From andyzib at gmail.com  Tue May  1 12:06:22 2007
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 12:06:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perhaps OT - Laptop choice
In-Reply-To: <e3a54b020704101004v3620b0abp104702d45053d0fa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
	<cone.1175793962.400465.29683.1001@home>
	<65293fcc0704092221x34f438cq5ef405ab3d794b4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<e3a54b020704101004v3620b0abp104702d45053d0fa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e3a54b020705011006n946b354u9a6c0ad0b6cdd4f6@mail.gmail.com>

> I don't recall the name of the software, but there is an application
> that will allows for splitting the touch pad for left and right
> clicking.

Found an old bookmarks.htm. :)

Sidetrack:
http://www.ragingmenace.com/software/sidetrack/index.html


-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
0 rows returned


From srcfoo at gmail.com  Tue May  1 13:04:00 2007
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 13:04:00 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking Linksys running openwrt
Message-ID: <579c6fd30705011104o1007949cm7f88ff0738681772@mail.gmail.com>

I just moved from Minnetonka to Brooklyn Park. In the process I
transferred my cable internet. After dealing with Comcast on the phone
I looked for alternatives, but unfortunately it looks like Sprint is
the only other provider of DSL/Cable in the area. So I'm still with
Comcast (feel free to make recommendations).

I was able to get my connection working with my Linux laptop just
fine, but when I connect the Linksys which is running OpenWRT it never
gets an IP.

Any ideas? I'm thinking Comcast is somehow blocking my Linksys, but I
that's just speculation.

My old connection was Time Warner until Comcast took over.

Thanks,
Eric


From canito at dalan.us  Tue May  1 13:03:40 2007
From: canito at dalan.us (canito at dalan.us)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 13:03:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking Linksys running openwrt
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30705011104o1007949cm7f88ff0738681772@mail.gmail.com>
References: <579c6fd30705011104o1007949cm7f88ff0738681772@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070501130340.vbeacrk7eibogwok@mail.dalan.us>

I worked for the evil Comcast for a while and during this time I ran a  
few OpenWRT devices the they do not block this from the network as far  
as I know.
Actually, what steps have you taken to check why you're not getting a  
valid IP?

David


Quoting Eric Peterson <srcfoo at gmail.com>:

> I just moved from Minnetonka to Brooklyn Park. In the process I
> transferred my cable internet. After dealing with Comcast on the phone
> I looked for alternatives, but unfortunately it looks like Sprint is
> the only other provider of DSL/Cable in the area. So I'm still with
> Comcast (feel free to make recommendations).
>
> I was able to get my connection working with my Linux laptop just
> fine, but when I connect the Linksys which is running OpenWRT it never
> gets an IP.
>
> Any ideas? I'm thinking Comcast is somehow blocking my Linksys, but I
> that's just speculation.
>
> My old connection was Time Warner until Comcast took over.
>
> Thanks,
> Eric
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.



From jima at beer.tclug.org  Tue May  1 13:16:28 2007
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 13:16:28 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking Linksys running openwrt
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30705011104o1007949cm7f88ff0738681772@mail.gmail.com>
References: <579c6fd30705011104o1007949cm7f88ff0738681772@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0705011313100.7527@beer.tclug.org>

On Tue, 1 May 2007, Eric Peterson wrote:
*snip*
> Any ideas? I'm thinking Comcast is somehow blocking my Linksys, but I
> that's just speculation.

  As someone with 10 WRT54G* devices running OpenWRT on Comcast's network, 
I'm inclined to agree that it's speculation.
  Did you power-cycle the cable modem before trying to get a lease with the 
WRT?  I've noticed some are a little anal about allowing a second DHCP 
lease (yes, I know there's only one-at-a-time...they don't seem to).

      Jima


From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Tue May  1 13:23:29 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 13:23:29 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Dell To Offer Ubuntu
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0705011323020.19589@taxa.epi.umn.edu>



http://www.ubuntu.com/news/dell-to-offer-ubuntu

Mike


From cncole at earthlink.net  Tue May  1 13:30:40 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 13:30:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking Linksys running openwrt
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30705011104o1007949cm7f88ff0738681772@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGAEGMCHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Eric Peterson
> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 1:04 PM
>
> I just moved from Minnetonka to Brooklyn Park. In the process I
> transferred my cable internet. After dealing with Comcast on the phone
> I looked for alternatives, but unfortunately it looks like Sprint is
> the only other provider of DSL/Cable in the area. So I'm still with
> Comcast (feel free to make recommendations).
>
> I was able to get my connection working with my Linux laptop just
> fine, but when I connect the Linksys which is running OpenWRT it never
> gets an IP.
>
> Any ideas? I'm thinking Comcast is somehow blocking my Linksys, but I
> that's just speculation.
>
> My old connection was Time Warner until Comcast took over.
>
> Thanks,
> Eric

Perhaps a clue:

I have a friend in the Comcast area who reports that Comcast made her
replace a 54G Linksys WiFi router with a Belkin one in order to get
things to run.  She has since given away the Linksys router so I can't
check except by taking mine over there sometime.  Makes no sense to me,
and I would have scalped Comcast before changing brands so their tech
support knew what to do.  I just got her Belkin going again by telephone
help and the menus it has are quite different from my Linksys.

You should escalate until you reach intelligent life forms - if any
exist there.. ask for their attorney's contact info if that fails.  It's
probably something about the router's DHCP setup or funny business with
static IP.  Her Belkin router has an IP sequence that defaulted to
192.168.2.1 while all mine default to 192.168.1.1.  Perhaps the cable
side can alter the cable modem defaults: I regularly have Level 1 cable
folk tell me they set all my cable modem stuff and try to tell me I
can't see my cable modem status screen (192.168.100.1 on both Linksys
and Motorola cable modems) to read what clearly appears "by the book"
after modem lock (I'd like to get signal level before/without lock, but
cannot without lock and they are no help at all for that issue).


Chuck




From bbaptist at iexposure.com  Tue May  1 13:24:25 2007
From: bbaptist at iexposure.com (Bret Baptist)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 13:24:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking Linksys running openwrt
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30705011104o1007949cm7f88ff0738681772@mail.gmail.com>
References: <579c6fd30705011104o1007949cm7f88ff0738681772@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200705011324.25663.bbaptist@iexposure.com>

On Tuesday 01 May 2007 1:04:00 pm Eric Peterson wrote:
> I just moved from Minnetonka to Brooklyn Park. In the process I
> transferred my cable internet. After dealing with Comcast on the phone
> I looked for alternatives, but unfortunately it looks like Sprint is
> the only other provider of DSL/Cable in the area. So I'm still with
> Comcast (feel free to make recommendations).
>
> I was able to get my connection working with my Linux laptop just
> fine, but when I connect the Linksys which is running OpenWRT it never
> gets an IP.
>
> Any ideas? I'm thinking Comcast is somehow blocking my Linksys, but I
> that's just speculation.
>
> My old connection was Time Warner until Comcast took over.

I know that the dd-WRT firmware has an option to turn off spanning-tree 
protocol (STP) for use on a comcast internet connection.  It seems that 
comcast blocks the port you are on if they detect STP.  I am not sure if 
OpenWRT has the same option, but that is my guess.  


-- 
Bret Baptist
Senior Network Administrator
bbaptist at iexposure.com
Internet Exposure, Inc.
http://www.iexposure.com
(612)676-1946 x17

Providing Internet Services since 1995
Web Development ~ Search Engine Marketing ~ Web Analytics
Network Security ~ On Demand Tech Support ~ E-Mail Marketing
------------------------------------------


From jeruvin at gmail.com  Tue May  1 13:47:00 2007
From: jeruvin at gmail.com (jason reynolds)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 13:47:00 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking Linksys running openwrt
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30705011104o1007949cm7f88ff0738681772@mail.gmail.com>
References: <579c6fd30705011104o1007949cm7f88ff0738681772@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6eb23c4e0705011147x752b3bf3hdd5462880b285a46@mail.gmail.com>

I have a linksys running dd-wrt and it's working for me. (Not sure if it's
the same as OpenWRT, but just in case the info is helpful.)

Jason

On 5/1/07, Eric Peterson <srcfoo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I just moved from Minnetonka to Brooklyn Park. In the process I
> transferred my cable internet. After dealing with Comcast on the phone
> I looked for alternatives, but unfortunately it looks like Sprint is
> the only other provider of DSL/Cable in the area. So I'm still with
> Comcast (feel free to make recommendations).
>
> I was able to get my connection working with my Linux laptop just
> fine, but when I connect the Linksys which is running OpenWRT it never
> gets an IP.
>
> Any ideas? I'm thinking Comcast is somehow blocking my Linksys, but I
> that's just speculation.
>
> My old connection was Time Warner until Comcast took over.
>
> Thanks,
> Eric
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From erikerik at gmail.com  Tue May  1 14:09:47 2007
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 14:09:47 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking Linksys running openwrt
In-Reply-To: <200705011324.25663.bbaptist@iexposure.com>
References: <579c6fd30705011104o1007949cm7f88ff0738681772@mail.gmail.com>
	<200705011324.25663.bbaptist@iexposure.com>
Message-ID: <fc40260f0705011209n7b601718sc941d2fffee2a67d@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/1/07, Bret Baptist <bbaptist at iexposure.com> wrote:
>
> I know that the dd-WRT firmware has an option to turn off spanning-tree
> protocol (STP) for use on a comcast internet connection.  It seems that
> comcast blocks the port you are on if they detect STP.  I am not sure if
> OpenWRT has the same option, but that is my guess.

I've seen this option on my dd-wrt box.  My connection seems to work
fine through comcast whether or not STP is enabled. I'd guess that
they have a few different CMTSs out there and some of them don't play
nice with STP.

-erik


From jeremy at rosengren.org  Tue May  1 14:15:49 2007
From: jeremy at rosengren.org (Jeremy Rosengren)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 14:15:49 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking Linksys running openwrt
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30705011104o1007949cm7f88ff0738681772@mail.gmail.com>
References: <579c6fd30705011104o1007949cm7f88ff0738681772@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <463791E5.7040404@rosengren.org>

Eric Peterson wrote:
> I just moved from Minnetonka to Brooklyn Park. In the process I
> transferred my cable internet. After dealing with Comcast on the phone
> I looked for alternatives, but unfortunately it looks like Sprint is
> the only other provider of DSL/Cable in the area. So I'm still with
> Comcast (feel free to make recommendations).
>
> I was able to get my connection working with my Linux laptop just
> fine, but when I connect the Linksys which is running OpenWRT it never
> gets an IP.
>
> Any ideas? I'm thinking Comcast is somehow blocking my Linksys, but I
> that's just speculation.
>
> My old connection was Time Warner until Comcast took over.
>
>   
Some cable companies lock the MAC address, preventing a new PC/router
from getting an IP address via DHCP after another client has already
asked for one on that connection.

For Mediacom, which I have, all I have to do is remove power from the
cable modem for a couple of minutes to clear the ARP cache after which I
can power it on and connect a new machine.  Comcast may require the
additional step of having somebody reset things on their side.

-- jeremy


From srcfoo at gmail.com  Tue May  1 14:40:04 2007
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 14:40:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking Linksys running openwrt
In-Reply-To: <fc40260f0705011209n7b601718sc941d2fffee2a67d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <579c6fd30705011104o1007949cm7f88ff0738681772@mail.gmail.com>
	<200705011324.25663.bbaptist@iexposure.com>
	<fc40260f0705011209n7b601718sc941d2fffee2a67d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30705011240x67b9a68ap2d142ac9259f5b1e@mail.gmail.com>

I've tried power cycling everything in every way possible. That
doesn't seem to be the issue.

I know all the cables work because I can take it out of the Linksys
and plug it in to my laptop and viola it works. Perhaps the DHCP lease
is locked to a MAC address for a period of time.

It could be that the Linksys died but it literally was working just
fine with Comcast just hours prior to me testing it at the new
location.

I think I'll try feeding it a dhcp address from a dhcp server running
on a Linux machine and see if that works.

I'll also play with the STP settings.

Thanks for the ideas.

Eric


From john.meier at gmail.com  Tue May  1 15:52:48 2007
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 15:52:48 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking Linksys running openwrt
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30705011240x67b9a68ap2d142ac9259f5b1e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <579c6fd30705011104o1007949cm7f88ff0738681772@mail.gmail.com>
	<200705011324.25663.bbaptist@iexposure.com>
	<fc40260f0705011209n7b601718sc941d2fffee2a67d@mail.gmail.com>
	<579c6fd30705011240x67b9a68ap2d142ac9259f5b1e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <65293fcc0705011352x7cc5d89aq5907ccf1406b720f@mail.gmail.com>

Call the comcast general support number and navigate through the menus to
high speed support and there'll be an option to reauthorize your cable
modem.  do that, wait the prescribed time and power cycle the modem.  I've
hit the same problems with a stock linksys and a Dlink dfl-200 firewall.
the above solved my problems....


