From jpschewe at mtu.net Sun May 1 16:09:09 2011 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Sun, 01 May 2011 16:09:09 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Xen upgrade question Message-ID: <4DBDCBF5.20302@mtu.net> I'm going to be upgrading my Xen dom0 and it's domUs and want to make sure that I don't do this in the wrong order. Right now my domUs that are paravirtualized are using xen 3.1 and so is my dom0. I'm going to be upgrading to xen 4.0.2. Do I need to upgrade the dom0 first or the domU? Which way are things backwards compatible? I've done some searching this afternoon and haven't been able to find a definitive answer. You'd think it'd be right on the xen website stating which versions are compatible. Jon From bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com Tue May 3 10:21:01 2011 From: bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com (Andrew Berg) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 10:21:01 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] What browser do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DC01D5D.2000401@gmail.com> For anyone wanting to go to Firefox 4, but not liking the UI overhaul, I recommend the following extensions: Firefox 4 UI Fixer - Allows movement of the menu bar (I can't move into the Customize window to get rid of it entirely, but I moved it to my bookmarks toolbar, which I always keep hidden), adds the Firefox menu as a button (so you can have the standard title window /and/ the Fx menu), and makes status bar icons movable. Status-4-Evar - provides a place for items that use the old status bar and don't have buttons. Toolbar Buttons - Tons of buttons that let you have common functions available in a toolbar or the add-on bar. Firefox 4 still has UI issues (font rendering being the biggest), but the speed increase is well worth the switch. From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed May 4 16:50:34 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 16:50:34 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 11.04 released ... anyone tried on laptop? In-Reply-To: References: <004e01cc05cb$4ff72a40$efe57ec0$@net> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Apr 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > On Thu, 28 Apr 2011, Randy Clarksean wrote: > >> I have a laptop that I use for critical work functions. >> >> Anyone upgraded to 11.04 yet? I want to hold off as I cannot afford an >> upgrade that then leaves me with issues to fix. If anyone has >> experiences to share as they do the upgrade on a laptop I would love to >> hear about it. > > > I use an Asus netbook. I ran Ubuntu Netbook Remix at first, then with > 10.10 I was a bit disappointed at the loss of some familiar > functionality. I hear that 11.04 will be better. I am doing it now and > I'll post later to say what I think of the outcome. It will take me awhile to find all of the things I love and hate about the new environment, but I can give you two hates right now! ;-) First, I was used to the Unity-style interface because that's what Ubuntu gave me on my netbook with 10.10. The newer version looks a little nicer, but the program I use most of all did not work: The icon for the gnome-terminal is there as before, but nothing happens when I click on it. To get a terminal window, I had to open Nautilus and find the executable, which was in /usr/bin/, I think, and click on its icon. That was very annoying, but the next problem was that I couldn't figure out how to change the path to gnome-terminal in the Unity menu system -- it must be specified incorrectly somewhere because the icon doesn't run the program, but the program exists in /usr/bin. It would be nice if a right-click on the icon allowed the user to edit what it does. Second, the task "Launcher" on the left side of the screen behaves quite badly when there is an open window near that side of the screen. It tends to jump in and out making it very difficult to click on an icon. Another thing: The scroll bars work in a new way that I find very bothersome right now. Maybe I'll learn to like it. I'll give it a chance. Does anyone know how I can fix the problem with the gnome-terminal setting in the Launcher? I don't mind using xterm. I think the problem might be that the path to gnome-terminal is not specified, and the system path does not include /usr/bin when Unity starts up. I'm looking at this file: ~/.local/share/applications/gnome-terminal.desktop Mike From eric.schultz at mchsi.com Wed May 4 18:02:04 2011 From: eric.schultz at mchsi.com (Eric Schultz) Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 18:02:04 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 11.04 released ... anyone tried on laptop? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <131811232.3650471304550124195.JavaMail.root@dsmdc-mail-mbs12> Hi Mike, I have updated to 11.04 on a dell 1501. I had to redo my wireless drivers, minor hick up...but it works fine. It is purely an internet machine, and I do use open Office for report writing, but I don't do any programming. Eric ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Miller" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2011 4:50:34 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 11.04 released ... anyone tried on laptop? On Thu, 28 Apr 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > On Thu, 28 Apr 2011, Randy Clarksean wrote: > >> I have a laptop that I use for critical work functions. >> >> Anyone upgraded to 11.04 yet? I want to hold off as I cannot afford an >> upgrade that then leaves me with issues to fix. If anyone has >> experiences to share as they do the upgrade on a laptop I would love to >> hear about it. > > > I use an Asus netbook. I ran Ubuntu Netbook Remix at first, then with > 10.10 I was a bit disappointed at the loss of some familiar > functionality. I hear that 11.04 will be better. I am doing it now and > I'll post later to say what I think of the outcome. It will take me awhile to find all of the things I love and hate about the new environment, but I can give you two hates right now! ;-) First, I was used to the Unity-style interface because that's what Ubuntu gave me on my netbook with 10.10. The newer version looks a little nicer, but the program I use most of all did not work: The icon for the gnome-terminal is there as before, but nothing happens when I click on it. To get a terminal window, I had to open Nautilus and find the executable, which was in /usr/bin/, I think, and click on its icon. That was very annoying, but the next problem was that I couldn't figure out how to change the path to gnome-terminal in the Unity menu system -- it must be specified incorrectly somewhere because the icon doesn't run the program, but the program exists in /usr/bin. It would be nice if a right-click on the icon allowed the user to edit what it does. Second, the task "Launcher" on the left side of the screen behaves quite badly when there is an open window near that side of the screen. It tends to jump in and out making it very difficult to click on an icon. Another thing: The scroll bars work in a new way that I find very bothersome right now. Maybe I'll learn to like it. I'll give it a chance. Does anyone know how I can fix the problem with the gnome-terminal setting in the Launcher? I don't mind using xterm. I think the problem might be that the path to gnome-terminal is not specified, and the system path does not include /usr/bin when Unity starts up. I'm looking at this file: ~/.local/share/applications/gnome-terminal.desktop Mike _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed May 4 20:35:40 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 20:35:40 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 11.04 released ... anyone tried on laptop? In-Reply-To: <131811232.3650471304550124195.JavaMail.root@dsmdc-mail-mbs12> References: <131811232.3650471304550124195.JavaMail.root@dsmdc-mail-mbs12> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 May 2011, Eric Schultz wrote: > I have updated to 11.04 on a dell 1501. I had to redo my wireless > drivers, minor hick up...but it works fine. It is purely an internet > machine, and I do use open Office for report writing, but I don't do any > programming. And ... your gnome-terminal on the Launcher is working? Mike From eric.schultz at mchsi.com Wed May 4 21:51:05 2011 From: eric.schultz at mchsi.com (Eric Schultz) Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 21:51:05 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 11.04 released ... anyone tried on laptop? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <794272269.3685851304563865597.JavaMail.root@dsmdc-mail-mbs12> Yes, I can go into terminal, and run commands. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Miller" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2011 8:35:40 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 11.04 released ... anyone tried on laptop? On Wed, 4 May 2011, Eric Schultz wrote: > I have updated to 11.04 on a dell 1501. I had to redo my wireless > drivers, minor hick up...but it works fine. It is purely an internet > machine, and I do use open Office for report writing, but I don't do any > programming. And ... your gnome-terminal on the Launcher is working? Mike _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-l From brian at ropers-huilman.net Thu May 5 08:30:27 2011 From: brian at ropers-huilman.net (Brian D. Ropers-Huilman) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 08:30:27 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 11.04 released ... anyone tried on laptop? In-Reply-To: References: <004e01cc05cb$4ff72a40$efe57ec0$@net> Message-ID: On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 16:50, Mike Miller wrote: >> On Thu, 28 Apr 2011, Randy Clarksean wrote: >>> Anyone upgraded to 11.04 yet? I've taken the plunge and upgraded my laptop as well as my desktop here at work. Did it on Day 1, actually. :) > It will take me awhile to find all of the things I love and hate about the > new environment, ... Agreed. I'd made a move to the Macbuntu setup for a few months on v10.10, so I was already getting used to some of the changes Unity itself makes. I'm not sure if I like them, but at least I was used to them. > gnome-terminal is there as before, but nothing happens when I click on it. If you go into Settings, you can click the "Main Menu" selection in the Personal section. Then, under Accessories you can check the Properties of the gnome-terminal icon. I've found that whatever I edit there is reflected in the Unity bar. However, I see that Natty v11.04 is including byobu now and it seems they want to make that the default (which is, of course, just gnome-terminal automatically running the newer byobu version of good ol' screen). Since I run screen all the time, I was quite pleased to see my own .screenrc brought in and layered on top of the default byobu settings, which I think are quite nice. Something to look at. > To get a terminal window, I had to open Nautilus and find the executable, > which was in /usr/bin/, I think, and click on its icon. Alternatively, you could just press and then just type gnome-terminal. > Second, the task "Launcher" on the left side of the screen behaves quite > badly when there is an open window near that side of the screen. ?It tends > to jump in and out making it very difficult to click on an icon. I've also changed that setting in the Settings application. There's a Launcher & Menus selection that I changed to "Touches the top left corner of the screen." This shows a wee little colored triangle in the upper-left corner that I can mouse to and show the Unity Launcher bar. Works everytime. When I had it set to the default of "Pushes the left edge of the screen" I saw the same behavior you report. > Another thing: ?The scroll bars work in a new way that I find very > bothersome right now. ?Maybe I'll learn to like it. ?I'll give it a chance. I agree, I don't like those, ... but suppose I'll get used to them. Another annoyance I've found is that my mouse scroll-wheel doesn't seem to work to scroll windows in all applications. I haven't done a controlled experiment on that yet, so it just seems random, which makes it more frustrating. > Does anyone know how I can fix the problem with the gnome-terminal setting > in the Launcher? I'd try doing the edit I described above. If that doesn't update the gnome-terminal Launcher icon, you can always the icon in the Launcher and uncheck "Keep in Launcher," then go do the edit I mention above, then use the Launcher to show all Applications, navigate to the Accessories, and then drag-and-drop the newly modified gnome-terminal icon into the Launcher. That should "force" the issue and update what's in the Launcher. I'm going to continue giving Unity a fair shot. But ... I'm getting closer and closer to moving back to fluxbox. I was an fvwm (and then fvwm2) guy in the 90s. Then, when I moved to Gentoo in early 2002 I shifted to fluxbox, which I used until 2006 when I made the switch to Kubuntu (KDE-based). I soon tired of that (too much to configure) and shifted to straight Ubuntu in 2008. I've been lucky enough to run on machines with sufficient resources, so the bloat of KDE and GNOME never "bothered" me, so long as I could keep a fairly minimalist desktop. I agree with another poster that Unity seems to make sense for touch interfaces on hand-held devices (of any size) but doesn't make sense on a modern, large LCD or across a multiple LCD display system. Oh, one last thing: I _had_ to go into the Compiz settings and change the window switcher back to a "standard" (I use the ring switcher) so I could use my ages old to move between windows. :) Just my $0.02US -- Brian D. Ropers-Huilman 612.234.7778 (m) From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com Fri May 6 01:08:24 2011 From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 01:08:24 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] 1104 Message-ID: I have ran my HP 8530w with Ubuntu 11.04. It everything works fine but I'm not a fan of the interface. I'm sticking with Fedora for my polished desktop Distribution. I would Like to thank Nathan and Jason for coming out to the FREE BEER night, It was fun and everybody had a good time. ,Ron -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From galanolwe at yahoo.com Fri May 6 08:45:47 2011 From: galanolwe at yahoo.com (Olwe Bottorff) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 06:45:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Cloning a hard drive? In-Reply-To: <794272269.3685851304563865597.JavaMail.root@dsmdc-mail-mbs12> Message-ID: <97897.38256.qm@web161605.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I've got U10.04 on my Thinkpad T61 on an older, smaller hard drive. I've snooped around and come up with CloneZilla for moving everything to my newer, bigger drive. I basically want to move the whole drive over to a new drive *without* the new drive being active. (Will clone old image to external drive, then swap drives in the T61, then transfer image to new drive.) This site: http://goinglinux.com/articles/ClonezillaLive.html talks about using CloneZilla. Anybody have better advice? OlweGM,MN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hpenner at gmail.com Fri May 6 09:09:34 2011 From: hpenner at gmail.com (Harry Penner) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 09:09:34 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cloning a hard drive? In-Reply-To: <97897.38256.qm@web161605.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <97897.38256.qm@web161605.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2328086891338569813@unknownmsgid> Nope, you're on the right track -- I used Clonezilla Live a few weeks ago to do the same thing and it worked like a charm... -H On May 6, 2011, at 8:45, Olwe Bottorff wrote: I've got U10.04 on my Thinkpad T61 on an older, smaller hard drive. I've snooped around and come up with CloneZilla for moving everything to my newer, bigger drive. I basically want to move the whole drive over to a new drive *without* the new drive being active. (Will clone old image to external drive, then swap drives in the T61, then transfer image to new drive.) This site: http://goinglinux.com/articles/ClonezillaLive.html talks about using CloneZilla. Anybody have better advice? Olwe GM,MN _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nesius at gmail.com Fri May 6 09:12:56 2011 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 09:12:56 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cloning a hard drive? In-Reply-To: <97897.38256.qm@web161605.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <794272269.3685851304563865597.JavaMail.root@dsmdc-mail-mbs12> <97897.38256.qm@web161605.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > I've got U10.04 on my Thinkpad T61 on an older, smaller hard drive. I've > snooped around and come up with CloneZilla for moving everything to my > newer, bigger drive. I basically want to move the whole drive over to a new > drive *without* the new drive being active. (Will clone old image to > external drive, then swap drives in the T61, then transfer image to new > drive.) This site: http://goinglinux.com/articles/ClonezillaLive.htmltalks about using CloneZilla. Anybody have better advice? You gotta put the image somewhere if you're not blasting it straight to the new drive. You using a USB drive or something? Clonezilla will easily handle that task - I use it for all of my imaging needs. You might want to use gpartd (sp?) to resize the partition on the new disk afterwards. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kjh at flyballdogs.com Fri May 6 09:22:42 2011 From: kjh at flyballdogs.com (Kathryn Hogg) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 09:22:42 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] =?utf-8?q?Cloning_a_hard_drive=3F?= In-Reply-To: <2328086891338569813@unknownmsgid> References: <97897.38256.qm@web161605.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <2328086891338569813@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Clonezilla is what I used for almost the same scenario. Except that I went to microcenter and picked up an esata/usb enclosure for like $6.99, put the new drive in it, connected to laptop, and used Clonezilla live to copy. Then I used gparted live to have the partition take up the whole drive, swapped the drives and rebooted from the new hard drive. -- Kathryn Hogg http://womensfooty.com From galanolwe at yahoo.com Fri May 6 11:38:24 2011 From: galanolwe at yahoo.com (Olwe Bottorff) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 09:38:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Cloning a hard drive? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <649550.83245.qm@web161610.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> So something like this would allow me to clone directly onto my new drive? Sabrent 2.5" USB 2.0 to IDE/PATA Aluminum Hard Drive Enclosure (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1086960&CatId=2781) --- On Fri, 5/6/11, Kathryn Hogg wrote: From: Kathryn Hogg Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Cloning a hard drive? To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Date: Friday, May 6, 2011, 9:22 AM Clonezilla is what I used for almost the same scenario. Except that I went to microcenter and picked up an esata/usb enclosure for like $6.99, put the new drive in it, connected to laptop, and used Clonezilla live to copy. Then I used gparted live to have the partition take up the whole drive, swapped the drives and rebooted from the new hard drive. -- Kathryn Hogg http://womensfooty.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Fri May 6 11:41:33 2011 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 11:41:33 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cloning a hard drive? In-Reply-To: <649550.83245.qm@web161610.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <649550.83245.qm@web161610.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2D8A8599-4C4E-494A-8493-BC09C4DB5C1C@me.com> If the new drive is a PATA and not SATA, yes. On May 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > So something like this would allow me to clone directly onto my new drive? > > Sabrent 2.5" USB 2.0 to IDE/PATA Aluminum Hard Drive Enclosure (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1086960&CatId=2781) > > > > --- On Fri, 5/6/11, Kathryn Hogg wrote: > > From: Kathryn Hogg > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Cloning a hard drive? > To: "TCLUG Mailing List" > Date: Friday, May 6, 2011, 9:22 AM > > Clonezilla is what I used for almost the same scenario. Except that I went to microcenter and picked up an esata/usb enclosure for like $6.99, put the new drive in it, connected to laptop, and used Clonezilla live to copy. > > Then I used gparted live to have the partition take up the whole drive, swapped the drives and rebooted from the new hard drive. > > -- Kathryn Hogg > http://womensfooty.com > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From galanolwe at yahoo.com Fri May 6 12:06:59 2011 From: galanolwe at yahoo.com (Olwe Bottorff) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 10:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Cloning a hard drive? In-Reply-To: <2D8A8599-4C4E-494A-8493-BC09C4DB5C1C@me.com> Message-ID: <966558.1191.qm@web161615.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Gotcha. Thanks. If the new drive is a PATA and not SATA, yes. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Fri May 6 12:48:35 2011 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 12:48:35 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cloning a hard drive? In-Reply-To: <966558.1191.qm@web161615.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <966558.1191.qm@web161615.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Also you'll want to check to make sure the drive you're replacing is also a PATA drive... I don't know why I didn't mention that earlier. On May 6, 2011, at 12:06 PM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > Gotcha. Thanks. > > > If the new drive is a PATA and not SATA, yes. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com Fri May 6 16:49:56 2011 From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 16:49:56 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cloning a hard drive? In-Reply-To: <97897.38256.qm@web161605.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <794272269.3685851304563865597.JavaMail.root@dsmdc-mail-mbs12> <97897.38256.qm@web161605.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Clonezilla is probably best because it is an all-in-one solution. Another option would be to boot a live Linux CD and dd old drive to image, then dd the image to the new drive (md5 hashing along the way to ensure integrity if you so chose). After that expand the partitions out on the drive with gparted (could resize on the image created too, but easier once on the target drive). Either of these methods will grab the old physical disk sector by sector, thus taking care of the boot stuff like the MBR so don't to deal with it after copying. Another one for creating images is partimage (has on the fly superb compression for the image, if needed), which works great but I think the first two options would be easiest for what you are doing. Good luck, Jeremy MountainJohnson jskier at gmail.com On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > > I've got U10.04 on my Thinkpad T61 on an older, smaller hard drive. I've snooped around and come up with CloneZilla for moving everything to my newer, bigger drive. I basically want to move the whole drive over to a new drive *without* the new drive being active. (Will clone old image to external drive, then swap drives in the T61, then transfer image to new drive.) This site: http://goinglinux.com/articles/ClonezillaLive.html talks about using CloneZilla. Anybody have better advice? > Olwe > GM,MN > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com Fri May 6 17:05:23 2011 From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 17:05:23 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cloning a hard drive? In-Reply-To: <649550.83245.qm@web161610.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <649550.83245.qm@web161610.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: That will work assuming your target drive where you are copying the image is 2.5 inch PATA. Doesn't matter if the "new" or "old" physical drive itself is SATA or PATA; if I read your initial post correctly, you are going to dump the created image residing on a separate external drive to the new drive (a middle man type set up). So to recap, you can go from old drive either SATA/PATA > external PATA via USB 2 bus for imaging > replace old drive with new and dump the image residing on the PATA USB2 source to either PATA/SATA natively without any problems. The only problem going from old PATA drive to new SATA drive, which I doubt your doing on a laptop, is hoping the drivers pick up properly on the SATA drive when you boot up. Data integrity and the file system itself will be the same. There will be no problems going from SATA > PATA via USB2 bus or even IDE > SATA, I know this from extensive experience. Jeremy MountainJohnson jskier at gmail.com On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > So something like this would allow me to clone directly onto my new drive? > > Sabrent 2.5" USB 2.0 to IDE/PATA Aluminum Hard Drive Enclosure ( > http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1086960&CatId=2781 > ) > > > > --- On *Fri, 5/6/11, Kathryn Hogg * wrote: > > > From: Kathryn Hogg > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Cloning a hard drive? > To: "TCLUG Mailing List" > Date: Friday, May 6, 2011, 9:22 AM > > > Clonezilla is what I used for almost the same scenario. Except that I went > to microcenter and picked up an esata/usb enclosure for like $6.99, put the > new drive in it, connected to laptop, and used Clonezilla live to copy. > > Then I used gparted live to have the partition take up the whole drive, > swapped the drives and rebooted from the new hard drive. > > -- Kathryn Hogg > http://womensfooty.com > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at lctn.org Mon May 9 09:00:40 2011 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 09:00:40 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Using find to move old files Message-ID: <4DC7F388.1090207@lctn.org> I need help with a 'find' command that will move inbound mail messages that are older than 3 days to a temp folder. Raymond -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From jus at krytosvirus.com Mon May 9 09:53:39 2011 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 09:53:39 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Using find to move old files In-Reply-To: <4DC7F388.1090207@lctn.org> References: <4DC7F388.1090207@lctn.org> Message-ID: <1304952819.29364.4.camel@sysadmin3a> This will move files whose modification time is > 3 days in the past find /path/to/search/ -type f -mtime +3 -exec mv {} /place/to/move/to/ \; On Mon, 2011-05-09 at 09:00 -0500, Raymond Norton wrote: > I need help with a 'find' command that will move inbound mail messages > that are older than 3 days to a temp folder. > > Raymond > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trieff at greencaremankato.com Tue May 10 08:13:27 2011 From: trieff at greencaremankato.com (Thomas Rieff) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 08:13:27 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Microsoft Buys Skype In-Reply-To: Message-ID: TCLUG, It was in the news today, see article below, that Microsoft has purchased Skype. Being that Skype has gone to the Dark Side :-), Is there another video conferencing alternative to Skype that could be used??? Linux based. Server Based??? Tom Reuters This copy is for your personal, non-commercial use only. To order presentation-ready copies for distribution to colleagues, clients or customers, use the Reprints tool at the top of any article or visit: www.reutersreprints.com . Microsoft inks $8.5 billion Skype buy in Web shift Photo 8:55am EDT By Nadia Damouni and Bill Rigby NEW YORK (Reuters) - Microsoft Corp plans to buy Internet phone service Skype for $8.5 billion, a rich price as it seeks to regain ground on growing rivals such as Google Inc. Microsoft's interest in the money-losing but popular service highlights a need to gain new customers for its Windows and Office software. Skype has 145 million users on average each month and has gained favor among small business users. Skype delayed plans for an initial public offering expected to raise $1 billion. It has been looking at other options, including tie-ups with Facebook and Google. Such a deal was seen as valuing Skype at $3 billion to $4 billion. The Luxembourg-based company, which allows people to make calls at no charge but has also developed premium services, would give Microsoft a foothold in the potentially lucrative video-conferencing market as businesses shift to lower-cost ways of communicating. Skype could be combined with Microsoft software such as Outlook to appeal to corporate users, while the voice and video communications could link to Microsoft's Xbox live gaming. Longer-term, Skype would offer Microsoft another route to develop its mobile presence, an area it has already put more energy and resources into as PC usage comes under threat. Skype is set to become a new business division within Microsoft with Skype Chief Executive Tony Bates in charge and reporting directly to Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer, Microsoft said. "It's a strategic asset and a defensive move," said BGC Financial analyst Colin Gillis. "If they can put it on Windows 8, it gives them an advantage. It helps them in the tablet market." The Skype deal is the biggest in the 36-year history of the world's largest software company. It was first reported late on Monday by tech blog GigaOM. The $8.5 billion price tag was a surprise. Although the sum would not stretch cash-rich Microsoft, some said it was high for a company whose ownership has changed several times during its relatively short life. "In this atmosphere of Internet Bubble 2.0, picking up an unprofitable online company for roughly 10 times sales probably seems downright cheap,"" Shanghai-based Michael Clendenin, managing director of consulting firm RedTech Advisors, said. "But if you consider (it) was just valued at about $2.5 billion 18 months ago when a chunk was sold off, then $8.5 billion seems generous and means Microsoft has a high wall to climb to prove to investors that Skype is a necessary linchpin for the company's online and mobile strategy," he added. Skype, which was formed in 2003, was bought by eBay Inc in 2005 for $3.1 billion. Last year it had in $860 million in revenue but posted a net loss of $7 million, according to data in its initial public offering filing. In 2009, eBay sold a majority stake in Skype to an investor group including Silver Lake, the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board and Andreessen Horowitz for $1.9 billion in cash and a $125 million note. EBay retained about a third. (Additional reporting by Megan Davies , Bill Rigby and Sinead Carew , Sakthi Prasad in Bangalore, Clare Jim in Taipei and Melanie Lee in Singapore; Tarmo Virki in Helsinki and Nicola Leske in Frankfurt; Writing by Alexander Smith ; Editing by Louise Heavens and Derek Caney ) ? Thomson Reuters 2011. All rights reserved. Users may download and print extracts of content from this website for their own personal and non-commercial use only. Republication or redistribution of Thomson Reuters content, including by framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Thomson Reuters. Thomson Reuters and its logo are registered trademarks or trademarks of the Thomson Reuters group of companies around the world. Thomson Reuters journalists are subject to an Editorial Handbook which requires fair presentation and disclosure of relevant interests. This copy is for your personal, non-commercial use only. To order presentation-ready copies for distribution to colleagues, clients or customers, use the Reprints tool at the top of any article or visit: www.reutersreprints.com .
DCSIMG
Thomas Rieff GreenCare 1717 3rd Avenue Mankato, MN 56001 (507) 344-8314 Office (507) 344-8316 Fax (507) 381-0660 Cell -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From taanerud at comcast.net Tue May 10 08:19:08 2011 From: taanerud at comcast.net (Timothy Aanerud) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 08:19:08 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Microsoft Buys Skype In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DC93B4C.3090802@comcast.net> On the plus side of this transaction, the skype installer will stop bundling Google chrome. -- Timothy On 5/10/2011 8:13 AM, Thomas Rieff wrote: > TCLUG, > It was in the news today, see article below, that Microsoft has > purchased Skype. > Being that Skype has gone to the Dark Side :-), Is there another video > conferencing alternative to Skype that could be used??? Linux based. > Server Based??? > Tom > > Reuters > > This copy is for your personal, non-commercial use only. To order > presentation-ready copies for distribution to colleagues, clients or > customers, use the Reprints tool at the top of any article or visit: > www.reutersreprints.com . > > > Microsoft inks $8.5 billion Skype buy in Web shift > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjb at umn.edu Tue May 10 08:24:10 2011 From: mjb at umn.edu (Michael Berkowski) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 08:24:10 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Microsoft Buys Skype In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DC93C7A.90409@umn.edu> On 5/10/2011 8:13 AM, Thomas Rieff wrote: > Being that Skype has gone to the Dark Side :-), Is there another video conferencing alternative to Skype that could be used??? Linux based. Server Based??? Skype always kinda was on the dark side. MS does intend to continue supporting non-Win platforms for Skype though. Ekiga has had videoconferencing support for some time, though getting it running on non-Linux platforms is, I've heard, a chore. Doesn't Pidgin also have XMPP video conferencing on Linux? +++++++++++++++++ Michael Berkowski Minitex / MnLINK Linux Systems Administrator and Programmer University of Minnesota PGP Public key: http://www.tc.umn.edu/~berk0081/pgp/pubkey.asc +++++++++++++++++ > TCLUG, > It was in the news today, see article below, that Microsoft has purchased Skype. > Being that Skype has gone to the Dark Side :-), Is there another video conferencing alternative to Skype that could be used??? Linux based. Server Based??? > Tom > > > > Reuters > > > > > This copy is for your personal, non-commercial use only. To order presentation-ready copies for distribution to colleagues, clients or customers, use the Reprints tool at the top of any article or visit: www.reutersreprints.com . > Microsoft inks $8.5 billion Skype buy in Web shift > > Photo > 8:55am EDT > By Nadia Damouni and Bill Rigby > NEW YORK (Reuters) - Microsoft Corp plans to buy Internet phone service Skype for $8.5 billion, a rich price as it seeks to regain ground on growing rivals such as Google Inc. > Microsoft's interest in the money-losing but popular service highlights a need to gain new customers for its Windows and Office software. Skype has 145 million users on average each month and has gained favor among small business users. > Skype delayed plans for an initial public offering expected to raise $1 billion. It has been looking at other options, including tie-ups with Facebook and Google. Such a deal was seen as valuing Skype at $3 billion to $4 billion. > The Luxembourg-based company, which allows people to make calls at no charge but has also developed premium services, would give Microsoft a foothold in the potentially lucrative video-conferencing market as businesses shift to lower-cost ways of communicating. > Skype could be combined with Microsoft software such as Outlook to appeal to corporate users, while the voice and video communications could link to Microsoft's Xbox live gaming. > Longer-term, Skype would offer Microsoft another route to develop its mobile presence, an area it has already put more energy and resources into as PC usage comes under threat. > Skype is set to become a new business division within Microsoft with Skype Chief Executive Tony Bates in charge and reporting directly to Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer, Microsoft said. > "It's a strategic asset and a defensive move," said BGC Financial analyst Colin Gillis. "If they can put it on Windows 8, it gives them an advantage. It helps them in the tablet market." > The Skype deal is the biggest in the 36-year history of the world's largest software company. It was first reported late on Monday by tech blog GigaOM. > The $8.5 billion price tag was a surprise. Although the sum would not stretch cash-rich Microsoft, some said it was high for a company whose ownership has changed several times during its relatively short life. > "In this atmosphere of Internet Bubble 2.0, picking up an unprofitable online company for roughly 10 times sales probably seems downright cheap,"" Shanghai-based Michael Clendenin, managing director of consulting firm RedTech Advisors, said. > "But if you consider (it) was just valued at about $2.5 billion 18 months ago when a chunk was sold off, then $8.5 billion seems generous and means Microsoft has a high wall to climb to prove to investors that Skype is a necessary linchpin for the company's online and mobile strategy," he added. > Skype, which was formed in 2003, was bought by eBay Inc in 2005 for $3.1 billion. Last year it had in $860 million in revenue but posted a net loss of $7 million, according to data in its initial public offering filing. > In 2009, eBay sold a majority stake in Skype to an investor group including Silver Lake, the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board and Andreessen Horowitz for $1.9 billion in cash and a $125 million note. EBay retained about a third. > (Additional reporting by Megan Davies , Bill Rigby and Sinead Carew , Sakthi Prasad in Bangalore, Clare Jim in Taipei and Melanie Lee in Singapore; Tarmo Virki in Helsinki and Nicola Leske in Frankfurt; Writing by Alexander Smith ; Editing by Louise Heavens and Derek Caney ) > > ?? Thomson Reuters 2011. All rights reserved. Users may download and print extracts of content from this website for their own personal and non-commercial use only. Republication or redistribution of Thomson Reuters content, including by framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Thomson Reuters. Thomson Reuters and its logo are registered trademarks or trademarks of the Thomson Reuters group of companies around the world. > Thomson Reuters journalists are subject to an Editorial Handbook which requires fair presentation and disclosure of relevant interests. > This copy is for your personal, non-commercial use only. To order presentation-ready copies for distribution to colleagues, clients or customers, use the Reprints tool at the top of any article or visit: www.reutersreprints.com .
DCSIMG
> > Thomas Rieff > GreenCare > 1717 3rd Avenue > Mankato, MN 56001 > (507) 344-8314 Office > (507) 344-8316 Fax > (507) 381-0660 Cell > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From florin at iucha.net Tue May 10 08:25:33 2011 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 08:25:33 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Microsoft Buys Skype In-Reply-To: <4DC93B4C.3090802@comcast.net> References: <4DC93B4C.3090802@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20110510132532.GB9704@styx.iucha.org> On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 08:19:08AM -0500, Timothy Aanerud wrote: > On the plus side of this transaction, the skype installer will stop > bundling Google chrome. ... to bundle .net and silverlight instead 8^) Cheers, florin -- Don't question authority! They don't know either. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cschumann at twp-llc.com Tue May 10 08:31:26 2011 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 08:31:26 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Microsoft Buys Skype In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DC93E2E.80302@twp-llc.com> > Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 08:13:27 -0500 (CDT) > From: Thomas Rieff > TCLUG, > It was in the news today, see article below, that Microsoft has purchased Skype. > Being that Skype has gone to the Dark Side :-), Is there another video conferencing alternative to Skype that could be used??? Linux based. Server Based??? > Tom Yugma is cross platform, and their HQ is in Eden Prairie. Chris From tompoe at meltel.net Tue May 10 09:53:50 2011 From: tompoe at meltel.net (tom) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 09:53:50 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Microsoft Buys Skype In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1305039230.15566.2.camel@taichi> Bummer! Skype was so easy to install and use on my desktop. Now, I have to refire my enthusiasm for going through the learning curve to set up a working home pbx with asterisknow, I guess. Anyone have a working 1.6 asterisk? I have the book, and lots of beginner questions. No money to hire consultant, though. :) Tom On Tue, 2011-05-10 at 08:13 -0500, Thomas Rieff wrote: > TCLUG, > It was in the news today, see article below, that Microsoft has > purchased Skype. > Being that Skype has gone to the Dark Side :-), Is there another video > conferencing alternative to Skype that could be used??? Linux based. > Server Based??? > Tom > > Reuters > > > This copy is for your personal, non-commercial use only. To order > presentation-ready copies for distribution to colleagues, clients or > customers, use the Reprints tool at the top of any article or visit: > www.reutersreprints.com. > > > Microsoft inks $8.5 billion Skype buy in Web shift > Photo > 8:55am EDT > By Nadia Damouni and Bill Rigby > > NEW YORK (Reuters) - Microsoft Corp plans to buy Internet phone > service Skype for $8.5 billion, a rich price as it seeks to regain > ground on growing rivals such as Google Inc. > > Microsoft's interest in the money-losing but popular service > highlights a need to gain new customers for its Windows and Office > software. Skype has 145 million users on average each month and has > gained favor among small business users. > > Skype delayed plans for an initial public offering expected to raise > $1 billion. It has been looking at other options, including tie-ups > with Facebook and Google. Such a deal was seen as valuing Skype at $3 > billion to $4 billion. > > The Luxembourg-based company, which allows people to make calls at no > charge but has also developed premium services, would give Microsoft a > foothold in the potentially lucrative video-conferencing market as > businesses shift to lower-cost ways of communicating. > > Skype could be combined with Microsoft software such as Outlook to > appeal to corporate users, while the voice and video communications > could link to Microsoft's Xbox live gaming. > > Longer-term, Skype would offer Microsoft another route to develop its > mobile presence, an area it has already put more energy and resources > into as PC usage comes under threat. > > Skype is set to become a new business division within Microsoft with > Skype Chief Executive Tony Bates in charge and reporting directly to > Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer, Microsoft said. > > "It's a strategic asset and a defensive move," said BGC Financial > analyst Colin Gillis. "If they can put it on Windows 8, it gives them > an advantage. It helps them in the tablet market." > > The Skype deal is the biggest in the 36-year history of the world's > largest software company. It was first reported late on Monday by tech > blog GigaOM. > > The $8.5 billion price tag was a surprise. Although the sum would not > stretch cash-rich Microsoft, some said it was high for a company whose > ownership has changed several times during its relatively short life. > > "In this atmosphere of Internet Bubble 2.0, picking up an unprofitable > online company for roughly 10 times sales probably seems downright > cheap,"" Shanghai-based Michael Clendenin, managing director of > consulting firm RedTech Advisors, said. > > "But if you consider (it) was just valued at about $2.5 billion 18 > months ago when a chunk was sold off, then $8.5 billion seems generous > and means Microsoft has a high wall to climb to prove to investors > that Skype is a necessary linchpin for the company's online and mobile > strategy," he added. > > Skype, which was formed in 2003, was bought by eBay Inc in 2005 for > $3.1 billion. Last year it had in $860 million in revenue but posted a > net loss of $7 million, according to data in its initial public > offering filing. > > In 2009, eBay sold a majority stake in Skype to an investor group > including Silver Lake, the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board and > Andreessen Horowitz for $1.9 billion in cash and a $125 million note. > EBay retained about a third. > > (Additional reporting by Megan Davies, Bill Rigby and Sinead Carew, > Sakthi Prasad in Bangalore, Clare Jim in Taipei and Melanie Lee in > Singapore; Tarmo Virki in Helsinki and Nicola Leske in Frankfurt; > Writing by Alexander Smith; Editing by Louise Heavens and Derek Caney) > > > ? Thomson Reuters 2011. All rights reserved. Users may download and > print extracts of content from this website for their own personal and > non-commercial use only. Republication or redistribution of Thomson > Reuters content, including by framing or similar means, is expressly > prohibited without the prior written consent of Thomson Reuters. > Thomson Reuters and its logo are registered trademarks or trademarks > of the Thomson Reuters group of companies around the world. > > Thomson Reuters journalists are subject to an Editorial Handbook which > requires fair presentation and disclosure of relevant interests. > > This copy is for your personal, non-commercial use only. To order > presentation-ready copies for distribution to colleagues, clients or > customers, use the Reprints tool at the top of any article or visit: > www.reutersreprints.com. > > > DCSIMG > > > Thomas Rieff > GreenCare > 1717 3rd Avenue > Mankato, MN 56001 > (507) 344-8314 Office > (507) 344-8316 Fax > (507) 381-0660 Cell > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mastercactapus at gmail.com Tue May 10 13:06:37 2011 From: mastercactapus at gmail.com (Nathan Caza) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 13:06:37 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Microsoft Buys Skype In-Reply-To: References: <1305039230.15566.2.camel@taichi> Message-ID: Yeah I will miss it. But isn't gnu free call in the works? On May 10, 2011 9:53 AM, "tom" wrote: Bummer! Skype was so easy to install and use on my desktop. Now, I have to refire my enthusiasm for going through the learning curve to set up a working home pbx with asterisknow, I guess. Anyone have a working 1.6 asterisk? I have the book, and lots of beginner questions. No money to hire consultant, though. :) Tom On Tue, 2011-05-10 at 08:13 -0500, Thomas Rieff wrote: > TCLUG, > It was in the news today, see art... > Reuters > > > This copy is for your personal, non-commercial use only. To order > presentation-r... > Photo > 8:55am EDT > By Nadia Damouni and Bill Rigby > > NEW YORK (Reuters) - Microsoft Corp plan... > DCSIMG > > > Thomas Rieff > GreenCare > 1717 3rd Avenue > Mankato, MN 56001 > (507) 344-8314... > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minne... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kris.browne at gmail.com Tue May 10 13:57:23 2011 From: kris.browne at gmail.com (Kristopher Browne) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 13:57:23 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Microsoft Buys Skype In-Reply-To: References: <1305039230.15566.2.camel@taichi> Message-ID: <0D53A9EA-E953-4861-9B7D-326772C3D813@gmail.com> Like Hurd? GNU isn't in the business of fast. Kristopher Browne http://www.google.com/profiles/kris.browne On May 10, 2011, at 13:06, Nathan Caza wrote: > Yeah I will miss it. But isn't gnu free call in the works? > >> On May 10, 2011 9:53 AM, "tom" wrote: >> >> Bummer! Skype was so easy to install and use on my desktop. Now, I >> have to refire my enthusiasm for going through the learning curve to set >> up a working home pbx with asterisknow, I guess. Anyone have a working >> 1.6 asterisk? I have the book, and lots of beginner questions. No >> money to hire consultant, though. :) >> Tom >> >> On Tue, 2011-05-10 at 08:13 -0500, Thomas Rieff wrote: >> > TCLUG, >> > It was in the news today, see art... >> >> > Reuters >> > >> > >> > This copy is for your personal, non-commercial use only. To order >> > presentation-r... >> >> > Photo >> > 8:55am EDT >> > By Nadia Damouni and Bill Rigby >> > >> > NEW YORK (Reuters) - Microsoft Corp plan... >> >> > DCSIMG >> > >> > >> > Thomas Rieff >> > GreenCare >> > 1717 3rd Avenue >> > Mankato, MN 56001 >> > (507) 344-8314... >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minne... >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue May 10 14:26:46 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 14:26:46 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Microsoft Buys Skype In-Reply-To: <4DC93C7A.90409@umn.edu> References: <4DC93C7A.90409@umn.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 May 2011, Michael Berkowski wrote: > On 5/10/2011 8:13 AM, Thomas Rieff wrote: > >> Being that Skype has gone to the Dark Side :-), Is there another video >> conferencing alternative to Skype that could be used??? Linux based. >> Server Based??? > > Skype always kinda was on the dark side. Definitely, but I have used it anyway, though rarely. It's convenient to have it on my Ubuntu netbook when I'm traveling. I used it to call home to the US from South Korea last year, and it worked great -- the hotel in South Korea had 18 mpbs down and 7 mbps up. > MS does intend to continue supporting non-Win platforms for Skype > though. That's what matters to me with Skype. It's a paying service anyway. It might not even be possible to develop a free-software/open-source solution for that because people might find ways to cheat -- I'm sure that's a major concern. Well, there is also computer-to-computer calling and conferencing and there I have no reason to want Skype and would definitely prefer FOSS. Mike From florin at iucha.net Tue May 10 22:04:29 2011 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 22:04:29 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Microsoft Buys Skype In-Reply-To: References: <4DC93C7A.90409@umn.edu> Message-ID: <20110511030429.GD9704@styx.iucha.org> On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 02:26:46PM -0500, Mike Miller wrote: > That's what matters to me with Skype. It's a paying service anyway. It > might not even be possible to develop a free-software/open-source > solution for that because people might find ways to cheat -- I'm sure > that's a major concern. There are three kinds of expenses: the equipment, the bandwidth and the connection to POTS. There isn't much you can cheat on any of them before you can call it outright stealing. Cheers, florin -- Don't question authority! They don't know either. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed May 11 02:26:25 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 02:26:25 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Microsoft Buys Skype In-Reply-To: <20110511030429.GD9704@styx.iucha.org> References: <4DC93C7A.90409@umn.edu> <20110511030429.GD9704@styx.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 May 2011, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 02:26:46PM -0500, Mike Miller wrote: > >> That's what matters to me with Skype. It's a paying service anyway. >> It might not even be possible to develop a free-software/open-source >> solution for that because people might find ways to cheat -- I'm sure >> that's a major concern. > > There are three kinds of expenses: the equipment, the bandwidth and the > connection to POTS. There isn't much you can cheat on any of them > before you can call it outright stealing. Obviously (I thought), the part I would think Skype would be concerned about (with regard to free software) was the POTS aspect and billing. There is another thing that I didn't think to mention earlier -- they have some kind of scheme where they use your bandwidth while Skype is running in the background. Here's something about it: http://tech.blorge.com/Structure:%20/2009/02/24/skype-steals-bandwidth-%E2%80%94-even-when-you-are-not-using-it/ I once heard that it had something to do with routing calls, but I don't know what they are doing. I keep it fully off unless I'm actually using it or expecting a call. It would be nice to have a free-software solution that allows POTS billing and has a central registry to allow people to call to a computer. What do you think? Can that be done? Mike From florin at iucha.net Wed May 11 02:59:40 2011 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 02:59:40 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Microsoft Buys Skype In-Reply-To: References: <4DC93C7A.90409@umn.edu> <20110511030429.GD9704@styx.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20110511075940.GF9704@styx.iucha.org> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 02:26:25AM -0500, Mike Miller wrote: >>> That's what matters to me with Skype. It's a paying service anyway. >>> It might not even be possible to develop a free-software/open-source >>> solution for that because people might find ways to cheat -- I'm sure >>> that's a major concern. >> >> There are three kinds of expenses: the equipment, the bandwidth and >> the connection to POTS. There isn't much you can cheat on any of them >> before you can call it outright stealing. > > Obviously (I thought), the part I would think Skype would be concerned > about (with regard to free software) was the POTS aspect and billing. How is that different than you accessing a service provided by Comcast / Qwest using free software? You are using a standard protocol (TCP/IP) to connect to them. Can you download/upload faster/more than your contract? No, unless there is a misconfiguration on their part. > There is another thing that I didn't think to mention earlier -- they > have some kind of scheme where they use your bandwidth while Skype is > running in the background. Here's something about it: > > http://tech.blorge.com/Structure:%20/2009/02/24/skype-steals-bandwidth-%E2%80%94-even-when-you-are-not-using-it/ > > I once heard that it had something to do with routing calls, but I don't > know what they are doing. I keep it fully off unless I'm actually using > it or expecting a call. It is similar to bittorrent. Some of the 'lucky' users become routers routers and the voice data is routed in a peer-to-peer fashion from point A to point B. > It would be nice to have a free-software solution that allows POTS > billing and has a central registry to allow people to call to a computer. > What do you think? Can that be done? Sure. Use Asterix and a VOIP provider. There are/were people on the list who ditched their hard phone line and were making calls with VOIP. I have no VOIP-fu but I know that It is like Vonage, OOMA, etc but you don't get a piece of hardware from them, instead you use your own PC and VOIP phone. Cheers, florin -- Don't question authority! They don't know either. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Wed May 11 07:06:14 2011 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 07:06:14 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Microsoft Buys Skype In-Reply-To: References: <4DC93C7A.90409@umn.edu> <20110511030429.GD9704@styx.iucha.org> Message-ID: <37180AD1-3747-4817-B395-3E2A99C76A73@me.com> On May 11, 2011, at 2:26 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Tue, 10 May 2011, Florin Iucha wrote: > >> On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 02:26:46PM -0500, Mike Miller wrote: >> >>> That's what matters to me with Skype. It's a paying service anyway. It might not even be possible to develop a free-software/open-source solution for that because people might find ways to cheat -- I'm sure that's a major concern. >> >> There are three kinds of expenses: the equipment, the bandwidth and the connection to POTS. There isn't much you can cheat on any of them before you can call it outright stealing. > > > Obviously (I thought), the part I would think Skype would be concerned about (with regard to free software) was the POTS aspect and billing. There is another thing that I didn't think to mention earlier -- they have some kind of scheme where they use your bandwidth while Skype is running in the background. Here's something about it: > > http://tech.blorge.com/Structure:%20/2009/02/24/skype-steals-bandwidth-%E2%80%94-even-when-you-are-not-using-it/ I read the blog. What makes it any different than AIM, Yahoo, etc., that calls home regularly to tell you if your friends are online or not or that you are online. Do you get a disclaimer on Adium or Pidgin or Trillian? No. ?-- Ryan From tclug at jfoo.org Wed May 11 07:59:21 2011 From: tclug at jfoo.org (John Gateley) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 07:59:21 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Microsoft Buys Skype In-Reply-To: References: <4DC93C7A.90409@umn.edu> <20110511030429.GD9704@styx.iucha.org> Message-ID: <4DCA8829.1050401@jfoo.org> On 5/11/11 2:26 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > http://tech.blorge.com/Structure:%20/2009/02/24/skype-steals-bandwidth-%E2%80%94-even-when-you-are-not-using-it/ > > > I once heard that it had something to do with routing calls, but I don't > know what they are doing. I keep it fully off unless I'm actually using > it or expecting a call. The blog had nothing to do with routing calls. It was a poorly written ("using up you bandwidth") hyperbolic ("As far as we are concerned in computers, sudden death") and factually misleading piece. They are talking about bitrates (kilo/mega/giga-bits/sec) and amount downloaded (kilo/mega/giga-BYTES/sec). Their conclusion: their ISP was capping them because of 3.9Gbytes/month. In reality, this is 500Mbytes/month. Not much traffic. You may be correct about skype stealing bandwidth, but that blog doesn't support it. John From florin at iucha.net Wed May 11 08:05:02 2011 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 08:05:02 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Microsoft Buys Skype In-Reply-To: <37180AD1-3747-4817-B395-3E2A99C76A73@me.com> References: <4DC93C7A.90409@umn.edu> <20110511030429.GD9704@styx.iucha.org> <37180AD1-3747-4817-B395-3E2A99C76A73@me.com> Message-ID: <20110511130500.GG9704@styx.iucha.org> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 07:06:14AM -0500, Ryan Coleman wrote: > > http://tech.blorge.com/Structure:%20/2009/02/24/skype-steals-bandwidth-%E2%80%94-even-when-you-are-not-using-it/ > > I read the blog. What makes it any different than AIM, Yahoo, etc., > that calls home regularly to tell you if your friends are online or not > or that you are online. Do you get a disclaimer on Adium or Pidgin or > Trillian? No. Well, duh! "Calling home" to see who else is connected is an obvious design for a person-server-person communication system. Just like IRC. But with IRC or Pidgin, the only thing going through your wire are bytes that you are originating or that you are receiving. For your benefit. With Skype you might be receiving, sending or computing checksums on behalf of other people whom you have never met. Now, this is not necessary a bad thing - this is how Skype makes money and can keep its services discounted to clients and profitable to the shareholders. As long as you know and you agree, all is fine. The trouble is when Skype consumes more resources that one expects. Cheers, florin -- Don't question authority! They don't know either. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Wed May 11 08:16:47 2011 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 08:16:47 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Microsoft Buys Skype In-Reply-To: <20110511130500.GG9704@styx.iucha.org> References: <4DC93C7A.90409@umn.edu> <20110511030429.GD9704@styx.iucha.org> <37180AD1-3747-4817-B395-3E2A99C76A73@me.com> <20110511130500.GG9704@styx.iucha.org> Message-ID: On May 11, 2011, at 8:05 AM, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 07:06:14AM -0500, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>> http://tech.blorge.com/Structure:%20/2009/02/24/skype-steals-bandwidth-%E2%80%94-even-when-you-are-not-using-it/ >> >> I read the blog. What makes it any different than AIM, Yahoo, etc., >> that calls home regularly to tell you if your friends are online or not >> or that you are online. Do you get a disclaimer on Adium or Pidgin or >> Trillian? No. > > Well, duh! "Calling home" to see who else is connected is an obvious > design for a person-server-person communication system. Just like > IRC. But with IRC or Pidgin, the only thing going through your wire > are bytes that you are originating or that you are receiving. For > your benefit. With Skype you might be receiving, sending or computing > checksums on behalf of other people whom you have never met. > > Now, this is not necessary a bad thing - this is how Skype makes money > and can keep its services discounted to clients and profitable to the > shareholders. As long as you know and you agree, all is fine. The > trouble is when Skype consumes more resources that one expects. Except that they have yet to turn a true profit :) From florin at iucha.net Wed May 11 09:15:43 2011 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 09:15:43 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Microsoft Buys Skype In-Reply-To: References: <4DC93C7A.90409@umn.edu> <20110511030429.GD9704@styx.iucha.org> <37180AD1-3747-4817-B395-3E2A99C76A73@me.com> <20110511130500.GG9704@styx.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20110511141543.GH9704@styx.iucha.org> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 08:16:47AM -0500, Ryan Coleman wrote: > > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 07:06:14AM -0500, Ryan Coleman wrote: > >>> http://tech.blorge.com/Structure:%20/2009/02/24/skype-steals-bandwidth-%E2%80%94-even-when-you-are-not-using-it/ > >> > >> I read the blog. What makes it any different than AIM, Yahoo, etc., > >> that calls home regularly to tell you if your friends are online or not > >> or that you are online. Do you get a disclaimer on Adium or Pidgin or > >> Trillian? No. > > > > Well, duh! "Calling home" to see who else is connected is an obvious > > design for a person-server-person communication system. Just like > > IRC. But with IRC or Pidgin, the only thing going through your wire > > are bytes that you are originating or that you are receiving. For > > your benefit. With Skype you might be receiving, sending or computing > > checksums on behalf of other people whom you have never met. > > > > Now, this is not necessary a bad thing - this is how Skype makes money > > and can keep its services discounted to clients and profitable to the > > shareholders. As long as you know and you agree, all is fine. The > > trouble is when Skype consumes more resources that one expects. > > Except that they have yet to turn a true profit :) How does $6bn sound? Cheers, florin -- Don't question authority! They don't know either. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Wed May 11 09:29:05 2011 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 09:29:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Microsoft Buys Skype In-Reply-To: <20110511141543.GH9704@styx.iucha.org> References: <4DC93C7A.90409@umn.edu> <20110511030429.GD9704@styx.iucha.org> <37180AD1-3747-4817-B395-3E2A99C76A73@me.com> <20110511130500.GG9704@styx.iucha.org> <20110511141543.GH9704@styx.iucha.org> Message-ID: <17FAE265-DF7D-45F2-B461-9B0B7FB4613E@me.com> On May 11, 2011, at 9:15 AM, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 08:16:47AM -0500, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 07:06:14AM -0500, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>>>> http://tech.blorge.com/Structure:%20/2009/02/24/skype-steals-bandwidth-%E2%80%94-even-when-you-are-not-using-it/ >>>> >>>> I read the blog. What makes it any different than AIM, Yahoo, etc., >>>> that calls home regularly to tell you if your friends are online or not >>>> or that you are online. Do you get a disclaimer on Adium or Pidgin or >>>> Trillian? No. >>> >>> Well, duh! "Calling home" to see who else is connected is an obvious >>> design for a person-server-person communication system. Just like >>> IRC. But with IRC or Pidgin, the only thing going through your wire >>> are bytes that you are originating or that you are receiving. For >>> your benefit. With Skype you might be receiving, sending or computing >>> checksums on behalf of other people whom you have never met. >>> >>> Now, this is not necessary a bad thing - this is how Skype makes money >>> and can keep its services discounted to clients and profitable to the >>> shareholders. As long as you know and you agree, all is fine. The >>> trouble is when Skype consumes more resources that one expects. >> >> Except that they have yet to turn a true profit :) > > How does $6bn sound? Well, ok... on the sale, but not as a business model. From nesius at gmail.com Wed May 11 09:32:44 2011 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 09:32:44 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Microsoft Buys Skype In-Reply-To: <17FAE265-DF7D-45F2-B461-9B0B7FB4613E@me.com> References: <4DC93C7A.90409@umn.edu> <20110511030429.GD9704@styx.iucha.org> <37180AD1-3747-4817-B395-3E2A99C76A73@me.com> <20110511130500.GG9704@styx.iucha.org> <20110511141543.GH9704@styx.iucha.org> <17FAE265-DF7D-45F2-B461-9B0B7FB4613E@me.com> Message-ID: On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:29 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > On May 11, 2011, at 9:15 AM, Florin Iucha wrote: > > > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 08:16:47AM -0500, Ryan Coleman wrote: > >>> Now, this is not necessary a bad thing - this is how Skype makes money > >>> and can keep its services discounted to clients and profitable to the > >>> shareholders. As long as you know and you agree, all is fine. The > >>> trouble is when Skype consumes more resources that one expects. > >> > >> Except that they have yet to turn a true profit :) > > > > How does $6bn sound? > > Well, ok... on the sale, but not as a business model. > > For a lot of tech companies, getting purchased *is* the business model. :) -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Wed May 11 09:39:52 2011 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 09:39:52 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Microsoft Buys Skype In-Reply-To: References: <4DC93C7A.90409@umn.edu> <20110511030429.GD9704@styx.iucha.org> <37180AD1-3747-4817-B395-3E2A99C76A73@me.com> <20110511130500.GG9704@styx.iucha.org> <20110511141543.GH9704@styx.iucha.org> <17FAE265-DF7D-45F2-B461-9B0B7FB4613E@me.com> Message-ID: On May 11, 2011, at 9:32 AM, Robert Nesius wrote: > > > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:29 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > On May 11, 2011, at 9:15 AM, Florin Iucha wrote: > > > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 08:16:47AM -0500, Ryan Coleman wrote: > >>> Now, this is not necessary a bad thing - this is how Skype makes money > >>> and can keep its services discounted to clients and profitable to the > >>> shareholders. As long as you know and you agree, all is fine. The > >>> trouble is when Skype consumes more resources that one expects. > >> > >> Except that they have yet to turn a true profit :) > > > > How does $6bn sound? > > Well, ok... on the sale, but not as a business model. > > > For a lot of tech companies, getting purchased is the business model. :) Touch? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From galanolwe at yahoo.com Wed May 11 09:54:43 2011 From: galanolwe at yahoo.com (Olwe Bottorff) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 07:54:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-, Open Software-friendly tablet? In-Reply-To: <20110511130500.GG9704@styx.iucha.org> Message-ID: <796673.67085.qm@web161613.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I might be in the market for a tablet. Mainly, being able to lounge around with a tablet while working through that backlog of comp-sci theory PDFs is very tempting. ;-) What's the best for the Linux/GNU/OS fan? WWRMSD? What would RMS do/buy? I'd like it to run some form of Heaven (Emacs) and be able to do PDFs. Any other similarities to my Ubuntu 10.04 world would be welcome. I've looked around -- YouTube has some amazing presentations. But I'd like to get your opinions before taking the plunge and going down to the blood bank for the next month or two. OlweGM,MN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From justin.kremer at gmail.com Wed May 11 10:06:54 2011 From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:06:54 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-, Open Software-friendly tablet? In-Reply-To: <796673.67085.qm@web161613.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <20110511130500.GG9704@styx.iucha.org> <796673.67085.qm@web161613.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > I might be in the market for a tablet. Mainly, being able to lounge around > with a tablet while working through that backlog of comp-sci theory PDFs is > very tempting. ;-) What's the best for the Linux/GNU/OS fan? WWRMSD? What > would RMS do/buy? I'd like it to run some form of Heaven (Emacs) and be able > to do PDFs. Any other similarities to my Ubuntu 10.04 world would be > welcome. I haven't tried it myself, but apparently it is possible to run Ubuntu on a Nook Color. Probably some others, too. The NC is a very hackable little device. Not insanely powerful, but not bad. http://www.xda-developers.com/android/nook-color-gets-ubuntu/ You may want something more like a convertible laptop, though...I can't imagine Emacs would be pleasant to use on tablet keyboards I've used. - Justin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eminmn at sysmatrix.net Wed May 11 10:15:03 2011 From: eminmn at sysmatrix.net (e.c.) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:15:03 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-, Open Software-friendly tablet? In-Reply-To: <796673.67085.qm@web161613.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <20110511130500.GG9704@styx.iucha.org> <796673.67085.qm@web161613.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I like that wwrmsd. Shades of Saint Ignutius! I don't think he would have any use for what is essentially a netbook with no keyboard. Instead of trying to cure his qwerty induced rsi with the help of touchscreen gestures, I would recommend a modified space cadet keyboard with dvorak layout, split spacebar, and all mod keys on the bottom row thusly: hyper, super, alt, ctl, shift, backspace, space, shift, ctl, alt, super, hyper It might also be useful to swap CapsLock and backslash for more convenient typing of .tex files. Such a keyboard (hardware after all, not software) is a perfect example of a possible gpl patent rather than copyleft. Ed On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > I might be in the market for a tablet. Mainly, being able to lounge around > with a tablet while working through that backlog of comp-sci theory PDFs is > very tempting. ;-) What's the best for the Linux/GNU/OS fan? WWRMSD? What > would RMS do/buy? I'd like it to run some form of Heaven (Emacs) and be able > to do PDFs. Any other similarities to my Ubuntu 10.04 world would be > welcome. I've looked around -- YouTube has some amazing presentations. But > I'd like to get your opinions before taking the plunge and going down to the > blood bank for the next month or two. > > Olwe > GM,MN > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tonyyarusso at gmail.com Wed May 11 10:55:10 2011 From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:55:10 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-, Open Software-friendly tablet? In-Reply-To: References: <20110511130500.GG9704@styx.iucha.org> <796673.67085.qm@web161613.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I too am looking for a good tablet running Ubuntu, and while we're just beginning to see some so-so stuff on the market now, I'm told that more will be coming out soon - probably Q3/Q4 2011. There's a guy on IRC who does Ubuntu on ARM development that I've told to let me know when there's something worth buying. :) - Tony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From galanolwe at yahoo.com Wed May 11 11:04:56 2011 From: galanolwe at yahoo.com (Olwe Bottorff) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 09:04:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-, Open Software-friendly tablet? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <100385.58141.qm@web161605.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Just saw a forum post saying the Nook Color is totally USB external device-phobic. Not good. --- On Wed, 5/11/11, Tony Yarusso wrote: From: Tony Yarusso Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Linux-, Open Software-friendly tablet? To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Date: Wednesday, May 11, 2011, 10:55 AM I too am looking for a good tablet running Ubuntu, and while we're just beginning to see some so-so stuff on the market now, I'm told that more will be coming out soon - probably Q3/Q4 2011.? There's a guy on IRC who does Ubuntu on ARM development that I've told to let me know when there's something worth buying.? :) ?- Tony -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian at ropers-huilman.net Wed May 11 11:10:34 2011 From: brian at ropers-huilman.net (Brian D. Ropers-Huilman) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 11:10:34 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-, Open Software-friendly tablet? In-Reply-To: <100385.58141.qm@web161605.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <100385.58141.qm@web161605.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I know nothing more about it than what this review talks about (and shows in videos), but have you looked into the Asus EeePad Transformer: http://www.androidcentral.com/asus-eeepad-transformer-review I have to believe someone's hacked it or soon will. I've had my eyes on it even though it only runs Android by default... -- Brian D. Ropers-Huilman 612.234.7778 (m) From admin at lctn.org Wed May 11 12:11:07 2011 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 12:11:07 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] problem getting snmp info Message-ID: <4DCAC32B.5090104@lctn.org> I am trying to set up mrtg to monitor an HP Procurve 2919al switch that has a couple vlans on it. I can ping the vlan 1 ip 10.0.1.1, but cfgmaker willmar at 10.0.1.1 -output=config times out, as well as snmpwalk -v 1, 2c, and 3 10.0.1.1 I have removed the snmp community (willmar) and recreated it as unrestricted, but nothing seems to work. Other Procurve switches work fine that are setup the same way. Any ideas? -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From random at argle.org Wed May 11 12:15:47 2011 From: random at argle.org (Daniel Taylor) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 12:15:47 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] problem getting snmp info In-Reply-To: <4DCAC32B.5090104@lctn.org> References: <4DCAC32B.5090104@lctn.org> Message-ID: <4DCAC443.4020101@argle.org> On 05/11/2011 12:11 PM, Raymond Norton wrote: > I am trying to set up mrtg to monitor an HPProcurve > 2919al > switch that has a couple vlans on it. I can ping the vlan 1 ip 10.0.1.1, > but cfgmaker willmar at 10.0.1.1 -output=config > times out, as well as snmpwalk -v 1, 2c, and 3 10.0.1.1 > Can you check to see if UDP-161 is being filtered? -- Dan From admin at lctn.org Wed May 11 12:21:10 2011 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 12:21:10 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] problem getting snmp info In-Reply-To: <4DCAC443.4020101@argle.org> References: <4DCAC32B.5090104@lctn.org> <4DCAC443.4020101@argle.org> Message-ID: <4DCAC586.5070301@lctn.org> The switch and server are only separated by another layer 3 switch/router. Could there be filtering then ?? The same server can poll other local switches. Do you know of a command I can issue on the switch itself to be sure the community string is working? On 05/11/2011 12:15 PM, Daniel Taylor wrote: > On 05/11/2011 12:11 PM, Raymond Norton wrote: >> I am trying to set up mrtg to monitor an HPProcurve >> 2919al >> switch that has a couple vlans on it. I can ping the vlan 1 ip 10.0.1.1, >> but cfgmaker willmar at 10.0.1.1 -output=config >> times out, as well as snmpwalk -v 1, 2c, and 3 10.0.1.1 >> > Can you check to see if UDP-161 is being filtered? > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From random at argle.org Wed May 11 12:26:58 2011 From: random at argle.org (Daniel Taylor) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 12:26:58 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] problem getting snmp info In-Reply-To: <4DCAC586.5070301@lctn.org> References: <4DCAC32B.5090104@lctn.org> <4DCAC443.4020101@argle.org> <4DCAC586.5070301@lctn.org> Message-ID: <4DCAC6E2.7090200@argle.org> On 05/11/2011 12:21 PM, Raymond Norton wrote: > The switch and server are only separated by another layer 3 > switch/router. Could there be filtering then ?? The same server can poll > other local switches. Do you know of a command I can issue on the switch > itself to be sure the community string is working? > Given that, the most likely possibility is that while you have the SNMP community configured, access on the switch to SNMP is still globally disabled. It would take me quite a while to find a better answer than that, so good luck. > > > On 05/11/2011 12:15 PM, Daniel Taylor wrote: >> On 05/11/2011 12:11 PM, Raymond Norton wrote: >>> I am trying to set up mrtg to monitor an HPProcurve >>> 2919al >>> switch that has a couple vlans on it. I can ping the vlan 1 ip 10.0.1.1, >>> but cfgmaker willmar at 10.0.1.1 -output=config >>> times out, as well as snmpwalk -v 1, 2c, and 3 10.0.1.1 >>> >> Can you check to see if UDP-161 is being filtered? >> > -- Dan From jeremy at lizakowski.com Tue May 10 08:43:29 2011 From: jeremy at lizakowski.com (jeremy at lizakowski.com) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 13:43:29 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Microsoft Buys Skype In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <982437658-1305035008-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1045684754-@bda652.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> So Microsoft wants to be a communications company? Investing in Facebook was brilliant judo against google. But being against competitors isn't a viable long term business model. To succeed, Microsoft should divest into a series of smaller companies, and try grow again. Instead, I bet they buy Twitter. Much like Skype, It could be integrated with Outlook and the Xbox. Jeremy Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Rieff Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 08:13:27 To: TCLUG Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: [tclug-list] Microsoft Buys Skype _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From GSkerbitz at gmail.com Tue May 10 11:47:07 2011 From: GSkerbitz at gmail.com (Gerry) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 11:47:07 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Microsoft Buys Skype In-Reply-To: <4DC93B4C.3090802@comcast.net> References: <4DC93B4C.3090802@comcast.net> Message-ID: Did thelinux skype install really bundl google chrome?? I'd never noticed that... On Tue, 10 May 2011, Timothy Aanerud wrote: > On the plus side of this transaction, the skype installer will stop bundling Google chrome. > -- > Timothy > > On 5/10/2011 8:13 AM, Thomas Rieff wrote: > TCLUG, > It was in the news today, see article below, that Microsoft has purchased Skype. > Being that Skype has gone to the Dark Side :-), Is there another video conferencing > alternative to Skype that could be used??? Linux based. Server Based??? > Tom -- -- Gerry Skerbitz gsker at skerbitz.org -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jeremy at lizakowski.com Wed May 11 09:29:12 2011 From: jeremy at lizakowski.com (jeremy at lizakowski.com) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 14:29:12 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Microsoft Buys Skype In-Reply-To: <20110511030429.GD9704@styx.iucha.org> References: <4DC93C7A.90409@umn.edu><20110511030429.GD9704@styx.iucha.org> Message-ID: <693371437-1305124155-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1100033465-@bda652.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> They might spend some money on software development too. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Florin Iucha Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 22:04:29 To: TCLUG Mailing List Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Microsoft Buys Skype _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From galanolwe at yahoo.com Wed May 11 14:37:28 2011 From: galanolwe at yahoo.com (Olwe Bottorff) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 12:37:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-, Open Software-friendly tablet? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <786781.20888.qm@web161602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> eepad so close.... My dream has actually been my dream for very long time, i.e., the basic iMac setup: nice tablet (screen/cpu combo) with mouse and keyboard separate. I've actually known people who use their baby iMac as a portable just for these reasons. Clamshell laptops are an ergomatic nightmare, IMHO. Again, the dream: nice tablet you could prop up anywhere you like with the ability to jack in a mouse and regular keyboard. The silly ee pad makes you buy their *attached* keyboard ($230. extra!) and it attaches to the tablet making it (IMHO) a torture device (aka notebook). So ironic on the ee ppaadd that you'd have to get their keyboard to jack your own in (only their keyboard has the usb ports). Aaaagh. But hey, if anyone's heard of a nice tablet that allows my dream to come true, let us know. I can't be the only dreamer.... --- On Wed, 5/11/11, Brian D. Ropers-Huilman wrote: From: Brian D. Ropers-Huilman Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Linux-, Open Software-friendly tablet? To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Date: Wednesday, May 11, 2011, 11:10 AM I know nothing more about it than what this review talks about (and shows in videos), but have you looked into the Asus EeePad Transformer: http://www.androidcentral.com/asus-eeepad-transformer-review I have to believe someone's hacked it or soon will. I've had my eyes on it even though it only runs Android by default... -- Brian D. Ropers-Huilman 612.234.7778 (m) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From galanolwe at yahoo.com Wed May 11 14:48:19 2011 From: galanolwe at yahoo.com (Olwe Bottorff) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 12:48:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-, Open Software-friendly tablet? In-Reply-To: <786781.20888.qm@web161602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <458406.13785.qm@web161619.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Correction: I think the XOOM would allow this, but it doesn't look too healthy yet using everyday USB equipments. --- On Wed, 5/11/11, Olwe Bottorff wrote: From: Olwe Bottorff Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Linux-, Open Software-friendly tablet? To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Date: Wednesday, May 11, 2011, 2:37 PM eepad so close.... My dream has actually been my dream for very long time, i.e., the basic iMac setup: nice tablet (screen/cpu combo) with mouse and keyboard separate. I've actually known people who use their baby iMac as a portable just for these reasons. Clamshell laptops are an ergomatic nightmare, IMHO. Again, the dream: nice tablet you could prop up anywhere you like with the ability to jack in a mouse and regular keyboard. The silly ee pad makes you buy their *attached* keyboard ($230. extra!) and it attaches to the tablet making it (IMHO) a torture device (aka notebook). So ironic on the ee ppaadd that you'd have to get their keyboard to jack your own in (only their keyboard has the usb ports). Aaaagh. But hey, if anyone's heard of a nice tablet that allows my dream to come true, let us know. I can't be the only dreamer.... --- On Wed, 5/11/11, Brian D. Ropers-Huilman wrote: From: Brian D. Ropers-Huilman Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Linux-, Open Software-friendly tablet? To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Date: Wednesday, May 11, 2011, 11:10 AM I know nothing more about it than what this review talks about (and shows in videos), but have you looked into the Asus EeePad Transformer: http://www.androidcentral.com/asus-eeepad-transformer-review I have to believe someone's hacked it or soon will. I've had my eyes on it even though it only runs Android by default... -- Brian D. Ropers-Huilman 612.234.7778 (m) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com Thu May 12 14:46:05 2011 From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 14:46:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] looking for an old monitor Message-ID: Any thing will do. I'm trying to help a friend get a computer set up and at least get him into the 90's. ,Ron -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mastercactapus at gmail.com Thu May 12 14:49:42 2011 From: mastercactapus at gmail.com (Nathan Caza) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 14:49:42 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] looking for an old monitor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have an old crt taking up space. On May 12, 2011 2:46 PM, "r j" wrote: Any thing will do. I'm trying to help a friend get a computer set up and at least get him into the 90's. ,Ron _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From squack at gmail.com Thu May 12 15:00:38 2011 From: squack at gmail.com (William) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 15:00:38 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] looking for an old monitor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have a Dell 19" and a sony 17' On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 2:46 PM, r j wrote: > Any thing will do. I'm trying to help a friend get a computer set up and at > least get him into the 90's. > ,Ron > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark.katerberg at gmail.com Thu May 12 15:04:32 2011 From: mark.katerberg at gmail.com (mark.katerberg at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 15:04:32 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] looking for an old monitor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1b1c0f3a-b0be-48f0-ac99-95f16b7b7abb@email.android.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 r j wrote: >Any thing will do. I'm trying to help a friend get a computer set up >and at >least get him into the 90's. >,Ron >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list at mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list I have one downtown that I got off this very list. Big CRT, but it's yours if you want it -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: APG v1.0.8 iQFHBAEBCAAxBQJNzD1QKhxNYXJrIEthdGVyYmVyZyA8bWFyay5rYXRlcmJlcmdA Z21haWwuY29tPgAKCRARdikJk4Hr169RCACpNNWtv4aVJ+P/HTZZq35EyIGdIKj9 IB89zINa+eqj1QlT9y8X/GudAisxib/5yJDsdU+J76/c9DfR02k/P0zu76Tjtr4N G3+KQVcIZlQ6S44wSpr20/3DLoEDR7C7J3/28/4UfxG+IQqfBLtE39DIxrr/A8R+ WRc7Rx8Gjhc32h2ORJVWiydWG9gPIEXF5/fsSVqLcd3d7K4YdVGBbcSooe6HNYpt 0P/Kvrr1o/5+mA3IlJMuUGNVhYRh10mAsqlET/sknu/x6D6+kwGmhr/uaQ3u1lD5 QGyRdwRmyxNlTv+5mdueF36+qKNKbJyjkshCbv7DISjGFuA8IKxmljPv =W37y -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From wdtj at yahoo.com Thu May 12 16:09:18 2011 From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 14:09:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] looking for an old monitor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <740128.13956.qm@web162012.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I have a garage full. My son picked up a pile from a client with the hopes of selling them. Been collecting dust since. --- Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those 3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, (612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis ________________________________ From: r j To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Sent: Thu, May 12, 2011 2:46:05 PM Subject: [tclug-list] looking for an old monitor Any thing will do. I'm trying to help a friend get a computer set up and at least get him into the 90's. ,Ron -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From samael.anon at gmail.com Thu May 12 18:30:32 2011 From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 18:30:32 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] looking for an old monitor In-Reply-To: <740128.13956.qm@web162012.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <740128.13956.qm@web162012.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: i am in uptown minneapolis and have one. On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 4:09 PM, Wayne Johnson wrote: > I have a garage full. My son picked up a pile from a client with the hopes > of selling them. Been collecting dust since. > > --- > Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those > 3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," > Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, > (612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* r j > *To:* tclug-list at mn-linux.org > *Sent:* Thu, May 12, 2011 2:46:05 PM > *Subject:* [tclug-list] looking for an old monitor > > Any thing will do. I'm trying to help a friend get a computer set up and at > least get him into the 90's. > ,Ron > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com Thu May 12 18:57:24 2011 From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 18:57:24 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 77, Issue 16 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yaron Is hooking me up with an lcd, Thank you all for the replies ! ,Ron On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 6:30 PM, wrote: > Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. looking for an old monitor (r j) > 2. Re: looking for an old monitor (Nathan Caza) > 3. Re: looking for an old monitor (William) > 4. Re: looking for an old monitor (mark.katerberg at gmail.com) > 5. Re: looking for an old monitor (Wayne Johnson) > 6. Re: looking for an old monitor (Samael) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 14:46:05 -0500 > From: r j > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: [tclug-list] looking for an old monitor > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Any thing will do. I'm trying to help a friend get a computer set up and at > least get him into the 90's. > ,Ron > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110512/be7b4716/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 14:49:42 -0500 > From: Nathan Caza > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] looking for an old monitor > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I have an old crt taking up space. > > On May 12, 2011 2:46 PM, "r j" wrote: > > Any thing will do. I'm trying to help a friend get a computer set up and at > least get him into the 90's. > ,Ron > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110512/77762a22/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 15:00:38 -0500 > From: William > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] looking for an old monitor > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I have a Dell 19" and a sony 17' > > > > > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 2:46 PM, r j wrote: > > > Any thing will do. I'm trying to help a friend get a computer set up and > at > > least get him into the 90's. > > ,Ron > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110512/6e961b9d/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 15:04:32 -0500 > From: "mark.katerberg at gmail.com" > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] looking for an old monitor > Message-ID: <1b1c0f3a-b0be-48f0-ac99-95f16b7b7abb at email.android.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA256 > > r j wrote: > > >Any thing will do. I'm trying to help a friend get a computer set up > >and at > >least get him into the 90's. > >,Ron > >_______________________________________________ > >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > I have one downtown that I got off this very list. Big CRT, but it's yours > if you want it > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: APG v1.0.8 > > iQFHBAEBCAAxBQJNzD1QKhxNYXJrIEthdGVyYmVyZyA8bWFyay5rYXRlcmJlcmdA > Z21haWwuY29tPgAKCRARdikJk4Hr169RCACpNNWtv4aVJ+P/HTZZq35EyIGdIKj9 > IB89zINa+eqj1QlT9y8X/GudAisxib/5yJDsdU+J76/c9DfR02k/P0zu76Tjtr4N > G3+KQVcIZlQ6S44wSpr20/3DLoEDR7C7J3/28/4UfxG+IQqfBLtE39DIxrr/A8R+ > WRc7Rx8Gjhc32h2ORJVWiydWG9gPIEXF5/fsSVqLcd3d7K4YdVGBbcSooe6HNYpt > 0P/Kvrr1o/5+mA3IlJMuUGNVhYRh10mAsqlET/sknu/x6D6+kwGmhr/uaQ3u1lD5 > QGyRdwRmyxNlTv+5mdueF36+qKNKbJyjkshCbv7DISjGFuA8IKxmljPv > =W37y > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 14:09:18 -0700 (PDT) > From: Wayne Johnson > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] looking for an old monitor > Message-ID: <740128.13956.qm at web162012.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I have a garage full. My son picked up a pile from a client with the hopes > of > selling them. Been collecting dust since. > > --- > Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: > Those > 3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," > Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, > (612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. > Lewis > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: r j > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Sent: Thu, May 12, 2011 2:46:05 PM > Subject: [tclug-list] looking for an old monitor > > Any thing will do. I'm trying to help a friend get a computer set up and at > least get him into the 90's. > ,Ron > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110512/bb8844b2/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 18:30:32 -0500 > From: Samael > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] looking for an old monitor > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > i am in uptown minneapolis and have one. > > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 4:09 PM, Wayne Johnson wrote: > > > I have a garage full. My son picked up a pile from a client with the > hopes > > of selling them. Been collecting dust since. > > > > --- > > Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those > > 3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," > > Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, > > (612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* r j > > *To:* tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > *Sent:* Thu, May 12, 2011 2:46:05 PM > > *Subject:* [tclug-list] looking for an old monitor > > > > Any thing will do. I'm trying to help a friend get a computer set up and > at > > least get him into the 90's. > > ,Ron > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110512/8de19fda/attachment.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 77, Issue 16 > ****************************************** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elhaddi at enduradata.com Thu May 12 18:59:08 2011 From: elhaddi at enduradata.com (A. A. EL HADDI) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 23:59:08 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] looking for an old monitor In-Reply-To: References: <740128.13956.qm@web162012.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <117608979-1305244702-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1359748218-@bda877.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Ok! I have a couple 21 in view sonic mon. Please please take mine ;) Elhaddi www.enduradata.com -- cross platform replication -----Original Message----- From: Samael Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 18:30:32 To: TCLUG Mailing List Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] looking for an old monitor _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com Fri May 13 15:58:30 2011 From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 15:58:30 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Swift Linux 0.1.0 is now available! Message-ID: <20110513155830.c772374f.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Swift Linux 0.1.0 is now available at http://www.swiftlinux.org and based on the new antiX Linux M11. There are two plain vanilla editions (Diet Swift Linux and Regular Swift Linux) and four special editions (Taylor Swift Linux, iCarly Swift Linux, Magnum P.I. Swift Linux, and NASCAR Swift Linux). Swift Linux is lightweight, fully compatible with the large Debian software repository, and user-friendly. No other distro can compete with Swift Linux on all three of these criteria. If you wish that Puppy Linux had a large software repository, or if you wish that Linux Mint could be as lightweight as Puppy Linux, then this is the distro for you. Swift Linux gives that old computer a new lease on life! Windows XP support ends on April 8, 2014. Instead of spending hundreds of dollars on a new computer or slowing down your old computer with a costly and bloated "upgrade", make the REAL UPGRADE to Swift Linux. P.S. Swift Linux NEEDS more developers! The version control system is GitHub (https://github.com/swiftlinux), and the bug/goal tracker is Launchpad.net (https://launchpad.net/swiftlinux). Developers who have worked on any of the following distros are especially appreciated: Linux Mint (very successful track record and user-friendly) Puppy Linux (very lightweight and user-friendly) antiX Linux (parent distro of Swift Linux) -- Jason Hsu From tclug at freakzilla.com Fri May 13 16:16:48 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 16:16:48 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Swift Linux 0.1.0 is now available! In-Reply-To: <20110513155830.c772374f.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> References: <20110513155830.c772374f.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 May 2011, Jason Hsu wrote: > There are two plain vanilla editions [...] and four special editions If you have twice as many special editions as regular editions, doesn't that make the regular editions the special ones? -- From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com Fri May 13 16:24:14 2011 From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 16:24:14 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Swift Linux 0.1.0 is now available! In-Reply-To: References: <20110513155830.c772374f.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: <20110513162414.397a04a7.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> On Fri, 13 May 2011 16:16:48 -0500 (CDT) Yaron wrote: > On Fri, 13 May 2011, Jason Hsu wrote: > > > There are two plain vanilla editions [...] and four special editions > > If you have twice as many special editions as regular editions, doesn't > that make the regular editions the special ones? > The special editions are based on the regular edition. -- Jason Hsu From sapiensantiquus at gmail.com Fri May 13 16:26:05 2011 From: sapiensantiquus at gmail.com (Andrew Johnson) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 16:26:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Swift Linux 0.1.0 is now available! In-Reply-To: References: <20110513155830.c772374f.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: lol On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 4:16 PM, Yaron wrote: > On Fri, 13 May 2011, Jason Hsu wrote: > > There are two plain vanilla editions [...] and four special editions >> > > If you have twice as many special editions as regular editions, doesn't > that make the regular editions the special ones? > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com Fri May 13 16:27:25 2011 From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 16:27:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] What pop culture is popular among Linux geeks? Message-ID: <20110513162725.ccceeba4.