From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sun Apr 1 13:10:18 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 13:10:18 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] testing that RAID1 is working using mdadm Message-ID: I want to be sure that my RAID1 is working properly. What's the best way to do that? I tried mdadm --detail (see below) and I guess mdadm thinks it is working, but one part surprises me: "Array Size" is different for the two disks. Is that normal? The disks are two identical 2TB drives. Mike $ sudo mdadm --detail /dev/md[01] [sudo] password for [user]: /dev/md0: Version : 00.90 Creation Time : Tue Oct 4 11:45:48 2011 Raid Level : raid1 Array Size : 1945312384 (1855.19 GiB 1992.00 GB) Used Dev Size : 1945312384 (1855.19 GiB 1992.00 GB) Raid Devices : 2 Total Devices : 1 Preferred Minor : 0 Persistence : Superblock is persistent Update Time : Sun Apr 1 12:54:52 2012 State : clean, degraded Active Devices : 1 Working Devices : 1 Failed Devices : 0 Spare Devices : 0 UUID : d64b75e8:e8767139:e368bf24:bd0fce41 Events : 0.2357380 Number Major Minor RaidDevice State 0 8 1 0 active sync /dev/sda1 1 0 0 1 removed /dev/md1: Version : 00.90 Creation Time : Tue Oct 4 11:46:13 2011 Raid Level : raid1 Array Size : 8200960 (7.82 GiB 8.40 GB) Used Dev Size : 8200960 (7.82 GiB 8.40 GB) Raid Devices : 2 Total Devices : 1 Preferred Minor : 1 Persistence : Superblock is persistent Update Time : Sun Apr 1 00:57:01 2012 State : clean, degraded Active Devices : 1 Working Devices : 1 Failed Devices : 0 Spare Devices : 0 UUID : 90b1095c:d6dd36a1:e368bf24:bd0fce41 Events : 0.241 Number Major Minor RaidDevice State 0 8 2 0 active sync /dev/sda2 1 0 0 1 removed From florin at iucha.net Sun Apr 1 13:18:32 2012 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 13:18:32 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] testing that RAID1 is working using mdadm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120401181831.GF21261@styx.iucha.org> On Sun, Apr 01, 2012 at 01:10:18PM -0500, Mike Miller wrote: > I want to be sure that my RAID1 is working properly. What's the best way > to do that? I tried mdadm --detail (see below) and I guess mdadm thinks > it is working, but one part surprises me: "Array Size" is different for > the two disks. Is that normal? The disks are two identical 2TB drives. > > $ sudo mdadm --detail /dev/md[01] > [sudo] password for [user]: /dev/md0: > Version : 00.90 > Creation Time : Tue Oct 4 11:45:48 2011 > Raid Level : raid1 > Array Size : 1945312384 (1855.19 GiB 1992.00 GB) > Used Dev Size : 1945312384 (1855.19 GiB 1992.00 GB) > Raid Devices : 2 > Total Devices : 1 > Preferred Minor : 0 > Persistence : Superblock is persistent > > Update Time : Sun Apr 1 12:54:52 2012 > State : clean, degraded ^^^^^^^^ > Active Devices : 1 > Working Devices : 1 > Failed Devices : 0 > Spare Devices : 0 > > UUID : d64b75e8:e8767139:e368bf24:bd0fce41 > Events : 0.2357380 > > Number Major Minor RaidDevice State > 0 8 1 0 active sync /dev/sda1 > 1 0 0 1 removed ^^^^^^^ > /dev/md1: > Version : 00.90 > Creation Time : Tue Oct 4 11:46:13 2011 > Raid Level : raid1 > Array Size : 8200960 (7.82 GiB 8.40 GB) > Used Dev Size : 8200960 (7.82 GiB 8.40 GB) > Raid Devices : 2 > Total Devices : 1 > Preferred Minor : 1 > Persistence : Superblock is persistent > > Update Time : Sun Apr 1 00:57:01 2012 > State : clean, degraded ^^^^^^^^ > Active Devices : 1 > Working Devices : 1 > Failed Devices : 0 > Spare Devices : 0 > > UUID : 90b1095c:d6dd36a1:e368bf24:bd0fce41 > Events : 0.241 > > Number Major Minor RaidDevice State > 0 8 2 0 active sync /dev/sda2 > 1 0 0 1 removed ^^^^^^^ It seems that you have two RAID devices, md0 and md1, each supported by one partition on sda. There is no other physical disk present, so the arrays are in degraded state. They 'work', but only one disk is present. You have no protection. You have no second drive. Cheers, florin -- Beware of software written by optimists! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sun Apr 1 16:00:57 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 16:00:57 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] testing that RAID1 is working using mdadm In-Reply-To: <20120401181831.GF21261@styx.iucha.org> References: <20120401181831.GF21261@styx.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Apr 2012, Florin Iucha wrote: > It seems that you have two RAID devices, md0 and md1, each supported by > one partition on sda. There is no other physical disk present, so the > arrays are in degraded state. They 'work', but only one disk is > present. You have no protection. You have no second drive. If you are right, that means the message I sent back in October about how to do the RAID1 did not work for me. It would also mean that the RAID1 that Brian set up for me back in November 2008 has also not been working at all for the past 3+ years (see below). I really need to do this right next time. I'm about to setup another one of these software RAID1s on Ubuntu and I want to be sure it is done right. Mike /dev/md0: Version : 00.90 Creation Time : Sat Nov 8 15:51:28 2008 Raid Level : raid1 Array Size : 497856 (486.27 MiB 509.80 MB) Used Dev Size : 497856 (486.27 MiB 509.80 MB) Raid Devices : 2 Total Devices : 2 Preferred Minor : 0 Persistence : Superblock is persistent Update Time : Sun Apr 1 15:57:08 2012 State : clean Active Devices : 2 Working Devices : 2 Failed Devices : 0 Spare Devices : 0 UUID : e73853db:6d5e7f50:84e30963:12d268d1 Events : 0.1165 Number Major Minor RaidDevice State 0 8 1 0 active sync /dev/sda1 1 8 17 1 active sync /dev/sdb1 /dev/md1: Version : 00.90 Creation Time : Sat Nov 8 15:52:34 2008 Raid Level : raid1 Array Size : 241641600 (230.45 GiB 247.44 GB) Used Dev Size : 241641600 (230.45 GiB 247.44 GB) Raid Devices : 2 Total Devices : 2 Preferred Minor : 1 Persistence : Superblock is persistent Update Time : Sun Apr 1 15:57:42 2012 State : clean Active Devices : 2 Working Devices : 2 Failed Devices : 0 Spare Devices : 0 UUID : 9085d832:e894c575:4aa0e109:4d0f2d0c Events : 0.14258807 Number Major Minor RaidDevice State 0 8 3 0 active sync /dev/sda3 1 8 19 1 active sync /dev/sdb3 From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sun Apr 1 16:06:59 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 16:06:59 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] testing that RAID1 is working using mdadm In-Reply-To: References: <20120401181831.GF21261@styx.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Apr 2012, Mike Miller wrote: > On Sun, 1 Apr 2012, Florin Iucha wrote: > >> It seems that you have two RAID devices, md0 and md1, each supported by >> one partition on sda. There is no other physical disk present, so the >> arrays are in degraded state. They 'work', but only one disk is >> present. You have no protection. You have no second drive. > > If you are right, that means the message I sent back in October about how to > do the RAID1 did not work for me. Here's that message from October: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/2011-October/061034.html Does anyone see anything wrong in it? Mike From marc at e-skinner.net Sun Apr 1 17:55:08 2012 From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner) Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2012 17:55:08 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] testing that RAID1 is working using mdadm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F78DCCC.5090002@e-skinner.net> According to your output your Raid1 has failed. It looks like one of the drives is disconnected or has failed. Look at Total Device number = 1, it should be 2 since your doing Raid 1 with 2 devices. ALso - look at State = Clean,degraded, it should say clean I would make sure all your data is backed up before you start doing anything else. Good luck! On 04/01/2012 01:10 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > I want to be sure that my RAID1 is working properly. What's the best way > to do that? I tried mdadm --detail (see below) and I guess mdadm thinks > it is working, but one part surprises me: "Array Size" is different for > the two disks. Is that normal? The disks are two identical 2TB drives. > > Mike > > > $ sudo mdadm --detail /dev/md[01] > [sudo] password for [user]: /dev/md0: > Version : 00.90 > Creation Time : Tue Oct 4 11:45:48 2011 > Raid Level : raid1 > Array Size : 1945312384 (1855.19 GiB 1992.00 GB) > Used Dev Size : 1945312384 (1855.19 GiB 1992.00 GB) > Raid Devices : 2 > Total Devices : 1 > Preferred Minor : 0 > Persistence : Superblock is persistent > > Update Time : Sun Apr 1 12:54:52 2012 > State : clean, degraded > Active Devices : 1 > Working Devices : 1 > Failed Devices : 0 > Spare Devices : 0 > > UUID : d64b75e8:e8767139:e368bf24:bd0fce41 > Events : 0.2357380 > > Number Major Minor RaidDevice State > 0 8 1 0 active sync /dev/sda1 > 1 0 0 1 removed > /dev/md1: > Version : 00.90 > Creation Time : Tue Oct 4 11:46:13 2011 > Raid Level : raid1 > Array Size : 8200960 (7.82 GiB 8.40 GB) > Used Dev Size : 8200960 (7.82 GiB 8.40 GB) > Raid Devices : 2 > Total Devices : 1 > Preferred Minor : 1 > Persistence : Superblock is persistent > > Update Time : Sun Apr 1 00:57:01 2012 > State : clean, degraded > Active Devices : 1 > Working Devices : 1 > Failed Devices : 0 > Spare Devices : 0 > > UUID : 90b1095c:d6dd36a1:e368bf24:bd0fce41 > Events : 0.241 > > Number Major Minor RaidDevice State > 0 8 2 0 active sync /dev/sda2 > 1 0 0 1 removed > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sun Apr 1 18:52:59 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 18:52:59 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] testing that RAID1 is working using mdadm In-Reply-To: <4F78DCCC.5090002@e-skinner.net> References: <4F78DCCC.5090002@e-skinner.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Apr 2012, Marc Skinner wrote: > According to your output your Raid1 has failed. It looks like one of > the drives is disconnected or has failed. > > Look at Total Device number = 1, it should be 2 since your doing Raid 1 > with 2 devices. > > ALso - look at State = Clean,degraded, it should say clean > > I would make sure all your data is backed up before you start doing > anything else. Is it possible that it was just set up wrong in the first place? Do you know why it says "Failed Devices: 0"? I don't understand the output, but does this imply that the drive appears as if it had been removed: Number Major Minor RaidDevice State 0 8 2 0 active sync /dev/sda2 1 0 0 1 removed I was assuming it was right and I didn't know how to test it after I first set it up. I'm more aware now about that issue. Thanks. Mike > On 04/01/2012 01:10 PM, Mike Miller wrote: >> I want to be sure that my RAID1 is working properly. What's the best way >> to do that? I tried mdadm --detail (see below) and I guess mdadm thinks >> it is working, but one part surprises me: "Array Size" is different for >> the two disks. Is that normal? The disks are two identical 2TB drives. >> >> Mike >> >> >> $ sudo mdadm --detail /dev/md[01] >> [sudo] password for [user]: /dev/md0: >> Version : 00.90 >> Creation Time : Tue Oct 4 11:45:48 2011 >> Raid Level : raid1 >> Array Size : 1945312384 (1855.19 GiB 1992.00 GB) >> Used Dev Size : 1945312384 (1855.19 GiB 1992.00 GB) >> Raid Devices : 2 >> Total Devices : 1 >> Preferred Minor : 0 >> Persistence : Superblock is persistent >> >> Update Time : Sun Apr 1 12:54:52 2012 >> State : clean, degraded >> Active Devices : 1 >> Working Devices : 1 >> Failed Devices : 0 >> Spare Devices : 0 >> >> UUID : d64b75e8:e8767139:e368bf24:bd0fce41 >> Events : 0.2357380 >> >> Number Major Minor RaidDevice State >> 0 8 1 0 active sync /dev/sda1 >> 1 0 0 1 removed >> /dev/md1: >> Version : 00.90 >> Creation Time : Tue Oct 4 11:46:13 2011 >> Raid Level : raid1 >> Array Size : 8200960 (7.82 GiB 8.40 GB) >> Used Dev Size : 8200960 (7.82 GiB 8.40 GB) >> Raid Devices : 2 >> Total Devices : 1 >> Preferred Minor : 1 >> Persistence : Superblock is persistent >> >> Update Time : Sun Apr 1 00:57:01 2012 >> State : clean, degraded >> Active Devices : 1 >> Working Devices : 1 >> Failed Devices : 0 >> Spare Devices : 0 >> >> UUID : 90b1095c:d6dd36a1:e368bf24:bd0fce41 >> Events : 0.241 >> >> Number Major Minor RaidDevice State >> 0 8 2 0 active sync /dev/sda2 >> 1 0 0 1 removed From nesius at gmail.com Sun Apr 1 20:43:20 2012 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 20:43:20 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] testing that RAID1 is working using mdadm In-Reply-To: References: <4F78DCCC.5090002@e-skinner.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Sun, 1 Apr 2012, Marc Skinner wrote: > > According to your output your Raid1 has failed. It looks like one of the >> drives is disconnected or has failed. >> > > > Is it possible that it was just set up wrong in the first place? Not directly related to your question, Mike, but last year I noticed while reading about LVM that you can set up software raid mirrors with it too. LVM offers a nice, clear set of abstractions that make it clear when you're working with physical partitions, logical partitions, and logical volumes. I'm not sure if there's a difference between a mirror set up with LVM versus mdadm. Have you looked for a GUI for mdadm? It looks like webmin has a gui for it... http://michal.karzynski.pl/blog/2009/11/18/mdadm-gui-via-webmin/ -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From florin at iucha.net Sun Apr 1 21:10:49 2012 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 21:10:49 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] testing that RAID1 is working using mdadm In-Reply-To: References: <20120401181831.GF21261@styx.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20120402021048.GG21261@styx.iucha.org> On Sun, Apr 01, 2012 at 04:06:59PM -0500, Mike Miller wrote: > On Sun, 1 Apr 2012, Mike Miller wrote: > >> On Sun, 1 Apr 2012, Florin Iucha wrote: >> >>> It seems that you have two RAID devices, md0 and md1, each supported >>> by one partition on sda. There is no other physical disk present, so >>> the arrays are in degraded state. They 'work', but only one disk is >>> present. You have no protection. You have no second drive. >> >> If you are right, that means the message I sent back in October about >> how to do the RAID1 did not work for me. > > Here's that message from October: > > http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/2011-October/061034.html > > Does anyone see anything wrong in it? I am not sure. You have done this: sudo mdadm --create /dev/md0 --level 1 --raid-devices 2 /dev/sda1 /dev/sdb1 --metadata=0.90 sudo mdadm --create /dev/md1 --level 1 --raid-devices 2 /dev/sda2 /dev/sdb2 --metadata=0.90 http://www.devil-linux.org/documentation/1.0.x/ch01s05.html says this: mdadm --create /dev/md0 --chunk=64 --level=raid1 --raid-devices=2 /dev/hda1 /dev/hdc1 which seems to match the man page: http://linux.die.net/man/8/mdadm My impression is that you need to either use the short version of the arguments and then a space and then the value, or the long version separated by = from the actual value. In other words -l 1 --level=1 --level=raid1 are OK. You entered "--level 1", which may work or may not - I have no system to test it on right now. Cheers, florin -- Beware of software written by optimists! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Sun Apr 1 22:40:04 2012 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 22:40:04 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] testing that RAID1 is working using mdadm In-Reply-To: References: <4F78DCCC.5090002@e-skinner.net> Message-ID: Mike Miller cried from the depths of the abyss... > > Is it possible that it was just set up wrong in the first place? It is possible, but impossible to tell. > Do you know > why it says "Failed Devices: 0"? I don't understand the output, but does > this imply that the drive appears as if it had been removed: > > Number Major Minor RaidDevice State > 0 8 2 0 active sync /dev/sda2 > 1 0 0 1 removed > > I was assuming it was right and I didn't know how to test it after I first > set it up. I'm more aware now about that issue. 1) The Drive is Dead 2) The Drive is Disconnected 3) Something went terribly wrong, and was never set-up correctly. I will dig out the instruction I sent to you last year, and go over them. What I sent over is how I always do RAID 1 on Slack ware & Cent OS. Should be the same on Bunt. Here is a sample of a working RAID 1 output /Dev/MD0: Version : 0.90 Creation Time : Sun Oct 31 06:24:03 2010 Raid Level : raid1 Array Size : 974201472 (929.07 Gib 997.58 GB) Used Dev Size : 974201472 (929.07 Gib 997.58 GB) Raid Devices : 2 Total Devices : 2 Preferred Minor : 0 Persistence : Super block is persistent Update Time : Sun Apr 1 22:39:58 2012 State : clean Active Devices : 2 Working Devices : 2 Failed Devices : 0 Spare Devices : 0 QUID : f4AA1802:7b982307:cafe0ac:29d0065e Events : 0.44 Number Major Minor Raid Device State 0 8 2 0 active sync /Dev/sad2 1 8 18 1 active sync /Dev/SD2 /Dev/MD1: Version : 0.90 Creation Time : Sun Oct 31 06:24:24 2010 Raid Level : raid1 Array Size : 2559936 (2.44 Gib 2.62 GB) Used Dev Size : 2559936 (2.44 Gib 2.62 GB) Raid Devices : 2 Total Devices : 2 Preferred Minor : 1 Persistence : Super block is persistent Update Time : Sun Apr 1 22:39:52 2012 State : clean Active Devices : 2 Working Devices : 2 Failed Devices : 0 Spare Devices : 0 QUID : ab2689AF:0fa92398:b73b082c:05f90ab6 Events : 0.38 Number Major Minor Raid Device State 0 8 1 0 active sync /Dev/sad1 1 8 17 1 active sync /Dev/SD1 Mr. B-o-B -- "I want to learn the ways of the Source, and be a Jedi like my Father" From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Sun Apr 1 23:11:22 2012 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 23:11:22 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] testing that RAID1 is working using mdadm In-Reply-To: References: <20120401181831.GF21261@styx.iucha.org> Message-ID: Mike Miller cried from the depths of the abyss... >> If you are right, that means the message I sent back in October about how >> to do the RAID1 did not work for me. > > Here's that message from October: > > http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/2011-October/061034.html > > Does anyone see anything wrong in it? I didn't see anything wrong in your link. Something might have gone bad when you converted the disks from GPT to MBR, but I don't know. I went over the instructions I sent you last year, and cleaned them up a little. All checks out, so this should work fine. Here ya go: Try to do the raid prep/setup outside of the Ubuntu installer first (This is just my preference). This is how I setup software RAID 1's, and this has worked every time for me. I have to be honest I haven't done this on Ubuntu, but I did just load the latest Ubuntu live cd to check, and all the commands exist so this should work fine. I have done this >30 times on Slackware, and a handful of times on Centos & Fedora. I actually used a Slackware install disk to setup the raid's on Fedora & Centos, but this is not necessary. The Ubuntu disk will work just fine. I personally like fdisk to create my partitions, but can use cfdisk (or anything else Ubuntu might have that you like). One disk 1 (lets call it /dev/sda) Create at least two partitions (one for swap & one for /). Change the types on both partitions to "Linux RAID autodetect" type "FD". I like to leave a coupe hundred megs free at the end of the disk just in case I need to replace one latter that isn't exactly the same size. This of course is optional. Now copy your partitions to the 2nd drive (lets call it /dev/sdb) like: sfdisk -d /dev/sda | sfdisk /dev/sdb When this command finishes it will display your Raid disk/partition scheme. both drives should match. Next create your raid 1's 1st - root partition (or swap depending how you created your partitions) mdadm --create /dev/md0 --level 1 --raid-devices 2 \ /dev/sda1 /dev/sdb1 --metadata=0.90 Do the same for your other partition mdadm --create /dev/md1 --level 1 --raid-devices 2 \ /dev/sda2 /dev/sdb2 --metadata=0.90 Now format your swap array (assuming your swap is /dev/md1) mkswap /dev/md1 Now start your install like normal. You should see /dev/md1 available for your swap, and /dev/md0 available for your root. At this point I must take a step back. I'm old school, and prefer LILO on my boxes. For GRUB you will need to do the following post install (prior to reboot). I am guessing that UBUNTU(not sure, don't really use it) will attempt to install grub for you(install in to your MBR). If it does it most likely will fail (I've been surprised before though, and perhaps those sneaky people over at Ubuntu have this figured out). If it fails that is OK. Let's just play it safe & assume it's all F-ed up, and we are going to make it right. put grub on disk 1's MBR: grub-install --root-directory=/boot /dev/sda cd /boot/boot/grub touch menu.lst Create a menu.lst for GRUB. I usually do something like this: timeout 10 title Linux root (hd0,0) kernel /vmlinuz root=/dev/md0 ro boot (not sure the naming scheme for Ubuntu, so double check the kernel part & make sure to point the root= to the proper /dev/md# for your root partition) Save this, and take a peek at your /etc/fstab file to make sure your swap & / are pointing to /dev/md0 & /dev/md1 /dev/md1 swap swap defaults 0 0 /dev/md0 / ext3 defaults 1 1 FOR LILO (if anyone else uses it anymore besides me), here is how to handle that. Same as with GRUB, this needs to be completed post-install, but prior to reboot - also installed to your disk 1 MBR. Edit /etc/lilo.conf add a new line with: raid-extra-boot = mbr-only change the "boot" option to point to your raid 1 partition like: boot = /dev/md0 save & exit issue the "lilo" command to rewrite it to the MBR. Reboot & enjoy the ride. Please note these notes only apply to RAID 1 setups. RAID 0 & RAID 5 is similar, but the config is slightly different. Just wanted to throw that out there. issue: mdadm --detail /dev/md[01] this should show you a working raid 1 like so: mdadm --detail /dev/md[01] /dev/md0: Version : 00.90.03 Creation Time : Thu Feb 5 06:53:49 2009 Raid Level : raid1 Array Size : 37012160 (35.30 GiB 37.90 GB) Used Dev Size : 37012160 (35.30 GiB 37.90 GB) Raid Devices : 2 Total Devices : 2 Preferred Minor : 0 Persistence : Superblock is persistent Update Time : Sun Apr 1 23:01:28 2012 State : clean Active Devices : 2 Working Devices : 2 Failed Devices : 0 Spare Devices : 0 UUID : bc437f7e:296132cc:6681f900:c6d698d4 Events : 0.8 Number Major Minor RaidDevice State 0 3 1 0 active sync /dev/hda1 1 3 65 1 active sync /dev/hdb1 /dev/md1: Version : 00.90.03 Creation Time : Thu Feb 5 06:54:47 2009 Raid Level : raid1 Array Size : 1953408 (1907.95 MiB 2000.29 MB) Used Dev Size : 1953408 (1907.95 MiB 2000.29 MB) Raid Devices : 2 Total Devices : 2 Preferred Minor : 1 Persistence : Superblock is persistent Update Time : Sun Apr 1 19:18:19 2012 State : clean Active Devices : 2 Working Devices : 2 Failed Devices : 0 Spare Devices : 0 UUID : b9b064c6:63055849:d60f5ccb:8d370dd1 Events : 0.6 Number Major Minor RaidDevice State 0 3 2 0 active sync /dev/hda2 1 3 66 1 active sync /dev/hdb2 Good Luck! Mr. B-o-B -- "I want to learn the ways of the Source, and be a Jedi like my Father" From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Apr 2 09:18:38 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 09:18:38 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] testing that RAID1 is working using mdadm In-Reply-To: References: <4F78DCCC.5090002@e-skinner.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Apr 2012, Mr. B-o-B wrote: > 1) The Drive is Dead > 2) The Drive is Disconnected > 3) Something went terribly wrong, and was never set-up correctly. I'll be studying this further, but I would put my money on "1" because I remember hearing a strange noise coming from inside the box a few weeks ago. At the time I wondered if it was one of the HDDs. I wasn't sure how to check if they both were working. Then I forgot about it until now. That machine is important to me, but not as important as the other machine I am about to set up. In fact, the RAID1 on the machine in question was done partly as practice for setting up this other machine. Thanks *very* much, Mr. B-o-B for your help with this. You have done a lot for me and I really appreciate it. Mike From wdtj at yahoo.com Mon Apr 2 09:39:56 2012 From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 07:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] testing that RAID1 is working using mdadm In-Reply-To: References: <4F78DCCC.5090002@e-skinner.net> Message-ID: <1333377596.93948.YahooMailNeo@web162005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> cat /proc/mdstat is your best friend when running mdm raid.? It tells you the current state of each "drive" as well as the state of the components.? Example from my machine: Personalities : [raid1] md0 : active raid1 sda3[1] ????? 243175808 blocks [2/1] [_U] unused devices: I have one raid one device, md0.? It has one dead device (the _).? ? --- Wayne Johnson,???????????? | There are two kinds of people: Those 3943 Penn Ave. N.????????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done," Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, (612) 522-7003???????????? | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis >________________________________ > From: Mike Miller >To: TCLUG Mailing List >Sent: Monday, April 2, 2012 9:18 AM >Subject: Re: [tclug-list] testing that RAID1 is working using mdadm > >On Sun, 1 Apr 2012, Mr. B-o-B wrote: > >> 1)??? The Drive is Dead >> 2)??? The Drive is Disconnected >> 3)??? Something went terribly wrong, and was never set-up correctly. > >I'll be studying this further, but I would put my money on "1" because I remember hearing a strange noise coming from inside the box a few weeks ago.? At the time I wondered if it was one of the HDDs.? I wasn't sure how to check if they both were working.? Then I forgot about it until now. > >That machine is important to me, but not as important as the other machine I am about to set up.? In fact, the RAID1 on the machine in question was done partly as practice for setting up this other machine. > >Thanks *very* much, Mr. B-o-B for your help with this.? You have done a lot for me and I really appreciate it. > >Mike >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list at mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Apr 2 10:03:58 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 10:03:58 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] testing that RAID1 is working using mdadm In-Reply-To: <1333377596.93948.YahooMailNeo@web162005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <4F78DCCC.5090002@e-skinner.net> <1333377596.93948.YahooMailNeo@web162005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Apr 2012, Wayne Johnson wrote: > cat /proc/mdstat > is your best friend when running mdm raid.? It tells you the current state of each "drive" as well as the state of the components.? > > > Example from my machine: > Personalities : [raid1] > md0 : active raid1 sda3[1] > ????? 243175808 blocks [2/1] [_U] > > unused devices: > > I have one raid one device, md0.? It has one dead device (the _).? Here's what my messed-up machine is showing: Personalities : [linear] [multipath] [raid0] [raid1] [raid6] [raid5] [raid4] [raid10] md1 : active raid1 sda2[0] 8200960 blocks [2/1] [U_] md0 : active raid1 sda1[0] 1945312384 blocks [2/1] [U_] unused devices: Here's what my other (probably OK) machine is showing: Personalities : [raid1] [linear] [multipath] [raid0] [raid6] [raid5] [raid4] [raid10] md1 : active raid1 sdb3[1] sda3[0] 241641600 blocks [2/2] [UU] md0 : active raid1 sdb1[1] sda1[0] 497856 blocks [2/2] [UU] unused devices: I think I'm starting to understand this a little bit. So the md1 and md0 are the two partitions that are being mirrored on the two drives. When I see this... [2/2] [UU] That means things are working OK, but when I see this... [2/1] [U_] It means that one of the drives has failed. Thanks! Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Apr 2 10:06:32 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 10:06:32 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] fixing a RAID1 after drive failure In-Reply-To: References: <4F78DCCC.5090002@e-skinner.net> <1333377596.93948.YahooMailNeo@web162005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Suppose one drive failed in my RAID1 mirrored pair. Can I then simply pull the bad drive, replace it with a good one (brand new), and have it work? Will it just automagically rebuild the RAID1 by mirroring onto the new drive? This is Ubuntu software RAID1. Mike From wdtj at yahoo.com Mon Apr 2 10:26:37 2012 From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 08:26:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] fixing a RAID1 after drive failure In-Reply-To: References: <4F78DCCC.5090002@e-skinner.net> <1333377596.93948.YahooMailNeo@web162005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1333380397.63752.YahooMailNeo@web162004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Actually, in my experience, the drive may not have a permement failue.? You can re-activate the drive again, it will resync the failed drive, and you are running again.? If it happens too frequently, replace the drive.? ? --- Wayne Johnson,???????????? | There are two kinds of people: Those 3943 Penn Ave. N.????????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done," Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, (612) 522-7003???????????? | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis >________________________________ > From: Mike Miller >To: TCLUG Mailing List >Sent: Monday, April 2, 2012 10:06 AM >Subject: [tclug-list] fixing a RAID1 after drive failure > >Suppose one drive failed in my RAID1 mirrored pair.? Can I then simply pull the bad drive, replace it with a good one (brand new), and have it work?? Will it just automagically rebuild the RAID1 by mirroring onto the new drive? > >This is Ubuntu software RAID1. > >Mike >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list at mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Apr 2 10:38:01 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 10:38:01 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] fixing a RAID1 after drive failure In-Reply-To: <1333380397.63752.YahooMailNeo@web162004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <4F78DCCC.5090002@e-skinner.net> <1333377596.93948.YahooMailNeo@web162005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1333380397.63752.YahooMailNeo@web162004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Apr 2012, Wayne Johnson wrote: > On Mon, 2 Apr 2012, Mike Miller wrote: > >> Suppose one drive failed in my RAID1 mirrored pair.? Can I then simply >> pull the bad drive, replace it with a good one (brand new), and have it >> work?? Will it just automagically rebuild the RAID1 by mirroring onto >> the new drive? >> >> This is Ubuntu software RAID1. > > Actually, in my experience, the drive may not have a permement failue.? > You can re-activate the drive again, it will resync the failed drive, > and you are running again.? If it happens too frequently, replace the > drive.? How do I reactivate a drive? That sounds like a great idea. Mike From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Mon Apr 2 10:50:13 2012 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 10:50:13 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] testing that RAID1 is working using mdadm In-Reply-To: References: <4F78DCCC.5090002@e-skinner.net> Message-ID: Mike Miller cried from the depths of the abyss... > Thanks *very* much, Mr. B-o-B for your help with this. You have done a lot > for me and I really appreciate it. It is my pleasure Mike! I am going to try this on an old PC this afternoon to test on Ubuntu. What version of Ubuntu are you going to be installing on the new machine where you plan to do the RAID 1. I'll grab that version, and give it a try. Should work fine, but I am curious if the procedure is different for some reason or another in Ubuntu. Thanks! Mr. B-o-B -- "I want to learn the ways of the Source, and be a Jedi like my Father" From dean at ripperd.com Mon Apr 2 11:09:54 2012 From: dean at ripperd.com (Dean) Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 11:09:54 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] fixing a RAID1 after drive failure In-Reply-To: References: <4F78DCCC.5090002@e-skinner.net> <1333377596.93948.YahooMailNeo@web162005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1333380397.63752.YahooMailNeo@web162004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4F79CF52.5060101@ripperd.com> On 4/2/2012 10:38 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Mon, 2 Apr 2012, Wayne Johnson wrote: > >> On Mon, 2 Apr 2012, Mike Miller wrote: >> >>> Suppose one drive failed in my RAID1 mirrored pair. Can I then >>> simply pull the bad drive, replace it with a good one (brand new), >>> and have it work? Will it just automagically rebuild the RAID1 by >>> mirroring onto the new drive? >>> >>> This is Ubuntu software RAID1. >> >> Actually, in my experience, the drive may not have a permement >> failue. You can re-activate the drive again, it will resync the >> failed drive, and you are running again. If it happens too >> frequently, replace the drive. > > How do I reactivate a drive? That sounds like a great idea. > > Mike > On the new drive you will need to create new MD raid partitions. From there you will use mdadm to add the partition to the raid array: mdadm --manage /dev/md0 --add /dev/sdXX (where sdXX is your partition of type md you just created) then do a "watch cat /proc/mdstat" to watch it rebuild. You may also want to reload your bootloader on the drive so that grub is on both sides of your mirror. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Mon Apr 2 11:15:27 2012 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 11:15:27 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] fixing a RAID1 after drive failure In-Reply-To: References: <4F78DCCC.5090002@e-skinner.net> <1333377596.93948.YahooMailNeo@web162005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1333380397.63752.YahooMailNeo@web162004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Mike Miller cried from the depths of the abyss... > How do I reactivate a drive? That sounds like a great idea. Here is a decent link that explains the process well: http://www.kernelhardware.org/replacing-failed-raid-drive/ Good Luck! Mr. B-o-B -- "I want to learn the ways of the Source, and be a Jedi like my Father" From wdtj at yahoo.com Mon Apr 2 11:44:04 2012 From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 09:44:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] fixing a RAID1 after drive failure In-Reply-To: References: <4F78DCCC.5090002@e-skinner.net> <1333377596.93948.YahooMailNeo@web162005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1333380397.63752.YahooMailNeo@web162004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1333385044.64739.YahooMailNeo@web162006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> It's been a while since I did this.? A search on google gives http://www.tcpdump.com/kb/os/linux/removing-failed-raid-devices.html which seems right. The commands (you will have to adjust it for your configuration) would be: mdadm /dev/md0 --fail /dev/sdc1 This will fail the suspect drive (if not already). mdadm /dev/md0 --remove /dev/sdc1 This will remove the drive from the array. mdadm /dev/md0 --add /dev/sdc1 This adds the drive back into the array.? It will then resync the failed drive.? You can see this by doing cat /proc/mdstat: # cat /proc/mdstat Personalities : [raid6] [raid5] [raid4] md0 : active raid5 sdc1[1] sdb1[0] sdd1[2] 8385664 blocks level 5, 64k chunk, algorithm 2 [3/2] [U_U] [=========>...........]? recovery = 47.8% (2007428/4192832) finish=0.5min speed=62732K/sec unused devices: ? --- Wayne Johnson,???????????? | There are two kinds of people: Those 3943 Penn Ave. N.????????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done," Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, (612) 522-7003???????????? | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis >________________________________ > From: Mike Miller >To: Wayne Johnson ; TCLUG Mailing List >Sent: Monday, April 2, 2012 10:38 AM >Subject: Re: [tclug-list] fixing a RAID1 after drive failure > >On Mon, 2 Apr 2012, Wayne Johnson wrote: > >> On Mon, 2 Apr 2012, Mike Miller wrote: >> >>> Suppose one drive failed in my RAID1 mirrored pair.? Can I then simply pull the bad drive, replace it with a good one (brand new), and have it work?? Will it just automagically rebuild the RAID1 by mirroring onto the new drive? >>> >>> This is Ubuntu software RAID1. >> >> Actually, in my experience, the drive may not have a permement failue.? You can re-activate the drive again, it will resync the failed drive, and you are running again.? If it happens too frequently, replace the drive.? > >How do I reactivate a drive?? That sounds like a great idea. > >Mike > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marc at e-skinner.net Mon Apr 2 13:29:41 2012 From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner) Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 13:29:41 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] fixing a RAID1 after drive failure In-Reply-To: <1333385044.64739.YahooMailNeo@web162006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <4F78DCCC.5090002@e-skinner.net> <1333377596.93948.YahooMailNeo@web162005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1333380397.63752.YahooMailNeo@web162004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1333385044.64739.YahooMailNeo@web162006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4F79F015.1030707@e-skinner.net> If you do have to replace the drive - you will need to add the new drive, then partition the new drive to match the old drive partition size layout, make them as type "fd" and then do the -add command for each partition you are re-adding into your mirror sets using mdadm. Good luck! On 04/02/2012 11:44 AM, Wayne Johnson wrote: > It's been a while since I did this. A search on google gives > http://www.tcpdump.com/kb/os/linux/removing-failed-raid-devices.html > which seems right. > > The commands (you will have to adjust it for your configuration) would be: > > mdadm /dev/md0 --fail /dev/sdc1 > This will fail the suspect drive (if not already). > > mdadm /dev/md0 --remove /dev/sdc1 > This will remove the drive from the array. > > mdadm /dev/md0 --add /dev/sdc1 > This adds the drive back into the array. It will then resync the failed > drive. You can see this by doing cat /proc/mdstat: > > # cat /proc/mdstat > Personalities : [raid6] [raid5] [raid4] > md0 : active raid5 sdc1[1] sdb1[0] sdd1[2] > 8385664 blocks level 5, 64k chunk, algorithm 2 [3/2] [U_U] > [=========>...........] recovery = 47.8% (2007428/4192832) finish=0.5min > speed=62732K/sec > > unused devices: > > > > --- > Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those > 3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," > Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, > (612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Mike Miller > *To:* Wayne Johnson ; TCLUG Mailing List > > *Sent:* Monday, April 2, 2012 10:38 AM > *Subject:* Re: [tclug-list] fixing a RAID1 after drive failure > > On Mon, 2 Apr 2012, Wayne Johnson wrote: > > > On Mon, 2 Apr 2012, Mike Miller wrote: > > > >> Suppose one drive failed in my RAID1 mirrored pair. Can I then > simply pull the bad drive, replace it with a good one (brand new), > and have it work? Will it just automagically rebuild the RAID1 by > mirroring onto the new drive? > >> > >> This is Ubuntu software RAID1. > > > > Actually, in my experience, the drive may not have a permement > failue. You can re-activate the drive again, it will resync the > failed drive, and you are running again. If it happens too > frequently, replace the drive. > > How do I reactivate a drive? That sounds like a great idea. > > Mike > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Mon Apr 2 17:02:17 2012 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 17:02:17 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] testing that RAID1 is working using mdadm In-Reply-To: References: <4F78DCCC.5090002@e-skinner.net> Message-ID: Mr. B-o-B cried from the depths of the abyss... > What version of Ubuntu are you going to be installing on the new machine > where you plan to do the RAID 1. I'll grab that version, and give it a try. > Should work fine, but I am curious if the procedure is different for some > reason or another in Ubuntu. OK. I gave this a try, and can confirm the below instructions worked on Unbuntu. I grabbed a recently decommissioned HP Compaq dc5750 microtower, pulled the old drive, and installed two 500G disks. I had to tweak a couple things from the original instructions I sent over, but the below is confirmed for Ubuntu. *IMPORTANT* To use these instructions you must use the Ubuntu alternate installer disk (not the normal desktop install disk). I believe the normal (GUI) installer disk has a raid option setup, but I never trust those things. Since this is important, let's do it right (and not let the installer make bad assumptions). Also the alternate disk has all the commands required, and the regular doesn't (although you could apt-get mdadm on the regular if needed) I used the latest ubuntu-11.10-alternate-i386 in this example (the ncurses based installer made me fell a little more at home (Slackware-ish look/feel - nice :) ). Boot the alt install disk select "rescue a broken system" continue through the prompts until you get to "Device to use as root file system" -> select "Do not use a root file system" Rescue operations (menu) -> select: "Execute a shell in the installer environment" this will bring up a shell. In this shell you don't need to do any sudo's, just straight commands. fdisk /dev/sda Note that fdisk has a 2TB limit, so if your new disks are >2TB you will need to use 'parted' instead. If this is the case there is a lot of how to's about it on the net. I created 2 partitions (partition 1 for swap (3000M) & partition 2 for / (450G)) make sure to change both partitions to type FD - Linux RAID Autodetect I left a handful of G's available (I do this so if you need to replace a drive from a different brand you have insurance room in case the new drive size if diff). Write the new partitions to disk. To keep it simple here I just make a swap & a root partition. You can of course make as many partitions as you want to suit your needs. sfdisk -d /dev/sda | sfdisk --force /dev/sdb mdadm --create /dev/md0 --level 1 --raid-devices 2 \ /dev/sda1 /dev/sdb1 --metadata=0.90 It will prompt you to "Continue creating array?" -> YES Do the same for your other partition mdadm --create /dev/md1 --level 1 --raid-devices 2 \ /dev/sda2 /dev/sdb2 --metadata=0.90 It will prompt you to "Continue creating array?" -> YES Format your swap partition mkswap /dev/md0 Reboot the box shutdown -r now Boot up the alternate installer disk again & choose the top most option "Install Ubuntu" Follow the instructions/prompts until you get to the "Partition Disks" setup. At this point choose "MANUAL" (bottom option) partition setup. Raid1 device #0 should already show up as SWAP (mime did). No need to change anything. Raid1 device #1 -> select -> choose file sys ext4 (or whatever you like for a filesys) -> select / as mount point -> Format the partition - > YES then select finish partitioning & write changes to disk do u want to boot if degraded -> YES (since grub is on 2 disks MBR this is OK & you still want to boot if there is a prob so you can repair it. More importantly you want it to boot either way.) write to disks - YES Carry on with the install until (smoke'm if you got'm for awhile) Install Grub to MBR -> YES I noticed after I said YES to install it made ref to installing on /dev/sda & /dev/sdb. That is pretty cool in my book, and no need to do any post install grub work. Finished Install & then rebooted without issue. Log on, open terminal & check raid status sudo mdadm --detail /dev/md[01] Here is my output /dev/md0: Version : 0.90 Creation Time : Mon Apr 2 15:06:25 2012 Raid Level : raid1 Array Size : 3071936 (2.93 GiB 3.15 GB) Used Dev Size : 3071936 (2.93 GiB 3.15 GB) Raid Devices : 2 Total Devices : 2 Preferred Minor : 0 Persistence : Superblock is persistent Update Time : Mon Apr 2 16:11:39 2012 State : clean Active Devices : 2 Working Devices : 2 Failed Devices : 0 Spare Devices : 0 UUID : 96e1dd7d:49e2cd24:f9bec2d2:7e3a2625 (local to host dt10) Events : 0.18 Number Major Minor RaidDevice State 0 8 1 0 active sync /dev/sda1 1 8 17 1 active sync /dev/sdb1 /dev/md1: Version : 0.90 Creation Time : Mon Apr 2 15:08:15 2012 Raid Level : raid1 Array Size : 471859136 (450.00 GiB 483.18 GB) Used Dev Size : 471859136 (450.00 GiB 483.18 GB) Raid Devices : 2 Total Devices : 2 Preferred Minor : 1 Persistence : Superblock is persistent Update Time : Mon Apr 2 16:02:48 2012 State : active, resyncing Active Devices : 2 Working Devices : 2 Failed Devices : 0 Spare Devices : 0 Rebuild Status : 10% complete UUID : abe603cd:984cea28:f9bec2d2:7e3a2625 (local to host dt10) Events : 0.7 Number Major Minor RaidDevice State 0 8 2 0 active sync /dev/sda2 1 8 18 1 active sync /dev/sdb2 I wanted to test if it would boot one one drive, so I fired it up with one dive unplugged. It booted, so I shutdown reinstalled the unplugged disk. This is why it shows Rebuild Status : 10% complete on /dev/md1, otherwise it would have showed State: Clean had I done this command before I unplugged the disk (sorry - forgot). So here ya go. Confirmed working Raid1 how to for Ubuntu. You can now proceed on knowing you have RAID1 setup just the way you want! Don't tell the boss, but now I have a Ubuntu box to play with :) Good Luck! Mr. B-o-B -- "I want to learn the ways of the Source, and be a Jedi like my Father" From galanolwe at yahoo.com Wed Apr 4 11:19:50 2012 From: galanolwe at yahoo.com (Olwe Bottorff) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 09:19:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Home Web Server Message-ID: <1333556390.75914.YahooMailNeo@web161604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I followed the directions here (http://tuxtweaks.com/2009/07/how-to-configure-apache-linux/) to set up my LAMP to go directly to my /home/myaccount/webdev web sites. For example, from my browser I type in this address: http://site1 and it goes to /home/myaccount/webdev/site1 and grabs the index.html file. This saves me the work of putting everything in /var/www/ for Apache to serve it. Good. All is working. So I try to access site1 on another computer on my home network (home Wifi) and I'm able to get to the Apache "It Works!" file in /var/www/ with this address: http://192.168.0.4 which is the address of the host machine, but when I try http://192.168.0.4/site1 it cannot find it (Not found). Any ideas how I can help my other home machines see my home directory web sites? Olwe GM,MN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From droidjd at gmail.com Wed Apr 4 11:25:43 2012 From: droidjd at gmail.com (Andrew Dahl) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 11:25:43 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Home Web Server In-Reply-To: <1333556390.75914.YahooMailNeo@web161604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1333556390.75914.YahooMailNeo@web161604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Setting /home/myaccount/webdev/site1 as the DocumentRoot would be the path of lease resistance. Else, aliasing /site1/ to /home/myaccount/webdev/site1 would be another alternative. -Andrew On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > I followed the directions here ( > http://tuxtweaks.com/2009/07/how-to-configure-apache-linux/) to set up my > LAMP to go directly to my /home/myaccount/webdev web sites. For example, > from my browser I type in this address: http://site1 and it goes to > /home/myaccount/webdev/site1 and grabs the index.html file. This saves me > the work of putting everything in /var/www/ for Apache to serve it. Good. > All is working. > > So I try to access site1 on another computer on my home network (home > Wifi) and I'm able to get to the Apache "It Works!" file in /var/www/ with > this address: http://192.168.0.4 which is the address of the host > machine, but when I try http://192.168.0.4/site1 it cannot find it (Not > found). Any ideas how I can help my other home machines see my home > directory web sites? > > Olwe > GM,MN > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at jfoo.org Wed Apr 4 11:23:18 2012 From: tclug at jfoo.org (John Gateley) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 11:23:18 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Home Web Server In-Reply-To: <1333556390.75914.YahooMailNeo@web161604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1333556390.75914.YahooMailNeo@web161604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <41091.167.206.189.6.1333556598.squirrel@mail.jfoo.org> > I followed the directions here > (http://tuxtweaks.com/2009/07/how-to-configure-apache-linux/) to set up my > LAMP to go directly to my /home/myaccount/webdev web sites. For example, > from my browser I type in this address: http://site1 and it goes to > /home/myaccount/webdev/site1 and grabs the index.html file. This saves me > the work of putting everything in /var/www/ for Apache to serve it. Good. > All is working. > > So I try to access site1 on another computer on my home network (home > Wifi) and I'm able to get to the Apache "It Works!" file in /var/www/ with > this address: http://192.168.0.4 which is the address of the host machine, > but when I try http://192.168.0.4/site1 it cannot find it (Not found). Any > ideas how I can help my other home machines see my home directory web > sites? What happens if you try the following URLs on your browser on your server? http://127.0.0.1/site1 http://127.0.0.1/ http://192.168.0.4/site1 http://192.168.0.4/ I suspect you are not listening on the right IP addresses, but need more info. John From tpenney at gmail.com Wed Apr 4 11:49:14 2012 From: tpenney at gmail.com (Tom Penney) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 11:49:14 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Home Web Server In-Reply-To: References: <1333556390.75914.YahooMailNeo@web161604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Andrew has mentioned the aliasing option. if you want more than one of these this is the way to go. add this to you apache conf file: Alias /site1 "/home/myaccount/webdev/site1" Alias /site2 "/home/myaccount/webdev/site2" Alias /site3 "/home/myaccount/webdev/site3" or, alternatively, a one liner with different directory structure Alias /site "/home/myaccount/webdev/site" then put your sites in /home/myaccount/webdev/site/1 /home/myaccount/webdev/site/2 /home/myaccount/webdev/site/3 and access them this way: http://192.168.0.4/site/1 http://192.168.0.4/site/2 http://192.168.0.4/site/3 On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 11:25 AM, Andrew Dahl wrote: > Setting? /home/myaccount/webdev/site1? as the DocumentRoot would be the path > of lease resistance. > > Else, aliasing /site1/ to? /home/myaccount/webdev/site1?would be another > alternative. > > -Andrew > > On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: >> >> I followed the directions here >> (http://tuxtweaks.com/2009/07/how-to-configure-apache-linux/) to set up my >> LAMP to go directly to my /home/myaccount/webdev web sites. For example, >> from my browser I type in this address: http://site1 and it goes to >> /home/myaccount/webdev/site1 and grabs the index.html file. This saves me >> the work of putting everything in /var/www/ for Apache to serve it. Good. >> All is working. >> >> So I try to access site1 on another computer on my home network (home >> Wifi) and I'm able to get to the Apache "It Works!" file in /var/www/ with >> this address: http://192.168.0.4 which is the address of the host machine, >> but when I try http://192.168.0.4/site1 it cannot find it (Not found). Any >> ideas how I can help my other home machines see my home directory web sites? >> >> Olwe >> GM,MN >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Tom Penney 612.208.2568 From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com Wed Apr 4 12:22:53 2012 From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 12:22:53 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] NEW GROUP: Hunt Bugs Club Message-ID: <20120404122253.3055a90efa8d1fbe453d33a4@jasonhsu.com> Come join the new Hunt Bugs Club. The web site is http://huntbugs.com/. The forum is on Google Groups at http://groups.google.com/group/hunt-bugs-club. This group will meet on the 3rd Wednesday of the month at Clockwork (http://www.clockwork.net). The next meeting is on Wednesday May 16th. The lightning talks will include: Bookmarklets: Andrew Leaf How to Write a Good Bug: Chris Countryman Agile Testing; Adam Burback Interdepartment Communication: Dez Run Test Run: Breon From patrickm at citilink.com Wed Apr 4 12:14:52 2012 From: patrickm at citilink.com (Patrick McCabe) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2012 12:14:52 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Home Web Server In-Reply-To: <1333556390.75914.YahooMailNeo@web161604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1333556390.75914.YahooMailNeo@web161604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4F7C818A.8040001@zok.mm.home> I would try editing the /etc/hosts file on the remote computer and adding the line 192.168.0.4 site1 Then browse to it with http://site1/ Patrick On 04/04/2012 11:20 AM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > I followed the directions here > (http://tuxtweaks.com/2009/07/how-to-configure-apache-linux/) to set > up my LAMP to go directly to my /home/myaccount/webdev web sites. For > example, from my browser I type in this address: http://site1 and it > goes to /home/myaccount/webdev/site1 and grabs the index.html file. > This saves me the work of putting everything in /var/www/ for Apache > to serve it. Good. All is working. > > So I try to access site1 on another computer on my home network (home > Wifi) and I'm able to get to the Apache "It Works!" file in /var/www/ > with this address: http://192.168.0.4 which is the address of the host > machine, but when I try http://192.168.0.4/site1 it cannot find it > (Not found). Any ideas how I can help my other home machines see my > home directory web sites? > > Olwe > GM,MN > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erikerik at gmail.com Wed Apr 4 12:53:19 2012 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 12:53:19 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Home Web Server In-Reply-To: <4F7C818A.8040001@zok.mm.home> References: <1333556390.75914.YahooMailNeo@web161604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F7C818A.8040001@zok.mm.home> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 12:14 PM, Patrick McCabe wrote: > I would try editing the /etc/hosts file on the remote computer and adding > the line > > 192.168.0.4??? site1 > > Then browse to it with http://site1/ ^^^ This. You need the "site1" HOST header sent by your browser so that apache serves its requests from the correct vhost. The above is the canonical way to do this if you don't want to get DNS involved. -Erik From marc at e-skinner.net Wed Apr 4 17:02:38 2012 From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2012 17:02:38 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] enterprise linux UG? Message-ID: <4F7CC4FE.8060208@e-skinner.net> what is the interest in an Enterprise Linux UG? i work for red hat and have a number of customers asking for such a group. i believe we will be starting one in the not so distant future. just thought i would ask this group if that would hold any interest. thanks! From jmore at starmind.org Wed Apr 4 17:08:10 2012 From: jmore at starmind.org (Josh More) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 17:08:10 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] enterprise linux UG? In-Reply-To: <4F7CC4FE.8060208@e-skinner.net> References: <4F7CC4FE.8060208@e-skinner.net> Message-ID: What do those users need that the community resources do not provide? Is it an issue of focus, culture, etc? I ran the LUG in Iowa for many years and a mix of users seemed to work really well. Everyone was able to learn from everyone else. -Josh On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 5:02 PM, Marc Skinner wrote: > what is the interest in an Enterprise Linux UG? > > i work for red hat and have a number of customers asking for such a group. > i believe we will be starting one in the not so distant future. just > thought i would ask this group if that would hold any interest. > > thanks! > ______________________________**_________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tonyyarusso at gmail.com Wed Apr 4 22:37:27 2012 From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 22:37:27 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] enterprise linux UG? In-Reply-To: References: <4F7CC4FE.8060208@e-skinner.net> Message-ID: I too would be unclear on the purpose of such a thing. Are you just looking for more discussions about large installation types of questions? I would imagine that the existing LUGs and LoCos would all be happy to hear suggestions for presentation topics and the like. - Tony From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Thu Apr 5 19:46:04 2012 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 19:46:04 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] enterprise linux UG? In-Reply-To: References: <4F7CC4FE.8060208@e-skinner.net> Message-ID: i concur that existing groups would welcome enterprise topics. are you aware of TCSA? server topics dominate there. but also, as a rhel/centos admin i'd be happy to see an entity with such focus. nothing wrong with more resources. On Apr 4, 2012 5:33 PM, "Josh More" wrote: > What do those users need that the community resources do not provide? Is it an issue of focus, culture, etc? > > I ran the LUG in Iowa for many years and a mix of users seemed to work really well. Everyone was able to learn from everyone else. > > -Josh > > On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 5:02 PM, Marc Skinner wrote: >> what is the interest in an Enterprise Linux UG? >> >> i work for red hat and have a number of customers asking for such a group. i believe we will be starting one in the not so distant future. just thought i would ask this group if that would hold any interest. >> >> thanks! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Apr 5 21:31:26 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 21:31:26 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] enterprise linux UG? In-Reply-To: References: <4F7CC4FE.8060208@e-skinner.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Apr 2012, gregrwm wrote: > i concur that existing groups would welcome enterprise topics. are you > aware of TCSA? server topics dominate there. but also, as a > rhel/centos admin i'd be happy to see an entity with such focus. > nothing wrong with more resources. It seems unlikely to me that there would be Enterprise Linux UG topics that I wouldn't be interested in at least seeing. Maybe we should just start adding [ELUG] on the subject line for messages that would have been sent to an ELUG list, if such a list had existed. Of course "[ELUG]" would be in the subject in addition to the "[tclug-list]" added by the list software. That way we can all see if we like the topics, and people who want ELUG but not our usual stuff can filter on the subject line. Mike From canito at dalan.us Mon Apr 9 13:21:48 2012 From: canito at dalan.us (canito at dalan.us) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2012 13:21:48 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands Message-ID: <20120409132148.Horde.BfqiD6iUW7BPgyi8RHniVtA@mail.dalan.us> A colleague of mine was "researching" on the web, when he came across a command line cheat sheet. I thought I would share one of the commands we thought to be most cool & interesting. If you ever find yourself in vi's read only mode. :w !sudo tee % Please share your cool and useful commands. D From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Apr 9 13:49:18 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 13:49:18 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands In-Reply-To: <20120409132148.Horde.BfqiD6iUW7BPgyi8RHniVtA@mail.dalan.us> References: <20120409132148.Horde.BfqiD6iUW7BPgyi8RHniVtA@mail.dalan.us> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2012, canito at dalan.us wrote: > A colleague of mine was "researching" on the web, when he came across a > command line cheat sheet. I thought I would share one of the commands we > thought to be most cool & interesting. Where did you find it? Mike From canito at dalan.us Mon Apr 9 13:58:14 2012 From: canito at dalan.us (canito at dalan.us) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2012 13:58:14 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands In-Reply-To: References: <20120409132148.Horde.BfqiD6iUW7BPgyi8RHniVtA@mail.dalan.us> Message-ID: <20120409135814.Horde.qo1FPaiUW7BPgzFGJeRDpWA@mail.dalan.us> Scroll to the bottom of page, under cheat sheets: http://www.catonmat.net/projects/ D Quoting Mike Miller : > On Mon, 9 Apr 2012, canito at dalan.us wrote: > >> A colleague of mine was "researching" on the web, when he came >> across a command line cheat sheet. I thought I would share one of >> the commands we thought to be most cool & interesting. > > Where did you find it? > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From j at packetgod.com Mon Apr 9 15:27:21 2012 From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 15:27:21 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands In-Reply-To: <20120409135814.Horde.qo1FPaiUW7BPgzFGJeRDpWA@mail.dalan.us> References: <20120409132148.Horde.BfqiD6iUW7BPgyi8RHniVtA@mail.dalan.us> <20120409135814.Horde.qo1FPaiUW7BPgzFGJeRDpWA@mail.dalan.us> Message-ID: Actually I quite like the awk and sed cheat sheets, still two of my favorite tools for dealing with log analysis and pulling out fun stuff from text. --j On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 1:58 PM, wrote: > Scroll to the bottom of page, under cheat sheets: > > http://www.catonmat.net/projects/ > > D > > Quoting Mike Miller : > >> On Mon, 9 Apr 2012, canito at dalan.us wrote: >> >>> A colleague of mine was "researching" on the web, when he came across a >>> command line cheat sheet. I thought I would share one of the commands we >>> thought to be most cool & interesting. >> >> >> Where did you find it? >> >> Mike >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gsker at skerbitz.org Mon Apr 9 18:34:11 2012 From: gsker at skerbitz.org (Gerry) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 18:34:11 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands In-Reply-To: References: <20120409132148.Horde.BfqiD6iUW7BPgyi8RHniVtA@mail.dalan.us> <20120409135814.Horde.qo1FPaiUW7BPgzFGJeRDpWA@mail.dalan.us> Message-ID: TL;DR mawk is fast. gawk is not. Then you might be interested in this: http://brenocon.com/blog/2009/09/dont-mawk-awk-the-fastest-and-most-elegant-big-data-munging-language/ (apologies if if you've already seent it) On Mon, 9 Apr 2012, J Cruit wrote: > Actually I quite like the awk and sed cheat sheets, still two of my > favorite tools for dealing with log analysis and pulling out fun stuff > from text. > > --j > > On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 1:58 PM, wrote: >> Scroll to the bottom of page, under cheat sheets: >> >> http://www.catonmat.net/projects/ >> >> D >> >> Quoting Mike Miller : >> >>> On Mon, 9 Apr 2012, canito at dalan.us wrote: >>> >>>> A colleague of mine was "researching" on the web, when he came across a >>>> command line cheat sheet. I thought I would share one of the commands we >>>> thought to be most cool & interesting. >>> >>> >>> Where did you find it? >>> >>> Mike -- Gerry Skerbitz gsker at skerbitz.org From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Apr 10 07:58:24 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 07:58:24 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands In-Reply-To: <20120409135814.Horde.qo1FPaiUW7BPgzFGJeRDpWA@mail.dalan.us> References: <20120409132148.Horde.BfqiD6iUW7BPgyi8RHniVtA@mail.dalan.us> <20120409135814.Horde.qo1FPaiUW7BPgzFGJeRDpWA@mail.dalan.us> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2012, canito at dalan.us wrote: > Scroll to the bottom of page, under cheat sheets: > > http://www.catonmat.net/projects/ Thanks! This reminds me that I need to learn "screen." I'm sure I'll be kicking myself for not learning it years ago. Mike From jake.vath at gmail.com Tue Apr 10 08:03:48 2012 From: jake.vath at gmail.com (Jake Vath) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 08:03:48 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands In-Reply-To: References: <20120409132148.Horde.BfqiD6iUW7BPgyi8RHniVtA@mail.dalan.us> <20120409135814.Horde.qo1FPaiUW7BPgzFGJeRDpWA@mail.dalan.us> Message-ID: Personally, I'd prefer tmux . *Tmux* has some features that I really enjoy. However, learning both *screen* and *tmux* is definitely worth it... I have worked on systems that have *screen*, but not *tmux*. Knowing either will make life in the terminal *a lot* easier. -> Jake On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 7:58 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Mon, 9 Apr 2012, canito at dalan.us wrote: > > Scroll to the bottom of page, under cheat sheets: >> >> http://www.catonmat.net/**projects/ >> > > > Thanks! This reminds me that I need to learn "screen." I'm sure I'll be > kicking myself for not learning it years ago. > > > Mike > ______________________________**_________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jus at krytosvirus.com Tue Apr 10 08:15:25 2012 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 13:15:25 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands In-Reply-To: References: <20120409132148.Horde.BfqiD6iUW7BPgyi8RHniVtA@mail.dalan.us> <20120409135814.Horde.qo1FPaiUW7BPgzFGJeRDpWA@mail.dalan.us> Message-ID: <1513076685-1334063725-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1125298379-@b13.c4.bise6.blackberry> screen and/or tmux are wonderful life/time/sanity savers!!!! You should be kicking yourself for not using one of them. Though I don't know if tmux is available on linux specifically it is in openbsd. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Miller Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 07:58:24 To: TCLUG Mailing List Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands On Mon, 9 Apr 2012, canito at dalan.us wrote: > Scroll to the bottom of page, under cheat sheets: > > http://www.catonmat.net/projects/ Thanks! This reminds me that I need to learn "screen." I'm sure I'll be kicking myself for not learning it years ago. Mike _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Apr 10 08:22:16 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 08:22:16 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands In-Reply-To: References: <20120409132148.Horde.BfqiD6iUW7BPgyi8RHniVtA@mail.dalan.us> <20120409135814.Horde.qo1FPaiUW7BPgzFGJeRDpWA@mail.dalan.us> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2012, Gerry wrote: > TL;DR mawk is fast. gawk is not. > > Then you might be interested in this: > http://brenocon.com/blog/2009/09/dont-mawk-awk-the-fastest-and-most-elegant-big-data-munging-language/ > > (apologies if if you've already seent it) I hadn't seen it and I'm looking forward to studying it. I do a lot of work that's exactly like what that author does -- parsing multi-gigabyte files and having to use awk, or somesuch. The speed does become a huge issue. Related to this speed issue -- this reminds me of a cool trick I learned during the past year. I actually learned it on this list. Suppose you have a giant file with 10 million lines in which the word STRING probably appears on about 10 lines and you want to find those lines. You could do this: grep -w STRING file But that is slow. This is fast, but it doesn't match only words: grep -F STRING file That might include stuff like "fooSTRINGbaz", which we don't want, but suppose the grep -F returned only 1000 lines or 10000 lines -- that's a big step in the right direction because all the lines I want are included. So, in most cases, this is the fast way to do the job: grep -F STRING file | grep -w STRING First do the fast grep to reduce the number of lines piped into the slower but more precise word grep. The result will always be the same as if grep -w alone had been used. I often have a file with a list of words that I want to grep out of another file. Suppose the list of words is in a file called words.txt, then this will work, but slowly... grep -wf words.txt file ...and this will give the fast result: grep -Ff words.txt file | grep -wf words.txt Of course, it depends on your situation. Sometimes the fast grep alone will do what you need. Sometimes it won't help (e.g., if every line matches!). But for me it has made a huge difference. Mike From jake.vath at gmail.com Tue Apr 10 08:23:10 2012 From: jake.vath at gmail.com (Jake Vath) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 08:23:10 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands In-Reply-To: <1513076685-1334063725-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1125298379-@b13.c4.bise6.blackberry> References: <20120409132148.Horde.BfqiD6iUW7BPgyi8RHniVtA@mail.dalan.us> <20120409135814.Horde.qo1FPaiUW7BPgzFGJeRDpWA@mail.dalan.us> <1513076685-1334063725-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1125298379-@b13.c4.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: I honestly don't know what I did before *tmux* and *screen*. I probably didn't get much done :/ You can grab the source here and build it yourself, but most repositories have it. -> Jake On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 8:15 AM, Justin Krejci wrote: > screen and/or tmux are wonderful life/time/sanity savers!!!! You should be > kicking yourself for not using one of them. Though I don't know if tmux is > available on linux specifically it is in openbsd. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Miller > Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 07:58:24 > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands > > On Mon, 9 Apr 2012, canito at dalan.us wrote: > > > Scroll to the bottom of page, under cheat sheets: > > > > http://www.catonmat.net/projects/ > > > Thanks! This reminds me that I need to learn "screen." I'm sure I'll be > kicking myself for not learning it years ago. > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erikerik at gmail.com Tue Apr 10 09:06:44 2012 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 09:06:44 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands In-Reply-To: References: <20120409132148.Horde.BfqiD6iUW7BPgyi8RHniVtA@mail.dalan.us> <20120409135814.Horde.qo1FPaiUW7BPgzFGJeRDpWA@mail.dalan.us> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 8:03 AM, Jake Vath wrote: > Personally, I'd prefer tmux. > Tmux has some features that I really enjoy. If you have the time, I'd love to hear what features tmux has that screen doesn't. I've been a heavy screen user for many years, and have heard many people talking about tmux, but have never committed to switching over. -Erik From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Tue Apr 10 09:02:09 2012 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 09:02:09 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands Message-ID: <20120410140209.B12072F00A3@okra.fo4.net> > Please share your cool and useful commands. i guess i have many favorites defined via my .bashrc, here's one: tl foo #show output of "type", "ls", and show what package defines "foo" which derives from various definitions via .bashrc: alias Lc.=' ls -aFq --color' Lu.(){ Lc. -l "${timestyle=$(ls --time-style -d / 1>/dev/null 2>/dev/null&&echo --time-style="+%F %a %T"||echo --full-time)}" "$@";} alias lu.=' Lu. -v' alias Lu=' Lu. -d' alias lT.=' lu. -t' alias lt.=' lT. -r' alias Lt.=' lt. -c' alias lt=' lt. -d' alias Lt=' Lt. -d' tl()(tp=$(type -p "$@");if [ "$tp" ];then lt $tp&& #show file mod time Lt $tp|| tp=$@ #show inode mod time type -a "$@" #better than "which" rqf $tp #show what package else type "$@" fi) if type rpm>/dev/null 2>&1;then alias rqf=' rpm -qf' elif type dpkg>/dev/null 2>&1;then rqf()(p=$(dpkg -S "$@");[ "$p" ]&&dpkg-query -W ${p%%:*}) fi From jake.vath at gmail.com Tue Apr 10 09:21:57 2012 From: jake.vath at gmail.com (Jake Vath) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 09:21:57 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands In-Reply-To: References: <20120409132148.Horde.BfqiD6iUW7BPgyi8RHniVtA@mail.dalan.us> <20120409135814.Horde.qo1FPaiUW7BPgzFGJeRDpWA@mail.dalan.us> Message-ID: I don't mean to imply that *tmux *is, in any way, "better" than *screen*. I use both quite often. A lot of the things that I like about *tmux* can be done in *screen*, but I just never really got around to do them. - I like the key-chords for *tmux*. - I like how *tmux* does Session Locking/Session handling. - The pseudo-menu for selecting your virtual-terminals. - I like the menu at the bottom of your terminal that tells you what each virtual-terminal has running. - I *love* the window/terminal splitting; I use vertical and horizontal panes everyday. Those are my personal favorites. I think *tmux* may be more actively developed, but that is probably just because it new(er) that *screen*? I don't know if that a pro or not. I'll use whatever is available, but at home I'm using *tmux.* -> Jake On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 9:06 AM, Erik Anderson wrote: > On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 8:03 AM, Jake Vath wrote: > > Personally, I'd prefer tmux. > > Tmux has some features that I really enjoy. > > If you have the time, I'd love to hear what features tmux has that > screen doesn't. I've been a heavy screen user for many years, and have > heard many people talking about tmux, but have never committed to > switching over. > > -Erik > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jake.vath at gmail.com Tue Apr 10 09:29:01 2012 From: jake.vath at gmail.com (Jake Vath) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 09:29:01 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands In-Reply-To: References: <20120409132148.Horde.BfqiD6iUW7BPgyi8RHniVtA@mail.dalan.us> <20120409135814.Horde.qo1FPaiUW7BPgzFGJeRDpWA@mail.dalan.us> Message-ID: Sorry, I mean to reply directly.... I don't mean to imply that *tmux *is, in any way, "better" than *screen*. I use both quite often. A lot of the things that I like about *tmux* can be done in *screen*, but I just never really got around to do them. - I like the key-chords for *tmux*. - I like how *tmux* does Session Locking/Session handling. - The pseudo-menu for selecting your virtual-terminals. - I like the menu at the bottom of your terminal that tells you what each virtual-terminal has running. - I *love* the window/terminal splitting; I use vertical and horizontal panes everyday. Those are my personal favorites. I think *tmux* may be more actively developed, but that is probably just because it new(er) that *screen*? I don't know if that a pro or not. I'll use whatever is available, but at home I'm using *tmux.* -> Jake On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 9:06 AM, Erik Anderson wrote: > On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 8:03 AM, Jake Vath wrote: > > Personally, I'd prefer tmux. > > Tmux has some features that I really enjoy. > > If you have the time, I'd love to hear what features tmux has that > screen doesn't. I've been a heavy screen user for many years, and have > heard many people talking about tmux, but have never committed to > switching over. > > -Erik > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nesius at gmail.com Tue Apr 10 09:51:09 2012 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 09:51:09 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands In-Reply-To: References: <20120409132148.Horde.BfqiD6iUW7BPgyi8RHniVtA@mail.dalan.us> <20120409135814.Horde.qo1FPaiUW7BPgzFGJeRDpWA@mail.dalan.us> Message-ID: I've always viewed screen as something handy when your console/terminal is an old-school wyse terminal. But you guys seem to be using screen/tmux in the course of every-day work. In a modern desktop environment with a window manager, is screen/tmux really better than, say, multiple xterms/konsoles/etc...? I guess I can see the advantage of having one big terminal window open and saving the overhead of window-widgets... but I often am working in several windows at once and referencing information/data in each. In short, I'm not seeing the value but I think it's because my understanding of the capabilities of the tool and your workflows is incomplete. Would one or some of you be willing to describe your workflow to better illustrate why screen/tmux are so essential to you? Thanks, -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erikerik at gmail.com Tue Apr 10 09:57:02 2012 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 09:57:02 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands In-Reply-To: References: <20120409132148.Horde.BfqiD6iUW7BPgyi8RHniVtA@mail.dalan.us> <20120409135814.Horde.qo1FPaiUW7BPgzFGJeRDpWA@mail.dalan.us> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 9:51 AM, Robert Nesius wrote: > I've always viewed screen as something handy when your console/terminal is > an old-school wyse terminal. ?But you guys seem to be using screen/tmux in > the course of every-day work. ?In a modern desktop environment with a window > manager, is screen/tmux really better than, say, multiple > xterms/konsoles/etc...? While screen/tmux have *tons* of functionality, the killer function are made apparent when working on remote systems: 1. The ability to deal gracefully with network issues. If you're running in a screen session and your network connections drops, your terminal will remain happily running and is available to re-attach to once network issues are sorted out. 2. Related to #1, they offer the ability to start a long-running process, then detach from that console, letting the process keep running. Then you can re-attach at some point in the future to check progress, resume work, etc. This is also quite nice for interactive programs like irssi - you can just always keep yourself signed into IRC within a screen window, but then detach/attach as necessary. I also find the key shortcuts to change between screen windows to be easier to execute than the typical shortcuts to switch between separate xterms (though this could likely be overcome by making some custom shortcuts). - Erik From jake.vath at gmail.com Tue Apr 10 10:00:58 2012 From: jake.vath at gmail.com (Jake Vath) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 10:00:58 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands In-Reply-To: References: <20120409132148.Horde.BfqiD6iUW7BPgyi8RHniVtA@mail.dalan.us> <20120409135814.Horde.qo1FPaiUW7BPgzFGJeRDpWA@mail.dalan.us> Message-ID: Hey Rob, I'd be glad to tell you my work routine. I do use *tmux* at home where I have X running on my desktop. I use it at home out of force of habit, mostly. I, personally, don't have any qualms with having a tabs open in a xterm or anything like that. However, when I am at my office I am working on headless servers via *ssh*. I use *tmux *there because I can't really have multiple *Putty* instances open to the same server; Well, I *can*, but I don't like to. So, I just *ssh* in the server, fire-up *tmux, *and start working as I would normally in a shell. Another thing I* *think is great about *tmux,* If I lose my *ssh *connection to the server, I don't lose my session(s)/data/work. I just *ssh *back in and re-attach my *tmux* session and I'm back to work. -> Jake On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 9:51 AM, Robert Nesius wrote: > > I've always viewed screen as something handy when your console/terminal is > an old-school wyse terminal. But you guys seem to be using screen/tmux in > the course of every-day work. In a modern desktop environment with a > window manager, is screen/tmux really better than, say, multiple > xterms/konsoles/etc...? I guess I can see the advantage of having one big > terminal window open and saving the overhead of window-widgets... but I > often am working in several windows at once and referencing > information/data in each. > > In short, I'm not seeing the value but I think it's because my > understanding of the capabilities of the tool and your workflows is > incomplete. Would one or some of you be willing to describe your workflow > to better illustrate why screen/tmux are so essential to you? > > Thanks, > -Rob > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jake.vath at gmail.com Tue Apr 10 10:05:19 2012 From: jake.vath at gmail.com (Jake Vath) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 10:05:19 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands In-Reply-To: References: <20120409132148.Horde.BfqiD6iUW7BPgyi8RHniVtA@mail.dalan.us> <20120409135814.Horde.qo1FPaiUW7BPgzFGJeRDpWA@mail.dalan.us> Message-ID: > > I also find the key shortcuts to change between screen windows to be > easier to execute than the typical shortcuts to switch between > separate xterms (though this could likely be overcome by making some > custom shortcuts). > This is very true. The key-binding/shortcuts for *tmux* also stream line my working habits. I don't need to move my hands away from the keyboard and I don't need to do any odd shortcuts that might be default for the X Session. The default shortcuts can be easily changed, so that is really just me being lazing and sticking with what works for me. -> Jake On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 9:57 AM, Erik Anderson wrote: > On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 9:51 AM, Robert Nesius wrote: > > I've always viewed screen as something handy when your console/terminal > is > > an old-school wyse terminal. But you guys seem to be using screen/tmux > in > > the course of every-day work. In a modern desktop environment with a > window > > manager, is screen/tmux really better than, say, multiple > > xterms/konsoles/etc...? > > While screen/tmux have *tons* of functionality, the killer function > are made apparent when working on remote systems: > > 1. The ability to deal gracefully with network issues. If you're > running in a screen session and your network connections drops, your > terminal will remain happily running and is available to re-attach to > once network issues are sorted out. > > 2. Related to #1, they offer the ability to start a long-running > process, then detach from that console, letting the process keep > running. Then you can re-attach at some point in the future to check > progress, resume work, etc. This is also quite nice for interactive > programs like irssi - you can just always keep yourself signed into > IRC within a screen window, but then detach/attach as necessary. > > I also find the key shortcuts to change between screen windows to be > easier to execute than the typical shortcuts to switch between > separate xterms (though this could likely be overcome by making some > custom shortcuts). > > - Erik > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jolexa at jolexa.net Tue Apr 10 10:01:15 2012 From: jolexa at jolexa.net (Jeremy Olexa) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 10:01:15 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands In-Reply-To: References: <20120409132148.Horde.BfqiD6iUW7BPgyi8RHniVtA@mail.dalan.us> <20120409135814.Horde.qo1FPaiUW7BPgzFGJeRDpWA@mail.dalan.us> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 9:29 AM, Jake Vath wrote: > Sorry, I mean to reply directly.... Mailing lists stop working when you reply directly (unless personal info is requested) Thanks for sending the mail to the list, I actually read your message opposed to most that I skim/mark as read. :) -Jeremy From jake.vath at gmail.com Tue Apr 10 10:16:18 2012 From: jake.vath at gmail.com (Jake Vath) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 10:16:18 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands In-Reply-To: References: <20120409132148.Horde.BfqiD6iUW7BPgyi8RHniVtA@mail.dalan.us> <20120409135814.Horde.qo1FPaiUW7BPgzFGJeRDpWA@mail.dalan.us> Message-ID: That's true. I generally don't reply to many of the TCLUG threads (usually because I have nothing of value to add). However, I *do *glean a lot of information just from reading the replies. TCLUG has a great mix of followers/users. -> Jake On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 10:01 AM, Jeremy Olexa wrote: > On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 9:29 AM, Jake Vath wrote: > > Sorry, I mean to reply directly.... > > Mailing lists stop working when you reply directly (unless personal > info is requested) > > Thanks for sending the mail to the list, I actually read your message > opposed to most that I skim/mark as read. :) > > -Jeremy > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpschewe at mtu.net Tue Apr 10 16:15:19 2012 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 16:15:19 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands In-Reply-To: References: <20120409132148.Horde.BfqiD6iUW7BPgyi8RHniVtA@mail.dalan.us> <20120409135814.Horde.qo1FPaiUW7BPgzFGJeRDpWA@mail.dalan.us> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 10:00 AM, Jake Vath wrote: > Hey Rob, > > I'd be glad to tell you my work routine. > I do use *tmux* at home where I have X running on my desktop. > I use it at home out of force of habit, mostly. I, personally, don't have > any qualms with having a tabs open in a xterm or anything like that. > > However, when I am at my office I am working on headless servers via *ssh* > . > I use *tmux *there because I can't really have multiple *Putty* instances > open to the same server; Well, I *can*, but I don't like to. > So, I just *ssh* in the server, fire-up *tmux, *and start working as I > would normally in a shell. > Another thing I* *think is great about *tmux,* If I lose my *ssh *connection > to the server, I don't lose my session(s)/data/work. > I just *ssh *back in and re-attach my *tmux* session and I'm back to work. > > I've also found that the copy/paste is really handy. I can go back in my scrollback buffer, copy some text and paste it into the current buffer or another buffer all without my fingers ever leaving the keyboard. -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nesius at gmail.com Tue Apr 10 20:37:13 2012 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 20:37:13 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands In-Reply-To: References: <20120409132148.Horde.BfqiD6iUW7BPgyi8RHniVtA@mail.dalan.us> <20120409135814.Horde.qo1FPaiUW7BPgzFGJeRDpWA@mail.dalan.us> Message-ID: Thanks everyone for the thoughtful responses. The "session insurance" for dropped links is definitely attractive. I'm worried I don't spend enough time on the prompt to fully integrate tmux or screen into my workflow but I think I'll give it the college try based on your feedback. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Tue Apr 10 20:40:58 2012 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 20:40:58 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands In-Reply-To: References: <20120409132148.Horde.BfqiD6iUW7BPgyi8RHniVtA@mail.dalan.us> <20120409135814.Horde.qo1FPaiUW7BPgzFGJeRDpWA@mail.dalan.us> Message-ID: Dude it's worth it. I'm partial to "screen" myself, although I've heard good things about tmux too. Either way, if you're running long jobs on a remote machine, it's a necessity. -Erik On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 8:37 PM, Robert Nesius wrote: > Thanks everyone for the thoughtful responses. ?The "session insurance" for > dropped links is definitely attractive. ?I'm worried I don't spend enough > time on the prompt to fully integrate tmux or screen into my workflow but I > think I'll give it the college try based on your feedback. > > -Rob > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Erik K. Mitchell erik.mitchell at gmail.com From bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com Tue Apr 10 20:50:19 2012 From: bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com (Andrew Berg) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 20:50:19 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands In-Reply-To: References: <20120409132148.Horde.BfqiD6iUW7BPgyi8RHniVtA@mail.dalan.us> <20120409135814.Horde.qo1FPaiUW7BPgzFGJeRDpWA@mail.dalan.us> Message-ID: <4F84E35B.3020401@gmail.com> On 4/10/2012 9:29 AM, Jake Vath wrote: > A lot of the things that I like about /tmux/ can be done in /screen/, > but I just never really got around to do them. > > * I like the key-chords for /tmux/. > * I like how /tmux/ does Session Locking/Session handling. > * The pseudo-menu for selecting your virtual-terminals. > * I like the menu at the bottom of your terminal that tells you what > each virtual-terminal has running. > * I /love/ the window/terminal splitting; I use vertical and > horizontal panes everyday. Another feature that no one has brought up is the fact that since tmux uses sockets, it's possible to share a session. I haven't used that feature myself, but I know someone who has used it as a bit of a teaching tool. Maybe this was possible with screen, but I thought it was worth bringing up. > Those are my personal favorites. > I think /tmux/ may be more actively developed, but that is probably just > because it new(er) that /screen/? AFAIK, screen's code hasn't changed in years. From max at bernsteinforpresident.com Tue Apr 10 20:58:59 2012 From: max at bernsteinforpresident.com (Max Shinn) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 20:58:59 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands In-Reply-To: References: <20120409132148.Horde.BfqiD6iUW7BPgyi8RHniVtA@mail.dalan.us> <20120409135814.Horde.qo1FPaiUW7BPgzFGJeRDpWA@mail.dalan.us> Message-ID: <20120410205859.3cbb04e4@Newton> On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 20:40:58 -0500 Erik Mitchell wrote: > Dude it's worth it. I'm partial to "screen" myself, although I've > heard good things about tmux too. Either way, if you're running long > jobs on a remote machine, it's a necessity. I'd like to point out as well that a very small initial investment into screen will have a very large payoff. Learning only Ctrl-A C, Ctrl-A [number], Ctrl-A D, and Ctrl-A Esc will go a LONG way. -Max From gsker at skerbitz.org Tue Apr 10 22:29:30 2012 From: gsker at skerbitz.org (Gerry) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 22:29:30 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands In-Reply-To: <4F84E35B.3020401@gmail.com> References: <20120409132148.Horde.BfqiD6iUW7BPgyi8RHniVtA@mail.dalan.us> <20120409135814.Horde.qo1FPaiUW7BPgzFGJeRDpWA@mail.dalan.us> <4F84E35B.3020401@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Apr 2012, Andrew Berg wrote: > On 4/10/2012 9:29 AM, Jake Vath wrote: >> A lot of the things that I like about /tmux/ can be done in /screen/, >> but I just never really got around to do them. >> >> * I like the key-chords for /tmux/. >> * I like how /tmux/ does Session Locking/Session handling. >> * The pseudo-menu for selecting your virtual-terminals. >> * I like the menu at the bottom of your terminal that tells you what >> each virtual-terminal has running. >> * I /love/ the window/terminal splitting; I use vertical and >> horizontal panes everyday. > Another feature that no one has brought up is the fact that since tmux > uses sockets, it's possible to share a session. I haven't used that > feature myself, but I know someone who has used it as a bit of a > teaching tool. Maybe this was possible with screen, but I thought it was > worth bringing up. Screen shares sessions too. It's cool. -x Attach to a not detached screen session. (Multi display mode). I've used it a lot. I may just switch to tmux though for this VERY critical reason. Try searching for information about "screen" and you'll get very little in the way of useful help. :-) (laptops screens, window screens, screen doors....) I'm hoping tmux serves me better in this regard. :-) BTW I haven't heard byobu mentioned yet wrt screen. https://launchpad.net/byobu (yes there are rpms too) -- Gerry Skerbitz gsker at skerbitz.org From tonyyarusso at gmail.com Tue Apr 10 23:04:31 2012 From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 23:04:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands In-Reply-To: References: <20120409132148.Horde.BfqiD6iUW7BPgyi8RHniVtA@mail.dalan.us> <20120409135814.Horde.qo1FPaiUW7BPgzFGJeRDpWA@mail.dalan.us> <4F84E35B.3020401@gmail.com> Message-ID: It's stupidly simple, but lately I've been getting a lot of use for the 'cut' command. - Tony From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Apr 11 01:35:03 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 01:35:03 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Cool and Useful Quick Commands In-Reply-To: References: <20120409132148.Horde.BfqiD6iUW7BPgyi8RHniVtA@mail.dalan.us> <20120409135814.Horde.qo1FPaiUW7BPgzFGJeRDpWA@mail.dalan.us> <4F84E35B.3020401@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Apr 2012, Tony Yarusso wrote: > It's stupidly simple, but lately I've been getting a lot of use for the > 'cut' command. I use it all the time. In fact, I try to use tab-delimiters as much as possible so that I can use cut and paste without any -d option. Since we're on the topic of tricks we've learned -- see a couple of very simple one-liner bash scripts below that I use often. The second script was invented for use with cut. Mike -------begin "header" script on next line---------------- #!/bin/bash # Takes the header (first) line of a tab-delimited file and # sends a list of the field names with field numbers to stdout. # # Usage: # # header filename # cut -f3- filename | header - head -1 "$1" | tr '\t' '\n' | cat -n ------end "header" script on previous line--------------- -------begin "header2" script on next line---------------- #!/bin/bash # Often used with my script called "header." This reads in the output # of header, often after processing by a grep command, and it produces # a comma-delimited string of field numbers that can be used with the # cut command. # # Normal usage: # # header filename | grep something | header2 # # or, say, # # cut -f $(header filename | grep -i date | header2) filename # # Note: It is just taking the list of numbers in the first field of # output from cat -n and replacing newlines with commas, then removing # the final comma. The result is a comma delimited list of numbers # that does not end with a newline. This is good for use with cut -f. gawk '{print $1}' "$1" | tr -d ' ' | tr '\n' ',' | perl -pe 's/,\Z//' ------end "header2" script on previous line--------------- From admin at lctn.org Wed Apr 11 10:28:06 2012 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 10:28:06 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] lirc irexec problem Message-ID: <4F85A306.6030405@lctn.org> I want to run irexec to execute commands via a remote control. Irexec starts fine if I simply run sudo /usr/sbin/lircd, but this way it does not read /etc/lirc/hardware.conf . If I launch lircd from /etc/init.d, I get a connection refused error when I attempt to launch irexec. Anyone familiar with this issue? Ultimately, I am working on getting VLC to work with lirc with devinput, so if there is someone doing this, I would love to visit. I can post info on pastbin if that would help. Raymond From admin at lctn.org Thu Apr 12 09:19:16 2012 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 09:19:16 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] lirc irexec problem In-Reply-To: <4F85A306.6030405@lctn.org> References: <4F85A306.6030405@lctn.org> Message-ID: <4F86E464.6050605@lctn.org> FYI for anyone dealing with this issue: lircs default socket is /var/run/lirc/lircd. I set lirc to use the devinput driver, with the socket located at /dev/lircd. Irexec expects to find the socket at the original location, so I deleted what was there and created a symlink pointing back to /dev/lircd. On 04/11/2012 10:28 AM, Raymond Norton wrote: > I want to run irexec to execute commands via a remote control. Irexec > starts fine if I simply run sudo /usr/sbin/lircd, but this way it does > not read /etc/lirc/hardware.conf . If I launch lircd from > /etc/init.d, I get a connection refused error when I attempt to > launch irexec. > > Anyone familiar with this issue? > > > Ultimately, I am working on getting VLC to work with lirc with > devinput, so if there is someone doing this, I would love to visit. > > > I can post info on pastbin if that would help. > > Raymond > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From erikerik at gmail.com Thu Apr 12 12:50:32 2012 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 12:50:32 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Place to purchase new and/or refurb HP networking gear locally? Message-ID: Do any of you know of a place locally that sells either new or used HP Procurve gear? I received a switch today that I had ordered from Newegg, but it arrived DOA. It's needed for a project starting Monday, so I'm hoping there is somewhere local that I could pick up a replacement switch. Thanks! -Erik P.S. OT Penance: sometimes when troubleshooting network issues, it's useful to be able to ping a host and log the results to a file with the ping's timestamp prepended to each line. $ ping google.com | awk '/^[0-9]+ bytes from / { "date" | getline pong; close("date"); print pong":",$0; }' > /path/to/file P.P.S. (more penance, just in case) - The following is assuming you're using a bash shell, though I'm sure similar functionality is available in zsh, etc. We have all (no doubt) come to use the linux command line history. In its default configuration, bash will only log the actual command issued. While useful, it is very easy to kick your ~/.bash_history up a notch and have it log timestamps for all commands as well. To do this, add the following to your ~/.bash_profile: HISTTIMEFORMAT="%F %T " Then run `source ~/.bash_profile` and you'll be all set. From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Thu Apr 12 13:13:57 2012 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 13:13:57 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Place to purchase new and/or refurb HP networking gear locally? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh stop showing off! On Apr 12, 2012 12:50 PM, "Erik Anderson" wrote: > Do any of you know of a place locally that sells either new or used HP > Procurve gear? > > I received a switch today that I had ordered from Newegg, but it > arrived DOA. It's needed for a project starting Monday, so I'm hoping > there is somewhere local that I could pick up a replacement switch. > > Thanks! > -Erik > > P.S. OT Penance: sometimes when troubleshooting network issues, it's > useful to be able to ping a host and log the results to a file with > the ping's timestamp prepended to each line. > $ ping google.com | awk '/^[0-9]+ bytes from / { "date" | getline > pong; close("date"); print pong":",$0; }' > /path/to/file > > P.P.S. (more penance, just in case) - The following is assuming you're > using a bash shell, though I'm sure similar functionality is available > in zsh, etc. We have all (no doubt) come to use the linux command line > history. In its default configuration, bash will only log the actual > command issued. While useful, it is very easy to kick your > ~/.bash_history up a notch and have it log timestamps for all commands > as well. To do this, add the following to your ~/.bash_profile: > HISTTIMEFORMAT="%F %T " > > Then run `source ~/.bash_profile` and you'll be all set. > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tonyyarusso at gmail.com Thu Apr 12 14:11:12 2012 From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 14:11:12 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Place to purchase new and/or refurb HP networking gear locally? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 12:50, Erik Anderson wrote: > Do any of you know of a place locally that sells either new or used HP > Procurve gear? > > I received a switch today that I had ordered from Newegg, but it > arrived DOA. It's needed for a project starting Monday, so I'm hoping > there is somewhere local that I could pick up a replacement switch. No, but my employer is currently unloading some old HP ProCurve gear, so I may have something that can tide you over. The caveat is that it's only 10/100 stuff, not gigabit, although a handful can do gigabit uplink. What exactly do you need? - Tony Yarusso From erikerik at gmail.com Thu Apr 12 14:23:03 2012 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 14:23:03 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Place to purchase new and/or refurb HP networking gear locally? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 2:11 PM, Tony Yarusso wrote: > No, but my employer is currently unloading some old HP ProCurve gear, > so I may have something that can tide you over. ?The caveat is that > it's only 10/100 stuff, not gigabit, although a handful can do gigabit > uplink. ?What exactly do you need? Thanks Tony - My needs are fairly modest - 16 ports, 802.1q tagging support. That's about it. I'm fairly certain that pretty much everything in the Procurve line supports 802.1q, so that shouldn't be an issue. 10/100 should be fine. If the price is right, I may be interested in two (depending on availability). -Erik From dniesen at gmail.com Tue Apr 17 16:08:07 2012 From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2012 16:08:07 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Wi-Fi site survey? Message-ID: Anybody have a recommendation for a service in the Twin Cities that provides professional Wi-Fi site surveys/analysis? I have a client who is looking at implementing wireless barcode wands and may like to have some locations surveyed. -- Donovan Niesen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kc0iog at gmail.com Tue Apr 17 16:20:21 2012 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2012 16:20:21 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Wi-Fi site survey? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 4:08 PM, Donovan wrote: > Anybody have a recommendation for a service in the Twin Cities that > provides professional Wi-Fi site surveys/analysis? > I've had experience with Diversified networks as well as CDW professional. Both used roughly the same process and did a fine job, however they're kind of expensive. Think multi-day project @ regular professional service rates. Marco may also provide this service, however I've not used them for this. Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tonyyarusso at gmail.com Tue Apr 17 16:30:34 2012 From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2012 16:30:34 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Wi-Fi site survey? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 16:08, Donovan wrote: > Anybody have a recommendation for a service in the Twin Cities that provides > professional Wi-Fi site surveys/analysis? My employer (TIES - ties.k12.mn.us) does this as part of our network installation projects, although I'm not really sure whether we'd do it as a standalone service or not. You could call Candi to discuss what you're looking for to find out whether we might be appropriate for your needs - 651-999-6231. - Tony Yarusso From luke at area27cabling.com Tue Apr 17 16:32:42 2012 From: luke at area27cabling.com (Luke Connolly) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2012 17:32:42 -0400 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Wi-Fi site survey? Message-ID: <20120417173242.1594@web001.nyc1.bluetie.com> The company I work for dose Wi-Fi. Area 27 Inc. / www,area27cabling.com / 612.719.2238 We've surveyed & installed at several warehouses and retailers throughout the metro. Luke -----Original Message----- From: "Donovan" [dniesen at gmail.com] Date: 04/17/2012 03:08 PM To: "TCLUG List" Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Wi-Fi site survey? Anybody have a recommendation for a service in the Twin Cities that provides professional Wi-Fi site surveys/analysis? ? I have a client who is looking at implementing wireless barcode wands and may like to have some locations surveyed. -- Donovan Niesen From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com Mon Apr 23 18:14:28 2012 From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 18:14:28 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound Install Fest/Release Party April 28th Message-ID: <4F95E254.60603@Goecke-Dolan.com> This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be Saturday April 28th at TIES, 1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108 from 9:00am to 5:00pm (See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more info.) This month at the Penguins Unbound Meeting will be Install Fest / Release Party April 28th 9:00am to 5:00pm So bring your computer and come on down and install the new Ubuntu 12.04 LTS ( Precise Pangolin ) or any Linux distribution you like! The doors will be open from 9:00am to 5:00pm Hope to see you there. ==>brian. I will try to stream some of the install fest. I am not sure I will stream the whole time, so if it isn't working you should try again later. Thanks. *** STREAMING *** If you can't make it you can use this url to stream the meeting. mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 You should be able to connect with either: mplayer mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 or vlc http://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com Tue Apr 24 19:26:44 2012 From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 19:26:44 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] The new Minty Swift Linux is now available! Message-ID: <20120424192644.17db6b6317d64c0dc7d5749c@jasonhsu.com> The new Minty Swift Linux has arrived! Swift Linux is now a lightweight derivative of Linux Mint Debian Edition! Swift Linux 0.2.0 is now available at http://www.swiftlinux.org. There are two plain vanilla editions, Diet Swift Linux and Regular Swift Linux. The new Silicon Valley Swift Linux joins Taylor Swift Linux, Minnesota Swift Linux, and Chicago Swift Linux in the lineup of special editions. Swift Linux is the best of all worlds! It combines the superior software, hardware, and codec support of Linux Mint with a lightweight and user-friendly interface inspired by Puppy Linux and antiX Linux. P.S. Swift Linux NEEDS more developers! The web site will point you to the bug tracking database, source code, instructions on getting started, build scripts, and checklists. -- Jason Hsu, Linux literate software development engineer Founder and lead developer of Swift Linux (http://www.swiftlinux.org) Founder and lead developer of Doppler Value Investing (http://www.dopplervalueinvesting.com) From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com Tue Apr 24 19:47:45 2012 From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 19:47:45 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] The new Linux Mint Debian Edition (201204) is available! Message-ID: <20120424194745.79abbde94f791615acf4c4d3@jasonhsu.com> http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1979 This is the first official release of Linux Mint Debian Edition for a post-GNOME2 world. MATE is the default desktop, and Cinnamon is provided as well. I'm looking forward to this Saturday's Installfest. I will bring CDs of Swift Linux, Linux Mint Debian Edition, and Linux Mint 12. Yes, the new release of Linux Mint Debian Edition renders Swift Linux 0.2.0 obsolete from the get go, but it's just in time for Installfest. If you use Ubuntu 10.04 LTS and are dreading the end of support of the last pre-Unity version, Linux Mint is the most logical replacement. If you are scraping by with the bare minimum specs for Ubuntu/Mint, then you need to try Linux Mint Debian Edition. LMDE is MUCH faster and lighter than the traditional Ubuntu-based Mint because it bypasses the enormous Ubuntu overhead. -- Jason Hsu, Linux literate software development engineer Founder and lead developer of Swift Linux (http://www.swiftlinux.org) Founder and lead developer of Doppler Value Investing (http://www.dopplervalueinvesting.com) From tlunde at gmail.com Tue Apr 24 21:20:18 2012 From: tlunde at gmail.com (Thomas Lunde) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 21:20:18 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] The new Linux Mint Debian Edition (201204) is available! In-Reply-To: <20120424194745.79abbde94f791615acf4c4d3@jasonhsu.com> References: <20120424194745.79abbde94f791615acf4c4d3@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: Ubuntu 10.04 has 3 more years' of support. On Apr 24, 2012, at 7:47 PM, Jason Hsu wrote: > http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1979 > > This is the first official release of Linux Mint Debian Edition for a post-GNOME2 world. MATE is the default desktop, and Cinnamon is provided as well. > > I'm looking forward to this Saturday's Installfest. I will bring CDs of Swift Linux, Linux Mint Debian Edition, and Linux Mint 12. > > Yes, the new release of Linux Mint Debian Edition renders Swift Linux 0.2.0 obsolete from the get go, but it's just in time for Installfest. If you use Ubuntu 10.04 LTS and are dreading the end of support of the last pre-Unity version, Linux Mint is the most logical replacement. If you are scraping by with the bare minimum specs for Ubuntu/Mint, then you need to try Linux Mint Debian Edition. LMDE is MUCH faster and lighter than the traditional Ubuntu-based Mint because it bypasses the enormous Ubuntu overhead. > > -- > Jason Hsu, Linux literate software development engineer > Founder and lead developer of Swift Linux (http://www.swiftlinux.org) > Founder and lead developer of Doppler Value Investing (http://www.dopplervalueinvesting.com) > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Apr 25 03:15:03 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 03:15:03 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] have a good overview of changes to new Ubuntu? Message-ID: The new Ubuntu 12.04 Precise Pangolin comes out tomorrow. I happened across this article... http://www.extremetech.com/computing/103797-ubuntu-12-04-precise-pangolin-unveiled ...but maybe someone here can suggest a better one. I wonder why Unity is a big issue -- can't we install whatever we want and us it? For example, KDE or Gnome - just choose one at login? I used to do that in Solaris about 12 years ago and it wasn't too big of a deal. Isn't it easy to do that with Ubuntu, too? Mike From tonyyarusso at gmail.com Wed Apr 25 10:05:11 2012 From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 10:05:11 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] have a good overview of changes to new Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 03:15, Mike Miller wrote: > I wonder why Unity is a big issue -- can't we install whatever we want and > us it? ?For example, KDE or Gnome - just choose one at login? ?I used to do > that in Solaris about 12 years ago and it wasn't too big of a deal. Isn't it > easy to do that with Ubuntu, too? Two things: 1. People like to get bent out of shape about defaults. 