From tclug at lizakowski.com Tue Jan 1 13:02:26 2008 From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 13:02:26 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Running without video In-Reply-To: <20071228212350.3x40iw3iso88g084@mail.dalan.us> References: <47759525.4070108@b-o-b.homelinux.com> <20071228212350.3x40iw3iso88g084@mail.dalan.us> Message-ID: <200801011302.26537.tclug@lizakowski.com> How can I run a box without a video card? My video card fan fried yesterday. The card still works, but something makes bad smells when it runs (I think it's the fan). I'd buy a new card, but the stores are closed today. I might try to salvage or improvise a fan from my pile of parts, but I was hoping I could just run the box headless. I tried booting without the card, but I can't ping the box. There weren't any beep codes. The HD light flashed a number of times, but not enough to indicate a full boot. I can powerdown with a quick press of the soft power button, so I'm guessing it's either a bios prompt or something early in the boot process. The mobo is a gigabyte ds3r for core2-quad, and doesn't have onboard video. What would be stopping the box from coming up? Is it a bios prompt, or is Linux expecting something? Jeremy From jpschewe at mtu.net Tue Jan 1 13:59:02 2008 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 13:59:02 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Running without video In-Reply-To: <200801011302.26537.tclug@lizakowski.com> References: <47759525.4070108@b-o-b.homelinux.com> <20071228212350.3x40iw3iso88g084@mail.dalan.us> <200801011302.26537.tclug@lizakowski.com> Message-ID: <477A9B86.7000104@mtu.net> Did the hard drive run long enough for linux to start? If you've got a graphical login going, then you might have a problem there. Otherwise you should be ok. One other thing, are you sure the speaker is hooked up? I've had that happen before and not noticed the bios beeps. It's also possible the bios is picky and won't boot without a video card. Jeremy wrote: > How can I run a box without a video card? My video card fan fried yesterday. > The card still works, but something makes bad smells when it runs (I think > it's the fan). > > I'd buy a new card, but the stores are closed today. I might try to salvage > or improvise a fan from my pile of parts, but I was hoping I could just run > the box headless. > > I tried booting without the card, but I can't ping the box. There weren't any > beep codes. The HD light flashed a number of times, but not enough to > indicate a full boot. I can powerdown with a quick press of the soft power > button, so I'm guessing it's either a bios prompt or something early in the > boot process. The mobo is a gigabyte ds3r for core2-quad, and doesn't have > onboard video. > > What would be stopping the box from coming up? Is it a bios prompt, or is > Linux expecting something? > > Jeremy > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital signature. See http://www.gnupg.org for more information. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From benjamin.gramlich at gmail.com Tue Jan 1 14:30:14 2008 From: benjamin.gramlich at gmail.com (Benjamin Gramlich) Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 14:30:14 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Running without video In-Reply-To: <200801011302.26537.tclug@lizakowski.com> References: <47759525.4070108@b-o-b.homelinux.com> <20071228212350.3x40iw3iso88g084@mail.dalan.us> <200801011302.26537.tclug@lizakowski.com> Message-ID: <1199219414.9511.0.camel@inspiron> A lot of desktop bios chips check for video memory/settings during the power on self test (POST). It might be that your system just won't boot without a video card. See http://www.computerhope.com/beep.htm#04 Ciao, benjamin On Tue, 2008-01-01 at 13:02 -0600, Jeremy wrote: > How can I run a box without a video card? My video card fan fried yesterday. > The card still works, but something makes bad smells when it runs (I think > it's the fan). > > I'd buy a new card, but the stores are closed today. I might try to salvage > or improvise a fan from my pile of parts, but I was hoping I could just run > the box headless. > > I tried booting without the card, but I can't ping the box. There weren't any > beep codes. The HD light flashed a number of times, but not enough to > indicate a full boot. I can powerdown with a quick press of the soft power > button, so I'm guessing it's either a bios prompt or something early in the > boot process. The mobo is a gigabyte ds3r for core2-quad, and doesn't have > onboard video. > > What would be stopping the box from coming up? Is it a bios prompt, or is > Linux expecting something? > > Jeremy > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at lizakowski.com Tue Jan 1 15:18:59 2008 From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 15:18:59 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Running without video In-Reply-To: <200801011302.26537.tclug@lizakowski.com> References: <47759525.4070108@b-o-b.homelinux.com> <20071228212350.3x40iw3iso88g084@mail.dalan.us> <200801011302.26537.tclug@lizakowski.com> Message-ID: <200801011518.59823.tclug@lizakowski.com> I dug around and found an old Diamond Stealth 64 (circa 2001). It booted just fine. X won't run, but I don't really need it on that machine. I'm still curious what hung up. Since there were no beep codes, and the hard drive showed a little bit of activity, I'm tempted to think it wasn't bios. Jeremy On Tuesday 01 January 2008 1:02:26 pm Jeremy wrote: > How can I run a box without a video card? My video card fan fried > yesterday. The card still works, but something makes bad smells when it > runs (I think it's the fan). > > I'd buy a new card, but the stores are closed today. I might try to > salvage or improvise a fan from my pile of parts, but I was hoping I could > just run the box headless. > > I tried booting without the card, but I can't ping the box. There weren't > any beep codes. The HD light flashed a number of times, but not enough to > indicate a full boot. I can powerdown with a quick press of the soft power > button, so I'm guessing it's either a bios prompt or something early in the > boot process. The mobo is a gigabyte ds3r for core2-quad, and doesn't have > onboard video. > > What would be stopping the box from coming up? Is it a bios prompt, or is > Linux expecting something? > > Jeremy > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trnja001 at umn.edu Tue Jan 1 15:22:29 2008 From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin) Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 15:22:29 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Running without video In-Reply-To: <200801011518.59823.tclug@lizakowski.com> References: <47759525.4070108@b-o-b.homelinux.com> <20071228212350.3x40iw3iso88g084@mail.dalan.us> <200801011302.26537.tclug@lizakowski.com> <200801011518.59823.tclug@lizakowski.com> Message-ID: <477AAF15.9010302@umn.edu> Your BIOS is probably set to halt on certain errors, such as no keyboard which would also include no video card. The new ones will have a feature that will not make it stop at any error. Look around the BIOS settings for it. Jeremy wrote: > I dug around and found an old Diamond Stealth 64 (circa 2001). It booted just > fine. X won't run, but I don't really need it on that machine. > > I'm still curious what hung up. Since there were no beep codes, and the hard > drive showed a little bit of activity, I'm tempted to think it wasn't bios. > > Jeremy > > On Tuesday 01 January 2008 1:02:26 pm Jeremy wrote: > >> How can I run a box without a video card? My video card fan fried >> yesterday. The card still works, but something makes bad smells when it >> runs (I think it's the fan). >> >> I'd buy a new card, but the stores are closed today. I might try to >> salvage or improvise a fan from my pile of parts, but I was hoping I could >> just run the box headless. >> >> I tried booting without the card, but I can't ping the box. There weren't >> any beep codes. The HD light flashed a number of times, but not enough to >> indicate a full boot. I can powerdown with a quick press of the soft power >> button, so I'm guessing it's either a bios prompt or something early in the >> boot process. The mobo is a gigabyte ds3r for core2-quad, and doesn't have >> onboard video. >> >> What would be stopping the box from coming up? Is it a bios prompt, or is >> Linux expecting something? >> >> Jeremy >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From kjh at flyballdogs.com Tue Jan 1 15:39:56 2008 From: kjh at flyballdogs.com (Kathryn Hogg) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 15:39:56 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Running without video In-Reply-To: <477AAF15.9010302@umn.edu> References: <47759525.4070108@b-o-b.homelinux.com> <20071228212350.3x40iw3iso88g084@mail.dalan.us> <200801011302.26537.tclug@lizakowski.com> <200801011518.59823.tclug@lizakowski.com> <477AAF15.9010302@umn.edu> Message-ID: <28148.192.168.0.7.1199223596.squirrel@flyballdogs.com> Elvedin Trnjanin wrote: > Your BIOS is probably set to halt on certain errors, such as no keyboard > which would also include no video card. The new ones will have a feature > that will not make it stop at any error. Look around the BIOS settings > for it. I'm kinda curious how you would do that without a functioning video card? -- Kathryn http://womensfooty.com From trnja001 at umn.edu Tue Jan 1 15:47:12 2008 From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin) Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 15:47:12 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Running without video In-Reply-To: <28148.192.168.0.7.1199223596.squirrel@flyballdogs.com> References: <47759525.4070108@b-o-b.homelinux.com> <20071228212350.3x40iw3iso88g084@mail.dalan.us> <200801011302.26537.tclug@lizakowski.com> <200801011518.59823.tclug@lizakowski.com> <477AAF15.9010302@umn.edu> <28148.192.168.0.7.1199223596.squirrel@flyballdogs.com> Message-ID: <477AB4E0.4050306@umn.edu> Kathryn Hogg wrote: > Elvedin Trnjanin wrote: > >> Your BIOS is probably set to halt on certain errors, such as no keyboard >> which would also include no video card. The new ones will have a feature >> that will not make it stop at any error. Look around the BIOS settings >> for it. >> > > I'm kinda curious how you would do that without a functioning video card? > > You couldn't but he has said that he found another video card that works. From nassarmu at beitsahour.net Wed Jan 2 14:34:19 2008 From: nassarmu at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 14:34:19 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Security concerns for local traffic In-Reply-To: <741dcbb80712300012g5e668585o60c37473d6f6158@mail.gmail.com> References: <741dcbb80712300012g5e668585o60c37473d6f6158@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <477BF54B.4060305@beitsahour.net> Brock Noland wrote: > Greetings, > > Many people are using pound ( http://www.apsis.ch/pound/ ) to proxy > traffic from port 443 to another port using the local interface. > > > i've used pound to greatly expand the capacity of single threaded java webserver on a 8core system. very slick. unwrapping the ssl traffic to pass onto non-ssled webservers does slightly increase your exposure. If at some point a root exploit or privilege escalation was discovered in your system it would make it easier for an attacker to sniff the traffic. (ok, so i have never actually tried to sniff on lo, but i imagine it would work) yep, i just tried and i was able to capture my local nfs traffic. It really does depend on how much you trust the local machine, for a secure webserver there should not be such a thing a local user other than the one you use to admin the server, there also should be a strong firewall protecting you both ways limiting access. From tclug at beitsahour.net Wed Jan 2 14:44:01 2008 From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 14:44:01 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Old Machine Running Modern Distro In-Reply-To: <476FBABA.9050203@twp-llc.com> References: <476FBABA.9050203@twp-llc.com> Message-ID: <477BF791.3010006@beitsahour.net> Chris Schumann wrote: > I would really appreciate any tips on how to get the rest of the system > working: Function keys, sound, TrackPoint, suspend/resume. > > If anyone is up for porting the WD90C24 video driver to X.org, that > would be most appreciated! :) I might actually be able to help with > that one. > have you tried the VESA driver? From andyzib at gmail.com Wed Jan 2 17:33:22 2008 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 17:33:22 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Running without video In-Reply-To: <1199219414.9511.0.camel@inspiron> References: <47759525.4070108@b-o-b.homelinux.com> <20071228212350.3x40iw3iso88g084@mail.dalan.us> <200801011302.26537.tclug@lizakowski.com> <1199219414.9511.0.camel@inspiron> Message-ID: On Jan 1, 2008 2:30 PM, Benjamin Gramlich wrote: > A lot of desktop bios chips check for video memory/settings during the > power on self test (POST). It might be that your system just won't boot > without a video card. It depends on the motherboard if you get BIOS error beeps or not. I've run into plenty of motherboards that won't do a thing until a video card is properly seated. Then they'll start with the error beeps if there is a different problem. :) As for the how you would configure it if you don't have a video card, well most server boards have an integrated video card so that's not an option. Those that don't have a serial console or network accessible remote access solution built in. Spend the extra $20 and get a cheap video card in your server. It will save you time and frustration in the long run. :) -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com From austad at signal15.com Wed Jan 2 23:16:51 2008 From: austad at signal15.com (Jay Austad) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 23:16:51 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Dreambox or linvdr users? Message-ID: Anyone using these? Looking for a good DVB/FTA solution. The PVR on my Viewsat sucks. Feel free to email me privately. Thanks! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 1644 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080102/96ebdced/attachment.bin From tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com Thu Jan 3 09:56:18 2008 From: tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com (Robert De Mars) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 09:56:18 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Book Shelf Cleaning - Free Books!!! Message-ID: <477D05A2.9070002@b-o-b.homelinux.com> Forgive me for writing directly to the group, but I could not get the TCLUG classified ad to post properly. I did a little cleaning on my book shelves, and I have the following books I am going to be getting rid of. The books are free to anyone who wants any or all of them. Please contact me off list if you are interested. Bob 612 850 6940 The complete list of books I have available can be found at: http://b-o-b.homelinux.com/books.html Quickbooks 2003 - The Offical Guide NT workstation 4 - Exam Cram Red Hat 7 - Unleashed - Sams Red Hat Certified Engineer - Third Edition - Exam RM302 Red Hat Linux 7 - Weekend Crash Course Red Hat 7 Bible General Linux I - Exam 101 - Exam Prep Citrix Metafram Administration - Version 1.8 MVS TSO - part 1: concepts and ispf MVS TSO - part 2: commands & procedures MCSE Complete - NT4 MCSE - Windows 2000 Building a network Cold fusion 4.0 - app. development Beginning VB6 MS Site Server 3 - bible MCSE - IIS4 Teach yourself VB6 in 24 hours MS Windows 2000 Pro MS Windows 2000 Pro - lab manual MS Visual InterDev 6.0 programmers guide Hardware Bible - 5th edition Network+ certification - 2nd edition Database Management Systems - 3rd edition Coreldraw 9 for dummies Systems analysis & design - 3rd edition Insight Guides - Spain DB2 for the Cobol Management Information systems - managing the digital firm MS VB6 developers workshop - 5th edition Palm OS programming for dummies Mike Meyers A+ Certification - 4th edition All in one A+ Certification guide Windows 98 Bible A+ certification study guide - 2nd edition Instant ASP Components Java 2 - Black Book O'Reilly - Programming c# C# Programming C++ by example Sams teach yourself e-commerce programming with ASP ASP for dummies Introducing .NET Preview of ASP+ CCNA Exam Cram - Exam 640-507 3rd edition Cisco Systems - Internet Routing Architectures XML programming with VB & ASP From florin at iucha.net Thu Jan 3 11:41:36 2008 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 11:41:36 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] reputable seller for ipaq 3600 batteries? Message-ID: <20080103174136.GG14624@iris.iucha.org> Hello, Can anbody recommend a reputable place to buy a replacement battery for a Compaq iPaq 3600 PDA? I STFW and got waay too many hits, and from my past experience with laptop and iPod batteries I know this is quite a shady business. If you bought a replacement battery for ipaq and it held appropriate charge after a few months, please let me know. Thanks, florin -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080103/c9e376d2/attachment.pgp From cschumann at twp-llc.com Thu Jan 3 12:18:38 2008 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 12:18:38 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Old Machine Running Modern Distro In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48942.192.28.2.17.1199384318.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com> > Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 14:44:01 -0600 > From: Munir Nassar > Chris Schumann wrote: >> I would really appreciate any tips on how to get the rest of the >> system working: Function keys, sound, TrackPoint, suspend/resume. > have you tried the VESA driver? The machine is not VESA compliant. IBM did make a VESA TSR for DOS so Windows 95 could use VESA, but that won't work with Linux. Right now, X does sometimes start, but the video chip and video memory aren't detected properly and it starts in 320x200x1 bit mode, which isn't very usable. Even VGA with 640x480x4 bits would be much better, and 640x480x8 bits is as good as the machine can do. Would a dump of the X log be helpful? Chris From john.meier at gmail.com Thu Jan 3 13:36:28 2008 From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 13:36:28 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] reputable seller for ipaq 3600 batteries? In-Reply-To: <20080103174136.GG14624@iris.iucha.org> References: <20080103174136.GG14624@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: <65293fcc0801031136t75c03689u80106bb3c206dcd9@mail.gmail.com> http://www.batteriesplus.com/products/62-0/6673-PDA-Batteries/307029-Compaq/iPAQ-3600/1.aspx ???? On Jan 3, 2008 11:41 AM, Florin Iucha wrote: > Hello, > > Can anbody recommend a reputable place to buy a replacement battery for > a Compaq iPaq 3600 PDA? I STFW and got waay too many hits, and from my > past experience with laptop and iPod batteries I know this is quite a > shady business. > > If you bought a replacement battery for ipaq and it held appropriate > charge after a few months, please let me know. > > Thanks, > florin > > -- > Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. > http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080103/1d41ced1/attachment.htm From wdtj at yahoo.com Thu Jan 3 15:58:24 2008 From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 13:58:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for Senior Technical Writer Message-ID: <616386.93013.qm@web53802.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MQSoftware is looking for a Senior Technical Writer to work here in Minneapolis. Should be fluent in Framework and be able to create HTML help pages. Contact me for an introduction. --- Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those 3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, (612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080103/e4cf444a/attachment.htm From dniesen at gmail.com Thu Jan 3 16:41:40 2008 From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 16:41:40 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: looking for server memory Message-ID: <47f4d5e70801031441p5206232cldf0e2af17f955542@mail.gmail.com> Anybody know where I could get some DDR2-5300 1GB ECC Non-Registered memory in town? I'm looking for a matching pair and Nano only has a single stick. MicroCenter and BestBuy don't really seem to carry anything beyond desktop memory. I have a pair of DDR2-5300 1GB ECC Registered memory if anybody has some they'd like to trade. -- Donovan Niesen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080103/e3b1e0c2/attachment.htm From austad at signal15.com Fri Jan 4 14:43:11 2008 From: austad at signal15.com (Jay Austad) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 14:43:11 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Dreambox or LinVDR users? Message-ID: <99680C5B-94D6-4492-91B0-E5037DF93103@signal15.com> Anyone using these? Looking for a good DVB/FTA solution. The PVR on my Viewsat sucks. Thanks! From bunjee at charter.net Fri Jan 4 18:14:37 2008 From: bunjee at charter.net (Danny) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 18:14:37 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Installing Programs with Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1199492077.7785.1.camel@patty> Can anyone out there help me install lightscribe . I am still new to Linux and have had a hard time understanding how to install stuff with Ubuntu. On Fri, 2008-01-04 at 12:00 -0600, tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org wrote: > Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Old Machine Running Modern Distro (Chris Schumann) > 2. Re: reputable seller for ipaq 3600 batteries? (John Meier) > 3. Looking for Senior Technical Writer (Wayne Johnson) > 4. OT: looking for server memory (Donovan) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 12:18:38 -0600 (CST) > From: "Chris Schumann" > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Old Machine Running Modern Distro > To: > Message-ID: <48942.192.28.2.17.1199384318.squirrel at alpha.twp-llc.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 14:44:01 -0600 > > From: Munir Nassar > > > Chris Schumann wrote: > >> I would really appreciate any tips on how to get the rest of the > >> system working: Function keys, sound, TrackPoint, suspend/resume. > > > have you tried the VESA driver? > > The machine is not VESA compliant. IBM did make a VESA TSR for DOS so > Windows 95 could use VESA, but that won't work with Linux. > > Right now, X does sometimes start, but the video chip and video memory > aren't detected properly and it starts in 320x200x1 bit mode, which isn't > very usable. Even VGA with 640x480x4 bits would be much better, and > 640x480x8 bits is as good as the machine can do. > > Would a dump of the X log be helpful? > > Chris > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 13:36:28 -0600 > From: "John Meier" > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] reputable seller for ipaq 3600 batteries? > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Message-ID: > <65293fcc0801031136t75c03689u80106bb3c206dcd9 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > http://www.batteriesplus.com/products/62-0/6673-PDA-Batteries/307029-Compaq/iPAQ-3600/1.aspx > ???? > > On Jan 3, 2008 11:41 AM, Florin Iucha wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > Can anbody recommend a reputable place to buy a replacement battery for > > a Compaq iPaq 3600 PDA? I STFW and got waay too many hits, and from my > > past experience with laptop and iPod batteries I know this is quite a > > shady business. > > > > If you bought a replacement battery for ipaq and it held appropriate > > charge after a few months, please let me know. > > > > Thanks, > > florin > > > > -- > > Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. > > http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080103/1d41ced1/attachment.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 13:58:24 -0800 (PST) > From: Wayne Johnson > Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for Senior Technical Writer > To: Twin Cities Linux Users Group , > tclug-jobs at mn-linux.org > Message-ID: <616386.93013.qm at web53802.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > MQSoftware is looking for a Senior Technical Writer to work here in Minneapolis. Should be fluent in Framework and be able to create HTML help pages. > > > > Contact me for an introduction. > > > --- > Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those > 3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," > Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, > (612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080103/e4cf444a/attachment-0001.htm > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 16:41:40 -0600 > From: Donovan > Subject: [tclug-list] OT: looking for server memory > To: "tclug-list at mn-linux.org" > Message-ID: > <47f4d5e70801031441p5206232cldf0e2af17f955542 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Anybody know where I could get some DDR2-5300 1GB ECC Non-Registered memory > in town? I'm looking for a matching pair and Nano only has a single stick. > MicroCenter and BestBuy don't really seem to carry anything beyond desktop > memory. > > I have a pair of DDR2-5300 1GB ECC Registered memory if anybody has some > they'd like to trade. > From gabeo at bitstream.net Sat Jan 5 12:25:43 2008 From: gabeo at bitstream.net (Gabe Ormsby) Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 12:25:43 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Installing Programs with Ubuntu Message-ID: <477FCBA7.9060004@bitstream.net> Danny, Have you looked through the community docs at the Ubuntu web site? I found this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LightScribe Those are instructions for Feisty, most likely (given the date), but may well work for Gutsy as well. Apparently the Linux version of LightScribe is available as an RPM package, which is not Ubuntu's normal package format, so a program called Alien is used to convert the RPM into a DEB package, Ubuntu's normal format. The most common way to install programs in Ubuntu is to use Synaptic Package Manager to search the repositories and install. If you would like a quick run through of that, let me know - I'll fire up my 'buntu box and we can chat on the phone or on irc. -Gabe -- Gabe Ormsby home 612/872-7283 work 651/222-2193 mobile 651/216-0055 From dniesen at gmail.com Sat Jan 5 15:53:45 2008 From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 15:53:45 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] eBook reader w/ PDF support Message-ID: <47f4d5e70801051353kd0c1ed5tf1a0e81c72f70cb5@mail.gmail.com> I've tried digging around a bit and can't seem to find a good ebook reader with PDF support for Linux. I'm just looking for something that might handle bookmarking so I can keep my place when I close my document. Any other booky features would just be a bonus (as would a Debian/Ubuntu repo containing said ebook reader). Does anyone know of any that my Google skills aren't finding? -- Donovan Niesen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080105/f90c0bbe/attachment.htm From jpschewe at mtu.net Sat Jan 5 20:20:13 2008 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 20:20:13 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] apache2 slow on debian etch Message-ID: <47803ADD.4090407@mtu.net> I'm trying to upgrade my webserver from apache 1.3 to apache 2.2. It's running Debian etch and requires php (4 or 5). I see that since I need php I need to run the prefork, which should be fine as that's what I run on my opensuse systems. So I added the apache2 packages along with the php5 modules for apache2 and checked that everything worked on port 81. Then I shutdown apache 1.3 and restart apache2 on port 80. My load average went through the roof. It seems that apache2 was always busy doing something so it forked off as many processes as I would allow it and never went down for 3 days. I switched back to apache 1.3 and my load average immediately dropped. I checked the modules and it appears that I'm running all the equivalent modules. Does anyone have any ideas what would cause apache2 to serve up pages so slow? -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital signature. See http://www.gnupg.org for more information. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From jimdscott at gmail.com Sun Jan 6 09:40:03 2008 From: jimdscott at gmail.com (Jim Scott) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 09:40:03 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Fedora 8 spontaneous reboot Message-ID: My Fedora 8 system (x86_64, kernel 2.6.23.9-85) started to spontaneously reboot this week. From what I've read, it's most likely a motherboard or power supply failure. Is there anything I can do with Fedora to help troubleshoot this? /var/log/messages doesn't seem to tell me anything useful. The last reboot came around 9:20. Jan 6 08:50:44 MainPC yum: Updated: mythtv-setup - 0.20.2-170.fc8.x86_64 Jan 6 08:55:37 MainPC ntpd[2154]: synchronized to 216.14.98.234, stratum 2 Jan 6 09:20:23 MainPC rsyslogd: [origin software="rsyslogd" swVersion=" 1.19.11" x-pid="2015"][x-configInfo udpReception="No" udpPort="514" tcpReception="No" tcpPort="0"] restart Jan 6 09:20:23 MainPC kernel: rklogd 1.19.11, log source = /proc/kmsg started. Is there anything I can do to enable more logging of this issue? Here's my rsyslog.conf: # Log all kernel messages to the console. # Logging much else clutters up the screen. #kern.* /dev/console # Log anything (except mail) of level info or higher. # Don't log private authentication messages! *.info;mail.none;authpriv.none;cron.none /var/log/messages # The authpriv file has restricted access. authpriv.* /var/log/secure # Log all the mail messages in one place. mail.* -/var/log/maillog # Log cron stuff cron.* /var/log/cron # Everybody gets emergency messages *.emerg * # Save news errors of level crit and higher in a special file. uucp,news.crit /var/log/spooler # Save boot messages also to boot.log local7.* /var/log/boot.log -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080106/befb6406/attachment.htm From tclug at lizakowski.com Sun Jan 6 11:59:46 2008 From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 11:59:46 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Fedora 8 spontaneous reboot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200801061159.46701.tclug@lizakowski.com> You might be able to look at lmsensors (if supported by your hardware) to check for temperatures. Also SMART tools can report on drive health. If possible, remove as much hardware as possible, and see if it still reboots. Maybe even swap out some hardware with another PC to identify the component(s) causing the issue. Jeremy On Sunday 06 January 2008 9:40:03 am Jim Scott wrote: > My Fedora 8 system (x86_64, kernel 2.6.23.9-85) started to spontaneously > reboot this week. From what I've read, it's most likely a motherboard or > power supply failure. Is there anything I can do with Fedora to help > troubleshoot this? > > /var/log/messages doesn't seem to tell me anything useful. The last reboot > came around 9:20. > > Jan 6 08:50:44 MainPC yum: Updated: mythtv-setup - 0.20.2-170.fc8.x86_64 > Jan 6 08:55:37 MainPC ntpd[2154]: synchronized to 216.14.98.234, stratum 2 > Jan 6 09:20:23 MainPC rsyslogd: [origin software="rsyslogd" swVersion=" > 1.19.11" x-pid="2015"][x-configInfo udpReception="No" udpPort="514" > tcpReception="No" tcpPort="0"] restart > Jan 6 09:20:23 MainPC kernel: rklogd 1.19.11, log source = /proc/kmsg > started. > > Is there anything I can do to enable more logging of this issue? Here's my > rsyslog.conf: > > # Log all kernel messages to the console. > # Logging much else clutters up the screen. > #kern.* /dev/console > > # Log anything (except mail) of level info or higher. > # Don't log private authentication messages! > *.info;mail.none;authpriv.none;cron.none /var/log/messages > > # The authpriv file has restricted access. > authpriv.* /var/log/secure > > # Log all the mail messages in one place. > mail.* -/var/log/maillog > > > # Log cron stuff > cron.* /var/log/cron > > # Everybody gets emergency messages > *.emerg * > > # Save news errors of level crit and higher in a special file. > uucp,news.crit /var/log/spooler > > # Save boot messages also to boot.log > local7.* /var/log/boot.log From jpschewe at mtu.net Sun Jan 6 15:00:14 2008 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 15:00:14 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Fedora 8 spontaneous reboot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4781415E.6020703@mtu.net> Check /var/log/acpid (or whereever acpid logs for you) and see if you got a power button message about then. I had this problem on a machine at work and I've had to disable the power button in acpi. Jim Scott wrote: > My Fedora 8 system (x86_64, kernel 2.6.23.9-85) started to > spontaneously reboot this week. From what I've read, it's most likely > a motherboard or power supply failure. Is there anything I can do with > Fedora to help troubleshoot this? > > /var/log/messages doesn't seem to tell me anything useful. The last > reboot came around 9:20. > > Jan 6 08:50:44 MainPC yum: Updated: mythtv-setup - 0.20.2-170.fc8.x86_64 > Jan 6 08:55:37 MainPC ntpd[2154]: synchronized to 216.14.98.234 > , stratum 2 > Jan 6 09:20:23 MainPC rsyslogd: [origin software="rsyslogd" > swVersion="1.19.11" x-pid="2015"][x-configInfo udpReception="No" > udpPort="514" tcpReception="No" tcpPort="0"] restart > Jan 6 09:20:23 MainPC kernel: rklogd 1.19.11, log source = /proc/kmsg > started. > > Is there anything I can do to enable more logging of this issue? > Here's my rsyslog.conf: > > # Log all kernel messages to the console. > # Logging much else clutters up the screen. > #kern.* /dev/console > > # Log anything (except mail) of level info or higher. > # Don't log private authentication messages! > *.info;mail.none;authpriv.none;cron.none /var/log/messages > > # The authpriv file has restricted access. > authpriv.* /var/log/secure > > # Log all the mail messages in one place. > mail.* -/var/log/maillog > > > # Log cron stuff > cron.* /var/log/cron > > # Everybody gets emergency messages > *.emerg * > > # Save news errors of level crit and higher in a special file. > uucp,news.crit /var/log/spooler > > # Save boot messages also to boot.log > local7.* /var/log/boot.log > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital signature. See http://www.gnupg.org for more information. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080106/46bee116/attachment.htm From jimdscott at gmail.com Sun Jan 6 18:58:18 2008 From: jimdscott at gmail.com (Jim Scott) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 18:58:18 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Fedora 8 spontaneous reboot In-Reply-To: <4781415E.6020703@mtu.net> References: <4781415E.6020703@mtu.net> Message-ID: On Jan 6, 2008 3:00 PM, Jon Schewe wrote: > Check /var/log/acpid (or whereever acpid logs for you) and see if you got > a power button message about then. I had this problem on a machine at work > and I've had to disable the power button in acpi. > > Thanks for the suggestion, Jon. Here's my acpid log for today: [Sat Dec 15 07:59:03 2007] starting up [Sat Dec 15 07:59:03 2007] 1 rule loaded [Sat Dec 15 07:59:21 2007] client connected from 2530[68:68] [Sat Dec 15 07:59:21 2007] 1 client rule loaded [Sat Dec 15 07:59:30 2007] client connected from 2742[0:0] [Sat Dec 15 07:59:30 2007] 1 client rule loaded [Sat Dec 15 07:59:31 2007] client connected from 2742[0:0] [Sat Dec 15 07:59:31 2007] 1 client rule loaded [Sat Dec 15 10:40:55 2007] exiting I don't see anything there since the Dec. 15 entries. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080106/6b4456e0/attachment.htm From crumley at fields.space.umn.edu Mon Jan 7 10:52:34 2008 From: crumley at fields.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 10:52:34 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] eBook reader w/ PDF support In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70801051353kd0c1ed5tf1a0e81c72f70cb5@mail.gmail.com> References: <47f4d5e70801051353kd0c1ed5tf1a0e81c72f70cb5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080107105234.A4708@belka.space.umn.edu> On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 03:53:45PM -0600, Donovan wrote: > I've tried digging around a bit and can't seem to find a good ebook reader > with PDF support for Linux. I'm just looking for something that might > handle bookmarking so I can keep my place when I close my document. Any > other booky features would just be a bonus (as would a Debian/Ubuntu repo > containing said ebook reader). Both evince and kpdf (which are in main on Debian) automatically save your spot when you close the pdfs. See http://polishlinux.org/apps/pdf-viewers-for-linux-compared/ for a decent review of the options. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons | From andrew.vonnagy at comcast.net Mon Jan 7 11:26:57 2008 From: andrew.vonnagy at comcast.net (Andrew von Nagy) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 11:26:57 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Wireless Security Message-ID: <003501c85152$813f8150$040a0a0a@W4NM4N02> Hey Everyone, If anyone is interested in wireless security, I will be leading a SANS mentor class in the twin cities area this spring. It will be a technical course detailing the risks and vulnerabilities of wireless networks, as well as how to properly secure them. The course includes wireless hardware (Linksys AP, Atheros Cardbus, GPS unit, directional antenna) and multiple hands-on labs using the Backtrack 2 live distro. We'll go through some fun labs including attacks on WEP, LEAP, WPA, hotspots, and clients using various tools such as Kismet, aircrack-ng, asleap, coWPAtty, and AirPWN. It will be a really fun class. Registration and more info can be found on the SANS website, here: http://www.sans.org/mentor/details.php?nid=9576 &portal=9e0dc1cf9ae5c9ae28f5a868ab5c7f06 I am planning on attending the next TCLUG meeting, which will be my first since I am new to the twin cities. Please feel free to contact me at the meeting or via email if you have any questions. Also, please feel free to forward if you know someone who may be interested. Regards, Andrew von Nagy CCSP, GAWN, GCFW, GCIA, CWNA Andrew.vonNagy at comcast.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080107/a559f4c1/attachment.htm From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Mon Jan 7 14:12:09 2008 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 14:12:09 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] US Bank and OFX / aqbanking Message-ID: <20080107141209.24220264@prokofiev.trutwins.homeip.net> I'm a new convert from QuickBooks to GnuCash and I must admit I like it a lot. Plus I don't have to give Intuit another f'ing penny. One nagging feature that I do not get with GnuCash is easy bank statement downloads which would be nice. GnuCash has a list of banks that support OFX download with libaqbanking here: http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/OFX_Direct_Connect_Bank_Settings US Bank is not listed though - has anyone succesfully downloaded bank statements in either gnucash / kmymoney / etc with US Bank? I could call them to see if they support direct OFX connection but the thought of talking to one of their "support techs" and mentioning an acronym like OFX makes me want to take a shot of brandy. Thanks, Josh From anna2edw at yahoo.com Mon Jan 7 16:45:25 2008 From: anna2edw at yahoo.com (Anna Edwards) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 14:45:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] eBook reader w/ PDF support In-Reply-To: <20080107105234.A4708@belka.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <121918.11264.qm@web33702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> hmm... *thinks for 2 seconds* have you heard of adobe reader? free (in a sence), avalable via the add remote programs mechanism, and version 8 plays sounds lol not sure v8 is in repos but if not, just google adobe reader 8 click the first link, choose dif os choose debian linux (se, adobes website chooses the option of rpm automatically and that'll screw up your system) run it, if it has license agreement in the dumb terminal, press tab+enter and it will shut up and just show progress in the window Jim Crumley wrote: > On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 03:53:45PM -0600, Donovan wrote: >> I've tried digging around a bit and can't seem to find a good ebook reader >> with PDF support for Linux. I'm just looking for something that might >> handle bookmarking so I can keep my place when I close my document. Any >> other booky features would just be a bonus (as would a Debian/Ubuntu repo >> containing said ebook reader). > Both evince and kpdf (which are in main on Debian) automatically > save your spot when you close the pdfs. See > http://polishlinux.org/apps/pdf-viewers-for-linux-compared/ > for a decent review of the options. > -- > Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) > Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ > Never laugh at live dragons | > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping From dniesen at gmail.com Mon Jan 7 18:16:36 2008 From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 18:16:36 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] US Bank and OFX / aqbanking In-Reply-To: <20080107141209.24220264@prokofiev.trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20080107141209.24220264@prokofiev.trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <47f4d5e70801071616v67e07eebv86279ab99bb8ca1b@mail.gmail.com> From webmaster at mn-linux.org Mon Jan 7 19:10:16 2008 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 19:10:16 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200801080110.m081AGl24000@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: Want to Buy Subject: I need a 10GB Western Digital I am looking for a 10GB Western Digital hard drive model number WD100EB-11BHF0. It needs to be that exact model. This drive is out of a Dell computer but other OEM's may have used it as well Thanks for your help. Jon Dabrowski Seller Email address: jon at sominica dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From jeruvin at gmail.com Tue Jan 8 13:00:44 2008 From: jeruvin at gmail.com (jason reynolds) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 13:00:44 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad In-Reply-To: <200801080110.m081AGl24000@crusader.real-time.com> References: <200801080110.m081AGl24000@crusader.real-time.com> Message-ID: <6eb23c4e0801081100p684eb7aaqd1e3321edf317b44@mail.gmail.com> stumbled on this, not sure if it's what you need. http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/sys/532037153.html jason On Jan 7, 2008 7:10 PM, TCLUG Classifieds wrote: > New TCLUG Classified Ad > > Category: Computer > > Type of Ad: Want to Buy > > Subject: I need a 10GB Western Digital > > I am looking for a 10GB Western Digital hard drive model number > WD100EB-11BHF0. It needs to be that exact model. This drive is out of a Dell > computer but other OEM's may have used it as well > > Thanks for your help. > Jon Dabrowski > > Seller Email address: jon at sominica dot com > > http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080108/951fbaba/attachment.htm From austad at signal15.com Tue Jan 8 22:07:54 2008 From: austad at signal15.com (Jay Austad) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 22:07:54 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] test message to the list Message-ID: Two of my messages didn't make it last week. Just checking out what's going on. -- jay austad | 612.423.1433 | austad at signal15.com From jeruvin at gmail.com Tue Jan 8 22:17:04 2008 From: jeruvin at gmail.com (jason reynolds) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 22:17:04 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] test message to the list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6eb23c4e0801082017i4248472ds1081e090c63e044d@mail.gmail.com> received. jason On Jan 8, 2008 10:07 PM, Jay Austad wrote: > Two of my messages didn't make it last week. Just checking out what's > going on. > > -- > jay austad | 612.423.1433 | austad at signal15.