From tclug at freakzilla.com Sat Jun 1 00:11:28 2013 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 00:11:28 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Creating a PGP key with Linux In-Reply-To: References: , , <20130601043123.GZ19193@signbit.net>, , Message-ID: Ok, I understand people misspelling my name when all they've done is heard it, but it's right up there! You only need to cut and paste! (: Anyway, yeah, PGP is... it can be weird, especially if you're using webmail. It used to be a lot of fun but frankly I haven't used it in years. Even on the enterprise level, it seems to have switched over to s/mime based encryption (PGP was nice but there was a real cowboy mentality about it). There is a handy PGP cheat-sheet here: http://irtfweb.ifa.hawaii.edu/~lockhart/gpg/ Since you want to use webmail, you'll have to do a LOT of stuff manually. On a sidenote - I /hate/ math, but even I can appreciate the elegance of the whole RSA symmetrical private/public big prime number thing which PGP is based on. On Fri, 31 May 2013, Paul graf wrote: > > > Yes that is the answer I was looking for Yarin but it seems so difficult for > me to grasp the PGP key concept. Thank you for replying you were most > helpful in answering my question. > > Thank You, > > From pj.world at hotmail.com Sat Jun 1 00:20:32 2013 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (Paul graf) Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 00:20:32 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Creating a PGP key with Linux In-Reply-To: References: , , , <20130601043123.GZ19193@signbit.net>, , , , , , Message-ID: Yaron I appreciate all your help with the link and emails I apologize for misspelling your name. Thank You, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From florin at iucha.net Sat Jun 1 01:18:38 2013 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 01:18:38 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Creating a PGP key with Linux In-Reply-To: References: <20130601043123.GZ19193@signbit.net> Message-ID: <20130601061838.GA19193@signbit.net> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 11:33:56PM -0500, Paul graf wrote: > But Florin I am the system admin on this machine here at home Oh, that is a different matter altogether. Yaron was quite correct in describing it as a lot of pain. If you _really_ need it, it might be easier to contract with a provider that offers secured imap and smtp access, so you can use a desktop client that integrates gnupg, PGP or S-Mime. > you have a GPG key in your emails. Yes, I do - an old habit, abided by the ease with which mutt, my preferred mail user agent, integrates with gnupg. Occasionally, I exchange the odd encrypted e-mail with old friends, for fun. > Sorry for asking Don't apologize for asking. We all learn every day, most of it from others who know it already. Some of it, of course, we just make up. Cheers, florin -- Sent from my last battery. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sat Jun 1 11:16:47 2013 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 11:16:47 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] finding max and min without full sort Message-ID: Suppose I have a file with a gazillion lines in it and I want to know which line would come out first if I were to sort the file. It seems that GNU sort does not have that option. Even better would be to have the option to put out the first k sorted lines of an n-line file (you'd get the last k by using the -r option). Here's some info about algorithms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection_algorithm The idea is to *not* do this because of the massive computational demand: sort file | head -$k sort -r file | head -$k That would give the right answer, though. Is there anything that will do this sort of thing? Usually the problem is to sort numbers and maybe awk/gawk will be good for that job: http://www.google.com/search?q=awk+maximum+minimum Maybe that works for non-numeric data, too, so long as only a single column of the input is of interest. It would be good to have it pump out the entire line where the j-th column has the maximum or minimum value. I'm not sure how it would deal with ties -- probably by dropping all but one of them. Anyway, this seems like a missing tool in the GNU coreutils. If only we had one more sort option for doing this. Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sat Jun 1 12:05:22 2013 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 12:05:22 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] line cut: another missing coreutil Message-ID: We have a nice command for cutting columns from data files where we can give it a list of columns to retain by character or field (defined by some delimiter). For example, if I have a tab-delimited file with 164 columns and I want to retain columns 1-6, 15, 19-25, 74-80 and 97-164, I can do it like this: cut -f -6,15,19-25,74-80,97- So GNU cut is good at dealing with fields (columns), but what about records (lines/rows)? What can do this with line numbers? I don't think we have anything. Suppose I have a file with 164 lines and I want to retain lines 1-6, 15, 19-25, 74-80 and 97-164. Now what? It is possible to write something that does this, but isn't there a nice, fast utility written in C, say, that will do this very quickly? One interesting thing I have figured out is that if we use awk or sed for grabbing certain lines by number, it must read the entire file. That can be extremely slow if you only need a few lines from the beginnning of a huge file. It is much faster to use head and tail. Suppose you just want lines 27 to 35, then do this... head -35 file | tail -n+27 ...or this: tail -n+27 file | head -9 The latter method will be a little faster, and it might make a big difference when the first line number is huge, but you have to do some arithmetic to get the number for head. Of course, that head/tail approach would have to be used with each comma-delimited member of the list which is a huge waste of effort compared to what would be done by a program written for this purpose. By the way, if the job is to grab every Nth line, I use awk for that. Here are two examples were I grab every fiftieth line either starting from the 50th line or starting from the first line: $ seq 300 | awk 'NR%50==0' 50 100 150 200 250 300 $ seq 300 | awk 'NR%50==1' 1 51 101 151 201 251 In 1999 I asked some friends on a LUG (MLUG, at U Missouri) about this problem and one of them wrote a perl script. Another suggested some revisions. It seemed like they were going to improve it further but I guess that never happened. It probably works, though, and maybe I should be using it. We were calling it "rowcut". The old MLUG server is down, but here is that old thread: http://genetsim.org/rowcut/ I haven't done any testing. I'm not sure how fast it is or if it needs to read every line of the input (like sed or awk) even if the last line number is small and the file is long. In such cases, use of head to drop the unneeded lines of the file and pipe the useable part to perl would probably be a lot faster. Mike From blawrence at anyontech.net Sat Jun 1 17:07:05 2013 From: blawrence at anyontech.net (Brian Lawrence) Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 17:07:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Computer Shopper collection Message-ID: Cleaning out my basement I came across a complete collection of Computer Shopper magazines from early 1993 to late 2000. I was going to recycle them but thought there might be someone on the list who wanted to look through them first. The articles and the prices are hysterical. They're all in perfect condition so if you're interested let me know. If I don't hear from anyone I'll toss them. Brian From zedlan at invec.net Sat Jun 1 20:15:39 2013 From: zedlan at invec.net (zedlan at invec.net) Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2013 01:15:39 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] line cut: another missing coreutil Message-ID: Here's my script to try: #!/usr/bin/gawk -f # print_ranges.awk # usage: 2nd arg is string enclosed by quotes, like "to-from1 to-from2 ... " # ex: print_ranges file "92-97 5-8 23-42 55-71" BEGIN { range_cnt = split(ARGV[2], ranges, " "); while(getline < ARGV[1]) { line_arr[++n] = $0; } close(ARGV[1]) for(i = 1; i <= range_cnt; i++) { split(ranges[i], start_stop, "-"); start = start_stop[1] stop = start_stop[2] for(j = start; j <= stop; j++) { print line_arr[j]; } print "\n" } } -jack -----Original Message----- From: Mike Miller [mailto:mbmiller+l at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2013 01:05 PM To: 'TCLUG List' Subject: [tclug-list] line cut: another missing coreutil We have a nice command for cutting columns from data files where we can give it a list of columns to retain by character or field (defined by some delimiter). For example, if I have a tab-delimited file with 164 columns and I want to retain columns 1-6, 15, 19-25, 74-80 and 97-164, I can do it like this:cut -f -6,15,19-25,74-80,97-So GNU cut is good at dealing with fields (columns), but what about records (lines/rows)? What can do this with line numbers? I don't think we have anything. Suppose I have a file with 164 lines and I want to retain lines 1-6, 15, 19-25, 74-80 and 97-164. Now what?It is possible to write something that does this, but isn't there a nice, fast utility written in C, say, that will do this very quickly?One interesting thing I have figured out is that if we use awk or sed for grabbing certain lines by number, it must read the entire file. That can be extremely slow if you only need a few lines from the beginnning of a huge file. It is much faster to use head and tail. Suppose you just want lines 27 to 35, then do this...head -35 file | tail -n+27...or this:tail -n+27 file | head -9The latter method will be a little faster, and it might make a big difference when the first line number is huge, but you have to do some arithmetic to get the number for head.Of course, that head/tail approach would have to be used with each comma-delimited member of the list which is a huge waste of effort compared to what would be done by a program written for this purpose.By the way, if the job is to grab every Nth line, I use awk for that. Here are two examples were I grab every fiftieth line either starting from the 50th line or starting from the first line:$ seq 300 | awk 'NR%50==0'50100150200250300$ seq 300 | awk 'NR%50==1'151101151201251In 1999 I asked some friends on a LUG (MLUG, at U Missouri) about this problem and one of them wrote a perl script. Another suggested some revisions. It seemed like they were going to improve it further but I guess that never happened. It probably works, though, and maybe I should be using it. We were calling it "rowcut". The old MLUG server is down, but here is that old thread:http://genetsim.org/rowcut/I haven't done any testing. I'm not sure how fast it is or if it needs to read every line of the input (like sed or awk) even if the last line number is small and the file is long. In such cases, use of head to drop the unneeded lines of the file and pipe the useable part to perl would probably be a lot faster.Mike_______________________________________________TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlunde at gmail.com Sun Jun 2 10:59:11 2013 From: tlunde at gmail.com (T L) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2013 10:59:11 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Do you have extra plenum Ethernet cable in your basement? Message-ID: Hi - I'll bet that at least one person on this list has wired his or her house and now has the remainder of a spool of Ethernet Cat 5e or Cat 6 gathering dust in the basement. If this sounds like you and you'd like to get rid of some or all of the extra cable, please let me know because I need to wire up three rooms on the second story to the basement. So, I'm looking for about 150 or 200 feet of cable and to buy or borrow a tool to use with it. I'll be happy to pay for it, but dropping $175 on a 1000' spool from monoprice would be a waste for what I need. Thanks! Thomas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Sun Jun 2 12:26:11 2013 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2013 12:26:11 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Do you have extra plenum Ethernet cable in your basement? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have a ton of cat5e left over from when I wired my house (10+ years ago), but it's not plenum. On Sun, 2 Jun 2013, T L wrote: > Hi - > I'll bet that at least one person on this list has wired his or her house > and now has the remainder of a spool of Ethernet Cat 5e or Cat 6 gathering > dust in the basement. ? > > > If this sounds like you and you'd like to get rid of some or all of the > extra cable, please let me know because I need to wire up three rooms on the > second story to the basement. ?So, I'm looking for about 150 or 200 feet of > cable and to buy or borrow a tool to use with it. ? > > I'll be happy to pay for it, but dropping $175 on a 1000' spool from > monoprice would be a waste for what I need. ? > > Thanks! > Thomas > > > From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sun Jun 2 12:43:06 2013 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2013 12:43:06 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Computer Shopper collection In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Jun 2013, Brian Lawrence wrote: > Cleaning out my basement I came across a complete collection of Computer > Shopper magazines from early 1993 to late 2000. I was going to recycle > them but thought there might be someone on the list who wanted to look > through them first. The articles and the prices are hysterical. They're > all in perfect condition so if you're interested let me know. If I don't > hear from anyone I'll toss them. This brings to mind a question -- is there a web site that has historical data on computer-related prices? Someone, somewhere, should go to a library and find all the old magazines and construct a long month-by-month record of best prices for a few key items. I know that people love to talk about paying $X for N MB of {HDD,RAM} in 19[89]\d. Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sun Jun 2 16:14:45 2013 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2013 16:14:45 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] line cut: another missing coreutil In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks. Did you try it at all? I tried this: $ seq 10000 | print_ranges.awk - "1-5 55 27" 1 2 3 4 5 Seeing that it ignored the 55 and 27, I tried this: $ seq 10000 | print_ranges.awk - "1-5 55-55 27-27" 1 2 3 4 5 55 27 Pretty close, but it's sending out an extra pair of newlines for every space in the format string. It does seem to be super fast, though, probably faster than the perl scripts I'm testing, which is great. It would be better if the format string used commas instead of spaces and if we could use single numbers in addition to ranges (e.g., 1-5,55,27). It also would be best for the format string to precede the filename, as in cut, and to read from stdin when no filename is given. Another issue is whether it should put out lines in the specified order or in the order from the original file. cut uses the latter method for fields, so 4-5,1-3 does the same thing as 1-5. Being able to reorder the lines is actually a great feature, and it would be nice if cut could do that, too, but it really does only *cut* columns out of a file -- it will not reorder columns. I do use awk for that, but I don't know a good way to specify the column order without typing all of them out, which is way too much work in many cases. Mike On Sun, 2 Jun 2013, zedlan at invec.net wrote: > Here's my script to try: > > > #!/usr/bin/gawk -f > # print_ranges.awk > # usage: 2nd arg is string enclosed by quotes, like "to-from1 to-from2 ... " > # ex: print_ranges file "92-97 5-8 23-42 55-71" > > > BEGIN { > range_cnt = split(ARGV[2], ranges, " "); > > > while(getline < ARGV[1]) { > line_arr[++n] = $0; > } close(ARGV[1]) > > for(i = 1; i <= range_cnt; i++) { > split(ranges[i], start_stop, "-"); > > > start = start_stop[1] > stop = start_stop[2] > > > for(j = start; j <= stop; j++) { > print line_arr[j]; > } > print "\n" > } > } From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sun Jun 2 20:10:01 2013 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2013 20:10:01 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] line cut: another missing coreutil In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Jun 2013, Mike Miller wrote: > Pretty close, but it's sending out an extra pair of newlines for every > space in the format string. It does seem to be super fast, though, > probably faster than the perl scripts I'm testing, which is great. I was able to fix that newline problem. All I had to do was delete one line: 26d25 < print "\n" Another issue is with the way awk and sed handle the data stream -- if they only need to work with the first few lines, they still process the entire file. It would be great if it were possible to tell it to awk to stop with the last requested line. Here's an example where I send 10 million lines to the script. This is how much time it takes just to make all those lines: $ time -p seq 10000000 >/dev/null real 5.11 user 5.11 sys 0.01 Here's how long it takes to process those 10 million lines when only the first 55 lines are needed: $ time -p seq 10000000 | print_ranges.awk - "1-5 55-55 27-27" >/dev/null real 27.01 user 20.36 sys 1.25 But here's how long it takes when I add head -55 to the pipe to drop the unused lines before piping to the awk script: $ time -p seq 10000000 | head -55 | print_ranges.awk - "1-5 55-55 27-27" >/dev/null real 0.05 user 0.01 sys 0.00 My friend's perl script doesn't reorder the lines and it is much slower, but my friend is working on making it stop after the last processed line, and if that succeeds it will be much faster. $ time -p seq 10000000 | ./cutrows_King_1999.pl 1-5,55,27 1 2 3 4 5 27 55 real 56.59 user 59.56 sys 0.07 I probably should try to learn enough perl and awk to understand these scripts more completely. With what I know now, I think I could write a wrapper that reads in a string like -5,55,27 and puts out "1-5 55-55 27-27" but also uses "head -55" to reduce the work load on awk. One thing that I don't know how to do is to make it so that something like 92- gets interpreted like this... 92-$(wc -l file) ...but without having to run wc-l, which could take forever on a very big file, possibly doubling the processing time. I also have to test these things for how well they deal with stuff like 1-10,12-10000000. That is, just dropping one line out of a 10 million line file. Mike From ryanjcole at me.com Sun Jun 2 21:27:34 2013 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2013 21:27:34 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Do you have extra plenum Ethernet cable in your basement? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8B7FB833-A690-4852-BA64-D598C8AD400A@me.com> Do you need plenum? They are only require for air returns used in ceiling spaces. If not PVC is safe(ish) and legal. Plenum is too damn expensive for most home wiring. -- Ryan Coleman ryanjcole at me.com m. 651.373.5015 o. 612.568.2749 On Jun 2, 2013, at 12:26, Yaron wrote: > I have a ton of cat5e left over from when I wired my house (10+ years ago), but it's not plenum. > > On Sun, 2 Jun 2013, T L wrote: > >> Hi - >> I'll bet that at least one person on this list has wired his or her house >> and now has the remainder of a spool of Ethernet Cat 5e or Cat 6 gathering >> dust in the basement. >> If this sounds like you and you'd like to get rid of some or all of the >> extra cable, please let me know because I need to wire up three rooms on the >> second story to the basement. So, I'm looking for about 150 or 200 feet of >> cable and to buy or borrow a tool to use with it. >> I'll be happy to pay for it, but dropping $175 on a 1000' spool from >> monoprice would be a waste for what I need. >> Thanks! >> Thomas > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From pj.world at hotmail.com Sun Jun 2 23:22:07 2013 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (Paul graf) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2013 23:22:07 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Creating a PGP key with Linux In-Reply-To: <20130601061838.GA19193@signbit.net> References: , <20130601043123.GZ19193@signbit.net>, , <20130601061838.GA19193@signbit.net> Message-ID: Thank you and Goodbye I am now done with TCLUG you are all better and smarter than I am. Thank You, Goodbye Sincerly, Paul Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 01:18:38 -0500 From: florin at iucha.net To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Creating a PGP key with Linux On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 11:33:56PM -0500, Paul graf wrote: > But Florin I am the system admin on this machine here at home Oh, that is a different matter altogether. Yaron was quite correct in describing it as a lot of pain. If you _really_ need it, it might be easier to contract with a provider that offers secured imap and smtp access, so you can use a desktop client that integrates gnupg, PGP or S-Mime. > you have a GPG key in your emails. Yes, I do - an old habit, abided by the ease with which mutt, my preferred mail user agent, integrates with gnupg. Occasionally, I exchange the odd encrypted e-mail with old friends, for fun. > Sorry for asking Don't apologize for asking. We all learn every day, most of it from others who know it already. Some of it, of course, we just make up. Cheers, florin -- Sent from my last battery. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zedlan at invec.net Mon Jun 3 00:02:46 2013 From: zedlan at invec.net (zedlan at invec.net) Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 05:02:46 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] line cut: another missing coreutil Message-ID: Mike, I made a few changes to the script per your request: #!/usr/bin/gawk -f # print_ranges.awk # usage: takes csv arg string to-from1,to-from2, ... # ex: cat file | print_ranges.awk 92-97,5-8,23-42,55-71 BEGIN { range_cnt = split(ARGV[1], ranges, ","); while(getline < "-") { line_arr[++n] = $0; } close("-") for(i = 1; i <= range_cnt; i++) { num = split(ranges[i], start_stop, "-"); if(num == 1) { start = ranges[i]; stop = start; } else { start = start_stop[1] stop = start_stop[2] } for(j = start; j <= stop; j++) { print line_arr[j]; } } } -----Original Message----- From: Mike Miller [mailto:mbmiller+l at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2013 05:14 PM To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' Subject: Re: [tclug-list] line cut: another missing coreutil Thanks. Did you try it at all? I tried this:$ seq 10000 | print_ranges.awk - "1-5 55 27"12345Seeing that it ignored the 55 and 27, I tried this:$ seq 10000 | print_ranges.awk - "1-5 55-55 27-27"123455527Pretty close, but it's sending out an extra pair of newlines for every space in the format string. It does seem to be super fast, though, probably faster than the perl scripts I'm testing, which is great.It would be better if the format string used commas instead of spaces and if we could use single numbers in addition to ranges (e.g., 1-5,55,27). It also would be best for the format string to precede the filename, as in cut, and to read from stdin when no filename is given.Another issue is whether it should put out lines in the specified order or in the order from the original file. cut uses the latter method for fields, so 4-5,1-3 does the same thing as 1-5. Being able to reorder the lines is actually a great feature, and it would be nice if cut could do that, too, but it really does only *cut* columns out of a file -- it will not reorder columns. I do use awk for that, but I don't know a good way to specify the column order without typing all of them out, which is way too much work in many cases.MikeOn Sun, 2 Jun 2013, zedlan at invec.net wrote:> Here's my script to try:>>> #!/usr/bin/gawk -f> # print_ranges.awk> # usage: 2nd arg is string enclosed by quotes, like "to-from1 to-from2 ... "> # ex: print_ranges file "92-97 5-8 23-42 55-71">>> BEGIN {> range_cnt = split(ARGV[2], ranges, " ");>>> while(getline < ARGV[1]) {> line_arr[++n] = $0;> } close(ARGV[1])>> for(i = 1; i <= range_cnt; i++) {> split(ranges[i], start_stop, "-");>>> start = start_stop[1]> stop = start_stop[2]>>> for(j = start; j <= stop; j++) {> print line_arr[j];> }> print "\n"> }> }_______________________________________________TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Jun 3 03:53:31 2013 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 03:53:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] line cut: another missing coreutil In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks, Jack. Now the cut-like list of lines will work: seq 10000000 | print_ranges.awk 1-5,55,27 One big problem is that in this example your script uses about 1.9 GB of memory and takes 20 seconds when the memory is immediately available. My friend's perl script uses 0.002 GB of memory and uses 0 seconds. The only difference is that it does not reorder the lines. When the last line of the 10 million input lines is in the output, then the perl script is slower, taking about a minute, but still only using 0.002 GB memory. Your script takes the same amount of time and uses the same amount of memory whether it has to read to the end or not. Thus both these use 1.8 GB of RAM and take 20 seconds: seq 10000000 | print_ranges.awk 1 seq 10000000 | print_ranges.awk 10000000 The perl script finishes the first one almost instantly but it takes longer than the awk script on the second one, though it uses minimal memory. Mike On Mon, 3 Jun 2013, zedlan at invec.net wrote: > Mike, > > > I made a few changes to the script per your request: > > > #!/usr/bin/gawk -f > > > # print_ranges.awk > # usage: takes csv arg string to-from1,to-from2, ... > # ex: cat file | print_ranges.awk 92-97,5-8,23-42,55-71 > > > BEGIN { > range_cnt = split(ARGV[1], ranges, ","); > > > while(getline < "-") { > line_arr[++n] = $0; > } close("-") > > > for(i = 1; i <= range_cnt; i++) { > num = split(ranges[i], start_stop, "-"); > > if(num == 1) { > start = ranges[i]; > stop = start; > } else { > start = start_stop[1] > stop = start_stop[2] > } > > > for(j = start; j <= stop; j++) { > print line_arr[j]; > } > } > } From zedlan at invec.net Mon Jun 3 20:40:52 2013 From: zedlan at invec.net (zedlan at invec.net) Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2013 01:40:52 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] line cut: another missing coreutil Message-ID: Mike -- try this: #!/usr/bin/gawk -f # print_ranges.awk # usage: print_ranges.awk file rows cols field-separator # ex: print_ranges.awk file 92-97,5-8,23-42,55-71 2,3,5 , BEGIN { OFS= "" ORS = "" FS = "" arg_sep = "," file = ARGV[1]; range_cnt = split(ARGV[2], ranges, arg_sep); choice_cnt = split(ARGV[3], col_choice, arg_sep); col_sep = ARGV[4] for(i = 1; i <= range_cnt; i++) { num = split(ranges[i], start_stop, "-"); n = 0; start = ranges[i]; stop = start; if (num > 1) { start = start_stop[1] stop = start_stop[2] } while(getline < file) { n++; if(n >= start && n <= stop) { cc_cnt = split($0, cc_arr, col_sep); for(j = 1; j <= cc_cnt; j++) { for(k = 1; k <= choice_cnt; k++) { if(j == col_choice[k]) { print cc_arr[j] if(k < choice_cnt) { print col_sep } } } } print "\n" } } close(file) } } jack -----Original Message----- From: Mike Miller [mailto:mbmiller+l at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 04:53 AM To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' Subject: Re: [tclug-list] line cut: another missing coreutil Thanks, Jack. Now the cut-like list of lines will work:seq 10000000 | print_ranges.awk 1-5,55,27One big problem is that in this example your script uses about 1.9 GB of memory and takes 20 seconds when the memory is immediately available. My friend's perl script uses 0.002 GB of memory and uses 0 seconds. The only difference is that it does not reorder the lines. When the last line of the 10 million input lines is in the output, then the perl script is slower, taking about a minute, but still only using 0.002 GB memory. Your script takes the same amount of time and uses the same amount of memory whether it has to read to the end or not. Thus both these use 1.8 GB of RAM and take 20 seconds:seq 10000000 | print_ranges.awk 1seq 10000000 | print_ranges.awk 10000000The perl script finishes the first one almost instantly but it takes longer than the awk script on the second one, though it uses minimal memory.MikeOn Mon, 3 Jun 2013, zedlan at invec.net wrote:> Mike,>>> I made a few changes to the script per your request:>>> #!/usr/bin/gawk -f>>> # print_ranges.awk> # usage: takes csv arg string to-from1,to-from2, ...> # ex: cat file | print_ranges.awk 92-97,5-8,23-42,55-71>>> BEGIN {> range_cnt = split(ARGV[1], ranges, ",");>>> while(getline < "-") {> line_arr[++n] = $0;> } close("-")>>> for(i = 1; i <= range_cnt; i++) {> num = split(ranges[i], start_stop, "-");>> if(num == 1) {> start = ranges[i];> stop = start;> } else {> start = start_stop[1]> stop = start_stop[2]> }>>> for(j = start; j <= stop; j++) {> print line_arr[j];> }> }> }_______________________________________________TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Jun 4 00:48:10 2013 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 00:48:10 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] line cut: another missing coreutil In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'll make data like so with a comma delimiter: $ seq 100 | paste -d, - - | paste -d, - - - - - 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30 31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40 41,42,43,44,45,46,47,48,49,50 51,52,53,54,55,56,57,58,59,60 61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,69,70 71,72,73,74,75,76,77,78,79,80 81,82,83,84,85,86,87,88,89,90 91,92,93,94,95,96,97,98,99,100 It isn't handling multiple output lines correctly: $ seq 100 | paste -d, - - | paste -d, - - - - - | print_ranges.awk - 3,4 1,2 , 21,22 $ seq 100 | paste -d, - - | paste -d, - - - - - | print_ranges.awk - 3 1,2 , 21,22 It does do it correctly when I use the minus unstead of the comma: $ seq 100 | paste -d, - - | paste -d, - - - - - | print_ranges.awk - 3-4 1,2 , 21,22 31,32 Now to try it with a tab delimiter: $ seq 100 | paste - - | paste - - - - - | print_ranges.awk - 3-4 1,2 " " 21 22 31 32 It would be cool to be able to use the \t syntax to specify the tab delimiter, and it almost works: $ seq 100 | paste - - | paste - - - - - | print_ranges.awk - 3-4 1,2 "\t" 21\t22 31\t32 Thanks, Jack. That's a cool idea. Mike On Tue, 4 Jun 2013, zedlan at invec.net wrote: > Mike -- try this: > > > #!/usr/bin/gawk -f > > > # print_ranges.awk > # usage: print_ranges.awk file rows cols field-separator > # ex: print_ranges.awk file 92-97,5-8,23-42,55-71 2,3,5 , > > > > BEGIN { > OFS= "" > ORS = "" > FS = "" > arg_sep = "," > > file = ARGV[1]; > range_cnt = split(ARGV[2], ranges, arg_sep); > choice_cnt = split(ARGV[3], col_choice, arg_sep); > col_sep = ARGV[4] > > > for(i = 1; i <= range_cnt; i++) { > num = split(ranges[i], start_stop, "-"); > n = 0; > start = ranges[i]; > stop = start; > > > if (num > 1) { > start = start_stop[1] > stop = start_stop[2] > } > > > while(getline < file) { > n++; > if(n >= start && n <= stop) { > cc_cnt = split($0, cc_arr, col_sep); > > > for(j = 1; j <= cc_cnt; j++) { > for(k = 1; k <= choice_cnt; k++) { > if(j == col_choice[k]) { > print cc_arr[j] > if(k < choice_cnt) { print col_sep } > } > } > } > print "\n" > } > } close(file) > } > } > > > > > jack > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Miller [mailto:mbmiller+l at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 04:53 AM > To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] line cut: another missing coreutil > > Thanks, Jack. Now the cut-like list of lines will work:seq 10000000 | print_ranges.awk 1-5,55,27One big problem is that in this example your script uses about 1.9 GB of memory and takes 20 seconds when the memory is immediately available. My friend's perl script uses 0.002 GB of memory and uses 0 seconds. The only difference is that it does not reorder the lines. When the last line of the 10 million input lines is in the output, then the perl script is slower, taking about a minute, but still only using 0.002 GB memory. Your script takes the same amount of time and uses the same amount of memory whether it has to read to the end or not. Thus both these use 1.8 GB of RAM and take 20 seconds:seq 10000000 | print_ranges.awk 1seq 10000000 | print_ranges.awk 10000000The perl script finishes the first one almost instantly but it takes longer than the awk script on the second one, though it uses minimal memory.MikeOn Mon, 3 Jun 2013, zedlan at invec.net wrote:> Mike,>>> I made a few changes to the script per your request:>>> #!/usr/bin/gawk -f>>> # print_ranges.awk> # usage: takes csv arg string to-from1,to-from2, ...> # ex: cat file | print_ranges.awk 92-97,5-8,23-42,55-71>>> BEGIN {> range_cnt = split(ARGV[1], ranges, ",");>>> while(getline < "-") {> line_arr[++n] = $0;> } close("-")>>> for(i = 1; i <= range_cnt; i++) {> num = split(ranges[i], start_stop, "-");>> if(num == 1) {> start = ranges[i];> stop = start;> } else {> start = start_stop[1]> stop = start_stop[2]> }>>> for(j = start; j <= stop; j++) {> print line_arr[j];> }> }> }_______________________________________________TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Tue Jun 4 08:56:54 2013 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (B-o-B De Mars) Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2013 08:56:54 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Centos - KVM + LACP (Mode 4 bonding) + Bridge Message-ID: <51ADF226.1080302@gmail.com> I was wondering if anyone has any experience with setting up LACP (802.3ad dynamic link aggregation) & a bridge for use with KVM. I have a HP ML370 with 2 x gigabit nics that I installed Centos 6.4 & KVM (virgin run with KVM). To keep it simple I just configured 1 nic, and setup a bridge (as the docs recommended). This setup worked fine, and I am using QEMU on a separate Slackware box to admin the guests. I was able to access the host & the guests no problem. I would like to take advantage of both nics on the server & would like to setup LACP (bonding mode 4) + the Bridge. I am no stranger to LACP, and all my servers with more than 2 nics are setup this way. No problem. The problem I am having is getting the bonded links to work with the bridge. Does anyone know how to do this? I currently have the bond 4 working, and can confirm on the switch that LACP partnership is active & up. I cannot ping/access the guests anymore, and the guests (using the bridge) cannot access anything. Here are my config files: ifcfg-eth0 DEVICE=eth0 BOOTPROTO=none ONBOOT=yes MASTER=bond0 SLAVE=yes USERCTL=no ifcfg-eth1 DEVICE=eth1 BOOTPROTO=none ONBOOT=yes MASTER=bond0 SLAVE=yes USERCTL=no ifcfg-bond0 DEVICE=bond0 USERCTL=no BOOTPROTO=none ONBOOT=yes BONDING_OPTS="miimon=100 mode=4" IPV6INIT=no IPADDR=192.168.12.240 NETMASK=255.255.255.0 GATEWAY=192.168.12.1 DNS1=192.168.12.35 Up to this point bonding works, I can ping the host, and the host can access outbound. When I originally configged the KVM bridge I called it br0, so I would like to keep this name so I don't have to redo everything. Some of the docs online mention I need to setup a tagged vlan on the switch for this config. Is this true, do I really need a vlan? I did setup a tagged vlan (vlan11), and added the following ifcfg files, but no dice. ifcfg-bond0.11 DEVICE=bond0.11 ONBOOT=yes BRIDGE=br0 VLAN=yes ifcfg-br0 DEVICE="br0" NM_CONTROLLED="yes" ONBOOT=yes TYPE=Bridge BOOTPROTO=none NAME="System br0" IPADDR=192.168.12.240 NETMASK=255.255.255.0 GATEWAY=192.168.12.1 DNS1=192.168.12.35 VLAN=yes STP=on So, do I really need a vlan setup on the switch for this config? If not I suppose I can ditch the ifcfg-bond0.11 config file, and remove the tagged vlan from the switch? If this is the case, can I simply add BRIDGE=br0 to the bond0 config, and remove the VLAN & STP from the br0 config? Any insight on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Mr. B-o-B From zedlan at invec.net Tue Jun 4 09:25:29 2013 From: zedlan at invec.net (zedlan at invec.net) Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2013 14:25:29 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] line cut: another missing coreutil Message-ID: Mike ... It handles files fine, just not piped input. This works: seq 1000 | paste -d, - - | paste -d, > tmp ./print_ranges.awk tmp 3,4 1,2 , 5,6 7,8 Maybe this utility deserves a re-write in a strict language, say C or D ... another day. jack -----Original Message----- From: Mike Miller [mailto:mbmiller+l at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 01:48 AM To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' Subject: Re: [tclug-list] line cut: another missing coreutil I'll make data like so with a comma delimiter:$ seq 100 | paste -d, - - | paste -d, - - - - -1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1011,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,2021,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,3031,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,4041,42,43,44,45,46,47,48,49,5051,52,53,54,55,56,57,58,59,6061,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,69,7071,72,73,74,75,76,77,78,79,8081,82,83,84,85,86,87,88,89,9091,92,93,94,95,96,97,98,99,100It isn't handling multiple output lines correctly:$ seq 100 | paste -d, - - | paste -d, - - - - - | print_ranges.awk - 3,4 1,2 ,21,22$ seq 100 | paste -d, - - | paste -d, - - - - - | print_ranges.awk - 3 1,2 ,21,22It does do it correctly when I use the minus unstead of the comma:$ seq 100 | paste -d, - - | paste -d, - - - - - | print_ranges.awk - 3-4 1,2 ,21,2231,32Now to try it with a tab delimiter:$ seq 100 | paste - - | paste - - - - - | print_ranges.awk - 3-4 1,2 " "21 2231 32It would be cool to be able to use the \t syntax to specify the tab delimiter, and it almost works:$ seq 100 | paste - - | paste - - - - - | print_ranges.awk - 3-4 1,2 "\t"21\t2231\t32Thanks, Jack. That's a cool idea.MikeOn Tue, 4 Jun 2013, zedlan at invec.net wrote:> Mike -- try this:>>> #!/usr/bin/gawk -f>>> # print_ranges.awk> # usage: print_ranges.awk file rows cols field-separator> # ex: print_ranges.awk file 92-97,5-8,23-42,55-71 2,3,5 ,>>>> BEGIN {> OFS= ""> ORS = ""> FS = ""> arg_sep = ",">> file = ARGV[1];> range_cnt = split(ARGV[2], ranges, arg_sep);> choice_cnt = split(ARGV[3], col_choice, arg_sep);> col_sep = ARGV[4]>>> for(i = 1; i <= range_cnt; i++) {> num = split(ranges[i], start_stop, "-");> n = 0;> start = ranges[i];> stop = start;>>> if (num > 1) {> start = start_stop[1]> stop = start_stop[2]> }>>> while(getline < file) {> n++;> if(n >= start && n <= stop) {> cc_cnt = split($0, cc_arr, col_sep);>>> for(j = 1; j <= cc_cnt; j++) {> for(k = 1; k <= choice_cnt; k++) {> if(j == col_choice[k]) {> print cc_arr[j]> if(k < choice_cnt) { print col_sep }> }> }> }> print "\n"> }> } close(file)> }> }>>>>> jack>>>> -----Original Message-----> From: Mike Miller [mailto:mbmiller+l at gmail.com]> Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 04:53 AM> To: 'TCLUG Mailing List'> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] line cut: another missing coreutil>> Thanks, Jack. Now the cut-like list of lines will work:seq 10000000 | print_ranges.awk 1-5,55,27One big problem is that in this example your script uses about 1.9 GB of memory and takes 20 seconds when the memory is immediately available. My friend's perl script uses 0.002 GB of memory and uses 0 seconds. The only difference is that it does not reorder the lines. When the last line of the 10 million input lines is in the output, then the perl script is slower, taking about a minute, but still only using 0.002 GB memory. Your script takes the same amount of time and uses the same amount of memory whether it has to read to the end or not. Thus both these use 1.8 GB of RAM and take 20 seconds:seq 10000000 | print_ranges.awk 1seq 10000000 | print_ranges.awk 10000000The perl script finishes the first one almost instantly but it takes longer than the awk script on the second one, though it uses minimal memory.MikeOn Mon, 3 Jun 2013, zedlan at invec.net wrote:> Mike,>>> I made a few changes to the script per your request:>>> #!/usr/bin/gawk -f>>> # print_ranges.awk> # usage: takes csv arg string to-from1,to-from2, ...> # ex: cat file | print_ranges.awk 92-97,5-8,23-42,55-71>>> BEGIN {> range_cnt = split(ARGV[1], ranges, ",");>>> while(getline < "-") {> line_arr[++n] = $0;> } close("-")>>> for(i = 1; i <= range_cnt; i++) {> num = split(ranges[i], start_stop, "-");>> if(num == 1) {> start = ranges[i];> stop = start;> } else {> start = start_stop[1]> stop = start_stop[2]> }>>> for(j = start; j <= stop; j++) {> print line_arr[j];> }> }> }_______________________________________________TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kc0iog at gmail.com Tue Jun 4 11:50:01 2013 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 11:50:01 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Centos - KVM + LACP (Mode 4 bonding) + Bridge In-Reply-To: <51ADF226.1080302@gmail.com> References: <51ADF226.1080302@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 8:56 AM, B-o-B De Mars wrote: > I would like to take advantage of both nics on the server & would like to > setup LACP (bonding mode 4) + the Bridge. I am no stranger to LACP, and all > my servers with more than 2 nics are setup this way. No problem. That should work well. > The problem I am having is getting the bonded links to work with the bridge. > Does anyone know how to do this? I currently have the bond 4 working, and > can confirm on the switch that LACP partnership is active & up. I cannot > ping/access the guests anymore, and the guests (using the bridge) cannot > access anything. Sounds like the bridge is misconfigured. > ifcfg-bond0 > DEVICE=bond0 > USERCTL=no > BOOTPROTO=none > ONBOOT=yes > BONDING_OPTS="miimon=100 mode=4" > IPV6INIT=no > IPADDR=192.168.12.240 > NETMASK=255.255.255.0 > GATEWAY=192.168.12.1 > DNS1=192.168.12.35 > > Up to this point bonding works, I can ping the host, and the host can access > outbound. It's been awhile since I set up KVM bridging, but it looks like you're awfully close. I think what you need to do is configure the KVM bridge to use bond0 as its one and only interface. Leave bond0 as a layer 2 interface and add the IP to br0 once br0 is configured against bond0. > Some of the docs online mention I need to setup a tagged vlan on the switch > for this config. Is this true, do I really need a vlan? I doubt it. Typically LACP is set up for trunking, hence you would be running multiple VLANs across the aggregate. By the sounds of it, you are not using any VLAN trunking (just an access port) so that wouldn't apply. Good luck, Brian From john.meier at gmail.com Tue Jun 4 14:21:03 2013 From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 14:21:03 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Communication Rack needs Message-ID: Hi all - Anyone have any communication rack shelves or a punch down panel gathering dust? I have a buddy who's small office is in need of some IT organization and thought a nice rack/shelf setup would be a good start. Thanks john -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Tue Jun 4 14:55:24 2013 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (B-o-B De Mars) Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2013 14:55:24 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Communication Rack needs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51AE462C.2010306@gmail.com> On 6/4/2013 2:21 PM, John Meier wrote:: > Hi all - > > Anyone have any communication rack shelves or a punch down panel > gathering dust? I have a buddy who's small office is in need of some IT > organization and thought a nice rack/shelf setup would be a good start. > I do. For 19" racks. You are more then welcome to have one. You can email me off list if you want one. Thanks! Mr. B-o-B From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Tue Jun 4 15:11:11 2013 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (B-o-B De Mars) Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2013 15:11:11 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Centos - KVM + LACP (Mode 4 bonding) + Bridge In-Reply-To: References: <51ADF226.1080302@gmail.com> Message-ID: <51AE49DF.5050704@gmail.com> On 6/4/2013 11:50 AM, Brian Wall wrote:: Thanks Brian! I was able to get it working. > Sounds like the bridge is misconfigured. This was the problem. > It's been awhile since I set up KVM bridging, but it looks like you're > awfully close. I think what you need to do is configure the KVM > bridge to use bond0 as its one and only interface. Leave bond0 as a > layer 2 interface and add the IP to br0 once br0 is configured against > bond0. Layer 2 did the trick, and adding the BRIDGE setting to the bond0 config. > I doubt it. Typically LACP is set up for trunking, hence you would be > running multiple VLANs across the aggregate. By the sounds of it, you > are not using any VLAN trunking (just an access port) so that wouldn't > apply. Agreed. I deleted the vlan from the switch, and removed all VLAN references from the config files. It ended up being extremely easy. I think I was just over thinking things (plus the lack of decent documentation for this setup). Here are the config files for the LACP (2 nics) + Bridge setup for KVM in case anyone else needs help with this type of setup (Centos). ifcfg-eth0 DEVICE=eth0 BOOTPROTO=none ONBOOT=yes MASTER=bond0 SLAVE=yes USERCTL=no ifcfg-eth1 DEVICE=eth1 BOOTPROTO=none ONBOOT=yes MASTER=bond0 SLAVE=yes USERCTL=no ifcfg-bond0 DEVICE=bond0 USERCTL=no BOOTPROTO=none ONBOOT=yes BONDING_OPTS="miimon=100 mode=4" BRIDGE=br0 ifcfg-br0 DEVICE="br0" NM_CONTROLLED="yes" ONBOOT=yes TYPE=Bridge BOOTPROTO=none IPADDR=192.168.12.240 PREFIX=24 GATEWAY=192.168.12.1 DNS1=192.168.12.35 DNS2=192.168.11.10 DEFROUTE=yes IPV4_FAILURE_FATAL=yes IPV6INIT=no NAME="System br0" Restarted the network: Bringing up loopback interface: [ OK ] Bringing up interface bond0: [ OK ] Bringing up interface br0: [ OK ] Check the switch to make sure LACP still active: PORT LACP TRUNK PORT LACP LACP NUMB ENABLED GROUP STATUS PARTNER STATUS ---- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- 3 Active Trk9 Up Yes Success 4 Active Trk9 Up Yes Success Was able to ping the host & guests again. Fantastic! Have a great day everyone! Mr. B-o-B From ryanjcole at me.com Tue Jun 4 19:16:12 2013 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2013 19:16:12 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT - under cabinet HD Radio for kitchen? Message-ID: <0B931FA5-4DD2-40B7-92E0-E40D82229783@me.com> I find this product VERY hard to find. I want a radio in my kitchen that has HD capabilities. Every "successful" web search finds a TV but it doesn't have HD capabilities. If I can find an HD radio for my car for less than 75$ why can't I find a kitchen radio? Does anyone know of a manufacturer or part number to search for? Many, many thanks in advance! From ryanjcole at me.com Tue Jun 4 18:37:17 2013 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2013 18:37:17 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Communication Rack needs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51AE7A2D.5000006@me.com> I'd also be interested - I might be a little pickier as I am looking for a four-post rack (even a half-height) to do my servers and switches at home. On 6/4/2013 2:21 PM, John Meier wrote: > Hi all - > > Anyone have any communication rack shelves or a punch down panel > gathering dust? I have a buddy who's small office is in need of some > IT organization and thought a nice rack/shelf setup would be a good start. > > Thanks > john > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jus at krytosvirus.com Tue Jun 4 20:49:26 2013 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2013 20:49:26 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Centos - KVM + LACP (Mode 4 bonding) + Bridge Message-ID: +1 to a very successful open and shut case of the local community helping the local community with the appropriate result of the OP giving the final rundown of the working solution.? I obviously have nothing cogent to add to this thread otherwise, just happy thoughts. -------- Original message -------- From: B-o-B De Mars Date: To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Centos - KVM + LACP (Mode 4 bonding) + Bridge On 6/4/2013 11:50 AM, Brian Wall wrote:: Thanks Brian!? I was able to get it working. > Sounds like the bridge is misconfigured. This was the problem. > It's been awhile since I set up KVM bridging, but it looks like you're > awfully close.? I think what you need to do is configure the KVM > bridge to use bond0 as its one and only interface.? Leave bond0 as a > layer 2 interface and add the IP to br0 once br0 is configured against > bond0. Layer 2 did the trick, and adding the BRIDGE setting to the bond0 config. > I doubt it.? Typically LACP is set up for trunking, hence you would be > running multiple VLANs across the aggregate.? By the sounds of it, you > are not using any VLAN trunking (just an access port) so that wouldn't > apply. Agreed.? I deleted the vlan from the switch, and removed all VLAN references from the config files.? It ended up being extremely easy.? I think I was just over thinking things (plus the lack of decent documentation for this setup). Here are the config files for the LACP (2 nics) + Bridge setup for KVM in case anyone else needs help with this type of setup (Centos). ifcfg-eth0 DEVICE=eth0 BOOTPROTO=none ONBOOT=yes MASTER=bond0 SLAVE=yes USERCTL=no ifcfg-eth1 DEVICE=eth1 BOOTPROTO=none ONBOOT=yes MASTER=bond0 SLAVE=yes USERCTL=no ifcfg-bond0 DEVICE=bond0 USERCTL=no BOOTPROTO=none ONBOOT=yes BONDING_OPTS="miimon=100 mode=4" BRIDGE=br0 ifcfg-br0 DEVICE="br0" NM_CONTROLLED="yes" ONBOOT=yes TYPE=Bridge BOOTPROTO=none IPADDR=192.168.12.240 PREFIX=24 GATEWAY=192.168.12.1 DNS1=192.168.12.35 DNS2=192.168.11.10 DEFROUTE=yes IPV4_FAILURE_FATAL=yes IPV6INIT=no NAME="System br0" Restarted the network: Bringing up loopback interface:??????????????????????????? [? OK? ] Bringing up interface bond0:?????????????????????????????? [? OK? ] Bringing up interface br0:???????????????????????????????? [? OK? ] Check the switch to make sure LACP still active: PORT?? LACP????? TRUNK???? PORT????? LACP????? LACP NUMB?? ENABLED?? GROUP???? STATUS??? PARTNER?? STATUS ----?? -------?? -------?? -------?? -------?? ------- 3????? Active??? Trk9????? Up??????? Yes?????? Success 4????? Active??? Trk9????? Up??????? Yes?????? Success Was able to ping the host & guests again.? Fantastic! Have a great day everyone! Mr. B-o-B _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jus at krytosvirus.com Tue Jun 4 21:11:48 2013 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2013 21:11:48 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Mint Linux 15 Message-ID: Anyone out there using Mint 15 desktop? I repartitioned one of my hard drives of my primary desktop, a desktop that I have spent a great deal of time customizing over the years running Ubuntu 10.10, which was tough with three large high resolution monitors.? I made a couple of partitions actually, one for Ubuntu 13.04 and one for Mint 15. I still can't stand unity and am utterly disappointed by it. Giving Mint 15 a go has been pretty decent with MATE though I still prefer my original gnome2 desktop, I'd like to hear if anyone has any comments or thoughts on MATE or Mint in general. I'd like to give Cinnamon a go as well but just have not had the time lately. As I am still trying to figure out how, if possible, to replicate certain desktop experiences I've customized with my old gnome2 setup, I will reserve my primary criticisms of MATE's shortcomings until I am convinced that they're not just my ignorance. The overall experience is very similar (compatible) so I am seriously considering moving to it as my primary desktop replacement. On a side note, I've been using Mint 14 (MATE) on my primary laptop and that has been a very good experience, though by comparison it is a much simpler setup and I have less stringent requirements for it. I will say that it was my first foray into using Virtual Box, having come from a heavy VMware background, and it works brilliantly for my meager needs.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuporglue at gmail.com Tue Jun 4 23:05:35 2013 From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 23:05:35 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Mint Linux 15 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 9:11 PM, Justin Krejci wrote: > Anyone out there using Mint 15 desktop? > Giving Mint 15 a go has been pretty decent with MATE though I still prefer my > original gnome2 desktop, I'd like to hear if anyone has any comments or > thoughts on MATE or Mint in general. > > As I am still trying to figure out how, if possible, to replicate certain > desktop experiences I've customized with my old gnome2 setup, I'm using Mate 1.6.0 on Debian, which I think is the same version as on Mint 15. Is there anything specific you wanted to customize? My configuration is pretty close to the default, but I'd be happy to try a few things for you. I like Mate pretty well, but I think it's a stopgap measure until either Gnome3 gets through its growing pains or until I take the time to learn a new WM. I didn't like Gnome3 or Unity when they came out, and haven't tried them since. I tried switching over to XFCE but window behavior and the docks were different enough from Gnome2 that I didn't want to take the time to customize them at the time. I can't remember the specifics, I think it had to do with alt+right-click resizing and alt+left-click window moving not working or something petty. -- Michael Moore From chrome at real-time.com Wed Jun 5 08:23:22 2013 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2013 09:23:22 -0400 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Communication Rack needs In-Reply-To: <51AE7A2D.5000006@me.com> References: <51AE7A2D.5000006@me.com> Message-ID: <20130605132322.GC665@real-time.com> On 06/04 06:37 , Ryan Coleman wrote: > I'd also be interested - I might be a little pickier as I am looking > for a four-post rack (even a half-height) to do my servers and > switches at home. I have a half-height 4-post cabinet with side covers and doors, which you can pretty much have for the trouble of taking it away. Donating some money (like $20 or a pizza gift certificate) to the person who's storing it right now, in exchange for showing it to you and storing it for me, would be appreciated tho. Write me for details. I don't have pictures, nor can I take them since I'm not in the Twin Cities area for the next couple of months. -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From tclug at mikerochford.com Thu Jun 6 11:05:24 2013 From: tclug at mikerochford.com (Mike Rochford) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2013 11:05:24 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] APC MasterSwitches Message-ID: Anyone interest in these two master switches? I am moving and these need to go. If you dont know what these are you are missing out. Would be great to have your cable/DSL modem and/or router hooked up to for remote power cycles. [image: Inline image 1] Looking to get $50 for each switch. Willing to meet in SW metro or during the week in Eagan. -Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 20130606-0.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 96134 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tclug at mikerochford.com Thu Jun 6 13:15:50 2013 From: tclug at mikerochford.com (Mike Rochford) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2013 13:15:50 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cisco VOIP 7941G Message-ID: Sorry I dont keep meaning to spam the list. I just keep finding stuff to get rid of. I also have a POE injector for this phone. The phones config is completely blank (ie waiting for dhcp/tftp). Looking to get $50 bucks. -Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trieff at greencaremankato.com Thu Jun 6 13:27:32 2013 From: trieff at greencaremankato.com (Thomas Rieff) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2013 13:27:32 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] FD0 Read Error In-Reply-To: <756239549.630464.1370543025222.JavaMail.root@greencaremankato.com> Message-ID: <1739249093.630777.1370543252293.JavaMail.root@greencaremankato.com> I while back I updated this server and it will not boot now. Has fd0 read error. It has 2-500 gig drives in Raid configuration. It boots to the error, then the grub screen shows and then the screen goes blank. Live cd works fine. Trying to do a boot repair, but not getting there??? Any thoughts??? Tom Thomas Rieff GreenCare 1717 3rd Avenue Mankato, MN 56001 (507) 344-8314 Office (507) 344-8316 Fax (507) 381-0660 Cell Boot Info Script e7fc706 + Boot-Repair extra info [Boot-Info 3June2013] ============================= Boot Info Summary: =============================== => Grub2 (v1.99) is installed in the MBR of /dev/sda and looks at sector 1 of the same hard drive for core.img. core.img is at this location and looks for (mduuid/41b95a902e09f153fd8b08d1685c0de9)/boot/grub on this drive. => Grub2 (v1.99) is installed in the MBR of /dev/sdb and looks at sector 1 of the same hard drive for core.img. core.img is at this location and looks for (mduuid/41b95a902e09f153fd8b08d1685c0de9)/boot/grub on this drive. sda1: __________________________________________________________________________ File system: linux_raid_member Boot sector type: - Boot sector info: sda2: __________________________________________________________________________ File system: linux_raid_member Boot sector type: Unknown Boot sector info: sdb1: __________________________________________________________________________ File system: linux_raid_member Boot sector type: - Boot sector info: sdb2: __________________________________________________________________________ File system: linux_raid_member Boot sector type: Unknown Boot sector info: ============================ Drive/Partition Info: ============================= Drive: sda _____________________________________________________________________ Disk /dev/sda: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders, total 976773168 sectors Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Partition Boot Start Sector End Sector # of Sectors Id System /dev/sda1 2,048 31,250,431 31,248,384 fd Linux raid autodetect /dev/sda2 * 31,250,432 976,771,071 945,520,640 fd Linux raid autodetect Drive: sdb _____________________________________________________________________ Disk /dev/sdb: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders, total 976773168 sectors Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Partition Boot Start Sector End Sector # of Sectors Id System /dev/sdb1 2,048 31,250,431 31,248,384 fd Linux raid autodetect /dev/sdb2 * 31,250,432 976,771,071 945,520,640 fd Linux raid autodetect "blkid" output: ________________________________________________________________ Device UUID TYPE LABEL /dev/loop0 squashfs /dev/sda1 aebdec1e-488b-5a7b-59f4-3fedeb500c04 linux_raid_member gc30:0 /dev/sda2 41b95a90-2e09-f153-fd8b-08d1685c0de9 linux_raid_member gc30:1 /dev/sdb1 aebdec1e-488b-5a7b-59f4-3fedeb500c04 linux_raid_member gc30:0 /dev/sdb2 41b95a90-2e09-f153-fd8b-08d1685c0de9 linux_raid_member gc30:1 /dev/sr0 iso9660 Ubuntu 12.04.1 LTS i386 ================================ Mount points: ================================= Device Mount_Point Type Options /dev/loop0 /rofs squashfs (ro,noatime) /dev/sr0 /cdrom iso9660 (ro,noatime) ======================== Unknown MBRs/Boot Sectors/etc: ======================== Unknown BootLoader on sda2 00000000 72 65 64 20 69 6e 20 75 70 64 61 74 65 42 79 43 |red in updateByC| 00000010 6f 6e 64 69 74 69 6f 6e 20 28 55 6e 61 62 6c 65 |ondition (Unable| 00000020 20 74 6f 20 65 73 61 62 6c 69 73 68 20 61 20 63 | to esablish a c| 00000030 6f 6e 6e 65 63 74 69 6f 6e 20 77 69 74 68 20 74 |onnection with t| 00000040 68 65 20 64 61 74 61 62 61 73 65 2e 20 28 55 6e |he database. (Un| 00000050 61 62 6c 65 20 74 6f 20 61 63 71 75 69 72 65 20 |able to acquire | 00000060 61 20 6e 65 77 20 63 6f 6e 6e 65 63 74 69 6f 6e |a new connection| 00000070 20 66 72 6f 6d 20 74 68 65 20 70 6f 6f 6c 29 29 | from the pool))| 00000080 0a 2d 2d 2d 2d 20 63 61 75 73 65 20 2d 2d 2d 2d |.---- cause ----| 00000090 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d |----------------| * 000000d0 2d 0a 45 78 63 65 70 74 69 6f 6e 3a 20 6f 72 67 |-.Exception: org| 000000e0 2e 6f 66 62 69 7a 2e 65 6e 74 69 74 79 2e 47 65 |.ofbiz.entity.Ge| 000000f0 6e 65 72 69 63 44 61 74 61 53 6f 75 72 63 65 45 |nericDataSourceE| 00000100 78 63 65 70 74 69 6f 6e 0a 4d 65 73 73 61 67 65 |xception.Message| 00000110 3a 20 55 6e 61 62 6c 65 20 74 6f 20 65 73 61 62 |: Unable to esab| 00000120 6c 69 73 68 20 61 20 63 6f 6e 6e 65 63 74 69 6f |lish a connectio| 00000130 6e 20 77 69 74 68 20 74 68 65 20 64 61 74 61 62 |n with the datab| 00000140 61 73 65 2e 20 28 55 6e 61 62 6c 65 20 74 6f 20 |ase. (Unable to | 00000150 61 63 71 75 69 72 65 20 61 20 6e 65 77 20 63 6f |acquire a new co| 00000160 6e 6e 65 63 74 69 6f 6e 20 66 72 6f 6d 20 74 68 |nnection from th| 00000170 65 20 70 6f 6f 6c 29 0a 2d 2d 2d 2d 20 63 61 75 |e pool).---- cau| 00000180 73 65 20 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d |se -------------| 00000190 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d |----------------| * 000001c0 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 0a 45 78 63 65 70 74 69 |--------.Excepti| 000001d0 6f 6e 3a 20 6a 61 76 61 2e 73 71 6c 2e 53 51 4c |on: java.sql.SQL| 000001e0 45 78 63 65 70 74 69 6f 6e 0a 4d 65 73 73 61 67 |Exception.Messag| 000001f0 65 3a 20 55 6e 61 62 6c 65 20 74 6f 20 61 63 71 |e: Unable to acq| 00000200 Unknown BootLoader on sdb2 00000000 45 78 63 65 70 74 69 6f 6e 3a 20 47 65 6e 65 72 |Exception: Gener| 00000010 69 63 20 45 6e 74 69 74 79 20 45 78 63 65 70 74 |ic Entity Except| 00000020 69 6f 6e 20 6f 63 63 75 72 65 64 20 69 6e 20 75 |ion occured in u| 00000030 70 64 61 74 65 42 79 43 6f 6e 64 69 74 69 6f 6e |pdateByCondition| 00000040 20 28 55 6e 61 62 6c 65 20 74 6f 20 65 73 61 62 | (Unable to esab| 00000050 6c 69 73 68 20 61 20 63 6f 6e 6e 65 63 74 69 6f |lish a connectio| 00000060 6e 20 77 69 74 68 20 74 68 65 20 64 61 74 61 62 |n with the datab| 00000070 61 73 65 2e 20 28 55 6e 61 62 6c 65 20 74 6f 20 |ase. (Unable to | 00000080 61 63 71 75 69 72 65 20 61 20 6e 65 77 20 63 6f |acquire a new co| 00000090 6e 6e 65 63 74 69 6f 6e 20 66 72 6f 6d 20 74 68 |nnection from th| 000000a0 65 20 70 6f 6f 6c 29 29 5d 2e 20 52 6f 6c 6c 69 |e pool))]. Rolli| 000000b0 6e 67 20 62 61 63 6b 20 74 72 61 6e 73 61 63 74 |ng back transact| 000000c0 69 6f 6e 2e 0a 45 78 63 65 70 74 69 6f 6e 3a 20 |ion..Exception: | 000000d0 6f 72 67 2e 6f 66 62 69 7a 2e 65 6e 74 69 74 79 |org.ofbiz.entity| 000000e0 2e 47 65 6e 65 72 69 63 44 61 74 61 53 6f 75 72 |.GenericDataSour| 000000f0 63 65 45 78 63 65 70 74 69 6f 6e 0a 4d 65 73 73 |ceException.Mess| 00000100 61 67 65 3a 20 47 65 6e 65 72 69 63 20 45 6e 74 |age: Generic Ent| 00000110 69 74 79 20 45 78 63 65 70 74 69 6f 6e 20 6f 63 |ity Exception oc| 00000120 63 75 72 65 64 20 69 6e 20 75 70 64 61 74 65 42 |cured in updateB| 00000130 79 43 6f 6e 64 69 74 69 6f 6e 20 28 55 6e 61 62 |yCondition (Unab| 00000140 6c 65 20 74 6f 20 65 73 61 62 6c 69 73 68 20 61 |le to esablish a| 00000150 20 63 6f 6e 6e 65 63 74 69 6f 6e 20 77 69 74 68 | connection with| 00000160 20 74 68 65 20 64 61 74 61 62 61 73 65 2e 20 28 | the database. (| 00000170 55 6e 61 62 6c 65 20 74 6f 20 61 63 71 75 69 72 |Unable to acquir| 00000180 65 20 61 20 6e 65 77 20 63 6f 6e 6e 65 63 74 69 |e a new connecti| 00000190 6f 6e 20 66 72 6f 6d 20 74 68 65 20 70 6f 6f 6c |on from the pool| 000001a0 29 29 0a 2d 2d 2d 2d 20 63 61 75 73 65 20 2d 2d |)).---- cause --| 000001b0 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d 2d |----------------| * 000001f0 2d 2d 2d 0a 45 78 63 65 70 74 69 6f 6e 3a 20 6f |---.Exception: o| 00000200 ADDITIONAL INFORMATION : =================== log of boot-repair 2013-06-06__18h04 =================== boot-repair version : 3.199~ppa4~precise boot-sav version : 3.199~ppa4~precise glade2script version : 3.2.2~ppa45~precise boot-sav-extra version : 3.199~ppa4~precise BLKID BEFORE RAID ACTIVATION: /dev/loop0: TYPE="squashfs" /dev/sr0: LABEL="Ubuntu 12.04.1 LTS i386" TYPE="iso9660" /dev/sda1: UUID="aebdec1e-488b-5a7b-59f4-3fedeb500c04" UUID_SUB="6fbaf22b-b9a9-c788-42bc-e2df42511ca5" LABEL="gc30:0" TYPE="linux_raid_member" /dev/sda2: UUID="41b95a90-2e09-f153-fd8b-08d1685c0de9" UUID_SUB="50b6cbe9-68a8-6b00-ae62-6c256707cb6c" LABEL="gc30:1" TYPE="linux_raid_member" /dev/sdb1: UUID="aebdec1e-488b-5a7b-59f4-3fedeb500c04" UUID_SUB="36d95ead-eeb4-6fae-6287-46aa7883ba3e" LABEL="gc30:0" TYPE="linux_raid_member" /dev/sdb2: UUID="41b95a90-2e09-f153-fd8b-08d1685c0de9" UUID_SUB="6f14a69c-4a6c-23ff-e8f2-6ea97a134149" LABEL="gc30:1" TYPE="linux_raid_member" dmraid -si -c: no raid disks No DMRAID disk. RAID detected. You may want to retry after installing the [mdadm] packages. (sudo apt-get install -y --force-yes mdadm --no-install-recommends) Warning: no DMRAID nor MD_ARRAY. boot-repair is executed in live-session (Ubuntu 12.04.1 LTS, precise, Ubuntu, i686) ls: cannot access /home/usr/.config: No such file or directory CPU op-mode(s): 32-bit, 64-bit file=/cdrom/preseed/ubuntu.seed boot=casper initrd=/casper/initrd.lz quiet splash -- maybe-ubiquity =================== os-prober: =================== blkid: /dev/loop0: TYPE="squashfs" /dev/sr0: LABEL="Ubuntu 12.04.1 LTS i386" TYPE="iso9660" /dev/sda1: UUID="aebdec1e-488b-5a7b-59f4-3fedeb500c04" UUID_SUB="6fbaf22b-b9a9-c788-42bc-e2df42511ca5" LABEL="gc30:0" TYPE="linux_raid_member" /dev/sda2: UUID="41b95a90-2e09-f153-fd8b-08d1685c0de9" UUID_SUB="50b6cbe9-68a8-6b00-ae62-6c256707cb6c" LABEL="gc30:1" TYPE="linux_raid_member" /dev/sdb1: UUID="aebdec1e-488b-5a7b-59f4-3fedeb500c04" UUID_SUB="36d95ead-eeb4-6fae-6287-46aa7883ba3e" LABEL="gc30:0" TYPE="linux_raid_member" /dev/sdb2: UUID="41b95a90-2e09-f153-fd8b-08d1685c0de9" UUID_SUB="6f14a69c-4a6c-23ff-e8f2-6ea97a134149" LABEL="gc30:1" TYPE="linux_raid_member" =================== UEFI/Legacy mode: This live-session is not EFI-compatible. SecureBoot maybe enabled. =================== PARTITIONS & DISKS: sda : not-GPT, BIOSboot-not-needed, has-no-EFIpart, not-usb, no-os, 2048 sectors * 512 bytes sdb : not-GPT, BIOSboot-not-needed, has-no-EFIpart, not-usb, no-os, 2048 sectors * 512 bytes =================== parted -l: Model: ATA ST3500320AS (scsi) Disk /dev/sda: 500GB Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B Partition Table: msdos Number Start End Size Type File system Flags 1 1049kB 16.0GB 16.0GB primary ext3 raid 2 16.0GB 500GB 484GB primary boot, raid Model: ATA ST3500320AS (scsi) Disk /dev/sdb: 500GB Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B Partition Table: msdos Number Start End Size Type File system Flags 1 1049kB 16.0GB 16.0GB primary raid 2 16.0GB 500GB 484GB primary boot, raid Warning: Unable to open /dev/sr0 read-write (Read-only file system). /dev/sr0 has been opened read-only. Error: Can't have a partition outside the disk! =================== parted -lm: BYT; /dev/sda:500GB:scsi:512:512:msdos:ATA ST3500320AS; 1:1049kB:16.0GB:16.0GB:ext3::raid; 2:16.0GB:500GB:484GB:::boot, raid; BYT; /dev/sdb:500GB:scsi:512:512:msdos:ATA ST3500320AS; 1:1049kB:16.0GB:16.0GB:::raid; 2:16.0GB:500GB:484GB:::boot, raid; Warning: Unable to open /dev/sr0 read-write (Read-only file system). /dev/sr0 has been opened read-only. Error: Can't have a partition outside the disk! =================== mount: /cow on / type overlayfs (rw) proc on /proc type proc (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev) sysfs on /sys type sysfs (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev) udev on /dev type devtmpfs (rw,mode=0755) devpts on /dev/pts type devpts (rw,noexec,nosuid,gid=5,mode=0620) tmpfs on /run type tmpfs (rw,noexec,nosuid,size=10%,mode=0755) /dev/sr0 on /cdrom type iso9660 (ro,noatime) /dev/loop0 on /rofs type squashfs (ro,noatime) none on /sys/fs/fuse/connections type fusectl (rw) none on /sys/kernel/debug type debugfs (rw) none on /sys/kernel/security type securityfs (rw) tmpfs on /tmp type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev) none on /run/lock type tmpfs (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev,size=5242880) none on /run/shm type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev) gvfs-fuse-daemon on /home/ubuntu/.gvfs type fuse.gvfs-fuse-daemon (rw,nosuid,nodev,user=ubuntu) =================== ls: /sys/block/fd0 (filtered): alignment_offset bdi capability dev device discard_alignment events events_async events_poll_msecs ext_range holders inflight power queue range removable ro size slaves stat subsystem trace uevent /sys/block/sda (filtered): alignment_offset bdi capability dev device discard_alignment events events_async events_poll_msecs ext_range holders inflight power queue range removable ro sda1 sda2 size slaves stat subsystem trace uevent /sys/block/sdb (filtered): alignment_offset bdi capability dev device discard_alignment events events_async events_poll_msecs ext_range holders inflight power queue range removable ro sdb1 sdb2 size slaves stat subsystem trace uevent /sys/block/sr0 (filtered): alignment_offset bdi capability dev device discard_alignment events events_async events_poll_msecs ext_range holders inflight power queue range removable ro size slaves stat subsystem trace uevent /dev (filtered): agpgart autofs block bsg btrfs-control bus cdrom cdrw char console core cpu cpu_dma_latency disk dri ecryptfs fb0 fd fd0 full fuse hidraw0 hidraw1 hpet input kmsg log lp0 mapper mcelog mem net network_latency network_throughput null oldmem parport0 port ppp psaux ptmx pts random rfkill rtc rtc0 sda sda1 sda2 sdb sdb1 sdb2 sg0 sg1 sg2 shm snapshot snd sr0 stderr stdin stdout uinput urandom usbmon0 usbmon1 usbmon2 usbmon3 usbmon4 usbmon5 vga_arbiter zero ls /dev/mapper: control =================== df -Th: Filesystem Type Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on /cow overlayfs 1002M 115M 887M 12% / udev devtmpfs 995M 12K 995M 1% /dev tmpfs tmpfs 401M 800K 400M 1% /run /dev/sr0 iso9660 696M 696M 0 100% /cdrom /dev/loop0 squashfs 667M 667M 0 100% /rofs tmpfs tmpfs 1002M 40K 1002M 1% /tmp none tmpfs 5.0M 4.0K 5.0M 1% /run/lock none tmpfs 1002M 176K 1002M 1% /run/shm =================== fdisk -l: Disk /dev/sda: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders, total 976773168 sectors Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Disk identifier: 0x000d1297 Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/sda1 2048 31250431 15624192 fd Linux raid autodetect /dev/sda2 * 31250432 976771071 472760320 fd Linux raid autodetect Disk /dev/sdb: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders, total 976773168 sectors Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Disk identifier: 0x00010c5f Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/sdb1 2048 31250431 15624192 fd Linux raid autodetect /dev/sdb2 * 31250432 976771071 472760320 fd Linux raid autodetect Error: no partitions Partition outside the disk detected. =================== Default settings Recommended-Repair This setting would reinstall the of . Additional repair would be performed: repair-filesystems =================== Settings chosen by the user Boot-Info This setting will not act on the MBR. No change has been performed on your computer. pastebinit packages needed dpkg-preconfigure: unable to re-open stdin: No such file or directory -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Thu Jun 6 13:52:35 2013 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (B-o-B De Mars) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2013 13:52:35 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] FD0 Read Error In-Reply-To: <1739249093.630777.1370543252293.JavaMail.root@greencaremankato.com> References: <1739249093.630777.1370543252293.JavaMail.root@greencaremankato.com> Message-ID: <51B0DA73.8090805@gmail.com> On 6/6/2013 1:27 PM, Thomas Rieff wrote:: > I while back I updated this server and it will not boot now. Has fd0 > read error. > It has 2-500 gig drives in Raid configuration. > It boots to the error, then the grub screen shows and then the screen > goes blank. > Live cd works fine. > Trying to do a boot repair, but not getting there??? > Any thoughts??? > Tom > Do you have a floppy drive? Disable Floppy Drive in your BIOS (sometime called FDD Emulation or Legacy... or something like that on more modern hardware). This usually gets rid of this error. Make sure FDD/Floppy is not part of the bios boot sequence. That should do the trick. From Chase at TonkaTelTec.com Thu Jun 6 17:44:03 2013 From: Chase at TonkaTelTec.com (Chase Remmen) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2013 22:44:03 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] APC MasterSwitches In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike, What are the model #'s on those...I may have a us for them. Thanks! Chase [Description: TTT_logo_email] Chase Remmen Managing Director Tonka TelTec, LLC P. 612.315.6767 C. 763.250.8141 F. 612.315.6720 chase at tonkateltec.com www.tonkateltec.com [Description: Dell_Email_PDR_Logo] From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Mike Rochford Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 11:05 AM To: tclug-list Subject: [tclug-list] APC MasterSwitches Anyone interest in these two master switches? I am moving and these need to go. If you dont know what these are you are missing out. Would be great to have your cable/DSL modem and/or router hooked up to for remote power cycles. [Inline image 1] Looking to get $50 for each switch. Willing to meet in SW metro or during the week in Eagan. -Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5868 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 8689 bytes Desc: image002.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 96134 bytes Desc: image003.jpg URL: From tclug at mikerochford.com Thu Jun 6 17:46:27 2013 From: tclug at mikerochford.com (Mike Rochford) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2013 17:46:27 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] APC MasterSwitches In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Both are sold. THanks, On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Mike Rochford wrote: > Anyone interest in these two master switches? I am moving and these need > to go. > > If you dont know what these are you are missing out. > > Would be great to have your cable/DSL modem and/or router hooked up to for > remote power cycles. > > [image: Inline image 1] > > Looking to get $50 for each switch. Willing to meet in SW metro or during > the week in Eagan. > > -Mike > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 20130606-0.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 96134 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri Jun 7 23:06:09 2013 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 23:06:09 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] A $99 Linux supercomputer has been built, will ship this summer Message-ID: What do you think of this?... http://www.geek.com/chips/a-99-linux-supercomputer-has-been-built-will-ship-this-summer-1552343/ Geek.com April 17, 2013 A $99 Linux supercomputer has been built, will ship this summer By James Plafke Graphic: http://www.geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Screen-Shot-2013-04-17-at-5.20.44-PM-590x376.jpg Cheap, tiny, underpowered computers are becoming a hot new trend in the computing world ever since the $25 and $35 Raspberry Pi models broke onto the scene. For the most part, the Raspberry Pi gets all the buzz, as it both kicked off the trend, and is the cheapest of the cheap, tiny, underpowered computers you can get. Now, though, Adapteva is attempting to make a splash on the scene with its $99 parallel-processing board for Linux. The board may not seem cheap by comparison, but considering Adapteva is attempt to bring supercomputer to the everyman for under one hundred dollars, it probably deserves a pass for not matching the Pi's $25 price tag. For the uninitiated, parallel computing is the process by which various calculations are performed at the same time, breaking up a larger problem into separate, smaller bits so those bits can be calculated simultaneously. Massively powerful supercomputers, such as IBM's Blue Gene/P, employ parallel computing. Dubbed Parallela, Adapteva's board is roughly the size of a credit card, similar to the Raspberry Pi, but packs a significantly more powerful punch. Parallela comes with 1GB of RAM, 2 USB 2.0 ports, a microSD slot, an HDMI connection, and a 10/100/1000 Ethernet port. All of those specs are fairly standard for a little $99 computer nowadays, except along with the Parallela's ARM A9 processor, it comes with a 64-core Epiphany Multicore Accelerator, which helps the board achieve around 90 gigaflops. For comparison, that amount of GFLOPS is equivalent to a 45GHz processor.? Like a majority of supercomputers, Parallela will use a Linux distribution; in this case, Ubuntu 12.04. Video: http://www.youtube.com/embed/CYhaL8hY-0Y Though Adapteva's Kickstarter campaign was successfully funded back in October, the company announced this week that it built the first Parallela.? For the average consumer, the boards won't suddenly replace standard desktops or gaming rigs, but will act as more of a powerful -- but cheap and energy efficient -- dedicated box. The Parallela boards will be shipping this summer, not only to Kickstarter backers, but to other customers as well. -- Now read: Use your Raspberry Pi as brain for a terrifying spider robot http://www.geek.com/news/use-your-raspberry-pi-as-brain-for-a-terrifying-spider-robot-1544636/ From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com Fri Jun 7 23:25:45 2013 From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 23:25:45 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A $99 Linux supercomputer has been built, will ship this summer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130607232545.cca0321b4391d1391dd63002@jasonhsu.com> It sounds great except for the inclusion of Ubuntu. This is a double-whammy. First, there is the user-unfriendly Unity interface. Second, I'm not sure 1 GB of memory is enough for Ubuntu, as it's now as heavy as Windows 7 or Windows Vista. Debian with 256 MB of memory (the Raspberry Pi setup) can smoke Ubuntu with 1 GB of memory. If this $99 supercomputer came with something lighter, it would be a sure winner. Linux Mint Debian Edition, Snowlinux 4 Glacier, antiX Linux, and Puppy Linux prove that a polished user-friendly interface doesn't require the bloat of Ubuntu. On Fri, 7 Jun 2013 23:06:09 -0500 (CDT) Mike Miller wrote: > What do you think of this?... > > > http://www.geek.com/chips/a-99-linux-supercomputer-has-been-built-will-ship-this-summer-1552343/ > -- Jason Hsu From ryanjcole at me.com Fri Jun 7 23:46:31 2013 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 23:46:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A $99 Linux supercomputer has been built, will ship this summer In-Reply-To: <20130607232545.cca0321b4391d1391dd63002@jasonhsu.com> References: <20130607232545.cca0321b4391d1391dd63002@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: <22C748EF-6490-4F07-A8A4-7D436DCD8967@me.com> Anything "can smoke" anything else if you eliminate the GUI. Do you ever have something positive to say without being negative afterwards? On Jun 7, 2013, at 23:25, Jason Hsu wrote: > It sounds great except for the inclusion of Ubuntu. This is a double-whammy. First, there is the user-unfriendly Unity interface. Second, I'm not sure 1 GB of memory is enough for Ubuntu, as it's now as heavy as Windows 7 or Windows Vista. Debian with 256 MB of memory (the Raspberry Pi setup) can smoke Ubuntu with 1 GB of memory. > > If this $99 supercomputer came with something lighter, it would be a sure winner. Linux Mint Debian Edition, Snowlinux 4 Glacier, antiX Linux, and Puppy Linux prove that a polished user-friendly interface doesn't require the bloat of Ubuntu. > > On Fri, 7 Jun 2013 23:06:09 -0500 (CDT) > Mike Miller wrote: > >> What do you think of this?... >> >> >> http://www.geek.com/chips/a-99-linux-supercomputer-has-been-built-will-ship-this-summer-1552343/ > -- > Jason Hsu > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Sat Jun 8 00:18:35 2013 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (B-o-B De Mars) Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2013 00:18:35 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A $99 Linux supercomputer has been built, will ship this summer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51B2BEAB.7050100@gmail.com> On 6/7/2013 11:06 PM, Mike Miller wrote:: > What do you think of this?... > > > http://www.geek.com/chips/a-99-linux-supercomputer-has-been-built-will-ship-this-summer-1552343/ I personally think this is fantastic! I have many PI's, and a handful of other ARM boards. I absolutely love this stuff. The only bumber (much like all the other ARM boards I have) is I wish they would through a sata port on there to take advantage of a mSATA SSD. Class 10 SD's work well enough, but I'm sure they have good reason for always excluding SATA. Anyways, thanks for sharing this. I just put myself on the waiting list to get one when they have a batch to ship :) From florin at iucha.net Sat Jun 8 00:29:37 2013 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2013 00:29:37 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A $99 Linux supercomputer has been built, will ship this summer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130608052937.GF19193@signbit.net> On Fri, Jun 07, 2013 at 11:06:09PM -0500, Mike Miller wrote: > What do you think of this?... > > http://www.geek.com/chips/a-99-linux-supercomputer-has-been-built-will-ship-this-summer-1552343/ > > All of those specs are fairly standard for a little $99 computer > nowadays, except along with the Parallela's ARM A9 processor, it > comes with a 64-core Epiphany Multicore Accelerator, which helps the > board achieve around 90 gigaflops. For comparison, that amount of > GFLOPS is equivalent to a 45GHz processor. Comparing apples and orangutans, again! Wikipedia page for Xeon [1] indicates that a Xeon X5365 (3.0 GHz, 8 MB of cache, 4 cores with Hyperthreading) performs to around 38 GFlops. And that is technology discontinued in 2009 [2] So, we need just 2.4 Xeons with 4 cores each at 3 GHz to get to 90 GFlops. or 2.4 Xeons with 1 core each at 12 GHz to get to 90 GFlops or 1 Xeons with 1 core each at 28.5 GHz to get to 90 GFlops Where are the other 27 GHz? Are they using an even older processor core? Secondly, one 45GHz processor is not equivalent with 45 1GHz processors. Even if the problem is fully parallelizable, there is still loss of performance due to the need to synchronize data stores, collision when accessing hardware resources such as caches, etc. But no problem is fully parallelizable, see "Amdahl's Law" [3]. Thirdly, "GFlops" are influenced not only by the speed of the CPU, but the bandwidth and latency of the CPU-memory interface. In order to crunch that much data, you have to get it in and out of the CPU. Looking at the diagram, it seems that the "supecomputer" shares the memory bus with all the peripherals, such as UART and USB. This is not how you design a supercomputer. The aforementioned Xeon has a 1333 MHz quad-pumped bus allowing transfers measured in tens of gigabytes per second. The power-optimized ARM bus is not running anywhere near that speed, and it would be like the bullet trains and Amish wagons (with Borg shields, so impervious to any collisions) sharing a couple of tracks. I wish I had such a massively multiprocessor system to play with, but this one isn't it. Cheers, florin 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xeon 2: http://ark.intel.com/products/30702/ 3: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahl%27s_law -- Sent from my last battery. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Sat Jun 8 00:32:48 2013 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2013 00:32:48 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] A $99 Linux supercomputer has been built, will ship this summer In-Reply-To: <20130607232545.cca0321b4391d1391dd63002@jasonhsu.com> References: <20130607232545.cca0321b4391d1391dd63002@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Jun 2013, Jason Hsu wrote: > It sounds great except for the inclusion of Ubuntu. Jason, seriously. You can't automatically dismiss everything that has Ubuntu written on it. First of all, this guy and other ARM-based boards are pretty much a hobbyist/learning tool. You can go ahead and install whatever Linux (or other OS) you want on it. Second, the ARM version of Ubuntu is designed for low-powered, low-memory ARM machines. By neccesity it is stripped down a lot and not at all inclusive of the bloat you hate so much on desktop ubuntu. This thing will do just fine. From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Sat Jun 8 00:48:41 2013 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (B-o-B De Mars) Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2013 00:48:41 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A $99 Linux supercomputer has been built, will ship this summer In-Reply-To: <20130607232545.cca0321b4391d1391dd63002@jasonhsu.com> References: <20130607232545.cca0321b4391d1391dd63002@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: <51B2C5B9.6010308@gmail.com> On 6/7/2013 11:25 PM, Jason Hsu wrote:: > It sounds great except for the inclusion of Ubuntu. This is a double-whammy. First, there is the user-unfriendly Unity interface. Second, I'm not sure 1 GB of memory is enough for Ubuntu, as it's now as heavy as Windows 7 or Windows Vista. Debian with 256 MB of memory (the Raspberry Pi setup) can smoke Ubuntu with 1 GB of memory. > > If this $99 supercomputer came with something lighter, it would be a sure winner. Linux Mint Debian Edition, Snowlinux 4 Glacier, antiX Linux, and Puppy Linux prove that a polished user-friendly interface doesn't require the bloat of Ubuntu. Just because it comes with Ubuntu, or they recommend an ARM Ubuntu image you download to use with the board *DOES NOT MEAN YOU HAVE TO USE IT*. Come on man, don't smash the beauty of the architecture here just because it comes with a distro you don't like. You are missing the point. This company designs hardware, not a distro. I have 6 PIs, and several other ARM boards. I have *never* used any of the stock images provided by any of them (most were Debian based). As long as they provide the firmware (and so far all I've seen do) you can create your own images with any ARM based distro you want. I personally use Slackware ARM (ARMedSlack) with my boards as other distros (especially the ones you listed - although Mint isn't so bad I guess) really bug me. Freedom brother. Embrace it! From florin at iucha.net Sat Jun 8 00:57:39 2013 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2013 00:57:39 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu love-fest Was: A $99 Linux supercomputer has been built, will ship this summer In-Reply-To: References: <20130607232545.cca0321b4391d1391dd63002@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: <20130608055739.GG19193@signbit.net> On Sat, Jun 08, 2013 at 12:32:48AM -0500, Yaron wrote: > >It sounds great except for the inclusion of Ubuntu. > > Jason, seriously. You can't automatically dismiss everything that > has Ubuntu written on it. Yes, you're right! Warthy Warthog was awesome! All the goodness of Debian with the latest X.org and Gnome 2! And regular updates. But since Ubuntu and KDE and Gnome decided that they don't need the old users, they're going to find new users... everything went down the drain. Why couldn't they go and make pwetty Mac apps on their shinny silver 'books and let us, the unenlightened masses wallow in the mire? Yes, the 5 clock applets for Gnome weren't good enough! We have to make a new one, in Javascript, and remove the ability to use applets to people will be forced to use the one true clock. And be prevented from opening a second terminal unless they contort their fingers and beg for forgiveness. Because we all use fully-maximized windows on 27" monitors. But boy did we get one button 'social' integration and 'social' search with results from Amazon. Progress... I shudder to think what would have happened if they would have been born 30 years earlier, and would have taken over grep and gcc and cat. Cheers, florin -- Sent from my last battery. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Sat Jun 8 01:06:28 2013 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2013 01:06:28 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu love-fest Was: A $99 Linux supercomputer has been built, will ship this summer In-Reply-To: <20130608055739.GG19193@signbit.net> References: <20130607232545.cca0321b4391d1391dd63002@jasonhsu.com> <20130608055739.GG19193@signbit.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Jun 2013, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Sat, Jun 08, 2013 at 12:32:48AM -0500, Yaron wrote: >>> It sounds great except for the inclusion of Ubuntu. >> >> Jason, seriously. You can't automatically dismiss everything that >> has Ubuntu written on it. > > Yes, you're right! Warthy Warthog was awesome! All the goodness of > Debian with the latest X.org and Gnome 2! And regular updates. I... never said you have to automatically love Ubuntu. Just saying don't have on something just because it mentions Ubuntu, especially something where Ubuntu is COMPLETELY optional. On a somewhat different note: I've been running Ubuntu for... many years, and I still use the SAME BASIC CONFIGURATION I have since the day I installed it for the first time. My desktop is on 13.04, and I'm still running X with WindowMaker. Not KDE, not Gnome, not Unity. And when I upgrade Ubuntu, do you know how much configuration I have to do to get that to work? ZERO. And you know something? It's the same setup I used when I ran debian, before I switched to Ubuntu. And you know something else? It's the same serup I used when I ran Red Hat before that. Used the same setup on FreeBSD and even Solaris. Ubuntu still works for me, and I'm hardly what you'd call a newbie. If it ever stops working I can easily switch (and goodness knows I am sometimes heavily tempted). I'm not in love with it, but I do not understand the MASSIVE hate for it. And I /definitely/ don't understand dismissing a really nice $99 ARM machine because they may recommend an Ubuntu build for it, especially since the Ubuntu they recommend is, as you say, apples and orangutans from the desktop version. From max at bernsteinforpresident.com Sat Jun 8 01:11:48 2013 From: max at bernsteinforpresident.com (Max Shinn) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2013 08:11:48 +0200 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu love-fest Was: A $99 Linux supercomputer has been built, will ship this summer In-Reply-To: <20130608055739.GG19193@signbit.net> References: <20130607232545.cca0321b4391d1391dd63002@jasonhsu.com> <20130608055739.GG19193@signbit.net> Message-ID: > Why couldn't they go and make pwetty Mac apps on their shinny silver > 'books and let us, the unenlightened masses wallow in the mire? > ... > We have to > make a new one, in Javascript, and remove the ability to use applets > to people will be forced to use the one true clock. I don't really understand all of the complaining about the changes to Gnome/KDE/etc. This is free software. If you would like to use the older versions of Gnome, go right ahead. The source code is there waiting for you. Go compile it to your heart's content. Even though I don't currently use it, I happen to like the latest version of KDE. You don't like it? Good for you. This is free software. You have the freedom to use an older version without anyone getting in your way. I am currently using an prerelease of e17 as my desktop environment. It is more stable (for whatever reason) than the "stable" version. Free software is great because I don't have to whine and complain to anyone that their new version isn't as good as their old version. I can just grab the old one, compile it, and away I go. That's freedom... not having to depend on a company to serve you their latest offering on a silver silicon chip. That being said, if you used to be a Ubuntu user, I can understand your distaste for the decisions they've made recently that make you put in the time to switch to something else. It's a pain in the butt that I had to go through last year. However, there are many other fantastic Debian-based distros to choose from. Take your pick. -Max From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com Sat Jun 8 10:20:30 2013 From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2013 10:20:30 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A $99 Linux supercomputer has been built, will ship this summer In-Reply-To: <20130607232545.cca0321b4391d1391dd63002@jasonhsu.com> References: <20130607232545.cca0321b4391d1391dd63002@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: It's open Jason. If it takes off, lots of ARM catering lightweight distros will likely support it with time, ie. http://archlinuxarm.org. I think including Ubuntu out the gate is merely a way to appeal to a wider audience. -- Jeremy MountainJohnson Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:25 PM, Jason Hsu wrote: > It sounds great except for the inclusion of Ubuntu. This is a double-whammy. First, there is the user-unfriendly Unity interface. Second, I'm not sure 1 GB of memory is enough for Ubuntu, as it's now as heavy as Windows 7 or Windows Vista. Debian with 256 MB of memory (the Raspberry Pi setup) can smoke Ubuntu with 1 GB of memory. > > If this $99 supercomputer came with something lighter, it would be a sure winner. Linux Mint Debian Edition, Snowlinux 4 Glacier, antiX Linux, and Puppy Linux prove that a polished user-friendly interface doesn't require the bloat of Ubuntu. > > On Fri, 7 Jun 2013 23:06:09 -0500 (CDT) > Mike Miller wrote: > >> What do you think of this?... >> >> >> http://www.geek.com/chips/a-99-linux-supercomputer-has-been-built-will-ship-this-summer-1552343/ >> > -- > Jason Hsu > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erikerik at gmail.com Sat Jun 8 11:51:40 2013 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2013 11:51:40 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A $99 Linux supercomputer has been built, will ship this summer In-Reply-To: <20130607232545.cca0321b4391d1391dd63002@jasonhsu.com> References: <20130607232545.cca0321b4391d1391dd63002@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:25 PM, Jason Hsu wrote: > It sounds great except for the inclusion of Ubuntu. This is a > double-whammy. First, there is the user-unfriendly Unity interface. > Second, I'm not sure 1 GB of memory is enough for Ubuntu, as it's now as > heavy as Windows 7 or Windows Vista. Debian with 256 MB of memory (the > Raspberry Pi setup) can smoke Ubuntu with 1 GB of memory. > > If this $99 supercomputer came with something lighter, it would be a sure > winner. Linux Mint Debian Edition, Snowlinux 4 Glacier, antiX Linux, and > Puppy Linux prove that a polished user-friendly interface doesn't require > the bloat of Ubuntu. > If someone is truly in need of a so-called "supercomputer" for parallel processing, it's highly unlikely that they will stick with the default *anything* software-wise, and they certainly wouldn't leave a GUI (of any sort) running. The Parellela folks chose ubuntu due to its familiarity and least-common-denominator factor. I'm sure they fully expect the vast majority of customers to use some other distro. *Please* try to stay positive, Jason. The Ubuntu/Microsoft/Windows hate is not only tiring, but also in many cases is completely inaccurate due to the fact that your statements stem from ill-informed notions of the current state of computing hardware and systems usage. As F/OSS-ophiles, I think we all (myself included) went through a phase of enjoying to smear and discredit anything other than our pet distro/operating system/whatever. It's likely time for you to consider leaving that phase behind. I can tell you - the most successful (monetarily and talent-wise) developers and sysadmins I've worked with are able to look at a problem, look at project requirements and potential solutions, and choose the best fit for the project - if that means they fire up a Windows Server instance, then they do that - if the requirements dictate something that FreeBSD is more well-suited to, then they deploy a BSD box, and are able to manage all systems equally well. Anyway, I hope you get the message here - no one likes hearing from someone that is incessantly negative. Trying to stay positive will not only make you a happier person, but will also reflect better on the community of technophiles as a whole. -Erik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eng at pinenet.com Sat Jun 8 13:07:08 2013 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2013 13:07:08 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A $99 Linux supercomputer has been built, will ship this summer In-Reply-To: <20130607232545.cca0321b4391d1391dd63002@jasonhsu.com> References: <20130607232545.cca0321b4391d1391dd63002@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: <51B372CC.7010604@pinenet.com> I actually appreciate this advice. As a slow learner I'm having a blast programming a standard terminal interface to interact with the Arduino Uno. I looked at other terminal programs like "picocom" and "cutecom" (which is cute) besides the over-rated minicom. Started a terminal program with FreePascal, but find tcl/tk and iWidgets and expect are perfect. I use opensuse and iceWM with Nedit. The Arduino Uno is exactly a slave terminal from the olden days, with a Linux PC / USB connection better than a supercomputer. The Raspberry Pi is over my head or out of my league. This is an interesting and impressive evolution in hardware. But why gunk it up with software before you know anything about it? DOS was fun, too. I'm not a minimalist Linux user, but I don't like fat operating systems either. So I appreciate suggestions beyond opensuse (which I've been very happy with since SuSE 6.1). The one time I tried using Ubuntu, showing some engineer kids Linux, it really disappointed me as a Windows wannabe. It blew my chance to show some good kids what Linux was. Jason Hsu wrote: > It sounds great except for the inclusion of Ubuntu. This is a double-whammy. First, there is the user-unfriendly Unity interface. Second, I'm not sure 1 GB of memory is enough for Ubuntu, as it's now as heavy as Windows 7 or Windows Vista. Debian with 256 MB of memory (the Raspberry Pi setup) can smoke Ubuntu with 1 GB of memory. > > If this $99 supercomputer came with something lighter, it would be a sure winner. Linux Mint Debian Edition, Snowlinux 4 Glacier, antiX Linux, and Puppy Linux prove that a polished user-friendly interface doesn't require the bloat of Ubuntu. > > On Fri, 7 Jun 2013 23:06:09 -0500 (CDT) > Mike Miller wrote: > >> What do you think of this?... >> >> >> http://www.geek.com/chips/a-99-linux-supercomputer-has-been-built-will-ship-this-summer-1552343/ >> From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sat Jun 8 21:58:31 2013 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2013 21:58:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] A $99 Linux supercomputer has been built, will ship this summer In-Reply-To: <51B372CC.7010604@pinenet.com> References: <20130607232545.cca0321b4391d1391dd63002@jasonhsu.com> <51B372CC.7010604@pinenet.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Jun 2013, Rick Engebretson wrote: > Jason Hsu wrote: > >> It sounds great except for the inclusion of Ubuntu. This is a >> double-whammy. First, there is the user-unfriendly Unity interface. >> Second, I'm not sure 1 GB of memory is enough for Ubuntu, as it's now >> as heavy as Windows 7 or Windows Vista. Debian with 256 MB of memory >> (the Raspberry Pi setup) can smoke Ubuntu with 1 GB of memory. > > > I actually appreciate this advice. I think Jason's focus on resource use and system requirements of various OSes and distros is a good thing for our group. If his enthusiasm sometimes causes him to make incorrect statements, then feel free to correct him, just like we correct everyone else. I don't think the "he always does that" angle adds much value. Ubuntu has been focusing more on recent hardware, so it can't work on machines where the CPU doesn't support PAE. That means that you have to install a different kernel on non-PAE machines. I guess the memory requirements have to do with the desktop/GUI more than anything else -- as others have pointed out -- but it must be harder to install Ubuntu without installing the default desktop system. Ubuntu could maintain older versions of Gnome in the repository -- do they do that? I know they have some other desktop options in there. Of course there's also Lubuntu and Xubuntu. Mike From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Sun Jun 9 10:36:23 2013 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2013 10:36:23 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Hope for the hopeless Message-ID: Is your C++ project on the ropes? I'm willing to donate 15 hours a week for up to six months on a project that uses the C++ Middleware Writer (CMW). The CMW is an on line code generator that writes low-level C++ marshalling code based on high-level user input. The CMW is an increasingly robust producer of concrete code. I'm borrowing the term "concrete code" from www.springfuse.com. They claim that "Developers learn faster and better with concrete code." -- Brian Wood Ebenezer Enterprises - So far G-d has helped us. http://webEbenezer.net (651) 251-9384 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sulrich at botwerks.org Sun Jun 9 11:30:09 2013 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2013 11:30:09 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] free: sunfire v20z Message-ID: i can't seem to find the old tclug classifieds. i have a v20z that's been churning away for the past couple of years as a LXC host. i've downsized a bit the past couple of weeks. - 4G of RAM - (1) - 140G seagate ST3146707LC - (1) - 70G seagate ST373207LC http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19121-01/sf.v20z nice OOB management to spin up and down on demand. i'm located in southwest minneapolis. drop a line if you're interested. -- steve ulrich (sulrich at botwerks.*) From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Sun Jun 9 14:11:42 2013 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2013 19:11:42 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] free: sunfire v20z Message-ID: steve ulrich : > i can't seem to find the old tclug classifieds. i have a v20z that's > been churning away for the past couple of years as a LXC host. i've > downsized a bit the past couple of weeks. > > - 4G of RAM > - (1) - 140G seagate ST3146707LC > - (1) - 70G seagate ST373207LC > > http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19121-01/sf.v20z > > nice OOB management to spin up and down on demand. > > i'm located in southwest minneapolis. drop a line if you're interested. So I don't have much money to spend on hardware, but have been avoiding the idea of cobbling together a number of machines to form a server farm. Currently my server is an 8 GB, quad core HP desktop. Sadly that's more than enough at this time. (I know that the situation on the ground can change rapidly, and am hopeful for such a change.) Generally, my strategy is to use efficient tools ... I ported a utility program recently from Python to C++ ... I've spent a lot of time making the distribution parts of the software efficient http://webEbenezer.net/build_integration.html ... and I'm working on moving from using ssh to IPsec because I believe it will scale better and be more efficient. So most of what I've done has been designed toward making it possible to support a lot of users with relatively cheap hardware. (Being an entreprenuer isn't as glamorous as they make it look on TV.) Just having one server is much nicer than having a bunch of them, especially for someone like me who isn't a sys admin guru. What do you think about the one server strategy? Does the "beggars can't be choosers" maxim mean I should be building a farm and biting the administrations bullets? Tia. -- Brian Ebenezer Enterprises - All the world is just a narrow bridge; the most important thing is not to be afraid. Rebbe Nachman http://webEbenezer.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Sun Jun 9 15:14:39 2013 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?bXIuY2hldy5iYWthQGdtYWlsLmNvbQ==?=) Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2013 15:14:39 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] =?utf-8?q?free=3A_sunfire_v20z?= Message-ID: <51b4e22c.84e2b60a.62e0.4a4a@mx.google.com> You are betting the farm on a single point of failure. I would recommend at least getting one more box that you backup/replicate to in case the mothership goes down. My 2 cents on the situation. Mr. B-o-B ----- Reply message ----- From: "Brian Wood" To: "tclug-list" Subject: [tclug-list] free: sunfire v20z Date: Sun, Jun 9, 2013 14:11 So I don't have much money to spend on hardware, but have been avoiding the idea of cobbling together a number of machines to form a server farm. Currently my server is an 8 GB, quad core HP desktop. Sadly that's more than enough at this time. (I know that the situation on the ground can change rapidly, and am hopeful for such a change.) Generally, my strategy is to use efficient tools ... I ported a utility program recently from Python to C++ ... I've spent a lot of time making the distribution parts of the software efficient http://webEbenezer.net/build_integration.html ... and I'm working on moving from using ssh to IPsec because I believe it will scale better and be more efficient. So most of what I've done has been designed toward making it possible to support a lot of users with relatively cheap hardware. (Being an entreprenuer isn't as glamorous as they make it look on TV.) Just having one server is much nicer than having a bunch of them, especially for someone like me who isn't a sys admin guru. What do you think about the one server strategy? Does the "beggars can't be choosers" maxim mean I should be building a farm and biting the administrations bullets? Tia. -- Brian Ebenezer Enterprises - All the world is just a narrow bridge; the most important thing is not to be afraid. Rebbe Nachman http://webEbenezer.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erikerik at gmail.com Mon Jun 10 08:47:36 2013 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 08:47:36 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A $99 Linux supercomputer has been built, will ship this summer In-Reply-To: References: <20130607232545.cca0321b4391d1391dd63002@jasonhsu.com> <51B372CC.7010604@pinenet.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 9:58 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > If his enthusiasm sometimes causes him to make incorrect statements, then > feel free to correct him, just like we correct everyone else. I have. Others have as well, apparently to no effect. To be clear, I have nothing against passion, even passion for old/lightweight hardware. We *need* passionate people. What I think is unhealthy (for the person and the profession) It is when passion becomes so one-sided that the person is unable to understand or even acknowledge that there are a *lot* of different use cases, requirements, hardware, preferences, etc. out there. As another list member pointed out - it's no use dismissing the whole Parallela project just because it ships with Ubuntu by default. While I do focus on server-side linux implementations, I do try and keep a broader view of other areas of linux usage as well: desktop, embedded, etc. I recognize, though that we all have blind spots - myself very much included, and it's in all of our best interests to try and minimize those blind spots. So to that end, I'm willing to have an honest, open-handed, respectful conversation about this. Happy Monday, all! -Erik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sulrich at botwerks.org Mon Jun 10 09:10:03 2013 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 09:10:03 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] free: sunfire v20z In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: fwiw - most folks with highly elastic workloads are better off not spending money on hardware. this is something folks like rackspace, amazon and google are really good at. pay for what you need, when you need it and design your applications to take advantage of different (un)availability models. On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 2:11 PM, Brian Wood wrote: > steve ulrich : > > >> i can't seem to find the old tclug classifieds. i have a v20z that's >> been churning away for the past couple of years as a LXC host. i've >> downsized a bit the past couple of weeks. >> >> - 4G of RAM >> - (1) - 140G seagate ST3146707LC >> - (1) - 70G seagate ST373207LC >> >> http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19121-01/sf.v20z >> >> nice OOB management to spin up and down on demand. >> >> i'm located in southwest minneapolis. drop a line if you're interested. > > So I don't have much money to spend on hardware, but > have been avoiding the idea of cobbling together a > number of machines to form a server farm. Currently my > server is an 8 GB, quad core HP desktop. Sadly that's > more than enough at this time. (I know that the situation > on the ground can change rapidly, and am hopeful for > such a change.) Generally, my strategy is to use efficient > tools ... I ported a utility program recently from Python to > C++ ... I've spent a lot of time making the distribution parts > of the software efficient > http://webEbenezer.net/build_integration.html ... and I'm > working on moving from using ssh to IPsec because I believe > it will scale better and be more efficient. So most of what I've > done has been designed toward making it possible to support > a lot of users with relatively cheap hardware. (Being an > entreprenuer isn't as glamorous as they make it look on TV.) > Just having one server is much nicer than having a bunch of > them, especially for someone like me who isn't a sys admin guru. > What do you think about the one server strategy? Does the > "beggars can't be choosers" maxim mean I should be building > a farm and biting the administrations bullets? Tia. > > -- > Brian > Ebenezer Enterprises - All the world is just a narrow bridge; > the most important thing is not to be afraid. Rebbe Nachman > http://webEbenezer.net > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- steve ulrich (sulrich at botwerks.*) From eng at pinenet.com Mon Jun 10 08:21:34 2013 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 08:21:34 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A $99 Linux supercomputer has been built, will ship this summer In-Reply-To: References: <20130607232545.cca0321b4391d1391dd63002@jasonhsu.com> <51B372CC.7010604@pinenet.com> Message-ID: <51B5D2DE.1020609@pinenet.com> I would be delighted to participate in expanding the linux discussion. Clearly, I read the posts and rarely feel anything connects to my interests. I won't claim to be an expert at anything. But I happened to start grad school Biophysics under the guy who invented digital electronics, Otto Schmitt, by copying nerve signals. I still have some ancient tube era big steel getting pretty rusty. I pushed fiber optics when nobody concieved of the internet. I worked in an era when hand operated chemical instruments became computer operated. I did a 3D graphics of the electro-optics of some peptide structures and pushed liquid crystals on an 8bit DOS machine doing the math myself on sloowww PCBios Basic and IIRC 256K of memory (I'm still amazed that worked). I've seen enormous changes that Minnesota failed to exploit as it might have if we had some better engagement. As a parent, it seems kids wanting toys has been calling the shots for a long time. People are free to create their own Ubuntu club. But don't gang up on a guy trying to expand the linux discussion. Erik Anderson wrote: > On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 9:58 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > >> If his enthusiasm sometimes causes him to make incorrect statements, then >> feel free to correct him, just like we correct everyone else. > > > I have. Others have as well, apparently to no effect. > > To be clear, I have nothing against passion, even passion for > old/lightweight hardware. We *need* passionate people. What I think is > unhealthy (for the person and the profession) It is when passion becomes so > one-sided that the person is unable to understand or even acknowledge that > there are a *lot* of different use cases, requirements, hardware, > preferences, etc. out there. As another list member pointed out - it's no > use dismissing the whole Parallela project just because it ships with > Ubuntu by default. > > While I do focus on server-side linux implementations, I do try and keep a > broader view of other areas of linux usage as well: desktop, embedded, etc. > I recognize, though that we all have blind spots - myself very much > included, and it's in all of our best interests to try and minimize those > blind spots. So to that end, I'm willing to have an honest, open-handed, > respectful conversation about this. > > Happy Monday, all! > -Erik > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com Mon Jun 10 13:04:01 2013 From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 13:04:01 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A $99 Linux supercomputer has been built, will ship this summer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130610130401.9e7c93d9a07cba9f6a6b8f8b@jasonhsu.com> If the Parallela came with at least 2 GB of memory, then I'd be confident that it could comfortably run Ubuntu or any Ubuntu-based distro. Keep in mind that any new Dell desktop computer you can buy today comes with at least 2 GB of memory, and any new Dell laptop computer you can buy today comes with at least 4 GB of memory. Furthermore, you can upgrade the memory on Dell desktop and laptop computers. (And I'm sure that most people buying new desktop and laptop computers today get considerably more than 2-4 GB of memory.) I've tried Ubuntu-based Linux Mint (with LXDE) and Xubuntu with 2 GB of memory in VirtualBox (around late 2011), and they felt slower than Linux Mint Debian Edition with GNOME2 and 512 MB (in VirtualBox on the same computer) did at the time. Thus, I'm skeptical of the speed of Ubuntu with just 1 GB of memory. Keep in mind that most brand new PCs with 1 GB of memory had Windows XP pre-installed, and Ubuntu and its derivatives were considerably lighter in those days. While the Raspberry Pi has just 256-512 MB of memory, that is plenty given that its official OS is Debian. With no GUI or a very lightweight GUI, Debian runs well even on 10-year-old computers lacking resale value. Thus, Parallela should come with more memory to support a Ubuntu base or should come with a lighter distro. If I buy one, it won't be until there is great support for Debian or a distro based directly on Debian. While there are alternatives to the official setup, there's usually less support for these unofficial setups. In my experience from trying Linux distros, the edition with the official DE is the smoothest, most polished, and best-supported one. I currently have Snowlinux 4 Glacier with MATE installed on my main desktop computer, and it's MUCH better than the Xfce version (which I also tried). That's no surprise, as GNOME has always been the main DE for Snowlinux. The developers have more experience with GNOME2/MATE than with Xfce, and most of the users use MATE, so the MATE edition gets more support and attention than the Xfce edition. And the Linux Mint Debian Edition no longer offers the Xfce version, as few people were using it, and supporting the MATE and Cinnamon versions was a higher priority. -- Jason Hsu From mgreenly at gmail.com Mon Jun 10 13:59:21 2013 From: mgreenly at gmail.com (Michael Greenly) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 13:59:21 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A $99 Linux supercomputer has been built, will ship this summer In-Reply-To: <20130610130401.9e7c93d9a07cba9f6a6b8f8b@jasonhsu.com> References: <20130610130401.9e7c93d9a07cba9f6a6b8f8b@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: The current version of Ubuntu server has a minimum requirement of 128M according to the website. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SystemRequirements#Ubuntu_Server_.28CLI.29_Installation I've never tested Ubuntu with that little ram but I have been consistently using it on VMS with 500MB and it works very well in that environment. On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Jason Hsu wrote: > If the Parallela came with at least 2 GB of memory, then I'd be confident > that it could comfortably run Ubuntu or any Ubuntu-based distro. Keep in > mind that any new Dell desktop computer you can buy today comes with at > least 2 GB of memory, and any new Dell laptop computer you can buy today > comes with at least 4 GB of memory. Furthermore, you can upgrade the > memory on Dell desktop and laptop computers. (And I'm sure that most > people buying new desktop and laptop computers today get considerably more > than 2-4 GB of memory.) > > I've tried Ubuntu-based Linux Mint (with LXDE) and Xubuntu with 2 GB of > memory in VirtualBox (around late 2011), and they felt slower than Linux > Mint Debian Edition with GNOME2 and 512 MB (in VirtualBox on the same > computer) did at the time. Thus, I'm skeptical of the speed of Ubuntu with > just 1 GB of memory. Keep in mind that most brand new PCs with 1 GB of > memory had Windows XP pre-installed, and Ubuntu and its derivatives were > considerably lighter in those days. > > While the Raspberry Pi has just 256-512 MB of memory, that is plenty given > that its official OS is Debian. With no GUI or a very lightweight GUI, > Debian runs well even on 10-year-old computers lacking resale value. > > Thus, Parallela should come with more memory to support a Ubuntu base or > should come with a lighter distro. If I buy one, it won't be until there > is great support for Debian or a distro based directly on Debian. > > While there are alternatives to the official setup, there's usually less > support for these unofficial setups. In my experience from trying Linux > distros, the edition with the official DE is the smoothest, most polished, > and best-supported one. I currently have Snowlinux 4 Glacier with MATE > installed on my main desktop computer, and it's MUCH better than the Xfce > version (which I also tried). That's no surprise, as GNOME has always been > the main DE for Snowlinux. The developers have more experience with > GNOME2/MATE than with Xfce, and most of the users use MATE, so the MATE > edition gets more support and attention than the Xfce edition. And the > Linux Mint Debian Edition no longer offers the Xfce version, as few people > were using it, and supporting the MATE and Cinnamon versions was a higher > priority. > > -- > Jason Hsu > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Michael Greenly http://logic-refinery.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cncole at earthlink.net Mon Jun 10 14:59:09 2013 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 14:59:09 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A $99 Linux supercomputer has been built, will ship this summer In-Reply-To: References: <20130607232545.cca0321b4391d1391dd63002@jasonhsu.com><51B372CC.7010604@pinenet.com> Message-ID: _____ From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Erik Anderson Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 8:48 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A $99 Linux supercomputer has been built, will ship this summer On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 9:58 PM, Mike Miller wrote: If his enthusiasm sometimes causes him to make incorrect statements, then feel free to correct him, just like we correct everyone else. I have. Others have as well, apparently to no effect. Yaron told him on 6/8 that the ARM version of Ubuntu uses a small memory model and that didn't sink in at all. Chuck -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erikerik at gmail.com Mon Jun 10 15:03:23 2013 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 15:03:23 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A $99 Linux supercomputer has been built, will ship this summer In-Reply-To: References: <20130607232545.cca0321b4391d1391dd63002@jasonhsu.com> <51B372CC.7010604@pinenet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 2:59 PM, Chuck Cole wrote: > Yaron told him on 6/8 that the ARM version of Ubuntu uses a small memory > model and that didn't sink in at all. One interesting thing I noticed on this: On the Parallela website, they state in their FAQ that they're shipping a CLI-only version of Ubuntu. Given the intended use case for this, that seems completely reasonable. If I were purchasing a piece of hardware intended to enable parallel computing software developement, I certainly wouldn't want a GUI sitting around sucking resources. However, in their kickstarter video, they highlight its use as a HTPC/browsing machine, which obviously requires X. They likely included the GUI bits in their video to hook more backers on kickstarter, which I think is a bit disingenuous for the expresses goal of the board. -Erik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryan.c.dunlop at gmail.com Mon Jun 10 15:12:15 2013 From: ryan.c.dunlop at gmail.com (Ryan Dunlop) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 15:12:15 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A $99 Linux supercomputer has been built, will ship this summer In-Reply-To: References: <20130607232545.cca0321b4391d1391dd63002@jasonhsu.com> <51B372CC.7010604@pinenet.com> Message-ID: I run a Ubuntu 12.04 install in vmware player with 1GB memory using Unity. Runs just fine. Smooth, no stutter can run chromium with a dozen plus tabs with firefox for the our firewall gui, thunderbird, a handful of terminals and music...blah blah blah... Not going into the whole Unity good/bad game played by the Linux communities at large mainly cause I couldn't care less, it's not my main machine and just trying to keep tabs on what they're doing but it does run just fine below the 2GB range. On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 3:03 PM, Erik Anderson wrote: > On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 2:59 PM, Chuck Cole wrote: > >> Yaron told him on 6/8 that the ARM version of Ubuntu uses a small memory >> model and that didn't sink in at all. > > > One interesting thing I noticed on this: > > On the Parallela website, they state in their FAQ that they're shipping a > CLI-only version of Ubuntu. Given the intended use case for this, that > seems completely reasonable. If I were purchasing a piece of hardware > intended to enable parallel computing software developement, I certainly > wouldn't want a GUI sitting around sucking resources. > > However, in their kickstarter video, they highlight its use as a > HTPC/browsing machine, which obviously requires X. > > They likely included the GUI bits in their video to hook more backers on > kickstarter, which I think is a bit disingenuous for the expresses goal of > the board. > > -Erik > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eng at pinenet.com Mon Jun 10 18:27:55 2013 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 18:27:55 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A $99 Linux supercomputer has been built, will ship this summer In-Reply-To: References: <20130607232545.cca0321b4391d1391dd63002@jasonhsu.com> <51B372CC.7010604@pinenet.com> Message-ID: <51B660FB.7020805@pinenet.com> Perhaps the XServer will be part of the monitor, instead of combined into the computer motherboard. Unix and Linux have a confusing graphical user interface. Originally, a terminal was connected to a mainframe over RS232 slow lines. All the terminal did was send characters to the mainframe that did all the thinking, then sent back encoded display characters. This model persists even today with concepts like "controlling terminal," "pseudo-terminal," "background jobs,""session," etc. Then faster ethernet emerged, along with high resolution color displays, and the XServer is really a separate network entity from the operating system; both technically and legally. There is no reason the XServer and graphics chips can't or even should not exist on the display + screen itself. Why fling around all that high frequency EM noise when just pushing a mouse with a button?? There might be some serious innovation going on here. No reason to lug around graphics in a microdevice when a simple plug-in to an X display might offer more flexibility. Then a comfortable resource intensive OS might make complete sense. Erik Anderson wrote: > On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 2:59 PM, Chuck Cole wrote: > >> Yaron told him on 6/8 that the ARM version of Ubuntu uses a small memory >> model and that didn't sink in at all. > > > One interesting thing I noticed on this: > > On the Parallela website, they state in their FAQ that they're shipping a > CLI-only version of Ubuntu. Given the intended use case for this, that > seems completely reasonable. If I were purchasing a piece of hardware > intended to enable parallel computing software developement, I certainly > wouldn't want a GUI sitting around sucking resources. > > However, in their kickstarter video, they highlight its use as a > HTPC/browsing machine, which obviously requires X. > > They likely included the GUI bits in their video to hook more backers on > kickstarter, which I think is a bit disingenuous for the expresses goal of > the board. > > -Erik > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Tue Jun 11 07:24:34 2013 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 07:24:34 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] trying to pair openswan to sonicwall Message-ID: up to now i've blissfully evaded ipsec. but yow now here goes. on my end i've just installed raring openswan 1:2.6.38-1. the remote site has a sonicwall NSA 240. quite likely i should be finding some shared secret or something like that in the sonicwall and configuring that in openswan somehow. i'm sure there's no point in any rant about profuse useless documentation rendering googling ineffective. so far i've added this to /etc/ipsec.conf: interfaces=%defaultroute oe=no rekey=no nhelpers=0 conn sonicwall type=tunnel auto=start authby=secret keyingtries=1 left=%defaultroute leftsubnet=192.168.0.0/24 right=209.1.2.3 rightsubnet=192.168.1.0/24 meanwhile start ipsec yields Aborted (core dumped) failed to start openswan IKE daemon - the following error occured: addconn: /build/buildd/openswan-2.6.38/lib/libipsecconf/confread.c:256: load_setup: Assertion `kw->keyword.keydef->validity & kv_config' failed. any help? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Tue Jun 11 07:44:06 2013 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 07:44:06 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] trying to pair openswan to sonicwall In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > up to now i've blissfully evaded ipsec. but yow now here goes. on my end > i've just installed raring openswan 1:2.6.38-1. the remote site has a > sonicwall NSA 240. quite likely i should be finding some shared secret or > something like that in the sonicwall and configuring that in openswan > somehow. i'm sure there's no point in any rant about profuse useless > documentation rendering googling ineffective. so far i've added this to > /etc/ipsec.conf: > interfaces=%defaultroute protostack=netkey oe=no nhelpers=0 conn sonicwall > type=tunnel > auto=start > authby=secret > keyingtries=1 > left=%defaultroute > leftsubnet=192.168.0.0/24 > right=209.1.2.3 > rightsubnet=192.168.1.0/24 > it starts up now, still looking for how to connect.. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Tue Jun 11 08:01:42 2013 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 08:01:42 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] trying to pair openswan to sonicwall In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > up to now i've blissfully evaded ipsec. but yow now here goes. on my >> end i've just installed raring openswan 1:2.6.38-1. the remote site has a >> sonicwall NSA 240. quite likely i should be finding some shared secret or >> something like that in the sonicwall and configuring that in openswan >> somehow. >> > seems the sonicwall has a couple GroupVPN policies defined but not enabled. likely more relevant, it seems to have a self signed *HTTPS Management Certificate. *i'm still groping for how to poke openswan to talk to it.. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Tue Jun 11 09:07:57 2013 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 09:07:57 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] trying to pair openswan to sonicwall In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > up to now i've blissfully evaded ipsec. but yow now here goes. on my >>> end i've just installed raring openswan 1:2.6.38-1. the remote site has a >>> sonicwall NSA 240. quite likely i should be finding some shared secret or >>> something like that in the sonicwall and configuring that in openswan >>> somehow. >>> >> > seems the sonicwall has a couple GroupVPN policies defined but not > enabled. likely more relevant, it seems to have a self signed *HTTPS > Management Certificate. *i'm still groping for how to poke openswan to > talk to it.. > i'm still guessing i ought to find the public key for the sonicwall and plug that into rightrsasigkey, but i have yet to find where to pull it out of the NSA 240.. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Tue Jun 11 09:33:23 2013 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 09:33:23 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] trying to pair openswan to sonicwall In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: has the configuration of tclug-list changed? when i clicked reply, the reply was addressed to thomas, and not to the list. or, i have to say google has a poor record of frequently frobbling things in gmail.. On 11 June 2013 09:18, Thomas Lunde wrote: > I don't have anything useful to contribute, but want to encourage you to > keep posting to the list about this. > > I've been ignorant of IPSec, but I need to learn it someday, so I'm > interested. > thanks for the encouragement.. > up to now i've blissfully evaded ipsec. but yow now here goes. on my >>>> end i've just installed raring openswan 1:2.6.38-1. the remote site has a >>>> sonicwall NSA 240. quite likely i should be finding some shared secret or >>>> something like that in the sonicwall and configuring that in openswan >>>> somehow. >>>> >>> >> seems the sonicwall has a couple GroupVPN policies defined but not >> enabled. likely more relevant, it seems to have a self signed *HTTPS >> Management Certificate. *i'm still groping for how to poke openswan to >> talk to it.. >> > > i'm still guessing i ought to find the public key for the sonicwall and > plug that into rightrsasigkey, but i have yet to find where to pull it out > of the NSA 240.. > > should i be using strongswan? tho, even if so, i'm guessing i still need to somehow summon a public key out of the NSA 240.. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com Tue Jun 11 10:56:49 2013 From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 10:56:49 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux in a Yahoo article (13 Things That Seem Like Scams But Are Actually Really Great) Message-ID: <20130611105649.c7acffb2955b333caee8d119@jasonhsu.com> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/13-things-seem-scams-actually-144707736.html Check out #8. While I don't think Ubuntu is a good choice for Linux newbies (unless they know how to navigate Windows 8), the fact remains that there plenty of alternatives: Mint, Mageia, Puppy, antiX, Snowlinux, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu, Fedora, OpenSUSE, and many others. -- Jason Hsu From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Tue Jun 11 13:41:02 2013 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 18:41:02 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] (no subject) Message-ID: Jason Hsu: > http://finance.yahoo.com/news/13-things-seem-scams-actually-144707736.html > > Check out #8. While I don't think Ubuntu is a good choice for Linux newbies (unless they know how to > navigate Windows 8), the fact remains that there plenty of alternatives: Mint, Mageia, Puppy, antiX, > Snowlinux, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu, Fedora, OpenSUSE, and many others. I think Fedora is bloated. I switched to Arch Linux and like it more than Fedora. -- Brian Wood Ebenezer Enterprises - How's that hopey, changey thing working out for ya? http://webEbenezer.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Jun 11 19:03:31 2013 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 19:03:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] memory upgrade nightmare -- Asus netbook 1025C Message-ID: I told my wife she should get a 2GB memory stick for her netbook and would install it for her. I had done this on my own Asus EeePC netbook, so how hard could it be? Well, it was a huge hassle. It might have taken me 30 minutes to do it, which is surprisingly fast considering the complexity of the operation. Thank goodness I had this video to show me the way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci3w3jvJIpA Just be sure you keep very close track of which screw goes where because they are almost all different lengths. Basically, you have to disassemble the whole darned thing, remove the keyboard, the HDD, WiFi and motherboard to get at the RAM. I did it and it worked, but that was not what I would have wanted. I won't buy a laptop/netbook that doesn't have an easier way to upgrade memory. Mike From tclug at freakzilla.com Tue Jun 11 19:17:32 2013 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 19:17:32 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] memory upgrade nightmare -- Asus netbook 1025C In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yeesh. Probably doesn't help you AT ALL but this is completely different bettween machines. I've not seen one in a long time that makes it that complicated, and I have a Mac! On Tue, 11 Jun 2013, Mike Miller wrote: > I told my wife she should get a 2GB memory stick for her netbook and would > install it for her. I had done this on my own Asus EeePC netbook, so how > hard could it be? Well, it was a huge hassle. It might have taken me 30 > minutes to do it, which is surprisingly fast considering the complexity of > the operation. Thank goodness I had this video to show me the way: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci3w3jvJIpA > > Just be sure you keep very close track of which screw goes where because they > are almost all different lengths. > > Basically, you have to disassemble the whole darned thing, remove the > keyboard, the HDD, WiFi and motherboard to get at the RAM. I did it and it > worked, but that was not what I would have wanted. I won't buy a > laptop/netbook that doesn't have an easier way to upgrade memory. > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Jun 12 01:57:31 2013 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 01:57:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] memory upgrade nightmare -- Asus netbook 1025C In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My Asus EeePC 1005HA has a little door on the back for access to the RAM. Much, much, much easier than the 1025C. What was Asus thinking? One big problem -- my wife's little company bought 10 of these 1025C netbooks with 1 GB RAM in each and they wish they could upgrade all 10 of them to 2 GB. I'm not going to do it! Mike On Tue, 11 Jun 2013, Yaron wrote: > Yeesh. > > Probably doesn't help you AT ALL but this is completely different > bettween machines. I've not seen one in a long time that makes it that > complicated, and I have a Mac! > > On Tue, 11 Jun 2013, Mike Miller wrote: > >> I told my wife she should get a 2GB memory stick for her netbook and >> would install it for her. I had done this on my own Asus EeePC >> netbook, so how hard could it be? Well, it was a huge hassle. It >> might have taken me 30 minutes to do it, which is surprisingly fast >> considering the complexity of the operation. Thank goodness I had this >> video to show me the way: >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci3w3jvJIpA >> >> Just be sure you keep very close track of which screw goes where >> because they are almost all different lengths. >> >> Basically, you have to disassemble the whole darned thing, remove the >> keyboard, the HDD, WiFi and motherboard to get at the RAM. I did it >> and it worked, but that was not what I would have wanted. I won't buy >> a laptop/netbook that doesn't have an easier way to upgrade memory. >> >> Mike From andyzib at gmail.com Wed Jun 12 15:42:58 2013 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 15:42:58 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] memory upgrade nightmare -- Asus netbook 1025C In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > Just be sure you keep very close track of which screw goes where because > they are almost all different lengths. > A piece of paper and some poster putty is a great way to keep track of those little screws. Remove a screw, stick it to the poster putty and stick the putty to the paper in the same area the screw goes into the laptop. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Wed Jun 12 16:13:53 2013 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 16:13:53 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] memory upgrade nightmare -- Asus netbook 1025C In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That's a great idea. I usually just arrange them on the table/desk/work surface according to where they were because I'm not going to get up and go get poster putty (: I usually have magnets lying around though, sometimes they're big enough to arrange tiny screws on... On Wed, 12 Jun 2013, Andrew S. Zbikowski wrote: > Just be sure you keep very close track of which screw goes where > because they are almost all different lengths. > > > A piece of paper and some poster putty is a great way to keep track of those > little screws. Remove a screw, stick it to the poster putty and stick the > putty to the paper in the same area the screw goes into the laptop.? > > > From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Jun 12 16:17:34 2013 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 16:17:34 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] memory upgrade nightmare -- Asus netbook 1025C In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Jun 2013, Andrew S. Zbikowski wrote: >> Just be sure you keep very close track of which screw goes where >> because they are almost all different lengths. > > A piece of paper and some poster putty is a great way to keep track of > those little screws. Remove a screw, stick it to the poster putty and > stick the putty to the paper in the same area the screw goes into the > laptop. Sounds like a good tip. I just arranged them on the table in a certain way. That worked, but only because nobody interrupted me for long and nobody bumped my table. I was a little worried about that. Mike From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Wed Jun 12 17:48:29 2013 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 17:48:29 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] trying to pair openswan to sonicwall In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: while the sonicwall may have ipsec capability, it turns out what i'm supposed to be using is what it calls "SSL VPN", which really means pppd, embedded in sonicwall's "netextender", which has to be downloaded after logging into the proper port. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Wed Jun 12 18:27:54 2013 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 18:27:54 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] 192.168.1.0/24 not forwarding Message-ID: 192.168.1.0/24 is not forwarding through my precise box, or at least i think that's the problem that's eluding me now. my cable modem plugs into eth0 on my precise box, and eth1 provides internet connectivity to my LAN, 192.168.0.0/24. thereby both my precise and my raring boxes can ping the outside world, eg 8.8.8.8. the precise box also has a pppd tunnel, via which it can ping 192.168.1.114. i was expecting my raring box to hit that address through the same tunnel, but no such luck so far, and i don't see why not. any help? precise box: route -n Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface 0.0.0.0 69.180.166.1 0.0.0.0 UG 100 0 0 eth0 69.180.166.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.254.0 U 0 0 0 eth0 169.254.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.0.0 U 1000 0 0 eth1 192.0.2.1 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 ppp0 192.168.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth1 192.168.1.0 192.168.1.155 255.255.255.0 UG 0 0 0 ppp0 209.173.221.94 69.180.166.1 255.255.255.255 UGH 0 0 0 eth0 raring box: route -n Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface 0.0.0.0 192.168.0.6 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 eth0 10.0.3.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 lxcbr0 169.254.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.0.0 U 1000 0 0 eth0 192.168.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 1 0 0 eth0 raring comes with something called "ufw", to which i said "stop ufw". no change. i do have a homebrew iptables firewall on the precise box. purging it didn't help either. any ideas? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mattwj2002 at gmail.com Wed Jun 12 19:03:01 2013 From: mattwj2002 at gmail.com (Matthew Junk) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 19:03:01 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] 192.168.1.0/24 not forwarding In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Is your default gateway right for the 192.168.1.0/24 network? My two cents. :) On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 6:27 PM, gregrwm wrote: > 192.168.1.0/24 is not forwarding through my precise box, or at least i > think that's the problem that's eluding me now. > > my cable modem plugs into eth0 on my precise box, and eth1 provides > internet connectivity to my LAN, 192.168.0.0/24. thereby both my precise > and my raring boxes can ping the outside world, eg 8.8.8.8. > > the precise box also has a pppd tunnel, via which it can ping > 192.168.1.114. i was expecting my raring box to hit that address through > the same tunnel, but no such luck so far, and i don't see why not. any > help? > > precise box: route -n > Kernel IP routing table > Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use > Iface > 0.0.0.0 69.180.166.1 0.0.0.0 UG 100 0 0 > eth0 > 69.180.166.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.254.0 U 0 0 0 > eth0 > 169.254.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.0.0 U 1000 0 0 > eth1 > 192.0.2.1 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 > ppp0 > 192.168.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 > eth1 > 192.168.1.0 192.168.1.155 255.255.255.0 UG 0 0 0 > ppp0 > 209.173.221.94 69.180.166.1 255.255.255.255 UGH 0 0 0 > eth0 > > raring box: route -n > Kernel IP routing table > Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use > Iface > 0.0.0.0 192.168.0.6 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 > eth0 > 10.0.3.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 > lxcbr0 > 169.254.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.0.0 U 1000 0 0 > eth0 > 192.168.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 1 0 0 > eth0 > > raring comes with something called "ufw", to which i said "stop ufw". no > change. i do have a homebrew iptables firewall on the precise box. > purging it didn't help either. any ideas? > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Wed Jun 12 19:38:58 2013 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 19:38:58 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] 192.168.1.0/24 not forwarding In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > Is your default gateway right for the 192.168.1.0/24 network? > the raring box routes everything to the precise box, and the precise box can ping everything fine, so .... ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Wed Jun 12 21:25:15 2013 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (B-o-B De Mars) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 21:25:15 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] 192.168.1.0/24 not forwarding In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51B92D8B.1080603@gmail.com> On 6/12/2013 7:38 PM, gregrwm wrote:: > Is your default gateway right for the 192.168.1.0/24 > network? > > > the raring box routes everything to the precise box, and the precise box > can ping everything fine, so .... ? That doesn't mean your routing table isn't jacked up though. From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Wed Jun 12 22:26:22 2013 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 22:26:22 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: 192.168.1.0/24 not forwarding In-Reply-To: References: <51B92D8B.1080603@gmail.com> Message-ID: >> Is your default gateway right for the 192.168.1.0/24 >> network? >> >> the raring box routes everything to the precise box, and the precise box >> can ping everything fine, so .... ? > > That doesn't mean your routing table isn't jacked up though. route -n outputs are in the OP, how do they look to you? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Thu Jun 13 20:40:22 2013 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 20:40:22 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: drac console In-Reply-To: References: <51B7AAFE.7030003@gmail.com> Message-ID: does anybody connect to dell drac5 from ubuntu firefox? what's the trick? http://projects.nuschkys.net/2011/08/11/dell-dracremote-console-discoveries/ the above page suggests that ubuntu's icetea java plugin needs to be substituted by the sun java plugin. but i can't find any sun java plugin in the raring repos. perhaps i should be looking somewhere else? or falling back to an earlier ubuntu? where/which? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpschewe at mtu.net Thu Jun 13 21:16:51 2013 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 21:16:51 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: drac console In-Reply-To: References: <51B7AAFE.7030003@gmail.com> Message-ID: Does the drac5 run a full webserver and you're just trying to get to the console? I've got a drac7 and to launch the console app I get a jnlp file, which is for java webstart. I've been unable to get it to work directly from my browser, so what I do is download the jnlp file and then execute javaws and it works as long as I don't wait longer than 30 seconds to execute it because the login credentials timeout. On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 8:40 PM, gregrwm wrote: > does anybody connect to dell drac5 from ubuntu firefox? what's the trick? > > > http://projects.nuschkys.net/2011/08/11/dell-dracremote-console-discoveries/ > > the above page suggests that ubuntu's icetea java plugin needs to be > substituted by the sun java plugin. but i can't find any sun java plugin > in the raring repos. perhaps i should be looking somewhere else? or > falling back to an earlier ubuntu? where/which? > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- http://mtu.net/~jpschewe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Thu Jun 13 23:46:37 2013 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 23:46:37 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: drac console In-Reply-To: References: <51B7AAFE.7030003@gmail.com> Message-ID: sounds plausible for drac5 too.. from whence do you download that jnlp file? perhaps it "offers" for you to download it? the way it (doesn't) work for me is when i click the "Console" tab it shows a spinning hourglass image followed by "Loading the Console Redirection Plug-in...", but nothing further happens. On 13 June 2013 21:16, Jon Schewe wrote: > Does the drac5 run a full webserver and you're just trying to get to the > console? I've got a drac7 and to launch the console app I get a jnlp file, > which is for java webstart. I've been unable to get it to work directly > from my browser, so what I do is download the jnlp file and then execute > javaws and it works as long as I don't wait longer than 30 > seconds to execute it because the login credentials timeout. > > > On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 8:40 PM, gregrwm wrote: > >> does anybody connect to dell drac5 from ubuntu firefox? what's the trick? >> >> >> http://projects.nuschkys.net/2011/08/11/dell-dracremote-console-discoveries/ >> >> the above page suggests that ubuntu's icetea java plugin needs to be >> substituted by the sun java plugin. but i can't find any sun java plugin >> in the raring repos. perhaps i should be looking somewhere else? or >> falling back to an earlier ubuntu? where/which? >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From loren.burlingame at gmail.com Thu Jun 13 23:51:14 2013 From: loren.burlingame at gmail.com (Loren Burlingame) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 23:51:14 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: drac console In-Reply-To: References: <51B7AAFE.7030003@gmail.com> Message-ID: You are probably trying to use native mode. Need to switch it to java mode. On Jun 13, 2013 11:47 PM, "gregrwm" wrote: > sounds plausible for drac5 too.. from whence do you download that jnlp > file? perhaps it "offers" for you to download it? the way it (doesn't) > work for me is when i click the "Console" tab it shows a spinning hourglass > image followed by "Loading the Console Redirection Plug-in...", but nothing > further happens. > > > On 13 June 2013 21:16, Jon Schewe wrote: > >> Does the drac5 run a full webserver and you're just trying to get to the >> console? I've got a drac7 and to launch the console app I get a jnlp file, >> which is for java webstart. I've been unable to get it to work directly >> from my browser, so what I do is download the jnlp file and then execute >> javaws and it works as long as I don't wait longer than 30 >> seconds to execute it because the login credentials timeout. >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 8:40 PM, gregrwm wrote: >> >>> does anybody connect to dell drac5 from ubuntu firefox? what's the >>> trick? >>> >>> >>> http://projects.nuschkys.net/2011/08/11/dell-dracremote-console-discoveries/ >>> >>> the above page suggests that ubuntu's icetea java plugin needs to be >>> substituted by the sun java plugin. but i can't find any sun java plugin >>> in the raring repos. perhaps i should be looking somewhere else? or >>> falling back to an earlier ubuntu? where/which? >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Thu Jun 13 23:59:26 2013 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 23:59:26 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: drac console In-Reply-To: References: <51B7AAFE.7030003@gmail.com> Message-ID: where is that switch? On 13 June 2013 23:51, Loren Burlingame wrote: > You are probably trying to use native mode. Need to switch it to java mode. > > On Jun 13, 2013 11:47 PM, "gregrwm" wrote: > >> sounds plausible for drac5 too.. from whence do you download that jnlp >> file? perhaps it "offers" for you to download it? the way it (doesn't) >> work for me is when i click the "Console" tab it shows a spinning hourglass >> image followed by "Loading the Console Redirection Plug-in...", but nothing >> further happens. >> >> >> On 13 June 2013 21:16, Jon Schewe wrote: >> >>> Does the drac5 run a full webserver and you're just trying to get to the >>> console? I've got a drac7 and to launch the console app I get a jnlp file, >>> which is for java webstart. I've been unable to get it to work directly >>> from my browser, so what I do is download the jnlp file and then execute >>> javaws and it works as long as I don't wait longer than 30 >>> seconds to execute it because the login credentials timeout. >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 8:40 PM, gregrwm wrote: >>> >>>> does anybody connect to dell drac5 from ubuntu firefox? what's the >>>> trick? >>>> >>>> >>>> http://projects.nuschkys.net/2011/08/11/dell-dracremote-console-discoveries/ >>>> >>>> the above page suggests that ubuntu's icetea java plugin needs to be >>>> substituted by the sun java plugin. but i can't find any sun java plugin >>>> in the raring repos. perhaps i should be looking somewhere else? or >>>> falling back to an earlier ubuntu? where/which? >>>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Chase at TonkaTelTec.com Fri Jun 14 00:04:54 2013 From: Chase at TonkaTelTec.com (Chase Remmen) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 05:04:54 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: drac console In-Reply-To: References: <51B7AAFE.7030003@gmail.com> , Message-ID: <1409A659-E876-4011-9BBD-BD2A47A9C8BE@TonkaTelTec.com> Console Tab at the bottom of the page On Jun 14, 2013, at 12:00 AM, "gregrwm" > wrote: where is that switch? On 13 June 2013 23:51, Loren Burlingame > wrote: You are probably trying to use native mode. Need to switch it to java mode. On Jun 13, 2013 11:47 PM, "gregrwm" > wrote: sounds plausible for drac5 too.. from whence do you download that jnlp file? perhaps it "offers" for you to download it? the way it (doesn't) work for me is when i click the "Console" tab it shows a spinning hourglass image followed by "Loading the Console Redirection Plug-in...", but nothing further happens. On 13 June 2013 21:16, Jon Schewe > wrote: Does the drac5 run a full webserver and you're just trying to get to the console? I've got a drac7 and to launch the console app I get a jnlp file, which is for java webstart. I've been unable to get it to work directly from my browser, so what I do is download the jnlp file and then execute javaws and it works as long as I don't wait longer than 30 seconds to execute it because the login credentials timeout. On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 8:40 PM, gregrwm > wrote: does anybody connect to dell drac5 from ubuntu firefox? what's the trick? http://projects.nuschkys.net/2011/08/11/dell-dracremote-console-discoveries/ the above page suggests that ubuntu's icetea java plugin needs to be substituted by the sun java plugin. but i can't find any sun java plugin in the raring repos. perhaps i should be looking somewhere else? or falling back to an earlier ubuntu? where/which? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Fri Jun 14 05:42:08 2013 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 05:42:08 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: drac console In-Reply-To: References: <51B7AAFE.7030003@gmail.com> Message-ID: aha: update drac firmware..! On 13 June 2013 23:59, gregrwm wrote: > where is that switch? > > > On 13 June 2013 23:51, Loren Burlingame wrote: > >> You are probably trying to use native mode. Need to switch it to java >> mode. >> >> On Jun 13, 2013 11:47 PM, "gregrwm" wrote: >> >>> sounds plausible for drac5 too.. from whence do you download that jnlp >>> file? perhaps it "offers" for you to download it? the way it (doesn't) >>> work for me is when i click the "Console" tab it shows a spinning hourglass >>> image followed by "Loading the Console Redirection Plug-in...", but nothing >>> further happens. >>> >>> >>> On 13 June 2013 21:16, Jon Schewe wrote: >>> >>>> Does the drac5 run a full webserver and you're just trying to get to >>>> the console? I've got a drac7 and to launch the console app I get a jnlp >>>> file, which is for java webstart. I've been unable to get it to work >>>> directly from my browser, so what I do is download the jnlp file and then >>>> execute javaws and it works as long as I don't wait longer than >>>> 30 seconds to execute it because the login credentials timeout. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 8:40 PM, gregrwm wrote: >>>> >>>>> does anybody connect to dell drac5 from ubuntu firefox? what's the >>>>> trick? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://projects.nuschkys.net/2011/08/11/dell-dracremote-console-discoveries/ >>>>> >>>>> the above page suggests that ubuntu's icetea java plugin needs to be >>>>> substituted by the sun java plugin. but i can't find any sun java plugin >>>>> in the raring repos. perhaps i should be looking somewhere else? or >>>>> falling back to an earlier ubuntu? where/which? >>>>> >>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dowens12741 at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jun 14 07:04:07 2013 From: dowens12741 at yahoo.co.uk (David Owens) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 13:04:07 +0100 (BST) Subject: [tclug-list] Fail to detect external monitor VGA1 Message-ID: <1371211447.1942.YahooMailNeo@web172606.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> I come across to read the thread at?http://archives.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/2013-January/062818.html I have the same problem that after video driver is installed with packages bumblebee and bumblebee-nvidia. Command `xrandr -q` doesn't detect VGA1 monitor, only showing VGA1 disconnected.? BIOS driver is configured to? Boot Display Device: ThinkPad LCD Graphics Device: NVIDIA Optmus OS Detection for NVIDIA Optimus: Disabled Changing Graphics Device to Discrete Graphics will have Xorg.0.log logged with message something like "Fail to load module nv".? arandr also shows LVDS as well.? How can I detect external monitor?? I appreciate any suggestion. Thank you. Os: debian amd64 (testing jessie) Kernel: 3.2.04 rt laptop: w530 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Fri Jun 14 09:41:42 2013 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 09:41:42 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Shrinking a partition Message-ID: Has anyone ever used gparted (or any other program) to shrink an existing ext4 partition? All the documentation online is for enlarging them. I had to use a large HDD temporarily for a system build because the SSD was dying. Now that I have a new SSD I tried using clonezilla to clone it back, but of course it complains the drive is too big... the system only uses about 8 gigsso there's technically plenty of room, I just dn't feel like doing this manually. Anyone have any hints/suggestions? -Yaron -- From loren.burlingame at gmail.com Fri Jun 14 09:53:16 2013 From: loren.burlingame at gmail.com (Loren Burlingame) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 09:53:16 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: drac console In-Reply-To: References: <51B7AAFE.7030003@gmail.com> Message-ID: I believe it is one or two tabs further to the right of the console tab. On Jun 14, 2013 12:00 AM, "gregrwm" wrote: > where is that switch? > > > On 13 June 2013 23:51, Loren Burlingame wrote: > >> You are probably trying to use native mode. Need to switch it to java >> mode. >> >> On Jun 13, 2013 11:47 PM, "gregrwm" wrote: >> >>> sounds plausible for drac5 too.. from whence do you download that jnlp >>> file? perhaps it "offers" for you to download it? the way it (doesn't) >>> work for me is when i click the "Console" tab it shows a spinning hourglass >>> image followed by "Loading the Console Redirection Plug-in...", but nothing >>> further happens. >>> >>> >>> On 13 June 2013 21:16, Jon Schewe wrote: >>> >>>> Does the drac5 run a full webserver and you're just trying to get to >>>> the console? I've got a drac7 and to launch the console app I get a jnlp >>>> file, which is for java webstart. I've been unable to get it to work >>>> directly from my browser, so what I do is download the jnlp file and then >>>> execute javaws and it works as long as I don't wait longer than >>>> 30 seconds to execute it because the login credentials timeout. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 8:40 PM, gregrwm wrote: >>>> >>>>> does anybody connect to dell drac5 from ubuntu firefox? what's the >>>>> trick? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://projects.nuschkys.net/2011/08/11/dell-dracremote-console-discoveries/ >>>>> >>>>> the above page suggests that ubuntu's icetea java plugin needs to be >>>>> substituted by the sun java plugin. but i can't find any sun java plugin >>>>> in the raring repos. perhaps i should be looking somewhere else? or >>>>> falling back to an earlier ubuntu? where/which? >>>>> >>>> > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chrome at real-time.com Fri Jun 14 09:54:00 2013 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 10:54:00 -0400 Subject: [tclug-list] Shrinking a partition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130614145400.GA48666@real-time.com> On 06/14 09:41 , Yaron wrote: > Has anyone ever used gparted (or any other program) to shrink an > existing ext4 partition? All the documentation online is for > enlarging them. man resize2fs -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From tclug at freakzilla.com Fri Jun 14 10:01:21 2013 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 10:01:21 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Shrinking a partition In-Reply-To: <20130614145400.GA48666@real-time.com> References: <20130614145400.GA48666@real-time.com> Message-ID: ...brought ot you by the "How The Hell Did I Miss That?" department... (; On Fri, 14 Jun 2013, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > On 06/14 09:41 , Yaron wrote: >> Has anyone ever used gparted (or any other program) to shrink an >> existing ext4 partition? All the documentation online is for >> enlarging them. > > man resize2fs > > -- > Carl Soderstrom > Systems Administrator > Real-Time Enterprises > www.real-time.com > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From SMiller05 at sjm.com Fri Jun 14 10:02:12 2013 From: SMiller05 at sjm.com (Miller, Seth) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 15:02:12 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Shrinking a partition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Resizing a partition and resizing a filesystem are two different things and the latter must be done before the former. This communication, including any attachments, may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential or legally exempt from disclosure. If you are not a named addressee, you are hereby notified that you are not authorized to read, print, retain a copy of or disseminate any portion of this communication without the consent of the sender and that doing so may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender via return e-mail and delete it from your system. From tclug at freakzilla.com Fri Jun 14 10:29:46 2013 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 10:29:46 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Shrinking a partition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Jun 2013, Miller, Seth wrote: > Resizing a partition and resizing a filesystem are two different things and the latter must be done before the former. Yeah, after that I used gparted.... several times. From SMiller05 at sjm.com Fri Jun 14 10:32:41 2013 From: SMiller05 at sjm.com (Miller, Seth) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 15:32:41 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Shrinking a partition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would suggest using LVM2. Much easier to resize both ways. This communication, including any attachments, may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential or legally exempt from disclosure. If you are not a named addressee, you are hereby notified that you are not authorized to read, print, retain a copy of or disseminate any portion of this communication without the consent of the sender and that doing so may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender via return e-mail and delete it from your system. From tclug at freakzilla.com Fri Jun 14 10:43:51 2013 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 10:43:51 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Shrinking a partition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Maybe next time (: This one's already done, machine's already booted from the SSD. On Fri, 14 Jun 2013, Miller, Seth wrote: > I would suggest using LVM2. Much easier to resize both ways. > > This communication, including any attachments, may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential or legally exempt from disclosure. If you are not a named addressee, you are hereby notified that you are not authorized to read, print, retain a copy of or disseminate any portion of this communication without the consent of the sender and that doing so may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender via return e-mail and delete it from your system. > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From stuporglue at gmail.com Fri Jun 14 10:51:55 2013 From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 10:51:55 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] New external 4TB hard drives -- Do I need a partition table? Message-ID: This feels like a dumb question, so bear with me. I just bought two new external 4TB hard drives. Is there a reason I need a partition table on the drives, or can I just format the whole device? I've had some USB thumb drives without a partition table and never had any problems with them. The disks will only be used for periodic data backups, only on Linux. Directly formatting the whole disk as ext4 seems slightly wrong, but I'm not sure why I'd need the partition table. Can someone enlighten me? Thanks, -- Michael Moore From SMiller05 at sjm.com Fri Jun 14 11:39:26 2013 From: SMiller05 at sjm.com (Miller, Seth) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 16:39:26 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] New external 4TB hard drives -- Do I need a partition table? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Michael, It's not a dumb question but the answer is that you should put a partition on the disk. The partition table does more than just carve up the disk. Even if you are using the entire disk, create a single partition on it first and format that with whatever file system you plan to use. Seriously look at using a volume manager like LVM2. It makes file system maintenance so much easier. This communication, including any attachments, may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential or legally exempt from disclosure. If you are not a named addressee, you are hereby notified that you are not authorized to read, print, retain a copy of or disseminate any portion of this communication without the consent of the sender and that doing so may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender via return e-mail and delete it from your system. From stuporglue at gmail.com Fri Jun 14 12:24:05 2013 From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 12:24:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] New external 4TB hard drives -- Do I need a partition table? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > It's not a dumb question but the answer is that you should put a partition on the disk. The partition table does more than just carve up the disk. Even if you are using the entire disk, create a single partition on it first and format that with whatever file system you plan to use. I know it carves up the disk, has flags indicating the partition type and other flags such as the boot flag. I suppose in the no-partition-table scenario Linux must use some sort of detection to figure out what file system is being used. Is there something else I'm missing? > Seriously look at using a volume manager like LVM2. It makes file system maintenance so much easier. I probably will next time I do a clean install, but I'm not sure what it would bring to a single external USB disk scenario. I plug these disks in once a month, rsync my family photos, videos, music, code and important documents, and unplug them again. -- Michael From Chase at TonkaTelTec.com Fri Jun 14 13:57:24 2013 From: Chase at TonkaTelTec.com (Chase Remmen) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 18:57:24 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: drac console In-Reply-To: References: <51B7AAFE.7030003@gmail.com> , Message-ID: It was actually in the console tab, but under configuration...Greg wasn't seeing it because that box was on on earlier DRAC Firmware version, and they hadn't incorporated it yet. Updated the the firmware and voila! He then had to accept the unsigned plugin, a known issue for Linux which was discussed in the release notes... We did get him in, however ran into an issue with the mouse and keyboard capture being super buggy, and when installing FreePBX, we kept getting hung at an area that required an Ctrl-alt-F1...to the colo we go to finish the install, as we need it up. Thanks! Chase Remmen Managing Director Tonka TelTec, LLC 612.315.6700 Main 763.250.8141 Cell chase at tonkateltec.com www.tonkateltec.com On Jun 14, 2013, at 9:53 AM, "Loren Burlingame" > wrote: I believe it is one or two tabs further to the right of the console tab. On Jun 14, 2013 12:00 AM, "gregrwm" > wrote: where is that switch? On 13 June 2013 23:51, Loren Burlingame > wrote: You are probably trying to use native mode. Need to switch it to java mode. On Jun 13, 2013 11:47 PM, "gregrwm" > wrote: sounds plausible for drac5 too.. from whence do you download that jnlp file? perhaps it "offers" for you to download it? the way it (doesn't) work for me is when i click the "Console" tab it shows a spinning hourglass image followed by "Loading the Console Redirection Plug-in...", but nothing further happens. On 13 June 2013 21:16, Jon Schewe > wrote: Does the drac5 run a full webserver and you're just trying to get to the console? I've got a drac7 and to launch the console app I get a jnlp file, which is for java webstart. I've been unable to get it to work directly from my browser, so what I do is download the jnlp file and then execute javaws and it works as long as I don't wait longer than 30 seconds to execute it because the login credentials timeout. On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 8:40 PM, gregrwm > wrote: does anybody connect to dell drac5 from ubuntu firefox? what's the trick? http://projects.nuschkys.net/2011/08/11/dell-dracremote-console-discoveries/ the above page suggests that ubuntu's icetea java plugin needs to be substituted by the sun java plugin. but i can't find any sun java plugin in the raring repos. perhaps i should be looking somewhere else? or falling back to an earlier ubuntu? where/which? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpschewe at mtu.net Fri Jun 14 21:04:08 2013 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 21:04:08 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: drac console In-Reply-To: References: <51B7AAFE.7030003@gmail.com> Message-ID: When I click on the link to "Launch Console" I'm presented with a download box from my browser. This is the jnlp file. On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 11:46 PM, gregrwm wrote: > sounds plausible for drac5 too.. from whence do you download that jnlp > file? perhaps it "offers" for you to download it? the way it (doesn't) > work for me is when i click the "Console" tab it shows a spinning hourglass > image followed by "Loading the Console Redirection Plug-in...", but nothing > further happens. > > > > On 13 June 2013 21:16, Jon Schewe wrote: > >> Does the drac5 run a full webserver and you're just trying to get to the >> console? I've got a drac7 and to launch the console app I get a jnlp file, >> which is for java webstart. I've been unable to get it to work directly >> from my browser, so what I do is download the jnlp file and then execute >> javaws and it works as long as I don't wait longer than 30 >> seconds to execute it because the login credentials timeout. >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 8:40 PM, gregrwm wrote: >> >>> does anybody connect to dell drac5 from ubuntu firefox? what's the >>> trick? >>> >>> >>> http://projects.nuschkys.net/2011/08/11/dell-dracremote-console-discoveries/ >>> >>> the above page suggests that ubuntu's icetea java plugin needs to be >>> substituted by the sun java plugin. but i can't find any sun java plugin >>> in the raring repos. perhaps i should be looking somewhere else? or >>> falling back to an earlier ubuntu? where/which? >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- http://mtu.net/~jpschewe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Fri Jun 21 14:57:16 2013 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 14:57:16 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Apple Magic Trackpad Message-ID: Has anyone here been able to get an Apple Magic Trackpad to work with Ubuntu? When I try to connect it via bluetooth, Ubuntu prompts me to enter a code on the trackpad... which... there is no way to do. I tried commandline connections but that just saysconnection refused. From bijoy.anose at gmail.com Fri Jun 21 15:42:52 2013 From: bijoy.anose at gmail.com (Bijoy Anose) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 15:42:52 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Apple Magic Trackpad In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I did have it working successfully at one point, Yaron. It took a lot of fiddling, but ultimately didn't require use of a PIN (explicitly, anyway). I wish I could remember the details, but it was a couple of years ago. The Bluetooth on my Dell laptop started to deteriorate at some point after that, and I just said screw it and started using it with my Macbook Air instead. >From what I remember, what ultimately worked was some combination of someone's experimental PPA, Synaptics drivers, cloves of garlic, and witch's blood. On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 2:57 PM, Yaron wrote: > Has anyone here been able to get an Apple Magic Trackpad to work with > Ubuntu? When I try to connect it via bluetooth, Ubuntu prompts me to enter > a code on the trackpad... which... there is no way to do. > > I tried commandline connections but that just saysconnection refused. > > > ______________________________**_________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Fri Jun 21 15:49:20 2013 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 15:49:20 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Apple Magic Trackpad In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Damn, all out of witch's blood. I wonder if I can use Hagraven feathers instead... Thanks for at least letting me know it /can/ be done! On Fri, 21 Jun 2013, Bijoy Anose wrote: > I did have it working successfully at one point, Yaron. ?It took a lot of > fiddling, but ultimately didn't require use of a PIN (explicitly, anyway). > ?I wish I could remember the details, but it was a couple of years ago. ?The > Bluetooth on my Dell laptop started to deteriorate at some point after that, > and I just said screw it and started using it with my Macbook Air instead. > From what I remember, what ultimately worked was some combination of > someone's experimental PPA, Synaptics drivers, cloves of garlic, and witch's > blood. > > > On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 2:57 PM, Yaron wrote: > Has anyone here been able to get an Apple Magic Trackpad to work > with Ubuntu? When I try to connect it via bluetooth, Ubuntu > prompts me to enter a code on the trackpad... which... there is > no way to do. > > I tried commandline connections but that just saysconnection > refused. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > From john.meier at gmail.com Fri Jun 21 16:29:43 2013 From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 16:29:43 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Apple Magic Trackpad In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 2:57 PM, Yaron wrote: > Has anyone here been able to get an Apple Magic Trackpad to work with > Ubuntu? When I try to connect it via bluetooth, Ubuntu prompts me to enter > a code on the trackpad... which... there is no way to do. > > I tried commandline connections but that just saysconnection refused. > > Have you tried these: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Multitouch/AppleMagicTrackpad#Pairing_the_Magic_Trackpad https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez/+bug/618838 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Fri Jun 21 16:35:14 2013 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 16:35:14 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Apple Magic Trackpad In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Jun 2013, John Meier wrote: > Have you tried these: Yup. Sadly both of those are fairly old (they're from 2010). I tried using the info in them anyway but it's either out of date or my results differ wildly... From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sat Jun 22 15:21:48 2013 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 15:21:48 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] 1 GB laptop RAM chip - yours free, if you can use it Message-ID: I'm not sure these are still of value out there. This chip was from an Asus EeePC 1025C netbook that I upgraded from 1 GB to 2 GB, so this is the original 1 GB chip. It says DDRIII 1GB-1333 on it. The thing is, maybe everything is coming with at least 1 GB these days and only one slot, so this thing won't find a home. On the other hand, maybe someone out there is using only 500 MB and could use this to upgrade. If no one wants it, I'll throw it out. I live at East Lake and 41st Ave South in Minneapolis. Mike From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Sat Jun 22 16:57:25 2013 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 21:57:25 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages Message-ID: Yesterday evening the power at my office went out and was off for about 8 hours. My APC UPS lasted for about 50 minutes of that. I'm thinking about buying a Duracell emergency power source. http://www.amazon.com/Duracell-DRPP600-Powerpack-Starter-Emergency/dp/B009YR00MI/ref=pd_sim_auto_5#productDetails The instructions for the APC UPS say to only plug it directly into a wall socket. I'm wondering if I could plug the Duracell thing into the APC UPS and then plug my computer stuff to that. The alternative is to use them one at a time and manually switch from the APC UPS to the Duracell thing when the APC UPS is almost dead. I was around last evening so it wouldn't have been a problem, but if chaining them would work, it wouldn't matter if I wasn't around. I'm also thinking about bicycle generator systems: http://www.pedalpowergenerator.com/ I've seen Frank and Amelia use something like that at the State Fair. What do you think? -- Brian Wood Ebenezer Enterprises - So far G-d has helped us. http://webEbenezer.net If you're thinking of buying something over the internet, you might want to buy it before the DFL taxes on online purchases kick in on July1st. I think prices will increase by 6.5% after that. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Sat Jun 22 16:59:47 2013 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 16:59:47 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51C61E53.6070208@me.com> IDK, that's not a lot of juice on that, Brian... What's the VAC rating of your UPS? My 1500 ran over 100 minutes when I turned off my server - it was at 23 minutes before that. On 6/22/2013 4:57 PM, Brian Wood wrote: > Yesterday evening the power at my office went out and was > off for about 8 hours. My APC UPS lasted for about 50 minutes > of that. I'm thinking about buying a Duracell emergency power > source. > http://www.amazon.com/Duracell-DRPP600-Powerpack-Starter-Emergency/dp/B009YR00MI/ref=pd_sim_auto_5#productDetails > > The instructions for the APC UPS say to only plug it directly > into a wall socket. I'm wondering if I could plug the Duracell > thing into the APC UPS and then plug my computer stuff to that. > > The alternative is to use them one at a time and manually switch > from the APC UPS to the Duracell thing when the APC UPS is almost > dead. I was around last evening so it wouldn't have been a problem, > but if chaining them would work, it wouldn't matter if I wasn't around. > > I'm also thinking about bicycle generator systems: > http://www.pedalpowergenerator.com/ > > I've seen Frank and Amelia use something like that at the State Fair. > > What do you think? > > -- > Brian Wood > Ebenezer Enterprises - So far G-d has helped us. > http://webEbenezer.net > > > If you're thinking of buying something over the internet, you might > want to buy it before the DFL taxes on online purchases kick in on > July1st. I think prices will increase by 6.5% after that. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Sat Jun 22 18:02:25 2013 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 18:02:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] sudo hardening Message-ID: this is one of those things that has way too much contradictory documentation, anyone have specific writeups they feel are worth recommending? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Sat Jun 22 20:01:13 2013 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?bXIuY2hldy5iYWthQGdtYWlsLmNvbQ==?=) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 20:01:13 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] =?utf-8?q?Dealing_with_power_outages?= Message-ID: <51c648d8.4267320a.663e.134c@mx.google.com> Depending on what type of APC you have, you can buy extra batteries. I have many of the smx series, and they all can have extra external batteries to extend runtime. ----- Reply message ----- From: "Brian Wood" To: "tclug-list" Subject: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages Date: Sat, Jun 22, 2013 16:57 Yesterday evening the power at my office went out and was off for about 8 hours.? My APC UPS lasted for about 50 minutes of that.?? I'm thinking about buying a Duracell emergency power source.? http://www.amazon.com/Duracell-DRPP600-Powerpack-Starter-Emergency/dp/B009YR00MI/ref=pd_sim_auto_5#productDetails The instructions for the APC UPS say to only plug it directly into a wall socket.? I'm wondering if I could plug the Duracell thing into the APC UPS and then plug my computer stuff to that.?? The alternative is to use them one at a time and manually switch from the APC UPS to the Duracell thing when the APC UPS is almost dead.? I was around last evening so it wouldn't have been a problem, but if chaining them would work, it wouldn't matter if I wasn't around. I'm also thinking about bicycle generator systems: http://www.pedalpowergenerator.com/ I've seen Frank and Amelia use something like that at the State Fair. What do you think? -- Brian Wood Ebenezer Enterprises - So far G-d has helped us. http://webEbenezer.net If you're thinking of buying something over the internet, you might want to buy it before the DFL taxes on online purchases kick in on July1st.? I think prices will increase by 6.5% after that. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kaze0010 at umn.edu Sat Jun 22 22:57:24 2013 From: kaze0010 at umn.edu (kaze0010 at umn.edu) Date: 22 Jun 2013 22:57:24 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages In-Reply-To: <51C61E53.6070208@me.com> References: <51C61E53.6070208@me.com> Message-ID: How about a multipurpose, easily transportable, nearly always ready to go 3-5kW generator? 40 hour runtime at 1000 watt load. http://priups.com/ http://priuschat.com/threads/prius-as-a-generator-revisited.39613/ http://priuschat.com/threads/priups-using-the-prius-as-a-backup-generator.12430/ You can get some nice impressive runtimes with this option. These projected runtimes are based on measured fuel consumption at various loads. The second link above contains the same table in case this gets mangled in transit. kwh/month | Idle | User | Total | Tank | Runtime | Burnrate | Real kwh | Real | User kwh | User Load =avg base | Load | Load | Load | (gal) | (hrs) | gal/hr | Produced | Efficiency | Produced | Efficiency load | watts| watts| watts | | | | | | | 72 315.8 100 416 10 126.58 0.079 52.632 0.15949 12.658 0.038 180 315.8 250 566 10 93.02 0.108 52.632 0.15949 23.256 0.070 360 315.8 500 816 10 64.52 0.155 52.632 0.15949 32.258 0.098 540 315.8 750 1066 10 49.38 0.203 52.632 0.15949 37.037 0.112 720 315.8 1000 1316 10 40.00 0.250 52.632 0.15949 40.000 0.121 1080 315.8 1500 1816 10 28.99 0.345 52.632 0.15949 43.478 0.132 1440 315.8 2000 2316 10 22.73 0.440 52.632 0.15949 45.455 0.138 1800 315.8 2500 2816 10 18.69 0.535 52.632 0.15949 46.729 0.142 2160 315.8 3000 3316 10 15.87 0.630 52.632 0.15949 47.619 0.144 2520 315.8 3500 3816 10 13.79 0.725 52.632 0.15949 48.276 0.146 2880 315.8 4000 4316 10 12.20 0.820 52.632 0.15949 48.780 0.148 3240 315.8 4500 4816 10 10.93 0.915 52.632 0.15949 49.180 0.149 3600 315.8 5000 5316 10 9.90 1.010 52.632 0.15949 49.505 0.150 3960 315.8 5500 5816 10 9.05 1.105 52.632 0.15949 49.774 0.151 7200 315.8 10000 10316 10 5.10 1.960 52.632 0.15949 51.020 0.155 On Jun 22 2013, Ryan Coleman wrote: >IDK, that's not a lot of juice on that, Brian... > >What's the VAC rating of your UPS? My 1500 ran over 100 minutes when I >turned off my server - it was at 23 minutes before that. > >On 6/22/2013 4:57 PM, Brian Wood wrote: >> Yesterday evening the power at my office went out and was >> off for about 8 hours. My APC UPS lasted for about 50 minutes >> of that. I'm thinking about buying a Duracell emergency power >> source. http://www.amazon.com/Duracell-DRPP600-Powerpack-Starter-Emergency/dp/B009YR00MI/ref=pd_sim_auto_5#productDetails >> >> The instructions for the APC UPS say to only plug it directly >> into a wall socket. I'm wondering if I could plug the Duracell >> thing into the APC UPS and then plug my computer stuff to that. >> >> The alternative is to use them one at a time and manually switch >> from the APC UPS to the Duracell thing when the APC UPS is almost >> dead. I was around last evening so it wouldn't have been a problem, >> but if chaining them would work, it wouldn't matter if I wasn't around. >> >> I'm also thinking about bicycle generator systems: >> http://www.pedalpowergenerator.com/ >> >> I've seen Frank and Amelia use something like that at the State Fair. >> >> What do you think? >> >> -- >> Brian Wood >> Ebenezer Enterprises - So far G-d has helped us. >> http://webEbenezer.net >> >> >> If you're thinking of buying something over the internet, you might >> want to buy it before the DFL taxes on online purchases kick in on >> July1st. I think prices will increase by 6.5% after that. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Sun Jun 23 00:25:46 2013 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 00:25:46 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages In-Reply-To: References: <51C61E53.6070208@me.com> Message-ID: how about a couple solar panels? plus batteries if you want, or, take the attitude that if the sun isn't shining, it must be time to take a break. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From n0nas at amsat.org Sun Jun 23 02:22:16 2013 From: n0nas at amsat.org (Doug Reed) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 02:22:16 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages Message-ID: Hi Brian. My take on UPS systems is that they are only useful to ride out a short outage so the computer can be shut down properly. Without a really huge battery system you will not ride out a really long outage anyway. In my hobby work, a friend puts a cheap UPS on each radio+computer system he installs. He used to buy expensive UPSes to get extended run time. Now he just buys the cheapest one that will give him maybe 10 minutes backup time to carry over on a short outage. Just be sure to hook it up for auto-shutdown on the computer. If it is critical to keep the system up full time, then you need to buy and install a generator system with automatic-start and an automatic-transfer switch that runs on natural gas or maybe propane. On natural gas you are likely to have a long term supply of fuel for the generator. But if you are worried about the possibility of NG being shut off in an emergency, then you may want to buy a propane-based generator instead. For a long-term emergency backup, gasoline is least desirable. Diesel is just a little bit better. In my opinion, propane and NG are the best for long-term stability.... Many companies go with diesel systems for other reasons.... I think diesel has too many design challenges in our winter environment. For some of the radio sites I know, a 15KW propane-fired generator is standard and it needs a minimum 500 gallon propane tank to support the generator at full load and should run for about 3 to 5 days before the tank needs to be refilled. At lower load it might run for 8 to 10 days before refilling.... But that is a really serious annual expense. Doug. From ryanjcole at me.com Sun Jun 23 02:28:05 2013 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 02:28:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <043D764E-AE0E-41BA-925A-AAD22ACBB9A0@me.com> I think we're all over thinking this. On Jun 23, 2013, at 2:22, Doug Reed wrote: > Hi Brian. > > My take on UPS systems is that they are only useful to ride out a > short outage so the computer can be shut down properly. Without a > really huge battery system you will not ride out a really long outage > anyway. > > In my hobby work, a friend puts a cheap UPS on each radio+computer > system he installs. He used to buy expensive UPSes to get extended > run time. Now he just buys the cheapest one that will give him > maybe 10 minutes backup time to carry over on a short outage. Just be > sure to hook it up for auto-shutdown on the computer. > > If it is critical to keep the system up full time, then you need to > buy and install a generator system with automatic-start and an > automatic-transfer switch that runs on natural gas or maybe propane. > On natural gas you are likely to have a long term supply of fuel for > the generator. But if you are worried about the possibility of NG > being shut off in an emergency, then you may want to buy a > propane-based generator instead. For a long-term emergency backup, > gasoline is least desirable. Diesel is just a little bit better. > In my opinion, propane and NG are the best for long-term stability.... Many > companies go with diesel systems for other reasons.... I think diesel > has too many design challenges in our winter environment. > > For some of the radio sites I know, a 15KW propane-fired generator is > standard and it needs a minimum 500 gallon propane tank to support the > generator at full load and should run for about 3 to 5 days before the > tank needs to be refilled. At lower load it might run for 8 to 10 days > before refilling.... But that is a really serious annual expense. > > Doug. > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From n0nas at amsat.org Sun Jun 23 21:08:23 2013 From: n0nas at amsat.org (Doug Reed) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 21:08:23 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages Message-ID: I was definitely over the top for options, but Brian's original email didn't say what the purpose was of the system, but he did seem to indicate he wanted it to keep running for days at a time, not just minutes. If it is a critical piece of hardware, the suggestions should reflect that. But in general, if it is just a server PC at home or even a moderately important server at a business, then a UPS with more load capability or fewer minutes of backup time is an important consideration. But for 99% of the systems, I don't see the need for anything beyond 10-15 minutes of backup load support and a serial, USB, or network connection to tell the server or computer(s) to shut down safely when the battery time is half used.... Or look at it another way.... Why should I try to keep my server running when my ISP has been dead for hours or days? Ask the people in St Louis Park who are out of power still. Even cell sites usually only have so much battery backup before the cell company needs to bring in a motor generator of some sort. I've thought about this frequently. If there was a power outage, winter or summer, having a backup generator to keep the fridge and freezer running, enough to run the pump or fans on the furnace, and maybe a few lights is all I'd really need. Something in the 4KW to 6KW size if probably enough. But if I want to keep the whole house running and all the computers and radio gear, I'd probably better be looking for a 10KW to 15KW unit... $$$$.... Doug. On 6/23/13, tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org wrote: > Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Dealing with power outages (kaze0010 at umn.edu) > 2. Re: Dealing with power outages (gregrwm) > 3. Re: Dealing with power outages (Doug Reed) > 4. Re: Dealing with power outages (Ryan Coleman) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: 22 Jun 2013 22:57:24 -0500 > From: kaze0010 at umn.edu > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Cc: Brian Wood > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=UTF-8 > > How about a multipurpose, easily transportable, nearly always ready to go > 3-5kW generator? 40 hour runtime at 1000 watt load. > http://priups.com/ > http://priuschat.com/threads/prius-as-a-generator-revisited.39613/ > http://priuschat.com/threads/priups-using-the-prius-as-a-backup-generator.12430/ > > You can get some nice impressive runtimes with this option. These projected > > runtimes are based on measured fuel consumption at various loads. The > second link above contains the same table in case this gets mangled in > transit. > > kwh/month | Idle | User | Total | Tank | Runtime | Burnrate | Real kwh | > Real | User kwh | User Load > =avg base | Load | Load | Load | (gal) | (hrs) | gal/hr | Produced | > Efficiency | Produced | Efficiency > load | watts| watts| watts | | | | | | | > > 72 315.8 100 416 10 126.58 0.079 52.632 0.15949 12.658 0.038 > 180 315.8 250 566 10 93.02 0.108 52.632 0.15949 23.256 0.070 > 360 315.8 500 816 10 64.52 0.155 52.632 0.15949 32.258 0.098 > 540 315.8 750 1066 10 49.38 0.203 52.632 0.15949 37.037 0.112 > 720 315.8 1000 1316 10 40.00 0.250 52.632 0.15949 40.000 0.121 > 1080 315.8 1500 1816 10 28.99 0.345 52.632 0.15949 43.478 0.132 > 1440 315.8 2000 2316 10 22.73 0.440 52.632 0.15949 45.455 0.138 > 1800 315.8 2500 2816 10 18.69 0.535 52.632 0.15949 46.729 0.142 > 2160 315.8 3000 3316 10 15.87 0.630 52.632 0.15949 47.619 0.144 > 2520 315.8 3500 3816 10 13.79 0.725 52.632 0.15949 48.276 0.146 > 2880 315.8 4000 4316 10 12.20 0.820 52.632 0.15949 48.780 0.148 > 3240 315.8 4500 4816 10 10.93 0.915 52.632 0.15949 49.180 0.149 > 3600 315.8 5000 5316 10 9.90 1.010 52.632 0.15949 49.505 0.150 > 3960 315.8 5500 5816 10 9.05 1.105 52.632 0.15949 49.774 0.151 > 7200 315.8 10000 10316 10 5.10 1.960 52.632 0.15949 51.020 0.155 > > > > On Jun 22 2013, Ryan Coleman wrote: > >>IDK, that's not a lot of juice on that, Brian... >> >>What's the VAC rating of your UPS? My 1500 ran over 100 minutes when I >>turned off my server - it was at 23 minutes before that. >> >>On 6/22/2013 4:57 PM, Brian Wood wrote: >>> Yesterday evening the power at my office went out and was >>> off for about 8 hours. My APC UPS lasted for about 50 minutes >>> of that. I'm thinking about buying a Duracell emergency power >>> source. > > http://www.amazon.com/Duracell-DRPP600-Powerpack-Starter-Emergency/dp/B009YR00MI/ref=pd_sim_auto_5#productDetails >>> >>> The instructions for the APC UPS say to only plug it directly >>> into a wall socket. I'm wondering if I could plug the Duracell >>> thing into the APC UPS and then plug my computer stuff to that. >>> >>> The alternative is to use them one at a time and manually switch >>> from the APC UPS to the Duracell thing when the APC UPS is almost >>> dead. I was around last evening so it wouldn't have been a problem, >>> but if chaining them would work, it wouldn't matter if I wasn't around. >>> >>> I'm also thinking about bicycle generator systems: >>> http://www.pedalpowergenerator.com/ >>> >>> I've seen Frank and Amelia use something like that at the State Fair. >>> >>> What do you think? >>> >>> -- >>> Brian Wood >>> Ebenezer Enterprises - So far G-d has helped us. >>> http://webEbenezer.net >>> >>> >>> If you're thinking of buying something over the internet, you might >>> want to buy it before the DFL taxes on online purchases kick in on >>> July1st. I think prices will increase by 6.5% after that. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 00:25:46 -0500 > From: gregrwm > Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > how about a couple solar panels? plus batteries if you want, or, take the > attitude that if the sun isn't shining, it must be time to take a break. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 02:22:16 -0500 > From: Doug Reed > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi Brian. > > My take on UPS systems is that they are only useful to ride out a > short outage so the computer can be shut down properly. Without a > really huge battery system you will not ride out a really long outage > anyway. > > In my hobby work, a friend puts a cheap UPS on each radio+computer > system he installs. He used to buy expensive UPSes to get extended > run time. Now he just buys the cheapest one that will give him > maybe 10 minutes backup time to carry over on a short outage. Just be > sure to hook it up for auto-shutdown on the computer. > > If it is critical to keep the system up full time, then you need to > buy and install a generator system with automatic-start and an > automatic-transfer switch that runs on natural gas or maybe propane. > On natural gas you are likely to have a long term supply of fuel for > the generator. But if you are worried about the possibility of NG > being shut off in an emergency, then you may want to buy a > propane-based generator instead. For a long-term emergency backup, > gasoline is least desirable. Diesel is just a little bit better. > In my opinion, propane and NG are the best for long-term stability.... Many > companies go with diesel systems for other reasons.... I think diesel > has too many design challenges in our winter environment. > > For some of the radio sites I know, a 15KW propane-fired generator is > standard and it needs a minimum 500 gallon propane tank to support the > generator at full load and should run for about 3 to 5 days before the > tank needs to be refilled. At lower load it might run for 8 to 10 days > before refilling.... But that is a really serious annual expense. > > Doug. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 02:28:05 -0500 > From: Ryan Coleman > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Cc: "tclug-list at mn-linux.org" > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages > Message-ID: <043D764E-AE0E-41BA-925A-AAD22ACBB9A0 at me.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I think we're all over thinking this. > > > > On Jun 23, 2013, at 2:22, Doug Reed wrote: > >> Hi Brian. >> >> My take on UPS systems is that they are only useful to ride out a >> short outage so the computer can be shut down properly. Without a >> really huge battery system you will not ride out a really long outage >> anyway. >> >> In my hobby work, a friend puts a cheap UPS on each radio+computer >> system he installs. He used to buy expensive UPSes to get extended >> run time. Now he just buys the cheapest one that will give him >> maybe 10 minutes backup time to carry over on a short outage. Just be >> sure to hook it up for auto-shutdown on the computer. >> >> If it is critical to keep the system up full time, then you need to >> buy and install a generator system with automatic-start and an >> automatic-transfer switch that runs on natural gas or maybe propane. >> On natural gas you are likely to have a long term supply of fuel for >> the generator. But if you are worried about the possibility of NG >> being shut off in an emergency, then you may want to buy a >> propane-based generator instead. For a long-term emergency backup, >> gasoline is least desirable. Diesel is just a little bit better. >> In my opinion, propane and NG are the best for long-term stability.... >> Many >> companies go with diesel systems for other reasons.... I think diesel >> has too many design challenges in our winter environment. >> >> For some of the radio sites I know, a 15KW propane-fired generator is >> standard and it needs a minimum 500 gallon propane tank to support the >> generator at full load and should run for about 3 to 5 days before the >> tank needs to be refilled. At lower load it might run for 8 to 10 days >> before refilling.... But that is a really serious annual expense. >> >> Doug. >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 102, Issue 30 > ******************************************* > From n0nas at amsat.org Sun Jun 23 21:09:29 2013 From: n0nas at amsat.org (Doug Reed) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 21:09:29 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 102, Issue 30 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry, I was going to trim that last email but hit the wrong button... :-( Doug. From stuporglue at gmail.com Sun Jun 23 21:18:19 2013 From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 21:18:19 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Or look at it another way.... Why should I try to keep my server > running when my ISP has been dead for hours or days? Ask the people in > St Louis Park who are out of power still. Even cell sites usually only > have so much battery backup before the cell company needs to bring in > a motor generator of some sort. Even if power is out your ISP may not be. Out power went out about 9pm on Friday. I have something similar to the originally linked battery backup ( I have this one: http://www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-VEC026BD-Electromate-Jump-Starter/dp/B000EJS9IM). I plugged in my router and cable modem and was able to get online. I only stayed online long enough to check the power companys website, and seeing that power might not come back on until Sunday night I re-prioritized my internet access and saved my battery. Ironically, when power did come back up on Saturday morning at 10AM, the internet was out, and wasn't restored until today at about 11AM. -- Michael Moore From ryanjcole at me.com Sun Jun 23 21:50:00 2013 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 21:50:00 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0F5B663C-3C5E-4659-B0A6-69E60205DA9D@me.com> Actually he listed a 600VAC device. His intent was clear - to me. On Jun 23, 2013, at 21:08, Doug Reed wrote: > I was definitely over the top for options, but Brian's original email > didn't say what the purpose was of the system, but he did seem to > indicate he wanted it to keep running for days at a time, not just > minutes. If it is a critical piece of hardware, the suggestions should > reflect that. > > But in general, if it is just a server PC at home or even a moderately > important server at a business, then a UPS with more load capability > or fewer minutes of backup time is an important consideration. But for > 99% of the systems, I don't see the need for anything beyond 10-15 > minutes of backup load support and a serial, USB, or network > connection to tell the server or computer(s) to shut down safely when > the battery time is half used.... > > Or look at it another way.... Why should I try to keep my server > running when my ISP has been dead for hours or days? Ask the people in > St Louis Park who are out of power still. Even cell sites usually only > have so much battery backup before the cell company needs to bring in > a motor generator of some sort. > > I've thought about this frequently. If there was a power outage, > winter or summer, having a backup generator to keep the fridge and > freezer running, enough to run the pump or fans on the furnace, and > maybe a few lights is all I'd really need. Something in the 4KW to 6KW > size if probably enough. But if I want to keep the whole house running > and all the computers and radio gear, I'd probably better be looking > for a 10KW to 15KW unit... $$$$.... > > Doug. > > On 6/23/13, tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org > wrote: >> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Dealing with power outages (kaze0010 at umn.edu) >> 2. Re: Dealing with power outages (gregrwm) >> 3. Re: Dealing with power outages (Doug Reed) >> 4. Re: Dealing with power outages (Ryan Coleman) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: 22 Jun 2013 22:57:24 -0500 >> From: kaze0010 at umn.edu >> To: TCLUG Mailing List >> Cc: Brian Wood >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=UTF-8 >> >> How about a multipurpose, easily transportable, nearly always ready to go >> 3-5kW generator? 40 hour runtime at 1000 watt load. >> http://priups.com/ >> http://priuschat.com/threads/prius-as-a-generator-revisited.39613/ >> http://priuschat.com/threads/priups-using-the-prius-as-a-backup-generator.12430/ >> >> You can get some nice impressive runtimes with this option. These projected >> >> runtimes are based on measured fuel consumption at various loads. The >> second link above contains the same table in case this gets mangled in >> transit. >> >> kwh/month | Idle | User | Total | Tank | Runtime | Burnrate | Real kwh | >> Real | User kwh | User Load >> =avg base | Load | Load | Load | (gal) | (hrs) | gal/hr | Produced | >> Efficiency | Produced | Efficiency >> load | watts| watts| watts | | | | | | | >> >> 72 315.8 100 416 10 126.58 0.079 52.632 0.15949 12.658 0.038 >> 180 315.8 250 566 10 93.02 0.108 52.632 0.15949 23.256 0.070 >> 360 315.8 500 816 10 64.52 0.155 52.632 0.15949 32.258 0.098 >> 540 315.8 750 1066 10 49.38 0.203 52.632 0.15949 37.037 0.112 >> 720 315.8 1000 1316 10 40.00 0.250 52.632 0.15949 40.000 0.121 >> 1080 315.8 1500 1816 10 28.99 0.345 52.632 0.15949 43.478 0.132 >> 1440 315.8 2000 2316 10 22.73 0.440 52.632 0.15949 45.455 0.138 >> 1800 315.8 2500 2816 10 18.69 0.535 52.632 0.15949 46.729 0.142 >> 2160 315.8 3000 3316 10 15.87 0.630 52.632 0.15949 47.619 0.144 >> 2520 315.8 3500 3816 10 13.79 0.725 52.632 0.15949 48.276 0.146 >> 2880 315.8 4000 4316 10 12.20 0.820 52.632 0.15949 48.780 0.148 >> 3240 315.8 4500 4816 10 10.93 0.915 52.632 0.15949 49.180 0.149 >> 3600 315.8 5000 5316 10 9.90 1.010 52.632 0.15949 49.505 0.150 >> 3960 315.8 5500 5816 10 9.05 1.105 52.632 0.15949 49.774 0.151 >> 7200 315.8 10000 10316 10 5.10 1.960 52.632 0.15949 51.020 0.155 >> >> >> >> On Jun 22 2013, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> >>> IDK, that's not a lot of juice on that, Brian... >>> >>> What's the VAC rating of your UPS? My 1500 ran over 100 minutes when I >>> turned off my server - it was at 23 minutes before that. >>> >>> On 6/22/2013 4:57 PM, Brian Wood wrote: >>>> Yesterday evening the power at my office went out and was >>>> off for about 8 hours. My APC UPS lasted for about 50 minutes >>>> of that. I'm thinking about buying a Duracell emergency power >>>> source. >> >> http://www.amazon.com/Duracell-DRPP600-Powerpack-Starter-Emergency/dp/B009YR00MI/ref=pd_sim_auto_5#productDetails >>>> >>>> The instructions for the APC UPS say to only plug it directly >>>> into a wall socket. I'm wondering if I could plug the Duracell >>>> thing into the APC UPS and then plug my computer stuff to that. >>>> >>>> The alternative is to use them one at a time and manually switch >>>> from the APC UPS to the Duracell thing when the APC UPS is almost >>>> dead. I was around last evening so it wouldn't have been a problem, >>>> but if chaining them would work, it wouldn't matter if I wasn't around. >>>> >>>> I'm also thinking about bicycle generator systems: >>>> http://www.pedalpowergenerator.com/ >>>> >>>> I've seen Frank and Amelia use something like that at the State Fair. >>>> >>>> What do you think? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Brian Wood >>>> Ebenezer Enterprises - So far G-d has helped us. >>>> http://webEbenezer.net >>>> >>>> >>>> If you're thinking of buying something over the internet, you might >>>> want to buy it before the DFL taxes on online purchases kick in on >>>> July1st. I think prices will increase by 6.5% after that. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 00:25:46 -0500 >> From: gregrwm >> Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> how about a couple solar panels? plus batteries if you want, or, take the >> attitude that if the sun isn't shining, it must be time to take a break. >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 02:22:16 -0500 >> From: Doug Reed >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Hi Brian. >> >> My take on UPS systems is that they are only useful to ride out a >> short outage so the computer can be shut down properly. Without a >> really huge battery system you will not ride out a really long outage >> anyway. >> >> In my hobby work, a friend puts a cheap UPS on each radio+computer >> system he installs. He used to buy expensive UPSes to get extended >> run time. Now he just buys the cheapest one that will give him >> maybe 10 minutes backup time to carry over on a short outage. Just be >> sure to hook it up for auto-shutdown on the computer. >> >> If it is critical to keep the system up full time, then you need to >> buy and install a generator system with automatic-start and an >> automatic-transfer switch that runs on natural gas or maybe propane. >> On natural gas you are likely to have a long term supply of fuel for >> the generator. But if you are worried about the possibility of NG >> being shut off in an emergency, then you may want to buy a >> propane-based generator instead. For a long-term emergency backup, >> gasoline is least desirable. Diesel is just a little bit better. >> In my opinion, propane and NG are the best for long-term stability.... Many >> companies go with diesel systems for other reasons.... I think diesel >> has too many design challenges in our winter environment. >> >> For some of the radio sites I know, a 15KW propane-fired generator is >> standard and it needs a minimum 500 gallon propane tank to support the >> generator at full load and should run for about 3 to 5 days before the >> tank needs to be refilled. At lower load it might run for 8 to 10 days >> before refilling.... But that is a really serious annual expense. >> >> Doug. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 02:28:05 -0500 >> From: Ryan Coleman >> To: TCLUG Mailing List >> Cc: "tclug-list at mn-linux.org" >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages >> Message-ID: <043D764E-AE0E-41BA-925A-AAD22ACBB9A0 at me.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> I think we're all over thinking this. >> >> >> >> On Jun 23, 2013, at 2:22, Doug Reed wrote: >> >>> Hi Brian. >>> >>> My take on UPS systems is that they are only useful to ride out a >>> short outage so the computer can be shut down properly. Without a >>> really huge battery system you will not ride out a really long outage >>> anyway. >>> >>> In my hobby work, a friend puts a cheap UPS on each radio+computer >>> system he installs. He used to buy expensive UPSes to get extended >>> run time. Now he just buys the cheapest one that will give him >>> maybe 10 minutes backup time to carry over on a short outage. Just be >>> sure to hook it up for auto-shutdown on the computer. >>> >>> If it is critical to keep the system up full time, then you need to >>> buy and install a generator system with automatic-start and an >>> automatic-transfer switch that runs on natural gas or maybe propane. >>> On natural gas you are likely to have a long term supply of fuel for >>> the generator. But if you are worried about the possibility of NG >>> being shut off in an emergency, then you may want to buy a >>> propane-based generator instead. For a long-term emergency backup, >>> gasoline is least desirable. Diesel is just a little bit better. >>> In my opinion, propane and NG are the best for long-term stability.... >>> Many >>> companies go with diesel systems for other reasons.... I think diesel >>> has too many design challenges in our winter environment. >>> >>> For some of the radio sites I know, a 15KW propane-fired generator is >>> standard and it needs a minimum 500 gallon propane tank to support the >>> generator at full load and should run for about 3 to 5 days before the >>> tank needs to be refilled. At lower load it might run for 8 to 10 days >>> before refilling.... But that is a really serious annual expense. >>> >>> Doug. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 102, Issue 30 >> ******************************************* > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Sun Jun 23 23:37:01 2013 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 23:37:01 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages Message-ID: Doug Reed: > I was definitely over the top for options, but Brian's original email > didn't say what the purpose was of the system, but he did seem to > indicate he wanted it to keep running for days at a time, not just > minutes. If it is a critical piece of hardware, the suggestions should > reflect that. That's OK. I didn't mention that this server is inside an office building. The propane and other generators you mentioned are interesting from a long term perspective. I've thought about buying a UPS which would last longer, but I tend to agree that beefing up the UPS isn't the way to go. This is just a guess but I think I could get by with 100 watts when the power goes out. I don't know how much I could produce with a bike generator. That evening my UPS was beeping periodically and then about 15 seconds or so before it died, it started beeping wildly. I turned on the monitor to shut down the server, but I wasn't sure if I was fast enough or if it had lost power before it had time to do much of the shutdown. At any rate, when the power came back on, the server did also without me having to be there. I had gone to bed and just checked on things from home when the power came on. -- Brian Ebenezer Enterprises http://webEbenezer.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Mon Jun 24 07:53:03 2013 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (B-o-B De Mars) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 07:53:03 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51C8412F.1040808@gmail.com> On 6/23/2013 11:37 PM, Brian Wood wrote:: > > That's OK. I didn't mention that this server is inside an office > building. The propane and other generators you mentioned > are interesting from a long term perspective. Probably the best option going forward if your looking for 99.999% up time is to lease some rack space in a colocation facility. They typically have multiple power sources, battery, & generator backup that can run for days without external power. I recommend the 511 building in downtown Minneapolis. Many carriers are located there so you can get nice internet speeds for cheap (it's just an ethernet handoff). There are other colo's around the Twin Cities too, but I have no experience with them. I'm sure they are all decent. Since you mentioned you only have one server the cost might not make sense, but once you start adding more servers this might be a good option for you. Just thought I throw this out there as no one mentioned this. From ryanjcole at me.com Mon Jun 24 09:38:33 2013 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 09:38:33 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages In-Reply-To: <51C8412F.1040808@gmail.com> References: <51C8412F.1040808@gmail.com> Message-ID: <51C859E9.3050403@me.com> Just a heads-up: I spoke with US Internet about this a month ago... the rent is 20% higher at the 511 building than it is at their Minnetonka colo... And on top of that with the new stadium, the concerns of the fiber being breached... I'd rather put my gear in MTKA than DTMpls - even if the fiber is breached and thus Minnesota completely loses internet... I'm leery of the construction site. For those of you who do not know the new Vikings stadium will actually sit on top of the 511 building and the entirety of Minnesota's high speed internet service runs through this building. If you think the semi-annual cutting of the fiber to the North Shore is bad (and the loss of 911 service for 24-96 hours) this would be FAR worse. Moving the 511's fiber run would take 3-5 years and cost upwards of $10,000,000,000. That's a lot of fusion splicing that could go very wrong. I'm concerned, not worried, that something will go very, very wrong. On 6/24/2013 7:53 AM, B-o-B De Mars wrote: > I recommend the 511 building in downtown Minneapolis. Many carriers > are located there so you can get nice internet speeds for cheap (it's > just an ethernet handoff). There are other colo's around the Twin > Cities too, but I have no experience with them. I'm sure they are all > decent. From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Jun 24 11:53:04 2013 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 11:53:04 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] managing contact data Message-ID: I am looking for a good way to manage contact data. I have been doing a few haphazard things over the years and they aren't quite working the way I want. I have been putting data into Google Contacts because it syncs with my Android phone, but there is a lot not to like about Google Contacts. One thing I do like about it is that I can download a CSV copy of all of my contact data whenever I want it. A big problem with Google Contacts is the lack of reasonable documentation. Look at their docs and see if you can find out which fields are allowed in imported CSV files: https://support.google.com/mail/answer/14024?hl=en&ref_topic=1284986 I have no luck. Searching the web reveals that everyone is stymied by this bizarre shortcoming, inventing the wheel over and over again, but they are different wheels because people make different discoveries, understand Contacts differently, and Contact fields seem to be changing over time. Check it out: http://www.google.com/search?q=google+csv+fields Someone on another list recommended Gnome for contact management, but he said that it cannot export a nickname field. That is not acceptable to me. I need that field. It would be nice to have a solution that allowed me to define fields. Any ideas? Mike From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Mon Jun 24 13:20:58 2013 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 18:20:58 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages Message-ID: B-o-B De Mars : > Probably the best option going forward if your looking for 99.999% up > time is to lease some rack space in a colocation facility. They > typically have multiple power sources, battery, & generator backup that > can run for days without external power. I'm not keen on those. One corrupt employee with a flash drive and my business is compromised. (I'm not condemning Ed Snowden... he seems like a decent guy from what I know of him.) I'm looking for economical steps I can take in a do-it-yourself environment. That battery powerpack I mentioned might be a step in the right direction. I don't think I'd try to cable/chain it because of potential problems with doing so. I'd just have to manually start using it. And something like that is needed for the bike generator option. So if in the future I decided to literally ride out the storms, I'd have one of the pieces I needed. -- Brian Ebenezer Enterprises http://webEbenezer.net "G-d is our refuge and strength, A very present help in trouble. Therefore we will not fear, though the earth should change And though the mountains slip into the heart of the sea;" Psalm 46 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Mon Jun 24 13:23:43 2013 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 13:23:43 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51C88EAF.5040401@me.com> On 6/24/2013 1:20 PM, Brian Wood wrote: > B-o-B De Mars : > > > Probably the best option going forward if your looking for 99.999% up > > time is to lease some rack space in a colocation facility. They > > typically have multiple power sources, battery, & generator backup that > > can run for days without external power. > > I'm not keen on those. One corrupt employee with a flash drive and > my business is compromised. Because this isn't against multiple federal, state and local laws... I suggest you tour a co-location facility before you go this route - if you can afford it you'd be amazed at the security it provides. From tlunde at gmail.com Mon Jun 24 13:29:47 2013 From: tlunde at gmail.com (Thomas Lunde) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 13:29:47 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages In-Reply-To: <51C88EAF.5040401@me.com> References: <51C88EAF.5040401@me.com> Message-ID: <7AEAE1C1-3BA6-426F-8E4B-AC1352E9E7B2@gmail.com> On Jun 24, 2013, at 1:23 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> >> I'm not keen on those. One corrupt employee with a flash drive and >> my business is compromised. > > Because this isn't against multiple federal, state and local laws... > > I suggest you tour a co-location facility before you go this route - if you can afford it you'd be amazed at the security it provides. > And, even if you're not amazed, encrypt your drives. Thomas From erikerik at gmail.com Mon Jun 24 15:21:07 2013 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:21:07 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Brian Wood wrote: > I'm not keen on those. One corrupt employee with a flash drive and > my business is compromised. > They typically give you a locked rack (or partial rack) where you provide the padlock. That, in conjunction with all the other security measures in a modern colo (multi-factor auth for entry, biometrics, security cameras, physical access logs, etc), and your data is *much* safer there than sitting in your office/house/whatever. -Erik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jus at krytosvirus.com Mon Jun 24 22:34:09 2013 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 22:34:09 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages Message-ID: <7vt80jw12pex9po0tn0vk6x4.1372131249790@email.android.com> All internet traffic in Minnesota does not rely on the 511 building. Multiple carriers have network paths out of Minnesota that include no reliance on the 511 building at all. Some of course do fall into the category of complete reliance on 511. There are a number of Colo facilities in the local twin cities as mentioned, though who they all use for their own upstream providers varies from Colo to Colo. Having spent a lot of time at 511 I will say Cologix, formerly FWR/MN Gateway, has some nice facilities and a lot of good carrier access. I personally estimate the risk of impact from stadium construction to be low for 511 overall. -------- Original message -------- From: Ryan Coleman Date: To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages Just a heads-up: I spoke with US Internet about this a month ago... the rent is 20% higher at the 511 building than it is at their Minnetonka colo... And on top of that with the new stadium, the concerns of the fiber being breached... I'd rather put my gear in MTKA than DTMpls - even if the fiber is breached and thus Minnesota completely loses internet... I'm leery of the construction site. For those of you who do not know the new Vikings stadium will actually sit on top of the 511 building and the entirety of Minnesota's high speed internet service runs through this building. If you think the semi-annual cutting of the fiber to the North Shore is bad (and the loss of 911 service for 24-96 hours) this would be FAR worse. Moving the 511's fiber run would take 3-5 years and cost upwards of $10,000,000,000. That's a lot of fusion splicing that could go very wrong. I'm concerned, not worried, that something will go very, very wrong. On 6/24/2013 7:53 AM, B-o-B De Mars wrote: > I recommend the 511 building in downtown Minneapolis.? Many carriers > are located there so you can get nice internet speeds for cheap (it's > just an ethernet handoff).? There are other colo's around the Twin > Cities too, but I have no experience with them. I'm sure they are all > decent. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Jun 25 01:03:37 2013 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 01:03:37 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Sage math software for Ubuntu - installation error Message-ID: I just learned about this software from my mathematician son, and I think it looks like a pretty nice, well-developed system for symbolic math: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sage_(mathematics_software) It's using Python and is GPL. But when I try to install it, I run into trouble. Any ideas about this?: I'm using the code here for Ubuntu PPA: http://www.sagemath.org/download-linux.html Install Sage this way: apt-add-repository -y ppa:aims/sagemath apt-get update apt-get install sagemath-upstream-binary I ran those three lines, always preceded with "sudo", but the output from that last line was this: E: Package 'sagemath-upstream-binary' has no installation candidate Any ideas? Maybe I need to contact the Sage team about that. Mike From max at bernsteinforpresident.com Tue Jun 25 01:17:34 2013 From: max at bernsteinforpresident.com (Max Shinn) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 08:17:34 +0200 Subject: [tclug-list] Sage math software for Ubuntu - installation error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I just learned about this software from my mathematician son, and I think > it looks like a pretty nice, well-developed system for symbolic math: Have you seen wxMaxima? It's an interface to Maxima, and I strongly prefer it over Sage. Sage is kind of a pain to set up because it runs in a web browser. Sage runs Maxima anyway for all of the heavy lifting, so the performance will be about the same. If you're just looking to try it out, you can always use the Sage Online Notebook (http://www.sagenb.org/) to start. Then you can compare it with the easy-to-install wxMaxima (in the repos) and see if Sage is worth the install. :) -Max From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Jun 25 02:39:01 2013 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 02:39:01 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Sage math software for Ubuntu - installation error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks, Max. Good idea. I think I have used wxMaxima or Maxima. Maybe Sage is good for people who like Python. Does it have better graphs? It seems that Python is pretty good at graph drawing. Mike On Tue, 25 Jun 2013, Max Shinn wrote: >> I just learned about this software from my mathematician son, and I >> think it looks like a pretty nice, well-developed system for symbolic >> math: > > Have you seen wxMaxima? It's an interface to Maxima, and I strongly > prefer it over Sage. Sage is kind of a pain to set up because it runs > in a web browser. Sage runs Maxima anyway for all of the heavy lifting, > so the performance will be about the same. > > If you're just looking to try it out, you can always use the Sage Online > Notebook (http://www.sagenb.org/) to start. Then you can compare it > with the easy-to-install wxMaxima (in the repos) and see if Sage is > worth the install. :) > > -Max From max at bernsteinforpresident.com Tue Jun 25 03:48:08 2013 From: max at bernsteinforpresident.com (Max Shinn) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:48:08 +0200 Subject: [tclug-list] Sage math software for Ubuntu - installation error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Maybe Sage is good for people who like Python. Does it have better > graphs? It seems that Python is pretty good at graph drawing. wxMaxima plots 2D and 3D images via gnuplot. It allows rotation, zooming, etc. by the user in realtime. I haven't tried Sage for a few years, but I can't imagine it would have this feature considering it's browser based. I would probably agree with you that Python users are better able to appreciate Sage. If I recall correctly, Sage built a Python interface on top of the Maxima functions, since Maxima uses its own synax. Though if you're looking for something to actually include in Python scripts, Sympy is the way to go. -Max From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Tue Jun 25 04:11:14 2013 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 04:11:14 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages Message-ID: Erik Anderson > They typically give you a locked rack (or partial rack) where you provide > the padlock. That, in conjunction with all the other security measures in a > modern colo (multi-factor auth for entry, biometrics, security cameras, > physical access logs, etc), and your data is *much* safer there than > sitting in your office/house/whatever. I'm fine with a padlock for my bicycle, but not the software. I enjoy the challenge of building a data center from scratch. I know it isn't impressive at this point, but that's fine with me. (It used to be even less capable than today.) I'm thinking baby steps and slow and steady wins the race. And I still like your IPSec suggestion, but haven't made much progress in that area. I did clean up some stuff in the back tier and made a few improvements in some other areas. -- Brian Ebenezer Enterprises http://webEbenezer.net Unless the L-rd builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the L-rd guards the city, The watchman waketh but in vain. Psalm 127 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erikerik at gmail.com Tue Jun 25 07:22:36 2013 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 07:22:36 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Sage math software for Ubuntu - installation error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 1:03 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > I ran those three lines, always preceded with "sudo", but the output from > that last line was this: > > E: Package 'sagemath-upstream-binary' has no installation candidate > > Any ideas? Maybe I need to contact the Sage team about that. > What does `apt-cache search sagemath` produce? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erikerik at gmail.com Tue Jun 25 07:30:24 2013 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 07:30:24 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 4:11 AM, Brian Wood wrote: > I'm fine with a padlock for my bicycle, but not the software. > I enjoy the challenge of building a data center from scratch. > OK, *there's* the real reason. You enjoy the challenge. Great! I must say, though, It's silly to suggest that the security (with or without padlock) of a well-designed, well-monitored datacenter is somehow inferior to keeping a server in the office. There are *so* many benefits other than security that come along with hosting in a datacenter - if your operation keeps growing, you'll likely need to consider real datacenter space at some point. From a cost perspective, it's just not feasible to think individual small companies can even come close to the level of security, reliability, connectivity, and environmental conditions offered by a professional datacenter. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Tue Jun 25 10:01:15 2013 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:01:15 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51C9B0BB.4020904@me.com> Seconded. I'm as paranoid as Brian when it comes to my data - but the FISA cannot make USI or VISI or any of those give up information /from my computer/ and the piece of mind of the data center is almost enough for me to make the plunge - except that I'm not generating enough income to colo my own stuff - and my data use/storage is too great for the cloud (Rackspace's cost for my 7TB of data is $650/month - ouch. I could rebuild my server five times a year for that price). But my employer might be doing a colo solution and, if that happens I'll be running just my backup web and email server on that machine - maybe before I do the same at Rackspace. Your security is what you make of it and it always will be. If you're ignorant of the possible issues the you're almost asking for the hacks - but if you're overly proactive and paranoid about the possibilities then you need to live with the consequences - like power and service outages or the exceptionally high cost of installation of redundant sources of electricity. My car engine is not the greatest generator of electricity but it works in a pinch - and I've been known to run a 400W inverter on it to bridge the difference in a power outage during a critical time. Just enough to trickle the UPS back to full so that I can run over to the gas station and refill the tank (I've done this twice in the last 10 years - not ideal but it does work in a pinch). On 6/25/2013 7:30 AM, Erik Anderson wrote: > On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 4:11 AM, Brian Wood > wrote: > > I'm fine with a padlock for my bicycle, but not the software. > > I enjoy the challenge of building a data center from scratch. > > > OK, *there's* the real reason. You enjoy the challenge. Great! > > I must say, though, It's silly to suggest that the security (with or > without padlock) of a well-designed, well-monitored datacenter is > somehow inferior to keeping a server in the office. There are *so* > many benefits other than security that come along with hosting in a > datacenter - if your operation keeps growing, you'll likely need to > consider real datacenter space at some point. From a cost perspective, > it's just not feasible to think individual small companies can even > come close to the level of security, reliability, connectivity, and > environmental conditions offered by a professional datacenter. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Jun 25 10:40:57 2013 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:40:57 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Sage math software for Ubuntu - installation error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Jun 2013, Erik Anderson wrote: > On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 1:03 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > >> I ran those three lines, always preceded with "sudo", but the output from >> that last line was this: >> >> E: Package 'sagemath-upstream-binary' has no installation candidate >> >> Any ideas? Maybe I need to contact the Sage team about that. >> > > What does `apt-cache search sagemath` produce? Only this: cantor-backend-sage - Sage backend for Cantor Mike From erikerik at gmail.com Tue Jun 25 10:57:01 2013 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:57:01 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Sage math software for Ubuntu - installation error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > Only this: > > cantor-backend-sage - Sage backend for Cantor > I just followed those same instructions and got the following: erik at host:~$ sudo apt-cache search sagemath cantor-backend-sage - Sage backend for Cantor sagemath-upstream-binary - Sage is a free open-source mathematics software system sagemath-optional - Some optional packages. sagemath-source - Sagemath source code and build dependencies and runtime dependencies, and vim and gedit-plugins sagemath-glib-schema - Sagemath LiveCD glib schema file sagemath-livecd - Package to install in a UCK environment when preparing a Sage Live/Install CD It looks as if the "apt-get update" step didn't run properly. When you run that command, do you see it hitting ppa.launchpad.net at all? -Erik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Tue Jun 25 12:43:19 2013 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 17:43:19 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages Message-ID: Erik Anderson: > I must say, though, It's silly to suggest that the security (with or > without padlock) of a well-designed, well-monitored datacenter is somehow > inferior to keeping a server in the office. There are *so* many benefits > other than security that come along with hosting in a datacenter - if your > operation keeps growing, you'll likely need to consider real datacenter > space at some point. From a cost perspective, it's just not feasible to > think individual small companies can even come close to the level of > security, reliability, connectivity, and environmental conditions offered > by a professional datacenter. It's as though you've never heard of Edward Snowden. He walked off with a bunch of stuff from the National *Security* Agency. There was a story on cable about how https://duckduckgo.com traffic increased from 2 million hits/day to 3 million hits/day after the Prism story broke. Sorry, but I know how most big companies are run. The government is no better these days. -- Brian Ebenezer Enterprises - Was Eisenhower our last decent President? http://webEbenezer.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Tue Jun 25 12:48:21 2013 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 12:48:21 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <60E89885-6B69-4145-92FD-83B84D59A89D@me.com> Seriously? It's because he was GRANTED access. You're obviously not listening to what were saying. On Jun 25, 2013, at 12:43, Brian Wood wrote: > Erik Anderson: > > > I must say, though, It's silly to suggest that the security (with or > > without padlock) of a well-designed, well-monitored datacenter is somehow > > inferior to keeping a server in the office. There are *so* many benefits > > other than security that come along with hosting in a datacenter - if your > > operation keeps growing, you'll likely need to consider real datacenter > > space at some point. From a cost perspective, it's just not feasible to > > think individual small companies can even come close to the level of > > security, reliability, connectivity, and environmental conditions offered > > by a professional datacenter. > > It's as though you've never heard of Edward Snowden. He walked > off with a bunch of stuff from the National *Security* Agency. > There was a story on cable about how https://duckduckgo.com > traffic increased from 2 million hits/day to 3 million hits/day after > the Prism story broke. > > Sorry, but I know how most big companies are run. The government > is no better these days. > > -- > Brian > Ebenezer Enterprises - Was Eisenhower our last decent President? > http://webEbenezer.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erikerik at gmail.com Tue Jun 25 13:09:01 2013 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 13:09:01 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Brian Wood wrote: > > It's as though you've never heard of Edward Snowden. He walked > off with a bunch of stuff from the National *Security* Agency. > There was a story on cable about how https://duckduckgo.com > traffic increased from 2 million hits/day to 3 million hits/day after > the Prism story broke. > > Sorry, but I know how most big companies are run. The government > is no better these days. > Ok, you're missing the point, but I'm done with this discussion, as I see there's no chance of convincing you of how things really are. Feel free to continue trying to convince yourself that you are *any* better self-hosting than renting space in a colo. If that's what makes you happy, then great - have at it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com Wed Jun 26 10:32:17 2013 From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 10:32:17 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Open Discussion at Penguins Unbound Meeting June 29th Message-ID: <51CB0981.7000900@Goecke-Dolan.com> The June PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be Saturday June 29th at TIES, 1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108 from 10:00am to 12:00pm (See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more info.) At this months Penguins Unbound Meeting: Open discussion. Bring your question, and we will see what answers we can find. Hope to see you there. Thanks! ==>brian. *** STREAMING *** If you can't make it you can use this url to stream the meeting. mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 You should be able to connect with either: mplayer mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 or vlc http://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com Fri Jun 28 01:51:09 2013 From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 01:51:09 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Open Discussion at Penguins Unbound Meeting June 29th Message-ID: <51CD325D.3090809@Goecke-Dolan.com> The June PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be Saturday June 29th at TIES, 1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108 from 10:00am to 12:00pm (See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more info.) At this months Penguins Unbound Meeting: Open discussion. Bring your question, and we will see what answers we can find. Hope to see you there. Thanks! ==>brian. *** STREAMING *** If you can't make it you can use this url to stream the meeting. mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 You should be able to connect with either: mplayer mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 or vlc http://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800