From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 15:11:37 2013 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 15:11:37 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation Message-ID: I've been using Fedora, but am thinking about trying out another distro. I'd like to find one that is service oriented. Fedora starts bluetooth, cups and some other services that I don't think service providers want. Any ideas? Thanks. -- Brian Wood Ebenezer Enterprises -- in G-d we trust. http://webEbenezer.net (651) 251-9384 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ecrist at secure-computing.net Sun Feb 3 15:12:59 2013 From: ecrist at secure-computing.net (Eric F Crist) Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 15:12:59 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <79a34c17-117b-45b1-8414-cf249e133567@email.android.com> FreeBSD is great. :-) Brian Wood wrote: >I've been using Fedora, but am thinking about trying out another >distro. I'd like to find one that is service oriented. Fedora starts >bluetooth, cups and some other services that I don't think service >providers want. Any ideas? Thanks. > >-- >Brian Wood >Ebenezer Enterprises -- in G-d we trust. >http://webEbenezer.net (651) 251-9384 > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list at mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Sun Feb 3 15:13:57 2013 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 15:13:57 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: <79a34c17-117b-45b1-8414-cf249e133567@email.android.com> References: <79a34c17-117b-45b1-8414-cf249e133567@email.android.com> Message-ID: <510ED315.2060302@me.com> +1. Although I'm certain we're in the minority. On 2/3/2013 3:12 PM, Eric F Crist wrote: > FreeBSD is great. :-) > > Brian Wood wrote: > > I've been using Fedora, but am thinking about trying out another > distro. I'd like to find one that is service oriented. Fedora starts > bluetooth, cups and some other services that I don't think service > providers want. Any ideas? Thanks. > > > -- > Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ecrist at secure-computing.net Sun Feb 3 15:22:14 2013 From: ecrist at secure-computing.net (Eric F Crist) Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 15:22:14 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: <510ED315.2060302@me.com> References: <79a34c17-117b-45b1-8414-cf249e133567@email.android.com> <510ED315.2060302@me.com> Message-ID: Heh, there's more here than you think. ;-) Ryan Coleman wrote: >+1. Although I'm certain we're in the minority. > >On 2/3/2013 3:12 PM, Eric F Crist wrote: >> FreeBSD is great. :-) >> >> Brian Wood wrote: >> >> I've been using Fedora, but am thinking about trying out another >> distro. I'd like to find one that is service oriented. Fedora >starts >> bluetooth, cups and some other services that I don't think >service >> providers want. Any ideas? Thanks. >> >> >> -- >> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From droidjd at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 15:26:40 2013 From: droidjd at gmail.com (Andrew Dahl) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 15:26:40 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: <79a34c17-117b-45b1-8414-cf249e133567@email.android.com> <510ED315.2060302@me.com> Message-ID: I don't use, nor have I ever used it, but I'd be inclined to recommend FreeBSD. What I know about it, I've learned through friends that range from users to developers. Personally, I'd just disable what I didn't need in Fedora and build a custom kernel, if I needed a really lean system. (Needless to say, I love me some Fedora) Good luck in your search. -Andrew On Feb 3, 2013 3:22 PM, "Eric F Crist" wrote: > Heh, there's more here than you think. ;-) > > Ryan Coleman wrote: >> >> +1. Although I'm certain we're in the minority. >> >> On 2/3/2013 3:12 PM, Eric F Crist wrote: >> >> FreeBSD is great. :-) >> >> Brian Wood wrote: >>> >>> I've been using Fedora, but am thinking about trying out another >>> distro. I'd like to find one that is service oriented. Fedora starts >>> bluetooth, cups and some other services that I don't think service >>> providers want. Any ideas? Thanks. >>> >> >> -- >> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > -- > Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From random at argle.org Sun Feb 3 15:21:54 2013 From: random at argle.org (Daniel Taylor) Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 15:21:54 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <510ED4F2.1050006@argle.org> I'd just configure a setup script for Fedora that doesn't install/enable the unwanted services. That said, the Debian server install set is pretty conservative with which services it enables by default. On 02/03/2013 03:11 PM, Brian Wood wrote: > I've been using Fedora, but am thinking about trying out another > distro. I'd like to find one that is service oriented. Fedora starts > bluetooth, cups and some other services that I don't think service > providers want. Any ideas? Thanks. > > -- > Brian Wood > Ebenezer Enterprises -- in G-d we trust. > http://webEbenezer.net (651) 251-9384 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ecrist at secure-computing.net Sun Feb 3 15:32:27 2013 From: ecrist at secure-computing.net (Eric F Crist) Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 15:32:27 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: <79a34c17-117b-45b1-8414-cf249e133567@email.android.com> <510ED315.2060302@me.com> Message-ID: My job here is done. Andrew Dahl wrote: >I don't use, nor have I ever used it, but I'd be inclined to recommend >FreeBSD. What I know about it, I've learned through friends that range >from >users to developers. > >Personally, I'd just disable what I didn't need in Fedora and build a >custom kernel, if I needed a really lean system. (Needless to say, I >love >me some Fedora) > >Good luck in your search. > >-Andrew >On Feb 3, 2013 3:22 PM, "Eric F Crist" >wrote: > >> Heh, there's more here than you think. ;-) >> >> Ryan Coleman wrote: >>> >>> +1. Although I'm certain we're in the minority. >>> >>> On 2/3/2013 3:12 PM, Eric F Crist wrote: >>> >>> FreeBSD is great. :-) >>> >>> Brian Wood wrote: >>>> >>>> I've been using Fedora, but am thinking about trying out another >>>> distro. I'd like to find one that is service oriented. Fedora >starts >>>> bluetooth, cups and some other services that I don't think service >>>> providers want. Any ideas? Thanks. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, >Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list at mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Sun Feb 3 15:33:54 2013 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 15:33:54 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: <79a34c17-117b-45b1-8414-cf249e133567@email.android.com> <510ED315.2060302@me.com> Message-ID: <510ED7C2.9060500@me.com> The best part of FreeBSD is that I never want the GUI overhead and here I dont have it. Yay. :) On 2/3/2013 3:32 PM, Eric F Crist wrote: > My job here is done. > > Andrew Dahl wrote: > > I don't use, nor have I ever used it, but I'd be inclined to > recommend FreeBSD. What I know about it, I've learned through > friends that range from users to developers. > > Personally, I'd just disable what I didn't need in Fedora and > build a custom kernel, if I needed a really lean system. (Needless > to say, I love me some Fedora) > > Good luck in your search. > > -Andrew > > On Feb 3, 2013 3:22 PM, "Eric F Crist" > > > wrote: > > Heh, there's more here than you think. ;-) > > Ryan Coleman > wrote: > > +1. Although I'm certain we're in the minority. > > On 2/3/2013 3:12 PM, Eric F Crist wrote: >> FreeBSD is great. :-) >> >> Brian Wood >> wrote: >> >> I've been using Fedora, but am thinking about trying >> out another >> distro. I'd like to find one that is service >> oriented. Fedora starts >> bluetooth, cups and some other services that I don't >> think service >> providers want. Any ideas? Thanks. >> >> >> -- >> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse >> my brevity. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > -- > Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my > brevity. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > -- > Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Sun Feb 3 15:35:29 2013 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 15:35:29 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Feb 2013, Brian Wood wrote: > I've been using Fedora, but am thinking about trying out another > distro.? I'd like to find one that is service oriented.? Fedora starts > bluetooth, cups and some other services that I don't think service > providers want.? Any ideas?? Thanks. How about disabling services you don't want? No Linux... heck, no UNIX... heck, no OS will install itself exactly the way you want it. You'll always have to make adjustments. So just do them in the OS you're used to. -- From ryanjcole at me.com Sun Feb 3 15:37:19 2013 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 15:37:19 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <510ED88F.7010403@me.com> How about installing just the services you want? Telnet? No. Samba? No. CUPS? No. Bluetooh? God, no. Install the things you want and the things they rely on and otherwise have a base, basic and un-blemished OS. I love my BSD. On 2/3/2013 3:35 PM, Yaron wrote: > On Sun, 3 Feb 2013, Brian Wood wrote: > >> I've been using Fedora, but am thinking about trying out another >> distro. I'd like to find one that is service oriented. Fedora starts >> bluetooth, cups and some other services that I don't think service >> providers want. Any ideas? Thanks. > > How about disabling services you don't want? > > No Linux... heck, no UNIX... heck, no OS will install itself exactly > the way you want it. You'll always have to make adjustments. So just > do them in the OS you're used to. > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 16:22:28 2013 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 16:22:28 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation Message-ID: Yaron: > How about disabling services you don't want? > > No Linux... heck, no UNIX... heck, no OS will install itself exactly the > way you want it. You'll always have to make adjustments. So just do them > in the OS you're used to. That's what I've been doing -- disabling some of the services. I've been using Fedora for years and not paying much attention to what other distros are doing. It doesn't seem unreasonable to think a distro would target service providers. Those services that I mentioned seem more likely to be used by desktop users. -- Brian Wood Ebenezer Enterprises http://webEbenezer.net (651) 251-9384 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 16:24:06 2013 From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 16:24:06 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Arch Linux is pretty minimal; you'll know exactly what you set up ;-) -- Jeremy MountainJohnson Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Brian Wood wrote: > > Yaron: > >> How about disabling services you don't want? >> >> No Linux... heck, no UNIX... heck, no OS will install itself exactly the >> way you want it. You'll always have to make adjustments. So just do them >> in the OS you're used to. > > That's what I've been doing -- disabling some of the services. > I've been using Fedora for years and not paying much attention > to what other distros are doing. It doesn't seem unreasonable > to think a distro would target service providers. Those services > that I mentioned seem more likely to be used by desktop users. > > -- > Brian Wood > Ebenezer Enterprises > http://webEbenezer.net (651) 251-9384 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From ryanjcole at me.com Sun Feb 3 16:24:24 2013 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 16:24:24 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <510EE398.2020506@me.com> Brian, Let me make you this offer publicly - and anyone else on this list - if you're going to give FreeBSD a shot you can pick my brain when you have questions. Consider it a pay it forward as I still use my original guru as a brain to pick but also a paid engineer when he can do things that I cannot. -- Ryan On 2/3/2013 4:22 PM, Brian Wood wrote: > > Yaron: > > > How about disabling services you don't want? > > > > No Linux... heck, no UNIX... heck, no OS will install itself exactly the > > way you want it. You'll always have to make adjustments. So just do them > > in the OS you're used to. > > That's what I've been doing -- disabling some of the services. > I've been using Fedora for years and not paying much attention > to what other distros are doing. It doesn't seem unreasonable > to think a distro would target service providers. Those services > that I mentioned seem more likely to be used by desktop users. > > -- > Brian Wood > Ebenezer Enterprises > http://webEbenezer.net (651) 251-9384 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 16:36:09 2013 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 16:36:09 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation Message-ID: Ryan Coleman: > How about installing just the services you want? Maybe I'll take another look at freeBSD. But if I find a Linux distro with a more spartan approach I'll probably go that route. -- Brian Wood Ebenezer Enterprises http://webEbenezer.net (651) 251-9384 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Sun Feb 3 16:45:38 2013 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 16:45:38 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <510EE892.1020706@me.com> Sure. BSD definitely has it's short comings (every distro does, though), but I find downloading the fresh ports and installing just what I want and when I want is more fulfilling than having it served to me by another party. On 2/3/2013 4:36 PM, Brian Wood wrote: > Ryan Coleman: > > > How about installing just the services you want? > > Maybe I'll take another look at freeBSD. But if I find a > Linux distro with a more spartan approach I'll probably > go that route. > > > -- > Brian Wood > Ebenezer Enterprises > http://webEbenezer.net (651) 251-9384 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmore at starmind.org Sun Feb 3 16:39:28 2013 From: jmore at starmind.org (Josh More) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 16:39:28 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's been years, but back when I was using OpenSUSE, they had a very impressive bare-bones install that was ideal for making appliances. If they haven't managed to suck completely since the Attachmate acquisition, that might be a good option for you. -Josh More On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 4:36 PM, Brian Wood wrote: > Ryan Coleman: > > > How about installing just the services you want? > > Maybe I'll take another look at freeBSD. But if I find a > Linux distro with a more spartan approach I'll probably > go that route. > > > -- > Brian Wood > Ebenezer Enterprises > http://webEbenezer.net (651) 251-9384 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Sun Feb 3 16:49:39 2013 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 16:49:39 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Feb 2013, Brian Wood wrote: > It doesn't seem unreasonable to think a distro would target service > providers.? Here's the problem with this - every business is different. Back in the Olden Days when we still had many varieties of UNIX all over the place, one of the selling points for SunOS/Solaris/HPUX/AIX/Tru64 and all the other 'real' UNIX-variants over Linux was that they were business oriented. And I can tell you from experience that each and every one of those needed to be customised further by just about every business that used them. You just cannot avoid that. Now you could go the OpenBSD route and just start with EVERYTHING disabled, and then you have to go in and enable everything you want. Whether that is in any way easier to do than shutting down stuff you don't need is ebatable (though the security implications are obvious). this is why big organisations have jumpstart/kickstart servers that install customised versions of the OS. And even then, most places will have their custom hardening scripts. Again, NO DISTRIBUTION will be perfect for you. If you're comfortable with Fedora you should keep using it, and create a hardening script that you can run and will automatically stop/uninstall stuff you don't want. Then just run that after install. It's a lot simpler than moving to a different distro. -- From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com Sun Feb 3 18:19:51 2013 From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 18:19:51 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130203181951.bdd518c195b8c41f3e9271fd@jasonhsu.com> How about Debian? I've been able to get a minimal Debian stable command-line-only setup to work as a firewall/server at home. I wasn't able to figure out how to do this in FreeBSD. On Sun, 3 Feb 2013 15:11:37 -0600 Brian Wood wrote: > I've been using Fedora, but am thinking about trying out another > distro. I'd like to find one that is service oriented. Fedora starts > bluetooth, cups and some other services that I don't think service > providers want. Any ideas? Thanks. > -- Jason Hsu From ecrist at secure-computing.net Sun Feb 3 18:23:48 2013 From: ecrist at secure-computing.net (Eric F Crist) Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 18:23:48 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: <20130203181951.bdd518c195b8c41f3e9271fd@jasonhsu.com> References: <20130203181951.bdd518c195b8c41f3e9271fd@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: <4b6f62fc-f1ef-4cf3-8be5-9d238f7f7807@email.android.com> Speaks more about you than the OS... Regardless what you're speaking of, the fact that you "couldn't figure it out" doesn't mean anything other than you failed. -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ecrist at secure-computing.net Sun Feb 3 18:25:49 2013 From: ecrist at secure-computing.net (Eric F Crist) Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 18:25:49 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: <4b6f62fc-f1ef-4cf3-8be5-9d238f7f7807@email.android.com> References: <20130203181951.bdd518c195b8c41f3e9271fd@jasonhsu.com> <4b6f62fc-f1ef-4cf3-8be5-9d238f7f7807@email.android.com> Message-ID: <9371e034-0763-43cb-b362-bd0b04d59980@email.android.com> That's no attack on you, just the general consensus that if IRS not obvious or automatic, the "thing" is at fault. Eric F Crist wrote: >Speaks more about you than the OS... Regardless what you're speaking >of, the fact that you "couldn't figure it out" doesn't mean anything >other than you failed. >-- >Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list at mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com Sun Feb 3 18:32:33 2013 From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 18:32:33 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: <4b6f62fc-f1ef-4cf3-8be5-9d238f7f7807@email.android.com> References: <20130203181951.bdd518c195b8c41f3e9271fd@jasonhsu.com> <4b6f62fc-f1ef-4cf3-8be5-9d238f7f7807@email.android.com> Message-ID: <20130203183233.bbcd60b0582dc2a397a5e491@jasonhsu.com> On Sun, 03 Feb 2013 18:23:48 -0600 Eric F Crist wrote: > Speaks more about you than the OS... Regardless what you're speaking of, the fact that you "couldn't figure it out" doesn't mean anything other than you failed. > -- I was implying that the Debian is an easier solution than FreeBSD. Even if you don't think that Debian is better supported or intrinsically easier to work with than FreeBSD, the fact remains that Debian's larger user base makes it easier to find help. -- Jason Hsu From stuporglue at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 18:35:36 2013 From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 18:35:36 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: <20130203181951.bdd518c195b8c41f3e9271fd@jasonhsu.com> References: <20130203181951.bdd518c195b8c41f3e9271fd@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Jason Hsu wrote: > How about Debian? I've been able to get a minimal Debian stable command-line-only setup to work as a firewall/server at home. I wasn't able to figure out how to do this in FreeBSD. I like using Debian when I set up servers. It's partly because it's what I'm used to (having run Debian, then Ubuntu then Debian) on my desktop computers, but it's partly because the base install is nice and small, and there's a lot of documentation online (mostly unofficial) and the stable release tends has a long history of being reliable. I've used it with success in a PXE boot environment, in VMs and on real hardware and it's always been a pleasure to work with. Unless there's a compelling reason to use another distro, I'll go with Debian every time. It's probably no better or worse than any of the other distros, but it works for me. Doesn't Fedora / CentOS provide a server install that doesn't include X and all the desktop stuff? If you're a Fedora guy, that'd probably be a good place to start, unless you're looking to learn a new distro. -- Michael Moore From droidjd at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 18:45:34 2013 From: droidjd at gmail.com (Andrew Dahl) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 18:45:34 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: <20130203181951.bdd518c195b8c41f3e9271fd@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: Yeah, in the Fedora/CentOS installs, I do believe there's an option asking what you'll be using the machine for... else, a "server install" is just not selecting any desktop manager. (At which point X wouldn't be installed either, unless you went and selected it) In terms of using Fedora as a server, I tend to shy away from that, only because of the 6-mo release cycle and the 18-mo support life. I usually end up using CentOS for my servers for that reason... but, if I find I need something a bit more bleeding edge, I'll opt for Fedora. On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 6:35 PM, Michael Moore wrote: > On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Jason Hsu wrote: > > How about Debian? I've been able to get a minimal Debian stable > command-line-only setup to work as a firewall/server at home. I wasn't > able to figure out how to do this in FreeBSD. > > I like using Debian when I set up servers. It's partly because it's > what I'm used to (having run Debian, then Ubuntu then Debian) on my > desktop computers, but it's partly because the base install is nice > and small, and there's a lot of documentation online (mostly > unofficial) and the stable release tends has a long history of being > reliable. > > I've used it with success in a PXE boot environment, in VMs and on > real hardware and it's always been a pleasure to work with. > > Unless there's a compelling reason to use another distro, I'll go with > Debian every time. > > It's probably no better or worse than any of the other distros, but it > works for me. > > Doesn't Fedora / CentOS provide a server install that doesn't include > X and all the desktop stuff? If you're a Fedora guy, that'd probably > be a good place to start, unless you're looking to learn a new distro. > -- > Michael Moore > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eng at pinenet.com Sun Feb 3 18:11:04 2013 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 18:11:04 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <510EFC98.3030807@pinenet.com> I just purchased the 32 bit 7 DVD opensuse distro (1 install + 6 repository discs) from OSDisc.com. Tried it on one PC and after a mess up getting better on a re-install. I like the 6 repository DVDs on the computer to avoid the enormous internet use ( 6 months worth ) on my rural limited internet. Those with good connections probably want different. The problem with any distro is the generic kernel and features installed to work on the most systems. So the initial bloat needs to be trimmed. That is where I messed up with the KDE plasma desktop. But the repository has several compiled kernels and several kernel sources. And I think the suse configuration tool Yast is extremely helpful. There is a lot to learn now when configuring your own kernel. What I like most about opensuse is that they haven't dumbed down the product. For example, there are now several very sophisticated protein molecular dynamics 3D packages in the repository. At least a dozen programming languages from scripting to assembly on microcontrollers. One important difference between Linux and BSD was important in kernel features, thus system calls. Another important problem with the DVD set is most program sources are still online. But for those of us simply using header declaration files or kernel sources, all development files exist for the kernel and most other key packages. As for all the services, there is a way to manage that to your liking in Yast. On the whole, I'm finding opensuse 12.2 includes more and better tools to manage the crazy excess capabilities of KDE. While still giving me the rock solid IceWM. I'm a new fan of Xfce, too. All this with no sound, or internet connection, on a 10 year old p4, with years of fun learning to do. What a gift to computing enthusiasts!! Brian Wood wrote: > I've been using Fedora, but am thinking about trying out another > distro. I'd like to find one that is service oriented. Fedora starts > bluetooth, cups and some other services that I don't think service > providers want. Any ideas? Thanks. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 19:34:20 2013 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?bXIuY2hldy5iYWthQGdtYWlsLmNvbQ==?=) Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 19:34:20 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] =?utf-8?q?distro_recommendation?= Message-ID: <510f1026.eaa0320a.71df.ffffdbbc@mx.google.com> Give Slackware a try. ----- Reply message ----- From: "Brian Wood" To: Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation Date: Sun, Feb 3, 2013 16:36 Ryan Coleman: > How about installing just the services you want? Maybe I'll take another look at freeBSD.? But if I find a Linux distro with a more spartan approach I'll probably go that route. -- Brian Wood Ebenezer Enterprises http://webEbenezer.net? ? ? ? ? (651) 251-9384 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 19:50:41 2013 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 19:50:41 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Brian Wood cried from the depths of the abyss... > Maybe I'll take another look at freeBSD.? But if I find a > Linux distro with a more spartan approach I'll probably > go that route. I seriously recommend Slackware. From stuporglue at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 20:55:41 2013 From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 20:55:41 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> Maybe I'll take another look at freeBSD. But if I find a >> Linux distro with a more spartan approach I'll probably >> go that route. > > > I seriously recommend Slackware. I like Slackware and it certainly is spartan if that's what you're going for. The problem is longevity and an upgrade path. We've got a server which has been faithfully running Slackware since 2007ish. As we looked at newer versions of software we want to run on it the list of packages we would have to compile by hand kept getting longer and longer, so we're going to move to a new server. With a Debian server from the same time period we probably could've just upgraded without any major issues. -- Michael From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com Sun Feb 3 20:57:28 2013 From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (kelly) Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 20:57:28 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation References: Message-ID: <510F2398-00054932@penguinpackets.com> ? > Sun Feb 03 2013 04:36:09 PM CST from "Brian Wood" >Subject: Re: [tclug-list] distro recommendation > > Ryan Coleman: > > > How about installing just the services you want? > > > > Maybe I'll take another look at freeBSD.? But if I find a >Linux distro with a more spartan approach I'll probably >go that route. > > --? > > > > > > Slackware minimal package selection looks interesting. ?I have not tried it, but says it weighs in at around 200 MB: http://slackware.com/~vbatts/minimal/ Kelly KB0GBJ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: URL: From wdtj at yahoo.com Sun Feb 3 21:49:33 2013 From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 19:49:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: <20130203181951.bdd518c195b8c41f3e9271fd@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: <1359949773.74873.YahooMailNeo@web121504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I second that.? I have installed several Centos server only systems that don't include X11 stuff.? You can select the Server install, then de-select any services you don't want either.? Pretty soon your down to the kernel and bash.? Nothing simpler.? But then it won't do much either.? Then you can install just what you want with yum.? It's also got a longer lifecycle then fedora too.? ? --- Wayne Johnson,???????????? | There are two kinds of people: Those 3943 Penn Ave. N.????????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done," Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, (612) 522-7003???????????? | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis >________________________________ > From: Andrew Dahl >To: TCLUG Mailing List >Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2013 6:45 PM >Subject: Re: [tclug-list] distro recommendation > > >Yeah, in the Fedora/CentOS installs, I do believe there's an option asking what you'll be using the machine for... else, a "server install" is just not selecting any desktop manager. (At which point X wouldn't be installed either, unless you went and selected it) > >In terms of using Fedora as a server, I tend to shy away from that, only because of the 6-mo release cycle and the 18-mo support life. ?I usually end up using CentOS for my servers for that reason... but, if I find I need something a bit more bleeding edge, I'll opt for Fedora. > > > > >On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 6:35 PM, Michael Moore wrote: > >On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Jason Hsu wrote: >>> How about Debian? ?I've been able to get a minimal Debian stable command-line-only setup to work as a firewall/server at home. ?I wasn't able to figure out how to do this in FreeBSD. >> >>I like using Debian when I set up servers. It's partly because it's >>what I'm used to (having run Debian, then Ubuntu then Debian) on my >>desktop computers, but it's partly because the base install is nice >>and small, and there's a lot of documentation online (mostly >>unofficial) and the stable release tends has a long history of being >>reliable. >> >>I've used it with success in a PXE boot environment, in VMs and on >>real hardware and it's always been a pleasure to work with. >> >>Unless there's a compelling reason to use another distro, I'll go with >>Debian every time. >> >>It's probably no better or worse than any of the other distros, but it >>works for me. >> >>Doesn't Fedora / CentOS provide a server install that doesn't include >>X and all the desktop stuff? If you're a Fedora guy, that'd probably >>be a good place to start, unless you're looking to learn a new distro. >>-- >>Michael Moore >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list at mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trieff at greencaremankato.com Mon Feb 4 07:12:24 2013 From: trieff at greencaremankato.com (Thomas Rieff) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 07:12:24 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Samba Configuration-Ubuntu Server vs Desktop In-Reply-To: <988037257.55678.1359983136867.JavaMail.root@greencaremankato.com> Message-ID: <1046877910.55941.1359983544531.JavaMail.root@greencaremankato.com> TCLUG, I have some Ubuntu desktop machines...one at home and one at the office...that I use for backup of backup of files. Samba was setup using by editing the smb.conf. In the past this worked. Now it seems that any changes here don't have much effect. Seems I have to go to the file folders and activate the share with gui. Is there a lock out feature that desktops are gui only??? Tom Thomas Rieff GreenCare 1717 3rd Avenue Mankato, MN 56001 (507) 344-8314 Office (507) 344-8316 Fax (507) 381-0660 Cell -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Mon Feb 4 08:37:35 2013 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (B-o-B De Mars) Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2013 08:37:35 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Samba Configuration-Ubuntu Server vs Desktop In-Reply-To: <1046877910.55941.1359983544531.JavaMail.root@greencaremankato.com> References: <1046877910.55941.1359983544531.JavaMail.root@greencaremankato.com> Message-ID: <510FC7AF.3070704@gmail.com> On 2/4/2013 7:12 AM, Thomas Rieff wrote:: > TCLUG, > I have some Ubuntu desktop machines...one at home and one at the > office...that I use for backup of backup of files. > Samba was setup using by editing the smb.conf. In the past this worked. > Now it seems that any changes here don't have much effect. Seems I have > to go to the file folders and activate the share with gui. Is there a > lock out feature that desktops are gui only??? > Tom > What kind of changes are you making exactly? After you make the change are you restarting SMB, NMD & WINBIND? From tpenney at gmail.com Mon Feb 4 09:22:35 2013 From: tpenney at gmail.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 09:22:35 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I haven't heard anyone mention CentOS. If your use to admining Fedora I would say cent is the most similar distro and I think would be the easiest to transition to. It's certainly not the favorite of people here for valid reasons. On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Yaron wrote: > > On Sun, 3 Feb 2013, Brian Wood wrote: > >> It doesn't seem unreasonable to think a distro would target service >> providers. > > > Here's the problem with this - every business is different. > > Back in the Olden Days when we still had many varieties of UNIX all over the > place, one of the selling points for SunOS/Solaris/HPUX/AIX/Tru64 and all > the other 'real' UNIX-variants over Linux was that they were business > oriented. And I can tell you from experience that each and every one of > those needed to be customised further by just about every business that used > them. > > You just cannot avoid that. > > Now you could go the OpenBSD route and just start with EVERYTHING disabled, > and then you have to go in and enable everything you want. Whether that is > in any way easier to do than shutting down stuff you don't need is ebatable > (though the security implications are obvious). > > this is why big organisations have jumpstart/kickstart servers that install > customised versions of the OS. And even then, most places will have their > custom hardening scripts. > > Again, NO DISTRIBUTION will be perfect for you. If you're comfortable with > Fedora you should keep using it, and create a hardening script that you can > run and will automatically stop/uninstall stuff you don't want. Then just > run that after install. It's a lot simpler than moving to a different > distro. > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Tom Penney 952-200-3363 From droidjd at gmail.com Mon Feb 4 09:28:16 2013 From: droidjd at gmail.com (Andrew Dahl) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 09:28:16 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My reluctance to recommend Cent, in this case, really comes from its seemingly similar nature of including things you may not want. (Only if you're not sure what you want and allow the defaults) Regardless of what distro you install though, I think, in the end, you're going to need to know what you want to run and get rid of the rest, if that's what's important. So, I guess with a strict eye towards servers, I'd recommend CentOS too, given your use of Fedora. Thanks for pointing that out, Tom. :-) On Feb 4, 2013 9:23 AM, "Tom Penney" wrote: > I haven't heard anyone mention CentOS. If your use to admining Fedora > I would say cent is the most similar distro and I think would be the > easiest to transition to. It's certainly not the favorite of people > here for valid reasons. > > On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Yaron wrote: > > > > On Sun, 3 Feb 2013, Brian Wood wrote: > > > >> It doesn't seem unreasonable to think a distro would target service > >> providers. > > > > > > Here's the problem with this - every business is different. > > > > Back in the Olden Days when we still had many varieties of UNIX all over > the > > place, one of the selling points for SunOS/Solaris/HPUX/AIX/Tru64 and all > > the other 'real' UNIX-variants over Linux was that they were business > > oriented. And I can tell you from experience that each and every one of > > those needed to be customised further by just about every business that > used > > them. > > > > You just cannot avoid that. > > > > Now you could go the OpenBSD route and just start with EVERYTHING > disabled, > > and then you have to go in and enable everything you want. Whether that > is > > in any way easier to do than shutting down stuff you don't need is > ebatable > > (though the security implications are obvious). > > > > this is why big organisations have jumpstart/kickstart servers that > install > > customised versions of the OS. And even then, most places will have their > > custom hardening scripts. > > > > Again, NO DISTRIBUTION will be perfect for you. If you're comfortable > with > > Fedora you should keep using it, and create a hardening script that you > can > > run and will automatically stop/uninstall stuff you don't want. Then just > > run that after install. It's a lot simpler than moving to a different > > distro. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > -- > Tom Penney > 952-200-3363 > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Feb 4 10:36:04 2013 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 10:36:04 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Samba Configuration-Ubuntu Server vs Desktop In-Reply-To: <510FC7AF.3070704@gmail.com> References: <1046877910.55941.1359983544531.JavaMail.root@greencaremankato.com> <510FC7AF.3070704@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Feb 2013, B-o-B De Mars wrote: > On 2/4/2013 7:12 AM, Thomas Rieff wrote:: >> >> I have some Ubuntu desktop machines...one at home and one at the >> office...that I use for backup of backup of files. Samba was setup >> using by editing the smb.conf. In the past this worked. Now it seems >> that any changes here don't have much effect. Seems I have to go to the >> file folders and activate the share with gui. Is there a lock out >> feature that desktops are gui only??? >> > > What kind of changes are you making exactly? > > After you make the change are you restarting SMB, NMD & WINBIND? I'm not the OP... I only restart smbd after making changes to the config, and that seems to be enough. I also don't see nmd or winbind running on my system where smbd is working. My Ubuntu machine is a little long in the tooth, though -- 10.10. Mike From florin at iucha.net Mon Feb 4 10:52:24 2013 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 10:52:24 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130204165224.GD12411@signbit.net> On Mon, Feb 04, 2013 at 09:28:16AM -0600, Andrew Dahl wrote: > My reluctance to recommend Cent, in this case, really comes from its > seemingly similar nature of including things you may not want. (Only if > you're not sure what you want and allow the defaults) My reluctance to recommend CentOS (despite still using it on two servers for legacy reasons) is that it is controlled by a small and closed group - at some point, while they were busy spinning 6.0 they left 5.x (5.2 or 5.3) without security updates for a few months! I was following their mailing lists, but the leader kept saying that people don't want to help with the "real work" and just want to get advance access to the bits for some other reason. From the outside, and as an end-user, it looked really bad and on its way out. I'm surprised they are still around. Cheers, florin -- Beware of software written by optimists! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Mon Feb 4 13:17:25 2013 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 13:17:25 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation Message-ID: I decided to try Debian and have installed it on a test machine. I thought its install process was clearer than Fedoras. With Fedora I've been downloading one of the options from this page -- https://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora-options and putting it on a flash drive. Not sure if there are other options that would be closer to what I want with Fedora, but have noticed that the Debian system has roughly 35 fewer tasks than the Fedora machine I use as my server. I've not got the Debian completely configured, but am just counting how many processes there would be if I did. (And I've disabled about 5 or 6 processes already on the Fedora machine like bluetooth and cups.) I've been using systemd on Fedora and it doesn't look like that's running on Debian so would have to either install that or change to using whatever Debian is using. Is anyone using systemd on Debian? I've used apt in the past so don't think it will take long to get used to that. Other than that I think there are some name changes (httpd/apache2) and different locations for files. -- Brian Wood Ebenezer Enterprises http://webEbenezer.net (651) 251-9384 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nesius at gmail.com Mon Feb 4 14:20:15 2013 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 14:20:15 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: <20130204165224.GD12411@signbit.net> References: <20130204165224.GD12411@signbit.net> Message-ID: I was a little surprised while people were talking about *BSDs no one mentioned OpenBSD. Of the BSDs, probably the one I'd reach for first if I was deploying it with an exposure to the Internet. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Mon Feb 4 15:07:28 2013 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 15:07:28 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: <20130204165224.GD12411@signbit.net> Message-ID: I've used OpenBSD in the past -- long time ago now. I always liked it. You definitely do start out with a minimal install, and then start adding only what you need. -Erik On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 2:20 PM, Robert Nesius wrote: > I was a little surprised while people were talking about *BSDs no one > mentioned OpenBSD. Of the BSDs, probably the one I'd reach for first if I > was deploying it with an exposure to the Internet. > > -Rob > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Erik K. Mitchell erik.mitchell at gmail.com From nmarkon at gmail.com Mon Feb 4 16:00:29 2013 From: nmarkon at gmail.com (Noah Markon) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 16:00:29 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: <20130204165224.GD12411@signbit.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 3:07 PM, Erik Mitchell wrote: > I've used OpenBSD in the past -- long time ago now. I always liked it. > You definitely do start out with a minimal install, and then start > adding only what you need. > > -Erik > I'm not using Linux as much as in the past, however I used Ubuntu Server edition for a long, long time.. I'm not sure what services where installed by default, however I know there was no GUI. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Mon Feb 4 21:04:38 2013 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 21:04:38 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation Message-ID: As an update, I'm sorry to report that Debian started bluetooth and cups services by default. None of my computers have bluetooth adapters so wish this didn't happen. In looking into this I found a guy that, like me, was recently irritated that bluetooth gets started by default -- http://ubuntu.5.n6.nabble.com/Stopping-bluetooth-td4894591.html Could the slackware proponents tell me if either bluetooth or cups are started by default on slackware? -- Brian Wood Ebenezer Enterprises http://webEbenezer.net (651) 251-9384 From sfertch at gmail.com Mon Feb 4 21:09:44 2013 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 21:09:44 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 9:04 PM, Brian Wood wrote: > As an update, I'm sorry to report that Debian started bluetooth > and cups services by default. None of my computers have > bluetooth adapters so wish this didn't happen. > In looking into this I found a guy that, like me, was recently > irritated that bluetooth gets started by default -- > > http://ubuntu.5.n6.nabble.com/Stopping-bluetooth-td4894591.html > > Could the slackware proponents tell me if either bluetooth > or cups are started by default on slackware? > Out of curiosity, why does it matter? Just turn off the auto start. Even the large, commercial UNIX systems have systems enabled which aren't needed by default. A good sysadmin audits a system and turns on what they need, and turns off what they don't. I doubt you will find any distro that has exactly the services running in default mode that you specifically want. -- -Shawn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Mon Feb 4 21:10:48 2013 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2013 21:10:48 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7A5B29DA-DFD2-4757-8E92-A536BBD6ED10@me.com> Well... How about the extra libraries that eat up space? On Feb 4, 2013, at 21:09, Shawn Fertch wrote: > On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 9:04 PM, Brian Wood wrote: >> As an update, I'm sorry to report that Debian started bluetooth >> and cups services by default. None of my computers have >> bluetooth adapters so wish this didn't happen. >> In looking into this I found a guy that, like me, was recently >> irritated that bluetooth gets started by default -- >> >> http://ubuntu.5.n6.nabble.com/Stopping-bluetooth-td4894591.html >> >> Could the slackware proponents tell me if either bluetooth >> or cups are started by default on slackware? > > Out of curiosity, why does it matter? Just turn off the auto start. Even the large, commercial UNIX systems have systems enabled which aren't needed by default. A good sysadmin audits a system and turns on what they need, and turns off what they don't. > > I doubt you will find any distro that has exactly the services running in default mode that you specifically want. > > > -- > -Shawn > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Mon Feb 4 21:16:02 2013 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 21:16:02 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: <7A5B29DA-DFD2-4757-8E92-A536BBD6ED10@me.com> References: <7A5B29DA-DFD2-4757-8E92-A536BBD6ED10@me.com> Message-ID: Ugh. On Mon, 4 Feb 2013, Ryan Coleman wrote: > Well... How about the extra libraries that eat up space? Like a subset of us keep saying, NO OPERATING SYSTEM will install a perfect OS for you out of the box. You may as well get used to it and write up some hardening scripts that will stop services you don't want and remove packages you don't need. Hell, next thing you'll complain that the default OS install doesn't populate hosts.allow and hosts.deny for you and doesn't populate the iptables/whatever firewall ruleset. You need to KNOW YOUR OPERATING SYSTEM and customise it for your needs. I use Ubuntu Server on my servers. I have for years. What does that mean? It means I can harden those guys in my sleep, is what it means. It does NOT mean they install a perfect OS. -- From sfertch at gmail.com Mon Feb 4 21:16:22 2013 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 21:16:22 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: <7A5B29DA-DFD2-4757-8E92-A536BBD6ED10@me.com> References: <7A5B29DA-DFD2-4757-8E92-A536BBD6ED10@me.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 9:10 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > Well... How about the extra libraries that eat up space? > If you don't need it, uninstall it. If you don't need it, and can't uninstall it due to being a dependency of another package/program disable it. Seems simple enough... -- -Shawn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Mon Feb 4 21:17:20 2013 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2013 21:17:20 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: <7A5B29DA-DFD2-4757-8E92-A536BBD6ED10@me.com> Message-ID: There's no need to tell at me... I was just offering one explanation to the posters question. On Feb 4, 2013, at 21:16, Yaron wrote: > Ugh. > > On Mon, 4 Feb 2013, Ryan Coleman wrote: > >> Well... How about the extra libraries that eat up space? > > Like a subset of us keep saying, NO OPERATING SYSTEM will install a perfect OS for you out of the box. You may as well get used to it and write up some hardening scripts that will stop services you don't want and remove packages you don't need. Hell, next thing you'll complain that the default OS install doesn't populate hosts.allow and hosts.deny for you and doesn't populate the iptables/whatever firewall ruleset. > > You need to KNOW YOUR OPERATING SYSTEM and customise it for your needs. > > I use Ubuntu Server on my servers. I have for years. What does that mean? It means I can harden those guys in my sleep, is what it means. It does NOT mean they install a perfect OS. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at freakzilla.com Mon Feb 4 21:19:32 2013 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 21:19:32 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: <7A5B29DA-DFD2-4757-8E92-A536BBD6ED10@me.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Feb 2013, Ryan Coleman wrote: > There's no need to tell at me... I was just offering one explanation to the posters question. I'm sorry, Ryan, but I don't think "I want a distro that doesn't enable bluetooth by default because the libraries take up space" is a valid explanation (; plus it's not what Brian is asking. I'm trying to tell him that no distro is going to fit him perfectly. Nothing he can do about it (barring starting his own distro). -- From ryanjcole at me.com Mon Feb 4 21:21:53 2013 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2013 21:21:53 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: <7A5B29DA-DFD2-4757-8E92-A536BBD6ED10@me.com> Message-ID: <00A0AE6A-2C5E-4F8A-A10F-106A5091E7EA@me.com> I never wrote that, dammit. "Well... How about the extra libraries that eat up space?" Don't put words in my email. My response is valid and to the point. Your blatant disregard for the words I chose is not. On Feb 4, 2013, at 21:19, Yaron wrote: > > > On Mon, 4 Feb 2013, Ryan Coleman wrote: > >> There's no need to tell at me... I was just offering one explanation to the posters question. > > > I'm sorry, Ryan, but I don't think "I want a distro that doesn't enable bluetooth by default because the libraries take up space" is a valid explanation (; plus it's not what Brian is asking. I'm trying to tell him that no distro is going to fit him perfectly. Nothing he can do about it (barring starting his own distro). > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at freakzilla.com Mon Feb 4 21:25:31 2013 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 21:25:31 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: <00A0AE6A-2C5E-4F8A-A10F-106A5091E7EA@me.com> References: <7A5B29DA-DFD2-4757-8E92-A536BBD6ED10@me.com> <00A0AE6A-2C5E-4F8A-A10F-106A5091E7EA@me.com> Message-ID: ... Your explanation is that he'd want it not installed because it takes up space. I'm saying that A. He didn't say that, and B. That's not really a valid reason. I am NOT personally attacking you. I am now dropping this thread. On Mon, 4 Feb 2013, Ryan Coleman wrote: > I never wrote that, dammit. > > "Well... How about the extra libraries that eat up space?" > > Don't put words in my email. > > My response is valid and to the point. Your blatant disregard for the words I chose is not. > > > On Feb 4, 2013, at 21:19, Yaron wrote: > >> >> >> On Mon, 4 Feb 2013, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> >>> There's no need to tell at me... I was just offering one explanation to the posters question. >> >> >> I'm sorry, Ryan, but I don't think "I want a distro that doesn't enable bluetooth by default because the libraries take up space" is a valid explanation (; plus it's not what Brian is asking. I'm trying to tell him that no distro is going to fit him perfectly. Nothing he can do about it (barring starting his own distro). >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com Mon Feb 4 22:34:40 2013 From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 22:34:40 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130204223440.344361aef94ae7939167469b@jasonhsu.com> Try a minimal Debian installation. When the installer gives you a list of meta-packages to install (like the desktop packages, laptop packages, server packages, etc.), do not install ANY of them. This gives you the most minimal Debian installation possible. Then you can add/enable services one by one. On Mon, 4 Feb 2013 21:04:38 -0600 Brian Wood wrote: > As an update, I'm sorry to report that Debian started bluetooth > and cups services by default. None of my computers have > bluetooth adapters so wish this didn't happen. > In looking into this I found a guy that, like me, was recently > irritated that bluetooth gets started by default -- > > http://ubuntu.5.n6.nabble.com/Stopping-bluetooth-td4894591.html > > Could the slackware proponents tell me if either bluetooth > or cups are started by default on slackware? > -- Jason Hsu From florin at iucha.net Mon Feb 4 22:59:48 2013 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 22:59:48 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: <20130204165224.GD12411@signbit.net> Message-ID: <20130205045948.GF12411@signbit.net> On Mon, Feb 04, 2013 at 02:20:15PM -0600, Robert Nesius wrote: > I was a little surprised while people were talking about *BSDs no one > mentioned OpenBSD. Of the BSDs, probably the one I'd reach for first if I > was deploying it with an exposure to the Internet. It depends what else you are doing with the box. If you start to add php, ruby, mysql... building those from ports for every security release starts to be a pain. Plus it means you have to have a second box to build it on (which you should anyway, for dry run updates). The BSD ports were hot 10 years ago. Now they are kind of long in the tooth. Cheers, florin -- Beware of software written by optimists! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From florin at iucha.net Mon Feb 4 23:01:42 2013 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 23:01:42 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: <20130204223440.344361aef94ae7939167469b@jasonhsu.com> References: <20130204223440.344361aef94ae7939167469b@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: <20130205050141.GG12411@signbit.net> On Mon, Feb 04, 2013 at 10:34:40PM -0600, Jason Hsu wrote: > Try a minimal Debian installation. When the installer gives you a > list of meta-packages to install (like the desktop packages, laptop > packages, server packages, etc.), do not install ANY of them. This > gives you the most minimal Debian installation possible. Then you can > add/enable services one by one. Good advice, Jason. (I am doing that for years, even for a desktop boxes). Cheers, florin -- Beware of software written by optimists! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Mon Feb 4 23:06:32 2013 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 23:06:32 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: <20130205045948.GF12411@signbit.net> References: <20130204165224.GD12411@signbit.net> <20130205045948.GF12411@signbit.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Feb 04, 2013 at 02:20:15PM -0600, Robert Nesius wrote: > I was a little surprised while people were talking about *BSDs no one > mentioned OpenBSD. Of the BSDs, probably the one I'd reach for first if I Actually, I mentioned it waaaaaay at the beginning. (; -- From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com Mon Feb 4 23:12:07 2013 From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (kelly) Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2013 23:12:07 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation References: Message-ID: <511094A7-00054B40@penguinpackets.com> I would doubt that Slack enables bluetooth or cups, but I am not running current (i.e. Slack 14) just yet. ?I know that is conservative, but I will let you know after my download finishes and set up a vm. ?I am getting the iso now. ?Not so sure why you need that. ?If you are trying to tailor a system to your needs, you might want to make a package seleciton based on what I posted before, or do some sort of Debian FAI installer that is a cut list from the full installer. ?I guess I don't know what you are asking for without some parameters to reply coherently. Kelly KB0GBJ? > Mon Feb 04 2013 09:04:38 PM CST from "Brian Wood" >Subject: Re: [tclug-list] distro recommendation > > As an update, I'm sorry to report that Debian started bluetooth > and cups services by default. None of my computers have > bluetooth adapters so wish this didn't happen. > In looking into this I found a guy that, like me, was recently > irritated that bluetooth gets started by default -- > > http://ubuntu.5.n6.nabble.com/Stopping-bluetooth-td4894591.html > > Could the slackware proponents tell me if either bluetooth > or cups are started by default on slackware? > > -- > Brian Wood > Ebenezer Enterprises > http://webEbenezer.net (651) 251-9384 > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Tue Feb 5 00:36:32 2013 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (B-o-B De Mars) Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 00:36:32 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: <511094A7-00054B40@penguinpackets.com> References: <511094A7-00054B40@penguinpackets.com> Message-ID: <5110A870.8090905@gmail.com> On 2/4/2013 11:12 PM, kelly wrote:: > I would doubt that Slack enables bluetooth or cups, but I am not running > current (i.e. Slack 14) just yet. I know that is conservative, but I > will let you know after my download finishes and set up a vm. I am > getting the iso now. Not so sure why you need that. If you are trying > to tailor a system to your needs, you might want to make a package > seleciton based on what I posted before, or do some sort of Debian FAI > installer that is a cut list from the full installer. I guess I don't > know what you are asking for without some parameters to reply coherently. > Slackware does not enable bluetooth, cups, or any other service for that matter unless you request it during the install. It's the opposite (which I like) of the more popular distros that all the cool kids are using. You start with nothing, and turn on services as needed versus starting with everything only having to shut things down. It's also fairly flexible as to what you want installed too. Min life support all the way up to everything & the kitchen sink. It defaults to run level 3 out of the box, but comes with a handful of different GUI's as well www.slackbuilds.org has been doing a really nice job providing build scripts for software not included in the stock distro. It's not for everyone, but I recommend it to anyone. From joel.longanecker at gmail.com Tue Feb 5 10:27:55 2013 From: joel.longanecker at gmail.com (Joel Longanecker) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 10:27:55 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: <5110A870.8090905@gmail.com> References: <511094A7-00054B40@penguinpackets.com> <5110A870.8090905@gmail.com> Message-ID: If turning services on and off is a challenge for an individual, and the default services are the basis for choosing a distro, one must wonder if Linux is the correct tool of choice for the task at hand. Is it appropriate for a toddler to be operating a skid loader? Nobody is going to fork Ubuntu because they really hate cups or Bluetooth. On Feb 5, 2013 12:36 AM, "B-o-B De Mars" wrote: > On 2/4/2013 11:12 PM, kelly wrote:: > >> I would doubt that Slack enables bluetooth or cups, but I am not running >> current (i.e. Slack 14) just yet. I know that is conservative, but I >> will let you know after my download finishes and set up a vm. I am >> getting the iso now. Not so sure why you need that. If you are trying >> to tailor a system to your needs, you might want to make a package >> seleciton based on what I posted before, or do some sort of Debian FAI >> installer that is a cut list from the full installer. I guess I don't >> know what you are asking for without some parameters to reply coherently. >> >> > Slackware does not enable bluetooth, cups, or any other service for that > matter unless you request it during the install. It's the opposite (which > I like) of the more popular distros that all the cool kids are using. You > start with nothing, and turn on services as needed versus starting with > everything only having to shut things down. > > It's also fairly flexible as to what you want installed too. Min life > support all the way up to everything & the kitchen sink. > > It defaults to run level 3 out of the box, but comes with a handful of > different GUI's as well > > www.slackbuilds.org has been doing a really nice job providing build > scripts for software not included in the stock distro. > > It's not for everyone, but I recommend it to anyone. > ______________________________**_________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Tue Feb 5 10:33:14 2013 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 10:33:14 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: <511094A7-00054B40@penguinpackets.com> <5110A870.8090905@gmail.com> Message-ID: But what if there was a distro that didn't have any services at all? No features! Kind of reminds me of this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CPKPpgJAwo now to fit in on the seattle scene you've gotta do somethin' they ain't never seen so thinkin' up a gimmick one day we decided to be the only band that wouldn't play a note under any circumstances silence music's original alternative root's grunge -Erik On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 10:27 AM, Joel Longanecker wrote: > If turning services on and off is a challenge for an individual, and the > default services are the basis for choosing a distro, one must wonder if > Linux is the correct tool of choice for the task at hand. Is it appropriate > for a toddler to be operating a skid loader? Nobody is going to fork Ubuntu > because they really hate cups or Bluetooth. > > On Feb 5, 2013 12:36 AM, "B-o-B De Mars" wrote: >> >> On 2/4/2013 11:12 PM, kelly wrote:: >>> >>> I would doubt that Slack enables bluetooth or cups, but I am not running >>> current (i.e. Slack 14) just yet. I know that is conservative, but I >>> will let you know after my download finishes and set up a vm. I am >>> getting the iso now. Not so sure why you need that. If you are trying >>> to tailor a system to your needs, you might want to make a package >>> seleciton based on what I posted before, or do some sort of Debian FAI >>> installer that is a cut list from the full installer. I guess I don't >>> know what you are asking for without some parameters to reply coherently. >>> >> >> Slackware does not enable bluetooth, cups, or any other service for that >> matter unless you request it during the install. It's the opposite (which I >> like) of the more popular distros that all the cool kids are using. You >> start with nothing, and turn on services as needed versus starting with >> everything only having to shut things down. >> >> It's also fairly flexible as to what you want installed too. Min life >> support all the way up to everything & the kitchen sink. >> >> It defaults to run level 3 out of the box, but comes with a handful of >> different GUI's as well >> >> www.slackbuilds.org has been doing a really nice job providing build >> scripts for software not included in the stock distro. >> >> It's not for everyone, but I recommend it to anyone. >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Erik K. Mitchell erik.mitchell at gmail.com From stuporglue at gmail.com Tue Feb 5 10:39:14 2013 From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 10:39:14 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: <511094A7-00054B40@penguinpackets.com> <5110A870.8090905@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Erik Mitchell wrote: > But what if there was a distro that didn't have any services at all? Something like Core Linux? http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/downloads.html "Core is the base system which provides only a command line interface and is therefore recommended for experienced users only. Command line tools are provided so that extensions can be added to create a system with a graphical desktop environment. Ideal for servers, appliances, and custom desktops. " I believe it's just a kernel and busybox. I used it once to chroot into a broken debian install to fix Grub. -- Michael Moore From joel.longanecker at gmail.com Tue Feb 5 10:45:25 2013 From: joel.longanecker at gmail.com (Joel Longanecker) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 10:45:25 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: <511094A7-00054B40@penguinpackets.com> <5110A870.8090905@gmail.com> Message-ID: Mutter? Mutter is for quitters. On Feb 5, 2013 10:33 AM, "Erik Mitchell" wrote: > But what if there was a distro that didn't have any services at all? > No features! Kind of reminds me of this song: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CPKPpgJAwo > > > now to fit in on the seattle scene > you've gotta do somethin' they ain't never seen > so thinkin' up a gimmick one day > we decided to be the only band that wouldn't play a note > under any circumstances > silence > music's original alternative > root's grunge > > > -Erik > > On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 10:27 AM, Joel Longanecker > wrote: > > If turning services on and off is a challenge for an individual, and the > > default services are the basis for choosing a distro, one must wonder if > > Linux is the correct tool of choice for the task at hand. Is it > appropriate > > for a toddler to be operating a skid loader? Nobody is going to fork > Ubuntu > > because they really hate cups or Bluetooth. > > > > On Feb 5, 2013 12:36 AM, "B-o-B De Mars" wrote: > >> > >> On 2/4/2013 11:12 PM, kelly wrote:: > >>> > >>> I would doubt that Slack enables bluetooth or cups, but I am not > running > >>> current (i.e. Slack 14) just yet. I know that is conservative, but I > >>> will let you know after my download finishes and set up a vm. I am > >>> getting the iso now. Not so sure why you need that. If you are trying > >>> to tailor a system to your needs, you might want to make a package > >>> seleciton based on what I posted before, or do some sort of Debian FAI > >>> installer that is a cut list from the full installer. I guess I don't > >>> know what you are asking for without some parameters to reply > coherently. > >>> > >> > >> Slackware does not enable bluetooth, cups, or any other service for that > >> matter unless you request it during the install. It's the opposite > (which I > >> like) of the more popular distros that all the cool kids are using. You > >> start with nothing, and turn on services as needed versus starting with > >> everything only having to shut things down. > >> > >> It's also fairly flexible as to what you want installed too. Min life > >> support all the way up to everything & the kitchen sink. > >> > >> It defaults to run level 3 out of the box, but comes with a handful of > >> different GUI's as well > >> > >> www.slackbuilds.org has been doing a really nice job providing build > >> scripts for software not included in the stock distro. > >> > >> It's not for everyone, but I recommend it to anyone. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > -- > Erik K. Mitchell > erik.mitchell at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Tue Feb 5 11:10:28 2013 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 11:10:28 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation Message-ID: > Out of curiosity, why does it matter? Just turn off the auto start. Even > the large, commercial UNIX systems have systems enabled which aren't needed > by default. A good sysadmin audits a system and turns on what they need, > and turns off what they don't. What Ryan Coleman said about the space is a factor. I'm not the greatest sysadmin so from my perspective adding a known set of things makes more sense than subtracting a changing set of things. With Fedora it looks like it would be subtracting dozens of services. (I only know what a few of those are and am not that interested in figuring out what the others are. Probably professional sysadmins know what every process does, but I don't so I have to do some research to figure out what is and isn't needed.) > I doubt you will find any distro that has exactly the services running in > default mode that you specifically want. OK, but I've not checked out other possibilities recently so think it makes sense to do so. Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuporglue at gmail.com Tue Feb 5 14:11:19 2013 From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 14:11:19 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Portuguese definition dictionary for Linux? Message-ID: Does anyone know of a Portuguese definition dictionary program for Linux? I'd probably more likely be a generic dictionary program with a Portuguese language pack. I'm not looking for a spelling dictionary. I'd like to look up definitions without using the internet with the definitions also in Portuguese. I can just download the Portuguese Wiktionary, but it seems like there should probably be a simpler desktop program that I'm just not finding. Thanks, Michael Moore -- Support the digitization of the Iron County Miner newspaper archives Like this project on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/digitizeicm From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Tue Feb 5 15:53:20 2013 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (B-o-B De Mars) Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 15:53:20 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Portuguese definition dictionary for Linux? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51117F50.3090803@gmail.com> On 2/5/2013 2:11 PM, Michael Moore wrote:: > Does anyone know of a Portuguese definition dictionary program for > Linux? I'd probably more likely be a generic dictionary program with a > Portuguese language pack. > > I'm not looking for a spelling dictionary. I'd like to look up > definitions without using the internet with the definitions also in > Portuguese. > I don't know of anything like this, but have you tried to google search this request in Portuguese? It might turn up return better results. Just a thought. From kc0iog at gmail.com Tue Feb 5 16:03:39 2013 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 16:03:39 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] How to debug an intermittent super hard freeze? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I accidentally pulled the cable connecting this > server to our FC network, effectively pulling its storage subsystem out from > under its feet. > > I re-patched that cable, then pulled up this server's console, fully > expecting to see a kernel panic. Instead of seeing that, I saw what appeared > to be a completely functional system. Often times if the OS is booting from SAN they will do this. In Windows, you can leave it in that state for days and it will come right back. Linux on the other hand will eventually run itself out of memory and slowly die. If you're booting locally but using SAN attached volumes, it'll probably panic if it needs that particular file system. One of my favorite demonstrations was running I/O against a storage system, shutting down the storage, waiting 10 minutes, bring it back up and the OS has no idea the SAN was down. Pretty resilient stuff. Brian From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Feb 5 21:18:01 2013 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 21:18:01 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Silicon Valley on American Experience Message-ID: I think most of you will like this show: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/silicon/ It's on right now, ending in a few minutes, but it's repeating in HD on PBS Channel 2 both tonight at 2:00 a.m. and Sunday at 3:30 p.m. It's also playing on some other local PBS channels. It's a 90 minute show. Mike From david.nelsen at slingshot-hci.com Tue Feb 5 22:38:04 2013 From: david.nelsen at slingshot-hci.com (David Nelsen) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 22:38:04 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Silicon Valley on American Experience In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh man thanks for the reminder. Definately want to see this. David Nelsen, BoTG Healthcare Technical Analyst Slingshot Healthcare Informatics Office 651.472.5678 Skype: slingshot.hci On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 9:18 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > I think most of you will like this show: > > http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/**americanexperience/films/**silicon/ > > It's on right now, ending in a few minutes, but it's repeating in HD on > PBS Channel 2 both tonight at 2:00 a.m. and Sunday at 3:30 p.m. It's also > playing on some other local PBS channels. > > It's a 90 minute show. > > Mike > ______________________________**_________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 10:55:37 2013 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 10:55:37 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Brian Wood cried from the depths of the abyss... > OK, but I've not checked out other possibilities recently so think it > makes sense to do so. You might find this atricle of interest. http://www.pcworld.com/article/2027227/which-linux-distro-is-best-survey-says-slackware.html From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 13:14:07 2013 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 13:14:07 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation Message-ID: Mr. B-o-B: > You might find this atricle of interest. > > http://www.pcworld.com/article/2027227/which-linux-distro-is-best-survey-says-slackware.html Thanks. I'm still on Debian. I took Jason's advice and deselected some things while installing. The Debian system with everything I need running on it has about 50 fewer tasks than my Fedora server. I'll keep Slackware, CentOS and some of the others in mind if I decide not to use Debian. -- Brian Wood Ebenezer Enterprises - so far G-d has helped us. http://webEbenezer.net (651) 251-9384 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 15:11:39 2013 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (B-o-B De Mars) Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2013 15:11:39 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5112C70B.2050604@gmail.com> On 2/6/2013 1:14 PM, Brian Wood wrote:: > Mr. B-o-B: > > > You might find this atricle of interest. > > > > > http://www.pcworld.com/article/2027227/which-linux-distro-is-best-survey-says-slackware.html > > > > Thanks. I'm still on Debian. I took Jason's advice and deselected > some things while installing. The Debian system with everything > I need running on it has about 50 fewer tasks than my Fedora > server. I'll keep Slackware, CentOS and some of the others in > mind if I decide not to use Debian. > Debian is a solid choice. From dan_gawarecki at datacard.com Thu Feb 7 12:34:14 2013 From: dan_gawarecki at datacard.com (Dan Gawarecki) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 12:34:14 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Recommendations for wiki software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4835373F9893BF45BF3AD6612B78939813EAE4BAA6@EXCMS.corporate.datacard.com> Hello Fellow TC Linux Users: I want to set up a wiki my family can use, and eventually extend it such that it could be used by volunteer/non-profit groups that I am a member of. Ergo, my first requirement is ease of use for the end user - which means a WYSIWYG editor: I just cannot see my wife editing the source to use "codes" - neither of us has enough time for that option. Secondly, I also want to build my Linux knowledge to wean myself off Microsoft products. If I did want to build the wiki on Windows, my first choice would be MindTouch's product (have it at work and I am pretty satisfied with it, *especially* compared to Sharepoint (ugh) with is corporate standard). I know MindTouch used to have a "community" website (opengarden.org?) and that Penguins Unbound's Site is using "MindTouch TCS", but in trying to find something on MindTouch's Corporate site about any "community" oriented versions is tough as the target audience is strictly the corporate world. This made me wonder if there are other offerings available? A friend who works at the U said they use DocuWiki, but that doesn't appear to have a WYSIWIG editor, although the editor does have "shortcut" icons that would go a long way towards usability - still a WYWIWYG editor is still top requirement. Your advice and input would be appreciated. +Dan Gawarecki+ NOTICE - This message and any attachment(s) are for authorized use by the intended recipient(s) only and may contain privileged or confidential information. Unless you are an intended recipient, you may not use, copy, retain, or disclose to anyone any information contained in this message and any attachment(s). If you are not an intended recipient of this message, please immediately contact the sender and delete this message and any attachment(s). From max at bernsteinforpresident.com Thu Feb 7 13:07:39 2013 From: max at bernsteinforpresident.com (Max Shinn) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 13:07:39 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Recommendations for wiki software In-Reply-To: <4835373F9893BF45BF3AD6612B78939813EAE4BAA6@EXCMS.corporate.datacard.com> References: <4835373F9893BF45BF3AD6612B78939813EAE4BAA6@EXCMS.corporate.datacard.com> Message-ID: About 5 years (i.e. eons) ago, I did a thorough review of free software WYSIWYG wikis. My favorite was SpeedyWiki. I contributed some code to the project I believe. A quick Google search tells me that it's no longer available online, however since it's GPL'ed I'd be happy to post my personal repo of it online if you're interested. On 2/7/13, Dan Gawarecki wrote: > Hello Fellow TC Linux Users: > I want to set up a wiki my family can use, and eventually extend > it such that it could be used by volunteer/non-profit groups that > I am a member of. Ergo, my first requirement is ease of use for > the end user - which means a WYSIWYG editor: I just cannot > see my wife editing the source to use "codes" - neither of us has > enough time for that option. > > Secondly, I also want to build my Linux knowledge to wean myself off > Microsoft > products. If I did want to build the wiki on Windows, my first choice would > be > MindTouch's product (have it at work and I am pretty satisfied with it, > *especially* compared to Sharepoint (ugh) with is corporate standard). > I know MindTouch used to have a "community" website (opengarden.org?) > and that Penguins Unbound's Site is using "MindTouch TCS", but in trying > to find something on MindTouch's Corporate site about any "community" > oriented versions is tough as the target audience is strictly the corporate > world. > > This made me wonder if there are other offerings available? A friend who > works at the U said they use DocuWiki, but that doesn't appear to have > a WYSIWIG editor, although the editor does have "shortcut" icons that > would go a long way towards usability - still a WYWIWYG editor is still > top requirement. > > Your advice and input would be appreciated. > > +Dan Gawarecki+ > NOTICE - This message and any attachment(s) are for authorized use by the > intended recipient(s) only and may contain privileged or confidential > information. Unless you are an intended recipient, you may not use, copy, > retain, or disclose to anyone any information contained in this message and > any attachment(s). If you are not an intended recipient of this message, > please immediately contact the sender and delete this message and any > attachment(s). > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Max Shinn max at BernsteinForPresident.com www.BernsteinForPresident.com From trieff at greencaremankato.com Thu Feb 7 16:26:45 2013 From: trieff at greencaremankato.com (Thomas Rieff) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 16:26:45 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Samba Shares - Solved??? In-Reply-To: <319410958.187764.1360275788032.JavaMail.root@greencaremankato.com> Message-ID: <2139517052.187957.1360276005736.JavaMail.root@greencaremankato.com> TCLUG, Thank you to those that tried to help with my Samba Share problem. I am using 12.10 Ubuntu Desktop. Finally found a share setting in the Files Browser. Set the share and now it works. Had the smb.conf all set up but would not let me in. Do the desktop Gui's have some sort of dominance over a regular bare server model??? I had tried everything. Tom Thomas Rieff GreenCare 1717 3rd Avenue Mankato, MN 56001 (507) 344-8314 Office (507) 344-8316 Fax (507) 381-0660 Cell -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Feb 7 18:03:26 2013 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 18:03:26 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Samba Shares - Solved??? In-Reply-To: <2139517052.187957.1360276005736.JavaMail.root@greencaremankato.com> References: <2139517052.187957.1360276005736.JavaMail.root@greencaremankato.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Feb 2013, Thomas Rieff wrote: > Thank you to those that tried to help with my Samba Share problem. > I am using 12.10 Ubuntu Desktop. Finally found a share setting in the Files Browser. > Set the share and now it works. > Had the smb.conf all set up but would not let me in. > Do the desktop Gui's have some sort of dominance over a regular bare server model??? > I had tried everything. Are you sure that smbd it is reading your smb.conf file? If the location of smb.conf was changed, it might be reading a different file and not seeing your edits. I just thought of this because looking at the FILES section of "man smbd" on different machines shows different locations for the default smb.conf. Mike From canito at dalan.us Thu Feb 7 13:12:32 2013 From: canito at dalan.us (Saul David Alanis) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 13:12:32 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Recommendations for wiki software In-Reply-To: <4835373F9893BF45BF3AD6612B78939813EAE4BAA6@EXCMS.corporate.datacard.com> References: <4835373F9893BF45BF3AD6612B78939813EAE4BAA6@EXCMS.corporate.datacard.com> Message-ID: <20130207131232.60eec061@arch.free-bsd.us> On Thu, 7 Feb 2013 12:34:14 -0600 Dan Gawarecki wrote: > Hello Fellow TC Linux Users: > I want to set up a wiki my family can use, and eventually extend > it such that it could be used by volunteer/non-profit groups that > I am a member of. Ergo, my first requirement is ease of use for > the end user - which means a WYSIWYG editor: I just cannot > see my wife editing the source to use "codes" - neither of us has > enough time for that option. > > Secondly, I also want to build my Linux knowledge to wean myself off > Microsoft products. If I did want to build the wiki on Windows, my > first choice would be MindTouch's product (have it at work and I am > pretty satisfied with it, *especially* compared to Sharepoint (ugh) > with is corporate standard). I know MindTouch used to have a > "community" website (opengarden.org?) and that Penguins Unbound's > Site is using "MindTouch TCS", but in trying to find something on > MindTouch's Corporate site about any "community" oriented versions is > tough as the target audience is strictly the corporate world. > > This made me wonder if there are other offerings available? A friend > who works at the U said they use DocuWiki, but that doesn't appear to > have a WYSIWIG editor, although the editor does have "shortcut" icons > that would go a long way towards usability - still a WYWIWYG editor > is still top requirement. > > Your advice and input would be appreciated. > > +Dan Gawarecki+ > NOTICE - This message and any attachment(s) are for authorized use by > the intended recipient(s) only and may contain privileged or > confidential information. Unless you are an intended recipient, you > may not use, copy, retain, or disclose to anyone any information > contained in this message and any attachment(s). If you are not an > intended recipient of this message, please immediately contact the > sender and delete this message and any attachment(s). > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > I've set up DokuWiki personally, and someone at work got it running for the office. There is ton of them out there. I think DokuWiki is awesome. From canito at dalan.us Thu Feb 7 13:06:56 2013 From: canito at dalan.us (Saul David Alanis) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 13:06:56 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Samba Shares - Solved??? In-Reply-To: <2139517052.187957.1360276005736.JavaMail.root@greencaremankato.com> References: <319410958.187764.1360275788032.JavaMail.root@greencaremankato.com> <2139517052.187957.1360276005736.JavaMail.root@greencaremankato.com> Message-ID: <20130207130656.1d704a4b@arch.free-bsd.us> On Thu, 7 Feb 2013 16:26:45 -0600 (CST) Thomas Rieff wrote: > TCLUG, > Thank you to those that tried to help with my Samba Share problem. > I am using 12.10 Ubuntu Desktop. Finally found a share setting in the > Files Browser. Set the share and now it works. > Had the smb.conf all set up but would not let me in. > Do the desktop Gui's have some sort of dominance over a regular bare > server model??? I had tried everything. > Tom > > Thomas Rieff > GreenCare > 1717 3rd Avenue > Mankato, MN 56001 > (507) 344-8314 Office > (507) 344-8316 Fax > (507) 381-0660 Cell > Not sure what you mean, but the only reason anyone would use a GUI is for convenience? A side from fluxbox, firefox, and claws GUIs to me are not a necessary element to manage a server. In fact, most people I know simply don't run desktops, and aren't needed on servers. From xcorvis at gmail.com Thu Feb 7 19:35:57 2013 From: xcorvis at gmail.com (Adam Nave) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 19:35:57 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Recommendations for wiki software In-Reply-To: <20130207131232.60eec061@arch.free-bsd.us> References: <4835373F9893BF45BF3AD6612B78939813EAE4BAA6@EXCMS.corporate.datacard.com> <20130207131232.60eec061@arch.free-bsd.us> Message-ID: It doesn't fulfil your "learn more linux" goal, but I think Google Sites is way easier to use as a wiki than most wikis. Here's a great way to find a wiki: http://www.wikimatrix.org/ --Adam On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Saul David Alanis wrote: > On Thu, 7 Feb 2013 12:34:14 -0600 > Dan Gawarecki wrote: > > > Hello Fellow TC Linux Users: > > I want to set up a wiki my family can use, and eventually extend > > it such that it could be used by volunteer/non-profit groups that > > I am a member of. Ergo, my first requirement is ease of use for > > the end user - which means a WYSIWYG editor: I just cannot > > see my wife editing the source to use "codes" - neither of us has > > enough time for that option. > > > > Secondly, I also want to build my Linux knowledge to wean myself off > > Microsoft products. If I did want to build the wiki on Windows, my > > first choice would be MindTouch's product (have it at work and I am > > pretty satisfied with it, *especially* compared to Sharepoint (ugh) > > with is corporate standard). I know MindTouch used to have a > > "community" website (opengarden.org?) and that Penguins Unbound's > > Site is using "MindTouch TCS", but in trying to find something on > > MindTouch's Corporate site about any "community" oriented versions is > > tough as the target audience is strictly the corporate world. > > > > This made me wonder if there are other offerings available? A friend > > who works at the U said they use DocuWiki, but that doesn't appear to > > have a WYSIWIG editor, although the editor does have "shortcut" icons > > that would go a long way towards usability - still a WYWIWYG editor > > is still top requirement. > > > > Your advice and input would be appreciated. > > > > +Dan Gawarecki+ > > NOTICE - This message and any attachment(s) are for authorized use by > > the intended recipient(s) only and may contain privileged or > > confidential information. Unless you are an intended recipient, you > > may not use, copy, retain, or disclose to anyone any information > > contained in this message and any attachment(s). If you are not an > > intended recipient of this message, please immediately contact the > > sender and delete this message and any attachment(s). > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > I've set up DokuWiki personally, and someone at work got it running for > the office. There is ton of them out there. I think DokuWiki is awesome. > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Feb 7 20:24:38 2013 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 20:24:38 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] using VLC with YouTube Message-ID: I've been using Flash Video Downloader add-on to Firefox (on Ubuntu) to download YouTube videos and play them with VLC. They play much better on VLC than they do with Firefox. It isn't just because of buffering because even with good buffering in YouTube on Firefox I get a lot of jerking of the video with higher definition. The nicest thing I downloaded so far was a full version of Baraka (1992) in 1080p HD. It seems to be gone now, probably because of copyright issues, but it looks like some 720p versions are available. Now that Samsara (2012) is out on DVD (it's like Baraka, made by same people), I'm wondering if I can get a nice HD version on the web. I found that YouTube has it in 720p (1280x720) but it cost $4.99. That's not a lot of money, so I took a chance and paid for it. Well, it just doesn't play well on my system at 720p in YouTube/Firefox so I used Flash Video Downloader to download it to my hard drive. That seemed to work until I opened it in VLC -- it shows the right length (1:42:16) and the file is about 1.5 GB, and VLC runs, as if it were playing the movie, but there is no video and no audio. Do any of you know anything about this? I don't know if it's a DRM issue, but that's what I suspect. I just want to watch the movie that I paid for. I don't want to rip them off and I'm not going to distribute copies. Thanks. Mike From admin at lctn.org Thu Feb 7 20:50:13 2013 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2013 20:50:13 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Repo for old distro Message-ID: <511467E5.5070208@lctn.org> I have to set up an old distro to move some files over before upgrading. I am trying to find a working repo for Ubuntu Dapper 6.06 LTS, but not finding what I need. Here are the prerequisites I need "libidn11 curl fetchmail libpcre3 libgmp3c2 libxml2 libstdc++6 openssl perl" Most err out with "no installation candidate, or package requires X and X will not be installed". From gsker at skerbitz.org Thu Feb 7 22:00:21 2013 From: gsker at skerbitz.org (Gerry) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 22:00:21 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Repo for old distro In-Reply-To: <511467E5.5070208@lctn.org> References: <511467E5.5070208@lctn.org> Message-ID: http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/6.06/ http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/ ? On Thu, 7 Feb 2013, Raymond Norton wrote: > I have to set up an old distro to move some files over before upgrading. I am > trying to find a working repo for Ubuntu Dapper 6.06 LTS, but not finding > what I need. > > Here are the prerequisites I need "libidn11 curl fetchmail libpcre3 > libgmp3c2 libxml2 libstdc++6 openssl perl" > > Most err out with "no installation candidate, or package requires X and X > will not be installed". > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Gerry Skerbitz gsker at skerbitz.org From tclug at freakzilla.com Thu Feb 7 23:12:43 2013 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 23:12:43 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] using VLC with YouTube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just for fun, can you try mplayer? I know people swear by VLC but I've NEVER had luck with that thing. Mplayer always worked perfectly for me though. On Thu, 7 Feb 2013, Mike Miller wrote: > I've been using Flash Video Downloader add-on to Firefox (on Ubuntu) to > download YouTube videos and play them with VLC. They play much better on VLC > than they do with Firefox. It isn't just because of buffering because even > with good buffering in YouTube on Firefox I get a lot of jerking of the video > with higher definition. > > The nicest thing I downloaded so far was a full version of Baraka (1992) in > 1080p HD. It seems to be gone now, probably because of copyright issues, but > it looks like some 720p versions are available. > > Now that Samsara (2012) is out on DVD (it's like Baraka, made by same > people), I'm wondering if I can get a nice HD version on the web. I found > that YouTube has it in 720p (1280x720) but it cost $4.99. That's not a lot > of money, so I took a chance and paid for it. Well, it just doesn't play > well on my system at 720p in YouTube/Firefox so I used Flash Video Downloader > to download it to my hard drive. That seemed to work until I opened it in > VLC -- it shows the right length (1:42:16) and the file is about 1.5 GB, and > VLC runs, as if it were playing the movie, but there is no video and no > audio. > > Do any of you know anything about this? I don't know if it's a DRM issue, > but that's what I suspect. I just want to watch the movie that I paid for. > I don't want to rip them off and I'm not going to distribute copies. > > Thanks. > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- From bgilbertson at rrt.net Fri Feb 8 07:28:12 2013 From: bgilbertson at rrt.net (Robert Gilbertson) Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2013 07:28:12 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] using VLC with YouTube Message-ID: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> I have mixed results with Flash files also. I use a Firefox addon called Download Helper. As part of download it allows converting flv to another format like mp4 or wmv that may work better in the video player. On Thursday 07/02/2013 at 11:13 pm, Yaron wrote: > Just for fun, can you try mplayer? I know people swear by VLC but I've > NEVER had luck with that thing. Mplayer always worked perfectly for me > though. > > On Thu, 7 Feb 2013, Mike Miller wrote: > >> >> I've been using Flash Video Downloader add-on to Firefox (on Ubuntu) >> to >> download YouTube videos and play them with VLC. They play much better >> on VLC >> than they do with Firefox. It isn't just because of buffering because >> even >> with good buffering in YouTube on Firefox I get a lot of jerking of >> the video >> with higher definition. >> >> The nicest thing I downloaded so far was a full version of Baraka >> (1992) in >> 1080p HD. It seems to be gone now, probably because of copyright >> issues, but >> it looks like some 720p versions are available. >> >> Now that Samsara (2012) is out on DVD (it's like Baraka, made by same >> people), I'm wondering if I can get a nice HD version on the web. I >> found >> that YouTube has it in 720p (1280x720) but it cost $4.99. That's not >> a lot >> of money, so I took a chance and paid for it. Well, it just doesn't >> play >> well on my system at 720p in YouTube/Firefox so I used Flash Video >> Downloader >> to download it to my hard drive. That seemed to work until I opened >> it in >> VLC -- it shows the right length (1:42:16) and the file is about 1.5 >> GB, and >> VLC runs, as if it were playing the movie, but there is no video and >> no >> audio. >> >> Do any of you know anything about this? I don't know if it's a DRM >> issue, >> but that's what I suspect. I just want to watch the movie that I paid >> for. >> I don't want to rip them off and I'm not going to distribute copies. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Mike >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ubusum at ymail.com Fri Feb 8 09:48:25 2013 From: ubusum at ymail.com (Ubu Sumner) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 07:48:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> References: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> Message-ID: <1360338505.45055.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I don't expect a discussion of this here, since it's stretching the TCLUG mission perhaps, but I'm hoping some of you might appreciate a gentle suggestion to put your opinion into an email, whatever that might be. The horse may be out of the barn for Klobuchar on this issue, but sometimes it helps anyway to write a thoughtful letter. If you agree with her you can send her a thank you note. ;) Contact links to your Congress people: http://www.usayfoundation.org/states/minnesota Yesterday in the Star: http://www.startribune.com/opinion/letters/189453241.html "....Minnesota?Sen. Amy Klobuchar's legislation?to increase H-1B visas and green card quotas is welcome and will help the U.S. economy. The jobs that are offered will only be located where there are not sufficient qualified local citizens...." Today in the New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/08/opinion/americas-genius-glut.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130208 "....Bringing over more ? there are already 500,000 workers on H-1B visas ? would obviously darken job prospects for America?s struggling young scientists and engineers. But it would also hurt our efforts to produce more: if the message to American students is, ?Don?t bother working hard for a high-tech degree, because we can import someone to do the job for less,? we could do significant long-term damage to the high-tech educational system we value so dearly. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Fri Feb 8 10:12:33 2013 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2013 10:12:33 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: <1360338505.45055.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> <1360338505.45055.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <511523F1.4090908@me.com> Honestly, immigration here is a joke as it is... especially when it comes down to worker visas. Not trying to go political - it's just a disaster and no one person or group can really, truly, fix it. On 2/8/2013 9:48 AM, Ubu Sumner wrote: > I don't expect a discussion of this here, since it's stretching the > TCLUG mission perhaps, but I'm hoping some of you might appreciate a > gentle suggestion to put your opinion into an email, whatever that > might be. The horse may be out of the barn for Klobuchar on this > issue, but sometimes it helps anyway to write a thoughtful letter. If > you agree with her you can send her a thank you note. ;) > > Contact links to your Congress people: > http://www.usayfoundation.org/states/minnesota > > Yesterday in the Star: > > http://www.startribune.com/opinion/letters/189453241.html > > "....Minnesota _Sen. Amy Klobuchar's legislation_ > to > increase H-1B visas and green card quotas is welcome and will help the > U.S. economy. The jobs that are offered will only be located where > there are not sufficient qualified local citizens...." > > Today in the New York Times: > > http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/08/opinion/americas-genius-glut.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130208 > > "....Bringing over more --- there are already 500,000 workers on H-1B > visas --- would obviously darken job prospects for America's > struggling young scientists and engineers. But it would also hurt our > efforts to produce more: if the message to American students is, > "Don't bother working hard for a high-tech degree, because we can > import someone to do the job for less," we could do significant > long-term damage to the high-tech educational system we value so dearly. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.nelsen at slingshot-hci.com Fri Feb 8 10:08:56 2013 From: david.nelsen at slingshot-hci.com (David Nelsen) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 10:08:56 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: <1360338505.45055.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> <1360338505.45055.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I think this is a good topic to discuss. I am afraid I do not have enough information to have an educated opinion. I am a technology small business owner and I am struggling with finding specific skills. Ubu what is your position. BTW- The main motivation of joinging TCLUG is to develop relationships and eventually recruit talent. David Nelsen, BoTG Healthcare Technical Analyst Slingshot Healthcare Informatics Office 651.472.5678 Skype: slingshot.hci On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Ubu Sumner wrote: > I don't expect a discussion of this here, since it's stretching the TCLUG > mission perhaps, but I'm hoping some of you might appreciate a gentle > suggestion to put your opinion into an email, whatever that might be. The > horse may be out of the barn for Klobuchar on this issue, but sometimes it > helps anyway to write a thoughtful letter. If you agree with her you can > send her a thank you note. ;) > > Contact links to your Congress people: > http://www.usayfoundation.org/states/minnesota > > Yesterday in the Star: > > http://www.startribune.com/opinion/letters/189453241.html > > "....Minnesota *Sen. Amy Klobuchar's legislation* to > increase H-1B visas and green card quotas is welcome and will help the U.S. > economy. The jobs that are offered will only be located where there are not > sufficient qualified local citizens...." > > Today in the New York Times: > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/08/opinion/americas-genius-glut.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130208 > > "....Bringing over more ? there are already 500,000 workers on H-1B visas > ? would obviously darken job prospects for America?s struggling young > scientists and engineers. But it would also hurt our efforts to produce > more: if the message to American students is, ?Don?t bother working hard > for a high-tech degree, because we can import someone to do the job for > less,? we could do significant long-term damage to the high-tech > educational system we value so dearly. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at lctn.org Fri Feb 8 10:48:39 2013 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2013 10:48:39 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Repo for old distro In-Reply-To: References: <511467E5.5070208@lctn.org> Message-ID: <51152C67.9050506@lctn.org> I added those to my sources.list before posting this and updated, but still could not install most of the packages I listed below. On 02/07/2013 10:00 PM, Gerry wrote: > http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/6.06/ > http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/ > > ? > > On Thu, 7 Feb 2013, Raymond Norton wrote: > >> I have to set up an old distro to move some files over before >> upgrading. I am trying to find a working repo for Ubuntu Dapper 6.06 >> LTS, but not finding what I need. >> >> Here are the prerequisites I need "libidn11 curl fetchmail libpcre3 >> libgmp3c2 libxml2 libstdc++6 openssl perl" >> >> Most err out with "no installation candidate, or package requires X >> and X will not be installed". >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > From joel.longanecker at gmail.com Fri Feb 8 11:28:13 2013 From: joel.longanecker at gmail.com (Joel Longanecker) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 11:28:13 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] My personal project that I've been working on. Want to know what local area Linux users think about it, seeking feedback. Message-ID: Hello fellow area Linux users. This is my first root post on this mailing list, of which I have been a subscriber for a few months, so I hope I get this right. The last few months I've been developing a tool for using Mono at a lower level than it has been in the past. The general use case is to simply put it, is developing kiosk applications with Mono, and deploying them to a minimal Linux system. Right now, I'm using SDL as an interface to communicate with the frame buffer. (At some point, I would like to go lower and talk to the frame buffer and devices exposed in /dev/ without using SDL) The key component to this is exposing the frame-buffer as a System.Drawing.Graphics graphics context. (not using X11) The sample program I currently have written is a basic clock showing some simple effects (Drawing text, arcs, and using transparency and linear gradients) A screenshot of the sample application can be seen running under windows here: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-rA2-96ysTLA/URB7-luv4lI/AAAAAAAABxg/8BXEABOsrDI/s656/Untitled.png The project is located here, and is published under the BSD license. https://github.com/longjoel/Sunfish Here are some of the potential use cases I see potentially being applicable. * Information Kiosk (weather, status dashboard, rss feed reader) * Car-puting * Industrial workstation (Zebra printers, Barcode scanners, RFID systems, GPIB Instrument communication) Thanks for taking the time to hear me out on this and give some feedback. Thanks! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nmarkon at gmail.com Fri Feb 8 11:30:40 2013 From: nmarkon at gmail.com (Noah Markon) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 11:30:40 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] My personal project that I've been working on. Want to know what local area Linux users think about it, seeking feedback. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm curious, why Mono? On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11:28 AM, Joel Longanecker < joel.longanecker at gmail.com> wrote: > Hello fellow area Linux users. > > This is my first root post on this mailing list, of which I have been a > subscriber for a few months, so I hope I get this right. > > > The last few months I've been developing a tool for using Mono at a lower > level than it has been in the past. The general use case is to simply put > it, is developing kiosk applications with Mono, and deploying them to a > minimal Linux system. > Right now, I'm using SDL as an interface to communicate with the frame > buffer. (At some point, I would like to go lower and talk to the frame > buffer and devices exposed in /dev/ without using SDL) The key component to > this is exposing the frame-buffer as a System.Drawing.Graphics graphics > context. (not using X11) > > The sample program I currently have written is a basic clock showing some > simple effects (Drawing text, arcs, and using transparency and linear > gradients) A screenshot of the sample application can be seen running under > windows here: > https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-rA2-96ysTLA/URB7-luv4lI/AAAAAAAABxg/8BXEABOsrDI/s656/Untitled.png > > The project is located here, and is published under the BSD license. > https://github.com/longjoel/Sunfish > > Here are some of the potential use cases I see potentially being > applicable. > > * Information Kiosk (weather, status dashboard, rss feed reader) > * Car-puting > * Industrial workstation (Zebra printers, Barcode scanners, RFID systems, > GPIB Instrument communication) > > Thanks for taking the time to hear me out on this and give some feedback. > > Thanks! > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tompoe at meltel.net Fri Feb 8 11:34:42 2013 From: tompoe at meltel.net (Tom Poe) Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2013 11:34:42 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: References: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> <1360338505.45055.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <51153732.5070305@meltel.net> If it is true that employers do not have to advertise positions available, prior to bringing in H1-B visa workers, then my position on this issue must remain opposed to such nonsense. How many programmers, technology qualified individuals in the U.S. are unable to relocate with employer assistance? :) Tom On 02/08/2013 10:08 AM, David Nelsen wrote: > I think this is a good topic to discuss. I am afraid I do not have > enough information to have an educated opinion. I am a technology > small business owner and I am struggling with finding specific skills. > Ubu what is your position. BTW- The main motivation of joinging TCLUG > is to develop relationships and eventually recruit talent. > > > David Nelsen, BoTG > Healthcare Technical Analyst > Slingshot Healthcare Informatics > Office 651.472.5678 > Skype: slingshot.hci > > > > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Ubu Sumner > wrote: > > I don't expect a discussion of this here, since it's stretching > the TCLUG mission perhaps, but I'm hoping some of you might > appreciate a gentle suggestion to put your opinion into an email, > whatever that might be. The horse may be out of the barn for > Klobuchar on this issue, but sometimes it helps anyway to write a > thoughtful letter. If you agree with her you can send her a thank > you note. ;) > > Contact links to your Congress people: > http://www.usayfoundation.org/states/minnesota > > Yesterday in the Star: > > http://www.startribune.com/opinion/letters/189453241.html > > "....Minnesota _Sen. Amy Klobuchar's legislation_ > to > increase H-1B visas and green card quotas is welcome and will help > the U.S. economy. The jobs that are offered will only be located > where there are not sufficient qualified local citizens...." > > Today in the New York Times: > > http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/08/opinion/americas-genius-glut.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130208 > > "....Bringing over more --- there are already 500,000 workers on > H-1B visas --- would obviously darken job prospects for America's > struggling young scientists and engineers. But it would also hurt > our efforts to produce more: if the message to American students > is, "Don't bother working hard for a high-tech degree, because we > can import someone to do the job for less," we could do > significant long-term damage to the high-tech educational system > we value so dearly. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joel.longanecker at gmail.com Fri Feb 8 11:40:18 2013 From: joel.longanecker at gmail.com (Joel Longanecker) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 11:40:18 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] My personal project that I've been working on. Want to know what local area Linux users think about it, seeking feedback. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Because C# is hard to beat as an applications language. The generics are easy to use. No forced type checking. Unicode strings and a decent string library right off the bat. Under the right conditions, I can run the same binary under windows and Linux without having to recompile, and I like that dynamic objects are completely optional, not forced. Mono also has one of the most comprehensive core libraries available. In my mind, there are more reasons to use Mono than there are reasons not to use it. On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Noah Markon wrote: > I'm curious, why Mono? > > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11:28 AM, Joel Longanecker < > joel.longanecker at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hello fellow area Linux users. >> >> This is my first root post on this mailing list, of which I have been a >> subscriber for a few months, so I hope I get this right. >> >> >> The last few months I've been developing a tool for using Mono at a lower >> level than it has been in the past. The general use case is to simply put >> it, is developing kiosk applications with Mono, and deploying them to a >> minimal Linux system. >> Right now, I'm using SDL as an interface to communicate with the frame >> buffer. (At some point, I would like to go lower and talk to the frame >> buffer and devices exposed in /dev/ without using SDL) The key component to >> this is exposing the frame-buffer as a System.Drawing.Graphics graphics >> context. (not using X11) >> >> The sample program I currently have written is a basic clock showing some >> simple effects (Drawing text, arcs, and using transparency and linear >> gradients) A screenshot of the sample application can be seen running under >> windows here: >> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-rA2-96ysTLA/URB7-luv4lI/AAAAAAAABxg/8BXEABOsrDI/s656/Untitled.png >> >> The project is located here, and is published under the BSD license. >> https://github.com/longjoel/Sunfish >> >> Here are some of the potential use cases I see potentially being >> applicable. >> >> * Information Kiosk (weather, status dashboard, rss feed reader) >> * Car-puting >> * Industrial workstation (Zebra printers, Barcode scanners, RFID systems, >> GPIB Instrument communication) >> >> Thanks for taking the time to hear me out on this and give some feedback. >> >> Thanks! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From florin at iucha.net Fri Feb 8 13:21:32 2013 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 13:21:32 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: <1360338505.45055.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> <1360338505.45055.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20130208192132.GB31093@signbit.net> On Fri, Feb 08, 2013 at 07:48:25AM -0800, Ubu Sumner wrote: > "....Minnesota?Sen. Amy Klobuchar's legislation?to increase H-1B > visas and green card quotas is welcome and will help the U.S. > economy. The jobs that are offered will only be located where there > are not sufficient qualified local citizens...." Businesses will go whether the costs are lower, so they will either lower costs here or go to China, India, Vietnam in search for cheaper workforce. The same force propels people to migrate wherever more resources (or Maslow's "needs") are available for them and their families. > Today in the New York Times: > > http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/08/opinion/americas-genius-glut.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130208 > > "....Bringing over more ? there are already 500,000 workers on > H-1B visas ? would obviously darken job prospects for America?s > struggling young scientists and engineers. But it would also hurt > our efforts to produce more: if the message to American students is, > ?Don?t bother working hard for a high-tech degree, because we can > import someone to do the job for less,? we could do significant > long-term damage to the high-tech educational system we value so > dearly. Those scientists have to compete in the global talent pool anyway. Best, florin -- Beware of software written by optimists! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From eng at pinenet.com Fri Feb 8 12:30:32 2013 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2013 12:30:32 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] My personal project that I've been working on. Want to know what local area Linux users think about it, seeking feedback. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51154448.9050809@pinenet.com> Very nice. Several years ago when the vesa2 directly addressable framebuffer first became available I made a similar effort with FreePascal. I didn't do anything close to as nice as your screenshot. But it was fun constructing a screen array and writing it to the /dev/fb0. I remember Thomas Dickey, the great maintainer of NCurses, lynx, xterm, and other text applications, surprised by framebuffer capabilities. I've never looked at SDL, but I think there are other framebuffer windowing toolkits like it. Another fun thing on the console is to write control characters (man console_codes) to the virtual terminal, which is all NCurses really does. I won't encourage FreePascal, but I like it because I can read it. C variants always looked like chicken scratches to me. With FreePascal they import headers from C libraries to use a lot of existing code. FreePascal has a big sister, Ada. I do think it is a good idea to find alternatives to X for uses like you describe. My recent opensuse 12.2 install removed a lot of non-plug and play X support. Nobody can figure out how to use a serial port mouse anymore, among many other changes. Keep us posted. Joel Longanecker wrote: > Because C# is hard to beat as an applications language. > > The generics are easy to use. No forced type checking. Unicode strings and > a decent string library right off the bat. Under the right conditions, I > can run the same binary under windows and Linux without having to > recompile, and I like that dynamic objects are completely optional, not > forced. > > Mono also has one of the most comprehensive core libraries available. > > In my mind, there are more reasons to use Mono than there are reasons not > to use it. > > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Noah Markon wrote: > >> I'm curious, why Mono? >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11:28 AM, Joel Longanecker< >> joel.longanecker at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hello fellow area Linux users. >>> >>> This is my first root post on this mailing list, of which I have been a >>> subscriber for a few months, so I hope I get this right. >>> >>> >>> The last few months I've been developing a tool for using Mono at a lower >>> level than it has been in the past. The general use case is to simply put >>> it, is developing kiosk applications with Mono, and deploying them to a >>> minimal Linux system. >>> Right now, I'm using SDL as an interface to communicate with the frame >>> buffer. (At some point, I would like to go lower and talk to the frame >>> buffer and devices exposed in /dev/ without using SDL) The key component to >>> this is exposing the frame-buffer as a System.Drawing.Graphics graphics >>> context. (not using X11) >>> >>> The sample program I currently have written is a basic clock showing some >>> simple effects (Drawing text, arcs, and using transparency and linear >>> gradients) A screenshot of the sample application can be seen running under >>> windows here: >>> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-rA2-96ysTLA/URB7-luv4lI/AAAAAAAABxg/8BXEABOsrDI/s656/Untitled.png >>> >>> The project is located here, and is published under the BSD license. >>> https://github.com/longjoel/Sunfish >>> >>> Here are some of the potential use cases I see potentially being >>> applicable. >>> >>> * Information Kiosk (weather, status dashboard, rss feed reader) >>> * Car-puting >>> * Industrial workstation (Zebra printers, Barcode scanners, RFID systems, >>> GPIB Instrument communication) >>> >>> Thanks for taking the time to hear me out on this and give some feedback. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From joel.longanecker at gmail.com Fri Feb 8 13:29:28 2013 From: joel.longanecker at gmail.com (Joel Longanecker) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 13:29:28 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] My personal project that I've been working on. Want to know what local area Linux users think about it, seeking feedback. In-Reply-To: <51154448.9050809@pinenet.com> References: <51154448.9050809@pinenet.com> Message-ID: Thanks! If I have free time this weekend, I want to try and run the clock demo on my raspberry pi. Is there any specific demonstrations that anybody would like to see me try and put together using this? On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 12:30 PM, Rick Engebretson wrote: > Very nice. > > Several years ago when the vesa2 directly addressable framebuffer first > became available I made a similar effort with FreePascal. I didn't do > anything close to as nice as your screenshot. But it was fun constructing a > screen array and writing it to the /dev/fb0. I remember Thomas Dickey, the > great maintainer of NCurses, lynx, xterm, and other text applications, > surprised by framebuffer capabilities. > > I've never looked at SDL, but I think there are other framebuffer > windowing toolkits like it. > > Another fun thing on the console is to write control characters (man > console_codes) to the virtual terminal, which is all NCurses really does. > > I won't encourage FreePascal, but I like it because I can read it. C > variants always looked like chicken scratches to me. With FreePascal they > import headers from C libraries to use a lot of existing code. FreePascal > has a big sister, Ada. > > I do think it is a good idea to find alternatives to X for uses like you > describe. My recent opensuse 12.2 install removed a lot of non-plug and > play X support. Nobody can figure out how to use a serial port mouse > anymore, among many other changes. > > Keep us posted. > > > Joel Longanecker wrote: > >> Because C# is hard to beat as an applications language. >> >> The generics are easy to use. No forced type checking. Unicode strings and >> a decent string library right off the bat. Under the right conditions, I >> can run the same binary under windows and Linux without having to >> recompile, and I like that dynamic objects are completely optional, not >> forced. >> >> Mono also has one of the most comprehensive core libraries available. >> >> In my mind, there are more reasons to use Mono than there are reasons not >> to use it. >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Noah Markon wrote: >> >> I'm curious, why Mono? >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11:28 AM, Joel Longanecker< >>> joel.longanecker at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hello fellow area Linux users. >>>> >>>> This is my first root post on this mailing list, of which I have been a >>>> subscriber for a few months, so I hope I get this right. >>>> >>>> >>>> The last few months I've been developing a tool for using Mono at a >>>> lower >>>> level than it has been in the past. The general use case is to simply >>>> put >>>> it, is developing kiosk applications with Mono, and deploying them to a >>>> minimal Linux system. >>>> Right now, I'm using SDL as an interface to communicate with the frame >>>> buffer. (At some point, I would like to go lower and talk to the frame >>>> buffer and devices exposed in /dev/ without using SDL) The key >>>> component to >>>> this is exposing the frame-buffer as a System.Drawing.Graphics graphics >>>> context. (not using X11) >>>> >>>> The sample program I currently have written is a basic clock showing >>>> some >>>> simple effects (Drawing text, arcs, and using transparency and linear >>>> gradients) A screenshot of the sample application can be seen running >>>> under >>>> windows here: >>>> https://lh3.googleusercontent.**com/-rA2-96ysTLA/URB7-luv4lI/** >>>> AAAAAAAABxg/8BXEABOsrDI/s656/**Untitled.png >>>> >>>> The project is located here, and is published under the BSD license. >>>> https://github.com/longjoel/**Sunfish >>>> >>>> Here are some of the potential use cases I see potentially being >>>> applicable. >>>> >>>> * Information Kiosk (weather, status dashboard, rss feed reader) >>>> * Car-puting >>>> * Industrial workstation (Zebra printers, Barcode scanners, RFID >>>> systems, >>>> GPIB Instrument communication) >>>> >>>> Thanks for taking the time to hear me out on this and give some >>>> feedback. >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > ______________________________**_________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From droidjd at gmail.com Fri Feb 8 13:36:52 2013 From: droidjd at gmail.com (Andrew Dahl) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 13:36:52 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: <20130208192132.GB31093@signbit.net> References: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> <1360338505.45055.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <20130208192132.GB31093@signbit.net> Message-ID: Interesting note regarding companies hiring overseas. My brother-in-law's employer has started to shift from hiring people in India to hiring people here, citing the ROI as the reason. Regardless, I can see both sides of the coin on this issue and will be keeping my opinions to myself. :-) -Andrew On Feb 8, 2013 1:21 PM, "Florin Iucha" wrote: > On Fri, Feb 08, 2013 at 07:48:25AM -0800, Ubu Sumner wrote: > > "....Minnesota Sen. Amy Klobuchar's legislation to increase H-1B > > visas and green card quotas is welcome and will help the U.S. > > economy. The jobs that are offered will only be located where there > > are not sufficient qualified local citizens...." > > Businesses will go whether the costs are lower, so they will either > lower costs here or go to China, India, Vietnam in search for cheaper > workforce. > > The same force propels people to migrate wherever more resources (or > Maslow's "needs") are available for them and their families. > > > Today in the New York Times: > > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/08/opinion/americas-genius-glut.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130208 > > > > "....Bringing over more ? there are already 500,000 workers on > > H-1B visas ? would obviously darken job prospects for America?s > > struggling young scientists and engineers. But it would also hurt > > our efforts to produce more: if the message to American students is, > > ?Don?t bother working hard for a high-tech degree, because we can > > import someone to do the job for less,? we could do significant > > long-term damage to the high-tech educational system we value so > > dearly. > > Those scientists have to compete in the global talent pool anyway. > > Best, > florin > > -- > Beware of software written by optimists! > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEARECAAYFAlEVUDwACgkQTnmMTLK0CAiBQwCfZ2GN9kd5tigoK6tz+wznpHpf > bEYAniTTunN+VhXKJzc0dTln2GcC8WvW > =oy+n > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at lctn.org Fri Feb 8 15:01:19 2013 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2013 15:01:19 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Repo for old distro In-Reply-To: References: <511467E5.5070208@lctn.org> <51152C67.9050506@lctn.org> Message-ID: <5115679F.5090707@lctn.org> That worked!! I did a search and replace on my sources.list, so it must have had a bad path... Anyway... all the prerequisites installed. Thank you On 02/08/2013 02:42 PM, Gerry wrote: > Don't know if you're still in need of this, but I installed dapper > from that repo to a virutal machine and updated it and installed all > those packages. > > gsker at ubuntu:~$ dpkg -l | egrep > 'libidn11|curl|fetchmail|libpcre3|libgmp3c2|libxml2|libstdc++6|openssl' > ii curl > 7.15.1-1ubuntu3.2 Get a file from an > HTTP, HTTPS, FTP or GOPHE > ii fetchmail > 6.3.2-2ubuntu2.3 SSL enabled POP3, > APOP, IMAP mail gatherer/f > ii libcurl3 > 7.15.1-1ubuntu3.2 Multi-protocol > file transfer library > ii libcurl3-gnutls > 7.15.1-1ubuntu3.2 Multi-protocol > file transfer library > ii libgmp3c2 > 4.1.4-11ubuntu2 Multiprecision > arithmetic library > ii libidn11 > 0.5.18-1 GNU libidn > library, implementation of IETF I > ii libpcre3 > 7.4-0ubuntu0.6.06.3 Perl 5 Compatible > Regular Expression Library > ii libxml2 > 2.6.24.dfsg-1ubuntu1.6 GNOME XML library > ii libxml2-utils > 2.6.24.dfsg-1ubuntu1.6 XML utilities > ii libxmlsec1-openssl > 1.2.9-1ubuntu1 Openssl engine for > the XML security library > ii openssl > 0.9.8a-7ubuntu0.14 Secure Socket > Layer (SSL) binary and related > ii python-libxml2 > 2.6.24.dfsg-1ubuntu1.6 Python bindings > for the GNOME XML library > ii python-pyopenssl > 0.6-2ubuntu3 Python wrapper > around the OpenSSL library (d > ii python2.4-libxml2 > 2.6.24.dfsg-1ubuntu1.6 Python 2.4 > bindings for the GNOME XML librar > ii python2.4-pycurl > 7.15.0-1ubuntu1 Python bindings to > libcurl > ii python2.4-pyopenssl > 0.6-2ubuntu3 Python wrapper > around the OpenSSL library, e > > Distributor ID: Ubuntu > Description: Ubuntu 6.06.2 LTS > Release: 6.06 > Codename: dapper > Ubuntu 6.06.2 LTS \n \l > > If you've already solved it, it's been an interesting path to take. > If you haven't let me know what of this might be helpful. > > Gerry > P.S. It did fail the first time I tried. It just stopped running in > the middle of the install. > > Oh. Attached is the sources.list file from the dapper machine. > > > On Fri, 8 Feb 2013, Raymond Norton wrote: > >> I added those to my sources.list before posting this and updated, but >> still could not install most of the packages I listed below. >> >> >> On 02/07/2013 10:00 PM, Gerry wrote: >>> http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/6.06/ >>> http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/ >>> >>> ? >>> >>> On Thu, 7 Feb 2013, Raymond Norton wrote: >>> >>>> I have to set up an old distro to move some files over before >>>> upgrading. I am trying to find a working repo for Ubuntu Dapper >>>> 6.06 LTS, but not finding what I need. >>>> >>>> Here are the prerequisites I need "libidn11 curl fetchmail >>>> libpcre3 libgmp3c2 libxml2 libstdc++6 openssl perl" >>>> >>>> Most err out with "no installation candidate, or package requires X >>>> and X will not be installed". > From eng at pinenet.com Fri Feb 8 14:43:59 2013 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2013 14:43:59 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] My personal project that I've been working on. Want to know what local area Linux users think about it, seeking feedback. In-Reply-To: References: <51154448.9050809@pinenet.com> Message-ID: <5115638F.9010003@pinenet.com> And you are working on Raspberry Pi, too. Very cool. Again, please keep us posted. Joel Longanecker wrote: > Thanks! > > If I have free time this weekend, I want to try and run the clock demo on > my raspberry pi. > > Is there any specific demonstrations that anybody would like to see me try > and put together using this? > > > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 12:30 PM, Rick Engebretson wrote: > >> Very nice. >> >> Several years ago when the vesa2 directly addressable framebuffer first >> became available I made a similar effort with FreePascal. I didn't do >> anything close to as nice as your screenshot. But it was fun constructing a >> screen array and writing it to the /dev/fb0. I remember Thomas Dickey, the >> great maintainer of NCurses, lynx, xterm, and other text applications, >> surprised by framebuffer capabilities. >> >> I've never looked at SDL, but I think there are other framebuffer >> windowing toolkits like it. >> >> Another fun thing on the console is to write control characters (man >> console_codes) to the virtual terminal, which is all NCurses really does. >> >> I won't encourage FreePascal, but I like it because I can read it. C >> variants always looked like chicken scratches to me. With FreePascal they >> import headers from C libraries to use a lot of existing code. FreePascal >> has a big sister, Ada. >> >> I do think it is a good idea to find alternatives to X for uses like you >> describe. My recent opensuse 12.2 install removed a lot of non-plug and >> play X support. Nobody can figure out how to use a serial port mouse >> anymore, among many other changes. >> >> Keep us posted. >> >> >> Joel Longanecker wrote: >> >>> Because C# is hard to beat as an applications language. >>> >>> The generics are easy to use. No forced type checking. Unicode strings and >>> a decent string library right off the bat. Under the right conditions, I >>> can run the same binary under windows and Linux without having to >>> recompile, and I like that dynamic objects are completely optional, not >>> forced. >>> >>> Mono also has one of the most comprehensive core libraries available. >>> >>> In my mind, there are more reasons to use Mono than there are reasons not >>> to use it. >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Noah Markon wrote: >>> >>> I'm curious, why Mono? >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11:28 AM, Joel Longanecker< >>>> joel.longanecker at gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello fellow area Linux users. >>>>> >>>>> This is my first root post on this mailing list, of which I have been a >>>>> subscriber for a few months, so I hope I get this right. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The last few months I've been developing a tool for using Mono at a >>>>> lower >>>>> level than it has been in the past. The general use case is to simply >>>>> put >>>>> it, is developing kiosk applications with Mono, and deploying them to a >>>>> minimal Linux system. >>>>> Right now, I'm using SDL as an interface to communicate with the frame >>>>> buffer. (At some point, I would like to go lower and talk to the frame >>>>> buffer and devices exposed in /dev/ without using SDL) The key >>>>> component to >>>>> this is exposing the frame-buffer as a System.Drawing.Graphics graphics >>>>> context. (not using X11) >>>>> >>>>> The sample program I currently have written is a basic clock showing >>>>> some >>>>> simple effects (Drawing text, arcs, and using transparency and linear >>>>> gradients) A screenshot of the sample application can be seen running >>>>> under >>>>> windows here: >>>>> https://lh3.googleusercontent.**com/-rA2-96ysTLA/URB7-luv4lI/** >>>>> AAAAAAAABxg/8BXEABOsrDI/s656/**Untitled.png >>>>> >>>>> The project is located here, and is published under the BSD license. >>>>> https://github.com/longjoel/**Sunfish >>>>> >>>>> Here are some of the potential use cases I see potentially being >>>>> applicable. >>>>> >>>>> * Information Kiosk (weather, status dashboard, rss feed reader) >>>>> * Car-puting >>>>> * Industrial workstation (Zebra printers, Barcode scanners, RFID >>>>> systems, >>>>> GPIB Instrument communication) >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for taking the time to hear me out on this and give some >>>>> feedback. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks! >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > From gsker at skerbitz.org Fri Feb 8 16:05:53 2013 From: gsker at skerbitz.org (Gerry) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 16:05:53 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Repo for old distro In-Reply-To: <5115679F.5090707@lctn.org> References: <511467E5.5070208@lctn.org> <51152C67.9050506@lctn.org> <5115679F.5090707@lctn.org> Message-ID: That is just excellent! Glad to be of service. On Fri, 8 Feb 2013, Raymond Norton wrote: > That worked!! > > I did a search and replace on my sources.list, so it must have had a bad > path... > > > Anyway... all the prerequisites installed. > > > Thank you > > On 02/08/2013 02:42 PM, Gerry wrote: >> Don't know if you're still in need of this, but I installed dapper from >> that repo to a virutal machine and updated it and installed all those >> packages. >> >> gsker at ubuntu:~$ dpkg -l | egrep >> 'libidn11|curl|fetchmail|libpcre3|libgmp3c2|libxml2|libstdc++6|openssl' >> ii curl 7.15.1-1ubuntu3.2 >> Get a file from an HTTP, HTTPS, FTP or GOPHE >> ii fetchmail 6.3.2-2ubuntu2.3 >> SSL enabled POP3, APOP, IMAP mail gatherer/f >> ii libcurl3 7.15.1-1ubuntu3.2 >> Multi-protocol file transfer library >> ii libcurl3-gnutls 7.15.1-1ubuntu3.2 >> Multi-protocol file transfer library >> ii libgmp3c2 4.1.4-11ubuntu2 >> Multiprecision arithmetic library >> ii libidn11 0.5.18-1 >> GNU libidn library, implementation of IETF I >> ii libpcre3 7.4-0ubuntu0.6.06.3 >> Perl 5 Compatible Regular Expression Library >> ii libxml2 2.6.24.dfsg-1ubuntu1.6 >> GNOME XML library >> ii libxml2-utils 2.6.24.dfsg-1ubuntu1.6 >> XML utilities >> ii libxmlsec1-openssl 1.2.9-1ubuntu1 >> Openssl engine for the XML security library >> ii openssl 0.9.8a-7ubuntu0.14 >> Secure Socket Layer (SSL) binary and related >> ii python-libxml2 2.6.24.dfsg-1ubuntu1.6 >> Python bindings for the GNOME XML library >> ii python-pyopenssl 0.6-2ubuntu3 >> Python wrapper around the OpenSSL library (d >> ii python2.4-libxml2 2.6.24.dfsg-1ubuntu1.6 >> Python 2.4 bindings for the GNOME XML librar >> ii python2.4-pycurl 7.15.0-1ubuntu1 >> Python bindings to libcurl >> ii python2.4-pyopenssl 0.6-2ubuntu3 >> Python wrapper around the OpenSSL library, e >> >> Distributor ID: Ubuntu >> Description: Ubuntu 6.06.2 LTS >> Release: 6.06 >> Codename: dapper >> Ubuntu 6.06.2 LTS \n \l >> >> If you've already solved it, it's been an interesting path to take. >> If you haven't let me know what of this might be helpful. >> >> Gerry >> P.S. It did fail the first time I tried. It just stopped running in the >> middle of the install. >> >> Oh. Attached is the sources.list file from the dapper machine. >> >> >> On Fri, 8 Feb 2013, Raymond Norton wrote: >> >>> I added those to my sources.list before posting this and updated, but >>> still could not install most of the packages I listed below. >>> >>> >>> On 02/07/2013 10:00 PM, Gerry wrote: >>>> http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/6.06/ >>>> http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/ >>>> >>>> ? >>>> >>>> On Thu, 7 Feb 2013, Raymond Norton wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have to set up an old distro to move some files over before upgrading. >>>>> I am trying to find a working repo for Ubuntu Dapper 6.06 LTS, but not >>>>> finding what I need. >>>>> >>>>> Here are the prerequisites I need "libidn11 curl fetchmail libpcre3 >>>>> libgmp3c2 libxml2 libstdc++6 openssl perl" >>>>> >>>>> Most err out with "no installation candidate, or package requires X and >>>>> X will not be installed". >> > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Gerry Skerbitz gsker at skerbitz.org From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri Feb 8 16:30:39 2013 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 16:30:39 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] using VLC with YouTube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the tip on mplayer. It didn't work, either. I found later that I had a message from YouTube telling me that I had 48 hours to watch the movie. But after restarting my computer, when I go back to YouTube, it doesn't seem to remember that I paid $5. Oh well. If I can get the downloaded file to work, that would solve my problem. It's funny that I can play the downloaded 1080p HD video of Baraka, but the .mov videos made by my Canon camera won't play - they play slowly in mplayer and they just hang in VLC, but the audio plays normally in both. Mplayer tells me that my system is too slow. This is all I've got: processor : 0 vendor_id : AuthenticAMD cpu family : 15 model : 79 model name : AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3800+ stepping : 2 cpu MHz : 2411.275 cache size : 512 KB fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 1 wp : yes flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 syscall nx mmxext fxsr_opt rdtscp lm 3dnowext 3dnow up rep_good extd_apicid pni cx16 lahf_lm svm extapic cr8_legacy bogomips : 4822.55 TLB size : 1024 4K pages clflush size : 64 cache_alignment : 64 address sizes : 40 bits physical, 48 bits virtual power management: ts fid vid ttp tm stc It's not a big deal for me to replace that, so I guess I'll be doing that. I'm surprised that I have only a single core and I'm wondering why the heck I bought that mobo just a couple of years ago! I have 4 GB of RAM. I'm sure it's a pretty good dual-DVI video card. I do stuff like this all the time (these things simultaneously): (1) play a DVD ISO on one monitor (2) do VNCviewer on a second monitor (3) serve a DVD ISO over the network to VLC on another machine So I thought it could handle things but I guess it breaks down with a .MOV file that seems to use about 375 MB of disc space per minute of video. It's amazing that the camera has no problem playing the video, but the computer can't handle it. Am I doing something wrong? Mike On Thu, 7 Feb 2013, Yaron wrote: > Just for fun, can you try mplayer? I know people swear by VLC but I've > NEVER had luck with that thing. Mplayer always worked perfectly for me > though. > > On Thu, 7 Feb 2013, Mike Miller wrote: > >> I've been using Flash Video Downloader add-on to Firefox (on Ubuntu) to >> download YouTube videos and play them with VLC. They play much better >> on VLC than they do with Firefox. It isn't just because of buffering >> because even with good buffering in YouTube on Firefox I get a lot of >> jerking of the video with higher definition. >> >> The nicest thing I downloaded so far was a full version of Baraka >> (1992) in 1080p HD. It seems to be gone now, probably because of >> copyright issues, but it looks like some 720p versions are available. >> >> Now that Samsara (2012) is out on DVD (it's like Baraka, made by same >> people), I'm wondering if I can get a nice HD version on the web. I >> found that YouTube has it in 720p (1280x720) but it cost $4.99. >> That's not a lot of money, so I took a chance and paid for it. Well, >> it just doesn't play well on my system at 720p in YouTube/Firefox so I >> used Flash Video Downloader to download it to my hard drive. That >> seemed to work until I opened it in VLC -- it shows the right length >> (1:42:16) and the file is about 1.5 GB, and VLC runs, as if it were >> playing the movie, but there is no video and no audio. >> >> Do any of you know anything about this? I don't know if it's a DRM >> issue, but that's what I suspect. I just want to watch the movie that >> I paid for. I don't want to rip them off and I'm not going to >> distribute copies. From joel.longanecker at gmail.com Fri Feb 8 16:36:51 2013 From: joel.longanecker at gmail.com (Joel Longanecker) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 16:36:51 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] using VLC with YouTube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Get a mobo or video card that supports vdapu. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VDPAU It only looks like your CPU only supports sse2. So even the software decoding is slow. The raspberry pi is basically built around a vdpau chip so that's why it can eat h.264 like a champ. On Feb 8, 2013 4:31 PM, "Mike Miller" wrote: > Thanks for the tip on mplayer. It didn't work, either. > > I found later that I had a message from YouTube telling me that I had 48 > hours to watch the movie. But after restarting my computer, when I go back > to YouTube, it doesn't seem to remember that I paid $5. Oh well. > > If I can get the downloaded file to work, that would solve my problem. > > It's funny that I can play the downloaded 1080p HD video of Baraka, but > the .mov videos made by my Canon camera won't play - they play slowly in > mplayer and they just hang in VLC, but the audio plays normally in both. > Mplayer tells me that my system is too slow. This is all I've got: > > processor : 0 > vendor_id : AuthenticAMD > cpu family : 15 > model : 79 > model name : AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3800+ > stepping : 2 > cpu MHz : 2411.275 > cache size : 512 KB > fpu : yes > fpu_exception : yes > cpuid level : 1 > wp : yes > flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca > cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 syscall nx mmxext fxsr_opt rdtscp > lm 3dnowext 3dnow up rep_good extd_apicid pni cx16 lahf_lm svm extapic > cr8_legacy > bogomips : 4822.55 > TLB size : 1024 4K pages > clflush size : 64 > cache_alignment : 64 > address sizes : 40 bits physical, 48 bits virtual > power management: ts fid vid ttp tm stc > > It's not a big deal for me to replace that, so I guess I'll be doing that. > I'm surprised that I have only a single core and I'm wondering why the heck > I bought that mobo just a couple of years ago! I have 4 GB of RAM. > > I'm sure it's a pretty good dual-DVI video card. > > I do stuff like this all the time (these things simultaneously): > > (1) play a DVD ISO on one monitor > (2) do VNCviewer on a second monitor > (3) serve a DVD ISO over the network to VLC on another machine > > So I thought it could handle things but I guess it breaks down with a .MOV > file that seems to use about 375 MB of disc space per minute of video. It's > amazing that the camera has no problem playing the video, but the computer > can't handle it. Am I doing something wrong? > > Mike > > > On Thu, 7 Feb 2013, Yaron wrote: > > Just for fun, can you try mplayer? I know people swear by VLC but I've >> NEVER had luck with that thing. Mplayer always worked perfectly for me >> though. >> >> On Thu, 7 Feb 2013, Mike Miller wrote: >> >> I've been using Flash Video Downloader add-on to Firefox (on Ubuntu) to >>> download YouTube videos and play them with VLC. They play much better on >>> VLC than they do with Firefox. It isn't just because of buffering because >>> even with good buffering in YouTube on Firefox I get a lot of jerking of >>> the video with higher definition. >>> >>> The nicest thing I downloaded so far was a full version of Baraka (1992) >>> in 1080p HD. It seems to be gone now, probably because of copyright >>> issues, but it looks like some 720p versions are available. >>> >>> Now that Samsara (2012) is out on DVD (it's like Baraka, made by same >>> people), I'm wondering if I can get a nice HD version on the web. I found >>> that YouTube has it in 720p (1280x720) but it cost $4.99. That's not a lot >>> of money, so I took a chance and paid for it. Well, it just doesn't play >>> well on my system at 720p in YouTube/Firefox so I used Flash Video >>> Downloader to download it to my hard drive. That seemed to work until I >>> opened it in VLC -- it shows the right length (1:42:16) and the file is >>> about 1.5 GB, and VLC runs, as if it were playing the movie, but there is >>> no video and no audio. >>> >>> Do any of you know anything about this? I don't know if it's a DRM >>> issue, but that's what I suspect. I just want to watch the movie that I >>> paid for. I don't want to rip them off and I'm not going to distribute >>> copies. >>> >> ______________________________**_________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri Feb 8 16:39:45 2013 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 16:39:45 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] using VLC with YouTube In-Reply-To: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> References: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Feb 2013, Robert Gilbertson wrote: > I have mixed results with Flash files also. > I use a Firefox addon called Download Helper. > As part of download it allows converting flv to another format like mp4 or > wmv that may work better in the video player. I forgot to say that the downloaded file is MP4. The add on is called Flash Video Downloader, but the files it downloads are often not flash. I don't have any trouble playing anything I've downloaded from YouTube. The files have had .flv, .mp4 and .webm extensions. Even the 1080p .mp4 file played perfectly without sticking. Mike From tclug at freakzilla.com Fri Feb 8 16:56:13 2013 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 16:56:13 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] using VLC with YouTube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Feb 2013, Joel Longanecker wrote: > The raspberry pi is basically built around a vdpau chip so that's why it can > eat h.264 like a champ. Are you sure about that? The PI can in fact hardware-decode h.264, but I'm not sure it's a vdpau thing. If it is, it's not the same as the good ol' nVidia in my desktops - I was unable to get any vdpau stuff to work on my PI. Basically I wasn't able to get mplayer to do anything decent on it, which is why I have xbmc on it instead of mythtv. -- From joel.longanecker at gmail.com Fri Feb 8 17:01:44 2013 From: joel.longanecker at gmail.com (Joel Longanecker) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 17:01:44 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] using VLC with YouTube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You're right. It uses something similar. Point being that it decodes in hw. On Feb 8, 2013 4:56 PM, "Yaron" wrote: > On Fri, 8 Feb 2013, Joel Longanecker wrote: > > The raspberry pi is basically built around a vdpau chip so that's why it >> can >> eat h.264 like a champ. >> > > Are you sure about that? The PI can in fact hardware-decode h.264, but I'm > not sure it's a vdpau thing. If it is, it's not the same as the good ol' > nVidia in my desktops - I was unable to get any vdpau stuff to work on my > PI. Basically I wasn't able to get mplayer to do anything decent on it, > which is why I have xbmc on it instead of mythtv. > > > > -- > ______________________________**_________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri Feb 8 17:19:17 2013 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 17:19:17 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: <20130208192132.GB31093@signbit.net> References: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> <1360338505.45055.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <20130208192132.GB31093@signbit.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Feb 2013, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Fri, Feb 08, 2013 at 07:48:25AM -0800, Ubu Sumner wrote: > >> "....Minnesota?Sen. Amy Klobuchar's legislation?to increase H-1B visas >> and green card quotas is welcome and will help the U.S. economy. The >> jobs that are offered will only be located where there are not >> sufficient qualified local citizens...." > > Businesses will go whether the costs are lower, so they will either > lower costs here or go to China, India, Vietnam in search for cheaper > workforce. Doesn't that kind of thinking lead to a "race to the bottom" where every worker must compete internationally to accept the lowest wages in the world in order to get a job and feed himself? I can see how that system would work for some people, but not for anyone on this list. The goal of bringing workers from other countries to the US is to reduce the cost of labor by increasing the supply. I can hear corporations everywhere saying, "There's no way I'm going to pay $15/hour for a programmer!" (corporations are people, so I can hear them). There has been a huge movement in the past several decades to crush the American worker and this is just one more part of that long battle. Unemployment is high party because the big corporations like it this way. If people are unemployed, they'll work for cheap. They'll replace us with robots, with foreign workers, any way they can. They just want more for themselves. They don't care about the long-term effects. We have to try to fix the damage, to get our jobs back and to preserve our future earnings. Stopping a flood of immigrants and insisting on decent wages instead would be a reasonable first step in the right direction. My wife came here on an H-1B, so I am not unsympathetic to the problems of immigrants, but they don't have to immigrate -- they can stay in their countries and fix them. Draining the world of intellectual talent is not necessarily a long-term win for us. It should be good to have an educated elite in every nation that is highly favorable to the USA. Turning away more immigrants will help achieve that goal. Mike From mattwj2002 at gmail.com Fri Feb 8 17:40:12 2013 From: mattwj2002 at gmail.com (Matthew Junk) Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2013 17:40:12 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Repo for old distro In-Reply-To: <511467E5.5070208@lctn.org> References: <511467E5.5070208@lctn.org> Message-ID: <51158CDC.1040203@gmail.com> http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ On 02/07/2013 08:50 PM, Raymond Norton wrote: > I have to set up an old distro to move some files over before > upgrading. I am trying to find a working repo for Ubuntu Dapper 6.06 > LTS, but not finding what I need. > > Here are the prerequisites I need "libidn11 curl fetchmail libpcre3 > libgmp3c2 libxml2 libstdc++6 openssl perl" > > Most err out with "no installation candidate, or package requires X > and X will not be installed". > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From stuporglue at gmail.com Fri Feb 8 20:24:34 2013 From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 20:24:34 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] using VLC with YouTube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2/7/13, Yaron wrote: > Just for fun, can you try mplayer? I know people swear by VLC but I've > NEVER had luck with that thing. Mplayer always worked perfectly for me > though. Run vlc or mplayer from the command line and check the output. If nothing looks suspicious use the verbose flags (-v maybe?) for vlc or mplayer. I've had videos that were missing keyframes (or something like that) and would really any program that tried to play them. I ended up having to use ffmpeg to re-encode them to get them to play. Hopefully the output will point you in the right direction though. It could be the hardware becoming outdated as some have mentioned, but it sounds like you've been playing other files just fine. -- Michael From stuporglue at gmail.com Fri Feb 8 21:00:21 2013 From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 21:00:21 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: References: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> <1360338505.45055.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <20130208192132.GB31093@signbit.net> Message-ID: > The goal of bringing workers from other countries to the US is to reduce > the cost of labor by increasing the supply. I can hear corporations > everywhere saying, "There's no way I'm going to pay $15/hour for a > programmer!" (corporations are people, so I can hear them). There has > been a huge movement in the past several decades to crush the American > worker and this is just one more part of that long battle. I'm don't know enough about H-1B visas to make a good decision, but I do know that having someone you can work with face-to-face and who is culturally compatible with your company is a factor in the ROI formula. I'm American and even working with other Americans is a challenge when you're not working face to face. Email, chat and video conferencing only go so far in building trust and rapport with your co-workers. Once you've got enough need, then it's worth dealing with that additional overhead, but for many small businesses it's more effective to pay more for local programmers/whatever. > Draining the world of intellectual talent is not > necessarily a long-term win for us. It should be good to have an educated > elite in every nation that is highly favorable to the USA. Turning away > more immigrants will help achieve that goal. This is part of why I'm not sure about H-1B visas. If we're employing high-tech people on a rotating basis then we lose a potential job position for Americans and don't retain the experience and knowledge of that person over the long term. I would probably be more in favor of a convenient/rapid path to naturalization for people coming to fill tech positions. They'd be more likely to be here for life, and we as a country would benefit from that over the long run. -- Michael From susan.dawn.stewart at gmail.com Sat Feb 9 00:16:30 2013 From: susan.dawn.stewart at gmail.com (Susan) Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 00:16:30 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I met a guy from India, here on a H-1B Visa no doubt, working at major MN medical technology corporation located in Arden Hills, doing Level 1 Desktop Support. I wouldn't call this a highly skilled position - I doubt this company even tried to fill this position with a U.S. citizen. #justsayin' Susan On Feb 8, 2013, at 9:00 PM, tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org wrote: > Re: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation From wdtj at yahoo.com Sat Feb 9 08:03:26 2013 From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 06:03:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1360418606.15683.YahooMailNeo@web121505.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> A few years ago, I was looking for a new position at the MN Job Corps.? I found several that sounded interesting so I printed them out and took them to the advisor.? He told me that he "could just tell", because of the very specific job requirements, that these were written by a company that already had a H-1B candidate and had written them so they could say that they couldn't find anyone else with these specific requirements. He said it happens all the time. I still see these pop up in the jobs lists.? ? --- Wayne Johnson,???????????? | There are two kinds of people: Those 3943 Penn Ave. N.????????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done," Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, (612) 522-7003???????????? | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis >________________________________ > From: Susan >To: "tclug-list at mn-linux.org" >Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2013 12:16 AM >Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation > >I met a guy from India, here on a H-1B Visa no doubt, working at major MN medical technology corporation located in Arden Hills, doing Level 1 Desktop Support. I wouldn't call this a highly skilled position - I doubt this company even tried to fill this position with a U.S. citizen. > >#justsayin' > >Susan > >On Feb 8, 2013, at 9:00 PM, tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org wrote: > >> Re: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list at mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Sat Feb 9 10:34:44 2013 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (B-o-B De Mars) Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2013 10:34:44 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: <1360418606.15683.YahooMailNeo@web121505.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1360418606.15683.YahooMailNeo@web121505.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <51167AA4.6060107@gmail.com> On 2/9/2013 8:03 AM, Wayne Johnson wrote:: > A few years ago, I was looking for a new position at the MN Job Corps. > I found several that sounded interesting so I printed them out and took > them to the advisor. He told me that he "could just tell", because of > the very specific job requirements, that these were written by a company > that already had a H-1B candidate and had written them so they could say > that they couldn't find anyone else with these specific requirements. He > said it happens all the time. > > I still see these pop up in the jobs lists. A similar situation happened to me about 12 years ago @ the U of M. I applied for a job, had 3 interviews, thought it was a slam dunk, and then nothing. I had a friend who worked in the department so I asked her what happened. She said that even though I was the most qualified for the job, and they liked me a lot, they ended up with someone else (who had almost zero experience). She explained that they would have had to fill out a lot of extra paperwork for the powers that be explaining (justifying) why on earth they would have hired a white American male with skills versus a poor minority woman with none. For them it was the path of least resistance to fill the position based on the rules of the game over there & I get that. At that time this really made me mad, but I ended up with a much better job in the end (where I still work today) so it was a story with a happy ending. As for the work visa issue I feel this is an issue that is not simply explained without looking at the whole picture and then following the money ;) I have mixed opinions on this, mostly against it. One thing to consider though (there is always a back side on every coin). I graduated High School in 1990. For a kid going to college then (be it a huge University all they way down to a 2 year tech school) you could not take any sort of Computer Science (Computer anything really) program without having at least a couple required COBOL classes. Over time they stopped teaching this at schools, and now seems to be only offered by specialized training centers. It's now 2013, and almost all the large corporation who back in the day ran Big Blue Iron still do (surprise!). Banks, Insurance companies, Utilities, etc. Although there are still COBOL programers in America (my wife is one of them), they are starting to get long in the tooth & retiring. Basically a dying bread. Kids don't learn this anymore, and corporation with that much invested in big iron have an issue. Do they request schools start offering COBOL again, and if they did would schools listen? Probably not. If they listened would kids want to spend there precious dollars on these classes of study? Probably not. I want to make video games, and be rich! Do corporations completely migrate their infrastructure away from mainframes? You're Fired! From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sat Feb 9 12:20:45 2013 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 12:20:45 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: <51167AA4.6060107@gmail.com> References: <1360418606.15683.YahooMailNeo@web121505.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <51167AA4.6060107@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Feb 2013, B-o-B De Mars wrote: > On 2/9/2013 8:03 AM, Wayne Johnson wrote:: > >> A few years ago, I was looking for a new position at the MN Job Corps. >> I found several that sounded interesting so I printed them out and took >> them to the advisor. He told me that he "could just tell", because of >> the very specific job requirements, that these were written by a >> company that already had a H-1B candidate and had written them so they >> could say that they couldn't find anyone else with these specific >> requirements. He said it happens all the time. >> >> I still see these pop up in the jobs lists. > > A similar situation happened to me about 12 years ago @ the U of M. I > applied for a job, had 3 interviews, thought it was a slam dunk, and > then nothing. I had a friend who worked in the department so I asked > her what happened. She said that even though I was the most qualified > for the job, and they liked me a lot, they ended up with someone else > (who had almost zero experience). She explained that they would have > had to fill out a lot of extra paperwork for the powers that be > explaining (justifying) why on earth they would have hired a white > American male with skills versus a poor minority woman with none. For > them it was the path of least resistance to fill the position based on > the rules of the game over there & I get that. At that time this really > made me mad, but I ended up with a much better job in the end (where I > still work today) so it was a story with a happy ending. I thought you were going to say that they had an internal candidate. That is very common at universities. The problem is that they have a silly rule that for certain jobs we must post advertisements in newspapers. The problem is that an internal candidate is often ipso-facto superior to any possible external candidate because they want someone who can do what that internal candidate just spent two years doing, and designing and developing -- no one in the world can possibly do it as well. So they really shouldn't post it, I guess, but it does give people an opportunity to meet in job interviews, which accomplishes something. > Do corporations completely migrate their infrastructure away from > mainframes? You're Fired! Isn't that *the* classic FUD?: "No one ever got fired for choosing IBM!" Mike From nesius at gmail.com Sun Feb 10 00:30:39 2013 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 00:30:39 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: References: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> <1360338505.45055.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <20130208192132.GB31093@signbit.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 1:36 PM, Andrew Dahl wrote: > Interesting note regarding companies hiring overseas. My brother-in-law's > employer has started to shift from hiring people in India to hiring people > here, citing the ROI as the reason. > A lot of companies have found the increased overhead/supervision to make sure the low-rent overseas talent produces offsets the savings by going overseas. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nesius at gmail.com Sun Feb 10 00:35:04 2013 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 00:35:04 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: <20130208192132.GB31093@signbit.net> References: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> <1360338505.45055.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <20130208192132.GB31093@signbit.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Fri, Feb 08, 2013 at 07:48:25AM -0800, Ubu Sumner wrote: > > "....Minnesota Sen. Amy Klobuchar's legislation to increase H-1B > > visas and green card quotas is welcome and will help the U.S. > > economy. The jobs that are offered will only be located where there > > are not sufficient qualified local citizens...." > > Businesses will go whether the costs are lower, so they will either > lower costs here or go to China, India, Vietnam in search for cheaper > workforce. > The Federal government allows the 1%-ers to have it both ways - they can take their jobs overseas OR bring the low-rent talent here. The same force propels people to migrate wherever more resources (or > Maslow's "needs") are available for them and their families. > If you're implying the labor is as willing to migrate as the employer - I'm not sure that's true. Not sure I understood your point correctly though. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Sun Feb 10 00:41:23 2013 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 00:41:23 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: References: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> <1360338505.45055.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <20130208192132.GB31093@signbit.net> Message-ID: In my career, I've had the good fortune of working with people from all over the world. India, China, Romania, Hungary, Ukraine, Canada, Latvia, Jamaica, as well as other countries I'm sure I'm forgetting. I consider my life richer for the friends I've made, and I've always felt bad when my friends have to deal with extra hassles to deal with immigration issues, just so they can live and work where they'd like to on this planet. I've felt ashamed when I see fellow Americans treat them badly, just because they were born elsewhere on the planet. I hope in my lifetime I'll have the chance to travel to other countries to live and work, and I hope to find people who are welcoming, rather than the type of people to bitch and moan about their lot in life, like I'm seeing on this thread. I think it's bigoted and pathetic, and I'm glad I don't work with you. That is all. -Erik On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 12:30 AM, Robert Nesius wrote: > > > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 1:36 PM, Andrew Dahl wrote: >> >> Interesting note regarding companies hiring overseas. My brother-in-law's >> employer has started to shift from hiring people in India to hiring people >> here, citing the ROI as the reason. > > > A lot of companies have found the increased overhead/supervision to make > sure the low-rent overseas talent produces offsets the savings by going > overseas. > > -Rob > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Erik K. Mitchell erik.mitchell at gmail.com From nesius at gmail.com Sun Feb 10 01:12:42 2013 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 01:12:42 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: References: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> <1360338505.45055.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <20130208192132.GB31093@signbit.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 12:41 AM, Erik Mitchell wrote: > In my career, I've had the good fortune of working with people from > all over the world. India, China, Romania, Hungary, Ukraine, Canada, > Latvia, Jamaica, as well as other countries I'm sure I'm forgetting. I > consider my life richer for the friends I've made, and I've always > felt bad when my friends have to deal with extra hassles to deal with > immigration issues, just so they can live and work where they'd like > to on this planet. I've felt ashamed when I see fellow Americans treat > them badly, just because they were born elsewhere on the planet. > > I hope in my lifetime I'll have the chance to travel to other > countries to live and work, and I hope to find people who are > welcoming, rather than the type of people to bitch and moan about > their lot in life, like I'm seeing on this thread. I think it's > bigoted and pathetic, and I'm glad I don't work with you. > > That is all. > > -Erik > How nice of you to make assumptions and pronouncements about what a bad person I seem to be. If your comments aren't directed at me despite responding to my post, my apologies. But with that said... I too have worked with people all over the world. I used to manage a service across 50+ sites world-wide and worked with people on every continent except Antartica. Without fail the people I worked with were good people, and I enjoyed all of my interactions with them. My comments were not intended to be mass indictments. However, that said, cheap over-seas talent is not a magic bullet for lowering costs. I've met multiple managers who've tried to move software development activities overseas, and they could not attain high quality results until they relocated people over there to supervise and manage and once they did that the value proposition evaporated. However, cheap labor in manufacturing sectors has in fact yielded some big returns, as evidenced by trying to buy something Made in the USA in Walmart. However, that same quality risk exists for manufacturing processes overseas. The company I work with now uses heavy-lifting devices to lift heavy pre-cast concrete panels. We had one fail, which dropped a 20-ton panel onto a crane (destroyed the crane, but the operator escaped unscathed). When we tested the lifting devices we discovered a non-trivial percentage of them were failing. When we engaged the supplier and asked why, we learned he'd stopped sourcing his steel from American mills and was bringing in steel from China that was certified by the supplier to be of the same quality (but clearly wasn't). Switching back to labor as a resource though, before condemning anyone with protectionist tendencies as bigoted and pathetic, I would suggest you try to find a job with your technical skills in Canada, Australia, and most European countries. What you'll find is that the governments of those countries protect their labor markets, and the companies supposedly burdened by the higher labor costs are still very successful. Regardless, this is an issue of public policy, not bigotry. Kind regards. -Rob > > On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 12:30 AM, Robert Nesius wrote: > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 1:36 PM, Andrew Dahl wrote: > >> > >> Interesting note regarding companies hiring overseas. My > brother-in-law's > >> employer has started to shift from hiring people in India to hiring > people > >> here, citing the ROI as the reason. > > > > > > A lot of companies have found the increased overhead/supervision to make > > sure the low-rent overseas talent produces offsets the savings by going > > overseas. > > > > -Rob > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > -- > Erik K. Mitchell > erik.mitchell at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From droidjd at gmail.com Sun Feb 10 02:28:51 2013 From: droidjd at gmail.com (Andrew Dahl) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 02:28:51 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: References: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> <1360338505.45055.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <20130208192132.GB31093@signbit.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 12:30 AM, Robert Nesius wrote: > > > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 1:36 PM, Andrew Dahl wrote: > >> Interesting note regarding companies hiring overseas. My brother-in-law's >> employer has started to shift from hiring people in India to hiring people >> here, citing the ROI as the reason. >> > > A lot of companies have found the increased overhead/supervision to make > sure the low-rent overseas talent produces offsets the savings by going > overseas. > > -Rob > > That and due to recent government regulation in India, it's becoming a much more expensive route. That was their primary reason for doing it (citing the ROI was going down due to these increased costs imposed by their government -- kind of left that part out... slipped my mind at the time ;)). But, some companies do have good results. My last employer had a large team in India, which we'd offload work onto and check in on occasion. Given the lack of supervision, I was quite impressed. -- Another branch of the company had over 14,000 workers in India that were used for R&D. They were able to do some very awesome stuff in short periods. So, now that I'm done rambling... I think the larger companies (60,000+ employees) have less of a problem with overhead/supervision because they're able to setup a large presence there and it becomes more cost effective (plus, they've the resources to deal with the overhead and I doubt they'd be finding 14,000 people here too easily, thus it starts to become a required move). On the converse. smaller companies have more trouble because they do run into huge barriers with supervision and management with much smaller numbers. My opinion, of course. -- I've only had to deal with large teams overseas at employers with 100,000+ employees. My current employer employs a small handful of people around the world, but it's a whole lot easier to manage stateside when it's only one or two per country. And I've had the pleasure of dealing with /very/ small companies who built software strictly through companies that outsource the work to offshore developers... overall, that's been the only bad experience so far. -Andrew > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From droidjd at gmail.com Sun Feb 10 02:32:28 2013 From: droidjd at gmail.com (Andrew Dahl) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 02:32:28 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: References: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> <1360338505.45055.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <20130208192132.GB31093@signbit.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 12:30 AM, Robert Nesius wrote: > > > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 1:36 PM, Andrew Dahl wrote: > >> Interesting note regarding companies hiring overseas. My brother-in-law's >> employer has started to shift from hiring people in India to hiring people >> here, citing the ROI as the reason. >> > > A lot of companies have found the increased overhead/supervision to make > sure the low-rent overseas talent produces offsets the savings by going > overseas. > > -Rob > > That and due to recent government regulation in India, it's becoming a much more expensive route. That was their primary reason for doing it (citing the ROI was going down due to these increased costs imposed by their government -- kind of left that part out... slipped my mind at the time ;)). But, some companies do have good results. My last employer had a large team in India, which we'd offload work onto and check in on occasion. Given the lack of supervision, I was quite impressed. -- Another branch of the company had over 14,000 workers in India that were used for R&D. They were able to do some very awesome stuff in short periods. So, now that I'm done rambling... I think the larger companies (60,000+ employees) have less of a problem with overhead/supervision because they're able to setup a large presence there and it becomes more cost effective (plus, they've the resources to deal with the overhead and I doubt they'd be finding 14,000 people here too easily, thus it starts to become a required move). On the converse. smaller companies have more trouble because they do run into huge barriers with supervision and management with much smaller numbers. My opinion, of course. -- I've only had to deal with large teams overseas at employers with 100,000+ employees. My current employer employs a small handful of people around the world, but it's a whole lot easier to manage stateside when it's only one or two per country. And I've had the pleasure of dealing with /very/ small companies who built software strictly through companies that outsource the work to offshore developers... overall, that's been the only bad experience so far. -Andrew > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From droidjd at gmail.com Sun Feb 10 02:40:37 2013 From: droidjd at gmail.com (Andrew Dahl) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 02:40:37 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: References: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> <1360338505.45055.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <20130208192132.GB31093@signbit.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 12:35 AM, Robert Nesius wrote: > > > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Florin Iucha wrote: > >> On Fri, Feb 08, 2013 at 07:48:25AM -0800, Ubu Sumner wrote: >> > "....Minnesota Sen. Amy Klobuchar's legislation to increase H-1B >> > visas and green card quotas is welcome and will help the U.S. >> > economy. The jobs that are offered will only be located where there >> > are not sufficient qualified local citizens...." >> >> Businesses will go whether the costs are lower, so they will either >> lower costs here or go to China, India, Vietnam in search for cheaper >> workforce. >> > > The Federal government allows the 1%-ers to have it both ways - they can > take their jobs overseas OR bring the low-rent talent here. > Speaking of assumptions... 1%-ers? A couple of my past employers that hired overseas weren't part of the notorious 1%-ers. And by that, I mean they weren't making over 340,000/yr. -- You should probably have just referred to them as businesses and you would have come off as a little more credible. Kind Regards, Andrew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Sun Feb 10 04:02:33 2013 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 04:02:33 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] rm -x Message-ID: i am dumbfounded that, tho cp, du, and rsync have -x and find has -mount, rm -r lacks such a feature, leaving us to either manually check for mounts within a tree, script it, and/or suffer the loss, eg when forgetting to use said script! my most recent forehead whack follows using /tmp/foo as a quickie mountpoint, neglecting to specify ro, and a few days later wondering where the data went.. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Sun Feb 10 04:17:35 2013 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 04:17:35 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: References: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> <1360338505.45055.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <20130208192132.GB31093@signbit.net> Message-ID: My remark was not directed at you, Robert. Just continuing on the end of the thread. On Sunday, February 10, 2013, Robert Nesius wrote: > > > > On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 12:41 AM, Erik Mitchell > > wrote: > >> In my career, I've had the good fortune of working with people from >> all over the world. India, China, Romania, Hungary, Ukraine, Canada, >> Latvia, Jamaica, as well as other countries I'm sure I'm forgetting. I >> consider my life richer for the friends I've made, and I've always >> felt bad when my friends have to deal with extra hassles to deal with >> immigration issues, just so they can live and work where they'd like >> to on this planet. I've felt ashamed when I see fellow Americans treat >> them badly, just because they were born elsewhere on the planet. >> >> I hope in my lifetime I'll have the chance to travel to other >> countries to live and work, and I hope to find people who are >> welcoming, rather than the type of people to bitch and moan about >> their lot in life, like I'm seeing on this thread. I think it's >> bigoted and pathetic, and I'm glad I don't work with you. >> >> That is all. >> >> -Erik >> > > How nice of you to make assumptions and pronouncements about what a bad > person I seem to be. If your comments aren't directed at me despite > responding to my post, my apologies. But with that said... > > I too have worked with people all over the world. I used to manage a > service across 50+ sites world-wide and worked with people on every > continent except Antartica. Without fail the people I worked with were > good people, and I enjoyed all of my interactions with them. My comments > were not intended to be mass indictments. However, that said, cheap > over-seas talent is not a magic bullet for lowering costs. I've met > multiple managers who've tried to move software development activities > overseas, and they could not attain high quality results until they > relocated people over there to supervise and manage and once they did that > the value proposition evaporated. However, cheap labor in manufacturing > sectors has in fact yielded some big returns, as evidenced by trying to buy > something Made in the USA in Walmart. > > However, that same quality risk exists for manufacturing processes > overseas. The company I work with now uses heavy-lifting devices to lift > heavy pre-cast concrete panels. We had one fail, which dropped a 20-ton > panel onto a crane (destroyed the crane, but the operator escaped > unscathed). When we tested the lifting devices we discovered a non-trivial > percentage of them were failing. When we engaged the supplier and asked > why, we learned he'd stopped sourcing his steel from American mills and was > bringing in steel from China that was certified by the supplier to be of > the same quality (but clearly wasn't). > > Switching back to labor as a resource though, before condemning anyone > with protectionist tendencies as bigoted and pathetic, I would suggest you > try to find a job with your technical skills in Canada, Australia, and most > European countries. What you'll find is that the governments of those > countries protect their labor markets, and the companies supposedly > burdened by the higher labor costs are still very successful. > > Regardless, this is an issue of public policy, not bigotry. > > Kind regards. > > -Rob > > > >> >> On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 12:30 AM, Robert Nesius > >> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 1:36 PM, Andrew Dahl > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Interesting note regarding companies hiring overseas. My >> brother-in-law's >> >> employer has started to shift from hiring people in India to hiring >> people >> >> here, citing the ROI as the reason. >> > >> > >> > A lot of companies have found the increased overhead/supervision to make >> > sure the low-rent overseas talent produces offsets the savings by going >> > overseas. >> > >> > -Rob >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > 'tclug-list at mn-linux.org');> >> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Erik K. Mitchell >> erik.mitchell at gmail.com > 'erik.mitchell at gmail.com');> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org > 'tclug-list at mn-linux.org');> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > -- Erik K. Mitchell erik.mitchell at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eng at pinenet.com Sun Feb 10 06:06:39 2013 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 06:06:39 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: References: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> <1360338505.45055.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <20130208192132.GB31093@signbit.net> Message-ID: <51178D4F.4000007@pinenet.com> Seeing this on a linux discussion group reminds me why I'm glad to have lived outside the Twin Cities for 30 years. They typecast everybody by race, color, creed, sex, origin and then call everybody else a bigot. People in real world Minnesota worry about 20 below zero, snow, crops, family, and yes, jobs. I've never seen prejudice against any of the declared typecasts. But plenty of resentment toward the self appointed judge and jury. This snow is welcome work. Maybe we pathetic bigots can feed you another year. Erik Mitchell wrote: > My remark was not directed at you, Robert. Just continuing on the end of > the thread. > > On Sunday, February 10, 2013, Robert Nesius wrote: > >> >> >> >> On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 12:41 AM, Erik Mitchell >>> wrote: >> >>> In my career, I've had the good fortune of working with people from >>> all over the world. India, China, Romania, Hungary, Ukraine, Canada, >>> Latvia, Jamaica, as well as other countries I'm sure I'm forgetting. I >>> consider my life richer for the friends I've made, and I've always >>> felt bad when my friends have to deal with extra hassles to deal with >>> immigration issues, just so they can live and work where they'd like >>> to on this planet. I've felt ashamed when I see fellow Americans treat >>> them badly, just because they were born elsewhere on the planet. >>> >>> I hope in my lifetime I'll have the chance to travel to other >>> countries to live and work, and I hope to find people who are >>> welcoming, rather than the type of people to bitch and moan about >>> their lot in life, like I'm seeing on this thread. I think it's >>> bigoted and pathetic, and I'm glad I don't work with you. >>> >>> That is all. >>> >>> -Erik >>> >> >> How nice of you to make assumptions and pronouncements about what a bad >> person I seem to be. If your comments aren't directed at me despite >> responding to my post, my apologies. But with that said... >> >> I too have worked with people all over the world. I used to manage a >> service across 50+ sites world-wide and worked with people on every >> continent except Antartica. Without fail the people I worked with were >> good people, and I enjoyed all of my interactions with them. My comments >> were not intended to be mass indictments. However, that said, cheap >> over-seas talent is not a magic bullet for lowering costs. I've met >> multiple managers who've tried to move software development activities >> overseas, and they could not attain high quality results until they >> relocated people over there to supervise and manage and once they did that >> the value proposition evaporated. However, cheap labor in manufacturing >> sectors has in fact yielded some big returns, as evidenced by trying to buy >> something Made in the USA in Walmart. >> >> However, that same quality risk exists for manufacturing processes >> overseas. The company I work with now uses heavy-lifting devices to lift >> heavy pre-cast concrete panels. We had one fail, which dropped a 20-ton >> panel onto a crane (destroyed the crane, but the operator escaped >> unscathed). When we tested the lifting devices we discovered a non-trivial >> percentage of them were failing. When we engaged the supplier and asked >> why, we learned he'd stopped sourcing his steel from American mills and was >> bringing in steel from China that was certified by the supplier to be of >> the same quality (but clearly wasn't). >> >> Switching back to labor as a resource though, before condemning anyone >> with protectionist tendencies as bigoted and pathetic, I would suggest you >> try to find a job with your technical skills in Canada, Australia, and most >> European countries. What you'll find is that the governments of those >> countries protect their labor markets, and the companies supposedly >> burdened by the higher labor costs are still very successful. >> >> Regardless, this is an issue of public policy, not bigotry. >> >> Kind regards. >> >> -Rob >> >> >> >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 12:30 AM, Robert Nesius> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 1:36 PM, Andrew Dahl> >>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Interesting note regarding companies hiring overseas. My >>> brother-in-law's >>>>> employer has started to shift from hiring people in India to hiring >>> people >>>>> here, citing the ROI as the reason. >>>> >>>> >>>> A lot of companies have found the increased overhead/supervision to make >>>> sure the low-rent overseas talent produces offsets the savings by going >>>> overseas. >>>> >>>> -Rob >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org>> 'tclug-list at mn-linux.org');> >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Erik K. Mitchell >>> erik.mitchell at gmail.com>> 'erik.mitchell at gmail.com');> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org>> 'tclug-list at mn-linux.org');> >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Sun Feb 10 07:42:48 2013 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 07:42:48 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] ssh updates Message-ID: i've restricted port 22 to a chosen few IP's, and run an additional ssh on another port that has different restrictions. i'd love if i could do both with just one instance, did i miss something? the problem with multiple instances is with yum updates. at first i had a customized /etc/init.d/sshd that started both instances, but every ssh update would replace it. now i have a second start script for the second port, but still, ssh updates kill both and only restart port 22. what is a better solution? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Sun Feb 10 07:51:19 2013 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 07:51:19 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] ssh updates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: perhaps port my startup script to /etc/init and use respawn.. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Sun Feb 10 08:12:36 2013 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 08:12:36 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] speedy startups Message-ID: is something like the following possible yet? specify nobootwait on root filesystem, other filesystems are mounted and system starts up fully even while root filesystem fsck is in progress, a "root filesystem writeable" event starts jobs that need to wait (sshd shouldn't). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Sun Feb 10 09:35:50 2013 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 09:35:50 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: <51178D4F.4000007@pinenet.com> References: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> <1360338505.45055.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <20130208192132.GB31093@signbit.net> <51178D4F.4000007@pinenet.com> Message-ID: Sorry if my remarks upset you. I think it's incredible that you've never seen prejudice here... That must be nice. I see it all the time. I'm prejudiced myself. I think any honest person would admit that they're prejudiced. But I think it's ugly. I wish I wasn't prejudiced. I try not to be in my actions towards others. When I see it coming from a social group I consider myself a part of, I think I have a right to speak up about it. I don't think that means I've appointed myself judge and jury. Everyone has a right to his or her opinion, and everyone has a right to speak his or her mind. As for jobs, there are a lot of them out there, but maybe not the same jobs as there have been in the past. That's reality. That's the way of the world. Any minute you're feeling sorry for yourself or blaming your problems on other people is a minute you're not looking at the world and finding out a way to be useful to others. There will always be jobs for people who work hard to make themselves useful. Now rarely do I ever preach that sermon to anyone but myself. But that's what I tell myself, to keep myself going, and since I was 15, I've had work. 18 years now. Never as a farmer though. Maybe someday. Hopefully this year I'll do a decent job with the vegetable garden, and that will be a start. Enjoy the snow, -Erik On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 6:06 AM, Rick Engebretson wrote: > Seeing this on a linux discussion group reminds me why I'm glad to have > lived outside the Twin Cities for 30 years. > > They typecast everybody by race, color, creed, sex, origin and then call > everybody else a bigot. > > People in real world Minnesota worry about 20 below zero, snow, crops, > family, and yes, jobs. I've never seen prejudice against any of the declared > typecasts. But plenty of resentment toward the self appointed judge and > jury. > > This snow is welcome work. Maybe we pathetic bigots can feed you another > year. > > Erik Mitchell wrote: >> >> My remark was not directed at you, Robert. Just continuing on the end of >> the thread. >> >> On Sunday, February 10, 2013, Robert Nesius wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 12:41 AM, Erik >>> Mitchell>> 'erik.mitchell at gmail.com');> >>> >>>> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> In my career, I've had the good fortune of working with people from >>>> all over the world. India, China, Romania, Hungary, Ukraine, Canada, >>>> Latvia, Jamaica, as well as other countries I'm sure I'm forgetting. I >>>> consider my life richer for the friends I've made, and I've always >>>> felt bad when my friends have to deal with extra hassles to deal with >>>> immigration issues, just so they can live and work where they'd like >>>> to on this planet. I've felt ashamed when I see fellow Americans treat >>>> them badly, just because they were born elsewhere on the planet. >>>> >>>> I hope in my lifetime I'll have the chance to travel to other >>>> countries to live and work, and I hope to find people who are >>>> welcoming, rather than the type of people to bitch and moan about >>>> their lot in life, like I'm seeing on this thread. I think it's >>>> bigoted and pathetic, and I'm glad I don't work with you. >>>> >>>> That is all. >>>> >>>> -Erik >>>> >>> >>> How nice of you to make assumptions and pronouncements about what a bad >>> person I seem to be. If your comments aren't directed at me despite >>> responding to my post, my apologies. But with that said... >>> >>> I too have worked with people all over the world. I used to manage a >>> service across 50+ sites world-wide and worked with people on every >>> continent except Antartica. Without fail the people I worked with were >>> good people, and I enjoyed all of my interactions with them. My comments >>> were not intended to be mass indictments. However, that said, cheap >>> over-seas talent is not a magic bullet for lowering costs. I've met >>> multiple managers who've tried to move software development activities >>> overseas, and they could not attain high quality results until they >>> relocated people over there to supervise and manage and once they did >>> that >>> the value proposition evaporated. However, cheap labor in manufacturing >>> sectors has in fact yielded some big returns, as evidenced by trying to >>> buy >>> something Made in the USA in Walmart. >>> >>> However, that same quality risk exists for manufacturing processes >>> overseas. The company I work with now uses heavy-lifting devices to lift >>> heavy pre-cast concrete panels. We had one fail, which dropped a 20-ton >>> panel onto a crane (destroyed the crane, but the operator escaped >>> unscathed). When we tested the lifting devices we discovered a >>> non-trivial >>> percentage of them were failing. When we engaged the supplier and asked >>> why, we learned he'd stopped sourcing his steel from American mills and >>> was >>> bringing in steel from China that was certified by the supplier to be of >>> the same quality (but clearly wasn't). >>> >>> Switching back to labor as a resource though, before condemning anyone >>> with protectionist tendencies as bigoted and pathetic, I would suggest >>> you >>> try to find a job with your technical skills in Canada, Australia, and >>> most >>> European countries. What you'll find is that the governments of those >>> countries protect their labor markets, and the companies supposedly >>> burdened by the higher labor costs are still very successful. >>> >>> Regardless, this is an issue of public policy, not bigotry. >>> >>> Kind regards. >>> >>> -Rob >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 12:30 AM, Robert >>>> Nesius> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 1:36 PM, Andrew >>>>> Dahl> >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Interesting note regarding companies hiring overseas. My >>>> >>>> brother-in-law's >>>>>> >>>>>> employer has started to shift from hiring people in India to hiring >>>> >>>> people >>>>>> >>>>>> here, citing the ROI as the reason. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> A lot of companies have found the increased overhead/supervision to >>>>> make >>>>> sure the low-rent overseas talent produces offsets the savings by going >>>>> overseas. >>>>> >>>>> -Rob >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>> >>>> 'tclug-list at mn-linux.org');> >>>> >>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Erik K. Mitchell >>>> erik.mitchell at gmail.com>>> 'erik.mitchell at gmail.com');> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>> 'tclug-list at mn-linux.org');> >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Erik K. Mitchell erik.mitchell at gmail.com On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 6:06 AM, Rick Engebretson wrote: > Seeing this on a linux discussion group reminds me why I'm glad to have > lived outside the Twin Cities for 30 years. > > They typecast everybody by race, color, creed, sex, origin and then call > everybody else a bigot. > > People in real world Minnesota worry about 20 below zero, snow, crops, > family, and yes, jobs. I've never seen prejudice against any of the declared > typecasts. But plenty of resentment toward the self appointed judge and > jury. > > This snow is welcome work. Maybe we pathetic bigots can feed you another > year. > > Erik Mitchell wrote: >> >> My remark was not directed at you, Robert. Just continuing on the end of >> the thread. >> >> On Sunday, February 10, 2013, Robert Nesius wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 12:41 AM, Erik >>> Mitchell>> 'erik.mitchell at gmail.com');> >>> >>>> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> In my career, I've had the good fortune of working with people from >>>> all over the world. India, China, Romania, Hungary, Ukraine, Canada, >>>> Latvia, Jamaica, as well as other countries I'm sure I'm forgetting. I >>>> consider my life richer for the friends I've made, and I've always >>>> felt bad when my friends have to deal with extra hassles to deal with >>>> immigration issues, just so they can live and work where they'd like >>>> to on this planet. I've felt ashamed when I see fellow Americans treat >>>> them badly, just because they were born elsewhere on the planet. >>>> >>>> I hope in my lifetime I'll have the chance to travel to other >>>> countries to live and work, and I hope to find people who are >>>> welcoming, rather than the type of people to bitch and moan about >>>> their lot in life, like I'm seeing on this thread. I think it's >>>> bigoted and pathetic, and I'm glad I don't work with you. >>>> >>>> That is all. >>>> >>>> -Erik >>>> >>> >>> How nice of you to make assumptions and pronouncements about what a bad >>> person I seem to be. If your comments aren't directed at me despite >>> responding to my post, my apologies. But with that said... >>> >>> I too have worked with people all over the world. I used to manage a >>> service across 50+ sites world-wide and worked with people on every >>> continent except Antartica. Without fail the people I worked with were >>> good people, and I enjoyed all of my interactions with them. My comments >>> were not intended to be mass indictments. However, that said, cheap >>> over-seas talent is not a magic bullet for lowering costs. I've met >>> multiple managers who've tried to move software development activities >>> overseas, and they could not attain high quality results until they >>> relocated people over there to supervise and manage and once they did >>> that >>> the value proposition evaporated. However, cheap labor in manufacturing >>> sectors has in fact yielded some big returns, as evidenced by trying to >>> buy >>> something Made in the USA in Walmart. >>> >>> However, that same quality risk exists for manufacturing processes >>> overseas. The company I work with now uses heavy-lifting devices to lift >>> heavy pre-cast concrete panels. We had one fail, which dropped a 20-ton >>> panel onto a crane (destroyed the crane, but the operator escaped >>> unscathed). When we tested the lifting devices we discovered a >>> non-trivial >>> percentage of them were failing. When we engaged the supplier and asked >>> why, we learned he'd stopped sourcing his steel from American mills and >>> was >>> bringing in steel from China that was certified by the supplier to be of >>> the same quality (but clearly wasn't). >>> >>> Switching back to labor as a resource though, before condemning anyone >>> with protectionist tendencies as bigoted and pathetic, I would suggest >>> you >>> try to find a job with your technical skills in Canada, Australia, and >>> most >>> European countries. What you'll find is that the governments of those >>> countries protect their labor markets, and the companies supposedly >>> burdened by the higher labor costs are still very successful. >>> >>> Regardless, this is an issue of public policy, not bigotry. >>> >>> Kind regards. >>> >>> -Rob >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 12:30 AM, Robert >>>> Nesius> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 1:36 PM, Andrew >>>>> Dahl> >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Interesting note regarding companies hiring overseas. My >>>> >>>> brother-in-law's >>>>>> >>>>>> employer has started to shift from hiring people in India to hiring >>>> >>>> people >>>>>> >>>>>> here, citing the ROI as the reason. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> A lot of companies have found the increased overhead/supervision to >>>>> make >>>>> sure the low-rent overseas talent produces offsets the savings by going >>>>> overseas. >>>>> >>>>> -Rob >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>> >>>> 'tclug-list at mn-linux.org');> >>>> >>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Erik K. Mitchell >>>> erik.mitchell at gmail.com>>> 'erik.mitchell at gmail.com');> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>> 'tclug-list at mn-linux.org');> >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Erik K. Mitchell erik.mitchell at gmail.com From susan.dawn.stewart at gmail.com Sun Feb 10 10:11:54 2013 From: susan.dawn.stewart at gmail.com (Susan) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 10:11:54 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0460A568-8A28-42A6-98A0-E0868030620D@gmail.com> I too have had the opportunity to work with many professional & highly competent immigrant workers. These are people I respect. If they are here for jobs which are truly difficult to fill with local talent, and often they are, I have no problems whatsoever. The unemployment rate in Minnesota in the I.T. Field is at 2-3%! My only objection is when what I would call entry-level (or nearly so) I.T. Positions, such as the job the guy from India I met was doing, are filled with foreign/imported contractors. When this guy I met was still in India he worked for Dell doing their consumer division hardware support, a department I directly interact with on regular basis in the course of doing my job. He is A+ and Dell Certified. Period. As am I. Period. I don't necessarily fault Sen. Klobuchar for introducing this legislation, there is no doubt a need for it. I take issue with Minnesota-based corporations who bypass hiring Minnesotans, when there is clearly Minnesotans who can fill the jobs, in the name of saving a few corporate dollars - because in the end they are bypassing growing & developing our local talent base & economy. I have a friend who left that sane company in Arden Hills, one of her complaints was they were shifting jobs overseas and bringing in workers from overseas - while laying off employees from here. Seeing the writing on the wall, she basically jumped before she was pushed. She moved to another major MN medical technology corporation with offices in Fridley and the northern suburbs. As a contractor, giving up employee status, but she has medical through her husband's employer, so she had that option. That corporation she moved to has responded to the current economy by closing down operations for a week or two a couple times a year - forced vacation time for their employees. My friend is a contractor so she doesn't even have PTO time to use during these forced downtime weeks. BUT, she says the CULTURE at this company (the work environment) is SO much better, she doesn't even care! The point her is employees RESENT when jobs are being taken away from their friends & co-worker to be shipped overseas, or given to immigrant contractors, because they, realistically, fear their job is next. When given the option to take a cut in pay/hours/benefits a loyal work staff will appreciate the fact they still have a job in an economy where their employer is struggling. That gratitude is reflected in the culture of the workplace. I was recently approached by a recruiter to put in an application for a Desktop Support contractor position with this same medical technology corporation in Fridley where my friend now works. It was tempting, the hourly pay was more than I'm currently earning... but I am at employee status with my current employer, with medical benefits, and I don't have a spouse with a benefits plan I could tag along on... MinnesotaCare is not an option if I'm leaving a position which pays at least 50% of the medical premium... If I did have a spouse w/benefits at his job I would have considered applying for that contractor position. I understand why they are looking to hire contractors, vs. employees, given the company's struggles (I actually know several other people at that company as well.). At the first company I referred to, the one in Arden Hills, they aren't even trying to find locally-based contractors! Jobs were going overseas or to immigrants who came here specifically to fill contractor positions & it is destroying the culture of that company. /rant From kjh at flyballdogs.com Sun Feb 10 10:14:51 2013 From: kjh at flyballdogs.com (Kathryn Hogg) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 10:14:51 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: <0460A568-8A28-42A6-98A0-E0868030620D@gmail.com> References: <0460A568-8A28-42A6-98A0-E0868030620D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1a6b32da2de9b76cab86227b8cb78ed8@flyballdogs.com> I think its ok to say Boston Scientific and Medtronic. -- Kathryn Hogg http://womensfooty.com From xcorvis at gmail.com Sun Feb 10 10:45:37 2013 From: xcorvis at gmail.com (Adam Nave) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 10:45:37 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] ssh updates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Don't modify the init script, use the config file /etc/sshd_conf. That won't be overwritten by updates, the new file comes in as sshd_conf.rpmnew. --Adam On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 7:51 AM, gregrwm wrote: > perhaps port my startup script to /etc/init and use respawn.. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sun Feb 10 10:58:18 2013 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 10:58:18 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: References: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> <1360338505.45055.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <20130208192132.GB31093@signbit.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Feb 2013, Erik Mitchell wrote: > In my career, I've had the good fortune of working with people from all > over the world. India, China, Romania, Hungary, Ukraine, Canada, Latvia, > Jamaica, as well as other countries I'm sure I'm forgetting. I consider > my life richer for the friends I've made, and I've always felt bad when > my friends have to deal with extra hassles to deal with immigration > issues, just so they can live and work where they'd like to on this > planet. I've felt ashamed when I see fellow Americans treat them badly, > just because they were born elsewhere on the planet. > > I hope in my lifetime I'll have the chance to travel to other countries > to live and work, and I hope to find people who are welcoming, rather > than the type of people to bitch and moan about their lot in life, like > I'm seeing on this thread. I think it's bigoted and pathetic, and I'm > glad I don't work with you. That's a nice sentiment, but the topic here was really about policy, not about the people. You might be talking about the kinds of hateful anti-immigrant statements we sometimes hear in this country and in other countries both now and at earlier times. I don't think I've heard any of that kind of talk here, but it seems like you are accusing us of it. I don't want to see a flood of immigrant workers coming into our country while unemployent is high. It doesn't make any sense, well, unless the goal is to create a labor glut, increase competition for jobs and cut worker pay. The problem isn't the immigrants, it's the policy makers. People who are doing well are happy to have immigrants, but people who are struggling and out of work may feel differently. They are the people who will fall for anti-immigrant, nationalist rhetoric and start attacking innocent people. In other words, widespread anti-immigrant bigotry is caused partly by bad policy. Like the liberal NY Times, I oppose the proposed massive increase in H-1B visas even though my wife is an immigrant (now US citizen) who came here on an H-1B. It's not an anti-immigrant position. Mike From tompoe at meltel.net Sun Feb 10 11:16:19 2013 From: tompoe at meltel.net (Tom Poe) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 11:16:19 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: References: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> <1360338505.45055.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <20130208192132.GB31093@signbit.net> <51178D4F.4000007@pinenet.com> Message-ID: <5117D5E3.5010906@meltel.net> On 02/10/2013 09:35 AM, Erik Mitchell wrote: > - - - There will always be jobs for people who work hard to make themselves useful. > Erik: Please don't insult the readers on this list with such a blatantly bigoted statement/opinion. When you treat the long-term unemployed as second class citizens, you are, in fact, a third class citizen. Tom From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Sun Feb 10 11:19:06 2013 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 11:19:06 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: References: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> <1360338505.45055.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <20130208192132.GB31093@signbit.net> Message-ID: I was responding to something I caught a whiff of on this thread, and you're right, not the actual topic of discussion. The anecdotes do involve individual people, however, and more often then not I think the immigration debate in this country has more to do with race and ethnicity than policy. You never hear complaints about Canadians coming across the border to steal peoples' jobs. Not sure whether I think the H1B program should be expanded or not. I think it should be easier to get a green card. Ultimately, I think people who want to work hard and help others should be more free to move about the world. -Erik On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Sun, 10 Feb 2013, Erik Mitchell wrote: > >> In my career, I've had the good fortune of working with people from all >> over the world. India, China, Romania, Hungary, Ukraine, Canada, Latvia, >> Jamaica, as well as other countries I'm sure I'm forgetting. I consider my >> life richer for the friends I've made, and I've always felt bad when my >> friends have to deal with extra hassles to deal with immigration issues, >> just so they can live and work where they'd like to on this planet. I've >> felt ashamed when I see fellow Americans treat them badly, just because they >> were born elsewhere on the planet. >> >> I hope in my lifetime I'll have the chance to travel to other countries to >> live and work, and I hope to find people who are welcoming, rather than the >> type of people to bitch and moan about their lot in life, like I'm seeing on >> this thread. I think it's bigoted and pathetic, and I'm glad I don't work >> with you. > > > > That's a nice sentiment, but the topic here was really about policy, not > about the people. You might be talking about the kinds of hateful > anti-immigrant statements we sometimes hear in this country and in other > countries both now and at earlier times. I don't think I've heard any of > that kind of talk here, but it seems like you are accusing us of it. > > I don't want to see a flood of immigrant workers coming into our country > while unemployent is high. It doesn't make any sense, well, unless the goal > is to create a labor glut, increase competition for jobs and cut worker pay. > The problem isn't the immigrants, it's the policy makers. > > People who are doing well are happy to have immigrants, but people who are > struggling and out of work may feel differently. They are the people who > will fall for anti-immigrant, nationalist rhetoric and start attacking > innocent people. In other words, widespread anti-immigrant bigotry is > caused partly by bad policy. > > Like the liberal NY Times, I oppose the proposed massive increase in H-1B > visas even though my wife is an immigrant (now US citizen) who came here on > an H-1B. It's not an anti-immigrant position. > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Erik K. Mitchell erik.mitchell at gmail.com From ryanjcole at me.com Sun Feb 10 11:53:36 2013 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 11:53:36 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Changing gears... anyone with Kermit experience? Message-ID: <5117DEA0.1000108@me.com> I'm trying to process FTP automation for my site to push out to our reselling website but I wanted to break it down to limit to files greater than 2MB... Here's my script: > #set quiet on > set ftp autologin off > ftp domain > ftp user user pass > ftp mkdir Basketball > ftp cd Basketball > ftp mkdir WBKB:\ Hamline\ vs.\ St.\ Benedict\ \(01-16-13\) > ftp cd WBKB:\ Hamline\ vs.\ St.\ Benedict\ \(01-16-13\) > *ftp mput /larger:800000 > /mount/archive/d3sports/photographers/ryan.coleman/basketball/2013/Proofs/130116-HMLN-CSB-W/*** > ***ftp bye > exit I'm not sure /ftp mput/ supports the /larger /switch but I've been trying to find a good scriptable FTP client to manage this process. I like *cmdftp* but it does not seem to support scripting. I know this script works regardless of filesize - so that's a plus - but I would love to make it work for only files over /nnn/ Bytes. From http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ftpscripts.html: > > Or suppose you want to send *all the files that are larger than one > million bytes* and whose names start with 'c' or 'w' except if the > file's name is core or its name ends with .log: > > ftp put /except:{{core}{*.log}} /larger:1000000 [cw]* > So if any of you have suggestions on scriptable FTP applications I'm listening... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.nelsen at slingshot-hci.com Sun Feb 10 11:59:52 2013 From: david.nelsen at slingshot-hci.com (David Nelsen) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 11:59:52 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: <5117D5E3.5010906@meltel.net> References: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> <1360338505.45055.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <20130208192132.GB31093@signbit.net> <51178D4F.4000007@pinenet.com> <5117D5E3.5010906@meltel.net> Message-ID: Am I missing a thread? I get Erik's point I don't pick up bigotry or any disparaging comments about the long-term unemployed. "please don't insult the readers" I need no one to speak for me- If I am insulted I can speak for myself. *Have the PC police infected TCLUG??* Erik we never met but I got your back and in my book you said nothing wrong. David Nelsen, BoTG Healthcare Technical Analyst Slingshot Healthcare Informatics Office 651.472.5678 Skype: slingshot.hci On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 11:16 AM, Tom Poe wrote: > On 02/10/2013 09:35 AM, Erik Mitchell wrote: > >> - - - There will always be jobs for people who work hard to make >> themselves useful. >> >> Erik: Please don't insult the readers on this list with such a > blatantly bigoted statement/opinion. When you treat the long-term > unemployed as second class citizens, you are, in fact, a third class > citizen. > Tom > > ______________________________**_________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From florin at iucha.net Sun Feb 10 12:14:36 2013 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 12:14:36 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: References: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> <1360338505.45055.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <20130208192132.GB31093@signbit.net> Message-ID: <20130210181436.GA6057@signbit.net> On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 12:35:04AM -0600, Robert Nesius wrote: > On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Florin Iucha wrote: > > Businesses will go whether the costs are lower, so they will either > > lower costs here or go to China, India, Vietnam in search for cheaper > > workforce. [snip] > > The same force propels people to migrate wherever more resources (or > > Maslow's "needs") are available for them and their families. > > > If you're implying the labor is as willing to migrate as the employer - I'm > not sure that's true. Not sure I understood your point correctly though. It's a matter of degree not kind. Why do you think are there people at all in the Americas (descendants of the former slaves excluded, of course)? Cheers, florin -- Beware of software written by optimists! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From florin at iucha.net Sun Feb 10 12:18:10 2013 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 12:18:10 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: References: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> <1360338505.45055.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <20130208192132.GB31093@signbit.net> Message-ID: <20130210181810.GB6057@signbit.net> On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 10:58:18AM -0600, Mike Miller wrote: > The problem isn't the immigrants, it's the > policy makers. Who chose those people to be 'policy makers'? Best, florin -- Beware of software written by optimists! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From eng at pinenet.com Sun Feb 10 11:26:54 2013 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 11:26:54 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] More changing gears;green jobs. Message-ID: <5117D85E.1060006@pinenet.com> I'll not make untrue claims, but I'm a Biophysicist, not farmer, and not a good one anymore. I did part of my grad work with Otto Schmitt, who invented digital electronics, was involved with Medtronics, etc. He was a good friend when nobody believed in the possibility of the internet. I've been in rural Minnesota and now find National Security policy mandates so-called advanced or cellulosic biofuels. The oil companies are complaining they don't know where to buy it. Linux has some remarkable programs that now design molecules. Avogadro is one, gromacs another. You might have seen screen-savers using "protein data bank" structures. With all the concern of climate and jobs, and oil depletion, Minnesota has opportunity like few other places. But it will take more courage than complaining to build a new industry. Maybe linux adventurers have some ideas to share. From jmore at starmind.org Sun Feb 10 11:55:28 2013 From: jmore at starmind.org (Josh More) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 11:55:28 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Changing gears... anyone with Kermit experience? In-Reply-To: <5117DEA0.1000108@me.com> References: <5117DEA0.1000108@me.com> Message-ID: The two times I've done this, I used ncftp (scriptable ftp client) or expect (when interfacing with non-scriptable ftp clients). Not sure if this is helpful to you. -Josh On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > I'm trying to process FTP automation for my site to push out to our > reselling website but I wanted to break it down to limit to files greater > than 2MB... > > Here's my script: > > #set quiet on > set ftp autologin off > ftp domain > ftp user user pass > ftp mkdir Basketball > ftp cd Basketball > ftp mkdir WBKB:\ Hamline\ vs.\ St.\ Benedict\ \(01-16-13\) > ftp cd WBKB:\ Hamline\ vs.\ St.\ Benedict\ \(01-16-13\) > ftp mput /larger:800000 > /mount/archive/d3sports/photographers/ryan.coleman/basketball/2013/Proofs/130116-HMLN-CSB-W/* > ftp bye > exit > > > I'm not sure ftp mput supports the larger switch but I've been trying to > find a good scriptable FTP client to manage this process. I like cmdftp but > it does not seem to support scripting. I know this script works regardless > of filesize - so that's a plus - but I would love to make it work for only > files over nnn Bytes. > > From http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ftpscripts.html: > > Or suppose you want to send all the files that are larger than one million > bytes and whose names start with 'c' or 'w' except if the file's name is > core or its name ends with .log: > > ftp put /except:{{core}{*.log}} /larger:1000000 [cw]* > > > So if any of you have suggestions on scriptable FTP applications I'm > listening... > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From gsker at skerbitz.org Sun Feb 10 13:03:36 2013 From: gsker at skerbitz.org (Gerry) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 13:03:36 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] rm -x In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Feb 2013, gregrwm wrote: > i am dumbfounded that, tho cp, du, and rsync have -x and find has -mount, rm > -r lacks such a feature, leaving us to either manually check for mounts within > a tree, script it, and/or suffer the loss, eg when forgetting to use said > script! > > my most recent forehead whack follows using /tmp/foo as a quickie mountpoint, > neglecting to specify ro, and a few days later wondering where the data went.. Actually the version of rm on my machine has --one-file-system (it should have -x assigned to that option IMO) Of course, that would imply using such an option which I could forget just as easily as forgetting I had temporarily mounted something. I think I will quit mounting things in /tmp. :-) Gerry -- Gerry Skerbitz gsker at skerbitz.org -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ryanjcole at me.com Sun Feb 10 13:12:08 2013 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 13:12:08 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] rm -x In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5117F108.2020606@me.com> Probably a good idea. I use /mount for mine... but my BSD system doesn't put anything in /mount/ so it's a blank slate for me. On 2/10/2013 1:03 PM, Gerry wrote: > Actually the version of rm on my machine has > --one-file-system > (it should have -x assigned to that option IMO) > > Of course, that would imply using such an option which I could forget > just as easily as forgetting I had temporarily mounted something. > I think I will quit mounting things in /tmp. :-) > > On Sun, 10 Feb 2013, gregrwm wrote: >> i am dumbfounded that, tho cp, du, and rsync have -x and find has >> -mount, rm >> -r lacks such a feature, leaving us to either manually check for >> mounts within >> a tree, script it, and/or suffer the loss, eg when forgetting to use >> said >> script! >> >> my most recent forehead whack follows using /tmp/foo as a quickie >> mountpoint, >> neglecting to specify ro, and a few days later wondering where the >> data went.. > From nesius at gmail.com Sun Feb 10 13:50:07 2013 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 13:50:07 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: References: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> <1360338505.45055.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <20130208192132.GB31093@signbit.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 4:17 AM, Erik Mitchell wrote: > My remark was not directed at you, Robert. Just continuing on the end of > the thread. > > Roger that - thanks for clarifying. And thanks for prompting me to better articulate my thoughts. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nesius at gmail.com Sun Feb 10 13:59:02 2013 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 13:59:02 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: <20130210181436.GA6057@signbit.net> References: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> <1360338505.45055.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <20130208192132.GB31093@signbit.net> <20130210181436.GA6057@signbit.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 12:35:04AM -0600, Robert Nesius wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Florin Iucha wrote: > > > > The same force propels people to migrate wherever more resources (or > > > Maslow's "needs") are available for them and their families. > > > > > If you're implying the labor is as willing to migrate as the employer - > I'm > > not sure that's true. Not sure I understood your point correctly though. > > It's a matter of degree not kind. Why do you think are there people > at all in the Americas (descendants of the former slaves excluded, of > course)? > > Gotcha. That's a good point. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ecrist at secure-computing.net Sun Feb 10 14:54:35 2013 From: ecrist at secure-computing.net (Eric Crist) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 14:54:35 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Changing gears... anyone with Kermit experience? In-Reply-To: References: <5117DEA0.1000108@me.com> Message-ID: <9D907A82-4E93-40B1-9787-AC3E80C6ADB6@secure-computing.net> Perl, anyone? ----- Eric F Crist On Feb 10, 2013, at 11:55:28, Josh More wrote: > The two times I've done this, I used ncftp (scriptable ftp client) or > expect (when interfacing with non-scriptable ftp clients). > > Not sure if this is helpful to you. > > -Josh > > On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> I'm trying to process FTP automation for my site to push out to our >> reselling website but I wanted to break it down to limit to files greater >> than 2MB... >> >> Here's my script: >> >> #set quiet on >> set ftp autologin off >> ftp domain >> ftp user user pass >> ftp mkdir Basketball >> ftp cd Basketball >> ftp mkdir WBKB:\ Hamline\ vs.\ St.\ Benedict\ \(01-16-13\) >> ftp cd WBKB:\ Hamline\ vs.\ St.\ Benedict\ \(01-16-13\) >> ftp mput /larger:800000 >> /mount/archive/d3sports/photographers/ryan.coleman/basketball/2013/Proofs/130116-HMLN-CSB-W/* >> ftp bye >> exit >> >> >> I'm not sure ftp mput supports the larger switch but I've been trying to >> find a good scriptable FTP client to manage this process. I like cmdftp but >> it does not seem to support scripting. I know this script works regardless >> of filesize - so that's a plus - but I would love to make it work for only >> files over nnn Bytes. >> >> From http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ftpscripts.html: >> >> Or suppose you want to send all the files that are larger than one million >> bytes and whose names start with 'c' or 'w' except if the file's name is >> core or its name ends with .log: >> >> ftp put /except:{{core}{*.log}} /larger:1000000 [cw]* >> >> >> So if any of you have suggestions on scriptable FTP applications I'm >> listening... >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From stuporglue at gmail.com Sun Feb 10 16:32:37 2013 From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 16:32:37 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Changing gears... anyone with Kermit experience? In-Reply-To: <9D907A82-4E93-40B1-9787-AC3E80C6ADB6@secure-computing.net> References: <5117DEA0.1000108@me.com> <9D907A82-4E93-40B1-9787-AC3E80C6ADB6@secure-computing.net> Message-ID: Have you considered rsync (which would only transfer changed files) or using find/xargs? Rsync has a --min-size flag if you can use that instead You could use any ftp client and the find command. Here's an example looking for all files larger than 2M in /home and listing them with ls: m at m:~$ find /home -type f -size +2M -print0 | xargs -0 ls -lh -- Michael Moore On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 2:54 PM, Eric Crist wrote: > Perl, anyone? > > ----- > Eric F Crist > > > > On Feb 10, 2013, at 11:55:28, Josh More wrote: > >> The two times I've done this, I used ncftp (scriptable ftp client) or >> expect (when interfacing with non-scriptable ftp clients). >> >> Not sure if this is helpful to you. >> >> -Josh >> >> On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>> I'm trying to process FTP automation for my site to push out to our >>> reselling website but I wanted to break it down to limit to files greater >>> than 2MB... >>> >>> Here's my script: >>> >>> #set quiet on >>> set ftp autologin off >>> ftp domain >>> ftp user user pass >>> ftp mkdir Basketball >>> ftp cd Basketball >>> ftp mkdir WBKB:\ Hamline\ vs.\ St.\ Benedict\ \(01-16-13\) >>> ftp cd WBKB:\ Hamline\ vs.\ St.\ Benedict\ \(01-16-13\) >>> ftp mput /larger:800000 >>> /mount/archive/d3sports/photographers/ryan.coleman/basketball/2013/Proofs/130116-HMLN-CSB-W/* >>> ftp bye >>> exit >>> >>> >>> I'm not sure ftp mput supports the larger switch but I've been trying to >>> find a good scriptable FTP client to manage this process. I like cmdftp but >>> it does not seem to support scripting. I know this script works regardless >>> of filesize - so that's a plus - but I would love to make it work for only >>> files over nnn Bytes. >>> >>> From http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ftpscripts.html: >>> >>> Or suppose you want to send all the files that are larger than one million >>> bytes and whose names start with 'c' or 'w' except if the file's name is >>> core or its name ends with .log: >>> >>> ftp put /except:{{core}{*.log}} /larger:1000000 [cw]* >>> >>> >>> So if any of you have suggestions on scriptable FTP applications I'm >>> listening... >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Support the digitization of the Iron County Miner newspaper archives Like this project on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/digitizeicm From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Sun Feb 10 17:07:44 2013 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 17:07:44 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Changing gears... anyone with Kermit experience? In-Reply-To: <5117DEA0.1000108@me.com> References: <5117DEA0.1000108@me.com> Message-ID: Not sure if it does what you are looking for, but check out lftp. http://lftp.yar.ru/ -Erik On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > I'm trying to process FTP automation for my site to push out to our > reselling website but I wanted to break it down to limit to files greater > than 2MB... > > Here's my script: > > #set quiet on > set ftp autologin off > ftp domain > ftp user user pass > ftp mkdir Basketball > ftp cd Basketball > ftp mkdir WBKB:\ Hamline\ vs.\ St.\ Benedict\ \(01-16-13\) > ftp cd WBKB:\ Hamline\ vs.\ St.\ Benedict\ \(01-16-13\) > ftp mput /larger:800000 > /mount/archive/d3sports/photographers/ryan.coleman/basketball/2013/Proofs/130116-HMLN-CSB-W/* > ftp bye > exit > > > I'm not sure ftp mput supports the larger switch but I've been trying to > find a good scriptable FTP client to manage this process. I like cmdftp but > it does not seem to support scripting. I know this script works regardless > of filesize - so that's a plus - but I would love to make it work for only > files over nnn Bytes. > > From http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ftpscripts.html: > > Or suppose you want to send all the files that are larger than one million > bytes and whose names start with 'c' or 'w' except if the file's name is > core or its name ends with .log: > > ftp put /except:{{core}{*.log}} /larger:1000000 [cw]* > > > So if any of you have suggestions on scriptable FTP applications I'm > listening... > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Erik K. Mitchell erik.mitchell at gmail.com From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Sun Feb 10 22:14:21 2013 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 22:14:21 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: References: <5114fd6c.181d.b38ffb70.794e9c8a@rrt.net> <1360338505.45055.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <20130208192132.GB31093@signbit.net> <51178D4F.4000007@pinenet.com> <5117D5E3.5010906@meltel.net> Message-ID: David Nelsen cried from the depths of the abyss... > ? Have the PC police infected TCLUG?? ? Not exactly the police, but this type of thing pops to the surface every now & then. Usually inspired by politics and religion. Sometimes people become so upset the denounce the list & leave. It's a shame. From susan.dawn.stewart at gmail.com Mon Feb 11 05:48:26 2013 From: susan.dawn.stewart at gmail.com (Susan) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 05:48:26 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <66FC9854-6F62-4FE2-BBAA-82C1B73B4773@gmail.com> I have no problem whatsoever with H-1B immigrant workers, when they are truly filling roles which are difficult to fill, in MN the unemployment rate in the I.T. Field has been 2-3% as of late, so there is a need. My problem is not with the immigrants whatsoever! There is a totally legit need for H-1B Visa workers in certain skill sets & I personally enjoy & welcome the diversity. Seriously!!! I'm sorry if my comments earlier were misconstrued. My issue is with the corporations who use H-1B visa contractors for jobs which really shouldn't be that hard to fill with local talent. A Tier 1 Desktop Support position isn't, in my opinion, such a highly skilled position that it cannot be filled locally. Some corporation are making bottom line decisions to cut costs by systematically moving jobs overseas and/or importing contractors. And they use H-1B Visas as a loophole to accomplish that. From david.nelsen at slingshot-hci.com Mon Feb 11 07:24:24 2013 From: david.nelsen at slingshot-hci.com (David Nelsen) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 07:24:24 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: <66FC9854-6F62-4FE2-BBAA-82C1B73B4773@gmail.com> References: <66FC9854-6F62-4FE2-BBAA-82C1B73B4773@gmail.com> Message-ID: Maybe it is not the skill level that is hard to recruit but rather the work ethic and retention. No facts to back ths up. Just a hunch. I agree with Sue- If a business is hiring H1B's for entry level work and passing up local work force candidates then I have issue with this. I do think part of the equation as well is maybe larger corporations do not want to put the time, energy, and resources in quality recruitment, professional development and mentoring. They have a position to fill and they need a warm body with skills. If so I think this is too bad. I admire organizations that invest in workforce development. David Nelsen, BoTG Healthcare Technical Analyst Slingshot Healthcare Informatics Office 651.472.5678 Skype: slingshot.hci On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 5:48 AM, Susan wrote: > I have no problem whatsoever with H-1B immigrant workers, when they are > truly filling roles which are difficult to fill, in MN the unemployment > rate in the I.T. Field has been 2-3% as of late, so there is a need. > > My problem is not with the immigrants whatsoever! There is a totally legit > need for H-1B Visa workers in certain skill sets & I personally enjoy & > welcome the diversity. Seriously!!! I'm sorry if my comments earlier were > misconstrued. > > My issue is with the corporations who use H-1B visa contractors for jobs > which really shouldn't be that hard to fill with local talent. A Tier 1 > Desktop Support position isn't, in my opinion, such a highly skilled > position that it cannot be filled locally. > > Some corporation are making bottom line decisions to cut costs by > systematically moving jobs overseas and/or importing contractors. And they > use H-1B Visas as a loophole to accomplish that. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Mon Feb 11 13:45:59 2013 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 13:45:59 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] distro recommendation Message-ID: Jeremy MountainJohnson: > > > Arch Linux is pretty minimal; you'll know exactly what you set up ;-) > > I've installed this and am liking it. The packages that were available on Debian were older than what I wanted. And I switched to Arch Linux on my server also. I was amazed when I did an ls on /etc. On Fedora that listing takes up more than one full window but on Arch it took half of the window. There are about 60 fewer processes running on my server under Arch than there were under Fedora. I'm happy to have made this move. Thanks. -- Brian Wood Ebenezer Enterprises - in G-d we trust. http://webEbenezer.net (651) 251-9384 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Feb 11 15:54:29 2013 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 15:54:29 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Pending H-1B Legislation In-Reply-To: References: <66FC9854-6F62-4FE2-BBAA-82C1B73B4773@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Feb 2013, David Nelsen wrote: > Maybe it is not the skill level that is hard to recruit but rather the > work ethic and retention. No facts to back ths up. Just a hunch. I > agree with Sue- If a business is hiring H1B's for entry level work and > passing up local work force candidates then I have issue with this. I > do think part of the equation as well is maybe larger corporations do > not want to put the time, energy, and resources in quality recruitment, > professional development and mentoring. They have a position to fill > and they need a warm body with skills. If so I think this is too bad. > I admire organizations that invest in workforce development. For me the issue is about pay. Normally, salary is decided by a free market with skilled people choosing higher-paying professions and companies then having to pay well to get such highly-skilled workers. Of course, no one wants to pay anyone for anything -- everyone always wants to pay less and keep more profit for himself. There's nothing wrong with that, of course. So people pay only what they have to pay to get the good workers and get the job done. I am arguing that companies want to hire H-1B workers because they don't want to pay the going rate to get a good US worker. Someone asked why we aren't complaining about Canadians taking our jobs. We seem only to complain about non-English-speaking, non-white people. Is that racism? First, are Canadians taking our jobs? Maybe they are, but I doubt it and I haven't heard that they are doing so. The reason is probably that the jobs for which companies want to hire H-1B workers are paying a sub-standard wage that can't compete with Canadian wages. Second, the fact that many/most H-1B workers are coming from poorer countries should suggest that the problem is not lack of workers in the US, it is really about paying less. People from countries with a lot of poverty can be hired for lower wages in the US. Third, I think I hear more complaints about Mexican workers than any others, but you won't be seeing many Mexican workers on H-1B visas -- they mostly are H-2A, H-2B or undocumented. (H-1B is for "Persons in Specialty Occupation which requires the theoretical and practical application of a body of highly specialized knowledge requiring completion of a specific course of higher education.") I'm all for immigration (like I said, my wife immigrated from South America on H-1B and became a US citizen), but I'm opposed to manipulations of the labor market that are designed to make money for corporations and the rich at the expense of our middle class. Remember how supply and demand work. More workers come in, there's more supply to meet the demand and the price of labor falls. The paychecks of workers then drop -- not just for H-1B workers, but for all workers with the skills for that set of jobs. I should add that I have hired an H-1B worker, he did a great job and is a friend. I have tried to help him get permanent residency. The situation was one where I was not allowed to pay more than a certain amount for a worker and he was the only person who applied who knew how to do the work. That also happened before I figured out more about the big picture of supply/demand, H-1B visas and how big business manipulates government. Mike From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Tue Feb 12 13:47:07 2013 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 13:47:07 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] rm -x In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> i am dumbfounded that, tho cp, du, and rsync have -x and find has -mount, >> rm -r lacks such a feature > > Actually the version of rm on my machine has --one-file-system thanks, sure enough it appeared between rhel5 and rhel6, surprisingly recent. also surprising, lots (eg virtualization platforms) hadn't managed to migrate off rhel5 yet last i checked. From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Wed Feb 13 13:25:43 2013 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 13:25:43 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] ssh updates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Don't modify the init script, use the config file /etc/sshd_conf. That won't > be overwritten by updates, the new file comes in as sshd_conf.rpmnew. that's common to any/all instances of sshd. it would be nice a single instance of sshd could listen on 2 ports with distinct configurations for each, but i'm not aware that it can. implementing a second instance as /etc/init/sshd1.conf, with respawn, seems to work. From jay at slushpupie.com Wed Feb 13 21:22:00 2013 From: jay at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 21:22:00 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] ssh updates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Feb 10, 2013 7:43 AM, "gregrwm" wrote: > > i've restricted port 22 to a chosen few IP's, and run an additional ssh on another port that has different restrictions. i'd love if i could do both with just one instance, did i miss something? > > the problem with multiple instances is with yum updates. at first i had a customized /etc/init.d/sshd that started both instances, but every ssh update would replace it. now i have a second start script for the second port, but still, ssh updates kill both and only restart port 22. what is a better solution? > > Take a look at the "match" configuration option. Perhaps you can do what you need in one instance with that? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Nicholas.Korsakov at mwcia.org Thu Feb 14 09:31:51 2013 From: Nicholas.Korsakov at mwcia.org (Nicholas Korsakov) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 09:31:51 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Best light distros for ancient laptops. Message-ID: <3BC76BCFB10A954D97C6751255E2D0DA428610B523@condor.mwcia.org> I have an old laptop which can barely run Mint Linux (which I really like). When I installed the latest version of Mint, I could not find a readily find a driver for my (relatively new) wireless printer. I can probably work though this, but it is a pain. Also, I am getting weird imagery when booting...lots of vertical lines for a while and text about my batter life (it's plugged in). Can you recommend a light distro that would run better on an old, creaky laptop? Some desired capabilities.... 1. Relatively easy to set up with a wireless printer (Brother) 2. Has LibreOffice, or is relatively easy to download that package. I love using the spreadsheet (Calc). 3. Beautiful interface 4. Lots of free software is available for it with a great support community. I have run MacPup before and liked it too, but it seemed hard for me to set up my printer...and it was a bit more limited on apps. Thank you. -- Nicholas MWCIA |7701 France Ave S Ste 450 Mpls MN 55435|952.897.6426 |nicholas.korsakov at mwcia.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joel.longanecker at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 09:48:21 2013 From: joel.longanecker at gmail.com (Joel Longanecker) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 09:48:21 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Best light distros for ancient laptops. In-Reply-To: <3BC76BCFB10A954D97C6751255E2D0DA428610B523@condor.mwcia.org> References: <3BC76BCFB10A954D97C6751255E2D0DA428610B523@condor.mwcia.org> Message-ID: As far as performance is concerned try installing xfce or lxde. You want to keep mint for everything else. As for the wireless printer have you tried the generic postscript driver? On Feb 14, 2013 9:33 AM, "Nicholas Korsakov" wrote: > I have an old laptop which can barely run Mint Linux (which I really > like).**** > > When I installed the latest version of Mint, I could not find a readily > find a driver for my (relatively new) wireless printer.**** > > I can probably work though this, but it is a pain. **** > > Also, I am getting weird imagery when booting?lots of vertical lines for a > while and text about my batter life (it?s plugged in).**** > > ** ** > > Can you recommend a light distro that would run better on an old, creaky > laptop?**** > > Some desired capabilities?.**** > > **1. **Relatively easy to set up with a wireless printer (Brother)** > ** > > **2. **Has LibreOffice, or is relatively easy to download that > package. I love using the spreadsheet (Calc).**** > > **3. **Beautiful interface**** > > **4. **Lots of free software is available for it with a great > support community.**** > > ** ** > > I have run MacPup before and liked it too, but it seemed hard for me to > set up my printer?and it was a bit more limited on apps.**** > > ** ** > > Thank you.**** > > -- Nicholas**** > > ** ** > > *MWCIA |7701 France Ave S Ste 450 Mpls MN 55435|952.897.6426 | > nicholas.korsakov at mwcia.org***** > > ** ** > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Nicholas.Korsakov at mwcia.org Thu Feb 14 09:54:43 2013 From: Nicholas.Korsakov at mwcia.org (Nicholas Korsakov) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 09:54:43 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Best light distros for ancient laptops. Message-ID: <3BC76BCFB10A954D97C6751255E2D0DA428610B539@condor.mwcia.org> That is excellent advice. I am using Mint Linux with KDE. I read that KDE was great because more apps were tailored to run well with it - however, it was more resource intensive. Of the desktop environments you mentioned (xfce or lxde) which do you like more? -- Nicholas MWCIA |7701 France Ave S Ste 450 Mpls MN 55435|952.897.6426 |nicholas.korsakov at mwcia.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joel.longanecker at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 09:56:28 2013 From: joel.longanecker at gmail.com (Joel Longanecker) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 09:56:28 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Best light distros for ancient laptops. In-Reply-To: <3BC76BCFB10A954D97C6751255E2D0DA428610B539@condor.mwcia.org> References: <3BC76BCFB10A954D97C6751255E2D0DA428610B539@condor.mwcia.org> Message-ID: I really really like lxde. Its the essential desktop experience. On Feb 14, 2013 9:54 AM, "Nicholas Korsakov" wrote: > That is excellent advice. I am using Mint Linux with KDE. I read that > KDE was great because more apps were tailored to run well with it ? > however, it was more resource intensive. Of the desktop environments you > mentioned (xfce or lxde) which do you like more?**** > > -- Nicholas**** > > *MWCIA |7701 France Ave S Ste 450 Mpls MN 55435|952.897.6426 | > nicholas.korsakov at mwcia.org***** > > ** ** > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuporglue at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 10:02:55 2013 From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 10:02:55 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Best light distros for ancient laptops. In-Reply-To: <3BC76BCFB10A954D97C6751255E2D0DA428610B539@condor.mwcia.org> References: <3BC76BCFB10A954D97C6751255E2D0DA428610B539@condor.mwcia.org> Message-ID: I like xfce better than lxde. I think it's got more features than lxde, though lxde seemed lighter weight. I use xfce (Xubuntu, actually) on an eeepc 701 which has a 630Mhz celeron processor and 1G of RAM. It runs well enough that I brought it on vacation with me instead of my full-sized thinkpad. -- Michael Moore On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 9:54 AM, Nicholas Korsakov wrote: > That is excellent advice. I am using Mint Linux with KDE. I read that KDE > was great because more apps were tailored to run well with it ? however, it > was more resource intensive. Of the desktop environments you mentioned (xfce > or lxde) which do you like more? > > -- Nicholas > > MWCIA |7701 France Ave S Ste 450 Mpls MN 55435|952.897.6426 > |nicholas.korsakov at mwcia.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Support the digitization of the Iron County Miner newspaper archives Like this project on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/digitizeicm From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Thu Feb 14 10:57:31 2013 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 10:57:31 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] ssh updates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> i've restricted port 22 to a chosen few IP's, and run an additional ssh on >> another port that has different restrictions. i'd love if i could do both >> with just one instance, did i miss something? >> >> the problem with multiple instances is with yum updates. at first i had a >> customized /etc/init.d/sshd that started both instances, but every ssh >> update would replace it. now i have a second start script for the second >> port, but still, ssh updates kill both and only restart port 22. what is a >> better solution? > > Take a look at the "match" configuration option. Perhaps you can do what you > need in one instance with that? now that you mention it, perhaps so. matching by port isn't available, so on first look i passed it by, tho perhaps i could manage by matching on the address.. From chrome at real-time.com Thu Feb 14 11:15:12 2013 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 12:15:12 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] ssh updates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130214171512.GM532@real-time.com> On 02/14 10:57 , gregrwm wrote: > >> the problem with multiple instances is with yum updates. at first i had a > >> customized /etc/init.d/sshd that started both instances, but every ssh > >> update would replace it. now i have a second start script for the second > >> port, but still, ssh updates kill both and only restart port 22. what is a > >> better solution? Would running a different ssh daemon like dropbear solve your problem? I've run dropbear on one port, and regular sshd on another port, when I needed two ssh daemons on the same host and same IP address. -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From max at bernsteinforpresident.com Thu Feb 14 11:31:41 2013 From: max at bernsteinforpresident.com (Max Shinn) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 11:31:41 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Best light distros for ancient laptops. In-Reply-To: References: <3BC76BCFB10A954D97C6751255E2D0DA428610B539@condor.mwcia.org> Message-ID: What model number is the Brother printer? I have gotten various *buntu spinoffs to work with three different Brother printers by using the driver for a closely-related printer. -Max From Nicholas.Korsakov at mwcia.org Thu Feb 14 12:08:22 2013 From: Nicholas.Korsakov at mwcia.org (Nicholas Korsakov) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 12:08:22 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Best light distros for ancient laptops. Message-ID: <3BC76BCFB10A954D97C6751255E2D0DA428610B5C5@condor.mwcia.org> My Brother printer model is: MFC 7860DW. I currently have Mint Linux 14 (Nadia), with KDE. MWCIA |7701 France Ave S Ste 450 Mpls MN 55435|952.897.6426 |nicholas.korsakov at mwcia.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From max at bernsteinforpresident.com Thu Feb 14 12:17:02 2013 From: max at bernsteinforpresident.com (Max Shinn) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 12:17:02 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Best light distros for ancient laptops. In-Reply-To: <3BC76BCFB10A954D97C6751255E2D0DA428610B5C5@condor.mwcia.org> References: <3BC76BCFB10A954D97C6751255E2D0DA428610B5C5@condor.mwcia.org> Message-ID: On 2/14/13, Nicholas Korsakov wrote: > My Brother printer model is: MFC 7860DW. > I currently have Mint Linux 14 (Nadia), with KDE. I don't have experience with that model in particular, however one thing you might want to watch out for is a "feature" in KDE4 dealing with setting up printers. After spending hours trying to set up a printer in KDE4 a few weeks ago without success, I noticed this checkbox labeled something along the lines of "Send print jobs to this printer" that was disabled by default. Why this would be disabled by default is beyond me, however checking it made the printer work. Just something to try if the postscript driver doesn't work. -- Max Shinn max at BernsteinForPresident.com www.BernsteinForPresident.com From bgilbertson at rrt.net Thu Feb 14 13:21:50 2013 From: bgilbertson at rrt.net (Robert Gilbertson) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:21:50 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Best light distros for ancient laptops. Message-ID: <511d394e.181d.b58b2b70.2bc5cd84@rrt.net> When I set up my Brother MFC-J625DW multifunction wireless I used the Linux driver from Brother's site for that model. Your model is listed. Pick LPR or cups driver and .deb or .rpm package. I used cups. Found I needed to set URI to socket://printer_ipaddr. Once I figured it out it works fine. Haven't spent the time to try get the scanner working over wireless yet. On Thursday 14/02/2013 at 12:08 pm, Nicholas Korsakov wrote: > > > My Brother printer model is: MFC 7860DW. > I currently have Mint Linux 14 (Nadia), with KDE. > MWCIA |7701 France Ave S Ste 450 Mpls MN 55435|952.897.6426 > |nicholas.korsakov at mwcia.org > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j at packetgod.com Thu Feb 14 13:48:23 2013 From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:48:23 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Best light distros for ancient laptops. In-Reply-To: <511d394e.181d.b58b2b70.2bc5cd84@rrt.net> References: <511d394e.181d.b58b2b70.2bc5cd84@rrt.net> Message-ID: I like Bohdi Linux on my old laptops (http://www.bodhilinux.com/) it uses Enlightenment and is incredibly light and easy to use. No clue on if it will support the printer out of the box though. It is Debian/Ubuntu based at its roots though. On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Robert Gilbertson wrote: > When I set up my Brother MFC-J625DW multifunction wireless I used the > Linux driver from Brother's site for that model. > Your model is listed. Pick LPR or cups driver and .deb or .rpm package. > I used cups. Found I needed to set URI to socket://printer_ipaddr. Once > I figured it out it works fine. > > Haven't spent the time to try get the scanner working over wireless yet. > > On Thursday 14/02/2013 at 12:08 pm, Nicholas Korsakov wrote: > > My Brother printer model is: MFC 7860DW. **** > > I currently have Mint Linux 14 (Nadia), with KDE.**** > > *MWCIA |7701 France Ave S Ste 450 Mpls MN 55435|952.897.6426 | > nicholas.korsakov at mwcia.org***** > > ** ** > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joel.longanecker at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 14:00:38 2013 From: joel.longanecker at gmail.com (Joel Longanecker) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 14:00:38 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Best light distros for ancient laptops. In-Reply-To: References: <511d394e.181d.b58b2b70.2bc5cd84@rrt.net> Message-ID: I can't say that I've ever seen anybody actually recommend Bodhi outside of a small number of vocal users on Reddit (OK, mostly just the maintainer). Though I have a feeling that Bodhi running KDE instead of e17 would be just as slow as Linux Mint running KDE. On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 1:48 PM, J Cruit wrote: > I like Bohdi Linux on my old laptops (http://www.bodhilinux.com/) it uses > Enlightenment and is incredibly light and easy to use. No clue on if it > will support the printer out of the box though. It is Debian/Ubuntu based > at its roots though. > > > On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Robert Gilbertson wrote: > >> When I set up my Brother MFC-J625DW multifunction wireless I used the >> Linux driver from Brother's site for that model. >> Your model is listed. Pick LPR or cups driver and .deb or .rpm package. >> I used cups. Found I needed to set URI to socket://printer_ipaddr. Once >> I figured it out it works fine. >> >> Haven't spent the time to try get the scanner working over wireless yet. >> >> On Thursday 14/02/2013 at 12:08 pm, Nicholas Korsakov wrote: >> >> My Brother printer model is: MFC 7860DW. **** >> >> I currently have Mint Linux 14 (Nadia), with KDE.**** >> >> *MWCIA |7701 France Ave S Ste 450 Mpls MN 55435|952.897.6426 | >> nicholas.korsakov at mwcia.org***** >> >> ** ** >> _______________________________________________ >> >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dylan.miracle at gmail.com Thu Feb 14 14:35:09 2013 From: dylan.miracle at gmail.com (Dylan Miracle) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 14:35:09 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Best light distros for ancient laptops. In-Reply-To: References: <511d394e.181d.b58b2b70.2bc5cd84@rrt.net> Message-ID: I have crunchbang on an old laptop. Very nice lightweight distro On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 2:00 PM, Joel Longanecker < joel.longanecker at gmail.com> wrote: > I can't say that I've ever seen anybody actually recommend Bodhi outside > of a small number of vocal users on Reddit (OK, mostly just the > maintainer). Though I have a feeling that Bodhi running KDE instead of e17 > would be just as slow as Linux Mint running KDE. > > > On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 1:48 PM, J Cruit wrote: > >> I like Bohdi Linux on my old laptops (http://www.bodhilinux.com/) it >> uses Enlightenment and is incredibly light and easy to use. No clue on if >> it will support the printer out of the box though. It is Debian/Ubuntu >> based at its roots though. >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Robert Gilbertson wrote: >> >>> When I set up my Brother MFC-J625DW multifunction wireless I used the >>> Linux driver from Brother's site for that model. >>> Your model is listed. Pick LPR or cups driver and .deb or .rpm package. >>> I used cups. Found I needed to set URI to socket://printer_ipaddr. >>> Once I figured it out it works fine. >>> >>> Haven't spent the time to try get the scanner working over wireless yet. >>> >>> On Thursday 14/02/2013 at 12:08 pm, Nicholas Korsakov wrote: >>> >>> My Brother printer model is: MFC 7860DW. **** >>> >>> I currently have Mint Linux 14 (Nadia), with KDE.**** >>> >>> *MWCIA |7701 France Ave S Ste 450 Mpls MN 55435|952.897.6426 | >>> nicholas.korsakov at mwcia.org***** >>> >>> ** ** >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From galanolwe at yahoo.com Fri Feb 15 08:19:34 2013 From: galanolwe at yahoo.com (Olwe Bottorff) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 06:19:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a tablet? Message-ID: <1360937974.11434.YahooMailNeo@web160304.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I'm confused about having linux on a tablet. I've seen instructions for how to "root" your, say, Nexus 10. What does this do? I'd like to put a linux on a tablet and be able to use Emacs (for org-mode!) and a terminal. Does "rooting" a tablet give me some sort of linux with touch screen capabilities? Or is it just a regular linux on a laptop from that point? O GM,MN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wdtj at yahoo.com Fri Feb 15 08:33:42 2013 From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 06:33:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a tablet? In-Reply-To: <1360937974.11434.YahooMailNeo@web160304.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1360937974.11434.YahooMailNeo@web160304.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1360938822.32302.YahooMailNeo@web121501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> At least with Android, you already have Linux on your tablet.? Android uses Linux as it's base operating system then adds a Java/Native mix of user interface on top of that.? The confusion comes in that many stock Android installations prevent or limit your access to the Linux portions.? There are Apps in the Google Play store that will get you a Linux console, but it's usually pretty limited in it's privileges. "Rooting" your tablet/phone allows you to have root access to this Linux.? Basically you are replacing the manufactures OS with one that has been built from the open source, and allows you superuser access.?? --- Wayne Johnson,???????????? | There are two kinds of people: Those 3943 Penn Ave. N.????????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done," Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, (612) 522-7003???????????? | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis >________________________________ > From: Olwe Bottorff >To: TCLUG Mailing List >Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 8:19 AM >Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a tablet? > > >I'm confused about having linux on a tablet. I've seen instructions for how to "root" your, say, Nexus 10. What does this do? I'd like to put a linux on a tablet and be able to use Emacs (for org-mode!) and a terminal. Does "rooting" a tablet give me some sort of linux with touch screen capabilities? Or is it just a regular linux on a laptop from that point? > > >O >GM,MN >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list at mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wdtj at yahoo.com Fri Feb 15 08:33:42 2013 From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 06:33:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a tablet? In-Reply-To: <1360937974.11434.YahooMailNeo@web160304.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1360937974.11434.YahooMailNeo@web160304.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1360938822.32302.YahooMailNeo@web121501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> At least with Android, you already have Linux on your tablet.? Android uses Linux as it's base operating system then adds a Java/Native mix of user interface on top of that.? The confusion comes in that many stock Android installations prevent or limit your access to the Linux portions.? There are Apps in the Google Play store that will get you a Linux console, but it's usually pretty limited in it's privileges. "Rooting" your tablet/phone allows you to have root access to this Linux.? Basically you are replacing the manufactures OS with one that has been built from the open source, and allows you superuser access.?? --- Wayne Johnson,???????????? | There are two kinds of people: Those 3943 Penn Ave. N.????????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done," Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, (612) 522-7003???????????? | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis >________________________________ > From: Olwe Bottorff >To: TCLUG Mailing List >Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 8:19 AM >Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a tablet? > > >I'm confused about having linux on a tablet. I've seen instructions for how to "root" your, say, Nexus 10. What does this do? I'd like to put a linux on a tablet and be able to use Emacs (for org-mode!) and a terminal. Does "rooting" a tablet give me some sort of linux with touch screen capabilities? Or is it just a regular linux on a laptop from that point? > > >O >GM,MN >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list at mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Fri Feb 15 09:34:03 2013 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 09:34:03 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a tablet? In-Reply-To: <1360938822.32302.YahooMailNeo@web121501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1360937974.11434.YahooMailNeo@web160304.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1360938822.32302.YahooMailNeo@web121501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: There are terminal apps you can install, and there may even be emacs you can install without rooting. That said, there are several distrobutions of a more standard Linux that you can install if you have root. They basically run as an application in the background, and you can VNC into them for a touch screen linux experience. It's much like using VMware on a PC -- but since the Android kernel is a Linux kernel, the guest Linux installs can share the running kernel. It behaves to the user like a VMware install, but acts more like a chroot with GUI. http://linuxonandroid.org/ for more information. To confuse the issue, while you can install Ubuntu that way, Ubuntu for Android is an entirely different beast -- Cannoical is creating a Ubuntu version that will run on android, and is geared towards giving a Linux experience when the device is plugged into peripherals. My impression was it was to be installed by the OEM, and would trigger a Linux desktop to start when plugged into a webtop (http://tinyurl.com/af6t4cf image for the curious) -- but it was my impression that that hardware was dying... Jeff On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 8:33 AM, Wayne Johnson wrote: > At least with Android, you already have Linux on your tablet. Android > uses Linux as it's base operating system then adds a Java/Native mix of > user interface on top of that. The confusion comes in that many stock > Android installations prevent or limit your access to the Linux portions. > There are Apps in the Google Play store that will get you a Linux console, > but it's usually pretty limited in it's privileges. > > "Rooting" your tablet/phone allows you to have root access to this Linux. > Basically you are replacing the manufactures OS with one that has been > built from the open source, and allows you superuser access. > > --- > Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those > 3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," > Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, > (612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Olwe Bottorff > *To:* TCLUG Mailing List > *Sent:* Friday, February 15, 2013 8:19 AM > *Subject:* [tclug-list] Linux on a tablet? > > I'm confused about having linux on a tablet. I've seen instructions for > how to "root" your, say, Nexus 10. What does this do? I'd like to put a > linux on a tablet and be able to use Emacs (for org-mode!) and a terminal. > Does "rooting" a tablet give me some sort of linux with touch screen > capabilities? Or is it just a regular linux on a laptop from that point? > > O > GM,MN > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From florin at iucha.net Fri Feb 15 10:13:39 2013 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 10:13:39 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a tablet? In-Reply-To: <1360937974.11434.YahooMailNeo@web160304.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1360937974.11434.YahooMailNeo@web160304.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20130215161339.GH13396@signbit.net> On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 06:19:34AM -0800, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > I'm confused about having linux on a tablet. I've seen instructions > for how to "root" your, say, Nexus 10. What does this do? I'd like to > put a linux on a tablet and be able to use Emacs (for org-mode!) and > a terminal. Does "rooting" a tablet give me some sort of linux with > touch screen capabilities? Or is it just a regular linux on a laptop > from that point? Emacs: the original multi-touch app! [Ctrl]-[Meta]-[F]-[T]-[W]-[!] Cheers, florin -- Beware of software written by optimists! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From kris.browne at gmail.com Fri Feb 15 10:29:19 2013 From: kris.browne at gmail.com (Kris Browne) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 10:29:19 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a tablet? In-Reply-To: <20130215161339.GH13396@signbit.net> References: <1360937974.11434.YahooMailNeo@web160304.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <20130215161339.GH13396@signbit.net> Message-ID: I have used emacs on my iPad extensively via ssh, I've setup my client to essentially have gestures for the more common but keyboard intensive shortcuts, and like the experience enough that I'm looking for ways to do the same with touchpad gestures on my Mac. I miss my Touchstream keyboard sometimes because it had a prebuilt gesture mode for emacs that mapped all its standard gestures to emacs shortcuts out of the box, which also made it far more friendly to use Dvorak with emacs. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?. Kristopher Browne ?? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ?. kris.browne at gmail.com ?Happy? ? ? ? ? ?. ??Holidays!? ? ?? _?_? ? ? ? ? ? ? /____?/ ??? ? ? ? l??? |?| ? ? ? ? ? On Feb 15, 2013, at 10:13, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 06:19:34AM -0800, Olwe Bottorff wrote: >> I'm confused about having linux on a tablet. I've seen instructions >> for how to "root" your, say, Nexus 10. What does this do? I'd like to >> put a linux on a tablet and be able to use Emacs (for org-mode!) and >> a terminal. Does "rooting" a tablet give me some sort of linux with >> touch screen capabilities? Or is it just a regular linux on a laptop >> from that point? > > Emacs: the original multi-touch app! > > [Ctrl]-[Meta]-[F]-[T]-[W]-[!] > > Cheers, > florin > > -- > Beware of software written by optimists! > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From j at packetgod.com Fri Feb 15 10:30:32 2013 From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 10:30:32 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Best light distros for ancient laptops. In-Reply-To: References: <511d394e.181d.b58b2b70.2bc5cd84@rrt.net> Message-ID: Its true, I admit I'm a big enlightenment fan and have been running it for years (decades?), Bohdi just happens to be built to use it by default so that's why I went with it. Any good light debian based distro with Enlightenment will do for me :) On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 2:00 PM, Joel Longanecker < joel.longanecker at gmail.com> wrote: > I can't say that I've ever seen anybody actually recommend Bodhi outside > of a small number of vocal users on Reddit (OK, mostly just the > maintainer). Though I have a feeling that Bodhi running KDE instead of e17 > would be just as slow as Linux Mint running KDE. > > > On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 1:48 PM, J Cruit wrote: > >> I like Bohdi Linux on my old laptops (http://www.bodhilinux.com/) it >> uses Enlightenment and is incredibly light and easy to use. No clue on if >> it will support the printer out of the box though. It is Debian/Ubuntu >> based at its roots though. >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Robert Gilbertson wrote: >> >>> When I set up my Brother MFC-J625DW multifunction wireless I used the >>> Linux driver from Brother's site for that model. >>> Your model is listed. Pick LPR or cups driver and .deb or .rpm package. >>> I used cups. Found I needed to set URI to socket://printer_ipaddr. >>> Once I figured it out it works fine. >>> >>> Haven't spent the time to try get the scanner working over wireless yet. >>> >>> On Thursday 14/02/2013 at 12:08 pm, Nicholas Korsakov wrote: >>> >>> My Brother printer model is: MFC 7860DW. **** >>> >>> I currently have Mint Linux 14 (Nadia), with KDE.**** >>> >>> *MWCIA |7701 France Ave S Ste 450 Mpls MN 55435|952.897.6426 | >>> nicholas.korsakov at mwcia.org***** >>> >>> ** ** >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trieff at greencaremankato.com Fri Feb 15 10:44:50 2013 From: trieff at greencaremankato.com (Thomas Rieff) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 10:44:50 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] New Tablets In-Reply-To: <139258663.407705.1360946562500.JavaMail.root@greencaremankato.com> Message-ID: <1005228369.407903.1360946690876.JavaMail.root@greencaremankato.com> TCLUG, This is not linux related...Anyone familiar with some of the new tablets that run Windows 8. Have a legacy Visual Foxpro package that we would like to take mobile??? Tom Thomas Rieff GreenCare 1717 3rd Avenue Mankato, MN 56001 (507) 344-8314 Office (507) 344-8316 Fax (507) 381-0660 Cell -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Fri Feb 15 10:46:25 2013 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 10:46:25 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] New Tablets In-Reply-To: <1005228369.407903.1360946690876.JavaMail.root@greencaremankato.com> References: <1005228369.407903.1360946690876.JavaMail.root@greencaremankato.com> Message-ID: The Windows Tablets (like the Surface etc) don't run the same kind of Windows as desktops/laptops. You can't actually run Windows applications on them, to my knowledge. But someone IS working on WINE for Android... On Fri, 15 Feb 2013, Thomas Rieff wrote: > TCLUG, > This is not linux related...Anyone familiar with some of the new tablets > that run Windows 8. Have a legacy Visual Foxpro package that we would like > to take mobile???? > Tom > > Thomas Rieff > GreenCare > 1717 3rd Avenue > Mankato, MN 56001 > (507) 344-8314 Office > (507) 344-8316 Fax > (507) 381-0660 Cell > > > -- From jeruvin at gmail.com Fri Feb 15 10:51:14 2013 From: jeruvin at gmail.com (jason reynolds) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 10:51:14 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] New Tablets In-Reply-To: References: <1005228369.407903.1360946690876.JavaMail.root@greencaremankato.com> Message-ID: Windows RT does not run normal x86 apps due to them running in ARM processors. The Pro tablets with Intel Atom processors do run full Windows 8 Applications. I've got a few of them here at work, but haven't done a lot with loading apps and such beyond what we are testing. Windows 8 takes a bit to get used to. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:46 AM, Yaron wrote: > The Windows Tablets (like the Surface etc) don't run the same kind of > Windows as desktops/laptops. You can't actually run Windows applications on > them, to my knowledge. > > But someone IS working on WINE for Android... > > > On Fri, 15 Feb 2013, Thomas Rieff wrote: > > TCLUG, >> This is not linux related...Anyone familiar with some of the new tablets >> that run Windows 8. Have a legacy Visual Foxpro package that we would like >> to take mobile??? >> Tom >> >> Thomas Rieff >> GreenCare >> 1717 3rd Avenue >> Mankato, MN 56001 >> (507) 344-8314 Office >> (507) 344-8316 Fax >> (507) 381-0660 Cell >> >> >> >> > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- jason -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From galanolwe at yahoo.com Fri Feb 15 11:42:32 2013 From: galanolwe at yahoo.com (Olwe Bottorff) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 09:42:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a tablet? In-Reply-To: <1360938822.32302.YahooMailNeo@web121501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1360937974.11434.YahooMailNeo@web160304.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1360938822.32302.YahooMailNeo@web121501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1360950152.80238.YahooMailNeo@web160301.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> So then, what does getting superuser access get me? I assume it's like having sudo -s or "root"?privileges on the tablet. But then what can I do with such power? I'd like a terminal with 256 colors and Emacs 24. on board native. Can I then install these? O GM,MN? >________________________________ > From: Wayne Johnson >To: Olwe Bottorff ; TCLUG Mailing List ; TCLUG Mailing List >Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 8:33 AM >Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Linux on a tablet? > > >At least with Android, you already have Linux on your tablet.? Android uses Linux as it's base operating system then adds a Java/Native mix of user interface on top of that.? The confusion comes in that many stock Android installations prevent or limit your access to the Linux portions.? There are Apps in the Google Play store that will get you a Linux console, but it's usually pretty limited in it's privileges. > >"Rooting" your tablet/phone allows you to have root access to this Linux.? Basically you are replacing the manufactures OS with one that has been built from the open source, and allows you superuser access.? > > > >>________________________________ >> From: Olwe Bottorff >>To: TCLUG Mailing List >>Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 8:19 AM >>Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a tablet? >> >> >>I'm confused about having linux on a tablet. I've seen instructions for how to "root" your, say, Nexus 10. What does this do? I'd like to put a linux on a tablet and be able to use Emacs (for org-mode!) and a terminal. Does "rooting" a tablet give me some sort of linux with touch screen capabilities? Or is it just a regular linux on a laptop from that point? >> >> >>O >>GM,MN > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Fri Feb 15 11:50:02 2013 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 11:50:02 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a tablet? In-Reply-To: <1360950152.80238.YahooMailNeo@web160301.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1360937974.11434.YahooMailNeo@web160304.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1360938822.32302.YahooMailNeo@web121501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1360950152.80238.YahooMailNeo@web160301.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I can only speak for Android, but... First of all, there are some apps that require root access. Some of them are mundane, but some like Titanium Backup are practically essential. Also, a lot of Android devices come pre-loaded with a lot of uninstallable bloatware. With root access you can remove that. One of the main reasons I root my devices is, well, they're MY devices. I should have full access to them. It doesn't hurt that the modded ROMs I use are already rooted. I'm not sure how many colours Android'd Terminal Emulator supports, but there are developer-specific terminal apps. I don't know that there's a native emacs for Android, though, but I also have no idea why you'd want to run emacs on a tablet or phone or anything without a physical keyboard. There's a reason people say EMACS stands for "Escape Meta Alt Ctrl Shift". On Fri, 15 Feb 2013, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > So then, what does getting superuser access get me? I assume it's like > having sudo -s or "root"?privileges on the tablet. But then what can I do > with such power? I'd like a terminal with 256 colors and Emacs 24. on board > native. Can I then install these? > > O > GM,MN? > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > From: Wayne Johnson > To: Olwe Bottorff ; TCLUG Mailing List > ; TCLUG Mailing List > > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 8:33 AM > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Linux on a tablet? > > At least with Android, you already have Linux on your tablet.? Android > uses Linux as it's base operating system then adds a Java/Native mix > of user interface on top of that.? The confusion comes in that many > stock Android installations prevent or limit your access to the Linux > portions.? There are Apps in the Google Play store that will get you a > Linux console, but it's usually pretty limited in it's privileges. > > "Rooting" your tablet/phone allows you to have root access to this > Linux.? Basically you are replacing the manufactures OS with one that > has been built from the open source, and allows you superuser access.? > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > From: Olwe Bottorff > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 8:19 AM > Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a tablet? > > I'm confused about having linux on a tablet. I've seen > instructions for how to "root" your, say, Nexus 10. What does > this do? I'd like to put a linux on a tablet and be able to use > Emacs (for org-mode!) and a terminal. Does "rooting" a tablet > give me some sort of linux with touch screen capabilities? Or is > it just a regular linux on a laptop from that point? > > O > GM,MN > > > > -- From chapinjeff at gmail.com Fri Feb 15 13:23:21 2013 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 13:23:21 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a tablet? In-Reply-To: References: <1360937974.11434.YahooMailNeo@web160304.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1360938822.32302.YahooMailNeo@web121501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1360950152.80238.YahooMailNeo@web160301.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I do not know if either of those applications exist -- I have not looked into it. If they do exist, they do not seem like the type of application you would need root access to install or use -- neither of them requires escalated privileges to run. You only need root to do things that a regular user is prohibited from doing -- things like modify the network routing tables, open low ports, modify the / partition, or remove the vendor provided bloat-ware. Jeff On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 11:50 AM, Yaron wrote: > I can only speak for Android, but... > > First of all, there are some apps that require root access. Some of them > are mundane, but some like Titanium Backup are practically essential. > > Also, a lot of Android devices come pre-loaded with a lot of uninstallable > bloatware. With root access you can remove that. > > One of the main reasons I root my devices is, well, they're MY devices. I > should have full access to them. It doesn't hurt that the modded ROMs I use > are already rooted. > > I'm not sure how many colours Android'd Terminal Emulator supports, but > there are developer-specific terminal apps. I don't know that there's a > native emacs for Android, though, but I also have no idea why you'd want to > run emacs on a tablet or phone or anything without a physical keyboard. > There's a reason people say EMACS stands for "Escape Meta Alt Ctrl Shift". > > > > On Fri, 15 Feb 2013, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > > So then, what does getting superuser access get me? I assume it's like >> having sudo -s or "root" privileges on the tablet. But then what can I do >> with such power? I'd like a terminal with 256 colors and Emacs 24. on >> board >> native. Can I then install these? >> >> O >> GM,MN >> >> ______________________________**______________________________** >> ________________ >> >> From: Wayne Johnson >> To: Olwe Bottorff ; TCLUG Mailing List >> ; TCLUG Mailing List >> >> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 8:33 AM >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Linux on a tablet? >> >> At least with Android, you already have Linux on your tablet. Android >> uses Linux as it's base operating system then adds a Java/Native mix >> of user interface on top of that. The confusion comes in that many >> stock Android installations prevent or limit your access to the Linux >> portions. There are Apps in the Google Play store that will get you a >> Linux console, but it's usually pretty limited in it's privileges. >> >> "Rooting" your tablet/phone allows you to have root access to this >> Linux. Basically you are replacing the manufactures OS with one that >> has been built from the open source, and allows you superuser access. >> >> ______________________________**______________________________** >> ________________ >> >> From: Olwe Bottorff >> To: TCLUG Mailing List >> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 8:19 AM >> Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a tablet? >> >> I'm confused about having linux on a tablet. I've seen >> instructions for how to "root" your, say, Nexus 10. What does >> this do? I'd like to put a linux on a tablet and be able to use >> Emacs (for org-mode!) and a terminal. Does "rooting" a tablet >> give me some sort of linux with touch screen capabilities? Or is >> it just a regular linux on a laptop from that point? >> >> O >> GM,MN >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wdtj at yahoo.com Fri Feb 15 13:36:50 2013 From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 11:36:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a tablet? In-Reply-To: <1360950152.80238.YahooMailNeo@web160301.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1360937974.11434.YahooMailNeo@web160304.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1360938822.32302.YahooMailNeo@web121501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1360950152.80238.YahooMailNeo@web160301.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1360957010.93321.YahooMailNeo@web121502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Yes, provided that you have it compiled for that platform already. ? --- Wayne Johnson,???????????? | There are two kinds of people: Those 3943 Penn Ave. N.????????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done," Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, (612) 522-7003???????????? | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis >________________________________ > From: Olwe Bottorff >To: TCLUG Mailing List >Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 11:42 AM >Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Linux on a tablet? > > >So then, what does getting superuser access get me? I assume it's like having sudo -s or "root"?privileges on the tablet. But then what can I do with such power? I'd like a terminal with 256 colors and Emacs 24. on board native. Can I then install these? > > >O >GM,MN? > > > >>________________________________ >> From: Wayne Johnson >>To: Olwe Bottorff ; TCLUG Mailing List ; TCLUG Mailing List >>Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 8:33 AM >>Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Linux on a tablet? >> >> >>At least with Android, you already have Linux on your tablet.? Android uses Linux as it's base operating system then adds a Java/Native mix of user interface on top of that.? The confusion comes in that many stock Android installations prevent or limit your access to the Linux portions.? There are Apps in the Google Play store that will get you a Linux console, but it's usually pretty limited in it's privileges. >> >>"Rooting" your tablet/phone allows you to have root access to this Linux.? Basically you are replacing the manufactures OS with one that has been built from the open source, and allows you superuser access.? >> >> >> >>>________________________________ >>> From: Olwe Bottorff >>>To: TCLUG Mailing List >>>Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 8:19 AM >>>Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a tablet? >>> >>> >>>I'm confused about having linux on a tablet. I've seen instructions for how to "root" your, say, Nexus 10. What does this do? I'd like to put a linux on a tablet and be able to use Emacs (for org-mode!) and a terminal. Does "rooting" a tablet give me some sort of linux with touch screen capabilities? Or is it just a regular linux on a laptop from that point? >>> >>> >>>O >>>GM,MN >> >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list at mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wdtj at yahoo.com Fri Feb 15 13:36:50 2013 From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 11:36:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a tablet? In-Reply-To: <1360950152.80238.YahooMailNeo@web160301.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1360937974.11434.YahooMailNeo@web160304.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1360938822.32302.YahooMailNeo@web121501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1360950152.80238.YahooMailNeo@web160301.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1360957010.93321.YahooMailNeo@web121502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Yes, provided that you have it compiled for that platform already. ? --- Wayne Johnson,???????????? | There are two kinds of people: Those 3943 Penn Ave. N.????????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done," Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, (612) 522-7003???????????? | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis >________________________________ > From: Olwe Bottorff >To: TCLUG Mailing List >Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 11:42 AM >Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Linux on a tablet? > > >So then, what does getting superuser access get me? I assume it's like having sudo -s or "root"?privileges on the tablet. But then what can I do with such power? I'd like a terminal with 256 colors and Emacs 24. on board native. Can I then install these? > > >O >GM,MN? > > > >>________________________________ >> From: Wayne Johnson >>To: Olwe Bottorff ; TCLUG Mailing List ; TCLUG Mailing List >>Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 8:33 AM >>Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Linux on a tablet? >> >> >>At least with Android, you already have Linux on your tablet.? Android uses Linux as it's base operating system then adds a Java/Native mix of user interface on top of that.? The confusion comes in that many stock Android installations prevent or limit your access to the Linux portions.? There are Apps in the Google Play store that will get you a Linux console, but it's usually pretty limited in it's privileges. >> >>"Rooting" your tablet/phone allows you to have root access to this Linux.? Basically you are replacing the manufactures OS with one that has been built from the open source, and allows you superuser access.? >> >> >> >>>________________________________ >>> From: Olwe Bottorff >>>To: TCLUG Mailing List >>>Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 8:19 AM >>>Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a tablet? >>> >>> >>>I'm confused about having linux on a tablet. I've seen instructions for how to "root" your, say, Nexus 10. What does this do? I'd like to put a linux on a tablet and be able to use Emacs (for org-mode!) and a terminal. Does "rooting" a tablet give me some sort of linux with touch screen capabilities? Or is it just a regular linux on a laptop from that point? >>> >>> >>>O >>>GM,MN >> >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list at mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trieff at greencaremankato.com Fri Feb 15 13:51:02 2013 From: trieff at greencaremankato.com (Thomas Rieff) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 13:51:02 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] New Tablets In-Reply-To: <1288862506.413263.1360957748771.JavaMail.root@greencaremankato.com> Message-ID: <258302719.413389.1360957862391.JavaMail.root@greencaremankato.com> Thanks for the thoughts so far. Will check out the Pro and wine on android. Which Android Tablet has excellent performance per price point??? Tom Thomas Rieff GreenCare 1717 3rd Avenue Mankato, MN 56001 (507) 344-8314 Office (507) 344-8316 Fax (507) 381-0660 Cell Message: 2 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 10:46:25 -0600 (CST) From: Yaron < tclug at freakzilla.com > To: TCLUG < tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] New Tablets Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" The Windows Tablets (like the Surface etc) don't run the same kind of Windows as desktops/laptops. You can't actually run Windows applications on them, to my knowledge. But someone IS working on WINE for Android... On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 , Thomas Rieff wrote: > TCLUG, > This is not linux related...Anyone familiar with some of the new tablets > that run Windows 8. Have a legacy Visual Foxpro package that we would like > to take mobile???? > Tom > > Thomas Rieff > GreenCare > 1717 3rd Avenue > Mankato, MN 56001 > (507) 344-8314 Office > (507) 344-8316 Fax > (507) 381-0660 Cell > > > -- ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 10:51:14 -0600 From: jason reynolds < jeruvin at gmail.com > To: TCLUG Mailing List < tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] New Tablets Message-ID: < CAPnpKPnQTJ0-pdHQb-6XH8_icmX8GzXZ2iDuwguKvamU0wbLkw at mail.gmail.com > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Windows RT does not run normal x86 apps due to them running in ARM processors. The Pro tablets with Intel Atom processors do run full Windows 8 Applications. I've got a few of them here at work, but haven't done a lot with loading apps and such beyond what we are testing. Windows 8 takes a bit to get used to. On Fri, Feb 15 , 2013 at 10:46 AM, Yaron < tclug at freakzilla.com > wrote: > The Windows Tablets (like the Surface etc) don't run the same kind of > Windows as desktops/laptops. You can't actually run Windows applications on > them, to my knowledge. > > But someone IS working on WINE for Android... > > > On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 , Thomas Rieff wrote: > > TCLUG, >> This is not linux related...Anyone familiar with some of the new tablets >> that run Windows 8. Have a legacy Visual Foxpro package that we would like >> to take mobile??? >> Tom >> >> Thomas Rieff >> GreenCare >> 1717 3rd Avenue >> Mankato, MN 56001 >> (507) 344-8314 Office >> (507) 344-8316 Fax >> (507) 381-0660 Cell -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Fri Feb 15 13:54:07 2013 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 13:54:07 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] New Tablets In-Reply-To: <258302719.413389.1360957862391.JavaMail.root@greencaremankato.com> References: <258302719.413389.1360957862391.JavaMail.root@greencaremankato.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Feb 2013, Thomas Rieff wrote: > Which Android Tablet has excellent performance per price point??? Nexus 10. -- From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com Sun Feb 17 14:40:58 2013 From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 14:40:58 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Best light distros for ancient laptops. In-Reply-To: <3BC76BCFB10A954D97C6751255E2D0DA428610B523@condor.mwcia.org> References: <3BC76BCFB10A954D97C6751255E2D0DA428610B523@condor.mwcia.org> Message-ID: <20130217144058.dea9a283caaec91cdb105832@jasonhsu.com> Just how ancient is your old laptop? What are its specs (processor, memory, etc.)? Assuming that you're using a Ubuntu-based edition of Linux Mint, try a distro that isn't based on Ubuntu. Linux Mint Debian Edition bypasses the heavy Ubuntu overhead. Another great Debian-based distro is Snowlinux. (I'm using Snowlinux 4 Glacier with MATE right now.) For an even lighter distro, try antiX Linux or Puppy Linux. antiX Linux is a lightweight version of MEPIS Linux (also Debian-based), and Puppy Linux is a lightweight independent distro (and the parent of MacPup). On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 09:31:51 -0600 Nicholas Korsakov wrote: > I have an old laptop which can barely run Mint Linux (which I really like). > > When I installed the latest version of Mint, I could not find a readily find a driver for my (relatively new) wireless printer. > > I can probably work though this, but it is a pain. > > Also, I am getting weird imagery when booting...lots of vertical lines for a while and text about my batter life (it's plugged in). > > -- Jason Hsu From samael.anon at gmail.com Sun Feb 17 16:02:24 2013 From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 16:02:24 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Best light distros for ancient laptops. In-Reply-To: <20130217144058.dea9a283caaec91cdb105832@jasonhsu.com> References: <3BC76BCFB10A954D97C6751255E2D0DA428610B523@condor.mwcia.org> <20130217144058.dea9a283caaec91cdb105832@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: you could try kde and remove the features you don't need using "kpersonalizer" at the command line On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 2:40 PM, Jason Hsu wrote: > Just how ancient is your old laptop? What are its specs (processor, > memory, etc.)? > > Assuming that you're using a Ubuntu-based edition of Linux Mint, try a > distro that isn't based on Ubuntu. Linux Mint Debian Edition bypasses the > heavy Ubuntu overhead. Another great Debian-based distro is Snowlinux. > (I'm using Snowlinux 4 Glacier with MATE right now.) > > For an even lighter distro, try antiX Linux or Puppy Linux. antiX Linux > is a lightweight version of MEPIS Linux (also Debian-based), and Puppy > Linux is a lightweight independent distro (and the parent of MacPup). > > On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 09:31:51 -0600 > Nicholas Korsakov wrote: > > > I have an old laptop which can barely run Mint Linux (which I really > like). > > > > When I installed the latest version of Mint, I could not find a readily > find a driver for my (relatively new) wireless printer. > > > > I can probably work though this, but it is a pain. > > > > Also, I am getting weird imagery when booting...lots of vertical lines > for a while and text about my batter life (it's plugged in). > > > > > -- > Jason Hsu > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com Tue Feb 19 02:47:02 2013 From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 02:47:02 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for Speaker ! for Penguins Unbound Meeting Feburary 23rd Message-ID: <51233C06.6020501@Goecke-Dolan.com> This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be Saturday February 23th at TIES, 1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108 from 10:00am to 12:00pm (See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more info.) I am Looking for A speaker for Saturday's Penguins Unbound Meeting. Is there anyone with Puppet (or a similar) multi-machine management experience that could come talk about it ? Thanks! ==>brian. *** STREAMING *** If you can't make it you can use this url to stream the meeting. mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 You should be able to connect with either: mplayer mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 or vlc http://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 From Nicholas.Korsakov at mwcia.org Tue Feb 19 09:07:33 2013 From: Nicholas.Korsakov at mwcia.org (Nicholas Korsakov) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 09:07:33 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Dual booting. Message-ID: <3BC76BCFB10A954D97C6751255E2D0DA428610B947@condor.mwcia.org> Gentlemen, I installed Bodhi Linux on the ancient laptop and it is working very well so far. Haven't tried installing printer capability yet (to my wireless Brother printer). I will definitely also look into Snow...I am intrigued. On my other, more stable laptop, I dual-booted (Windows 7 & Mint Linux KDE). Given the excellent advice, I am now thinking of wiping out the Mint KDE partition and using Mint Debian edition instead. 1. Is there a safe way of doing this? 2. What desktop environment comes with the Debian edition? a. Or, what would you recommend ? b. And, how would I get/install it? Thanks for the advice on setting up the printer setup! I'll try using CUPS and the adjustments you mentioned. -- Nicholas MWCIA |7701 France Ave S Ste 450 Mpls MN 55435|952.897.6426 |nicholas.korsakov at mwcia.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bbaptist at iexposure.com Tue Feb 19 09:03:07 2013 From: bbaptist at iexposure.com (Bret Baptist) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 09:03:07 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Job opening at Internet Exposure Message-ID: <5123942B.7050209@iexposure.com> I thought someone on the list might be interested in an opening we have here at Internet Exposure. Please email me off list with any inquiries. Thank you. -----------Position description----------- Internet Exposure Network Administrator Full-Time Job Internet Exposure specializes in custom web and mobile application development, interactive marketing and network consultation. http://www.iexposure.com Schedule: 7-4 / 8-5 / 9-6 M-F (Flex) Location: Minneapolis RESPONSIBILITIES: Help manage and maintain our internal network Support senior network administrators Manage Linux servers primarily with some Windows servers in our virtualized environment Build, install, and deploy physical servers as needed Maintain dynamic website cluster Manage databases (MySQL, PostgresSQL - no SQL experience needed) Manage email system cluster Provided 2nd level or backup support to in-house staff and clients as needed QUALIFICATIONS: Very comfortable working with Linux server environments Windows server experience is a plus Familiar with virtualization (RHEV is a plus) Good understanding of network infrastructures Network security (understanding of firewalls, user permissions, basic security procedures) SAN experience (grasp of Storage Area Networks) Customer support skills (phone support, email support, personable) Be self motivated and highly organized Ability to work independently We are an open source oriented company that uses open source products when it makes sense. Our servers are primarily comprised of Ubuntu Linux, Redhat Linux, and some Windows servers. For this position, we are seeking a technical person to assist in maintaining this environment and helping improve it for the future. We are seeking to add a person interested in an opportunity to work with an exciting firm that offers growth potential in an expanding business. We expect a positive attitude, a passion for service and the motivation to learn and grow in the technology field. This is an excellent position with great opportunities for a highly organized, motivated candidate. E-mail us today and get started on a new career! iExposure offers a competitive salary and a benefits package that includes medical, dental insurance, PTO and Matching 401K. Apply today and take one step closer to joining Team iE! -- Bret Baptist Senior Network Administrator Internet Exposure bbaptist at iexposure.com (612) 676-1946 x117 Check out our blog: www.iexposure.com/blog Follow us on Twitter: www.twitter.com/iexposure Like us on Facebook www.facebook.com/iexposure Connect on Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/company/internet-exposure A Digital Agency Since 1995 From cwgriesel at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 09:57:39 2013 From: cwgriesel at gmail.com (Curtis Griesel) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 09:57:39 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Dual booting. In-Reply-To: <3BC76BCFB10A954D97C6751255E2D0DA428610B947@condor.mwcia.org> References: <3BC76BCFB10A954D97C6751255E2D0DA428610B947@condor.mwcia.org> Message-ID: Is this a men-only list? On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 9:07 AM, Nicholas Korsakov < Nicholas.Korsakov at mwcia.org> wrote: > Gentlemen, > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joel.longanecker at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 10:13:40 2013 From: joel.longanecker at gmail.com (Joel Longanecker) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:13:40 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Dual booting. In-Reply-To: References: <3BC76BCFB10A954D97C6751255E2D0DA428610B947@condor.mwcia.org> Message-ID: I'm not a mod on this list, but there is a time and place for gender politics. But I'm pretty sure that this isn't it. Let's help this guy get his system right first. Start a new thread if you are so offended by the salutation. On Feb 19, 2013 9:57 AM, "Curtis Griesel" wrote: > Is this a men-only list? > > On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 9:07 AM, Nicholas Korsakov < > Nicholas.Korsakov at mwcia.org> wrote: > >> Gentlemen, >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cwgriesel at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 11:12:41 2013 From: cwgriesel at gmail.com (Curtis Griesel) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 11:12:41 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Dual booting. In-Reply-To: References: <3BC76BCFB10A954D97C6751255E2D0DA428610B947@condor.mwcia.org> Message-ID: I am not offended. Just engaging in conversation. The fact that more women are not involved in technology is not a complicated issue of gender politics. It is just as simple as being friendly, polite and welcoming to everyone. I'm just trying to help us all be better people, help improve the profession, and help us all get along well with each other. I wish I could help with the dual booting problem. But for now, this is all I have to offer to the conversation. Thanks. On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Joel Longanecker < joel.longanecker at gmail.com> wrote: > I'm not a mod on this list, but there is a time and place for gender > politics. But I'm pretty sure that this isn't it. Let's help this guy get > his system right first. Start a new thread if you are so offended by the > salutation. > On Feb 19, 2013 9:57 AM, "Curtis Griesel" wrote: > >> Is this a men-only list? >> >> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 9:07 AM, Nicholas Korsakov < >> Nicholas.Korsakov at mwcia.org> wrote: >> >>> Gentlemen, >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuporglue at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 11:27:43 2013 From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 11:27:43 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Dual booting. In-Reply-To: <3BC76BCFB10A954D97C6751255E2D0DA428610B947@condor.mwcia.org> References: <3BC76BCFB10A954D97C6751255E2D0DA428610B947@condor.mwcia.org> Message-ID: > Given the excellent advice, I am now thinking of wiping out the Mint KDE > partition > > and using Mint Debian edition instead. > > 1. Is there a safe way of doing this? There's always danger when partitioning hard drives. The least-dangerous way I've found is to boot into a live CD, fire up gParted and delete all the linux partitions I want to overwrite. That leaves a Windows partition, a Windows recovery (depending on the computer) and a big chunk of free-space. Then when I'm running the installer I choose the "use free space" option. I do it this way because gParted has been more user-friendly and reliable to me than installer partitioning tools. Being in the live CD environment also means that you can mount the partitions you're about to erase to double check that they're the correct ones. > > 2. What desktop environment comes with the Debian edition? > a. Or, what would you recommend ? > b. And, how would I get/install it? Mint Debian edition can be obtained here: http://www.linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php There's a Mate/Cinnamon version and an XFCE version. I have a very slight preference for the Mate desktop, but I do keep XFCE on one of my laptops. Either would be a fine choice. On the actual download page there's a link for a torrent file, or for a direct download of the ISO which you can burn. I usually pick the torrent, since it tends to be faster for me, but either way will work fine. Burn the ISO to a DVD, pop it in and follow the prompts. -- Michael Moore > > > Thanks for the advice on setting up the printer setup! > > I?ll try using CUPS and the adjustments you mentioned. > > > > -- Nicholas > > > > MWCIA |7701 France Ave S Ste 450 Mpls MN 55435|952.897.6426 > |nicholas.korsakov at mwcia.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Support the digitization of the Iron County Miner newspaper archives Like this project on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/digitizeicm From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 17:51:29 2013 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 17:51:29 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] smart watches In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Jan 2013, Mike Miller wrote: > On Wed, 16 Jan 2013, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote: > >> How about a Nano watch? Not sure if it scratches the tell me who is >> causing my phone to vibrate in my pocket itch, but they do make cool >> watches (screensaver can be sit as couple of different clocks), and >> charging should be acceptable for your parameters if you're not using >> the Nano too much. >> >> Buy a Nano and a strap (or pay more for someone who put the two together): >> http://www.amazon.com/Wrist-Jockey-Casual-Grid-watch/dp/B004B7FXHI/ref=cm_lmf_tit_4/179-7700472-3546960 > > > It looks like a better device than the Sony Smartwatch - much better > resolution and similar dimensions. It can do Bluetooth, but I don't > know what it can do with it. It looks like a fun thing to play with. More new stuff is coming out. I think the Bluetooth smart watch is going to become a big deal in the next few years, at least if the iWatch is a success. With clever programming, they shoud be able to do a lot for us. Pebble for Android or iPhone: http://getpebble.com/ iWatch: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/feb/17/apple-iwatch-wearable-tech http://www.macrumors.com/2013/02/18/apples-rumored-iwatch-as-an-even-more-personal-personal-computer/ Mike From galanolwe at yahoo.com Tue Feb 19 22:58:42 2013 From: galanolwe at yahoo.com (Olwe Bottorff) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 20:58:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] Emacs home install? Message-ID: <1361336322.23691.YahooMailNeo@web160306.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Has anyone installed Emacs entirely to their home directory? I've got a website and shell on bluehost.com and they run RH servers. But they won't upgrade to E24. Actually, I wouldn't mind suggestions on a new "provider." I'd like a shell account with someone who is a bit more understanding. Web is not that important, i.e., provider.org/~myself sort of address would be okay. O GM,MN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuporglue at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 23:35:48 2013 From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 23:35:48 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Emacs home install? In-Reply-To: <1361336322.23691.YahooMailNeo@web160306.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1361336322.23691.YahooMailNeo@web160306.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 10:58 PM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > Has anyone installed Emacs entirely to their home directory? I've got a > website and shell on bluehost.com and they run RH servers. I use bluehost and have had good success compiling things there. I've never tried to install Emacs, but can't you just download the source and do a ./configure && make && make install? ./configure probably has a flag that lets you specify a destination directory. If it doesn't you might be able to run it from the directory it builds it in. -- Michael Moore From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com Fri Feb 22 09:24:08 2013 From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:24:08 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] USB Linux booting on Compaq 6200 woes Message-ID: Greetings, My apologies if I posted this twice, I accidentally used another e-mail for the first attempt. I have a handful of Compaq 6200 Mini tower slim chassis (i5, 3.1 ghz) that I'm trying to boot from a Linux thumb drive but none will boot. Has anyone used these before with USB booting? The thumb drive is USB3, however it works fine on all other systems, including USB2 only older Core2 systems. In fact, I can even boot Macs just fine using Plop boot CD (permits booting of USB from CD). So, it's definitely not the thumb drive or OS (also have proper hook for block devices is compiled in the kernel image). I tried using a powered USB hub as well, and Plop boot CD in these machines but it won't see the drive either way. The BIOS is set up to allow booting from USB. When I boot to the start up menu, it doesn't see the USB drive at all (have tried front and back ports). It's like it doesn't exist until Windows boots. The drive has a light and it lights up during POST, so it's getting some power. When I boot into Windows it sees the drive just fine. BIOS firmware is up to date, it uses American Megatrends firmware with HP branding on it. Any thoughts? Seems silly that these not so old workstations won't boot to USB... -- Jeremy MountainJohnson Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com From jmore at starmind.org Fri Feb 22 09:48:14 2013 From: jmore at starmind.org (Josh More) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 08:48:14 -0700 Subject: [tclug-list] USB Linux booting on Compaq 6200 woes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For a period of time, Compaq systems were configured so they'd only boot off a hidden partition on the drive. I fought with one for weeks (years ago) before I had the bright idea to take the drive out and zero it manually. After that, it would boot off CD and USB like any other system. -Josh More On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 8:24 AM, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote: > Greetings, > > My apologies if I posted this twice, I accidentally used another > e-mail for the first attempt. > > I have a handful of Compaq 6200 Mini tower slim chassis (i5, 3.1 ghz) > that I'm trying to boot from a Linux thumb drive but none will boot. > Has anyone used these before with USB booting? > > The thumb drive is USB3, however it works fine on all other systems, > including USB2 only older Core2 systems. In fact, I can even boot Macs > just fine using Plop boot CD (permits booting of USB from CD). So, > it's definitely not the thumb drive or OS (also have proper hook for > block devices is compiled in the kernel image). > > I tried using a powered USB hub as well, and Plop boot CD in these > machines but it won't see the drive either way. The BIOS is set up to > allow booting from USB. When I boot to the start up menu, it doesn't > see the USB drive at all (have tried front and back ports). It's like > it doesn't exist until Windows boots. The drive has a light and it > lights up during POST, so it's getting some power. When I boot into > Windows it sees the drive just fine. > > BIOS firmware is up to date, it uses American Megatrends firmware with > HP branding on it. > > Any thoughts? Seems silly that these not so old workstations won't > boot to USB... > > -- > Jeremy MountainJohnson > Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com Fri Feb 22 12:00:18 2013 From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 12:00:18 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] *Saturday* Penguins Unbound Meeting Feburary 23rd Message-ID: <5127B232.8060107@Goecke-Dolan.com> This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be Saturday February 23th at TIES, 1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108 from 10:00am to 12:00pm (See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more info.) I don't have a speakers, so we will be open to questions and to discuss any Linux topic you would like. And an update on Pi-Day! Hope to see you there. Thanks! ==>brian. *** STREAMING *** If you can't make it you can use this url to stream the meeting. mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 You should be able to connect with either: mplayer mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 or vlc http://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Wed Feb 27 13:46:25 2013 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 13:46:25 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] missing audio plugin Message-ID: http://www.northernspiritradio.org/audiolisten.asp?showid=605034772767 firefox says "missing plugin" for the above page, and if i press the button to go find the missing plugin, it doesn't find one. is there perchance some ubuntu package i'm missing? or some other source? or is there really no such plugin? of course it's easy to request the source of the page (^U), grab the url, and feed it to mplayer. but you'd think there would be a plugin lying around somewhere for this.. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuporglue at gmail.com Wed Feb 27 13:49:26 2013 From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 13:49:26 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] missing audio plugin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Do you have flash installed? Flashblock showed up in the top-right corner for me, and when I clicked it there was music. -- Michael On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 1:46 PM, gregrwm wrote: > http://www.northernspiritradio.org/audiolisten.asp?showid=605034772767 > > firefox says "missing plugin" for the above page, and if i press the button > to go find the missing plugin, it doesn't find one. is there perchance some > ubuntu package i'm missing? or some other source? or is there really no > such plugin? of course it's easy to request the source of the page (^U), > grab the url, and feed it to mplayer. but you'd think there would be a > plugin lying around somewhere for this.. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Support the digitization of the Iron County Miner newspaper archives Like this project on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/digitizeicm From pj.world at hotmail.com Thu Feb 28 01:34:48 2013 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (Paul graf) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 01:34:48 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Paul a noob with Debian Message-ID: Hello, my name is Paul I have been working with Debian Based hardware setup alone. I would enjoy talking with other Linux and Unix users in my area of the Twin Cities. Thank you, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Thu Feb 28 11:55:37 2013 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:55:37 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] For sale: HP pavilion a810n and HP pavilion f1730 monitor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Brian Wood wrote: > http://www.amazon.com/HP-Pavilion-Desktop-Athlon-Processor/dp/B0006VHV64 > > It is like the one there, but has 1GB of memory. > > I sold the monitor, but the box is still available for $70 obo. I managed to install a 64 bit version of Linux on it. -- Brian Wood Ebenezer Enterprises - making programming fun again. http://webEbenezer.net (651) 251-9384 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com Thu Feb 28 15:21:14 2013 From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 15:21:14 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Filing taxes electronically as a Linux user Message-ID: <20130228152114.6edcaa77a7308aea19decbca@jasonhsu.com> I am considering joining the 21st century by doing my taxes electronically instead of on paper. This would save me the hassle of filling in everything by hand, waiting for white-out to dry, scanning in the documents when I'm finished so I have a copy, etc. If you use tax software, what do you use that's available for Linux users? What are my options? I'm also considering filing my taxes online. What precautions (in addition to avoiding public wifi hotspots, using a firewall, using a secure pasword, etc.) do I need to take to ensure my security? -- Jason Hsu From jkjones at tcq.net Thu Feb 28 15:44:25 2013 From: jkjones at tcq.net (jkjones at tcq.net) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 15:44:25 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Filing taxes electronically as a Linux user In-Reply-To: <20130228152114.6edcaa77a7308aea19decbca@jasonhsu.com> References: <20130228152114.6edcaa77a7308aea19decbca@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: I've used TaxAct Online for the past few years. It's web-browser based so it doesn't care what OS you're using. I've used various versions of Ubuntu. I suppose it's as secure as any web based system. As for security, how would you compare your own Internet connection with a coffee shop hotspot -- or to your mailbox for the paper refund checks, or the storefront tax preparer with the guy in a Statue of Liberty outfit, for that matter? TaxAct has worked okay for me. Much easier and more accurate than calculating all the forms by hand. Their basic Federal returns are free, and for a few bucks you can do your State taxes and file electronically. KJ On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Jason Hsu wrote: > I am considering joining the 21st century by doing my taxes electronically > instead of on paper. This would save me the hassle of filling in > everything by hand, waiting for white-out to dry, scanning in the documents > when I'm finished so I have a copy, etc. > > If you use tax software, what do you use that's available for Linux users? > What are my options? > > I'm also considering filing my taxes online. What precautions (in > addition to avoiding public wifi hotspots, using a firewall, using a secure > pasword, etc.) do I need to take to ensure my security? > > -- > Jason Hsu > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Thu Feb 28 16:52:35 2013 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 16:52:35 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Filing taxes electronically as a Linux user In-Reply-To: <20130228152114.6edcaa77a7308aea19decbca@jasonhsu.com> References: <20130228152114.6edcaa77a7308aea19decbca@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: As far as I know, there's no native Linux tax software that can file electronically.. if there's even any tax software at all. For many years I've used TaxAct in a virtualbox/vmware. That worked fine. TaxAct online should be fine too. Last year I had a huge mixup so I had to use an actual CPA. This year even though everything's back to normal I figured I'd use a CPA /and/ do TaxAct online, and compare the two. My taxes are pretty simple and straightforward, really, but the CPA got me a bit more money back. This amount pretty much lined up with how muc moer the CPA cost than TaxAct did, but it came wth the piece of mind of knowing I didn't do ANY of the number-work. On Thu, 28 Feb 2013, Jason Hsu wrote: > I am considering joining the 21st century by doing my taxes electronically instead of on paper. This would save me the hassle of filling in everything by hand, waiting for white-out to dry, scanning in the documents when I'm finished so I have a copy, etc. > > If you use tax software, what do you use that's available for Linux users? What are my options? > > I'm also considering filing my taxes online. What precautions (in addition to avoiding public wifi hotspots, using a firewall, using a secure pasword, etc.) do I need to take to ensure my security? > > -- > Jason Hsu > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com Thu Feb 28 18:00:33 2013 From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 18:00:33 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Filing taxes electronically as a Linux user In-Reply-To: References: <20130228152114.6edcaa77a7308aea19decbca@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: For web based software practically all work.Turbo Tax and H&R Block complain about the OS, but you hit continue and it works just fine. I've done both myself without any issues over the years with Linux. -- Jeremy MountainJohnson Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 4:52 PM, Yaron wrote: > > As far as I know, there's no native Linux tax software that can file electronically.. if there's even any tax software at all. > > For many years I've used TaxAct in a virtualbox/vmware. That worked fine. TaxAct online should be fine too. > > Last year I had a huge mixup so I had to use an actual CPA. This year even though everything's back to normal I figured I'd use a CPA /and/ do TaxAct online, and compare the two. My taxes are pretty simple and straightforward, really, but the CPA got me a bit more money back. This amount pretty much lined up with how muc moer the CPA cost than TaxAct did, but it came wth the piece of mind of knowing I didn't do ANY of the number-work. > > > > > On Thu, 28 Feb 2013, Jason Hsu wrote: > >> I am considering joining the 21st century by doing my taxes electronically instead of on paper. This would save me the hassle of filling in everything by hand, waiting for white-out to dry, scanning in the documents when I'm finished so I have a copy, etc. >> >> If you use tax software, what do you use that's available for Linux users? What are my options? >> >> I'm also considering filing my taxes online. What precautions (in addition to avoiding public wifi hotspots, using a firewall, using a secure pasword, etc.) do I need to take to ensure my security? >> >> -- >> Jason Hsu >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Thu Feb 28 18:01:51 2013 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 18:01:51 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Filing taxes electronically as a Linux user In-Reply-To: References: <20130228152114.6edcaa77a7308aea19decbca@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: I've used TaxAct because it doesn't complain about OS/Browser. 2005 was probably the first year I used it, with Linux. -Erik On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 6:00 PM, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote: > For web based software practically all work.Turbo Tax and H&R Block > complain about the OS, but you hit continue and it works just fine. > I've done both myself without any issues over the years with Linux. > > -- > Jeremy MountainJohnson > Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com > > > On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 4:52 PM, Yaron wrote: >> >> As far as I know, there's no native Linux tax software that can file electronically.. if there's even any tax software at all. >> >> For many years I've used TaxAct in a virtualbox/vmware. That worked fine. TaxAct online should be fine too. >> >> Last year I had a huge mixup so I had to use an actual CPA. This year even though everything's back to normal I figured I'd use a CPA /and/ do TaxAct online, and compare the two. My taxes are pretty simple and straightforward, really, but the CPA got me a bit more money back. This amount pretty much lined up with how muc moer the CPA cost than TaxAct did, but it came wth the piece of mind of knowing I didn't do ANY of the number-work. >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, 28 Feb 2013, Jason Hsu wrote: >> >>> I am considering joining the 21st century by doing my taxes electronically instead of on paper. This would save me the hassle of filling in everything by hand, waiting for white-out to dry, scanning in the documents when I'm finished so I have a copy, etc. >>> >>> If you use tax software, what do you use that's available for Linux users? What are my options? >>> >>> I'm also considering filing my taxes online. What precautions (in addition to avoiding public wifi hotspots, using a firewall, using a secure pasword, etc.) do I need to take to ensure my security? >>> >>> -- >>> Jason Hsu >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Erik K. Mitchell erik.mitchell at gmail.com