTU1ylvtZ17cfLRNhoyn6VGf6p9 j3ecKXZRcWmZSuwM1TYgOHxEuRBOaaaJxuXGRRDbVl/UN7sci5PzaO5hHdD7QmQ5 6CMd8BGyp06rVMk+Vut+gZ4/bPkCvK6ADxp3fbAqam814iVv7PlJY3X3zW+6qam7 KhQpDsWciItzRha70ObXgRZghmHvWVdMbhcBtA68h+4r4+ek3NHJSZwUyfWZTiKT O8Ng73rL1SpUtInDRFHrBG2CFoCaFQ4JRnD+XaqfTDagMTuLjyft2ll1KB6BqWE= =vPdo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From chapinjeff at gmail.com Sun Mar 16 18:53:25 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 18:53:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS In-Reply-To: <53263154.5000601@gmail.com> References: <53263154.5000601@gmail.com> Message-ID: What's with the cords hanging out of his laptop in many of those photos? On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 6:18 PM, David Wagle wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > https://rms.sexy/ > > and > > https://stalman.org > > say what you want about RMS' ideals and politics, if you use Linux, > you are in his debt. > > Happy b-day to my favorite code gnome. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTJjFUAAoJELWzpBXk2k3wKMAH/0yCKizpJn8N6UTfuRULklwE > tVdgJb1ccJPJy0NQWPsPEcQCpXUWvlTt0XEl1mTU1ylvtZ17cfLRNhoyn6VGf6p9 > j3ecKXZRcWmZSuwM1TYgOHxEuRBOaaaJxuXGRRDbVl/UN7sci5PzaO5hHdD7QmQ5 > 6CMd8BGyp06rVMk+Vut+gZ4/bPkCvK6ADxp3fbAqam814iVv7PlJY3X3zW+6qam7 > KhQpDsWciItzRha70ObXgRZghmHvWVdMbhcBtA68h+4r4+ek3NHJSZwUyfWZTiKT > O8Ng73rL1SpUtInDRFHrBG2CFoCaFQ4JRnD+XaqfTDagMTuLjyft2ll1KB6BqWE= > =vPdo > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Sun Mar 16 19:04:59 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 19:04:59 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS In-Reply-To: <53263154.5000601@gmail.com> References: <53263154.5000601@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4136613E-3AAD-4798-B97F-AAAF8D4F0984@me.com> I never realized Just For Men and engorged stomachs were sexy. I think it should be prefaced with a NSFW tag? On Mar 16, 2014, at 6:18 PM, David Wagle wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > https://rms.sexy/ > > and > > https://stalman.org > > say what you want about RMS' ideals and politics, if you use Linux, > you are in his debt. > > Happy b-day to my favorite code gnome. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTJjFUAAoJELWzpBXk2k3wKMAH/0yCKizpJn8N6UTfuRULklwE > tVdgJb1ccJPJy0NQWPsPEcQCpXUWvlTt0XEl1mTU1ylvtZ17cfLRNhoyn6VGf6p9 > j3ecKXZRcWmZSuwM1TYgOHxEuRBOaaaJxuXGRRDbVl/UN7sci5PzaO5hHdD7QmQ5 > 6CMd8BGyp06rVMk+Vut+gZ4/bPkCvK6ADxp3fbAqam814iVv7PlJY3X3zW+6qam7 > KhQpDsWciItzRha70ObXgRZghmHvWVdMbhcBtA68h+4r4+ek3NHJSZwUyfWZTiKT > O8Ng73rL1SpUtInDRFHrBG2CFoCaFQ4JRnD+XaqfTDagMTuLjyft2ll1KB6BqWE= > =vPdo > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From eminmn at sysmatrix.net Sun Mar 16 19:47:23 2014 From: eminmn at sysmatrix.net (e.c.) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 19:47:23 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS In-Reply-To: References: <53263154.5000601@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 6:53 PM, Jeff Chapin wrote: > What's with the cords hanging out of his laptop in many of those photos? Maybe connected to a satellite phone? Some locations look remote. The loop of photos seem to be in randomized (re-shuffled) order or maybe I didn't have the patience to look at all of them. Btw, I am older than RMS but his feet are even worse than mine. Let's take up a collection to buy him a pair of New Balance mail carrier specials. Thanks for the heads up on the photos. Clooney and Pitt have nothing on RMS, but then I'm a guy. > > > On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 6:18 PM, David Wagle wrote: >> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> https://rms.sexy/ >> >> and >> >> https://stalman.org stallman with 2 els to connect to anything. >> >> say what you want about RMS' ideals and politics, if you use Linux, >> you are in his debt. Who could say anything bad about them other than the Rand or Paul family? Ed, win7 but wannabe Debian user. When distro bloat abates again I'll give Gnu/Linux another shot. >> >> Happy b-day to my favorite code gnome. >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) >> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ >> >> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTJjFUAAoJELWzpBXk2k3wKMAH/0yCKizpJn8N6UTfuRULklwE >> tVdgJb1ccJPJy0NQWPsPEcQCpXUWvlTt0XEl1mTU1ylvtZ17cfLRNhoyn6VGf6p9 >> j3ecKXZRcWmZSuwM1TYgOHxEuRBOaaaJxuXGRRDbVl/UN7sci5PzaO5hHdD7QmQ5 >> 6CMd8BGyp06rVMk+Vut+gZ4/bPkCvK6ADxp3fbAqam814iVv7PlJY3X3zW+6qam7 >> KhQpDsWciItzRha70ObXgRZghmHvWVdMbhcBtA68h+4r4+ek3NHJSZwUyfWZTiKT >> O8Ng73rL1SpUtInDRFHrBG2CFoCaFQ4JRnD+XaqfTDagMTuLjyft2ll1KB6BqWE= >> =vPdo >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From david.wagle at gmail.com Sun Mar 16 21:46:29 2014 From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 21:46:29 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS In-Reply-To: References: <53263154.5000601@gmail.com> Message-ID: If you want to avoid distro bloat -- try Arch . . . it's as minimal as you want it to be. On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 7:47 PM, e.c. wrote: > On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 6:53 PM, Jeff Chapin wrote: > > What's with the cords hanging out of his laptop in many of those photos? > > > Maybe connected to a satellite phone? Some locations look remote. The > loop of photos seem to be in randomized (re-shuffled) order or maybe > I didn't have the patience to look at all of them. Btw, I am older > than RMS but his feet are even worse than mine. Let's take up a > collection to buy him a pair of New Balance mail carrier specials. > Thanks for the heads up on the photos. Clooney and Pitt have nothing > on RMS, but then I'm a guy. > > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 6:18 PM, David Wagle > wrote: > >> > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >> Hash: SHA1 > >> > >> https://rms.sexy/ > >> > >> and > >> > >> https://stalman.org > > > stallman with 2 els to connect to anything. > > >> > >> say what you want about RMS' ideals and politics, if you use Linux, > >> you are in his debt. > > Who could say anything bad about them other than the Rand or Paul family? > > Ed, win7 but wannabe Debian user. When distro bloat abates again I'll > give Gnu/Linux another shot. > > > >> > >> Happy b-day to my favorite code gnome. > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > >> Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > >> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > >> > >> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTJjFUAAoJELWzpBXk2k3wKMAH/0yCKizpJn8N6UTfuRULklwE > >> tVdgJb1ccJPJy0NQWPsPEcQCpXUWvlTt0XEl1mTU1ylvtZ17cfLRNhoyn6VGf6p9 > >> j3ecKXZRcWmZSuwM1TYgOHxEuRBOaaaJxuXGRRDbVl/UN7sci5PzaO5hHdD7QmQ5 > >> 6CMd8BGyp06rVMk+Vut+gZ4/bPkCvK6ADxp3fbAqam814iVv7PlJY3X3zW+6qam7 > >> KhQpDsWciItzRha70ObXgRZghmHvWVdMbhcBtA68h+4r4+ek3NHJSZwUyfWZTiKT > >> O8Ng73rL1SpUtInDRFHrBG2CFoCaFQ4JRnD+XaqfTDagMTuLjyft2ll1KB6BqWE= > >> =vPdo > >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > >> _______________________________________________ > >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Jeff Chapin > > President, CedarLug, retired > > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > > President, UNI Scuba Club > > Senator, NISG, retired > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andyzib at gmail.com Sun Mar 16 21:59:30 2014 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 21:59:30 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Experience with Konica Minolta printers. In-Reply-To: <5324EB0D.2020506@gmail.com> References: <5324EB0D.2020506@gmail.com> Message-ID: For printers, if the print natively speaks PostScript, no problem. Just throw print jobs at it. If you want to used the advanced features of a printer, you can usually extract the PPD from the Windows driver package if the manufacturer doesn't offer a PPD download. If the printer doesn't speak PostScript, it's either going to have GhostScript drivers or it's not going to work at all. Even with GhostScript drivers you're going to be in for a world of hurt if you get too far off the beaten path with uncommon hardware. I deal with two Konica Minotal BizHubs (big copier printer fax machines) at work, and have dealt with similar units at previous employers. I am not exactly a fan. The Mac drivers and PPDs are a mess. Simple things like duplex printing are not available, but if you dig in to the custom options for the printer you'll find two sided printing buried in the options. Support for the latest OS X? Nah, after a couple years don't expect updates, if you're lucky the drivers for an OS or two back will work on the latest version. To work around some of the quirks I have 4 different queues setup on my print server (normal B&W, duplex B&W, normal color, duplex color) All printers suck, Konica Minolta goes the extra mile to suck harder than most, which is too bad. Hardware wise they are great machines, very reliable. If you're dealing with a Windows only office you should have no problem as long as you can tolerate their not intuitive device controls and web configuration. Under the hood, pretty sure the software to run and configure these machines was designed by the same engineers who created the hardware. Nobody with a background in UI created this interface. I hate printers. :) -- Andrew Zbikowski http://andy.zibnet.us/ Are you for good or for awesome? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuporglue at gmail.com Sun Mar 16 23:02:00 2014 From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 23:02:00 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Experience with Konica Minolta printers. In-Reply-To: References: <5324EB0D.2020506@gmail.com> Message-ID: > Support for the latest OS X? Nah, after a couple years don't expect updates, if you're lucky the drivers for an OS or two back will work on the latest version. This is actually how I ended up with the Konica Minolta printer I had. It only supported Windows XP and someone was giving it away for free on Craigslist. This was shortly after Vista came out. I really wanted a laser printer, so I grabbed it. I kept using it for a few years until it needed a new fuser and then bought the HP I have now. -- Michael Moore -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Sun Mar 16 23:04:20 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 23:04:20 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Experience with Konica Minolta printers. In-Reply-To: References: <5324EB0D.2020506@gmail.com> Message-ID: No or limited color support for OS X - but I was able to LPD to the 525c my old employer had. Never with their native drivers though. > On Mar 16, 2014, at 23:02, Michael Moore wrote: > > > Support for the latest OS X? Nah, after a couple years don't expect updates, if you're lucky the drivers for an OS or two back will work on the latest version. > > This is actually how I ended up with the Konica Minolta printer I had. It only supported Windows XP and someone was giving it away for free on Craigslist. This was shortly after Vista came out. > > I really wanted a laser printer, so I grabbed it. I kept using it for a few years until it needed a new fuser and then bought the HP I have now. > > -- > Michael Moore > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jazzyflute at gmail.com Mon Mar 17 09:40:01 2014 From: jazzyflute at gmail.com (Marc Thomas) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2014 09:40:01 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Ping paul g In-Reply-To: <53262147.6a94b60a.6eb0.ffff8da4@mx.google.com> References: <53262147.6a94b60a.6eb0.ffff8da4@mx.google.com> Message-ID: >To that end I would suggest the recently resurrected Northfield linux >users group (norlug). >They meet weekly at the Hideaway in Northfield- coffeehouse coders- and >are starting technical meetings this month. First one is on Raspberry >Pi. Harv, thanks for the NORLUG recognition! >Would anyone be willing to host a beginners Free BSD class? Paul: Great to see that your interested in Free BSD. I am the organizer of the Northfield Linux User Group. While I myself know very little about Free BSD, you are welcome to come to one of our weekly coffee house coders groups, or one of our technical meetings. Perhaps some other members may be able to help you. We meet every Monday evening at The Hideaway in downtown Northfield for some social time. Everyone generally brings projects they are working on, usually code or graphic design stuff but it's whatever you want. We also host technical meetings. Our first one since the group revived is this next Thursday. Perhaps we can look into hosting a Free BSD class at some point. Meeting up with people in person is definitely a valuable experience. When I first began learning Linux (Ubuntu) I was on forums, IRC, and mailing lists for a while before attending my first user group. It can be hard to learn something new when you don't know what questions to ask and what software and resources are available. On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 5:10 PM, harv <42dch42 at gmail.com> wrote: > On Sun, 16 Mar 2014 12:00:02 -0500 > tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org opined: > > From: paul g > > To: TCLUG Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Ping paul g > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > Thank you I am sorry to cause a problem I know I ask alot of questions > and I am very dumb. > > > > > NO! > You completely misunderstand my intent of initial post. > Probably partially my fault- communication skills not the best. > > First, if you are causing anyone problems, it certainly isn't me. ;) > > Second, asking questions on a list designed for the asking and > answering of questions can hardly be considered "dumb". > > Third, the only dumb question is the one that is NOT asked. > > What I was trying to do- as I stated- was give you another option for > quenching your thirst for knowledge. > > I find asking questions of like-minded individuals in a relaxed > environment- preferably over beverages- much more satisfying and in > some cases more productive than posting a question to a list then > waiting for a reply which may never come. > I thought perhaps the same may true for you so pointed out the norlug > option. > > -- > harv > > > > Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 01:23:08 -0500 > > > From: 42dch42 at gmail.com > > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > > Subject: [tclug-list] Ping paul g > > > > > > Hey Paul, > > > Hope I'm not out of line here but you seem to be about where I was > > > 10-12yrs ago. > > > I bothered lists and forums across the 'net learning my way around but > > > what was most helpful to me was face-time with knowledgeable folks. > > > > > > To that end I would suggest the recently resurrected Northfield linux > > > users group (norlug). > > > They meet weekly at the Hideaway in Northfield- coffeehouse coders- and > > > are starting technical meetings this month. First one is on Raspberry > > > Pi. > > > > > > http://www.norlug.org/ > > > > > > Certainly not trying to dissuade you from posting here just pointing > > > out another helpful option for your quest for knowledge. > > > > > > harv > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Website : Google+ : Twitter : GitHub -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rware at capellauniversity.edu Tue Mar 18 13:41:00 2014 From: rware at capellauniversity.edu (Ryan Ware) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 13:41:00 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS In-Reply-To: <53263154.5000601@gmail.com> References: <53263154.5000601@gmail.com> Message-ID: I wonder where we'd be today if HP had just given him the print driver code. On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 6:18 PM, David Wagle wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > https://rms.sexy/ > > and > > https://stalman.org > > say what you want about RMS' ideals and politics, if you use Linux, > you are in his debt. > > Happy b-day to my favorite code gnome. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTJjFUAAoJELWzpBXk2k3wKMAH/0yCKizpJn8N6UTfuRULklwE > tVdgJb1ccJPJy0NQWPsPEcQCpXUWvlTt0XEl1mTU1ylvtZ17cfLRNhoyn6VGf6p9 > j3ecKXZRcWmZSuwM1TYgOHxEuRBOaaaJxuXGRRDbVl/UN7sci5PzaO5hHdD7QmQ5 > 6CMd8BGyp06rVMk+Vut+gZ4/bPkCvK6ADxp3fbAqam814iVv7PlJY3X3zW+6qam7 > KhQpDsWciItzRha70ObXgRZghmHvWVdMbhcBtA68h+4r4+ek3NHJSZwUyfWZTiKT > O8Ng73rL1SpUtInDRFHrBG2CFoCaFQ4JRnD+XaqfTDagMTuLjyft2ll1KB6BqWE= > =vPdo > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlunde at gmail.com Tue Mar 18 16:51:23 2014 From: tlunde at gmail.com (T L) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 16:51:23 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: request for VOIP (SIP) provider recommendations Message-ID: Hi - Thanks for not minding an off-topic post too much. Can anyone provide a recommendation for a residential VOIP provider? I'm thinking one or two lines. Thanks Thomas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erikerik at gmail.com Tue Mar 18 16:59:22 2014 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 16:59:22 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: request for VOIP (SIP) provider recommendations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 4:51 PM, T L wrote: > Can anyone provide a recommendation for a residential VOIP provider? I'm > thinking one or two lines. I've been using voip.ms personally and at work for several years, and have had great luck. You'll need to provide your own SIP (or IAX) equipment. They have a very functional (if not especially nice-looking) web interface to configure call routing, IVRs, voicemail stuff, etc. -Erik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jus at krytosvirus.com Tue Mar 18 21:34:07 2014 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 21:34:07 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: request for VOIP (SIP) provider recommendations Message-ID: <2715j49s08efyk3el3ok0p8b.1395195741411@email.android.com> Ravon is a local company with full services for residential and business users. http://www.ravon.net And http://www.ravon.net/residential.html Clearly I have to suggest Ravon as I work for the ?parent company and am familiar with the service. Not in sales so giving you those links is the extent of my sales pitch. If you want more info let me know.? -------- Original message -------- From: T L Date:03/18/2014 4:51 PM (GMT-06:00) To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: [tclug-list] OT: request for VOIP (SIP) provider recommendations Hi - Thanks for not minding an off-topic post too much. Can anyone provide a recommendation for a residential VOIP provider? I'm thinking one or two lines. Thanks Thomas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From harlan at bloomenterprises.org Tue Mar 18 21:29:13 2014 From: harlan at bloomenterprises.org (Harlan H. Bloom) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 21:29:13 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] OpenVPN using non-standard port In-Reply-To: <11799766.425.1395112642402.JavaMail.harlan@star8> Message-ID: <14739154.869.1395196149578.JavaMail.harlan@star8> Hello Everyone, I'm trying to get an openvpn client to talk with an openvpn server on a non-standard port. The client is CentOS 6.3 running in a VM using VirtualBox. On the "new server" side, from the command line, I can ping the VPN IP and get good responses, I see the tap interface when I do an ifconfig. I'm fairly confident the basics of the VPN should be running. The "new server" in this case is my laptop and the VM's are running directly on this same laptop. Since my laptop is also a client into another production VPN, I need to use a different port to keep the two VPNs from conflicting. Everything works fine until I start using a non-standard port. Here is the remote line on the client that I'm using: remote 10.0.2.2 21194 >From the client, I can ping, ssh and scp to the "new server" without any problems, so the basic network setup should be working just fine. This is a development setup, not a production setup. For initial test purposes, I'm using the same certificates and configuration files. The only real changes are the remote IP's, port and client certificate; only one system, VM or real, is allowed to use a client certificate at a time. I never allow multiple clients to use the same client specific certificate. On a different server that is also running OpenVPN, I have several clients, some of them also running VMs under VirtualBox, without any problems at all. If I'm missing something, please feel free to ask. I really appreciate the help. Harlan... Here is the openvpn.log file from the client (sanitized): Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102154 Current Parameter Settings: Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102373 config = 'horton-client.conf' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102467 mode = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102565 persist_config = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102606 persist_mode = 1 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102620 show_ciphers = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102633 show_digests = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102645 show_engines = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102657 genkey = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102669 key_pass_file = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102681 show_tls_ciphers = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102693 Connection profiles [default]: Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102705 proto = tcp-client Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102717 local = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102729 local_port = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102741 remote = '10.0.2.2' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102753 remote_port = 21194 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102765 remote_float = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102777 bind_defined = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102789 bind_local = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102801 connect_retry_seconds = 5 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102814 connect_timeout = 10 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102826 connect_retry_max = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102838 socks_proxy_server = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102850 socks_proxy_port = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102862 socks_proxy_retry = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102874 tun_mtu = 1500 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102886 tun_mtu_defined = ENABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102903 link_mtu = 1500 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102918 link_mtu_defined = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102926 tun_mtu_extra = 32 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102934 tun_mtu_extra_defined = ENABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102942 mtu_discover_type = -1 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102950 fragment = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102957 mssfix = 1400 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102965 explicit_exit_notification = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102975 Connection profiles END Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102983 remote_random = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102990 ipchange = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102998 dev = 'tap' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103006 dev_type = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103014 dev_node = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103021 lladdr = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103029 topology = 1 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103079 tun_ipv6 = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103119 ifconfig_local = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103129 ifconfig_remote_netmask = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103138 ifconfig_noexec = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103146 ifconfig_nowarn = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103154 ifconfig_ipv6_local = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103161 ifconfig_ipv6_netbits = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103169 ifconfig_ipv6_remote = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103177 shaper = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103202 mtu_test = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103210 mlock = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103218 keepalive_ping = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103225 keepalive_timeout = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103233 inactivity_timeout = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103240 ping_send_timeout = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103252 ping_rec_timeout = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103264 ping_rec_timeout_action = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103275 ping_timer_remote = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103287 remap_sigusr1 = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103298 persist_tun = ENABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103310 persist_local_ip = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103322 persist_remote_ip = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103333 persist_key = ENABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103345 passtos = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103357 resolve_retry_seconds = 1000000000 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103369 username = 'nobody' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103380 groupname = 'nobody' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103391 chroot_dir = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103403 cd_dir = '/etc/openvpn' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103415 writepid = '/var/run/openvpn/horton-client.pid' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103427 up_script = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103438 down_script = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103450 down_pre = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103461 up_restart = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103473 up_delay = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103484 daemon = ENABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103496 inetd = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103507 log = ENABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103519 suppress_timestamps = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103530 nice = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103542 verbosity = 6 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103553 mute = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103565 gremlin = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103577 status_file = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103588 status_file_version = 1 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103600 status_file_update_freq = 60 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103611 occ = ENABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103623 rcvbuf = 65536 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103634 sndbuf = 65536 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103646 mark = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103657 sockflags = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103669 fast_io = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103680 lzo = 7 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103692 route_script = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103703 route_default_gateway = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103715 route_default_metric = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103727 route_noexec = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103739 route_delay = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103750 route_delay_window = 30 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103758 route_delay_defined = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103765 route_nopull = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103773 route_gateway_via_dhcp = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103780 max_routes = 100 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103788 allow_pull_fqdn = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103796 management_addr = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103804 management_port = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103811 management_user_pass = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103819 management_log_history_cache = 250 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103826 management_echo_buffer_size = 100 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103834 management_write_peer_info_file = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103842 management_client_user = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103849 management_client_group = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103857 management_flags = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103864 shared_secret_file = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103872 key_direction = 2 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103880 ciphername_defined = ENABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103887 ciphername = 'DES-EDE3-CBC' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103900 authname_defined = ENABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103908 authname = 'SHA1' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103916 prng_hash = 'SHA1' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103924 prng_nonce_secret_len = 16 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103931 keysize = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103938 engine = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103946 replay = ENABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103953 mute_replay_warnings = ENABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103961 replay_window = 64 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103968 replay_time = 15 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103976 packet_id_file = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103983 use_iv = ENABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103990 test_crypto = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103998 tls_server = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104005 tls_client = ENABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104016 key_method = 2 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104028 ca_file = '/etc/openvpn/horton-client/ca.crt' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104040 ca_path = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104052 dh_file = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104063 cert_file = '/etc/openvpn/horton-client/horton1.crt' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104075 priv_key_file = '/etc/openvpn/horton-client/horton1.key' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104087 pkcs12_file = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104099 cipher_list = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104110 tls_verify = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104122 tls_export_cert = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104133 verify_x509_type = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104145 verify_x509_name = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104157 crl_file = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104168 ns_cert_type = 1 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104180 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104192 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104203 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104215 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104226 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104238 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104249 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104260 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104272 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104283 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104294 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104306 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104317 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104328 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104340 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104351 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104363 remote_cert_eku = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104374 ssl_flags = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104386 tls_timeout = 2 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104397 renegotiate_bytes = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104409 renegotiate_packets = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104420 renegotiate_seconds = 3600 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104431 handshake_window = 60 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104443 transition_window = 3600 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104455 single_session = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104466 push_peer_info = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104477 tls_exit = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104489 tls_auth_file = '/etc/openvpn/horton-client/blmpvt.key' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104501 pkcs11_protected_authentication = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104515 pkcs11_protected_authentication = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104523 pkcs11_protected_authentication = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104531 pkcs11_protected_authentication = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104538 pkcs11_protected_authentication = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104546 pkcs11_protected_authentication = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104554 pkcs11_protected_authentication = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104561 pkcs11_protected_authentication = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104573 pkcs11_protected_authentication = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104581 pkcs11_protected_authentication = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104588 pkcs11_protected_authentication = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104596 pkcs11_protected_authentication = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104604 pkcs11_protected_authentication = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104611 pkcs11_protected_authentication = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104619 pkcs11_protected_authentication = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104626 pkcs11_protected_authentication = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104635 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104643 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104650 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104658 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104665 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104673 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104681 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104688 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104696 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104703 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104711 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104718 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104726 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104734 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104741 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104749 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104756 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104764 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104771 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104782 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104793 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104805 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104817 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104828 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104840 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104852 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104863 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104875 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104886 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104898 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104910 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104921 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104933 pkcs11_pin_cache_period = -1 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104945 pkcs11_id = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104956 pkcs11_id_management = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104985 server_network = 0.0.0.0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105004 server_netmask = 0.0.0.0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105022 server_network_ipv6 = :: Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105035 server_netbits_ipv6 = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105048 server_bridge_ip = 0.0.0.0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105061 server_bridge_netmask = 0.0.0.0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105074 server_bridge_pool_start = 0.0.0.0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105087 server_bridge_pool_end = 0.0.0.0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105099 ifconfig_pool_defined = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105112 ifconfig_pool_start = 0.0.0.0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105125 ifconfig_pool_end = 0.0.0.0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105138 ifconfig_pool_netmask = 0.0.0.0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105150 ifconfig_pool_persist_filename = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105163 ifconfig_pool_persist_refresh_freq = 600 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105175 ifconfig_ipv6_pool_defined = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105187 ifconfig_ipv6_pool_base = :: Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105205 ifconfig_ipv6_pool_netbits = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105217 n_bcast_buf = 256 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105229 tcp_queue_limit = 64 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105240 real_hash_size = 256 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105252 virtual_hash_size = 256 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105264 client_connect_script = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105276 learn_address_script = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105284 client_disconnect_script = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105291 client_config_dir = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105299 ccd_exclusive = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105306 tmp_dir = '/tmp' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105314 push_ifconfig_defined = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105322 push_ifconfig_local = 0.0.0.0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105331 push_ifconfig_remote_netmask = 0.0.0.0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105338 push_ifconfig_ipv6_defined = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105347 push_ifconfig_ipv6_local = ::/0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105354 push_ifconfig_ipv6_remote = :: Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105362 enable_c2c = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105369 duplicate_cn = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105377 cf_max = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105384 cf_per = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105392 max_clients = 1024 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105399 max_routes_per_client = 256 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105407 auth_user_pass_verify_script = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105415 auth_user_pass_verify_script_via_file = DISABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105423 port_share_host = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105430 port_share_port = 0 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105437 client = ENABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105445 pull = ENABLED Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105452 auth_user_pass_file = '[UNDEF]' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105463 OpenVPN 2.3.2 x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu [SSL (OpenSSL)] [LZO] [EPOLL] [PKCS11] [eurephia] [MH] [IPv6] built on Sep 12 2013 Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=106504 Control Channel Authentication: using '/etc/openvpn/horton-client/blmpvt.key' as a OpenVPN static key file Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=106542 Outgoing Control Channel Authentication: Using 160 bit message hash 'SHA1' for HMAC authentication Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=106559 Incoming Control Channel Authentication: Using 160 bit message hash 'SHA1' for HMAC authentication Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=106594 LZO compression initialized Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=106712 Control Channel MTU parms [ L:1576 D:168 EF:68 EB:0 ET:0 EL:0 ] Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=106793 Socket Buffers: R=[87380->131072] S=[16384->131072] Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=106875 Data Channel MTU parms [ L:1576 D:1400 EF:44 EB:135 ET:32 EL:0 AF:3/1 ] Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=106896 Local Options String: 'V4,dev-type tap,link-mtu 1576,tun-mtu 1532,proto TCPv4_CLIENT,comp-lzo,keydir 1,cipher DES-EDE3-CBC,auth SHA1,keysize 192,tls-auth,key-method 2,tls-client' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=106904 Expected Remote Options String: 'V4,dev-type tap,link-mtu 1576,tun-mtu 1532,proto TCPv4_SERVER,comp-lzo,keydir 0,cipher DES-EDE3-CBC,auth SHA1,keysize 192,tls-auth,key-method 2,tls-server' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=106928 Local Options hash (VER=V4): '89f33c77' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=106943 Expected Remote Options hash (VER=V4): '9de5f9b6' Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=111529 NOTE: UID/GID downgrade will be delayed because of --client, --pull, or --up-delay Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=111651 Attempting to establish TCP connection with [AF_INET]10.0.2.2:21194 [nonblock] Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=114695 TCP: connect to [AF_INET]10.0.2.2:21194 failed, will try again in 5 seconds: Permission denied Tue Mar 18 21:21:22 2014 us=116295 TCP: connect to [AF_INET]10.0.2.2:21194 failed, will try again in 5 seconds: Permission denied Tue Mar 18 21:21:27 2014 us=117142 TCP: connect to [AF_INET]10.0.2.2:21194 failed, will try again in 5 seconds: Permission denied Tue Mar 18 21:21:32 2014 us=118006 TCP: connect to [AF_INET]10.0.2.2:21194 failed, will try again in 5 seconds: Permission denied Tue Mar 18 21:21:32 2014 us=634195 SIGTERM[hard,init_instance] received, process exiting -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.a.frisk at gmail.com Tue Mar 18 22:29:25 2014 From: john.a.frisk at gmail.com (John Frisk) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 22:29:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OpenVPN using non-standard port In-Reply-To: <14739154.869.1395196149578.JavaMail.harlan@star8> References: <11799766.425.1395112642402.JavaMail.harlan@star8> <14739154.869.1395196149578.JavaMail.harlan@star8> Message-ID: If I understand your email correctly, if you use the standard port of 1194 (or don't specify) the link works but specifying the nonstandard port of 21194 doesn't work. It looks like if the file you uploaded is the client side, it is trying to open a TCP port. By default OpenVPN listens only on UDP. I'm not sure the version you are using on both client and server, but you may want to verify that you either use TCP or UDP on both the client and server in the config file. I would recommend UDP since it can recover TCP encapsulated packets with the tun type adapter better. On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 9:29 PM, Harlan H. Bloom < harlan at bloomenterprises.org> wrote: > Hello Everyone, > I'm trying to get an openvpn client to talk with an openvpn server on a > non-standard port. The client is CentOS 6.3 running in a VM using > VirtualBox. > > On the "new server" side, from the command line, I can ping the VPN IP > and get good responses, I see the tap interface when I do an ifconfig. I'm > fairly confident the basics of the VPN should be running. The "new server" > in this case is my laptop and the VM's are running directly on this same > laptop. Since my laptop is also a client into another production VPN, I > need to use a different port to keep the two VPNs from conflicting. > > Everything works fine until I start using a non-standard port. Here is > the remote line on the client that I'm using: > > remote 10.0.2.2 21194 > > From the client, I can ping, ssh and scp to the "new server" without any > problems, so the basic network setup should be working just fine. This is > a development setup, not a production setup. > > For initial test purposes, I'm using the same certificates and > configuration files. The only real changes are the remote IP's, port and > client certificate; only one system, VM or real, is allowed to use a client > certificate at a time. I never allow multiple clients to use the same > client specific certificate. > > On a different server that is also running OpenVPN, I have several > clients, some of them also running VMs under VirtualBox, without any > problems at all. > > If I'm missing something, please feel free to ask. > > I really appreciate the help. > > Harlan... > > Here is the openvpn.log file from the client (sanitized): > > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102154 Current Parameter Settings: > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102373 config = 'horton-client.conf' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102467 mode = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102565 persist_config = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102606 persist_mode = 1 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102620 show_ciphers = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102633 show_digests = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102645 show_engines = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102657 genkey = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102669 key_pass_file = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102681 show_tls_ciphers = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102693 Connection profiles [default]: > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102705 proto = tcp-client > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102717 local = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102729 local_port = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102741 remote = '10.0.2.2' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102753 remote_port = 21194 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102765 remote_float = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102777 bind_defined = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102789 bind_local = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102801 connect_retry_seconds = 5 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102814 connect_timeout = 10 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102826 connect_retry_max = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102838 socks_proxy_server = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102850 socks_proxy_port = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102862 socks_proxy_retry = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102874 tun_mtu = 1500 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102886 tun_mtu_defined = ENABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102903 link_mtu = 1500 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102918 link_mtu_defined = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102926 tun_mtu_extra = 32 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102934 tun_mtu_extra_defined = ENABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102942 mtu_discover_type = -1 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102950 fragment = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102957 mssfix = 1400 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102965 explicit_exit_notification = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102975 Connection profiles END > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102983 remote_random = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102990 ipchange = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=102998 dev = 'tap' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103006 dev_type = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103014 dev_node = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103021 lladdr = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103029 topology = 1 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103079 tun_ipv6 = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103119 ifconfig_local = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103129 ifconfig_remote_netmask = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103138 ifconfig_noexec = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103146 ifconfig_nowarn = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103154 ifconfig_ipv6_local = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103161 ifconfig_ipv6_netbits = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103169 ifconfig_ipv6_remote = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103177 shaper = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103202 mtu_test = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103210 mlock = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103218 keepalive_ping = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103225 keepalive_timeout = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103233 inactivity_timeout = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103240 ping_send_timeout = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103252 ping_rec_timeout = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103264 ping_rec_timeout_action = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103275 ping_timer_remote = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103287 remap_sigusr1 = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103298 persist_tun = ENABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103310 persist_local_ip = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103322 persist_remote_ip = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103333 persist_key = ENABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103345 passtos = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103357 resolve_retry_seconds = 1000000000 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103369 username = 'nobody' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103380 groupname = 'nobody' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103391 chroot_dir = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103403 cd_dir = '/etc/openvpn' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103415 writepid = > '/var/run/openvpn/horton-client.pid' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103427 up_script = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103438 down_script = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103450 down_pre = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103461 up_restart = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103473 up_delay = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103484 daemon = ENABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103496 inetd = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103507 log = ENABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103519 suppress_timestamps = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103530 nice = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103542 verbosity = 6 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103553 mute = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103565 gremlin = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103577 status_file = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103588 status_file_version = 1 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103600 status_file_update_freq = 60 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103611 occ = ENABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103623 rcvbuf = 65536 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103634 sndbuf = 65536 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103646 mark = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103657 sockflags = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103669 fast_io = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103680 lzo = 7 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103692 route_script = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103703 route_default_gateway = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103715 route_default_metric = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103727 route_noexec = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103739 route_delay = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103750 route_delay_window = 30 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103758 route_delay_defined = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103765 route_nopull = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103773 route_gateway_via_dhcp = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103780 max_routes = 100 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103788 allow_pull_fqdn = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103796 management_addr = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103804 management_port = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103811 management_user_pass = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103819 management_log_history_cache = 250 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103826 management_echo_buffer_size = 100 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103834 management_write_peer_info_file = > '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103842 management_client_user = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103849 management_client_group = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103857 management_flags = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103864 shared_secret_file = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103872 key_direction = 2 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103880 ciphername_defined = ENABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103887 ciphername = 'DES-EDE3-CBC' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103900 authname_defined = ENABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103908 authname = 'SHA1' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103916 prng_hash = 'SHA1' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103924 prng_nonce_secret_len = 16 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103931 keysize = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103938 engine = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103946 replay = ENABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103953 mute_replay_warnings = ENABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103961 replay_window = 64 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103968 replay_time = 15 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103976 packet_id_file = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103983 use_iv = ENABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103990 test_crypto = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=103998 tls_server = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104005 tls_client = ENABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104016 key_method = 2 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104028 ca_file = > '/etc/openvpn/horton-client/ca.crt' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104040 ca_path = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104052 dh_file = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104063 cert_file = > '/etc/openvpn/horton-client/horton1.crt' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104075 priv_key_file = > '/etc/openvpn/horton-client/horton1.key' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104087 pkcs12_file = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104099 cipher_list = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104110 tls_verify = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104122 tls_export_cert = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104133 verify_x509_type = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104145 verify_x509_name = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104157 crl_file = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104168 ns_cert_type = 1 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104180 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104192 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104203 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104215 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104226 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104238 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104249 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104260 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104272 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104283 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104294 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104306 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104317 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104328 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104340 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104351 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104363 remote_cert_eku = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104374 ssl_flags = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104386 tls_timeout = 2 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104397 renegotiate_bytes = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104409 renegotiate_packets = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104420 renegotiate_seconds = 3600 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104431 handshake_window = 60 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104443 transition_window = 3600 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104455 single_session = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104466 push_peer_info = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104477 tls_exit = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104489 tls_auth_file = > '/etc/openvpn/horton-client/blmpvt.key' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104501 pkcs11_protected_authentication = > DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104515 pkcs11_protected_authentication = > DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104523 pkcs11_protected_authentication = > DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104531 pkcs11_protected_authentication = > DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104538 pkcs11_protected_authentication = > DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104546 pkcs11_protected_authentication = > DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104554 pkcs11_protected_authentication = > DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104561 pkcs11_protected_authentication = > DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104573 pkcs11_protected_authentication = > DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104581 pkcs11_protected_authentication = > DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104588 pkcs11_protected_authentication = > DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104596 pkcs11_protected_authentication = > DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104604 pkcs11_protected_authentication = > DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104611 pkcs11_protected_authentication = > DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104619 pkcs11_protected_authentication = > DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104626 pkcs11_protected_authentication = > DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104635 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104643 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104650 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104658 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104665 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104673 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104681 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104688 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104696 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104703 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104711 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104718 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104726 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104734 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104741 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104749 pkcs11_private_mode = 00000000 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104756 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104764 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104771 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104782 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104793 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104805 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104817 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104828 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104840 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104852 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104863 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104875 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104886 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104898 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104910 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104921 pkcs11_cert_private = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104933 pkcs11_pin_cache_period = -1 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104945 pkcs11_id = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104956 pkcs11_id_management = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=104985 server_network = 0.0.0.0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105004 server_netmask = 0.0.0.0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105022 server_network_ipv6 = :: > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105035 server_netbits_ipv6 = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105048 server_bridge_ip = 0.0.0.0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105061 server_bridge_netmask = 0.0.0.0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105074 server_bridge_pool_start = 0.0.0.0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105087 server_bridge_pool_end = 0.0.0.0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105099 ifconfig_pool_defined = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105112 ifconfig_pool_start = 0.0.0.0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105125 ifconfig_pool_end = 0.0.0.0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105138 ifconfig_pool_netmask = 0.0.0.0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105150 ifconfig_pool_persist_filename = > '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105163 ifconfig_pool_persist_refresh_freq = > 600 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105175 ifconfig_ipv6_pool_defined = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105187 ifconfig_ipv6_pool_base = :: > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105205 ifconfig_ipv6_pool_netbits = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105217 n_bcast_buf = 256 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105229 tcp_queue_limit = 64 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105240 real_hash_size = 256 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105252 virtual_hash_size = 256 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105264 client_connect_script = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105276 learn_address_script = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105284 client_disconnect_script = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105291 client_config_dir = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105299 ccd_exclusive = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105306 tmp_dir = '/tmp' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105314 push_ifconfig_defined = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105322 push_ifconfig_local = 0.0.0.0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105331 push_ifconfig_remote_netmask = 0.0.0.0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105338 push_ifconfig_ipv6_defined = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105347 push_ifconfig_ipv6_local = ::/0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105354 push_ifconfig_ipv6_remote = :: > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105362 enable_c2c = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105369 duplicate_cn = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105377 cf_max = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105384 cf_per = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105392 max_clients = 1024 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105399 max_routes_per_client = 256 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105407 auth_user_pass_verify_script = > '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105415 auth_user_pass_verify_script_via_file > = DISABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105423 port_share_host = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105430 port_share_port = 0 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105437 client = ENABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105445 pull = ENABLED > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105452 auth_user_pass_file = '[UNDEF]' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=105463 OpenVPN 2.3.2 x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu > [SSL (OpenSSL)] [LZO] [EPOLL] [PKCS11] [eurephia] [MH] [IPv6] built on Sep > 12 2013 > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=106504 Control Channel Authentication: using > '/etc/openvpn/horton-client/blmpvt.key' as a OpenVPN static key file > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=106542 Outgoing Control Channel > Authentication: Using 160 bit message hash 'SHA1' for HMAC authentication > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=106559 Incoming Control Channel > Authentication: Using 160 bit message hash 'SHA1' for HMAC authentication > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=106594 LZO compression initialized > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=106712 Control Channel MTU parms [ L:1576 > D:168 EF:68 EB:0 ET:0 EL:0 ] > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=106793 Socket Buffers: R=[87380->131072] > S=[16384->131072] > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=106875 Data Channel MTU parms [ L:1576 D:1400 > EF:44 EB:135 ET:32 EL:0 AF:3/1 ] > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=106896 Local Options String: 'V4,dev-type > tap,link-mtu 1576,tun-mtu 1532,proto TCPv4_CLIENT,comp-lzo,keydir 1,cipher > DES-EDE3-CBC,auth SHA1,keysize 192,tls-auth,key-method 2,tls-client' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=106904 Expected Remote Options String: > 'V4,dev-type tap,link-mtu 1576,tun-mtu 1532,proto > TCPv4_SERVER,comp-lzo,keydir 0,cipher DES-EDE3-CBC,auth SHA1,keysize > 192,tls-auth,key-method 2,tls-server' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=106928 Local Options hash (VER=V4): '89f33c77' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=106943 Expected Remote Options hash (VER=V4): > '9de5f9b6' > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=111529 NOTE: UID/GID downgrade will be delayed > because of --client, --pull, or --up-delay > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=111651 Attempting to establish TCP connection > with [AF_INET]10.0.2.2:21194 [nonblock] > Tue Mar 18 21:21:17 2014 us=114695 TCP: connect to [AF_INET]10.0.2.2:21194failed, will try again in 5 seconds: Permission denied > Tue Mar 18 21:21:22 2014 us=116295 TCP: connect to [AF_INET]10.0.2.2:21194failed, will try again in 5 seconds: Permission denied > Tue Mar 18 21:21:27 2014 us=117142 TCP: connect to [AF_INET]10.0.2.2:21194failed, will try again in 5 seconds: Permission denied > Tue Mar 18 21:21:32 2014 us=118006 TCP: connect to [AF_INET]10.0.2.2:21194failed, will try again in 5 seconds: Permission denied > Tue Mar 18 21:21:32 2014 us=634195 SIGTERM[hard,init_instance] received, > process exiting > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erikerik at gmail.com Tue Mar 18 22:39:18 2014 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 22:39:18 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OpenVPN using non-standard port In-Reply-To: References: <11799766.425.1395112642402.JavaMail.harlan@star8> <14739154.869.1395196149578.JavaMail.harlan@star8> Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 10:29 PM, John Frisk wrote: > I would recommend UDP since it can recover TCP encapsulated packets with > the tun type adapter better. Yup. TCP-in-TCP should only be used as an absolute last resort if UDP isn't an option. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Wed Mar 19 04:11:22 2014 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 04:11:22 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: request for VOIP (SIP) provider recommendations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: google voice via simonics, the price is right (free), and it works for me, reliably. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sfertch at gmail.com Wed Mar 19 13:41:27 2014 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 13:41:27 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: request for VOIP (SIP) provider recommendations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mar 19, 2014 4:11 AM, "gregrwm" wrote: > > google voice via simonics, the price is right (free), and it works for me, reliably. > Just saw this: http://simonics.com/2013/11/google-voice-update/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Mar 19 15:11:49 2014 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 15:11:49 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS In-Reply-To: References: <53263154.5000601@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Mar 2014, Ryan Ware wrote: > I wonder where we'd be today if HP had just given him the print driver code. Ha! Well, either we would have continued with open software sharing and not needed a free-software movement, or someone else, some other company, would have offended Stallman and he would have started the movement at that time. By the way, it was a Xerox printer. Here's the story: http://oreilly.com/openbook/freedom/ch01.html Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Mar 19 15:16:05 2014 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 15:16:05 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS In-Reply-To: <4136613E-3AAD-4798-B97F-AAAF8D4F0984@me.com> References: <53263154.5000601@gmail.com> <4136613E-3AAD-4798-B97F-AAAF8D4F0984@me.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Mar 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote: > On Mar 16, 2014, at 6:18 PM, David Wagle wrote: >> >> https://rms.sexy/ >> >> and >> >> https://stallman.org > > > I never realized Just For Men and engorged stomachs were sexy. > > I think it should be prefaced with a NSFW tag? I think the .sexy TLD ought to be a pretty good clue! Hey, I think it's great that someone thinks he's sexy. I guess there's someone out there for everyone. FWIW, I don't see any sign of Just For Men there -- he has gray in a lot of places on his head hair and beard. Mike From lkateley at kateley.com Wed Mar 19 15:24:26 2014 From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 15:24:26 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS In-Reply-To: References: <53263154.5000601@gmail.com> <4136613E-3AAD-4798-B97F-AAAF8D4F0984@me.com> Message-ID: <5329FCFA.5090901@kateley.com> I don't know what is weirder, the fact that there is a slide show of him typing in places around the world called "sexy" or the fact that I watched the whole thing :) lk On 3/19/14, 3:16 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Sun, 16 Mar 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote: > >> On Mar 16, 2014, at 6:18 PM, David Wagle wrote: >>> >>> https://rms.sexy/ >>> >>> and >>> >>> https://stallman.org >> >> >> I never realized Just For Men and engorged stomachs were sexy. >> >> I think it should be prefaced with a NSFW tag... > > I think the .sexy TLD ought to be a pretty good clue! Hey, I think > it's great that someone thinks he's sexy. I guess there's someone out > there for everyone. > > FWIW, I don't see any sign of Just For Men there -- he has gray in a > lot of places on his head hair and beard. > > Mike > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Mar 19 17:37:54 2014 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 17:37:54 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS In-Reply-To: <5329FCFA.5090901@kateley.com> References: <53263154.5000601@gmail.com> <4136613E-3AAD-4798-B97F-AAAF8D4F0984@me.com> <5329FCFA.5090901@kateley.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Mar 2014, Linda Kateley wrote: > I don't know what is weirder, the fact that there is a slide show of him > typing in places around the world called "sexy" or the fact that I > watched the whole thing :) It was pretty short, so I saw all of it, too. The thing that would be weird is if you watched it twice. ;-) Mike From harlan at bloomenterprises.org Wed Mar 19 20:55:17 2014 From: harlan at bloomenterprises.org (Harlan H. Bloom) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 20:55:17 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] [SOLVED] OpenVPN using non-standard port In-Reply-To: References: <11799766.425.1395112642402.JavaMail.harlan@star8> <14739154.869.1395196149578.JavaMail.harlan@star8> Message-ID: <32810102.1173.1395280513282.JavaMail.harlan@star8> UDP did the trick. Thanks you both for your assistance! Harlan... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erik Anderson" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2014 10:39:18 PM Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OpenVPN using non-standard port On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 10:29 PM, John Frisk < john.a.frisk at gmail.com > wrote: I would recommend UDP since it can recover TCP encapsulated packets with the tun type adapter better. Yup. TCP-in-TCP should only be used as an absolute last resort if UDP isn't an option. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Wed Mar 19 22:05:25 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 22:05:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS In-Reply-To: References: <53263154.5000601@gmail.com>, <4136613E-3AAD-4798-B97F-AAAF8D4F0984@me.com>, , <5329FCFA.5090901@kateley.com>, Message-ID: Mocking RMS seems low; I find the topics and passion about the operating system relevant to some form of respect. > Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 17:37:54 -0500 > From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS > > On Wed, 19 Mar 2014, Linda Kateley wrote: > > > I don't know what is weirder, the fact that there is a slide show of him > > typing in places around the world called "sexy" or the fact that I > > watched the whole thing :) > > It was pretty short, so I saw all of it, too. The thing that would be > weird is if you watched it twice. ;-) > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com Wed Mar 19 22:35:32 2014 From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (kelly) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 22:35:32 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS References: <53263154.5000601@gmail.com> <4136613E-3AAD-4798-B97F-AAAF8D4F0984@me.com> <5329FCFA.5090901@kateley.com> Message-ID: <532A6204-0006F024@penguinpackets.com> Mocking RMS like this is a style of zen. ?I think even RMS would appreciate it (once he was past the point of bewilderment).? > Wed Mar 19 2014 10:05:25 PM CDT from "paul g" >Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS > > > Mocking RMS seems low; I find the topics and passion about the operating >system relevant to some form of respect. > > > Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 17:37:54 -0500 >> From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS >> >> On Wed, 19 Mar 2014, Linda Kateley wrote: >> >> > I don't know what is weirder, the fact that there is a slide show of him > >> > typing in places around the world called "sexy" or the fact that I >> > watched the whole thing :) >> >> It was pretty short, so I saw all of it, too. The thing that would be >> weird is if you watched it twice. ;-) >> >> Mike >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > (, 0 bytes) [View| Download] > ? > > > > > > ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Mar 19 22:51:25 2014 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 22:51:25 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS In-Reply-To: References: <53263154.5000601@gmail.com>, <4136613E-3AAD-4798-B97F-AAAF8D4F0984@me.com>, , <5329FCFA.5090901@kateley.com>, Message-ID: He gets a lot of respect from us, but he also has a sense of humor. I don't know who made rms.sexy or why they made it, but I don't think it was meant to evoke an outpouring of respect. We aren't mocking him but we are laughing at the web page. I'm pretty sure that's what they were shooting for. Mike On Wed, 19 Mar 2014, paul g wrote: > Mocking RMS seems low; I find the topics and passion about the operating > system relevant to some form of respect. > >> Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 17:37:54 -0500 >> From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS >> >> On Wed, 19 Mar 2014, Linda Kateley wrote: >> >>> I don't know what is weirder, the fact that there is a slide show of him >>> typing in places around the world called "sexy" or the fact that I >>> watched the whole thing :) >> >> It was pretty short, so I saw all of it, too. The thing that would be >> weird is if you watched it twice. ;-) >> >> Mike >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From ryanjcole at me.com Wed Mar 19 22:54:20 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 22:54:20 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS In-Reply-To: References: <53263154.5000601@gmail.com> <4136613E-3AAD-4798-B97F-AAAF8D4F0984@me.com> <5329FCFA.5090901@kateley.com> Message-ID: <1C9AC7F0-BF60-4A23-84CD-03F249554BD4@me.com> Someone from the Netherlands, according to the whois record? Domain Name:rms.sexy Domain ID:DO_6a14351607e803e7f5b23b7de5865067-UR WHOIS Server: whois.uniregistry.net Referral URL: http://whois.uniregistry.net Updated Date: 2014-03-04T11:42:01.709Z Creation Date: 2014-02-27T11:42:01.625Z Registry Expiry Date: 2015-02-27T11:42:01.625Z Sponsoring Registrar: Gandi SAS Sponsoring Registrar ID: 81 Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID: 81 Domain Status: ok Registrant ID: bb6477-gandi Registrant Name: Bas Bieling Registrant Street: Jonathan Swiftlaan 2 Registrant City: Eindhoven Registrant Postal Code: 5629 MR Registrant Country: NL Registrant Phone: +31.402903336 Registrant Email: bb652b37da832d3d25e8a07f1d866dc5-1678621 at contact.gandi.net Admin ID: bb6477-gandi Admin Name: Bas Bieling Admin Street: Jonathan Swiftlaan 2 Admin City: Eindhoven Admin Postal Code: 5629 MR Admin Country: NL Admin Phone: +31.402903336 Admin Email: bb652b37da832d3d25e8a07f1d866dc5-1678621 at contact.gandi.net Tech ID: bb6477-gandi Tech Name: Bas Bieling Tech Street: Jonathan Swiftlaan 2 Tech City: Eindhoven Tech Postal Code: 5629 MR Tech Country: NL Tech Phone: +31.402903336 Tech Email: bb652b37da832d3d25e8a07f1d866dc5-1678621 at contact.gandi.net Billing ID: bb6477-gandi Billing Name: Bas Bieling Billing Street: Jonathan Swiftlaan 2 Billing City: Eindhoven Billing Postal Code: 5629 MR Billing Country: NL Billing Phone: +31.402903336 Billing Email: bb652b37da832d3d25e8a07f1d866dc5-1678621 at contact.gandi.net Name Server:b.dns.gandi.net Name Server:c.dns.gandi.net Name Server:a.dns.gandi.net DNSSEC: unsigned >>> Last update of WHOIS database: 2014-03-20T03:52:28.917Z <<< On Mar 19, 2014, at 10:51 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > He gets a lot of respect from us, but he also has a sense of humor. I don't know who made rms.sexy or why they made it, but I don't think it was meant to evoke an outpouring of respect. We aren't mocking him but we are laughing at the web page. I'm pretty sure that's what they were shooting for. > > Mike > > > On Wed, 19 Mar 2014, paul g wrote: > >> Mocking RMS seems low; I find the topics and passion about the operating system relevant to some form of respect. >> >>> Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 17:37:54 -0500 >>> From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS >>> >>> On Wed, 19 Mar 2014, Linda Kateley wrote: >>> >>>> I don't know what is weirder, the fact that there is a slide show of him >>>> typing in places around the world called "sexy" or the fact that I >>>> watched the whole thing :) >>> >>> It was pretty short, so I saw all of it, too. The thing that would be >>> weird is if you watched it twice. ;-) >>> >>> Mike >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Wed Mar 19 23:07:46 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 23:07:46 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS In-Reply-To: <1C9AC7F0-BF60-4A23-84CD-03F249554BD4@me.com> References: <53263154.5000601@gmail.com>, <4136613E-3AAD-4798-B97F-AAAF8D4F0984@me.com>, , <5329FCFA.5090901@kateley.com>, , , , <1C9AC7F0-BF60-4A23-84CD-03F249554BD4@me.com> Message-ID: Why laugh at someone who is trying to compute. Code is code and RMS may not be sexy. I appreciate the freedom that GNU/UNIX/Linux gives in order to think freely. From: ryanjcole at me.com Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 22:54:20 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS Someone from the Netherlands, according to the whois record? Domain Name:rms.sexyDomain ID:DO_6a14351607e803e7f5b23b7de5865067-URWHOIS Server: whois.uniregistry.netReferral URL: http://whois.uniregistry.netUpdated Date: 2014-03-04T11:42:01.709ZCreation Date: 2014-02-27T11:42:01.625ZRegistry Expiry Date: 2015-02-27T11:42:01.625ZSponsoring Registrar: Gandi SASSponsoring Registrar ID: 81Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID: 81Domain Status: okRegistrant ID: bb6477-gandiRegistrant Name: Bas BielingRegistrant Street: Jonathan Swiftlaan 2Registrant City: EindhovenRegistrant Postal Code: 5629 MRRegistrant Country: NLRegistrant Phone: +31.402903336Registrant Email: bb652b37da832d3d25e8a07f1d866dc5-1678621 at contact.gandi.netAdmin ID: bb6477-gandiAdmin Name: Bas BielingAdmin Street: Jonathan Swiftlaan 2Admin City: EindhovenAdmin Postal Code: 5629 MRAdmin Country: NLAdmin Phone: +31.402903336Admin Email: bb652b37da832d3d25e8a07f1d866dc5-1678621 at contact.gandi.netTech ID: bb6477-gandiTech Name: Bas BielingTech Street: Jonathan Swiftlaan 2Tech City: EindhovenTech Postal Code: 5629 MRTech Country: NLTech Phone: +31.402903336Tech Email: bb652b37da832d3d25e8a07f1d866dc5-1678621 at contact.gandi.netBilling ID: bb6477-gandiBilling Name: Bas BielingBilling Street: Jonathan Swiftlaan 2Billing City: EindhovenBilling Postal Code: 5629 MRBilling Country: NLBilling Phone: +31.402903336Billing Email: bb652b37da832d3d25e8a07f1d866dc5-1678621 at contact.gandi.netName Server:b.dns.gandi.netName Server:c.dns.gandi.netName Server:a.dns.gandi.netDNSSEC: unsigned >>> Last update of WHOIS database: 2014-03-20T03:52:28.917Z <<< On Mar 19, 2014, at 10:51 PM, Mike Miller wrote:He gets a lot of respect from us, but he also has a sense of humor. I don't know who made rms.sexy or why they made it, but I don't think it was meant to evoke an outpouring of respect. We aren't mocking him but we are laughing at the web page. I'm pretty sure that's what they were shooting for. Mike On Wed, 19 Mar 2014, paul g wrote: Mocking RMS seems low; I find the topics and passion about the operating system relevant to some form of respect. Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 17:37:54 -0500 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS On Wed, 19 Mar 2014, Linda Kateley wrote: I don't know what is weirder, the fact that there is a slide show of him typing in places around the world called "sexy" or the fact that I watched the whole thing :) It was pretty short, so I saw all of it, too. The thing that would be weird is if you watched it twice. ;-) Mike _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Wed Mar 19 23:11:34 2014 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 23:11:34 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS In-Reply-To: References: <53263154.5000601@gmail.com>, <4136613E-3AAD-4798-B97F-AAAF8D4F0984@me.com>, , <5329FCFA.5090901@kateley.com>, , , , <1C9AC7F0-BF60-4A23-84CD-03F249554BD4@me.com> Message-ID: Again, RMS is the kind of person who contacted our group, and tried to browbeat us into changing our name from The Twin Cities Linux User's Group to The Twin Cities GNU/Linux User's Group. I think we're allowed to laugh at him a bit. On Wed, 19 Mar 2014, paul g wrote: > Why laugh at someone who is trying to compute. Code is code and RMS may not > be sexy. I appreciate the freedom that GNU/UNIX/Linux gives in order to > think freely. > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > From: ryanjcole at me.com > Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 22:54:20 -0500 > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS > > Someone from the Netherlands, according to the whois record? > Domain Name:rms.sexy > Domain ID:DO_6a14351607e803e7f5b23b7de5865067-UR > WHOIS Server: whois.uniregistry.net > Referral URL: http://whois.uniregistry.net > Updated Date: 2014-03-04T11:42:01.709Z > Creation Date: 2014-02-27T11:42:01.625Z > Registry Expiry Date: 2015-02-27T11:42:01.625Z > Sponsoring Registrar: Gandi SAS > Sponsoring Registrar ID: 81 > Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID: 81 > Domain Status: ok > Registrant ID: bb6477-gandi > Registrant Name: Bas Bieling > Registrant Street: Jonathan Swiftlaan 2 > Registrant City: Eindhoven > Registrant Postal Code: 5629 MR > Registrant Country: NL > Registrant Phone: +31.402903336 > Registrant Email: bb652b37da832d3d25e8a07f1d866dc5-1678621 at contact.gandi.net > Admin ID: bb6477-gandi > Admin Name: Bas Bieling > Admin Street: Jonathan Swiftlaan 2 > Admin City: Eindhoven > Admin Postal Code: 5629 MR > Admin Country: NL > Admin Phone: +31.402903336 > Admin Email: bb652b37da832d3d25e8a07f1d866dc5-1678621 at contact.gandi.net > Tech ID: bb6477-gandi > Tech Name: Bas Bieling > Tech Street: Jonathan Swiftlaan 2 > Tech City: Eindhoven > Tech Postal Code: 5629 MR > Tech Country: NL > Tech Phone: +31.402903336 > Tech Email: bb652b37da832d3d25e8a07f1d866dc5-1678621 at contact.gandi.net > Billing ID: bb6477-gandi > Billing Name: Bas Bieling > Billing Street: Jonathan Swiftlaan 2 > Billing City: Eindhoven > Billing Postal Code: 5629 MR > Billing Country: NL > Billing Phone: +31.402903336 > Billing Email: bb652b37da832d3d25e8a07f1d866dc5-1678621 at contact.gandi.net > Name Server:b.dns.gandi.net > Name Server:c.dns.gandi.net > Name Server:a.dns.gandi.net > DNSSEC: unsigned > > >>> Last update of WHOIS database: 2014-03-20T03:52:28.917Z <<< > > > On Mar 19, 2014, at 10:51 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > > He gets a lot of respect from us, but he also has a sense of > humor. ?I don't know who made rms.sexy or why they made it, but > I don't think it was meant to evoke an outpouring of respect. > ?We aren't mocking him but we are laughing at the web page. ?I'm > pretty sure that's what they were shooting for. > > Mike > > > On Wed, 19 Mar 2014, paul g wrote: > > Mocking RMS seems low; I find the topics and passion > about the operating system relevant to some form of > respect. > > Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 17:37:54 -0500 > From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day > RMS > > On Wed, 19 Mar 2014, Linda Kateley > wrote: > > I don't know what is > weirder, the fact that there > is a slide show of him > typing in places around the > world called "sexy" or the > fact that I > watched the whole thing :) > > > It was pretty short, so I saw all of it, > too. ?The thing that would be > weird is if you watched it twice. ?;-) > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From lkateley at kateley.com Wed Mar 19 23:11:39 2014 From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 23:11:39 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS In-Reply-To: References: <53263154.5000601@gmail.com>, <4136613E-3AAD-4798-B97F-AAAF8D4F0984@me.com>, , <5329FCFA.5090901@kateley.com>, , , , <1C9AC7F0-BF60-4A23-84CD-03F249554BD4@me.com> Message-ID: <532A6A7B.2030406@kateley.com> You do have to appreciate the kind of people we are... we are the kind of people who would love to sit with our laptops in the most beautiful places in the world. I really don't have any friends who understand that. I am a soccer mom, they don't get it. That's why I lurk on this list. lk On 3/19/14, 11:07 PM, paul g wrote: > Why laugh at someone who is trying to compute. Code is code and RMS > may not be sexy. I appreciate the freedom that GNU/UNIX/Linux gives in > order to think freely. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > From: ryanjcole at me.com > Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 22:54:20 -0500 > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS > > Someone from the Netherlands, according to the whois record... > > Domain Name:rms.sexy > Domain ID:DO_6a14351607e803e7f5b23b7de5865067-UR > WHOIS Server: whois.uniregistry.net > Referral URL: http://whois.uniregistry.net > Updated Date: 2014-03-04T11:42:01.709Z > Creation Date: 2014-02-27T11:42:01.625Z > Registry Expiry Date: 2015-02-27T11:42:01.625Z > Sponsoring Registrar: Gandi SAS > Sponsoring Registrar ID: 81 > Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID: 81 > Domain Status: ok > Registrant ID: bb6477-gandi > Registrant Name: Bas Bieling > Registrant Street: Jonathan Swiftlaan 2 > Registrant City: Eindhoven > Registrant Postal Code: 5629 MR > Registrant Country: NL > Registrant Phone: +31.402903336 > Registrant Email: > bb652b37da832d3d25e8a07f1d866dc5-1678621 at contact.gandi.net > > Admin ID: bb6477-gandi > Admin Name: Bas Bieling > Admin Street: Jonathan Swiftlaan 2 > Admin City: Eindhoven > Admin Postal Code: 5629 MR > Admin Country: NL > Admin Phone: +31.402903336 > Admin Email: > bb652b37da832d3d25e8a07f1d866dc5-1678621 at contact.gandi.net > > Tech ID: bb6477-gandi > Tech Name: Bas Bieling > Tech Street: Jonathan Swiftlaan 2 > Tech City: Eindhoven > Tech Postal Code: 5629 MR > Tech Country: NL > Tech Phone: +31.402903336 > Tech Email: bb652b37da832d3d25e8a07f1d866dc5-1678621 at contact.gandi.net > > Billing ID: bb6477-gandi > Billing Name: Bas Bieling > Billing Street: Jonathan Swiftlaan 2 > Billing City: Eindhoven > Billing Postal Code: 5629 MR > Billing Country: NL > Billing Phone: +31.402903336 > Billing Email: > bb652b37da832d3d25e8a07f1d866dc5-1678621 at contact.gandi.net > > Name Server:b.dns.gandi.net > Name Server:c.dns.gandi.net > Name Server:a.dns.gandi.net > DNSSEC: unsigned > > >>> Last update of WHOIS database: 2014-03-20T03:52:28.917Z <<< > > > On Mar 19, 2014, at 10:51 PM, Mike Miller > wrote: > > He gets a lot of respect from us, but he also has a sense of > humor. I don't know who made rms.sexy or why they made it, but I > don't think it was meant to evoke an outpouring of respect. We > aren't mocking him but we are laughing at the web page. I'm > pretty sure that's what they were shooting for. > > Mike > > > On Wed, 19 Mar 2014, paul g wrote: > > Mocking RMS seems low; I find the topics and passion about the > operating system relevant to some form of respect. > > Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 17:37:54 -0500 > From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS > > On Wed, 19 Mar 2014, Linda Kateley wrote: > > I don't know what is weirder, the fact that there is a > slide show of him > typing in places around the world called "sexy" or the > fact that I > watched the whole thing :) > > > It was pretty short, so I saw all of it, too. The thing > that would be > weird is if you watched it twice. ;-) > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Wed Mar 19 23:49:16 2014 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 23:49:16 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS In-Reply-To: <532A6A7B.2030406@kateley.com> References: <53263154.5000601@gmail.com>, <4136613E-3AAD-4798-B97F-AAAF8D4F0984@me.com>, , <5329FCFA.5090901@kateley.com>, , , , <1C9AC7F0-BF60-4A23-84CD-03F249554BD4@me.com> <532A6A7B.2030406@kateley.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Mar 2014, Linda Kateley wrote: > That's why I lurk on this list. You're doing a really bad job at lurking! From lkateley at kateley.com Wed Mar 19 23:58:41 2014 From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 23:58:41 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS In-Reply-To: References: <53263154.5000601@gmail.com>, <4136613E-3AAD-4798-B97F-AAAF8D4F0984@me.com>, , <5329FCFA.5090901@kateley.com>, , , , <1C9AC7F0-BF60-4A23-84CD-03F249554BD4@me.com> <532A6A7B.2030406@kateley.com> Message-ID: <532A7581.7020904@kateley.com> ya, you're right On 3/19/14, 11:49 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: > On Wed, 19 Mar 2014, Linda Kateley wrote: > >> That's why I lurk on this list. > > You're doing a really bad job at lurking! > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at beitsahour.net Thu Mar 20 06:48:18 2014 From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 06:48:18 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS In-Reply-To: References: <53263154.5000601@gmail.com> <4136613E-3AAD-4798-B97F-AAAF8D4F0984@me.com> <5329FCFA.5090901@kateley.com> <1C9AC7F0-BF60-4A23-84CD-03F249554BD4@me.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:11 PM, wrote: > Again, RMS is the kind of person who contacted our group, and tried to > browbeat us into changing our name from The Twin Cities Linux User's Group > to The Twin Cities GNU/Linux User's Group. > > I think we're allowed to laugh at him a bit. I seem to recall it differently. The way i remember things happening is that someone contacted RMS to speak at a TCLUG meeting and he would only do it if the LUG changed its name. If only we had list archives to consult... From david.wagle at gmail.com Thu Mar 20 07:38:11 2014 From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 07:38:11 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS In-Reply-To: References: <53263154.5000601@gmail.com> <4136613E-3AAD-4798-B97F-AAAF8D4F0984@me.com> <5329FCFA.5090901@kateley.com> <1C9AC7F0-BF60-4A23-84CD-03F249554BD4@me.com> Message-ID: <532AE133.3090808@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I wasn't around, but I must say, while RMS is indisputably passionate (in my opinion overly so) about semantics. I really it beyond the reach of the believable that he would contact this group out of the blue and demand a name change . . . On 03/20/2014 06:48 AM, Munir Nassar wrote: > On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:11 PM, wrote: >> Again, RMS is the kind of person who contacted our group, and >> tried to browbeat us into changing our name from The Twin Cities >> Linux User's Group to The Twin Cities GNU/Linux User's Group. >> >> I think we're allowed to laugh at him a bit. > > I seem to recall it differently. The way i remember things > happening is that someone contacted RMS to speak at a TCLUG meeting > and he would only do it if the LUG changed its name. If only we had > list archives to consult... > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List > - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTKuEzAAoJELWzpBXk2k3w490IAJNCtE8ttsL1yN8re9K520nf XdrYwK/96554E1oYEybiP9Dt0MOr84sujdX36WHoQd8MQ7mrfLY1qalZbt2blc4R qLCFG5oVSW/8gAofoOaOrNd4as7HXfNNod+rR8E9NWQXaKlsWvkDbsXXrBskBgGM nrRL6rGDxcYPZARi7YrEC1Khm0ElsM8YbaPnJgdQRYwU2FexGszO0M15ISiVG2BO DrnBc7SGbLMM0TjxKehODg2tPrINNRMFT01LZaJtqeFOLNOaqjXONCAV64KCXg+A zbn6qAO2hE72SpHE1MBR2eXf3D+5tZs1pMWbz0CEm3O33/DfZ2rFelCOCYI4jNU= =qa9u -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From david.wagle at gmail.com Thu Mar 20 10:17:52 2014 From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 10:17:52 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dual Monitor instability issue Message-ID: <532B06A0.8080300@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 My Arch box is giving me fits at the moment. Every now and then, for no reason I can discern, Xorg just locks up. This started only after I added a second monitor, so I'm fairly certain that the issue has to do with Xorg config and dual monitor issues. The observed symptoms are always the same, my "main" monitor goes black, and no keyboard input is processed, so I can't even get out of X. I have to telnet in, kill all my hung log-in and X, and can usually recover that way. It seems to be intimately related to a certain subset of applications being on the main monitor: firefox and canopy being the two big offenders. I can find no useful log information as to what is causing this.. My desktop environment is a tad 'customized:' Xfce4 with xmonad as the WM. Everything is fired up off of KDM (why KDM? -- 'cause I had KDE installed before I fell in love with xmonad) Any help/insight/troubleshooting suggestions are appreciated!! So, here's my box's critical stats: System: Host: gandalf Kernel: 3.13.6-1-ARCH x86_64 (64 bit) Desktop: Xfce 4.10.2 Distro: Arch Linux Machine: Mobo: ASRock model: Z87 Extreme4 Bios: American Megatrends v: P2.30 date: 07/03/2013 CPU: Quad core Intel Core i5-4670K CPU (-MCP-) cache: 6144 KB Clock Speeds: 1: 3400 MHz 2: 3400 MHz 3: 3400 MHz 4: 3466 MHz Graphics: Card: NVIDIA GK104 [GeForce GTX 760] Display Server: X.Org 1.15.0 driver: nvidia Resolution: 3840x1080 GLX Renderer: GeForce GTX 760/PCIe/SSE2 GLX Version: 4.4.0 NVIDIA 334.21 Audio: Card-1: Intel 8 Series/C220 Series High Definition Audio Controller driver: snd_hda_intel Card-2: NVIDIA GK104 HDMI Audio Controller driver: snd_hda_intel Card-3: Logitech driver: USB Audio Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v:: k3.13.6-1-ARCH Network: Card-1: Qualcomm Atheros AR93xx Wireless Network Adapter driver: ath9k IF: wlp5s0 state: up mac: 10:fe:ed:26:81:07 Card-2: Intel Ethernet Connection I217-V driver: e1000e IF: enp0s25 state: down mac: bc:5f:f4:f8:b6:f9 Drives: HDD Total Size: 2750.6GB (7.3% used) 1: id: /dev/sda model: ST2000DX001 size: 2000.4GB 2: id: /dev/sdb model: Samsung_SSD_840 size: 750.2GB Partition: ID: / size: 447G used: 20G (5%) fs: ext4 ID: /home size: 1.6T used: 169G (11%) fs: btrfs ID: swap-1 size: 51.54GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap Sensors: System Temperatures: cpu: 35.0C mobo: N/A gpu: 31C Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A Info: Processes: 174 Uptime: 10 min Memory: 1581.2/32112.1MB Client: Shell (zsh) inxi: 2.1.6 /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-monitor.conf: nvidia-settings: X configuration file generated by nvidia-settings # nvidia-settings: version 334.21 (buildmeister at swio-display-x64-rhel04-16) Thu Feb 27 14:36:51 PST 2014 Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "Layout0" Screen 0 "Screen0" 0 0 Screen 1 "Screen1" RightOf "Screen0" InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" InputDevice "Mouse0" "CorePointer" Option "Xinerama" "1" EndSection Section "Files" EndSection Section "InputDevice" # generated from default Identifier "Mouse0" Driver "mouse" Option "Protocol" "auto" Option "Device" "/dev/psaux" Option "Emulate3Buttons" "no" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" EndSection Section "InputDevice" # generated from default Identifier "Keyboard0" Driver "kbd" EndSection Section "Monitor" # HorizSync source: edid, VertRefresh source: edid Identifier "Monitor0" VendorName "Unknown" ModelName "BenQ GW2750H" HorizSync 30.0 - 83.0 VertRefresh 50.0 - 76.0 Option "DPMS" EndSection Section "Monitor" # HorizSync source: edid, VertRefresh source: edid Identifier "Monitor1" VendorName "Unknown" ModelName "BenQ GW2750H" HorizSync 30.0 - 83.0 VertRefresh 50.0 - 76.0 Option "DPMS" EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "Device0" Driver "nvidia" VendorName "NVIDIA Corporation" BoardName "GeForce GTX 760" BusID "PCI:2:0:0" Screen 0 EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "Device1" Driver "nvidia" VendorName "NVIDIA Corporation" BoardName "GeForce GTX 760" BusID "PCI:2:0:0" Screen 1 EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen0" Device "Device0" Monitor "Monitor0" DefaultDepth 24 Option "Stereo" "0" Option "metamodes" "DVI-D-0: nvidia-auto-select +0+0" Option "SLI" "Off" Option "MultiGPU" "Off" Option "BaseMosaic" "off" SubSection "Display" Depth 24 EndSubSection EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen1" Device "Device1" Monitor "Monitor1" DefaultDepth 24 Option "Stereo" "0" Option "metamodes" "HDMI-0: nvidia-auto-select +0+0" Option "SLI" "Off" Option "MultiGPU" "Off" Option "BaseMosaic" "off" SubSection "Display" Depth 24 EndSubSection EndSection -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTKwagAAoJELWzpBXk2k3wTccIAM5Pm2gA9A/JxptPrGPRM9Yt Z9OWjoDseP4YiPhxUbQW51RH/oIuxVYFgKJL5V1BqJhmZv2Pe65qJWHOhPLizaSE +pTVb+i3aSTWUpYr0FcXtoXcW9IlZeJKlsLGW80CYs/Er4h21ZUjEGKyYfzYCYfW 1i7lUdg9+lflhay688WKgpdiOKMIY0Mnsf0/ba+xsiAFoeir00C+2tSrwimocNts Eb9SPmJodhObX+qDTYp8ZsT+q7Eolu0Ge2cAn+cbwoV56TPSzEXlbJNq2QV8q6jm DUT041gP5AkQksKvOlV93zIhTa8Y5yGV4MTyYaSz30ARnVHNiz1UGTGHsjlvqQU= =DKbF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Mar 20 11:15:12 2014 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 11:15:12 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS In-Reply-To: References: <53263154.5000601@gmail.com> <4136613E-3AAD-4798-B97F-AAAF8D4F0984@me.com> <5329FCFA.5090901@kateley.com> <1C9AC7F0-BF60-4A23-84CD-03F249554BD4@me.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Mar 2014, Munir Nassar wrote: > On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:11 PM, wrote: > >> Again, RMS is the kind of person who contacted our group, and tried to >> browbeat us into changing our name from The Twin Cities Linux User's >> Group to The Twin Cities GNU/Linux User's Group. >> >> I think we're allowed to laugh at him a bit. > > I seem to recall it differently. The way i remember things happening is > that someone contacted RMS to speak at a TCLUG meeting and he would only > do it if the LUG changed its name. If only we had list archives to > consult... Right. There was no "browbeating." rms was going to be giving a talk at the U, so I asked if he would do a talk for TCLUG. He said that he would only talk for a GNU/Linux group and not for a Linux group. I was the one who then suggested that we change our name to "Twin Cities GNU/Linux Users Group." Some people liked that idea, some didn't, and we didn't change the name. I still took rms out to dinner with several TCLUG members while he was in town. I really enjoyed meeting him. Mike From david.wagle at gmail.com Thu Mar 20 11:18:23 2014 From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 11:18:23 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS In-Reply-To: References: <53263154.5000601@gmail.com> <4136613E-3AAD-4798-B97F-AAAF8D4F0984@me.com> <5329FCFA.5090901@kateley.com> <1C9AC7F0-BF60-4A23-84CD-03F249554BD4@me.com> Message-ID: <532B14CF.2070405@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Thank you for setting the record straight. On 03/20/2014 11:15 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > Right. There was no "browbeating." rms was going to be giving a > talk at the U, so I asked if he would do a talk for TCLUG. He said > that he would only talk for a GNU/Linux group and not for a Linux > group. I was the one who then suggested that we change our name to > "Twin Cities GNU/Linux Users Group." Some people liked that idea, > some didn't, and we didn't change the name. > > I still took rms out to dinner with several TCLUG members while he > was in town. I really enjoyed meeting him. > > Mike _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing > List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTKxTPAAoJELWzpBXk2k3wqgIH/1ltf1eLhtnm6mpbLehM8njN 7jrBh0/CY/VaOzSc4yzfVISUP621a5l02vLWi3oM4pZRpeelhSu0BhsdvARdpbxG Qtcn6PnFo2c5d5YQ7JwNN10OBKY8UAebbonvjNtMbcOJpV9L63MVrN2utP1o43o7 WZrtfOdzrP3+dwuxwiWCVZMSjk/uRn8mm81ga9tLJhHEmCPCta9DTsT8XhGgub4B ChlxgeI2/GVjm+PAFmoQf4gmEJoR6eJIXvusWRgYshz+uO2C9Gm1h+Oala/Zzlmq hP104CFiy4GZzvvnHuJ4OgnE4sh4Xb3QjHNhbTGIcmk6j7Z/ZDtn4VMHI2CA8oA= =5N5/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ryanjcole at me.com Thu Mar 20 11:46:36 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 11:46:36 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Needing some help with pfSense - already asked pfsense lists Message-ID: <1C1D3947-0BD0-465C-9A88-92A7A303FA10@me.com> I have an open issue that after about 20-24 hours the firewall stops routing internal data out (I can remote in, I can ping from internal networks, but many simple requests are getting blocked by the default rules). I think I might be pushing my luck with the 3 routed VLANs (4, if you count VLAN1) on the hardware (ALIX 2D13) but I am otherwise completely at a loss for ideas. ? Ryan From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com Thu Mar 20 12:26:50 2014 From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 12:26:50 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dual Monitor instability issue In-Reply-To: <532B06A0.8080300@gmail.com> References: <532B06A0.8080300@gmail.com> Message-ID: Have you tried the the noveau drivers temporarily? I don't understand why but os drivers worked better for me when I was splitting between TV (HDMI) and a monitor (DVI). The strange thing was, Windows nvidia drivers had support for modes I needed (720p), but Linux nvidia drivers refused to take them. nouveau drivers let me add them and worked just fine. I know this is different than your lockup problem, however this could be a driver root cause problem. Also using xfce4 + Arch. On another note, the only time Arch ever locked up on me was from Firefox and Adobe Flash plugin. Had to ssh in, kill proc sucking plugin container, and OS would come back to life. -- Jeremy MountainJohnson Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 10:17 AM, David Wagle wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > My Arch box is giving me fits at the moment. Every now and then, for > no reason I can discern, Xorg just locks up. This started only after I > added a second monitor, so I'm fairly certain that the issue has to do > with Xorg config and dual monitor issues. > > The observed symptoms are always the same, my "main" monitor goes > black, and no keyboard input is processed, so I can't even get out of > X. I have to telnet in, kill all my hung log-in and X, and can usually > recover that way. > > It seems to be intimately related to a certain subset of applications > being on the main monitor: firefox and canopy being the two big offenders. > > I can find no useful log information as to what is causing this.. > > My desktop environment is a tad 'customized:' Xfce4 with xmonad as the > WM. Everything is fired up off of KDM (why KDM? -- 'cause I had KDE > installed before I fell in love with xmonad) > > Any help/insight/troubleshooting suggestions are appreciated!! > > So, here's my box's critical stats: > > System: Host: gandalf Kernel: 3.13.6-1-ARCH x86_64 (64 bit) > Desktop: Xfce 4.10.2 Distro: Arch Linux > Machine: Mobo: ASRock model: Z87 Extreme4 Bios: American Megatrends > v: P2.30 date: 07/03/2013 > CPU: Quad core Intel Core i5-4670K CPU (-MCP-) cache: 6144 KB > Clock Speeds: 1: 3400 MHz 2: 3400 MHz 3: 3400 MHz 4: 3466 MHz > Graphics: Card: NVIDIA GK104 [GeForce GTX 760] > Display Server: X.Org 1.15.0 driver: nvidia Resolution: > 3840x1080 > GLX Renderer: GeForce GTX 760/PCIe/SSE2 GLX Version: 4.4.0 > NVIDIA 334.21 > Audio: Card-1: Intel 8 Series/C220 Series High Definition Audio > Controller driver: snd_hda_intel > Card-2: NVIDIA GK104 HDMI Audio Controller driver: > snd_hda_intel > Card-3: Logitech driver: USB Audio > Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v:: k3.13.6-1-ARCH > Network: Card-1: Qualcomm Atheros AR93xx Wireless Network Adapter > driver: ath9k > IF: wlp5s0 state: up mac: 10:fe:ed:26:81:07 > Card-2: Intel Ethernet Connection I217-V driver: e1000e > IF: enp0s25 state: down mac: bc:5f:f4:f8:b6:f9 > Drives: HDD Total Size: 2750.6GB (7.3% used) 1: id: /dev/sda model: > ST2000DX001 size: 2000.4GB > 2: id: /dev/sdb model: Samsung_SSD_840 size: 750.2GB > Partition: ID: / size: 447G used: 20G (5%) fs: ext4 ID: /home size: > 1.6T used: 169G (11%) fs: btrfs > ID: swap-1 size: 51.54GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap > Sensors: System Temperatures: cpu: 35.0C mobo: N/A gpu: 31C > Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A > Info: Processes: 174 Uptime: 10 min Memory: 1581.2/32112.1MB > Client: Shell (zsh) inxi: 2.1.6 > > /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-monitor.conf: > > nvidia-settings: X configuration file generated by nvidia-settings > # nvidia-settings: version 334.21 > (buildmeister at swio-display-x64-rhel04-16) Thu Feb 27 14:36:51 PST 2014 > > Section "ServerLayout" > Identifier "Layout0" > Screen 0 "Screen0" 0 0 > Screen 1 "Screen1" RightOf "Screen0" > InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" > InputDevice "Mouse0" "CorePointer" > Option "Xinerama" "1" > EndSection > > Section "Files" > EndSection > > Section "InputDevice" > # generated from default > Identifier "Mouse0" > Driver "mouse" > Option "Protocol" "auto" > Option "Device" "/dev/psaux" > Option "Emulate3Buttons" "no" > Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" > EndSection > > Section "InputDevice" > # generated from default > Identifier "Keyboard0" > Driver "kbd" > EndSection > > Section "Monitor" > # HorizSync source: edid, VertRefresh source: edid > Identifier "Monitor0" > VendorName "Unknown" > ModelName "BenQ GW2750H" > HorizSync 30.0 - 83.0 > VertRefresh 50.0 - 76.0 > Option "DPMS" > EndSection > > Section "Monitor" > # HorizSync source: edid, VertRefresh source: edid > Identifier "Monitor1" > VendorName "Unknown" > ModelName "BenQ GW2750H" > HorizSync 30.0 - 83.0 > VertRefresh 50.0 - 76.0 > Option "DPMS" > EndSection > > Section "Device" > Identifier "Device0" > Driver "nvidia" > VendorName "NVIDIA Corporation" > BoardName "GeForce GTX 760" > BusID "PCI:2:0:0" > Screen 0 > EndSection > > Section "Device" > Identifier "Device1" > Driver "nvidia" > VendorName "NVIDIA Corporation" > BoardName "GeForce GTX 760" > BusID "PCI:2:0:0" > Screen 1 > EndSection > > Section "Screen" > Identifier "Screen0" > Device "Device0" > Monitor "Monitor0" > DefaultDepth 24 > Option "Stereo" "0" > Option "metamodes" "DVI-D-0: nvidia-auto-select +0+0" > Option "SLI" "Off" > Option "MultiGPU" "Off" > Option "BaseMosaic" "off" > SubSection "Display" > Depth 24 > EndSubSection > EndSection > > Section "Screen" > Identifier "Screen1" > Device "Device1" > Monitor "Monitor1" > DefaultDepth 24 > Option "Stereo" "0" > Option "metamodes" "HDMI-0: nvidia-auto-select +0+0" > Option "SLI" "Off" > Option "MultiGPU" "Off" > Option "BaseMosaic" "off" > SubSection "Display" > Depth 24 > EndSubSection > EndSection > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTKwagAAoJELWzpBXk2k3wTccIAM5Pm2gA9A/JxptPrGPRM9Yt > Z9OWjoDseP4YiPhxUbQW51RH/oIuxVYFgKJL5V1BqJhmZv2Pe65qJWHOhPLizaSE > +pTVb+i3aSTWUpYr0FcXtoXcW9IlZeJKlsLGW80CYs/Er4h21ZUjEGKyYfzYCYfW > 1i7lUdg9+lflhay688WKgpdiOKMIY0Mnsf0/ba+xsiAFoeir00C+2tSrwimocNts > Eb9SPmJodhObX+qDTYp8ZsT+q7Eolu0Ge2cAn+cbwoV56TPSzEXlbJNq2QV8q6jm > DUT041gP5AkQksKvOlV93zIhTa8Y5yGV4MTyYaSz30ARnVHNiz1UGTGHsjlvqQU= > =DKbF > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ryan.c.dunlop at gmail.com Thu Mar 20 14:06:50 2014 From: ryan.c.dunlop at gmail.com (Ryan Dunlop) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 14:06:50 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Needing some help with pfSense - already asked pfsense lists In-Reply-To: <1C1D3947-0BD0-465C-9A88-92A7A303FA10@me.com> References: <1C1D3947-0BD0-465C-9A88-92A7A303FA10@me.com> Message-ID: So are you actually not getting to these pages at all, or are these just showing in the log? I ask because pfSense does this a lot. Here is a look at my situation: Mar 20 13:53:32 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA Mar 20 13:53:32 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA Mar 20 13:53:13 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA Mar 20 13:53:13 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA Mar 20 13:53:02 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA Mar 20 13:53:02 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA Mar 20 13:52:56 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA Mar 20 13:52:56 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA Mar 20 13:52:54 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA Mar 20 13:52:54 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FA Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:PA Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FA Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:PA These are all "blocked". Yet in reality we got to these pages, it's simply this: https://doc.pfsense.org/index.php/Why_do_my_logs_show_%22blocked%22_for_traffic_from_a_legitimate_connection Although the article talks about it being late arriving FIN packets, it does happen to ACK too... Just need to clarify if you are actually getting fully rejected from getting anywhere, or if it's a log thing you are seeing. I'll look back through your pfsense mailing list postings too. Ryan On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 11:46 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > I have an open issue that after about 20-24 hours the firewall stops routing internal data out (I can remote in, I can ping from internal networks, but many simple requests are getting blocked by the default rules). > > I think I might be pushing my luck with the 3 routed VLANs (4, if you count VLAN1) on the hardware (ALIX 2D13) but I am otherwise completely at a loss for ideas. > > > -- > Ryan > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ryanjcole at me.com Thu Mar 20 14:09:40 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 14:09:40 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Needing some help with pfSense - already asked pfsense lists In-Reply-To: References: <1C1D3947-0BD0-465C-9A88-92A7A303FA10@me.com> Message-ID: They load the first few lines but once it needs another site (say yahoo's CDN on their homepage) it stalls. Google loads but it's all inclusive - no CSS or JS files. Email is blocked 90% of the time. -- Ryan Coleman ryanjcole at me.com m. 651.373.5015 o. 612.568.2749 > On Mar 20, 2014, at 14:06, Ryan Dunlop wrote: > > So are you actually not getting to these pages at all, or are these > just showing in the log? I ask because pfSense does this a lot. Here > is a look at my situation: > > Mar 20 13:53:32 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA > Mar 20 13:53:32 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA > Mar 20 13:53:13 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA > Mar 20 13:53:13 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA > Mar 20 13:53:02 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA > Mar 20 13:53:02 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA > Mar 20 13:52:56 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA > Mar 20 13:52:56 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA > Mar 20 13:52:54 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA > Mar 20 13:52:54 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA > Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA > Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA > Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA > Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA > Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FA > Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:PA > Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FA > Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:PA > > These are all "blocked". Yet in reality we got to these pages, it's > simply this: https://doc.pfsense.org/index.php/Why_do_my_logs_show_%22blocked%22_for_traffic_from_a_legitimate_connection > > Although the article talks about it being late arriving FIN packets, > it does happen to ACK too... Just need to clarify if you are actually > getting fully rejected from getting anywhere, or if it's a log thing > you are seeing. I'll look back through your pfsense mailing list > postings too. > > Ryan > >> On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 11:46 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> I have an open issue that after about 20-24 hours the firewall stops routing internal data out (I can remote in, I can ping from internal networks, but many simple requests are getting blocked by the default rules). >> >> I think I might be pushing my luck with the 3 routed VLANs (4, if you count VLAN1) on the hardware (ALIX 2D13) but I am otherwise completely at a loss for ideas. >> >> >> -- >> Ryan >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Mar 20 14:51:54 2014 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 14:51:54 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Wired: "Facebook Introduces 'Hack, ' the Programming Language of the Future" Message-ID: I just read about this in Wired -- see link at end of message. Zuckerberg developed Facebook in PHP. As it grew, they needed to do something to improve on PHP, so they invented "Hack". While PHP is dynamically typed, Hack uses "gradual typing": http://ecee.colorado.edu/~siek/gradualtyping.html It runs on Hip-Hop Virtual Machine (HHVM): https://code.facebook.com/posts/264544830379293/hack-a-new-programming-language-for-hhvm/ The open-source version is here: http://hacklang.org/ HHVM is licensed under the PHP and Zend licenses except as otherwise noted. There's already a Wikipedia page for Hack, but there's nothing on it right now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hack_(programming_language) According to the article (link below): "Hack will be particularly attractive, Adermann says, to existing PHP shops. ?Ironically,? he says, ?its chief advantage is how little it differs from PHP.? Like Facebook, these shops can gradually move their operations from one language to the another. But Adermann also believes that some developers will adopt the language even if they?re not already using PHP. ?While PHP is the most widely used language on the web, it?s unpopular in many places because of its inconsistencies,? he says. ?Hack addresses these ? and thereby makes the language more attractive to users of other languages.? "But the biggest endorsement for the new language is that Facebook already uses it to run its own site, the world?s most popular social network. It?s not every day that a new language debuts with such an impressive track record. Some, however, question whether Hack should really be called a new programming language. There?s a fine line here between an update to PHP and a replacement for PHP." http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2014/03/facebook-hack/ Wired 03.20.14 Facebook Introduces ?Hack,? the Programming Language of the Future BY CADE METZ From ryan.c.dunlop at gmail.com Thu Mar 20 15:02:34 2014 From: ryan.c.dunlop at gmail.com (Ryan Dunlop) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 15:02:34 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Needing some help with pfSense - already asked pfsense lists In-Reply-To: References: <1C1D3947-0BD0-465C-9A88-92A7A303FA10@me.com> Message-ID: In the Alix documentation for that device it mentions that EHCI driver could cause issues and panic conditions in FreeBSD. Maybe you want to randomly toggle that off? Doesn't seem like anything to do with anything, but neither does the rest of this situation... No outbound rules defined besides allow all? LAN address for pfSense static? Gateway defined for WAN? Is the gateway (modem/switch in between) experiencing even short glitches of being down? There are a couple of settings in Advanced, Miscellaneous for schedule states and gateway monitoring if your connection is at all glitchy it may be killing all states for good with these options and not coming back until a full reboot. Mine are both unchecked. Under Interfaces, LAN are you blocking private networks? All cables in the bar good, no kinks, proper terminations, not mixed wiring? I know these are all very basic setup options, but being that neither this list, nor the pfSense list can figure anything out, I want to rule out a simple check box situation before the hardware is suspect. Where does your RAM usage sit? I don't use much more (512MB) but between 256MB and a 500Mhz proc, I am wondering if you are simply pushing that hardware? It should be fine for your bandwidth in a simple setup but the 3 VLANS may be the issue when their bandwidth is combined on the hardware. Mine is virtualized so although my RAM is at that level it is also able to use a Xeon E5 2440. States aren't being eaten up? This is crazy...wish I could be more help! Ryan On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 2:09 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > They load the first few lines but once it needs another site (say yahoo's CDN on their homepage) it stalls. Google loads but it's all inclusive - no CSS or JS files. > > Email is blocked 90% of the time. > > -- > Ryan Coleman > ryanjcole at me.com > m. 651.373.5015 > o. 612.568.2749 > >> On Mar 20, 2014, at 14:06, Ryan Dunlop wrote: >> >> So are you actually not getting to these pages at all, or are these >> just showing in the log? I ask because pfSense does this a lot. Here >> is a look at my situation: >> >> Mar 20 13:53:32 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA >> Mar 20 13:53:32 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA >> Mar 20 13:53:13 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA >> Mar 20 13:53:13 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA >> Mar 20 13:53:02 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA >> Mar 20 13:53:02 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA >> Mar 20 13:52:56 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA >> Mar 20 13:52:56 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA >> Mar 20 13:52:54 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA >> Mar 20 13:52:54 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA >> Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA >> Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA >> Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA >> Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA >> Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FA >> Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:PA >> Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FA >> Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:PA >> >> These are all "blocked". Yet in reality we got to these pages, it's >> simply this: https://doc.pfsense.org/index.php/Why_do_my_logs_show_%22blocked%22_for_traffic_from_a_legitimate_connection >> >> Although the article talks about it being late arriving FIN packets, >> it does happen to ACK too... Just need to clarify if you are actually >> getting fully rejected from getting anywhere, or if it's a log thing >> you are seeing. I'll look back through your pfsense mailing list >> postings too. >> >> Ryan >> >>> On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 11:46 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>> I have an open issue that after about 20-24 hours the firewall stops routing internal data out (I can remote in, I can ping from internal networks, but many simple requests are getting blocked by the default rules). >>> >>> I think I might be pushing my luck with the 3 routed VLANs (4, if you count VLAN1) on the hardware (ALIX 2D13) but I am otherwise completely at a loss for ideas. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Ryan >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ryanjcole at me.com Thu Mar 20 15:53:11 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 15:53:11 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Needing some help with pfSense - already asked pfsense lists In-Reply-To: References: <1C1D3947-0BD0-465C-9A88-92A7A303FA10@me.com> Message-ID: Inline responses? On Mar 20, 2014, at 3:02 PM, Ryan Dunlop wrote: > In the Alix documentation for that device it mentions that EHCI driver > could cause issues and panic conditions in FreeBSD. Maybe you want to > randomly toggle that off? Doesn't seem like anything to do with > anything, but neither does the rest of this situation? Not sure how to (easily) do that with the board without going via RS232. I?ll look into it. > No outbound rules defined besides allow all? There were but I eliminated them. > LAN address for pfSense static? Dynamic. Easier that way - assigned by the CenturyLink DSL modem > Gateway defined for WAN? DHCP. > Is the gateway (modem/switch in between) experiencing even short > glitches of being down? Not that I?ve seen. I can talk to the firewall constantly remotely (DMZ?d). > There are a couple of settings in Advanced, > Miscellaneous for schedule states and gateway monitoring if your > connection is at all glitchy it may be killing all states for good > with these options and not coming back until a full reboot. Mine are > both unchecked. > Under Interfaces, LAN are you blocking private networks? No, because of the double-NAT. > All cables in the bar good, no kinks, proper terminations, not mixed wiring? Yes, new cables, pre-fab, all tested. > I know these are all very basic setup options, but being that neither > this list, nor the pfSense list can figure anything out, I want to > rule out a simple check box situation before the hardware is suspect. > > Where does your RAM usage sit? I don't use much more (512MB) but > between 256MB and a 500Mhz proc, I am wondering if you are simply > pushing that hardware? I thought that, too. It?s working now after swapping the hardware out (again - third time). 54% utilization, 2% on states (459/23000), 22% of the disk in use. > It should be fine for your bandwidth in a > simple setup but the 3 VLANS may be the issue when their bandwidth is > combined on the hardware. Mine is virtualized so although my RAM is > at that level it is also able to use a Xeon E5 2440. States aren't > being eaten up? My E5 VM at home is plugging away without issues? but it was built from the 2.0 image and upgraded to 2.1-RELEASE. > > This is crazy...wish I could be more help! Heh, me too. I cannot possibly think of a reason. I was using a different power supply than was provided but I just put it to the right one today (12V 1A instead of 15V 1.5A I think it was shipped with). > > > > > On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 2:09 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> They load the first few lines but once it needs another site (say yahoo's CDN on their homepage) it stalls. Google loads but it's all inclusive - no CSS or JS files. >> >> Email is blocked 90% of the time. >> >> -- >> Ryan Coleman >> ryanjcole at me.com >> m. 651.373.5015 >> o. 612.568.2749 >> >>> On Mar 20, 2014, at 14:06, Ryan Dunlop wrote: >>> >>> So are you actually not getting to these pages at all, or are these >>> just showing in the log? I ask because pfSense does this a lot. Here >>> is a look at my situation: >>> >>> Mar 20 13:53:32 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA >>> Mar 20 13:53:32 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA >>> Mar 20 13:53:13 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA >>> Mar 20 13:53:13 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA >>> Mar 20 13:53:02 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA >>> Mar 20 13:53:02 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA >>> Mar 20 13:52:56 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA >>> Mar 20 13:52:56 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA >>> Mar 20 13:52:54 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA >>> Mar 20 13:52:54 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA >>> Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA >>> Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA >>> Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA >>> Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FPA >>> Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FA >>> Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:38737 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:PA >>> Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:FA >>> Mar 20 13:52:53 LAN 10.0.0.84:44553 74.125.225.6:80 TCP:PA >>> >>> These are all "blocked". Yet in reality we got to these pages, it's >>> simply this: https://doc.pfsense.org/index.php/Why_do_my_logs_show_%22blocked%22_for_traffic_from_a_legitimate_connection >>> >>> Although the article talks about it being late arriving FIN packets, >>> it does happen to ACK too... Just need to clarify if you are actually >>> getting fully rejected from getting anywhere, or if it's a log thing >>> you are seeing. I'll look back through your pfsense mailing list >>> postings too. >>> >>> Ryan >>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 11:46 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>>> I have an open issue that after about 20-24 hours the firewall stops routing internal data out (I can remote in, I can ping from internal networks, but many simple requests are getting blocked by the default rules). >>>> >>>> I think I might be pushing my luck with the 3 routed VLANs (4, if you count VLAN1) on the hardware (ALIX 2D13) but I am otherwise completely at a loss for ideas. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Ryan >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Thu Mar 20 16:40:16 2014 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 21:40:16 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Wired: "Facebook Introduces 'Hack, 'the Programming Language of the Future" Message-ID: Mike Miller: > I just read about this in Wired -- see link at end of message. > > Zuckerberg developed Facebook in PHP. As it grew, they needed to do > something to improve on PHP, so they invented "Hack". The article doesn't really mention this stuff: http://news.softpedia.com/news/With-HipHop-Facebook-Merges-PHP-Flexibility-and-C-Raw-Speed-133973.shtml http://www.zdnet.com/blog/facebook/facebook-may-release-its-core-c-library-this-year/8725 They also hired this well-known C++ programmer http://erdani.com/ The article mentions Java, but I don't think Facebook uses much Java! -- Brian Ebenezer Enterprises - So far G-d has helped us. http://webEbenezer.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From samael.anon at gmail.com Thu Mar 20 16:45:29 2014 From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 16:45:29 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Ping paul g In-Reply-To: References: <53262147.6a94b60a.6eb0.ffff8da4@mx.google.com> Message-ID: different post, but interesting What i love about FreeBSD and OpenBSD is the documentation. Time consuming to learn but well worth it; and I just do it all for fun. What was the name of that new Linux meetup group? On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 9:40 AM, Marc Thomas wrote: > >To that end I would suggest the recently resurrected Northfield linux > >users group (norlug). > >They meet weekly at the Hideaway in Northfield- coffeehouse coders- and > >are starting technical meetings this month. First one is on Raspberry > >Pi. > > Harv, thanks for the NORLUG recognition! > > >Would anyone be willing to host a beginners Free BSD class? > > Paul: Great to see that your interested in Free BSD. I am the organizer > of the Northfield Linux User Group. While I myself know very little about > Free BSD, you are welcome to come to one of our weekly coffee house coders > groups, or one of our technical meetings. Perhaps some other members may be > able to help you. We meet every Monday evening at The Hideaway in downtown > Northfield for some social time. Everyone generally brings projects they > are working on, usually code or graphic design stuff but it's whatever you > want. We also host technical meetings. Our first one since the group > revived is this next Thursday. Perhaps we can look into hosting a Free BSD > class at some point. > > Meeting up with people in person is definitely a valuable experience. When > I first began learning Linux (Ubuntu) I was on forums, IRC, and mailing > lists for a while before attending my first user group. It can be hard to > learn something new when you don't know what questions to ask and what > software and resources are available. > > > On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 5:10 PM, harv <42dch42 at gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Sun, 16 Mar 2014 12:00:02 -0500 >> tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org opined: >> > From: paul g >> > To: TCLUG Mailing List >> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Ping paul g >> > Message-ID: >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> > >> > Thank you I am sorry to cause a problem I know I ask alot of questions >> and I am very dumb. >> > >> > >> NO! >> You completely misunderstand my intent of initial post. >> Probably partially my fault- communication skills not the best. >> >> First, if you are causing anyone problems, it certainly isn't me. ;) >> >> Second, asking questions on a list designed for the asking and >> answering of questions can hardly be considered "dumb". >> >> Third, the only dumb question is the one that is NOT asked. >> >> What I was trying to do- as I stated- was give you another option for >> quenching your thirst for knowledge. >> >> I find asking questions of like-minded individuals in a relaxed >> environment- preferably over beverages- much more satisfying and in >> some cases more productive than posting a question to a list then >> waiting for a reply which may never come. >> I thought perhaps the same may true for you so pointed out the norlug >> option. >> >> -- >> harv >> >> > > Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 01:23:08 -0500 >> > > From: 42dch42 at gmail.com >> > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> > > Subject: [tclug-list] Ping paul g >> > > >> > > Hey Paul, >> > > Hope I'm not out of line here but you seem to be about where I was >> > > 10-12yrs ago. >> > > I bothered lists and forums across the 'net learning my way around but >> > > what was most helpful to me was face-time with knowledgeable folks. >> > > >> > > To that end I would suggest the recently resurrected Northfield linux >> > > users group (norlug). >> > > They meet weekly at the Hideaway in Northfield- coffeehouse coders- >> and >> > > are starting technical meetings this month. First one is on Raspberry >> > > Pi. >> > > >> > > http://www.norlug.org/ >> > > >> > > Certainly not trying to dissuade you from posting here just pointing >> > > out another helpful option for your quest for knowledge. >> > > >> > > harv >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > > -- > Website : Google+ > : Twitter : GitHub > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.wagle at gmail.com Thu Mar 20 21:09:16 2014 From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 21:09:16 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dual Monitor instability issue In-Reply-To: References: <532B06A0.8080300@gmail.com> Message-ID: <532B9F4C.6030207@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 OK - I've been able to establish that it's actually firefox and/or thunderbird that hand up the server. I kept a ssh login alive and active all day and when it hung again, I started killing processes. Gettign rid of Firefox returned the system to being responsive. Oddly, thunderbird died too (shared library? no clue). Still don't know what to do about it. But there we are . . . On 03/20/2014 12:26 PM, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote: > Have you tried the the noveau drivers temporarily? I don't > understand why but os drivers worked better for me when I was > splitting between TV (HDMI) and a monitor (DVI). The strange thing > was, Windows nvidia drivers had support for modes I needed (720p), > but Linux nvidia drivers refused to take them. nouveau drivers let > me add them and worked just fine. I know this is different than > your lockup problem, however this could be a driver root cause > problem. Also using xfce4 + Arch. > > On another note, the only time Arch ever locked up on me was from > Firefox and Adobe Flash plugin. Had to ssh in, kill proc sucking > plugin container, and OS would come back to life. -- Jeremy > MountainJohnson Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com > > > On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 10:17 AM, David Wagle > wrote: My Arch box is giving me fits at the > moment. Every now and then, for no reason I can discern, Xorg just > locks up. This started only after I added a second monitor, so I'm > fairly certain that the issue has to do with Xorg config and dual > monitor issues. > > The observed symptoms are always the same, my "main" monitor goes > black, and no keyboard input is processed, so I can't even get out > of X. I have to telnet in, kill all my hung log-in and X, and can > usually recover that way. > > It seems to be intimately related to a certain subset of > applications being on the main monitor: firefox and canopy being > the two big offenders. > > I can find no useful log information as to what is causing this.. > > My desktop environment is a tad 'customized:' Xfce4 with xmonad as > the WM. Everything is fired up off of KDM (why KDM? -- 'cause I had > KDE installed before I fell in love with xmonad) > > Any help/insight/troubleshooting suggestions are appreciated!! > > So, here's my box's critical stats: > > System: Host: gandalf Kernel: 3.13.6-1-ARCH x86_64 (64 bit) > Desktop: Xfce 4.10.2 Distro: Arch Linux Machine: Mobo: ASRock > model: Z87 Extreme4 Bios: American Megatrends v: P2.30 date: > 07/03/2013 CPU: Quad core Intel Core i5-4670K CPU (-MCP-) > cache: 6144 KB Clock Speeds: 1: 3400 MHz 2: 3400 MHz 3: 3400 MHz 4: > 3466 MHz Graphics: Card: NVIDIA GK104 [GeForce GTX 760] Display > Server: X.Org 1.15.0 driver: nvidia Resolution: 3840x1080 GLX > Renderer: GeForce GTX 760/PCIe/SSE2 GLX Version: 4.4.0 NVIDIA > 334.21 Audio: Card-1: Intel 8 Series/C220 Series High > Definition Audio Controller driver: snd_hda_intel Card-2: NVIDIA > GK104 HDMI Audio Controller driver: snd_hda_intel Card-3: Logitech > driver: USB Audio Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v:: > k3.13.6-1-ARCH Network: Card-1: Qualcomm Atheros AR93xx Wireless > Network Adapter driver: ath9k IF: wlp5s0 state: up mac: > 10:fe:ed:26:81:07 Card-2: Intel Ethernet Connection I217-V driver: > e1000e IF: enp0s25 state: down mac: bc:5f:f4:f8:b6:f9 Drives: > HDD Total Size: 2750.6GB (7.3% used) 1: id: /dev/sda model: > ST2000DX001 size: 2000.4GB 2: id: /dev/sdb model: Samsung_SSD_840 > size: 750.2GB Partition: ID: / size: 447G used: 20G (5%) fs: ext4 > ID: /home size: 1.6T used: 169G (11%) fs: btrfs ID: swap-1 size: > 51.54GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap Sensors: System Temperatures: > cpu: 35.0C mobo: N/A gpu: 31C Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A Info: > Processes: 174 Uptime: 10 min Memory: 1581.2/32112.1MB Client: > Shell (zsh) inxi: 2.1.6 > > /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-monitor.conf: > > nvidia-settings: X configuration file generated by nvidia-settings > # nvidia-settings: version 334.21 > (buildmeister at swio-display-x64-rhel04-16) Thu Feb 27 14:36:51 PST > 2014 > > Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "Layout0" Screen 0 > "Screen0" 0 0 Screen 1 "Screen1" RightOf "Screen0" > InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" InputDevice "Mouse0" > "CorePointer" Option "Xinerama" "1" EndSection > > Section "Files" EndSection > > Section "InputDevice" # generated from default Identifier > "Mouse0" Driver "mouse" Option "Protocol" "auto" > Option "Device" "/dev/psaux" Option > "Emulate3Buttons" "no" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" > EndSection > > Section "InputDevice" # generated from default Identifier > "Keyboard0" Driver "kbd" EndSection > > Section "Monitor" # HorizSync source: edid, VertRefresh source: > edid Identifier "Monitor0" VendorName "Unknown" ModelName > "BenQ GW2750H" HorizSync 30.0 - 83.0 VertRefresh 50.0 - > 76.0 Option "DPMS" EndSection > > Section "Monitor" # HorizSync source: edid, VertRefresh source: > edid Identifier "Monitor1" VendorName "Unknown" ModelName > "BenQ GW2750H" HorizSync 30.0 - 83.0 VertRefresh 50.0 - > 76.0 Option "DPMS" EndSection > > Section "Device" Identifier "Device0" Driver "nvidia" > VendorName "NVIDIA Corporation" BoardName "GeForce GTX > 760" BusID "PCI:2:0:0" Screen 0 EndSection > > Section "Device" Identifier "Device1" Driver "nvidia" > VendorName "NVIDIA Corporation" BoardName "GeForce GTX > 760" BusID "PCI:2:0:0" Screen 1 EndSection > > Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen0" Device "Device0" > Monitor "Monitor0" DefaultDepth 24 Option > "Stereo" "0" Option "metamodes" "DVI-D-0: > nvidia-auto-select +0+0" Option "SLI" "Off" Option > "MultiGPU" "Off" Option "BaseMosaic" "off" SubSection > "Display" Depth 24 EndSubSection EndSection > > Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen1" Device "Device1" > Monitor "Monitor1" DefaultDepth 24 Option > "Stereo" "0" Option "metamodes" "HDMI-0: nvidia-auto-select > +0+0" Option "SLI" "Off" Option "MultiGPU" "Off" > Option "BaseMosaic" "off" SubSection "Display" Depth > 24 EndSubSection EndSection >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing >> List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List > - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTK59MAAoJELWzpBXk2k3w/qYIAJkjHsDYZHVrYkkNKVqD7dt9 4oKDo13dmjysL/j2cg3tt2cD8fuGOLsELsxHnKmXMX7Cag/FsyhTfRdWBrFpjm9a DEhub6DHNyO6V+BlPC65MjR+WqT0ant0AJt32prtuK2D6sapgOlL+HdlFbK25N4i udZCIeB7WS8KIFLv/+Z+ZoIMd1ovZnuocmcixr50Vt8leXY4OxotiVdIQA0i4fOz KDuO7CH0s6DYpVCkgruyarbR08ScpM+1dW6Fa/N0z/GoOZZJIHalqN0Z0ly4PHd5 PvorMya/YQtuh2+Hn0PI2kUafvaQfLFZp851D5yj38Ozc0U4E7kecQuC/58e3nA= =tzuU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com Fri Mar 21 07:57:36 2014 From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 07:57:36 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dual Monitor instability issue In-Reply-To: <532B9F4C.6030207@gmail.com> References: <532B06A0.8080300@gmail.com> <532B9F4C.6030207@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thunderbird uses the same api as Firefox to parse and display HTML messages. I haven't used TB in awhile, so I may be wrong, but they should be completely segregated. Are you solely killing the firefox process or others as well (using killall with a regex)? Have you checked bugs and the Arch forums? Also, if it's definitely caused by Firefox, I'd recommend looking at disabling other plug-ins like Java, extensions, or trying out other variations of Firefox (ie. in AUR, Iceweasel, Aurora) to see if the problem continues. -- Jeremy MountainJohnson Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 9:09 PM, David Wagle wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > OK - I've been able to establish that it's actually firefox and/or > thunderbird that hand up the server. I kept a ssh login alive and > active all day and when it hung again, I started killing processes. > Gettign rid of Firefox returned the system to being responsive. Oddly, > thunderbird died too (shared library? no clue). > > Still don't know what to do about it. But there we are . . . > > On 03/20/2014 12:26 PM, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote: >> Have you tried the the noveau drivers temporarily? I don't >> understand why but os drivers worked better for me when I was >> splitting between TV (HDMI) and a monitor (DVI). The strange thing >> was, Windows nvidia drivers had support for modes I needed (720p), >> but Linux nvidia drivers refused to take them. nouveau drivers let >> me add them and worked just fine. I know this is different than >> your lockup problem, however this could be a driver root cause >> problem. Also using xfce4 + Arch. >> >> On another note, the only time Arch ever locked up on me was from >> Firefox and Adobe Flash plugin. Had to ssh in, kill proc sucking >> plugin container, and OS would come back to life. -- Jeremy >> MountainJohnson Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 10:17 AM, David Wagle >> wrote: My Arch box is giving me fits at the >> moment. Every now and then, for no reason I can discern, Xorg just >> locks up. This started only after I added a second monitor, so I'm >> fairly certain that the issue has to do with Xorg config and dual >> monitor issues. >> >> The observed symptoms are always the same, my "main" monitor goes >> black, and no keyboard input is processed, so I can't even get out >> of X. I have to telnet in, kill all my hung log-in and X, and can >> usually recover that way. >> >> It seems to be intimately related to a certain subset of >> applications being on the main monitor: firefox and canopy being >> the two big offenders. >> >> I can find no useful log information as to what is causing this.. >> >> My desktop environment is a tad 'customized:' Xfce4 with xmonad as >> the WM. Everything is fired up off of KDM (why KDM? -- 'cause I had >> KDE installed before I fell in love with xmonad) >> >> Any help/insight/troubleshooting suggestions are appreciated!! >> >> So, here's my box's critical stats: >> >> System: Host: gandalf Kernel: 3.13.6-1-ARCH x86_64 (64 bit) >> Desktop: Xfce 4.10.2 Distro: Arch Linux Machine: Mobo: ASRock >> model: Z87 Extreme4 Bios: American Megatrends v: P2.30 date: >> 07/03/2013 CPU: Quad core Intel Core i5-4670K CPU (-MCP-) >> cache: 6144 KB Clock Speeds: 1: 3400 MHz 2: 3400 MHz 3: 3400 MHz 4: >> 3466 MHz Graphics: Card: NVIDIA GK104 [GeForce GTX 760] Display >> Server: X.Org 1.15.0 driver: nvidia Resolution: 3840x1080 GLX >> Renderer: GeForce GTX 760/PCIe/SSE2 GLX Version: 4.4.0 NVIDIA >> 334.21 Audio: Card-1: Intel 8 Series/C220 Series High >> Definition Audio Controller driver: snd_hda_intel Card-2: NVIDIA >> GK104 HDMI Audio Controller driver: snd_hda_intel Card-3: Logitech >> driver: USB Audio Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v:: >> k3.13.6-1-ARCH Network: Card-1: Qualcomm Atheros AR93xx Wireless >> Network Adapter driver: ath9k IF: wlp5s0 state: up mac: >> 10:fe:ed:26:81:07 Card-2: Intel Ethernet Connection I217-V driver: >> e1000e IF: enp0s25 state: down mac: bc:5f:f4:f8:b6:f9 Drives: >> HDD Total Size: 2750.6GB (7.3% used) 1: id: /dev/sda model: >> ST2000DX001 size: 2000.4GB 2: id: /dev/sdb model: Samsung_SSD_840 >> size: 750.2GB Partition: ID: / size: 447G used: 20G (5%) fs: ext4 >> ID: /home size: 1.6T used: 169G (11%) fs: btrfs ID: swap-1 size: >> 51.54GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap Sensors: System Temperatures: >> cpu: 35.0C mobo: N/A gpu: 31C Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A Info: >> Processes: 174 Uptime: 10 min Memory: 1581.2/32112.1MB Client: >> Shell (zsh) inxi: 2.1.6 >> >> /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-monitor.conf: >> >> nvidia-settings: X configuration file generated by nvidia-settings >> # nvidia-settings: version 334.21 >> (buildmeister at swio-display-x64-rhel04-16) Thu Feb 27 14:36:51 PST >> 2014 >> >> Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "Layout0" Screen 0 >> "Screen0" 0 0 Screen 1 "Screen1" RightOf "Screen0" >> InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" InputDevice "Mouse0" >> "CorePointer" Option "Xinerama" "1" EndSection >> >> Section "Files" EndSection >> >> Section "InputDevice" # generated from default Identifier >> "Mouse0" Driver "mouse" Option "Protocol" "auto" >> Option "Device" "/dev/psaux" Option >> "Emulate3Buttons" "no" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" >> EndSection >> >> Section "InputDevice" # generated from default Identifier >> "Keyboard0" Driver "kbd" EndSection >> >> Section "Monitor" # HorizSync source: edid, VertRefresh source: >> edid Identifier "Monitor0" VendorName "Unknown" ModelName >> "BenQ GW2750H" HorizSync 30.0 - 83.0 VertRefresh 50.0 - >> 76.0 Option "DPMS" EndSection >> >> Section "Monitor" # HorizSync source: edid, VertRefresh source: >> edid Identifier "Monitor1" VendorName "Unknown" ModelName >> "BenQ GW2750H" HorizSync 30.0 - 83.0 VertRefresh 50.0 - >> 76.0 Option "DPMS" EndSection >> >> Section "Device" Identifier "Device0" Driver "nvidia" >> VendorName "NVIDIA Corporation" BoardName "GeForce GTX >> 760" BusID "PCI:2:0:0" Screen 0 EndSection >> >> Section "Device" Identifier "Device1" Driver "nvidia" >> VendorName "NVIDIA Corporation" BoardName "GeForce GTX >> 760" BusID "PCI:2:0:0" Screen 1 EndSection >> >> Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen0" Device "Device0" >> Monitor "Monitor0" DefaultDepth 24 Option >> "Stereo" "0" Option "metamodes" "DVI-D-0: >> nvidia-auto-select +0+0" Option "SLI" "Off" Option >> "MultiGPU" "Off" Option "BaseMosaic" "off" SubSection >> "Display" Depth 24 EndSubSection EndSection >> >> Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen1" Device "Device1" >> Monitor "Monitor1" DefaultDepth 24 Option >> "Stereo" "0" Option "metamodes" "HDMI-0: nvidia-auto-select >> +0+0" Option "SLI" "Off" Option "MultiGPU" "Off" >> Option "BaseMosaic" "off" SubSection "Display" Depth >> 24 EndSubSection EndSection >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing >>> List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List >> - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTK59MAAoJELWzpBXk2k3w/qYIAJkjHsDYZHVrYkkNKVqD7dt9 > 4oKDo13dmjysL/j2cg3tt2cD8fuGOLsELsxHnKmXMX7Cag/FsyhTfRdWBrFpjm9a > DEhub6DHNyO6V+BlPC65MjR+WqT0ant0AJt32prtuK2D6sapgOlL+HdlFbK25N4i > udZCIeB7WS8KIFLv/+Z+ZoIMd1ovZnuocmcixr50Vt8leXY4OxotiVdIQA0i4fOz > KDuO7CH0s6DYpVCkgruyarbR08ScpM+1dW6Fa/N0z/GoOZZJIHalqN0Z0ly4PHd5 > PvorMya/YQtuh2+Hn0PI2kUafvaQfLFZp851D5yj38Ozc0U4E7kecQuC/58e3nA= > =tzuU > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From eminmn at sysmatrix.net Fri Mar 21 15:08:24 2014 From: eminmn at sysmatrix.net (e.c.) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 15:08:24 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS In-Reply-To: <532AE133.3090808@gmail.com> References: <53263154.5000601@gmail.com> <4136613E-3AAD-4798-B97F-AAAF8D4F0984@me.com> <5329FCFA.5090901@kateley.com> <1C9AC7F0-BF60-4A23-84CD-03F249554BD4@me.com> <532AE133.3090808@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 7:38 AM, David Wagle wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I wasn't around, but I must say, while RMS is indisputably passionate > (in my opinion overly so) about semantics. I really it beyond the > reach of the believable that he would contact this group out of the > blue and demand a name change . . . > TCGLUG would go good with beer and pizza. Anyway RMS's supposed high-handedness has already been refuted by anecdotal evidence produced by someone who was there when he visited the U of M. In fact RMS is surprisingly approachable, by email at least. He personally answered me when I asked him a question about Emacs and even responded to my (unsolicited) views on the history of copyright. (maybe off-topic) Btw, what could "overly passionate about semantics" possibly mean? I am talking about denotation of course, not connotation. Like every strong writer, RMS is accutely aware that there is no such thing as strict synonymy. Ed > > On 03/20/2014 06:48 AM, Munir Nassar wrote: >> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:11 PM, wrote: >>> Again, RMS is the kind of person who contacted our group, and >>> tried to browbeat us into changing our name from The Twin Cities >>> Linux User's Group to The Twin Cities GNU/Linux User's Group. >>> >>> I think we're allowed to laugh at him a bit. >> >> I seem to recall it differently. The way i remember things >> happening is that someone contacted RMS to speak at a TCLUG meeting >> and he would only do it if the LUG changed its name. If only we had >> list archives to consult... >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List >> - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTKuEzAAoJELWzpBXk2k3w490IAJNCtE8ttsL1yN8re9K520nf > XdrYwK/96554E1oYEybiP9Dt0MOr84sujdX36WHoQd8MQ7mrfLY1qalZbt2blc4R > qLCFG5oVSW/8gAofoOaOrNd4as7HXfNNod+rR8E9NWQXaKlsWvkDbsXXrBskBgGM > nrRL6rGDxcYPZARi7YrEC1Khm0ElsM8YbaPnJgdQRYwU2FexGszO0M15ISiVG2BO > DrnBc7SGbLMM0TjxKehODg2tPrINNRMFT01LZaJtqeFOLNOaqjXONCAV64KCXg+A > zbn6qAO2hE72SpHE1MBR2eXf3D+5tZs1pMWbz0CEm3O33/DfZ2rFelCOCYI4jNU= > =qa9u > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com Fri Mar 21 18:54:53 2014 From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 18:54:53 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Free sanitized IDE drives Message-ID: Hoping to have someone take all. If no one claims them I'll drop them off at FreeGeek in a couple of days. * 5 IDE desktop drives, ranging from 40 to 250 GB * 1 IDE laptop drive, 60 GB Most of them work, but some may be on their last legs. I'm in South Minneapolis. -- Jeremy MountainJohnson Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri Mar 21 22:43:34 2014 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 22:43:34 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Happy B-Day RMS In-Reply-To: References: <53263154.5000601@gmail.com> <4136613E-3AAD-4798-B97F-AAAF8D4F0984@me.com> <5329FCFA.5090901@kateley.com> <1C9AC7F0-BF60-4A23-84CD-03F249554BD4@me.com> <532AE133.3090808@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Mar 2014, e.c. wrote: > In fact RMS is surprisingly approachable, by email at least. He > personally answered me when I asked him a question about Emacs and even > responded to my (unsolicited) views on the history of copyright. I've seen him get into discussion threads on LUGs more than once. If you cc him on a message to the list, don't be surprised if he chimes in. Mike From jazzyflute at gmail.com Sat Mar 22 08:11:54 2014 From: jazzyflute at gmail.com (Marc Thomas) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2014 08:11:54 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Ping paul g In-Reply-To: References: <53262147.6a94b60a.6eb0.ffff8da4@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Samuel, Its the Northfield Linux User Group, or NORLUG. You can check us out at www.norlug.org. There are links there to our various social media outlets including Google+ and our mailing list. On Mar 20, 2014 4:47 PM, "Samael" wrote: > different post, but interesting > What i love about FreeBSD and OpenBSD is the documentation. Time > consuming to learn but well worth it; and I just do it all for fun. > What was the name of that new Linux meetup group? > > > On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 9:40 AM, Marc Thomas wrote: > >> >To that end I would suggest the recently resurrected Northfield linux >> >users group (norlug). >> >They meet weekly at the Hideaway in Northfield- coffeehouse coders- and >> >are starting technical meetings this month. First one is on Raspberry >> >Pi. >> >> Harv, thanks for the NORLUG recognition! >> >> >Would anyone be willing to host a beginners Free BSD class? >> >> Paul: Great to see that your interested in Free BSD. I am the organizer >> of the Northfield Linux User Group. While I myself know very little about >> Free BSD, you are welcome to come to one of our weekly coffee house coders >> groups, or one of our technical meetings. Perhaps some other members may be >> able to help you. We meet every Monday evening at The Hideaway in downtown >> Northfield for some social time. Everyone generally brings projects they >> are working on, usually code or graphic design stuff but it's whatever you >> want. We also host technical meetings. Our first one since the group >> revived is this next Thursday. Perhaps we can look into hosting a Free BSD >> class at some point. >> >> Meeting up with people in person is definitely a valuable experience. >> When I first began learning Linux (Ubuntu) I was on forums, IRC, and >> mailing lists for a while before attending my first user group. It can be >> hard to learn something new when you don't know what questions to ask and >> what software and resources are available. >> >> >> On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 5:10 PM, harv <42dch42 at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On Sun, 16 Mar 2014 12:00:02 -0500 >>> tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org opined: >>> > From: paul g >>> > To: TCLUG Mailing List >>> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Ping paul g >>> > Message-ID: >>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>> > >>> > Thank you I am sorry to cause a problem I know I ask alot of questions >>> and I am very dumb. >>> > >>> > >>> NO! >>> You completely misunderstand my intent of initial post. >>> Probably partially my fault- communication skills not the best. >>> >>> First, if you are causing anyone problems, it certainly isn't me. ;) >>> >>> Second, asking questions on a list designed for the asking and >>> answering of questions can hardly be considered "dumb". >>> >>> Third, the only dumb question is the one that is NOT asked. >>> >>> What I was trying to do- as I stated- was give you another option for >>> quenching your thirst for knowledge. >>> >>> I find asking questions of like-minded individuals in a relaxed >>> environment- preferably over beverages- much more satisfying and in >>> some cases more productive than posting a question to a list then >>> waiting for a reply which may never come. >>> I thought perhaps the same may true for you so pointed out the norlug >>> option. >>> >>> -- >>> harv >>> >>> > > Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 01:23:08 -0500 >>> > > From: 42dch42 at gmail.com >>> > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> > > Subject: [tclug-list] Ping paul g >>> > > >>> > > Hey Paul, >>> > > Hope I'm not out of line here but you seem to be about where I was >>> > > 10-12yrs ago. >>> > > I bothered lists and forums across the 'net learning my way around >>> but >>> > > what was most helpful to me was face-time with knowledgeable folks. >>> > > >>> > > To that end I would suggest the recently resurrected Northfield linux >>> > > users group (norlug). >>> > > They meet weekly at the Hideaway in Northfield- coffeehouse coders- >>> and >>> > > are starting technical meetings this month. First one is on Raspberry >>> > > Pi. >>> > > >>> > > http://www.norlug.org/ >>> > > >>> > > Certainly not trying to dissuade you from posting here just pointing >>> > > out another helpful option for your quest for knowledge. >>> > > >>> > > harv >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Website : Google+ >> : Twitter : GitHub >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From galanolwe at yahoo.com Sat Mar 22 09:05:49 2014 From: galanolwe at yahoo.com (Olwe Bottorff) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2014 07:05:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Dog-slow home network Message-ID: <1395497149.88603.YahooMailNeo@web160303.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> We've got latest Ubuntu on all our computers at home. We've got Century Link DSL coming in on an Actiontec PK5000 Wifi modem. Problematic is when I try to use one of my computers as an ssh server. The transfer speeds are no better than 200k. That's much slower than USB2. Any ideas how I can improve the speed? NorShor Grand Marais, MN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joel.breazeale at gmail.com Sat Mar 22 09:44:24 2014 From: joel.breazeale at gmail.com (Joel Breazeale) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2014 09:44:24 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dog-slow home network In-Reply-To: <1395497149.88603.YahooMailNeo@web160303.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1395497149.88603.YahooMailNeo@web160303.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Olwe, Perhaps you have a lot of contention for the WIFI channel your router is using. Presuming you have an Android smart phone, install Wifi Analyzer and check. If so use another channel. --Joel On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 9:05 AM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > We've got latest Ubuntu on all our computers at home. We've got Century > Link DSL coming in on an Actiontec PK5000 Wifi modem. Problematic is when I > try to use one of my computers as an ssh server. The transfer speeds are no > better than 200k. That's much slower than USB2. Any ideas how I can improve > the speed? > > NorShor > Grand Marais, MN > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sat Mar 22 12:12:20 2014 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2014 12:12:20 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Dog-slow home network In-Reply-To: <1395497149.88603.YahooMailNeo@web160303.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1395497149.88603.YahooMailNeo@web160303.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Mar 2014, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > We've got latest Ubuntu on all our computers at home. We've got Century > Link DSL coming in on an Actiontec PK5000 Wifi modem. Problematic is > when I try to use one of my computers as an ssh server. The transfer > speeds are no better than 200k. That's much slower than USB2. Any ideas > how I can improve the speed? How do you do the test? Are you using scp? Can you compare that with other transfer methods like http or samba? Just curious if it's general slowness or ssh-specific slowness. I have the Actiontek Q1000 with Century Link. My server is connected by wire to a router, and from the router to the Actiontek. My laptop is using 802.11n. For transfers from server to laptop with http (wget) I'm seeing 4.9 MB/sec and with scp I'm seeing 4.6 MB/sec. I don't know if that is optimally fast, either. Mike From lkateley at kateley.com Sat Mar 22 12:46:30 2014 From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2014 12:46:30 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dog-slow home network In-Reply-To: <1395497149.88603.YahooMailNeo@web160303.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1395497149.88603.YahooMailNeo@web160303.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <532DCC76.1010305@kateley.com> Lately I have been having a ton of trouble with my century link dsl. My home network is mostly mac, I have my work network isolated(solaris, linux and bsd). I reset the modem and I am good to go. I had the same modem for 10 years and never a moments trouble, the last year.. I haven't gotten down to what the problem is.. Some of the conditions I have observed... I have twin 13 yo boys, when they have friends over, more than 2 we seems to tip it over... When I plug in the network box for directv.. Like to hear what other have to say too.. lk On 3/22/14, 9:05 AM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > We've got latest Ubuntu on all our computers at home. We've got > Century Link DSL coming in on an Actiontec PK5000 Wifi modem. > Problematic is when I try to use one of my computers as an ssh server. > The transfer speeds are no better than 200k. That's much slower than > USB2. Any ideas how I can improve the speed? > > NorShor > Grand Marais, MN > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmore at starmind.org Sat Mar 22 12:50:05 2014 From: jmore at starmind.org (Josh More) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2014 12:50:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dog-slow home network In-Reply-To: <532DCC76.1010305@kateley.com> References: <1395497149.88603.YahooMailNeo@web160303.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <532DCC76.1010305@kateley.com> Message-ID: Back when I had CenturyLink (when it was called Qwest), I had slow service every spring. It turned out to be small breaks in the cable that caused the signal to attenuate when the ground was wet, waterlogged by snow. We replaced the line and all the problems went away. -Josh On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:46 PM, Linda Kateley wrote: > Lately I have been having a ton of trouble with my century link dsl. My > home network is mostly mac, I have my work network isolated(solaris, linux > and bsd). I reset the modem and I am good to go. I had the same modem for > 10 years and never a moments trouble, the last year.. I haven't gotten down > to what the problem is.. Some of the conditions I have observed... > > I have twin 13 yo boys, when they have friends over, more than 2 we seems > to tip it over... > > When I plug in the network box for directv.. > > Like to hear what other have to say too.. > > lk > > > On 3/22/14, 9:05 AM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > > We've got latest Ubuntu on all our computers at home. We've got Century > Link DSL coming in on an Actiontec PK5000 Wifi modem. Problematic is when I > try to use one of my computers as an ssh server. The transfer speeds are no > better than 200k. That's much slower than USB2. Any ideas how I can improve > the speed? > > NorShor > Grand Marais, MN > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sfertch at gmail.com Sat Mar 22 12:52:56 2014 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2014 12:52:56 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dog-slow home network In-Reply-To: <1395497149.88603.YahooMailNeo@web160303.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1395497149.88603.YahooMailNeo@web160303.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 9:05 AM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > We've got latest Ubuntu on all our computers at home. We've got Century > Link DSL coming in on an Actiontec PK5000 Wifi modem. Problematic is when I > try to use one of my computers as an ssh server. The transfer speeds are no > better than 200k. That's much slower than USB2. Any ideas how I can improve > the speed? > > NorShor > Grand Marais, MN > > Start simple: Check all your network settings to ensure you're running at a speed and duplex for your network. Then, look at your gateway, routes, etc. Also, do you have IPv6 enabled, on a network that doesn't support it? -- -Shawn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.wagle at gmail.com Sat Mar 22 15:08:28 2014 From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2014 15:08:28 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dog-slow home network In-Reply-To: <1395497149.88603.YahooMailNeo@web160303.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1395497149.88603.YahooMailNeo@web160303.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <532DEDBC.6050707@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Troubleshooting a home network can be just a thrilling experience . . . Do you have admin rights on the modem and does it do logging? if not .. step 1 might be to go get a decent wireless router and hang it off the modem and move your network administration into your control. if so, can you post some logging data of a typical ssh connection for us to look at? On 03/22/2014 09:05 AM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > We've got latest Ubuntu on all our computers at home. We've got > Century Link DSL coming in on an Actiontec PK5000 Wifi modem. > Problematic is when I try to use one of my computers as an ssh > server. The transfer speeds are no better than 200k. That's much > slower than USB2. Any ideas how I can improve the speed? > > NorShor Grand Marais, MN > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List > - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTLe28AAoJELWzpBXk2k3w0KQH/2c0teizJxHc+wgQOTG/QEVH LZRgmvVV4KiMMXSazOdNidvAoSx6ERwg8dyCGsrpbRkEkRydwAXXcgYtm3Et0PsU m7WJq1nfRkVrIRV/1kMJ+vFeG4yegDFSeUwQQXTt3j3ZU2sTU4w7nMHlNjI2edDq wSZWHVmQ597ZLQCEqPBgzQVqlzRM2/DewWcEgsGwYnbDiu0qyAlZADRjoKCkebeb dL8gmDrYVMrDARRp/l6hMj0m4tlj2a6FqrgThbQsFmLjLNELR5UznG6bjtaEdD89 VNg2RXUKLjJKkrXwMCWMwBkHs6U09JDEjaZm5zr3kQXnxLDbM4SujS4Zi5s9ep8= =PSjM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com Mon Mar 24 12:29:47 2014 From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 12:29:47 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Free sanitized IDE drives (GONE) Message-ID: These were picked up, thanks for the inquires! -- Jeremy MountainJohnson Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 6:54 PM, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote: > Hoping to have someone take all. If no one claims them I'll drop them > off at FreeGeek in a couple of days. > > * 5 IDE desktop drives, ranging from 40 to 250 GB > * 1 IDE laptop drive, 60 GB > > Most of them work, but some may be on their last legs. I'm in South Minneapolis. > > -- > Jeremy MountainJohnson > Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com From john.a.frisk at gmail.com Mon Mar 24 12:50:31 2014 From: john.a.frisk at gmail.com (John Frisk) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 12:50:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound March Meeting Message-ID: Please join the Penguins Unbound group at TIES this Saturday March 29th @ 10AM central. We'll be discussing Arduino. There is a great agenda posted already: http://www.penguinsunbound.com/Meetings/20140329_-_Arduino Location and other information can be found: http://www.penguinsunbound.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Mon Mar 24 17:45:16 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 17:45:16 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] About Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 Message-ID: I ended up downloading the latest firefox28 from the firefox site extracted the .tar and copied it into /opt/firefox Then I created a menu entry in Gnome and pointed it to /opt/firefox/firefox.sh firefox loads up with old bookmarks through the menu although: why when I do a 'locate firefox' in terminal many entries show up? A few more than listed below but this is the just of it. /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/libs/img/firefox-3.5.png /var/lib/dpkg/alternatives/firefox-homepage /var/lib/dpkg/info/firefox-branding.list /var/lib/dpkg/info/firefox-branding.md5sums /var/lib/dpkg/info/firefox-gnome-support.list /var/lib/dpkg/info/firefox-gnome-support.md5sums /var/lib/dpkg/info/firefox-locale-en.list /var/lib/dpkg/info/firefox-locale-en.md5sums /var/lib/dpkg/info/firefox-locale-en.preinst /var/lib/dpkg/info/firefox.conffiles /var/lib/dpkg/info/firefox.list /var/lib/dpkg/info/firefox.md5sums /var/lib/dpkg/info/firefox.postinst /var/lib/dpkg/info/firefox.postrm /var/lib/dpkg/info/firefox.preinst /var/lib/dpkg/info/firefox.prerm There are even entries shown under /usr/lib and /usr/bin which I did not include here. When I 'cd' into the /var/lib/dpkg/info and perform an 'ls -lah' no entries for firefox show up that way. Also alt+F2 no longer allows me to open firefox: Error stating file '/home/paul/firefox': No such file or directory How can I get alt+F2 to open firefox or make it system wide? I did run 'rm -r firefox' in /usr/bin after removing the old version of firefox20 via synaptic Thanks -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Mon Mar 24 18:22:41 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 18:22:41 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] easy to mount existing harddisks In-Reply-To: <531E86FE.5010201@e-skinner.net> References: , , <531E86FE.5010201@e-skinner.net> Message-ID: With LUKS installed on the complete partition of the drive /home as well as file system. Is it still possible to access Grub2 with the right shift during boot? I spent some time reading about Grub2 last night and how to password protect it but apparently it's bypassible even with admin user password enabled via being edited the Grub2 menu_line somehow. I tried to access the Grub boot menu with right shift and got no result. The system is currently running kernel version: 3.11.0-12-generic #19-Ubuntu grub-install -v unshare failed: Operation not permitted grub-install.real (GRUB) 2.00-19ubuntu2.1 Thanks > Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 22:46:06 -0500 > From: marc at e-skinner.net > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] easy to mount existing harddisks > > I"m a big fan of LUKS: > > https://access.redhat.com/site/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/6/html/Security_Guide/sect-Security_Guide-LUKS_Disk_Encryption.html > > I use it on my /home LVM partition, and every time I boot my machine it > prompts me in a nice graphical format for my LUKS pass phrase. > > > > > On 03/08/2014 09:08 AM, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote: > > Truecrypt is probably easier than gpg IMO considering it's user > > friendly gui in Linux. It will accept the use of either it's GTK gui > > or cli for mounting encrypted containers and partitions. Whereas gpg > > is mostly cli based with some key management gui options to my > > knowledge. > > -- > > Jeremy MountainJohnson > > Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 11:19 PM, paul g wrote: > >> I could see how easily it was to mount and search an unencrypted drive while > >> using a simple bootable .iso. > >> > >> Is Truecrypt easier than GPG i'm confused. > >> > >> I was able to set up a Truecrypt container. > >> > >> Sorry to be a bother. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Mar 24 20:24:57 2014 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 20:24:57 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound March Meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Mar 2014, John Frisk wrote: > Please join the Penguins Unbound group at TIES this Saturday March 29th > @ 10AM central. We'll be discussing Arduino. There is a great agenda > posted already: > > http://www.penguinsunbound.com/Meetings/20140329_-_Arduino > > Location and other information can be found: > > http://www.penguinsunbound.com/ Very interesting. I'd like to see more about Arduino, so I looked for videos... http://www.google.com/search?q=arduino&tbm=vid I'm mostly interested in the very basic question, "what might I do with this thing?" so I found this one pretty helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqrQmQqpHXc This one got into the development history and a lot about how this is an open source open hardware project, which was pretty cool: http://vimeo.com/18539129 I would love to see more cool examples of things people have done with Arduino. Mike From john.a.frisk at gmail.com Mon Mar 24 21:31:59 2014 From: john.a.frisk at gmail.com (John Frisk) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 21:31:59 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound March Meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Mike, I think Jack will have some pretty cool examples on Saturday. I also have a friend that built a rumba style cleaner with it for the motor movement as well as a sensor type machine to monitor snow making for a hill he skis down in the winter. On Mar 24, 2014 8:25 PM, "Mike Miller" wrote: > On Mon, 24 Mar 2014, John Frisk wrote: > > Please join the Penguins Unbound group at TIES this Saturday March 29th @ >> 10AM central. We'll be discussing Arduino. There is a great agenda posted >> already: >> >> http://www.penguinsunbound.com/Meetings/20140329_-_Arduino >> >> Location and other information can be found: >> >> http://www.penguinsunbound.com/ >> > > > Very interesting. I'd like to see more about Arduino, so I looked for > videos... > > http://www.google.com/search?q=arduino&tbm=vid > > I'm mostly interested in the very basic question, "what might I do with > this thing?" so I found this one pretty helpful: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqrQmQqpHXc > > This one got into the development history and a lot about how this is an > open source open hardware project, which was pretty cool: > > http://vimeo.com/18539129 > > I would love to see more cool examples of things people have done with > Arduino. > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From galanolwe at yahoo.com Mon Mar 24 23:27:52 2014 From: galanolwe at yahoo.com (Olwe Bottorff) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 21:27:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] How to set up home web server. Message-ID: <1395721672.84244.YahooMailNeo@web160305.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I'm on U13.10 on all home machines. I've got apache set up on one machine and it's running fine. I used this article ( http://tuxtweaks.com/2009/07/how-to-configure-apache-linux/ ) to allow access to personal home folders, i.e., not the default /var/www/... ?That works fine on the same machine. My problem is I want to be able to do this trick across my Wifi network. That is, I want to access my apache web server from another machine into one of the home directories. Going to http://192.168.0.x works, but goes to /var/www , but http://192.168.0.x/homedir/ gives a "Not found" error. Again, on the apache machine itself this works fine, i.e., http://homedir/ ?(as described in the Tux Tweaks article). I thought of adding a line to /etc/hosts to tell about 192.168.0.x homedir, but that didn't work. Any ideas? LB North Shore -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Tue Mar 25 00:34:05 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 00:34:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] How to set up home web server. In-Reply-To: <1395721672.84244.YahooMailNeo@web160305.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1395721672.84244.YahooMailNeo@web160305.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Typically it?s http://x.x.x.x/~username/ in Apache? The page you linked to is not the homedir example you want. Check out mod_userdir: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/mod_userdir.html On Mar 24, 2014, at 11:27 PM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > I'm on U13.10 on all home machines. I've got apache set up on one machine and it's running fine. I used this article ( http://tuxtweaks.com/2009/07/how-to-configure-apache-linux/ ) to allow access to personal home folders, i.e., not the default /var/www/... That works fine on the same machine. My problem is I want to be able to do this trick across my Wifi network. That is, I want to access my apache web server from another machine into one of the home directories. Going to http://192.168.0.x works, but goes to /var/www , but http://192.168.0.x/homedir/ gives a "Not found" error. Again, on the apache machine itself this works fine, i.e., http://homedir/ (as described in the Tux Tweaks article). I thought of adding a line to /etc/hosts to tell about 192.168.0.x homedir, but that didn't work. Any ideas? > > LB > North Shore > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Tue Mar 25 11:45:08 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 11:45:08 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] About Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Replies in-line. On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 5:45 PM, paul g wrote: > I ended up downloading the latest firefox28 from the firefox site > extracted the .tar and copied it into /opt/firefox > > Then I created a menu entry in Gnome and pointed it to > /opt/firefox/firefox.sh > > firefox loads up with old bookmarks through the menu although: > > why when I do a 'locate firefox' in terminal many entries show up? A few > more than listed below but this is the just of it. > The 'locate' command uses a pre-created database of file names. If you have not re-run 'updatedb' after creating a file, 'locate' will not know about it. Locate will return any file that matches the pattern you gave it. > > /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/libs/img/firefox-3.5.png > /var/lib/dpkg/alternatives/firefox-homepage > /var/lib/dpkg/info/firefox-branding.list > /var/lib/dpkg/info/firefox-branding.md5sums > /var/lib/dpkg/info/firefox-gnome-support.list > /var/lib/dpkg/info/firefox-gnome-support.md5sums > /var/lib/dpkg/info/firefox-locale-en.list > /var/lib/dpkg/info/firefox-locale-en.md5sums > /var/lib/dpkg/info/firefox-locale-en.preinst > /var/lib/dpkg/info/firefox.conffiles > /var/lib/dpkg/info/firefox.list > /var/lib/dpkg/info/firefox.md5sums > /var/lib/dpkg/info/firefox.postinst > /var/lib/dpkg/info/firefox.postrm > /var/lib/dpkg/info/firefox.preinst > /var/lib/dpkg/info/firefox.prerm > > There are even entries shown under /usr/lib and /usr/bin which I did not > include here. > > When I 'cd' into the /var/lib/dpkg/info and perform an 'ls -lah' no > entries for firefox show up that way. > > This is related to my previous comment. If these have been deleted since the last time updatedb has been run, locate will still think they are there. Also alt+F2 no longer allows me to open firefox: Error stating file > '/home/paul/firefox': No such file or directory > > How can I get alt+F2 to open firefox or make it system wide? > You need to add the new location for firefox to your PATH variable. The PATH variable is a list of locations to look in when you do not provide the full path to a command, such as 'firefox'. echo $PATH <-- shows the current value export PATH=$PATH:/opt/firefox <-- would add the new location you need to put this in .bashrc or .bash_profile for it to stick with all new sessions. You should also note, earlier you ran 'firefox.sh', but in your alt-f2 example, you ran just 'firefox', which may or may not work. I have never installed this way, so I am not sure what all comes in the tarball. > > I did run 'rm -r firefox' in /usr/bin after removing the old version of > firefox20 via synaptic > > And that would be why you see files with 'locate' that are no longer there -- you deleted them. > Thanks > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Mar 25 12:54:39 2014 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 12:54:39 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] About Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Mar 2014, Jeff Chapin wrote: > On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 5:45 PM, paul g wrote: > >> why when I do a 'locate firefox' in terminal many entries show up? A >> few more than listed below but this is the just of it. > > The 'locate' command uses a pre-created database of file names. If you > have not re-run 'updatedb' after creating a file, 'locate' will not know > about it. Locate will return any file that matches the pattern you gave > it. Also, with "locate", the default is to match any pattern in the entire path to a file or directory. Example: locate bin | less The name of the file or directory itself, excluding parent directories in its path, is called its basename. There is an option in "locate" to search only the basename. From "man locate": -b, --basename Match only the base name against the specified patterns. This is the opposite of --wholename. -w, --wholename Match only the whole path name against the specified patterns. This is the default behavior. The opposite can be specified using --basename. I have a lot of small files on my system, but I still see a very dramatic drop in the number of matches when I use the -b option: $ locate bin | wc -l 28241 $ locate -b bin | wc -l 4826 It's not quite relevant to the question about "locate", but I'll mention that there is a program called "basename" (and another called "dirname"): Usage: basename NAME [SUFFIX] or: basename OPTION Print NAME with any leading directory components removed. If specified, also remove a trailing SUFFIX. --help display this help and exit --version output version information and exit Examples: basename /usr/bin/sort Output "sort". basename include/stdio.h .h Output "stdio". Usage: dirname NAME or: dirname OPTION Print NAME with its trailing /component removed; if NAME contains no /'s, output `.' (meaning the current directory). --help display this help and exit --version output version information and exit Examples: dirname /usr/bin/sort Output "/usr/bin". dirname stdio.h Output ".". From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Mar 25 15:48:45 2014 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 15:48:45 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Bash bug Message-ID: Here's a bug I just discovered in GNU Bash. It's in this version: GNU bash, version 3.2.25(1)-release (x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) Copyright (C) 2005 Free Software Foundation, Inc. I make two files of one character each: $ echo A > foo $ echo B > bar This works as expected: $ echo -e 'C\nD' | paste <(cat foo bar) - A C B D This should do the same thing but it fails: $ echo -e 'C\nD' | paste <(cat ./{foo,bar}) - A B C D That's pretty bad! I have to be careful. Strangely, it's all about the use of "<()" for process substitution because this behaves normally: $ cat ./{foo,bar} A B This newer version of Bash does not have the same problem: GNU bash, version 4.0.33(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Copyright (C) 2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc. Unfortunately, our rocks cluster built on CentOS is using the old version of Bash. Another University machine is running this old version and it also has the bug: GNU bash, version 2.05b.0(1)-release (i386-redhat-linux-gnu) Copyright (C) 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc. So my own boxes are OK, all using Bash 4 and Ubuntu, but I can't upgrade Bash on these other machines without requesting help. Mike From pj.world at hotmail.com Tue Mar 25 15:58:02 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 15:58:02 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] About Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: You have helped tremendously paul at paul-desktop:~$ sudo updatedb paul at paul-desktop:~$ locate -b firefox /home/paul/.cache/mozilla/firefox /home/paul/.mozilla/firefox /home/paul/.mozilla/firefox/bkbapzwn.default/extensions/firefox at ghostery.com.xpi /home/paul/.mozilla/firefox/bkbapzwn.default/jetpack/firefox at ghostery.com /home/paul/Downloads/tor-browser_en-US/.mozilla/firefox /home/paul/Downloads/tor-browser_en-US/App/Firefox/firefox /home/paul/Downloads/tor-browser_en-US/App/Firefox/firefox-bin /opt/firefox /opt/firefox/firefox /opt/firefox/firefox-bin /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-greasemonkey.desktop /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-launchpad-plugin.desktop /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-ubuntu-it-menu.desktop /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-webdeveloper.desktop /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox.desktop /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-greasemonkey.xpm /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-installer.png /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-launchpad-plugin.xpm /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-themes-ubuntu.xpm /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-ubuntu-it-menu.png /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-webdeveloper.xpm /usr/share/icons/firefox.jpg /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/common/prepare-firefox-startpage-translations /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/libs/img/firefox-3.5.png paul at paul-desktop:~$ paul at paul-desktop:~$ echo $PATH /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games Obviously /usr/opt is not shown in the above output. paul at paul-desktop:~$ sudo updatedb paul at paul-desktop:~$ locate -b bash /bin/bash /bin/rbash /etc/bash.bashrc /etc/bash_completion /etc/bash_completion.d /etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/bash /etc/bash_completion.d/bash-builtins /etc/bash_completion.d/gvfs-bash-completion.sh /etc/bash_completion.d/pk-completion.bash /etc/skel/.bash_logout /etc/skel/.bashrc /home/paul/.bash_history /home/paul/.bash_logout /home/paul/.bashrc to add the entire following line----> export Path=$PATH:/opt/firefox Do I include the word 'export'? For a deep system wide approach would '/home/paul/.bashrc' be the correct file to edit in this case that sticks for all sessions? I am not seeing a '.bash_profile' file after using 'locate -b bash' I read you said I could edit either of the 2 files. Maybe the .bash_profile file is on different distro's I do not know yet. Thanks > Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 12:54:39 -0500 > From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] About Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 > > On Tue, 25 Mar 2014, Jeff Chapin wrote: > > > On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 5:45 PM, paul g wrote: > > > >> why when I do a 'locate firefox' in terminal many entries show up? A > >> few more than listed below but this is the just of it. > > > > The 'locate' command uses a pre-created database of file names. If you > > have not re-run 'updatedb' after creating a file, 'locate' will not know > > about it. Locate will return any file that matches the pattern you gave > > it. > > Also, with "locate", the default is to match any pattern in the entire > path to a file or directory. Example: > > locate bin | less > > The name of the file or directory itself, excluding parent directories in > its path, is called its basename. There is an option in "locate" to > search only the basename. From "man locate": > > -b, --basename > Match only the base name against the specified patterns. This > is the opposite of --wholename. > > -w, --wholename > Match only the whole path name against the specified patterns. > This is the default behavior. The opposite can be specified > using --basename. > > I have a lot of small files on my system, but I still see a very dramatic > drop in the number of matches when I use the -b option: > > $ locate bin | wc -l > 28241 > > $ locate -b bin | wc -l > 4826 > > > It's not quite relevant to the question about "locate", but I'll mention > that there is a program called "basename" (and another called "dirname"): > > > Usage: basename NAME [SUFFIX] > or: basename OPTION > Print NAME with any leading directory components removed. > If specified, also remove a trailing SUFFIX. > > --help display this help and exit > --version output version information and exit > > Examples: > basename /usr/bin/sort Output "sort". > basename include/stdio.h .h Output "stdio". > > > > Usage: dirname NAME > or: dirname OPTION > Print NAME with its trailing /component removed; if NAME contains no /'s, > output `.' (meaning the current directory). > > --help display this help and exit > --version output version information and exit > > Examples: > dirname /usr/bin/sort Output "/usr/bin". > dirname stdio.h Output ".". > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Mar 25 16:40:10 2014 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 16:40:10 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Bash bug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think this shows the bug in a simpler way: $ echo A > foo ; echo B > bar $ echo ./{foo,bar} ./foo ./bar $ cat <(echo ./{foo,bar}) ./foo ./bar Why does process substitution add the newline? It doesn't happen when the files are listed separately, not using the {} syntax: $ echo ./foo ./bar ./foo ./bar $ cat <(echo ./foo ./bar) ./foo ./bar Apparently, this bug was fixed in newer Bash. It's not that big of a deal now that I know about it! Mike On Tue, 25 Mar 2014, Mike Miller wrote: > Here's a bug I just discovered in GNU Bash. It's in this version: > > GNU bash, version 3.2.25(1)-release (x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) > Copyright (C) 2005 Free Software Foundation, Inc. > > I make two files of one character each: > > $ echo A > foo > $ echo B > bar > > > This works as expected: > > $ echo -e 'C\nD' | paste <(cat foo bar) - > A C > B D > > > This should do the same thing but it fails: > > $ echo -e 'C\nD' | paste <(cat ./{foo,bar}) - > A B C > D > > That's pretty bad! I have to be careful. Strangely, it's all about the use > of "<()" for process substitution because this behaves normally: > > $ cat ./{foo,bar} > A > B > > This newer version of Bash does not have the same problem: > > GNU bash, version 4.0.33(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) > Copyright (C) 2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc. > > > Unfortunately, our rocks cluster built on CentOS is using the old version of > Bash. Another University machine is running this old version and it also has > the bug: > > GNU bash, version 2.05b.0(1)-release (i386-redhat-linux-gnu) > Copyright (C) 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc. > > > So my own boxes are OK, all using Bash 4 and Ubuntu, but I can't upgrade Bash > on these other machines without requesting help. > > Mike > From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com Tue Mar 25 16:57:12 2014 From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (kelly) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 16:57:12 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Bash bug References: Message-ID: <5331FBB8-0006F577@penguinpackets.com> Just switch to Javascipt: > "5" - 2 3 > "5" + 2 "52" Ha. Kelly KB0GBJ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Tue Mar 25 17:11:03 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 17:11:03 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] About Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Replies inline. On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 3:58 PM, paul g wrote: > You have helped tremendously > > paul at paul-desktop:~$ sudo updatedb > paul at paul-desktop:~$ locate -b firefox > /home/paul/.cache/mozilla/firefox > /home/paul/.mozilla/firefox > > /home/paul/.mozilla/firefox/bkbapzwn.default/extensions/firefox at ghostery.com.xpi > /home/paul/.mozilla/firefox/bkbapzwn.default/jetpack/firefox at ghostery.com > /home/paul/Downloads/tor-browser_en-US/.mozilla/firefox > /home/paul/Downloads/tor-browser_en-US/App/Firefox/firefox > /home/paul/Downloads/tor-browser_en-US/App/Firefox/firefox-bin > /opt/firefox > /opt/firefox/firefox > /opt/firefox/firefox-bin > /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-greasemonkey.desktop > /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-launchpad-plugin.desktop > /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-ubuntu-it-menu.desktop > /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-webdeveloper.desktop > /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox.desktop > /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-greasemonkey.xpm > /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-installer.png > /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-launchpad-plugin.xpm > /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-themes-ubuntu.xpm > /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-ubuntu-it-menu.png > /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-webdeveloper.xpm > /usr/share/icons/firefox.jpg > /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/common/prepare-firefox-startpage-translations > /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/libs/img/firefox-3.5.png > paul at paul-desktop:~$ > > paul at paul-desktop:~$ echo $PATH > /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games > > Obviously /usr/opt is not shown in the above output. > > paul at paul-desktop:~$ sudo updatedb > paul at paul-desktop:~$ locate -b bash > /bin/bash > /bin/rbash > /etc/bash.bashrc > /etc/bash_completion > /etc/bash_completion.d > /etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/bash > /etc/bash_completion.d/bash-builtins > /etc/bash_completion.d/gvfs-bash-completion.sh > /etc/bash_completion.d/pk-completion.bash > /etc/skel/.bash_logout > /etc/skel/.bashrc > /home/paul/.bash_history > /home/paul/.bash_logout > /home/paul/.bashrc > > to add the entire following line----> export Path=$PATH:/opt/firefox > > Do I include the word 'export'? > Yes. PATH is simply a variable used to hold the list of directories. You *can* do just 'PATH=$PATH:/usr/opt', but including the export is a better, more recommended way to do it. This will immediately change the value for the currently logged in shell session *only* > For a deep system wide approach would '/home/paul/.bashrc' be the correct > file to edit in this case that sticks for all sessions? > Editing '/home/paul/.bashrc' would be *account* wide -- all *new* shell sessions you open will have the updated value -- but not the existing ones. This should also include the shell used in Alt-F2, but I don't use that feature, so I am not sure. To go 'system wide' you would usually edit /etc/bashrc or add a new script to /etc/profile.d/ with the changes you want. These correspond to .bashrc and .bash_profile -- the .bashrc in your home directory will *include* /etc/bashrc, so these changes will appear for all users. Various distrobutions handle these two files differently. I am used to Red Hat based systems, and I have always been told use the bashrc files for functions and aliases, and .bash_profile for environmental variables -- but I tend to put everything in .bashrc anyway. These two files behave slightly differently, and rather than explain it myself, I am going to refer you to a resource I found via my good friend Google: http://www.joshstaiger.org/archives/2005/07/bash_profile_vs.html Jeff > I am not seeing a '.bash_profile' file after using 'locate -b bash' I read > you said I could edit either of the 2 files. Maybe the .bash_profile file > is on different distro's I do not know yet. > > > Thanks > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 12:54:39 -0500 > > From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] About Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 > > > > > On Tue, 25 Mar 2014, Jeff Chapin wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 5:45 PM, paul g wrote: > > > > > >> why when I do a 'locate firefox' in terminal many entries show up? A > > >> few more than listed below but this is the just of it. > > > > > > The 'locate' command uses a pre-created database of file names. If you > > > have not re-run 'updatedb' after creating a file, 'locate' will not > know > > > about it. Locate will return any file that matches the pattern you > gave > > > it. > > > > Also, with "locate", the default is to match any pattern in the entire > > path to a file or directory. Example: > > > > locate bin | less > > > > The name of the file or directory itself, excluding parent directories > in > > its path, is called its basename. There is an option in "locate" to > > search only the basename. From "man locate": > > > > -b, --basename > > Match only the base name against the specified patterns. This > > is the opposite of --wholename. > > > > -w, --wholename > > Match only the whole path name against the specified patterns. > > This is the default behavior. The opposite can be specified > > using --basename. > > > > I have a lot of small files on my system, but I still see a very > dramatic > > drop in the number of matches when I use the -b option: > > > > $ locate bin | wc -l > > 28241 > > > > $ locate -b bin | wc -l > > 4826 > > > > > > It's not quite relevant to the question about "locate", but I'll mention > > that there is a program called "basename" (and another called "dirname"): > > > > > > Usage: basename NAME [SUFFIX] > > or: basename OPTION > > Print NAME with any leading directory components removed. > > If specified, also remove a trailing SUFFIX. > > > > --help display this help and exit > > --version output version information and exit > > > > Examples: > > basename /usr/bin/sort Output "sort". > > basename include/stdio.h .h Output "stdio". > > > > > > > > Usage: dirname NAME > > or: dirname OPTION > > Print NAME with its trailing /component removed; if NAME contains no /'s, > > output `.' (meaning the current directory). > > > > --help display this help and exit > > --version output version information and exit > > > > Examples: > > dirname /usr/bin/sort Output "/usr/bin". > > dirname stdio.h Output ".". > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Tue Mar 25 18:58:48 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 18:58:48 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] About Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 In-Reply-To: References: , , , , Message-ID: Thank you Jeff and Mike To ask another question if I may? Does it matter if no existing PATH entry is seen in /home/paul/.bashrc at this time? Where do 'echo $PATH' varibles come from are they built into bash upon installation of the OS? --------> /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games <-------- Will placing 'export Path=$PATH:/opt/firefox' in the '/home/paul/.bashrc' file at the bottom of the .bashrc file or top or middle matter? Allow me to not get the 'firefox not installed use apt-get to install' message when I try to load firefox from the bash terminal? Does it matter if Path-PATH is lower case or upper case at the beginning of the string? Thanks, Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 17:11:03 -0500 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] About Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 Replies inline. On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 3:58 PM, paul g wrote: You have helped tremendously paul at paul-desktop:~$ sudo updatedb paul at paul-desktop:~$ locate -b firefox /home/paul/.cache/mozilla/firefox /home/paul/.mozilla/firefox /home/paul/.mozilla/firefox/bkbapzwn.default/extensions/firefox at ghostery.com.xpi /home/paul/.mozilla/firefox/bkbapzwn.default/jetpack/firefox at ghostery.com /home/paul/Downloads/tor-browser_en-US/.mozilla/firefox /home/paul/Downloads/tor-browser_en-US/App/Firefox/firefox /home/paul/Downloads/tor-browser_en-US/App/Firefox/firefox-bin /opt/firefox /opt/firefox/firefox /opt/firefox/firefox-bin /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-greasemonkey.desktop /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-launchpad-plugin.desktop /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-ubuntu-it-menu.desktop /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-webdeveloper.desktop /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox.desktop /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-greasemonkey.xpm /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-installer.png /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-launchpad-plugin.xpm /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-themes-ubuntu.xpm /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-ubuntu-it-menu.png /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-webdeveloper.xpm /usr/share/icons/firefox.jpg /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/common/prepare-firefox-startpage-translations /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/libs/img/firefox-3.5.png paul at paul-desktop:~$ paul at paul-desktop:~$ echo $PATH /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games Obviously /usr/opt is not shown in the above output. paul at paul-desktop:~$ sudo updatedb paul at paul-desktop:~$ locate -b bash /bin/bash /bin/rbash /etc/bash.bashrc /etc/bash_completion /etc/bash_completion.d /etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/bash /etc/bash_completion.d/bash-builtins /etc/bash_completion.d/gvfs-bash-completion.sh /etc/bash_completion.d/pk-completion.bash /etc/skel/.bash_logout /etc/skel/.bashrc /home/paul/.bash_history /home/paul/.bash_logout /home/paul/.bashrc to add the entire following line----> export Path=$PATH:/opt/firefox Do I include the word 'export'? Yes. PATH is simply a variable used to hold the list of directories. You *can* do just 'PATH=$PATH:/usr/opt', but including the export is a better, more recommended way to do it. This will immediately change the value for the currently logged in shell session *only* For a deep system wide approach would '/home/paul/.bashrc' be the correct file to edit in this case that sticks for all sessions? Editing '/home/paul/.bashrc' would be *account* wide -- all *new* shell sessions you open will have the updated value -- but not the existing ones. This should also include the shell used in Alt-F2, but I don't use that feature, so I am not sure. To go 'system wide' you would usually edit /etc/bashrc or add a new script to /etc/profile.d/ with the changes you want. These correspond to .bashrc and .bash_profile -- the .bashrc in your home directory will *include* /etc/bashrc, so these changes will appear for all users. Various distrobutions handle these two files differently. I am used to Red Hat based systems, and I have always been told use the bashrc files for functions and aliases, and .bash_profile for environmental variables -- but I tend to put everything in .bashrc anyway. These two files behave slightly differently, and rather than explain it myself, I am going to refer you to a resource I found via my good friend Google: http://www.joshstaiger.org/archives/2005/07/bash_profile_vs.html Jeff I am not seeing a '.bash_profile' file after using 'locate -b bash' I read you said I could edit either of the 2 files. Maybe the .bash_profile file is on different distro's I do not know yet. Thanks > Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 12:54:39 -0500 > From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] About Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 > > On Tue, 25 Mar 2014, Jeff Chapin wrote: > > > On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 5:45 PM, paul g wrote: > > > >> why when I do a 'locate firefox' in terminal many entries show up? A > >> few more than listed below but this is the just of it. > > > > The 'locate' command uses a pre-created database of file names. If you > > have not re-run 'updatedb' after creating a file, 'locate' will not know > > about it. Locate will return any file that matches the pattern you gave > > it. > > Also, with "locate", the default is to match any pattern in the entire > path to a file or directory. Example: > > locate bin | less > > The name of the file or directory itself, excluding parent directories in > its path, is called its basename. There is an option in "locate" to > search only the basename. From "man locate": > > -b, --basename > Match only the base name against the specified patterns. This > is the opposite of --wholename. > > -w, --wholename > Match only the whole path name against the specified patterns. > This is the default behavior. The opposite can be specified > using --basename. > > I have a lot of small files on my system, but I still see a very dramatic > drop in the number of matches when I use the -b option: > > $ locate bin | wc -l > 28241 > > $ locate -b bin | wc -l > 4826 > > > It's not quite relevant to the question about "locate", but I'll mention > that there is a program called "basename" (and another called "dirname"): > > > Usage: basename NAME [SUFFIX] > or: basename OPTION > Print NAME with any leading directory components removed. > If specified, also remove a trailing SUFFIX. > > --help display this help and exit > --version output version information and exit > > Examples: > basename /usr/bin/sort Output "sort". > basename include/stdio.h .h Output "stdio". > > > > Usage: dirname NAME > or: dirname OPTION > Print NAME with its trailing /component removed; if NAME contains no /'s, > output `.' (meaning the current directory). > > --help display this help and exit > --version output version information and exit > > Examples: > dirname /usr/bin/sort Output "/usr/bin". > dirname stdio.h Output ".". > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Tue Mar 25 19:07:28 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 19:07:28 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] About Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Replies inline On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 6:58 PM, paul g wrote: > Thank you Jeff and Mike > > To ask another question if I may? > > Does it matter if no existing PATH entry is seen in /home/paul/.bashrc at > this time? > No, it does not matter. The example I gave you appends to the existing values, so it is safe to use in this case. > > Where do 'echo $PATH' varibles come from are they built into bash upon > installation of the OS? > --------> > /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games > <-------- > These are likely provided by either /etc/bashrc or /etc/profile, since these are the default values for all users on that machine. > > Will placing 'export Path=$PATH:/opt/firefox' in the '/home/paul/.bashrc' > file at the bottom of the .bashrc file or top or middle matter? > > No. If there were other export PATH lines in the file, the positions relative to each other would matter, but if there is nothing there already, it does not matter. > Allow me to not get the 'firefox not installed use apt-get to install' > message when I try to load firefox from the bash terminal? > I believe that this is Ubuntu's way of saying that it could not find firefox when it searched PATH -- so yes, this should fix that. > > Does it matter if Path-PATH is lower case or upper case at the beginning > of the string? > > Yes. PATH is a variable name, and variable names are case sensitive. PATH=$PATH:/something/ simply means "set the variable PATH equal to the current value of PATH plus the string ':/something/'" VARIABLE= sets a variable. $VARIABLE returns the contents of that variable. Jeff > Thanks, > > ------------------------------ > Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 17:11:03 -0500 > From: chapinjeff at gmail.com > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] About Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 > > Replies inline. > > > On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 3:58 PM, paul g wrote: > > You have helped tremendously > > paul at paul-desktop:~$ sudo updatedb > paul at paul-desktop:~$ locate -b firefox > /home/paul/.cache/mozilla/firefox > /home/paul/.mozilla/firefox > > /home/paul/.mozilla/firefox/bkbapzwn.default/extensions/firefox at ghostery.com.xpi > /home/paul/.mozilla/firefox/bkbapzwn.default/jetpack/firefox at ghostery.com > /home/paul/Downloads/tor-browser_en-US/.mozilla/firefox > /home/paul/Downloads/tor-browser_en-US/App/Firefox/firefox > /home/paul/Downloads/tor-browser_en-US/App/Firefox/firefox-bin > /opt/firefox > /opt/firefox/firefox > /opt/firefox/firefox-bin > /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-greasemonkey.desktop > /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-launchpad-plugin.desktop > /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-ubuntu-it-menu.desktop > /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-webdeveloper.desktop > /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox.desktop > /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-greasemonkey.xpm > /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-installer.png > /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-launchpad-plugin.xpm > /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-themes-ubuntu.xpm > /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-ubuntu-it-menu.png > /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-webdeveloper.xpm > /usr/share/icons/firefox.jpg > /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/common/prepare-firefox-startpage-translations > /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/libs/img/firefox-3.5.png > paul at paul-desktop:~$ > > paul at paul-desktop:~$ echo $PATH > /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games > > Obviously /usr/opt is not shown in the above output. > > paul at paul-desktop:~$ sudo updatedb > paul at paul-desktop:~$ locate -b bash > /bin/bash > /bin/rbash > /etc/bash.bashrc > /etc/bash_completion > /etc/bash_completion.d > /etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/bash > /etc/bash_completion.d/bash-builtins > /etc/bash_completion.d/gvfs-bash-completion.sh > /etc/bash_completion.d/pk-completion.bash > /etc/skel/.bash_logout > /etc/skel/.bashrc > /home/paul/.bash_history > /home/paul/.bash_logout > /home/paul/.bashrc > > to add the entire following line----> export Path=$PATH:/opt/firefox > > Do I include the word 'export'? > > > Yes. PATH is simply a variable used to hold the list of directories. You > *can* do just 'PATH=$PATH:/usr/opt', but including the export is a better, > more recommended way to do it. This will immediately change the value for > the currently logged in shell session *only* > > > For a deep system wide approach would '/home/paul/.bashrc' be the correct > file to edit in this case that sticks for all sessions? > > > Editing '/home/paul/.bashrc' would be *account* wide -- all *new* shell > sessions you open will have the updated value -- but not the existing ones. > This should also include the shell used in Alt-F2, but I don't use that > feature, so I am not sure. > > To go 'system wide' you would usually edit /etc/bashrc or add a new script > to /etc/profile.d/ with the changes you want. These correspond to .bashrc > and .bash_profile -- the .bashrc in your home directory will *include* > /etc/bashrc, so these changes will appear for all users. Various > distrobutions handle these two files differently. I am used to Red Hat > based systems, and I have always been told use the bashrc files for > functions and aliases, and .bash_profile for environmental variables -- but > I tend to put everything in .bashrc anyway. > > These two files behave slightly differently, and rather than explain it > myself, I am going to refer you to a resource I found via my good friend > Google: > http://www.joshstaiger.org/archives/2005/07/bash_profile_vs.html > > Jeff > > > > I am not seeing a '.bash_profile' file after using 'locate -b bash' I read > you said I could edit either of the 2 files. Maybe the .bash_profile file > is on different distro's I do not know yet. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 12:54:39 -0500 > > From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] About Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 > > > > > On Tue, 25 Mar 2014, Jeff Chapin wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 5:45 PM, paul g wrote: > > > > > >> why when I do a 'locate firefox' in terminal many entries show up? A > > >> few more than listed below but this is the just of it. > > > > > > The 'locate' command uses a pre-created database of file names. If you > > > have not re-run 'updatedb' after creating a file, 'locate' will not > know > > > about it. Locate will return any file that matches the pattern you > gave > > > it. > > > > Also, with "locate", the default is to match any pattern in the entire > > path to a file or directory. Example: > > > > locate bin | less > > > > The name of the file or directory itself, excluding parent directories > in > > its path, is called its basename. There is an option in "locate" to > > search only the basename. From "man locate": > > > > -b, --basename > > Match only the base name against the specified patterns. This > > is the opposite of --wholename. > > > > -w, --wholename > > Match only the whole path name against the specified patterns. > > This is the default behavior. The opposite can be specified > > using --basename. > > > > I have a lot of small files on my system, but I still see a very > dramatic > > drop in the number of matches when I use the -b option: > > > > $ locate bin | wc -l > > 28241 > > > > $ locate -b bin | wc -l > > 4826 > > > > > > It's not quite relevant to the question about "locate", but I'll mention > > that there is a program called "basename" (and another called "dirname"): > > > > > > Usage: basename NAME [SUFFIX] > > or: basename OPTION > > Print NAME with any leading directory components removed. > > If specified, also remove a trailing SUFFIX. > > > > --help display this help and exit > > --version output version information and exit > > > > Examples: > > basename /usr/bin/sort Output "sort". > > basename include/stdio.h .h Output "stdio". > > > > > > > > Usage: dirname NAME > > or: dirname OPTION > > Print NAME with its trailing /component removed; if NAME contains no /'s, > > output `.' (meaning the current directory). > > > > --help display this help and exit > > --version output version information and exit > > > > Examples: > > dirname /usr/bin/sort Output "/usr/bin". > > dirname stdio.h Output ".". > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Tue Mar 25 19:51:51 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 19:51:51 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] About Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , Message-ID: Thank you again for so much help. So the line added to /etc/bash.bashrc should be deep system wide approach once added (I just noticed that there is no) ---> .bashrc file in /home/paul Instead the file is located in /etc/bash.bashrc <--------Ubuntu? correct? (fresh locate just performed) no--------> export Path=$PATH:/opt/firefox <-------lowercase letters in path is not going to work. yes-------> export PATH=$PATH:/opt/firefox correct? Thanks, Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 19:07:28 -0500 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] About Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 Replies inline On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 6:58 PM, paul g wrote: Thank you Jeff and Mike To ask another question if I may? Does it matter if no existing PATH entry is seen in /home/paul/.bashrc at this time? No, it does not matter. The example I gave you appends to the existing values, so it is safe to use in this case. Where do 'echo $PATH' varibles come from are they built into bash upon installation of the OS? --------> /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games <-------- These are likely provided by either /etc/bashrc or /etc/profile, since these are the default values for all users on that machine. Will placing 'export Path=$PATH:/opt/firefox' in the '/home/paul/.bashrc' file at the bottom of the .bashrc file or top or middle matter? No. If there were other export PATH lines in the file, the positions relative to each other would matter, but if there is nothing there already, it does not matter. Allow me to not get the 'firefox not installed use apt-get to install' message when I try to load firefox from the bash terminal? I believe that this is Ubuntu's way of saying that it could not find firefox when it searched PATH -- so yes, this should fix that. Does it matter if Path-PATH is lower case or upper case at the beginning of the string? Yes. PATH is a variable name, and variable names are case sensitive. PATH=$PATH:/something/ simply means "set the variable PATH equal to the current value of PATH plus the string ':/something/'" VARIABLE= sets a variable. $VARIABLE returns the contents of that variable. Jeff Thanks, Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 17:11:03 -0500 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] About Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 Replies inline. On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 3:58 PM, paul g wrote: You have helped tremendously paul at paul-desktop:~$ sudo updatedb paul at paul-desktop:~$ locate -b firefox /home/paul/.cache/mozilla/firefox /home/paul/.mozilla/firefox /home/paul/.mozilla/firefox/bkbapzwn.default/extensions/firefox at ghostery.com.xpi /home/paul/.mozilla/firefox/bkbapzwn.default/jetpack/firefox at ghostery.com /home/paul/Downloads/tor-browser_en-US/.mozilla/firefox /home/paul/Downloads/tor-browser_en-US/App/Firefox/firefox /home/paul/Downloads/tor-browser_en-US/App/Firefox/firefox-bin /opt/firefox /opt/firefox/firefox /opt/firefox/firefox-bin /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-greasemonkey.desktop /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-launchpad-plugin.desktop /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-ubuntu-it-menu.desktop /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-webdeveloper.desktop /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox.desktop /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-greasemonkey.xpm /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-installer.png /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-launchpad-plugin.xpm /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-themes-ubuntu.xpm /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-ubuntu-it-menu.png /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-webdeveloper.xpm /usr/share/icons/firefox.jpg /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/common/prepare-firefox-startpage-translations /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/libs/img/firefox-3.5.png paul at paul-desktop:~$ paul at paul-desktop:~$ echo $PATH /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games Obviously /usr/opt is not shown in the above output. paul at paul-desktop:~$ sudo updatedb paul at paul-desktop:~$ locate -b bash /bin/bash /bin/rbash /etc/bash.bashrc /etc/bash_completion /etc/bash_completion.d /etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/bash /etc/bash_completion.d/bash-builtins /etc/bash_completion.d/gvfs-bash-completion.sh /etc/bash_completion.d/pk-completion.bash /etc/skel/.bash_logout /etc/skel/.bashrc /home/paul/.bash_history /home/paul/.bash_logout /home/paul/.bashrc to add the entire following line----> export Path=$PATH:/opt/firefox Do I include the word 'export'? Yes. PATH is simply a variable used to hold the list of directories. You *can* do just 'PATH=$PATH:/usr/opt', but including the export is a better, more recommended way to do it. This will immediately change the value for the currently logged in shell session *only* For a deep system wide approach would '/home/paul/.bashrc' be the correct file to edit in this case that sticks for all sessions? Editing '/home/paul/.bashrc' would be *account* wide -- all *new* shell sessions you open will have the updated value -- but not the existing ones. This should also include the shell used in Alt-F2, but I don't use that feature, so I am not sure. To go 'system wide' you would usually edit /etc/bashrc or add a new script to /etc/profile.d/ with the changes you want. These correspond to .bashrc and .bash_profile -- the .bashrc in your home directory will *include* /etc/bashrc, so these changes will appear for all users. Various distrobutions handle these two files differently. I am used to Red Hat based systems, and I have always been told use the bashrc files for functions and aliases, and .bash_profile for environmental variables -- but I tend to put everything in .bashrc anyway. These two files behave slightly differently, and rather than explain it myself, I am going to refer you to a resource I found via my good friend Google: http://www.joshstaiger.org/archives/2005/07/bash_profile_vs.html Jeff I am not seeing a '.bash_profile' file after using 'locate -b bash' I read you said I could edit either of the 2 files. Maybe the .bash_profile file is on different distro's I do not know yet. Thanks > Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 12:54:39 -0500 > From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] About Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 > > On Tue, 25 Mar 2014, Jeff Chapin wrote: > > > On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 5:45 PM, paul g wrote: > > > >> why when I do a 'locate firefox' in terminal many entries show up? A > >> few more than listed below but this is the just of it. > > > > The 'locate' command uses a pre-created database of file names. If you > > have not re-run 'updatedb' after creating a file, 'locate' will not know > > about it. Locate will return any file that matches the pattern you gave > > it. > > Also, with "locate", the default is to match any pattern in the entire > path to a file or directory. Example: > > locate bin | less > > The name of the file or directory itself, excluding parent directories in > its path, is called its basename. There is an option in "locate" to > search only the basename. From "man locate": > > -b, --basename > Match only the base name against the specified patterns. This > is the opposite of --wholename. > > -w, --wholename > Match only the whole path name against the specified patterns. > This is the default behavior. The opposite can be specified > using --basename. > > I have a lot of small files on my system, but I still see a very dramatic > drop in the number of matches when I use the -b option: > > $ locate bin | wc -l > 28241 > > $ locate -b bin | wc -l > 4826 > > > It's not quite relevant to the question about "locate", but I'll mention > that there is a program called "basename" (and another called "dirname"): > > > Usage: basename NAME [SUFFIX] > or: basename OPTION > Print NAME with any leading directory components removed. > If specified, also remove a trailing SUFFIX. > > --help display this help and exit > --version output version information and exit > > Examples: > basename /usr/bin/sort Output "sort". > basename include/stdio.h .h Output "stdio". > > > > Usage: dirname NAME > or: dirname OPTION > Print NAME with its trailing /component removed; if NAME contains no /'s, > output `.' (meaning the current directory). > > --help display this help and exit > --version output version information and exit > > Examples: > dirname /usr/bin/sort Output "/usr/bin". > dirname stdio.h Output ".". > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Mar 26 11:25:00 2014 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 11:25:00 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] ~/.bash_profile not sourced [SOLVED] Message-ID: This was bugging me for years. I couldn't understand why I had to source ~/.bash_profile to get my path updated on some of my machines and not others. I thought I was doing everything right. Now I realize the problem was only with gnome-terminal -- there is a check-box that I wasn't setting correctly: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-general-1/do-i-put-path-in-bash_profile-or-bashrc-or-both-540288/ "You can [fix this] by opening a gnome-terminal window and going to Edit / Profiles - select the Default profile and click the Edit button. On the Title and Command tab, click the check box for Run command as a login shell. Your .bash_profile file should be sourced the next time you open a gnome-terminal." So ... you want "export PATH=..." to be in ~/.bash_profile, not in ~/.bash_rc, and you want gnome-terminal, if you're using it, to be starting as a login shell. Mike From pj.world at hotmail.com Wed Mar 26 13:37:50 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 13:37:50 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 [Solved] In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , , , , , , , , Message-ID: What ended up more or less solving this dilema for me was the following. /etc/profile --------> systemwide initialization profile file. Added the following line. export PATH=$PATH:/opt/firefox gnome-terminal window and going to Edit / Profiles - select the Default profile and click the Edit button. On the Title and Command tab, click the check box for Run command as a login shell. Your .bash_profile file should be sourced the next time you open a gnome-terminal. Was not necessary this time. Now Alt+F2 -------->firefox works! entering 'firefox' in the terminal also works. I think it's kindof neat to be running Ubuntu 10.04 with the latest version of firefox installed. The 'updatedb' command is obviously very important. Thanks for all your help. From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 19:51:51 -0500 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] About Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 Thank you again for so much help. So the line added to /etc/bash.bashrc should be deep system wide approach once added (I just noticed that there is no) ---> .bashrc file in /home/paul Instead the file is located in /etc/bash.bashrc <--------Ubuntu? correct? (fresh locate just performed) no--------> export Path=$PATH:/opt/firefox <-------lowercase letters in path is not going to work. yes-------> export PATH=$PATH:/opt/firefox correct? Thanks, Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 19:07:28 -0500 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] About Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 Replies inline On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 6:58 PM, paul g wrote: Thank you Jeff and Mike To ask another question if I may? Does it matter if no existing PATH entry is seen in /home/paul/.bashrc at this time? No, it does not matter. The example I gave you appends to the existing values, so it is safe to use in this case. Where do 'echo $PATH' varibles come from are they built into bash upon installation of the OS? --------> /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games <-------- These are likely provided by either /etc/bashrc or /etc/profile, since these are the default values for all users on that machine. Will placing 'export Path=$PATH:/opt/firefox' in the '/home/paul/.bashrc' file at the bottom of the .bashrc file or top or middle matter? No. If there were other export PATH lines in the file, the positions relative to each other would matter, but if there is nothing there already, it does not matter. Allow me to not get the 'firefox not installed use apt-get to install' message when I try to load firefox from the bash terminal? I believe that this is Ubuntu's way of saying that it could not find firefox when it searched PATH -- so yes, this should fix that. Does it matter if Path-PATH is lower case or upper case at the beginning of the string? Yes. PATH is a variable name, and variable names are case sensitive. PATH=$PATH:/something/ simply means "set the variable PATH equal to the current value of PATH plus the string ':/something/'" VARIABLE= sets a variable. $VARIABLE returns the contents of that variable. Jeff Thanks, Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 17:11:03 -0500 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] About Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 Replies inline. On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 3:58 PM, paul g wrote: You have helped tremendously paul at paul-desktop:~$ sudo updatedb paul at paul-desktop:~$ locate -b firefox /home/paul/.cache/mozilla/firefox /home/paul/.mozilla/firefox /home/paul/.mozilla/firefox/bkbapzwn.default/extensions/firefox at ghostery.com.xpi /home/paul/.mozilla/firefox/bkbapzwn.default/jetpack/firefox at ghostery.com /home/paul/Downloads/tor-browser_en-US/.mozilla/firefox /home/paul/Downloads/tor-browser_en-US/App/Firefox/firefox /home/paul/Downloads/tor-browser_en-US/App/Firefox/firefox-bin /opt/firefox /opt/firefox/firefox /opt/firefox/firefox-bin /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-greasemonkey.desktop /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-launchpad-plugin.desktop /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-ubuntu-it-menu.desktop /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-webdeveloper.desktop /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox.desktop /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-greasemonkey.xpm /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-installer.png /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-launchpad-plugin.xpm /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-themes-ubuntu.xpm /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-ubuntu-it-menu.png /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-webdeveloper.xpm /usr/share/icons/firefox.jpg /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/common/prepare-firefox-startpage-translations /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/libs/img/firefox-3.5.png paul at paul-desktop:~$ paul at paul-desktop:~$ echo $PATH /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games Obviously /usr/opt is not shown in the above output. paul at paul-desktop:~$ sudo updatedb paul at paul-desktop:~$ locate -b bash /bin/bash /bin/rbash /etc/bash.bashrc /etc/bash_completion /etc/bash_completion.d /etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/bash /etc/bash_completion.d/bash-builtins /etc/bash_completion.d/gvfs-bash-completion.sh /etc/bash_completion.d/pk-completion.bash /etc/skel/.bash_logout /etc/skel/.bashrc /home/paul/.bash_history /home/paul/.bash_logout /home/paul/.bashrc to add the entire following line----> export Path=$PATH:/opt/firefox Do I include the word 'export'? Yes. PATH is simply a variable used to hold the list of directories. You *can* do just 'PATH=$PATH:/usr/opt', but including the export is a better, more recommended way to do it. This will immediately change the value for the currently logged in shell session *only* For a deep system wide approach would '/home/paul/.bashrc' be the correct file to edit in this case that sticks for all sessions? Editing '/home/paul/.bashrc' would be *account* wide -- all *new* shell sessions you open will have the updated value -- but not the existing ones. This should also include the shell used in Alt-F2, but I don't use that feature, so I am not sure. To go 'system wide' you would usually edit /etc/bashrc or add a new script to /etc/profile.d/ with the changes you want. These correspond to .bashrc and .bash_profile -- the .bashrc in your home directory will *include* /etc/bashrc, so these changes will appear for all users. Various distrobutions handle these two files differently. I am used to Red Hat based systems, and I have always been told use the bashrc files for functions and aliases, and .bash_profile for environmental variables -- but I tend to put everything in .bashrc anyway. These two files behave slightly differently, and rather than explain it myself, I am going to refer you to a resource I found via my good friend Google: http://www.joshstaiger.org/archives/2005/07/bash_profile_vs.html Jeff I am not seeing a '.bash_profile' file after using 'locate -b bash' I read you said I could edit either of the 2 files. Maybe the .bash_profile file is on different distro's I do not know yet. Thanks > Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 12:54:39 -0500 > From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] About Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 > > On Tue, 25 Mar 2014, Jeff Chapin wrote: > > > On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 5:45 PM, paul g wrote: > > > >> why when I do a 'locate firefox' in terminal many entries show up? A > >> few more than listed below but this is the just of it. > > > > The 'locate' command uses a pre-created database of file names. If you > > have not re-run 'updatedb' after creating a file, 'locate' will not know > > about it. Locate will return any file that matches the pattern you gave > > it. > > Also, with "locate", the default is to match any pattern in the entire > path to a file or directory. Example: > > locate bin | less > > The name of the file or directory itself, excluding parent directories in > its path, is called its basename. There is an option in "locate" to > search only the basename. From "man locate": > > -b, --basename > Match only the base name against the specified patterns. This > is the opposite of --wholename. > > -w, --wholename > Match only the whole path name against the specified patterns. > This is the default behavior. The opposite can be specified > using --basename. > > I have a lot of small files on my system, but I still see a very dramatic > drop in the number of matches when I use the -b option: > > $ locate bin | wc -l > 28241 > > $ locate -b bin | wc -l > 4826 > > > It's not quite relevant to the question about "locate", but I'll mention > that there is a program called "basename" (and another called "dirname"): > > > Usage: basename NAME [SUFFIX] > or: basename OPTION > Print NAME with any leading directory components removed. > If specified, also remove a trailing SUFFIX. > > --help display this help and exit > --version output version information and exit > > Examples: > basename /usr/bin/sort Output "sort". > basename include/stdio.h .h Output "stdio". > > > > Usage: dirname NAME > or: dirname OPTION > Print NAME with its trailing /component removed; if NAME contains no /'s, > output `.' (meaning the current directory). > > --help display this help and exit > --version output version information and exit > > Examples: > dirname /usr/bin/sort Output "/usr/bin". > dirname stdio.h Output ".". > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryan.c.dunlop at gmail.com Wed Mar 26 13:45:42 2014 From: ryan.c.dunlop at gmail.com (Ryan Dunlop) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 13:45:42 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 [Solved] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: May I ask why you are running a version of Ubuntu that has been end-of-life for 11 months? You aren't getting any security/bug patches and should upgrade to 12.04 if you want to stay patched and on the newest LTS release. Only the server version of 10.04 is still supported. On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 1:37 PM, paul g wrote: > What ended up more or less solving this dilema for me was the following. > > /etc/profile --------> systemwide initialization profile file. > > Added the following line. > > export PATH=$PATH:/opt/firefox > > gnome-terminal window and going to Edit / Profiles - select the Default > profile and click the Edit button. On the Title and Command tab, click the > check box for Run command as a login shell. Your .bash_profile file should > be sourced the next time you open a gnome-terminal. > > Was not necessary this time. > > Now Alt+F2 -------->firefox works! > entering 'firefox' in the terminal also works. > > I think it's kindof neat to be running Ubuntu 10.04 with the latest version > of firefox installed. > > The 'updatedb' command is obviously very important. > > Thanks for all your help. > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 19:51:51 -0500 > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] About Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 > > Thank you again for so much help. > > So the line added to /etc/bash.bashrc should be deep system wide approach > once added (I just noticed that there is no) ---> .bashrc file in /home/paul > > Instead the file is located in /etc/bash.bashrc <--------Ubuntu? correct? > (fresh locate just performed) > > no--------> export Path=$PATH:/opt/firefox <-------lowercase letters in path > is not going to work. > yes-------> export PATH=$PATH:/opt/firefox > > correct? > > Thanks, > > > > > > ________________________________ > Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 19:07:28 -0500 > From: chapinjeff at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] About Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 > > Replies inline > > > On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 6:58 PM, paul g wrote: > > Thank you Jeff and Mike > > To ask another question if I may? > > Does it matter if no existing PATH entry is seen in /home/paul/.bashrc at > this time? > > > No, it does not matter. The example I gave you appends to the existing > values, so it is safe to use in this case. > > > > > Where do 'echo $PATH' varibles come from are they built into bash upon > installation of the OS? > --------> > /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games > <-------- > > > > These are likely provided by either /etc/bashrc or /etc/profile, since these > are the default values for all users on that machine. > > > > Will placing 'export Path=$PATH:/opt/firefox' in the '/home/paul/.bashrc' > file at the bottom of the .bashrc file or top or middle matter? > > > No. If there were other export PATH lines in the file, the positions > relative to each other would matter, but if there is nothing there already, > it does not matter. > > > > Allow me to not get the 'firefox not installed use apt-get to install' > message when I try to load firefox from the bash terminal? > > > I believe that this is Ubuntu's way of saying that it could not find firefox > when it searched PATH -- so yes, this should fix that. > > > > Does it matter if Path-PATH is lower case or upper case at the beginning of > the string? > > > > Yes. PATH is a variable name, and variable names are case sensitive. > PATH=$PATH:/something/ simply means "set the variable PATH equal to the > current value of PATH plus the string ':/something/'" > > VARIABLE= sets a variable. > $VARIABLE returns the contents of that variable. > > Jeff > > > Thanks, > > ________________________________ > Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 17:11:03 -0500 > From: chapinjeff at gmail.com > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] About Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 > > Replies inline. > > > On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 3:58 PM, paul g wrote: > > You have helped tremendously > > paul at paul-desktop:~$ sudo updatedb > paul at paul-desktop:~$ locate -b firefox > /home/paul/.cache/mozilla/firefox > /home/paul/.mozilla/firefox > /home/paul/.mozilla/firefox/bkbapzwn.default/extensions/firefox at ghostery.com.xpi > /home/paul/.mozilla/firefox/bkbapzwn.default/jetpack/firefox at ghostery.com > /home/paul/Downloads/tor-browser_en-US/.mozilla/firefox > /home/paul/Downloads/tor-browser_en-US/App/Firefox/firefox > /home/paul/Downloads/tor-browser_en-US/App/Firefox/firefox-bin > /opt/firefox > /opt/firefox/firefox > /opt/firefox/firefox-bin > /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-greasemonkey.desktop > /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-launchpad-plugin.desktop > /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-ubuntu-it-menu.desktop > /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-webdeveloper.desktop > /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox.desktop > /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-greasemonkey.xpm > /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-installer.png > /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-launchpad-plugin.xpm > /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-themes-ubuntu.xpm > /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-ubuntu-it-menu.png > /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-webdeveloper.xpm > /usr/share/icons/firefox.jpg > /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/common/prepare-firefox-startpage-translations > /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/libs/img/firefox-3.5.png > paul at paul-desktop:~$ > > paul at paul-desktop:~$ echo $PATH > /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games > > Obviously /usr/opt is not shown in the above output. > > paul at paul-desktop:~$ sudo updatedb > paul at paul-desktop:~$ locate -b bash > /bin/bash > /bin/rbash > /etc/bash.bashrc > /etc/bash_completion > /etc/bash_completion.d > /etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/bash > /etc/bash_completion.d/bash-builtins > /etc/bash_completion.d/gvfs-bash-completion.sh > /etc/bash_completion.d/pk-completion.bash > /etc/skel/.bash_logout > /etc/skel/.bashrc > /home/paul/.bash_history > /home/paul/.bash_logout > /home/paul/.bashrc > > to add the entire following line----> export Path=$PATH:/opt/firefox > > Do I include the word 'export'? > > > Yes. PATH is simply a variable used to hold the list of directories. You > *can* do just 'PATH=$PATH:/usr/opt', but including the export is a better, > more recommended way to do it. This will immediately change the value for > the currently logged in shell session *only* > > > For a deep system wide approach would '/home/paul/.bashrc' be the correct > file to edit in this case that sticks for all sessions? > > > Editing '/home/paul/.bashrc' would be *account* wide -- all *new* shell > sessions you open will have the updated value -- but not the existing ones. > This should also include the shell used in Alt-F2, but I don't use that > feature, so I am not sure. > > To go 'system wide' you would usually edit /etc/bashrc or add a new script > to /etc/profile.d/ with the changes you want. These correspond to .bashrc > and .bash_profile -- the .bashrc in your home directory will *include* > /etc/bashrc, so these changes will appear for all users. Various > distrobutions handle these two files differently. I am used to Red Hat based > systems, and I have always been told use the bashrc files for functions and > aliases, and .bash_profile for environmental variables -- but I tend to put > everything in .bashrc anyway. > > These two files behave slightly differently, and rather than explain it > myself, I am going to refer you to a resource I found via my good friend > Google: > http://www.joshstaiger.org/archives/2005/07/bash_profile_vs.html > > Jeff > > > > I am not seeing a '.bash_profile' file after using 'locate -b bash' I read > you said I could edit either of the 2 files. Maybe the .bash_profile file is > on different distro's I do not know yet. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > >> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 12:54:39 -0500 >> From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] About Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 > >> >> On Tue, 25 Mar 2014, Jeff Chapin wrote: >> >> > On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 5:45 PM, paul g wrote: >> > >> >> why when I do a 'locate firefox' in terminal many entries show up? A >> >> few more than listed below but this is the just of it. >> > >> > The 'locate' command uses a pre-created database of file names. If you >> > have not re-run 'updatedb' after creating a file, 'locate' will not know >> > about it. Locate will return any file that matches the pattern you gave >> > it. >> >> Also, with "locate", the default is to match any pattern in the entire >> path to a file or directory. Example: >> >> locate bin | less >> >> The name of the file or directory itself, excluding parent directories in >> its path, is called its basename. There is an option in "locate" to >> search only the basename. From "man locate": >> >> -b, --basename >> Match only the base name against the specified patterns. This >> is the opposite of --wholename. >> >> -w, --wholename >> Match only the whole path name against the specified patterns. >> This is the default behavior. The opposite can be specified >> using --basename. >> >> I have a lot of small files on my system, but I still see a very dramatic >> drop in the number of matches when I use the -b option: >> >> $ locate bin | wc -l >> 28241 >> >> $ locate -b bin | wc -l >> 4826 >> >> >> It's not quite relevant to the question about "locate", but I'll mention >> that there is a program called "basename" (and another called "dirname"): >> >> >> Usage: basename NAME [SUFFIX] >> or: basename OPTION >> Print NAME with any leading directory components removed. >> If specified, also remove a trailing SUFFIX. >> >> --help display this help and exit >> --version output version information and exit >> >> Examples: >> basename /usr/bin/sort Output "sort". >> basename include/stdio.h .h Output "stdio". >> >> >> >> Usage: dirname NAME >> or: dirname OPTION >> Print NAME with its trailing /component removed; if NAME contains no /'s, >> output `.' (meaning the current directory). >> >> --help display this help and exit >> --version output version information and exit >> >> Examples: >> dirname /usr/bin/sort Output "/usr/bin". >> dirname stdio.h Output ".". >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From erikerik at gmail.com Wed Mar 26 13:48:05 2014 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 13:48:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 [Solved] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 1:45 PM, Ryan Dunlop wrote: > You aren't getting any security/bug > patches and should upgrade to 12.04 if you want to stay patched and on > the newest LTS release. > +1 Additionally, 14.04, the next LTS release, will be released next month. At this point, it's probably worth just waiting it out and going directly to 14.04. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Wed Mar 26 13:51:21 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 13:51:21 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 [Solved] In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , , , , Message-ID: Well basically the biggest reason is I have a Lexmark x5070 printer that has the driver for Ubuntu 10.04 and not Ubuntu 12.04. I have been getting the server version updates. You do have a good point though. How nervous should I be about using this 10.04 after another year has passed? > Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 13:45:42 -0500 > From: ryan.c.dunlop at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 [Solved] > > May I ask why you are running a version of Ubuntu that has been > end-of-life for 11 months? You aren't getting any security/bug > patches and should upgrade to 12.04 if you want to stay patched and on > the newest LTS release. Only the server version of 10.04 is still > supported. > > On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 1:37 PM, paul g wrote: > > What ended up more or less solving this dilema for me was the following. > > > > /etc/profile --------> systemwide initialization profile file. > > > > Added the following line. > > > > export PATH=$PATH:/opt/firefox > > > > gnome-terminal window and going to Edit / Profiles - select the Default > > profile and click the Edit button. On the Title and Command tab, click the > > check box for Run command as a login shell. Your .bash_profile file should > > be sourced the next time you open a gnome-terminal. > > > > Was not necessary this time. > > > > Now Alt+F2 -------->firefox works! > > entering 'firefox' in the terminal also works. > > > > I think it's kindof neat to be running Ubuntu 10.04 with the latest version > > of firefox installed. > > > > The 'updatedb' command is obviously very important. > > > > Thanks for all your help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 19:51:51 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] About Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 > > > > Thank you again for so much help. > > > > So the line added to /etc/bash.bashrc should be deep system wide approach > > once added (I just noticed that there is no) ---> .bashrc file in /home/paul > > > > Instead the file is located in /etc/bash.bashrc <--------Ubuntu? correct? > > (fresh locate just performed) > > > > no--------> export Path=$PATH:/opt/firefox <-------lowercase letters in path > > is not going to work. > > yes-------> export PATH=$PATH:/opt/firefox > > > > correct? > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 19:07:28 -0500 > > From: chapinjeff at gmail.com > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] About Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 > > > > Replies inline > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 6:58 PM, paul g wrote: > > > > Thank you Jeff and Mike > > > > To ask another question if I may? > > > > Does it matter if no existing PATH entry is seen in /home/paul/.bashrc at > > this time? > > > > > > No, it does not matter. The example I gave you appends to the existing > > values, so it is safe to use in this case. > > > > > > > > > > Where do 'echo $PATH' varibles come from are they built into bash upon > > installation of the OS? > > --------> > > /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games > > <-------- > > > > > > > > These are likely provided by either /etc/bashrc or /etc/profile, since these > > are the default values for all users on that machine. > > > > > > > > Will placing 'export Path=$PATH:/opt/firefox' in the '/home/paul/.bashrc' > > file at the bottom of the .bashrc file or top or middle matter? > > > > > > No. If there were other export PATH lines in the file, the positions > > relative to each other would matter, but if there is nothing there already, > > it does not matter. > > > > > > > > Allow me to not get the 'firefox not installed use apt-get to install' > > message when I try to load firefox from the bash terminal? > > > > > > I believe that this is Ubuntu's way of saying that it could not find firefox > > when it searched PATH -- so yes, this should fix that. > > > > > > > > Does it matter if Path-PATH is lower case or upper case at the beginning of > > the string? > > > > > > > > Yes. PATH is a variable name, and variable names are case sensitive. > > PATH=$PATH:/something/ simply means "set the variable PATH equal to the > > current value of PATH plus the string ':/something/'" > > > > VARIABLE= sets a variable. > > $VARIABLE returns the contents of that variable. > > > > Jeff > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > ________________________________ > > Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 17:11:03 -0500 > > From: chapinjeff at gmail.com > > > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] About Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 > > > > Replies inline. > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 3:58 PM, paul g wrote: > > > > You have helped tremendously > > > > paul at paul-desktop:~$ sudo updatedb > > paul at paul-desktop:~$ locate -b firefox > > /home/paul/.cache/mozilla/firefox > > /home/paul/.mozilla/firefox > > /home/paul/.mozilla/firefox/bkbapzwn.default/extensions/firefox at ghostery.com.xpi > > /home/paul/.mozilla/firefox/bkbapzwn.default/jetpack/firefox at ghostery.com > > /home/paul/Downloads/tor-browser_en-US/.mozilla/firefox > > /home/paul/Downloads/tor-browser_en-US/App/Firefox/firefox > > /home/paul/Downloads/tor-browser_en-US/App/Firefox/firefox-bin > > /opt/firefox > > /opt/firefox/firefox > > /opt/firefox/firefox-bin > > /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-greasemonkey.desktop > > /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-launchpad-plugin.desktop > > /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-ubuntu-it-menu.desktop > > /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox-webdeveloper.desktop > > /usr/share/app-install/desktop/firefox.desktop > > /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-greasemonkey.xpm > > /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-installer.png > > /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-launchpad-plugin.xpm > > /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-themes-ubuntu.xpm > > /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-ubuntu-it-menu.png > > /usr/share/app-install/icons/firefox-webdeveloper.xpm > > /usr/share/icons/firefox.jpg > > /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/common/prepare-firefox-startpage-translations > > /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/libs/img/firefox-3.5.png > > paul at paul-desktop:~$ > > > > paul at paul-desktop:~$ echo $PATH > > /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games > > > > Obviously /usr/opt is not shown in the above output. > > > > paul at paul-desktop:~$ sudo updatedb > > paul at paul-desktop:~$ locate -b bash > > /bin/bash > > /bin/rbash > > /etc/bash.bashrc > > /etc/bash_completion > > /etc/bash_completion.d > > /etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/bash > > /etc/bash_completion.d/bash-builtins > > /etc/bash_completion.d/gvfs-bash-completion.sh > > /etc/bash_completion.d/pk-completion.bash > > /etc/skel/.bash_logout > > /etc/skel/.bashrc > > /home/paul/.bash_history > > /home/paul/.bash_logout > > /home/paul/.bashrc > > > > to add the entire following line----> export Path=$PATH:/opt/firefox > > > > Do I include the word 'export'? > > > > > > Yes. PATH is simply a variable used to hold the list of directories. You > > *can* do just 'PATH=$PATH:/usr/opt', but including the export is a better, > > more recommended way to do it. This will immediately change the value for > > the currently logged in shell session *only* > > > > > > For a deep system wide approach would '/home/paul/.bashrc' be the correct > > file to edit in this case that sticks for all sessions? > > > > > > Editing '/home/paul/.bashrc' would be *account* wide -- all *new* shell > > sessions you open will have the updated value -- but not the existing ones. > > This should also include the shell used in Alt-F2, but I don't use that > > feature, so I am not sure. > > > > To go 'system wide' you would usually edit /etc/bashrc or add a new script > > to /etc/profile.d/ with the changes you want. These correspond to .bashrc > > and .bash_profile -- the .bashrc in your home directory will *include* > > /etc/bashrc, so these changes will appear for all users. Various > > distrobutions handle these two files differently. I am used to Red Hat based > > systems, and I have always been told use the bashrc files for functions and > > aliases, and .bash_profile for environmental variables -- but I tend to put > > everything in .bashrc anyway. > > > > These two files behave slightly differently, and rather than explain it > > myself, I am going to refer you to a resource I found via my good friend > > Google: > > http://www.joshstaiger.org/archives/2005/07/bash_profile_vs.html > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > I am not seeing a '.bash_profile' file after using 'locate -b bash' I read > > you said I could edit either of the 2 files. Maybe the .bash_profile file is > > on different distro's I do not know yet. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > >> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 12:54:39 -0500 > >> From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com > >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] About Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 > > > >> > >> On Tue, 25 Mar 2014, Jeff Chapin wrote: > >> > >> > On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 5:45 PM, paul g wrote: > >> > > >> >> why when I do a 'locate firefox' in terminal many entries show up? A > >> >> few more than listed below but this is the just of it. > >> > > >> > The 'locate' command uses a pre-created database of file names. If you > >> > have not re-run 'updatedb' after creating a file, 'locate' will not know > >> > about it. Locate will return any file that matches the pattern you gave > >> > it. > >> > >> Also, with "locate", the default is to match any pattern in the entire > >> path to a file or directory. Example: > >> > >> locate bin | less > >> > >> The name of the file or directory itself, excluding parent directories in > >> its path, is called its basename. There is an option in "locate" to > >> search only the basename. From "man locate": > >> > >> -b, --basename > >> Match only the base name against the specified patterns. This > >> is the opposite of --wholename. > >> > >> -w, --wholename > >> Match only the whole path name against the specified patterns. > >> This is the default behavior. The opposite can be specified > >> using --basename. > >> > >> I have a lot of small files on my system, but I still see a very dramatic > >> drop in the number of matches when I use the -b option: > >> > >> $ locate bin | wc -l > >> 28241 > >> > >> $ locate -b bin | wc -l > >> 4826 > >> > >> > >> It's not quite relevant to the question about "locate", but I'll mention > >> that there is a program called "basename" (and another called "dirname"): > >> > >> > >> Usage: basename NAME [SUFFIX] > >> or: basename OPTION > >> Print NAME with any leading directory components removed. > >> If specified, also remove a trailing SUFFIX. > >> > >> --help display this help and exit > >> --version output version information and exit > >> > >> Examples: > >> basename /usr/bin/sort Output "sort". > >> basename include/stdio.h .h Output "stdio". > >> > >> > >> > >> Usage: dirname NAME > >> or: dirname OPTION > >> Print NAME with its trailing /component removed; if NAME contains no /'s, > >> output `.' (meaning the current directory). > >> > >> --help display this help and exit > >> --version output version information and exit > >> > >> Examples: > >> dirname /usr/bin/sort Output "/usr/bin". > >> dirname stdio.h Output ".". > >> _______________________________________________ > >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Jeff Chapin > > President, CedarLug, retired > > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > > President, UNI Scuba Club > > Senator, NISG, retired > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Jeff Chapin > > President, CedarLug, retired > > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > > President, UNI Scuba Club > > Senator, NISG, retired > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Mar 26 13:52:31 2014 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 13:52:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 [Solved] In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , , , , , , , , Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Mar 2014, paul g wrote: > What ended up more or less solving this dilema for me was the following. > > /etc/profile --------> > systemwide initialization profile file. > > Added the following line. > > export PATH=$PATH:/opt/firefox > > gnome-terminal window and going to Edit / Profiles - select the Default > profile and click the Edit button. On the Title and Command tab, click > the check box for Run command as a login shell. Your .bash_profile file > should be sourced the next time you open a gnome-terminal. > > Was not necessary this time. I wonder why. Where does PATH get set? I don't see PATH in /etc/bash.bashrc or in /etc/profile, but it is coming from somewhere. Anyone know where? Mike From erikerik at gmail.com Wed Mar 26 13:54:38 2014 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 13:54:38 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 [Solved] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 1:51 PM, paul g wrote: > Well basically the biggest reason is I have a Lexmark x5070 printer that > has the driver for Ubuntu 10.04 and not Ubuntu 12.04. You can likely copy the driver files from your 10.04 box and install them on the 12.04 (or preferrably 14.04) server. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Wed Mar 26 14:03:56 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 14:03:56 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 [Solved] In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , , , , , , Message-ID: If I knew how to more easily copy the printer drivers off the 10.04 box I would do it most definitely. I wonder why. Where does PATH get set? I don't see PATH in /etc/bash.bashrc or in /etc/profile, but it is coming from somewhere. Anyone know where? Good question. Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 13:54:38 -0500 From: erikerik at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 [Solved] On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 1:51 PM, paul g wrote: Well basically the biggest reason is I have a Lexmark x5070 printer that has the driver for Ubuntu 10.04 and not Ubuntu 12.04. You can likely copy the driver files from your 10.04 box and install them on the 12.04 (or preferrably 14.04) server. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tmarble at info9.net Wed Mar 26 13:39:41 2014 From: tmarble at info9.net (Tom Marble) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 13:39:41 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Extension: Gnome Outreach Program for Women Message-ID: <53331EED.6020602@info9.net> All: I want to make sure you are aware of an extension to the application deadline for the Gnome Outreach Program for Women: https://wiki.gnome.org/OutreachProgramForWomen/2014/MayAugust#Organizations_with_an_Extended_Application_Deadline For those that don't know OPW is like GSOC, but specifically targeting women (and being a student is not required). In addition OPW runs *twice* a year, not just during the summer. Please forward to any women who might be interested! Thanks! --Tom p.s. Alas Debian missed this round of OPW, but we will be back for the next round which starts on 10/22! p.p.s. Along with the local Clojure MN User's Group I am organizing one of the first ClojureBridge workshops for Women in May 16th-17th) at DevJam in South Minneapolis. http://www.clojurebridge.org/ https://github.com/clojurebridge-minneapolis/organizing Let me know if you'd like more information (or would like to help!) From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Mar 26 23:15:39 2014 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 23:15:39 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Firefox 28 on Ubuntu 10.04 [Solved] In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , , , , , , , , Message-ID: <7178.1395893739@ydalir.wookimus> Mike Miller wrote: > I wonder why. Where does PATH get set? I don't see PATH in > /etc/bash.bashrc or in /etc/profile, but it is coming from > somewhere. Anyone know where? Default PATH's are generally set in your /etc/login.defs as ENV_PATH for users and ENV_SUPATH for super-users. This will set the default paths regardless of the shell you're using or how that shell was invoked. man -s5 login.defs Chad From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Mar 26 23:08:56 2014 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 23:08:56 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] ~/.bash_profile not sourced [SOLVED] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7129.1395893336@ydalir.wookimus> Mike Miller wrote: > This was bugging me for years. I couldn't understand why I had to > source ~/.bash_profile to get my path updated on some of my machines > and not others. The following blog post breaks down the .bash_profile v.s. .bashrc desicion quite well: http://www.joshstaiger.org/archives/2005/07/bash_profile_vs.html tl;dr: Use ~/.bash_profile to execute code only once per login and use ~/.bashrc to execute for every new /bin/bash instance that starts. Terminal emulators do not start as login shells, which IMHO is the Right Thing To Do(tm). A login shell was traditionally reserved for telnet or terminal sessions, you know... the old amber or green CRTs with funky UNIX keyboards, or now with ssh. When you're using an X11 window manager, you've used a different method to log in, and the login shell isn't generally needed. In practice, there is very little you'll want to do at login that you wouldn't want to do in every instance of /bin/bash. For that, people use the pattern of sourcing their ~/.bashrc inside their ~/.bash_profile. An example: # ~/.bash_profile # # Execute commands only upon login... # ########################################################################### # Pull in my ~/.bashrc if I have one for things that must happen for # every /bin/bash instance. (PATH is set in there...) ########################################################################### if [[ -f ~/.bashrc ]] ; then . ~/.bashrc fi ########################################################################### # Make sure I'm in an interactive login before printing to stdout/stderr. # Otherwise, I'll mess up my ssh sessions. ########################################################################### if [[ $- =~ 'i' ]] ; then # Display uptime uptime # sysnews package - display new system news since last login news # Do I have any screen sessions open? screen -ls fi ########################################################################### # Run these commands even if I'm not logging in interactively ########################################################################### # Clean up my old temp files if enabled if [[ -f ~/.bash.d/purge_tempfiles ]] ; then find $TMPDIR -owner $USERNAME -mtime +1 -delete & fi # EOF And the bashrc file... # ~/.bashrc # # Execute these commands in all BASH shells, incuding all instances of # shell created for screen/tmux sessions, non-interactive logins over ssh, # etc. ########################################################################### # Set up my path... PATH=".:${HOME}/bin:${HOME}/bin/$(uname -m):/usr/local/sbin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:$PATH" export PATH # Loosen up security on my files in general - let my co-workers peek # behind the curtain umask 022 # I may not want a DISPLAY from this host if [[ -f ~/.nodisplay-$(hostname -s) ]] ; then unset DISPLAY fi ########################################################################### # Make sure I'm in an interactive login before printing to stdout/stderr. # Otherwise, I'll mess up my ssh sessions. ########################################################################### if [[ $- =~ 'i' ]] ; then # create a directory for other cool interactive customizations [[ ! -d ~/.bash.d ]] && mkdir ~/.bash.d for rc in ~/.bash.d/*.bash ; do . $rc done biff y mesg y else # Non-Interactive shell commands biff n mesg n fi # EOF I sometimes like to test whether or not an application exists before I decide to customize my shell for it. For example, the nmh package for email management may or may not be installed. Before I go about setting up bash completion or aliases, I check for a well-known nmh script: # ~/.bash.d/mh.bash # if (type -p sortm >/dev/null) ; then # MH is installed! Get busy! alias sortms="sortm -textfield subject -limit 0" alias catchup="mark -seq unseen -del all" alias clrf="$mhdir/folder -list" alias lsf="$mhdir/folder -list" alias puf="$mhdir/folder -push" alias pof="$mhdir/folder -pop" alias com="$mhdir/anno -component X-comment -text" alias lcom="$mhdir/scan;$mhdir/anno -list -number -component X-comment" # Update the folder list and template files if the date-stamp file # is empty. (This is done in a cron job each night.) if [ ! -s ${HOME}/Mail/date-stamp ] ; then (cd ${HOME}/Mail; make) >/dev/null 2>/dev/null fi do_incprocmailfail() { inc=/usr/bin/mh/inc for i in ~/.procmailrc $inc ; do test -f $i || return 1 done eval $(grep -E "^FAILDROP=" ~/.procmailrc) test [ ! -f ${FAILDROP} ] && return 1 echo -n "Incorporating failed procmail messages..." exec $inc -zero -file ${FAILDROP} +inbox echo done. } fi # EOF Enjoy! Chad -- Chad Walstrom http://runswithd6s.blogspot.com/ From pj.world at hotmail.com Thu Mar 27 07:17:52 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 07:17:52 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Exporting currently installed printer driver? Message-ID: Would this perhaps be somewhat of a starting point to obtain a currently installed printer-driver on an Ubuntu 10.04 computer? The problem I am having is that the 'Lexmark X5070' printer I have has no driver available on the Lexmark website for Ubuntu 12.04. Someone suggested I may be able to retain the current print driver and install it on Ubuntu 12.04. I know I can read more but suggestions are welcome. Moving printer definitions from one machine to another Let us say that you have a print server with 30 defined printers. And you have to move all those printers to another machine, because you want to retire that server. Sounds difficult? Yes. But it isn't. At least if you have a CentOS 4 or CentOS 3 machine, the printconf command vanished from CentOS 5. Note: For moving printer configs with CentOS 5 please see this page until it gets incorporated into the wiki. Here's how to do it Make yourself at home as root on the old server. Issue the following command: printconf-tui --Xexport > printers.xml Now copy the printers.xml to the new machine. Log on to this machine as root, also. Do the following: printconf-tui --Ximport < printers.xml Now the last thing you have to do is restart cups on the new machine - and you're ready: service cups restart Thanks for your help -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at lctn.org Thu Mar 27 08:20:24 2014 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 08:20:24 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] certs question Message-ID: <53342598.2000802@lctn.org> I created half a dozen client crt, csr & key files on a laptop with openvpn. I need to create more client files, but the original laptop has been upgraded. I have the ca.crt, ca.key, and server.crt and .key files. Is that enough, if I run /source ./vars, to create more certs? / -- Raymond Norton LCTN 952.955.7766 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Thu Mar 27 08:36:48 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 08:36:48 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Exporting currently installed printer driver? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Why not just re-download the driver for 10.04 and try that out on 12.04 or 14.04? If it works, it works, if not, no big deal. If you have a spare harddrive to test with -- great. If not, you can likely test with a live USB stick -- I have done similar things in the past. On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 7:17 AM, paul g wrote: > Would this perhaps be somewhat of a starting point to obtain a currently > installed printer-driver on an Ubuntu 10.04 computer? The problem I am > having is that the 'Lexmark X5070' printer I have has no driver available > on the Lexmark website for Ubuntu 12.04. Someone suggested I may be able to > retain the current print driver and install it on Ubuntu 12.04. I know I > can read more but suggestions are welcome. > > Moving printer definitions from one machine to another > > Let us say that you have a print server with 30 defined printers. And you > have to move all those printers to another machine, because you want to > retire that server. Sounds difficult? Yes. But it isn't. > > At least if you have a CentOS 4 or CentOS 3 machine, the printconf command > vanished from CentOS 5. > > *Note:* For moving printer configs with CentOS 5 please see this pageuntil it gets incorporated into the wiki. > > Here's how to do it > > Make yourself at home as root on the old server. > > Issue the following command: > > printconf-tui --Xexport > printers.xml > > Now copy the printers.xml to the new machine. > > Log on to this machine as root, also. > > Do the following: > > printconf-tui --Ximport < printers.xml > > Now the last thing you have to do is restart cups on the new machine - and > you're ready: > > service cups restart > > > > Thanks for your help > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at lctn.org Thu Mar 27 09:32:04 2014 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 09:32:04 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] certs question In-Reply-To: <53342598.2000802@lctn.org> References: <53342598.2000802@lctn.org> Message-ID: <53343664.30103@lctn.org> Figured it out. Just ran through the initial setup for the CA and Server, replaced the generated files with my originals and edited serial for the proper starting point. Works! On 03/27/2014 08:20 AM, Raymond Norton wrote: > I created half a dozen client crt, csr & key files on a laptop with > openvpn. I need to create more client files, but the original laptop > has been upgraded. I have the ca.crt, ca.key, and server.crt and .key > files. Is that enough, if I run /source ./vars, to create more certs?/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Thu Mar 27 23:11:49 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 23:11:49 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Exporting currently installed printer driver? In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Thanks for your reply Jeff. I have to say 'Yes' I have previously tried to install the driver for the Lexmark x5070 on Ubuntu 12.04 but it did not work. I have also tried to install the driver on the Linux Mint Maya 13 distro. Someone said I may be able likely able to copy the driver files from your 10.04 box and install them on the 12.04 (or preferrably 14.04) server. So it's either buy a newer printer or figure out how to copy the driver files over. I tried to dig into it a bit before and the driver I think interacts with cups fine but it was an issue with actually getting any output from the printer. No big deal I just figured I would ask and see what others thought. Thanks for the help though. Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 08:36:48 -0500 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Exporting currently installed printer driver? Why not just re-download the driver for 10.04 and try that out on 12.04 or 14.04? If it works, it works, if not, no big deal. If you have a spare harddrive to test with -- great. If not, you can likely test with a live USB stick -- I have done similar things in the past. On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 7:17 AM, paul g wrote: Would this perhaps be somewhat of a starting point to obtain a currently installed printer-driver on an Ubuntu 10.04 computer? The problem I am having is that the 'Lexmark X5070' printer I have has no driver available on the Lexmark website for Ubuntu 12.04. Someone suggested I may be able to retain the current print driver and install it on Ubuntu 12.04. I know I can read more but suggestions are welcome. Moving printer definitions from one machine to another Let us say that you have a print server with 30 defined printers. And you have to move all those printers to another machine, because you want to retire that server. Sounds difficult? Yes. But it isn't. At least if you have a CentOS 4 or CentOS 3 machine, the printconf command vanished from CentOS 5. Note: For moving printer configs with CentOS 5 please see this page until it gets incorporated into the wiki. Here's how to do it Make yourself at home as root on the old server. Issue the following command: printconf-tui --Xexport > printers.xml Now copy the printers.xml to the new machine. Log on to this machine as root, also. Do the following: printconf-tui --Ximport < printers.xml Now the last thing you have to do is restart cups on the new machine - and you're ready: service cups restart Thanks for your help _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Fri Mar 28 06:10:20 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 06:10:20 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] certs question In-Reply-To: <53343664.30103@lctn.org> References: <53342598.2000802@lctn.org>,<53343664.30103@lctn.org> Message-ID: Can I ask what OS you are using? Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 09:32:04 -0500 From: admin at lctn.org To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] certs question Figured it out. Just ran through the initial setup for the CA and Server, replaced the generated files with my originals and edited serial for the proper starting point. Works! On 03/27/2014 08:20 AM, Raymond Norton wrote: I created half a dozen client crt, csr & key files on a laptop with openvpn. I need to create more client files, but the original laptop has been upgraded. I have the ca.crt, ca.key, and server.crt and .key files. Is that enough, if I run source ./vars, to create more certs? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.a.frisk at gmail.com Fri Mar 28 23:10:22 2014 From: john.a.frisk at gmail.com (John Frisk) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 23:10:22 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound March Meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A friendly reminder that tomorrow morning is the Penguins Unbound meeting. Hope to see you there! On Mar 24, 2014 12:50 PM, "John Frisk" wrote: > Please join the Penguins Unbound group at TIES this Saturday March 29th @ > 10AM central. We'll be discussing Arduino. There is a great agenda posted > already: > > http://www.penguinsunbound.com/Meetings/20140329_-_Arduino > > > Location and other information can be found: > > http://www.penguinsunbound.com/ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sun Mar 30 03:29:24 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 03:29:24 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? Message-ID: We are looking into giving a Mac laptop---->Power Book G4 new life. the computer is currently operating under----> OS X Tiger. My thoughts were Ubuntu or Mint. We want low pollution here. not 'buy a new one' solutions. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SupportedArchitectures The above link states: Please note, that PowerPC Long Term Support ended with Ubuntu 6.06. Any ideas are appreciated. Thank you, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuporglue at gmail.com Sun Mar 30 07:41:11 2014 From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 07:41:11 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I ran Linux on my G3 and G4 MacBooks back in the day. There were always some weird quirks, but generally speaking things worked well enough. Workarounds were well documented, at least back then. If I were installing PowerPC Linux today I would probably use the unsupported Ubuntu Images here: http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/daily/current/ I would install the server version to minimize the chance of something going wrong, then I would install XFCE or another lightweight desktop. If that didn't work, I would use Debian -- it looks like Debian's PowerPC version is still supported and I really like Debian. There's a list of PowerPC distros (including dead and unsupported versions) here: http://penguinppc.org/about-2/distributions/ -- Michael Moore On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 3:29 AM, paul g wrote: > We are looking into giving a Mac laptop---->Power Book G4 new life. the > computer is currently operating under----> OS X Tiger. My thoughts were > Ubuntu or Mint. We want low pollution here. not 'buy a new one' solutions. > > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SupportedArchitectures > > The above link states: Please note, that PowerPC Long Term Support ended > with Ubuntu 6.06. > > Any ideas are appreciated. > > Thank you, > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sun Mar 30 09:30:54 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 09:30:54 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Michael. how can I ensure that upon boot of a properly imaged 'iso' <---- LMDE MINT Ensures boot from the flash drive? <----Power Book G4. How do I load up the Bios screen is a question I have now. Thank you for your help. paul g From: stuporglue at gmail.com Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 07:41:11 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? I ran Linux on my G3 and G4 MacBooks back in the day. There were always some weird quirks, but generally speaking things worked well enough. Workarounds were well documented, at least back then. If I were installing PowerPC Linux today I would probably use the unsupported Ubuntu Images here: http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/daily/current/ I would install the server version to minimize the chance of something going wrong, then I would install XFCE or another lightweight desktop. If that didn't work, I would use Debian -- it looks like Debian's PowerPC version is still supported and I really like Debian. There's a list of PowerPC distros (including dead and unsupported versions) here: http://penguinppc.org/about-2/distributions/ --Michael Moore On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 3:29 AM, paul g wrote: We are looking into giving a Mac laptop---->Power Book G4 new life. the computer is currently operating under----> OS X Tiger. My thoughts were Ubuntu or Mint. We want low pollution here. not 'buy a new one' solutions. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SupportedArchitectures The above link states: Please note, that PowerPC Long Term Support ended with Ubuntu 6.06. Any ideas are appreciated. Thank you, _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.wagle at gmail.com Sun Mar 30 09:35:26 2014 From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 09:35:26 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You don't load a bios screen on a mac. However, to select your boot source, you hold down the command key when you power it on. After the beep you'll get a selection of boot locations that the computer can see at that time. Once you have linux installed, you'll get the same thing. I think you'll need to install rEFIt or some other EFI boot manager as well. On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 9:30 AM, paul g wrote: > Michael. how can I ensure that upon boot of a properly imaged 'iso' <---- > LMDE MINT > > Ensures boot from the flash drive? <----Power Book G4. > > How do I load up the Bios screen is a question I have now. > > Thank you for your help. > > paul g > > > > > ------------------------------ > From: stuporglue at gmail.com > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 07:41:11 -0500 > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? > > > I ran Linux on my G3 and G4 MacBooks back in the day. There were always > some weird quirks, but generally speaking things worked well enough. > Workarounds were well documented, at least back then. > > If I were installing PowerPC Linux today I would probably use the > unsupported Ubuntu Images here: > http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/daily/current/ > > I would install the server version to minimize the chance of something > going wrong, then I would install XFCE or another lightweight desktop. > > If that didn't work, I would use Debian -- it looks like Debian's PowerPC > version is still supported and I really like Debian. > > > There's a list of PowerPC distros (including dead and unsupported > versions) here: http://penguinppc.org/about-2/distributions/ > > -- > Michael Moore > > > > > On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 3:29 AM, paul g wrote: > > We are looking into giving a Mac laptop---->Power Book G4 new life. the > computer is currently operating under----> OS X Tiger. My thoughts were > Ubuntu or Mint. We want low pollution here. not 'buy a new one' solutions. > > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SupportedArchitectures > > The above link states: Please note, that PowerPC Long Term Support ended > with Ubuntu 6.06. > > Any ideas are appreciated. > > Thank you, > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.wagle at gmail.com Sun Mar 30 09:40:56 2014 From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 09:40:56 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh, also, if it were me - I'd seriously consider using Gentoo on older hardware. You can optimize the build for the architecture and you can only install the packages you want. It makes for a very efficient system. It's a more work to set it up, but it gives you some noticeable performance boosts. Of course, that's only if you're really into tinkering with distros and the like -- since gentoo does require a little baby sitting. non-shameless plug -- Gentoo is going to be the topic on the LInux Action Show today for anyone who watches that thing. http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/tag/linux-action-show/ On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 9:35 AM, David Wagle wrote: > You don't load a bios screen on a mac. However, to select your boot > source, you hold down the command key when you power it on. After the beep > you'll get a selection of boot locations that the computer can see at that > time. > > Once you have linux installed, you'll get the same thing. I think you'll > need to install rEFIt or some other EFI boot manager as well. > > > On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 9:30 AM, paul g wrote: > >> Michael. how can I ensure that upon boot of a properly imaged 'iso' <---- >> LMDE MINT >> >> Ensures boot from the flash drive? <----Power Book G4. >> >> How do I load up the Bios screen is a question I have now. >> >> Thank you for your help. >> >> paul g >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> From: stuporglue at gmail.com >> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 07:41:11 -0500 >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? >> >> >> I ran Linux on my G3 and G4 MacBooks back in the day. There were always >> some weird quirks, but generally speaking things worked well enough. >> Workarounds were well documented, at least back then. >> >> If I were installing PowerPC Linux today I would probably use the >> unsupported Ubuntu Images here: >> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/daily/current/ >> >> I would install the server version to minimize the chance of something >> going wrong, then I would install XFCE or another lightweight desktop. >> >> If that didn't work, I would use Debian -- it looks like Debian's PowerPC >> version is still supported and I really like Debian. >> >> >> There's a list of PowerPC distros (including dead and unsupported >> versions) here: http://penguinppc.org/about-2/distributions/ >> >> -- >> Michael Moore >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 3:29 AM, paul g wrote: >> >> We are looking into giving a Mac laptop---->Power Book G4 new life. the >> computer is currently operating under----> OS X Tiger. My thoughts were >> Ubuntu or Mint. We want low pollution here. not 'buy a new one' solutions. >> >> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SupportedArchitectures >> >> The above link states: Please note, that PowerPC Long Term Support ended >> with Ubuntu 6.06. >> >> Any ideas are appreciated. >> >> Thank you, >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuporglue at gmail.com Sun Mar 30 09:47:15 2014 From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 09:47:15 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > You don't load a bios screen on a mac. However, to select your boot > source, you hold down the command key when you power it on. After the beep > you'll get a selection of boot locations that the computer can see at that > time. > Correct. Or, if you know you want to boot from the CD, just hold the "c" key (or maybe it's option-c) before the chime. > Once you have linux installed, you'll get the same thing. I think you'll > need to install rEFIt or some other EFI boot manager as well. > Not for PowerPC macs, EFI didn't pop up on Macs until they switched to Intel chips. PowerPC Macs used Open Firmware, but you wouldn't want to get into Open Firmware like you would the Bios. The Mac's UI and magic key combos will be enough. You can always hold down option during boot to choose which device to boot from, and there are a bunch of other combos that are useful for this or that: http://davespicks.com/writing/programming/mackeys.html#boot -- Michael Moore -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Sun Mar 30 13:59:10 2014 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 18:59:10 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans Message-ID: I'm thinking about attending this C++ conference: cppcon.org in Seattle this fall. If you are interested in joining me on a road trip, let me know. Is anyone going to cppnow.org ? If I were more organized, I'd have signed up for that, but it sold out faster than ever. And I remain interested in a local C++ meeting. -- Brian Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. http://webEbenezer.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sun Mar 30 15:05:39 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:05:39 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would be able to provide transport. Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 18:59:10 +0000 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans I'm thinking about attending this C++ conference: cppcon.org in Seattle this fall. If you are interested in joining me on a road trip, let me know. Is anyone going to cppnow.org ? If I were more organized, I'd have signed up for that, but it sold out faster than ever. And I remain interested in a local C++ meeting. -- Brian Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. http://webEbenezer.net _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sun Mar 30 15:13:34 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:13:34 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Would you work for Linux-Mint? From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:05:39 -0500 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans I would be able to provide transport. Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 18:59:10 +0000 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans I'm thinking about attending this C++ conference: cppcon.org in Seattle this fall. If you are interested in joining me on a road trip, let me know. Is anyone going to cppnow.org ? If I were more organized, I'd have signed up for that, but it sold out faster than ever. And I remain interested in a local C++ meeting. -- Brian Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. http://webEbenezer.net _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sun Mar 30 15:41:22 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:41:22 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: , , , Message-ID: Maybe you are scared to work on the Linux-Mint project. You are needed to weed through any C--- files and make Linux Mint the best. 900.00 a week but you work for MINT. Thank you, PJ 952-406-1430 From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:13:34 -0500 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans Would you work for Linux-Mint? From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:05:39 -0500 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans I would be able to provide transport. Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 18:59:10 +0000 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans I'm thinking about attending this C++ conference: cppcon.org in Seattle this fall. If you are interested in joining me on a road trip, let me know. Is anyone going to cppnow.org ? If I were more organized, I'd have signed up for that, but it sold out faster than ever. And I remain interested in a local C++ meeting. -- Brian Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. http://webEbenezer.net _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Sun Mar 30 16:22:13 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:22:13 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What just happened here? On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 3:41 PM, paul g wrote: > Maybe you are scared to work on the Linux-Mint project. You are needed to > weed through any C--- files and make Linux Mint the best. 900.00 a week but > you work for MINT. > > Thank you, > > > > PJ > 952-406-1430 > > ------------------------------ > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:13:34 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > Would you work for Linux-Mint? > > > ------------------------------ > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:05:39 -0500 > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > I would be able to provide transport. > > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 18:59:10 +0000 > From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > > I'm thinking about attending this C++ conference: > > cppcon.org > > in Seattle this fall. If you are interested in joining me > on a road trip, let me know. > > Is anyone going to cppnow.org ? If I were more > organized, I'd have signed up for that, but it sold > out faster than ever. > > And I remain interested in a local C++ meeting. > > -- > Brian > Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. > http://webEbenezer.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Sun Mar 30 16:36:01 2014 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:36:01 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: , , , Message-ID: What did I just read? On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, paul g wrote: > Maybe you are scared to work on the? Linux-Mint project. You are needed to > weed through any C--- files and make Linux Mint the best. 900.00 a week but > you work for MINT. > > Thank you, > > > > PJ > 952-406-1430 > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:13:34 -0500 > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > Would you work for Linux-Mint? > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:05:39 -0500 > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > I would be able to provide transport. > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 18:59:10 +0000 > From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > > I'm thinking about attending this C++ conference: > > cppcon.org > > in Seattle this fall.?? If you are interested in joining me > on a road trip, let me know.?? > > Is anyone going to cppnow.org ??? If I were more > organized, I'd have signed up for that, but it sold > out faster than ever. > > And I remain interested in a local C++ meeting. > > -- > Brian > Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. > http://webEbenezer.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From pj.world at hotmail.com Sun Mar 30 16:37:05 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:37:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: , , , , Message-ID: I am buying a coder for Linux-Mint you got a problem? Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:22:13 -0500 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans What just happened here? On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 3:41 PM, paul g wrote: Maybe you are scared to work on the Linux-Mint project. You are needed to weed through any C--- files and make Linux Mint the best. 900.00 a week but you work for MINT. Thank you, PJ 952-406-1430 From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:13:34 -0500 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans Would you work for Linux-Mint? From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:05:39 -0500 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans I would be able to provide transport. Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 18:59:10 +0000 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans I'm thinking about attending this C++ conference: cppcon.org in Seattle this fall. If you are interested in joining me on a road trip, let me know. Is anyone going to cppnow.org ? If I were more organized, I'd have signed up for that, but it sold out faster than ever. And I remain interested in a local C++ meeting. -- Brian Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. http://webEbenezer.net _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Sun Mar 30 16:39:24 2014 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:39:24 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: , , , , Message-ID: Hey you show me your $900 and I'll happily do stuff for MINT for a week. On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, paul g wrote: > I am buying a coder for Linux-Mint you got a problem? > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:22:13 -0500 > From: chapinjeff at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > What just happened here? > > > On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 3:41 PM, paul g wrote: > Maybe you are scared to work on the? Linux-Mint project. You are > needed to weed through any C--- files and make Linux Mint the > best. 900.00 a week but you work for MINT. > > Thank you, > > > > PJ > 952-406-1430 > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:13:34 -0500 > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > Would you work for Linux-Mint? > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:05:39 -0500 > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > I would be able to provide transport. > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 18:59:10 +0000 > From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > > I'm thinking about attending this C++ conference: > > cppcon.org > > in Seattle this fall.?? If you are interested in joining me > on a road trip, let me know.?? > > Is anyone going to cppnow.org ??? If I were more > organized, I'd have signed up for that, but it sold > out faster than ever. > > And I remain interested in a local C++ meeting. > > -- > Brian > Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. > http://webEbenezer.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From chapinjeff at gmail.com Sun Mar 30 16:53:29 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:53:29 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Paul, Perhaps a reply to a post about attending a programming conference is not the appropriate place to do that -- and typically potential employers take a much less antagonistic attitude when attempting to recruit. On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 4:37 PM, paul g wrote: > I am buying a coder for Linux-Mint you got a problem? > > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:22:13 -0500 > From: chapinjeff at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > What just happened here? > > > On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 3:41 PM, paul g wrote: > > Maybe you are scared to work on the Linux-Mint project. You are needed to > weed through any C--- files and make Linux Mint the best. 900.00 a week but > you work for MINT. > > Thank you, > > > > PJ > 952-406-1430 > > ------------------------------ > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:13:34 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > Would you work for Linux-Mint? > > > ------------------------------ > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:05:39 -0500 > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > I would be able to provide transport. > > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 18:59:10 +0000 > From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > > I'm thinking about attending this C++ conference: > > cppcon.org > > in Seattle this fall. If you are interested in joining me > on a road trip, let me know. > > Is anyone going to cppnow.org ? If I were more > organized, I'd have signed up for that, but it sold > out faster than ever. > > And I remain interested in a local C++ meeting. > > -- > Brian > Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. > http://webEbenezer.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sun Mar 30 17:05:05 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 17:05:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , , , , , Message-ID: I was asking for the bottom of the barrel guy . MR. Ryan Colman, never helped so now I pay. Direct Donation to Linux-Mint. You care about Mint ? I will give the cash to the so called 'bottom of the barrel guy' The money goes to: Ebenezer Enterprises Thank you, Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:39:24 -0500 From: tclug at freakzilla.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans Hey you show me your $900 and I'll happily do stuff for MINT for a week. On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, paul g wrote: > I am buying a coder for Linux-Mint you got a problem? > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:22:13 -0500 > From: chapinjeff at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > What just happened here? > > > On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 3:41 PM, paul g wrote: > Maybe you are scared to work on the Linux-Mint project. You are > needed to weed through any C--- files and make Linux Mint the > best. 900.00 a week but you work for MINT. > > Thank you, > > > > PJ > 952-406-1430 > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:13:34 -0500 > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > Would you work for Linux-Mint? > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:05:39 -0500 > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > I would be able to provide transport. > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 18:59:10 +0000 > From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > > I'm thinking about attending this C++ conference: > > cppcon.org > > in Seattle this fall. If you are interested in joining me > on a road trip, let me know. > > Is anyone going to cppnow.org ? If I were more > organized, I'd have signed up for that, but it sold > out faster than ever. > > And I remain interested in a local C++ meeting. > > -- > Brian > Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. > http://webEbenezer.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Sun Mar 30 19:41:54 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 19:41:54 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Pardon me? I hope you realize a few things: 1) I have no clue what you?re talking about. 2) I don?t work without a deposit without referral 3) I run a photography wire service. 4) It?s March 5) It?s Mad (see #4) 6) I?ve been busier this month than any other year before. 7) What the heck are you talking about? 8) I don?t program systems. 9) 1-8 On Mar 30, 2014, at 5:05 PM, paul g wrote: > I was asking for the bottom of the barrel guy . MR. Ryan Colman, never helped so now I pay. Direct Donation to Linux-Mint. You care about Mint ? I will give the cash to the so called 'bottom of the barrel guy' The money goes to: > Ebenezer Enterprises > > Thank you, > > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:39:24 -0500 > From: tclug at freakzilla.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > > Hey you show me your $900 and I'll happily do stuff for MINT for a week. > > On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, paul g wrote: > > > I am buying a coder for Linux-Mint you got a problem? > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:22:13 -0500 > > From: chapinjeff at gmail.com > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > > > What just happened here? > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 3:41 PM, paul g wrote: > > Maybe you are scared to work on the Linux-Mint project. You are > > needed to weed through any C--- files and make Linux Mint the > > best. 900.00 a week but you work for MINT. > > > > Thank you, > > > > > > > > PJ > > 952-406-1430 > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:13:34 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > > > Would you work for Linux-Mint? > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:05:39 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > > > I would be able to provide transport. > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 18:59:10 +0000 > > From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > > > > > I'm thinking about attending this C++ conference: > > > > cppcon.org > > > > in Seattle this fall. If you are interested in joining me > > on a road trip, let me know. > > > > Is anyone going to cppnow.org ? If I were more > > organized, I'd have signed up for that, but it sold > > out faster than ever. > > > > And I remain interested in a local C++ meeting. > > > > -- > > Brian > > Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. > > http://webEbenezer.net > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Jeff Chapin > > President, CedarLug, retired > > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > > President, UNI Scuba Club > > Senator, NISG, retired > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Sun Mar 30 20:28:05 2014 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 20:28:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ryan, Please refer to Bryan Cantrill, comp.sys.sun.hardware, dated 10/29/1996, for the correct way to respond to remark like this: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.sun.hardware/wCd7fHnzHjw%5B76-100-false%5D Trolls, get the fuck off the list. -Erik On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 7:41 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > Pardon me? > > I hope you realize a few things: > > 1) I have no clue what you?re talking about. > 2) I don?t work without a deposit without referral > 3) I run a photography wire service. > 4) It?s March > 5) It?s Mad (see #4) > 6) I?ve been busier this month than any other year before. > 7) What the heck are you talking about? > 8) I don?t program systems. > 9) 1-8 > > > > On Mar 30, 2014, at 5:05 PM, paul g wrote: > > I was asking for the bottom of the barrel guy . MR. Ryan Colman, never > helped so now I pay. Direct Donation to Linux-Mint. You care about Mint ? I > will give the cash to the so called 'bottom of the barrel guy' The money > goes to: > > Ebenezer Enterprises > > Thank you, > > > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:39:24 -0500 > From: tclug at freakzilla.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > > Hey you show me your $900 and I'll happily do stuff for MINT for a week. > > On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, paul g wrote: > >> I am buying a coder for Linux-Mint you got a problem? >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________________________ >> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:22:13 -0500 >> From: chapinjeff at gmail.com >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >> >> What just happened here? >> >> >> On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 3:41 PM, paul g wrote: >> Maybe you are scared to work on the Linux-Mint project. You are >> needed to weed through any C--- files and make Linux Mint the >> best. 900.00 a week but you work for MINT. >> >> Thank you, >> >> >> >> PJ >> 952-406-1430 >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________________________ >> From: pj.world at hotmail.com >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:13:34 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >> >> Would you work for Linux-Mint? >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________________________ >> From: pj.world at hotmail.com >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:05:39 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >> >> I would be able to provide transport. >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________________________ >> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 18:59:10 +0000 >> From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >> >> >> I'm thinking about attending this C++ conference: >> >> cppcon.org >> >> in Seattle this fall. If you are interested in joining me >> on a road trip, let me know. >> >> Is anyone going to cppnow.org ? If I were more >> organized, I'd have signed up for that, but it sold >> out faster than ever. >> >> And I remain interested in a local C++ meeting. >> >> -- >> Brian >> Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. >> http://webEbenezer.net >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Jeff Chapin >> President, CedarLug, retired >> President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" >> President, UNI Scuba Club >> Senator, NISG, retired >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Erik K. Mitchell erik.mitchell at gmail.com From ryanjcole at me.com Sun Mar 30 20:32:56 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 20:32:56 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That?s cold. I like it. On Mar 30, 2014, at 8:28 PM, Erik Mitchell wrote: > Ryan, > Please refer to Bryan Cantrill, comp.sys.sun.hardware, dated > 10/29/1996, for the correct way to respond to remark like this: > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.sun.hardware/wCd7fHnzHjw%5B76-100-false%5D > > Trolls, get the fuck off the list. > > -Erik > > On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 7:41 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> Pardon me? >> >> I hope you realize a few things: >> >> 1) I have no clue what you?re talking about. >> 2) I don?t work without a deposit without referral >> 3) I run a photography wire service. >> 4) It?s March >> 5) It?s Mad (see #4) >> 6) I?ve been busier this month than any other year before. >> 7) What the heck are you talking about? >> 8) I don?t program systems. >> 9) 1-8 >> >> >> >> On Mar 30, 2014, at 5:05 PM, paul g wrote: >> >> I was asking for the bottom of the barrel guy . MR. Ryan Colman, never >> helped so now I pay. Direct Donation to Linux-Mint. You care about Mint ? I >> will give the cash to the so called 'bottom of the barrel guy' The money >> goes to: >> >> Ebenezer Enterprises >> >> Thank you, >> >> >> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:39:24 -0500 >> From: tclug at freakzilla.com >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >> >> >> Hey you show me your $900 and I'll happily do stuff for MINT for a week. >> >> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, paul g wrote: >> >>> I am buying a coder for Linux-Mint you got a problem? >>> >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________________ >>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:22:13 -0500 >>> From: chapinjeff at gmail.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>> >>> What just happened here? >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 3:41 PM, paul g wrote: >>> Maybe you are scared to work on the Linux-Mint project. You are >>> needed to weed through any C--- files and make Linux Mint the >>> best. 900.00 a week but you work for MINT. >>> >>> Thank you, >>> >>> >>> >>> PJ >>> 952-406-1430 >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________________ >>> From: pj.world at hotmail.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:13:34 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>> >>> Would you work for Linux-Mint? >>> >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________________ >>> From: pj.world at hotmail.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:05:39 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>> >>> I would be able to provide transport. >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________________ >>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 18:59:10 +0000 >>> From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>> >>> >>> I'm thinking about attending this C++ conference: >>> >>> cppcon.org >>> >>> in Seattle this fall. If you are interested in joining me >>> on a road trip, let me know. >>> >>> Is anyone going to cppnow.org ? If I were more >>> organized, I'd have signed up for that, but it sold >>> out faster than ever. >>> >>> And I remain interested in a local C++ meeting. >>> >>> -- >>> Brian >>> Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. >>> http://webEbenezer.net >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Jeff Chapin >>> President, CedarLug, retired >>> President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" >>> President, UNI Scuba Club >>> Senator, NISG, retired >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > > -- > Erik K. Mitchell > erik.mitchell at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Sun Mar 30 20:33:07 2014 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 20:33:07 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Admin request Message-ID: Whoever is admining this list, please take "pj.world at hotmail.com" of the list, and block the address indefinitely. If it's not done in 24 hours I move that we transfer list administration to Erik Anderson[1] so we don't have to put up with this nonsense anymore. If you oppose, speak up now or forever hold your peace. -Erik [1] if you think you're more qualified, go ahead and nominate yourself. http://serverfault.com/users/20815/eeaa -- Erik K. Mitchell erik.mitchell at gmail.com From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sun Mar 30 20:34:53 2014 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 20:34:53 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Paul G-- Have you ever been diagnosed with "manic depression" or "bipolar disorder?" I'm just asking because sometimes people who have that kind of problem really mean the best and are trying to help, but they might not have as much money as they think they have. Sometimes they make big plans that they later regret -- like anyone, I suppose, but on a somewhat grander scale. Mike On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote: > Pardon me? > > I hope you realize a few things: > > 1) I have no clue what you?re talking about. > 2) I don?t work without a deposit without referral > 3) I run a photography wire service. > 4) It?s March > 5) It?s Mad (see #4) > 6) I?ve been busier this month than any other year before. > 7) What the heck are you talking about? > 8) I don?t program systems. > 9) 1-8 > > > > On Mar 30, 2014, at 5:05 PM, paul g wrote: > >> I was asking for the bottom of the barrel guy . MR. Ryan Colman, never helped so now I pay. Direct Donation to Linux-Mint. You care about Mint ? I will give the cash to the so called 'bottom of the barrel guy' The money goes to: >> Ebenezer Enterprises >> >> Thank you, >> >> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:39:24 -0500 >> From: tclug at freakzilla.com >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >> >> >> Hey you show me your $900 and I'll happily do stuff for MINT for a week. >> >> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, paul g wrote: >> >>> I am buying a coder for Linux-Mint you got a problem? >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________________ >>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:22:13 -0500 >>> From: chapinjeff at gmail.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>> >>> What just happened here? >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 3:41 PM, paul g wrote: >>> Maybe you are scared to work on the Linux-Mint project. You are >>> needed to weed through any C--- files and make Linux Mint the >>> best. 900.00 a week but you work for MINT. >>> >>> Thank you, >>> >>> >>> >>> PJ >>> 952-406-1430 >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________________ >>> From: pj.world at hotmail.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:13:34 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>> >>> Would you work for Linux-Mint? >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________________ >>> From: pj.world at hotmail.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:05:39 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>> >>> I would be able to provide transport. >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________________ >>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 18:59:10 +0000 >>> From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>> >>> >>> I'm thinking about attending this C++ conference: >>> >>> cppcon.org >>> >>> in Seattle this fall. If you are interested in joining me >>> on a road trip, let me know. >>> >>> Is anyone going to cppnow.org ? If I were more >>> organized, I'd have signed up for that, but it sold >>> out faster than ever. >>> >>> And I remain interested in a local C++ meeting. >>> >>> -- >>> Brian >>> Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. >>> http://webEbenezer.net >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Jeff Chapin >>> President, CedarLug, retired >>> President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" >>> President, UNI Scuba Club >>> Senator, NISG, retired >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From ryanjcole at me.com Sun Mar 30 20:36:11 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 20:36:11 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Admin request In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I second Erik?s motion for taking over administration of the list. On Mar 30, 2014, at 8:33 PM, Erik Mitchell wrote: > Whoever is admining this list, please take "pj.world at hotmail.com" of > the list, and block the address indefinitely. > > If it's not done in 24 hours I move that we transfer list > administration to Erik Anderson[1] so we don't have to put up with > this nonsense anymore. > > If you oppose, speak up now or forever hold your peace. > > -Erik > > [1] if you think you're more qualified, go ahead and nominate > yourself. http://serverfault.com/users/20815/eeaa > > -- > Erik K. Mitchell > erik.mitchell at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From pj.world at hotmail.com Sun Mar 30 20:36:53 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 20:36:53 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , , , , Message-ID: I am a man of my word. Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 20:34:53 -0500 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans Paul G-- Have you ever been diagnosed with "manic depression" or "bipolar disorder?" I'm just asking because sometimes people who have that kind of problem really mean the best and are trying to help, but they might not have as much money as they think they have. Sometimes they make big plans that they later regret -- like anyone, I suppose, but on a somewhat grander scale. Mike On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote: > Pardon me? > > I hope you realize a few things: > > 1) I have no clue what you?re talking about. > 2) I don?t work without a deposit without referral > 3) I run a photography wire service. > 4) It?s March > 5) It?s Mad (see #4) > 6) I?ve been busier this month than any other year before. > 7) What the heck are you talking about? > 8) I don?t program systems. > 9) 1-8 > > > > On Mar 30, 2014, at 5:05 PM, paul g wrote: > >> I was asking for the bottom of the barrel guy . MR. Ryan Colman, never helped so now I pay. Direct Donation to Linux-Mint. You care about Mint ? I will give the cash to the so called 'bottom of the barrel guy' The money goes to: >> Ebenezer Enterprises >> >> Thank you, >> >> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:39:24 -0500 >> From: tclug at freakzilla.com >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >> >> >> Hey you show me your $900 and I'll happily do stuff for MINT for a week. >> >> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, paul g wrote: >> >>> I am buying a coder for Linux-Mint you got a problem? >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________________ >>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:22:13 -0500 >>> From: chapinjeff at gmail.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>> >>> What just happened here? >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 3:41 PM, paul g wrote: >>> Maybe you are scared to work on the Linux-Mint project. You are >>> needed to weed through any C--- files and make Linux Mint the >>> best. 900.00 a week but you work for MINT. >>> >>> Thank you, >>> >>> >>> >>> PJ >>> 952-406-1430 >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________________ >>> From: pj.world at hotmail.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:13:34 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>> >>> Would you work for Linux-Mint? >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________________ >>> From: pj.world at hotmail.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:05:39 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>> >>> I would be able to provide transport. >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________________ >>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 18:59:10 +0000 >>> From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>> >>> >>> I'm thinking about attending this C++ conference: >>> >>> cppcon.org >>> >>> in Seattle this fall. If you are interested in joining me >>> on a road trip, let me know. >>> >>> Is anyone going to cppnow.org ? If I were more >>> organized, I'd have signed up for that, but it sold >>> out faster than ever. >>> >>> And I remain interested in a local C++ meeting. >>> >>> -- >>> Brian >>> Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. >>> http://webEbenezer.net >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Jeff Chapin >>> President, CedarLug, retired >>> President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" >>> President, UNI Scuba Club >>> Senator, NISG, retired >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sun Mar 30 20:41:03 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 20:41:03 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , Message-ID: paul g please do not capitalize the letter's. I find it best that I am banned. Thank you for all your help. From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 20:36:53 -0500 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans I am a man of my word. Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 20:34:53 -0500 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans Paul G-- Have you ever been diagnosed with "manic depression" or "bipolar disorder?" I'm just asking because sometimes people who have that kind of problem really mean the best and are trying to help, but they might not have as much money as they think they have. Sometimes they make big plans that they later regret -- like anyone, I suppose, but on a somewhat grander scale. Mike On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote: > Pardon me? > > I hope you realize a few things: > > 1) I have no clue what you?re talking about. > 2) I don?t work without a deposit without referral > 3) I run a photography wire service. > 4) It?s March > 5) It?s Mad (see #4) > 6) I?ve been busier this month than any other year before. > 7) What the heck are you talking about? > 8) I don?t program systems. > 9) 1-8 > > > > On Mar 30, 2014, at 5:05 PM, paul g wrote: > >> I was asking for the bottom of the barrel guy . MR. Ryan Colman, never helped so now I pay. Direct Donation to Linux-Mint. You care about Mint ? I will give the cash to the so called 'bottom of the barrel guy' The money goes to: >> Ebenezer Enterprises >> >> Thank you, >> >> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:39:24 -0500 >> From: tclug at freakzilla.com >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >> >> >> Hey you show me your $900 and I'll happily do stuff for MINT for a week. >> >> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, paul g wrote: >> >>> I am buying a coder for Linux-Mint you got a problem? >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________________ >>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:22:13 -0500 >>> From: chapinjeff at gmail.