On 5/1/07, Eric Peterson <srcfoo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I've tried power cycling everything in every way possible. That
> doesn't seem to be the issue.
>
> I know all the cables work because I can take it out of the Linksys
> and plug it in to my laptop and viola it works. Perhaps the DHCP lease
> is locked to a MAC address for a period of time.
>
> It could be that the Linksys died but it literally was working just
> fine with Comcast just hours prior to me testing it at the new
> location.
>
> I think I'll try feeding it a dhcp address from a dhcp server running
> on a Linux machine and see if that works.
>
> I'll also play with the STP settings.
>
> Thanks for the ideas.
>
> Eric
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From jeff at digitalguy.net  Tue May  1 15:53:16 2007
From: jeff at digitalguy.net (jeff at digitalguy.net)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 20:53:16 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking Linksys running openwrt
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30705011104o1007949cm7f88ff0738681772@mail.gmail.com>
References: <579c6fd30705011104o1007949cm7f88ff0738681772@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070501205316.GA25769@hannah.hsd1.mn.comcast.net>

On Tue, May 01, 2007 at 01:04:00PM -0500, Eric Peterson wrote:
> I was able to get my connection working with my Linux laptop just
> fine, but when I connect the Linksys which is running OpenWRT it never
> gets an IP.
> 
> Any ideas? I'm thinking Comcast is somehow blocking my Linksys, but I
> that's just speculation.
> 
> My old connection was Time Warner until Comcast took over.
> 
> Thanks,
> Eric
> 
Try changing the MAC address on the WAN port of your WRT to that of the
laptop.

Jeff


From srcfoo at gmail.com  Tue May  1 17:00:26 2007
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 17:00:26 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking Linksys running openwrt
In-Reply-To: <65293fcc0705011352x7cc5d89aq5907ccf1406b720f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <579c6fd30705011104o1007949cm7f88ff0738681772@mail.gmail.com>
	<200705011324.25663.bbaptist@iexposure.com>
	<fc40260f0705011209n7b601718sc941d2fffee2a67d@mail.gmail.com>
	<579c6fd30705011240x67b9a68ap2d142ac9259f5b1e@mail.gmail.com>
	<65293fcc0705011352x7cc5d89aq5907ccf1406b720f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30705011500p4e021dbbo670705b03a750276@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/1/07, John Meier <john.meier at gmail.com> wrote:
> Call the comcast general support number and navigate through the menus to
> high speed support and there'll be an option to reauthorize your cable
> modem.  do that, wait the prescribed time and power cycle the modem.  I've
> hit the same problems with a stock linksys and a Dlink dfl-200 firewall.
> the above solved my problems....

I'll try this and if that doesn't work I'll try adding the laptop MAC
to the linksys.

Thanks.


From brockn at gmail.com  Tue May  1 17:19:27 2007
From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 17:19:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking Linksys running openwrt
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30705011500p4e021dbbo670705b03a750276@mail.gmail.com>
References: <579c6fd30705011104o1007949cm7f88ff0738681772@mail.gmail.com>
	<200705011324.25663.bbaptist@iexposure.com>
	<fc40260f0705011209n7b601718sc941d2fffee2a67d@mail.gmail.com>
	<579c6fd30705011240x67b9a68ap2d142ac9259f5b1e@mail.gmail.com>
	<65293fcc0705011352x7cc5d89aq5907ccf1406b720f@mail.gmail.com>
	<579c6fd30705011500p4e021dbbo670705b03a750276@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <741dcbb80705011519y52e8e861sc9dd9c2de0b9ede4@mail.gmail.com>

Does your cable modem have a battery backup?  I had the same issue
with my modem and I also thought it was my linksys router.

Turned out that it was a "stand by" button on the front. I had
accidently pressed it. Once I repressed it everything worked.

My device also allows phone service and has battery backup. Not sure
of the model.

Brock


On 5/1/07, Eric Peterson <srcfoo at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/1/07, John Meier <john.meier at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Call the comcast general support number and navigate through the menus to
> > high speed support and there'll be an option to reauthorize your cable
> > modem.  do that, wait the prescribed time and power cycle the modem.  I've
> > hit the same problems with a stock linksys and a Dlink dfl-200 firewall.
> > the above solved my problems....
>
> I'll try this and if that doesn't work I'll try adding the laptop MAC
> to the linksys.
>
> Thanks.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


-- 
http://free-sailboat-listings.com
http://spamdefeator.com


From admin at lctn.org  Tue May  1 17:59:00 2007
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 17:59:00 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] video capture / edit solution
Message-ID: <37883.204.212.34.10.1178060340.squirrel@lctn.org>

I have an Ubuntu box I want to use for multi media. I need to capture
video (via the composite port). I have tried vlc and am getting distorted
video. I have also tried Cinelerra, but it wont install. What is out there
that can be easily installed on Ubuntu that will capture video, save to
avi, mpeg, mov files, and can edit captured files?




-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.



From josh at radkeland.org  Wed May  2 06:25:32 2007
From: josh at radkeland.org (Joshua Radke)
Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 06:25:32 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] SELinux /etc/nshadow create denied
Message-ID: <1178105132.23930.13.camel@mercury.radkeland.org>

... but first things first.  I wouldn't miss tonight's meeting for the
world!

I'm attempting to incorporate web-chpass
(http://www.unicom.com/sw/web-chpass/) into my website running SELinux
(Fedora Core 6).  Since it's doing all sorts of things a web server has
no business doing, I'm working on a new policy (with the help of
system-config-selinux), which is almost correct.  Unfortunately, I'm
still getting:

avc: denied { create } for comm="nipasswd" cwd="/var/www/secure/cgi-bin"
dev=fd:00 egid=48 euid=0 exe="/usr/local/lib/web-chpass/nipasswd" exit=4
fsgid=48 fsuid=0 gid=48 inode=188244 item=1 items=2 mode=0100600
name="/etc/nshadow" obj=system_u:object_r:shadow_t:s0 ogid=48 ouid=0
pid=23759 rdev=00:00
scontext=user_u:system_r:httpd_webchpass_script_t:s0 sgid=48
subj=user_u:system_r:httpd_webchpass_script_t:s0 suid=0 tclass=file
tcontext=system_u:object_r:shadow_t:s0 tty=(none) uid=0

audit2allow -R recommends:
auth_manage_shadow(httpd_webchpass_script_t)

and audit2allow (no arguments) recommends:
allow httpd_webchpass_script_t shadow_t:file create;

After recompiling and rechecking, I continue to get the same avc
message.  The script itself works fine in permissive mode, and I get
the same message in either permissive or enforcing.

It seems strange to be denied the access with the second rule above?!?

If anybody could point me towards relevant resources, it would be much
appreciated.



From pcutler at foresightlinux.org  Wed May  2 08:51:15 2007
From: pcutler at foresightlinux.org (Paul Cutler)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 08:51:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG relaunched - Wed May 2, 6:30 - 8pm
In-Reply-To: <579750.43276.qm@web53809.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <579c6fd30704301351k68382c68j3fb7023eaa67da49@mail.gmail.com>
	<579750.43276.qm@web53809.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4c4ad4df0705020651i262ceab0ub3ec1fb7b6f77ce0@mail.gmail.com>

Just a reminder - today's the day for the TCLUG meeting!

When:  6:30 - 8:00 p.m.

Where:

University of Minnesota Minneapolis campus, EE/CSci Building , Room: 3-210
200 Union St SE, Minneapolis 55455
(Google Map:  http://tinyurl.com/2omnv6)

Agenda:

1. Welcome & Introduction
2. Linux on a USB Flash Drive  (Eric Peterson)
3. Getting involved (TCLUG information, future meetings & meeting
topics, upcoming Installfest, volunteer to speak at a TCLUG meeting)

I look forward to seeing you all tonight!  After the meeting, we'll
informally be grabbing some food & drinks.

Paul

<snip>


From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Wed May  2 21:24:22 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 21:24:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200705030224.l432OMH01494@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Free

Subject: UltraSparc, CRT, Printer

I've got a few things I don't want to store anymore, so these are all free for pickup in Eden Prairie:

Sun Ultra 30
* 300 MHz UltraSparc
* 512 MiB RAM
* Two 36 GB SCSI disks
This was running linux until I turned it off a few months ago.  It has a video card of some kind, but I've only used it as a headless server.

19-inch CRT.  It worked the last time I used it, sometime last year.

Epson C82 ink-jet printer.  Has been unused for about 18 months, so it may need new ink.

Email me at comradex at safetyfork.net.

Seller Email address: comradex at safetyfork dot net

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From tclug at greatlakedata.com  Wed May  2 22:57:39 2007
From: tclug at greatlakedata.com (greg wm)
Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 22:57:39 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] device driver developer?
Message-ID: <46395DB3.80302@greatlakedata.com>

sorry, after a tad of musical chairs tonight, who was i sitting across 
from just before i left?  you do device driver development...


From obelin23 at gmail.com  Thu May  3 07:11:02 2007
From: obelin23 at gmail.com (Charlie O)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 08:11:02 -0400
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux friendly DSL or Cable
Message-ID: <72278d10705030511h1976504cu95c2fdf8920aaa26@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I know this has come up before, but I tried searching the TCLUG site email
list and can't get it to respond.

My daughter wants to set up with a cable or DSL service that is Linux
friendly - I set up her new machine to dual boot Mepis 6.5 and WindowsXP,
and she wants to make Linux the main internet environment.

So, I am asking for suggestions for providers. I have Quest DSL and am
having good luck with it so I know that is an option. Are there cable
companies that are good to work with? Or, are there wireless providers you
like.

My apologies for bringing this topic up again. Thanks in advance for your
help.

Charlie
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From marc at e-skinner.net  Thu May  3 07:34:46 2007
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 07:34:46 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux friendly DSL or Cable
In-Reply-To: <72278d10705030511h1976504cu95c2fdf8920aaa26@mail.gmail.com>
References: <72278d10705030511h1976504cu95c2fdf8920aaa26@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4639D6E6.3030303@e-skinner.net>

what exactly do you mean "linux friendly" ... that they if you call them 
they will support your linux networking configuration issues?  or that 
there routers, network infrastructure, etc will "allow" a linux host to 
work?

i have had both comcast cable and qwest dsl for years working with many 
number of Linux hosts/distros.  i have never tried using linux to be the 
CPE device that connects directly to there network - ie: with an 
internal DSL card ... i use the Cisco 678 and the Motorla 5400 Bitsurfer 
for that.  buth the next hop into my network has always been some sort 
of linux iptables/qos/router/firewall.


Charlie O wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I know this has come up before, but I tried searching the TCLUG site 
> email list and can't get it to respond.
>
> My daughter wants to set up with a cable or DSL service that is Linux 
> friendly - I set up her new machine to dual boot Mepis 6.5 and 
> WindowsXP, and she wants to make Linux the main internet environment.
>
> So, I am asking for suggestions for providers. I have Quest DSL and am 
> having good luck with it so I know that is an option. Are there cable 
> companies that are good to work with? Or, are there wireless providers 
> you like.
>
> My apologies for bringing this topic up again. Thanks in advance for 
> your help.
>
> Charlie
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From marc at e-skinner.net  Thu May  3 07:36:17 2007
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 07:36:17 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - 750 drives for $200 after rebate
Message-ID: <4639D741.6040407@e-skinner.net>

just thought i'd mention, micro center has seagate sata3 750gb drives 
for $200 after a $60 mail in rebate.

time to pick up a few :)


From dniesen at gmail.com  Thu May  3 07:56:03 2007
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan Niesen)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 07:56:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - 750 drives for $200 after rebate
In-Reply-To: <4639D741.6040407@e-skinner.net>
References: <4639D741.6040407@e-skinner.net>
Message-ID: <47f4d5e70705030556g2c9a1c63n72f0d5538f22af8@mail.gmail.com>

Sounds like a great time to build a RaidZilla
(http://www.tmk.com/raidzilla/).  Now if only I had the data to
warrant the expense...

On 5/3/07, Marc Skinner <marc at e-skinner.net> wrote:
> just thought i'd mention, micro center has seagate sata3 750gb drives
> for $200 after a $60 mail in rebate.
>
> time to pick up a few :)
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


-- 
Donovan Niesen


From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us  Thu May  3 07:30:26 2007
From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (James Kaufman)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 07:30:26 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux friendly DSL or Cable
In-Reply-To: <72278d10705030511h1976504cu95c2fdf8920aaa26@mail.gmail.com>
References: <72278d10705030511h1976504cu95c2fdf8920aaa26@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070503123026.GA29225@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us>

On Thu, May 03, 2007 at 08:11:02AM -0400, Charlie O wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I know this has come up before, but I tried searching the TCLUG site email
> list and can't get it to respond.
> 
> My daughter wants to set up with a cable or DSL service that is Linux
> friendly - I set up her new machine to dual boot Mepis 6.5 and WindowsXP,
> and she wants to make Linux the main internet environment.
> 
> So, I am asking for suggestions for providers. I have Quest DSL and am
> having good luck with it so I know that is an option. Are there cable
> companies that are good to work with? Or, are there wireless providers you
> like.
> 
> My apologies for bringing this topic up again. Thanks in advance for your
> help.
> 
> Charlie

IPHouse has been good to me.

-- 
Jim Kaufman
Linux Evangelist
public key 0x6D802619


From florin at iucha.net  Thu May  3 08:09:21 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 08:09:21 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - 750 drives for $200 after rebate
In-Reply-To: <4639D741.6040407@e-skinner.net>
References: <4639D741.6040407@e-skinner.net>
Message-ID: <20070503130920.GP26854@iucha.net>

On Thu, May 03, 2007 at 07:36:17AM -0500, Marc Skinner wrote:
> just thought i'd mention, micro center has seagate sata3 750gb drives 
> for $200 after a $60 mail in rebate.

Somebody at the minibar who works in storage mentioned that those
seagate drives only use checksums for one side of the platters.

Caveat emptor (for both the hard drive and the tip).

florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From tclug at natecarlson.com  Thu May  3 09:17:20 2007
From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 09:17:20 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - 750 drives for $200 after rebate
In-Reply-To: <20070503130920.GP26854@iucha.net>
References: <4639D741.6040407@e-skinner.net> <20070503130920.GP26854@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0705030917030.10158@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>

On Thu, 3 May 2007, Florin Iucha wrote:
>> just thought i'd mention, micro center has seagate sata3 750gb drives
>> for $200 after a $60 mail in rebate.
>
> Somebody at the minibar who works in storage mentioned that those 
> seagate drives only use checksums for one side of the platters.
>
> Caveat emptor (for both the hard drive and the tip).

Also not such a good deal since you can get 500's for $125 regularly and 
$100 on a semi-regular basis..

------------------------------------------------------------------------
| nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com |
|       depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981            |
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From auditodd at comcast.net  Thu May  3 09:56:54 2007
From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 14:56:54 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux friendly DSL or Cable
Message-ID: <050320071456.28110.4639F836000A62C500006DCE22007504380B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net>


 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Charlie O" <obelin23 at gmail.com>
> Hi,
> 
> I know this has come up before, but I tried searching the TCLUG site email
> list and can't get it to respond.
> 
> My daughter wants to set up with a cable or DSL service that is Linux
> friendly - I set up her new machine to dual boot Mepis 6.5 and WindowsXP,
> and she wants to make Linux the main internet environment.
> 
> So, I am asking for suggestions for providers. I have Quest DSL and am
> having good luck with it so I know that is an option. Are there cable
> companies that are good to work with? Or, are there wireless providers you
> like.
> 
> My apologies for bringing this topic up again. Thanks in advance for your
> help.
> 
> Charlie

I have been using a Linux firewall on Comcast cable for over 5 years now with no problems. I had to briefly hook a Windows machine up when I dumped their cable modem and put my own into place to "register" the cable modem with them.

Do your daughter a favor and have her invest in either a dedicated Linux firewall (Smoothwall or IPCop to name a few) or one of the consumer broadband firewalls (Linksys or Netgear). I would not depend on the Windows firewall to protect a computer.
--
==========
Todd Young

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Subject: [tclug-list] Linux friendly DSL or Cable
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From swhite at ci.bloomington.mn.us  Thu May  3 10:06:37 2007
From: swhite at ci.bloomington.mn.us (Steven White)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 10:06:37 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] consulting rates?
In-Reply-To: <20070404145809.70927.qmail@web53811.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <694fa1450704031848w75bfde39mab703be4bde2f0b7@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070404145809.70927.qmail@web53811.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4639B42C.A690.0025.0@ci.bloomington.mn.us>

I don't do consulting but I wondered once how much I would have to charge if I did.
 
I went to my employer's HR department and asked them for everything they contributed for me to various places.  That included FICA, Medicare, pension, life insurance, long-term disability, their share of medical insurance, dental insurance, etc..  I added that to my salary to come up with the amount of money I would have to get to have the same income I have as an employee (because I would have to pay my own FICA, life insurance, long-term disability, etc.).
 
Then I tried to figure out how many days in a year I would actually work.  The 52 weeks times five days per week has to have subtracted from it holidays, vacations, and maybe a little sick leave.
 
Then I took the advice of the consulting books to realize that I would not work eight hours every day.  In fact, considering overhead, travel, education, and so on, I might average only six hours of time each day that I could in good conscience bill for.
 
Finally, I divided dollars by hours to get an hourly figure.  I think that at the time is was around $52.
 
Steven White
City of Bloomington
1800 W Old Shakopee Rd
Bloomington MN 55431-3096
USA
952-563-4882 (voice)
952-563-4672 (fax)
steven.white at ci.bloomington.mn.us 

>>> Wayne Johnson <wdtj at yahoo.com> 4/4/2007 9:58 AM >>>
What I did was take what I was making as a full time developer, add in 7.5% for the self employment taxes, Another 6% for vacation/sick and then a fixed monthly charge for insurance, etc if you need to.  Then split this all up to an hourly charge.

Remember that there is always down time between contracts, so short term contracts need to charge more for the between the gaps overhead.

I was charging $72/hr for short term and $60 long term YMMV.

At one point I was working for a contract house (at $30/hr + benefits) and I later found out the contract house was charging the client $75/hr.  They were making a VERY nice profit on my labor.

Dave Dash <dave.dash at gmail.com> wrote:


I've seen people charge anywhere from $25-100/hr for various computer related consulting.  Unfortunately nobody likes to share how much they charge as it tends to be a not for public consumption.  

If I weren't already doing some consulting (albeit on the side), I'd pick a number between $25-100 that is more than what I'd be making at a similar full time or even contract gig (and you can call recruiters to find those out).  Then just keep to that.  But really the rate doesn't matter so much as the quality of service.... of course, I'm not the small business owner cutting you the check, so what do I know. 

-d

On 4/3/07, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:

Guys,

What are some good resources on consulting rates?  I'm talking to a
small business owner about Linux support and consulting for their shop.
Mainly remote troubleshooting, with bulk work during weekends, if 
need be.

Thanks,
florin

--
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 

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_______________________________________________ 
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 





-- 
Dave Dash
612.670.0621
Discover your favorite restaurant: reviewsby.us ( http://reviewsby.us/ )
gtalk: dave.dash _______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 



--- 
Wayne Johnson,             | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003             | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis

8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick ( http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/?fr=oni_on_mail&amp;#news ) in no time
with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. ( http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/?fr=oni_on_mail&amp;#news )
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From swhite at ci.bloomington.mn.us  Thu May  3 10:37:29 2007
From: swhite at ci.bloomington.mn.us (Steven White)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 10:37:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need info
In-Reply-To: <29158.168.86.12.2.1175879402.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com>
References: <mailman.3.1175878805.9188.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<29158.168.86.12.2.1175879402.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com>
Message-ID: <4639BB68.A690.0025.0@ci.bloomington.mn.us>

Two other ideas:
 
If you purchase a boxed distribution (like SUSE Open Linux from Novell) you get 90 days of free support for getting it running.  I myself am not too experienced with Linux, but long ago I installed Mandrake on a Windows computer for dual boot and it was fairly painless.  One would hope things are even better now, although I don't know from my own experience.
 
Or, if you goal is just experimenting, you could watch the Sunday Star-Tribune want ads (section 355) for a really cheap used computer.  Put Linux on that one instead and experiment in total safety.  There is something reassuring in knowing that if you hose your computer beyond repair you can just wipe out the disk and reinstall.  In fact, I have done that a few times now, and I notice my confidence level is up quite a bit.
 
If you are handy with hardware and like to fuss, and could find a used computer with an earlier version of Windows that does not require activation, you could get that Norton Ghost program and a fresh new hard disk, clone the hard disk from the used computer as backup, and you would be really free to experiment without fear.  Then when you are sure of your ability, you could dual-boot your main machine.
 
Ok, that was three ideas.
 
Steven White
City of Bloomington
1800 W Old Shakopee Rd
Bloomington MN 55431-3096
USA
952-563-4882 (voice)
952-563-4672 (fax)
steven.white at ci.bloomington.mn.us 

>>> "Chris Schumann" <cschumann at twp-llc.com> 4/6/2007 12:10 PM >>>
> Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 08:41:50 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
> From: "Nick" <nick at chaska.net>

> I would like to do a dual boot ( XP & Linux ) on my computer. Where can
> I take my computer for help? I live in Chaska. I'm 68 yrs old , so
> please be patient with me.
>
>                Thanks, Nick

Welcome, Nick!

If there's an installfest coming up, that would be a perfect time to do
it. However, there are many places to look for yourself.

I imagine you know you can boot a LiveCD and run Linux that way, without
changing your hard drive. But to really install, you'll need to either
make room on your existing hard drive, which can be tricky, or add another
drive and install Linux on that.

If you can add a drive, that may be the easiest. However, you can use
Knoppix to re-size your existing NTFS partition and go from there.

So we know what we're dealing with, what's your CPU and RAM? And about
your hard drive, what size is it, and how much is used?

Also, do you have a preferred Linux distribution?

Chris




_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
http://mailman.mn ( http://mailman.mn/ )-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From chewie at wookimus.net  Thu May  3 10:59:42 2007
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 10:59:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux friendly DSL or Cable
In-Reply-To: <20070503123026.GA29225@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> 
References: <72278d10705030511h1976504cu95c2fdf8920aaa26@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070503123026.GA29225@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us>
Message-ID: <20070503155942.B751F27E9@skuld.wookimus.net>

I would agree with James; ipHouse has been good to me.



From chewie at wookimus.net  Thu May  3 11:17:26 2007
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 11:17:26 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Cheap Computers Advice (was Re:  Need info)
In-Reply-To: <4639BB68.A690.0025.0@ci.bloomington.mn.us> 
References: <mailman.3.1175878805.9188.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<29158.168.86.12.2.1175879402.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com>
	<4639BB68.A690.0025.0@ci.bloomington.mn.us>
Message-ID: <20070503161726.B90D827E9@skuld.wookimus.net>

Regarding cheap computers, I wouldn't bother reading the printed
classifieds.  The paper charges some $80 to do the weekend ads, so
you'll be paying for that by proxy when you buy the computer.  Also,
consider that you can generally buy a new cheap computer for under $500
at the major retailers, consistently.  Walmart sells (or used to?)
Linspire boxes on the cheap; a great way to get started with Linux.  Not
sure I would buy from Walmart on moral principle, but it is an optinon.

There are local white-box makers, too.  General Nanosystems
(http://nanosys1.com/) and Tran Micro on University Avenue have pretty
nice little starter systems, sans monitor, in the $300-400 range.  I've
got a 13" and a 17" monitor I'm not using.  One of these days, I'm going
to replace the 19", too, so I'll make that available to the TCLUG
members off our classifieds site.

And there's the segway...  If you have less to spend, first look at the
TCLUG classifieds site.  People are giving away free computers or cheap
computers all the time.  One of these days, I'll be going through my
junk and listing everything there for free.  I've got a couple old
pentium II's I'll probably be getting rid of some time.  I have a couple
cases to get rid of.  I've got an old UltraSparc 5 I'm not using, though
perhaps OpenSolaris 10 might work nicely on it (I've had issues with
Linux on it).

The next stop is Craig's List.  It's free.  You won't be paying for the
seller's listing fees; there are none.  Etc.

Where else.  I think there was a local company that purchases old
systems off of companies and sells them cheaply.  The URL was posted to
this list a while back.

Anyway, you get the idea.  Good luck!



From tompoe at fngi.net  Thu May  3 11:30:50 2007
From: tompoe at fngi.net (Tom Poe)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 11:30:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Cheap Computers Advice (was Re:  Need info)
In-Reply-To: <20070503161726.B90D827E9@skuld.wookimus.net>
References: <mailman.3.1175878805.9188.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>	<29158.168.86.12.2.1175879402.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com>	<4639BB68.A690.0025.0@ci.bloomington.mn.us>
	<20070503161726.B90D827E9@skuld.wookimus.net>
Message-ID: <463A0E3A.2070009@fngi.net>

Chad Walstrom wrote:
> Regarding cheap computers, I wouldn't bother reading the printed
> classifieds.  The paper charges some $80 to do the weekend ads, so
> you'll be paying for that by proxy when you buy the computer.  Also,
> consider that you can generally buy a new cheap computer for under $500
> at the major retailers, consistently.  Walmart sells (or used to?)
> Linspire boxes on the cheap; a great way to get started with Linux.  Not
> sure I would buy from Walmart on moral principle, but it is an optinon.
>
> There are local white-box makers, too.  General Nanosystems
> (http://nanosys1.com/) and Tran Micro on University Avenue have pretty
> nice little starter systems, sans monitor, in the $300-400 range.  I've
> got a 13" and a 17" monitor I'm not using.  One of these days, I'm going
> to replace the 19", too, so I'll make that available to the TCLUG
> members off our classifieds site.
>
> And there's the segway...  If you have less to spend, first look at the
> TCLUG classifieds site.  People are giving away free computers or cheap
> computers all the time.  One of these days, I'll be going through my
> junk and listing everything there for free.  I've got a couple old
> pentium II's I'll probably be getting rid of some time.  I have a couple
> cases to get rid of.  I've got an old UltraSparc 5 I'm not using, though
> perhaps OpenSolaris 10 might work nicely on it (I've had issues with
> Linux on it).
>
> The next stop is Craig's List.  It's free.  You won't be paying for the
> seller's listing fees; there are none.  Etc.
>
> Where else.  I think there was a local company that purchases old
> systems off of companies and sells them cheaply.  The URL was posted to
> this list a while back.
>
> Anyway, you get the idea.  Good luck!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>   
If I want to buy a cheap computer that has lots of power, I use the 
university computer recycle store.
http://www1.umn.edu/ucs/usedcomp.php
Tom
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From andyzib at gmail.com  Thu May  3 13:44:48 2007
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 13:44:48 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking Linksys running openwrt
In-Reply-To: <741dcbb80705011519y52e8e861sc9dd9c2de0b9ede4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <579c6fd30705011104o1007949cm7f88ff0738681772@mail.gmail.com>
	<200705011324.25663.bbaptist@iexposure.com>
	<fc40260f0705011209n7b601718sc941d2fffee2a67d@mail.gmail.com>
	<579c6fd30705011240x67b9a68ap2d142ac9259f5b1e@mail.gmail.com>
	<65293fcc0705011352x7cc5d89aq5907ccf1406b720f@mail.gmail.com>
	<579c6fd30705011500p4e021dbbo670705b03a750276@mail.gmail.com>
	<741dcbb80705011519y52e8e861sc9dd9c2de0b9ede4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e3a54b020705031144k372d3274m42caed13898781e6@mail.gmail.com>

Connect your router device before activating your Comcast connection
for the first time. If you don't do that, you have two options:

Option 1: Call Comcast to reset your MAC address registration.

Option 2: Clone your Laptop's MAC address to your router.


-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
0 rows returned


From auditodd at comcast.net  Thu May  3 18:17:52 2007
From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 23:17:52 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking Linksys running openwrt
Message-ID: <050320072317.4775.463A6DA00009B537000012A722070032010B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net>

I live in the southeast suburbs and I can definitively state that this is NOT true.

I have switched between at least 4 different computers for use as my Smoothwall firewall and all I have ever had to do is power cycle the modem and then wait maybe 5 minutes.

YMMV, as Comcast has bought out different providers within the Twin Cities.
My previous provider was AT&T.

--
==========
Todd Young

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Andrew Zbikowski" <andyzib at gmail.com>
> Connect your router device before activating your Comcast connection
> for the first time. If you don't do that, you have two options:
> 
> Option 1: Call Comcast to reset your MAC address registration.
> 
> Option 2: Clone your Laptop's MAC address to your router.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
> SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
> 0 rows returned
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From SDALAN04 at smumn.edu  Thu May  3 22:28:22 2007
From: SDALAN04 at smumn.edu (SDALAN04 at smumn.edu)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 22:28:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: ie4linux
Message-ID: <200705040328222656c95dc2@mail.smumn.edu>

I installed SUSE on a HP Laptop and everything so far has been running great. I was a little hesitant but its been really smooth and easy to manage.

As of recent, I have had to deal with users (mostly in Europe)from organizations running on open source. And of course, due to compatibility issues we only support IE. 

I was wondering if there's anyone one the list that has used ie4linux on MAC OS X or Linux?

David 



"Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds" - Einstein

"Cuanta estupidez en tan poco cerebro!"



From brian at ropers-huilman.net  Thu May  3 22:50:57 2007
From: brian at ropers-huilman.net (Brian D. Ropers-Huilman)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 22:50:57 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: ie4linux
In-Reply-To: <200705040328222656c95dc2@mail.smumn.edu>
References: <200705040328222656c95dc2@mail.smumn.edu>
Message-ID: <f0e11c480705032050y3d5ab411lc74cee206e156eb9@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/3/07, SDALAN04 at smumn.edu <SDALAN04 at smumn.edu> wrote:
> I was wondering if there's anyone one the list that has used ie4linux on MAC OS X or Linux?

I've run it, for access to certain sites, and it works just fine. I've
done this on both Gentoo and most recently (K)ubuntu installs.

-- 
Brian D. Ropers-Huilman, Director
Systems Administration and Technical Operations
Supercomputing Institute                           <bropers at msi.umn.edu>
599 Walter Library                                   +1 612-626-5948 (V)
117 Pleasant Street S.E.                             +1 612-624-8861 (F)
University of Minnesota                               Twin Cities Campus
Minneapolis, MN 55455-0255                       http://www.msi.umn.edu/


From srcfoo at gmail.com  Fri May  4 01:22:07 2007
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 01:22:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking Linksys running openwrt
In-Reply-To: <e3a54b020705031144k372d3274m42caed13898781e6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <579c6fd30705011104o1007949cm7f88ff0738681772@mail.gmail.com>
	<200705011324.25663.bbaptist@iexposure.com>
	<fc40260f0705011209n7b601718sc941d2fffee2a67d@mail.gmail.com>
	<579c6fd30705011240x67b9a68ap2d142ac9259f5b1e@mail.gmail.com>
	<65293fcc0705011352x7cc5d89aq5907ccf1406b720f@mail.gmail.com>
	<579c6fd30705011500p4e021dbbo670705b03a750276@mail.gmail.com>
	<741dcbb80705011519y52e8e861sc9dd9c2de0b9ede4@mail.gmail.com>
	<e3a54b020705031144k372d3274m42caed13898781e6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30705032322o5ebd7c10m2ffb7f5835eebaee@mail.gmail.com>

In the end it was hardware. It was very strange that it failed at some
point between being powered off, transported in my car to the new
location, and then powered on. Wish I could have tested it earlier,
but I had to go buy another router.

Thank you to everyone for all the responses.

On a side note, prior to Comcast aquiring Time Warner's customers, I
paid $39.99 per month for cable internet. When I moved, Comcast told
me that it would go up to $62/month unless I also accepted cable TV.
They also charged me almost $50 to transfer the service. So now I pay
$45/month for the internet connection and $9.75 for the most basic
cable package. I found the whole thing very annoying and if I could
have switched service to someone like iphouse I would have.
Unfortunately, it looks like Comcast is the only one that offers
service in my area. Makes a fellow feel powerless.

Cheers!
Eric

On 5/3/07, Andrew Zbikowski <andyzib at gmail.com> wrote:
> Connect your router device before activating your Comcast connection
> for the first time. If you don't do that, you have two options:
>
> Option 1: Call Comcast to reset your MAC address registration.
>
> Option 2: Clone your Laptop's MAC address to your router.
>
>
> --
> Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
> SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
> 0 rows returned
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From SDALAN04 at smumn.edu  Fri May  4 06:25:07 2007
From: SDALAN04 at smumn.edu (SDALAN04 at smumn.edu)
Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 06:25:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: ie4linux
Message-ID: <200705041125072156c97d47@mail.smumn.edu>

 Thanks Guys,

I installed in it on SUSE and it works fine I have not had time to debug the application. One of the things that I " NEED" is java run time environment to work with IE. I have looked into running alternatives to Java Sun, but it appears according to many threads on their forum this is not a feature. It would be cool if anyone would take the challenge to document an ie4linux install on MAC OS X =)

Thanks,

David
  
 On Thursday, May 03, 2007 11:26 PM, Larry Rees wrote:

Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 23:26:50 -0500
From: Larry Rees
To: "SDALAN04 at smumn.edu" 
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT: ie4linux

  I've got ie4linux installed on Mandriva 2006 (Free) and it seems to work ok, but I've not used it extensively. Seems to have some limits on features but I can't recall precisely what these are, my primary purpose for installing it was that IE was required by some tax preparation software I was trying to run on my Mandriva box. There was a warning on the ie4linux website where I downloaded it that it shouldn't be used for normal websurfing, but was there for developers to test their programs on IE. I don't know what security probems it opens up, if any, but I got the impresion that it had some. Hope this helps... 

On 5/3/07, SDALAN04 at smumn.edu <SDALAN04 at smumn.edu> wrote: I installed SUSE on a HP Laptop and everything so far has been running great. I was a little hesitant but its been really smooth and easy to manage. 

As of recent, I have had to deal with users (mostly in Europe)from organizations running on open source. And of course, due to compatibility issues we only support IE.

I was wondering if there's anyone one the list that has used ie4linux on MAC OS X or Linux? 

David



"Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds" - Einstein

"Cuanta estupidez en tan poco cerebro!"


_______________________________________________ 
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 

   
"Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds" - Einstein

"Cuanta estupidez en tan poco cerebro!"
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From josh at joshwelch.com  Fri May  4 07:16:27 2007
From: josh at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch)
Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 07:16:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: ie4linux
In-Reply-To: <200705040328222656c95dc2@mail.smumn.edu>
References: <200705040328222656c95dc2@mail.smumn.edu>
Message-ID: <20070504071627.uf40uthskagw4k4w@bullwinkle.joshwelch.com>

Quoting SDALAN04 at smumn.edu:

> I installed SUSE on a HP Laptop and everything so far has been 
> running great. I was a little hesitant but its been really smooth and 
> easy to manage.
>
> As of recent, I have had to deal with users (mostly in Europe)from 
> organizations running on open source. And of course, due to 
> compatibility issues we only support IE.
>
> I was wondering if there's anyone one the list that has used ie4linux 
> on MAC OS X or Linux?
>
Huh, looks interesting. I haven't tried that before. I have used 
Crossover Office to run IE on Linux, worked fine. May have to try this 
one some time for s&g.

Josh


From srcfoo at gmail.com  Fri May  4 09:56:39 2007
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 09:56:39 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on USB thumbstick links
Message-ID: <579c6fd30705040756x38182ec3p8eac6d0ca9439373@mail.gmail.com>

For anyone that was at the meeting, thanks for coming! Here are some
links to help you install Linux on a USB disk such as a thumb drive.

Some that I've used
----------------------------------
This one will get the same results I demoed on Wednesday...
http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Bootable_USB_Key

A good small distro for system recovery...
http://www.sysresccd.org/Howto_install-usb-stick



Some that I haven't used but look promising
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This site points to a lot of different howtos...
http://www.pendrivelinux.com

A server oriented version...
http://www.linuxonastick.com/


I believe it was Florin who suggested Buildroot. I didn't have a link
but from the description he provided it sounds like it may be this
site http://buildroot.uclibc.org/. If it isn't that site, please
correct me.



This is a list submitted by David Cargo
-------------------------------------------------------------------
These first links deal with Live CDs, because they are related to
flash-resident Linux.

http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php

http://www.livecdnews.com/

http://linuxmonitor.net/blog/2007/03/top-5-linux-live-cddvds.html

http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html

These are links specific to "Linux on a stick."

http://www.linux-live.org/

http://www.linuxonastick.com/

http://www.debuntu.org/how-to-install-ubuntu-linux-on-usb-bar

http://www.erikveen.dds.nl/qemupuppy/index.html

http://puppylinux.org/wikka/FlashPuppy

http://feraga.com/

http://www.networkworld.com/newsletters/linux/2006/0731linux1.html


From florin at iucha.net  Fri May  4 10:04:59 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 10:04:59 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on USB thumbstick links
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30705040756x38182ec3p8eac6d0ca9439373@mail.gmail.com>
References: <579c6fd30705040756x38182ec3p8eac6d0ca9439373@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070504150458.GW26854@iucha.net>

On Fri, May 04, 2007 at 09:56:39AM -0500, Eric Peterson wrote:
> I believe it was Florin who suggested Buildroot. I didn't have a link
> but from the description he provided it sounds like it may be this
> site http://buildroot.uclibc.org/. If it isn't that site, please
> correct me.

Buildroot is for those who long for linux-from-scratch and gentoo.

For those that miss slackware, there is http://www.slax.org/ .

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From bbaptist at iexposure.com  Fri May  4 10:31:55 2007
From: bbaptist at iexposure.com (Bret Baptist)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 10:31:55 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Job opening at Internet Exposure
Message-ID: <200705041031.55625.bbaptist@iexposure.com>

I thought someone on the list might be interested in an opening we have here 
at Internet Exposure.  Please email me off list with any inquiries.

Thank you.


-----------Position description-----------
Internet Exposure
Network Adminstrator 
Full-Time Job

Internet Exposure is a Minnesota Web Development Company specializing in 
database driven websites, custom applications, web marketing and hosting. 
Since 1995, Internet Exposure has provided solutions to help businesses keep 
pace with opportunities offered by Internet technology. Team iE analyzes 
existing sites and offers both design and structural improvements. We also 
suggest vehicles such as search engine optimization and subscriber-based 
e-mail services to draw appropriate traffic to the web site.

http://www.iexposure.com

Schedule: 8-5 / 9-6 M-F
Salary/Wages: 
Location: North East Minneapolis

RESPONSIBILITIES:

Answer and assist customers with issues regarding web hosting, e-mail, 
internet connectivity, etc. 
Assisting the management of IIS and Apache web servers
Log all technical support calls in database
Assist in the management of domain names for customers
Assist clients on site (only an occasional event)
Support internal staff; Linux, Mac and PC environment
Take direction and guidance from senior Network Administrators

QUALIFICATIONS:
Prefer both Linux and Windows server experience
Workstation configuration support (email, ip configuration, dialup setup, 
basic troubleshooting procedures)
Hardware configuration support (basic hardware troubleshooting skills, able to 
take apart and put together a computer system)
Network skills (understanding of routing, switching, bridging, sub netting, 
network troubleshooting, network topologies)
Network security (understanding of firewalls, user permissions, basic security 
procedures)
Customer support skills (phone support, email support, personable)
Provide excellent customer service
Be self motivated and highly organized
Ability to work independently

For this position, we are seeking a technical person to assist in maintaining 
IE?s web hosting and IP environment. We are seeking to add a person 
interested in an opportunity to work with a small exciting firm that offers 
growth potential in an expanding business. We expect a positive attitude, a 
passion for service and the motivation to learn and grow in the technology 
field.  You will work directly with our Project Managers, Developers and 
Sales Managers.

This is an excellent position with great opportunities for a highly organized, 
motivated candidate. E-mail us today and get started on a new career!

Please e-mail your resume and cover letter.
-- 
Bret Baptist
Senior Network Administrator
bbaptist at iexposure.com
Internet Exposure, Inc.
http://www.iexposure.com
(612)676-1946 x17

Providing Internet Services since 1995
Web Development ~ Search Engine Marketing ~ Web Analytics
Network Security ~ On Demand Tech Support ~ E-Mail Marketing
------------------------------------------


From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com  Sat May  5 14:12:13 2007
From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John Trammell)
Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 14:12:13 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux friendly DSL or Cable
In-Reply-To: <72278d10705030511h1976504cu95c2fdf8920aaa26@mail.gmail.com>
References: <72278d10705030511h1976504cu95c2fdf8920aaa26@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070505191213.GA1759@mail.el-swifto.com>

On Thu, May 03, 2007 at 08:11:02AM -0400, Charlie O wrote:
> I know this has come up before, but I tried searching the TCLUG site email
> list and can't get it to respond.
> 
> My daughter wants to set up with a cable or DSL service that is Linux
> friendly - I set up her new machine to dual boot Mepis 6.5 and WindowsXP,
> and she wants to make Linux the main internet environment.
> 
> So, I am asking for suggestions for providers. I have Quest DSL and am
> having good luck with it so I know that is an option. Are there cable
> companies that are good to work with? Or, are there wireless providers you
> like.

My ISP is Real-Time (http://real-time.com/), which also hosts the TCLUG.
They are more than linux-friendly.  I mean, like, get a room already.

Since I live in Minneapolis, I'm watching the wireless rollout with
more than a little interest....

-- 
trammell at el-swifto.com  9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58  FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5
Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG)      Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota


From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sat May  5 17:35:35 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 17:35:35 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200705052235.l45MZZa17608@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: Dell PowerEdge Servers

Dell PowerEdge 1300's

450mhz & 500mhz with 256mb pc 100 ram.
The 450 has 4x8gb scsi drives in raid 5

The 500mhz has 3x9gb scsi drives in raid 5

No OS. Cd-Rom's and Some form of a Nic card, might be 3com's. Or Dell rebadged 3coms.

$30 for both.



Seller Email address: blacknight_709 at hotmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From nicholas.thompson1 at mchsi.com  Sun May  6 10:47:01 2007
From: nicholas.thompson1 at mchsi.com (nick thompson)
Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 15:47:01 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on USB thumbstick links
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30705040756x38182ec3p8eac6d0ca9439373@mail.gmail.com>
References: <579c6fd30705040756x38182ec3p8eac6d0ca9439373@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <463DF875.5040506@mchsi.com>

Eric Peterson wrote:
> For anyone that was at the meeting, thanks for coming! Here are some
> links to help you install Linux on a USB disk such as a thumb drive.
>
> Some that I've used
> ----------------------------------
> This one will get the same results I demoed on Wednesday...
> http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Bootable_USB_Key
>
> A good small distro for system recovery...
> http://www.sysresccd.org/Howto_install-usb-stick
>   
I use system rescue cd all the time, it's one of the *must be in my bag
of tricks* (laptop case) type cds. :) Incredible what that cd can do..

Nick

"All unix, all the time."

http://npt.ath.cx


>
>
> Some that I haven't used but look promising
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This site points to a lot of different howtos...
> http://www.pendrivelinux.com
>
> A server oriented version...
> http://www.linuxonastick.com/
>
>
> I believe it was Florin who suggested Buildroot. I didn't have a link
> but from the description he provided it sounds like it may be this
> site http://buildroot.uclibc.org/. If it isn't that site, please
> correct me.
>
>
>
> This is a list submitted by David Cargo
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> These first links deal with Live CDs, because they are related to
> flash-resident Linux.
>
> http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php
>
> http://www.livecdnews.com/
>
> http://linuxmonitor.net/blog/2007/03/top-5-linux-live-cddvds.html
>
> http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html
>
> These are links specific to "Linux on a stick."
>
> http://www.linux-live.org/
>
> http://www.linuxonastick.com/
>
> http://www.debuntu.org/how-to-install-ubuntu-linux-on-usb-bar
>
> http://www.erikveen.dds.nl/qemupuppy/index.html
>
> http://puppylinux.org/wikka/FlashPuppy
>
> http://feraga.com/
>
> http://www.networkworld.com/newsletters/linux/2006/0731linux1.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>   



From canito at dalan.us  Sun May  6 18:47:35 2007
From: canito at dalan.us (canito at dalan.us)
Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 18:47:35 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Looking for EPS12V Power Supply
Message-ID: <20070506184735.x2o2wsmy3u00gckw@mail.dalan.us>

Good Day:

I am looking for one ATX EPS12V form power supply for an older motherboard.

I need the EPS12V form to transform it to ATX GES form hopefully to  
get this old server running again.

Thank you,

David

----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.



From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sun May  6 22:25:06 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 22:25:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200705070325.l473P6n00389@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: Web Design

SeoBuilders.com incorporate effective SEO codes in our web design services together with creativity to build impressive ranking in search engines. We create, redesign and optimize websites to establish high traffic. Check out http://www.seobuilders.com about our web designing services and other offers like link building, web development and content writing. Please email us at webmaster at seobuilders.com or call us with nos. 8069876622. 

Seller Email address: ldy_therese at yahoo dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From jus at krytosvirus.com  Mon May  7 20:19:02 2007
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 20:19:02 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux friendly DSL or Cable
In-Reply-To: <20070505191213.GA1759@mail.el-swifto.com>
References: <72278d10705030511h1976504cu95c2fdf8920aaa26@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070505191213.GA1759@mail.el-swifto.com>
Message-ID: <60588.216.17.75.75.1178587142.squirrel@www.krytosvirus.com>

> On Thu, May 03, 2007 at 08:11:02AM -0400, Charlie O wrote:
>> I know this has come up before, but I tried searching the TCLUG site
>> email
>> list and can't get it to respond.
>>
>> My daughter wants to set up with a cable or DSL service that is Linux
>> friendly - I set up her new machine to dual boot Mepis 6.5 and
>> WindowsXP,
>> and she wants to make Linux the main internet environment.
>>
>> So, I am asking for suggestions for providers. I have Quest DSL and am
>> having good luck with it so I know that is an option. Are there cable
>> companies that are good to work with? Or, are there wireless providers
>> you
>> like.
>
> My ISP is Real-Time (http://real-time.com/), which also hosts the TCLUG.
> They are more than linux-friendly.  I mean, like, get a room already.
>
> Since I live in Minneapolis, I'm watching the wireless rollout with
> more than a little interest....
>

Is there such a thing as a "linux unfriendly" ISP? I generally fail to see
how the end user OS has anything to do with the ISP. As long as the ISP is
not using some proprietary connection protocol that requires a Windows
driver or something. People now a days use PPP, Ethernet, or some other
very standard protocol. If not, it is usually some CPE hardware that does
all of the last mile talk then has an Ethernet handoff.

The wireless is very exciting and hopefully more of the metro area will
participate making a huge connected network. Couple that with mobile VPNs
and I think it will make a pretty sweet network.



From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com  Mon May  7 21:07:09 2007
From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John Trammell)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 21:07:09 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux friendly DSL or Cable
In-Reply-To: <60588.216.17.75.75.1178587142.squirrel@www.krytosvirus.com>
References: <72278d10705030511h1976504cu95c2fdf8920aaa26@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070505191213.GA1759@mail.el-swifto.com>
	<60588.216.17.75.75.1178587142.squirrel@www.krytosvirus.com>
Message-ID: <20070508020709.GA23629@mail.el-swifto.com>

On Mon, May 07, 2007 at 08:19:02PM -0500, Justin Krejci wrote:
> Is there such a thing as a "linux unfriendly" ISP? I generally fail to
> see how the end user OS has anything to do with the ISP.

It has everything to do with the quality of customer service you can
expect.  I've had ISPs that would refuse to acknowledge that I had a
service problem, because I was using an "unsupported" OS.  Install
Windows, call us back then.

-- 
trammell at el-swifto.com  9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58  FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5
Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG)      Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota


From cncole at earthlink.net  Mon May  7 22:01:17 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 22:01:17 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux friendly DSL or Cable
In-Reply-To: <60588.216.17.75.75.1178587142.squirrel@www.krytosvirus.com>
Message-ID: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGIEHPCHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Justin Krejci
> >
> > Since I live in Minneapolis, I'm watching the wireless rollout with
> > more than a little interest....
> >
>

> ... People now a days use PPP, Ethernet, or
> some other
> very standard protocol. If not, it is usually some CPE
> hardware that does
> all of the last mile talk then has an Ethernet handoff.

Isn't municipal wireless using a secured protocol and/or spectrum
trick(s) that require the subscriber to have special "demod gear" to get
to an ethernet or 802.11g/b connection for any user(s)??  The subscriber
still must connect to their "modem" and do wired or wireless in the
home.

> The wireless is very exciting and hopefully more of the metro
> area will participate making a huge connected network.

Does this mean anything more than having more people pay for
higher-priced, proprietary modems in order to have their home connected
to the internet?  I doubt that there's any bandwidth ceiling advantage
over fiber-to-the-home

> Couple that with mobile VPNs
> and I think it will make a pretty sweet network.

Are you sure that mobile VPNs will be supported by municipal wireless
ISPs in the near term?  I'd expect municipal service contracts to differ
from neighboring cities, and that may be a cause for a big delay
(decades?) in having mobile options for that new service.  Cell carrier
services (plue 911 type service carriers) are already capable of
supporting municipal needs, so the justification to scrap equipment and
change to a new scheme may be hard to achieve.

Does a universal municipal wireless system make any sense for bandwidth
utilization or municipal economy?  Would such a system be rated to
operate during emergencies and handle overloads like homecoming weekends
or a big convention around neighborhood schools or whatever?  True
emergency systems must be rated to be operational during major storms
and tornadoes.  An entertainment-mostly wireless system won't be that
robust or it would be very expensive.


Chuck





From strayf at freeshell.org  Mon May  7 22:54:33 2007
From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steve Cayford)
Date: Mon, 07 May 2007 22:54:33 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux friendly DSL or Cable
In-Reply-To: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGIEHPCHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGIEHPCHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <463FF479.6080303@freeshell.org>

Chuck Cole wrote:
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
>> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Justin Krejci
>>> Since I live in Minneapolis, I'm watching the wireless rollout with
>>> more than a little interest....
>>>
> 
>> ... People now a days use PPP, Ethernet, or
>> some other
>> very standard protocol. If not, it is usually some CPE
>> hardware that does
>> all of the last mile talk then has an Ethernet handoff.
> 
> Isn't municipal wireless using a secured protocol and/or spectrum
> trick(s) that require the subscriber to have special "demod gear" to get
> to an ethernet or 802.11g/b connection for any user(s)??  The subscriber
> still must connect to their "modem" and do wired or wireless in the
> home.

Well, if you take your laptop over to the West Bank neighborhood you can
access their pilot network using a normal wifi card. I think there's
talk about secured protocols etc down the line, but the wireless modems
are supposed to just help get the signal into buildings. At least that's
what I heard in all the information sessions.

>> The wireless is very exciting and hopefully more of the metro
>> area will participate making a huge connected network.
> 
> Does this mean anything more than having more people pay for
> higher-priced, proprietary modems in order to have their home connected
> to the internet?  I doubt that there's any bandwidth ceiling advantage
> over fiber-to-the-home

It's not competing with fiber, it's competing with the cable/dsl duopoly.

>> Couple that with mobile VPNs
>> and I think it will make a pretty sweet network.
> 
> Are you sure that mobile VPNs will be supported by municipal wireless
> ISPs in the near term?  I'd expect municipal service contracts to differ
> from neighboring cities, and that may be a cause for a big delay
> (decades?) in having mobile options for that new service.  Cell carrier
> services (plue 911 type service carriers) are already capable of
> supporting municipal needs, so the justification to scrap equipment and
> change to a new scheme may be hard to achieve.
> 
> Does a universal municipal wireless system make any sense for bandwidth
> utilization or municipal economy?  Would such a system be rated to
> operate during emergencies and handle overloads like homecoming weekends
> or a big convention around neighborhood schools or whatever?  True
> emergency systems must be rated to be operational during major storms
> and tornadoes.  An entertainment-mostly wireless system won't be that
> robust or it would be very expensive.
> 

The first-responder network is supposed to run on a different set of
channels. I don't know what they're doing to ensure it stays up under
load, but I'm not sure what that has to do with the VPN issue.

Personally I think the municipal-owned option should have been
investigated further, but I'm eager to see how this turns out. And
planning to subscribe when it gets to my neighborhood.

-Steve



From cncole at earthlink.net  Mon May  7 23:32:05 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 23:32:05 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux friendly DSL or Cable
In-Reply-To: <463FF479.6080303@freeshell.org>
Message-ID: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGAEIACHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Steve Cayford
>
> Chuck Cole wrote:
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> >> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Justin Krejci
> >>> Since I live in Minneapolis, I'm watching the wireless
> rollout with
> >>> more than a little interest....
> >>>
> >
> >> ... People now a days use PPP, Ethernet, or
> >> some other
> >> very standard protocol. If not, it is usually some CPE
> >> hardware that does
> >> all of the last mile talk then has an Ethernet handoff.
> >
> > Isn't municipal wireless using a secured protocol and/or spectrum
> > trick(s) that require the subscriber to have special "demod
> gear" to get
> > to an ethernet or 802.11g/b connection for any user(s)??
> The subscriber
> > still must connect to their "modem" and do wired or wireless in the
> > home.
>
> Well, if you take your laptop over to the West Bank
> neighborhood you can
> access their pilot network using a normal wifi card. I think there's
> talk about secured protocols etc down the line, but the
> wireless modems
> are supposed to just help get the signal into buildings. At
> least that's
> what I heard in all the information sessions.

Sounds like big catastrophe (cat ass trophy) for free wireless sites
that visitors to the city or neighborhood could use.  Example: if I went
to a TCLUG meeting at the U, I could not connect to the post-pilot
municipal wireless there since I'm an out-of-town resident.  Why would a
coffee shop offer wireless if their locals used the municipal system?
The whole idea of mobility goes down the tubes real fast as I see it.

Open "g connect" is not how I heard the Chaska system and ones like it
described.  I heard that actual operational systems will not connect to
802.11g or b at all due to major incompatibilities.  I don't believe the
Chaska system and others like it do "g connects", and that is apparently
also due to their subscriber validation and spam suppression topography.

>
> >> The wireless is very exciting and hopefully more of the metro
> >> area will participate making a huge connected network.
> >
> > Does this mean anything more than having more people pay for
> > higher-priced, proprietary modems in order to have their
> home connected
> > to the internet?  I doubt that there's any bandwidth
> ceiling advantage
> > over fiber-to-the-home
>
> It's not competing with fiber, it's competing with the
> cable/dsl duopoly.

They are not different: both use already use some fiber media, and plan
to get fiber to the house.


> >> Couple that with mobile VPNs
> >> and I think it will make a pretty sweet network.
> >
> > Are you sure that mobile VPNs will be supported by
> municipal wireless
> > ISPs in the near term?  I'd expect municipal service
> contracts to differ
> > from neighboring cities, and that may be a cause for a big delay
> > (decades?) in having mobile options for that new service.
> Cell carrier
> > services (plue 911 type service carriers) are already capable of
> > supporting municipal needs, so the justification to scrap
> equipment and
> > change to a new scheme may be hard to achieve.
> >
> > Does a universal municipal wireless system make any sense
> for bandwidth
> > utilization or municipal economy?  Would such a system be rated to
> > operate during emergencies and handle overloads like
> homecoming weekends
> > or a big convention around neighborhood schools or whatever?  True
> > emergency systems must be rated to be operational during
> major storms
> > and tornadoes.  An entertainment-mostly wireless system
> won't be that
> > robust or it would be very expensive.
> >
>
> The first-responder network is supposed to run on a different set of
> channels.

Channels being different is only a small part of the installation issue:
physical distribution and physical antennas are what really count. The
entertainment wireless probably cannot do the emergency job during
sustained storm conditions, etc, unless it is built to do that job and
loaf on "nice days".  Point is that municipalities are unlikely to see
an entertainment ISP as any help or amortization for critical
communications assets.


> I don't know what they're doing to ensure it stays up under
> load, but I'm not sure what that has to do with the VPN issue.

Simple: can the entertainment wireless do municipal duties like cops,
hospitals, ambulances, and fire fighters that need mobility?  Probably
not at all, so the municipal wireless is essentially limited to clear
day entertainment purposes, and that justification basis.


> Personally I think the municipal-owned option should have been
> investigated further, but I'm eager to see how this turns out. And
> planning to subscribe when it gets to my neighborhood.

I'll compare the options.  I can only get Frontier DSL or Charter cable
now... maybe a satellite ISP also.  Frontier doesn't allow alternate DSL
ISPs (might now, but I doubt it).

Sounds like the present descriptions are mostly marketing BS to sell
initial installations.  If the economics of free hotspots are impacted
adversely as I think they are, I'm against the municipal systems.


Chuck






From josh at tcbug.org  Tue May  8 00:47:25 2007
From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 00:47:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux friendly DSL or Cable
In-Reply-To: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGAEIACHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <463FF479.6080303@freeshell.org>
	<JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGAEIACHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20070508054725.GL59486@tcbug.org>

Chuck Cole wrote:
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Steve Cayford
> >
> > Chuck Cole wrote:
> > >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> > >> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Justin Krejci
> > >>> Since I live in Minneapolis, I'm watching the wireless
> > rollout with
> > >>> more than a little interest....
> > >>>
> > >
> > >> ... People now a days use PPP, Ethernet, or
> > >> some other
> > >> very standard protocol. If not, it is usually some CPE
> > >> hardware that does
> > >> all of the last mile talk then has an Ethernet handoff.
> > >
> > > Isn't municipal wireless using a secured protocol and/or spectrum
> > > trick(s) that require the subscriber to have special "demod
> > gear" to get
> > > to an ethernet or 802.11g/b connection for any user(s)??
> > The subscriber
> > > still must connect to their "modem" and do wired or wireless in the
> > > home.
> >
> > Well, if you take your laptop over to the West Bank
> > neighborhood you can
> > access their pilot network using a normal wifi card. I think there's
> > talk about secured protocols etc down the line, but the
> > wireless modems
> > are supposed to just help get the signal into buildings. At
> > least that's
> > what I heard in all the information sessions.
> 
> Sounds like big catastrophe (cat ass trophy) for free wireless sites
> that visitors to the city or neighborhood could use.  Example: if I went
> to a TCLUG meeting at the U, I could not connect to the post-pilot
> municipal wireless there since I'm an out-of-town resident.  Why would a
> coffee shop offer wireless if their locals used the municipal system?
> The whole idea of mobility goes down the tubes real fast as I see it.
> 
> Open "g connect" is not how I heard the Chaska system and ones like it
> described.  I heard that actual operational systems will not connect to
> 802.11g or b at all due to major incompatibilities.  I don't believe the
> Chaska system and others like it do "g connects", and that is apparently
> also due to their subscriber validation and spam suppression topography.
> 
> >
> > >> The wireless is very exciting and hopefully more of the metro
> > >> area will participate making a huge connected network.
> > >
> > > Does this mean anything more than having more people pay for
> > > higher-priced, proprietary modems in order to have their
> > home connected
> > > to the internet?  I doubt that there's any bandwidth
> > ceiling advantage
> > > over fiber-to-the-home
> >
> > It's not competing with fiber, it's competing with the
> > cable/dsl duopoly.
> 
> They are not different: both use already use some fiber media, and plan
> to get fiber to the house.
> 
> 
> > >> Couple that with mobile VPNs
> > >> and I think it will make a pretty sweet network.
> > >
> > > Are you sure that mobile VPNs will be supported by
> > municipal wireless
> > > ISPs in the near term?  I'd expect municipal service
> > contracts to differ
> > > from neighboring cities, and that may be a cause for a big delay
> > > (decades?) in having mobile options for that new service.
> > Cell carrier
> > > services (plue 911 type service carriers) are already capable of
> > > supporting municipal needs, so the justification to scrap
> > equipment and
> > > change to a new scheme may be hard to achieve.
> > >
> > > Does a universal municipal wireless system make any sense
> > for bandwidth
> > > utilization or municipal economy?  Would such a system be rated to
> > > operate during emergencies and handle overloads like
> > homecoming weekends
> > > or a big convention around neighborhood schools or whatever?  True
> > > emergency systems must be rated to be operational during
> > major storms
> > > and tornadoes.  An entertainment-mostly wireless system
> > won't be that
> > > robust or it would be very expensive.
> > >
> >
> > The first-responder network is supposed to run on a different set of
> > channels.
> 
> Channels being different is only a small part of the installation issue:
> physical distribution and physical antennas are what really count. The
> entertainment wireless probably cannot do the emergency job during
> sustained storm conditions, etc, unless it is built to do that job and
> loaf on "nice days".  Point is that municipalities are unlikely to see
> an entertainment ISP as any help or amortization for critical
> communications assets.
> 
> 
> > I don't know what they're doing to ensure it stays up under
> > load, but I'm not sure what that has to do with the VPN issue.
> 
> Simple: can the entertainment wireless do municipal duties like cops,
> hospitals, ambulances, and fire fighters that need mobility?  Probably
> not at all, so the municipal wireless is essentially limited to clear
> day entertainment purposes, and that justification basis.
> 
> 
> > Personally I think the municipal-owned option should have been
> > investigated further, but I'm eager to see how this turns out. And
> > planning to subscribe when it gets to my neighborhood.
> 
> I'll compare the options.  I can only get Frontier DSL or Charter cable
> now... maybe a satellite ISP also.  Frontier doesn't allow alternate DSL
> ISPs (might now, but I doubt it).
> 
> Sounds like the present descriptions are mostly marketing BS to sell
> initial installations.  If the economics of free hotspots are impacted
> adversely as I think they are, I'm against the municipal systems.
> 
> 
> Chuck

And if you think fiber isn't proprietary you ought to take a look at
what companies like Verizon are doing with FIOS...including their
company policy of pulling out the copper to your house after
installing FIOS, of not allowing you to roll back service to copper,
and oh fiber isn't covered by the same laws as copper, they are under
no compulsion to allow anyone else to provide you service.

There are no panaceas.

-- 
Thanks,

Josh Paetzel


From cncole at earthlink.net  Tue May  8 01:46:02 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 01:46:02 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux friendly DSL or Cable
In-Reply-To: <20070508054725.GL59486@tcbug.org>
Message-ID: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCAEMAJPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Josh Paetzel [mailto:josh at tcbug.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 12:47 AM
>
> And if you think fiber isn't proprietary you ought to take a look at
> what companies like Verizon are doing with FIOS...including their
> company policy of pulling out the copper to your house after
> installing FIOS, of not allowing you to roll back service to copper,
> and oh fiber isn't covered by the same laws as copper, they are under
> no compulsion to allow anyone else to provide you service.
>
> There are no panaceas.

???  Your comment is a non-sequitur, and I said nothing at all about
panaceas or absence of proprietary differences.  I only said that
different carriers use fibers, not that all security layers were
identical.  My comment about both phone companies and cable companies
using fiber, and planning to-the-house fiber connections is like saying
"most TCLUGers can drive cars".  You previously stated that cable
service and DSL service would not use fiber media, and that seemed kinda
naive to me.

Your comment is technically off-base.  The fiber media is standard
(though there are several types, like several types of coax).  The
carrier and modulation schemes in the fibers are probably standard as
well (different standards most likely), just like T1, etc, of the phone
system no matter what media it is transported in.  At some point the
protocols and encryptions would become proprietary but can be
media-independent.

This digression had little significance for the municipal wireless
issues, and you made no comment for my concern on the likely impact of
municipal wireless on free hotspots.  I think the municipal wireless
will require geographicly specific subscriptions like Chaska does, and
that would become a severe restriction to individual roaming freedom.
If that is the case, then I think municipal wireless is a very, very bad
thing.

Chuck





From cncole at earthlink.net  Tue May  8 02:45:05 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 02:45:05 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux friendly DSL or Cable
In-Reply-To: <20070508072201.GN59486@tcbug.org>
Message-ID: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCOEMBJPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Josh Paetzel [mailto:josh at tcbug.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 2:22 AM
>
> Chuck Cole wrote:
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Josh Paetzel [mailto:josh at tcbug.org]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 12:47 AM
> > >
> > > And if you think fiber isn't proprietary you ought to
> take a look at
> > > what companies like Verizon are doing with FIOS...including their
> > > company policy of pulling out the copper to your house after
> > > installing FIOS, of not allowing you to roll back service
> to copper,
> > > and oh fiber isn't covered by the same laws as copper,
> they are under
> > > no compulsion to allow anyone else to provide you service.
> > >
> > > There are no panaceas.
> >
> > ???  Your comment is a non-sequitur, and I said nothing at all about
> > panaceas or absence of proprietary differences.  I only said that
> > different carriers use fibers, not that all security layers were
> > identical.  My comment about both phone companies and cable
> companies
> > using fiber, and planning to-the-house fiber connections is
> like saying
> > "most TCLUGers can drive cars".  You previously stated that cable
> > service and DSL service would not use fiber media, and that
> seemed kinda
> > naive to me.
> >
>
> When did I say that?  This is my first post to the thread.



You said that in your text that I quoted in your previous post.
That was your second post that you call your first.


> While fiber media is standard, and there are several different types,
> the laws that cover providing service over it are different than the
> laws that cover providing service over copper phone lines.  The
> regulation that comes along with CLEG is what allows you the freedom
> to choose your DSL provider over your copper phone lines.  Fiber isn't
> covered by that, and in fact verizon is going so far as to rip up the
> copper to people's homes when they install FIOS and refusing to
> reinstall it.  Once that's happened you are completely and totally in
> bed with them, they are not legally obligated in any way to allow
> anyone else to provide service to you over the fiber drop to your
> house.

Interesting point, but that's not different from what many of the
wire-to-home cases are.  Apple Valley areas covered by Frontier can't
get a different DSL on that wire, only Frontier's, but they bundle a few
others as ISP options now.  Maybe there's a legal way to prevent having
the copper removed if that in fact provides options not available via
fiber.  Not clear this is a big deal or a new situation in practical
terms.

> > This digression had little significance for the municipal wireless
> > issues, and you made no comment for my concern on the
> likely impact of
> > municipal wireless on free hotspots.  I think the municipal wireless
> > will require geographicly specific subscriptions like
> Chaska does, and
> > that would become a severe restriction to individual
> roaming freedom.
> > If that is the case, then I think municipal wireless is a
> very, very bad
> > thing.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
>
> You might want to consider my reply wasn't specifically targetted at
> you...there are other people participating in the thread as well.

If you aren't responding to me and what I said, don't show my name and
continue as if you are responding to me.  Make your own independent
comments and thread.  Nobody else has participated since you jumped in.

Let's let your media-to-the-house concerns go into another thread (or
die here) and look for any further comments on wireless to continue.
I'm concerned that municipal wireless may be a very bad thing because of
its impact on free WiFi spots and areas.


Chuck


Chuck




From jima at beer.tclug.org  Tue May  8 06:04:19 2007
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 06:04:19 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux friendly DSL or Cable
In-Reply-To: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGAEIACHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGAEIACHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0705080603190.7527@beer.tclug.org>

On Mon, 7 May 2007, Chuck Cole wrote:
> I'll compare the options.  I can only get Frontier DSL or Charter cable
> now... maybe a satellite ISP also.  Frontier doesn't allow alternate DSL
> ISPs (might now, but I doubt it).

  This may be seen as news to those on the list with Frontier DSL 
terminated by VISI.

      Jima


From jima at beer.tclug.org  Tue May  8 06:08:38 2007
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 06:08:38 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux friendly DSL or Cable
In-Reply-To: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGIEHPCHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGIEHPCHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0705080604340.7527@beer.tclug.org>

On Mon, 7 May 2007, Chuck Cole wrote:
> Does this mean anything more than having more people pay for
> higher-priced, proprietary modems in order to have their home connected
> to the internet?  I doubt that there's any bandwidth ceiling advantage
> over fiber-to-the-home

  Who's offering FTTH in the Twin Cities?  If "no one," how does a 
bandwidth ceiling advantage/disadvantage matter?

      Jima


From cncole at earthlink.net  Tue May  8 06:23:05 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 06:23:05 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux friendly DSL or Cable
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0705080603190.7527@beer.tclug.org>
Message-ID: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCMEMFJPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jima [mailto:jima at beer.tclug.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 6:04 AM
> To: Chuck Cole
>
> On Mon, 7 May 2007, Chuck Cole wrote:
> > I'll compare the options.  I can only get Frontier DSL or
> Charter cable
> > now... maybe a satellite ISP also.  Frontier doesn't allow
> alternate DSL
> > ISPs (might now, but I doubt it).
>
>   This may be seen as news to those on the list with Frontier DSL
> terminated by VISI.
>
>       Jima
>

Frontier doesn't allow that in *my* area as I stated.  Services in
different areas seem dependent upon which previous phone company
installed the equipment before Frontier bought them out.  Comparing
options referred to the possible availability of new options here
someday.




From cncole at earthlink.net  Tue May  8 06:25:19 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 06:25:19 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux friendly DSL or Cable
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0705080604340.7527@beer.tclug.org>
Message-ID: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCOEMFJPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jima [mailto:jima at beer.tclug.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 6:09 AM
> To: Chuck Cole
> Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Linux friendly DSL or Cable
>
>
> On Mon, 7 May 2007, Chuck Cole wrote:
> > Does this mean anything more than having more people pay for
> > higher-priced, proprietary modems in order to have their
> home connected
> > to the internet?  I doubt that there's any bandwidth
> ceiling advantage
> > over fiber-to-the-home
>
>   Who's offering FTTH in the Twin Cities?  If "no one," how does a
> bandwidth ceiling advantage/disadvantage matter?
>
>       Jima

Significant quantities of equipment has been purchased from local fab
shops.  Dunno what is installed or where.

We weren't discussing mature, readily available, installed options.  The
discussion was about next options like municipal wireless, et al.


Chuck


>




From sraun at fireopal.org  Tue May  8 07:16:56 2007
From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 07:16:56 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux friendly DSL or Cable
In-Reply-To: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGAEIACHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <463FF479.6080303@freeshell.org>
	<JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGAEIACHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20070508121656.GA29812@fireopal.org>

On Mon, May 07, 2007 at 11:32:05PM -0500, Chuck Cole wrote:
> > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Steve Cayford
> > The first-responder network is supposed to run on a different set of
> > channels.
> 
> Channels being different is only a small part of the installation issue:
> physical distribution and physical antennas are what really count. The
> entertainment wireless probably cannot do the emergency job during
> sustained storm conditions, etc, unless it is built to do that job and
> loaf on "nice days".  Point is that municipalities are unlikely to see
> an entertainment ISP as any help or amortization for critical
> communications assets.

<snip>

> Sounds like the present descriptions are mostly marketing BS to sell
> initial installations.  If the economics of free hotspots are impacted
> adversely as I think they are, I'm against the municipal systems.

The contract that the City of Minneapolis issued to US Internet calls
for the city to be paying US Internet some amount of money in return
for a network that the city can run all their emergency services on.
If the network US Internet provides cannot meet that spec reliably,
SOMEONE is going to be big trouble.

-- 
Scott Raun
sraun at fireopal.org


From josh at tcbug.org  Tue May  8 08:40:11 2007
From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 08:40:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux friendly DSL or Cable
In-Reply-To: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCOEMBJPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <20070508072201.GN59486@tcbug.org>
	<DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCOEMBJPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20070508134011.GO59486@tcbug.org>

> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Josh Paetzel [mailto:josh at tcbug.org]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 12:47 AM
> > > >
> > > > And if you think fiber isn't proprietary you ought to
> > take a look at
> > > > what companies like Verizon are doing with FIOS...including their
> > > > company policy of pulling out the copper to your house after
> > > > installing FIOS, of not allowing you to roll back service
> > to copper,
> > > > and oh fiber isn't covered by the same laws as copper,
> > they are under
> > > > no compulsion to allow anyone else to provide you service.
> > > >
> > > > There are no panaceas.
> > >
> > > ???  Your comment is a non-sequitur, and I said nothing at all about
> > > panaceas or absence of proprietary differences.  I only said that
> > > different carriers use fibers, not that all security layers were
> > > identical.  My comment about both phone companies and cable
> > companies
> > > using fiber, and planning to-the-house fiber connections is
> > like saying
> > > "most TCLUGers can drive cars".  You previously stated that cable
> > > service and DSL service would not use fiber media, and that
> > seemed kinda
> > > naive to me.
> > >
> >
> > When did I say that?  This is my first post to the thread.
> 
> 
> 
> You said that in your text that I quoted in your previous post.
> That was your second post that you call your first.
> 
> 

You're highly confused...that was my first post to the list on this
thread.  I've never said in this thread or any other thread at all
that cable service and DSL service would not use fiber media.  I think
you need to go back over the thread and look at who actually said what
before you attribute things to people.

I'm also a tad perplexed as to why your response to a private email
from me to you ended up on the list and not even cc'd to me.

-- 
Thanks,

Josh Paetzel


From obelin23 at gmail.com  Tue May  8 09:39:08 2007
From: obelin23 at gmail.com (Charlie O)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 10:39:08 -0400
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux friendly DSL or Cable
Message-ID: <72278d10705080739v33d1f859n6b864231a8dd52ea@mail.gmail.com>

First of all, thank you all for your responses and feedback.

I should clarify a bit here.  What I am most concerned with, is the internet
connection piece, rather than the ISP piece.

For myself, I am running Quest DSL with the external router they lease, and
have IPHouse as my ISP - I had been on Goldengate before that merged with
IPHouse. IPHouse is great, and I have also had a very good experience with
Quest. Quest has been very stable, and they have dealt with problems
promptly and well. IPHouse has been completely problem free.

So I know DSL is an option, and apparently Cable connections can be used
with Linux also. I know a lot of internet connection offers bundle in the
ISP and the Windows software as part of the package, so I was asking about
connection options where you don't need to take the Windows part of the
package, and have hardware that Linux can talk to.

For now I am suggesting my daughter consider DSL with IPHouse as preferred
option.

Thanks,

Charlie
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From cncole at earthlink.net  Tue May  8 10:36:59 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 10:36:59 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux friendly DSL or Cable
In-Reply-To: <20070508134011.GO59486@tcbug.org>
Message-ID: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCOEMPJPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Josh Paetzel [mailto:josh at tcbug.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 8:40 AM
> To: Chuck Cole
> Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Linux friendly DSL or Cable
>
>
>
> I'm also a tad perplexed as to why your response to a private email
> from me to you ended up on the list and not even cc'd to me.
>
> --
> Thanks,
>
> Josh Paetzel

Simple: this is a list discussion.  Private contact wasn't invited or
appropriate.


Chuck





From cncole at earthlink.net  Tue May  8 11:13:50 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 11:13:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux friendly DSL or Cable
In-Reply-To: <20070508121656.GA29812@fireopal.org>
Message-ID: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGOEICCHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Scott Raun
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 7:17 AM
>
> On Mon, May 07, 2007 at 11:32:05PM -0500, Chuck Cole wrote:
> > > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Steve Cayford
> > > The first-responder network is supposed to run on a
> different set of
> > > channels.
> >
> > Channels being different is only a small part of the
> installation issue:
> > physical distribution and physical antennas are what really
> count. The
> > entertainment wireless probably cannot do the emergency job during
> > sustained storm conditions, etc, unless it is built to do
> that job and
> > loaf on "nice days".  Point is that municipalities are
> unlikely to see
> > an entertainment ISP as any help or amortization for critical
> > communications assets.
>
> <snip>
>
> > Sounds like the present descriptions are mostly marketing BS to sell
> > initial installations.  If the economics of free hotspots
> are impacted
> > adversely as I think they are, I'm against the municipal systems.
>
> The contract that the City of Minneapolis issued to US Internet calls
> for the city to be paying US Internet some amount of money in return
> for a network that the city can run all their emergency services on.
> If the network US Internet provides cannot meet that spec reliably,
> SOMEONE is going to be big trouble.
>
> --
> Scott Raun
> sraun at fireopal.org


Is that very same network and each of its antennas supposed to provide
free or subscriber public access?  Is this an 802.11g (unlikely)?
Existence of this contract may be true and irrelevant.  Sorry if I
missed the clarification of this here recently.

Chuck




From josh at tcbug.org  Tue May  8 13:01:52 2007
From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 13:01:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux friendly DSL or Cable
In-Reply-To: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCOEMPJPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <20070508134011.GO59486@tcbug.org>
	<DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCOEMPJPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20070508180152.GR59486@tcbug.org>

Chuck Cole wrote:
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Josh Paetzel [mailto:josh at tcbug.org]
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 8:40 AM
> > To: Chuck Cole
> > Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Linux friendly DSL or Cable
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm also a tad perplexed as to why your response to a private email
> > from me to you ended up on the list and not even cc'd to me.
> >
> > --
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Josh Paetzel
> 
> Simple: this is a list discussion.  Private contact wasn't invited or
> appropriate.
> 
> 
> Chuck
> 

You've included people's direct email addresses in the To: headers on
nearly every email you've sent to the list in this thread, except when
I contacted you off list to clear up your mistakes about what I had or
hadn't previously said...then you move it strictly on-list and claim
that off-list contact is not appropriate.

In case your mail client threading or filtering is really bad and
getting you confused take a look at
http://archives.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/2007-May/thread.html

Take a look at your reply to my post, where you claim that I've said
something I didn't say, then further along where you claim my first
post to the thread is really my second.  You've completely confused me
with someone else, which is understandable if your mail client doesn't
handle message threading and/or mailing lists well, but to drag
pointing that out back on-list is sort of childish, as is claiming
off-list contact isn't appropriate when you're mailing people directly
with every post you make yourself.

But since you insist on it being on-list, how about an on-list, 'yeah,
you never said that.' ??

-- 
Thanks,

Josh Paetzel


From marc at e-skinner.net  Tue May  8 14:15:22 2007
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 14:15:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux friendly DSL or Cable
In-Reply-To: <20070508180152.GR59486@tcbug.org>
References: <20070508134011.GO59486@tcbug.org>	<DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCOEMPJPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<20070508180152.GR59486@tcbug.org>
Message-ID: <4640CC4A.3010707@e-skinner.net>

lets move on :)


From marc at e-skinner.net  Wed May  9 07:57:01 2007
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 07:57:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] web cams and linux
Message-ID: <4641C51D.9010808@e-skinner.net>

just picked up a logitech fusion 1.3m pixel from compusa for %40 off the 
other day.  anybody out there been using webcams with linux?  anyone 
want to suggest their favorite webcam application?  has anyone had any 
luck with this particular webcam?

thanks!




From tclug at lizakowski.com  Wed May  9 09:06:26 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 09:06:26 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] web cams and linux
In-Reply-To: <4641C51D.9010808@e-skinner.net>
References: <4641C51D.9010808@e-skinner.net>
Message-ID: <200705090906.27194.tclug@lizakowski.com>


There's a new standard for webcams called UVC.  It's a generic protocol across 
USB, and hopefully will allow the OS to use one driver for most webcams 
(which is great for Linux, since Mfrs usually don't give us drivers).  Some 
of the newer webcams use this protocol.  

http://linux-uvc.berlios.de/

Jeremy

> just picked up a logitech fusion 1.3m pixel from compusa for %40 off the
> other day.  anybody out there been using webcams with linux?  anyone
> want to suggest their favorite webcam application?  has anyone had any
> luck with this particular webcam?
>
> thanks!
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com  Wed May  9 10:21:36 2007
From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (Kelly Black)
Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 10:21:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] web cams and linux
In-Reply-To: <4641C51D.9010808@e-skinner.net>
References: <4641C51D.9010808@e-skinner.net>
Message-ID: <20070509152136.GA11267@localhost.localdomain>

On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 07:57:01AM -0500, Marc Skinner wrote:
> just picked up a logitech fusion 1.3m pixel from compusa for %40 off the 
> other day.  anybody out there been using webcams with linux?  anyone 
> want to suggest their favorite webcam application?  has anyone had any 
> luck with this particular webcam?
> 
> thanks!

My favorite webcam app would have to be hasciicam! :
http://ascii.dyne.org/

Kelly
KB0GBJ


From rclark at lakesplus.com  Wed May  9 10:41:11 2007
From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean)
Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 10:41:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] consulting rates?
In-Reply-To: <4639B42C.A690.0025.0@ci.bloomington.mn.us>
References: <694fa1450704031848w75bfde39mab703be4bde2f0b7@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070404145809.70927.qmail@web53811.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4639B42C.A690.0025.0@ci.bloomington.mn.us>
Message-ID: <1178725271.8935.2.camel@localhost.localdomain>


If you work on projects 50% of the time you will be doing good as a
consultant ... if you are doing job shop type work (warm body for hire)
that is different as you end up with long term jobs that way and are not
really consulting ... 

In general ... assuming 40-50% billable time is reasonable - once you
get up and going.  They also say to have 6 months salary sitting in the
bank if you are to start on your own as the startup time can be lean.

Just my thoughts ... as someone who has been an independent consultant
and works for a firm that does strictly consulting everyday.

Randy

On Thu, 2007-05-03 at 10:06 -0500, Steven White wrote:
> I don't do consulting but I wondered once how much I would have to
> charge if I did.
>  
> I went to my employer's HR department and asked them for everything
> they contributed for me to various places.  That included FICA,
> Medicare, pension, life insurance, long-term disability, their share
> of medical insurance, dental insurance, etc..  I added that to my
> salary to come up with the amount of money I would have to get to have
> the same income I have as an employee (because I would have to pay my
> own FICA, life insurance, long-term disability, etc.).
>  
> Then I tried to figure out how many days in a year I would actually
> work.  The 52 weeks times five days per week has to have subtracted
> from it holidays, vacations, and maybe a little sick leave.
>  
> Then I took the advice of the consulting books to realize that I would
> not work eight hours every day.  In fact, considering overhead,
> travel, education, and so on, I might average only six hours of time
> each day that I could in good conscience bill for.
>  
> Finally, I divided dollars by hours to get an hourly figure.  I think
> that at the time is was around $52.
>  
> Steven White
> City of Bloomington
> 1800 W Old Shakopee Rd
> Bloomington MN 55431-3096
> USA
> 952-563-4882 (voice)
> 952-563-4672 (fax)
> steven.white at ci.bloomington.mn.us
> 
> >>> Wayne Johnson <wdtj at yahoo.com> 4/4/2007 9:58 AM >>>
> What I did was take what I was making as a full time developer, add in
> 7.5% for the self employment taxes, Another 6% for vacation/sick and
> then a fixed monthly charge for insurance, etc if you need to.  Then
> split this all up to an hourly charge.
> 
> Remember that there is always down time between contracts, so short
> term contracts need to charge more for the between the gaps overhead.
> 
> I was charging $72/hr for short term and $60 long term YMMV.
> 
> At one point I was working for a contract house (at $30/hr + benefits)
> and I later found out the contract house was charging the client
> $75/hr.  They were making a VERY nice profit on my labor.
> 
> Dave Dash <dave.dash at gmail.com> wrote:
>         I've seen people charge anywhere from $25-100/hr for various
>         computer related consulting.  Unfortunately nobody likes to
>         share how much they charge as it tends to be a not for public
>         consumption.  
>         
>         If I weren't already doing some consulting (albeit on the
>         side), I'd pick a number between $25-100 that is more than
>         what I'd be making at a similar full time or even contract gig
>         (and you can call recruiters to find those out).  Then just
>         keep to that.  But really the rate doesn't matter so much as
>         the quality of service.... of course, I'm not the small
>         business owner cutting you the check, so what do I know. 
>         
>         -d
>         
>         On 4/3/07, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote: 
>                 Guys,
>                 
>                 What are some good resources on consulting rates?  I'm
>                 talking to a
>                 small business owner about Linux support and
>                 consulting for their shop.
>                 Mainly remote troubleshooting, with bulk work during
>                 weekends, if 
>                 need be.
>                 
>                 Thanks,
>                 florin
>                 
>                 --
>                 Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
>                       http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
>                 
>                 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- 
>                 Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
>                 
>                 iD8DBQFGEuYSND0rFCN2b1sRAplnAJ9bMKpb2z3sPN3Fw9e24I3MtIDvjgCfRyRK
>                 9x3n3Dw3htIu2xdcEH0QFKc=
>                 =qWUK
>                 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>                 
>                 _______________________________________________ 
>                 TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>                 tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>                 http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
>                 
>         
>         
>         
>         -- 
>         Dave Dash
>         612.670.0621
>         Discover your favorite restaurant: reviewsby.us
>         gtalk: dave.dash
>         _______________________________________________
>         TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> 
> --- 
> Wayne Johnson,             | There are two kinds of people: Those 
> 3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
> Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
> (612) 522-7003             | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________
> 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
> with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From rclark at lakesplus.com  Wed May  9 11:13:49 2007
From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean)
Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 11:13:49 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Alternative to rdesktop?
Message-ID: <1178727229.8935.5.camel@localhost.localdomain>


Does anyone use something out there other than rdesktop for terminal
server connections?  I seem to have some issues at times with odd
behavior and was curious if anyone used something else.

thanks in advance.

Randy




From jeruvin at gmail.com  Wed May  9 11:29:28 2007
From: jeruvin at gmail.com (jason reynolds)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 11:29:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Alternative to rdesktop?
In-Reply-To: <1178727229.8935.5.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1178727229.8935.5.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <6eb23c4e0705090929v5e431f1bw4456018e106d697b@mail.gmail.com>

I was having problems with using rdesktop that wasn't the newest 1.5  I'm
curious to hear if you are using an older version?

Jason

On 5/9/07, Randy Clarksean <rclark at lakesplus.com> wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone use something out there other than rdesktop for terminal
> server connections?  I seem to have some issues at times with odd
> behavior and was curious if anyone used something else.
>
> thanks in advance.
>
> Randy
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From rclark at lakesplus.com  Wed May  9 12:22:40 2007
From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean)
Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 12:22:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Alternative to rdesktop?
In-Reply-To: <6eb23c4e0705090929v5e431f1bw4456018e106d697b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1178727229.8935.5.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<6eb23c4e0705090929v5e431f1bw4456018e106d697b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1178731360.8935.9.camel@localhost.localdomain>


1.4.1 ... I tried yum update - but it said "Could not find update match
for rdesktop"

it is for FC5.

randy


On Wed, 2007-05-09 at 11:29 -0500, jason reynolds wrote:
> I was having problems with using rdesktop that wasn't the newest 1.5
> I'm curious to hear if you are using an older version?
> 
> Jason
> 
> On 5/9/07, Randy Clarksean <rclark at lakesplus.com> wrote:
>         
>         Does anyone use something out there other than rdesktop for
>         terminal
>         server connections?  I seem to have some issues at times with
>         odd
>         behavior and was curious if anyone used something else.
>         
>         thanks in advance. 
>         
>         Randy
>         
>         
>         
>         _______________________________________________
>         TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 



From jima at beer.tclug.org  Wed May  9 12:33:35 2007
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 12:33:35 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Alternative to rdesktop?
In-Reply-To: <1178731360.8935.9.camel@localhost.localdomain>
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	<6eb23c4e0705090929v5e431f1bw4456018e106d697b@mail.gmail.com>
	<1178731360.8935.9.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0705091227070.7527@beer.tclug.org>

On Wed, 9 May 2007, Randy Clarksean wrote:
> 1.4.1 ... I tried yum update - but it said "Could not find update match
> for rdesktop"
>
> it is for FC5.

  It might be worth noting that FC5 is going EOL in about two months. 
Additionally, FC6 does have rdesktop-1.5.0 in updates.  Fedora 7 will also 
have 1.5.0 when it ships, err, later this month, I guess.
  FWIW... :-)

      Jima


From jeruvin at gmail.com  Wed May  9 13:24:00 2007
From: jeruvin at gmail.com (jason reynolds)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 13:24:00 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] consulting rates?
In-Reply-To: <1178725271.8935.2.camel@localhost.localdomain>
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	<20070404145809.70927.qmail@web53811.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4639B42C.A690.0025.0@ci.bloomington.mn.us>
	<1178725271.8935.2.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <6eb23c4e0705091124o30205894u139baf58ae0ae035@mail.gmail.com>

Having six months of expenses saved up to be a most excellent idea. Even if
you have a steady job it's peace of mind that helps you sleep at night.

jason

On 5/9/07, Randy Clarksean <rclark at lakesplus.com> wrote:
>
>
> If you work on projects 50% of the time you will be doing good as a
> consultant ... if you are doing job shop type work (warm body for hire)
> that is different as you end up with long term jobs that way and are not
> really consulting ...
>
> In general ... assuming 40-50% billable time is reasonable - once you
> get up and going.  They also say to have 6 months salary sitting in the
> bank if you are to start on your own as the startup time can be lean.
>
> Just my thoughts ... as someone who has been an independent consultant
> and works for a firm that does strictly consulting everyday.
>
> Randy
>
> On Thu, 2007-05-03 at 10:06 -0500, Steven White wrote:
> > I don't do consulting but I wondered once how much I would have to
> > charge if I did.
> >
> > I went to my employer's HR department and asked them for everything
> > they contributed for me to various places.  That included FICA,
> > Medicare, pension, life insurance, long-term disability, their share
> > of medical insurance, dental insurance, etc..  I added that to my
> > salary to come up with the amount of money I would have to get to have
> > the same income I have as an employee (because I would have to pay my
> > own FICA, life insurance, long-term disability, etc.).
> >
> > Then I tried to figure out how many days in a year I would actually
> > work.  The 52 weeks times five days per week has to have subtracted
> > from it holidays, vacations, and maybe a little sick leave.
> >
> > Then I took the advice of the consulting books to realize that I would
> > not work eight hours every day.  In fact, considering overhead,
> > travel, education, and so on, I might average only six hours of time
> > each day that I could in good conscience bill for.
> >
> > Finally, I divided dollars by hours to get an hourly figure.  I think
> > that at the time is was around $52.
> >
> > Steven White
> > City of Bloomington
> > 1800 W Old Shakopee Rd
> > Bloomington MN 55431-3096
> > USA
> > 952-563-4882 (voice)
> > 952-563-4672 (fax)
> > steven.white at ci.bloomington.mn.us
> >
> > >>> Wayne Johnson <wdtj at yahoo.com> 4/4/2007 9:58 AM >>>
> > What I did was take what I was making as a full time developer, add in
> > 7.5% for the self employment taxes, Another 6% for vacation/sick and
> > then a fixed monthly charge for insurance, etc if you need to.  Then
> > split this all up to an hourly charge.
> >
> > Remember that there is always down time between contracts, so short
> > term contracts need to charge more for the between the gaps overhead.
> >
> > I was charging $72/hr for short term and $60 long term YMMV.
> >
> > At one point I was working for a contract house (at $30/hr + benefits)
> > and I later found out the contract house was charging the client
> > $75/hr.  They were making a VERY nice profit on my labor.
> >
> > Dave Dash <dave.dash at gmail.com> wrote:
> >         I've seen people charge anywhere from $25-100/hr for various
> >         computer related consulting.  Unfortunately nobody likes to
> >         share how much they charge as it tends to be a not for public
> >         consumption.
> >
> >         If I weren't already doing some consulting (albeit on the
> >         side), I'd pick a number between $25-100 that is more than
> >         what I'd be making at a similar full time or even contract gig
> >         (and you can call recruiters to find those out).  Then just
> >         keep to that.  But really the rate doesn't matter so much as
> >         the quality of service.... of course, I'm not the small
> >         business owner cutting you the check, so what do I know.
> >
> >         -d
> >
> >         On 4/3/07, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:
> >                 Guys,
> >
> >                 What are some good resources on consulting rates?  I'm
> >                 talking to a
> >                 small business owner about Linux support and
> >                 consulting for their shop.
> >                 Mainly remote troubleshooting, with bulk work during
> >                 weekends, if
> >                 need be.
> >
> >                 Thanks,
> >                 florin
> >
> >                 --
> >                 Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
> >                       http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
> >
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