From gscottwalters at gmail.com  Mon Oct  1 12:53:31 2007
From: gscottwalters at gmail.com (G. Scott Walters)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 12:53:31 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Zonbu
Message-ID: <34b4c76d0710011053r5a8ea821xdc990506fa2c6b0b@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone ever heard of Zonbu?

Looks to be a low-cost hardware solution that packages some of the more
popular open-source, linux-based software packages and changes a monthly fee
to support it. Hardware specs are interesting:


   - Intel-compatible ultra-low power CPU
   - 512 MB RAM + 4GB flash-based local storage
   - Graphics up to 2048 x 1536 (16 million colors, 75 Hz). Hardware
   graphics and MPEG2 acceleration
   - PC-compatible ports for keyboard and mouse
   - 6 USB ports to plug-and-play all standard USB accessories
   - Broadband ready: 10/100 Mbps Ethernet built-in

This device was profiled in Forbes, and I've had a couple people ask me
about it. Here's the appropriate links:

http://members.forbes.com/forbes/2007/1015/056.html

http://www.zonbu.com/home/index.htm




-- 
-
G. Scott Walters
http://www.apt518.net
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From cdf123 at cdf123.net  Mon Oct  1 14:09:36 2007
From: cdf123 at cdf123.net (Chris Frederick)
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 14:09:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Zonbu
In-Reply-To: <34b4c76d0710011053r5a8ea821xdc990506fa2c6b0b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34b4c76d0710011053r5a8ea821xdc990506fa2c6b0b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <470145F0.6030301@cdf123.net>

G. Scott Walters wrote:
> Anyone ever heard of Zonbu?

Not me.

> Looks to be a low-cost hardware solution that packages some of the more
> popular open-source, linux-based software packages and changes a monthly fee
> to support it. Hardware specs are interesting:
> 
> <snipped>
> 
> This device was profiled in Forbes, and I've had a couple people ask me
> about it. Here's the appropriate links:
> 
> http://members.forbes.com/forbes/2007/1015/056.html
> 
> http://www.zonbu.com/home/index.htm

Looks interesting.  I've been looking at small form factor PCs for a
while.  They look very similar to these:

http://logisysus.com/product/smallest-pc.htm


From tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com  Mon Oct  1 14:32:48 2007
From: tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com (Robert De Mars)
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 14:32:48 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Webmail recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <E1Ic25g-00087t-As@fireagate.fireopal.org>
References: <E1Ic25g-00087t-As@fireagate.fireopal.org>
Message-ID: <47014B60.50603@b-o-b.homelinux.com>

I have been using SQwebmail for years & like it alot.

http://www.courier-mta.org/sqwebmail/

Uses Maildir's though.

Good Luck!

Bob

Scott Raun wrote:
> I'm currently using NeoMail connecting to local POP3 mailboxes, when I'm
> not using Mutt (I VASTLY prefer using Mutt!).  I'm being forced to use
> the webmail if I want to read mail from work - they've blocked ssh &
> telnet from reaching the outside world.  I'm running into some ...
> limitations of NeoMail - it doesn't thread, it doesn't have a mass 'mark
> read' function that I can find.
> 
> So, what's your favorite 'install on my Linux box' webmail package?  As
> I said, I'm currently using POP3, but could be convinced to change to
> IMAP.  I'm currently running a Debian box - I can't get at it right this
> moment to tell if it's etch or lenny.  Requirements are some degree of
> threading (preferably using the reply-to-message-id, but I'll take by
> subject), and mass action (at least mark read and move to another
> folder).  I'd like something that used mboxes.
> 
> Note: use gmail/your web-mail provider of choice is NOT an option - I
> want my e-mail on my storage, not someone else's!
> 



From strayf at freeshell.org  Mon Oct  1 20:03:36 2007
From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steve Cayford)
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 20:03:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Zonbu
In-Reply-To: <470145F0.6030301@cdf123.net>
References: <34b4c76d0710011053r5a8ea821xdc990506fa2c6b0b@mail.gmail.com>
	<470145F0.6030301@cdf123.net>
Message-ID: <470198E8.8050205@freeshell.org>

Chris Frederick wrote:
> G. Scott Walters wrote:
>> Anyone ever heard of Zonbu?
> [...]

> Looks interesting.  I've been looking at small form factor PCs for a
> while.  They look very similar to these:
> 
> http://logisysus.com/product/smallest-pc.htm
> 
>>From the Zonbu site:
> 
> Zonbu Desktop, Standard plan, Billing every two years = $412.95
> 
> Thats standard options after all discounts, plus $358.80 after two years
> for more support.  Also, their "Cancel anytime policy" warns that if you
> cancel the membership service, your device will not give you access to
> your data after 3 months.  They do have a free/no support option, but
> I'd probably want to talk to a sales person before I went with that.
> 
> I guess it depends on what their support covers, but I don't see much
> there that strikes me as worth $180 a year.
> 
>>From their site:
> 
> Disaster proof storage - Very doable and cheap.
> Free automatic software upgrades - Most linux distros have this.
> Unlimited Internet support - You are reading this on a mailing list.  ;-)
> Remote file access "anywhere, anytime, any browser (no plugins)" - That
> just sounds scary to me.
> Overnight free hardware replacement limited warranty - Nice, but that's
> an extra $60 a year.
> 
> My $0.02 would be that everything looks nice, but personally I'd rather
> pay more up front for something without a huge service contract, or
> required membership service.
> 
> ymmv,
> Chris Frederick

It seems to me that there could be a pretty good market for something
like this. Not for us on this list, but for the proverbial "my
grandmother." Folks who want a web browser, email, office suite, and
some basic games and who don't want to deal with updates, spyware,
system administration, etc. Considering how much people spend on
services like Geek Squad the rates don't seem too outrageous.

-Steve


From sraun at fireopal.org  Mon Oct  1 20:03:33 2007
From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 20:03:33 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Webmail recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <20071001015215.GG50703@therub.org>
References: <E1Ic7Yt-0000fY-Fe@fireagate.fireopal.org>
	<20071001015215.GG50703@therub.org>
Message-ID: <20071002010333.GD28524@fireopal.org>

On Sun, Sep 30, 2007 at 08:52:15PM -0500, Dan Rue wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2007 at 05:46:55PM -0500, Scott Raun wrote:
> > Brian Dunnette replied:
> > > Why not just install a web-based terminal (like ajaxterm --
> > > http://antony.lesuisse.org/qweb/trac/wiki/AjaxTerm), and continue 
> > > using Mutt?
> > 
> > Because I didn't know about AjaxTerm (or any equivalents) before?  I
> > _like_ that idea - I'll check it out!  And there are even Debian
> > packages for it!
> 
> Why not just run SSH on an allowed port (maybe you're not already using
> 443?)

I'm going to give that a try first - depending on exactly how they're
handling SSL through the firewall, I'm told it might work.  The more I
consider it, the more dubious I get - SSL goes through a proxy that
has its own certificates and does man-in-the-middle stuff.

> Also - fwiw, I'm planning on switching from squirrelmail to roundcube
> PDQ.

Thanks for the recommendation!

-- 
Scott Raun
sraun at fireopal.org


From josh at joshwelch.com  Tue Oct  2 07:27:37 2007
From: josh at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:27:37 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Zonbu
In-Reply-To: <470145F0.6030301@cdf123.net>
References: <34b4c76d0710011053r5a8ea821xdc990506fa2c6b0b@mail.gmail.com>
	<470145F0.6030301@cdf123.net>
Message-ID: <20071002122737.3zr8o4qio0coo84o@joshwelch.com>

Quoting Chris Frederick <cdf123 at cdf123.net>:

> G. Scott Walters wrote:
>> Anyone ever heard of Zonbu?
>
> Not me.
>
>> Looks to be a low-cost hardware solution that packages some of the more
>> popular open-source, linux-based software packages and changes a monthly fee
>> to support it. Hardware specs are interesting:
>>
>> <snipped>
>>
>> This device was profiled in Forbes, and I've had a couple people ask me
>> about it. Here's the appropriate links:
>>
>> http://members.forbes.com/forbes/2007/1015/056.html
>>
>> http://www.zonbu.com/home/index.htm
>
> Looks interesting.  I've been looking at small form factor PCs for a
> while.  They look very similar to these:
>
> http://logisysus.com/product/smallest-pc.htm
>
>> From the Zonbu site:
>
> Zonbu Desktop, Standard plan, Billing every two years = $412.95
>
> Thats standard options after all discounts, plus $358.80 after two years
> for more support.  Also, their "Cancel anytime policy" warns that if you
> cancel the membership service, your device will not give you access to
> your data after 3 months.  They do have a free/no support option, but
> I'd probably want to talk to a sales person before I went with that.
>
> I guess it depends on what their support covers, but I don't see much
> there that strikes me as worth $180 a year.
>
>> From their site:
>
> Disaster proof storage - Very doable and cheap.
> Free automatic software upgrades - Most linux distros have this.
> Unlimited Internet support - You are reading this on a mailing list.  ;-)
> Remote file access "anywhere, anytime, any browser (no plugins)" - That
> just sounds scary to me.
> Overnight free hardware replacement limited warranty - Nice, but that's
> an extra $60 a year.
>
> My $0.02 would be that everything looks nice, but personally I'd rather
> pay more up front for something without a huge service contract, or
> required membership service.
>
> ymmv,
> Chris Frederick
>
I'm guessing that the questions about  this device aren't coming from  
the technically savvy folks. This looks to be pretty much a managed PC  
service, a concept which I am a huge fan of for most users. Most users  
run Windows. They have a tendency to not run Windows Updates, to not  
have a firewall and to click on shiny executables that get emailed to  
them. When MS tries to change the defaults to their OS to make it more  
secure they do it poorly and it becomes such a pain that folks just  
turn the security features off.
Now here we have a Linux based device, ships with auto updates enabled  
(and hopefully the users can't turn them off), probably a sane set of  
firewall rules that enables productivity while keeping the threat  
profile down and a native resistance to all the Windows based malware.
You can make lots of arguments about why these aren't going to be  
successful, the inability to click on those shiny executables may be  
one of them, but I love the concept. I wouldn't buy one, but I like  
taking things apart and making them work. That's part of the fun of  
computing for me (and most of you reading this I assume). For most  
people, however, they couldn't care less. A computer is just another  
appliance that they use to do certain things and they are way too  
complicated considering the simplicity of most of the tasks they want  
to do. I think that a business model like this will take off  
eventually as computers get more ubiquitous and there gets to be a  
tipping point of non-technical folks with computers. Of course, that  
could just be the business classes going to my head.

Josh


----------------------------------------------------------------
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From slushpupie at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 08:37:37 2007
From: slushpupie at gmail.com (slushpupie at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 08:37:37 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Webmail recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <E1Ic25g-00087t-As@fireagate.fireopal.org>
References: <E1Ic25g-00087t-As@fireagate.fireopal.org>
Message-ID: <ace41e70710020637y2fefda7xdb633e15237bf0a@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/30/07, Scott Raun <sraun at fireopal.org> wrote:
> So, what's your favorite 'install on my Linux box' webmail package?

I was always disapointed at how bloated squirrelmail has gotten, and
started using a lighter weight solution called Hastymail
(http://hastymail.sf.net) After some time, I even became one of the
developers for the project.  IMAP only, but if you install dovecot you
can use Maildir or mbox with both imap and pop3 (debian packages are
easy to set up too)

Hastymail also has a simplified interface for use on cell phones/pda's
with smaller screens, which has been handy for me.


-- 
Jay Kline
http://www.slushpupie.com/


From j at packetgod.com  Tue Oct  2 09:09:04 2007
From: j at packetgod.com (J)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 09:09:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Zonbu
In-Reply-To: <470198E8.8050205@freeshell.org>
References: <34b4c76d0710011053r5a8ea821xdc990506fa2c6b0b@mail.gmail.com>	<470145F0.6030301@cdf123.net>
	<470198E8.8050205@freeshell.org>
Message-ID: <47025100.2060401@packetgod.com>

I'm tempted to hit this for their "249$ without service plan" and wipe 
it clean with my own distro.  They must be using commodity hardware and 
many of those SFF PC cases start at 100$ for something 10 times the 
size.  Small ones like the Zonbu are generally even more just for the 
case.  So a complete Linux friendly SFF quiet environmentally friendly 
PC for 249$, while a bit light on the specs I wouldn't mind running a 
little home web/e-mail/SSH server off of it or perhaps just a mythfrontend?

I think I'll do it, buy it and see if I can load my own distro by hook 
or by crook.  I'm hoping by crook as I haven't had a good project for a 
while.

--j

Steve Cayford wrote:
> Chris Frederick wrote:
>   
>> G. Scott Walters wrote:
>>     
>>> Anyone ever heard of Zonbu?
>>>       
>> [...]
>>     
>
>   
>> Looks interesting.  I've been looking at small form factor PCs for a
>> while.  They look very similar to these:
>>
>> http://logisysus.com/product/smallest-pc.htm
>>
>> >From the Zonbu site:
>>
>> Zonbu Desktop, Standard plan, Billing every two years = $412.95
>>
>> Thats standard options after all discounts, plus $358.80 after two years
>> for more support.  Also, their "Cancel anytime policy" warns that if you
>> cancel the membership service, your device will not give you access to
>> your data after 3 months.  They do have a free/no support option, but
>> I'd probably want to talk to a sales person before I went with that.
>>
>> I guess it depends on what their support covers, but I don't see much
>> there that strikes me as worth $180 a year.
>>
>> >From their site:
>>
>> Disaster proof storage - Very doable and cheap.
>> Free automatic software upgrades - Most linux distros have this.
>> Unlimited Internet support - You are reading this on a mailing list.  ;-)
>> Remote file access "anywhere, anytime, any browser (no plugins)" - That
>> just sounds scary to me.
>> Overnight free hardware replacement limited warranty - Nice, but that's
>> an extra $60 a year.
>>
>> My $0.02 would be that everything looks nice, but personally I'd rather
>> pay more up front for something without a huge service contract, or
>> required membership service.
>>
>> ymmv,
>> Chris Frederick
>>     
>
> It seems to me that there could be a pretty good market for something
> like this. Not for us on this list, but for the proverbial "my
> grandmother." Folks who want a web browser, email, office suite, and
> some basic games and who don't want to deal with updates, spyware,
> system administration, etc. Considering how much people spend on
> services like Geek Squad the rates don't seem too outrageous.
>
> -Steve
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   


From jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org  Tue Oct  2 13:23:20 2007
From: jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org (Joseph Key)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 13:23:20 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Webmail recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <20071002010333.GD28524@fireopal.org>
References: <E1Ic7Yt-0000fY-Fe@fireagate.fireopal.org>	<20071001015215.GG50703@therub.org>
	<20071002010333.GD28524@fireopal.org>
Message-ID: <47028C98.4060605@tomobiki.dyndns.org>

Scott Raun wrote:
> I'm going to give that a try first - depending on exactly how they're
> handling SSL through the firewall, I'm told it might work.  The more I
> consider it, the more dubious I get - SSL goes through a proxy that
> has its own certificates and does man-in-the-middle stuff.


I've been accessing my home using putty to a free shell account. Then forwarding a second putty through the first ssh to my home. The first putty goes through a proxy that limits 
the ports I can connect to. So the free shell account is one that has a port 443 ssh server. I then tunnel ssh thru the free shell account to my home. I can then uses tunnels on 
the second ssh session to connect to services and machines in my home network.

Joseph



From florin at iucha.net  Tue Oct  2 13:56:36 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 13:56:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit and separate wifi network?
Message-ID: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net>

Hello,

I'm looking for a "one size fits all" router for my home network.  I
need something that can firewall between the four zones: WAN, DMZ,
local and Wi-Fi.  I heard that WRT54g* can do it, but I had problems
when plugging it into my gigabit switch - it seemed to increase the
latency of pings and data transfers.

Anyway, I see that Linksys has something that might fit the bill:
WRVS4400N [1].  Has anybody played with it?  Pros?  Cons?  Any
similar devices out there?

Yes, I know that I can build my firewall from a 486 and four NICs, but
I'd rather not have the big box and the extra power consumption.  I
know about soekris but the motherboard alone is more expensive than
the Linksys.  The routerboard guys might have a more affordable combo
(RB/153 + 18POW + CA/153 + R52 + AC/SWI= 119 + 9 + 19 + 49 + 15 = $211)
but that still means that I need a separate gigabit switch.

Thanks,
florin

[1] http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayout&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper&cid=1154659754557

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From jwo at umn.edu  Tue Oct  2 14:17:59 2007
From: jwo at umn.edu (Jonathan Osborne)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:17:59 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit and separate wifi
	network?
In-Reply-To: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <47029967.7070008@umn.edu>

Looks like an interesting product, but it's gotten some very mixed 
reviews on amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Linksys-WRVS4400N-Wireless-N-Gigabit-Security/dp/B000H97UC0


Jonathan Osborne
WHRE Tech Coordinator
p: 612.624.1217
e: jwo at umn.edu

Florin Iucha said the following on 10/02/2007 13.56
> Hello,
> 
> I'm looking for a "one size fits all" router for my home network.  I
> need something that can firewall between the four zones: WAN, DMZ,
> local and Wi-Fi.  I heard that WRT54g* can do it, but I had problems
> when plugging it into my gigabit switch - it seemed to increase the
> latency of pings and data transfers.
> 
> Anyway, I see that Linksys has something that might fit the bill:
> WRVS4400N [1].  Has anybody played with it?  Pros?  Cons?  Any
> similar devices out there?
> 
> Yes, I know that I can build my firewall from a 486 and four NICs, but
> I'd rather not have the big box and the extra power consumption.  I
> know about soekris but the motherboard alone is more expensive than
> the Linksys.  The routerboard guys might have a more affordable combo
> (RB/153 + 18POW + CA/153 + R52 + AC/SWI= 119 + 9 + 19 + 49 + 15 = $211)
> but that still means that I need a separate gigabit switch.
> 
> Thanks,
> florin
> 
> [1] http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayout&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper&cid=1154659754557


From j at packetgod.com  Tue Oct  2 14:20:20 2007
From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 14:20:20 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Zonbu
In-Reply-To: <47025100.2060401@packetgod.com>
References: <34b4c76d0710011053r5a8ea821xdc990506fa2c6b0b@mail.gmail.com>
	<470145F0.6030301@cdf123.net> <470198E8.8050205@freeshell.org>
	<47025100.2060401@packetgod.com>
Message-ID: <38aa5b6a0710021220i499efe75wac3636fd6a927d7f@mail.gmail.com>

So I e-mailed Zonbu and got a quick response, I think this may be the exact
platform I've been looking for to use for a small quiet Mythfrontend
system.  I'll have to figure out some sort of USB remote, and my TV does
actually have a VGA input so I should be good there.  My other options were
a repurposed MacMini, a shuttle  SD02 for 499$ (without memory, HD,
Processor, etc but with a remote port).

This is the response from Zonbu:

"Yes, you are free to do as you wish with the Zonbu hardware. While we do
not and cannot officially support running alternate OSes on the Zonbu
hardware, several users have reported successfully installing other OSes (
e.g. Ubuntu Linux) on the hardware without any problems"

Hey, thanks much TCLUG for putting me onto this.

--j

On 10/2/07, J <j at packetgod.com> wrote:
>
> I'm tempted to hit this for their "249$ without service plan" and wipe
> it clean with my own distro.  They must be using commodity hardware and
> many of those SFF PC cases start at 100$ for something 10 times the
> size.  Small ones like the Zonbu are generally even more just for the
> case.  So a complete Linux friendly SFF quiet environmentally friendly
> PC for 249$, while a bit light on the specs I wouldn't mind running a
> little home web/e-mail/SSH server off of it or perhaps just a
> mythfrontend?
>
> I think I'll do it, buy it and see if I can load my own distro by hook
> or by crook.  I'm hoping by crook as I haven't had a good project for a
> while.
>
> --j
>
> Steve Cayford wrote:
> > Chris Frederick wrote:
> >
> >> G. Scott Walters wrote:
> >>
> >>> Anyone ever heard of Zonbu?
> >>>
> >> [...]
> >>
> >
> >
> >> Looks interesting.  I've been looking at small form factor PCs for a
> >> while.  They look very similar to these:
> >>
> >> http://logisysus.com/product/smallest-pc.htm
> >>
> >> >From the Zonbu site:
> >>
> >> Zonbu Desktop, Standard plan, Billing every two years = $412.95
> >>
> >> Thats standard options after all discounts, plus $358.80 after two
> years
> >> for more support.  Also, their "Cancel anytime policy" warns that if
> you
> >> cancel the membership service, your device will not give you access to
> >> your data after 3 months.  They do have a free/no support option, but
> >> I'd probably want to talk to a sales person before I went with that.
> >>
> >> I guess it depends on what their support covers, but I don't see much
> >> there that strikes me as worth $180 a year.
> >>
> >> >From their site:
> >>
> >> Disaster proof storage - Very doable and cheap.
> >> Free automatic software upgrades - Most linux distros have this.
> >> Unlimited Internet support - You are reading this on a mailing
> list.  ;-)
> >> Remote file access "anywhere, anytime, any browser (no plugins)" - That
> >> just sounds scary to me.
> >> Overnight free hardware replacement limited warranty - Nice, but that's
> >> an extra $60 a year.
> >>
> >> My $0.02 would be that everything looks nice, but personally I'd rather
> >> pay more up front for something without a huge service contract, or
> >> required membership service.
> >>
> >> ymmv,
> >> Chris Frederick
> >>
> >
> > It seems to me that there could be a pretty good market for something
> > like this. Not for us on this list, but for the proverbial "my
> > grandmother." Folks who want a web browser, email, office suite, and
> > some basic games and who don't want to deal with updates, spyware,
> > system administration, etc. Considering how much people spend on
> > services like Geek Squad the rates don't seem too outrageous.
> >
> > -Steve
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From florin at iucha.net  Tue Oct  2 14:35:44 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 14:35:44 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit and separate
	wifi	network?
In-Reply-To: <47029967.7070008@umn.edu>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <47029967.7070008@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20071002193544.GQ8174@iucha.net>

On Tue, Oct 02, 2007 at 02:17:59PM -0500, Jonathan Osborne wrote:
> Looks like an interesting product, but it's gotten some very mixed 
> reviews on amazon:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Linksys-WRVS4400N-Wireless-N-Gigabit-Security/dp/B000H97UC0

Hrm... it looks quite bad.  Also, from reading the user manual, it seems
that it does not have the strict separation between wired and wireless
networks.

florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From auditodd at comcast.net  Tue Oct  2 14:51:22 2007
From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 19:51:22 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit and separate wifi
	network?
Message-ID: <100220071951.25657.4702A13A000DEFB10000643922028887440B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net>

Stupid Comcast web email won't populate your previous message.....

Anyway, I think you would be better off going the PC route.
Smoothwall v3.0 will support you just fine, and you can always yank a micro-ATX board out of a large case and drop it into something smaller.

I'm using this case for my Smoothwall with an old HP VL400 motherboard inside:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811190005

1Gig processor with 512Meg of RAM and an on-board 3Com NIC with two extra 3Com NICs.
Internal, external, and DMZ. Works great.

I use a Netgear wireless router set up as an access point (static IP, DHCP turned off) for wireless.

--
==========
Todd Young


From sss.lists at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 17:03:24 2007
From: sss.lists at gmail.com (Subramanya Sastry)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 17:03:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] [Off-Topic?] recovering data from a hard drive with
	mechanical failure
Message-ID: <3f6d716b0710021503o17503c9cje4ec8cf67f8e9e94@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks,

I just had the misfortune of having my hard drive crash on me ... it seems
like a mechanical failure ... horrible clicking noises ...

There is some data on there that I haven't backed up recently, plus, I had
used this drive as a backup for data on some other hard drive ... while this
is not catastrophic data loss, I was wondering if folks had any suggestions
for recovering data in the face of mechanical failure ... or what it might
cost if I paid some service for data recovery in the twin cities.

It is a ext3 file system .. though not sure that matters ...

Thanks,
Subbu.
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From stuff at cb1inc.com  Tue Oct  2 17:16:53 2007
From: stuff at cb1inc.com (Chris Barber)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:16:53 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] [Off-Topic?] recovering data from a hard drive
 with mechanical failure
In-Reply-To: <3f6d716b0710021503o17503c9cje4ec8cf67f8e9e94@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3f6d716b0710021503o17503c9cje4ec8cf67f8e9e94@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4702C355.5050104@cb1inc.com>

Lucky for you Kroll Ontrack is located in Eden Prairie and they are data
recovery specialists.  Not lucky for you because they are not cheap. 
Last time I heard they charge based on the amount of data they recover. 
In the event of a hardware failure, one of their strategies is to track
down the same drive model and swap the mechanical components.

There web address is: http://www.ontrackdatarecovery.com.  If you do use
them, I'd be curious how they are?  Expensive?  Accurately?  Timely?

-Chris


Subramanya Sastry wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I just had the misfortune of having my hard drive crash on me ... it
> seems like a mechanical failure ... horrible clicking noises ...
>
> There is some data on there that I haven't backed up recently, plus, I
> had used this drive as a backup for data on some other hard drive ...
> while this is not catastrophic data loss, I was wondering if folks had
> any suggestions for recovering data in the face of mechanical failure
> ... or what it might cost if I paid some service for data recovery in
> the twin cities.
>
> It is a ext3 file system .. though not sure that matters ...
>
> Thanks,
> Subbu.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   
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From sss.lists at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 17:31:11 2007
From: sss.lists at gmail.com (Subramanya Sastry)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 17:31:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] [Off-Topic?] recovering data from a hard drive
	with mechanical failure
In-Reply-To: <4702C355.5050104@cb1inc.com>
References: <3f6d716b0710021503o17503c9cje4ec8cf67f8e9e94@mail.gmail.com>
	<4702C355.5050104@cb1inc.com>
Message-ID: <3f6d716b0710021531r384f2a88mccb7d5a22b66ebf5@mail.gmail.com>

I called them a few minutes back.  They charge $100 for evaluation and then
give me a list of all files and folders that they recover ... I was told
that the mechanical failure recovery costs anywhere between $900 - $1900 ...
So, I decided it is not worth it.

Thanks for the tip regarding swapping mechanical components ... I wonder how
hard/easy that is ... I might be willing to give it a try if I could lay my
hand on a spare drive ..

Subbu.

On 10/2/07, Chris Barber <stuff at cb1inc.com> wrote:
>
>  Lucky for you Kroll Ontrack is located in Eden Prairie and they are data
> recovery specialists.  Not lucky for you because they are not cheap.  Last
> time I heard they charge based on the amount of data they recover.  In the
> event of a hardware failure, one of their strategies is to track down the
> same drive model and swap the mechanical components.
>
> There web address is: http://www.ontrackdatarecovery.com.  If you do use
> them, I'd be curious how they are?  Expensive?  Accurately?  Timely?
>
> -Chris
>
>
> Subramanya Sastry wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I just had the misfortune of having my hard drive crash on me ... it seems
> like a mechanical failure ... horrible clicking noises ...
>
> There is some data on there that I haven't backed up recently, plus, I had
> used this drive as a backup for data on some other hard drive ... while this
> is not catastrophic data loss, I was wondering if folks had any suggestions
> for recovering data in the face of mechanical failure ... or what it might
> cost if I paid some service for data recovery in the twin cities.
>
> It is a ext3 file system .. though not sure that matters ...
>
> Thanks,
> Subbu.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From christophermsmith at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 17:36:47 2007
From: christophermsmith at gmail.com (Chris Smith)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 17:36:47 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] [Off-Topic?] recovering data from a hard drive
	with mechanical failure
In-Reply-To: <3f6d716b0710021503o17503c9cje4ec8cf67f8e9e94@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3f6d716b0710021503o17503c9cje4ec8cf67f8e9e94@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5bab831e0710021536n66bd083ey1bd3c89138b243d8@mail.gmail.com>

Ontrack's software is pretty good, but I had a user whos laptop was
formatted and then reinstalled with XP who didn't keep his files on the
server as he was supposed to. The user noticed immeadiately. (hey where did
my unsupported and non-backed up Goldmine CRM go?) My company spent 1500
dollars and Ontrack was unable to recover anything that Ontrack's "Easy
Recovery Pro" couldn't. Then again this wasn't a hardware failure so that
may be very different.

Best of luck,

Chris



On 10/2/07, Subramanya Sastry <sss.lists at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I just had the misfortune of having my hard drive crash on me ... it seems
> like a mechanical failure ... horrible clicking noises ...
>
> There is some data on there that I haven't backed up recently, plus, I had
> used this drive as a backup for data on some other hard drive ... while this
> is not catastrophic data loss, I was wondering if folks had any suggestions
> for recovering data in the face of mechanical failure ... or what it might
> cost if I paid some service for data recovery in the twin cities.
>
> It is a ext3 file system .. though not sure that matters ...
>
> Thanks,
> Subbu.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>


-- 
"The gun... insures that the people are the equal of their government
whenever that government forgets that it is servant and not master of the
governed."

Ronald Reagan
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From tclug at beitsahour.net  Tue Oct  2 16:50:20 2007
From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:50:20 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit and separate wifi
	network?
In-Reply-To: <20071002193544.GQ8174@iucha.net>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <47029967.7070008@umn.edu>
	<20071002193544.GQ8174@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <fa17c9630710021450w5afcb578gf8f13a52d91e60d3@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/2/07, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 02, 2007 at 02:17:59PM -0500, Jonathan Osborne wrote:
> > Looks like an interesting product, but it's gotten some very mixed
> > reviews on amazon:
> >
> > http://www.amazon.com/Linksys-WRVS4400N-Wireless-N-Gigabit-Security/dp/B000H97UC0
>
> Hrm... it looks quite bad.  Also, from reading the user manual, it seems
> that it does not have the strict separation between wired and wireless
> networks.

for what you want to do you need a real router, not some garbage
consumer product. So find yourself a small case, mobo and some GigE
network cards that fit in there.

There are several wireless chipsets out there that support master
mode, get a card with one of those chipsets. (i prefer the hostap
hards, but they only support 802.11b)

i myself have a system with 4 network cards, 3 wired and a wireless,
works great for me, does all i need and then some, is it ugly? yes but
it is ugly in some corner where not even my girlfriend can complain
about it. sitting there quietly (for the most part, the K6 has a
tendency to overheat and beep at me every once in a while) passing
bits back and force.

It does have very strict separation between the network cards, but
when i want or need to i can let the wireless network ssh to a box on
the dmz. or if i need a public address when bittorrenting i can give
one of those to my laptop on my wireless network. No port forwarding
here!

very flexible, very cheap, very linux.

ps, we have not had a meeting in a while, i've been thinking of giving
a presentation on iptables, anyone interested?


From florin at iucha.net  Tue Oct  2 18:04:42 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 18:04:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit and separate
	wifi	network?
In-Reply-To: <fa17c9630710021450w5afcb578gf8f13a52d91e60d3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <47029967.7070008@umn.edu>
	<20071002193544.GQ8174@iucha.net>
	<fa17c9630710021450w5afcb578gf8f13a52d91e60d3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071002230442.GX8174@iucha.net>

On Tue, Oct 02, 2007 at 04:50:20PM -0500, Munir Nassar wrote:
> ps, we have not had a meeting in a while, i've been thinking of giving
> a presentation on iptables, anyone interested?

Yes, but _AFTER_ you do the presentation on OpenVPN that you promised
us a few months ago.

florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From thecubic at thecubic.net  Tue Oct  2 18:12:38 2007
From: thecubic at thecubic.net (Dave Carlson)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 18:12:38 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] [Off-Topic?] recovering data from a hard drive
 with mechanical failure
In-Reply-To: <3f6d716b0710021503o17503c9cje4ec8cf67f8e9e94@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3f6d716b0710021503o17503c9cje4ec8cf67f8e9e94@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <28011.163.231.6.85.1191366758.squirrel@castor.thecubic.net>

If you toss it in the freezer for a while (protect it from moisture...),
you may be able to get some data off of it.  There are some HOWTOs about
that on the web.  I would run a USB and power cable inside the freezer and
use a laptop to get the data off.

-Dave

> Hi folks,
>
> I just had the misfortune of having my hard drive crash on me ... it seems
> like a mechanical failure ... horrible clicking noises ...
>
> There is some data on there that I haven't backed up recently, plus, I had
> used this drive as a backup for data on some other hard drive ... while
> this
> is not catastrophic data loss, I was wondering if folks had any
> suggestions
> for recovering data in the face of mechanical failure ... or what it might
> cost if I paid some service for data recovery in the twin cities.
>
> It is a ext3 file system .. though not sure that matters ...
>
> Thanks,
> Subbu.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dave Carlson <thecubic at thecubic.net>


From florin at iucha.net  Tue Oct  2 18:12:11 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 18:12:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit and separate
	wifi	network?
In-Reply-To: <fa17c9630710021450w5afcb578gf8f13a52d91e60d3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <47029967.7070008@umn.edu>
	<20071002193544.GQ8174@iucha.net>
	<fa17c9630710021450w5afcb578gf8f13a52d91e60d3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071002231211.GY8174@iucha.net>

On Tue, Oct 02, 2007 at 04:50:20PM -0500, Munir Nassar wrote:
> > Hrm... it looks quite bad.  Also, from reading the user manual, it seems
> > that it does not have the strict separation between wired and wireless
> > networks.
> 
> for what you want to do you need a real router, not some garbage
> consumer product. So find yourself a small case, mobo and some GigE
> network cards that fit in there.

Nobody reads my whole message.  I want a real router, but not a
REAL R*O*U*T*E*R.  I just want the smallest physical and power-wise
box that will do wifi/lan/dmz/wan firewall separations.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From andyzib at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 19:06:56 2007
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 19:06:56 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit and separate wifi
	network?
In-Reply-To: <20071002231211.GY8174@iucha.net>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <47029967.7070008@umn.edu>
	<20071002193544.GQ8174@iucha.net>
	<fa17c9630710021450w5afcb578gf8f13a52d91e60d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071002231211.GY8174@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <e3a54b020710021706n1535d896yea574f089983b9aa@mail.gmail.com>

Have you looked into Firebox, Astro, or similar devices that occupy
the space between Linksys and Cisco...

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
0 rows returned


From trnja001 at umn.edu  Tue Oct  2 19:05:55 2007
From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 19:05:55 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit and
	separate	wifi	network?
In-Reply-To: <20071002230442.GX8174@iucha.net>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net>
	<47029967.7070008@umn.edu>	<20071002193544.GQ8174@iucha.net>	<fa17c9630710021450w5afcb578gf8f13a52d91e60d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071002230442.GX8174@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <4702DCE3.805@umn.edu>

Florin Iucha wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 02, 2007 at 04:50:20PM -0500, Munir Nassar wrote:
>   
>> ps, we have not had a meeting in a while, i've been thinking of giving
>> a presentation on iptables, anyone interested?
>>     
>
> Yes, but _AFTER_ you do the presentation on OpenVPN that you promised
> us a few months ago.
>
> florin
>
>
>   

Count me in for iptables and OpenVPN, just don't make the meeting on a 
Wednesday night.


From christophermsmith at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 19:22:43 2007
From: christophermsmith at gmail.com (Chris Smith)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 19:22:43 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit and separate wifi
	network?
In-Reply-To: <4702DCE3.805@umn.edu>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <47029967.7070008@umn.edu>
	<20071002193544.GQ8174@iucha.net>
	<fa17c9630710021450w5afcb578gf8f13a52d91e60d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071002230442.GX8174@iucha.net> <4702DCE3.805@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <5bab831e0710021722y625dafag5d53bd55b6c97988@mail.gmail.com>

I haven't followed this thread, but I used to work for
www.apigroupinc.comand they kept well over 150 offices connected with
OpenVPN and Shorewall..
both probably the most impressive OSF software I've had the opportunity  to
use.  Today I use it for roadwarriors at my new company..  good stuff.


On 10/2/07, Elvedin Trnjanin <trnja001 at umn.edu> wrote:
>
> Florin Iucha wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 02, 2007 at 04:50:20PM -0500, Munir Nassar wrote:
> >
> >> ps, we have not had a meeting in a while, i've been thinking of giving
> >> a presentation on iptables, anyone interested?
> >>
> >
> > Yes, but _AFTER_ you do the presentation on OpenVPN that you promised
> > us a few months ago.
> >
> > florin
> >
> >
> >
>
> Count me in for iptables and OpenVPN, just don't make the meeting on a
> Wednesday night.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



-- 
"The gun... insures that the people are the equal of their government
whenever that government forgets that it is servant and not master of the
governed."

Ronald Reagan
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From tclug at natecarlson.com  Tue Oct  2 20:11:42 2007
From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 20:11:42 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit and separate wifi
 network?
In-Reply-To: <20071002231211.GY8174@iucha.net>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <47029967.7070008@umn.edu>
	<20071002193544.GQ8174@iucha.net>
	<fa17c9630710021450w5afcb578gf8f13a52d91e60d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071002231211.GY8174@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0710022011330.7523@iron.msp.technicality.org>

On Tue, 2 Oct 2007, Florin Iucha wrote:
> Nobody reads my whole message.  I want a real router, but not a REAL 
> R*O*U*T*E*R.  I just want the smallest physical and power-wise box that 
> will do wifi/lan/dmz/wan firewall separations.

Get something that you can run dd-wrt on?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
| nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com |
|       depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981            |
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From j at packetgod.com  Tue Oct  2 19:24:17 2007
From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 19:24:17 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Zonbu
In-Reply-To: <d3cf65830710021434g3c08651aqc2c72d5c84c81cda@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34b4c76d0710011053r5a8ea821xdc990506fa2c6b0b@mail.gmail.com>
	<470145F0.6030301@cdf123.net> <470198E8.8050205@freeshell.org>
	<47025100.2060401@packetgod.com>
	<38aa5b6a0710021220i499efe75wac3636fd6a927d7f@mail.gmail.com>
	<d3cf65830710021434g3c08651aqc2c72d5c84c81cda@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <38aa5b6a0710021724ndf5647dq3fc479060e54613a@mail.gmail.com>

Cool beans, just to update you the site is now:
http://www.dataevolution.com/dectop%20info%202.htm as apparently they bought
Norhtek.  And the device is a dectop for only 99$ (or buy 3 get one free,
anybody want to split an order?).  So other than the fact that it doesn't
have a flash drive as a hard drive and starts out at 128MB of memory thats a
pretty good deal.  But you can swap out the hard drive for a larger one and
upgrade the memory too if you want.  Plus the Norhtek sounds like it uses an
AMD chip so there may be better compatibility than the unknown one in the
Zonbu.  Plus the Zonbu is theoretically "greener".

But at 99$ versus 249$ I'm probably down with the Norhtek.  Any other super
small cheap systems out there?

--j

On 10/2/07, Spence Morris <spence.morris at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Zonbu is pretty much a generic unit with their own variant of Linux tacked
> on.
> The idea of the network being the computer has yet to fully prove itself>
> There are other mini pc builders with fewer hooks and agendas- re again,
> Norhtek-
> based in Thailand. Michael C. Barnes sells a lot of his units here- At
> last look,
> he had four or five nice models to choose from and good ideas about use.
> Check out Norhtek.com before investing in Zonbu.
>
> On 10/2/07, J Cruit <j at packetgod.com> wrote:
>
> > So I e-mailed Zonbu and got a quick response, I think this may be the
> > exact platform I've been looking for to use for a small quiet Mythfrontend
> > system.  I'll have to figure out some sort of USB remote, and my TV does
> > actually have a VGA input so I should be good there.  My other options were
> > a repurposed MacMini, a shuttle  SD02 for 499$ (without memory, HD,
> > Processor, etc but with a remote port).
> >
> > This is the response from Zonbu:
> >
> > "Yes, you are free to do as you wish with the Zonbu hardware. While we
> > do not and cannot officially support running alternate OSes on the Zonbu
> > hardware, several users have reported successfully installing other OSes (
> > e.g. Ubuntu Linux) on the hardware without any problems"
> >
> > Hey, thanks much TCLUG for putting me onto this.
> >
> > --j
> >
> > On 10/2/07, J <j at packetgod.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm tempted to hit this for their "249$ without service plan" and wipe
> > >
> > > it clean with my own distro.  They must be using commodity hardware
> > > and
> > > many of those SFF PC cases start at 100$ for something 10 times the
> > > size.  Small ones like the Zonbu are generally even more just for the
> > > case.  So a complete Linux friendly SFF quiet environmentally friendly
> > > PC for 249$, while a bit light on the specs I wouldn't mind running a
> > > little home web/e-mail/SSH server off of it or perhaps just a
> > > mythfrontend?
> > >
> > > I think I'll do it, buy it and see if I can load my own distro by hook
> > > or by crook.  I'm hoping by crook as I haven't had a good project for
> > > a
> > > while.
> > >
> > > --j
> > >
> > > Steve Cayford wrote:
> > > > Chris Frederick wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> G. Scott Walters wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Anyone ever heard of Zonbu?
> > > >>>
> > > >> [...]
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> Looks interesting.  I've been looking at small form factor PCs for
> > > a
> > > >> while.  They look very similar to these:
> > > >>
> > > >> http://logisysus.com/product/smallest-pc.htm
> > > >>
> > > >> >From the Zonbu site:
> > > >>
> > > >> Zonbu Desktop, Standard plan, Billing every two years = $412.95
> > > >>
> > > >> Thats standard options after all discounts, plus $358.80 after two
> > > years
> > > >> for more support.  Also, their "Cancel anytime policy" warns that
> > > if you
> > > >> cancel the membership service, your device will not give you access
> > > to
> > > >> your data after 3 months.  They do have a free/no support option,
> > > but
> > > >> I'd probably want to talk to a sales person before I went with
> > > that.
> > > >>
> > > >> I guess it depends on what their support covers, but I don't see
> > > much
> > > >> there that strikes me as worth $180 a year.
> > > >>
> > > >> >From their site:
> > > >>
> > > >> Disaster proof storage - Very doable and cheap.
> > > >> Free automatic software upgrades - Most linux distros have this.
> > > >> Unlimited Internet support - You are reading this on a mailing
> > > list.  ;-)
> > > >> Remote file access "anywhere, anytime, any browser (no plugins)" -
> > > That
> > > >> just sounds scary to me.
> > > >> Overnight free hardware replacement limited warranty - Nice, but
> > > that's
> > > >> an extra $60 a year.
> > > >>
> > > >> My $0.02 would be that everything looks nice, but personally I'd
> > > rather
> > > >> pay more up front for something without a huge service contract, or
> > > >> required membership service.
> > > >>
> > > >> ymmv,
> > > >> Chris Frederick
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > It seems to me that there could be a pretty good market for
> > > something
> > > > like this. Not for us on this list, but for the proverbial "my
> > > > grandmother." Folks who want a web browser, email, office suite, and
> > > > some basic games and who don't want to deal with updates, spyware,
> > > > system administration, etc. Considering how much people spend on
> > > > services like Geek Squad the rates don't seem too outrageous.
> > > >
> > > > -Steve
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> >
>
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From florin at iucha.net  Tue Oct  2 22:34:59 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 22:34:59 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit and separate
	wifi	network?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0710022011330.7523@iron.msp.technicality.org>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <47029967.7070008@umn.edu>
	<20071002193544.GQ8174@iucha.net>
	<fa17c9630710021450w5afcb578gf8f13a52d91e60d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071002231211.GY8174@iucha.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0710022011330.7523@iron.msp.technicality.org>
Message-ID: <20071003033458.GZ8174@iucha.net>

On Tue, Oct 02, 2007 at 08:11:42PM -0500, Nate Carlson wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Oct 2007, Florin Iucha wrote:
>> Nobody reads my whole message.  I want a real router, but not a REAL 
>> R*O*U*T*E*R.  I just want the smallest physical and power-wise box that 
>> will do wifi/lan/dmz/wan firewall separations.
>
> Get something that you can run dd-wrt on?

Yes I do.  However, with stock firmware, when I connected one of the
lan ports to the gigabit switch, it appeared to slowdown the traffic
on the switch.  Yes it does not make sense, unless there is some silly
broadcast going on.  I'm not sure if that was due to the firmware I
used at the time or it was a hardware thingie.  I'll probably pick
up a Buffalo WHR-G125 since Circuit City has it for $25 after rebates
and try it first.

florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From cncole at earthlink.net  Tue Oct  2 23:27:28 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 23:27:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] [Off-Topic?] recovering data from a hard drivewith
	mechanical failure
In-Reply-To: <3f6d716b0710021531r384f2a88mccb7d5a22b66ebf5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGCELFCIAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

Not a DIY home job.  Opening a drive should only be done in a clean room by people wearing "bunny suits".  Otherwise, microscopic
dust particles will get in and cause serious crashes almost immediately.  None of it is easy and every step requires a
super-delicate touch.. especially handling the heads to get them off the old platters and onto the new.  This is why it's
expensive..


Chuck
  -----Original Message-----
  From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Subramanya Sastry
  Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 5:31 PM
  To: Chris Barber
  Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
  Subject: Re: [tclug-list] [Off-Topic?] recovering data from a hard drivewith mechanical failure


  I called them a few minutes back.  They charge $100 for evaluation and then give me a list of all files and folders that they
recover ... I was told that the mechanical failure recovery costs anywhere between $900 - $1900 ... So, I decided it is not worth
it.

  Thanks for the tip regarding swapping mechanical components ... I wonder how hard/easy that is ... I might be willing to give it a
try if I could lay my hand on a spare drive ..

  Subbu.


  On 10/2/07, Chris Barber <stuff at cb1inc.com> wrote:
    Lucky for you Kroll Ontrack is located in Eden Prairie and they are data recovery specialists.  Not lucky for you because they
are not cheap.  Last time I heard they charge based on the amount of data they recover.  In the event of a hardware failure, one of
their strategies is to track down the same drive model and swap the mechanical components.

    There web address is: http://www.ontrackdatarecovery.com.  If you do use them, I'd be curious how they are?  Expensive?
Accurately?  Timely?

    -Chris


    Subramanya Sastry wrote:
      Hi folks,

      I just had the misfortune of having my hard drive crash on me ... it seems like a mechanical failure ... horrible clicking
noises ...

      There is some data on there that I haven't backed up recently, plus, I had used this drive as a backup for data on some other
hard drive ... while this is not catastrophic data loss, I was wondering if folks had any suggestions for recovering data in the
face of mechanical failure ... or what it might cost if I paid some service for data recovery in the twin cities.

      It is a ext3 file system .. though not sure that matters ...

      Thanks,
      Subbu.
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From cncole at earthlink.net  Tue Oct  2 23:33:14 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 23:33:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit
	andseparate	wifi	network?
In-Reply-To: <4702DCE3.805@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGEELFCIAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

A meeting at TIES would be good.

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Elvedin Trnjanin
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:06 PM
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit andseparate wifi
> network?
> 
> 
> Florin Iucha wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 02, 2007 at 04:50:20PM -0500, Munir Nassar wrote:
> >   
> >> ps, we have not had a meeting in a while, i've been thinking of giving
> >> a presentation on iptables, anyone interested?
> >>     
> >
> > Yes, but _AFTER_ you do the presentation on OpenVPN that you promised
> > us a few months ago.
> >
> > florin
> >
> >
> >   
> 
> Count me in for iptables and OpenVPN, just don't make the meeting on a 
> Wednesday night.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.37/1042 - Release Date: 
> 10/1/2007 6:59 PM
> 
> 


From rudie at sihope.com  Wed Oct  3 00:18:19 2007
From: rudie at sihope.com (Kevin Hinze)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 23:18:19 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] [Off-Topic?] recovering data from a hard drivewith
	mechanical failure
In-Reply-To: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGCELFCIAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <3f6d716b0710021531r384f2a88mccb7d5a22b66ebf5@mail.gmail.com>
	<JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGCELFCIAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20071003050739.M32954@sihope.com>

> Subramanya Sastry wrote:   
> Hi folks,
> 
> I just had the  misfortune of having my hard drive crash on me ... it seems
> like a  mechanical failure ... horrible clicking noises ...
> 
> There is some  data on there that I haven't backed up recently, plus, I had
> used this  drive as a backup for data on some other hard drive ... while
> this is not  catastrophic data loss, I was wondering if folks had any
> suggestions for  recovering data in the face of mechanical failure ... or
> what it might cost if I paid some service for data recovery in the twin
> cities.  
> 
> It is a ext3 file system .. though not sure that matters ...  
> 
> Thanks,
> Subbu.
>

Subbu,

There seems to be a few techniques for drive repair. There's the freezer trick
(never worked for me), and swapping the controller board. I've swapped out the
controller board on a variety of brands and sizes of hard drives. I have had
very good success with data recovery. While I am no drive expert, I have even
fixed the infamous 'click of death'. You definitely need an identical drive,
eBay is a great source. Generally you can pick up a used drive for $5 to $25.
And if the controller board fixes the problem, it sure is a lot cheaper than
Ontrack. Generally the controller boards are very simple to swap. Somewhat
self-explanatory if you stare at it long enough.

Of course, any minute you have the drive back up and running is a gift, so my
standard recommendation is to do your recovery quickly (providing your fix
worked) and pitch that drive!

Of the dozen or so I have fixed, all of them were fixed to the point of at
least 90% recovery. One friend continued to use the repaired drive for years
afterwards, against doctor's advice.

Best of luck to you.


-- 
Kevin Hinze 
------------- 
rudie at sihope.com 
rudie at rudie.net 
rudie at google.com



From tclug at lizakowski.com  Wed Oct  3 01:10:04 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 01:10:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit and separate wifi
	network?
In-Reply-To: <fa17c9630710021450w5afcb578gf8f13a52d91e60d3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <20071002193544.GQ8174@iucha.net>
	<fa17c9630710021450w5afcb578gf8f13a52d91e60d3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200710030110.05067.tclug@lizakowski.com>

> ps, we have not had a meeting in a while, i've been thinking of giving
> a presentation on iptables, anyone interested?

Munir,

The October meeting should be either this Wed (too late), or next Wed.  I have 
a speaker lined up for Nov, but October is still open.

If you're seriously offering, we can do it on Wed the 10th.  I just need to 
reserve the room.  Up for it?

Jeremy

P.S. If anyone else wants to talk about something (such as the router, or 
media pc projects), that's cool too.  Let's have a call for speakers!  


On Tuesday 02 October 2007 4:50:20 pm Munir Nassar wrote:
> On 10/2/07, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 02, 2007 at 02:17:59PM -0500, Jonathan Osborne wrote:
> > > Looks like an interesting product, but it's gotten some very mixed
> > > reviews on amazon:
> > >
> > > http://www.amazon.com/Linksys-WRVS4400N-Wireless-N-Gigabit-Security/dp/
> > >B000H97UC0
> >
> > Hrm... it looks quite bad.  Also, from reading the user manual, it seems
> > that it does not have the strict separation between wired and wireless
> > networks.
>
> for what you want to do you need a real router, not some garbage
> consumer product. So find yourself a small case, mobo and some GigE
> network cards that fit in there.
>
> There are several wireless chipsets out there that support master
> mode, get a card with one of those chipsets. (i prefer the hostap
> hards, but they only support 802.11b)
>
> i myself have a system with 4 network cards, 3 wired and a wireless,
> works great for me, does all i need and then some, is it ugly? yes but
> it is ugly in some corner where not even my girlfriend can complain
> about it. sitting there quietly (for the most part, the K6 has a
> tendency to overheat and beep at me every once in a while) passing
> bits back and force.
>
> It does have very strict separation between the network cards, but
> when i want or need to i can let the wireless network ssh to a box on
> the dmz. or if i need a public address when bittorrenting i can give
> one of those to my laptop on my wireless network. No port forwarding
> here!
>
> very flexible, very cheap, very linux.
>
> ps, we have not had a meeting in a while, i've been thinking of giving
> a presentation on iptables, anyone interested?
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




From tclug at lizakowski.com  Wed Oct  3 01:21:32 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 01:21:32 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] [Off-Topic?] recovering data from a hard drivewith
	mechanical failure
In-Reply-To: <20071003050739.M32954@sihope.com>
References: <3f6d716b0710021531r384f2a88mccb7d5a22b66ebf5@mail.gmail.com>
	<JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGCELFCIAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<20071003050739.M32954@sihope.com>
Message-ID: <200710030121.32821.tclug@lizakowski.com>

>I just had the  misfortune of having my hard drive crash on me ... it
>seems like a  mechanical failure ... horrible clicking noises ...

Have you tried smacking it?  

Some of the older drives would stick, and could be brought back to life with 
physical agitation.  I should mention that it could very easily cause more 
damage than you already have, so only try it when you have nothing else to 
lose.  i.e. Just before you trash it.

The same technique sometimes works for PC fans, CDroms, air conditioners, and 
other mechanical devices.  Or at least it can make you feel better.

Jeremy

:)

On Wednesday 03 October 2007 12:18:19 am Kevin Hinze wrote:
> > Subramanya Sastry wrote:
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > I just had the  misfortune of having my hard drive crash on me ... it
> > seems like a  mechanical failure ... horrible clicking noises ...
> >
> > There is some  data on there that I haven't backed up recently, plus, I
> > had used this  drive as a backup for data on some other hard drive ...
> > while this is not  catastrophic data loss, I was wondering if folks had
> > any suggestions for  recovering data in the face of mechanical failure
> > ... or what it might cost if I paid some service for data recovery in the
> > twin cities.
> >
> > It is a ext3 file system .. though not sure that matters ...
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Subbu.
>
> Subbu,
>
> There seems to be a few techniques for drive repair. There's the freezer
> trick (never worked for me), and swapping the controller board. I've
> swapped out the controller board on a variety of brands and sizes of hard
> drives. I have had very good success with data recovery. While I am no
> drive expert, I have even fixed the infamous 'click of death'. You
> definitely need an identical drive, eBay is a great source. Generally you
> can pick up a used drive for $5 to $25. And if the controller board fixes
> the problem, it sure is a lot cheaper than Ontrack. Generally the
> controller boards are very simple to swap. Somewhat self-explanatory if you
> stare at it long enough.
>
> Of course, any minute you have the drive back up and running is a gift, so
> my standard recommendation is to do your recovery quickly (providing your
> fix worked) and pitch that drive!
>
> Of the dozen or so I have fixed, all of them were fixed to the point of at
> least 90% recovery. One friend continued to use the repaired drive for
> years afterwards, against doctor's advice.
>
> Best of luck to you.




From teeahr1 at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 07:50:27 2007
From: teeahr1 at gmail.com (Pete)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 07:50:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] (Another OT hardware question) Shorted HDD
Message-ID: <1f729feb0710030550q5d2a2d66g80519270b570dcd6@mail.gmail.com>

I've got an HDD that I use as a backup-for-a-backup that seems to be shorted
out.  When I give it power, whatever box its in will not turn on, and I'm
pretty sure I toasted an enclosure.  This is all personal data, music and
such, not something I'm at all willing to put money into recovering unless
it's <$100.  Anyone have any luck with issues of this sort?

best-
p.daniels
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From Larry.Pint at ntuminc.com  Wed Oct  3 08:43:09 2007
From: Larry.Pint at ntuminc.com (Larry R. Pint)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 08:43:09 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Zonbu
In-Reply-To: <38aa5b6a0710021724ndf5647dq3fc479060e54613a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AD1913F70C219A458F44131CC9E91BA6B0095C@exch01.internal.ntuminc.com>

That site is being blocked by my surf protection filter as being
pornography.  Their prices must be indecent!  ;-)

 

Larry

 

-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of J Cruit
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:24 PM
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Zonbu

 

Cool beans, just to update you the site is now:
http://www.dataevolution.com/dectop%20info%202.htm as apparently they
bought Norhtek.  And the device is a dectop for only 99$ (or buy 3 get
one free, anybody want to split an order?).  So other than the fact that
it doesn't have a flash drive as a hard drive and starts out at 128MB of
memory thats a pretty good deal.  But you can swap out the hard drive
for a larger one and upgrade the memory too if you want.  Plus the
Norhtek sounds like it uses an AMD chip so there may be better
compatibility than the unknown one in the Zonbu.  Plus the Zonbu is
theoretically "greener". 

But at 99$ versus 249$ I'm probably down with the Norhtek.  Any other
super small cheap systems out there?

--j

On 10/2/07, Spence Morris <spence.morris at gmail.com> wrote:

Zonbu is pretty much a generic unit with their own variant of Linux
tacked on.
The idea of the network being the computer has yet to fully prove
itself>
There are other mini pc builders with fewer hooks and agendas- re again,
Norhtek- 
based in Thailand. Michael C. Barnes sells a lot of his units here- At
last look,
he had four or five nice models to choose from and good ideas about use.
Check out Norhtek.com before investing in Zonbu. 

On 10/2/07, J Cruit < j at packetgod.com <mailto:j at packetgod.com> > wrote:

	So I e-mailed Zonbu and got a quick response, I think this may
be the exact platform I've been looking for to use for a small quiet
Mythfrontend system.  I'll have to figure out some sort of USB remote,
and my TV does actually have a VGA input so I should be good there.  My
other options were a repurposed MacMini, a shuttle  SD02 for 499$
(without memory, HD, Processor, etc but with a remote port). 
	
	This is the response from Zonbu:
	
	"Yes, you are free to do as you wish with the Zonbu hardware.
While we do not and cannot officially support running alternate OSes on
the Zonbu hardware, several users have reported successfully installing
other OSes (e.g. Ubuntu Linux) on the hardware without any problems"
	
	Hey, thanks much TCLUG for putting me onto this.
	
	--j

	 

	On 10/2/07, J <j at packetgod.com> wrote:

	I'm tempted to hit this for their "249$ without service plan"
and wipe 
	it clean with my own distro.  They must be using commodity
hardware and
	many of those SFF PC cases start at 100$ for something 10 times
the
	size.  Small ones like the Zonbu are generally even more just
for the
	case.  So a complete Linux friendly SFF quiet environmentally
friendly
	PC for 249$, while a bit light on the specs I wouldn't mind
running a
	little home web/e-mail/SSH server off of it or perhaps just a
mythfrontend? 
	
	I think I'll do it, buy it and see if I can load my own distro
by hook
	or by crook.  I'm hoping by crook as I haven't had a good
project for a
	while.
	
	--j
	
	Steve Cayford wrote:
	> Chris Frederick wrote: 
	>
	>> G. Scott Walters wrote:
	>>
	>>> Anyone ever heard of Zonbu?
	>>>
	>> [...]
	>>
	>
	>
	>> Looks interesting.  I've been looking at small form factor
PCs for a 
	>> while.  They look very similar to these:
	>>
	>> http://logisysus.com/product/smallest-pc.htm 
	>>
	>> >From the Zonbu site: 
	>>
	>> Zonbu Desktop, Standard plan, Billing every two years =
$412.95
	>>
	>> Thats standard options after all discounts, plus $358.80
after two years
	>> for more support.  Also, their "Cancel anytime policy" warns
that if you 
	>> cancel the membership service, your device will not give you
access to
	>> your data after 3 months.  They do have a free/no support
option, but
	>> I'd probably want to talk to a sales person before I went
with that. 
	>>
	>> I guess it depends on what their support covers, but I don't
see much
	>> there that strikes me as worth $180 a year.
	>>
	>> >From their site:
	>>
	>> Disaster proof storage - Very doable and cheap. 
	>> Free automatic software upgrades - Most linux distros have
this.
	>> Unlimited Internet support - You are reading this on a
mailing list.  ;-)
	>> Remote file access "anywhere, anytime, any browser (no
plugins)" - That 
	>> just sounds scary to me.
	>> Overnight free hardware replacement limited warranty - Nice,
but that's
	>> an extra $60 a year.
	>>
	>> My $0.02 would be that everything looks nice, but personally
I'd rather 
	>> pay more up front for something without a huge service
contract, or
	>> required membership service.
	>>
	>> ymmv,
	>> Chris Frederick
	>>
	>
	> It seems to me that there could be a pretty good market for
something 
	> like this. Not for us on this list, but for the proverbial "my
	> grandmother." Folks who want a web browser, email, office
suite, and
	> some basic games and who don't want to deal with updates,
spyware, 
	> system administration, etc. Considering how much people spend
on
	> services like Geek Squad the rates don't seem too outrageous.
	>
	> -Steve
	>
	> _______________________________________________ 
	> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
	> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
	> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
	>
	
	_______________________________________________
	TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
	tclug-list at mn-linux.org
	http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

	 

	
	
	

	_______________________________________________
	TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
	tclug-list at mn-linux.org
	http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 

 

 

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From progressivepenguin at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 09:10:00 2007
From: progressivepenguin at gmail.com (Steve T)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 09:10:00 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Zonbu
In-Reply-To: <470198E8.8050205@freeshell.org>
References: <34b4c76d0710011053r5a8ea821xdc990506fa2c6b0b@mail.gmail.com>
	<470145F0.6030301@cdf123.net> <470198E8.8050205@freeshell.org>
Message-ID: <7156d5f20710030710i16e6f32axb028056a7675fff9@mail.gmail.com>

I was just thinking this would be great for my Mom.  I've been trying to
decide what to get her for quite some time, and have been leaning toward an
iMac, but this looks perfect.



>
> It seems to me that there could be a pretty good market for something
> like this. Not for us on this list, but for the proverbial "my
> grandmother." Folks who want a web browser, email, office suite, and
> some basic games and who don't want to deal with updates, spyware,
> system administration, etc. Considering how much people spend on
> services like Geek Squad the rates don't seem too outrageous.
>
> -Steve
>


-- 
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act!"
-- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair)
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From sss.lists at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 09:21:28 2007
From: sss.lists at gmail.com (Subramanya Sastry)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 09:21:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Data backup setup on linux systems
Message-ID: <3f6d716b0710030721n1bb788fpfc72b96803b7db18@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for all the tips.  The freezer trick didn't do it for me ... but, I
am going to perhaps try the controller trick and then give it up for now.

But, the inevitable followup to a hd crash.  I had backed up all important
data on dvds 3 months back, some of my code is on svn and cvs repositories,
and email is on an email server ... but, i nevertheless lost some work
related docs and some code ... say about 20-40 hours of work in recreating
those.

I also had dumbly(?) used my laptop as a cron-scheduled rsync-based backup
system for data on a web service (about 15 gb).  Now, I need to think of
other setups.  I am thinking of using amazon s3 for backing up my server
data ... Any thoughts on amazon s3 and/or alternatives folks here might have
experience with?  Data of the order of 10s of gigabytes and growing over
time at the rate of maybe 1 gb a month.

I am thinking of getting a home desktop system and I could use a rsync
technique for keeping copies of my laptop and desktop in sync ... Yet, it
seems you would have to burn DVDs every once in a while because there is
always the risk of one or the other 'backup' systems packing up.  Or is it
better to simply get a back up hard drive solely for the purpose of backup
and not use it for anything else, in stead of (or in addition to) a desktop?

Do people have thoughts on backup strategies -- I suppose this depends on
risk appetites as well as how critical the data is -- but what is a typical
(not overkill) backup strategy that people adopt when you have a combination
of email, code, design docs, personal photos + music, and web service data?

Feel free to direct me to an appropriate web site or other forums.

Thanks,
Subbu.
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From jeruvin at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 09:39:31 2007
From: jeruvin at gmail.com (jason reynolds)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 09:39:31 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] (Another OT hardware question) Shorted HDD
In-Reply-To: <1f729feb0710030550q5d2a2d66g80519270b570dcd6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1f729feb0710030550q5d2a2d66g80519270b570dcd6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6eb23c4e0710030739m1a30a85eq8d6b2e7346d53481@mail.gmail.com>

If it's shorted out there is a chance that replacing the circuit board on
the hard drive will allow it to function once again. I'm not sure about
others, but ebay seems to be a good source for getting just the board.

Jason

On 10/3/07, Pete <teeahr1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I've got an HDD that I use as a backup-for-a-backup that seems to be
> shorted out.  When I give it power, whatever box its in will not turn on,
> and I'm pretty sure I toasted an enclosure.  This is all personal data,
> music and such, not something I'm at all willing to put money into
> recovering unless it's <$100.  Anyone have any luck with issues of this
> sort?
>
> best-
> p.daniels
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From chewie at wookimus.net  Wed Oct  3 10:22:10 2007
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:22:10 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] (Another OT hardware question) Shorted HDD
In-Reply-To: <6eb23c4e0710030739m1a30a85eq8d6b2e7346d53481@mail.gmail.com> 
References: <1f729feb0710030550q5d2a2d66g80519270b570dcd6@mail.gmail.com>
	<6eb23c4e0710030739m1a30a85eq8d6b2e7346d53481@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <13220.1191424930@skuld.wookimus.net>

Pete, be forewarned regarding trying to replace the circuit board for
the hard drive.  You will likely need the EXACT same board revision to
get it to work correctly.  How difficult that will be depends upon the
manufacturer and whether or not they play the shell game with the
advertised drive models.

Good luck!

Chad


From admin at lctn.org  Wed Oct  3 10:27:04 2007
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 10:27:04 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] recommendation
Message-ID: <4572.10.10.1.1.1191425224.squirrel@lctn.org>

What is a recommended sata raid adapter, that can handle a 2Tb, raid 5
configuration?

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.



From andyzib at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 10:23:27 2007
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 10:23:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Data backup setup on linux systems
In-Reply-To: <3f6d716b0710030721n1bb788fpfc72b96803b7db18@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3f6d716b0710030721n1bb788fpfc72b96803b7db18@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e3a54b020710030823x5051315bj2653415eecbcf1bd@mail.gmail.com>

I use BackupPC at home to backup my systems to an external hard drive.
The *NIX systems that are being backed up just need ssh, rsync, and an
account with permission to run rsync as root via sudo. It works really
well as rsync will only push over the changed files, and then BackupPC
maintains it's archive with lots of symlinks and such. The external
hard drive used to be encrypted, but I had issues when moving the
drive from one computer to another so I gave up on the encryption and
settled on a laptop lock. I'm hoping to work out a deal with a friend
so that I can drop another external HD at his place and rsync the
BackupPC archive to the external HD at his place.

For the Windows system I'm BackupPC grabs data via smb sharing. I've
tried getting the rsync+ssh setup working on Windows but so far I've
only had mixed results.

BackupPC is nice for devices such as laptops which may not be on the
network. It can be configured to periodically ping hosts and back them
up when they are available on the network.

I've successfully recovered an entire Linux system via BackupPC. For
Windows, I only backup data (Documents and Settings directories). You
would need to involve nt backup or some other utility to do a full
restore of a Windows system.

I tried configuring Backula before BackupPC. In the end I found
Backula to be overly complicated for what I was doing.

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
0 rows returned


From bbaptist at iexposure.com  Wed Oct  3 10:39:24 2007
From: bbaptist at iexposure.com (Bret Baptist)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 10:39:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] recommendation
In-Reply-To: <4572.10.10.1.1.1191425224.squirrel@lctn.org>
References: <4572.10.10.1.1.1191425224.squirrel@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <200710031039.24666.bbaptist@iexposure.com>

On Wednesday 03 October 2007 10:27:04 am admin at lctn.org wrote:
> What is a recommended sata raid adapter, that can handle a 2Tb, raid 5
> configuration?

I recommend the Areca brand of hardware RAID adapters.  Very good Linux 
support built right in the kernel.

Here is an example:
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=ARC1110&c=pw


-- 
Bret Baptist
Senior Network Administrator
bbaptist at iexposure.com
Internet Exposure, Inc.
http://www.iexposure.com
(612)676-1946 x17

Providing Internet Services since 1995
Web Development ~ Search Engine Marketing ~ Web Analytics
Network Security ~ On Demand Tech Support ~ E-Mail Marketing
------------------------------------------


From marc at e-skinner.net  Wed Oct  3 10:58:22 2007
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:58:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
Message-ID: <4703BC1E.1060901@e-skinner.net>

Just picked up 4 of these drives ... this week they are $119 regularly
$149.  I needed them ASAP so I couldn't wait for an online store to ship
- which might be a better price.  These have a 5 year warranty, and are
Sata2 - very nice drives!

Both Circuit City and Office Max have the deal this week.

Enjoy!


From chewie at wookimus.net  Wed Oct  3 11:24:35 2007
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 11:24:35 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
In-Reply-To: <4703BC1E.1060901@e-skinner.net> 
References: <4703BC1E.1060901@e-skinner.net>
Message-ID: <14011.1191428675@skuld.wookimus.net>

Is it the 7200.10 series or 7200.9 series.  Go for the .10 if you can
get it.  NewEgg.com has the .10 series for $119 as well.


From tclug at lizakowski.com  Wed Oct  3 12:05:09 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 12:05:09 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Data backup setup on linux systems
In-Reply-To: <3f6d716b0710030721n1bb788fpfc72b96803b7db18@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3f6d716b0710030721n1bb788fpfc72b96803b7db18@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200710031205.10120.tclug@lizakowski.com>

> I am thinking of getting a home desktop system and I could use a rsync
> technique for keeping copies of my laptop and desktop in sync ... Yet, it

Also look at Unison.  It does a more advanced comparison than rsync, and I use 
it to sync two machines.  It does seem a little slower than rsync, however.

Jeremy


On Wednesday 03 October 2007 9:21:28 am Subramanya Sastry wrote:
> Thanks for all the tips.  The freezer trick didn't do it for me ... but, I
> am going to perhaps try the controller trick and then give it up for now.
>
> But, the inevitable followup to a hd crash.  I had backed up all important
> data on dvds 3 months back, some of my code is on svn and cvs repositories,
> and email is on an email server ... but, i nevertheless lost some work
> related docs and some code ... say about 20-40 hours of work in recreating
> those.
>
> I also had dumbly(?) used my laptop as a cron-scheduled rsync-based backup
> system for data on a web service (about 15 gb).  Now, I need to think of
> other setups.  I am thinking of using amazon s3 for backing up my server
> data ... Any thoughts on amazon s3 and/or alternatives folks here might
> have experience with?  Data of the order of 10s of gigabytes and growing
> over time at the rate of maybe 1 gb a month.
>
> I am thinking of getting a home desktop system and I could use a rsync
> technique for keeping copies of my laptop and desktop in sync ... Yet, it
> seems you would have to burn DVDs every once in a while because there is
> always the risk of one or the other 'backup' systems packing up.  Or is it
> better to simply get a back up hard drive solely for the purpose of backup
> and not use it for anything else, in stead of (or in addition to) a
> desktop?
>
> Do people have thoughts on backup strategies -- I suppose this depends on
> risk appetites as well as how critical the data is -- but what is a typical
> (not overkill) backup strategy that people adopt when you have a
> combination of email, code, design docs, personal photos + music, and web
> service data?
>
> Feel free to direct me to an appropriate web site or other forums.
>
> Thanks,
> Subbu.




From chewie at wookimus.net  Wed Oct  3 12:15:19 2007
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 12:15:19 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Data backup setup on linux systems
In-Reply-To: <200710031205.10120.tclug@lizakowski.com> 
References: <3f6d716b0710030721n1bb788fpfc72b96803b7db18@mail.gmail.com>
	<200710031205.10120.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <14781.1191431719@skuld.wookimus.net>

I thought Unison wasn't being maintained any longer.

Chad


From tclug at lizakowski.com  Wed Oct  3 12:41:40 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 12:41:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Data backup setup on linux systems
In-Reply-To: <14781.1191431719@skuld.wookimus.net>
References: <3f6d716b0710030721n1bb788fpfc72b96803b7db18@mail.gmail.com>
	<200710031205.10120.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<14781.1191431719@skuld.wookimus.net>
Message-ID: <200710031241.40575.tclug@lizakowski.com>

> I thought Unison wasn't being maintained any longer.

I believe it is maintained by the authors, but it is no longer a formal 
research project.  

"Unison is no longer under active development as a research project. (Our 
research efforts in this area are now focused on a follow-on project called 
Harmony?more details are available on the Harmony home page.) At this point, 
there is no one whose job it is to maintain Unison, fix bugs, or answer 
questions.

However, the original developers are all still using Unison daily. It will 
continue to be maintained and supported for the foreseeable future, and we 
will occasionally release new versions with bug fixes, small improvements, 
and contributed patches."

http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/status.html

J

On Wednesday 03 October 2007 12:15:19 pm Chad Walstrom wrote:
> I thought Unison wasn't being maintained any longer.
>
> Chad
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




From marc at e-skinner.net  Wed Oct  3 15:12:53 2007
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 15:12:53 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
In-Reply-To: <14011.1191428675@skuld.wookimus.net>
References: <4703BC1E.1060901@e-skinner.net>
	<14011.1191428675@skuld.wookimus.net>
Message-ID: <4703F7C5.40107@e-skinner.net>

Chad Walstrom wrote:
> Is it the 7200.10 series or 7200.9 series.  Go for the .10 if you can
> get it.  NewEgg.com has the .10 series for $119 as well.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


yup it is:




Device Model:     ST3500630AS

16mb of cache as well!


From auditodd at comcast.net  Wed Oct  3 15:29:21 2007
From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 20:29:21 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
Message-ID: <100320072029.17939.4703FBA1000559890000461322007623020B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net>

With NewEgg you can get free 3 day shipping and NO sales tax.

NewEgg sounds like the better deal to me if you can wait for a few days (which I will be doing).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148136

Just my $0.02.  :-)

--
==========
Todd Young

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Marc Skinner <marc at e-skinner.net>
> Chad Walstrom wrote:
> > Is it the 7200.10 series or 7200.9 series.  Go for the .10 if you can
> > get it.  NewEgg.com has the .10 series for $119 as well.
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> yup it is:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Device Model:     ST3500630AS
> 
> 16mb of cache as well!
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us  Wed Oct  3 15:34:23 2007
From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 15:34:23 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
In-Reply-To: <4703F7C5.40107@e-skinner.net>
References: <4703BC1E.1060901@e-skinner.net>
	<14011.1191428675@skuld.wookimus.net> <4703F7C5.40107@e-skinner.net>
Message-ID: <4703B67E.9048.009E.0@health.state.mn.us>

>>> On 10/3/2007 at 3:12 PM, in message <4703F7C5.40107 at e-skinner.net>, Marc
Skinner <marc at e-skinner.net> wrote:
> Chad Walstrom wrote:
>> Is it the 7200.10 series or 7200.9 series.  Go for the .10 if you can
>> get it.  NewEgg.com has the .10 series for $119 as well.
>> 
> yup it is:
> Device Model:     ST3500630AS
> 16mb of cache as well!

I bought a couple of the 7200.10 disks recently, but one is clicking a bit.
It works for now, but I see myself using that warranty sometime in the future.






From marc at e-skinner.net  Wed Oct  3 15:59:05 2007
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 15:59:05 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] recommendation
In-Reply-To: <4572.10.10.1.1.1191425224.squirrel@lctn.org>
References: <4572.10.10.1.1.1191425224.squirrel@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <47040299.6030603@e-skinner.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

admin at lctn.org wrote:
> What is a recommended sata raid adapter, that can handle a 2Tb, raid 5
> configuration?
> 

i have been using the 8 port Marvell sata2 MG-SA3541 in my home
fileserver.  i use software raid-5 to keep the cost down, since i don't
need hardware raid performance.  it was $108 for the card!  works
awesome with FC6 and gives me 2.4Tb usable.

i think the question you need to ask, is how many SATA ports do you
require.

will it be a 3x1 TB setup or 5x500Gb setup?  do you require a hot spare?

i have also used adaptec cards, 3ware, siig, highpoint and promise
controllers over the past serveral years. all are good and have good
Linux support.
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From marc at e-skinner.net  Wed Oct  3 16:03:01 2007
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 16:03:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
In-Reply-To: <4703B67E.9048.009E.0@health.state.mn.us>
References: <4703BC1E.1060901@e-skinner.net>
	<14011.1191428675@skuld.wookimus.net>
	<4703F7C5.40107@e-skinner.net>
	<4703B67E.9048.009E.0@health.state.mn.us>
Message-ID: <47040385.7050707@e-skinner.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Troy.A Johnson wrote:
>>>> On 10/3/2007 at 3:12 PM, in message <4703F7C5.40107 at e-skinner.net>, Marc
> Skinner <marc at e-skinner.net> wrote:
>> Chad Walstrom wrote:
>>> Is it the 7200.10 series or 7200.9 series.  Go for the .10 if you can
>>> get it.  NewEgg.com has the .10 series for $119 as well.
>>>
>> yup it is:
>> Device Model:     ST3500630AS
>> 16mb of cache as well!
> 
> I bought a couple of the 7200.10 disks recently, but one is clicking a bit.
> It works for now, but I see myself using that warranty sometime in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> 


i learned my lesson a long time ago, i don't have any drives in my house
that aren't raid-1 or raid-5.  it is a life saver!  i also do backups of
my most critical data, so far, raid has saved me from ever having to dip
into a restore.  but there will come a time.  the seagates are great
cause they have a 5 year warranty.  i know have 10 of those drives, i'll
see what happens, but so for 6 of them have been running non-stop for
about 4 months now, the other 4 i just put into servers today.


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From jwo at umn.edu  Wed Oct  3 16:20:08 2007
From: jwo at umn.edu (Jonathan Osborne)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 16:20:08 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
Message-ID: <47040788.1000808@umn.edu>

Why does a five-year warranty make them great?  I own a couple seagates
and they've been good so far.  But the warranty doesn't really mean
anything.  They probably figured out that if they advertise a five-year
warranty, they'll sell more drives, offsetting (or perhaps even
exceeding) the cost of replacing drives further into the future.

Besides, it's the data that's important, not the drive.  And even if
they make good on the warranty 4 1/2 years from now, it'll probably be a
"refurbished" drive anyway.  Would you trust that?


Jonathan Osborne
WHRE Tech Coordinator
p: 612.624.1217
e: jwo at umn.edu

Marc Skinner said the following on 10/03/2007 16.03
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Troy.A Johnson wrote:
>>>>> On 10/3/2007 at 3:12 PM, in message <4703F7C5.40107 at e-skinner.net>, Marc
>> Skinner <marc at e-skinner.net> wrote:
>>> Chad Walstrom wrote:
>>>> Is it the 7200.10 series or 7200.9 series.  Go for the .10 if you can
>>>> get it.  NewEgg.com has the .10 series for $119 as well.
>>>>
>>> yup it is:
>>> Device Model:     ST3500630AS
>>> 16mb of cache as well!
>> I bought a couple of the 7200.10 disks recently, but one is clicking a bit.
>> It works for now, but I see myself using that warranty sometime in the future.
>>
> 
> i learned my lesson a long time ago, i don't have any drives in my house
> that aren't raid-1 or raid-5.  it is a life saver!  i also do backups of
> my most critical data, so far, raid has saved me from ever having to dip
> into a restore.  but there will come a time.  the seagates are great
> cause they have a 5 year warranty.  i know have 10 of those drives, i'll
> see what happens, but so for 6 of them have been running non-stop for
> about 4 months now, the other 4 i just put into servers today.


From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us  Wed Oct  3 16:51:43 2007
From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 16:51:43 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
In-Reply-To: <47040788.1000808@umn.edu>
References: <47040788.1000808@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <4703C89E.9048.009E.0@health.state.mn.us>

Five year warranties do not make the drives great.
It only means you will probably have a functioning drive for 
the warranty period, whether you have a problem or not.


From trnja001 at umn.edu  Wed Oct  3 17:32:53 2007
From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:32:53 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
In-Reply-To: <4703B67E.9048.009E.0@health.state.mn.us>
References: <4703BC1E.1060901@e-skinner.net>	<14011.1191428675@skuld.wookimus.net>
	<4703F7C5.40107@e-skinner.net>
	<4703B67E.9048.009E.0@health.state.mn.us>
Message-ID: <47041895.6010304@umn.edu>

Troy.A Johnson wrote:
>
> I bought a couple of the 7200.10 disks recently, but one is clicking a bit.
> It works for now, but I see myself using that warranty sometime in the future.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   
I always wondered when hard drive manufacturers would start adding 
support for artificial "hard drive crashing" noises to make users more 
vigilant for data backup. Looks like Seagate is the industry leader in 
this respected.


From dean at ripperd.com  Wed Oct  3 18:36:57 2007
From: dean at ripperd.com (Dean E)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 18:36:57 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] recommendation
In-Reply-To: <47040299.6030603@e-skinner.net>
References: <4572.10.10.1.1.1191425224.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<47040299.6030603@e-skinner.net>
Message-ID: <47042799.3070906@ripperd.com>

Marc Skinner wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> admin at lctn.org wrote:
>> What is a recommended sata raid adapter, that can handle a 2Tb, raid 5
>> configuration?
>>
> 
> i have been using the 8 port Marvell sata2 MG-SA3541 in my home
> fileserver.  i use software raid-5 to keep the cost down, since i don't
> need hardware raid performance.  it was $108 for the card!  works
> awesome with FC6 and gives me 2.4Tb usable.
> 
> i think the question you need to ask, is how many SATA ports do you
> require.
> 
> will it be a 3x1 TB setup or 5x500Gb setup?  do you require a hot spare?
> 
> i have also used adaptec cards, 3ware, siig, highpoint and promise
> controllers over the past serveral years. all are good and have good
> Linux support.

It really depends on what kind of performance the original poster is 
looking for, the load profile, and the budget.

If you need it to be FAST, go 3ware or Areca, no question about it. 
Good driver support.  Low cpu overhead.  All RAID computations are done 
on a dedicated chip on the pci-x or pci-e bus.  Their array monitoring 
software(at least 3ware's) is quite good also.

If you want speed but are on a budget, get regular sata controller(s) 
and do a kernel raid setup (mdadm).  Mdadm can also do scheduled 
verifies, email on degradation, etc.  This is the route I went for my 
home file-server needs.  Just note that your /boot cannot be on a raid0 
or 5 partition as most bootloaders don't understand linux kernel raid. 
You can do it on a raid1 though (mirror).

If you want average performance and more headache in linux, get a cheap 
raid5 controller.  They do operations in a slower software driver using 
your cpu.  MDADM is often faster, and is not very complicated to set-up 
once familiar with it.  DMRAID (which is what you use in linux if you 
use a driver-based raid controller) sometimes can be a pain for people 
to set up.

-Dean


From tclug at beitsahour.net  Wed Oct  3 23:05:53 2007
From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 00:05:53 -0400
Subject: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit and separate wifi
	network?
In-Reply-To: <200710030110.05067.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <20071002193544.GQ8174@iucha.net>
	<fa17c9630710021450w5afcb578gf8f13a52d91e60d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<200710030110.05067.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <fa17c9630710032105r756fb181ydc0a3aa8269ce0e3@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/3/07, Jeremy <tclug at lizakowski.com> wrote:

> If you're seriously offering, we can do it on Wed the 10th.  I just need to
> reserve the room.  Up for it?

i'm up for it. tell me where and when.


From poptix at poptix.net  Wed Oct  3 22:59:26 2007
From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 22:59:26 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
In-Reply-To: <47040788.1000808@umn.edu>
References: <47040788.1000808@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <4704651E.2040404@poptix.net>

Jonathan Osborne wrote:
> Why does a five-year warranty make them great?  I own a couple seagates
> and they've been good so far.  But the warranty doesn't really mean
> anything.  They probably figured out that if they advertise a five-year
> warranty, they'll sell more drives, offsetting (or perhaps even
> exceeding) the cost of replacing drives further into the future.

We have at least 1,000 Seagate drives in production systems right now.

A five year warranty means that Seagate trusts their hardware enough 
that they won't (on average) have to replace the drive within that 
period, otherwise they would lose money on it like the 'other' drive 
makers were before they moved to 1-2 year warranties. Like any company 
offering a warranty, it's a statement of faith in their product.

Seagate has always had a 5 year warranty, it's not a new selling point.


> Besides, it's the data that's important, not the drive.  And even if
> they make good on the warranty 4 1/2 years from now, it'll probably be a
> "refurbished" drive anyway.  Would you trust that?

The 4-4.9 year old 80GB drives we're finally RMA'ing are all coming back 
new or refurbished, usually as 160GB drives. We trust them just as much 
as any drive. What does refurbished mean from Seagate?

a) Someone RMA'd a drive that was perfectly good but had problems with 
their SATA controller, bad SATA cable, etc. Who knows. It passed the 
drive fitness tests at Seagate.

b) Bad logic board, Seagate replaces the logic board, the platters are fine.

c) Bad platters, Seagate replaces the platters, the logic board is fine.


No, I don't work for Seagate but I'm definitely a fan of their products. 
   They're right there with Hitachi when it comes to warranty, RMA 
service and reliability.




From marc at e-skinner.net  Thu Oct  4 08:29:08 2007
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 08:29:08 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
In-Reply-To: <47040788.1000808@umn.edu>
References: <47040788.1000808@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <4704EAA4.4060300@e-skinner.net>

I like the fact that I know I will have a working drive for five years.
 I put my drives in raid sets, so I really don't care if they fail, as
long as two don't at the same time, I'm totally functional.  With other
drives, 1-3 years is more the norm.  If one of those drives failed
outside of the warranty, I have to shell out more money for a
replacement drive.  After five years it is typically more economical
from a cents per GB, and performance to just purchase a better drive
anyway, with Moore's Law and all.

I don't have enough data to say I think Seagate drives are "better" then
Hitachi, Western Digital or Maxtor (now owned by Seagate), but I just
like the fact that I know I can use the drive for 5 years without having
to spend any more money.  I also don't have any problems with a
refurbished drive, as long as it is still under warranty.

Just my 2 cents.


Jonathan Osborne wrote:
> Why does a five-year warranty make them great?  I own a couple seagates
> and they've been good so far.  But the warranty doesn't really mean
> anything.  They probably figured out that if they advertise a five-year
> warranty, they'll sell more drives, offsetting (or perhaps even
> exceeding) the cost of replacing drives further into the future.
> 
> Besides, it's the data that's important, not the drive.  And even if
> they make good on the warranty 4 1/2 years from now, it'll probably be a
> "refurbished" drive anyway.  Would you trust that?
> 
> 
> Jonathan Osborne
> WHRE Tech Coordinator
> p: 612.624.1217
> e: jwo at umn.edu
> 
> Marc Skinner said the following on 10/03/2007 16.03
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Troy.A Johnson wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/3/2007 at 3:12 PM, in message <4703F7C5.40107 at e-skinner.net>, Marc
>>> Skinner <marc at e-skinner.net> wrote:
>>>> Chad Walstrom wrote:
>>>>> Is it the 7200.10 series or 7200.9 series.  Go for the .10 if you can
>>>>> get it.  NewEgg.com has the .10 series for $119 as well.
>>>>>
>>>> yup it is:
>>>> Device Model:     ST3500630AS
>>>> 16mb of cache as well!
>>> I bought a couple of the 7200.10 disks recently, but one is clicking a bit.
>>> It works for now, but I see myself using that warranty sometime in the future.
>>>
>> i learned my lesson a long time ago, i don't have any drives in my house
>> that aren't raid-1 or raid-5.  it is a life saver!  i also do backups of
>> my most critical data, so far, raid has saved me from ever having to dip
>> into a restore.  but there will come a time.  the seagates are great
>> cause they have a 5 year warranty.  i know have 10 of those drives, i'll
>> see what happens, but so for 6 of them have been running non-stop for
>> about 4 months now, the other 4 i just put into servers today.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From cschumann at twp-llc.com  Thu Oct  4 10:04:00 2007
From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 10:04:00 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1624.1191448475.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1624.1191448475.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <58622.192.28.2.17.1191510240.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com>

> From: Jonathan Osborne <jwo at umn.edu>

> Besides, it's the data that's important, not the drive.  And even if
> they make good on the warranty 4 1/2 years from now, it'll probably be a
> "refurbished" drive anyway.  Would you trust that?


From tclug at natecarlson.com  Thu Oct  4 10:27:09 2007
From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 10:27:09 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
In-Reply-To: <58622.192.28.2.17.1191510240.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com>
References: <mailman.1624.1191448475.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<58622.192.28.2.17.1191510240.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0710041026530.11847@iron.msp.technicality.org>

On Thu, 4 Oct 2007, Chris Schumann wrote:
>> Besides, it's the data that's important, not the drive.  And even if
>> they make good on the warranty 4 1/2 years from now, it'll probably be a
>> "refurbished" drive anyway.  Would you trust that?
>
> From day two, the drives you have are used drives. You get your broken 
> used drive swapped out and a working used drive swapped in. It's just as 
> trustworthy as your other used drives and Seagate backs that up with 
> their warranty.

I ahave no problem with refurb drives - they have generally been much more 
heavily tested than new drives.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
| nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com |
|       depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981            |
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From bunjee at charter.net  Thu Oct  4 20:15:24 2007
From: bunjee at charter.net (Danny)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 20:15:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 34, Issue 9
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1191517205.19626.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <3B25C3AE81D04779B893D55E8B6CD7E0@JohnnyPC>

I need some help with Sabayon Linux 3.3. I have installed it on an IDE
160GB HD. I have an Intel Core2Duo 6600 Processor with 2GB memory, and a
Radeon X1950 Pro video card. I also have an Ethernet bridge that picks
up my router which is upstairs. I have no problem getting online with
Vista or XP Pro. However, with Sabayon Linux and it seems like every
other Linux OS, connecting to the Internet is a task I can't figure out.
Please advise.
Thank you!
Dan J.

-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of
tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 12:00 PM
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: tclug-list Digest, Vol 34, Issue 9

Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
	tclug-list at mn-linux.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale! (Elvedin Trnjanin)
   2. Re: recommendation (Dean E)
   3. Re: wireless router with gigabit and separate wifi	network?
      (Munir Nassar)
   4. Re: FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale! (Matthew S. Hallacy)
   5. Re: FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale! (Marc Skinner)
   6. Re: FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale! (Chris Schumann)
   7. Re: FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale! (Nate Carlson)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:32:53 -0500
From: Elvedin Trnjanin <trnja001 at umn.edu>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
To: "Troy.A Johnson" <troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us>
Cc: "tclug-list at mn-linux.org" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <47041895.6010304 at umn.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Troy.A Johnson wrote:
>
> I bought a couple of the 7200.10 disks recently, but one is clicking a
bit.
> It works for now, but I see myself using that warranty sometime in the
future.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   
I always wondered when hard drive manufacturers would start adding 
support for artificial "hard drive crashing" noises to make users more 
vigilant for data backup. Looks like Seagate is the industry leader in 
this respected.



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 18:36:57 -0500
From: Dean E <dean at ripperd.com>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] recommendation
To: TCLUG <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <47042799.3070906 at ripperd.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Marc Skinner wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> admin at lctn.org wrote:
>> What is a recommended sata raid adapter, that can handle a 2Tb, raid
5
>> configuration?
>>
> 
> i have been using the 8 port Marvell sata2 MG-SA3541 in my home
> fileserver.  i use software raid-5 to keep the cost down, since i
don't
> need hardware raid performance.  it was $108 for the card!  works
> awesome with FC6 and gives me 2.4Tb usable.
> 
> i think the question you need to ask, is how many SATA ports do you
> require.
> 
> will it be a 3x1 TB setup or 5x500Gb setup?  do you require a hot
spare?
> 
> i have also used adaptec cards, 3ware, siig, highpoint and promise
> controllers over the past serveral years. all are good and have good
> Linux support.

It really depends on what kind of performance the original poster is 
looking for, the load profile, and the budget.

If you need it to be FAST, go 3ware or Areca, no question about it. 
Good driver support.  Low cpu overhead.  All RAID computations are done 
on a dedicated chip on the pci-x or pci-e bus.  Their array monitoring 
software(at least 3ware's) is quite good also.

If you want speed but are on a budget, get regular sata controller(s) 
and do a kernel raid setup (mdadm).  Mdadm can also do scheduled 
verifies, email on degradation, etc.  This is the route I went for my 
home file-server needs.  Just note that your /boot cannot be on a raid0 
or 5 partition as most bootloaders don't understand linux kernel raid. 
You can do it on a raid1 though (mirror).

If you want average performance and more headache in linux, get a cheap 
raid5 controller.  They do operations in a slower software driver using 
your cpu.  MDADM is often faster, and is not very complicated to set-up 
once familiar with it.  DMRAID (which is what you use in linux if you 
use a driver-based raid controller) sometimes can be a pain for people 
to set up.

-Dean



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 00:05:53 -0400
From: "Munir Nassar" <tclug at beitsahour.net>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit and separate
	wifi	network?
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Message-ID:
	<fa17c9630710032105r756fb181ydc0a3aa8269ce0e3 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On 10/3/07, Jeremy <tclug at lizakowski.com> wrote:

> If you're seriously offering, we can do it on Wed the 10th.  I just
need to
> reserve the room.  Up for it?

i'm up for it. tell me where and when.



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 22:59:26 -0500
From: "Matthew S. Hallacy" <poptix at poptix.net>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Message-ID: <4704651E.2040404 at poptix.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Jonathan Osborne wrote:
> Why does a five-year warranty make them great?  I own a couple
seagates
> and they've been good so far.  But the warranty doesn't really mean
> anything.  They probably figured out that if they advertise a
five-year
> warranty, they'll sell more drives, offsetting (or perhaps even
> exceeding) the cost of replacing drives further into the future.

We have at least 1,000 Seagate drives in production systems right now.

A five year warranty means that Seagate trusts their hardware enough 
that they won't (on average) have to replace the drive within that 
period, otherwise they would lose money on it like the 'other' drive 
makers were before they moved to 1-2 year warranties. Like any company 
offering a warranty, it's a statement of faith in their product.

Seagate has always had a 5 year warranty, it's not a new selling point.


> Besides, it's the data that's important, not the drive.  And even if
> they make good on the warranty 4 1/2 years from now, it'll probably be
a
> "refurbished" drive anyway.  Would you trust that?

The 4-4.9 year old 80GB drives we're finally RMA'ing are all coming back

new or refurbished, usually as 160GB drives. We trust them just as much 
as any drive. What does refurbished mean from Seagate?

a) Someone RMA'd a drive that was perfectly good but had problems with 
their SATA controller, bad SATA cable, etc. Who knows. It passed the 
drive fitness tests at Seagate.

b) Bad logic board, Seagate replaces the logic board, the platters are
fine.

c) Bad platters, Seagate replaces the platters, the logic board is fine.


No, I don't work for Seagate but I'm definitely a fan of their products.

   They're right there with Hitachi when it comes to warranty, RMA 
service and reliability.





------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 08:29:08 -0500
From: Marc Skinner <marc at e-skinner.net>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Message-ID: <4704EAA4.4060300 at e-skinner.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I like the fact that I know I will have a working drive for five years.
 I put my drives in raid sets, so I really don't care if they fail, as
long as two don't at the same time, I'm totally functional.  With other
drives, 1-3 years is more the norm.  If one of those drives failed
outside of the warranty, I have to shell out more money for a
replacement drive.  After five years it is typically more economical
from a cents per GB, and performance to just purchase a better drive
anyway, with Moore's Law and all.

I don't have enough data to say I think Seagate drives are "better" then
Hitachi, Western Digital or Maxtor (now owned by Seagate), but I just
like the fact that I know I can use the drive for 5 years without having
to spend any more money.  I also don't have any problems with a
refurbished drive, as long as it is still under warranty.

Just my 2 cents.


Jonathan Osborne wrote:
> Why does a five-year warranty make them great?  I own a couple
seagates
> and they've been good so far.  But the warranty doesn't really mean
> anything.  They probably figured out that if they advertise a
five-year
> warranty, they'll sell more drives, offsetting (or perhaps even
> exceeding) the cost of replacing drives further into the future.
> 
> Besides, it's the data that's important, not the drive.  And even if
> they make good on the warranty 4 1/2 years from now, it'll probably be
a
> "refurbished" drive anyway.  Would you trust that?
> 
> 
> Jonathan Osborne
> WHRE Tech Coordinator
> p: 612.624.1217
> e: jwo at umn.edu
> 
> Marc Skinner said the following on 10/03/2007 16.03
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Troy.A Johnson wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/3/2007 at 3:12 PM, in message
<4703F7C5.40107 at e-skinner.net>, Marc
>>> Skinner <marc at e-skinner.net> wrote:
>>>> Chad Walstrom wrote:
>>>>> Is it the 7200.10 series or 7200.9 series.  Go for the .10 if you
can
>>>>> get it.  NewEgg.com has the .10 series for $119 as well.
>>>>>
>>>> yup it is:
>>>> Device Model:     ST3500630AS
>>>> 16mb of cache as well!
>>> I bought a couple of the 7200.10 disks recently, but one is clicking
a bit.
>>> It works for now, but I see myself using that warranty sometime in
the future.
>>>
>> i learned my lesson a long time ago, i don't have any drives in my
house
>> that aren't raid-1 or raid-5.  it is a life saver!  i also do backups
of
>> my most critical data, so far, raid has saved me from ever having to
dip
>> into a restore.  but there will come a time.  the seagates are great
>> cause they have a 5 year warranty.  i know have 10 of those drives,
i'll
>> see what happens, but so for 6 of them have been running non-stop for
>> about 4 months now, the other 4 i just put into servers today.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 10:04:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Chris Schumann" <cschumann at twp-llc.com>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
To: <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <58622.192.28.2.17.1191510240.squirrel at alpha.twp-llc.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

> From: Jonathan Osborne <jwo at umn.edu>

> Besides, it's the data that's important, not the drive.  And even if
> they make good on the warranty 4 1/2 years from now, it'll probably be
a
> "refurbished" drive anyway.  Would you trust that?

>From day two, the drives you have are used drives. You get your broken
used drive swapped out and a working used drive swapped in. It's just as
trustworthy as your other used drives and Seagate backs that up with
their
warranty.

Chris






------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 10:27:09 -0500 (CDT)
From: Nate Carlson <tclug at natecarlson.com>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
To: Chris Schumann <cschumann at twp-llc.com>
Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Message-ID:
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0710041026530.11847 at iron.msp.technicality.org>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

On Thu, 4 Oct 2007, Chris Schumann wrote:
>> Besides, it's the data that's important, not the drive.  And even if
>> they make good on the warranty 4 1/2 years from now, it'll probably
be a
>> "refurbished" drive anyway.  Would you trust that?
>
> From day two, the drives you have are used drives. You get your broken

> used drive swapped out and a working used drive swapped in. It's just
as 
> trustworthy as your other used drives and Seagate backs that up with 
> their warranty.

I ahave no problem with refurb drives - they have generally been much
more 
heavily tested than new drives.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
| nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com |
|       depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981            |
------------------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 34, Issue 9
*****************************************


-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
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10/4/2007 5:03 PM



From tclug at lizakowski.com  Thu Oct  4 23:53:11 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 23:53:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
In-Reply-To: <47041895.6010304@umn.edu>
References: <4703BC1E.1060901@e-skinner.net>
	<4703B67E.9048.009E.0@health.state.mn.us>
	<47041895.6010304@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <200710042353.11723.tclug@lizakowski.com>

> I always wondered when hard drive manufacturers would start adding
> support for artificial "hard drive crashing" noises to make users more

Actually, if you disassemble the drive, you can connect an audio source to the 
coils on the head assembly, and play music.  It's not super loud, but it 
works.

Jeremy


On Wednesday 03 October 2007 5:32:53 pm Elvedin Trnjanin wrote:
> Troy.A Johnson wrote:
> > I bought a couple of the 7200.10 disks recently, but one is clicking a
> > bit. It works for now, but I see myself using that warranty sometime in
> > the future.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> I always wondered when hard drive manufacturers would start adding
> support for artificial "hard drive crashing" noises to make users more
> vigilant for data backup. Looks like Seagate is the industry leader in
> this respected.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Fri Oct  5 00:44:14 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 00:44:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200710050544.l955iEr16716@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Free

Subject: proliant servers

Location: Monticello

Proliant server dual 333 mhz 5 9.1 Gb RAID scsi drives, no CDRom.  

Proliant server dual 500 mhz 3 9.1 Gb RAID scsi drives.

Proliant server 700 mhz rack mount.  3 9.1 Gb RAID scsi drives.

Not sure of current RAM configuration, but pretty sure most or all is in the Dual 500 machine as I was playing with that one last.  

The first two are large roll around models, very heavy.

I have to get rid of these this weekend somehow, first to show up and take all 3 will get help loading.

Seller Email address: danyberg at gmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From strayf at freeshell.org  Fri Oct  5 11:16:09 2007
From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steve Cayford)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 11:16:09 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 34, Issue 9
In-Reply-To: <3B25C3AE81D04779B893D55E8B6CD7E0@JohnnyPC>
References: <3B25C3AE81D04779B893D55E8B6CD7E0@JohnnyPC>
Message-ID: <47066349.8040300@freeshell.org>

Danny wrote:
> I need some help with Sabayon Linux 3.3. I have installed it on an IDE
> 160GB HD. I have an Intel Core2Duo 6600 Processor with 2GB memory, and a
> Radeon X1950 Pro video card. I also have an Ethernet bridge that picks
> up my router which is upstairs. I have no problem getting online with
> Vista or XP Pro. However, with Sabayon Linux and it seems like every
> other Linux OS, connecting to the Internet is a task I can't figure out.
> Please advise.
> Thank you!
> Dan J.
> 

Perhaps you could define what you mean by "Ethernet bridge". Is this some sort
of wireless router?

-Steve


From tclug at lizakowski.com  Fri Oct  5 11:22:11 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 11:22:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting Announcement:  Wed Oct 10, 6:30 - 8:00 pm
In-Reply-To: <fa17c9630710032105r756fb181ydc0a3aa8269ce0e3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net>
	<200710030110.05067.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<fa17c9630710032105r756fb181ydc0a3aa8269ce0e3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200710051122.11616.tclug@lizakowski.com>


The next TCLUG meeting is coming soon!

Munir will be talking about iptables.  If anyone else has any topics or things 
to discuss, just let me know.

NOTE:  there is a room change.  This is a smaller room in the main part of the 
building.  It only seats 50  ;)

 Date: Wed, Oct 10th
 Time: 6:30 - 8:00 pm
 University of Minnesota Minneapolis campus, EE/CSci Building , Room: 3-110
 200 Union St SE, Minneapolis 55455


On Wednesday 03 October 2007 11:05:53 pm Munir Nassar wrote:
> On 10/3/07, Jeremy <tclug at lizakowski.com> wrote:
> > If you're seriously offering, we can do it on Wed the 10th.  I just need
> > to reserve the room.  Up for it?
>
> i'm up for it. tell me where and when.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




From nicholas.thompson1 at mchsi.com  Sun Oct  7 15:57:46 2007
From: nicholas.thompson1 at mchsi.com (nick thompson)
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 20:57:46 -0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Zonbu
In-Reply-To: <38aa5b6a0710021724ndf5647dq3fc479060e54613a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34b4c76d0710011053r5a8ea821xdc990506fa2c6b0b@mail.gmail.com>	<470145F0.6030301@cdf123.net>
	<470198E8.8050205@freeshell.org>	<47025100.2060401@packetgod.com>	<38aa5b6a0710021220i499efe75wac3636fd6a927d7f@mail.gmail.com>	<d3cf65830710021434g3c08651aqc2c72d5c84c81cda@mail.gmail.com>
	<38aa5b6a0710021724ndf5647dq3fc479060e54613a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <39DF8E30.9000108@mchsi.com>

J Cruit wrote:
> Cool beans, just to update you the site is now:
> http://www.dataevolution.com/dectop%20info%202.htm
> <http://www.dataevolution.com/dectop%20info%202.htm> as apparently
> they bought Norhtek.  And the device is a dectop for only 99$ (or buy
> 3 get one free, anybody want to split an order?).  So other than the
> fact that it doesn't have a flash drive as a hard drive and starts out
> at 128MB of memory thats a pretty good deal.  But you can swap out the
> hard drive for a larger one and upgrade the memory too if you want. 
> Plus the Norhtek sounds like it uses an AMD chip so there may be
> better compatibility than the unknown one in the Zonbu.  Plus the
> Zonbu is theoretically "greener".
>
> But at 99$ versus 249$ I'm probably down with the Norhtek.  Any other
> super small cheap systems out there?
>
> --j
I'd be in for an order. 2 people x $150 or 4 people x $75? Now that's
the question. :)

Regards,

Nick

"All unix, all the time."

http://npt.ath.cx
>
> On 10/2/07, * Spence Morris* <spence.morris at gmail.com
> <mailto:spence.morris at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Zonbu is pretty much a generic unit with their own variant of
>     Linux tacked on.
>     The idea of the network being the computer has yet to fully prove
>     itself>
>     There are other mini pc builders with fewer hooks and agendas- re
>     again, Norhtek-
>     based in Thailand. Michael C. Barnes sells a lot of his units
>     here- At last look,
>     he had four or five nice models to choose from and good ideas
>     about use.
>     Check out Norhtek.com <http://Norhtek.com> before investing in Zonbu.
>
>     On 10/2/07, *J Cruit* < j at packetgod.com <mailto:j at packetgod.com>>
>     wrote:
>
>         So I e-mailed Zonbu and got a quick response, I think this may
>         be the exact platform I've been looking for to use for a small
>         quiet Mythfrontend system.  I'll have to figure out some sort
>         of USB remote, and my TV does actually have a VGA input so I
>         should be good there.  My other options were a repurposed
>         MacMini, a shuttle  SD02 for 499$ (without memory, HD,
>         Processor, etc but with a remote port).
>
>         This is the response from Zonbu:
>
>         "Yes, you are free to do as you wish with the Zo