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080108/9ebc73f8/attachment.htm From anna2edw at yahoo.com Wed Jan 9 07:02:16 2008 From: anna2edw at yahoo.com (Anna Edwards) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 05:02:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] test message to the list In-Reply-To: <6eb23c4e0801082017i4248472ds1081e090c63e044d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <666165.68857.qm@web33708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> how do you text message the list. 1) get a yahoo acct 2) on your phone go to yahoo.com 3) log in 4) send the email lol that what you mean? or do you mean solid sms messages? i use the first idea ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From ecrist at secure-computing.net Wed Jan 9 08:46:08 2008 From: ecrist at secure-computing.net (Eric F Crist) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 08:46:08 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] test message to the list In-Reply-To: <666165.68857.qm@web33708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <666165.68857.qm@web33708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Anna, First off, he said TEST, not TEXT. Second, sarcastic messages are not *always* required, and are almost _never_ helpful or appreciated. Eric Crist On Jan 9, 2008, at 7:02 AM, Anna Edwards wrote: > how do you text message the list. 1) get a yahoo acct 2) on your > phone go to yahoo.com 3) log in 4) send the email lol that what you > mean? or do you mean solid sms messages? i use the first idea > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ----- Eric F Crist Secure Computing Networks From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Wed Jan 9 11:20:58 2008 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 11:20:58 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] eBook reader w/ PDF support In-Reply-To: <121918.11264.qm@web33702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20080107105234.A4708@belka.space.umn.edu> <121918.11264.qm@web33702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20080109112057.A23109@pchelka.space.umn.edu> On Mon, Jan 07, 2008 at 02:45:25PM -0800, Anna Edwards wrote: First off, top posting to technical email list is bad. Please stop. See for example: http://catb.org/~esr//jargon/html/T/top-post.html > hmm... *thinks for 2 seconds* have you heard of adobe reader? > free (in a sence), avalable via the add remote programs > mechanism, and version 8 plays sounds lol not sure v8 is in > repos but if not, just google adobe reader 8 click the first > link, choose dif os choose debian linux (se, adobes website > chooses the option of rpm automatically and that'll screw > up your system) run it, if it has license agreement in the dumb > terminal, press tab+enter and it will shut up and just show > progress in the window Adobe reader is bloated and slow. The free software alternatives are smaller, faster, and generally work better. Most important of all, it is a pain to get acroread that saves your place in a file when you close it, while kpdf in particular, offers a very nice bookmarking feature. Jim > Jim Crumley wrote: > > On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 03:53:45PM -0600, Donovan wrote: > >> I've tried digging around a bit and can't seem to find a good ebook reader > >> with PDF support for Linux. I'm just looking for something that might > >> handle bookmarking so I can keep my place when I close my document. Any > >> other booky features would just be a bonus (as would a Debian/Ubuntu repo > >> containing said ebook reader). > > Both evince and kpdf (which are in main on Debian) automatically > > save your spot when you close the pdfs. See > > http://polishlinux.org/apps/pdf-viewers-for-linux-compared/ > > for a decent review of the options. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons | From trnja001 at umn.edu Wed Jan 9 11:33:14 2008 From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 11:33:14 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] eBook reader w/ PDF support In-Reply-To: <20080109112057.A23109@pchelka.space.umn.edu> References: <20080107105234.A4708@belka.space.umn.edu> <121918.11264.qm@web33702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20080109112057.A23109@pchelka.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <4785055A.80201@umn.edu> But if everyone top posts, this isn't a problem. Rather than going from oldest to newest, why not in reverse? It makes more sense to me if you're following a topic as most do on a technical list. Jim Crumley wrote: > On Mon, Jan 07, 2008 at 02:45:25PM -0800, Anna Edwards wrote: > > First off, top posting to technical email list is bad. Please > stop. See for example: > http://catb.org/~esr//jargon/html/T/top-post.html > From srcfoo at gmail.com Wed Jan 9 12:31:58 2008 From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 12:31:58 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] eBook reader w/ PDF support In-Reply-To: <4785055A.80201@umn.edu> References: <20080107105234.A4708@belka.space.umn.edu> <121918.11264.qm@web33702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20080109112057.A23109@pchelka.space.umn.edu> <4785055A.80201@umn.edu> Message-ID: <579c6fd30801091031x183a8ba6t3782256f790574f0@mail.gmail.com> On 1/9/08, Elvedin Trnjanin wrote: > But if everyone top posts, this isn't a problem. Rather than going from > oldest to newest, why not in reverse? It makes more sense to me if > you're following a topic as most do on a technical list. The link posted by Jim clearly states why it's a bad idea to top-post. While it may (emphasis on MAY) make sense chronilogically, it usually makes little sense in context since one may well need to read the entirety of the posts to understand what the post references. This is especially the case when a poster is responding only to a particular section of a previous post. Cheers, Eric From trnja001 at umn.edu Wed Jan 9 12:43:03 2008 From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 12:43:03 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] eBook reader w/ PDF support In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30801091031x183a8ba6t3782256f790574f0@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080107105234.A4708@belka.space.umn.edu> <121918.11264.qm@web33702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20080109112057.A23109@pchelka.space.umn.edu> <4785055A.80201@umn.edu> <579c6fd30801091031x183a8ba6t3782256f790574f0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <478515B7.1060600@umn.edu> Eric Peterson wrote: > On 1/9/08, Elvedin Trnjanin wrote: > >> But if everyone top posts, this isn't a problem. Rather than going from >> oldest to newest, why not in reverse? It makes more sense to me if >> you're following a topic as most do on a technical list. >> > > The link posted by Jim clearly states why it's a bad idea to top-post. > While it may (emphasis on MAY) make sense chronilogically, it usually > makes little sense in context since one may well need to read the > entirety of the posts to understand what the post references. This is > especially the case when a poster is responding only to a particular > section of a previous post. > > Cheers, > Eric > If we assume that the typical poster isn't clueless and know which parts of an original message to cut out or if they're addressing multiple points from an earlier message, they'll format their reply properly, then it would make more sense to top post. Why would you want to scroll all the way to the bottom to get the newest message? It also makes more sense when your (web)mail client has a message preview feature. But if that assumption fails, no amount of suggestions on formatting or style are going to help. From cschumann at twp-llc.com Wed Jan 9 12:47:12 2008 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 12:47:12 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] eBook reader w/ PDF support In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <26175.192.28.2.17.1199904432.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com> > From: Elvedin Trnjanin > But if everyone top posts, this isn't a problem. Rather than going from > oldest to newest, why not in reverse? It makes more sense to me if > you're following a topic as most do on a technical list. > > Jim Crumley wrote: >> On Mon, Jan 07, 2008 at 02:45:25PM -0800, Anna Edwards wrote: >> >> First off, top posting to technical email list is bad. Please >> stop. See for example: >> http://catb.org/~esr//jargon/html/T/top-post.html A technical list is often useful not just to read as it goes, but to search. If you join a topic mid-stream or look it up later, one single post with everything in chronological order is easier to understand. Also, many of us get the digests of lists, and newer content is already at the end, except when people top-post. Chris From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Mon Jan 7 21:11:26 2008 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 21:11:26 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] [OFFER] Computer Misc Message-ID: <914f813c0801071911u4eb0c192u49be89bedaf21525@mail.gmail.com> Unless noted, ALL of this worked last time I used any of it, which is awhile ago in some cases. You're picking up each lot. If you want more than one, be my guest! 1. Cell/Audio - includes Rio 500 MP3 Player (64M? ca. 1999ish), lots of various cables, cell phone headsets incl. a jabra bluetooth, chargers, includes one at&t older at&t phone, 3 personal/portable CD players. 2. Phone/Modem - includes two modems and various phone wires 3. Network & misc. - includes HP jetdirect print server, several network cards, an MS USB 802.11b adapter, an MS USB bluetooth adapter (might even still have the mouse around that went with it...), a 16 MB SD card, several PCMCIA NICs & dongles. 4. Video - includes 3 DVD players - 1 doesn't work (Portland) but could be repairable, the other 2 are temperamental and could just require cleaning (both of these are Sony). I have one remote for the Sonys and one for the Portland, plus a Sony universal remote. Also includes 2 Coax/RCA converters (these are around $20 at Radio Shack...) 5. PDA - one Sony PEG S360 PDA. It has a color screen, all cables and discs, and is in the box (not new, though...) 6. PC+ in a few boxes - Good project for someone wanting to learn to build a computer...includes everything but a hard drive. Full tower case, 1 (maybe 2) power supply(ies), a PII proc+mobo, 2-32MB PC100 RAM, 2-64 PC100 RAM, 1 (or 2) 128 MB PC100 RAM, 1 512 MB PC2700 RAM, 3 or 4 floppy drives, a USB/smart card reader, sound card, and video card (both decent). 7. Vintage Storage - Includes a box of floppies, 1 2GB JAZ drive, 1 1GB JAZ drive, 5 or 6 ZIP drives (100M models), 2 SCSI cards, and 20-30 JAZ and ZIP disks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080107/982348c4/attachment.htm From teeahr1 at gmail.com Wed Jan 9 13:43:30 2008 From: teeahr1 at gmail.com (p.daniels) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 13:43:30 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] [OFFER] Computer Misc In-Reply-To: <914f813c0801071911u4eb0c192u49be89bedaf21525@mail.gmail.com> References: <914f813c0801071911u4eb0c192u49be89bedaf21525@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200801091343.31083.TeeAhr1@gmail.com> I'm interested in 6 and 7. Where do you live? -pete On Monday January 07 2008 21:11:26 John T. Hoffoss wrote: > Unless noted, ALL of this worked last time I used any of it, which is > awhile ago in some cases. > > You're picking up each lot. If you want more than one, be my guest! > > 1. Cell/Audio > - includes Rio 500 MP3 Player (64M? ca. 1999ish), lots of various cables, > cell phone headsets incl. a jabra bluetooth, chargers, includes one at&t > older at&t phone, 3 personal/portable CD players. > > 2. Phone/Modem > - includes two modems and various phone wires > > 3. Network & misc. > - includes HP jetdirect print server, several network cards, an MS USB > 802.11b adapter, an MS USB bluetooth adapter (might even still have the > mouse around that went with it...), a 16 MB SD card, several PCMCIA NICs & > dongles. > > 4. Video > - includes 3 DVD players - 1 doesn't work (Portland) but could be > repairable, the other 2 are temperamental and could just require cleaning > (both of these are Sony). I have one remote for the Sonys and one for the > Portland, plus a Sony universal remote. Also includes 2 Coax/RCA converters > (these are around $20 at Radio Shack...) > > 5. PDA > - one Sony PEG S360 PDA. It has a color screen, all cables and discs, and > is in the box (not new, though...) > > 6. PC+ in a few boxes > - Good project for someone wanting to learn to build a computer...includes > everything but a hard drive. Full tower case, 1 (maybe 2) power > supply(ies), a PII proc+mobo, 2-32MB PC100 RAM, 2-64 PC100 RAM, 1 (or 2) > 128 MB PC100 RAM, 1 512 MB PC2700 RAM, 3 or 4 floppy drives, a USB/smart > card reader, sound card, and video card (both decent). > > 7. Vintage Storage > - Includes a box of floppies, 1 2GB JAZ drive, 1 1GB JAZ drive, 5 or 6 ZIP > drives (100M models), 2 SCSI cards, and 20-30 JAZ and ZIP disks. From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Wed Jan 9 13:47:26 2008 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 13:47:26 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] eBook reader w/ PDF support In-Reply-To: <478515B7.1060600@umn.edu> References: <20080107105234.A4708@belka.space.umn.edu> <121918.11264.qm@web33702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20080109112057.A23109@pchelka.space.umn.edu> <4785055A.80201@umn.edu> <579c6fd30801091031x183a8ba6t3782256f790574f0@mail.gmail.com> <478515B7.1060600@umn.edu> Message-ID: <20080109134726.A2733@pchelka.space.umn.edu> On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 12:43:03PM -0600, Elvedin Trnjanin wrote: > If we assume that the typical poster isn't clueless and know which parts > of an original message to cut out or if they're addressing multiple > points from an earlier message, they'll format their reply properly, > then it would make more sense to top post. Why would you want to scroll > all the way to the bottom to get the newest message? Scrolling down a message is fast and easy with my usual email client, and I can scan the old material to remind myself of the context as I scrolling. Scrolling all the way to bottom to get context, and then going back to the top to read the message is annoying, and goes against the usual convention of reading down the page. > It also makes more > sense when your (web)mail client has a message preview feature. Not to me. Especially with list messages, the context in the preview panel will remind me if I am even interested in reading the message or whether I just want to delete it immediately (as I am sure many people are going to do to this message). If you prefer to ignore the context in the preview panel or elsewhere, many clients can be setup to hide the context till you expand it. > But if that assumption fails, no amount of suggestions on formatting or > style are going to help. I would argue that bottom/inline posting fails more gracefully. If you bottom post it is natural to look back at the original post, and then notice that you should trim some of it. Top posting encourages people to leave the entire original thread untouched below what they are writing. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons | From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Jan 9 14:04:21 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 14:04:21 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] eBook reader w/ PDF support In-Reply-To: <20080109112057.A23109@pchelka.space.umn.edu> References: <20080107105234.A4708@belka.space.umn.edu> <121918.11264.qm@web33702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20080109112057.A23109@pchelka.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jan 2008, Jim Crumley wrote: > Adobe reader is bloated and slow. Adobe Professional has an online upgrade scheme that is a major nightmare. After installation it made me reboot four times to download and install 4 successive upgrade patches. It took a long time. Huge headache. I don't know what Reader is like, but I sure hope it isn't like that! Mike From florin at iucha.net Wed Jan 9 14:13:24 2008 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 14:13:24 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] eBook reader w/ PDF support In-Reply-To: <478515B7.1060600@umn.edu> References: <20080107105234.A4708@belka.space.umn.edu> <121918.11264.qm@web33702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20080109112057.A23109@pchelka.space.umn.edu> <4785055A.80201@umn.edu> <579c6fd30801091031x183a8ba6t3782256f790574f0@mail.gmail.com> <478515B7.1060600@umn.edu> Message-ID: <20080109201324.GF27161@iris.iucha.org> On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 12:43:03PM -0600, Elvedin Trnjanin wrote: > >> But if everyone top posts, this isn't a problem. Rather than going from > >> oldest to newest, why not in reverse? It makes more sense to me if > >> you're following a topic as most do on a technical list. > > > > The link posted by Jim clearly states why it's a bad idea to top-post. > > While it may (emphasis on MAY) make sense chronilogically, it usually > > makes little sense in context since one may well need to read the > > entirety of the posts to understand what the post references. This is > > especially the case when a poster is responding only to a particular > > section of a previous post. > > > If we assume that the typical poster isn't clueless and know which parts Bzzzzt. Wrong assumption. Most people click 'reply' and start typing at wherever position their mail program sets the cursor. Editing? Ha! > of an original message to cut out or if they're addressing multiple > points from an earlier message, they'll format their reply properly, > then it would make more sense to top post. Why would you want to scroll > all the way to the bottom to get the newest message? It also makes more > sense when your (web)mail client has a message preview feature. That is a quarter of a good point. But the mail client could be coded so that is displays the first 'non-quote' in the e-mail as opposed to the first five lines of text. Cheers, florin -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080109/73b20424/attachment.pgp From anna2edw at yahoo.com Wed Jan 9 15:41:20 2008 From: anna2edw at yahoo.com (Anna Edwards) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 13:41:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] eBook reader w/ PDF support In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <400681.64696.qm@web33703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> lmao reader had only one problem in windows (not in linux) that it takes bandwidth when you didnt want it used (especially because comcast purposely makes torrents slow yet take all the bandwidth, glad fcc taking care of that) but for linux it works perfectly fine (except very rarely a pdf made by open office will load slowly) so it works for me Mike Miller wrote: > On Wed, 9 Jan 2008, Jim Crumley wrote: >> Adobe reader is bloated and slow. > Adobe Professional has an online upgrade scheme that is a major nightmare. > After installation it made me reboot four times to download and install 4 > successive upgrade patches. It took a long time. Huge headache. I don't > know what Reader is like, but I sure hope it isn't like that! > Mike > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping From wdtj at yahoo.com Wed Jan 9 16:29:19 2008 From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 14:29:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree Message-ID: <764011.35466.qm@web53801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Anyone know of a quick and easy way to find the date of the newest file in a directory tree. I'm looking for a way to speed up synchronizing file caches between machines. When you have 1m in files (that's a count, not a size), it takes quite a while to scan through the whole tree. If we had a .oldest file in each branch, we could skip that branch if nothing had changed. Then all we would need to do is scan the tree once to set these branch-stamps. After that, all the cache machines would have to do is walk the tree looking for newer stamps. --- Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those 3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, (612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080109/5163544b/attachment.htm From andyzib at gmail.com Wed Jan 9 16:33:48 2008 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 16:33:48 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] [OFFER] Computer Misc In-Reply-To: <914f813c0801071911u4eb0c192u49be89bedaf21525@mail.gmail.com> References: <914f813c0801071911u4eb0c192u49be89bedaf21525@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > 7. Vintage Storage > - Includes a box of floppies, 1 2GB JAZ drive, 1 1GB JAZ drive, 5 or 6 ZIP > drives (100M models), 2 SCSI cards, and 20-30 JAZ and ZIP disks. Sounds like a good lot if you've never heard the Iomega click of death. :) -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com From sulrich at botwerks.org Wed Jan 9 16:49:38 2008 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 16:49:38 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree In-Reply-To: <764011.35466.qm@web53801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <764011.35466.qm@web53801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: at a high level, if there's been a modification to a file in a directory the mtime of the directory should reflect the modification. this does not propagate to parents, it's simply a reflection of the metadata for the container directory. as such you should be able to check the mtime of only directories within a hierarchy. this would eliminate the need to check the mtime of all of the files within a directory. rsync doen't cut it? On Jan 9, 2008 4:29 PM, Wayne Johnson wrote: > > Anyone know of a quick and easy way to find the date of the newest file in a > directory tree. > > I'm looking for a way to speed up synchronizing file caches between > machines. When you have 1m in files (that's a count, not a size), it takes > quite a while to scan through the whole tree. If we had a .oldest file in > each branch, we could skip that branch if nothing had changed. Then all we > would need to do is scan the tree once to set these branch-stamps. After > that, all the cache machines would have to do is walk the tree looking for > newer stamps. -- steve ulrich (sulrich at botwerks.*) From dave at sherohman.org Wed Jan 9 16:57:04 2008 From: dave at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 16:57:04 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree In-Reply-To: <764011.35466.qm@web53801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <764011.35466.qm@web53801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20080109225704.GE3477@sherohman.org> On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 02:29:19PM -0800, Wayne Johnson wrote: > Anyone know of a quick and easy way to find the date of the newest > file in a directory tree. Not entirely "quick" when dealing with a million files, but find /some/dir/ -exec ls -l {} \; | awk '{print $6,$7,$8}' | sort -r | head -1 will give you the newest file in /some/dir/ (or its subdirectories) along with its modification date and time, assuming your ls lists the date/time in an ascii-sortable format (which mine does: 2008-01-09 00:28). > I'm looking for a way to speed up synchronizing file caches between > machines. When you have 1m in files (that's a count, not a size), it > takes quite a while to scan through the whole tree. If we had a > .oldest file in each branch, we could skip that branch if nothing had > changed. Then all we would need to do is scan the tree once to set > these branch-stamps. After that, all the cache machines would have to > do is walk the tree looking for newer stamps. Have you tried rsync? In broad terms, this is the kind of thing it's designed to handle, but I'm not sure whether it's able to detect unmodified directories and skip them or not. -- I reckon we are now the only monastry ever that had a dungeon stuffed with sixteen thousand zombies. - perlmonks.org From florin at iucha.net Wed Jan 9 17:20:14 2008 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 17:20:14 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree In-Reply-To: <20080109225704.GE3477@sherohman.org> References: <764011.35466.qm@web53801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20080109225704.GE3477@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20080109232014.GH27161@iris.iucha.org> On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 04:57:04PM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: > Not entirely "quick" when dealing with a million files, but > > find /some/dir/ -exec ls -l {} \; | awk '{print $6,$7,$8}' | sort -r | head -1 Ewwwww... ETOOMANYLS find /some/dir -type f -printf "%h/%f %A@\n" | sort -rn -k2 | head -1 With a bit of awk magic you can even take the sorting out of the picture. florin -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080109/2d6b21ee/attachment.pgp From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Wed Jan 9 17:18:46 2008 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 23:18:46 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] [OFFER] Computer Misc In-Reply-To: <854f92730801091507x526d4986w800d17f7ab406d42@mail.gmail.com> References: <914f813c0801071911u4eb0c192u49be89bedaf21525@mail.gmail.com> <854f92730801091507x526d4986w800d17f7ab406d42@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1088969479-1199920751-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1653984899-@bxe124.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Sorry, but all of my junk went almost immediately. I had actually cross-posted to freecycle, thinkin I'd be lucky to get anyone to take this stuff. So message for all of you: don't worry about recycling fees or cleaning or whatever; chances are someone will eagerly take all your junk. Next time I'll post to TCLUG alone first. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: icm Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 17:07:07 To:"John T. Hoffoss" Subject: Re: [tclug-list] [OFFER] Computer Misc Is the network lot still available? where are you located? On Jan 7, 2008 9:11 PM, John T. Hoffoss > wrote: Unless noted, ALL of this worked last time I used any of it, which is awhile ago in some cases. You're picking up each lot. If you want more than one, be my guest! 1. Cell/Audio - includes Rio 500 MP3 Player (64M? ca. 1999ish), lots of various cables, cell phone headsets incl. a jabra bluetooth, chargers, includes one at&t older at&t phone, 3 personal/portable CD players. 2. Phone/Modem - includes two modems and various phone wires 3. Network & misc. - includes HP jetdirect print server, several network cards, an MS USB 802.11b adapter, an MS USB bluetooth adapter (might even still have the mouse around that went with it...), a 16 MB SD card, several PCMCIA NICs & dongles. 4. Video - includes 3 DVD players - 1 doesn't work (Portland) but could be repairable, the other 2 are temperamental and could just require cleaning (both of these are Sony). I have one remote for the Sonys and one for the Portland, plus a Sony universal remote. Also includes 2 Coax/RCA converters (these are around $20 at Radio Shack...) 5. PDA - one Sony PEG S360 PDA. It has a color screen, all cables and discs, and is in the box (not new, though...) 6. PC+ in a few boxes - Good project for someone wanting to learn to build a computer...includes everything but a hard drive. Full tower case, 1 (maybe 2) power supply(ies), a PII proc+mobo, 2-32MB PC100 RAM, 2-64 PC100 RAM, 1 (or 2) 128 MB PC100 RAM, 1 512 MB PC2700 RAM, 3 or 4 floppy drives, a USB/smart card reader, sound card, and video card (both decent). 7. Vintage Storage - Includes a box of floppies, 1 2GB JAZ drive, 1 1GB JAZ drive, 5 or 6 ZIP drives (100M models), 2 SCSI cards, and 20-30 JAZ and ZIP disks. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dave at sherohman.org Wed Jan 9 17:30:21 2008 From: dave at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 17:30:21 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree In-Reply-To: <20080109232014.GH27161@iris.iucha.org> References: <764011.35466.qm@web53801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20080109225704.GE3477@sherohman.org> <20080109232014.GH27161@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20080109233021.GF3477@sherohman.org> On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 05:20:14PM -0600, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 04:57:04PM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: > > Not entirely "quick" when dealing with a million files, but > > > > find /some/dir/ -exec ls -l {} \; | awk '{print $6,$7,$8}' | sort -r | head -1 > > Ewwwww... ETOOMANYLS > > find /some/dir -type f -printf "%h/%f %A@\n" | sort -rn -k2 | head -1 *bows* Yours is the superior find-fu. I wasn't even aware it had a -printf option. But wouldn't you want %T@ (mtime) rather than %A@ (atime), since we're looking for the most recently modified file? -- I reckon we are now the only monastry ever that had a dungeon stuffed with sixteen thousand zombies. - perlmonks.org From florin at iucha.net Wed Jan 9 17:41:20 2008 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 17:41:20 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree In-Reply-To: <20080109233021.GF3477@sherohman.org> References: <764011.35466.qm@web53801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20080109225704.GE3477@sherohman.org> <20080109232014.GH27161@iris.iucha.org> <20080109233021.GF3477@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20080109234120.GI27161@iris.iucha.org> On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 05:30:21PM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: > On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 05:20:14PM -0600, Florin Iucha wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 04:57:04PM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: > > > Not entirely "quick" when dealing with a million files, but > > > > > > find /some/dir/ -exec ls -l {} \; | awk '{print $6,$7,$8}' | sort -r | head -1 > > > > Ewwwww... ETOOMANYLS > > > > find /some/dir -type f -printf "%h/%f %A@\n" | sort -rn -k2 | head -1 > > *bows* Yours is the superior find-fu. I wasn't even aware it had a > -printf option. > > But wouldn't you want %T@ (mtime) rather than %A@ (atime), since we're > looking for the most recently modified file? Yup, you are right. And the Oscar goes to: find /some/dir -type f -printf "%h/%f %T@\n" | awk '{ if ($2 > the_max) { the_max = $2; file_name = $1; } } END { print file_name }' I would like to thank Google for its search engine and to the find man page for its thorough description of the million options and switches... florin -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080109/cbf68997/attachment.pgp From auditodd at comcast.net Wed Jan 9 20:03:57 2008 From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 02:03:57 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] eBook reader w/ PDF support Message-ID: <011020080203.15969.47857D0D0006E65000003E6122070210530B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net> Top post? Bottom post? Who gives a flying fart!? I'm intelligent enough to figure out the chronological order of a series of emails. Just because some web site somewhere shows 1 reason why bottom posting is "supposedly" better does NOT make it LAW. Quite frankly I could care less how someone posts as long as they trim out the excess text that has nothing to do with their reply. I also find it interesting that Microsoft is NOT the only software company whose email client top posts by default, so you can't blame it on Microsoft. Just my $0.02. -- ========== Todd Young -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Jim Crumley > On Mon, Jan 07, 2008 at 02:45:25PM -0800, Anna Edwards wrote: > > First off, top posting to technical email list is bad. Please > stop. See for example: > http://catb.org/~esr//jargon/html/T/top-post.html > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dniesen at gmail.com Wed Jan 9 20:23:04 2008 From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 20:23:04 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] eBook reader w/ PDF support In-Reply-To: <011020080203.15969.47857D0D0006E65000003E6122070210530B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net> References: <011020080203.15969.47857D0D0006E65000003E6122070210530B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net> Message-ID: <47f4d5e70801091823p35dd9730qff6a7b49410d11a8@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 9, 2008 8:03 PM, wrote: > Top post? > Bottom post? > Who gives a flying fart!? > > I'm intelligent enough to figure out the chronological order of a series of emails. > > Just because some web site somewhere shows 1 reason why bottom posting is "supposedly" better does NOT make it LAW. > I'm going to middle post. Screw anybody's convention. > Quite frankly I could care less how someone posts as long as they trim out the excess text that has nothing to do with their reply. > > I also find it interesting that Microsoft is NOT the only software company whose email client top posts by default, so you can't blame it on Microsoft. > > Just my $0.02. > > -- > ========== > Todd Young > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: Jim Crumley > > On Mon, Jan 07, 2008 at 02:45:25PM -0800, Anna Edwards wrote: > > > > First off, top posting to technical email list is bad. Please > > stop. See for example: > > http://catb.org/~esr//jargon/html/T/top-post.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Donovan Niesen From trnja001 at umn.edu Wed Jan 9 20:33:35 2008 From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 20:33:35 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] eBook reader w/ PDF support In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70801091823p35dd9730qff6a7b49410d11a8@mail.gmail.com> References: <011020080203.15969.47857D0D0006E65000003E6122070210530B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net> <47f4d5e70801091823p35dd9730qff6a7b49410d11a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <478583FF.2030006@umn.edu> Donovan wrote: > On Jan 9, 2008 8:03 PM, wrote: > >> Top post? >> Bottom post? >> Who gives a flying fart!? >> >> I'm intelligent enough to figure out the chronological order of a series of emails. >> >> Just because some web site somewhere shows 1 reason why bottom posting is "supposedly" better does NOT make it LAW. >> >> > > > I'm going to middle post. Aren't you the rebel > Screw anybody's convention. > > > > >> Quite frankly I could care less how someone posts as long as they trim out the excess text that has nothing to do with their reply. >> >> I also find it interesting that Microsoft is NOT the only software company whose email client top posts by default, so you can't blame it on Microsoft. >> >> Just my $0.02. >> >> -- >> ========== >> Todd Young >> >> -------------- Original message ---------------------- >> From: Jim Crumley >> >>> On Mon, Jan 07, 2008 at 02:45:25PM -0800, Anna Edwards wrote: >>> >>> First off, top posting to technical email list is bad. Please >>> stop. See for example: >>> http://catb.org/~esr//jargon/html/T/top-post.html >>> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > > > From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com Wed Jan 9 20:39:41 2008 From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (Kelly Black) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 20:39:41 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] eBook reader w/ PDF support In-Reply-To: <478583FF.2030006@umn.edu> References: <011020080203.15969.47857D0D0006E65000003E6122070210530B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net> <47f4d5e70801091823p35dd9730qff6a7b49410d11a8@mail.gmail.com> <478583FF.2030006@umn.edu> Message-ID: <20080110023941.GA4907@mail.hsd1.mn.comcast.net> > Donovan wrote: > I'm going to middle post. I prefer vi. kb0gbj From wdtj at yahoo.com Wed Jan 9 21:19:03 2008 From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 19:19:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree Message-ID: <559269.58653.qm@web53803.mail.re2.yahoo.com> rsync is nice, but when your talking 1 million files over 12 users, your talking serious disk io. 45 minutes per user just to scan through the list. If I can determine if anything needs to be done at all first, before even running rsync, that's a lot of savings. --- Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those 3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, (612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis ----- Original Message ---- From: Dave Sherohman To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2008 4:57:04 PM Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 02:29:19PM -0800, Wayne Johnson wrote: > Anyone know of a quick and easy way to find the date of the newest > file in a directory tree. Not entirely "quick" when dealing with a million files, but find /some/dir/ -exec ls -l {} \; | awk '{print $6,$7,$8}' | sort -r | head -1 will give you the newest file in /some/dir/ (or its subdirectories) along with its modification date and time, assuming your ls lists the date/time in an ascii-sortable format (which mine does: 2008-01-09 00:28). > I'm looking for a way to speed up synchronizing file caches between > machines. When you have 1m in files (that's a count, not a size), it > takes quite a while to scan through the whole tree. If we had a > .oldest file in each branch, we could skip that branch if nothing had > changed. Then all we would need to do is scan the tree once to set > these branch-stamps. After that, all the cache machines would have to > do is walk the tree looking for newer stamps. Have you tried rsync? In broad terms, this is the kind of thing it's designed to handle, but I'm not sure whether it's able to detect unmodified directories and skip them or not. -- I reckon we are now the only monastry ever that had a dungeon stuffed with sixteen thousand zombies. - perlmonks.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080109/1f5410a7/attachment.htm From wdtj at yahoo.com Wed Jan 9 21:21:06 2008 From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 19:21:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree Message-ID: <670332.22933.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> -printf is a Linux exclusive. Well I guess this is TCLUG. --- Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those 3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, (612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis ----- Original Message ---- From: Dave Sherohman To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2008 5:30:21 PM Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 05:20:14PM -0600, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 04:57:04PM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: > > Not entirely "quick" when dealing with a million files, but > > > > find /some/dir/ -exec ls -l {} \; | awk '{print $6,$7,$8}' | sort -r | head -1 > > Ewwwww... ETOOMANYLS > > find /some/dir -type f -printf "%h/%f %A@\n" | sort -rn -k2 | head -1 *bows* Yours is the superior find-fu. I wasn't even aware it had a -printf option. But wouldn't you want %T@ (mtime) rather than %A@ (atime), since we're looking for the most recently modified file? -- I reckon we are now the only monastry ever that had a dungeon stuffed with sixteen thousand zombies. - perlmonks.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080109/8de764e2/attachment.htm From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Jan 9 22:22:32 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 22:22:32 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree In-Reply-To: <670332.22933.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <670332.22933.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jan 2008, Wayne Johnson wrote: > -printf is a Linux exclusive. Well I guess this is TCLUG. You mean GNU, not Linux. (GNU's not Linux? ;-) I have "find" with -printf on Solaris because I installed the GNU coreutils on Solaris. Mike From leif.t.johnson at gmail.com Wed Jan 9 22:27:20 2008 From: leif.t.johnson at gmail.com (Leif Johnson) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 22:27:20 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree In-Reply-To: <670332.22933.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <670332.22933.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > Anyone know of a quick and easy way to find the date of the newest file in a directory tree. What kind of systems do you want to be doing this on? If it's linux with a kernel version of >= 2.6.13 you might (if it was enabled in the kernel) have inotify available. For a complete description see google, but simply inotify allows a program to watch the file system for events. So you could make a simple process to watch your tree for appropriate events (file modifies etc.) and keep track of what is most recent. leif From florin at iucha.net Wed Jan 9 23:23:36 2008 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 23:23:36 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree In-Reply-To: References: <670332.22933.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20080110052336.GL27161@iris.iucha.org> On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 10:27:20PM -0600, Leif Johnson wrote: > > Anyone know of a quick and easy way to find the date of the newest file in a directory tree. > What kind of systems do you want to be doing this on? > > If it's linux with a kernel version of >= 2.6.13 you might (if it was > enabled in the kernel) have inotify available. For a complete > description see google, but simply inotify allows a program to watch > the file system for events. So you could make a simple process to > watch your tree for appropriate events (file modifies etc.) and keep > track of what is most recent. Well, the process might be simple, but if the directory tree is bushy then you talk about lots of CPU and memory usage to keep track of all changes until you need them. florin -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080109/1c848464/attachment-0001.pgp From florin at iucha.net Wed Jan 9 23:24:57 2008 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 23:24:57 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree In-Reply-To: <670332.22933.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <670332.22933.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20080110052456.GM27161@iris.iucha.org> On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 07:21:06PM -0800, Wayne Johnson wrote: > -printf is a Linux exclusive. Well I guess this is TCLUG. No, it is a TC exclusive ;) It runs on all the UNICES that I have access to, in the twin cities area 8^). florin -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080109/c18dfeb9/attachment.pgp From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Jan 9 23:40:37 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 23:40:37 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree In-Reply-To: <20080109234120.GI27161@iris.iucha.org> References: <764011.35466.qm@web53801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20080109225704.GE3477@sherohman.org> <20080109232014.GH27161@iris.iucha.org> <20080109233021.GF3477@sherohman.org> <20080109234120.GI27161@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jan 2008, Florin Iucha wrote: > And the Oscar goes to: > > find /some/dir -type f -printf "%h/%f %T@\n" | awk '{ if ($2 > the_max) { the_max = $2; file_name = $1; } } > END { print file_name }' > > I would like to thank Google for its search engine and to the find man > page for its thorough description of the million options and switches... This is the stuff I like most on LUG lists -- learning all the cool tricks with GNU/UNIX/Linux commands. So much can be done but it takes years to learn all the efficient ways of doing things. I've used awk/gawk a gazillion times but only in a few ways, so using it to find a maximum was not in my repertoire, but that is an excellent idea. I always would have sorted the file even though I knew that couldn't be the best way to go. That said, there are still some problems with the one-liner above. First and foremost, if any file in the tree contains a space in the filename, the command will fail. At first I was going to say that the problem is in the printf argument because it doesn't uses a space as delimiter between the file name and date stamp: $ find . -type f -printf "%h/%f %T@\n" ./Lee, Alvin - I'm Going Home.txt 1182200822 ./0_TABLATURE_EXPLANATION.txt 1118104853 ./Semisonic - FNT.txt 1153491460 ./Animals - House of the Rising Sun.tab.txt 1142214281 [snip] But maybe it is better to say that the problem is with the awk command. If we replace $2 with $NF and replace $1 with $0, we get this: find /some/dir -type f -printf "%h/%f %T@\n" | awk '{ if ($NF > the_max) { the_max = $NF; file_name = $0; } } END { print file_name }' But the problem with that is that it retains the date stamp at the end like so: ./Lee, Alvin - I'm Going Home.txt 1182200822 But that can be removed by adding a little perl (or sed) regexp thingy at the end: find /some/dir -type f -printf "%h/%f %T@\n" | awk '{ if ($NF > the_max) { the_max = $NF; file_name = $0; } } END { print file_name }' | perl -pe 's/^(.+) [0-9]+$/$1/' That will run almost exactly as fast as the earlier suggestion because the perl bit at the end is very fast and it is only done on the single line of output at the end. On the other hand, you didn't say that you wanted the filename, you said that you wanted the date. That simplifies things a bit! You can do this: find /some/dir -type f -printf "%T@\n" | awk '{ if ($1 > the_max) { the_max = $1; } } END { print the_max }' That returns the modification date of the newest file in seconds since 1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC. If you want a different date format, we can discuss that. There must be a good trick. You can get the current time in that format using the date command as follows: date +%s There are other forms of weirdness with UNIX filenames, like they can include a newline, and that will also mess you up, but maybe that never happens on your system (and if you and your users and your software are all sane, it won't happen!). Do you want to find the newest file as of the moment your script starts running, or will you want to detect new files that are created after the script starts running but before it finishes? Maybe this isn't an important consideration for you, but you should be aware that what you mean by the "newest file" isn't defined precisely by the method you are using to identify it. Best, Mike From florin at iucha.net Thu Jan 10 07:00:34 2008 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 07:00:34 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree In-Reply-To: References: <764011.35466.qm@web53801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20080109225704.GE3477@sherohman.org> <20080109232014.GH27161@iris.iucha.org> <20080109233021.GF3477@sherohman.org> <20080109234120.GI27161@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20080110130034.GN27161@iris.iucha.org> On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 11:40:37PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote: > On Wed, 9 Jan 2008, Florin Iucha wrote: > > > And the Oscar goes to: > > > > find /some/dir -type f -printf "%h/%f %T@\n" | awk '{ if ($2 > the_max) { the_max = $2; file_name = $1; } } > > END { print file_name }' > > > > I would like to thank Google for its search engine and to the find man > > page for its thorough description of the million options and switches... > > > This is the stuff I like most on LUG lists -- learning all the cool tricks > with GNU/UNIX/Linux commands. So much can be done but it takes years to > learn all the efficient ways of doing things. I've used awk/gawk a > gazillion times but only in a few ways, so using it to find a maximum was > not in my repertoire, but that is an excellent idea. I always would have > sorted the file even though I knew that couldn't be the best way to go. > > That said, there are still some problems with the one-liner above. First > and foremost, if any file in the tree contains a space in the filename, > the command will fail. At first I was going to say that the problem is in > the printf argument because it doesn't uses a space as delimiter between > the file name and date stamp: > > $ find . -type f -printf "%h/%f %T@\n" > ./Lee, Alvin - I'm Going Home.txt 1182200822 > ./0_TABLATURE_EXPLANATION.txt 1118104853 > ./Semisonic - FNT.txt 1153491460 > ./Animals - House of the Rising Sun.tab.txt 1142214281 > [snip] > > But maybe it is better to say that the problem is with the awk command. > If we replace $2 with $NF and replace $1 with $0, we get this: We can switch the arguments around and use a less likely separator (warning, untested): find /some/dir -type f -printf "%T@^%h/%f\n" | awk -F^ '{ if ($1 > the_max) { the_max = $1; file_name = $2; } } END { print file_name }' Cheers, florin -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080110/49fd1bca/attachment.pgp From wdtj at yahoo.com Thu Jan 10 09:05:40 2008 From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 07:05:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree Message-ID: <213059.71285.qm@web53801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ---- From: Florin Iucha To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2008 11:23:36 PM Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree >Well, the process might be simple, but if the directory tree is bushy >then you talk about lots of CPU and memory usage to keep track of all >changes until you need them. Or you use the program to push the changes when they occur. In this case, the master directory is a compilation of all the source of all the third party software we use, will use, or have used. ApacheDS, Xerces, Jetty... When you factor in multiple releases of the software and multiple platforms (19) it's huge. It only changes infrequently, but all of our developers need to update their local copies to keep in sync. Far too many times a developer has changed our product source with something that requires a new package, but not everyone had updated their caches so that person gets excited because compiles start failing, only to realize that they didn't read the "slurp" warning (as we call them) to update their cache. Some of the developers are on other continents, so having them access the master directly when they build is out of the question. Thanks all for the suggestions, this has helped a lot. --- Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those 3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, (612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080110/e6fceeae/attachment.htm From leif.t.johnson at gmail.com Thu Jan 10 09:16:11 2008 From: leif.t.johnson at gmail.com (Leif Johnson) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 09:16:11 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree In-Reply-To: <20080110052336.GL27161@iris.iucha.org> References: <670332.22933.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20080110052336.GL27161@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Jan 9, 2008 11:23 PM, Florin Iucha wrote: > Well, the process might be simple, but if the directory tree is bushy > then you talk about lots of CPU and memory usage to keep track of all > changes until you need them. Granted, I haven't used inotify in such a situtation, but it probably won't use much CPU. That would be driven mostly by how you choose store/retrieve the latest information. We could be talking about a bunch of memory though. So this would probably be exchanging speed and disk io for memory. This all depends on the parameters that we (us being not Wayne) don't know about the situation. leif From wdtj at yahoo.com Thu Jan 10 09:15:26 2008 From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 07:15:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree Message-ID: <452760.152.qm@web53804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Actually, I just wanted to find the time, not the file, so by removing the file name, life gets really simple. I agree, there are just so many tricks out there. Yes, Google is a good place to start, but at times I've spent hours researching, given up, then asked this list and get an answer in minutes. The amount of Linux experience we have online in TCLUG is huge and just having someone to help reduce the subject area helps. Besides, we all learn a little with these inquiries. I consider myself a pretty experienced programmer and admin, but sometimes even I don't know the answer, or like to hear how others have solved the problem. There is always some new trick, that's what makes Linux/UNIX so fun. Thanks all. --- Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those 3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, (612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis ----- Original Message ---- From: Mike Miller To: TCLUG List Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2008 11:40:37 PM Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree On Wed, 9 Jan 2008, Florin Iucha wrote: > And the Oscar goes to: > > find /some/dir -type f -printf "%h/%f %T@\n" | awk '{ if ($2 > the_max) { the_max = $2; file_name = $1; } } > END { print file_name }' > > I would like to thank Google for its search engine and to the find man > page for its thorough description of the million options and switches... This is the stuff I like most on LUG lists -- learning all the cool tricks with GNU/UNIX/Linux commands. So much can be done but it takes years to learn all the efficient ways of doing things. I've used awk/gawk a gazillion times but only in a few ways, so using it to find a maximum was not in my repertoire, but that is an excellent idea. I always would have sorted the file even though I knew that couldn't be the best way to go. That said, there are still some problems with the one-liner above. First and foremost, if any file in the tree contains a space in the filename, the command will fail. At first I was going to say that the problem is in the printf argument because it doesn't uses a space as delimiter between the file name and date stamp: $ find . -type f -printf "%h/%f %T@\n" ./Lee, Alvin - I'm Going Home.txt 1182200822 ./0_TABLATURE_EXPLANATION.txt 1118104853 ./Semisonic - FNT.txt 1153491460 ./Animals - House of the Rising Sun.tab.txt 1142214281 [snip] But maybe it is better to say that the problem is with the awk command. If we replace $2 with $NF and replace $1 with $0, we get this: find /some/dir -type f -printf "%h/%f %T@\n" | awk '{ if ($NF > the_max) { the_max = $NF; file_name = $0; } } END { print file_name }' But the problem with that is that it retains the date stamp at the end like so: ./Lee, Alvin - I'm Going Home.txt 1182200822 But that can be removed by adding a little perl (or sed) regexp thingy at the end: find /some/dir -type f -printf "%h/%f %T@\n" | awk '{ if ($NF > the_max) { the_max = $NF; file_name = $0; } } END { print file_name }' | perl -pe 's/^(.+) [0-9]+$/$1/' That will run almost exactly as fast as the earlier suggestion because the perl bit at the end is very fast and it is only done on the single line of output at the end. On the other hand, you didn't say that you wanted the filename, you said that you wanted the date. That simplifies things a bit! You can do this: find /some/dir -type f -printf "%T@\n" | awk '{ if ($1 > the_max) { the_max = $1; } } END { print the_max }' That returns the modification date of the newest file in seconds since 1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC. If you want a different date format, we can discuss that. There must be a good trick. You can get the current time in that format using the date command as follows: date +%s There are other forms of weirdness with UNIX filenames, like they can include a newline, and that will also mess you up, but maybe that never happens on your system (and if you and your users and your software are all sane, it won't happen!). Do you want to find the newest file as of the moment your script starts running, or will you want to detect new files that are created after the script starts running but before it finishes? Maybe this isn't an important consideration for you, but you should be aware that what you mean by the "newest file" isn't defined precisely by the method you are using to identify it. Best, Mike _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080110/79e02a99/attachment-0001.htm From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Thu Jan 10 09:51:48 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 09:51:48 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree In-Reply-To: <20080110130034.GN27161@iris.iucha.org> References: <764011.35466.qm@web53801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20080109225704.GE3477@sherohman.org> <20080109232014.GH27161@iris.iucha.org> <20080109233021.GF3477@sherohman.org> <20080109234120.GI27161@iris.iucha.org> <20080110130034.GN27161@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2008, Florin Iucha wrote: > We can switch the arguments around and use a less likely separator > (warning, untested): > > find /some/dir -type f -printf "%T@^%h/%f\n" | awk -F^ '{ if ($1 > the_max) { the_max = $1; file_name = $2; } } > END { print file_name }' That will fail only if the newest file has a caret (^) in the filename, but you can deal with that by printing the full line and using "cut" to parse it: find /some/dir -type f -printf "%T@^%h/%f\n" | awk -F^ '{ if ($1 > the_max) { the_max = $1; file_name = $0; } } END { print file_name }' | cut -d^ -f 2- That seems to work. It gives the filename as output instead of the date. This makes me want to write a little script for finding the newest file with "some/dir" given as input on the command line. I do need this kind of thing sometimes. I think I would do it by having a fast and slow form where the fast version used awk and only printed the newest file, but the slow version used sort and printed the n newest files along with the number of days, minutes and seconds since they were modified. When I'm doing this in a single directory, I just do this: ls -lAFtc | head -n where the "n" is replaced by the number of newest files I want to see. The "t" argument to ls forces it to sort by date and the "c" argument makes it use the real modification time instead of the date stamp (which can be changed by "touch"). If someone breaks into your machine and modifies files they'll often change date stamps to make it seem like the files were not modified recently, so "ls -lc" will reveal this. Mike From icm269 at gmail.com Thu Jan 10 11:52:40 2008 From: icm269 at gmail.com (icm) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 11:52:40 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Listserv Software Message-ID: <854f92730801100952r229855dbq2e03189199b26693@mail.gmail.com> I have the task of setting up about a dozen different listservs for my company and I'm looking for a open-source solution that is easy to use and easy to implement and can expand if need be. Our current setup is primarily a windows environment with Exchange as our main mail processor. We do have a few linux boxes(Ubuntu, Suse) running that I could tap if need be. Can any of you offer any suggestions on some listserv software? I've heard of Mailman any others? I do have LSoft running for another application but the licensing is rather expensive. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080110/10d2e4aa/attachment.htm From bbaptist at iexposure.com Thu Jan 10 12:06:54 2008 From: bbaptist at iexposure.com (Bret Baptist) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:06:54 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Listserv Software In-Reply-To: <854f92730801100952r229855dbq2e03189199b26693@mail.gmail.com> References: <854f92730801100952r229855dbq2e03189199b26693@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200801101206.54994.bbaptist@iexposure.com> On Thursday 10 January 2008 11:52:40 am icm wrote: > I have the task of setting up about a dozen different listservs for my > company and I'm looking for a open-source solution that is easy to use and > easy to implement and can expand if need be. Our current setup is primarily > a windows environment with Exchange as our main mail processor. We do have > a few linux boxes(Ubuntu, Suse) running that I could tap if need be. Can > any of you offer any suggestions on some listserv software? I've heard of > Mailman any others? I do have LSoft running for another application but the > licensing is rather expensive. I am rather fond of sympa. http://www.sympa.org/ -- Bret Baptist Senior Network Administrator bbaptist at iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com (612)676-1946 x17 Providing Internet Services since 1995 Web Development ~ Search Engine Marketing ~ Web Analytics Network Security ~ On Demand Tech Support ~ E-Mail Marketing ------------------------------------------ From johntrammell at gmail.com Thu Jan 10 12:46:49 2008 From: johntrammell at gmail.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:46:49 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree In-Reply-To: References: <764011.35466.qm@web53801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20080109225704.GE3477@sherohman.org> <20080109232014.GH27161@iris.iucha.org> <20080109233021.GF3477@sherohman.org> <20080109234120.GI27161@iris.iucha.org> <20080110130034.GN27161@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: <68dbb6fe0801101046m7ca7af67lf2ef4393633f11e8@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 10, 2008 9:51 AM, Mike Miller wrote: [snip] OK, I just had to see how awful this would be in Perl. Not too awful: % perl -MFile::Find::Rule -MList::Util=min -le 'print min map -M, find->in(".")' 0.00752314814814815 This is the number of days that have passed since the most recent file modification. Other variations can be had by changing out "-M" (see perldoc -f -X) and min/max. File::Find::Rule also permits conditional chaining. One problem with this is that File::Find::Rule isn't generally part of the Perl core. Here's a variant that prints the date of the most recent file: % perl -MFile::Find::Rule -MList::Util=max -le 'print scalar localtime(max map { (stat($_))[9] } find->in("."))' Thu Jan 10 12:18:42 2008 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080110/2a4cc50b/attachment.htm From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Thu Jan 10 14:16:15 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:16:15 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree In-Reply-To: <68dbb6fe0801101046m7ca7af67lf2ef4393633f11e8@mail.gmail.com> References: <764011.35466.qm@web53801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20080109225704.GE3477@sherohman.org> <20080109232014.GH27161@iris.iucha.org> <20080109233021.GF3477@sherohman.org> <20080109234120.GI27161@iris.iucha.org> <20080110130034.GN27161@iris.iucha.org> <68dbb6fe0801101046m7ca7af67lf2ef4393633f11e8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2008, John J. Trammell wrote: > On Jan 10, 2008 9:51 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > [snip] Is there a reason for pointing out that I wrote something and then removing *all* of it? ;-) > OK, I just had to see how awful this would be in Perl. Not too awful: > > % perl -MFile::Find::Rule -MList::Util=min -le 'print min map -M, > find->in(".")' > 0.00752314814814815 > > This is the number of days that have passed since the most recent file > modification. Other variations can be had by changing out "-M" (see perldoc > -f -X) and min/max. File::Find::Rule also permits conditional chaining. > One problem with this is that File::Find::Rule isn't generally part of the > Perl core. > > Here's a variant that prints the date of the most recent file: > > % perl -MFile::Find::Rule -MList::Util=max -le 'print scalar localtime(max > map { (stat($_))[9] } find->in("."))' > Thu Jan 10 12:18:42 2008 Nice. I wonder how the various methods compare in speed. With a lot of files they must all be pretty slow, so speed is important. Mike From chewie at wookimus.net Thu Jan 10 15:08:44 2008 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:08:44 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Listserv Software In-Reply-To: <200801101206.54994.bbaptist@iexposure.com> References: <854f92730801100952r229855dbq2e03189199b26693@mail.gmail.com> <200801101206.54994.bbaptist@iexposure.com> Message-ID: <26145.1199999324@skuld.wookimus.net> Mailman is hard to beat. Never tried Sympa. I've used Ecartis and like it, but when it comes to a polished mail list and archive server with a very useable web GUI, Mailman is king (IMNSHO). Chad From johntrammell at gmail.com Thu Jan 10 15:45:46 2008 From: johntrammell at gmail.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:45:46 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree In-Reply-To: References: <764011.35466.qm@web53801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20080109225704.GE3477@sherohman.org> <20080109232014.GH27161@iris.iucha.org> <20080109233021.GF3477@sherohman.org> <20080109234120.GI27161@iris.iucha.org> <20080110130034.GN27161@iris.iucha.org> <68dbb6fe0801101046m7ca7af67lf2ef4393633f11e8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <68dbb6fe0801101345q3d365f9er75fda990a1cd9704@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 10, 2008 2:16 PM, Mike Miller wrote: [snip, with slightly less zeal :^) ] > I wonder how the various methods compare in speed. With a lot of files > they must all be pretty slow, so speed is important. > A worthy question! % find . | wc -l 22531 % time perl -MFile::Find::Rule -MList::Util=max -le 'print scalar localtime(max map { (stat($_))[9] } find->in("."))' Thu Jan 10 15:20:58 2008 real 0m1.122s user 0m0.918s sys 0m0.203s % perl -le 'print 1000 * 1.122 / 22531' 0.0497980560117172 So that's about 50 usec per file. Comparing with find + awk: % find . -type f -printf "%T@\n" | awk '{ if ($1 > the_max) { the_max = $1; } } END { print the_max }' 1200000058 % time !! time find . -type f -printf "%T@\n" | awk '{ if ($1 > the_max) { the_max = $1; } } END { print the_max }' 1200000058 real 0m0.168s user 0m0.071s sys 0m0.116s % perl -le 'print 1000000 * 0.168 / 22531' 7.45639341351915 So something like 7usec per file. And just for grins (that's a lot of zeroes!): % perl -le 'print scalar localtime (1200000000)' Thu Jan 10 15:20:00 2008 % perl -le 'print scalar localtime (1300000000)' Sun Mar 13 01:06:40 2011 Mark your calendars, nerds. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080110/8936929f/attachment.htm From florin at iucha.net Thu Jan 10 15:59:50 2008 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:59:50 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree In-Reply-To: <68dbb6fe0801101345q3d365f9er75fda990a1cd9704@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080109225704.GE3477@sherohman.org> <20080109232014.GH27161@iris.iucha.org> <20080109233021.GF3477@sherohman.org> <20080109234120.GI27161@iris.iucha.org> <20080110130034.GN27161@iris.iucha.org> <68dbb6fe0801101046m7ca7af67lf2ef4393633f11e8@mail.gmail.com> <68dbb6fe0801101345q3d365f9er75fda990a1cd9704@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080110215950.GO27161@iris.iucha.org> On Thu, Jan 10, 2008 at 03:45:46PM -0600, John J. Trammell wrote: > On Jan 10, 2008 2:16 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > > I wonder how the various methods compare in speed. With a lot of files > > they must all be pretty slow, so speed is important. > > A worthy question! > > % time perl -MFile::Find::Rule -MList::Util=max -le 'print scalar > localtime(max map { (stat($_))[9] } find->in("."))' > Thu Jan 10 15:20:58 2008 > real 0m1.122s > user 0m0.918s > sys 0m0.203s > > So that's about 50 usec per file. Comparing with find + awk: > > time find . -type f -printf "%T@\n" | awk '{ if ($1 > the_max) { the_max = > $1; } } END { print the_max }' > 1200000058 > > real 0m0.168s > user 0m0.071s > sys 0m0.116s > % perl -le 'print 1000000 * 0.168 / 22531' > 7.45639341351915 > > So something like 7usec per file. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I would like to thank the man page... florin -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080110/6e74afb7/attachment.pgp From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Thu Jan 10 18:03:03 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:03:03 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree In-Reply-To: <68dbb6fe0801101345q3d365f9er75fda990a1cd9704@mail.gmail.com> References: <764011.35466.qm@web53801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20080109225704.GE3477@sherohman.org> <20080109232014.GH27161@iris.iucha.org> <20080109233021.GF3477@sherohman.org> <20080109234120.GI27161@iris.iucha.org> <20080110130034.GN27161@iris.iucha.org> <68dbb6fe0801101046m7ca7af67lf2ef4393633f11e8@mail.gmail.com> <68dbb6fe0801101345q3d365f9er75fda990a1cd9704@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2008, John J. Trammell wrote: > % perl -le 'print scalar localtime (1200000000)' > Thu Jan 10 15:20:00 2008 > % perl -le 'print scalar localtime (1300000000)' > Sun Mar 13 01:06:40 2011 > > Mark your calendars, nerds. I can't believe I wasn't looking when the odometer turned over and now I have to drive another 100 million seconds to see it happen again! At least it's going to be at 1:00 am, so I know I'll be awake to see it! Mike From wilson at visi.com Fri Jan 11 14:01:23 2008 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:01:23 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Config for mail relay In-Reply-To: References: <82D48AD3-A1C9-4C96-BB1D-7AB8D4BD75F4@visi.com> Message-ID: <203DD493-E70E-4632-9B2F-7CFB338A69E5@visi.com> Hey everyone, I'm finally getting back to working on the mail relay problem I was having a couple weeks ago. To recap: I'd like to have a simple email server (mail.buffalo.k12.mn.us) sitting on our network that will simply relay mail sent from various servers (like our nagios server) out to the Internet, but with the return address domain set to our standard one (buffalo.k12.mn.us). I wouldn't even need this except that configuring our GroupWise system to do this has been a hassle, and I figured this would be a simpler solution. I've got it working internally. I can email any user on our GroupWise system from my user account on the server (Ubuntu 6.06 w/ postfix as the MTA). When I try to send a test message to my visi address I get the following in mail.log on the mail server: Jan 11 13:48:25 mail postfix/smtp[8221]: connect to smx.visi.com.redcondor.net[208.80.202.253]: server dropped connection without sending the initial SMTP greeting (port 25) Jan 11 13:48:25 mail postfix/smtp[8221]: 441041584AB: to=, relay=none, delay=0, status=deferred (connect to smx.visi.com.redcondor.net[208.80.202.253]: server dropped connection without sending the initial SMTP greeting) I called visi, and the tech said she wasn't even seeing the message hitting their server. She did say that there is no MX record listed for mail.bufffalo.k12.mn.us. Would that matter if this server is sending mail as buffalo.k12.mn.us? Perhaps visi is doing some reverse dns on the mail.buffalo.k12.mn.us IP and rejecting it? If anyone has a moment to look at my main.cf and master.cf configs below, I'd sure appreciate it. Or perhaps someone would be willing to look at their server logs as I try to send a test message? Here's my main.cf: --snip-- smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP $mail_name (Ubuntu) biff = no # appending .domain is the MUA's job. append_dot_mydomain = no alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases #disable_dns_lookups = no masquerade_exceptions = root masquerade_classes = envelope_sender, header_sender, header_recipient myhostname = mail.buffalo.k12.mn.us masquerade_domains = buffalo.k12.mn.us mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain mynetworks = 10.0.0.0/8 relayhost = --snip-- And here's my master.cf: --snip-- # # Postfix master process configuration file. For details on the format # of the file, see the Postfix master(5) manual page. # # = = ======================================================================== # service type private unpriv chroot wakeup maxproc command + args # (yes) (yes) (yes) (never) (100) # = = ======================================================================== smtp inet n - - - - smtpd #submission inet n - - - - smtpd # -o smtpd_etrn_restrictions=reject # -o smtpd_client_restrictions=permit_sasl_authenticated,reject #smtps inet n - - - - smtpd # -o smtpd_tls_wrappermode=yes -o smtpd_sasl_auth_enable=yes #submission inet n - - - - smtpd # -o smtpd_etrn_restrictions=reject # -o smtpd_enforce_tls=yes -o smtpd_sasl_auth_enable=yes #628 inet n - - - - qmqpd pickup fifo n - - 60 1 pickup cleanup unix n - - - 0 cleanup qmgr fifo n - n 300 1 qmgr #qmgr fifo n - - 300 1 oqmgr tlsmgr unix - - - 1000? 1 tlsmgr rewrite unix - - - - - trivial-rewrite bounce unix - - - - 0 bounce defer unix - - - - 0 bounce trace unix - - - - 0 bounce verify unix - - - - 1 verify flush unix n - - 1000? 0 flush proxymap unix - - n - - proxymap smtp unix - - - - - smtp # When relaying mail as backup MX, disable fallback_relay to avoid MX loops relay unix - - - - - smtp -o fallback_relay= # -o smtp_helo_timeout=5 -o smtp_connect_timeout=5 showq unix n - - - - showq error unix - - - - - error discard unix - - - - - discard #local unix - n n - - local virtual unix - n n - - virtual lmtp unix - - - - - lmtp anvil unix - - - - 1 anvil scache unix - - - - 1 scache # # ==================================================================== # Interfaces to non-Postfix software. Be sure to examine the manual # pages of the non-Postfix software to find out what options it wants. # # Many of the following services use the Postfix pipe(8) delivery # agent. See the pipe(8) man page for information about ${recipient} # and other message envelope options. # ==================================================================== # # maildrop. See the Postfix MAILDROP_README file for details. # Also specify in main.cf: maildrop_destination_recipient_limit=1 # maildrop unix - n n - - pipe flags=DRhu user=vmail argv=/usr/bin/maildrop -d ${recipient} # # See the Postfix UUCP_README file for configuration details. # uucp unix - n n - - pipe flags=Fqhu user=uucp argv=uux -r -n -z -a$sender - $nexthop!rmail ($recipient) # # Other external delivery methods. # ifmail unix - n n - - pipe flags=F user=ftn argv=/usr/lib/ifmail/ifmail -r $nexthop ($recipient) bsmtp unix - n n - - pipe flags=Fq. user=bsmtp argv=/usr/lib/bsmtp/bsmtp -t$nexthop -f$sender $recipient scalemail-backend unix - n n - 2 pipe flags=R user=scalemail argv=/usr/lib/scalemail/bin/scalemail-store $ {nexthop} ${user} ${extension} mailman unix - n n - - pipe flags=FR user=list argv=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py ${nexthop} ${user} --snip-- I'd appreciate any pointers on this. Thanks everybody. -Tim -- Tim Wilson, The Savvy Technologist Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson at visi.com aim: tis270 blog and podcast: http://technosavvy.org From webmaster at mn-linux.org Fri Jan 11 15:38:07 2008 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 15:38:07 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200801112138.m0BLc7010168@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Free Subject: 15 various good monitors We have 15 tested good monitors looking for a new home. First come, first serve. Got to clear out ASAP or sooner. You pick up. Contact Diana @ 952-345-8720. Near 694 & 100 in St Louis Park. Seller Email address: wdtj at yahoo dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From marc at e-skinner.net Fri Jan 11 16:25:45 2008 From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 16:25:45 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Config for mail relay In-Reply-To: <203DD493-E70E-4632-9B2F-7CFB338A69E5@visi.com> References: <82D48AD3-A1C9-4C96-BB1D-7AB8D4BD75F4@visi.com> <203DD493-E70E-4632-9B2F-7CFB338A69E5@visi.com> Message-ID: <4787ECE9.9040606@e-skinner.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 most SMTP serves do a reverse DNS check on incoming SMTP servers. so if your server is going out an ip address that doesn't have its RDNS set to mail.buffalo.k12.mn.us - i would guess that might be a good place to start. it is supposed to cut down on spam, in reality, i think it just cuts down email being set out from mis-configured email servers. if you don't want your server talking directly to the internet, or can't get the RDNS setup - you can always make it relay email to anther internal SMTP server, like a GroupWise server, which then if configured to relay out, should work just fine. Tim Wilson wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I'm finally getting back to working on the mail relay problem I was > having a couple weeks ago. To recap: I'd like to have a simple email > server (mail.buffalo.k12.mn.us) sitting on our network that will > simply relay mail sent from various servers (like our nagios server) > out to the Internet, but with the return address domain set to our > standard one (buffalo.k12.mn.us). I wouldn't even need this except > that configuring our GroupWise system to do this has been a hassle, > and I figured this would be a simpler solution. > > I've got it working internally. I can email any user on our GroupWise > system from my user account on the server (Ubuntu 6.06 w/ postfix as > the MTA). When I try to send a test message to my visi address I get > the following in mail.log on the mail server: > > Jan 11 13:48:25 mail postfix/smtp[8221]: connect to > smx.visi.com.redcondor.net[208.80.202.253]: server dropped connection > without sending the initial SMTP greeting (port 25) > Jan 11 13:48:25 mail postfix/smtp[8221]: 441041584AB: to= >, relay=none, delay=0, status=deferred (connect to > smx.visi.com.redcondor.net[208.80.202.253]: server dropped connection > without sending the initial SMTP greeting) > > I called visi, and the tech said she wasn't even seeing the message > hitting their server. She did say that there is no MX record listed > for mail.bufffalo.k12.mn.us. Would that matter if this server is > sending mail as buffalo.k12.mn.us? Perhaps visi is doing some reverse > dns on the mail.buffalo.k12.mn.us IP and rejecting it? > > If anyone has a moment to look at my main.cf and master.cf configs > below, I'd sure appreciate it. Or perhaps someone would be willing to > look at their server logs as I try to send a test message? > > Here's my main.cf: > > --snip-- > smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP $mail_name (Ubuntu) > biff = no > > # appending .domain is the MUA's job. > append_dot_mydomain = no > > alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases > alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases > > #disable_dns_lookups = no > masquerade_exceptions = root > masquerade_classes = envelope_sender, header_sender, header_recipient > myhostname = mail.buffalo.k12.mn.us > masquerade_domains = buffalo.k12.mn.us > mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain > mynetworks = 10.0.0.0/8 > relayhost = > --snip-- > > And here's my master.cf: > > --snip-- > # > # Postfix master process configuration file. For details on the format > # of the file, see the Postfix master(5) manual page. > # > # > = > = > ======================================================================== > # service type private unpriv chroot wakeup maxproc command + args > # (yes) (yes) (yes) (never) (100) > # > = > = > ======================================================================== > smtp inet n - - - - smtpd > #submission inet n - - - - smtpd > # -o smtpd_etrn_restrictions=reject > # -o smtpd_client_restrictions=permit_sasl_authenticated,reject > #smtps inet n - - - - smtpd > # -o smtpd_tls_wrappermode=yes -o smtpd_sasl_auth_enable=yes > #submission inet n - - - - smtpd > # -o smtpd_etrn_restrictions=reject > # -o smtpd_enforce_tls=yes -o smtpd_sasl_auth_enable=yes > #628 inet n - - - - qmqpd > pickup fifo n - - 60 1 pickup > cleanup unix n - - - 0 cleanup > qmgr fifo n - n 300 1 qmgr > #qmgr fifo n - - 300 1 oqmgr > tlsmgr unix - - - 1000? 1 tlsmgr > rewrite unix - - - - - trivial-rewrite > bounce unix - - - - 0 bounce > defer unix - - - - 0 bounce > trace unix - - - - 0 bounce > verify unix - - - - 1 verify > flush unix n - - 1000? 0 flush > proxymap unix - - n - - proxymap > smtp unix - - - - - smtp > # When relaying mail as backup MX, disable fallback_relay to avoid MX > loops > relay unix - - - - - smtp > -o fallback_relay= > # -o smtp_helo_timeout=5 -o smtp_connect_timeout=5 > showq unix n - - - - showq > error unix - - - - - error > discard unix - - - - - discard > #local unix - n n - - local > virtual unix - n n - - virtual > lmtp unix - - - - - lmtp > anvil unix - - - - 1 anvil > scache unix - - - - 1 scache > # > # ==================================================================== > # Interfaces to non-Postfix software. Be sure to examine the manual > # pages of the non-Postfix software to find out what options it wants. > # > # Many of the following services use the Postfix pipe(8) delivery > # agent. See the pipe(8) man page for information about ${recipient} > # and other message envelope options. > # ==================================================================== > # > # maildrop. See the Postfix MAILDROP_README file for details. > # Also specify in main.cf: maildrop_destination_recipient_limit=1 > # > maildrop unix - n n - - pipe > flags=DRhu user=vmail argv=/usr/bin/maildrop -d ${recipient} > # > # See the Postfix UUCP_README file for configuration details. > # > uucp unix - n n - - pipe > flags=Fqhu user=uucp argv=uux -r -n -z -a$sender - $nexthop!rmail > ($recipient) > # > # Other external delivery methods. > # > ifmail unix - n n - - pipe > flags=F user=ftn argv=/usr/lib/ifmail/ifmail -r $nexthop ($recipient) > bsmtp unix - n n - - pipe > flags=Fq. user=bsmtp argv=/usr/lib/bsmtp/bsmtp -t$nexthop -f$sender > $recipient > scalemail-backend unix - n n - 2 pipe > flags=R user=scalemail argv=/usr/lib/scalemail/bin/scalemail-store $ > {nexthop} ${user} ${extension} > mailman unix - n n - - pipe > flags=FR user=list argv=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py > ${nexthop} ${user} > --snip-- > > I'd appreciate any pointers on this. Thanks everybody. > > -Tim > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHh+zpvE9HrEfeE4cRArEcAKDPycABD3c+uEfovCqiaHVrY8/xEQCfd11s r6tIqGmM534LB+BA0f7v3Ro= =XoQx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From florin at iucha.net Sat Jan 12 01:56:33 2008 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 01:56:33 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Config for mail relay In-Reply-To: <4787ECE9.9040606@e-skinner.net> References: <82D48AD3-A1C9-4C96-BB1D-7AB8D4BD75F4@visi.com> <203DD493-E70E-4632-9B2F-7CFB338A69E5@visi.com> <4787ECE9.9040606@e-skinner.net> Message-ID: <20080112075633.GR27161@iris.iucha.org> On Fri, Jan 11, 2008 at 04:25:45PM -0600, Marc Skinner wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > most SMTP serves do a reverse DNS check on incoming SMTP servers. so if > your server is going out an ip address that doesn't have its RDNS set to > mail.buffalo.k12.mn.us - i would guess that might be a good place to > start. it is supposed to cut down on spam, in reality, i think it just > cuts down email being set out from mis-configured email servers. On the e-mail servers that I admin, I get 55-60% connections from servers without reverse DNS. 99% of those connections are delivering SPAM. This data is from December 2007. Cheers, florin -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080112/bc5a4e6d/attachment.pgp From hewhocutsdown at gmail.com Sat Jan 12 07:20:07 2008 From: hewhocutsdown at gmail.com (Jordan Peacock) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 07:20:07 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] External RAID 5 SATA enclosures Message-ID: Well, after much looking and research I've determined to put together a 4-disk SATA external enclosure, and use RAID 5 to get 3/4 of the capacity with a parity drive. Anybody done the same, and if so, what would you recommend for an enclosure? How is the power consumption typically? Any pros/cons I should concern myself with? Primary system will be a Linux box, drives will likely be formatted as ext2 or 3. -- Jordan Peacock hewhocutsdown at gmail.com hewhocutsdown.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080112/ac997388/attachment.htm From marc at e-skinner.net Sat Jan 12 08:31:16 2008 From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 08:31:16 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] External RAID 5 SATA enclosures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4788CF34.6010401@e-skinner.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Jordan Peacock wrote: > Well, after much looking and research I've determined to put together a > 4-disk SATA external enclosure, and use RAID 5 to get 3/4 of the capacity > with a parity drive. > > Anybody done the same, and if so, what would you recommend for an enclosure? > How is the power consumption typically? Any pros/cons I should concern > myself with? > > Primary system will be a Linux box, drives will likely be formatted as ext2 > or 3. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list I just built a dedicated 2.5TB file system, parts I used: 6 x 500gb seagate sata2 16mb cache drives ($130 each) 1 x mg-sa3541 8-port sata2 pci-x jbod card (doesn't not do hardware raid) ($139) 1 amd mobo combo from microcenter with 1 gb ram http://cps7.00b.net/498/content_load/523/enews0110view.html (i chose the dual core amd for $107) 1 additional 1gb of ram for a total of 2gb of ram - (addtional stick $29) 1 antec case http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0246524 ( was on sale for $59) 1 cooler master ps http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0258432 ( was on sale for $30) so total cost: $1144 i can't believe how cheap hardware has gotten, and with mail in rebates you can save another %15-30 per item if you get them at the right time. and another %30 if you get them on sale. the disks were by far the most expensive, but i went with seagate as they have a 5yr warranty and i have always had very good luck with them. i know own 18 of the 500gb seagate sata2 disks across 6 systems, and haven't had any issues with any of them for over a year now. (knock on wood) i choose to go with software raid (raid5), primarily to keep the cost down, i know it would of only added another couple hundred, but with the processor speeds these days and the excellent throughput of disks and the jbod controller, i don't really think i'm missing much. plus, unless you go with hot plug caddy/disk system, your aren't really able to take advantage of the hot recovery options in a raid card anyway. the case i chose was simple - it was a 10bay system, on sale, and after looking into it, it has a lot of large fans. it includes two disk drive enclosures that each contain 3 disks, and provide a dedicated fan for each enclosure. so my drives will be nice and cool. a year ago i built another file server and didn't get enough fans in it, and the disks were getting too hot, which required me to purchase disk drive mounted fans. which has worked but not the way i wanted it to. i'm thinking i'll move that file server into a new antec nine hundred case the next time they go on sale. anyway, this worked for me - as always, with linux there are hundreds of ways to do things. i was going to use an old dual p3-500 mobo, but when i saw i could upgrade to a dual core for $100 - that is pretty much a no brainer. so concerns would be cooling. make sure your drives have enough cooling and airflow - if not, you'll be replacing them left and right. good luck! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHiM80vE9HrEfeE4cRAuVtAKCf9sxUDgpPdPsOb1XeDbU6TxUOcQCgjbym 7BPlYNcsPJkpaqdBeNTomUQ= =/458 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From justin.kremer at gmail.com Sat Jan 12 08:56:46 2008 From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 08:56:46 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: External RAID 5 SATA enclosures Message-ID: <27e6356a0801120656n107a7f90s9f9496f9eb46dfaf@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 12, 2008 7:20 AM, Jordan Peacock wrote: > Well, after much looking and research I've determined to put together a > 4-disk SATA external enclosure, and use RAID 5 to get 3/4 of the capacity > with a parity drive. Are you looking for an enclosure that specifically has an e-sata interface, or are you also interested in enclosures that have a SCSI or fibrechannel interface that use SATA drives? Are you looking for an enclosure that does hardware RAID or an enclosure that just provides a multi-drive connection? (JBOD) FWIW, I would urge you to reconsider your decision to use RAID5, if your data is important. I work for a local company that specializes in storage solutions, and over the last several years the market has driven us into selling SCSI/Fibre to SATA RAIDs, and I believe that the market demand for RAIDs with SATA drives is what really drove RAID hardware designers to include RAID6. SATA drives were not intended to be RAID drives. They were intended to be the next generation of desktop commodity drive. All too often, we see drives fail (often due to bad blocks) during the rebuild of a RAID after a different drive failed. If you are running RAID6, that's no problem. You have two drives worth of parity data, and your rebuild keeps going, though you'll need to replace the other failed drive once that rebuild is complete. If you're running RAID5, your rebuild just failed. Your data is gone. Sorry. I hope it wasn't important. If it was, Ontrack will help you to discover just how important (in $) your data really was. > Anybody done the same, and if so, what would you recommend for an enclosure? > How is the power consumption typically? Any pros/cons I should concern > myself with? That really depends on your budget, and also on your answer to my first couple questions. As far as RAID hardware goes, you usually get what you pay for. Power consumption would probably be somewhere in the 200-600W range, depending on the enclosure. I hope that was helpful, but I didn't want to turn my response into an advertisement. -- Justin Kremer From joey.rockhold at gmail.com Sun Jan 13 18:21:04 2008 From: joey.rockhold at gmail.com (Joey Rockhold) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 18:21:04 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Zonbu laptops Message-ID: <101e49ea0801131621w5b640f55r117fdb8b3e5ca616@mail.gmail.com> I am looking for a laptop that full supports linux, and at the same time I am looking for the cheapest deal. I am curious if anyone has tried a laptop from Zonbu ( http://www.zonbu.com/home/ ). This laptop's use will pretty much be 10% web browsing and email, and 90% remoting in to desktop computers, so I do not need much hardware power. Wi-Fi is the most important feature. If anyone has any other suggestions, I welcome them. I just ask that it be 12" screen or bigger. Thanks! - Joey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080113/225aa34d/attachment.htm From andyzib at gmail.com Sun Jan 13 22:12:58 2008 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 22:12:58 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: External RAID 5 SATA enclosures In-Reply-To: <27e6356a0801120656n107a7f90s9f9496f9eb46dfaf@mail.gmail.com> References: <27e6356a0801120656n107a7f90s9f9496f9eb46dfaf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > if your data is important. > Your data is gone. Sorry. I hope it wasn't important. If it was, Ontrack > will help you to discover just how important (in $) your data really > was. Justin just underscored that RAID is not a replacement for backups. So everyone join in and sing... To the tune of "If you're happy and you know it": If you can't afford to loose it back it up. *clap*clap*clap* If you can't afford to loose it back it up. *clap*clap*clap* If you can't afford to loose it than there's no way to excuse it. If you can't afford to loose it back it up. *clap*clap*clap* -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com From hewhocutsdown at gmail.com Sun Jan 13 22:38:19 2008 From: hewhocutsdown at gmail.com (Jordan Peacock) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 22:38:19 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: External RAID 5 SATA enclosures In-Reply-To: References: <27e6356a0801120656n107a7f90s9f9496f9eb46dfaf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Yeah, I understand RAID is not a replacement for backups. I'm working on an offsite backup. I don't immediate backup, so I guess even the RAID5 would be unnecessary; RAID6 will be overkill. I suppose JBOD or RAID 0 is all that's really necessary then. I guess there's really 2 options: if immediate ability to restore is necessary and SATA is necessary, you're correct; RAID6 sounds better, especially considering the above factors. On the other hand, if I make effective the offsite backup, and don't require an immediate restore, I can take the extra time and restore from the offsite backup; a far more cost-effective solution. I'll weigh the other factors; that alone helps immensely. On Jan 13, 2008 10:12 PM, Andrew Zbikowski wrote: > > if your data is important. > > Your data is gone. Sorry. I hope it wasn't important. If it was, > Ontrack > > will help you to discover just how important (in $) your data really > > was. > > Justin just underscored that RAID is not a replacement for backups. So > everyone join in and sing... > > To the tune of "If you're happy and you know it": > > If you can't afford to loose it back it up. > *clap*clap*clap* > If you can't afford to loose it back it up. > *clap*clap*clap* > If you can't afford to loose it > than there's no way to excuse it. > If you can't afford to loose it back it up. > *clap*clap*clap* > > -- > Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us > IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Jordan Peacock hewhocutsdown at gmail.com hewhocutsdown.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080113/107951b3/attachment.htm From jack at jacku.com Sun Jan 13 23:15:29 2008 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 23:15:29 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Zonbu laptops In-Reply-To: <101e49ea0801131621w5b640f55r117fdb8b3e5ca616@mail.gmail.com> References: <101e49ea0801131621w5b640f55r117fdb8b3e5ca616@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200801132315.29480.jack@jacku.com> On Sunday 13 January 2008 6:21 pm, Joey Rockhold wrote: > I am looking for a laptop that full supports linux, and at the same time I > am looking for the cheapest deal. I am curious if anyone has tried a > laptop from Zonbu ( http://www.zonbu.com/home/ ). > > This laptop's use will pretty much be 10% web browsing and email, and 90% > remoting in to desktop computers, so I do not need much hardware power. > Wi-Fi is the most important feature. > > If anyone has any other suggestions, I welcome them. I just ask that it be > 12" screen or bigger. > > Thanks! > > - Joey MicroCenter has a deal on an Acer Laptop for $379.99. Unfortunately their website is currently of the opinion that they don't carry that even though its featured on the home page. Not sure of the specs beyond: Acer Aspire 4315-2004. $529.99 - $150 instant savings. No requirement of a $14.95/month plan unless you want that service. Jack -- Jack Ungerleider jack at jacku.com http://www.jacku.com From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Mon Jan 14 00:11:50 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 00:11:50 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] OT: External RAID 5 SATA enclosures In-Reply-To: References: <27e6356a0801120656n107a7f90s9f9496f9eb46dfaf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Jan 2008, Andrew Zbikowski wrote: > Justin just underscored that RAID is not a replacement for backups. Some kinds of RAID are a kind of backup. If one drive is mirroring another, it is a backup copy in case the first drive fails. That said, of course you'd be completely crazy not to have daily tape backups transported by Brinks to four distant locations in the US and stored in vaults with guard dogs and armed security staff. Or maybe just copies at home and office would work. Mike From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Mon Jan 14 00:18:26 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 00:18:26 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] script for keeping track of DVDs Message-ID: See the attached script. It is a bash script and it requires that wget, perl and the usual GNU versions of egrep, grep and date are in the path. This script allows you to maintain a web page that has this format: http://taxa.epi.umn.edu/DVD_example2.html Every time you want to add a DVD at the bottom of that table, just go to IMDb.com, find the movie there, then do this from your command line: movie_add URL where "URL" is the IMDb URL for the movie title, or... movie_add URL filename ...to add the table row to the file "filename". I'm using this to keep track of DVDs I own and share with friends. It can also be used instead to keep track of which movies you've seen -- just add a each movie to the table and put a short review or rating in the "notes" column. Mike -------------- next part -------------- #!/bin/bash # Script name: movie_add # # Author: Michael B. Miller http://taxa.epi.umn.edu/~mbmiller/ # # License: GNU General Public License, Version 3 or later: # http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html # # This script is for helping the user to keep track of a DVD # collection. You might want to lend some of your DVDs to your # friends and this will provide you with a nice shareable list and a # way to add notes to it (e.g., to keep track of who you lent your DVD # to). The script takes an Internet Movie Database (IMDb) URL for a # movie title as input and it uses the IMDb information to add a row # for that movie at the end of an HTML table. This makes it easy to # maintain a page with this format: # # http://taxa.epi.umn.edu/DVD_example2.html # # You must create the initial lines of the HTML file including the # beginning of the table for DVD records. Here is an example of such # a template file: # # http://taxa.epi.umn.edu/DVD_example.html # # That file is freely available for you to use and to edit as you please. # # Syntax: # # movie_add URL # # where "URL" is an IMDb URL for a movie title such as # http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068646/ # # Every line of the table is represented as three lines in the HTML. # To add/edit a note to a movie record, just go to the end of its # third line in the HTML and insert the note near the end between # " " and "". # # To go from the empty template "example" file above to the "example2" # file with three movies listed, I would only have to run these three # commands and use an editor to at the "note" (assuming that the # "example" template was set to be my default file --see below): # # movie_add http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116282/ # movie_add http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075686/ # movie_add http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088258/ # # How does this script know which file to change? This is determined # by the "export file=" line below. If you would like to use a # different default file for keeping track of your DVDs, you must # change that line. It is also possible to work with a file other # than the default file simply by specifying the filename on the # command line: # # movie_add URL filename export file="$HOME/www/DVD_library/index.html" if [ "$#" -lt 1 ]; then echo ERROR: no arguments were given but $0 requires that either one or two arguments be given echo try using this command to get more information: echo less $0 else export URL="$1" if [ "$#" = "2" ]; then export file="$2" fi if [ "$#" -gt 2 ]; then echo ERROR: $# arguments were given but $0 requires that either one or two arguments be given echo try using this command to get more information: echo less $0 else # There are two lines of code below. The first line is wrapped # for readability. wget -q -O - "$URL" | grep -P -A1 '.+|User Rating:' | \ egrep -v 'meta name|^--|User Rating:' | \ perl -pe "s##\n<TR><TD> <a href=\042$URL\042># ; \ s## # ; \ s#([0-9]+.*[0-9]*)/10 *#\$1# ; \ s#//ratings#/ratings#" >> "$file" echo ' '$(date +"%B %e, %Y")' ' >> "$file" fi fi From kc0iog at gmail.com Mon Jan 14 09:32:22 2008 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:32:22 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] [scalug] Zonbu laptops In-Reply-To: <101e49ea0801131621w5b640f55r117fdb8b3e5ca616@mail.gmail.com> References: <101e49ea0801131621w5b640f55r117fdb8b3e5ca616@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c6699da0801140732habcd0e8k14a9c2e9e9b63943@mail.gmail.com> 2008/1/13 Joey Rockhold : > I am looking for a laptop that full supports linux, and at the same time I > am looking for the cheapest deal. I am curious if anyone has tried a laptop > from Zonbu ( http://www.zonbu.com/home/ ). > Sounds interesting, perhaps this is testing the waters for a new model (buy the support, software and laptop are cheap/free). They promise upgrade protection, but it appears to be limited to software (already free). What would be really cool with this type of model would be to offer upgrade protection on the hardware as well, sort of a lease type deal. If they had a deal where you could trade in your laptop at the end of 2 years, say for $100 and another 2 yr contract, this would be a neat way to get shiny new laptops with adequate specs. Obviously this deal doesn't cover that, and it looks like you will get screwed in the long run, paying for updates (already free) and support (mostly free). I think if you bought this laptop, both LUGs would be interested in helping you test their "unlimited support". If it's live, knowledgeable folks this would be a neat deal. My hunch tells me it's someone searching Google and sending you URLs. In the case of the latter, not a good deal at all. I echo Jack's reply, shop around for a good promo/loss leader special on a laptop. You'll spend more in the long run on this Zonbu thing. The only reason to go with Zonbu is if you're willing to spend money to test a new business model. Of course there's always the chance that this venture will fold, and you get out of your contract with a cheap laptop. That's a risk you'll have to decide if you want to take. You could always look into OLPC as well. -Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080114/db45db69/attachment-0001.htm From j at packetgod.com Mon Jan 14 10:43:20 2008 From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:43:20 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] [scalug] Zonbu laptops In-Reply-To: <2c6699da0801140732habcd0e8k14a9c2e9e9b63943@mail.gmail.com> References: <101e49ea0801131621w5b640f55r117fdb8b3e5ca616@mail.gmail.com> <2c6699da0801140732habcd0e8k14a9c2e9e9b63943@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <38aa5b6a0801140843o57922447u8758316b4dbdc815@mail.gmail.com> I did buy a Zonbu desktop a month or so ago, its small cute and quiet. But I can only say that I like the hardware as I wiped the system and am using it as my Myth Frontend box. Which it seems to be capable enough of, although sometimes it takes a few seconds to switch menus. So because I got the "free version" I have no clue about their software or support. Kind of cool hard drive on the Internet idea though utilizing Amazons storage option. Neat idea. --j On 1/14/08, Brian Wall wrote: > > 2008/1/13 Joey Rockhold : > > > I am looking for a laptop that full supports linux, and at the same time > > I am looking for the cheapest deal. I am curious if anyone has tried a > > laptop from Zonbu ( http://www.zonbu.com/home/ ). > > > > Sounds interesting, perhaps this is testing the waters for a new model > (buy the support, software and laptop are cheap/free). > > They promise upgrade protection, but it appears to be limited to software > (already free). What would be really cool with this type of model would be > to offer upgrade protection on the hardware as well, sort of a lease type > deal. If they had a deal where you could trade in your laptop at the end of > 2 years, say for $100 and another 2 yr contract, this would be a neat way to > get shiny new laptops with adequate specs. Obviously this deal doesn't > cover that, and it looks like you will get screwed in the long run, paying > for updates (already free) and support (mostly free). > > I think if you bought this laptop, both LUGs would be interested in > helping you test their "unlimited support". If it's live, knowledgeable > folks this would be a neat deal. My hunch tells me it's someone searching > Google and sending you URLs. In the case of the latter, not a good deal at > all. > > I echo Jack's reply, shop around for a good promo/loss leader special on a > laptop. You'll spend more in the long run on this Zonbu thing. The only > reason to go with Zonbu is if you're willing to spend money to test a new > business model. Of course there's always the chance that this venture will > fold, and you get out of your contract with a cheap laptop. That's a risk > you'll have to decide if you want to take. > > You could always look into OLPC as well. > > -Brian > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080114/8f6f3cef/attachment.htm From kc0iog at gmail.com Mon Jan 14 11:34:07 2008 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:34:07 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] [scalug] Zonbu laptops In-Reply-To: <38aa5b6a0801140843o57922447u8758316b4dbdc815@mail.gmail.com> References: <101e49ea0801131621w5b640f55r117fdb8b3e5ca616@mail.gmail.com> <2c6699da0801140732habcd0e8k14a9c2e9e9b63943@mail.gmail.com> <38aa5b6a0801140843o57922447u8758316b4dbdc815@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c6699da0801140934n375c9db3y38265bf78788b107@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 14, 2008 10:43 AM, J Cruit wrote: > I did buy a Zonbu desktop a month or so ago, its small cute and quiet. > But I can only say that I like the hardware as I wiped the system and am > using it as my Myth Frontend box. Which it seems to be capable enough of, > although sometimes it takes a few seconds to switch menus. Before you wiped it, did you happen to see which distro was installed on it? -Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080114/cf0d6c7a/attachment.htm From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Mon Jan 14 11:58:00 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:58:00 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] [scalug] Zonbu laptops In-Reply-To: <2c6699da0801140934n375c9db3y38265bf78788b107@mail.gmail.com> References: <101e49ea0801131621w5b640f55r117fdb8b3e5ca616@mail.gmail.com> <2c6699da0801140732habcd0e8k14a9c2e9e9b63943@mail.gmail.com> <38aa5b6a0801140843o57922447u8758316b4dbdc815@mail.gmail.com> <2c6699da0801140934n375c9db3y38265bf78788b107@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Jan 2008, Brian Wall wrote: > On Jan 14, 2008 10:43 AM, J Cruit wrote: > >> I did buy a Zonbu desktop a month or so ago, its small cute and quiet. >> But I can only say that I like the hardware as I wiped the system and >> am using it as my Myth Frontend box. Which it seems to be capable >> enough of, although sometimes it takes a few seconds to switch menus. > > Before you wiped it, did you happen to see which distro was installed on > it? I was trying to figure out what the Zonbu scheme was about, but their web pages weren't very well organized. It looks like I was getting my best information from the news articles linked from the Zonbu "reviews" page: http://www.zonbu.com/why_zonbu/reviews.htm According to the NY Times article, the distro is Gentoo: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/16/technology/16cheap.html The Zonbu PC also uses a Gentoo version of the Linux operating system and will come with a range of software applications like the Mozilla Firefox browser, Skype voice-over-Internet service, OpenOffice software suite and many games. I don't know that it's always Gentoo, but I would guess that makes it easier for Zonbu folks to maintain the boxes. Mike From jack at jacku.com Mon Jan 14 22:54:44 2008 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 22:54:44 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] [scalug] Zonbu laptops In-Reply-To: References: <101e49ea0801131621w5b640f55r117fdb8b3e5ca616@mail.gmail.com> <2c6699da0801140934n375c9db3y38265bf78788b107@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200801142254.45204.jack@jacku.com> On Monday 14 January 2008 11:58 am, Mike Miller wrote: > On Mon, 14 Jan 2008, Brian Wall wrote: > > On Jan 14, 2008 10:43 AM, J Cruit wrote: > >> I did buy a Zonbu desktop a month or so ago, its small cute and quiet. > >> But I can only say that I like the hardware as I wiped the system and > >> am using it as my Myth Frontend box. Which it seems to be capable > >> enough of, although sometimes it takes a few seconds to switch menus. > > > > Before you wiped it, did you happen to see which distro was installed on > > it? > > I was trying to figure out what the Zonbu scheme was about, but their web > pages weren't very well organized. It looks like I was getting my best > information from the news articles linked from the Zonbu "reviews" page: > > http://www.zonbu.com/why_zonbu/reviews.htm > > According to the NY Times article, the distro is Gentoo: > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/16/technology/16cheap.html > > The Zonbu PC also uses a Gentoo version of the Linux operating system > and will come with a range of software applications like the Mozilla > Firefox browser, Skype voice-over-Internet service, OpenOffice software > suite and many games. > > I don't know that it's always Gentoo, but I would guess that makes it > easier for Zonbu folks to maintain the boxes. > > Mike For those looking for more info on Zonbu there is a review of the Zonbu PC in the February 2008 issue of Linux Journal. -- Jack Ungerleider jack at jacku.com http://www.jacku.com From teeahr1 at gmail.com Tue Jan 15 00:23:20 2008 From: teeahr1 at gmail.com (p.daniels) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 00:23:20 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] lost virtual consoles Message-ID: <200801150023.20467.TeeAhr1@gmail.com> From the "you learn something new every day" dept... I have managed to misplace my ttys after installing KDE4 on my Kubuntu machine. Pressing Ctrl-Alt-F(1-6) puts my monitor to sleep. F7 still brings me back. And that's about what I know. I can't seem to find much info by searching for this, but I'll admit I'm not sure what to search for. Can anyone offer me some advice on how to start troubleshooting this? thx- pd From poptix at poptix.net Tue Jan 15 02:49:38 2008 From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 02:49:38 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: External RAID 5 SATA enclosures In-Reply-To: References: <27e6356a0801120656n107a7f90s9f9496f9eb46dfaf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <478C73A2.60507@poptix.net> Andrew Zbikowski wrote: >> if your data is important. >> Your data is gone. Sorry. I hope it wasn't important. If it was, Ontrack >> will help you to discover just how important (in $) your data really >> was. > > Justin just underscored that RAID is not a replacement for backups. So > everyone join in and sing... As we tell our customers: RAID is for high data availability, backups are for data loss prevention. If you need high data availability, don't cheap out with some pseudo software RAID controller. From slushpupie at gmail.com Tue Jan 15 09:13:46 2008 From: slushpupie at gmail.com (Jay Kline) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 09:13:46 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] lost virtual consoles In-Reply-To: <200801150023.20467.TeeAhr1@gmail.com> References: <200801150023.20467.TeeAhr1@gmail.com> Message-ID: <478CCDAA.3060105@gmail.com> p.daniels wrote: > From the "you learn something new every day" dept... I have managed to > misplace my ttys after installing KDE4 on my Kubuntu machine. Pressing > Ctrl-Alt-F(1-6) puts my monitor to sleep. F7 still brings me back. And > that's about what I know. I can't seem to find much info by searching for > this, but I'll admit I'm not sure what to search for. Can anyone offer me > some advice on how to start troubleshooting this? > Are you using an nvidia card by chance? certain combinations of nvidia cards and nvidia drivers have been known to do this. I dont remember any of the solutions other than upgrading the driver. Jay From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Tue Jan 15 10:46:13 2008 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 10:46:13 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] lost virtual consoles In-Reply-To: <200801150023.20467.TeeAhr1@gmail.com> References: <200801150023.20467.TeeAhr1@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080115104612.A3027@pchelka.space.umn.edu> On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 12:23:20AM -0600, p.daniels wrote: > >From the "you learn something new every day" dept... I have managed to > misplace my ttys after installing KDE4 on my Kubuntu machine. Pressing > Ctrl-Alt-F(1-6) puts my monitor to sleep. F7 still brings me back. And > that's about what I know. I can't seem to find much info by searching for > this, but I'll admit I'm not sure what to search for. Can anyone offer me > some advice on how to start troubleshooting this? You also might want to see is anything changed /etc/inittab . You should have lines something like: # /sbin/getty invocations for the runlevels. # # The "id" field MUST be the same as the last # characters of the device (after "tty"). # # Format: # ::: 1:12345:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty1 2:2345:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty2 3:2345:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty3 4:2345:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty4 5:2345:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty5 6:2345:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty6 "getty" may be replaced by mingetty or something similar. If those lines are in your inittab make sure that you have the binary that they reference. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons | From wdtj at yahoo.com Tue Jan 15 11:38:54 2008 From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 09:38:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree Message-ID: <219958.80229.qm@web53805.mail.re2.yahoo.com> As a follow up to this, I've found that many distros now have a package called inotify-tools that brings the inotify API function to the command line. Nice job Linux community! I know I'll get flamed for this, but windows also has several inotify APIs. Anyone have a lead on a set of inotify-tools like command line utilities for windows? Thanks all. --- Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those 3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, (612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis ----- Original Message ---- From: Leif Johnson To: Wayne Johnson ; tclug Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2008 10:27:20 PM Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree > Anyone know of a quick and easy way to find the date of the newest file in a directory tree. What kind of systems do you want to be doing this on? If it's linux with a kernel version of >= 2.6.13 you might (if it was enabled in the kernel) have inotify available. For a complete description see google, but simply inotify allows a program to watch the file system for events. So you could make a simple process to watch your tree for appropriate events (file modifies etc.) and keep track of what is most recent. leif ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080115/3ed0ea54/attachment.htm From sterling at freakzilla.com Mon Jan 14 00:30:00 2008 From: sterling at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 00:30:00 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] script for keeping track of DVDs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8DC1E43D-DC21-4D93-80C6-BD4F9F814CA3@freakzilla.com> Yeah, I used to use something like that. Then I just decided to use some shareware program on a VM that can export to XML and then run my own mangling scripts that beat the hell out of it and stick it in a mysql database. That way I get every single bit of info I want about the thing and I can always modify my program later on. Mine looks like this: http://yaron.org/dvds/ On Jan 14, 2008, at 0:18, Mike Miller wrote: > See the attached script. It is a bash script and it requires that > wget, perl and the usual GNU versions of egrep, grep and date are > in the path. > > This script allows you to maintain a web page that has this format: > > http://taxa.epi.umn.edu/DVD_example2.html -Yaron -- From daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com Tue Jan 15 13:10:57 2008 From: daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com (Dan Armbrust) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:10:57 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: External RAID 5 SATA enclosures In-Reply-To: References: <27e6356a0801120656n107a7f90s9f9496f9eb46dfaf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <82f04dc40801151110i1d50ddb3r4804fc1cdef7a7ca@mail.gmail.com> > Some kinds of RAID are a kind of backup. If one drive is mirroring > another, it is a backup copy in case the first drive fails. > I usually need backups for operator-error correction more than hardware failure. rm -rf * Hmm, thats taking longer than it should.... what directory am I in again? Oops.... From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Tue Jan 15 13:27:52 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:27:52 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree In-Reply-To: <219958.80229.qm@web53805.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <219958.80229.qm@web53805.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2008, Wayne Johnson wrote: > As a follow up to this, I've found that many distros now have a package > called inotify-tools that brings the inotify API function to the command > line. Nice job Linux community! How does it work for you? What command do you use? Sounds great. Mike From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Tue Jan 15 13:26:30 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:26:30 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] script for keeping track of DVDs In-Reply-To: <8DC1E43D-DC21-4D93-80C6-BD4F9F814CA3@freakzilla.com> References: <8DC1E43D-DC21-4D93-80C6-BD4F9F814CA3@freakzilla.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Jan 2008, Yaron wrote: > Yeah, I used to use something like that. Then I just decided to use some > shareware program on a VM that can export to XML and then run my own > mangling scripts that beat the hell out of it and stick it in a mysql > database. That way I get every single bit of info I want about the thing > and I can always modify my program later on. > > Mine looks like this: http://yaron.org/dvds/ That is a way-cool approach and much more sophisticated than what I've done. To add a new entry to the database, do you just give it a URL to an IMDb title, or what? It looks like maybe that is what you did. The things that were most important to me were (1) I would do almost no work to add a new entry to the list and (2) the list is on the web so that friends can see it. I don't want to have to type info such as director or genre, but if I could scrape them out of IMDb, I'd probably want to do it. I'd also love to have a searchable page like yours. How do you generate pages on the fly? PHP? I will learn more about how to use mysql, etc., over time and may then do something more interesting. Right now I'm avoiding the work of learning all of that but it is on my to-do list. Thanks for sharing that. It is nice work. Once you know how to do that, there is a lot more that you can easily do. One thing that it would be nice to add to your pages is an option for sorting by various fields. Oh -- you already did it: I click on the header and it sorts by that field. Very nice. For me, I would also have "date added" as a sortable field because then people can see which movies were added recently. Mike > On Jan 14, 2008, at 0:18, Mike Miller wrote: > >> See the attached script. It is a bash script and it requires that >> wget, perl and the usual GNU versions of egrep, grep and date are >> in the path. >> >> This script allows you to maintain a web page that has this format: >> >> http://taxa.epi.umn.edu/DVD_example2.html > > > > -Yaron > > -- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Tue Jan 15 13:33:19 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:33:19 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] OT: External RAID 5 SATA enclosures In-Reply-To: <478C73A2.60507@poptix.net> References: <27e6356a0801120656n107a7f90s9f9496f9eb46dfaf@mail.gmail.com> <478C73A2.60507@poptix.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2008, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > If you need high data availability, don't cheap out with some pseudo > software RAID controller. Now you have my interest. We just bought a computer with an Asus P5N-E SLI mother board and we installed Ubuntu GG on it. The mobo specs say "Support RAID0, 1, 0+1, 5, and JBOD," which seems to imply a hardware RAID, but I read this on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID Inexpensive RAID controllers have become popular that are simply a standard disk controller with a BIOS extension implementing RAID in software for the early part of the boot process. A special operating system driver then takes over the raid functionality when the system switches into protected mode. Because these controllers often try to give the impression of being hardware RAID controllers, they are generally known as Fake RAID.[1][2][3][4][5] They do actually implement genuine RAID; the only faking is that they do it in software. (but that is what it used to say two weeks ago and now it is slightly different). So I thought I'd use that "fake RAID" method until I was told that Linux software RAID was just as good and that the BIOS RAID was really only for Windows: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FakeRaidHowto Then we used these instructions... http://users.piuha.net/martti/comp/ubuntu/en/raid.html ...and decided to use the softRAID approach. We got that to work. I don't know if this is a "pseudo software RAID controller" and I don't need to "cheap out" because it isn't my money! So should I be buying a hardware RAID controller? How much will that cost me? What is the benefit of the hardware RAID over softRAID? Mike From wdtj at yahoo.com Tue Jan 15 13:40:29 2008 From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:40:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree Message-ID: <977989.71102.qm@web53805.mail.re2.yahoo.com> First use yum or apt-get to install the package inotify-tools. The commands are: inotifywait and inotifywatch. There are man pages for both in the package. inotifywait - wait for changes to files using inotify [Also monitors the files, dumping events to a log file]. inotifywatch - gather filesystem access statistics using inotify Web site is http://inotify-tools.sourceforge.net/ If your distro does not have the package (and Centos/RHEL didn't) you can download the source from the web site and build it yourself. --- Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those 3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, (612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis ----- Original Message ---- From: Mike Miller To: Wayne Johnson Cc: Leif Johnson ; tclug Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 1:27:52 PM Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree On Tue, 15 Jan 2008, Wayne Johnson wrote: > As a follow up to this, I've found that many distros now have a package > called inotify-tools that brings the inotify API function to the command > line. Nice job Linux community! How does it work for you? What command do you use? Sounds great. Mike ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080115/fb1e1717/attachment.htm From kjh at flyballdogs.com Tue Jan 15 13:42:01 2008 From: kjh at flyballdogs.com (Kathryn Hogg) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:42:01 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] script for keeping track of DVDs In-Reply-To: References: <8DC1E43D-DC21-4D93-80C6-BD4F9F814CA3@freakzilla.com> Message-ID: <45730.209.246.0.14.1200426121.squirrel@www.flyballdogs.com> I just use tellico for managing my CD collection but it supports books, dvds, etc. It supports look ups from a variety of sources (I mostly use the Amarok search) and it is extensible. GCstar is an another application for managing collections. -- Kathryn http://womensfooty.com From tclug at freakzilla.com Tue Jan 15 13:47:41 2008 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:47:41 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] script for keeping track of DVDs In-Reply-To: References: <8DC1E43D-DC21-4D93-80C6-BD4F9F814CA3@freakzilla.com> Message-ID: <360B2C22-A0A3-4AAD-B4C2-B9AA3E129E26@freakzilla.com> > That is a way-cool approach and much more sophisticated than what I've > done. To add a new entry to the database, do you just give it a > URL to an > IMDb title, or what? Originally I had something like that, though I always had to go in manually since I wanted to much info in the db. I tried using the perl-imdb tools but could never get that going. Then my server crashed and the whole db was lost (yeah I know, backups) so I found a program where you put in the DVD's barcode thing and it just has all the info. It's called DVDPro and yeah, it's for Windows, but that's what vmware is for. It USED to be free to non- commercial, but now the "export" only works if you have less than 50 discs in your library. I actually manually put the imdb URL (or whatever URL I want) in the "Notes" section. > The things that were most important to me were (1) I would do > almost no work > to add a new entry to the list and (2) the list is on the web so that > friends can see it. I really originally wrote this thing to learn how to do perl-mysql stuff, since I didn't know anything about mysql. Then I got used to having the db and the web pages. DVDPro lets you actually put the disc in the drive and read the discid, so you don't even have to type the thing in. Then you export to XML and I wrote a script that'll yank that and make it into mysql queries. Fun stuff! > How do you generate pages on the fly? PHP? No, it's perl. I didn't know php at the time. A year later I did more- or-less the same thing for my CDs in order to learn PHP. I'll stick with perl! > One thing that it would be nice to add to your pages is an option for > sorting by various fields. Oh -- you already did it: I click on the > header and it sorts by that field. Very nice. For me, I would > also have > "date added" as a sortable field because then people can see which > movies > were added recently. Yeah, and that's in the db, I'm just not using it at all. Specially since I had to re-add about 150 at more or less the same date.... -Yaron -- From chewie at wookimus.net Tue Jan 15 13:50:12 2008 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:50:12 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: External RAID 5 SATA enclosures In-Reply-To: References: <27e6356a0801120656n107a7f90s9f9496f9eb46dfaf@mail.gmail.com> <478C73A2.60507@poptix.net> Message-ID: <31798.1200426612@skuld.wookimus.net> Mike Miller wrote: > We got that to work. I don't know if this is a "pseudo software RAID > controller" and I don't need to "cheap out" because it isn't my money! > So should I be buying a hardware RAID controller? How much will that > cost me? What is the benefit of the hardware RAID over softRAID? softRAID is a viable solution, so don't discount it until you've seen how your system performs with it. If you have a sufficiently quick machine with good I/O and plenty of RAM, your overhead for softRAID might not even be noticed. What I suggest is to watch the performance of your server resources for a while. If you find that your CPU gets pegged while pushing data to disk (writes), you might want to upgrade to hardware raid. (Cacti and Munin make some nice graphs for these things.) My favorite SATA RAID controllers are the 3Ware Escalades. I would stay away from Promise controllers if at all possible. I don't know how the Adaptec controllers perform, but in all cases you're going to pay an exceptional chunk of change to get hardware RAID. You'll easily spend between $350-800 depending upon the number of drives you wish to support. If this is a high-availability server, you may want to invest in the "battery" module for the card as well, which keeps your write transactions alive in the event of a power failure. (You might not need this if your UPS gives sufficient warning to the system to tell it to shut down cleanly.) That's between $50-200 depending upon the vendor of the RAID card. Good luck! Chad From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Tue Jan 15 14:35:57 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:35:57 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree In-Reply-To: <977989.71102.qm@web53805.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <977989.71102.qm@web53805.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2008, Wayne Johnson wrote: > Mike Miller wrote: > >> How does it work for you? What command do you use? >> Sounds great. > > First use yum or apt-get to install the package inotify-tools. [snip] I was wondering what the actual command was to get a report of the modification time of the newest file in a directory tree. I assume that it is super fast compared with the "find" methods we had been working on. Mike From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Tue Jan 15 15:01:37 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:01:37 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] OT: External RAID 5 SATA enclosures In-Reply-To: <31798.1200426612@skuld.wookimus.net> References: <27e6356a0801120656n107a7f90s9f9496f9eb46dfaf@mail.gmail.com> <478C73A2.60507@poptix.net> <31798.1200426612@skuld.wookimus.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2008, Chad Walstrom wrote: > softRAID is a viable solution, so don't discount it until you've seen > how your system performs with it. If you have a sufficiently quick > machine with good I/O and plenty of RAM, your overhead for softRAID > might not even be noticed. What I suggest is to watch the performance > of your server resources for a while. If you find that your CPU gets > pegged while pushing data to disk (writes), you might want to upgrade to > hardware raid. (Cacti and Munin make some nice graphs for these > things.) We have a quadcore CPU and we aren't doing a lot of disk-intensive work yet, so the effect of the software RAID is not noticeable. > My favorite SATA RAID controllers are the 3Ware Escalades. I would stay > away from Promise controllers if at all possible. I don't know how the > Adaptec controllers perform, but in all cases you're going to pay an > exceptional chunk of change to get hardware RAID. You'll easily spend > between $350-800 depending upon the number of drives you wish to > support. The two 500 GB disks we are using cost only $250 together. It sounds like hardware RAID controllers are very overpriced. Seriously, with those prices, if the software RAID was impacting on performance, I might go for a faster CPU or dual CPU system instead of buying a RAID controller. > If this is a high-availability server, you may want to invest in the > "battery" module for the card as well, which keeps your write > transactions alive in the event of a power failure. (You might not need > this if your UPS gives sufficient warning to the system to tell it to > shut down cleanly.) That's between $50-200 depending upon the vendor of > the RAID card. That is a good reminder. I want to put a UPS on this system and I haven't done so yet. Mike From leif.t.johnson at gmail.com Tue Jan 15 15:29:55 2008 From: leif.t.johnson at gmail.com (Leif Johnson) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:29:55 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Finding the date of the newest file in a directory tree In-Reply-To: References: <977989.71102.qm@web53805.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > I was wondering what the actual command was to get a report of the > modification time of the newest file in a directory tree. > > I assume that it is super fast compared with the "find" methods we had > been working on. inotify only receives current events. To find the newest file in an existing tree you would need to use find (or similar). With inotify you can watch a tree for changes. I haven't used the inotify-tools package so I have no idea what command you would need to use. If you are monitoring a file system, inotify will be worlds faster than a find approach. leif From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Tue Jan 15 16:08:19 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:08:19 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] don't order from Aztekcomputers Message-ID: Below is what I had to say to Aztekcomputers. They had the lowest price for an item that seemed hard to find and they claimed to have 6 in stock. Maybe they were just phishing for my data: Please cancel my account and remove any information about me from your system. I am doing this because you got my information under false pretenses. You claimed to have six monitors in stock of a certain brand at a certain price. I ordered two of them and was made to wait for three weeks while you played around pretending to try to get them for me. You told me you would get back to me in 24 hours after my first call, but you didn't do that. I called a week later only to be told that you would never get these monitors for me. Therefore, I will never order another thing from Aztekcomputers nor will I recommend Aztekcomputers to anyone else. I do not want you to have my personal information. Remove it from your system or I will have our Attorney General on your case. Michael B. Miller From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Tue Jan 15 16:20:11 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:20:11 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] don't order from Aztekcomputers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I will give them credit for two things: They answer the phone and they reply to email messages. --Mike Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:11:12 -0600 From: Zahid Kinnare [deleted]@aztekcomputers.com To: Mike Miller Subject: Re: Order Status Updated Dear Mr. Miller, We have complied with your request and deleted you customer profile from our system. I do want to take this opportunity to apologize for the delayed response on our part regarding your order and hope that you will find the same monitor somewhere else. Regards, Zahid Kinnare Operations Manager. 469-574-0239 ps: this email will be achieved for legal reasons On Jan 15, 2008 4:04 PM, Mike Miller < mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu> wrote: Please cancel my account and remove any information about me from your system. I am doing this because you got my information under false pretenses. You claimed to have six monitors in stock of s certain brand at a certain price. ?I ordered two of them and was made to wait for three weeks while you played around pretending to try to get them for me. ?You told me you would get back to me in 24 hours after my first call, but you didn't do that. ?I called a week later only to be told that you would never get these monitors for me. Therefore, I will never order another thing from Aztekcomputers nor will I recommend Aztekcomputers to anyone else. ?I do not want you to have my personal information. ?Remove it from your system or I will have our Attorney General on your case. Michael B. Miller -- Zahid Kinnare Aztek Computers / Versalock 1516 S. I 35E Suite 203 Carrollton, TX 75006 469-574-0239 Direct 469-442-0606 Fax http://aztekcomputers.com From andyzib at gmail.com Tue Jan 15 16:32:54 2008 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:32:54 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: External RAID 5 SATA enclosures In-Reply-To: <31798.1200426612@skuld.wookimus.net> References: <27e6356a0801120656n107a7f90s9f9496f9eb46dfaf@mail.gmail.com> <478C73A2.60507@poptix.net> <31798.1200426612@skuld.wookimus.net> Message-ID: My understanding is that the major drawback with the "FakeRAID" controllers integrated onto motherboards is that you have no method of moving your disks from one computer to another unless you're moving to another motherboard that has the same integrated controller. With the Linux software RAID, you are able to move the disks to another computer with different hardware. For some, this could be the deciding factor between using the integrated RAID controller or Linux software RAID. The other drawback (again from my understanding) is that the FakeRAID type controllers are offloading most of the RAID tasks to the system CPU, just as software RAID would. Real RAID controllers do most of this on the controller without going to the CPU. I've run a handful of systems using Linux software RAID and I haven't noticed any performance hits. On a newer system (Intel Core Duo 2 something or other...) I've also run Windows Software RAID on the same hardware. Again I didn't notice any performance hit. -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com From dniesen at gmail.com Tue Jan 15 16:35:14 2008 From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:35:14 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] don't order from Aztekcomputers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47f4d5e70801151435iecaaf2do2282dc3d38715330@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 15, 2008 4:20 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > I will give them credit for two things: They answer the phone and they > reply to email messages. --Mike > > > Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:11:12 -0600 > From: Zahid Kinnare [deleted]@aztekcomputers.com > To: Mike Miller > Subject: Re: Order Status Updated > > Dear Mr. Miller, > We have complied with your request and deleted you customer profile > from our system. I do want to take this opportunity to apologize for > the delayed response on our part regarding your order and hope that > you will find the same monitor somewhere else. > > Regards, > > Zahid Kinnare > Operations Manager. > 469-574-0239 > > ps: this email will be achieved for legal reasons > > On Jan 15, 2008 4:04 PM, Mike Miller < mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu> > wrote: > > Please cancel my account and remove any information about > me from your > system. > > I am doing this because you got my information under > false pretenses. > You claimed to have six monitors in stock of s certain > brand at a certain > price. I ordered two of them and was made to wait for > three weeks while > you played around pretending to try to get them for me. > You told me you > would get back to me in 24 hours after my first call, but > you didn't do > that. I called a week later only to be told that you > would never get > these monitors for me. > > Therefore, I will never order another thing from > Aztekcomputers nor will I > recommend Aztekcomputers to anyone else. I do not want > you to have my > personal information. Remove it from your system or I > will have our > Attorney General on your case. > > Michael B. Miller > > > > > -- > Zahid Kinnare > Aztek Computers / Versalock > 1516 S. I 35E Suite 203 > Carrollton, TX 75006 > 469-574-0239 Direct > 469-442-0606 Fax > http://aztekcomputers.com > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > I tend to get nervous when companies "achieve" emails for legal purposes... -- Donovan Niesen From aaronmill1 at gmail.com Tue Jan 15 16:44:11 2008 From: aaronmill1 at gmail.com (Aaron Miller) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:44:11 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] don't order from Aztekcomputers In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70801151435iecaaf2do2282dc3d38715330@mail.gmail.com> References: <47f4d5e70801151435iecaaf2do2282dc3d38715330@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <478D373B.2020605@gmail.com> With a name like "Zahid" I'm not too surprised by the type ;) Donovan wrote: > On Jan 15, 2008 4:20 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > >> I will give them credit for two things: They answer the phone and they >> reply to email messages. --Mike >> >> >> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:11:12 -0600 >> From: Zahid Kinnare [deleted]@aztekcomputers.com >> To: Mike Miller >> Subject: Re: Order Status Updated >> >> Dear Mr. Miller, >> We have complied with your request and deleted you customer profile >> from our system. I do want to take this opportunity to apologize for >> the delayed response on our part regarding your order and hope that >> you will find the same monitor somewhere else. >> >> Regards, >> >> Zahid Kinnare >> Operations Manager. >> 469-574-0239 >> >> ps: this email will be achieved for legal reasons >> >> On Jan 15, 2008 4:04 PM, Mike Miller < mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu> >> wrote: >> >> Please cancel my account and remove any information about >> me from your >> system. >> >> I am doing this because you got my information under >> false pretenses. >> You claimed to have six monitors in stock of s certain >> brand at a certain >> price. I ordered two of them and was made to wait for >> three weeks while >> you played around pretending to try to get them for me. >> You told me you >> would get back to me in 24 hours after my first call, but >> you didn't do >> that. I called a week later only to be told that you >> would never get >> these monitors for me. >> >> Therefore, I will never order another thing from >> Aztekcomputers nor will I >> recommend Aztekcomputers to anyone else. I do not want >> you to have my >> personal information. Remove it from your system or I >> will have our >> Attorney General on your case. >> >> Michael B. Miller >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Zahid Kinnare >> Aztek Computers / Versalock >> 1516 S. I 35E Suite 203 >> Carrollton, TX 75006 >> 469-574-0239 Direct >> 469-442-0606 Fax >> http://aztekcomputers.com >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > > I tend to get nervous when companies "achieve" emails for legal purposes... > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080115/9aba1d78/attachment-0001.htm From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Tue Jan 15 16:45:23 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:45:23 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] OT: External RAID 5 SATA enclosures In-Reply-To: <478CE02B.9048.009E.0@health.state.mn.us> References: <27e6356a0801120656n107a7f90s9f9496f9eb46dfaf@mail.gmail.com> <478C73A2.60507@poptix.net> <31798.1200426612@skuld.wookimus.net> <478CE02B.9048.009E.0@health.state.mn.us> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2008, Troy.A Johnson wrote: >> The two 500 GB disks we are using cost only $250 together. It sounds >> like hardware RAID controllers are very overpriced. Seriously, with >> those prices, if the software RAID was impacting on performance, I >> might go for a faster CPU or dual CPU system instead of buying a RAID >> controller. > > The more expensive hardware RAID solutions (like many of the 3ware > products) usually give you more than enough value for your money. On the > other hand, if you don't need the features they offer (like dedicated > I/O processing, hotswap, and easy config/monitoring tools) then you > probably don't need an expensive hardware RAID solution. *shrug* OK, so I'd be getting a lot more than a RAID 1 controller. We got on this topic because someone suggested that use of software RAID might be a really bad idea, so I wanted to check on that because I just had one set up. Right now I think that software RAID is a really good idea. Mike From tclug at freakzilla.com Tue Jan 15 16:47:01 2008 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:47:01 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] don't order from Aztekcomputers In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70801151435iecaaf2do2282dc3d38715330@mail.gmail.com> References: <47f4d5e70801151435iecaaf2do2282dc3d38715330@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Jan 15, 2008, at 16:35, Donovan wrote: > I tend to get nervous when companies "achieve" emails for legal > purposes... I tend to get nervous when people quote an entire (and long) Email only to type in one line! -Yaron -- -Yaron -- From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Tue Jan 15 16:32:45 2008 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:32:45 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: External RAID 5 SATA enclosures In-Reply-To: References: <27e6356a0801120656n107a7f90s9f9496f9eb46dfaf@mail.gmail.com> <478C73A2.60507@poptix.net> <31798.1200426612@skuld.wookimus.net> Message-ID: <478CE02B.9048.009E.0@health.state.mn.us> >>> On 1/15/2008 at 3:01 PM, in message , Mike Miller wrote: > On Tue, 15 Jan 2008, Chad Walstrom wrote: >> My favorite SATA RAID controllers are the 3Ware Escalades. I would stay >> away from Promise controllers if at all possible. I don't know how the >> Adaptec controllers perform, but in all cases you're going to pay an >> exceptional chunk of change to get hardware RAID. You'll easily spend >> between $350-800 depending upon the number of drives you wish to >> support. > > The two 500 GB disks we are using cost only $250 together. It sounds like > hardware RAID controllers are very overpriced. Seriously, with those > prices, if the software RAID was impacting on performance, I might go for > a faster CPU or dual CPU system instead of buying a RAID controller. The more expensive hardware RAID solutions (like many of the 3ware products) usually give you more than enough value for your money. On the other hand, if you don't need the features they offer (like dedicated I/O processing, hotswap, and easy config/monitoring tools) then you probably don't need an expensive hardware RAID solution. *shrug* From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Tue Jan 15 16:46:53 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:46:53 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] don't order from Aztekcomputers In-Reply-To: <478D373B.2020605@gmail.com> References: <47f4d5e70801151435iecaaf2do2282dc3d38715330@mail.gmail.com> <478D373B.2020605@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2008, Aaron Miller wrote: > With a name like "Zahid" I'm not too surprised by the type ;) Isn't "type" a mispelling? Mike From florin at iucha.net Tue Jan 15 16:59:26 2008 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:59:26 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] don't order from Aztekcomputers In-Reply-To: <478D373B.2020605@gmail.com> References: <47f4d5e70801151435iecaaf2do2282dc3d38715330@mail.gmail.com> <478D373B.2020605@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080115225925.GZ27161@iris.iucha.org> On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 04:44:11PM -0600, Aaron Miller wrote: > With a name like "Zahid" I'm not too surprised by the type ;) Would you care to share your surprise with the rest of us? florin -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080115/8a29f471/attachment.pgp From tclug at freakzilla.com Tue Jan 15 17:07:01 2008 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 17:07:01 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] don't order from Aztekcomputers In-Reply-To: <20080115225925.GZ27161@iris.iucha.org> References: <47f4d5e70801151435iecaaf2do2282dc3d38715330@mail.gmail.com> <478D373B.2020605@gmail.com> <20080115225925.GZ27161@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: <293CA91E-144B-4C76-91E3-EF90664C4AA3@freakzilla.com> On Jan 15, 2008, at 16:59, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 04:44:11PM -0600, Aaron Miller wrote: >> With a name like "Zahid" I'm not too surprised by the type ;) > > Would you care to share your surprise with the rest of us? He just said he's NOT surprised. But yes, that seemed somewhat off to me, too. -Yaron -- From canito at dalan.us Tue Jan 15 17:10:07 2008 From: canito at dalan.us (David Alanis) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 17:10:07 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] don't order from Aztekcomputers In-Reply-To: <478D373B.2020605@gmail.com> References: <47f4d5e70801151435iecaaf2do2282dc3d38715330@mail.gmail.com> <478D373B.2020605@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080115171007.frqzl21puskcw00o@mail.dalan.us> Quoting Aaron Miller : > With a name like "Zahid" I'm not too surprised by the type ;) Your comment makes me think you might happen to be one of those "type" as well! ~David ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From jgammons at gmail.com Tue Jan 15 17:52:35 2008 From: jgammons at gmail.com (John Gammons) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 17:52:35 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] [scalug] Zonbu laptops In-Reply-To: <200801142254.45204.jack@jacku.com> References: <101e49ea0801131621w5b640f55r117fdb8b3e5ca616@mail.gmail.com> <2c6699da0801140934n375c9db3y38265bf78788b107@mail.gmail.com> <200801142254.45204.jack@jacku.com> Message-ID: <13f7f6810801151552n6cff0c6dkd80416001e265ed8@mail.gmail.com> Here is another option for a cheap laptop. I don't believe it fits your 12" screen requirement, but perhaps someone else is interested in it. I have been contemplating purchasing one. Perfect for the kids... and of course I would like to get my hands on one. It is also a cheap way to help out kids in some of the "underdeveloped" regions of the world. http://www.laptopgiving.org/en/explore.php John On Jan 14, 2008 10:54 PM, Jack Ungerleider wrote: > On Monday 14 January 2008 11:58 am, Mike Miller wrote: > > On Mon, 14 Jan 2008, Brian Wall wrote: > > > On Jan 14, 2008 10:43 AM, J Cruit wrote: > > >> I did buy a Zonbu desktop a month or so ago, its small cute and > quiet. > > >> But I can only say that I like the hardware as I wiped the system and > > >> am using it as my Myth Frontend box. Which it seems to be capable > > >> enough of, although sometimes it takes a few seconds to switch menus. > > > > > > Before you wiped it, did you happen to see which distro was installed > on > > > it? > > > > I was trying to figure out what the Zonbu scheme was about, but their > web > > pages weren't very well organized. It looks like I was getting my best > > information from the news articles linked from the Zonbu "reviews" page: > > > > http://www.zonbu.com/why_zonbu/reviews.htm > > > > According to the NY Times article, the distro is Gentoo: > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/16/technology/16cheap.html > > > > The Zonbu PC also uses a Gentoo version of the Linux operating > system > > and will come with a range of software applications like the Mozilla > > Firefox browser, Skype voice-over-Internet service, OpenOffice > software > > suite and many games. > > > > I don't know that it's always Gentoo, but I would guess that makes it > > easier for Zonbu folks to maintain the boxes. > > > > Mike > > For those looking for more info on Zonbu there is a review of the Zonbu PC > in > the February 2008 issue of Linux Journal. > > -- > Jack Ungerleider > jack at jacku.com > http://www.jacku.com > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080115/141e8d38/attachment.htm From andyzib at gmail.com Tue Jan 15 17:59:11 2008 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 17:59:11 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] lost virtual consoles In-Reply-To: <20080115104612.A3027@pchelka.space.umn.edu> References: <200801150023.20467.TeeAhr1@gmail.com> <20080115104612.A3027@pchelka.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: Are you dealing with a LCD monitor? If so, it may be helpful to kick your console into framebuffer mode running at the native resolution for your monitor. See http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Framebuffer-HOWTO-5.html I had a KVM monitor that would display nothing and go to sleep when I switched over to my Linux servers until I set the framebuffer to the monitor's native resolution. Was rather annoying as the KVM would also get stuck on that channel and refused to switch to another one... :) -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com From hewhocutsdown at gmail.com Tue Jan 15 17:57:20 2008 From: hewhocutsdown at gmail.com (Jordan Peacock) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 17:57:20 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Speaking of RAID... RAID Recovery Recommendations? Message-ID: Specially, for a 1TB MyBook drive, ~9 months old, 1 of the two drives in a RAID 0 array is unresponsive. What are the worst/best case scenarios you've encountered, and what could I expect if the owner wants to look into attempted data recovery? -- Jordan Peacock hewhocutsdown at gmail.com hewhocutsdown.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080115/b3c78c01/attachment-0001.htm From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Tue Jan 15 18:53:09 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 18:53:09 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] [scalug] Zonbu laptops In-Reply-To: <13f7f6810801151552n6cff0c6dkd80416001e265ed8@mail.gmail.com> References: <101e49ea0801131621w5b640f55r117fdb8b3e5ca616@mail.gmail.com> <2c6699da0801140934n375c9db3y38265bf78788b107@mail.gmail.com> <200801142254.45204.jack@jacku.com> <13f7f6810801151552n6cff0c6dkd80416001e265ed8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2008, John Gammons wrote: > Here is another option for a cheap laptop. I don't believe it fits your > 12" screen requirement, but perhaps someone else is interested in it. > I have been contemplating purchasing one. Perfect for the kids... and > of course I would like to get my hands on one. It is also a cheap way > to help out kids in some of the "underdeveloped" regions of the world. > > http://www.laptopgiving.org/en/explore.php They stopped selling them on 12/31. I don't know when they'll start up again, but I'm sure they will. I also don't know what the price will be. Another good thing about those XO laptops is that they have very strong WiFi built in. Apparently much stronger than ordinary laptops (the secret is in the "ears," I'm told). Mike From erikerik at gmail.com Tue Jan 15 19:59:37 2008 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 19:59:37 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Speaking of RAID... RAID Recovery Recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jan 15, 2008 5:57 PM, Jordan Peacock wrote: > Specially, for a 1TB MyBook drive, ~9 months old, 1 of the two drives in a > RAID 0 array is unresponsive. What are the worst/best case scenarios you've > encountered, and what could I expect if the owner wants to look into > attempted data recovery? In my (very limited) experience with RAID0, there is no "best case scenario". As you probably know, in a RAID0 array, write operations are striped between the two drives. This means that for the vast majority of files on the array, only a portion of the file lives on the good drive. Depending on how the drive has failed, there's a chance you may be able to swap out the controller card with a known good controller with the *exact* same hardware spin/firmware revision, but that's somewhat of a crapshoot. The other option is to pay a company like Ontrack to recover the data, but that can get quite expensive - often into the thousands of dollars. Not to get preachy, but this is the main reason to avoid RAID0 like the plague. Yes, there are some instances where RAID0 is called for due to performance needs, but that's surely not the case with an external drive. If you want to use RAID0, it's *imperative* that you use some sort of offline backup to CYA for instances like this. Good luck! -Erik From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Tue Jan 15 20:25:33 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:25:33 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Speaking of RAID... RAID Recovery Recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2008, Erik Anderson wrote: > Not to get preachy, but this is the main reason to avoid RAID0 like the > plague. Yes, there are some instances where RAID0 is called for due to > performance needs, but that's surely not the case with an external > drive. If you want to use RAID0, it's *imperative* that you use some > sort of offline backup to CYA for instances like this. If I understand correctly, if the probability of failure of one drive in some time interval is 'p' and the drives fail independently, then with RAID0, the probability of catastrophic loss is roughly 2p [really 2p(1-p)+p?, but the extra -p? is small enough that it can be ignored] because if either drive fails, you lose your data, but with RAID1, the probability of catastrophic loss is p? because both drives have to fail. So if the probability of failure this week is 1/1000, then with RAID0 you will be about 2,000 times as likely to lose all of your data as with RAID1. It's really worse than that though because with RAID0, loss of one drive means loss of data, but with RAID1, you have a chance to replace the first failed drive before the second one goes, so they have to fail in fairly rapid succession. You also have a chance to back up data through some other method while waiting to replace the first failed drive. Mike From tonyyarusso at gmail.com Tue Jan 15 22:40:48 2008 From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:40:48 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] lost virtual consoles In-Reply-To: References: <200801150023.20467.TeeAhr1@gmail.com> <20080115104612.A3027@pchelka.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <254fef0f0801152040i137bcd8cj8f370a0daafea107@mail.gmail.com> Are you sure installing KDE4 was what did it? You might just be encountering https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/initramfs-tools/+bug/129910 and friends. -- Tony Yarusso http://tonyyarusso.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080115/e4545f51/attachment.htm From emon at lavabit.com Wed Jan 16 00:29:40 2008 From: emon at lavabit.com (Emon) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 12:29:40 +0600 Subject: [tclug-list] AverMedia TV card problem in openSuSE10.3 Message-ID: <478DA454.7050003@lavabit.com> Hi everyone I have just installed a "AVer TV Super 007" card from AverMedia but when I try to Scan for channels using KDETV it can't find any channel. In YaST it shows up under "Hardware" -> "TV Card" as "SAA7133/SAA7135 Video Broadcast Decoder" but when I try to scan channels from there it says ********************* device has no tuner, exiting Number of TV Stations Found: 0 ********************* So someone at my local lug suggested to do this; he says he found the solution at some suse forum but can't remember which one :-( ************************** "In suse you have to enter the needed values with Yast: hardware->TV card -> Edit -> Expert settings set Module parameters card 57 gbuffers 2 tuner 54" ************************** Now I am getting video, but no audio!! Any suggestions?? Thanks in advance Emon From josh at tcbug.org Wed Jan 16 07:23:54 2008 From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:23:54 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: External RAID 5 SATA enclosures In-Reply-To: References: <27e6356a0801120656n107a7f90s9f9496f9eb46dfaf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200801160724.05763.josh@tcbug.org> On Monday 14 January 2008 12:11:50 am Mike Miller wrote: > On Sun, 13 Jan 2008, Andrew Zbikowski wrote: > > Justin just underscored that RAID is not a replacement for backups. > > Some kinds of RAID are a kind of backup. If one drive is mirroring > another, it is a backup copy in case the first drive fails. > > That said, of course you'd be completely crazy not to have daily tape > backups transported by Brinks to four distant locations in the US and > stored in vaults with guard dogs and armed security staff. Or maybe just > copies at home and office would work. > > Mike > RAID is no substitute for backups. In 12 years of using RAID I've lost arrays that required multiple drive failures twice. Once was a trio of PATA drives in a mirror with a hot spare, drive 0 failed, and while the hot spare was syncing drive 1 failed. The other incident was a RAID 5 array of SCSI drives with a hot spare.....a bad PSU left scorch marks on all 4 drives. In any case, I realized the importance of backups a long time ago, and while I can't say I've never lost data I can say it's been a couple decades since I lost data I cared about. -- Thanks, Josh Paetzel PGP: 8A48 EF36 5E9F 4EDA 5A8C 11B4 26F9 01F1 27AF AECB -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080116/55236aef/attachment.pgp From kc0iog at gmail.com Wed Jan 16 09:39:22 2008 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:39:22 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] [scalug] Zonbu laptops In-Reply-To: References: <101e49ea0801131621w5b640f55r117fdb8b3e5ca616@mail.gmail.com> <2c6699da0801140934n375c9db3y38265bf78788b107@mail.gmail.com> <200801142254.45204.jack@jacku.com> <13f7f6810801151552n6cff0c6dkd80416001e265ed8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c6699da0801160739u7182ee86h5a6f93b4dfd9dc8d@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 15, 2008 6:53 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > > Another good thing about those XO laptops is that they have very strong > WiFi built in. Apparently much stronger than ordinary laptops (the secret > is in the "ears," I'm told). Laptops sold in the US are limited in their antenna design by the FCC. So many mW of radiated power at x meters and so on. I wonder if the XO team fudged their wifi antennas, since these were not originally designed for sale in the US.. :-) -Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080116/439c992e/attachment.htm From dniesen at gmail.com Wed Jan 16 10:14:57 2008 From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:14:57 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Comcast as a business phone vendor? Message-ID: <47f4d5e70801160814n137075a7sbd54d9908febc753@mail.gmail.com> I have a client moving offices and they're shopping phone vendors. The building they're moving to is wired for cable so they've been getting quotes from Comcast. I personally cringe at the thought of using Comcast as a serious phone provider but figured I would see if anybody in TCLUG land has had experience with them. The few things I gleaned from the sales person were interesting: * The phone service is fed from their "backbone" so it doesn't share the same connection that the cable modem uses (supposedly no QoS issues this way) * Users will have to dial 9 to get out and can dial each others' phones using the last 4-digits of the phone number assigned so it sounds like they're doing some PBXy type things * There is a limit of 8 phone lines per location currently -- Donovan Niesen From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Jan 16 11:29:42 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:29:42 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] OT: External RAID 5 SATA enclosures In-Reply-To: <200801160724.05763.josh@tcbug.org> References: <27e6356a0801120656n107a7f90s9f9496f9eb46dfaf@mail.gmail.com> <200801160724.05763.josh@tcbug.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Josh Paetzel wrote: > RAID is no substitute for backups. In 12 years of using RAID I've lost > arrays that required multiple drive failures twice. Once was a trio of > PATA drives in a mirror with a hot spare, drive 0 failed, and while the > hot spare was syncing drive 1 failed. The other incident was a RAID 5 > array of SCSI drives with a hot spare.....a bad PSU left scorch marks on > all 4 drives. > > In any case, I realized the importance of backups a long time ago, and > while I can't say I've never lost data I can say it's been a couple > decades since I lost data I cared about. These are examples of non-independence of failures. In my earlier message I said that RAID1 fails catastrophically with probability p? under independence. Under complete dependence it fails with probability p (which is a lot worse - just as bad as using only one drive). I have to hope that RAID1 doesn't show complete dependence in practice because it would be useless if it did. The real probability of catastrophic failure must be somewhere in between p and p?. Mike From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Jan 16 11:50:12 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:50:12 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] [scalug] Zonbu laptops In-Reply-To: <2c6699da0801160739u7182ee86h5a6f93b4dfd9dc8d@mail.gmail.com> References: <101e49ea0801131621w5b640f55r117fdb8b3e5ca616@mail.gmail.com> <2c6699da0801140934n375c9db3y38265bf78788b107@mail.gmail.com> <200801142254.45204.jack@jacku.com> <13f7f6810801151552n6cff0c6dkd80416001e265ed8@mail.gmail.com> <2c6699da0801160739u7182ee86h5a6f93b4dfd9dc8d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Brian Wall wrote: > On Jan 15, 2008 6:53 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > >> Another good thing about those XO laptops is that they have very strong >> WiFi built in. Apparently much stronger than ordinary laptops (the >> secret is in the "ears," I'm told). > > Laptops sold in the US are limited in their antenna design by the FCC. > So many mW of radiated power at x meters and so on. I wonder if the XO > team fudged their wifi antennas, since these were not originally > designed for sale in the US.. :-) I doubt the FCC would allow that. I would think that the laptops sold in the US would have to meet FCC requirements even if they were designed for other countries -- so they'd have to partially disable laptops for US sales. On the other hand, maybe they are within US FCC limits and most competitors' laptops just aren't close to pushing up against the FCC limit. The XO makers say that the antennae are the key -- most laptops don't have antennae. Mike From kc0iog at gmail.com Wed Jan 16 11:57:37 2008 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:57:37 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] [scalug] Zonbu laptops In-Reply-To: References: <101e49ea0801131621w5b640f55r117fdb8b3e5ca616@mail.gmail.com> <2c6699da0801140934n375c9db3y38265bf78788b107@mail.gmail.com> <200801142254.45204.jack@jacku.com> <13f7f6810801151552n6cff0c6dkd80416001e265ed8@mail.gmail.com> <2c6699da0801160739u7182ee86h5a6f93b4dfd9dc8d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c6699da0801160957l146283f7o2ca9351c661adeef@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 16, 2008 11:50 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > the US would have to meet FCC requirements even if they were designed for > other countries -- so they'd have to partially disable laptops for US > sales. And they might, guess I don't know. If I was sending a laptop to Kenya with the intent of making it talk to others well, I'd crank up the power to whatever is still safe, far exceeding what the FCC would allow. > On the other hand, maybe they are within US FCC limits and most > competitors' laptops just aren't close to pushing up against the FCC > limit. Possible. > The XO makers say that the antennae are the key -- most laptops > don't have antennae. Yes they do. It's just wrapped around the mobo inside of the chassis instead of sticking out the top. Since FCC rules talk about effective radiated power at a distance, instead of actual output power, you could break the law with either design if you were so inclined. Problem with the former is that it could possibly microwave your hand if it were boosted that high. Then again, maybe that's why they don't. I'd definitely let a laptop manufacturer put a pair of dorky "ears" on my laptop if it boosted the wifi strength that significantly. -Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080116/0c9e15e9/attachment.htm From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Jan 16 12:47:58 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 12:47:58 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] [scalug] Zonbu laptops In-Reply-To: <2c6699da0801160957l146283f7o2ca9351c661adeef@mail.gmail.com> References: <101e49ea0801131621w5b640f55r117fdb8b3e5ca616@mail.gmail.com> <2c6699da0801140934n375c9db3y38265bf78788b107@mail.gmail.com> <200801142254.45204.jack@jacku.com> <13f7f6810801151552n6cff0c6dkd80416001e265ed8@mail.gmail.com> <2c6699da0801160739u7182ee86h5a6f93b4dfd9dc8d@mail.gmail.com> <2c6699da0801160957l146283f7o2ca9351c661adeef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Brian Wall wrote: > Mike Miller wrote: > >> The XO makers say that the antennae are the key -- most laptops don't >> have antennae. > > Yes they do. It's just wrapped around the mobo inside of the chassis > instead of sticking out the top. Right. I misspoke and should have said "external antennae." > Since FCC rules talk about effective radiated power at a distance, > instead of actual output power, you could break the law with either > design if you were so inclined. Problem with the former is that it > could possibly microwave your hand if it were boosted that high. Then > again, maybe that's why they don't. That's an interesting possibility. I want to get an XO one of these days and test it out against my Centrino. > I'd definitely let a laptop manufacturer put a pair of dorky "ears" on > my laptop if it boosted the wifi strength that significantly. Same here. Pretty soon people would think you are cool for having dorky ears. Mike From cncole at earthlink.net Wed Jan 16 12:49:30 2008 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 12:49:30 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] [scalug] Zonbu laptops In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Mike Miller > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 11:50 AM > To: Brian Wall > Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] [scalug] Zonbu laptops > > > On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Brian Wall wrote: > > > On Jan 15, 2008 6:53 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > > > >> Another good thing about those XO laptops is that they have > very strong > >> WiFi built in. Apparently much stronger than ordinary laptops (the > >> secret is in the "ears," I'm told). > > > > Laptops sold in the US are limited in their antenna design by the FCC. > > So many mW of radiated power at x meters and so on. I wonder if the XO > > team fudged their wifi antennas, since these were not originally > > designed for sale in the US.. :-) "mW of radiated power" is not a limit on antenna design as such, it's a limit on transmitted power. Making the receiver's antenna separate and "hotter" is possible as one way to have an equivalent of more transmitter power. Most laptops have poor built-in antennas, so having good antennas and adjustable transmitter power may be better, since that takes care of some directionality issues that different antennas introduce. Something like a BIOS setting for time zone and country could be used to set the power. Most USA WiFi units don't seem to use the maximum allowed power. Some here have power settings, and some laptops recommend using the lower setting which happens to be the default as a way to save battery power. There is at least a 20:1 range in available transmitter power in different products here, according to a vendor's data table. > I doubt the FCC would allow that. I would think that the laptops sold in > the US would have to meet FCC requirements even if they were designed for > other countries -- so they'd have to partially disable laptops for US > sales. On the other hand, maybe they are within US FCC limits and most > competitors' laptops just aren't close to pushing up against the FCC > limit. The XO makers say that the antennae are the key -- most laptops > don't have antennae. Most USA units aren't close to the limits. I'd guess the average is about 1/10th max from product data I've seen. I've seen pretty wide variation in range from the 3 or 4 models of PCMCIA cards I've had, and similarly wide variation in PCI cards using their own antennas. I get such great range performance from the 3 types of internal mini-PCI cards in my Dell laptops (the Dell built-in antennas seem to be good) that I now generally prefer these to other WiFi stuff I've collected. BTW, I have 3 pretty hot Orinoco Gold a,b,g PCMCIA cards plus one PCI version of the same I want to sell and just haven't posted a classified yet. Linux drivers exist for these and may be on the driver CDs I have. The PCMCIA cards are new and unused OEM units, and the PCI is almost new. Probably will also sell my two Dell b cards (also Orinoco Gold) that have the external antenna connectors. Those are quite good on their internal antennas and great with various types of external antennas. Chuck From ai9nl at arrl.net Wed Jan 16 14:43:04 2008 From: ai9nl at arrl.net (Harv Nelson) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:43:04 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] air cards?? Message-ID: <6a470a5f0801161243g4e1ff8acxfd172101e5db1020@mail.gmail.com> I'm out in nevada/arizona camping on the dessert ... I'm sick of chasing back to town to go to the library to do email. do any of you have experience with an air card from either ATT, or Sprint?, or whatever company? so far I'm finding that many of the USB units they want to sell me won't work with our system only bill's stuff or MAC. any pointers, suggestions or tips are welcome. thanks, HARV, AI9NL washburn, wi currently in lasvegas,nv From tclug at natecarlson.com Wed Jan 16 14:56:24 2008 From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:56:24 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] air cards?? In-Reply-To: <6a470a5f0801161243g4e1ff8acxfd172101e5db1020@mail.gmail.com> References: <6a470a5f0801161243g4e1ff8acxfd172101e5db1020@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Harv Nelson wrote: > I'm out in nevada/arizona camping on the dessert ... I'm sick of chasing > back to town to go to the library to do email. do any of you have > experience with an air card from either ATT, or Sprint?, or whatever > company? so far I'm finding that many of the USB units they want to sell > me won't work with our system only bill's stuff or MAC. any pointers, > suggestions or tips are welcome. I've got a built-in card for AT&T on my Dell, works fine under Linux. The AT&T USBConnect 881 should also work under Linux without a problem. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | | depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From srcfoo at gmail.com Wed Jan 16 15:14:19 2008 From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:14:19 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] air cards?? In-Reply-To: <6a470a5f0801161243g4e1ff8acxfd172101e5db1020@mail.gmail.com> References: <6a470a5f0801161243g4e1ff8acxfd172101e5db1020@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <579c6fd30801161314s5942021ev63bf018fbc988031@mail.gmail.com> On 1/16/08, Harv Nelson wrote: > I'm out in nevada/arizona camping on the dessert ... I'm sick of > chasing back to town to go to the library to do email. do any of you > have experience with an air card from either ATT, or Sprint?, or > whatever company? so far I'm finding that many of the USB units they > want to sell me won't work with our system only bill's stuff or MAC. > any pointers, suggestions or tips are welcome. I've tried cards from Alltel, Sprint and Verizon. The Sprint card (AirCard(R) 595U by Sierra Wireless) was pretty much plug and play on Ubuntu Dapper D. The Alltel card was difficult to get working and actually relied on performing 'echo > /dev/ttyUSB0' prioring to initializing pppd to get it to work. I still haven't tried the Verizon card in Linux, but the download rates were awesome and worked in some very remote locations were I thought I would be in a dead zone. Eric From cncole at earthlink.net Wed Jan 16 15:14:28 2008 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:14:28 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] air cards?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Why not use the entirely free loophole on Sprint 3G and some other phones? If just for camping trips, why pay the extra fees for no additional benefit? I was extremely annoyed that Sprint's service for the card I have would cost $40/mo more for no better data connection and any use of the voice capability my card has would cost $0.40/min even though I'm a subscriber with better and sometimes free voice rates. Chuck > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Nate Carlson > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 2:56 PM > To: Harv Nelson > Cc: Madison Linux Users Group; TCLug > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] air cards?? > > > On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Harv Nelson wrote: > > I'm out in nevada/arizona camping on the dessert ... I'm sick > of chasing > > back to town to go to the library to do email. do any of you have > > experience with an air card from either ATT, or Sprint?, or whatever > > company? so far I'm finding that many of the USB units they > want to sell > > me won't work with our system only bill's stuff or MAC. any pointers, > > suggestions or tips are welcome. > > I've got a built-in card for AT&T on my Dell, works fine under Linux. > > The AT&T USBConnect 881 should also work under Linux without a problem. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > | nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | > | depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.4/1227 - Release Date: > 1/16/2008 1:40 AM > > From tclug at natecarlson.com Wed Jan 16 15:31:39 2008 From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:31:39 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] air cards?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Chuck Cole wrote: > Why not use the entirely free loophole on Sprint 3G and some other > phones? If just for camping trips, why pay the extra fees for no > additional benefit? > > I was extremely annoyed that Sprint's service for the card I have would > cost $40/mo more for no better data connection and any use of the voice > capability my card has would cost $0.40/min even though I'm a subscriber > with better and sometimes free voice rates. If you use your wireless card on a regular basis, having it separate from your phone can be very, very handy. I'd say for the regular camping trip the tethered route should be fine, but for my case (where you use it to support servers, etc), having it separated is much more convenient, especially since it's integrated into my laptop. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | | depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From ai9nl at arrl.net Wed Jan 16 15:38:12 2008 From: ai9nl at arrl.net (Harv Nelson) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:38:12 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] air cards?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6a470a5f0801161338h6c8b19doad9e433c0e6cfe57@mail.gmail.com> Is it possible for me to turn the laptop into a router of sorts , once I return home? I'd like to avoid having two ISP's. On 1/16/08, Nate Carlson wrote: > On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Chuck Cole wrote: > > Why not use the entirely free loophole on Sprint 3G and some other > > phones? If just for camping trips, why pay the extra fees for no > > additional benefit? > > > > I was extremely annoyed that Sprint's service for the card I have would > > cost $40/mo more for no better data connection and any use of the voice > > capability my card has would cost $0.40/min even though I'm a subscriber > > with better and sometimes free voice rates. > > If you use your wireless card on a regular basis, having it separate from > your phone can be very, very handy. I'd say for the regular camping trip > the tethered route should be fine, but for my case (where you use it to > support servers, etc), having it separated is much more convenient, > especially since it's integrated into my laptop. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > | nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | > | depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > From tclug at natecarlson.com Wed Jan 16 15:43:14 2008 From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:43:14 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] air cards?? In-Reply-To: <6a470a5f0801161338h6c8b19doad9e433c0e6cfe57@mail.gmail.com> References: <6a470a5f0801161338h6c8b19doad9e433c0e6cfe57@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Harv Nelson wrote: > Is it possible for me to turn the laptop into a router of sorts , once I > return home? I'd like to avoid having two ISP's. Yes.. but most service agreements prohibit you using the wireless link as your primary internet service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | | depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From erikerik at gmail.com Wed Jan 16 15:46:34 2008 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:46:34 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] air cards?? In-Reply-To: <6a470a5f0801161338h6c8b19doad9e433c0e6cfe57@mail.gmail.com> References: <6a470a5f0801161338h6c8b19doad9e433c0e6cfe57@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Jan 16, 2008 3:38 PM, Harv Nelson wrote: > Is it possible for me to turn the laptop into a router of sorts , once > I return home? I'd like to avoid having two ISP's. It should be. In a pinch, I shared out a Sprint EVDO card using Windows internet sharing, and it worked just fine. I imagine you could NAT it easy enough in linux as well. The latency of these cards is horrible, though. They're surely good to have around for when no other internet connection is available, but *man* they're laggy. Interactive ssh sessions are interesting...you learn to really trust you're typing correctly, as it might be several seconds before it's echoed back :-) -Erik From tclug at natecarlson.com Wed Jan 16 15:58:43 2008 From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:58:43 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] air cards?? In-Reply-To: References: <6a470a5f0801161338h6c8b19doad9e433c0e6cfe57@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Erik Anderson wrote: > The latency of these cards is horrible, though. They're surely good to > have around for when no other internet connection is available, but > *man* they're laggy. Interactive ssh sessions are interesting...you > learn to really trust you're typing correctly, as it might be several > seconds before it's echoed back :-) Actually, with 3G cards (at least on AT&T), latency is quite decent. I average 140ms-200ms - granted not nearly as good as we're used to, but good enough for interactive SSH. ;) Much better than the 900ms+ on GPRS, or the 600+ on EVDO/EDGE. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | | depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From teeahr1 at gmail.com Wed Jan 16 16:00:16 2008 From: teeahr1 at gmail.com (p.daniels) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 16:00:16 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] lost virtual consoles In-Reply-To: <478CCDAA.3060105@gmail.com> References: <200801150023.20467.TeeAhr1@gmail.com> <478CCDAA.3060105@gmail.com> Message-ID: <478E7E70.4020304@gmail.com> Thank you all for the replies. Unfortunately, my internet got knocked out yesterday by construction, so now I'm at the coffee shop on my laptop, away from the machine in question, but I will answer as best I can. Jay asked about my video drivers. I have Intel onboard graphics. Say what you will about the performance (and I do), the drivers have never given me issues. Erik and Jim asked about inittab. Ubuntu no longer uses inittab since they switched to upstart, now that information is contained in the /etc/event.d directory. My gettys are in there, and ps tells me they are running. I have not tried to feed it input, but I suspect it would work. Andrew, I have a CRT monitor, but when I get home I'm going to look into this anyway. Thanks. Tony, that link was very enlightening. Those are pretty much my exact symptoms. I will do some more poking in that direction when I return home and report my findings. Thanks again to all. -pd- From erikerik at gmail.com Wed Jan 16 16:16:39 2008 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 16:16:39 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] air cards?? In-Reply-To: References: <6a470a5f0801161338h6c8b19doad9e433c0e6cfe57@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Jan 16, 2008 3:58 PM, Nate Carlson wrote: > > Actually, with 3G cards (at least on AT&T), latency is quite decent. I > average 140ms-200ms - granted not nearly as good as we're used to, but > good enough for interactive SSH. ;) Much better than the 900ms+ on GPRS, > or the 600+ on EVDO/EDGE. Ahh - that's good to know. My only experience has been with Sprint EVDO and TMO EDGE (through my crackberry). -- Erik Anderson http://andersonfam.org From christophermsmith at gmail.com Wed Jan 16 16:17:53 2008 From: christophermsmith at gmail.com (Chris Smith) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 16:17:53 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] air cards?? In-Reply-To: <6a470a5f0801161243g4e1ff8acxfd172101e5db1020@mail.gmail.com> References: <6a470a5f0801161243g4e1ff8acxfd172101e5db1020@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5bab831e0801161417u74c730acj5422367c9bf95564@mail.gmail.com> I've had a Cingular / ATT 3g Card for a couple of years now.. It depends SO MUCH on your physical location. Only recently has it started to consistently connect to a "3G" source here in Edina, MN. (I assume they have a fallback to GPRS only when not near a 3g source). You might want to check with a local LUG. My company has contractors in Texas and AZ and there the Verizon cards are WAY faster than Cingular cards. I have an Option GT MAX Qualcom 3g CDMA for the record. Right now my laptop runs Vista. ( I know, but all my servers and my desktop run RHEL or Fedora) so I couldn't tell you about compat. issues. When not in 3g mode it is nearly unusable for my email (Scalix) or even ssh.. I thought i'd be able to use it to work well at Detroit Lakes this summer, but no such luck. (ended up leaching a neighbors unsecured WiFi.) YMMV Christopher Smith Sysadmin.. Linux User since 1997. On Jan 16, 2008 2:43 PM, Harv Nelson wrote: > I'm out in nevada/arizona camping on the dessert ... I'm sick of > chasing back to town to go to the library to do email. do any of you > have experience with an air card from either ATT, or Sprint?, or > whatever company? so far I'm finding that many of the USB units they > want to sell me won't work with our system only bill's stuff or MAC. > any pointers, suggestions or tips are welcome. > > thanks, > > HARV, AI9NL > washburn, wi > currently in > lasvegas,nv > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- "The gun... insures that the people are the equal of their government whenever that government forgets that it is servant and not master of the governed." Ronald Reagan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080116/f8e8d03a/attachment.htm From thoth.serath at gmail.com Wed Jan 16 16:42:28 2008 From: thoth.serath at gmail.com (Chris Gloege) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 16:42:28 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] vmware Message-ID: <7c055dc50801161442n2d3d01c5k559f64814087871d@mail.gmail.com> vmware is having online seminars lately. they just started yesterday and are having one every couple of days. very informative, as if you are there with them. interesting format. i think i am going to install an esx server on my laptop. currently running a multi boot windows xp, backtrack 2 final, and openbsd. anyway, thought i would post since i have been reading for a while now. twin cities system administrators meeting tomorrow night at 7:00pm Main Floor Conference Room France Place 3601 Minnesota Drive Bloomington, MN 55435 Directions: The France Place Building is at 3601 Minnesota Drive on the northeast corner of Hwy 494 and France Avenue in the Bloomington business district. From 494, go north on France Ave. to Minnesota Drive (the first streetlight north of 494). Take a right (east) onto Minnesota Drive and immediately take another right into the parking lot. The building sign is visible from 494 and shares a parking lot with Fuddruckers. France Place is a nine story brown brick building. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080116/d6254c2e/attachment.htm From tclug at natecarlson.com Wed Jan 16 17:41:49 2008 From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:41:49 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] air cards?? In-Reply-To: References: <6a470a5f0801161338h6c8b19doad9e433c0e6cfe57@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Erik Anderson wrote: > Ahh - that's good to know. My only experience has been with Sprint EVDO > and TMO EDGE (through my crackberry). *nods*, that'd do it! ;) I should also note that I've found that latency is a bit better with dedicated cards than tethered. Not sure why. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | | depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tclug at natecarlson.com Wed Jan 16 17:47:24 2008 From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:47:24 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] air cards?? In-Reply-To: <5bab831e0801161417u74c730acj5422367c9bf95564@mail.gmail.com> References: <6a470a5f0801161243g4e1ff8acxfd172101e5db1020@mail.gmail.com> <5bab831e0801161417u74c730acj5422367c9bf95564@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Chris Smith wrote: > Only recently has it started to consistently connect to a "3G" source > here in Edina, MN. Recently as of 11/1? That's when AT&T turned on 3G in Minneapolis. ;) If it's been more recently than that, they probably boosted the power from your local tower or something. But, yes, you do need to be in a 3G area.. and if not 3G, *hopefully* at least EDGE. > (I assume they have a fallback to GPRS only when not near a 3g source). Correct - any modern card will fall back to EDGE first, then GPRS. > I thought i'd be able to use it to work well at Detroit Lakes this > summer, but no such luck. That is one downside with HSDPA (the 3G tech that AT&T currently uses) -- it actually requires new hardware at the tower sites to move the towers from supporting EDGE -> 3G, so the rollout is much, much slower than on networks like Verizon and Sprint where (from what I've heard) it's at the most a card upgrade at the tower. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | | depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From cncole at earthlink.net Wed Jan 16 21:01:34 2008 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:01:34 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] air cards?? In-Reply-To: <6a470a5f0801161338h6c8b19doad9e433c0e6cfe57@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: harv.nelson at gmail.com [mailto:harv.nelson at gmail.com]On Behalf Of > Harv Nelson > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 3:38 PM > To: Nate Carlson > Cc: Chuck Cole; Madison Linux Users Group; TCLug > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] air cards?? > > > Is it possible for me to turn the laptop into a router of sorts , once > I return home? I'd like to avoid having two ISP's. The Sprint wireless data connection is only 150KB max, so not as fast as broadband at home. I'd just regard it as a free extra feature "for emergency use", and not as primary ISP... especially since the data loophole is not officially supported by Sprint, et al. Chuck > > On 1/16/08, Nate Carlson wrote: > > On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Chuck Cole wrote: > > > Why not use the entirely free loophole on Sprint 3G and some other > > > phones? If just for camping trips, why pay the extra fees for no > > > additional benefit? > > > > > > I was extremely annoyed that Sprint's service for the card I > have would > > > cost $40/mo more for no better data connection and any use of > the voice > > > capability my card has would cost $0.40/min even though I'm a > subscriber > > > with better and sometimes free voice rates. > > From cncole at earthlink.net Wed Jan 16 21:01:33 2008 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:01:33 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] air cards?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Nate Carlson [mailto:tclug at natecarlson.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 3:32 PM > To: Chuck Cole > Cc: ai9nl at arrl.net; Madison Linux Users Group; TCLug > Subject: RE: [tclug-list] air cards?? > > > On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Chuck Cole wrote: > > Why not use the entirely free loophole on Sprint 3G and some other > > phones? If just for camping trips, why pay the extra fees for no > > additional benefit? > > > > I was extremely annoyed that Sprint's service for the card I have would > > cost $40/mo more for no better data connection and any use of the voice > > capability my card has would cost $0.40/min even though I'm a > subscriber > > with better and sometimes free voice rates. > > If you use your wireless card on a regular basis, having it separate from > your phone can be very, very handy. The card I have technically allows the laptop to do both data and voice, so I should have two options for phone when using the card instead of just one. My Bluetooth stereo headset allows phone calls to interrupt an audio feed if I wish... seems more handy that way if the Sprint fees weren't so stupid and prohibitive. > I'd say for the regular camping trip > the tethered route should be fine, but for my case (where you use it to > support servers, etc), having it separated is much more convenient, > especially since it's integrated into my laptop. You have an internal mini-PCI for the cell data connection? Does that also do WiFi or need a special slot? Certainly better for the road warrior to have the built-in thing and charge off the service. Harv, being a HAM who may have taken equipment on the camping trip, may no problem keeping his cell in its cradle and connected by USB. My phone usage isn't high, and I find it very easy to reconnect if I choose to answer a call during a data session or just let it go to voicemail. Mine also runs fine while travelling in a car and keeping the laptop and cell powered via an inverter. Some kinda desolate sections of highway between here and Colorado Springs had only 1G voice service and not (yet) 3G voice+data last time I tried that. If camping or travelling by moho, just not a problem at all to use the cell phone as a data connection. Doesn't work in the Boundary Waters however: no nearby 3G towers :-) Chuck From stuff at cb1inc.com Wed Jan 16 21:36:03 2008 From: stuff at cb1inc.com (Chris Barber) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:36:03 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] air cards?? In-Reply-To: <6a470a5f0801161243g4e1ff8acxfd172101e5db1020@mail.gmail.com> References: <6a470a5f0801161243g4e1ff8acxfd172101e5db1020@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <478ECD23.2060603@cb1inc.com> I haven't been following this thread, so I apologize if any of this is repeated. I have a Sprint EVDO ExpressCard for my MacBook Pro. I'm sitting at a coffee shop in Eden Prairie and I have full signal strength. When I run the speed test at http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/ from the Chicago server, I get 1753kb (214KB) down and 263kb (32KB) up. Works fine for email, web, YouTube, and torrents. I even played a little Guild Wars thanks to CrossOver. I have "unlimited data" thanks to Sprint's "unlimited plan" and I've never received any warning for over use and I do use it almost everyday. I also pay an arm and a leg. :) -Chris * * Harv Nelson wrote: > I'm out in nevada/arizona camping on the dessert ... I'm sick of > chasing back to town to go to the library to do email. do any of you > have experience with an air card from either ATT, or Sprint?, or > whatever company? so far I'm finding that many of the USB units they > want to sell me won't work with our system only bill's stuff or MAC. > any pointers, suggestions or tips are welcome. > > thanks, > > HARV, AI9NL > washburn, wi > currently in > lasvegas,nv > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080116/c6cac5c4/attachment.htm From tclug at natecarlson.com Wed Jan 16 21:45:20 2008 From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:45:20 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] air cards?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Chuck Cole wrote: > You have an internal mini-PCI for the cell data connection? Does that also > do WiFi or need a special slot? Yeah; it's separate from WiFi, but modern Dells at least have a second MiniPCI slot and second antenna for it. The card is called the 'Dell Wireless 5500 Mobile Broadband'. The laptop also has a separate slot for the SIM card. > Certainly better for the road warrior to have the built-in thing and > charge off the service. Exactly! > Doesn't work in the Boundary Waters however: no nearby 3G towers :-) Exactly! That's what the Boundary Waters are for. ;) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | | depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tclug at natecarlson.com Wed Jan 16 21:46:32 2008 From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:46:32 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] air cards?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Chuck Cole wrote: > The Sprint wireless data connection is only 150KB max, so not as fast as > broadband at home. I'd just regard it as a free extra feature "for > emergency use", and not as primary ISP... especially since the data > loophole is not officially supported by Sprint, et al. In fact, most of the contracts specifically prohibit tethering (working along the lines of 'for phone use only', etc). They will generally cut you off if you're using excessive data. The data cards are contracted for laptop use, but not as your primary internet connection. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | | depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From teeahr1 at gmail.com Thu Jan 17 13:17:01 2008 From: teeahr1 at gmail.com (p.daniels) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:17:01 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] lost virtual consoles In-Reply-To: <478E7E70.4020304@gmail.com> References: <200801150023.20467.TeeAhr1@gmail.com> <478CCDAA.3060105@gmail.com> <478E7E70.4020304@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200801171317.01408.TeeAhr1@gmail.com> On Wednesday January 16 2008 16:00:16 I wrote: > Tony, that link was very enlightening. Those are pretty much my exact > symptoms. I will do some more poking in that direction when I return > home and report my findings. > > Thanks again to all. > > -pd- Well, I tried a few of the suggested fixes in the ubuntuforums thread linked to from the bug you pointed me to. Specifically, I enabled fbcon and vesafb in my /etc/initramfs-tools/modules file and unblacklisted vesafb in /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-framebuffers. No joy. Then it occurred to (stupid old) me that I'm seeing boot messages when I start up, but not when I shut down (the monitor goes to sleep as soon as KDE stops). Ergo, it seems to me that it's not until KDM starts that I lose my other consoles. I noticed in my kdm.log the line "(EE) intel(0): I830 Vblank Pipe Setup Failed 0" Might that be related? -pd- From webmaster at mn-linux.org Thu Jan 17 14:28:48 2008 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 14:28:48 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200801172028.m0HKSmn02127@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: cheap pc parts time to thin the herd again.... --barebones midtower atx case, amd XP 200+ (1650mhz), 52x cdrom, elitegroup mobo w/ on board video, snd, nic., floppy...$40 32mb pc??? free w/ other purchase 64mb pc100/133 $0.25each 64mb pc100 ecc dimm sdram...$1each 128mb pc100 $1each 128mb pc133 $1.5each 128mb pc2100 $2 128mb pc100 ecc dimm sdram...$2each 256mb pc2 3200 $3 64mb RIMM (600-53-101 mr16r0824bn1-cg6) (pair is 128mb upgrade kit)...$10 RIMM terminators...free w/ purchase 256mb RIMM (800-45-100 16/ecc kmmr18rgac1-rk8)....$5 (i only have one!!) pc2 3200 ddr 256mb sodimm (NOTEBOOK)...$8 ddr 2100 256mb sodimm (NOTEBOOK)...$8each 512mb ecc pc133 168pin...$20 256mb ecc pc133 168pin...$15each I also have a few 72pin 16mb, 32mb, 64mb ram AMD Athlon 950mhz socket A/462..$2 Intel socket 370 PIII 866mhz 133mhz bus processors...$3each Intel socket 370 pIII 1000mhz 133mhz bus processors...$4each Intel socket 370 pIII 1200mhz celeron processor...$5 Intel celeron 1600mhz processor...$5 Intel pIV 1500mhz...$10 Intel celeron 1800mhz processor (a few bent pins)...$2each PCI 4 channel sound card, csdx hsp56 cm18738..$5each Via based pci USB card vt83c572..$2 D-link 530tx+ pci 10/100 network card New In Box...$5each SMC 1211tx pci 10/100 network card New In Box...$5 3D labs wildcat 5110 64mb video card..$5 Adaptec 131u2 scsi raid card..$2 Seller Email address: jungle at hickorytech dot net http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com Thu Jan 17 16:59:56 2008 From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 16:59:56 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Install Linux on your Old PowerPC Mac - Topic @PenguinsUnbound Linux Meeting Jan 26, 2008 Message-ID: <478FDDEC.9060205@Goecke-Dolan.com> This months PenguinsUnbound.net meeting will be Saturday January 26, 2008 at TIES, 1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108 from 10:00 to 12:00. (See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com/Location_for_Meetings for directions and more info.) I will be install Linux Ubuntu 7.10 on a Power PC Mac. So bring your old Mac (and your questions) and we will install Linux on it! http://www.penguinsunbound.com/Future_Meetings/20080126 Thanks, hope to see you there. ==>brian. From jima at beer.tclug.org Thu Jan 17 18:19:57 2008 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 18:19:57 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Install Linux on your Old PowerPC Mac - Topic @PenguinsUnbound Linux Meeting Jan 26, 2008 Message-ID: (Oops, meant to reply to tclug-list, not tclug-announce.) On Thu, 17 Jan 2008, Brian Dolan-Goecke wrote: > I will be install Linux Ubuntu 7.10 on a Power PC Mac. So bring your > old Mac (and your questions) and we will install Linux on it! Just how old are we talking? B&W G3? Beige G3? 6400? *6100*? Pretty vague. :-) (Sadly, I think I still have every one of those...some of which are still happily running Linux.) Jima From rhubarbpie at poetworld.net Thu Jan 17 20:47:36 2008 From: rhubarbpie at poetworld.net (rhubarbpie at poetworld.net) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 20:47:36 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Perl decrement question Message-ID: <47901348.7070302@poetworld.net> I'm a Perl novice and hope this is a proper channel for a simple question. Why does the following decrement incorrectly below 10? It works with $i -- or $i -= .5. This is part of a larger script and I've made a workaround, but I'm still curious. use Math::Complex; for ($i = 13; $i >= 1; $i -= .1) { print"$i\n"; } 11 10.9 10.8 10.7 10.6 10.5 10.4 10.3 10.2 10.1 10 9.90000000000001 9.80000000000001 9.70000000000001 9.60000000000001 9.50000000000001 9.40000000000001 9.30000000000001 9.20000000000001 9.10000000000001 9.00000000000001 From trnja001 at umn.edu Thu Jan 17 21:33:30 2008 From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:33:30 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Perl decrement question In-Reply-To: <47901348.7070302@poetworld.net> References: <47901348.7070302@poetworld.net> Message-ID: <47901E0A.6040208@umn.edu> rhubarbpie at poetworld.net wrote: > I'm a Perl novice and hope this is a proper channel for a simple > question. Why does the following decrement incorrectly below 10? It > works with $i -- or $i -= .5. This is part of a larger script and I've > made a workaround, but I'm still curious. > Start $i from 100 and you'll notice that it happens for numbers greater than 10. The reason for this is that certain numbers cannot be represented accurately with the floating point representation your computer architecture and data type use. IEEE 754 is a standard that addresses this so try reading up on that if you're really interested. Any who, this is even worse in C with a float. float i; for (i = 13; i >= 1; i -= .1){ printf("i equals %f\n", i); } i equals 13.000000 i equals 12.900000 i equals 12.799999 i equals 12.699999 i equals 12.599998 i equals 12.499998 i equals 12.399998 i equals 12.299997 i equals 12.199997 i equals 12.099997 i equals 11.999996 i equals 11.899996 i equals 11.799995 i equals 11.699995 i equals 11.599995 i equals 11.499994 i equals 11.399994 i equals 11.299994 i equals 11.199993 i equals 11.099993 i equals 10.999992 i equals 10.899992 i equals 10.799992 i equals 10.699991 i equals 10.599991 i equals 10.499990 i equals 10.399990 i equals 10.299990 i equals 10.199989 i equals 10.099989 But works perfectly with (even starting from 100) double i; for (i = 13; i >= 1; i -= .1){ printf("i equals %lf\n", i); Perl has a different way of representing float point numbers it seems so look into a module that supports extra precision floats. From thoth.serath at gmail.com Thu Jan 17 22:42:56 2008 From: thoth.serath at gmail.com (Chris Gloege) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:42:56 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] tcsa meeting Message-ID: <7c055dc50801172042k29a25b8fnf7c682553af47f2e@mail.gmail.com> wonderful meeting tonight. we (10 of us) went to fuddrucers restaurant after. i was wondering about the website for learning c that the sheetrocker was talking about. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080117/8e2156ee/attachment.htm From leif.t.johnson at gmail.com Thu Jan 17 23:46:56 2008 From: leif.t.johnson at gmail.com (Leif Johnson) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 23:46:56 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Perl decrement question In-Reply-To: <47901E0A.6040208@umn.edu> References: <47901348.7070302@poetworld.net> <47901E0A.6040208@umn.edu> Message-ID: On Jan 17, 2008 9:33 PM, Elvedin Trnjanin wrote: > rhubarbpie at poetworld.net wrote: > > I'm a Perl novice and hope this is a proper channel for a simple > > question. Why does the following decrement incorrectly below 10? It > > works with $i -- or $i -= .5. This is part of a larger script and I've > > made a workaround, but I'm still curious. > > > Start $i from 100 and you'll notice that it happens for numbers greater > than 10. The reason for this is that certain numbers cannot be > represented accurately with the floating point representation your > computer architecture and data type use. IEEE 754 is a standard that > addresses this so try reading up on that if you're really interested. > Any who, this is even worse in C with a float. 1/10 is a repeating binary number, so no matter how many bits you have in a floating point representation it will be wrong. So the double version does not work perfectly, just less imperfectly than the floating point version. leif From tclug at beitsahour.net Fri Jan 18 00:02:25 2008 From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 00:02:25 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] don't order from Aztekcomputers In-Reply-To: <478D373B.2020605@gmail.com> References: <47f4d5e70801151435iecaaf2do2282dc3d38715330@mail.gmail.com> <478D373B.2020605@gmail.com> Message-ID: <479040F1.9050404@beitsahour.net> Aaron Miller wrote: > With a name like "Zahid" I'm not too surprised by the type ;) > Please enlighten me, me dumb foriner, me no englisch, me fall ov truk, hurt head! From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Fri Jan 18 00:01:56 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 00:01:56 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Perl decrement question In-Reply-To: <47901348.7070302@poetworld.net> References: <47901348.7070302@poetworld.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 rhubarbpie at poetworld.net wrote: > I'm a Perl novice and hope this is a proper channel for a simple > question. Why does the following decrement incorrectly below 10? It > works with $i -- or $i -= .5. This is part of a larger script and I've > made a workaround, but I'm still curious. It has to do with the interpretation of ".1". A computer will represent the number in binary digits. Unfortunately for you, .1, unlike .5, doesn't have a short representation in binary digits. The value .1 equals 1/10 which equals 1/2 ? 1/5. In binary, multiplying by 1/2 is like multiplying by 1/10 in decimal, it just shifts everything one digit to the right of the point (is it still called a "decimal point" when it's in base 2?). So what is 1/5 in binary? 0.001100110011001100110011... Which means that .1 is this: 0.0001100110011001100110011... If we store 32 binary digits, we round it off like so: 0.00011001100110011001100110011001 which means we are off by 1.001100110011 ? 2^-33 (where the first part of that is a binary representation), or in base 10: 1.2 ? 2^-33 = 1.39698386192322... ? 10^-10, so you'd expect to see errors in the 10th digit. As someone else pointed out, different software and different architectures will use different numbers of binary digits to represent numbers so you will have different amounts of error in different situations. Mike > use Math::Complex; > > for ($i = 13; $i >= 1; $i -= .1) { > print"$i\n"; > } > > 11 > 10.9 > 10.8 > 10.7 > 10.6 > 10.5 > 10.4 > 10.3 > 10.2 > 10.1 > 10 > 9.90000000000001 > 9.80000000000001 > 9.70000000000001 > 9.60000000000001 > 9.50000000000001 > 9.40000000000001 > 9.30000000000001 > 9.20000000000001 > 9.10000000000001 > 9.00000000000001 > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Fri Jan 18 00:30:11 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 00:30:11 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] don't order from Aztekcomputers In-Reply-To: <479040F1.9050404@beitsahour.net> References: <47f4d5e70801151435iecaaf2do2282dc3d38715330@mail.gmail.com> <478D373B.2020605@gmail.com> <479040F1.9050404@beitsahour.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jan 2008, Munir Nassar wrote: > Aaron Miller wrote: >> With a name like "Zahid" I'm not too surprised by the type ;) > > Please enlighten me, me dumb foriner, me no englisch, me fall ov truk, > hurt head! I'm definitely "achieving" this one. Here's my all-time favorite bit of "Engrish" (stolen from engrish.com): http://taxa.epi.umn.edu/~mbmiller/pics/humor/dangerengrish.jpg There are no "types" in it, but lots of funny phrases. How would you like to see that label on your kid's toy? You've been warned! Mike From tclug at beitsahour.net Fri Jan 18 00:38:30 2008 From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 00:38:30 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: External RAID 5 SATA enclosures In-Reply-To: References: <27e6356a0801120656n107a7f90s9f9496f9eb46dfaf@mail.gmail.com> <478C73A2.60507@poptix.net> <31798.1200426612@skuld.wookimus.net> Message-ID: <47904966.6000205@beitsahour.net> Mike Miller wrote: > The two 500 GB disks we are using cost only $250 together. It sounds like > hardware RAID controllers are very overpriced. Seriously, with those > prices, if the software RAID was impacting on performance, I might go for > a faster CPU or dual CPU system instead of buying a RAID controller. > Lets not be too hasty here, hardware raid does have some advantages still. Linux or any kernel for that matter does not deal well with the loss of a drive, if doing software raid and one of your drives fails catastrophically chances are linux will hang on hardware IO. or worse. Hardware raid controllers deal better with failed drives and do not pass the failure on to the OS to have it fail as well. Additionally, linux does not have a bootloader that understands software raid5. the only reason grub or lilo work on software raid1 is because they can read the drives as if they are not in a raid at all. You can work around this by doing a raid1 for /boot and the rest of the OS in raid5 and you must insure that the bootloader is installer on both drives that you are using for this. calling software raid "fake" is imho false. raid stands for a redundant array of inexpensive drives. doing the processing on the host cpu rather than offloading it to a daughter is immaterial. raid is raid. I'll second the 3ware suggestion, it has good monitoring tools to boot. and lastly, i highly recommend using Raid Edition drives. ATA drives do address rewriting if they detect errors, too many of those (yet not enough to actually fail the drive) will degrade the drives performance causing the raid card to kick the drive out because its too slow. causing a lot of head scratching because the diagnostics tools do not actually find anything wrong with the drive. Raid Edition drives do not do the rewriting (or as much of it) so the drive with actually fail sooner. From bunjee at charter.net Fri Jan 18 02:46:22 2008 From: bunjee at charter.net (Danny) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 02:46:22 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1200645982.7234.3.camel@patty> Can anyone please explain to me in detail how to install a .bin file with Ubuntu 7.10? Danny J. On Fri, 2008-01-18 at 00:31 -0600, tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org wrote: > Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: lost virtual consoles (p.daniels) > 2. New TCLUG Classified Ad (TCLUG Classifieds) > 3. Install Linux on your Old PowerPC Mac - Topic > @PenguinsUnbound Linux Meeting Jan 26, 2008 (Brian Dolan-Goecke) > 4. Re: Install Linux on your Old PowerPC Mac - Topic > @PenguinsUnbound Linux Meeting Jan 26, 2008 (Jima) > 5. Perl decrement question (rhubarbpie at poetworld.net) > 6. Re: Perl decrement question (Elvedin Trnjanin) > 7. tcsa meeting (Chris Gloege) > 8. Re: Perl decrement question (Leif Johnson) > 9. Re: don't order from Aztekcomputers (Munir Nassar) > 10. Re: Perl decrement question (Mike Miller) > 11. Re: don't order from Aztekcomputers (Mike Miller) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:17:01 -0600 > From: "p.daniels" > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] lost virtual consoles > To: TCLUG > Message-ID: <200801171317.01408.TeeAhr1 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > On Wednesday January 16 2008 16:00:16 I wrote: > > Tony, that link was very enlightening. Those are pretty much my exact > > symptoms. I will do some more poking in that direction when I return > > home and report my findings. > > > > Thanks again to all. > > > > -pd- > > Well, I tried a few of the suggested fixes in the ubuntuforums thread linked > to from the bug you pointed me to. Specifically, I enabled fbcon and vesafb > in my /etc/initramfs-tools/modules file and unblacklisted vesafb > in /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-framebuffers. No joy. > > Then it occurred to (stupid old) me that I'm seeing boot messages when I start > up, but not when I shut down (the monitor goes to sleep as soon as KDE > stops). Ergo, it seems to me that it's not until KDM starts that I lose my > other consoles. > > I noticed in my kdm.log the line "(EE) intel(0): I830 Vblank Pipe Setup Failed > 0" Might that be related? > > -pd- > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 14:28:48 -0600 > From: TCLUG Classifieds > Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Message-ID: <200801172028.m0HKSmn02127 at crusader.real-time.com> > > New TCLUG Classified Ad > > Category: Computer > > Type of Ad: For Sale > > Subject: cheap pc parts > > time to thin the herd again.... > > --barebones midtower atx case, amd XP 200+ (1650mhz), 52x cdrom, elitegroup mobo w/ on board video, snd, nic., floppy...$40 > > 32mb pc??? free w/ other purchase > 64mb pc100/133 $0.25each > 64mb pc100 ecc dimm sdram...$1each > 128mb pc100 $1each > 128mb pc133 $1.5each > 128mb pc2100 $2 > 128mb pc100 ecc dimm sdram...$2each > 256mb pc2 3200 $3 > 64mb RIMM (600-53-101 mr16r0824bn1-cg6) (pair is 128mb upgrade kit)...$10 > RIMM terminators...free w/ purchase > 256mb RIMM (800-45-100 16/ecc kmmr18rgac1-rk8)....$5 (i only have one!!) > pc2 3200 ddr 256mb sodimm (NOTEBOOK)...$8 > ddr 2100 256mb sodimm (NOTEBOOK)...$8each > 512mb ecc pc133 168pin...$20 > 256mb ecc pc133 168pin...$15each > I also have a few 72pin 16mb, 32mb, 64mb ram > > AMD Athlon 950mhz socket A/462..$2 > Intel socket 370 PIII 866mhz 133mhz bus processors...$3each > Intel socket 370 pIII 1000mhz 133mhz bus processors...$4each > Intel socket 370 pIII 1200mhz celeron processor...$5 > Intel celeron 1600mhz processor...$5 > Intel pIV 1500mhz...$10 > Intel celeron 1800mhz processor (a few bent pins)...$2each > > PCI 4 channel sound card, csdx hsp56 cm18738..$5each > Via based pci USB card vt83c572..$2 > D-link 530tx+ pci 10/100 network card New In Box...$5each > SMC 1211tx pci 10/100 network card New In Box...$5 > 3D labs wildcat 5110 64mb video card..$5 > Adaptec 131u2 scsi raid card..$2 > > > Seller Email address: jungle at hickorytech dot net > > http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 16:59:56 -0600 > From: Brian Dolan-Goecke > Subject: [tclug-list] Install Linux on your Old PowerPC Mac - Topic > @PenguinsUnbound Linux Meeting Jan 26, 2008 > To: tclug-announce , Chris Oxenreider > , John Kuster , Dan Boehlke > , tclug-list , > Wynn Hagemeyer , Rick Meyerhoff > , "Bob W. Anderson" > Message-ID: <478FDDEC.9060205 at Goecke-Dolan.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > This months PenguinsUnbound.net meeting will be Saturday January 26, > 2008 at TIES, > 1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108 > from 10:00 to 12:00. > (See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com/Location_for_Meetings > for directions and more info.) > > I will be install Linux Ubuntu 7.10 on a Power PC Mac. So bring your > old Mac (and your questions) and we will install Linux on it! > > http://www.penguinsunbound.com/Future_Meetings/20080126 > > Thanks, hope to see you there. > > ==>brian. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 18:19:57 -0600 (CST) > From: Jima > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Install Linux on your Old PowerPC Mac - > Topic @PenguinsUnbound Linux Meeting Jan 26, 2008 > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > (Oops, meant to reply to tclug-list, not tclug-announce.) > > On Thu, 17 Jan 2008, Brian Dolan-Goecke wrote: > > I will be install Linux Ubuntu 7.10 on a Power PC Mac. So bring your > > old Mac (and your questions) and we will install Linux on it! > > Just how old are we talking? B&W G3? Beige G3? 6400? *6100*? Pretty > vague. :-) > (Sadly, I think I still have every one of those...some of which are still > happily running Linux.) > > Jima > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 20:47:36 -0600 > From: rhubarbpie at poetworld.net > Subject: [tclug-list] Perl decrement question > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Message-ID: <47901348.7070302 at poetworld.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > I'm a Perl novice and hope this is a proper channel for a simple > question. Why does the following decrement incorrectly below 10? It > works with $i -- or $i -= .5. This is part of a larger script and I've > made a workaround, but I'm still curious. > > use Math::Complex; > > for ($i = 13; $i >= 1; $i -= .1) { > print"$i\n"; > } > > 11 > 10.9 > 10.8 > 10.7 > 10.6 > 10.5 > 10.4 > 10.3 > 10.2 > 10.1 > 10 > 9.90000000000001 > 9.80000000000001 > 9.70000000000001 > 9.60000000000001 > 9.50000000000001 > 9.40000000000001 > 9.30000000000001 > 9.20000000000001 > 9.10000000000001 > 9.00000000000001 > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:33:30 -0600 > From: Elvedin Trnjanin > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Perl decrement question > To: rhubarbpie at poetworld.net > Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Message-ID: <47901E0A.6040208 at umn.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > rhubarbpie at poetworld.net wrote: > > I'm a Perl novice and hope this is a proper channel for a simple > > question. Why does the following decrement incorrectly below 10? It > > works with $i -- or $i -= .5. This is part of a larger script and I've > > made a workaround, but I'm still curious. > > > Start $i from 100 and you'll notice that it happens for numbers greater > than 10. The reason for this is that certain numbers cannot be > represented accurately with the floating point representation your > computer architecture and data type use. IEEE 754 is a standard that > addresses this so try reading up on that if you're really interested. > Any who, this is even worse in C with a float. > > float i; > for (i = 13; i >= 1; i -= .1){ > printf("i equals %f\n", i); > } > > i equals 13.000000 > i equals 12.900000 > i equals 12.799999 > i equals 12.699999 > i equals 12.599998 > i equals 12.499998 > i equals 12.399998 > i equals 12.299997 > i equals 12.199997 > i equals 12.099997 > i equals 11.999996 > i equals 11.899996 > i equals 11.799995 > i equals 11.699995 > i equals 11.599995 > i equals 11.499994 > i equals 11.399994 > i equals 11.299994 > i equals 11.199993 > i equals 11.099993 > i equals 10.999992 > i equals 10.899992 > i equals 10.799992 > i equals 10.699991 > i equals 10.599991 > i equals 10.499990 > i equals 10.399990 > i equals 10.299990 > i equals 10.199989 > i equals 10.099989 > > But works perfectly with (even starting from 100) > > double i; > for (i = 13; i >= 1; i -= .1){ > printf("i equals %lf\n", i); > > Perl has a different way of representing float point numbers it seems so > look into a module that supports extra precision floats. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:42:56 -0600 > From: "Chris Gloege" > Subject: [tclug-list] tcsa meeting > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Message-ID: > <7c055dc50801172042k29a25b8fnf7c682553af47f2e at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > wonderful meeting tonight. we (10 of us) went to fuddrucers restaurant > after. i was wondering about the website for learning c that the > sheetrocker was talking about. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080117/8e2156ee/attachment-0001.htm > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 23:46:56 -0600 > From: "Leif Johnson" > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Perl decrement question > To: rhubarbpie at poetworld.net, tclug > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Jan 17, 2008 9:33 PM, Elvedin Trnjanin wrote: > > rhubarbpie at poetworld.net wrote: > > > I'm a Perl novice and hope this is a proper channel for a simple > > > question. Why does the following decrement incorrectly below 10? It > > > works with $i -- or $i -= .5. This is part of a larger script and I've > > > made a workaround, but I'm still curious. > > > > > Start $i from 100 and you'll notice that it happens for numbers greater > > than 10. The reason for this is that certain numbers cannot be > > represented accurately with the floating point representation your > > computer architecture and data type use. IEEE 754 is a standard that > > addresses this so try reading up on that if you're really interested. > > Any who, this is even worse in C with a float. > 1/10 is a repeating binary number, so no matter how many bits you have > in a floating point representation it will be wrong. So the double > version does not work perfectly, just less imperfectly than the > floating point version. > > leif > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 00:02:25 -0600 > From: Munir Nassar > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] don't order from Aztekcomputers > To: TCLUG List > Message-ID: <479040F1.9050404 at beitsahour.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Aaron Miller wrote: > > With a name like "Zahid" I'm not too surprised by the type ;) > > > > Please enlighten me, me dumb foriner, me no englisch, me fall ov truk, > hurt head! > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 00:01:56 -0600 (CST) > From: Mike Miller > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Perl decrement question > To: rhubarbpie at poetworld.net > Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 rhubarbpie at poetworld.net wrote: > > > I'm a Perl novice and hope this is a proper channel for a simple > > question. Why does the following decrement incorrectly below 10? It > > works with $i -- or $i -= .5. This is part of a larger script and I've > > made a workaround, but I'm still curious. > > It has to do with the interpretation of ".1". A computer will represent > the number in binary digits. Unfortunately for you, .1, unlike .5, > doesn't have a short representation in binary digits. The value .1 equals > 1/10 which equals 1/2 ? 1/5. In binary, multiplying by 1/2 is like > multiplying by 1/10 in decimal, it just shifts everything one digit to the > right of the point (is it still called a "decimal point" when it's in base > 2?). So what is 1/5 in binary? > > 0.001100110011001100110011... > > Which means that .1 is this: > > 0.0001100110011001100110011... > > If we store 32 binary digits, we round it off like so: > > 0.00011001100110011001100110011001 > > which means we are off by 1.001100110011 ? 2^-33 (where the first part of > that is a binary representation), or in base 10: 1.2 ? 2^-33 = > 1.39698386192322... ? 10^-10, so you'd expect to see errors in the 10th > digit. > > As someone else pointed out, different software and different > architectures will use different numbers of binary digits to represent > numbers so you will have different amounts of error in different > situations. > > Mike > > > > use Math::Complex; > > > > for ($i = 13; $i >= 1; $i -= .1) { > > print"$i\n"; > > } > > > > 11 > > 10.9 > > 10.8 > > 10.7 > > 10.6 > > 10.5 > > 10.4 > > 10.3 > > 10.2 > > 10.1 > > 10 > > 9.90000000000001 > > 9.80000000000001 > > 9.70000000000001 > > 9.60000000000001 > > 9.50000000000001 > > 9.40000000000001 > > 9.30000000000001 > > 9.20000000000001 > > 9.10000000000001 > > 9.00000000000001 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 00:30:11 -0600 (CST) > From: Mike Miller > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] don't order from Aztekcomputers > To: Munir Nassar > Cc: TCLUG List > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > On Fri, 18 Jan 2008, Munir Nassar wrote: > > > Aaron Miller wrote: > >> With a name like "Zahid" I'm not too surprised by the type ;) > > > > Please enlighten me, me dumb foriner, me no englisch, me fall ov truk, > > hurt head! > > I'm definitely "achieving" this one. Here's my all-time favorite bit of > "Engrish" (stolen from engrish.com): > > http://taxa.epi.umn.edu/~mbmiller/pics/humor/dangerengrish.jpg > > There are no "types" in it, but lots of funny phrases. How would you like > to see that label on your kid's toy? You've been warned! > > Mike > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 37, Issue 28 > ****************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080118/78e0d7c8/attachment-0001.htm From bdunnette at gmail.com Fri Jan 18 08:15:52 2008 From: bdunnette at gmail.com (Brian Dunnette) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 08:15:52 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <1200645982.7234.3.camel@patty> References: <1200645982.7234.3.camel@patty> Message-ID: > > Can anyone please explain to me in detail how to install a .bin file with > Ubuntu 7.10? > Danny J. > Remember, Google is your friend -- searching for "install .bin Ubuntu" yielded this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=14223 Basically, .bin means it's a "binary" file that has to be run, rather than Ubuntu's usual .deb packages -- if the file isn't marked as executable, you may have to mark it as such: chmod a+x whatever.bin Hope this helps! -Brian D. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080118/4ca8c34f/attachment.htm From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Fri Jan 18 08:15:48 2008 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 08:15:48 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <1200645982.7234.3.camel@patty> References: <1200645982.7234.3.camel@patty> Message-ID: <20080118081548.1848ecb7@prokofiev.trutwins.homeip.net> On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 02:46:22 -0600 Danny wrote: > Can anyone please explain to me in detail how to install a .bin file > with Ubuntu 7.10? Just a guess without knowing where the file was downloaded from: start a terminal cd dir_where_the_file_is sudo chmod +x file.bin sudo ./file.bin What are you trying to install? Maybe it's in ubuntu's repositories somewhere instead? Josh From florin at iucha.net Fri Jan 18 09:46:09 2008 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 09:46:09 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] don't order from Aztekcomputers In-Reply-To: <479040F1.9050404@beitsahour.net> References: <47f4d5e70801151435iecaaf2do2282dc3d38715330@mail.gmail.com> <478D373B.2020605@gmail.com> <479040F1.9050404@beitsahour.net> Message-ID: <20080118154609.GT27161@iris.iucha.org> On Fri, Jan 18, 2008 at 12:02:25AM -0600, Munir Nassar wrote: > Aaron Miller wrote: > > With a name like "Zahid" I'm not too surprised by the type ;) > > > > Please enlighten me, me dumb foriner, me no englisch, me fall ov truk, > hurt head! Not to mention, slow, too. It took you three days... Kindly please fall carefully next time: http://www.lostateminor.com/2008/01/05/lost-in-translation/ florin ROFLMAO -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080118/b5ad60a6/attachment.pgp From webmaster at mn-linux.org Fri Jan 18 11:54:31 2008 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:54:31 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200801181754.m0IHsVS21031@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: 2x1GB - 240-Pin DDR2 ECC Registered 667/PC25300 Kingston 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM ECC Registered DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Dual Channel Kit Server Memory Full specs: http://tinyurl.com/yva522 I bought for $90, opened and realized I ordered the wrong kind. Rather than pay return shipping and restocking fee I figured I'd see if I can get $75 for it. Never installed, never used. Will guarantee against DOA if installed in a compatible motherboard. Seller Email address: dniesen at gmail dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From ai9nl at arrl.net Fri Jan 18 14:29:51 2008 From: ai9nl at arrl.net (Harv Nelson) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:29:51 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] don't order from Aztekcomputers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6a470a5f0801181229k19a0449cs83a6dc8fa0032503@mail.gmail.com> must be something going around in the past few months. I had similar experience with these guys: http://www.thinkgeek.com/ i was trying to buy a "linux-fish" for the rear of my car. harv On 1/15/08, Mike Miller wrote: > Below is what I had to say to Aztekcomputers. They had the lowest price > for an item that seemed hard to find and they claimed to have 6 in stock. > Maybe they were just phishing for my data: > > > Please cancel my account and remove any information about me from your > system. > > I am doing this because you got my information under false pretenses. You > claimed to have six monitors in stock of a certain brand at a certain > price. I ordered two of them and was made to wait for three weeks while > you played around pretending to try to get them for me. You told me you > would get back to me in 24 hours after my first call, but you didn't do > that. I called a week later only to be told that you would never get > these monitors for me. > > Therefore, I will never order another thing from Aztekcomputers nor will I > recommend Aztekcomputers to anyone else. I do not want you to have my > personal information. Remove it from your system or I will have our > Attorney General on your case. > > Michael B. Miller > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From tclug at freakzilla.com Fri Jan 18 14:44:33 2008 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:44:33 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] don't order from Aztekcomputers In-Reply-To: <6a470a5f0801181229k19a0449cs83a6dc8fa0032503@mail.gmail.com> References: <6a470a5f0801181229k19a0449cs83a6dc8fa0032503@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <187219F1-74D8-4A4E-B76A-9793387401C5@freakzilla.com> On Jan 18, 2008, at 14:29, Harv Nelson wrote: > i was trying to buy a "linux-fish" for the rear of my car. That's odd, I've bought that three times from Thinkgeek in the past 10 years! -Yaron -- From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Fri Jan 18 16:45:43 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:45:43 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] don't order from Aztekcomputers In-Reply-To: <6a470a5f0801181229k19a0449cs83a6dc8fa0032503@mail.gmail.com> References: <6a470a5f0801181229k19a0449cs83a6dc8fa0032503@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jan 2008, Harv Nelson wrote: > must be something going around in the past few months. I had similar > experience with these guys: > > http://www.thinkgeek.com/ My worry was that Aztekcomputers were using fake ads and availability claims to phish for my personal data for future advertising. I hadn't heard of them before. I hope thinkgeek is legit. I've usually heard good things about them but haven't bought anything there yet. > i was trying to buy a "linux-fish" for the rear of my car. Sounds like Yaron bought so many that they ran out! Mike From andyzib at gmail.com Fri Jan 18 17:01:25 2008 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 17:01:25 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: External RAID 5 SATA enclosures In-Reply-To: <47904966.6000205@beitsahour.net> References: <27e6356a0801120656n107a7f90s9f9496f9eb46dfaf@mail.gmail.com> <478C73A2.60507@poptix.net> <31798.1200426612@skuld.wookimus.net> <47904966.6000205@beitsahour.net> Message-ID: > calling software raid "fake" is imho false. raid stands for a redundant > array of inexpensive drives. doing the processing on the host cpu rather > than offloading it to a daughter is immaterial. raid is raid. Fake RAID doesn't refer to software raid, but to the raid controller cards (Most commonly Promise cards) that are really multi-channel disk controllers combined with special BIOS configuration options and software drivers to assist the OS in performing RAID operations. This gives the appearance of a hardware RAID, because the RAID configuration is done using a BIOS setup screen, and the operating system can be booted from the RAID. The concept is the same as WinModems...the CPU ends up doing the work that would otherwise be done on the controller. The drivers hide the reality of the situation from the end user, and it all works fine (Well, in my experience with ISP phone support WinModems never worked fine...) until the end user want to do something like run an Linux instead of Windows on their PC. -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com From nassarmu at beitsahour.net Fri Jan 18 17:44:21 2008 From: nassarmu at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 17:44:21 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: External RAID 5 SATA enclosures In-Reply-To: References: <27e6356a0801120656n107a7f90s9f9496f9eb46dfaf@mail.gmail.com> <478C73A2.60507@poptix.net> <31798.1200426612@skuld.wookimus.net> <47904966.6000205@beitsahour.net> Message-ID: On 1/18/08, Andrew Zbikowski wrote: > Fake RAID doesn't refer to software raid, but to the raid controller > cards (Most commonly Promise cards) that are really multi-channel disk > controllers combined with special BIOS configuration options and > software drivers to assist the OS in performing RAID operations. This > gives the appearance of a hardware RAID, because the RAID > configuration is done using a BIOS setup screen, and the operating > system can be booted from the RAID. i know what you referred to, that still does not make it fake: from wikipedia (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake) fake means not real. so fakeraid would therefore be not real raid, or not a redundant array of inexpensive drives. which is obviously not the case here. The reason it exists is not some satanic conspiracy by the motherboard manufacturers to secretly destroy your data; but to provide those operating systems that are not able to do software raid natively with that capability. cheaply. my Wintendo at home running Windows XP Pro cannot do software raid natively, but using the onboard software raid driver i now have some protection against hard drive failure outside of Windows. > The concept is the same as WinModems...the CPU ends up doing the work > that would otherwise be done on the controller. The drivers hide the > reality of the situation from the end user, and it all works fine > (Well, in my experience with ISP phone support WinModems never worked > fine...) until the end user want to do something like run an Linux > instead of Windows on their PC. I agree, it is very much like WinModems, we should then call it WinRaid because windows is the only OS that needs it. Remember WinModems are not fake modems, they are just not as good as hardware modems. From benjamin.gramlich at gmail.com Fri Jan 18 17:53:19 2008 From: benjamin.gramlich at gmail.com (Benjamin Gramlich) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 17:53:19 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] don't order from Aztekcomputers In-Reply-To: References: <6a470a5f0801181229k19a0449cs83a6dc8fa0032503@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1200700399.8061.6.camel@inspiron> > I hope thinkgeek is legit. I've usually heard good > things about them but haven't bought anything there yet. ThinkGeek is a subsidiary of sourceforge. I think you'll be okay ordering from them. From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Fri Jan 18 18:17:57 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 18:17:57 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] OT: External RAID 5 SATA enclosures In-Reply-To: References: <27e6356a0801120656n107a7f90s9f9496f9eb46dfaf@mail.gmail.com> <478C73A2.60507@poptix.net> <31798.1200426612@skuld.wookimus.net> <47904966.6000205@beitsahour.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jan 2008, Munir Nassar wrote: > On 1/18/08, Andrew Zbikowski wrote: > >> Fake RAID doesn't refer to software raid, but to the raid controller >> cards (Most commonly Promise cards) that are really multi-channel disk >> controllers combined with special BIOS configuration options and >> software drivers to assist the OS in performing RAID operations. This >> gives the appearance of a hardware RAID, because the RAID configuration >> is done using a BIOS setup screen, and the operating system can be >> booted from the RAID. > > i know what you referred to, that still does not make it fake: from > wikipedia (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake) fake means not real. I'm not going to "do battle" with anyone here, and maybe I'm not even disagreeing with anyone, but this is from Wikipedia: Because these controllers often try to give the impression of being hardware RAID controllers, they can be known as Fake RAID. They do actually implement genuine RAID; the only faking is that they do it in software. Their entry got messed up somewhat in the past couple of weeks and it isn't as clear as it was before. It referred to the kind of system where the BIOS has some RAID settings, but does not have a full RAID controller. > I agree, it is very much like WinModems, we should then call it WinRaid > because windows is the only OS that needs it. Remember WinModems are not > fake modems, they are just not as good as hardware modems. I like your idea. I was thinking I'd use the BIOS "Fake RAID" with Linux before I was told that it was of no use except with Windows and that I should use a Linux software RAID. That's what I'm using now. It seems to be working -- is there any way to test it? If one of the drives fails, do we get a warning message? Mike From srcfoo at gmail.com Fri Jan 18 18:46:22 2008 From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 18:46:22 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: External RAID 5 SATA enclosures In-Reply-To: References: <27e6356a0801120656n107a7f90s9f9496f9eb46dfaf@mail.gmail.com> <478C73A2.60507@poptix.net> <31798.1200426612@skuld.wookimus.net> <47904966.6000205@beitsahour.net> Message-ID: <579c6fd30801181646s4cb93adcjab4572da8c385a7b@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 18, 2008 6:17 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > It seems to > be working -- is there any way to test it? If one of the drives fails, do > we get a warning message? Regarding testing, read the manual. I don't remember the exact tests but I believe you mark individual drives/partitions as failed and blah blah blah... read the manual. (Link to teting section http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Software-RAID-HOWTO-6.html) 'cat /proc/mdstat' will tell you what is currently happening with your arrays. Setup mdadm to warn you in case of a failure via email. From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Fri Jan 18 19:18:43 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:18:43 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] OT: External RAID 5 SATA enclosures In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30801181646s4cb93adcjab4572da8c385a7b@mail.gmail.com> References: <27e6356a0801120656n107a7f90s9f9496f9eb46dfaf@mail.gmail.com> <478C73A2.60507@poptix.net> <31798.1200426612@skuld.wookimus.net> <47904966.6000205@beitsahour.net> <579c6fd30801181646s4cb93adcjab4572da8c385a7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jan 2008, Eric Peterson wrote: > On Jan 18, 2008 6:17 PM, Mike Miller wrote: >> It seems to >> be working -- is there any way to test it? If one of the drives fails, do >> we get a warning message? > > Regarding testing, read the manual. I don't remember the exact tests > but I believe you mark individual drives/partitions as failed and blah > blah blah... read the manual. (Link to teting section > http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Software-RAID-HOWTO-6.html) > > 'cat /proc/mdstat' will tell you what is currently happening with your > arrays. Setup mdadm to warn you in case of a failure via email. Thanks, Eric. Read the manual? Why didn't I think of that? I sent it on to the guy who is actually managing that box to make sure that he has the monitoring configured. There isn't much point in using it if you don't monitor! I wonder what would happen if I just yanked the power plug out of a running drive. They advise against it! Mike From florin at iucha.net Fri Jan 18 19:26:13 2008 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:26:13 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: External RAID 5 SATA enclosures In-Reply-To: References: <478C73A2.60507@poptix.net> <31798.1200426612@skuld.wookimus.net> <47904966.6000205@beitsahour.net> <579c6fd30801181646s4cb93adcjab4572da8c385a7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080119012613.GZ27161@iris.iucha.org> On Fri, Jan 18, 2008 at 07:18:43PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote: > I wonder what would happen if I just yanked the power plug out of a > running drive. They advise against it! You would test the RAID alright, but you might send the hard drive heads crashing into the surface, requiring another disk. Cheers, florin -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080118/758cb9b6/attachment-0001.pgp From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Fri Jan 18 19:50:01 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:50:01 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] OT: External RAID 5 SATA enclosures In-Reply-To: <20080119012613.GZ27161@iris.iucha.org> References: <478C73A2.60507@poptix.net> <31798.1200426612@skuld.wookimus.net> <47904966.6000205@beitsahour.net> <579c6fd30801181646s4cb93adcjab4572da8c385a7b@mail.gmail.com> <20080119012613.GZ27161@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jan 2008, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Fri, Jan 18, 2008 at 07:18:43PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote: >> I wonder what would happen if I just yanked the power plug out of a >> running drive. They advise against it! > > You would test the RAID alright, but you might send the hard drive > heads crashing into the surface, requiring another disk. I thought drives were designed so that killing the power autoparked the heads. When the power goes out, drives always seem to be fine. Mike From florin at iucha.net Fri Jan 18 20:32:21 2008 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 20:32:21 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: External RAID 5 SATA enclosures In-Reply-To: References: <31798.1200426612@skuld.wookimus.net> <47904966.6000205@beitsahour.net> <579c6fd30801181646s4cb93adcjab4572da8c385a7b@mail.gmail.com> <20080119012613.GZ27161@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20080119023221.GA27161@iris.iucha.org> On Fri, Jan 18, 2008 at 07:50:01PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote: >>> I wonder what would happen if I just yanked the power plug out of a >>> running drive. They advise against it! >> >> You would test the RAID alright, but you might send the hard drive >> heads crashing into the surface, requiring another disk. > > I thought drives were designed so that killing the power autoparked the > heads. When the power goes out, drives always seem to be fine. Indeed. But "designed to" just means "increases the odds" 8^) florin -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080118/91565429/attachment.pgp From bunjee at charter.net Fri Jan 18 20:49:42 2008 From: bunjee at charter.net (Danny) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 20:49:42 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Installing Google Earth in Ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1200710982.6947.6.camel@patty> I am trying to install Google Earth for Linux. I downloaded it form the Internet & it's on my desktop right now & I can't figure out how to install it. It reads - GoogleEarthLinux.bin - when I click on properties it reads it's a shell script. I tried the directions below with no success. Please advise - I am new to Linux. Danny J. On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 02:46:22 -0600 > Danny wrote: > > > Can anyone please explain to me in detail how to install a .bin file > > with Ubuntu 7.10? > > Just a guess without knowing where the file was downloaded from: > > start a terminal > cd dir_where_the_file_is > sudo chmod +x file.bin > sudo ./file.bin > > What are you trying to install? Maybe it's in ubuntu's repositories > somewhere instead? > > Josh > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080118/e25d4af4/attachment.htm From erikerik at gmail.com Fri Jan 18 21:13:09 2008 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 21:13:09 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Installing Google Earth in Ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <1200710982.6947.6.camel@patty> References: <1200710982.6947.6.camel@patty> Message-ID: On Jan 18, 2008 8:49 PM, Danny wrote: > > I am trying to install Google Earth for Linux. > I downloaded it form the Internet & it's on my desktop right now & I can't > figure out how to install it. > It reads - GoogleEarthLinux.bin - when I click on properties it reads it's > a shell script. I tried the directions below > with no success. Please advise - I am new to Linux. Danny - what happened when you tried the directions that Josh sent? You really can't get a whole lot more detailed than that. Here are the instructions from the horse's mouth, so to speak: http://earth.