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> What pop culture is very popular among Linux geeks? I'm looking for more ideas for special editions, and I'd like to create a special edition that would really appeal to other Linux geeks. I wouldn't expect Taylor Swift, _iCarly_, _Magnum P.I._, or NASCAR to appeal to that many of my fellow Linux geeks. How popular is Star Trek among Linux geeks? Star Wars? Dr. Who? Anything else? -- Jason Hsu From tclug at freakzilla.com Fri May 13 16:28:17 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 16:28:17 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] What pop culture is popular among Linux geeks? In-Reply-To: <20110513162725.ccceeba4.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> References: <20110513162725.ccceeba4.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: TARDIS EDITION!!! If you delete a file you can GO BACK IN TIME and get it back! No wait, that would cross your own time line. Ok, just make it all blue then. On Fri, 13 May 2011, Jason Hsu wrote: > What pop culture is very popular among Linux geeks? I'm looking for more ideas for special editions, and I'd like to create a special edition that would really appeal to other Linux geeks. I wouldn't expect Taylor Swift, _iCarly_, _Magnum P.I._, or NASCAR to appeal to that many of my fellow Linux geeks. > > How popular is Star Trek among Linux geeks? Star Wars? Dr. Who? Anything else? > > -- > Jason Hsu > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com Fri May 13 16:40:21 2011 From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 16:40:21 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] What pop culture is popular among Linux geeks? In-Reply-To: <20110513162725.ccceeba4.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> References: <20110513162725.ccceeba4.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: A few of the geek characters in Office Space liked Tupac Shakur.... I think geek pop culture tastes are really hard to pin down; we all have our different subcultures. I will say Taylor Swift was a good attempt, almost everyone will either like her music or appearance- or both. -- Jeremy MountainJohnson Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 4:27 PM, Jason Hsu wrote: > > What pop culture is very popular among Linux geeks? ?I'm looking for more ideas for special editions, and I'd like to create a special edition that would really appeal to other Linux geeks. ?I wouldn't expect Taylor Swift, _iCarly_, _Magnum P.I._, or NASCAR to appeal to that many of my fellow Linux geeks. > > How popular is Star Trek among Linux geeks? ?Star Wars? ?Dr. Who? ?Anything else? > > -- > Jason Hsu > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nesius at gmail.com Fri May 13 17:03:37 2011 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 17:03:37 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] What pop culture is popular among Linux geeks? In-Reply-To: References: <20110513162725.ccceeba4.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Yaron wrote: > TARDIS EDITION!!! If you delete a file you can GO BACK IN TIME and get it > back! > > It's bigger on the inside... -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mastercactapus at gmail.com Fri May 13 17:06:55 2011 From: mastercactapus at gmail.com (Nathan Caza) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 17:06:55 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] What pop culture is popular among Linux geeks? In-Reply-To: References: <20110513162725.ccceeba4.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: Hitchhikers edition. Ship a towel with every 42nd cd/dvd order On May 13, 2011 5:03 PM, "Robert Nesius" wrote: On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Yaron wrote: > > TARDIS EDITION!!! If you de... It's bigger on the inside... -Rob _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Fri May 13 17:36:08 2011 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 17:36:08 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Swift Linux 0.1.0 is now available! Message-ID: >Swift Linux gives that old computer a new lease on life! Windows XP support ends on April 8, 2014. Instead of spending hundreds of dollars on a new computer or slowing down > your old computer with a costly and bloated "upgrade", make the REAL UPGRADE to Swift Linux. I heard from someone this week how they had replaced Vista with Linux on a laptop and they were much happier with the performance. > What pop culture is very popular among Linux geeks? I'm looking for more > ideas for special editions, and I'd like to create a special edition that would really > appeal to other Linux geeks. I wouldn't expect Taylor Swift, _iCarly_, _Magnum P.I._, > or NASCAR to appeal to that many of my fellow Linux geeks. I thnk NASCAR mainly appeals to tire companies. I'm not sure if this is popular among Linux users, but I like it: http://comics.com/get_fuzzy?DateAfter=2011-05-06&DateBefore=2011-05-13&Order=&PerPage=10&x=22&y=12&Search= -- Brian Wood http://webEbenezer.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Fri May 13 18:31:12 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 18:31:12 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] What pop culture is popular among Linux geeks? In-Reply-To: References: <20110513162725.ccceeba4.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: > TARDIS EDITION!!! > > It's bigger on the inside... > Oooh, filesystem compression. WE CAN DO THIS!!! -- From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri May 13 19:00:26 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 19:00:26 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] What pop culture is popular among Linux geeks? In-Reply-To: References: <20110513162725.ccceeba4.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 May 2011, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote: > On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 4:27 PM, Jason Hsu > wrote: > >> What pop culture is very popular among Linux geeks? ?I'm looking for >> more ideas for special editions, and I'd like to create a special >> edition that would really appeal to other Linux geeks. ?I wouldn't >> expect Taylor Swift, _iCarly_, _Magnum P.I._, or NASCAR to appeal to >> that many of my fellow Linux geeks. >> >> How popular is Star Trek among Linux geeks? ?Star Wars? ?Dr. Who? >>?Anything else? > > > I will say Taylor Swift was a good attempt, almost everyone will either > like her music or appearance- or both. But he was saying that he thought we would *not* like Taylor Swift. I don't like her music, but now the she is 21 years old I guess it's OK to admit that she looks pretty good even though I'm probably older than her dad. ;-) Obviously, a lot of the Linux Geek types like scifi/fantasy in films and books, at least more than the average person, but we probably don't want to be stereotyped. I would add LoTR to your suggestions of Star Trek and Star Wars. Probably Battlestar Galactica? I never watched it much but thought it was well-liked. There are certain movies that are popular with computer people, like Blade Runner. I liked A.I., too. Do a lot of people here also like Steam Punk? Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri May 13 19:07:06 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 19:07:06 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Swift Linux 0.1.0 is now available! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 13 May 2011, Brian Wood wrote: > I'm not sure if this is popular among Linux users, but I like it: > > http://comics.com/get_fuzzy?DateAfter=2011-05-06&DateBefore=2011-05-13&Order=&PerPage=10&x=22&y=12&Search= XKCD (xkcd.com) seems popular with the Geek crowd. Maybe theoatmeal.com Mike From djsteinhafel at gmail.com Fri May 13 19:16:07 2011 From: djsteinhafel at gmail.com (djsteinhafel at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 19:16:07 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] What pop culture is popular among Linux geeks? In-Reply-To: <20110513162725.ccceeba4.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> References: <20110513162725.ccceeba4.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: Futurama and the Flying Spaghetthi Monster On Fri, 13 May 2011, Jason Hsu wrote: > What pop culture is very popular among Linux geeks? I'm looking for more ideas for special editions, and I'd like to create a special edition that would really appeal to other Linux geeks. I wouldn't expect Taylor Swift, _iCarly_, _Magnum P.I._, or NASCAR to appeal to that many of my fellow Linux geeks. > > How popular is Star Trek among Linux geeks? Star Wars? Dr. Who? Anything else? > > -- > Jason Hsu > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From ryanjcole at me.com Fri May 13 21:14:16 2011 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 21:14:16 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] What pop culture is popular among Linux geeks? In-Reply-To: References: <20110513162725.ccceeba4.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: Big Bang Theory, Dr. Who... That's about it for me in a "pop culture" that might be tech-like. Fringe is interesting, but not that much of a meme. On May 13, 2011, at 7:16 PM, djsteinhafel at gmail.com wrote: > Futurama and the Flying Spaghetthi Monster > > On Fri, 13 May 2011, Jason Hsu wrote: > >> What pop culture is very popular among Linux geeks? I'm looking for more ideas for special editions, and I'd like to create a special edition that would really appeal to other Linux geeks. I wouldn't expect Taylor Swift, _iCarly_, _Magnum P.I._, or NASCAR to appeal to that many of my fellow Linux geeks. >> >> How popular is Star Trek among Linux geeks? Star Wars? Dr. Who? Anything else? >> >> -- >> Jason Hsu >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cncole at earthlink.net Fri May 13 21:21:44 2011 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 21:21:44 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] What pop culture is popular among Linux geeks? In-Reply-To: <20110513162725.ccceeba4.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jason Hsu > > What pop culture is very popular among Linux geeks? I'm looking for more ideas for special editions, and I'd like to > create a special edition that would really appeal to other Linux geeks. I wouldn't expect Taylor Swift, _iCarly_, > _Magnum P.I._, or NASCAR to appeal to that many of my fellow Linux geeks. > > How popular is Star Trek among Linux geeks? Star Wars? Dr. Who? Anything else? > This idea seems to defeat the claims of lean, swift, and useful. Although I like those and have collected most of the series albums, having that show up in my Linux is very unappealing. Also, in my opinion, makes the distro look like a kiddie toy. When things were much more simple, and before the day of the PC, the CP/M operating system was open source and configurable by conditional macro assembly options (or in PL/M). One OS allowed great flexibility for differing environments. There are many structural differences in an OS for today, but the basic idea of one OS with user options for application or target specific differences seems better to me. Embeddeing the geekiness directly into the OS seems an inelegant contradiction to the KISS goals you stated. Chuck From danyberg at gmail.com Sat May 14 01:50:28 2011 From: danyberg at gmail.com (swede) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 01:50:28 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Tardis edition or Swift Linux Message-ID: ----------------- TARDIS EDITION!!! If you delete a file you can GO BACK IN TIME and get it back! No wait, that would cross your own time line. Ok, just make it all blue then. ----------------- If you do that, I'll install it. And so will my son and daughter. BTW- Dr. Who season 5 is now available on netflix. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Sat May 14 01:51:47 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 01:51:47 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Tardis edition or Swift Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 14 May 2011, swede wrote: > BTW- Dr. Who season 5 is now available on netflix. And season 6 is available in real life (; From samael.anon at gmail.com Sat May 14 07:15:14 2011 From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 07:15:14 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Tardis edition or Swift Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: is that why i have been feeling like i am falling through a wormhole while riding in a telephone booth lately? On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 1:51 AM, Yaron wrote: > On Sat, 14 May 2011, swede wrote: > > BTW- Dr. Who season 5 is now available on netflix. >> > > And season 6 is available in real life (; > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From florin at iucha.net Sat May 14 07:49:54 2011 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 07:49:54 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Tardis edition or Swift Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110514124954.GM9704@styx.iucha.org> On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 01:50:28AM -0500, swede wrote: > ----------------- > TARDIS EDITION!!! If you delete a file you can GO BACK IN TIME and get it > back! > > No wait, that would cross your own time line. > > Ok, just make it all blue then. > ----------------- > > If you do that, I'll install it. And so will my son and daughter. I don't know about making it blue, but you can do "automatic" recoveries. Just get a handful of big hard drives (2TB are ~$80 nowadays) and set them up in a RAID, using BTRFS as a file system. Then set up a cron job to take automatic snapshots every hour, and another one to merge/coalesce hourly snapshots older than one month, leaving the midnight/4AM snapshot in place. When you want to see how your file system looked last week, just mount the appropriate snapshot. It is not 100% enterprise ready, but the functionality is all there. Cheers, florin -- Don't question authority! They don't know either. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gsker at skerbitz.org Sat May 14 09:35:32 2011 From: gsker at skerbitz.org (Gerry) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 09:35:32 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Tardis edition or Swift Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 14 May 2011, Yaron wrote: > On Sat, 14 May 2011, swede wrote: > >> BTW- Dr. Who season 5 is now available on netflix. > > And season 6 is available in real life (; And it's possible to get netflix on your rooted Color Nook. Yikes! http://www.androidcentral.com/netflix-rooted-nook-color-how Even though it's a Linux kernel and runs busybox, most of the actual operating environment is very non *nix. But it's as close as I've seen to getting netflix on a linux box. -- Gerry Skerbitz gsker at skerbitz.org From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com Sat May 14 13:51:50 2011 From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 13:51:50 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] swift Linux editions Message-ID: Jason I would second the Hitch Hikers edition. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sat May 14 14:28:09 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 14:28:09 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] filesystems for Linux/Mac/Win Message-ID: I'm looking for a filesystem that I can use on portable drives where it can do the following: (1) be readable (preferrably also writable) by Windows, Mac and Linux (2) be writable by Linux (3) handle large files adequately (e.g., 50-100 GB per file) (4) allow Linux file permissions to work correctly (5) preferrably allow symlinks to work, at least for Linux NTFS seems to mange my first three requirements, but no matter what I do, every file is set to executable on my Linux box. If I can't come up with a way to get 1-4, I'll just drop requirement 1. I might go with ext3 or ext4 and just hope that Windows and OS X can catch up. This looks like a good start: http://sourceforge.net/projects/ext2read/ http://alperakcan.org/?open=projects&project=fuse-ext2 What do you all think? Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sat May 14 14:29:49 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 14:29:49 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] filesystems for Linux/Mac/Win In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 14 May 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > I'm looking for a filesystem that I can use on portable drives where it > can do the following: > > (1) be readable (preferrably also writable) by Windows, Mac and Linux > > (2) be writable by Linux > > (3) handle large files adequately (e.g., 50-100 GB per file) > > (4) allow Linux file permissions to work correctly > > (5) preferrably allow symlinks to work, at least for Linux > > > NTFS seems to mange my first three requirements By the way, that was supposed to be "manage" not "mangle." ;-) Mike From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com Sat May 14 14:37:47 2011 From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 14:37:47 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Swift themes Message-ID: Maybe instead of making different editions you can include themes in a repository containing SteamPunk CyberPunk and futurist flavors. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sraun at fireopal.org Sat May 14 20:05:12 2011 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 20:05:12 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Any Ubuntu Wireless experts? Message-ID: <20110515010512.GB31721@fireopal.org> I've got a Dell Latitude D400 with what Ubuntu identifies as a Broadcom BCM4309 802.11a/b/g (rev 02), PCI ID = 14e4:4324 (rev 02) I've found a number of web pages that refer me to bw43-cutter. I install it and the related firmware package on my Natty Narwhal - but the wireless card is still down. I can get probes to admit it is there, but I can't get it talking. The card was known working under WinXP last weekend. Anyone willing to help me figure out what's going on here? I'm in South Minneapolis, I work in Plymouth M-F 8-5, I'm willing to travel a fair bit if needed. -- Scott Raun sraun at fireopal.org From sraun at fireopal.org Sat May 14 20:40:21 2011 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 20:40:21 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Any Ubuntu Wireless experts? In-Reply-To: <20110515010512.GB31721@fireopal.org> References: <20110515010512.GB31721@fireopal.org> Message-ID: <20110515014021.GA8945@fireopal.org> On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 08:05:12PM -0500, Scott Raun wrote: > I've got a Dell Latitude D400 with what Ubuntu identifies as a > Broadcom BCM4309 802.11a/b/g (rev 02), PCI ID = 14e4:4324 (rev 02) > > I've found a number of web pages that refer me to bw43-cutter. I > install it and the related firmware package on my Natty Narwhal - but > the wireless card is still down. I can get probes to admit it is > there, but I can't get it talking. > > The card was known working under WinXP last weekend. > > Anyone willing to help me figure out what's going on here? I'm in > South Minneapolis, I work in Plymouth M-F 8-5, I'm willing to travel a > fair bit if needed. More info: http://linuxwireless.org/en/users/Drivers/b43 says that PCI ID 14e4:4324 should be firmware-b43legacy-installer. I tried uninstalling firmware-b43-installer and installing the b43legacy - the b43legacy post-install scripts report 'no matching device installed'. I uninstalled b43legacy and went back to the plain b43 - the post-install scripts did not complain. -- Scott Raun sraun at fireopal.org From eric.schultz at mchsi.com Sat May 14 22:18:33 2011 From: eric.schultz at mchsi.com (Eric Schultz) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 22:18:33 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Any Ubuntu Wireless experts? In-Reply-To: <20110515010512.GB31721@fireopal.org> Message-ID: <1581991990.1357161305429513889.JavaMail.root@dsmdc-mail-mbs12> Go to dell support, Get your driver based upon your labtop and download it. Go to systems, additional drivers and search, it will install it automatically and it should work. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Raun" To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 8:05:12 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [tclug-list] Any Ubuntu Wireless experts? I've got a Dell Latitude D400 with what Ubuntu identifies as a Broadcom BCM4309 802.11a/b/g (rev 02), PCI ID = 14e4:4324 (rev 02) I've found a number of web pages that refer me to bw43-cutter. I install it and the related firmware package on my Natty Narwhal - but the wireless card is still down. I can get probes to admit it is there, but I can't get it talking. The card was known working under WinXP last weekend. Anyone willing to help me figure out what's going on here? I'm in South Minneapolis, I work in Plymouth M-F 8-5, I'm willing to travel a fair bit if needed. -- Scott Raun sraun at fireopal.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From eric.schultz at mchsi.com Sat May 14 22:20:41 2011 From: eric.schultz at mchsi.com (Eric Schultz) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 22:20:41 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Any Ubuntu Wireless experts? In-Reply-To: <20110515010512.GB31721@fireopal.org> Message-ID: <1029782334.1357301305429641960.JavaMail.root@dsmdc-mail-mbs12> Scott, if you have problems, email me directly, I can walk you through it or get you the drivers you need. With Ubuntu, you do not need to go through bw-cutter or b43. eric.schultz at mchsi.com Eric ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Raun" To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 8:05:12 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [tclug-list] Any Ubuntu Wireless experts? I've got a Dell Latitude D400 with what Ubuntu identifies as a Broadcom BCM4309 802.11a/b/g (rev 02), PCI ID = 14e4:4324 (rev 02) I've found a number of web pages that refer me to bw43-cutter. I install it and the related firmware package on my Natty Narwhal - but the wireless card is still down. I can get probes to admit it is there, but I can't get it talking. The card was known working under WinXP last weekend. Anyone willing to help me figure out what's going on here? I'm in South Minneapolis, I work in Plymouth M-F 8-5, I'm willing to travel a fair bit if needed. -- Scott Raun sraun at fireopal.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com Sun May 15 09:23:43 2011 From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 09:23:43 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Suggestions for Minnesota Swift Linux Message-ID: <20110515092343.c8f04b1b.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> For the next version of Swift Linux, I'm changing the lineup of special editions. I'm dropping the iCarly, Magnum P.I., and NASCAR editions, but I'm keeping the Taylor Swift edition. (This is SWIFT Linux.) I'm adding Chicago Swift Linux. I'm originally from the Chicago area, and I can relentlessly promote the Chicago edition to my friends on Facebook. The startup sound will be the legendary Harry Caray singing "Take Me Out to the Ball Game" in the 7th inning stretch. I'm also adding Minnesota Swift Linux. For the wallpapers, I'm picking the cherry in the sculpture garden and the Duluth lift bridge. I need help selecting a startup sound. Does Minnesota have a legendary figure as beloved as Harry Caray in Chicago? -- Jason Hsu From nesius at gmail.com Sun May 15 09:54:15 2011 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 09:54:15 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Suggestions for Minnesota Swift Linux In-Reply-To: <20110515092343.c8f04b1b.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> References: <20110515092343.c8f04b1b.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: Garrison keilor (sp?) is nationally known, but people seem to love or hate him. -Rob Sent from my iPhone On May 15, 2011, at 9:23 AM, Jason Hsu wrote: > For the next version of Swift Linux, I'm changing the lineup of special editions. I'm dropping the iCarly, Magnum P.I., and NASCAR editions, but I'm keeping the Taylor Swift edition. (This is SWIFT Linux.) > > I'm adding Chicago Swift Linux. I'm originally from the Chicago area, and I can relentlessly promote the Chicago edition to my friends on Facebook. The startup sound will be the legendary Harry Caray singing "Take Me Out to the Ball Game" in the 7th inning stretch. > > I'm also adding Minnesota Swift Linux. For the wallpapers, I'm picking the cherry in the sculpture garden and the Duluth lift bridge. I need help selecting a startup sound. Does Minnesota have a legendary figure as beloved as Harry Caray in Chicago? > > -- > Jason Hsu > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tlunde at gmail.com Sun May 15 12:55:50 2011 From: tlunde at gmail.com (Thomas Lunde) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 12:55:50 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Any Ubuntu Wireless experts? In-Reply-To: <1029782334.1357301305429641960.JavaMail.root@dsmdc-mail-mbs12> References: <1029782334.1357301305429641960.JavaMail.root@dsmdc-mail-mbs12> Message-ID: <481D0C5D-D5E8-4F59-88AA-FFBF1A48D6C3@gmail.com> Eric - If you have a solution, I'd love to see it on-list. I, too, have a laptop with a Broadcom wireless card that works under XP but which Natty isn't handling correctly. This card came in a HP laptop, not that that matters. I've used previous versions of Ubuntu, going back to Warty, and other laptops with Broadcom cards but haven't found a solution to this one yet. What information do you need? Thanks Thomas On May 14, 2011, at 10:20 PM, Eric Schultz wrote: > Scott, > > > if you have problems, email me directly, I can walk you through it or get you the drivers you need. With Ubuntu, you do not need to go through bw-cutter or b43. > > eric.schultz at mchsi.com > > Eric > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Raun" > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 8:05:12 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central > Subject: [tclug-list] Any Ubuntu Wireless experts? > > I've got a Dell Latitude D400 with what Ubuntu identifies as a > Broadcom BCM4309 802.11a/b/g (rev 02), PCI ID = 14e4:4324 (rev 02) > > I've found a number of web pages that refer me to bw43-cutter. I > install it and the related firmware package on my Natty Narwhal - but > the wireless card is still down. I can get probes to admit it is > there, but I can't get it talking. > > The card was known working under WinXP last weekend. > > Anyone willing to help me figure out what's going on here? I'm in > South Minneapolis, I work in Plymouth M-F 8-5, I'm willing to travel a > fair bit if needed. > > -- > Scott Raun > sraun at fireopal.org > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dean.Benjamin at mm.com Sun May 15 13:22:41 2011 From: Dean.Benjamin at mm.com (Dean.Benjamin at mm.com) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 13:22:41 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Suggestions for Minnesota Swift Linux In-Reply-To: <20110515092343.c8f04b1b.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> References: <20110515092343.c8f04b1b.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20110515130014.0250ad20@pop.mm.com> At 5/15/2011 09:23 AM, Jason Hsu wrote: >I need help selecting a startup sound. Does Minnesota have a legendary figure as beloved as Harry Caray in Chicago? Judy Garland, singer & movie star ~1940s born Frances Ethel Gumm, Grand Rapids, 1922 "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" from the Wizard of Oz Bob Dylan, singer/songwriter ~1960s born Robert Allen Zimmerman, Duluth/Hibbing, 1941 "Everybody Must Get Stoned" Prince, rock star ~1980s Prince Rogers Nelson, Minneapolis, 1958 "Does Anybody Know How to Spell My Name?" From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Sun May 15 13:24:46 2011 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 13:24:46 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Suggestions for Minnesota Swift Linux Message-ID: On May 15, 2011, at 9:23 AM, Jason Hsu wrote: > I'm adding Chicago Swift Linux. I'm originally from the Chicago area, and I can > relentlessly promote the Chicago edition to my friends on Facebook. > I've heard Facebook and company called "social not-working" sites. Google is giving away advertising right now: https://services.google.com/fb/forms/adwordscoupon/ -- Brian Wood http://webEbenezer.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Dean.Benjamin at mm.com Sun May 15 13:47:39 2011 From: Dean.Benjamin at mm.com (Dean.Benjamin at mm.com) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 13:47:39 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Suggestions for Minnesota Swift Linux In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20110515130014.0250ad20@pop.mm.com> References: <20110515092343.c8f04b1b.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20110515130014.0250ad20@pop.mm.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20110515133716.0250a2e0@pop.mm.com> But none of those are iconic Minnesotans. For iconic, legendary, and beloved, I'd go with Gaviidae Gavia Immer, swimmer/flyer ~timeless born Common Loon, State Bird, adopted 1961 "Sound of the Summertime Lake" At 5/15/2011 01:22 PM, I wrote: >At 5/15/2011 09:23 AM, Jason Hsu wrote: >>I need help selecting a startup sound. Does Minnesota have a legendary figure as beloved as Harry Caray in Chicago? > >Judy Garland, singer & movie star ~1940s > born Frances Ethel Gumm, Grand Rapids, 1922 > "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" from the Wizard of Oz > >Bob Dylan, singer/songwriter ~1960s > born Robert Allen Zimmerman, Duluth/Hibbing, 1941 > "Everybody Must Get Stoned" > >Prince, rock star ~1980s > Prince Rogers Nelson, Minneapolis, 1958 > "Does Anybody Know How to Spell My Name?" > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list at mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From eric.schultz at mchsi.com Sun May 15 14:18:02 2011 From: eric.schultz at mchsi.com (Eric Schultz) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 14:18:02 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Any Ubuntu Wireless experts? In-Reply-To: <527347592.1402121305486427510.JavaMail.root@dsmdc-mail-mbs12> Message-ID: <1801717090.1402871305487082888.JavaMail.root@dsmdc-mail-mbs12> 1. Go to your manufacturer website. 2. Most like Dell, you can go through support to find the type.. dell lattitude vs a dell inspiron, and then the specific model 1501 or a dell D620, which I just installed Ubuntu on 3 laptops, all with wireless and they work great. 3. Go to System, administration, Additional Drivers. 4. Ubuntu will do a search, and it will find what you need because you already downloaded it, select it, install it. You will need to reboot to activate it. Do so. If it doesn't start at boot, generally the issue is turning on and off the wireless card. ON my Dell, I use Fn/F2 to turn on or off. I had to go into the computer set up, and turn off the automatically on, as it would cause a hang up during boot. Then reboot, and when you log in, hit the FN/F2 to turn on the card. Other option. At step 4. Go to System, Administration, Window Wireless Drivers It will search, and not find any. Select Install new driver. Go to where you downloaded your drivers for your specific model. You will need the inf file. This is typically bcmw.inf and install. (this is more of a pain- and I would recommend using terminal before this approach) Most people install the driver, but they don't turn off during the boot, enabling the wireless driver - the automatically on/off. I would disable this and have it so that you can turn it off or on, but not automatically....I would bet this is the issue for you. Wireless using Linux, I get way better reception, and it is the only way I use a laptop. I also like using terminal to install, more control, I have found if something goes wrong, I can find the specific solution. I live in the south metro, Shakopee area. I have class at Metro state on Mondays, if you needed help I would be willing to help. Wireless Installation us. http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/driverslist.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&ServiceTag=&SystemID=LAT_PNT_PM_D400&os=WW1&osl=en&catid=&impid= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Lunde" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Cc: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:55:50 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Any Ubuntu Wireless experts? Eric - If you have a solution, I'd love to see it on-list. I, too, have a laptop with a Broadcom wireless card that works under XP but which Natty isn't handling correctly. This card came in a HP laptop, not that that matters. I've used previous versions of Ubuntu, going back to Warty, and other laptops with Broadcom cards but haven't found a solution to this one yet. What information do you need? Thanks Thomas On May 14, 2011, at 10:20 PM, Eric Schultz wrote: > Scott, > > > if you have problems, email me directly, I can walk you through it or get you the drivers you need. With Ubuntu, you do not need to go through bw-cutter or b43. > > eric.schultz at mchsi.com > > Eric > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Raun" > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 8:05:12 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central > Subject: [tclug-list] Any Ubuntu Wireless experts? > > I've got a Dell Latitude D400 with what Ubuntu identifies as a > Broadcom BCM4309 802.11a/b/g (rev 02), PCI ID = 14e4:4324 (rev 02) > > I've found a number of web pages that refer me to bw43-cutter. I > install it and the related firmware package on my Natty Narwhal - but > the wireless card is still down. I can get probes to admit it is > there, but I can't get it talking. > > The card was known working under WinXP last weekend. > > Anyone willing to help me figure out what's going on here? I'm in > South Minneapolis, I work in Plymouth M-F 8-5, I'm willing to travel a > fair bit if needed. > > -- > Scott Raun > sraun at fireopal.org > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Sun May 15 16:25:43 2011 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 16:25:43 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Suggestions for Minnesota Swift Linux In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20110515133716.0250a2e0@pop.mm.com> References: <20110515092343.c8f04b1b.