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>> >>> What just happened here? >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 3:41 PM, paul g wrote: >>> Maybe you are scared to work on the Linux-Mint project. You are >>> needed to weed through any C--- files and make Linux Mint the >>> best. 900.00 a week but you work for MINT. >>> >>> Thank you, >>> >>> >>> >>> PJ >>> 952-406-1430 >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________________ >>> From: pj.world at hotmail.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:13:34 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>> >>> Would you work for Linux-Mint? >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________________ >>> From: pj.world at hotmail.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:05:39 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>> >>> I would be able to provide transport. >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________________ >>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 18:59:10 +0000 >>> From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>> >>> >>> I'm thinking about attending this C++ conference: >>> >>> cppcon.org >>> >>> in Seattle this fall. If you are interested in joining me >>> on a road trip, let me know. >>> >>> Is anyone going to cppnow.org ? If I were more >>> organized, I'd have signed up for that, but it sold >>> out faster than ever. >>> >>> And I remain interested in a local C++ meeting. >>> >>> -- >>> Brian >>> Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. >>> http://webEbenezer.net >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Jeff Chapin >>> President, CedarLug, retired >>> President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" >>> President, UNI Scuba Club >>> Senator, NISG, retired >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Sun Mar 30 20:45:56 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 20:45:56 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At the risk of feeding the troll : the letter's what? On Mar 30, 2014 8:41 PM, "paul g" wrote: > paul g please do not capitalize the letter's. I find it best that I am > banned. > > Thank you for all your help. > > ------------------------------ > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 20:36:53 -0500 > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > I am a man of my word. > > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 20:34:53 -0500 > From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > Paul G-- > > Have you ever been diagnosed with "manic depression" or "bipolar > disorder?" I'm just asking because sometimes people who have that kind of > problem really mean the best and are trying to help, but they might not > have as much money as they think they have. Sometimes they make big plans > that they later regret -- like anyone, I suppose, but on a somewhat > grander scale. > > Mike > > > On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote: > > > Pardon me? > > > > I hope you realize a few things: > > > > 1) I have no clue what you're talking about. > > 2) I don't work without a deposit without referral > > 3) I run a photography wire service. > > 4) It's March > > 5) It's Mad (see #4) > > 6) I've been busier this month than any other year before. > > 7) What the heck are you talking about? > > 8) I don't program systems. > > 9) 1-8 > > > > > > > > On Mar 30, 2014, at 5:05 PM, paul g wrote: > > > >> I was asking for the bottom of the barrel guy . MR. Ryan Colman, never helped so now I pay. Direct Donation to Linux-Mint. You care about Mint ? I will give the cash to the so called 'bottom of the barrel guy' The money goes to: > >> Ebenezer Enterprises > >> > >> Thank you, > >> > >> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:39:24 -0500 > >> From: tclug at freakzilla.com > >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > >> > >> > >> Hey you show me your $900 and I'll happily do stuff for MINT for a week. > >> > >> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, paul g wrote: > >> > >>> I am buying a coder for Linux-Mint you got a problem? > >>> > >>> > >>> ____________________________________________________________________________ > >>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:22:13 -0500 > >>> From: chapinjeff at gmail.com > >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > >>> > >>> What just happened here? > >>> > >>> > >>> On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 3:41 PM, paul g wrote: > >>> Maybe you are scared to work on the Linux-Mint project. You are > >>> needed to weed through any C--- files and make Linux Mint the > >>> best. 900.00 a week but you work for MINT. > >>> > >>> Thank you, > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> PJ > >>> 952-406-1430 > >>> > >>> ____________________________________________________________________________ > >>> From: pj.world at hotmail.com > >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:13:34 -0500 > >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > >>> > >>> Would you work for Linux-Mint? > >>> > >>> > >>> ____________________________________________________________________________ > >>> From: pj.world at hotmail.com > >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:05:39 -0500 > >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > >>> > >>> I would be able to provide transport. > >>> > >>> ____________________________________________________________________________ > >>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 18:59:10 +0000 > >>> From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com > >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >>> Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > >>> > >>> > >>> I'm thinking about attending this C++ conference: > >>> > >>> cppcon.org > >>> > >>> in Seattle this fall. If you are interested in joining me > >>> on a road trip, let me know. > >>> > >>> Is anyone going to cppnow.org ? If I were more > >>> organized, I'd have signed up for that, but it sold > >>> out faster than ever. > >>> > >>> And I remain interested in a local C++ meeting. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Brian > >>> Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. > >>> http://webEbenezer.net > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > >>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > >>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > >>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Jeff Chapin > >>> President, CedarLug, retired > >>> President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > >>> President, UNI Scuba Club > >>> Senator, NISG, retired > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > >>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >>> > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >> _______________________________________________ > >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sun Mar 30 20:48:26 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 20:48:26 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , , , , , , , Message-ID: What does it matter just ban me since I am such a 'user error'. Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 20:45:56 -0500 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans At the risk of feeding the troll : the letter's what? On Mar 30, 2014 8:41 PM, "paul g" wrote: paul g please do not capitalize the letter's. I find it best that I am banned. Thank you for all your help. From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 20:36:53 -0500 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans I am a man of my word. Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 20:34:53 -0500 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans Paul G-- Have you ever been diagnosed with "manic depression" or "bipolar disorder?" I'm just asking because sometimes people who have that kind of problem really mean the best and are trying to help, but they might not have as much money as they think they have. Sometimes they make big plans that they later regret -- like anyone, I suppose, but on a somewhat grander scale. Mike On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote: > Pardon me? > > I hope you realize a few things: > > 1) I have no clue what you?re talking about. > 2) I don?t work without a deposit without referral > 3) I run a photography wire service. > 4) It?s March > 5) It?s Mad (see #4) > 6) I?ve been busier this month than any other year before. > 7) What the heck are you talking about? > 8) I don?t program systems. > 9) 1-8 > > > > On Mar 30, 2014, at 5:05 PM, paul g wrote: > >> I was asking for the bottom of the barrel guy . MR. Ryan Colman, never helped so now I pay. Direct Donation to Linux-Mint. You care about Mint ? I will give the cash to the so called 'bottom of the barrel guy' The money goes to: >> Ebenezer Enterprises >> >> Thank you, >> >> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:39:24 -0500 >> From: tclug at freakzilla.com >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >> >> >> Hey you show me your $900 and I'll happily do stuff for MINT for a week. >> >> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, paul g wrote: >> >>> I am buying a coder for Linux-Mint you got a problem? >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________________ >>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:22:13 -0500 >>> From: chapinjeff at gmail.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>> >>> What just happened here? >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 3:41 PM, paul g wrote: >>> Maybe you are scared to work on the Linux-Mint project. You are >>> needed to weed through any C--- files and make Linux Mint the >>> best. 900.00 a week but you work for MINT. >>> >>> Thank you, >>> >>> >>> >>> PJ >>> 952-406-1430 >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________________ >>> From: pj.world at hotmail.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:13:34 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>> >>> Would you work for Linux-Mint? >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________________ >>> From: pj.world at hotmail.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:05:39 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>> >>> I would be able to provide transport. >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________________ >>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 18:59:10 +0000 >>> From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>> >>> >>> I'm thinking about attending this C++ conference: >>> >>> cppcon.org >>> >>> in Seattle this fall. If you are interested in joining me >>> on a road trip, let me know. >>> >>> Is anyone going to cppnow.org ? If I were more >>> organized, I'd have signed up for that, but it sold >>> out faster than ever. >>> >>> And I remain interested in a local C++ meeting. >>> >>> -- >>> Brian >>> Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. >>> http://webEbenezer.net >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Jeff Chapin >>> President, CedarLug, retired >>> President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" >>> President, UNI Scuba Club >>> Senator, NISG, retired >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sun Mar 30 20:54:30 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 20:54:30 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Please Ban ME Message-ID: I have no education and no fun here just ban me. Thank you, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Sun Mar 30 20:54:52 2014 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 20:54:52 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike I have been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I don't appreciate you inference. I am able to control my behavior. Admin, please attend to my earlier request. Erik On Mar 30, 2014 8:35 PM, "Mike Miller" wrote: > Paul G-- > > Have you ever been diagnosed with "manic depression" or "bipolar > disorder?" I'm just asking because sometimes people who have that kind of > problem really mean the best and are trying to help, but they might not > have as much money as they think they have. Sometimes they make big plans > that they later regret -- like anyone, I suppose, but on a somewhat grander > scale. > > Mike > > > On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote: > > Pardon me? >> >> I hope you realize a few things: >> >> 1) I have no clue what you?re talking about. >> 2) I don?t work without a deposit without referral >> 3) I run a photography wire service. >> 4) It?s March >> 5) It?s Mad (see #4) >> 6) I?ve been busier this month than any other year before. >> 7) What the heck are you talking about? >> 8) I don?t program systems. >> 9) 1-8 >> >> >> >> On Mar 30, 2014, at 5:05 PM, paul g wrote: >> >> I was asking for the bottom of the barrel guy . MR. Ryan Colman, never >>> helped so now I pay. Direct Donation to Linux-Mint. You care about Mint ? I >>> will give the cash to the so called 'bottom of the barrel guy' The money >>> goes to: >>> Ebenezer Enterprises >>> >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:39:24 -0500 >>> From: tclug at freakzilla.com >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>> >>> >>> Hey you show me your $900 and I'll happily do stuff for MINT for a week. >>> >>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, paul g wrote: >>> >>> I am buying a coder for Linux-Mint you got a problem? >>>> >>>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>> ________________ >>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:22:13 -0500 >>>> From: chapinjeff at gmail.com >>>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>>> >>>> What just happened here? >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 3:41 PM, paul g wrote: >>>> Maybe you are scared to work on the Linux-Mint project. You are >>>> needed to weed through any C--- files and make Linux Mint the >>>> best. 900.00 a week but you work for MINT. >>>> >>>> Thank you, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> PJ >>>> 952-406-1430 >>>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>> ________________ >>>> From: pj.world at hotmail.com >>>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:13:34 -0500 >>>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>>> >>>> Would you work for Linux-Mint? >>>> >>>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>> ________________ >>>> From: pj.world at hotmail.com >>>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:05:39 -0500 >>>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>>> >>>> I would be able to provide transport. >>>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>> ________________ >>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 18:59:10 +0000 >>>> From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com >>>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>>> >>>> >>>> I'm thinking about attending this C++ conference: >>>> >>>> cppcon.org >>>> >>>> in Seattle this fall. If you are interested in joining me >>>> on a road trip, let me know. >>>> >>>> Is anyone going to cppnow.org ? If I were more >>>> organized, I'd have signed up for that, but it sold >>>> out faster than ever. >>>> >>>> And I remain interested in a local C++ meeting. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Brian >>>> Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. >>>> http://webEbenezer.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jeff Chapin >>>> President, CedarLug, retired >>>> President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" >>>> President, UNI Scuba Club >>>> Senator, NISG, retired >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erikerik at gmail.com Sun Mar 30 20:55:31 2014 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 20:55:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Admin request In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 8:33 PM, Erik Mitchell wrote: > Whoever is admining this list, please take "pj.world at hotmail.com" of > the list, and block the address indefinitely. > +1, or at the very least, set the moderation bit on his subscription. > If it's not done in 24 hours I move that we transfer list > administration to Erik Anderson[1] so we don't have to put up with > this nonsense anymore. > I appreciate the nomination - I'm very willing to help with list administration. There are others that would be willing and fully capable of fair list administration. -Erik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sun Mar 30 20:56:52 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 20:56:52 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , , , , , Message-ID: Please Ban Me I am stupid and I ask to many questions. Thank you Admin, Sincerly, paul g Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 20:54:52 -0500 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans Mike I have been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I don't appreciate you inference. I am able to control my behavior. Admin, please attend to my earlier request. Erik On Mar 30, 2014 8:35 PM, "Mike Miller" wrote: Paul G-- Have you ever been diagnosed with "manic depression" or "bipolar disorder?" I'm just asking because sometimes people who have that kind of problem really mean the best and are trying to help, but they might not have as much money as they think they have. Sometimes they make big plans that they later regret -- like anyone, I suppose, but on a somewhat grander scale. Mike On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote: Pardon me? I hope you realize a few things: 1) I have no clue what you?re talking about. 2) I don?t work without a deposit without referral 3) I run a photography wire service. 4) It?s March 5) It?s Mad (see #4) 6) I?ve been busier this month than any other year before. 7) What the heck are you talking about? 8) I don?t program systems. 9) 1-8 On Mar 30, 2014, at 5:05 PM, paul g wrote: I was asking for the bottom of the barrel guy . MR. Ryan Colman, never helped so now I pay. Direct Donation to Linux-Mint. You care about Mint ? I will give the cash to the so called 'bottom of the barrel guy' The money goes to: Ebenezer Enterprises Thank you, Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:39:24 -0500 From: tclug at freakzilla.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans Hey you show me your $900 and I'll happily do stuff for MINT for a week. On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, paul g wrote: I am buying a coder for Linux-Mint you got a problem? ____________________________________________________________________________ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:22:13 -0500 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans What just happened here? On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 3:41 PM, paul g wrote: Maybe you are scared to work on the Linux-Mint project. You are needed to weed through any C--- files and make Linux Mint the best. 900.00 a week but you work for MINT. Thank you, PJ 952-406-1430 ____________________________________________________________________________ From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:13:34 -0500 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans Would you work for Linux-Mint? ____________________________________________________________________________ From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:05:39 -0500 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans I would be able to provide transport. ____________________________________________________________________________ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 18:59:10 +0000 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans I'm thinking about attending this C++ conference: cppcon.org in Seattle this fall. If you are interested in joining me on a road trip, let me know. Is anyone going to cppnow.org ? If I were more organized, I'd have signed up for that, but it sold out faster than ever. And I remain interested in a local C++ meeting. -- Brian Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. http://webEbenezer.net _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sun Mar 30 20:58:21 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 20:58:21 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Admin request In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: No way I would dislike to have Erik Anderson admin any part of the tclug list. Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 20:55:31 -0500 From: erikerik at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Admin request On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 8:33 PM, Erik Mitchell wrote: Whoever is admining this list, please take "pj.world at hotmail.com" of the list, and block the address indefinitely. +1, or at the very least, set the moderation bit on his subscription. If it's not done in 24 hours I move that we transfer list administration to Erik Anderson[1] so we don't have to put up with this nonsense anymore. I appreciate the nomination - I'm very willing to help with list administration. There are others that would be willing and fully capable of fair list administration. -Erik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Sun Mar 30 21:00:26 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:00:26 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Asking questions is not the problem. It's how, where and when you ask them. On Mar 30, 2014 8:57 PM, "paul g" wrote: > Please Ban Me I am stupid and I ask to many questions. > > Thank you Admin, > > Sincerly, paul g > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 20:54:52 -0500 > From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > Mike I have been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I don't appreciate you > inference. I am able to control my behavior. > > Admin, please attend to my earlier request. > > Erik > On Mar 30, 2014 8:35 PM, "Mike Miller" wrote: > > Paul G-- > > Have you ever been diagnosed with "manic depression" or "bipolar > disorder?" I'm just asking because sometimes people who have that kind of > problem really mean the best and are trying to help, but they might not > have as much money as they think they have. Sometimes they make big plans > that they later regret -- like anyone, I suppose, but on a somewhat grander > scale. > > Mike > > > On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote: > > Pardon me? > > I hope you realize a few things: > > 1) I have no clue what you're talking about. > 2) I don't work without a deposit without referral > 3) I run a photography wire service. > 4) It's March > 5) It's Mad (see #4) > 6) I've been busier this month than any other year before. > 7) What the heck are you talking about? > 8) I don't program systems. > 9) 1-8 > > > > On Mar 30, 2014, at 5:05 PM, paul g wrote: > > I was asking for the bottom of the barrel guy . MR. Ryan Colman, never > helped so now I pay. Direct Donation to Linux-Mint. You care about Mint ? I > will give the cash to the so called 'bottom of the barrel guy' The money > goes to: > Ebenezer Enterprises > > Thank you, > > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:39:24 -0500 > From: tclug at freakzilla.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > > Hey you show me your $900 and I'll happily do stuff for MINT for a week. > > On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, paul g wrote: > > I am buying a coder for Linux-Mint you got a problem? > > > ____________________________________________________________ > ________________ > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:22:13 -0500 > From: chapinjeff at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > What just happened here? > > > On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 3:41 PM, paul g wrote: > Maybe you are scared to work on the Linux-Mint project. You are > needed to weed through any C--- files and make Linux Mint the > best. 900.00 a week but you work for MINT. > > Thank you, > > > > PJ > 952-406-1430 > > ____________________________________________________________ > ________________ > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:13:34 -0500 > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > Would you work for Linux-Mint? > > > ____________________________________________________________ > ________________ > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:05:39 -0500 > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > I would be able to provide transport. > > ____________________________________________________________ > ________________ > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 18:59:10 +0000 > From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > > I'm thinking about attending this C++ conference: > > cppcon.org > > in Seattle this fall. If you are interested in joining me > on a road trip, let me know. > > Is anyone going to cppnow.org ? If I were more > organized, I'd have signed up for that, but it sold > out faster than ever. > > And I remain interested in a local C++ meeting. > > -- > Brian > Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. > http://webEbenezer.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erikerik at gmail.com Sun Mar 30 21:00:53 2014 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:00:53 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 8:56 PM, paul g wrote: > Please Ban Me I am stupid and I ask to many questions. Hi Paul - If you wish, you can unsubscribe yourself - just email tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org with "unsubscribe" as the email subject. -Erik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sun Mar 30 21:01:15 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:01:15 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Ban paul g, Message-ID: paul g is a novice loser who asks questions . please ban him. Thank you, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sun Mar 30 21:02:27 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:02:27 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , , , , , , , Message-ID: Thanks Erik. I will hope to be banned soon. Your help is incredible. Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:00:53 -0500 From: erikerik at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 8:56 PM, paul g wrote: Please Ban Me I am stupid and I ask to many questions. Hi Paul - If you wish, you can unsubscribe yourself - just email tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org with "unsubscribe" as the email subject. -Erik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuporglue at gmail.com Sun Mar 30 21:05:50 2014 From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:05:50 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Admin request In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 8:55 PM, Erik Anderson wrote: > On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 8:33 PM, Erik Mitchell wrote: > >> Whoever is admining this list, please take "pj.world at hotmail.com" of >> the list, and block the address indefinitely. >> > > +1, or at the very least, set the moderation bit on his subscription. > If this is an option, this would be my vote. Many of Paul's questions are potentially interesting or helpful to others. Not everything he posts makes sense or is appropriate, but if there's an option to moderate his input we could lose the odd stuff and keep the good. Paul: If you can tell us where you're coming from, it would help us figure out if you're just trolling the list or not. Every newbie has lots of questions and needs to learn how mailing list etiquette works. So, if you're really interested in Linux and staying on the list, make a case for yourself. Tell us your education and work background. Tell us what kind of computer you've got and what you want to do with it. If you've got a personal website or public Facebook page or something, link to it. Basically, if we can see that you're a real person with real interest in learning Linux, we're more likely to help and explain the etiquette along with the answers to your questions. Right now the way you're asking questions and some of your responses make it seem like you're just trying to stir up trouble. -- Michael Moore -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sun Mar 30 21:10:24 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:10:24 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Admin request In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: I used to pull truck frames on a frame rack and fill cars with body filler and prime them. I really do not mind being banned. I do not like the help on here a whole lot. I feel angry right now and I am looked at as a piece of trash. Thank you, From: stuporglue at gmail.com Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:05:50 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Admin request On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 8:55 PM, Erik Anderson wrote: On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 8:33 PM, Erik Mitchell wrote: Whoever is admining this list, please take "pj.world at hotmail.com" of the list, and block the address indefinitely. +1, or at the very least, set the moderation bit on his subscription. If this is an option, this would be my vote. Many of Paul's questions are potentially interesting or helpful to others. Not everything he posts makes sense or is appropriate, but if there's an option to moderate his input we could lose the odd stuff and keep the good. Paul: If you can tell us where you're coming from, it would help us figure out if you're just trolling the list or not. Every newbie has lots of questions and needs to learn how mailing list etiquette works. So, if you're really interested in Linux and staying on the list, make a case for yourself. Tell us your education and work background. Tell us what kind of computer you've got and what you want to do with it. If you've got a personal website or public Facebook page or something, link to it. Basically, if we can see that you're a real person with real interest in learning Linux, we're more likely to help and explain the etiquette along with the answers to your questions. Right now the way you're asking questions and some of your responses make it seem like you're just trying to stir up trouble. -- Michael Moore _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sun Mar 30 21:13:27 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:13:27 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Admin request In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , Message-ID: I don't want any trouble I wanted help. At this point I get mocked and I am sick of that. I will learn about linux and most of you do not care to help. SO BAN ME. Thank you, From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:10:24 -0500 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Admin request I used to pull truck frames on a frame rack and fill cars with body filler and prime them. I really do not mind being banned. I do not like the help on here a whole lot. I feel angry right now and I am looked at as a piece of trash. Thank you, From: stuporglue at gmail.com Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:05:50 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Admin request On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 8:55 PM, Erik Anderson wrote: On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 8:33 PM, Erik Mitchell wrote: Whoever is admining this list, please take "pj.world at hotmail.com" of the list, and block the address indefinitely. +1, or at the very least, set the moderation bit on his subscription. If this is an option, this would be my vote. Many of Paul's questions are potentially interesting or helpful to others. Not everything he posts makes sense or is appropriate, but if there's an option to moderate his input we could lose the odd stuff and keep the good. Paul: If you can tell us where you're coming from, it would help us figure out if you're just trolling the list or not. Every newbie has lots of questions and needs to learn how mailing list etiquette works. So, if you're really interested in Linux and staying on the list, make a case for yourself. Tell us your education and work background. Tell us what kind of computer you've got and what you want to do with it. If you've got a personal website or public Facebook page or something, link to it. Basically, if we can see that you're a real person with real interest in learning Linux, we're more likely to help and explain the etiquette along with the answers to your questions. Right now the way you're asking questions and some of your responses make it seem like you're just trying to stir up trouble. -- Michael Moore _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Sun Mar 30 21:13:30 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:13:30 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Admin request In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Paul, I do not feel that anyone has expressed that they feel that way about you, I just think that many people are a little frustrated with the communication difficulties we are having when we try to communicate with you. Many of us would love to help you, but you need to help us figure out how we can best communicate with you. Jeff On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 9:10 PM, paul g wrote: > I used to pull truck frames on a frame rack and fill cars with body filler > and prime them. I really do not mind being banned. I do not like the help > on here a whole lot. I feel angry right now and I am looked at as a piece > of trash. > > Thank you, > > > ------------------------------ > From: stuporglue at gmail.com > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:05:50 -0500 > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Admin request > > On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 8:55 PM, Erik Anderson wrote: > > On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 8:33 PM, Erik Mitchell wrote: > > Whoever is admining this list, please take "pj.world at hotmail.com" of > the list, and block the address indefinitely. > > > +1, or at the very least, set the moderation bit on his subscription. > > > If this is an option, this would be my vote. Many of Paul's questions are > potentially interesting or helpful to others. > > Not everything he posts makes sense or is appropriate, but if there's an > option to moderate his input we could lose the odd stuff and keep the good. > > Paul: > If you can tell us where you're coming from, it would help us figure out > if you're just trolling the list or not. Every newbie has lots of questions > and needs to learn how mailing list etiquette works. > > So, if you're really interested in Linux and staying on the list, make a > case for yourself. Tell us your education and work background. Tell us what > kind of computer you've got and what you want to do with it. If you've got > a personal website or public Facebook page or something, link to it. > > Basically, if we can see that you're a real person with real interest in > learning Linux, we're more likely to help and explain the etiquette along > with the answers to your questions. Right now the way you're asking > questions and some of your responses make it seem like you're just trying > to stir up trouble. > > -- > Michael Moore > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sun Mar 30 21:16:01 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:16:01 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Admin request In-Reply-To: References: , , , , Message-ID: I have bad communication skills and I feel upset with my knowledge and I do really want to learn. I cry alot and I feel like a piece of trash and the time others help me I do respect. Thank you, Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:13:30 -0500 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Admin request Paul, I do not feel that anyone has expressed that they feel that way about you, I just think that many people are a little frustrated with the communication difficulties we are having when we try to communicate with you. Many of us would love to help you, but you need to help us figure out how we can best communicate with you. Jeff On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 9:10 PM, paul g wrote: I used to pull truck frames on a frame rack and fill cars with body filler and prime them. I really do not mind being banned. I do not like the help on here a whole lot. I feel angry right now and I am looked at as a piece of trash. Thank you, From: stuporglue at gmail.com Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:05:50 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Admin request On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 8:55 PM, Erik Anderson wrote: On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 8:33 PM, Erik Mitchell wrote: Whoever is admining this list, please take "pj.world at hotmail.com" of the list, and block the address indefinitely. +1, or at the very least, set the moderation bit on his subscription. If this is an option, this would be my vote. Many of Paul's questions are potentially interesting or helpful to others. Not everything he posts makes sense or is appropriate, but if there's an option to moderate his input we could lose the odd stuff and keep the good. Paul: If you can tell us where you're coming from, it would help us figure out if you're just trolling the list or not. Every newbie has lots of questions and needs to learn how mailing list etiquette works. So, if you're really interested in Linux and staying on the list, make a case for yourself. Tell us your education and work background. Tell us what kind of computer you've got and what you want to do with it. If you've got a personal website or public Facebook page or something, link to it. Basically, if we can see that you're a real person with real interest in learning Linux, we're more likely to help and explain the etiquette along with the answers to your questions. Right now the way you're asking questions and some of your responses make it seem like you're just trying to stir up trouble. -- Michael Moore _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sun Mar 30 21:19:27 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:19:27 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Admin request In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , , , , Message-ID: I am not a troll and I ask stupid questions to get a variety of anwsers. I do really want to learn about Unix/Linux I guess you are my friends and I take life to serious. From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:16:01 -0500 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Admin request I have bad communication skills and I feel upset with my knowledge and I do really want to learn. I cry alot and I feel like a piece of trash and the time others help me I do respect. Thank you, Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:13:30 -0500 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Admin request Paul, I do not feel that anyone has expressed that they feel that way about you, I just think that many people are a little frustrated with the communication difficulties we are having when we try to communicate with you. Many of us would love to help you, but you need to help us figure out how we can best communicate with you. Jeff On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 9:10 PM, paul g wrote: I used to pull truck frames on a frame rack and fill cars with body filler and prime them. I really do not mind being banned. I do not like the help on here a whole lot. I feel angry right now and I am looked at as a piece of trash. Thank you, From: stuporglue at gmail.com Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:05:50 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Admin request On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 8:55 PM, Erik Anderson wrote: On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 8:33 PM, Erik Mitchell wrote: Whoever is admining this list, please take "pj.world at hotmail.com" of the list, and block the address indefinitely. +1, or at the very least, set the moderation bit on his subscription. If this is an option, this would be my vote. Many of Paul's questions are potentially interesting or helpful to others. Not everything he posts makes sense or is appropriate, but if there's an option to moderate his input we could lose the odd stuff and keep the good. Paul: If you can tell us where you're coming from, it would help us figure out if you're just trolling the list or not. Every newbie has lots of questions and needs to learn how mailing list etiquette works. So, if you're really interested in Linux and staying on the list, make a case for yourself. Tell us your education and work background. Tell us what kind of computer you've got and what you want to do with it. If you've got a personal website or public Facebook page or something, link to it. Basically, if we can see that you're a real person with real interest in learning Linux, we're more likely to help and explain the etiquette along with the answers to your questions. Right now the way you're asking questions and some of your responses make it seem like you're just trying to stir up trouble. -- Michael Moore _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sun Mar 30 21:22:48 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:22:48 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Admin request In-Reply-To: References: , ,,, ,,, ,,, , , , , , Message-ID: Who cares I am trash and that is really how I feel about myself inside. I am not smart and I just think maybe I got in over my head with linux. I am not here to mock people I do have a problem with being jealous a bit. I don't know I just feel sad. sorry ok. just ban me out. who cares. From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:19:27 -0500 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Admin request I am not a troll and I ask stupid questions to get a variety of anwsers. I do really want to learn about Unix/Linux I guess you are my friends and I take life to serious. From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:16:01 -0500 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Admin request I have bad communication skills and I feel upset with my knowledge and I do really want to learn. I cry alot and I feel like a piece of trash and the time others help me I do respect. Thank you, Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:13:30 -0500 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Admin request Paul, I do not feel that anyone has expressed that they feel that way about you, I just think that many people are a little frustrated with the communication difficulties we are having when we try to communicate with you. Many of us would love to help you, but you need to help us figure out how we can best communicate with you. Jeff On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 9:10 PM, paul g wrote: I used to pull truck frames on a frame rack and fill cars with body filler and prime them. I really do not mind being banned. I do not like the help on here a whole lot. I feel angry right now and I am looked at as a piece of trash. Thank you, From: stuporglue at gmail.com Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:05:50 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Admin request On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 8:55 PM, Erik Anderson wrote: On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 8:33 PM, Erik Mitchell wrote: Whoever is admining this list, please take "pj.world at hotmail.com" of the list, and block the address indefinitely. +1, or at the very least, set the moderation bit on his subscription. If this is an option, this would be my vote. Many of Paul's questions are potentially interesting or helpful to others. Not everything he posts makes sense or is appropriate, but if there's an option to moderate his input we could lose the odd stuff and keep the good. Paul: If you can tell us where you're coming from, it would help us figure out if you're just trolling the list or not. Every newbie has lots of questions and needs to learn how mailing list etiquette works. So, if you're really interested in Linux and staying on the list, make a case for yourself. Tell us your education and work background. Tell us what kind of computer you've got and what you want to do with it. If you've got a personal website or public Facebook page or something, link to it. Basically, if we can see that you're a real person with real interest in learning Linux, we're more likely to help and explain the etiquette along with the answers to your questions. Right now the way you're asking questions and some of your responses make it seem like you're just trying to stir up trouble. -- Michael Moore _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Sun Mar 30 21:23:24 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:23:24 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <493F141B-A83E-43AA-BD8F-ED6E36B6EE2A@me.com> pAUL g aka PJ.WORLD at HOTMAIL.COM: Instead of being a dick, why not just STFU? If you need to get your foot out of your mouth I can recommend a number of ENT specialists. On Mar 30, 2014, at 9:02 PM, paul g wrote: > Thanks Erik. I will hope to be banned soon. Your help is incredible. > > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:00:53 -0500 > From: erikerik at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 8:56 PM, paul g wrote: > Please Ban Me I am stupid and I ask to many questions. > > Hi Paul - > > If you wish, you can unsubscribe yourself - just email tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org with "unsubscribe" as the email subject. > > -Erik > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sun Mar 30 21:28:10 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:28:10 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: <493F141B-A83E-43AA-BD8F-ED6E36B6EE2A@me.com> References: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , <493F141B-A83E-43AA-BD8F-ED6E36B6EE2A@me.com> Message-ID: Thanks Ryan. I need the help. From: ryanjcole at me.com Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:23:24 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans pAUL g aka PJ.WORLD at HOTMAIL.COM: Instead of being a dick, why not just STFU? If you need to get your foot out of your mouth I can recommend a number of ENT specialists. On Mar 30, 2014, at 9:02 PM, paul g wrote:Thanks Erik. I will hope to be banned soon. Your help is incredible. Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:00:53 -0500 From: erikerik at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 8:56 PM, paul g wrote: Please Ban Me I am stupid and I ask to many questions. Hi Paul - If you wish, you can unsubscribe yourself - just email tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org with "unsubscribe" as the email subject. -Erik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list_______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sun Mar 30 21:35:27 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:35:27 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , <493F141B-A83E-43AA-BD8F-ED6E36B6EE2A@me.com>, Message-ID: I am not a troll From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:28:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans Thanks Ryan. I need the help. From: ryanjcole at me.com Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:23:24 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans pAUL g aka PJ.WORLD at HOTMAIL.COM: Instead of being a dick, why not just STFU? If you need to get your foot out of your mouth I can recommend a number of ENT specialists. On Mar 30, 2014, at 9:02 PM, paul g wrote:Thanks Erik. I will hope to be banned soon. Your help is incredible. Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:00:53 -0500 From: erikerik at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 8:56 PM, paul g wrote: Please Ban Me I am stupid and I ask to many questions. Hi Paul - If you wish, you can unsubscribe yourself - just email tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org with "unsubscribe" as the email subject. -Erik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list_______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sun Mar 30 21:42:34 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:42:34 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] When is the 'banning' of paul g. Message-ID: So when and for how long will paul g be banned? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sun Mar 30 21:51:06 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:51:06 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Hello Message-ID: Hi, I am just requesting a status check on my account. Thank you, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Sun Mar 30 21:53:25 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:53:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Hello In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Paul, Please just take a few deep breaths and call it a night. If you actually want off the list, unsubscribe, otherwise wait and see what happens. Jeff On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 9:51 PM, paul g wrote: > Hi, I am just requesting a status check on my account. > > > Thank you, > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erikerik at gmail.com Sun Mar 30 21:54:34 2014 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:54:34 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Hello In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 9:51 PM, paul g wrote: > Hi, I am just requesting a status check on my account. Paul, as has become obvious in the last few months, the list administrators (for whatever reason) are not frequently active on the list, so you'll need to give them some time. As I mentioned earlier, you can always unsub yourself from the list if you choose. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sun Mar 30 21:54:55 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:54:55 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Hello In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Alright, Thank you, Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:53:25 -0500 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Hello Paul, Please just take a few deep breaths and call it a night. If you actually want off the list, unsubscribe, otherwise wait and see what happens. Jeff On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 9:51 PM, paul g wrote: Hi, I am just requesting a status check on my account. Thank you, _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Sun Mar 30 22:43:21 2014 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 22:43:21 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: <493F141B-A83E-43AA-BD8F-ED6E36B6EE2A@me.com> Message-ID: Then perhaps it would be decent of you to state your full legal name and apologize for your comments to Ryan. On Mar 30, 2014 9:36 PM, "paul g" wrote: > I am not a troll > > ------------------------------ > From: pj.world at hotmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:28:10 -0500 > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > Thanks Ryan. I need the help. > > ------------------------------ > From: ryanjcole at me.com > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:23:24 -0500 > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > pAUL g aka PJ.WORLD at HOTMAIL.COM: > > Instead of being a dick, why not just STFU? > > If you need to get your foot out of your mouth I can recommend a number of > ENT specialists. > > > On Mar 30, 2014, at 9:02 PM, paul g wrote: > > Thanks Erik. I will hope to be banned soon. Your help is incredible. > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:00:53 -0500 > From: erikerik at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans > > On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 8:56 PM, paul g wrote: > > Please Ban Me I am stupid and I ask to many questions. > > > Hi Paul - > > If you wish, you can unsubscribe yourself - just email > tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org with "unsubscribe" as the email subject. > > -Erik > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Mar 31 01:10:03 2014 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 01:10:03 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well, Erik, maybe you should learn more about it. Having a diagnosis doesn't mean you are the same as everyone else with that diagnosis. Mike On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, Erik Mitchell wrote: > Mike I have been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I don't appreciate you > inference. I am able to control my behavior. > > Admin, please attend to my earlier request. > > Erik > On Mar 30, 2014 8:35 PM, "Mike Miller" wrote: > >> Paul G-- >> >> Have you ever been diagnosed with "manic depression" or "bipolar >> disorder?" I'm just asking because sometimes people who have that kind >> of problem really mean the best and are trying to help, but they might >> not have as much money as they think they have. Sometimes they make >> big plans that they later regret -- like anyone, I suppose, but on a >> somewhat grander scale. >> >> Mike >> >> >> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> >> Pardon me? >>> >>> I hope you realize a few things: >>> >>> 1) I have no clue what you?re talking about. >>> 2) I don?t work without a deposit without referral >>> 3) I run a photography wire service. >>> 4) It?s March >>> 5) It?s Mad (see #4) >>> 6) I?ve been busier this month than any other year before. >>> 7) What the heck are you talking about? >>> 8) I don?t program systems. >>> 9) 1-8 >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mar 30, 2014, at 5:05 PM, paul g wrote: >>> >>> I was asking for the bottom of the barrel guy . MR. Ryan Colman, never >>>> helped so now I pay. Direct Donation to Linux-Mint. You care about Mint ? I >>>> will give the cash to the so called 'bottom of the barrel guy' The money >>>> goes to: >>>> Ebenezer Enterprises >>>> >>>> Thank you, >>>> >>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:39:24 -0500 >>>> From: tclug at freakzilla.com >>>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>>> >>>> >>>> Hey you show me your $900 and I'll happily do stuff for MINT for a week. >>>> >>>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, paul g wrote: >>>> >>>> I am buying a coder for Linux-Mint you got a problem? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>> ________________ >>>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:22:13 -0500 >>>>> From: chapinjeff at gmail.com >>>>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>>>> >>>>> What just happened here? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 3:41 PM, paul g wrote: >>>>> Maybe you are scared to work on the Linux-Mint project. You are >>>>> needed to weed through any C--- files and make Linux Mint the >>>>> best. 900.00 a week but you work for MINT. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> PJ >>>>> 952-406-1430 >>>>> >>>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>> ________________ >>>>> From: pj.world at hotmail.com >>>>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:13:34 -0500 >>>>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>>>> >>>>> Would you work for Linux-Mint? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>> ________________ >>>>> From: pj.world at hotmail.com >>>>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:05:39 -0500 >>>>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>>>> >>>>> I would be able to provide transport. >>>>> >>>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>> ________________ >>>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 18:59:10 +0000 >>>>> From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com >>>>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>> Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I'm thinking about attending this C++ conference: >>>>> >>>>> cppcon.org >>>>> >>>>> in Seattle this fall. If you are interested in joining me >>>>> on a road trip, let me know. >>>>> >>>>> Is anyone going to cppnow.org ? If I were more >>>>> organized, I'd have signed up for that, but it sold >>>>> out faster than ever. >>>>> >>>>> And I remain interested in a local C++ meeting. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Brian >>>>> Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. >>>>> http://webEbenezer.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>>>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>>>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>>>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Jeff Chapin >>>>> President, CedarLug, retired >>>>> President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" >>>>> President, UNI Scuba Club >>>>> Senator, NISG, retired >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>>>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Mon Mar 31 07:01:25 2014 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 07:01:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have a B.A. in Psychology from the U of M, and I've been living with a diagnosis for 7 years. I think I know enough. I at least know enough to not speculate on others' health matters in public forum. Also, "manic depression" is a term which was retired from use in 1980, if my quick google search found an accurate result. And if you were to discuss a person with influenza or cancer, you wouldn't put quotation marks around those conditions, as if to say "so called." I'm not going to discuss this anymore in this setting. I don't think this group or this list should continue on without some kind of governance, as we run the risk of hurting people who may be in a vulnerable condition. We shouldn't just bandy about this kind of nonsense. I respectfully ask that we bring this thread to a close and wait on the list administrator to weigh in on the matter. Thanks, Erik On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 1:10 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > Well, Erik, maybe you should learn more about it. Having a diagnosis > doesn't mean you are the same as everyone else with that diagnosis. > > Mike > > > > On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, Erik Mitchell wrote: > >> Mike I have been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I don't appreciate you >> inference. I am able to control my behavior. >> >> Admin, please attend to my earlier request. >> >> Erik >> On Mar 30, 2014 8:35 PM, "Mike Miller" wrote: >> >>> Paul G-- >>> >>> Have you ever been diagnosed with "manic depression" or "bipolar >>> disorder?" I'm just asking because sometimes people who have that kind of >>> problem really mean the best and are trying to help, but they might not have >>> as much money as they think they have. Sometimes they make big plans that >>> they later regret -- like anyone, I suppose, but on a somewhat grander >>> scale. >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> >>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>> >>> Pardon me? >>>> >>>> >>>> I hope you realize a few things: >>>> >>>> 1) I have no clue what you?re talking about. >>>> 2) I don?t work without a deposit without referral >>>> 3) I run a photography wire service. >>>> 4) It?s March >>>> 5) It?s Mad (see #4) >>>> 6) I?ve been busier this month than any other year before. >>>> 7) What the heck are you talking about? >>>> 8) I don?t program systems. >>>> 9) 1-8 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mar 30, 2014, at 5:05 PM, paul g wrote: >>>> >>>> I was asking for the bottom of the barrel guy . MR. Ryan Colman, never >>>>> >>>>> helped so now I pay. Direct Donation to Linux-Mint. You care about Mint >>>>> ? I >>>>> will give the cash to the so called 'bottom of the barrel guy' The >>>>> money >>>>> goes to: >>>>> Ebenezer Enterprises >>>>> >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> >>>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:39:24 -0500 >>>>> From: tclug at freakzilla.com >>>>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hey you show me your $900 and I'll happily do stuff for MINT for a >>>>> week. >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, paul g wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I am buying a coder for Linux-Mint you got a problem? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>>> ________________ >>>>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:22:13 -0500 >>>>>> From: chapinjeff at gmail.com >>>>>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>>>>> >>>>>> What just happened here? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 3:41 PM, paul g wrote: >>>>>> Maybe you are scared to work on the Linux-Mint project. You are >>>>>> needed to weed through any C--- files and make Linux Mint the >>>>>> best. 900.00 a week but you work for MINT. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> PJ >>>>>> 952-406-1430 >>>>>> >>>>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>>> ________________ >>>>>> From: pj.world at hotmail.com >>>>>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:13:34 -0500 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>>>>> >>>>>> Would you work for Linux-Mint? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>>> ________________ >>>>>> From: pj.world at hotmail.com >>>>>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:05:39 -0500 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>>>>> >>>>>> I would be able to provide transport. >>>>>> >>>>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>>> ________________ >>>>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 18:59:10 +0000 >>>>>> From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com >>>>>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>> Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm thinking about attending this C++ conference: >>>>>> >>>>>> cppcon.org >>>>>> >>>>>> in Seattle this fall. If you are interested in joining me >>>>>> on a road trip, let me know. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is anyone going to cppnow.org ? If I were more >>>>>> organized, I'd have signed up for that, but it sold >>>>>> out faster than ever. >>>>>> >>>>>> And I remain interested in a local C++ meeting. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Brian >>>>>> Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. >>>>>> http://webEbenezer.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>>>>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>>>>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>>>>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Jeff Chapin >>>>>> President, CedarLug, retired >>>>>> President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" >>>>>> President, UNI Scuba Club >>>>>> Senator, NISG, retired >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>>>>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>>>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Erik K. Mitchell erik.mitchell at gmail.com From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Mar 31 09:30:06 2014 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 09:30:06 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 31 Mar 2014, Erik Mitchell wrote: > I have a B.A. in Psychology from the U of M, and I've been living with a > diagnosis for 7 years. I think I know enough. I at least know enough to > not speculate on others' health matters in public forum. Well, you are a morally superior person. I do have a Ph.D. in psychology from U Wisconsin where I studied mostly schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. I also have three Master's degrees and a B.S. Here's some info about my published papers: http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=EV_phq4AAAAJ > Also, "manic depression" is a term which was retired from use in 1980 Here's another area where you could stand to do more reading. A lot of people don't really like the term "bipolar disorder." This is the classic text in the field: from 1990 (2nd ed. 2007): Manic-Depressive Illness: Bipolar Disorders and Recurrent Depression, 2nd Edition [Hardcover] by Frederick K. Goodwin & Kay Redfield Jamison http://www.amazon.com/Manic-Depressive-Illness-Disorders-Recurrent-Depression/dp/0195135792 Here's a good one "for Patients, Families, and Providers": from 2005: Surviving Manic Depression: A Manual on Bipolar Disorder for Patients, Families, and Providers by by E. Fuller Torrey M.D. & Michael B. Knable D.O. http://www.amazon.com/Surviving-Manic-Depression-Disorder-Providers/dp/0465086640 Note that they use both terms, which is what I did. Regarding "paul g" -- he has a fairly long history of intermittently sending strange messages to the list, sometimes making vague accusations. This time he was offering jobs to people. I had suggested once before that he might have mental health problems. This time I made a more specific suggestion of what sort of problem that might be. I was hoping that might help people to be more sympathetic and less angry about his messages. Mike From lkateley at kateley.com Mon Mar 31 09:35:11 2014 From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 09:35:11 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53397D1F.90907@kateley.com> I really hate being this person, but .. can we get back on topic? If you don't like what someone says, click delete. If we discuss the psychological/behavioral difference of geeks, the internet doesn't have enough bandwidth :) linda weird and proud... On 3/31/14, 9:30 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Mon, 31 Mar 2014, Erik Mitchell wrote: > >> I have a B.A. in Psychology from the U of M, and I've been living >> with a diagnosis for 7 years. I think I know enough. I at least know >> enough to not speculate on others' health matters in public forum. > > Well, you are a morally superior person. I do have a Ph.D. in > psychology from U Wisconsin where I studied mostly schizophrenia and > bipolar disorder. I also have three Master's degrees and a B.S. > Here's some info about my published papers: > > http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=EV_phq4AAAAJ > > >> Also, "manic depression" is a term which was retired from use in 1980 > > Here's another area where you could stand to do more reading. A lot > of people don't really like the term "bipolar disorder." This is the > classic text in the field: > > from 1990 (2nd ed. 2007): > Manic-Depressive Illness: Bipolar Disorders and Recurrent Depression, > 2nd Edition [Hardcover] > by Frederick K. Goodwin & Kay Redfield Jamison > http://www.amazon.com/Manic-Depressive-Illness-Disorders-Recurrent-Depression/dp/0195135792 > > > Here's a good one "for Patients, Families, and Providers": > > from 2005: > Surviving Manic Depression: A Manual on Bipolar Disorder for Patients, > Families, and Providers > by by E. Fuller Torrey M.D. & Michael B. Knable D.O. > http://www.amazon.com/Surviving-Manic-Depression-Disorder-Providers/dp/0465086640 > > > > Note that they use both terms, which is what I did. > > > Regarding "paul g" -- he has a fairly long history of intermittently > sending strange messages to the list, sometimes making vague > accusations. This time he was offering jobs to people. I had > suggested once before that he might have mental health problems. This > time I made a more specific suggestion of what sort of problem that > might be. I was hoping that might help people to be more sympathetic > and less angry about his messages. > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david.wagle at gmail.com Mon Mar 31 09:48:47 2014 From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 09:48:47 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5339804F.8050507@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 As someone pursuing graduate studies in psychology, I concur with Eric on all points about speculating on people's health. Further, the diagnosis of a real disorder is not an excuse to abuse social norms nor a free pass to disrupt public or private spaces. People with these conditions are human beings who need to be treated with dignity and respect, but they also need to be held reasonably accountable for their actions. I also concur that events such as this demonstrate a need for active governance of the list. That said, I don't think that the correct response to people who clearly are having difficulty understanding the nature and purpose of a mailing list is simply to label them "troll" and hit the ban button. I would ask that whoever makes the decision about Paul (and anyone else for that matter) exercise a great deal of restraint and patience while at the same time protecting the integrity and purpose of the list. On 03/31/2014 07:01 AM, Erik Mitchell wrote: > I have a B.A. in Psychology from the U of M, and I've been living > with a diagnosis for 7 years. I think I know enough. I at least > know enough to not speculate on others' health matters in public > forum. > > Also, "manic depression" is a term which was retired from use in > 1980, if my quick google search found an accurate result. And if > you were to discuss a person with influenza or cancer, you wouldn't > put quotation marks around those conditions, as if to say "so > called." > > I'm not going to discuss this anymore in this setting. I don't > think this group or this list should continue on without some kind > of governance, as we run the risk of hurting people who may be in > a vulnerable condition. We shouldn't just bandy about this kind of > nonsense. I respectfully ask that we bring this thread to a close > and wait on the list administrator to weigh in on the matter. > > Thanks, > > Erik > > On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 1:10 AM, Mike Miller > wrote: >> Well, Erik, maybe you should learn more about it. Having a >> diagnosis doesn't mean you are the same as everyone else with >> that diagnosis. >> >> Mike >> >> >> >> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, Erik Mitchell wrote: >> >>> Mike I have been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I don't >>> appreciate you inference. I am able to control my behavior. >>> >>> Admin, please attend to my earlier request. >>> >>> Erik On Mar 30, 2014 8:35 PM, "Mike Miller" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Paul G-- >>>> >>>> Have you ever been diagnosed with "manic depression" or >>>> "bipolar disorder?" I'm just asking because sometimes people >>>> who have that kind of problem really mean the best and are >>>> trying to help, but they might not have as much money as they >>>> think they have. Sometimes they make big plans that they >>>> later regret -- like anyone, I suppose, but on a somewhat >>>> grander scale. >>>> >>>> Mike >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>>> >>>> Pardon me? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I hope you realize a few things: >>>>> >>>>> 1) I have no clue what you?re talking about. 2) I don?t >>>>> work without a deposit without referral 3) I run a >>>>> photography wire service. 4) It?s March 5) It?s Mad (see >>>>> #4) 6) I?ve been busier this month than any other year >>>>> before. 7) What the heck are you talking about? 8) I don?t >>>>> program systems. 9) 1-8 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mar 30, 2014, at 5:05 PM, paul g >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I was asking for the bottom of the barrel guy . MR. Ryan >>>>> Colman, never >>>>>> >>>>>> helped so now I pay. Direct Donation to Linux-Mint. You >>>>>> care about Mint ? I will give the cash to the so called >>>>>> 'bottom of the barrel guy' The money goes to: Ebenezer >>>>>> Enterprises >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>> >>>>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:39:24 -0500 From: >>>>>> tclug at freakzilla.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: >>>>>> Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hey you show me your $900 and I'll happily do stuff for >>>>>> MINT for a week. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, paul g wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I am buying a coder for Linux-Mint you got a problem? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ________________ >>>>>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:22:13 -0500 From: >>>>>>> chapinjeff at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What just happened here? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 3:41 PM, paul g >>>>>>> wrote: Maybe you are scared to >>>>>>> work on the Linux-Mint project. You are needed to weed >>>>>>> through any C--- files and make Linux Mint the best. >>>>>>> 900.00 a week but you work for MINT. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> PJ 952-406-1430 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ________________ >>>>>>> From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:13:34 -0500 Subject: Re: >>>>>>> [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Would you work for Linux-Mint? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ________________ >>>>>>> From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:05:39 -0500 Subject: Re: >>>>>>> [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would be able to provide transport. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ________________ >>>>>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 18:59:10 +0000 From: >>>>>>> woodbrian77 at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>>> Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm thinking about attending this C++ conference: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> cppcon.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> in Seattle this fall. If you are interested in >>>>>>> joining me on a road trip, let me know. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is anyone going to cppnow.org ? If I were more >>>>>>> organized, I'd have signed up for that, but it sold out >>>>>>> faster than ever. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And I remain interested in a local C++ meeting. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- Brian Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. >>>>>>> http://webEbenezer.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG >>>>>>> Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>>>>>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>>>>>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - -- >>>>>>> Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, >>>>>>> UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba >>>>>>> Club Senator, NISG, retired >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG >>>>>>> Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>>>>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG >>>>>> Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing >>>> List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing >> List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTOYBPAAoJELWzpBXk2k3wmv8H/00zaOnXjw2QhcFAFLJEU06W pBHmP54mVkuOx052UtVykNgPfVkbfQDOha8/1u+2TUrg26zlqgTzch0EPgTeQlnG i7ZUN7ebupAy+uy4pKE6gdvqlLWDhH/SeNjfYfswKgCSXyPCywLjYq05KUUmu/HY T6/R/qQq1+UKrGo3WCHjQdLJxckOLa0FRoweS6d8FD3pmFuXqaXIqMCofiI2KdJC ge8jNVQ+4UGkC77qY8QkQBuQ+4/eEeyxGfaQp9iEpkj9uhJjKqxRT1Z0btmm414c 5yT2hULr0Lgvf/ePxyW2Q8nB4FFYwrSjiX6+1ZhT2oRBj5Kwh+nF50cPQ3d8T+w= =tCId -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Mon Mar 31 10:08:56 2014 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 10:08:56 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: <5339804F.8050507@gmail.com> References: <5339804F.8050507@gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm glad to see more people have stepped in. I will yield, and for the time being I'm going to unsubscribe from the list. I hope to hear of better things to come. All the best, Erik On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 9:48 AM, David Wagle wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > As someone pursuing graduate studies in psychology, I concur with Eric > on all points about speculating on people's health. > > Further, the diagnosis of a real disorder is not an excuse to abuse > social norms nor a free pass to disrupt public or private spaces. > People with these conditions are human beings who need to be treated > with dignity and respect, but they also need to be held reasonably > accountable for their actions. > > I also concur that events such as this demonstrate a need for active > governance of the list. That said, I don't think that the correct > response to people who clearly are having difficulty understanding the > nature and purpose of a mailing list is simply to label them "troll" > and hit the ban button. > > I would ask that whoever makes the decision about Paul (and anyone > else for that matter) exercise a great deal of restraint and patience > while at the same time protecting the integrity and purpose of the list. > > > > On 03/31/2014 07:01 AM, Erik Mitchell wrote: >> I have a B.A. in Psychology from the U of M, and I've been living >> with a diagnosis for 7 years. I think I know enough. I at least >> know enough to not speculate on others' health matters in public >> forum. >> >> Also, "manic depression" is a term which was retired from use in >> 1980, if my quick google search found an accurate result. And if >> you were to discuss a person with influenza or cancer, you wouldn't >> put quotation marks around those conditions, as if to say "so >> called." >> >> I'm not going to discuss this anymore in this setting. I don't >> think this group or this list should continue on without some kind >> of governance, as we run the risk of hurting people who may be in >> a vulnerable condition. We shouldn't just bandy about this kind of >> nonsense. I respectfully ask that we bring this thread to a close >> and wait on the list administrator to weigh in on the matter. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Erik >> >> On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 1:10 AM, Mike Miller >> wrote: >>> Well, Erik, maybe you should learn more about it. Having a >>> diagnosis doesn't mean you are the same as everyone else with >>> that diagnosis. >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, Erik Mitchell wrote: >>> >>>> Mike I have been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I don't >>>> appreciate you inference. I am able to control my behavior. >>>> >>>> Admin, please attend to my earlier request. >>>> >>>> Erik On Mar 30, 2014 8:35 PM, "Mike Miller" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Paul G-- >>>>> >>>>> Have you ever been diagnosed with "manic depression" or >>>>> "bipolar disorder?" I'm just asking because sometimes people >>>>> who have that kind of problem really mean the best and are >>>>> trying to help, but they might not have as much money as they >>>>> think they have. Sometimes they make big plans that they >>>>> later regret -- like anyone, I suppose, but on a somewhat >>>>> grander scale. >>>>> >>>>> Mike >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Pardon me? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I hope you realize a few things: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1) I have no clue what you?re talking about. 2) I don?t >>>>>> work without a deposit without referral 3) I run a >>>>>> photography wire service. 4) It?s March 5) It?s Mad (see >>>>>> #4) 6) I?ve been busier this month than any other year >>>>>> before. 7) What the heck are you talking about? 8) I don?t >>>>>> program systems. 9) 1-8 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 30, 2014, at 5:05 PM, paul g >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I was asking for the bottom of the barrel guy . MR. Ryan >>>>>> Colman, never >>>>>>> >>>>>>> helped so now I pay. Direct Donation to Linux-Mint. You >>>>>>> care about Mint ? I will give the cash to the so called >>>>>>> 'bottom of the barrel guy' The money goes to: Ebenezer >>>>>>> Enterprises >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:39:24 -0500 From: >>>>>>> tclug at freakzilla.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: >>>>>>> Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hey you show me your $900 and I'll happily do stuff for >>>>>>> MINT for a week. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014, paul g wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am buying a coder for Linux-Mint you got a problem? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > ________________ >>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:22:13 -0500 From: >>>>>>>> chapinjeff at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What just happened here? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 3:41 PM, paul g >>>>>>>> wrote: Maybe you are scared to >>>>>>>> work on the Linux-Mint project. You are needed to weed >>>>>>>> through any C--- files and make Linux Mint the best. >>>>>>>> 900.00 a week but you work for MINT. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> PJ 952-406-1430 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > ________________ >>>>>>>> From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:13:34 -0500 Subject: Re: >>>>>>>> [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Would you work for Linux-Mint? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > ________________ >>>>>>>> From: pj.world at hotmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:05:39 -0500 Subject: Re: >>>>>>>> [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would be able to provide transport. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > ________________ >>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 18:59:10 +0000 From: >>>>>>>> woodbrian77 at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>>>> Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm thinking about attending this C++ conference: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> cppcon.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> in Seattle this fall. If you are interested in >>>>>>>> joining me on a road trip, let me know. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Is anyone going to cppnow.org ? If I were more >>>>>>>> organized, I'd have signed up for that, but it sold out >>>>>>>> faster than ever. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And I remain interested in a local C++ meeting. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- Brian Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. >>>>>>>> http://webEbenezer.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG >>>>>>>> Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>>>>>>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>>>>>>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > - -- >>>>>>>> Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, >>>>>>>> UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba >>>>>>>> Club Senator, NISG, retired >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG >>>>>>>> Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >>>>>>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG >>>>>>> Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing >>>>> List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing >>> List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> >> >> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTOYBPAAoJELWzpBXk2k3wmv8H/00zaOnXjw2QhcFAFLJEU06W > pBHmP54mVkuOx052UtVykNgPfVkbfQDOha8/1u+2TUrg26zlqgTzch0EPgTeQlnG > i7ZUN7ebupAy+uy4pKE6gdvqlLWDhH/SeNjfYfswKgCSXyPCywLjYq05KUUmu/HY > T6/R/qQq1+UKrGo3WCHjQdLJxckOLa0FRoweS6d8FD3pmFuXqaXIqMCofiI2KdJC > ge8jNVQ+4UGkC77qY8QkQBuQ+4/eEeyxGfaQp9iEpkj9uhJjKqxRT1Z0btmm414c > 5yT2hULr0Lgvf/ePxyW2Q8nB4FFYwrSjiX6+1ZhT2oRBj5Kwh+nF50cPQ3d8T+w= > =tCId > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Erik K. Mitchell erik.mitchell at gmail.com From erikerik at gmail.com Mon Mar 31 10:27:31 2014 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 10:27:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: <5339804F.8050507@gmail.com> References: <5339804F.8050507@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 9:48 AM, David Wagle wrote: > > I also concur that events such as this demonstrate a need for active > governance of the list. That said, I don't think that the correct > response to people who clearly are having difficulty understanding the > nature and purpose of a mailing list is simply to label them "troll" > and hit the ban button. > > I would ask that whoever makes the decision about Paul (and anyone > else for that matter) exercise a great deal of restraint and patience > while at the same time protecting the integrity and purpose of the list. > Agreed. Can we hear something from the current list admins? As has been mentioned by others in the past, we want to err on the side of inclusion rather than exclusion. That said, setting the mod bit on certain accounts is a fair and appropriate thing to do to help protect the integrity of the list. The downside of enabling moderation is that it requires somewhat regular involvement from the list administration staff, which for the last few years hasn't been present. My proposal to help out the current situation: - enact a list policy to place on moderation any list member who causes undue problems on the list - add one or more persons to the moderation staff of the list, who can accept or deny moderated messages as they come through -Erik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at real-time.com Mon Mar 31 10:34:19 2014 From: rick at real-time.com (Rick Tanner) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 10:34:19 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: <5339804F.8050507@gmail.com> Message-ID: <53398AFB.2030507@real-time.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 3/31/14 10:27 AM, Erik Anderson wrote: > > Agreed. Can we hear something from the current list admins? Response will be posted later this afternoon. - -- Rick Tanner | Phone : (952) 943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952) 943-8500 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEVAwUBUzmK4lwn8veVxBRBAQL9AggAuk3PNJeGLTD5kG8m5NIpg/ENhk3pFXPV 2JnWvOTfYKP9K2sKAhs9SxhYd0sh3si7wTtgRQHXJIzUqh7+4VVyBvwpOd8gctpZ orUn7BZv0+zxoxySStEHmY1J6vSfVgecET880Kt0k1JRcIZZB6j3Oj6RunFF2Wd4 u4rezBA9jZaD/kPSn20p2Z85OJ5YssiSEnjdQdDP9jot/w8/HN/BJGaBQw+iI2Ry oE5F929cSFDa9rU1101D3eERZIz9FOmBS9t63AfHJjcArHNFsSuBlQtPgmNWzHe1 90vfF3x2qBWjVuknH5TcrQSN59yR3gKQU458ygRiAV9pSiz/k51ECg== =h3cU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From erikerik at gmail.com Mon Mar 31 10:36:29 2014 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 10:36:29 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: <53398AFB.2030507@real-time.com> References: <5339804F.8050507@gmail.com> <53398AFB.2030507@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Rick Tanner wrote: > Response will be posted later this afternoon. OK. Thanks Rick. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Mar 31 10:42:27 2014 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 10:42:27 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: <5339804F.8050507@gmail.com> References: <5339804F.8050507@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 31 Mar 2014, David Wagle wrote: > People with these conditions are human beings who need to be treated > with dignity and respect [...] > I don't think that the correct response to people who clearly are having > difficulty understanding the nature and purpose of a mailing list is > simply to label them "troll" and hit the ban button. I thought it was somewhat worse than that. Anyway, my point is just that it might help to understand the nature of the problem. Sometimes a person who writes bothersome things might not be trying to annoy us. If a person says things that are not true, they aren't necessarily lying, and if someone offers you something that he can't supply, he wasn't necessarily trying to deceive you. So I think it helps to cool everyone down if we consider the possibility that this "paul g" is having some mental health problems and not just trying to ruin our list. Mike From chapinjeff at gmail.com Mon Mar 31 11:13:31 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 11:13:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: <5339804F.8050507@gmail.com> Message-ID: I think there has clearly been some communication issues, and some violations of 'netiquette', which I think are largely accepted by the other users of this list. I think that users are fine with those sorts of things, and are often willing to overlook mild issues, and assist others in learning what went wrong. Other people make similar violations of netiquette, and typically get a gentle reminder and we move on. The real issue is that despite repeated, and gentle assistance to fix those honest mistakes, there is no real evidence that Paul G is accepting the assistance -- and not only that, he often appears to get angry and go on the offensive -- which is the cause of the issues. I for one think that moderating his account, and assisting him in replying to the right place with relevant responses and getting him straightened out is the correct response. I think of it like mailing-list training wheels, intended to assist in learning, rather than a punishment. Jeff On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 10:42 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Mon, 31 Mar 2014, David Wagle wrote: > > People with these conditions are human beings who need to be treated with >> dignity and respect [...] >> > > I don't think that the correct response to people who clearly are having >> difficulty understanding the nature and purpose of a mailing list is simply >> to label them "troll" and hit the ban button. >> > > > I thought it was somewhat worse than that. > > Anyway, my point is just that it might help to understand the nature of > the problem. Sometimes a person who writes bothersome things might not be > trying to annoy us. If a person says things that are not true, they aren't > necessarily lying, and if someone offers you something that he can't > supply, he wasn't necessarily trying to deceive you. > > So I think it helps to cool everyone down if we consider the possibility > that this "paul g" is having some mental health problems and not just > trying to ruin our list. > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erikerik at gmail.com Mon Mar 31 11:15:44 2014 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 11:15:44 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ conference plans In-Reply-To: References: <5339804F.8050507@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Jeff Chapin wrote: > I for one think that moderating his account, and assisting him in replying > to the right place with relevant responses and getting him straightened out > is the correct response. I think of it like mailing-list training wheels, > intended to assist in learning, rather than a punishment. Well-stated, Jeff. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erikerik at gmail.com Mon Mar 31 11:21:10 2014 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 11:21:10 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Trusty (14.04 LTS) Message-ID: (let's move on to a more on-topic discussion) :) With the impending release in the next couple weeks of Ubuntu Trusty, the next LTS release, I thought I'd start playing around with the daily build isos to see how things are progressing, and with a specific goal of starting to work out what will need to change with our deployments to adapt to the new version. To do this, I've been using the pre-release Trusty vagrant box. If you are a linux admin and aren't already using vagrant for test/dev, I *highly* recommend checking it out. My process for testing things was roughly: (This is not meant to be a full start-to-finish guide to my workflow, but rather just a high-level view. If anyone would like more details, I'd be glad to provide them.) --- - Add trusty vagrant box: $ vagrant box add trusty64-2014-03-31 http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/vagrant/trusty/current/trusty-server-cloudimg-amd64-vagrant-disk1.box - Edit my default Vagrantfile to use the new box I added - fire up the new vagrant box $ vagrant up - get the vagrant ssh config for this box (for adding to my ~/.ssh/config) $ vagrant ssh-config - add the output of the above command to ~/.ssh/config - add "default" (the name of my vagrant box) to my ansible inventory, then run the ansible playbook --- 90% of my ansible tasks applied cleanly. The only bits that failed were a couple plays in which I'm manually enabling some Ubuntu Precise repos, which obviously will fail on this new version. The other bit that failed was the installation of an updated kernel (which we needed for full docker support). That play failed for similar reasons as the repo additions did. As it turns out, the stock kernel provided with Trusty is recent enough to not need to be updated anyway. I branched my ansible repo and fixed the above issues, and then everything applied cleanly. This was great news, and kudos to Ubuntu for not changing things so drastically between 12.04 and 14.04. My next step will be actually deploying our software on Trusty and running through some tests to make sure things operate as expected. Has anyone else tried kicking Trusty's tires yet? If so, what have your experiences been? -Erik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmore at starmind.org Mon Mar 31 11:23:39 2014 From: jmore at starmind.org (Josh More) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 11:23:39 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Trusty (14.04 LTS) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thinking about doing it this week, actually. (Off work for medical stuff.) Is an in-place upgrade to stable likely to work once it's officially released? -Josh Please pardon the brevity of this electronic missive. It originated from a handheld computing device which has less than ideal data input capabilites. Thank you for understanding. On Mar 31, 2014 11:21 AM, "Erik Anderson" wrote: > (let's move on to a more on-topic discussion) :) > > With the impending release in the next couple weeks of Ubuntu Trusty, the > next LTS release, I thought I'd start playing around with the daily build > isos to see how things are progressing, and with a specific goal of > starting to work out what will need to change with our deployments to adapt > to the new version. > > To do this, I've been using the pre-release Trusty vagrant box. If you are > a linux admin and aren't already using vagrant for test/dev, I *highly* > recommend checking it out. > > My process for testing things was roughly: > > (This is not meant to be a full start-to-finish guide to my workflow, but > rather just a high-level view. If anyone would like more details, I'd be > glad to provide them.) > > --- > - Add trusty vagrant box: > > $ vagrant box add trusty64-2014-03-31 > http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/vagrant/trusty/current/trusty-server-cloudimg-amd64-vagrant-disk1.box > > - Edit my default Vagrantfile to use the new box I added > > - fire up the new vagrant box > > $ vagrant up > > - get the vagrant ssh config for this box (for adding to my ~/.ssh/config) > > $ vagrant ssh-config > > - add the output of the above command to ~/.ssh/config > > - add "default" (the name of my vagrant box) to my ansible inventory, then > run the ansible playbook > --- > > 90% of my ansible tasks applied cleanly. The only bits that failed were a > couple plays in which I'm manually enabling some Ubuntu Precise repos, > which obviously will fail on this new version. The other bit that failed > was the installation of an updated kernel (which we needed for full docker > support). That play failed for similar reasons as the repo additions did. > As it turns out, the stock kernel provided with Trusty is recent enough to > not need to be updated anyway. > > I branched my ansible repo and fixed the above issues, and then everything > applied cleanly. This was great news, and kudos to Ubuntu for not changing > things so drastically between 12.04 and 14.04. My next step will be > actually deploying our software on Trusty and running through some tests to > make sure things operate as expected. > > Has anyone else tried kicking Trusty's tires yet? If so, what have your > experiences been? > > -Erik > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erikerik at gmail.com Mon Mar 31 11:34:57 2014 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 11:34:57 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Trusty (14.04 LTS) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Josh More wrote: > Is an in-place upgrade to stable likely to work once it's officially > released? Honestly, I'm not sure. Our deployment methodology is strictly build-it-from-the-ground-up, so I haven't tried. Wouldn't be difficult to test, though, I suppose. I have a 12.04 ubuntu desktop machine in Virtualbox. I could easily take a snapshot of that and test out an upgrade to Trusty. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at real-time.com Mon Mar 31 13:56:07 2014 From: rick at real-time.com (Rick Tanner) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 13:56:07 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Email list moderation inquiry Message-ID: <5339BA47.1050900@real-time.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 As requested, I'm speaking here as one of the mailing list administrators -- and *NOT* moderator (please keep reading..) or not as a subscriber. For the most recent events from March-30-2014, since it seemed a flamewar was well on it's way, I stepped forward and placed the moderation setting on a particular subscriber. Next topic. The TCLUG-list has no content or subscriber moderators. Here's why: Anytime there has been an issue or problem, the list has moderated itself. Other subscribers speak up on what they want to see changed and make suggestions for such change. Others chime in and a general consensus is met. The concept of netiquette prevails. Do you, as list subscribers, want a person or people in charge of moderating content? If so, then the list needs to agree on what is acceptable and not acceptable to post in the list and a course of action to take when the unacceptable happens. And another thing to keep in mind, any policy creation will need to retroactively apply to all subscribers on the list now. How well is that going to be received? If this should proceed, then how are moderators chosen? I.e., nomination and voting or strictly volunteer or some other method? How many are allowed? And the "other duties" such as: (to name a few) * How are tasks tracked between moderators to make sure one does not undo the work of the others? * Is there a need for any kind of audit trail for moderators and their moderation actions? * Is there a chain of command between moderators? * How are disagreements and policy discussion between moderators handled? * What course of actions can a subscriber take dispute a moderation ruling? * How is such a dispute handled? So, as a list administrator, what do we do? As list administrators, we make sure the list is available, as in up & running. Email posts come in, they get distributed to subscribers and a copy is made available in the mailing list archives. We reject the 20 to 30 spam messages per day that try to make it to the list and in very rare cases manually unsubscribe or subscribe someone for numerous reasons per their request. We are either invisible, or in trouble. ;-) - -- Rick Tanner | Phone : (952) 943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952) 943-8500 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEVAwUBUzm6QVwn8veVxBRBAQKvcAf/VDjS6l8zj11oOSYY/hLzAtVotU7+jY5e KECnTgW2Np2zsw5a9A9gEbqkQjNbeW9+5TTJs97Ek1I4wHRQtDao25ivbb6ETYVW 7f4qIdmL7e6yRU7WahhwTB8vkpchrx2DulWSc6jR+YKWq6rH5a6rvhjwZaMsWxI2 WoiLXN594e3NtOg/4T9oSN9YIgl9fRZ0aEXd1k/ttALKrdW18fH+1Qqi+LvWPcKM CRTaGie7l+pJvMbpQ79yjIaz2bCjmdikhykB7It4Pe8c4+7MJWbOt59Mw0xRaDRa ps0I3eg4Ju0FyB4GD1Fw6qNC/kztJ2YQTsRX0xL+bd7lTv88lrDW1Q== =2AlU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Mar 31 14:36:45 2014 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 14:36:45 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Email list moderation inquiry In-Reply-To: <5339BA47.1050900@real-time.com> References: <5339BA47.1050900@real-time.com> Message-ID: Here's something I've done on other lists with a person who annoys a lot of other readers: (1) Allow that person to read the list but not write to it (I'm calling that person "former subscriber" below). I think we have a list archive, and that woud be good enough if it is updated quickly. I guess it is quite good: http://archives.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/ (2) Identify someone (called the intermediary) on the list who is willing to work with the former subscriber. The intermediary would forward appropriate messages to the list for the former subscriber. That puts a buffer between the former subscriber and the list, but it doesn't overburden the administrator with a moderator responsibility. Intermediaries do this willingly and are free to resign if they want to. If the intermediary has good answers to some of the easier questions that might be unlikely to generate a useful discussion, then he or she might just answer the question without posting it. Mike On Mon, 31 Mar 2014, Rick Tanner wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > As requested, I'm speaking here as one of the mailing list > administrators -- and *NOT* moderator (please keep reading..) or not > as a subscriber. > > > For the most recent events from March-30-2014, since it seemed a > flamewar was well on it's way, I stepped forward and placed the > moderation setting on a particular subscriber. > > Next topic. > > The TCLUG-list has no content or subscriber moderators. > > Here's why: > > Anytime there has been an issue or problem, the list has moderated > itself. > > Other subscribers speak up on what they want to see changed and make > suggestions for such change. Others chime in and a general consensus > is met. The concept of netiquette prevails. > > Do you, as list subscribers, want a person or people in charge of > moderating content? > > If so, then the list needs to agree on what is acceptable and not > acceptable to post in the list and a course of action to take when the > unacceptable happens. And another thing to keep in mind, any policy > creation will need to retroactively apply to all subscribers on the > list now. How well is that going to be received? > > If this should proceed, then how are moderators chosen? > I.e., nomination and voting or strictly volunteer or some other > method? How many are allowed? > > And the "other duties" such as: (to name a few) > > * How are tasks tracked between moderators to make sure one does not > undo the work of the others? > * Is there a need for any kind of audit trail for moderators and > their moderation actions? > * Is there a chain of command between moderators? > * How are disagreements and policy discussion between moderators > handled? > * What course of actions can a subscriber take dispute a moderation > ruling? > * How is such a dispute handled? > > > > > > > > So, as a list administrator, what do we do? > > As list administrators, we make sure the list is available, as in up & > running. Email posts come in, they get distributed to subscribers and > a copy is made available in the mailing list archives. We reject the > 20 to 30 spam messages per day that try to make it to the list and in > very rare cases manually unsubscribe or subscribe someone for numerous > reasons per their request. We are either invisible, or in trouble. ;-) > > > > - -- > Rick Tanner | Phone : (952) 943-8700 > http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952) 943-8500 > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEVAwUBUzm6QVwn8veVxBRBAQKvcAf/VDjS6l8zj11oOSYY/hLzAtVotU7+jY5e > KECnTgW2Np2zsw5a9A9gEbqkQjNbeW9+5TTJs97Ek1I4wHRQtDao25ivbb6ETYVW > 7f4qIdmL7e6yRU7WahhwTB8vkpchrx2DulWSc6jR+YKWq6rH5a6rvhjwZaMsWxI2 > WoiLXN594e3NtOg/4T9oSN9YIgl9fRZ0aEXd1k/ttALKrdW18fH+1Qqi+LvWPcKM > CRTaGie7l+pJvMbpQ79yjIaz2bCjmdikhykB7It4Pe8c4+7MJWbOt59Mw0xRaDRa > ps0I3eg4Ju0FyB4GD1Fw6qNC/kztJ2YQTsRX0xL+bd7lTv88lrDW1Q== > =2AlU > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From rick at real-time.com Mon Mar 31 15:15:56 2014 From: rick at real-time.com (Rick Tanner) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:15:56 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Email list moderation inquiry In-Reply-To: References: <5339BA47.1050900@real-time.com> Message-ID: <5339CCFC.3010508@real-time.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 3/31/14 2:36 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > I think we have a list archive, and that woud be good enough if it > is updated quickly. I guess it is quite good: > > http://archives.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/ The mailing list archive updates automatically once a mail message has been received and then sent out to subscribers. - -- Rick Tanner | Phone : (952) 943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952) 943-8500 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEVAwUBUznM9Fwn8veVxBRBAQIXNAgAnjP22yHvSuwFXpnIMa/a+YAWuTaG5obe BgOR3IGBRCpowIkTQBlzEaZsUBIsttq1n8+PMDiSLUsGGG5MX9PjjXnbzR8yDlM/ XepMp57RacF/QcHizzKQ/qXAuEhmrD1n03T1U9EKkPMYg2GmCLmTpJbjQej9kQAP qw8FyvemxTswuWwUvxCW4w10OHxsaDtIVcpWB5MElC952zlboEBTMEbaofIgRb0R sx/X+cmpvUHntv77IC8BTf+Z5N6GHXH2xzsQprKUlrEQYBHNpLoR+nyxYw+1biAX j5wvyAF2uZ6xcTDppWmaa6sS6xlqPpBSjjFf6wtHm9gQRe7Si5LCXQ== =/lCc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From pj.world at hotmail.com Mon Mar 31 15:05:31 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:05:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? In-Reply-To: References: , , , , Message-ID: I have done some more reading mostly on the Ubuntu PowerPC and guides as far as setup. It looks like booting from flash drive requires some steps. When I was in front of the Power Book 2 days ago. I tried holding down the c key during boot with the original osx driver disk in the cd-drive it did not load the cd and continued to load up to the splash screen. Either way it looks like I have a bunch more reading to do. Thanks, From: stuporglue at gmail.com Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 09:47:15 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? You don't load a bios screen on a mac. However, to select your boot source, you hold down the command key when you power it on. After the beep you'll get a selection of boot locations that the computer can see at that time. Correct. Or, if you know you want to boot from the CD, just hold the "c" key (or maybe it's option-c) before the chime. Once you have linux installed, you'll get the same thing. I think you'll need to install rEFIt or some other EFI boot manager as well. Not for PowerPC macs, EFI didn't pop up on Macs until they switched to Intel chips. PowerPC Macs used Open Firmware, but you wouldn't want to get into Open Firmware like you would the Bios. The Mac's UI and magic key combos will be enough. You can always hold down option during boot to choose which device to boot from, and there are a bunch of other combos that are useful for this or that: http://davespicks.com/writing/programming/mackeys.html#boot --Michael Moore _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Mon Mar 31 15:37:58 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:37:58 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <050F8AEC-3999-4040-BF28-809118D98DB3@me.com> Paul, It should be as simple as pressing the ?option? key when you hear the chimes. You can also load the OS and go to Preferences and choose Startup Disk (assuming OS X is installed) and select your Flash device. Also if none of this is working zapping the parameter RAM will do some good. Press, and hold: Command, Option, P and R and let it cycle through a series of startup chimes without letting go. I usually do this 10 times to make sure it?s cleared out. This was a common tip for the PPC machines from Apple. ? Ryan On Mar 31, 2014, at 3:05 PM, paul g wrote: > I have done some more reading mostly on the Ubuntu PowerPC and guides as far as setup. It looks like booting from flash drive requires some steps. When I was in front of the Power Book 2 days ago. I tried holding down the c key during boot with the original osx driver disk in the cd-drive it did not load the cd and continued to load up to the splash screen. Either way it looks like I have a bunch more reading to do. > > Thanks, > > From: stuporglue at gmail.com > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 09:47:15 -0500 > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? > > You don't load a bios screen on a mac. However, to select your boot source, you hold down the command key when you power it on. After the beep you'll get a selection of boot locations that the computer can see at that time. > > Correct. Or, if you know you want to boot from the CD, just hold the "c" key (or maybe it's option-c) before the chime. > > > Once you have linux installed, you'll get the same thing. I think you'll need to install rEFIt or some other EFI boot manager as well. > > Not for PowerPC macs, EFI didn't pop up on Macs until they switched to Intel chips. > > PowerPC Macs used Open Firmware, but you wouldn't want to get into Open Firmware like you would the Bios. The Mac's UI and magic key combos will be enough. You can always hold down option during boot to choose which device to boot from, and there are a bunch of other combos that are useful for this or that: > > http://davespicks.com/writing/programming/mackeys.html#boot > > -- > Michael Moore > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Mon Mar 31 16:59:50 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 16:59:50 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? In-Reply-To: <050F8AEC-3999-4040-BF28-809118D98DB3@me.com> References: , , , , , , <050F8AEC-3999-4040-BF28-809118D98DB3@me.com> Message-ID: Thanks Ryan, The deal here with this Power Book G4 is I am trying to help out a friend that knows some lesser about computers. run something newer than OSX Tiger. At this point Firefox is stuck at 3.5--- and flash is outdated etc. So without me knowing more about programming or whatever. I thought the best anwser I could come up with for an operating system for them would be use Ubuntu on the computer. It looks to me that in order to get the correct Ubuntu edition for the MAC is specifically a PowerPC download not just a standard .iso download, will work. Thanks for the tips in the following post 'zapping parameter Ram' is important obviously. Thanks, From: ryanjcole at me.com Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:37:58 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? Paul, It should be as simple as pressing the ?option? key when you hear the chimes. You can also load the OS and go to Preferences and choose Startup Disk (assuming OS X is installed) and select your Flash device. Also if none of this is working zapping the parameter RAM will do some good. Press, and hold: Command, Option, P and R and let it cycle through a series of startup chimes without letting go. I usually do this 10 times to make sure it?s cleared out. This was a common tip for the PPC machines from Apple. ?Ryan On Mar 31, 2014, at 3:05 PM, paul g wrote:I have done some more reading mostly on the Ubuntu PowerPC and guides as far as setup. It looks like booting from flash drive requires some steps. When I was in front of the Power Book 2 days ago. I tried holding down the c key during boot with the original osx driver disk in the cd-drive it did not load the cd and continued to load up to the splash screen. Either way it looks like I have a bunch more reading to do. Thanks, From: stuporglue at gmail.com Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 09:47:15 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? You don't load a bios screen on a mac. However, to select your boot source, you hold down the command key when you power it on. After the beep you'll get a selection of boot locations that the computer can see at that time. Correct. Or, if you know you want to boot from the CD, just hold the "c" key (or maybe it's option-c) before the chime. Once you have linux installed, you'll get the same thing. I think you'll need to install rEFIt or some other EFI boot manager as well. Not for PowerPC macs, EFI didn't pop up on Macs until they switched to Intel chips. PowerPC Macs used Open Firmware, but you wouldn't want to get into Open Firmware like you would the Bios. The Mac's UI and magic key combos will be enough. You can always hold down option during boot to choose which device to boot from, and there are a bunch of other combos that are useful for this or that: http://davespicks.com/writing/programming/mackeys.html#boot --Michael Moore _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list_______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Mon Mar 31 17:13:45 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 17:13:45 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? In-Reply-To: References: <050F8AEC-3999-4040-BF28-809118D98DB3@me.com> Message-ID: Paul, > It looks to me that in order to get the correct Ubuntu edition for the MAC is specifically a PowerPC download not just a standard .iso download, will work. That is correct - each build of an OS is targeted at a particular architecture. i386 = 32-bit Intel-style CPUs (including AMD) AMD64 = 64-bit Intel-style CPUs (including AMD) Sparc = Sparc-based systems etc. etc. etc. I don?t know if you would want a PPC or MacPPC image. There are three different PPC processors in history: 1) IBM 2) Motorola 3) Apple (which is either IBM or Motorola depending on the model Macintosh). Further reading (historical information, mainly): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM_alliance On Mar 31, 2014, at 4:59 PM, paul g wrote: > Thanks Ryan, > > The deal here with this Power Book G4 is I am trying to help out a friend that knows some lesser about computers. run something newer than OSX Tiger. At this point Firefox is stuck at 3.5--- and flash is outdated etc. So without me knowing more about programming or whatever. I thought the best anwser I could come up with for an operating system for them would be use Ubuntu on the computer. It looks to me that in order to get the correct Ubuntu edition for the MAC is specifically a PowerPC download not just a standard .iso download, will work. > > Thanks for the tips in the following post 'zapping parameter Ram' is important obviously. > > Thanks, > > From: ryanjcole at me.com > Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:37:58 -0500 > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? > > Paul, > > It should be as simple as pressing the ?option? key when you hear the chimes. > > You can also load the OS and go to Preferences and choose Startup Disk (assuming OS X is installed) and select your Flash device. > > Also if none of this is working zapping the parameter RAM will do some good. Press, and hold: Command, Option, P and R and let it cycle through a series of startup chimes without letting go. I usually do this 10 times to make sure it?s cleared out. This was a common tip for the PPC machines from Apple. > > ? > Ryan > > > On Mar 31, 2014, at 3:05 PM, paul g wrote: > > I have done some more reading mostly on the Ubuntu PowerPC and guides as far as setup. It looks like booting from flash drive requires some steps. When I was in front of the Power Book 2 days ago. I tried holding down the c key during boot with the original osx driver disk in the cd-drive it did not load the cd and continued to load up to the splash screen. Either way it looks like I have a bunch more reading to do. > > Thanks, > > From: stuporglue at gmail.com > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 09:47:15 -0500 > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? > > You don't load a bios screen on a mac. However, to select your boot source, you hold down the command key when you power it on. After the beep you'll get a selection of boot locations that the computer can see at that time. > > Correct. Or, if you know you want to boot from the CD, just hold the "c" key (or maybe it's option-c) before the chime. > > > Once you have linux installed, you'll get the same thing. I think you'll need to install rEFIt or some other EFI boot manager as well. > > Not for PowerPC macs, EFI didn't pop up on Macs until they switched to Intel chips. > > PowerPC Macs used Open Firmware, but you wouldn't want to get into Open Firmware like you would the Bios. The Mac's UI and magic key combos will be enough. You can always hold down option during boot to choose which device to boot from, and there are a bunch of other combos that are useful for this or that: > > http://davespicks.com/writing/programming/mackeys.html#boot > > -- > Michael Moore > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.wagle at gmail.com Mon Mar 31 17:20:29 2014 From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 17:20:29 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? In-Reply-To: References: <050F8AEC-3999-4040-BF28-809118D98DB3@me.com> Message-ID: Yes - this is actually a very key bit of information that is often missed by people who only work with single chip types. On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > Paul, > > It looks to me that in order to get the correct Ubuntu edition for the > MAC is specifically a PowerPC download not just a standard .iso download, > will work. > > > That is correct - each build of an OS is targeted at a particular > architecture. > i386 = 32-bit Intel-style CPUs (including AMD) > AMD64 = 64-bit Intel-style CPUs (including AMD) > Sparc = Sparc-based systems > etc. etc. etc. > > I don't know if you would want a PPC or MacPPC image. There are three > different PPC processors in history: > 1) IBM > 2) Motorola > 3) Apple (which is either IBM or Motorola depending on the model > Macintosh). > > Further reading (historical information, mainly): > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM_alliance > > > On Mar 31, 2014, at 4:59 PM, paul g wrote: > > Thanks Ryan, > > The deal here with this Power Book G4 is I am trying to help out a friend > that knows some lesser about computers. run something newer than OSX Tiger. > At this point Firefox is stuck at 3.5--- and flash is outdated etc. So > without me knowing more about programming or whatever. I thought the best > anwser I could come up with for an operating system for them would be use > Ubuntu on the computer. It looks to me that in order to get the correct > Ubuntu edition for the MAC is specifically a PowerPC download not just a > standard .iso download, will work. > > Thanks for the tips in the following post 'zapping parameter Ram' is > important obviously. > > Thanks, > > ------------------------------ > From: ryanjcole at me.com > Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:37:58 -0500 > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? > > Paul, > > It should be as simple as pressing the "option" key when you hear the > chimes. > > You can also load the OS and go to Preferences and choose Startup Disk > (assuming OS X is installed) and select your Flash device. > > Also if none of this is working zapping the parameter RAM will do some > good. Press, and hold: Command, Option, P and R and let it cycle through a > series of startup chimes without letting go. I usually do this 10 times to > make sure it's cleared out. This was a common tip for the PPC machines from > Apple. > > -- > Ryan > > > On Mar 31, 2014, at 3:05 PM, paul g wrote: > > I have done some more reading mostly on the Ubuntu PowerPC and guides as > far as setup. It looks like booting from flash drive requires some steps. > When I was in front of the Power Book 2 days ago. I tried holding down the > c key during boot with the original osx driver disk in the cd-drive it did > not load the cd and continued to load up to the splash screen. Either way > it looks like I have a bunch more reading to do. > > Thanks, > > ------------------------------ > From: stuporglue at gmail.com > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 09:47:15 -0500 > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? > > You don't load a bios screen on a mac. However, to select your boot > source, you hold down the command key when you power it on. After the beep > you'll get a selection of boot locations that the computer can see at that > time. > > > Correct. Or, if you know you want to boot from the CD, just hold the "c" > key (or maybe it's option-c) before the chime. > > > > Once you have linux installed, you'll get the same thing. I think you'll > need to install rEFIt or some other EFI boot manager as well. > > > Not for PowerPC macs, EFI didn't pop up on Macs until they switched to > Intel chips. > > PowerPC Macs used Open Firmware, but you wouldn't want to get into Open > Firmware like you would the Bios. The Mac's UI and magic key combos will be > enough. You can always hold down option during boot to choose which device > to boot from, and there are a bunch of other combos that are useful for > this or that: > > http://davespicks.com/writing/programming/mackeys.html#boot > > -- > Michael Moore > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Mon Mar 31 17:25:40 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 17:25:40 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? In-Reply-To: References: <050F8AEC-3999-4040-BF28-809118D98DB3@me.com> Message-ID: The biggest thing to know is that ia64 is NOT the normal Intel 64-bit CPU. I?ve made that mistake too many times. This is the FreeBSD list of images (the only one I have bookmarked): ISO-IMAGES-amd64 // Intel/AMD/standard 64-bit architecture ISO-IMAGES-i386 // Intel/AMD 32-bit architecture ISO-IMAGES-ia64 // Itanium 64-bit ISO-IMAGES-pc98 // I know nothing about this but found this: http://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/48919/pc-98 ISO-IMAGES-powerpc // This is what you want ISO-IMAGES-powerpc64 // This is most likely not what you want ISO-IMAGES-sparc64 // SPARC - a Sun product: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPARC On Mar 31, 2014, at 5:20 PM, David Wagle wrote: > Yes - this is actually a very key bit of information that is often missed by people who only work with single chip types. > > > On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > Paul, > >> It looks to me that in order to get the correct Ubuntu edition for the MAC is specifically a PowerPC download not just a standard .iso download, will work. > > > That is correct - each build of an OS is targeted at a particular architecture. > i386 = 32-bit Intel-style CPUs (including AMD) > AMD64 = 64-bit Intel-style CPUs (including AMD) > Sparc = Sparc-based systems > etc. etc. etc. > > I don?t know if you would want a PPC or MacPPC image. There are three different PPC processors in history: > 1) IBM > 2) Motorola > 3) Apple (which is either IBM or Motorola depending on the model Macintosh). > > Further reading (historical information, mainly): > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM_alliance > > > On Mar 31, 2014, at 4:59 PM, paul g wrote: > >> Thanks Ryan, >> >> The deal here with this Power Book G4 is I am trying to help out a friend that knows some lesser about computers. run something newer than OSX Tiger. At this point Firefox is stuck at 3.5--- and flash is outdated etc. So without me knowing more about programming or whatever. I thought the best anwser I could come up with for an operating system for them would be use Ubuntu on the computer. It looks to me that in order to get the correct Ubuntu edition for the MAC is specifically a PowerPC download not just a standard .iso download, will work. >> >> Thanks for the tips in the following post 'zapping parameter Ram' is important obviously. >> >> Thanks, >> >> From: ryanjcole at me.com >> Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:37:58 -0500 >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? >> >> Paul, >> >> It should be as simple as pressing the ?option? key when you hear the chimes. >> >> You can also load the OS and go to Preferences and choose Startup Disk (assuming OS X is installed) and select your Flash device. >> >> Also if none of this is working zapping the parameter RAM will do some good. Press, and hold: Command, Option, P and R and let it cycle through a series of startup chimes without letting go. I usually do this 10 times to make sure it?s cleared out. This was a common tip for the PPC machines from Apple. >> >> ? >> Ryan >> >> >> On Mar 31, 2014, at 3:05 PM, paul g wrote: >> >> I have done some more reading mostly on the Ubuntu PowerPC and guides as far as setup. It looks like booting from flash drive requires some steps. When I was in front of the Power Book 2 days ago. I tried holding down the c key during boot with the original osx driver disk in the cd-drive it did not load the cd and continued to load up to the splash screen. Either way it looks like I have a bunch more reading to do. >> >> Thanks, >> >> From: stuporglue at gmail.com >> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 09:47:15 -0500 >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? >> >> You don't load a bios screen on a mac. However, to select your boot source, you hold down the command key when you power it on. After the beep you'll get a selection of boot locations that the computer can see at that time. >> >> Correct. Or, if you know you want to boot from the CD, just hold the "c" key (or maybe it's option-c) before the chime. >> >> >> Once you have linux installed, you'll get the same thing. I think you'll need to install rEFIt or some other EFI boot manager as well. >> >> Not for PowerPC macs, EFI didn't pop up on Macs until they switched to Intel chips. >> >> PowerPC Macs used Open Firmware, but you wouldn't want to get into Open Firmware like you would the Bios. The Mac's UI and magic key combos will be enough. You can always hold down option during boot to choose which device to boot from, and there are a bunch of other combos that are useful for this or that: >> >> http://davespicks.com/writing/programming/mackeys.html#boot >> >> -- >> Michael Moore >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Mon Mar 31 17:25:57 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 17:25:57 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , <050F8AEC-3999-4040-BF28-809118D98DB3@me.com>, , , Message-ID: I will do more reading on the situation I really really wish the computer was at my location now but unfortunately it is not. Would it be out of place to ask you how I would know to choose either PPC or MacPPC image? I will continue to do more reading this evening Thanks, Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 17:20:29 -0500 From: david.wagle at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? Yes - this is actually a very key bit of information that is often missed by people who only work with single chip types. On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: Paul, It looks to me that in order to get the correct Ubuntu edition for the MAC is specifically a PowerPC download not just a standard .iso download, will work. That is correct - each build of an OS is targeted at a particular architecture.i386 = 32-bit Intel-style CPUs (including AMD)AMD64 = 64-bit Intel-style CPUs (including AMD)Sparc = Sparc-based systems etc. etc. etc. I don?t know if you would want a PPC or MacPPC image. There are three different PPC processors in history:1) IBM 2) Motorola3) Apple (which is either IBM or Motorola depending on the model Macintosh). Further reading (historical information, mainly): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM_alliance On Mar 31, 2014, at 4:59 PM, paul g wrote: Thanks Ryan, The deal here with this Power Book G4 is I am trying to help out a friend that knows some lesser about computers. run something newer than OSX Tiger. At this point Firefox is stuck at 3.5--- and flash is outdated etc. So without me knowing more about programming or whatever. I thought the best anwser I could come up with for an operating system for them would be use Ubuntu on the computer. It looks to me that in order to get the correct Ubuntu edition for the MAC is specifically a PowerPC download not just a standard .iso download, will work. Thanks for the tips in the following post 'zapping parameter Ram' is important obviously. Thanks, From: ryanjcole at me.com Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:37:58 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? Paul, It should be as simple as pressing the ?option? key when you hear the chimes. You can also load the OS and go to Preferences and choose Startup Disk (assuming OS X is installed) and select your Flash device. Also if none of this is working zapping the parameter RAM will do some good. Press, and hold: Command, Option, P and R and let it cycle through a series of startup chimes without letting go. I usually do this 10 times to make sure it?s cleared out. This was a common tip for the PPC machines from Apple. ?Ryan On Mar 31, 2014, at 3:05 PM, paul g wrote: I have done some more reading mostly on the Ubuntu PowerPC and guides as far as setup. It looks like booting from flash drive requires some steps. When I was in front of the Power Book 2 days ago. I tried holding down the c key during boot with the original osx driver disk in the cd-drive it did not load the cd and continued to load up to the splash screen. Either way it looks like I have a bunch more reading to do. Thanks, From: stuporglue at gmail.com Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 09:47:15 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? You don't load a bios screen on a mac. However, to select your boot source, you hold down the command key when you power it on. After the beep you'll get a selection of boot locations that the computer can see at that time. Correct. Or, if you know you want to boot from the CD, just hold the "c" key (or maybe it's option-c) before the chime. Once you have linux installed, you'll get the same thing. I think you'll need to install rEFIt or some other EFI boot manager as well. Not for PowerPC macs, EFI didn't pop up on Macs until they switched to Intel chips. PowerPC Macs used Open Firmware, but you wouldn't want to get into Open Firmware like you would the Bios. The Mac's UI and magic key combos will be enough. You can always hold down option during boot to choose which device to boot from, and there are a bunch of other combos that are useful for this or that: http://davespicks.com/writing/programming/mackeys.html#boot --Michael Moore _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Mon Mar 31 17:31:58 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 17:31:58 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? In-Reply-To: References: <050F8AEC-3999-4040-BF28-809118D98DB3@me.com> Message-ID: <715D8EDF-A5E4-4575-A97C-FAA6D1C8F5D5@me.com> I would think that there?s just a PPC image listed for Ubuntu. I?m so far removed from the PPC world I couldn?t tell you anything with certainty. On Mar 31, 2014, at 5:25 PM, paul g wrote: > I will do more reading on the situation I really really wish the computer was at my location now but unfortunately it is not. > > Would it be out of place to ask you how I would know to choose either PPC or MacPPC image? > > I will continue to do more reading this evening > > Thanks, > > Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 17:20:29 -0500 > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? > > Yes - this is actually a very key bit of information that is often missed by people who only work with single chip types. > > > On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > Paul, > > It looks to me that in order to get the correct Ubuntu edition for the MAC is specifically a PowerPC download not just a standard .iso download, will work. > > That is correct - each build of an OS is targeted at a particular architecture. > i386 = 32-bit Intel-style CPUs (including AMD) > AMD64 = 64-bit Intel-style CPUs (including AMD) > Sparc = Sparc-based systems > etc. etc. etc. > > I don?t know if you would want a PPC or MacPPC image. There are three different PPC processors in history: > 1) IBM > 2) Motorola > 3) Apple (which is either IBM or Motorola depending on the model Macintosh). > > Further reading (historical information, mainly): > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM_alliance > > > On Mar 31, 2014, at 4:59 PM, paul g wrote: > > Thanks Ryan, > > The deal here with this Power Book G4 is I am trying to help out a friend that knows some lesser about computers. run something newer than OSX Tiger. At this point Firefox is stuck at 3.5--- and flash is outdated etc. So without me knowing more about programming or whatever. I thought the best anwser I could come up with for an operating system for them would be use Ubuntu on the computer. It looks to me that in order to get the correct Ubuntu edition for the MAC is specifically a PowerPC download not just a standard .iso download, will work. > > Thanks for the tips in the following post 'zapping parameter Ram' is important obviously. > > Thanks, > > From: ryanjcole at me.com > Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:37:58 -0500 > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? > > Paul, > > It should be as simple as pressing the ?option? key when you hear the chimes. > > You can also load the OS and go to Preferences and choose Startup Disk (assuming OS X is installed) and select your Flash device. > > Also if none of this is working zapping the parameter RAM will do some good. Press, and hold: Command, Option, P and R and let it cycle through a series of startup chimes without letting go. I usually do this 10 times to make sure it?s cleared out. This was a common tip for the PPC machines from Apple. > > ? > Ryan > > > On Mar 31, 2014, at 3:05 PM, paul g wrote: > > I have done some more reading mostly on the Ubuntu PowerPC and guides as far as setup. It looks like booting from flash drive requires some steps. When I was in front of the Power Book 2 days ago. I tried holding down the c key during boot with the original osx driver disk in the cd-drive it did not load the cd and continued to load up to the splash screen. Either way it looks like I have a bunch more reading to do. > > Thanks, > > From: stuporglue at gmail.com > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 09:47:15 -0500 > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? > > You don't load a bios screen on a mac. However, to select your boot source, you hold down the command key when you power it on. After the beep you'll get a selection of boot locations that the computer can see at that time. > > Correct. Or, if you know you want to boot from the CD, just hold the "c" key (or maybe it's option-c) before the chime. > > > Once you have linux installed, you'll get the same thing. I think you'll need to install rEFIt or some other EFI boot manager as well. > > Not for PowerPC macs, EFI didn't pop up on Macs until they switched to Intel chips. > > PowerPC Macs used Open Firmware, but you wouldn't want to get into Open Firmware like you would the Bios. The Mac's UI and magic key combos will be enough. You can always hold down option during boot to choose which device to boot from, and there are a bunch of other combos that are useful for this or that: > > http://davespicks.com/writing/programming/mackeys.html#boot > > -- > Michael Moore > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjensen at apache.org Mon Mar 31 17:39:51 2014 From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 17:39:51 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Email list moderation inquiry In-Reply-To: <5339BA47.1050900@real-time.com> References: <5339BA47.1050900@real-time.com> Message-ID: nah, it's worked out well. On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 1:56 PM, Rick Tanner wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > As requested, I'm speaking here as one of the mailing list > administrators -- and *NOT* moderator (please keep reading..) or not > as a subscriber. > > > For the most recent events from March-30-2014, since it seemed a > flamewar was well on it's way, I stepped forward and placed the > moderation setting on a particular subscriber. > > Next topic. > > The TCLUG-list has no content or subscriber moderators. > > Here's why: > > Anytime there has been an issue or problem, the list has moderated > itself. > > Other subscribers speak up on what they want to see changed and make > suggestions for such change. Others chime in and a general consensus > is met. The concept of netiquette prevails. > > Do you, as list subscribers, want a person or people in charge of > moderating content? > > If so, then the list needs to agree on what is acceptable and not > acceptable to post in the list and a course of action to take when the > unacceptable happens. And another thing to keep in mind, any policy > creation will need to retroactively apply to all subscribers on the > list now. How well is that going to be received? > > If this should proceed, then how are moderators chosen? > I.e., nomination and voting or strictly volunteer or some other > method? How many are allowed? > > And the "other duties" such as: (to name a few) > > * How are tasks tracked between moderators to make sure one does not > undo the work of the others? > * Is there a need for any kind of audit trail for moderators and > their moderation actions? > * Is there a chain of command between moderators? > * How are disagreements and policy discussion between moderators > handled? > * What course of actions can a subscriber take dispute a moderation > ruling? > * How is such a dispute handled? > > > > > > > > So, as a list administrator, what do we do? > > As list administrators, we make sure the list is available, as in up & > running. Email posts come in, they get distributed to subscribers and > a copy is made available in the mailing list archives. We reject the > 20 to 30 spam messages per day that try to make it to the list and in > very rare cases manually unsubscribe or subscribe someone for numerous > reasons per their request. We are either invisible, or in trouble. ;-) > > > > - -- > Rick Tanner | Phone : (952) 943-8700 > http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952) 943-8500 > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEVAwUBUzm6QVwn8veVxBRBAQKvcAf/VDjS6l8zj11oOSYY/hLzAtVotU7+jY5e > KECnTgW2Np2zsw5a9A9gEbqkQjNbeW9+5TTJs97Ek1I4wHRQtDao25ivbb6ETYVW > 7f4qIdmL7e6yRU7WahhwTB8vkpchrx2DulWSc6jR+YKWq6rH5a6rvhjwZaMsWxI2 > WoiLXN594e3NtOg/4T9oSN9YIgl9fRZ0aEXd1k/ttALKrdW18fH+1Qqi+LvWPcKM > CRTaGie7l+pJvMbpQ79yjIaz2bCjmdikhykB7It4Pe8c4+7MJWbOt59Mw0xRaDRa > ps0I3eg4Ju0FyB4GD1Fw6qNC/kztJ2YQTsRX0xL+bd7lTv88lrDW1Q== > =2AlU > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Mon Mar 31 17:33:14 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 17:33:14 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , <050F8AEC-3999-4040-BF28-809118D98DB3@me.com>, , , , Message-ID: Yes I have found that this particular Power Book G4 is 32 bit or possibly most all G4 Power Book's are 32 bit I read something and forgot it already. What I know now is that this particular Power Book G4 is -powerpc architecture. Thanks for the info. The links are very helpful for reference. From: ryanjcole at me.com Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 17:25:40 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? The biggest thing to know is that ia64 is NOT the normal Intel 64-bit CPU. I?ve made that mistake too many times. This is the FreeBSD list of images (the only one I have bookmarked): ISO-IMAGES-amd64 // Intel/AMD/standard 64-bit architecture ISO-IMAGES-i386 // Intel/AMD 32-bit architecture ISO-IMAGES-ia64 // Itanium 64-bit ISO-IMAGES-pc98 // I know nothing about this but found this: http://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/48919/pc-98 ISO-IMAGES-powerpc // This is what you want ISO-IMAGES-powerpc64 // This is most likely not what you want ISO-IMAGES-sparc64 // SPARC - a Sun product: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPARC On Mar 31, 2014, at 5:20 PM, David Wagle wrote:Yes - this is actually a very key bit of information that is often missed by people who only work with single chip types. On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: Paul, It looks to me that in order to get the correct Ubuntu edition for the MAC is specifically a PowerPC download not just a standard .iso download, will work. That is correct - each build of an OS is targeted at a particular architecture.i386 = 32-bit Intel-style CPUs (including AMD)AMD64 = 64-bit Intel-style CPUs (including AMD)Sparc = Sparc-based systems etc. etc. etc. I don?t know if you would want a PPC or MacPPC image. There are three different PPC processors in history:1) IBM 2) Motorola3) Apple (which is either IBM or Motorola depending on the model Macintosh). Further reading (historical information, mainly): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM_alliance On Mar 31, 2014, at 4:59 PM, paul g wrote: Thanks Ryan, The deal here with this Power Book G4 is I am trying to help out a friend that knows some lesser about computers. run something newer than OSX Tiger. At this point Firefox is stuck at 3.5--- and flash is outdated etc. So without me knowing more about programming or whatever. I thought the best anwser I could come up with for an operating system for them would be use Ubuntu on the computer. It looks to me that in order to get the correct Ubuntu edition for the MAC is specifically a PowerPC download not just a standard .iso download, will work. Thanks for the tips in the following post 'zapping parameter Ram' is important obviously. Thanks, From: ryanjcole at me.com Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:37:58 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? Paul, It should be as simple as pressing the ?option? key when you hear the chimes. You can also load the OS and go to Preferences and choose Startup Disk (assuming OS X is installed) and select your Flash device. Also if none of this is working zapping the parameter RAM will do some good. Press, and hold: Command, Option, P and R and let it cycle through a series of startup chimes without letting go. I usually do this 10 times to make sure it?s cleared out. This was a common tip for the PPC machines from Apple. ?Ryan On Mar 31, 2014, at 3:05 PM, paul g wrote: I have done some more reading mostly on the Ubuntu PowerPC and guides as far as setup. It looks like booting from flash drive requires some steps. When I was in front of the Power Book 2 days ago. I tried holding down the c key during boot with the original osx driver disk in the cd-drive it did not load the cd and continued to load up to the splash screen. Either way it looks like I have a bunch more reading to do. Thanks, From: stuporglue at gmail.com Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 09:47:15 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? You don't load a bios screen on a mac. However, to select your boot source, you hold down the command key when you power it on. After the beep you'll get a selection of boot locations that the computer can see at that time. Correct. Or, if you know you want to boot from the CD, just hold the "c" key (or maybe it's option-c) before the chime. Once you have linux installed, you'll get the same thing. I think you'll need to install rEFIt or some other EFI boot manager as well. Not for PowerPC macs, EFI didn't pop up on Macs until they switched to Intel chips. PowerPC Macs used Open Firmware, but you wouldn't want to get into Open Firmware like you would the Bios. The Mac's UI and magic key combos will be enough. You can always hold down option during boot to choose which device to boot from, and there are a bunch of other combos that are useful for this or that: http://davespicks.com/writing/programming/mackeys.html#boot --Michael Moore _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.wagle at gmail.com Mon Mar 31 17:45:30 2014 From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 17:45:30 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? In-Reply-To: <715D8EDF-A5E4-4575-A97C-FAA6D1C8F5D5@me.com> References: <050F8AEC-3999-4040-BF28-809118D98DB3@me.com> <715D8EDF-A5E4-4575-A97C-FAA6D1C8F5D5@me.com> Message-ID: Actually, I think that the PPC distro for Ubuntu is barely on life-support. I'm not an ubutnu user, but I recall it being removed from the mirrors and put into "community support" status. Nothing inherently wrong with that, just not on the main mirrors. As an aside -- for older hardware that isn't the primary target for active distros, it is very much worth considering Gentoo. You HAVE to read the install docs. You HAVE to take your time and understand what you're doing. But you will end up with a working system that you can use pretty much forever. Gentoo still SUPPORTS architectures that are 20 years out of production. On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 5:31 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > I would think that there's just a PPC image listed for Ubuntu. I'm so far > removed from the PPC world I couldn't tell you anything with certainty. > > > On Mar 31, 2014, at 5:25 PM, paul g wrote: > > I will do more reading on the situation I really really wish the computer > was at my location now but unfortunately it is not. > > Would it be out of place to ask you how I would know to choose either PPC > or MacPPC image? > > I will continue to do more reading this evening > > Thanks, > > ------------------------------ > Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 17:20:29 -0500 > From: david.wagle at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? > > Yes - this is actually a very key bit of information that is often missed > by people who only work with single chip types. > > > On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > > Paul, > > It looks to me that in order to get the correct Ubuntu edition for the > MAC is specifically a PowerPC download not just a standard .iso download, > will work. > > > That is correct - each build of an OS is targeted at a particular > architecture. > i386 = 32-bit Intel-style CPUs (including AMD) > AMD64 = 64-bit Intel-style CPUs (including AMD) > Sparc = Sparc-based systems > etc. etc. etc. > > I don't know if you would want a PPC or MacPPC image. There are three > different PPC processors in history: > 1) IBM > 2) Motorola > 3) Apple (which is either IBM or Motorola depending on the model > Macintosh). > > Further reading (historical information, mainly): > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM_alliance > > > On Mar 31, 2014, at 4:59 PM, paul g wrote: > > Thanks Ryan, > > The deal here with this Power Book G4 is I am trying to help out a friend > that knows some lesser about computers. run something newer than OSX Tiger. > At this point Firefox is stuck at 3.5--- and flash is outdated etc. So > without me knowing more about programming or whatever. I thought the best > anwser I could come up with for an operating system for them would be use > Ubuntu on the computer. It looks to me that in order to get the correct > Ubuntu edition for the MAC is specifically a PowerPC download not just a > standard .iso download, will work. > > Thanks for the tips in the following post 'zapping parameter Ram' is > important obviously. > > Thanks, > > ------------------------------ > From: ryanjcole at me.com > Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:37:58 -0500 > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? > > Paul, > > It should be as simple as pressing the "option" key when you hear the > chimes. > > You can also load the OS and go to Preferences and choose Startup Disk > (assuming OS X is installed) and select your Flash device. > > Also if none of this is working zapping the parameter RAM will do some > good. Press, and hold: Command, Option, P and R and let it cycle through a > series of startup chimes without letting go. I usually do this 10 times to > make sure it's cleared out. This was a common tip for the PPC machines from > Apple. > > -- > Ryan > > > On Mar 31, 2014, at 3:05 PM, paul g wrote: > > I have done some more reading mostly on the Ubuntu PowerPC and guides as > far as setup. It looks like booting from flash drive requires some steps. > When I was in front of the Power Book 2 days ago. I tried holding down the > c key during boot with the original osx driver disk in the cd-drive it did > not load the cd and continued to load up to the splash screen. Either way > it looks like I have a bunch more reading to do. > > Thanks, > > ------------------------------ > From: stuporglue at gmail.com > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 09:47:15 -0500 > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? > > You don't load a bios screen on a mac. However, to select your boot > source, you hold down the command key when you power it on. After the beep > you'll get a selection of boot locations that the computer can see at that > time. > > > Correct. Or, if you know you want to boot from the CD, just hold the "c" > key (or maybe it's option-c) before the chime. > > > > Once you have linux installed, you'll get the same thing. I think you'll > need to install rEFIt or some other EFI boot manager as well. > > > Not for PowerPC macs, EFI didn't pop up on Macs until they switched to > Intel chips. > > PowerPC Macs used Open Firmware, but you wouldn't want to get into Open > Firmware like you would the Bios. The Mac's UI and magic key combos will be > enough. You can always hold down option during boot to choose which device > to boot from, and there are a bunch of other combos that are useful for > this or that: > > http://davespicks.com/writing/programming/mackeys.html#boot > > -- > Michael Moore > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Mon Mar 31 17:57:09 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 17:57:09 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? In-Reply-To: References: <050F8AEC-3999-4040-BF28-809118D98DB3@me.com> Message-ID: All G3/G4 Mac?s are PPC. When they dropped the term ?PowerBook? they moved to Intel processors (2006) - since then they?re called MacBooks (Air, Pro, Retina, etc.) And they were all 32-bit. On Mar 31, 2014, at 5:33 PM, paul g wrote: > Yes I have found that this particular Power Book G4 is 32 bit or possibly most all G4 Power Book's are 32 bit I read something and forgot it already. > > What I know now is that this particular Power Book G4 is -powerpc architecture. > > Thanks for the info. The links are very helpful for reference. > > From: ryanjcole at me.com > Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 17:25:40 -0500 > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? > > The biggest thing to know is that ia64 is NOT the normal Intel 64-bit CPU. I?ve made that mistake too many times. > > This is the FreeBSD list of images (the only one I have bookmarked): > > ISO-IMAGES-amd64 // Intel/AMD/standard 64-bit architecture > ISO-IMAGES-i386 // Intel/AMD 32-bit architecture > ISO-IMAGES-ia64 // Itanium 64-bit > ISO-IMAGES-pc98 // I know nothing about this but found this: http://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/48919/pc-98 > ISO-IMAGES-powerpc // This is what you want > ISO-IMAGES-powerpc64 // This is most likely not what you want > ISO-IMAGES-sparc64 // SPARC - a Sun product: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPARC > > > > On Mar 31, 2014, at 5:20 PM, David Wagle wrote: > > Yes - this is actually a very key bit of information that is often missed by people who only work with single chip types. > > > On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > Paul, > > It looks to me that in order to get the correct Ubuntu edition for the MAC is specifically a PowerPC download not just a standard .iso download, will work. > > That is correct - each build of an OS is targeted at a particular architecture. > i386 = 32-bit Intel-style CPUs (including AMD) > AMD64 = 64-bit Intel-style CPUs (including AMD) > Sparc = Sparc-based systems > etc. etc. etc. > > I don?t know if you would want a PPC or MacPPC image. There are three different PPC processors in history: > 1) IBM > 2) Motorola > 3) Apple (which is either IBM or Motorola depending on the model Macintosh). > > Further reading (historical information, mainly): > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM_alliance > > > On Mar 31, 2014, at 4:59 PM, paul g wrote: > > Thanks Ryan, > > The deal here with this Power Book G4 is I am trying to help out a friend that knows some lesser about computers. run something newer than OSX Tiger. At this point Firefox is stuck at 3.5--- and flash is outdated etc. So without me knowing more about programming or whatever. I thought the best anwser I could come up with for an operating system for them would be use Ubuntu on the computer. It looks to me that in order to get the correct Ubuntu edition for the MAC is specifically a PowerPC download not just a standard .iso download, will work. > > Thanks for the tips in the following post 'zapping parameter Ram' is important obviously. > > Thanks, > > From: ryanjcole at me.com > Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:37:58 -0500 > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? > > Paul, > > It should be as simple as pressing the ?option? key when you hear the chimes. > > You can also load the OS and go to Preferences and choose Startup Disk (assuming OS X is installed) and select your Flash device. > > Also if none of this is working zapping the parameter RAM will do some good. Press, and hold: Command, Option, P and R and let it cycle through a series of startup chimes without letting go. I usually do this 10 times to make sure it?s cleared out. This was a common tip for the PPC machines from Apple. > > ? > Ryan > > > On Mar 31, 2014, at 3:05 PM, paul g wrote: > > I have done some more reading mostly on the Ubuntu PowerPC and guides as far as setup. It looks like booting from flash drive requires some steps. When I was in front of the Power Book 2 days ago. I tried holding down the c key during boot with the original osx driver disk in the cd-drive it did not load the cd and continued to load up to the splash screen. Either way it looks like I have a bunch more reading to do. > > Thanks, > > From: stuporglue at gmail.com > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 09:47:15 -0500 > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? > > You don't load a bios screen on a mac. However, to select your boot source, you hold down the command key when you power it on. After the beep you'll get a selection of boot locations that the computer can see at that time. > > Correct. Or, if you know you want to boot from the CD, just hold the "c" key (or maybe it's option-c) before the chime. > > > Once you have linux installed, you'll get the same thing. I think you'll need to install rEFIt or some other EFI boot manager as well. > > Not for PowerPC macs, EFI didn't pop up on Macs until they switched to Intel chips. > > PowerPC Macs used Open Firmware, but you wouldn't want to get into Open Firmware like you would the Bios. The Mac's UI and magic key combos will be enough. You can always hold down option during boot to choose which device to boot from, and there are a bunch of other combos that are useful for this or that: > > http://davespicks.com/writing/programming/mackeys.html#boot > > -- > Michael Moore > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tonyyarusso at gmail.com Mon Mar 31 18:04:19 2014 From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 18:04:19 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Email list moderation inquiry In-Reply-To: <5339BA47.1050900@real-time.com> References: <5339BA47.1050900@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 1:56 PM, Rick Tanner wrote: > Do you, as list subscribers, want a person or people in charge of > moderating content? Yes. > If so, then the list needs to agree on what is acceptable and not > acceptable to post in the list and a course of action to take when the > unacceptable happens. This part is absurdly hard. I have several years of experience moderating among other things the #ubuntu-offtopic IRC channel, and trying to figure out where to draw the line between "offtopic stuff that belongs in this chat" and "inappropriate and unacceptable" has been a source of substantial friction both between the ops and users and between members of the ops team. > If this should proceed, then how are moderators chosen? > I.e., nomination and voting or strictly volunteer or some other > method? Volunteering subject to an up-or-down vote by existing mods (perhaps after a learning / settling-in period) seems to work reasonably well. > How many are allowed? As many as are needed to always have one available to deal with the workload and avoid burnout. > * How are tasks tracked between moderators to make sure one does not > undo the work of the others? That depends on how many you have. If it's two or three people, it's easy for them to communicate. If it's a dozen, you might need a separate mailing list or ticketing system. The Ubuntu IRC team had some members actually write a piece of "bantracker" software that let you comment on bans so others would know the rationale, history, and whether and when someone else could remove it. That was pretty slick, but a huge amount of work to build. > * Is there a need for any kind of audit trail for moderators and > their moderation actions? "Maybe". I'd start with no and see if it becomes a problem. > * Is there a chain of command between moderators? I don't think this group is large enough for that to be appropriate. > * How are disagreements and policy discussion between moderators > handled? Disagreements should be discussed privately and attempt to find some sort of consensus among the team. Policy discussion should be public, and consensus is good, but majority approval can work too. > * What course of actions can a subscriber take dispute a moderation > ruling? > * How is such a dispute handled? There should be a way of contacting the moderation team off-list, and their dispute should be reviewed and handled by a different moderator than did the original action. - Tony From skylineproject at gmail.com Mon Mar 31 18:41:14 2014 From: skylineproject at gmail.com (Brandon Johnson) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 18:41:14 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? In-Reply-To: References: <050F8AEC-3999-4040-BF28-809118D98DB3@me.com> Message-ID: <65C5935B-70BB-4D1F-B8CE-740EE0B3715B@gmail.com> If I recall correctly, the only 64bit PPC processor Apple ever used was the G5, and their unhappiness with the manufacturer with that series lead to the Intel transition. It looks like Debian still fully supports their PPC port -- you might be interested in that: https://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst Pick the "powerpc" link to download the right .iso for the architecture. Best of luck, paul g, with this project! > On Mar 31, 2014, at 5:57 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > > All G3/G4 Mac?s are PPC. When they dropped the term ?PowerBook? they moved to Intel processors (2006) - since then they?re called MacBooks (Air, Pro, Retina, etc.) > > And they were all 32-bit. > >> On Mar 31, 2014, at 5:33 PM, paul g wrote: >> >> Yes I have found that this particular Power Book G4 is 32 bit or possibly most all G4 Power Book's are 32 bit I read something and forgot it already. >> >> What I know now is that this particular Power Book G4 is -powerpc architecture. >> >> Thanks for the info. The links are very helpful for reference. >> >> From: ryanjcole at me.com >> Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 17:25:40 -0500 >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? >> >> The biggest thing to know is that ia64 is NOT the normal Intel 64-bit CPU. I?ve made that mistake too many times. >> >> This is the FreeBSD list of images (the only one I have bookmarked): >> >> ISO-IMAGES-amd64 // Intel/AMD/standard 64-bit architecture >> ISO-IMAGES-i386 // Intel/AMD 32-bit architecture >> ISO-IMAGES-ia64 // Itanium 64-bit >> ISO-IMAGES-pc98 // I know nothing about this but found this: http://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/48919/pc-98 >> ISO-IMAGES-powerpc // This is what you want >> ISO-IMAGES-powerpc64 // This is most likely not what you want >> ISO-IMAGES-sparc64 // SPARC - a Sun product: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPARC >> >> >> >> On Mar 31, 2014, at 5:20 PM, David Wagle wrote: >> >> Yes - this is actually a very key bit of information that is often missed by people who only work with single chip types. >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> Paul, >> >> It looks to me that in order to get the correct Ubuntu edition for the MAC is specifically a PowerPC download not just a standard .iso download, will work. >> >> That is correct - each build of an OS is targeted at a particular architecture. >> i386 = 32-bit Intel-style CPUs (including AMD) >> AMD64 = 64-bit Intel-style CPUs (including AMD) >> Sparc = Sparc-based systems >> etc. etc. etc. >> >> I don?t know if you would want a PPC or MacPPC image. There are three different PPC processors in history: >> 1) IBM >> 2) Motorola >> 3) Apple (which is either IBM or Motorola depending on the model Macintosh). >> >> Further reading (historical information, mainly): >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM_alliance >> >> >> On Mar 31, 2014, at 4:59 PM, paul g wrote: >> >> Thanks Ryan, >> >> The deal here with this Power Book G4 is I am trying to help out a friend that knows some lesser about computers. run something newer than OSX Tiger. At this point Firefox is stuck at 3.5--- and flash is outdated etc. So without me knowing more about programming or whatever. I thought the best anwser I could come up with for an operating system for them would be use Ubuntu on the computer. It looks to me that in order to get the correct Ubuntu edition for the MAC is specifically a PowerPC download not just a standard .iso download, will work. >> >> Thanks for the tips in the following post 'zapping parameter Ram' is important obviously. >> >> Thanks, >> >> From: ryanjcole at me.com >> Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:37:58 -0500 >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? >> >> Paul, >> >> It should be as simple as pressing the ?option? key when you hear the chimes. >> >> You can also load the OS and go to Preferences and choose Startup Disk (assuming OS X is installed) and select your Flash device. >> >> Also if none of this is working zapping the parameter RAM will do some good. Press, and hold: Command, Option, P and R and let it cycle through a series of startup chimes without letting go. I usually do this 10 times to make sure it?s cleared out. This was a common tip for the PPC machines from Apple. >> >> ? >> Ryan >> >> >> On Mar 31, 2014, at 3:05 PM, paul g wrote: >> >> I have done some more reading mostly on the Ubuntu PowerPC and guides as far as setup. It looks like booting from flash drive requires some steps. When I was in front of the Power Book 2 days ago. I tried holding down the c key during boot with the original osx driver disk in the cd-drive it did not load the cd and continued to load up to the splash screen. Either way it looks like I have a bunch more reading to do. >> >> Thanks, >> >> From: stuporglue at gmail.com >> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 09:47:15 -0500 >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? >> >> You don't load a bios screen on a mac. However, to select your boot source, you hold down the command key when you power it on. After the beep you'll get a selection of boot locations that the computer can see at that time. >> >> Correct. Or, if you know you want to boot from the CD, just hold the "c" key (or maybe it's option-c) before the chime. >> >> >> Once you have linux installed, you'll get the same thing. I think you'll need to install rEFIt or some other EFI boot manager as well. >> >> Not for PowerPC macs, EFI didn't pop up on Macs until they switched to Intel chips. >> >> PowerPC Macs used Open Firmware, but you wouldn't want to get into Open Firmware like you would the Bios. The Mac's UI and magic key combos will be enough. You can always hold down option during boot to choose which device to boot from, and there are a bunch of other combos that are useful for this or that: >> >> http://davespicks.com/writing/programming/mackeys.html#boot >> >> -- >> Michael Moore >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Mon Mar 31 18:24:33 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 18:24:33 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , <050F8AEC-3999-4040-BF28-809118D98DB3@me.com>, , , , , , Message-ID: I know more about Apple now maybe Laptops in general. I am glad I was able to ask some questions here. I have many more questions to ask but reading can be helpful and not bother other users on the list as much. There is a Linux Mint ppc here----->http://www.mintppc.org/content/installation-instructions-mintppc-11 I will spend a bit of time reading about Gentoo. FreeBSD I think is a bit to deep for me right now. I can hardly manage to Do alot of things on Ubuntu. Thanks, From: ryanjcole at me.com Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 17:57:09 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? All G3/G4 Mac?s are PPC. When they dropped the term ?PowerBook? they moved to Intel processors (2006) - since then they?re called MacBooks (Air, Pro, Retina, etc.) And they were all 32-bit. On Mar 31, 2014, at 5:33 PM, paul g wrote:Yes I have found that this particular Power Book G4 is 32 bit or possibly most all G4 Power Book's are 32 bit I read something and forgot it already. What I know now is that this particular Power Book G4 is -powerpc architecture. Thanks for the info. The links are very helpful for reference. From: ryanjcole at me.com Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 17:25:40 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? The biggest thing to know is that ia64 is NOT the normal Intel 64-bit CPU. I?ve made that mistake too many times. This is the FreeBSD list of images (the only one I have bookmarked): ISO-IMAGES-amd64 // Intel/AMD/standard 64-bit architecture ISO-IMAGES-i386 // Intel/AMD 32-bit architecture ISO-IMAGES-ia64 // Itanium 64-bit ISO-IMAGES-pc98 // I know nothing about this but found this: http://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/48919/pc-98 ISO-IMAGES-powerpc // This is what you want ISO-IMAGES-powerpc64 // This is most likely not what you want ISO-IMAGES-sparc64 // SPARC - a Sun product: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPARC On Mar 31, 2014, at 5:20 PM, David Wagle wrote:Yes - this is actually a very key bit of information that is often missed by people who only work with single chip types. On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: Paul, It looks to me that in order to get the correct Ubuntu edition for the MAC is specifically a PowerPC download not just a standard .iso download, will work. That is correct - each build of an OS is targeted at a particular architecture.i386 = 32-bit Intel-style CPUs (including AMD)AMD64 = 64-bit Intel-style CPUs (including AMD)Sparc = Sparc-based systemsetc. etc. etc. I don?t know if you would want a PPC or MacPPC image. There are three different PPC processors in history:1) IBM 2) Motorola3) Apple (which is either IBM or Motorola depending on the model Macintosh). Further reading (historical information, mainly): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM_alliance On Mar 31, 2014, at 4:59 PM, paul g wrote: Thanks Ryan, The deal here with this Power Book G4 is I am trying to help out a friend that knows some lesser about computers. run something newer than OSX Tiger. At this point Firefox is stuck at 3.5--- and flash is outdated etc. So without me knowing more about programming or whatever. I thought the best anwser I could come up with for an operating system for them would be use Ubuntu on the computer. It looks to me that in order to get the correct Ubuntu edition for the MAC is specifically a PowerPC download not just a standard .iso download, will work. Thanks for the tips in the following post 'zapping parameter Ram' is important obviously. Thanks, From: ryanjcole at me.com Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:37:58 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? Paul, It should be as simple as pressing the ?option? key when you hear the chimes. You can also load the OS and go to Preferences and choose Startup Disk (assuming OS X is installed) and select your Flash device. Also if none of this is working zapping the parameter RAM will do some good. Press, and hold: Command, Option, P and R and let it cycle through a series of startup chimes without letting go. I usually do this 10 times to make sure it?s cleared out. This was a common tip for the PPC machines from Apple. ?Ryan On Mar 31, 2014, at 3:05 PM, paul g wrote: I have done some more reading mostly on the Ubuntu PowerPC and guides as far as setup. It looks like booting from flash drive requires some steps. When I was in front of the Power Book 2 days ago. I tried holding down the c key during boot with the original osx driver disk in the cd-drive it did not load the cd and continued to load up to the splash screen. Either way it looks like I have a bunch more reading to do. Thanks, From: stuporglue at gmail.com Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 09:47:15 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? You don't load a bios screen on a mac. However, to select your boot source, you hold down the command key when you power it on. After the beep you'll get a selection of boot locations that the computer can see at that time. Correct. Or, if you know you want to boot from the CD, just hold the "c" key (or maybe it's option-c) before the chime. Once you have linux installed, you'll get the same thing. I think you'll need to install rEFIt or some other EFI boot manager as well. Not for PowerPC macs, EFI didn't pop up on Macs until they switched to Intel chips. PowerPC Macs used Open Firmware, but you wouldn't want to get into Open Firmware like you would the Bios. The Mac's UI and magic key combos will be enough. You can always hold down option during boot to choose which device to boot from, and there are a bunch of other combos that are useful for this or that: http://davespicks.com/writing/programming/mackeys.html#boot --Michael Moore _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list_______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list_______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list_______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Mon Mar 31 18:44:58 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 18:44:58 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? In-Reply-To: <65C5935B-70BB-4D1F-B8CE-740EE0B3715B@gmail.com> References: <050F8AEC-3999-4040-BF28-809118D98DB3@me.com> <65C5935B-70BB-4D1F-B8CE-740EE0B3715B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1728E201-16F8-483E-81A4-99692AF74F98@me.com> Right and there were no Powerbook G5s made because of heat and power reasons: http://news.cnet.com/Apple-on-G5-PowerBook-Not-so-fast/2100-1044_3-5559311.html On Mar 31, 2014, at 6:41 PM, Brandon Johnson wrote: > If I recall correctly, the only 64bit PPC processor Apple ever used was the G5, and their unhappiness with the manufacturer with that series lead to the Intel transition. > > It looks like Debian still fully supports their PPC port -- you might be interested in that: https://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst > Pick the "powerpc" link to download the right .iso for the architecture. > > Best of luck, paul g, with this project! > > On Mar 31, 2014, at 5:57 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > >> All G3/G4 Mac?s are PPC. When they dropped the term ?PowerBook? they moved to Intel processors (2006) - since then they?re called MacBooks (Air, Pro, Retina, etc.) >> >> And they were all 32-bit. >> >> On Mar 31, 2014, at 5:33 PM, paul g wrote: >> >>> Yes I have found that this particular Power Book G4 is 32 bit or possibly most all G4 Power Book's are 32 bit I read something and forgot it already. >>> >>> What I know now is that this particular Power Book G4 is -powerpc architecture. >>> >>> Thanks for the info. The links are very helpful for reference. >>> >>> From: ryanjcole at me.com >>> Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 17:25:40 -0500 >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? >>> >>> The biggest thing to know is that ia64 is NOT the normal Intel 64-bit CPU. I?ve made that mistake too many times. >>> >>> This is the FreeBSD list of images (the only one I have bookmarked): >>> >>> ISO-IMAGES-amd64 // Intel/AMD/standard 64-bit architecture >>> ISO-IMAGES-i386 // Intel/AMD 32-bit architecture >>> ISO-IMAGES-ia64 // Itanium 64-bit >>> ISO-IMAGES-pc98 // I know nothing about this but found this: http://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/48919/pc-98 >>> ISO-IMAGES-powerpc // This is what you want >>> ISO-IMAGES-powerpc64 // This is most likely not what you want >>> ISO-IMAGES-sparc64 // SPARC - a Sun product: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPARC >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mar 31, 2014, at 5:20 PM, David Wagle wrote: >>> >>> Yes - this is actually a very key bit of information that is often missed by people who only work with single chip types. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>> Paul, >>> >>> It looks to me that in order to get the correct Ubuntu edition for the MAC is specifically a PowerPC download not just a standard .iso download, will work. >>> >>> That is correct - each build of an OS is targeted at a particular architecture. >>> i386 = 32-bit Intel-style CPUs (including AMD) >>> AMD64 = 64-bit Intel-style CPUs (including AMD) >>> Sparc = Sparc-based systems >>> etc. etc. etc. >>> >>> I don?t know if you would want a PPC or MacPPC image. There are three different PPC processors in history: >>> 1) IBM >>> 2) Motorola >>> 3) Apple (which is either IBM or Motorola depending on the model Macintosh). >>> >>> Further reading (historical information, mainly): >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM_alliance >>> >>> >>> On Mar 31, 2014, at 4:59 PM, paul g wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Ryan, >>> >>> The deal here with this Power Book G4 is I am trying to help out a friend that knows some lesser about computers. run something newer than OSX Tiger. At this point Firefox is stuck at 3.5--- and flash is outdated etc. So without me knowing more about programming or whatever. I thought the best anwser I could come up with for an operating system for them would be use Ubuntu on the computer. It looks to me that in order to get the correct Ubuntu edition for the MAC is specifically a PowerPC download not just a standard .iso download, will work. >>> >>> Thanks for the tips in the following post 'zapping parameter Ram' is important obviously. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> From: ryanjcole at me.com >>> Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:37:58 -0500 >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? >>> >>> Paul, >>> >>> It should be as simple as pressing the ?option? key when you hear the chimes. >>> >>> You can also load the OS and go to Preferences and choose Startup Disk (assuming OS X is installed) and select your Flash device. >>> >>> Also if none of this is working zapping the parameter RAM will do some good. Press, and hold: Command, Option, P and R and let it cycle through a series of startup chimes without letting go. I usually do this 10 times to make sure it?s cleared out. This was a common tip for the PPC machines from Apple. >>> >>> ? >>> Ryan >>> >>> >>> On Mar 31, 2014, at 3:05 PM, paul g wrote: >>> >>> I have done some more reading mostly on the Ubuntu PowerPC and guides as far as setup. It looks like booting from flash drive requires some steps. When I was in front of the Power Book 2 days ago. I tried holding down the c key during boot with the original osx driver disk in the cd-drive it did not load the cd and continued to load up to the splash screen. Either way it looks like I have a bunch more reading to do. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> From: stuporglue at gmail.com >>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 09:47:15 -0500 >>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? >>> >>> You don't load a bios screen on a mac. However, to select your boot source, you hold down the command key when you power it on. After the beep you'll get a selection of boot locations that the computer can see at that time. >>> >>> Correct. Or, if you know you want to boot from the CD, just hold the "c" key (or maybe it's option-c) before the chime. >>> >>> >>> Once you have linux installed, you'll get the same thing. I think you'll need to install rEFIt or some other EFI boot manager as well. >>> >>> Not for PowerPC macs, EFI didn't pop up on Macs until they switched to Intel chips. >>> >>> PowerPC Macs used Open Firmware, but you wouldn't want to get into Open Firmware like you would the Bios. The Mac's UI and magic key combos will be enough. You can always hold down option during boot to choose which device to boot from, and there are a bunch of other combos that are useful for this or that: >>> >>> http://davespicks.com/writing/programming/mackeys.html#boot >>> >>> -- >>> Michael Moore >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Mon Mar 31 18:52:00 2014 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 18:52:00 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? In-Reply-To: References: <050F8AEC-3999-4040-BF28-809118D98DB3@me.com> Message-ID: Paul, As I mentioned before: steer clear of BSD for a while. It?s very fickle and, in my experience, not for people who want a robust (or, for that matter, satisfying) Desktop experience. It just happens to be what I know best. On Mar 31, 2014, at 6:24 PM, paul g wrote: > I know more about Apple now maybe Laptops in general. I am glad I was able to ask some questions here. I have many more questions to ask but reading can be helpful and not bother other users on the list as much. > > There is a Linux Mint ppc here----->http://www.mintppc.org/content/installation-instructions-mintppc-11 > > I will spend a bit of time reading about Gentoo. > > FreeBSD I think is a bit to deep for me right now. I can hardly manage to Do alot of things on Ubuntu. > > Thanks, > > > From: ryanjcole at me.com > Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 17:57:09 -0500 > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? > > All G3/G4 Mac?s are PPC. When they dropped the term ?PowerBook? they moved to Intel processors (2006) - since then they?re called MacBooks (Air, Pro, Retina, etc.) > > And they were all 32-bit. > > On Mar 31, 2014, at 5:33 PM, paul g wrote: > > Yes I have found that this particular Power Book G4 is 32 bit or possibly most all G4 Power Book's are 32 bit I read something and forgot it already. > > What I know now is that this particular Power Book G4 is -powerpc architecture. > > Thanks for the info. The links are very helpful for reference. > > From: ryanjcole at me.com > Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 17:25:40 -0500 > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? > > The biggest thing to know is that ia64 is NOT the normal Intel 64-bit CPU. I?ve made that mistake too many times. > > This is the FreeBSD list of images (the only one I have bookmarked): > > ISO-IMAGES-amd64 // Intel/AMD/standard 64-bit architecture > ISO-IMAGES-i386 // Intel/AMD 32-bit architecture > ISO-IMAGES-ia64 // Itanium 64-bit > ISO-IMAGES-pc98 // I know nothing about this but found this: http://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/48919/pc-98 > ISO-IMAGES-powerpc // This is what you want > ISO-IMAGES-powerpc64 // This is most likely not what you want > ISO-IMAGES-sparc64 // SPARC - a Sun product: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPARC > > > > On Mar 31, 2014, at 5:20 PM, David Wagle wrote: > > Yes - this is actually a very key bit of information that is often missed by people who only work with single chip types. > > > On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > Paul, > > It looks to me that in order to get the correct Ubuntu edition for the MAC is specifically a PowerPC download not just a standard .iso download, will work. > > That is correct - each build of an OS is targeted at a particular architecture. > i386 = 32-bit Intel-style CPUs (including AMD) > AMD64 = 64-bit Intel-style CPUs (including AMD) > Sparc = Sparc-based systems > etc. etc. etc. > > I don?t know if you would want a PPC or MacPPC image. There are three different PPC processors in history: > 1) IBM > 2) Motorola > 3) Apple (which is either IBM or Motorola depending on the model Macintosh). > > Further reading (historical information, mainly): > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM_alliance > > > On Mar 31, 2014, at 4:59 PM, paul g wrote: > > Thanks Ryan, > > The deal here with this Power Book G4 is I am trying to help out a friend that knows some lesser about computers. run something newer than OSX Tiger. At this point Firefox is stuck at 3.5--- and flash is outdated etc. So without me knowing more about programming or whatever. I thought the best anwser I could come up with for an operating system for them would be use Ubuntu on the computer. It looks to me that in order to get the correct Ubuntu edition for the MAC is specifically a PowerPC download not just a standard .iso download, will work. > > Thanks for the tips in the following post 'zapping parameter Ram' is important obviously. > > Thanks, > > From: ryanjcole at me.com > Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:37:58 -0500 > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? > > Paul, > > It should be as simple as pressing the ?option? key when you hear the chimes. > > You can also load the OS and go to Preferences and choose Startup Disk (assuming OS X is installed) and select your Flash device. > > Also if none of this is working zapping the parameter RAM will do some good. Press, and hold: Command, Option, P and R and let it cycle through a series of startup chimes without letting go. I usually do this 10 times to make sure it?s cleared out. This was a common tip for the PPC machines from Apple. > > ? > Ryan > > > On Mar 31, 2014, at 3:05 PM, paul g wrote: > > I have done some more reading mostly on the Ubuntu PowerPC and guides as far as setup. It looks like booting from flash drive requires some steps. When I was in front of the Power Book 2 days ago. I tried holding down the c key during boot with the original osx driver disk in the cd-drive it did not load the cd and continued to load up to the splash screen. Either way it looks like I have a bunch more reading to do. > > Thanks, > > From: stuporglue at gmail.com > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 09:47:15 -0500 > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? > > You don't load a bios screen on a mac. However, to select your boot source, you hold down the command key when you power it on. After the beep you'll get a selection of boot locations that the computer can see at that time. > > Correct. Or, if you know you want to boot from the CD, just hold the "c" key (or maybe it's option-c) before the chime. > > > Once you have linux installed, you'll get the same thing. I think you'll need to install rEFIt or some other EFI boot manager as well. > > Not for PowerPC macs, EFI didn't pop up on Macs until they switched to Intel chips. > > PowerPC Macs used Open Firmware, but you wouldn't want to get into Open Firmware like you would the Bios. The Mac's UI and magic key combos will be enough. You can always hold down option during boot to choose which device to boot from, and there are a bunch of other combos that are useful for this or that: > > http://davespicks.com/writing/programming/mackeys.html#boot > > -- > Michael Moore > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Mon Mar 31 19:13:56 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 19:13:56 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , <050F8AEC-3999-4040-BF28-809118D98DB3@me.com>, , , , , , , , Message-ID: The thing that is upsetting for me is that Gnome 3 is preinstalled on Debian Wheezy, I do not like Gnome 3. I have used Debian Wheezy a little bit with a Sony Viao Laptop I own [it's currently installed on that pc] as of now. Initally after installation I struggled with Adobe-flashplayer under iceweasel. Still Adobe-flashplayer is not installed under iceweasel. Can't login to hotmail or gmail with iceweasel. I have been told that Google Chrome will support flash on Wheezy. I have not tried it personally yet. It's possible to install a different desktop on Debian Wheezy I am sure. But I am certain that the Mac Power Book G4's owner is not going to like Gnome 3 very much at all. Yes, we are looking for a satisfying desktop experience for the end user here with this particular situation that is for certain. Thanks, From: ryanjcole at me.com Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 18:52:00 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? Paul, As I mentioned before: steer clear of BSD for a while. It?s very fickle and, in my experience, not for people who want a robust (or, for that matter, satisfying) Desktop experience. It just happens to be what I know best. On Mar 31, 2014, at 6:24 PM, paul g wrote:I know more about Apple now maybe Laptops in general. I am glad I was able to ask some questions here. I have many more questions to ask but reading can be helpful and not bother other users on the list as much. There is a Linux Mint ppc here----->http://www.mintppc.org/content/installation-instructions-mintppc-11 I will spend a bit of time reading about Gentoo. FreeBSD I think is a bit to deep for me right now. I can hardly manage to Do alot of things on Ubuntu. Thanks, From: ryanjcole at me.com Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 17:57:09 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? All G3/G4 Mac?s are PPC. When they dropped the term ?PowerBook? they moved to Intel processors (2006) - since then they?re called MacBooks (Air, Pro, Retina, etc.) And they were all 32-bit. On Mar 31, 2014, at 5:33 PM, paul g wrote:Yes I have found that this particular Power Book G4 is 32 bit or possibly most all G4 Power Book's are 32 bit I read something and forgot it already. What I know now is that this particular Power Book G4 is -powerpc architecture. Thanks for the info. The links are very helpful for reference. From: ryanjcole at me.com Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 17:25:40 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? The biggest thing to know is that ia64 is NOT the normal Intel 64-bit CPU. I?ve made that mistake too many times. This is the FreeBSD list of images (the only one I have bookmarked): ISO-IMAGES-amd64 // Intel/AMD/standard 64-bit architecture ISO-IMAGES-i386 // Intel/AMD 32-bit architecture ISO-IMAGES-ia64 // Itanium 64-bit ISO-IMAGES-pc98 // I know nothing about this but found this: http://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/48919/pc-98 ISO-IMAGES-powerpc // This is what you want ISO-IMAGES-powerpc64 // This is most likely not what you want ISO-IMAGES-sparc64 // SPARC - a Sun product: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPARC On Mar 31, 2014, at 5:20 PM, David Wagle wrote:Yes - this is actually a very key bit of information that is often missed by people who only work with single chip types. On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: Paul, It looks to me that in order to get the correct Ubuntu edition for the MAC is specifically a PowerPC download not just a standard .iso download, will work. That is correct - each build of an OS is targeted at a particular architecture.i386 = 32-bit Intel-style CPUs (including AMD)AMD64 = 64-bit Intel-style CPUs (including AMD)Sparc = Sparc-based systemsetc. etc. etc. I don?t know if you would want a PPC or MacPPC image. There are three different PPC processors in history:1) IBM 2) Motorola3) Apple (which is either IBM or Motorola depending on the model Macintosh). Further reading (historical information, mainly): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM_alliance On Mar 31, 2014, at 4:59 PM, paul g wrote: Thanks Ryan, The deal here with this Power Book G4 is I am trying to help out a friend that knows some lesser about computers. run something newer than OSX Tiger. At this point Firefox is stuck at 3.5--- and flash is outdated etc. So without me knowing more about programming or whatever. I thought the best anwser I could come up with for an operating system for them would be use Ubuntu on the computer. It looks to me that in order to get the correct Ubuntu edition for the MAC is specifically a PowerPC download not just a standard .iso download, will work. Thanks for the tips in the following post 'zapping parameter Ram' is important obviously. Thanks, From: ryanjcole at me.com Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:37:58 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? Paul, It should be as simple as pressing the ?option? key when you hear the chimes. You can also load the OS and go to Preferences and choose Startup Disk (assuming OS X is installed) and select your Flash device. Also if none of this is working zapping the parameter RAM will do some good. Press, and hold: Command, Option, P and R and let it cycle through a series of startup chimes without letting go. I usually do this 10 times to make sure it?s cleared out. This was a common tip for the PPC machines from Apple. ?Ryan On Mar 31, 2014, at 3:05 PM, paul g wrote: I have done some more reading mostly on the Ubuntu PowerPC and guides as far as setup. It looks like booting from flash drive requires some steps. When I was in front of the Power Book 2 days ago. I tried holding down the c key during boot with the original osx driver disk in the cd-drive it did not load the cd and continued to load up to the splash screen. Either way it looks like I have a bunch more reading to do. Thanks, From: stuporglue at gmail.com Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 09:47:15 -0500 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? You don't load a bios screen on a mac. However, to select your boot source, you hold down the command key when you power it on. After the beep you'll get a selection of boot locations that the computer can see at that time. Correct. Or, if you know you want to boot from the CD, just hold the "c" key (or maybe it's option-c) before the chime. Once you have linux installed, you'll get the same thing. I think you'll need to install rEFIt or some other EFI boot manager as well. Not for PowerPC macs, EFI didn't pop up on Macs until they switched to Intel chips. PowerPC Macs used Open Firmware, but you wouldn't want to get into Open Firmware like you would the Bios. The Mac's UI and magic key combos will be enough. You can always hold down option during boot to choose which device to boot from, and there are a bunch of other combos that are useful for this or that: http://davespicks.com/writing/programming/mackeys.html#boot --Michael Moore _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list_______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list_______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list_______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list_______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kc0iog at gmail.com Mon Mar 31 21:38:30 2014 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 21:38:30 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? In-Reply-To: References: <050F8AEC-3999-4040-BF28-809118D98DB3@me.com> Message-ID: \On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 7:13 PM, paul g wrote: > The thing that is upsetting for me is that Gnome 3 is preinstalled on Debian > Wheezy, I do not like Gnome 3. I have used Debian Wheezy a little bit with a > Sony Viao Laptop I own [it's currently installed on that pc] as of now. > Initally after installation I struggled with Adobe-flashplayer under > iceweasel. Still Adobe-flashplayer is not installed under iceweasel. Can't > login to hotmail or gmail with iceweasel. I have been told that Google > Chrome will support flash on Wheezy. I have not tried it personally yet. There are ISOs for Wheezy using the XFCE desktop. I dropped Gnome a few years ago and haven't looked back. 64 bit: http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/7.4.0/amd64/iso-cd/debian-7.4.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso 32 bit: http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/7.4.0/i386/iso-cd/debian-7.4.0-i386-xfce-CD-1.iso PPC: http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/7.4.0/powerpc/iso-cd/debian-7.4.0-powerpc-xfce-CD-1.iso I think you'll find XFCE simple, lightweight, and fast. Much closer to what you're used to with Gnome 2. Flash does work on Wheezy. You need to add the non-free repo, here's a good walkthrough: http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/debian-linux-7-wheezy-install-flash-player/ I use flash on my Wheezy box (amd64) without issues. It does seem to work better in Chrome than iceweasel. Brian From pj.world at hotmail.com Mon Mar 31 23:33:19 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 23:33:19 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , <050F8AEC-3999-4040-BF28-809118D98DB3@me.com>, , , , , , , , , , Message-ID: Thanks Brian, I read through that information and then the comments as well found in the following link you sent. http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/debian-linux-7-wheezy-install-flash-player/ I noted comment number 10 and 12. Comment 10 states: 'there may possibly be no backports for PowerPC'. Comment 12 states: You can use ftp or http. The package is available only for i386 and amd64.<----That is some cause for concern. I just spent the last few hours starting to try to understand about 4 pages in the Gentoo installation manual for PowerPC referenced in the following link. http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-ppc64.xml?part=1&chap=1 Perhaps it's time for me to consider Debian more seriously for this Mac truly it seems a little easier to setup for someone with little or no experience such as me with linux. Obviously the thought of getting 15 or maybe 20 years out of something like Gentoo has it's reward's and is worth reading more. Thanks, > Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 21:38:30 -0500 > From: kc0iog at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will GNU/Linux work with a MAC? > > \On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 7:13 PM, paul g wrote: > > The thing that is upsetting for me is that Gnome 3 is preinstalled on Debian > > Wheezy, I do not like Gnome 3. I have used Debian Wheezy a little bit with a > > Sony Viao Laptop I own [it's currently installed on that pc] as of now. > > Initally after installation I struggled with Adobe-flashplayer under > > iceweasel. Still Adobe-flashplayer is not installed under iceweasel. Can't > > login to hotmail or gmail with iceweasel. I have been told that Google > > Chrome will support flash on Wheezy. I have not tried it personally yet. > > There are ISOs for Wheezy using the XFCE desktop. I dropped Gnome a > few years ago and haven't looked back. > > 64 bit: http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/7.4.0/amd64/iso-cd/debian-7.4.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso > 32 bit: http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/7.4.0/i386/iso-cd/debian-7.4.0-i386-xfce-CD-1.iso > PPC: http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/7.4.0/powerpc/iso-cd/debian-7.4.0-powerpc-xfce-CD-1.iso > > I think you'll find XFCE simple, lightweight, and fast. Much closer > to what you're used to with Gnome 2. > > Flash does work on Wheezy. You need to add the non-free repo, here's > a good walkthrough: > http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/debian-linux-7-wheezy-install-flash-player/ > > I use flash on my Wheezy box (amd64) without issues. It does seem to > work better in Chrome than iceweasel. > > Brian > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: