From steventrapp at comcast.net Tue Aug 1 04:53:23 2006 From: steventrapp at comcast.net (Steven N. Trapp) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 04:53:23 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Forwarding Red and Green LEDs Message-ID: -- < -- < References: Message-ID: <44CF39FE.80300@tcq.net> Steven N. Trapp wrote: >My LEDs are buried so badly I cannot see them [printer lights] > >Now I could use a mirror and make a periscope, but that's very bulky. > >Does anyone have a solution that would involve converting it to a pulse >that is sent down a circuit lead? Or maybe use fibreOptics so I can >see the puppy?! > Fiber optics work very well. I've seen them used in applications where LEDs are completely hidden. Kraig From steventrapp at comcast.net Tue Aug 1 07:58:59 2006 From: steventrapp at comcast.net (Steven N. Trapp) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 07:58:59 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender (fwd) Message-ID: -- < To: Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender This is the Postfix program at host atlas.snt.org. I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. For further assistance, please send mail to If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own text from the attached returned message. The Postfix program : host smtp.comcast.net[204.127.192.17] said: 550 [PERMFAIL] destination not valid within DNS (in reply to RCPT TO command) -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Steven N. Trapp" Subject: Soliloquoy (Bliss Manifesto) Not Yet ready. Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 05:03:27 -0500 (CDT) Size: 1996 Url: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060801/b4545494/attachment.eml From steventrapp at comcast.net Tue Aug 1 08:00:17 2006 From: steventrapp at comcast.net (Steven N. Trapp) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 08:00:17 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Forwarding Red and Green LEDs In-Reply-To: <44CF39FE.80300@tcq.net> References: <44CF39FE.80300@tcq.net> Message-ID: Thanks Kraig. I can now remember seeing a funny alarm clock with fibres sticking out. -- < Steven N. Trapp wrote: > > >My LEDs are buried so badly I cannot see them [printer lights] > > > >Now I could use a mirror and make a periscope, but that's very bulky. > > > >Does anyone have a solution that would involve converting it to a pulse > >that is sent down a circuit lead? Or maybe use fibreOptics so I can > >see the puppy?! > > > Fiber optics work very well. I've seen them used in applications where > LEDs are completely hidden. > > Kraig > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From auditodd at comcast.net Tue Aug 1 09:06:37 2006 From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 14:06:37 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] MythTV / home media server setup questions Message-ID: <080120061406.24614.44CF5FED000118260000602622007343640B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net> Here's the answer for your individual units in each room: http://www.hauppauge.com/html/mediamvp_datasheet.htm And here is an alternative for the server: http://www.snapstream.com/ I know someone who uses this setup because his wife couldn't stand listening to the hard drive spinning on a DVR in the living room. -- ---- ------ Todd Young -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Dave Sherman" > Hi all, > > My wife and I are going to start building a house in the next month or so. > One of the things I intend to do is run network and speaker wiring through > the walls, from a central server closet to each room. What I have in mind is > to build a MythTV media server, with the ability to send audio and/or video > out through independent channels to each room. So if my wife is in her hobby > room, she can use her laptop to access the server, and tell it to start a > specific music playlist and send it to the hobby room's speakers. Meanwhile, > I can be sitting in my den with my own laptop, and tell the server to send > my own playlist to that room's speakers, or perhaps send a TV show or movie > to the TV and speakers in that room. > > One of my design goals is to NOT require a computer in every room, except > maybe a laptop to access the server and tell it where to send the output. > I'm not sure if we need to install separate sound and video cards for each > room, or what. > > I've only just started doing some research on this, so I haven't really RTFM > yet. Just hoping to get a few pointers from those of you who have done the > same or similar. > > -- > Dave Sherman > MCSA, MCSE, CCNA > Linux: Because rebooting is for adding new hardware. -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Dave Sherman" Subject: [tclug-list] MythTV / home media server setup questions Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 17:25:54 +0000 Size: 3723 Url: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060801/1123942b/attachment.eml From steventrapp at comcast.net Tue Aug 1 10:24:52 2006 From: steventrapp at comcast.net (Steven N. Trapp) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 10:24:52 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Pretty Soon Now Message-ID: -- < what is the current lap top of choice for linux. full debian install. of course price will be a prime consideration. I plan to carry it in the truck and use mostly for mobile Ham radio communications. thanks Harv -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060801/08c958f8/attachment.htm From srcfoo at gmail.com Tue Aug 1 14:22:31 2006 From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 14:22:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux%20Users%20Group In-Reply-To: <6a470a5f0608011208m20b66e75yc030a3cedd16ebc7@mail.gmail.com> References: <6a470a5f0608011208m20b66e75yc030a3cedd16ebc7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <579c6fd30608011222p5e7b343nf40beab56fa3e0d4@mail.gmail.com> I just purchased a Dell Inspiron E1505 with a beautiful screen, 1G RAM, 60GB HDD, Bluetooth, WiFi, etc. for < $900 shipped. It's a little heavy, but seems to be made well. I installed Kubuntu 6.06 on it and it worked like a charm with very little fuss. The only thing that required some extra work was I had to run the 915resolution program to get 1400x1050. Otherwise everything is working out of the box. It's nice to have the widescreen ratio for coding and sysadmin work. -Eric On 8/1/06, Harv Nelson wrote: > what is the current lap top of choice for linux. full debian install. of > course price will be a prime consideration. I plan to carry it in the truck > and use mostly for mobile Ham radio communications. > > thanks > > Harv > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From scotjenkins at gmail.com Tue Aug 1 22:01:04 2006 From: scotjenkins at gmail.com (Scot Jenkins) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 22:01:04 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux%20Users%20Group In-Reply-To: <6a470a5f0608011208m20b66e75yc030a3cedd16ebc7@mail.gmail.com> References: <6a470a5f0608011208m20b66e75yc030a3cedd16ebc7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 8/1/06, Harv Nelson wrote: > what is the current lap top of choice for linux. full debian install. of > course price will be a prime consideration. I plan to carry it in the truck > and use mostly for mobile Ham radio communications. > > thanks > > Harv Shop ebay.com, materialsprocessing.com (surplus store) or ibm.com ("certified used equipment") for a slightly older Thinkpad. Remove the hard drive and get a CF/PCMCIA adapter and as big a CompactFlash card as you can afford. I believe you can get up to 4 GB cards now, which should be plenty for linux. I'm running a healthy Debian install on a 4 GB hard disk partition on my laptop and it's only using about 2 GB. Enter the laptop's BIOS and configure it to boot from PCMCIA. Install linux to the flash and you have a solid state machine that will fair much better than any hard drive in a vehicle. scot From kc0iog at gmail.com Wed Aug 2 09:04:33 2006 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 09:04:33 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: LTO autoloader needed Message-ID: <2c6699da0608020704j793cfc7csa005f6cfa33db36@mail.gmail.com> I'm trying to work through a failure on an Ultrium 2 LTO autoloader. Does anyone on this list have a spare Ultrium 2 or Ultrium 3 tape autoloader that I could borrow for a week or so? Compensation is available. -Brian From robbyt at gmail.com Wed Aug 2 09:53:16 2006 From: robbyt at gmail.com (Rob Terhaar) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 09:53:16 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Yum causes reboot.. In-Reply-To: <200607312254.01368.jack@jacku.com> References: <200607312254.01368.jack@jacku.com> Message-ID: <1f663090608020753r1064f146k1b26f6d6f4c70765@mail.gmail.com> On 7/31/06, Jack Ungerleider wrote: > > On Monday 31 July 2006 12:54 pm, Sean Waite wrote: > > Does this seem odd, or has this happened to anyone. I go to do a Yum > update > > (Suse 10) and the system reboots on an old AMD K2-450. Now at first I > would > > have assumed that the system was being overworkded (?), but yet I have > > installed a few packages that required compiling which were much more > CPU > > intensive for a longer time than the Yum update is running. > > > > Maybe I am looking at this the wrong way, but I can not seem to figure > out > > why Yum would cause a reboot of all things. > > > > > > Sean Waite > > Its possible your underlying version of RPM is faulty. If you're using > 10.1 > then you'll want to make sure you've got the updates for Zenworks and > YaST. > (Of course if you are using the commercial version that may not be > needed.) > When I upgraded it took two tries because I needed to be wired into the > network to be able to configure the online updater and grab the updates. > > Anyway you might try running the Online update from YaST and see if that > corrects anything. > > -- > Jack Ungerleider > jack at jacku.com > http://www.jacku.com > > I doubt that it's something software related like RPM being hosed- Can you do this without making the system reboot? find / && find / My bet is that all of the hard drive activity is pushing the power supply past it's limit. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060802/f4c77f5d/attachment.htm From harv.nelson at gmail.com Tue Aug 1 14:00:31 2006 From: harv.nelson at gmail.com (Harv Nelson) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 19:00:31 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] lap top of choice Message-ID: <6a470a5f0608011200o78b2f85ft73e597b08974636d@mail.gmail.com> what is the current lap top of choice for linux. full debian install. of course price will be a prime consideration. I plan to carry it in the truck and use mostly for mobile Ham radio communications. thanks harv -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060801/8388b030/attachment.htm From ajs at cems.umn.edu Wed Aug 2 10:16:41 2006 From: ajs at cems.umn.edu (Andy Schmid) Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2006 10:16:41 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] lap top of choice In-Reply-To: <6a470a5f0608011200o78b2f85ft73e597b08974636d@mail.gmail.com> References: <6a470a5f0608011200o78b2f85ft73e597b08974636d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44D0C1D9.4040906@cems.umn.edu> IBM (now lenovo) Thinkpads are possibly the best choice for linux.. every feature on my x31 works beautifully running debian. You can pick up a slightly older one at a decent price, but newer thinkpads can get kind of spendy. Andy Harv Nelson wrote: > what is the current lap top of choice for linux. full debian > install. of > course price will be a prime consideration. I plan to carry it in the > truck > and use mostly for mobile Ham radio communications. > > thanks > > harv > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list at mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From scheides at iexposure.com Wed Aug 2 10:22:51 2006 From: scheides at iexposure.com (Chris Scheidecker) Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2006 10:22:51 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Looking for a Nortel Consultant Message-ID: <44D0C34B.6040708@iexposure.com> If anyone on this list would like to do some Nortel consulting or knows anyone who does consulting for Nortel phone systems, please contact me off list. In fact, please feel free to have them call me at 952-400-7515 as soon as possible. Thank you, -Chris Scheidecker From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Aug 2 10:28:31 2006 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2006 10:28:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] lap top of choice In-Reply-To: <44D0C1D9.4040906@cems.umn.edu> References: <6a470a5f0608011200o78b2f85ft73e597b08974636d@mail.gmail.com> <44D0C1D9.4040906@cems.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20060802152831.15DDF1E27@skuld.wookimus.net> Andy Schmid wrote: > IBM (now lenovo) Thinkpads are possibly the best choice for linux.. > every feature on my x31 works beautifully running debian. You can > pick up a slightly older one at a decent price, but newer thinkpads > can get kind of spendy. Be forewarned. You must purchase an IBM supported minipci wireless card, if you're going to use minipci at all. I purchased a set of wireless cards not too long ago, only to find that on my T30, the BIOS refused to allow the system to boot. The only fix would have been to hack the BIOS itself to allow it. I just got a new Dell D620 with an Intel wireless card. I had to install an update ieee801x driver set as well as the Intel sourceforge open source driver, download the regulation daemon, and the microcode firmware for the card before getting it to work. It worked for the 2.6.15 kernel, but when I tried to patch the 2.6.16 kernel, it failed for me. With wireless and centrino, you're going to run in to problems. I didn't purchase the laptop; it was a college purchase. Were I to shop for a personal laptop, I would consider getting something AMD-based, if only to avoid the Intel hassle. -- Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ From thurianknight at gmail.com Wed Aug 2 10:30:19 2006 From: thurianknight at gmail.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 10:30:19 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] lap top of choice In-Reply-To: <6a470a5f0608011200o78b2f85ft73e597b08974636d@mail.gmail.com> References: <6a470a5f0608011200o78b2f85ft73e597b08974636d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7bdea6e30608020830i6cb321c0na2c8ddd9732d5cfb@mail.gmail.com> On 8/1/06, Harv Nelson wrote: > > what is the current lap top of choice for linux. full debian install. > of course price will be a prime consideration. I plan to carry it in the > truck and use mostly for mobile Ham radio communications. > I have a new Acer Aspire 5670. Everything except the integrated webcam works in Ubuntu. I was running Fedora Core 5 before Ubuntu, and had everything except the webcam working in that as well. It just took more work to get it all going. I would recommend using http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/ as a reference, to see what laptops work under what distributions. -- Dave Sherman MCSA, MCSE, CCNA Linux: Because rebooting is for adding new hardware. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060802/71ed3730/attachment.htm From robbyt at gmail.com Wed Aug 2 10:55:38 2006 From: robbyt at gmail.com (Rob Terhaar) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 10:55:38 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux%20Users%20Group In-Reply-To: References: <6a470a5f0608011208m20b66e75yc030a3cedd16ebc7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f663090608020855i17fdfepf3a432ffffe5c293@mail.gmail.com> On 8/1/06, Scot Jenkins wrote: > > On 8/1/06, Harv Nelson wrote: > > what is the current lap top of choice for linux. full debian > install. of > > course price will be a prime consideration. I plan to carry it in the > truck > > and use mostly for mobile Ham radio communications. > > > > thanks > > > > Harv > > Shop ebay.com, materialsprocessing.com (surplus store) or ibm.com > ("certified used equipment") for a slightly older Thinkpad. > > Remove the hard drive and get a CF/PCMCIA adapter and as big a > CompactFlash card as you can afford. I believe you can get up to 4 GB > cards now, which should be plenty for linux. I'm running a healthy > Debian install on a 4 GB hard disk partition on my laptop and it's > only using about 2 GB. > > Enter the laptop's BIOS and configure it to boot from PCMCIA. Install > linux to the flash and you have a solid state machine that will fair > much better than any hard drive in a vehicle. > > scot > > If you run your system from a flash card, you should really have a lot of places mounted as tempfs. Areas like, /var/log and /tmp should be tempfs- plus i'm sure there are a few other areas(google it). Plus, no swapfile!!! The reason for this is that the number of writes to flash memory is relatively limited compared to hard drives. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060802/d34e1f84/attachment.htm From mattjohnson2005 at gmail.com Wed Aug 2 14:52:48 2006 From: mattjohnson2005 at gmail.com (Matthew Johnson) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 14:52:48 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux%20Users%20Group In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30608011222p5e7b343nf40beab56fa3e0d4@mail.gmail.com> References: <6a470a5f0608011208m20b66e75yc030a3cedd16ebc7@mail.gmail.com> <579c6fd30608011222p5e7b343nf40beab56fa3e0d4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7d3948c70608021252s3ff28073uf9d95639477a642d@mail.gmail.com> Dear Eric, et al: I have a IBM with 1400x1050 and I love it. More desktop, hooh ha. My uncle has a 1024X768 and I can barely stand to use it! 1400x1050 gives a 4:3 ratio so is technically not a a widescreen. 1280x800, 1440x900, 1600x1024 are all considered widescreen. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_resolution#Computer_Graphics Have a good one! -Matt Johnson On 8/1/06, Eric Peterson wrote: > little fuss. The only thing that required some extra work was I had > to run the 915resolution program to get 1400x1050. Otherwise > everything is working out of the box. > > It's nice to have the widescreen ratio for coding and sysadmin work. From thurianknight at gmail.com Wed Aug 2 15:48:07 2006 From: thurianknight at gmail.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 15:48:07 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] MythTV / home media server setup questions In-Reply-To: <44D0FAE9.9060105@plauditdesign.com> References: <7bdea6e30607301017r304ca0b0vc584230a44b5a3cf@mail.gmail.com> <44D0FAE9.9060105@plauditdesign.com> Message-ID: <7bdea6e30608021348x45c9c73btae91636c891844a@mail.gmail.com> On 8/2/06, Matt Dittbenner wrote: > > After reading the replies from everyone else, I'm still somewhat lost on > some of the details of your project. So I'll start by asking some questions > to try to clarify some of the scope of this project. > > 1. How many rooms are involved? > > At least 6 rooms. > 1. What kind of budget were you thinking for the total system (minus > the laptops you already have, of course). > > A few $k. > 1. Are you looking to include actual PVR capabilities or just play > already existing media from the server? > > PVR, too. > 1. Why don't you want a "computer" in every room? > 1. size? > > Yes. Also the space required for keyboard/monitor/mouse. I don't want to need a desk or shelf or whatever in every room. > 1. cost? > > Eh... > 1. noise? > > Yes. > 1. Will you be using an audio receiver / amplifier? > > Yes. > 1. If yes, are you going to try to support digital surround sound? > > Only in one room, the actual home theater room. > 1. If yes, where did you plan on putting it/them? > > As above. > 1. How do you plan on getting audio from one room to another? > > Speaker wire. > 1. How do you plan on getting video from one room to another? > > Co-ax cable. > 1. What do you plan running the video to in each room? > 1. Standard Analog TV > > One room. > 1. HD TV > > Theater room. > 1. computer monitor/software program > > No. > 1. What do you plan running the audio to in each room? > 1. computer speakers > > No. > 1. shelf/audio component speakers > > Yes. > 1. headphones > > No. > 1. receiver > > No. Sorry, I know I've got some repetition in there. > > Running analog wires, in my opinion, would be a last resort. The > degradation of video and audio quality would probably be significant enough > that it would almost outweigh the benefit of doing this at all. Especially > as you increase the number of rooms. > I'm not an A/V wiring expert, but how does the cable company maintain quality with co-ax cable? I was just going to do the same thing, assuming it is possible. REALISTICALLY... using some sort of thin client that you can hide somewhere > is BY FAR the most flexible way to go. Your "wall jacks" to "simply plug in" > to would be much better suited as networking ports or even wireless, with > some sort of device in between to convert the stream back to something you > can use on a TV or stereo. A computer can be such a flexible device that you > don't have to have an entire desktop case to dedicate to such a specific > task. > The server sitting in a dedicated server closet is supposed to be the flexible device. All output would go from it, to various rooms. You can go get a used Xbox and mod it (if you don't know people that can do > it, someone you know might, and I definitely know some people if you want > help). It will support analog and digital audio, and standard definition > video, etc... basically anything you'd want to throw at a TV or set of > speakers. Xbox Media Center is a great, FREE app that will do everything you > want and more. Stream audio/video from any existing PC share on the network, > and controllable with a remote for the Xbox, the xbox controller (not what > you want) or via the built-in web server. The number of rooms would be > essentially limited only by your network and server power. > > You alternatively could try to hook up a myth front end right on the xbox, > but Xbox linux is (as far as I understand) not to be trusted. Maybe it's > fixed now, but XBMC is more likely the best bet. > > Trying to go the all analog route means: > > 1. purchasing one audio card for each room with audio > > This was my assumption. > 1. purchasing one video card for each room with video > > This was my assumption. > 1. filling up your pci/agp/pci-e/usb (I'm fairly certain they make > usb soundcards) ports > > Good point, I hadn't thought of the fact that my motherboard would have a limited number of ports & slots. > 1. you can't move to a PVR solution since you've already filled up > your slots > 2. since you are running analog, the cables are EXPENSIVE for > long ones and more expensive for high enough gauge ones to control the > interference/degradation. > > News to me. I was going to run standard speaker wire for audio, and co-ax for video. > 1. Not scalable (limited number of rooms) means if you move or > expand your installation in any way, your investment is gone. > > Could be an issue in the future, not sure. Probably more issues, but really I don't see it being worth it. Myth on your > server can save it's streams to some sort of shared folder and you can just > read them right off the server and not even bother with the myth front-end. > I'm pretty sure it's standard mpeg format video (for recorded programs) and > if not, you can have a script convert them. > > I know I probably sound like a MS / XBox fanboy here, but to put this into > perspective, I don't even have an XBox. I plan on purchasing one in the next > month and doing exactly this. 5 of my friends however DO have modded xboxes > (you can do it with software these days, no opening of the box is required > if you don't want to....this also allows you to put it back to it's original > state easily) and I can tell you it's great. It put the itch in me to pick > at least one up if not more and for like $99 used, its a steal. > > Let me know what you think about this since I have other ideas, but I just > think this is the most convenient, clean and highest quality solution for > this type of installation. > Thanks for the input. Since this is still the exploratory phase, I obviously had not thought of everything yet. I just wanted to know if MythTV could handle multiple channels of audio and video output. I've seen some of the small form factor PC cases, and they would look OK scattered and hidden around the house. But unless I can run them all as headless myth clients with their own web front-end, I really don't see the benefit of putting a computer in every room just so I can centralize the storage and streaming of my A/V media. I might as well just put a small boom box in every room and be done with it. If I CAN do the SFF headless myth client with web-based front-end, then it becomes something worth looking into. Dave -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060802/d0a40a64/attachment.htm From daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com Wed Aug 2 16:20:12 2006 From: daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com (Dan Armbrust) Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2006 16:20:12 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] MythTV / home media server setup questions In-Reply-To: <7bdea6e30608021348x45c9c73btae91636c891844a@mail.gmail.com> References: <7bdea6e30607301017r304ca0b0vc584230a44b5a3cf@mail.gmail.com> <44D0FAE9.9060105@plauditdesign.com> <7bdea6e30608021348x45c9c73btae91636c891844a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44D1170C.5020405@gmail.com> > 2. since you are running analog, the cables are EXPENSIVE > for long ones and more expensive for high enough gauge > ones to control the interference/degradation. > > http://www.cablesforless.com/ helps a lot with the price of cables. I've had good luck with them in the past - their middle quality cables are usually far better than the high quality cables that you find at Best Buy - for about 1/2 the cost. Even small orders come out cheaper when you factor in shipping. Unless of course, you believe all of the Monster / THX Certified / Time correct windings BS that stores like to spout - well - then, a fool and his money... Oh - and I agree - having a pc in every room with a TV would be a royal pain. I would run cables - and invest in some RF remote hardware - something like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16880100402 for each room. If you run short on motherboard ports / processing power - etc - I would put multiple pcs in the server room. You can easily share disk / monitor / keyboard / that way - and the noise stays in one place. Dan From thurianknight at gmail.com Wed Aug 2 16:51:28 2006 From: thurianknight at gmail.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 16:51:28 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] MythTV / home media server setup questions In-Reply-To: <44D1170C.5020405@gmail.com> References: <7bdea6e30607301017r304ca0b0vc584230a44b5a3cf@mail.gmail.com> <44D0FAE9.9060105@plauditdesign.com> <7bdea6e30608021348x45c9c73btae91636c891844a@mail.gmail.com> <44D1170C.5020405@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7bdea6e30608021451w3c4f2d40mea02d189ed124660@mail.gmail.com> On 8/2/06, Dan Armbrust wrote: > > > > 2. since you are running analog, the cables are EXPENSIVE > > for long ones and more expensive for high enough gauge > > ones to control the interference/degradation. > > > > > > http://www.cablesforless.com/ > helps a lot with the price of cables. I have bought from them as well, with good service experiences. I've had good luck with them in the past - their middle quality cables > are usually far better than the high quality cables that you find at > Best Buy - for about 1/2 the cost. Even small orders come out cheaper > when you factor in shipping. I will never buy cables from a retail store again :-) Unless of course, you believe all of the Monster / THX Certified / Time > correct windings BS that stores like to spout - well - then, a fool and > his money... Agreed. Oh - and I agree - having a pc in every room with a TV would be a royal > pain. I would run cables - and invest in some RF remote hardware - > something like this: > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16880100402 > > for each room. > > If you run short on motherboard ports / processing power - etc - I would > put multiple pcs in the server room. You can easily share disk / > monitor / keyboard / that way - and the noise stays in one place. I was starting to think along those lines as well, after sending my last reply. I'm going to rackmount everything in the closet anyway, so a simple kvm setup wouldn't be too difficult to add. Throw 8-10 small PCs in there, each dedicated to one room in the house, and run the analog outputs from them instead of all coming from the server. -- Dave Sherman MCSA, MCSE, CCNA Linux: Because rebooting is for adding new hardware. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060802/029719b2/attachment-0001.htm From cncole at earthlink.net Wed Aug 2 17:45:59 2006 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 17:45:59 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] MythTV / home media server setup questions In-Reply-To: <44D1170C.5020405@gmail.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Dan Armbrust > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 4:20 PM > To: Dave Sherman > Cc: TCLug > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] MythTV / home media server setup questions > > > > > 2. since you are running analog, the cables > are EXPENSIVE > > for long ones and more expensive for high > enough gauge > > ones to control the interference/degradation. > > I'd be more concerned about the analog losses in long cables. Even speaker cables shouldn't be "rooms long" because of the added inductance. More than about 6ft of analog cables is too long for highest quality ("evelator music" can be much longer). I'd look for a digital solution for distribution and deal with noise as budget may permit. Chuck From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Aug 2 18:00:03 2006 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 18:00:03 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] MythTV / home media server setup questions In-Reply-To: <7bdea6e30608021348x45c9c73btae91636c891844a@mail.gmail.com> References: <7bdea6e30607301017r304ca0b0vc584230a44b5a3cf@mail.gmail.com> <44D0FAE9.9060105@plauditdesign.com> <7bdea6e30608021348x45c9c73btae91636c891844a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Aug 2006, Dave Sherman wrote: >> 1. Will you be using an audio receiver / amplifier? >> >> > Yes. One in every room? >> 1. How do you plan on getting audio from one room to another? >> >> > Speaker wire. Will you have multiple amplifiers next to the server, attached to the various sound cards on the server, with speaker wire coming out of the amplifiers? Maybe there are amps that can handle multiple output channels independently and simultaneously, but I'm not familiar with them. >> 1. How do you plan on getting video from one room to another? >> >> > Co-ax cable. Have you thought about S-video? I used that to send video from my downstairs TV to my upstairs computer monitor and it worked very well -- excellent quality. Mike From markring40 at ippimail.com Wed Aug 2 19:12:24 2006 From: markring40 at ippimail.com (markring40 at ippimail.com) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 01:12:24 +0100 (BST) Subject: [tclug-list] lap top of choice In-Reply-To: <7bdea6e30608020830i6cb321c0na2c8ddd9732d5cfb@mail.gmail.com> References: <6a470a5f0608011200o78b2f85ft73e597b08974636d@mail.gmail.com> <7bdea6e30608020830i6cb321c0na2c8ddd9732d5cfb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <11776.69.76.4.32.1154563944.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> I've bought many used laptops, both with and without OS's, from http://www.usedlaptopsonline.com/ . I've had very good experiences with them. I've had to use the extended warranty on two systems over the years and they stood behind everything 100%. Mark Ring > On 8/1/06, Harv Nelson wrote: >> >> what is the current lap top of choice for linux. full debian install. >> of course price will be a prime consideration. I plan to carry it in >> the >> truck and use mostly for mobile Ham radio communications. >> > > I have a new Acer Aspire 5670. Everything except the integrated webcam > works > in Ubuntu. I was running Fedora Core 5 before Ubuntu, and had everything > except the webcam working in that as well. It just took more work to get > it > all going. > > I would recommend using http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/ as a reference, > to > see what laptops work under what distributions. > > -- > Dave Sherman > MCSA, MCSE, CCNA > Linux: Because rebooting is for adding new hardware. > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Get a free email address at http://www.ippimail.com and support your favorite charity without it costing you a penny. Email for the good guys! From steventrapp at comcast.net Wed Aug 2 19:42:56 2006 From: steventrapp at comcast.net (Steven N. Trapp) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 19:42:56 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] lap top of choice In-Reply-To: <11776.69.76.4.32.1154563944.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> References: <6a470a5f0608011200o78b2f85ft73e597b08974636d@mail.gmail.com> <7bdea6e30608020830i6cb321c0na2c8ddd9732d5cfb@mail.gmail.com> <11776.69.76.4.32.1154563944.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> Message-ID: <> SSS N N N T << steventrapp at comcast.net || S N NN T || a.k.a. KeystoneStrapper \\ SSS N N T // Minneapolis, MN, U.S.A. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (Meatloaf) & meatloaf VERSUS Moulin Rogue and vegetables (Nicole Kidman) OVER-AND-OUT -- On Thu, 3 Aug 2006, markring40 at ippimail.com wrote: > I've bought many used laptops, both with and without OS's, from > http://www.usedlaptopsonline.com/ . I've had very good experiences with > them. I've had to use the extended warranty on two systems over the years > and they stood behind everything 100%. > > Mark Ring > > > > > On 8/1/06, Harv Nelson wrote: > >> > >> what is the current lap top of choice for linux. full debian install. > >> of course price will be a prime consideration. I plan to carry it in > >> the > >> truck and use mostly for mobile Ham radio communications. > >> > > > > I have a new Acer Aspire 5670. Everything except the integrated webcam > > works > > in Ubuntu. I was running Fedora Core 5 before Ubuntu, and had everything > > except the webcam working in that as well. It just took more work to get > > it > > all going. > > > > I would recommend using http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/ as a reference, > > to > > see what laptops work under what distributions. > > > > -- > > Dave Sherman > > MCSA, MCSE, CCNA > > Linux: Because rebooting is for adding new hardware. > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Get a free email address at http://www.ippimail.com and > support your favorite charity without it costing you a penny. > Email for the good guys! > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From mattjohnson2005 at gmail.com Wed Aug 2 20:14:50 2006 From: mattjohnson2005 at gmail.com (Matthew Johnson) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 20:14:50 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] lap top of choice In-Reply-To: References: <6a470a5f0608011200o78b2f85ft73e597b08974636d@mail.gmail.com> <7bdea6e30608020830i6cb321c0na2c8ddd9732d5cfb@mail.gmail.com> <11776.69.76.4.32.1154563944.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> Message-ID: <7d3948c70608021814l2442864cu5f7110e0d7371ab5@mail.gmail.com> Was this meant to go to the TCLUG list? On 8/2/06, Steven N. Trapp wrote: > > > > < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<----X8----Beginning of Memorandum<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > Bridgeview/SLS picnic > Locke Parke, Fridley, MN > No notice. When: 4-7p Thu Aug 3, 2006 > I'll be the one eating hamburgers. Ha, ha. > Art reception in the area too. > Party like it is 2006! > Only bring people in your 'circle of trust'. > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<----X8----End of Memorandum<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > _____________________ > // SSS N N TTTTT \\ > || S NN N T || S. N. Trapp > >> SSS N N N T << steventrapp at comcast.net > || S N NN T || a.k.a. KeystoneStrapper > \\ SSS N N T // Minneapolis, MN, U.S.A. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > (Meatloaf) & meatloaf VERSUS Moulin Rogue and vegetables (Nicole Kidman) > OVER-AND-OUT > -- > > On Thu, 3 Aug 2006, markring40 at ippimail.com wrote: > > > I've bought many used laptops, both with and without OS's, from > > http://www.usedlaptopsonline.com/ . I've had very good experiences with > > them. I've had to use the extended warranty on two systems over the > years > > and they stood behind everything 100%. > > > > Mark Ring > > > > > > > > > On 8/1/06, Harv Nelson wrote: > > >> > > >> what is the current lap top of choice for linux. full debian > install. > > >> of course price will be a prime consideration. I plan to carry it in > > >> the > > >> truck and use mostly for mobile Ham radio communications. > > >> > > > > > > I have a new Acer Aspire 5670. Everything except the integrated webcam > > > works > > > in Ubuntu. I was running Fedora Core 5 before Ubuntu, and had > everything > > > except the webcam working in that as well. It just took more work to > get > > > it > > > all going. > > > > > > I would recommend using http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/ as a > reference, > > > to > > > see what laptops work under what distributions. > > > > > > -- > > > Dave Sherman > > > MCSA, MCSE, CCNA > > > Linux: Because rebooting is for adding new hardware. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Get a free email address at http://www.ippimail.com and > > support your favorite charity without it costing you a penny. > > Email for the good guys! > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Sign up for wireless Amber alerts by zipcode: https://www.wirelessamberalerts.org/index.jsp More info: http://www.wirelessfoundation.org/amber/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060802/97e98796/attachment-0001.htm From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Thu Aug 3 09:17:08 2006 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 09:17:08 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] desktop video streaming? Message-ID: <20060803091708.8d681161.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Does anyone know if you can use videolan to stream the contents of your desktop? I'm trying to setup a stream to "demo" an application that's running repeatedly on one linux box. Thanks, Josh From tclug at beitsahour.net Thu Aug 3 10:06:48 2006 From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 10:06:48 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] desktop video streaming? References: <20060803091708.8d681161.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: Josh Trutwin writes: > Does anyone know if you can use videolan to stream the contents of > your desktop? I'm trying to setup a stream to "demo" an > application that's running repeatedly on one linux box. sounds like this is a job for vnc2swf, it records your vnc session as a movie file that you can then play in a loop. of course you can just use vnc to display a remote system, or run the X application tunneled over ssh, or use freeNX, or use XDMCP.... there really are no end of ways you can do that. videolan though may not be the right tool for the job. -- Munir Nassar From jonathon.jongsma at gmail.com Thu Aug 3 10:36:42 2006 From: jonathon.jongsma at gmail.com (Jonathon Jongsma) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 10:36:42 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] desktop video streaming? In-Reply-To: <20060803091708.8d681161.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20060803091708.8d681161.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: On 8/3/06, Josh Trutwin wrote: > Does anyone know if you can use videolan to stream the contents of > your desktop? I'm trying to setup a stream to "demo" an > application that's running repeatedly on one linux box. > > Thanks, > > Josh This is theoretically possible, but i always get segfaults when I try to do it. Are you trying to display a live version of the desktop in realtime or is a recorded screencast played back in a loop good enough? If so, I'd recommend trying out "Istanbul". It's a program that lets you record screencasts in the open ogg theora format. I know it's available in Debian / Ubuntu repositories and probably others. (There's flash screencast tool as well, but I get frustrated when people do screencasts in flash because flash doesn't work on my amd64 box and I don't feel like setting up a 32-bit chroot just for flash) -- jonner From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Thu Aug 3 10:51:17 2006 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 10:51:17 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] desktop video streaming? In-Reply-To: References: <20060803091708.8d681161.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <20060803105117.02f648ce.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 10:06:48 -0500 Munir Nassar wrote: > Josh Trutwin writes: > > > Does anyone know if you can use videolan to stream the contents > > of your desktop? I'm trying to setup a stream to "demo" an > > application that's running repeatedly on one linux box. > > sounds like this is a job for vnc2swf, it records your vnc > session as a movie file that you can then play in a loop. > > of course you can just use vnc to display a remote system, or run > the X application tunneled over ssh, or use freeNX, or use > XDMCP.... > > there really are no end of ways you can do that. videolan though > may not be the right tool for the job. I think I'm finding that out now - plus it's being a @#$$ to install from source. Thanks for the pointers, will let you know what I come up with. Josh From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Thu Aug 3 10:59:49 2006 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 10:59:49 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] desktop video streaming? In-Reply-To: References: <20060803091708.8d681161.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <20060803105949.5359a9d5.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 10:36:42 -0500 "Jonathon Jongsma" wrote: > On 8/3/06, Josh Trutwin wrote: > > Does anyone know if you can use videolan to stream the contents > > of your desktop? I'm trying to setup a stream to "demo" an > > application that's running repeatedly on one linux box. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Josh > > This is theoretically possible, but i always get segfaults when I > try to do it. > > Are you trying to display a live version of the desktop in > realtime or is a recorded screencast played back in a loop good > enough? If so, I'd recommend trying out "Istanbul". It's a > program that lets you record screencasts in the open ogg theora > format. I know it's available in Debian / Ubuntu repositories > and probably others. (There's flash screencast tool as well, but > I get frustrated when people do screencasts in flash because > flash doesn't work on my amd64 box and I don't feel like setting > up a 32-bit chroot just for flash) Copied Mailing List: I'd like it to be live, which was why I started down the streaming route. Maybe a little more information on the application would help. Trying to setup a web page where management types across the organization (including other locations accross the US) can go to see what our little group is capable of doing. One of the things we are throwing around is having one of our custom applications (a model of a custom user interface for a military vehicle) running on a Linux box in a loop - someone can then pull up our webpage and watch it live - if I get really fancy I might add in ways to interact with the application via the web page as well, which is why I'm thinking live now vs screencasting, but that's still down the road. Right now I'd like to get the app streaming setup as a proof of concept and go from there. I mentioned military, so the things I have under my control are very limitted (no root/sudo on the box, no ability to add capture cards, etc). Munir mentioned vnc2swf which looks like it might be a better choice than vlc/vls. Thanks, Josh From mbditt at plauditdesign.com Thu Aug 3 12:27:13 2006 From: mbditt at plauditdesign.com (Matt Dittbenner) Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 12:27:13 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] MythTV / home media server setup questions In-Reply-To: <7bdea6e30608021348x45c9c73btae91636c891844a@mail.gmail.com> References: <7bdea6e30607301017r304ca0b0vc584230a44b5a3cf@mail.gmail.com> <44D0FAE9.9060105@plauditdesign.com> <7bdea6e30608021348x45c9c73btae91636c891844a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44D231F1.4010608@plauditdesign.com> I forgot to say before. This sounds like a fun project and I hope it goes as well as you'd like. Congrats on your new house, as well. I probably come off as a zealot or whatever, but I hope my input can help you, whether or not you use it. I've addressed some additional items below as well. Just my $0.75. > > 1. Will you be using an audio receiver / amplifier? > > > Yes. > Do you have a receiver that supports separate rooms already, or do you plan on buying 6 separate receivers, one of which supports digital surround? One of the messages in the list did mention receivers with multi-room support. They DO exist, but they are usually the higher end models. Almost all receivers have a speaker selection option to select multiple speaker sets, but you usually can't pipe separate inputs to the different sets. > > 1. If yes, are you going to try to support digital > surround sound? > > > Only in one room, the actual home theater room. Will you be using a DVD player in this room? I think I saw you wanted the receivers in the server room. That would mean that you would either have to run optical or high-grade coax (digital audio coax...RCA plugs on the ends) from the dvd player back to the receiver in the other room (expensive again...) or have the dvd player in the other room. > Running analog wires, in my opinion, would be a last resort. The > degradation of video and audio quality would probably be > significant enough that it would almost outweigh the benefit of > doing this at all. Especially as you increase the number of rooms. > > > I'm not an A/V wiring expert, but how does the cable company maintain > quality with co-ax cable? I was just going to do the same thing, > assuming it is possible. The cable company maintains good quality by requiring a "thin client" as well...a cable box. For digital you either rent or purchase the box, and for analog, the decoding hardware has been built into televisions for many years now. Doing the same thing as the cable company would require expensive equipment to create the same type of signal used by the cable company. Just running video over coax (probably using an RF modulator or something?) is likely going to make your picture look very grainy an anything larger than a 20" television (but still noticeable even on that small of a size). Basically it will look like you are watching a reasonably clean picture off of a rabbit-ears antenna. If you've ever owned a video game console, you might know what I'm talking about. The clarity of a the signal coming off of an RF modulator (converts the video to coax inputs) is quite poor compared to even standard composite. Unless you ARE talking about composite cable (the yellow one) which is definitely acceptable. > > REALISTICALLY... using some sort of thin client that you can hide > somewhere is BY FAR the most flexible way to go. Your "wall jacks" > to "simply plug in" to would be much better suited as networking > ports or even wireless, with some sort of device in between to > convert the stream back to something you can use on a TV or > stereo. A computer can be such a flexible device that you don't > have to have an entire desktop case to dedicate to such a specific > task. > > > The server sitting in a dedicated server closet is supposed to be the > flexible device. All output would go from it, to various rooms. It all depends on how you look at it. In my opinion, converting the digital data to analog so early is more of a headache. That is why digital cable and satellite are so big these days, because it is much easier to distribute a digital signal than analog. So Having the server distribute (or provide access to) digital media directly allows you to keep it digital as long as possible. You > > Could be an issue in the future, not sure. > > Probably more issues, but really I don't see it being worth it. > Myth on your server can save it's streams to some sort of shared > folder and you can just read them right off the server and not > even bother with the myth front-end. I'm pretty sure it's standard > mpeg format video (for recorded programs) and if not, you can have > a script convert them. > > I know I probably sound like a MS / XBox fanboy here, but to put > this into perspective, I don't even have an XBox. I plan on > purchasing one in the next month and doing exactly this. 5 of my > friends however DO have modded xboxes (you can do it with software > these days, no opening of the box is required if you don't want > to....this also allows you to put it back to it's original state > easily) and I can tell you it's great. It put the itch in me to > pick at least one up if not more and for like $99 used, its a steal. > > Let me know what you think about this since I have other ideas, > but I just think this is the most convenient, clean and highest > quality solution for this type of installation. > > > Thanks for the input. Since this is still the exploratory phase, I > obviously had not thought of everything yet. I just wanted to know if > MythTV could handle multiple channels of audio and video output. > > I've seen some of the small form factor PC cases, and they would look > OK scattered and hidden around the house. But unless I can run them > all as headless myth clients with their own web front-end, I really > don't see the benefit of putting a computer in every room just so I > can centralize the storage and streaming of my A/V media. I might as > well just put a small boom box in every room and be done with it. > > If I CAN do the SFF headless myth client with web-based front-end, > then it becomes something worth looking into. > > Dave > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Matt Dittbenner *EMAIL* mbditt at plauditdesign.com *WEB* www.plauditdesign.com *PHONE* 651.646.0696 *ADDRESS* 2470 University Ave. St. Paul, MN 55114 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060803/cc45982e/attachment.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 109 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060803/cc45982e/attachment-0006.gif From john.meier at gmail.com Thu Aug 3 23:21:09 2006 From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 23:21:09 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Xandros 4 home ed. Premium Message-ID: <65293fcc0608032121h5509d8b6t7273b8a60b766119@mail.gmail.com> Anyone interested in Xandros 4 Home edition Premium? I ordered the download and the box late one night - Installed and ran it for a week on our home computer which used to have XP. Wife hated it - Kids don't like it (even though Crossover played most of their simple games) and to tell you the truth - XP was less of a hassle - if you know what I mean .... So I'm out like $100 ( yeah I'm chucklin' about it too) - I can RMA it and get like $90 minus whatever it costs to ship the box back. If anyone wants to wheel and deal - let me know. john From john.meier at gmail.com Thu Aug 3 23:32:21 2006 From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 23:32:21 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Xandros 4 home ed. Premium In-Reply-To: <65293fcc0608032121h5509d8b6t7273b8a60b766119@mail.gmail.com> References: <65293fcc0608032121h5509d8b6t7273b8a60b766119@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65293fcc0608032132m65c2c1e7x91fa838b2d6fdddb@mail.gmail.com> On 8/3/06, John Meier wrote: > Anyone interested in Xandros 4 Home edition Premium? I ordered the > download and the box late one night - Installed and ran it for a week > on our home computer which used to have XP. Forgot to mention that I have not activated the OS - so it really really is "brand new" - unopened box and all that jazz.... > From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Fri Aug 4 10:52:23 2006 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 10:52:23 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] MythTV / home media server setup questions In-Reply-To: <7bdea6e30608021451w3c4f2d40mea02d189ed124660@mail.gmail.com> References: <7bdea6e30607301017r304ca0b0vc584230a44b5a3cf@mail.gmail.com> <44D0FAE9.9060105@plauditdesign.com> <7bdea6e30608021348x45c9c73btae91636c891844a@mail.gmail.com> <44D1170C.5020405@gmail.com> <7bdea6e30608021451w3c4f2d40mea02d189ed124660@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <914f813c0608040852x60d56b5cpf8fddd6abfbd66b2@mail.gmail.com> On 8/2/06, Dave Sherman wrote: > I was starting to think along those lines as well, after sending my last > reply. I'm going to rackmount everything in the closet anyway, so a simple > kvm setup wouldn't be too difficult to add. Throw 8-10 small PCs in there, > each dedicated to one room in the house, and run the analog outputs from > them instead of all coming from the server. I know it was said by others, but between the cost of cabling the speakers (which evidently would be high) and the pain of all that, would it make more sense to build some PCs around minipci using some 19" cases (a component profile, rather than a tower or rack-mount) and just not put a keyboard, monitor or mouse out there in each room? You can the use SSH or VNC to control each one. Plus, these PCs are usually fanless and quiet. You don't even need a hard drive in them...boot off of a CF slot , or netboot. Then all you have to run are network cables back to your huge file server. If you're going to purchase 8 PCs anyway, this makes more sense to me. They may be more expenseive, but putting the PC locally could allow you to reduce the total number of PCs for situations where two rooms' TVs are back-to-back. Then you can just run component through back-to-back wall-jacks. From esamuel at mn.rr.com Sun Aug 6 11:14:37 2006 From: esamuel at mn.rr.com (Eugene Samuel) Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2006 11:14:37 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Open Source Network Connection utility for Windows Message-ID: <44D6156D.6060403@mn.rr.com> Greetings all, Please do not flame me for asking a windows question. Problem: I reinstalled Windows XP on my daughters computer and I am unable to acquire an IP address from D-Link router. However, when I boot up with Knoppix live cd there is no problem establishing a network connection. Any thoughts? Eugene From swaite at sbn-services.com Sun Aug 6 12:18:05 2006 From: swaite at sbn-services.com (Sean Waite) Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2006 12:18:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Open Source Network Connection utility for Windows In-Reply-To: <44D6156D.6060403@mn.rr.com> References: <44D6156D.6060403@mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <1154884685.4444.11.camel@Thor.sbn-services.com> On Sun, 2006-08-06 at 11:14 -0500, Eugene Samuel wrote: > tclug-list at mn-linux.org That is quite odd. I usually get this after I start installing stuff like VMware or a VPNclient. It very well could be the DHCP client is not running or crashing. Check the event log, or clear it and reboot to see a full listing of what is possibly failing. Also, did you check to see if first the NIC is recognised, and functioning under Computer Management>Devices? I get this alot with Windows 2003 Server installing on older Compaq servers,for some reason it will fail to install 3COM or Intel NIC drivers that work otherwise just fine. Sometimes during the device detection of setup the drivers are not poperly installed and configured. If you go into the Network Connections, do you see "Local Area Connection"? When you open that up and open properties do you see TCP/IP listed? When you open TCP/IP properties is DHCP enabled or is it static? Another thing is to open up the command line and type "ipconfig", see what you are pulling up. If it is 0.0.0.0. then DHCP client is disabled. Otherwise if the IP address begins with 169.xxx.xxx.xx then there is a connection problem. This can be resovled possibly by just doing "ipconfig/renew" You might also want to check under the Administration Tools for "Services" (Also in Computer Management). Make sure DHCP and DNS client are running. Also have you tried putting in a static IP and seeing if a connection will work to the router? From dniesen at gmail.com Sun Aug 6 12:25:14 2006 From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan Niesen) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 12:25:14 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Open Source Network Connection utility for Windows In-Reply-To: <44D6156D.6060403@mn.rr.com> References: <44D6156D.6060403@mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <47f4d5e70608061025m6db16a0du51034426c3c47c01@mail.gmail.com> Two utilities I use on a lot of client machines where the network connection gets hosed: Winsock XP fix (fixes 90% of issues): http://www.snapfiles.com/get/winsockxpfix.html Dial-a-Fix (fixes more obscure issues, go into tools and reset network): http://wiki.djlizard.net/Dial-a-fix#Mirrors.2Fdownload_locations.2C_and_articles Wouldn't hurt to run a check for viruses either. I've seen a number of poorly written Windows worms nuke a connection. AVG Free is generally solid (and free!): http://free.grisoft.com On 8/6/06, Eugene Samuel wrote: > Greetings all, > Please do not flame me for asking a windows question. > Problem: I reinstalled Windows XP on my daughters computer and I am > unable to acquire an IP address from D-Link router. However, when I boot > up with Knoppix live cd there is no problem establishing a network > connection. > Any thoughts? > Eugene > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Donovan Niesen From swaite at sbn-services.com Sun Aug 6 12:27:53 2006 From: swaite at sbn-services.com (Sean Waite) Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2006 12:27:53 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OS alternative to Alt-Ns mDaemon/Worldclient Message-ID: <1154885274.4444.22.camel@Thor.sbn-services.com> Hoping some here might be familiar with Alt-N's mDaemon (www.altn.com) I am looking for an alternative to run under Linux. Although I find mDaemon to be one of the absolute best mail servers out there for my needs, I do have a need though for Linux based. Now the mail server component is no issue. Any basic Fedora or Suse install can provide me with IMAP. Heck, if I want to I can install Open-Xchange. The problem is, with mDaemon comes the WorldClient IM and e-mail client. And this is where I get stuck finding an alternative. I have recently scoured through some Jabber clients, but to date all our pure IM. The WorldClient functions as both an Instant Messenger as well as direct connection to the mail server to show/alert e-mails, how many in whatever folder, etc.. I guess what I am long-winded trying to ask is this, is anyone familiar with a IM type client similar to WorldClient that I can use to connect with any standard IMAP server? Note, this does have to have a Windows version as well since 80% of the clients run Windows. Ideally I would like a IM client that would be tightly integrated to the e-mail server. As for the webbased function of WorldClient, that is already solved by Groupoffice. From jeruvin at gmail.com Sun Aug 6 14:43:40 2006 From: jeruvin at gmail.com (jason reynolds) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 14:43:40 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Open Source Network Connection utility for Windows In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70608061025m6db16a0du51034426c3c47c01@mail.gmail.com> References: <44D6156D.6060403@mn.rr.com> <47f4d5e70608061025m6db16a0du51034426c3c47c01@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6eb23c4e0608061243t38d0fbd9r471fd34496c670e2@mail.gmail.com> I'm a big fan of Avast Antivirus and they also have a free version. I have seen a couple (very few and AVG is great software also) slow down a computer once it's installed. So if AVG slows down your computer a lot try avast. www.avast.com On 8/6/06, Donovan Niesen wrote: > > Two utilities I use on a lot of client machines where the network > connection gets hosed: > > Winsock XP fix (fixes 90% of issues): > > http://www.snapfiles.com/get/winsockxpfix.html > > Dial-a-Fix (fixes more obscure issues, go into tools and reset network): > > > http://wiki.djlizard.net/Dial-a-fix#Mirrors.2Fdownload_locations.2C_and_articles > > Wouldn't hurt to run a check for viruses either. I've seen a number > of poorly written Windows worms nuke a connection. AVG Free is > generally solid (and free!): > > http://free.grisoft.com > > > > On 8/6/06, Eugene Samuel wrote: > > Greetings all, > > Please do not flame me for asking a windows question. > > Problem: I reinstalled Windows XP on my daughters computer and I am > > unable to acquire an IP address from D-Link router. However, when I boot > > up with Knoppix live cd there is no problem establishing a network > > connection. > > Any thoughts? > > Eugene > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -- > Donovan Niesen > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060806/5594a24c/attachment.htm From j_wrocky at comcast.net Tue Aug 8 05:55:31 2006 From: j_wrocky at comcast.net (j_wrocky at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 10:55:31 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on Saturday Aug 12 Message-ID: <080820061055.26767.44D86DA3000D12780000688F220702095397050C019D99A106@comcast.net> Would like to attend the Linux on Saturday meeting. Have no wheels, could I catch a ride with someone? I live in South St Paul about two miles north of 494 & Concord. Will help pay for gas! Jerry W From jima at beer.tclug.org Tue Aug 8 08:00:19 2006 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 08:00:19 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on Saturday Aug 12 In-Reply-To: <080820061055.26767.44D86DA3000D12780000688F220702095397050C019D99A106@comcast.net> References: <080820061055.26767.44D86DA3000D12780000688F220702095397050C019D99A106@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Aug 2006, j_wrocky at comcast.net wrote: > Would like to attend the Linux on Saturday meeting. Have no wheels, > could I catch a ride with someone? I live in South St Paul about two > miles north of 494 & Concord. Will help pay for gas! I can't help you on this (as I'm not going), but could you please specify in the future that you're referring to the Twin Cities PC User Group's meetings, and not TCLUG's? The last time you solicited a ride, someone showed up in #tclug *really confused* as to why we didn't announce the meeting. Your messages aren't even ambiguous; they're flat-out misleading. :P Nothing against TCPC, it's just that when you talk about Linux meetings on Saturdays on this list, you really should elaborate. (Kudos to TCPC for bringing Linux to a wider audience, BTW.) Jima From admin at lctn.org Tue Aug 8 10:52:13 2006 From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 10:52:13 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] sendmail quirky today Message-ID: <1428.64.8.148.29.1155052333.squirrel@lctn.org> I have a school mail server on a Centos 4.2 box that has been running fine for almost a year. We haven't made any changes on it for many months. Today I got a call from a staff member saying no one could retrieve or send email. We relay the mail to this server after scanning for spam. Nothing has been changed on that server either. Messages sent to their domain get bounced back from our relay server with the following info: ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to [x.x.x.x]: >>> DATA <<< 550 relay not permitted 550 5.1.1 ... User unknown <<< 503 valid RCPT command must precede DATA This happens for every user. Their log file only shows pop3 logins. When I attempt to restart sendmail I get: Failed to start sendmail : Starting sendmail: [ OK ] Starting sm-client: exim abandoned: unknown, malformed, or incomplete option -L [FAILED] Any idea what to do here? Raymond -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From hewhocutsdown at gmail.com Tue Aug 8 11:36:16 2006 From: hewhocutsdown at gmail.com (Jordan Peacock) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 11:36:16 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for an ISP In-Reply-To: References: <44AF2EAE.2080100@tcq.net> <1c0330920607072158g4a8cd3a2yca50e8b4b619fad7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Found an ISP. Been moving the last week or so, but as of today, iphouse should have my line up & running. I'm right near the edge of qwest territory, but close enough to get a decent connection. Thanks for all your input and contributions, I really sifted through and checked out varying offers before coming to a final decision. All the best -jordan On 7/10/06, Jay Austad wrote: > Contrary to some of the other postings in this thread, I have had > great luck with Comcast (except when they brought me 4 dead modems in > a row, I have my own now) > > I'm paying for their business service though, $93 a month for 10MB > down/768k up. It's "supposed" to be a static IP (still assigned via > DHCP), but if I whack in a new firewall that has a different MAC > addy, it changes. Not a huge deal, I think I'm done switching > firewalls for awhile. > > When they were ATT Broadband, I had nothing but problems. When do we > all get to have fiber right into our basements??? My buddy has > phone, TV, and internet over fiber down in rochester. > > ~jay > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Tue Aug 8 12:29:53 2006 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 12:29:53 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] sendmail quirky today In-Reply-To: <1428.64.8.148.29.1155052333.squirrel@lctn.org> References: <1428.64.8.148.29.1155052333.squirrel@lctn.org> Message-ID: <20060808172953.GA15925@mail.el-swifto.com> On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 10:52:13AM -0500, admin at lctn.org wrote: > I have a school mail server on a Centos 4.2 box that has been running fine > for almost a year. We haven't made any changes on it for many months. > Today I got a call from a staff member saying no one could retrieve or > send email. We relay the mail to this server after scanning for spam. > Nothing has been changed on that server either. Messages sent to their > domain get bounced back from our relay server with the following info: [snip] I Googled for that error message, and found several hits. Did you STFW before posting? -- trammell at el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota From tclug at natecarlson.com Tue Aug 8 14:28:31 2006 From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 14:28:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] sendmail quirky today In-Reply-To: <1428.64.8.148.29.1155052333.squirrel@lctn.org> References: <1428.64.8.148.29.1155052333.squirrel@lctn.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Aug 2006, admin at lctn.org wrote: > I have a school mail server on a Centos 4.2 box that has been running > fine for almost a year. We haven't made any changes on it for many > months. Today I got a call from a staff member saying no one could > retrieve or send email. We relay the mail to this server after scanning > for spam. Nothing has been changed on that server either. <..> > Failed to start sendmail : > Starting sendmail: [ OK ] > Starting sm-client: exim abandoned: unknown, malformed, or incomplete > option -L > [FAILED] > > Any idea what to do here? Sounds like someone installed Exim. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | | depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From admin at lctn.org Tue Aug 8 15:21:56 2006 From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 15:21:56 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] sendmail quirky today In-Reply-To: References: <1428.64.8.148.29.1155052333.squirrel@lctn.org> Message-ID: <1083.70.203.229.204.1155068516.squirrel@lctn.org> > Sounds like someone installed Exim. That is the way it looks, except I am the only one with root access to the server, and I only run sendmail. Any idea how to revert things back, so Exim is not being called by sm-client? -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From tclug at natecarlson.com Tue Aug 8 15:20:28 2006 From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 15:20:28 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] sendmail quirky today In-Reply-To: <1083.70.203.229.204.1155068516.squirrel@lctn.org> References: <1428.64.8.148.29.1155052333.squirrel@lctn.org> <1083.70.203.229.204.1155068516.squirrel@lctn.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Aug 2006, admin at lctn.org wrote: >> Sounds like someone installed Exim. > > That is the way it looks, except I am the only one with root access to > the server, and I only run sendmail. Any idea how to revert things back, > so Exim is not being called by sm-client? Dunno.. something like this? rpm -qa | grep exim rpm -V sendmail rpm -V exim rpm -e exim ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | | depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From ewilts at ewilts.org Tue Aug 8 15:28:29 2006 From: ewilts at ewilts.org (Ed Wilts) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 15:28:29 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] sendmail quirky today In-Reply-To: <1083.70.203.229.204.1155068516.squirrel@lctn.org> References: <1428.64.8.148.29.1155052333.squirrel@lctn.org> <1083.70.203.229.204.1155068516.squirrel@lctn.org> Message-ID: <20060808202829.GA13388@www.ewilts.org> On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 03:21:56PM -0500, admin at lctn.org wrote: > > Sounds like someone installed Exim. > > > That is the way it looks, except I am the only one with root access to the > server, and I only run sendmail. Any idea how to revert things back, so > Exim is not being called by sm-client? Well, you've said that nobody made any changes and in fact you haven't even installed recent security patches. It now looks at a quick glance that somebody made changes to your system that require root but you think you're the only one with root access. If a change was made that requires root, then somebody else has root access. If it's not you, then you have been root'ed. Nothing you can do will fix it at this point. If you're really, really sure that a root-level change was made, then it's time to rebuild the system from scratch. .../Ed -- Ed Wilts, RHCE Mounds View, MN, USA mailto:ewilts at ewilts.org Member #1, Red Hat Community Ambassador Program From robbyt at gmail.com Tue Aug 8 16:46:05 2006 From: robbyt at gmail.com (Rob Terhaar) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 16:46:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on Saturday Aug 12 In-Reply-To: References: <080820061055.26767.44D86DA3000D12780000688F220702095397050C019D99A106@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1f663090608081446y2a61f465m5b5244ca60621e9f@mail.gmail.com> On 8/8/06, Jima wrote: > > On Tue, 8 Aug 2006, j_wrocky at comcast.net wrote: > > Would like to attend the Linux on Saturday meeting. Have no wheels, > > could I catch a ride with someone? I live in South St Paul about two > > miles north of 494 & Concord. Will help pay for gas! > > I can't help you on this (as I'm not going), but could you please > specify > in the future that you're referring to the Twin Cities PC User Group's > meetings, and not TCLUG's? The last time you solicited a ride, someone > showed up in #tclug *really confused* as to why we didn't announce the > meeting. Your messages aren't even ambiguous; they're flat-out > misleading. :P > Nothing against TCPC, it's just that when you talk about Linux meetings > on Saturdays on this list, you really should elaborate. > (Kudos to TCPC for bringing Linux to a wider audience, BTW.) > > Jima > > hey i'm new to the list :) Is there going to be a tclug beer meeting this month? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060808/6d3e411a/attachment.htm From cschumann at twp-llc.com Tue Aug 8 22:03:51 2006 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 22:03:51 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Bandwidth Use Cause, anyone? Message-ID: <200608090303.k7933ltF004057@delta.twp-llc.com> The ISP of my company's server called because our bandwidth was spiking. No one was logged in, and I'm not sure how to pinpoint what caused the traffic. Tips or pointers on where to track this down are most sincerely appreciated. Many thanks, Chris Schumann From thecubic at thecubic.net Tue Aug 8 23:39:31 2006 From: thecubic at thecubic.net (David Carlson) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 23:39:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Bandwidth Use Cause, anyone? In-Reply-To: <200608090303.k7933ltF004057@delta.twp-llc.com> References: <200608090303.k7933ltF004057@delta.twp-llc.com> Message-ID: <24550.163.231.6.66.1155098371.squirrel@castor.thecubic.net> 0) Absolutely distrust the server in question. If it appears that users aren't logged in, don't believe it. That goes for most admin utilities (w,users,uptime). Don't think you can delete things and restart it - you want to reimage the OS. 1) Ask the ISP if they detect promiscuous mode (meaning suspicious ARP) coming from the server 2) nmap or have the ISP nmap the server (from a nearby host) 3) Check for strange traffic with tcpdump/tshark (exclude the login traffic port with [(tshark) -f] 'not port 22', etc). This is probably only useful from another machine that sees all the traffic from that machine. 4) Check for rootkits. http://www.chkrootkit.org This isn't totally reliable though. 5) Sniff (or, better, have the ISP sniff and deliver) some outgoing traffic and analyze it with wireshark GUI. If any of the tests show something wrong, have the ISP cut power (don't run 'halt') forcefully. Save the hard drive image somewhere for forensics (don't boot off of it). You will likely have to rebuild the server - the only thing you should copy over are user files that have been examined. -Dave On Tue, August 8, 2006 10:03 pm, Chris Schumann wrote: > The ISP of my company's server called because our bandwidth was spiking. > No > one was logged in, and I'm not sure how to pinpoint what caused the > traffic. > > Tips or pointers on where to track this down are most sincerely > appreciated. > > Many thanks, > Chris Schumann > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=- David Carlson thecubic at thecubic.net From admin at lctn.org Wed Aug 9 05:35:59 2006 From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 05:35:59 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] sendmail quirky today In-Reply-To: <20060808202829.GA13388@www.ewilts.org> References: <1428.64.8.148.29.1155052333.squirrel@lctn.org> <1083.70.203.229.204.1155068516.squirrel@lctn.org> <20060808202829.GA13388@www.ewilts.org> Message-ID: <56929.204.212.34.10.1155119759.squirrel@lctn.org> There was no trace of exim on the server. A new install of sendmail fixed it. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From tclug at natecarlson.com Wed Aug 9 09:11:20 2006 From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 09:11:20 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] sendmail quirky today In-Reply-To: <56929.204.212.34.10.1155119759.squirrel@lctn.org> References: <1428.64.8.148.29.1155052333.squirrel@lctn.org> <1083.70.203.229.204.1155068516.squirrel@lctn.org> <20060808202829.GA13388@www.ewilts.org> <56929.204.212.34.10.1155119759.squirrel@lctn.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Aug 2006, admin at lctn.org wrote: > There was no trace of exim on the server. A new install of sendmail > fixed it. Did you figure out what broken it? The 'rpm -V sendmail' should've helped with that.. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | | depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From admin at lctn.org Wed Aug 9 09:48:11 2006 From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 09:48:11 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] sendmail quirky today In-Reply-To: References: <1428.64.8.148.29.1155052333.squirrel@lctn.org><1083.70.203.229.204.1155068516.squirrel@lctn.org><20060808202829.GA13388@www.ewilts.org><56929.204.212.34.10.1155119759.squirrel@lctn.org> Message-ID: <52417.204.212.34.10.1155134891.squirrel@lctn.org> > Did you figure out what broken it? I don't recall what -V displayed. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From drue at therub.org Wed Aug 9 10:07:25 2006 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 10:07:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Bandwidth Use Cause, anyone? In-Reply-To: <24550.163.231.6.66.1155098371.squirrel@castor.thecubic.net> References: <200608090303.k7933ltF004057@delta.twp-llc.com> <24550.163.231.6.66.1155098371.squirrel@castor.thecubic.net> Message-ID: <20060809150725.GT38466@therub.org> Whoa. There could be a number of legitimate things wrong that could cause bandwidth to spike. Check the logs for all the services you're running. Sometimes a poorly behaved web spider or some idiot doing a wget --mirror can really cause problems (ask me how I know). For the future, set up graphs using mrtg or rrdtool and friends so that you know what is going on. Maybe the isp is just seeing a daily cron backup or something? Hard to say without more details, or the graphs themselves. To monitor in real time, check out iftop - it's a top like interface that shows current connections and kbps. Unless you have further evidence of being hacked, the prudent thing to do is check the obvious and legitimate things first. Dan On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 11:39:31PM -0500, David Carlson wrote: > 0) Absolutely distrust the server in question. If it appears that users > aren't logged in, don't believe it. That goes for most admin utilities > (w,users,uptime). Don't think you can delete things and restart it - you > want to reimage the OS. > > 1) Ask the ISP if they detect promiscuous mode (meaning suspicious ARP) > coming from the server > > 2) nmap or have the ISP nmap the server (from a nearby host) > > 3) Check for strange traffic with tcpdump/tshark (exclude the login > traffic port with [(tshark) -f] 'not port 22', etc). This is probably > only useful from another machine that sees all the traffic from that > machine. > > 4) Check for rootkits. http://www.chkrootkit.org > This isn't totally reliable though. > > 5) Sniff (or, better, have the ISP sniff and deliver) some outgoing > traffic and analyze it with wireshark GUI. > > If any of the tests show something wrong, have the ISP cut power (don't > run 'halt') forcefully. Save the hard drive image somewhere for forensics > (don't boot off of it). You will likely have to rebuild the server - the > only thing you should copy over are user files that have been examined. > > -Dave > > On Tue, August 8, 2006 10:03 pm, Chris Schumann wrote: > > The ISP of my company's server called because our bandwidth was spiking. > > No > > one was logged in, and I'm not sure how to pinpoint what caused the > > traffic. > > > > Tips or pointers on where to track this down are most sincerely > > appreciated. > > > > Many thanks, > > Chris Schumann > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > David Carlson > thecubic at thecubic.net > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jus at krytosvirus.com Wed Aug 9 21:13:20 2006 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 21:13:20 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Bandwidth Use Cause, anyone? In-Reply-To: <11872929.1155137558823.JavaMail.root@sniper7> References: <200608090303.k7933ltF004057@delta.twp-llc.com> <24550.163.231.6.66.1155098371.squirrel@castor.thecubic.net> <11872929.1155137558823.JavaMail.root@sniper7> Message-ID: <200608092113.21481.jus@krytosvirus.com> -ntop is great. -Check for processes gone crazy. -check logs for suspicious or large activity. -assuming you're using iptables dump your per-rule packet/byte counts every 5 minutes with a timestamp and see if there is a significant jump during the timeframe your ISP indicates. and add some LOG rules to iptables. On Wednesday 09 August 2006 10:07, Dan Rue wrote: > Whoa. There could be a number of legitimate things wrong that could > cause bandwidth to spike. > > Check the logs for all the services you're running. Sometimes a poorly > behaved web spider or some idiot doing a wget --mirror can really cause > problems (ask me how I know). > > For the future, set up graphs using mrtg or rrdtool and friends so that > you know what is going on. Maybe the isp is just seeing a daily cron > backup or something? Hard to say without more details, or the graphs > themselves. > > To monitor in real time, check out iftop - it's a top like interface > that shows current connections and kbps. > > Unless you have further evidence of being hacked, the prudent thing to > do is check the obvious and legitimate things first. > > Dan > > On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 11:39:31PM -0500, David Carlson wrote: > > 0) Absolutely distrust the server in question. If it appears that users > > aren't logged in, don't believe it. That goes for most admin utilities > > (w,users,uptime). Don't think you can delete things and restart it - you > > want to reimage the OS. > > > > 1) Ask the ISP if they detect promiscuous mode (meaning suspicious ARP) > > coming from the server > > > > 2) nmap or have the ISP nmap the server (from a nearby host) > > > > 3) Check for strange traffic with tcpdump/tshark (exclude the login > > traffic port with [(tshark) -f] 'not port 22', etc). This is probably > > only useful from another machine that sees all the traffic from that > > machine. > > > > 4) Check for rootkits. http://www.chkrootkit.org > > This isn't totally reliable though. > > > > 5) Sniff (or, better, have the ISP sniff and deliver) some outgoing > > traffic and analyze it with wireshark GUI. > > > > If any of the tests show something wrong, have the ISP cut power (don't > > run 'halt') forcefully. Save the hard drive image somewhere for > > forensics (don't boot off of it). You will likely have to rebuild the > > server - the only thing you should copy over are user files that have > > been examined. > > > > -Dave > > > > On Tue, August 8, 2006 10:03 pm, Chris Schumann wrote: > > > The ISP of my company's server called because our bandwidth was > > > spiking. No > > > one was logged in, and I'm not sure how to pinpoint what caused the > > > traffic. > > > > > > Tips or pointers on where to track this down are most sincerely > > > appreciated. > > > > > > Many thanks, > > > Chris Schumann > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > David Carlson > > thecubic at thecubic.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Thu Aug 10 08:58:27 2006 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 08:58:27 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Bandwidth Use Cause, anyone? In-Reply-To: <24550.163.231.6.66.1155098371.squirrel@castor.thecubic.net> References: <200608090303.k7933ltF004057@delta.twp-llc.com> <24550.163.231.6.66.1155098371.squirrel@castor.thecubic.net> Message-ID: <914f813c0608100658v4548b442wd4b7a2d842555a6f@mail.gmail.com> On 8/8/06, David Carlson wrote: > 0) Absolutely distrust the server in question. If it appears that users > aren't logged in, don't believe it. That goes for most admin utilities > (w,users,uptime). Don't think you can delete things and restart it - you > want to reimage the OS. > > 1) Ask the ISP if they detect promiscuous mode (meaning suspicious ARP) > coming from the server > > 2) nmap or have the ISP nmap the server (from a nearby host) > > 3) Check for strange traffic with tcpdump/tshark (exclude the login > traffic port with [(tshark) -f] 'not port 22', etc). This is probably > only useful from another machine that sees all the traffic from that > machine. > > 4) Check for rootkits. http://www.chkrootkit.org > This isn't totally reliable though. If you go through this process, realize that *if* there is a compromise, the output from any of these programs run on the local system is suspect. What's more, by going over everything with a fine-tooth comb, you may have eliminated any timestamp evidence that may have been on the system. Unless of course, you mount your [reiser-only??] partitions noatime, in which case there are no access timestamps anyway. > 5) Sniff (or, better, have the ISP sniff and deliver) some outgoing > traffic and analyze it with wireshark GUI. This should be your first step in the case you've described. Use a separate system and sniff both incoming and outgoing traffic between your server and the ISP using tcpdump or wireshark (formerly ethereal) in promiscuous mode. Examine this traffic for any connections to overseas IP blocks (whois 1.2.3.4), IRC traffic, and suspicious traffic that should be there. For instance, if you did not have FTP running at all, and you see FTP commands over the wire, destined for port 34343, you likely have a compromised server. Ideally, you find nothing and find something like an errant process, as mentioned by another poster. > If any of the tests show something wrong, have the ISP cut power (don't > run 'halt') forcefully. Save the hard drive image somewhere for forensics > (don't boot off of it). You will likely have to rebuild the server - the > only thing you should copy over are user files that have been examined. If you find nothing, rpm and apt both have functionality to verify the validity of installed software packages, ensuring MD5 checksums match up with the original installation. When run from a bootable CD, this can serve to validate your system's integrity. In any case, once you rebuild/restore "normal" service, investigate using tools like AIDE, OSSIM, or Samhain, which are all host-based intrusion detection systems. You may have heard of tripwire, another partially-free example of an HIDS. From natecars at natecarlson.com Thu Aug 10 22:59:59 2006 From: natecars at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 22:59:59 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Systems Administrator position open Message-ID: Hey all, Sent this to the jobs list, and haven't gotten a response from anyone on the list.. kind of surprised me, considering the number of geeks that I know have been looking for jobs, so I figured I'd try forwarding it to the main list. :) Give me a shout if you're interested.. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | | depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 15:09:45 -0500 (CDT) From: Nate Carlson To: tclug-jobs at mn-linux.org Subject: [tclug-jobs] Linux Systems Administrator position open The company I work for (Internet Broadcasting) is currently looking for another systems administrator. This person will be specifically tasked to our NBC Sports project to start with (and will need to be able to work during game days - right now, 4-5 hours on Saturdays and Sundays), but will eventually likely join our "standard" sysadmin rotation. Our serving environment is almost all Linux; however, desktops and such (well, besides mine) are Windows.. and yeah, until we get our Exchange server upgraded, you have to use Lookout! Besides that, it's a nice relaxed work environment for a reasonably small employer. I like it, at least. :) If you're interested, the posting is here: http://www.ibsys.com/jobopenings/9412377/detail.html Feel free to contact me if you've got any questions. Also, if I know you, I'd be happy to forward your resume to the powers-that-be for you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | | depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ tclug-jobs mailing list tclug-jobs at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-jobs From jus at krytosvirus.com Thu Aug 10 23:28:04 2006 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 23:28:04 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Bandwidth Use Cause, anyone? In-Reply-To: <14841855.1155176326778.JavaMail.root@Sniper29> References: <200608090303.k7933ltF004057@delta.twp-llc.com> <11872929.1155137558823.JavaMail.root@sniper7> <14841855.1155176326778.JavaMail.root@Sniper29> Message-ID: <200608102328.04832.jus@krytosvirus.com> Just read about this program called nethogs - http://nethogs.sourceforge.net/ On Wednesday 09 August 2006 21:13, Justin Krejci wrote: > -ntop is great. > -Check for processes gone crazy. > -check logs for suspicious or large activity. > -assuming you're using iptables dump your per-rule packet/byte counts every > 5 minutes with a timestamp and see if there is a significant jump during > the timeframe your ISP indicates. and add some LOG rules to iptables. > > On Wednesday 09 August 2006 10:07, Dan Rue wrote: > > Whoa. There could be a number of legitimate things wrong that could > > cause bandwidth to spike. > > > > Check the logs for all the services you're running. Sometimes a poorly > > behaved web spider or some idiot doing a wget --mirror can really cause > > problems (ask me how I know). > > > > For the future, set up graphs using mrtg or rrdtool and friends so that > > you know what is going on. Maybe the isp is just seeing a daily cron > > backup or something? Hard to say without more details, or the graphs > > themselves. > > > > To monitor in real time, check out iftop - it's a top like interface > > that shows current connections and kbps. > > > > Unless you have further evidence of being hacked, the prudent thing to > > do is check the obvious and legitimate things first. > > > > Dan > > > > On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 11:39:31PM -0500, David Carlson wrote: > > > 0) Absolutely distrust the server in question. If it appears that > > > users aren't logged in, don't believe it. That goes for most admin > > > utilities (w,users,uptime). Don't think you can delete things and > > > restart it - you want to reimage the OS. > > > > > > 1) Ask the ISP if they detect promiscuous mode (meaning suspicious ARP) > > > coming from the server > > > > > > 2) nmap or have the ISP nmap the server (from a nearby host) > > > > > > 3) Check for strange traffic with tcpdump/tshark (exclude the login > > > traffic port with [(tshark) -f] 'not port 22', etc). This is probably > > > only useful from another machine that sees all the traffic from that > > > machine. > > > > > > 4) Check for rootkits. http://www.chkrootkit.org > > > This isn't totally reliable though. > > > > > > 5) Sniff (or, better, have the ISP sniff and deliver) some outgoing > > > traffic and analyze it with wireshark GUI. > > > > > > If any of the tests show something wrong, have the ISP cut power (don't > > > run 'halt') forcefully. Save the hard drive image somewhere for > > > forensics (don't boot off of it). You will likely have to rebuild the > > > server - the only thing you should copy over are user files that have > > > been examined. > > > > > > -Dave > > > > > > On Tue, August 8, 2006 10:03 pm, Chris Schumann wrote: > > > > The ISP of my company's server called because our bandwidth was > > > > spiking. No > > > > one was logged in, and I'm not sure how to pinpoint what caused the > > > > traffic. > > > > > > > > Tips or pointers on where to track this down are most sincerely > > > > appreciated. > > > > > > > > Many thanks, > > > > Chris Schumann > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > > David Carlson > > > thecubic at thecubic.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Fri Aug 11 22:22:01 2006 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 22:22:01 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200608120322.k7C3M1V05148@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Free Subject: misc. free books i have a variety of technology books and such that i'm in the process of cleaning out. these titles have some durability in terms of subject matter content, so it's not like they're tied to a specific release of something. (the exception being a mathematica handbook) if you're interested, drop me an email and we can make pickup arrangements. Seller Email address: sulrich at gmail dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From hbaskets at earthlink.net Mon Aug 14 10:50:06 2006 From: hbaskets at earthlink.net (hbaskets) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:50:06 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] laptop question Message-ID: <44E09BAE.2010407@earthlink.net> Hi. Looking to add a laptop and wondering if there are any thoughts on Linuxcertified.com as an option for purchasing a laptop or if there are any suggestions on best approach for a laptop. Thank you. Heather From tipsy_in_chicago at yahoo.com Mon Aug 14 12:43:30 2006 From: tipsy_in_chicago at yahoo.com (Tipsy-in_Chicago Tipsy) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:43:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor Message-ID: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hello, I am an absolute newbie to the world of Linux. I am interested in developing linux administrative skills. Is self learning the best route? If so, any books that will be helpful? I am also open to taking classes. Kindly, get back to me with the best approach. Thanks KT --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060814/406be1f8/attachment.htm From srcfoo at gmail.com Mon Aug 14 13:04:55 2006 From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:04:55 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor In-Reply-To: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <579c6fd30608141104l150848cev4612dc7de5d89b70@mail.gmail.com> Congratulations on your decision to learn Linux server administration skills. The best approach that I can recommend is to start using Linux as much as possible. What I mean by that is install it and use it as your primary desktop. Setup a Samba file server, Apache web server, etc. and implement your own home network. You can read all the books in the world (I'm still working on this :) ), but you really need to use it if you want to learn it. Good luck! -Eric On 8/14/06, Tipsy-in_Chicago Tipsy wrote: > Hello, > > I am an absolute newbie to the world of Linux. I am interested in developing > linux administrative skills. > > Is self learning the best route? If so, any books that will be helpful? > > I am also open to taking classes. > > Kindly, get back to me with the best approach. > > > Thanks > > KT > > > > > ________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From hewhocutsdown at gmail.com Mon Aug 14 13:05:21 2006 From: hewhocutsdown at gmail.com (Jordan Peacock) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:05:21 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor In-Reply-To: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: My initiation into linux was a little rocky: dialup over in the Middle East, and I decided to brave the waters and try to install it. The 600+MB .iso files were a bit daunting over dialup, and so I opted for the smallest .iso: Gentoo's stage1 cd. For the uninformed, this is a minimalist cd that drops you into a command line and assumes that you can set up networking, etc from there. A few months after that I tried out Mandrake Linux, and the difference was drastic; it was easier to setup than when I had installed Windows XP! Just a few months ago, my wife used my desktop (currently running Ubuntu Linux), and decided to switch her laptop over. I personally would highly recommend grabbing a Ubuntu CD and installing it for the beginner for 3 reasons: 1) It works as a Live CD; you don't need to destroy everything on your hard drive (at first). If you tell your computer to boot from the CD you downloaded instead of the hard drive, it'll run Ubuntu without touching any of your data on the hard drive. When you're done, simply shutdown, eject the CD, and resume operations on (presumably) Windows XP or similar. This applies to all Live CDs. 2) It's well thought out & easy to navigate: try out the live CD and just move around a bit; check out home folders, applications, etc. Everything from the menus to the application divisions is simple and intuitive. My wife, with little/no Linux experience, jumped right in. This applies to all distributions of Linux that utilize GNOME. For a similar ease but different style, some distributions use KDE (which is what I started out with). Mandriva is a good quality distribution that uses KDE by default. Or, Kubuntu is a KDE-default version of Ubuntu. 3) It's package-management system is second-to-none. This holds true for all Debian-based distributions. The .deb is a standardized package format (you will also see .rpm or .tar.gz being tossed about). .deb is wonderful in the sense that if there are conflicts between programs, or dependencies, it will sort it out, or at least tell you of the issue. .rpm does this to some degree, but personally I have had some negative experiences with it. Other people may tell you otherwise. It really, in the end, is up to you. 4) Community support. You'll notice that most of the above are available in other versions of Linux. Red Hat also uses GNOME, Knoppix is a Live CD, Debian uses .deb files, but despite the calibre of documentation and community with some others, I have only seen Ubuntu tied with one other distribution: Gentoo. I would recommend Gentoo once you've been around the block a couple times, but it's definately a difficult pill to swallow initially. Between forums, wikis, irc, mailing lists, etc, virtually every question I have had or trouble spot I have hit has been dealt with, answered, or at least guided me to the point where I can fix things myself. This is often overlooked, but it is as valuable a part of the operating system as any piece of software. Books are helpful, as are tutors, but as I'm finding right now (learning the IBM AS/400 machines/OS atm) there is no comparison to hands-on learning. All of us on the list are available for answering questions, and don't feel pressured to take my advice (regarding Ubuntu) if another distribution has triggered your curiosity. All the best, fellow wanderer -jordan On 8/14/06, Tipsy-in_Chicago Tipsy wrote: > > Hello, > > I am an absolute newbie to the world of Linux. I am interested in > developing linux administrative skills. > > Is self learning the best route? If so, any books that will be helpful? > > I am also open to taking classes. > > Kindly, get back to me with the best approach. > > > Thanks > > KT > > > ------------------------------ > Do you Yahoo!? > Get on board. You're invitedto try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060814/71698367/attachment.htm From joey.rockhold at gmail.com Mon Aug 14 13:08:42 2006 From: joey.rockhold at gmail.com (Joey Rockhold) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:08:42 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor In-Reply-To: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <101e49ea0608141108v7ff2ebd3qb80b86000fdaf7b7@mail.gmail.com> When I found I was having trouble getting into Linux, I bought this book at Barnes and Noble: O'Reilly Running Linux. It is a very thick book, but it is very helpful. It gives you an idea of everything linux does, and quick overviews of how to do it all. It also explains what it is you are doing. It does not tie you to any specific distribution. You do not have to read it front to back (though you learn the most if you do). With this book, I have been able to not ask others for help nearly as much. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/runux4/ - Joey On 8/14/06, Tipsy-in_Chicago Tipsy wrote: > Hello, > > I am an absolute newbie to the world of Linux. I am interested in developing > linux administrative skills. > > Is self learning the best route? If so, any books that will be helpful? > > I am also open to taking classes. > > Kindly, get back to me with the best approach. > > > Thanks > > KT > > > > > ________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From rhavenn at rhavenn.net Mon Aug 14 13:15:18 2006 From: rhavenn at rhavenn.net (Henrik Hudson) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:15:18 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] laptop question In-Reply-To: <44E09BAE.2010407@earthlink.net> References: <44E09BAE.2010407@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200608141315.18624.rhavenn@rhavenn.net> On Monday 14 August 2006 10:50, hbaskets sent a missive stating: > Hi. Looking to add a laptop and wondering if there are any thoughts on > Linuxcertified.com as an option for purchasing a laptop or if there are > any suggestions on best approach for a laptop. > Thank you. > Heather http://www.linux-laptop.net/ http://tuxmobil.org/ are your friends. If you have a particular model you're looking up then Google can help as well. Outside of the built-in modems I have had good luck getting pretty much everything working on my last couple of laptops. Some of the wireless can be tricky, but it alls works in the end. Henrik -- Henrik Hudson rhavenn at rhavenn.net ------------------------------ "There are 10 kinds of people in the world: Those who understand binary and those who don't..." From joey.rockhold at gmail.com Mon Aug 14 13:31:09 2006 From: joey.rockhold at gmail.com (Joey Rockhold) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:31:09 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor In-Reply-To: References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <101e49ea0608141131i3518b131j1196b2261624f9f4@mail.gmail.com> I am not here to start a flame-war over the distribution of choice for Linux. I agree with everything Jordan said about Ubuntu. But I did want to caution that the latest version of Ubuntu (6.06) has a very buggy installer, and many people have a lot of issues with it. I would go to version 5.10 for now if I was going to try Ubuntu. From hewhocutsdown at gmail.com Mon Aug 14 13:36:18 2006 From: hewhocutsdown at gmail.com (Jordan Peacock) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:36:18 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor In-Reply-To: References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <101e49ea0608141131i3518b131j1196b2261624f9f4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: My bad, I was running Ubuntu 5.10 & just ran a distribution upgrade, so I haven't dealt with the installer much. And don't worry about a flame-war; Gentoo, Mandrake and Ubuntu are primarily what I'm familiar with, and with Mandrake being what I started on, and Ubuntu what my wife started on, there's the first hand beginner's experience. On the other hand, I've heard great things about Fedora, or ______. Hence the mailing-list; the collective Twin Cities Linux hive-mind. Have fun, all. -jordan On 8/14/06, Joey Rockhold wrote: > > I am not here to start a flame-war over the distribution of choice for > Linux. I agree with everything Jordan said about Ubuntu. But I did > want to caution that the latest version of Ubuntu (6.06) has a very > buggy installer, and many people have a lot of issues with it. I > would go to version 5.10 for now if I was going to try Ubuntu. > > From personal experience, I can say OpenSuSE 10.1, when installed > without updates, is a bit unstable, but as long as you get all the > current updates, I find it has been running really smooth for me now. > > Like I said, I am not trying to promote one distro over another, just > throught I would throw my 2 cents in. > > - Joey > > On 8/14/06, Jordan Peacock wrote: > > My initiation into linux was a little rocky: dialup over in the Middle > East, > > and I decided to brave the waters and try to install it. The 600+MB .iso > > files were a bit daunting over dialup, and so I opted for the smallest > .iso: > > Gentoo's stage1 cd. > > > > For the uninformed, this is a minimalist cd that drops you into a > command > > line and assumes that you can set up networking, etc from there. > > > > A few months after that I tried out Mandrake Linux, and the difference > was > > drastic; it was easier to setup than when I had installed Windows XP! > > > > Just a few months ago, my wife used my desktop (currently running Ubuntu > > Linux), and decided to switch her laptop over. I personally would highly > > > recommend grabbing a Ubuntu CD and installing it for the beginner for 3 > > reasons: > > > > 1) It works as a Live CD; you don't need to destroy everything on your > hard > > drive (at first). If you tell your computer to boot from the CD you > > downloaded instead of the hard drive, it'll run Ubuntu without touching > any > > of your data on the hard drive. When you're done, simply shutdown, eject > the > > CD, and resume operations on (presumably) Windows XP or similar. This > > applies to all Live CDs. > > > > 2) It's well thought out & easy to navigate: try out the live CD and > just > > move around a bit; check out home folders, applications, etc. Everything > > from the menus to the application divisions is simple and intuitive. My > > wife, with little/no Linux experience, jumped right in. This applies to > all > > distributions of Linux that utilize GNOME. > > > > For a similar ease but different style, some distributions use KDE > (which is > > what I started out with). Mandriva is a good quality distribution that > uses > > KDE by default. Or, Kubuntu is a KDE-default version of Ubuntu. > > > > 3) It's package-management system is second-to-none. This holds true for > all > > Debian-based distributions. The .deb is a standardized package format > (you > > will also see .rpm or .tar.gz being tossed about). .deb is wonderful in > the > > sense that if there are conflicts between programs, or dependencies, it > will > > sort it out, or at least tell you of the issue. .rpm does > > this to some degree, > > but personally I have had some negative experiences with > > it. > > Other people may tell you otherwise. It really, in the end, is up to > you. > > > > 4) Community support. You'll notice that most of the above are available > in > > other versions of Linux. Red Hat also uses GNOME, Knoppix is a Live CD, > > Debian uses .deb files, but despite the calibre of documentation and > > community with some others, I have only seen Ubuntu tied with one other > > distribution: Gentoo. I would recommend Gentoo once you've been around > the > > block a couple times, but it's definately a difficult pill to swallow > > initially. > > > > Between forums, wikis, irc, mailing lists, etc, virtually every question > I > > have had or trouble spot I have hit has been dealt with, answered, or at > > least guided me to the point where I can fix things myself. This is > often > > overlooked, but it is as valuable a part of the operating system as any > > piece of software. > > > > Books are helpful, as are tutors, but as I'm finding right now (learning > the > > IBM AS/400 machines/OS atm) there is no comparison to hands-on learning. > All > > of us on the list are available for answering questions, and don't feel > > pressured to take my advice (regarding Ubuntu) if another distribution > has > > triggered your curiosity. > > > > All the best, fellow wanderer > > > > -jordan > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/14/06, Tipsy-in_Chicago Tipsy < tipsy_in_chicago at yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > I am an absolute newbie to the world of Linux. I am interested in > developing > > linux administrative skills. > > > > Is self learning the best route? If so, any books that will be helpful? > > > > I am also open to taking classes. > > > > Kindly, get back to me with the best approach. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > KT > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060814/1d67f1e0/attachment.htm From nate at ima.umn.edu Mon Aug 14 13:52:21 2006 From: nate at ima.umn.edu (Nate Sanders) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:52:21 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor In-Reply-To: <101e49ea0608141131i3518b131j1196b2261624f9f4@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <101e49ea0608141131i3518b131j1196b2261624f9f4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44E0C665.4000903@ima.umn.edu> Guy says he wants to be an admin? Use the "Alternative" installer with 6.06. It's solid as a rock. Only the "Desktop" installer has issues that I am aware of. I spent 4 years on Linux before I installed X. You want to be an admin, learn to run Linux with no GUI. Joey Rockhold wrote: >I am not here to start a flame-war over the distribution of choice for >Linux. I agree with everything Jordan said about Ubuntu. But I did >want to caution that the latest version of Ubuntu (6.06) has a very >buggy installer, and many people have a lot of issues with it. I >would go to version 5.10 for now if I was going to try Ubuntu. > >>From personal experience, I can say OpenSuSE 10.1, when installed >without updates, is a bit unstable, but as long as you get all the >current updates, I find it has been running really smooth for me now. > >Like I said, I am not trying to promote one distro over another, just >throught I would throw my 2 cents in. > >- Joey > >On 8/14/06, Jordan Peacock wrote: > > >>My initiation into linux was a little rocky: dialup over in the Middle East, >>and I decided to brave the waters and try to install it. The 600+MB .iso >>files were a bit daunting over dialup, and so I opted for the smallest .iso: >>Gentoo's stage1 cd. >> >>For the uninformed, this is a minimalist cd that drops you into a command >>line and assumes that you can set up networking, etc from there. >> >>A few months after that I tried out Mandrake Linux, and the difference was >>drastic; it was easier to setup than when I had installed Windows XP! >> >>Just a few months ago, my wife used my desktop (currently running Ubuntu >>Linux), and decided to switch her laptop over. I personally would highly >>recommend grabbing a Ubuntu CD and installing it for the beginner for 3 >>reasons: >> >>1) It works as a Live CD; you don't need to destroy everything on your hard >>drive (at first). If you tell your computer to boot from the CD you >>downloaded instead of the hard drive, it'll run Ubuntu without touching any >>of your data on the hard drive. When you're done, simply shutdown, eject the >>CD, and resume operations on (presumably) Windows XP or similar. This >>applies to all Live CDs. >> >>2) It's well thought out & easy to navigate: try out the live CD and just >>move around a bit; check out home folders, applications, etc. Everything >>from the menus to the application divisions is simple and intuitive. My >>wife, with little/no Linux experience, jumped right in. This applies to all >>distributions of Linux that utilize GNOME. >> >>For a similar ease but different style, some distributions use KDE (which is >>what I started out with). Mandriva is a good quality distribution that uses >>KDE by default. Or, Kubuntu is a KDE-default version of Ubuntu. >> >>3) It's package-management system is second-to-none. This holds true for all >>Debian-based distributions. The .deb is a standardized package format (you >>will also see .rpm or .tar.gz being tossed about). .deb is wonderful in the >>sense that if there are conflicts between programs, or dependencies, it will >>sort it out, or at least tell you of the issue. .rpm does >>this to some degree, >>but personally I have had some negative experiences with >>it. >> Other people may tell you otherwise. It really, in the end, is up to you. >> >>4) Community support. You'll notice that most of the above are available in >>other versions of Linux. Red Hat also uses GNOME, Knoppix is a Live CD, >>Debian uses .deb files, but despite the calibre of documentation and >>community with some others, I have only seen Ubuntu tied with one other >>distribution: Gentoo. I would recommend Gentoo once you've been around the >>block a couple times, but it's definately a difficult pill to swallow >>initially. >> >>Between forums, wikis, irc, mailing lists, etc, virtually every question I >>have had or trouble spot I have hit has been dealt with, answered, or at >>least guided me to the point where I can fix things myself. This is often >>overlooked, but it is as valuable a part of the operating system as any >>piece of software. >> >>Books are helpful, as are tutors, but as I'm finding right now (learning the >>IBM AS/400 machines/OS atm) there is no comparison to hands-on learning. All >>of us on the list are available for answering questions, and don't feel >>pressured to take my advice (regarding Ubuntu) if another distribution has >>triggered your curiosity. >> >>All the best, fellow wanderer >> >> -jordan >> >> >> >> >> >>On 8/14/06, Tipsy-in_Chicago Tipsy < tipsy_in_chicago at yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> >>Hello, >> >>I am an absolute newbie to the world of Linux. I am interested in developing >>linux administrative skills. >> >>Is self learning the best route? If so, any books that will be helpful? >> >>I am also open to taking classes. >> >>Kindly, get back to me with the best approach. >> >> >>Thanks >> >>KT >> >> >> >> >>________________________________ >>Do you Yahoo!? >> Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list at mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- ============================================== Nate Sanders nate at ima.umn.edu Associate Systems Manager (612) 624 - 4353 http://www.ima.umn.edu/ ============================================== Institute for Mathematics and its Applications University of Minnesota 400 Lind Hall, 207 Church St. SE Minneapolis, MN 55455-0463 ============================================== From s.earl.martin at gmail.com Mon Aug 14 15:00:35 2006 From: s.earl.martin at gmail.com (Sam Martin) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 15:00:35 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor In-Reply-To: <44E0C665.4000903@ima.umn.edu> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <101e49ea0608141131i3518b131j1196b2261624f9f4@mail.gmail.com> <44E0C665.4000903@ima.umn.edu> Message-ID: FYI, most of Ubuntu 6.06's desktop installer bugs seem to have been dealt with in the new batch of ISOs released a few days ago. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseNotes/UbiquityKnownIssues sm From jimstreit at northlans.com Mon Aug 14 15:06:39 2006 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (jimstreit at northlans.com) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 15:06:39 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Off Topic - SAN Equipment Message-ID: <20060814150639.jod9p1qvcwwsskgg@webmail.northlans.com> Sorry for posting a non-Linux related question, but a lot of the people on this list work in the IT industry. This is SAN question. I am currently looking at adding a SAN to my environment and wanted to check with some people who are using either of these products in the "real world" For the sake of this comparison, the SAN will be used for file storage, and the costs are the same. I'm looking for feedback on either or both of solutions: (setup, maintenance, reliability, tech support ...) - Equallogic PS300e & Windows Storage Server R2 NAS, iSCSI or - EMC NS352 Any feed back is appreciated. Thanks Jim Streit From jeruvin at gmail.com Mon Aug 14 19:00:37 2006 From: jeruvin at gmail.com (jason reynolds) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 19:00:37 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor In-Reply-To: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6eb23c4e0608141700h51103573jefe6cc0a240db437@mail.gmail.com> I could be wrong and am very interested in what other are saying on this topic, but I have been using CentOS 4.3 for my servers in my test environment. It's based on Redhat Enterprise 4 and would be a distro I'd recommend if your interested in obtaining Redhat experience (SUSE and Redhat have the largest enterprise install base from what I've read). http://www.centos.org I picked up an issue of Linux Format at a Borders or Barnes and Nobles and may still have a DVD with the full install and some other stuff. Save yourself a download and it's a great magazine. Check it out and see if it's worth it to ya. I know any distro may be used as a server, but if you check out job listings you will see a lot of "Redhat Admin" type listings. At least spend a little time on a RedHat Distro (Fedora and CentOS are what I think of). I agree with the Ubuntu talks as it's a nice little distro. I'd say to try the 6.06 install and if that doesn't work try the 5.10, but I really like running the new stuff. On 8/14/06, Tipsy-in_Chicago Tipsy wrote: > > Hello, > > I am an absolute newbie to the world of Linux. I am interested in > developing linux administrative skills. > > Is self learning the best route? If so, any books that will be helpful? > > I am also open to taking classes. > > Kindly, get back to me with the best approach. > > > Thanks > > KT > > > ------------------------------ > Do you Yahoo!? > Get on board. You're invitedto try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060814/9d828026/attachment.htm From s.earl.martin at gmail.com Mon Aug 14 21:06:47 2006 From: s.earl.martin at gmail.com (Sam Martin) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:06:47 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor In-Reply-To: <6eb23c4e0608141700h51103573jefe6cc0a240db437@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <6eb23c4e0608141700h51103573jefe6cc0a240db437@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: As far as books go, I'd recommend O'Reilly's "Unix Power Tools" (http://safari.oreilly.com/0596003307). It's not linux specific, but if your're interested in getting familiar with command-line *nix tools, it's a solid bet. For getting started with linux, you can't really go wrong with any of the modern crop of live cds. At any rate, it's always handy to have a Knoppix CD lying around if/when you screw something up. sm From jpschewe at mtu.net Tue Aug 15 07:28:23 2006 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 07:28:23 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Problem writing to DVD Message-ID: <1155644903.23575.10.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net> I got a new machine and it has a DVD burner on it. I've got some blank DVD-R discs that I used with my laptop DVD burner. When I try and use them with my desktop cdrecord complains that the disc is unusable. Is this a +/- issue? How do I figure out which my drive supports? Thanks. ________________________________________________________________________ Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe If you see a signature.asc file attached to the message this is my digital signature. See http://www.gnupg.org for more information. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060815/49cb2123/attachment.pgp From jeruvin at gmail.com Tue Aug 15 07:37:55 2006 From: jeruvin at gmail.com (jason reynolds) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 07:37:55 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor In-Reply-To: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6eb23c4e0608150537l3e9c271sdf38e4fb4bc5bcce@mail.gmail.com> I am also working on increasing my "Administrative" quality Linux skills so I can get some more Linux boxes on our network. I don't work for VMWare although this will probably sound like a sales pitch. *sigh* VMWare is a great tool for setting up test networks that will not mess with your current setup. I have a machine with 2GB of RAM (1GB will still let you setup a few virtual machines) where I setup my test machines. If you've never used VMWare you can download a trial that will work for 30-45 days to see if you like it. A few of my favorite features in VMWare: * Setup small network (Can be totally seperate from your network, handy when testing DHCP.) * Snapshots (Ability to revert to the snapshot when you muck something up, not that you would, but just in case.) * Clones (I just found this feature the other week, you can clone a machine and get a multiple machine network up faster, there is even an option where it uses the files from the main clone to save disk space.) * Windows - Linux - Mac OS X (comming soon to intel macs) I also agree with those that say to use Linux as your main operating system. Try out a few Distros and have some fun. Distros are like fruit, they are all tasty in some way and you'll find your favorite. http://www.vmware.com I am currently reading Windows & Linux Integration published by Sybex. It sets up an example network with a Linux Server and Workstation and Windows Server and Workstation and goes from there. I find it a good book since I understand the Windows side of the equation, but not so much the LInux side. Jason Reynolds On 8/14/06, Tipsy-in_Chicago Tipsy wrote: > > Hello, > > I am an absolute newbie to the world of Linux. I am interested in > developing linux administrative skills. > > Is self learning the best route? If so, any books that will be helpful? > > I am also open to taking classes. > > Kindly, get back to me with the best approach. > > > Thanks > > KT > > > ------------------------------ > Do you Yahoo!? > Get on board. You're invitedto try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060815/4c168f56/attachment.htm From jkjones at tcq.net Tue Aug 15 07:48:44 2006 From: jkjones at tcq.net (Kraig Jones) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 07:48:44 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Problem writing to DVD In-Reply-To: <1155644903.23575.10.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net> References: <1155644903.23575.10.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net> Message-ID: <44E1C2AC.5010100@tcq.net> Jon Schewe wrote: >I got a new machine and it has a DVD burner on it. I've got some blank >DVD-R discs that I used with my laptop DVD burner. When I try and use >them with my desktop cdrecord complains that the disc is unusable. Is >this a +/- issue? How do I figure out which my drive supports? > >Thanks. > > Knoppix, I think, has a utility which tells you what a DVD drive supports. I don't remember exactly where I found it -- probably in the "KDE System Information", or the device setup in K3B. Kraig From jimdscott at gmail.com Tue Aug 15 07:47:40 2006 From: jimdscott at gmail.com (jim scott) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 07:47:40 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Problem writing to DVD In-Reply-To: <1155644903.23575.10.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net> References: <1155644903.23575.10.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net> Message-ID: Are you trying to burn a data disc or DVD video? On 8/15/06, Jon Schewe wrote: > > I got a new machine and it has a DVD burner on it. I've got some blank > DVD-R discs that I used with my laptop DVD burner. When I try and use > them with my desktop cdrecord complains that the disc is unusable. Is > this a +/- issue? How do I figure out which my drive supports? > > Thanks. > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe > If you see a signature.asc file attached to the message this is my > digital signature. > See http://www.gnupg.org for more information. > > For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels > nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any > powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all > creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that > is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > -- http://ThreeWayNews.blogspot.com Your source. For everything. Really. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060815/cb874c56/attachment-0001.htm From jpschewe at mtu.net Tue Aug 15 07:52:41 2006 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 07:52:41 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Problem writing to DVD In-Reply-To: References: <1155644903.23575.10.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net> Message-ID: <1155646361.23575.17.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net> Just a data disc. On Tue, 2006-08-15 at 07:47 -0500, jim scott wrote: > Are you trying to burn a data disc or DVD video? > > > On 8/15/06, Jon Schewe wrote: > > I got a new machine and it has a DVD burner on it. I've got > some blank > DVD-R discs that I used with my laptop DVD burner. When I try > and use > them with my desktop cdrecord complains that the disc is > unusable. Is > this a +/- issue? How do I figure out which my drive > supports? > > Thanks. > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe > If you see a signature.asc file attached to the message this > is my > digital signature. > See http://www.gnupg.org for more information. > > For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither > angels > nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any > powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all > creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God > that > is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > -- > http://ThreeWayNews.blogspot.com > Your source. For everything. Really. ________________________________________________________________________ Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe If you see a signature.asc file attached to the message this is my digital signature. See http://www.gnupg.org for more information. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060815/2626ffd6/attachment.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060815/2626ffd6/attachment.pgp From radke at winternet.com Tue Aug 15 08:12:29 2006 From: radke at winternet.com (Joshua Radke) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:12:29 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] System Backup/Recovery Message-ID: Greets, I'm new to the list, but have been enjoying lurking for a few weeks. I'm setting up my company's first linux machine, and would really like to nail the recovery process. I'm using Fedora Core 5 (I know, not the best choice for a server, but I'm kind of into it a ways now) with evms and a kernel modified to include all of the raid/cifs in the kernel proper (2.6.17.8). I can snapshot the root volume and cp -ax all of the files to a separate volume, this works well. When I change grub.conf/fstab and reboot onto the copied volume, I cannot log into either my consoles or the x server, even though the rest of the boot looks fine. From a terminal, I provide any username/password (including root), and there is a flash much too quick to see, and I'm presented with the original login prompt. This can be solved by 'touch'ing .autorelabel on the new root, and rebooting, but I would like to be able to avoid this time consuming step. Does anyone have ideas on how to avoid this? Or ... do the sysadmin types recommend just not using SELinux? I'm really just scratching the surface of it but it does seem to cause some administrative headaches, based on various googling I've done. Thanks, Josh From joey.rockhold at gmail.com Tue Aug 15 08:24:46 2006 From: joey.rockhold at gmail.com (Joey Rockhold) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:24:46 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor In-Reply-To: <101e49ea0608141108v7ff2ebd3qb80b86000fdaf7b7@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <101e49ea0608141108v7ff2ebd3qb80b86000fdaf7b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <101e49ea0608150624p25a701f6l63d9bdb231c243d2@mail.gmail.com> I forgot to mention a site that also helped me some when I was first starting, The Linux Documentation Project. You can find a lot of stuff from full manuals, quick how-tos, and FAQs. Might be worth it to you to skim what is on the site. http://www.tldp.org/ - Joey On 8/14/06, Joey Rockhold wrote: > When I found I was having trouble getting into Linux, I bought this > book at Barnes and Noble: O'Reilly Running Linux. It is a very thick > book, but it is very helpful. It gives you an idea of everything > linux does, and quick overviews of how to do it all. It also explains > what it is you are doing. It does not tie you to any specific > distribution. You do not have to read it front to back (though you > learn the most if you do). With this book, I have been able to not > ask others for help nearly as much. > > http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/runux4/ > > - Joey > > On 8/14/06, Tipsy-in_Chicago Tipsy wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I am an absolute newbie to the world of Linux. I am interested in developing > > linux administrative skills. > > > > Is self learning the best route? If so, any books that will be helpful? > > > > I am also open to taking classes. > > > > Kindly, get back to me with the best approach. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > KT > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > From teeahr1 at gmail.com Tue Aug 15 10:13:11 2006 From: teeahr1 at gmail.com (Pete Daniels) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 10:13:11 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor In-Reply-To: <101e49ea0608150624p25a701f6l63d9bdb231c243d2@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <101e49ea0608141108v7ff2ebd3qb80b86000fdaf7b7@mail.gmail.com> <101e49ea0608150624p25a701f6l63d9bdb231c243d2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f729feb0608150813h5473fb16qc9a552df44ef8230@mail.gmail.com> If you do settle on Ubuntu, check out the new Ubuntu Hacks book, by O'Rielly. A wealth of information. Be aware, though, that it's not really a tutorial, more a collection of individual techniques. But I've learned a lot from it. On 8/15/06, Joey Rockhold wrote: > > I forgot to mention a site that also helped me some when I was first > starting, The Linux Documentation Project. You can find a lot of > stuff from full manuals, quick how-tos, and FAQs. Might be worth it > to you to skim what is on the site. > > http://www.tldp.org/ > > - Joey > > On 8/14/06, Joey Rockhold wrote: > > When I found I was having trouble getting into Linux, I bought this > > book at Barnes and Noble: O'Reilly Running Linux. It is a very thick > > book, but it is very helpful. It gives you an idea of everything > > linux does, and quick overviews of how to do it all. It also explains > > what it is you are doing. It does not tie you to any specific > > distribution. You do not have to read it front to back (though you > > learn the most if you do). With this book, I have been able to not > > ask others for help nearly as much. > > > > http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/runux4/ > > > > - Joey > > > > On 8/14/06, Tipsy-in_Chicago Tipsy wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > I am an absolute newbie to the world of Linux. I am interested in > developing > > > linux administrative skills. > > > > > > Is self learning the best route? If so, any books that will be > helpful? > > > > > > I am also open to taking classes. > > > > > > Kindly, get back to me with the best approach. > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > KT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060815/68833a18/attachment.htm From ewilts at ewilts.org Tue Aug 15 10:54:00 2006 From: ewilts at ewilts.org (Ed Wilts) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 10:54:00 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor In-Reply-To: <6eb23c4e0608150537l3e9c271sdf38e4fb4bc5bcce@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <6eb23c4e0608150537l3e9c271sdf38e4fb4bc5bcce@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060815155400.GB17298@www.ewilts.org> On Tue, Aug 15, 2006 at 07:37:55AM -0500, jason reynolds wrote: > I am also working on increasing my "Administrative" quality Linux skills so > I can get some more Linux boxes on our network. I don't work for VMWare > although this will probably sound like a sales pitch. *sigh* > > VMWare is a great tool for setting up test networks that will not mess with > your current setup. I have a machine with 2GB of RAM (1GB will still let you > setup a few virtual machines) where I setup my test machines. If you've > never used VMWare you can download a trial that will work for 30-45 days to > see if you like it. VMWare server is now free - both both Windows and Linux. You could take your Windows machine and create a Linux guest or build a Linux server and add a Windows guest. My work Windows desktop runs the free server with a Linux guest in it. .../Ed > I also agree with those that say to use Linux as your main operating system. > Try out a few Distros and have some fun. Distros are like fruit, they are > all tasty in some way and you'll find your favorite. If you plan on finding a job that requires Linux, your best bet is to focus on Red Hat Enterprise Linux (or a free distro like CentOS that's based on the RHEL sources). It may not have the latest and greatest features, and it's more server-focused than desktop-focused, but it gets the job done and is used by more enterprises than any other distro. My personal approach to learning Linux was two-fold. First, I made Linux my primary desktop. Secondly, I subscribed to the relevant Linux mailing lists. Then, when questions came through that I didn't know the answer to, I looked them up, tested them, and responded. Over time, I learned more and more and over 2 years ago aced the RHCE exam. Not only do you learn Linux this way, you're helping other newcomers along the way. I've done this with multiple platforms and it's helped a LOT. Before writing the RHCE exam, I also went through every page of the online RHEL documentation and made sure I knew the subject. It took a few months, but it paid off in the end. .../Ed -- Ed Wilts, RHCE Mounds View, MN, USA mailto:ewilts at ewilts.org Member #1, Red Hat Community Ambassador Program From tclug at beitsahour.net Tue Aug 15 12:35:51 2006 From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 12:35:51 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Problem writing to DVD In-Reply-To: <1155644903.23575.10.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net> References: <1155644903.23575.10.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net> Message-ID: <44E205F7.5070709@beitsahour.net> Jon Schewe wrote: > I got a new machine and it has a DVD burner on it. I've got some blank > DVD-R discs that I used with my laptop DVD burner. When I try and use > them with my desktop cdrecord complains that the disc is unusable. Is > this a +/- issue? How do I figure out which my drive supports? No it is probably a cdrecord issue, the author subsidizes his opensource work with selling a commercial version of cdrecord that supperts media larger that 1gig (meaning DVDs) and yes there are unofficial ports of cdrecord but most distributions i've tried did not use them. Those that i have used of the unofficial ports were buggy and produced coasters but there was one application that did work for me, growisofs. Yes the name does not say burn but it does burn DVDs as needed, read the man page. Writing DVDs under linux is finicky at best; try, try and try again. From jimdscott at gmail.com Tue Aug 15 12:46:01 2006 From: jimdscott at gmail.com (jim scott) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 12:46:01 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Problem writing to DVD In-Reply-To: <44E205F7.5070709@beitsahour.net> References: <1155644903.23575.10.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net> <44E205F7.5070709@beitsahour.net> Message-ID: I've had success with growisofs burning DVD video. I've never tried it with data, but I assume it works the same. My only problem has been that growisofs can't tell my burner to work at 8x speed. If you have built your ISO, gnome-baker has also worked for me. I think it is a front end for growisofs. On 8/15/06, Munir Nassar wrote: > > Jon Schewe wrote: > > I got a new machine and it has a DVD burner on it. I've got some blank > > DVD-R discs that I used with my laptop DVD burner. When I try and use > > them with my desktop cdrecord complains that the disc is unusable. Is > > this a +/- issue? How do I figure out which my drive supports? > > No it is probably a cdrecord issue, the author subsidizes his opensource > work with selling a commercial version of cdrecord that supperts media > larger that 1gig (meaning DVDs) and yes there are unofficial ports of > cdrecord but most distributions i've tried did not use them. > > Those that i have used of the unofficial ports were buggy and produced > coasters but there was one application that did work for me, growisofs. > > Yes the name does not say burn but it does burn DVDs as needed, read the > man page. Writing DVDs under linux is finicky at best; try, try and try > again. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- http://ThreeWayNews.blogspot.com Your source. For everything. Really. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060815/5c67509f/attachment.htm From joey.rockhold at gmail.com Tue Aug 15 13:10:02 2006 From: joey.rockhold at gmail.com (Joey Rockhold) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:10:02 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor In-Reply-To: <20060815155400.GB17298@www.ewilts.org> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <6eb23c4e0608150537l3e9c271sdf38e4fb4bc5bcce@mail.gmail.com> <20060815155400.GB17298@www.ewilts.org> Message-ID: <101e49ea0608151110w2c14d88q4eecee84cb674915@mail.gmail.com> Ed (or anyone else): Do you know if the LPI certification is worth anything? - Joey On 8/15/06, Ed Wilts wrote: > On Tue, Aug 15, 2006 at 07:37:55AM -0500, jason reynolds wrote: > > I am also working on increasing my "Administrative" quality Linux skills so > > I can get some more Linux boxes on our network. I don't work for VMWare > > although this will probably sound like a sales pitch. *sigh* > > > > VMWare is a great tool for setting up test networks that will not mess with > > your current setup. I have a machine with 2GB of RAM (1GB will still let you > > setup a few virtual machines) where I setup my test machines. If you've > > never used VMWare you can download a trial that will work for 30-45 days to > > see if you like it. > > VMWare server is now free - both both Windows and Linux. You could take > your Windows machine and create a Linux guest or build a Linux server > and add a Windows guest. > > My work Windows desktop runs the free server with a Linux guest in it. > > .../Ed > > > I also agree with those that say to use Linux as your main operating system. > > Try out a few Distros and have some fun. Distros are like fruit, they are > > all tasty in some way and you'll find your favorite. > > If you plan on finding a job that requires Linux, your best bet is to > focus on Red Hat Enterprise Linux (or a free distro like CentOS that's > based on the RHEL sources). It may not have the latest and greatest > features, and it's more server-focused than desktop-focused, but it gets > the job done and is used by more enterprises than any other distro. > > My personal approach to learning Linux was two-fold. First, I made > Linux my primary desktop. Secondly, I subscribed to the relevant Linux > mailing lists. Then, when questions came through that I didn't know the > answer to, I looked them up, tested them, and responded. Over time, I > learned more and more and over 2 years ago aced the RHCE exam. Not only > do you learn Linux this way, you're helping other newcomers along the > way. I've done this with multiple platforms and it's helped a LOT. > Before writing the RHCE exam, I also went through every page of the > online RHEL documentation and made sure I knew the subject. It took a > few months, but it paid off in the end. > > .../Ed > > -- > Ed Wilts, RHCE > Mounds View, MN, USA > mailto:ewilts at ewilts.org > Member #1, Red Hat Community Ambassador Program > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From ewilts at ewilts.org Tue Aug 15 13:13:43 2006 From: ewilts at ewilts.org (Ed Wilts) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:13:43 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Problem writing to DVD In-Reply-To: <44E205F7.5070709@beitsahour.net> References: <1155644903.23575.10.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net> <44E205F7.5070709@beitsahour.net> Message-ID: <20060815181343.GA19306@www.ewilts.org> On Tue, Aug 15, 2006 at 12:35:51PM -0500, Munir Nassar wrote: > Those that i have used of the unofficial ports were buggy and produced > coasters but there was one application that did work for me, growisofs. > > Yes the name does not say burn but it does burn DVDs as needed, read the > man page. Writing DVDs under linux is finicky at best; try, try and try > again. I've only had to use growisofs twice, both in the last week. It worked out of the box, with no fooling around, and generated two perfect data DVDs - I used it to generate RHEL4 install DVDs from the multiple CDs. .../Ed -- Ed Wilts, RHCE Mounds View, MN, USA mailto:ewilts at ewilts.org Member #1, Red Hat Community Ambassador Program From jimdscott at gmail.com Tue Aug 15 13:38:48 2006 From: jimdscott at gmail.com (jim scott) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:38:48 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Problem writing to DVD In-Reply-To: <20060815181343.GA19306@www.ewilts.org> References: <1155644903.23575.10.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net> <44E205F7.5070709@beitsahour.net> <20060815181343.GA19306@www.ewilts.org> Message-ID: I'm trying to remember off the top of my head the command I use to burn with growisofs. It's something like: growisofs -speed=4 -Z /dev/dvd /path/to/iso For a video DVD, this works especially well, because it builds the ISO for you, then burns it. On 8/15/06, Ed Wilts wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2006 at 12:35:51PM -0500, Munir Nassar wrote: > > Those that i have used of the unofficial ports were buggy and produced > > coasters but there was one application that did work for me, growisofs. > > > > Yes the name does not say burn but it does burn DVDs as needed, read the > > man page. Writing DVDs under linux is finicky at best; try, try and try > > again. > > I've only had to use growisofs twice, both in the last week. It worked > out of the box, with no fooling around, and generated two perfect data > DVDs - I used it to generate RHEL4 install DVDs from the multiple CDs. > > .../Ed > > -- > Ed Wilts, RHCE > Mounds View, MN, USA > mailto:ewilts at ewilts.org > Member #1, Red Hat Community Ambassador Program > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- http://ThreeWayNews.blogspot.com Your source. For everything. Really. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060815/2c3f3e45/attachment.htm From ewilts at ewilts.org Tue Aug 15 14:24:32 2006 From: ewilts at ewilts.org (Ed Wilts) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:24:32 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor In-Reply-To: <101e49ea0608151110w2c14d88q4eecee84cb674915@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <6eb23c4e0608150537l3e9c271sdf38e4fb4bc5bcce@mail.gmail.com> <20060815155400.GB17298@www.ewilts.org> <101e49ea0608151110w2c14d88q4eecee84cb674915@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060815192432.GA20030@www.ewilts.org> On Tue, Aug 15, 2006 at 01:10:02PM -0500, Joey Rockhold wrote: > Ed (or anyone else): > > Do you know if the LPI certification is worth anything? I can't say for sure, but the last time I did a quick job search, I found a lot more hits for jobs that wanted/preferred/needed an RHCE than an LPI. It just seems that a lot more people know what an RHCE certification means and that's just not the case for an LPI cert. Now I will admit that the RHCE exam is *very* expensive (around $800) but I believe that a part of that reason is because it's an all-day hands-on exam. You just don't walk into a testing center, answer 60 multiple-choice questions and leave an hour or two later (the Brocade Certified Fabric Professional Exam I'm studying for is like that - it's a $150 exam that you complete in 90 minutes). For the RHCE exam, you're there fixing broken installations, a system that won't boot, and doing a full install from scratch with a boatload of applications and requirements. .../Ed -- Ed Wilts, RHCE Mounds View, MN, USA mailto:ewilts at ewilts.org Member #1, Red Hat Community Ambassador Program From jima at beer.tclug.org Tue Aug 15 14:37:41 2006 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:37:41 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Problem writing to DVD In-Reply-To: References: <1155644903.23575.10.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net> <44E205F7.5070709@beitsahour.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Aug 2006, jim scott wrote: > If you have built your ISO, gnome-baker has also worked for me. I think it > is a front end for growisofs. K3b is a good KDE front-end for CD/DVD burning, whether or not you have an ISO already. ...and I'm not much of a KDE advocate. :) Jima From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Tue Aug 15 14:50:11 2006 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:50:11 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Problem writing to DVD Message-ID: >>> Jima 08/15/06 2:37 PM >>> > K3b is a good KDE front-end for CD/DVD burning, > whether or not you have an ISO already. I second that endorsement. Troy From jpschewe at mtu.net Tue Aug 15 16:16:14 2006 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 16:16:14 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Problem writing to DVD In-Reply-To: References: <1155644903.23575.10.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net> <44E205F7.5070709@beitsahour.net> Message-ID: <1155676574.23575.97.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net> I tried growisofs as well and got an error: jpschewe at jon:/scratch >ll /dev/hdc brw-rw----+ 1 jpschewe disk 22, 0 2006-07-31 06:50 /dev/hdc jpschewe at jon:/scratch >growisofs -dvd-compat -Z /dev/hdc=tapes4.iso Executing 'builtin_dd if=tapes4.iso of=/dev/hdc obs=32k seek=0' :-[ PERFORM OPC failed with SK=3h/ASC=73h/ACQ=03h]: Input/output error On Tue, 2006-08-15 at 12:46 -0500, jim scott wrote: > I've had success with growisofs burning DVD video. I've never tried it > with data, but I assume it works the same. My only problem has been > that growisofs can't tell my burner to work at 8x speed. > > If you have built your ISO, gnome-baker has also worked for me. I > think it is a front end for growisofs. > > > On 8/15/06, Munir Nassar wrote: > > Jon Schewe wrote: > > I got a new machine and it has a DVD burner on it. I've got > some blank > > DVD-R discs that I used with my laptop DVD burner. When I > try and use > > them with my desktop cdrecord complains that the disc is > unusable. Is > > this a +/- issue? How do I figure out which my drive > supports? > > No it is probably a cdrecord issue, the author subsidizes his > opensource > work with selling a commercial version of cdrecord that > supperts media > larger that 1gig (meaning DVDs) and yes there are unofficial > ports of > cdrecord but most distributions i've tried did not use them. > > Those that i have used of the unofficial ports were buggy and > produced > coasters but there was one application that did work for me, > growisofs. > > Yes the name does not say burn but it does burn DVDs as > needed, read the > man page. Writing DVDs under linux is finicky at best; try, > try and try > again. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -- > http://ThreeWayNews.blogspot.com > Your source. For everything. Really. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ________________________________________________________________________ Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe If you see a signature.asc file attached to the message this is my digital signature. See http://www.gnupg.org for more information. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060815/81a7d518/attachment.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060815/81a7d518/attachment.pgp From jpschewe at mtu.net Tue Aug 15 16:17:01 2006 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 16:17:01 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Problem writing to DVD In-Reply-To: References: <1155644903.23575.10.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net> <44E205F7.5070709@beitsahour.net> Message-ID: <1155676622.23575.99.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net> On Tue, 2006-08-15 at 14:37 -0500, Jima wrote: > On Tue, 15 Aug 2006, jim scott wrote: > > If you have built your ISO, gnome-baker has also worked for me. I think it > > is a front end for growisofs. > > K3b is a good KDE front-end for CD/DVD burning, whether or not you have > an ISO already. > ...and I'm not much of a KDE advocate. :) > That's where I initially got my error from. ________________________________________________________________________ Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe If you see a signature.asc file attached to the message this is my digital signature. See http://www.gnupg.org for more information. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060815/b723e40b/attachment.pgp From markring40 at ippimail.com Tue Aug 15 18:16:53 2006 From: markring40 at ippimail.com (markring40 at ippimail.com) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 00:16:53 +0100 (BST) Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor In-Reply-To: <101e49ea0608150624p25a701f6l63d9bdb231c243d2@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <101e49ea0608141108v7ff2ebd3qb80b86000fdaf7b7@mail.gmail.com> <101e49ea0608150624p25a701f6l63d9bdb231c243d2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <15790.69.76.4.32.1155683813.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> Here is the best Linux book I've come across; Linux Complete (2001) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/078214036X/sr=1-3/qid=1155682946/ref=sr_1_3/104-4635137-2746309?ie=UTF8&s=books I tried Red Hat following the instructions in the above book. I didn't like RH. Corel used to have a linux distro that was easy to install, but no good docs. Then a sys admin for a local, South Dakota ISP gave me (years ago) his Slackware 7.0 CD's. That is the distro that I learned the most from. It has good documentation and it's own package utility. http://www.slackware.com/ By the way, the Slackware Kernel was written by a one-time student of Moorhead State (Patrick Volkerding), where my son starts on Monday! I've been away from linux for over 2 years now and just installed SUSE 10.1. I like it well enough, but I miss the old Slackware Xserver login screens. Anyway just my two bits. Dive in and Have Fun! Mark Ring > I forgot to mention a site that also helped me some when I was first > starting, The Linux Documentation Project. You can find a lot of > stuff from full manuals, quick how-tos, and FAQs. Might be worth it > to you to skim what is on the site. > > http://www.tldp.org/ > > - Joey > > On 8/14/06, Joey Rockhold wrote: >> When I found I was having trouble getting into Linux, I bought this >> book at Barnes and Noble: O'Reilly Running Linux. It is a very thick >> book, but it is very helpful. It gives you an idea of everything >> linux does, and quick overviews of how to do it all. It also explains >> what it is you are doing. It does not tie you to any specific >> distribution. You do not have to read it front to back (though you >> learn the most if you do). With this book, I have been able to not >> ask others for help nearly as much. >> >> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/runux4/ >> >> - Joey >> >> On 8/14/06, Tipsy-in_Chicago Tipsy wrote: >> > Hello, >> > >> > I am an absolute newbie to the world of Linux. I am interested in >> developing >> > linux administrative skills. >> > >> > Is self learning the best route? If so, any books that will be >> helpful? >> > >> > I am also open to taking classes. >> > >> > Kindly, get back to me with the best approach. >> > >> > >> > Thanks >> > >> > KT >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ________________________________ >> > Do you Yahoo!? >> > Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > >> > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Get a free email address at http://www.ippimail.com and support your favorite charity without it costing you a penny. Email for the good guys! From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com Tue Aug 15 19:14:16 2006 From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (Kelly Black) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 19:14:16 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Problem writing to DVD In-Reply-To: <1155676622.23575.99.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net> References: <1155644903.23575.10.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net> <44E205F7.5070709@beitsahour.net> <1155676622.23575.99.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net> Message-ID: <20060816001416.GA7538@localhost.localdomain> I did a little google search and found folks trying different brand media and having good luck with growisofs after getting your specific error. Kelly KB0GBJ From florin at iucha.net Tue Aug 15 20:43:53 2006 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 20:43:53 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor In-Reply-To: <15790.69.76.4.32.1155683813.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <101e49ea0608141108v7ff2ebd3qb80b86000fdaf7b7@mail.gmail.com> <101e49ea0608150624p25a701f6l63d9bdb231c243d2@mail.gmail.com> <15790.69.76.4.32.1155683813.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> Message-ID: <20060816014353.GF12234@iucha.net> On Wed, Aug 16, 2006 at 12:16:53AM +0100, markring40 at ippimail.com wrote: > Here is the best Linux book I've come across; Linux Complete (2001) > > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/078214036X/sr=1-3/qid=1155682946/ref=sr_1_3/104-4635137-2746309?ie=UTF8&s=books Ancient history. Skip ahead a few chapters... > Then a sys admin for a local, South Dakota ISP gave me (years ago) his > Slackware 7.0 CD's. That is the distro that I learned the most from. It > has good documentation and it's own package utility. > http://www.slackware.com/ > > By the way, the Slackware Kernel was written by a one-time student of > Moorhead State (Patrick Volkerding), where my son starts on Monday! The distribution is maintained by a group led by Patrick. Slackware uses the same (modulo misc patches) as every other Linux distribution. Nowadays Slackware became bragging rights for old timers (just as Gentoo is for new-timers) (and yes, it was my first distro too). Try something more user-friendly: try Fedora, Suse and Ubuntu in any order then stick with one for a couple of months. Don't be afraid to ask questions and don't forget to search the fine web for answers before you ask ;) If you don't find answers, it will help you ask a better question. Cheers, florin -- If we wish to count lines of code, we should not regard them as lines produced but as lines spent. -- Edsger Dijkstra -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060815/b67d8131/attachment.pgp From jima at beer.tclug.org Tue Aug 15 21:33:06 2006 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 21:33:06 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Problem writing to DVD In-Reply-To: <1155676622.23575.99.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net> References: <1155644903.23575.10.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net> <44E205F7.5070709@beitsahour.net> <1155676622.23575.99.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Aug 2006, Jon Schewe wrote: > On Tue, 2006-08-15 at 14:37 -0500, Jima wrote: >> K3b is a good KDE front-end for CD/DVD burning, whether or not you have >> an ISO already. >> ...and I'm not much of a KDE advocate. :) >> > That's where I initially got my error from. Hrm, your original message only mentioned cdrecord. I don't think K3b should be calling cdrecord for DVDs; I think it'd call growisofs. Jima From austad at signal15.com Wed Aug 16 01:17:05 2006 From: austad at signal15.com (Jay Austad) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 01:17:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] SELinux rocks Message-ID: Aug 13 20:11:41 plato kernel: audit(1155517901.898:9): avc: denied { execute } for pid=19354 comm="httpd" name="bash" dev=sda2 ino=5210181 scontext=root:system_r:httpd_t:s0 tcontext=system_u:object_r:shell_exec_t:s0 tclass=file If you're not running it, you should. From jpschewe at mtu.net Wed Aug 16 05:37:00 2006 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 05:37:00 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Problem writing to DVD In-Reply-To: References: <1155644903.23575.10.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net> <44E205F7.5070709@beitsahour.net> <1155676622.23575.99.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net> Message-ID: <1155724620.28197.0.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net> On Tue, 2006-08-15 at 21:33 -0500, Jima wrote: > On Tue, 15 Aug 2006, Jon Schewe wrote: > > On Tue, 2006-08-15 at 14:37 -0500, Jima wrote: > >> K3b is a good KDE front-end for CD/DVD burning, whether or not you have > >> an ISO already. > >> ...and I'm not much of a KDE advocate. :) > >> > > That's where I initially got my error from. > > Hrm, your original message only mentioned cdrecord. I don't think K3b > should be calling cdrecord for DVDs; I think it'd call growisofs. I tried both. I first got the error from k3b, then tried cdrecord directly and now have tried growisofs. None of them seem to work. Is this a media problem or just a matter of finding the right options? ________________________________________________________________________ Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe If you see a signature.asc file attached to the message this is my digital signature. See http://www.gnupg.org for more information. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060816/3e1b5612/attachment.pgp From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Aug 16 09:18:33 2006 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 09:18:33 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] SELinux rocks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Aug 2006, Jay Austad wrote: > Aug 13 20:11:41 plato kernel: audit(1155517901.898:9): avc: denied > { execute } for pid=19354 comm="httpd" name="bash" dev=sda2 > ino=5210181 scontext=root:system_r:httpd_t:s0 > tcontext=system_u:object_r:shell_exec_t:s0 tclass=file > > If you're not running it, you should. That's interesting, Jay. Can you (or anyone) explain the code above? Is that a line from a log file? Apparently the system did not allow execution of something, but was that something that Linux would have allowed and it would have had devastating effects? Mike From rclark at lakesplus.com Wed Aug 16 09:21:12 2006 From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 09:21:12 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] FC5 - Hardware Issue / Flakey Boot Message-ID: <1155738072.7994.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> (thanks in advance for any comments, etc.) I have been having a number of scary boot situations with my primary work system. The system has booted at times and acted like it could not find the drives. I then shut it down for a while and then ... it finds the drives and boots without a problem. Overheating? I do not think so as I have spaced the drives a fair distance a part to prevent an over heating issue. Plenty or air flow in the system as well. There are also instances when the system just crashes for no apparent reason - this is not good. (see error messages below system description) Any particular reason why the system may not find the drives it needs to boot? Or ... has problems in knowing what to do when it boots? ++++ system description +++++ Software: Fedora Core 5 (FC5) Hardware: Dual Xeon Asus MB, 3.2 GHz, 533 MHz FSB 4 GB RAM 4 250 GB SATA Drives Hard drive configuration (to the best of my knowledge) The system is set up with software Raid level 1. Logical volume groups to basically give one large drive Raid is set up for /boot, /swap, and / All of this was set up during installation, not after the fact. I have not tried booting it from the second boot partition, say for example to test the system as if it crashed on the boot drive. I think i still need to copy some files across. I bought new hardware in all situations and a good power supply. I did not skimp as this is my main work computer. ++++ end of system description ++++ Error messages previously found. +++ previous error messages ++++++ Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... localhost kernel: Oops: 0002 [#1] Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... localhost kernel: SMP Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... localhost kernel: CPU: 3 Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... localhost kernel: EIP is at ata_pio_task+0x592/0x677 [libata] Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... localhost kernel: eax: 04eebb23 ebx: 00000004 ecx: f7d58f08 edx: f7c78310 Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... localhost kernel: esi: 00000002 edi: 00000000 ebp: 00000282 esp: f7d58f18 Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... localhost kernel: ds: 007b es: 007b ss: 0068 Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... localhost kernel: Process ata/3 (pid: 382, threadinfo=f7d58000 task=f7ca3630) Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... localhost kernel: Stack: <0>f7ca3758 c3500590 f7c78310 c3337160 faf71700 003e360e 00000000 00000003 Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... localhost kernel: 00000282 f7de39c0 f7c788cc f7c788d0 f7de39c0 00000282 c01314b0 f8831334 Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... localhost kernel: f7c78310 f7de39d8 f7de39c0 f7de39e0 c0131c9d c0131d83 00000000 00000000 Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... localhost kernel: Call Trace: Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... localhost kernel: [] run_workqueue+0x7f/0xba [] ata_pio_task+0x0/0x677 [libata] Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... localhost kernel: [] worker_thread+0x0/0x117 [] worker_thread+0xe6/0x117 Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... localhost kernel: [] default_wake_function+0x0/0xc [] kthread+0x9d/0xc9 Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... localhost kernel: [] kthread+0x0/0xc9 [] kernel_thread_helper+0x5/0xb Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... localhost kernel: Code: 0f 0b 5f 0b 9f 56 83 f8 31 f6 31 db 8b 44 24 08 8b 50 04 ff 52 1c 84 c0 79 4d a1 00 dc 3b c0 8b 54 24 08 39 82 f0 05 00 00 79 16 <83> 8f 94 00 00 00 04 c7 82 ec 05 00 00 03 00 00 00 e9 63 fa ff From nate at ima.umn.edu Wed Aug 16 10:06:11 2006 From: nate at ima.umn.edu (Nate Sanders) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 10:06:11 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] SELinux rocks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44E33463.8030802@ima.umn.edu> SELinux is an underlying security architecture which introduces a second set of permissions underneath Linux. It was created by the NSA and comes turned on in most RH based distros (FC, CentOS) and is available for others. It takes a good deal of configuration and understanding, but it can save you from many many nasty hacks and vulnerabilities. Mike Miller wrote: >On Wed, 16 Aug 2006, Jay Austad wrote: > > > >>Aug 13 20:11:41 plato kernel: audit(1155517901.898:9): avc: denied >>{ execute } for pid=19354 comm="httpd" name="bash" dev=sda2 >>ino=5210181 scontext=root:system_r:httpd_t:s0 >>tcontext=system_u:object_r:shell_exec_t:s0 tclass=file >> >>If you're not running it, you should. >> >> > >That's interesting, Jay. Can you (or anyone) explain the code above? Is >that a line from a log file? Apparently the system did not allow >execution of something, but was that something that Linux would have >allowed and it would have had devastating effects? > >Mike > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list at mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- ============================================== Nate Sanders nate at ima.umn.edu Associate Systems Manager (612) 624 - 4353 http://www.ima.umn.edu/ ============================================== Institute for Mathematics and its Applications University of Minnesota 400 Lind Hall, 207 Church St. SE Minneapolis, MN 55455-0463 ============================================== From srcfoo at gmail.com Wed Aug 16 10:10:12 2006 From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 10:10:12 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] FC5 - Hardware Issue / Flakey Boot In-Reply-To: <1155738072.7994.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1155738072.7994.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <579c6fd30608160810j13bd5b90j3515cc1f0385efc@mail.gmail.com> Hi Randy, What kind of power supply do you have? I have had a lot of really strange and seemingly random problems which were finally solved by replacing the power supply. If it is the power supply, replace it ASAP before anything else in the system fails from crappy power. But looking at your kernel oops, I'm guessing you have a bad disk or bad controller. -Eric On 8/16/06, Randy Clarksean wrote: > (thanks in advance for any comments, etc.) > > I have been having a number of scary boot situations with my primary > work system. > > The system has booted at times and acted like it could not find the > drives. I then shut it down for a while and then ... it finds the > drives and boots without a problem. Overheating? I do not think so as > I have spaced the drives a fair distance a part to prevent an over > heating issue. Plenty or air flow in the system as well. > > There are also instances when the system just crashes for no apparent > reason - this is not good. (see error messages below system > description) > > Any particular reason why the system may not find the drives it needs to > boot? Or ... has problems in knowing what to do when it boots? > > ++++ system description +++++ > > Software: Fedora Core 5 (FC5) > > Hardware: Dual Xeon Asus MB, 3.2 GHz, 533 MHz FSB > 4 GB RAM > 4 250 GB SATA Drives > > Hard drive configuration (to the best of my knowledge) > > The system is set up with software Raid level 1. > Logical volume groups to basically give one large drive > Raid is set up for /boot, /swap, and / > All of this was set up during installation, not after the fact. I have > not tried booting it from the second boot partition, say for example to > test the system as if it crashed on the boot drive. I think i still > need to copy some files across. > > I bought new hardware in all situations and a good power supply. I did > not skimp as this is my main work computer. > > ++++ end of system description ++++ > > Error messages previously found. > > +++ previous error messages ++++++ > > Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... > localhost kernel: Oops: 0002 [#1] > > Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... > localhost kernel: SMP > > Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... > localhost kernel: CPU: 3 > > Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... > localhost kernel: EIP is at ata_pio_task+0x592/0x677 [libata] > > Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... > localhost kernel: eax: 04eebb23 ebx: 00000004 ecx: f7d58f08 edx: > f7c78310 > > Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... > localhost kernel: esi: 00000002 edi: 00000000 ebp: 00000282 esp: > f7d58f18 > > Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... > localhost kernel: ds: 007b es: 007b ss: 0068 > > Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... > localhost kernel: Process ata/3 (pid: 382, threadinfo=f7d58000 > task=f7ca3630) > > Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... > localhost kernel: Stack: <0>f7ca3758 c3500590 f7c78310 c3337160 faf71700 > 003e360e 00000000 00000003 > > Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... > localhost kernel: 00000282 f7de39c0 f7c788cc f7c788d0 f7de39c0 > 00000282 c01314b0 f8831334 > > Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... > localhost kernel: f7c78310 f7de39d8 f7de39c0 f7de39e0 c0131c9d > c0131d83 00000000 00000000 > > Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... > localhost kernel: Call Trace: > > Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... > localhost kernel: [] run_workqueue+0x7f/0xba [] > ata_pio_task+0x0/0x677 [libata] > > Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... > localhost kernel: [] worker_thread+0x0/0x117 [] > worker_thread+0xe6/0x117 > > Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... > localhost kernel: [] default_wake_function+0x0/0xc > [] kthread+0x9d/0xc9 > > Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... > localhost kernel: [] kthread+0x0/0xc9 [] > kernel_thread_helper+0x5/0xb > > Message from syslogd at localhost at Tue Jul 18 12:20:33 2006 ... > localhost kernel: Code: 0f 0b 5f 0b 9f 56 83 f8 31 f6 31 db 8b 44 24 08 > 8b 50 04 ff 52 1c 84 c0 79 4d a1 00 dc 3b c0 8b 54 24 08 39 82 f0 05 00 > 00 79 16 <83> 8f 94 00 00 00 04 c7 82 ec 05 00 00 03 00 00 00 e9 63 fa > ff > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From tipsy_in_chicago at yahoo.com Wed Aug 16 10:16:15 2006 From: tipsy_in_chicago at yahoo.com (Tipsy-in_Chicago Tipsy) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 08:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] SELinux rocks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060816151615.92606.qmail@web56910.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I need some help here. I am not sure if SUSE rocks.........what i mean to say is that, I installed SUSE 10.0 on my Dell XPS 400 machine..and i have no clue how to enable internet on it. I am using comcast cable. I am a linux newbie...detailed info is much appreciated. Thanks KT Jay Austad wrote: Aug 13 20:11:41 plato kernel: audit(1155517901.898:9): avc: denied { execute } for pid354 comm="httpd" name="bash" dev=sda2 inoR10181 scontext=root:system_r:httpd_t:s0 tcontext=system_u:object_r:shell_exec_t:s0 tclass=file If you're not running it, you should. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060816/0ffc65db/attachment.htm From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Wed Aug 16 10:15:03 2006 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 10:15:03 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Problem writing to DVD In-Reply-To: <1155724620.28197.0.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net> References: <1155644903.23575.10.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net> <44E205F7.5070709@beitsahour.net> <1155676622.23575.99.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net> <1155724620.28197.0.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net> Message-ID: <20060816101503.A22281@pchelka.space.umn.edu> On Wed, Aug 16, 2006 at 05:37:00AM -0500, Jon Schewe wrote: > On Tue, 2006-08-15 at 21:33 -0500, Jima wrote: > > On Tue, 15 Aug 2006, Jon Schewe wrote: > > > On Tue, 2006-08-15 at 14:37 -0500, Jima wrote: > > >> K3b is a good KDE front-end for CD/DVD burning, whether or not you have > > >> an ISO already. > > >> ...and I'm not much of a KDE advocate. :) > > >> > > > That's where I initially got my error from. > > > > Hrm, your original message only mentioned cdrecord. I don't think K3b > > should be calling cdrecord for DVDs; I think it'd call growisofs. > > I tried both. I first got the error from k3b, then tried cdrecord > directly and now have tried growisofs. None of them seem to work. Is > this a media problem or just a matter of finding the right options? As Kelly said elsewhere in this thread, try other media. When I have had OPC error messages, other media worked for me. You may want to look at the docs for your DVD drive - they may have recommended media. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons | From auditodd at comcast.net Wed Aug 16 10:26:32 2006 From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:26:32 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] SELinux rocks Message-ID: <081620061526.10326.44E33928000535D80000285622070215530B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net> -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Tipsy-in_Chicago Tipsy > I need some help here. I am not sure if SUSE rocks.........what i mean to say is > that, I installed SUSE 10.0 on my Dell XPS 400 machine..and i have no clue how > to enable internet on it. I am using comcast cable. > > I am a linux newbie...detailed info is much appreciated. > > Thanks > KT If you are not behind a firewall (directly connected to the cable modem), it may take a power cycle of the cable modem for it to release the MAC address of the computer you previously had attached to the cable modem. You may also need to restart your NIC within SUSE for it to pick up a DHCP address from Comcast (you did specify DHCP when you installed didn't you?). Personally, I never attach a computer directly to the Internet. I always use a firewall. Less headaches when moving computers around on a Comcast connection because all Comcast ever sees is the firewall. Plus I can (and do) run multiple computers on a single connection. There are multiple Linux distros dedicated to being a firewall. Smoothwall (my personal favorite), IPCop, Astaro (spelling?), ClarkConnect, and a few more that I can't think of off the top of my head. Todd Young From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Aug 16 10:48:46 2006 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 10:48:46 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] SUSE newbie questions In-Reply-To: <20060816151615.92606.qmail@web56910.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <20060816151615.92606.qmail@web56910.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Aug 2006, Tipsy-in_Chicago Tipsy wrote: > I need some help here. I am not sure if SUSE rocks.........what i mean > to say is that, I installed SUSE 10.0 on my Dell XPS 400 machine..and i > have no clue how to enable internet on it. I am using comcast cable. > > I am a linux newbie...detailed info is much appreciated. From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Wed Aug 16 12:12:04 2006 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 12:12:04 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] SUSE newbie questions In-Reply-To: References: <20060816151615.92606.qmail@web56910.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060816121204.b51e5fbd.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 10:48:46 -0500 (CDT) Mike Miller wrote: > On Wed, 16 Aug 2006, Tipsy-in_Chicago Tipsy wrote: > > > I need some help here. I am not sure if SUSE rocks.........what > > i mean to say is that, I installed SUSE 10.0 on my Dell XPS 400 > > machine..and i have no clue how to enable internet on it. I am > > using comcast cable. > > > > I am a linux newbie...detailed info is much appreciated. Welcome - hope we can help. There are a number of things that could be going wrong so first thing to do is narrow down the problem. Couple questions: 1.) Are you connecting your computer directly to the cable modem or to another router in between? 2.) Do you have another PC/Laptop running windows that connects ok to the internet through your cable modem? 3.) Log in as root and send the results of the following commands: ifconfig -a lspci -vv (just find the block(s) that have "Ethernet controller" and send those) lsmod The first will list your network interfaces, the second your PCI devices, the third your loaded kernel modules. Thanks, Jsoh From tclug at beitsahour.net Wed Aug 16 12:48:01 2006 From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 12:48:01 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor In-Reply-To: <15790.69.76.4.32.1155683813.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <101e49ea0608141108v7ff2ebd3qb80b86000fdaf7b7@mail.gmail.com> <101e49ea0608150624p25a701f6l63d9bdb231c243d2@mail.gmail.com> <15790.69.76.4.32.1155683813.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> Message-ID: <44E35A51.2060009@beitsahour.net> markring40 at ippimail.com wrote: > Then a sys admin for a local, South Dakota ISP gave me (years ago) his > Slackware 7.0 CD's. That is the distro that I learned the most from. It > has good documentation and it's own package utility. > http://www.slackware.com/ > > By the way, the Slackware Kernel was written by a one-time student of > Moorhead State (Patrick Volkerding), where my son starts on Monday! I think it is time for another quick primer and history: kernel: this is the core of the operating system, the most basic program that runs the hardware. This is what drivers plug into to make your whizbang hardware able to whizbang. Under Debian, Gentoo, Slackware and all other Linux distributions this kernel is called Linux. under windows it is called NTKRNL.EXE, under dos it is msdos.sys(sorta). Distribution: In the olden days Linux was a complete distribution onto itself, Linus Torvalds released it to replace minix on your computer so it included gcc, getty, bash and a kernel(no name for the kernel at the time); nowadays Linux is just the kernel and other people such as Pat Volkerding put this kernel along with many other software packages onto media to make a distributibution. Distributions usually include the software that talks to the hardware via the drivers to make the whizbang hardware actually do its whizbanging. Many of the basic application in a distribution come from a project by Richard Stallman(rms) called GNU. His idea was to make a OS to replace Unix(or minix as the case may be) the only problem was that they never got around to actually writing a kernel, last i heard they are still working on it 20 years later. If you are not confused yet, rms wants you to call every linux distribution GNU/Linux because the majority of code in a distribution was writted for GNU. I know i an opening a can of worms here but these are things that people need to know about so that they do not go around saying stuff like: the Slackware Kernel was written by Patrick Volkerding. Because that just makes you look like an idiot. I have tried to be objective in my above descriptions, but i also need to be subjective to keep my sanity. Stop reading if you do not care about my opinions. Personally i think rms needs to smoke less, if he wanted recognition he should have written it into his license; oh wait he does get get plenty enough recognition as it is because of his license(who does not know the GNU GPL?). I think he is just miffed that some 20year old Finnish college student was able to release his GNU system before he was and got all his glory, the this student did not even make it to MIT, to add insult to injury this system now is not known as GNU as it was supposed to, but linux after this upstart kid. From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Aug 16 13:05:19 2006 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 13:05:19 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor In-Reply-To: <44E35A51.2060009@beitsahour.net> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <101e49ea0608141108v7ff2ebd3qb80b86000fdaf7b7@mail.gmail.com> <101e49ea0608150624p25a701f6l63d9bdb231c243d2@mail.gmail.com> <15790.69.76.4.32.1155683813.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <44E35A51.2060009@beitsahour.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Aug 2006, Munir Nassar wrote: > I think he is just miffed that some 20 year old Finnish college student > was able to release his GNU system before he was and got all his glory, > the this student did not even make it to MIT, to add insult to injury > this system now is not known as GNU as it was supposed to, but linux > after this upstart kid. I think the real reason is that RMS wants attention for GNU, and for "Free Software" more than for himself. But, who wouldn't feel it if (A) you had worked for a decade on a project and shared it with the world and (B) everyone seems to believe it was not you who had done that work and most of the public acknowledgement went to that other person? Paraphrasing what you wrote above and changing the names: I think Joe is just miffed that Bob was able to release Joe's code before Joe released it himself and because Bob then got all the glory. Right. That Joe really needs to take a chill pill. That said, I don't think "RMS needs to smoke less." Why would you say such a thing? I think he deserves nothing but respect for his accomplishments even if he has long hair and sloppy clothes. If you want to know why we have an "Open Source Movement" - a name that RMS doesn't like -- you need look no farther than Richard M. Stallman for the answer. If it hadn't been for him, I have no idea what would have happened but it wouldn't have been nearly as good as it is today. If not for Linus Torvalds? I don't know. It's anyone's guess. There is no doubt that something great would have happened without Torvalds, maybe greater, maybe not as great. Mike From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Aug 16 13:43:57 2006 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 13:43:57 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor Message-ID: I think it is a mistake to discount criticism of Mr. Stallman as only a consequence of his hair and clothing. He has many opinions on various subjects, and he is not afraid to share them. If a person were to agree with most or even many of those, I can see why a person might have nothing but respect for Mr. Stallman. I do not, and though I do respect Mr. Stallman for his many signigicant accomplishments, I think he (and his words) deserve more than respect. He (and they) deserve serious consideration, and the employment of a persons own judgement concerning their relative worth. In my experience he is as likely to put forth a worth suggestion as an unworthy one, but that is my opinion. >>> Mike Miller 08/16/06 1:05 PM >>> I think he deserves nothing but respect for his accomplishments even if he has long hair and sloppy clothes. From aristophrenic at warpmail.net Wed Aug 16 14:12:14 2006 From: aristophrenic at warpmail.net (Isaac Atilano) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 14:12:14 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic In-Reply-To: References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <101e49ea0608141108v7ff2ebd3qb80b86000fdaf7b7@mail.gmail.com> <101e49ea0608150624p25a701f6l63d9bdb231c243d2@mail.gmail.com> <15790.69.76.4.32.1155683813.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <44E35A51.2060009@beitsahour.net> Message-ID: <1155755534.7174.268536649@webmail.messagingengine.com> This discussion gave me an idea that I hope will be interesting to others on this list. I think a person's viewpoint on this discussion is primarily influenced by their reasons for using Linux. In order to get a feel for where the TCLUG members stand I'd like to move for a poll. The poll would ask the question "What is your primary reason for using Linux?" The major philosophical, political and technical reasons would then be the responses. Any backers? ----- Original message ----- From: "Mike Miller" To: "Munir Nassar" Cc: "TCLUG" Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 13:05:19 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor On Wed, 16 Aug 2006, Munir Nassar wrote: > I think he is just miffed that some 20 year old Finnish college student > was able to release his GNU system before he was and got all his glory, > the this student did not even make it to MIT, to add insult to injury > this system now is not known as GNU as it was supposed to, but linux > after this upstart kid. I think the real reason is that RMS wants attention for GNU, and for "Free Software" more than for himself. But, who wouldn't feel it if (A) you had worked for a decade on a project and shared it with the world and (B) everyone seems to believe it was not you who had done that work and most of the public acknowledgement went to that other person? Paraphrasing what you wrote above and changing the names: I think Joe is just miffed that Bob was able to release Joe's code before Joe released it himself and because Bob then got all the glory. Right. That Joe really needs to take a chill pill. That said, I don't think "RMS needs to smoke less." Why would you say such a thing? I think he deserves nothing but respect for his accomplishments even if he has long hair and sloppy clothes. If you want to know why we have an "Open Source Movement" - a name that RMS doesn't like -- you need look no farther than Richard M. Stallman for the answer. If it hadn't been for him, I have no idea what would have happened but it wouldn't have been nearly as good as it is today. If not for Linus Torvalds? I don't know. It's anyone's guess. There is no doubt that something great would have happened without Torvalds, maybe greater, maybe not as great. Mike _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Aug 16 14:11:57 2006 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 14:11:57 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Aug 2006, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > I think it is a mistake to discount criticism of Mr. Stallman as only a > consequence of his hair and clothing. The criticism of Stallman had almost nothing to say about his positions on issues. If there had been more substance to it, I would have responded to that substance. > He has many opinions on various subjects, and he is not afraid to share > them. If a person were to agree with most or even many of those, I can > see why a person might have nothing but respect for Mr. Stallman. I do > not, and though I do respect Mr. Stallman for his many signigicant > accomplishments, I think he (and his words) deserve more than respect. > He (and they) deserve serious consideration, and the employment of a > persons own judgement concerning their relative worth. In my experience > he is as likely to put forth a worth suggestion as an unworthy one, but > that is my opinion. OK. Whatever. That's a whole paragraph with approximately zero information content. I think I get it now. You think that the phrase "he deserves nothing but respect" means "he should not be criticized. That wasn't what I meant. Mike >>>> Mike Miller 08/16/06 1:05 PM >>> > I think he deserves nothing but respect for his > accomplishments even if he has long hair and > sloppy clothes. From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Aug 16 14:38:23 2006 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 14:38:23 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor Message-ID: >>> Mike Miller 08/16/06 2:11 PM >>> >OK. Whatever. That's a whole paragraph with approximately zero >information content. So sorry to disappoint you. Condensed: don't be such a slobbering RMS fanboy, he's wrong as much as he is right. >I think I get it now. You think that the phrase "he deserves nothing but >respect" means "he should not be criticized. That wasn't what I meant. Good. I guess I should not have been so rude earlier in this email. I sincerely apologize. Troy From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Aug 16 14:55:16 2006 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 14:55:16 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Aug 2006, Troy.A Johnson wrote: >>>> Mike Miller 08/16/06 2:11 PM >>> >> OK. Whatever. That's a whole paragraph with approximately zero >> information content. > > So sorry to disappoint you. Condensed: don't be such a slobbering RMS > fanboy, he's wrong as much as he is right. It's hard for me to see how you got "slobbering RMS fanboy" from what I wrote, but you obviously are a hothead and prone to exaggeration. >> I think I get it now. You think that the phrase "he deserves nothing >> but respect" means "he should not be criticized. That wasn't what I >> meant. > > Good. I guess I should not have been so rude earlier in this email. I > sincerely apologize. OK. I am also finding it difficult to go back and change what I just wrote earlier in this email. If you would like to name some things that RMS has done that you find objectionable, please feel free to do that. I will reply politely. Maybe I'll even agree with you. Maybe I'll learn something from you. Mike From rwh at visi.com Wed Aug 16 15:17:42 2006 From: rwh at visi.com (rwh) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:17:42 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor In-Reply-To: <44E35A51.2060009@beitsahour.net> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <101e49ea0608141108v7ff2ebd3qb80b86000fdaf7b7@mail.gmail.com> <101e49ea0608150624p25a701f6l63d9bdb231c243d2@mail.gmail.com> <15790.69.76.4.32.1155683813.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <44E35A51.2060009@beitsahour.net> Message-ID: <44E37D66.4060502@visi.com> I hate it when I realize how long I've been doing this ... I can remember reading RMS's original DDJ article in 1984 while stuck in traffic headed to the airport and thinking the guys was off his rocker. It wasn't the whole free software thing because that was well underway with the public domain stuff that offered at least reduced versions of unix utilities, editors, small-C, etc. that ran under CP/M and PC-DOS. It was the idea that the intellectual property underlying the software would eventually be freely available and we'd have to make a living off of providing services that had everyone in the car in stitches. Thirty years later it pretty clear that he was right. BTW, in 1990 he was awarded a $240,000 MacArthur Fellowship for that work and in 2001 he was awarded the Takeda prize, and another $250,000, in recognition of his efforts. A MacArthur Fellow doesn't need GNU slapped on Linux for personal aggrandizement, although he might want to do it to recognize the effort of all of the people who devoted their free time to producing things like gcc that made Linux possible. Then in the early '90's he moved on to the anti-competitive effects of software patents. Again a lot of people figured him for being a wing nut, and again I think his concerns turned out to be well grounded. Linux is an impressive engineering/management accomplishment, but please don't confuse it with an intellectual movement. --rick Munir Nassar wrote: > markring40 at ippimail.com wrote: >> Then a sys admin for a local, South Dakota ISP gave me (years ago) his >> Slackware 7.0 CD's. That is the distro that I learned the most from. It >> has good documentation and it's own package utility. >> http://www.slackware.com/ >> >> By the way, the Slackware Kernel was written by a one-time student of >> Moorhead State (Patrick Volkerding), where my son starts on Monday! > > I think it is time for another quick primer and history: > > kernel: this is the core of the operating system, the most basic program > that runs the hardware. This is what drivers plug into to make your > whizbang hardware able to whizbang. Under Debian, Gentoo, Slackware and > all other Linux distributions this kernel is called Linux. under windows > it is called NTKRNL.EXE, under dos it is msdos.sys(sorta). > > Distribution: In the olden days Linux was a complete distribution onto > itself, Linus Torvalds released it to replace minix on your computer so > it included gcc, getty, bash and a kernel(no name for the kernel at the > time); nowadays Linux is just the kernel and other people such as Pat > Volkerding put this kernel along with many other software packages onto > media to make a distributibution. Distributions usually include the > software that talks to the hardware via the drivers to make the whizbang > hardware actually do its whizbanging. Many of the basic application in a > distribution come from a project by Richard Stallman(rms) called GNU. > His idea was to make a OS to replace Unix(or minix as the case may be) > the only problem was that they never got around to actually writing a > kernel, last i heard they are still working on it 20 years later. > > If you are not confused yet, rms wants you to call every linux > distribution GNU/Linux because the majority of code in a distribution > was writted for GNU. > > I know i an opening a can of worms here but these are things that people > need to know about so that they do not go around saying stuff like: the > Slackware Kernel was written by Patrick Volkerding. Because that just > makes you look like an idiot. > > I have tried to be objective in my above descriptions, but i also need > to be subjective to keep my sanity. Stop reading if you do not care > about my opinions. Personally i think rms needs to smoke less, if he > wanted recognition he should have written it into his license; oh wait > he does get get plenty enough recognition as it is because of his > license(who does not know the GNU GPL?). I think he is just miffed that > some 20year old Finnish college student was able to release his GNU > system before he was and got all his glory, the this student did not > even make it to MIT, to add insult to injury this system now is not > known as GNU as it was supposed to, but linux after this upstart kid. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Aug 16 15:24:37 2006 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:24:37 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor Message-ID: >>> Mike Miller 08/16/06 2:55 PM >>> >It's hard for me to see how you got "slobbering RMS fanboy" from what I >wrote, but you obviously are a hothead and prone to exaggeration. I was trying to achieve the level of rudeness ("OK. Whatever. That's a whole paragraph with approximately zero information content.") I perceived in your response to me, and thought a little hotheaded exaggeration would do the trick. Was it too much? If so, then I apologize once again. >>> I think I get it now. You think that the phrase "he deserves nothing >>> but respect" means "he should not be criticized. That wasn't what I >>> meant. >> Good. I guess I should not have been so rude earlier in this email. I >> sincerely apologize. >OK. I am also finding it difficult to go back and change what I just >wrote earlier in this email. >If you would like to name some things that RMS has done that you find >objectionable, please feel free to do that. Oh, thank you. >I will reply politely. >Maybe I'll even agree with you. Maybe I'll learn something from you. Not today. Good day to you sir, Troy From aristophrenic at warpmail.net Wed Aug 16 15:47:55 2006 From: aristophrenic at warpmail.net (Isaac Atilano) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:47:55 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1155761275.18036.268545657@webmail.messagingengine.com> It looks to me like this should be a personal conversation. It has "zero information content" that's useful to anybody but the two parties involved. ----- Original message ----- From: "Troy.A Johnson" To: "Mike Miller" Cc: "TCLUG" Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:24:37 -0500 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor >>> Mike Miller 08/16/06 2:55 PM >>> >It's hard for me to see how you got "slobbering RMS fanboy" from what I >wrote, but you obviously are a hothead and prone to exaggeration. I was trying to achieve the level of rudeness ("OK. Whatever. That's a whole paragraph with approximately zero information content.") I perceived in your response to me, and thought a little hotheaded exaggeration would do the trick. Was it too much? If so, then I apologize once again. >>> I think I get it now. You think that the phrase "he deserves nothing >>> but respect" means "he should not be criticized. That wasn't what I >>> meant. >> Good. I guess I should not have been so rude earlier in this email. I >> sincerely apologize. >OK. I am also finding it difficult to go back and change what I just >wrote earlier in this email. >If you would like to name some things that RMS has done that you find >objectionable, please feel free to do that. Oh, thank you. >I will reply politely. >Maybe I'll even agree with you. Maybe I'll learn something from you. Not today. Good day to you sir, Troy _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Wed Aug 16 16:29:21 2006 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 16:29:21 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor In-Reply-To: <1155761275.18036.268545657@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1155761275.18036.268545657@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Aug 2006, Isaac Atilano wrote: > It looks to me like this should be a personal conversation. > It has "zero information content" that's useful to anybody but the two > parties involved. Honestly, I doubt it's particularly useful to them, either. wasting my bits and yours, Jima From markring40 at ippimail.com Wed Aug 16 18:00:01 2006 From: markring40 at ippimail.com (markring40 at ippimail.com) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 00:00:01 +0100 (BST) Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor In-Reply-To: <44E37D66.4060502@visi.com> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <101e49ea0608141108v7ff2ebd3qb80b86000fdaf7b7@mail.gmail.com> <101e49ea0608150624p25a701f6l63d9bdb231c243d2@mail.gmail.com> <15790.69.76.4.32.1155683813.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <44E35A51.2060009@beitsahour.net> <44E37D66.4060502@visi.com> Message-ID: <26330.69.76.4.32.1155769201.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> Munir, Thank you for the correction. I meant Slacware *Distro* but I typed *kernel* instead. Operator error. I do apprecitate you pointing out my mistake. Being precise is important when we are all trying to learn from each other. Mark > Munir Nassar wrote: >> markring40 at ippimail.com wrote: >>> Then a sys admin for a local, South Dakota ISP gave me (years ago) his >>> Slackware 7.0 CD's. That is the distro that I learned the most from. >>> It >>> has good documentation and it's own package utility. >>> http://www.slackware.com/ >>> >>> By the way, the Slackware Kernel was written by a one-time student of >>> Moorhead State (Patrick Volkerding), where my son starts on Monday! >> >> I think it is time for another quick primer and history: >> >> kernel: this is the core of the operating system, the most basic program >> that runs the hardware. This is what drivers plug into to make your >> whizbang hardware able to whizbang. Under Debian, Gentoo, Slackware and >> all other Linux distributions this kernel is called Linux. under windows >> it is called NTKRNL.EXE, under dos it is msdos.sys(sorta). >> >> Distribution: In the olden days Linux was a complete distribution onto >> itself, Linus Torvalds released it to replace minix on your computer so >> it included gcc, getty, bash and a kernel(no name for the kernel at the >> time); nowadays Linux is just the kernel and other people such as Pat >> Volkerding put this kernel along with many other software packages onto >> media to make a distributibution. Distributions usually include the >> software that talks to the hardware via the drivers to make the whizbang >> hardware actually do its whizbanging. Many of the basic application in a >> distribution come from a project by Richard Stallman(rms) called GNU. >> His idea was to make a OS to replace Unix(or minix as the case may be) >> the only problem was that they never got around to actually writing a >> kernel, last i heard they are still working on it 20 years later. >> >> If you are not confused yet, rms wants you to call every linux >> distribution GNU/Linux because the majority of code in a distribution >> was writted for GNU. >> >> I know i an opening a can of worms here but these are things that people >> need to know about so that they do not go around saying stuff like: the >> Slackware Kernel was written by Patrick Volkerding. Because that just >> makes you look like an idiot. >> >> I have tried to be objective in my above descriptions, but i also need >> to be subjective to keep my sanity. Stop reading if you do not care >> about my opinions. Personally i think rms needs to smoke less, if he >> wanted recognition he should have written it into his license; oh wait >> he does get get plenty enough recognition as it is because of his >> license(who does not know the GNU GPL?). I think he is just miffed that >> some 20year old Finnish college student was able to release his GNU >> system before he was and got all his glory, the this student did not >> even make it to MIT, to add insult to injury this system now is not >> known as GNU as it was supposed to, but linux after this upstart kid. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Get a free email address at http://www.ippimail.com and support your favorite charity without it costing you a penny. Email for the good guys! From bhartm at visi.com Wed Aug 16 21:06:20 2006 From: bhartm at visi.com (Bob Hartmann) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 21:06:20 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic In-Reply-To: <1155755534.7174.268536649@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <101e49ea0608141108v7ff2ebd3qb80b86000fdaf7b7@mail.gmail.com> <101e49ea0608150624p25a701f6l63d9bdb231c243d2@mail.gmail.com> <15790.69.76.4.32.1155683813.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <44E35A51.2060009@beitsahour.net> <1155755534.7174.268536649@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <44E3CF1C.6070903@visi.com> I'll second the motion, and offer help if any is needed. I would be very interested in learning how others here approach that not-so-simple question. Isaac Atilano wrote: >This discussion gave me an idea that I hope will be interesting to >others on this list. I think a person's viewpoint on this discussion is >primarily influenced by their reasons for using Linux. In order to get a >feel for where the TCLUG members stand I'd like to move for a poll. The >poll would ask the question "What is your primary reason for using >Linux?" The major philosophical, political and technical reasons would >then be the responses. >Any backers? > > > From jack at jacku.com Wed Aug 16 23:34:15 2006 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 23:34:15 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor In-Reply-To: <44E37D66.4060502@visi.com> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <44E35A51.2060009@beitsahour.net> <44E37D66.4060502@visi.com> Message-ID: <200608162334.15847.jack@jacku.com> [Note: This reply could have gone anywhere in this thread, I just picked here because it was convenient.] At the risk of prolonging a discussion that probably shouldn't be prolonged I'll recommend "Free as in Freedom" for anyone who hasn't read it. I was in the camp that found RMS a little more than a distraction. Then I read FaiF and developed a new respect for him. It's available online at: http://www.faifzilla.org/ Follow the Faifzilla 1.0 link for the text of the book. Jack On Wednesday 16 August 2006 3:17 pm, rwh wrote: > I hate it when I realize how long I've been doing this ... > > I can remember reading RMS's original DDJ article in 1984 while stuck in > traffic headed to the airport and thinking the guys was off his rocker. > It wasn't the whole free software thing because that was well underway > with the public domain stuff that offered at least reduced versions of > unix utilities, editors, small-C, etc. that ran under CP/M and PC-DOS. > It was the idea that the intellectual property underlying the software > would eventually be freely available and we'd have to make a living off > of providing services that had everyone in the car in stitches. > > Thirty years later it pretty clear that he was right. BTW, in 1990 he > was awarded a $240,000 MacArthur Fellowship for that work and in 2001 he > was awarded the Takeda prize, and another $250,000, in recognition of > his efforts. A MacArthur Fellow doesn't need GNU slapped on Linux for > personal aggrandizement, although he might want to do it to recognize > the effort of all of the people who devoted their free time to producing > things like gcc that made Linux possible. > > Then in the early '90's he moved on to the anti-competitive effects of > software patents. Again a lot of people figured him for being a wing > nut, and again I think his concerns turned out to be well grounded. > > Linux is an impressive engineering/management accomplishment, but please > don't confuse it with an intellectual movement. > > --rick > > Munir Nassar wrote: > > markring40 at ippimail.com wrote: > >> Then a sys admin for a local, South Dakota ISP gave me (years ago) his > >> Slackware 7.0 CD's. That is the distro that I learned the most from. > >> It has good documentation and it's own package utility. > >> http://www.slackware.com/ > >> > >> By the way, the Slackware Kernel was written by a one-time student of > >> Moorhead State (Patrick Volkerding), where my son starts on Monday! > > > > I think it is time for another quick primer and history: > > > > kernel: this is the core of the operating system, the most basic program > > that runs the hardware. This is what drivers plug into to make your > > whizbang hardware able to whizbang. Under Debian, Gentoo, Slackware and > > all other Linux distributions this kernel is called Linux. under windows > > it is called NTKRNL.EXE, under dos it is msdos.sys(sorta). > > > > Distribution: In the olden days Linux was a complete distribution onto > > itself, Linus Torvalds released it to replace minix on your computer so > > it included gcc, getty, bash and a kernel(no name for the kernel at the > > time); nowadays Linux is just the kernel and other people such as Pat > > Volkerding put this kernel along with many other software packages onto > > media to make a distributibution. Distributions usually include the > > software that talks to the hardware via the drivers to make the whizbang > > hardware actually do its whizbanging. Many of the basic application in a > > distribution come from a project by Richard Stallman(rms) called GNU. > > His idea was to make a OS to replace Unix(or minix as the case may be) > > the only problem was that they never got around to actually writing a > > kernel, last i heard they are still working on it 20 years later. > > > > If you are not confused yet, rms wants you to call every linux > > distribution GNU/Linux because the majority of code in a distribution > > was writted for GNU. > > > > I know i an opening a can of worms here but these are things that people > > need to know about so that they do not go around saying stuff like: the > > Slackware Kernel was written by Patrick Volkerding. Because that just > > makes you look like an idiot. > > > > I have tried to be objective in my above descriptions, but i also need > > to be subjective to keep my sanity. Stop reading if you do not care > > about my opinions. Personally i think rms needs to smoke less, if he > > wanted recognition he should have written it into his license; oh wait > > he does get get plenty enough recognition as it is because of his > > license(who does not know the GNU GPL?). I think he is just miffed that > > some 20year old Finnish college student was able to release his GNU > > system before he was and got all his glory, the this student did not > > even make it to MIT, to add insult to injury this system now is not > > known as GNU as it was supposed to, but linux after this upstart kid. -- Jack Ungerleider jack at jacku.com http://www.jacku.com From jack at jacku.com Wed Aug 16 23:41:04 2006 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 23:41:04 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] SUSE newbie questions In-Reply-To: <20060816121204.b51e5fbd.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20060816151615.92606.qmail@web56910.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <20060816121204.b51e5fbd.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <200608162341.04829.jack@jacku.com> A couple of additional things to consider... 1. If you are connecting straight to the cable mode use ethernet not USB. 2. YaST is your friend. Go into the YaST Control Center and into Network Devices and make sure your network card is listed and setup correctly. 3. Are you using wireless? If so that's another can of worms. Get things working in a wired environment first. Jack - typing this on a system running SuSE 10.0 via a Comcast Cable Modem. (In other words don't despair it's doable.) On Wednesday 16 August 2006 12:12 pm, Josh Trutwin wrote: > On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 10:48:46 -0500 (CDT) > > Mike Miller wrote: > > On Wed, 16 Aug 2006, Tipsy-in_Chicago Tipsy wrote: > > > I need some help here. I am not sure if SUSE rocks.........what > > > i mean to say is that, I installed SUSE 10.0 on my Dell XPS 400 > > > machine..and i have no clue how to enable internet on it. I am > > > using comcast cable. > > > > > > I am a linux newbie...detailed info is much appreciated. > > Welcome - hope we can help. There are a number of things that > could be going wrong so first thing to do is narrow down the > problem. > > Couple questions: > > 1.) Are you connecting your computer directly to the cable modem or > to another router in between? > > 2.) Do you have another PC/Laptop running windows that connects ok > to the internet through your cable modem? > > 3.) Log in as root and send the results of the following commands: > > ifconfig -a > > lspci -vv (just find the block(s) that have "Ethernet controller" > and send those) > > lsmod > > The first will list your network interfaces, the second your PCI > devices, the third your loaded kernel modules. > > Thanks, > > Jsoh > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jack Ungerleider jack at jacku.com http://www.jacku.com From jus at krytosvirus.com Thu Aug 17 00:08:40 2006 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 00:08:40 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor In-Reply-To: <990024.1155579192502.JavaMail.root@Sniper26> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <990024.1155579192502.JavaMail.root@Sniper26> Message-ID: <200608170008.40453.jus@krytosvirus.com> I started out with Mandrake 7 or 8 onto a later version of Mandrake. I went from that to the current Gentoo installation on my computer I am using to type this. It is probably 5 years old and up to date as can be. I've upgraded bits and pieces of my computer over the years but always the same OS installation. You really learn the ins and outs when installing Gentoo because you have to type all of the commands instead of just point and click. Gentoo will really help you get your feet wet if you follow the online installation documentation. This kind of makes me think about how windows does it vs how linux used to be in that windows is mostly point and click and linux was always vi this or vi that and modprobe this and make that. Now linux is moving to point and click. This is probably a good thing in general but it does take away from the hands on experience you get from actually doing the things manually. For sys admining I'd say learning how to operate and navigate thru command line is important since it is usually very similar across most distros (and even into Unix and BSD) but the front end point and click apps are rarely even close to being similar. This is not a problem in windows because hey, there is only one "windows"... at least until MS releases the next version and completely changes half of the interface. N E WAYS... ramble ramble ........ Another important non distro/linux related skill set that I think is important in linux sys adminning is learning some shell scripting and/or a language like perl, python, ruby, etc. Have a file that needs some formatting or modifcations or something? Just whip up a quick script or even some one liners. In any case I think Gentoo's package management system is the coolest one out there (must install esearch - its in portage) which is based on the BSD's ports. I really like Gentoo because it is very clean and has a very nicely laid out directory structure (like BSDs in general). FYI I use OpenBSD for most of my own equipment but it does not play NWN, UT2004, etc very well so instead to play games and what not I use .vir. d$b .d$$$$$$b. .cd$$b. .d$$b. d$$$$$$$$$$$b .d$$b. .d$$b. $$$$( )$$$b d$$$()$$$. d$$$$$$$b Q$$$$$$$P$$$P.$$$$$$$b. .$$$$$$$b. Q$$$$$$$$$$B$$$$$$$$P" d$$$PQ$$$$b. $$$$. .$$$P' `$$$ .$$$P' `$$$ "$$$$$$$P Q$$$$$$$b d$$$P Q$$$$b $$$$b $$$$b..d$$$ $$$$b..d$$$ d$$$$$$P" "$$$$$$$$ Q$$$ Q$$$$ $$$$$ `Q$$$$$$$P `Q$$$$$$$P $$$$$$$P `""""" "" "" Q$$$P "Q$$$P" "Q$$$P" `Q$$P" """ On Monday 14 August 2006 13:05, Jordan Peacock wrote: > My initiation into linux was a little rocky: dialup over in the Middle > East, and I decided to brave the waters and try to install it. The 600+MB > .iso files were a bit daunting over dialup, and so I opted for the smallest > .iso: Gentoo's stage1 cd. > > For the uninformed, this is a minimalist cd that drops you into a command > line and assumes that you can set up networking, etc from there. > > A few months after that I tried out Mandrake Linux, and the difference was > drastic; it was easier to setup than when I had installed Windows XP! > > Just a few months ago, my wife used my desktop (currently running Ubuntu > Linux), and decided to switch her laptop over. I personally would highly > recommend grabbing a Ubuntu CD and installing it for the beginner for 3 > reasons: > > 1) It works as a Live CD; you don't need to destroy everything on your hard > drive (at first). If you tell your computer to boot from the CD you > downloaded instead of the hard drive, it'll run Ubuntu without touching any > of your data on the hard drive. When you're done, simply shutdown, eject > the CD, and resume operations on (presumably) Windows XP or similar. This > applies to all Live CDs. > > 2) It's well thought out & easy to navigate: try out the live CD and just > move around a bit; check out home folders, applications, etc. Everything > from the menus to the application divisions is simple and intuitive. My > wife, with little/no Linux experience, jumped right in. This applies to all > distributions of Linux that utilize GNOME. > > For a similar ease but different style, some distributions use KDE (which > is what I started out with). Mandriva is a good quality distribution that > uses KDE by default. Or, Kubuntu is a KDE-default version of Ubuntu. > > 3) It's package-management system is second-to-none. This holds true for > all Debian-based distributions. The .deb is a standardized package format > (you will also see .rpm or .tar.gz being tossed about). .deb is wonderful > in the sense that if there are conflicts between programs, or dependencies, > it will sort it out, or > at least tell you of the issue. .rpm does this to some degree, > but personally I have had some negative experiences with it. > Other people may tell you otherwise. It really, in the end, is up to you. > > 4) Community support. You'll notice that most of the above are available in > other versions of Linux. Red Hat also uses GNOME, Knoppix is a Live CD, > Debian uses .deb files, but despite the calibre of documentation and > community with some others, I have only seen Ubuntu tied with one other > distribution: Gentoo. I would recommend Gentoo once you've been around the > block a couple times, but it's definately a difficult pill to swallow > initially. > > Between forums, wikis, irc, mailing lists, etc, virtually every question I > have had or trouble spot I have hit has been dealt with, answered, or at > least guided me to the point where I can fix things myself. This is often > overlooked, but it is as valuable a part of the operating system as any > piece of software. > > Books are helpful, as are tutors, but as I'm finding right now (learning > the IBM AS/400 machines/OS atm) there is no comparison to hands-on > learning. All of us on the list are available for answering questions, and > don't feel pressured to take my advice (regarding Ubuntu) if another > distribution has triggered your curiosity. > > All the best, fellow wanderer > > -jordan > > On 8/14/06, Tipsy-in_Chicago Tipsy wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I am an absolute newbie to the world of Linux. I am interested in > > developing linux administrative skills. > > > > Is self learning the best route? If so, any books that will be helpful? > > > > I am also open to taking classes. > > > > Kindly, get back to me with the best approach. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > KT -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060817/b365058f/attachment-0001.htm From jus at krytosvirus.com Thu Aug 17 00:30:42 2006 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 00:30:42 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Newbie; Looking for a Linux Instructor In-Reply-To: <22227738.1155791542373.JavaMail.root@sniper50> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <990024.1155579192502.JavaMail.root@Sniper26> <22227738.1155791542373.JavaMail.root@sniper50> Message-ID: <200608170030.42355.jus@krytosvirus.com> Sorry if the ascii art looks messed up... looked good in my composer. If you wanna see it in the original format then on a gentoo system do cat /etc/issue.logo or else http://www.krytosvirus.com/images/gentoo.png From dpk at mninter.net Thu Aug 17 06:26:14 2006 From: dpk at mninter.net (Dwayne) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 06:26:14 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Gentoo linux help Message-ID: <200608170626.14458.dpk@mninter.net> Hi all I'm looking for someone such as maybe a Gentoo guru of sorts out possibly on the west side of the cities. To talk with and maybe meet up with to discuss Gentoo and its workings. Ive had Gentoo running now about 18 months and for a complete newbie I thinks thats pretty good . reading up on the migrating to modular x now . Thanks Dwayne From rclark at lakesplus.com Thu Aug 17 18:08:04 2006 From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 18:08:04 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Hardware Firewalls - recommendations Message-ID: <1155856084.13591.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> I am working with a banking client. They need to upgrade their firewall. I would like to find a hardware based solution to protect them, rather than configuring a PC with just a firewall on it (they need to be able to check the logs, etc. easily). I have run across the Firebox Edge X5 ... nice looking system, has logging, filtering, blocking, can also ban URLs, etc. The one thing I am looking for in addition to that is the ability to scan email attachments as they go out of the system ... as to size .. or if driver license numbers are contained in the message/attachment. The long and the short of it is that I need to scan things as they go out and strip attachments if possible. Thoughts? Suggestions? Experience in getting hardware like this? The internal server will be running Windows server 2003 ... but it will not be running a mail server or anything of the sort. Their email is handled by an outside ISP. Thanks in advance. Randy From jstuart at edenpr.k12.mn.us Thu Aug 17 22:00:02 2006 From: jstuart at edenpr.k12.mn.us (Joe Stuart) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 22:00:02 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] wireless problem Message-ID: I have a strange network problem. It's with my home network and it's layed out like this. Cable modem -> linkys router/switch -> Linksys access Point. The problem I am having is that the computers that are wired to the router cannot communicate with the wireless computers. From a wireless computer I can ping a computer wired to the router, but not vice versa. Any suggestions is appreciated. If more info is needed please let me know. - Joe From jstuart at edenpr.k12.mn.us Thu Aug 17 22:40:54 2006 From: jstuart at edenpr.k12.mn.us (Joe Stuart) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 22:40:54 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] wireless problem Message-ID: Oooops. Thank you for your help. >>> 8/17/2006 10:20:44 PM >>> Any chance the wireless PC is XP and has firewalling turned on? > I have a strange network problem. It's with my home network and it's > layed out like this. Cable modem -> linkys router/switch -> Linksys > access Point. > > The problem I am having is that the computers that are wired to the > router cannot communicate with the wireless computers. From a wireless > computer I can ping a computer wired to the router, but not vice versa. > > Any suggestions is appreciated. If more info is needed please let me > know. > > - Joe > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From jeruvin at gmail.com Fri Aug 18 07:39:26 2006 From: jeruvin at gmail.com (jason reynolds) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 07:39:26 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] wireless problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6eb23c4e0608180539h4dcb32cat7d203395d48d6ad1@mail.gmail.com> I have mine setup as: Internet --> Wireless --> Switch With DHCP only on the Wireless Access Point. Since it acts as your firewall as well it's all you need. Jason Reynolds On 8/17/06, Joe Stuart wrote: > > I have a strange network problem. It's with my home network and it's > layed out like this. Cable modem -> linkys router/switch -> Linksys > access Point. > > The problem I am having is that the computers that are wired to the > router cannot communicate with the wireless computers. From a wireless > computer I can ping a computer wired to the router, but not vice versa. > > Any suggestions is appreciated. If more info is needed please let me > know. > > - Joe > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060818/c571fc32/attachment.htm From Larry.Pint at ntuminc.com Fri Aug 18 09:05:11 2006 From: Larry.Pint at ntuminc.com (Larry R. Pint) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 09:05:11 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Hardware Firewalls - recommendations In-Reply-To: <1155856084.13591.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: We use Astaro Secure Gateway on a pc as our perimeter security but they now have hardware firewall appliances also. It does very well in reviews. We have been using it for 1 1/2 years now. It has virus protection and surf restrictions, packet filter rules, routing and all the other stuff you'd expect in a firewall. The blocking of driver license number will probably take a special filter no matter what route you go. How are you going to tell a DL# from a SS# from an account number (all of which you probably want to block) from a number of other sorts? There are products specially designed to handle this sort of thing, though I have never used any of them. Larry R. Pint National Truck Underwriting Managers, Inc. larry.pint at ntuminc.com 952-229-3451 > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn- > linux.org] On Behalf Of Randy Clarksean > Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 6:08 PM > To: tclug > Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Hardware Firewalls - recommendations > > > I am working with a banking client. They need to upgrade their > firewall. I would like to find a hardware based solution to protect > them, rather than configuring a PC with just a firewall on it (they need > to be able to check the logs, etc. easily). > > I have run across the Firebox Edge X5 ... nice looking system, has > logging, filtering, blocking, can also ban URLs, etc. The one thing I am > looking for in addition to that is the ability to scan email attachments > as they go out of the system ... as to size .. or if driver license > numbers are contained in the message/attachment. The long and the short > of it is that I need to scan things as they go out and strip attachments > if possible. > > Thoughts? Suggestions? Experience in getting hardware like this? > > The internal server will be running Windows server 2003 ... but it will > not be running a mail server or anything of the sort. Their email is > handled by an outside ISP. > > Thanks in advance. > > Randy > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dniesen at gmail.com Sun Aug 20 17:38:22 2006 From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan Niesen) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 17:38:22 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Running X programs from a script Message-ID: <47f4d5e70608201538x50b3dc4etdfe43b02ee168358@mail.gmail.com> I'm starting an X session and trying to get a video playing on top of a web page. Here's the excerpt form my startup script: /usr/bin/firefox http://127.0.0.1/ & /usr/bin/xine -G 950x750+-50+-50 -I -n --loop --no-splash --no-logo /videos/comm.m3u Now what's happening is that Xine is loading faster so Firefox ends up on top of Xine. Is there a way to set which program is on top from the script? -- Donovan Niesen From aristophrenic at warpmail.net Sun Aug 20 19:03:19 2006 From: aristophrenic at warpmail.net (Isaac Atilano) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 19:03:19 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Running X programs from a script In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70608201538x50b3dc4etdfe43b02ee168358@mail.gmail.com> References: <47f4d5e70608201538x50b3dc4etdfe43b02ee168358@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1156118599.2266.268998505@webmail.messagingengine.com> You can try using the "at" command to delay the launch of xine for a few seconds while firefox finishes loading. ----- Original message ----- From: "Donovan Niesen" To: "TCLug List" Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 17:38:22 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Running X programs from a script I'm starting an X session and trying to get a video playing on top of a web page. Here's the excerpt form my startup script: /usr/bin/firefox http://127.0.0.1/ & /usr/bin/xine -G 950x750+-50+-50 -I -n --loop --no-splash --no-logo /videos/comm.m3u Now what's happening is that Xine is loading faster so Firefox ends up on top of Xine. Is there a way to set which program is on top from the script? -- Donovan Niesen _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dniesen at gmail.com Sun Aug 20 20:45:25 2006 From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan Niesen) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 20:45:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Running X programs from a script In-Reply-To: <1156118599.2266.268998505@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <47f4d5e70608201538x50b3dc4etdfe43b02ee168358@mail.gmail.com> <1156118599.2266.268998505@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <47f4d5e70608201845n23e9056al6c8c82abd929ca1d@mail.gmail.com> I cheated and used "sleep 5". That gave firefox enough time to load. Thanks for the reply! On 8/20/06, Isaac Atilano wrote: > You can try using the "at" command to delay the launch of xine for a few > seconds while firefox finishes loading. > > > ----- Original message ----- > From: "Donovan Niesen" > To: "TCLug List" > Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 17:38:22 -0500 > Subject: [tclug-list] Running X programs from a script > > I'm starting an X session and trying to get a video playing on top of > a web page. Here's the excerpt form my startup script: > > /usr/bin/firefox http://127.0.0.1/ & > /usr/bin/xine -G 950x750+-50+-50 -I -n --loop --no-splash --no-logo > /videos/comm.m3u > > Now what's happening is that Xine is loading faster so Firefox ends up > on top of Xine. Is there a way to set which program is on top from > the script? > > -- > Donovan Niesen > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Donovan Niesen From aristophrenic at warpmail.net Mon Aug 21 10:19:33 2006 From: aristophrenic at warpmail.net (Isaac Atilano) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 10:19:33 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic In-Reply-To: <44E3CF1C.6070903@visi.com> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <101e49ea0608141108v7ff2ebd3qb80b86000fdaf7b7@mail.gmail.com> <101e49ea0608150624p25a701f6l63d9bdb231c243d2@mail.gmail.com> <15790.69.76.4.32.1155683813.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <44E35A51.2060009@beitsahour.net> <1155755534.7174.268536649@webmail.messagingengine.com> <44E3CF1C.6070903@visi.com> Message-ID: <1156173573.7318.269048548@webmail.messagingengine.com> Great! Who on this list can can help us with the actual implementation of the poll on TCLUG's website? ----- Original message ----- From: "Bob Hartmann" To: Cc: "TCLUG" Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 21:06:20 -0500 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Poll topic I'll second the motion, and offer help if any is needed. I would be very interested in learning how others here approach that not-so-simple question. Isaac Atilano wrote: >This discussion gave me an idea that I hope will be interesting to >others on this list. I think a person's viewpoint on this discussion is >primarily influenced by their reasons for using Linux. In order to get a >feel for where the TCLUG members stand I'd like to move for a poll. The >poll would ask the question "What is your primary reason for using >Linux?" The major philosophical, political and technical reasons would >then be the responses. >Any backers? > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kc0iog at gmail.com Mon Aug 21 10:58:06 2006 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 10:58:06 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic In-Reply-To: <1156173573.7318.269048548@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <101e49ea0608141108v7ff2ebd3qb80b86000fdaf7b7@mail.gmail.com> <101e49ea0608150624p25a701f6l63d9bdb231c243d2@mail.gmail.com> <15790.69.76.4.32.1155683813.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <44E35A51.2060009@beitsahour.net> <1155755534.7174.268536649@webmail.messagingengine.com> <44E3CF1C.6070903@visi.com> <1156173573.7318.269048548@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <2c6699da0608210858r7c93b39ao56c13344f22d6f42@mail.gmail.com> On 8/21/06, Isaac Atilano wrote: > Great! Who on this list can can help us with the actual implementation > of the poll on TCLUG's website? That'd be me. If you ever need to get my attention, e-mail me directly and DO NOT put TCLUG in the subject. I don't always read my LUG mail folder. Poll is up, http://www.tclug.org -Brian From admin at lctn.org Mon Aug 21 11:16:11 2006 From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 11:16:11 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Perl help Message-ID: <1375.64.8.148.7.1156176971.squirrel@lctn.org> I have a Perl script (contact.pl) that we are using for customized web forms.It has turned out to be a very good tool, but I need to customize it so it has drop down menus in a few places. The person who wrote the script is not familiar enough with Perl to do this. Is there a Perl pro on the list that can help me on this, or would it be better to join a Perl list to get the help I need? Raymond -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From tclug at freakzilla.com Mon Aug 21 11:23:29 2006 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 11:23:29 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Perl help In-Reply-To: <1375.64.8.148.7.1156176971.squirrel@lctn.org> References: <1375.64.8.148.7.1156176971.squirrel@lctn.org> Message-ID: You don't really need a Perl pro for that. It's really an HTML thing. Your perl script either already processes everything from the form or can easily be told to, so you just need to stick the pull-down menus in the HTML file (which may or may not be generated by the script). On Mon, 21 Aug 2006, admin at lctn.org wrote: > I have a Perl script (contact.pl) that we are using for customized web > forms.It has turned out to be a very good tool, but I need to customize it > so it has drop down menus in a few places. The person who wrote the script > is not familiar enough with Perl to do this. Is there a Perl pro on the > list that can help me on this, or would it be better to join a Perl list > to get the help I need? > > > Raymond > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -Yaron -- From admin at lctn.org Mon Aug 21 11:42:33 2006 From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 11:42:33 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Perl help In-Reply-To: References: <1375.64.8.148.7.1156176971.squirrel@lctn.org> Message-ID: <1409.64.8.148.7.1156178553.squirrel@lctn.org> > You don't really need a Perl pro for that. It's really an HTML thing. Your > perl script either already processes everything from the form or can > easily be told to, so you just need to stick the pull-down menus in the > HTML file (which may or may not be generated by the script). That is not the case here. Everything is in the script. You can find it here for review: http://ostermiller.org/contactform/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From jonathan.kline at isaidno.net Mon Aug 21 11:42:30 2006 From: jonathan.kline at isaidno.net (Jonathan Kline) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 11:42:30 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Perl help In-Reply-To: <1375.64.8.148.7.1156176971.squirrel@lctn.org> References: <1375.64.8.148.7.1156176971.squirrel@lctn.org> Message-ID: <200608211142.30870.jonathan.kline@isaidno.net> It's really not as much a perl as it a html/forms question... but whatever... essentially a drop down box in a html form will return to the data to the user as ElementName=Value of selected Item. You would have to check how multi select boxes work, but it's probably comma delimited or similar (that or it essentially posts the field multiple times and sets a unique value for each instance). E.g.
Then on Post, you would have a "variable" called DropDown which would contain either a or b depending on what was selected. Make sense? On Monday 21 August 2006 11:16, admin at lctn.org wrote: > I have a Perl script (contact.pl) that we are using for customized web > forms.It has turned out to be a very good tool, but I need to customize it > so it has drop down menus in a few places. The person who wrote the script > is not familiar enough with Perl to do this. Is there a Perl pro on the > list that can help me on this, or would it be better to join a Perl list > to get the help I need? > > > Raymond -- Jonathan Kline From dan at dandrake.org Mon Aug 21 12:42:32 2006 From: dan at dandrake.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 12:42:32 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] CPAN question Message-ID: <20060821174232.GA13755@dandrake.org> I don't know Perl or CPAN usage very well, and I'm trying to install the grepmail [1] program. This is on my work computer and I don't have root access, so I'm trying to use CPAN to handle the dependencies for me in a reasonable way. I have the installation started, but I keep getting this message: *** Installing dependencies... *** You are not allowed to write to the directory '/var/tmp/cpan-drake/sources'; the installation may fail due to insufficient permissions. But the directory it complains about is 755 with me as owner: drwxr-xr-x 4 drake math 4096 Aug 21 12:16 /var/tmp/cpan-drake/sources/ Because of this problem, the installation fails. How can I fix this? Thanks. Dan 1. http://grepmail.sourceforge.net -- Ceci n'est pas une .signature. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060821/f892d648/attachment.pgp From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Mon Aug 21 15:49:08 2006 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 15:49:08 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] CPAN question In-Reply-To: <20060821174232.GA13755@dandrake.org> References: <20060821174232.GA13755@dandrake.org> Message-ID: <20060821204908.GA7606@mail.el-swifto.com> On Mon, Aug 21, 2006 at 12:42:32PM -0500, Dan Drake wrote: > I don't know Perl or CPAN usage very well, and I'm trying to install > the grepmail [1] program. This is on my work computer and I don't have > root access, so I'm trying to use CPAN to handle the dependencies for > me in a reasonable way. > > I have the installation started, but I keep getting this message: > > *** Installing dependencies... > *** You are not allowed to write to the directory > '/var/tmp/cpan-drake/sources'; the installation may fail due to > insufficient permissions. > > But the directory it complains about is 755 with me as owner: > > drwxr-xr-x 4 drake math 4096 Aug 21 12:16 /var/tmp/cpan-drake/sources/ > > Because of this problem, the installation fails. How can I fix this? > Thanks. Sounds like it's not a CPAN problem at all, but a permissions problem. I just downloaded the latest grepmail from CPAN and installed in ~/grepmail/; can you do the same? -- trammell at el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota From webmaster at mn-linux.org Mon Aug 21 22:33:42 2006 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 22:33:42 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200608220333.k7M3Xg701821@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: Ethernet Print Server - $15 I have an older D-Link print server for sale - still works great, but I've replaced it with a wireless version. It has a 10MBit wired ethernet jack and a parallel port connector to plug in to a printer. (No USB) Comes with power adapter and CD. See http://support.dlink.com/ Products/view.asp? productid=DP-101P+# for information, or Google the product name: D-Link DP-101P+ print server. Please email or call 612-226-6836 if interested. $15 Seller Email address: ntraxler at mn dot rr dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From rclark at lakesplus.com Wed Aug 23 12:06:00 2006 From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 12:06:00 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Monitoring http activity, emails, etc. Message-ID: <1156352760.1904.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> Ok ... I had previously asked about firewall hardware and did get some good feedback. Now ... part two. I need some recommendations about Linux based software for scanning outgoing emails, http activity, etc. ... this would be behind the firewall and before everything jumps into a switch. SO ... all traffic would go through this. I am envisioning a simple box ... with a stripped down version of linux running ... where by the log files, etc. could ideally be accessed via a web browser. Anyone tried this or done it before? Thanks in advance. Randy From dalan at visi.com Wed Aug 23 21:06:44 2006 From: dalan at visi.com (Don) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 21:06:44 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Monitoring http activity, emails, etc. In-Reply-To: <1156352760.1904.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Have you looked at Coyota Linux. This is a stripped down version of linux meant to be a firewall. Just a though. Don Sparish -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Randy Clarksean Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 12:06 PM To: tclug Subject: [tclug-list] Monitoring http activity, emails, etc. Ok ... I had previously asked about firewall hardware and did get some good feedback. Now ... part two. I need some recommendations about Linux based software for scanning outgoing emails, http activity, etc. ... this would be behind the firewall and before everything jumps into a switch. SO ... all traffic would go through this. I am envisioning a simple box ... with a stripped down version of linux running ... where by the log files, etc. could ideally be accessed via a web browser. Anyone tried this or done it before? Thanks in advance. Randy _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jus at krytosvirus.com Wed Aug 23 21:28:00 2006 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 21:28:00 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Monitoring http activity, emails, etc. In-Reply-To: <18785571.1156353135790.JavaMail.root@sniper11> References: <18785571.1156353135790.JavaMail.root@sniper11> Message-ID: <200608232128.01247.jus@krytosvirus.com> Scanning outbound emails can be any MTA such as Postfix with Spamassassin, Clamav, or whatever you choose. HTTP activity could probably done via squid. There are several commercial appliances/products that can more or less do what you want but it sounds like you're looking for an OSS. I am not aware of anything free that will tie everything together exactly the way you want out of the box but I imagine there are apps/front ends and what not that could be used to help you get where you're going such as webmin. Squid and Postfix are fairly easy to setup and configure in their own right. As for commercial products, depending on your budget, you could look at a Lokbox http://www.loktechnology.com/ (OpenBSD based). Good luck On Wednesday 23 August 2006 12:06, Randy Clarksean wrote: > Ok ... I had previously asked about firewall hardware and did get some > good feedback. > > Now ... part two. I need some recommendations about Linux based > software for scanning outgoing emails, http activity, etc. ... this > would be behind the firewall and before everything jumps into a switch. > SO ... all traffic would go through this. > > I am envisioning a simple box ... with a stripped down version of linux > running ... where by the log files, etc. could ideally be accessed via a > web browser. > > Anyone tried this or done it before? > > Thanks in advance. > > Randy > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Thu Aug 24 10:56:18 2006 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:56:18 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic In-Reply-To: <2c6699da0608210858r7c93b39ao56c13344f22d6f42@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <101e49ea0608141108v7ff2ebd3qb80b86000fdaf7b7@mail.gmail.com> <101e49ea0608150624p25a701f6l63d9bdb231c243d2@mail.gmail.com> <15790.69.76.4.32.1155683813.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <44E35A51.2060009@beitsahour.net> <1155755534.7174.268536649@webmail.messagingengine.com> <44E3CF1C.6070903@visi.com> <1156173573.7318.269048548@webmail.messagingengine.com> <2c6699da0608210858r7c93b39ao56c13344f22d6f42@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Aug 2006, Brian Wall wrote: > Poll is up, http://www.tclug.org I had to choose just one. For me it?s really about getting the job done in my scientific work. Today, nothing compares to Linux. Personally, I value the Freeness a lot, but if it weren?t working, I wouldn?t be using it. Mike -- Michael B. Miller, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Division of Epidemiology and Community Health and Institute of Human Genetics University of Minnesota http://taxa.epi.umn.edu/~mbmiller/ From andyzib at gmail.com Thu Aug 24 12:29:27 2006 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 12:29:27 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Monitoring http activity, emails, etc. In-Reply-To: <200608232128.01247.jus@krytosvirus.com> References: <18785571.1156353135790.JavaMail.root@sniper11> <200608232128.01247.jus@krytosvirus.com> Message-ID: For the web stuff, you could force everyone to use your squid proxy. You can configure squid to use apache's log format and use apache tools such as webalizer to monitor traffic. There are also some tools customized for squid. There are a few ways you can go with a Web Proxy. If you want to force it, you will have to allow outgoing web traffic only from your proxy server. This is a given for any method. From webmaster at mn-linux.org Thu Aug 24 12:50:05 2006 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 12:50:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200608241750.k7OHo5g03197@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: Adaptec 29160 Working pulls: 2 x Adaptec 29160. $25 each. I live in Shoreview but I'm flexible to meet in Roseville or St. Paul. florin at i u c h a. net Seller Email address: florin dot iucha at gmail dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From webmaster at mn-linux.org Fri Aug 25 06:11:38 2006 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 06:11:38 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200608251111.k7PBBcM15247@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Free Subject: Home Typists Needed! Home Typists Needed! Make $200-950 per day! You can start making money in 30 minutes! Get paid every 2 weeks by mail with a check or bank transfer. http://go2-url.com/aeiui Seller Email address: blrbindu at yahoo dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From queasyfish at yahoo.com Fri Aug 25 07:27:21 2006 From: queasyfish at yahoo.com (queasyfish) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 05:27:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Help request: Dual-boot access problem Message-ID: <20060825122721.15203.qmail@web38913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello; Linux newbie/ fairly skilled Windows user - looking for some help. I've created a dual boot (Win XP/Suse 10.1) on my laptop. After several problems and some web searching, it seems that the general consensus is that 10.1 is perhaps not the best version. So I DL'd a Suse 10.0 ISO, burned the DVD, put it in the drive and rebooted. Came up to the bootloader as usual but did not offer to boot from the media in the drive. So I decided to try starting "fresh", and not really thinking about it too hard: I went into Windows and (though My Computer-Manage-Disc Managment) deleted the two sub-partitions on the Linux partition - leaving the Windows partition and a single "other" partition where Linux was/is. When I rebooted, the bootloader stops with an "error 22" and will not boot into anything (I was assuming that it would boot into Windows). Anyway, this is my issue - how to boot into windows/fix the bootloader. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance John queasyfish at yahoo.com --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060825/c8e8f631/attachment.htm From aristophrenic at warpmail.net Fri Aug 25 08:17:23 2006 From: aristophrenic at warpmail.net (Isaac Atilano) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 08:17:23 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Help request: Dual-boot access problem In-Reply-To: <20060825122721.15203.qmail@web38913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060825122721.15203.qmail@web38913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1156511843.24818.269405839@webmail.messagingengine.com> Boot your WinXP installation cd and it will let you repair the installation. ----- Original message ----- From: "queasyfish" To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 05:27:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Help request: Dual-boot access problem Hello; Linux newbie/ fairly skilled Windows user - looking for some help. I've created a dual boot (Win XP/Suse 10.1) on my laptop. After several problems and some web searching, it seems that the general consensus is that 10.1 is perhaps not the best version. So I DL'd a Suse 10.0 ISO, burned the DVD, put it in the drive and rebooted. Came up to the bootloader as usual but did not offer to boot from the media in the drive. So I decided to try starting "fresh", and not really thinking about it too hard: I went into Windows and (though My Computer-Manage-Disc Managment) deleted the two sub-partitions on the Linux partition - leaving the Windows partition and a single "other" partition where Linux was/is. When I rebooted, the bootloader stops with an "error 22" and will not boot into anything (I was assuming that it would boot into Windows). Anyway, this is my issue - how to boot into windows/fix the bootloader. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance John queasyfish at yahoo.com --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less. From florin at iucha.net Fri Aug 25 08:21:40 2006 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 08:21:40 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] SPAM? Was: New TCLUG Classified Ad In-Reply-To: <200608251111.k7PBBcM15247@crusader.real-time.com> References: <200608251111.k7PBBcM15247@crusader.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20060825132140.GD5401@iucha.net> On Fri, Aug 25, 2006 at 06:11:38AM -0500, TCLUG Classifieds wrote: > New TCLUG Classified Ad > > Category: Computer > > Type of Ad: For Free > > Subject: Home Typists Needed! > > Home Typists Needed! > Make $200-950 per day! > You can start making money in 30 minutes! > Get paid every 2 weeks by mail with a check or bank transfer. > http://go2-url.com/aeiui > > > Seller Email address: blrbindu at yahoo dot com I was just thinking about that yesterday, when I realized I forgot the password for my regular e-mail address and just created another account. Shouldn't the account e-mail be verified against the subscriber list? That way we can leverage the mailman's challenge/response protocol for checking e-mail addresses. Otherwise we will soon need a poll: "Do you support banning the TCLUG classifieds from sending messages to the list?" florin -- If we wish to count lines of code, we should not regard them as lines produced but as lines spent. -- Edsger Dijkstra -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060825/a76490d4/attachment.pgp From s.earl.martin at gmail.com Fri Aug 25 08:27:30 2006 From: s.earl.martin at gmail.com (Sam Martin) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 08:27:30 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Help request: Dual-boot access problem In-Reply-To: <20060825122721.15203.qmail@web38913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060825122721.15203.qmail@web38913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 8/25/06, queasyfish wrote: > When I rebooted, the bootloader stops with an "error 22" and will not boot > into anything (I was assuming that it would boot into Windows). Anyway, > this is my issue - how to boot into windows/fix the bootloader. I would imagine that there's a "restore" or "repair" option on the 10.1 CD's boot menu that would let you reinstall the bootloader without doing a full install, but I'm not familiar enough with it to know off-hand. Alternatively, from an ubuntu forum post I came across (at http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=206262) : You deleted grub when you deleted Ubuntu. Right now you do not have a boot loader to boot up XP. You can do 2 things. Reinstall Ubuntu or get a windows XP install disk. Boot to it. Select recovery mode by entering r at the first prompt. It will take you through a quick dialogue eventually asking you which version of windows you want to use for the recovery. You only have 1 so enter 1 and it will give you a command line i.e. C:\ Enter this command there Code: fixmbr This will rewrite the mbr with windows bootloader and you will be able to boot to XP like you did before ubuntu From justin.kremer at gmail.com Fri Aug 25 09:38:42 2006 From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 09:38:42 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Help request: Dual-boot access problem In-Reply-To: <20060825122721.15203.qmail@web38913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060825122721.15203.qmail@web38913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <27e6356a0608250738t4b90680p9996e4a3b9d1895@mail.gmail.com> What I have done in similar situations is boot to a Win98 floppy or cdrom and run: fdisk /mbr This should restore your windows bootloader to how it was before grub/lilo was installed. You don't need grub/lilo back on there until after you have reinstalled linux, and the reinstall process will take care of that for you. - Justin On 8/25/06, queasyfish wrote: > Hello; > > Linux newbie/ fairly skilled Windows user - looking for some help. > > I've created a dual boot (Win XP/Suse 10.1) on my laptop. After several > problems and some web searching, it seems that the general consensus is > that 10.1 is perhaps not the best version. So I DL'd a Suse 10.0 ISO, > burned the DVD, put it in the drive and rebooted. Came up to the bootloader > as usual but did not offer to boot from the media in the drive. > > So I decided to try starting "fresh", and not really thinking about it too > hard: I went into Windows and (though My Computer-Manage-Disc Managment) > deleted the two sub-partitions on the Linux partition - leaving the Windows > partition and a single "other" partition where Linux was/is. > > When I rebooted, the bootloader stops with an "error 22" and will not boot > into anything (I was assuming that it would boot into Windows). Anyway, > this is my issue - how to boot into windows/fix the bootloader. Any help > would be appreciated. > > Thanks in advance > John > queasyfish at yahoo.com From joey.rockhold at gmail.com Fri Aug 25 10:54:43 2006 From: joey.rockhold at gmail.com (Joey Rockhold) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:54:43 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Help request: Dual-boot access problem In-Reply-To: <27e6356a0608250738t4b90680p9996e4a3b9d1895@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060825122721.15203.qmail@web38913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <27e6356a0608250738t4b90680p9996e4a3b9d1895@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <101e49ea0608250854s2b263acfp2a0527fc7b1a0e6f@mail.gmail.com> I like to keep each operating system's bootloader separate. So I use a third-party boot loader. The easiest to use is GAG, The Graphical Boot Manager ( http://gag.sourceforge.net/ ). You can install this now, and then be able to boot windows without having to fix the mbr. There are many other boot loaders that would work for this. I find this CD very handy: Utilmate Boot CD ( http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/ ). On 8/25/06, Justin Kremer wrote: > What I have done in similar situations is boot to a Win98 floppy or > cdrom and run: fdisk /mbr > This should restore your windows bootloader to how it was before > grub/lilo was installed. You don't need grub/lilo back on there until > after you have reinstalled linux, and the reinstall process will take > care of that for you. > - Justin > > On 8/25/06, queasyfish wrote: > > Hello; > > > > Linux newbie/ fairly skilled Windows user - looking for some help. > > > > I've created a dual boot (Win XP/Suse 10.1) on my laptop. After several > > problems and some web searching, it seems that the general consensus is > > that 10.1 is perhaps not the best version. So I DL'd a Suse 10.0 ISO, > > burned the DVD, put it in the drive and rebooted. Came up to the bootloader > > as usual but did not offer to boot from the media in the drive. > > > > So I decided to try starting "fresh", and not really thinking about it too > > hard: I went into Windows and (though My Computer-Manage-Disc Managment) > > deleted the two sub-partitions on the Linux partition - leaving the Windows > > partition and a single "other" partition where Linux was/is. > > > > When I rebooted, the bootloader stops with an "error 22" and will not boot > > into anything (I was assuming that it would boot into Windows). Anyway, > > this is my issue - how to boot into windows/fix the bootloader. Any help > > would be appreciated. > > > > Thanks in advance > > John > > queasyfish at yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From blawrence at qwest.net Fri Aug 25 11:53:07 2006 From: blawrence at qwest.net (blawrence at qwest.net) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 12:53:07 -0400 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Will Asterisk work with Exchange 2007 UM? Message-ID: <380-2200685251653746@M2W015.mail2web.com> I'm faced with the need to create forensic test data for an Exchange 2007 server with unified messaging. Microsoft has a list of tested PBX and IP gateway products that are known to work (below) but I'd prefer to use Asterisk if possible. From everything I've read it appears that since Exchange uses SIP over IP and Asterisk uses SIP over UDP this will not work. I don't have a lot of experience with Asterisk but I know that many of you do so I was wondering if anyone knows of a plan to allow Asterisk to run SIP over IP or if there are any SIP gateways that will make this conversion. Reading through the Asterisk/Digium documentation and the asterisk-users list archive didn't turn up any clues. Anyone have any ideas? http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/exchange/2007/productevaluation /sysreqs.mspx#pbx Thanks in advance, Brian Lawrence -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From chad.nordstrom at gmail.com Fri Aug 25 12:03:08 2006 From: chad.nordstrom at gmail.com (c nordstrom) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 12:03:08 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Any one need some computer parts? Message-ID: <205db3470608251003l778f2753i8a453727f26f66c0@mail.gmail.com> Garage Sale today.... Tried to give it to a LUG, but no one returned my email. There loss is your gain. I have two computers in parts that are at our garage sale. My wife is making me get rid of the linux boxes "...to downsize our footprint." PIII 750, Celeron 333a slot 1 (great for overclockers), two Voodoo 1000 with SLI interface (now popular again with top end video cards), various memory sticks, 15" HP monitor, ATX Tyan MOBO, Creative X-gamer sound card, Geforce 4 video card, enhanced keyboard (I have most of the documentation/drivers/cd's on all this stuff.) I will see what else I can find. Only thing missing is the hard drive. Stop in and ask for the computer parts. 1931 Johnson St NE, Mpls, MN If you use the pass phrase "I forgot my Tux." My wife may give it all to you FREE. She really wants it gone. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~><)))'> Chad Nordstrom "I meet devils every day... I do not have to go to the Crossroads." - BB King -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060825/5e75fad4/attachment.htm From auditodd at comcast.net Fri Aug 25 15:04:27 2006 From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 20:04:27 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Help request: Dual-boot access problem Message-ID: <082520062004.25772.44EF57CB0001E065000064AC22007481840B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net> Here's another one: http://www2.arnes.si/~fkomar/xosl.org/home.html I haven't had a chance to evaluate it yet...... -- ---- ------ Todd Young -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Joey Rockhold" > I like to keep each operating system's bootloader separate. So I use > a third-party boot loader. The easiest to use is GAG, The Graphical > Boot Manager ( http://gag.sourceforge.net/ ). You can install this > now, and then be able to boot windows without having to fix the mbr. > There are many other boot loaders that would work for this. I find > this CD very handy: Utilmate Boot CD ( http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/ > ). From queasyfish at yahoo.com Fri Aug 25 15:18:38 2006 From: queasyfish at yahoo.com (queasyfish) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 13:18:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Help Request: Dual-Boot Access -RESOLVED- Thank You! Message-ID: <20060825201838.71799.qmail@web38909.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks to all those who responded. The solution was embarrassingly simple: Insert XP disk, run "repair", run fixmbr. Now on to Suse 10.0... Thanks again John --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1?/min. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060825/fc73e38a/attachment.htm From chad.nordstrom at gmail.com Fri Aug 25 17:45:16 2006 From: chad.nordstrom at gmail.com (c nordstrom) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 17:45:16 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Computer parts are now gone. Message-ID: <205db3470608251545v2ef7973eh5c5ce1373de32451@mail.gmail.com> They were picked up by a new owner.... a bit giddy I must say. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~><)))'> Chad Nordstrom "I meet devils every day... I do not have to go to the Crossroads." - BB King -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060825/90c02642/attachment.htm From tl_young at msn.com Sat Aug 26 10:47:10 2006 From: tl_young at msn.com (THOMAS YOUNG) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 10:47:10 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] email address Message-ID: I just wanted to provide my email address so I could post to your list.... thanks! Tom & Leha Young 22312 Watson Cir NW Elk River, MN 55330 (763)274-1524 tl_young at msn.com From matt.proud.list at gmail.com Sat Aug 26 16:14:49 2006 From: matt.proud.list at gmail.com (Matt Proud) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 16:14:49 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Call All Ubuntu/Debian Developers Message-ID: Greeting everyone, For the sake of community consolidation, I created a MN group on Ubuntu's launchpad. https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-us-mn Feel free to join. Best, Matt Proud From bhartm at visi.com Sun Aug 27 01:29:54 2006 From: bhartm at visi.com (Bob Hartmann) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 01:29:54 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <101e49ea0608141108v7ff2ebd3qb80b86000fdaf7b7@mail.gmail.com> <101e49ea0608150624p25a701f6l63d9bdb231c243d2@mail.gmail.com> <15790.69.76.4.32.1155683813.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <44E35A51.2060009@beitsahour.net> <1155755534.7174.268536649@webmail.messagingengine.com> <44E3CF1C.6070903@visi.com> <1156173573.7318.269048548@webmail.messagingengine.com> <2c6699da0608210858r7c93b39ao56c13344f22d6f42@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44F13BE2.40606@visi.com> http://www.mn-linux.org/sympoll/index.php?dispid=124 I chose free as in speech because no other radio described my reasons. free as in beer is close second. Two things, not related: 1. Success! stuff that works-- Apache, perl, php, MySql. Server software on linux is just better, I think. 2. Challenge! stuff that might work-- Audio and video capture and editing. ghahh. and one related to both of those 3. Stealing from Microsoft and Adobe is wrong. > > I had to choose just one. For me it?s really about getting the job > done in my scientific work. Today, nothing compares to Linux. > Personally, I value the Freeness a lot, but if it weren?t working, I > wouldn?t be using it. > > Mike > From teeahr1 at gmail.com Mon Aug 28 09:23:36 2006 From: teeahr1 at gmail.com (Pete Daniels) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 09:23:36 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] (Not really Linux but...) Dual-boot problems, part 2: I have hosed my Windows installation and need to get a password out Message-ID: <1f729feb0608280723i4f0d08a8xb8f5b280c8f50fc3@mail.gmail.com> I haven't actually booted to XP in several months (only when I really need a Civ4 fix). I tried last week, and it's eff-ed up, dudes. I boot fine, get through the XP load screen, to the login. That's when it gets weird. I have weird "flashing" effects, when I move the mouse or hit a key. Sometimes I can type through it, sometimes not. If I do get to the desktop, the mouse works, but the desktop is non-responsive. Let me repeat, I haven't even booted XP up, probably all summer. I'd be happy if I could get in for twenty minutes, so I can get my (long-forgotten, asterisked) ICQ password out. After that, frankly, it's not worth the trouble to me anymore, and I'll probably just wipe it. Anyone want to buy some gently used games? Sorry if this is "ramble-ly," it's very early in Peteworld. Anyway, my problem, to clarify: I need that damn password so I can keep my super-oldskool 5-digit ICQ number. I don't care how I accomplish that, as I have nothing else of any worth on that partition and don't plan on keeping Windows for five minutes longer than it takes to get the password out. Any advice would be gratefully received. Hope you're all having a decent morning out there... -p.daniels -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060828/05f07998/attachment.htm From teeahr1 at gmail.com Mon Aug 28 09:23:36 2006 From: teeahr1 at gmail.com (Pete Daniels) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 09:23:36 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] (Not really Linux but...) Dual-boot problems, part 2: I have hosed my Windows installation and need to get a password out Message-ID: <1f729feb0608280723i4f0d08a8xb8f5b280c8f50fc3@mail.gmail.com> I haven't actually booted to XP in several months (only when I really need a Civ4 fix). I tried last week, and it's eff-ed up, dudes. I boot fine, get through the XP load screen, to the login. That's when it gets weird. I have weird "flashing" effects, when I move the mouse or hit a key. Sometimes I can type through it, sometimes not. If I do get to the desktop, the mouse works, but the desktop is non-responsive. Let me repeat, I haven't even booted XP up, probably all summer. I'd be happy if I could get in for twenty minutes, so I can get my (long-forgotten, asterisked) ICQ password out. After that, frankly, it's not worth the trouble to me anymore, and I'll probably just wipe it. Anyone want to buy some gently used games? Sorry if this is "ramble-ly," it's very early in Peteworld. Anyway, my problem, to clarify: I need that damn password so I can keep my super-oldskool 5-digit ICQ number. I don't care how I accomplish that, as I have nothing else of any worth on that partition and don't plan on keeping Windows for five minutes longer than it takes to get the password out. Any advice would be gratefully received. Hope you're all having a decent morning out there... -p.daniels -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060828/05f07998/attachment-0001.htm From dniesen at gmail.com Mon Aug 28 09:36:56 2006 From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan Niesen) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 09:36:56 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] (Not really Linux but...) Dual-boot problems, part 2: I have hosed my Windows installation and need to get a password out In-Reply-To: <1f729feb0608280723i4f0d08a8xb8f5b280c8f50fc3@mail.gmail.com> References: <1f729feb0608280723i4f0d08a8xb8f5b280c8f50fc3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47f4d5e70608280736w6de58ca2td1541543614aedbe@mail.gmail.com> On 8/28/06, Pete Daniels wrote: > > I haven't actually booted to XP in several months (only when I really need > a Civ4 fix). I tried last week, and it's eff-ed up, dudes. I boot fine, > get through the XP load screen, to the login. That's when it gets weird. I > have weird "flashing" effects, when I move the mouse or hit a key. > Sometimes I can type through it, sometimes not. If I do get to the desktop, > the mouse works, but the desktop is non-responsive. > > Let me repeat, I haven't even booted XP up, probably all summer. I'd be > happy if I could get in for twenty minutes, so I can get my (long-forgotten, > asterisked) ICQ password out. After that, frankly, it's not worth the > trouble to me anymore, and I'll probably just wipe it. Anyone want to buy > some gently used games? > > Sorry if this is "ramble-ly," it's very early in Peteworld. Anyway, my > problem, to clarify: I need that damn password so I can keep my > super-oldskool 5-digit ICQ number. I don't care how I accomplish that, as I > have nothing else of any worth on that partition and don't plan on keeping > Windows for five minutes longer than it takes to get the password out. Any > advice would be gratefully received. Hope you're all having a decent > morning out there... > > -p.daniels > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > Maybe this is too obvious but can't you just reset your ICQ password from the website? https://www.icq.com/password/ -- Donovan Niesen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060828/7dedd41c/attachment.htm From teeahr1 at gmail.com Mon Aug 28 09:38:39 2006 From: teeahr1 at gmail.com (Pete Daniels) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 09:38:39 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] (Not really Linux but...) Dual-boot problems, part 2: I have hosed my Windows installation and need to get a password out In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70608280736w6de58ca2td1541543614aedbe@mail.gmail.com> References: <1f729feb0608280723i4f0d08a8xb8f5b280c8f50fc3@mail.gmail.com> <47f4d5e70608280736w6de58ca2td1541543614aedbe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f729feb0608280738o26e7dedamfc8d64be8e668dff@mail.gmail.com> Should have mentioned that. I registered *years* ago, and I guess I don't remember the email address I used. I can't imagine how that's possible, but there you have it. On 8/28/06, Donovan Niesen wrote: > > On 8/28/06, Pete Daniels > > wrote: > > > I haven't actually booted to XP in several months (only when I really > need a Civ4 fix). I tried last week, and it's eff-ed up, dudes. I boot > fine, get through the XP load screen, to the login. That's when it gets > weird. I have weird "flashing" effects, when I move the mouse or hit a > key. Sometimes I can type through it, sometimes not. If I do get to the > desktop, the mouse works, but the desktop is non-responsive. > > Let me repeat, I haven't even booted XP up, probably all summer. I'd be > happy if I could get in for twenty minutes, so I can get my (long-forgotten, > asterisked) ICQ password out. After that, frankly, it's not worth the > trouble to me anymore, and I'll probably just wipe it. Anyone want to buy > some gently used games? > > Sorry if this is "ramble-ly," it's very early in Peteworld. Anyway, my > problem, to clarify: I need that damn password so I can keep my > super-oldskool 5-digit ICQ number. I don't care how I accomplish that, as I > have nothing else of any worth on that partition and don't plan on keeping > Windows for five minutes longer than it takes to get the password out. Any > advice would be gratefully received. Hope you're all having a decent > morning out there... > > -p.daniels > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > Maybe this is too obvious but can't you just reset your ICQ password from > the website? > > https://www.icq.com/password/ > > > -- > Donovan Niesen > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060828/396520ea/attachment.htm From jonathan.kline at isaidno.net Mon Aug 28 09:37:56 2006 From: jonathan.kline at isaidno.net (Jonathan Kline) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 09:37:56 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] (Not really Linux but...) Dual-boot problems, part 2: I have hosed my Windows installation and need to get a password out In-Reply-To: <1f729feb0608280723i4f0d08a8xb8f5b280c8f50fc3@mail.gmail.com> References: <1f729feb0608280723i4f0d08a8xb8f5b280c8f50fc3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200608280937.56845.jonathan.kline@isaidno.net> Boot Linux, mount your Windows partion, poke a round a bit in the ICQ folder for a file containing the ini file... failing that it's probably in the registry, so I say use wine to start your icq installation, change your password, and walaa back to super l33tness. It should be fairly straight forward (well mounting the filesystem should be easy, both fat32 and ntfs partitions can be mount read only, fat32 can be mounted read/write and I believe that NTFS now has write support in the kernel). On Monday 28 August 2006 09:23, Pete Daniels wrote: > I haven't actually booted to XP in several months (only when I really need > a Civ4 fix). I tried last week, and it's eff-ed up, dudes. I boot fine, > get through the XP load screen, to the login. That's when it gets weird. > I have weird "flashing" effects, when I move the mouse or hit a key. > Sometimes I can type through it, sometimes not. If I do get to the > desktop, the mouse works, but the desktop is non-responsive. > > Let me repeat, I haven't even booted XP up, probably all summer. I'd be > happy if I could get in for twenty minutes, so I can get my > (long-forgotten, asterisked) ICQ password out. After that, frankly, it's > not worth the trouble to me anymore, and I'll probably just wipe it. > Anyone want to buy some gently used games? > > Sorry if this is "ramble-ly," it's very early in Peteworld. Anyway, my > problem, to clarify: I need that damn password so I can keep my > super-oldskool 5-digit ICQ number. I don't care how I accomplish that, as > I have nothing else of any worth on that partition and don't plan on > keeping Windows for five minutes longer than it takes to get the password > out. Any advice would be gratefully received. Hope you're all having a > decent morning out there... > > -p.daniels -- Jonathan Kline From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Mon Aug 28 10:07:22 2006 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 10:07:22 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: <44F13BE2.40606@visi.com> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <101e49ea0608141108v7ff2ebd3qb80b86000fdaf7b7@mail.gmail.com> <101e49ea0608150624p25a701f6l63d9bdb231c243d2@mail.gmail.com> <15790.69.76.4.32.1155683813.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <44E35A51.2060009@beitsahour.net> <1155755534.7174.268536649@webmail.messagingengine.com> <44E3CF1C.6070903@visi.com> <1156173573.7318.269048548@webmail.messagingengine.com> <2c6699da0608210858r7c93b39ao56c13344f22d6f42@mail.gmail.com> <44F13BE2.40606@visi.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Aug 2006, Bob Hartmann wrote: > 3. Stealing from Microsoft and Adobe is wrong. (A) It isn't "stealing" because you are not taking anything away from them when you make a copy of something. It's not like taking someone's purse. It's more like taking a photo of someone's purse. (B) Microsoft and Adobe want you to do it. It is much better for them that you use their software without paying them than it is for you to use other software (GNU/Linux, The Gimp, etc.) without paying them. Sure, they?d rather be paid, but that is unrealistic when they charge $750 for a product. That means they are pricing most of us out of the market on purpose. Thus, it is wrong to copy their programs because it helps to promote the proprietary model of software distribution and it hurts the FOSS movement. Mike From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Mon Aug 28 10:25:07 2006 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 10:25:07 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: References: <15790.69.76.4.32.1155683813.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <44E35A51.2060009@beitsahour.net> <1155755534.7174.268536649@webmail.messagingengine.com> <44E3CF1C.6070903@visi.com> <1156173573.7318.269048548@webmail.messagingengine.com> <2c6699da0608210858r7c93b39ao56c13344f22d6f42@mail.gmail.com> <44F13BE2.40606@visi.com> Message-ID: <20060828152507.GA32352@mail.el-swifto.com> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 10:07:22AM -0500, Mike Miller wrote: > On Sun, 27 Aug 2006, Bob Hartmann wrote: > >> 3. Stealing from Microsoft and Adobe is wrong. > > (A) It isn't "stealing" because you are not taking anything away from > them when you make a copy of something. It's not like taking > someone's purse. It's more like taking a photo of someone's purse. Utter nonsense. In today's legal climate, regardless of your opinion of the matter, it is a prosecutable offense, and it is irresponsible of you to say otherwise. > (B) Microsoft and Adobe want you to do it. It is much better for them > that you use their software without paying them than it is for you to > use other software (GNU/Linux, The Gimp, etc.) without paying them. > Sure, they?d rather be paid, but that is unrealistic when they charge > $750 for a product. That means they are pricing most of us out of the > market on purpose. See above. -- trammell at el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota From aristophrenic at warpmail.net Mon Aug 28 10:37:23 2006 From: aristophrenic at warpmail.net (Isaac Atilano) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 10:37:23 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: <20060828152507.GA32352@mail.el-swifto.com> References: <15790.69.76.4.32.1155683813.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <44E35A51.2060009@beitsahour.net> <1155755534.7174.268536649@webmail.messagingengine.com> <44E3CF1C.6070903@visi.com> <1156173573.7318.269048548@webmail.messagingengine.com> <2c6699da0608210858r7c93b39ao56c13344f22d6f42@mail.gmail.com> <44F13BE2.40606@visi.com> <20060828152507.GA32352@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: <1156779443.26614.269582788@webmail.messagingengine.com> Bob's point B is actually valid. I remember reading news stories of MS actually promoting "piracy" of their products in Asian markets in order to get people hooked on MS products. ----- Original message ----- From: "John J. Trammell" To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 10:25:07 -0500 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 10:07:22AM -0500, Mike Miller wrote: > On Sun, 27 Aug 2006, Bob Hartmann wrote: > >> 3. Stealing from Microsoft and Adobe is wrong. > > (A) It isn't "stealing" because you are not taking anything away from > them when you make a copy of something. It's not like taking > someone's purse. It's more like taking a photo of someone's purse. Utter nonsense. In today's legal climate, regardless of your opinion of the matter, it is a prosecutable offense, and it is irresponsible of you to say otherwise. > (B) Microsoft and Adobe want you to do it. It is much better for them > that you use their software without paying them than it is for you to > use other software (GNU/Linux, The Gimp, etc.) without paying them. > Sure, they?d rather be paid, but that is unrealistic when they charge > $750 for a product. That means they are pricing most of us out of the > market on purpose. See above. -- trammell at el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com Mon Aug 28 10:44:23 2006 From: daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com (Dan Armbrust) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 10:44:23 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: <20060828152507.GA32352@mail.el-swifto.com> References: <15790.69.76.4.32.1155683813.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <44E35A51.2060009@beitsahour.net> <1155755534.7174.268536649@webmail.messagingengine.com> <44E3CF1C.6070903@visi.com> <1156173573.7318.269048548@webmail.messagingengine.com> <2c6699da0608210858r7c93b39ao56c13344f22d6f42@mail.gmail.com> <44F13BE2.40606@visi.com> <20060828152507.GA32352@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: <44F30F57.9010707@gmail.com> John J. Trammell wrote: > On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 10:07:22AM -0500, Mike Miller wrote: >> On Sun, 27 Aug 2006, Bob Hartmann wrote: >> >>> 3. Stealing from Microsoft and Adobe is wrong. >> (A) It isn't "stealing" because you are not taking anything away from >> them when you make a copy of something. It's not like taking >> someone's purse. It's more like taking a photo of someone's purse. > > Utter nonsense. In today's legal climate, regardless of your opinion of > the matter, it is a prosecutable offense, and it is irresponsible of you > to say otherwise. Actually, you are now giving the utter nonsense. Something doesn't have to be defined as stealing to be a prosecutable offense. In the law, copyright infringement is not defined as stealing. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_violation "In Dowling v. United States (1985), the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit held that copyright infringement does not "easily equate" to theft and unauthorized copies are not stolen property." Of course, given the fact that the penalties are much harsher for making an unauthorized copy of something that it is to just go out and steal a copy off the shelf... I wouldn't say that either is wise. > >> (B) Microsoft and Adobe want you to do it. It is much better for them >> that you use their software without paying them than it is for you to >> use other software (GNU/Linux, The Gimp, etc.) without paying them. >> Sure, they?d rather be paid, but that is unrealistic when they charge >> $750 for a product. That means they are pricing most of us out of the >> market on purpose. > I agree here... If they wanted to stop the unauthorized copies that run rampant at universities, especially, they could today. Its not a hard technical problem. The don't, because they know that what people learn to use in school is what they will ask their future employers to buy. If they stopped the piracy of photoshop, for example, a few years from now, they would have a whole new crop of graphic artists with no need to purchase it at their jobs, because they would be using free or cheaper alternatives. Its a simple business decision. Dan From jeruvin at gmail.com Mon Aug 28 11:39:40 2006 From: jeruvin at gmail.com (jason reynolds) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 11:39:40 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: <44F30F57.9010707@gmail.com> References: <15790.69.76.4.32.1155683813.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <1155755534.7174.268536649@webmail.messagingengine.com> <44E3CF1C.6070903@visi.com> <1156173573.7318.269048548@webmail.messagingengine.com> <2c6699da0608210858r7c93b39ao56c13344f22d6f42@mail.gmail.com> <44F13BE2.40606@visi.com> <20060828152507.GA32352@mail.el-swifto.com> <44F30F57.9010707@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6eb23c4e0608280939w4eca33avdc5f50587dd21208@mail.gmail.com> > I agree here... If they wanted to stop the unauthorized copies that run > rampant at universities, especially, they could today. Its not a hard > technical problem. They don't, because they know that what people learn > to use in school is what they will ask their future employers to buy. > If they stopped the piracy of photoshop, for example, a few years from > now, they would have a whole new crop of graphic artists with no need to > purchase it at their jobs, because they would be using free or cheaper > alternatives. Its a simple business decision. I agree that they don't fight very hard to keep their users from growing (we all know people get stuck on software and once learned won't switch). I would be interested in how many students purchase the Student Discount versions vs. Pirated copies used instead. I know when I was in school I purchased software with the student discount since it was within my price range (due to the discount). I'd think a lot of students do this since it's most often paid with loan money and picked up along with books. Acrobat keeps "save as acrobat file" from word so you have to buy the bloated Acrobat Full version. Cell phone companies don't have a nice little application built into the phone to warn you when you're getting close to going over on minutes. It's all to control the cash flow for them and really upsets me. I think it's going to be a bit of a struggle to get FOSS classes at a lot of universities for the simple fact that Adobe and Microsoft are already in heavy use. Get FOSS used by more companies (and noticed by the universities) or students to start demanding classes and perhaps classes would be offered. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060828/be137e7d/attachment.htm From Larry.Pint at ntuminc.com Mon Aug 28 14:16:14 2006 From: Larry.Pint at ntuminc.com (Larry R. Pint) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:16:14 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Mounting smbfs drive Message-ID: I have a (hopefully) simple question about mounting a shared drive on a Windows machine under Linux (Red Hat release 9). In the fstab file, should I list the Windows drives to be mounted by their windows way of naming (\\computer_name\share_name ) or the Linux way of naming (//computer_name/share_name)? I'm currently using the windows naming format. Could that be causing problems with the mounting of the drives? The reason I'm asking is that we have a drive that was mounting correctly for quite some time (over a year). Now we've added mounting of another drive and it sometimes hangs up on a reboot at the point of mounting the smb drives (as far as I can tell). Once mounted, both drives work. The new drive was added to fstab immediately after the original drive. (I just copied and modified the line from the working drive.) They are the last two lines in the file. The two lines are: \\ir01\images$ /mnt/ir smbfs password=adminpassword,fmask=777,uid=563,dmask=777,gid=500,username=admi nname/ourdomain 0 0 \\e-mail-receiver\dropfax$ /mnt/dropfax smbfs password=adminpassword,fmask=777,uid=563,dmask=777,gid=500,username=admi nname/ourdomain 0 0 Thanks for any ideas you might have. Larry R. Pint National Truck Underwriting Managers, Inc. larry.pint at ntuminc.com 952-229-3451 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060828/7f026bdd/attachment.htm From andyzib at gmail.com Mon Aug 28 14:33:54 2006 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:33:54 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Mounting smbfs drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: smbmount --help :) The correct way is the Unix way, not the Windows way. ei: mount -t smbfs -o username=user,workgroup=doman,rw //server/share /mnt/point Also, if you will be creating files on the remote server using Windows Sharing, use cifs instead of smbfs. cifs takes the same arguments as smbfs. This little gotcha threw me for a loop as there are no problems reading a 2gb+ file over a smbfs mount. -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0; 0 rows returned From jsaxton at cems.umn.edu Mon Aug 28 14:51:32 2006 From: jsaxton at cems.umn.edu (John Saxton) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:51:32 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Mounting smbfs drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44F34944.1090907@cems.umn.edu> I would suggest creating a Samba credentials file. Simply create a file (ie: ~/.smbcred) with the lines: username=your_username password=your_password I chmodded this file 700. Now you can put the following in your fstab file: //ir01/images /mnt/ir smbfs uid=563, credentials=/home/your_local_user_name/.smbcred 0 0 This is more secure as your samba password isn't directly in your /etc/fstab file (which is system readable). HTH, John Larry R. Pint wrote: > > I have a (hopefully) simple question about mounting a shared drive on > a Windows machine under Linux (Red Hat release 9). > > In the fstab file, should I list the Windows drives to be mounted by > their windows way of naming (\\computer_name\share_name > ) or the Linux way of naming > (//computer_name/share_name)? I?m currently using the windows naming > format. Could that be causing problems with the mounting of the drives? > > The reason I?m asking is that we have a drive that was mounting > correctly for quite some time (over a year). Now we?ve added mounting > of another drive and it sometimes hangs up on a reboot at the point of > mounting the smb drives (as far as I can tell). Once mounted, both > drives work. The new drive was added to fstab immediately after the > original drive. (I just copied and modified the line from the working > drive.) They are the last two lines in the file. The two lines are: > > \\ir01\images$ /mnt/ir smbfs > password=adminpassword,fmask=777,uid=563,dmask=777,gid=500,username=adminname/ourdomain > 0 0 > > \\e-mail-receiver\dropfax$ > /mnt/dropfax smbfs > password=adminpassword,fmask=777,uid=563,dmask=777,gid=500,username=adminname/ourdomain > 0 0 > > Thanks for any ideas you might have. > > Larry R. Pint > > National Truck Underwriting Managers, Inc. > > larry.pint at ntuminc.com > > 952-229-3451 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From Larry.Pint at ntuminc.com Mon Aug 28 15:25:25 2006 From: Larry.Pint at ntuminc.com (Larry R. Pint) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 15:25:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Mounting smbfs drive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: For some strange reason, I used the "unix way" when I created a mount command, but the "windows way" for the entry in fstab. I will correct that. Thanks. I am writing (creating) lots of files on both the mounted windows drives. One has been working for over a year with no problems. All files created are rather small, if that makes any difference. I find no reference to a "cifs" in either the mount or smbmount help. What is it? Why should I use it instead of "smbfs"? Is it available in Red Hat release 9? Thanks again. Larry R. Pint National Truck Underwriting Managers, Inc. larry.pint at ntuminc.com 952-229-3451 > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew Zbikowski [mailto:andyzib at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 2:34 PM > To: Larry R. Pint > Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Mounting smbfs drive > > smbmount --help :) > > The correct way is the Unix way, not the Windows way. > > ei: > > mount -t smbfs -o username=user,workgroup=doman,rw //server/share > /mnt/point > > Also, if you will be creating files on the remote server using Windows > Sharing, use cifs instead of smbfs. cifs takes the same arguments as > smbfs. This little gotcha threw me for a loop as there are no problems > reading a 2gb+ file over a smbfs mount. > > > -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us > SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0; > 0 rows returned From Larry.Pint at ntuminc.com Mon Aug 28 15:26:55 2006 From: Larry.Pint at ntuminc.com (Larry R. Pint) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 15:26:55 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Mounting smbfs drive In-Reply-To: <44F34944.1090907@cems.umn.edu> Message-ID: Thanks for the tip. I wasn't real happy about having a username and password in that file. Now I know how to get around it. Larry R. Pint National Truck Underwriting Managers, Inc. larry.pint at ntuminc.com 952-229-3451 > -----Original Message----- > From: John Saxton [mailto:jsaxton at cems.umn.edu] > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 2:52 PM > To: Larry R. Pint > Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Mounting smbfs drive > > I would suggest creating a Samba credentials file. Simply create a file > (ie: ~/.smbcred) with the lines: > username=your_username > password=your_password > > I chmodded this file 700. > > Now you can put the following in your fstab file: > //ir01/images /mnt/ir smbfs uid=563, > credentials=/home/your_local_user_name/.smbcred 0 0 > > This is more secure as your samba password isn't directly in your > /etc/fstab file (which is system readable). > > HTH, > John > > Larry R. Pint wrote: > > > > I have a (hopefully) simple question about mounting a shared drive on > > a Windows machine under Linux (Red Hat release 9). > > > > In the fstab file, should I list the Windows drives to be mounted by > > their windows way of naming (\\computer_name\share_name > > ) or the Linux way of naming > > (//computer_name/share_name)? I'm currently using the windows naming > > format. Could that be causing problems with the mounting of the drives? > > > > The reason I'm asking is that we have a drive that was mounting > > correctly for quite some time (over a year). Now we've added mounting > > of another drive and it sometimes hangs up on a reboot at the point of > > mounting the smb drives (as far as I can tell). Once mounted, both > > drives work. The new drive was added to fstab immediately after the > > original drive. (I just copied and modified the line from the working > > drive.) They are the last two lines in the file. The two lines are: > > > > \\ir01\images$ /mnt/ir smbfs > > > password=adminpassword,fmask=777,uid=563,dmask=777,gid=500,username=admi nn > ame/ourdomain > > 0 0 > > > > \\e-mail-receiver\dropfax$ > > /mnt/dropfax smbfs > > > password=adminpassword,fmask=777,uid=563,dmask=777,gid=500,username=admi nn > ame/ourdomain > > 0 0 > > > > Thanks for any ideas you might have. > > > > Larry R. Pint > > > > National Truck Underwriting Managers, Inc. > > > > larry.pint at ntuminc.com > > > > 952-229-3451 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From webmaster at mn-linux.org Mon Aug 28 15:43:33 2006 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 15:43:33 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200608282043.k7SKhXJ00853@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: Want for Free Subject: University Location? Nonviolent Peaceforce is pursuing the vision of placing thousands of unarmed peacekeepers in troubled spots around the world. NonviolentPeaceforce.org is currently hosted on a machine in our office near loring park. I would love to speak with anyone at any local University regarding locating our website machine on a campus. Seller Email address: tclug at nvpf dot org http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From bhartm at visi.com Mon Aug 28 18:13:26 2006 From: bhartm at visi.com (Bob Hartmann) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 18:13:26 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: <1156779443.26614.269582788@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <15790.69.76.4.32.1155683813.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <44E35A51.2060009@beitsahour.net> <1155755534.7174.268536649@webmail.messagingengine.com> <44E3CF1C.6070903@visi.com> <1156173573.7318.269048548@webmail.messagingengine.com> <2c6699da0608210858r7c93b39ao56c13344f22d6f42@mail.gmail.com> <44F13BE2.40606@visi.com> <20060828152507.GA32352@mail.el-swifto.com> <1156779443.26614.269582788@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <44F37896.7080502@visi.com> All good points. I think Isaac meant to say Mike's point B is valid, btw. I believe Isaac initiated the poll ( I seconded) and I was just chiming in my reasons. I have no pity for the 2 huge companies I did mention when their software is used by non-paying nobodies like me. By saying it's "wrong" to "steal" from them, I meant it to be pretty generic: Not a specific legal or moral point to anyone but myself. I guess that relates to my second point (2. Challenge! stuff that might work-- Audio and video capture and editing. ghahh.) If I was using Photoshop or whatever, unpaid, I would be spending exactly the same money as I do with say, the Gimp, because I don't donate $ to FOSS projects. I just take them and use them. I attempt to contribute in small ways, (it's all I got!) by hanging out here and other lists. Admittedly, I have taken more than I give, but I try. My free as in speech vote stands, although the beer vote is certainly appropriate in my case. B-) Isaac Atilano wrote: >Bob's point B is actually valid. I remember reading news stories of MS >actually promoting "piracy" of their products in Asian markets in order >to get people hooked on MS products. > > > >----- Original message ----- >From: "John J. Trammell" >To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 10:25:07 -0500 >Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... > >On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 10:07:22AM -0500, Mike Miller wrote: > > >>On Sun, 27 Aug 2006, Bob Hartmann wrote: >> >> >> >>>3. Stealing from Microsoft and Adobe is wrong. >>> >>> >>(A) It isn't "stealing" because you are not taking anything away from >>them when you make a copy of something. It's not like taking >>someone's purse. It's more like taking a photo of someone's purse. >> >> > >Utter nonsense. In today's legal climate, regardless of your opinion of >the matter, it is a prosecutable offense, and it is irresponsible of you >to say otherwise. > > > >>(B) Microsoft and Adobe want you to do it. It is much better for them >>that you use their software without paying them than it is for you to >>use other software (GNU/Linux, The Gimp, etc.) without paying them. >>Sure, they?d rather be paid, but that is unrealistic when they charge >>$750 for a product. That means they are pricing most of us out of the >>market on purpose. >> >> > >See above. > > > From bhartm at visi.com Mon Aug 28 19:24:57 2006 From: bhartm at visi.com (Bob Hartmann) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 19:24:57 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] why does my mouse double-click? Message-ID: <44F38959.60003@visi.com> I need to do some testing around this, but I thought I'd throw it out in case someone has already cracked this nut: My dang rodent's button 1 is understood by my GUI apps to be clicking twice for every one I do with my finger. (I've tried a different finger, yes) But not every time. hmm. -Logitech USB wheelie optical mouse -Enlightenment and fluxbox on debian 2.6.12-1-multimedia-386 #1 Mon Apr 11 11:40:21 CEST 2005 i68 -Sure, you'd like to know what usbview says and hotplug and.. I think I'll try booting Knoppix with same hardware. Then try the mouse on a stolen OS with different HW. Apropos to my last post-- gimme, gimme. And, of course, enormous thanks. B-) From sac at cheesecake.org Tue Aug 29 06:24:58 2006 From: sac at cheesecake.org (Sidney Cammeresi) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 06:24:58 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] why does my mouse double-click? In-Reply-To: <44F38959.60003@visi.com> References: <44F38959.60003@visi.com> Message-ID: <20060829112458.GA14426@cheesecake.org> On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 at 19.24.57 -0500, Bob Hartmann wrote: > My dang rodent's button 1 is understood by my GUI apps to be clicking > twice for every one I do with my finger. (I've tried a different > finger, yes) But not every time. hmm. broken mouse. throw it away and buy a new one. -- Sidney CAMMERESI http://www.cheesecake.org/sac/ From bhartm at visi.com Tue Aug 29 16:17:33 2006 From: bhartm at visi.com (Bob Hartmann) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 16:17:33 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] why does my mouse double-click? In-Reply-To: <20060829112458.GA14426@cheesecake.org> References: <44F38959.60003@visi.com> <20060829112458.GA14426@cheesecake.org> Message-ID: <44F4AEED.2050106@visi.com> Yeah. Sidney Cammeresi wrote: >On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 at 19.24.57 -0500, Bob Hartmann wrote: > > >>My dang rodent's button 1 is understood by my GUI apps to be clicking >>twice for every one I do with my finger. (I've tried a different >>finger, yes) But not every time. hmm. >> >> > >broken mouse. throw it away and buy a new one. > > > From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Aug 30 17:04:17 2006 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 17:04:17 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: <20060828152507.GA32352@mail.el-swifto.com> References: <15790.69.76.4.32.1155683813.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <44E35A51.2060009@beitsahour.net> <1155755534.7174.268536649@webmail.messagingengine.com> <44E3CF1C.6070903@visi.com> <1156173573.7318.269048548@webmail.messagingengine.com> <2c6699da0608210858r7c93b39ao56c13344f22d6f42@mail.gmail.com> <44F13BE2.40606@visi.com> <20060828152507.GA32352@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Aug 2006, John J. Trammell wrote: > On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 10:07:22AM -0500, Mike Miller wrote: >> On Sun, 27 Aug 2006, Bob Hartmann wrote: >> >>> 3. Stealing from Microsoft and Adobe is wrong. >> >> (A) It isn't "stealing" because you are not taking anything away from >> them when you make a copy of something. It's not like taking someone's >> purse. It's more like taking a photo of someone's purse. > > Utter nonsense. In today's legal climate, regardless of your opinion of > the matter, it is a prosecutable offense, and it is irresponsible of you > to say otherwise. It might be hard for you to accept this, but a law that equates copying a file with stealing a purse is a very bad law. Mike From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Aug 30 17:10:15 2006 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 17:10:15 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: <1156779443.26614.269582788@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <15790.69.76.4.32.1155683813.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <44E35A51.2060009@beitsahour.net> <1155755534.7174.268536649@webmail.messagingengine.com> <44E3CF1C.6070903@visi.com> <1156173573.7318.269048548@webmail.messagingengine.com> <2c6699da0608210858r7c93b39ao56c13344f22d6f42@mail.gmail.com> <44F13BE2.40606@visi.com> <20060828152507.GA32352@mail.el-swifto.com> <1156779443.26614.269582788@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Aug 2006, Isaac Atilano wrote: > Bob's point B is actually valid. I remember reading news stories of MS > actually promoting "piracy" of their products in Asian markets in order > to get people hooked on MS products. That was Mike's Point B. I am that Mike. When I wrote that remark I was in Quito, Ecuador, where they have stores in public places where you can buy almost any popular program you can think of for about $1.50. That would include WinXP Pro, MS Office, Photoshope, Acrobat Pro, etc., etc. Same for games, CDs, DVDs and probably any other copiable item. The thing is, in a country like Ecuador, if that didn't happen, the people would not be able to afford those things and they wouldn't use them at all. This would be great for FOSS, but it isn't going to happen as long as "piracy" is widespread. Mike > ----- Original message ----- > From: "John J. Trammell" > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 10:25:07 -0500 > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... > > On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 10:07:22AM -0500, Mike Miller wrote: >> On Sun, 27 Aug 2006, Bob Hartmann wrote: >> >>> 3. Stealing from Microsoft and Adobe is wrong. >> >> (A) It isn't "stealing" because you are not taking anything away from >> them when you make a copy of something. It's not like taking >> someone's purse. It's more like taking a photo of someone's purse. > > Utter nonsense. In today's legal climate, regardless of your opinion of > the matter, it is a prosecutable offense, and it is irresponsible of you > to say otherwise. > >> (B) Microsoft and Adobe want you to do it. It is much better for them >> that you use their software without paying them than it is for you to >> use other software (GNU/Linux, The Gimp, etc.) without paying them. >> Sure, they?d rather be paid, but that is unrealistic when they charge >> $750 for a product. That means they are pricing most of us out of the >> market on purpose. > > See above. > > -- > trammell at el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA > 36F5 > Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From webmaster at mn-linux.org Wed Aug 30 17:35:39 2006 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 17:35:39 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200608302235.k7UMZd630632@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: HP Brio celeron 500 mini tower HP Brio lots of them.... no ram, might have hard drives, most don't, most have netgear 10/100 nics, celeron 500mhz cpu, intel 810 chipset must be picked up in Eden Prairie $2each. Seller Email address: jungle at hickorytech dot net http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From Larry.Pint at ntuminc.com Wed Aug 30 21:37:31 2006 From: Larry.Pint at ntuminc.com (Larry R. Pint) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 21:37:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On the other side of the coin ... /soapbox on I'm a software developer. I used to have a vertical app that I was trying to sell. It was a small marketplace and people copying my package would have made it very hard on me. I spent considerable time and effort combating people's efforts to use my package without paying for it. Another developer I know went out of business because every time he sold one copy, ten other people in the area would suddenly have his program. And this was for churches! Copying commercial software is stealing! Just because it can be easily copied, doesn't give everybody (or anybody) the right to do so. While you may not think it is "taking anything away" from them, it is depriving them of the income they should get for your usage of their product. If you want free software, stay with the FOSS packages. If you want to use commercial software, pay for it. That said, have I ever used a commercial package without purchasing it? Yes, I have. But I try to restrict it to trying software to see if it will do what I want or using it for a small one time need that doesn't justify purchasing an expensive package. (But that still doesn't make it right.) /soapbox off Larry R. Pint > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn- > linux.org] On Behalf Of Mike Miller > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 5:04 PM > To: John J. Trammell > Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... > > On Mon, 28 Aug 2006, John J. Trammell wrote: > > > On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 10:07:22AM -0500, Mike Miller wrote: > >> On Sun, 27 Aug 2006, Bob Hartmann wrote: > >> > >>> 3. Stealing from Microsoft and Adobe is wrong. > >> > >> (A) It isn't "stealing" because you are not taking anything away from > >> them when you make a copy of something. It's not like taking someone's > >> purse. It's more like taking a photo of someone's purse. > > > > Utter nonsense. In today's legal climate, regardless of your opinion of > > the matter, it is a prosecutable offense, and it is irresponsible of you > > to say otherwise. > > It might be hard for you to accept this, but a law that equates copying a > file with stealing a purse is a very bad law. > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From aristophrenic at warpmail.net Wed Aug 30 22:27:53 2006 From: aristophrenic at warpmail.net (Isaac Atilano) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 22:27:53 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1156994873.30112.269820770@webmail.messagingengine.com> Let's not forget that there is also commercial software that is FOSS. In this case copying it is not stealing. ----- Original message ----- From: "Larry R. Pint" To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 21:37:31 -0500 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... On the other side of the coin ... /soapbox on I'm a software developer. I used to have a vertical app that I was trying to sell. It was a small marketplace and people copying my package would have made it very hard on me. I spent considerable time and effort combating people's efforts to use my package without paying for it. Another developer I know went out of business because every time he sold one copy, ten other people in the area would suddenly have his program. And this was for churches! Copying commercial software is stealing! Just because it can be easily copied, doesn't give everybody (or anybody) the right to do so. While you may not think it is "taking anything away" from them, it is depriving them of the income they should get for your usage of their product. If you want free software, stay with the FOSS packages. If you want to use commercial software, pay for it. That said, have I ever used a commercial package without purchasing it? Yes, I have. But I try to restrict it to trying software to see if it will do what I want or using it for a small one time need that doesn't justify purchasing an expensive package. (But that still doesn't make it right.) /soapbox off Larry R. Pint > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn- > linux.org] On Behalf Of Mike Miller > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 5:04 PM > To: John J. Trammell > Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... > > On Mon, 28 Aug 2006, John J. Trammell wrote: > > > On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 10:07:22AM -0500, Mike Miller wrote: > >> On Sun, 27 Aug 2006, Bob Hartmann wrote: > >> > >>> 3. Stealing from Microsoft and Adobe is wrong. > >> > >> (A) It isn't "stealing" because you are not taking anything away from > >> them when you make a copy of something. It's not like taking someone's > >> purse. It's more like taking a photo of someone's purse. > > > > Utter nonsense. In today's legal climate, regardless of your opinion of > > the matter, it is a prosecutable offense, and it is irresponsible of you > > to say otherwise. > > It might be hard for you to accept this, but a law that equates copying a > file with stealing a purse is a very bad law. > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Wed Aug 30 22:47:27 2006 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 22:47:27 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: References: <1155755534.7174.268536649@webmail.messagingengine.com> <44E3CF1C.6070903@visi.com> <1156173573.7318.269048548@webmail.messagingengine.com> <2c6699da0608210858r7c93b39ao56c13344f22d6f42@mail.gmail.com> <44F13BE2.40606@visi.com> <20060828152507.GA32352@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: <20060831034727.GA17501@mail.el-swifto.com> On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 05:04:17PM -0500, Mike Miller wrote: > On Mon, 28 Aug 2006, John J. Trammell wrote: [snip] >> Utter nonsense. In today's legal climate, regardless of your opinion >> of the matter, it is a prosecutable offense, and it is irresponsible >> of you to say otherwise. Looks like I am going to have to eat those words, to some degree. :-) In Mike's original post, as I read it now, he was both (a) clarifying that copyright infringement != stealing and (b) advocating against said infringement. I have no disagreement with those statements, so I think we agree for the most part. I don't know why I got some other impression on my first reading. I still hold the opinion that copyright infringement is a really dumb thing to do. And the fact remains that in the USA, it is currently illegal. > It might be hard for you to accept this, but a law that equates > copying a file with stealing a purse is a very bad law. Not so hard for me to accept. One problem that I keep seeing is that the metaphors are inadequate--a photo of a purse doesn't let you *do* anything; it's a passive object. But an unauthorized copy of Windows XP turns a chunk of metal and plastic into a subsentient entity. -- trammell at el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota From hewhocutsdown at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 07:10:24 2006 From: hewhocutsdown at gmail.com (Jordan Peacock) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 07:10:24 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: <20060831034727.GA17501@mail.el-swifto.com> References: <44E3CF1C.6070903@visi.com> <1156173573.7318.269048548@webmail.messagingengine.com> <2c6699da0608210858r7c93b39ao56c13344f22d6f42@mail.gmail.com> <44F13BE2.40606@visi.com> <20060828152507.GA32352@mail.el-swifto.com> <20060831034727.GA17501@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: Funny little story here. As I kid, growing up in Kuwait, dvds/games/etc were very hard to come by (legal ones, that is). And they were prohibitively expensive, the prices were really jacked up. For things like movies, they were also censored. So....on every street corner shop was a cardboard box or some such holding hundreds of copied movies, games and software. When you bought a playstation, you had your choice of 50 free games with it, or 200 (with a small additional fee). I specifically asked for the legitamite copy of Windows when I bought my first computer, and was given a burned cd. When my friends and I needed anything, there was a nice antique shop down south with a coffee room (Arabic style). Up in the second floor, you could drink coffee and look at the antiques (which weren't), but underneath the benches, in a slide-out drawer were binders. Each binder was for a different type of media: DVDs, software, computer games, playstatiion games, etc. You flipped through the binders and wrote down the corresponding number on a slip of paper, and gave it back with your coffee. The fellow behind the counter made some calls, and 5 minutes later; voila! You had a bag with the appropriate discs in it. Now, I'm not advocating it necessarily. It was more of a necessity at that time; you could not watch movies without them being heavily censored without it (purchasing dvds or in theatres). Most games and software were unavailable in any other format, and the mailing system was so bad I ordered cds & shipped them to canada to pick up once a year, because I knew then I would actually get them. Today, I've replaced my copied movies with originals. But you know what? I bought them in college in australia, and they don't work on any dvd player here! At least _every_ model of dvd player in Kuwait was region-free. secondly, I've solved the software problem by going almost solely open-source. A few copied programs I have lying around for testing (MS Windows & Office), but I haven't used them in ages. And I've bought the few Windows utilities I find indispensable (Flash Renamer and dbpoweramp). And my solution for games, is that right now I don't even own a console, and have not bought a game here in the states yet. Just running a SNES emulator on Ubuntu. So there's an interesting little story, covers a few different aspects of what we deal with. -Jordan On 8/30/06, John J. Trammell wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 05:04:17PM -0500, Mike Miller wrote: > > On Mon, 28 Aug 2006, John J. Trammell wrote: > [snip] > >> Utter nonsense. In today's legal climate, regardless of your opinion > >> of the matter, it is a prosecutable offense, and it is irresponsible > >> of you to say otherwise. > > Looks like I am going to have to eat those words, to some degree. :-) > In Mike's original post, as I read it now, he was both (a) clarifying > that copyright infringement !> infringement. I have no disagreement with those statements, so I think > we agree for the most part. I don't know why I got some other > impression on my first reading. > > I still hold the opinion that copyright infringement is a really dumb > thing to do. And the fact remains that in the USA, it is currently > illegal. > > > It might be hard for you to accept this, but a law that equates > > copying a file with stealing a purse is a very bad law. > > Not so hard for me to accept. One problem that I keep seeing is that > the metaphors are inadequate--a photo of a purse doesn't let you *do* > anything; it's a passive object. But an unauthorized copy of Windows XP > turns a chunk of metal and plastic into a subsentient entity. > > -- > trammell at el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 > Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060831/3b8bf571/attachment-0001.htm From gscottwalters at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 14:34:18 2006 From: gscottwalters at gmail.com (G. Scott Walters) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 14:34:18 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Recommendations In-Reply-To: References: <44E3CF1C.6070903@visi.com> <1156173573.7318.269048548@webmail.messagingengine.com> <2c6699da0608210858r7c93b39ao56c13344f22d6f42@mail.gmail.com> <44F13BE2.40606@visi.com> <20060828152507.GA32352@mail.el-swifto.com> <20060831034727.GA17501@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: My employeer is in search of a temp agency that would be able to place a helpdesk person at our office in Vadnais Heights for a couple weeks. Does anyone have any recommendations or suggestions for a firm that can provide us some reasonably knowlegable people to troubleshoot printers, setup new PCs and answer the phone? Thanks all, Scott -- G. Scott Walters gscottwalters at gmail.com www.apt518.net From erikerik at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 15:26:32 2006 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 15:26:32 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: local source for bulk white CMR Cat5e cable? Message-ID: I need to procure 3-4k' of white CMR Cat5e in the next few days. I've called around to serveral local places, but all of them only carry the typical blue and light grey cable. Do any of you know of a good place to go locally for this sort of thing? Thanks! -Erik -- Erik Anderson http://andersonfam.org From chal.arun at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 20:58:30 2006 From: chal.arun at gmail.com (arunanchal behera) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 07:28:30 +0530 Subject: [tclug-list] require some info Message-ID: <4689d6590608311858p5f62e039ifc92ab10e2726534@mail.gmail.com> hi all i want to learn more about the mail server can u suggest any book or site for that -- arunanchal behera