From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Oct 4 14:08:25 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 14:08:25 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu error: invalid magic number, cannot boot Message-ID: I installed Ubuntu 12.04 on a RAID1 array a few months ago and explained it all here: http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.tclug/20855 I have been running Unity on the box but I normally attach to it via VNC (with IceWM) in an SSH tunnel. A few days ago the VNC session hung on me and the Xvnc process was at 100% CPU. I had to kill it. (Probably a known bug, but I'll skip that story for now.) Before starting it up again, I ran update-manager from the console. I could see that there was something seriously wrong with Unity -- the task bar on the side had only one item in it, that was just a grayed out box, and it was unresponsive. After running update-manager I rebooted. I don't know what the exit status was for update-manager because it was gone and I don't know if it did much. After rebooting, I have this error: error:invalid magic number error:you need to load the kernel first Grub will show some options for other kernels. I have tried some, and none of them will boot. They hang with a bunch of info on the screen. Any ideas on how to proceed? What tests should I be doing to find the source of the problem? Thanks in advance. Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Oct 4 23:11:47 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 23:11:47 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu error: invalid magic number, cannot boot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Update -- It turns out that the oldest kernel on the list was able to work in recovery mode which took me to a screen saying this: Recovery Menu (filesystem state: read-only) With options: resume, clean, dpkg, failsafeX, fsck, grub, network, root and system-summary. Looking at system-summary it seems pretty normal to me. The RAID seems intact. So I tried "resume" next. This got me back to the window manager. Looking back, I'm wondering if my problem was that I didn't reboot the system after one set of updates before installing another huge batch of updates. This is from back when the system was starting to behave badly but it was still running: Welcome to Ubuntu 12.04 LTS (GNU/Linux 3.2.0-26-generic x86_64) 414 packages can be updated. 116 updates are security updates. *** System restart required *** It was asking for a reboot, but I didn't do it before updating the packages. Clearly, I should have been keeping up on the updates -- I was used to being reminded, but when I don't see the :0 display, I don't see the update manager. Now when I ssh to the box I see this: Welcome to Ubuntu 12.04.1 LTS (GNU/Linux 3.2.0-23-generic x86_64) 9 packages can be updated. 5 updates are security updates. So I've dropped back a few kernel versions. What do you think I should be doing at this point? I'm not sure what is wrong or how to fix it. Maybe if I do the updates and reboot, I'll be back to where I want to be. Anyone? ;-) Mike On Thu, 4 Oct 2012, Mike Miller wrote: > I installed Ubuntu 12.04 on a RAID1 array a few months ago and explained it > all here: > > http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.tclug/20855 > > I have been running Unity on the box but I normally attach to it via VNC > (with IceWM) in an SSH tunnel. A few days ago the VNC session hung on me and > the Xvnc process was at 100% CPU. I had to kill it. (Probably a known bug, > but I'll skip that story for now.) Before starting it up again, I ran > update-manager from the console. I could see that there was something > seriously wrong with Unity -- the task bar on the side had only one item in > it, that was just a grayed out box, and it was unresponsive. After running > update-manager I rebooted. I don't know what the exit status was for > update-manager because it was gone and I don't know if it did much. > > After rebooting, I have this error: > > error:invalid magic number > error:you need to load the kernel first > > Grub will show some options for other kernels. I have tried some, and none > of them will boot. They hang with a bunch of info on the screen. > > Any ideas on how to proceed? What tests should I be doing to find the source > of the problem? > > Thanks in advance. > > Mike > From ron at ron-l-j.com Fri Oct 5 14:40:52 2012 From: ron at ron-l-j.com (ron at ron-l-j.com) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 13:40:52 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] bad magic number In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <03d18db2b12b27809a0daa0bcbad7b23.squirrel@www.ron-l-j.com> > Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Ubuntu error: invalid magic number, cannot boot (Mike Miller) > 2. Re: Ubuntu error: invalid magic number, cannot boot (Mike Miller) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 14:08:25 -0500 (CDT) > From: Mike Miller > To: TCLUG List > Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu error: invalid magic number, cannot boot > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII > > I installed Ubuntu 12.04 on a RAID1 array a few months ago and explained > it all here: > > http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.tclug/20855 > > I have been running Unity on the box but I normally attach to it via VNC > (with IceWM) in an SSH tunnel. A few days ago the VNC session hung on me > and the Xvnc process was at 100% CPU. I had to kill it. (Probably a > known bug, but I'll skip that story for now.) Before starting it up > again, I ran update-manager from the console. I could see that there was > something seriously wrong with Unity -- the task bar on the side had only > one item in it, that was just a grayed out box, and it was unresponsive. > After running update-manager I rebooted. I don't know what the exit > status was for update-manager because it was gone and I don't know if it > did much. > > After rebooting, I have this error: > > error:invalid magic number > error:you need to load the kernel first > > Grub will show some options for other kernels. I have tried some, and > none of them will boot. They hang with a bunch of info on the screen. > > Any ideas on how to proceed? What tests should I be doing to find the > source of the problem? > > Thanks in advance. > > Mike > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 23:11:47 -0500 (CDT) > From: Mike Miller > To: TCLUG List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Ubuntu error: invalid magic number, cannot > boot > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII > > Update -- It turns out that the oldest kernel on the list was able to work > in recovery mode which took me to a screen saying this: > > Recovery Menu (filesystem state: read-only) > > With options: resume, clean, dpkg, failsafeX, fsck, grub, network, root > and system-summary. > > Looking at system-summary it seems pretty normal to me. The RAID seems > intact. So I tried "resume" next. This got me back to the window > manager. > > Looking back, I'm wondering if my problem was that I didn't reboot the > system after one set of updates before installing another huge batch of > updates. This is from back when the system was starting to behave badly > but it was still running: > > Welcome to Ubuntu 12.04 LTS (GNU/Linux 3.2.0-26-generic x86_64) > 414 packages can be updated. > 116 updates are security updates. > *** System restart required *** > > It was asking for a reboot, but I didn't do it before updating the > packages. Clearly, I should have been keeping up on the updates -- I was > used to being reminded, but when I don't see the :0 display, I don't see > the update manager. Now when I ssh to the box I see this: > > Welcome to Ubuntu 12.04.1 LTS (GNU/Linux 3.2.0-23-generic x86_64) > 9 packages can be updated. > 5 updates are security updates. > > So I've dropped back a few kernel versions. What do you think I should be > doing at this point? I'm not sure what is wrong or how to fix it. Maybe > if I do the updates and reboot, I'll be back to where I want to be. > > Anyone? ;-) > > Mike > > > > On Thu, 4 Oct 2012, Mike Miller wrote: > >> I installed Ubuntu 12.04 on a RAID1 array a few months ago and explained >> it >> all here: >> >> http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.tclug/20855 >> >> I have been running Unity on the box but I normally attach to it via VNC >> (with IceWM) in an SSH tunnel. A few days ago the VNC session hung on >> me and >> the Xvnc process was at 100% CPU. I had to kill it. (Probably a known >> bug, >> but I'll skip that story for now.) Before starting it up again, I ran >> update-manager from the console. I could see that there was something >> seriously wrong with Unity -- the task bar on the side had only one item >> in >> it, that was just a grayed out box, and it was unresponsive. After >> running >> update-manager I rebooted. I don't know what the exit status was for >> update-manager because it was gone and I don't know if it did much. >> >> After rebooting, I have this error: >> >> error:invalid magic number >> error:you need to load the kernel first >> >> Grub will show some options for other kernels. I have tried some, and >> none >> of them will boot. They hang with a bunch of info on the screen. >> >> Any ideas on how to proceed? What tests should I be doing to find the >> source >> of the problem? >> >> Thanks in advance. >> >> Mike >> > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 94, Issue 1 > ***************************************** > The first thing I would try is booting into a shell and running fsck on your boot disk. Reboot the machine and press e in the grub screen for edit. Go to the kernel line and press e to edit that line. Then add to the kernel line init=/bin/bash when you boot you go straight to the shell. then do a file system check on your boot drive fsck -t ext3 /dev/sdax t is for file system type in this case ext3 and the x in sdax is your partition number. sda is for sata drives, if you have an ide drive use hdax Most of the time its a file system error and was very common when I was doing raid arrays in my advanced linux classes. Bad super block is also common. If you are still having troubles run fsck from a live cd/usb. But you will have to run the cd in live mode, mount the offending drive, and chroot into the drive. As a last resort you can update-grub from the live cd after you have chroot'ed into you installed environment. Let me know what you encounter. ,Ron From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri Oct 5 15:14:42 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 15:14:42 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] bad magic number In-Reply-To: <03d18db2b12b27809a0daa0bcbad7b23.squirrel@www.ron-l-j.com> References: <03d18db2b12b27809a0daa0bcbad7b23.squirrel@www.ron-l-j.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Oct 2012, ron at ron-l-j.com wrote: > The first thing I would try is booting into a shell and running fsck on > your boot disk. > Reboot the machine and press e in the grub screen for edit. > Go to the kernel line and press e to edit that line. > Then add to the kernel line > > init=/bin/bash > > when you boot you go straight to the shell. > then do a file system check on your boot drive > fsck -t ext3 /dev/sdax > t is for file system type in this case ext3 > and the x in sdax is your partition number. > sda is for sata drives, if you have an ide drive use hdax > > Most of the time its a file system error and was very common when I was > doing raid arrays in my advanced linux classes. Bad super block is also > common. > If you are still having troubles run fsck from a live cd/usb. But you will > have to run the cd in live mode, mount the offending drive, and chroot > into the drive. > As a last resort you can update-grub from the live cd after you have > chroot'ed into you installed environment. > Let me know what you encounter. Thanks, Ron. (I'm cc'ing you in case you are doing digests only and want to see this before the digest comes in.) Did you see that I was able to boot up to the window manager login prompt using an earlier version of the kernel? Can I just take it from there? My impression right now is that the problem was caused by my failure to reboot for weeks after installing some packages that required rebooting. Then I installed 400 more packages before rebooting. Is that possibly the cause of my troubles? Could it be that I just need to fix the packages and reboot? The other issue is that I have a RAID1, so mirrored drives, and I think that means I don't want to fsck them one at a time. df shows this: $ sudo df -HT Filesystem Type Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on /dev/md1 ext4 3.0T 220G 2.6T 8% / udev devtmpfs 8.4G 13k 8.4G 1% /dev tmpfs tmpfs 3.4G 832k 3.4G 1% /run none tmpfs 5.3M 0 5.3M 0% /run/lock none tmpfs 8.4G 148k 8.4G 1% /run/shm Does that mean I would fsck /dev/md1? Thanks again. I really appreciate your taking the time to reply. (One thing I've learned -- I should run package-manager daily and try to reboot soon when it is required. I often have a lot of stuff running that I don't want to kill, so reboots are a hassle.) Mike From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Fri Oct 5 16:16:54 2012 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 16:16:54 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Wifi at Hennepin County Library (Edina) Message-ID: Hi everyone, Wondering if anyone else has had a problem connecting to Wifi at a Hennepin County library. I was at the Edina branch today, and I was not able to connect -- I could see a lot of available access points, but my machine continuously failed to get an IP address. I've got an older Thinkpad with an intel adapter. Here's the info from my dmesg: erikm at hemingway:~$ dmesg | grep iwl [ 6.417652] iwl3945: Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 3945ABG/BG Network Connection driver for Linux, in-tree:s [ 6.417656] iwl3945: Copyright(c) 2003-2011 Intel Corporation [ 6.417720] iwl3945 0000:03:00.0: PCI INT A -> GSI 17 (level, low) -> IRQ 17 [ 6.417736] iwl3945 0000:03:00.0: setting latency timer to 64 [ 6.473205] iwl3945 0000:03:00.0: Tunable channels: 11 802.11bg, 13 802.11a channels [ 6.473209] iwl3945 0000:03:00.0: Detected Intel Wireless WiFi Link 3945ABG [ 6.473359] iwl3945 0000:03:00.0: irq 49 for MSI/MSI-X [ 6.564456] ieee80211 phy0: Selected rate control algorithm 'iwl-3945-rs' [ 22.132836] iwl3945 0000:03:00.0: loaded firmware version 15.32.2.9 Unfortunately I didn't get details on the infrastructure they have at the library. I can probably go get that at some point in the next few days if necessary. Has anyone run into this kind of issue? -Erik -- Erik K. Mitchell erik.mitchell at gmail.com From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com Fri Oct 5 20:19:38 2012 From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 20:19:38 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Wifi at Hennepin County Library (Edina) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Not sure when you were there, but I think they still disable connectivity after hours. If it's during open hours, they have staff that can contact IT to see if others are having problems, or you could just e-mail the library directly to see if others are having issues. Not sure what distro / network config you're using, but is your dhcp client installed / up to date? Your wifi drivers shouldn't be the issue, most Intel chips work well practically out of the box on most distos (as appears to be the case with your log). Oh, sometimes the hardware toggle can cause problems - do you have a switch for that on your laptop? Check out rfkill if you do. -- Jeremy MountainJohnson Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Erik Mitchell wrote: > > Hi everyone, > Wondering if anyone else has had a problem connecting to Wifi at a > Hennepin County library. I was at the Edina branch today, and I was > not able to connect -- I could see a lot of available access points, > but my machine continuously failed to get an IP address. > > I've got an older Thinkpad with an intel adapter. Here's the info from my > dmesg: > > erikm at hemingway:~$ dmesg | grep iwl > [ 6.417652] iwl3945: Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 3945ABG/BG Network > Connection driver for Linux, in-tree:s > [ 6.417656] iwl3945: Copyright(c) 2003-2011 Intel Corporation > [ 6.417720] iwl3945 0000:03:00.0: PCI INT A -> GSI 17 (level, low) -> > IRQ 17 > [ 6.417736] iwl3945 0000:03:00.0: setting latency timer to 64 > [ 6.473205] iwl3945 0000:03:00.0: Tunable channels: 11 802.11bg, 13 > 802.11a channels > [ 6.473209] iwl3945 0000:03:00.0: Detected Intel Wireless WiFi Link > 3945ABG > [ 6.473359] iwl3945 0000:03:00.0: irq 49 for MSI/MSI-X > [ 6.564456] ieee80211 phy0: Selected rate control algorithm > 'iwl-3945-rs' > [ 22.132836] iwl3945 0000:03:00.0: loaded firmware version 15.32.2.9 > > > Unfortunately I didn't get details on the infrastructure they have at > the library. I can probably go get that at some point in the next few > days if necessary. > > Has anyone run into this kind of issue? > > -Erik > > -- > Erik K. Mitchell > erik.mitchell at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Fri Oct 5 23:29:25 2012 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 23:29:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands In-Reply-To: References: <20120409132148.Horde.BfqiD6iUW7BPgyi8RHniVtA@mail.dalan.us> <20120409135814.Horde.qo1FPaiUW7BPgzFGJeRDpWA@mail.dalan.us> Message-ID: in screen, bash may reference the current window as $WINDOW. in tmux, how may bash reference the current window? On 10 April 2012 09:21, Jake Vath wrote: > I don't mean to imply that tmux is, in any way, "better" than screen. I use > both quite often. > A lot of the things that I like about tmux can be done in screen, but I just > never really got around to do them. >... > I'll use whatever is available, but at home I'm using tmux. > > On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 9:06 AM, Erik Anderson wrote: >> On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 8:03 AM, Jake Vath wrote: >> > Personally, I'd prefer tmux. >> > Tmux has some features that I really enjoy. >> >> If you have the time, I'd love to hear what features tmux has that >> screen doesn't. I've been a heavy screen user for many years, and have >> heard many people talking about tmux, but have never committed to >> switching over. From cncole at earthlink.net Sat Oct 6 02:14:44 2012 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 02:14:44 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Wifi at Hennepin County Library (Edina) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Erik Mitchell > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:17 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: [tclug-list] Wifi at Hennepin County Library (Edina) > > Hi everyone, > Wondering if anyone else has had a problem connecting to Wifi > at a Hennepin County library. I was at the Edina branch > today, and I was not able to connect -- I could see a lot of > available access points, but my machine continuously failed > to get an IP address. > Normally, I must get the wifi card to "connect" (ie, grab RF signal carrier), and then open a browser so I can say OK to yheir intended usage policy. After that, IP assigned and it's open... But not until. The systems are never "wide open", in my experience. Most of my experience is at the York library in Edina. Haven't tried after hours in several years, but previously it was the same 24/7 when I tried. Chuck From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Sat Oct 6 08:10:25 2012 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 08:10:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Wifi at Hennepin County Library (Edina) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Normally, I must get the wifi card to "connect" (ie, grab RF signal > carrier), and then open a browser so I can say OK to yheir intended usage > policy. > After that, IP assigned and it's open... But not until. I would need to have an IP address before the browser is going to be able to communicate with their access point though. I'm not getting an IP address. I'll need to try again and see if I can get some better debug output to figure out what's happening. Thanks for your help. -Erik -- Erik K. Mitchell erik.mitchell at gmail.com From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Sat Oct 6 12:31:46 2012 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 12:31:46 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] yum --auto-remove Message-ID: "apt-get --auto-remove remove foo" will iiuc also remove any packages foo dragged in that are now no longer needed. any way to do similarly with yum? From cncole at earthlink.net Sat Oct 6 13:45:31 2012 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 13:45:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Wifi at Hennepin County Library (Edina) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Erik Mitchell > Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2012 8:10 AM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Wifi at Hennepin County Library (Edina) > > > Normally, I must get the wifi card to "connect" (ie, grab RF signal > > carrier), and then open a browser so I can say OK to yheir intended > > usage policy. > > After that, IP assigned and it's open... But not until. > > I would need to have an IP address before the browser is > going to be able to communicate with their access point > though. I'm not getting an IP address. I'm wrong about IP, then, but sequence is as described: connect at "carrier level", then do browser OK. Have not looked closely at exactly what happens when. Should be simple matter of doing as I described. Debug may be much harder. Chuck > > I'll need to try again and see if I can get some better debug > output to figure out what's happening. > > Thanks for your help. > > -Erik > -- > Erik K. Mitchell > erik.mitchell at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Sat Oct 6 13:53:11 2012 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 13:53:11 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Wifi at Hennepin County Library (Edina) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yep, I didn't get as far as getting an IP address so that I could agree to the usage agreement. As I understand it, you get an IP address, but the router does not let you out to the internet until you've agreed to the terms of use. -Erik On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 1:45 PM, Chuck Cole wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org >> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Erik Mitchell >> Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2012 8:10 AM >> To: TCLUG Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Wifi at Hennepin County Library (Edina) >> >> > Normally, I must get the wifi card to "connect" (ie, grab RF signal >> > carrier), and then open a browser so I can say OK to yheir intended >> > usage policy. >> > After that, IP assigned and it's open... But not until. >> >> I would need to have an IP address before the browser is >> going to be able to communicate with their access point >> though. I'm not getting an IP address. > > I'm wrong about IP, then, but sequence is as described: connect at > "carrier level", then do browser OK. Have not looked closely at exactly > what happens when. > > Should be simple matter of doing as I described. Debug may be much harder. > > Chuck > > >> >> I'll need to try again and see if I can get some better debug >> output to figure out what's happening. >> >> Thanks for your help. >> >> -Erik >> -- >> Erik K. Mitchell >> erik.mitchell at gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Erik K. Mitchell erik.mitchell at gmail.com From cncole at earthlink.net Sat Oct 6 14:10:25 2012 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 14:10:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Wifi at Hennepin County Library (Edina) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Erik Mitchell > Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2012 1:53 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Wifi at Hennepin County Library (Edina) > > Yep, I didn't get as far as getting an IP address so that I > could agree to the usage agreement. As I understand it, you > get an IP address, but the router does not let you out to the > internet until you've agreed to the terms of use. > > -Erik Yes. I think it wants to and will log your MAC for security purposes. Your end needs to be kinda dumb and open, I think. I had trouble with this the first time I tried their now old procedure, but not thereafter. Chuck From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Sun Oct 14 22:00:08 2012 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 22:00:08 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] IPv6 Message-ID: What do you think of ipv6? I've read that less than 1% of the traffic on the internet is ipv6 traffic. What baffles me about ipv6 is why they decided to go from 4 byte addresses to 16 bytes. Wouldn't 8 byte addresses make more sense? -- Brian Wood Ebenezer Enterprises http://webEbenezer.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eminmn at sysmatrix.net Sun Oct 14 22:30:06 2012 From: eminmn at sysmatrix.net (Ed C.) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 22:30:06 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] IPv6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <507B833E.9030302@sysmatrix.net> > > What do you think of ipv6? I've read that less than 1% > of the traffic on the internet is ipv6 traffic. I think it's a great idea. We could go back to the old peer-to-peer arpanet architecture. Even set up an independant parallel internet just for the Twin Cities. > > What baffles me about ipv6 is why they decided to go > from 4 byte addresses to 16 bytes. Wouldn't 8 byte > addresses make more sense? That would be a big enough address space for all the people, animals, and plants, but to give virtually everything its own ip address you might need the full set of 3.4028236692093846346337460743177e+38 addresses. See here for history and sociology of ip4: http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/digital-imprimatur/ especially the appendices. Ed > > -- > Brian Wood > Ebenezer Enterprises > http://webEbenezer.net > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From erikerik at gmail.com Mon Oct 15 08:25:30 2012 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 08:25:30 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] IPv6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 10:00 PM, Brian Wood wrote: > > What do you think of ipv6? I've read that less than 1% > of the traffic on the internet is ipv6 traffic. IPv6 is vastly superior to v4 in nearly every way except perhaps in that it's more difficult to memorize v6 addresses. Most of the RIRs still have at least a few IPv4 netblocks available for assignment. This includes ARIN, our RIR, which has the equivalent of ~2.8 /8s available still. Unfortunately many companies are taking a "stick our head in the sand" approach and won't seriously think about transitioning their networks to v6 until they absolutely need to. Needless to say, this is a very foolish stance - you never want to put yourself in a position where you are *forced* to make a huge change like this. Some small internal LANs may not transition for many many years. Fortunately is seems as if most ISPs are taking the transition seriously and many have either IPv6 in production or in beta. Comcast, for instance, has been using IPv6 to manage their OOB administrative network for years. Is *your* website/email/etc available via v6? If not, get on it! Does the software you write support v6? There is very much a chicken/egg problem here, and the more resources available via v6, the faster eyeball networks will make the transition. > What baffles me about ipv6 is why they decided to go > from 4 byte addresses to 16 bytes. Wouldn't 8 byte > addresses make more sense? Absolutely not. Making a change like this is a *big deal*, both in terms of money (to upgrade/replace network infrastructure) as well as in terms of having to learn a new technology. As such, it was very wise for the IP governing boards to not just make an incremental bump in the IP address space, but make a *huge* increase. This decision ensures that we won't need to go through this whole process again in the foreseeable future. -Erik From tclug at beitsahour.net Mon Oct 15 09:54:42 2012 From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 09:54:42 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] IPv6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 10:00 PM, Brian Wood wrote: > > What do you think of ipv6? I've read that less than 1% > of the traffic on the internet is ipv6 traffic. I've been native ipv6 at home for over a year now. Sites that do not have native ipv6 i'm tunneling with HE. It is nice having a virtually unlimited number of publicly addressable ip addresses, and i've noticed that the ssh handshake is slightly faster over ipv6, not sure why this would be, i have not done any tests yet to confirm. ipv6 is the future and if you are a technologist you will need to learn it, might as well start now. From nesius at gmail.com Mon Oct 15 11:54:47 2012 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 11:54:47 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] IPv6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Don't forget IPv6 has three bits allocated for planet-based addressing/routing. A very handy feature! -Rob Sent from my iPad On Oct 15, 2012, at 9:54 AM, Munir Nassar wrote: > On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 10:00 PM, Brian Wood wrote: >> >> What do you think of ipv6? I've read that less than 1% >> of the traffic on the internet is ipv6 traffic. > > I've been native ipv6 at home for over a year now. Sites that do not > have native ipv6 i'm tunneling with HE. > > It is nice having a virtually unlimited number of publicly addressable > ip addresses, and i've noticed that the ssh handshake is slightly > faster over ipv6, not sure why this would be, i have not done any > tests yet to confirm. > > ipv6 is the future and if you are a technologist you will need to > learn it, might as well start now. > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jus at krytosvirus.com Mon Oct 15 12:30:28 2012 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 12:30:28 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] IPv6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1350322228.8238.80.camel@sysadmin3a> A handful of links for IPv6 deployment information Article http://www.networkworld.com/news/2012/092412-next-gen-internet-262671.html Hodge podge of variour reports http://bgp.he.net/ipv6-progress-report.cgi Akamai provides tons of hosting for companies, including a big chunk of the government mandated IPv6 support for various US government agencies. http://www.akamai.com/ipv6 Summary + Statistics Report (left side navigation link) http://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/index.html If you play with the google statistics report you can see, though still in the 1% range, the recent spike in growth rate in 2012, it grew ~ 0.5% in the year.... and the rate of growth is likely to accelerate with the advancement of many ISPs/companies becoming fully IPv6 enabled on their networks (as noted in my first link) and sites like Youtube, Facebook, Google, Yahoo, Netflix, etc all advertising IPv6 records for their sites. IPv6 is not going away, IPv4 will be (sometime many years in the future). You don't want to ignore IPv6. The reason for changing to 128-bit addressing instead of something like 64-bit addressing is to simplify networking and routing efficiency. With IPv4 we're so worried about host address utilization which forces network operators to subnet and de-aggregate networks. This means there are more subnets to route and more subnetting. With IPv6 there is effectively no limit to the number of hosts you can put onto a LAN subnet (assuming a standard of /64 mask size). And as Erik so succinctly pointed out, we don't want to have to re-do this mammoth overhaul of our Internet (operating systems, appliances, network routers and switches, legacy applications, etc) again. Of course there is the ever informative XKCD's take on the limitation of 128-bit addressing... http://xkcd.com/865/ On Sun, 2012-10-14 at 22:00 -0500, Brian Wood wrote: > > What do you think of ipv6? I've read that less than 1% > of the traffic on the internet is ipv6 traffic. > > What baffles me about ipv6 is why they decided to go > from 4 byte addresses to 16 bytes. Wouldn't 8 byte > addresses make more sense? > > -- > Brian Wood > Ebenezer Enterprises > http://webEbenezer.net > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Mon Oct 15 14:15:22 2012 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 14:15:22 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] IPv6 Message-ID: Erik Anderson: > Absolutely not. > > Making a change like this is a *big deal*, both in terms of money (to > upgrade/replace network infrastructure) as well as in terms of having > to learn a new technology. As such, it was very wise for the IP > governing boards to not just make an incremental bump in the IP > address space, but make a *huge* increase. This decision ensures that > we won't need to go through this whole process again in the > foreseeable future. 8 bytes is a huge increase. IPv4 has lasted longer than expected so I can't imagine 8 bytes being exhausted in the future. I read that 16 byte addresses can address more atoms than are thought to exist. >From a practical point of view I think the 16 byte addresses are a mistake. Systems have to work through all of that before they can start to do something useful. That's a good reason not to switch to IPv6. I believe you about IPv6 being an improvement over IPv4 in a number of ways, but think the length of the addresses was a mistake. I don't think anyone is paying for IPv6 specific upgrades to hardware. When they upgrade for a practical reason, the hardware they get is more IPv6 capable than what they had. Brian Wood Ebenezer Enterprises http://webEbenezer.net (651) 251-9384 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ecrist at secure-computing.net Mon Oct 15 14:37:28 2012 From: ecrist at secure-computing.net (Eric Crist) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 14:37:28 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] IPv6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Oct 15, 2012, at 14:15:22, Brian Wood wrote: > Erik Anderson: > > > Absolutely not. > > > > Making a change like this is a *big deal*, both in terms of money (to > > upgrade/replace network infrastructure) as well as in terms of having > > to learn a new technology. As such, it was very wise for the IP > > governing boards to not just make an incremental bump in the IP > > address space, but make a *huge* increase. This decision ensures that > > we won't need to go through this whole process again in the > > foreseeable future. > > > 8 bytes is a huge increase. IPv4 has lasted longer than expected > so I can't imagine 8 bytes being exhausted in the future. I read that > 16 byte addresses can address more atoms than are thought to exist. > From a practical point of view I think the 16 byte addresses are > a mistake. Systems have to work through all of that before they > can start to do something useful. That's a good reason not to > switch to IPv6. I believe you about IPv6 being an improvement > over IPv4 in a number of ways, but think the length of the addresses > was a mistake. > > I don't think anyone is paying for IPv6 specific upgrades to hardware. > When they upgrade for a practical reason, the hardware they get is > more IPv6 capable than what they had. Part of IPv6 is to use the existing MAC address for auto-configured addresses. Being that there are already supposed to be enough of THOSE for everything to be uniquely addressed, then you have to add network addressing on top of that, it was probably just 'easier' to increase the address space to accommodate those. ----- Eric F Crist From erikerik at gmail.com Mon Oct 15 14:38:21 2012 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 14:38:21 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] IPv6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 2:15 PM, Brian Wood wrote: > Systems have to work through all of that before they > can start to do something useful. That's a good reason not to > switch to IPv6. It's a tiny drop in the bucket compared to the advancements in processor speed, network equipment capabilities, etc. All network routing equipment worth its salt is doing this all in hardware at line-speed anyway, so what does it matter? > I don't think anyone is paying for IPv6 specific upgrades to hardware. > When they upgrade for a practical reason, the hardware they get is > more IPv6 capable than what they had. That is just plain incorrect. From jima at beer.tclug.org Mon Oct 15 18:25:41 2012 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 17:25:41 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] IPv6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <507C9B75.4090905@beer.tclug.org> On 2012-10-14 21:00, Brian Wood wrote: > What do you think of ipv6? I'm a fan of it. I've been using it for about 10 years now; I've enabled everything I've deployed personally for the last 5+ years, and bring tunnels (via HE/SixXS or homegrown using OpenVPN) wherever I can't get native. I advocate. I mentor. I answer questions -- lots of questions. I help others get it up and running in their environments. I patch software to enable support. I specifically declare IPv6 to be a technical requirement for new circuits and equipment (to mixed results). What have you done with or for IPv6? > I've read that less than 1% of the traffic on the internet is ipv6 > traffic. Yep! That's a lot of progress, considering how few networks, web sites, and consumer CPE support IPv6. > What baffles me about ipv6 is why they decided to go > from 4 byte addresses to 16 bytes. Wouldn't 8 byte > addresses make more sense? What baffles me is when people look at their small environments, don't see a personal need for IPv6, and write off other people's need for it, its features, and the amount of work new protocol deployment takes on a global scale. No, 64-bit host addresses wouldn't "make more sense." If you're thinking of the IPv6 address space as 128-bit host addresses, you're doing it wrong. Think of it as 64-bit network addresses, each with an irrelevant number of hosts. The lower 64 bits were engineered for autoconfiguration, and can be ignored for 90+% of scalability discussions. Jima From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Tue Oct 16 22:13:05 2012 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 22:13:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] IPv6 Message-ID: From: Jima > > What have you done with or for IPv6? A week or so of IPv6 programming in the code here -- http://webEbenezer.net/build_integration.html . > No, 64-bit host addresses wouldn't "make more sense." If you're > thinking of the IPv6 address space as 128-bit host addresses, you're > doing it wrong. Think of it as 64-bit network addresses, each with an > irrelevant number of hosts. The lower 64 bits were engineered for > autoconfiguration, and can be ignored for 90+% of scalability discussions. An IPv6 packet header has the source and destination addresses -- both 16 bytes. The header is 40 bytes total. If the addresses were 8 bytes the header would be 24 bytes. I'm not sure what you mean by ignoring the lower 64 bits in scalability discussions. -- Brian Wood Ebenezer Enterprises http://webEbenezer.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sulrich at botwerks.org Wed Oct 17 08:43:40 2012 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 08:43:40 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] IPv6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 10:00 PM, Brian Wood wrote: > > What do you think of ipv6? I've read that less than 1% > of the traffic on the internet is ipv6 traffic. there really isn't much to think about re: IPv6. it's the way forward unless you have some perverse love for NATs. there's a good chunk of the world that's still not connected to the global internet and they need address space too. europe and asia have exhausted their IPv4 allocations. get crackin' the fact that only 1% of the internet traffic is IPv6 based is a huge improvement from where we were and is largely a function of the technology industry's myopia. 1st mile networks in north america have been very lagged in adding the necessary capabilities and will require in many instances some level of forklift upgrade. folks will have to learn to love the tunnel for a while in some geographies. asian and european networks are considerably further along in much of this already. > What baffles me about ipv6 is why they decided to go > from 4 byte addresses to 16 bytes. Wouldn't 8 byte > addresses make more sense? -- steve ulrich (sulrich at botwerks.*) From jus at krytosvirus.com Wed Oct 17 12:49:02 2012 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 12:49:02 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] IPv6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1350496142.18111.67.camel@sysadmin3a> On Tue, 2012-10-16 at 22:13 -0500, Brian Wood wrote: > From: Jima > > > > > What have you done with or for IPv6? > > A week or so of IPv6 programming in the code here -- > http://webEbenezer.net/build_integration.html > . > > > No, 64-bit host addresses wouldn't "make more sense." If you're > > thinking of the IPv6 address space as 128-bit host addresses, you're > > doing it wrong. Think of it as 64-bit network addresses, each with > an > > irrelevant number of hosts. The lower 64 bits were engineered for > > autoconfiguration, and can be ignored for 90+% of scalability > discussions. > > An IPv6 packet header has the source and destination addresses -- > both > 16 bytes. The header is 40 bytes total. If the addresses were 8 > bytes > the header would be 24 bytes. I'm not sure what you mean by ignoring > the > lower 64 bits in scalability discussions. You might be confusing bits and bytes. An IPv6 address is 128-bits (16 bytes). The lower 64-bits of a single IPv6 address means the right half of an IPv6 address when reading it. Jima's specific reference was to SLAAC, see the wikipedia article on that for example. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6_address#Stateless_address_autoconfiguration From sfertch at gmail.com Thu Oct 18 16:46:32 2012 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 16:46:32 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] For sale: Server rack with 4U server case Message-ID: I'm moving and need to clear out a 19" server rack. This is an older 5.5' tall HP9000 rack with the round mounting holes instead of the square. Comes with the following: 4U rack mountable server case Shelf IBM keyboard w/nub button mouse monitor Belkin OmniView SE 4port KVM (PS/2 connections) APC Network Surge Arrest Mounting rails (4 pr I think) Ortronics cable system There are a number of 1U front panels installed. Has both sides and a rear door (tucked away inside one of the side panels). Also, a front anti-tip base (removable and stored in a side panel). http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n485/sfertch/2012-10-16_13-29-08_326.jpg http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n485/sfertch/2012-10-16_13-29-25_314.jpg Asking $50/bo for everything (not interested in splitting it apart). I live in Forest Lake and will help you load it into your vehicle. -- -Shawn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sfertch at gmail.com Thu Oct 18 17:14:02 2012 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 17:14:02 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] For sale: Server rack with 4U server case In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rack is spoken for. Thanks for the interest! On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Shawn Fertch wrote: > I'm moving and need to clear out a 19" server rack. This is an older 5.5' > tall HP9000 rack with the round mounting holes instead of the square. > Comes with the following: > > > 4U rack mountable server case > Shelf > IBM keyboard w/nub button mouse > monitor > Belkin OmniView SE 4port KVM (PS/2 connections) > APC Network Surge Arrest > Mounting rails (4 pr I think) > Ortronics cable system > > > There are a number of 1U front panels installed. Has both sides and a > rear door (tucked away inside one of the side panels). Also, a front > anti-tip base (removable and stored in a side panel). > > > > http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n485/sfertch/2012-10-16_13-29-08_326.jpg > > > http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n485/sfertch/2012-10-16_13-29-25_314.jpg > > > > Asking $50/bo for everything (not interested in splitting it apart). I > live in Forest Lake and will help you load it into your vehicle. > > > -- > -Shawn > > > > -- -Shawn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marc at e-skinner.net Fri Oct 19 08:28:50 2012 From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 08:28:50 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] For Sale: 2 x 48 port switches Message-ID: <50815592.8020605@e-skinner.net> 1 x 3COM 3c16476 48 port with 2 1 gb ports 1 x Cisco 3548 XL with 2 1 gb GBIC ports - includes 1 copper 1 gb GBIC Looking for $10 each. Thanks. From marc at e-skinner.net Fri Oct 19 09:35:53 2012 From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 09:35:53 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] For Sale: 2 x 48 port switches In-Reply-To: <50815592.8020605@e-skinner.net> References: <50815592.8020605@e-skinner.net> Message-ID: <50816549.9020606@e-skinner.net> Cisco is SOLD. On 10/19/2012 08:28 AM, Marc Skinner wrote: > 1 x 3COM 3c16476 48 port with 2 1 gb ports > 1 x Cisco 3548 XL with 2 1 gb GBIC ports - includes 1 copper 1 gb GBIC > > > Looking for $10 each. > > Thanks. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com Sat Oct 20 13:54:08 2012 From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 13:54:08 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Early look at Windows 8 baffles consumers Message-ID: <20121020135408.116b07c90d1416f4e8cb9589@jasonhsu.com> http://news.yahoo.com/early-look-windows-8-baffles-consumers-162627568--finance.html It looks like Microsoft hasn't learned from the controversies over Ubuntu's Unity interface and GNOME 3, both of which were intended to work on mobile devices but ended up alienating desktop users. Given that the average Windows user is more averse to change than the average Linux user, I think Windows 8 will be a flop. The Unity and GNOME 3 controversies resulted in happy endings because of the diversity of the Linux world. People who don't like GNOME 3 or the new Ubuntu have many great alternatives in the Linux universe (starting with Linux Mint and Mageia). The Microsoft universe doesn't have this diversity. In my opinion, Windows Vista reminds me of the Chevrolet Vega. I think Windows 8 will go down in history as the Microsoft version of the Chevrolet Citation (and its clones) and the Oldsmobile diesel engine. GM bled away market share in the 1980s, and the same thing may be about to happen to Microsoft. -- Jason Hsu From tclug at beitsahour.net Sat Oct 20 16:50:57 2012 From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 16:50:57 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] any old CRTs to be gotten rid of? Message-ID: A friend needs a couple of old CRT monitors for a photoshoot and they do not need to be in working order. I am sure you all have some in the basement somewhere gathering dust and in need of a home. I'll make sure they get sent to a good home or recycling afterwards. Thank you From jimdscott at gmail.com Sat Oct 20 16:59:09 2012 From: jimdscott at gmail.com (Jim Scott) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 16:59:09 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] any old CRTs to be gotten rid of? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have one, an old 17 inch monitor that no longer works, along with some very old monochrome monitors. Let me know if you are interested in any of them. On Oct 20, 2012 4:51 PM, "Munir Nassar" wrote: > A friend needs a couple of old CRT monitors for a photoshoot and they > do not need to be in working order. I am sure you all have some in the > basement somewhere gathering dust and in need of a home. I'll make > sure they get sent to a good home or recycling afterwards. > > Thank you > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dylan.miracle at gmail.com Sat Oct 20 18:06:22 2012 From: dylan.miracle at gmail.com (Dylan Miracle) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 18:06:22 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] any old CRTs to be gotten rid of? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <535CC31F-3BDE-4699-94CE-7BAB1F11F475@gmail.com> We have a number that will be recycled at freegeek. You can just bring them back to us for recycling when you are done. If you want more info email me or take a look at the website. freegeektwincities.org Dylan On Oct 20, 2012, at 4:50 PM, Munir Nassar wrote: > A friend needs a couple of old CRT monitors for a photoshoot and they > do not need to be in working order. I am sure you all have some in the > basement somewhere gathering dust and in need of a home. I'll make > sure they get sent to a good home or recycling afterwards. > > Thank you > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tonyyarusso at gmail.com Sun Oct 21 18:01:30 2012 From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 18:01:30 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] any old CRTs to be gotten rid of? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have one - last I checked it even worked. Location is Shoreview, or work in Falcon Heights. - Tony From nesius at gmail.com Mon Oct 22 12:52:54 2012 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 12:52:54 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Early look at Windows 8 baffles consumers In-Reply-To: <20121020135408.116b07c90d1416f4e8cb9589@jasonhsu.com> References: <20121020135408.116b07c90d1416f4e8cb9589@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 1:54 PM, Jason Hsu wrote: > > http://news.yahoo.com/early-look-windows-8-baffles-consumers-162627568--finance.html > > It looks like Microsoft hasn't learned from the controversies over > Ubuntu's Unity interface and GNOME 3, both of which were intended to work > on mobile devices but ended up alienating desktop users. Given that the > average Windows user is more averse to change than the average Linux user, > I think Windows 8 will be a flop. > > The Unity and GNOME 3 controversies resulted in happy endings because of > the diversity of the Linux world. People who don't like GNOME 3 or the new > Ubuntu have many great alternatives in the Linux universe (starting with > Linux Mint and Mageia). The Microsoft universe doesn't have this diversity. > > In my opinion, Windows Vista reminds me of the Chevrolet Vega. I think > Windows 8 will go down in history as the Microsoft version of the Chevrolet > Citation (and its clones) and the Oldsmobile diesel engine. GM bled away > market share in the 1980s, and the same thing may be about to happen to > Microsoft. In windows-land, I'm very happy with Win 7 Pro. Still not a place I like doing development work for FOSS stuff, but for every-day stuff and gaming, it's really quite good. I see Windows 8 as a potential Vista - the version you don't want. I also think Win 7 will be the new XP - in being the first OS really capable of displacing XP, it will likely hang around in the enterprise for a decade. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com Tue Oct 23 01:12:37 2012 From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 01:12:37 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound Install Fest/Release Party October 27th Message-ID: <50863555.3020704@Goecke-Dolan.com> This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be Saturday October 27th at TIES, 1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108 from 9:00am to 5:00pm (See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more info.) This month at the Penguins Unbound Meeting will be Install Fest! 12.10 Release Party! Mini-Swap Meet! October 27th 9:00am to 5:00pm So bring your computer and come on down and install the new Ubuntu 12.10 or any Linux distribution you like! The doors will be open from 9:00am to 5:00pm We will also have a mini-swap meet! You are welcome to bring items to sell, swap, trade or give away. *Please* be sure to not leave an items at TIES. Neither me or TIES can not be responsible to take care of unwanted items. If you pack it in please pack it out! Hope to see you there. ==>brian. I will try to stream some of the install fest. I am not sure I will stream the whole time, so if it isn't working you should try again later. Thanks. *** STREAMING *** If you can't make it you can use this url to stream the meeting. mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 You should be able to connect with either: mplayer mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 or vlc http://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Wed Oct 24 12:18:03 2012 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 13:18:03 -0400 Subject: [tclug-list] 10 years of on line C++ code generation Message-ID: The C++Middleware Writer -- http://webEbenezer.net -- has now been available on line for ten years. I've been encouraged to find an on line Java code generator in the past few years -- http://springfuse.com . Thanks for the suggestions on how to improve the C++ Middleware Writer that have been made. The work has been interesting and I've enjoyed the challenge of creating a quality service. Please let me know if you have more ideas on what needs work. https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/comp.lang.c$2B$2B/middleware$20writer|sort:date/comp.lang.c++/-mQu9dYvDfI/WPcAyaks6ooJ Regards, Brian Ebenezer Enterprises http://webEbenezer.net http://blogs.wsj.com/corporate-intelligence/2012/10/23/the-october-surprise-corporate-americas-backward-slide-dents-job-prospects/ http://www.twincities.com/business/ci_21843208/imation-3q-revenue-off-20-percent-layoffs-coming -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com Fri Oct 26 02:54:58 2012 From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 02:54:58 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] *Saturday* Penguins Unbound Install Fest/Release Party October 27th Message-ID: <508A41D2.4070600@Goecke-Dolan.com> Saturday October 27th at TIES, 1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108 from 9:00am to 5:00pm (See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more info.) This month at the Penguins Unbound Meeting will be Install Fest! 12.10 Release Party! Mini-Swap Meet! October 27th 9:00am to 5:00pm So bring your computer and come on down and install the new Ubuntu 12.10 or any Linux distribution you like! The doors will be open from 9:00am to 5:00pm We will also have a mini-swap meet! You are welcome to bring items to sell, swap, trade or give away. *Please* be sure to not leave an items at TIES. Neither me or TIES can not be responsible to take care of unwanted items. If you pack it in please pack it out! Hope to see you there. ==>brian. I will try to stream some of the install fest. I am not sure I will stream the whole time, so if it isn't working you should try again later. Thanks. *** STREAMING *** If you can't make it you can use this url to stream the meeting. mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 You should be able to connect with either: mplayer mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 or vlc http://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 From wdtj at yahoo.com Tue Oct 30 12:22:39 2012 From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 10:22:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] IPv6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1351617759.54642.YahooMailNeo@web121504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> One of the benefits of the 16 byte address was to remove the dependence on hierarchy.? With the 4 byte address there is partitioning of the address between countries, RIRs, service providers, companies, networks, sites, and finally resolving to a node.? By adding to the address space it allows for "mobile" ip addresses.? The same ip address at work also works at home regardless of who or what the ISP is. ? --- Wayne Johnson,???????????? | There are two kinds of people: Those 3943 Penn Ave. N.????????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done," Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, (612) 522-7003???????????? | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis >________________________________ > From: Brian Wood >To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 2:15 PM >Subject: Re: [tclug-list] IPv6 > > >Erik Anderson: > >> Absolutely not. >> >> Making a change like this is a *big deal*, both in terms of money (to >> upgrade/replace network infrastructure) as well as in terms of having >> to learn a new technology. As such, it was very wise for the IP >> governing boards to not just make an incremental bump in the IP >> address space, but make a *huge* increase. This decision ensures that >> we won't need to go through this whole process again in the >> foreseeable future. > > >8 bytes is a huge increase.? IPv4 has lasted longer than expected >so I can't imagine 8 bytes being exhausted in the future.? I read that >16 byte addresses can address more atoms than are thought to exist. >From a practical point of view I think the 16 byte addresses are >a mistake.? Systems have to work through all of that before they >can start to do something useful.? That's a good reason not to >switch to IPv6. I believe you about IPv6 being an improvement >over IPv4 in a number of ways, but think the length of the addresses >was a mistake. > >I don't think anyone is paying for IPv6 specific upgrades to hardware. >When they upgrade for a practical reason, the hardware they get is >more IPv6 capable than what they had. > > > >Brian Wood >Ebenezer Enterprises >http://webEbenezer.net >(651) 251-9384 > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list at mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Tue Oct 30 14:27:25 2012 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:27:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] ubuntu yum list installed Message-ID: how do i ask apt-cache or dpkg which repository each installed package came from? From chrome at real-time.com Tue Oct 30 15:20:18 2012 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:20:18 -0400 Subject: [tclug-list] ubuntu yum list installed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20121030202018.GA493@real-time.com> On 10/30 02:27 , gregrwm wrote: > how do i ask apt-cache or dpkg which repository each installed package > came from? apt-cache policy will tell you which repository it *will* pull a package from; if you want to know where it came from, I don't think that's in any of the logs. (Please, someone prove me wrong). -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Wed Oct 31 13:43:45 2012 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 14:43:45 -0400 Subject: [tclug-list] IPv6 Message-ID: From: Wayne Johnson > One of the benefits of the 16 byte address was to remove the dependence > on hierarchy.? With the 4 byte address there is partitioning of the address > between countries, RIRs, service providers, companies, networks, sites, > and finally resolving to a node.? By adding to the address space it allows > for "mobile" ip addresses.? The same ip address at work also works at > home regardless of who or what the ISP is. Microsoft says: "Unlike the current IPv4-based Internet, which has a mixture of both flat and hierarchical routing, the IPv6-based Internet has been designed from its foundation to support efficient, hierarchical addressing and routing." 8 byte addresses would provide for more than 4 billion addresses for each IPv4 address. --- > Wayne Johnson,???????????? | There are two kinds of people: Those > 3943 Penn Ave. N.????????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done," > Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, > (612) 522-7003 <%28612%29%20522-7003>???????????? | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis If you are in the latter camp, I hope on election day you will join the "Thy will be done" camp, and vote yes on the marriage amendment. Children deserve to have a father and a mother. -- Brian Wood Ebenezer Enterprises http://webEbenezer.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wdtj at yahoo.com Wed Oct 31 14:25:13 2012 From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 12:25:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] IPv6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1351711513.23292.YahooMailNeo@web121503.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Microsoft says: "Unlike the current IPv4-based Internet, which has a mixture of both flat and >hierarchical routing, the IPv6-based Internet has been designed from its >foundation to support efficient, hierarchical addressing and routing."? >I did a research paper on IPv6 a couple of years ago and one of the talking points from IETF was the the mobility vs hierarchy tradeoff. >8 byte addresses would provide for more than 4 billion addresses for >each IPv4 address.??? > > >--- >> Wayne Johnson,???????????? ? ? ? ? ? ? | There are two kinds of people: Those >> 3943 Penn Ave. N.????????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done," >> Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, >> (612) 522-7003???????????? ? ? ? ? ? ? | then, ?have it your way." --C.S. Lewis > >If you are in the latter camp, I hope on election day you will >join the "Thy will be done" camp, and vote yes on the marriage >amendment.? Children deserve to have a father and a mother. > I concur.? But I know furthering this discussion will likely draw the ire of the readers of this mailing list as being off topic. > >-- >Brian Wood >Ebenezer Enterprises >http://webEbenezer.net > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list at mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jima at beer.tclug.org Wed Oct 31 14:31:49 2012 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 13:31:49 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [tclug-list] IPv6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46567.2001:49f0:a057:0:7d13:90a1:f3fe:ffd0.1351711909.squirrel@laughton.us> On Wednesday, Oct 31 2012, Brian Wall wrote: > Microsoft says: > "Unlike the current IPv4-based Internet, which has a mixture of both flat > and > hierarchical routing, the IPv6-based Internet has been designed from its > foundation to support efficient, hierarchical addressing and routing." > > 8 byte addresses would provide for more than 4 billion addresses for > each IPv4 address. That's great, although irrelevant. From that proposed 64-bit addressing scheme, how many bits do you suggest should be dedicated to subnets vs. hosts? Since it will be less than 64 (obviously) and most likely 48 (since 16-bit subnet addressing already doesn't really work), what are you recommending for stateless address auto-configuration? IPv6's SLAAC uses EUI-64/EUI-48/MAC-48 addresses ("MAC addresses") in conjunction with the prefix learned from Router Advertisements to generate a given host's IPv6 address as an alternative to using a DHCP server. Does your theoretical addressing scheme still rely on DHCP for non-static addressing? I don't presume to know more about internet protocol design than the folks who designed IPv6. Perhaps they thought of a few things you or I didn't? >> "There are two kinds of people: Those who say to God, "Thy will be done," >> and those to whom God says, "All right, then, have it your way." >> --C.S. Lewis > > If you are in the latter camp, I hope on election day you will > join the "Thy will be done" camp, and vote yes on the marriage > amendment. Children deserve to have a father and a mother. Please keep your politics and/or religious spamming off our technical mailing list, unless you want a purely technical conversation on the subject. Jima From Craig.A.Smith at honeywell.com Wed Oct 31 14:59:33 2012 From: Craig.A.Smith at honeywell.com (Smith, Craig A (MN14)) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 19:59:33 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] IPv6 In-Reply-To: <46567.2001:49f0:a057:0:7d13:90a1:f3fe:ffd0.1351711909.squirrel@laughton.us> References: <46567.2001:49f0:a057:0:7d13:90a1:f3fe:ffd0.1351711909.squirrel@laughton.us> Message-ID: <994D9F23C50CD44BA7A8AED87EC114C7106F6E47@de08ex3001.global.ds.honeywell.com> Jima wrote: > Please keep your politics and/or religious spamming off our technical mailing list, unless you want a purely technical conversation on the subject. Agreed. Since this isn't the first time Mr. Wood has been cautioned on this, I propose a "3 strikes" rule. Mailman can permanently block abusive addresses under Privacy Options... [Sender Filters].