From ankush at ensim.com  Wed Apr 25 11:02:39 2007
From: ankush at ensim.com (Ankush)
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:19:51 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Help Required on %post
Message-ID: <000c01c78753$2e94fda0$0119430a@india.ensim.com>

Hi,
I am trying to install an RPM in the %post script of a spec file. But on doing so it gives me an "exclusive lock on database" error. If you have come across this problem before please send me a mail at your latest.
Also if you have any idea of how to "rpm -ivh --nodeps <rpm file>" without installing the rpm, but from the build itself, please let me know.
Thanks in advance,
Ankush
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From bob.hartmann at gmail.com  Sun Apr  1 10:28:35 2007
From: bob.hartmann at gmail.com (Bob Hartmann)
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 10:28:35 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] ntp and CST
In-Reply-To: <67f3084a0703290442i3fee3fa7ne5d4068cb5944910@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b8fc4dd90703271942g3da1873fw85d90769b8a4e256@mail.gmail.com>
	<fc40260f0703272019l37bf5396t6be24c3159d648e@mail.gmail.com>
	<b8fc4dd90703272021v62de8376sd87de8daf8a7ca0d@mail.gmail.com>
	<fc40260f0703272024j7770c6fbp8ae6056ae87cf0ab@mail.gmail.com>
	<1305.216.17.75.74.1175058176.squirrel@www.krytosvirus.com>
	<101e49ea0703280612i3228876ax5cccd860a3ea8569@mail.gmail.com>
	<460A7C48.7050803@e-skinner.net>
	<1f663090703280914y3d720d29v82791acfb1a126b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<fc40260f0703280924x4ee51206q28749a07b36fb7@mail.gmail.com>
	<67f3084a0703290442i3fee3fa7ne5d4068cb5944910@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b8fc4dd90704010828h36a52c79y6f49ebc010f7be9@mail.gmail.com>

Hay, it worked!  I just rebooted and now I'm on CDT.  Awesome.  Glad I
asked.
(wow, that's crappy snark)
I heard Sun was sending out patches for this mini-y2k.
I use Sun almost as much as I use Windows. ..What a weird thing to say.


On 3/29/07, Shawn Fertch <sfertch at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 3/28/07, Erik Anderson <erikerik at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 3/28/07, Rob Terhaar <robbyt at robbyt.net> wrote:
> > > ok can someone explain why just doing
> > > ln -s /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Chicago /etc/localtime
> > >
> > > is bad?
> >
> > I've wondered the same thing in the past.  The best explanation I
> > could come up with is that if you're symlinking your tz file and have
> > /usr on a separate partition and that partition fails to mount
> > someday, things could get messy.
> >
> > I'm a gentoo user, and when I started using the distro, they
> > recommended symlinking that file.  Recently though, they've changed
> > their recommendation to actually copy the tz file.
> >
>
> This is across all distros.  It's brought on by our wonderful
> legislatures changing when DST occurs.
>
> All that being said, there's more to making a system compliant for DST
> than just updating the tzdata package.  You also need to update glibc
> packages, and if you're running java, that as well.
>
> On an RH/Fedora based system, there's a total of 4 packages if you
> don't count java:
>
> Glibc-common
> Glibc
> Glibc-utils
> Tzdata
>
>
> If you read into the FAQ by Red Hat, you would notice that if you
> updated all packages together, you do not need to change the
> /etc/localtime file by hand.  It's done automatically.  It would be a
> bad idea to delete the file, and recreate a symlink of /etc/localtime
> to your /usr/share/zoneinfo/TZFILE as the localtime file will be
> updated every time you update your system with the packages listed
> above and revert back to a copy of your tz file.
>
> The /etc/localtime file is a copy of your timezone as specified within
> the /etc/sysconfig/clock file on RH based systems.  Or, equivalent
> file depending upon your distro.
>
> --
> -Shawn
>
> -Nemo me impune lacessit.  Ne Obliviscaris..
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From anthony at tekoneracing.com  Sun Apr  1 13:07:20 2007
From: anthony at tekoneracing.com (Anthony Cavin)
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 13:07:20 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Bulletin board
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7.1175446806.19403.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.7.1175446806.19403.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <1175450840.5145.24.camel@xcube>

I'd be willing to host a bulletin board on my server if anyone's
interested.  these mailing lists are too old school for me to navigate
through



From tclug at natecarlson.com  Sun Apr  1 13:24:43 2007
From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 13:24:43 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Bulletin board
In-Reply-To: <1175450840.5145.24.camel@xcube>
References: <mailman.7.1175446806.19403.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<1175450840.5145.24.camel@xcube>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0704011324060.14112@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>

On Sun, 1 Apr 2007, Anthony Cavin wrote:
> I'd be willing to host a bulletin board on my server if anyone's 
> interested.  these mailing lists are too old school for me to navigate 
> through

We've hashed through this many times; the general concensus is that very 
few people want a bulletin board.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
| nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com |
|       depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981            |
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sun Apr  1 13:55:08 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 13:55:08 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200704011855.l31It8Z21633@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Free

Subject: Compaq Proliant 3000 - Free

Compaq Proliant 3000 with dual Pentium Pro 200, 640M memory, dual RAID controllers. Each array has 4 9GB drives in a RAID 5 configuration, making for 54GB total storage. Only problem is that there is a firmware mismatch on one of the RAID controllers forcing an F1 prompt to boot. And it could use a good dusting.

Located on East Side of St. Paul. Contact wolf at noquarter dot org for more info.

Seller Email address: bruce dot broecker at toro dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From kyle.quamme at gmail.com  Sun Apr  1 14:12:21 2007
From: kyle.quamme at gmail.com (Kyle Quamme)
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 14:12:21 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Bulletin board
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0704011324060.14112@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>
References: <mailman.7.1175446806.19403.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<1175450840.5145.24.camel@xcube>
	<Pine.LNX.4.63.0704011324060.14112@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>
Message-ID: <12f48e800704011212s1dc555fm807a3dbbe2859f0a@mail.gmail.com>

Personally, a bullitin board would be nice. I'd rather have a place that I
can search for fixes, etc instead of saving it all in my e-mail, of course
it's not that big of an issue since I have gmail, but still.

On 4/1/07, Nate Carlson <tclug at natecarlson.com> wrote:
>
> On Sun, 1 Apr 2007, Anthony Cavin wrote:
> > I'd be willing to host a bulletin board on my server if anyone's
> > interested.  these mailing lists are too old school for me to navigate
> > through
>
> We've hashed through this many times; the general concensus is that very
> few people want a bulletin board.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> | nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com |
> |       depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981            |
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From anthony at tekoneracing.com  Sun Apr  1 14:44:24 2007
From: anthony at tekoneracing.com (Anthony Cavin)
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 14:44:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] installfest
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7.1175446806.19403.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.7.1175446806.19403.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <1175456664.5145.26.camel@xcube>

when is the next installfest?  i don't think i've been to a TCLUG
meeting in like a year



From silwenae at gmail.com  Sun Apr  1 15:04:02 2007
From: silwenae at gmail.com (Paul Cutler)
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 16:04:02 -0400
Subject: [tclug-list] installfest
In-Reply-To: <1175456664.5145.26.camel@xcube>
References: <mailman.7.1175446806.19403.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<1175456664.5145.26.camel@xcube>
Message-ID: <4c4ad4df0704011304p46d03384u7a25e4f00df0642e@mail.gmail.com>

A few of us have volunteered to get the meetings going.  It's been harder
than expected to find a room location and speakers, but we're close and will
have an update soon.

Paul Cutler

On 4/1/07, Anthony Cavin <anthony at tekoneracing.com> wrote:
>
> when is the next installfest?  i don't think i've been to a TCLUG
> meeting in like a year
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From brockn at gmail.com  Sun Apr  1 15:42:07 2007
From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland)
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 15:42:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Bulletin board
In-Reply-To: <12f48e800704011212s1dc555fm807a3dbbe2859f0a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.7.1175446806.19403.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<1175450840.5145.24.camel@xcube>
	<Pine.LNX.4.63.0704011324060.14112@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>
	<12f48e800704011212s1dc555fm807a3dbbe2859f0a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <741dcbb80704011342y701a1345k213fa61e10bbf0d6@mail.gmail.com>

It seems like a BB would only be a benefit if we had a lot of TC
specific things to discuss.  For general Linux topics, there are a ton
of BB's out there.

Brock

On 4/1/07, Kyle Quamme <kyle.quamme at gmail.com> wrote:
> Personally, a bullitin board would be nice. I'd rather have a place that I
> can search for fixes, etc instead of saving it all in my e-mail, of course
> it's not that big of an issue since I have gmail, but still.
>
>
> On 4/1/07, Nate Carlson <tclug at natecarlson.com> wrote:
> > On Sun, 1 Apr 2007, Anthony Cavin wrote:
> > > I'd be willing to host a bulletin board on my server if anyone's
> > > interested.  these mailing lists are too old school for me to navigate
> > > through
> >
> > We've hashed through this many times; the general concensus is that very
> > few people want a bulletin board.
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > | nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com |
> > |       depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981            |
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>


-- 
http://free-sailboat-listings.com
http://spamdefeator.com


From chewie at wookimus.net  Sun Apr  1 16:30:15 2007
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 16:30:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] ntp and CST
In-Reply-To: <b8fc4dd90704010828h36a52c79y6f49ebc010f7be9@mail.gmail.com> 
References: <b8fc4dd90703271942g3da1873fw85d90769b8a4e256@mail.gmail.com>
	<fc40260f0703272019l37bf5396t6be24c3159d648e@mail.gmail.com>
	<b8fc4dd90703272021v62de8376sd87de8daf8a7ca0d@mail.gmail.com>
	<fc40260f0703272024j7770c6fbp8ae6056ae87cf0ab@mail.gmail.com>
	<1305.216.17.75.74.1175058176.squirrel@www.krytosvirus.com>
	<101e49ea0703280612i3228876ax5cccd860a3ea8569@mail.gmail.com>
	<460A7C48.7050803@e-skinner.net>
	<1f663090703280914y3d720d29v82791acfb1a126b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<fc40260f0703280924x4ee51206q28749a07b36fb7@mail.gmail.com>
	<67f3084a0703290442i3fee3fa7ne5d4068cb5944910@mail.gmail.com>
	<b8fc4dd90704010828h36a52c79y6f49ebc010f7be9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070401213015.4C7B976D9@skuld.wookimus.net>

"Bob Hartmann" <bob.hartmann at gmail.com>  wrote:
> Hay, it worked!  I just rebooted and now I'm on CDT.  Awesome.  Glad
> I asked.  (wow, that's crappy snark) I heard Sun was sending out
> patches for this mini-y2k.  I use Sun almost as much as I use
> Windows. ..What a weird thing to say.

Actually, Sun's had Solaris and Java patches for a while.  It's just
that many businesses and vendors didn't bother worrying about it until
shortly before.  There is a catch to Sun's Solaris support, though.
They don't provide patches to anything less than Solaris 8 without a
fee. :-P  Good thing we only had a few boxes we had to worry about at
work.

-- 
Chad Walstrom <chewie at wookimus.net>           http://www.wookimus.net/
           assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */



From nate at refried.org  Sun Apr  1 16:39:40 2007
From: nate at refried.org (Nate Straz)
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 16:39:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Bulletin board
In-Reply-To: <12f48e800704011212s1dc555fm807a3dbbe2859f0a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.7.1175446806.19403.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<1175450840.5145.24.camel@xcube>
	<Pine.LNX.4.63.0704011324060.14112@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>
	<12f48e800704011212s1dc555fm807a3dbbe2859f0a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070401213940.GA5893@refried.org>

On Sun, Apr 01, 2007 at 02:12:21PM -0500, Kyle Quamme wrote:
> Personally, a bullitin board would be nice. I'd rather have a place that I
> can search for fixes, etc instead of saving it all in my e-mail, of course
> it's not that big of an issue since I have gmail, but still.

If all you want is a better way to search through posts, how about
looking for a better archives interface?

Nate


From anthony at tekoneracing.com  Sun Apr  1 17:42:52 2007
From: anthony at tekoneracing.com (Anthony Cavin)
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 17:42:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] bulletin board
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1127.1175463128.2107.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1127.1175463128.2107.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <1175467372.5145.30.camel@xcube>

the reason i was thinking it was that it would be easier to organize
meetings that way and give the appearance of a more active website.  i
think the last update on the community site was back in january



From kyle.quamme at gmail.com  Sun Apr  1 18:34:35 2007
From: kyle.quamme at gmail.com (Kyle Quamme)
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 18:34:35 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Bulletin board
In-Reply-To: <20070401213940.GA5893@refried.org>
References: <mailman.7.1175446806.19403.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<1175450840.5145.24.camel@xcube>
	<Pine.LNX.4.63.0704011324060.14112@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>
	<12f48e800704011212s1dc555fm807a3dbbe2859f0a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070401213940.GA5893@refried.org>
Message-ID: <12f48e800704011634y448045f4ob5f799764dfa50d2@mail.gmail.com>

I  can find things alright, but saving all of the emails is going to use up
space, so if I decide not to save them, I'll probably end up asking a
question later on that's already been answered, or I'll have to make another
e-mail just for list correspondence. Doing it this way is sort of a waste of
bytes because if someone else does the same thing, it takes up room on
multiple machines/locations when it could be put in a central location and
would only use up space in one location. Does that make sense?

Kyle
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From seehow at iphouse.com  Sun Apr  1 19:01:04 2007
From: seehow at iphouse.com (Christopher Howard)
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 19:01:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Bulletin board
In-Reply-To: <12f48e800704011634y448045f4ob5f799764dfa50d2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.7.1175446806.19403.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<1175450840.5145.24.camel@xcube>
	<Pine.LNX.4.63.0704011324060.14112@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>
	<12f48e800704011212s1dc555fm807a3dbbe2859f0a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070401213940.GA5893@refried.org>
	<12f48e800704011634y448045f4ob5f799764dfa50d2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1175472064.1238.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Isn't this list on gmane?




From brockn at gmail.com  Sun Apr  1 19:28:47 2007
From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland)
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 19:28:47 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Bulletin board
In-Reply-To: <1175472064.1238.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <mailman.7.1175446806.19403.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<1175450840.5145.24.camel@xcube>
	<Pine.LNX.4.63.0704011324060.14112@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>
	<12f48e800704011212s1dc555fm807a3dbbe2859f0a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070401213940.GA5893@refried.org>
	<12f48e800704011634y448045f4ob5f799764dfa50d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<1175472064.1238.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <741dcbb80704011728x590c2556r9cfa97a65fa1a31b@mail.gmail.com>

Indeed:

http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user%2dgroups.linux.tclug

On 4/1/07, Christopher Howard <seehow at iphouse.com> wrote:
> Isn't this list on gmane?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


-- 
http://free-sailboat-listings.com
http://spamdefeator.com


From jima at beer.tclug.org  Sun Apr  1 20:46:33 2007
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 20:46:33 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
In-Reply-To: <200704011855.l31It8Z21633@crusader.real-time.com>
References: <200704011855.l31It8Z21633@crusader.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0704012043310.7527@beer.tclug.org>

On Sun, 1 Apr 2007, TCLUG Classifieds wrote:
> Compaq Proliant 3000 with dual Pentium Pro 200, 640M memory, dual RAID 
> controllers. Each array has 4 9GB drives in a RAID 5 configuration, 
> making for 54GB total storage. Only problem is that there is a firmware 
> mismatch on one of the RAID controllers forcing an F1 prompt to boot. 
> And it could use a good dusting.

  Have you tried running no_f1.com on it?  It disables the "press F1 to 
continue" (or whatever) prompt for most problems on Compaqs.  (Smaller 
ones, at least -- I haven't had the need to try it on my Proliant.)  If 
you (or whoever takes this beast off your hands) can't find it, email me 
off-list -- I know I have it.  (Three copies of it, apparently.)

      Jima


From Bruce.Broecker at toro.com  Sun Apr  1 21:02:28 2007
From: Bruce.Broecker at toro.com (Bruce Broecker)
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 21:02:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0704012043310.7527@beer.tclug.org>
Message-ID: <C235CE64.1501%bruce.broecker@toro.com>


On 4/1/07 8:46 PM, "Jima" <jima at beer.tclug.org> wrote:

> 
>   Have you tried running no_f1.com on it?  It disables the "press F1 to
> continue" (or whatever) prompt for most problems on Compaqs.  (Smaller
> ones, at least -- I haven't had the need to try it on my Proliant.)  If
> you (or whoever takes this beast off your hands) can't find it, email me
> off-list -- I know I have it.  (Three copies of it, apparently.)
> 
>       Jima

Never heard of it, but now its not my problem anymore. Server has already
Moved on.

Bruce

This electronic message including any attachments ("Message") may
contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from
disclosure under trade secret and other applicable law. If you are not
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delete all copies of this Message, and be aware that examination, use,
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From nicholas.thompson1 at mchsi.com  Mon Apr  2 01:53:13 2007
From: nicholas.thompson1 at mchsi.com (nick thompson)
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 06:53:13 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] installfest
In-Reply-To: <4c4ad4df0704011304p46d03384u7a25e4f00df0642e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.7.1175446806.19403.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>	<1175456664.5145.26.camel@xcube>
	<4c4ad4df0704011304p46d03384u7a25e4f00df0642e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4610A859.1040707@mchsi.com>

Paul Cutler wrote:
> A few of us have volunteered to get the meetings going.  It's been 
> harder than expected to find a room location and speakers, but we're 
> close and will have an update soon.
>
> Paul Cutler
I can't wait. A meeting! :)

Nick

"All unix, all the time."

http://npt.ath.cx


>
> On 4/1/07, *Anthony Cavin* <anthony at tekoneracing.com 
> <mailto:anthony at tekoneracing.com>> wrote:
>
>     when is the next installfest?  i don't think i've been to a TCLUG
>     meeting in like a year
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Mon Apr  2 11:21:32 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 11:21:32 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] North Central Linux Symposium 2007 (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0704021120320.23367@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

I received this from a bioinformatics list at the U.  --Mike


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: North Central Linux Symposium 2007
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 21:20:50 -0500

All-
Mark your calendars!  The second annual North Central Linux Symposium
will be held June 14 & 15, 2007.  Hennepin Technical College in Brooklyn
Park, a northern suburb of Minneapolis, will be hosting the conference
this year.  HTC has a nice auditorium we'll be using.  The format will
be similar to last year: Day 1 will be spent showing off K12LTSP to
people from schools from around Minnesota; Day 2 will cover the future
of LTSP, details about version 5 of LTSP, and so on.  Jim McQuillan and
Scott Balneaves will both be there, and I'm hoping Gideon Romm, who has
done a lot of the work on the sound system, will also make it.  See the
website for more information: http://www.nclinux.net .  Please register so we 
know if you're coming (as some of you have already).  If you have any
questions, you can send them via the website.  Hope to see you there.

Petre Scheie
Organizer, NCLS


From admin at lctn.org  Mon Apr  2 12:45:29 2007
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 12:45:29 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] video switcher
Message-ID: <2205.64.8.148.4.1175535929.squirrel@lctn.org>

I am browsing source forge for a video switcher project, but am not
finding anything. Anyone aware of a project that can switch between 4 live
video feeds, with a single (or more) ntsc output?


Raymond

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
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From erikerik at gmail.com  Mon Apr  2 12:54:32 2007
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 12:54:32 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] video switcher
In-Reply-To: <2205.64.8.148.4.1175535929.squirrel@lctn.org>
References: <2205.64.8.148.4.1175535929.squirrel@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <fc40260f0704021054k23e997b3hac6d799d5400d477@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/2/07, admin at lctn.org <admin at lctn.org> wrote:
> I am browsing source forge for a video switcher project, but am not
> finding anything. Anyone aware of a project that can switch between 4 live
> video feeds, with a single (or more) ntsc output?

Are you hoping to do this in software?  If not, there are a myriad of
cheap hardware video switchers that can do this quite easily, and with
much higher stability, I might add.

I don't know of any projects to do this, but it wouldn't be hard to
homebrew, using vlc to do the video capturing/display.  Of course
you'd need 4+ capture cards in the PC.

-erik


From admin at lctn.org  Mon Apr  2 12:58:34 2007
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 12:58:34 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] video switcher
In-Reply-To: <fc40260f0704021054k23e997b3hac6d799d5400d477@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2205.64.8.148.4.1175535929.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<fc40260f0704021054k23e997b3hac6d799d5400d477@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3421.64.8.148.4.1175536714.squirrel@lctn.org>

> I don't know of any projects to do this, but it wouldn't be hard to
> homebrew, using vlc to do the video capturing/display.  Of course
> you'd need 4+ capture cards in the PC.
>


I happen to have quite a few capture cards, so I was looking to set up a
PC for this.

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
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believed to be clean.



From admin at lctn.org  Mon Apr  2 13:56:19 2007
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 13:56:19 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] video switcher
In-Reply-To: <46114D03.9060006@cdf123.net>
References: <2205.64.8.148.4.1175535929.squirrel@lctn.org>	<fc40260f0704021054k23e997b3hac6d799d5400d477@mail.gmail.com>
	<3421.64.8.148.4.1175536714.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<46114D03.9060006@cdf123.net>
Message-ID: <4235.64.8.148.4.1175540179.squirrel@lctn.org>

> Depending on the capture cards, that might not be so easy.  I've got a
> couple old wintv cards that I was going to hook up, but they were frame
> capture cards.  So I needed to use a cd-audio cable from the capture
> card to the sound card.  Most sound cards only have a cd and aux1 port
> for this, so 4 cards would need a second sound card, or more if the
> cards only have one cd-audio port.
>
> Or you could do what I did and get a mpeg encoder card (with multiple
> tuner options if you want), but those are expensive.


This would be strictly video. All audio runs separate.

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From erikerik at gmail.com  Mon Apr  2 14:36:07 2007
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 14:36:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] video switcher
In-Reply-To: <4235.64.8.148.4.1175540179.squirrel@lctn.org>
References: <2205.64.8.148.4.1175535929.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<fc40260f0704021054k23e997b3hac6d799d5400d477@mail.gmail.com>
	<3421.64.8.148.4.1175536714.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<46114D03.9060006@cdf123.net>
	<4235.64.8.148.4.1175540179.squirrel@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <fc40260f0704021236p11553280v4e6a7dbd36f6d355@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/2/07, admin at lctn.org <admin at lctn.org> wrote:
>
> This would be strictly video. All audio runs separate.

Now - I obviously don't know the whole situation here, but to me, this
sounds like a classic sledgehammer/thumbtack issue.  Just because you
*can* use linux/technology to accomplish a task doesn't mean it's
always the best idea.

If you don't have an explicit need for this to be run through a PC,
just buy an off-the-shelf video switch.  That'll free up your cards
for you to do something more enjoyable with...MythTV perhaps?

-erik


From iipreca at hotmail.com  Mon Apr  2 18:07:44 2007
From: iipreca at hotmail.com (G J)
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 18:07:44 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] video switcher
In-Reply-To: <fc40260f0704021236p11553280v4e6a7dbd36f6d355@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F6BB4F6CEA015163932804AA600@phx.gbl>

You might want to check out Aten, Extron and Kramer, these folks make very 
nice video equipment
and I'm almost positive they can all be controlled via RS-232 with very 
simple serial instructions as well as manually, ebay always has a good list 
of equipment for less too.

Jesse


>
>I am browsing source forge for a video switcher project, but am not
>finding anything. Anyone aware of a project that can switch between 4 live
>video feeds, with a single (or more) ntsc output?
>
>
>Raymond
>
>--
>This message has been scanned for viruses and
>dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
>believed to be clean.
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list





>From: "Erik Anderson" <erikerik at gmail.com>
>To: "admin at lctn.org" <admin at lctn.org>
>CC: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>Subject: Re: [tclug-list] video switcher
>Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 14:36:07 -0500
>
>On 4/2/07, admin at lctn.org <admin at lctn.org> wrote:
> >
> > This would be strictly video. All audio runs separate.
>
>Now - I obviously don't know the whole situation here, but to me, this
>sounds like a classic sledgehammer/thumbtack issue.  Just because you
>*can* use linux/technology to accomplish a task doesn't mean it's
>always the best idea.
>
>If you don't have an explicit need for this to be run through a PC,
>just buy an off-the-shelf video switch.  That'll free up your cards
>for you to do something more enjoyable with...MythTV perhaps?
>
>-erik
>
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

_________________________________________________________________
Mortgage refinance is hot 1) Rates near 30-yr lows 2) Good credit get 
intro-rate 4.625%* 
https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h2a5f&s=4056&p=5117&disc=y&vers=743



From jus at krytosvirus.com  Mon Apr  2 18:44:10 2007
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (jus at krytosvirus.com)
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 18:44:10 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] connecting dsl
In-Reply-To: <460BF41F.4070007@sihope.com>
Message-ID: <0Eclb0md.1175557450.6588640.jus@krytosvirus.com>

>I have installed xandros business pack on a computer.  I am having
>problems with
>getting a connection. The results are "no DCHP offers received"
>
>Windows works just fine with all the computers in the house, but,
>I cannot get a connection with xandros on the same network.
>
>any ideas?

I would start with the basics. Are you getting a network link? Did you
try using a new cable? Or use the same cable on another machine that is
known to work. Did you try setting a static IP address in Xandros? Did
you check the pertinent log files?

I only tried Xandros once two years ago just to see how windows-like it
was - it was pretty easy to configure and like windows but I am sure
they put logs in the usual place like /var/log/. You check the logs like
"messages" or "allmessages" or whatever it might be called.


From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Mon Apr  2 20:41:38 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 20:41:38 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200704030141.l331fcM17183@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: 45U Rack with sides, doors and accessories

45U rack with sides and doors

This is a plain 4-post rack with removable sides and doors. The rack does not have the latch plates attached to it, so the doors stay shut by pressure, one latch plate is included for future installation.

Comes with two small rackmount utility shelves, one pair of slide rails, two rackmount power strips and two cable management panels. Rack has three server rails installed. These are the simple L-bracket model.

86.5" x 31.5" x 23" exterior dimensions.

Rack can accomodate 29.5" depth.

$100

I also have two 4U ATX rackmount cases, $20 for one, bare, $40 for the other, with PS, Athlon XP 1500 CPU+mobo. Both are black in color. 

Seller Email address: rudie at sihope dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu  Mon Apr  2 21:19:27 2007
From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks)
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 21:19:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] ntp and CST
In-Reply-To: <20070328170803.GG17401@iucha.net>
References: <fc40260f0703272011p2573e954ja1754ca0143f2af4@mail.gmail.com>
	<b8fc4dd90703272015y318953dctc18fc89cd74b1d09@mail.gmail.com>
	<fc40260f0703272019l37bf5396t6be24c3159d648e@mail.gmail.com>
	<b8fc4dd90703272021v62de8376sd87de8daf8a7ca0d@mail.gmail.com>
	<fc40260f0703272024j7770c6fbp8ae6056ae87cf0ab@mail.gmail.com>
	<1305.216.17.75.74.1175058176.squirrel@www.krytosvirus.com>
	<101e49ea0703280612i3228876ax5cccd860a3ea8569@mail.gmail.com>
	<460A7C48.7050803@e-skinner.net>
	<1f663090703280914y3d720d29v82791acfb1a126b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<fc40260f0703280924x4ee51206q28749a07b36fb7@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070328170803.GG17401@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <1175566767.4179.5.camel@localhost>

On Wed, 2007-03-28 at 12:08 -0500, Florin Iucha wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 28, 2007 at 11:24:57AM -0500, Erik Anderson wrote:
> > On 3/28/07, Rob Terhaar <robbyt at robbyt.net> wrote:
> > > ok can someone explain why just doing
> > > ln -s /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Chicago /etc/localtime
> > >
> > > is bad?
> > 
> > I've wondered the same thing in the past.  The best explanation I
> > could come up with is that if you're symlinking your tz file and have
> > /usr on a separate partition and that partition fails to mount
> > someday, things could get messy.
> 
> On Debian, some script that reads the /etc/localtime file runs before
> /usr is mounted, so even in the absence of failure, your time will be
> off.

Meh.  The system defaults to showing times in "UTC" if /etc/localtime is
broken or nonexistent, and I can live with that.

-- 
Mike Hicks <hick0088 at tc.umn.edu>
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From admin at lctn.org  Tue Apr  3 08:49:43 2007
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 08:49:43 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] reload port forwarding
Message-ID: <3584.64.8.148.4.1175608183.squirrel@lctn.org>

Anyone know what the command via ssh would be to reload port forwarding on
an IPCop box?

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
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From srcfoo at gmail.com  Tue Apr  3 09:42:21 2007
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 09:42:21 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] reload port forwarding
In-Reply-To: <3584.64.8.148.4.1175608183.squirrel@lctn.org>
References: <3584.64.8.148.4.1175608183.squirrel@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30704030742q35261129p469fd44c46742515@mail.gmail.com>

I assume you mean you want to flush the forward rules and reload them.
I suggest just reloading the entire iptables rule set:

/etc/rc.d/rc.firewall restart

That should work.

On 4/3/07, admin at lctn.org <admin at lctn.org> wrote:
> Anyone know what the command via ssh would be to reload port forwarding on
> an IPCop box?
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From admin at lctn.org  Tue Apr  3 10:58:28 2007
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 10:58:28 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] reload port forwarding
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30704030742q35261129p469fd44c46742515@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3584.64.8.148.4.1175608183.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<579c6fd30704030742q35261129p469fd44c46742515@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4815.64.8.148.4.1175615908.squirrel@lctn.org>

> I assume you mean you want to flush the forward rules and reload them.
> I suggest just reloading the entire iptables rule set:
>
> /etc/rc.d/rc.firewall restart
>

I've tried that. You would think that would work, but it does not update
my changes unless I reboot, which I was hoping to avoid.

I tried restarting rc.firewall again, but no go.

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
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From admin at lctn.org  Tue Apr  3 12:27:02 2007
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 12:27:02 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] reload port forwarding
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30704030742q35261129p469fd44c46742515@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3584.64.8.148.4.1175608183.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<579c6fd30704030742q35261129p469fd44c46742515@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2779.64.8.148.4.1175621222.squirrel@lctn.org>

> I assume you mean you want to flush the forward rules and reload them.
> I suggest just reloading the entire iptables rule set:
>
> /etc/rc.d/rc.firewall restart
>
> That should work.


The command is:


/usr/local/bin/setportfw

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This message has been scanned for viruses and
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believed to be clean.



From florin at iucha.net  Tue Apr  3 18:41:06 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 18:41:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] consulting rates?
Message-ID: <20070403234106.GJ7284@iucha.net>

Guys,

What are some good resources on consulting rates?  I'm talking to a
small business owner about Linux support and consulting for their shop.
Mainly remote troubleshooting, with bulk work during weekends, if
need be.

Thanks,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From dave.dash at gmail.com  Tue Apr  3 20:48:34 2007
From: dave.dash at gmail.com (Dave Dash)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 20:48:34 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] consulting rates?
In-Reply-To: <20070403234106.GJ7284@iucha.net>
References: <20070403234106.GJ7284@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <694fa1450704031848w75bfde39mab703be4bde2f0b7@mail.gmail.com>

I've seen people charge anywhere from $25-100/hr for various computer
related consulting.  Unfortunately nobody likes to share how much they
charge as it tends to be a not for public consumption.

If I weren't already doing some consulting (albeit on the side), I'd pick a
number between $25-100 that is more than what I'd be making at a similar
full time or even contract gig (and you can call recruiters to find those
out).  Then just keep to that.  But really the rate doesn't matter so much
as the quality of service.... of course, I'm not the small business owner
cutting you the check, so what do I know.

-d

On 4/3/07, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:
>
> Guys,
>
> What are some good resources on consulting rates?  I'm talking to a
> small business owner about Linux support and consulting for their shop.
> Mainly remote troubleshooting, with bulk work during weekends, if
> need be.
>
> Thanks,
> florin
>
> --
> Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
>       http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
>
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> 9x3n3Dw3htIu2xdcEH0QFKc=
> =qWUK
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>


-- 
Dave Dash
612.670.0621
Discover your favorite restaurant: reviewsby.us
gtalk: dave.dash
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From bob.hartmann at gmail.com  Tue Apr  3 22:05:43 2007
From: bob.hartmann at gmail.com (Bob Hartmann)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:05:43 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] consulting rates?
In-Reply-To: <694fa1450704031848w75bfde39mab703be4bde2f0b7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070403234106.GJ7284@iucha.net>
	<694fa1450704031848w75bfde39mab703be4bde2f0b7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b8fc4dd90704032005i25c613c2o731287aaaff9971@mail.gmail.com>

This is a great question, and I hope more "guys" try to answer.  I've
recently been asked to name a price, after being interviewed about what I
could accomplish and how.  and I said uhhhhh, forty?  I wanted to say $100,
but I wanted the work, too.
My not great answer is something like:
- depends on the nature of the work and level of responsibility
follows to ->
- depends on how much you like or trust them --> back to #1
- depends on why you want to do it  --> and back to #1



On 4/3/07, Dave Dash <dave.dash at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I've seen people charge anywhere from $25-100/hr for various computer
> related consulting.  Unfortunately nobody likes to share how much they
> charge as it tends to be a not for public consumption.
>
> If I weren't already doing some consulting (albeit on the side), I'd pick
> a number between $25-100 that is more than what I'd be making at a similar
> full time or even contract gig (and you can call recruiters to find those
> out).  Then just keep to that.  But really the rate doesn't matter so much
> as the quality of service.... of course, I'm not the small business owner
> cutting you the check, so what do I know.
>
> -d
>
> On 4/3/07, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:
>
> > Guys,
> >
> > What are some good resources on consulting rates?  I'm talking to a
> > small business owner about Linux support and consulting for their shop.
> > Mainly remote troubleshooting, with bulk work during weekends, if
> > need be.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > florin
> >
> > --
> > Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
> >       http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
> >
> > iD8DBQFGEuYSND0rFCN2b1sRAplnAJ9bMKpb2z3sPN3Fw9e24I3MtIDvjgCfRyRK
> > 9x3n3Dw3htIu2xdcEH0QFKc=
> > =qWUK
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Dave Dash
> 612.670.0621
> Discover your favorite restaurant: reviewsby.us
> gtalk: dave.dash
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From jpschewe at mtu.net  Tue Apr  3 22:31:07 2007
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 22:31:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
Message-ID: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>

Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".


________________________________________________________________________

Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
Help Jen and I fight cancer by donating to the Leukemia & Lymphomia
Society
Here's our website: http://www.active.com/donate/tntmn/tntmnJSchewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature.
See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.
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From florin at iucha.net  Tue Apr  3 22:40:06 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:40:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
Message-ID: <20070404034006.GK7284@iucha.net>

On Tue, Apr 03, 2007 at 10:31:07PM -0500, Jon Schewe wrote:
> Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
> mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
> outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".

Indirectly it is for your protection, since your computer is less
useful as a drone/zombie thus slightly less attractive as a target.

florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From brian at ropers-huilman.net  Tue Apr  3 22:40:20 2007
From: brian at ropers-huilman.net (Brian D. Ropers-Huilman)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:40:20 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
Message-ID: <f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/3/07, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:
> Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
> mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
> outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".

This is a fairly common practice to prevent you from using mail
servers that are not their own. One easy solution is to setup your MTA
to listen on another port (I've used 2525) or to send via SSL/TLS as
they never think to block 465.

-- 
Brian D. Ropers-Huilman, Director
Systems Administration and Technical Operations
Supercomputing Institute                           <bropers at msi.umn.edu>
599 Walter Library                                   +1 612-626-5948 (V)
117 Pleasant Street S.E.                             +1 612-624-8861 (F)
University of Minnesota                               Twin Cities Campus
Minneapolis, MN 55455-0255                       http://www.msi.umn.edu/


From jeff at digitalguy.net  Tue Apr  3 22:47:53 2007
From: jeff at digitalguy.net (Jeffrey Lehman)
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 22:47:53 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
Message-ID: <46131FE9.1050900@digitalguy.net>

Jon Schewe wrote:
> Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
> mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
> outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".
>
>   
Both outgoing  and incoming SMTP work for me from Qwest land.


From trnja001 at umn.edu  Tue Apr  3 23:03:36 2007
From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin)
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 23:03:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46132398.7020201@umn.edu>

Or an easier solution is to use a "smart host" which is your ISP's mail 
server acting as a forwarder when you're sending mail. The same mail 
server you use to send mail for your ISP e-mail account should work.

Brian D. Ropers-Huilman wrote:
> On 4/3/07, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:
>   
>> Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
>> mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
>> outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".
>>     
>
> This is a fairly common practice to prevent you from using mail
> servers that are not their own. One easy solution is to setup your MTA
> to listen on another port (I've used 2525) or to send via SSL/TLS as
> they never think to block 465.
>
>   



From jack at jacku.com  Tue Apr  3 23:05:39 2007
From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 23:05:39 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] consulting rates?
In-Reply-To: <20070403234106.GJ7284@iucha.net>
References: <20070403234106.GJ7284@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <200704032305.40186.jack@jacku.com>

On Tuesday 03 April 2007 6:41 pm, Florin Iucha wrote:
> Guys,
>
> What are some good resources on consulting rates?  I'm talking to a
> small business owner about Linux support and consulting for their shop.
> Mainly remote troubleshooting, with bulk work during weekends, if
> need be.
>
> Thanks,
> florin

My advise, pick a number that you're comfortable with and be prepared to 
negotiate. The stated range of $25-$100 an hour isn't all that far off in my 
opinion. But I think in this market you can narrow it even further to 
$60-$75/hr. What I usually do (or did) is to have a couple of "official" 
rates. One for long term projects (ex. $65/hr), one for short term projects 
(ex. $100/hr) and usually I'll offer "non-profit" and "wholesale" discounts.  

For example if I'm doing some development or support work for a non-profit I 
might charge $50/hr instead of $65 depending on their budget. If I do a 
little sub-contracting I'll quote my higher rate but charge the main 
consultant the lower rate and let him pocket the difference.

Don't price yourself too cheap. If its a group with little or no money offer 
them a "special deal" if you want to do the work, but remember to value the 
time you'll spend doing it accurately. I remember a story a friend told me 
many years ago. He had a buddy who was charge $65/hr as a COBOL programmer. 
He had some work but not enough. He repackaged his resume and his services, 
doubled his rate to $125/hr and had more work then he could handle. At $65 he 
was just another COBOL programmer. At $125 he was a high powered Business 
Systems Analyst. You always want your high rate to be high enough to scare 
people off. If you've got somebody who wants you to take a gig you really 
don't want bid it outrageously high. If you're lucky they won't go with you 
because you're too expensive. If they do decide to use you then you know your 
making enough to "pay for the aggravation"  that will come with the job. 

Experience should be your determining factor. If you know the stuff inside and 
out and will be able to accomplish tasks quickly charge more. Let them know 
that your rate may be higher but you won't take as long as someone with a 
lower price and less experience. In the long run they will save money.

Okay I've rambled long enough on this. I hope people find it useful.

Jack

-- 
Jack Ungerleider
jack at jacku.com
http://www.jacku.com


From erikerik at gmail.com  Tue Apr  3 23:11:12 2007
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 23:11:12 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
Message-ID: <fc40260f0704032111k641bc2a3o796cf7296ead2924@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/3/07, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:
> Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
> mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
> outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".

Yes!  The bastards.  I just noticed this earlier this evening.  I
initially thought that it was an issue with my smtp provider, but when
it still didn't work several hours later, I became suspicious.

...all the more reason to consider switching to Qwest/IPhouse.

-erik


From thecubic at thecubic.net  Wed Apr  4 01:00:49 2007
From: thecubic at thecubic.net (Dave Carlson)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 01:00:49 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
Message-ID: <200704040100.56224.thecubic@thecubic.net>

I can still both initiate and recieve SMTP traffic from both of my Comcast 
(Eagan, Minneapolis) hosts.

I can't see this persisting too long.  A lot of people don't have or use 
Comcast accounts and this would be a dealbreaker.

They already monitor for email drones - I don't know why they would need this.

-Dave

On Tuesday 03 April 2007 22:31:07 Jon Schewe wrote:
> Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
> mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
> outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".


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From adam at askewview.net  Wed Apr  4 07:28:46 2007
From: adam at askewview.net (Adam)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 07:28:46 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <200704040100.56224.thecubic@thecubic.net>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<200704040100.56224.thecubic@thecubic.net>
Message-ID: <461399FE.6070905@askewview.net>

When I used to work for Astound Broadband in St. Cloud (R.I.P) we had 
started doing this back in late '01. It really cut down in the number of 
complaints I received about spam coming from our IP blocks.
Yes its a total PITA for those of us who actually know what we are doing 
and want greater flexability/usability of our internet services but for 
the ISP and most of its idiotic virus infested Windows users it ends up 
being a good thing. Just think about the thousands of Windows drones 
that are no longer sending out crap tons of useless email.

Just my .02

-Adam


Dave Carlson wrote:
> I can still both initiate and recieve SMTP traffic from both of my Comcast 
> (Eagan, Minneapolis) hosts.
>
> I can't see this persisting too long.  A lot of people don't have or use 
> Comcast accounts and this would be a dealbreaker.
>
> They already monitor for email drones - I don't know why they would need this.
>
> -Dave
>
> On Tuesday 03 April 2007 22:31:07 Jon Schewe wrote:
>   
>> Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
>> mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
>> outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".
>>     
>
>
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From richart-it at marshacademy.com  Wed Apr  4 09:57:23 2007
From: richart-it at marshacademy.com (richart-it)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 08:57:23 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <fc40260f0704032111k641bc2a3o796cf7296ead2924@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<fc40260f0704032111k641bc2a3o796cf7296ead2924@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4613BCD3.5090407@marshacademy.com>

Hi all;
Just an observation, if you go to the mtu.net website, they mention they 
have been having trouble with people hacking on the email server. If you 
check out the "How to Access mtu.net", all connections use SSL. (the 
following is silly but should be noted) Check your emailer program and 
insure your smtp connection is using ssl and not TSL. I am using 
Thunderbird and when I click on the SSL option, the outgoing port 
switches from 25 to 465 (naturally!)

It could very well be that mtu.net has blocked port 25 ???
just a thought
=rich=

Erik Anderson wrote:
> On 4/3/07, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:
>   
>> Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
>> mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
>> outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".
>>     
>
> Yes!  The bastards.  I just noticed this earlier this evening.  I
> initially thought that it was an issue with my smtp provider, but when
> it still didn't work several hours later, I became suspicious.
>
> ...all the more reason to consider switching to Qwest/IPhouse.
>
> -erik
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>   




From jpschewe at mtu.net  Wed Apr  4 09:09:01 2007
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 09:09:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <fc40260f0704032111k641bc2a3o796cf7296ead2924@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<fc40260f0704032111k641bc2a3o796cf7296ead2924@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1175695741.7493.117.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>

On Tue, 2007-04-03 at 23:11 -0500, Erik Anderson wrote:

> On 4/3/07, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:
> > Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
> > mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
> > outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".
> 
> Yes!  The bastards.  I just noticed this earlier this evening.  I
> initially thought that it was an issue with my smtp provider, but when
> it still didn't work several hours later, I became suspicious.
> 
> ...all the more reason to consider switching to Qwest/IPhouse.


Except that DSL is so much slower than cable modem and doesn't go quite
as far from the CO.

________________________________________________________________________

Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
Help Jen and I fight cancer by donating to the Leukemia & Lymphomia
Society
Here's our website: http://www.active.com/donate/tntmn/tntmnJSchewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature.
See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.
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From jpschewe at mtu.net  Wed Apr  4 09:08:22 2007
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 09:08:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1175695702.7493.115.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>

I made my server listen on two ports now, but what about people that
don't have control over their mail servers?

On Tue, 2007-04-03 at 22:40 -0500, Brian D. Ropers-Huilman wrote:

> On 4/3/07, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:
> > Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
> > mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
> > outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".
> 
> This is a fairly common practice to prevent you from using mail
> servers that are not their own. One easy solution is to setup your MTA
> to listen on another port (I've used 2525) or to send via SSL/TLS as
> they never think to block 465.
> 


________________________________________________________________________

Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
Help Jen and I fight cancer by donating to the Leukemia & Lymphomia
Society
Here's our website: http://www.active.com/donate/tntmn/tntmnJSchewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature.
See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.
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From jpschewe at mtu.net  Wed Apr  4 09:09:51 2007
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 09:09:51 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <200704040100.56224.thecubic@thecubic.net>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<200704040100.56224.thecubic@thecubic.net>
Message-ID: <1175695791.7493.119.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>

Good question.  I spoke with their online support last night and they
said this was to protect me from viruses.  I told them I don't need
their protection, but their supervisor said they can't turn off the
block.

On Wed, 2007-04-04 at 01:00 -0500, Dave Carlson wrote:

> I can still both initiate and recieve SMTP traffic from both of my Comcast 
> (Eagan, Minneapolis) hosts.
> 
> I can't see this persisting too long.  A lot of people don't have or use 
> Comcast accounts and this would be a dealbreaker.
> 
> They already monitor for email drones - I don't know why they would need this.
> 
> -Dave
> 
> On Tuesday 03 April 2007 22:31:07 Jon Schewe wrote:
> > Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
> > mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
> > outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".
> 
> 


________________________________________________________________________

Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
Help Jen and I fight cancer by donating to the Leukemia & Lymphomia
Society
Here's our website: http://www.active.com/donate/tntmn/tntmnJSchewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature.
See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.
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From wdtj at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  4 09:22:59 2007
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:22:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070404142259.64931.qmail@web53810.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

And there are some MTA's (the startrib.com one for instance) that refuse to accept mail from ISP client addresses.  The solution is to send the mail to the ISP's mailserver and let it route it.

I'm not defending the practice (either blocking or refusing ISP client connections), just listing a workaround.



"Brian D. Ropers-Huilman" <brian at ropers-huilman.net> wrote: On 4/3/07, Jon Schewe  wrote:
> Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
> mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
> outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".

This is a fairly common practice to prevent you from using mail
servers that are not their own. One easy solution is to setup your MTA
to listen on another port (I've used 2525) or to send via SSL/TLS as
they never think to block 465.

-- 
Brian D. Ropers-Huilman, Director
Systems Administration and Technical Operations
Supercomputing Institute                           

599 Walter Library                                   +1 612-626-5948 (V)
117 Pleasant Street S.E.                             +1 612-624-8861 (F)
University of Minnesota                               Twin Cities Campus
Minneapolis, MN 55455-0255                       http://www.msi.umn.edu/

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



--- 
Wayne Johnson,                         | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003                         | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis

 
---------------------------------
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels 
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
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From amazingpowersofobservation at comcast.net  Wed Apr  4 09:36:01 2007
From: amazingpowersofobservation at comcast.net (amazing)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 09:36:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4613B7D1.9000300@comcast.net>

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From wdtj at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  4 09:58:09 2007
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:58:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] consulting rates?
In-Reply-To: <694fa1450704031848w75bfde39mab703be4bde2f0b7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070404145809.70927.qmail@web53811.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

What I did was take what I was making as a full time developer, add in 7.5% for the self employment taxes, Another 6% for vacation/sick and then a fixed monthly charge for insurance, etc if you need to.  Then split this all up to an hourly charge.
 
 Remember that there is always down time between contracts, so short term contracts need to charge more for the between the gaps overhead.
 
 I was charging $72/hr for short term and $60 long term YMMV.

At one point I was working for a contract house (at $30/hr + benefits) and I later found out the contract house was charging the client $75/hr.  They were making a VERY nice profit on my labor.

Dave Dash <dave.dash at gmail.com> wrote: I've seen people charge anywhere from $25-100/hr for various computer related consulting.  Unfortunately nobody likes to share how much they charge as it tends to be a not for public consumption.  

If I weren't already doing some consulting (albeit on the side), I'd pick a number between $25-100 that is more than what I'd be making at a similar full time or even contract gig (and you can call recruiters to find those out).  Then just keep to that.  But really the rate doesn't matter so much as the quality of service.... of course, I'm not the small business owner cutting you the check, so what do I know. 

-d

On 4/3/07, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote: Guys,

What are some good resources on consulting rates?  I'm talking to a
small business owner about Linux support and consulting for their shop.
Mainly remote troubleshooting, with bulk work during weekends, if 
need be.

Thanks,
florin

--
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163

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_______________________________________________ 
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 





-- 
Dave Dash
612.670.0621
Discover your favorite restaurant: reviewsby.us
gtalk: dave.dash _______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



--- 
Wayne Johnson,                         | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003                         | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis

 
---------------------------------
8:00? 8:25? 8:40?  Find a flick in no time
 with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
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From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Wed Apr  4 10:40:06 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Review)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 10:40:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Review
Message-ID: <200704041540.l34Fe6I19363@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Review 

Category: Training and Certifications

Subject: Linux Training Promotion

Collier computing is currently running a Linux Training Promotion. The Promotion details are; purchase one class at retail price and get the second class of equal or lesser value at half price.

The Linux Training Promotion is effective from 4/3/07 to 6/30/07.

To register for a class and take advantage of the Linux Training Promotion or if you have additional question about the promotion, please contact Collier Computing Education group and ask for Sara Ross at 651-631-2325 Extension 107 or Tim Dailey at 612-384-9955.

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/reviews/index.cgi



From ron.e.nelson at gmail.com  Wed Apr  4 11:08:46 2007
From: ron.e.nelson at gmail.com (Ron Nelson)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:08:46 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
Message-ID: <be48c3340704040908k4844db82jecd924a7eff54cab@mail.gmail.com>

I was blocked last week, so moved my SMTP to google hosting.  Free,
and good enough (for my use).  I'm still hosting my web sites at home
though.  This should also get me off of (most) SMTP blacklists.

Ron

On 4/3/07, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:
> Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
> mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
> outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
> Help Jen and I fight cancer by donating to the Leukemia & Lymphomia
> Society
> Here's our website: http://www.active.com/donate/tntmn/tntmnJSchewe
> If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
> signature.
> See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>


-- 
http://ronspace.org/


From jwhitenews at gmail.com  Wed Apr  4 11:20:10 2007
From: jwhitenews at gmail.com (Jeremy White)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:20:10 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] ps question
Message-ID: <7454a0c30704040920j61c60a3at1d427afe3c1cdc08@mail.gmail.com>

I am looking for an explanation of what the "[,]" mean in the screen output
of the application ps.

Thanks

Jeremy
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From brockn at gmail.com  Wed Apr  4 11:37:50 2007
From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:37:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] ps question
In-Reply-To: <7454a0c30704040920j61c60a3at1d427afe3c1cdc08@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7454a0c30704040920j61c60a3at1d427afe3c1cdc08@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <741dcbb80704040937j321d472bq87c4b6d9226f17ee@mail.gmail.com>

What options do you use to get that output?

On 4/4/07, Jeremy White <jwhitenews at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am looking for an explanation of what the "[,]" mean in the screen output
> of the application ps.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jeremy
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>


-- 
http://free-sailboat-listings.com
http://spamdefeator.com


From florin at iucha.net  Wed Apr  4 11:42:13 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:42:13 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] ps question
In-Reply-To: <7454a0c30704040920j61c60a3at1d427afe3c1cdc08@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7454a0c30704040920j61c60a3at1d427afe3c1cdc08@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070404164213.GO7284@iucha.net>

On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 04:20:10PM +0000, Jeremy White wrote:
> I am looking for an explanation of what the "[,]" mean in the screen output
> of the application ps.

Jeremy,

I don't remember seeing a "[,]" in the ps output.  Can you give a
screen snapshot including the ps command line itself?  You can blind
any sensitive data.

florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com  Wed Apr  4 11:48:33 2007
From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:48:33 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <914f813c0704040948y6efb10f0qc9c41a1042f80bc4@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/3/07, Brian D. Ropers-Huilman <brian at ropers-huilman.net> wrote:
> On 4/3/07, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:
> > Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
> > mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
> > outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".
>
> This is a fairly common practice to prevent you from using mail
> servers that are not their own. One easy solution is to setup your MTA
> to listen on another port (I've used 2525) or to send via SSL/TLS as
> they never think to block 465.

Well, he said outgoing. The "proper" way to do this is to configure
your MTA to relay your mail to your comcast SMTP server, and
everything will work just great. You can still use SSL/TLS, but that
only fixes stuff for incoming. And IIRC, Comcast shouldn't block
25/tcp into your server, so it should not interfere with receiving (or
sending from outside your LAN).

-jth


From jwhitenews at gmail.com  Wed Apr  4 11:53:44 2007
From: jwhitenews at gmail.com (Jeremy White)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:53:44 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] ps question
In-Reply-To: <20070404164213.GO7284@iucha.net>
References: <7454a0c30704040920j61c60a3at1d427afe3c1cdc08@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070404164213.GO7284@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <7454a0c30704040953v4fecf746vc6dc93a189f71988@mail.gmail.com>

UID        PID  PPID  C STIME TTY          TIME CMD
root         1     0  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 init [2]
root         2     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [keventd]
root         3     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [ksoftirqd_CPU0]
root         4     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [kswapd]
root         5     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [bdflush]
root         6     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [kupdated]
root        18     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [scsi_eh_0]
root        19     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [scsi_eh_1]
root        49     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:02 [kjournald]
root       350     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 udevd
root       467     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [khubd]


On 4/4/07, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 04:20:10PM +0000, Jeremy White wrote:
> > I am looking for an explanation of what the "[,]" mean in the screen
> output
> > of the application ps.
>
> Jeremy,
>
> I don't remember seeing a "[,]" in the ps output.  Can you give a
> screen snapshot including the ps command line itself?  You can blind
> any sensitive data.
>
> florin
>
> --
> Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
>       http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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> WX78jfrl2kGe9h1j5T+Fsn4=
> =HKUk
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From brockn at gmail.com  Wed Apr  4 11:58:15 2007
From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:58:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] ps question
In-Reply-To: <7454a0c30704040950g7cf15895k15457186493f5785@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7454a0c30704040920j61c60a3at1d427afe3c1cdc08@mail.gmail.com>
	<741dcbb80704040937j321d472bq87c4b6d9226f17ee@mail.gmail.com>
	<7454a0c30704040950g7cf15895k15457186493f5785@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <741dcbb80704040958n63c55b1cwf2c6131df04f5121@mail.gmail.com>

Ahh you mean, [something].... Not sure why ps does that.

Do you mean defunct?  If a process is defunct, it says defunct next to it.

Brock

On 4/4/07, Jeremy White <jwhitenews at gmail.com> wrote:
> here is a screen shot:
>
> UID        PID  PPID  C STIME TTY          TIME CMD
> root         1     0  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 init [2]
> root         2     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [keventd]
> root         3     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [ksoftirqd_CPU0]
> root         4     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [kswapd]
> root         5     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [bdflush]
> root         6     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [kupdated]
> root        18     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [scsi_eh_0]
> root        19     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [scsi_eh_1]
> root        49     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:02 [kjournald]
> root       350     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 udevd
> root       467     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [khubd]
>
> The reason that I asking is someone I work with says that the brackets mean
> the processes are orphaned.  There is noway the brackets mean that.  Thanks
> for your help.
>
> On 4/4/07, Brock Noland <brockn at gmail.com> wrote:
> > What options do you use to get that output?
> >
> > On 4/4/07, Jeremy White <jwhitenews at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I am looking for an explanation of what the "[,]" mean in the screen
> output
> > > of the application ps.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Jeremy
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://free-sailboat-listings.com
> > http://spamdefeator.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
>
>


-- 
http://free-sailboat-listings.com
http://spamdefeator.com


From jpschewe at mtu.net  Wed Apr  4 12:06:39 2007
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:06:39 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <914f813c0704040948y6efb10f0qc9c41a1042f80bc4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>
	<914f813c0704040948y6efb10f0qc9c41a1042f80bc4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1175706399.7493.170.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>

On Wed, 2007-04-04 at 11:48 -0500, John T. Hoffoss wrote:
> On 4/3/07, Brian D. Ropers-Huilman <brian at ropers-huilman.net> wrote:
> > On 4/3/07, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:
> > > Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
> > > mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
> > > outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".
> >
> > This is a fairly common practice to prevent you from using mail
> > servers that are not their own. One easy solution is to setup your MTA
> > to listen on another port (I've used 2525) or to send via SSL/TLS as
> > they never think to block 465.
> 
> Well, he said outgoing. The "proper" way to do this is to configure
> your MTA to relay your mail to your comcast SMTP server, and
> everything will work just great. You can still use SSL/TLS, but that
> only fixes stuff for incoming. And IIRC, Comcast shouldn't block
> 25/tcp into your server, so it should not interfere with receiving (or
> sending from outside your LAN).

I think that's what got me into trouble in the first place as comcast
was seeing a lot of mail traffic going through their server because I'm
the backup MX for mtu.net.  They are blocking all traffic both to and
from port 25 on my machine.


________________________________________________________________________

Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
Help Jen and I fight cancer by donating to the Leukemia & Lymphomia
Society
Here's our website: http://www.active.com/donate/tntmn/tntmnJSchewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature.
See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.
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From florin at iucha.net  Wed Apr  4 12:11:14 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 12:11:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] ps question
In-Reply-To: <7454a0c30704040953v4fecf746vc6dc93a189f71988@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7454a0c30704040920j61c60a3at1d427afe3c1cdc08@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070404164213.GO7284@iucha.net>
	<7454a0c30704040953v4fecf746vc6dc93a189f71988@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070404171114.GP7284@iucha.net>

On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 04:53:44PM +0000, Jeremy White wrote:
> UID        PID  PPID  C STIME TTY          TIME CMD
> root         1     0  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 init [2]
> root         2     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [keventd]
> root         3     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [ksoftirqd_CPU0]
> root         4     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [kswapd]
> root         5     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [bdflush]
> root         6     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [kupdated]
> root        18     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [scsi_eh_0]
> root        19     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [scsi_eh_1]
> root        49     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:02 [kjournald]
> root       350     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 udevd
> root       467     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [khubd]

Oh, _those_ brackets.  Those processes are kernel threads.

florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From jonathan.kline at isaidno.net  Wed Apr  4 12:08:14 2007
From: jonathan.kline at isaidno.net (Jonathan Kline)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:08:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] ps question
In-Reply-To: <7454a0c30704040953v4fecf746vc6dc93a189f71988@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7454a0c30704040920j61c60a3at1d427afe3c1cdc08@mail.gmail.com>	<20070404164213.GO7284@iucha.net>
	<7454a0c30704040953v4fecf746vc6dc93a189f71988@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4613DB7E.5040004@isaidno.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Kernel Threads.

Jeremy White wrote:
> UID        PID  PPID  C STIME TTY          TIME CMD
> root         1     0  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 init [2]
> root         2     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [keventd]
> root         3     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [ksoftirqd_CPU0]
> root         4     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [kswapd]
> root         5     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [bdflush]
> root         6     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [kupdated]
> root        18     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [scsi_eh_0]
> root        19     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [scsi_eh_1]
> root        49     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:02 [kjournald]
> root       350     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 udevd
> root       467     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [khubd]
> 
> 
> On 4/4/07, *Florin Iucha* <florin at iucha.net <mailto:florin at iucha.net>>
> wrote:
> 
>     On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 04:20:10PM +0000, Jeremy White wrote:
>     > I am looking for an explanation of what the "[,]" mean in the
>     screen output
>     > of the application ps.
> 
>     Jeremy,
> 
>     I don't remember seeing a "[,]" in the ps output.  Can you give a
>     screen snapshot including the ps command line itself?  You can blind
>     any sensitive data.
> 
>     florin
> 
>     --
>     Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
>            http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
> 
>     -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>     Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
> 
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>     WX78jfrl2kGe9h1j5T+Fsn4=
>     =HKUk
>     -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
>     _______________________________________________
>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From wdtj at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  4 12:16:38 2007
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 10:16:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] ps question
In-Reply-To: <7454a0c30704040920j61c60a3at1d427afe3c1cdc08@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070404171638.95791.qmail@web53801.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

That's a starbase 8{)>

(most of you are too young to remember).

Jeremy White <jwhitenews at gmail.com> wrote: I am looking for an explanation of what the "[,]" mean in the screen output of the application ps.
 
 Thanks
 
 Jeremy
 _______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



--- 
Wayne Johnson,                         | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003                         | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis

 
---------------------------------
The fish are biting.
 Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
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From swaite at sbn-services.com  Wed Apr  4 12:54:46 2007
From: swaite at sbn-services.com (Sean Waite)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:54:46 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <1175706399.7493.170.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>
	<914f813c0704040948y6efb10f0qc9c41a1042f80bc4@mail.gmail.com>
	<1175706399.7493.170.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F200704041254.AA54460035@sbn-services.com>

I was always under the impression anyways that ISPs like Comcast did 
not allow any servers to be run period.

Ironically I started using my own e-mail server way back when 
Mediaone/RoadRunner/AT&T/Comcast kept changing ownership so often I 
could not rely on having an e-mail address remain current for more than a 
year. I did get contacted at one point from I believe AT&T asking me if 
I was running a server, and if so to inform me I was breaking the TOS. Never 


responded back, and they were soon sold to Comcast or whoever after. In my 
opinion, if they did not keep changing the *#&@ domain name for e-mail 
so often, I am sure a few would not bother to run their own e-mail.

I think the lesson of the story is services like 

Comcast are just not reliable for anything. I know Comcast is one company 
that reportedly will monitor bandwidth, and if yours is excessive they will 
contact you on this, which kind of defeats the purpose of broadband in my 
opinion. Especially with the cities doing their own wireless shortly.



-----Original Message-----

From: Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net>

To: "John T. Hoffoss" <john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com>

Cc: "tclug-list at mn-linux.org" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:06:39 -0500

Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
On Wed, 2007-04-04 at 11:48 -0500, John T. Hoffoss wrote:

> On 4/3/07, Brian D. Ropers-Huilman <brian at ropers-huilman.net> 
wrote:

> > On 4/3/07, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:

> > > Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no 
longer able to send

> > > mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is 
blocking all

> > > outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".

> >

> > This is a fairly common practice to prevent you from using mail



> > servers that are not their own. One easy solution is to setup your 

MTA

> > to listen on another port (I've used 2525) or to send via SSL/TLS 
as

> > they never think to block 465.

> 

> Well, he said outgoing. The "proper" way to do this is to configure

> your MTA to relay your mail to your comcast SMTP server, and

> everything will work just great. You can still use SSL/TLS, but that



> only fixes stuff for incoming. And IIRC, Comcast shouldn't block

> 25/tcp into your server, so it should not interfere with receiving 
(or

> sending from outside your LAN).



I think that's what got me into trouble in the first place as comcast

was seeing a lot of mail traffic going through their server because I'm

the backup MX for mtu.net.  They are blocking all traffic both to 
and

from port 25 on my machine.





________________________________________________________________________



Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe [http://mtu.net/%7Ejpschewe]

Help Jen and I fight cancer by donating to the Leukemia & Lymphomia

Society

Here's our website: http://www.active.com/donate/tntmn/tntmnJSchewe 
[http://www.active.com/donate/tntmn/tntmnJSchewe]

If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital

signature.

See http://www.gnupg.org [http://www.gnupg.org/] 
for more information.
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From erikerik at gmail.com  Wed Apr  4 12:59:11 2007
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 12:59:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <WorldClient-F200704041254.AA54460035@sbn-services.com>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>
	<914f813c0704040948y6efb10f0qc9c41a1042f80bc4@mail.gmail.com>
	<1175706399.7493.170.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<WorldClient-F200704041254.AA54460035@sbn-services.com>
Message-ID: <fc40260f0704041059x12a5144cy295283e18f6cb20d@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/4/07, Sean Waite <swaite at sbn-services.com> wrote:
>
> which kind of defeats the purpose of broadband in my opinion. Especially
> with the cities doing their own wireless shortly.

Not to thread-jack, but what's the current status of the municipal
wifi project anyway?

-erik


From brian at ropers-huilman.net  Wed Apr  4 13:10:50 2007
From: brian at ropers-huilman.net (Brian D. Ropers-Huilman)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 13:10:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <914f813c0704040948y6efb10f0qc9c41a1042f80bc4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>
	<914f813c0704040948y6efb10f0qc9c41a1042f80bc4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f0e11c480704041110k73a23618vfd374eafe149b2d2@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/4/07, John T. Hoffoss <john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 4/3/07, Brian D. Ropers-Huilman <brian at ropers-huilman.net> wrote:
> > This is a fairly common practice to prevent you from using mail
> > servers that are not their own. One easy solution is to setup your MTA
> > to listen on another port (I've used 2525) or to send via SSL/TLS as
> > they never think to block 465.
>
> Well, he said outgoing. The "proper" way to do this is to configure
> your MTA to relay your mail to your comcast SMTP server, and
> everything will work just great. You can still use SSL/TLS, but that
> only fixes stuff for incoming. And IIRC, Comcast shouldn't block
> 25/tcp into your server, so it should not interfere with receiving (or
> sending from outside your LAN).

Yes, there is some confusion here. I was assuming he has some mail
agent trying to send a message (whether a client or an MTA). As has
been hashed out here, most ISPs only allow :25 traffic to pass to
their own servers. For many people this is just fine, but some people
want their mail to come from their own MTAs. With :25 "blocked," the
only other solution is to point to another port. For example, my
Alpine client can quite happily send mail directly through my MSI
servers via :465.

If, however, the situation is that he's running his own mail server at
home, then, yes, things are quite different. He's explained that he's
an MX for mtu.net and I do not see any clear solution to him running
an SMTP on a box in his home.

-- 
Brian D. Ropers-Huilman


From wdtj at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  4 13:23:30 2007
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:23:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <fc40260f0704041059x12a5144cy295283e18f6cb20d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070404182330.83444.qmail@web53802.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

http://www.usinternet.com/wireless/
http://www.usinternet.com/pdf/WirelessMapTimeline_Jan07.pdf

According to the pdf file, I have to wait till August 30th.

Erik Anderson <erikerik at gmail.com> wrote: On 4/4/07, Sean Waite  wrote:
>
> which kind of defeats the purpose of broadband in my opinion. Especially
> with the cities doing their own wireless shortly.

Not to thread-jack, but what's the current status of the municipal
wifi project anyway?

-erik

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



--- 
Wayne Johnson,                         | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003                         | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis

 
---------------------------------
Never miss an email again!
Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.
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From jpschewe at mtu.net  Wed Apr  4 13:49:18 2007
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:49:18 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <f0e11c480704041110k73a23618vfd374eafe149b2d2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>
	<914f813c0704040948y6efb10f0qc9c41a1042f80bc4@mail.gmail.com>
	<f0e11c480704041110k73a23618vfd374eafe149b2d2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1175712558.7493.188.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>

On Wed, 2007-04-04 at 13:10 -0500, Brian D. Ropers-Huilman wrote:
> On 4/4/07, John T. Hoffoss <john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 4/3/07, Brian D. Ropers-Huilman <brian at ropers-huilman.net> wrote:
> > > This is a fairly common practice to prevent you from using mail
> > > servers that are not their own. One easy solution is to setup your MTA
> > > to listen on another port (I've used 2525) or to send via SSL/TLS as
> > > they never think to block 465.
> >
> > Well, he said outgoing. The "proper" way to do this is to configure
> > your MTA to relay your mail to your comcast SMTP server, and
> > everything will work just great. You can still use SSL/TLS, but that
> > only fixes stuff for incoming. And IIRC, Comcast shouldn't block
> > 25/tcp into your server, so it should not interfere with receiving (or
> > sending from outside your LAN).
> 
> Yes, there is some confusion here. I was assuming he has some mail
> agent trying to send a message (whether a client or an MTA). As has
> been hashed out here, most ISPs only allow :25 traffic to pass to
> their own servers. For many people this is just fine, but some people
> want their mail to come from their own MTAs. With :25 "blocked," the
> only other solution is to point to another port. For example, my
> Alpine client can quite happily send mail directly through my MSI
> servers via :465.
Yes, one reason for needing to send mail through another outside server
are mailman lists that check the from and if it doesn't match up, reject
the message.  Sending all of my mail through smtp.comcast.net would
cause this problem.  Allowing my mailserver to accept mail messages on
another port has allowed me to get around this problem.  Is it just the
case that now everyone that uses mailing lists sends mail through the
ISP's servers (and thus uses that address for subscription) or uses some
type of web based email?  This assumes that the population that would
like to use an alternate email address and doesn't run their own
mailserver is somewhat large.

> If, however, the situation is that he's running his own mail server at
> home, then, yes, things are quite different. He's explained that he's
> an MX for mtu.net and I do not see any clear solution to him running
> an SMTP on a box in his home.
This is the second problem.  There hasn't been enough traffic to draw
attention to myself, probably because I was using mtu.net as my smart
host.  Now that I switched it to help on some other issues comcast has
noticed and I need to rethink where to host the secondary MX.  My
ability to send email apparently has been collateral damage. 


________________________________________________________________________

Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
Help Jen and I fight cancer by donating to the Leukemia & Lymphomia
Society
Here's our website: http://www.active.com/donate/tntmn/tntmnJSchewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature.
See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.
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From jeff at digitalguy.net  Wed Apr  4 15:14:51 2007
From: jeff at digitalguy.net (Jeffrey Lehman)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 15:14:51 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <WorldClient-F200704041254.AA54460035@sbn-services.com>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>	<f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>	<914f813c0704040948y6efb10f0qc9c41a1042f80bc4@mail.gmail.com>	<1175706399.7493.170.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<WorldClient-F200704041254.AA54460035@sbn-services.com>
Message-ID: <4614073B.2030001@digitalguy.net>

Sean Waite wrote:
> I think the lesson of the story is services like Comcast are just not 
> reliable for anything. I know Comcast is one company that reportedly 
> will monitor bandwidth, and if yours is excessive they will contact 
> you on this, which kind of defeats the purpose of broadband in my 
> opinion. Especially with the cities doing their own wireless shortly.
I've had no problems whatsoever with my Comcast service and I've been 
with them for about 5 years now.  I've been at my current residence for 
over 2 years and my IP has not changed once!  I run several services 
(web,mail,ssh,etc) and haven't been notified by them once, although I 
think running "servers" is against their TOS.

Jeff


From nate at refried.org  Wed Apr  4 16:25:38 2007
From: nate at refried.org (Nate Straz)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:25:38 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <4614073B.2030001@digitalguy.net>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>
	<914f813c0704040948y6efb10f0qc9c41a1042f80bc4@mail.gmail.com>
	<1175706399.7493.170.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<WorldClient-F200704041254.AA54460035@sbn-services.com>
	<4614073B.2030001@digitalguy.net>
Message-ID: <20070404212538.GA10297@refried.org>

On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 03:14:51PM -0500, Jeffrey Lehman wrote:
> Sean Waite wrote:
> > I think the lesson of the story is services like Comcast are just not 
> > reliable for anything. I know Comcast is one company that reportedly 
> > will monitor bandwidth, and if yours is excessive they will contact 
> > you on this, which kind of defeats the purpose of broadband in my 
> > opinion. Especially with the cities doing their own wireless shortly.
> I've had no problems whatsoever with my Comcast service and I've been 
> with them for about 5 years now.  I've been at my current residence for 
> over 2 years and my IP has not changed once!  I run several services 
> (web,mail,ssh,etc) and haven't been notified by them once, although I 
> think running "servers" is against their TOS.

I remember people telling me that when I was on Comcast years ago.  They
would always send me a link to the FAQ that said that, yet there were no
links _to_ that page on their web site.  There was language in the AUP
stating that as long as running the services didn't affect the quality
of service of other customers, it was okay.

That was back around the MediaOne to AT&T Broadband transition.  I'm
happily on DSL w/ Visi now.</plug>

Nate


From florin at iucha.net  Wed Apr  4 16:56:25 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:56:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] qemu + tap, one way only?
Message-ID: <20070404215625.GQ7284@iucha.net>

Guys,

I am trying to get a network going between the host and a qemu guest,
using the tap device.  I can ping from guest to host and from host to
guest, but I can only ssh from guest to host!  Ssh from host to guest
fails with

   # ssh 172.20.0.10
   ssh: connect to host 172.20.0.10 port 22: No route to host
   # ping 172.20.0.10
   PING 172.20.0.10 (172.20.0.10) 56(84) bytes of data.
   64 bytes from 172.20.0.10: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.625 ms
   64 bytes from 172.20.0.10: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.447 ms
   64 bytes from 172.20.0.10: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.501 ms

   # route -n
   Kernel IP routing table
   Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
   aa.bb.cc.0      0.0.0.0         255.255.254.0   U     0      0        0 eth0
   169.254.0.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.0.0     U     1000   0        0 eth0
   172.20.0.0      0.0.0.0         255.255.0.0     U     0      0        0 tap0
   0.0.0.0         aa.bb.cc.1      0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 eth0
   # ifconfig tap0
   tap0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr FA:4B:BC:51:B4:50  
             inet addr:172.20.0.1  Bcast:172.20.255.255  Mask:255.255.0.0

On the guest:

   # ping 172.20.0.1
   PING 172.20.0.1 (172.20.0.1) 56(84) bytes of data.
   64 bytes from 172.20.0.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.625 ms
   64 bytes from 172.20.0.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.447 ms
   64 bytes from 172.20.0.1: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.501 ms

   # route -n
   Kernel IP routing table
   Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
   172.20.0.0      0.0.0.0         255.255.0.0     U     0      0        0 eth0
   0.0.0.0         172.20.0.1      0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 eth0

The 172.20.0.x addresses are what the tapX devices are using by default. 
This is on Ubuntu 7.04 with the uml-utilities package.

Thanks,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From robbyt at robbyt.net  Wed Apr  4 17:26:55 2007
From: robbyt at robbyt.net (Rob Terhaar)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 17:26:55 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] consulting rates?
In-Reply-To: <20070404145809.70927.qmail@web53811.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <694fa1450704031848w75bfde39mab703be4bde2f0b7@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070404145809.70927.qmail@web53811.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1f663090704041526v7a7e3436q853bf2be0f4d2f74@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/4/07, Wayne Johnson <wdtj at yahoo.com> wrote:
> What I did was take what I was making as a full time developer, add in 7.5%
> for the self employment taxes, Another 6% for vacation/sick and then a fixed
> monthly charge for insurance, etc if you need to.  Then split this all up to
> an hourly charge.
>
>  Remember that there is always down time between contracts, so short term
> contracts need to charge more for the between the gaps overhead.
>
>  I was charging $72/hr for short term and $60 long term YMMV.
>
> At one point I was working for a contract house (at $30/hr + benefits) and I
> later found out the contract house was charging the client $75/hr.  They
> were making a VERY nice profit on my labor.

one thing that you have to understand is, that having an employee is a
lot more expensive then just paying their salary. Things like SS,
benefits, etc.. aren't free- and your employer has to pay quite a bit
more to the State to have you on as a full-time employee.

If they were paying you $30/hr, i bet your overall cost to them was
closer to $45-50/hr


From marc at e-skinner.net  Wed Apr  4 20:10:30 2007
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 20:10:30 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] consulting rates?
In-Reply-To: <1f663090704041526v7a7e3436q853bf2be0f4d2f74@mail.gmail.com>
References: <694fa1450704031848w75bfde39mab703be4bde2f0b7@mail.gmail.com>	<20070404145809.70927.qmail@web53811.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<1f663090704041526v7a7e3436q853bf2be0f4d2f74@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46144C86.9020109@e-skinner.net>

i have done a lot of consulting on the side for the past 4 years, and 
have always been able to charge $150 an hour.  not sure if that is my 
RHCE defending that rate or if i've just gotten lucky.  i think it 
depends a lot on the "size" of the client. 

Rob Terhaar wrote:
> On 4/4/07, Wayne Johnson <wdtj at yahoo.com> wrote:
>   
>> What I did was take what I was making as a full time developer, add in 7.5%
>> for the self employment taxes, Another 6% for vacation/sick and then a fixed
>> monthly charge for insurance, etc if you need to.  Then split this all up to
>> an hourly charge.
>>
>>  Remember that there is always down time between contracts, so short term
>> contracts need to charge more for the between the gaps overhead.
>>
>>  I was charging $72/hr for short term and $60 long term YMMV.
>>
>> At one point I was working for a contract house (at $30/hr + benefits) and I
>> later found out the contract house was charging the client $75/hr.  They
>> were making a VERY nice profit on my labor.
>>     
>
> one thing that you have to understand is, that having an employee is a
> lot more expensive then just paying their salary. Things like SS,
> benefits, etc.. aren't free- and your employer has to pay quite a bit
> more to the State to have you on as a full-time employee.
>
> If they were paying you $30/hr, i bet your overall cost to them was
> closer to $45-50/hr
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Wed Apr  4 21:25:29 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 21:25:29 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] consulting rates?
In-Reply-To: <1f663090704041526v7a7e3436q853bf2be0f4d2f74@mail.gmail.com>
References: <694fa1450704031848w75bfde39mab703be4bde2f0b7@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070404145809.70927.qmail@web53811.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<1f663090704041526v7a7e3436q853bf2be0f4d2f74@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0704042119590.26674@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Wed, 4 Apr 2007, Rob Terhaar wrote:

> On 4/4/07, Wayne Johnson <wdtj at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> At one point I was working for a contract house (at $30/hr + benefits) 
>> and I later found out the contract house was charging the client 
>> $75/hr.  They were making a VERY nice profit on my labor.
>
> one thing that you have to understand is, that having an employee is a 
> lot more expensive then just paying their salary. Things like SS, 
> benefits, etc.. aren't free- and your employer has to pay quite a bit 
> more to the State to have you on as a full-time employee.
>
> If they were paying you $30/hr, i bet your overall cost to them was 
> closer to $45-50/hr


At the U, for most employees, we add about 1/3 to the salary to get the 
total cost.  So $30/hr salary would cost $40/hr to a research grant.

No matter what the truth is, we all agree that the contract house had a 
very nice profit margin.

Mike


From florin at iucha.net  Thu Apr  5 09:46:33 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 09:46:33 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] qemu + tap, one way only?
In-Reply-To: <20070404215625.GQ7284@iucha.net>
References: <20070404215625.GQ7284@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <20070405144632.GT7284@iucha.net>

On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 04:56:25PM -0500, Florin Iucha wrote:
> I am trying to get a network going between the host and a qemu guest,
> using the tap device.  I can ping from guest to host and from host to
> guest, but I can only ssh from guest to host!  Ssh from host to guest
> fails with
> 
>    # ssh 172.20.0.10
>    ssh: connect to host 172.20.0.10 port 22: No route to host

D'oh!

There was a firewall in the guest.  But the error message sure was
confusing...

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From john.meier at gmail.com  Thu Apr  5 11:44:02 2007
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 11:44:02 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perhaps OT - Laptop choice
Message-ID: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all-

Considering getting a new laptop.  I have a very small business with a
handful of clients -  windows some Mac end users and linux/windows
servers.  My old dell is getting to be a PIA - it weighs a ton, it's
slow, it's loud, slight pressure on the palm rest causes mouse/touch
pad to go nuts sometimes.

As I'd like to be able to switch to any OS depending on client, I am
leaning toward a Mac book pro - 17 inch (and will probably get the max
amount of memory right off the bat).  I would use bootcamp or
Parallels Desktop for Mac for OS selection - Parallels Desktop really
caught my eye....

Now the pricing on these Mac books really is holding me back - I can
swing the price now but on the flip side, I can get a PC laptop and a
couple of years later get another all  for less than the 1 Mac -
sigh...

Wondering if anyone else uses a Mac for businessy type stuff and what
they like and don't like.

Thanks


From wilson at visi.com  Thu Apr  5 12:11:11 2007
From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 12:11:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perhaps OT - Laptop choice
In-Reply-To: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1B1D9607-5490-466A-B751-4949ADA41A51@visi.com>

On Apr 5, 2007, at 11:44 AM, John Meier wrote:

> As I'd like to be able to switch to any OS depending on client, I am
> leaning toward a Mac book pro - 17 inch (and will probably get the max
> amount of memory right off the bat).  I would use bootcamp or
> Parallels Desktop for Mac for OS selection - Parallels Desktop really
> caught my eye....

I use a 15" MacBook Pro all the time and the only thing I'll add is  
that I prefer Parallels to BootCamp. If you don't need 3D  
acceleration (I'm not a gamer) then Parallels will do everything you  
need. And the Parallels developers have been talking about improving  
the 3D performance in future versions.

My MBP runs Ubuntu very well. I have 2 GB RAM and I've even had OS X,  
Windows XP, and Ubuntu all running simultaneously just for the heck  
of it. Switch into full-screen mode and you'd be hard-pressed to  
notice that you're running in a VM.

-Tim

-- 
Tim Wilson, The Savvy Technologist
Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA
Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy
mailto: wilson at visi.com  aim: tis270  blog and podcast: http:// 
technosavvy.org


From tclug at beitsahour.net  Thu Apr  5 12:26:02 2007
From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar)
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 12:26:02 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perhaps OT - Laptop choice
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cone.1175793962.400465.29683.1001@home>

John Meier writes:

> As I'd like to be able to switch to any OS depending on client, I am
> leaning toward a Mac book pro - 17 inch (and will probably get the max
> amount of memory right off the bat).  I would use bootcamp or
> Parallels Desktop for Mac for OS selection - Parallels Desktop really
> caught my eye....

Go for it,

> Now the pricing on these Mac books really is holding me back - I can
> swing the price now but on the flip side, I can get a PC laptop and a
> couple of years later get another all  for less than the 1 Mac -
> sigh...

comparing a MacBook Pro with a Dell Inspiron is not a valid comparison, a 
Dell Latitude D820(because it has a 15" screen) with a Core2 Duo(2.16 GHz), 
1GB RAM, 120GB HDD, XP Pro SP2(or Vista) DVD writer and so forth comes to 
about $2k, which is the same for a MBP.

So, when comparing laptops it is best to compare similar offerings.

> Wondering if anyone else uses a Mac for businessy type stuff and what
> they like and don't like.

I use it for businessy stuff, at first i had it partitioned 3 ways intending 
to install Linux and Windows XP on it. Over time i gave up on installing 
windows, i really have no need to and if i ever do then there is always 
parallels or VNC.

And i gave up on installing Linux on it as well, between iterm and 
darwin-ports there really is no need for it. If i ever need to run a 
Linux application there is always X forwarding.

What i dont like though is that sometimes, just sometimes it does not wake 
up from sleep properly, i can see the mouse curser but the screen remains 
dim. I've found that closing the lid, waiting a couple of seconds and 
openings it again fixes it but it is still annoying. In my research and 
experimentation i've found that it is related to the encrypted home 
directories and the requirement to enter a password when waking up.


From benjamin.gramlich at gmail.com  Thu Apr  5 12:35:15 2007
From: benjamin.gramlich at gmail.com (Benjamin Gramlich)
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 12:35:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perhaps OT - Laptop choice
In-Reply-To: <1175794252.7602.7.camel@desktop>
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
	<1B1D9607-5490-466A-B751-4949ADA41A51@visi.com>
	<1175794252.7602.7.camel@desktop>
Message-ID: <1175794515.7602.9.camel@desktop>

On Thu, 2007-04-05 at 12:30 -0500, Benjamin Gramlich wrote:
> Personally, I would stay away from Macbooks. My iBook G4 just went dead,
> and I had already had major work done on it a year ago. A friend of mine
> has had to have her iBook replaced with a Macbook and has now had to
> return that Macbook to apple for repairs. Opening up a macintosh laptop
> you see shoddy workmanship and wires that have cut sheathing. But this
> is just anecdotal experience, from a couple of users. 
> 
> Since my iBook just died, I, too, am in the market for a laptop. I'm
> pretty convinced that Sony is the way to go. I've owned a Vaio before
> and it never caused me any problems. Though I am still researching the
> issue.
> 
> Benjamin
> 
> On Thu, 2007-04-05 at 12:11 -0500, Tim Wilson wrote:
> > On Apr 5, 2007, at 11:44 AM, John Meier wrote:
> > 
> > > As I'd like to be able to switch to any OS depending on client, I am
> > > leaning toward a Mac book pro - 17 inch (and will probably get the max
> > > amount of memory right off the bat).  I would use bootcamp or
> > > Parallels Desktop for Mac for OS selection - Parallels Desktop really
> > > caught my eye....
> > 
> > I use a 15" MacBook Pro all the time and the only thing I'll add is  
> > that I prefer Parallels to BootCamp. If you don't need 3D  
> > acceleration (I'm not a gamer) then Parallels will do everything you  
> > need. And the Parallels developers have been talking about improving  
> > the 3D performance in future versions.
> > 
> > My MBP runs Ubuntu very well. I have 2 GB RAM and I've even had OS X,  
> > Windows XP, and Ubuntu all running simultaneously just for the heck  
> > of it. Switch into full-screen mode and you'd be hard-pressed to  
> > notice that you're running in a VM.
> > 
> > -Tim
> > 



From florin at iucha.net  Thu Apr  5 12:51:57 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 12:51:57 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perhaps OT - Laptop choice
In-Reply-To: <1175794515.7602.9.camel@desktop>
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
	<1B1D9607-5490-466A-B751-4949ADA41A51@visi.com>
	<1175794252.7602.7.camel@desktop> <1175794515.7602.9.camel@desktop>
Message-ID: <20070405175157.GU7284@iucha.net>

On Thu, Apr 05, 2007 at 12:35:15PM -0500, Benjamin Gramlich wrote:
> > Since my iBook just died, I, too, am in the market for a laptop. I'm
> > pretty convinced that Sony is the way to go. I've owned a Vaio before
> > and it never caused me any problems. Though I am still researching the
> > issue.

Sony is a very proprietary company and quite Linux-unfriendly (the
laptops might have hardware for which there are no drivers; the PS[23]
is a different matter).

I'm the happy owner of a Thinkpad T60 wide screen and everything worked
with Ubuntu 7.04 (Feisty Fawn) without a hitch - including suspend and
resume.  It is slightly on the heavy side, but that's what you pay for
the wide screen.  If you want light, get a 14'1 and that is one of the
lightest laptops in it's [business] class.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From rwh at visi.com  Thu Apr  5 12:57:20 2007
From: rwh at visi.com (rwh)
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 12:57:20 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perhaps OT - Laptop choice
In-Reply-To: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46153880.9040508@visi.com>

John Meier wrote:
> Hi all-
> 
> Considering getting a new laptop.  I have a very small business with a
> handful of clients -  windows some Mac end users and linux/windows
> servers.  My old dell is getting to be a PIA - it weighs a ton, it's
> slow, it's loud, slight pressure on the palm rest causes mouse/touch
> pad to go nuts sometimes.
> 
> As I'd like to be able to switch to any OS depending on client, I am
> leaning toward a Mac book pro - 17 inch (and will probably get the max
> amount of memory right off the bat).  I would use bootcamp or
> Parallels Desktop for Mac for OS selection - Parallels Desktop really
> caught my eye....
> 

I use VMWare on Windows to run Linux and on Linux to run Windows. I
think you'll find Parallels more interesting than Bootcamp.

> Now the pricing on these Mac books really is holding me back - I can
> swing the price now but on the flip side, I can get a PC laptop and a
> couple of years later get another all  for less than the 1 Mac -
> sigh...
> 

Apple has been running a lot of the MacBook Pro stuff through their
refurbished outlet which drops the price a bit. It looks like they're
knocking $500 - $800 off the 17" right now. Same warranty as new,
eligible for the service plan, etc.

You might also consider the 15". I'm using an old G4 iBook as my main
laptop (same deal on ditching the Dell) and I have monitor spanning
enabled. It links the 14" screen seamlessly with an external 19" panel.
I can live with the 14" screen when I'm away from home and the 19"
becomes the main work area when I'm home. I think the iBook can go up to
1600x1200 or better so it could drive a 24" wide screen. I would expect
that the MB and MB Pro are at least as good on the low and and much
better for the Pro level.

> Wondering if anyone else uses a Mac for businessy type stuff and what
> they like and don't like.
> 

When I ditched the Inspiron (using Ubuntu) and switched to the iBook I
wasn't sure it was up to being my main machine. After a couple of months
I find I rarely use the Dell Desktop (also running Ubuntu) except as a
backup server.

My plan was to switch to a new Intel MB Pro at the end of the summer
when Apple runs their "back to school" special and Leopard has been
release. Lately I've been leaning more towards going cheaper and
grabbing a straight Macbook and an iMac.

The other thing that's nice about the Macs is that the battery life is
actually useful. Even when it was new the Dell would rarely make it to 2
hours. The iBook routinely gets 4 hours, even with the wireless running.

> Thanks
> 

Let us know what you decide.

--rick


From benjamin.gramlich at gmail.com  Thu Apr  5 13:51:50 2007
From: benjamin.gramlich at gmail.com (Benjamin Gramlich)
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 13:51:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perhaps OT - Laptop choice
In-Reply-To: <20070405175157.GU7284@iucha.net>
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
	<1B1D9607-5490-466A-B751-4949ADA41A51@visi.com>
	<1175794252.7602.7.camel@desktop> <1175794515.7602.9.camel@desktop>
	<20070405175157.GU7284@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <1175799110.7602.12.camel@desktop>

> I'm the happy owner of a Thinkpad T60 wide screen and everything worked
> with Ubuntu 7.04 (Feisty Fawn) without a hitch - including suspend and
> resume.  It is slightly on the heavy side, but that's what you pay for
> the wide screen.  If you want light, get a 14'1 and that is one of the
> lightest laptops in it's [business] class.

Regarding the Thinkpad, have things changed now that it is being made by
Lenovo. I initially looked at Thinkpads, but I know that Lenovo only has
rights to the name for a short while. Will support end for it as well?

Thank you for your reply,

benjamin



From marc at e-skinner.net  Thu Apr  5 14:30:11 2007
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 14:30:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perhaps OT - Laptop choice
In-Reply-To: <1175799110.7602.12.camel@desktop>
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>	<1B1D9607-5490-466A-B751-4949ADA41A51@visi.com>	<1175794252.7602.7.camel@desktop>
	<1175794515.7602.9.camel@desktop>	<20070405175157.GU7284@iucha.net>
	<1175799110.7602.12.camel@desktop>
Message-ID: <46154E43.6000805@e-skinner.net>

i too have a T60 - running FC6 and RHEL 5 on it.  works great - even the 
finger print scanner :)

the thinkpads "made by lenova" look and feel just like the "made by ibm" 
models.

my coworkers use one of many thinkpad types - t60, x60, t4x.  they also 
like the mbp's as mentioned earlier.

now that novell has joined the dark side, ibm/lenova seems to be making 
sure there laptops work with RHEL/FC6, etc much better out of the box. 
if we could only get ATI to release 100% open source drivers!



Benjamin Gramlich wrote:
>> I'm the happy owner of a Thinkpad T60 wide screen and everything worked
>> with Ubuntu 7.04 (Feisty Fawn) without a hitch - including suspend and
>> resume.  It is slightly on the heavy side, but that's what you pay for
>> the wide screen.  If you want light, get a 14'1 and that is one of the
>> lightest laptops in it's [business] class.
>>     
>
> Regarding the Thinkpad, have things changed now that it is being made by
> Lenovo. I initially looked at Thinkpads, but I know that Lenovo only has
> rights to the name for a short while. Will support end for it as well?
>
> Thank you for your reply,
>
> benjamin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From benjamin.gramlich at gmail.com  Thu Apr  5 14:49:19 2007
From: benjamin.gramlich at gmail.com (Benjamin Gramlich)
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 14:49:19 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perhaps OT - Laptop choice
In-Reply-To: <46154E43.6000805@e-skinner.net>
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
	<1B1D9607-5490-466A-B751-4949ADA41A51@visi.com>
	<1175794252.7602.7.camel@desktop> <1175794515.7602.9.camel@desktop>
	<20070405175157.GU7284@iucha.net> <1175799110.7602.12.camel@desktop>
	<46154E43.6000805@e-skinner.net>
Message-ID: <1175802559.7602.17.camel@desktop>

I'm just doing some research and I came across this website that may be
of interest to some on the list:

http://system76.com/index.php/cPath/1





From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Thu Apr  5 14:57:14 2007
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 14:57:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Swapping Systems
Message-ID: <20070405145714.915a7fdb.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>

I built my parents a generic kubuntu distribution about 6 months
ago using scrapped hardware I found.  Now that decision has come to
bite me in the rear and they are having some odd problem that I
can't diagnose nor do I have the time to tinker endlessly with it.
I think it's memory related based on some log messages but memtest86
 ran overnight with no errors. So, I'm getting a nice shiny (but
basic) new system from General Nanosystems and I'm hoping that I can
basically swap in the existing system's hard drive, boot into
console, reconfigure xorg (new video card) and go.  Has anyone done
something like this and lived to tell about it?  One problem I
could see is making sure to use the same IDE channel so the drives
don't get different names.  Any other snags Ishould be aware of?  

Thanks!

Josh


From cschumann at twp-llc.com  Thu Apr  5 15:04:41 2007
From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 15:04:41 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Perhaps OT - Laptop choice
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1216.1175801475.2107.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1216.1175801475.2107.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <4408.168.86.12.2.1175803481.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com>