From kris.browne at gmail.com  Sat Feb  1 15:26:35 2014
From: kris.browne at gmail.com (Kris Browne)
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2014 15:26:35 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Domain registrars?
In-Reply-To: <717E0B48-3A84-44E4-B9DB-1F1E5F966BA0@me.com>
References: <CABWFOjuJ7_QM1YU7X0DpEZ4ynkPO2rOV+RwdBq40egk7t4G2Uw@mail.gmail.com>
 <717E0B48-3A84-44E4-B9DB-1F1E5F966BA0@me.com>
Message-ID: <CACZjGuPCxpXaa5o3nOhMXTSwB5fEaTRDYd4gaAuW8S0yBf81+Q@mail.gmail.com>

I'm surprised I didn't see it on the thread already, but I have to
recommend pairnic.com for reasonable prices and excellent features.

-- 
Kris Browne
kris.browne at gmail.com
612-353-6969
612-408-4431
http://www.google.com/profiles/kris.browne

"the least expensive, most bug-free line of code is the one you didn't have
to write." - Steve Jobs
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From tlunde at gmail.com  Sat Feb  1 16:07:54 2014
From: tlunde at gmail.com (T L)
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2014 16:07:54 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Domain registrars?
In-Reply-To: <CAAvSaRpGT+aKzVVDdKc6CCKdkX6iAeyfRq_wJRy6XYz4mSR9_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKumxBxJTPRwpeF_gB=umD9MZeabTjsJWdJEXNSC9rE_6vM0_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <0871D73A-6255-4002-913E-77390C4AFFE8@me.com>
 <52EBB584.50100@kateley.com>
 <CAB3GUt88PuO4vUb9QMbSgZcq8862vuEK+pMJvM5PGwkpa_O0Ag@mail.gmail.com>
 <52EBBF62.8010200@umn.edu> <52EBC32E.8030607@kateley.com>
 <CAAvSaRpGT+aKzVVDdKc6CCKdkX6iAeyfRq_wJRy6XYz4mSR9_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAE0VmCykE0fnByZy1ku+4HcOqyqSQMHL-CgBpN8QoDf14nXdPw@mail.gmail.com>

I pay for service from dyn.com so that I can have >1 dyndns.org addresses.
That has been fine.

Last week, however, I encountered a BIG problem with Dyn.

Everydns.org merged into Dyn 2.5 years ago. The transition was well managed
and communicated. So, I've also been using their DNS service since then. As
a "legacy" Everydns customer, this service was grandfathered in for free.

Last week, they turned off the service with zero notice or communication.
Their servers just stopped responding to DNS queries. I only found out when
cached lookup information timed out across the net & mail started becoming
undeliverable.

Shame on me for not having better monitoring tools.  Shame on them for the
lack of communication. It is unclear to me how many legacy Everydns
customers remain or if all of the them were turned off.

Thomas
On Jan 31, 2014 11:02 AM, "John Frisk" <john.a.frisk at gmail.com> wrote:

> Has anyone used dyn.com to register and maintain their domain?  It used
> to be the old dyndns service.
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 9:37 AM, Linda Kateley <lkateley at kateley.com>wrote:
>
>>  I read the "due process" blog in the link. I thought getting swindled on
>> the internet was a rite of passage? :)
>>
>> linda
>>
>>
>> On 1/31/14, 9:21 AM, Haudy Kazemi wrote:
>>
>> Another one to consider is EasyDNS, based in Canada. They also cost a bit
>> more but are quite vocal on their position on certain matters:
>>
>> http://blog.easydns.org/2013/10/08/whatever-happened-to-due-process/
>>
>> http://blog.easydns.org/2010/11/27/first-they-came-for-the-file-sharing-domains/
>>
>> GoDaddy's record is not nearly as clear.
>>
>> -hk
>>
>> On 01/31/2014 08:53 AM, Josh More wrote:
>>
>>  I detest GoDaddy for reasons of ethical behaviour and operational
>> security. There's no need to rant here, as details on those issues are just
>> a google search away.
>>
>>  To answer the original question, I use Gandi.net.  It's a bit more
>> expensive, but they provide rock solid support *AND* direct BIND zone
>> manipulation.  I can't speak for their other services, as all I use is DNS
>> reg.
>>
>>  -Josh
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 8:39 AM, Linda Kateley <lkateley at kateley.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Yea I use godaddy too. I have one domain registered at godaddy that's
>>> hosted on google and have never been able to break it free. At least on
>>> godaddy there are people you can talk to.
>>>
>>> I have one domain and web on ipage, which is like $4 a month. Cheap.
>>>
>>> I had googled the top 10 at one point and there was alot of little good
>>> hosters. Depends on if you just want the domain.
>>>
>>> lk
>>>
>>> On 1/31/14, 7:46 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>>>
>>>> I switched from Network Solutions to GoDaddy in 2004 and never looked
>>>> back.
>>>>
>>>> Not necc. the cheapest anymore but their interface and tools make up
>>>> for it.
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 31, 2014, at 7:43 AM, Jeff Jensen <jjensen at apache.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Does anyone have good recommendations?
>>>>>
>>>>> Is namecheap one of the least expensive that also has a good product
>>>>> and service?
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From jpschewe at mtu.net  Mon Feb  3 20:50:45 2014
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2014 20:50:45 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Internet white list and time limits for a single
	user?
In-Reply-To: <CAFE18KWXLDwvb9qn6uhcXDTUJk5=PoZ86+MxDO0iv8rC4d-C-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFE18KWXLDwvb9qn6uhcXDTUJk5=PoZ86+MxDO0iv8rC4d-C-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALpcnowNqwnu2-4AW2xb_w4xH8-7St33N8ys-xuAGZNBu1ahtw@mail.gmail.com>

If he's the only one using the computer I would suggest setting up
DansGuardian with a transparent proxy. I did this for my kids when they
were younger. I also setup an iptables filter chain for their computer by
MAC address and then used cron to blackhole all of their traffic at night
so that they wouldn't stay up all night on the Internet.


On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Michael Moore <stuporglue at gmail.com>wrote:

> My 7 year old is wanting to go online more and more. Up to now we've only
> let him use the internet when we're actively watching over his shoulder.
>
> He's allowed to use the computer whenever he wants, but not the internet.
> There's a single computer that he uses (running Debian) and he has his own
> account.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions for filtering software or that would
> provide some or all of the following?
>
> * Ability to set a whitelist for a specific user
> * Ability to set internet time limit for a specific user
> * Ability for an admin to enter a password to override both restrictions
> * Easy for an admin to add additional sites to the whitelist
>
> Alternative ideas are welcome too.
>
> Thanks,
> Michael Moore
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>


-- 
http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
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From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Sat Feb  8 09:27:51 2014
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 09:27:51 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Listening on lower TCP/UDP ports as non-root?
Message-ID: <CACEdYO2Qh4_ks21OJiPi2pO1-=fysvz-1CtqULi=DZDDkg07tg@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone know how to listen to to say, 514 UDP, without being root? I'm
working with splunk and would prefer to keep it running contained within
it's own user:group. The Goog affords this,
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/413807/is-there-a-way-for-non-root-processes-to-bind-to-privileged-ports-1024-on-l,
is it the most efficient way to go about this?

Worst case scenario I would use iptables to redirect, but would prefer to
leave syslog on it's standard port.

Thanks for any insight,

--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Sat Feb  8 10:57:28 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 10:57:28 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Listening on lower TCP/UDP ports as non-root?
In-Reply-To: <CACEdYO2Qh4_ks21OJiPi2pO1-=fysvz-1CtqULi=DZDDkg07tg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACEdYO2Qh4_ks21OJiPi2pO1-=fysvz-1CtqULi=DZDDkg07tg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402081056390.4173@cockerel.yaron.org>

The only way to actually do it is to start as root and then drop privs to 
a different user. That's how the pros do it.

On Sat, 8 Feb 2014, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote:

> Does anyone know how to listen to to say, 514 UDP, without being root? I'm
> working with splunk and would prefer to keep it running contained within
> it's own user:group. The Goog affords this,http://stackoverflow.com/questions/413807/is-there-a-way-for-non-root-proce
> sses-to-bind-to-privileged-ports-1024-on-l, is it the most efficient way to
> go about this?
> 
> Worst case scenario I would use iptables to redirect, but would prefer to
> leave syslog on it's standard port.
> 
> Thanks for any insight,
> 
> --
> Jeremy MountainJohnson
> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
> 
>

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Sat Feb  8 11:09:22 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 11:09:22 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS, SATA/e-SATA card
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402081100380.4173@cockerel.yaron.org>

Hello people,

Alright, my RAID/ZFS drama continues. The thing was working perfectly for 
a few months, and now performance has turned abysmal. It's a 16TB array 
running as a media server. If there's one client streaming data, no 
problem. Even two. But add a bunch of little things accessing the pool and 
it crawls. You hit Play on a video and there's a 5 second delay before 
starting. Skip a music track, again, 5 second delay. Kinda risiculous, 
right?

No errors anywhere, zpool srub found nothing wrong, etc. The server's load 
average, though, is always super high (like >4, sometimes up to 6), a lot 
of waiting for IO.

The only idea I have is that using the system's built-in SATA to run eight 
3tb harddrives is not able to keep up with demands. So I'm thinking of 
getting a nice SATA expeansion card to off-load some of the processing off 
the CPU, hopefully that'll help.

So, a couple questions:

1. Can anyone think of any other reason the filesystem is suddenly acting
    like this? It was fine when there was less data on it.

2. I feel it should be seemless to move the ZFS pool/drive array from one
    SATA connection to another. I this correct? The array uses two separate
    SATA connections, but I figure worst case I plug them in in the wrong
    order, it fails, I reverse them and restart and no problem. Is this
    true? I don't want to nuke my ZFS pool...

3. Can anyone recommend a good SATA card with e-SATA ports? I have one
    that came with the drive enclosure but it is not Linux compatible.


Thanks!

From tlunde at gmail.com  Sat Feb  8 13:09:25 2014
From: tlunde at gmail.com (T L)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 13:09:25 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS, SATA/e-SATA card
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402081100380.4173@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402081100380.4173@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <CAE0VmCxacro9eNbOzecA8bzOjycAjKz0uGfab6Ts8gM63cxsHQ@mail.gmail.com>

Re: performance issues?

How full is the pool?
How much RAM does the system have?
Are the ZFS options for de-duplication or compression turned on?
Are you using a L2ARC cache?
If you have any 4k drives, are the filesystem partitions aligned optimally
(ashift=12 maybe)?

Thomas
 On Feb 8, 2014 11:09 AM, <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:

> Hello people,
>
> Alright, my RAID/ZFS drama continues. The thing was working perfectly for
> a few months, and now performance has turned abysmal. It's a 16TB array
> running as a media server. If there's one client streaming data, no
> problem. Even two. But add a bunch of little things accessing the pool and
> it crawls. You hit Play on a video and there's a 5 second delay before
> starting. Skip a music track, again, 5 second delay. Kinda risiculous,
> right?
>
> No errors anywhere, zpool srub found nothing wrong, etc. The server's load
> average, though, is always super high (like >4, sometimes up to 6), a lot
> of waiting for IO.
>
> The only idea I have is that using the system's built-in SATA to run eight
> 3tb harddrives is not able to keep up with demands. So I'm thinking of
> getting a nice SATA expeansion card to off-load some of the processing off
> the CPU, hopefully that'll help.
>
> So, a couple questions:
>
> 1. Can anyone think of any other reason the filesystem is suddenly acting
>    like this? It was fine when there was less data on it.
>
> 2. I feel it should be seemless to move the ZFS pool/drive array from one
>    SATA connection to another. I this correct? The array uses two separate
>    SATA connections, but I figure worst case I plug them in in the wrong
>    order, it fails, I reverse them and restart and no problem. Is this
>    true? I don't want to nuke my ZFS pool...
>
> 3. Can anyone recommend a good SATA card with e-SATA ports? I have one
>    that came with the drive enclosure but it is not Linux compatible.
>
>
> Thanks!
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From jake.vath at gmail.com  Sat Feb  8 14:39:45 2014
From: jake.vath at gmail.com (Jake Vath)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 14:39:45 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS, SATA/e-SATA card
In-Reply-To: <CAE0VmCxacro9eNbOzecA8bzOjycAjKz0uGfab6Ts8gM63cxsHQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402081100380.4173@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAE0VmCxacro9eNbOzecA8bzOjycAjKz0uGfab6Ts8gM63cxsHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMeWMmiAV8rDVqTPYFbe06Uxavx+65GsWT1Ev9SA3t0bf_ibpg@mail.gmail.com>

Thomas is asking the right questions.

Especially, the system specs.
You'll need at least a 1Gb RAM for each 1Tb of disk.
If you are running a lean system that doesn't have enough RAM, then ZFS
won't be able to pre-fetch data.
Caching is pretty important on systems with a large amount of data.

If you are using dedup, you'll need at least 5Gb of RAM for each 1Tb of
disk.
I would assume that you have enough RAM because you can still mount your
pool(s).
>From the lag issues that you've described it kind of sounds like it could
be a RAM issue.

ZFS like ECC RAM, but that's really only important for checksumming and
parity computations.
ZFS uses RAM in all sorts of interesting ways, but it sounds like you might
not have enough RAM for your read-cache to be working correctly(or at all).
How are your write speeds?
I you are having write speed issues as well as reads, then I would say that
points to RAM issues as well.
All the writes that come into the zpools get queue up to the write-cache
before the are added to the Intent Log and flushed to disk.

I'm not sure about any alignment issue, but like Thomas alluded to if your
pool is nearing capacity you could see some performance degradation as well.

I have a buddy that uses 3ware 6gbps RAID controllers, but he's running BSD.
I'm not certain that would matter, but ZFS and BSD tend to play nice.

Can you give us your system specs?

-> Jake



On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 1:09 PM, T L <tlunde at gmail.com> wrote:

> Re: performance issues?
>
> How full is the pool?
> How much RAM does the system have?
> Are the ZFS options for de-duplication or compression turned on?
> Are you using a L2ARC cache?
> If you have any 4k drives, are the filesystem partitions aligned optimally
> (ashift=12 maybe)?
>
> Thomas
>  On Feb 8, 2014 11:09 AM, <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello people,
>>
>> Alright, my RAID/ZFS drama continues. The thing was working perfectly for
>> a few months, and now performance has turned abysmal. It's a 16TB array
>> running as a media server. If there's one client streaming data, no
>> problem. Even two. But add a bunch of little things accessing the pool and
>> it crawls. You hit Play on a video and there's a 5 second delay before
>> starting. Skip a music track, again, 5 second delay. Kinda risiculous,
>> right?
>>
>> No errors anywhere, zpool srub found nothing wrong, etc. The server's
>> load average, though, is always super high (like >4, sometimes up to 6), a
>> lot of waiting for IO.
>>
>> The only idea I have is that using the system's built-in SATA to run
>> eight 3tb harddrives is not able to keep up with demands. So I'm thinking
>> of getting a nice SATA expeansion card to off-load some of the processing
>> off the CPU, hopefully that'll help.
>>
>> So, a couple questions:
>>
>> 1. Can anyone think of any other reason the filesystem is suddenly acting
>>    like this? It was fine when there was less data on it.
>>
>> 2. I feel it should be seemless to move the ZFS pool/drive array from one
>>    SATA connection to another. I this correct? The array uses two separate
>>    SATA connections, but I figure worst case I plug them in in the wrong
>>    order, it fails, I reverse them and restart and no problem. Is this
>>    true? I don't want to nuke my ZFS pool...
>>
>> 3. Can anyone recommend a good SATA card with e-SATA ports? I have one
>>    that came with the drive enclosure but it is not Linux compatible.
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Sat Feb  8 16:40:48 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 16:40:48 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS, SATA/e-SATA card
In-Reply-To: <CAE0VmCxacro9eNbOzecA8bzOjycAjKz0uGfab6Ts8gM63cxsHQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402081100380.4173@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAE0VmCxacro9eNbOzecA8bzOjycAjKz0uGfab6Ts8gM63cxsHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402081636140.2711@cockerel.yaron.org>

On Sat, 8 Feb 2014, T L wrote:

> How full is the pool?

media            16T  6.6T  9.0T  43% /usr/local/media

> How much RAM does the system have?

16 GB

> Are the ZFS options for de-duplication or compression turned on?

I don't remember exactly what I did... forgot how to check, I'll look it 
up later.

> Are you using a L2ARC cache?

I don't think so, again have to look up what that is, but preliminary 
seems like probably not.

> If you have any 4k drives, are the filesystem partitions aligned optimally
> (ashift=12 maybe)?

I actually checked that a few months ago when I was having REALLY horrible 
performance. Ended up rebuilding the pool in a totally different way and 
even though my drives should NOT need that parameter, I used it anyway 
just in case. Performance was fabulous until very recently.

There's only one "partition" in the pool. It's two raidz1 pools with four 
3tb drives each.

> 
> Thomas
> 
> On Feb 8, 2014 11:09 AM, <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
>       Hello people,
>
>       Alright, my RAID/ZFS drama continues. The thing was working
>       perfectly for a few months, and now performance has turned
>       abysmal. It's a 16TB array running as a media server. If there's
>       one client streaming data, no problem. Even two. But add a bunch
>       of little things accessing the pool and it crawls. You hit Play
>       on a video and there's a 5 second delay before starting. Skip a
>       music track, again, 5 second delay. Kinda risiculous, right?
>
>       No errors anywhere, zpool srub found nothing wrong, etc. The
>       server's load average, though, is always super high (like >4,
>       sometimes up to 6), a lot of waiting for IO.
>
>       The only idea I have is that using the system's built-in SATA to
>       run eight 3tb harddrives is not able to keep up with demands. So
>       I'm thinking of getting a nice SATA expeansion card to off-load
>       some of the processing off the CPU, hopefully that'll help.
>
>       So, a couple questions:
>
>       1. Can anyone think of any other reason the filesystem is
>       suddenly acting
>       ? ?like this? It was fine when there was less data on it.
>
>       2. I feel it should be seemless to move the ZFS pool/drive array
>       from one
>       ? ?SATA connection to another. I this correct? The array uses
>       two separate
>       ? ?SATA connections, but I figure worst case I plug them in in
>       the wrong
>       ? ?order, it fails, I reverse them and restart and no problem.
>       Is this
>       ? ?true? I don't want to nuke my ZFS pool...
>
>       3. Can anyone recommend a good SATA card with e-SATA ports? I
>       have one
>       ? ?that came with the drive enclosure but it is not Linux
>       compatible.
> 
>
>       Thanks!
>       _______________________________________________
>       TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>       tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>       http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
>

From robotsondrugs at gmail.com  Sat Feb  8 17:06:27 2014
From: robotsondrugs at gmail.com (Andrew Berg)
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2014 17:06:27 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS, SATA/e-SATA card
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402081100380.4173@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402081100380.4173@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <52F6B873.8000009@gmail.com>

On 2014.02.08 11:09, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
> The only idea I have is that using the system's built-in SATA to run eight 
> 3tb harddrives is not able to keep up with demands. So I'm thinking of 
> getting a nice SATA expeansion card to off-load some of the processing off 
> the CPU, hopefully that'll help.
Do you actually have high CPU usage? I can have 8 disks doing scrubs at the same time (all connected via SATA) and not have CPU load issues
(though scrubbing the root pool will of course make things slow because of the high I/O).

> 2. I feel it should be seemless to move the ZFS pool/drive array from one
>     SATA connection to another. I this correct? The array uses two separate
>     SATA connections, but I figure worst case I plug them in in the wrong
>     order, it fails, I reverse them and restart and no problem. Is this
>     true? I don't want to nuke my ZFS pool...
You can plug them in on an entirely different kind of controller and it won't matter. ZFS uses disk IDs.
If you're moving them to a different system, then you'll want to export and import (and make sure the other system supports the features you
have enabled), but otherwise, it doesn't matter at all.

From pj.world at hotmail.com  Sat Feb  8 18:26:39 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 18:26:39 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ClamAV questions
Message-ID: <BAY175-W125B10898B4FEDD54406C899910@phx.gbl>

I would like to ask about the ClamAV antivirus scanner. Is the ClamAV really capable of detecting a trojan etc within an .exe file? Thank you for links and any help.
 		 	   		  
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From erikerik at gmail.com  Sat Feb  8 20:26:34 2014
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 20:26:34 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ClamAV questions
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W125B10898B4FEDD54406C899910@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W125B10898B4FEDD54406C899910@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8A0CE606-B550-49A0-BBA1-ED7D9C262793@gmail.com>

Yes. Like all other virus scanners, they maintain a database of virus signatures which they use to detect viruses. 

Assuming the virus is in the Clam db, it will be detected. 

> On Feb 8, 2014, at 18:26, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I would like to ask about the ClamAV antivirus scanner. Is the ClamAV really capable of detecting a trojan etc within an .exe file? Thank you for links and any help.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Sat Feb  8 20:53:01 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 20:53:01 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS, SATA/e-SATA card
In-Reply-To: <CAMeWMmiAV8rDVqTPYFbe06Uxavx+65GsWT1Ev9SA3t0bf_ibpg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402081100380.4173@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAE0VmCxacro9eNbOzecA8bzOjycAjKz0uGfab6Ts8gM63cxsHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMeWMmiAV8rDVqTPYFbe06Uxavx+65GsWT1Ev9SA3t0bf_ibpg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082040450.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>

On Sat, 8 Feb 2014, Jake Vath wrote:

> Can you give us your system specs?


Yeah... I've used ZFS on Solaris in a professional capacity, but ZFS on 
Linux at home is very new to me. I've also not had to do a lot of crazy 
things on the Solaris side so I'm far from an expert. I really went with 
ZFS because ext3/ext4 couldn't handle the 16TB thing, and setting up ZFS 
pools was dead simple... or so I thought. There's a whole mess of threads 
about it a few months back.

I'm not sure which system specs are relevant to this, but here goes, 
anyway...

It's a home-built machine (obviously). Asus F2A55-M/CSM motherboard with 
an AMD A10-5800K quad-code CPU @3.8GHz.

Has 16GB of RAM, I'm not sure what speed I got but likely DDR3/1600. The 
motherboard can support up to 64GB if I need to. Right now, top and free 
show not all of it is used, and zero of the swap space is being used.

The array is using eight Western Digital RED 3TB drives. Each disk has has 
been tested before being put in the array (that took forever). They are in 
an external enclosure which uses two port multipliers (so four drives 
each) which are plugged into eSATA ports that are basically plugged into 
the system's regular SATAIII ports.

Right now, with everything reading/writing to the pool disabled except a 
scrub, the load average is 1.93. With streaming to/from the disk it clibs 
up to the 3-4 range and even higher. Top shows a lot of zfs processes 
running (z_rd_int) and kworker. Those processes are the only thing taking 
up any CPU time, but none are taking a really high percentage.


Here's my zpool get all:


NAME   PROPERTY               VALUE                  SOURCE
media  size                   21.8T                  -
media  capacity               41%                    -
media  altroot                -                      default
media  health                 ONLINE                 -
media  guid                   10980099153164009168   default
media  version                -                      default
media  bootfs                 -                      default
media  delegation             on                     default
media  autoreplace            off                    default
media  cachefile              -                      default
media  failmode               wait                   default
media  listsnapshots          off                    default
media  autoexpand             off                    default
media  dedupditto             0                      default
media  dedupratio             1.00x                  -
media  free                   12.7T                  -
media  allocated              9.07T                  -
media  readonly               off                    -
media  ashift                 12                     local
media  comment                -                      default
media  expandsize             0                      -
media  freeing                0                      default
media  feature at async_destroy  enabled                local
media  feature at empty_bpobj    enabled                local
media  feature at lz4_compress   enabled                local



From jake.vath at gmail.com  Sat Feb  8 21:01:37 2014
From: jake.vath at gmail.com (Jake Vath)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 21:01:37 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS, SATA/e-SATA card
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082040450.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402081100380.4173@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAE0VmCxacro9eNbOzecA8bzOjycAjKz0uGfab6Ts8gM63cxsHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMeWMmiAV8rDVqTPYFbe06Uxavx+65GsWT1Ev9SA3t0bf_ibpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082040450.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <CAMeWMmjMjazYhv3k2kHvSCZW4_zWWa_+tzEAm6+nUe0ic=J_XA@mail.gmail.com>

This is really interesting.
Thanks for replying with the system specs. Honesty, I don't see anything
too odd in your specs or in your zpool info.

What kernel version are you running?

->
 On Feb 8, 2014 8:53 PM, <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 8 Feb 2014, Jake Vath wrote:
>
>  Can you give us your system specs?
>>
>
>
> Yeah... I've used ZFS on Solaris in a professional capacity, but ZFS on
> Linux at home is very new to me. I've also not had to do a lot of crazy
> things on the Solaris side so I'm far from an expert. I really went with
> ZFS because ext3/ext4 couldn't handle the 16TB thing, and setting up ZFS
> pools was dead simple... or so I thought. There's a whole mess of threads
> about it a few months back.
>
> I'm not sure which system specs are relevant to this, but here goes,
> anyway...
>
> It's a home-built machine (obviously). Asus F2A55-M/CSM motherboard with
> an AMD A10-5800K quad-code CPU @3.8GHz.
>
> Has 16GB of RAM, I'm not sure what speed I got but likely DDR3/1600. The
> motherboard can support up to 64GB if I need to. Right now, top and free
> show not all of it is used, and zero of the swap space is being used.
>
> The array is using eight Western Digital RED 3TB drives. Each disk has has
> been tested before being put in the array (that took forever). They are in
> an external enclosure which uses two port multipliers (so four drives each)
> which are plugged into eSATA ports that are basically plugged into the
> system's regular SATAIII ports.
>
> Right now, with everything reading/writing to the pool disabled except a
> scrub, the load average is 1.93. With streaming to/from the disk it clibs
> up to the 3-4 range and even higher. Top shows a lot of zfs processes
> running (z_rd_int) and kworker. Those processes are the only thing taking
> up any CPU time, but none are taking a really high percentage.
>
>
> Here's my zpool get all:
>
>
> NAME   PROPERTY               VALUE                  SOURCE
> media  size                   21.8T                  -
> media  capacity               41%                    -
> media  altroot                -                      default
> media  health                 ONLINE                 -
> media  guid                   10980099153164009168   default
> media  version                -                      default
> media  bootfs                 -                      default
> media  delegation             on                     default
> media  autoreplace            off                    default
> media  cachefile              -                      default
> media  failmode               wait                   default
> media  listsnapshots          off                    default
> media  autoexpand             off                    default
> media  dedupditto             0                      default
> media  dedupratio             1.00x                  -
> media  free                   12.7T                  -
> media  allocated              9.07T                  -
> media  readonly               off                    -
> media  ashift                 12                     local
> media  comment                -                      default
> media  expandsize             0                      -
> media  freeing                0                      default
> media  feature at async_destroy  enabled                local
> media  feature at empty_bpobj    enabled                local
> media  feature at lz4_compress   enabled                local
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Sat Feb  8 21:08:26 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 21:08:26 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS, SATA/e-SATA card
In-Reply-To: <CAMeWMmjMjazYhv3k2kHvSCZW4_zWWa_+tzEAm6+nUe0ic=J_XA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402081100380.4173@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAE0VmCxacro9eNbOzecA8bzOjycAjKz0uGfab6Ts8gM63cxsHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMeWMmiAV8rDVqTPYFbe06Uxavx+65GsWT1Ev9SA3t0bf_ibpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082040450.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAMeWMmjMjazYhv3k2kHvSCZW4_zWWa_+tzEAm6+nUe0ic=J_XA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082103060.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>

On Sat, 8 Feb 2014, Jake Vath wrote:

> What kernel version are you running?

   sterling at cockerel:/home/sterling> uname -a
   Linux cockerel 3.5.0-45-generic #68-Ubuntu SMP Mon Dec 2 21:58:52 UTC
   2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

This is several Ubuntus ago, I'm tempted to do an upgrade but I have a 
bunch of custom code things running there and I've not had time to make a 
full OS backup...

And in case you want this too:

   sterling at cockerel:/home/sterling> dpkg --list|grep zfs
   ii  dkms
   2.2.0.3-1.1ubuntu1.1+zfs6~quantal1     all          Dynamic Kernel
   Module Support Framework
   ii  libzfs1                               0.6.2-1~quantal
   amd64        Native ZFS filesystem library for Linux
   ii  mountall                              2.42ubuntu0.4-zfs2
   amd64        filesystem mounting tool
   ii  ubuntu-zfs                            7~quantal
   amd64        Native ZFS filesystem metapackage for Ubuntu.
   ii  zfs-dkms                              0.6.2-1~quantal
   amd64        Native ZFS filesystem kernel modules for Linux
   ii  zfsutils                              0.6.2-1~quantal
   amd64        Native ZFS management utilities for Linux


There is something I noticed when I looked at the FS options; I have this 
guy:

   media  sharenfs              off                    default

I am sharing this guy over NFS, I'm not sure if setting this option 
somehow optimises the pool for it or if it's just a way to write the 
/etc/exports/whatever file. Google/Oracle's documentation on the subject 
is lacking (:



From jake.vath at gmail.com  Sat Feb  8 21:25:45 2014
From: jake.vath at gmail.com (Jake Vath)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 21:25:45 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS, SATA/e-SATA card
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082103060.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402081100380.4173@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAE0VmCxacro9eNbOzecA8bzOjycAjKz0uGfab6Ts8gM63cxsHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMeWMmiAV8rDVqTPYFbe06Uxavx+65GsWT1Ev9SA3t0bf_ibpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082040450.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAMeWMmjMjazYhv3k2kHvSCZW4_zWWa_+tzEAm6+nUe0ic=J_XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082103060.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <CAMeWMmgRnXU_LvA8-oVtMqoBx1u32AprNKbsHmpn5JNZUR_34Q@mail.gmail.com>

Are you using NFSv4?

-> Jake
On Feb 8, 2014 9:09 PM, <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 8 Feb 2014, Jake Vath wrote:
>
>  What kernel version are you running?
>>
>
>   sterling at cockerel:/home/sterling> uname -a
>   Linux cockerel 3.5.0-45-generic #68-Ubuntu SMP Mon Dec 2 21:58:52 UTC
>   2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
>
> This is several Ubuntus ago, I'm tempted to do an upgrade but I have a
> bunch of custom code things running there and I've not had time to make a
> full OS backup...
>
> And in case you want this too:
>
>   sterling at cockerel:/home/sterling> dpkg --list|grep zfs
>   ii  dkms
>   2.2.0.3-1.1ubuntu1.1+zfs6~quantal1     all          Dynamic Kernel
>   Module Support Framework
>   ii  libzfs1                               0.6.2-1~quantal
>   amd64        Native ZFS filesystem library for Linux
>   ii  mountall                              2.42ubuntu0.4-zfs2
>   amd64        filesystem mounting tool
>   ii  ubuntu-zfs                            7~quantal
>   amd64        Native ZFS filesystem metapackage for Ubuntu.
>   ii  zfs-dkms                              0.6.2-1~quantal
>   amd64        Native ZFS filesystem kernel modules for Linux
>   ii  zfsutils                              0.6.2-1~quantal
>   amd64        Native ZFS management utilities for Linux
>
>
> There is something I noticed when I looked at the FS options; I have this
> guy:
>
>   media  sharenfs              off                    default
>
> I am sharing this guy over NFS, I'm not sure if setting this option
> somehow optimises the pool for it or if it's just a way to write the
> /etc/exports/whatever file. Google/Oracle's documentation on the subject is
> lacking (:
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Sat Feb  8 21:33:35 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 21:33:35 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS, SATA/e-SATA card
In-Reply-To: <CAMeWMmgRnXU_LvA8-oVtMqoBx1u32AprNKbsHmpn5JNZUR_34Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402081100380.4173@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAE0VmCxacro9eNbOzecA8bzOjycAjKz0uGfab6Ts8gM63cxsHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMeWMmiAV8rDVqTPYFbe06Uxavx+65GsWT1Ev9SA3t0bf_ibpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082040450.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAMeWMmjMjazYhv3k2kHvSCZW4_zWWa_+tzEAm6+nUe0ic=J_XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082103060.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAMeWMmgRnXU_LvA8-oVtMqoBx1u32AprNKbsHmpn5JNZUR_34Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082132470.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>

Looks like it's supported on both server and clients. Not sure if it's 
enforced...

On Sat, 8 Feb 2014, Jake Vath wrote:

> 
> Are you using NFSv4?
> 
> -> Jake
> 
> On Feb 8, 2014 9:09 PM, <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
>       On Sat, 8 Feb 2014, Jake Vath wrote:
>
>             What kernel version are you running?
> 
>
>       ? sterling at cockerel:/home/sterling> uname -a
>       ? Linux cockerel 3.5.0-45-generic #68-Ubuntu SMP Mon Dec 2
>       21:58:52 UTC
>       ? 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
>
>       This is several Ubuntus ago, I'm tempted to do an upgrade but I
>       have a bunch of custom code things running there and I've not
>       had time to make a full OS backup...
>
>       And in case you want this too:
>
>       ? sterling at cockerel:/home/sterling> dpkg --list|grep zfs
>       ? ii ?dkms
>       ? 2.2.0.3-1.1ubuntu1.1+zfs6~quantal1 ? ? all ? ? ? ? ?Dynamic
>       Kernel
>       ? Module Support Framework
>       ? ii ?libzfs1 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 0.6.2-1~quantal
>       ? amd64 ? ? ? ?Native ZFS filesystem library for Linux
>       ? ii ?mountall ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?2.42ubuntu0.4-zfs2
>       ? amd64 ? ? ? ?filesystem mounting tool
>       ? ii ?ubuntu-zfs ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?7~quantal
>       ? amd64 ? ? ? ?Native ZFS filesystem metapackage for Ubuntu.
>       ? ii ?zfs-dkms ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?0.6.2-1~quantal
>       ? amd64 ? ? ? ?Native ZFS filesystem kernel modules for Linux
>       ? ii ?zfsutils ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?0.6.2-1~quantal
>       ? amd64 ? ? ? ?Native ZFS management utilities for Linux
> 
>
>       There is something I noticed when I looked at the FS options; I
>       have this guy:
>
>       ? media ?sharenfs ? ? ? ? ? ? ?off ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?default
>
>       I am sharing this guy over NFS, I'm not sure if setting this
>       option somehow optimises the pool for it or if it's just a way
>       to write the /etc/exports/whatever file. Google/Oracle's
>       documentation on the subject is lacking (:
> 
>
>       _______________________________________________
>       TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>       tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>       http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
>

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Sat Feb  8 21:36:01 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 21:36:01 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS, SATA/e-SATA card
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082132470.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402081100380.4173@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAE0VmCxacro9eNbOzecA8bzOjycAjKz0uGfab6Ts8gM63cxsHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMeWMmiAV8rDVqTPYFbe06Uxavx+65GsWT1Ev9SA3t0bf_ibpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082040450.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAMeWMmjMjazYhv3k2kHvSCZW4_zWWa_+tzEAm6+nUe0ic=J_XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082103060.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAMeWMmgRnXU_LvA8-oVtMqoBx1u32AprNKbsHmpn5JNZUR_34Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082132470.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082135140.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>

Scratch that; all the clients are using NFSv4:

/usr/local/media from cockerel:/usr/local/media
  Flags:	rw,relatime,vers=4.0,rsize=1048576,wsize=1048576,namlen=255,hard,proto=tcp,port=0,timeo=600,retrans=2,sec=sys,clientaddr=0.0.0.0,local_lock=none,addr=192.168.0.71


On Sat, 8 Feb 2014, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:

> Looks like it's supported on both server and clients. Not sure if it's 
> enforced...
>
> On Sat, 8 Feb 2014, Jake Vath wrote:
>
>> 
>> Are you using NFSv4?
>> 
>> -> Jake
>> 
>> On Feb 8, 2014 9:09 PM, <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
>>       On Sat, 8 Feb 2014, Jake Vath wrote:
>>
>>             What kernel version are you running?
>> 
>>
>>       ? sterling at cockerel:/home/sterling> uname -a
>>       ? Linux cockerel 3.5.0-45-generic #68-Ubuntu SMP Mon Dec 2
>>       21:58:52 UTC
>>       ? 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
>>
>>       This is several Ubuntus ago, I'm tempted to do an upgrade but I
>>       have a bunch of custom code things running there and I've not
>>       had time to make a full OS backup...
>>
>>       And in case you want this too:
>>
>>       ? sterling at cockerel:/home/sterling> dpkg --list|grep zfs
>>       ? ii ?dkms
>>       ? 2.2.0.3-1.1ubuntu1.1+zfs6~quantal1 ? ? all ? ? ? ? ?Dynamic
>>       Kernel
>>       ? Module Support Framework
>>       ? ii ?libzfs1 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 0.6.2-1~quantal
>>       ? amd64 ? ? ? ?Native ZFS filesystem library for Linux
>>       ? ii ?mountall ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?2.42ubuntu0.4-zfs2
>>       ? amd64 ? ? ? ?filesystem mounting tool
>>       ? ii ?ubuntu-zfs ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?7~quantal
>>       ? amd64 ? ? ? ?Native ZFS filesystem metapackage for Ubuntu.
>>       ? ii ?zfs-dkms ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?0.6.2-1~quantal
>>       ? amd64 ? ? ? ?Native ZFS filesystem kernel modules for Linux
>>       ? ii ?zfsutils ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?0.6.2-1~quantal
>>       ? amd64 ? ? ? ?Native ZFS management utilities for Linux
>> 
>>
>>       There is something I noticed when I looked at the FS options; I
>>       have this guy:
>>
>>       ? media ?sharenfs ? ? ? ? ? ? ?off ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?default
>>
>>       I am sharing this guy over NFS, I'm not sure if setting this
>>       option somehow optimises the pool for it or if it's just a way
>>       to write the /etc/exports/whatever file. Google/Oracle's
>>       documentation on the subject is lacking (:
>> 
>>
>>       _______________________________________________
>>       TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>       tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>       http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> 
>> 
>

From lkateley at kateley.com  Sun Feb  9 17:08:46 2014
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2014 17:08:46 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS, SATA/e-SATA card
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082135140.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402081100380.4173@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAE0VmCxacro9eNbOzecA8bzOjycAjKz0uGfab6Ts8gM63cxsHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMeWMmiAV8rDVqTPYFbe06Uxavx+65GsWT1Ev9SA3t0bf_ibpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082040450.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAMeWMmjMjazYhv3k2kHvSCZW4_zWWa_+tzEAm6+nUe0ic=J_XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082103060.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAMeWMmgRnXU_LvA8-oVtMqoBx1u32AprNKbsHmpn5JNZUR_34Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082132470.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082135140.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <52F80A7E.6050409@kateley.com>

The one variable I see that makes me suspicious is

media  failmode               wait                   default

I don't do alot of work with the linux version, but early on this 
variable was added. It originally was set to panic. (yea that was alot 
of fun)...That means that if a number of IO's don't commit what should 
the pool do? There are now 3 options wait, continue or panic.

Failmode wait says if a write doesn't get committed then wait until it 
does. This might make sense for this scenario, a drive is not failing 
but is flaky, ZFS is holding or waiting on completion. Not sure how to 
see spins in linux.I am not even sure i could write this dtrace script 
to see, I guess I might go after the pid.

When ever I saw high cpu, it usually was something either locking or 
waiting or something managing queues

try #zpool set failmode=continue poolname

and see if that helps

lk

On 2/8/14, 9:36 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
> Scratch that; all the clients are using NFSv4:
>
> /usr/local/media from cockerel:/usr/local/media
>  Flags: 
> rw,relatime,vers=4.0,rsize=1048576,wsize=1048576,namlen=255,hard,proto=tcp,port=0,timeo=600,retrans=2,sec=sys,clientaddr=0.0.0.0,local_lock=none,addr=192.168.0.71
>
>
> On Sat, 8 Feb 2014, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
>
>> Looks like it's supported on both server and clients. Not sure if 
>> it's enforced...
>>
>> On Sat, 8 Feb 2014, Jake Vath wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Are you using NFSv4?
>>>
>>> -> Jake
>>>
>>> On Feb 8, 2014 9:09 PM, <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
>>>       On Sat, 8 Feb 2014, Jake Vath wrote:
>>>
>>>             What kernel version are you running?
>>>
>>>
>>>         sterling at cockerel:/home/sterling> uname -a
>>>         Linux cockerel 3.5.0-45-generic #68-Ubuntu SMP Mon Dec 2
>>>       21:58:52 UTC
>>>         2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
>>>
>>>       This is several Ubuntus ago, I'm tempted to do an upgrade but I
>>>       have a bunch of custom code things running there and I've not
>>>       had time to make a full OS backup...
>>>
>>>       And in case you want this too:
>>>
>>>         sterling at cockerel:/home/sterling> dpkg --list|grep zfs
>>>         ii  dkms
>>>         2.2.0.3-1.1ubuntu1.1+zfs6~quantal1     all  Dynamic
>>>       Kernel
>>>         Module Support Framework
>>>         ii  libzfs1 0.6.2-1~quantal
>>>         amd64        Native ZFS filesystem library for Linux
>>>         ii  mountall  2.42ubuntu0.4-zfs2
>>>         amd64        filesystem mounting tool
>>>         ii  ubuntu-zfs                            7~quantal
>>>         amd64        Native ZFS filesystem metapackage for Ubuntu.
>>>         ii  zfs-dkms  0.6.2-1~quantal
>>>         amd64        Native ZFS filesystem kernel modules for Linux
>>>         ii  zfsutils  0.6.2-1~quantal
>>>         amd64        Native ZFS management utilities for Linux
>>>
>>>
>>>       There is something I noticed when I looked at the FS options; I
>>>       have this guy:
>>>
>>>         media  sharenfs              off  default
>>>
>>>       I am sharing this guy over NFS, I'm not sure if setting this
>>>       option somehow optimises the pool for it or if it's just a way
>>>       to write the /etc/exports/whatever file. Google/Oracle's
>>>       documentation on the subject is lacking (:
>>>
>>>
>>>       _______________________________________________
>>>       TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>       tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>       http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Sun Feb  9 19:06:43 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 19:06:43 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS, SATA/e-SATA card
In-Reply-To: <52F80A7E.6050409@kateley.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402081100380.4173@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAE0VmCxacro9eNbOzecA8bzOjycAjKz0uGfab6Ts8gM63cxsHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMeWMmiAV8rDVqTPYFbe06Uxavx+65GsWT1Ev9SA3t0bf_ibpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082040450.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAMeWMmjMjazYhv3k2kHvSCZW4_zWWa_+tzEAm6+nUe0ic=J_XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082103060.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAMeWMmgRnXU_LvA8-oVtMqoBx1u32AprNKbsHmpn5JNZUR_34Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082132470.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082135140.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <52F80A7E.6050409@kateley.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402091905490.8425@cockerel.yaron.org>

On Sun, 9 Feb 2014, Linda Kateley wrote:

> try #zpool set failmode=continue poolname
> 
> and see if that helps

I'll definitely give it a shot!

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Mon Feb 10 13:42:01 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 13:42:01 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS, SATA/e-SATA card
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402091905490.8425@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402081100380.4173@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAE0VmCxacro9eNbOzecA8bzOjycAjKz0uGfab6Ts8gM63cxsHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMeWMmiAV8rDVqTPYFbe06Uxavx+65GsWT1Ev9SA3t0bf_ibpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082040450.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAMeWMmjMjazYhv3k2kHvSCZW4_zWWa_+tzEAm6+nUe0ic=J_XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082103060.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAMeWMmgRnXU_LvA8-oVtMqoBx1u32AprNKbsHmpn5JNZUR_34Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082132470.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082135140.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <52F80A7E.6050409@kateley.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402091905490.8425@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402101340450.4052@cockerel.yaron.org>

Sadly that didn't seem to help ):

I love the idea and simplicity of ZFS, but I'm starting to think it's just 
not very suitable for a home server that's really desktop hardware...

On Sun, 9 Feb 2014, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:

> On Sun, 9 Feb 2014, Linda Kateley wrote:
>
>> try #zpool set failmode=continue poolname
>> 
>> and see if that helps
>
> I'll definitely give it a shot!
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From lkateley at kateley.com  Mon Feb 10 14:31:05 2014
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 14:31:05 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] zfs  time machine video
Message-ID: <52F93709.8070208@kateley.com>

So I am starting to create some small videos. I just posted one that is 
10 minutes to Time Machine. If anyone has a second(or 10 minutes), maybe 
take a peak? Give me only positive feedback :) my ego is way too fragile 
for negative (again Smiley face).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2pyYeANGKc

The content is probably way to simple for this crowd, but i thought i 
would throw it out here..

linda kateley



From lkateley at kateley.com  Mon Feb 10 14:34:26 2014
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 14:34:26 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS, SATA/e-SATA card
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402101340450.4052@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402081100380.4173@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAE0VmCxacro9eNbOzecA8bzOjycAjKz0uGfab6Ts8gM63cxsHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMeWMmiAV8rDVqTPYFbe06Uxavx+65GsWT1Ev9SA3t0bf_ibpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082040450.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAMeWMmjMjazYhv3k2kHvSCZW4_zWWa_+tzEAm6+nUe0ic=J_XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082103060.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAMeWMmgRnXU_LvA8-oVtMqoBx1u32AprNKbsHmpn5JNZUR_34Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082132470.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082135140.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <52F80A7E.6050409@kateley.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402091905490.8425@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402101340450.4052@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <52F937D2.9040101@kateley.com>

Since it worked and then didn't my guess is that something is near or 
starting to fail. Do you show alot of checksum errors in zpool status -v?

hate to see you go.

lk


On 2/10/14, 1:42 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
> Sadly that didn't seem to help ):
>
> I love the idea and simplicity of ZFS, but I'm starting to think it's 
> just not very suitable for a home server that's really desktop 
> hardware...
>
> On Sun, 9 Feb 2014, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 9 Feb 2014, Linda Kateley wrote:
>>
>>> try #zpool set failmode=continue poolname
>>>
>>> and see if that helps
>>
>> I'll definitely give it a shot!
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From jake.vath at gmail.com  Mon Feb 10 14:43:47 2014
From: jake.vath at gmail.com (Jake Vath)
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 14:43:47 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] zfs time machine video
In-Reply-To: <52F93709.8070208@kateley.com>
References: <52F93709.8070208@kateley.com>
Message-ID: <CAMeWMmgS0eD0ncLawzi45CHoE3GJ_txxW-bLyXT2HOuTE3SYNw@mail.gmail.com>

I only watched about three minutes of video, but it looked pretty good.
Good sounds quality.
Good video quality.

Good speed on your speech; not too fast, not too slow.
The content, as you mentioned, was rather simple.
This would be a good video for someone with moderate *nix/BSD skills, but
who isn't necessarily a systems administrator.

Are you planning on doing any videos that are more in-depth that this one?
I recall someone was going to give a talk on ZFS a while back, was that you?
Did that talk ever get recorded?

-> Jake


On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 2:31 PM, Linda Kateley <lkateley at kateley.com> wrote:

> So I am starting to create some small videos. I just posted one that is 10
> minutes to Time Machine. If anyone has a second(or 10 minutes), maybe take
> a peak? Give me only positive feedback :) my ego is way too fragile for
> negative (again Smiley face).
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2pyYeANGKc
>
> The content is probably way to simple for this crowd, but i thought i
> would throw it out here..
>
> linda kateley
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Mon Feb 10 14:49:23 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 14:49:23 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] ZFS, SATA/e-SATA card
In-Reply-To: <52F937D2.9040101@kateley.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402081100380.4173@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAE0VmCxacro9eNbOzecA8bzOjycAjKz0uGfab6Ts8gM63cxsHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMeWMmiAV8rDVqTPYFbe06Uxavx+65GsWT1Ev9SA3t0bf_ibpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082040450.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAMeWMmjMjazYhv3k2kHvSCZW4_zWWa_+tzEAm6+nUe0ic=J_XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082103060.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAMeWMmgRnXU_LvA8-oVtMqoBx1u32AprNKbsHmpn5JNZUR_34Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082132470.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402082135140.5551@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <52F80A7E.6050409@kateley.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402091905490.8425@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402101340450.4052@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <52F937D2.9040101@kateley.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402101446400.4052@cockerel.yaron.org>

That's the thing, zero errors anywhere. Nothing in zpool status, nothing 
in syslog, I ran a scrub... it's maddening.

I'd have to move to something else, too, since everything else needs md 
sitting in the middle...

It's driving me nuts sinc it DID work perfectly, and then started doing 
this. The hardware is all new and I tested all the drives to an insane 
degree before using them. And they're drives that are meant for NAS.

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014, Linda Kateley wrote:

> Since it worked and then didn't my guess is that something is near or 
> starting to fail. Do you show alot of checksum errors in zpool status -v?
>
> hate to see you go.
>
> lk
>
>
> On 2/10/14, 1:42 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
>> Sadly that didn't seem to help ):
>> 
>> I love the idea and simplicity of ZFS, but I'm starting to think it's just 
>> not very suitable for a home server that's really desktop hardware...
>> 
>> On Sun, 9 Feb 2014, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sun, 9 Feb 2014, Linda Kateley wrote:
>>> 
>>>> try #zpool set failmode=continue poolname
>>>> 
>>>> and see if that helps
>>> 
>>> I'll definitely give it a shot!
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From chrome at real-time.com  Tue Feb 11 15:10:36 2014
From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 16:10:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] zfs  time machine video
In-Reply-To: <52F93709.8070208@kateley.com>
References: <52F93709.8070208@kateley.com>
Message-ID: <20140211211036.GF638@real-time.com>

On 02/10 02:31 , Linda Kateley wrote:
> So I am starting to create some small videos. I just posted one that
> is 10 minutes to Time Machine. If anyone has a second(or 10
> minutes), maybe take a peak? Give me only positive feedback :) my
> ego is way too fragile for negative (again Smiley face).
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2pyYeANGKc

Nifty. Thanks for posting that! Very nicely presented.

-- 
Carl Soderstrom
Systems Administrator
Real-Time Enterprises
www.real-time.com

From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Wed Feb 12 10:31:36 2014
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:31:36 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Listening on lower TCP/UDP ports as non-root?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402081056390.4173@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <CACEdYO2Qh4_ks21OJiPi2pO1-=fysvz-1CtqULi=DZDDkg07tg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1402081056390.4173@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <CACEdYO2dG2hyQnOV18TF7JYUhKo5ugETUvojdmcJbcmVgH3LbQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, I'll probably just stick with port forwarding and iptables.
--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com


On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 10:57 AM,  <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
> The only way to actually do it is to start as root and then drop privs to a
> different user. That's how the pros do it.
>
>
> On Sat, 8 Feb 2014, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know how to listen to to say, 514 UDP, without being root? I'm
>> working with splunk and would prefer to keep it running contained within
>> it's own user:group. The Goog affords
>> this,http://stackoverflow.com/questions/413807/is-there-a-way-for-non-root-proce
>> sses-to-bind-to-privileged-ports-1024-on-l, is it the most efficient way
>> to
>> go about this?
>>
>> Worst case scenario I would use iptables to redirect, but would prefer to
>> leave syslog on it's standard port.
>>
>> Thanks for any insight,
>>
>> --
>> Jeremy MountainJohnson
>> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From ryanjcole at me.com  Wed Feb 12 11:29:26 2014
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:29:26 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] [FS] Kingston 8GB DDR3 ECC RAM
Message-ID: <76C85A42-A283-4EA6-9959-24BAEBE5794F@me.com>

List,

I have a small lot of 10 Kingston KTS-SF313/8G sticks available for purchase. They are working pulls from a decommissioned server and I am in the process of trying to find bags for each of them. My new box can use most of them but only with dual processors and we?re not ready to make that jump yet.

New they list for $115, Amazon has them new for $100 so I?m thinking $75 OBO. 

http://www.amazon.com/Kingston-Technology-PC3-10600-KTS-SF313-8G/dp/B0027WPK18

Since I have no easily viable way to test the sticks at the moment I will gladly guarantee them or your money back.

Please send me an email off-list.

Thanks!
?
Ryan

From stuporglue at gmail.com  Thu Feb 13 11:29:41 2014
From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 11:29:41 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] GIS Web dev opening at Flat Rock Geographics
Message-ID: <CAFE18KXPxE5RuMdSiHi_prV5Lh0UwvOYAXT4=7SvAtwKb__OwQ@mail.gmail.com>

We've got an opening for a web developer at Flat Rock Geographics.

The official job posting is here: http://www.flatrockgeo.com/about-us/jobs/


It's a GIS web development position, but I'd rather work with someone who
knows web development and needs to learn the GIS stuff than someone who
knows GIS and doesn't know web development.

Our core application is written PHP with a JavaScript front end.

It's not strictly a Linux job, but it is very Linux friendly. I only have
to boot a Windows VM every few weeks to do IE compatibility testing, the
rest of the time I work in Debian.

Our servers for the web application are Apache and PostgreSQL/PostGIS. We
also run GeoServer which is a Java application in Tomcat. Other fun stuff
comes up once in a while like a self hosted version of
http://cartodb.com/ which
is Rails + node + other stuff.

In other words, there's plenty of fun stuff to play around with.

We work at the CoCo collaborative workspaces in Minneapolis and St. Paul 2
or 3 days each week, and work from home (or wherever) the other days. The
co-workers and boss are friendly.

*Required Qualifications:*

   - 2 solid years of demonstrable experience writing JavaScript
   applications
   - Proficiency with HTML5, CSS3, AJAX/REST
   - Experience with any JavaScript mapping API (Google, ArcGIS,
   OpenLayers, etc.)
   - Server-side scripting such as PHP, Python and/or Ruby
   - Relational databases such as MySQL, PostgreSQL or MS-SQL

*Desirable Skills:*

   - Visualization/charting tools, particularly D3.js
   - Understanding of GIS concepts/terminology
   - Understanding of MVC frameworks such as EmberJS or Bootstrap
   - Code versioning systems such as Subversion or Git
   - Agile development methodology
   - Cloud platforms such as Amazon EC2 and RackSpace
   - Basic Linux Administration: starting/stopping services, Apache logs
   files, etc.


Feel free to email me with any questions either on list or directly.
--
Michael Moore
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From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com  Mon Feb 17 14:51:52 2014
From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (B-o-B De Mars)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 14:51:52 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] zfs  time machine video
In-Reply-To: <52F93709.8070208@kateley.com>
References: <52F93709.8070208@kateley.com>
Message-ID: <53027668.6090403@gmail.com>

On 2/10/2014 2:31 PM, Linda Kateley wrote::
> So I am starting to create some small videos. I just posted one that is
> 10 minutes to Time Machine. If anyone has a second(or 10 minutes), maybe
> take a peak? Give me only positive feedback :) my ego is way too fragile
> for negative (again Smiley face).
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2pyYeANGKc
>
> The content is probably way to simple for this crowd, but i thought i
> would throw it out here..

Very Nice video Linda!


From john.a.frisk at gmail.com  Tue Feb 18 16:30:31 2014
From: john.a.frisk at gmail.com (John Frisk)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 16:30:31 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Next PenguinsUnbound meeting
Message-ID: <CAAvSaRqc-SCxPMDxS7Fam8xd=oK3oh0NF823GNJeCtoBxzNVyQ@mail.gmail.com>

Come join the group on Saturday, February 22nd - 10AM @ TIES Larpenteur
Room for a presentation from Michael Goetz on Chef.  Chef is a tool for
automated deployment of software stacks.

http://www.penguinsunbound.com/ for info and location maps.
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From canito at dalan.us  Wed Feb 19 14:33:08 2014
From: canito at dalan.us (canito at dalan.us)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 14:33:08 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Best Hot Spot for the Money
Message-ID: <20140219143308.Horde.-H_Sm9XP8PfkpfV0q4pg-Q1@mail.dalan.us>

Hi Everyone-

I'm sure this question has been kicked around here before. But I need  
your help to determine which is the best priced hot-spot service for  
the twin cities.

I've been struggling with poor Internet connection at home in  
Burnsville for about a year now. I believe it to be due to the aging  
infrastructure.

I've had both phone and cable, cable being the most reliable when it  
isn't dropping my connection.

I've thought about getting by with the cheapest connection from Cable  
which should be sufficient for reading Democracy Now! and connecting  
to work. Although, unreliable.

My next option is to get a mobile hot-spot which I briefly looked at  
visiting my local Best Buy store.

I have to mention that my mobile phone connection (Verizon) is also a  
bit poor at home; so I don't really have a lot of options.

However, I'd like to know what you consider reliable at a good cost  
for hot-spots?

At this point I am willing to sacrifice streaming and abide by a  
stringent yum update to maybe once a month :) in order to have a  
decent Internet connection.

With that said, all suggestions are welcome.

Thank you,
SDA


From jus at krytosvirus.com  Wed Feb 19 20:23:59 2014
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 20:23:59 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Best Hot Spot for the Money
Message-ID: <hscbcy29jiryeoq3y6sbl9dk.1392861999423@email.android.com>

My parents had one called "mifi" that worked really well but I think it was on Verizon.
Have you considered satellite??
Could there be any wimax options?

-------- Original message --------
From: canito at dalan.us 
Date:02/19/2014  2:33 PM  (GMT-06:00) 
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Best Hot Spot for the Money 

Hi Everyone-

I'm sure this question has been kicked around here before. But I need? 
your help to determine which is the best priced hot-spot service for? 
the twin cities.

I've been struggling with poor Internet connection at home in? 
Burnsville for about a year now. I believe it to be due to the aging? 
infrastructure.

I've had both phone and cable, cable being the most reliable when it? 
isn't dropping my connection.

I've thought about getting by with the cheapest connection from Cable? 
which should be sufficient for reading Democracy Now! and connecting? 
to work. Although, unreliable.

My next option is to get a mobile hot-spot which I briefly looked at? 
visiting my local Best Buy store.

I have to mention that my mobile phone connection (Verizon) is also a? 
bit poor at home; so I don't really have a lot of options.

However, I'd like to know what you consider reliable at a good cost? 
for hot-spots?

At this point I am willing to sacrifice streaming and abide by a? 
stringent yum update to maybe once a month :) in order to have a? 
decent Internet connection.

With that said, all suggestions are welcome.

Thank you,
SDA

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From ryanjcole at me.com  Wed Feb 19 20:29:40 2014
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 20:29:40 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Best Hot Spot for the Money
In-Reply-To: <hscbcy29jiryeoq3y6sbl9dk.1392861999423@email.android.com>
References: <hscbcy29jiryeoq3y6sbl9dk.1392861999423@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <824224E7-44D8-40F7-98B8-F8DAD21E9E19@me.com>

What other providers are in the area? AT&T or Sprint might have better coverage (the Virgin Mobile MiFi uses/used Sprint?s 3G network).

What about long-range point-to-point wifi? Satellite receiver dishes or wide/high-gain 2.4GHz and 5GHz antennae? I?ve done a few installs that covered many miles (one was a 10Mbit connection that covered 75 miles but ? that cost over $15,000 in materials and a 500-foot radio tower.


On Feb 19, 2014, at 8:23 PM, Justin Krejci <jus at krytosvirus.com> wrote:

> My parents had one called "mifi" that worked really well but I think it was on Verizon.
> Have you considered satellite? 
> Could there be any wimax options?
> 
> 
> -------- Original message --------
> From: canito at dalan.us 
> Date:02/19/2014 2:33 PM (GMT-06:00) 
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
> Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Best Hot Spot for the Money 
> 
> Hi Everyone-
> 
> I'm sure this question has been kicked around here before. But I need  
> your help to determine which is the best priced hot-spot service for  
> the twin cities.
> 
> I've been struggling with poor Internet connection at home in  
> Burnsville for about a year now. I believe it to be due to the aging  
> infrastructure.
> 
> I've had both phone and cable, cable being the most reliable when it  
> isn't dropping my connection.
> 
> I've thought about getting by with the cheapest connection from Cable  
> which should be sufficient for reading Democracy Now! and connecting  
> to work. Although, unreliable.
> 
> My next option is to get a mobile hot-spot which I briefly looked at  
> visiting my local Best Buy store.
> 
> I have to mention that my mobile phone connection (Verizon) is also a  
> bit poor at home; so I don't really have a lot of options.
> 
> However, I'd like to know what you consider reliable at a good cost  
> for hot-spots?
> 
> At this point I am willing to sacrifice streaming and abide by a  
> stringent yum update to maybe once a month :) in order to have a  
> decent Internet connection.
> 
> With that said, all suggestions are welcome.
> 
> Thank you,
> SDA
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From lkateley at kateley.com  Wed Feb 19 20:42:42 2014
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 20:42:42 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Best Hot Spot for the Money
In-Reply-To: <824224E7-44D8-40F7-98B8-F8DAD21E9E19@me.com>
References: <hscbcy29jiryeoq3y6sbl9dk.1392861999423@email.android.com>
 <824224E7-44D8-40F7-98B8-F8DAD21E9E19@me.com>
Message-ID: <53056BA2.3010602@kateley.com>

My current mifi has never worked right. Actually my first one worked 
great. Then I lost it in a snow bank and had to pay for a replacement. 
The second one never worked right. The price is right though, it's like 
$20 a month.