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20110515130014.0250ad20@pop.mm.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20110515133716.0250a2e0@pop.mm.com> Message-ID: <4DD044D7.2020401@gmail.com> On 5/15/2011 1:47 PM, Dean.Benjamin at mm.com cried from the depths of the abyss: > But none of those are iconic Minnesotans. > For iconic, legendary, and beloved, I'd go with > > Gaviidae Gavia Immer, swimmer/flyer ~timeless > born Common Loon, State Bird, adopted 1961 > "Sound of the Summertime Lake" Hello! Paul Bunyan & Babe the blue Ox. From cncole at earthlink.net Sun May 15 17:30:45 2011 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 17:30:45 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Suggestions for Minnesota Swift Linux In-Reply-To: <4DD044D7.2020401@gmail.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Mr. B-o-B > > On 5/15/2011 1:47 PM, Dean.Benjamin at mm.com cried from the depths of the > abyss: > > But none of those are iconic Minnesotans. > > For iconic, legendary, and beloved, I'd go with > > > > Gaviidae Gavia Immer, swimmer/flyer ~timeless > > born Common Loon, State Bird, adopted 1961 > > "Sound of the Summertime Lake" > > Hello! Paul Bunyan & Babe the blue Ox. Viva and Jerry from MTN TV cable channel 6 iconic Minneapolis! Chuck From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Sun May 15 17:46:58 2011 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 17:46:58 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Suggestions for Minnesota Swift Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DD057E2.8010201@gmail.com> On 5/15/2011 5:30 PM, Chuck Cole cried from the depths of the abyss: >>> But none of those are iconic Minnesotans. >>> For iconic, legendary, and beloved, I'd go with >>> >>> Gaviidae Gavia Immer, swimmer/flyer ~timeless >>> born Common Loon, State Bird, adopted 1961 >>> "Sound of the Summertime Lake" >> >> Hello! Paul Bunyan& Babe the blue Ox. > > Viva and Jerry from MTN TV cable channel 6 > iconic Minneapolis! > To be honest, I think OP should not waste time with all these special editions. Spend the time making one solid edition, and simply offer extra themes that can be easily installed & other user can contribute to a theme repository. From mark.katerberg at gmail.com Sun May 15 17:51:12 2011 From: mark.katerberg at gmail.com (mark.katerberg at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 17:51:12 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Suggestions for Minnesota Swift Linux In-Reply-To: <4DD057E2.8010201@gmail.com> References: <4DD057E2.8010201@gmail.com> Message-ID: <45ba4a78-ae2a-429e-84ba-d76a5806ddfc@email.android.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 "Mr. B-o-B" wrote: >On 5/15/2011 5:30 PM, Chuck Cole cried from the depths of the abyss: > >>>> But none of those are iconic Minnesotans. >>>> For iconic, legendary, and beloved, I'd go with >>>> >>>> Gaviidae Gavia Immer, swimmer/flyer ~timeless >>>> born Common Loon, State Bird, adopted 1961 >>>> "Sound of the Summertime Lake" >>> >>> Hello! Paul Bunyan& Babe the blue Ox. >> >> Viva and Jerry from MTN TV cable channel 6 >> iconic Minneapolis! >> > >To be honest, I think OP should not waste time with all these special >editions. Spend the time making one solid edition, and simply offer >extra themes that can be easily installed & other user can contribute >to >a theme repository. > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list at mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list +1 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: APG v1.0.8 iQFHBAEBCAAxBQJN0FjfKhxNYXJrIEthdGVyYmVyZyA8bWFyay5rYXRlcmJlcmdA Z21haWwuY29tPgAKCRARdikJk4Hr16xsB/9NHamsOuCVqUIImqBqFfLzibvPNe0p lQMK7meUkpgpkzL5NAvBhwe+cwSNZSRwZuAmVbUA7FTZtzI4LrDdp5miFS2pTPdu i0UfgvutCVhrFgecDT0xlHt+i7BbVkToJExSnQa5d1c0EUvmvMn5XnjmaWYCSMK5 lT4OGL2uQiNgdlU2mLViHiR1vQ5WgbBdLrs83ygSogoYwL51HfSoBoHYxZ7vrAqe 2wgBz26g3jfy8TZxNBNcm2mvnGqNPm39/ix39CCFDw4k2aGGLFlT14pob7Q5//Hc EFasc2saFkWnCfjUtSiZF5lkFzlW+adG+n1JdHDcDju8mRrxfvpjm581 =aI4G -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Sun May 15 17:52:23 2011 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 17:52:23 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Suggestions for Minnesota Swift Linux In-Reply-To: <45ba4a78-ae2a-429e-84ba-d76a5806ddfc@email.android.com> References: <4DD057E2.8010201@gmail.com> <45ba4a78-ae2a-429e-84ba-d76a5806ddfc@email.android.com> Message-ID: Gotta love the PGP overhead on that message... ;) On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 5:51 PM, mark.katerberg at gmail.com wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA256 > > "Mr. B-o-B" wrote: > >>On 5/15/2011 5:30 PM, Chuck Cole cried from the depths of the abyss: >> >>>>> But none of those are iconic Minnesotans. >>>>> For iconic, legendary, and beloved, I'd go with >>>>> >>>>> Gaviidae Gavia Immer, swimmer/flyer ~timeless >>>>> ? ? ?born Common Loon, State Bird, adopted 1961 >>>>> ? ? ?"Sound of the Summertime Lake" >>>> >>>> Hello! ?Paul Bunyan& ?Babe the blue Ox. >>> >>> Viva and Jerry from MTN TV cable channel 6 >>> ? ? ?iconic Minneapolis! >>> >> >>To be honest, I think OP should not waste time with all these special >>editions. ?Spend the time making one solid edition, and simply offer >>extra themes that can be easily installed & other user can contribute >>to >>a theme repository. >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > +1 > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: APG v1.0.8 > > iQFHBAEBCAAxBQJN0FjfKhxNYXJrIEthdGVyYmVyZyA8bWFyay5rYXRlcmJlcmdA > Z21haWwuY29tPgAKCRARdikJk4Hr16xsB/9NHamsOuCVqUIImqBqFfLzibvPNe0p > lQMK7meUkpgpkzL5NAvBhwe+cwSNZSRwZuAmVbUA7FTZtzI4LrDdp5miFS2pTPdu > i0UfgvutCVhrFgecDT0xlHt+i7BbVkToJExSnQa5d1c0EUvmvMn5XnjmaWYCSMK5 > lT4OGL2uQiNgdlU2mLViHiR1vQ5WgbBdLrs83ygSogoYwL51HfSoBoHYxZ7vrAqe > 2wgBz26g3jfy8TZxNBNcm2mvnGqNPm39/ix39CCFDw4k2aGGLFlT14pob7Q5//Hc > EFasc2saFkWnCfjUtSiZF5lkFzlW+adG+n1JdHDcDju8mRrxfvpjm581 > =aI4G > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer erik.mitchell at gmail.com erik at ekmitchell.com http://ekmitchell.com/ From Dean.Benjamin at mm.com Sun May 15 18:33:19 2011 From: Dean.Benjamin at mm.com (Dean.Benjamin at mm.com) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 18:33:19 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Suggestions for Minnesota Swift Linux In-Reply-To: <4DD044D7.2020401@gmail.com> References: <20110515092343.c8f04b1b.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20110515130014.0250ad20@pop.mm.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20110515133716.0250a2e0@pop.mm.com> <4DD044D7.2020401@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20110515182757.025094c8@pop.mm.com> At 5/15/2011 04:25 PM, Mr. B-o-B wrote: >Hello! Paul Bunyan & Babe the blue Ox. Yeah. But Jason seeks suggestions for iconic *sounds*. "Moooorrghhh" ? On the other hand, Paul Bunyan *is* the Minnesotan Ur-Hacker. So: the sound of axe biting wood, followed by splintering crash of tree to ground. From nesius at gmail.com Sun May 15 20:24:15 2011 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 20:24:15 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Suggestions for Minnesota Swift Linux In-Reply-To: <4DD057E2.8010201@gmail.com> References: <4DD057E2.8010201@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 5:46 PM, Mr. B-o-B wrote: > On 5/15/2011 5:30 PM, Chuck Cole cried from the depths of the abyss: > > But none of those are iconic Minnesotans. >>>> For iconic, legendary, and beloved, I'd go with >>>> >>>> Gaviidae Gavia Immer, swimmer/flyer ~timeless >>>> born Common Loon, State Bird, adopted 1961 >>>> "Sound of the Summertime Lake" >>>> >>> >>> Hello! Paul Bunyan& Babe the blue Ox. >>> >> >> Viva and Jerry from MTN TV cable channel 6 >> iconic Minneapolis! >> >> > To be honest, I think OP should not waste time with all these special > editions. Spend the time making one solid edition, and simply offer extra > themes that can be easily installed & other user can contribute to a theme > repository. I'm groovin' that vibe, BoB. At the same time I think Jason should keep making it fun for himself so it doesn't become a grind. :) -Rob p.s. I think I see why bottom-posting is better now. There are four levels of quotes above but only two attributions. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sun May 15 20:24:23 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 20:24:23 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Suggestions for Minnesota Swift Linux In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20110515182757.025094c8@pop.mm.com> References: <20110515092343.c8f04b1b.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20110515130014.0250ad20@pop.mm.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20110515133716.0250a2e0@pop.mm.com> <4DD044D7.2020401@gmail.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20110515182757.025094c8@pop.mm.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 May 2011, Dean.Benjamin at mm.com wrote: > On the other hand, Paul Bunyan *is* the Minnesotan Ur-Hacker. > > So: the sound of axe biting wood, followed by splintering crash of tree > to ground. Or something like Frances McDormand's Marge Gunderson from "Fargo" saying "And I guess that was your accomplice in the wood chipper." A "Fargo" theme would be fun, with sound bites and images from the film -- with lots of the excessive Minnesota accent, you betcha! Mike From nesius at gmail.com Sun May 15 20:49:39 2011 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 20:49:39 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Suggestions for Minnesota Swift Linux In-Reply-To: References: <20110515092343.c8f04b1b.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20110515130014.0250ad20@pop.mm.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20110515133716.0250a2e0@pop.mm.com> <4DD044D7.2020401@gmail.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20110515182757.025094c8@pop.mm.com> Message-ID: On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 8:24 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Sun, 15 May 2011, Dean.Benjamin at mm.com wrote: > > On the other hand, Paul Bunyan *is* the Minnesotan Ur-Hacker. >> >> So: the sound of axe biting wood, followed by splintering crash of tree to >> ground. >> > > > Or something like Frances McDormand's Marge Gunderson from "Fargo" saying > "And I guess that was your accomplice in the wood chipper." > > A "Fargo" theme would be fun, with sound bites and images from the film -- > with lots of the excessive Minnesota accent, you betcha! > > That thought crossed my mind earlier too. "He was funny lookin' in a general sort of way..." -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sun May 15 21:19:14 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 21:19:14 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Suggestions for Minnesota Swift Linux In-Reply-To: References: <20110515092343.c8f04b1b.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20110515130014.0250ad20@pop.mm.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20110515133716.0250a2e0@pop.mm.com> <4DD044D7.2020401@gmail.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20110515182757.025094c8@pop.mm.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 May 2011, Robert Nesius wrote: > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 8:24 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > >> Or something like Frances McDormand's Marge Gunderson from "Fargo" >> saying "And I guess that was your accomplice in the wood chipper." >> >> A "Fargo" theme would be fun, with sound bites and images from the film >> -- with lots of the excessive Minnesota accent, you betcha! >> > > That thought crossed my mind earlier too. > > "He was funny lookin' in a general sort of way..." "Go Bears!" From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com Sun May 15 23:19:47 2011 From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 23:19:47 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Suggestions for Minnesota Swift Linux In-Reply-To: <20110515092343.c8f04b1b.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> References: <20110515092343.c8f04b1b.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: <20110515231947.99a7bc35.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Thanks for your suggestions. I think I'll use the sound of a Vikings or Twins victory. I'm very confident that such a sound clip would fire up many prospective Swift Linux users of every demographic group without offending anyone. Thus, I won't be using the sound of the woodchipper from _Fargo_. I think Linux needs more special editions. It's about marketing, something that Linux has been sorely lacking. I think Hannah Montana Linux was a great idea, and that's my inspiration for these special editions. The Linux community needs to reach the young. After all, religions, pro sports teams, Hershey, General Mills, Jostens, Best Buy, McDonald's, Microsoft, and Apple always do it. The Communists did it. That gloried drug cartel called the tobacco industry does it (albeit in much sneakier ways). -- Jason Hsu From mark.katerberg at gmail.com Sun May 15 23:23:52 2011 From: mark.katerberg at gmail.com (mark.katerberg at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 23:23:52 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Suggestions for Minnesota Swift Linux In-Reply-To: <20110515231947.99a7bc35.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> References: <20110515092343.c8f04b1b.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <20110515231947.99a7bc35.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: <73d69ad3-6dc2-43a8-865c-318d8e981669@email.android.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Jason Hsu wrote: >Thanks for your suggestions. I think I'll use the sound of a Vikings >or Twins victory. I'm very confident that such a sound clip would fire >up many prospective Swift Linux users of every demographic group >without offending anyone. Thus, I won't be using the sound of the >woodchipper from _Fargo_. > >I think Linux needs more special editions. It's about marketing, >something that Linux has been sorely lacking. I think Hannah Montana >Linux was a great idea, and that's my inspiration for these special >editions. The Linux community needs to reach the young. After all, >religions, pro sports teams, Hershey, General Mills, Jostens, Best Buy, >McDonald's, Microsoft, and Apple always do it. The Communists did it. >That gloried drug cartel called the tobacco industry does it (albeit in >much sneakier ways). > >-- >Jason Hsu >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list at mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list Has there been a "So Raven" version of OSX that I missed? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: APG v1.0.8 iQFHBAEBCAAxBQJN0KbYKhxNYXJrIEthdGVyYmVyZyA8bWFyay5rYXRlcmJlcmdA Z21haWwuY29tPgAKCRARdikJk4Hr1zCGB/9cbE5bSNoWPZ8pGB85A7pHxCMS/RKH JdB2xMDTRADpdBEhtGyH2i1b+GkKiIinqU81o+iGAa6FoxiS6Zd/7eLJwQ03iB0h D52r0iZvgq3V0a5mSHrPWyX6zTVQg6A+/DmCmEC3ylDc//fAsjs9jzIw+s3ZANmZ prC5hNtEUxPbxc4B7FACU9iOjueNXtXjPLBKygokR/3nbq0RGhc7MPrBI08zFI4y WmlzS9kPwxrQOpZFqLnHx5iwHul9MXPu+jcR/X5KyJZ50JqevKazvpAULMM3Ghuk WWi3BhzNyX8dWUYaStGBTHcy+46Z5aGX8Apns+hcR+5Y2H9z2gMvTyfz =mWCE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From fbsd.mlists at gmail.com Mon May 16 15:22:34 2011 From: fbsd.mlists at gmail.com (Steve Hilton) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 15:22:34 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Suggestions for Minnesota Swift Linux In-Reply-To: <20110515092343.c8f04b1b.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> References: <20110515092343.c8f04b1b.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 9:23 AM, Jason Hsu wrote: > For the next version of Swift Linux, I'm changing the lineup of special > editions. I'm dropping the iCarly, Magnum P.I., and NASCAR editions, but > I'm keeping the Taylor Swift edition. (This is SWIFT Linux.) > > I'm adding Chicago Swift Linux. I'm originally from the Chicago area, and > I can relentlessly promote the Chicago edition to my friends on Facebook. > The startup sound will be the legendary Harry Caray singing "Take Me Out to > the Ball Game" in the 7th inning stretch. > > I'm also adding Minnesota Swift Linux. For the wallpapers, I'm picking the > cherry in the sculpture garden and the Duluth lift bridge. I need help > selecting a startup sound. Does Minnesota have a legendary figure as > beloved as Harry Caray in Chicago? > > -- > Jason Hsu > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > Late to the game here, but the sound of a mosquito buzzing in my ear, possibly some frogs and crickets backing her up... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlunde at gmail.com Mon May 16 16:19:02 2011 From: tlunde at gmail.com (Thomas Lunde) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 16:19:02 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Suggestions for Minnesota Swift Linux In-Reply-To: <20110515231947.99a7bc35.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> References: <20110515092343.c8f04b1b.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <20110515231947.99a7bc35.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: Jason - I love that you're promoting Linux, so please take this friendly suggestion in that spirit. The Minnesota Vikings, Twins, et al are _required_ to come after you for using their registered trademarks without their permission on pain of losing their rights to those marks. I've never heard of a company called Blue Ox Software or Blue Ox Linux -- I'm thinking of Babe, here -- so that might be available for you to use without inviting a lawsuit. It wouldn't be a bad idea to check, though, before you get too attached to any given name. Have fun with your distribution! Thomas On May 15, 2011, at 11:19 PM, Jason Hsu wrote: > Thanks for your suggestions. I think I'll use the sound of a Vikings or Twins victory. I'm very confident that such a sound clip would fire up many prospective Swift Linux users of every demographic group without offending anyone. Thus, I won't be using the sound of the woodchipper from _Fargo_. > > I think Linux needs more special editions. It's about marketing, something that Linux has been sorely lacking. I think Hannah Montana Linux was a great idea, and that's my inspiration for these special editions. The Linux community needs to reach the young. After all, religions, pro sports teams, Hershey, General Mills, Jostens, Best Buy, McDonald's, Microsoft, and Apple always do it. The Communists did it. That gloried drug cartel called the tobacco industry does it (albeit in much sneakier ways). > > -- > Jason Hsu > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ryanjcole at me.com Mon May 16 16:26:25 2011 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 16:26:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Suggestions for Minnesota Swift Linux In-Reply-To: References: <20110515092343.c8f04b1b.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <20110515231947.99a7bc35.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: <1884DA8B-47F4-461A-B478-91B9B304624D@me.com> I would think Paul Bunyan and Babe the Blue Ox predate copyright restrictions. That very trustworthy source of Wikipedia says he was first documented in 1910 and became part of an advertisement in 1916. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bunyan On May 16, 2011, at 4:19 PM, Thomas Lunde wrote: > Jason - > > I love that you're promoting Linux, so please take this friendly suggestion in that spirit. > > The Minnesota Vikings, Twins, et al are _required_ to come after you for using their registered trademarks without their permission on pain of losing their rights to those marks. > > I've never heard of a company called Blue Ox Software or Blue Ox Linux -- I'm thinking of Babe, here -- so that might be available for you to use without inviting a lawsuit. It wouldn't be a bad idea to check, though, before you get too attached to any given name. > > Have fun with your distribution! > Thomas > > > On May 15, 2011, at 11:19 PM, Jason Hsu wrote: > >> Thanks for your suggestions. I think I'll use the sound of a Vikings or Twins victory. I'm very confident that such a sound clip would fire up many prospective Swift Linux users of every demographic group without offending anyone. Thus, I won't be using the sound of the woodchipper from _Fargo_. >> >> I think Linux needs more special editions. It's about marketing, something that Linux has been sorely lacking. I think Hannah Montana Linux was a great idea, and that's my inspiration for these special editions. The Linux community needs to reach the young. After all, religions, pro sports teams, Hershey, General Mills, Jostens, Best Buy, McDonald's, Microsoft, and Apple always do it. The Communists did it. That gloried drug cartel called the tobacco industry does it (albeit in much sneakier ways). >> >> -- >> Jason Hsu >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tlunde at gmail.com Mon May 16 17:20:33 2011 From: tlunde at gmail.com (Thomas Lunde) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 17:20:33 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Suggestions for Minnesota Swift Linux In-Reply-To: <1884DA8B-47F4-461A-B478-91B9B304624D@me.com> References: <20110515092343.c8f04b1b.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <20110515231947.99a7bc35.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <1884DA8B-47F4-461A-B478-91B9B304624D@me.com> Message-ID: Copyright and trademark law have as much (or as little) to do with each other as maritime and anti-trust law do. On May 16, 2011, at 4:26 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > I would think Paul Bunyan and Babe the Blue Ox predate copyright restrictions. > > That very trustworthy source of Wikipedia says he was first documented in 1910 and became part of an advertisement in 1916. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bunyan > > On May 16, 2011, at 4:19 PM, Thomas Lunde wrote: > >> Jason - >> >> I love that you're promoting Linux, so please take this friendly suggestion in that spirit. >> >> The Minnesota Vikings, Twins, et al are _required_ to come after you for using their registered trademarks without their permission on pain of losing their rights to those marks. >> >> I've never heard of a company called Blue Ox Software or Blue Ox Linux -- I'm thinking of Babe, here -- so that might be available for you to use without inviting a lawsuit. It wouldn't be a bad idea to check, though, before you get too attached to any given name. >> >> Have fun with your distribution! >> Thomas >> >> >> On May 15, 2011, at 11:19 PM, Jason Hsu wrote: >> >>> Thanks for your suggestions. I think I'll use the sound of a Vikings or Twins victory. I'm very confident that such a sound clip would fire up many prospective Swift Linux users of every demographic group without offending anyone. Thus, I won't be using the sound of the woodchipper from _Fargo_. >>> >>> I think Linux needs more special editions. It's about marketing, something that Linux has been sorely lacking. I think Hannah Montana Linux was a great idea, and that's my inspiration for these special editions. The Linux community needs to reach the young. After all, religions, pro sports teams, Hershey, General Mills, Jostens, Best Buy, McDonald's, Microsoft, and Apple always do it. The Communists did it. That gloried drug cartel called the tobacco industry does it (albeit in much sneakier ways). >>> >>> -- >>> Jason Hsu >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon May 16 17:55:34 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 17:55:34 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Suggestions for Minnesota Swift Linux In-Reply-To: References: <20110515092343.c8f04b1b.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <20110515231947.99a7bc35.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 May 2011, Thomas Lunde wrote: > I love that you're promoting Linux, so please take this friendly > suggestion in that spirit. > > The Minnesota Vikings, Twins, et al are _required_ to come after you for > using their registered trademarks without their permission on pain of > losing their rights to those marks. I think the worst problem he'll have is a cease-and-desist letter, but he'd better abide by it if he gets one. Given that he's making no money from this, and he probably doesn't have much money, they aren't going to be enthusiastic about paying their lawyers to drag him into court. On the other hand, as Thomas said, they have to drag him into court if he doesn't comply with the cease-and-desist letter. Did anyone else notice that there is a line of snowboards called "GNU?" I guess it's a totally different business from the OS, so they can do that. With Apple Records and Apple Computer, they were able to resolve their differences when Apple Computer agreed never to get into the music business. We all know how that turned out. Mike From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com Mon May 16 22:10:27 2011 From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 22:10:27 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] What companies in the Twin Cities have a "hacker-centric" culture? Message-ID: <20110516221027.70178b41.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> I am seeking a position as a Linux IT consultant, software engineer, or programmer. According to Paul Graham and Joel Spolsky, a "hacker-centric" culture tends to be an all-or-nothing proposition. They say that the very best programmers and software engineers are part of an inner circle, and they all follow each other around. If a company develops a "hacker-unfriendly" culture, these top people move elsewhere en masse to another company that is "hacker-friendly". The corollary to all this is that companies without this "hacker-centric" culture tend to be mediocre at best and often populated by pointy-haired idiots. None of the top people want to work there, so none of them do, and the negative culture perpetuates itself. Given this, which companies have this "hacker-centric" culture? Who are the best people? Are there any any professional organizations? In addition to making Swift Linux the biggest success story since Ubuntu, is there anything else I can do to make sure I am one of these top people? More importantly, what can I do to distance myself from the mediocre people and the pointy-haired idiots? I want to avoid being like them, and it would help to stay far, far away from them. Those losers obviously don't see themselves as losers and are probably full of covers and rationalizations, so I know better than to think I can avoid being one by reciting a few mantras every day. Given such a sharp divide, I need to make sure I'm on the correct side. If I'm part of the "hacker-centric" culture, I'll be automatically more productive, enjoy my job, and have superior career prospects. If I'm on the wrong side of the divide, it will be like trying to go up a floor on the wrong escalator. -- Jason Hsu From adam.morris at redstargaming.net Mon May 16 22:21:39 2011 From: adam.morris at redstargaming.net (Adam Morris) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 22:21:39 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] What companies in the Twin Cities have a "hacker-centric" culture? In-Reply-To: <20110516221027.70178b41.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> References: <20110516221027.70178b41.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: Honestly, stop thinking about it so much. The very best programmers in the industry never distance themselves from so-called "mediocre" people because often those "mediocre" people turn out to have a really slick idea once in a while. Instead they take it upon themselves to rise to the top and lead those very same people you would call "mediocre" to do great things. More importantly, those people often, with a little guidance, tend to turn out to be very excellent programmers, even if some of them may not fit in with the hacker culture. In my experience the best programmers have often also been the best leaders. Of the two traits, the ability to lead others to great successes is what has made people like Richard Stallman and Linus Torvalds to being considered the best. An arrogant attitude will not take you very far in the hacker culture or a professional career in programming. Do yourself a favor and accept the fact that there are people out there who don't share the same passion for programming that you do, and you'll take yourself a lot further than you would with a poor attitude towards them. -Adam On May 16, 2011, at 10:10 PM, Jason Hsu wrote: > I am seeking a position as a Linux IT consultant, software engineer, or programmer. > > According to Paul Graham and Joel Spolsky, a "hacker-centric" culture tends to be an all-or-nothing proposition. They say that the very best programmers and software engineers are part of an inner circle, and they all follow each other around. If a company develops a "hacker-unfriendly" culture, these top people move elsewhere en masse to another company that is "hacker-friendly". > > The corollary to all this is that companies without this "hacker-centric" culture tend to be mediocre at best and often populated by pointy-haired idiots. None of the top people want to work there, so none of them do, and the negative culture perpetuates itself. > > Given this, which companies have this "hacker-centric" culture? Who are the best people? Are there any any professional organizations? In addition to making Swift Linux the biggest success story since Ubuntu, is there anything else I can do to make sure I am one of these top people? > > More importantly, what can I do to distance myself from the mediocre people and the pointy-haired idiots? I want to avoid being like them, and it would help to stay far, far away from them. Those losers obviously don't see themselves as losers and are probably full of covers and rationalizations, so I know better than to think I can avoid being one by reciting a few mantras every day. > > Given such a sharp divide, I need to make sure I'm on the correct side. If I'm part of the "hacker-centric" culture, I'll be automatically more productive, enjoy my job, and have superior career prospects. If I'm on the wrong side of the divide, it will be like trying to go up a floor on the wrong escalator. > > -- > Jason Hsu > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mark.katerberg at gmail.com Mon May 16 22:35:57 2011 From: mark.katerberg at gmail.com (mark.katerberg at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 22:35:57 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] What companies in the Twin Cities have a "hacker-centric" culture? In-Reply-To: References: <20110516221027.70178b41.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: <0535791f-3110-460d-b217-20a970d9aaa9@email.android.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Adam Morris wrote: >Honestly, stop thinking about it so much. The very best programmers in >the industry never distance themselves from so-called "mediocre" people >because often those "mediocre" people turn out to have a really slick >idea once in a while. Instead they take it upon themselves to rise to >the top and lead those very same people you would call "mediocre" to do >great things. More importantly, those people often, with a little >guidance, tend to turn out to be very excellent programmers, even if >some of them may not fit in with the hacker culture. > >In my experience the best programmers have often also been the best >leaders. Of the two traits, the ability to lead others to great >successes is what has made people like Richard Stallman and Linus >Torvalds to being considered the best. > >An arrogant attitude will not take you very far in the hacker culture >or a professional career in programming. Do yourself a favor and >accept the fact that there are people out there who don't share the >same passion for programming that you do, and you'll take yourself a >lot further than you would with a poor attitude towards them. > >-Adam > >On May 16, 2011, at 10:10 PM, Jason Hsu wrote: > >> I am seeking a position as a Linux IT consultant, software engineer, >or programmer. >> >> According to Paul Graham and Joel Spolsky, a "hacker-centric" culture >tends to be an all-or-nothing proposition. They say that the very best >programmers and software engineers are part of an inner circle, and >they all follow each other around. If a company develops a >"hacker-unfriendly" culture, these top people move elsewhere en masse >to another company that is "hacker-friendly". >> >> The corollary to all this is that companies without this >"hacker-centric" culture tend to be mediocre at best and often >populated by pointy-haired idiots. None of the top people want to work >there, so none of them do, and the negative culture perpetuates itself. >> >> Given this, which companies have this "hacker-centric" culture? Who >are the best people? Are there any any professional organizations? In >addition to making Swift Linux the biggest success story since Ubuntu, >is there anything else I can do to make sure I am one of these top >people? >> >> More importantly, what can I do to distance myself from the mediocre >people and the pointy-haired idiots? I want to avoid being like them, >and it would help to stay far, far away from them. Those losers >obviously don't see themselves as losers and are probably full of >covers and rationalizations, so I know better than to think I can avoid >being one by reciting a few mantras every day. >> >> Given such a sharp divide, I need to make sure I'm on the correct >side. If I'm part of the "hacker-centric" culture, I'll be >automatically more productive, enjoy my job, and have superior career >prospects. If I'm on the wrong side of the divide, it will be like >trying to go up a floor on the wrong escalator. >> >> -- >> Jason Hsu >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list at mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list True. Also, as a man that very much enjoys his hairgel from time to time, I'm offended by the notion that a hacker can be determined so easily by hairstyles. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: APG v1.0.8 iQFHBAEBCAAxBQJN0e0dKhxNYXJrIEthdGVyYmVyZyA8bWFyay5rYXRlcmJlcmdA Z21haWwuY29tPgAKCRARdikJk4Hr1xrOB/9d9bSVztwi/4c8iL1HHNZZj2mIGTJT FVcfdvjDTRjfI0UYMUnMzfVc0b6JpnLQcEwDrV0vEQ8e2SavyPFP4EnPEGhpjAtF 6Jv0NOvIpJfYe/qzdbvplUSfZiz3xe62znmm1vyy/55kXIVGkOkB9jFvWTu0Fi0l JKlBPipvjsCssslS6TBikv86qc6Ii075QPJxmyDOCJBaAT9lW5ASABJymOZDU8ml NhzQwU6RtndWjtzfZ9mTD18xBeTUOIfz615pfiQo5zeMbrrlSE0SL4go9eTypS9A KfKqfAAXWIFBPNb9aj6HDmDzcBKBiX6nih47PEAKPfETLOASfQ14ttDg =hHoP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cncole at earthlink.net Mon May 16 22:47:28 2011 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 22:47:28 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] What companies in the Twin Cities have a"hacker-centric" culture? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Adam Morris > Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 10:22 PM > > Honestly, stop thinking about it so much. The very best programmers in the industry never distance themselves from > so-called "mediocre" people because often those "mediocre" people turn out to have a really slick idea once in a while. > Instead they take it upon themselves to rise to the top and lead those very same people you would call "mediocre" to do > great things. More importantly, those people often, with a little guidance, tend to turn out to be very excellent > programmers, even if some of them may not fit in with the hacker culture. > > In my experience the best programmers have often also been the best leaders. Of the two traits, the ability to lead > others to great successes is what has made people like Richard Stallman and Linus Torvalds to being considered the best. > > An arrogant attitude will not take you very far in the hacker culture or a professional career in programming. Do > yourself a favor and accept the fact that there are people out there who don't share the same passion for programming > that you do, and you'll take yourself a lot further than you would with a poor attitude towards them. > > -Adam The high tech areas that require real innovation and teamwork cannot tolerate hackers and tinkerers. For example, programming to detect and thwart missiles aimed at a fighter aircraft for "your side" requires the greatest cleverness and verification teamwork in a secure team. Cleared players must be both very good and interchangeable. Nobody would trust a lone wolf hacker. Similar things are true for most things on the leading edge of technology. IT maintenance and support is more likely to be "fix it now" for well-established stuff. Bandaids and hacker stuff may be tolerated, but better groups will always insist on maintainability and verification. Something sounds off-base about your ideas of "hacker-centric" cultures. Doesn't sound like something to aspire to at any stage of your career. Chuck > > On May 16, 2011, at 10:10 PM, Jason Hsu wrote: > > > I am seeking a position as a Linux IT consultant, software engineer, or programmer. > > > > According to Paul Graham and Joel Spolsky, a "hacker-centric" culture tends to be an all-or-nothing proposition. They > say that the very best programmers and software engineers are part of an inner circle, and they all follow each other > around. If a company develops a "hacker-unfriendly" culture, these top people move elsewhere en masse to another company > that is "hacker-friendly". > > > > The corollary to all this is that companies without this "hacker-centric" culture tend to be mediocre at best and often > populated by pointy-haired idiots. None of the top people want to work there, so none of them do, and the negative > culture perpetuates itself. > > > > Given this, which companies have this "hacker-centric" culture? Who are the best people? Are there any any > professional organizations? In addition to making Swift Linux the biggest success story since Ubuntu, is there anything > else I can do to make sure I am one of these top people? > > > > More importantly, what can I do to distance myself from the mediocre people and the pointy-haired idiots? I want to > avoid being like them, and it would help to stay far, far away from them. Those losers obviously don't see themselves as > losers and are probably full of covers and rationalizations, so I know better than to think I can avoid being one by > reciting a few mantras every day. > > > > Given such a sharp divide, I need to make sure I'm on the correct side. If I'm part of the "hacker-centric" culture, > I'll be automatically more productive, enjoy my job, and have superior career prospects. If I'm on the wrong side of the > divide, it will be like trying to go up a floor on the wrong escalator. > > > > -- > > Jason Hsu > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1375 / Virus Database: 1500/3642 - Release Date: 05/16/11 From tclug at freakzilla.com Mon May 16 22:59:26 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 22:59:26 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] What companies in the Twin Cities have a"hacker-centric" culture? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 May 2011, Chuck Cole wrote: > Something sounds off-base about your ideas of "hacker-centric" cultures. Doesn't sound like something to aspire to at any stage of > your career. Yeah, why would anyone want to have Google on their resume. I'm pretty sure that's the kind of "hacker-centric" environment the OP meant. Sure, it's no longer the 90s, and there aren't THAT many places that have pool tables and on-site laundry anymore, and where you're encouraged ot take one day a week just to work on your own projects. Heck, I'm not even saying you should really pin your hopes on a place like that, and that if you DO really want something like that you should either A) Invent a time machine, or B) Move to California. But places liek that /do/ still exist, and you can /still/ luck out and get in on the ground floor of the next Google/Facebook/Twitter/Whatever it might be. It's not super likely, and again, original poster, I would NOT count on it, but there IS a middle-ground here. There are plenty of places you can work where your ability to improvise a solution RIGHT THE HECK NOW for a problem nobody ever anticipated would be valued. Even high-visibility fotune-500 companies might be OK with you hacking together an automated solution for something that previously took 500 man-hours, so long as you take the time to document it. Now if you're going to go work at an ISO9001-Compliant place, yeah, that kind of stuff won't fly. I think one important thing to remember is, and I hate to say this... the chances of you finding a PERFECT job where you can just do whatever it is you absolutely love and no other boring/mind-numbing/repetitious crap attached to it are very, very low. Be prepared to compromise on your professional life, at least at first. But do NOT give up on hacking as a hobby! -Yaron -- From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com Tue May 17 05:38:31 2011 From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 05:38:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] What companies in the Twin Cities have a "hacker-centric" culture? In-Reply-To: <20110516221027.70178b41.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> References: <20110516221027.70178b41.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: <20110517053831.a61a1079.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Thanks for your thoughts. Now I wonder what else from Paul Graham and Joel Spolsky I should take with a shaker of salt. -- Jason Hsu From jucziz6 at gmail.com Tue May 17 09:59:06 2011 From: jucziz6 at gmail.com (James) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 09:59:06 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] What companies in the Twin Cities have a "hacker-centric" culture? In-Reply-To: <20110517053831.a61a1079.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> References: <20110516221027.70178b41.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <20110517053831.a61a1079.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: Paul Graham has a Ph. D. in Applied Science specializing in computer science. Joel Spolsky has a BS in computer science. Paul created LISP and Joel has worked with Microsoft on its Visual Basic and Excel products. I would hardly consider these endeavors as hacking projects. Creating a programming language isn't a new process anymore the step are fairly documented. As for working at Microsoft, well yes in the early years Bill Gates was a hacker with his efforts to get BASIC to work on the Altair computer but at this time I would find it difficult to believe that existing product lines lend themselves to hacking out a way to get a few more bytes of memory. As to what they've accomplished I wouldn't take it with a grain of salt but research what they did and how they did it. I've worked and currently work at places that have a hacker mentality employee's, when those employee's leave it takes years to find, fix/replace and document all the things they "worked" on. The cost to the company tends to be in the 10's to 100's of thousands of dollars. >From researched the words hacker centric I would a-line it with cowboy, the lone employee. Most companies need team oriented employee's not employee's running of on there own personal objectives. The hacker centric person starts there company but it doesn't stay that way this would be called an entrepreneur or visionary a more worthy title than hacker. Again, look at what Paul and Joel did they started products and or companies. On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 5:38 AM, Jason Hsu wrote: > Thanks for your thoughts. ?Now I wonder what else from Paul Graham and Joel Spolsky I should take with a shaker of salt. > -- > Jason Hsu > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From eminmn at sysmatrix.net Tue May 17 10:35:22 2011 From: eminmn at sysmatrix.net (Ed C.) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 10:35:22 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] What companies in the Twin Cities have a "hacker-centric" culture? In-Reply-To: References: <20110516221027.70178b41.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <20110517053831.a61a1079.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: <4DD295BA.8050901@sysmatrix.net> John McCarthy created LISP six years before Graham was born. Graham is/was a lisp enthusiast/programmer. Maybe "cracker" should be used instead of "hacker" (at least in the good sense of the word hacker.) Ed James wrote: > Paul Graham has a Ph. D. in Applied Science specializing in computer > science. Joel Spolsky has a BS in computer science. Paul created LISP > and Joel has worked with Microsoft on its Visual Basic and Excel > products. I would hardly consider these endeavors as hacking projects. > > Creating a programming language isn't a new process anymore the step > are fairly documented. As for working at Microsoft, well yes in the > early years Bill Gates was a hacker with his efforts to get BASIC to > work on the Altair computer but at this time I would find it difficult > to believe that existing product lines lend themselves to hacking out > a way to get a few more bytes of memory. > > As to what they've accomplished I wouldn't take it with a grain of > salt but research what they did and how they did it. > > I've worked and currently work at places that have a hacker mentality > employee's, when those employee's leave it takes years to find, > fix/replace and document all the things they "worked" on. The cost to > the company tends to be in the 10's to 100's of thousands of dollars. > >>From researched the words hacker centric I would a-line it with > cowboy, the lone employee. Most companies need team oriented > employee's not employee's running of on there own personal objectives. > > The hacker centric person starts there company but it doesn't stay > that way this would be called an entrepreneur or visionary a more > worthy title than hacker. Again, look at what Paul and Joel did they > started products and or companies. > > > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 5:38 AM, Jason Hsu wrote: >> Thanks for your thoughts. Now I wonder what else from Paul Graham and Joel Spolsky I should take with a shaker of salt. >> -- >> Jason Hsu >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From nesius at gmail.com Tue May 17 14:09:33 2011 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 14:09:33 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] What companies in the Twin Cities have a "hacker-centric" culture? In-Reply-To: <20110516221027.70178b41.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> References: <20110516221027.70178b41.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 10:10 PM, Jason Hsu wrote: > More importantly, what can I do to distance myself from the mediocre people > and the pointy-haired idiots? I want to avoid being like them, and it would > help to stay far, far away from them. Those losers obviously don't see > themselves as losers and are probably full of covers and rationalizations, > so I know better than to think I can avoid being one by reciting a few > mantras every day. > Even after you've put yourself upon a pedestal far above those you loathe, how do you know your pedestal was really any higher? After all, you yourself say they are not aware of their loserness - how is it you're exempt from the same rationalizations (and and therefore immune from dissonance theory) when they are as human as you? You may well be smarter than a lot of people - most people - heck even me (which is not hard - according to my wife). I think your productivity, job happiness, and career prospects will be significantly heightened by being nice to people, and not worrying about who is below you or above you. Yes, the tech world is full of self-absorbed ass-hats whose low-tolerance-for-stupidity personalities lead to greatness. It so happens most of them were owners and entrepreneurs - which affords a bit more leeway on the ass-hat-meter. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brockn at gmail.com Tue May 17 14:32:16 2011 From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 12:32:16 -0700 Subject: [tclug-list] What companies in the Twin Cities have a "hacker-centric" culture? In-Reply-To: References: <20110516221027.70178b41.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: Hi, I am not commenting on the maturity level of the poster. You are likely more so than myself! :) But this statement: On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 12:09 PM, Robert Nesius wrote: > > You may well be smarter than a lot of people - most people - heck even me > (which is not hard - according to my wife). I think your productivity, job > happiness, and career prospects will be significantly heightened by being > nice to people, and not worrying about who is below you or above you. > reminded me of this picture of maturity: http://i.imgur.com/ziTL8.jpg Cheers, Brock -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue May 17 15:22:15 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 15:22:15 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] What companies in the Twin Cities have a "hacker-centric" culture? In-Reply-To: <20110517053831.a61a1079.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> References: <20110516221027.70178b41.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <20110517053831.a61a1079.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 May 2011, Jason Hsu wrote: > Thanks for your thoughts. Now I wonder what else from Paul Graham and > Joel Spolsky I should take with a shaker of salt. Maybe what you really want, and what they were trying to recommend, is to work with people who love programming. If they love it, they will be happy and competent and fun to work with. If they are miserable worker drones, robbed of all creativity, you won't like your job either. Mike From adam.morris at redstargaming.net Tue May 17 17:20:31 2011 From: adam.morris at redstargaming.net (Adam Morris) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 17:20:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] What companies in the Twin Cities have a "hacker-centric" culture? In-Reply-To: References: <20110516221027.70178b41.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <20110517053831.a61a1079.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: <228412F2-162E-4C29-853E-4235E02D5B03@redstargaming.net> On May 17, 2011, at 3:22 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Tue, 17 May 2011, Jason Hsu wrote: > >> Thanks for your thoughts. Now I wonder what else from Paul Graham and Joel Spolsky I should take with a shaker of salt. > > > Maybe what you really want, and what they were trying to recommend, is to work with people who love programming. If they love it, they will be happy and competent and fun to work with. If they are miserable worker drones, robbed of all creativity, you won't like your job either. > > Mike I think this is exactly what Paul and Joel were trying to get at. I have been at places where the majority of people go into the office, write their code, and then leave grumbling the end of the day. Often this has to do with the environment they're in, as well as whether or not they actually enjoy programming. If a company has a lot of people who just hate coding, those negative attitudes are absolutely toxic, and it really hurts the work environment in the long run. On the other hand, a company who has a bunch of people who absolutely love programming tends to have a much better work environment. Ultimately this comes down to who management hires. I know that for me, if I'm not enjoying my environment I no longer enjoy programming, and I am a complete hacker... if I'm not programming and having fun doing it, then I won't stick around for long. On the other hand, I've been at companies (like my current one) where the majority of people I work with on a daily basis do love programming. Some don't, but most do, and the environment at companies where people love coding is just awesome compared to the places I've worked where nobody really "gets" programming and "hacking". This isn't to say that you will have fun all the time programming in an environment like that, but generally its better than an environment which doesn't foster a good programmer culture. Also, I do want to defend the term of hacker a little. I think you can definitely be a "hacker" and still be an excellent team programmer. I've seen a lot of hacker-types who never get past the "I'm effing awesome" stage of their career. They tend to be lone-wolves and cut every corner they can to get the code done as quickly as possible, and they rarely end up being someone you want on your team. Then there are the hacker-types who get past that stage, and what you end up with is programmers like Larry Wall, Joel Spolsky, and Dennis Ritchie just to name a few of the famous ones. There are thousands, possibly millions, more out there who never even reach fame, but honestly, I've met very few hackers who want fame and fortune... ultimately their goal in life is to learn and code and have a blast doing it. Hacker in this context has, to me, has always meant someone who loves programming and understanding as much as possible about computers to become even better at programming. I would say just keep doing what you're doing and don't worry about being better or worse than anyone else. As long as you're working hard and having a blast doing it you'll go very far in your career. -Adam From john.meier at gmail.com Tue May 17 18:35:34 2011 From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 18:35:34 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-, Open Software-friendly tablet? In-Reply-To: <796673.67085.qm@web161613.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <20110511130500.GG9704@styx.iucha.org> <796673.67085.qm@web161613.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > I might be in the market for a tablet. *Viewsonic gTablet 10.1" * http://cgi.ebay.com/350463680103?clk_rvr_id=233115202314#ht_11220wt_1141 (tiger direct via ebay sale) $275 + free shipping. I think I read somewhere someone was porting ubuntu to run on the hardware. There's also a bunch of android based hacks for it too. Isn't the android OS based off the linux kernel? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Tue May 17 19:07:04 2011 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 19:07:04 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-, Open Software-friendly tablet? In-Reply-To: References: <20110511130500.GG9704@styx.iucha.org> <796673.67085.qm@web161613.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1ECB08C8-6B26-422B-B944-48A76871CA79@me.com> Just because it's linux-based doesn't mean it's any good. >:-) On May 17, 2011, at 6:35 PM, John Meier wrote: > > > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > I might be in the market for a tablet. > > Viewsonic gTablet 10.1" > http://cgi.ebay.com/350463680103?clk_rvr_id=233115202314#ht_11220wt_1141 (tiger direct via ebay sale) > > $275 + free shipping. I think I read somewhere someone was porting ubuntu to run on the hardware. There's also a bunch of android based hacks for it too. Isn't the android OS based off the linux kernel? > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dutchman_mn at charter.net Tue May 17 19:27:48 2011 From: dutchman_mn at charter.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 19:27:48 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-, Open Software-friendly tablet? In-Reply-To: <1ECB08C8-6B26-422B-B944-48A76871CA79@me.com> References: <20110511130500.GG9704@styx.iucha.org> <796673.67085.qm@web161613.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1ECB08C8-6B26-422B-B944-48A76871CA79@me.com> Message-ID: <4DD31284.10300@charter.net> This is a review: http://www.infoworld.com/d/mobile-technology/viewsonic-viewpad-10-tablet-windows-plus-android-doesnt-add-508 On 5/17/2011 7:07 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > Just because it's linux-based doesn't mean it's any good. >:-) > On May 17, 2011, at 6:35 PM, John Meier wrote: > >> >> >> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Olwe Bottorff > > wrote: >> >> I might be in the market for a tablet. >> >> >> * >> >> >> Viewsonic gTablet 10.1" >> >> * >> http://cgi.ebay.com/350463680103?clk_rvr_id=233115202314#ht_11220wt_1141 >> (tiger direct via ebay sale) >> >> $275 + free shipping. I think I read somewhere someone was porting >> ubuntu to run on the hardware. There's also a bunch of android >> based hacks for it too. Isn't the android OS based off the linux >> kernel? >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smcgrath23 at gmail.com Tue May 17 20:10:21 2011 From: smcgrath23 at gmail.com (Steve McGrath) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 20:10:21 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-, Open Software-friendly tablet? In-Reply-To: References: <20110511130500.GG9704@styx.iucha.org> <796673.67085.qm@web161613.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 6:35 PM, John Meier wrote: > > > On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > >> I might be in the market for a tablet. > > > * Viewsonic gTablet 10.1" * > http://cgi.ebay.com/350463680103?clk_rvr_id=233115202314#ht_11220wt_1141 > (tiger direct via ebay sale) > > $275 + free shipping. I think I read somewhere someone was porting ubuntu > to run on the hardware. There's also a bunch of android based hacks for it > too. Isn't the android OS based off the linux kernel? > > I have a gTablet, it's crap. I should qualify that, though. It's actually excellent hardware, except for the screen. The screen is a standard netbook screen, with narrow viewing angles. Moving it more than a few degrees from the optimal viewing angle causes solarization of the image. It's also a little on the chunky side, kind of uncomfortable to hold. Software is bad. Very bad. There is a work-in-progress Ubuntu port, and all possible Android ROMs available for it should be considered a work in progress as well. This includes the stock firmware. I found it to be a fun toy, since it's very hackable and nearly unbrickable, but mostly it is only useful for playing Angry Birds and occasional web browsing. Mine is getting sold or traded this week, now that the novelty has worn off. Any interest here? -Steve McGrath -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed May 18 02:14:41 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 02:14:41 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-, Open Software-friendly tablet? In-Reply-To: References: <20110511130500.GG9704@styx.iucha.org> <796673.67085.qm@web161613.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 May 2011, Steve McGrath wrote: > I have a gTablet, it's crap. [snip] > Any interest here? The thing I wonder about is why I would want one. I have a netbook -- I like that for when I travel, for taking notes at lectures, etc. It has a keyboard, which helps. I see a lot of interest in tablets right now but I'm not sure of why I'd want one. When I see an ad for the iPad tablet, they make it look great, but most of what they are showing is really nice software that has nothing to do with the device, as far as I know. The one thing I an appreciate about it is that it must be nice for reading stuff, like newspapers, maybe books or journal articles. It would be awkward to turn a netbook sideways, but it's easy with tablet. Is that the main selling point? - That it's nice for reading stuff? For movies it seems like a netbook would be nicer because it automatically holds the screen in the right position and it gives me a keyboard that I can use easily for pause, rewind, fast-forward, etc. So I'm not sure I'm getting the attraction unless it's all about reading (as it is with Kindle or Nook), but maybe someone here can fill me in. Mike From kris.browne at gmail.com Wed May 18 02:57:18 2011 From: kris.browne at gmail.com (Kris Browne) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 02:57:18 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-, Open Software-friendly tablet? In-Reply-To: References: <20110511130500.GG9704@styx.iucha.org> <796673.67085.qm@web161613.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: One can turn this question around. When I'm away from a full size computer, the majority of what I'm doing does not require any significant input. Watching movies, playing games, reading news/books/email, etc. Why in the world would I want to waste the weight involved in a keyboard for something I would only rarely use, and would mar the form-factor? In my experience though, there is no deficiency in using the built-in software keyboard for the cases it's needed, and if I'm dong longer form work a Bluetooth keyboard is more than adequate. (at least on iOS devices; I hated the soft-keyboard when I had an android phone). Kris Browne kris.browne at gmail.com http://www.google.com/profiles/kris.browne "the least expensive, most bug-free line of code is the one you didn't have to write." - Steve Jobs On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 02:14, Mike Miller wrote: > On Tue, 17 May 2011, Steve McGrath wrote: > > I have a gTablet, it's crap. >> > > [snip] > > Any interest here? >> > > The thing I wonder about is why I would want one. I have a netbook -- I > like that for when I travel, for taking notes at lectures, etc. It has a > keyboard, which helps. I see a lot of interest in tablets right now but I'm > not sure of why I'd want one. When I see an ad for the iPad tablet, they > make it look great, but most of what they are showing is really nice > software that has nothing to do with the device, as far as I know. > > The one thing I an appreciate about it is that it must be nice for reading > stuff, like newspapers, maybe books or journal articles. It would be > awkward to turn a netbook sideways, but it's easy with tablet. Is that the > main selling point? - That it's nice for reading stuff? For movies it seems > like a netbook would be nicer because it automatically holds the screen in > the right position and it gives me a keyboard that I can use easily for > pause, rewind, fast-forward, etc. > > So I'm not sure I'm getting the attraction unless it's all about reading > (as it is with Kindle or Nook), but maybe someone here can fill me in. > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed May 18 09:31:56 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 09:31:56 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-, Open Software-friendly tablet? In-Reply-To: References: <20110511130500.GG9704@styx.iucha.org> <796673.67085.qm@web161613.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 May 2011, Kris Browne wrote: > One can turn this question around. > > When I'm away from a full size computer, the majority of what I'm doing > does not require any significant input. Watching movies, playing games, > reading news/books/email, etc. Why in the world would I want to waste > the weight involved in a keyboard for something I would only rarely use, > and would mar the form-factor? Exercise? JK. I'm not sure how much the keyboard weighs, but the netbook may weigh more because of the HDD, or do the tablets have HDDs? I think they use all solid-state memory. Anyway, what you are saying makes sense and it's along the lines I was thinking -- tablets are best for reading and for watching video, especially alone. To watch a video with someone else you would want some kind of stand to hold the display still and then you'd be just as well off with the netbook, assuming they have the same screen resolution. I can pack a lot of movies onto my netbook HDD, but I guess the tablets won't hold much. > In my experience though, there is no deficiency in using the built-in > software keyboard for the cases it's needed, and if I'm dong longer form > work a Bluetooth keyboard is more than adequate. (at least on iOS > devices; I hated the soft-keyboard when I had an android phone). Good to know, but if you're going to carry an external keyboard when you travel, and possibly a stand, you may be losing your weight advantage and it sounds like more hassle to keep track of all the separate parts. Mike From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Thu May 19 16:46:09 2011 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 16:46:09 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] openoffice fonts? Message-ID: <201105192146.p4JLk9il004865@okra.fo4.net> my hardy openoffice has various fonts, which as far as i can recall came with the hardy openoffice packages. lucid openoffice doesn't have these fonts. natty libreoffice doesn't have these fonts. googling yields endless noise about installing fonts, but i'm still in the dark.. how do i enumerate what openoffice fonts are installed, or enumerate what openoffice fonts are in a doc, or incorporate the fonts into the docfile, or anything smarter you can suggest? i don't have to redo all my docs do i? perhaps there's a magic package that has the fonts i'm wanting? anyone? tia. From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com Thu May 19 17:04:31 2011 From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 17:04:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] openoffice fonts? In-Reply-To: <201105192146.p4JLk9il004865@okra.fo4.net> References: <201105192146.p4JLk9il004865@okra.fo4.net> Message-ID: Strange. For me Libreoffice looks in /usr/share/fonts/TTF (system wide location for ttf fonts) and uses those (I'm on a Debian based distro). So, all I do is copy any .ttf fonts to that directory and they are ready for use. This might be something set at compilation time or in your case, it was determined prior to it's pre-compiled package state. Perhaps find the directory that this specific Libreoffice package looks for fonts and dump fonts there or symlink to your system wide fonts directory. Any Ubuntu folks out there familiar with this package in Ubuntu repos? -- Jeremy MountainJohnson Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 4:46 PM, gregrwm wrote: > my hardy openoffice has various fonts, which as far as > i can recall came with the hardy openoffice packages. > > lucid openoffice doesn't have these fonts. > natty libreoffice doesn't have these fonts. > > googling yields endless noise about installing fonts, > but i'm still in the dark.. > > how do i > enumerate what openoffice fonts are installed, or > enumerate what openoffice fonts are in a doc, or > incorporate the fonts into the docfile, or > anything smarter you can suggest? > > i don't have to redo all my docs do i? ?perhaps > there's a magic package that has the fonts i'm wanting? > > anyone? > tia. > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From ron.e.nelson at gmail.com Thu May 19 18:49:16 2011 From: ron.e.nelson at gmail.com (Ron Nelson) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 18:49:16 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-, Open Software-friendly tablet? In-Reply-To: References: <20110511130500.GG9704@styx.iucha.org> <796673.67085.qm@web161613.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I really enjoy my rooted Nook Color. Appstore access, a shell prompt and the form factor (7") makes for a better ereader IMO. Anyone doing anything neat/different with their Nook? Ron On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 2:57 AM, Kris Browne wrote: > One can turn this question around. > > When I'm away from a full size computer, the majority of what I'm doing > does not require any significant input. Watching movies, playing games, > reading news/books/email, etc. Why in the world would I want to waste the > weight involved in a keyboard for something I would only rarely use, and > would mar the form-factor? > > In my experience though, there is no deficiency in using the built-in > software keyboard for the cases it's needed, and if I'm dong longer form > work a Bluetooth keyboard is more than adequate. (at least on iOS devices; I > hated the soft-keyboard when I had an android phone). > > > Kris Browne > kris.browne at gmail.com > http://www.google.com/profiles/kris.browne > > "the least expensive, most bug-free line of code is the one you didn't have > to write." - Steve Jobs > > > > On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 02:14, Mike Miller wrote: > >> On Tue, 17 May 2011, Steve McGrath wrote: >> >> I have a gTablet, it's crap. >>> >> >> [snip] >> >> Any interest here? >>> >> >> The thing I wonder about is why I would want one. I have a netbook -- I >> like that for when I travel, for taking notes at lectures, etc. It has a >> keyboard, which helps. I see a lot of interest in tablets right now but I'm >> not sure of why I'd want one. When I see an ad for the iPad tablet, they >> make it look great, but most of what they are showing is really nice >> software that has nothing to do with the device, as far as I know. >> >> The one thing I an appreciate about it is that it must be nice for reading >> stuff, like newspapers, maybe books or journal articles. It would be >> awkward to turn a netbook sideways, but it's easy with tablet. Is that the >> main selling point? - That it's nice for reading stuff? For movies it seems >> like a netbook would be nicer because it automatically holds the screen in >> the right position and it gives me a keyboard that I can use easily for >> pause, rewind, fast-forward, etc. >> >> So I'm not sure I'm getting the attraction unless it's all about reading >> (as it is with Kindle or Nook), but maybe someone here can fill me in. >> >> Mike >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- http://ronspace.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ron.e.nelson at gmail.com Thu May 19 18:56:49 2011 From: ron.e.nelson at gmail.com (Ron Nelson) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 18:56:49 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] For Sale: two DD-WRT v24-sp2 flashed Netgear APs Message-ID: I've got a couple two DD-WRT v24-sp2 flashed Netgear WNR834Bv2 wireless access points. http://support.netgear.com/app/products/model/a_id/2617 802.11 b/g/n, the usual fun. $20 apiece sound fair? -- http://ronspace.org/ From squack at gmail.com Thu May 19 19:51:28 2011 From: squack at gmail.com (William) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 19:51:28 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] For Sale: two DD-WRT v24-sp2 flashed Netgear APs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'll take them both for $20 each if you still have them. On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 6:56 PM, Ron Nelson wrote: > I've got a couple two DD-WRT v24-sp2 flashed Netgear WNR834Bv2 > wireless access points. > > http://support.netgear.com/app/products/model/a_id/2617 > > 802.11 b/g/n, the usual fun. $20 apiece sound fair? > > -- > http://ronspace.org/ > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.meier at gmail.com Fri May 20 07:58:34 2011 From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 07:58:34 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] For Sale: two DD-WRT v24-sp2 flashed Netgear APs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'll bite on that deal - if you still have them. can pick up today after 9:30 am. On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 6:56 PM, Ron Nelson wrote: > I've got a couple two DD-WRT v24-sp2 flashed Netgear WNR834Bv2 > wireless access points. > > http://support.netgear.com/app/products/model/a_id/2617 > > 802.11 b/g/n, the usual fun. $20 apiece sound fair? > > -- > http://ronspace.org/ > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cwgriesel at gmail.com Fri May 20 11:31:46 2011 From: cwgriesel at gmail.com (Curtis Griesel) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 11:31:46 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Microsoft Buys Skype In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Thomas Rieff wrote: > TCLUG, > It was in the news today, see article below, that Microsoft has purchased > Skype. > Being that Skype has gone to the Dark Side :-), Is there another video > conferencing alternative to Skype that could be used??? Linux based. Server > Based??? > Tom > I just saw this: "5 Skype alternatives for Linux users" http://www.itworld.com/print/166637 Curtis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From member at linkedin.com Sat May 21 10:49:03 2011 From: member at linkedin.com (Scott Berry via LinkedIn) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 15:49:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [tclug-list] Scott Berry wants to stay in touch on LinkedIn Message-ID: <1737744360.27474551.1305992943178.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed77.prod> LinkedIn ------------Scott Berry requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn: ------------------------------------------ Curtis, I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Scott Berry Accept invitation from Scott Berry http://www.linkedin.com/e/-7cme4e-gnyqh8aw-6z/fXkAsY5F_aQt80-TSgCO_UPp9GHtuGTfOkjS/blk/I150662572_20/1BpC5vrmRLoRZcjkkZt5YCpnlOt3RApnhMpmdzgmhxrSNBszYMcBYOdPkOdzoMdj59bS5Vd7hvomEQbP4OejwNcPkRej8LrCBxbOYWrSlI/EML_comm_afe/ View invitation from Scott Berry http://www.linkedin.com/e/-7cme4e-gnyqh8aw-6z/fXkAsY5F_aQt80-TSgCO_UPp9GHtuGTfOkjS/blk/I150662572_20/30OnP8Tdj8Sdz0RckALqnpPbOYWrSlI/svi/ ------------------------------------------ DID YOU KNOW you can be the first to know when a trusted member of your network changes jobs? With Network Updates on your LinkedIn home page, you'll be notified as members of your network change their current position. Be the first to know and reach out! http://www.linkedin.com/ -- (c) 2011, LinkedIn Corporation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com Tue May 24 00:35:14 2011 From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 00:35:14 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Python Packet Filter with Scapy by Chris Josephes @Penguins Unbound May 28th Message-ID: <4DDB4392.8040808@Goecke-Dolan.com> This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be Saturday May 28th at TIES, 1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108 from 10:00am to 12:00pm (See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more info.) At months Penguins Unbound Meeting Chris Josephes will talk about Packet Filtering with Python Scapy What is Scapy Scapy is a powerful interactive packet manipulation program. It is able to forge or decode packets of a wide number of protocols, send them on the wire, capture them, match requests and replies, and much more.... http://www.secdev.org/projects/scapy/ Thanks. Hope to see you there. ==>brian. *** STREAMING *** If you can't make it you can use this url to stream the meeting. mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 You should be able to connect with either: mplayer mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 or vlc http://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 From nmarkon at gmail.com Tue May 24 12:26:58 2011 From: nmarkon at gmail.com (Noah Markon) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 12:26:58 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] PCI SATA Controller Message-ID: I currently have an older PCI SATA controller in my mythbox, I believe it's some cheap rosewill thing. It's worked well enough for my 3 400GB drives, however I want to replace them with 2TB drives, and the controller only supports a max of 500GB drives. Any one got any suggests for a sata controller on the cheaper side that will support larger drives? Thanks! Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chrome at real-time.com Tue May 24 13:23:15 2011 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 13:23:15 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] PCI SATA Controller In-Reply-To: ; from nmarkon@gmail.com on Tue, May 24, 2011 at 12:26:58PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20110524132315.A25721@real-time.com> On 05/24 12:26 , Noah Markon wrote: > I currently have an older PCI SATA controller in my mythbox, I believe it's > some cheap rosewill thing. It's worked well enough for my 3 400GB drives, > however I want to replace them with 2TB drives, and the controller only > supports a max of 500GB drives. Any one got any suggests for a sata > controller on the cheaper side that will support larger drives? Buy a 3ware RAID controller. Good driver support in Linux, very good management interface. -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com Tue May 24 14:38:00 2011 From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 14:38:00 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Is version control available for web sites? Message-ID: <20110524143800.d1f88982.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> I'm using Git and GitHub for developing Swift Linux. Is there a way to implement version control for a web site so that you can revert to earlier versions of files if something goes wrong when you make a change? -- Jason Hsu From tclug at freakzilla.com Tue May 24 14:41:03 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 14:41:03 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Is version control available for web sites? In-Reply-To: <20110524143800.d1f88982.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> References: <20110524143800.d1f88982.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 May 2011, Jason Hsu wrote: > I'm using Git and GitHub for developing Swift Linux. > > Is there a way to implement version control for a web site so that you can revert to earlier versions of files if something goes wrong when you make a change? No reason why you can't check-in HTML/whatever to your repo and then check it out on your web server. -Yaron -- From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Tue May 24 14:43:24 2011 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 14:43:24 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Is version control available for web sites? In-Reply-To: <20110524143800.d1f88982.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> References: <20110524143800.d1f88982.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: Jason, This is a script I use for deploying my sites: #!/bin/bash # deploy.sh for example.com # Deploys current HEAD or a selected tag to production from git repository TAG="HEAD" STAMP=`date +%Y.%m.%d_%H%M%S` BASEDIR="/home/www-data/example.com" REPO="/home/scm/example.git" echo "Deploying $TAG to production in $STAMP." cd $BASEDIR/releases/ && \ git archive --format=tar --remote=$REPO $TAG | \ (tar xf - public/) && \ mv public ${STAMP} && \ rm ${BASEDIR}/current && \ cp ${BASEDIR}/shared/wp-config.php ${BASEDIR}/releases/${STAMP}/wp-config.php && \ ln -s ${BASEDIR}/shared/wp-content/blogs.dir \ ${BASEDIR}/releases/${STAMP}/wp-content/blogs.dir && \ ln -s ${BASEDIR}/shared/wp-content/uploads \ ${BASEDIR}/releases/${STAMP}/wp-content/uploads && \ ln -s ${BASEDIR}/releases/${STAMP} ${BASEDIR}/current echo "Cleaning up older releases" cd $BASEDIR/releases && ls -1tr | head -n -3 | xargs rm -fr echo "Finished."; So I have my DocumentRoot configured to point to "current". If I want to roll back, I just delete that current link and link to my previous release. This example happens to be for WordPress. Hopefully you get the idea. The 'shared' directory is for content that is shared between releases, and not tracked in version control. -Erik On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 2:38 PM, Jason Hsu wrote: > I'm using Git and GitHub for developing Swift Linux. > > Is there a way to implement version control for a web site so that you can revert to earlier versions of files if something goes wrong when you make a change? > > -- > Jason Hsu > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer erik.mitchell at gmail.com erik at ekmitchell.com http://ekmitchell.com/ From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com Tue May 24 14:43:27 2011 From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 14:43:27 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Is version control available for web sites? In-Reply-To: References: <20110524143800.d1f88982.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: <20110524144327.a1607868.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Is there a way to implement version control if you are NOT using your own web server? Is this something that the host has to provide? On Tue, 24 May 2011 14:41:03 -0500 (CDT) Yaron wrote: > > On Tue, 24 May 2011, Jason Hsu wrote: > > > I'm using Git and GitHub for developing Swift Linux. > > > > Is there a way to implement version control for a web site so that you can revert to earlier versions of files if something goes wrong when you make a change? > > No reason why you can't check-in HTML/whatever to your repo and then check > it out on your web server. > > > -Yaron > > -- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jason Hsu From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Tue May 24 14:45:48 2011 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 14:45:48 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Is version control available for web sites? In-Reply-To: <20110524144327.a1607868.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> References: <20110524143800.d1f88982.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <20110524144327.a1607868.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: git archive outputs a tar file to standard output. You could pipe that over an SSH connection into (tar -xf -) and extract your archive into a location on your server. On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Jason Hsu wrote: > Is there a way to implement version control if you are NOT using your own web server? ?Is this something that the host has to provide? > > On Tue, 24 May 2011 14:41:03 -0500 (CDT) > Yaron wrote: > >> >> On Tue, 24 May 2011, Jason Hsu wrote: >> >> > I'm using Git and GitHub for developing Swift Linux. >> > >> > Is there a way to implement version control for a web site so that you can revert to earlier versions of files if something goes wrong when you make a change? >> >> No reason why you can't check-in HTML/whatever to your repo and then check >> it out on your web server. >> >> >> -Yaron >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > -- > Jason Hsu > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer erik.mitchell at gmail.com erik at ekmitchell.com http://ekmitchell.com/ From robert at hutman.net Tue May 24 14:52:52 2011 From: robert at hutman.net (Robert Radtke) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 14:52:52 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Is version control available for web sites? In-Reply-To: <20110524144327.a1607868.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> References: <20110524143800.d1f88982.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <20110524144327.a1607868.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: <4DDC0C94.4060908@hutman.net> If you want to use git you're best off having your own server - this page has a nice recipe for doing it. http://toroid.org/ams/git-website-howto If you can't have your way with the server - the bzr upload plugin looks like it would be pretty slick - https://launchpad.net/bzr-upload -Robert Jason Hsu said this on 05/24/2011 02:43 PM: > Is there a way to implement version control if you are NOT using your own web server? Is this something that the host has to provide? > > On Tue, 24 May 2011 14:41:03 -0500 (CDT) > Yaron wrote: > >> On Tue, 24 May 2011, Jason Hsu wrote: >> >>> I'm using Git and GitHub for developing Swift Linux. >>> >>> Is there a way to implement version control for a web site so that you can revert to earlier versions of files if something goes wrong when you make a change? >> No reason why you can't check-in HTML/whatever to your repo and then check >> it out on your web server. >> >> >> -Yaron >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Robert Radtke Hutman Inc robert at hutman.net 1710 N. Douglas Dr. #285 612.843.1400 Minneapolis, MN 55422 #!/hutman~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From florin at iucha.net Tue May 24 15:37:16 2011 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 15:37:16 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Is version control available for web sites? In-Reply-To: <20110524144327.a1607868.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> References: <20110524143800.d1f88982.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <20110524144327.a1607868.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: <20110524203716.GR9704@styx.iucha.org> On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 02:43:27PM -0500, Jason Hsu wrote: > Is there a way to implement version control if you are NOT using your own > web server? Yes. > Is this something that the host has to provide? Yes, if you want the easiest to use implementation. (My hosting provider offers git 1.5.6 and mercurial 1.5) Otherwise you can rsync out your workspace to the server. Cheers, florin -- Don't question authority! They don't know either. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jjensen at apache.org Tue May 24 20:34:02 2011 From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 20:34:02 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] PCI SATA Controller In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I put a HighPoint RocketRAID in my Myth server (Fedora) a few years ago. I ended up with it from a MicroCenter visit and a helpful sales guy looking up compatibility info in their system. Funny thing is, I'm still using Linux RAID instead of the hardware... probably still the better idea for our home use. (experts will correct, of course!). On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Noah Markon wrote: > I currently have an older PCI SATA controller in my mythbox, I believe it's > some cheap rosewill thing. It's worked well enough for my 3 400GB drives, > however I want to replace them with 2TB drives, and the controller only > supports a max of 500GB drives. Any one got any suggests for a sata > controller on the cheaper side that will support larger drives? > Thanks! > Noah > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From ryanjcole at me.com Tue May 24 20:40:19 2011 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 20:40:19 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] PCI SATA Controller In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9A2BB329-C061-4AA5-9E92-D15485A8A853@me.com> I have the RR2230 and love it. Two cards, only one has an issue. I have to send it back to HPT for a service replacement but I haven't had the time required (or budget) to power it up and run through the tests that HPT will require of me before sending it back. The other card has been running for 3 years now without a problem. On May 24, 2011, at 8:34 PM, Jeff Jensen wrote: > I put a HighPoint RocketRAID in my Myth server (Fedora) a few years > ago. I ended up with it from a MicroCenter visit and a helpful sales > guy looking up compatibility info in their system. Funny thing is, > I'm still using Linux RAID instead of the hardware... probably still > the better idea for our home use. (experts will correct, of course!). > > > On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Noah Markon wrote: >> I currently have an older PCI SATA controller in my mythbox, I believe it's >> some cheap rosewill thing. It's worked well enough for my 3 400GB drives, >> however I want to replace them with 2TB drives, and the controller only >> supports a max of 500GB drives. Any one got any suggests for a sata >> controller on the cheaper side that will support larger drives? >> Thanks! >> Noah >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com Tue May 24 20:51:02 2011 From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 20:51:02 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Windows 7 NFS client share mapping options? Message-ID: Hello, Anyone know of any good commercial or otherwise 3rd party software to map NFS shares in Windows 7 (64bit)? Windows 7 Enterprise does do it, but I can only get 1~2 MB/sec on it (makes Windows sharing look like a solid gold toilet). I'm having issues with multiple file transactions and CIFS (Windows file sharing) shares- too slow and inefficient. Anyway, I'd go natively all Linux but the software that needs access to these shares won't nor should it run in Linux (also toying with a virtualized option down the road but that's not relevant right now). Also open to any tweaking ideas in Windows 7 Enterprise for it's "native" NFS support option. Thanks in advance for any suggestions, -- Jeremy MountainJohnson Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Tue May 24 22:09:40 2011 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 22:09:40 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] PCI SATA Controller In-Reply-To: <20110524132315.A25721@real-time.com> References: <20110524132315.A25721@real-time.com> Message-ID: <4DDC72F4.9070105@gmail.com> On 5/24/2011 1:23 PM, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom cried from the depths of the abyss: > > Buy a 3ware RAID controller. Good driver support in Linux, very good > management interface. > I would like to second this. I have nothing more to add as the above statement covers it all. From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com Tue May 24 22:50:13 2011 From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (kelly) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 22:50:13 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] PCI SATA Controller References: <20110524132315.A25721@real-time.com> <4DDC72F4.9070105@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0000200131@penguinpackets.com> Tue May 24 2011 10:09:40 PM CDT from "Mr. B-o-B" Subject: Re: [tclug-list] PCI SATA Controller > > > > On 5/24/2011 1:23 PM, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom cried from the depths of > the abyss: > > > >>Buy a 3ware RAID controller. Good driver support in Linux, very good >> management interface. >> >> >> > I would like to second this. I have nothing more to add as the above > statement covers it all. > > > _______________________________________________ > > 3rd.? Stay away from LSI! Kelly -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com Tue May 24 23:33:23 2011 From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 23:33:23 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Is version control available for web sites? In-Reply-To: <20110524203716.GR9704@styx.iucha.org> References: <20110524143800.d1f88982.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <20110524144327.a1607868.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <20110524203716.GR9704@styx.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20110524233323.b335bb0e.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> On Tue, 24 May 2011 15:37:16 -0500 Florin Iucha wrote: > On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 02:43:27PM -0500, Jason Hsu wrote: > > Is there a way to implement version control if you are NOT using your own > > web server? > > Yes. > > > Is this something that the host has to provide? > > Yes, if you want the easiest to use implementation. (My hosting > provider offers git 1.5.6 and mercurial 1.5) Otherwise you can rsync > out your workspace to the server. > What web hosting provider are you using? -- Jason Hsu From justin.kremer at gmail.com Wed May 25 00:17:57 2011 From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 00:17:57 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] PCI SATA Controller In-Reply-To: <0000200131@penguinpackets.com> References: <20110524132315.A25721@real-time.com> <4DDC72F4.9070105@gmail.com> <0000200131@penguinpackets.com> Message-ID: <5B743EF1-45D5-463D-B825-B13D7E33C98C@gmail.com> On May 24, 2011, at 10:50 PM, "kelly" wrote: > 3rd. Stay away from LSI! FWIW, LSI owns 3ware now. - Justin From nesius at gmail.com Wed May 25 01:46:49 2011 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 01:46:49 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] PCI SATA Controller In-Reply-To: <5B743EF1-45D5-463D-B825-B13D7E33C98C@gmail.com> References: <20110524132315.A25721@real-time.com> <4DDC72F4.9070105@gmail.com> <0000200131@penguinpackets.com> <5B743EF1-45D5-463D-B825-B13D7E33C98C@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 12:17 AM, Justin Kremer wrote: > On May 24, 2011, at 10:50 PM, "kelly" > wrote: > > > 3rd. Stay away from LSI! > > FWIW, LSI owns 3ware now. > - Justin > Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cncole at earthlink.net Wed May 25 04:04:54 2011 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 04:04:54 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] PCI SATA Controller In-Reply-To: <5B743EF1-45D5-463D-B825-B13D7E33C98C@gmail.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Justin Kremer > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 12:18 AM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] PCI SATA Controller > > > On May 24, 2011, at 10:50 PM, "kelly" wrote: > > > 3rd. Stay away from LSI! > > FWIW, LSI owns 3ware now. > - Justin LSI Corp bought most or all of Lucent, Agere and Bell Labs where WiFi, LAN, unix, and so on were invented, chips were invented then produced, and introduced to the world as first ever and leading choices.. with Linux drivers. The name over the door changed, but it's the same people and labs. These are not second-rate. The others are followers with less brain and lab moxie...fewer patents, much smaller installed base, etc. Chuck From marc at e-skinner.net Wed May 25 09:39:08 2011 From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 09:39:08 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] PCI SATA Controller In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DDD148C.2040206@e-skinner.net> If money isn't an issue - the dedicated 3ware raid cards are very hard to beat! At home I have had good luck with software raid, using a PCI-X SATA controller from Marvell. = $100 http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/110322224/8_Port_SATA_II_300_Marvell.html I have two of them in two different fileservers running 7 and 8 500gb disks, they have been very solid - owned them for 4-5 years now. You also might just want to look at replacing your motherboard with a motherboard and cpu combo from Microcenter - they can be pretty aggressive price wise and so many of the new motherboards these days are shipping with 4-6 sata ports right on the motherboard. No need for an add on card. I have a Gigabyte board with 6 sata ports that I'm running a software raid-10 with 6 1tb drives, and it is extremely fast. Always lots of choices, good luck! On 05/24/2011 12:26 PM, Noah Markon wrote: > I currently have an older PCI SATA controller in my mythbox, I believe > it's some cheap rosewill thing. It's worked well enough for my 3 400GB > drives, however I want to replace them with 2TB drives, and the > controller only supports a max of 500GB drives. Any one got any suggests > for a sata controller on the cheaper side that will support larger drives? > > Thanks! > > Noah > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nmarkon at gmail.com Wed May 25 15:50:19 2011 From: nmarkon at gmail.com (Noah Markon) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 15:50:19 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] PCI SATA Controller In-Reply-To: <4DDD148C.2040206@e-skinner.net> References: <4DDD148C.2040206@e-skinner.net> Message-ID: > > You also might just want to look at replacing your motherboard with a > motherboard and cpu combo from Microcenter - they can be pretty aggressive > price wise and so many of the new motherboards these days are shipping with > 4-6 sata ports right on the motherboard. No need for an add on card. I > have a Gigabyte board with 6 sata ports that I'm running a software raid-10 > with 6 1tb drives, and it is extremely fast. > > Thanks, that's a good suggestion. The current box is an old celeron, with 1GB of RAM, maybe it's time I retire it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Wed May 25 15:55:59 2011 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 15:55:59 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] sshd cheatcode? Message-ID: <201105252055.p4PKtxl1003866@okra.fo4.net> any chance SL-60-i386-2011-03-03-Install-DVD.iso (rhel6) has a cheatcode to start sshd? or, is there a rolled-their-own out there that does? the vnc cheatcode is something at least, but there are various situations where anaconda just drops to the local console.. what installers are better for remote installs (where the installing machine has no local server to provide pxe or nfs)? From taanerud at comcast.net Wed May 25 17:33:01 2011 From: taanerud at comcast.net (Timothy Aanerud) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 17:33:01 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] PCI SATA Controller In-Reply-To: References: <4DDD148C.2040206@e-skinner.net> Message-ID: <4DDD839D.8050206@comcast.net> Microcenter currently has a deal on AMD CPU/mobo combos. Buy a AMD Phenom II X2 560 or higher CPU and get a free mobo. Just add ram and you're set. -- Timothy. On 5/25/2011 3:50 PM, Noah Markon wrote: > > You also might just want to look at replacing your motherboard > with a motherboard and cpu combo from Microcenter - they can be > pretty aggressive price wise and so many of the new motherboards > these days are shipping with 4-6 sata ports right on the > motherboard. No need for an add on card. I have a Gigabyte board > with 6 sata ports that I'm running a software raid-10 with 6 1tb > drives, and it is extremely fast. > > > Thanks, that's a good suggestion. The current box is an old celeron, > with 1GB of RAM, maybe it's time I retire it. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sraun at fireopal.org Wed May 25 19:13:43 2011 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 19:13:43 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] PCI SATA Controller In-Reply-To: <4DDD839D.8050206@comcast.net> References: <4DDD148C.2040206@e-skinner.net> <4DDD839D.8050206@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20110526001343.GA14093@fireopal.org> On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 05:33:01PM -0500, Timothy Aanerud wrote: > Microcenter currently has a deal on AMD CPU/mobo combos. Buy a AMD > Phenom II X2 560 or higher CPU and get a free mobo. > Just add ram and you're set. My search-fu is failing. I found the AMD Phenom II X2 560 for $89.99, but couldn't find your referenced deal. Do you have a pointer? -- Scott Raun sraun at fireopal.org From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com Thu May 26 16:50:57 2011 From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 16:50:57 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Healthy hands Message-ID: After 2 full days working on a web project typing about 12 hours each day my hands are very sore. Now I am working on Java and have a couple full days of typing ahead of me. I do have a nice ergonomic work station setup with a kinesis freestyle keyboard. I have seen some exercises and different things out there and do some stretches. What do you do to keep your hands in good shape? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From florin at iucha.net Thu May 26 16:57:55 2011 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 16:57:55 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Healthy hands In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110526215754.GE3653@styx.iucha.org> On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 04:50:57PM -0500, r j wrote: > After 2 full days working on a web project typing about 12 hours each day my > hands are very sore. > > Now I am working on Java and have a couple full days of typing ahead of me. > > I do have a nice ergonomic work station setup with a kinesis freestyle > keyboard. > > I have seen some exercises and different things out there and do some > stretches. > > What do you do to keep your hands in good shape? 1. Use a Kinesis Advantage keyboard. 2. Daily exercises for upper-body strength - push-ups, biceps curls, hammer curls, lateral raises. Cheers, florin -- Don't question authority! They don't know either. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Thu May 26 16:58:06 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 16:58:06 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Healthy hands In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 26 May 2011, r j wrote: > What do you do to keep your hands in good shape? TAKE FREQUENT BREAKS. This cannot be over emphasised. If you need to set up an alert to make sure you stop for 10 minutes every hour, do it. If you need someone to come over and physically keep you from typing, do it. And there are all kinds of hand/wrist stretching exercises you can do, too. -Yaron -- From chrome at real-time.com Thu May 26 17:05:15 2011 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 17:05:15 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Healthy hands In-Reply-To: ; from ronsmailbox5@gmail.com on Thu, May 26, 2011 at 04:50:57PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20110526170515.K25721@real-time.com> On 05/26 04:50 , r j wrote: > What do you do to keep your hands in good shape? Buy one of these: http://ironmind-store.com/Trainer-Captains-of-Crush-Hand-Gripper/productinfo/1250/ Put it in your car. On your drive to work, squeeze it in your hand (squeeze and hold for 15 seconds, then relax; invert it in your hand, change to the other hand, alternate these different modes of squeezing it but do it for at least a few repetitions on each hand). This will stretch out your tendons and muscles first thing in the morning, and will prevent the pain. Don't jump into it too quickly; if you're not accustomed to it, you may feel like you're getting worse at first. It will get better after that. Believe it or not, if you're a man of ordinary strength, squeezing 100 pounds in your hand is ordinary. It may take a little while to get used to using your muscles that way; but you can do it. If you're really concerned about your grip strength, start off with one of the lighter models. Do not buy one of the crappy plastic or chrome-plated ones they sell at most fitness stores. Those things will break if you use them more than a few times. Buy the good ones from Ironmind, they last forever. -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From chrome at real-time.com Thu May 26 17:13:01 2011 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 17:13:01 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Healthy hands In-Reply-To: <20110526215754.GE3653@styx.iucha.org>; from florin@iucha.net on Thu, May 26, 2011 at 04:57:55PM -0500 References: <20110526215754.GE3653@styx.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20110526171301.M25721@real-time.com> On 05/26 04:57 , Florin Iucha wrote: > 1. Use a Kinesis Advantage keyboard. That keyboard put off wrist strain for about 6 months for me. It also forced me to learn to type correctly. :) I finally stopped using mine, because it still had an AT plug on it and the PS/2 adapter was too bulky to fit on my new computer. Maybe one day I'll get around to buying a USB adapter; but for now I'm happy enough with my 1986-vintage IBM Type M keyboard. Grip exercises were the long-term cure for my wrist strain; and they had to be with the V-spring type exerciser. Just squeezing a rubber ball or the like wasn't enough. -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From max at bernsteinforpresident.com Thu May 26 17:11:06 2011 From: max at bernsteinforpresident.com (Max Shinn) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 17:11:06 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Healthy hands In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201105261711.06665.max@bernsteinforpresident.com> On Thursday, May 26, 2011 04:50:57 pm r j wrote: > What do you do to keep your hands in good shape? I know it's not what you want to hear, but have you considered switching to Colemak? It won't help you with your next few days of typing, but my hands have been much happier since I switched over, and in the long term, it helps tremendously. Also, if you're an Emacs user, change your Control key to another location on the keyboard. :) From florin at iucha.net Thu May 26 17:44:29 2011 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 17:44:29 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Healthy hands In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110526224428.GF3653@styx.iucha.org> On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 04:58:06PM -0500, Yaron wrote: > On Thu, 26 May 2011, r j wrote: > >> What do you do to keep your hands in good shape? > > TAKE FREQUENT BREAKS. This cannot be over emphasised. If you need to set > up an alert to make sure you stop for 10 minutes every hour, do it. If > you need someone to come over and physically keep you from typing, do it. On Linux/Windows install Workrave. Cheers, florin -- Don't question authority! They don't know either. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri May 27 12:04:45 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:04:45 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Healthy hands In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 26 May 2011, Yaron wrote: > On Thu, 26 May 2011, r j wrote: > >> What do you do to keep your hands in good shape? > > TAKE FREQUENT BREAKS. This cannot be over emphasised. If you need to set > up an alert to make sure you stop for 10 minutes every hour, do it. If > you need someone to come over and physically keep you from typing, do > it. The thing you need to worry about is carpal tunnel syndrome. What Yaron is saying is exactly what I've heard from physicians and other experts on carpal tunnel about what one should do to prevent the syndrome. I haven't heard of any other serious hand/wrist problems from typing, so I would recommend reading a little about carpal tunnel syndrome and how to prevent it. Mike From barn0357 at umn.edu Fri May 27 12:25:22 2011 From: barn0357 at umn.edu (Richard Barnes) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:25:22 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 77, Issue 39 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DDFDE82.2080600@umn.edu> REDUCE your usage. Many problems are caused by sudden increases in workload. PROPER POSTURE is key. Make sure your keyboard isn't too high too low, there are reliable guides for ergonomics online. Stretch GENTLY BEFORE starting - this prompts lubrication of the tendon sheaths. If you're looking for other stretching/strengthening ideas, look at what violinists and pianists do. They're heavy on finger/wrist action. TAKE BREAKS. Stretch your wrists GENTLY during the breaks. You should consider ibuprofin to reduce inflammation. Inflammation narrows already-narrow tendon sheaths leading to further problems. 200mg every four to five hours is fine. You shouldn't do this for more than two weeks. You should consider icing to reduce inflammation. 10-15 minutes on, 10-15 minutes off. You want to make the area that hurts cold, you don't want to freeze it. DON'T rub your wrists. They hurt, but rubbing them won't help. The only thing in your wrists are tendons and rubbing will only bother them. Massage both sides of your upper forearm (or have a partner do it): this is where the muscles that control your fingers live. If they get tense or tight, that puts strain on the tendons, which inhibits their movement through the sheaths in the wrist, leading to inflammation. I'm wary of the previous suggestion to get a grip-strengthening device. You do not need bulk-strength to avoid these problems, you need endurance-strength. That is, training to squeeze a hundred pounds of force 5 times isn't going to help. Being able to consistently squeeze at, say, 20-30 pounds might. When I had these problems, what ultimately helped me was wrist curls coupled with back/shoulder strengthening. With the wrist curls, I worked my way up from 5lbs to 10bs. Maybe fifteen reps flexing the wrist, fifteen extending. Two to three sets of reps. If you "don't have time" (and I didn't, to my detriment, for years), just do one set of reps. Be sure to do both flexion and extension - you need to engage the primary muscles and the antagonistic muscles or there will be problems. Don't use too much weight. This makes your muscles tense. Tense muscles cause pain. It is best to consult a physical therapist or other knowledgeable person about specific weight-training regimens. In summary: correct problems with your posture and ergonomics. This is easy: do it. Reduce your usage - you have to work up to this sort of thing. Reduce inflammation now with ibuprofin and icing. Start taking breaks and, once you feel better, keep taking them. Once you get tendonitis, RSI, carpal tunnel, it comes back easier the next time. You have to be vigilant. Breaks are also good for your eyes - looking up and away to change focal depth. In the long term, it will be good to strengthen your wrists (this also strengthens your fingers) arm muscles and back muscles. For best results act now. If you feel pain, STOP. Unless you let your wrists heal (and it will take a bit longer than you want it to), the problem will get worse. And if you get a full-fledged RSI, that can put you out of the game for months, or years. (I missed out on a career playing piano because of it.) Be good to your body. Hope this helps. ~Richard~ On 05/27/2011 12:00 PM, tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org wrote: > Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Healthy hands (r j) > 2. Re: Healthy hands (Florin Iucha) > 3. Re: Healthy hands (Yaron) > 4. Re: Healthy hands (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) > 5. Re: Healthy hands (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) > 6. Re: Healthy hands (Max Shinn) > 7. Re: Healthy hands (Florin Iucha) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 16:50:57 -0500 > From: r j > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: [tclug-list] Healthy hands > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > After 2 full days working on a web project typing about 12 hours each day my > hands are very sore. > > Now I am working on Java and have a couple full days of typing ahead of me. > > I do have a nice ergonomic work station setup with a kinesis freestyle > keyboard. > > I have seen some exercises and different things out there and do some > stretches. > > What do you do to keep your hands in good shape? > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 16:57:55 -0500 > From: Florin Iucha > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Healthy hands > Message-ID:<20110526215754.GE3653 at styx.iucha.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 04:50:57PM -0500, r j wrote: >> After 2 full days working on a web project typing about 12 hours each day my >> hands are very sore. >> >> Now I am working on Java and have a couple full days of typing ahead of me. >> >> I do have a nice ergonomic work station setup with a kinesis freestyle >> keyboard. >> >> I have seen some exercises and different things out there and do some >> stretches. >> >> What do you do to keep your hands in good shape? > 1. Use a Kinesis Advantage keyboard. > > 2. Daily exercises for upper-body strength - push-ups, biceps curls, > hammer curls, lateral raises. > > Cheers, > florin > From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri May 27 12:28:10 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:28:10 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] new free book on "Architecture of Open Source Applications" Message-ID: The book is made available under the Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported license: http://www.aosabook.org/en/index.html "The Architecture of Open Source Applications, Elegance, Evolution and a Few Fearless Hacks." Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri May 27 12:51:45 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:51:45 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 77, Issue 39 In-Reply-To: <4DDFDE82.2080600@umn.edu> References: <4DDFDE82.2080600@umn.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 May 2011, Richard Barnes wrote: > You should consider ibuprofin to reduce inflammation. Inflammation > narrows already-narrow tendon sheaths leading to further problems. 200mg > every four to five hours is fine. You shouldn't do this for more than > two weeks. Another one that seems to be especially good for inflammation is naproxen sodium. It was recommended to me for my back by a physician. I bought mine at Target. It helped me a lot. Maybe it was recommended because of the good risk profile: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naproxen#Risks_and_adverse_effects Mike From tpenney at gmail.com Fri May 27 13:48:15 2011 From: tpenney at gmail.com (Tom Penney) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 13:48:15 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Healthy hands In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: a wrist brace that prevents you from bending your wrist forward helps me when my hands are sore and I still need to type. The also relive the presure where you rest your wrists. And wearing them will reminds me to exercise so it doesn't happen again. They have them at walgreens. http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/otc-professional-orthopaedic-soft-fit-suede-finish-wrist-brace,-right/ID=prod2602707-product?V=G&ext=frgl_Google_Home_Medical Tom On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Thu, 26 May 2011, Yaron wrote: > >> On Thu, 26 May 2011, r j wrote: >> >>> What do you do to keep your hands in good shape? >> >> TAKE FREQUENT BREAKS. This cannot be over emphasised. If you need to set >> up an alert to make sure you stop for 10 minutes every hour, do it. If you >> need someone to come over and physically keep you from typing, do it. > > > The thing you need to worry about is carpal tunnel syndrome. ?What Yaron is > saying is exactly what I've heard from physicians and other experts on > carpal tunnel about what one should do to prevent the syndrome. > > I haven't heard of any other serious hand/wrist problems from typing, so I > would recommend reading a little about carpal tunnel syndrome and how to > prevent it. > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Tom Penney 612.208.2568 From chrome at real-time.com Fri May 27 16:51:17 2011 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 16:51:17 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Healthy hands In-Reply-To: ; from tpenney@gmail.com on Fri, May 27, 2011 at 01:48:15PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20110527165117.O25721@real-time.com> On 05/27 01:48 , Tom Penney wrote: > a wrist brace that prevents you from bending your wrist forward helps > me when my hands are sore and I still need to type. The also relive > the presure where you rest your wrists. And wearing them will reminds > me to exercise so it doesn't happen again. They have them at > walgreens. > > http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/otc-professional-orthopaedic-soft-fit-suede-finish-wrist-brace,-right/ID=prod2602707-product?V=G&ext=frgl_Google_Home_Medical I don't like wrist braces for a couple of reasons: * They hold your wrist in one rigid position; which tends to exacerbate repetetive stress injury (RSI; look it up in addition to carpal tunnel, the two are not necessarily correlated). Moving your arms and wrists around more can often cure the problem. (When I typed by hunting-and-pecking I didn't get RSI - I only got it when I started to touch-type). * The position they usually put your hands and wrists into, I have found to exacerbate the problem as well. I found that if I can keep the back of my hands level with the back of my forearms, I don't get RSI. (This is why one shouldn't use a keyboard with high feet on the back -- flatter is better). Also, don't neglect your mouse. I found that switching to a trackball helped my RSI as well, tho it does make using GIMP/Photoshop harder. -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From chrome at real-time.com Fri May 27 17:13:47 2011 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 17:13:47 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 77, Issue 39 In-Reply-To: <4DDFDE82.2080600@umn.edu>; from barn0357@umn.edu on Fri, May 27, 2011 at 12:25:22PM -0500 References: <4DDFDE82.2080600@umn.edu> Message-ID: <20110527171347.P25721@real-time.com> On 05/27 12:25 , Richard Barnes wrote: > I'm wary of the previous suggestion to get a grip-strengthening device. > You do not need bulk-strength to avoid these problems, you need > endurance-strength. That is, training to squeeze a hundred pounds of > force 5 times isn't going to help. Being able to consistently squeeze > at, say, 20-30 pounds might. The 100# model was the lightest one that Ironmind made at the time. There are lighter ones now. I am not a terribly strong person (at least I don't think so); but I've not found the 100# to be exceedingly difficult to 'close'. (Note that the 100# is measured when the grips touch; if you don't get the grips to touch it's nowhere near as heavy, and if you grip lower it'll be easier). Also, in practice I did perhaps 40 repetitions with each hand. 60 on some days. I had an hour to do them while I drove to work. I've found that the prophylactic effect doesn't require that many repetitions; only a few. Keep in mind that the way to use these devices is to squeeze hard and hold for 15-20 seconds; which builds endurance. Repeated quick squeezes won't help as much and will tend to wear the device out faster. I am not a fitness expert; YMMV. Free weight exercises don't fit well into driving places in the car; but I understand they have a similar effect. -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com Fri May 27 17:38:10 2011 From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 17:38:10 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 77, Issue 40 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wow that is a lot of great advice. These are these are the steps I am starting with. 1.I have an exercise and message DVD coming. 2.I took the legs off my Kensis free style to lower it. 3.I will learn Dvorak or Colemack 4.I do take breaks. 5.I do take naproxin. 6I will look into the captin crush and compare with the exercises. My uncle breaks his cheap plastic ones every two months. Thank you all and this has been a great experience with lots of knowledge. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nesius at gmail.com Fri May 27 19:28:04 2011 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 19:28:04 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Healthy hands In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On May 27, 2011, at 12:04 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Thu, 26 May 2011, Yaron wrote: > >> On Thu, 26 May 2011, r j wrote: >> >>> What do you do to keep your hands in good shape? >> >> TAKE FREQUENT BREAKS. This cannot be over emphasised. If you need to set up an alert to make sure you stop for 10 minutes every hour, do it. If you need someone to come over and physically keep you from typing, do it. > > > The thing you need to worry about is carpal tunnel syndrome. What Yaron is saying is exactly what I've heard from physicians and other experts on carpal tunnel about what one should do to prevent the syndrome. > > I haven't heard of any other serious hand/wrist problems from typing, so I would recommend reading a little about carpal tunnel syndrome and how to prevent it. > > Carpal tunnel syndrome is often mixed up with RSI (repetitive strain injury). RSI injuries can lead to symptoms that carpal tunnel surgery alleviates for only a small amount of time. For more info I highly recommend a book entitled "it's not carpal tunnel syndrome! RSI theory and therapy..." http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0965510999/ref=redir_mdp_mobile/192-4251314-0273328 -rob Apologies for poor formatting. Sent from my iPwn. From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com Sun May 29 13:53:55 2011 From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 13:53:55 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: best books for getting started in Java Message-ID: <20110529135355.89cbdb1f.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> What books do you recommend for getting started in Java? Given that Java allegedly promotes bad habits, do these books address this? If there are such pitfalls in Java, I need to make sure I don't fall into them. -- Jason Hsu From wdtj at yahoo.com Sun May 29 14:29:45 2011 From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 12:29:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] OT: best books for getting started in Java In-Reply-To: <20110529135355.89cbdb1f.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> References: <20110529135355.89cbdb1f.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: <189147.54578.qm@web162017.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I always thought Java forced you into better programming practices (than c++ at least). Guess it depends on who you ask. The text book I had in my Intro to Java class was: "Java How to Program: Early Objects Version (8th Edition)" Harvey M. Deitel; Paperback; $89.99 Pricey, but pretty good. But then I already had experience in Java. Earlier editions are probably dirt cheap on Amazon.com. YMMV. --- Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those 3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, (612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis ________________________________ From: Jason Hsu To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Sent: Sun, May 29, 2011 1:53:55 PM Subject: [tclug-list] OT: best books for getting started in Java What books do you recommend for getting started in Java? Given that Java allegedly promotes bad habits, do these books address this? If there are such pitfalls in Java, I need to make sure I don't fall into them. -- Jason Hsu _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Sun May 29 16:03:22 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 16:03:22 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] OT: best books for getting started in Java In-Reply-To: <20110529135355.89cbdb1f.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> References: <20110529135355.89cbdb1f.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: Strangely enough, every single Java book I've ever tried to read starts out with two or three chapters explaining why Java isn't so bad and please please please use it because it's not that bad anymore honest! I'm waiting for a book to come out called "Justifying Java". You should get that one. On Sun, 29 May 2011, Jason Hsu wrote: > What books do you recommend for getting started in Java? Given that Java allegedly promotes bad habits, do these books address this? If there are such pitfalls in Java, I need to make sure I don't fall into them. > > -- > Jason Hsu > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -Yaron -- From jjensen at apache.org Sun May 29 20:46:04 2011 From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 20:46:04 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: best books for getting started in Java In-Reply-To: <20110529135355.89cbdb1f.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> References: <20110529135355.89cbdb1f.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: Bruce Eckel's "Thinking in Java" is a very good book, and the first 3 editions are free for download. The 4th is not free. http://www.mindview.net/Books/TIJ/ There are good examples showing better ways of doing things. It doesn't show "this is bad, this is good", it just shows a good way. It also has more than just Java stuff; has OO and other general good topics too. Be sure to check out the Java Users group: www.tcjug.org And I don't think Java promotes bad habits (been doing it for over 12 years); however most (all?) programming languages allow you to do bad habits... On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Jason Hsu wrote: > What books do you recommend for getting started in Java? ?Given that Java allegedly promotes bad habits, do these books address this? ?If there are such pitfalls in Java, I need to make sure I don't fall into them. > > -- > Jason Hsu > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com Sun May 29 21:06:58 2011 From: bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com (Andrew Berg) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 21:06:58 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: best books for getting started in Java In-Reply-To: References: <20110529135355.89cbdb1f.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: <4DE2FBC2.6020005@gmail.com> On 2011.05.29 08:46 PM, Jeff Jensen wrote: > And I don't think Java promotes bad habits (been doing it for over 12 > years); however most (all?) programming languages allow you to do bad > habits... On the Python list, I've seen warnings about "the Dark Side". From jjensen at apache.org Sun May 29 21:14:54 2011 From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 21:14:54 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: best books for getting started in Java In-Reply-To: <4DE2FBC2.6020005@gmail.com> References: <20110529135355.89cbdb1f.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <4DE2FBC2.6020005@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yeah, Python is the dark side. But they have cookies. ;-) Personally, I find Python to be a neat language. But I have no interest in using it for big apps (a la "enterprise apps"). On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 9:06 PM, Andrew Berg wrote: > On 2011.05.29 08:46 PM, Jeff Jensen wrote: >> And I don't think Java promotes bad habits (been doing it for over 12 >> years); however most (all?) programming languages allow you to do bad >> habits... > On the Python list, I've seen warnings about "the Dark Side". > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From nesius at gmail.com Sun May 29 22:52:48 2011 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 22:52:48 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: best books for getting started in Java In-Reply-To: References: <20110529135355.89cbdb1f.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <4DE2FBC2.6020005@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Jeff Jensen wrote: > Yeah, Python is the dark side. But they have cookies. ;-) > > Personally, I find Python to be a neat language. But I have no > interest in using it for big apps (a la "enterprise apps"). > Why not? -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Sun May 29 22:57:06 2011 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 22:57:06 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: best books for getting started in Java In-Reply-To: References: <20110529135355.89cbdb1f.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <4DE2FBC2.6020005@gmail.com> Message-ID: Because he works for a Java shop ;) On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 10:52 PM, Robert Nesius wrote: > > > On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Jeff Jensen wrote: >> >> Yeah, Python is the dark side. ?But they have cookies. ?;-) >> >> Personally, I find Python to be a neat language. ?But I have no >> interest in using it for big apps (a la "enterprise apps"). > > Why not? > > -Rob > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer erik.mitchell at gmail.com erik at ekmitchell.com http://ekmitchell.com/ From nesius at gmail.com Sun May 29 23:02:42 2011 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 23:02:42 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: best books for getting started in Java In-Reply-To: References: <20110529135355.89cbdb1f.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <4DE2FBC2.6020005@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 10:57 PM, Erik Mitchell wrote: > Because he works for a Java shop ;) > > Well - there's a difference between "I have no interesting in using Python for enterprise apps" versus "I can't use Java for enterprise apps". -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjensen at apache.org Mon May 30 10:08:33 2011 From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 10:08:33 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: best books for getting started in Java In-Reply-To: References: <20110529135355.89cbdb1f.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <4DE2FBC2.6020005@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 11:02 PM, Robert Nesius wrote: > > > On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 10:57 PM, Erik Mitchell > wrote: >> >> Because he works for a Java shop ;) :-P > Well - there's a difference between "I have no interesting in using Python > for enterprise apps" versus "I can't use Java for enterprise apps". While I can when determining the architecture for my customer (which is usually), a lot of times platform choices are pre-determined by the customer, such as "Tomcat/WebSphere/other container". Although Java is far from perfect, the JVM ecosystem is so fantastic it's hard for many not to use it - maturity, performance, scalability, multi-platform, popularity, frameworks, tools, other JVM languages (specialties), etc. While the Java free-open-source world has plenty of garbage and abandoned projects, it also has some fantastic products. Saves a lot of dev and maint time and "it just works". So most of my work involves JVM languages and Java's "enterprise specs"/tools/frameworks. Of course, there's Jython, which can then allow access to all the JVM-related stuff... The movement in "my world" is not to Python, PHP, etc, but instead to also Groovy/Grails, Scala. Additional arguments move towards Ruby/Rails, but that's also not in my world ATM. Then there are those who argue for Clojure... Lastly, the perception of Python, PHP, et al as "scripting languages" doesn't help them. Conversations with a few PHP-guru friends who now dislike PHP work (and similar languages) after moving to Java some years ago (and recently Groovy/Scala), they mention the resulting app in Java as "more maintainable" vs the CF the PHP apps became (so does Python fit into that argument? And no, I don't have proof for their assertion.). Yet I always wonder was that due to the language or the authors. :-) One of them is quite the JavaScript guru, and has opened my eyes as to what a powerful language it is, and future potential with it. So popularity and applicability of language (and viability on the JVM) cause me to only have used Python in a couple of circumstances as scripts (from existing stuff). And these days, in my world, we'll typically use Groovy for the scripts instead. From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com Mon May 30 16:51:25 2011 From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 16:51:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Swift Linux 0.1.1 is now available! Message-ID: <20110530165125.ce46c513.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Swift Linux 0.1.1 is now available at http://www.swiftlinux.org and based on antiX Linux M11. There are two plain vanilla editions (Diet Swift Linux and Regular Swift Linux) and three special editions (Taylor Swift Linux, Minnesota Swift Linux, and Chicago Swift Linux). Minnesota Swift Linux features the Duluth lift bridge at login, the Spoonbridge and Cherry sculpture on the desktop, and audio clips of loons at startup. Yes, these special editions are inspired by Hannah Montana Linux. Swift Linux is lightweight, user-friendly, and fully compatible with the large Debian software repository. No other distro can compete with Swift Linux on all three of these criteria. If you wish that Puppy Linux had a large software repository, or if you wish that Linux Mint could be as lightweight as Puppy Linux, then this is the distro for you. Swift Linux gives that old computer a new lease on life! Windows XP support ends on April 8, 2014. Instead of spending hundreds of dollars on a new computer or slowing down your old computer with a costly and bloated "upgrade", make the REAL UPGRADE to Swift Linux. P.S. Swift Linux NEEDS more developers! The version control system is GitHub (https://github.com/swiftlinux), and the bug/goal tracker is Launchpad.net (https://launchpad.net/swiftlinux). Developers who have worked on any of the following distros are especially appreciated: Linux Mint (very successful track record and user-friendly) Puppy Linux (very lightweight and user-friendly) antiX Linux (parent distro of Swift Linux) MEPIS Linux (parent distro of antiX Linux) From jpschewe at mtu.net Mon May 30 17:11:56 2011 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 17:11:56 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu and aide Message-ID: <4DE4162C.2060605@mtu.net> Anyone out there running Ubuntu and aide? I'm finding that the mtime and ctime on my /etc directory changes every day and aide notes this. Has anyone else run into this or know what's going on? I'm sure the system is clean, has done it since the install before connected to the Internet. Jon From nesius at gmail.com Mon May 30 21:57:32 2011 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 21:57:32 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] new free book on "Architecture of Open Source Applications" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm looking forward to reading this. Thanks for sharing this link. -Rob On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 12:28 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > The book is made available under the Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 > Unported license: > > http://www.aosabook.org/en/index.html > > "The Architecture of Open Source Applications, Elegance, Evolution and a > Few Fearless Hacks." > > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: