From anna2edw at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  1 17:12:54 2007
From: anna2edw at yahoo.com (Anna Edwards)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 15:12:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] happy halloween
Message-ID: <494219.38576.qm@web33708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

happy halloween!

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From anna2edw at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  1 17:33:56 2007
From: anna2edw at yahoo.com (Anna Edwards)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 15:33:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] happy halloween
Message-ID: <468443.93389.qm@web33710.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

happy halloween!

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Thu Nov  1 18:46:15 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 18:46:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200711012346.lA1NkF731467@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Free

Subject: GDM1962b 19inch Sun CRT

Old heavy bulletproof 19" Sun-Xerox-Sony monitor.  13w3 connector.  Could be made to work with a PC with the right cable <not included> KNOWN good/tested.
Free to first taker.

Seller Email address: tletofsky at umwcs dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From joey.rockhold at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 20:04:08 2007
From: joey.rockhold at gmail.com (Joey Rockhold)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 20:04:08 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Smartphones
In-Reply-To: <34de7f3d0710310515l64ce81c1o1f059bc3a1e8a273@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34de7f3d0710310515l64ce81c1o1f059bc3a1e8a273@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <101e49ea0711021804i8187c36y72227a930fc62acf@mail.gmail.com>

Looks like everyone is giving good advice.  I use a Palm z22 with Ubuntu,
and when you get it configured correctly, it does work well.  This is not a
smartphone, just a regular PDA, but I did want to mention that it took lots
of research with google and ubuntu forums to get linux to see it.  It all
boiled down to one setting that was a little unique.  So if after you get
your new phone, you have troubles getting Ubuntu to detect it, let me know
and I'll type up the directions on what I did to connect it.

Otherwise... Linux works great with Palm.  I recommend JPilot over the
built-in Gnome software, but that is more personal preference on how I like
to use it.  And JPilot offers backup and restore capabilities, sotware
installation, etc. all in the same app.

Good luck!

On Oct 31, 2007 7:15 AM, Troy <troythetechguy at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm considering purchasing a smart phone.  I'm currently a Sprint
> customer, and want to stay with Sprint because of the excellent reception I
> receive.  Thus far, I've narrowed my options to the Palm Centro and the Palm
> 755p, but I have a few questions before making my decision final.
>
> 1.  How does the Palm OS work with Linux?  Is there currently software
> available on Linux for syncing with the Palm?  I'm currently running Ubuntu
> 7.10.
> 2.  Can someone who's used either phone share some pros and cons?
> 3.  The primary use of the phone is for contacts, scheduling, and as a
> phone.  However, I will use the internet frequently between appointments.
> One feature neither device has is wifi, but I'm not sure if wifi is
> necessary with Sprints EVDO.  Is there another phone I should consider?
> 4.  Being a Linux buff, I'd like nothing more than to have a smart phone
> that runs Linux.  Does anyone know of a smart phone that runs Linux and will
> work on the Sprint network?
>
> Thanks for your help and advice.
>
> Troy
>
> --
> Website of the week:
> http://www.treehugger.com
>
> The Free Alternative to M$ Office:
> http://www.openoffice.org
>
> My Blog:
> http://troythetechguy.blogspot.com
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From andyzib at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 20:15:42 2007
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 20:15:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Smartphones
In-Reply-To: <101e49ea0711021804i8187c36y72227a930fc62acf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34de7f3d0710310515l64ce81c1o1f059bc3a1e8a273@mail.gmail.com>
	<101e49ea0711021804i8187c36y72227a930fc62acf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e3a54b020711021815t47914dcn31972219dbda094@mail.gmail.com>

Now that you mention it, I remember JPilot. I second that recommendation.

Figuring out the quirks to get your Palm detected is usually the worst
part. I always felt that syncing in using OSS software on Linux was
better than syncing with Palm's software on Windows.

These days I've mostly written off smart phones as a dumb idea (still
have and use two of them), but that's a rant for another day and
another place. ;-)

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
0 rows returned


From sraun at fireopal.org  Sat Nov  3 15:14:41 2007
From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 15:14:41 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] find question
Message-ID: <20071103201441.GA29219@fireopal.org>

I know that wonderful things can be done with find - I want to know if
this command line does what I want:

find . - name [filename] -execdir cp [path to master][filename] .;

I have a directory tree with with a LOT of a couple of specific files
in various sub-directories.  Unfortunately, there's a more recent
version of these couple of files - I want to replace all of the of the
existing instances with the current version.  I can make certain I
have a current version in an arbitrary location (AKA [path to
master]).  So, would this command line accomplish the above?  Yes, a
symlink to the master from all the directories might be better - but I
copy individual sub-directories out to other media - I feel safer
having the actual file there.

-- 
Scott Raun
sraun at fireopal.org


From strayf at freeshell.org  Sat Nov  3 15:46:26 2007
From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steve Cayford)
Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2007 15:46:26 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] find question
In-Reply-To: <20071103201441.GA29219@fireopal.org>
References: <20071103201441.GA29219@fireopal.org>
Message-ID: <472CDE22.5030609@freeshell.org>

Scott Raun wrote:
> I know that wonderful things can be done with find - I want to know if
> this command line does what I want:
> 
> find . - name [filename] -execdir cp [path to master][filename] .;

Seems to work for me:

find . -name test.txt -execdir cp /home/steve/test.txt {} \;

Test it first with:

find . -name test.txt -execdir echo cp /home/steve/test.txt {} \;

-Steve



From anna2edw at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  4 02:12:42 2007
From: anna2edw at yahoo.com (Anna Edwards)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 01:12:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Server Issues
Message-ID: <490133.61156.qm@web33706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I just set up a ubuntu 7.10 server (to do the wrong task) and i don't know how to make it work without me having a screen on it 24-7 (i only have one monitor and 2 computers needing one).  Can someone help me fix this?
  Linux User in distress: Anna Edwards
   

 __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
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From erikerik at gmail.com  Sun Nov  4 07:50:27 2007
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 08:50:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Server Issues
In-Reply-To: <490133.61156.qm@web33706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <490133.61156.qm@web33706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fc40260f0711040550v2b749366yb6bafb28b7766d5@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/4/07, Anna Edwards <anna2edw at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I just set up a ubuntu 7.10 server (to do the wrong task) and i don't know
> how to make it work without me having a screen on it 24-7 (i only have one
> monitor and 2 computers needing one).  Can someone help me fix this?
> Linux User in distress: Anna Edwards

So you want to run this server headless, correct?  What happens when
you start it up without a monitor?  Usually systems could care less if
they have a monitor connected.  In fact, I don't believe I've *ever*
seen a system not come up correctly due to a missing/broken monitor.
Missing keyboard?  Sure - some non-server class BIOSes check for a
keyboard during POST and if absent, will refuse to continue the boot
process.  This can usually be disable, though.  I'm just grasping at
straws, though.

In order to correctly diagnose your problem, we'll need more info.
What's your desired task for this server?  What happens when the
monitor is not connected?

-Erik


From jeruvin at gmail.com  Sun Nov  4 08:50:51 2007
From: jeruvin at gmail.com (jason reynolds)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 09:50:51 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Server Issues
In-Reply-To: <490133.61156.qm@web33706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <490133.61156.qm@web33706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6eb23c4e0711040650v1f1436d6rd1bba7b28458120d@mail.gmail.com>

You'll want to setup openssh-server for remote console. Make sure your
server has a static ip so you always know what ip address to connect to.
There are a number of guides on the web that show how to set this up using
the command prompt.

I have some instructions on my website that should work for 7.10 (I tested
them in 7.04). It's mostly my own notes but is pretty complete.

jason

On 11/4/07, Anna Edwards <anna2edw at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I just set up a ubuntu 7.10 server (to do the wrong task) and i don't know
> how to make it work without me having a screen on it 24-7 (i only have one
> monitor and 2 computers needing one).  Can someone help me fix this?
> Linux User in distress: Anna Edwards
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From canito at dalan.us  Sun Nov  4 10:10:56 2007
From: canito at dalan.us (David Alanis)
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2007 10:10:56 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Wanted 2.5" HDD
Message-ID: <20071104101056.2vnnefd8e8o8k00g@mail.dalan.us>

Good Sunday:

Looking for a used 20G minimum 2.5" HDD for an old Toshiba Laptop.

Prefer close to the Bloomington area.

Thank you,
David A.

----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.



From anna2edw at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  4 12:37:30 2007
From: anna2edw at yahoo.com (Anna Edwards)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 10:37:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Server Issues
In-Reply-To: <6eb23c4e0711040650v1f1436d6rd1bba7b28458120d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <867297.74644.qm@web33706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Problome is, i want to know how to find out it's ip-address (i don't know how to set up a static ip-address and the computers stick to there own ip address)
I need it to do 2 tasks, storage and lamp.
jason reynolds <jeruvin at gmail.com> wrote:
  You'll want to setup openssh-server for remote console. Make sure your server has a static ip so you always know what ip address to connect to. There are a number of guides on the web that show how to set this up using the command prompt. 

I have some instructions on my website that should work for 7.10 (I tested them in 7.04). It's mostly my own notes but is pretty complete.

jason

  On 11/4/07, Anna Edwards <anna2edw at yahoo.com> wrote:    I just set up a ubuntu 7.10 server (to do the wrong task) and i don't know how to make it work without me having a screen on it 24-7 (i only have one monitor and 2 computers needing one).  Can someone help me fix this? 
  Linux User in distress: Anna Edwards
   
  __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota 
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list





 __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
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From jeruvin at gmail.com  Sun Nov  4 12:47:26 2007
From: jeruvin at gmail.com (jason reynolds)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 13:47:26 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Server Issues
In-Reply-To: <867297.74644.qm@web33706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <6eb23c4e0711040650v1f1436d6rd1bba7b28458120d@mail.gmail.com>
	<867297.74644.qm@web33706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6eb23c4e0711041047q5aac6bcfta428cb280325076f@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.aperfectshadow.com/wiki/doku.php?id=ubuntu_server is my site with
some information on how i setup my server. It's for 7.04, but should work
with 7.10

ifconfig will tell you what ip address you have.

jason

On 11/4/07, Anna Edwards <anna2edw at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Problome is, i want to know how to find out it's ip-address (i don't know
> how to set up a static ip-address and the computers stick to there own ip
> address)
> I need it to do 2 tasks, storage and lamp.
> *jason reynolds <jeruvin at gmail.com>* wrote:
>
> You'll want to setup openssh-server for remote console. Make sure your
> server has a static ip so you always know what ip address to connect to.
> There are a number of guides on the web that show how to set this up using
> the command prompt.
>
> I have some instructions on my website that should work for 7.10 (I tested
> them in 7.04). It's mostly my own notes but is pretty complete.
>
> jason
>
> On 11/4/07, Anna Edwards <anna2edw at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > I just set up a ubuntu 7.10 server (to do the wrong task) and i don't
> > know how to make it work without me having a screen on it 24-7 (i only have
> > one monitor and 2 computers needing one).  Can someone help me fix this?
> > Linux User in distress: Anna Edwards
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
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From chewie at wookimus.net  Mon Nov  5 08:58:52 2007
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 08:58:52 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Smartphones
In-Reply-To: <e3a54b020711021815t47914dcn31972219dbda094@mail.gmail.com> 
References: <34de7f3d0710310515l64ce81c1o1f059bc3a1e8a273@mail.gmail.com>
	<101e49ea0711021804i8187c36y72227a930fc62acf@mail.gmail.com>
	<e3a54b020711021815t47914dcn31972219dbda094@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <12262.1194274732@skuld.wookimus.net>

Andy is absolutely right about Palm Desktop (PD) being crapola.  JPilot
worked SO much better.  PD tries to be smart about things, but
ultimately fails when you have multiple vendors trying to be
"authoritative" over the data being synced.  At UofMN, OIT had purchased
and supported an Oracle product (which ironically wasn't built on Oracle
technology at all), which had its own synchronization plugin.  That
plugin interacted badly if you wanted to sync the data to both that app
and the Palm Desktop app, which was needed for migration from one to the
other, or for those instances where people preferred their PD software
for most everything else, but the Oracle software for calendaring.

All in all, JPilot works awesome.  If I had a Palm PDA, I would be using
it today.  As it stands, I'll keep my index cards around. ;-)

Chad


From auditodd at comcast.net  Mon Nov  5 09:31:35 2007
From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 15:31:35 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Server Issues
Message-ID: <110520071531.29878.472F37570003CCD7000074B622007511500B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net>

I would have to agree with others.
It's not the video that is the problem, but most likely a keyboard.