It was verizon and when it worked, it worked really well, and 
everywhere(except Belgium). It was nice at the cabin, because we could 
attach like 5 devices. Me, 2 kids and my husband, with one to spare.

linda

On 2/19/14, 8:29 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> What other providers are in the area? AT&T or Sprint might have better coverage (the Virgin Mobile MiFi uses/used Sprint?s 3G network).
>
> What about long-range point-to-point wifi? Satellite receiver dishes or wide/high-gain 2.4GHz and 5GHz antennae? I?ve done a few installs that covered many miles (one was a 10Mbit connection that covered 75 miles but ? that cost over $15,000 in materials and a 500-foot radio tower.
>
>
> On Feb 19, 2014, at 8:23 PM, Justin Krejci <jus at krytosvirus.com> wrote:
>
>> My parents had one called "mifi" that worked really well but I think it was on Verizon.
>> Have you considered satellite?
>> Could there be any wimax options?
>>
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: canito at dalan.us
>> Date:02/19/2014 2:33 PM (GMT-06:00)
>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Best Hot Spot for the Money
>>
>> Hi Everyone-
>>
>> I'm sure this question has been kicked around here before. But I need
>> your help to determine which is the best priced hot-spot service for
>> the twin cities.
>>
>> I've been struggling with poor Internet connection at home in
>> Burnsville for about a year now. I believe it to be due to the aging
>> infrastructure.
>>
>> I've had both phone and cable, cable being the most reliable when it
>> isn't dropping my connection.
>>
>> I've thought about getting by with the cheapest connection from Cable
>> which should be sufficient for reading Democracy Now! and connecting
>> to work. Although, unreliable.
>>
>> My next option is to get a mobile hot-spot which I briefly looked at
>> visiting my local Best Buy store.
>>
>> I have to mention that my mobile phone connection (Verizon) is also a
>> bit poor at home; so I don't really have a lot of options.
>>
>> However, I'd like to know what you consider reliable at a good cost
>> for hot-spots?
>>
>> At this point I am willing to sacrifice streaming and abide by a
>> stringent yum update to maybe once a month :) in order to have a
>> decent Internet connection.
>>
>> With that said, all suggestions are welcome.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> SDA
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From ryanjcole at me.com  Thu Feb 20 11:21:41 2014
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 11:21:41 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] [pfSense] configuring OPT1 as hosted services firewall?
Message-ID: <2BBF4EA9-0DA9-4C8E-9F6F-28E656C2DBFB@me.com>

I know some of us use pfSense here and I?ve only used it for single-IP functions and for auto-sensing internet paths if a site doesn?t have a static address at the time of programming.

I?m moving away from single server design on my ESXi box to dedicated guests for each service but I cannot seem to get those dedicated services through the firewall.

I have a 29bit subnet (IPs 1 through 5). Everything is internal to the ESXi (5.1) server.

.1 = pfSense Firewall
.2 = OPT1 interface on pfSense
.3 = Customer VM (will port over to OPT2 after this works) 
.4 = All-in-one hosted VM
.5 = Same All-in-one hosted VM

I am going to eliminate .4 and .5 as I pull specific services out and into VMs (I?ve already moved the basic part of the FTP, the entire SQL server and LDAP to internal systems).

But whenever I set up NAT rules on .2 it seems to be using .1?s stuff.

I will have the following pushed through:
FTP
WWW (one primary, each subserver has functioning Apache for their services)
IMAP SSL/SMTP
SSH (via pushed ports to each server)

Any thoughts would be helpful. The biggest thing I need to get running now is the FTP part - I cannot get it to push through nor will it register on the firewall log that it?s being blocked.
?
Ryan

From ryan.c.dunlop at gmail.com  Thu Feb 20 15:51:25 2014
From: ryan.c.dunlop at gmail.com (Ryan Dunlop)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 15:51:25 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] [pfSense] configuring OPT1 as hosted services
	firewall?
In-Reply-To: <2BBF4EA9-0DA9-4C8E-9F6F-28E656C2DBFB@me.com>
References: <2BBF4EA9-0DA9-4C8E-9F6F-28E656C2DBFB@me.com>
Message-ID: <CAKOK-RwL5p0ojNMPAhkMc1FkaV+e9hkVmDeYWbggAKKRaNhNmw@mail.gmail.com>

The folks over at
http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.comp.security.firewalls.pfsense.general  are
real quick to respond to issues like this.  I would give them a shot.


On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 11:21 AM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com> wrote:

> I know some of us use pfSense here and I've only used it for single-IP
> functions and for auto-sensing internet paths if a site doesn't have a
> static address at the time of programming.
>
> I'm moving away from single server design on my ESXi box to dedicated
> guests for each service but I cannot seem to get those dedicated services
> through the firewall.
>
> I have a 29bit subnet (IPs 1 through 5). Everything is internal to the
> ESXi (5.1) server.
>
> .1 = pfSense Firewall
> .2 = OPT1 interface on pfSense
> .3 = Customer VM (will port over to OPT2 after this works)
> .4 = All-in-one hosted VM
> .5 = Same All-in-one hosted VM
>
> I am going to eliminate .4 and .5 as I pull specific services out and into
> VMs (I've already moved the basic part of the FTP, the entire SQL server
> and LDAP to internal systems).
>
> But whenever I set up NAT rules on .2 it seems to be using .1's stuff.
>
> I will have the following pushed through:
> FTP
> WWW (one primary, each subserver has functioning Apache for their services)
> IMAP SSL/SMTP
> SSH (via pushed ports to each server)
>
> Any thoughts would be helpful. The biggest thing I need to get running now
> is the FTP part - I cannot get it to push through nor will it register on
> the firewall log that it's being blocked.
> --
> Ryan
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From pj.world at hotmail.com  Thu Feb 20 23:44:49 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 23:44:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] A question about dpkg
Message-ID: <BAY175-W18D8B115FD955F2DFEB09099850@phx.gbl>

I have a computer running Ubuntu 10.04 and have removed most of the images using the following command in bash     sudo aptitude search linux-image | grep -E "^i"

then I updated grub,

I pulled a dpkg -l |less command and here are the results.

ri  linux-headers-2.6.32-45              2.6.32-45.104                                   Header files related to Linux kernel version 2.6.32
ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-45-generic      2.6.32-45.104                                   Linux kernel headers for version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-46              2.6.32-46.108                                   Header files related to Linux kernel version 2.6.32
ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-46-generic      2.6.32-46.108                                   Linux kernel headers for version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-47              2.6.32-47.109                                   Header files related to Linux kernel version 2.6.32
ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-47-generic      2.6.32-47.109                                   Linux kernel headers for version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-48              2.6.32-48.110                                   Header files related to Linux kernel version 2.6.32
ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-48-generic      2.6.32-48.110                                   Linux kernel headers for version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-49              2.6.32-49.111                                   Header files related to Linux kernel version 2.6.32
ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-49-generic      2.6.32-49.111                                   Linux kernel headers for version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-50              2.6.32-50.112                                   Header files related to Linux kernel version 2.6.32
ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-50-generic      2.6.32-50.112                                   Linux kernel headers for version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-51              2.6.32-51.113                                   Header files related to Linux kernel version 2.6.32
ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-51-generic      2.6.32-51.113                                   Linux kernel headers for version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-52              2.6.32-52.114                                   Header files related to Linux kernel version 2.6.32
ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-52-generic      2.6.32-52.114                                   Linux kernel headers for version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-53              2.6.32-53.115                                   Header files related to Linux kernel version 2.6.32
ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-53-generic      2.6.32-53.115                                   Linux kernel headers for version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-54              2.6.32-54.116                                   Header files related to Linux kernel version 2.6.32
ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-54-generic      2.6.32-54.116                                   Linux kernel headers for version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-55              2.6.32-55.117                                   Header files related to Linux kernel version 2.6.32
ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-55-generic      2.6.32-55.117                                   Linux kernel headers for version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-56              2.6.32-56.118                                   Header files related to Linux kernel version 2.6.32
ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-56-generic      2.6.32-56.118                                   Linux kernel headers for version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-57              2.6.32-57.119                                   Header files related to Linux kernel version 2.6.32
ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-57-generic      2.6.32-57.119                                   Linux kernel headers for version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
ii  linux-headers-generic                2.6.32.57.64                                    Generic Linux kernel headers
ii  linux-image-2.6.32-55-generic        2.6.32-55.117                                   Linux kernel image for version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_64
ii  linux-image-2.6.32-56-generic        2.6.32-56.118                                   Linux kernel image for version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_64
ii  linux-image-2.6.32-57-generic        2.6.32-57.119                                   Linux kernel image for version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_64
:
please help 

note the ri   preceding the linux-headers-2.6.32-45  

Do I need to keep the headers on the computer in order to continue to operate the programs I have installed.

Thank You.
 		 	   		  
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From david.wagle at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 08:35:20 2014
From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 08:35:20 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] A question about dpkg
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W18D8B115FD955F2DFEB09099850@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W18D8B115FD955F2DFEB09099850@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAJdTJyNSWzb16SeJrhcbjxvbqs4HGrqDuHo-1RsmuZk+pEAkRA@mail.gmail.com>

header files are needed for compiling programs and it's a good idea to keep
them around. However, they aren't strictly needed in order run programs
already installed.


On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 11:44 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:

> I have a computer running Ubuntu 10.04 and have removed most of the images
> using the following command in bash     sudo aptitude search linux-image |
> grep -E "^i"
>
> then I updated grub,
>
> I pulled a dpkg -l |less command and here are the results.
>
> ri  linux-headers-2.6.32-45
> 2.6.32-45.104                                   Header files related to
> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-45-generic
> 2.6.32-45.104                                   Linux kernel headers for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-46
> 2.6.32-46.108                                   Header files related to
> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-46-generic
> 2.6.32-46.108                                   Linux kernel headers for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-47
> 2.6.32-47.109                                   Header files related to
> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-47-generic
> 2.6.32-47.109                                   Linux kernel headers for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-48
> 2.6.32-48.110                                   Header files related to
> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-48-generic
> 2.6.32-48.110                                   Linux kernel headers for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-49
> 2.6.32-49.111                                   Header files related to
> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-49-generic
> 2.6.32-49.111                                   Linux kernel headers for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-50
> 2.6.32-50.112                                   Header files related to
> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-50-generic
> 2.6.32-50.112                                   Linux kernel headers for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-51
> 2.6.32-51.113                                   Header files related to
> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-51-generic
> 2.6.32-51.113                                   Linux kernel headers for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-52
> 2.6.32-52.114                                   Header files related to
> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-52-generic
> 2.6.32-52.114                                   Linux kernel headers for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-53
> 2.6.32-53.115                                   Header files related to
> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-53-generic
> 2.6.32-53.115                                   Linux kernel headers for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-54
> 2.6.32-54.116                                   Header files related to
> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-54-generic
> 2.6.32-54.116                                   Linux kernel headers for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-55
> 2.6.32-55.117                                   Header files related to
> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-55-generic
> 2.6.32-55.117                                   Linux kernel headers for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-56
> 2.6.32-56.118                                   Header files related to
> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-56-generic
> 2.6.32-56.118                                   Linux kernel headers for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-57
> 2.6.32-57.119                                   Header files related to
> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-57-generic
> 2.6.32-57.119                                   Linux kernel headers for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
> ii  linux-headers-generic
> 2.6.32.57.64                                    Generic Linux kernel headers
> ii  linux-image-2.6.32-55-generic
> 2.6.32-55.117                                   Linux kernel image for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_64
> ii  linux-image-2.6.32-56-generic
> 2.6.32-56.118                                   Linux kernel image for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_64
> ii  linux-image-2.6.32-57-generic
> 2.6.32-57.119                                   Linux kernel image for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_64
> :
> please help
>
> note the ri   preceding the linux-headers-2.6.32-45
>
> Do I need to keep the headers on the computer in order to continue to
> operate the programs I have installed.
>
> Thank You.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Fri Feb 21 11:45:17 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 11:45:17 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] A question about dpkg
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W18D8B115FD955F2DFEB09099850@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W18D8B115FD955F2DFEB09099850@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402211144260.4083@cockerel.yaron.org>

You cn remove anything that's not for the current kernel version. One of 
my biggest nitpicks with Ubuntu is that it doesn't do that automatically.

Like David said, it's not a bad idea to leave the headers in there.


On Thu, 20 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:

> I have a computer running Ubuntu 10.04 and have removed most of the images
> using the following command in bash???? sudo aptitude search linux-image |
> grep -E "^i"
> 
> then I updated grub,
> 
> I pulled a dpkg -l |less command and here are the results.
> 
> ri? linux-headers-2.6.32-45?????????????
> 2.6.32-45.104?????????????????????????????????? Header files related to
> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-45-generic?????
> 2.6.32-45.104?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel headers for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-46?????????????
> 2.6.32-46.108?????????????????????????????????? Header files related to
> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-46-generic?????
> 2.6.32-46.108?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel headers for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-47?????????????
> 2.6.32-47.109?????????????????????????????????? Header files related to
> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-47-generic?????
> 2.6.32-47.109?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel headers for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-48?????????????
> 2.6.32-48.110?????????????????????????????????? Header files related to
> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-48-generic?????
> 2.6.32-48.110?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel headers for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-49?????????????
> 2.6.32-49.111?????????????????????????????????? Header files related to
> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-49-generic?????
> 2.6.32-49.111?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel headers for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-50?????????????
> 2.6.32-50.112?????????????????????????????????? Header files related to
> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-50-generic?????
> 2.6.32-50.112?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel headers for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-51?????????????
> 2.6.32-51.113?????????????????????????????????? Header files related to
> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-51-generic?????
> 2.6.32-51.113?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel headers for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-52?????????????
> 2.6.32-52.114?????????????????????????????????? Header files related to
> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-52-generic?????
> 2.6.32-52.114?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel headers for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-53?????????????
> 2.6.32-53.115?????????????????????????????????? Header files related to
> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-53-generic?????
> 2.6.32-53.115?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel headers for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-54?????????????
> 2.6.32-54.116?????????????????????????????????? Header files related to
> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-54-generic?????
> 2.6.32-54.116?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel headers for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-55?????????????
> 2.6.32-55.117?????????????????????????????????? Header files related to
> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-55-generic?????
> 2.6.32-55.117?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel headers for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-56?????????????
> 2.6.32-56.118?????????????????????????????????? Header files related to
> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-56-generic?????
> 2.6.32-56.118?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel headers for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-57?????????????
> 2.6.32-57.119?????????????????????????????????? Header files related to
> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-57-generic?????
> 2.6.32-57.119?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel headers for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
> ii? linux-headers-generic???????????????
> 2.6.32.57.64??????????????????????????????????? Generic Linux kernel headers
> ii? linux-image-2.6.32-55-generic???????
> 2.6.32-55.117?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel image for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_64
> ii? linux-image-2.6.32-56-generic???????
> 2.6.32-56.118?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel image for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_64
> ii? linux-image-2.6.32-57-generic???????
> 2.6.32-57.119?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel image for
> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_64
> :
> please help
> 
> note the ri?? preceding the linux-headers-2.6.32-45?
> 
> Do I need to keep the headers on the computer in order to continue to
> operate the programs I have installed.
> 
> Thank You.
> 
>

From jpschewe at mtu.net  Fri Feb 21 13:42:14 2014
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 13:42:14 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Dell server question
Message-ID: <CALpcnozS1fTZXxwF17YD2CiyzjpNzzvciRSWsM2CogdxLDmyvQ@mail.gmail.com>

I know there are a number of Linux sysadmins on this list and I'm trying to
decide if Dell is pulling my chain or not. I've got a Dell R620 server that
we need to do some 3D graphics on.

The onboard graphics card is a Matrox chipset that appears to have very
poor 3D performance under Linux. I asked Dell if I can get a graphics card
in the server that performs better for 3D graphics. Their response was "3rd
party video cards in servers don't support 3D and are only for dual monitor
use at standard VGA resolution".

Can anyone confirm that there's no solution that will provide better 3D
performance in such a machine? I find it hard to believe that the server
somehow disables the 3D support on the card. Although I don't know that
much about video cards and how they talk to the CPU.

Thanks.

Jon

-- 
http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
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From david.wagle at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 13:57:37 2014
From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 13:57:37 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Dell server question
In-Reply-To: <CALpcnozS1fTZXxwF17YD2CiyzjpNzzvciRSWsM2CogdxLDmyvQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALpcnozS1fTZXxwF17YD2CiyzjpNzzvciRSWsM2CogdxLDmyvQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJdTJyOtC0dq3b4LYpRfnuKz2A87U=S1i4xLQ6-F9pAA0G7t7A@mail.gmail.com>

at issue is that the R620 has a 1U profile . . .


On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 1:42 PM, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:

> I know there are a number of Linux sysadmins on this list and I'm trying
> to decide if Dell is pulling my chain or not. I've got a Dell R620 server
> that we need to do some 3D graphics on.
>
> The onboard graphics card is a Matrox chipset that appears to have very
> poor 3D performance under Linux. I asked Dell if I can get a graphics card
> in the server that performs better for 3D graphics. Their response was "3rd
> party video cards in servers don't support 3D and are only for dual monitor
> use at standard VGA resolution".
>
> Can anyone confirm that there's no solution that will provide better 3D
> performance in such a machine? I find it hard to believe that the server
> somehow disables the 3D support on the card. Although I don't know that
> much about video cards and how they talk to the CPU.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jon
>
> --
> http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From david.wagle at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 13:58:15 2014
From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 13:58:15 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Dell server question
In-Reply-To: <CAJdTJyOtC0dq3b4LYpRfnuKz2A87U=S1i4xLQ6-F9pAA0G7t7A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALpcnozS1fTZXxwF17YD2CiyzjpNzzvciRSWsM2CogdxLDmyvQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJdTJyOtC0dq3b4LYpRfnuKz2A87U=S1i4xLQ6-F9pAA0G7t7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJdTJyOa7=B80-HkcQ6nDd0KYsCaacQB7CZYD4+pE6uxrWq2xQ@mail.gmail.com>

And, I might ask - why are you trying to do the graphics processing on the
server and not on the workstation you're using to connect to the server?



On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 1:57 PM, David Wagle <david.wagle at gmail.com> wrote:

> at issue is that the R620 has a 1U profile . . .
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 1:42 PM, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:
>
>> I know there are a number of Linux sysadmins on this list and I'm trying
>> to decide if Dell is pulling my chain or not. I've got a Dell R620 server
>> that we need to do some 3D graphics on.
>>
>> The onboard graphics card is a Matrox chipset that appears to have very
>> poor 3D performance under Linux. I asked Dell if I can get a graphics card
>> in the server that performs better for 3D graphics. Their response was "3rd
>> party video cards in servers don't support 3D and are only for dual monitor
>> use at standard VGA resolution".
>>
>> Can anyone confirm that there's no solution that will provide better 3D
>> performance in such a machine? I find it hard to believe that the server
>> somehow disables the 3D support on the card. Although I don't know that
>> much about video cards and how they talk to the CPU.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>> --
>> http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>
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From jpschewe at mtu.net  Fri Feb 21 14:14:21 2014
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 14:14:21 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Dell server question
In-Reply-To: <CAJdTJyOa7=B80-HkcQ6nDd0KYsCaacQB7CZYD4+pE6uxrWq2xQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALpcnozS1fTZXxwF17YD2CiyzjpNzzvciRSWsM2CogdxLDmyvQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJdTJyOtC0dq3b4LYpRfnuKz2A87U=S1i4xLQ6-F9pAA0G7t7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJdTJyOa7=B80-HkcQ6nDd0KYsCaacQB7CZYD4+pE6uxrWq2xQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALpcnoyX9G4DQV72M8dO=Ft0ChB4od9wt3xgx0xXdV5XbwWptw@mail.gmail.com>

Yes it's a 1U, so that could be a challenge too, but there are cards that
will fit.

As far as why not on the workstation, because the requirements for the
project changed. The server is the workstation as well as the server.


On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 1:58 PM, David Wagle <david.wagle at gmail.com> wrote:

> And, I might ask - why are you trying to do the graphics processing on the
> server and not on the workstation you're using to connect to the server?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 1:57 PM, David Wagle <david.wagle at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> at issue is that the R620 has a 1U profile . . .
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 1:42 PM, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I know there are a number of Linux sysadmins on this list and I'm trying
>>> to decide if Dell is pulling my chain or not. I've got a Dell R620 server
>>> that we need to do some 3D graphics on.
>>>
>>> The onboard graphics card is a Matrox chipset that appears to have very
>>> poor 3D performance under Linux. I asked Dell if I can get a graphics card
>>> in the server that performs better for 3D graphics. Their response was "3rd
>>> party video cards in servers don't support 3D and are only for dual monitor
>>> use at standard VGA resolution".
>>>
>>> Can anyone confirm that there's no solution that will provide better 3D
>>> performance in such a machine? I find it hard to believe that the server
>>> somehow disables the 3D support on the card. Although I don't know that
>>> much about video cards and how they talk to the CPU.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Jon
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>


-- 
http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Fri Feb 21 14:37:38 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 14:37:38 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Dell server question
In-Reply-To: <CALpcnozS1fTZXxwF17YD2CiyzjpNzzvciRSWsM2CogdxLDmyvQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALpcnozS1fTZXxwF17YD2CiyzjpNzzvciRSWsM2CogdxLDmyvQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402211432560.4083@cockerel.yaron.org>

I miss Matrox cards.

I don't know what kind of cards can go in a Dell R620, but (as mentioned) 
it's a 1U chassis and that might limit the kind of cards you can put in 
it. I can see it has a PCI slot, but I can't see if it has a PCI-E slot. 
That will severely limit the kind of cards you can put in there.

If you want to do 3D graphics, you should probably get a machine that's 
dedicated to that. This server probably has other limitations that'll make 
that a pain, other than just the video card. You can probably build a 
half-decent 3D whatever workstation for fairly cheap.

On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, Jon Schewe wrote:

> I know there are a number of Linux sysadmins on this list and I'm trying to
> decide if Dell is pulling my chain or not. I've got a Dell R620 server that
> we need to do some 3D graphics on.?
> The onboard graphics card is a Matrox chipset that appears to have very poor
> 3D performance under Linux. I asked Dell if I can get a graphics card in the
> server that performs better for 3D graphics. Their response was "3rd party
> video cards in servers don't support 3D and are only for dual monitor use at
> standard VGA resolution".
> Can anyone confirm that there's no solution that will provide better 3D
> performance in such a machine? I find it hard to believe that the server
> somehow disables the 3D support on the card. Although I don't know that much
> about video cards and how they talk to the CPU.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Jon
> 
> --
> http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
> 
> 
>

From jpschewe at mtu.net  Fri Feb 21 14:49:18 2014
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 14:49:18 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Dell server question
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402211432560.4083@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <CALpcnozS1fTZXxwF17YD2CiyzjpNzzvciRSWsM2CogdxLDmyvQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402211432560.4083@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <CALpcnoziPEeue1qkFqCa8U5DWjL=bF=f2VMt-u_4HEwXZAMJOw@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, it has PCI-E slots in it.

Yes, I'm aware I could build a 3D workstation fairly cheap. The
requirements of the project make that not an option. I *MUST* use a Dell
rack mounted server and the rack mounted workstations are off-limits.


On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 2:37 PM, <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:

> I miss Matrox cards.
>
> I don't know what kind of cards can go in a Dell R620, but (as mentioned)
> it's a 1U chassis and that might limit the kind of cards you can put in it.
> I can see it has a PCI slot, but I can't see if it has a PCI-E slot. That
> will severely limit the kind of cards you can put in there.
>
> If you want to do 3D graphics, you should probably get a machine that's
> dedicated to that. This server probably has other limitations that'll make
> that a pain, other than just the video card. You can probably build a
> half-decent 3D whatever workstation for fairly cheap.
>
>
> On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, Jon Schewe wrote:
>
>  I know there are a number of Linux sysadmins on this list and I'm trying
>> to
>> decide if Dell is pulling my chain or not. I've got a Dell R620 server
>> that
>> we need to do some 3D graphics on.
>> The onboard graphics card is a Matrox chipset that appears to have very
>> poor
>> 3D performance under Linux. I asked Dell if I can get a graphics card in
>> the
>> server that performs better for 3D graphics. Their response was "3rd party
>> video cards in servers don't support 3D and are only for dual monitor use
>> at
>> standard VGA resolution".
>> Can anyone confirm that there's no solution that will provide better 3D
>> performance in such a machine? I find it hard to believe that the server
>> somehow disables the 3D support on the card. Although I don't know that
>> much
>> about video cards and how they talk to the CPU.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>> --
>> http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>


-- 
http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Fri Feb 21 15:02:09 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 15:02:09 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Dell server question
In-Reply-To: <CALpcnoziPEeue1qkFqCa8U5DWjL=bF=f2VMt-u_4HEwXZAMJOw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALpcnozS1fTZXxwF17YD2CiyzjpNzzvciRSWsM2CogdxLDmyvQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402211432560.4083@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CALpcnoziPEeue1qkFqCa8U5DWjL=bF=f2VMt-u_4HEwXZAMJOw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402211501430.4083@cockerel.yaron.org>

Well, I saw grab a PCI-E video card you happen to have lying around and 
put it in there, and see what happens (:


On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, Jon Schewe wrote:

> Yes, it has PCI-E slots in it.
> Yes, I'm aware I could build a 3D workstation fairly cheap. The requirements
> of the project make that not an option. I *MUST* use a Dell rack mounted
> server and the rack mounted workstations are off-limits.
> 
> 
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 2:37 PM, <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
>       I miss Matrox cards.
>
>       I don't know what kind of cards can go in a Dell R620, but (as
>       mentioned) it's a 1U chassis and that might limit the kind of
>       cards you can put in it. I can see it has a PCI slot, but I
>       can't see if it has a PCI-E slot. That will severely limit the
>       kind of cards you can put in there.
>
>       If you want to do 3D graphics, you should probably get a machine
>       that's dedicated to that. This server probably has other
>       limitations that'll make that a pain, other than just the video
>       card. You can probably build a half-decent 3D whatever
>       workstation for fairly cheap.
>
>       On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, Jon Schewe wrote:
>
>             I know there are a number of Linux sysadmins on this
>             list and I'm trying to
>             decide if Dell is pulling my chain or not. I've got
>             a Dell R620 server that
>             we need to do some 3D graphics on.?
>             The onboard graphics card is a Matrox chipset that
>             appears to have very poor
>             3D performance under Linux. I asked Dell if I can
>             get a graphics card in the
>             server that performs better for 3D graphics. Their
>             response was "3rd party
>             video cards in servers don't support 3D and are only
>             for dual monitor use at
>             standard VGA resolution".
>             Can anyone confirm that there's no solution that
>             will provide better 3D
>             performance in such a machine? I find it hard to
>             believe that the server
>             somehow disables the 3D support on the card.
>             Although I don't know that much
>             about video cards and how they talk to the CPU.
>
>             Thanks.
>
>             Jon
>
>             --
>             http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
> 
> 
>

From david.wagle at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 15:24:09 2014
From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 15:24:09 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Dell server question
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402211501430.4083@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <CALpcnozS1fTZXxwF17YD2CiyzjpNzzvciRSWsM2CogdxLDmyvQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402211432560.4083@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CALpcnoziPEeue1qkFqCa8U5DWjL=bF=f2VMt-u_4HEwXZAMJOw@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402211501430.4083@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <CAJdTJyMFBzCW3rpxDmTi4B7FNnuf3y56O53RgOxZmnEMjfzTWQ@mail.gmail.com>

A couple of thoughts: 1) frequently the PCI-E slot on a server is taken up
by a raid card or other storage controller. 2) does anyone make a 3D pci-e
or pci-x card that fits in a 1U unit? I don't think I've ever seen one.


On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 3:02 PM, <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:

> Well, I saw grab a PCI-E video card you happen to have lying around and
> put it in there, and see what happens (:
>
>
>
> On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, Jon Schewe wrote:
>
>  Yes, it has PCI-E slots in it.
>> Yes, I'm aware I could build a 3D workstation fairly cheap. The
>> requirements
>> of the project make that not an option. I *MUST* use a Dell rack mounted
>> server and the rack mounted workstations are off-limits.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 2:37 PM, <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
>>       I miss Matrox cards.
>>
>>       I don't know what kind of cards can go in a Dell R620, but (as
>>       mentioned) it's a 1U chassis and that might limit the kind of
>>       cards you can put in it. I can see it has a PCI slot, but I
>>       can't see if it has a PCI-E slot. That will severely limit the
>>       kind of cards you can put in there.
>>
>>       If you want to do 3D graphics, you should probably get a machine
>>       that's dedicated to that. This server probably has other
>>       limitations that'll make that a pain, other than just the video
>>       card. You can probably build a half-decent 3D whatever
>>       workstation for fairly cheap.
>>
>>       On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, Jon Schewe wrote:
>>
>>             I know there are a number of Linux sysadmins on this
>>             list and I'm trying to
>>             decide if Dell is pulling my chain or not. I've got
>>             a Dell R620 server that
>>             we need to do some 3D graphics on.
>>             The onboard graphics card is a Matrox chipset that
>>             appears to have very poor
>>             3D performance under Linux. I asked Dell if I can
>>             get a graphics card in the
>>             server that performs better for 3D graphics. Their
>>             response was "3rd party
>>             video cards in servers don't support 3D and are only
>>             for dual monitor use at
>>             standard VGA resolution".
>>             Can anyone confirm that there's no solution that
>>             will provide better 3D
>>             performance in such a machine? I find it hard to
>>             believe that the server
>>             somehow disables the 3D support on the card.
>>             Although I don't know that much
>>             about video cards and how they talk to the CPU.
>>
>>             Thanks.
>>
>>             Jon
>>
>>             --
>>             http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From tclug at beitsahour.net  Fri Feb 21 15:56:39 2014
From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 15:56:39 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Dell server question
In-Reply-To: <CALpcnozS1fTZXxwF17YD2CiyzjpNzzvciRSWsM2CogdxLDmyvQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALpcnozS1fTZXxwF17YD2CiyzjpNzzvciRSWsM2CogdxLDmyvQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMg8xatGuVa9ghXj9Es8wY_C+6ZqDPo5D8tANMSJS8U-F_Lo+Q@mail.gmail.com>

The problem is most likely twofold,
1. Space, modern GPUs are big and bulky, mostly due to the heatsinks.
1.5 heat dissipation due to the space constraints.
2. power, most server platforms are not equipped with the additional
power output(PCIe power rails) to support a GPU. You will also want a
power supply that delivers up to 500W/GPU. Even when you have dual
power supplies on those servers, the power supplies are redundant and
not cumulative.

I have not used the R620s, but i know the R720 does support GPUs(i use
them in this fashion) only if you use the 1100W power supplies rather
than the 750W default power supplies.

That all said, i am sure you can find a budget GPU that uses an older
core. both nvidia and amd sell budget video cards reusing their older
technology. Older cores on modern cards are less power hungry and can
be built with smaller heat sinks and without the need for extra
power(be fully powered by the PCIe bus).


On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 1:42 PM, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:
> I know there are a number of Linux sysadmins on this list and I'm trying to
> decide if Dell is pulling my chain or not. I've got a Dell R620 server that
> we need to do some 3D graphics on.
>
> The onboard graphics card is a Matrox chipset that appears to have very poor
> 3D performance under Linux. I asked Dell if I can get a graphics card in the
> server that performs better for 3D graphics. Their response was "3rd party
> video cards in servers don't support 3D and are only for dual monitor use at
> standard VGA resolution".
>
> Can anyone confirm that there's no solution that will provide better 3D
> performance in such a machine? I find it hard to believe that the server
> somehow disables the 3D support on the card. Although I don't know that much
> about video cards and how they talk to the CPU.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jon
>
> --
> http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From gsker at skerbitz.org  Fri Feb 21 18:50:28 2014
From: gsker at skerbitz.org (gsker)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 18:50:28 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] A question about dpkg
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402211144260.4083@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <BAY175-W18D8B115FD955F2DFEB09099850@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402211144260.4083@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402211245420.5699@thealeph.net>

I find
    sudo aptitude purge '~i2.6.32-57'
is a good way to select the right packages.
I often do things like.
     sudo aptitude purge '~i3.0.8-2[459]'

That takes care of all the headers and images and -generic and -kernel and 
-virtual....

Someone posted a really nice one that used the uname output very nicely 
but I've lost it. Probably one of these:
http://www.commandlinefu.com/commands/view/5829/remove-all-unused-kernels-with-apt-get

If you catch yourself doing an aptitude search piped to grep you're 
probably doing it wrong.

You would catch yourself doing that for a a good reason (IMHO) -- the 
documentation for the very powerful search is a rather inscrutable.

As to Ubuntu not cleaning up kernels.....

There actually is an autoremove. I don't know how I enabled it, 
but there are remnants that give me a clue:

gsker at veeta:~/mail> dpkg -S /etc/kernel/postinst.d/apt-auto-removal
apt: /etc/kernel/postinst.d/apt-auto-removal

and /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01autoremove-kernels

I catch it removing kernel packages once in a while.  :-)

FWIW

On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:

> You cn remove anything that's not for the current kernel version. One of my 
> biggest nitpicks with Ubuntu is that it doesn't do that automatically.
>
> Like David said, it's not a bad idea to leave the headers in there.
>
>
> On Thu, 20 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
>
>> I have a computer running Ubuntu 10.04 and have removed most of the images
>> using the following command in bash???? sudo aptitude search linux-image |
>> grep -E "^i"
>> 
>> then I updated grub,
>> 
>> I pulled a dpkg -l |less command and here are the results.
>> 
>> ri? linux-headers-2.6.32-45?????????????
>> 2.6.32-45.104?????????????????????????????????? Header files related to
>> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
>> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-45-generic?????
>> 2.6.32-45.104?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel headers for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
>> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-46?????????????
>> 2.6.32-46.108?????????????????????????????????? Header files related to
>> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
>> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-46-generic?????
>> 2.6.32-46.108?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel headers for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
>> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-47?????????????
>> 2.6.32-47.109?????????????????????????????????? Header files related to
>> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
>> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-47-generic?????
>> 2.6.32-47.109?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel headers for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
>> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-48?????????????
>> 2.6.32-48.110?????????????????????????????????? Header files related to
>> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
>> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-48-generic?????
>> 2.6.32-48.110?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel headers for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
>> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-49?????????????
>> 2.6.32-49.111?????????????????????????????????? Header files related to
>> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
>> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-49-generic?????
>> 2.6.32-49.111?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel headers for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
>> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-50?????????????
>> 2.6.32-50.112?????????????????????????????????? Header files related to
>> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
>> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-50-generic?????
>> 2.6.32-50.112?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel headers for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
>> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-51?????????????
>> 2.6.32-51.113?????????????????????????????????? Header files related to
>> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
>> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-51-generic?????
>> 2.6.32-51.113?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel headers for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
>> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-52?????????????
>> 2.6.32-52.114?????????????????????????????????? Header files related to
>> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
>> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-52-generic?????
>> 2.6.32-52.114?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel headers for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
>> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-53?????????????
>> 2.6.32-53.115?????????????????????????????????? Header files related to
>> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
>> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-53-generic?????
>> 2.6.32-53.115?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel headers for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
>> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-54?????????????
>> 2.6.32-54.116?????????????????????????????????? Header files related to
>> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
>> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-54-generic?????
>> 2.6.32-54.116?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel headers for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
>> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-55?????????????
>> 2.6.32-55.117?????????????????????????????????? Header files related to
>> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
>> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-55-generic?????
>> 2.6.32-55.117?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel headers for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
>> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-56?????????????
>> 2.6.32-56.118?????????????????????????????????? Header files related to
>> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
>> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-56-generic?????
>> 2.6.32-56.118?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel headers for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
>> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-57?????????????
>> 2.6.32-57.119?????????????????????????????????? Header files related to
>> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
>> ii? linux-headers-2.6.32-57-generic?????
>> 2.6.32-57.119?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel headers for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
>> ii? linux-headers-generic???????????????
>> 2.6.32.57.64??????????????????????????????????? Generic Linux kernel 
>> headers
>> ii? linux-image-2.6.32-55-generic???????
>> 2.6.32-55.117?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel image for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_64
>> ii? linux-image-2.6.32-56-generic???????
>> 2.6.32-56.118?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel image for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_64
>> ii? linux-image-2.6.32-57-generic???????
>> 2.6.32-57.119?????????????????????????????????? Linux kernel image for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_64
>> :
>> please help
>> 
>> note the ri?? preceding the linux-headers-2.6.32-45?
>> 
>> Do I need to keep the headers on the computer in order to continue to
>> operate the programs I have installed.
>> 
>> Thank You.
>> 
>

From pj.world at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 21 19:10:16 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 19:10:16 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] A question about dpkg
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402211245420.5699@thealeph.net>
References: <BAY175-W18D8B115FD955F2DFEB09099850@phx.gbl>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402211144260.4083@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402211245420.5699@thealeph.net>
Message-ID: <BAY175-W11D1665AD9E93BA8871E6A99840@phx.gbl>

Since I am not a pro like you guys etc. would it be acceptable to leave the 'headers' in apt 'or are they just wasting space' since I now have only 2 kernel images on the computer? I suppose I should have started by using the 'purge' command right from the start.

Thank you for your help.

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 18:50:28 -0600
From: gsker at skerbitz.org
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about dpkg

I find
    sudo aptitude purge '~i2.6.32-57'
is a good way to select the right packages.
I often do things like.
     sudo aptitude purge '~i3.0.8-2[459]'
 
That takes care of all the headers and images and -generic and -kernel and 
-virtual....
 
Someone posted a really nice one that used the uname output very nicely 
but I've lost it. Probably one of these:
http://www.commandlinefu.com/commands/view/5829/remove-all-unused-kernels-with-apt-get
 
If you catch yourself doing an aptitude search piped to grep you're 
probably doing it wrong.
 
You would catch yourself doing that for a a good reason (IMHO) -- the 
documentation for the very powerful search is a rather inscrutable.
 
As to Ubuntu not cleaning up kernels.....
 
There actually is an autoremove. I don't know how I enabled it, 
but there are remnants that give me a clue:
 
gsker at veeta:~/mail> dpkg -S /etc/kernel/postinst.d/apt-auto-removal
apt: /etc/kernel/postinst.d/apt-auto-removal
 
and /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01autoremove-kernels
 
I catch it removing kernel packages once in a while.  :-)
 
FWIW
 
On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
 
> You cn remove anything that's not for the current kernel version. One of my 
> biggest nitpicks with Ubuntu is that it doesn't do that automatically.
>
> Like David said, it's not a bad idea to leave the headers in there.
>
>
> On Thu, 20 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
>
>> I have a computer running Ubuntu 10.04 and have removed most of the images
>> using the following command in bash     sudo aptitude search linux-image |
>> grep -E "^i"
>> 
>> then I updated grub,
>> 
>> I pulled a dpkg -l |less command and here are the results.
>> 
>> ri  linux-headers-2.6.32-45             
>> 2.6.32-45.104                                   Header files related to
>> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
>> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-45-generic     
>> 2.6.32-45.104                                   Linux kernel headers for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
>> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-46             
>> 2.6.32-46.108                                   Header files related to
>> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
>> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-46-generic     
>> 2.6.32-46.108                                   Linux kernel headers for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
>> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-47             
>> 2.6.32-47.109                                   Header files related to
>> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
>> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-47-generic     
>> 2.6.32-47.109                                   Linux kernel headers for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
>> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-48             
>> 2.6.32-48.110                                   Header files related to
>> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
>> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-48-generic     
>> 2.6.32-48.110                                   Linux kernel headers for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
>> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-49             
>> 2.6.32-49.111                                   Header files related to
>> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
>> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-49-generic     
>> 2.6.32-49.111                                   Linux kernel headers for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
>> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-50             
>> 2.6.32-50.112                                   Header files related to
>> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
>> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-50-generic     
>> 2.6.32-50.112                                   Linux kernel headers for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
>> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-51             
>> 2.6.32-51.113                                   Header files related to
>> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
>> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-51-generic     
>> 2.6.32-51.113                                   Linux kernel headers for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
>> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-52             
>> 2.6.32-52.114                                   Header files related to
>> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
>> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-52-generic     
>> 2.6.32-52.114                                   Linux kernel headers for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
>> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-53             
>> 2.6.32-53.115                                   Header files related to
>> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
>> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-53-generic     
>> 2.6.32-53.115                                   Linux kernel headers for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
>> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-54             
>> 2.6.32-54.116                                   Header files related to
>> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
>> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-54-generic     
>> 2.6.32-54.116                                   Linux kernel headers for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
>> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-55             
>> 2.6.32-55.117                                   Header files related to
>> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
>> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-55-generic     
>> 2.6.32-55.117                                   Linux kernel headers for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
>> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-56             
>> 2.6.32-56.118                                   Header files related to
>> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
>> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-56-generic     
>> 2.6.32-56.118                                   Linux kernel headers for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
>> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-57             
>> 2.6.32-57.119                                   Header files related to
>> Linux kernel version 2.6.32
>> ii  linux-headers-2.6.32-57-generic     
>> 2.6.32-57.119                                   Linux kernel headers for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_
>> ii  linux-headers-generic               
>> 2.6.32.57.64                                    Generic Linux kernel 
>> headers
>> ii  linux-image-2.6.32-55-generic       
>> 2.6.32-55.117                                   Linux kernel image for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_64
>> ii  linux-image-2.6.32-56-generic       
>> 2.6.32-56.118                                   Linux kernel image for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_64
>> ii  linux-image-2.6.32-57-generic       
>> 2.6.32-57.119                                   Linux kernel image for
>> version 2.6.32 on x86/x86_64
>> :
>> please help
>> 
>> note the ri   preceding the linux-headers-2.6.32-45 
>> 
>> Do I need to keep the headers on the computer in order to continue to
>> operate the programs I have installed.
>> 
>> Thank You.
>> 
>

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 		 	   		  
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From pj.world at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 21 20:19:26 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:19:26 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
Message-ID: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>

For a basic home/office computer user running an older FireFox version say '20.0' under Ubuntu 10.04 etc '2.6.-- kernel' will new web pages and webpage design soon require the need for a later version of FireFox or Opera to 'surf' the web? Just a curious question I am a noob.

Thank You.
 		 	   		  
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Fri Feb 21 20:24:28 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:24:28 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>

Might be some small things that won't work, but in general you should be 
fine.

Of course, as time goes on, those small things will get bigger and bigger. 
Still, basic HTML with basic javascript should be fine for a long time. It 
all depends on what kind of content you want.

May I ask why you're running such an old version of Ubuntu?

On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:

> For a basic home/office computer user running an older FireFox version say
> '20.0' under Ubuntu 10.04 etc '2.6.-- kernel' will new web pages and webpage
> design soon require the need for a later version of FireFox or Opera to
> 'surf' the web? Just a curious question I am a noob.
> 
> Thank You.
> 
>

From pj.world at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 21 20:30:31 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:30:31 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <BAY175-W57B5A3309942CF64D342599840@phx.gbl>

Yes, and thank you for asking. I am running this older version of Ubuntu on a Centrino Duo Laptop. I guess because I was so unimpressed with the 12.04 performance on my old p4 tower. Also I have an older Lexmark x5070 printer that has a driver for the 10.04 Ubuntu. I don't like Gnome 3 maybe i'm just slow and I am not really used to KDE. Any suggestions would be wonderful.

Thank You.

> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:24:28 -0600
> From: tclug at freakzilla.com
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
> 
> Might be some small things that won't work, but in general you should be 
> fine.
> 
> Of course, as time goes on, those small things will get bigger and bigger. 
> Still, basic HTML with basic javascript should be fine for a long time. It 
> all depends on what kind of content you want.
> 
> May I ask why you're running such an old version of Ubuntu?
> 
> On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
> 
> > For a basic home/office computer user running an older FireFox version say
> > '20.0' under Ubuntu 10.04 etc '2.6.-- kernel' will new web pages and webpage
> > design soon require the need for a later version of FireFox or Opera to
> > 'surf' the web? Just a curious question I am a noob.
> > 
> > Thank You.
> > 
> >
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
 		 	   		  
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Fri Feb 21 20:38:26 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:38:26 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W57B5A3309942CF64D342599840@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W57B5A3309942CF64D342599840@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212033040.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>

I don't know that they'd remove a printer driver...

I've been using Ubuntu for many years, but I've never used Gnome, Unity or 
KDE (I use Window Maker, as I have since 1996!). I'm lead to believe you 
can get the "Classic" Gnome on the newer Ubuntus. It was announced very 
recently that they're turning back from that stupid integrated menubar 
thing, too.

If you have the resources to make a bit-by-bit copy of your harddrive, you 
can always try upgrading and then downgrade back if you don't like it. I'd 
say try a live install on a USB thumbdrive, but that will for SURE be 
slow.

On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:

> Yes, and thank you for asking. I am running this older version of Ubuntu on
> a Centrino Duo Laptop. I guess because I was so unimpressed with the 12.04
> performance on my old p4 tower. Also I have an older Lexmark x5070 printer
> that has a driver for the 10.04 Ubuntu. I don't like Gnome 3 maybe i'm just
> slow and I am not really used to KDE. Any suggestions would be wonderful.
> 
> Thank You.
> 
> > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:24:28 -0600
> > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
> > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
> >
> > Might be some small things that won't work, but in general you should be
> > fine.
> >
> > Of course, as time goes on, those small things will get bigger and bigger.
> > Still, basic HTML with basic javascript should be fine for a long time. It
> > all depends on what kind of content you want.
> >
> > May I ask why you're running such an old version of Ubuntu?
> >
> > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
> >
> > > For a basic home/office computer user running an older FireFox version
> say
> > > '20.0' under Ubuntu 10.04 etc '2.6.-- kernel' will new web pages and
> webpage
> > > design soon require the need for a later version of FireFox or Opera to
> > > 'surf' the web? Just a curious question I am a noob.
> > >
> > > Thank You.
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
>

From pj.world at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 21 20:46:48 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:46:48 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212033040.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>, ,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <BAY175-W57B5A3309942CF64D342599840@phx.gbl>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212033040.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <BAY175-W517F0BCE1DB5370D3BFB8999840@phx.gbl>

You know I dabbled a bit with OpenSUSE. I just don't have the experience with windows managers. I even set-up a sli-taz machine. I really need nothing off the computer but I like the fact that the 10.04 is so well documented , yes I know it's old I guess it gives me a noober a sense of comfort somehow that I do just not get with the latest releases. The 'dd' command works fine for me. I even recently learned that in order to install Debian Wheezy 7.0 or whatnot I needed to partition the thumb drive for MS-Dos 16 not Fat32 to copy the image. Any reccomendations for a noob like me as far as a newer operating system on my laptop would be wonderful. Thank you for your time I wish I knew more.

Thank You.

> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:38:26 -0600
> From: tclug at freakzilla.com
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
> 
> I don't know that they'd remove a printer driver...
> 
> I've been using Ubuntu for many years, but I've never used Gnome, Unity or 
> KDE (I use Window Maker, as I have since 1996!). I'm lead to believe you 
> can get the "Classic" Gnome on the newer Ubuntus. It was announced very 
> recently that they're turning back from that stupid integrated menubar 
> thing, too.
> 
> If you have the resources to make a bit-by-bit copy of your harddrive, you 
> can always try upgrading and then downgrade back if you don't like it. I'd 
> say try a live install on a USB thumbdrive, but that will for SURE be 
> slow.
> 
> On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
> 
> > Yes, and thank you for asking. I am running this older version of Ubuntu on
> > a Centrino Duo Laptop. I guess because I was so unimpressed with the 12.04
> > performance on my old p4 tower. Also I have an older Lexmark x5070 printer
> > that has a driver for the 10.04 Ubuntu. I don't like Gnome 3 maybe i'm just
> > slow and I am not really used to KDE. Any suggestions would be wonderful.
> > 
> > Thank You.
> > 
> > > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:24:28 -0600
> > > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
> > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
> > >
> > > Might be some small things that won't work, but in general you should be
> > > fine.
> > >
> > > Of course, as time goes on, those small things will get bigger and bigger.
> > > Still, basic HTML with basic javascript should be fine for a long time. It
> > > all depends on what kind of content you want.
> > >
> > > May I ask why you're running such an old version of Ubuntu?
> > >
> > > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
> > >
> > > > For a basic home/office computer user running an older FireFox version
> > say
> > > > '20.0' under Ubuntu 10.04 etc '2.6.-- kernel' will new web pages and
> > webpage
> > > > design soon require the need for a later version of FireFox or Opera to
> > > > 'surf' the web? Just a curious question I am a noob.
> > > >
> > > > Thank You.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > 
> >
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
 		 	   		  
-------------- next part --------------
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Fri Feb 21 20:59:49 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:59:49 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W517F0BCE1DB5370D3BFB8999840@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>, ,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <BAY175-W57B5A3309942CF64D342599840@phx.gbl>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212033040.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W517F0BCE1DB5370D3BFB8999840@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212048520.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>

I've... not heard that about debian. I've always used fat32 for any Linux 
distro I've put on a thumb drive.

You can download the ISO for the latest Ubuntu Desktop and use unetbootin 
to install it on a thumbdrive - that should give you the live distro.

On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:

> You know I dabbled a bit with OpenSUSE. I just don't have the experience
> with windows managers. I even set-up a sli-taz machine. I really need
> nothing off the computer but I like the fact that the 10.04 is so well
> documented , yes I know it's old I guess it gives me a noober a sense of
> comfort somehow that I do just not get with the latest releases. The 'dd'
> command works fine for me. I even recently learned that in order to install
> Debian Wheezy 7.0 or whatnot I needed to partition the thumb drive for
> MS-Dos 16 not Fat32 to copy the image. Any reccomendations for a noob like
> me as far as a newer operating system on my laptop would be wonderful. Thank
> you for your time I wish I knew more.
> 
> Thank You.
> 
> > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:38:26 -0600
> > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
> > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
> >
> > I don't know that they'd remove a printer driver...
> >
> > I've been using Ubuntu for many years, but I've never used Gnome, Unity or
> > KDE (I use Window Maker, as I have since 1996!). I'm lead to believe you
> > can get the "Classic" Gnome on the newer Ubuntus. It was announced very
> > recently that they're turning back from that stupid integrated menubar
> > thing, too.
> >
> > If you have the resources to make a bit-by-bit copy of your harddrive, you
> > can always try upgrading and then downgrade back if you don't like it. I'd
> > say try a live install on a USB thumbdrive, but that will for SURE be
> > slow.
> >
> > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
> >
> > > Yes, and thank you for asking. I am running this older version of Ubuntu
> on
> > > a Centrino Duo Laptop. I guess because I was so unimpressed with the
> 12.04
> > > performance on my old p4 tower. Also I have an older Lexmark x5070
> printer
> > > that has a driver for the 10.04 Ubuntu. I don't like Gnome 3 maybe i'm
> just
> > > slow and I am not really used to KDE. Any suggestions would be
> wonderful.
> > >
> > > Thank You.
> > >
> > > > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:24:28 -0600
> > > > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
> > > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic
> use?
> > > >
> > > > Might be some small things that won't work, but in general you should
> be
> > > > fine.
> > > >
> > > > Of course, as time goes on, those small things will get bigger and
> bigger.
> > > > Still, basic HTML with basic javascript should be fine for a long
> time. It
> > > > all depends on what kind of content you want.
> > > >
> > > > May I ask why you're running such an old version of Ubuntu?
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > For a basic home/office computer user running an older FireFox
> version
> > > say
> > > > > '20.0' under Ubuntu 10.04 etc '2.6.-- kernel' will new web pages and
> > > webpage
> > > > > design soon require the need for a later version of FireFox or Opera
> to
> > > > > 'surf' the web? Just a curious question I am a noob.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank You.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
>

From david.wagle at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 21:01:06 2014
From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:01:06 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W517F0BCE1DB5370D3BFB8999840@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W57B5A3309942CF64D342599840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212033040.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W517F0BCE1DB5370D3BFB8999840@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAJdTJyP9t1tRWSGJxb4H3q73YcdymvSGGWBHN8=kU_YYwvxsag@mail.gmail.com>

The issue with performance in Ubuntu is almost entirely due to the window
manager and has really nothing to do with the other software versions. You
can keep the  core "ubuntu" elements the same and  upgrade the rest of the
software quite easily.

Alternately, you can try something more lightweight -- Mint 16 with Xfce is
basically Ubunutu with a a lightweight desktop. That's what I run on my
daughter's very ancient Macbook and it's actually quite zippy


On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 8:46 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:

> You know I dabbled a bit with OpenSUSE. I just don't have the experience
> with windows managers. I even set-up a sli-taz machine. I really need
> nothing off the computer but I like the fact that the 10.04 is so well
> documented , yes I know it's old I guess it gives me a noober a sense of
> comfort somehow that I do just not get with the latest releases. The 'dd'
> command works fine for me. I even recently learned that in order to install
> Debian Wheezy 7.0 or whatnot I needed to partition the thumb drive for
> MS-Dos 16 not Fat32 to copy the image. Any reccomendations for a noob like
> me as far as a newer operating system on my laptop would be wonderful.
> Thank you for your time I wish I knew more.
>
> Thank You.
>
> > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:38:26 -0600
>
> > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
> > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic
> use?
> >
> > I don't know that they'd remove a printer driver...
> >
> > I've been using Ubuntu for many years, but I've never used Gnome, Unity
> or
> > KDE (I use Window Maker, as I have since 1996!). I'm lead to believe you
> > can get the "Classic" Gnome on the newer Ubuntus. It was announced very
> > recently that they're turning back from that stupid integrated menubar
> > thing, too.
> >
> > If you have the resources to make a bit-by-bit copy of your harddrive,
> you
> > can always try upgrading and then downgrade back if you don't like it.
> I'd
> > say try a live install on a USB thumbdrive, but that will for SURE be
> > slow.
> >
> > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
> >
> > > Yes, and thank you for asking. I am running this older version of
> Ubuntu on
> > > a Centrino Duo Laptop. I guess because I was so unimpressed with the
> 12.04
> > > performance on my old p4 tower. Also I have an older Lexmark x5070
> printer
> > > that has a driver for the 10.04 Ubuntu. I don't like Gnome 3 maybe i'm
> just
> > > slow and I am not really used to KDE. Any suggestions would be
> wonderful.
> > >
> > > Thank You.
> > >
> > > > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:24:28 -0600
> > > > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
> > > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for
> basic use?
> > > >
> > > > Might be some small things that won't work, but in general you
> should be
> > > > fine.
> > > >
> > > > Of course, as time goes on, those small things will get bigger and
> bigger.
> > > > Still, basic HTML with basic javascript should be fine for a long
> time. It
> > > > all depends on what kind of content you want.
> > > >
> > > > May I ask why you're running such an old version of Ubuntu?
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > For a basic home/office computer user running an older FireFox
> version
> > > say
> > > > > '20.0' under Ubuntu 10.04 etc '2.6.-- kernel' will new web pages
> and
> > > webpage
> > > > > design soon require the need for a later version of FireFox or
> Opera to
> > > > > 'surf' the web? Just a curious question I am a noob.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank You.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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From david.wagle at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 21:04:44 2014
From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:04:44 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <CAJdTJyP9t1tRWSGJxb4H3q73YcdymvSGGWBHN8=kU_YYwvxsag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W57B5A3309942CF64D342599840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212033040.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W517F0BCE1DB5370D3BFB8999840@phx.gbl>
 <CAJdTJyP9t1tRWSGJxb4H3q73YcdymvSGGWBHN8=kU_YYwvxsag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJdTJyPPp3-JDvqQbVj0ORLat0eDU_eogWfQs6g34hK+GtiV3g@mail.gmail.com>

Alternately, if you want to put in the work to not be a noob any longer,
you could take the plunge into an Arch distribution. It's actually not as
hard as it might seem at first, and you will be guaranteed to end up with
the most efficient system you can build on that box :)


On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 9:01 PM, David Wagle <david.wagle at gmail.com> wrote:

> The issue with performance in Ubuntu is almost entirely due to the window
> manager and has really nothing to do with the other software versions. You
> can keep the  core "ubuntu" elements the same and  upgrade the rest of the
> software quite easily.
>
> Alternately, you can try something more lightweight -- Mint 16 with Xfce
> is basically Ubunutu with a a lightweight desktop. That's what I run on my
> daughter's very ancient Macbook and it's actually quite zippy
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 8:46 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> You know I dabbled a bit with OpenSUSE. I just don't have the experience
>> with windows managers. I even set-up a sli-taz machine. I really need
>> nothing off the computer but I like the fact that the 10.04 is so well
>> documented , yes I know it's old I guess it gives me a noober a sense of
>> comfort somehow that I do just not get with the latest releases. The 'dd'
>> command works fine for me. I even recently learned that in order to install
>> Debian Wheezy 7.0 or whatnot I needed to partition the thumb drive for
>> MS-Dos 16 not Fat32 to copy the image. Any reccomendations for a noob like
>> me as far as a newer operating system on my laptop would be wonderful.
>> Thank you for your time I wish I knew more.
>>
>> Thank You.
>>
>> > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:38:26 -0600
>>
>> > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
>> > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic
>> use?
>> >
>> > I don't know that they'd remove a printer driver...
>> >
>> > I've been using Ubuntu for many years, but I've never used Gnome, Unity
>> or
>> > KDE (I use Window Maker, as I have since 1996!). I'm lead to believe
>> you
>> > can get the "Classic" Gnome on the newer Ubuntus. It was announced very
>> > recently that they're turning back from that stupid integrated menubar
>> > thing, too.
>> >
>> > If you have the resources to make a bit-by-bit copy of your harddrive,
>> you
>> > can always try upgrading and then downgrade back if you don't like it.
>> I'd
>> > say try a live install on a USB thumbdrive, but that will for SURE be
>> > slow.
>> >
>> > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
>> >
>> > > Yes, and thank you for asking. I am running this older version of
>> Ubuntu on
>> > > a Centrino Duo Laptop. I guess because I was so unimpressed with the
>> 12.04
>> > > performance on my old p4 tower. Also I have an older Lexmark x5070
>> printer
>> > > that has a driver for the 10.04 Ubuntu. I don't like Gnome 3 maybe
>> i'm just
>> > > slow and I am not really used to KDE. Any suggestions would be
>> wonderful.
>> > >
>> > > Thank You.
>> > >
>> > > > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:24:28 -0600
>> > > > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
>> > > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> > > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for
>> basic use?
>> > > >
>> > > > Might be some small things that won't work, but in general you
>> should be
>> > > > fine.
>> > > >
>> > > > Of course, as time goes on, those small things will get bigger and
>> bigger.
>> > > > Still, basic HTML with basic javascript should be fine for a long
>> time. It
>> > > > all depends on what kind of content you want.
>> > > >
>> > > > May I ask why you're running such an old version of Ubuntu?
>> > > >
>> > > > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > For a basic home/office computer user running an older FireFox
>> version
>> > > say
>> > > > > '20.0' under Ubuntu 10.04 etc '2.6.-- kernel' will new web pages
>> and
>> > > webpage
>> > > > > design soon require the need for a later version of FireFox or
>> Opera to
>> > > > > 'surf' the web? Just a curious question I am a noob.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Thank You.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> > > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> > >
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Fri Feb 21 21:12:01 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:12:01 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <CAJdTJyPPp3-JDvqQbVj0ORLat0eDU_eogWfQs6g34hK+GtiV3g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W57B5A3309942CF64D342599840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212033040.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W517F0BCE1DB5370D3BFB8999840@phx.gbl>
 <CAJdTJyP9t1tRWSGJxb4H3q73YcdymvSGGWBHN8=kU_YYwvxsag@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJdTJyPPp3-JDvqQbVj0ORLat0eDU_eogWfQs6g34hK+GtiV3g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212106350.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>

Sorry, no. That's like me saying "I'm a new driver maybe I should try 
driving stick" and you suggesting I build an F-18 from scratch and then 
drop off a cliff with it.

I've been using Linux since before there were distributions, and there's a 
reason I use Ubuntu. I can get it to do what I want WITHOUT wanting to 
shoot myself.

I've always thought Arch was interesting, and a bit ago decided to give it 
a try. So I set up a VM, pointed it at the Arch installaiton medium and 
watched it not even be able to get past it's own setup.

You can be an extremely skilled Linux user (and UNIX admin) without ever 
touching anything like Arch. It helps to know how to build your own stuff, 
of course, and knowing the internals, but, again, that's like asking a 
mechanic to manufacture parts themselves.


On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, David Wagle wrote:

> Alternately, if you want to put in the work to not be a noob any longer, you
> could take the plunge into an Arch distribution. It's actually not as hard
> as it might seem at first, and you will be guaranteed to end up with the
> most efficient system you can build on that box :)
> 
> 
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 9:01 PM, David Wagle <david.wagle at gmail.com> wrote:
>       The issue with performance in Ubuntu is almost entirely due to
>       the window manager and has really nothing to do with the other
>       software versions. You can keep the ?core "ubuntu" elements the
>       same and ?upgrade the rest of the software quite easily.?
> Alternately, you can try something more lightweight -- Mint 16 with
> Xfce is basically Ubunutu with a a lightweight desktop. That's what I
> run on my daughter's very ancient Macbook and it's actually quite
> zippy
> 
> 
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 8:46 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
>       You know I dabbled a bit with OpenSUSE. I just don't have
>       the experience with windows managers. I even set-up a
>       sli-taz machine. I really need nothing off the computer
>       but I like the fact that the 10.04 is so well documented ,
>       yes I know it's old I guess it gives me a noober a sense
>       of comfort somehow that I do just not get with the latest
>       releases. The 'dd' command works fine for me. I even
>       recently learned that in order to install Debian Wheezy
>       7.0 or whatnot I needed to partition the thumb drive for
>       MS-Dos 16 not Fat32 to copy the image. Any reccomendations
>       for a noob like me as far as a newer operating system on
>       my laptop would be wonderful. Thank you for your time I
>       wish I knew more.
>
>       Thank You.
>
>       > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:38:26 -0600
>       > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
>       > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>       > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become
>       obselete for basic use?
>       >
>       > I don't know that they'd remove a printer driver...
>       >
>       > I've been using Ubuntu for many years, but I've never
>       used Gnome, Unity or
>       > KDE (I use Window Maker, as I have since 1996!). I'm
>       lead to believe you
>       > can get the "Classic" Gnome on the newer Ubuntus. It was
>       announced very
>       > recently that they're turning back from that stupid
>       integrated menubar
>       > thing, too.
>       >
>       > If you have the resources to make a bit-by-bit copy of
>       your harddrive, you
>       > can always try upgrading and then downgrade back if you
>       don't like it. I'd
>       > say try a live install on a USB thumbdrive, but that
>       will for SURE be
>       > slow.
>       >
>       > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
>       >
>       > > Yes, and thank you for asking. I am running this older
>       version of Ubuntu on
>       > > a Centrino Duo Laptop. I guess because I was so
>       unimpressed with the 12.04
>       > > performance on my old p4 tower. Also I have an older
>       Lexmark x5070 printer
>       > > that has a driver for the 10.04 Ubuntu. I don't like
>       Gnome 3 maybe i'm just
>       > > slow and I am not really used to KDE. Any suggestions
>       would be wonderful.
>       > >
>       > > Thank You.
>       > >
>       > > > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:24:28 -0600
>       > > > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
>       > > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>       > > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become
>       obselete for basic use?
>       > > >
>       > > > Might be some small things that won't work, but in
>       general you should be
>       > > > fine.
>       > > >
>       > > > Of course, as time goes on, those small things will
>       get bigger and bigger.
>       > > > Still, basic HTML with basic javascript should be
>       fine for a long time. It
>       > > > all depends on what kind of content you want.
>       > > >
>       > > > May I ask why you're running such an old version of
>       Ubuntu?
>       > > >
>       > > > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
>       > > >
>       > > > > For a basic home/office computer user running an
>       older FireFox version
>       > > say
>       > > > > '20.0' under Ubuntu 10.04 etc '2.6.-- kernel' will
>       new web pages and
>       > > webpage
>       > > > > design soon require the need for a later version
>       of FireFox or Opera to
>       > > > > 'surf' the web? Just a curious question I am a
>       noob.
>       > > > >
>       > > > > Thank You.
>       > > > >
>       > > > >
>       > > > _______________________________________________
>       > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>       > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>       > > >
>       http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>       > >
>       > >
>       > _______________________________________________
>       > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>       > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>       > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

From pj.world at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 21 21:43:04 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:43:04 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212106350.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <BAY175-W57B5A3309942CF64D342599840@phx.gbl>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212033040.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <BAY175-W517F0BCE1DB5370D3BFB8999840@phx.gbl>,
 <CAJdTJyP9t1tRWSGJxb4H3q73YcdymvSGGWBHN8=kU_YYwvxsag@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAJdTJyPPp3-JDvqQbVj0ORLat0eDU_eogWfQs6g34hK+GtiV3g@mail.gmail.com>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212106350.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <BAY175-W38A9CA19379C207640455799840@phx.gbl>

I have read from the responses so far..   Another question if I may is-  how secure can a basic noob user like me 'depending on my x5070 printer' each day. Make the 2.6.--- kernel become more hardened? Can I install a newer version of Firefox on the Ubuntu Lucid-Lynx 10.04 running kernel 2.6.32-57-generic? A mechanic a bodyman can fix panels that are in a trash can and I can do that. So I understand that alot of work goes into building drivers for 'printers' and 'cups' is still a learning experience. I would like your help.

Thank You.

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:12:01 -0600
From: tclug at freakzilla.com
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?

Sorry, no. That's like me saying "I'm a new driver maybe I should try 
driving stick" and you suggesting I build an F-18 from scratch and then 
drop off a cliff with it.
 
I've been using Linux since before there were distributions, and there's a 
reason I use Ubuntu. I can get it to do what I want WITHOUT wanting to 
shoot myself.
 
I've always thought Arch was interesting, and a bit ago decided to give it 
a try. So I set up a VM, pointed it at the Arch installaiton medium and 
watched it not even be able to get past it's own setup.
 
You can be an extremely skilled Linux user (and UNIX admin) without ever 
touching anything like Arch. It helps to know how to build your own stuff, 
of course, and knowing the internals, but, again, that's like asking a 
mechanic to manufacture parts themselves.
 
 
On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, David Wagle wrote:
 
> Alternately, if you want to put in the work to not be a noob any longer, you
> could take the plunge into an Arch distribution. It's actually not as hard
> as it might seem at first, and you will be guaranteed to end up with the
> most efficient system you can build on that box :)
> 
> 
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 9:01 PM, David Wagle <david.wagle at gmail.com> wrote:
>       The issue with performance in Ubuntu is almost entirely due to
>       the window manager and has really nothing to do with the other
>       software versions. You can keep the  core "ubuntu" elements the
>       same and  upgrade the rest of the software quite easily. 
> Alternately, you can try something more lightweight -- Mint 16 with
> Xfce is basically Ubunutu with a a lightweight desktop. That's what I
> run on my daughter's very ancient Macbook and it's actually quite
> zippy
> 
> 
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 8:46 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
>       You know I dabbled a bit with OpenSUSE. I just don't have
>       the experience with windows managers. I even set-up a
>       sli-taz machine. I really need nothing off the computer
>       but I like the fact that the 10.04 is so well documented ,
>       yes I know it's old I guess it gives me a noober a sense
>       of comfort somehow that I do just not get with the latest
>       releases. The 'dd' command works fine for me. I even
>       recently learned that in order to install Debian Wheezy
>       7.0 or whatnot I needed to partition the thumb drive for
>       MS-Dos 16 not Fat32 to copy the image. Any reccomendations
>       for a noob like me as far as a newer operating system on
>       my laptop would be wonderful. Thank you for your time I
>       wish I knew more.
>
>       Thank You.
>
>       > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:38:26 -0600
>       > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
>       > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>       > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become
>       obselete for basic use?
>       >
>       > I don't know that they'd remove a printer driver...
>       >
>       > I've been using Ubuntu for many years, but I've never
>       used Gnome, Unity or
>       > KDE (I use Window Maker, as I have since 1996!). I'm
>       lead to believe you
>       > can get the "Classic" Gnome on the newer Ubuntus. It was
>       announced very
>       > recently that they're turning back from that stupid
>       integrated menubar
>       > thing, too.
>       >
>       > If you have the resources to make a bit-by-bit copy of
>       your harddrive, you
>       > can always try upgrading and then downgrade back if you
>       don't like it. I'd
>       > say try a live install on a USB thumbdrive, but that
>       will for SURE be
>       > slow.
>       >
>       > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
>       >
>       > > Yes, and thank you for asking. I am running this older
>       version of Ubuntu on
>       > > a Centrino Duo Laptop. I guess because I was so
>       unimpressed with the 12.04
>       > > performance on my old p4 tower. Also I have an older
>       Lexmark x5070 printer
>       > > that has a driver for the 10.04 Ubuntu. I don't like
>       Gnome 3 maybe i'm just
>       > > slow and I am not really used to KDE. Any suggestions
>       would be wonderful.
>       > >
>       > > Thank You.
>       > >
>       > > > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:24:28 -0600
>       > > > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
>       > > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>       > > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become
>       obselete for basic use?
>       > > >
>       > > > Might be some small things that won't work, but in
>       general you should be
>       > > > fine.
>       > > >
>       > > > Of course, as time goes on, those small things will
>       get bigger and bigger.
>       > > > Still, basic HTML with basic javascript should be
>       fine for a long time. It
>       > > > all depends on what kind of content you want.
>       > > >
>       > > > May I ask why you're running such an old version of
>       Ubuntu?
>       > > >
>       > > > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
>       > > >
>       > > > > For a basic home/office computer user running an
>       older FireFox version
>       > > say
>       > > > > '20.0' under Ubuntu 10.04 etc '2.6.-- kernel' will
>       new web pages and
>       > > webpage
>       > > > > design soon require the need for a later version
>       of FireFox or Opera to
>       > > > > 'surf' the web? Just a curious question I am a
>       noob.
>       > > > >
>       > > > > Thank You.
>       > > > >
>       > > > >
>       > > > _______________________________________________
>       > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>       > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>       > > >
>       http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>       > >
>       > >
>       > _______________________________________________
>       > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>       > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>       > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 		 	   		  
-------------- next part --------------
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From pj.world at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 21 21:47:53 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:47:53 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W38A9CA19379C207640455799840@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>, ,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>, ,
 <BAY175-W57B5A3309942CF64D342599840@phx.gbl>, ,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212033040.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>, ,
 <BAY175-W517F0BCE1DB5370D3BFB8999840@phx.gbl>, ,
 <CAJdTJyP9t1tRWSGJxb4H3q73YcdymvSGGWBHN8=kU_YYwvxsag@mail.gmail.com>, ,
 <CAJdTJyPPp3-JDvqQbVj0ORLat0eDU_eogWfQs6g34hK+GtiV3g@mail.gmail.com>, ,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212106350.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <BAY175-W38A9CA19379C207640455799840@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY175-W38FF7D0D8C76222A8BB62099840@phx.gbl>

I may have been mistaken because the laptop was 'dd' from a 64 bit image of Debian. A seperate machine. I do know that Debian is over my head as far as being a noob. Again I apologize for bothering anyone. I would like to learn a bit and thanks for helping.

Thank You.

From: pj.world at hotmail.com
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:43:04 -0600
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?




I have read from the responses so far..   Another question if I may is-  how secure can a basic noob user like me 'depending on my x5070 printer' each day. Make the 2.6.--- kernel become more hardened? Can I install a newer version of Firefox on the Ubuntu Lucid-Lynx 10.04 running kernel 2.6.32-57-generic? A mechanic a bodyman can fix panels that are in a trash can and I can do that. So I understand that alot of work goes into building drivers for 'printers' and 'cups' is still a learning experience. I would like your help.

Thank You.

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:12:01 -0600
From: tclug at freakzilla.com
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?

Sorry, no. That's like me saying "I'm a new driver maybe I should try 
driving stick" and you suggesting I build an F-18 from scratch and then 
drop off a cliff with it.
 
I've been using Linux since before there were distributions, and there's a 
reason I use Ubuntu. I can get it to do what I want WITHOUT wanting to 
shoot myself.
 
I've always thought Arch was interesting, and a bit ago decided to give it 
a try. So I set up a VM, pointed it at the Arch installaiton medium and 
watched it not even be able to get past it's own setup.
 
You can be an extremely skilled Linux user (and UNIX admin) without ever 
touching anything like Arch. It helps to know how to build your own stuff, 
of course, and knowing the internals, but, again, that's like asking a 
mechanic to manufacture parts themselves.
 
 
On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, David Wagle wrote:
 
> Alternately, if you want to put in the work to not be a noob any longer, you
> could take the plunge into an Arch distribution. It's actually not as hard
> as it might seem at first, and you will be guaranteed to end up with the
> most efficient system you can build on that box :)
> 
> 
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 9:01 PM, David Wagle <david.wagle at gmail.com> wrote:
>       The issue with performance in Ubuntu is almost entirely due to
>       the window manager and has really nothing to do with the other
>       software versions. You can keep the  core "ubuntu" elements the
>       same and  upgrade the rest of the software quite easily. 
> Alternately, you can try something more lightweight -- Mint 16 with
> Xfce is basically Ubunutu with a a lightweight desktop. That's what I
> run on my daughter's very ancient Macbook and it's actually quite
> zippy
> 
> 
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 8:46 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
>       You know I dabbled a bit with OpenSUSE. I just don't have
>       the experience with windows managers. I even set-up a
>       sli-taz machine. I really need nothing off the computer
>       but I like the fact that the 10.04 is so well documented ,
>       yes I know it's old I guess it gives me a noober a sense
>       of comfort somehow that I do just not get with the latest
>       releases. The 'dd' command works fine for me. I even
>       recently learned that in order to install Debian Wheezy
>       7.0 or whatnot I needed to partition the thumb drive for
>       MS-Dos 16 not Fat32 to copy the image. Any reccomendations
>       for a noob like me as far as a newer operating system on
>       my laptop would be wonderful. Thank you for your time I
>       wish I knew more.
>
>       Thank You.
>
>       > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:38:26 -0600
>       > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
>       > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>       > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become
>       obselete for basic use?
>       >
>       > I don't know that they'd remove a printer driver...
>       >
>       > I've been using Ubuntu for many years, but I've never
>       used Gnome, Unity or
>       > KDE (I use Window Maker, as I have since 1996!). I'm
>       lead to believe you
>       > can get the "Classic" Gnome on the newer Ubuntus. It was
>       announced very
>       > recently that they're turning back from that stupid
>       integrated menubar
>       > thing, too.
>       >
>       > If you have the resources to make a bit-by-bit copy of
>       your harddrive, you
>       > can always try upgrading and then downgrade back if you
>       don't like it. I'd
>       > say try a live install on a USB thumbdrive, but that
>       will for SURE be
>       > slow.
>       >
>       > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
>       >
>       > > Yes, and thank you for asking. I am running this older
>       version of Ubuntu on
>       > > a Centrino Duo Laptop. I guess because I was so
>       unimpressed with the 12.04
>       > > performance on my old p4 tower. Also I have an older
>       Lexmark x5070 printer
>       > > that has a driver for the 10.04 Ubuntu. I don't like
>       Gnome 3 maybe i'm just
>       > > slow and I am not really used to KDE. Any suggestions
>       would be wonderful.
>       > >
>       > > Thank You.
>       > >
>       > > > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:24:28 -0600
>       > > > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
>       > > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>       > > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become
>       obselete for basic use?
>       > > >
>       > > > Might be some small things that won't work, but in
>       general you should be
>       > > > fine.
>       > > >
>       > > > Of course, as time goes on, those small things will
>       get bigger and bigger.
>       > > > Still, basic HTML with basic javascript should be
>       fine for a long time. It
>       > > > all depends on what kind of content you want.
>       > > >
>       > > > May I ask why you're running such an old version of
>       Ubuntu?
>       > > >
>       > > > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
>       > > >
>       > > > > For a basic home/office computer user running an
>       older FireFox version
>       > > say
>       > > > > '20.0' under Ubuntu 10.04 etc '2.6.-- kernel' will
>       new web pages and
>       > > webpage
>       > > > > design soon require the need for a later version
>       of FireFox or Opera to
>       > > > > 'surf' the web? Just a curious question I am a
>       noob.
>       > > > >
>       > > > > Thank You.
>       > > > >
>       > > > >
>       > > > _______________________________________________
>       > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>       > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>       > > >
>       http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>       > >
>       > >
>       > _______________________________________________
>       > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>       > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>       > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 		 	   		  

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 		 	   		  
-------------- next part --------------
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Fri Feb 21 21:51:34 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:51:34 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W38A9CA19379C207640455799840@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <BAY175-W57B5A3309942CF64D342599840@phx.gbl>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212033040.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <BAY175-W517F0BCE1DB5370D3BFB8999840@phx.gbl>, 
 <CAJdTJyP9t1tRWSGJxb4H3q73YcdymvSGGWBHN8=kU_YYwvxsag@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAJdTJyPPp3-JDvqQbVj0ORLat0eDU_eogWfQs6g34hK+GtiV3g@mail.gmail.com>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212106350.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W38A9CA19379C207640455799840@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212146110.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>

There are a lot of basic things you can do for security, and a lot of them 
are fairly global for just about any UNIX-like operating system.

First, though, I'm assuming your machine is behind a router, and not using 
a public IP address. In which case, your router or cable modem are your 
first line of defense. As long as they are not set up to blindly forward 
traffic back into your network, your laptop should be fairly safe since no 
attacks can get to it.

It's still good practice to disable services you don't need running on 
that machine. I'm not sure what Ubuntu 10.x would leave running, but if 
you have, say, Apache on the thing for no reason, it's a good idea to nuke 
that. Similarly, unless the machine is a print server, you should tell 
cups not to listen for incoming requests.

You can install and run nmap on that machine to see what ports are open.

Since it's a Linux box, the vast majority of malware woudn't affect you. 
But you should still make sure you don't run programs you don't trust, 
open emails from weird places, follow untrusted links, etc.

I like having Adblock Plus and NoScript on my Firefox. Noscript can be 
somewhat intrusive, but I'm willing to live with that. I also like to set 
Firefox to never accept 3rd party cookies, and ask me every time about any 
others.

On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:

> I have read from the responses so far..?? Another question if I may is-? how
> secure can a basic noob user like me 'depending on my x5070 printer' each
> day. Make the 2.6.--- kernel become more hardened? Can I install a newer
> version of Firefox on the Ubuntu Lucid-Lynx 10.04 running kernel
> 2.6.32-57-generic? A mechanic a bodyman can fix panels that are in a trash
> can and I can do that. So I understand that alot of work goes into building
> drivers for 'printers' and 'cups' is still a learning experience. I would
> like your help.
> 
> Thank You.
> 
> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:12:01 -0600
> From: tclug at freakzilla.com
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
> 
> Sorry, no. That's like me saying "I'm a new driver maybe I should try 
> driving stick" and you suggesting I build an F-18 from scratch and then 
> drop off a cliff with it.
> 
> I've been using Linux since before there were distributions, and there's a 
> reason I use Ubuntu. I can get it to do what I want WITHOUT wanting to 
> shoot myself.
> 
> I've always thought Arch was interesting, and a bit ago decided to give it 
> a try. So I set up a VM, pointed it at the Arch installaiton medium and 
> watched it not even be able to get past it's own setup.
> 
> You can be an extremely skilled Linux user (and UNIX admin) without ever 
> touching anything like Arch. It helps to know how to build your own stuff, 
> of course, and knowing the internals, but, again, that's like asking a 
> mechanic to manufacture parts themselves.
>
> 
> On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, David Wagle wrote:
> 
> > Alternately, if you want to put in the work to not be a noob any longer, y
> ou
> > could take the plunge into an Arch distribution. It's actually not as hard
> > as it might seem at first, and you will be guaranteed to end up with the
> > most efficient system you can build on that box :)
> > 
> > 
> > On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 9:01 PM, David Wagle <david.wagle at gmail.com> wrote
> :
> >       The issue with performance in Ubuntu is almost entirely due to
> >       the window manager and has really nothing to do with the other
> >       software versions. You can keep the ?core "ubuntu" elements the
> >       same and ?upgrade the rest of the software quite easily.?
> > Alternately, you can try something more lightweight -- Mint 16 with
> > Xfce is basically Ubunutu with a a lightweight desktop. That's what I
> > run on my daughter's very ancient Macbook and it's actually quite
> > zippy
> > 
> > 
> > On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 8:46 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >       You know I dabbled a bit with OpenSUSE. I just don't have
> >       the experience with windows managers. I even set-up a
> >       sli-taz machine. I really need nothing off the computer
> >       but I like the fact that the 10.04 is so well documented ,
> >       yes I know it's old I guess it gives me a noober a sense
> >       of comfort somehow that I do just not get with the latest
> >       releases. The 'dd' command works fine for me. I even
> >       recently learned that in order to install Debian Wheezy
> >       7.0 or whatnot I needed to partition the thumb drive for
> >       MS-Dos 16 not Fat32 to copy the image. Any reccomendations
> >       for a noob like me as far as a newer operating system on
> >       my laptop would be wonderful. Thank you for your time I
> >       wish I knew more.
> >
> >       Thank You.
> >
> >       > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:38:26 -0600
> >       > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
> >       > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >       > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become
> >       obselete for basic use?
> >       >
> >       > I don't know that they'd remove a printer driver...
> >       >
> >       > I've been using Ubuntu for many years, but I've never
> >       used Gnome, Unity or
> >       > KDE (I use Window Maker, as I have since 1996!). I'm
> >       lead to believe you
> >       > can get the "Classic" Gnome on the newer Ubuntus. It was
> >       announced very
> >       > recently that they're turning back from that stupid
> >       integrated menubar
> >       > thing, too.
> >       >
> >       > If you have the resources to make a bit-by-bit copy of
> >       your harddrive, you
> >       > can always try upgrading and then downgrade back if you
> >       don't like it. I'd
> >       > say try a live install on a USB thumbdrive, but that
> >       will for SURE be
> >       > slow.
> >       >
> >       > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
> >       >
> >       > > Yes, and thank you for asking. I am running this older
> >       version of Ubuntu on
> >       > > a Centrino Duo Laptop. I guess because I was so
> >       unimpressed with the 12.04
> >       > > performance on my old p4 tower. Also I have an older
> >       Lexmark x5070 printer
> >       > > that has a driver for the 10.04 Ubuntu. I don't like
> >       Gnome 3 maybe i'm just
> >       > > slow and I am not really used to KDE. Any suggestions
> >       would be wonderful.
> >       > >
> >       > > Thank You.
> >       > >
> >       > > > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:24:28 -0600
> >       > > > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
> >       > > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >       > > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become
> >       obselete for basic use?
> >       > > >
> >       > > > Might be some small things that won't work, but in
> >       general you should be
> >       > > > fine.
> >       > > >
> >       > > > Of course, as time goes on, those small things will
> >       get bigger and bigger.
> >       > > > Still, basic HTML with basic javascript should be
> >       fine for a long time. It
> >       > > > all depends on what kind of content you want.
> >       > > >
> >       > > > May I ask why you're running such an old version of
> >       Ubuntu?
> >       > > >
> >       > > > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
> >       > > >
> >       > > > > For a basic home/office computer user running an
> >       older FireFox version
> >       > > say
> >       > > > > '20.0' under Ubuntu 10.04 etc '2.6.-- kernel' will
> >       new web pages and
> >       > > webpage
> >       > > > > design soon require the need for a later version
> >       of FireFox or Opera to
> >       > > > > 'surf' the web? Just a curious question I am a
> >       noob.
> >       > > > >
> >       > > > > Thank You.
> >       > > > >
> >       > > > >
> >       > > > _______________________________________________
> >       > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >       > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >       > > >
> >       http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > _______________________________________________
> >       > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >       > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >       > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List -
> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
>

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Fri Feb 21 21:52:39 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:52:39 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W38FF7D0D8C76222A8BB62099840@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>, ,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>, ,
 <BAY175-W57B5A3309942CF64D342599840@phx.gbl>, ,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212033040.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>, ,
 <BAY175-W517F0BCE1DB5370D3BFB8999840@phx.gbl>, 
 , <CAJdTJyP9t1tRWSGJxb4H3q73YcdymvSGGWBHN8=kU_YYwvxsag@mail.gmail.com>, ,
 <CAJdTJyPPp3-JDvqQbVj0ORLat0eDU_eogWfQs6g34hK+GtiV3g@mail.gmail.com>, ,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212106350.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <BAY175-W38A9CA19379C207640455799840@phx.gbl>
 <BAY175-W38FF7D0D8C76222A8BB62099840@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212152010.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>

Isn't debian pretty much the same as ubuntu, management-wise? I mean 
ubuntu is a debian-derivative.

On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:

> I may have been mistaken because the laptop was 'dd' from a 64 bit image of
> Debian. A seperate machine. I do know that Debian is over my head as far as
> being a noob. Again I apologize for bothering anyone. I would like to learn
> a bit and thanks for helping.
> 
> Thank You.
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> From: pj.world at hotmail.com
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:43:04 -0600
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
> 
> I have read from the responses so far..?? Another question if I may is-? how
> secure can a basic noob user like me 'depending on my x5070 printer' each
> day. Make the 2.6.--- kernel become more hardened? Can I install a newer
> version of Firefox on the Ubuntu Lucid-Lynx 10.04 running kernel
> 2.6.32-57-generic? A mechanic a bodyman can fix panels that are in a trash
> can and I can do that. So I understand that alot of work goes into building
> drivers for 'printers' and 'cups' is still a learning experience. I would
> like your help.
> 
> Thank You.
> 
> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:12:01 -0600
> From: tclug at freakzilla.com
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
> 
> Sorry, no. That's like me saying "I'm a new driver maybe I should try 
> driving stick" and you suggesting I build an F-18 from scratch and then 
> drop off a cliff with it.
> 
> I've been using Linux since before there were distributions, and there's a 
> reason I use Ubuntu. I can get it to do what I want WITHOUT wanting to 
> shoot myself.
> 
> I've always thought Arch was interesting, and a bit ago decided to give it 
> a try. So I set up a VM, pointed it at the Arch installaiton medium and 
> watched it not even be able to get past it's own setup.
> 
> You can be an extremely skilled Linux user (and UNIX admin) without ever 
> touching anything like Arch. It helps to know how to build your own stuff, 
> of course, and knowing the internals, but, again, that's like asking a 
> mechanic to manufacture parts themselves.
>
> 
> On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, David Wagle wrote:
> 
> > Alternately, if you want to put in the work to not be a noob any longer, y
> ou
> > could take the plunge into an Arch distribution. It's actually not as hard
> > as it might seem at first, and you will be guaranteed to end up with the
> > most efficient system you can build on that box :)
> > 
> > 
> > On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 9:01 PM, David Wagle <david.wagle at gmail.com> wrote
> :
> >       The issue with performance in Ubuntu is almost entirely due to
> >       the window manager and has really nothing to do with the other
> >       software versions. You can keep the ?core "ubuntu" elements the
> >       same and ?upgrade the rest of the software quite easily.?
> > Alternately, you can try something more lightweight -- Mint 16 with
> > Xfce is basically Ubunutu with a a lightweight desktop. That's what I
> > run on my daughter's very ancient Macbook and it's actually quite
> > zippy
> > 
> > 
> > On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 8:46 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >       You know I dabbled a bit with OpenSUSE. I just don't have
> >       the experience with windows managers. I even set-up a
> >       sli-taz machine. I really need nothing off the computer
> >       but I like the fact that the 10.04 is so well documented ,
> >       yes I know it's old I guess it gives me a noober a sense
> >       of comfort somehow that I do just not get with the latest
> >       releases. The 'dd' command works fine for me. I even
> >       recently learned that in order to install Debian Wheezy
> >       7.0 or whatnot I needed to partition the thumb drive for
> >       MS-Dos 16 not Fat32 to copy the image. Any reccomendations
> >       for a noob like me as far as a newer operating system on
> >       my laptop would be wonderful. Thank you for your time I
> >       wish I knew more.
> >
> >       Thank You.
> >
> >       > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:38:26 -0600
> >       > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
> >       > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >       > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become
> >       obselete for basic use?
> >       >
> >       > I don't know that they'd remove a printer driver...
> >       >
> >       > I've been using Ubuntu for many years, but I've never
> >       used Gnome, Unity or
> >       > KDE (I use Window Maker, as I have since 1996!). I'm
> >       lead to believe you
> >       > can get the "Classic" Gnome on the newer Ubuntus. It was
> >       announced very
> >       > recently that they're turning back from that stupid
> >       integrated menubar
> >       > thing, too.
> >       >
> >       > If you have the resources to make a bit-by-bit copy of
> >       your harddrive, you
> >       > can always try upgrading and then downgrade back if you
> >       don't like it. I'd
> >       > say try a live install on a USB thumbdrive, but that
> >       will for SURE be
> >       > slow.
> >       >
> >       > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
> >       >
> >       > > Yes, and thank you for asking. I am running this older
> >       version of Ubuntu on
> >       > > a Centrino Duo Laptop. I guess because I was so
> >       unimpressed with the 12.04
> >       > > performance on my old p4 tower. Also I have an older
> >       Lexmark x5070 printer
> >       > > that has a driver for the 10.04 Ubuntu. I don't like
> >       Gnome 3 maybe i'm just
> >       > > slow and I am not really used to KDE. Any suggestions
> >       would be wonderful.
> >       > >
> >       > > Thank You.
> >       > >
> >       > > > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:24:28 -0600
> >       > > > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
> >       > > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >       > > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become
> >       obselete for basic use?
> >       > > >
> >       > > > Might be some small things that won't work, but in
> >       general you should be
> >       > > > fine.
> >       > > >
> >       > > > Of course, as time goes on, those small things will
> >       get bigger and bigger.
> >       > > > Still, basic HTML with basic javascript should be
> >       fine for a long time. It
> >       > > > all depends on what kind of content you want.
> >       > > >
> >       > > > May I ask why you're running such an old version of
> >       Ubuntu?
> >       > > >
> >       > > > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
> >       > > >
> >       > > > > For a basic home/office computer user running an
> >       older FireFox version
> >       > > say
> >       > > > > '20.0' under Ubuntu 10.04 etc '2.6.-- kernel' will
> >       new web pages and
> >       > > webpage
> >       > > > > design soon require the need for a later version
> >       of FireFox or Opera to
> >       > > > > 'surf' the web? Just a curious question I am a
> >       noob.
> >       > > > >
> >       > > > > Thank You.
> >       > > > >
> >       > > > >
> >       > > > _______________________________________________
> >       > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >       > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >       > > >
> >       http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > _______________________________________________
> >       > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >       > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >       > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List -
> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List -
> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
>

From ryanjcole at me.com  Fri Feb 21 21:52:50 2014
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:52:50 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W38FF7D0D8C76222A8BB62099840@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W57B5A3309942CF64D342599840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212033040.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W517F0BCE1DB5370D3BFB8999840@phx.gbl>
 <CAJdTJyP9t1tRWSGJxb4H3q73YcdymvSGGWBHN8=kU_YYwvxsag@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJdTJyPPp3-JDvqQbVj0ORLat0eDU_eogWfQs6g34hK+GtiV3g@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212106350.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W38A9CA19379C207640455799840@phx.gbl>
 <BAY175-W38FF7D0D8C76222A8BB62099840@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <43D92D1A-FB43-4BB8-8E75-B3924A5F3DD2@me.com>

I started in the days of non-auto-fetching RPMs and RedHat 4.2 in 1999. After a hacking in 2002 and Earthlink?s lack of interest in enforcing their terms of service I switched over to BSD.

I occasionally use SUSE, Ubuntu and RHLE installations these days but I?m still a BSD user. Primarily because my machines don?t need GUIs. Then again, I?ve never been one to use the word ?noob? for anything other than smoting when I played WOW and Halo.

On Feb 21, 2014, at 9:47 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:

> I may have been mistaken because the laptop was 'dd' from a 64 bit image of Debian. A seperate machine. I do know that Debian is over my head as far as being a noob. Again I apologize for bothering anyone. I would like to learn a bit and thanks for helping.
> 
> Thank You.
> 
> From: pj.world at hotmail.com
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:43:04 -0600
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
> 
> I have read from the responses so far..   Another question if I may is-  how secure can a basic noob user like me 'depending on my x5070 printer' each day. Make the 2.6.--- kernel become more hardened? Can I install a newer version of Firefox on the Ubuntu Lucid-Lynx 10.04 running kernel 2.6.32-57-generic? A mechanic a bodyman can fix panels that are in a trash can and I can do that. So I understand that alot of work goes into building drivers for 'printers' and 'cups' is still a learning experience. I would like your help.
> 
> Thank You.
> 
> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:12:01 -0600
> From: tclug at freakzilla.com
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
> 
> Sorry, no. That's like me saying "I'm a new driver maybe I should try 
> driving stick" and you suggesting I build an F-18 from scratch and then 
> drop off a cliff with it.
>  
> I've been using Linux since before there were distributions, and there's a 
> reason I use Ubuntu. I can get it to do what I want WITHOUT wanting to 
> shoot myself.
>  
> I've always thought Arch was interesting, and a bit ago decided to give it 
> a try. So I set up a VM, pointed it at the Arch installaiton medium and 
> watched it not even be able to get past it's own setup.
>  
> You can be an extremely skilled Linux user (and UNIX admin) without ever 
> touching anything like Arch. It helps to know how to build your own stuff, 
> of course, and knowing the internals, but, again, that's like asking a 
> mechanic to manufacture parts themselves.
>  
>  
> On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, David Wagle wrote:
>  
> > Alternately, if you want to put in the work to not be a noob any longer, you
> > could take the plunge into an Arch distribution. It's actually not as hard
> > as it might seem at first, and you will be guaranteed to end up with the
> > most efficient system you can build on that box :)
> > 
> > 
> > On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 9:01 PM, David Wagle <david.wagle at gmail.com> wrote:
> >       The issue with performance in Ubuntu is almost entirely due to
> >       the window manager and has really nothing to do with the other
> >       software versions. You can keep the  core "ubuntu" elements the
> >       same and  upgrade the rest of the software quite easily. 
> > Alternately, you can try something more lightweight -- Mint 16 with
> > Xfce is basically Ubunutu with a a lightweight desktop. That's what I
> > run on my daughter's very ancient Macbook and it's actually quite
> > zippy
> > 
> > 
> > On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 8:46 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >       You know I dabbled a bit with OpenSUSE. I just don't have
> >       the experience with windows managers. I even set-up a
> >       sli-taz machine. I really need nothing off the computer
> >       but I like the fact that the 10.04 is so well documented ,
> >       yes I know it's old I guess it gives me a noober a sense
> >       of comfort somehow that I do just not get with the latest
> >       releases. The 'dd' command works fine for me. I even
> >       recently learned that in order to install Debian Wheezy
> >       7.0 or whatnot I needed to partition the thumb drive for
> >       MS-Dos 16 not Fat32 to copy the image. Any reccomendations
> >       for a noob like me as far as a newer operating system on
> >       my laptop would be wonderful. Thank you for your time I
> >       wish I knew more.
> >
> >       Thank You.
> >
> >       > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:38:26 -0600
> >       > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
> >       > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >       > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become
> >       obselete for basic use?
> >       >
> >       > I don't know that they'd remove a printer driver...
> >       >
> >       > I've been using Ubuntu for many years, but I've never
> >       used Gnome, Unity or
> >       > KDE (I use Window Maker, as I have since 1996!). I'm
> >       lead to believe you
> >       > can get the "Classic" Gnome on the newer Ubuntus. It was
> >       announced very
> >       > recently that they're turning back from that stupid
> >       integrated menubar
> >       > thing, too.
> >       >
> >       > If you have the resources to make a bit-by-bit copy of
> >       your harddrive, you
> >       > can always try upgrading and then downgrade back if you
> >       don't like it. I'd
> >       > say try a live install on a USB thumbdrive, but that
> >       will for SURE be
> >       > slow.
> >       >
> >       > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
> >       >
> >       > > Yes, and thank you for asking. I am running this older
> >       version of Ubuntu on
> >       > > a Centrino Duo Laptop. I guess because I was so
> >       unimpressed with the 12.04
> >       > > performance on my old p4 tower. Also I have an older
> >       Lexmark x5070 printer
> >       > > that has a driver for the 10.04 Ubuntu. I don't like
> >       Gnome 3 maybe i'm just
> >       > > slow and I am not really used to KDE. Any suggestions
> >       would be wonderful.
> >       > >
> >       > > Thank You.
> >       > >
> >       > > > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:24:28 -0600
> >       > > > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
> >       > > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >       > > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become
> >       obselete for basic use?
> >       > > >
> >       > > > Might be some small things that won't work, but in
> >       general you should be
> >       > > > fine.
> >       > > >
> >       > > > Of course, as time goes on, those small things will
> >       get bigger and bigger.
> >       > > > Still, basic HTML with basic javascript should be
> >       fine for a long time. It
> >       > > > all depends on what kind of content you want.
> >       > > >
> >       > > > May I ask why you're running such an old version of
> >       Ubuntu?
> >       > > >
> >       > > > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
> >       > > >
> >       > > > > For a basic home/office computer user running an
> >       older FireFox version
> >       > > say
> >       > > > > '20.0' under Ubuntu 10.04 etc '2.6.-- kernel' will
> >       new web pages and
> >       > > webpage
> >       > > > > design soon require the need for a later version
> >       of FireFox or Opera to
> >       > > > > 'surf' the web? Just a curious question I am a
> >       noob.
> >       > > > >
> >       > > > > Thank You.
> >       > > > >
> >       > > > >
> >       > > > _______________________________________________
> >       > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >       > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >       > > >
> >       http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > _______________________________________________
> >       > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >       > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >       > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From ryanjcole at me.com  Fri Feb 21 21:54:32 2014
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:54:32 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <43D92D1A-FB43-4BB8-8E75-B3924A5F3DD2@me.com>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W57B5A3309942CF64D342599840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212033040.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W517F0BCE1DB5370D3BFB8999840@phx.gbl>
 <CAJdTJyP9t1tRWSGJxb4H3q73YcdymvSGGWBHN8=kU_YYwvxsag@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJdTJyPPp3-JDvqQbVj0ORLat0eDU_eogWfQs6g34hK+GtiV3g@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212106350.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W38A9CA19379C207640455799840@phx.gbl>
 <BAY175-W38FF7D0D8C76222A8BB62099840@phx.gbl>
 <43D92D1A-FB43-4BB8-8E75-B3924A5F3DD2@me.com>
Message-ID: <A2852B17-03B1-4066-999F-C5E86DD60ADA@me.com>

My point, which I failed to make, (BAD RYAN) was there?s really no such thing "as over my head? in this world. If you have someone willing to lead you through the doors you need you?ll be perfectly fine. I also forgot on the list CentOS and Fedora. Rarely I?ve been asked to touch an AUX box.

On Feb 21, 2014, at 9:52 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com> wrote:

> I started in the days of non-auto-fetching RPMs and RedHat 4.2 in 1999. After a hacking in 2002 and Earthlink?s lack of interest in enforcing their terms of service I switched over to BSD.
> 
> I occasionally use SUSE, Ubuntu and RHLE installations these days but I?m still a BSD user. Primarily because my machines don?t need GUIs. Then again, I?ve never been one to use the word ?noob? for anything other than smoting when I played WOW and Halo.
> 
> On Feb 21, 2014, at 9:47 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I may have been mistaken because the laptop was 'dd' from a 64 bit image of Debian. A seperate machine. I do know that Debian is over my head as far as being a noob. Again I apologize for bothering anyone. I would like to learn a bit and thanks for helping.
>> 
>> Thank You.
>> 
>> From: pj.world at hotmail.com
>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:43:04 -0600
>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
>> 
>> I have read from the responses so far..   Another question if I may is-  how secure can a basic noob user like me 'depending on my x5070 printer' each day. Make the 2.6.--- kernel become more hardened? Can I install a newer version of Firefox on the Ubuntu Lucid-Lynx 10.04 running kernel 2.6.32-57-generic? A mechanic a bodyman can fix panels that are in a trash can and I can do that. So I understand that alot of work goes into building drivers for 'printers' and 'cups' is still a learning experience. I would like your help.
>> 
>> Thank You.
>> 
>> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:12:01 -0600
>> From: tclug at freakzilla.com
>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
>> 
>> Sorry, no. That's like me saying "I'm a new driver maybe I should try 
>> driving stick" and you suggesting I build an F-18 from scratch and then 
>> drop off a cliff with it.
>>  
>> I've been using Linux since before there were distributions, and there's a 
>> reason I use Ubuntu. I can get it to do what I want WITHOUT wanting to 
>> shoot myself.
>>  
>> I've always thought Arch was interesting, and a bit ago decided to give it 
>> a try. So I set up a VM, pointed it at the Arch installaiton medium and 
>> watched it not even be able to get past it's own setup.
>>  
>> You can be an extremely skilled Linux user (and UNIX admin) without ever 
>> touching anything like Arch. It helps to know how to build your own stuff, 
>> of course, and knowing the internals, but, again, that's like asking a 
>> mechanic to manufacture parts themselves.
>>  
>>  
>> On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, David Wagle wrote:
>>  
>> > Alternately, if you want to put in the work to not be a noob any longer, you
>> > could take the plunge into an Arch distribution. It's actually not as hard
>> > as it might seem at first, and you will be guaranteed to end up with the
>> > most efficient system you can build on that box :)
>> > 
>> > 
>> > On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 9:01 PM, David Wagle <david.wagle at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >       The issue with performance in Ubuntu is almost entirely due to
>> >       the window manager and has really nothing to do with the other
>> >       software versions. You can keep the  core "ubuntu" elements the
>> >       same and  upgrade the rest of the software quite easily. 
>> > Alternately, you can try something more lightweight -- Mint 16 with
>> > Xfce is basically Ubunutu with a a lightweight desktop. That's what I
>> > run on my daughter's very ancient Macbook and it's actually quite
>> > zippy
>> > 
>> > 
>> > On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 8:46 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >       You know I dabbled a bit with OpenSUSE. I just don't have
>> >       the experience with windows managers. I even set-up a
>> >       sli-taz machine. I really need nothing off the computer
>> >       but I like the fact that the 10.04 is so well documented ,
>> >       yes I know it's old I guess it gives me a noober a sense
>> >       of comfort somehow that I do just not get with the latest
>> >       releases. The 'dd' command works fine for me. I even
>> >       recently learned that in order to install Debian Wheezy
>> >       7.0 or whatnot I needed to partition the thumb drive for
>> >       MS-Dos 16 not Fat32 to copy the image. Any reccomendations
>> >       for a noob like me as far as a newer operating system on
>> >       my laptop would be wonderful. Thank you for your time I
>> >       wish I knew more.
>> >
>> >       Thank You.
>> >
>> >       > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:38:26 -0600
>> >       > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
>> >       > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> >       > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become
>> >       obselete for basic use?
>> >       >
>> >       > I don't know that they'd remove a printer driver...
>> >       >
>> >       > I've been using Ubuntu for many years, but I've never
>> >       used Gnome, Unity or
>> >       > KDE (I use Window Maker, as I have since 1996!). I'm
>> >       lead to believe you
>> >       > can get the "Classic" Gnome on the newer Ubuntus. It was
>> >       announced very
>> >       > recently that they're turning back from that stupid
>> >       integrated menubar
>> >       > thing, too.
>> >       >
>> >       > If you have the resources to make a bit-by-bit copy of
>> >       your harddrive, you
>> >       > can always try upgrading and then downgrade back if you
>> >       don't like it. I'd
>> >       > say try a live install on a USB thumbdrive, but that
>> >       will for SURE be
>> >       > slow.
>> >       >
>> >       > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
>> >       >
>> >       > > Yes, and thank you for asking. I am running this older
>> >       version of Ubuntu on
>> >       > > a Centrino Duo Laptop. I guess because I was so
>> >       unimpressed with the 12.04
>> >       > > performance on my old p4 tower. Also I have an older
>> >       Lexmark x5070 printer
>> >       > > that has a driver for the 10.04 Ubuntu. I don't like
>> >       Gnome 3 maybe i'm just
>> >       > > slow and I am not really used to KDE. Any suggestions
>> >       would be wonderful.
>> >       > >
>> >       > > Thank You.
>> >       > >
>> >       > > > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:24:28 -0600
>> >       > > > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
>> >       > > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> >       > > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become
>> >       obselete for basic use?
>> >       > > >
>> >       > > > Might be some small things that won't work, but in
>> >       general you should be
>> >       > > > fine.
>> >       > > >
>> >       > > > Of course, as time goes on, those small things will
>> >       get bigger and bigger.
>> >       > > > Still, basic HTML with basic javascript should be
>> >       fine for a long time. It
>> >       > > > all depends on what kind of content you want.
>> >       > > >
>> >       > > > May I ask why you're running such an old version of
>> >       Ubuntu?
>> >       > > >
>> >       > > > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
>> >       > > >
>> >       > > > > For a basic home/office computer user running an
>> >       older FireFox version
>> >       > > say
>> >       > > > > '20.0' under Ubuntu 10.04 etc '2.6.-- kernel' will
>> >       new web pages and
>> >       > > webpage
>> >       > > > > design soon require the need for a later version
>> >       of FireFox or Opera to
>> >       > > > > 'surf' the web? Just a curious question I am a
>> >       noob.
>> >       > > > >
>> >       > > > > Thank You.
>> >       > > > >
>> >       > > > >
>> >       > > > _______________________________________________
>> >       > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> >       > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> >       > > >
>> >       http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> >       > >
>> >       > >
>> >       > _______________________________________________
>> >       > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> >       > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> >       > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> > 
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> >
>> 
>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> 
>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 

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From pj.world at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 21 22:10:55 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 22:10:55 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <A2852B17-03B1-4066-999F-C5E86DD60ADA@me.com>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <BAY175-W57B5A3309942CF64D342599840@phx.gbl>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212033040.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <BAY175-W517F0BCE1DB5370D3BFB8999840@phx.gbl>,
 <CAJdTJyP9t1tRWSGJxb4H3q73YcdymvSGGWBHN8=kU_YYwvxsag@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAJdTJyPPp3-JDvqQbVj0ORLat0eDU_eogWfQs6g34hK+GtiV3g@mail.gmail.com>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212106350.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <BAY175-W38A9CA19379C207640455799840@phx.gbl>,
 <BAY175-W38FF7D0D8C76222A8BB62099840@phx.gbl>,
 <43D92D1A-FB43-4BB8-8E75-B3924A5F3DD2@me.com>,
 <A2852B17-03B1-4066-999F-C5E86DD60ADA@me.com>
Message-ID: <BAY175-W33A40571575EF1323FAF4099840@phx.gbl>

I know now that the aptitude purge command is different than the dpkg purge command. Do you think that I am to dumb to use Debian? I guess I never went to a university and my mind is not very fast. Oh well this is a wonderful helpful user group though. I would like to someday know how to actually use a computer and write drivers. It takes alot of skill to be where you are all at. I just want a chance. I get so confused.

Thank You.

From: ryanjcole at me.com
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:54:32 -0600
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?

My point, which I failed to make, (BAD RYAN) was there?s really no such thing "as over my head? in this world. If you have someone willing to lead you through the doors you need you?ll be perfectly fine. I also forgot on the list CentOS and Fedora. Rarely I?ve been asked to touch an AUX box.
On Feb 21, 2014, at 9:52 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com> wrote:I started in the days of non-auto-fetching RPMs and RedHat 4.2 in 1999. After a hacking in 2002 and Earthlink?s lack of interest in enforcing their terms of service I switched over to BSD.
I occasionally use SUSE, Ubuntu and RHLE installations these days but I?m still a BSD user. Primarily because my machines don?t need GUIs. Then again, I?ve never been one to use the word ?noob? for anything other than smoting when I played WOW and Halo.
On Feb 21, 2014, at 9:47 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:I may have been mistaken because the laptop was 'dd' from a 64 bit image of Debian. A seperate machine. I do know that Debian is over my head as far as being a noob. Again I apologize for bothering anyone. I would like to learn a bit and thanks for helping.

Thank You.

From: pj.world at hotmail.com
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:43:04 -0600
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?

I have read from the responses so far..   Another question if I may is-  how secure can a basic noob user like me 'depending on my x5070 printer' each day. Make the 2.6.--- kernel become more hardened? Can I install a newer version of Firefox on the Ubuntu Lucid-Lynx 10.04 running kernel 2.6.32-57-generic? A mechanic a bodyman can fix panels that are in a trash can and I can do that. So I understand that alot of work goes into building drivers for 'printers' and 'cups' is still a learning experience. I would like your help.

Thank You.

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:12:01 -0600
From: tclug at freakzilla.com
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?

Sorry, no. That's like me saying "I'm a new driver maybe I should try 
driving stick" and you suggesting I build an F-18 from scratch and then 
drop off a cliff with it.
 
I've been using Linux since before there were distributions, and there's a 
reason I use Ubuntu. I can get it to do what I want WITHOUT wanting to 
shoot myself.
 
I've always thought Arch was interesting, and a bit ago decided to give it 
a try. So I set up a VM, pointed it at the Arch installaiton medium and 
watched it not even be able to get past it's own setup.
 
You can be an extremely skilled Linux user (and UNIX admin) without ever 
touching anything like Arch. It helps to know how to build your own stuff, 
of course, and knowing the internals, but, again, that's like asking a 
mechanic to manufacture parts themselves.
 
 
On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, David Wagle wrote:
 
> Alternately, if you want to put in the work to not be a noob any longer, you
> could take the plunge into an Arch distribution. It's actually not as hard
> as it might seem at first, and you will be guaranteed to end up with the
> most efficient system you can build on that box :)
> 
> 
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 9:01 PM, David Wagle <david.wagle at gmail.com> wrote:
>       The issue with performance in Ubuntu is almost entirely due to
>       the window manager and has really nothing to do with the other
>       software versions. You can keep the  core "ubuntu" elements the
>       same and  upgrade the rest of the software quite easily. 
> Alternately, you can try something more lightweight -- Mint 16 with
> Xfce is basically Ubunutu with a a lightweight desktop. That's what I
> run on my daughter's very ancient Macbook and it's actually quite
> zippy
> 
> 
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 8:46 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
>       You know I dabbled a bit with OpenSUSE. I just don't have
>       the experience with windows managers. I even set-up a
>       sli-taz machine. I really need nothing off the computer
>       but I like the fact that the 10.04 is so well documented ,
>       yes I know it's old I guess it gives me a noober a sense
>       of comfort somehow that I do just not get with the latest
>       releases. The 'dd' command works fine for me. I even
>       recently learned that in order to install Debian Wheezy
>       7.0 or whatnot I needed to partition the thumb drive for
>       MS-Dos 16 not Fat32 to copy the image. Any reccomendations
>       for a noob like me as far as a newer operating system on
>       my laptop would be wonderful. Thank you for your time I
>       wish I knew more.
>
>       Thank You.
>
>       > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:38:26 -0600
>       > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
>       > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>       > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become
>       obselete for basic use?
>       >
>       > I don't know that they'd remove a printer driver...
>       >
>       > I've been using Ubuntu for many years, but I've never
>       used Gnome, Unity or
>       > KDE (I use Window Maker, as I have since 1996!). I'm
>       lead to believe you
>       > can get the "Classic" Gnome on the newer Ubuntus. It was
>       announced very
>       > recently that they're turning back from that stupid
>       integrated menubar
>       > thing, too.
>       >
>       > If you have the resources to make a bit-by-bit copy of
>       your harddrive, you
>       > can always try upgrading and then downgrade back if you
>       don't like it. I'd
>       > say try a live install on a USB thumbdrive, but that
>       will for SURE be
>       > slow.
>       >
>       > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
>       >
>       > > Yes, and thank you for asking. I am running this older
>       version of Ubuntu on
>       > > a Centrino Duo Laptop. I guess because I was so
>       unimpressed with the 12.04
>       > > performance on my old p4 tower. Also I have an older
>       Lexmark x5070 printer
>       > > that has a driver for the 10.04 Ubuntu. I don't like
>       Gnome 3 maybe i'm just
>       > > slow and I am not really used to KDE. Any suggestions
>       would be wonderful.
>       > >
>       > > Thank You.
>       > >
>       > > > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:24:28 -0600
>       > > > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
>       > > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>       > > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become
>       obselete for basic use?
>       > > >
>       > > > Might be some small things that won't work, but in
>       general you should be
>       > > > fine.
>       > > >
>       > > > Of course, as time goes on, those small things will
>       get bigger and bigger.
>       > > > Still, basic HTML with basic javascript should be
>       fine for a long time. It
>       > > > all depends on what kind of content you want.
>       > > >
>       > > > May I ask why you're running such an old version of
>       Ubuntu?
>       > > >
>       > > > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
>       > > >
>       > > > > For a basic home/office computer user running an
>       older FireFox version
>       > > say
>       > > > > '20.0' under Ubuntu 10.04 etc '2.6.-- kernel' will
>       new web pages and
>       > > webpage
>       > > > > design soon require the need for a later version
>       of FireFox or Opera to
>       > > > > 'surf' the web? Just a curious question I am a
>       noob.
>       > > > >
>       > > > > Thank You.
>       > > > >
>       > > > >
>       > > > _______________________________________________
>       > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>       > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>       > > >
>       http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>       > >
>       > >
>       > _______________________________________________
>       > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>       > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>       > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

_______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
_______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 		 	   		  
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From ryanjcole at me.com  Fri Feb 21 22:13:14 2014
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 22:13:14 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W33A40571575EF1323FAF4099840@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W57B5A3309942CF64D342599840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212033040.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W517F0BCE1DB5370D3BFB8999840@phx.gbl>
 <CAJdTJyP9t1tRWSGJxb4H3q73YcdymvSGGWBHN8=kU_YYwvxsag@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJdTJyPPp3-JDvqQbVj0ORLat0eDU_eogWfQs6g34hK+GtiV3g@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212106350.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W38A9CA19379C207640455799840@phx.gbl>
 <BAY175-W38FF7D0D8C76222A8BB62099840@phx.gbl>
 <43D92D1A-FB43-4BB8-8E75-B3924A5F3DD2@me.com>
 <A2852B17-03B1-4066-999F-C5E86DD60ADA@me.com>
 <BAY175-W33A40571575EF1323FAF4099840@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <21AA3DB4-938E-4E27-BF8B-4F305C621E63@me.com>

Wow? I never said that, Paul. I never even came close to inferring it.

On Feb 21, 2014, at 10:10 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:

> I know now that the aptitude purge command is different than the dpkg purge command. Do you think that I am to dumb to use Debian? I guess I never went to a university and my mind is not very fast. Oh well this is a wonderful helpful user group though. I would like to someday know how to actually use a computer and write drivers. It takes alot of skill to be where you are all at. I just want a chance. I get so confused.
> 
> Thank You.
> 
> From: ryanjcole at me.com
> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:54:32 -0600
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
> 
> My point, which I failed to make, (BAD RYAN) was there?s really no such thing "as over my head? in this world. If you have someone willing to lead you through the doors you need you?ll be perfectly fine. I also forgot on the list CentOS and Fedora. Rarely I?ve been asked to touch an AUX box.
> 
> On Feb 21, 2014, at 9:52 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com> wrote:
> 
> I started in the days of non-auto-fetching RPMs and RedHat 4.2 in 1999. After a hacking in 2002 and Earthlink?s lack of interest in enforcing their terms of service I switched over to BSD.
> 
> I occasionally use SUSE, Ubuntu and RHLE installations these days but I?m still a BSD user. Primarily because my machines don?t need GUIs. Then again, I?ve never been one to use the word ?noob? for anything other than smoting when I played WOW and Halo.
> 

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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Fri Feb 21 22:19:33 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 22:19:33 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <21AA3DB4-938E-4E27-BF8B-4F305C621E63@me.com>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W57B5A3309942CF64D342599840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212033040.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W517F0BCE1DB5370D3BFB8999840@phx.gbl>
 <CAJdTJyP9t1tRWSGJxb4H3q73YcdymvSGGWBHN8=kU_YYwvxsag@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJdTJyPPp3-JDvqQbVj0ORLat0eDU_eogWfQs6g34hK+GtiV3g@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212106350.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W38A9CA19379C207640455799840@phx.gbl>
 <BAY175-W38FF7D0D8C76222A8BB62099840@phx.gbl>
 <43D92D1A-FB43-4BB8-8E75-B3924A5F3DD2@me.com>
 <A2852B17-03B1-4066-999F-C5E86DD60ADA@me.com>
 <BAY175-W33A40571575EF1323FAF4099840@phx.gbl>
 <21AA3DB4-938E-4E27-BF8B-4F305C621E63@me.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212214540.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>

He'd be the one inferring, you'd be implying (;

Paul, I never went to university either. Well, I went to them, but I 
wasn't registered. I just used to sneak into the computer labs and play 
around on the internet. I didn't have a choice, there were no ISPs back 
then! That's really how I got into UNIX, watching other people using SunOS 
and IRIX and playing on the NeXTStations and I'm totally dating myself 
now, aren't I (;

We're all here to answer questions, especially Ryan q:

On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote:

> Wow? I never said that, Paul. I never even came close to inferring it.
> On Feb 21, 2014, at 10:10 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>       I know now that the aptitude purge command is different than the
>       dpkg purge command. Do you think that I am to dumb to use
>       Debian? I guess I never went to a university and my mind is not
>       very fast. Oh well this is a wonderful helpful user group
>       though. I would like to someday know how to actually use a
>       computer and write drivers. It takes alot of skill to be where
>       you are all at. I just want a chance. I get so confused.
>
>       Thank You.
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________________
>       From: ryanjcole at me.com
>       Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:54:32 -0600
>       To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>       Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for
>       basic use?
>
>       My point, which I failed to make, (BAD RYAN) was there?s really
>       no such thing "as over my head? in this world. If you have
>       someone willing to lead you through the doors you need you?ll be
>       perfectly fine. I also forgot on the list CentOS and Fedora.
>       Rarely I?ve been asked to touch an AUX box.
>       On Feb 21, 2014, at 9:52 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com>
>       wrote:
>
>       I started in the days of non-auto-fetching RPMs and RedHat
>       4.2 in 1999. After a hacking in 2002 and Earthlink?s lack
>       of interest in enforcing their terms of service I switched
>       over to BSD.
> I occasionally use SUSE, Ubuntu and RHLE installations these
> days but I?m still a BSD user. Primarily because my machines
> don?t need GUIs. Then again, I?ve never been one to use the word
> ?noob? for anything other than smoting when I played WOW and
> Halo.
> 
> 
> 
>

From rick at tanners.org  Fri Feb 21 22:14:33 2014
From: rick at tanners.org (Richard Tanner)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 22:14:33 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <53082429.1010409@tanners.org>

On 2/21/14 8:19 PM, paul g wrote:
> For a basic home/office computer user running an older FireFox version
> say '20.0' under Ubuntu 10.04 etc '2.6.-- kernel' will new web pages and
> webpage design soon require the need for a later version of FireFox or
> Opera to 'surf' the web? 

That version of browser will likely render web pages just fine for a
long time to come.

But, there are numerous security updates for known vulnerabilities that
have been patched with later versions of Firefox. The list can be found
here:

http://www.mozilla.org/security/known-vulnerabilities/firefox.html

IMO, one should upgrade Firefox because of that list.



From rick at tanners.org  Fri Feb 21 22:22:08 2014
From: rick at tanners.org (Richard Tanner)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 22:22:08 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] A question about dpkg
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W18D8B115FD955F2DFEB09099850@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W18D8B115FD955F2DFEB09099850@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <530825F0.10205@tanners.org>

On 2/20/14 11:44 PM, paul g wrote:
> I have a computer running Ubuntu 10.04 and have removed most of the
> images using the following command in bash     sudo aptitude search
> linux-image | grep -E "^i"

Every few months, once I test & know I have a solid working kernel, I
follow the steps listed at this site to clean up old kernels.

http://ubuntugenius.wordpress.com/2011/01/08/ubuntu-cleanup-how-to-remove-all-unused-linux-kernel-headers-images-and-modules/

Which says:

dpkg -l 'linux-*' | sed '/^ii/!d;/'"$(uname -r | sed
"s/\(.*\)-\([^0-9]\+\)/\1/")"'/d;s/^[^ ]* [^ ]* \([^
]*\).*/\1/;/[0-9]/!d' | xargs sudo apt-get -y purge








From ryanjcole at me.com  Fri Feb 21 22:22:37 2014
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 22:22:37 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] [pfSense] configuring OPT1 as hosted services
 firewall?
In-Reply-To: <CAKOK-RwL5p0ojNMPAhkMc1FkaV+e9hkVmDeYWbggAKKRaNhNmw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2BBF4EA9-0DA9-4C8E-9F6F-28E656C2DBFB@me.com>
 <CAKOK-RwL5p0ojNMPAhkMc1FkaV+e9hkVmDeYWbggAKKRaNhNmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0142D9AC-B6BD-4C52-8E7C-0E1D44EA3414@me.com>

Yeah, one bad apple spoils the bunch?


On Feb 20, 2014, at 3:51 PM, Ryan Dunlop <ryan.c.dunlop at gmail.com> wrote:

> The folks over at http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.comp.security.firewalls.pfsense.general  are real quick to respond to issues like this.  I would give them a shot.  
> 
> 
> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 11:21 AM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com> wrote:
> I know some of us use pfSense here and I?ve only used it for single-IP functions and for auto-sensing internet paths if a site doesn?t have a static address at the time of programming.
> 
> I?m moving away from single server design on my ESXi box to dedicated guests for each service but I cannot seem to get those dedicated services through the firewall.
> 
> I have a 29bit subnet (IPs 1 through 5). Everything is internal to the ESXi (5.1) server.
> 
> .1 = pfSense Firewall
> .2 = OPT1 interface on pfSense
> .3 = Customer VM (will port over to OPT2 after this works)
> .4 = All-in-one hosted VM
> .5 = Same All-in-one hosted VM
> 
> I am going to eliminate .4 and .5 as I pull specific services out and into VMs (I?ve already moved the basic part of the FTP, the entire SQL server and LDAP to internal systems).
> 
> But whenever I set up NAT rules on .2 it seems to be using .1?s stuff.
> 
> I will have the following pushed through:
> FTP
> WWW (one primary, each subserver has functioning Apache for their services)
> IMAP SSL/SMTP
> SSH (via pushed ports to each server)
> 
> Any thoughts would be helpful. The biggest thing I need to get running now is the FTP part - I cannot get it to push through nor will it register on the firewall log that it?s being blocked.
> ?
> Ryan
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From ryanjcole at me.com  Fri Feb 21 22:30:09 2014
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 22:30:09 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212214540.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W57B5A3309942CF64D342599840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212033040.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W517F0BCE1DB5370D3BFB8999840@phx.gbl>
 <CAJdTJyP9t1tRWSGJxb4H3q73YcdymvSGGWBHN8=kU_YYwvxsag@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJdTJyPPp3-JDvqQbVj0ORLat0eDU_eogWfQs6g34hK+GtiV3g@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212106350.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W38A9CA19379C207640455799840@phx.gbl>
 <BAY175-W38FF7D0D8C76222A8BB62099840@phx.gbl>
 <43D92D1A-FB43-4BB8-8E75-B3924A5F3DD2@me.com>
 <A2852B17-03B1-4066-999F-C5E86DD60ADA@me.com>
 <BAY175-W33A40571575EF1323FAF4099840@phx.gbl>
 <21AA3DB4-938E-4E27-BF8B-4F305C621E63@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212214540.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <90A245D5-0D2D-4F45-9444-0DA1191B45CF@me.com>

You?d think spending years as a copy editor I?d remember that one? almost always gets past me. Thanks :)

I?ve been helped so much by my mentor that I do what I can to help others out. I don?t find questions as too stupid, moronic or uninvited?  and I have no patience for people that belittle others in that manner - just pull up the general questions list for pfSense. I have limited interest in working with AHs when I can avoid it.

I was just pointing out that there?s no mountain so high you cannot climb it when it comes to a basic install. If you are going into the deeper stuff like I work on (DNS, LDAP, FTP, SQL, etc.) there might as well be and with that you definitely want someone to bounce questions off of.

On Feb 21, 2014, at 10:19 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
> He'd be the one inferring, you'd be implying (;
> 
> Paul, I never went to university either. Well, I went to them, but I wasn't registered. I just used to sneak into the computer labs and play around on the internet. I didn't have a choice, there were no ISPs back then! That's really how I got into UNIX, watching other people using SunOS and IRIX and playing on the NeXTStations and I'm totally dating myself now, aren't I (;
> 
> We're all here to answer questions, especially Ryan q:
> 
> On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> 
>> Wow? I never said that, Paul. I never even came close to inferring it.
>> On Feb 21, 2014, at 10:10 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>      I know now that the aptitude purge command is different than the
>>      dpkg purge command. Do you think that I am to dumb to use
>>      Debian? I guess I never went to a university and my mind is not
>>      very fast. Oh well this is a wonderful helpful user group
>>      though. I would like to someday know how to actually use a
>>      computer and write drivers. It takes alot of skill to be where
>>      you are all at. I just want a chance. I get so confused.
>> 
>>      Thank You.
>> ____________________________________________________________________________
>>      From: ryanjcole at me.com
>>      Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:54:32 -0600
>>      To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>      Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for
>>      basic use?
>> 
>>      My point, which I failed to make, (BAD RYAN) was there?s really
>>      no such thing "as over my head? in this world. If you have
>>      someone willing to lead you through the doors you need you?ll be
>>      perfectly fine. I also forgot on the list CentOS and Fedora.
>>      Rarely I?ve been asked to touch an AUX box.
>>      On Feb 21, 2014, at 9:52 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com>
>>      wrote:
>> 
>>      I started in the days of non-auto-fetching RPMs and RedHat
>>      4.2 in 1999. After a hacking in 2002 and Earthlink?s lack
>>      of interest in enforcing their terms of service I switched
>>      over to BSD.
>> I occasionally use SUSE, Ubuntu and RHLE installations these
>> days but I?m still a BSD user. Primarily because my machines
>> don?t need GUIs. Then again, I?ve never been one to use the word
>> ?noob? for anything other than smoting when I played WOW and
>> Halo.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From tclug at freakzilla.com  Fri Feb 21 22:33:24 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 22:33:24 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <90A245D5-0D2D-4F45-9444-0DA1191B45CF@me.com>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W57B5A3309942CF64D342599840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212033040.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W517F0BCE1DB5370D3BFB8999840@phx.gbl>
 <CAJdTJyP9t1tRWSGJxb4H3q73YcdymvSGGWBHN8=kU_YYwvxsag@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJdTJyPPp3-JDvqQbVj0ORLat0eDU_eogWfQs6g34hK+GtiV3g@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212106350.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W38A9CA19379C207640455799840@phx.gbl>
 <BAY175-W38FF7D0D8C76222A8BB62099840@phx.gbl>
 <43D92D1A-FB43-4BB8-8E75-B3924A5F3DD2@me.com>
 <A2852B17-03B1-4066-999F-C5E86DD60ADA@me.com>
 <BAY175-W33A40571575EF1323FAF4099840@phx.gbl>
 <21AA3DB4-938E-4E27-BF8B-4F305C621E63@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212214540.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <90A245D5-0D2D-4F45-9444-0DA1191B45CF@me.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212232520.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>

I was reinforcing your point (: Some of us really like helping people.

On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote:

> You?d think spending years as a copy editor I?d remember that one? almost always gets past me. Thanks :)
>
> I?ve been helped so much by my mentor that I do what I can to help others out. I don?t find questions as too stupid, moronic or uninvited?  and I have no patience for people that belittle others in that manner - just pull up the general questions list for pfSense. I have limited interest in working with AHs when I can avoid it.
>
> I was just pointing out that there?s no mountain so high you cannot climb it when it comes to a basic install. If you are going into the deeper stuff like I work on (DNS, LDAP, FTP, SQL, etc.) there might as well be and with that you definitely want someone to bounce questions off of.
>
> On Feb 21, 2014, at 10:19 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
>> He'd be the one inferring, you'd be implying (;
>>
>> Paul, I never went to university either. Well, I went to them, but I wasn't registered. I just used to sneak into the computer labs and play around on the internet. I didn't have a choice, there were no ISPs back then! That's really how I got into UNIX, watching other people using SunOS and IRIX and playing on the NeXTStations and I'm totally dating myself now, aren't I (;
>>
>> We're all here to answer questions, especially Ryan q:
>>
>> On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>>
>>> Wow? I never said that, Paul. I never even came close to inferring it.
>>> On Feb 21, 2014, at 10:10 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>      I know now that the aptitude purge command is different than the
>>>      dpkg purge command. Do you think that I am to dumb to use
>>>      Debian? I guess I never went to a university and my mind is not
>>>      very fast. Oh well this is a wonderful helpful user group
>>>      though. I would like to someday know how to actually use a
>>>      computer and write drivers. It takes alot of skill to be where
>>>      you are all at. I just want a chance. I get so confused.
>>>
>>>      Thank You.
>>> ____________________________________________________________________________
>>>      From: ryanjcole at me.com
>>>      Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:54:32 -0600
>>>      To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>      Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for
>>>      basic use?
>>>
>>>      My point, which I failed to make, (BAD RYAN) was there?s really
>>>      no such thing "as over my head? in this world. If you have
>>>      someone willing to lead you through the doors you need you?ll be
>>>      perfectly fine. I also forgot on the list CentOS and Fedora.
>>>      Rarely I?ve been asked to touch an AUX box.
>>>      On Feb 21, 2014, at 9:52 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com>
>>>      wrote:
>>>
>>>      I started in the days of non-auto-fetching RPMs and RedHat
>>>      4.2 in 1999. After a hacking in 2002 and Earthlink?s lack
>>>      of interest in enforcing their terms of service I switched
>>>      over to BSD.
>>> I occasionally use SUSE, Ubuntu and RHLE installations these
>>> days but I?m still a BSD user. Primarily because my machines
>>> don?t need GUIs. Then again, I?ve never been one to use the word
>>> ?noob? for anything other than smoting when I played WOW and
>>> Halo.
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From pj.world at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 21 23:02:20 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 23:02:20 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212232520.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <BAY175-W57B5A3309942CF64D342599840@phx.gbl>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212033040.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <BAY175-W517F0BCE1DB5370D3BFB8999840@phx.gbl>,
 <CAJdTJyP9t1tRWSGJxb4H3q73YcdymvSGGWBHN8=kU_YYwvxsag@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAJdTJyPPp3-JDvqQbVj0ORLat0eDU_eogWfQs6g34hK+GtiV3g@mail.gmail.com>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212106350.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <BAY175-W38A9CA19379C207640455799840@phx.gbl>,
 <BAY175-W38FF7D0D8C76222A8BB62099840@phx.gbl>,
 <43D92D1A-FB43-4BB8-8E75-B3924A5F3DD2@me.com>,
 <A2852B17-03B1-4066-999F-C5E86DD60ADA@me.com>,
 <BAY175-W33A40571575EF1323FAF4099840@phx.gbl>,
 <21AA3DB4-938E-4E27-BF8B-4F305C621E63@me.com>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212214540.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <90A245D5-0D2D-4F45-9444-0DA1191B45CF@me.com>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212232520.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <BAY175-W30E9B11F739217F3CF7D0499840@phx.gbl>

No I just like you fellers helping out like you do. I have so many questions I feel ashamed to ask them all. Thank you Ryan for your support with freeBSD. freakzilla your great also. Can we please keep this topic open so I can read more. Thanks, with honest standards in computer use no one can be put to shame. 

Thank you.

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 22:33:24 -0600
From: tclug at freakzilla.com
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?

I was reinforcing your point (: Some of us really like helping people.
 
On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote:
 
> You?d think spending years as a copy editor I?d remember that one? almost always gets past me. Thanks :)
>
> I?ve been helped so much by my mentor that I do what I can to help others out. I don?t find questions as too stupid, moronic or uninvited?  and I have no patience for people that belittle others in that manner - just pull up the general questions list for pfSense. I have limited interest in working with AHs when I can avoid it.
>
> I was just pointing out that there?s no mountain so high you cannot climb it when it comes to a basic install. If you are going into the deeper stuff like I work on (DNS, LDAP, FTP, SQL, etc.) there might as well be and with that you definitely want someone to bounce questions off of.
>
> On Feb 21, 2014, at 10:19 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
>> He'd be the one inferring, you'd be implying (;
>>
>> Paul, I never went to university either. Well, I went to them, but I wasn't registered. I just used to sneak into the computer labs and play around on the internet. I didn't have a choice, there were no ISPs back then! That's really how I got into UNIX, watching other people using SunOS and IRIX and playing on the NeXTStations and I'm totally dating myself now, aren't I (;
>>
>> We're all here to answer questions, especially Ryan q:
>>
>> On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>>
>>> Wow? I never said that, Paul. I never even came close to inferring it.
>>> On Feb 21, 2014, at 10:10 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>      I know now that the aptitude purge command is different than the
>>>      dpkg purge command. Do you think that I am to dumb to use
>>>      Debian? I guess I never went to a university and my mind is not
>>>      very fast. Oh well this is a wonderful helpful user group
>>>      though. I would like to someday know how to actually use a
>>>      computer and write drivers. It takes alot of skill to be where
>>>      you are all at. I just want a chance. I get so confused.
>>>
>>>      Thank You.
>>> ____________________________________________________________________________
>>>      From: ryanjcole at me.com
>>>      Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:54:32 -0600
>>>      To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>      Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for
>>>      basic use?
>>>
>>>      My point, which I failed to make, (BAD RYAN) was there?s really
>>>      no such thing "as over my head? in this world. If you have
>>>      someone willing to lead you through the doors you need you?ll be
>>>      perfectly fine. I also forgot on the list CentOS and Fedora.
>>>      Rarely I?ve been asked to touch an AUX box.
>>>      On Feb 21, 2014, at 9:52 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com>
>>>      wrote:
>>>
>>>      I started in the days of non-auto-fetching RPMs and RedHat
>>>      4.2 in 1999. After a hacking in 2002 and Earthlink?s lack
>>>      of interest in enforcing their terms of service I switched
>>>      over to BSD.
>>> I occasionally use SUSE, Ubuntu and RHLE installations these
>>> days but I?m still a BSD user. Primarily because my machines
>>> don?t need GUIs. Then again, I?ve never been one to use the word
>>> ?noob? for anything other than smoting when I played WOW and
>>> Halo.
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 		 	   		  
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From pj.world at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 21 23:13:06 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 23:13:06 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <90A245D5-0D2D-4F45-9444-0DA1191B45CF@me.com>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <BAY175-W57B5A3309942CF64D342599840@phx.gbl>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212033040.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <BAY175-W517F0BCE1DB5370D3BFB8999840@phx.gbl>,
 <CAJdTJyP9t1tRWSGJxb4H3q73YcdymvSGGWBHN8=kU_YYwvxsag@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAJdTJyPPp3-JDvqQbVj0ORLat0eDU_eogWfQs6g34hK+GtiV3g@mail.gmail.com>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212106350.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <BAY175-W38A9CA19379C207640455799840@phx.gbl>,
 <BAY175-W38FF7D0D8C76222A8BB62099840@phx.gbl>,
 <43D92D1A-FB43-4BB8-8E75-B3924A5F3DD2@me.com>,
 <A2852B17-03B1-4066-999F-C5E86DD60ADA@me.com>,
 <BAY175-W33A40571575EF1323FAF4099840@phx.gbl>,
 <21AA3DB4-938E-4E27-BF8B-4F305C621E63@me.com>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212214540.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <90A245D5-0D2D-4F45-9444-0DA1191B45CF@me.com>
Message-ID: <BAY175-W4745E2C51B67114B82DFB399840@phx.gbl>

Ryan can I run an older p3 system with a ralink wireless card? Using Free BSD . I should be quiet now I know your time is important.

> From: ryanjcole at me.com
> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 22:30:09 -0600
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
> 
> You?d think spending years as a copy editor I?d remember that one? almost always gets past me. Thanks :)
> 
> I?ve been helped so much by my mentor that I do what I can to help others out. I don?t find questions as too stupid, moronic or uninvited?  and I have no patience for people that belittle others in that manner - just pull up the general questions list for pfSense. I have limited interest in working with AHs when I can avoid it.
> 
> I was just pointing out that there?s no mountain so high you cannot climb it when it comes to a basic install. If you are going into the deeper stuff like I work on (DNS, LDAP, FTP, SQL, etc.) there might as well be and with that you definitely want someone to bounce questions off of.
> 
> On Feb 21, 2014, at 10:19 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
> > He'd be the one inferring, you'd be implying (;
> > 
> > Paul, I never went to university either. Well, I went to them, but I wasn't registered. I just used to sneak into the computer labs and play around on the internet. I didn't have a choice, there were no ISPs back then! That's really how I got into UNIX, watching other people using SunOS and IRIX and playing on the NeXTStations and I'm totally dating myself now, aren't I (;
> > 
> > We're all here to answer questions, especially Ryan q:
> > 
> > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> > 
> >> Wow? I never said that, Paul. I never even came close to inferring it.
> >> On Feb 21, 2014, at 10:10 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >>      I know now that the aptitude purge command is different than the
> >>      dpkg purge command. Do you think that I am to dumb to use
> >>      Debian? I guess I never went to a university and my mind is not
> >>      very fast. Oh well this is a wonderful helpful user group
> >>      though. I would like to someday know how to actually use a
> >>      computer and write drivers. It takes alot of skill to be where
> >>      you are all at. I just want a chance. I get so confused.
> >> 
> >>      Thank You.
> >> ____________________________________________________________________________
> >>      From: ryanjcole at me.com
> >>      Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:54:32 -0600
> >>      To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >>      Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for
> >>      basic use?
> >> 
> >>      My point, which I failed to make, (BAD RYAN) was there?s really
> >>      no such thing "as over my head? in this world. If you have
> >>      someone willing to lead you through the doors you need you?ll be
> >>      perfectly fine. I also forgot on the list CentOS and Fedora.
> >>      Rarely I?ve been asked to touch an AUX box.
> >>      On Feb 21, 2014, at 9:52 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com>
> >>      wrote:
> >> 
> >>      I started in the days of non-auto-fetching RPMs and RedHat
> >>      4.2 in 1999. After a hacking in 2002 and Earthlink?s lack
> >>      of interest in enforcing their terms of service I switched
> >>      over to BSD.
> >> I occasionally use SUSE, Ubuntu and RHLE installations these
> >> days but I?m still a BSD user. Primarily because my machines
> >> don?t need GUIs. Then again, I?ve never been one to use the word
> >> ?noob? for anything other than smoting when I played WOW and
> >> Halo.
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
 		 	   		  
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From ryanjcole at me.com  Sat Feb 22 05:21:20 2014
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 05:21:20 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W4745E2C51B67114B82DFB399840@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W57B5A3309942CF64D342599840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212033040.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W517F0BCE1DB5370D3BFB8999840@phx.gbl>
 <CAJdTJyP9t1tRWSGJxb4H3q73YcdymvSGGWBHN8=kU_YYwvxsag@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJdTJyPPp3-JDvqQbVj0ORLat0eDU_eogWfQs6g34hK+GtiV3g@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212106350.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W38A9CA19379C207640455799840@phx.gbl>
 <BAY175-W38FF7D0D8C76222A8BB62099840@phx.gbl>
 <43D92D1A-FB43-4BB8-8E75-B3924A5F3DD2@me.com>
 <A2852B17-03B1-4066-999F-C5E86DD60ADA@me.com>
 <BAY175-W33A40571575EF1323FAF4099840@phx.gbl>
 <21AA3DB4-938E-4E27-BF8B-4F305C621E63@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212214540.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <90A245D5-0D2D-4F45-9444-0DA1191B45CF@me.com>
 <BAY175-W4745E2C51B67114B82DFB399840@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <70B2FB55-9A22-43FF-904A-19734251B383@me.com>

Probably but in my opinion FreeBSD is not a desktop OS. Setting up a GUI is a royal pain.

On Feb 21, 2014, at 11:13 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Ryan can I run an older p3 system with a ralink wireless card? Using Free BSD . I should be quiet now I know your time is important.
> 
> > From: ryanjcole at me.com
> > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 22:30:09 -0600
> > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
> > 
> > You?d think spending years as a copy editor I?d remember that one? almost always gets past me. Thanks :)
> > 
> > I?ve been helped so much by my mentor that I do what I can to help others out. I don?t find questions as too stupid, moronic or uninvited? and I have no patience for people that belittle others in that manner - just pull up the general questions list for pfSense. I have limited interest in working with AHs when I can avoid it.
> > 
> > I was just pointing out that there?s no mountain so high you cannot climb it when it comes to a basic install. If you are going into the deeper stuff like I work on (DNS, LDAP, FTP, SQL, etc.) there might as well be and with that you definitely want someone to bounce questions off of.
> > 
> > On Feb 21, 2014, at 10:19 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
> > > He'd be the one inferring, you'd be implying (;
> > > 
> > > Paul, I never went to university either. Well, I went to them, but I wasn't registered. I just used to sneak into the computer labs and play around on the internet. I didn't have a choice, there were no ISPs back then! That's really how I got into UNIX, watching other people using SunOS and IRIX and playing on the NeXTStations and I'm totally dating myself now, aren't I (;
> > > 
> > > We're all here to answer questions, especially Ryan q:
> > > 
> > > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> > > 
> > >> Wow? I never said that, Paul. I never even came close to inferring it.
> > >> On Feb 21, 2014, at 10:10 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >> 
> > >> I know now that the aptitude purge command is different than the
> > >> dpkg purge command. Do you think that I am to dumb to use
> > >> Debian? I guess I never went to a university and my mind is not
> > >> very fast. Oh well this is a wonderful helpful user group
> > >> though. I would like to someday know how to actually use a
> > >> computer and write drivers. It takes alot of skill to be where
> > >> you are all at. I just want a chance. I get so confused.
> > >> 
> > >> Thank You.
> > >> ____________________________________________________________________________
> > >> From: ryanjcole at me.com
> > >> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:54:32 -0600
> > >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for
> > >> basic use?
> > >> 
> > >> My point, which I failed to make, (BAD RYAN) was there?s really
> > >> no such thing "as over my head? in this world. If you have
> > >> someone willing to lead you through the doors you need you?ll be
> > >> perfectly fine. I also forgot on the list CentOS and Fedora.
> > >> Rarely I?ve been asked to touch an AUX box.
> > >> On Feb 21, 2014, at 9:52 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> 
> > >> I started in the days of non-auto-fetching RPMs and RedHat
> > >> 4.2 in 1999. After a hacking in 2002 and Earthlink?s lack
> > >> of interest in enforcing their terms of service I switched
> > >> over to BSD.
> > >> I occasionally use SUSE, Ubuntu and RHLE installations these
> > >> days but I?m still a BSD user. Primarily because my machines
> > >> don?t need GUIs. Then again, I?ve never been one to use the word
> > >> ?noob? for anything other than smoting when I played WOW and
> > >> Halo.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From david.wagle at gmail.com  Sat Feb 22 10:19:59 2014
From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 10:19:59 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W33A40571575EF1323FAF4099840@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W57B5A3309942CF64D342599840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212033040.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W517F0BCE1DB5370D3BFB8999840@phx.gbl>
 <CAJdTJyP9t1tRWSGJxb4H3q73YcdymvSGGWBHN8=kU_YYwvxsag@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJdTJyPPp3-JDvqQbVj0ORLat0eDU_eogWfQs6g34hK+GtiV3g@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212106350.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W38A9CA19379C207640455799840@phx.gbl>
 <BAY175-W38FF7D0D8C76222A8BB62099840@phx.gbl>
 <43D92D1A-FB43-4BB8-8E75-B3924A5F3DD2@me.com>
 <A2852B17-03B1-4066-999F-C5E86DD60ADA@me.com>
 <BAY175-W33A40571575EF1323FAF4099840@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAJdTJyPETk7WJGz7e6CAbMtvHaW76H7Wkz=SJnMsfj6quMfxHA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 10:10 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:

>  I would like to someday know how to actually use a computer and write
> drivers. It takes alot of skill to be where you are all at. I just want a
> chance. I get so confused.
>


I learned how to write kernel drivers back in the days of 0.99, which is so
long ago that everything I "know" is obsolete and wrong. But the way to
learn how to do that stuff is to just do it.

Set up a VM and start playing around with the low level component parts.
Take things apart, break them,  put them back together again. Make
mistakes, get messy,  get confused and then find answers to your confusion.
Do insane things that people tell you are impossible to find out either why
it's impossible or better yet, prove them wrong.

No one ever became a competent hacker (in the 'clever and insightful
programmer' sense not the illegal sense) without diving in and taking
risks.

If you've never programmed anything before, go to EdX adn sign up for basic
computer courses like 6.00.1x which is a great way to  learn both
programming and python.

Don't say "i'm not smart enough," or any of that stuff. Being good at this
stuff isn't really about smarts, it's about learning how the pieces fit
together and that happens not because we're supper smart, but because we
spend time looking at how the pieces fit together.  And if you do the same
thing, you'll figure it out too!!




>
> Thank You.
>
> ------------------------------
> From: ryanjcole at me.com
> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:54:32 -0600
>
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
>
> My point, which I failed to make, (BAD RYAN) was there's really no such
> thing "as over my head" in this world. If you have someone willing to lead
> you through the doors you need you'll be perfectly fine. I also forgot on
> the list CentOS and Fedora. Rarely I've been asked to touch an AUX box.
>
> On Feb 21, 2014, at 9:52 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com> wrote:
>
> I started in the days of non-auto-fetching RPMs and RedHat 4.2 in 1999.
> After a hacking in 2002 and Earthlink's lack of interest in enforcing their
> terms of service I switched over to BSD.
>
> I occasionally use SUSE, Ubuntu and RHLE installations these days but I'm
> still a BSD user. Primarily because my machines don't need GUIs. Then
> again, I've never been one to use the word "noob" for anything other than
> smoting when I played WOW and Halo.
>
> On Feb 21, 2014, at 9:47 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I may have been mistaken because the laptop was 'dd' from a 64 bit image
> of Debian. A seperate machine. I do know that Debian is over my head as far
> as being a noob. Again I apologize for bothering anyone. I would like to
> learn a bit and thanks for helping.
>
> Thank You.
>
> ------------------------------
> From: pj.world at hotmail.com
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:43:04 -0600
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
>
> I have read from the responses so far..   Another question if I may is-
> how secure can a basic noob user like me 'depending on my x5070 printer'
> each day. Make the 2.6.--- kernel become more hardened? Can I install a
> newer version of Firefox on the Ubuntu Lucid-Lynx 10.04 running kernel
> 2.6.32-57-generic? A mechanic a bodyman can fix panels that are in a trash
> can and I can do that. So I understand that alot of work goes into building
> drivers for 'printers' and 'cups' is still a learning experience. I would
> like your help.
>
> Thank You.
>
> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 21:12:01 -0600
> From: tclug at freakzilla.com
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
>
> Sorry, no. That's like me saying "I'm a new driver maybe I should try
> driving stick" and you suggesting I build an F-18 from scratch and then
> drop off a cliff with it.
>
> I've been using Linux since before there were distributions, and there's a
> reason I use Ubuntu. I can get it to do what I want WITHOUT wanting to
> shoot myself.
>
> I've always thought Arch was interesting, and a bit ago decided to give it
> a try. So I set up a VM, pointed it at the Arch installaiton medium and
> watched it not even be able to get past it's own setup.
>
> You can be an extremely skilled Linux user (and UNIX admin) without ever
> touching anything like Arch. It helps to know how to build your own stuff,
> of course, and knowing the internals, but, again, that's like asking a
> mechanic to manufacture parts themselves.
>
>
> On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, David Wagle wrote:
>
> > Alternately, if you want to put in the work to not be a noob any longer, you
> > could take the plunge into an Arch distribution. It's actually not as hard
> > as it might seem at first, and you will be guaranteed to end up with the
> > most efficient system you can build on that box :)
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 9:01 PM, David Wagle <david.wagle at gmail.com> wrote:
> >       The issue with performance in Ubuntu is almost entirely due to
> >       the window manager and has really nothing to do with the other
> >       software versions. You can keep the  core "ubuntu" elements the
> >       same and  upgrade the rest of the software quite easily.
> > Alternately, you can try something more lightweight -- Mint 16 with
> > Xfce is basically Ubunutu with a a lightweight desktop. That's what I
> > run on my daughter's very ancient Macbook and it's actually quite
> > zippy
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 8:46 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >       You know I dabbled a bit with OpenSUSE. I just don't have
> >       the experience with windows managers. I even set-up a
> >       sli-taz machine. I really need nothing off the computer
> >       but I like the fact that the 10.04 is so well documented ,
> >       yes I know it's old I guess it gives me a noober a sense
> >       of comfort somehow that I do just not get with the latest
> >       releases. The 'dd' command works fine for me. I even
> >       recently learned that in order to install Debian Wheezy
> >       7.0 or whatnot I needed to partition the thumb drive for
> >       MS-Dos 16 not Fat32 to copy the image. Any reccomendations
> >       for a noob like me as far as a newer operating system on
> >       my laptop would be wonderful. Thank you for your time I
> >       wish I knew more.
> >
> >       Thank You.
> >
> >       > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:38:26 -0600
> >       > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
> >       > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >       > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become
> >       obselete for basic use?
> >       >
> >       > I don't know that they'd remove a printer driver...
> >       >
> >       > I've been using Ubuntu for many years, but I've never
> >       used Gnome, Unity or
> >       > KDE (I use Window Maker, as I have since 1996!). I'm
> >       lead to believe you
> >       > can get the "Classic" Gnome on the newer Ubuntus. It was
> >       announced very
> >       > recently that they're turning back from that stupid
> >       integrated menubar
> >       > thing, too.
> >       >
> >       > If you have the resources to make a bit-by-bit copy of
> >       your harddrive, you
> >       > can always try upgrading and then downgrade back if you
> >       don't like it. I'd
> >       > say try a live install on a USB thumbdrive, but that
> >       will for SURE be
> >       > slow.
> >       >
> >       > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
> >       >
> >       > > Yes, and thank you for asking. I am running this older
> >       version of Ubuntu on
> >       > > a Centrino Duo Laptop. I guess because I was so
> >       unimpressed with the 12.04
> >       > > performance on my old p4 tower. Also I have an older
> >       Lexmark x5070 printer
> >       > > that has a driver for the 10.04 Ubuntu. I don't like
> >       Gnome 3 maybe i'm just
> >       > > slow and I am not really used to KDE. Any suggestions
> >       would be wonderful.
> >       > >
> >       > > Thank You.
> >       > >
> >       > > > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:24:28 -0600
> >       > > > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
> >       > > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >       > > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become
> >       obselete for basic use?
> >       > > >
> >       > > > Might be some small things that won't work, but in
> >       general you should be
> >       > > > fine.
> >       > > >
> >       > > > Of course, as time goes on, those small things will
> >       get bigger and bigger.
> >       > > > Still, basic HTML with basic javascript should be
> >       fine for a long time. It
> >       > > > all depends on what kind of content you want.
> >       > > >
> >       > > > May I ask why you're running such an old version of
> >       Ubuntu?
> >       > > >
> >       > > > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
> >       > > >
> >       > > > > For a basic home/office computer user running an
> >       older FireFox version
> >       > > say
> >       > > > > '20.0' under Ubuntu 10.04 etc '2.6.-- kernel' will
> >       new web pages and
> >       > > webpage
> >       > > > > design soon require the need for a later version
> >       of FireFox or Opera to
> >       > > > > 'surf' the web? Just a curious question I am a
> >       noob.
> >       > > > >
> >       > > > > Thank You.
> >       > > > >
> >       > > > >
> >       > > > _______________________________________________
> >       > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >       > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >       > > >
> >       http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > _______________________________________________
> >       > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >       > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >       > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List -
> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List -
> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List -
> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From david.wagle at gmail.com  Sat Feb 22 11:46:15 2014
From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 11:46:15 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212106350.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W57B5A3309942CF64D342599840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212033040.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W517F0BCE1DB5370D3BFB8999840@phx.gbl>
 <CAJdTJyP9t1tRWSGJxb4H3q73YcdymvSGGWBHN8=kU_YYwvxsag@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJdTJyPPp3-JDvqQbVj0ORLat0eDU_eogWfQs6g34hK+GtiV3g@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212106350.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <CAJdTJyOHe-XQ8cHqCzZUYkQCaBr7ys6NnNeeGSgnQjDWbRygEw@mail.gmail.com>

I'll continue to disagree. If someone  wants to learn how to administer a
unix system well, the best thing to do is to remove all the user-space
cruft and let them learn how to administer a bare bones system from the
ground up.

I use Mint -- so I'm not against user friendliness. But anyone who wants to
learn how to do this stuff well really should stay away from the distros
aimed at users and focus on the one's aimed at sys-admins.

And doing it in a VM at first is a very good idea if one doesn't have a
junk computer laying around to play with.

Basically it's equivilant of saying "hey, you want to learn how to fix your
own car, then buy an old car that is entirely user-serviceable and fix it."
 Sure it's a lot of work, but when you finish, you will know how every
piece fits together and that knowledge is transferable to the more
user-friendly distros.


On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 9:12 PM, <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:

> Sorry, no. That's like me saying "I'm a new driver maybe I should try
> driving stick" and you suggesting I build an F-18 from scratch and then
> drop off a cliff with it.
>
> I've been using Linux since before there were distributions, and there's a
> reason I use Ubuntu. I can get it to do what I want WITHOUT wanting to
> shoot myself.
>
> I've always thought Arch was interesting, and a bit ago decided to give it
> a try. So I set up a VM, pointed it at the Arch installaiton medium and
> watched it not even be able to get past it's own setup.
>
> You can be an extremely skilled Linux user (and UNIX admin) without ever
> touching anything like Arch. It helps to know how to build your own stuff,
> of course, and knowing the internals, but, again, that's like asking a
> mechanic to manufacture parts themselves.
>
>
>
> On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, David Wagle wrote:
>
>  Alternately, if you want to put in the work to not be a noob any longer,
>> you
>> could take the plunge into an Arch distribution. It's actually not as hard
>> as it might seem at first, and you will be guaranteed to end up with the
>> most efficient system you can build on that box :)
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 9:01 PM, David Wagle <david.wagle at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>       The issue with performance in Ubuntu is almost entirely due to
>>       the window manager and has really nothing to do with the other
>>       software versions. You can keep the  core "ubuntu" elements the
>>       same and  upgrade the rest of the software quite easily.
>> Alternately, you can try something more lightweight -- Mint 16 with
>> Xfce is basically Ubunutu with a a lightweight desktop. That's what I
>> run on my daughter's very ancient Macbook and it's actually quite
>> zippy
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 8:46 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>       You know I dabbled a bit with OpenSUSE. I just don't have
>>       the experience with windows managers. I even set-up a
>>       sli-taz machine. I really need nothing off the computer
>>       but I like the fact that the 10.04 is so well documented ,
>>       yes I know it's old I guess it gives me a noober a sense
>>       of comfort somehow that I do just not get with the latest
>>       releases. The 'dd' command works fine for me. I even
>>       recently learned that in order to install Debian Wheezy
>>       7.0 or whatnot I needed to partition the thumb drive for
>>       MS-Dos 16 not Fat32 to copy the image. Any reccomendations
>>       for a noob like me as far as a newer operating system on
>>       my laptop would be wonderful. Thank you for your time I
>>       wish I knew more.
>>
>>       Thank You.
>>
>>       > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:38:26 -0600
>>       > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
>>       > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>       > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become
>>       obselete for basic use?
>>       >
>>       > I don't know that they'd remove a printer driver...
>>       >
>>       > I've been using Ubuntu for many years, but I've never
>>       used Gnome, Unity or
>>       > KDE (I use Window Maker, as I have since 1996!). I'm
>>       lead to believe you
>>       > can get the "Classic" Gnome on the newer Ubuntus. It was
>>       announced very
>>       > recently that they're turning back from that stupid
>>       integrated menubar
>>       > thing, too.
>>       >
>>       > If you have the resources to make a bit-by-bit copy of
>>       your harddrive, you
>>       > can always try upgrading and then downgrade back if you
>>       don't like it. I'd
>>       > say try a live install on a USB thumbdrive, but that
>>       will for SURE be
>>       > slow.
>>       >
>>       > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
>>       >
>>       > > Yes, and thank you for asking. I am running this older
>>       version of Ubuntu on
>>       > > a Centrino Duo Laptop. I guess because I was so
>>       unimpressed with the 12.04
>>       > > performance on my old p4 tower. Also I have an older
>>       Lexmark x5070 printer
>>       > > that has a driver for the 10.04 Ubuntu. I don't like
>>       Gnome 3 maybe i'm just
>>       > > slow and I am not really used to KDE. Any suggestions
>>       would be wonderful.
>>       > >
>>       > > Thank You.
>>       > >
>>       > > > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:24:28 -0600
>>       > > > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
>>       > > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>       > > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become
>>       obselete for basic use?
>>       > > >
>>       > > > Might be some small things that won't work, but in
>>       general you should be
>>       > > > fine.
>>       > > >
>>       > > > Of course, as time goes on, those small things will
>>       get bigger and bigger.
>>       > > > Still, basic HTML with basic javascript should be
>>       fine for a long time. It
>>       > > > all depends on what kind of content you want.
>>       > > >
>>       > > > May I ask why you're running such an old version of
>>       Ubuntu?
>>       > > >
>>       > > > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
>>       > > >
>>       > > > > For a basic home/office computer user running an
>>       older FireFox version
>>       > > say
>>       > > > > '20.0' under Ubuntu 10.04 etc '2.6.-- kernel' will
>>       new web pages and
>>       > > webpage
>>       > > > > design soon require the need for a later version
>>       of FireFox or Opera to
>>       > > > > 'surf' the web? Just a curious question I am a
>>       noob.
>>       > > > >
>>       > > > > Thank You.
>>       > > > >
>>       > > > >
>>       > > > _______________________________________________
>>       > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>       > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>       > > >
>>       http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>       > >
>>       > >
>>       > _______________________________________________
>>       > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>       > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>       > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 22 11:58:22 2014
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 11:58:22 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
Message-ID: <CABWFOjv8QTQ+SH-6OnrRd6NweExe4tLPejCsi4WtstDMwYyn2w@mail.gmail.com>

 > I've always thought Arch was interesting, and a bit ago decided to give
it
>.a try. So I set up a VM, pointed it at the Arch installaiton medium and
> watched it not even be able to get past it's own setup.

Arch is great.  I did an install of it yesterday and after 3 hours
was relieved to have it working.  I know 3 hours is a lot, but I'd
had problems with Debian, Slackware and also Fedora so it
was kind of my next choice.  Debian seemed to mess up my
root password during the install.  I don't remember what the
problem was with Slackware.
Fedora installed fine, but I ran into a problem building clang 3.4
on it and it seemed like a difficult problem.  So I went with
Arch.  It was a little bit of a pain, but I did get it working and
it has clang 3.4 as it's default version.  Anyway, I also agree with
David Wagle's point about Arch being efficient.  It doesn't start
junk that other distros do.  I don't want to have to stop a bunch
of stuff whenever I reinstall.

I'm still a little fearful of Arch installs.  I also tried Archbang.
Don't remember what the problem with that was either.
Arch is a little bit tough, but also pays you back if you hang
in there.  That sounds like C++.  Maybe it's no coincidence
Arch is one of the few distros that understands the need for
clang 3.4.

I was installing from a thumb drive.  My guess from what
you wrote is you were doing a different kind of install.

-- 
Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust..
http://webEbenezer.net
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From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Sat Feb 22 17:37:59 2014
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 17:37:59 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjv8QTQ+SH-6OnrRd6NweExe4tLPejCsi4WtstDMwYyn2w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjv8QTQ+SH-6OnrRd6NweExe4tLPejCsi4WtstDMwYyn2w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACEdYO3_CccRY-7JXxD26VFw9mBo3dYCGtuju+CUVqDHA2Lg2w@mail.gmail.com>

Arch is amazing if you love control and rolling releases, it's worth
learning. I picked it up in 2003 and was close twice to switching but
I can't give it up as my primary distro. Once was when the devs
switched to systemd; it was a huge annoying change, but tolerable for
awhile now. The install got rough a couple years back (devs switched
to chroot / bootstrap method), however the reason for this is that
it's very minimal; albeit I'd argue not as simple (minimal does not
always = increased simplicity). After doing a couple of installs it
gets much smoother, IMO. And, you gain a fully customizable,
performance driven, rolling distro :-)

Also, Manjora Linux is an Arch derivative with a gui installer and
overall, an Ubuntu like simplicity to it. I'd recommend that if you
don't have the time for a standard Arch install, it uses the same
package management, pacman, therefore affording a rolling release
model so one always has the option for the most part up-to-date
browsers, plug-ins, etc.

Regarding the thumb drive vs. standard ISO vs. bootstrap installs,
they aren't all that different once you start installing the base to
your target.

--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com


On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 11:58 AM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I've always thought Arch was interesting, and a bit ago decided to give it
>>.a try. So I set up a VM, pointed it at the Arch installaiton medium and
>
>> watched it not even be able to get past it's own setup.
>
> Arch is great.  I did an install of it yesterday and after 3 hours
> was relieved to have it working.  I know 3 hours is a lot, but I'd
> had problems with Debian, Slackware and also Fedora so it
> was kind of my next choice.  Debian seemed to mess up my
> root password during the install.  I don't remember what the
> problem was with Slackware.
> Fedora installed fine, but I ran into a problem building clang 3.4
> on it and it seemed like a difficult problem.  So I went with
> Arch.  It was a little bit of a pain, but I did get it working and
> it has clang 3.4 as it's default version.  Anyway, I also agree with
> David Wagle's point about Arch being efficient.  It doesn't start
> junk that other distros do.  I don't want to have to stop a bunch
> of stuff whenever I reinstall.
>
> I'm still a little fearful of Arch installs.  I also tried Archbang.
> Don't remember what the problem with that was either.
> Arch is a little bit tough, but also pays you back if you hang
> in there.  That sounds like C++.  Maybe it's no coincidence
> Arch is one of the few distros that understands the need for
> clang 3.4.
>
> I was installing from a thumb drive.  My guess from what
> you wrote is you were doing a different kind of install.
>
> --
> Brian
> Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust..
> http://webEbenezer.net
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Sun Feb 23 14:05:46 2014
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 14:05:46 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231348080.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:

> On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
>
>> For a basic home/office computer user running an older FireFox version 
>> say '20.0' under Ubuntu 10.04 etc '2.6.-- kernel' will new web pages 
>> and webpage design soon require the need for a later version of FireFox 
>> or Opera to 'surf' the web? Just a curious question I am a noob.
>
> Might be some small things that won't work, but in general you should be 
> fine.
>
> Of course, as time goes on, those small things will get bigger and 
> bigger. Still, basic HTML with basic javascript should be fine for a 
> long time. It all depends on what kind of content you want.
>
> May I ask why you're running such an old version of Ubuntu?


I wasn't the OP (that was paul g), but I'm using 10.10 on my home Linux 
box.  One reason for that is I tried to upgrade and it did not work.  I 
think sometime in the next few months I'll get around to just redoing 
everything to and installing fresh.  Apparently, if you don't upgrade soon 
enough, you can't upgrade at all.  I'm not sure why.  Another Ubuntu thing 
is that you can only upgrade to the next version -- you can't skip ahead. 
I don't know why that is, but it's annoying.  So now I'm trying to keep 
up-to-date on the machines that are current enough to allow upgrades.  I 
don't like to upgrade immediately when a new version comes out, but maybe 
a month later, in case they had some bugs to work out.

I'm using Firefox 11.0 on that Ubuntu 10.10 box and it seems to be working 
fine.  I don't know what I'll be getting for upgrading Firefox -- that 
will be interesting to see.

I have an even older box that I use more -- it's running Ubuntu 9.10.  I 
would love to get that upgraded, too.  The main problem there is that I'm 
constantly using it.  I bought another machine to replace it, but I 
couldn't get everything to work on that new machine.  I should try again. 
We have to admit that there are all kinds of hassles with making these 
machines do what we want.  I'm getting a lot out of it, though.  A lot. 
There is nothing in the conventional Mac/Windows world to compare.

On that 9.10 machine I'm mostly using Chromium-Browser.  It gives me this 
version information:

13.0.768.0 (Developer Build 85577 Linux) Ubuntu 9.10

I'm sure that's a few years out of date.  It definitely is starting to 
cause some problems.  The biggest problem is that I can't seem to upgrade 
the flash and some web sites won't work because of that.  Some sites will 
complain about my old browser and tell me to upgrade (which I cannot do, 
it seems), but those sites still work OK, as far as I can tell.

Mike

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Sun Feb 23 15:45:56 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 15:45:56 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231348080.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231348080.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231544150.7399@cockerel.yaron.org>

Just want to point out that you CAN skip versions with Ubuntu. Probably 
not unlimited version skips, but I just went from 12.04 to 13.10 on a 
couple of machines in one go.

Now if you're going to do a reinstall, well, this is why we keep /home and 
/usr/local etc on separate partitions (: You can reinstall the OS and keep 
all your data and configuration.

On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, Mike Miller wrote:

> On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
>> 
>>> For a basic home/office computer user running an older FireFox version say 
>>> '20.0' under Ubuntu 10.04 etc '2.6.-- kernel' will new web pages and 
>>> webpage design soon require the need for a later version of FireFox or 
>>> Opera to 'surf' the web? Just a curious question I am a noob.
>> 
>> Might be some small things that won't work, but in general you should be 
>> fine.
>> 
>> Of course, as time goes on, those small things will get bigger and bigger. 
>> Still, basic HTML with basic javascript should be fine for a long time. It 
>> all depends on what kind of content you want.
>> 
>> May I ask why you're running such an old version of Ubuntu?
>
>
> I wasn't the OP (that was paul g), but I'm using 10.10 on my home Linux box. 
> One reason for that is I tried to upgrade and it did not work.  I think 
> sometime in the next few months I'll get around to just redoing everything to 
> and installing fresh.  Apparently, if you don't upgrade soon enough, you 
> can't upgrade at all.  I'm not sure why.  Another Ubuntu thing is that you 
> can only upgrade to the next version -- you can't skip ahead. I don't know 
> why that is, but it's annoying.  So now I'm trying to keep up-to-date on the 
> machines that are current enough to allow upgrades.  I don't like to upgrade 
> immediately when a new version comes out, but maybe a month later, in case 
> they had some bugs to work out.
>
> I'm using Firefox 11.0 on that Ubuntu 10.10 box and it seems to be working 
> fine.  I don't know what I'll be getting for upgrading Firefox -- that will 
> be interesting to see.
>
> I have an even older box that I use more -- it's running Ubuntu 9.10.  I 
> would love to get that upgraded, too.  The main problem there is that I'm 
> constantly using it.  I bought another machine to replace it, but I couldn't 
> get everything to work on that new machine.  I should try again. We have to 
> admit that there are all kinds of hassles with making these machines do what 
> we want.  I'm getting a lot out of it, though.  A lot. There is nothing in 
> the conventional Mac/Windows world to compare.
>
> On that 9.10 machine I'm mostly using Chromium-Browser.  It gives me this 
> version information:
>
> 13.0.768.0 (Developer Build 85577 Linux) Ubuntu 9.10
>
> I'm sure that's a few years out of date.  It definitely is starting to cause 
> some problems.  The biggest problem is that I can't seem to upgrade the flash 
> and some web sites won't work because of that.  Some sites will complain 
> about my old browser and tell me to upgrade (which I cannot do, it seems), 
> but those sites still work OK, as far as I can tell.
>
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From pj.world at hotmail.com  Sun Feb 23 17:48:41 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 17:48:41 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231544150.7399@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231348080.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231544150.7399@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <BAY175-W1326AB759D3198F3B433A899870@phx.gbl>

I just opened up Gparted on my Laptop here running Ubuntu 10.04.

It appears there are 3 partitions listed.

/sda1 ext4
/sda2 extended
 /sda5 linux-swap

I know this is a basic question but how can I see which partition my /home and /usr/local etc directories are filed under? I noticed in my case that my /usr/local/etc directory is basically empty but not the /usr directory.

Thank You.

> Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 15:45:56 -0600
> From: tclug at freakzilla.com
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
> 
> Just want to point out that you CAN skip versions with Ubuntu. Probably 
> not unlimited version skips, but I just went from 12.04 to 13.10 on a 
> couple of machines in one go.
> 
> Now if you're going to do a reinstall, well, this is why we keep /home and 
> /usr/local etc on separate partitions (: You can reinstall the OS and keep 
> all your data and configuration.
> 
> On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, Mike Miller wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
> >> 
> >>> For a basic home/office computer user running an older FireFox version say 
> >>> '20.0' under Ubuntu 10.04 etc '2.6.-- kernel' will new web pages and 
> >>> webpage design soon require the need for a later version of FireFox or 
> >>> Opera to 'surf' the web? Just a curious question I am a noob.
> >> 
> >> Might be some small things that won't work, but in general you should be 
> >> fine.
> >> 
> >> Of course, as time goes on, those small things will get bigger and bigger. 
> >> Still, basic HTML with basic javascript should be fine for a long time. It 
> >> all depends on what kind of content you want.
> >> 
> >> May I ask why you're running such an old version of Ubuntu?
> >
> >
> > I wasn't the OP (that was paul g), but I'm using 10.10 on my home Linux box. 
> > One reason for that is I tried to upgrade and it did not work.  I think 
> > sometime in the next few months I'll get around to just redoing everything to 
> > and installing fresh.  Apparently, if you don't upgrade soon enough, you 
> > can't upgrade at all.  I'm not sure why.  Another Ubuntu thing is that you 
> > can only upgrade to the next version -- you can't skip ahead. I don't know 
> > why that is, but it's annoying.  So now I'm trying to keep up-to-date on the 
> > machines that are current enough to allow upgrades.  I don't like to upgrade 
> > immediately when a new version comes out, but maybe a month later, in case 
> > they had some bugs to work out.
> >
> > I'm using Firefox 11.0 on that Ubuntu 10.10 box and it seems to be working 
> > fine.  I don't know what I'll be getting for upgrading Firefox -- that will 
> > be interesting to see.
> >
> > I have an even older box that I use more -- it's running Ubuntu 9.10.  I 
> > would love to get that upgraded, too.  The main problem there is that I'm 
> > constantly using it.  I bought another machine to replace it, but I couldn't 
> > get everything to work on that new machine.  I should try again. We have to 
> > admit that there are all kinds of hassles with making these machines do what 
> > we want.  I'm getting a lot out of it, though.  A lot. There is nothing in 
> > the conventional Mac/Windows world to compare.
> >
> > On that 9.10 machine I'm mostly using Chromium-Browser.  It gives me this 
> > version information:
> >
> > 13.0.768.0 (Developer Build 85577 Linux) Ubuntu 9.10
> >
> > I'm sure that's a few years out of date.  It definitely is starting to cause 
> > some problems.  The biggest problem is that I can't seem to upgrade the flash 
> > and some web sites won't work because of that.  Some sites will complain 
> > about my old browser and tell me to upgrade (which I cannot do, it seems), 
> > but those sites still work OK, as far as I can tell.
> >
> > Mike
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
 		 	   		  
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Sun Feb 23 17:56:19 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 17:56:19 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W1326AB759D3198F3B433A899870@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231348080.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231544150.7399@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W1326AB759D3198F3B433A899870@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231755510.7606@cockerel.yaron.org>

The 'df' command will tell you where everything is mounted. It looks very 
much to me like you have everything on the same partition (except swap).

On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:

> I just opened up Gparted on my Laptop here running Ubuntu 10.04.
> 
> It appears there are 3 partitions listed.
> 
> /sda1 ext4
> /sda2 extended
> ?/sda5 linux-swap
> 
> I know this is a basic question but how can I see which partition my /home
> and /usr/local etc directories are filed under? I noticed in my case that my
> /usr/local/etc directory is basically empty but not the /usr directory.
> 
> Thank You.
> 
> > Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 15:45:56 -0600
> > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
> > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
> >
> > Just want to point out that you CAN skip versions with Ubuntu. Probably
> > not unlimited version skips, but I just went from 12.04 to 13.10 on a
> > couple of machines in one go.
> >
> > Now if you're going to do a reinstall, well, this is why we keep /home and
> > /usr/local etc on separate partitions (: You can reinstall the OS and keep
> > all your data and configuration.
> >
> > On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, Mike Miller wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> For a basic home/office computer user running an older FireFox version
> say
> > >>> '20.0' under Ubuntu 10.04 etc '2.6.-- kernel' will new web pages and
> > >>> webpage design soon require the need for a later version of FireFox or
> > >>> Opera to 'surf' the web? Just a curious question I am a noob.
> > >>
> > >> Might be some small things that won't work, but in general you should
> be
> > >> fine.
> > >>
> > >> Of course, as time goes on, those small things will get bigger and
> bigger.
> > >> Still, basic HTML with basic javascript should be fine for a long time.
> It
> > >> all depends on what kind of content you want.
> > >>
> > >> May I ask why you're running such an old version of Ubuntu?
> > >
> > >
> > > I wasn't the OP (that was paul g), but I'm using 10.10 on my home Linux
> box.
> > > One reason for that is I tried to upgrade and it did not work. I think
> > > sometime in the next few months I'll get around to just redoing
> everything to
> > > and installing fresh. Apparently, if you don't upgrade soon enough, you
> > > can't upgrade at all. I'm not sure why. Another Ubuntu thing is that you
> > > can only upgrade to the next version -- you can't skip ahead. I don't
> know
> > > why that is, but it's annoying. So now I'm trying to keep up-to-date on
> the
> > > machines that are current enough to allow upgrades. I don't like to
> upgrade
> > > immediately when a new version comes out, but maybe a month later, in
> case
> > > they had some bugs to work out.
> > >
> > > I'm using Firefox 11.0 on that Ubuntu 10.10 box and it seems to be
> working
> > > fine. I don't know what I'll be getting for upgrading Firefox -- that
> will
> > > be interesting to see.
> > >
> > > I have an even older box that I use more -- it's running Ubuntu 9.10. I
> > > would love to get that upgraded, too. The main problem there is that I'm
> > > constantly using it. I bought another machine to replace it, but I
> couldn't
> > > get everything to work on that new machine. I should try again. We have
> to
> > > admit that there are all kinds of hassles with making these machines do
> what
> > > we want. I'm getting a lot out of it, though. A lot. There is nothing in
> > > the conventional Mac/Windows world to compare.
> > >
> > > On that 9.10 machine I'm mostly using Chromium-Browser. It gives me this
> > > version information:
> > >
> > > 13.0.768.0 (Developer Build 85577 Linux) Ubuntu 9.10
> > >
> > > I'm sure that's a few years out of date. It definitely is starting to
> cause
> > > some problems. The biggest problem is that I can't seem to upgrade the
> flash
> > > and some web sites won't work because of that. Some sites will complain
> > > about my old browser and tell me to upgrade (which I cannot do, it
> seems),
> > > but those sites still work OK, as far as I can tell.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
>

From pj.world at hotmail.com  Sun Feb 23 18:11:51 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 18:11:51 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231755510.7606@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>, ,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>, ,
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231348080.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>, ,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231544150.7399@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <BAY175-W1326AB759D3198F3B433A899870@phx.gbl>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231755510.7606@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <BAY175-W10A9C69BCC6FECAF960C9599860@phx.gbl>

paul at paul-laptop:~$ df
Filesystem           1K-blocks      Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/sda1             55292308  29501632  22981948  57% /
none                   1022464       300   1022164   1% /dev
none                   1026704       728   1025976   1% /dev/shm
none                   1026704        88   1026616   1% /var/run
none                   1026704         0   1026704   0% /var/lock
none                   1026704         0   1026704   0% /lib/init/rw

How typical is it to create a separate Root, Home, Usr, Var,Tmp Partitions. Like you said I may want to consider separate /usr, /home partitions. 

Thanks

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 17:56:19 -0600
From: tclug at freakzilla.com
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?

The 'df' command will tell you where everything is mounted. It looks very 
much to me like you have everything on the same partition (except swap).
 
On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
 
> I just opened up Gparted on my Laptop here running Ubuntu 10.04.
> 
> It appears there are 3 partitions listed.
> 
> /sda1 ext4
> /sda2 extended
>  /sda5 linux-swap
> 
> I know this is a basic question but how can I see which partition my /home
> and /usr/local etc directories are filed under? I noticed in my case that my
> /usr/local/etc directory is basically empty but not the /usr directory.
> 
> Thank You.
> 
> > Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 15:45:56 -0600
> > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
> > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
> >
> > Just want to point out that you CAN skip versions with Ubuntu. Probably
> > not unlimited version skips, but I just went from 12.04 to 13.10 on a
> > couple of machines in one go.
> >
> > Now if you're going to do a reinstall, well, this is why we keep /home and
> > /usr/local etc on separate partitions (: You can reinstall the OS and keep
> > all your data and configuration.
> >
> > On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, Mike Miller wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> For a basic home/office computer user running an older FireFox version
> say
> > >>> '20.0' under Ubuntu 10.04 etc '2.6.-- kernel' will new web pages and
> > >>> webpage design soon require the need for a later version of FireFox or
> > >>> Opera to 'surf' the web? Just a curious question I am a noob.
> > >>
> > >> Might be some small things that won't work, but in general you should
> be
> > >> fine.
> > >>
> > >> Of course, as time goes on, those small things will get bigger and
> bigger.
> > >> Still, basic HTML with basic javascript should be fine for a long time.
> It
> > >> all depends on what kind of content you want.
> > >>
> > >> May I ask why you're running such an old version of Ubuntu?
> > >
> > >
> > > I wasn't the OP (that was paul g), but I'm using 10.10 on my home Linux
> box.
> > > One reason for that is I tried to upgrade and it did not work. I think
> > > sometime in the next few months I'll get around to just redoing
> everything to
> > > and installing fresh. Apparently, if you don't upgrade soon enough, you
> > > can't upgrade at all. I'm not sure why. Another Ubuntu thing is that you
> > > can only upgrade to the next version -- you can't skip ahead. I don't
> know
> > > why that is, but it's annoying. So now I'm trying to keep up-to-date on
> the
> > > machines that are current enough to allow upgrades. I don't like to
> upgrade
> > > immediately when a new version comes out, but maybe a month later, in
> case
> > > they had some bugs to work out.
> > >
> > > I'm using Firefox 11.0 on that Ubuntu 10.10 box and it seems to be
> working
> > > fine. I don't know what I'll be getting for upgrading Firefox -- that
> will
> > > be interesting to see.
> > >
> > > I have an even older box that I use more -- it's running Ubuntu 9.10. I
> > > would love to get that upgraded, too. The main problem there is that I'm
> > > constantly using it. I bought another machine to replace it, but I
> couldn't
> > > get everything to work on that new machine. I should try again. We have
> to
> > > admit that there are all kinds of hassles with making these machines do
> what
> > > we want. I'm getting a lot out of it, though. A lot. There is nothing in
> > > the conventional Mac/Windows world to compare.
> > >
> > > On that 9.10 machine I'm mostly using Chromium-Browser. It gives me this
> > > version information:
> > >
> > > 13.0.768.0 (Developer Build 85577 Linux) Ubuntu 9.10
> > >
> > > I'm sure that's a few years out of date. It definitely is starting to
> cause
> > > some problems. The biggest problem is that I can't seem to upgrade the
> flash
> > > and some web sites won't work because of that. Some sites will complain
> > > about my old browser and tell me to upgrade (which I cannot do, it
> seems),
> > > but those sites still work OK, as far as I can tell.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
>

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 		 	   		  
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Sun Feb 23 18:17:05 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 18:17:05 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W10A9C69BCC6FECAF960C9599860@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>, ,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>, ,
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231348080.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>, ,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231544150.7399@cockerel.yaron.org>, 
 <BAY175-W1326AB759D3198F3B433A899870@phx.gbl>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231755510.7606@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W10A9C69BCC6FECAF960C9599860@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231814130.7606@cockerel.yaron.org>

It's sadly not really all that typical anymore for home installations. 
It's good practice but the installers for popular Linux distributions 
(i.e., ubuntu) just put everything on /.

I personally have separate partitions for /, /usr, /var, /tmp, /home, 
and /usr/local, as well as separate partitions just for VM images. I used 
to keep /usr/local/src separate when I used to do a lot of builds (that 
goes in ~/src now). There are some things I have completely separate disks 
for (like all my photos).

On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:

> paul at paul-laptop:~$ df
> Filesystem?????????? 1K-blocks????? Used Available Use% Mounted on
> /dev/sda1???????????? 55292308? 29501632? 22981948? 57% /
> none?????????????????? 1022464?????? 300?? 1022164?? 1% /dev
> none?????????????????? 1026704?????? 728?? 1025976?? 1% /dev/shm
> none?????????????????? 1026704??????? 88?? 1026616?? 1% /var/run
> none?????????????????? 1026704???????? 0?? 1026704?? 0% /var/lock
> none?????????????????? 1026704???????? 0?? 1026704?? 0% /lib/init/rw
> 
> How typical is it to create a separate Root, Home, Usr, Var,Tmp Partitions.
> Like you said I may want to consider separate /usr, /home partitions.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 17:56:19 -0600
> From: tclug at freakzilla.com
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
> 
> The 'df' command will tell you where everything is mounted. It looks very 
> much to me like you have everything on the same partition (except swap).
> 
> On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
> 
> > I just opened up Gparted on my Laptop here running Ubuntu 10.04.
> > 
> > It appears there are 3 partitions listed.
> > 
> > /sda1 ext4
> > /sda2 extended
> > ?/sda5 linux-swap
> > 
> > I know this is a basic question but how can I see which partition my /home
> > and /usr/local etc directories are filed under? I noticed in my case that 
> my
> > /usr/local/etc directory is basically empty but not the /usr directory.
> > 
> > Thank You.
> > 
> > > Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 15:45:56 -0600
> > > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
> > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic us
> e?
> > >
> > > Just want to point out that you CAN skip versions with Ubuntu. Probably
> > > not unlimited version skips, but I just went from 12.04 to 13.10 on a
> > > couple of machines in one go.
> > >
> > > Now if you're going to do a reinstall, well, this is why we keep /home a
> nd
> > > /usr/local etc on separate partitions (: You can reinstall the OS and ke
> ep
> > > all your data and configuration.
> > >
> > > On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, Mike Miller wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> For a basic home/office computer user running an older FireFox versi
> on
> > say
> > > >>> '20.0' under Ubuntu 10.04 etc '2.6.-- kernel' will new web pages and
> > > >>> webpage design soon require the need for a later version of FireFox 
> or
> > > >>> Opera to 'surf' the web? Just a curious question I am a noob.
> > > >>
> > > >> Might be some small things that won't work, but in general you should
> > be
> > > >> fine.
> > > >>
> > > >> Of course, as time goes on, those small things will get bigger and
> > bigger.
> > > >> Still, basic HTML with basic javascript should be fine for a long tim
> e.
> > It
> > > >> all depends on what kind of content you want.
> > > >>
> > > >> May I ask why you're running such an old version of Ubuntu?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I wasn't the OP (that was paul g), but I'm using 10.10 on my home Linu
> x
> > box.
> > > > One reason for that is I tried to upgrade and it did not work. I think
> > > > sometime in the next few months I'll get around to just redoing
> > everything to
> > > > and installing fresh. Apparently, if you don't upgrade soon enough, yo
> u
> > > > can't upgrade at all. I'm not sure why. Another Ubuntu thing is that y
> ou
> > > > can only upgrade to the next version -- you can't skip ahead. I don't
> > know
> > > > why that is, but it's annoying. So now I'm trying to keep up-to-date o
> n
> > the
> > > > machines that are current enough to allow upgrades. I don't like to
> > upgrade
> > > > immediately when a new version comes out, but maybe a month later, in
> > case
> > > > they had some bugs to work out.
> > > >
> > > > I'm using Firefox 11.0 on that Ubuntu 10.10 box and it seems to be
> > working
> > > > fine. I don't know what I'll be getting for upgrading Firefox -- that
> > will
> > > > be interesting to see.
> > > >
> > > > I have an even older box that I use more -- it's running Ubuntu 9.10. 
> I
> > > > would love to get that upgraded, too. The main problem there is that I
> 'm
> > > > constantly using it. I bought another machine to replace it, but I
> > couldn't
> > > > get everything to work on that new machine. I should try again. We hav
> e
> > to
> > > > admit that there are all kinds of hassles with making these machines d
> o
> > what
> > > > we want. I'm getting a lot out of it, though. A lot. There is nothing 
> in
> > > > the conventional Mac/Windows world to compare.
> > > >
> > > > On that 9.10 machine I'm mostly using Chromium-Browser. It gives me th
> is
> > > > version information:
> > > >
> > > > 13.0.768.0 (Developer Build 85577 Linux) Ubuntu 9.10
> > > >
> > > > I'm sure that's a few years out of date. It definitely is starting to
> > cause
> > > > some problems. The biggest problem is that I can't seem to upgrade the
> > flash
> > > > and some web sites won't work because of that. Some sites will complai
> n
> > > > about my old browser and tell me to upgrade (which I cannot do, it
> > seems),
> > > > but those sites still work OK, as far as I can tell.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > 
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List -
> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
>

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Sun Feb 23 18:36:12 2014
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 18:36:12 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231544150.7399@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231348080.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231544150.7399@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231737360.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:

> Just want to point out that you CAN skip versions with Ubuntu. Probably 
> not unlimited version skips, but I just went from 12.04 to 13.10 on a 
> couple of machines in one go.

That's good news, but how do you do it?  The update-manager doesn't offer 
any options of which version to upgrade to, as far as I can tell.  I 
looked at "man do-release-upgrade" and saw the "-d" option:

     -d, --devel-release
           Check if upgrading to the latest devel release is possible

I ran that on three machines.  On one is running Ubuntu 12.04.2 LTS and it 
reported downloading trusty.tar.gz, which would be Ubuntu 14.04.  That 
makes sense because 14.04 would be the next avaiable LTS, but I think it's 
still in alpha.

Another was running Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick), but it failed while trying to 
download natty.tar.gz, which would be Ubuntu 11.04:

Checking for a new ubuntu release
Err Upgrade tool signature
   404  Not Found [IP: 91.189.91.14 80]
Err Upgrade tool
   404  Not Found [IP: 91.189.91.14 80]
Fetched 0B in 0s (0B/s)
WARNING:root:file 'natty.tar.gz.gpg' missing
Failed to fetch
Fetching the upgrade failed. There may be a network problem.

There is no network problem, at least not on my end.  Maybe there's 
someplace that I can get the .gpg file, and then maybe it will work.


A third machine was running Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic) and it downloaded 
lucid.tar.gz, which would be Ubuntu 10.04

So it seems like the -d option is not causing Ubuntu to find "the latest 
devel release" but only the next devel release.



> Now if you're going to do a reinstall, well, this is why we keep /home 
> and /usr/local etc on separate partitions (: You can reinstall the OS 
> and keep all your data and configuration.

That sounds like a reasonable idea, but I haven't been doing that.  It 
isn't too big of a deal to copy from backup, though.

Mike

From droidjd at gmail.com  Sun Feb 23 18:46:44 2014
From: droidjd at gmail.com (Andrew Dahl)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 18:46:44 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W10A9C69BCC6FECAF960C9599860@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231348080.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231544150.7399@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W1326AB759D3198F3B433A899870@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231755510.7606@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W10A9C69BCC6FECAF960C9599860@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAFjzMdxKHwto1ZD1diptKAHyQm_BjPxCX5wzUffJjWVAQE8EEg@mail.gmail.com>

I typically always do a / and /home partition.  That way, if something goes
wrong with my system, I can blow away / without affecting my /home data.

It's good practice to also create a separate /var partition, as if
something goes wrong and logs start filling up like crazy, they only fill
up /var and not /

I never create separate /usr, /usr/local partitions, but I suppose you
would for the same reason as my rationale for /home, but I'm not sure if
there are additional reasons for doing so.

Oh, and then on my home server, I've got a RAID device mounted at /storage
(creative, right?).

-Andrew


On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 6:11 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:

> paul at paul-laptop:~$ df
> Filesystem           1K-blocks      Used Available Use% Mounted on
> /dev/sda1             55292308  29501632  22981948  57% /
> none                   1022464       300   1022164   1% /dev
> none                   1026704       728   1025976   1% /dev/shm
> none                   1026704        88   1026616   1% /var/run
> none                   1026704         0   1026704   0% /var/lock
> none                   1026704         0   1026704   0% /lib/init/rw
>
> How typical is it to create a separate Root, Home, Usr, Var,Tmp
> Partitions. Like you said I may want to consider separate /usr, /home
> partitions.
>
> Thanks
>
> Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 17:56:19 -0600
>
> From: tclug at freakzilla.com
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
>
> The 'df' command will tell you where everything is mounted. It looks very
> much to me like you have everything on the same partition (except swap).
>
> On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
>
> > I just opened up Gparted on my Laptop here running Ubuntu 10.04.
>
> >
> > It appears there are 3 partitions listed.
> >
> > /sda1 ext4
> > /sda2 extended
> >  /sda5 linux-swap
> >
> > I know this is a basic question but how can I see which partition my /home
>
> > and /usr/local etc directories are filed under? I noticed in my case that my
> > /usr/local/etc directory is basically empty but not the /usr directory.
> >
> > Thank You.
> >
> > > Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 15:45:56 -0600
>
> > > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
> > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
>
> > >
> > > Just want to point out that you CAN skip versions with Ubuntu. Probably
> > > not unlimited version skips, but I just went from 12.04 to 13.10 on a
> > > couple of machines in one go.
>
> > >
> > > Now if you're going to do a reinstall, well, this is why we keep /home and
> > > /usr/local etc on separate partitions (: You can reinstall the OS and keep
> > > all your data and configuration.
>
> > >
> > > On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, Mike Miller wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
> > > >
>
> > > >> On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> For a basic home/office computer user running an older FireFox version
> > say
> > > >>> '20.0' under Ubuntu 10.04 etc '2.6.-- kernel' will new web pages and
>
> > > >>> webpage design soon require the need for a later version of FireFox or
> > > >>> Opera to 'surf' the web? Just a curious question I am a noob.
> > > >>
> > > >> Might be some small things that won't work, but in general you should
>
> > be
> > > >> fine.
> > > >>
> > > >> Of course, as time goes on, those small things will get bigger and
> > bigger.
> > > >> Still, basic HTML with basic javascript should be fine for a long time.
>
> > It
> > > >> all depends on what kind of content you want.
> > > >>
> > > >> May I ask why you're running such an old version of Ubuntu?
> > > >
> > > >
>
> > > > I wasn't the OP (that was paul g), but I'm using 10.10 on my home Linux
> > box.
> > > > One reason for that is I tried to upgrade and it did not work. I think
> > > > sometime in the next few months I'll get around to just redoing
>
> > everything to
> > > > and installing fresh. Apparently, if you don't upgrade soon enough, you
> > > > can't upgrade at all. I'm not sure why. Another Ubuntu thing is that you
> > > > can only upgrade to the next version -- you can't skip ahead. I don't
>
> > know
> > > > why that is, but it's annoying. So now I'm trying to keep up-to-date on
> > the
> > > > machines that are current enough to allow upgrades. I don't like to
> > upgrade
>
> > > > immediately when a new version comes out, but maybe a month later, in
> > case
> > > > they had some bugs to work out.
> > > >
> > > > I'm using Firefox 11.0 on that Ubuntu 10.10 box and it seems to be
>
> > working
> > > > fine. I don't know what I'll be getting for upgrading Firefox -- that
> > will
> > > > be interesting to see.
> > > >
> > > > I have an even older box that I use more -- it's running Ubuntu 9.10. I
>
> > > > would love to get that upgraded, too. The main problem there is that I'm
> > > > constantly using it. I bought another machine to replace it, but I
> > couldn't
> > > > get everything to work on that new machine. I should try again. We have
>
> > to
> > > > admit that there are all kinds of hassles with making these machines do
> > what
> > > > we want. I'm getting a lot out of it, though. A lot. There is nothing in
> > > > the conventional Mac/Windows world to compare.
>
> > > >
> > > > On that 9.10 machine I'm mostly using Chromium-Browser. It gives me this
> > > > version information:
> > > >
> > > > 13.0.768.0 (Developer Build 85577 Linux) Ubuntu 9.10
>
> > > >
> > > > I'm sure that's a few years out of date. It definitely is starting to
> > cause
> > > > some problems. The biggest problem is that I can't seem to upgrade the
>
> > flash
> > > > and some web sites won't work because of that. Some sites will complain
> > > > about my old browser and tell me to upgrade (which I cannot do, it
> > seems),
> > > > but those sites still work OK, as far as I can tell.
>
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>
> > > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
>
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List -
> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From pj.world at hotmail.com  Sun Feb 23 19:22:31 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 19:22:31 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <CAFjzMdxKHwto1ZD1diptKAHyQm_BjPxCX5wzUffJjWVAQE8EEg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231348080.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231544150.7399@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <BAY175-W1326AB759D3198F3B433A899870@phx.gbl>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231755510.7606@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <BAY175-W10A9C69BCC6FECAF960C9599860@phx.gbl>,
 <CAFjzMdxKHwto1ZD1diptKAHyQm_BjPxCX5wzUffJjWVAQE8EEg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY175-W144109F1E9D891280A763399860@phx.gbl>

When you refer to '/' is that the same as /root partition? 

Thanks

From: droidjd at gmail.com
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 18:46:44 -0600
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?

I typically always do a / and /home partition.  That way, if something goes wrong with my system, I can blow away / without affecting my /home data.
It's good practice to also create a separate /var partition, as if something goes wrong and logs start filling up like crazy, they only fill up /var and not / 


I never create separate /usr, /usr/local partitions, but I suppose you would for the same reason as my rationale for /home, but I'm not sure if there are additional reasons for doing so.


Oh, and then on my home server, I've got a RAID device mounted at /storage (creative, right?).
-Andrew

On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 6:11 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:





paul at paul-laptop:~$ df
Filesystem           1K-blocks      Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/sda1             55292308  29501632  22981948  57% /
none                   1022464       300   1022164   1% /dev


none                   1026704       728   1025976   1% /dev/shm
none                   1026704        88   1026616   1% /var/run
none                   1026704         0   1026704   0% /var/lock
none                   1026704         0   1026704   0% /lib/init/rw



How typical is it to create a separate Root, Home, Usr, Var,Tmp Partitions. Like you said I may want to consider separate /usr, /home partitions. 

Thanks

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 17:56:19 -0600


From: tclug at freakzilla.com
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?



The 'df' command will tell you where everything is mounted. It looks very 
much to me like you have everything on the same partition (except swap).
 
On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
 
> I just opened up Gparted on my Laptop here running Ubuntu 10.04.


> 
> It appears there are 3 partitions listed.
> 
> /sda1 ext4
> /sda2 extended
>  /sda5 linux-swap
> 
> I know this is a basic question but how can I see which partition my /home


> and /usr/local etc directories are filed under? I noticed in my case that my
> /usr/local/etc directory is basically empty but not the /usr directory.
> 
> Thank You.
> 
> > Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 15:45:56 -0600


> > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
> > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?


> >
> > Just want to point out that you CAN skip versions with Ubuntu. Probably
> > not unlimited version skips, but I just went from 12.04 to 13.10 on a
> > couple of machines in one go.


> >
> > Now if you're going to do a reinstall, well, this is why we keep /home and
> > /usr/local etc on separate partitions (: You can reinstall the OS and keep
> > all your data and configuration.


> >
> > On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, Mike Miller wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
> > >


> > >> On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> For a basic home/office computer user running an older FireFox version
> say
> > >>> '20.0' under Ubuntu 10.04 etc '2.6.-- kernel' will new web pages and


> > >>> webpage design soon require the need for a later version of FireFox or
> > >>> Opera to 'surf' the web? Just a curious question I am a noob.
> > >>
> > >> Might be some small things that won't work, but in general you should


> be
> > >> fine.
> > >>
> > >> Of course, as time goes on, those small things will get bigger and
> bigger.
> > >> Still, basic HTML with basic javascript should be fine for a long time.


> It
> > >> all depends on what kind of content you want.
> > >>
> > >> May I ask why you're running such an old version of Ubuntu?
> > >
> > >


> > > I wasn't the OP (that was paul g), but I'm using 10.10 on my home Linux
> box.
> > > One reason for that is I tried to upgrade and it did not work. I think
> > > sometime in the next few months I'll get around to just redoing


> everything to
> > > and installing fresh. Apparently, if you don't upgrade soon enough, you
> > > can't upgrade at all. I'm not sure why. Another Ubuntu thing is that you
> > > can only upgrade to the next version -- you can't skip ahead. I don't


> know
> > > why that is, but it's annoying. So now I'm trying to keep up-to-date on
> the
> > > machines that are current enough to allow upgrades. I don't like to
> upgrade


> > > immediately when a new version comes out, but maybe a month later, in
> case
> > > they had some bugs to work out.
> > >
> > > I'm using Firefox 11.0 on that Ubuntu 10.10 box and it seems to be


> working
> > > fine. I don't know what I'll be getting for upgrading Firefox -- that
> will
> > > be interesting to see.
> > >
> > > I have an even older box that I use more -- it's running Ubuntu 9.10. I


> > > would love to get that upgraded, too. The main problem there is that I'm
> > > constantly using it. I bought another machine to replace it, but I
> couldn't
> > > get everything to work on that new machine. I should try again. We have


> to
> > > admit that there are all kinds of hassles with making these machines do
> what
> > > we want. I'm getting a lot out of it, though. A lot. There is nothing in
> > > the conventional Mac/Windows world to compare.


> > >
> > > On that 9.10 machine I'm mostly using Chromium-Browser. It gives me this
> > > version information:
> > >
> > > 13.0.768.0 (Developer Build 85577 Linux) Ubuntu 9.10


> > >
> > > I'm sure that's a few years out of date. It definitely is starting to
> cause
> > > some problems. The biggest problem is that I can't seem to upgrade the


> flash
> > > and some web sites won't work because of that. Some sites will complain
> > > about my old browser and tell me to upgrade (which I cannot do, it
> seems),
> > > but those sites still work OK, as far as I can tell.


> > >
> > > Mike
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org


> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > >
> > _______________________________________________


> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


> 
>

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 		 	   		  

_______________________________________________

TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

tclug-list at mn-linux.org

http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list





_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 		 	   		  
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Sun Feb 23 19:58:16 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 19:58:16 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W144109F1E9D891280A763399860@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231348080.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231544150.7399@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <BAY175-W1326AB759D3198F3B433A899870@phx.gbl>, 
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231755510.7606@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <BAY175-W10A9C69BCC6FECAF960C9599860@phx.gbl>,
 <CAFjzMdxKHwto1ZD1diptKAHyQm_BjPxCX5wzUffJjWVAQE8EEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <BAY175-W144109F1E9D891280A763399860@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231956410.7767@cockerel.yaron.org>

/ is the root filesystem or the root directory. All other direcotries 
and/or filesystems live under /.

/root is, in many cases, the root user's home directory. There is really 
no reason to put this on it's own partition, or really have anything in 
it. You should never, ever be logged in directly as root unless some 
really bad catastrophe happened and that's the only way to fix stuff.


On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:

> When you refer to '/' is that the same as /root partition?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> From: droidjd at gmail.com
> Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 18:46:44 -0600
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
> 
> I typically always do a / and /home partition. ?That way, if something goes
> wrong with my system, I can blow away / without affecting my /home data.
> It's good practice to also create a separate /var partition, as if something
> goes wrong and logs start filling up like crazy, they only fill up /var and
> not /?
> 
> I never create separate /usr, /usr/local partitions, but I suppose you would
> for the same reason as my rationale for /home, but I'm not sure if there are
> additional reasons for doing so.
> 
> Oh, and then on my home server, I've got a RAID device mounted at /storage
> (creative, right?).
> 
> -Andrew
> 
> 
> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 6:11 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
>       paul at paul-laptop:~$ df
>       Filesystem?????????? 1K-blocks????? Used Available Use% Mounted
>       on
>       /dev/sda1???????????? 55292308? 29501632? 22981948? 57% /
>       none?????????????????? 1022464?????? 300?? 1022164?? 1% /dev
>       none?????????????????? 1026704?????? 728?? 1025976?? 1% /dev/shm
>       none?????????????????? 1026704??????? 88?? 1026616?? 1% /var/run
>       none?????????????????? 1026704???????? 0?? 1026704?? 0%
>       /var/lock
>       none?????????????????? 1026704???????? 0?? 1026704?? 0%
>       /lib/init/rw
>
>       How typical is it to create a separate Root, Home, Usr, Var,Tmp
>       Partitions. Like you said I may want to consider separate /usr,
>       /home partitions.
>
>       Thanks
>
>       Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 17:56:19 -0600
>       From: tclug at freakzilla.com
>       To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>       Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for
>       basic use?
> 
> The 'df' command will tell you where everything is mounted. It looks very 
> much to me like you have everything on the same partition (except swap).
> 
> On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
> 
> > I just opened up Gparted on my Laptop here running Ubuntu 10.04.
> 
> 
> > 
> > It appears there are 3 partitions listed.
> > 
> > /sda1 ext4
> > /sda2 extended
> > ?/sda5 linux-swap
> > 
> > I know this is a basic question but how can I see which partition my /home
> 
> 
> > and /usr/local etc directories are filed under? I noticed in my case that 
> my
> > /usr/local/etc directory is basically empty but not the /usr directory.
> > 
> > Thank You.
> > 
> > > Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 15:45:56 -0600
> 
> 
> > > From: tclug at freakzilla.com
> > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic us
> e?
> 
> 
> > >
> > > Just want to point out that you CAN skip versions with Ubuntu. Probably
> > > not unlimited version skips, but I just went from 12.04 to 13.10 on a
> > > couple of machines in one go.
> 
> 
> > >
> > > Now if you're going to do a reinstall, well, this is why we keep /home a
> nd
> > > /usr/local etc on separate partitions (: You can reinstall the OS and ke
> ep
> > > all your data and configuration.
> 
> 
> > >
> > > On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, Mike Miller wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
> > > >
> 
> 
> > > >> On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> For a basic home/office computer user running an older FireFox versi
> on
> > say
> > > >>> '20.0' under Ubuntu 10.04 etc '2.6.-- kernel' will new web pages and
> 
> 
> > > >>> webpage design soon require the need for a later version of FireFox 
> or
> > > >>> Opera to 'surf' the web? Just a curious question I am a noob.
> > > >>
> > > >> Might be some small things that won't work, but in general you should
> 
> 
> > be
> > > >> fine.
> > > >>
> > > >> Of course, as time goes on, those small things will get bigger and
> > bigger.
> > > >> Still, basic HTML with basic javascript should be fine for a long tim
> e.
> 
> 
> > It
> > > >> all depends on what kind of content you want.
> > > >>
> > > >> May I ask why you're running such an old version of Ubuntu?
> > > >
> > > >
> 
> 
> > > > I wasn't the OP (that was paul g), but I'm using 10.10 on my home Linu
> x
> > box.
> > > > One reason for that is I tried to upgrade and it did not work. I think
> > > > sometime in the next few months I'll get around to just redoing
> 
> 
> > everything to
> > > > and installing fresh. Apparently, if you don't upgrade soon enough, yo
> u
> > > > can't upgrade at all. I'm not sure why. Another Ubuntu thing is that y
> ou
> > > > can only upgrade to the next version -- you can't skip ahead. I don't
> 
> 
> > know
> > > > why that is, but it's annoying. So now I'm trying to keep up-to-date o
> n
> > the
> > > > machines that are current enough to allow upgrades. I don't like to
> > upgrade
> 
> 
> > > > immediately when a new version comes out, but maybe a month later, in
> > case
> > > > they had some bugs to work out.
> > > >
> > > > I'm using Firefox 11.0 on that Ubuntu 10.10 box and it seems to be
> 
> 
> > working
> > > > fine. I don't know what I'll be getting for upgrading Firefox -- that
> > will
> > > > be interesting to see.
> > > >
> > > > I have an even older box that I use more -- it's running Ubuntu 9.10. 
> I
> 
> 
> > > > would love to get that upgraded, too. The main problem there is that I
> 'm
> > > > constantly using it. I bought another machine to replace it, but I
> > couldn't
> > > > get everything to work on that new machine. I should try again. We hav
> e
> 
> 
> > to
> > > > admit that there are all kinds of hassles with making these machines d
> o
> > what
> > > > we want. I'm getting a lot out of it, though. A lot. There is nothing 
> in
> > > > the conventional Mac/Windows world to compare.
> 
> 
> > > >
> > > > On that 9.10 machine I'm mostly using Chromium-Browser. It gives me th
> is
> > > > version information:
> > > >
> > > > 13.0.768.0 (Developer Build 85577 Linux) Ubuntu 9.10
> 
> 
> > > >
> > > > I'm sure that's a few years out of date. It definitely is starting to
> > cause
> > > > some problems. The biggest problem is that I can't seem to upgrade the
> 
> 
> > flash
> > > > and some web sites won't work because of that. Some sites will complai
> n
> > > > about my old browser and tell me to upgrade (which I cannot do, it
> > seems),
> > > > but those sites still work OK, as far as I can tell.
> 
> 
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> 
> 
> > > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> 
> 
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> > 
> >
>
>       _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing
>       List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>       http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List -
> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
>

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Sun Feb 23 19:59:05 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 19:59:05 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231737360.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231348080.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231544150.7399@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231737360.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231958250.7767@cockerel.yaron.org>

Like I said, I don't think it's an unlimited skip, and some versions might 
be better at it than others. I used do-release-upgrade -d, and it worked 
for me. Might not have worked as well in previous versions.

On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, Mike Miller wrote:

> On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
>
>> Just want to point out that you CAN skip versions with Ubuntu. Probably not 
>> unlimited version skips, but I just went from 12.04 to 13.10 on a couple of 
>> machines in one go.
>
> That's good news, but how do you do it?  The update-manager doesn't offer any 
> options of which version to upgrade to, as far as I can tell.  I looked at 
> "man do-release-upgrade" and saw the "-d" option:
>
>    -d, --devel-release
>          Check if upgrading to the latest devel release is possible
>
> I ran that on three machines.  On one is running Ubuntu 12.04.2 LTS and it 
> reported downloading trusty.tar.gz, which would be Ubuntu 14.04.  That makes 
> sense because 14.04 would be the next avaiable LTS, but I think it's still in 
> alpha.
>
> Another was running Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick), but it failed while trying to 
> download natty.tar.gz, which would be Ubuntu 11.04:
>
> Checking for a new ubuntu release
> Err Upgrade tool signature
>  404  Not Found [IP: 91.189.91.14 80]
> Err Upgrade tool
>  404  Not Found [IP: 91.189.91.14 80]
> Fetched 0B in 0s (0B/s)
> WARNING:root:file 'natty.tar.gz.gpg' missing
> Failed to fetch
> Fetching the upgrade failed. There may be a network problem.
>
> There is no network problem, at least not on my end.  Maybe there's someplace 
> that I can get the .gpg file, and then maybe it will work.
>
>
> A third machine was running Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic) and it downloaded 
> lucid.tar.gz, which would be Ubuntu 10.04
>
> So it seems like the -d option is not causing Ubuntu to find "the latest 
> devel release" but only the next devel release.
>
>
>
>> Now if you're going to do a reinstall, well, this is why we keep /home and 
>> /usr/local etc on separate partitions (: You can reinstall the OS and keep 
>> all your data and configuration.
>
> That sounds like a reasonable idea, but I haven't been doing that.  It isn't 
> too big of a deal to copy from backup, though.
>
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From kc0iog at gmail.com  Sun Feb 23 20:38:24 2014
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 20:38:24 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Dell server question
In-Reply-To: <CAMg8xatGuVa9ghXj9Es8wY_C+6ZqDPo5D8tANMSJS8U-F_Lo+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALpcnozS1fTZXxwF17YD2CiyzjpNzzvciRSWsM2CogdxLDmyvQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMg8xatGuVa9ghXj9Es8wY_C+6ZqDPo5D8tANMSJS8U-F_Lo+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3QoPnCP1gXR+LuzxgfGs4sF_hhzssADs00xTf3JShoZY-e2Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Munir Nassar <tclug at beitsahour.net> wrote:
> The problem is most likely twofold,
> 1. Space, modern GPUs are big and bulky, mostly due to the heatsinks.
> 1.5 heat dissipation due to the space constraints.
> 2. power, most server platforms are not equipped with the additional
> power output(PCIe power rails) to support a GPU.

I recently had an R620 apart.  Munir is correct, there may not be
enough room for the heatsink in the PCI-e slot.  There is definitely
no where for the heat to go.  If you opt for the 10Gb onboard NIC,
you'll see it has a heat pipe.  If a NIC (of all things) needs a heat
pipe, I can only imagine what a GPU would need in the confined space.

Brian

From nospam at hiltonbsd.com  Sun Feb 23 20:13:16 2014
From: nospam at hiltonbsd.com (Stephen Hilton)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 20:13:16 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Domain registrars?
In-Reply-To: <CAKumxBxJTPRwpeF_gB=umD9MZeabTjsJWdJEXNSC9rE_6vM0_w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKumxBxJTPRwpeF_gB=umD9MZeabTjsJWdJEXNSC9rE_6vM0_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <530AAABC.8060204@hiltonbsd.com>

On 1/31/14 7:43 AM, Jeff Jensen wrote:
> Does anyone have good recommendations?
>
> Is namecheap one of the least expensive that also has a good product 
> and service?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
I have been using namecheap for a couple of years now and have no 
complaints about cost or service.  They have recently updated their site 
and check out is nice and streamlined.

As a real plus, from their February newsletter:

----------snip----------
We're super excited to share our results of the Namecheap MYDD promotion 
earlier this month. Thanks to you, we were able to raise *$42,451.50* to 
the Electronic Frontier Foundation. This money will go directly toward 
supporting a free and open Internet.
----------snip----------
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Feb 24 03:14:00 2014
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 03:14:00 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231958250.7767@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231348080.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231544150.7399@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231737360.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231958250.7767@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402240310450.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:

> Like I said, I don't think it's an unlimited skip, and some versions 
> might be better at it than others. I used do-release-upgrade -d, and it 
> worked for me. Might not have worked as well in previous versions.

That is sort of consistent with what happened with my 12.04.2 LTS going to 
14.04.  It probably has something to do with it being LTS.  The other two 
were not LTS and they did not try to skip.

Clearly, the man page for do-release-upgrade is not correct in stating 
that the -d option will "Check if upgrading to the latest devel release is 
possible."  It almost always checks only for the next release from 6 
months after the installed release.

Mike

From david.wagle at gmail.com  Mon Feb 24 09:27:40 2014
From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 09:27:40 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402240310450.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231348080.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231544150.7399@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231737360.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231958250.7767@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402240310450.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAJdTJyPbjMEPhH0N154u+Z4nN18KCZ8Gfo4LT94JHPr9giSn-Q@mail.gmail.com>

With modern file systems and home hardware raid capabilities, there really
isn't a technical downside to simply going with a / partition. If you have
an SSD drive you can always go with / on the SSD and /home for all the
data. More than that is really kind of missing the points of LVM and the
raid capabilities inherent in the hardware.


On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 3:14 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
>
>  Like I said, I don't think it's an unlimited skip, and some versions
>> might be better at it than others. I used do-release-upgrade -d, and it
>> worked for me. Might not have worked as well in previous versions.
>>
>
> That is sort of consistent with what happened with my 12.04.2 LTS going to
> 14.04.  It probably has something to do with it being LTS.  The other two
> were not LTS and they did not try to skip.
>
> Clearly, the man page for do-release-upgrade is not correct in stating
> that the -d option will "Check if upgrading to the latest devel release is
> possible."  It almost always checks only for the next release from 6 months
> after the installed release.
>
>
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 24 12:22:15 2014
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 12:22:15 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Downloads cut off
Message-ID: <CABWFOjsGWeqJk-NrzrAfDt0wKD=eEQxx2r=L81f_sP3AYQFJGg@mail.gmail.com>

Yesterday I was downloading a Manjaro Linux file that was 1.1 gig.
Two times the download was stopped in the middle.  Both of those
times I had initiated a second download of a smaller file.  The down-
load of the smaller files completed fine, but the download of Manjaro
was halted before completion.  I don't have a real fast internet
connection, but am getting a great deal on it, so can't complain too
much.  The machine I was downloading Manjaro on has Fedora
on it and the machine I initiated the smaller downloads on is
running Arch.
Both times the download of Manjaro had gotten over 400 meg.
It seemed like a waste of resources to download it from the
beginning multiple times.  Any ideas of things I could do to improve
the situation?  It would be nice if a download would just slow way
down for a while rather than being aborted.  Thanks in advance.

-- 
Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - So far G-d has helped us.
http://webEbenezer.net
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From harlan at bloomenterprises.org  Mon Feb 24 12:28:02 2014
From: harlan at bloomenterprises.org (Harlan H. Bloom)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 12:28:02 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Downloads cut off
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjsGWeqJk-NrzrAfDt0wKD=eEQxx2r=L81f_sP3AYQFJGg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjsGWeqJk-NrzrAfDt0wKD=eEQxx2r=L81f_sP3AYQFJGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <25248759.2800.1393266474282.JavaMail.harlan@star8>

Does the file have a direct URL? If so, you could use wget and just keep restarting it. Not prettiest method, but it has worked for me several times. 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Brian Wood" <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> 
To: "tclug-list" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 12:22:15 PM 
Subject: [tclug-list] Downloads cut off 





Yesterday I was downloading a Manjaro Linux file that was 1.1 gig. 

Two times the download was stopped in the middle. Both of those 
times I had initiated a second download of a smaller file. The down- 

load of the smaller files completed fine, but the download of Manjaro 

was halted before completion. I don't have a real fast internet 
connection, but am getting a great deal on it, so can't complain too 
much. The machine I was downloading Manjaro on has Fedora 
on it and the machine I initiated the smaller downloads on is 

running Arch. 

Both times the download of Manjaro had gotten over 400 meg. 

It seemed like a waste of resources to download it from the 
beginning multiple times. Any ideas of things I could do to improve 

the situation? It would be nice if a download would just slow way 
down for a while rather than being aborted. Thanks in advance. 

-- 

Brian 
Ebenezer Enterprises - So far G-d has helped us. 

http://webEbenezer.net 
_______________________________________________ 
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota 
tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 

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From stuporglue at gmail.com  Mon Feb 24 12:38:48 2014
From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 12:38:48 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Downloads cut off
In-Reply-To: <25248759.2800.1393266474282.JavaMail.harlan@star8>
References: <CABWFOjsGWeqJk-NrzrAfDt0wKD=eEQxx2r=L81f_sP3AYQFJGg@mail.gmail.com>
 <25248759.2800.1393266474282.JavaMail.harlan@star8>
Message-ID: <CAFE18KVVyiy6UijNK_iJEcyeEceu4ekmJJhrG+Z0Kz2EvuSGvw@mail.gmail.com>

Here's a second vote for using "wget -c" to restart downloads. It has
worked for me many times.

Another option in this case would be to use the Manjaro torrents. Not only
will it deal with download interruptions, it may download the file faster
since it will be able to pull from multiple peers at once.

--
Michael Moore



On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Harlan H. Bloom <
harlan at bloomenterprises.org> wrote:

> Does the file have a direct URL?  If so, you could use wget and just keep
> restarting it.  Not prettiest method, but it has worked for me several
> times.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Brian Wood" <woodbrian77 at gmail.com>
> *To: *"tclug-list" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> *Sent: *Monday, February 24, 2014 12:22:15 PM
> *Subject: *[tclug-list] Downloads cut off
>
>
>
> Yesterday I was downloading a Manjaro Linux file that was 1.1 gig.
> Two times the download was stopped in the middle.  Both of those
> times I had initiated a second download of a smaller file.  The down-
> load of the smaller files completed fine, but the download of Manjaro
> was halted before completion.  I don't have a real fast internet
> connection, but am getting a great deal on it, so can't complain too
> much.  The machine I was downloading Manjaro on has Fedora
> on it and the machine I initiated the smaller downloads on is
> running Arch.
> Both times the download of Manjaro had gotten over 400 meg.
> It seemed like a waste of resources to download it from the
> beginning multiple times.  Any ideas of things I could do to improve
> the situation?  It would be nice if a download would just slow way
> down for a while rather than being aborted.  Thanks in advance.
>
> --
> Brian
> Ebenezer Enterprises - So far G-d has helped us.
> http://webEbenezer.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From jus at krytosvirus.com  Mon Feb 24 12:43:04 2014
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 12:43:04 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use?
Message-ID: <ogg3skv3xj9fqvn9qctk4ruh.1393267062169@email.android.com>

If you don't mind DoS from logs filling up your entire hard drive. All sorts of things break when you have no free disk space.?

If your system does not have direct access from the Internet this is significantly limited risk. A lot of people run web/mail/ssh/ftp/etc services. If it's on a laptop and you bring it to an untrusted network (eg local coffee wifi) you're at risk.

Additionally depending on what you're doing some filesytem types or flags make be desirable for some partitions and not for others. A simple example is to set "noatime" on ext3 for partitions running large mail servers that have lots of smaller files to vastly improve performance. This particular case may or may not be applicable today as I've not setup and maintained an smtp server in along time (thankfully).?

Here is some additional justification from Opening for partition separation including (secure) ?defaults they use

http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#Partitioning




-------- Original message --------
From: David Wagle <david.wagle at gmail.com> 
Date:02/24/2014  9:27 AM  (GMT-06:00) 
To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Firefox 20.0 become obselete for basic use? 

With modern file systems and home hardware raid capabilities, there really isn't a technical downside to simply going with a / partition. If you have an SSD drive you can always go with / on the SSD and /home for all the data. More than that is really kind of missing the points of LVM and the raid capabilities inherent in the hardware.?


On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 3:14 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:

Like I said, I don't think it's an unlimited skip, and some versions might be better at it than others. I used do-release-upgrade -d, and it worked for me. Might not have worked as well in previous versions.

That is sort of consistent with what happened with my 12.04.2 LTS going to 14.04. ?It probably has something to do with it being LTS. ?The other two were not LTS and they did not try to skip.

Clearly, the man page for do-release-upgrade is not correct in stating that the -d option will "Check if upgrading to the latest devel release is possible." ?It almost always checks only for the next release from 6 months after the installed release.


Mike
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Mon Feb 24 12:44:30 2014
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 12:44:30 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Downloads cut off
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjsGWeqJk-NrzrAfDt0wKD=eEQxx2r=L81f_sP3AYQFJGg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjsGWeqJk-NrzrAfDt0wKD=eEQxx2r=L81f_sP3AYQFJGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACEdYO1HND+yezyROJx13a3DhN292gK0=i+JgdjJX4GazZFmDg@mail.gmail.com>

aria2 is another cli option.

Torrents usually work best IMO.
--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com


On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yesterday I was downloading a Manjaro Linux file that was 1.1 gig.
> Two times the download was stopped in the middle.  Both of those
> times I had initiated a second download of a smaller file.  The down-
> load of the smaller files completed fine, but the download of Manjaro
> was halted before completion.  I don't have a real fast internet
> connection, but am getting a great deal on it, so can't complain too
> much.  The machine I was downloading Manjaro on has Fedora
> on it and the machine I initiated the smaller downloads on is
> running Arch.
> Both times the download of Manjaro had gotten over 400 meg.
> It seemed like a waste of resources to download it from the
> beginning multiple times.  Any ideas of things I could do to improve
> the situation?  It would be nice if a download would just slow way
> down for a while rather than being aborted.  Thanks in advance.
>
> --
> Brian
> Ebenezer Enterprises - So far G-d has helped us.
> http://webEbenezer.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From jmore at starmind.org  Mon Feb 24 12:45:54 2014
From: jmore at starmind.org (Josh More)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 12:45:54 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Downloads cut off
In-Reply-To: <CAFE18KVVyiy6UijNK_iJEcyeEceu4ekmJJhrG+Z0Kz2EvuSGvw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjsGWeqJk-NrzrAfDt0wKD=eEQxx2r=L81f_sP3AYQFJGg@mail.gmail.com>
 <25248759.2800.1393266474282.JavaMail.harlan@star8>
 <CAFE18KVVyiy6UijNK_iJEcyeEceu4ekmJJhrG+Z0Kz2EvuSGvw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3GUt_J8FLz0t7tE+akWWm5z-5H4k=4qZTnRGRqYsxqTaiLXg@mail.gmail.com>

Try uget. It's designed for exactly this problem.

I just used it to get a 55Gb backup file.  (Yes, really.  The provider
refused to split the file up to make it easier to download.)

-Josh


On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 12:38 PM, Michael Moore <stuporglue at gmail.com>wrote:

> Here's a second vote for using "wget -c" to restart downloads. It has
> worked for me many times.
>
> Another option in this case would be to use the Manjaro torrents. Not only
> will it deal with download interruptions, it may download the file faster
> since it will be able to pull from multiple peers at once.
>
> --
> Michael Moore
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Harlan H. Bloom <
> harlan at bloomenterprises.org> wrote:
>
>> Does the file have a direct URL?  If so, you could use wget and just keep
>> restarting it.  Not prettiest method, but it has worked for me several
>> times.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From: *"Brian Wood" <woodbrian77 at gmail.com>
>> *To: *"tclug-list" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> *Sent: *Monday, February 24, 2014 12:22:15 PM
>> *Subject: *[tclug-list] Downloads cut off
>>
>>
>>
>> Yesterday I was downloading a Manjaro Linux file that was 1.1 gig.
>> Two times the download was stopped in the middle.  Both of those
>> times I had initiated a second download of a smaller file.  The down-
>> load of the smaller files completed fine, but the download of Manjaro
>> was halted before completion.  I don't have a real fast internet
>> connection, but am getting a great deal on it, so can't complain too
>> much.  The machine I was downloading Manjaro on has Fedora
>> on it and the machine I initiated the smaller downloads on is
>> running Arch.
>> Both times the download of Manjaro had gotten over 400 meg.
>> It seemed like a waste of resources to download it from the
>> beginning multiple times.  Any ideas of things I could do to improve
>> the situation?  It would be nice if a download would just slow way
>> down for a while rather than being aborted.  Thanks in advance.
>>
>> --
>> Brian
>> Ebenezer Enterprises - So far G-d has helped us.
>> http://webEbenezer.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From ryanjcole at me.com  Mon Feb 24 12:49:31 2014
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 12:49:31 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Downloads cut off
In-Reply-To: <CAB3GUt_J8FLz0t7tE+akWWm5z-5H4k=4qZTnRGRqYsxqTaiLXg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjsGWeqJk-NrzrAfDt0wKD=eEQxx2r=L81f_sP3AYQFJGg@mail.gmail.com>
 <25248759.2800.1393266474282.JavaMail.harlan@star8>
 <CAFE18KVVyiy6UijNK_iJEcyeEceu4ekmJJhrG+Z0Kz2EvuSGvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAB3GUt_J8FLz0t7tE+akWWm5z-5H4k=4qZTnRGRqYsxqTaiLXg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <07733A80-A1D3-4EEC-A1ED-03A3977426E8@me.com>


On Feb 24, 2014, at 12:45 PM, Josh More <jmore at starmind.org> wrote:

> Try uget. It's designed for exactly this problem.
> 
> I just used it to get a 55Gb backup file.  (Yes, really.  The provider refused to split the file up to make it easier to download.)

As much as I find that annoying as someone that occasionally needs to send video projects and has had issues with slicing up archives I understand why. For my photo customers I make zip files of 250 images each - which tends to be about 3GB per pack file.


> -Josh
> 
> 
> On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 12:38 PM, Michael Moore <stuporglue at gmail.com> wrote:
> Here's a second vote for using "wget -c" to restart downloads. It has worked for me many times. 
> 
> Another option in this case would be to use the Manjaro torrents. Not only will it deal with download interruptions, it may download the file faster since it will be able to pull from multiple peers at once. 
> 
> --
> Michael Moore
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Harlan H. Bloom <harlan at bloomenterprises.org> wrote:
> Does the file have a direct URL?  If so, you could use wget and just keep restarting it.  Not prettiest method, but it has worked for me several times.
> 
> From: "Brian Wood" <woodbrian77 at gmail.com>
> To: "tclug-list" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 12:22:15 PM
> Subject: [tclug-list] Downloads cut off
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday I was downloading a Manjaro Linux file that was 1.1 gig.
> Two times the download was stopped in the middle.  Both of those
> times I had initiated a second download of a smaller file.  The down-
> load of the smaller files completed fine, but the download of Manjaro
> was halted before completion.  I don't have a real fast internet 
> connection, but am getting a great deal on it, so can't complain too 
> much.  The machine I was downloading Manjaro on has Fedora 
> on it and the machine I initiated the smaller downloads on is
> running Arch. 
> Both times the download of Manjaro had gotten over 400 meg.
> It seemed like a waste of resources to download it from the 
> beginning multiple times.  Any ideas of things I could do to improve
> the situation?  It would be nice if a download would just slow way 
> down for a while rather than being aborted.  Thanks in advance.
> 
> -- 
> Brian
> Ebenezer Enterprises - So far G-d has helped us.
> http://webEbenezer.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Feb 24 13:43:24 2014
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 13:43:24 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] zip -0 and Apache CGI (was "Downloads cut off")
In-Reply-To: <07733A80-A1D3-4EEC-A1ED-03A3977426E8@me.com>
References: <CABWFOjsGWeqJk-NrzrAfDt0wKD=eEQxx2r=L81f_sP3AYQFJGg@mail.gmail.com>
 <25248759.2800.1393266474282.JavaMail.harlan@star8>
 <CAFE18KVVyiy6UijNK_iJEcyeEceu4ekmJJhrG+Z0Kz2EvuSGvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAB3GUt_J8FLz0t7tE+akWWm5z-5H4k=4qZTnRGRqYsxqTaiLXg@mail.gmail.com>
 <07733A80-A1D3-4EEC-A1ED-03A3977426E8@me.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402241317290.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Mon, 24 Feb 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote:

> As much as I find that annoying as someone that occasionally needs to 
> send video projects and has had issues with slicing up archives I 
> understand why. For my photo customers I make zip files of 250 images 
> each - which tends to be about 3GB per pack file.

This reminds me to ask about something I've been thinking of doing with 
photos on web pages and Apache cgi-bin.  I have photos on web pages with 
this kind of layout:

http://genetsim.org/Seoul/20100605_Seoul/

I wrote scripts that compile pages from a few basic elements -- a 
collection of image files in a directory, one file with captions, another 
file with intro info, another with title.

What I'd like to do is add a link that allows the user to click on it and 
download the whole works in a .zip file.  I think the zip file can be 
written on the fly instead of storing a bunch of .zip files on the web 
server, doubling the space used by photos.

Have any of you done something like this using cgi-bin?  It seems doable 
but it has been awhile since I've done anything like this.

One trick I've learned is that there is little value in trying to compress 
.jpg files because they are already compressed.  So if most of your data 
is .jpg, you can put it into a .zip without compression using "zip -0" and 
it will zip/unzip a little faster without being much bigger.  I would 
definitely use "zip -0" in the cgi script.

Here's an example use of zip -0 (discussion at end):

$ wc -c *.jpg | tail -1
48412703 total

$ time -p zip test.zip *.jpg &>/dev/null
real 1.94
user 1.80
sys 0.08

$ wc -c test.zip
48320914 test.zip

$ mkdir test ; cd test

$ time -p unzip ../test.zip &>/dev/null
real 0.37
user 0.29
sys 0.08

$ rm *.jpg ; cd ..

$ time -p zip -0 test.zip *.jpg &>/dev/null
real 0.23
user 0.08
sys 0.15

$ wc -c test.zip
48415325 test.zip

$ cd test

$ time -p unzip ../test.zip &>/dev/null
real 0.31
user 0.21
sys 0.10


user + sys gives CPU time, and that is 1.88 for zip and 0.23 for zip -0, 
so that's a factor of about 8 times the CPU for zip.  The zipped file also 
unzips slightly faster when zip -0 is used, but that small difference 
isn't important because the unzip will be someone else's problem.

Importantly, the file sizes are trivially different:

jpg size:    48412703
zip size:    48320914
zip -0 size: 48415325

The zip -0 file is bigger than the ordinary zip file by almost exactly 1% 
and it's almost identical to the volume of the original .jpg files.

Mike

From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com  Mon Feb 24 13:55:50 2014
From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (B-o-B De Mars)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 13:55:50 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] CIFS issues after P2V
Message-ID: <530BA3C6.6060803@gmail.com>

Hello, and a good day to you all.  I recently did a Physical to Virtual 
(VMware esxi 5.1) on an old HP server (circa 2006 - running Slackware 
12.1 - Installed sometime in 2008).

This machine runs a lot of the home grown php applications for the 
company I work for.  Someday when time permits, I will migrate these php 
programs to a more current OS, but for now I need to get this stuff 
running.

I am having an issue now with my php programs accessing various windows 
boxes using Samba (CIFS).  I have no problems mounting the shares in 
question.  I can access the mounted shares no problem.  When my php 
programs try to read a files in the share I get an access denied or 
failed to load blah blah blah.

I tried to tweak my mount command to include the php user (ie, 
uid=apache, gid=apache), but still no luck.

I am curious is anyone else out there had smb/cifs issues like this 
before when they did a P2V?

Thanks!

Mr. B-o-B


From stuporglue at gmail.com  Mon Feb 24 14:11:43 2014
From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 14:11:43 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] zip -0 and Apache CGI (was "Downloads cut off")
Message-ID: <CAFE18KVrLjfh91tpgCVUniGZczhAduP_4RmMuN0RObuqiMpkcA@mail.gmail.com>

>
> This reminds me to ask about something I've been thinking of doing with
>> photos on web pages and Apache cgi-bin.  I have photos on web pages with
>> this kind of layout:
>>
>
> http://genetsim.org/Seoul/20100605_Seoul/
>
> I wrote scripts that compile pages from a few basic elements -- a
> collection of image files in a directory, one file with captions, another
> file with intro info, another with title.
>
> What I'd like to do is add a link that allows the user to click on it and
> download the whole works in a .zip file.  I think the zip file can be
> written on the fly instead of storing a bunch of .zip files on the web
> server, doubling the space used by photos.
>
> Have any of you done something like this using cgi-bin?  It seems doable
> but it has been awhile since I've done anything like this.


I like to make a temp file and send that so that I can indicate the file
size to the user. If you don't indicate a file size the progress bar in
their download manager just goes back and forth.

However, if you want to just send a zip file which is created on the fly,
you can do something as simple as this:

I save and tried this as a CGI script and it worked. The '-' tells zip to
send the zip file to stdout, which in a CGI scenario means to send it to
the browser.



#!/bin/bash

echo "Content-type: application/octet-stream"
echo "Content-Disposition: attachment; filename='mydownload.zip'"
echo  ""

zip -0 - /var/www/html/ziptest/*


--
Michael Moore
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From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Mon Feb 24 14:12:20 2014
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 14:12:20 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] CIFS issues after P2V
In-Reply-To: <530BA3C6.6060803@gmail.com>
References: <530BA3C6.6060803@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACEdYO3XzJiX=fw_ES7uKgmONW4zxiVvyyNgDau86H66Dxuf8w@mail.gmail.com>

You are using the correct IDs for the uid, gid options correct? For
example uid=1001,gid=100 (correspond appropriately to what your passwd
file / id command displays). If that's good, what ownership
information is displayed when you list the directory of the mounted
share since you're able to browse it?
--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com


On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 1:55 PM, B-o-B De Mars <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello, and a good day to you all.  I recently did a Physical to Virtual
> (VMware esxi 5.1) on an old HP server (circa 2006 - running Slackware 12.1 -
> Installed sometime in 2008).
>
> This machine runs a lot of the home grown php applications for the company I
> work for.  Someday when time permits, I will migrate these php programs to a
> more current OS, but for now I need to get this stuff running.
>
> I am having an issue now with my php programs accessing various windows
> boxes using Samba (CIFS).  I have no problems mounting the shares in
> question.  I can access the mounted shares no problem.  When my php programs
> try to read a files in the share I get an access denied or failed to load
> blah blah blah.
>
> I tried to tweak my mount command to include the php user (ie, uid=apache,
> gid=apache), but still no luck.
>
> I am curious is anyone else out there had smb/cifs issues like this before
> when they did a P2V?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mr. B-o-B
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Feb 24 14:23:33 2014
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 14:23:33 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] getting CPU time
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402241414380.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

When I use time -p, I get seconds of CPU time divided between user and 
sys:

$ time -p zip -0 test.zip *.jpg &>/dev/null
real 0.23
user 0.11
sys 0.13

Explanation:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/556405/what-do-real-user-and-sys-mean-in-the-output-of-time1

I really want user *plus* sys.  This does it:

$ ( time -p zip -0 test.zip *.jpg &>/dev/null ) |& awk 'NR>1 {s+=$2}END{print "CPU time = "s}'
CPU time = 0.24

So I put the time command in parens to make a subshell, then I use the |& 
redirect to get the stderr into awk.  Using NR>1 (NR is number of record) 
I skip the first line and sum up the values on the remaining lines.  I 
printed the time with "CPU time = " but I could have done without that:

$ ( time -p zip -0 test.zip *.jpg &>/dev/null ) |& awk 'NR>1 {s+=$2}END{print s}'
0.24


Mike

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Feb 24 14:42:27 2014
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 14:42:27 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] zip -0 and Apache CGI (was "Downloads cut off")
In-Reply-To: <CAFE18KVrLjfh91tpgCVUniGZczhAduP_4RmMuN0RObuqiMpkcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFE18KVrLjfh91tpgCVUniGZczhAduP_4RmMuN0RObuqiMpkcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402241424520.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Mon, 24 Feb 2014, Michael Moore wrote:

>>> This reminds me to ask about something I've been thinking of doing 
>>> with photos on web pages and Apache cgi-bin.  I have photos on web 
>>> pages with this kind of layout:
>>>
>>
>> http://genetsim.org/Seoul/20100605_Seoul/
>>
>> I wrote scripts that compile pages from a few basic elements -- a 
>> collection of image files in a directory, one file with captions, 
>> another file with intro info, another with title.
>>
>> What I'd like to do is add a link that allows the user to click on it 
>> and download the whole works in a .zip file.  I think the zip file can 
>> be written on the fly instead of storing a bunch of .zip files on the 
>> web server, doubling the space used by photos.
>>
>> Have any of you done something like this using cgi-bin?  It seems 
>> doable but it has been awhile since I've done anything like this.
>
>
> I like to make a temp file and send that so that I can indicate the file 
> size to the user. If you don't indicate a file size the progress bar in 
> their download manager just goes back and forth.
>
> However, if you want to just send a zip file which is created on the 
> fly, you can do something as simple as this:
>
> I save and tried this as a CGI script and it worked. The '-' tells zip 
> to send the zip file to stdout, which in a CGI scenario means to send it 
> to the browser.
>
>
>
> #!/bin/bash
>
> echo "Content-type: application/octet-stream"
> echo "Content-Disposition: attachment; filename='mydownload.zip'"
> echo  ""
>
> zip -0 - /var/www/html/ziptest/*


Thanks for the tip, Michael.  I like the idea of sending a file size.  Do 
you think it would be OK to use the approximate file size I obain using 
this command:

$ du -sb "$DIR" | awk '{print $1}'

That number is usually about 0.5% smaller than the .zip file size.  How do 
you report the filesize?

On the other hand, making a temp file isn't a big deal.  I just don't want 
to store all the .zip files, one per directory.

I guess I need to write the script so that it takes the directory name 
(with path) as an argument.

Mike

From stuporglue at gmail.com  Mon Feb 24 14:48:46 2014
From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 14:48:46 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] zip -0 and Apache CGI (was "Downloads cut off")
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402241424520.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <CAFE18KVrLjfh91tpgCVUniGZczhAduP_4RmMuN0RObuqiMpkcA@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402241424520.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAFE18KX2wAVw9UA+AJwT+SxiyxR6LQULPZ9TkvC1fTRXQ9HRNw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 2:42 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 24 Feb 2014, Michael Moore wrote:
>
>  This reminds me to ask about something I've been thinking of doing with
>>>> photos on web pages and Apache cgi-bin.  I have photos on web pages with
>>>> this kind of layout:
>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://genetsim.org/Seoul/20100605_Seoul/
>>>
>>> I wrote scripts that compile pages from a few basic elements -- a
>>> collection of image files in a directory, one file with captions, another
>>> file with intro info, another with title.
>>>
>>> What I'd like to do is add a link that allows the user to click on it
>>> and download the whole works in a .zip file.  I think the zip file can be
>>> written on the fly instead of storing a bunch of .zip files on the web
>>> server, doubling the space used by photos.
>>>
>>> Have any of you done something like this using cgi-bin?  It seems doable
>>> but it has been awhile since I've done anything like this.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I like to make a temp file and send that so that I can indicate the file
>> size to the user. If you don't indicate a file size the progress bar in
>> their download manager just goes back and forth.
>>
>> However, if you want to just send a zip file which is created on the fly,
>> you can do something as simple as this:
>>
>> I save and tried this as a CGI script and it worked. The '-' tells zip to
>> send the zip file to stdout, which in a CGI scenario means to send it to
>> the browser.
>>
>>
>>
>> #!/bin/bash
>>
>> echo "Content-type: application/octet-stream"
>> echo "Content-Disposition: attachment; filename='mydownload.zip'"
>> echo  ""
>>
>> zip -0 - /var/www/html/ziptest/*
>>
>
>
> Thanks for the tip, Michael.  I like the idea of sending a file size.  Do
> you think it would be OK to use the approximate file size I obain using
> this command:
>

I don't think that will work. It's been a while since I played around with
it, but I think if the actual size and the size you report are different
some browser complain that the download might be corrupt.

If you have a temp file, you would need to get its size in bytes and then
send the Content-Length header.

$ du -sb "$DIR" | awk '{print $1}'
>
> That number is usually about 0.5% smaller than the .zip file size.  How do
> you report the filesize?
>
> On the other hand, making a temp file isn't a big deal.  I just don't want
> to store all the .zip files, one per directory.
>
> I guess I need to write the script so that it takes the directory name
> (with path) as an argument.


You probably want to pass in some sort of download file name too, otherwise
users end up with archive.zip, archive(1).zip, archive(2).zip and they're
all for different directories.


>
>
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Feb 24 16:26:05 2014
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 16:26:05 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] zip -0 and Apache CGI (was "Downloads cut off")
In-Reply-To: <CAFE18KX2wAVw9UA+AJwT+SxiyxR6LQULPZ9TkvC1fTRXQ9HRNw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFE18KVrLjfh91tpgCVUniGZczhAduP_4RmMuN0RObuqiMpkcA@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402241424520.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <CAFE18KX2wAVw9UA+AJwT+SxiyxR6LQULPZ9TkvC1fTRXQ9HRNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402241608530.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Mon, 24 Feb 2014, Michael Moore wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 2:42 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 24 Feb 2014, Michael Moore wrote:
>>
>>> I like to make a temp file and send that so that I can indicate the 
>>> file size to the user. If you don't indicate a file size the progress 
>>> bar in their download manager just goes back and forth.

Thanks again, Michael.

You've convinced me that the temp file approach is a good idea.  How do 
you do that?  I can do something like this to make the file...

#!/bin/bash

DIR=$1
PATH=/home/user/www/photos

cd $PATH

zip -r "$DIR".zip "$DIR" &>/dev/null


...but then how do I tell Apache to send the file?  Can I do that within 
the script?  I could do something like this:

echo "Content-type: application/octet-stream"
echo "Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=$DIR.zip"
echo  ""

cat $PATH/"$DIR".zip


But if single quotes are required on the filename, that won't work. 
Also, how do I send the file size?

Thanks!

Mike

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Feb 24 17:16:01 2014
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 17:16:01 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] zip -0 and Apache CGI (was "Downloads cut off")
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402241608530.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <CAFE18KVrLjfh91tpgCVUniGZczhAduP_4RmMuN0RObuqiMpkcA@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402241424520.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <CAFE18KX2wAVw9UA+AJwT+SxiyxR6LQULPZ9TkvC1fTRXQ9HRNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402241608530.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402241715020.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Mon, 24 Feb 2014, Mike Miller wrote:

> zip -r "$DIR".zip "$DIR" &>/dev/null

After all I wrote earlier, I forgot my zero option!  It should have been:

zip -0r "$DIR".zip "$DIR" &>/dev/null

Mike

From stuporglue at gmail.com  Mon Feb 24 21:18:52 2014
From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 21:18:52 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] zip -0 and Apache CGI (was "Downloads cut off")
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402241715020.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <CAFE18KVrLjfh91tpgCVUniGZczhAduP_4RmMuN0RObuqiMpkcA@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402241424520.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <CAFE18KX2wAVw9UA+AJwT+SxiyxR6LQULPZ9TkvC1fTRXQ9HRNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402241608530.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402241715020.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAFE18KUx3qdcEDMvbRRXjKiSUb68hrv4ZRqFwV9mLtLnM9rygQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 5:16 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 24 Feb 2014, Mike Miller wrote:
>
>  zip -r "$DIR".zip "$DIR" &>/dev/null
>>
>
> After all I wrote earlier, I forgot my zero option!  It should have been:
>
> zip -0r "$DIR".zip "$DIR" &>/dev/null


Some other language will give you better handling for query string
parameters and to safety check user inputs, but the script below might
work.

The most immediate danger that comes to mind is that a user might request
"../../../path/to/personal/files" and get whatever they want from your
server, all zipped up neatly.  Other dangers like shellcode could exist
too.

--
Michael



#!/bin/bash

# Usage: http://localhost/cgi-bin/zip.sh?path=selectedDir

# Base dir for all photos
BASEPATH="/fatty/Photos/2014"

# This is a simple way to split the query string. Thanks SO!
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3919755/how-to-parse-query-string-from-a-bash-cgi-script
saveIFS=$IFS
IFS='=&'
param=($QUERY_STRING)
IFS=$saveIFS

# Grab the requested directory. Assume that it's value 1
DIR=${param[1]}

# Allowing a user to specify a path to zip and return to them is
# a huge security vulnerability. I doubt this solves the problem
# but it mitigates it slightly

REALPATH=$(readlink -m $BASEPATH/$DIR)

if [[ $BASEPATH =~ ^$REALPATH ]]
then
    # Someone requested a path that left the BASEPATH
    echo -e "Content-type: text/plain\n"
    echo "$REALPATH is not within the allowed path!"
    exit
fi

# Check if the requested directory exists
if [[ ! -d $REALPATH ]]
then
    echo -e "Content-type: text/plain\n"
    echo "The requested directory doesn't exist"
    exit
fi


# Make a temp file
TMPFILE=$(mktemp -u --suffix .zip)

# Change to the parent of the requested directory
cd $(dirname $REALPATH)


# Zip the requested directory into the temp file

zip -0 --quiet -r $TMPFILE $(basename $REALPATH)

# Bad exit from zip. Sad.
ZIPEXIT=$?
if [[ $ZIPEXIT -ne 0 ]]
then
    echo -e "Content-type: text/plain\n"
    echo "Zip had a problem ($ZIPEXIT). Sorry."
    exit
fi

# Get filesize
FILESIZE=$(wc -c $TMPFILE)

echo "Content-type: application/octet-stream"
echo "Content-Disposition: attachment; filename='mydownload.zip'"
echo "Content-Length: $FILESIZE"
echo ""

# Send it and remove it
cat $TMPFILE
rm $TMPFILE
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Mon Feb 24 22:20:02 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 22:20:02 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] zip -0 and Apache CGI (was "Downloads cut off")
In-Reply-To: <CAFE18KUx3qdcEDMvbRRXjKiSUb68hrv4ZRqFwV9mLtLnM9rygQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFE18KVrLjfh91tpgCVUniGZczhAduP_4RmMuN0RObuqiMpkcA@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402241424520.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <CAFE18KX2wAVw9UA+AJwT+SxiyxR6LQULPZ9TkvC1fTRXQ9HRNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402241608530.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402241715020.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <CAFE18KUx3qdcEDMvbRRXjKiSUb68hrv4ZRqFwV9mLtLnM9rygQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402242219300.9299@cockerel.yaron.org>

Might want to throw a --quiet at that zip command, too. Just for kicks.

On Mon, 24 Feb 2014, Michael Moore wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 5:16 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
>       On Mon, 24 Feb 2014, Mike Miller wrote:
>
>             zip -r "$DIR".zip "$DIR" &>/dev/null
> 
> 
> After all I wrote earlier, I forgot my zero option! ?It should have
> been:
> 
> zip -0r "$DIR".zip "$DIR" &>/dev/null
> 
> 
> Some other language will give you better handling for query string
> parameters and to safety check user inputs, but the script below might work.
> 
> The most immediate danger that comes to mind is that a user might request
> "../../../path/to/personal/files" and get whatever they want from your
> server, all zipped up neatly.? Other dangers like shellcode could exist too.
> 
> --
> Michael
> 
> 
> 
> #!/bin/bash
> 
> # Usage: http://localhost/cgi-bin/zip.sh?path=selectedDir
> 
> # Base dir for all photos
> BASEPATH="/fatty/Photos/2014"
> 
> # This is a simple way to split the query string. Thanks SO!?http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3919755/how-to-parse-query-string-from-a
> -bash-cgi-script
> saveIFS=$IFS
> IFS='=&'
> param=($QUERY_STRING)
> IFS=$saveIFS
> 
> # Grab the requested directory. Assume that it's value 1
> DIR=${param[1]}
> 
> # Allowing a user to specify a path to zip and return to them is
> # a huge security vulnerability. I doubt this solves the problem
> # but it mitigates it slightly
> 
> REALPATH=$(readlink -m $BASEPATH/$DIR)
> 
> if [[ $BASEPATH =~ ^$REALPATH ]]
> then
> ??? # Someone requested a path that left the BASEPATH
> ??? echo -e "Content-type: text/plain\n"
> ??? echo "$REALPATH is not within the allowed path!"
> ??? exit
> fi
> 
> # Check if the requested directory exists
> if [[ ! -d $REALPATH ]]
> then
> ??? echo -e "Content-type: text/plain\n"
> ??? echo "The requested directory doesn't exist"
> ??? exit
> fi
> 
> 
> # Make a temp file
> TMPFILE=$(mktemp -u --suffix .zip)
> 
> # Change to the parent of the requested directory
> cd $(dirname $REALPATH)
> 
> 
> # Zip the requested directory into the temp file
> 
> zip -0 --quiet -r $TMPFILE $(basename $REALPATH)
> 
> # Bad exit from zip. Sad.
> ZIPEXIT=$?
> if [[ $ZIPEXIT -ne 0 ]]
> then
> ??? echo -e "Content-type: text/plain\n"
> ??? echo "Zip had a problem ($ZIPEXIT). Sorry."
> ??? exit
> fi
> 
> # Get filesize
> FILESIZE=$(wc -c $TMPFILE)
> 
> echo "Content-type: application/octet-stream"
> echo "Content-Disposition: attachment; filename='mydownload.zip'"
> echo "Content-Length: $FILESIZE"
> echo ""
> 
> # Send it and remove it
> cat $TMPFILE
> rm $TMPFILE
> 
>

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Tue Feb 25 11:49:48 2014
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 11:49:48 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] zip -0 and Apache CGI (was "Downloads cut off")
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402242219300.9299@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <CAFE18KVrLjfh91tpgCVUniGZczhAduP_4RmMuN0RObuqiMpkcA@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402241424520.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <CAFE18KX2wAVw9UA+AJwT+SxiyxR6LQULPZ9TkvC1fTRXQ9HRNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402241608530.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402241715020.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <CAFE18KUx3qdcEDMvbRRXjKiSUb68hrv4ZRqFwV9mLtLnM9rygQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402242219300.9299@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402251139020.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Mon, 24 Feb 2014, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:

> Might want to throw a --quiet at that zip command, too. Just for kicks.
>
>> After all I wrote earlier, I forgot my zero option! ?It should have
>> been:
>> 
>> zip -0r "$DIR".zip "$DIR" &>/dev/null

That's a good tip.  So I can drop the &>/dev/null and go with the -q:

zip -q0r "$DIR".zip "$DIR"

Or maybe I should retain the &>/dev/null to catch stderr, but the thing 
is, the way this will be used, I don't know what happens with stderr when 
Apache is running a cgi-bin script.  Is it logged somewhere?

Mike

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Tue Feb 25 12:06:51 2014
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 12:06:51 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] zip -0 and Apache CGI (was "Downloads cut off")
In-Reply-To: <CAFE18KUx3qdcEDMvbRRXjKiSUb68hrv4ZRqFwV9mLtLnM9rygQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFE18KVrLjfh91tpgCVUniGZczhAduP_4RmMuN0RObuqiMpkcA@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402241424520.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <CAFE18KX2wAVw9UA+AJwT+SxiyxR6LQULPZ9TkvC1fTRXQ9HRNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402241608530.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402241715020.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <CAFE18KUx3qdcEDMvbRRXjKiSUb68hrv4ZRqFwV9mLtLnM9rygQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402251155230.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

Thanks for all the help, Michael.  That was a lot of work and a really big 
help to me.

I just figured out that the single quotes don't force literal 
interpretation of a variable name:

$ FILE=blah ; echo "Content-Disposition: attachment; filename='${FILE}.zip'"
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename='blah.zip'

I didn't know that.  I was expecting the output to look like this:

Content-Disposition: attachment; filename='${FILE}.zip'

I'm more confused now than I used to be about how quoting works:

$ FILE=blah ; echo '${FILE}'
${FILE}

$ FILE=blah ; echo ''${FILE}''
blah

More research is needed.

I see that you used the --quite option in your code before Yaron 
(freakzilla) recommended it:


On Mon, 24 Feb 2014, Michael Moore wrote:

> # Zip the requested directory into the temp file
>
> zip -0 --quiet -r $TMPFILE $(basename $REALPATH)



Thanks again.

Mike

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Wed Feb 26 01:57:18 2014
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 01:57:18 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu do-release-upgrade failing
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231737360.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231348080.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231544150.7399@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231737360.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402260149230.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

I ran "do-release-upgrade -d" on an Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick) box, but the 
command failed while trying to download natty.tar.gz, which would be 
Ubuntu 11.04:

Checking for a new ubuntu release
Err Upgrade tool signature
    404  Not Found [IP: 91.189.91.14 80]
Err Upgrade tool
    404  Not Found [IP: 91.189.91.14 80]
Fetched 0B in 0s (0B/s)
WARNING:root:file 'natty.tar.gz.gpg' missing
Failed to fetch
Fetching the upgrade failed. There may be a network problem.


There is no network problem, at least not on my end.  So what do you think 
I can do about that?  It's not that big of a deal to just start from 
scratch, but this is annoying.  I don't know where it is getting that IP, 
but it seems to be the wrong IP.

Is there another way to do the upgrade?

If I have a new ISO, can I just use that to upgrade to the latest version?

TIA,
Mike

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Wed Feb 26 04:50:32 2014
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 04:50:32 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu do-release-upgrade failing
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402260149230.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231348080.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231544150.7399@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231737360.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402260149230.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9DLr1EQyjoJyXcWv1R_0U5=UFW-Q1tcDP1D39Ar4phHAQ@mail.gmail.com>

when it comes to upgrading to a new release, some say sure why not give it
a try, it worked for me, afterall you do have backups of everything that
matters to you, right?  but then many say don't waste your time, too often
it just doesn't work, or you end up with a mess.

so the best advice seems to be you should plan on doing a fresh install,
even if you do spend the time trying the upgrade path.  and your fresh
install can be any release, not just the next one in sequence.

of course the fresh install(er)s are riddled with bugs too.  often i've had
one trouble with the desktop installer (eg an unfounded insistence on
resizing my partition, and i don't want to go there), and another problem
with netboot (eg no sound when done), but finally success via the alternate
installer (especially after learning how to boot the alternate iso via grub
loopback, an apparently little known trick, requiring manual replacement of
/dev/sr0 with a softlink to the iso, but not until the first failure to
find the cdrom).

so i join the chorus that recommends a fresh install.  but i say a couple
highly helpful verses are surprisingly rarely sung.  for one, the alternate
iso grub loopback trick.  and the other, repartition if necessary, the
installers are good at resizing partitions if needed, so you can install
into a fresh partition, without losing your existing install.  because
heck, all too often something about the new install will be a
disappointment, and then you can still run your old install.

and if you do end up running your old install, you'll either want to
reclaim the mbr with grub-install, or have the new grub find and use the
configfile for the old install, else you will end up not seeing updated
kernels.  seems to me to be a big blindspot on the part of grub that it
doesn't do this, ought to be the default behaviour, but it's not even
offered as an option.  sure you can insert it manually into 40_custom,
where it will survive updates.  but you'll still end up editing that new
grub.conf if you want to supercede the default choice.  you may also want
to force the menu timeout, which won't reset itself when the OS it favors
isn't booted.
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From chrome at real-time.com  Wed Feb 26 07:24:06 2014
From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 08:24:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu do-release-upgrade failing
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9DLr1EQyjoJyXcWv1R_0U5=UFW-Q1tcDP1D39Ar4phHAQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231348080.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231544150.7399@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231737360.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402260149230.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <CAD+dB9DLr1EQyjoJyXcWv1R_0U5=UFW-Q1tcDP1D39Ar4phHAQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140226132406.GC32948@real-time.com>

On 02/26 04:50 , gregrwm wrote:
> (especially after learning how to boot the alternate iso via grub
> loopback, an apparently little known trick, requiring manual replacement of
> /dev/sr0 with a softlink to the iso, but not until the first failure to
> find the cdrom).

Would you please elaborate on this? I can imagine some things you might
mean, but please tell us a bit of what you know, it sounds like an
interesting idea.

-- 
Carl Soderstrom
Systems Administrator
Real-Time Enterprises
www.real-time.com

From david.wagle at gmail.com  Wed Feb 26 08:46:57 2014
From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 08:46:57 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu do-release-upgrade failing
In-Reply-To: <20140226132406.GC32948@real-time.com>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231348080.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231544150.7399@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231737360.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402260149230.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <CAD+dB9DLr1EQyjoJyXcWv1R_0U5=UFW-Q1tcDP1D39Ar4phHAQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140226132406.GC32948@real-time.com>
Message-ID: <CAJdTJyNFQkU=MkborGJJ4O344C96ALPRS1s4D9_vJ8YRxRUuZQ@mail.gmail.com>

Reason #6543 why I choose rolling release distributions . . .


On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 7:24 AM, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom <
chrome at real-time.com> wrote:

> On 02/26 04:50 , gregrwm wrote:
> > (especially after learning how to boot the alternate iso via grub
> > loopback, an apparently little known trick, requiring manual replacement
> of
> > /dev/sr0 with a softlink to the iso, but not until the first failure to
> > find the cdrom).
>
> Would you please elaborate on this? I can imagine some things you might
> mean, but please tell us a bit of what you know, it sounds like an
> interesting idea.
>
> --
> Carl Soderstrom
> Systems Administrator
> Real-Time Enterprises
> www.real-time.com
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 26 11:23:55 2014
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 17:23:55 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Downloads cut off
Message-ID: <CABWFOjuDcQkLDGjLV-aegm6bxT=LNMmYeRAqW8C6kGD8TqdxLQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the ideas about wget and uget.  I haven't figured out
what URLs to provide to them though.

I also read that the Opera browser does a better job than Firefox
as far as resuming downloads.  I could use Opera when I'm going
to download a large file.

I tried installing Manjaro, but ran into another problem.  Sorry
I didn't write down what it was  So I was back to Arch for another
install.  This one took about 5 hours.  The thing that threw me
this time was I was trying to use gpt rather than mbr.  I had used
gpt on the machine I installed Arch on last week and that machine
is several years older than the machine I was working on this time.
After about 4 or 5 attempts with gpt, I decided to try mbr.  That
worked like a charm.   The new system has about 90 tasks
processes running.  My previous Fedora install had over 180
tasks running on it.  I have the feeling some of the Arch tasks
aren't really needed either, but I'm happy for now to cut out some
of the junk Fedora runs.

-- 
Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - Was Eisenhower the last decent President?
http://webEbenezer.net
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From stuporglue at gmail.com  Wed Feb 26 11:38:27 2014
From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 11:38:27 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Downloads cut off
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjuDcQkLDGjLV-aegm6bxT=LNMmYeRAqW8C6kGD8TqdxLQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjuDcQkLDGjLV-aegm6bxT=LNMmYeRAqW8C6kGD8TqdxLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFE18KVbdvMEaV0gyyA1uwNmB4kLiZdWryYxJTcUvqLEZGsG_g@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks for the ideas about wget and uget.  I haven't figured out
> what URLs to provide to them though.
>

If you open the download manager for your browser you should see the failed
download. If you right click the failed download you should have an option
to copy the download URL.

Note on wget and the command line: It's good practice to quote the URL so
that special shell characters don't make it misbehave.

eg.

wget "http://example.com/downloads/linux.iso?mirror=minnesota&version=latest
"

--
Michael Moore
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From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Wed Feb 26 17:59:11 2014
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 17:59:11 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu do-release-upgrade failing
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9ARkg66gX706aDtepZJfgP1rVw-kiS=VPy7HJH2qiqRWA@mail.gmail.com>

>
> > (especially after learning how to boot the alternate iso via grub
> > loopback, an apparently little known trick, requiring manual replacement
> of
> > /dev/sr0 with a softlink to the iso, but not until the first failure to
> > find the cdrom).
>
> Would you please elaborate on this? I can imagine some things you might
> mean, but please tell us a bit of what you know, it sounds like an
> interesting idea.
>

menuentry 'lubuntu trusty-alternate-i386.iso, mount iso manually' {
     echo 'lubuntu trusty-alternate-i386.iso, mount iso manually'
            set i=/trusty-alternate-i386.iso
        search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root
0a0b9aac-fdd8-4d69-bc07-f4d66fbb6f28
            loopback loop                           $i
     linux (loop)/install/vmlinuz iso-scan/filename=$i
file=/cdrom/preseed/lubuntu.seed panic=30 --
     echo "(loop)/install/initrd.gz"
    initrd (loop)/install/initrd.gz
#p=a1
#mkdir           /$p
#mount  /dev/sd$p /$p
#mv      /dev/sr0 /dev/sr0-     #do this after it fails to mount the cdrom
#ln -s $i /dev/sr0
}

include a menuentry such as above in your grub.conf, eg via
/etc/grub.d/40_custom.  adjust the set command to the absolute pathname of
your iso within the filesystem that contains it (ie if it's not in your
root filesystem, remove the mountpoint prefix).  replace the search uuid
with the uuid for the filesystem that contains your iso.  if your iso isn't
an lubuntu alternate iso, adjust the preseed to match your iso, maintaining
/cdrom in front of the pathname of the .seed file in the iso.

boot it.  once it fails to find the cdrom, press ctl-alt-F2, press enter,
and enter the commands prefixed by # above.  choose the value for $p to
match the partition that contains your iso.  in place of $i enter the
actual pathname of your iso (starting with $p).  use tab completion to be
sure.  after thus replacing /dev/sr0, press ctl-alt-F1, and iirc just a
couple hits of the enter key will be all you need to get it using the iso
instead of your cdrom.

for completeness i may as well mention that if the desktop iso works for
you, loopback booting a desktop iso requires a boot= entry instead of a
file= entry, and does not require any manual softlink chicanery to fully
boot from the iso:

menuentry                 "lubuntu-l10.04desktop-i386.iso" {
     echo                 "lubuntu-l10.04desktop-i386.iso"
set i=/home/greg/Downloads/lubuntu-10.04-desktop-i386.iso
                        search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root
0c7237fd-45d8-49f4-8666-9159982138ab
   loopback loop                                   $i
     linux (loop)/casper/vmlinuz iso-scan/filename=$i boot=casper panic=30
--
     echo "(loop)/casper/initrd.lz"
    initrd (loop)/casper/initrd.lz
}
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From pj.world at hotmail.com  Wed Feb 26 23:11:56 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 23:11:56 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Installing Adobe Flash on Debian 'Wheezy'
Message-ID: <BAY175-W198813B58876DFB36139ED99830@phx.gbl>

I am having some 'issues' trying to install Adobe flash-player on Debian 'Wheezy' 
running:

Kernel 3.2.0-4-amd64

Gnome 3

Iceweasel 24.3.0

I have successfully installed openjdk- and icedtea-

I have read quite a few forums etc.



Below are the content's of my /etc/apt/sources.list

# 

# deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 7 _Wheezy_ - Official Snapshot amd64 LIVE/INSTALL Binary 20131013-23:23]/ wheezy main

# deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 7 _Wheezy_ - Official Snapshot amd64 LIVE/INSTALL Binary 20131013-23:23]/ wheezy main

# Line commented out by installer because it failed to verify:
# deb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main
# Line commented out by installer because it failed to verify:
deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ wheezy contrib non-free main
deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security wheezy/updates main
# deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security wheezy/updates main
# deb-src http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main
# deb ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free
deb http://lug.mtu.edu/debian wheezy-backports main

I have run the command: sudo apt-get update

then have run the command: sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree      

then receive output:

paul at debian:/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins$ sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
Suggested packages:
  konqueror-nsplugins ttf-mscorefonts-installer ttf-xfree86-nonfree hal
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  flashplugin-nonfree
0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
Need to get 0 B/20.1 kB of archives.
After this operation, 181 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Selecting previously unselected package flashplugin-nonfree.
(Reading database ... 143339 files and directories currently installed.)
Unpacking flashplugin-nonfree (from .../flashplugin-nonfree_1%3a3.2_amd64.deb) ...
Processing triggers for man-db ...
Processing triggers for hicolor-icon-theme ...
Processing triggers for desktop-file-utils ...
Processing triggers for gnome-menus ...
Setting up flashplugin-nonfree (1:3.2) ...
ERROR: gpg failed to import /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree/pubkey.asc
More information might be available at:
  http://wiki.debian.org/FlashPlayer



Here are the contents of /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins

paul at debian:/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins$ ls -lah
total 36K
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4.0K Feb 26 03:53 .
drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4.0K Feb 26 03:30 ..
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  19K Jul 25  2013 libgnome-shell-browser-plugin.so
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   39 Feb 26 02:09 libjavaplugin.so -> /etc/alternatives/mozilla-javaplugin.so
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6.0K Jul 27  2012 librhythmbox-itms-detection-plugin.so
paul at debian:/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins$ 

Thank you for any help.
 		 	   		  
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From stuporglue at gmail.com  Thu Feb 27 00:13:28 2014
From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 00:13:28 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Installing Adobe Flash on Debian 'Wheezy'
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W198813B58876DFB36139ED99830@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W198813B58876DFB36139ED99830@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAFE18KU_G+hv0u=VfxicHC7xHGm+Q+zESe1rb2Z4Xi0kbx_J4w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 11:11 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:

> I am having some 'issues' trying to install Adobe flash-player on Debian
> 'Wheezy'
> running:
>
> Kernel 3.2.0-4-amd64
>
> Gnome 3
>
> Iceweasel 24.3.0
>
> I have successfully installed openjdk- and icedtea-
>
> I have read quite a few forums etc.
>
>
>
> Below are the content's of my /etc/apt/sources.list
>
> #
>
> # deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 7 _Wheezy_ - Official Snapshot amd64
> LIVE/INSTALL Binary 20131013-23:23]/ wheezy main
>
> # deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 7 _Wheezy_ - Official Snapshot amd64
> LIVE/INSTALL Binary 20131013-23:23]/ wheezy main
>
> # Line commented out by installer because it failed to verify:
> # deb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main
> # Line commented out by installer because it failed to verify:
> deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ wheezy contrib non-free main
> deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security wheezy/updates main
> # deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security wheezy/updates main
> # deb-src http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main
> # deb ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free
> deb http://lug.mtu.edu/debian wheezy-backports main
>
> I have run the command: sudo apt-get update
>
> then have run the command: sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree
>
> then receive output:
>
> paul at debian:/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins$ sudo apt-get install
> flashplugin-nonfree
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree
> Reading state information... Done
> Suggested packages:
>   konqueror-nsplugins ttf-mscorefonts-installer ttf-xfree86-nonfree hal
> The following NEW packages will be installed:
>   flashplugin-nonfree
> 0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
> Need to get 0 B/20.1 kB of archives.
> After this operation, 181 kB of additional disk space will be used.
> Selecting previously unselected package flashplugin-nonfree.
> (Reading database ... 143339 files and directories currently installed.)
> Unpacking flashplugin-nonfree (from
> .../flashplugin-nonfree_1%3a3.2_amd64.deb) ...
> Processing triggers for man-db ...
> Processing triggers for hicolor-icon-theme ...
> Processing triggers for desktop-file-utils ...
> Processing triggers for gnome-menus ...
> Setting up flashplugin-nonfree (1:3.2) ...
> ERROR: gpg failed to import /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree/pubkey.asc
> More information might be available at:
>   http://wiki.debian.org/FlashPlayer
>
>
>
> Here are the contents of /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins
>
> paul at debian:/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins$ ls -lah
> total 36K
> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4.0K Feb 26 03:53 .
> drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4.0K Feb 26 03:30 ..
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  19K Jul 25  2013 libgnome-shell-browser-plugin.so
> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   39 Feb 26 02:09 libjavaplugin.so ->
> /etc/alternatives/mozilla-javaplugin.so
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6.0K Jul 27  2012
> librhythmbox-itms-detection-plugin.so
> paul at debian:/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins$
>
> Thank you for any help.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

Does it work in the Chromium browser?

I haven't been able to get Flash working in Firefox on Debian (64 bit) for
some time. It does work in Chromium though. I haven't spent much time on it
though since I don't use Flash all that much.

--
Michael Moore
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From sethmiller.sm at gmail.com  Thu Feb 27 00:34:58 2014
From: sethmiller.sm at gmail.com (Seth Miller)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 00:34:58 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] zfs time machine video
In-Reply-To: <53027668.6090403@gmail.com>
References: <52F93709.8070208@kateley.com>
	<53027668.6090403@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEueRAW5=b6XBjB6dUFcP_FdoA63Vd+ZZCbLsxu8_gbTad6cnA@mail.gmail.com>

Nice job Kateley.

Keep in mind that ZFS is no longer open source since Oracle locked it down.

Seth



On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 2:51 PM, B-o-B De Mars <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com>wrote:

> On 2/10/2014 2:31 PM, Linda Kateley wrote::
>
>  So I am starting to create some small videos. I just posted one that is
>> 10 minutes to Time Machine. If anyone has a second(or 10 minutes), maybe
>> take a peak? Give me only positive feedback :) my ego is way too fragile
>> for negative (again Smiley face).
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2pyYeANGKc
>>
>> The content is probably way to simple for this crowd, but i thought i
>> would throw it out here..
>>
>
> Very Nice video Linda!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From david.wagle at gmail.com  Thu Feb 27 07:18:15 2014
From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 07:18:15 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Installing Adobe Flash on Debian 'Wheezy'
In-Reply-To: <CAFE18KU_G+hv0u=VfxicHC7xHGm+Q+zESe1rb2Z4Xi0kbx_J4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY175-W198813B58876DFB36139ED99830@phx.gbl>
 <CAFE18KU_G+hv0u=VfxicHC7xHGm+Q+zESe1rb2Z4Xi0kbx_J4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJdTJyNR5GXR_6K90j32cgeOnHKBj6tQyJawgisn-2LgtRya-Q@mail.gmail.com>

adobe has stopped supporting flash on Linux. Even if you can find a working
older plugin, it won't  have the ability to handle DRM stuff like Netflix.

The  current "best" solution is to install pipelight -- which sets up a
modified wine instance that allows Linux browsers to use native windows
versions of plugins.  It is far from perfect, but it will get you a fully
functional flash environment -- albeit a slightly buggy one.


On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 12:13 AM, Michael Moore <stuporglue at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 11:11 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I am having some 'issues' trying to install Adobe flash-player on Debian
>> 'Wheezy'
>> running:
>>
>> Kernel 3.2.0-4-amd64
>>
>> Gnome 3
>>
>> Iceweasel 24.3.0
>>
>> I have successfully installed openjdk- and icedtea-
>>
>> I have read quite a few forums etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> Below are the content's of my /etc/apt/sources.list
>>
>> #
>>
>> # deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 7 _Wheezy_ - Official Snapshot amd64
>> LIVE/INSTALL Binary 20131013-23:23]/ wheezy main
>>
>> # deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 7 _Wheezy_ - Official Snapshot amd64
>> LIVE/INSTALL Binary 20131013-23:23]/ wheezy main
>>
>> # Line commented out by installer because it failed to verify:
>> # deb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main
>> # Line commented out by installer because it failed to verify:
>> deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ wheezy contrib non-free main
>> deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security wheezy/updates main
>> # deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security wheezy/updates main
>> # deb-src http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main
>> # deb ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free
>> deb http://lug.mtu.edu/debian wheezy-backports main
>>
>> I have run the command: sudo apt-get update
>>
>> then have run the command: sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree
>>
>> then receive output:
>>
>> paul at debian:/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins$ sudo apt-get install
>> flashplugin-nonfree
>> Reading package lists... Done
>> Building dependency tree
>> Reading state information... Done
>> Suggested packages:
>>   konqueror-nsplugins ttf-mscorefonts-installer ttf-xfree86-nonfree hal
>> The following NEW packages will be installed:
>>   flashplugin-nonfree
>> 0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
>> Need to get 0 B/20.1 kB of archives.
>> After this operation, 181 kB of additional disk space will be used.
>> Selecting previously unselected package flashplugin-nonfree.
>> (Reading database ... 143339 files and directories currently installed.)
>> Unpacking flashplugin-nonfree (from
>> .../flashplugin-nonfree_1%3a3.2_amd64.deb) ...
>> Processing triggers for man-db ...
>> Processing triggers for hicolor-icon-theme ...
>> Processing triggers for desktop-file-utils ...
>> Processing triggers for gnome-menus ...
>> Setting up flashplugin-nonfree (1:3.2) ...
>> ERROR: gpg failed to import /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree/pubkey.asc
>> More information might be available at:
>>   http://wiki.debian.org/FlashPlayer
>>
>>
>>
>> Here are the contents of /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins
>>
>> paul at debian:/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins$ ls -lah
>> total 36K
>> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4.0K Feb 26 03:53 .
>> drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4.0K Feb 26 03:30 ..
>> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  19K Jul 25  2013 libgnome-shell-browser-plugin.so
>> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   39 Feb 26 02:09 libjavaplugin.so ->
>> /etc/alternatives/mozilla-javaplugin.so
>> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6.0K Jul 27  2012
>> librhythmbox-itms-detection-plugin.so
>> paul at debian:/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins$
>>
>> Thank you for any help.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
> Does it work in the Chromium browser?
>
> I haven't been able to get Flash working in Firefox on Debian (64 bit) for
> some time. It does work in Chromium though. I haven't spent much time on it
> though since I don't use Flash all that much.
>
> --
> Michael Moore
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From tlunde at gmail.com  Thu Feb 27 07:31:23 2014
From: tlunde at gmail.com (T L)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 07:31:23 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] zfs time machine video
In-Reply-To: <CAEueRAW5=b6XBjB6dUFcP_FdoA63Vd+ZZCbLsxu8_gbTad6cnA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52F93709.8070208@kateley.com> <53027668.6090403@gmail.com>
 <CAEueRAW5=b6XBjB6dUFcP_FdoA63Vd+ZZCbLsxu8_gbTad6cnA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAE0VmCxspK06X6nJeGtijYirRXWvdr_3mEWgsgjv2KXi88SSdQ@mail.gmail.com>

Seth -

You are mistaken. See OpenZFS.

They may be able to develop a proprietary fork, but you can't put the genie
back in a bottle.

Thomas
On Feb 27, 2014 12:35 AM, "Seth Miller" <sethmiller.sm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Nice job Kateley.
>
> Keep in mind that ZFS is no longer open source since Oracle locked it down.
>
> Seth
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 2:51 PM, B-o-B De Mars <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> On 2/10/2014 2:31 PM, Linda Kateley wrote::
>>
>>  So I am starting to create some small videos. I just posted one that is
>>> 10 minutes to Time Machine. If anyone has a second(or 10 minutes), maybe
>>> take a peak? Give me only positive feedback :) my ego is way too fragile
>>> for negative (again Smiley face).
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2pyYeANGKc
>>>
>>> The content is probably way to simple for this crowd, but i thought i
>>> would throw it out here..
>>>
>>
>> Very Nice video Linda!
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From stuporglue at gmail.com  Thu Feb 27 08:05:49 2014
From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 08:05:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Installing Adobe Flash on Debian 'Wheezy'
In-Reply-To: <CAJdTJyNR5GXR_6K90j32cgeOnHKBj6tQyJawgisn-2LgtRya-Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY175-W198813B58876DFB36139ED99830@phx.gbl>
 <CAFE18KU_G+hv0u=VfxicHC7xHGm+Q+zESe1rb2Z4Xi0kbx_J4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJdTJyNR5GXR_6K90j32cgeOnHKBj6tQyJawgisn-2LgtRya-Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFE18KWCZ61NHatSYrByi2ReeatXqKO0zNg4WVPuE3U+jVd8SA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 7:18 AM, David Wagle <david.wagle at gmail.com> wrote:

> adobe has stopped supporting flash on Linux. Even if you can find a
> working older plugin, it won't  have the ability to handle DRM stuff like
> Netflix.
>

I don't have Netflix, but the old plugin version is still works for Hulu,
Amazon Prime and YouTube.

The  current "best" solution is to install pipelight -- which sets up a
> modified wine instance that allows Linux browsers to use native windows
> versions of plugins.  It is far from perfect, but it will get you a fully
> functional flash environment -- albeit a slightly buggy one.
>

Bleh. Reminds me of the bad old days of using NDISWrapper for Wifi. I can't
remember the last time I even saw someone asking about NDISWrapper -- I'm
glad that's behind us finally. Hopefully some day this pipelight hack will
be equally unnecessary.

--
Michael Moore



>
>
> On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 12:13 AM, Michael Moore <stuporglue at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 11:11 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I am having some 'issues' trying to install Adobe flash-player on Debian
>>> 'Wheezy'
>>> running:
>>>
>>> Kernel 3.2.0-4-amd64
>>>
>>> Gnome 3
>>>
>>> Iceweasel 24.3.0
>>>
>>> I have successfully installed openjdk- and icedtea-
>>>
>>> I have read quite a few forums etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Below are the content's of my /etc/apt/sources.list
>>>
>>> #
>>>
>>> # deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 7 _Wheezy_ - Official Snapshot amd64
>>> LIVE/INSTALL Binary 20131013-23:23]/ wheezy main
>>>
>>> # deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 7 _Wheezy_ - Official Snapshot amd64
>>> LIVE/INSTALL Binary 20131013-23:23]/ wheezy main
>>>
>>> # Line commented out by installer because it failed to verify:
>>> # deb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main
>>> # Line commented out by installer because it failed to verify:
>>> deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ wheezy contrib non-free main
>>> deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security wheezy/updates main
>>> # deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security wheezy/updates main
>>> # deb-src http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main
>>> # deb ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free
>>> deb http://lug.mtu.edu/debian wheezy-backports main
>>>
>>> I have run the command: sudo apt-get update
>>>
>>> then have run the command: sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree
>>>
>>> then receive output:
>>>
>>> paul at debian:/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins$ sudo apt-get install
>>> flashplugin-nonfree
>>> Reading package lists... Done
>>> Building dependency tree
>>> Reading state information... Done
>>> Suggested packages:
>>>   konqueror-nsplugins ttf-mscorefonts-installer ttf-xfree86-nonfree hal
>>> The following NEW packages will be installed:
>>>   flashplugin-nonfree
>>> 0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
>>> Need to get 0 B/20.1 kB of archives.
>>> After this operation, 181 kB of additional disk space will be used.
>>> Selecting previously unselected package flashplugin-nonfree.
>>> (Reading database ... 143339 files and directories currently installed.)
>>> Unpacking flashplugin-nonfree (from
>>> .../flashplugin-nonfree_1%3a3.2_amd64.deb) ...
>>> Processing triggers for man-db ...
>>> Processing triggers for hicolor-icon-theme ...
>>> Processing triggers for desktop-file-utils ...
>>> Processing triggers for gnome-menus ...
>>> Setting up flashplugin-nonfree (1:3.2) ...
>>> ERROR: gpg failed to import /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree/pubkey.asc
>>> More information might be available at:
>>>   http://wiki.debian.org/FlashPlayer
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Here are the contents of /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins
>>>
>>> paul at debian:/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins$ ls -lah
>>> total 36K
>>> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4.0K Feb 26 03:53 .
>>> drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4.0K Feb 26 03:30 ..
>>> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  19K Jul 25  2013 libgnome-shell-browser-plugin.so
>>> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   39 Feb 26 02:09 libjavaplugin.so ->
>>> /etc/alternatives/mozilla-javaplugin.so
>>> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6.0K Jul 27  2012
>>> librhythmbox-itms-detection-plugin.so
>>> paul at debian:/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins$
>>>
>>> Thank you for any help.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>
>> Does it work in the Chromium browser?
>>
>> I haven't been able to get Flash working in Firefox on Debian (64 bit)
>> for some time. It does work in Chromium though. I haven't spent much time
>> on it though since I don't use Flash all that much.
>>
>> --
>> Michael Moore
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From lkateley at kateley.com  Thu Feb 27 08:07:44 2014
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 08:07:44 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] zfs time machine video
In-Reply-To: <CAEueRAW5=b6XBjB6dUFcP_FdoA63Vd+ZZCbLsxu8_gbTad6cnA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52F93709.8070208@kateley.com>	<53027668.6090403@gmail.com>
 <CAEueRAW5=b6XBjB6dUFcP_FdoA63Vd+ZZCbLsxu8_gbTad6cnA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <530F46B0.7010801@kateley.com>

I think there is still 2 trees of code. The open source and the oracle 
branch. openzfs.org is still a pretty vital community.

lk


On 2/27/14, 12:34 AM, Seth Miller wrote:
> Nice job Kateley.
>
> Keep in mind that ZFS is no longer open source since Oracle locked it 
> down.
>
> Seth
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 2:51 PM, B-o-B De Mars <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com 
> <mailto:mr.chew.baka at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     On 2/10/2014 2:31 PM, Linda Kateley wrote::
>
>         So I am starting to create some small videos. I just posted
>         one that is
>         10 minutes to Time Machine. If anyone has a second(or 10
>         minutes), maybe
>         take a peak? Give me only positive feedback :) my ego is way
>         too fragile
>         for negative (again Smiley face).
>
>         http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2pyYeANGKc
>
>         The content is probably way to simple for this crowd, but i
>         thought i
>         would throw it out here..
>
>
>     Very Nice video Linda!
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From sethmiller.sm at gmail.com  Thu Feb 27 09:46:00 2014
From: sethmiller.sm at gmail.com (Seth Miller)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 09:46:00 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] zfs time machine video
In-Reply-To: <CAE0VmCxspK06X6nJeGtijYirRXWvdr_3mEWgsgjv2KXi88SSdQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52F93709.8070208@kateley.com> <53027668.6090403@gmail.com>
 <CAEueRAW5=b6XBjB6dUFcP_FdoA63Vd+ZZCbLsxu8_gbTad6cnA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE0VmCxspK06X6nJeGtijYirRXWvdr_3mEWgsgjv2KXi88SSdQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEueRAUYkT+93+dPN-N-dX6FE1Tojz=8tJTvBZv+1qJ2RtvpJQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thomas,

You are correct. OpenZFS is open source among ports. ZFS is not.

It may be just a matter of semantics. When Oracle acquired Sun, it locked
down Solaris and everything that belongs to it, including ZFS. OpenZFS was
developed as part of OpenSolaris which is now discontinued.

What I should have said is Solaris ZFS is no longer open source which is
irrelevant in this case so I stand corrected.

Seth


On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 7:31 AM, T L <tlunde at gmail.com> wrote:

> Seth -
>
> You are mistaken. See OpenZFS.
>
> They may be able to develop a proprietary fork, but you can't put the
> genie back in a bottle.
>
> Thomas
> On Feb 27, 2014 12:35 AM, "Seth Miller" <sethmiller.sm at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Nice job Kateley.
>>
>> Keep in mind that ZFS is no longer open source since Oracle locked it
>> down.
>>
>> Seth
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 2:51 PM, B-o-B De Mars <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/10/2014 2:31 PM, Linda Kateley wrote::
>>>
>>>  So I am starting to create some small videos. I just posted one that is
>>>> 10 minutes to Time Machine. If anyone has a second(or 10 minutes), maybe
>>>> take a peak? Give me only positive feedback :) my ego is way too fragile
>>>> for negative (again Smiley face).
>>>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2pyYeANGKc
>>>>
>>>> The content is probably way to simple for this crowd, but i thought i
>>>> would throw it out here..
>>>>
>>>
>>> Very Nice video Linda!
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From chrome at real-time.com  Thu Feb 27 12:45:54 2014
From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 13:45:54 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] desktop Linux RAID card recommendation
Message-ID: <20140227184554.GJ32948@real-time.com>

I find myself clueless about the state of hardware again.

It used to be that I recommended 3ware RAID controllers because:

1. they had good Linux drivers built into the kernel
2. they were reliable
3. they had a really good management tool suite under Linux

However, it looks like 3ware has abandoned the low-end RAID market and the
cheapest controller of theirs which I find on Newegg is ~$440. Gone are the
days of $120 2-port controllers for desktop use.

Does anyone have a recommendation for a hardware RAID controller to mirror
drives for a desktop Linux box?

I really don't want to go back to the days of software RAID. 

-- 
Carl Soderstrom
Systems Administrator
Real-Time Enterprises
www.real-time.com

From tlunde at gmail.com  Thu Feb 27 12:48:57 2014
From: tlunde at gmail.com (T L)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 12:48:57 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] zfs time machine video
In-Reply-To: <CAEueRAUYkT+93+dPN-N-dX6FE1Tojz=8tJTvBZv+1qJ2RtvpJQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52F93709.8070208@kateley.com> <53027668.6090403@gmail.com>
 <CAEueRAW5=b6XBjB6dUFcP_FdoA63Vd+ZZCbLsxu8_gbTad6cnA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE0VmCxspK06X6nJeGtijYirRXWvdr_3mEWgsgjv2KXi88SSdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEueRAUYkT+93+dPN-N-dX6FE1Tojz=8tJTvBZv+1qJ2RtvpJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAE0VmCyXYTKoHTre+JVTExfGchS86uhGSO9v+H8ziLi2yJ4Qfw@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry that I was so terse this morning.

OpenZFS, per se, is newer than the Oracle acquisition of Sun.

There are many ZFS trees, these days. (And, in this era of distributed
source control, that's not a big deal anyway. )

Each of FreeBSD, ZFS on Linux, et al, have their own trees. OpenZFS isn't
code -- its an umbrella organization to promote common development across
the open source implementations of ZFS.

There have been two recent Ars Technica articles on ZFS and btrfs that are
well worth reading if you're interested in this space. (Even the comments
are valuable, believe it or not!)

Thomas
 On Feb 27, 2014 9:46 AM, "Seth Miller" <sethmiller.sm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thomas,
>
> You are correct. OpenZFS is open source among ports. ZFS is not.
>
> It may be just a matter of semantics. When Oracle acquired Sun, it locked
> down Solaris and everything that belongs to it, including ZFS. OpenZFS was
> developed as part of OpenSolaris which is now discontinued.
>
> What I should have said is Solaris ZFS is no longer open source which is
> irrelevant in this case so I stand corrected.
>
> Seth
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 7:31 AM, T L <tlunde at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Seth -
>>
>> You are mistaken. See OpenZFS.
>>
>> They may be able to develop a proprietary fork, but you can't put the
>> genie back in a bottle.
>>
>> Thomas
>> On Feb 27, 2014 12:35 AM, "Seth Miller" <sethmiller.sm at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Nice job Kateley.
>>>
>>> Keep in mind that ZFS is no longer open source since Oracle locked it
>>> down.
>>>
>>> Seth
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 2:51 PM, B-o-B De Mars <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/10/2014 2:31 PM, Linda Kateley wrote::
>>>>
>>>>  So I am starting to create some small videos. I just posted one that is
>>>>> 10 minutes to Time Machine. If anyone has a second(or 10 minutes),
>>>>> maybe
>>>>> take a peak? Give me only positive feedback :) my ego is way too
>>>>> fragile
>>>>> for negative (again Smiley face).
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2pyYeANGKc
>>>>>
>>>>> The content is probably way to simple for this crowd, but i thought i
>>>>> would throw it out here..
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Very Nice video Linda!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From tlunde at gmail.com  Thu Feb 27 12:51:11 2014
From: tlunde at gmail.com (T L)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 12:51:11 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] desktop Linux RAID card recommendation
In-Reply-To: <20140227184554.GJ32948@real-time.com>
References: <20140227184554.GJ32948@real-time.com>
Message-ID: <CAE0VmCxazrGM4bn-z6SGy7+6biCmojE6fGfg+LA_Y_rFGVEpmw@mail.gmail.com>

Why not software raid?  It is very unlikely that your system is CPU-bound.
Plus, the ability to move the drives to new hardware is much easier than if
they're tied to a specific proprietary RAID card's implementation.

Thomas
On Feb 27, 2014 12:46 PM, "Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom" <chrome at real-time.com>
wrote:

> I find myself clueless about the state of hardware again.
>
> It used to be that I recommended 3ware RAID controllers because:
>
> 1. they had good Linux drivers built into the kernel
> 2. they were reliable
> 3. they had a really good management tool suite under Linux
>
> However, it looks like 3ware has abandoned the low-end RAID market and the
> cheapest controller of theirs which I find on Newegg is ~$440. Gone are the
> days of $120 2-port controllers for desktop use.
>
> Does anyone have a recommendation for a hardware RAID controller to mirror
> drives for a desktop Linux box?
>
> I really don't want to go back to the days of software RAID.
>
> --
> Carl Soderstrom
> Systems Administrator
> Real-Time Enterprises
> www.real-time.com
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From john.a.frisk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 27 12:51:29 2014
From: john.a.frisk at gmail.com (John Frisk)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 12:51:29 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] desktop Linux RAID card recommendation
In-Reply-To: <20140227184554.GJ32948@real-time.com>
References: <20140227184554.GJ32948@real-time.com>
Message-ID: <CAAvSaRphjn9FJF_kGmnWj_EoBy1TcqOiHeuuwJcr+k9Zh8ZAfw@mail.gmail.com>

Try the LSI hardware RAID cards. Yes they are expensive but that is
hardware RAID. I personally use the 9266-8i series cards for my servers.
With 6 disk SATA-III RAID 10 ( 1+0 ) I can get about 350 MB/s throughput.
Zoom. :)
On Feb 27, 2014 12:46 PM, "Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom" <chrome at real-time.com>
wrote:

> I find myself clueless about the state of hardware again.
>
> It used to be that I recommended 3ware RAID controllers because:
>
> 1. they had good Linux drivers built into the kernel
> 2. they were reliable
> 3. they had a really good management tool suite under Linux
>
> However, it looks like 3ware has abandoned the low-end RAID market and the
> cheapest controller of theirs which I find on Newegg is ~$440. Gone are the
> days of $120 2-port controllers for desktop use.
>
> Does anyone have a recommendation for a hardware RAID controller to mirror
> drives for a desktop Linux box?
>
> I really don't want to go back to the days of software RAID.
>
> --
> Carl Soderstrom
> Systems Administrator
> Real-Time Enterprises
> www.real-time.com
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From lkateley at kateley.com  Thu Feb 27 13:05:46 2014
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 13:05:46 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] zfs time machine video
In-Reply-To: <CAE0VmCyXYTKoHTre+JVTExfGchS86uhGSO9v+H8ziLi2yJ4Qfw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52F93709.8070208@kateley.com> <53027668.6090403@gmail.com>
 <CAEueRAW5=b6XBjB6dUFcP_FdoA63Vd+ZZCbLsxu8_gbTad6cnA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE0VmCxspK06X6nJeGtijYirRXWvdr_3mEWgsgjv2KXi88SSdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEueRAUYkT+93+dPN-N-dX6FE1Tojz=8tJTvBZv+1qJ2RtvpJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE0VmCyXYTKoHTre+JVTExfGchS86uhGSO9v+H8ziLi2yJ4Qfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <530F8C8A.5070402@kateley.com>

I really hate to plug my business on a list, but this is what i do. I 
teach classes on zfs. If anyone is interested I thought I would put it 
out there...

kateleyco.com

Most of the work I do is for a bunch of smallish zfs startups. I am 
actually creating freenas content right now.

The reason I was hesitant on saying something definitive is I hadn't 
checked the news yet today. There can always be news. In april of last 
year Oracle reapplied for trademark on the word zfs. I have been waiting 
for them to do something with that :)

linda


On 2/27/14, 12:48 PM, T L wrote:
>
> Sorry that I was so terse this morning.
>
> OpenZFS, per se, is newer than the Oracle acquisition of Sun.
>
> There are many ZFS trees, these days. (And, in this era of distributed 
> source control, that's not a big deal anyway. )
>
> Each of FreeBSD, ZFS on Linux, et al, have their own trees. OpenZFS 
> isn't code -- its an umbrella organization to promote common 
> development across the open source implementations of ZFS.
>
> There have been two recent Ars Technica articles on ZFS and btrfs that 
> are well worth reading if you're interested in this space. (Even the 
> comments are valuable, believe it or not!)
>
> Thomas
>
> On Feb 27, 2014 9:46 AM, "Seth Miller" <sethmiller.sm at gmail.com 
> <mailto:sethmiller.sm at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Thomas,
>
>     You are correct. OpenZFS is open source among ports. ZFS is not.
>
>     It may be just a matter of semantics. When Oracle acquired Sun, it
>     locked down Solaris and everything that belongs to it, including
>     ZFS. OpenZFS was developed as part of OpenSolaris which is now
>     discontinued.
>
>     What I should have said is Solaris ZFS is no longer open source
>     which is irrelevant in this case so I stand corrected.
>
>     Seth
>
>
>     On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 7:31 AM, T L <tlunde at gmail.com
>     <mailto:tlunde at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         Seth -
>
>         You are mistaken. See OpenZFS.
>
>         They may be able to develop a proprietary fork, but you can't
>         put the genie back in a bottle.
>
>         Thomas
>
>         On Feb 27, 2014 12:35 AM, "Seth Miller"
>         <sethmiller.sm at gmail.com <mailto:sethmiller.sm at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>             Nice job Kateley.
>
>             Keep in mind that ZFS is no longer open source since
>             Oracle locked it down.
>
>             Seth
>
>
>
>             On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 2:51 PM, B-o-B De Mars
>             <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com <mailto:mr.chew.baka at gmail.com>>
>             wrote:
>
>                 On 2/10/2014 2:31 PM, Linda Kateley wrote::
>
>                     So I am starting to create some small videos. I
>                     just posted one that is
>                     10 minutes to Time Machine. If anyone has a
>                     second(or 10 minutes), maybe
>                     take a peak? Give me only positive feedback :) my
>                     ego is way too fragile
>                     for negative (again Smiley face).
>
>                     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2pyYeANGKc
>
>                     The content is probably way to simple for this
>                     crowd, but i thought i
>                     would throw it out here..
>
>
>                 Very Nice video Linda!
>
>
>                 _______________________________________________
>                 TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>                 tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>                 http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
>             _______________________________________________
>             TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>             tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>             http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From tlunde at gmail.com  Thu Feb 27 13:16:25 2014
From: tlunde at gmail.com (T L)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 13:16:25 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] zfs time machine video
In-Reply-To: <530F8C8A.5070402@kateley.com>
References: <52F93709.8070208@kateley.com> <53027668.6090403@gmail.com>
 <CAEueRAW5=b6XBjB6dUFcP_FdoA63Vd+ZZCbLsxu8_gbTad6cnA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE0VmCxspK06X6nJeGtijYirRXWvdr_3mEWgsgjv2KXi88SSdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEueRAUYkT+93+dPN-N-dX6FE1Tojz=8tJTvBZv+1qJ2RtvpJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE0VmCyXYTKoHTre+JVTExfGchS86uhGSO9v+H8ziLi2yJ4Qfw@mail.gmail.com>
 <530F8C8A.5070402@kateley.com>
Message-ID: <CAE0VmCyj7UYE7NTBV79sBZuRH1rvX2o4+3OE__Xm1am39H-ZDg@mail.gmail.com>

Re: trademark on ZFS

Just as OpenOffice and "Office" (TM owned by Microsoft) can coexist (from a
trademark law perspective, at least) it is likely that ZFS and OpenZFS can.

Thomas
 On Feb 27, 2014 1:06 PM, "Linda Kateley" <lkateley at kateley.com> wrote:

>  I really hate to plug my business on a list, but this is what i do. I
> teach classes on zfs. If anyone is interested I thought I would put it out
> there...
>
> kateleyco.com
>
> Most of the work I do is for a bunch of smallish zfs startups. I am
> actually creating freenas content right now.
>
> The reason I was hesitant on saying something definitive is I hadn't
> checked the news yet today. There can always be news. In april of last year
> Oracle reapplied for trademark on the word zfs. I have been waiting for
> them to do something with that :)
>
> linda
>
>
> On 2/27/14, 12:48 PM, T L wrote:
>
> Sorry that I was so terse this morning.
>
> OpenZFS, per se, is newer than the Oracle acquisition of Sun.
>
> There are many ZFS trees, these days. (And, in this era of distributed
> source control, that's not a big deal anyway. )
>
> Each of FreeBSD, ZFS on Linux, et al, have their own trees. OpenZFS isn't
> code -- its an umbrella organization to promote common development across
> the open source implementations of ZFS.
>
> There have been two recent Ars Technica articles on ZFS and btrfs that are
> well worth reading if you're interested in this space. (Even the comments
> are valuable, believe it or not!)
>
> Thomas
>  On Feb 27, 2014 9:46 AM, "Seth Miller" <sethmiller.sm at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>   Thomas,
>>
>>  You are correct. OpenZFS is open source among ports. ZFS is not.
>>
>>  It may be just a matter of semantics. When Oracle acquired Sun, it
>> locked down Solaris and everything that belongs to it, including ZFS.
>> OpenZFS was developed as part of OpenSolaris which is now discontinued.
>>
>>  What I should have said is Solaris ZFS is no longer open source which is
>> irrelevant in this case so I stand corrected.
>>
>>  Seth
>>
>>
>>  On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 7:31 AM, T L <tlunde at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Seth -
>>>
>>> You are mistaken. See OpenZFS.
>>>
>>> They may be able to develop a proprietary fork, but you can't put the
>>> genie back in a bottle.
>>>
>>> Thomas
>>> On Feb 27, 2014 12:35 AM, "Seth Miller" <sethmiller.sm at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nice job Kateley.
>>>>
>>>>  Keep in mind that ZFS is no longer open source since Oracle locked it
>>>> down.
>>>>
>>>>  Seth
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 2:51 PM, B-o-B De Mars <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/10/2014 2:31 PM, Linda Kateley wrote::
>>>>>
>>>>>  So I am starting to create some small videos. I just posted one that
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> 10 minutes to Time Machine. If anyone has a second(or 10 minutes),
>>>>>> maybe
>>>>>> take a peak? Give me only positive feedback :) my ego is way too
>>>>>> fragile
>>>>>> for negative (again Smiley face).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2pyYeANGKc
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The content is probably way to simple for this crowd, but i thought i
>>>>>> would throw it out here..
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Very Nice video Linda!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From lkateley at kateley.com  Thu Feb 27 13:26:47 2014
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 13:26:47 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] zfs time machine video
In-Reply-To: <CAE0VmCyj7UYE7NTBV79sBZuRH1rvX2o4+3OE__Xm1am39H-ZDg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52F93709.8070208@kateley.com> <53027668.6090403@gmail.com>
 <CAEueRAW5=b6XBjB6dUFcP_FdoA63Vd+ZZCbLsxu8_gbTad6cnA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE0VmCxspK06X6nJeGtijYirRXWvdr_3mEWgsgjv2KXi88SSdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEueRAUYkT+93+dPN-N-dX6FE1Tojz=8tJTvBZv+1qJ2RtvpJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE0VmCyXYTKoHTre+JVTExfGchS86uhGSO9v+H8ziLi2yJ4Qfw@mail.gmail.com>
 <530F8C8A.5070402@kateley.com>
 <CAE0VmCyj7UYE7NTBV79sBZuRH1rvX2o4+3OE__Xm1am39H-ZDg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <530F9177.4090903@kateley.com>

I think that was part of the reason why they did it :)

linda


On 2/27/14, 1:16 PM, T L wrote:
>
> Re: trademark on ZFS
>
> Just as OpenOffice and "Office" (TM owned by Microsoft) can coexist 
> (from a trademark law perspective, at least) it is likely that ZFS and 
> OpenZFS can.
>
> Thomas
>
> On Feb 27, 2014 1:06 PM, "Linda Kateley" <lkateley at kateley.com 
> <mailto:lkateley at kateley.com>> wrote:
>
>     I really hate to plug my business on a list, but this is what i
>     do. I teach classes on zfs. If anyone is interested I thought I
>     would put it out there...
>
>     kateleyco.com <http://kateleyco.com>
>
>     Most of the work I do is for a bunch of smallish zfs startups. I
>     am actually creating freenas content right now.
>
>     The reason I was hesitant on saying something definitive is I
>     hadn't checked the news yet today. There can always be news. In
>     april of last year Oracle reapplied for trademark on the word zfs.
>     I have been waiting for them to do something with that :)
>
>     linda
>
>
>     On 2/27/14, 12:48 PM, T L wrote:
>>
>>     Sorry that I was so terse this morning.
>>
>>     OpenZFS, per se, is newer than the Oracle acquisition of Sun.
>>
>>     There are many ZFS trees, these days. (And, in this era of
>>     distributed source control, that's not a big deal anyway. )
>>
>>     Each of FreeBSD, ZFS on Linux, et al, have their own trees.
>>     OpenZFS isn't code -- its an umbrella organization to promote
>>     common development across the open source implementations of ZFS.
>>
>>     There have been two recent Ars Technica articles on ZFS and btrfs
>>     that are well worth reading if you're interested in this space.
>>     (Even the comments are valuable, believe it or not!)
>>
>>     Thomas
>>
>>     On Feb 27, 2014 9:46 AM, "Seth Miller" <sethmiller.sm at gmail.com
>>     <mailto:sethmiller.sm at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         Thomas,
>>
>>         You are correct. OpenZFS is open source among ports. ZFS is not.
>>
>>         It may be just a matter of semantics. When Oracle acquired
>>         Sun, it locked down Solaris and everything that belongs to
>>         it, including ZFS. OpenZFS was developed as part of
>>         OpenSolaris which is now discontinued.
>>
>>         What I should have said is Solaris ZFS is no longer open
>>         source which is irrelevant in this case so I stand corrected.
>>
>>         Seth
>>
>>
>>         On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 7:31 AM, T L <tlunde at gmail.com
>>         <mailto:tlunde at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>             Seth -
>>
>>             You are mistaken. See OpenZFS.
>>
>>             They may be able to develop a proprietary fork, but you
>>             can't put the genie back in a bottle.
>>
>>             Thomas
>>
>>             On Feb 27, 2014 12:35 AM, "Seth Miller"
>>             <sethmiller.sm at gmail.com
>>             <mailto:sethmiller.sm at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>                 Nice job Kateley.
>>
>>                 Keep in mind that ZFS is no longer open source since
>>                 Oracle locked it down.
>>
>>                 Seth
>>
>>
>>
>>                 On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 2:51 PM, B-o-B De Mars
>>                 <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com
>>                 <mailto:mr.chew.baka at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>                     On 2/10/2014 2:31 PM, Linda Kateley wrote::
>>
>>                         So I am starting to create some small videos.
>>                         I just posted one that is
>>                         10 minutes to Time Machine. If anyone has a
>>                         second(or 10 minutes), maybe
>>                         take a peak? Give me only positive feedback
>>                         :) my ego is way too fragile
>>                         for negative (again Smiley face).
>>
>>                         http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2pyYeANGKc
>>
>>                         The content is probably way to simple for
>>                         this crowd, but i thought i
>>                         would throw it out here..
>>
>>
>>                     Very Nice video Linda!
>>
>>
>>                     _______________________________________________
>>                     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>                     tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>                     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>                     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>>
>>                 _______________________________________________
>>                 TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>                 tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>                 http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>>             _______________________________________________
>>             TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>             tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>             http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org  <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From john.a.frisk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 27 13:27:16 2014
From: john.a.frisk at gmail.com (John Frisk)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 13:27:16 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] desktop Linux RAID card recommendation
In-Reply-To: <CAE0VmCxazrGM4bn-z6SGy7+6biCmojE6fGfg+LA_Y_rFGVEpmw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20140227184554.GJ32948@real-time.com>
 <CAE0VmCxazrGM4bn-z6SGy7+6biCmojE6fGfg+LA_Y_rFGVEpmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAvSaRoM+G0GAUk7PeaZrHuqFAvyZk+bh2_HWH5kXDJp9qEvig@mail.gmail.com>

I can't answer for Carl's reasons but mine were all about small file access
and writethru. When you patch Linux VMs with software raid, the delete and
replace of file inodes is very slow on software raid in comparison to
hardware raid with battery backup. I was actually planning on demonstrating
this at Penguins Unbound later this year.
On Feb 27, 2014 12:51 PM, "T L" <tlunde at gmail.com> wrote:

> Why not software raid?  It is very unlikely that your system is CPU-bound.
> Plus, the ability to move the drives to new hardware is much easier than if
> they're tied to a specific proprietary RAID card's implementation.
>
> Thomas
> On Feb 27, 2014 12:46 PM, "Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom" <chrome at real-time.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I find myself clueless about the state of hardware again.
>>
>> It used to be that I recommended 3ware RAID controllers because:
>>
>> 1. they had good Linux drivers built into the kernel
>> 2. they were reliable
>> 3. they had a really good management tool suite under Linux
>>
>> However, it looks like 3ware has abandoned the low-end RAID market and the
>> cheapest controller of theirs which I find on Newegg is ~$440. Gone are
>> the
>> days of $120 2-port controllers for desktop use.
>>
>> Does anyone have a recommendation for a hardware RAID controller to mirror
>> drives for a desktop Linux box?
>>
>> I really don't want to go back to the days of software RAID.
>>
>> --
>> Carl Soderstrom
>> Systems Administrator
>> Real-Time Enterprises
>> www.real-time.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From adam at askewview.net  Thu Feb 27 13:49:25 2014
From: adam at askewview.net (Adam Barthelemy)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 13:49:25 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] desktop Linux RAID card recommendation
In-Reply-To: <20140227184554.GJ32948@real-time.com>
References: <20140227184554.GJ32948@real-time.com>
Message-ID: <a209983dfdf55de85ed039728086054e@askewview.net>

Carl,

I have a friend using an Areca card in his BSD box that he is using for 
a NAS.  True hardware controller.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816151031 is the 
"baby" version of what he is using.

--Adam

On 2014-02-27 12:45, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote:
> I find myself clueless about the state of hardware again.
> 
> It used to be that I recommended 3ware RAID controllers because:
> 
> 1. they had good Linux drivers built into the kernel
> 2. they were reliable
> 3. they had a really good management tool suite under Linux
> 
> However, it looks like 3ware has abandoned the low-end RAID market and 
> the
> cheapest controller of theirs which I find on Newegg is ~$440. Gone 
> are the
> days of $120 2-port controllers for desktop use.
> 
> Does anyone have a recommendation for a hardware RAID controller to 
> mirror
> drives for a desktop Linux box?
> 
> I really don't want to go back to the days of software RAID.

From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Thu Feb 27 14:47:20 2014
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 14:47:20 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] zfs time machine video
In-Reply-To: <530F8C8A.5070402@kateley.com>
References: <52F93709.8070208@kateley.com> <53027668.6090403@gmail.com>
 <CAEueRAW5=b6XBjB6dUFcP_FdoA63Vd+ZZCbLsxu8_gbTad6cnA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE0VmCxspK06X6nJeGtijYirRXWvdr_3mEWgsgjv2KXi88SSdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEueRAUYkT+93+dPN-N-dX6FE1Tojz=8tJTvBZv+1qJ2RtvpJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE0VmCyXYTKoHTre+JVTExfGchS86uhGSO9v+H8ziLi2yJ4Qfw@mail.gmail.com>
 <530F8C8A.5070402@kateley.com>
Message-ID: <530FA458.4050406@Goecke-Dolan.com>

Linda,

I don't speak for the list, but I think it is perfectly fine if you 
promote your business a little on the list.

You have contributed to the list, and the group, so I believe you have 
earned the right to promote yourself a little.  (I think we could even 
arrange to plug your business a little on the Penguins Unbound website 
if you like, being you have contributed.)

I think that is only fair if you are willing to come and share your 
knowledge and expertise with the group.

Thanks again for taking part in the group (both the email list and the 
Penguinsunbound meetings!).

==>brian.