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=44713&ctx=sibling You won't be able to install this from Gnome/KDE/whatever. You'll need to open up a command shell, use the cd command to navigate to the location where you saved the .bin file and the follow either the instructions Josh sent or the google instructions. -erik From progressivepenguin at gmail.com Sun Jan 20 09:13:32 2008 From: progressivepenguin at gmail.com (Steve T) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 09:13:32 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] don't order from Aztekcomputers In-Reply-To: References: <6a470a5f0801181229k19a0449cs83a6dc8fa0032503@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7156d5f20801200713y3eadfd7cx9097ff01648b127a@mail.gmail.com> Think Geek has been around for quite a while. I've purchased from them numerous times without issue. -- "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act!" -- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080120/3a22b6bf/attachment.htm From aristophrenic at warpmail.net Sun Jan 20 19:36:12 2008 From: aristophrenic at warpmail.net (Isaac Atilano) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 19:36:12 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] tar backup to optical drive In-Reply-To: References: <1200710982.6947.6.camel@patty> Message-ID: <1200879372.16621.1232307463@webmail.messagingengine.com> I have 27GB of files that I'm trying to back up using tar and my DVD writer. I am able to do this by creating the tar volumes in my home directory then burning them aftwerwards. I'm using the following command to create the tar volumes: tar -L 3906000 -cpMf backup.tar dirtobackup Doing it this way allows me to divide the tarball into several similar sized chunks and fit them on dvd's but the disadvantages are that I have to type a new name for each tar chunk and these chunks take up space in my home directory. I also then have to issue another command to burn them: growisofs -Z /dev/cdrom=backup.tar This makes restoration a pain since I then must either copy the burned volumes, naming them exactly as previously specified during tar creation or I must create symlinks to /dev/cdrom named exactly as the volumes are named. What I trying to do is write the tar volumes directly to my DVD writer using the following command: tar -L 3906000 -cpMf /dev/cdrom dirtobackup When I do this I get the following error: tar: /dev/cdrom: Cannot open: Read-only file system I've seen numerous examples of people writing directly to tape and floppy drives using tar by supplying the device node name for the file option. I'm wondering why this method is isn't working for my DVD writer and what my options are. From chewie at wookimus.net Mon Jan 21 11:39:24 2008 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 11:39:24 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] tar backup to optical drive In-Reply-To: <1200879372.16621.1232307463@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1200710982.6947.6.camel@patty> <1200879372.16621.1232307463@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <13665.1200937164@skuld.wookimus.net> Isaac, can I divert you from any such paths? I implemented this once using CD's. The problem with optical media and tar is that tar is a sequential backup utility, whereas optical media is best used as a random seek device. In my experience, in order to extract a single file from a multi-volume backup (spanning multiple CD's or DVD's), you MUST read in the entire volume. (There may be ways to shortcut this, but I never did find a way when I was using this paradigm about 5 years ago.) If you have 3 DVD's with 4.7 GB of data on each, and your file exists on the last DVD, tar will scan SEQUENTIALLY the first two DVD's before finally getting to the third to restore your one file. If you are not planning on restoring individual files (who ever plans for such things?) and care only for an archive copy, this might be an acceptable method. Personally, I would rather write compressed versions of these files to the DVD individually. There is a new option (new, as in I didn't know about it) for growisofs, -z, which generates RRIP records for transparently compressed files. You use the mkzftree utility before running genisoimage. This only works for Linux 2.4.14 or later and creates a non-standard Rock Ridge extension that can only be read on-the-fly by Linux servers. To decompress files on other OS's you need to use mkzftree tool by hand. There may be backup solutions designed with this in mind for CDR and DVD backups. I haven't looked for them, so I don't really know what's out there. Personally, I would much rather buy a couple external SATA disks of sufficient size to do system and data backups, then move one off-site. You can use dm-crypt interface to encrypt entire partitions, then use simple tar routines to back up files (or rsync). Stick on in a safe deposit box, and exchange it once each month with the one on-site. I would LOVE to see data deduplication make its way into the Linux device manager as a block-level module. Free deduplication for any file system... mmmmm... I wonder if anyone is working on that. Perhaps it would be a good PhD thesis... Chad From s.earl.martin at gmail.com Mon Jan 21 12:34:15 2008 From: s.earl.martin at gmail.com (Sam Martin) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 12:34:15 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] tar backup to optical drive In-Reply-To: <1200879372.16621.1232307463@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1200710982.6947.6.camel@patty> <1200879372.16621.1232307463@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: I've used "Mondo Rescue" (http://www.mondorescue.org) to create backups on multiple CDs/DVDs, and, if I recall correctly, you can restore any number of individual files or directories without restoring a giant tar archive. As an added bonus, you can create bootable restore disks in case you want to backup the OS itself. sm On Jan 20, 2008 7:36 PM, Isaac Atilano wrote: > I have 27GB of files that I'm trying to back up using tar and my DVD > writer. > I am able to do this by creating the tar volumes in my home directory > then burning them aftwerwards. I'm using the following command to create > the tar volumes: > tar -L 3906000 -cpMf backup.tar dirtobackup From aristophrenic at warpmail.net Mon Jan 21 14:50:04 2008 From: aristophrenic at warpmail.net (Isaac Atilano) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:50:04 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] tar backup to optical drive In-Reply-To: <13665.1200937164@skuld.wookimus.net> References: <1200710982.6947.6.camel@patty> <1200879372.16621.1232307463@webmail.messagingengine.com> <13665.1200937164@skuld.wookimus.net> Message-ID: <1200948604.27513.1232466779@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 11:39:24 -0600, "Chad Walstrom" said: > Isaac, can I divert you from any such paths? ... > In my experience, in order to extract a single file > from a multi-volume backup (spanning multiple CD's or DVD's), you MUST > read in the entire volume. ng to the third to restore your one file. ... > If you are not planning on restoring individual files (who ever plans > for such things?) and care only for an archive copy, this might be an > acceptable method. Hi Chad. Thanks for the info. The nature of this backup is archival for the event of a hard drive crash or other massive loss of data. I want to make it as simple as possible using standard Unix tools. I was able to simplify the tar process by burning each volume after creation then letting the next volume overwrite the previous one in my home dir. This should also make restoration a little simpler since I'm only dealing with one volume name. From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Mon Jan 21 15:30:53 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 15:30:53 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] tar backup to optical drive In-Reply-To: <1200948604.27513.1232466779@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1200710982.6947.6.camel@patty> <1200879372.16621.1232307463@webmail.messagingengine.com> <13665.1200937164@skuld.wookimus.net> <1200948604.27513.1232466779@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: Here is my very similar problem: I produce digital video files of about 13 GB in size (one hour of raw video per file). It would be handy to be able to split each file into three smaller files and then put the resulting smaller files onto 3 DVDs. I suppose the one true GNU/Linux way to do this is to start by using "split" to break the files into smaller parts. Sound right? Of course, another approach is simply to buy more external HDDs, which would be faster and easier but a little more expensive. For about $125 I can buy a 500 GB external HDD which will hold as much as 100 DVDs. There is little doubt the the external HDD approach will be the wave of the future as prices continue to fall. Someday I'll probably have a petabyte of uncompressed HD home video on a flash drive in my pocket! Mike From bunjee at charter.net Tue Jan 22 05:53:11 2008 From: bunjee at charter.net (Danny) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 05:53:11 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1201002791.6559.3.camel@patty> Is there any software or program that reminds a user of "to-do" things when the OS automatically boots up? It would be an automatic "reminder" splash screen upon boot-up. Thanx, Danny J. On Sun, 2008-01-20 at 12:00 -0600, tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org wrote: > Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: don't order from Aztekcomputers (Steve T) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 09:13:32 -0600 > From: "Steve T" > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] don't order from Aztekcomputers > To: "TCLUG List" > Message-ID: > <7156d5f20801200713y3eadfd7cx9097ff01648b127a at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Think Geek has been around for quite a while. I've purchased from them > numerous times without issue. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080122/adc508c3/attachment.htm From admin at lctn.org Tue Jan 22 07:23:18 2008 From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 07:23:18 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <1201002791.6559.3.camel@patty> References: <1201002791.6559.3.camel@patty> Message-ID: <2176.10.10.1.1.1201008198.squirrel@lctn.org> Evolution is tied to your clock/calendar. Double click a data, and enter a new event. it will remind you when it comes due. The first time you double click a data, it will ask you to set up Evolution, if it is not already configured. From admin at lctn.org Tue Jan 22 07:24:26 2008 From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 07:24:26 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <1201002791.6559.3.camel@patty> References: <1201002791.6559.3.camel@patty> Message-ID: <2188.10.10.1.1.1201008266.squirrel@lctn.org> I meant date, not data:) From teeahr1 at gmail.com Tue Jan 22 10:07:21 2008 From: teeahr1 at gmail.com (p.daniels) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:07:21 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <2188.10.10.1.1.1201008266.squirrel@lctn.org> References: <1201002791.6559.3.camel@patty> <2188.10.10.1.1.1201008266.squirrel@lctn.org> Message-ID: <200801221007.22198.TeeAhr1@gmail.com> On Tuesday January 22 2008 07:24:26 admin at lctn.org wrote: > I meant date, not data:) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list If you don't want to run all of evolution, give Osmo a try. You can find instructions to install here: http://www.ubuntugeek.com/howto-setup-osmo-personal-organizer-in-ubuntu.html Note that a new version has come out since this was written, so go to the Osmo website and get the newest version rather than wgetting the version specified in the howto. Once you've installed all the dependencies listest, it compiles with no problems. Once you've got it compiled, you can have it come up on startup by adding it to "System > Preferences > Sessions". Please note that Osmo is in development and you may encounter bugs. I haven't yet, but I only use it on my spare laptop so I haven't really run it through the gauntlet yet. -pd- From brockn at gmail.com Tue Jan 22 10:17:31 2008 From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:17:31 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <200801221007.22198.TeeAhr1@gmail.com> References: <1201002791.6559.3.camel@patty> <2188.10.10.1.1.1201008266.squirrel@lctn.org> <200801221007.22198.TeeAhr1@gmail.com> Message-ID: <741dcbb80801220817w25bbf638o7a20d2d35f9d6fff@mail.gmail.com> I believe Gnome has a stick note applet, I don't have my Ubuntu box in front of me to confirm. http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Using_GNOME/Sticky_notes From benjamin.gramlich at gmail.com Tue Jan 22 10:59:18 2008 From: benjamin.gramlich at gmail.com (Benjamin Gramlich) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:59:18 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <741dcbb80801220817w25bbf638o7a20d2d35f9d6fff@mail.gmail.com> References: <1201002791.6559.3.camel@patty> <2188.10.10.1.1.1201008266.squirrel@lctn.org> <200801221007.22198.TeeAhr1@gmail.com> <741dcbb80801220817w25bbf638o7a20d2d35f9d6fff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1201021158.20862.1.camel@inspiron> On Tue, 2008-01-22 at 10:17 -0600, Brock Noland wrote: > I believe Gnome has a stick note applet, I don't have my Ubuntu box in > front of me to confirm. > > http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Using_GNOME/Sticky_notes > The application you refer to is called tomboy and is installed by default. From brockn at gmail.com Tue Jan 22 11:13:31 2008 From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:13:31 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 7.10 In-Reply-To: <1201021158.20862.1.camel@inspiron> References: <1201002791.6559.3.camel@patty> <2188.10.10.1.1.1201008266.squirrel@lctn.org> <200801221007.22198.TeeAhr1@gmail.com> <741dcbb80801220817w25bbf638o7a20d2d35f9d6fff@mail.gmail.com> <1201021158.20862.1.camel@inspiron> Message-ID: <741dcbb80801220913p668ab9a6o2d1d81a145c5234a@mail.gmail.com> Ben, thanks! Danny, I am not sure how complex of a solution you are looking for, but I'd use that if I didn't have the "notes" app on my iphone. I use that for reminders which are not date based. On Jan 22, 2008 10:59 AM, Benjamin Gramlich wrote: > > > On Tue, 2008-01-22 at 10:17 -0600, Brock Noland wrote: > > I believe Gnome has a stick note applet, I don't have my Ubuntu box in > > front of me to confirm. > > > > http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Using_GNOME/Sticky_notes > > > The application you refer to is called tomboy and is installed by > default. > > From daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com Tue Jan 22 11:17:51 2008 From: daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com (Dan Armbrust) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:17:51 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] tar backup to optical drive In-Reply-To: <1200879372.16621.1232307463@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1200710982.6947.6.camel@patty> <1200879372.16621.1232307463@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <82f04dc40801220917u1d298223x8a79d8f4a7c51676@mail.gmail.com> I would also recommend against compressing everything together into a single volume... especially when writing to optical disks. It's just far too likely that the media going bad (scratched, whatever) causes corruption somewhere - it's much better if that only prevents you from getting a couple of files back, rather than making it difficult to recover the entire compressed volume. I don't know how well tar deals with corruption in the middle of the archive. Maybe its really good, and my concern is unfounded, but I know my way works :) Plus, in practice, most of my big files that take up tons of space aren't compressable anyway. From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Tue Jan 22 12:06:10 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:06:10 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] tar backup to optical drive In-Reply-To: <82f04dc40801220917u1d298223x8a79d8f4a7c51676@mail.gmail.com> References: <1200710982.6947.6.camel@patty> <1200879372.16621.1232307463@webmail.messagingengine.com> <82f04dc40801220917u1d298223x8a79d8f4a7c51676@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jan 2008, Dan Armbrust wrote: > Plus, in practice, most of my big files that take up tons of space > aren't compressable anyway. Yep. I thought maybe my raw video files from my digital camera would compress well, but that did not happen. With gzip, they only reduced in size by a few percent -- not even worth the time and effort. I'm sure most ordinary video compresses even less than that. The situation is the same with most image data and most audio data. Exceptions would be .bmp files and probably .wav. The thing that really compresses massively is a big text file, especially with a lot of repetition in it. This could include log files, statistical data, and postscript files. Most of the time when a large file will be produced by some program, the program has already been designed to store the output in a compressed form. Mike From andyzib at gmail.com Tue Jan 22 12:51:33 2008 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:51:33 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Off site Backups, JungleDisk on Linux Message-ID: Lots of backup information going around lately. I've been testing out JungleDisk (http://www.jungledisk.com) on my Windows machines as an alternative to using BackupPC to an external hard disk. For those who don't know, JungleDisk is a software package that allows you to use Amazon's S3 service as a locally mapped drive/volume. It also has automated backup features, which is what I'm using to backup the critical data on Windows (My Documents, iTunes, etc.) Looks like Amazon is going to charge me around $6.50 a month for the data stored on S3. Not bad really. So far, I'm happy with it on the Windows machines so I figured it would be time to give it a try under Linux. Has anyone on the list tried it? And a related question for those running automated off site backups: What tools are you using? rsync? Something more advanced? -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com From nmarkon at gmail.com Tue Jan 22 14:09:56 2008 From: nmarkon at gmail.com (Noah Markon) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:09:56 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Slow samba speeds... Message-ID: Hello! I've got an issue with my samba server. I have a 1000Mbps network, and I get good speeds when I transfer files to the server, about 30MB/s. However when I transfer files from my server to my windows client (i haven't tested linux->linux) I only get speeds around 6-7MB/s. I get faster speeds transferring files to my 100mbps client using SCP, around 10MB/s. It's using an built in NIC on a nforce4 motherboard, and it's using the forcedeth driver. Any one got any ideas? Otherwise I'll have to get a new card.. Thanks, Noah From andyzib at gmail.com Tue Jan 22 16:21:49 2008 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:21:49 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Slow samba speeds... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you have an intelligent switch check the switch for dropped packets, collisions, etc. If you are seeing this or you don't have an intelligent switch, try disabling auto negotiation on your switch port (if you can) and the NIC card and manually setting the link speed and duplex settings. Obviously you have the same settings (1000, full duplex) set on both ends. Usually auto negotiation works correctly, but when it doesn't you'll have no end to network performance issues. A larger part of the issue is the Windows network stack. Microsoft created a new stack for Vista and Server 2008, and smb/cifs file sharing speed between Windows Server 2008 and Windows Vista is much improved compared to older versions of Windows. I don't recall the technical details, but this is one issue you'll run into with Windows file sharing there there is no fix for other that going to Vista/Server 2008. I haven't checked Windows Vista and a Linux samba server yet. I should do that as I have a Windows Vista box and Windows XP box on my desk and a Linux samba server across the room... -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com From strayf at freeshell.org Tue Jan 22 16:29:34 2008 From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steve Cayford) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:29:34 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Off site Backups, JungleDisk on Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47966E4E.8050107@freeshell.org> Andrew Zbikowski wrote: > Lots of backup information going around lately. > > I've been testing out JungleDisk (http://www.jungledisk.com) on my > Windows machines as an alternative to using BackupPC to an external > hard disk. For those who don't know, JungleDisk is a software package > that allows you to use Amazon's S3 service as a locally mapped > drive/volume. It also has automated backup features, which is what I'm > using to backup the critical data on Windows (My Documents, iTunes, > etc.) Looks like Amazon is going to charge me around $6.50 a month for > the data stored on S3. Not bad really. > > So far, I'm happy with it on the Windows machines so I figured it > would be time to give it a try under Linux. Has anyone on the list > tried it? > > And a related question for those running automated off site backups: > What tools are you using? rsync? Something more advanced? > I've been using rsnapshot which uses rsync underneath. Haven't had any trouble with it yet after two years of daily backups. -Steve From justin.kremer at gmail.com Tue Jan 22 19:22:17 2008 From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:22:17 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Slow samba speeds... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <27e6356a0801221722s7b7842fbhad520442b4c6cd1e@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 22, 2008 2:09 PM, Noah Markon wrote: > Any one got any ideas? Otherwise I'll have to get a new card.. That may be your best bet... I had identical symptoms with my onboard network, though it was an RTL8169 chipset. After doing a lot of digging, and trying a lot of things in vain (tried changing some network settings, and lots of stuff in smb.conf) I finally came across someone mentioning that a different network card fixed his problem. I went to Microcenter and looked at all the boxes (they're kind enough to put high-res pictures on the front now, so I could recognize the chipsets on every box) and found the only one that wasn't a Realtek chipset. It was a D-Link DGE-530T, and it works wonderfully for most things. I can now transfer to and from that server via samba from XP, OSX and Linux with blazing speeds, but Vista is still only mediocre, though significantly better than before. -- Justin Kremer From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com Tue Jan 22 19:27:56 2008 From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (Kelly Black) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:27:56 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Off site Backups, JungleDisk on Linux In-Reply-To: <47966E4E.8050107@freeshell.org> References: <47966E4E.8050107@freeshell.org> Message-ID: <20080123012756.GA26321@mail.hsd1.mn.comcast.net> On Tue, Jan 22, 2008 at 04:29:34PM -0600, Steve Cayford wrote: > Andrew Zbikowski wrote: > > Lots of backup information going around lately. > > > > I've been testing out JungleDisk (http://www.jungledisk.com) on my > > Windows machines as an alternative to using BackupPC to an external > > hard disk. For those who don't know, JungleDisk is a software package > > that allows you to use Amazon's S3 service as a locally mapped > > drive/volume. It also has automated backup features, which is what I'm > > using to backup the critical data on Windows (My Documents, iTunes, > > etc.) Looks like Amazon is going to charge me around $6.50 a month for > > the data stored on S3. Not bad really. > > > > So far, I'm happy with it on the Windows machines so I figured it > > would be time to give it a try under Linux. Has anyone on the list > > tried it? > > > > And a related question for those running automated off site backups: > > What tools are you using? rsync? Something more advanced? > > > > I've been using rsnapshot which uses rsync underneath. Haven't had any > trouble with it yet after two years of daily backups. I am using Boxbackup: http://www.boxbackup.org/ It has some nice bells and whistles. It can do lazy or snapshot backups and works like rsync in that it only sends the changes over the wire. I mostly like that it also has versioned backups for those times when you wanted the Monday copy of the file that changed every day last week and today is Friday :-) Jungledisk does sound like a pretty good deal though and I would like to hear about folks that have used the Linux version of the client. Kelly From nmarkon at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 13:57:35 2008 From: nmarkon at gmail.com (Noah Markon) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:57:35 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Slow samba speeds... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > A larger part of the issue is the Windows network stack. Microsoft > created a new stack for Vista and Server 2008, and smb/cifs file > sharing speed between Windows Server 2008 and Windows Vista is much > improved compared to older versions of Windows. I don't recall the > technical details, but this is one issue you'll run into with Windows > file sharing there there is no fix for other that going to > Vista/Server 2008. I haven't checked Windows Vista and a Linux samba > server yet. I should do that as I have a Windows Vista box and Windows > XP box on my desk and a Linux samba server across the room... > Thanks for the info. It turns out that it is only my Vista box that has this problem. My XP machies work fine. For some reason I was thinking it was like that for both, the last time I tried with my XP box was quite a while ago.. Thanks for all the help. From nospam at hiltonbsd.com Tue Jan 22 20:47:44 2008 From: nospam at hiltonbsd.com (Stephen Hilton) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 20:47:44 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Slow samba speeds... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4796AAD0.6010109@hiltonbsd.com> Noah Markon wrote: > Hello! > > I've got an issue with my samba server. I have a 1000Mbps network, and > I get good speeds when I transfer files to the server, about 30MB/s. > However when I transfer files from my server to my windows client (i > haven't tested linux->linux) I only get speeds around 6-7MB/s. I get > faster speeds transferring files to my 100mbps client using SCP, > around 10MB/s. It's using an built in NIC on a nforce4 motherboard, > and it's using the forcedeth driver. > > Any one got any ideas? Otherwise I'll have to get a new card.. > > Thanks, > > Noah > http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/samba/chapter/book/appb_02.html http://us3.samba.org/samba/docs/man/Samba-HOWTO-Collection/speed.html http://www.faqs.org/docs/securing/chap29sec287.html A change of network card is also a possible answer. HTH, -Stephen From thoth.serath at gmail.com Thu Jan 24 19:37:29 2008 From: thoth.serath at gmail.com (Chris Gloege) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 19:37:29 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 37, Issue 37 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7c055dc50801241737o7cf2c366uf2830f35ba4eea89@mail.gmail.com> you could always dual boot your vista box, use knoppix bootable cd and qtparted to resize your vista partition, then add xp (and perhaps even a linux or bsd partition while you are at it) partition. that might be an alternate solution. you will have access to both partitions (though not the linux ones) so set the size big enough for your download/upload needs. On Jan 24, 2008 12:00 PM, wrote: > Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Slow samba speeds... (Noah Markon) > 2. Re: Slow samba speeds... (Stephen Hilton) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:57:35 -0600 > From: "Noah Markon" > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Slow samba speeds... > To: "Andrew Zbikowski" > Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > > A larger part of the issue is the Windows network stack. Microsoft > > created a new stack for Vista and Server 2008, and smb/cifs file > > sharing speed between Windows Server 2008 and Windows Vista is much > > improved compared to older versions of Windows. I don't recall the > > technical details, but this is one issue you'll run into with Windows > > file sharing there there is no fix for other that going to > > Vista/Server 2008. I haven't checked Windows Vista and a Linux samba > > server yet. I should do that as I have a Windows Vista box and Windows > > XP box on my desk and a Linux samba server across the room... > > > > > Thanks for the info. It turns out that it is only my Vista box that > has this problem. My XP machies work fine. > > For some reason I was thinking it was like that for both, the last > time I tried with my XP box was quite a while ago.. > > Thanks for all the help. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 20:47:44 -0600 > From: Stephen Hilton > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Slow samba speeds... > To: Noah Markon > Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Message-ID: <4796AAD0.6010109 at hiltonbsd.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Noah Markon wrote: > > Hello! > > > > I've got an issue with my samba server. I have a 1000Mbps network, and > > I get good speeds when I transfer files to the server, about 30MB/s. > > However when I transfer files from my server to my windows client (i > > haven't tested linux->linux) I only get speeds around 6-7MB/s. I get > > faster speeds transferring files to my 100mbps client using SCP, > > around 10MB/s. It's using an built in NIC on a nforce4 motherboard, > > and it's using the forcedeth driver. > > > > Any one got any ideas? Otherwise I'll have to get a new card.. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Noah > > > http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/samba/chapter/book/appb_02.html > > http://us3.samba.org/samba/docs/man/Samba-HOWTO-Collection/speed.html > > http://www.faqs.org/docs/securing/chap29sec287.html > > A change of network card is also a possible answer. > > HTH, > > -Stephen > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 37, Issue 37 > ****************************************** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080124/f829188d/attachment.htm From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com Fri Jan 25 00:22:22 2008 From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 00:22:22 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Install Linux on your Old PowerPC Mac - Topic @PenguinsUnbound Linux Meeting Jan 26, 2008 Message-ID: <4799801E.4020003@Goecke-Dolan.com> This months PenguinsUnbound.net meeting will be this coming Saturday January 26, 2008 at TIES, 1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108 from 10:00 to 12:00. (See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com/Location_for_Meetings for directions and more info.) We will be installing Linux Ubuntu 7.10 (or Xubuntu) on a Power PC Mac. So bring your old Mac (and your questions) and we will install Linux on it! Jima -- you are welcome to bring your "REALLY" old PowerPC (Beige) Macs, and we can try. But I make no guarantees that we can get it working! http://www.penguinsunbound.com/Future_Meetings/20080126 Thanks, hope to see you there. ==>brian. From dniesen at gmail.com Fri Jan 25 11:20:51 2008 From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 11:20:51 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Possible development gig Message-ID: <47f4d5e70801250920y4bdd7822he942622a88735e49@mail.gmail.com> I have a client looking to contract somebody to develop a cross-platform and hardware application that manges monetary transactions. If anybody is interested I can provide his contact information and you can go more into details about scope, requirements, reimbursement, etc. -- Donovan Niesen From aa0p at arrl.net Mon Jan 28 17:58:59 2008 From: aa0p at arrl.net (k0sdh) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 17:58:59 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Video Cards Message-ID: Help for proper video card, What video card do I want for receiving/managing TV on computer? Thanks, Steve, Linux fan but a rank newby -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ From bdunnette at gmail.com Mon Jan 28 20:08:31 2008 From: bdunnette at gmail.com (Brian Dunnette) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:08:31 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Video Cards In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Steve- I've had good luck with Hauppauge cards -- there's a whole list of cards/manufacturers that should work under Linux here: http://linuxtv.org/v4lwiki/index.php/Main_Page -Brian D. On Jan 28, 2008 5:58 PM, k0sdh wrote: > Help for proper video card, > > What video card do I want for receiving/managing TV on computer? > Thanks, > Steve, Linux fan but a rank newby > > -- > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080128/80511815/attachment.htm From cncole at earthlink.net Mon Jan 28 20:22:43 2008 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:22:43 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Video Cards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of k0sdh > > Help for proper video card, > > What video card do I want for receiving/managing TV on computer? > Thanks, > Steve, Linux fan but a rank newby A friend who is deep into receiving and recording TV/video suggested that a TV tuner is not required at all these days. He says I won't even use cable once I learn my way around. I'm still exploring the initial clue he gave me, but here it is: " Take a look at OVGuide. They have links to all the best online video sites. It is great for watching full-length free movies and TV shows. They also have links to the top rated online video game sites. It is all free with no registration required. http://www.OVGuide.com " I have found a few old favorite TV shows and just enough as an intro to want to explore further. He likes the DIVX format and I think he uses that for his DVDs. I think MPEGs and others need to be considered when browsing online collections. Example: I found the old Star Trek tng episode "Darmok" as a DIVX and played it twice for free and on demand, but didn't see how to turn off subtitles in a language that looks like but doesn't seem to be French. Have not found a free version of Blazing Saddles or other movies yet. The OVGuide is a huge portal to explore. Coments anybody? From andyzib at gmail.com Mon Jan 28 20:34:47 2008 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:34:47 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Video Cards In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think OVGuide screams copyright violation. :) -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com From cncole at earthlink.net Mon Jan 28 21:49:49 2008 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 21:49:49 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Video Cards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Zbikowski > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 8:35 PM > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Video Cards > > > I think OVGuide screams copyright violation. :) > It's quite complete, so may have a large variety of stuff. Could be some of that "bad stuff" since it includes stuff like YouTube and others. However, it also includes pay-per-view things including Netflix, etc, so it's just a pretty comprehensive guide. Better "comprehensive" than leaving one to wonder what kinds of stuff is omitted. Your "allergies" may prevent you from going to see all the prairie flowers that are there. :-) Just because there's some poison ivy in the woods somewhere doesn't lead me to go find it or smoke it or whatever. I just spot it and avoid it when following trails that may interest me. YMMV. Chuck From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com Tue Jan 29 14:43:27 2008 From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 14:43:27 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Video Cards In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <479F8FEF.6090009@Goecke-Dolan.com> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Configuring_HDTV This link gives info on what is needed to view HDTV in regards to video card and cpu, along with other info. If you search around on that wiki you will find info about cards to use to capture tv. I am using a pcHDTV HD-5500 http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/PcHDTV_HD-5500 I am pretty happy with that, and it is working well with my myth tv box. But I now need to build a box (and get a hd tv) so I can view the shows on something other than my computer! I also talked about MythTV last year at a Penguins Unbound Meeting, here are the notes. http://www.penguinsunbound.com/Past_Meetings/20071027_MythTV Good Luck. ==>brian. k0sdh wrote: > Help for proper video card, > > What video card do I want for receiving/managing TV on computer? > Thanks, > Steve, Linux fan but a rank newby > > From jpschewe at mtu.net Tue Jan 29 20:32:04 2008 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:32:04 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Question on how to unhold a package in Debian Message-ID: <479FE1A4.2050600@mtu.net> So on my Debian system I used "aptitude hold linux-image-2.6-686" to keep my kernel from accidentally getting upgraded when I didn't plan on rebooting. Now I want to upgrade it, but I still get the message that the package is kept back, even after executing "aptitude unhold linux-image-2.6-686". Can anyone explain to me what I'm doing wrong? This is on Debian etch. -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital signature. See http://www.gnupg.org for more information. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From kc0iog at gmail.com Tue Jan 29 23:24:28 2008 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 23:24:28 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Question on how to unhold a package in Debian In-Reply-To: <479FE1A4.2050600@mtu.net> References: <479FE1A4.2050600@mtu.net> Message-ID: <2c6699da0801292124w179717cat26511322e857fe27@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 29, 2008 8:32 PM, Jon Schewe wrote: > So on my Debian system I used "aptitude hold linux-image-2.6-686" to > keep my kernel from accidentally getting upgraded when I didn't plan on > rebooting. Now I want to upgrade it, but I still get the message that > the package is kept back, even after executing "aptitude unhold > linux-image-2.6-686". Can anyone explain to me what I'm doing wrong? > That should work. When you execute the unhold, does it display that the package is no longer held? You can also try 'aptitude install linux-image-2.6-686', which will upgrade the kernel but retain the hold on the package. Personally, I just don't install a moving target if I don't want my kernels upgraded automatically (such as a server). -Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080129/ac655b71/attachment.htm From jpschewe at mtu.net Wed Jan 30 05:33:32 2008 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 05:33:32 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Question on how to unhold a package in Debian In-Reply-To: <2c6699da0801292124w179717cat26511322e857fe27@mail.gmail.com> References: <479FE1A4.2050600@mtu.net> <2c6699da0801292124w179717cat26511322e857fe27@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47A0608C.5000403@mtu.net> Brian Wall wrote: > On Jan 29, 2008 8:32 PM, Jon Schewe > wrote: > > So on my Debian system I used "aptitude hold linux-image-2.6-686" to > keep my kernel from accidentally getting upgraded when I didn't > plan on > rebooting. Now I want to upgrade it, but I still get the message that > the package is kept back, even after executing "aptitude unhold > linux-image-2.6-686". Can anyone explain to me what I'm doing wrong? > > > That should work. When you execute the unhold, does it display that > the package is no longer held? > Nope. # aptitude unhold ... The following packages have been kept back: kernel-image-2.6-686 libmysqlclient15off linux-image-2.6-686 mysql-client mysql-client-5.0 mysql-common mysql-server mysql-server-5.0 0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 8 not upgraded. Need to get 0B of archives. After unpacking 0B will be used. # aptitude upgrade ... The following packages have been kept back: linux-image-2.6-686 The following packages will be upgraded: kernel-image-2.6-686 libmysqlclient15off mysql-client mysql-client-5.0 mysql-common mysql-server mysql-server-5.0 7 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded. Need to get 25.4MB/34.5MB of archives. After unpacking 61.4kB will be used. Do you want to continue? [Y/n/?] > You can also try 'aptitude install linux-image-2.6-686', which will > upgrade the kernel but retain the hold on the package. Personally, I > just don't install a moving target if I don't want my kernels upgraded > automatically (such as a server). > The problem with not installing the updated kernels is that you are then open for attack from crackers. -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital signature. See http://www.gnupg.org for more information. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From mark.russel.mitchell at gmail.com Wed Jan 30 16:00:20 2008 From: mark.russel.mitchell at gmail.com (Mark Mitchell) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 16:00:20 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] HW Upgrade advice. Message-ID: <4bca4b7c0801301400y4335637agccd63f4b342ebcba@mail.gmail.com> I've decided to use part of my tax return to upgrade my ancient desktop. I started researching, but realized that I haven't been paying attention to the hardware market for quite a while and I'm lost. My current machine; processor : 0 vendor_id : GenuineIntel cpu family : 6 model : 8 model name : Pentium III (Coppermine) stepping : 6 cpu MHz : 930.242 cache size : 256 KB bogomips : 1862.02 with 512M of RAM in two DIMMs of unknown type, and a 3dfx Voodoo video card I also have a P4 machine with a bad MB, slot type unknown. My plan is to buy a MB/CPU and a modern OpenGL compatible video card. I'll reuse my current memory and HDs using the P4's case and PS. I've got a budget of about $200. The machine is a basic desktop, running KDE. The processor-intensive task that I do most often is video re-encoding and very basic video editing. I have a 19" CRT that I may decide to use, so a video card capable of higher resolutions is desired. Please point me in a direction. Thanks Mark From samir.nassar+tclug at steamedpenguin.com Wed Jan 30 16:24:29 2008 From: samir.nassar+tclug at steamedpenguin.com (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 16:24:29 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] HW Upgrade advice. In-Reply-To: <4bca4b7c0801301400y4335637agccd63f4b342ebcba@mail.gmail.com> References: <4bca4b7c0801301400y4335637agccd63f4b342ebcba@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200801301624.29278.samir.nassar+tclug@steamedpenguin.com> On Wednesday 30 January 2008, Mark Mitchell wrote: > I've decided to use part of my tax return to upgrade my ancient > desktop. I started researching, but realized that I haven't been > paying attention to the hardware market for quite a while and I'm > lost. A lot depends on what kind of Pentium 4 you have, that is what socket does your CPU come in. The socket type is probably going to be the biggest factor in determining whether you can upgrade. Unless you are buying used. You might or might not be able to reuse the RAM from your P3 machine, but I would not bet on it. It depends on how modern your RAM is or how old the P4 Motherboard is. -- Samir M. Nassar samir.nassar at steamedpenguin.com From florin at iucha.net Wed Jan 30 16:46:05 2008 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 16:46:05 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] HW Upgrade advice. In-Reply-To: <4bca4b7c0801301400y4335637agccd63f4b342ebcba@mail.gmail.com> References: <4bca4b7c0801301400y4335637agccd63f4b342ebcba@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080130224605.GE15915@iris.iucha.org> On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 04:00:20PM -0600, Mark Mitchell wrote: > I've decided to use part of my tax return to upgrade my ancient > desktop. I started researching, but realized that I haven't been > paying attention to the hardware market for quite a while and I'm > lost. > > My current machine; > processor : 0 > vendor_id : GenuineIntel > cpu family : 6 > model : 8 > model name : Pentium III (Coppermine) > stepping : 6 > cpu MHz : 930.242 > cache size : 256 KB > bogomips : 1862.02 > > with 512M of RAM in two DIMMs of unknown type, and a 3dfx Voodoo video card > > I also have a P4 machine with a bad MB, slot type unknown. > > My plan is to buy a MB/CPU and a modern OpenGL compatible video card. > I'll reuse my current memory and HDs using the P4's case and PS. Mark, Unfortunately you are trying to jump several generations at once, and that won't work. The memory from your PIII is PC100/133. All the current mainstream motherboards use DDR2. Also, it is quite possible that your power supply won't be able to support a modern CPU and fast video card. > I've got a budget of about $200. What would I do with $200: M/B ASUS M2A-VM $70 (has built-in VGA) RAM Whatever 2x1GB $50 CPU AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ $60 For $10 extra you can bump the CPU to 4400+. Save $10 for shipping ;) The motherboard has built-in VGA and DVI - check it out, it might be fast enough for what you need. > The machine is a basic desktop, running KDE. The processor-intensive > task that I do most often is video re-encoding and very basic video > editing. > > I have a 19" CRT that I may decide to use, so a video card capable of > higher resolutions is desired. You'll be hard pressed to buy a video card that won't drive a 19" CRT. Cheers, florin -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20080130/ee950ac3/attachment.pgp From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Jan 30 18:24:16 2008 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 18:24:16 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] HW Upgrade advice. In-Reply-To: <20080130224605.GE15915@iris.iucha.org> References: <4bca4b7c0801301400y4335637agccd63f4b342ebcba@mail.gmail.com> <20080130224605.GE15915@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jan 2008, Florin Iucha wrote: > The memory from your PIII is PC100/133. All the current mainstream > motherboards use DDR2. One interesting point though: You might find that the old PC100/133 RAM is actually worth more than the new RAM. That's what I was finding that when I tried to buy some old RAM for an old PC last summer. So if it doesn't work, you might be able to sell it to buy even more new memory. Mike