Hook up video only and watch the POST error.
I'll bet it complains about a keyboard.

Some BIOS will allow to set "halt on no error" or something similar so that it doesn't care if it doesn't find a keyboard.
Some BIOS don't have that option.
I have two Compaq desktops that I use for firewalls.
There is no option in the BIOS to continue after errors and it must have a keyboard attached.
So I tore apart a keyboard and took the PC board, wrapped it in electrical tape and stuck it inside the case and ran the cable out and plugged it into the keyboard socket. Works fine.

On the other hand, I have some HP desktops that complain about not having a keyboard, but they continue to boot which is nice. It just adds a few seconds to the boot process.

--
==========
Todd Young

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Anna Edwards <anna2edw at yahoo.com>
> I just set up a ubuntu 7.10 server (to do the wrong task) and i don't know how 
> to make it work without me having a screen on it 24-7 (i only have one monitor 
> and 2 computers needing one).  Can someone help me fix this?
>   Linux User in distress: Anna Edwards
>    

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Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Server Issues
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 08:18:53 +0000
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From erikerik at gmail.com  Mon Nov  5 09:41:09 2007
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 09:41:09 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Server Issues
In-Reply-To: <867297.74644.qm@web33706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <6eb23c4e0711040650v1f1436d6rd1bba7b28458120d@mail.gmail.com>
	<867297.74644.qm@web33706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fc40260f0711050741r945e1efv20256049b7273266@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/4/07, Anna Edwards <anna2edw at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Problome is, i want to know how to find out it's ip-address (i don't know
> how to set up a static ip-address and the computers stick to there own ip
> address)
> I need it to do 2 tasks, storage and lamp.

Anna - it sounds like all you need to do is get this server switched
over to a static IP address, correct?  If so, it's *really* simple in
ubuntu (and most other linux distros as well).  Just follow this
guide:

http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/ubuntu/change-ubuntu-server-from-dhcp-to-a-static-ip-address/


From andyzib at gmail.com  Mon Nov  5 09:58:12 2007
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 09:58:12 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Server Issues
In-Reply-To: <867297.74644.qm@web33706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <6eb23c4e0711040650v1f1436d6rd1bba7b28458120d@mail.gmail.com>
	<867297.74644.qm@web33706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e3a54b020711050758p6e67e211l8e96413752785b91@mail.gmail.com>

> Problome is, i want to know how to find out it's ip-address (i don't know
> how to set up a static ip-address and the computers stick to there own ip
> address)
> I need it to do 2 tasks, storage and lamp.

Is it getting a public IP address, or is it behind a NAT router on a
private subnet (10.0.0.0 - 10.255.255.255, 172.16.0.0 -
172.31.255.255, 192.168.0.0 - 192.168.255.255). If it's got a public
address, http://www.dyndns.com/ is an easy solution. There is a Linux
client for dyndns (ddclient) that will update the IP address for you
so you can connect to hostname.dyndns.org (or whatever domain you
pick.)

If you're on a private network you'll want to check with your network
administrator to see if you can get a static IP address assigned to
you, or if you can get a DHCP reservation for your computer.

Or if you don't want to talk to your network people and your DHCP
server is integrated with DNS (if you're in an Active Directory
environment, assume that it is.) all you have to do is configure your
Ubuntu computer to send it's hostname with the DHCP request and you
will be able to simply go to hostname (ssh user at hostname,
http://hostname, etc.)

On Ubuntu, you have to edit /etc/dhcp3/dhclient.conf. Add a line to the file:
send host-name "yourhostnamehere";
Save the file, then ifdown eth0; ifup eth0 (assuming eth0 is your NIC).

Ubuntu has a nice GUI tool for configuring your network interfaces,
but if you're going console only that's fine too. Edit
/etc/network/interfaces. Use man interfaces for viewing the
documentation for the interfaces file.

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
0 rows returned


From tclug at lizakowski.com  Mon Nov  5 12:05:21 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 13:05:21 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  Wed, Nov 7, 6:30 - 8:00pm
Message-ID: <200711051205.21920.tclug@lizakowski.com>


The next TCLUG meeting is coming soon!

This month's meeting will feature Jeremy White, CEO and founder of 
Codeweavers, the makers of Wine.  

Freshly back from the annual Wine technical conference in Zurich, Jeremy will 
report on the state of Wine. That will include some history and an 
explanation of what Wine is and how it works. It will also include a roadmap 
for Wine, including the road to Wine 1.0, as well as flashy demos.

Jeremy White is the founder and CEO of CodeWeavers. CodeWeavers hs been 
working for the past 7 years to make the Wine project capable of running 
Windows software on Linux - all without needing Windows itself. Jeremy is 
also a member of the Desktop Architects working group of the Linux 
Foundation, and has long been a passionate advocate for the growth of the 
Linux Desktop. He lives in St. Paul with his wife and 2 children.

NOTE: ?there is a room change. ?

?Date: Wed, Nov 7th
?Time: 6:30 - 8:00 pm
?University of Minnesota Minneapolis campus, EE/CSci Building , Room: 3-115
?200 Union St SE, Minneapolis 55455
 
 http://www.tclug.org



From cschumann at twp-llc.com  Mon Nov  5 12:16:28 2007
From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 12:16:28 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Server Issues
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1194285606.16034.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1.1194285606.16034.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <2781.192.28.2.17.1194286588.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com>

>   On 11/4/07, Anna Edwards <anna2edw at yahoo.com> wrote:    I just set up
> a ubuntu 7.10 server (to do the wrong task) and i don't know how to
> make it work without me having a screen on it 24-7 (i only have one
> monitor and 2 computers needing one).  Can someone help me fix this?
> Linux User in distress: Anna Edwards

In addition to the BIOS settings mentioned, and setting a static IP
(either public or private), many (most?) KVM switches will send signals to
machines to bluff them into thinking there is a keyboard and mouse present
at all times.

Or you could look for something like a dummy keyboard plug... like this:
http://www.dummykeyboard.co.uk/dummykeyboardplug.html




From jima at beer.tclug.org  Mon Nov  5 12:32:53 2007
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 12:32:53 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Server Issues
In-Reply-To: <110520071531.29878.472F37570003CCD7000074B622007511500B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net>
References: <110520071531.29878.472F37570003CCD7000074B622007511500B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0711051228550.4486@beer.tclug.org>

On Mon, 5 Nov 2007, auditodd at comcast.net wrote:
> Some BIOS will allow to set "halt on no error" or something similar so 
> that it doesn't care if it doesn't find a keyboard.
> Some BIOS don't have that option.
> I have two Compaq desktops that I use for firewalls.
> There is no option in the BIOS to continue after errors and it must have 
> a keyboard attached.
> So I tore apart a keyboard and took the PC board, wrapped it in 
> electrical tape and stuck it inside the case and ran the cable out and 
> plugged it into the keyboard socket. Works fine.

  I'm guessing you're unaware that Compaq has a DOS executable called 
NO_F1.COM that, once run, makes the machine not dependent on having a 
keyboard attached?  Toss it on a bootable DOS floppy (FreeDOS?), boot the 
machine, run NO_F1, reboot.  Should be good.  (It's worked on every Compaq 
I've tried it on, anyway, including a Proliant 5000R.)

      Jima


From anna2edw at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  6 15:39:35 2007
From: anna2edw at yahoo.com (Anna Edwards)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 13:39:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Server Issues
In-Reply-To: <e3a54b020711050758p6e67e211l8e96413752785b91@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <686300.40335.qm@web33710.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



Andrew Zbikowski wrote: 
>> Problome is, i want to know how to find out it's ip-address (i don't know
>> how to set up a static ip-address and the computers stick to there own ip
>> address)
>> I need it to do 2 tasks, storage and lamp.
> Is it getting a public IP address, or is it behind a NAT router on a
> private subnet (10.0.0.0 - 10.255.255.255, 172.16.0.0 -
> 172.31.255.255, 192.168.0.0 - 192.168.255.255). If it's got a public
> address, http://www.dyndns.com/ is an easy solution. There is a Linux
> client for dyndns (ddclient) that will update the IP address for you
> so you can connect to hostname.dyndns.org (or whatever domain you
> pick.)
> If you're on a private network you'll want to check with your network
> administrator to see if you can get a static IP address assigned to
> you, or if you can get a DHCP reservation for your computer.
> Or if you don't want to talk to your network people and your DHCP
> server is integrated with DNS (if you're in an Active Directory
> environment, assume that it is.) all you have to do is configure your
> Ubuntu computer to send it's hostname with the DHCP request and you
> will be able to simply go to hostname (ssh user at hostname,
> http://hostname, etc.)
> On Ubuntu, you have to edit /etc/dhcp3/dhclient.conf. Add a line to the file:
> send host-name "yourhostnamehere";
> Save the file, then ifdown eth0; ifup eth0 (assuming eth0 is your NIC).
> Ubuntu has a nice GUI tool for configuring your network interfaces,
> but if you're going console only that's fine too. Edit
> /etc/network/interfaces. Use man interfaces for viewing the
> documentation for the interfaces file.
> -- 
> Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
> SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
> 0 rows returned
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From anna2edw at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  7 07:19:46 2007
From: anna2edw at yahoo.com (Anna Edwards)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 05:19:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [tclug-list] using linux to move mods to my moto
Message-ID: <876891.94522.qm@web33710.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

hi. i have a moto razr v3r, and want to take a mod someone made to my phone.  i have all the junk to do it. the question is how. anna

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From tclug at freakzilla.com  Wed Nov  7 10:24:12 2007
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:24:12 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] using linux to move mods to my moto
In-Reply-To: <876891.94522.qm@web33710.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <876891.94522.qm@web33710.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0711071023410.29980@Rooster>

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007, Anna Edwards wrote:

> hi. i have a moto razr v3r, and want to take a mod someone made to my phone.  i have all the junk to do it. the question is how. anna

http://www.modmymoto.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=33

Might help.

-Yaron

--


From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Wed Nov  7 12:14:19 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 12:14:19 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200711071814.lA7IEJa06567@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: Dell PowerEdge 1300 Server

Dell PowerEdge 1300 Server For Sale.

Specs - 

* 2x 700mhz Intel Pentium 3 cpu's                 
* 1gb pc-100 ECC Memory
* Promise SX4060 PATA Raid Card with 256mb pc133 non-ecc attached (Maxed out)
* Either 2x100gb drives or 3x 40gb drives
* Dell Provided Intel Pro/100 network card (10/100mb)
* Sony CD-Rw, and a Toshiba Dvd player.

**Notice, Either Hard-drive configuration doesn't come with an Operating System, nor licence keys.**

Also, Hard-drives will be wiped to 7Pass D.O.D Specifications.

Asking Price $120.00 Obo



Seller Email address: blacknight_709 at hotmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From tclug at lizakowski.com  Wed Nov  7 13:44:37 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 14:44:37 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <200711051205.21920.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <200711051205.21920.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <200711071344.37479.tclug@lizakowski.com>


The next TCLUG meeting is tonight!

This month's meeting will feature Jeremy White, CEO and founder of
Codeweavers, the makers of Wine.

Freshly back from the annual Wine technical conference in Zurich, Jeremy
will report on the state of Wine. That will include some history and an
explanation of what Wine is and how it works. It will also include a
roadmap for Wine, including the road to Wine 1.0, as well as flashy demos.

Jeremy White is the founder and CEO of CodeWeavers. CodeWeavers hs been
working for the past 7 years to make the Wine project capable of running
Windows software on Linux - all without needing Windows itself. Jeremy is
also a member of the Desktop Architects working group of the Linux
Foundation, and has long been a passionate advocate for the growth of the
Linux Desktop. He lives in St. Paul with his wife and 2 children.

NOTE:  there is a room change.  

 Date: Wed, Nov 7th
 Time: 6:30 - 8:00 pm
 University of Minnesota Minneapolis campus, EE/CSci Building , Room: 3-115
 200 Union St SE, Minneapolis 55455

 http://www.tclug.org



From anna2edw at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  7 16:07:18 2007
From: anna2edw at yahoo.com (Anna Edwards)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 14:07:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [tclug-list] internet speed testing program
Message-ID: <130624.51802.qm@web33708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

i need a program that pings several servers (decided by a main server) and records ping times to send to the home server. can someone help me with it?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From tclug at lizakowski.com  Wed Nov  7 16:14:34 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 17:14:34 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] internet speed testing program
In-Reply-To: <130624.51802.qm@web33708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <130624.51802.qm@web33708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200711071614.35202.tclug@lizakowski.com>


What languages do you know?

Jeremy

On Wednesday 07 November 2007 4:07:18 pm Anna Edwards wrote:
> i need a program that pings several servers (decided by a main server) and
> records ping times to send to the home server. can someone help me with it?
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Wed Nov  7 16:43:42 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 16:43:42 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] internet speed testing program
In-Reply-To: <130624.51802.qm@web33708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <130624.51802.qm@web33708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711071628260.2122@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007, Anna Edwards wrote:

> i need a program that pings several servers (decided by a main server) 
> and records ping times to send to the home server. can someone help me 
> with it?

If you have a web server on the "main server" and can receive email on the 
home server, you could do something like this in a bash script:

wget http://main.server/ping_list.txt
for server in $(cat ping_list.txt); do echo $server >> ping_out.txt ; ping -c 5 $server | tail -1 >> ping_out.txt ; done
mail pingtimes at home.server < ping_out.txt

Possibly better to use scp for file transfers instead of wget and mail, 
but I don't know the trick to doing scp without interaction for the 
authentication.  There is a way to set up some kind of "keygen" thing -- 
someone else will have to say.

If you do this using scp, you'll have to have a way to take the incoming 
data file and append it to previous files, or maybe just give it a 
different name based on the time.

Mike


From cncole at earthlink.net  Wed Nov  7 16:43:00 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 16:43:00 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <200711071344.37479.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGIEADCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

Sounds like a good program, but the location is very bad, and it's
especially inaccessible at that time of day during the week.

Is TCLUG just for the UMN student group now?


Chuck



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jeremy
> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 1:45 PM
> To: tclug-announce at mn-linux.org
> Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting: TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
>
>
>
> The next TCLUG meeting is tonight!
>
> This month's meeting will feature Jeremy White, CEO and founder of
> Codeweavers, the makers of Wine.
>
> Freshly back from the annual Wine technical conference in Zurich, Jeremy
> will report on the state of Wine. That will include some history and an
> explanation of what Wine is and how it works. It will also include a
> roadmap for Wine, including the road to Wine 1.0, as well as flashy demos.
>
>
>  Date: Wed, Nov 7th
>  Time: 6:30 - 8:00 pm
>  University of Minnesota Minneapolis campus, EE/CSci Building ,
> Room: 3-115
>  200 Union St SE, Minneapolis 55455
>
>  http://www.tclug.org
>




From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Wed Nov  7 17:03:01 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 17:03:01 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGIEADCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGIEADCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711071654470.2122@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007, Chuck Cole wrote:

> Sounds like a good program, but the location is very bad, and it's 
> especially inaccessible at that time of day during the week.

Why is it "especially inaccessible" at 6:30 pm on a Wednesday?  There is a 
big parking ramp -- the Washington Ave Ramp -- right next door to the 
EE/CSci building.  It does cost something to park there:

http://www1.umn.edu/twincities/maps/WashRamp/

0 - 1 hours, $2.50
1 - 2 hours, $5.00

I agree with your implied concern about cost of parking because it would 
be better to have meetings where parking is free.


> Is TCLUG just for the UMN student group now?

Don't forget faculty!  ;-)

I'll bet you can recommend a place a block or two from your home that 
would be just perfect.  Seriously, where did you want to meet?

Mike


>>  Date: Wed, Nov 7th
>>  Time: 6:30 - 8:00 pm
>>  University of Minnesota Minneapolis campus, EE/CSci Building, Room: 3-115
>>  200 Union St SE, Minneapolis 55455
>>
>>  http://www.tclug.org


From tclug at lizakowski.com  Wed Nov  7 17:02:50 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 18:02:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGIEADCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGIEADCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <200711071702.50833.tclug@lizakowski.com>

> Is TCLUG just for the UMN student group now?

The UofM is a central location that is on the Bus line, near light rail, and 
within walking distance of a densly populated area.  

We also have access to excellent facilities, free of charge, and without any 
corporate bias.  The UofM is also interested in actively assisting us with 
events like an installfest.

The location does make it easy for students and faculty to attend, which 
comprise a large body of Linux users (largely Ubuntu).  I would guess it's 
the most dense area of Linux usage in the metro.  However, we do not 
specifically focus on UMN students.

It is open to all, and you are welcome to attend.  

Jeremy

On Wednesday 07 November 2007 4:43:00 pm Chuck Cole wrote:
> Sounds like a good program, but the location is very bad, and it's
> especially inaccessible at that time of day during the week.
>
> Is TCLUG just for the UMN student group now?
>
>
> Chuck
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jeremy
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 1:45 PM
> > To: tclug-announce at mn-linux.org
> > Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting: TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
> >
> >
> >
> > The next TCLUG meeting is tonight!
> >
> > This month's meeting will feature Jeremy White, CEO and founder of
> > Codeweavers, the makers of Wine.
> >
> > Freshly back from the annual Wine technical conference in Zurich, Jeremy
> > will report on the state of Wine. That will include some history and an
> > explanation of what Wine is and how it works. It will also include a
> > roadmap for Wine, including the road to Wine 1.0, as well as flashy
> > demos.
> >
> >
> >  Date: Wed, Nov 7th
> >  Time: 6:30 - 8:00 pm
> >  University of Minnesota Minneapolis campus, EE/CSci Building ,
> > Room: 3-115
> >  200 Union St SE, Minneapolis 55455
> >
> >  http://www.tclug.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




From cncole at earthlink.net  Wed Nov  7 17:18:24 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 17:18:24 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711071654470.2122@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCEEDALFAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Miller [mailto:mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 5:03 PM
> To: Chuck Cole
> Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting: TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
>
>
> On Wed, 7 Nov 2007, Chuck Cole wrote:
>
> > Sounds like a good program, but the location is very bad, and it's
> > especially inaccessible at that time of day during the week.
>
> Why is it "especially inaccessible" at 6:30 pm on a Wednesday?

Rush "hour" traffic all over the cities and around UMN.

> 0 - 1 hours, $2.50
> 1 - 2 hours, $5.00

Serious nuisance.

> I agree with your implied concern about cost of parking because it would
> be better to have meetings where parking is free.

.. and where working professionals are

> > Is TCLUG just for the UMN student group now?
>
> Don't forget faculty!  ;-)

Aren't you the only one?  You just fell off the bell curve  :-)

> I'll bet you can recommend a place a block or two from your home that
> would be just perfect.  Seriously, where did you want to meet?

Away from UMN or St Thomas U.  The TIES location is vastly superior on all
counts plus a few more.  There are other locations as are frequented by the
various professional associations in town.

Would not generally recommend a place near my home in Apple Valley, though
TCLUG did have one of its best installfests nearby.


Chuck





From tclug at lizakowski.com  Wed Nov  7 17:19:27 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 18:19:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711071654470.2122@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGIEADCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0711071654470.2122@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <200711071719.27950.tclug@lizakowski.com>

> http://www1.umn.edu/twincities/maps/WashRamp/
> 0 - 1 hours, $2.50
> 1 - 2 hours, $5.00
> I agree with your implied concern about cost of parking because it would
> be better to have meetings where parking is free.

Also, there is free street parking in the residential part of Stadium Village, 
which is a few blocks from the EE building.  

There is also street parking closer to the EE building on the major streets, 
but that takes some patience to find.  

Jeremy



From cncole at earthlink.net  Wed Nov  7 17:38:58 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 17:38:58 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <200711071702.50833.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGIEAECJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

UMN emphasis is a killer for outside interest and makes it a student group
separate from "the community"... or has historically for the last 20-30
years.

The bus line proximity isn't a big deal or just isn't useful for most folks
"after graduation".

Corporate relevance can be very good.  That is not "bias", it's a real world
emphasis.  Lack of it indicates a student emphasis.

Few, if any, installfests have been done at UMN.  Again. this is a student
emphasis and not clearly a community function or one emphasizing post
graduation concerns and connections.

Perhaps we need a real professional association to step in and host some
Linux-related stuff.  Let TCLUG be a local student group if that is its main
interest and direction.

As I said before, mid-week at UMN makes it both inaccessible and
uninteresting for most past graduation.  My opinion, but also happens to be
the practice of most of the 20 or so professional associations in town.


Chuck



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeremy [mailto:tclug at lizakowski.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 5:03 PM
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Cc: Chuck Cole
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting: TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
>
>
> > Is TCLUG just for the UMN student group now?
>
> The UofM is a central location that is on the Bus line, near
> light rail, and
> within walking distance of a densly populated area.
>
> We also have access to excellent facilities, free of charge, and
> without any
> corporate bias.  The UofM is also interested in actively
> assisting us with
> events like an installfest.
>
> The location does make it easy for students and faculty to attend, which
> comprise a large body of Linux users (largely Ubuntu).  I would
> guess it's
> the most dense area of Linux usage in the metro.  However, we do not
> specifically focus on UMN students.
>
> It is open to all, and you are welcome to attend.
>
> Jeremy
>
> On Wednesday 07 November 2007 4:43:00 pm Chuck Cole wrote:
> > Sounds like a good program, but the location is very bad, and it's
> > especially inaccessible at that time of day during the week.
> >
> > Is TCLUG just for the UMN student group now?
> >
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> > > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jeremy
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 1:45 PM
> > > To: tclug-announce at mn-linux.org
> > > Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting: TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The next TCLUG meeting is tonight!
> > >
> > > This month's meeting will feature Jeremy White, CEO and founder of
> > > Codeweavers, the makers of Wine.
> > >
> > > Freshly back from the annual Wine technical conference in
> Zurich, Jeremy
> > > will report on the state of Wine. That will include some
> history and an
> > > explanation of what Wine is and how it works. It will also include a
> > > roadmap for Wine, including the road to Wine 1.0, as well as flashy
> > > demos.
> > >
> > >
> > >  Date: Wed, Nov 7th
> > >  Time: 6:30 - 8:00 pm
> > >  University of Minnesota Minneapolis campus, EE/CSci Building ,
> > > Room: 3-115
> > >  200 Union St SE, Minneapolis 55455
> > >
> > >  http://www.tclug.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.23/1114 - Release Date:
> 11/6/2007 8:05 PM
>
>



From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Wed Nov  7 17:44:38 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 17:44:38 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCEEDALFAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCEEDALFAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711071731140.2122@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007, Chuck Cole wrote:

> Mike Miller wrote:
>
>> Why is it "especially inaccessible" at 6:30 pm on a Wednesday?
>
> Rush "hour" traffic all over the cities and around UMN.

But then every place is somewhat inaccessible at that time.  I don't see 
that spot as worse than most other places.


>> it would be better to have meetings where parking is free.
>
> .. and where working professionals are

But they are everywhere.  It's not as if there is one place, far from the 
university where all the working professionals can be found.


>> I'll bet you can recommend a place a block or two from your home that 
>> would be just perfect.  Seriously, where did you want to meet?
>
> Away from UMN or St Thomas U.  The TIES location is vastly superior on 
> all counts plus a few more.  There are other locations as are frequented 
> by the various professional associations in town.

Apparently, TIES is here:

http://tinyurl.com/yt4hfn  (Google Maps long URL)
1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108

And that is very near to the UMN St. Paul campus.

So why is it so great to meet out there near Roseville?  It would help 
your case a lot if you could explain yourself.  I have nothing against the 
idea of meeting there but I don't know why it is better than the EE 
building at the U because I've never been to TIES and you haven't told me 
what is better about it.  I don't care if "various professional 
associations in town" hold meetings there -- how does that help TCLUG?

Mike


From rudie at sihope.com  Wed Nov  7 18:01:46 2007
From: rudie at sihope.com (Kevin Hinze)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 18:01:46 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Drive copy utilities?
Message-ID: <20071107235545.M34647@sihope.com>

Howdy folks,

I am looking for a standalone disk copy utility for imaging one hard drive to
another. For this particular application, I am using PATA drives. The source
drive will be ~250 GB while the dest drive will be ~400 GB.

I want something OS independent, so something that is a standalone bootable CD
is highly preferred. Shareware and freeware is great but I am also looking at
commercial software, something akin to Ghost. As an aside, Ghost might be too
confusing for some end-users to easily follow instructions, but maybe not.

While a roll-it-yourself Linux solution comes to mind for many folks, I'm not
looking at this as a primary option, unless I've missed some great Linux
project out there to do just this.

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,

--
Kevin Hinze


From cncole at earthlink.net  Wed Nov  7 18:10:22 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 18:10:22 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711071731140.2122@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCOEDBLFAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Miller [mailto:mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 5:45 PM
>
> On Wed, 7 Nov 2007, Chuck Cole wrote:
>
> > Mike Miller wrote:
> >
> >> Why is it "especially inaccessible" at 6:30 pm on a Wednesday?
> >
> > Rush "hour" traffic all over the cities and around UMN.
>
> But then every place is somewhat inaccessible at that time.  I don't see
> that spot as worse than most other places.
>
>
> >> it would be better to have meetings where parking is free.
> >
> > .. and where working professionals are
>
> But they are everywhere.  It's not as if there is one place, far from the
> university where all the working professionals can be found.

The U has made itself undesirable as a meeting spot to 20+ national
professional associations.  This is history and current practice as well as
the logistics.  Not merely my opinion, though I've seen UMN cancel TCLUG
events and meeting spaces, and seen problems with other groups, so my
opinion is shaped by specific history also.


> And that is very near to the UMN St. Paul campus.

The U is utterly irrelevant, usually by its choice.

> So why is it so great to meet out there near Roseville?  It would help
> your case a lot if you could explain yourself.

History is not easily explained, nor do I feel duty-bound or capable of
explaining it adequately.  Best to just observe and draw your own
conclusions.


> building at the U because I've never been to TIES and you haven't told me
> what is better about it.  I don't care if "various professional
> associations in town" hold meetings there -- how does that help TCLUG?

I didn't say other professional associations meet at TIES specifically.
Don't know.  However, there are other Linux activities there.

What you prefer (as a newcomer to this 20-30 year history) is idealistic,
but not observant.  I am not presenting "just my own" personal preferences.
I do think TCLUG would benefit from being an actual defined association so
it could qualify for recognition here and there, but that seems to be much
too hard a concept.

How does it help TCLUG?  Technically, TCLUG doesn't actually exist by any
official criterion, so it's beyond help  :-)

It's likely that UMN has requirements of definition and recogniion for
groups wishing to meet and use facilities, and that may be reason for UMN to
limit support also (eg, for liability reasons).

No point in further debate of this now.  Maybe over beer and pizza someday
:-)


Chuck



From erikerik at gmail.com  Wed Nov  7 20:13:08 2007
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 20:13:08 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Drive copy utilities?
In-Reply-To: <20071107235545.M34647@sihope.com>
References: <20071107235545.M34647@sihope.com>
Message-ID: <fc40260f0711071813r75fba659re25ee1ff75272529@mail.gmail.com>

On Nov 7, 2007 6:01 PM, Kevin Hinze <rudie at sihope.com> wrote:
> Howdy folks,
>
> I am looking for a standalone disk copy utility for imaging one hard drive to
> another. For this particular application, I am using PATA drives. The source
> drive will be ~250 GB while the dest drive will be ~400 GB.

Is this just a one-off copy or will you be duplicating this image many
times? Your email makes it sound like it's just a one-off thing.  If
this is the case, I'd just use the dd command.  It should be present
on any live linux CD you happen to have around - I usually use knoppix
for this sort of thing, but it could certainly be done under a gentoo
or ubuntu livecd as well. Once you're running on the live cd and have
determined which linux device nodes correspond with each hard disk
(with PATA drives, it'll probably be /dev/hda and /dev/hdb or
something similar.  Look through dmesg to make sure), you can run a
command like this:

This is assuming that /dev/hda is the *source* drive and /dev/hdb is
the *destination.

$ dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hdb

This will do a bit-for-bit copy of one drive to the other.  I've used
this countless times, and it's never failed me.  The dd command won't
give any indication as to how far it's progressed in the copy, and
since it's copying each bit (including huge chunks of empty space),
it'll take a while.  I usually start this sort of thing when I'm
leaving work for the day - then I come back to a freshly-cloned drive
the next morning.  Make sure that you have no mounted filesystems on
either of these drives while cloning them, by the way.

-Erik


From aristophrenic at warpmail.net  Wed Nov  7 20:43:21 2007
From: aristophrenic at warpmail.net (Isaac Atilano)
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2007 20:43:21 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Drive copy utilities?
In-Reply-To: <fc40260f0711071813r75fba659re25ee1ff75272529@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071107235545.M34647@sihope.com>
	<fc40260f0711071813r75fba659re25ee1ff75272529@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1194489801.7096.1220159301@webmail.messagingengine.com>


On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 20:13:08 -0600, "Erik Anderson" <erikerik at gmail.com>
said:
> $ dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hdb
> 
> This will do a bit-for-bit copy of one drive to the other.

This will copy the partition table and file system as is, so you won't
be fully utilizing the space on the destination disk. Depending on what
you want to do with the destination disk, this may or may not matter. If
you want to fully utilize the destination disk, you'll have to use a
partition and file system resizing program.


From erikerik at gmail.com  Wed Nov  7 20:57:33 2007
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 20:57:33 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Drive copy utilities?
In-Reply-To: <1194489801.7096.1220159301@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <20071107235545.M34647@sihope.com>
	<fc40260f0711071813r75fba659re25ee1ff75272529@mail.gmail.com>
	<1194489801.7096.1220159301@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <fc40260f0711071857l664cf694j3a3761df6bb3645b@mail.gmail.com>

On Nov 7, 2007 8:43 PM, Isaac Atilano <aristophrenic at warpmail.net> wrote:
>
> This will copy the partition table and file system as is, so you won't
> be fully utilizing the space on the destination disk. Depending on what
> you want to do with the destination disk, this may or may not matter. If
> you want to fully utilize the destination disk, you'll have to use a
> partition and file system resizing program.

You're absolutely right, Issac.  I forgot to mention that, as a second
step, I usually go in with gparted and resize the partitions to fully
utilize the space on the new disk.

-Erik

-- 
Erik Anderson
http://andersonfam.org


From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com  Wed Nov  7 21:31:32 2007
From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (Kelly Black)
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2007 21:31:32 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Drive copy utilities?
In-Reply-To: <fc40260f0711071857l664cf694j3a3761df6bb3645b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071107235545.M34647@sihope.com>
	<fc40260f0711071813r75fba659re25ee1ff75272529@mail.gmail.com>
	<1194489801.7096.1220159301@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<fc40260f0711071857l664cf694j3a3761df6bb3645b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071108033132.GA9835@mail.hsd1.mn.comcast.net>

On Wed, Nov 07, 2007 at 08:57:33PM -0600, Erik Anderson wrote:
> You're absolutely right, Issac.  I forgot to mention that, as a second
> step, I usually go in with gparted and resize the partitions to fully
> utilize the space on the new disk.
> 
> -Erik

I have used this PING (Part Image is not Ghost):
http://ping.windowsdream.com/

It can backup from local disk to a share, cd, dvd, or from one disk to another.

It can resize after it finishes as well.  I would recommend skipping backup
of the bios, but you may find use for it.

Kelly
KB0GBJ


From dniesen at gmail.com  Wed Nov  7 21:39:02 2007
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 21:39:02 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Drive copy utilities?
In-Reply-To: <20071107235545.M34647@sihope.com>
References: <20071107235545.M34647@sihope.com>
Message-ID: <47f4d5e70711071939j77f50cdfrb7e6adeba7c608ae@mail.gmail.com>

Check out Acronis True Image.  Similar to Ghost but dead simple.  I've
used it to clone a single Linux image to 20 different machines.  It
will scale partitions to destination size in the first step as well.

www.acronis.com

On 11/7/07, Kevin Hinze <rudie at sihope.com> wrote:
> Howdy folks,
>
> I am looking for a standalone disk copy utility for imaging one hard drive
> to
> another. For this particular application, I am using PATA drives. The source
> drive will be ~250 GB while the dest drive will be ~400 GB.
>
> I want something OS independent, so something that is a standalone bootable
> CD
> is highly preferred. Shareware and freeware is great but I am also looking
> at
> commercial software, something akin to Ghost. As an aside, Ghost might be
> too
> confusing for some end-users to easily follow instructions, but maybe not.
>
> While a roll-it-yourself Linux solution comes to mind for many folks, I'm
> not
> looking at this as a primary option, unless I've missed some great Linux
> project out there to do just this.
>
> Anyone have any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Kevin Hinze
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


-- 
Donovan Niesen


From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Wed Nov  7 22:19:02 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 22:19:02 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCOEDBLFAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCOEDBLFAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711072215590.21935@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007, Chuck Cole wrote:

> No point in further debate of this now.  Maybe over beer and pizza 
> someday :-)


OK, Chuck, but I was hoping you'd tell us more about the goodness of TIES. 
Do they have good meeting space?  Is it free to us?  Good parking?  Easy 
to get to?  How do we sign up?

You don't like the U because they have canceled meeting reservations.  I 
get it, and that is a worry.  It is also bad for parking when compared to 
many other spaces.

Mike


From cncole at earthlink.net  Wed Nov  7 23:14:47 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 23:14:47 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711072215590.21935@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCGEDGLFAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Miller [mailto:mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 10:19 PM
>
> On Wed, 7 Nov 2007, Chuck Cole wrote:
>
> > No point in further debate of this now.  Maybe over beer and pizza
> > someday :-)
>
>
> OK, Chuck, but I was hoping you'd tell us more about the goodness
> of TIES.
> Do they have good meeting space?  Is it free to us?  Good parking?  Easy
> to get to?  How do we sign up?

Announcements get posted here often, and all info is on Brian's web site at
http://www.penguinsunbound.org/

I'm not really involved, except as an interested participant.  Don't know
how much official support Brian has, but Linux is far more vital to TIES
mission than to the mission of UMN, so the priority should be very clear and
very high to give simple support.

Very easy to get to: corner of Snelling and Larpenteur.  Free and lotsa free
parking.  Many great places for food and beer nearby.  Rosedale and Har Mar
mall are close by, and Snuffy's and Keys are close by on Larpenteur.

Really great "big pipe" internet wired and WiFi connections, since that's
what TIES is all about.  TIES provides internet and other online support for
MN schools and teachers.   Large and multiple meeting spaces,
well-equipped - probably since they do some training for teachers also.


> You don't like the U because they have canceled meeting reservations.  I
> get it, and that is a worry.  It is also bad for parking when compared to
> many other spaces.

If the U doesn't (or does) "own" something, you can't count on any support
or continuity or input.  I tried for 5 or more years as VP of a real
professional group and rep of a major corporation to build relationships
with UMIT (even offering big ticket funding) and it was a hopeless effort.
They are a political organization with their own agenda, and other
documented, certified, funded, and academic-like interests simply cannot
have a place on their ranking list.  TCLUG is not documented, certified,
funded, or academic.  The UM situation has improved a little in the last 5
or so years, but not enough to matter for this.   More than that, I think
(ie, I learned... ie, BTDT) it's just the wrong venue, AND I don't like
going there because of the congestion, etc.

Would be very different in some other states' universities, but that is
irrelevant here.  For example, some major universities require that graduate
faculty develop and sustain funded collaborations with industry as one of 4
parts of retaining tenure (4: teach, publish, lead research, and do).
Publish usually means co-publish frequently with colleagues in industry.
Not really true here, but changing.


Chuck




From patrickm at citilink.com  Wed Nov  7 23:14:14 2007
From: patrickm at citilink.com (patrickm at citilink.com)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 23:14:14 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Drive copy utilities?
In-Reply-To: <fc40260f0711071813r75fba659re25ee1ff75272529@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071107235545.M34647@sihope.com>
	<fc40260f0711071813r75fba659re25ee1ff75272529@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1136.12.219.1.16.1194498854.squirrel@zok.homelinux.com>

...
> The dd command won't
> give any indication as to how far it's progressed in the copy,
...
> -Erik

  # kill -USR1 <pid of dd>

will cause dd to spit out it's current status.

I usually go to a separate console and enter:

  # while true; do killall -USR1 dd; sleep 60; done

to watch the progress of the copy.


Patrick McCabe



From cschumann at twp-llc.com  Thu Nov  8 07:18:58 2007
From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann)
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 07:18:58 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com>

> Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 23:14:47 -0600
> From: "Chuck Cole" <cncole at earthlink.net>

> Really great "big pipe" internet wired and WiFi connections, since that's
> what TIES is all about.  TIES provides internet and other online support for
> MN schools and teachers.   Large and multiple meeting spaces,
> well-equipped - probably since they do some training for teachers also.

I hope it's not just me, but I've never seen TCLUG as a student group. 
And by that reasoning, TIES mission would not align with this group.

Unless, by using Linux and advocating it, we all become teachers of a sort.

Chris


From jima at beer.tclug.org  Thu Nov  8 07:42:41 2007
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 07:42:41 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com>
References: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0711080726110.4486@beer.tclug.org>

On Thu, 8 Nov 2007, Chris Schumann wrote:
>> Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 23:14:47 -0600
>> From: "Chuck Cole" <cncole at earthlink.net>
>
>> Really great "big pipe" internet wired and WiFi connections, since that's
>> what TIES is all about.  TIES provides internet and other online support for
>> MN schools and teachers.   Large and multiple meeting spaces,
>> well-equipped - probably since they do some training for teachers also.
>
> I hope it's not just me, but I've never seen TCLUG as a student group.
> And by that reasoning, TIES mission would not align with this group.

  Last I checked, TCLUG is not a student group.  We're also not a 
"professional organization."  Strictly speaking, we're not defined as 
anything but a group of people who get together to talk about Linux.  I 
prefer that to a model where we cater to one section of the community, but 
ignore the rest.  We have professionals (however you want to define 
that...people who use Linux in their work?), students (and other assorted 
academics), and tinkerers.  (And probably some other demographics that 
aren't coming to mind.)  I'm happy that all these people with different 
skills and needs can work together, and wouldn't trade it for corporate 
backing, sponsorship, or whatever.  It's a community, plain and simple.

  Of course, it's probably worth disclaiming that we do have corporate 
sponsorship on a minor scale with Real Time Enterprises hosting the list, 
web site, et al.  Alas, they don't require us to ostracize anyone in 
exchange, and they've been (IMO) nothing but benevolent, so no one tends 
to complain.

  Anyway.  Back to preparing for the Fedora 8 release.

      Jima


From wilson at visi.com  Thu Nov  8 07:53:42 2007
From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 07:53:42 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com>
References: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com>
Message-ID: <188AFA54-486E-47DB-9532-3E6D0CFECBC1@visi.com>

On Nov 8, 2007, at 7:18 AM, Chris Schumann wrote:

> I hope it's not just me, but I've never seen TCLUG as a student group.
> And by that reasoning, TIES mission would not align with this group.
>
> Unless, by using Linux and advocating it, we all become teachers of  
> a sort.


I'm quite familiar with TIES since my school district is a TIES member  
and I work with them often in my role as a Technology Director. In  
fact, I'll be there this afternoon for a meeting. Their space is very  
conducive to a large group meeting like TCLUG: plentiful parking, easy  
location, fat pipe, etc. Just because TIES is in the education  
business doesn't imply that they only work with student groups.  
They're a large ISP and technical services organization so they've got  
a lot of geeks around there. I suspect the willingness to host TCLUG  
events is driven by that group.

-Tim

-- 
Tim Wilson, The Savvy Technologist
Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA
Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy
mailto: wilson at visi.com  aim: tis270  blog and podcast: http://technosavvy.org




From tclug at lizakowski.com  Thu Nov  8 08:46:41 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 09:46:41 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <188AFA54-486E-47DB-9532-3E6D0CFECBC1@visi.com>
References: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com>
	<188AFA54-486E-47DB-9532-3E6D0CFECBC1@visi.com>
Message-ID: <200711080846.41559.tclug@lizakowski.com>

> location, fat pipe, etc. Just because TIES is in the education

Don't they get their Internet2 downstream from the University?  

Jeremy


From trnja001 at umn.edu  Thu Nov  8 09:13:06 2007
From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin)
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 09:13:06 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com>
References: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com>
Message-ID: <47332782.5060909@umn.edu>

Chris Schumann wrote:
>> Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 23:14:47 -0600
>> From: "Chuck Cole" <cncole at earthlink.net>
>>     
>
>   
>> Really great "big pipe" internet wired and WiFi connections, since that's
>> what TIES is all about.  TIES provides internet and other online support for
>> MN schools and teachers.   Large and multiple meeting spaces,
>> well-equipped - probably since they do some training for teachers also.
>>     
>
> I hope it's not just me, but I've never seen TCLUG as a student group. 
>   
Neither have I, mainly because Wednesday nights are nights when most 
students have night class so I wouldn't expect many to be present during 
the meetings. In my 5 semesters at the U so far, I've never had a free 
Wednesday night.

Also related to this, if classes are still held at the time of the 
meetings, isn't parking a bit harder to find if you don't want to use 
the ramp? I imagine it would be better if the meetings are held during 
the weekend but I'm sure there is a very good reason for the current 
time slot and location. If it's convenient for the most people than any 
other day, then I certainly wont complain.



From tclug at lizakowski.com  Thu Nov  8 09:35:18 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 10:35:18 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com>
References: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com>
Message-ID: <200711080935.18360.tclug@lizakowski.com>


Most of the arguments sound like fluff covering up the real argument.  

The core complaint seems to be that UofM didn't play ball in the past, with 
whatever was trying to be accomplished. 

It then seems presumed that any future dealings with the U will result in the 
same results.  

The rest of the complaints seem to be attempts to persuade others that the U 
is bad.  Then add a promotional call for people to bail and hang out 
elsewhere.

In some senses, it feels like we are being asked to extend a boycott of some 
form, due to former issues from a different organization.  It's good to be 
aware of issues, and learn from them.  But in my experience, the U has been 
very kind and helpful so far.  

Perhaps if TCLUG sought bigtime corporate sponsorship we would run into these 
issues, but I don't think open source is a good match for such corporate 
influence.  

Jeremy


On Thursday 08 November 2007 7:18:58 am Chris Schumann wrote:
> > Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 23:14:47 -0600
> > From: "Chuck Cole" <cncole at earthlink.net>
> >
> > Really great "big pipe" internet wired and WiFi connections, since that's
> > what TIES is all about.  TIES provides internet and other online support
> > for MN schools and teachers.   Large and multiple meeting spaces,
> > well-equipped - probably since they do some training for teachers also.
>
> I hope it's not just me, but I've never seen TCLUG as a student group.
> And by that reasoning, TIES mission would not align with this group.
>
> Unless, by using Linux and advocating it, we all become teachers of a sort.
>
> Chris
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




From dalan at visi.com  Thu Nov  8 10:08:15 2007
From: dalan at visi.com (Don Sparish)
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 10:08:15 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <47332782.5060909@umn.edu>
References: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com> <47332782.5060909@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <web-7406340@mailback2.g2host.com>

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From bijoy.anose at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 10:33:49 2007
From: bijoy.anose at gmail.com (Bijoy Anose)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 10:33:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting: TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <47332782.5060909@umn.edu>
References: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com> <47332782.5060909@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <50ba6ee40711080833p70ccbbeaq997f51b0ffed32ae@mail.gmail.com>

Kudos to Mike Miller for keeping this conversation civil, and on track!

Now that he has patiently extracted the rationale for Chuck's initial
comments, I find that I agree with his
conclusion.  :)

I admit, I didn't go to last night's meeting because of the location,
especially in light of the additional strain
on traffic during rush hour in the heart of the metro area because of
the bridge collapse.  A quick glance at
any online live traffic map will prove to you that the area around the
UofM campus is one of the worst spots
for congestion during peak driving times, anywhere in the Twin Cities,
every day.


From srcfoo at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 10:55:45 2007
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 10:55:45 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting: TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <web-7406340@mailback2.g2host.com>
References: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com> <47332782.5060909@umn.edu>
	<web-7406340@mailback2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30711080855s2dd8c9e7h354875441fac5542@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/8/07, Don Sparish <dalan at visi.com> wrote:
> As long as the meeting is on a week night I will never be able to attend I
> would vote for a weekend
> meeting time and place to be found.
>
> I don't recall there ever being a reason given for wednesday night meetings,
> but I will look through my emails
> when I get home.

I have the same argument, but in reverse. I'm almost never available
on weekends so I would never be able to attend a weekend meeting. I
would like to attend a TIES meeting because they sound interesting,
but since I'm gone 3/4 weekends it just never works out.

The fact is that it is not possible to satisfy everyone's schedule,
choice of location, etc.

Earlier this year in the Spring when a few of us got together to
discuss getting a regular TCLUG meeting going again, we openly invited
people to discuss these topics and no one responded.  So we met
regularly in person for efficiency reasons and made decisions as a
group based on what we thought would be the best way to start.

Constructive criticism is always welcome, but so far the only good
argument I've heard is the one concerning parking. The choice of day
is too subjective to really be counted either way.

It seems to be working well enough to have both meetings so I don't
understand why we need to either have one solution or the other. As
Jima pointed out, we're just a group of people who want to discuss
Linux. Some additional coordination between the two groups would be
nice, but it seems silly that both can't coexist. It's not as if
there's a gold rush on TCLUG and the first one to stake a claim is
gonna get all the LUGgets (Yep, that's right I just coined the term
LUGgets to refer to any member of a LUG).

My $0.02.

Eric


From josh at tcbug.org  Thu Nov  8 10:59:37 2007
From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 10:59:37 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <200711080935.18360.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com>
	<200711080935.18360.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <200711081059.43368.josh@tcbug.org>

On Thursday 08 November 2007 09:35:18 am Jeremy wrote:
> Most of the arguments sound like fluff covering up the real argument.
>
> The core complaint seems to be that UofM didn't play ball in the past, with
> whatever was trying to be accomplished.
>
> It then seems presumed that any future dealings with the U will result in
> the same results.
>
> The rest of the complaints seem to be attempts to persuade others that the
> U is bad.  Then add a promotional call for people to bail and hang out
> elsewhere.
>
> In some senses, it feels like we are being asked to extend a boycott of
> some form, due to former issues from a different organization.  It's good
> to be aware of issues, and learn from them.  But in my experience, the U
> has been very kind and helpful so far.
>
> Perhaps if TCLUG sought bigtime corporate sponsorship we would run into
> these issues, but I don't think open source is a good match for such
> corporate influence.
>
> Jeremy

For what it's worth, TCBUG has never had a problem with meetings at the U of 
M.  People do seem to like the central location as being equally unfair to 
everyone, and we've never had a problem with meeting cancellations, room 
availability, political wranglings or the like....although we've always 
facilitated our meetings through the ACM, so maybe that matters.

TCBUG's democraphics generally leans towards the 'old bitter UNIX admin' scale 
of things, we do have a couple of students as members, but the vast majority 
of our membership is comprised of UNIX professionals.

-- 
Thanks,

Josh Paetzel

PGP: 8A48 EF36 5E9F 4EDA 5A8C 11B4 26F9 01F1 27AF AECB
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From progressivepenguin at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 10:58:04 2007
From: progressivepenguin at gmail.com (Steve T)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 10:58:04 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting: TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <50ba6ee40711080833p70ccbbeaq997f51b0ffed32ae@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com> <47332782.5060909@umn.edu>
	<50ba6ee40711080833p70ccbbeaq997f51b0ffed32ae@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7156d5f20711080858t25b8c2bbwac24090cc77a1368@mail.gmail.com>

So would it be acceptable to alternate between the two sites?



-- 
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act!"
-- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair)
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From tclug at lizakowski.com  Thu Nov  8 10:59:28 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 11:59:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting: TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <50ba6ee40711080833p70ccbbeaq997f51b0ffed32ae@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<47332782.5060909@umn.edu>
	<50ba6ee40711080833p70ccbbeaq997f51b0ffed32ae@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200711081059.29188.tclug@lizakowski.com>

> ----------------------------------------------
> (1)  Location, location, location -- it's not in the heart of the
> worst traffic congestion area during that time slot
> (2)  Free Parking
>
> Arguments for meeting @ UofM, rather than TIES
> ----------------------------------------------
> (1)  I am a UofM student, or live in the City, so it is more convenient for
> me

TIES is in close proximity to the U.  Traffic congestion is similar for most 
travellers, so location is not it's advantage. 

Parking is an advantage.  I see that as the only advantage.

> The consensus appears to be that TCLUG is not specifically a student
> group (presumably also not a group
> geared toward City dwellers), so it seems that the former arguments
> hold more water than the latter.  This is
> assuming, of course, that the facts that have been presented on both
> sides have been accurate and complete.
>
> I don't think anybody is threatening a boycott of any sort, and I
> don't think it's fair to call peoples' arguments
> "fluff" because you happen to disagree with them.  Everyone is
> entitled to their opinion.

Here are some of the things I call fluff:  The argument was made that the U is 
irrelevant, TCLUG is beyond help, and TIES is superior in essentially all 
ways.  Those are sweeping generalities.  I could dismantle those arguments, 
but I decliined in favor of something more brief and getting to the point.  

What I don't think is fluff: the argument that the U was not cooperative with 
previous organizations.  I don't agree with the conclusions, but I think 
that's the reason we are discussing this subject.

If you search the list, we've discussed some of this before.  I don't have 
time to do that at the moment, as I'm leaving the office for a meeting, but I 
maintain that my objections are rational.  

> Here's hoping we come up with a rational outcome that is in the best
> interest of TCLUG as a whole!
>
> Bijoy
>
> On Nov 8, 2007 9:13 AM, Elvedin Trnjanin <trnja001 at umn.edu> wrote:
> > Chris Schumann wrote:
> > >> Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 23:14:47 -0600
> > >> From: "Chuck Cole" <cncole at earthlink.net>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Really great "big pipe" internet wired and WiFi connections, since
> > >> that's what TIES is all about.  TIES provides internet and other
> > >> online support for MN schools and teachers.   Large and multiple
> > >> meeting spaces, well-equipped - probably since they do some training
> > >> for teachers also.
> > >
> > > I hope it's not just me, but I've never seen TCLUG as a student group.
> >
> > Neither have I, mainly because Wednesday nights are nights when most
> > students have night class so I wouldn't expect many to be present during
> > the meetings. In my 5 semesters at the U so far, I've never had a free
> > Wednesday night.
> >
> > Also related to this, if classes are still held at the time of the
> > meetings, isn't parking a bit harder to find if you don't want to use
> > the ramp? I imagine it would be better if the meetings are held during
> > the weekend but I'm sure there is a very good reason for the current
> > time slot and location. If it's convenient for the most people than any
> > other day, then I certainly wont complain.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




From srcfoo at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 11:12:54 2007
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 11:12:54 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting: TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <7156d5f20711080858t25b8c2bbwac24090cc77a1368@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com> <47332782.5060909@umn.edu>
	<50ba6ee40711080833p70ccbbeaq997f51b0ffed32ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<7156d5f20711080858t25b8c2bbwac24090cc77a1368@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30711080912p5c346df0v3b7c8a167ba0ac01@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/8/07, Steve T <progressivepenguin at gmail.com> wrote:
> So would it be acceptable to alternate between the two sites?

That is the current situation. First monday of the month at the U and
last Saturday of the month at TIES (I think it's that last Saturday of
the month, correct me if I'm wrong).


From cncole at earthlink.net  Thu Nov  8 11:25:22 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 11:25:22 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <200711080935.18360.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGMEAICJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jeremy
>
>
>
> Perhaps if TCLUG sought bigtime corporate sponsorship we would
> run into these
> issues, but I don't think open source is a good match for such corporate
> influence.

FYI, as a non-organization, TCLUG can't qualify if it asked or was offered.
Sponsors need to know the non-profit ID or equiv for their tax reporting,
etc, else they get in big trouble for "where did that go?" audit questions.

IBM, HP, Dell etc think they are good matches for Linux support and usage
and have active support programs.  HP and IBM were officially supporting
Beowolf clusters as of several years ago.

Real Time has dropped any visible connection with TCLUG activities as of
several years ago, but probably still hosts this list.  I think it was a
liability concern. Since TCLUG can't take responsibility or insure anything,
the organizing individuals and any seeming sponsors carry the liability if
anything happens.

TCLUG could be chartered to be or do what Jima mentioned, but isn't or
hasn't.  The details can be a nuisance, but it's like growing up and having
to get a driver's license, insurance, and pay taxes or take the consequences
when they come.


Chuck



From kc8son at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  8 11:26:14 2007
From: kc8son at yahoo.com (BTS Technologies)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 09:26:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Introduction and response to: Re: TCLUG Meeting:
	TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
Message-ID: <291737.43676.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello,

I joined the list a few weeks ago and have been lurking until I could contribute something useful.

So, for my intro: I have recently re-located back to the Twin City area after 25 years.  I primarily work in the Windows world (No flames please) and "dabble" in linux for lack of a better word.  I'm primarily a SQL Server DBA and additionally do some .Net development with Oracle and MySQL and PHP and PERL thrown in for good measure.  I have been in the IT industry for 28 years and have worked on numerous kinds of hardware, OSs and software.  

The Central Ohio LUG had a good solution the the problem of meeting times and locations.  They had two meeting locations in different parts of town and would alternate between those locations every other month.  They also alternated the day they met.  One month would be a Wednesday night and the following month was a Saturday morning.

Thanks,

Joe Merten

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
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From progressivepenguin at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 11:37:52 2007
From: progressivepenguin at gmail.com (Steve T)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 11:37:52 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting: TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30711080912p5c346df0v3b7c8a167ba0ac01@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com> <47332782.5060909@umn.edu>
	<50ba6ee40711080833p70ccbbeaq997f51b0ffed32ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<7156d5f20711080858t25b8c2bbwac24090cc77a1368@mail.gmail.com>
	<579c6fd30711080912p5c346df0v3b7c8a167ba0ac01@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7156d5f20711080937k5962ad30ta3e1f3c5a00a6b3a@mail.gmail.com>

On Nov 8, 2007 11:12 AM, Eric Peterson <srcfoo at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 11/8/07, Steve T <progressivepenguin at gmail.com> wrote:
> > So would it be acceptable to alternate between the two sites?
>
> That is the current situation. First monday of the month at the U and
> last Saturday of the month at TIES (I think it's that last Saturday of
> the month, correct me if I'm wrong).
>

Ok, wasn't sure as I have just recently moved to the metro and am just now
looking at attending.
Thank you for the info.





-- 
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act!"
-- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair)
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From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com  Thu Nov  8 12:18:06 2007
From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (Kelly Black)
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 12:18:06 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Jobs for folks with some Linux background.
Message-ID: <20071108181806.GA14924@mail.hsd1.mn.comcast.net>

I don't work here:

http://www.enclarity.com/careers2.php

But my wife does.  A couple of the jobs are a good fit for
someone with some Linux, Perl and SQL skills.


Kelly
KB0GBJ



From obelin23 at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 13:08:13 2007
From: obelin23 at gmail.com (Charlie O)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 13:08:13 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG - U of M Location
Message-ID: <72278d10711081108x462923a3r878ebf1830b3cd11@mail.gmail.com>

For what it's worth, I don't attend TCLUG meetings because of
location, mostly because of parking hassles.

Charlie O


From bdunnette at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 13:13:12 2007
From: bdunnette at gmail.com (Brian Dunnette)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 13:13:12 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Introduction and response to: Re: TCLUG Meeting:
	TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <291737.43676.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <291737.43676.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e9cd5840711081113y51cf8480qe57766b36bdd15ee@mail.gmail.com>

I'll second the suggestion of alternating places & times -- for instance,
weekdays @ the U generally don't work for me, but I'm sure they're great for
some of us.  Maybe we could do the next meeting on a different day at TIES,
then another Wednesday at the University?  That way people could feel free
to "boycott" the U of M without having to miss out on *all* of the fun...

-Brian D.

On 11/8/07, BTS Technologies <kc8son at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>  Hello,
>
> I joined the list a few weeks ago and have been lurking until I could
> contribute something useful.
>
> So, for my intro: I have recently re-located back to the Twin City area
> after 25 years.  I primarily work in the Windows world (No flames please)
> and "dabble" in linux for lack of a better word.  I'm primarily a SQL Server
> DBA and additionally do some .Net development with Oracle and MySQL and PHP
> and PERL thrown in for good measure.  I have been in the IT industry for 28
> years and have worked on numerous kinds of hardware, OSs and software.
>
> The Central Ohio LUG had a good solution the the problem of meeting times
> and locations.  They had two meeting locations in different parts of town
> and would alternate between those locations every other month.  They also
> alternated the day they met.  One month would be a Wednesday night and the
> following month was a Saturday morning.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joe Merten
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From florin at iucha.net  Thu Nov  8 13:11:14 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 13:11:14 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting: TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30711080912p5c346df0v3b7c8a167ba0ac01@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com> <47332782.5060909@umn.edu>
	<50ba6ee40711080833p70ccbbeaq997f51b0ffed32ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<7156d5f20711080858t25b8c2bbwac24090cc77a1368@mail.gmail.com>
	<579c6fd30711080912p5c346df0v3b7c8a167ba0ac01@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071108191114.GQ25561@iucha.net>

On Thu, Nov 08, 2007 at 11:12:54AM -0600, Eric Peterson wrote:
> On 11/8/07, Steve T <progressivepenguin at gmail.com> wrote:
> > So would it be acceptable to alternate between the two sites?
> 
> That is the current situation. First monday of the month at the U and
> last Saturday of the month at TIES (I think it's that last Saturday of
> the month, correct me if I'm wrong).

Is somebody sending out meeting notices for the Saturday meetings?  I
remember seeing only one, or maybe two.

florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From bdunnette at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 13:19:15 2007
From: bdunnette at gmail.com (Brian Dunnette)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 13:19:15 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG - U of M Location
In-Reply-To: <72278d10711081108x462923a3r878ebf1830b3cd11@mail.gmail.com>
References: <72278d10711081108x462923a3r878ebf1830b3cd11@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e9cd5840711081119m282c596fufdfbf2a0899307dc@mail.gmail.com>

Just a thought: would it be worthwhile to set up some sort of poll to see
when & where people would like to meet (something more in-depth than the
"I (love/hate) the current meeting location & time" flamewar that seems to
have developed)?

-Brian D.

On 11/8/07, Charlie O <obelin23 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> For what it's worth, I don't attend TCLUG meetings because of
> location, mostly because of parking hassles.
>
> Charlie O
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From progressivepenguin at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 13:23:29 2007
From: progressivepenguin at gmail.com (Steve T)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 13:23:29 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Introduction and response to: Re: TCLUG Meeting:
	TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <e9cd5840711081113y51cf8480qe57766b36bdd15ee@mail.gmail.com>
References: <291737.43676.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<e9cd5840711081113y51cf8480qe57766b36bdd15ee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7156d5f20711081123l5cb2bd9aw97d377864392ce5f@mail.gmail.com>

I'll third it, although it seems that they have been alternating between the
University and TIES.  I just didn't know where or what TIES was until now.

On Nov 8, 2007 1:13 PM, Brian Dunnette <bdunnette at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'll second the suggestion of alternating places & times -- for instance,
> weekdays @ the U generally don't work for me, but I'm sure they're great for
> some of us.  Maybe we could do the next meeting on a different day at TIES,
> then another Wednesday at the University?  That way people could feel free
> to "boycott" the U of M without having to miss out on *all* of the fun...
>
> -Brian D.
>
> On 11/8/07, BTS Technologies <kc8son at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >  Hello,
> >
> > I joined the list a few weeks ago and have been lurking until I could
> > contribute something useful.
> >
> > So, for my intro: I have recently re-located back to the Twin City area
> > after 25 years.  I primarily work in the Windows world (No flames please)
> > and "dabble" in linux for lack of a better word.  I'm primarily a SQL Server
> > DBA and additionally do some .Net development with Oracle and MySQL and PHP
> > and PERL thrown in for good measure.  I have been in the IT industry for 28
> > years and have worked on numerous kinds of hardware, OSs and software.
> >
> > The Central Ohio LUG had a good solution the the problem of meeting
> > times and locations.  They had two meeting locations in different parts of
> > town and would alternate between those locations every other month.  They
> > also alternated the day they met.  One month would be a Wednesday night and
> > the following month was a Saturday morning.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Joe Merten
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>


-- 
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act!"
-- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair)
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From crumley at fields.space.umn.edu  Thu Nov  8 13:42:28 2007
From: crumley at fields.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 13:42:28 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGMEAICJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <200711080935.18360.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGMEAICJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20071108134228.A18818@belka.space.umn.edu>

On Thu, Nov 08, 2007 at 11:25:22AM -0600, Chuck Cole wrote:
> Real Time has dropped any visible connection with TCLUG activities as of
> several years ago, but probably still hosts this list.  I think it was a
> liability concern. Since TCLUG can't take responsibility or insure anything,
> the organizing individuals and any seeming sponsors carry the liability if
> anything happens.

Do you have any real info on this, or is this just speculation?
 
> TCLUG could be chartered to be or do what Jima mentioned, but isn't or
> hasn't.  The details can be a nuisance, but it's like growing up and having
> to get a driver's license, insurance, and pay taxes or take the consequences
> when they come.

I think that it is time to put up or shut up.

TCLUG runs more or less as an anarchy. People who have the time
and interest step up and get things done.  Meetings and
installfests are organized. The web page is updated.

In the past some people looked into formalizing TCLUG, and even
though someone had cheap access accountants and/or lawyers (I
forget which - check the archives for details), no one wanted to
spend the time to get it done. If you think that it would be
helpful to incorporate TCLUG as a non-profit, get together some
like-minded people and do it.

If you don't like meetings at the U, get involved with the group
that is organizing the Saturday TIES meetings.  Or if you like
meetings at the U, get involved with helping out with those.

I think that it would be great if you could keep two sets of
meetings going.  I am unlikely to go to any of the meetings, 
but I enjoy reading about them.

I have been on this list for about 10 years (and I used to make
it to meetings ocassionally), and I have learned a lot and had
some fun.  I would just like to thank everyone who has put work
into keeping TCLUG going.

So to Clay and Bob, Chewie and Carl, Jeremy and Eric, and all of
the people I am leaving off: Thank you! 

Please, let's improve the complaining to helping ratio around
here.


-- 
Jim Crumley                  |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG)
Ruthless Debian Zealot       |http://www.mn-linux.org/ 
Never laugh at live dragons  |


From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Thu Nov  8 13:56:21 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 13:56:21 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG - U of M Location
In-Reply-To: <e9cd5840711081119m282c596fufdfbf2a0899307dc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <72278d10711081108x462923a3r878ebf1830b3cd11@mail.gmail.com>
	<e9cd5840711081119m282c596fufdfbf2a0899307dc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711081352280.16373@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Thu, 8 Nov 2007, Brian Dunnette wrote:

> Just a thought: would it be worthwhile to set up some sort of poll to 
> see when & where people would like to meet (something more in-depth than 
> the "I (love/hate) the current meeting location & time" flamewar that 
> seems to have developed)?


I like that idea, but I would want the questions to be the right ones. 
There seem to be several issues here -- alternating locations, using TIES, 
weekend/weekday, is the U any good?, etc.

My view is this:  Someone has suggested that TIES is a good meeting place, 
someone else has seconded that, so I think we should look into it.  The 
guy who recommended TIES clearly has an axe to grind with the U, but I 
think we should ignore that and just try to decide if we like TIES as a 
meeting place.

I would suggest that we have a meeting at TIES sometime (unless there is a 
good reason not to do so), then have a poll about meeting places once 
we've seen TIES.

Mike


From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Thu Nov  8 14:21:10 2007
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke)
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 14:21:10 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Stump the Unix Geek - Topic @PenguinsUnbound Linux
 Meeting Nov. 17, 2007
Message-ID: <47336FB6.7030501@Goecke-Dolan.com>

This months PenguinsUnbound.net meeting will be 
Saturday November 17th at TIES, (a little early to avoid Thanks Giving weekend.)
1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108
from 10:00 to 12:00.
(See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more info.)

This month I will be answers your Unix/Linux/Ubuntu questions.  Or at least I will, and anyone willing to help, will try to answer your question.  

So bring your questions, comments, or hints that you find useful and I will bring some answers!

Thanks, hope to see you there.

==>brian.







From blawrence at qwest.net  Thu Nov  8 15:54:23 2007
From: blawrence at qwest.net (Brian Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 15:54:23 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Does anyone have notes from last night's TCLUG meeting?
Message-ID: <00bd01c82251$edc44f20$f900000a@hmlabl2k001>

I was in a car accident on University Ave and Oak St on my way to the
meeting last night. As a result I wasn't able to attend the meeting and I
would very much like to know what Jeremy White of CodeWeavers had to say
about Wine. Would it be possible to post notes to this list or to the
meetings page on the TCLUG site?

Thanks,
Brian Lawrence



From holtzermann17 at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 16:27:50 2007
From: holtzermann17 at gmail.com (Joe Corneli)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 16:27:50 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG - U of M Location
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711081352280.16373@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <72278d10711081108x462923a3r878ebf1830b3cd11@mail.gmail.com>
	<e9cd5840711081119m282c596fufdfbf2a0899307dc@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0711081352280.16373@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <a9670630711081427q6d8bb12bl10a9d87492d5505@mail.gmail.com>

My two cents have to do more with activities than with location.

I think it would be nice to alternate meetings that include
presentations with meetings that are oriented towards software
installation/configuring/hacking.

Cf. the Silicon Valley LUG site, http://www.svlug.org/

On 11/8/07, Mike Miller <mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu> wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Nov 2007, Brian Dunnette wrote:
>
> > Just a thought: would it be worthwhile to set up some sort of poll to
> > see when & where people would like to meet (something more in-depth than
> > the "I (love/hate) the current meeting location & time" flamewar that
> > seems to have developed)?
>
>
> I like that idea, but I would want the questions to be the right ones.
> There seem to be several issues here -- alternating locations, using TIES,
> weekend/weekday, is the U any good?, etc.
>
> My view is this:  Someone has suggested that TIES is a good meeting place,
> someone else has seconded that, so I think we should look into it.  The
> guy who recommended TIES clearly has an axe to grind with the U, but I
> think we should ignore that and just try to decide if we like TIES as a
> meeting place.
>
> I would suggest that we have a meeting at TIES sometime (unless there is a
> good reason not to do so), then have a poll about meeting places once
> we've seen TIES.
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From cncole at earthlink.net  Thu Nov  8 17:48:46 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 17:48:46 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <20071108134228.A18818@belka.space.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGOEALCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jim Crumley
>
> On Thu, Nov 08, 2007 at 11:25:22AM -0600, Chuck Cole wrote:
> > Real Time has dropped any visible connection with TCLUG activities as of
> > several years ago, but probably still hosts this list.  I think it was a
> > liability concern. Since TCLUG can't take responsibility or
> insure anything,
> > the organizing individuals and any seeming sponsors carry the
> liability if
> > anything happens.
>
> Do you have any real info on this, or is this just speculation?

Comments made to me privately by one of the Tanners, but without elaboration
when I offered to host an event.  Real enough for me.

Get your own data.  Lack of mention, support, or appearance at events is
apparent.


> > TCLUG could be chartered to be or do what Jima mentioned, but isn't or
> > hasn't.  The details can be a nuisance, but it's like growing
> up and having
> > to get a driver's license, insurance, and pay taxes or take the
> consequences
> > when they come.
>
> I think that it is time to put up or shut up.
>
> TCLUG runs more or less as an anarchy. People who have the time
> and interest step up and get things done.  Meetings and
> installfests are organized. The web page is updated.
>
> In the past some people looked into formalizing TCLUG, and even
> though someone had cheap access accountants and/or lawyers (I
> forget which - check the archives for details), no one wanted to
> spend the time to get it done. If you think that it would be
> helpful to incorporate TCLUG as a non-profit, get together some
> like-minded people and do it.

I saw that circus.  I had offered to help originally, but there was no
cohesiveness to proceed and there was/is active opposition.  I've formed
several non-profits, including getting federal 501c3 classifications.


> I have been on this list for about 10 years (and I used to make
> it to meetings ocassionally), and I have learned a lot and had
> some fun.  I would just like to thank everyone who has put work
> into keeping TCLUG going.

Ditto.


> So to Clay and Bob, Chewie and Carl, Jeremy and Eric, and all of
> the people I am leaving off: Thank you!
>
> Please, let's improve the complaining to helping ratio around
> here.

Start with yourself.  My comments are all factual and in a constructive
direction.  I've offered to get things done or help.  The day to "get real"
may yet come and it may be for TCLUG.


Chuck





From cncole at earthlink.net  Thu Nov  8 18:08:54 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 18:08:54 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG - U of M Location
Message-ID: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGEEAMCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>




> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Mike Miller
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 1:56 PM
>
>  The guy who recommended TIES clearly has an axe to grind with the U,

That's not accurate at all.  Arrangements for proper, mission-related
organizations were diligently sought and were not supported or acknowledged
by the U.  That included simple stuff like planning meeting space in order
to arrange to have noted guest speakers from out of town.  That background
and history is merely real data and an indication of the likely context for
TCLUG to ask for scheduling visibility or other commitments.  I don't care
enough for the U to have "an axe to grind".  I can be factual since I'm not
paid to promote it  :-)

Otherwise, it's a very congested area with limited and expensive parking.  I
can't get in there for meetings at rush hour.  Not anxious to have accidents
on the way either.



Chuck







From florin at iucha.net  Thu Nov  8 18:23:33 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 18:23:33 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGOEALCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <20071108134228.A18818@belka.space.umn.edu>
	<JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGOEALCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20071109002333.GB4456@iucha.net>

On Thu, Nov 08, 2007 at 05:48:46PM -0600, Chuck Cole wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jim Crumley
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 08, 2007 at 11:25:22AM -0600, Chuck Cole wrote:
> > > Real Time has dropped any visible connection with TCLUG activities as of
> > > several years ago, but probably still hosts this list.  I think it was a
> > > liability concern. Since TCLUG can't take responsibility or
> > insure anything,
> > > the organizing individuals and any seeming sponsors carry the
> > liability if
> > > anything happens.
> >
> > Do you have any real info on this, or is this just speculation?
> 
> Comments made to me privately by one of the Tanners, but without elaboration
> when I offered to host an event.  Real enough for me.
> 
> Get your own data.  Lack of mention, support, or appearance at events is
> apparent.

Uh-oh, the conspiracy is widening.  Were the Tanners in collusion with
the U, or were they acting independently?

florin

-- 
"You're just jealous because the voices only talk to me!"
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From jack at jacku.com  Fri Nov  9 00:16:53 2007
From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 00:16:53 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Saturday Meetings - Thread fork
Message-ID: <200711090016.53714.jack@jacku.com>

A quick note on the Saturday Linux meetings that are currently going on.  
There are in fact two such meetings. One meeting takes place on the second 
Saturday of the month and is a SIG of the Twin Cities PC User Group 
(www.tcpc.com - site currently undergoing alterations.) This meeting is 
getting ready to enter its 5th year (yikes!) this January. It was started 
when then TCPC President Terry Houle approached TCLUG for some volunteers to 
run a monthly meeting. I've been running those meetings ever since. All are 
welcome, they are held from 9AM-11AM at the Bloomington Eagles, Old Cedar Ave 
and Old Shakopee Rd. 

Earlier this year I received an email from Brian Dolan-Goecke that he was 
thinking about starting up a meeting on the last Saturday of the month at 
TIES. He wanted to make sure the two meetings wouldn't conflict with each 
other. Brian had been a regular at TCPC's Linux on Saturday for a while. 
Brian's meetings are little geekier than the ones we do at TCPC which are 
geared to beginners and people switching to Linux from that other operating 
system. He will need to answer the question of whether they are TCLUG 
meetings or not. 

BTW if anyone wants to join us Linux on Saturday is this week in Bloomington.

 
-- 
Jack Ungerleider
jack at jacku.com
http://www.jacku.com


From wdtj at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  9 09:27:17 2007
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 07:27:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Creating a problem determination guide
Message-ID: <119199.98036.qm@web53803.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I know this is a bit off topic...

Our support organization is trying to create a problem determination
guide for our product.  What I mean is a "scripted" flow chart that
they run through to try and isolate (or even fix) a customer's
problem.  The biggest issue I see with this is that as a product
changes over it's lifetime, the contents of this guide will change.  In
addition, we'll want this to be developed by the support personal as
they gain experience with the product, finding new diagnostic
procedures and tools.

This is likely something built on a
hierarchical database with a bunch of questions like, does this work?
Does that error occur?  Is there this message in a log?

Anyone seen this?  Any suggestions.
 
--- 
Wayne Johnson,                         | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003                         | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
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From jkjones at tcq.net  Fri Nov  9 10:02:20 2007
From: jkjones at tcq.net (Kraig Jones)
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007 10:02:20 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Creating a problem determination guide
In-Reply-To: <119199.98036.qm@web53803.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <119199.98036.qm@web53803.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4734848C.5000906@tcq.net>

Wayne Johnson wrote:
> I know this is a bit off topic...
>
> Our support organization is trying to create a problem determination 
> guide for our product.  What I mean is a "scripted" flow chart that 
> they run through to try and isolate (or even fix) a customer's 
> problem.  The biggest issue I see with this is that as a product 
> changes over it's lifetime, the contents of this guide will change.  
> In addition, we'll want this to be developed by the support personal 
> as they gain experience with the product, finding new diagnostic 
> procedures and tools.
>
> This is likely something built on a hierarchical database with a bunch 
> of questions like, does this work? Does that error occur?  Is there 
> this message in a log?
>
> Anyone seen this?  Any suggestions.
I think I know what you're talking about.  Years ago, I was looking at 
using such a product.  But that was years ago -- as I remember it ran in 
DOS and came on 5 1/4 floppies!  I'm sure the concept is still around, 
and has certainly improved since then.  I don't recall the name of that 
program (if I can find an old box of disks I'll see if I kept a demo), 
but I think there was a "K" in the initials.  The keyword to look for is 
"knowledge base" -- a little more precise than data base.

Kraig



From johntrammell at gmail.com  Fri Nov  9 10:51:03 2007
From: johntrammell at gmail.com (John J. Trammell)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 10:51:03 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Creating a problem determination guide
In-Reply-To: <119199.98036.qm@web53803.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <119199.98036.qm@web53803.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <68dbb6fe0711090851i70920512sf4f3f0c14b0ae3fa@mail.gmail.com>

Sounds like some sort of wiki would be suitable.

On Nov 9, 2007 9:27 AM, Wayne Johnson <wdtj at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I know this is a bit off topic...
>
> Our support organization is trying to create a problem determination guide
> for our product.  What I mean is a "scripted" flow chart that they run
> through to try and isolate (or even fix) a customer's problem.  The biggest
> issue I see with this is that as a product changes over it's lifetime, the
> contents of this guide will change.  In addition, we'll want this to be
> developed by the support personal as they gain experience with the product,
> finding new diagnostic procedures and tools.
>
> This is likely something built on a hierarchical database with a bunch of
> questions like, does this work? Does that error occur?  Is there this
> message in a log?
>
> Anyone seen this?  Any suggestions.
>
> ---
> Wayne Johnson,             | There are two kinds of people: Those
> 3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done,"
> Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right,
> (612) 522-7003             | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From strayf at freeshell.org  Fri Nov  9 10:57:47 2007
From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steve Cayford)
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007 10:57:47 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Saturday Meetings - Thread fork
In-Reply-To: <200711090016.53714.jack@jacku.com>
References: <200711090016.53714.jack@jacku.com>
Message-ID: <4734918B.2060006@freeshell.org>

Jack Ungerleider wrote:
> A quick note on the Saturday Linux meetings that are currently going on.  
> There are in fact two such meetings. One meeting takes place on the second 
> Saturday of the month and is a SIG of the Twin Cities PC User Group 
> (www.tcpc.com - site currently undergoing alterations.) This meeting is 
> getting ready to enter its 5th year (yikes!) this January. It was started 
> when then TCPC President Terry Houle approached TCLUG for some volunteers to 
> run a monthly meeting. I've been running those meetings ever since. All are 
> welcome, they are held from 9AM-11AM at the Bloomington Eagles, Old Cedar Ave 
> and Old Shakopee Rd. 
> 
> Earlier this year I received an email from Brian Dolan-Goecke that he was 
> thinking about starting up a meeting on the last Saturday of the month at 
> TIES. He wanted to make sure the two meetings wouldn't conflict with each 
> other. Brian had been a regular at TCPC's Linux on Saturday for a while. 
> Brian's meetings are little geekier than the ones we do at TCPC which are 
> geared to beginners and people switching to Linux from that other operating 
> system. He will need to answer the question of whether they are TCLUG 
> meetings or not. 
> 
> BTW if anyone wants to join us Linux on Saturday is this week in Bloomington.
> 
>  

Maybe this is pie-in-the-sky, but it would be cool if TCLUG, TCBUG, TCPC and
other folks doing *nixy meetings and presentations could have a shared
calendar online somewhere.

-Steve


From progressivepenguin at gmail.com  Fri Nov  9 11:07:57 2007
From: progressivepenguin at gmail.com (Steve T)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 11:07:57 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Saturday Meetings - Thread fork
In-Reply-To: <4734918B.2060006@freeshell.org>
References: <200711090016.53714.jack@jacku.com>
	<4734918B.2060006@freeshell.org>
Message-ID: <7156d5f20711090907q64c4765fj2d84fd7b55f3034b@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe this is pie-in-the-sky, but it would be cool if TCLUG, TCBUG, TCPC and

> other folks doing *nixy meetings and presentations could have a shared
> calendar online somewhere.
>
> Google calendar would work for me.

-- 
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act!"
-- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair)
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From tclug at lizakowski.com  Fri Nov  9 11:08:06 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 12:08:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Xen and the magic incantation to summon the DomU
In-Reply-To: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGEEAMCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGEEAMCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <200711091108.06553.tclug@lizakowski.com>


I downloaded a Xen image of Wordpress from rPath (rBuilder).  How do I get it 
running in Xen?  There's a number of different commands and tools, and I 
think I might need to make a config file as well.

Alternately, if there's an easy way to get a basic Ubuntu, Deb, or Fedora 
system running in Xen, I can install my own apps as needed.  

I'm running a Centos dom0.  Anyone have any Xen experience?

Jeremy


From srcfoo at gmail.com  Fri Nov  9 11:23:15 2007
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 11:23:15 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Xen and the magic incantation to summon the DomU
In-Reply-To: <200711091108.06553.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGEEAMCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<200711091108.06553.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30711090923w262ac36cp608ed3f878ca8f71@mail.gmail.com>

Jeremy,

Have you create the xen config file for it? If not you need to do this
first. There should be examples in /etc/xen.

Once that's ready, you can run:
xm create -c /path/to/config_file

Put it in /etc/xen/auto (I just symlink) and it will start
automatically at boot.

If you need more in depth help, let me know.

Eric

On 11/9/07, Jeremy <tclug at lizakowski.com> wrote:
>
> I downloaded a Xen image of Wordpress from rPath (rBuilder).  How do I get it
> running in Xen?  There's a number of different commands and tools, and I
> think I might need to make a config file as well.
>
> Alternately, if there's an easy way to get a basic Ubuntu, Deb, or Fedora
> system running in Xen, I can install my own apps as needed.
>
> I'm running a Centos dom0.  Anyone have any Xen experience?
>
> Jeremy
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From pcutler at foresightlinux.org  Fri Nov  9 11:33:51 2007
From: pcutler at foresightlinux.org (Paul Cutler)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 11:33:51 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Saturday Meetings - Thread fork
In-Reply-To: <7156d5f20711090907q64c4765fj2d84fd7b55f3034b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200711090016.53714.jack@jacku.com>
	<4734918B.2060006@freeshell.org>
	<7156d5f20711090907q64c4765fj2d84fd7b55f3034b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4c4ad4df0711090933r6e8aac42p59bcdb2e086b9105@mail.gmail.com>

Back when I was helping Jeremy with some of the planning (back when I
had free time!), I created a public calendar for the TCLUG on Google.

If you search for TCLUG on google calenar it should come up, or the
calendar ID is  (Calendar ID:
c3gmkb8g9laqk30lvqs4n21764 at group.calendar.google.com)

It *should* be open to all, including invitations.  If there is a
setting wrong, let me know and I'll try to update it.

Paul

On Nov 9, 2007 11:07 AM, Steve T <progressivepenguin at gmail.com> wrote:
> Maybe this is pie-in-the-sky, but it would be cool if TCLUG, TCBUG, TCPC and
>
> > other folks doing *nixy meetings and presentations could have a shared
> > calendar online somewhere.
> >
> >
> Google calendar would work for me.
>
> --
> "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act!"
> -- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair)
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>


From tclug at lizakowski.com  Fri Nov  9 11:34:40 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 12:34:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Xen and the magic incantation to summon the DomU
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30711090923w262ac36cp608ed3f878ca8f71@mail.gmail.com>
References: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGEEAMCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<200711091108.06553.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<579c6fd30711090923w262ac36cp608ed3f878ca8f71@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200711091134.40470.tclug@lizakowski.com>


Thanks!  I'll try that.

Jeremy

On Friday 09 November 2007 11:23:15 am Eric Peterson wrote:
> Jeremy,
>
> Have you create the xen config file for it? If not you need to do this
> first. There should be examples in /etc/xen.
>
> Once that's ready, you can run:
> xm create -c /path/to/config_file
>
> Put it in /etc/xen/auto (I just symlink) and it will start
> automatically at boot.
>
> If you need more in depth help, let me know.
>
> Eric
>
> On 11/9/07, Jeremy <tclug at lizakowski.com> wrote:
> > I downloaded a Xen image of Wordpress from rPath (rBuilder).  How do I
> > get it running in Xen?  There's a number of different commands and tools,
> > and I think I might need to make a config file as well.
> >
> > Alternately, if there's an easy way to get a basic Ubuntu, Deb, or Fedora
> > system running in Xen, I can install my own apps as needed.
> >
> > I'm running a Centos dom0.  Anyone have any Xen experience?
> >
> > Jeremy
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




From progressivepenguin at gmail.com  Fri Nov  9 13:04:09 2007
From: progressivepenguin at gmail.com (Steve T)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 13:04:09 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Saturday Meetings - Thread fork
In-Reply-To: <4c4ad4df0711090933r6e8aac42p59bcdb2e086b9105@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200711090016.53714.jack@jacku.com>
	<4734918B.2060006@freeshell.org>
	<7156d5f20711090907q64c4765fj2d84fd7b55f3034b@mail.gmail.com>
	<4c4ad4df0711090933r6e8aac42p59bcdb2e086b9105@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7156d5f20711091104w1c2def3bo259ac4b79e0c4c60@mail.gmail.com>

It's still there.  I'd volunteer to keep this updated if anyone will use it.

On Nov 9, 2007 11:33 AM, Paul Cutler <pcutler at foresightlinux.org> wrote:

> Back when I was helping Jeremy with some of the planning (back when I
> had free time!), I created a public calendar for the TCLUG on Google.
>
> If you search for TCLUG on google calenar it should come up, or the
> calendar ID is  (Calendar ID:
> c3gmkb8g9laqk30lvqs4n21764 at group.calendar.google.com)
>
> It *should* be open to all, including invitations.  If there is a
> setting wrong, let me know and I'll try to update it.
>
> Paul
>
> On Nov 9, 2007 11:07 AM, Steve T <progressivepenguin at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Maybe this is pie-in-the-sky, but it would be cool if TCLUG, TCBUG, TCPC
> and
> >
> > > other folks doing *nixy meetings and presentations could have a shared
> > > calendar online somewhere.
> > >
> > >
> > Google calendar would work for me.
> >
> > --
> > "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary
> act!"
> > -- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair)
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> >
>



-- 
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act!"
-- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair)
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From srcfoo at gmail.com  Fri Nov  9 13:31:18 2007
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 13:31:18 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Saturday Meetings - Thread fork
In-Reply-To: <7156d5f20711091104w1c2def3bo259ac4b79e0c4c60@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200711090016.53714.jack@jacku.com>
	<4734918B.2060006@freeshell.org>
	<7156d5f20711090907q64c4765fj2d84fd7b55f3034b@mail.gmail.com>
	<4c4ad4df0711090933r6e8aac42p59bcdb2e086b9105@mail.gmail.com>
	<7156d5f20711091104w1c2def3bo259ac4b79e0c4c60@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30711091131m36422c45o7b727459fb1f75a6@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/9/07, Steve T <progressivepenguin at gmail.com> wrote:
> It's still there.  I'd volunteer to keep this updated if anyone will use it.

I think the problem we ran into last time was that it required a Gmail
account to access it and not everyone had a Gmail account.

Are there other sites that would work better such as meetup.com?


From progressivepenguin at gmail.com  Fri Nov  9 13:38:03 2007
From: progressivepenguin at gmail.com (Steve T)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 13:38:03 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Saturday Meetings - Thread fork
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30711091131m36422c45o7b727459fb1f75a6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200711090016.53714.jack@jacku.com>
	<4734918B.2060006@freeshell.org>
	<7156d5f20711090907q64c4765fj2d84fd7b55f3034b@mail.gmail.com>
	<4c4ad4df0711090933r6e8aac42p59bcdb2e086b9105@mail.gmail.com>
	<7156d5f20711091104w1c2def3bo259ac4b79e0c4c60@mail.gmail.com>
	<579c6fd30711091131m36422c45o7b727459fb1f75a6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7156d5f20711091138