On 02/27/2014 01:05 PM, Linda Kateley wrote:
> I really hate to plug my business on a list, but this is what i do. I
> teach classes on zfs. If anyone is interested I thought I would put it
> out there...
>
> kateleyco.com
>
> Most of the work I do is for a bunch of smallish zfs startups. I am
> actually creating freenas content right now.
>
> The reason I was hesitant on saying something definitive is I hadn't
> checked the news yet today. There can always be news. In april of last
> year Oracle reapplied for trademark on the word zfs. I have been waiting
> for them to do something with that :)
>
> linda
>
>
> On 2/27/14, 12:48 PM, T L wrote:
>>
>> Sorry that I was so terse this morning.
>>
>> OpenZFS, per se, is newer than the Oracle acquisition of Sun.
>>
>> There are many ZFS trees, these days. (And, in this era of distributed
>> source control, that's not a big deal anyway. )
>>
>> Each of FreeBSD, ZFS on Linux, et al, have their own trees. OpenZFS
>> isn't code -- its an umbrella organization to promote common
>> development across the open source implementations of ZFS.
>>
>> There have been two recent Ars Technica articles on ZFS and btrfs that
>> are well worth reading if you're interested in this space. (Even the
>> comments are valuable, believe it or not!)
>>
>> Thomas
>>
>> On Feb 27, 2014 9:46 AM, "Seth Miller" <sethmiller.sm at gmail.com
>> <mailto:sethmiller.sm at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Thomas,
>>
>>     You are correct. OpenZFS is open source among ports. ZFS is not.
>>
>>     It may be just a matter of semantics. When Oracle acquired Sun, it
>>     locked down Solaris and everything that belongs to it, including
>>     ZFS. OpenZFS was developed as part of OpenSolaris which is now
>>     discontinued.
>>
>>     What I should have said is Solaris ZFS is no longer open source
>>     which is irrelevant in this case so I stand corrected.
>>
>>     Seth
>>
>>
>>     On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 7:31 AM, T L <tlunde at gmail.com
>>     <mailto:tlunde at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         Seth -
>>
>>         You are mistaken. See OpenZFS.
>>
>>         They may be able to develop a proprietary fork, but you can't
>>         put the genie back in a bottle.
>>
>>         Thomas
>>
>>         On Feb 27, 2014 12:35 AM, "Seth Miller"
>>         <sethmiller.sm at gmail.com <mailto:sethmiller.sm at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>             Nice job Kateley.
>>
>>             Keep in mind that ZFS is no longer open source since
>>             Oracle locked it down.
>>
>>             Seth
>>
>>
>>
>>             On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 2:51 PM, B-o-B De Mars
>>             <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com <mailto:mr.chew.baka at gmail.com>>
>>             wrote:
>>
>>                 On 2/10/2014 2:31 PM, Linda Kateley wrote::
>>
>>                     So I am starting to create some small videos. I
>>                     just posted one that is
>>                     10 minutes to Time Machine. If anyone has a
>>                     second(or 10 minutes), maybe
>>                     take a peak? Give me only positive feedback :) my
>>                     ego is way too fragile
>>                     for negative (again Smiley face).
>>
>>                     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2pyYeANGKc
>>
>>                     The content is probably way to simple for this
>>                     crowd, but i thought i
>>                     would throw it out here..
>>
>>
>>                 Very Nice video Linda!
>>
>>
>>                 _______________________________________________
>>                 TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>                 tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>                 http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>>
>>             _______________________________________________
>>             TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>             tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>             http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From lkateley at kateley.com  Thu Feb 27 15:19:11 2014
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 15:19:11 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] zfs time machine video
In-Reply-To: <530FA458.4050406@Goecke-Dolan.com>
References: <52F93709.8070208@kateley.com> <53027668.6090403@gmail.com>
 <CAEueRAW5=b6XBjB6dUFcP_FdoA63Vd+ZZCbLsxu8_gbTad6cnA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE0VmCxspK06X6nJeGtijYirRXWvdr_3mEWgsgjv2KXi88SSdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEueRAUYkT+93+dPN-N-dX6FE1Tojz=8tJTvBZv+1qJ2RtvpJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE0VmCyXYTKoHTre+JVTExfGchS86uhGSO9v+H8ziLi2yJ4Qfw@mail.gmail.com>
 <530F8C8A.5070402@kateley.com> <530FA458.4050406@Goecke-Dolan.com>
Message-ID: <530FABCF.4060701@kateley.com>

Thanks Brian, I just really don't want to be "that guy" :)

linda

On 2/27/14, 2:47 PM, Brian Dolan-Goecke wrote:
> Linda,
>
> I don't speak for the list, but I think it is perfectly fine if you 
> promote your business a little on the list.
>
> You have contributed to the list, and the group, so I believe you have 
> earned the right to promote yourself a little.  (I think we could even 
> arrange to plug your business a little on the Penguins Unbound website 
> if you like, being you have contributed.)
>
> I think that is only fair if you are willing to come and share your 
> knowledge and expertise with the group.
>
> Thanks again for taking part in the group (both the email list and the 
> Penguinsunbound meetings!).
>
> ==>brian.
>
> On 02/27/2014 01:05 PM, Linda Kateley wrote:
>> I really hate to plug my business on a list, but this is what i do. I
>> teach classes on zfs. If anyone is interested I thought I would put it
>> out there...
>>
>> kateleyco.com
>>
>> Most of the work I do is for a bunch of smallish zfs startups. I am
>> actually creating freenas content right now.
>>
>> The reason I was hesitant on saying something definitive is I hadn't
>> checked the news yet today. There can always be news. In april of last
>> year Oracle reapplied for trademark on the word zfs. I have been waiting
>> for them to do something with that :)
>>
>> linda
>>
>>
>> On 2/27/14, 12:48 PM, T L wrote:
>>>
>>> Sorry that I was so terse this morning.
>>>
>>> OpenZFS, per se, is newer than the Oracle acquisition of Sun.
>>>
>>> There are many ZFS trees, these days. (And, in this era of distributed
>>> source control, that's not a big deal anyway. )
>>>
>>> Each of FreeBSD, ZFS on Linux, et al, have their own trees. OpenZFS
>>> isn't code -- its an umbrella organization to promote common
>>> development across the open source implementations of ZFS.
>>>
>>> There have been two recent Ars Technica articles on ZFS and btrfs that
>>> are well worth reading if you're interested in this space. (Even the
>>> comments are valuable, believe it or not!)
>>>
>>> Thomas
>>>
>>> On Feb 27, 2014 9:46 AM, "Seth Miller" <sethmiller.sm at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:sethmiller.sm at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Thomas,
>>>
>>>     You are correct. OpenZFS is open source among ports. ZFS is not.
>>>
>>>     It may be just a matter of semantics. When Oracle acquired Sun, it
>>>     locked down Solaris and everything that belongs to it, including
>>>     ZFS. OpenZFS was developed as part of OpenSolaris which is now
>>>     discontinued.
>>>
>>>     What I should have said is Solaris ZFS is no longer open source
>>>     which is irrelevant in this case so I stand corrected.
>>>
>>>     Seth
>>>
>>>
>>>     On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 7:31 AM, T L <tlunde at gmail.com
>>>     <mailto:tlunde at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         Seth -
>>>
>>>         You are mistaken. See OpenZFS.
>>>
>>>         They may be able to develop a proprietary fork, but you can't
>>>         put the genie back in a bottle.
>>>
>>>         Thomas
>>>
>>>         On Feb 27, 2014 12:35 AM, "Seth Miller"
>>>         <sethmiller.sm at gmail.com <mailto:sethmiller.sm at gmail.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>             Nice job Kateley.
>>>
>>>             Keep in mind that ZFS is no longer open source since
>>>             Oracle locked it down.
>>>
>>>             Seth
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>             On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 2:51 PM, B-o-B De Mars
>>>             <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com <mailto:mr.chew.baka at gmail.com>>
>>>             wrote:
>>>
>>>                 On 2/10/2014 2:31 PM, Linda Kateley wrote::
>>>
>>>                     So I am starting to create some small videos. I
>>>                     just posted one that is
>>>                     10 minutes to Time Machine. If anyone has a
>>>                     second(or 10 minutes), maybe
>>>                     take a peak? Give me only positive feedback :) my
>>>                     ego is way too fragile
>>>                     for negative (again Smiley face).
>>>
>>>                     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2pyYeANGKc
>>>
>>>                     The content is probably way to simple for this
>>>                     crowd, but i thought i
>>>                     would throw it out here..
>>>
>>>
>>>                 Very Nice video Linda!
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>                 TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>                 tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
>>> <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>             TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>             tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>>
>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>         TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From ryanjcole at me.com  Thu Feb 27 15:39:18 2014
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 15:39:18 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ISO dual-band PoE WAP
Message-ID: <5F1DC2F6-E559-4FC4-878C-4F55B2AB5D5C@me.com>

I?ve used the WAP-4410n from Cisco/Linksys for years. I love it, but it?s only 2.4GHz. The bar I do work at part-time is in the middle of getting a new network and wifi (by me) and I?m trying to find a dual-band WAP that?s affordable and readily available.

I know they can be pricey - the WAP-4410n was discontinued two years ago but still goes for $150-$300 new on the market - but it?s features make it impossible to not fall back to (multiple SSIDs, POE, VLAN, etc.).

If any of you have any recommendations or suggestions please send them through. PoE is a must (not PoE+/802.3at), however, because they sit in the ceiling and there is no 110VAC connections available above the tile.

Thanks!

From erikerik at gmail.com  Thu Feb 27 15:45:29 2014
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 15:45:29 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ISO dual-band PoE WAP
In-Reply-To: <5F1DC2F6-E559-4FC4-878C-4F55B2AB5D5C@me.com>
References: <5F1DC2F6-E559-4FC4-878C-4F55B2AB5D5C@me.com>
Message-ID: <CADdM08qMxS3R5Dou=1HWaWD6qB+0jgP6wd7Bdp+fymUaf4_vig@mail.gmail.com>

The Ubiquiti UniFi AP Pro is an excellent WAP, and it does support PoE:

http://www.ubnt.com/unifi#appro


On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 3:39 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com> wrote:

> I've used the WAP-4410n from Cisco/Linksys for years. I love it, but it's
> only 2.4GHz. The bar I do work at part-time is in the middle of getting a
> new network and wifi (by me) and I'm trying to find a dual-band WAP that's
> affordable and readily available.
>
> I know they can be pricey - the WAP-4410n was discontinued two years ago
> but still goes for $150-$300 new on the market - but it's features make it
> impossible to not fall back to (multiple SSIDs, POE, VLAN, etc.).
>
> If any of you have any recommendations or suggestions please send them
> through. PoE is a must (not PoE+/802.3at), however, because they sit in the
> ceiling and there is no 110VAC connections available above the tile.
>
> Thanks!
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From ryanjcole at me.com  Thu Feb 27 15:50:14 2014
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 15:50:14 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ISO dual-band PoE WAP
In-Reply-To: <CADdM08qMxS3R5Dou=1HWaWD6qB+0jgP6wd7Bdp+fymUaf4_vig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5F1DC2F6-E559-4FC4-878C-4F55B2AB5D5C@me.com>
 <CADdM08qMxS3R5Dou=1HWaWD6qB+0jgP6wd7Bdp+fymUaf4_vig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F48D48E7-8258-4E81-A370-53E1C824BCDC@me.com>

Have you used them a lot? 

What I?d love to do is build a single interface for them to update passwords on the SSIDs (as needed) rather than have them go into the AP and make changes. I?m about 95% certain I can do that with the 4410 (although I must admit I bought the wrong hardware last fall and am only now getting my first ?proper? unit this week).

The price is a little scary, too, but maybe I can find a place that would demo it for me or give me remote access to test some features on. I might be in the market for a few hundred in a year. :crosses fingers:


On Feb 27, 2014, at 3:45 PM, Erik Anderson <erikerik at gmail.com> wrote:

> The Ubiquiti UniFi AP Pro is an excellent WAP, and it does support PoE:
> 
> http://www.ubnt.com/unifi#appro
> 
> 
> On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 3:39 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com> wrote:
> I?ve used the WAP-4410n from Cisco/Linksys for years. I love it, but it?s only 2.4GHz. The bar I do work at part-time is in the middle of getting a new network and wifi (by me) and I?m trying to find a dual-band WAP that?s affordable and readily available.
> 
> I know they can be pricey - the WAP-4410n was discontinued two years ago but still goes for $150-$300 new on the market - but it?s features make it impossible to not fall back to (multiple SSIDs, POE, VLAN, etc.).
> 
> If any of you have any recommendations or suggestions please send them through. PoE is a must (not PoE+/802.3at), however, because they sit in the ceiling and there is no 110VAC connections available above the tile.
> 
> Thanks!
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From erikerik at gmail.com  Thu Feb 27 15:52:49 2014
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 15:52:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ISO dual-band PoE WAP
In-Reply-To: <F48D48E7-8258-4E81-A370-53E1C824BCDC@me.com>
References: <5F1DC2F6-E559-4FC4-878C-4F55B2AB5D5C@me.com>
 <CADdM08qMxS3R5Dou=1HWaWD6qB+0jgP6wd7Bdp+fymUaf4_vig@mail.gmail.com>
 <F48D48E7-8258-4E81-A370-53E1C824BCDC@me.com>
Message-ID: <CADdM08rV-25z67Za68cYQvabPe15RsyHcm7PnoyFdG45BTeRZA@mail.gmail.com>

Yep, they actually have a very nice management interface for adding new
WAPs to the network, and for centralized management.


On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com> wrote:

> Have you used them a lot?
>
> What I'd love to do is build a single interface for them to update
> passwords on the SSIDs (as needed) rather than have them go into the AP and
> make changes. I'm about 95% certain I can do that with the 4410 (although I
> must admit I bought the wrong hardware last fall and am only now getting my
> first 'proper' unit this week).
>
> The price is a little scary, too, but maybe I can find a place that would
> demo it for me or give me remote access to test some features on. I might
> be in the market for a few hundred in a year. :crosses fingers:
>
>
> On Feb 27, 2014, at 3:45 PM, Erik Anderson <erikerik at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The Ubiquiti UniFi AP Pro is an excellent WAP, and it does support PoE:
>
> http://www.ubnt.com/unifi#appro
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 3:39 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com> wrote:
>
>> I've used the WAP-4410n from Cisco/Linksys for years. I love it, but it's
>> only 2.4GHz. The bar I do work at part-time is in the middle of getting a
>> new network and wifi (by me) and I'm trying to find a dual-band WAP that's
>> affordable and readily available.
>>
>> I know they can be pricey - the WAP-4410n was discontinued two years ago
>> but still goes for $150-$300 new on the market - but it's features make it
>> impossible to not fall back to (multiple SSIDs, POE, VLAN, etc.).
>>
>> If any of you have any recommendations or suggestions please send them
>> through. PoE is a must (not PoE+/802.3at), however, because they sit in the
>> ceiling and there is no 110VAC connections available above the tile.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From ryanjcole at me.com  Thu Feb 27 15:55:13 2014
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 15:55:13 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ISO dual-band PoE WAP
In-Reply-To: <CADdM08rV-25z67Za68cYQvabPe15RsyHcm7PnoyFdG45BTeRZA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5F1DC2F6-E559-4FC4-878C-4F55B2AB5D5C@me.com>
 <CADdM08qMxS3R5Dou=1HWaWD6qB+0jgP6wd7Bdp+fymUaf4_vig@mail.gmail.com>
 <F48D48E7-8258-4E81-A370-53E1C824BCDC@me.com>
 <CADdM08rV-25z67Za68cYQvabPe15RsyHcm7PnoyFdG45BTeRZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ED79D44F-C1FC-408D-9ECE-067C5657B93A@me.com>

On further inspection they?re 802.3at-compliant (25W), not 802.3af (15W). They do include a mid-span, it appears, but I don?t have the space in the termination point for them. Hmm.

I saw that - I wouldn?t want to put the software on any machines in the building but I could, in theory, run it from my business network over a VPN.

On Feb 27, 2014, at 3:52 PM, Erik Anderson <erikerik at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yep, they actually have a very nice management interface for adding new WAPs to the network, and for centralized management.
> 
> 
> On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com> wrote:
> Have you used them a lot? 
> 
> What I?d love to do is build a single interface for them to update passwords on the SSIDs (as needed) rather than have them go into the AP and make changes. I?m about 95% certain I can do that with the 4410 (although I must admit I bought the wrong hardware last fall and am only now getting my first ?proper? unit this week).
> 
> The price is a little scary, too, but maybe I can find a place that would demo it for me or give me remote access to test some features on. I might be in the market for a few hundred in a year. :crosses fingers:
> 
> 
> On Feb 27, 2014, at 3:45 PM, Erik Anderson <erikerik at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> The Ubiquiti UniFi AP Pro is an excellent WAP, and it does support PoE:
>> 
>> http://www.ubnt.com/unifi#appro
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 3:39 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com> wrote:
>> I?ve used the WAP-4410n from Cisco/Linksys for years. I love it, but it?s only 2.4GHz. The bar I do work at part-time is in the middle of getting a new network and wifi (by me) and I?m trying to find a dual-band WAP that?s affordable and readily available.
>> 
>> I know they can be pricey - the WAP-4410n was discontinued two years ago but still goes for $150-$300 new on the market - but it?s features make it impossible to not fall back to (multiple SSIDs, POE, VLAN, etc.).
>> 
>> If any of you have any recommendations or suggestions please send them through. PoE is a must (not PoE+/802.3at), however, because they sit in the ceiling and there is no 110VAC connections available above the tile.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From david.wagle at gmail.com  Thu Feb 27 15:56:02 2014
From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 15:56:02 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] desktop Linux RAID card recommendation
In-Reply-To: <a209983dfdf55de85ed039728086054e@askewview.net>
References: <20140227184554.GJ32948@real-time.com>
 <a209983dfdf55de85ed039728086054e@askewview.net>
Message-ID: <CAJdTJyO9F01hO0RrQ3ZgTEeLpGgOXU91V8-wPwpwhuv7WnEGBg@mail.gmail.com>

Synology uses Linux as their OS, so they work real well.


On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 1:49 PM, Adam Barthelemy <adam at askewview.net> wrote:

> Carl,
>
> I have a friend using an Areca card in his BSD box that he is using for a
> NAS.  True hardware controller.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816151031 is the
> "baby" version of what he is using.
>
> --Adam
>
>
> On 2014-02-27 12:45, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote:
>
>> I find myself clueless about the state of hardware again.
>>
>> It used to be that I recommended 3ware RAID controllers because:
>>
>> 1. they had good Linux drivers built into the kernel
>> 2. they were reliable
>> 3. they had a really good management tool suite under Linux
>>
>> However, it looks like 3ware has abandoned the low-end RAID market and the
>> cheapest controller of theirs which I find on Newegg is ~$440. Gone are
>> the
>> days of $120 2-port controllers for desktop use.
>>
>> Does anyone have a recommendation for a hardware RAID controller to mirror
>> drives for a desktop Linux box?
>>
>> I really don't want to go back to the days of software RAID.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From lkateley at kateley.com  Thu Feb 27 15:59:59 2014
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 15:59:59 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ISO dual-band PoE WAP
In-Reply-To: <ED79D44F-C1FC-408D-9ECE-067C5657B93A@me.com>
References: <5F1DC2F6-E559-4FC4-878C-4F55B2AB5D5C@me.com>
 <CADdM08qMxS3R5Dou=1HWaWD6qB+0jgP6wd7Bdp+fymUaf4_vig@mail.gmail.com>
 <F48D48E7-8258-4E81-A370-53E1C824BCDC@me.com>
 <CADdM08rV-25z67Za68cYQvabPe15RsyHcm7PnoyFdG45BTeRZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <ED79D44F-C1FC-408D-9ECE-067C5657B93A@me.com>
Message-ID: <530FB55F.7030606@kateley.com>

Am I looking at the wrong one?

http://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Networks-UniFi-Enterprise-System/dp/B004XXMUCQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1393538069&sr=8-2&keywords=unifi+ap+pro

$67 seems like a good price. I might get one these for my house :) I am 
lurking on this thread because I offered to donate a couple rooms of 
wifi for my kids school and this looks like a fine way to do that.

lk



On 2/27/14, 3:55 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> On further inspection they're 802.3at-compliant (25W), not 802.3af 
> (15W). They do include a mid-span, it appears, but I don't have the 
> space in the termination point for them. Hmm.
>
> I saw that - I wouldn't want to put the software on any machines in 
> the building but I could, in theory, run it from my business network 
> over a VPN.
>
> On Feb 27, 2014, at 3:52 PM, Erik Anderson <erikerik at gmail.com 
> <mailto:erikerik at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> Yep, they actually have a very nice management interface for adding 
>> new WAPs to the network, and for centralized management.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com 
>> <mailto:ryanjcole at me.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Have you used them a lot?
>>
>>     What I'd love to do is build a single interface for them to
>>     update passwords on the SSIDs (as needed) rather than have them
>>     go into the AP and make changes. I'm about 95% certain I can do
>>     that with the 4410 (although I must admit I bought the wrong
>>     hardware last fall and am only now getting my first 'proper' unit
>>     this week).
>>
>>     The price is a little scary, too, but maybe I can find a place
>>     that would demo it for me or give me remote access to test some
>>     features on. I might be in the market for a few hundred in a
>>     year. :crosses fingers:
>>
>>
>>     On Feb 27, 2014, at 3:45 PM, Erik Anderson <erikerik at gmail.com
>>     <mailto:erikerik at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>>     The Ubiquiti UniFi AP Pro is an excellent WAP, and it does
>>>     support PoE:
>>>
>>>     http://www.ubnt.com/unifi#appro
>>>
>>>
>>>     On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 3:39 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com
>>>     <mailto:ryanjcole at me.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         I've used the WAP-4410n from Cisco/Linksys for years. I love
>>>         it, but it's only 2.4GHz. The bar I do work at part-time is
>>>         in the middle of getting a new network and wifi (by me) and
>>>         I'm trying to find a dual-band WAP that's affordable and
>>>         readily available.
>>>
>>>         I know they can be pricey - the WAP-4410n was discontinued
>>>         two years ago but still goes for $150-$300 new on the market
>>>         - but it's features make it impossible to not fall back to
>>>         (multiple SSIDs, POE, VLAN, etc.).
>>>
>>>         If any of you have any recommendations or suggestions please
>>>         send them through. PoE is a must (not PoE+/802.3at),
>>>         however, because they sit in the ceiling and there is no
>>>         110VAC connections available above the tile.
>>>
>>>         Thanks!
>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>         TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From ryanjcole at me.com  Thu Feb 27 16:03:11 2014
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 16:03:11 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ISO dual-band PoE WAP
In-Reply-To: <530FB55F.7030606@kateley.com>
References: <5F1DC2F6-E559-4FC4-878C-4F55B2AB5D5C@me.com>
 <CADdM08qMxS3R5Dou=1HWaWD6qB+0jgP6wd7Bdp+fymUaf4_vig@mail.gmail.com>
 <F48D48E7-8258-4E81-A370-53E1C824BCDC@me.com>
 <CADdM08rV-25z67Za68cYQvabPe15RsyHcm7PnoyFdG45BTeRZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <ED79D44F-C1FC-408D-9ECE-067C5657B93A@me.com> <530FB55F.7030606@kateley.com>
Message-ID: <A65EE8EB-2DE3-481D-AAD1-87188AC17F9C@me.com>

Correct - that?s the 2.4GHz b/g/n one. The list price (from NetGate - where I buy most of that hardware these days): http://store.netgate.com/Dual-Band-Indoor-Units-C130.aspx

$230 for PRO: http://store.netgate.com/Ubiquiti-UAP-PRO-UniFi-PRO-80211abgn-24GHz5GHz-P1767.aspx
$330 for Enterprise: http://store.netgate.com/Ubiquiti-UAP-AC-UniFi-Enterprise-80211abgnac-P1887.aspx

On Feb 27, 2014, at 3:59 PM, Linda Kateley <lkateley at kateley.com> wrote:

> Am I looking at the wrong one?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Networks-UniFi-Enterprise-System/dp/B004XXMUCQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1393538069&sr=8-2&keywords=unifi+ap+pro
> 
> $67 seems like a good price. I might get one these for my house :) I am lurking on this thread because I offered to donate a couple rooms of wifi for my kids school and this looks like a fine way to do that.
> 
> lk
> 
> 
> 
> On 2/27/14, 3:55 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>> On further inspection they?re 802.3at-compliant (25W), not 802.3af (15W). They do include a mid-span, it appears, but I don?t have the space in the termination point for them. Hmm.
>> 
>> I saw that - I wouldn?t want to put the software on any machines in the building but I could, in theory, run it from my business network over a VPN.
>> 
>> On Feb 27, 2014, at 3:52 PM, Erik Anderson <erikerik at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Yep, they actually have a very nice management interface for adding new WAPs to the network, and for centralized management.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com> wrote:
>>> Have you used them a lot? 
>>> 
>>> What I?d love to do is build a single interface for them to update passwords on the SSIDs (as needed) rather than have them go into the AP and make changes. I?m about 95% certain I can do that with the 4410 (although I must admit I bought the wrong hardware last fall and am only now getting my first ?proper? unit this week).
>>> 
>>> The price is a little scary, too, but maybe I can find a place that would demo it for me or give me remote access to test some features on. I might be in the market for a few hundred in a year. :crosses fingers:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Feb 27, 2014, at 3:45 PM, Erik Anderson <erikerik at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> The Ubiquiti UniFi AP Pro is an excellent WAP, and it does support PoE:
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.ubnt.com/unifi#appro
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 3:39 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com> wrote:
>>>> I?ve used the WAP-4410n from Cisco/Linksys for years. I love it, but it?s only 2.4GHz. The bar I do work at part-time is in the middle of getting a new network and wifi (by me) and I?m trying to find a dual-band WAP that?s affordable and readily available.
>>>> 
>>>> I know they can be pricey - the WAP-4410n was discontinued two years ago but still goes for $150-$300 new on the market - but it?s features make it impossible to not fall back to (multiple SSIDs, POE, VLAN, etc.).
>>>> 
>>>> If any of you have any recommendations or suggestions please send them through. PoE is a must (not PoE+/802.3at), however, because they sit in the ceiling and there is no 110VAC connections available above the tile.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks!
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From marc at e-skinner.net  Thu Feb 27 15:47:03 2014
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 15:47:03 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] desktop Linux RAID card recommendation
In-Reply-To: <CAAvSaRphjn9FJF_kGmnWj_EoBy1TcqOiHeuuwJcr+k9Zh8ZAfw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20140227184554.GJ32948@real-time.com>
 <CAAvSaRphjn9FJF_kGmnWj_EoBy1TcqOiHeuuwJcr+k9Zh8ZAfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <530FB257.1020500@e-skinner.net>

I'm getting 415-430 MB/s with a Raid 10 SATA-III with 6 disks with 
mdadm.  RHEL 6.5, on a AMD FX-6 core.

It is a dedicated ISCSI server that serves 6 kvm hypervisors their 
shared VM storage.




On 02/27/2014 12:51 PM, John Frisk wrote:
> Try the LSI hardware RAID cards. Yes they are expensive but that is
> hardware RAID. I personally use the 9266-8i series cards for my servers.
> With 6 disk SATA-III RAID 10 ( 1+0 ) I can get about 350 MB/s
> throughput. Zoom. :)
>
> On Feb 27, 2014 12:46 PM, "Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom"
> <chrome at real-time.com <mailto:chrome at real-time.com>> wrote:
>
>     I find myself clueless about the state of hardware again.
>
>     It used to be that I recommended 3ware RAID controllers because:
>
>     1. they had good Linux drivers built into the kernel
>     2. they were reliable
>     3. they had a really good management tool suite under Linux
>
>     However, it looks like 3ware has abandoned the low-end RAID market
>     and the
>     cheapest controller of theirs which I find on Newegg is ~$440. Gone
>     are the
>     days of $120 2-port controllers for desktop use.
>
>     Does anyone have a recommendation for a hardware RAID controller to
>     mirror
>     drives for a desktop Linux box?
>
>     I really don't want to go back to the days of software RAID.
>
>     --
>     Carl Soderstrom
>     Systems Administrator
>     Real-Time Enterprises
>     www.real-time.com <http://www.real-time.com>
>     _______________________________________________
>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From john.a.frisk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 27 16:20:18 2014
From: john.a.frisk at gmail.com (John Frisk)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 16:20:18 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] desktop Linux RAID card recommendation
In-Reply-To: <530FB257.1020500@e-skinner.net>
References: <20140227184554.GJ32948@real-time.com>
 <CAAvSaRphjn9FJF_kGmnWj_EoBy1TcqOiHeuuwJcr+k9Zh8ZAfw@mail.gmail.com>
 <530FB257.1020500@e-skinner.net>
Message-ID: <CAAvSaRo6YSHp_Xs2jt_nL0n200VU+OXJErmbLhWWrA9CGG_pCA@mail.gmail.com>

Yep I get about the same speed as you Marc on single file access testing
per VM. It goes down for me a bit since I believe I am hitting CPU wait
with 24 VMs running. :) I doubt disk RAID controller is the bottleneck at
that point.
On Feb 27, 2014 4:12 PM, "Marc Skinner" <marc at e-skinner.net> wrote:

> I'm getting 415-430 MB/s with a Raid 10 SATA-III with 6 disks with mdadm.
>  RHEL 6.5, on a AMD FX-6 core.
>
> It is a dedicated ISCSI server that serves 6 kvm hypervisors their shared
> VM storage.
>
>
>
>
> On 02/27/2014 12:51 PM, John Frisk wrote:
>
>> Try the LSI hardware RAID cards. Yes they are expensive but that is
>> hardware RAID. I personally use the 9266-8i series cards for my servers.
>> With 6 disk SATA-III RAID 10 ( 1+0 ) I can get about 350 MB/s
>> throughput. Zoom. :)
>>
>> On Feb 27, 2014 12:46 PM, "Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom"
>> <chrome at real-time.com <mailto:chrome at real-time.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     I find myself clueless about the state of hardware again.
>>
>>     It used to be that I recommended 3ware RAID controllers because:
>>
>>     1. they had good Linux drivers built into the kernel
>>     2. they were reliable
>>     3. they had a really good management tool suite under Linux
>>
>>     However, it looks like 3ware has abandoned the low-end RAID market
>>     and the
>>     cheapest controller of theirs which I find on Newegg is ~$440. Gone
>>     are the
>>     days of $120 2-port controllers for desktop use.
>>
>>     Does anyone have a recommendation for a hardware RAID controller to
>>     mirror
>>     drives for a desktop Linux box?
>>
>>     I really don't want to go back to the days of software RAID.
>>
>>     --
>>     Carl Soderstrom
>>     Systems Administrator
>>     Real-Time Enterprises
>>     www.real-time.com <http://www.real-time.com>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Thu Feb 27 16:41:30 2014
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 16:41:30 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu do-release-upgrade failing
In-Reply-To: <CAJdTJyNFQkU=MkborGJJ4O344C96ALPRS1s4D9_vJ8YRxRUuZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231348080.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231544150.7399@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231737360.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402260149230.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <CAD+dB9DLr1EQyjoJyXcWv1R_0U5=UFW-Q1tcDP1D39Ar4phHAQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140226132406.GC32948@real-time.com>
 <CAJdTJyNFQkU=MkborGJJ4O344C96ALPRS1s4D9_vJ8YRxRUuZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9BmMQdY7Zu64F9AONRO9Zy4FLb5RV0MTPX8aLdt8HR+cQ@mail.gmail.com>

> Reason #6543 why I choose rolling release distributions . . .

i totally get it.  i'd switch, but what keeps me with ubuntu is wanting to
keep current with the edubuntu collection of software in particular, and
the breadth of the ubuntu repos.
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From stuporglue at gmail.com  Thu Feb 27 16:47:04 2014
From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 16:47:04 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu do-release-upgrade failing
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9BmMQdY7Zu64F9AONRO9Zy4FLb5RV0MTPX8aLdt8HR+cQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY175-W26D42FEA860C257E394E099840@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402212023030.4656@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231348080.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402231544150.7399@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402231737360.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1402260149230.23553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <CAD+dB9DLr1EQyjoJyXcWv1R_0U5=UFW-Q1tcDP1D39Ar4phHAQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140226132406.GC32948@real-time.com>
 <CAJdTJyNFQkU=MkborGJJ4O344C96ALPRS1s4D9_vJ8YRxRUuZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+dB9BmMQdY7Zu64F9AONRO9Zy4FLb5RV0MTPX8aLdt8HR+cQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFE18KUesJZvmNGBN1stV+xdr5G9R9XVM+weYfvFqvgzHH_0rA@mail.gmail.com>

You can try upgrading the Debian way. It's not supported, but it usually
worked for me:

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get dist-upgrade

When that's done, then edit /etc/apt/source.list and replace the word
'maverick' with the word 'natty' and run the update/upgrade commands again.

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get dist-upgrade

That should get you to Ubuntu 11.04 and you can try the do-release-upgrade
method again.

--
Michael Moore



On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 4:41 PM, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:

> > Reason #6543 why I choose rolling release distributions . . .
>
> i totally get it.  i'd switch, but what keeps me with ubuntu is wanting to
> keep current with the edubuntu collection of software in particular, and
> the breadth of the ubuntu repos.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From pj.world at hotmail.com  Thu Feb 27 20:30:26 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 20:30:26 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Installing Adobe Flash on Debian 'Wheezy'
In-Reply-To: <CAFE18KWCZ61NHatSYrByi2ReeatXqKO0zNg4WVPuE3U+jVd8SA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY175-W198813B58876DFB36139ED99830@phx.gbl>,
 <CAFE18KU_G+hv0u=VfxicHC7xHGm+Q+zESe1rb2Z4Xi0kbx_J4w@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAJdTJyNR5GXR_6K90j32cgeOnHKBj6tQyJawgisn-2LgtRya-Q@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAFE18KWCZ61NHatSYrByi2ReeatXqKO0zNg4WVPuE3U+jVd8SA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY175-W147C787D335DC923F4F3DE99820@phx.gbl>

Thank you for responding so quickly. With the Debian Wheezy and Java extension plugin I have installed in Iceweasel it sems to work very well with information on Youtube but not Gmail or Hotmail login screen. At one point yesterday I had the shockwave flash plugin showing up in Iceweasel then. I believe youtube would not work. I think there may be a code conflict of some sort. 

As I know I am wondering about this initial installation report of->

paul at debian:/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins$ sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
Suggested packages:





  konqueror-nsplugins ttf-mscorefonts-installer ttf-xfree86-nonfree hal
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  flashplugin-nonfree
0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
Need to get 0 B/20.1 kB of archives.





After this operation, 181 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Selecting previously unselected package flashplugin-nonfree.
(Reading database ... 143339 files and directories currently installed.)
Unpacking flashplugin-nonfree (from .../flashplugin-nonfree_1%3a3.2_amd64.deb) ...





Processing triggers for man-db ...
Processing triggers for hicolor-icon-theme ...
Processing triggers for desktop-file-utils ...
Processing triggers for gnome-menus ...
Setting up flashplugin-nonfree (1:3.2) ...





ERROR: gpg failed to import /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree/pubkey.asc
More information might be available at:
  http://wiki.debian.org/FlashPlayer

It only shows up the first time after everything is purged out etc. from apt. 

Should I perhaps try to look at setting a symbolic link or something of that nature? I do understand that Adobe Flash is not pure GNU. But Adobe flash works so well on Linux Mint and Ubuntu so easily for a noob like me. I am just curious and I thank you for your help.

Paul G



From: stuporglue at gmail.com
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 08:05:49 -0600
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Installing Adobe Flash on Debian 'Wheezy'

On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 7:18 AM, David Wagle <david.wagle at gmail.com> wrote:


adobe has stopped supporting flash on Linux. Even if you can find a working older plugin, it won't  have the ability to handle DRM stuff like Netflix. 



I don't have Netflix, but the old plugin version is still works for Hulu, Amazon Prime and YouTube.  



The  current "best" solution is to install pipelight -- which sets up a modified wine instance that allows Linux browsers to use native windows versions of plugins.  It is far from perfect, but it will get you a fully functional flash environment -- albeit a slightly buggy one. 


Bleh. Reminds me of the bad old days of using NDISWrapper for Wifi. I can't remember the last time I even saw someone asking about NDISWrapper -- I'm glad that's behind us finally. Hopefully some day this pipelight hack will be equally unnecessary. 



--
Michael Moore

 


On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 12:13 AM, Michael Moore <stuporglue at gmail.com> wrote:



On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 11:11 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:








I am having some 'issues' trying to install Adobe flash-player on Debian 'Wheezy' 
running:

Kernel 3.2.0-4-amd64

Gnome 3

Iceweasel 24.3.0

I have successfully installed openjdk- and icedtea-






I have read quite a few forums etc.



Below are the content's of my /etc/apt/sources.list

# 

# deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 7 _Wheezy_ - Official Snapshot amd64 LIVE/INSTALL Binary 20131013-23:23]/ wheezy main






# deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 7 _Wheezy_ - Official Snapshot amd64 LIVE/INSTALL Binary 20131013-23:23]/ wheezy main

# Line commented out by installer because it failed to verify:





# deb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main
# Line commented out by installer because it failed to verify:
deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ wheezy contrib non-free main





deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security wheezy/updates main
# deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security wheezy/updates main





# deb-src http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main
# deb ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free





deb http://lug.mtu.edu/debian wheezy-backports main

I have run the command: sudo apt-get update

then have run the command: sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree      






then receive output:

paul at debian:/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins$ sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
Suggested packages:





  konqueror-nsplugins ttf-mscorefonts-installer ttf-xfree86-nonfree hal
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  flashplugin-nonfree
0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
Need to get 0 B/20.1 kB of archives.





After this operation, 181 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Selecting previously unselected package flashplugin-nonfree.
(Reading database ... 143339 files and directories currently installed.)
Unpacking flashplugin-nonfree (from .../flashplugin-nonfree_1%3a3.2_amd64.deb) ...





Processing triggers for man-db ...
Processing triggers for hicolor-icon-theme ...
Processing triggers for desktop-file-utils ...
Processing triggers for gnome-menus ...
Setting up flashplugin-nonfree (1:3.2) ...





ERROR: gpg failed to import /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree/pubkey.asc
More information might be available at:
  http://wiki.debian.org/FlashPlayer








Here are the contents of /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins

paul at debian:/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins$ ls -lah
total 36K
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4.0K Feb 26 03:53 .
drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4.0K Feb 26 03:30 ..




-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  19K Jul 25  2013 libgnome-shell-browser-plugin.so

lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   39 Feb 26 02:09 libjavaplugin.so -> /etc/alternatives/mozilla-javaplugin.so
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6.0K Jul 27  2012 librhythmbox-itms-detection-plugin.so
paul at debian:/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins$ 






Thank you for any help.
 		 	   		  

_______________________________________________

TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

tclug-list at mn-linux.org

http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

Does it work in the Chromium browser?






I haven't 
been able to get Flash working in Firefox on Debian (64 bit) for some 
time. It does work in Chromium though. I haven't spent much time on it 
though since I don't use Flash all that much. 

--
Michael Moore 


_______________________________________________

TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

tclug-list at mn-linux.org

http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list





_______________________________________________

TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

tclug-list at mn-linux.org

http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list





_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 		 	   		  
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From jus at krytosvirus.com  Thu Feb 27 20:51:49 2014
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 20:51:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Installing Adobe Flash on Debian 'Wheezy'
Message-ID: <6a391vserpyj94iqiinrqske.1393555775724@email.android.com>

An alternative could be to just use Google Chrome (note, not chromium) as Google Chrome has a flash plugin built into the browser, unlike chromium.?

Maybe it will solve your needs??
http://helpx.adobe.com/flash-player/kb/flash-player-google-chrome.html



-------- Original message --------
From: paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> 
Date:02/27/2014  8:30 PM  (GMT-06:00) 
To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Installing Adobe Flash on Debian 'Wheezy' 

Thank you for responding so quickly. With the Debian Wheezy and Java extension plugin I have installed in Iceweasel it sems to work very well with information on Youtube but not Gmail or Hotmail login screen. At one point yesterday I had the shockwave flash plugin showing up in Iceweasel then. I believe youtube would not work. I think there may be a code conflict of some sort. 

As I know I am wondering about this initial installation report of->

paul at debian:/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins$ sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree?????? 
Reading state information... Done
Suggested packages:
? konqueror-nsplugins ttf-mscorefonts-installer ttf-xfree86-nonfree hal
The following NEW packages will be installed:
? flashplugin-nonfree
0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
Need to get 0 B/20.1 kB of archives.
After this operation, 181 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Selecting previously unselected package flashplugin-nonfree.
(Reading database ... 143339 files and directories currently installed.)
Unpacking flashplugin-nonfree (from .../flashplugin-nonfree_1%3a3.2_amd64.deb) ...
Processing triggers for man-db ...
Processing triggers for hicolor-icon-theme ...
Processing triggers for desktop-file-utils ...
Processing triggers for gnome-menus ...
Setting up flashplugin-nonfree (1:3.2) ...
ERROR: gpg failed to import /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree/pubkey.asc
More information might be available at:
? http://wiki.debian.org/FlashPlayer

It only shows up the first time after everything is purged out etc. from apt. 

Should I perhaps try to look at setting a symbolic link or something of that nature? I do understand that Adobe Flash is not pure GNU. But Adobe flash works so well on Linux Mint and Ubuntu so easily for a noob like me. I am just curious and I thank you for your help.

Paul G



From: stuporglue at gmail.com
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 08:05:49 -0600
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Installing Adobe Flash on Debian 'Wheezy'

On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 7:18 AM, David Wagle <david.wagle at gmail.com> wrote:
adobe has stopped supporting flash on Linux. Even if you can find a working older plugin, it won't ?have the ability to handle DRM stuff like Netflix. 

I don't have Netflix, but the old plugin version is still works for Hulu, Amazon Prime and YouTube.? 

The ?current "best" solution is to install pipelight -- which sets up a modified wine instance that allows Linux browsers to use native windows versions of plugins. ?It is far from perfect, but it will get you a fully functional flash environment -- albeit a slightly buggy one.?

Bleh. Reminds me of the bad old days of using NDISWrapper for Wifi. I can't remember the last time I even saw someone asking about NDISWrapper -- I'm glad that's behind us finally. Hopefully some day this pipelight hack will be equally unnecessary. 

--
Michael Moore

?


On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 12:13 AM, Michael Moore <stuporglue at gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 11:11 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
I am having some 'issues' trying to install Adobe flash-player on Debian 'Wheezy'
running:

Kernel 3.2.0-4-amd64

Gnome 3

Iceweasel 24.3.0

I have successfully installed openjdk- and icedtea-

I have read quite a few forums etc.



Below are the content's of my /etc/apt/sources.list

#

# deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 7 _Wheezy_ - Official Snapshot amd64 LIVE/INSTALL Binary 20131013-23:23]/ wheezy main

# deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 7 _Wheezy_ - Official Snapshot amd64 LIVE/INSTALL Binary 20131013-23:23]/ wheezy main

# Line commented out by installer because it failed to verify:
# deb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main
# Line commented out by installer because it failed to verify:
deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ wheezy contrib non-free main
deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security wheezy/updates main
# deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security wheezy/updates main
# deb-src http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main
# deb ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free
deb http://lug.mtu.edu/debian wheezy-backports main

I have run the command: sudo apt-get update

then have run the command: sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree

then receive output:

paul at debian:/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins$ sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Suggested packages:
? konqueror-nsplugins ttf-mscorefonts-installer ttf-xfree86-nonfree hal
The following NEW packages will be installed:
? flashplugin-nonfree
0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
Need to get 0 B/20.1 kB of archives.
After this operation, 181 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Selecting previously unselected package flashplugin-nonfree.
(Reading database ... 143339 files and directories currently installed.)
Unpacking flashplugin-nonfree (from .../flashplugin-nonfree_1%3a3.2_amd64.deb) ...
Processing triggers for man-db ...
Processing triggers for hicolor-icon-theme ...
Processing triggers for desktop-file-utils ...
Processing triggers for gnome-menus ...
Setting up flashplugin-nonfree (1:3.2) ...
ERROR: gpg failed to import /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree/pubkey.asc
More information might be available at:
? http://wiki.debian.org/FlashPlayer



Here are the contents of /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins

paul at debian:/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins$ ls -lah
total 36K
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4.0K Feb 26 03:53 .
drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4.0K Feb 26 03:30 ..
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 19K Jul 25 2013 libgnome-shell-browser-plugin.so
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 39 Feb 26 02:09 libjavaplugin.so -> /etc/alternatives/mozilla-javaplugin.so
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6.0K Jul 27 2012 librhythmbox-itms-detection-plugin.so
paul at debian:/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins$

Thank you for any help.

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

Does it work in the Chromium browser?

I haven't been able to get Flash working in Firefox on Debian (64 bit) for some time. It does work in Chromium though. I haven't spent much time on it though since I don't use Flash all that much. 

--
Michael Moore 

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



_______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From pj.world at hotmail.com  Thu Feb 27 21:05:19 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 21:05:19 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Installing Adobe Flash on Debian 'Wheezy'
In-Reply-To: <6a391vserpyj94iqiinrqske.1393555775724@email.android.com>
References: <6a391vserpyj94iqiinrqske.1393555775724@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <BAY175-W5364ADCB20F105C3D955D99820@phx.gbl>

I thank you for the link but I am wondering why I have to use a Google Browser to obtain Flash. I do not like the thought of using Google Chrome as a main web browser on a Linux system. 

Do you have any thoughts about running Firefox web browser? I read an article on Tech Trends but some of it talks of 'symbolic links'. 

http://techpatterns.com/forums/about1435.html

Have you successfully run Debian 'Wheezy' with flashplayer installed in Mozilla Firefox before? 

I know I am asking for your help but I think it's a valid issue and I appreciate your thoughts.

Thank you

Paul G

P.S. I like to think of it short and simple userwide for the systems users to have Adobe flashplayer installed would symbolic links only affect my account if I follow this article? I again am sorry for asking so many questions.

Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 20:51:49 -0600
From: jus at krytosvirus.com
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Installing Adobe Flash on Debian 'Wheezy'

An alternative could be to just use Google Chrome (note, not chromium) as Google Chrome has a flash plugin built into the browser, unlike chromium. 
Maybe it will solve your needs? http://helpx.adobe.com/flash-player/kb/flash-player-google-chrome.html


-------- Original message --------
From: paul g  
Date:02/27/2014  8:30 PM  (GMT-06:00) 
To: TCLUG Mailing List  
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Installing Adobe Flash on Debian 'Wheezy' 

Thank you for responding so quickly. With the Debian Wheezy and Java extension plugin I have installed in Iceweasel it sems to work very well with information on Youtube but not Gmail or Hotmail login screen. At one point yesterday I had the shockwave flash plugin showing up in Iceweasel then. I believe youtube would not work. I think there may be a code conflict of some sort. 

As I know I am wondering about this initial installation report of->

paul at debian:/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins$ sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
Suggested packages:





  konqueror-nsplugins ttf-mscorefonts-installer ttf-xfree86-nonfree hal
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  flashplugin-nonfree
0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
Need to get 0 B/20.1 kB of archives.





After this operation, 181 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Selecting previously unselected package flashplugin-nonfree.
(Reading database ... 143339 files and directories currently installed.)
Unpacking flashplugin-nonfree (from .../flashplugin-nonfree_1%3a3.2_amd64.deb) ...





Processing triggers for man-db ...
Processing triggers for hicolor-icon-theme ...
Processing triggers for desktop-file-utils ...
Processing triggers for gnome-menus ...
Setting up flashplugin-nonfree (1:3.2) ...





ERROR: gpg failed to import /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree/pubkey.asc
More information might be available at:
  http://wiki.debian.org/FlashPlayer

It only shows up the first time after everything is purged out etc. from apt. 

Should I perhaps try to look at setting a symbolic link or something of that nature? I do understand that Adobe Flash is not pure GNU. But Adobe flash works so well on Linux Mint and Ubuntu so easily for a noob like me. I am just curious and I thank you for your help.

Paul G



From: stuporglue at gmail.com
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 08:05:49 -0600
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Installing Adobe Flash on Debian 'Wheezy'

On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 7:18 AM, David Wagle <david.wagle at gmail.com> wrote:


adobe has stopped supporting flash on Linux. Even if you can find a working older plugin, it won't  have the ability to handle DRM stuff like Netflix. 



I don't have Netflix, but the old plugin version is still works for Hulu, Amazon Prime and YouTube.  



The  current "best" solution is to install pipelight -- which sets up a modified wine instance that allows Linux browsers to use native windows versions of plugins.  It is far from perfect, but it will get you a fully functional flash environment -- albeit a slightly buggy one. 


Bleh. Reminds me of the bad old days of using NDISWrapper for Wifi. I can't remember the last time I even saw someone asking about NDISWrapper -- I'm glad that's behind us finally. Hopefully some day this pipelight hack will be equally unnecessary. 



--
Michael Moore

 


On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 12:13 AM, Michael Moore <stuporglue at gmail.com> wrote:



On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 11:11 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:








I am having some 'issues' trying to install Adobe flash-player on Debian 'Wheezy' 
running:

Kernel 3.2.0-4-amd64

Gnome 3

Iceweasel 24.3.0

I have successfully installed openjdk- and icedtea-






I have read quite a few forums etc.



Below are the content's of my /etc/apt/sources.list

# 

# deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 7 _Wheezy_ - Official Snapshot amd64 LIVE/INSTALL Binary 20131013-23:23]/ wheezy main






# deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 7 _Wheezy_ - Official Snapshot amd64 LIVE/INSTALL Binary 20131013-23:23]/ wheezy main

# Line commented out by installer because it failed to verify:





# deb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main
# Line commented out by installer because it failed to verify:
deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ wheezy contrib non-free main





deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security wheezy/updates main
# deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security wheezy/updates main





# deb-src http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main
# deb ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free





deb http://lug.mtu.edu/debian wheezy-backports main

I have run the command: sudo apt-get update

then have run the command: sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree      






then receive output:

paul at debian:/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins$ sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
Suggested packages:





  konqueror-nsplugins ttf-mscorefonts-installer ttf-xfree86-nonfree hal
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  flashplugin-nonfree
0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
Need to get 0 B/20.1 kB of archives.





After this operation, 181 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Selecting previously unselected package flashplugin-nonfree.
(Reading database ... 143339 files and directories currently installed.)
Unpacking flashplugin-nonfree (from .../flashplugin-nonfree_1%3a3.2_amd64.deb) ...





Processing triggers for man-db ...
Processing triggers for hicolor-icon-theme ...
Processing triggers for desktop-file-utils ...
Processing triggers for gnome-menus ...
Setting up flashplugin-nonfree (1:3.2) ...





ERROR: gpg failed to import /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree/pubkey.asc
More information might be available at:
  http://wiki.debian.org/FlashPlayer








Here are the contents of /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins

paul at debian:/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins$ ls -lah
total 36K
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4.0K Feb 26 03:53 .
drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4.0K Feb 26 03:30 ..




-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  19K Jul 25  2013 libgnome-shell-browser-plugin.so

lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   39 Feb 26 02:09 libjavaplugin.so -> /etc/alternatives/mozilla-javaplugin.so
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6.0K Jul 27  2012 librhythmbox-itms-detection-plugin.so
paul at debian:/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins$ 






Thank you for any help.
 		 	   		  

_______________________________________________

TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

tclug-list at mn-linux.org

http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

Does it work in the Chromium browser?






I haven't 
been able to get Flash working in Firefox on Debian (64 bit) for some 
time. It does work in Chromium though. I haven't spent much time on it 
though since I don't use Flash all that much. 

--
Michael Moore 


_______________________________________________

TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

tclug-list at mn-linux.org

http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list





_______________________________________________

TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

tclug-list at mn-linux.org

http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list





_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 		 	   		  

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 		 	   		  
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From david.wagle at gmail.com  Thu Feb 27 21:56:10 2014
From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 21:56:10 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Installing Adobe Flash on Debian 'Wheezy'
In-Reply-To: <6a391vserpyj94iqiinrqske.1393555775724@email.android.com>
References: <6a391vserpyj94iqiinrqske.1393555775724@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CAJdTJyOQtb1gFqYQUTU51CDzNje1fGFQUCJvOhQm5MVe17-U9Q@mail.gmail.com>

The google chrome plugin on Linux will not play netflix, hbo, hulu or other
DRM flash content.


On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 8:51 PM, Justin Krejci <jus at krytosvirus.com> wrote:

> An alternative could be to just use Google Chrome (note, not chromium) as
> Google Chrome has a flash plugin built into the browser, unlike chromium.
>
> Maybe it will solve your needs?
> http://helpx.adobe.com/flash-player/kb/flash-player-google-chrome.html
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: paul g
> Date:02/27/2014 8:30 PM (GMT-06:00)
> To: TCLUG Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Installing Adobe Flash on Debian 'Wheezy'
>
> Thank you for responding so quickly. With the Debian Wheezy and Java
> extension plugin I have installed in Iceweasel it sems to work very well
> with information on Youtube but not Gmail or Hotmail login screen. At one
> point yesterday I had the shockwave flash plugin showing up in Iceweasel
> then. I believe youtube would not work. I think there may be a code
> conflict of some sort.
>
> As I know I am wondering about this initial installation report of->
>
> paul at debian:/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins$ sudo apt-get install
> flashplugin-nonfree
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree
> Reading state information... Done
> Suggested packages:
>   konqueror-nsplugins ttf-mscorefonts-installer ttf-xfree86-nonfree hal
> The following NEW packages will be installed:
>   flashplugin-nonfree
> 0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
> Need to get 0 B/20.1 kB of archives.
> After this operation, 181 kB of additional disk space will be used.
> Selecting previously unselected package flashplugin-nonfree.
> (Reading database ... 143339 files and directories currently installed.)
> Unpacking flashplugin-nonfree (from
> .../flashplugin-nonfree_1%3a3.2_amd64.deb) ...
> Processing triggers for man-db ...
> Processing triggers for hicolor-icon-theme ...
> Processing triggers for desktop-file-utils ...
> Processing triggers for gnome-menus ...
> Setting up flashplugin-nonfree (1:3.2) ...
> ERROR: gpg failed to import /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree/pubkey.asc
> More information might be available at:
>   http://wiki.debian.org/FlashPlayer
>
> It only shows up the first time after everything is purged out etc. from
> apt.
>
> Should I perhaps try to look at setting a symbolic link or something of
> that nature? I do understand that Adobe Flash is not pure GNU. But Adobe
> flash works so well on Linux Mint and Ubuntu so easily for a noob like me.
> I am just curious and I thank you for your help.
>
> Paul G
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> From: stuporglue at gmail.com
> Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 08:05:49 -0600
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Installing Adobe Flash on Debian 'Wheezy'
>
> On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 7:18 AM, David Wagle <david.wagle at gmail.com>wrote:
>
> adobe has stopped supporting flash on Linux. Even if you can find a
> working older plugin, it won't  have the ability to handle DRM stuff like
> Netflix.
>
>
> I don't have Netflix, but the old plugin version is still works for Hulu,
> Amazon Prime and YouTube.
>
> The  current "best" solution is to install pipelight -- which sets up a
> modified wine instance that allows Linux browsers to use native windows
> versions of plugins.  It is far from perfect, but it will get you a fully
> functional flash environment -- albeit a slightly buggy one.
>
>
> Bleh. Reminds me of the bad old days of using NDISWrapper for Wifi. I
> can't remember the last time I even saw someone asking about NDISWrapper --
> I'm glad that's behind us finally. Hopefully some day this pipelight hack
> will be equally unnecessary.
>
> --
> Michael Moore
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 12:13 AM, Michael Moore <stuporglue at gmail.com>wrote:
>
> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 11:11 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am having some 'issues' trying to install Adobe flash-player on Debian
> 'Wheezy'
> running:
>
> Kernel 3.2.0-4-amd64
>
> Gnome 3
>
> Iceweasel 24.3.0
>
> I have successfully installed openjdk- and icedtea-
>
> I have read quite a few forums etc.
>
>
>
> Below are the content's of my /etc/apt/sources.list
>
> #
>
> # deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 7 _Wheezy_ - Official Snapshot amd64
> LIVE/INSTALL Binary 20131013-23:23]/ wheezy main
>
> # deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 7 _Wheezy_ - Official Snapshot amd64
> LIVE/INSTALL Binary 20131013-23:23]/ wheezy main
>
> # Line commented out by installer because it failed to verify:
> # deb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main
> # Line commented out by installer because it failed to verify:
> deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ wheezy contrib non-free main
> deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security wheezy/updates main
> # deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security wheezy/updates main
> # deb-src http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main
> # deb ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free
> deb http://lug.mtu.edu/debian wheezy-backports main
>
> I have run the command: sudo apt-get update
>
> then have run the command: sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree
>
> then receive output:
>
> paul at debian:/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins$ sudo apt-get install
> flashplugin-nonfree
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree
> Reading state information... Done
> Suggested packages:
>   konqueror-nsplugins ttf-mscorefonts-installer ttf-xfree86-nonfree hal
> The following NEW packages will be installed:
>   flashplugin-nonfree
> 0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
> Need to get 0 B/20.1 kB of archives.
> After this operation, 181 kB of additional disk space will be used.
> Selecting previously unselected package flashplugin-nonfree.
> (Reading database ... 143339 files and directories currently installed.)
> Unpacking flashplugin-nonfree (from
> .../flashplugin-nonfree_1%3a3.2_amd64.deb) ...
> Processing triggers for man-db ...
> Processing triggers for hicolor-icon-theme ...
> Processing triggers for desktop-file-utils ...
> Processing triggers for gnome-menus ...
> Setting up flashplugin-nonfree (1:3.2) ...
> ERROR: gpg failed to import /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree/pubkey.asc
> More information might be available at:
>   http://wiki.debian.org/FlashPlayer
>
>
>
> Here are the contents of /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins
>
> paul at debian:/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins$ ls -lah
> total 36K
> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4.0K Feb 26 03:53 .
> drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4.0K Feb 26 03:30 ..
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  19K Jul 25  2013 libgnome-shell-browser-plugin.so
> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   39 Feb 26 02:09 libjavaplugin.so ->
> /etc/alternatives/mozilla-javaplugin.so
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6.0K Jul 27  2012
> librhythmbox-itms-detection-plugin.so
> paul at debian:/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins$
>
> Thank you for any help.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> Does it work in the Chromium browser?
>
> I haven't been able to get Flash working in Firefox on Debian (64 bit) for
> some time. It does work in Chromium though. I haven't spent much time on it
> though since I don't use Flash all that much.
>
> --
> Michael Moore
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List -
> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From pj.world at hotmail.com  Thu Feb 27 22:34:41 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 22:34:41 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative access?
Message-ID: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>

A simple question: Do strong passwords on a unencrypted harddisk 'root or sudo users' prevent really any sense of security if one chooses to boot into the system using a,an  'prefabbed .iso' or run a program that could search for a plain text password such as 'plain text'. Would the kernel version matter for security reasons in this event?

Thank you, 


 		 	   		  
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From ryanjcole at me.com  Thu Feb 27 22:37:28 2014
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 22:37:28 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
	access?
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <AE96548D-C460-41FB-BA6E-8B175365C2F0@me.com>

No. Nien. Nada. Zilch. Nunca. Bubkis.

Encrypted hard disks/drives/images are encrypted through and through. A root password is defenseless against a boot image - I can (and have, mind you, many times) take over a system using just a bootable CD or USB. I even reverse-engineered part of a vendor?s platform to show them exactly how prone to attack their hardware was.



On Feb 27, 2014, at 10:34 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:

> A simple question: Do strong passwords on a unencrypted harddisk 'root or sudo users' prevent really any sense of security if one chooses to boot into the system using a,an  'prefabbed .iso' or run a program that could search for a plain text password such as 'plain text'. Would the kernel version matter for security reasons in this event?
> 
> Thank you, 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From pj.world at hotmail.com  Thu Feb 27 22:45:59 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 22:45:59 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
 access?
In-Reply-To: <AE96548D-C460-41FB-BA6E-8B175365C2F0@me.com>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>,
 <AE96548D-C460-41FB-BA6E-8B175365C2F0@me.com>
Message-ID: <BAY175-W26B237F75590A2F17FB2D799820@phx.gbl>

What can someone with limited experience do to prevent or postpone even a bit a situation where their root password is useless beyond unplugging the machine for the wall? If the Machine supports a bios password can that help in ones defense mechanism? 

Thank you,

From: ryanjcole at me.com
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 22:37:28 -0600
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative	access?

No. Nien. Nada. Zilch. Nunca. Bubkis.
Encrypted hard disks/drives/images are encrypted through and through. A root password is defenseless against a boot image - I can (and have, mind you, many times) take over a system using just a bootable CD or USB. I even reverse-engineered part of a vendor?s platform to show them exactly how prone to attack their hardware was.


On Feb 27, 2014, at 10:34 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:A simple question: Do strong passwords on a unencrypted harddisk 'root or sudo users' prevent really any sense of security if one chooses to boot into the system using a,an  'prefabbed .iso' or run a program that could search for a plain text password such as 'plain text'. Would the kernel version matter for security reasons in this event?

Thank you, 


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 		 	   		  
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From pj.world at hotmail.com  Thu Feb 27 23:06:23 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 23:06:23 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
 access?
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W26B237F75590A2F17FB2D799820@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>, ,
 <AE96548D-C460-41FB-BA6E-8B175365C2F0@me.com>,
 <BAY175-W26B237F75590A2F17FB2D799820@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY175-W6B299E4C6AFCFA57E3FB999820@phx.gbl>

I am sorry to double post.  Would it be wise to shut down the bios level boot drives what other measures could a limited knowledge user take in act at that point? What if the bios has no set password feature? is their a 'RAM' level feature one can burn into the systems single disk before even MBR or any other bootloader gets it? Is there a way to implement Bios password login without the Bios supporting password accessibility? 

Sorry for double posting,

From: pj.world at hotmail.com
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 22:45:59 -0600
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative access?




What can someone with limited experience do to prevent or postpone even a bit a situation where their root password is useless beyond unplugging the machine for the wall? If the Machine supports a bios password can that help in ones defense mechanism? 

Thank you,

From: ryanjcole at me.com
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 22:37:28 -0600
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative	access?

No. Nien. Nada. Zilch. Nunca. Bubkis.
Encrypted hard disks/drives/images are encrypted through and through. A root password is defenseless against a boot image - I can (and have, mind you, many times) take over a system using just a bootable CD or USB. I even reverse-engineered part of a vendor?s platform to show them exactly how prone to attack their hardware was.


On Feb 27, 2014, at 10:34 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:A simple question: Do strong passwords on a unencrypted harddisk 'root or sudo users' prevent really any sense of security if one chooses to boot into the system using a,an  'prefabbed .iso' or run a program that could search for a plain text password such as 'plain text'. Would the kernel version matter for security reasons in this event?

Thank you, 


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 		 	   		  

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 		 	   		  
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From ryanjcole at me.com  Thu Feb 27 23:07:57 2014
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 23:07:57 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
	access?
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W26B237F75590A2F17FB2D799820@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>
 <AE96548D-C460-41FB-BA6E-8B175365C2F0@me.com>
 <BAY175-W26B237F75590A2F17FB2D799820@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <B28C7BFB-6B44-4F30-AC6D-53D1B08076B7@me.com>

No, not very likely. 

I know in Windows and Mac OS X how to encrypt hard drives but those, in my experience, require user intervention to decrypt to boot up. I?m sorry I cannot be of much further help on the subject.

My previous job (from which I was recently let go) required PCI compliance and that meant, in my case, an encrypted hard drive. I have two passwords on my Mac to enter. The HDD password (22 characters) followed by my OS user password (11 characters).

> I am sorry to double post.  Would it be wise to shut down the bios level boot drives what other measures could a limited knowledge user take in act at that point? What if the bios has no set password feature? is their a 'RAM' level feature one can burn into the systems single disk before even MBR or any other bootloader gets it? Is there a way to implement Bios password login without the Bios supporting password accessibility? 

There must be a PCI compliance feature built into your OS. I just wouldn?t know where to direct you.


On Feb 27, 2014, at 10:45 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:

> What can someone with limited experience do to prevent or postpone even a bit a situation where their root password is useless beyond unplugging the machine for the wall? If the Machine supports a bios password can that help in ones defense mechanism? 
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> From: ryanjcole at me.com
> Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 22:37:28 -0600
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative	access?
> 
> No. Nien. Nada. Zilch. Nunca. Bubkis.
> 
> Encrypted hard disks/drives/images are encrypted through and through. A root password is defenseless against a boot image - I can (and have, mind you, many times) take over a system using just a bootable CD or USB. I even reverse-engineered part of a vendor?s platform to show them exactly how prone to attack their hardware was.
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 27, 2014, at 10:34 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> A simple question: Do strong passwords on a unencrypted harddisk 'root or sudo users' prevent really any sense of security if one chooses to boot into the system using a,an  'prefabbed .iso' or run a program that could search for a plain text password such as 'plain text'. Would the kernel version matter for security reasons in this event?
> 
> Thank you, 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu  Thu Feb 27 23:01:50 2014
From: aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu (Andrew Berg)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 23:01:50 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
	access?
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W26B237F75590A2F17FB2D799820@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>,
 <AE96548D-C460-41FB-BA6E-8B175365C2F0@me.com>
 <BAY175-W26B237F75590A2F17FB2D799820@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <5310183E.8080107@my.hennepintech.edu>

On 2014.02.27 22:45, paul g wrote:
> What can someone with limited experience do to prevent or postpone even a bit a situation where their root password is useless beyond
> unplugging the machine for the wall? If the Machine supports a bios password can that help in ones defense mechanism?
Physical security and disk encryption will help here. A BIOS password is easily cleared by someone with physical access.

From pj.world at hotmail.com  Thu Feb 27 23:21:50 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 23:21:50 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
 access?
In-Reply-To: <B28C7BFB-6B44-4F30-AC6D-53D1B08076B7@me.com>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>,
 <AE96548D-C460-41FB-BA6E-8B175365C2F0@me.com>,
 <BAY175-W26B237F75590A2F17FB2D799820@phx.gbl>,
 <B28C7BFB-6B44-4F30-AC6D-53D1B08076B7@me.com>
Message-ID: <BAY175-W122C9E1BA54F883CEAC95C99820@phx.gbl>

Ryan please could you please consider the GNU/Linux users out there who are struggling to secure their computers from the outside in also. 

Please take point to talk a bit about the 'PCI compliance options and features available' and the like also if I can ask could you please discuss about 'how to update bios under GNU/Linux - instead of an hp windows update package.'

Do you have some experience with writing Bios type programs? 

I am sorry to be a bother.


Thank you for your time

From: ryanjcole at me.com
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 23:07:57 -0600
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative	access?

No, not very likely. 
I know in Windows and Mac OS X how to encrypt hard drives but those, in my experience, require user intervention to decrypt to boot up. I?m sorry I cannot be of much further help on the subject.
My previous job (from which I was recently let go) required PCI compliance and that meant, in my case, an encrypted hard drive. I have two passwords on my Mac to enter. The HDD password (22 characters) followed by my OS user password (11 characters).
I am sorry to double post.  Would it be wise to shut down the bios level boot drives what other measures could a limited knowledge user take in act at that point? What if the bios has no set password feature? is their a 'RAM' level feature one can burn into the systems single disk before even MBR or any other bootloader gets it? Is there a way to implement Bios password login without the Bios supporting password accessibility? There must be a PCI compliance feature built into your OS. I just wouldn?t know where to direct you.

On Feb 27, 2014, at 10:45 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:What can someone with limited experience do to prevent or postpone even a bit a situation where their root password is useless beyond unplugging the machine for the wall? If the Machine supports a bios password can that help in ones defense mechanism? 

Thank you,

From: ryanjcole at me.com
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 22:37:28 -0600
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative	access?

No. Nien. Nada. Zilch. Nunca. Bubkis.
Encrypted hard disks/drives/images are encrypted through and through. A root password is defenseless against a boot image - I can (and have, mind you, many times) take over a system using just a bootable CD or USB. I even reverse-engineered part of a vendor?s platform to show them exactly how prone to attack their hardware was.


On Feb 27, 2014, at 10:34 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:A simple question: Do strong passwords on a unencrypted harddisk 'root or sudo users' prevent really any sense of security if one chooses to boot into the system using a,an  'prefabbed .iso' or run a program that could search for a plain text password such as 'plain text'. Would the kernel version matter for security reasons in this event?

Thank you, 


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

_______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 		 	   		  
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From ryanjcole at me.com  Thu Feb 27 23:23:23 2014
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 23:23:23 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
	access?
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W122C9E1BA54F883CEAC95C99820@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>
 <AE96548D-C460-41FB-BA6E-8B175365C2F0@me.com>
 <BAY175-W26B237F75590A2F17FB2D799820@phx.gbl>
 <B28C7BFB-6B44-4F30-AC6D-53D1B08076B7@me.com>
 <BAY175-W122C9E1BA54F883CEAC95C99820@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1BD91EA8-8381-4A0A-B68B-0B2BFD7101AF@me.com>

I just told you that I don?t know how to do it in Linux. But that it should be possible. That?s all I can help you with.

On Feb 27, 2014, at 11:21 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Ryan please could you please consider the GNU/Linux users out there who are struggling to secure their computers from the outside in also. 
> 
> Please take point to talk a bit about the 'PCI compliance options and features available' and the like also if I can ask could you please discuss about 'how to update bios under GNU/Linux - instead of an hp windows update package.'
> 
> Do you have some experience with writing Bios type programs? 
> 
> I am sorry to be a bother.
> 
> 
> Thank you for your time
> 
> From: ryanjcole at me.com
> Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 23:07:57 -0600
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative	access?
> 
> No, not very likely. 
> 
> I know in Windows and Mac OS X how to encrypt hard drives but those, in my experience, require user intervention to decrypt to boot up. I?m sorry I cannot be of much further help on the subject.
> 
> My previous job (from which I was recently let go) required PCI compliance and that meant, in my case, an encrypted hard drive. I have two passwords on my Mac to enter. The HDD password (22 characters) followed by my OS user password (11 characters).
> 
> I am sorry to double post.  Would it be wise to shut down the bios level boot drives what other measures could a limited knowledge user take in act at that point? What if the bios has no set password feature? is their a 'RAM' level feature one can burn into the systems single disk before even MBR or any other bootloader gets it? Is there a way to implement Bios password login without the Bios supporting password accessibility? 
> There must be a PCI compliance feature built into your OS. I just wouldn?t know where to direct you.
> 
> 
> On Feb 27, 2014, at 10:45 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> What can someone with limited experience do to prevent or postpone even a bit a situation where their root password is useless beyond unplugging the machine for the wall? If the Machine supports a bios password can that help in ones defense mechanism? 
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> From: ryanjcole at me.com
> Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 22:37:28 -0600
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative	access?
> 
> No. Nien. Nada. Zilch. Nunca. Bubkis.
> 
> Encrypted hard disks/drives/images are encrypted through and through. A root password is defenseless against a boot image - I can (and have, mind you, many times) take over a system using just a bootable CD or USB. I even reverse-engineered part of a vendor?s platform to show them exactly how prone to attack their hardware was.
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 27, 2014, at 10:34 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> A simple question: Do strong passwords on a unencrypted harddisk 'root or sudo users' prevent really any sense of security if one chooses to boot into the system using a,an  'prefabbed .iso' or run a program that could search for a plain text password such as 'plain text'. Would the kernel version matter for security reasons in this event?
> 
> Thank you, 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu Feb 27 23:26:50 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 23:26:50 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
 access?
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402272326170.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>

Physical access to a machine trumps everything. Even strong encryption.

On Thu, 27 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:

> A simple question: Do strong passwords on a unencrypted harddisk 'root or
> sudo users' prevent really any sense of security if one chooses to boot into
> the system using a,an? 'prefabbed .iso' or run a program that could search
> for a plain text password such as 'plain text'. Would the kernel version
> matter for security reasons in this event?
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> 
> 
>

From ryanjcole at me.com  Thu Feb 27 23:32:39 2014
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 23:32:39 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
	access?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402272326170.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402272326170.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <DB202616-664E-4E47-9F35-494AC644B59E@me.com>

I?d love to see someone get access to my hard drives on my computer without my password. It would take YEARS to decrypt the drive.

On Feb 27, 2014, at 11:26 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:

> Physical access to a machine trumps everything. Even strong encryption.
> 
> On Thu, 27 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:
> 
>> A simple question: Do strong passwords on a unencrypted harddisk 'root or
>> sudo users' prevent really any sense of security if one chooses to boot into
>> the system using a,an  'prefabbed .iso' or run a program that could search
>> for a plain text password such as 'plain text'. Would the kernel version
>> matter for security reasons in this event?
>> Thank you,
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu  Thu Feb 27 23:33:03 2014
From: aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu (Andrew Berg)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 23:33:03 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
	access?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402272326170.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402272326170.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <53101F8F.2010704@my.hennepintech.edu>

On 2014.02.27 23:26, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
> Physical access to a machine trumps everything. Even strong encryption.
Physical access will give you control of the hardware, but it doesn't get you a free pass to the encrypted data.
Getting at that will generally require other things like a wrench and physical access to the owner.

From pj.world at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 28 00:01:39 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 00:01:39 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
 access?
In-Reply-To: <53101F8F.2010704@my.hennepintech.edu>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402272326170.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <53101F8F.2010704@my.hennepintech.edu>
Message-ID: <BAY175-W4175E38779C43066E61A4899820@phx.gbl>

Could we continue the Post and discuss PCI compliance or better yet 'Bios' Hardening with what little I know about it? Obviously encryption is a better option for harddisks etc. I think any entered data that a user uses in a public 'box' should be automatically refreshed after it is sent 'and removed from the storage file'. I wish we could continue this discussion longer apparently no one cares. 

Thank you all once again for positive help,

> Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 23:33:03 -0600
> From: aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative	access?
> 
> On 2014.02.27 23:26, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
> > Physical access to a machine trumps everything. Even strong encryption.
> Physical access will give you control of the hardware, but it doesn't get you a free pass to the encrypted data.
> Getting at that will generally require other things like a wrench and physical access to the owner.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
 		 	   		  
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Fri Feb 28 00:11:50 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 00:11:50 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
 access?
In-Reply-To: <DB202616-664E-4E47-9F35-494AC644B59E@me.com>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402272326170.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <DB202616-664E-4E47-9F35-494AC644B59E@me.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280011120.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>


On Thu, 27 Feb 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote:

> I?d love to see someone get access to my hard drives on my computer without my password. It would take YEARS to decrypt the drive.

https://xkcd.com/538/

From ryanjcole at me.com  Fri Feb 28 00:13:32 2014
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 00:13:32 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
	access?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280011120.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402272326170.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <DB202616-664E-4E47-9F35-494AC644B59E@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280011120.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <AF454403-D1A8-4A5B-B098-56C30CC6D565@me.com>

Again. ?I would like to see someone access my hard drives on my computer without my password.?

That solution would require my password.


On Feb 28, 2014, at 12:11 AM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:

> 
> On Thu, 27 Feb 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> 
>> I?d love to see someone get access to my hard drives on my computer without my password. It would take YEARS to decrypt the drive.
> 
> https://xkcd.com/538/_______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From tclug at freakzilla.com  Fri Feb 28 00:15:23 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 00:15:23 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
 access?
In-Reply-To: <AF454403-D1A8-4A5B-B098-56C30CC6D565@me.com>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402272326170.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <DB202616-664E-4E47-9F35-494AC644B59E@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280011120.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <AF454403-D1A8-4A5B-B098-56C30CC6D565@me.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280014410.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>

Not saying it's easy, but the best case scenario here is someone steals 
your harddrive and you lose any data that's not backed up. Untrusted 
people gaining physical access is never good.

On Fri, 28 Feb 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote:

> Again. ?I would like to see someone access my hard drives on my computer without my password.?
>
> That solution would require my password.
>
>
> On Feb 28, 2014, at 12:11 AM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
>
>>
>> On Thu, 27 Feb 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>>
>>> I?d love to see someone get access to my hard drives on my computer without my password. It would take YEARS to decrypt the drive.
>>
>> https://xkcd.com/538/_______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From ryanjcole at me.com  Fri Feb 28 00:17:48 2014
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 00:17:48 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
	access?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280014410.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402272326170.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <DB202616-664E-4E47-9F35-494AC644B59E@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280011120.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <AF454403-D1A8-4A5B-B098-56C30CC6D565@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280014410.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <028C216F-DDB7-4E7A-A06C-75BE13652069@me.com>

Agreed. Even my automated (Time Machine) backups are encrypted with another 25-character password. 

On Feb 28, 2014, at 12:15 AM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:

> Not saying it's easy, but the best case scenario here is someone steals your harddrive and you lose any data that's not backed up. Untrusted people gaining physical access is never good.
> 
> On Fri, 28 Feb 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> 
>> Again. ?I would like to see someone access my hard drives on my computer without my password.?
>> 
>> That solution would require my password.
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 28, 2014, at 12:11 AM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, 27 Feb 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I?d love to see someone get access to my hard drives on my computer without my password. It would take YEARS to decrypt the drive.
>>> 
>>> https://xkcd.com/538/_______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From pj.world at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 28 00:22:52 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 00:22:52 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
 access?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280014410.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402272326170.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <DB202616-664E-4E47-9F35-494AC644B59E@me.com>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280011120.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <AF454403-D1A8-4A5B-B098-56C30CC6D565@me.com>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280014410.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <BAY175-W5A7B279C7710563FFA72D99820@phx.gbl>

So how can I easily encrypt a 40 gigabyte hd that is running linux mint maya? I do have a Bios password enabled and I know that is easily overcome as well. By following your thoughts. It almost seems like a Raid 1 array could be a mute point 'I have been thinking about learning more on that subject'. If physical access is easy to obtain. I just have so many questions I apologize. Thank you Ryan for the great Link on PCI compliance. 

http://www.centrify.com/blogs/tomkemp/pci_compliance_for_linux.asp

Thank you,

Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 00:15:23 -0600
From: tclug at freakzilla.com
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative access?

Not saying it's easy, but the best case scenario here is someone steals 
your harddrive and you lose any data that's not backed up. Untrusted 
people gaining physical access is never good.
 
On Fri, 28 Feb 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote:
 
> Again. ?I would like to see someone access my hard drives on my computer without my password.?
>
> That solution would require my password.
>
>
> On Feb 28, 2014, at 12:11 AM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
>
>>
>> On Thu, 27 Feb 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>>
>>> I?d love to see someone get access to my hard drives on my computer without my password. It would take YEARS to decrypt the drive.
>>
>> https://xkcd.com/538/_______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 		 	   		  
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Fri Feb 28 00:39:41 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 00:39:41 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
 access?
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W5A7B279C7710563FFA72D99820@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402272326170.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <DB202616-664E-4E47-9F35-494AC644B59E@me.com>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280011120.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <AF454403-D1A8-4A5B-B098-56C30CC6D565@me.com>, 
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280014410.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W5A7B279C7710563FFA72D99820@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280035010.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>

I'm not saying you HAVE to be worried about physical access. My main 
point, and this is considering my over-a-decade experience in data 
security, is that if someone REALLY wants your data THAT badly, they will 
get it. If someone wants your data badly enough to break into your house, 
steal your computer and beat you up for the password, then you're out of 
luck (:

If you're just trying to make sure that nobody can access your data if you 
lose your laptop somewhere, then yeah, encryption and strong passwords are 
the way to go. Same if you have roommates you trust, but not THAT much.

On Fri, 28 Feb 2014, paul g wrote:

> So how can I easily encrypt a 40 gigabyte hd that is running linux mint
> maya? I do have a Bios password enabled and I know that is easily overcome
> as well. By following your thoughts. It almost seems like a Raid 1 array
> could be a mute point 'I have been thinking about learning more on that
> subject'. If physical access is easy to obtain. I just have so many
> questions I apologize. Thank you Ryan for the great Link on PCI compliance.
> 
> http://www.centrify.com/blogs/tomkemp/pci_compliance_for_linux.asp
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 00:15:23 -0600
> From: tclug at freakzilla.com
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
> access?
> 
> Not saying it's easy, but the best case scenario here is someone steals 
> your harddrive and you lose any data that's not backed up. Untrusted 
> people gaining physical access is never good.
> 
> On Fri, 28 Feb 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> 
> > Again. ?I would like to see someone access my hard drives on my computer w
> ithout my password.?
> >
> > That solution would require my password.
> >
> >
> > On Feb 28, 2014, at 12:11 AM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On Thu, 27 Feb 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> >>
> >>> I?d love to see someone get access to my hard drives on my computer with
> out my password. It would take YEARS to decrypt the drive.
> >>
> >> https://xkcd.com/538/_______________________________________________
> >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List -
> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
>

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Fri Feb 28 01:43:06 2014
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 01:43:06 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
	access?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280035010.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402272326170.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <DB202616-664E-4E47-9F35-494AC644B59E@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280011120.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <AF454403-D1A8-4A5B-B098-56C30CC6D565@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280014410.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W5A7B279C7710563FFA72D99820@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280035010.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9A5ynG-HMn3nwjuTzLd=QC_eXkrJFXQTH=OSRGn0kWoRQ@mail.gmail.com>

no one's mentioned:  someone who gains physical access can leave a trojan
which listens for your password and saves or sends it somewhere
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From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Fri Feb 28 01:48:39 2014
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 01:48:39 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
	access?
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9A5ynG-HMn3nwjuTzLd=QC_eXkrJFXQTH=OSRGn0kWoRQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402272326170.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <DB202616-664E-4E47-9F35-494AC644B59E@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280011120.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <AF454403-D1A8-4A5B-B098-56C30CC6D565@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280014410.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W5A7B279C7710563FFA72D99820@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280035010.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAD+dB9A5ynG-HMn3nwjuTzLd=QC_eXkrJFXQTH=OSRGn0kWoRQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9CAYTA2xyGyH3q7Jg41OLZwkUfjccvJEF620dxiE7GnkQ@mail.gmail.com>

or a bug device in your keyboard.  seriously, if someone smart wants your
data, they can get it, period, and you may never even know it's happening.
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From aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu  Fri Feb 28 02:49:47 2014
From: aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu (Andrew Berg)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 02:49:47 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
	access?
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9CAYTA2xyGyH3q7Jg41OLZwkUfjccvJEF620dxiE7GnkQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402272326170.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <DB202616-664E-4E47-9F35-494AC644B59E@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280011120.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <AF454403-D1A8-4A5B-B098-56C30CC6D565@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280014410.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W5A7B279C7710563FFA72D99820@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280035010.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAD+dB9A5ynG-HMn3nwjuTzLd=QC_eXkrJFXQTH=OSRGn0kWoRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+dB9CAYTA2xyGyH3q7Jg41OLZwkUfjccvJEF620dxiE7GnkQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53104DAB.4000607@my.hennepintech.edu>

On 2014.02.28 01:48, gregrwm wrote:
> or a bug device in your keyboard.  seriously, if someone smart wants your data, they can get it, period, and you may never even know it's
> happening.
It all depends on your threat model. It's not safe to assume you're ever totally secure, but it's also not a good idea to always assume you
could be compromised at any moment by nefarious forces. The best plan is to assess what resources an attacker would be willing to acquire in
order to attack you and make yourself at least secure enough to defend against that. If you think national governments are after you, you'd
better have the insane amount of resources required to defend against that kind of threat or never record anything anywhere and go live in
the woods. Of course, if you just want to keep some nosy and/or prank-happy roommates out, you certainly don't need trillions of dollars and
crippling paranoia - disk encryption and basic physical security measures will be more than enough. I absolutely loathe the idea, which is
especially common among less tech-savvy people because more knowledgeable people have scared them with their paranoia and the occasional
high-profile security breaches, that "hackers" and criminals are omnipotent when it comes to computer systems and can get access to anything
they want.

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Fri Feb 28 03:59:07 2014
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 03:59:07 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
	access?
In-Reply-To: <53104DAB.4000607@my.hennepintech.edu>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402272326170.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <DB202616-664E-4E47-9F35-494AC644B59E@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280011120.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <AF454403-D1A8-4A5B-B098-56C30CC6D565@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280014410.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W5A7B279C7710563FFA72D99820@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280035010.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAD+dB9A5ynG-HMn3nwjuTzLd=QC_eXkrJFXQTH=OSRGn0kWoRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+dB9CAYTA2xyGyH3q7Jg41OLZwkUfjccvJEF620dxiE7GnkQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <53104DAB.4000607@my.hennepintech.edu>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9AX0KQ_xYuFPCPYO5ve4Tp4WQc0QfZv5xJk1ivUsFUdUg@mail.gmail.com>

agreed.  afterall anything is possible.  but little is likely.

you can be as paranoid as you like.  or, you can try relaxing a bit.

but logic can't cure paranoia.  humor perhaps has a better chance.  hence

"just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!"
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From david.wagle at gmail.com  Fri Feb 28 07:34:12 2014
From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 07:34:12 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
	access?
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9AX0KQ_xYuFPCPYO5ve4Tp4WQc0QfZv5xJk1ivUsFUdUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402272326170.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <DB202616-664E-4E47-9F35-494AC644B59E@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280011120.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <AF454403-D1A8-4A5B-B098-56C30CC6D565@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280014410.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W5A7B279C7710563FFA72D99820@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280035010.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAD+dB9A5ynG-HMn3nwjuTzLd=QC_eXkrJFXQTH=OSRGn0kWoRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+dB9CAYTA2xyGyH3q7Jg41OLZwkUfjccvJEF620dxiE7GnkQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <53104DAB.4000607@my.hennepintech.edu>
 <CAD+dB9AX0KQ_xYuFPCPYO5ve4Tp4WQc0QfZv5xJk1ivUsFUdUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJdTJyPRceE+Y+yKduSLzTCs1gKVm5Y9U9nDjAQ65azqzpO+tg@mail.gmail.com>

If someone has physical access to the computer, even an encrypted hard
drive is not a guarantee of data security.


On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 3:59 AM, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:

> agreed.  afterall anything is possible.  but little is likely.
>
> you can be as paranoid as you like.  or, you can try relaxing a bit.
>
> but logic can't cure paranoia.  humor perhaps has a better chance.  hence
>
> "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!"
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Fri Feb 28 08:18:11 2014
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 08:18:11 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
	access?
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9AX0KQ_xYuFPCPYO5ve4Tp4WQc0QfZv5xJk1ivUsFUdUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402272326170.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <DB202616-664E-4E47-9F35-494AC644B59E@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280011120.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <AF454403-D1A8-4A5B-B098-56C30CC6D565@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280014410.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W5A7B279C7710563FFA72D99820@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280035010.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAD+dB9A5ynG-HMn3nwjuTzLd=QC_eXkrJFXQTH=OSRGn0kWoRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+dB9CAYTA2xyGyH3q7Jg41OLZwkUfjccvJEF620dxiE7GnkQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <53104DAB.4000607@my.hennepintech.edu>
 <CAD+dB9AX0KQ_xYuFPCPYO5ve4Tp4WQc0QfZv5xJk1ivUsFUdUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACEdYO3ybvJ5Am+fX5ny+v=yb1gZ0jr=JJEhPh-thcAfgUGGuw@mail.gmail.com>

Ultimately, the length and complexity of the password / use of keys is
what makes encryption good. Nearly all the common encryption
algorithms out there are crackable if physical control is compromised
and weak keys are used. Speaking from experience, all but one below
I've been able to crack years ago with a decent gpu / distributed
processing and weak pass-phrase (less than 12 chars). Keep in mind,
more chars is not always correlated to success of encryption, refer to
targeted dictionary attacks, rainbow tables, and the chair to keyboard
factor.

* Ubuntu (and I believe Debian) give ecryptfs option for home
directories (folder level encryption) via the gui installer. Tied to
your user account password, which is it's weakness, strong pw hashes /
salting help a lot for exposed passwd and shadow files
* TrueCrypt can also do a home directory or simple container in Linux,
with pass-phrase and various keys, but not full disk encryption unless
on Windows
* Several paid options out there, often for enterprise, McAfee is a
common one, handle full disk, complex encryption for nearly all
platforms
* More manual options include dm-crypt + LUKS, with pass-phrase and
various key options (similar to a more manual and CLI like Windows
BitLocker). Does the job well, but tough upfront learning curve

--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com


On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 3:59 AM, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:
> agreed.  afterall anything is possible.  but little is likely.
>
> you can be as paranoid as you like.  or, you can try relaxing a bit.
>
> but logic can't cure paranoia.  humor perhaps has a better chance.  hence
>
> "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!"
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From samael.anon at gmail.com  Fri Feb 28 09:15:49 2014
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 09:15:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
	access?
In-Reply-To: <CACEdYO3ybvJ5Am+fX5ny+v=yb1gZ0jr=JJEhPh-thcAfgUGGuw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402272326170.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <DB202616-664E-4E47-9F35-494AC644B59E@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280011120.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <AF454403-D1A8-4A5B-B098-56C30CC6D565@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280014410.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W5A7B279C7710563FFA72D99820@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280035010.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAD+dB9A5ynG-HMn3nwjuTzLd=QC_eXkrJFXQTH=OSRGn0kWoRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+dB9CAYTA2xyGyH3q7Jg41OLZwkUfjccvJEF620dxiE7GnkQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <53104DAB.4000607@my.hennepintech.edu>
 <CAD+dB9AX0KQ_xYuFPCPYO5ve4Tp4WQc0QfZv5xJk1ivUsFUdUg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACEdYO3ybvJ5Am+fX5ny+v=yb1gZ0jr=JJEhPh-thcAfgUGGuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKJ_APqbsdds-t9MKFDG1QUXbED1tGYPB7NHnVEddR=Sov00kw@mail.gmail.com>

I don't know if anyone mentioned using truecrypt to have a hidden operating
system.  haven't dont it yet but seems like an interesting way to spend a
day.


On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 8:18 AM, Jeremy MountainJohnson <
jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ultimately, the length and complexity of the password / use of keys is
> what makes encryption good. Nearly all the common encryption
> algorithms out there are crackable if physical control is compromised
> and weak keys are used. Speaking from experience, all but one below
> I've been able to crack years ago with a decent gpu / distributed
> processing and weak pass-phrase (less than 12 chars). Keep in mind,
> more chars is not always correlated to success of encryption, refer to
> targeted dictionary attacks, rainbow tables, and the chair to keyboard
> factor.
>
> * Ubuntu (and I believe Debian) give ecryptfs option for home
> directories (folder level encryption) via the gui installer. Tied to
> your user account password, which is it's weakness, strong pw hashes /
> salting help a lot for exposed passwd and shadow files
> * TrueCrypt can also do a home directory or simple container in Linux,
> with pass-phrase and various keys, but not full disk encryption unless
> on Windows
> * Several paid options out there, often for enterprise, McAfee is a
> common one, handle full disk, complex encryption for nearly all
> platforms
> * More manual options include dm-crypt + LUKS, with pass-phrase and
> various key options (similar to a more manual and CLI like Windows
> BitLocker). Does the job well, but tough upfront learning curve
>
> --
> Jeremy MountainJohnson
> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 3:59 AM, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:
> > agreed.  afterall anything is possible.  but little is likely.
> >
> > you can be as paranoid as you like.  or, you can try relaxing a bit.
> >
> > but logic can't cure paranoia.  humor perhaps has a better chance.  hence
> >
> > "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!"
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From samael.anon at gmail.com  Fri Feb 28 09:22:37 2014
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 09:22:37 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] zfs time machine video
In-Reply-To: <530FABCF.4060701@kateley.com>
References: <52F93709.8070208@kateley.com> <53027668.6090403@gmail.com>
 <CAEueRAW5=b6XBjB6dUFcP_FdoA63Vd+ZZCbLsxu8_gbTad6cnA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE0VmCxspK06X6nJeGtijYirRXWvdr_3mEWgsgjv2KXi88SSdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEueRAUYkT+93+dPN-N-dX6FE1Tojz=8tJTvBZv+1qJ2RtvpJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE0VmCyXYTKoHTre+JVTExfGchS86uhGSO9v+H8ziLi2yJ4Qfw@mail.gmail.com>
 <530F8C8A.5070402@kateley.com> <530FA458.4050406@Goecke-Dolan.com>
 <530FABCF.4060701@kateley.com>
Message-ID: <CAKJ_APrvK7EdgL1RL6LkgdnR=NiJaigNB7RSjTYRxNUPFSE==A@mail.gmail.com>

nicely done,  Very clean and concise.


On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 3:19 PM, Linda Kateley <lkateley at kateley.com> wrote:

> Thanks Brian, I just really don't want to be "that guy" :)
>
> linda
>
>
> On 2/27/14, 2:47 PM, Brian Dolan-Goecke wrote:
>
>> Linda,
>>
>> I don't speak for the list, but I think it is perfectly fine if you
>> promote your business a little on the list.
>>
>> You have contributed to the list, and the group, so I believe you have
>> earned the right to promote yourself a little.  (I think we could even
>> arrange to plug your business a little on the Penguins Unbound website if
>> you like, being you have contributed.)
>>
>> I think that is only fair if you are willing to come and share your
>> knowledge and expertise with the group.
>>
>> Thanks again for taking part in the group (both the email list and the
>> Penguinsunbound meetings!).
>>
>> ==>brian.
>>
>> On 02/27/2014 01:05 PM, Linda Kateley wrote:
>>
>>> I really hate to plug my business on a list, but this is what i do. I
>>> teach classes on zfs. If anyone is interested I thought I would put it
>>> out there...
>>>
>>> kateleyco.com
>>>
>>> Most of the work I do is for a bunch of smallish zfs startups. I am
>>> actually creating freenas content right now.
>>>
>>> The reason I was hesitant on saying something definitive is I hadn't
>>> checked the news yet today. There can always be news. In april of last
>>> year Oracle reapplied for trademark on the word zfs. I have been waiting
>>> for them to do something with that :)
>>>
>>> linda
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/27/14, 12:48 PM, T L wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sorry that I was so terse this morning.
>>>>
>>>> OpenZFS, per se, is newer than the Oracle acquisition of Sun.
>>>>
>>>> There are many ZFS trees, these days. (And, in this era of distributed
>>>> source control, that's not a big deal anyway. )
>>>>
>>>> Each of FreeBSD, ZFS on Linux, et al, have their own trees. OpenZFS
>>>> isn't code -- its an umbrella organization to promote common
>>>> development across the open source implementations of ZFS.
>>>>
>>>> There have been two recent Ars Technica articles on ZFS and btrfs that
>>>> are well worth reading if you're interested in this space. (Even the
>>>> comments are valuable, believe it or not!)
>>>>
>>>> Thomas
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 27, 2014 9:46 AM, "Seth Miller" <sethmiller.sm at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:sethmiller.sm at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     Thomas,
>>>>
>>>>     You are correct. OpenZFS is open source among ports. ZFS is not.
>>>>
>>>>     It may be just a matter of semantics. When Oracle acquired Sun, it
>>>>     locked down Solaris and everything that belongs to it, including
>>>>     ZFS. OpenZFS was developed as part of OpenSolaris which is now
>>>>     discontinued.
>>>>
>>>>     What I should have said is Solaris ZFS is no longer open source
>>>>     which is irrelevant in this case so I stand corrected.
>>>>
>>>>     Seth
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 7:31 AM, T L <tlunde at gmail.com
>>>>     <mailto:tlunde at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         Seth -
>>>>
>>>>         You are mistaken. See OpenZFS.
>>>>
>>>>         They may be able to develop a proprietary fork, but you can't
>>>>         put the genie back in a bottle.
>>>>
>>>>         Thomas
>>>>
>>>>         On Feb 27, 2014 12:35 AM, "Seth Miller"
>>>>         <sethmiller.sm at gmail.com <mailto:sethmiller.sm at gmail.com>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>             Nice job Kateley.
>>>>
>>>>             Keep in mind that ZFS is no longer open source since
>>>>             Oracle locked it down.
>>>>
>>>>             Seth
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>             On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 2:51 PM, B-o-B De Mars
>>>>             <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com <mailto:mr.chew.baka at gmail.com>>
>>>>             wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                 On 2/10/2014 2:31 PM, Linda Kateley wrote::
>>>>
>>>>                     So I am starting to create some small videos. I
>>>>                     just posted one that is
>>>>                     10 minutes to Time Machine. If anyone has a
>>>>                     second(or 10 minutes), maybe
>>>>                     take a peak? Give me only positive feedback :) my
>>>>                     ego is way too fragile
>>>>                     for negative (again Smiley face).
>>>>
>>>>                     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2pyYeANGKc
>>>>
>>>>                     The content is probably way to simple for this
>>>>                     crowd, but i thought i
>>>>                     would throw it out here..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 Very Nice video Linda!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>                 TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>                 tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> >
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>>             TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>             tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>>         TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From erikerik at gmail.com  Fri Feb 28 10:02:30 2014
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 10:02:30 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
	access?
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W5A7B279C7710563FFA72D99820@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402272326170.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <DB202616-664E-4E47-9F35-494AC644B59E@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280011120.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <AF454403-D1A8-4A5B-B098-56C30CC6D565@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280014410.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W5A7B279C7710563FFA72D99820@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CADdM08oMg-2tG5e3FGH34iZAF3zbuzCU7TyN7BSGJ3-TwaP43Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 12:22 AM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:

> It almost seems like a Raid 1 array could be a mute point 'I have been
> thinking about learning more on that subject'.


RAID is a completely different topic - it has nothing to do with data
security. Rather, RAID[1,5,6,10,50,etc.) deal with high availability,
protection from physical device failure, and in some cases, IO performance.

-erik
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From david.wagle at gmail.com  Fri Feb 28 10:19:51 2014
From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 10:19:51 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
	access?
In-Reply-To: <CADdM08oMg-2tG5e3FGH34iZAF3zbuzCU7TyN7BSGJ3-TwaP43Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402272326170.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <DB202616-664E-4E47-9F35-494AC644B59E@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280011120.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <AF454403-D1A8-4A5B-B098-56C30CC6D565@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280014410.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W5A7B279C7710563FFA72D99820@phx.gbl>
 <CADdM08oMg-2tG5e3FGH34iZAF3zbuzCU7TyN7BSGJ3-TwaP43Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJdTJyN9ZZ03HJksH1U1vjBttm+bznRgcvTViqZ0bLQYxNEUog@mail.gmail.com>

That kind of depends on how you define "data security." Many people use the
term in the sense of not merely denying access of the data to those without
proper authorization but also of ensuring access for those who do have
proper authorization. In the latter case,  availability is part of
security.

Which is about the only thing stopping some data security guys from pulling
all the wires off, encasing the hard drives in 3' of concrete and sinking
them in the middle of the Pacific :)


On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 10:02 AM, Erik Anderson <erikerik at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 12:22 AM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It almost seems like a Raid 1 array could be a mute point 'I have been
>> thinking about learning more on that subject'.
>
>
> RAID is a completely different topic - it has nothing to do with data
> security. Rather, RAID[1,5,6,10,50,etc.) deal with high availability,
> protection from physical device failure, and in some cases, IO performance.
>
> -erik
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From erikerik at gmail.com  Fri Feb 28 10:23:02 2014
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 10:23:02 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
	access?
In-Reply-To: <CAJdTJyN9ZZ03HJksH1U1vjBttm+bznRgcvTViqZ0bLQYxNEUog@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402272326170.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <DB202616-664E-4E47-9F35-494AC644B59E@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280011120.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <AF454403-D1A8-4A5B-B098-56C30CC6D565@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280014410.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W5A7B279C7710563FFA72D99820@phx.gbl>
 <CADdM08oMg-2tG5e3FGH34iZAF3zbuzCU7TyN7BSGJ3-TwaP43Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJdTJyN9ZZ03HJksH1U1vjBttm+bznRgcvTViqZ0bLQYxNEUog@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADdM08rTtTK1xR_D+Nna83oSP0+XrcyEODnY_cLihf6LQNZjyQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 10:19 AM, David Wagle <david.wagle at gmail.com> wrote:

> That kind of depends on how you define "data security." Many people use
> the term in the sense of not merely denying access of the data to those
> without proper authorization but also of ensuring access for those who do
> have proper authorization. In the latter case,  availability is part of
> security.


I'd argue that's an incorrect definition of security, but that's neither
here nor there. I don't want to dive too far into pedantism. :)
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From david.wagle at gmail.com  Fri Feb 28 11:00:27 2014
From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 11:00:27 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
	access?
In-Reply-To: <CADdM08rTtTK1xR_D+Nna83oSP0+XrcyEODnY_cLihf6LQNZjyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402272326170.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <DB202616-664E-4E47-9F35-494AC644B59E@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280011120.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <AF454403-D1A8-4A5B-B098-56C30CC6D565@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280014410.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W5A7B279C7710563FFA72D99820@phx.gbl>
 <CADdM08oMg-2tG5e3FGH34iZAF3zbuzCU7TyN7BSGJ3-TwaP43Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJdTJyN9ZZ03HJksH1U1vjBttm+bznRgcvTViqZ0bLQYxNEUog@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADdM08rTtTK1xR_D+Nna83oSP0+XrcyEODnY_cLihf6LQNZjyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJdTJyM7DRhH58YYrgzRXa3BkHTvE-J_CcWuYFg+iw7ZE8xbcA@mail.gmail.com>

I agree - that's a debate better served with beer :)



On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Erik Anderson <erikerik at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 10:19 AM, David Wagle <david.wagle at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> That kind of depends on how you define "data security." Many people use
>> the term in the sense of not merely denying access of the data to those
>> without proper authorization but also of ensuring access for those who do
>> have proper authorization. In the latter case,  availability is part of
>> security.
>
>
> I'd argue that's an incorrect definition of security, but that's neither
> here nor there. I don't want to dive too far into pedantism. :)
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From chrome at real-time.com  Fri Feb 28 16:38:01 2014
From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:38:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] desktop Linux RAID card recommendation
In-Reply-To: <a209983dfdf55de85ed039728086054e@askewview.net>
References: <20140227184554.GJ32948@real-time.com>
 <a209983dfdf55de85ed039728086054e@askewview.net>
Message-ID: <20140228223801.GE45321@real-time.com>

So I'm not hearing any strong recommendations for a
low-end-but-well-supported RAID card. What are people doing on their desktop
Linux boxen for storage these days? 

Going with one drive, doing regular backups and hoping for the best? 

Software RAID?

-- 
Carl Soderstrom
Systems Administrator
Real-Time Enterprises
www.real-time.com

From david.wagle at gmail.com  Fri Feb 28 16:58:53 2014
From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 16:58:53 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] desktop Linux RAID card recommendation
In-Reply-To: <20140228223801.GE45321@real-time.com>
References: <20140227184554.GJ32948@real-time.com>
 <a209983dfdf55de85ed039728086054e@askewview.net>
 <20140228223801.GE45321@real-time.com>
Message-ID: <CAJdTJyP8TC+GH+AE2NCO3tO4mHUaj6OZKmTBUcGPQdJiG33-2A@mail.gmail.com>

on board sata disk mirroring onto an SSD drive for my system space. My
package database (i'm on Arch), along with everything in user space goes to
a Synology NAS box and gets duplicated up to Glacier.


On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 4:38 PM, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom <
chrome at real-time.com> wrote:

> So I'm not hearing any strong recommendations for a
> low-end-but-well-supported RAID card. What are people doing on their
> desktop
> Linux boxen for storage these days?
>
> Going with one drive, doing regular backups and hoping for the best?
>
> Software RAID?
>
> --
> Carl Soderstrom
> Systems Administrator
> Real-Time Enterprises
> www.real-time.com
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From droidjd at gmail.com  Fri Feb 28 17:03:26 2014
From: droidjd at gmail.com (Andrew Dahl)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:03:26 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] desktop Linux RAID card recommendation
In-Reply-To: <20140228223801.GE45321@real-time.com>
References: <20140227184554.GJ32948@real-time.com>
 <a209983dfdf55de85ed039728086054e@askewview.net>
 <20140228223801.GE45321@real-time.com>
Message-ID: <CAFjzMdzc0AzHP=61L2boNCq0r2AsyFBT4Qf=0+K39jgZj4a5nw@mail.gmail.com>

On my desktop and laptop I just have 1 disk and do backups (using
crashplan) onto my home server.

On my server, I have a Software Raid 5 setup and do backups of that to
crashplan's servers.


On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 4:38 PM, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom <
chrome at real-time.com> wrote:

> So I'm not hearing any strong recommendations for a
> low-end-but-well-supported RAID card. What are people doing on their
> desktop
> Linux boxen for storage these days?
>
> Going with one drive, doing regular backups and hoping for the best?
>
> Software RAID?
>
> --
> Carl Soderstrom
> Systems Administrator
> Real-Time Enterprises
> www.real-time.com
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From pj.world at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 28 17:27:29 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:27:29 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
 access?
In-Reply-To: <CAJdTJyM7DRhH58YYrgzRXa3BkHTvE-J_CcWuYFg+iw7ZE8xbcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402272326170.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <DB202616-664E-4E47-9F35-494AC644B59E@me.com>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280011120.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <AF454403-D1A8-4A5B-B098-56C30CC6D565@me.com>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280014410.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <BAY175-W5A7B279C7710563FFA72D99820@phx.gbl>,
 <CADdM08oMg-2tG5e3FGH34iZAF3zbuzCU7TyN7BSGJ3-TwaP43Q@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAJdTJyN9ZZ03HJksH1U1vjBttm+bznRgcvTViqZ0bLQYxNEUog@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CADdM08rTtTK1xR_D+Nna83oSP0+XrcyEODnY_cLihf6LQNZjyQ@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAJdTJyM7DRhH58YYrgzRXa3BkHTvE-J_CcWuYFg+iw7ZE8xbcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY175-W38DF8370801527F401B2099820@phx.gbl>

Thank you for all your wonderful help with the discussion on passwords and encryption. I appreciate all the helpfulness and the points. 

Paul G 

Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 11:00:27 -0600
From: david.wagle at gmail.com
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative	access?

I agree - that's a debate better served with beer :)



On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Erik Anderson <erikerik at gmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 10:19 AM, David Wagle <david.wagle at gmail.com> wrote:


That kind of depends on how you define "data security." Many people use the term in the sense of not merely denying access of the data to those without proper authorization but also of ensuring access for those who do have proper authorization. In the latter case,  availability is part of security. 


I'd argue that's an incorrect definition of security, but that's neither here nor there. I don't want to dive too far into pedantism. :)

_______________________________________________

TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

tclug-list at mn-linux.org

http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list





_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 		 	   		  
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From pj.world at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 28 17:51:23 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:51:23 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] A question about printing'
Message-ID: <BAY175-W96AD8A425E39857A4C78499820@phx.gbl>

I have successfully installed the 'CUPS' and the appropriate drivers for a model 'MFC-295CN' Brother printer. 

The machine is running kernel: Linux deb-desktop 3.2.0-59-generic #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux


I can print documents properly as well as scan them using xsane. Test page printout work great! also 'full color'.

My issue is with the accompanied 'BRFAX' which I have installed also uses 'Cups' is as follows: 

When I click on 'BRFAX' inside 'Cups'
Reports an error:

The error is as follows: 'shown in Cups'

Stopped - File "/usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter" has insecure permissions (0100777/uid=0/gid=0).

deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ ls -lah
-rwxrwxrwx  1 root root 5.2K Nov 24  2005 brfaxfilter

dpkg -l | grep Brother

ii  brmfcfaxcups                           1.0.0-2                                 Brother MFC/FAX fax share function driver
ii  brmfcfaxlpd                            1.0.0-2                                 Brother MFC-FAX LPD driver
ii  brother-udev-rule-type1                1.0.0-1                                 Brother udev rule type 1
ii  brscan-skey                            0.2.4-1                                 Brother Linux scanner S-KEY tool
ii  brscan3                                0.2.11-4                                Brother Scanner Driver
ii  mfc295cncupswrapper                    1.1.3-1                                 Brother CUPS Inkjet Printer Definitions
ii  mfc295cnlpr                            1.1.3-1                                 Brother lpr Inkjet Printer Definitions
ii  printer-driver-ptouch                  1.3-3ubuntu0.1                          printer driver Brother P-touch label printers

Any ideas on where to go from here?

Thank You,

Paul G




 		 	   		  
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From erikerik at gmail.com  Fri Feb 28 17:56:06 2014
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:56:06 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] A question about printing'
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W96AD8A425E39857A4C78499820@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W96AD8A425E39857A4C78499820@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <D140056F-DE07-41A5-8251-B13A22640ECC@gmail.com>

chmod 755 that sucker and try again. 

> On Feb 28, 2014, at 17:51, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I have successfully installed the 'CUPS' and the appropriate drivers for a model 'MFC-295CN' Brother printer. 
> 
> The machine is running kernel: Linux deb-desktop 3.2.0-59-generic #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
> 
> 
> I can print documents properly as well as scan them using xsane. Test page printout work great! also 'full color'.
> 
> My issue is with the accompanied 'BRFAX' which I have installed also uses 'Cups' is as follows: 
> 
> When I click on 'BRFAX' inside 'Cups'
> Reports an error:
> 
> The error is as follows: 'shown in Cups'
> 
> Stopped - File "/usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter" has insecure permissions (0100777/uid=0/gid=0).
> 
> deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ ls -lah
> -rwxrwxrwx  1 root root 5.2K Nov 24  2005 brfaxfilter
> 
> dpkg -l | grep Brother
> 
> ii  brmfcfaxcups                           1.0.0-2                                 Brother MFC/FAX fax share function driver
> ii  brmfcfaxlpd                            1.0.0-2                                 Brother MFC-FAX LPD driver
> ii  brother-udev-rule-type1                1.0.0-1                                 Brother udev rule type 1
> ii  brscan-skey                            0.2.4-1                                 Brother Linux scanner S-KEY tool
> ii  brscan3                                0.2.11-4                                Brother Scanner Driver
> ii  mfc295cncupswrapper                    1.1.3-1                                 Brother CUPS Inkjet Printer Definitions
> ii  mfc295cnlpr                            1.1.3-1                                 Brother lpr Inkjet Printer Definitions
> ii  printer-driver-ptouch                  1.3-3ubuntu0.1                          printer driver Brother P-touch label printers
> 
> Any ideas on where to go from here?
> 
> Thank You,
> 
> Paul G
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From david.wagle at gmail.com  Fri Feb 28 17:58:10 2014
From: david.wagle at gmail.com (David Wagle)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:58:10 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] A question about printing'
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W96AD8A425E39857A4C78499820@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W96AD8A425E39857A4C78499820@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAJdTJyMvrPYE6E4_GgwWLDGiQMa2Uja64JXxwWpWuVyd=HF-GA@mail.gmail.com>

ls -l of /usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter

Looks like you have a sticky bit set and have it 'rwx' for all. It really
only probably needs to be 'rw-' for owner and group, and then any user who
is allowed to use it  should be in that group. There should be no need for
a sticky bit to be set.



On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:

> I have successfully installed the 'CUPS' and the appropriate drivers for a
> model 'MFC-295CN' Brother printer.
>
> The machine is running kernel: Linux deb-desktop 3.2.0-59-generic
> #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
>
>
> I can print documents properly as well as scan them using xsane. Test page
> printout work great! also 'full color'.
>
> My issue is with the accompanied 'BRFAX' which I have installed also uses
> 'Cups' is as follows:
>
> When I click on 'BRFAX' inside 'Cups'
> Reports an error:
>
> The error is as follows: 'shown in Cups'
>
> Stopped - File "/usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter" has insecure permissions
> (0100777/uid=0/gid=0).
>
> deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ ls -lah
> -rwxrwxrwx  1 root root 5.2K Nov 24  2005 brfaxfilter
>
> dpkg -l | grep Brother
>
> ii  brmfcfaxcups
> 1.0.0-2                                 Brother MFC/FAX fax share function
> driver
> ii  brmfcfaxlpd
> 1.0.0-2                                 Brother MFC-FAX LPD driver
> ii  brother-udev-rule-type1
> 1.0.0-1                                 Brother udev rule type 1
> ii  brscan-skey
> 0.2.4-1                                 Brother Linux scanner S-KEY tool
> ii  brscan3
> 0.2.11-4                                Brother Scanner Driver
> ii  mfc295cncupswrapper
> 1.1.3-1                                 Brother CUPS Inkjet Printer
> Definitions
> ii  mfc295cnlpr
> 1.1.3-1                                 Brother lpr Inkjet Printer
> Definitions
> ii  printer-driver-ptouch
> 1.3-3ubuntu0.1                          printer driver Brother P-touch
> label printers
>
> Any ideas on where to go from here?
>
> Thank You,
>
> Paul G
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From pj.world at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 28 19:16:31 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:16:31 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] A question about printing'
In-Reply-To: <CAJdTJyMvrPYE6E4_GgwWLDGiQMa2Uja64JXxwWpWuVyd=HF-GA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY175-W96AD8A425E39857A4C78499820@phx.gbl>,
 <CAJdTJyMvrPYE6E4_GgwWLDGiQMa2Uja64JXxwWpWuVyd=HF-GA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY175-W3858B6CC2EC7BEFD8BA7C8998D0@phx.gbl>

I just preformed a 'chmod' command and permissions NOW look like this for the file:

located under: deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ 

-rwxrw-rw-  1 root deb  5.2K Nov 24  2005 brfaxfilter

command I entered was:

sudo chmod go-x  brfaxfilter

to remove execute.
 
rebooted the machine same thing still shows up in Cups.

Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:58:10 -0600
From: david.wagle at gmail.com
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing'

ls -l of /usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter 

Looks like you have a sticky bit set and have it 'rwx' for all. It really only probably needs to be 'rw-' for owner and group, and then any user who is allowed to use it  should be in that group. There should be no need for a sticky bit to be set. 




On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:




I have successfully installed the 'CUPS' and the appropriate drivers for a model 'MFC-295CN' Brother printer. 

The machine is running kernel: Linux deb-desktop 3.2.0-59-generic #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux



I can print documents properly as well as scan them using xsane. Test page printout work great! also 'full color'.

My issue is with the accompanied 'BRFAX' which I have installed also uses 'Cups' is as follows: 


When I click on 'BRFAX' inside 'Cups'
Reports an error:

The error is as follows: 'shown in Cups'

Stopped - File "/usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter" has insecure permissions (0100777/uid=0/gid=0).


deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ ls -lah
-rwxrwxrwx  1 root root 5.2K Nov 24  2005 brfaxfilter

dpkg -l | grep Brother

ii  brmfcfaxcups                           1.0.0-2                                 Brother MFC/FAX fax share function driver

ii  brmfcfaxlpd                            1.0.0-2                                 Brother MFC-FAX LPD driver
ii  brother-udev-rule-type1                1.0.0-1                                 Brother udev rule type 1

ii  brscan-skey                            0.2.4-1                                 Brother Linux scanner S-KEY tool
ii  brscan3                                0.2.11-4                                Brother Scanner Driver

ii  mfc295cncupswrapper                    1.1.3-1                                 Brother CUPS Inkjet Printer Definitions
ii  mfc295cnlpr                            1.1.3-1                                 Brother lpr Inkjet Printer Definitions

ii  printer-driver-ptouch                  1.3-3ubuntu0.1                          printer driver Brother P-touch label printers

Any ideas on where to go from here?

Thank You,

Paul G





 		 	   		  

_______________________________________________

TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

tclug-list at mn-linux.org

http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list





_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 		 	   		  
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From pj.world at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 28 19:36:53 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:36:53 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] A question about printing'
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W3858B6CC2EC7BEFD8BA7C8998D0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY175-W96AD8A425E39857A4C78499820@phx.gbl>, ,
 <CAJdTJyMvrPYE6E4_GgwWLDGiQMa2Uja64JXxwWpWuVyd=HF-GA@mail.gmail.com>,
 <BAY175-W3858B6CC2EC7BEFD8BA7C8998D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY175-W10861DFFA0DA9F791C06F6998D0@phx.gbl>

Again I am sorry to repost BUT the following should be noted:

I am using a majic jack based telephone line system 'VOIP',

I have adjusted the MFC-295CN to 9600 baud rate 'fax',

I do of course have a high speed ethernet connection,

Your help is always appreciated.

Thank you for your time,

Paul G


From: pj.world at hotmail.com
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:16:31 -0600
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing'




I just preformed a 'chmod' command and permissions NOW look like this for the file:

located under: deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ 

-rwxrw-rw-  1 root deb  5.2K Nov 24  2005 brfaxfilter

command I entered was:

sudo chmod go-x  brfaxfilter

to remove execute.
 
rebooted the machine same thing still shows up in Cups.

Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:58:10 -0600
From: david.wagle at gmail.com
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about printing'

ls -l of /usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter 

Looks like you have a sticky bit set and have it 'rwx' for all. It really only probably needs to be 'rw-' for owner and group, and then any user who is allowed to use it  should be in that group. There should be no need for a sticky bit to be set. 




On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:




I have successfully installed the 'CUPS' and the appropriate drivers for a model 'MFC-295CN' Brother printer. 

The machine is running kernel: Linux deb-desktop 3.2.0-59-generic #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux



I can print documents properly as well as scan them using xsane. Test page printout work great! also 'full color'.

My issue is with the accompanied 'BRFAX' which I have installed also uses 'Cups' is as follows: 


When I click on 'BRFAX' inside 'Cups'
Reports an error:

The error is as follows: 'shown in Cups'

Stopped - File "/usr/lib/cups/filter/brfaxfilter" has insecure permissions (0100777/uid=0/gid=0).


deb at deb-desktop /usr/lib/cups/filter $ ls -lah
-rwxrwxrwx  1 root root 5.2K Nov 24  2005 brfaxfilter

dpkg -l | grep Brother

ii  brmfcfaxcups                           1.0.0-2                                 Brother MFC/FAX fax share function driver

ii  brmfcfaxlpd                            1.0.0-2                                 Brother MFC-FAX LPD driver
ii  brother-udev-rule-type1                1.0.0-1                                 Brother udev rule type 1

ii  brscan-skey                            0.2.4-1                                 Brother Linux scanner S-KEY tool
ii  brscan3                                0.2.11-4                                Brother Scanner Driver

ii  mfc295cncupswrapper                    1.1.3-1                                 Brother CUPS Inkjet Printer Definitions
ii  mfc295cnlpr                            1.1.3-1                                 Brother lpr Inkjet Printer Definitions

ii  printer-driver-ptouch                  1.3-3ubuntu0.1                          printer driver Brother P-touch label printers

Any ideas on where to go from here?

Thank You,

Paul G





 		 	   		  

_______________________________________________

TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

tclug-list at mn-linux.org

http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list





_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 		 	   		  

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 		 	   		  
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From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Fri Feb 28 19:42:01 2014
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:42:01 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] desktop Linux RAID card recommendation
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9C0bf4Bb2EW3DbOL=KNrB+LHnrNAP+Pvfh5W3SovO_ewg@mail.gmail.com>

no raids, local backuppc tending both local and some remote sites
(omitting certain sizable caches such as
var/lib/ureadahead/*
var/lib/mlocate/*
var/lib/apt/lists
var/cache/apt/*), and script that duplicates recent backuppc
gatherings to a remote store (maintaining hardlinks for all copies of
identical files, hence only transferring new&changed files)

From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Fri Feb 28 21:55:28 2014
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 21:55:28 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
	access?
In-Reply-To: <CACEdYO3ybvJ5Am+fX5ny+v=yb1gZ0jr=JJEhPh-thcAfgUGGuw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402272326170.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <DB202616-664E-4E47-9F35-494AC644B59E@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280011120.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <AF454403-D1A8-4A5B-B098-56C30CC6D565@me.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280014410.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <BAY175-W5A7B279C7710563FFA72D99820@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280035010.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAD+dB9A5ynG-HMn3nwjuTzLd=QC_eXkrJFXQTH=OSRGn0kWoRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+dB9CAYTA2xyGyH3q7Jg41OLZwkUfjccvJEF620dxiE7GnkQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <53104DAB.4000607@my.hennepintech.edu>
 <CAD+dB9AX0KQ_xYuFPCPYO5ve4Tp4WQc0QfZv5xJk1ivUsFUdUg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACEdYO3ybvJ5Am+fX5ny+v=yb1gZ0jr=JJEhPh-thcAfgUGGuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53115A30.7000501@Goecke-Dolan.com>

With Xubuntu 13.10 I setup partition encryption, with it's own 
passphrase via the installation gui.  Asks for passphrase then boots and 
asks for login.

I am pretty sure it has been possible to do partition encrypting for a 
while, I don't believe it has been in the gui installer until recently.

Here is an article that tells how to do partition encryption in Ubuntu 
12.04...

http://newspaint.wordpress.com/2012/09/21/full-disk-encryption-on-xubuntu-precise-12-04/

Now not full disk.. but full partition (Although I haven't tested 
it...hummm.). Not sure that encrypting the boot partition will gain you 
a whole lot more security ?

==>brian.


On 02/28/2014 08:18 AM, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote:
> Ultimately, the length and complexity of the password / use of keys is
> what makes encryption good. Nearly all the common encryption
> algorithms out there are crackable if physical control is compromised
> and weak keys are used. Speaking from experience, all but one below
> I've been able to crack years ago with a decent gpu / distributed
> processing and weak pass-phrase (less than 12 chars). Keep in mind,
> more chars is not always correlated to success of encryption, refer to
> targeted dictionary attacks, rainbow tables, and the chair to keyboard
> factor.
>
> * Ubuntu (and I believe Debian) give ecryptfs option for home
> directories (folder level encryption) via the gui installer. Tied to
> your user account password, which is it's weakness, strong pw hashes /
> salting help a lot for exposed passwd and shadow files
> * TrueCrypt can also do a home directory or simple container in Linux,
> with pass-phrase and various keys, but not full disk encryption unless
> on Windows
> * Several paid options out there, often for enterprise, McAfee is a
> common one, handle full disk, complex encryption for nearly all
> platforms
> * More manual options include dm-crypt + LUKS, with pass-phrase and
> various key options (similar to a more manual and CLI like Windows
> BitLocker). Does the job well, but tough upfront learning curve
>
> --
> Jeremy MountainJohnson
> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 3:59 AM, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:
>> agreed.  afterall anything is possible.  but little is likely.
>>
>> you can be as paranoid as you like.  or, you can try relaxing a bit.
>>
>> but logic can't cure paranoia.  humor perhaps has a better chance.  hence
>>
>> "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!"
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From pj.world at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 28 22:20:25 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 22:20:25 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative
 access?
In-Reply-To: <53115A30.7000501@Goecke-Dolan.com>
References: <BAY175-W4445074C107E4CEF51564399820@phx.gbl>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402272326170.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <DB202616-664E-4E47-9F35-494AC644B59E@me.com>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280011120.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <AF454403-D1A8-4A5B-B098-56C30CC6D565@me.com>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280014410.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <BAY175-W5A7B279C7710563FFA72D99820@phx.gbl>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402280035010.17960@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <CAD+dB9A5ynG-HMn3nwjuTzLd=QC_eXkrJFXQTH=OSRGn0kWoRQ@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAD+dB9CAYTA2xyGyH3q7Jg41OLZwkUfjccvJEF620dxiE7GnkQ@mail.gmail.com>,
 <53104DAB.4000607@my.hennepintech.edu>,
 <CAD+dB9AX0KQ_xYuFPCPYO5ve4Tp4WQc0QfZv5xJk1ivUsFUdUg@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CACEdYO3ybvJ5Am+fX5ny+v=yb1gZ0jr=JJEhPh-thcAfgUGGuw@mail.gmail.com>,
 <53115A30.7000501@Goecke-Dolan.com>
Message-ID: <BAY175-W126A4E84822D7F0A2D5E9D998D0@phx.gbl>

Thank you for your help.

> Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 21:55:28 -0600
> From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Do strong root passwords prevent alternative	access?
> 
> With Xubuntu 13.10 I setup partition encryption, with it's own 
> passphrase via the installation gui.  Asks for passphrase then boots and 
> asks for login.
> 
> I am pretty sure it has been possible to do partition encrypting for a 
> while, I don't believe it has been in the gui installer until recently.
> 
> Here is an article that tells how to do partition encryption in Ubuntu 
> 12.04...
> 
> http://newspaint.wordpress.com/2012/09/21/full-disk-encryption-on-xubuntu-precise-12-04/
> 
> Now not full disk.. but full partition (Although I haven't tested 
> it...hummm.). Not sure that encrypting the boot partition will gain you 
> a whole lot more security ?
> 
> ==>brian.
> 
> 
> On 02/28/2014 08:18 AM, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote:
> > Ultimately, the length and complexity of the password / use of keys is
> > what makes encryption good. Nearly all the common encryption
> > algorithms out there are crackable if physical control is compromised
> > and weak keys are used. Speaking from experience, all but one below
> > I've been able to crack years ago with a decent gpu / distributed
> > processing and weak pass-phrase (less than 12 chars). Keep in mind,
> > more chars is not always correlated to success of encryption, refer to
> > targeted dictionary attacks, rainbow tables, and the chair to keyboard
> > factor.
> >
> > * Ubuntu (and I believe Debian) give ecryptfs option for home
> > directories (folder level encryption) via the gui installer. Tied to
> > your user account password, which is it's weakness, strong pw hashes /
> > salting help a lot for exposed passwd and shadow files
> > * TrueCrypt can also do a home directory or simple container in Linux,
> > with pass-phrase and various keys, but not full disk encryption unless
> > on Windows
> > * Several paid options out there, often for enterprise, McAfee is a
> > common one, handle full disk, complex encryption for nearly all
> > platforms
> > * More manual options include dm-crypt + LUKS, with pass-phrase and
> > various key options (similar to a more manual and CLI like Windows
> > BitLocker). Does the job well, but tough upfront learning curve
> >
> > --
> > Jeremy MountainJohnson
> > Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 3:59 AM, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:
> >> agreed.  afterall anything is possible.  but little is likely.
> >>
> >> you can be as paranoid as you like.  or, you can try relaxing a bit.
> >>
> >> but logic can't cure paranoia.  humor perhaps has a better chance.  hence
> >>
> >> "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!"
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
 		 	   		  
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