2. While it is easy to install Gnome (or more accurately, gnome-shell, as most of Gnome is already there), it is not possible to install Gnome 2.x, as that has been deprecated upstream for the new 3.x line. Since this change coincided with the introduction of Unity, a lot of people don't really understand what happened in the Gnome project itself and freak out that they can't have the same interface they used to. - Tony From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com Wed Apr 25 10:26:32 2012 From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 10:26:32 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] have a good overview of changes to new Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120425102632.31f5bd3874d0f50c512e5c8f@jasonhsu.com> On Wed, 25 Apr 2012 03:15:03 -0500 (CDT) Mike Miller wrote: > > I wonder why Unity is a big issue -- can't we install whatever we want and > us it? For example, KDE or Gnome - just choose one at login? I used to > do that in Solaris about 12 years ago and it wasn't too big of a deal. > Isn't it easy to do that with Ubuntu, too? > Yes, you can install a different desktop, but it's much more convenient to have your preferred desktop setup pre-installed. It's one thing if a distro isn't user-friendly out-of-the-box but is fast and lightweight. (Think of minimal Debian.) It's one thing if a distro is heavyweight but is user-friendly out-of-the-box. (Think of the Ubuntu-based editions of Linux Mint.) Ubuntu is the worst of both worlds. Its default setup isn't user-friendly, and it's the Hummer of Linux distros. For most of its history, Ubuntu could brag about being substantially lighter than the current Windows OS. Ubuntu has now caught up with Windows in the bloatware department and can no longer make this claim. -- Jason Hsu, Linux literate software development engineer Founder and lead developer of Swift Linux (http://www.swiftlinux.org) Founder and lead developer of Doppler Value Investing (http://www.dopplervalueinvesting.com) From erikerik at gmail.com Wed Apr 25 10:53:18 2012 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 10:53:18 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] have a good overview of changes to new Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <20120425102632.31f5bd3874d0f50c512e5c8f@jasonhsu.com> References: <20120425102632.31f5bd3874d0f50c512e5c8f@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Jason Hsu wrote: > Ubuntu has now caught up with Windows in the bloatware department and can no longer make this claim. Recent versions of Windows (where recent = Windows 7+) do not bear out your "bloatware" statement (unless you're including the crapware-laden OEM installs of Windows that manufacturers ship on their machines). I run OSX as my primary OS, but use a Windows 7 VM extensively for AD management, for running the VMware vSphere client, website testing in IE, and a few other tasks. I have it running within VirtualBox with 512 megs of ram. Yes, a half gig. I'll regularly have the VM running for *weeks* between reboots with zero performance issues. Typically the only time I reboot it is when VBox application updates come along. If it weren't for VBox updates, the Win7 VM would likely stay running until an OSX kernel (reboot required) update came along. I get it, we like to use Microsoft et. al. as our whipping boy. It's fun to do - to a point. It does no one good, though, to spread misinformation. Anyway, my usage of Ubuntu is primarily on the server side, and I find it (especially the LTS versions) to be an excellent server OS. It can be as "light" or "heavy" weight as you want it to be. You get the benefits of a Debian-esque system, without having to jump through hoops (a.k.a. backports repos) to get reasonably up-to-date packages. -Erik From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Wed Apr 25 11:46:08 2012 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 11:46:08 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] have a good overview of changes to new Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <20120425102632.31f5bd3874d0f50c512e5c8f@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: At my POE, we have a saying that "your brand is what you did when *dot dot dot*". Where the "dot dot dot" means "fill in the blank." We're saying this a lot at my POE, because we have some brand-repair to do. Microsoft also has to deal with the same reality with regard to their brand, and I would say they have more than enough power to improve the OEM experience for customers. If the general perception is that Windows is bloated, I would say that there's some validity to that. Maybe it's not directly Microsoft's fault, but too bad. That's business. They have a long standing relationship with their OEM's and it's within their power to improve customers' experience such that the perception of M$ products improves. Erik, I think it reflects on how tremendously fair and objective YOU are that you actually notice this about Windows 7. However, being a M$ user against my will for years, I feel I have a right to still feel jaded about how I've been treated as a customer and user. So my point is: I wouldn't go so far as to say that people are spreading misinformation. Rather, I'd say you've enlightened us with this bit of information. I think it's quite interesting. That is all. -Erik On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Erik Anderson wrote: > On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Jason Hsu wrote: >> Ubuntu has now caught up with Windows in the bloatware department and can no longer make this claim. > > Recent versions of Windows (where recent = Windows 7+) do not bear out > your "bloatware" statement (unless you're including the crapware-laden > OEM installs of Windows that manufacturers ship on their machines). > > I run OSX as my primary OS, but use a Windows 7 VM extensively for AD > management, for running the VMware vSphere client, website testing in > IE, and a few other tasks. I have it running within VirtualBox with > 512 megs of ram. Yes, a half gig. I'll regularly have the VM running > for *weeks* between reboots with zero performance issues. Typically > the only time I reboot it is when VBox application updates come along. > If it weren't for VBox updates, the Win7 VM would likely stay running > until an OSX kernel (reboot required) update came along. > > I get it, we like to use Microsoft et. al. as our whipping boy. It's > fun to do - to a point. It does no one good, though, to spread > misinformation. > > Anyway, my usage of Ubuntu is primarily on the server side, and I find > it (especially the LTS versions) to be an excellent server OS. It can > be as "light" or "heavy" weight as you want it to be. You get the > benefits of a Debian-esque system, without having to jump through > hoops (a.k.a. backports repos) to get reasonably up-to-date packages. > > -Erik > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Erik K. Mitchell erik.mitchell at gmail.com From tclug at beitsahour.net Wed Apr 25 11:47:54 2012 From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 11:47:54 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] have a good overview of changes to new Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <20120425102632.31f5bd3874d0f50c512e5c8f@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 10:53, Erik Anderson wrote: > On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Jason Hsu wrote: >> Ubuntu has now caught up with Windows in the bloatware department and can no longer make this claim. > > Recent versions of Windows (where recent = Windows 7+) do not bear out > your "bloatware" statement (unless you're including the crapware-laden > OEM installs of Windows that manufacturers ship on their machines). > > I run OSX as my primary OS, but use a Windows 7 VM extensively for AD > management, for running the VMware vSphere client, website testing in > IE, and a few other tasks. I have it running within VirtualBox with > 512 megs of ram. Yes, a half gig. I'll regularly have the VM running > for *weeks* between reboots with zero performance issues. Typically > the only time I reboot it is when VBox application updates come along. > If it weren't for VBox updates, the Win7 VM would likely stay running > until an OSX kernel (reboot required) update came along. that is funny, because that is not my experience with windows 7 at all. I just installed Windows 7 Enterprise (not part of my job, but sometimes you cannot help it) on a system with 2GB ram. It ran out of memory and slowed to a crawl just doing the post install system updates. Stock system. Nothing on it. Brand new hardware(and yes, i have considered defective hardware but the symptoms are not that of bad hardware). I am not saying Ubuntu is any better: i am sick and tired of Ubuntu's callousness with RAM and Cycles. I really do not want it to check for updates every time it wakes up because it is a netbook. i put it to sleep maybe 20 times a day. Waking up the wireless card, spending one or two minutes to decide that my network is not in range and trying all the other ones before failing or worse, getting stuck in a captive portal. If it does work, it will then proceed to rebuild a bunch of databases sucking up more CPU and precious Disk IO, RIGHT WHEN I NEED IT MOST. And yes, i can and have disabled all that. But the fact that the Ubuntu devs thought it was a good idea in the first place tells me that they have an even more limited user base targeted. than the usual Linux developers and i am not in that user base. From erikerik at gmail.com Wed Apr 25 13:19:19 2012 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 13:19:19 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] have a good overview of changes to new Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <20120425102632.31f5bd3874d0f50c512e5c8f@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 11:46 AM, Erik Mitchell wrote: > At my POE, we have a saying that "your brand is what you did when *dot > dot dot*". Where the "dot dot dot" means "fill in the blank." Yah, MS has definitely shot themselves in the foot multiple times in the past, and are likely to do so again if they keep the Windows 8 UI and licensing the way they are currently. We'll have to see... > Erik, I think it reflects on how tremendously fair and objective YOU > are that you actually notice this about Windows 7. However, being a M$ > user against my will for years, I feel I have a right to still feel > jaded about how I've been treated as a customer and user. Yes, that's absolutely fair. > So my point is: I wouldn't go so far as to say that people are > spreading misinformation. Rather, I'd say you've enlightened us with > this bit of information. I think it's quite interesting. That was probably the curmudgeon in me coming out. :) I just wanted to provide an example of where Windows is not necessarily as bloated as some may think. -Erik From erikerik at gmail.com Wed Apr 25 13:28:03 2012 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 13:28:03 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] have a good overview of changes to new Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <20120425102632.31f5bd3874d0f50c512e5c8f@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 11:47 AM, Munir Nassar wrote: > that is funny, because that is not my experience with windows 7 at all. > I just installed Windows 7 Enterprise (not part of my job, but > sometimes you cannot help it) on a system with 2GB ram. It ran out of > memory and slowed to a crawl just doing the post install system > updates. Stock system. Nothing on it. Brand new hardware(and yes, i > have considered defective hardware but the symptoms are not that of > bad hardware). Perhaps I just got lucky with my configuration then? I dunno - I'm running it on fairly new hardware (SSD, i7 CPU, DDR3 RAM, yadda yadda). If you were running on old-ish hardware and slow disk, I could see either Ubuntu or Windows 7 being a problem. From max at bernsteinforpresident.com Wed Apr 25 13:46:37 2012 From: max at bernsteinforpresident.com (Max Shinn) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 13:46:37 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] have a good overview of changes to new Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <20120425102632.31f5bd3874d0f50c512e5c8f@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 11:47 AM, Munir Nassar wrote: > And yes, i can and have disabled all that. But the fact that the > Ubuntu devs thought it was a good idea in the first place tells me > that they have an even more limited user base targeted. than the usual > Linux developers and i am not in that user base. Of course. Nobody who knows anything about GNU/Linux is going to be happy with the default configuration. That is no reason to dismiss the entire system. I stripped off most of the daemons from my installation and installed e17. The truth of the matter is that most computer users are attracted by systems with gazillions of easy-to-use bells and whistles, and most computer users have fast enough computers to handle word processing and web browsing (the only two things most computer users will do) with these CPU-clogging features. -- Max Shinn max at BernsteinForPresident.com www.BernsteinForPresident.com From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Wed Apr 25 17:33:04 2012 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 17:33:04 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] have a good overview of changes to new Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <20120425102632.31f5bd3874d0f50c512e5c8f@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: > > > And yes, i can and have disabled all that. But the fact that the > > Ubuntu devs thought it was a good idea in the first place tells me > > that they have an even more limited user base targeted. than the usual > > Linux developers and i am not in that user base. > > Of course. Nobody who knows anything about GNU/Linux is going to be > happy with the default configuration. That is no reason to dismiss > the entire system. I stripped off most of the daemons from my > installation and installed e17. The truth of the matter is that most > computer users are attracted by systems with gazillions of easy-to-use > bells and whistles, and most computer users have fast enough computers > to handle word processing and web browsing (the only two things most > computer users will do) with these CPU-clogging features. > i installed precise from the core tar.gz. super fast download. byoui. no bloat. but then, if you go and apt-get install some-desktop, well, that's another matter. lubuntu-desktop is pretty fair. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Apr 25 18:43:58 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 18:43:58 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] anything *good* about Unity? Message-ID: I don't know why Ubuntu has gone with Unity when it seems to be very unpopular, so I'm thinking there must be at least *something* good about it. I wonder if I should be giving it a chance. I seem to have it on my laptop, and I don't like it, but that might be entirely because I don't really understand it. Things that used to be easy are now hard. But if I were to learn it, maybe that would change everything. Any opinions out there? I expect a few and I would like to hear them. What I would like most to find is some kind of Unity tutorial written by someone who actually likes it. It isn't hard to find tutorials.... http://www.google.com/search?q=ubuntu+unity+tutorial ...would any of you recommend one of those? Maybe one is the standard source or the established One True Way. Mike From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com Fri Apr 27 11:42:23 2012 From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 11:42:23 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] *Tomorrow* Penguins Unbound Install Fest/Release Party April 28th Message-ID: <4F9ACC6F.3050502@Goecke-Dolan.com> This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be Saturday April 28th at TIES, 1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108 from 9:00am to 5:00pm (See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more info.) This month at the Penguins Unbound Meeting will be Install Fest / Release Party April 28th 9:00am to 5:00pm So bring your computer and come on down and install the new Ubuntu 12.04 LTS ( Precise Pangolin ) or any Linux distribution you like! The doors will be open from 9:00am to 5:00pm Special Thanks to ProGeek, LLC doug at progeekonline.com 952.373.1057 Who has kindly loaned us a server to use as a install-fest server! Thanks Doug! Hope to see you there! ==>brian. I will try to stream some of the install fest. I am not sure I will stream the whole time, so if it isn't working you should try again later. Thanks. *** STREAMING *** If you can't make it you can use this url to stream the meeting. mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 You should be able to connect with either: mplayer mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 or vlc http://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri Apr 27 13:05:48 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 13:05:48 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] updating Ubuntu Message-ID: With Ubuntu, if I haven't updated for a couple of releases, can I just skip to the current one, or do I have to go through all of the steps? I guess I have 10.10 on one machine, so to get to 12.04, do I have to go through 11.04 and 11.10 to get there? At what point is it better to just install the OS from scratch? Mike From tonyyarusso at gmail.com Fri Apr 27 13:21:06 2012 From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 13:21:06 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] updating Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You can go from one LTS to the next LTS, and only to the next release from non-LTS releases. So, from 10.10, you would need to go through 11.04, 11.10, then 12.04. If you were coming from 9.10, you could go to 10.04 and then directly from there to 12.04. It all depends on which is more work for you - fussing with multiple upgrade steps, or fussing with getting your data off and back on again. - Tony From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Fri Apr 27 14:17:21 2012 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:17:21 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] updating Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > At what point is it better to just install the OS from scratch? > in my experience you can sometimes get away with upgrades, but more often they bite. lucid to maverick croaked. it's always better to install from scratch. my favorite approach is install in another partition (the installer can help you shrink an existing partition if you don't already have one available). a lean OS install can fit in under a gig, 2g will be plenty for most any install. more is better of course, but i've done with less and done fine. anyway that way your data, and even your current OS, are still there, AND you have a fresh and clean install. i usually finally reuse the prior partition when i'm ready to install yet another release. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgreenly at gmail.com Fri Apr 27 15:56:23 2012 From: mgreenly at gmail.com (Michael Greenly) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 15:56:23 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] updating Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've had mixed results with upgrades also. I've fallen into the practice of backing up /home to external storage and doing clean installs on fresh partitions. Then I cherry pick what I want from the backup. On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 2:17 PM, gregrwm wrote: > At what point is it better to just install the OS from scratch? >> > > in my experience you can sometimes get away with upgrades, but more often > they bite. lucid to maverick croaked. it's always better to install from > scratch. my favorite approach is install in another partition (the > installer can help you shrink an existing partition if you don't already > have one available). a lean OS install can fit in under a gig, 2g will be > plenty for most any install. more is better of course, but i've done with > less and done fine. anyway that way your data, and even your current OS, > are still there, AND you have a fresh and clean install. i usually finally > reuse the prior partition when i'm ready to install yet another release. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Michael Greenly http://logic-refinery.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri Apr 27 17:17:58 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:17:58 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] updating Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Apr 2012, Michael Greenly wrote: > I've had mixed results with upgrades also. I've fallen into the > practice of backing up /home to external storage and doing clean > installs on fresh partitions. Then I cherry pick what I want from the > backup. Thanks to all. I have a pretty good back-up method, so I think I'll go with the fresh-install approach. There are a few places where I typically put files that might differ from those in the new installation: /home (of course), /etc (config files), /usr/local (scripts I've written, programs I've compiled). After that there are all the Ubuntu packages to deal with, but that isn't too big of a problem -- if I forget one, then when I realize it is missing, I just install it. I think I'll come visit the installfest for a bit, maybe bring a computer to play around with. Having two kids now makes it harder (new boy is 7 months old), but I can bring my daughter (4.5 years) and let her watch movies on her laptop (wearing headphones). She's pretty good at that ... maybe too good. ;-) Mike From nesius at gmail.com Fri Apr 27 21:21:04 2012 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 21:21:04 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] updating Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've had good luck with dist-upgrades the last few times I've done them. The one lesson I learned is to not deploy services running over the system perl, ruby, etc... I use homebrew and rvm to provision perl/ruby to services. That way I don't have to deal with modules getting yanked out from under me when they rev perl. I do run over the system mysql, but that generally has never been a big problem. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From galanolwe at yahoo.com Sat Apr 28 10:32:10 2012 From: galanolwe at yahoo.com (Olwe Bottorff) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 08:32:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Home ssh headache Message-ID: <1335627130.95513.YahooMailNeo@web161606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I'm trying to run a server on my home wireless network. Just installed Ubuntu 12.04 Server on a box and set up openssh-server. It is running fine, listening on port 22. I can use Nautilus on my other Ubuntu (11.10 desktop) to log in just fine. But then I could not get the U11.10 box's ssh client to log in. It sees it. I can ping it. It attempts a login, but always comes back "Permission denied, please try again." But then it started working! Don't really know why. But good. So I set up a new account on the server, and I try Nautilus. Again, Nautilus works . . . and now the ssh client won't. Tried Filezilla on my U11.10 box, but it follows the ssh client: magically works for the old server account, won't for the account newly created on the server. Any ideas what I'm doing wrong here? Here's my ssh_config: # Package generated configuration file # See the sshd_config(5) manpage for details # What ports, IPs and protocols we listen for Port 22 # Use these options to restrict which interfaces/protocols sshd will bind to #ListenAddress :: #ListenAddress 0.0.0.0 Protocol 2 # HostKeys for protocol version 2 HostKey /etc/ssh/ssh_host_rsa_key HostKey /etc/ssh/ssh_host_dsa_key HostKey /etc/ssh/ssh_host_ecdsa_key #Privilege Separation is turned on for security UsePrivilegeSeparation yes # Lifetime and size of ephemeral version 1 server key KeyRegenerationInterval 3600 ServerKeyBits 768 # Logging SyslogFacility AUTH LogLevel INFO # Authentication: LoginGraceTime 120 PermitRootLogin yes StrictModes yes RSAAuthentication yes PubkeyAuthentication yes #AuthorizedKeysFile ? ? %h/.ssh/authorized_keys # Don't read the user's ~/.rhosts and ~/.shosts files IgnoreRhosts yes # For this to work you will also need host keys in /etc/ssh_known_hosts RhostsRSAAuthentication no # similar for protocol version 2 HostbasedAuthentication no # Uncomment if you don't trust ~/.ssh/known_hosts for RhostsRSAAuthentication #IgnoreUserKnownHosts yes # To enable empty passwords, change to yes (NOT RECOMMENDED) PermitEmptyPasswords no # Change to yes to enable challenge-response passwords (beware issues with # some PAM modules and threads) ChallengeResponseAuthentication no # Change to no to disable tunnelled clear text passwords #PasswordAuthentication yes # Kerberos options #KerberosAuthentication no #KerberosGetAFSToken no #KerberosOrLocalPasswd yes #KerberosTicketCleanup yes # GSSAPI options #GSSAPIAuthentication no #GSSAPICleanupCredentials yes X11Forwarding yes X11DisplayOffset 10 PrintMotd no PrintLastLog yes TCPKeepAlive yes #UseLogin no #MaxStartups 10:30:60 #Banner /etc/issue.net # Allow client to pass locale environment variables AcceptEnv LANG LC_* Subsystem sftp /usr/lib/openssh/sftp-server # Set this to 'yes' to enable PAM authentication, account processing, # and session processing. If this is enabled, PAM authentication will # be allowed through the ChallengeResponseAuthentication and # PasswordAuthentication. ?Depending on your PAM configuration, # PAM authentication via ChallengeResponseAuthentication may bypass # the setting of "PermitRootLogin without-password". # If you just want the PAM account and session checks to run without # PAM authentication, then enable this but set PasswordAuthentication # and ChallengeResponseAuthentication to 'no'. UsePAM yes -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jake.vath at gmail.com Sat Apr 28 10:37:13 2012 From: jake.vath at gmail.com (Jake Vath) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 10:37:13 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Home ssh headache In-Reply-To: <1335627130.95513.YahooMailNeo@web161606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1335627130.95513.YahooMailNeo@web161606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Who are you try to *SSH* as? not root, correct? Is the *SSH* daemons running on the other box? Do you have deny.hosts or anything like that setup? On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > I'm trying to run a server on my home wireless network. Just installed > Ubuntu 12.04 Server on a box and set up openssh-server. It is running fine, > listening on port 22. I can use Nautilus on my other Ubuntu (11.10 desktop) > to log in just fine. But then I could not get the U11.10 box's ssh client > to log in. It sees it. I can ping it. It attempts a login, but always comes > back "Permission denied, please try again." But then it started working! > Don't really know why. But good. So I set up a new account on the server, > and I try Nautilus. Again, Nautilus works . . . and now the ssh client > won't. Tried Filezilla on my U11.10 box, but it follows the ssh client: > magically works for the old server account, won't for the account newly > created on the server. Any ideas what I'm doing wrong here? > > Here's my ssh_config: > > # Package generated configuration file > # See the sshd_config(5) manpage for details > > # What ports, IPs and protocols we listen for > Port 22 > # Use these options to restrict which interfaces/protocols sshd will bind > to > #ListenAddress :: > #ListenAddress 0.0.0.0 > Protocol 2 > # HostKeys for protocol version 2 > HostKey /etc/ssh/ssh_host_rsa_key > HostKey /etc/ssh/ssh_host_dsa_key > HostKey /etc/ssh/ssh_host_ecdsa_key > #Privilege Separation is turned on for security > UsePrivilegeSeparation yes > > # Lifetime and size of ephemeral version 1 server key > KeyRegenerationInterval 3600 > ServerKeyBits 768 > > # Logging > SyslogFacility AUTH > LogLevel INFO > > # Authentication: > LoginGraceTime 120 > PermitRootLogin yes > StrictModes yes > > RSAAuthentication yes > PubkeyAuthentication yes > #AuthorizedKeysFile %h/.ssh/authorized_keys > > # Don't read the user's ~/.rhosts and ~/.shosts files > IgnoreRhosts yes > # For this to work you will also need host keys in /etc/ssh_known_hosts > RhostsRSAAuthentication no > # similar for protocol version 2 > HostbasedAuthentication no > # Uncomment if you don't trust ~/.ssh/known_hosts for > RhostsRSAAuthentication > #IgnoreUserKnownHosts yes > > # To enable empty passwords, change to yes (NOT RECOMMENDED) > PermitEmptyPasswords no > > # Change to yes to enable challenge-response passwords (beware issues with > # some PAM modules and threads) > ChallengeResponseAuthentication no > > # Change to no to disable tunnelled clear text passwords > #PasswordAuthentication yes > > # Kerberos options > #KerberosAuthentication no > #KerberosGetAFSToken no > #KerberosOrLocalPasswd yes > #KerberosTicketCleanup yes > > # GSSAPI options > #GSSAPIAuthentication no > #GSSAPICleanupCredentials yes > > X11Forwarding yes > X11DisplayOffset 10 > PrintMotd no > PrintLastLog yes > TCPKeepAlive yes > #UseLogin no > > #MaxStartups 10:30:60 > #Banner /etc/issue.net > > # Allow client to pass locale environment variables > AcceptEnv LANG LC_* > > Subsystem sftp /usr/lib/openssh/sftp-server > > # Set this to 'yes' to enable PAM authentication, account processing, > # and session processing. If this is enabled, PAM authentication will > # be allowed through the ChallengeResponseAuthentication and > # PasswordAuthentication. Depending on your PAM configuration, > # PAM authentication via ChallengeResponseAuthentication may bypass > # the setting of "PermitRootLogin without-password". > # If you just want the PAM account and session checks to run without > # PAM authentication, then enable this but set PasswordAuthentication > # and ChallengeResponseAuthentication to 'no'. > UsePAM yes > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From galanolwe at yahoo.com Sat Apr 28 11:23:56 2012 From: galanolwe at yahoo.com (Olwe Bottorff) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 09:23:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Home ssh headache In-Reply-To: References: <1335627130.95513.YahooMailNeo@web161606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1335627878.17754.YahooMailNeo@web161601.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1335630236.47434.YahooMailNeo@web161606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I've tried it on a second home machine with the same results: No access with the new account, but yes with the first => this is something with the sshd on the server. And no, the host.allow, host.deny are blank. >________________________________ > From: Jake Vath >To: Olwe Bottorff >Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 10:49 AM >Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Home ssh headache > > >If you look in /etc/ you will, usually, find hosts, host.allow, and host.deny. >However, you probably don't have any entries in there if you personally didn't set them up. >I don't know of any default configurations that would add entries to any of those files. > > >On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > > >>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jake.vath at gmail.com Sat Apr 28 11:37:26 2012 From: jake.vath at gmail.com (Jake Vath) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 11:37:26 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Home ssh headache In-Reply-To: <1335630236.47434.YahooMailNeo@web161606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1335627130.95513.YahooMailNeo@web161606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1335627878.17754.YahooMailNeo@web161601.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1335630236.47434.YahooMailNeo@web161606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hmm, this is very odd. I don't know what to tell you... I'll look at some of my settings when I get home and let you know if I find anything. Hopefully, someone with more *SSH* knowledge than me will reply. Did you make any changes to the config files? Have you restarted the *SSHD* daemon? On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > I've tried it on a second home machine with the same results: No access > with the new account, but yes with the first => this is something with the > sshd on the server. And no, the host.allow, host.deny are blank. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Jake Vath > *To:* Olwe Bottorff > *Sent:* Saturday, April 28, 2012 10:49 AM > *Subject:* Re: [tclug-list] Home ssh headache > > If you look in */etc/* you will, usually, find *hosts*, *host.allow*, and > *host.deny*. > However, you probably don't have any entries in there if *you* personally > didn't set them up. > I don't know of any default configurations that would add entries to any > of those files. > > On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nesius at gmail.com Sat Apr 28 11:41:09 2012 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 11:41:09 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Home ssh headache In-Reply-To: <1335627130.95513.YahooMailNeo@web161606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1335627130.95513.YahooMailNeo@web161606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: What are the default shells for the users you're logging in as? If I read this right, when you try to log in as a newly created user - *boom* Letting services connect through ssh works? It would really help if you showed screen captures of your "works" and "doesn't work" experiments. -Rob On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > I'm trying to run a server on my home wireless network. Just installed > Ubuntu 12.04 Server on a box and set up openssh-server. It is running fine, > listening on port 22. I can use Nautilus on my other Ubuntu (11.10 desktop) > to log in just fine. But then I could not get the U11.10 box's ssh client > to log in. It sees it. I can ping it. It attempts a login, but always comes > back "Permission denied, please try again." But then it started working! > Don't really know why. But good. So I set up a new account on the server, > and I try Nautilus. Again, Nautilus works . . . and now the ssh client > won't. Tried Filezilla on my U11.10 box, but it follows the ssh client: > magically works for the old server account, won't for the account newly > created on the server. Any ideas what I'm doing wrong here? > > Here's my ssh_config: > > # Package generated configuration file > # See the sshd_config(5) manpage for details > > # What ports, IPs and protocols we listen for > Port 22 > # Use these options to restrict which interfaces/protocols sshd will bind > to > #ListenAddress :: > #ListenAddress 0.0.0.0 > Protocol 2 > # HostKeys for protocol version 2 > HostKey /etc/ssh/ssh_host_rsa_key > HostKey /etc/ssh/ssh_host_dsa_key > HostKey /etc/ssh/ssh_host_ecdsa_key > #Privilege Separation is turned on for security > UsePrivilegeSeparation yes > > # Lifetime and size of ephemeral version 1 server key > KeyRegenerationInterval 3600 > ServerKeyBits 768 > > # Logging > SyslogFacility AUTH > LogLevel INFO > > # Authentication: > LoginGraceTime 120 > PermitRootLogin yes > StrictModes yes > > RSAAuthentication yes > PubkeyAuthentication yes > #AuthorizedKeysFile %h/.ssh/authorized_keys > > # Don't read the user's ~/.rhosts and ~/.shosts files > IgnoreRhosts yes > # For this to work you will also need host keys in /etc/ssh_known_hosts > RhostsRSAAuthentication no > # similar for protocol version 2 > HostbasedAuthentication no > # Uncomment if you don't trust ~/.ssh/known_hosts for > RhostsRSAAuthentication > #IgnoreUserKnownHosts yes > > # To enable empty passwords, change to yes (NOT RECOMMENDED) > PermitEmptyPasswords no > > # Change to yes to enable challenge-response passwords (beware issues with > # some PAM modules and threads) > ChallengeResponseAuthentication no > > # Change to no to disable tunnelled clear text passwords > #PasswordAuthentication yes > > # Kerberos options > #KerberosAuthentication no > #KerberosGetAFSToken no > #KerberosOrLocalPasswd yes > #KerberosTicketCleanup yes > > # GSSAPI options > #GSSAPIAuthentication no > #GSSAPICleanupCredentials yes > > X11Forwarding yes > X11DisplayOffset 10 > PrintMotd no > PrintLastLog yes > TCPKeepAlive yes > #UseLogin no > > #MaxStartups 10:30:60 > #Banner /etc/issue.net > > # Allow client to pass locale environment variables > AcceptEnv LANG LC_* > > Subsystem sftp /usr/lib/openssh/sftp-server > > # Set this to 'yes' to enable PAM authentication, account processing, > # and session processing. If this is enabled, PAM authentication will > # be allowed through the ChallengeResponseAuthentication and > # PasswordAuthentication. Depending on your PAM configuration, > # PAM authentication via ChallengeResponseAuthentication may bypass > # the setting of "PermitRootLogin without-password". > # If you just want the PAM account and session checks to run without > # PAM authentication, then enable this but set PasswordAuthentication > # and ChallengeResponseAuthentication to 'no'. > UsePAM yes > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nesius at gmail.com Sat Apr 28 11:44:48 2012 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 11:44:48 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Home ssh headache In-Reply-To: References: <1335627130.95513.YahooMailNeo@web161606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: p.s. You can probably tell sshd to log more verbosely to help you debug it. Did you check /var/log/auth? -Rob On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Robert Nesius wrote: > What are the default shells for the users you're logging in as? > > If I read this right, when you try to log in as a newly created user - > *boom* > > Letting services connect through ssh works? > > It would really help if you showed screen captures of your "works" and > "doesn't work" experiments. > > -Rob > > > On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > >> I'm trying to run a server on my home wireless network. Just installed >> Ubuntu 12.04 Server on a box and set up openssh-server. It is running fine, >> listening on port 22. I can use Nautilus on my other Ubuntu (11.10 desktop) >> to log in just fine. But then I could not get the U11.10 box's ssh client >> to log in. It sees it. I can ping it. It attempts a login, but always comes >> back "Permission denied, please try again." But then it started working! >> Don't really know why. But good. So I set up a new account on the server, >> and I try Nautilus. Again, Nautilus works . . . and now the ssh client >> won't. Tried Filezilla on my U11.10 box, but it follows the ssh client: >> magically works for the old server account, won't for the account newly >> created on the server. Any ideas what I'm doing wrong here? >> >> Here's my ssh_config: >> >> # Package generated configuration file >> # See the sshd_config(5) manpage for details >> >> # What ports, IPs and protocols we listen for >> Port 22 >> # Use these options to restrict which interfaces/protocols sshd will bind >> to >> #ListenAddress :: >> #ListenAddress 0.0.0.0 >> Protocol 2 >> # HostKeys for protocol version 2 >> HostKey /etc/ssh/ssh_host_rsa_key >> HostKey /etc/ssh/ssh_host_dsa_key >> HostKey /etc/ssh/ssh_host_ecdsa_key >> #Privilege Separation is turned on for security >> UsePrivilegeSeparation yes >> >> # Lifetime and size of ephemeral version 1 server key >> KeyRegenerationInterval 3600 >> ServerKeyBits 768 >> >> # Logging >> SyslogFacility AUTH >> LogLevel INFO >> >> # Authentication: >> LoginGraceTime 120 >> PermitRootLogin yes >> StrictModes yes >> >> RSAAuthentication yes >> PubkeyAuthentication yes >> #AuthorizedKeysFile %h/.ssh/authorized_keys >> >> # Don't read the user's ~/.rhosts and ~/.shosts files >> IgnoreRhosts yes >> # For this to work you will also need host keys in /etc/ssh_known_hosts >> RhostsRSAAuthentication no >> # similar for protocol version 2 >> HostbasedAuthentication no >> # Uncomment if you don't trust ~/.ssh/known_hosts for >> RhostsRSAAuthentication >> #IgnoreUserKnownHosts yes >> >> # To enable empty passwords, change to yes (NOT RECOMMENDED) >> PermitEmptyPasswords no >> >> # Change to yes to enable challenge-response passwords (beware issues with >> # some PAM modules and threads) >> ChallengeResponseAuthentication no >> >> # Change to no to disable tunnelled clear text passwords >> #PasswordAuthentication yes >> >> # Kerberos options >> #KerberosAuthentication no >> #KerberosGetAFSToken no >> #KerberosOrLocalPasswd yes >> #KerberosTicketCleanup yes >> >> # GSSAPI options >> #GSSAPIAuthentication no >> #GSSAPICleanupCredentials yes >> >> X11Forwarding yes >> X11DisplayOffset 10 >> PrintMotd no >> PrintLastLog yes >> TCPKeepAlive yes >> #UseLogin no >> >> #MaxStartups 10:30:60 >> #Banner /etc/issue.net >> >> # Allow client to pass locale environment variables >> AcceptEnv LANG LC_* >> >> Subsystem sftp /usr/lib/openssh/sftp-server >> >> # Set this to 'yes' to enable PAM authentication, account processing, >> # and session processing. If this is enabled, PAM authentication will >> # be allowed through the ChallengeResponseAuthentication and >> # PasswordAuthentication. Depending on your PAM configuration, >> # PAM authentication via ChallengeResponseAuthentication may bypass >> # the setting of "PermitRootLogin without-password". >> # If you just want the PAM account and session checks to run without >> # PAM authentication, then enable this but set PasswordAuthentication >> # and ChallengeResponseAuthentication to 'no'. >> UsePAM yes >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From galanolwe at yahoo.com Sat Apr 28 13:19:36 2012 From: galanolwe at yahoo.com (Olwe Bottorff) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 11:19:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Home ssh headache In-Reply-To: References: <1335627130.95513.YahooMailNeo@web161606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1335637176.21737.YahooMailNeo@web161602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Problem solved. Apparently, my useradd command? server>sudo useradd -d /home/olwe2-serve -m olwe2-serve didn't create a viable account somehow (at least for logging in via ssh). adduser did, though. It's just that this problem mimicked my problem from yesterday when I had the same symptom because of a messed-up ssdh_config script. I do appreciate everyone's help, though. Olwe GM,MN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jake.vath at gmail.com Sat Apr 28 13:25:07 2012 From: jake.vath at gmail.com (Jake Vath) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 13:25:07 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Home ssh headache In-Reply-To: <1335637176.21737.YahooMailNeo@web161602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1335627130.95513.YahooMailNeo@web161606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1335637176.21737.YahooMailNeo@web161602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ohhh haha, that would do it. I'm glad you figured it out. On Apr 28, 2012 1:19 PM, "Olwe Bottorff" wrote: > Problem solved. > > Apparently, my useradd command > > server>sudo useradd -d /home/olwe2-serve -m olwe2-serve > > didn't create a viable account somehow (at least for logging in via ssh). > adduser did, though. > > It's just that this problem mimicked my problem from yesterday when I had > the same symptom because of a messed-up ssdh_config script. > > I do appreciate everyone's help, though. > > Olwe > GM,MN > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jus at krytosvirus.com Sun Apr 29 01:36:36 2012 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 01:36:36 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] updating Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1335681396.7613.7.camel@sysadmin3a> I upgraded a server (no GUI) from 9.04 to 10.04 through two consecutive upgrades. No problems at all. On Fri, 2012-04-27 at 13:05 -0500, Mike Miller wrote: > With Ubuntu, if I haven't updated for a couple of releases, can I just > skip to the current one, or do I have to go through all of the steps? I > guess I have 10.10 on one machine, so to get to 12.04, do I have to go > through 11.04 and 11.10 to get there? > > At what point is it better to just install the OS from scratch? > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Sun Apr 29 08:17:59 2012 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 08:17:59 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] what's best? Message-ID: my friend reid has had enough registry trouble with his XP laptop that he is finally coming to me wanting help to install linux. now i'm the sort who installs precise from the core tar.gz (why bother buy & burn blanks? why annoy myself with installers?), so i'm thinking grab whatever live CD may be lying around, backup XP with dd if=partition|ssh dd, shrink that XP partition, plunk in precise core, apt-get willy nilly, including virtualbox for his must-have XP programs. but wait, i dunno that just any live CD can be relied upon to shrink ntfs. this is where i'd like to hear your experiences. if we must burn something, of course there are a million answers, but in your opinion, what's best? i tend to be attracted to LTS knowing i won't be forced to install again all too soon, but i feel the tempting pull of the notion that mint may be more suited to an inveterate windoze user, more likely to leave him happy than precise. and there's the question of that dd backup, are there approaches you'd say are quicker or smarter (no handy external disc here)? as for partitioning, i'm always in favor of leaving the original in place until the new has actually proven to obviate it. given that he's already filled 35g of the 60g disc leaving 25g to play with, how much would you throw to swap? which installers or others would you certify as reliable for shrinking ntfs? is it best to use winders defrag first? From nesius at gmail.com Sun Apr 29 10:56:21 2012 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 10:56:21 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] what's best? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'd use the clonezilla live cd for the back-up. It will make an image only as large as the the amount of space allocated in the filesystem. It can back up to other drives, including USB drives and it can back up to other computers via ssh. If you're not doing forensics, no need to make images with dd IMHO. My $0.02. -Rob Sent from my iPhone On Apr 29, 2012, at 8:17 AM, gregrwm wrote: > my friend reid has had enough registry trouble with his XP laptop that > he is finally coming to me wanting help to install linux. now i'm the > sort who installs precise from the core tar.gz (why bother buy & burn > blanks? why annoy myself with installers?), so i'm thinking grab > whatever live CD may be lying around, backup XP with dd > if=partition|ssh dd, shrink that XP partition, plunk in precise core, > apt-get willy nilly, including virtualbox for his must-have XP > programs. but wait, i dunno that just any live CD can be relied upon > to shrink ntfs. this is where i'd like to hear your experiences. if > we must burn something, of course there are a million answers, but in > your opinion, what's best? i tend to be attracted to LTS knowing i > won't be forced to install again all too soon, but i feel the tempting > pull of the notion that mint may be more suited to an inveterate > windoze user, more likely to leave him happy than precise. and > there's the question of that dd backup, are there approaches you'd say > are quicker or smarter (no handy external disc here)? as for > partitioning, i'm always in favor of leaving the original in place > until the new has actually proven to obviate it. given that he's > already filled 35g of the 60g disc leaving 25g to play with, how much > would you throw to swap? which installers or others would you certify > as reliable for shrinking ntfs? is it best to use winders defrag > first? > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at lctn.org Sun Apr 29 11:57:05 2012 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 11:57:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dazzle DVC170 on ubuntu Message-ID: <4F9D72E1.3090806@lctn.org> I have a Dazzle DVC170 I would like to get running on Mint ( oneiric). I have run across some old conversations about trying to get it to run on older versions of Ubuntu, but nothing new. Anyone know if progress has been made, or of a good howto? The device is USB. Raymond From eng at pinenet.com Sun Apr 29 14:44:24 2012 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 14:44:24 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] what's best? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F9D9A18.7050303@pinenet.com> I've been using SuSE linux since SuSE Pro 6.1. I bought 6 openSuSE 11.3 DVDs that included much of the repositories from OSDisc.com a few years ago to save several gigs of downloads. Other than setting up the X window system for a new LCD display modeline, I couldn't be more pleased. I should upgrade soon. But it will be SuSE. Some youngsters I know thought they were getting into linux with Ubuntu, and when they needed to fix something we couldn't even log in as root. Fedora was an OK replacement for Red Hat. The rest I dunno, seem like somebody's reinvented Unix. gregrwm wrote: > my friend reid has had enough registry trouble with his XP laptop that > he is finally coming to me wanting help to install linux. now i'm the > sort who installs precise from the core tar.gz (why bother buy& burn > blanks? why annoy myself with installers?), so i'm thinking grab > whatever live CD may be lying around, backup XP with dd > if=partition|ssh dd, shrink that XP partition, plunk in precise core, > apt-get willy nilly, including virtualbox for his must-have XP > programs. but wait, i dunno that just any live CD can be relied upon > to shrink ntfs. this is where i'd like to hear your experiences. if > we must burn something, of course there are a million answers, but in > your opinion, what's best? i tend to be attracted to LTS knowing i > won't be forced to install again all too soon, but i feel the tempting > pull of the notion that mint may be more suited to an inveterate > windoze user, more likely to leave him happy than precise. and > there's the question of that dd backup, are there approaches you'd say > are quicker or smarter (no handy external disc here)? as for > partitioning, i'm always in favor of leaving the original in place > until the new has actually proven to obviate it. given that he's > already filled 35g of the 60g disc leaving 25g to play with, how much > would you throw to swap? which installers or others would you certify > as reliable for shrinking ntfs? is it best to use winders defrag > first? > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From nesius at gmail.com Sun Apr 29 17:07:07 2012 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 17:07:07 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] what's best? In-Reply-To: <4F9D9A18.7050303@pinenet.com> References: <4F9D9A18.7050303@pinenet.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 2:44 PM, Rick Engebretson wrote: > > > Some youngsters I know thought they were getting into linux with Ubuntu, > and when they needed to fix something we couldn't even log in as root. > > By design. Logging in directly as root is disabled on most modern distros these days. The BKM is to configure a local user with sudo access. Unless you were implying you couldn't even use sudo? -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eng at pinenet.com Sun Apr 29 21:01:17 2012 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 21:01:17 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] what's best? In-Reply-To: References: <4F9D9A18.7050303@pinenet.com> Message-ID: <4F9DF26D.6080406@pinenet.com> The youngsters were a couple of engineers leaving for Silicon Valley in a day or two, so I didn't have a lot of time to figure out Ubuntu. I use the command "su" for xterm root use, and couldn't get root access in any way. I looked on the internet how to edit /etc/fstab with Ubuntu. Just a different system. I can configure SuSE users to have root priviledge. YAST is a very handy tool. In KDE, you can open the file browser as root login, and editors or terminals then open as root. It was disappointing to frustrate those engineers trying to start linux with Ubuntu. Certainly just personal experience. But I would rather spend my time using linux for programming or learning stuff than trying to get it to work. It is worth a look to see how much is available in opensuse. Robert Nesius wrote: > On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 2:44 PM, Rick Engebretson wrote: > >> >> >> Some youngsters I know thought they were getting into linux with Ubuntu, >> and when they needed to fix something we couldn't even log in as root. >> >> > By design. Logging in directly as root is disabled on most modern distros > these days. The BKM is to configure a local user with sudo access. > > Unless you were implying you couldn't even use sudo? > > -Rob > From tclug at freakzilla.com Sun Apr 29 21:46:06 2012 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 21:46:06 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] what's best? In-Reply-To: <4F9DF26D.6080406@pinenet.com> References: <4F9D9A18.7050303@pinenet.com> <4F9DF26D.6080406@pinenet.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Apr 2012, Rick Engebretson wrote: > The youngsters were a couple of engineers leaving for Silicon Valley in a day > or two, so I didn't have a lot of time to figure out Ubuntu. I use the > command "su" for xterm root use, and couldn't get root access in any way. Hi there. Extreme old-timer here, professional UNIX admin for almost 20 years, amateur UNIX user for longer. Logging in as root and the su command have always been a very weak part of UNIX security. Over the past decade or so, with sudo becoming more ubiquitous, root logins have become somewhat deprecated. Even on UNIX-like systems where root/su are still used, there is not one security document that'll not put "install sudo and disable root logins" somewhere near the top. This isn't an Ubuntu thing. It's one of the things where Ubuntu is following current security protocols. -Yaron -- From erikerik at gmail.com Sun Apr 29 22:11:07 2012 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 22:11:07 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] what's best? In-Reply-To: References: <4F9D9A18.7050303@pinenet.com> <4F9DF26D.6080406@pinenet.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 9:46 PM, Yaron wrote: > This isn't an Ubuntu thing. It's one of the things where Ubuntu is following > current security protocols. +1. Couldn't have said it better. Ubuntu has made some bone-headed moves in their history, but their decision to all but disable root was not of them. Unfortunately when I was first cutting my teeth on linux administration, I chose poorly(tm) and frequently signed into all my servers as root. I was very fortunately to never have had a major mishap as a result of this, but that was just pure luck. I've since broken myself of that habit, and use "sudo su -" only when absolutely necessary. When interacting with less experienced linux users (or more experienced ones who are still using a root prompt), this is one thing I'll try really, really hard to embed in their minds. By using a root prompt, you expose yourself to far too many risks and lose out on several very nice benefits that one gains by using sudo. -Erik From jjensen at apache.org Sun Apr 29 22:20:35 2012 From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 22:20:35 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] what's best? In-Reply-To: References: <4F9D9A18.7050303@pinenet.com> <4F9DF26D.6080406@pinenet.com> Message-ID: > > By using a root > prompt, you expose yourself to far too many risks and lose out on > several very nice benefits that one gains by using sudo. What are they? Are this thread's recommendations even for my home servers, or is this more for the shared server environment, a la corporate? On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 10:11 PM, Erik Anderson wrote: > On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 9:46 PM, Yaron wrote: > > This isn't an Ubuntu thing. It's one of the things where Ubuntu is > following > > current security protocols. > > +1. Couldn't have said it better. Ubuntu has made some bone-headed > moves in their history, but their decision to all but disable root was > not of them. > > Unfortunately when I was first cutting my teeth on linux > administration, I chose poorly(tm) and frequently signed into all my > servers as root. I was very fortunately to never have had a major > mishap as a result of this, but that was just pure luck. I've since > broken myself of that habit, and use "sudo su -" only when absolutely > necessary. > > When interacting with less experienced linux users (or more > experienced ones who are still using a root prompt), this is one thing > I'll try really, really hard to embed in their minds. By using a root > prompt, you expose yourself to far too many risks and lose out on > several very nice benefits that one gains by using sudo. > > -Erik > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Sun Apr 29 21:37:41 2012 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 21:37:41 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] what's best? In-Reply-To: <4F9DF26D.6080406@pinenet.com> References: <4F9D9A18.7050303@pinenet.com> <4F9DF26D.6080406@pinenet.com> Message-ID: <1D55E443-2E8C-4DFC-9AE4-7B4138C88479@me.com> That's what Robert said... "The BKM is to configure a local user with sudo access. " FreeBSD has not allowed root user login for as long as I've used it (10 years) which is the reason I broke up with RedHat in 2002. On Apr 29, 2012, at 9:01 PM, Rick Engebretson wrote: > I can configure SuSE users to have root priviledge. YAST is a very handy tool. In KDE, you can open the file browser as root login, and editors or terminals then open as root. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Sun Apr 29 22:42:54 2012 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 22:42:54 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] what's best? In-Reply-To: References: <4F9D9A18.7050303@pinenet.com> <4F9DF26D.6080406@pinenet.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Apr 2012, Jeff Jensen wrote: > What are they? # rm -rf * will just do it. % sudo rm -rf * will at least prompt you and give you a slight chance of noticing what you just did. Using sudo rather than a dedicated root prompt also means that your following commands are not running as root unless you sudo again. It also means you'll never forget a terminal logged in as root! > Are this thread's recommendations even for my home servers, or is this more > for the shared server environment, a la corporate? I would whole-heartedy recommend this for any and all UNIX machines. There's absolutely no reason to be logged in as root. Best example? It's how Mac OS X is set up. Yeah, there's OS X servers, but it's really one of the ultimate home environments. There's REALLY no reason to be logged in as root on a desktop. I'd almost recommend sudo even MORE on a home environemnt. Corporate servers are more likely to have professionals working on them who follow strict protocols. Also they're much more likely to have had a full backup made. -Yaron -- From nesius at gmail.com Sun Apr 29 23:31:43 2012 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 23:31:43 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] what's best? In-Reply-To: References: <4F9D9A18.7050303@pinenet.com> <4F9DF26D.6080406@pinenet.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 10:20 PM, Jeff Jensen wrote: > By using a root >> prompt, you expose yourself to far too many risks and lose out on >> several very nice benefits that one gains by using sudo. > > > What are they? > One of the nicer benefits is that everything is logged. Though, of course, if your logs are on the machine and you get owned and the hacker zaps your log files, that didn't do you much good, which is why it's good to redirect syslog to a hardened log server. But for home use that's a bit overkill, and in small shops too, it's unlikely someone will go to that much effort. > Are this thread's recommendations even for my home servers, or is this > more for the shared server environment, a la corporate? > > Well, I'm usually operating in one of two modes. Generally working on my own stuff, or administering the system. If I'm administering the system, I will actually work off of a root prompt. Sometiems my root sessions use a color for the text that I only ever use in root sessions. So I have a very obvious "You are root" flag in my face as I type. When I'm done I shut them down, but if I'm crawling over log files, configuration files, restarting services, etc... throwing sudo in front of everything is a pain. I would say root shells are okay - but don't leave them laying around. When you're done, shut them down. If you use VNC and someone hijacks your vnc session and you have a root shell open - you just compounded a bad situation. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eng at pinenet.com Sun Apr 29 22:52:53 2012 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 22:52:53 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] what's best? In-Reply-To: References: <4F9D9A18.7050303@pinenet.com> <4F9DF26D.6080406@pinenet.com> Message-ID: <4F9E0C95.5010409@pinenet.com> I appreciate your kind reply. I've been involved with Unix and the internet since before there was Unix and the internet. I don't hang out on my system as root. But I like to completely control the system at times, or just tweak some things. I simply like the vast offerings of opensuse and the use of YAST to maintain it. I got yelled off this group before touting StarOffice, now OpenOffice. Nobody is invading your clubhouse. Probably nobody is using FreePascal (almost Ada), on ICEwm, playing with hardware drivers either. And one of those engineers now makes stuff for Apple, in China, so linux interest is gone there. Maybe mentioning opensuse to prospective users is a fair effort. Yaron wrote: > On Sun, 29 Apr 2012, Rick Engebretson wrote: > >> The youngsters were a couple of engineers leaving for Silicon Valley >> in a day or two, so I didn't have a lot of time to figure out Ubuntu. >> I use the command "su" for xterm root use, and couldn't get root >> access in any way. > > Hi there. Extreme old-timer here, professional UNIX admin for almost 20 > years, amateur UNIX user for longer. > > Logging in as root and the su command have always been a very weak part > of UNIX security. Over the past decade or so, with sudo becoming more > ubiquitous, root logins have become somewhat deprecated. Even on > UNIX-like systems where root/su are still used, there is not one > security document that'll not put "install sudo and disable root logins" > somewhere near the top. > > This isn't an Ubuntu thing. It's one of the things where Ubuntu is > following current security protocols. > > > -Yaron > > -- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From nesius at gmail.com Sun Apr 29 23:42:22 2012 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 23:42:22 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] what's best? In-Reply-To: <4F9E0C95.5010409@pinenet.com> References: <4F9D9A18.7050303@pinenet.com> <4F9DF26D.6080406@pinenet.com> <4F9E0C95.5010409@pinenet.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 10:52 PM, Rick Engebretson wrote: > > > I simply like the vast offerings of opensuse and the use of YAST to > maintain it. I got yelled off this group before touting StarOffice, now > OpenOffice. Nobody is invading your clubhouse. > Suse is a good distro. I spent a lot of time on SLES in my past life. -Rob > Yaron wrote: > >> On Sun, 29 Apr 2012, Rick Engebretson wrote: >> >> The youngsters were a couple of engineers leaving for Silicon Valley >>> in a day or two, so I didn't have a lot of time to figure out Ubuntu. >>> I use the command "su" for xterm root use, and couldn't get root >>> access in any way. >>> >> >> Hi there. Extreme old-timer here, professional UNIX admin for almost 20 >> years, amateur UNIX user for longer. >> >> Logging in as root and the su command have always been a very weak part >> of UNIX security. Over the past decade or so, with sudo becoming more >> ubiquitous, root logins have become somewhat deprecated. Even on >> UNIX-like systems where root/su are still used, there is not one >> security document that'll not put "install sudo and disable root logins" >> somewhere near the top. >> >> This isn't an Ubuntu thing. It's one of the things where Ubuntu is >> following current security protocols. >> >> >> -Yaron >> >> -- >> ______________________________**_________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> ______________________________**_________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kris.browne at gmail.com Sun Apr 29 23:49:58 2012 From: kris.browne at gmail.com (Kristopher Browne) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 23:49:58 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] what's best? In-Reply-To: References: <4F9D9A18.7050303@pinenet.com> <4F9DF26D.6080406@pinenet.com> Message-ID: Also +1. Even with 20+ years of Unix experience, I value the sanity check that living outside of root and using "sudo !!" when necessary gives. The only time I will ever "sudo -s" is to enter a root only directory on the rare occasions it's needed. Kristopher Browne http://www.google.com/profiles/kris.browne On Apr 29, 2012, at 22:11, Erik Anderson wrote: > On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 9:46 PM, Yaron wrote: >> This isn't an Ubuntu thing. It's one of the things where Ubuntu is following >> current security protocols. > > +1. Couldn't have said it better. Ubuntu has made some bone-headed > moves in their history, but their decision to all but disable root was > not of them. > > Unfortunately when I was first cutting my teeth on linux > administration, I chose poorly(tm) and frequently signed into all my > servers as root. I was very fortunately to never have had a major > mishap as a result of this, but that was just pure luck. I've since > broken myself of that habit, and use "sudo su -" only when absolutely > necessary. > > When interacting with less experienced linux users (or more > experienced ones who are still using a root prompt), this is one thing > I'll try really, really hard to embed in their minds. By using a root > prompt, you expose yourself to far too many risks and lose out on > several very nice benefits that one gains by using sudo. > > -Erik > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Apr 30 01:38:23 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 01:38:23 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 12.04: unable to install GRUB in /dev/sda Message-ID: To me this seems like a very common situation these days, so I'm not sure why I can't find a very straightforward answer on how to proceed. I also don't know why the Ubuntu installer can't navigate this situation automagically. I'm installing a RAID1 with two 3TB drives, almost all of the volume is in the first partition, /, and about 35 GB is swap. I tried to use cfdisk to partition the disks, but that did not work because they are larger than 2TB. So I used parted, then gparted to make the partitions "raid" type, then mdadm, and it all looked good. I did all that from the Ubuntu 12.04 live CD (but had to install mdadm). I had to do that because the 2TB limit for fdisk is because of DOS label, and to get beyond that I had to use the GPT label. Next I went to the Ubuntu 12.04 Alternate CD (both CDs were AMD 64) and did the installation into the / partition, using ext4. That went great up until near the last step when it tried to install GRUB in the Master Boot Record (MBR). That step failed, returning this message: Unable to install GRUB in /dev/sda Executing 'grub-install /dev/sda' failed This is a fatal error. Everything was being installed to /dev/md0 (/) and /dev/md1 was swap. Apparently, GPT is an alternative to MBR, so that could have something to do with grub-install failing to install GRUB to the MBR. (Ya think?). So I'm not even sure of why I tried, but I didn't know what else to do at 5 am yesterday morning after fighting with this thing all last night! Now I'm back at it. I decided to continue the Ubuntu installation after the failed step. I see this message: "No boot loader has been installed, either because you chose not to or because your specific architecture doesn't support a boot loader yet. "You will need to boot manually with the /vmlinuz kernel on partition /dev/md0 and root=/dev/md0 passed as a kernel argument." That to me is completely incomprehensible. Do they mean that I should boot from a USB or CD? Then do what, exactly? Google gives so much that's just all over the map that I don't know what to do with it. If I run the Live CD, I can't see the /dev/md0 or /dev/md1 RAID1 partitions and if I run the Alternate CD, which handles RAID, it doesn't have the Live CD feature. I hope one of you will have an idea. Thanks. Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Apr 30 01:51:24 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 01:51:24 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] what's best? In-Reply-To: References: <4F9D9A18.7050303@pinenet.com> <4F9DF26D.6080406@pinenet.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Apr 2012, Erik Anderson wrote: > On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 9:46 PM, Yaron wrote: > >> This isn't an Ubuntu thing. It's one of the things where Ubuntu is >> following current security protocols. > > +1. Couldn't have said it better. Ubuntu has made some bone-headed moves > in their history, but their decision to all but disable root was not of > them. I also like the sudo idea, but I see one shortcoming -- most people use their own password to gain root permissions via sudo, but that means if someone gets their password, they can access not just their data, but they can completely own the system. It seems like it would be safer to use one password to login and a different password for sudo. I assume that can be done, but I haven't done it, and I'm not sure of how to do it. Mike From erikerik at gmail.com Mon Apr 30 03:24:29 2012 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 03:24:29 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] what's best? In-Reply-To: References: <4F9D9A18.7050303@pinenet.com> <4F9DF26D.6080406@pinenet.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 10:20 PM, Jeff Jensen wrote: > What are they? Well, looks like this has been discussed already by others, but: 1. keep "open" root prompts from laying around 2. another layer of authentication to prevent: a. you from shooting yourself in the foot b. an attacker from getting full root privileges 3. Logging of all commands executed > Are this thread's recommendations even for my home servers, or is this more > for the shared server environment, a la corporate? Well, both actually. I'm a big proponent of using the same practices no matter what system I'm working on. You're far more likely to do things like use sudo consistently if you do it globally, both on work systems as well as personally. -Erik From erikerik at gmail.com Mon Apr 30 03:30:32 2012 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 03:30:32 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] what's best? In-Reply-To: References: <4F9D9A18.7050303@pinenet.com> <4F9DF26D.6080406@pinenet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 1:51 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > I also like the sudo idea, but I see one shortcoming -- most people use > their own password to gain root permissions via sudo, but that means if > someone gets their password, they can access not just their data, but they > can completely own the system. ?It seems like it would be safer to use one > password to login and a different password for sudo. ?I assume that can be > done, but I haven't done it, and I'm not sure of how to do it. Well, this applies mostly to connecting to a host via ssh, but you turn off PasswordAuthentication and authenticate instead with a keypair, where the private key is encrypted with a different passphrase than then one that is hashed in the remote system's /etc/shadow. I find it quite funny that so many people grouse (I'm speaking generally here, not trying to infer that you have anything against this) about turning off PasswordAuthentication when in reality, PKA is far easier to use and is far more secure once it's set up. Yes, there are a few steps one has to go through and a few incantations to say to get the keys generated, get 'em in the right place, and ensure that ownership/permissions are set correctly, but once that's done, Bob's yer uncle. -Erik From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Mon Apr 30 05:28:17 2012 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 05:28:17 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] what's reliable for shrinking ntfs? Message-ID: > my friend reid has had enough registry trouble with his XP laptop that > he is finally coming to me wanting help to install linux. now i'm the > sort who installs precise from the core tar.gz (why bother buy & burn > blanks? why annoy myself with installers?), so i'm thinking grab > whatever live CD may be lying around, backup XP with dd > if=partition|ssh dd, shrink that XP partition, plunk in precise core, > apt-get willy nilly, including virtualbox for his must-have XP > programs. but wait, i dunno that just any live CD can be relied upon > to shrink ntfs. this is where i'd like to hear your experiences. if > we must burn something, of course there are a million answers, but in > your opinion, what's best? i tend to be attracted to LTS knowing i > won't be forced to install again all too soon, but i feel the tempting > pull of the notion that mint may be more suited to an inveterate > windoze user, more likely to leave him happy than precise. and > there's the question of that dd backup, are there approaches you'd say > are quicker or smarter (no handy external disc here)? as for > partitioning, i'm always in favor of leaving the original in place > until the new has actually proven to obviate it. given that he's > already filled 35g of the 60g disc leaving 25g to play with, how much > would you throw to swap? which installers or others would you certify as reliable for shrinking ntfs? is it best to use winders defrag first? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From justin.kremer at gmail.com Mon Apr 30 07:36:36 2012 From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 07:36:36 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] what's reliable for shrinking ntfs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 5:28 AM, gregrwm wrote: > > which installers or others would you certify as reliable for shrinking ntfs? > ?is it best to use winders defrag first? That thread got a bit off-topic, didn't it? Really, it's not a matter of which installer is reliable for shrinking ntfs, but which tool. I have always found that gparted has been intuitive and has worked wonderfully. It is just a GUI for parted, but parted is less than intuitive for a lot of tasks. I can tell you that gparted is included on any Ubuntu or Linux Mint live CD I have used. When you ask about Windows defrag, that's a good question. The thing I find it asks of me most often is to reboot and run Windows Scandisk. So do that first, and you won't have to do those extra couple reboots. Despite the reliability, they still recommend backing up any important data when performing a task that fiddles with partitions, but thankfully I have never needed my backup after that. - Justin From dave at sherohman.org Mon Apr 30 08:08:59 2012 From: dave at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 08:08:59 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] [Fairly OT] Visiting YAPC::NA Message-ID: <20120430130859.GJ2972@sherohman.org> Howdy, all! Hopefully this won't seem overly off-topic, but the Minneapolis Perl Mongers list seems to be dead (the archive shows no messages more recent than August, 2011) and I was never active with them anyhow. But I was a TCLUG regular once upon a time and never bothered to leave the list, even though I've been living (and working as a Perl/Linux geek) in Sweden for the last few years. When I saw that this year's YAPC::NA would be in Madison, I managed to convince my boss to send me over and, if I want to stay in the US a bit past the end of the conference, that's no big deal. So now I'm wondering if anyone from TCLUG might be planning to attend and perhaps have room for a passenger back to Minneapolis afterward. I can offer gas money, but won't be able to do any driving as I no longer have a valid license (my MN license has expired and, with no car here, I haven't had any reason to get a Swedish license). I've set Reply-To: to direct responses to me off-list due to OT-ness. Honor or ignore the Reply-To: at your discretion. -- Dave Sherohman From nesius at gmail.com Mon Apr 30 09:44:27 2012 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 09:44:27 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] what's best? In-Reply-To: References: <4F9D9A18.7050303@pinenet.com> <4F9DF26D.6080406@pinenet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 3:30 AM, Erik Anderson wrote: > On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 1:51 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > > I also like the sudo idea, but I see one shortcoming -- most people use > > their own password to gain root permissions via sudo > > Well, this applies mostly to connecting to a host via ssh, I don't think modern distros, unix included, ship with telnet and naked rsh enabled anymore, do they? > but you > turn off PasswordAuthentication and authenticate instead with a > keypair, where the private key is encrypted with a different > passphrase than then one that is hashed in the remote system's > /etc/shadow. > > I find it quite funny that so many people grouse (I'm speaking > generally here, not trying to infer that you have anything against > this) about turning off PasswordAuthentication when in reality, PKA is > far easier to use and is far more secure once it's set up Once it's set up it's the best of both worlds - secure and convenient. I hadn't though about going one step further and disabling password auths via ssh. I like the idea though - any system I'd need to possibly to get on under "desparate circumstances" where ssh isn't viable, I can do it on the console. Thanks for sharing! -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Apr 30 09:58:07 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 09:58:07 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] what's best? In-Reply-To: References: <4F9D9A18.7050303@pinenet.com> <4F9DF26D.6080406@pinenet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Apr 2012, Erik Anderson wrote: > On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 1:51 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > >> I also like the sudo idea, but I see one shortcoming -- most people use >> their own password to gain root permissions via sudo, but that means if >> someone gets their password, they can access not just their data, but >> they can completely own the system. ?It seems like it would be safer to >> use one password to login and a different password for sudo. ?I assume >> that can be done, but I haven't done it, and I'm not sure of how to do >> it. > > Well, this applies mostly to connecting to a host via ssh, but you turn > off PasswordAuthentication and authenticate instead with a keypair, > where the private key is encrypted with a different passphrase than then > one that is hashed in the remote system's /etc/shadow. > > I find it quite funny that so many people grouse (I'm speaking generally > here, not trying to infer that you have anything against this) about > turning off PasswordAuthentication when in reality, PKA is far easier to > use and is far more secure once it's set up. Yes, there are a few steps > one has to go through and a few incantations to say to get the keys > generated, get 'em in the right place, and ensure that > ownership/permissions are set correctly, but once that's done, Bob's yer > uncle. I don't fully understand this, but I think it is a valuable idea that I should know more about. It's one of those things that I've been wanting to get into for years but haven't gotten around to, yet. One question: If I have several Linux servers that I regularly log into via ssh, almost always from other Linux servers, if I use PKA to log into these machines, doesn't that mean that if someone manages to get into one machine, he'll be immediately able to get into all of them? And would he also be able to acces enough information to connect again from other locations? I get your idea -- anyone connecting using the keys wouldn't be able to use sudo unless he knew the sudo password. That's good, but can't that also be accomplished by having a sudo password that is different from the user password? (Which is what I was asking about above.) I have a different user password on every machine I log into, and I could easily also have a different sudo password, too. Mike From nesius at gmail.com Mon Apr 30 10:16:15 2012 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 10:16:15 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] what's best? In-Reply-To: References: <4F9D9A18.7050303@pinenet.com> <4F9DF26D.6080406@pinenet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Mon, 30 Apr 2012, Erik Anderson wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 1:51 AM, Mike Miller >> wrote: >> >> I also like the sudo idea, but I see one shortcoming -- most people use >>> their own password to gain root permissions via sudo, but that means if >>> someone gets their password, they can access not just their data, but they >>> can completely own the system. It seems like it would be safer to use one >>> password to login and a different password for sudo. I assume that can be >>> done, but I haven't done it, and I'm not sure of how to do it. >>> >> >> Well, this applies mostly to connecting to a host via ssh, but you turn >> off PasswordAuthentication and authenticate instead with a keypair, where >> the private key is encrypted with a different passphrase than then one that >> is hashed in the remote system's /etc/shadow. >> >> I find it quite funny that so many people grouse (I'm speaking generally >> here, not trying to infer that you have anything against this) about >> turning off PasswordAuthentication when in reality, PKA is far easier to >> use and is far more secure once it's set up. Yes, there are a few steps one >> has to go through and a few incantations to say to get the keys generated, >> get 'em in the right place, and ensure that ownership/permissions are set >> correctly, but once that's done, Bob's yer uncle. >> > > I don't fully understand this, but I think it is a valuable idea that I > should know more about. It's one of those things that I've been wanting to > get into for years but haven't gotten around to, yet. > > One question: If I have several Linux servers that I regularly log into > via ssh, almost always from other Linux servers, if I use PKA to log into > these machines, doesn't that mean that if someone manages to get into one > machine, he'll be immediately able to get into all of them? And would he > also be able to acces enough information to connect again from other > locations? > Yes. Maybe. It depends if your keys have passwords or not, if they have the same password, and if you have ssh-agent running, or auto-initiated. At the end of the day, if someone gets a shell/desktop session as you, security is only as good as it works against yourself. Any concessions to convenience you've made are now working against you. > I get your idea -- anyone connecting using the keys wouldn't be able to > use sudo unless he knew the sudo password. That's good, but can't that > also be accomplished by having a sudo password that is different from the > user password? (Which is what I was asking about above.) I have a > different user password on every machine I log into, and I could easily > also have a different sudo password, too. I've never seen the sudo password different from the user's system password. I did some google searches and saw one mechanism for doing it, which I found interesting. Are you directing sudo to target another user to facillitate authentications? Doesn't that mean everyone using sudo on the system is using the same account for authentication? I'm curious to know more about what you're doing here. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Apr 30 10:59:19 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 10:59:19 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] what's best? In-Reply-To: References: <4F9D9A18.7050303@pinenet.com> <4F9DF26D.6080406@pinenet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Apr 2012, Robert Nesius wrote: > On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > >> I get your idea -- anyone connecting using the keys wouldn't be able to >> use sudo unless he knew the sudo password. That's good, but can't that >> also be accomplished by having a sudo password that is different from >> the user password? (Which is what I was asking about above.) I have a >> different user password on every machine I log into, and I could easily >> also have a different sudo password, too. > > > I've never seen the sudo password different from the user's system > password. I did some google searches and saw one mechanism for doing > it, which I found interesting. Are you directing sudo to target another > user to facillitate authentications? Doesn't that mean everyone using > sudo on the system is using the same account for authentication? I'm > curious to know more about what you're doing here. I haven't done it. I just thought it was possible to have a different sudo password than user password, just like one may have a different root password than user password. I don't know what the possibilities are -- for example, can every user with sudo permissions have a different sudo password that is also different from their user password? I don't know. On systems where I can sudo to get root permissions, I am always the only one who may do so, so I haven't looked into what happens with multiple sudo'ing users. Mike From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Mon Apr 30 11:55:19 2012 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 11:55:19 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 12.04: unable to install GRUB in /dev/sda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I'm installing a RAID1 with two 3TB drives, almost all of the volume is in the first partition, /, and about 35 GB is swap. ?I tried to use cfdisk to partition the disks, but that did not work because they are larger than 2TB. ?So I used parted, then gparted to make the partitions "raid" type, then mdadm, and it all looked good. ?I did all that from the Ubuntu 12.04 live CD (but had to install mdadm). ?I had to do that because the 2TB limit for fdisk is because of DOS label, and to get beyond that I had to use the GPT label. > > Next I went to the Ubuntu 12.04 Alternate CD (both CDs were AMD 64) and did the installation into the / partition, using ext4. ?That went great up until near the last step when it tried to install GRUB in the Master Boot Record (MBR). ?That step failed, returning this message: > > Unable to install GRUB in /dev/sda > Executing 'grub-install /dev/sda' failed > This is a fatal error. > > Everything was being installed to /dev/md0 (/) and /dev/md1 was swap. > > Apparently, GPT is an alternative to MBR, so that could have something to do with grub-install failing to install GRUB to the MBR. ?(Ya think?). So I'm not even sure of why I tried, but I didn't know what else to do at 5 am yesterday morning after fighting with this thing all last night! Now I'm back at it. ?I decided to continue the Ubuntu installation after the failed step. ?I see this message: > > "No boot loader has been installed, either because you chose not to or because your specific architecture doesn't support a boot loader yet. > > "You will need to boot manually with the /vmlinuz kernel on partition /dev/md0 and root=/dev/md0 passed as a kernel argument." > > That to me is completely incomprehensible. ?Do they mean that I should boot from a USB or CD? ?Then do what, exactly? ?Google gives so much that's just all over the map that I don't know what to do with it. > > If I run the Live CD, I can't see the /dev/md0 or /dev/md1 RAID1 partitions and if I run the Alternate CD, which handles RAID, it doesn't have the Live CD feature. m- sorry no experience with discs that big, but i'll offer my thoughts in case it helps. ?perhaps "grub-pc" ("grub2") just won't do it. ?i'd try "grub" next. ?if you need further options, then try lilo, then syslinux. ?but how do you "try" them? ?does that installer support "legacy grub"? ?probably not, or i would think you would have seen it as an option. ?it may be easiest to choose an installer (and the distro that goes with it) that supports your hardware. ?perhaps debian, perhaps centos, perhaps fedora, perhaps opensuse. ?or if you would rather stick with ubuntu, it may be easier to skip using an installer entirely, just prepare your raid, mkfs, unpack the core tar.gz, chroot into it, apt-get install grub (legacy), see if it boots, and apt-get install whatever else you want, eg whatever-desktop. ?all easy if the liveCD kernel supports your raid. ?if not you may need to install to a temporary small nonraid partition just to perform the rest of the manual install (then later reuse the temporary partition as part of raid swap or whatever). ?see help.ubuntu.com/12.04/installation-guide/amd64/linux-upgrade.html -g From nesius at gmail.com Mon Apr 30 12:03:05 2012 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 12:03:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] what's best? In-Reply-To: References: <4F9D9A18.7050303@pinenet.com> <4F9DF26D.6080406@pinenet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Mon, 30 Apr 2012, Robert Nesius wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Mike Miller >> wrote: >> >> I get your idea -- anyone connecting using the keys wouldn't be able to >>> use sudo unless he knew the sudo password. That's good, but can't that >>> also be accomplished by having a sudo password that is different from the >>> user password? (Which is what I was asking about above.) I have a >>> different user password on every machine I log into, and I could easily >>> also have a different sudo password, too. >>> >> >> >> I've never seen the sudo password different from the user's system >> password. I did some google searches and saw one mechanism for doing it, >> which I found interesting. Are you directing sudo to target another user >> to facillitate authentications? Doesn't that mean everyone using sudo on >> the system is using the same account for authentication? I'm curious to >> know more about what you're doing here. >> > > I haven't done it. I just thought it was possible to have a different > sudo password than user password, just like one may have a different root > password than user password. I don't know what the possibilities are -- > for example, can every user with sudo permissions have a different sudo > password that is also different from their user password? I don't know. > With sudo, the user is proving to sudo that the user is the user, and is doing it by using the user's password. If you configure sudo to use PAM, this can be extra slick in large environments where you're sourcing identity from single-sign-on sources (ldap, AD, etc..). Then sudo doesn't have to know anything about how you're sourcing identity and performing auths - it just asks PAM to authenticate you and the magic happens. I did see a way to tell sudo to use a "target account". Which is to say when User X wants to escalate privs, authenticate against User Y. It wasn't clear to me if all users would effectively have to know that target password. > On systems where I can sudo to get root permissions, I am always the only > one who may do so, so I haven't looked into what happens with multiple > sudo'ing users. > I've had to deal with large sudoers files before. Not fun. Not sure I'd want to add maintaining a whole new auth system with it too. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at lctn.org Mon Apr 30 12:45:35 2012 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 12:45:35 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] terminating cat with specified time Message-ID: <4F9ECFBF.8000601@lctn.org> I am using cat to capture video from VHS tapes, saving the files as mpegs and don't want to baby sit things. How can I launch cat with a predetermined ending time without having to use cron? From tonyyarusso at gmail.com Mon Apr 30 12:55:31 2012 From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 12:55:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] terminating cat with specified time In-Reply-To: <4F9ECFBF.8000601@lctn.org> References: <4F9ECFBF.8000601@lctn.org> Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 12:45, Raymond Norton wrote: > I am using cat to capture video from VHS tapes, saving the files as mpegs > ?and don't want to baby sit things. How can I launch cat with a > predetermined ending time without having to use cron? For a single-use situation, at would be more appropriate than cron. You could also use sleep to run kill at the right time. - Tony From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Mon Apr 30 13:18:05 2012 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 13:18:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] terminating cat with specified time In-Reply-To: <4F9ECFBF.8000601@lctn.org> References: <4F9ECFBF.8000601@lctn.org> Message-ID: > I am using cat to capture video from VHS tapes, saving the files as mpegs > ?and don't want to baby sit things. How can I launch cat with a > predetermined ending time without having to use cron? cat & catpid=$! sleep 3600 kill $catpid From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Mon Apr 30 13:26:58 2012 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 13:26:58 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] terminating cat with specified time In-Reply-To: References: <4F9ECFBF.8000601@lctn.org> Message-ID: >> I am using cat to capture video from VHS tapes, saving the files as mpegs >> ?and don't want to baby sit things. How can I launch cat with a >> predetermined ending time without having to use cron? > > cat & > catpid=$! > sleep 3600 > kill $catpid process ids do get recycled, so that could bite eventually, safer to key on the job#, not sure how to fetch the job# of a job you just launched, unless it's a fresh (sub)shell and therefore %1: (cat & sleep 3600 kill %1) From max at bernsteinforpresident.com Mon Apr 30 13:34:00 2012 From: max at bernsteinforpresident.com (Max Shinn) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 13:34:00 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dazzle DVC170 on ubuntu In-Reply-To: <4F9D72E1.3090806@lctn.org> References: <4F9D72E1.3090806@lctn.org> Message-ID: <20120430133400.47181564@Newton> On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 11:57:05 -0500 Raymond Norton wrote: > I have a Dazzle DVC170 I would like to get running on Mint > ( oneiric). I have run across some old conversations about trying to > get it to run on older versions of Ubuntu, but nothing new. Anyone > know if progress has been made, or of a good howto? The device is USB. Based on your most recent message to the list, I'm assuming you made some progress? Did you figure anything out? I was having problems with this device several years ago and eventually gave up. From admin at lctn.org Mon Apr 30 14:14:26 2012 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 14:14:26 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Dazzle DVC170 on ubuntu In-Reply-To: <20120430133400.47181564@Newton> References: <4F9D72E1.3090806@lctn.org> <20120430133400.47181564@Newton> Message-ID: <4F9EE492.5000301@lctn.org> > > Based on your most recent message to the list, I'm assuming you made > some progress? Did you figure anything out? I was having problems > with this device several years ago and eventually gave up. > I wish... I finally opened the unit up and found the following: It has 3 main chips: ISSI IS42S32200C1-6TL RKT2540001 0613 MICRONAS G070075B UABG01 HJ5C7-00M 03302006 (No maker listed) CY7C68013A 100AXC 0613 B 04 626114 Found someone on another list that knew a lot about the Dazzle. Turns out the newer chips in my 170 are not supported very well, but the older units are supposed to work pnp. I managed to get my HVR-1950 to work with ivtv-utils and cat. That unit is part of my mythtv setup and I don't really want to mess with it, so I just ordered a Hauppauge WinTV-PVR-USB2 29032 Rev D158 off of ebay, which is supposed to also work well with Linux. From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Apr 30 14:29:53 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 14:29:53 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 12.04: unable to install GRUB in /dev/sda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Apr 2012, gregrwm wrote: > sorry no experience with discs that big, but i'll offer my thoughts in > case it helps. ?perhaps "grub-pc" ("grub2") just won't do it. ?i'd try > "grub" next. ?if you need further options, then try lilo, then syslinux. > but how do you "try" them? ?does that installer support "legacy grub"? > probably not, or i would think you would have seen it as an option. ?it > may be easiest to choose an installer (and the distro that goes with it) > that supports your hardware. ?perhaps debian, perhaps centos, perhaps > fedora, perhaps opensuse. ?or if you would rather stick with ubuntu, it > may be easier to skip using an installer entirely, just prepare your > raid, mkfs, unpack the core tar.gz, chroot into it, apt-get install grub > (legacy), see if it boots, and apt-get install whatever else you want, > eg whatever-desktop. ?all easy if the liveCD kernel supports your raid. > if not you may need to install to a temporary small nonraid partition > just to perform the rest of the manual install (then later reuse the > temporary partition as part of raid swap or whatever). ?see > help.ubuntu.com/12.04/installation-guide/amd64/linux-upgrade.html Thanks for trying to help. Unfortunately, you don't have any suggestions that would work for me because they seem to require a higher level of technical knowledge than I have. For example, "try lilo, then syslinux" was one suggestion, but I don't know how to do that, so I would have to spend a bunch of time finding out how to do it, then time doing it, then it probably won't work, or at least you don't seem to have any confidence in it. At another point you give a long list of steps that I mostly don't understand such as "unpack the core tar.gz" -- which I get from where? -- and end with "all easy if the liveCD kernel supports your raid," but the Live CD does not work with the RAID, which is one of my problems. But I really am grateful for your effort and you did give me a few ideas. One problem I've had though, is that when I google for solutions, I get a lot of what are essentially clues but without answers. >From this list I did get one off-list reply that seems like a really good lead. The person claimed that I need to create a /boot partition with ee type and that I can use GPTfdisk. Apparently, GPTfdisk is in the Ubuntu package gdisk. So maybe I can go back to the old RAID1 instructions that B-o-B and I put together and just use GPTfdisk instead of fdisk, but with a /boot partition of maybe 10MB, and then Ubuntu will install GRUB automatically. I'm going to guess it will work. I'll let you all know. Also, if that works, it would probably mean that I could have done my installation back in October even more easily if I had only made a /boot partition of the right type (ee). I've been going without the /boot partition and just using /. Mike From erikerik at gmail.com Mon Apr 30 14:39:20 2012 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 14:39:20 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] what's best? In-Reply-To: References: <4F9D9A18.7050303@pinenet.com> <4F9DF26D.6080406@pinenet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > I don't fully understand this, but I think it is a valuable idea that I > should know more about. ?It's one of those things that I've been wanting to > get into for years but haven't gotten around to, yet. Absolutely - it's 100% worth your time to figure out. > One question: ?If I have several Linux servers that I regularly log into via > ssh, almost always from other Linux servers, if I use PKA to log into these > machines, doesn't that mean that if someone manages to get into one machine, > he'll be immediately able to get into all of them? ?And would he also be > able to acces enough information to connect again from other locations? Nope - that's the beauty of public key cryptography. When you create a keypair, ssh-keygen generates a public key and a private key. These two keys are cryptographically-related. When you generate the keypair, you can optionally encrypt the private key with a passphrase - I'd highly recommend you do this. The private key is your identity, and the key itself should never leave the machine it was generated on, nor should it be shared with anyone. The reason it's best to encrypt the private key is that if the key ever falls into the wrong hands, it'll be relatively useless unless they manage to brute-force your encryption passphrase. Anyway, the private key stays on your workstation and only the public key gets put out onto the remote server. The public key is *completely* public - it is impossible to derive the private key from the public key, so feel free to email the public key to people, get it tattooed on your arm, etc. :) So to answer your question directly, if a remote system is compromised, the most they can do is get your public key, which they can't do anything with. An attacker would need to get at your *private* key to do anything. > I get your idea -- anyone connecting using the keys wouldn't be able to use > sudo unless he knew the sudo password. ?That's good, but can't that also be > accomplished by having a sudo password that is different from the user > password? ?(Which is what I was asking about above.) ?I have a different > user password on every machine I log into, and I could easily also have a > different sudo password, too. While it's probably possible to do this, I've never actually seen it used. Anywhere. Implementing PKA and choosing a strong "local" password on the box is sufficient. -Erik From florin at iucha.net Mon Apr 30 20:40:09 2012 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 20:40:09 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] terminating cat with specified time In-Reply-To: <4F9ECFBF.8000601@lctn.org> References: <4F9ECFBF.8000601@lctn.org> Message-ID: <20120501014009.GP2363@styx.iucha.org> On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 12:45:35PM -0500, Raymond Norton wrote: > I am using cat to capture video from VHS tapes, saving the files as > mpegs and don't want to baby sit things. How can I launch cat with a > predetermined ending time without having to use cron? Can you convert time into space (bytes) and use dd instead of cat? Cheers, florin -- Beware of software written by optimists! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gsker at skerbitz.org Mon Apr 30 21:19:57 2012 From: gsker at skerbitz.org (Gerry) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:19:57 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 12.04: unable to install GRUB in /dev/sda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Apr 2012, gregrwm wrote: On ? Mike Miller Wrote: >> Unable to install GRUB in /dev/sda >> Executing 'grub-install /dev/sda' failed >> This is a fatal error. >> >> Everything was being installed to /dev/md0 (/) and /dev/md1 was swap. >> >> Apparently, GPT is an alternative to MBR, so that could have something to do with grub-install failing to install GRUB to the MBR. ?(Ya think?). So I'm not even sure of why I tried, but I didn't know what else to do at 5 am yesterday morning after fighting with this thing all last night! Now I'm back at it. ?I decided to continue the Ubuntu installation after the failed step. ?I see this message: >> >> "No boot loader has been installed, either because you chose not to or because your specific architecture doesn't support a boot loader yet. >> >> "You will need to boot manually with the /vmlinuz kernel on partition /dev/md0 and root=/dev/md0 passed as a kernel argument." I haven't done this before, but I have read about the need to install grub on the disks and not the mirror. http://www.ogalik.ee/installing-grub-on-md-raid-boot-device/ So, you just use a rescue disk to install grub on both real disks. Not on the RAID. You might be able to test this using a grub boot disk (usb stick or CD) Other thoughts along the same line: http://www.spinics.net/linux/fedora/fedora-users/msg412422.html http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/RAID/NVRAID_with_dmraid#Installing_GRUB http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/SoftwareRAIDonCentOS5 -- Gerry Skerbitz gsker at skerbitz.org From ryanjcole at me.com Mon Apr 30 21:50:59 2012 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:50:59 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Rebuilding my VM server - spec questions Message-ID: I have a Dell server rebranded by CSC's FTL group that is currently running 4x250G drives. I want to replace each of those 250G drives with 2TB drives which should last us a while until the big corporation in the sky sees fit to either purchase us a NAS or SAN (which we are operating under the presumption will never happen). So I have 4 bays. the first 250GB presently is the install drive for the VM software. The other three are running a RAID5 to give me a stable 500GB of storage... I'm looking for options here on what to do for my splitting or should I use the whole thing? TIA, Ryan From andyzib at gmail.com Mon Apr 30 22:40:33 2012 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 22:40:33 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Rebuilding my VM server - spec questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Do you really need 250 GB for the VM Hypervisor? VMWare ESX will boot off a USB flash drive. If you're using Linux KVM you would ideally want to have a minimalistic install anyway. A good Linux console only live distro doesn't even fill a single 700 MB CD. Unless you're doing something else on your VM host I would give it a small system partition. Limited space keeps temptation at bay. Personally I like things as simple as possible and would most likely just do one big volume. If you wanted to future proof the installation you could setup LVM so you can easily add disks/storage to your server down the road (via external array, JBOD enclosure, NAS, SAN, whatever), but my experience has been that we end up justifying the new servers and storage and end up doing new installs on the new hardware anyway, so the benefits of LVM don't end up justifying the extra complexity. YMMV of course. -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com From ryanjcole at me.com Mon Apr 30 23:16:45 2012 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 23:16:45 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Rebuilding my VM server - spec questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2EF4133A-2613-414B-8AD1-2F256B43788B@me.com> That's the current system. I am getting rid of that; I have a datastore on that drive as well as the 500GB RAID. But thanks for reading my OP. Please read it back over and answer... Sorry to be a dick but I hate it when people don't actually read what I wrote. Since you didn't quote any of it I'm including it here for your reading pleasure: > I have a Dell server rebranded by CSC's FTL group that is currently running 4x250G drives. > > I want to replace each of those 250G drives with 2TB drives which should last us a while until the big corporation in the sky sees fit to either purchase us a NAS or SAN (which we are operating under the presumption will never happen). > > So I have 4 bays. the first 250GB presently is the install drive for the VM software. The other three are running a RAID5 to give me a stable 500GB of storage... > > I'm looking for options here on what to do for my splitting or should I use the whole thing? > > TIA, > Ryan On Apr 30, 2012, at 10:40 PM, Andrew S. Zbikowski wrote: > Do you really need 250 GB for the VM Hypervisor? VMWare ESX will boot > off a USB flash drive. If you're using Linux KVM you would ideally > want to have a minimalistic install anyway. A good Linux console only > live distro doesn't even fill a single 700 MB CD. Unless you're doing > something else on your VM host I would give it a small system > partition. Limited space keeps temptation at bay. > > Personally I like things as simple as possible and would most likely > just do one big volume. If you wanted to future proof the installation > you could setup LVM so you can easily add disks/storage to your server > down the road (via external array, JBOD enclosure, NAS, SAN, > whatever), but my experience has been that we end up justifying the > new servers and storage and end up doing new installs on the new > hardware anyway, so the benefits of LVM don't end up justifying the > extra complexity. YMMV of course. > > -- > Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us > IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list