From webmaster at mn-linux.org Tue Mar 1 02:48:49 2005 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Tue Mar 1 02:53:43 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200503010848.j218mnG04328@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Houses Apartments and Roomates Type of Ad: Subject: Looking for Roommate Looking for a roommate to share a 3 bedroom apartment. We are located in Mounds View close to 35W. Responsible for 1/3 rent, and 1/3 utilities monthly, must also be able to pay share of deposit. Rent will be $400 per month, utilites around $75. Electric, Phone, Cable TV, and Internet are all covered by utilities. Non-smokers only, must not be allergic to the 1 cat allowed in the apartment. Ammenities include: Onsite laundry Assigned parking space Close to 35W, 694 and Hwy 10 Only a few blocks from bus route Almost 1200 square feet of overall space We move in April 15th, looking for someone for May 1st or earlier. Seller Email address: james_masters at comcast dot net http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From kcbnac at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 02:52:58 2005 From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman) Date: Tue Mar 1 02:58:42 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Next installfest? Message-ID: <32fd453705030100527cde73bd@mail.gmail.com> It's been awhile since we had our last one (October was it?) and its that time again to start planning our next installfest, figured I'd ask around and see what we can pull together. I know Bruce had mentioned that he might be able to work something out at Toro again (which would be great - that was a wonderful room we had last time - plenty of power, bandwidth and space, and relatively central) Like usual, I'll probably bring more than enough gear and equipment, and I'll make sure to bring plenty of blank CDs and DVDs to burn whatever onto. So, who's got ideas on where we can hold it, and when? Keith Bachman From Bruce.Broecker at toro.com Tue Mar 1 08:37:00 2005 From: Bruce.Broecker at toro.com (Bruce Broecker) Date: Tue Mar 1 08:43:45 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Next installfest? Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn- > linux.org] On Behalf Of Keith Bachman > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 2:53 AM > To: TCLUG > Subject: [tclug-list] Next installfest? > > It's been awhile since we had our last one (October was it?) and its > that time again to start planning our next installfest, figured I'd > ask around and see what we can pull together. > > I know Bruce had mentioned that he might be able to work something out > at Toro again (which would be great - that was a wonderful room we had > last time - plenty of power, bandwidth and space, and relatively > central) Yeah, I guess I did. > > Like usual, I'll probably bring more than enough gear and equipment, > and I'll make sure to bring plenty of blank CDs and DVDs to burn > whatever onto. > > So, who's got ideas on where we can hold it, and when? Getting the space at Toro isn't really a problem. More importantly, I need to get spousal approval if I'm going to be gone all day on a Saturday (and geeking to boot). I won't have the heavy network equipment available this time. For those who weren't there last time, I had a brand new Cisco catalyst 4500 that I was burning in. So, let me do some checking and I'll get back to the list shortly. Bruce From jsurek at mn.rr.com Tue Mar 1 11:13:10 2005 From: jsurek at mn.rr.com (Jack Surek) Date: Tue Mar 1 11:08:47 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Uptime and power supply References: Message-ID: <002601c51e81$f4c76590$655c1b41@surekhome> Randy, I agree with the lore supplied by others that start-up stress is worse than running stress and that your PS reached its lifetime limit. As an old hardware guy its kinda tough to hear how we just accept this today, especially since I think most on the LUG list are run company servers. A well-designed supply would not fail over the life of a computer--it would be designed with parts rated at twice the voltage stress seen in worst-case operation. Unfortunately, supplies are sold dirt cheap and as such made with the cheapest parts--with ratings just good enough to operate when assembled--not over the life of the equipment. Parts like capacitors undergo quite a bit of stress on start up (in-rush current) and switcher supplies (they are all switchers) have quite a bit of stress on the diodes (particularly inverse voltage) and power transistors. These parts are bound to fail if they are chosen too close to the limits of operation based on cost. While cheap parts are probably the main issue in computer supply failures, poor assembly practices, like wave soldering ferroelectric chip capacitors such that they form microfractures, can also be blamed (entry of water vapor = plating of shorts on power-down in humid atmosphere = shorts fail to clear on power-up under low voltage=dead output). Just wondering at this point...is there are market in the server area for a more robust supply? If so how large might this be? I might want a grub stake after I finish my PhD this summer, if I decide to try my hand at small business again. The power supply market is so huge that there must already be suppliers out there with the right stuff though. Jack Surek ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Clarksean" To: "tclug" Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 3:02 PM Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Uptime and power supply > > I had to physically move my office on Saturday ... then on Sunday I moved my > server as well ... having to shut it down after 275 days of uptime *sniff* > *sniff* > > Odd issue though ... I opened the system and blew it out with a compressed > cleaner ... then ... when I went to reboot ... the system would not start > back up ... pressing the power button on occasion resulted in CPU fan > spinning a time or two ... but then nothing ... no startup. > > I found it rather odd that it ran for 275 days ... then would not restart. > I did check all the power connectors, etc. - none of that made a difference. > I then just replaced the power supply and it fired up right away. > > Thoughts ... comments on what might have caused it to die/not restart? > > System: PII 450 MHz, basic cheap case, etc. Had a Deere power supply > (nothing fancy I know) > > Randy > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rclark at lakesplus.com Tue Mar 1 11:32:19 2005 From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean) Date: Tue Mar 1 11:33:48 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Uptime and power supply In-Reply-To: <002601c51e81$f4c76590$655c1b41@surekhome> Message-ID: Jack: There are solid PC power supplies out there ... or at least in my way of thinking they exist. In this situation, I just took what I had off the shelf and used it ... realizing that the service being provided was not "mission critical." (that and I am cheap at times :-) Others on the list might be able to better address the need for good PC power supplies. One can buy cheap supplies for on the order of $20 (this was one of them) ... but I see more solid supplies for anywhere from $60 to $120. Randy p.s. Thanks for all the discussion ... hardware education is always well worth it ... I do some hardware stuff on the side ... but I typically throw out the Power Supply and replace ... never worrying what might be wrong inside (cheaper to replace) ... being a mechanical engineer means that I just get a bigger hammer when the electrical stuff doesn't work :) -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jack Surek Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 11:13 AM To: tclug Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT: Uptime and power supply Randy, I agree with the lore supplied by others that start-up stress is worse than running stress and that your PS reached its lifetime limit. As an old hardware guy its kinda tough to hear how we just accept this today, especially since I think most on the LUG list are run company servers. A well-designed supply would not fail over the life of a computer--it would be designed with parts rated at twice the voltage stress seen in worst-case operation. Unfortunately, supplies are sold dirt cheap and as such made with the cheapest parts--with ratings just good enough to operate when assembled--not over the life of the equipment. Parts like capacitors undergo quite a bit of stress on start up (in-rush current) and switcher supplies (they are all switchers) have quite a bit of stress on the diodes (particularly inverse voltage) and power transistors. These parts are bound to fail if they are chosen too close to the limits of operation based on cost. While cheap parts are probably the main issue in computer supply failures, poor assembly practices, like wave soldering ferroelectric chip capacitors such that they form microfractures, can also be blamed (entry of water vapor = plating of shorts on power-down in humid atmosphere = shorts fail to clear on power-up under low voltage=dead output). Just wondering at this point...is there are market in the server area for a more robust supply? If so how large might this be? I might want a grub stake after I finish my PhD this summer, if I decide to try my hand at small business again. The power supply market is so huge that there must already be suppliers out there with the right stuff though. Jack Surek ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Clarksean" To: "tclug" Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 3:02 PM Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Uptime and power supply > > I had to physically move my office on Saturday ... then on Sunday I moved my > server as well ... having to shut it down after 275 days of uptime *sniff* > *sniff* > > Odd issue though ... I opened the system and blew it out with a compressed > cleaner ... then ... when I went to reboot ... the system would not start > back up ... pressing the power button on occasion resulted in CPU fan > spinning a time or two ... but then nothing ... no startup. > > I found it rather odd that it ran for 275 days ... then would not restart. > I did check all the power connectors, etc. - none of that made a difference. > I then just replaced the power supply and it fired up right away. > > Thoughts ... comments on what might have caused it to die/not restart? > > System: PII 450 MHz, basic cheap case, etc. Had a Deere power supply > (nothing fancy I know) > > Randy > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list@mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wylnewland at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 15:02:29 2005 From: wylnewland at gmail.com (Wyl Newland) Date: Tue Mar 1 15:08:50 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Uptime and power supply In-Reply-To: <002601c51e81$f4c76590$655c1b41@surekhome> References: <002601c51e81$f4c76590$655c1b41@surekhome> Message-ID: <15eea732050301130214482c99@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 11:13:10 -0600, Jack Surek wrote: > well-designed supply would not fail over the life of a computer--it would be > designed with parts rated at twice the voltage stress seen in worst-case > operation. One of my machines started to reboot periodically. Long, painful, multi-day story made short. By opening box and adding up amps by voltage, from each disk drive, fan, etc., I found I had for a long time pulling 18 amps 12v on a supply rated at 16 amps 12v. A modern Antec power supply with 28 amps on 12v solved the problem for me. I decided that amps by voltage rather than watts seemed the safer way to size a power supply. If my conclusion is incorrect, please explain. From jonner.2530195 at bloglines.com Tue Mar 1 15:51:53 2005 From: jonner.2530195 at bloglines.com (jonner.2530195@bloglines.com) Date: Tue Mar 1 15:59:00 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Uptime and power supply Message-ID: <1109713913.3071351151.9732.sendItem@bloglines.com> > I decided that amps by voltage rather than watts seemed the safer way > to size a power supply. If my conclusion is incorrect, please > explain. Well, amps by voltage is exactly equivalent to watts in a DC powered device, so it's not exactly a safer way, but it's no less safe. (unless I'm missing something). Jonathon From wylnewland at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 16:35:39 2005 From: wylnewland at gmail.com (Wyl Newland) Date: Tue Mar 1 16:38:49 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Uptime and power supply In-Reply-To: <1109713913.3071351151.9732.sendItem@bloglines.com> References: <1109713913.3071351151.9732.sendItem@bloglines.com> Message-ID: <15eea73205030114352d6e668c@mail.gmail.com> On 1 Mar 2005 21:51:53 -0000, jonner.2530195@bloglines.com > Well, amps by voltage is exactly equivalent to watts in a DC powered device, > so it's not exactly a safer way, but it's no less safe. (unless I'm missing > something). The Antec TRUEPOWER 480 provides +5V 38A and +12V 28A and +3.3V 30A and -5V 0.5A and -12V 1.0A and +5VSB 2.0A The total maxoutput is 480 watts 625 = (5 * 38) + (12 * 28) + (3.3 * 30) but 625 > 480 .... trying to recollect if it was a sin() or cos() ....... of how many degrees ....... and what to to with the negative voltages .... and then ...... Tilt! ..... Tilt! My minimalist recollection of high school electronics from 1968 permitted me to conclude that amps by voltage was easier for me to understand. From cncole at earthlink.net Tue Mar 1 16:46:18 2005 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Tue Mar 1 16:48:49 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Uptime and power supply In-Reply-To: <15eea732050301130214482c99@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: A power supply may or may not be efficient power converters based on design, etc. Watts on the primary side (the 110v side) may not say much about anything on the secondary side. Making a tally of actual secondary-side demands on each voltage is necessary any time something might be close or "loaded" or "big" or "fast". Best not to get close to 80% of capacity in any case. Sometimes not good to be below 10% of rating either. Some supplies are sensitive to power line glitches and some are not. Some really crummy supplies even amplify glitches and may fry circuits for that reason. Any supply gets more sensitive as load approaches the maximum capacity. Your conclusion is a good sanity check. Chuck > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Wyl Newland > > On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 11:13:10 -0600, Jack Surek wrote: > > well-designed supply would not fail over the life of a computer--it would be > > designed with parts rated at twice the voltage stress seen in worst-case > > operation. > > One of my machines started to reboot periodically. Long, painful, > multi-day story made short. By opening box and adding up amps by > voltage, from each disk drive, fan, etc., I found I had for a long > time pulling 18 amps 12v on a supply rated at 16 amps 12v. A modern > Antec power supply with 28 amps on 12v solved the problem for me. > > I decided that amps by voltage rather than watts seemed the safer way > to size a power supply. If my conclusion is incorrect, please > explain. From jsurek at mn.rr.com Wed Mar 2 10:57:14 2005 From: jsurek at mn.rr.com (Jack Surek) Date: Wed Mar 2 10:53:56 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Uptime and power supply References: <002601c51e81$f4c76590$655c1b41@surekhome> <15eea732050301130214482c99@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001201c51f48$e3d34f70$655c1b41@surekhome> So you went from a supply that was under-rated to one that was rated to handle you power load. The original PS probably sensed load increases that exceeded rating, saw them as short circuits and shut the supply off momentarily (rebooting periodically) to avoid overheating of parts. I've never designed supplies for a living, but I think its safe to say that most come with analog sense lines which detect too much loading and shut the supply off before excessive heating occurs. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wyl Newland" To: "tclug" Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 3:02 PM Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT: Uptime and power supply > On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 11:13:10 -0600, Jack Surek wrote: > > well-designed supply would not fail over the life of a computer--it would be > > designed with parts rated at twice the voltage stress seen in worst-case > > operation. > > One of my machines started to reboot periodically. Long, painful, > multi-day story made short. By opening box and adding up amps by > voltage, from each disk drive, fan, etc., I found I had for a long > time pulling 18 amps 12v on a supply rated at 16 amps 12v. A modern > Antec power supply with 28 amps on 12v solved the problem for me. > > I decided that amps by voltage rather than watts seemed the safer way > to size a power supply. If my conclusion is incorrect, please > explain. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jsurek at mn.rr.com Wed Mar 2 11:06:42 2005 From: jsurek at mn.rr.com (Jack Surek) Date: Wed Mar 2 11:03:57 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Uptime and power supply References: <1109713913.3071351151.9732.sendItem@bloglines.com> <15eea73205030114352d6e668c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001201c51f4a$363fd0c0$655c1b41@surekhome> Total maximum power is what is allowed for the whole supply based on its ability to dissipate waste heat and the capability of the initial circuitry to handle the incoming power before its divided into each DC output. You can't run all the output lines at their maximum powers, the manufacturer just gives you the max rating of each so you can run some of them up to max, assuming the others have low enough loads so the total meets overall power rating. Phase angle only comes in on the AC side, probably not involved in the ratings you describe. If you see a VARS rating (for Volts x Amperes Reactive) this would be related to Max parameters of incoming power from the AC line. Jack ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wyl Newland" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT: Uptime and power supply > On 1 Mar 2005 21:51:53 -0000, jonner.2530195@bloglines.com > > Well, amps by voltage is exactly equivalent to watts in a DC powered device, > > so it's not exactly a safer way, but it's no less safe. (unless I'm missing > > something). > > The Antec TRUEPOWER 480 provides +5V 38A and +12V 28A and +3.3V 30A > and -5V 0.5A and -12V 1.0A and +5VSB 2.0A > > The total maxoutput is 480 watts > > 625 = (5 * 38) + (12 * 28) + (3.3 * 30) > but 625 > 480 .... trying to recollect if it was a sin() or cos() > ....... of how many degrees ....... and what to to with the negative > voltages .... and then ...... Tilt! ..... Tilt! > > My minimalist recollection of high school electronics from 1968 > permitted me to conclude that amps by voltage was easier for me to > understand. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From aintboeingaintgoing at gmail.com Wed Mar 2 11:11:36 2005 From: aintboeingaintgoing at gmail.com (Steve Swantz) Date: Wed Mar 2 11:14:00 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Home routers that work Message-ID: <17f6da250503020911741f6531@mail.gmail.com> After some intermittant, annoying problems with my home router, I decided to get get an old spare out. It's a Netgear RP614v2, flashed to the latest firmware. It has an even worse problem - 75 seconds into a 163 second nmap -sT run against a remote server I manage, it seems to lose it's ability to route TCP traffic. I can ping the outside world, but I can't ssh or http anything at all, LAN or WAN side. So... the question: What home routers do you guys use that just work? 802.11 isn't a requirement, but most seem to come with it, so that's OK (as long as I can turn it off.) I'm not interested in setting up/running another computer just to be a router at home. Anyone using he Linksys WRT54G? Thanks, Steve From jsurek at mn.rr.com Wed Mar 2 11:16:42 2005 From: jsurek at mn.rr.com (Jack Surek) Date: Wed Mar 2 11:58:57 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Uptime and power supply References: Message-ID: <001701c51f4b$9afe1c00$655c1b41@surekhome> I agree. If you have a serious machine, like a server for a business then: 1. pay attention to the power loads you add to your supply in relation to its capabilities for each line and overall power handling. 2. there can remain infant mortalities in PSs that are too cheaply made...don't trust the cheapest supply just because its power ratings are OK. 3. if your server is on a line that has spikes and dips (welding, big motors that spin up/down fast, brown outs) then you have to take care of these with a UPS rated to ride through such events, or move to a separate phase in the power distribution. Jack ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Cole" To: "tclug" Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 4:46 PM Subject: RE: [tclug-list] OT: Uptime and power supply > A power supply may or may not be efficient power converters based on design, etc. Watts on the primary side (the 110v side) may not > say much about anything on the secondary side. Making a tally of actual secondary-side demands on each voltage is necessary any > time something might be close or "loaded" or "big" or "fast". Best not to get close to 80% of capacity in any case. Sometimes not > good to be below 10% of rating either. Some supplies are sensitive to power line glitches and some are not. Some really crummy > supplies even amplify glitches and may fry circuits for that reason. Any supply gets more sensitive as load approaches the maximum > capacity. > > Your conclusion is a good sanity check. > > Chuck > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Wyl Newland > > > > On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 11:13:10 -0600, Jack Surek wrote: > > > well-designed supply would not fail over the life of a computer--it would be > > > designed with parts rated at twice the voltage stress seen in worst-case > > > operation. > > > > One of my machines started to reboot periodically. Long, painful, > > multi-day story made short. By opening box and adding up amps by > > voltage, from each disk drive, fan, etc., I found I had for a long > > time pulling 18 amps 12v on a supply rated at 16 amps 12v. A modern > > Antec power supply with 28 amps on 12v solved the problem for me. > > > > I decided that amps by voltage rather than watts seemed the safer way > > to size a power supply. If my conclusion is incorrect, please > > explain. > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cschumann at twp-llc.com Wed Mar 2 13:05:06 2005 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Wed Mar 2 13:10:45 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] RE: Home routers that work In-Reply-To: <200503021802.j22I2607025118@alpha.twp-llc.com> Message-ID: <200503021905.j22J5307025258@alpha.twp-llc.com> > Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 11:11:36 -0600 > From: Steve Swantz > Anyone using he Linksys WRT54G? Sorry. But I am using the LinkSys BEFSR41. v2, with more blinky lights than the newer versions. It's worked like a tank for a couple years. I like it so much, I bought the company.... no wait... I bought another one so I can have one machine that has incoming internet and my private home network behind another router. From john.meier at gmail.com Wed Mar 2 13:16:24 2005 From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier) Date: Wed Mar 2 13:18:56 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] RE: Home routers that work In-Reply-To: <200503021905.j22J5307025258@alpha.twp-llc.com> References: <200503021802.j22I2607025118@alpha.twp-llc.com> <200503021905.j22J5307025258@alpha.twp-llc.com> Message-ID: <65293fcc050302111647635be7@mail.gmail.com> > > Anyone using he Linksys WRT54G? > > Sorry. But I am using the LinkSys BEFSR41. v2, with more blinky lights than My BEFSR41 crapped out in 9 months.... customer support was so cruddy that I gave up trying to get it fixed/returned/etc etc.. From erikerik at gmail.com Wed Mar 2 13:44:47 2005 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Wed Mar 2 13:48:57 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Home routers that work In-Reply-To: <17f6da250503020911741f6531@mail.gmail.com> References: <17f6da250503020911741f6531@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 11:11:36 -0600, Steve Swantz wrote: > What home routers do you guys use that just work? 802.11 isn't a > requirement, but most seem to come with it, so that's OK (as long as I > can turn it off.) I'm not interested in setting up/running another > computer just to be a router at home. I'm running an SMC 2804WBRP-G. http://tinyurl.com/5fsap The thing has been rock-solid for six months now. It's a bit more expensive than most router/access points, which is mainly due to the higher-power radio in the access point side. From SDALAN04 at smumn.edu Wed Mar 2 14:23:30 2005 From: SDALAN04 at smumn.edu (David Alanis) Date: Wed Mar 2 14:29:00 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Bind security question? Message-ID: <20050302202330670145701d@mail.smumn.edu> Can someone please elaborate on what the consequences maybe to have these settings in place? 2.6 Tightening Permissions First of all, feel free to restrict access to the whole /chroot directory to the root user. Of course, not everybody may want to do this, especially if you have other software installed in that tree that doesn't appreciate it. # chown root /chroot # chmod 700 /chroot You can also safely restrict access to /chroot/named to the named user. # chown named:named /chroot/named # chmod 700 /chroot/named For even more tightening, on Linux systems we can make a few of the files and directories immutable, using the chattr tool on ext2 filesystems. # cd /chroot/named # chattr +i etc etc/localtime var I guess my questions is why would I restrict access to named...if this is what resides in chroot..? Dave A project is a problem scheduled for a solution. J.M. Juran : "Cuanta estupidez en tan poco cerebro!" From ntraxler at usfamily.net Wed Mar 2 17:04:33 2005 From: ntraxler at usfamily.net (Nick Traxler) Date: Wed Mar 2 17:09:02 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Cable modems: Roadrunner or Earthlink? Message-ID: <42264681.5030202@usfamily.net> So, I'm using 256kbit DSL through Qworst and I really feel a need for speed - does anyone with cable modem have a preference between Road Runner or Earthlink? I think they're both 3Mbit down. (They didn't say what the upload is - anyone know offhand?) I'm in Uptown MPLS, so thankfully I don't have to endure Comcast. Along with the faster net access, I'll be dropping my home phone, so Huzzah! Soon I get to celebrate my liberation from Qwest and their crappy-ass web payment page. (Stupid thing always thinks I typed the wrong password.) Also, does the service give you a public IP? I don't care if it's static or dynamic, as long as I can access it from outside. Finally, can you use your own cable modem with the service? I prefer a standalone bridging modem so I can use my choice of router/access point. Thanks for the tips, Nick --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From john.meier at gmail.com Wed Mar 2 17:21:59 2005 From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier) Date: Wed Mar 2 17:28:59 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Cable modems: Roadrunner or Earthlink? In-Reply-To: <42264681.5030202@usfamily.net> References: <42264681.5030202@usfamily.net> Message-ID: <65293fcc05030215213939caa4@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 17:04:33 -0600, Nick Traxler wrote: > So, I'm using 256kbit DSL through Qworst and I really feel a need for > speed - does anyone with cable modem have a preference between Road > Runner or Earthlink? I think they're both 3Mbit down. (They didn't say RR is 5 Mbit down now... > Also, does the service give you a public IP? I don't care if it's static > or dynamic, as long as I can access it from outside. > Dynamic on RR > Finally, can you use your own cable modem with the service? dont know - the serivce came with a Cable modem From sfertch at gmail.com Wed Mar 2 18:23:25 2005 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Wed Mar 2 18:28:58 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Cable modems: Roadrunner or Earthlink? In-Reply-To: <42264681.5030202@usfamily.net> References: <42264681.5030202@usfamily.net> Message-ID: <67f3084a05030216231401efb3@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 17:04:33 -0600, Nick Traxler wrote: > So, I'm using 256kbit DSL through Qworst and I really feel a need for > speed - does anyone with cable modem have a preference between Road > Runner or Earthlink? I think they're both 3Mbit down. (They didn't say > what the upload is - anyone know offhand?) I'm in Uptown MPLS, so > thankfully I don't have to endure Comcast. > What's wrong with Qwest? I've been using their services for well over 13 years, and have had very few problems. Probably no more than two or three that I can recall. Service calls from them has been quick (underground phone line went bad). In regards to your other questions: Cable uploads is I think 384. But, before you switch to cable, why not consider what your usage is going to be in regards to hosting. Do your needs fit within their user agreements? Then again, you probably don't want to know anything about the $9.99/mo high speed DSL service with Qwest.... -- -Shawn -Nemo me impune lacessit. Ne Obliviscaris.. From natecars at real-time.com Wed Mar 2 19:27:32 2005 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Wed Mar 2 19:33:59 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Cable modems: Roadrunner or Earthlink? In-Reply-To: <42264681.5030202@usfamily.net> References: <42264681.5030202@usfamily.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Mar 2005, Nick Traxler wrote: > So, I'm using 256kbit DSL through Qworst and I really feel a need for > speed - does anyone with cable modem have a preference between Road > Runner or Earthlink? I think they're both 3Mbit down. (They didn't say > what the upload is - anyone know offhand?) I'm in Uptown MPLS, so > thankfully I don't have to endure Comcast. Earthlink resells RR cable if you are in a RR area. The actual cable connection is identical (5mbit down, 384k up). The differences are that with Earthlink you get free Earthlink dialup access instead of RR dialup access, and you get an @earthlink.net e-mail address instead of @mn.rr.com (of you want their addresses.) My advice is to go with whichever has the best current promotion. I switch between Earthlink and RR every 12 months or so to get the current deals (it's considered an ISP switch, even though your actual connection doesn't change.) They do charge a $25 ISP change fee, but when you consider that most of the promos knock at least $15/mo off, that's not a bad deal. :) If you're the type that collects Northwest frequent flyer miles, you can get a 5,000-10,000 mile bonus with Earthlink, plus the current X/mo off deal usually (have to call and ask them to combine the offers.) > Also, does the service give you a public IP? I don't care if it's static > or dynamic, as long as I can access it from outside. Yeah, both RR and Earthlink give you a public, dynamic IP. With RR, it'll be an ip with reverse dns in the 'mn.rr.com' domain; with Earthlink, it'll be in the 'mindspring.com' domain. > Finally, can you use your own cable modem with the service? I prefer a > standalone bridging modem so I can use my choice of router/access point. No - the cable modem they provide is a simple bridge, though. The device behind it gets a static IP. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From ntraxler at usfamily.net Wed Mar 2 20:13:47 2005 From: ntraxler at usfamily.net (Nick Traxler) Date: Wed Mar 2 20:17:09 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Cable modems: Roadrunner or Earthlink? In-Reply-To: <67f3084a05030216231401efb3@mail.gmail.com> References: <42264681.5030202@usfamily.net> <67f3084a05030216231401efb3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <422672DB.7080709@usfamily.net> Ah, Qwest - pull up a chair, and let me tell a story.... Their service usually works, but whenever anything goes wrong, they always screw up the fix. Example: When I first got my home phone, it had charges on it for a "qwest communication" service and MSN dsl that I didn't order. MSN took their charge off and fixed the bill right away, but it took 6 months for Qwest to get theirs off - every month, I'd get the bill, call them, have it adjusted off for that month, then they'd tell me it would be fixed, only to have it show up the next month. It's the same thing at work; we called them when our voicemail stopped working. It took them a week to get the box working again, but who knows how many tenant calls we missed during evenings and weekends while they were futzing around. And, every time we call because something's broken, they lay on the sales pitch to try to sell us more crap - even though we're calling because the crap they already sold us isn't working. Anyway, Qwest does have standalone ("naked") DSL, but it's $35/month. I'd rather get the faster cable access, and I'm not thrilled with the modem/router they give you. Thanks for the tips, though. Nick Shawn Fertch wrote: > What's wrong with Qwest? I've been using their services for well over > 13 years, and have had very few problems. Probably no more than two > or three that I can recall. Service calls from them has been quick > (underground phone line went bad). > > In regards to your other questions: > > Cable uploads is I think 384. But, before you switch to cable, why > not consider what your usage is going to be in regards to hosting. Do > your needs fit within their user agreements? > > Then again, you probably don't want to know anything about the > $9.99/mo high speed DSL service with Qwest.... --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From smac at visi.com Thu Mar 3 00:58:33 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Thu Mar 3 01:04:02 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Cable modems: Roadrunner or Earthlink? In-Reply-To: <42264681.5030202@usfamily.net> References: <42264681.5030202@usfamily.net> Message-ID: <4226B599.8060306@visi.com> If you have DSL through Qwest you can switch to 1.5 down and 1 up for free. Unless you have the long rang DSL then I don't know. I switched last fall, Visi didn't charge me either ;-) Sam. Nick Traxler wrote: > So, I'm using 256kbit DSL through Qworst and I really feel a need for > speed - does anyone with cable modem have a preference between Road > Runner or Earthlink? I think they're both 3Mbit down. (They didn't say > what the upload is - anyone know offhand?) I'm in Uptown MPLS, so > thankfully I don't have to endure Comcast. > > Along with the faster net access, I'll be dropping my home phone, so > Huzzah! Soon I get to celebrate my liberation from Qwest and their > crappy-ass web payment page. (Stupid thing always thinks I typed the > wrong password.) > > Also, does the service give you a public IP? I don't care if it's > static or dynamic, as long as I can access it from outside. > > Finally, can you use your own cable modem with the service? I prefer a > standalone bridging modem so I can use my choice of router/access point. > > Thanks for the tips, > Nick > > > > --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- > http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.5.7 - Release Date: 3/1/2005 From seg at haxxed.com Wed Mar 2 15:22:41 2005 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Thu Mar 3 03:24:02 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Home routers that work In-Reply-To: <17f6da250503020911741f6531@mail.gmail.com> References: <17f6da250503020911741f6531@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1109798561.21145.30.camel@bigtime> I'm running a Belkin F5D7230-4 that was $20 after $50 rebate. Same chipset as a WRT54G, however it only has 2mb flash which is a bit cramped compared to the 4mb or 8mb that WRT54G's have. Seeing as no one else had released working custom firmware, and Sveasoft had even explicitly sworn off belkin, I set about creating my own firmware. I've basically rewritten and recompiled the firmware from scratch, based on pristine and Linksys source code. There's no Belkin left in it. Its actually running a kernel for a WRT54GS, so it might be compatible with "SpeedBooster", but I have nothing to test that with. And the funny thing is, after I started talking about it on the SeattleWireless Wiki, Sveasoft's statement of no support for Belkin has mysteriously disappeared, and now they're beta testing firmware. http://www.seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/Belkin_20F5D7230_2d4 Anyone want to beta test? I really ought to get this out the door soon... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050302/114c169b/attachment.pgp From cschumann at twp-llc.com Thu Mar 3 08:26:08 2005 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Thu Mar 3 08:29:05 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Sendmail and sasl? Message-ID: <200503031426.j23EQ407029042@alpha.twp-llc.com> Hey folks, I've got cyrus-imapd running just fine. My issue is with Sendmail. Since we're using RHEL 3, it's sendmail 8.12.whatever and won't use the sasldb2 file for authentication. We don't want to have login accounts for the e-mail users, so unix and shadow authentication are out. I would like sendmail 8.12.whatever to use either sasldb or sasldb2. Tips on getting that done would be awesome. We can't upgrade to RHEL 4 for a while because of production web applications that have to be analyzed for porting. We can't upgrade sendmail because we want RHN to update that for us. We don't want to use postfix or exim. If I tell sendmail to use sasl, it appears to do nothing, as it's logging authentication somewhere I don't know about. If I make it use pam, pam-unix gets used, using the normal user database. If I can get sendmail to use pam with sasl, that would be awesome. Tips or pointers on how to do that appreciated as well. Many thanks, Chris Schumann From mjn at umn.edu Thu Mar 3 19:39:04 2005 From: mjn at umn.edu (mjn) Date: Thu Mar 3 20:15:29 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Postfix question... Message-ID: I believe the terminology is different between sendmail and postfix and maybe that is why I am confused. With Sendmail I was able to use the masquerade_as flag and specify a A or or MX record that Sendmail would disguise all outgoing mail as. So, say my host is linux.domain.org and I have a mailhost at mail.domain.org, I was able to set masquerade_as('mail.domain.org') on linux.domain.org and all mail going out would appear to come from mail.domain.org rather than linux.domain.org. Is this possible with postfix? I know that I can make linux.domain.org look like domain.org using masquerade_domains but can I make it look like a different host? On a related note, anyone out there got any tricks for automatically dealing with large *map tables in postfix? Say I've got another mail server running LDAP and I want postfix to handle delivery and rejection for all mail in the domain, can I do something clever like query the ldap server to generate the map file for postfix? Seems like it should work but i am curious if anyone else is doing this sort of thing... Oh yea, reply offlist please. Thanks! -- _______________________________________________ Mike Neuharth ADCS Technology Specialist http://www.umn.edu/adcs =============================================== E-Mail : mjn@umn.edu Agenda : http://tinyurl.com/3jc2v _______________________________________________ "What is important, it seems to me, is not so much to defend a culture whose existence has never kept a man from going hungry, as to extract, from what is called culture, ideas whose compelling force is identical with that of hunger." -Antonin Artaud From trammell at el-swifto.com Fri Mar 4 13:37:25 2005 From: trammell at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Fri Mar 4 14:06:38 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Postfix question... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050304193725.GA4143@mail.el-swifto.com> On Thu, Mar 03, 2005 at 07:39:04PM -0600, mjn wrote: [snip] > Oh yea, reply offlist please. Thanks! Please don't--others like myself are interested in this discussion. From gsker at comcast.net Fri Mar 4 14:41:34 2005 From: gsker at comcast.net (Gerry) Date: Fri Mar 4 14:44:18 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Sendmail config for fax server Message-ID: Can anyone guide me in setting up a sendmail rule or configuration that sends numeric addresses like phone numbers to a particular user or process? I would like to have sendmail accept mail from a copier and route it to the fax send process if and only if the userid looks like a fax number. e.g. 6121231234@faxserver.company.com It must be built off of the regexp map like this but I don't understand what to put in the last line to actually get it to deliver to someone else. #LOCAL_CONFIG Kallnumbers regex -a@MATCH ^[0-9]+$ LOCAL_RULESETS SLocal_check_mail # check address against\ various regex checks R$* $: $>Parse0 $>3 $1 R$+ < @ bigisp.com. >48 $: $(allnumbers $1 $) R@MATCH $#error $:553 Header Error But even if I figure that out, what am I supposed to put in an mc file (as opposed to the cf file) ? I'm running Redhat 9 and sendmail-8.12. Displaying my ignorance, Gerry -- Gerry Skerbitz gsker@comcast.net From aintboeingaintgoing at gmail.com Fri Mar 4 15:51:09 2005 From: aintboeingaintgoing at gmail.com (Steve Swantz) Date: Fri Mar 4 15:54:18 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Imap internals Message-ID: <17f6da2505030413515b21d0a6@mail.gmail.com> I have a Postfix/Courier-imap/MySQL/SpamAssassin mail server with all email accounts virtual - no unix accounts. I'd like to have our users train SpamAssassin by moving any spam that makes it in to a 'learn_spam' subfolder in their imap directory, then running a cron job that takes mail it finds in the 'learn_spam' (and in a 'learn_ham') directory, runs it through sa-learn, then deletes it. I don't know enough about imap's bookeeping to know if deleting a file from a subdirectory is a fair way to get rid of it, or if it will screw up any sort of index, etc that imapd or the imap client keeps. Anybody doing anything like this? From webmaster at mn-linux.org Fri Mar 4 15:51:36 2005 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Fri Mar 4 16:01:03 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200503042151.j24Lpak27053@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: Cisco 2501 Routers I have 3 Cisco 2501 routers for sale. They each have 1 AUI interface and 2 serial interfaces. Each router has 2 megs of memory and 8 megs of flash memory. 1 unit has IOS Version 11.0(10c) 1 unit has IOS Version 11.1.(6) 1 unit has IOS Version 12.0(9) Each router comes with an external AdTran CSU/DSU, 1 Cisco DTE cable (csu to router), 1 AUI 10 Base T Ethernet Transceiver, 1 console cable, and power cables. $50 each. Jim Streit 952-897-7791 jimstreit@welshco.com Seller Email address: jimstreit at northlans dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From josh at joshwelch.com Fri Mar 4 16:03:22 2005 From: josh at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch) Date: Fri Mar 4 16:09:18 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Sendmail config for fax server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4228DB2A.4040009@joshwelch.com> Gerry wrote: > Can anyone guide me in setting up a sendmail rule or configuration that > sends numeric addresses like phone numbers to a particular user or process? > > I would like to have sendmail accept mail from a copier and route it to > the fax send process if and only if the userid looks like a fax number. > e.g. 6121231234@faxserver.company.com > > It must be built off of the regexp map like this but I don't understand > what to put in the last line to actually get it to deliver to someone else. > > #LOCAL_CONFIG > Kallnumbers regex -a@MATCH ^[0-9]+$ > LOCAL_RULESETS > SLocal_check_mail # check address against\ > various regex checks > R$* $: $>Parse0 $>3 $1 > R$+ < @ bigisp.com. >48 $: $(allnumbers $1 $) > R@MATCH $#error $:553 Header Error > > > But even if I figure that out, what am I supposed to put in an mc file > (as opposed to the cf file) ? > > I'm running Redhat 9 and sendmail-8.12. > > Displaying my ignorance, > Gerry > Hylafax has a component called faxmail that you can use for this type of setup. You would actually send the mail to $RECIPIENT@$FAXNUMBER.FAX, i.e. josh@18005551212.fax. You would then add a config line to Sendmail to let it know what to do to things going to the fax domain. There is a write up on the Hylafax website. http://www.hylafax.org/howto/clients/sendmail-faxmail-mangling.html Josh From Bruce.Broecker at toro.com Fri Mar 4 16:07:06 2005 From: Bruce.Broecker at toro.com (Bruce Broecker) Date: Fri Mar 4 16:09:21 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Imap internals Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > I have a Postfix/Courier-imap/MySQL/SpamAssassin mail server with all > email accounts virtual - no unix accounts. I'd like to have our users > train SpamAssassin by moving any spam that makes it in to a > 'learn_spam' subfolder in their imap directory, then running a cron > job that takes mail it finds in the 'learn_spam' (and in a > 'learn_ham') directory, runs it through sa-learn, then deletes it. > > I don't know enough about imap's bookeeping to know if deleting a file > from a subdirectory is a fair way to get rid of it, or if it will > screw up any sort of index, etc that imapd or the imap client keeps. Because you are using courier-imap, I'm going to assume that you are using Maildirs and not mbox format. If that's the case, then you should be able to safely delete the file representing the message. That's one of the advantages of Maildir. Bruce From gsker at comcast.net Fri Mar 4 23:23:05 2005 From: gsker at comcast.net (Gerry) Date: Fri Mar 4 23:39:23 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Sendmail config for fax server In-Reply-To: <4228DB2A.4040009@joshwelch.com> References: <4228DB2A.4040009@joshwelch.com> Message-ID: Josh, All well and good, but definitely not what I asked about. Anyone know how to do what I asked for? I need to be able to mail to 6121231234@faxserver.company.com The phone number can't (and shouldn't anyway) be in the hostname. On Fri, 4 Mar 2005, Josh Welch wrote: > Gerry wrote: >> Can anyone guide me in setting up a sendmail rule or configuration that >> sends numeric addresses like phone numbers to a particular user or process? >> >> I would like to have sendmail accept mail from a copier and route it to the >> fax send process if and only if the userid looks like a fax number. >> e.g. 6121231234@faxserver.company.com >> >> It must be built off of the regexp map like this but I don't understand >> what to put in the last line to actually get it to deliver to someone else. >> >> #LOCAL_CONFIG >> Kallnumbers regex -a@MATCH ^[0-9]+$ >> LOCAL_RULESETS >> SLocal_check_mail # check address against\ >> various regex checks >> R$* $: $>Parse0 $>3 $1 >> R$+ < @ bigisp.com. >48 $: $(allnumbers $1 $) >> R@MATCH $#error $:553 Header Error >> >> >> But even if I figure that out, what am I supposed to put in an mc file (as >> opposed to the cf file) ? >> >> I'm running Redhat 9 and sendmail-8.12. >> >> Displaying my ignorance, >> Gerry >> > > Hylafax has a component called faxmail that you can use for this type of > setup. You would actually send the mail to $RECIPIENT@$FAXNUMBER.FAX, i.e. > josh@18005551212.fax. You would then add a config line to Sendmail to let it > know what to do to things going to the fax domain. There is a write up on the > Hylafax website. > http://www.hylafax.org/howto/clients/sendmail-faxmail-mangling.html > > Josh -- Gerry Skerbitz gsker@comcast.net From waynej at dccmn.com Sat Mar 5 15:34:01 2005 From: waynej at dccmn.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Sat Mar 5 15:39:28 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] AMD64 Mobo for Fedora Core Message-ID: Anyone have any suggestions for an AMD64 Motherboard for Fedora Core 3? Which chip set is best? Sata or ATA? Anyone have an opinion (duh, dumb question). From natecars at real-time.com Sat Mar 5 22:12:16 2005 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Sat Mar 5 22:14:31 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Sendmail config for fax server In-Reply-To: References: <4228DB2A.4040009@joshwelch.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Mar 2005, Gerry wrote: > Anyone know how to do what I asked for? I need to be able to mail to > 6121231234@faxserver.company.com > > The phone number can't (and shouldn't anyway) be in the hostname. You could certainly do something with Mimedefang (ties into sendmail via Milter) to do that. It lets you do just about anything you want; filter language is Perl. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From webmaster at mn-linux.org Sun Mar 6 14:53:30 2005 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Sun Mar 6 14:59:40 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200503062053.j26KrUY17545@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: ibm pc ibm model 6892-n4u p3 500, 192mb, 12gb hdd, cd, sound, nic, etc. $50 or b.o. Seller Email address: intothefloodagain at gmail dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From kfuchs at winternet.com Sun Mar 6 15:59:19 2005 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Sun Mar 6 16:04:40 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] AMD64 Mobo for Fedora Core In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200503062159.j26LxJT02931@ecstasy1.winternet.com> Wayne Johnson wrote: >Anyone have any suggestions for an AMD64 Motherboard for Fedora Core 3? >Which chip set is best? Sata or ATA? Anyone have an opinion (duh, dumb >question). I'm assuming a generic meaning of AMD64 that includes Opterons. I personally think that single processor MBs are waste of time, unless one needs something really cheap or doesn't really need the power of a SMP system. Best Opteron MB: Tyan S2895 http://www.tyan.com/products/html/thunderk8we.html Best board that has almost everything you could want (except SAS, but not many mainboards include it yet): http://www.tyan.com/products/html/thunderk8we_spec.html There may be LinuxBIOS replacement available supported by Tyan very soon. Check the mainboards supported page of http://wiki.linuxbios.org/ in the Tyan section near the bottom of the page or contact Tyan if interested. ------ Best chipset: nVidia nForce (TM) Professional 2200 (CK8-04) aka nForce4 However, I'm not sure I like the direction nVidia is going in regards to binary Linux storage/RAID drivers plus an initrd rather than open source. ------ Sincerely, Ken Fuchs From wylnewland at gmail.com Sun Mar 6 17:46:14 2005 From: wylnewland at gmail.com (Wyl Newland) Date: Sun Mar 6 17:49:41 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Cable modems: Roadrunner or Earthlink? In-Reply-To: <422672DB.7080709@usfamily.net> References: <42264681.5030202@usfamily.net> <67f3084a05030216231401efb3@mail.gmail.com> <422672DB.7080709@usfamily.net> Message-ID: <15eea73205030615465faa368c@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 20:13:47 -0600, Nick Traxler wrote: > Ah, Qwest - pull up a chair, and let me tell a story.... > Anyway, Qwest does have standalone ("naked") DSL, but it's $35/month. > I'd rather get the faster cable access, and I'm not thrilled with the > modem/router they give you. Thanks for the tips, though. I must have Qwest DSL specifically so that I can retain my static IP addresses. Do/can cable companies "bridge" me to my own ISP (Winternet)? Alternatively, do/can cable companies rent me a static IP address sub-network. From drue at therub.org Sun Mar 6 19:36:16 2005 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Sun Mar 6 19:42:55 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Cable modems: Roadrunner or Earthlink? In-Reply-To: <15eea73205030615465faa368c@mail.gmail.com> References: <42264681.5030202@usfamily.net> <67f3084a05030216231401efb3@mail.gmail.com> <422672DB.7080709@usfamily.net> <15eea73205030615465faa368c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050307013616.GC27434@therub.org> On Sun, Mar 06, 2005 at 05:46:14PM -0600, Wyl Newland wrote: > I must have Qwest DSL specifically so that I can retain my static IP > addresses. Do/can cable companies "bridge" me to my own ISP > (Winternet)? Alternatively, do/can cable companies rent me a static > IP address sub-network. When you have cable internet, you can not choose your own isp. To get a static or a subnet with comcast or roadrunner, you need to upgrade to business class service, which, iirc, bumps it to $99/mo or better. DSL is better because there is competition between the ISPs - though speeds are still set by qwest as far as I understand it. The ISP's seem to mearly support whichever speeds the phone companies set, but I could be wrong on that point. Dan From josh at joshwelch.com Mon Mar 7 07:32:20 2005 From: josh at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch) Date: Mon Mar 7 07:34:46 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Cable modems: Roadrunner or Earthlink? In-Reply-To: <20050307013616.GC27434@therub.org> References: <42264681.5030202@usfamily.net> <67f3084a05030216231401efb3@mail.gmail.com> <422672DB.7080709@usfamily.net> <15eea73205030615465faa368c@mail.gmail.com> <20050307013616.GC27434@therub.org> Message-ID: <20050307073220.bb20bo8wsz0o0wws@moose.joshwelch.com> Quoting Dan Rue : > On Sun, Mar 06, 2005 at 05:46:14PM -0600, Wyl Newland wrote: >> I must have Qwest DSL specifically so that I can retain my static IP >> addresses. Do/can cable companies "bridge" me to my own ISP >> (Winternet)? Alternatively, do/can cable companies rent me a static >> IP address sub-network. > > When you have cable internet, you can not choose your own isp. Sorry, but I have to pick this nit. Using Time Warner cable you can currently choose either RoadRunner or Earthlink as your ISP. I believe that Comcast is not offering people the option of an alternative ISP. From smac at visi.com Mon Mar 7 07:38:50 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Mar 7 07:44:46 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Cable modems: Roadrunner or Earthlink? In-Reply-To: <20050307013616.GC27434@therub.org> References: <42264681.5030202@usfamily.net> <67f3084a05030216231401efb3@mail.gmail.com> <422672DB.7080709@usfamily.net> <15eea73205030615465faa368c@mail.gmail.com> <20050307013616.GC27434@therub.org> Message-ID: <422C596A.6020502@visi.com> Dan you hit it on the head, I didn't know how much business class cable was (WOW)! I pay about $55 a month for Qwest and ISP with 2 IP addresses. I pay yearly so I get a small break on the monthly that covers the second IP address ;-) DSL requires 1 IP for the modem and 1 IP for the router if you want to host a website, email, etc.. I do port forwarding so I could and have done a lot of tricky port stuff. DSL is now 1.5 down and 1 up, I know cable is faster 5 down but the up is slower then 1. If you have a website as I do the 1 up is real nice, I host a bunch of pictures for a friend and a Scout Troop. It took me several hours to down load the 4 FC3 32bit ISO's wasn't a big deal. I got about 165kbs so I was limited by the other end of the pipe not my end. I guess it's all a mater of how much speed we really _need_, I have 2 kids 10 and 13. I can still play CoDUO while they surf and play music. Yes I kick butt ;) Sam. Dan Rue wrote: >On Sun, Mar 06, 2005 at 05:46:14PM -0600, Wyl Newland wrote: > > >>I must have Qwest DSL specifically so that I can retain my static IP >>addresses. Do/can cable companies "bridge" me to my own ISP >>(Winternet)? Alternatively, do/can cable companies rent me a static >>IP address sub-network. >> >> > >When you have cable internet, you can not choose your own isp. > >To get a static or a subnet with comcast or roadrunner, you need to >upgrade to business class service, which, iirc, bumps it to $99/mo or >better. > >DSL is better because there is competition between the ISPs - though >speeds are still set by qwest as far as I understand it. The ISP's seem >to mearly support whichever speeds the phone companies set, but I could >be wrong on that point. > >Dan > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.2 - Release Date: 3/4/2005 From adam at whee.org Mon Mar 7 08:09:51 2005 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Mar 7 08:29:46 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Sendmail config for fax server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Mar 2005, Gerry wrote: > It must be built off of the regexp map like this but I don't understand what > to put in the last line to actually get it to deliver to someone else. > > #LOCAL_CONFIG > Kallnumbers regex -a@MATCH ^[0-9]+$ > LOCAL_RULESETS > SLocal_check_mail # check address against\ > various regex checks > R$* $: $>Parse0 $>3 $1 > R$+ < @ bigisp.com. >48 $: $(allnumbers $1 $) > R@MATCH $#error $:553 Header Error Looks like at this point after it matches the regexp, you need to re-write the hostname to be @faxserver.bigisp.com and then return a mailer definition... But it might be easier to modify your regexp match so that it has to match both 10-digits in the address part AND not already be @faxserver.bigisp.com ( ^[0-9]+@bigisp.com$ ), and then just return the new address so Sendmail will then handle it "normally". This is probably easier and safer than returning a mailer directly. Matching both criteria is essential so you don't form a loop. I may be able to offer more help off-list if you need it. > But even if I figure that out, what am I supposed to put in an mc file (as > opposed to the cf file) ? Take a look at the sendmail/cf directory. There's a README that explains this. You basically need to create an m4 file in feature/ or hack/ maybe call it faxhack.m4. Look at the other files in these 2 directories to see how to do it. Then you'd just call it in your mc file: FEATURE(`faxhack')dnl > > I'm running Redhat 9 and sendmail-8.12. > > Displaying my ignorance, No! Few mortals can look at a sendmail.cf without turning to stone. But you, dear adventurer, have joined an elite club. Eric Allman will be over shortly to show you the secret handshake. From adam at whee.org Mon Mar 7 08:43:14 2005 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Mar 7 08:59:46 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Cable modems: Roadrunner or Earthlink? In-Reply-To: <20050307073220.bb20bo8wsz0o0wws@moose.joshwelch.com> References: <42264681.5030202@usfamily.net> <67f3084a05030216231401efb3@mail.gmail.com> <422672DB.7080709@usfamily.net> <15eea73205030615465faa368c@mail.gmail.com> <20050307013616.GC27434@therub.org> <20050307073220.bb20bo8wsz0o0wws@moose.joshwelch.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Mar 2005, Josh Welch wrote: >> When you have cable internet, you can not choose your own isp. > > Sorry, but I have to pick this nit. Using Time Warner cable you can currently > choose either RoadRunner or Earthlink as your ISP. I believe that Comcast is > not offering people the option of an alternative ISP. I'm curious what the difference is...is it just a branding/added service thing, or are you actually being routed directly onto Earthlink's network (rather than RR's) after you hit the cable facility. And if so, what is that connection. For instance, when you choose "MSN" as your ISP with Qwest DSL, you are using Qwest's IP backbone. There is no hand-off to MSN (IIRC). The only difference is cosmetic (like e-mail). Just as when you buy an MSN dial-up, you are using (mostly) UU.net dial-up numbers, and are routed to the internet over UU's network. Even so...ala South Park, it always comes down to choosing between a tvnag qbhpur naq n gheq fnaqjuvpu. But to answer some of the questions from this thread... Choosing your own ISP with Qwest DSL means you're actually connected to that ISP's network. Your DSL connection is routed over Qwest's ATM to your ISP, and your ISP provides transit to the Internet. Qwest just pushes ATM cells back and forth - your ISP provides authentication and IP's. The speed that the DSL modems connect at is controlled by Qwest - that is your speed through Qwest's ATM network. As long as your ISP has sufficient pipe into Qwest's ATM, you will always get that connect speed between you and your ISP. The per-MBit charge for the ISP's ATM connection into Qwest is almost insignificant (after you're already paying for the loop that is), and I would imagine that most local ISP's have more than enough pipe in that regard. There is real benefit in being able to choose your own, local ISP. But this is a right that's in jeopardy, currently in other states but coming soon to Minnesota. I fear for the future when my choices for a residential-class high-speed service are Qwest or Comcast (aka Dumb and Dumber). "Even so...ala South Park, it always comes down to choosing between a tvnag qbhpur naq n gheq fnaqjuvpu." From natecars at real-time.com Mon Mar 7 09:09:23 2005 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Mar 7 09:12:10 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Cable modems: Roadrunner or Earthlink? In-Reply-To: References: <42264681.5030202@usfamily.net> <67f3084a05030216231401efb3@mail.gmail.com> <422672DB.7080709@usfamily.net> <15eea73205030615465faa368c@mail.gmail.com> <20050307013616.GC27434@therub.org> <20050307073220.bb20bo8wsz0o0wws@moose.joshwelch.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Mar 2005, Adam Maloney wrote: > I'm curious what the difference is...is it just a branding/added service > thing, or are you actually being routed directly onto Earthlink's > network (rather than RR's) after you hit the cable facility. And if so, > what is that connection. It's still RoadRunner service - you're just on a different IP block within roadrunner with reverse DNS of "mindspring.com" instead of "mn.rr.com". -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From rclark at lakesplus.com Mon Mar 7 09:06:41 2005 From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean) Date: Mon Mar 7 09:14:03 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Mediawiki on internal machine - access issues Message-ID: I am working on a project where I want to use mediawiki for documenting the project. There are a number of people across the country that will have access to the pages and need to modify documents as the work progresses (LaTex capabilities needed). Setup: I have the software installed on a machine behind my firewall (iptables on RH7.2 box). I redirect a port on the firewall to the internal machine. The redirect works fine as it works for accessing dotProject on the same box. The machine is a Suse9 install ... just because I had it available and ready to use. All of the dotProject pages come up fine on machines internal to the network and external to the firewall. I installed mediawiki and initially could not view it on the internal IP address machines. I then went to the actual monitor on the system and the pages opened ... indicating to me I had some sort of redirection error. So .. on the advice of some mediawiki types I turned off UseCanonical within my httpd.conf file. Great ... now all of the machines internal to the firewall (192.168.1.*) machines can pop up the page and view it ... but ... the people external to the firewall can still not view the pages. the httpd log files really show nothing. The access_log shows the requests for the pages, but the error_log makes no mention of any error associated with the request. Thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I need to put this to rest. Randy Clarksean, Ph.D., P.E. 106 N. Boardman Ave (physical address) P.O. Box N (postal address) New York Mills, MN 56567 phone: (218) 385-3750 fax: (218) 385-3751 email: rclark@lakesplus.com From drue at therub.org Mon Mar 7 09:39:05 2005 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Mar 7 09:44:46 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Cable modems: Roadrunner or Earthlink? In-Reply-To: <422C596A.6020502@visi.com> References: <42264681.5030202@usfamily.net> <67f3084a05030216231401efb3@mail.gmail.com> <422672DB.7080709@usfamily.net> <15eea73205030615465faa368c@mail.gmail.com> <20050307013616.GC27434@therub.org> <422C596A.6020502@visi.com> Message-ID: <20050307153905.GF27434@therub.org> On Mon, Mar 07, 2005 at 07:38:50AM -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > Dan you hit it on the head, I didn't know how much business class > cable was (WOW)! I pay about $55 a month for Qwest and ISP with 2 IP > addresses. I pay yearly so I get a small break on the monthly that > covers the second IP address ;-) DSL requires 1 IP for the modem and 1 > IP for the router if you want to host a website, email, etc.. I do > port forwarding so I could and have done a lot of tricky port stuff. > There is actually a way around that IP problem. Basically, you set up an internal network between your router and modem. You set your public IP on your router. The thing is, your ISP is going to throw all the packets for your IP at your modem regardless which IP address your modem has. So all you have to do is set a route in your modem (this probably requires a cisco modem) for your public IP to your router over the internal network. Here: Internet -> Modem (192.168.0.1) -> Router (public IP, aliased 192.168.0.2 - this might also require a real router :) ) Then on the modem add a route for your public IP to 192.168.0.2. I posted my cisco 678 config to do just that here: http://therub.org/wiki/index.php/DSL Dan From bellsoffreedom at animail.net Mon Mar 7 10:40:33 2005 From: bellsoffreedom at animail.net (Nick) Date: Mon Mar 7 10:32:58 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] I Am All That Is MAN!! Message-ID: Hey all, It's Nick, the guy with the PSCP Issue. Just wanted to give a big THANK YOU to all of you for all your advice. With the gracious onsite help of one of your fellow LUG associates I got it fixed! (THANK YOU again, Joseph!!) It was terrible! Both computers had to be completely taken apart, then put back together, both OS's reinstalled and everything reconfigured . . . Okay. I'm lying. It was a simple firewall setting I hadn't found . . . . Anyway, women are now chasing me down the street, screaming my name, begging to bear my children! Nick ?Take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim.? ~ Elie Wiesel View my blog & artwork! *********************** http://artandprose.blogspot.com/ http://www.Care2.com Free e-mail. 100MB storage. Helps charities. Make a Difference: Tell car makers to clean up their act - http://www.care2.com/go/z/cleancars From strayf at freeshell.org Mon Mar 7 11:12:10 2005 From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steven Cayford) Date: Mon Mar 7 11:14:47 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] I Am All That Is MAN!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050307171210.GA31177@crito> On Mon, Mar 07, 2005 at 10:40:33AM -0600, Nick wrote: > It's Nick, the guy with the PSCP Issue. Just wanted to give a big > THANK YOU to all of you for all your advice. With the gracious > onsite help of one of your fellow LUG associates I got it fixed! > (THANK YOU again, Joseph!!) Congrats for being persistent and figuring it out. -Steve From smac at visi.com Mon Mar 7 11:18:56 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Mar 7 11:24:47 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] I Am All That Is MAN!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <422C8D00.2010001@visi.com> LOLROF, I thought the same thing when I fixed something in a computer, I didn't notice the rope and clubs until it was almost to late! :-D Sam. Nick wrote: >Hey all, > >It's Nick, the guy with the PSCP Issue. Just wanted to give a big >THANK YOU to all of you for all your advice. With the gracious >onsite help of one of your fellow LUG associates I got it fixed! >(THANK YOU again, Joseph!!) > >It was terrible! Both computers had to be completely taken apart, >then put back together, both OS's reinstalled and everything >reconfigured . . . >Okay. I'm lying. It was a simple firewall setting I hadn't >found . . . . > >Anyway, women are now chasing me down the street, screaming my name, >begging to bear my children! > >Nick > > > >?Take sides. Neutrality helps the >oppressor, never the victim.? >~ Elie Wiesel > >View my blog & artwork! >*********************** >http://artandprose.blogspot.com/ >http://www.Care2.com Free e-mail. 100MB storage. Helps charities. > >Make a Difference: Tell car makers to clean up their act - http://www.care2.com/go/z/cleancars > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.2 - Release Date: 3/4/2005 From seg at haxxed.com Mon Mar 7 11:48:50 2005 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Mar 7 11:54:47 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] AMD64 Mobo for Fedora Core In-Reply-To: <200503062159.j26LxJT02931@ecstasy1.winternet.com> References: <200503062159.j26LxJT02931@ecstasy1.winternet.com> Message-ID: <1110217730.2385.5.camel@bigtime> > I'm assuming a generic meaning of AMD64 that includes Opterons. > I personally think that single processor MBs are waste of time, unless > one needs something really cheap or doesn't really need the power of a > SMP system. Ehhh, SMP isn't a great way to get performance for most loads. Unless you're doing a lot of highly CPU bound, and threadable processing, you're better off putting your money into getting a faster single CPU than two slower ones. This means most desktop systems. But then I haven't checked prices lately. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050307/20b662ee/attachment.pgp From rwh at visi.com Mon Mar 7 13:10:47 2005 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Mon Mar 7 13:07:32 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] AMD64 Mobo for Fedora Core In-Reply-To: <1110217730.2385.5.camel@bigtime> References: <200503062159.j26LxJT02931@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <1110217730.2385.5.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: <422CA737.3040206@visi.com> I'll take a slower 2-processor system over a faster single CPU any day. Having two processors lets you maintain a reasonably responsive system even if you're running something CPU intensive. Plus a lot of what we take as normal everyday processing is becoming very CPU intensive, like ripping CDs, digital image processing, video editing, etc. So even if you run Gimp as a single thread rather than Photoshop with multiple threads you still get a benefit from the second processor. --rick Callum Lerwick wrote: >>I'm assuming a generic meaning of AMD64 that includes Opterons. >>I personally think that single processor MBs are waste of time, unless >>one needs something really cheap or doesn't really need the power of a >>SMP system. >> >> > >Ehhh, SMP isn't a great way to get performance for most loads. Unless >you're doing a lot of highly CPU bound, and threadable processing, >you're better off putting your money into getting a faster single CPU >than two slower ones. This means most desktop systems. > >But then I haven't checked prices lately. > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From bear at umn.edu Mon Mar 7 09:50:16 2005 From: bear at umn.edu (William Bear) Date: Mon Mar 7 14:00:25 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] AMD64 Mobo for Fedora Core In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <422C7838.4010403@umn.edu> Skipped content of type multipart/mixed-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3150 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050307/b5557fcc/smime.bin From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Mon Mar 7 15:26:05 2005 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Mar 7 15:28:55 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Auto-logout in slackware 10 Message-ID: <20050307152605.000073d8@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> This seems so simple, but I cannot figure out what is controlling the automagic logout from an SSH session to a new Slackware 10 box. I don't have this problem in any other distros except for my two slackware boxes. Seems to automatically log me out after 30 minutes of inactivity. The accounts don't have a .login or .cshrc and I've grepped /etc for "auto" and "logout" without finding anything interesting. Any Slackers out there know what's causing this? Thanks, Josh From slushpupie at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 11:39:56 2005 From: slushpupie at gmail.com (slushpupie@gmail.com) Date: Tue Mar 8 11:42:59 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Re: Postfix question... In-Reply-To: <20050304193725.GA4143@mail.el-swifto.com> References: <20050304193725.GA4143@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: sure, try something like this: masquerade_classes=envelope_sender,envelope_recipient,header_sender,header_recipient masquerade_domains = host.$mydomain As far as LDAP with postfix, yes you can do that. I do that currently (most distros with postfix should have some sort of postfix-ldap package). Beware though, every lookup will generate an ldap query. You may want to use the proxy tables to limit the number of queries generated a little. Something like this: alias_maps = ldap:/etc/postfix/aliases.cf local_recipient_maps = proxy:ldap:/etc/postfix/local.cf virtual_maps = proxy:ldap:/etc/postfix/virtual.cf If you have a schema for mail in ldap already, it should be easy to set up. The hardest part for me is almost always coming up with a good schema to use. Jay -- Jay Kline http://www.slushpupie.com/ From wylnewland at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 12:13:51 2005 From: wylnewland at gmail.com (Wyl Newland) Date: Tue Mar 8 12:18:59 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Re: Postfix question... In-Reply-To: References: <20050304193725.GA4143@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: <15eea73205030810137f4c0841@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 11:39:56 -0600, slushpupie@gmail.com wrote: > Beware though, every lookup will generate an ldap query. Because mail accounts change infrequently, why not generate postfix (non-LDAP) validation tables from LDAP. This could certainly be done by a cron job. Perhaps on-the-fly updates to postfix tables can be done whenever the LDAP database records (under LDAP's mail schema) are modified. I have long wondered about this but have not researched the matter. I hope that you may know the truth and would briefly explain. Thank you. From slushpupie at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 12:32:16 2005 From: slushpupie at gmail.com (slushpupie@gmail.com) Date: Tue Mar 8 12:35:00 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Re: Postfix question... In-Reply-To: <15eea73205030810137f4c0841@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050304193725.GA4143@mail.el-swifto.com> <15eea73205030810137f4c0841@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 12:13:51 -0600, Wyl Newland wrote: > On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 11:39:56 -0600, slushpupie@gmail.com > wrote: > > Beware though, every lookup will generate an ldap query. > > Because mail accounts change infrequently, why not generate postfix > (non-LDAP) validation tables from LDAP. This could certainly be done > by a cron job. Perhaps on-the-fly updates to postfix tables can be > done whenever the LDAP database records (under LDAP's mail schema) are > modified. Postfix is in want of a lookup table or a list (depends on the entry). It was made generic enough to support a plugin-like interface to allow people to do what they want. To postfix, ldap is the same as mysql, postgresql, or whatever (well, mostly) In the case of ldap, I expect the ldap database to be as correct as it can be all the time. So of course I want the mail server to see the same data. So I created an ldap slave on the mail server that only the mail server uses. Since all updates to the ldap master get replicated, no one else will notice the extra load. Sure, it could be possible write a perl script that dumps the data out of ldap into a hash and run it from a cron job. It just leaves the possibility of the data being out of sync at some point. Jay -- Jay Kline http://www.slushpupie.com/ From aintboeingaintgoing at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 20:16:16 2005 From: aintboeingaintgoing at gmail.com (Steve Swantz) Date: Tue Mar 8 20:19:04 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] How to tell if a program is run by cron Message-ID: <17f6da25050308181671d9284b@mail.gmail.com> I'm sure this will be easy for someone, but I'm not finding it now... I have a perl program that normally runs by cron, but occasionally manually. I want to handle the output differently depending on how it is run. Yes, I could add a flag to the arguments, but I seem to remember there being a more fundamental way to determine at runtime. Anyone know? Thanks, Steve From jwreese0 at comcast.net Tue Mar 8 20:38:44 2005 From: jwreese0 at comcast.net (John Reese) Date: Tue Mar 8 20:47:05 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Portability of private server-side SSH keys? Message-ID: <422E61B4.8020106@comcast.net> My company will replace a server running RH 7.2 with a box running RH 9. Hundreds of clients connect to the old box using SSH v. 1. The new box will have the same name and the same IP address, and will host SSH v. 1 sessions with the same clients. We have done as much as we can to make it look like the old server, but if we allow it to run SSHd on its locally-generated private keys the clients will not connect, claiming it is a man-in-the-middle attack. For the client, it is only a matter of changing the known_hosts entry referencing this server and allowing each client to rebuild the key. However, I am not in a position to modify hundreds of computers in several remote locations. Is there any way to move the private keys from the old server to the new server, so the clients accept the connection without modification? Simply moving the keys as-is does not work -- I have tried it. (I also made sure permissions and ownership were correct and checked md5sums.) Any advice appreciated. John Reese jwreese0@comcast.net From scotjenkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 22:31:43 2005 From: scotjenkins at gmail.com (Scot Jenkins) Date: Tue Mar 8 22:35:06 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] How to tell if a program is run by cron In-Reply-To: <17f6da25050308181671d9284b@mail.gmail.com> References: <17f6da25050308181671d9284b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: You could call the same program using different names, one name when run from cron, anothe r when run interactively. Put a test in the program to check which name is was invoked as and take action accordingly. Here's a snippet: #!/usr/bin/perl if ( $0 eq "xx" ) { print "program called from cron\n"; } else { print "program run manually\n"; } Call the program as "xx" from the crontab entry. "xx" can be a symlink to the real program name. Scot On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 20:16:16 -0600, Steve Swantz wrote: > I'm sure this will be easy for someone, but I'm not finding it now... > > I have a perl program that normally runs by cron, but occasionally > manually. I want to handle the output differently depending on how it > is run. Yes, I could add a flag to the arguments, but I seem to > remember there being a more fundamental way to determine at runtime. > Anyone know? > > Thanks, > Steve From esper at sherohman.org Tue Mar 8 23:42:57 2005 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Tue Mar 8 23:47:06 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] How to tell if a program is run by cron In-Reply-To: <17f6da25050308181671d9284b@mail.gmail.com> References: <17f6da25050308181671d9284b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050309054257.GF24790@sherohman.org> On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 08:16:16PM -0600, Steve Swantz wrote: > I'm sure this will be easy for someone, but I'm not finding it now... > > I have a perl program that normally runs by cron, but occasionally > manually. I want to handle the output differently depending on how it > is run. Yes, I could add a flag to the arguments, but I seem to > remember there being a more fundamental way to determine at runtime. > Anyone know? Let me make your question more general... "How to tell if a program is running interactively". I'm not aware of any simple way to test specifically whether you're running under cron[1], but, if you're running from cron, the program will be non-interactive and if you're running manually from a shell, it will be interactive. So: sub running_interactively { return -t STDIN && -t STDOUT; } and then: if (running_interactively()) { # behave in a console-appropriate manner } else { # do stuff like you would when run from cron } [1] I suppose you could recursively check your parent PID and use ps or similar to look up that process to see if it's cron, but a) I wasn't able to quickly find a way to determine PPID, b) even if I could, it probably wouldn't work for ancestors beyond your direct parent, and c) I doubt that it would be worth the trouble in any case. -- The freedoms that we enjoy presently are the most important victories of the White Hats over the past several millennia, and it is vitally important that we don't give them up now, only because we are frightened. - Eolake Stobblehouse (http://stobblehouse.com/text/battle.html) From florin at iucha.net Wed Mar 9 00:33:54 2005 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Wed Mar 9 00:37:07 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] How to tell if a program is run by cron In-Reply-To: <17f6da25050308181671d9284b@mail.gmail.com> References: <17f6da25050308181671d9284b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050309063354.GB27377@iucha.net> On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 08:16:16PM -0600, Steve Swantz wrote: > I'm sure this will be easy for someone, but I'm not finding it now... > > I have a perl program that normally runs by cron, but occasionally > manually. I want to handle the output differently depending on how it > is run. Yes, I could add a flag to the arguments, but I seem to > remember there being a more fundamental way to determine at runtime. > Anyone know? man 3 isatty From perl, you can use the -t test. Depending what you need, you can test STDIN or STDOUT. ---cut here---cut here---cut here---cut here #!/usr/bin/perl -w use strict; if (-t STDOUT) { print STDERR "interactive\n"; } else { print STDERR "non-interactive\n"; } exit 0; ---cut here---cut here---cut here---cut here Cheers, florin -- Don't question authority: they don't know either! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050309/2c648c4a/attachment.pgp From twakefield at stcloudstate.edu Wed Mar 9 08:10:23 2005 From: twakefield at stcloudstate.edu (Wakefield, Thad M.) Date: Wed Mar 9 08:13:12 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] How to tell if a program is run by cron Message-ID: <4F752E686C8E04449DCB9FA7C3BD96747A6CB9@EXCHANGE.campus.stcloudstate.edu> > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Steve Swantz > Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 8:16 PM > To: TC-LUG Mailing List > Subject: [tclug-list] How to tell if a program is run by cron > > I'm sure this will be easy for someone, but I'm not finding it now... > > I have a perl program that normally runs by cron, but occasionally > manually. I want to handle the output differently depending on how it > is run. Yes, I could add a flag to the arguments, but I seem to > remember there being a more fundamental way to determine at runtime. > Anyone know? > > Thanks, > > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > Here's three articles from http://www.itworld.com/nl/unix_insider/ that cover this topic: http://www.itworld.com/nl/unix_insider/12092004/ http://www.itworld.com/nl/unix_insider/01132005/ http://www.itworld.com/nl/unix_insider/01202005/ Thad From jima at beer.tclug.org Wed Mar 9 08:46:50 2005 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Wed Mar 9 08:51:13 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Portability of private server-side SSH keys? In-Reply-To: <422E61B4.8020106@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Mar 2005, John Reese wrote: > For the client, it is only a matter of changing the known_hosts entry > referencing this server and allowing each client to rebuild the key. > However, I am not in a position to modify hundreds of computers in > several remote locations. Is there any way to move the private keys from > the old server to the new server, so the clients accept the connection > without modification? Simply moving the keys as-is does not work -- I > have tried it. (I also made sure permissions and ownership were correct > and checked md5sums.) Copying /etc/ssh/ssh_host_* didn't work? Did you restart sshd? (Not sure if it's required, but I've done that numerous times, without a problem.) Not sure what else it could be. Unless the 7.2 box had the keys in some non-standard/intuitive location. Jima From christophermsmith at gmail.com Wed Mar 9 09:20:46 2005 From: christophermsmith at gmail.com (Chris Smith) Date: Wed Mar 9 09:23:13 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions Message-ID: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> samba = you say it like you do the dance right? Not SAM-ba Like SOM-ba.. cron = like the old cron? or like chronological? I've been saying Samba like the dance for years... Chris From there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com Wed Mar 9 09:18:59 2005 From: there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com (Loren H. Burlingame) Date: Wed Mar 9 09:23:18 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Portability of private server-side SSH keys? In-Reply-To: References: <422E61B4.8020106@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 08:46:50 -0600 (CST), Jima wrote: > Copying /etc/ssh/ssh_host_* didn't work? Did you restart sshd? (Not > sure if it's required, but I've done that numerous times, without a > problem.) > Not sure what else it could be. Unless the 7.2 box had the keys in some > non-standard/intuitive location. > I am going to second the "id-should-just-work" notion. I have done this same thing myself. There is nothing special about the keys, you should be able to just move them to a new server. There is something else afoot here. -- Loren H. Burlingame GPG Key ID: 0x112DCF4F "Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes." -William Shatner (a.k.a. Buck Murdock) From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Wed Mar 9 09:42:23 2005 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Wed Mar 9 09:45:13 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 09:20:46 -0600, Chris Smith wrote: > samba = you say it like you do the dance right? Not SAM-ba Like SOM-ba.. > cron = like the old cron? or like chronological? I pronounce: samba, like the dance cron like chronological gnome, like the mythical figure, not genome, like genetics gnu, like the animal, not guh-new But that's just me... From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Wed Mar 9 09:43:58 2005 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Wed Mar 9 09:48:33 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Portability of private server-side SSH keys? In-Reply-To: References: <422E61B4.8020106@comcast.net> Message-ID: <914f813c050309074320005a97@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 09:18:59 -0600, Loren H. Burlingame wrote: > > There is something else afoot here. Perhaps different file formats from one version to the other? (I"m not an SSH expert...) From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Mar 9 09:48:13 2005 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Wed Mar 9 09:51:13 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] How to tell if a program is run by cron Message-ID: >>> "Wakefield, Thad M." 03/09/05 8:10 AM >>> > Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 8:16 PM > I'm sure this will be easy for someone, but I'm not finding it now... > I have a perl program that normally runs by cron, but occasionally > manually. I want to handle the output differently depending on how it > is run. Yes, I could add a flag to the arguments, but I seem to > remember there being a more fundamental way to determine at runtime. > Anyone know? I include this for kicks (because you're in perl, use perl to test it), but I made a small C program some time ago to test this from shell scripts: ------------------------- // isbg.c // isbg // Troy Johnson // 19990629 // A program for reporting if the current process is running in // the foreground, background, or without a controlling terminal. // 1 == back, 0 == fore, -1 == no ctty #include #include #include #include #include main() { int fd; // File descriptor. int p_stat = 0; // Process status flag. pid_t my_pgid; // My process group id. pid_t f_pgid; // Foreground process group id. if ((fd = open("/dev/tty", O_RDONLY)) >= 0) { my_pgid = getpgrp(); f_pgid = tcgetpgrp(fd); close(fd); if (my_pgid == f_pgid) { // If foreground process, set return value to 0. p_stat = 0; } else { // If background process, set return value to 1. p_stat = 1; } } else { // If no controlling tty, set return value to -1. p_stat = -1; } // Return value to user. printf("%d\n", p_stat); exit(0); } ------------------------- Have a good one, Troy From smac at visi.com Wed Mar 9 09:55:05 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Wed Mar 9 09:57:13 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <422F1C59.1040503@visi.com> Samba like the chacha cron like chronic But I would never go with... Sam. Chris Smith wrote: >samba = you say it like you do the dance right? Not SAM-ba Like SOM-ba.. >cron = like the old cron? or like chronological? > >I've been saying Samba like the dance for years... > >Chris > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.0 - Release Date: 3/8/2005 From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Mar 9 10:20:09 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed Mar 9 10:23:14 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, John T. Hoffoss wrote: > On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 09:20:46 -0600, Chris Smith > wrote: >> samba = you say it like you do the dance right? Not SAM-ba Like SOM-ba.. >> cron = like the old cron? or like chronological? > > I pronounce: > > samba, like the dance > > cron like chronological So far, so good. > gnome, like the mythical figure, not genome, like genetics > > gnu, like the animal, not guh-new Not quite (right about genome though). Here's a trick for finding out what people are saying about pronunciation: http://www.google.com/search?q=gnu+pronounced And you can see that everyone says that we should pronounce the hard 'g' in GNU: guh-noo (with a very short 'uh'). Authoritative source: http://www.gnu.org/ The same pronunciation rule should apply to 'gnome': http://www.google.com/search?q=gnome+pronounced Apparently, Stallman advocated for pronouncing the hard 'g' and it has stuck. Mike -- Michael B. Miller, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Division of Epidemiology and Community Health and Institute of Human Genetics University of Minnesota http://taxa.epi.umn.edu/~mbmiller/ From christophermsmith at gmail.com Wed Mar 9 10:30:28 2005 From: christophermsmith at gmail.com (Chris Smith) Date: Wed Mar 9 10:35:15 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5bab831e05030908304a3cceb6@mail.gmail.com> the Guh-Nome part i was pretty sure about, though that is helpful. I remember reading about it in some Linux mag. Stallman basically said anything starting with gnu should be GUH-NU-whatever. hard to do though, espcially around casual linux users... they look at you funny, and you feel compelled to explain, and then you end up looking like a bit of jerk.. (at least i seem to...) Oh, and Suse,,, that one is like Dr. Suess, not Suzy.... since we are expanding the list. C On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 10:20:09 -0600 (CST), Mike Miller wrote: > On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, John T. Hoffoss wrote: > > > On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 09:20:46 -0600, Chris Smith > > wrote: > >> samba = you say it like you do the dance right? Not SAM-ba Like SOM-ba.. > >> cron = like the old cron? or like chronological? > > > > I pronounce: > > > > samba, like the dance > > > > cron like chronological > > So far, so good. > > > > gnome, like the mythical figure, not genome, like genetics > > > > gnu, like the animal, not guh-new > > Not quite (right about genome though). Here's a trick for finding out > what people are saying about pronunciation: > > http://www.google.com/search?q=gnu+pronounced > > And you can see that everyone says that we should pronounce the hard 'g' > in GNU: guh-noo (with a very short 'uh'). Authoritative source: > > http://www.gnu.org/ > > The same pronunciation rule should apply to 'gnome': > > http://www.google.com/search?q=gnome+pronounced > > Apparently, Stallman advocated for pronouncing the hard 'g' and it has > stuck. > > Mike > > -- > Michael B. Miller, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Division of Epidemiology and Community Health > and Institute of Human Genetics > University of Minnesota > http://taxa.epi.umn.edu/~mbmiller/ > From drue at therub.org Wed Mar 9 10:49:39 2005 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Wed Mar 9 10:53:15 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <5bab831e05030908304a3cceb6@mail.gmail.com> References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> <5bab831e05030908304a3cceb6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050309164939.GD59780@therub.org> On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 10:30:28AM -0600, Chris Smith wrote: > the Guh-Nome part i was pretty sure about, though that is helpful. > > I remember reading about it in some Linux mag. Stallman basically said > anything starting with gnu should be GUH-NU-whatever. > hard to do though, espcially around casual linux users... they look at > you funny, and you feel compelled to explain, and then you end up > looking like a bit of jerk.. (at least i seem to...) > > Oh, and Suse,,, that one is like Dr. Suess, not Suzy.... since we are > expanding the list. I personally think that in the spirit of open source and there's-more-than-one-way-to-do-it, pronunciation should be an open sport. Nobody cares what Stallman says, anyway (ain't no way i'm saying Guh-Nome). dan From Bruce.Broecker at toro.com Wed Mar 9 10:53:08 2005 From: Bruce.Broecker at toro.com (Bruce Broecker) Date: Wed Mar 9 10:57:14 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > > > Oh, and Suse,,, that one is like Dr. Suess, not Suzy.... since we are > expanding the list. Really? I have always used conventional german pronunciation, which means the e on the end would be an uh sound. So, it would be SueZuh. Bruce From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Mar 9 11:19:21 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed Mar 9 11:23:14 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Bruce Broecker wrote: >> Oh, and Suse,,, that one is like Dr. Suess, not Suzy.... since we are >> expanding the list. > > Really? I have always used conventional german pronunciation, which > means the e on the end would be an uh sound. So, it would be SueZuh. You are correct: http://www.google.com/search?q=suse+pronounced Mike From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Mar 9 11:22:18 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed Mar 9 11:27:14 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <20050309164939.GD59780@therub.org> References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> <5bab831e05030908304a3cceb6@mail.gmail.com> <20050309164939.GD59780@therub.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Dan Rue wrote: > I personally think that in the spirit of open source and > there's-more-than-one-way-to-do-it, pronunciation should be an open > sport. Nobody cares what Stallman says, anyway (ain't no way i'm saying > Guh-Nome). Go for it. I am more conventional about pronunciation because I think consistency facilitates communication. I actually do care what Stallman says about the pronunciations of words he makes up like "POSIX". When a student asks me how a word is pronounced, I like to give him/her an answer instead of saying "however you like." Mike From adam at whee.org Wed Mar 9 11:14:13 2005 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Wed Mar 9 11:31:14 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Bruce Broecker wrote: >> >> Oh, and Suse,,, that one is like Dr. Suess, not Suzy.... since we are >> expanding the list. > > Really? I have always used conventional german pronunciation, which > means the e on the end would be an uh sound. So, it would be SueZuh. suh-lack-ware. Easy peasy. Let's do a usability test: Non-obvious Users get mad if Pronounciation you say it wrong Rhymes with ---------------------------------------------------------------- SuSe [X] [X] Loos-ah Gentoo [X] [X] Poo, Sniff-glue Ubuntu [X] [X] Count Duku Debian [X] [X]* Schmebian Redhat [ ] N/A Dead Rat Slackware [ ] N/A Smack! Ware *Tests have shown that Deeeeebian users get really mad, to the point of threatening physical violence. At installfests this typically results in a big slap-and-bite-fest. Obviously Redhat and Slackware are clear winners in the pronounciation area. But Redhat ends up losing because it rhymes with expired rodents. So Slackware wins again! Is there nothing this great distro can't do? From jima at beer.tclug.org Wed Mar 9 11:38:28 2005 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Wed Mar 9 11:41:14 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Adam Maloney wrote: > Obviously Redhat and Slackware are clear winners in the pronounciation > area. But Redhat ends up losing because it rhymes with expired rodents. > So Slackware wins again! Is there nothing this great distro can't do? Save you from the flamewar you've just started? ;) Jima From strayf at freeshell.org Wed Mar 9 12:03:19 2005 From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steven Cayford) Date: Wed Mar 9 12:07:16 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050309180316.GA8164@callisto-acss.acad.umn.edu> On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 11:38:28AM -0600, Jima wrote: > On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Adam Maloney wrote: > > Obviously Redhat and Slackware are clear winners in the pronounciation > > area. But Redhat ends up losing because it rhymes with expired rodents. > > So Slackware wins again! Is there nothing this great distro can't do? > > Save you from the flamewar you've just started? ;) I was wondering why the second column (annoyed users) was listed N/A for Redhat and Slackware. Couldn't find any users who would admit to using these? :) -Steve From sfertch at gmail.com Wed Mar 9 12:28:36 2005 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Wed Mar 9 12:31:15 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Portability of private server-side SSH keys? In-Reply-To: <422E61B4.8020106@comcast.net> References: <422E61B4.8020106@comcast.net> Message-ID: <67f3084a050309102841092b3a@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 20:38:44 -0600, John Reese wrote: > My company will replace a server running RH 7.2 with a box running RH 9. > Hundreds of clients connect to the old box using SSH v. 1. The new box > will have the same name and the same IP address, and will host SSH v. 1 > sessions with the same clients. We have done as much as we can to make > it look like the old server, but if we allow it to run SSHd on its > locally-generated private keys the clients will not connect, claiming it > is a man-in-the-middle attack. Out of curiosity, why continue to use SSH1? It has a well-known exploit. Continuing on in the security mindset, why re-use the key pair if you don't have access to all of the systems? Especially when you don't control, or have access to them. To me, by forcing a key pair change, you are securing the system further. You are able to review the systems that connect, and determine which ones need access and which ones don't. Yes, it's more overhead, but it's a clean up process rather than "carrying forward" crap that may not need to be there. -- -Shawn -Nemo me impune lacessit. Ne Obliviscaris.. From esper at sherohman.org Wed Mar 9 12:28:19 2005 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Wed Mar 9 12:31:19 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050309182819.GA31310@sherohman.org> On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 10:20:09AM -0600, Mike Miller wrote: > And you can see that everyone says that we should pronounce the hard 'g' > in GNU: guh-noo (with a very short 'uh'). "No guh-news is good guh-news with Gary Guh-noo!" (Maybe that's why the "guh-noo" pronunciation never threw me...) > Apparently, Stallman advocated for pronouncing the hard 'g' and it has > stuck. Then again, Stallman's advocated for "Linux" starting with an invisible (but decidedly not silent...) "GNU", but that doesn't seem to have caught on. (Thankfully.) -- The freedoms that we enjoy presently are the most important victories of the White Hats over the past several millennia, and it is vitally important that we don't give them up now, only because we are frightened. - Eolake Stobblehouse (http://stobblehouse.com/text/battle.html) From esper at sherohman.org Wed Mar 9 12:29:35 2005 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Wed Mar 9 12:33:15 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050309182935.GB31310@sherohman.org> On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 11:14:13AM -0600, Adam Maloney wrote: > *Tests have shown that Deeeeebian users get really mad, to the point of > threatening physical violence. At installfests this typically results in > a big slap-and-bite-fest. Damn... Sounds like I've been missing all the good installfests... -- The freedoms that we enjoy presently are the most important victories of the White Hats over the past several millennia, and it is vitally important that we don't give them up now, only because we are frightened. - Eolake Stobblehouse (http://stobblehouse.com/text/battle.html) From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Mar 9 12:46:35 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed Mar 9 12:49:16 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <20050309182819.GA31310@sherohman.org> References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> <20050309182819.GA31310@sherohman.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Dave Sherohman wrote: > Then again, Stallman's advocated for "Linux" starting with an invisible > (but decidedly not silent...) "GNU", but that doesn't seem to have > caught on. (Thankfully.) It doesn't predominate, but I've heard it fairly often. Linux would not have existed if it weren't for GNU and the GPL. I can understand why Stallman feels a bit ripped off when he started the ball rolling and Torvalds is getting most of the attention. Torvald's contribution looks a lot smaller to me than Stallman's. Mike From smac at visi.com Wed Mar 9 13:02:03 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Wed Mar 9 13:05:15 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> <20050309182819.GA31310@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <422F482B.8070407@visi.com> How do you pronounce SSH ??? Sam Mike Miller wrote: > On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Dave Sherohman wrote: > >> Then again, Stallman's advocated for "Linux" starting with an >> invisible (but decidedly not silent...) "GNU", but that doesn't seem >> to have caught on. (Thankfully.) > > > It doesn't predominate, but I've heard it fairly often. > > Linux would not have existed if it weren't for GNU and the GPL. I can > understand why Stallman feels a bit ripped off when he started the > ball rolling and Torvalds is getting most of the attention. Torvald's > contribution looks a lot smaller to me than Stallman's. > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.0 - Release Date: 3/8/2005 From christophermsmith at gmail.com Wed Mar 9 13:00:39 2005 From: christophermsmith at gmail.com (Chris Smith) Date: Wed Mar 9 13:08:26 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5bab831e05030911001b52c877@mail.gmail.com> Ack. I heard the SooS pronuncation from I think "geeks in space" mp3 downloads years back.. but that was wrong? Okay.. Suzah it is... Chris On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 11:19:21 -0600 (CST), Mike Miller wrote: > On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Bruce Broecker wrote: > > >> Oh, and Suse,,, that one is like Dr. Suess, not Suzy.... since we are > >> expanding the list. > > > > Really? I have always used conventional german pronunciation, which > > means the e on the end would be an uh sound. So, it would be SueZuh. > > You are correct: > > http://www.google.com/search?q=suse+pronounced > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From esper at sherohman.org Wed Mar 9 13:19:12 2005 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Wed Mar 9 13:23:19 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <422F482B.8070407@visi.com> References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> <20050309182819.GA31310@sherohman.org> <422F482B.8070407@visi.com> Message-ID: <20050309191912.GC31310@sherohman.org> On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 01:02:03PM -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > How do you pronounce SSH ??? We may as well go for the big ones... How do you pronounce "vi"? -- The freedoms that we enjoy presently are the most important victories of the White Hats over the past several millennia, and it is vitally important that we don't give them up now, only because we are frightened. - Eolake Stobblehouse (http://stobblehouse.com/text/battle.html) From dave at math.umn.edu Wed Mar 9 13:26:04 2005 From: dave at math.umn.edu (Dave Carlson) Date: Wed Mar 9 13:29:17 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200503091326.06739.dave@math.umn.edu> On Wednesday 09 March 2005 11:14 am, Adam Maloney wrote: > Let's do a usability test: > > Non-obvious Users get mad if > Pronounciation you say it wrong Rhymes with > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > SuSe [X] [X] Loos-ah > Gentoo [X] [X] Poo, Sniff-glue > Ubuntu [X] [X] Count Duku > Debian [X] [X]* Schmebian > Redhat [ ] N/A Dead Rat > Slackware [ ] N/A Smack! Ware Fedora Core [ ] [ ]** Gomorrah Whore > *Tests have shown that Deeeeebian users get really mad, to the point of > threatening physical violence. At installfests this typically results in > a big slap-and-bite-fest. ** too busy groking bugzilla entries > Obviously Redhat and Slackware are clear winners in the pronounciation > area. But Redhat ends up losing because it rhymes with expired rodents. > So Slackware wins again! Is there nothing this great distro can't do? Package management? *runs into panic room* -- -dave Dave Carlson Systems Administrator School of Mathematics, University of Minnesota http://www.math.umn.edu PGP/GPG Fingerprint: C3D0 9962 1E98 B742 132D 0E1A CE11 7C4B 5309 97A7 (visit http://www.gnupg.org for more information) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050309/be81712c/attachment-0001.pgp From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Wed Mar 9 13:33:59 2005 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Wed Mar 9 13:37:17 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <20050309191912.GC31310@sherohman.org> References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> <20050309182819.GA31310@sherohman.org> <422F482B.8070407@visi.com> <20050309191912.GC31310@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20050309133359.A198@baker.space.umn.edu> On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 01:19:12PM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: > On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 01:02:03PM -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > How do you pronounce SSH ??? > > We may as well go for the big ones... How do you pronounce > "vi"? My pronunciations are usually bad, since I often used programs for years before I ever vocalized their names, but here some are anyway. ssh - "ess ess aitch" (spell it out) vi - "vee eye" or "vie" Linux - "LIE nucks", though I am starting to say "lih nucks" -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons | From mcnixon at gmail.com Wed Mar 9 13:40:21 2005 From: mcnixon at gmail.com (Mike Nixon) Date: Wed Mar 9 13:43:17 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <20050309191912.GC31310@sherohman.org> References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> <20050309182819.GA31310@sherohman.org> <422F482B.8070407@visi.com> <20050309191912.GC31310@sherohman.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 13:19:12 -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: > On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 01:02:03PM -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > How do you pronounce SSH ??? > > We may as well go for the big ones... How do you pronounce "vi"? my first answer is "six" but otherwise I'd say it rhymes with "buy" Mike Nixon From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Mar 9 13:41:49 2005 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Wed Mar 9 13:45:17 2005 Subject: GNU, Stallman, and Linux was Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions Message-ID: >>> Mike Miller 03/09/05 12:46 PM >>> >On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Dave Sherohman wrote: >> Then again, Stallman's advocated for "Linux" starting with an invisible >> (but decidedly not silent...) "GNU", but that doesn't seem to have >> caught on. (Thankfully.) >It doesn't predominate, but I've heard it fairly often. >Linux would not have existed if it weren't for GNU and the GPL. I can >understand why Stallman feels a bit ripped off when he started the ball >rolling and Torvalds is getting most of the attention. Torvald's >contribution looks a lot smaller to me than Stallman's. On one hand, I am a big fan of Stallman's simply because of GNU and the GPL. I feel bad for him because he is not usually given due credit for his accomplishments. On the other hand, the "GNU Linux" thing makes him look like a glory hound. Bad PR. I think Linux owes much to many contributors like Andrew Tridgell and Tatu Ylonen, but they would look only slightly more silly suggesting calling Linux names like Samba Linux and SSH Linux. Their contributions may not compare to GNUs, but it doesn't matter. The suggester of the "name change" appears to be "tooting their own horn" and "needy" for attention. To me, Linux is a cool kernel and lots of great GNU (and other) software. But people (myself included) like to refer to things by short names. I (and at least a few others) don't feel the need to proclaim GNUs greatness every time I mention Linux. I still know GNU is great software. The fact that others do not is a GNU public relations problem, not a problem Linux or Linus Torvalds has to solve. That's my 2 cents. Troy From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Mar 9 13:53:51 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed Mar 9 13:57:16 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <20050309191912.GC31310@sherohman.org> References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> <20050309182819.GA31310@sherohman.org> <422F482B.8070407@visi.com> <20050309191912.GC31310@sherohman.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Dave Sherohman wrote: > On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 01:02:03PM -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: >> How do you pronounce SSH ??? > > We may as well go for the big ones... How do you pronounce "vi"? Again, this is what you do... http://www.google.com/search?q=vi+pronounced Google gives you the answer. Mike From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Mar 9 13:55:48 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed Mar 9 14:00:40 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <20050309133359.A198@baker.space.umn.edu> References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> <20050309182819.GA31310@sherohman.org> <422F482B.8070407@visi.com> <20050309191912.GC31310@sherohman.org> <20050309133359.A198@baker.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Jim Crumley wrote: > ssh - "ess ess aitch" (spell it out) > vi - "vee eye" or "vie" > Linux - "LIE nucks", though I am starting to say "lih nucks" vee eye LIH nuhks - a good American approximation. Linus actually pronounces it a bit more like LEE nooks, but he has an accent! ;-) LIE nucks, though accepted, is not really correct. Mike From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Mar 9 13:59:37 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed Mar 9 14:03:17 2005 Subject: GNU, Stallman, and Linux was Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > On the other hand, the "GNU Linux" thing makes him look like a glory > hound. Bad PR. I think Linux owes much to many contributors like Andrew > Tridgell and Tatu Ylonen, but they would look only slightly more silly > suggesting calling Linux names like Samba Linux and SSH Linux. Their > contributions may not compare to GNUs, but it doesn't matter. The > suggester of the "name change" appears to be "tooting their own horn" > and "needy" for attention. Maybe, or he might just be trying to promote FSF, GPL, GNU, etc. > To me, Linux is a cool kernel and lots of great GNU (and other) > software. But people (myself included) like to refer to things by short > names. I (and at least a few others) don't feel the need to proclaim > GNUs greatness every time I mention Linux. I still know GNU is great > software. The fact that others do not is a GNU public relations problem, > not a problem Linux or Linus Torvalds has to solve. It is a public relations problem that would be lessened if you would call Linux "GNU/Linux" instead of simply "Linux." The only reason Linux did anything useful was because of GNU software. That might be different today, but not much different. I'm not going to argue about this because it isn't important to me, but I just want to say that I think it isn't foolish to tack a 'GNU' on the front of Linux. Mike From christophermsmith at gmail.com Wed Mar 9 14:19:43 2005 From: christophermsmith at gmail.com (Chris Smith) Date: Wed Mar 9 14:23:17 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> <20050309182819.GA31310@sherohman.org> <422F482B.8070407@visi.com> <20050309191912.GC31310@sherohman.org> <20050309133359.A198@baker.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <5bab831e050309121927e9e28f@mail.gmail.com> how about the /etc directory? eeet see or do you say etcetera or EEE TEEE CEEE ? (E.T.C) Chris On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 13:55:48 -0600 (CST), Mike Miller wrote: > On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Jim Crumley wrote: > > > ssh - "ess ess aitch" (spell it out) > > vi - "vee eye" or "vie" > > Linux - "LIE nucks", though I am starting to say "lih nucks" > > vee eye > > LIH nuhks - a good American approximation. Linus actually pronounces it a > bit more like LEE nooks, but he has an accent! ;-) > > LIE nucks, though accepted, is not really correct. > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Mar 9 14:23:30 2005 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Wed Mar 9 14:27:16 2005 Subject: GNU, Stallman, and Linux was Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions Message-ID: >>> Mike Miller 03/09/05 1:59 PM >>> >On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Troy.A Johnson wrote: >> To me, Linux is a cool kernel and lots of great GNU (and other) >> software. But people (myself included) like to refer to things by short >> names. I (and at least a few others) don't feel the need to proclaim >> GNUs greatness every time I mention Linux. I still know GNU is great >> software. The fact that others do not is a GNU public relations problem, >> not a problem Linux or Linus Torvalds has to solve. >It is a public relations problem that would be lessened if you would call >Linux "GNU/Linux" instead of simply "Linux." Or if I called my Solaris install GNU Solaris because I use so much GNU software there. Or if I called my Windows install GNU Windows for the same reason. But I'm not going to do that. If PR is so important to him he should chuck the GPL and use a modified BSD license instead. >I'm not going to argue about this because it isn't important to me, but I >just want to say that I think it isn't foolish to tack a 'GNU' on the >front of Linux. Good, but I think it is foolish to expect me to do that. We disagree, and that is OK. :-) Troy From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Mar 9 14:30:23 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed Mar 9 14:33:18 2005 Subject: GNU, Stallman, and Linux was Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > Or if I called my Solaris install GNU Solaris because > I use so much GNU software there. Or if I called my > Windows install GNU Windows for the same reason. > But I'm not going to do that. Unless Microsoft has some dark secrets, Windows wasn't built with gcc to run GNU software. But Linux was. Solaris was also not built with gcc to run GNU software, but it would have been a better OS if it had been (they do package GNU utils with Solaris now). >> I'm not going to argue about this because it isn't important to me, but >> I just want to say that I think it isn't foolish to tack a 'GNU' on the >> front of Linux. > > Good, but I think it is foolish to expect me to do that. I don't expect anything. I'm arguing with people like you who think it is foolish to refer to GNU/Linux. Your examples above with Windows and Solaris show that you aren't understanding the close relationship of Linux with GNU. Linux was born of GNU. It exists because of GNU and it wouldn't have existed without GNU. Windows and Solaris are nothing like that. Mike From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Mar 9 14:32:10 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed Mar 9 14:37:17 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <5bab831e050309121927e9e28f@mail.gmail.com> References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> <20050309182819.GA31310@sherohman.org> <422F482B.8070407@visi.com> <20050309191912.GC31310@sherohman.org> <20050309133359.A198@baker.space.umn.edu> <5bab831e050309121927e9e28f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Chris Smith wrote: > how about the /etc directory? > eeet see > or do you say etcetera > or EEE TEEE CEEE ? (E.T.C) Google is good... http://www.google.com/search?q=unix+%22etc+pronounced%22 It's "et see". Mike From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Mar 9 14:37:55 2005 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Wed Mar 9 14:41:01 2005 Subject: GNU, Stallman, and Linux was Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions Message-ID: Hehe -- you said you weren't going to argue. It _really_ isn't important to me. :-) >>> Mike Miller 03/09/05 2:30 PM >>> On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > Or if I called my Solaris install GNU Solaris because > I use so much GNU software there. Or if I called my > Windows install GNU Windows for the same reason. > But I'm not going to do that. Unless Microsoft has some dark secrets, Windows wasn't built with gcc to run GNU software. But Linux was. Solaris was also not built with gcc to run GNU software, but it would have been a better OS if it had been (they do package GNU utils with Solaris now). >> I'm not going to argue about this because it isn't important to me, but >> I just want to say that I think it isn't foolish to tack a 'GNU' on the >> front of Linux. > > Good, but I think it is foolish to expect me to do that. I don't expect anything. I'm arguing with people like you who think it is foolish to refer to GNU/Linux. Your examples above with Windows and Solaris show that you aren't understanding the close relationship of Linux with GNU. Linux was born of GNU. It exists because of GNU and it wouldn't have existed without GNU. Windows and Solaris are nothing like that. Mike From bellsoffreedom at animail.net Wed Mar 9 14:57:24 2005 From: bellsoffreedom at animail.net (Nick) Date: Wed Mar 9 14:45:17 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Re: tclug-list Digest, Vol 3, Issue 14 Message-ID: Regarding the Pronunciation Wars plaguing the Open Source Community, I would have to agree with Bruce regarding Suse. I just read in my Linux exam book that it was pronounced 'Suzah'. I have also heard the Gnu is 'Guh-Nu', but there is also no way I'm walking around say Guh-Nome. That'll get you a good beating! When pronounced 'Nome' it actually sounds like a cool program everyone would want to use. The 'Guh-Nome' makes it sound like an ancient monochrome Atari game or something! Nick ---- Begin Original Message ---- From: tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org Sent: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 09:59:41 -0800 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: tclug-list Digest, Vol 3, Issue 14 Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://shadowknight.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-owner@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: ? 1. Re: stupid pronunciation questions (Dan Rue) ? 2. RE: stupid pronunciation questions (Bruce Broecker) ? 3. RE: stupid pronunciation questions (Mike Miller) ? 4. Re: stupid pronunciation questions (Mike Miller) ? 5. RE: stupid pronunciation questions (Adam Maloney) ? 6. RE: stupid pronunciation questions (Jima) --------------------------------------------------------------------- - Message: 1 Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 10:49:39 -0600 From: Dan Rue Subject: Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions To: Chris Smith Cc: TCLUG List Message-ID: <20050309164939.GD59780@therub.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 10:30:28AM -0600, Chris Smith wrote: > the Guh-Nome part i was pretty sure about, though that is helpful. > > I remember reading about it in some Linux mag. Stallman basically said > anything starting with gnu should be GUH-NU-whatever. > hard to do though, espcially around casual linux users... they look at > ?you funny, and you feel compelled to explain, and then you end up > looking like a bit of jerk.. (at least i seem to...) > > Oh, and Suse,,, that one is like Dr. Suess, not Suzy.... since we are > expanding the list. I personally think that in the spirit of open source and there's-more-than-one-way-to-do-it, pronunciation should be an open sport. ?Nobody cares what Stallman says, anyway (ain't no way i'm saying Guh-Nome). dan ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 10:53:08 -0600 From: "Bruce Broecker" Subject: RE: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions To: "TCLUG List" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > -----Original Message----- > > > Oh, and Suse,,, that one is like Dr. Suess, not Suzy.... since we are > expanding the list. Really? I have always used conventional german pronunciation, which means the e on the end would be an uh sound. So, it would be SueZuh. Bruce ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 11:19:21 -0600 (CST) From: Mike Miller Subject: RE: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions To: Bruce Broecker Cc: TCLUG List Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Bruce Broecker wrote: >> Oh, and Suse,,, that one is like Dr. Suess, not Suzy.... since we are >> expanding the list. > > Really? I have always used conventional german pronunciation, which > means the e on the end would be an uh sound. So, it would be SueZuh. You are correct: http://www.google.com/search?q=suse+pronounced Mike ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 11:22:18 -0600 (CST) From: Mike Miller Subject: Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions To: Dan Rue Cc: TCLUG List Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Dan Rue wrote: > I personally think that in the spirit of open source and > there's-more-than-one-way-to-do-it, pronunciation should be an open > sport. ?Nobody cares what Stallman says, anyway (ain't no way i'm saying > Guh-Nome). Go for it. ?I am more conventional about pronunciation because I think consistency facilitates communication. ?I actually do care what Stallman says about the pronunciations of words he makes up like "POSIX". ?When a student asks me how a word is pronounced, I like to give him/her an answer instead of saying "however you like." Mike ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 11:14:13 -0600 (CST) From: Adam Maloney Subject: RE: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions To: TCLUG List Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Bruce Broecker wrote: >> >> Oh, and Suse,,, that one is like Dr. Suess, not Suzy.... since we are >> expanding the list. > > Really? I have always used conventional german pronunciation, which > means the e on the end would be an uh sound. So, it would be SueZuh. suh-lack-ware. ?Easy peasy. Let's do a usability test: ? ? ? ? ?Non-obvious Users get mad if Pronounciation you say it wrong Rhymes with ---------------------------------------------------------------- SuSe [X] [X] Loos-ah Gentoo [X] [X] Poo, Sniff-glue Ubuntu [X] [X] Count Duku Debian [X] [X]* Schmebian Redhat [ ] N/A Dead Rat Slackware [ ] N/A Smack! Ware *Tests have shown that Deeeeebian users get really mad, to the point of threatening physical violence. ?At installfests this typically results in a big slap-and-bite-fest. Obviously Redhat and Slackware are clear winners in the pronounciation area. ?But Redhat ends up losing because it rhymes with expired rodents. So Slackware wins again! ?Is there nothing this great distro can't do? ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 11:38:28 -0600 (CST) From: Jima Subject: RE: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions To: Adam Maloney Cc: TCLUG List Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Adam Maloney wrote: > Obviously Redhat and Slackware are clear winners in the pronounciation > area. ?But Redhat ends up losing because it rhymes with expired rodents. > So Slackware wins again! ?Is there nothing this great distro can't do? Save you from the flamewar you've just started? ;) ? ? Jima ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list@mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 3, Issue 14 ***************************************** ---- End Original Message ---- ?Take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim.? ~ Elie Wiesel View my blog & artwork! *********************** http://artandprose.blogspot.com/ http://www.Care2.com Free e-mail. 100MB storage. Helps charities. Make a Difference: Stop Canada's cruel and senseless baby seal hunt! http://www.care2.com/go/z/saveseals From dave at math.umn.edu Wed Mar 9 14:48:19 2005 From: dave at math.umn.edu (Dave Carlson) Date: Wed Mar 9 14:51:18 2005 Subject: GNU, Stallman, and Linux was Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200503091448.22458.dave@math.umn.edu> On Wednesday 09 March 2005 02:23 pm, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > >>> Mike Miller 03/09/05 1:59 PM >>> > >On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > >> To me, Linux is a cool kernel and lots of great GNU (and other) > >> software. But people (myself included) like to refer to things by short > >> names. I (and at least a few others) don't feel the need to proclaim > >> GNUs greatness every time I mention Linux. I still know GNU is great > >> software. The fact that others do not is a GNU public relations > problem, > >> not a problem Linux or Linus Torvalds has to solve. > >It is a public relations problem that would be lessened if you would call > > >Linux "GNU/Linux" instead of simply "Linux." > > Or if I called my Solaris install GNU Solaris because > I use so much GNU software there. Or if I called my > Windows install GNU Windows for the same reason. Different scope: Solaris does not require any GNU software to run or build Windows does not require any GNU software to run or build (AFAIK) Linux *does* require GNU software to run or build (the GNU compiler collection, and, as a good userland example, libc) > But I'm not going to do that. If PR is so important to > him he should chuck the GPL and use a modified > BSD license instead. > > >I'm not going to argue about this because it isn't important to me, but I > > >just want to say that I think it isn't foolish to tack a 'GNU' on the > >front of Linux. > > Good, but I think it is foolish to expect me to do that. > We disagree, and that is OK. I don't think anyone's expecting you to tack on the 'GNU/', just not get flustered when someone does tack it on. I've mostly been tacking it on whenever I'm talking to a non-technical person (which usually begs the explaination) - if I tacked it on constantly, non-Linux geeks would probably install GNU/Hurd on my desktop machine April 1st as a retaliation. -- -dave Dave Carlson Systems Administrator School of Mathematics, University of Minnesota http://www.math.umn.edu PGP/GPG Fingerprint: C3D0 9962 1E98 B742 132D 0E1A CE11 7C4B 5309 97A7 (visit http://www.gnupg.org for more information) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050309/9b2d1d0d/attachment.pgp From dave at math.umn.edu Wed Mar 9 14:58:16 2005 From: dave at math.umn.edu (Dave Carlson) Date: Wed Mar 9 15:04:26 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <5bab831e050309121927e9e28f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200503091458.19182.dave@math.umn.edu> On Wednesday 09 March 2005 02:32 pm, Mike Miller wrote: > On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Chris Smith wrote: > > > how about the /etc directory? > > eeet see > > or do you say etcetera > > or EEE TEEE CEEE ? (E.T.C) > > Google is good... > > http://www.google.com/search?q=unix+%22etc+pronounced%22 > > It's "et see". I say 'et cetera', others around me use 'et see'. If /etc is 'et see', is /usr 'uss er'? /tmp 'timp'? How about pronouncing /lib? lib- as in librarian (prolly correct but awkward) or lib- as in liberation (less awkward)? they should add a pronunciation standard to FHS... -- -dave Dave Carlson Systems Administrator School of Mathematics, University of Minnesota http://www.math.umn.edu PGP/GPG Fingerprint: C3D0 9962 1E98 B742 132D 0E1A CE11 7C4B 5309 97A7 (visit http://www.gnupg.org for more information) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050309/2309a661/attachment.pgp From esper at sherohman.org Wed Mar 9 14:59:27 2005 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Wed Mar 9 15:04:31 2005 Subject: GNU, Stallman, and Linux was Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050309205927.GE31310@sherohman.org> On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 02:30:23PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote: > I'm arguing with people like you who think it is foolish to refer to > GNU/Linux. Your examples above with Windows and Solaris show that you > aren't understanding the close relationship of Linux with GNU. Linux was > born of GNU. It exists because of GNU and it wouldn't have existed > without GNU. Windows and Solaris are nothing like that. As the one who initially opened this can of worms... I have no issue with people who choose to use the invisible "GNU" prefix. Hell, I use Debian GNU/Linux by preference at every opportunity. What I _do_ have an issue with are the people who follow Stallman's lead and insist that I must also use the "GNU" prefix. You wanna say "GNU/Linux"? Fine. Just don't get on my case when I don't. -- The freedoms that we enjoy presently are the most important victories of the White Hats over the past several millennia, and it is vitally important that we don't give them up now, only because we are frightened. - Eolake Stobblehouse (http://stobblehouse.com/text/battle.html) From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Mar 9 15:00:48 2005 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Wed Mar 9 15:09:17 2005 Subject: GNU, Stallman, and Linux was Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <200503091448.22458.dave@math.umn.edu> References: <200503091448.22458.dave@math.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20050309210048.GA16879@wookimus.net> Dave Carlson wrote: > Linux *does* require GNU software to run or build (the GNU compiler > collection, and, as a good userland example, libc) I don't believe the kernel itself requires glibc, and even the gcc requirements are subject to discussion. Historically, this is probably true, but is it true today? In any case, *most* Linux installations have certainly been built on GNU tools and libraries. -- Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050309/ad9f9ca6/attachment.pgp From christophermsmith at gmail.com Wed Mar 9 15:07:11 2005 From: christophermsmith at gmail.com (Chris Smith) Date: Wed Mar 9 15:10:51 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <20050309182819.GA31310@sherohman.org> <422F482B.8070407@visi.com> <20050309191912.GC31310@sherohman.org> <20050309133359.A198@baker.space.umn.edu> <5bab831e050309121927e9e28f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5bab831e0503091307657dcb38@mail.gmail.com> Wow. I didn't think google would get that one... (not being an application) nice! On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 14:32:10 -0600 (CST), Mike Miller wrote: > On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Chris Smith wrote: > > > how about the /etc directory? > > eeet see > > or do you say etcetera > > or EEE TEEE CEEE ? (E.T.C) > > Google is good... > > http://www.google.com/search?q=unix+%22etc+pronounced%22 > > It's "et see". > > Mike > From josh at tcbug.org Wed Mar 9 15:16:17 2005 From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel) Date: Wed Mar 9 15:19:17 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Re: [Tcbug] Bringing Greg Lehey to town In-Reply-To: <200503091509.35892.josh@tcbug.org> References: <200503091509.35892.josh@tcbug.org> Message-ID: <200503091516.17783.josh@tcbug.org> On Wednesday 09 March 2005 15:09, you wrote: > > I have opened a dialog with Greg Lehey about having him do a > > weekend seminar here in Minneapolis. He will be in the USA on > > May 10th; he has time to come to Minnesota the weekend before > > that (the 7th) He suggested the meeting be about FreeBSD kernel > > debugging. > > > > We bounced some numbers around and he's willing to do this for > > $5000 USD. That's 100 people at $50 a head. I also need to get > > some pricing on what a weekend in a hotel would cost. My idea > > there is to build the hotel cost into the price of the seminar > > (hopefully getting a discount there) Obviously we will not > > charge people for the hotel if they don't need it. > > > > If anyone has ideas on any aspect of this (especially getting the > > word out) please let me know. > > I'll second the suggestion about posting this to TCLUG because of > the size of the group and the fact that many on that list also use > FreeBSD. http://www.tclug.org/ > > -- > scot -- Thanks, Josh Paetzel From dave at math.umn.edu Wed Mar 9 15:21:59 2005 From: dave at math.umn.edu (Dave Carlson) Date: Wed Mar 9 15:26:26 2005 Subject: GNU, Stallman, and Linux was Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <20050309210048.GA16879@wookimus.net> References: <200503091448.22458.dave@math.umn.edu> <20050309210048.GA16879@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <200503091522.02828.dave@math.umn.edu> On Wednesday 09 March 2005 03:00 pm, Chad Walstrom wrote: > Dave Carlson wrote: > > Linux *does* require GNU software to run or build (the GNU compiler > > collection, and, as a good userland example, libc) > > I don't believe the kernel itself requires glibc, It doesn't ('userland'). uClibc is a good alternative - itself requiring GCC to build. > and even the gcc > requirements are subject to discussion. Historically, this is probably > true, but is it true today? In any case, *most* Linux installations > have certainly been built on GNU tools and libraries. Linux only compiles on gcc, as far as I'm aware. The README only speaks of gcc 2.95.3 (but the gcc requirement definitely is there) - certainly some compiler maker could hack their compiler to be compatible, or hack the kernel to be other-compiler-compatible, but both are monstrous and ultimately dissapointing projects. I would say that _all_ Linux installations have been built with/on GNU tools, and only non-glibc installations wouldn't have been built on the libraries. -- -dave Dave Carlson Systems Administrator School of Mathematics, University of Minnesota http://www.math.umn.edu PGP/GPG Fingerprint: C3D0 9962 1E98 B742 132D 0E1A CE11 7C4B 5309 97A7 (visit http://www.gnupg.org for more information) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050309/524b645a/attachment.pgp From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Mar 9 15:48:01 2005 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Wed Mar 9 15:51:18 2005 Subject: GNU, Stallman, and Linux was Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions Message-ID: >>> Dave Carlson 03/09/05 3:21 PM >>> >Linux only compiles on gcc, as far as I'm aware. These articles mention compiling the Linux kernel with the Intel compiler: http://www.ussg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0403.1/0503.html http://blog.janik.cz/archives/2004-03-11T23_04_41.html http://www.askwebhosting.com/story/699/Red_Flag_Delivers_First_Commercial_Version_of_Linux_Compiled_with_Intel_Compiler.html and LKML posts I read discuss using gcc 3.2.x. From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Mar 9 16:02:13 2005 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Wed Mar 9 16:05:17 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] modprobe ip_conntrack_ftp Message-ID: TCLUGers, I want to load the "ip_conntrack" and "ip_conntrack_ftp" iptables kernel modules at boot time. Right now I do it with a "/etc/rc.d/rc.firewall" script called from "/etc/rc.d/rc.local" at boot that uses modprobe to load the modules. It works. I am curious, though, if there is some syntax I could use in "/etc/modprobe.conf" to make these load at boot time. This seems "more correct" to me, but I have not found the syntax to make it work yet. Troy From dave at math.umn.edu Wed Mar 9 16:20:42 2005 From: dave at math.umn.edu (Dave Carlson) Date: Wed Mar 9 16:23:18 2005 Subject: GNU, Stallman, and Linux was Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200503091620.47395.dave@math.umn.edu> On Wednesday 09 March 2005 03:48 pm, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > >>> Dave Carlson 03/09/05 3:21 PM >>> > >Linux only compiles on gcc, as far as I'm aware. > > These articles mention compiling the Linux > kernel with the Intel compiler: > > http://www.ussg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0403.1/0503.html > http://blog.janik.cz/archives/2004-03-11T23_04_41.html > http://www.askwebhosting.com/story/699/Red_Flag_Delivers_First_Commercial_Version_of_Linux_Compiled_with_Intel_Compiler.html Ah, I thought as much. Does Intel-C++ come with any binutils replacements? > and LKML posts I read discuss using gcc > 3.2.x. My current machine has it built from gcc-3.4; I'd bet that's a pretty good test case for GCC... -- -dave Dave Carlson Systems Administrator School of Mathematics, University of Minnesota http://www.math.umn.edu PGP/GPG Fingerprint: C3D0 9962 1E98 B742 132D 0E1A CE11 7C4B 5309 97A7 (visit http://www.gnupg.org for more information) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050309/d0cc5ef9/attachment.pgp From wilson at visi.com Wed Mar 9 16:22:16 2005 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Wed Mar 9 16:27:26 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Server went down hard -- need advice Message-ID: Hey everybody, I'm hoping someone has some advice for me here. We've got a server at work that kernel paniced and isn't coming back up cleanly. It's running Debian and acts as our trouble ticketing system (ironic?) and some other assorted services. I think the kernel panic came because some went back with PostgreSQL, but it's not clear yet. On rebooting we got something like this: Activating swap. Checking root file system... ./rcS: line 243: 328 Segmentation fault fsck $spinner $force $fix -t $roottype $rootdev Fsck failed. Please repaid manually and reboot. Please note that the root file system is currently mounted read-only. To remount it read-write: # mount -n -o remount,rw / CONTROL-D will exit from this shell and REBOOT the system. Give root password for maintenance (or type Control-D to continue): Now I've seen something like this screen before. We entered the root password and manually fscked the partitions. They all come back clean now. I'm puzzled by the segfault with rcS. There is no line 243 in that file. I assume the actual problem is one of the initscripts that get called by rcS. I'm also seeing weirdness with the mount command. I am manually mounting some partitions, but they're not showing up when I run 'mount'. I know that they're mounted because I can traverse the directories. Can anyone shed any light on this? I don't want to sound too panicked, but this is a pretty critical system for us and I need to get it back up ASAP. Any and all help is greatly appreciated. -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 blog: http://technosavvy.org/ From poptix at poptix.net Wed Mar 9 17:01:35 2005 From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Wed Mar 9 17:05:19 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: References: <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> <20050309182819.GA31310@sherohman.org> <422F482B.8070407@visi.com> <20050309191912.GC31310@sherohman.org> <20050309133359.A198@baker.space.umn.edu> <5bab831e050309121927e9e28f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050309230135.GG10682@momentum.poptix.net> On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 02:32:10PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote: > On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Chris Smith wrote: > > >how about the /etc directory? > >eeet see > >or do you say etcetera > >or EEE TEEE CEEE ? (E.T.C) > > Google is good... > > http://www.google.com/search?q=unix+%22etc+pronounced%22 > > It's "et see". So you say 'et see tera' for etcetera? Everyone please go back to 2nd grade english, thanks. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From dave at math.umn.edu Wed Mar 9 17:06:37 2005 From: dave at math.umn.edu (Dave Carlson) Date: Wed Mar 9 17:09:18 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Server went down hard -- need advice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200503091706.39894.dave@math.umn.edu> On Wednesday 09 March 2005 04:22 pm, Tim Wilson wrote: > Now I've seen something like this screen before. We entered the root > password and manually fscked the partitions. They all come back clean now. > I'm puzzled by the segfault with rcS. There is no line 243 in that file. I > assume the actual problem is one of the initscripts that get called by rcS. fsck is a bit fragile sometimes, especially with hardware errors (!) > I'm also seeing weirdness with the mount command. I am manually mounting > some partitions, but they're not showing up when I run 'mount'. I know that > they're mounted because I can traverse the directories. That happens when / is read-only (mount just reads /etc/mtab). It will remount read-only on errors, so that may be part of it. > Can anyone shed any light on this? I don't want to sound too panicked, but > this is a pretty critical system for us and I need to get it back up ASAP. Boot with KNOPPIX or some other live or rescue CD and fsck everything. Then run dpkg -C or some debian command to check packages. Anticipate 'Plan B' on plundering the drive and having to re-install the server. -- -dave Dave Carlson Systems Administrator School of Mathematics, University of Minnesota http://www.math.umn.edu PGP/GPG Fingerprint: C3D0 9962 1E98 B742 132D 0E1A CE11 7C4B 5309 97A7 (visit http://www.gnupg.org for more information) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050309/64968d71/attachment.pgp From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Mar 9 17:04:44 2005 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Wed Mar 9 17:11:19 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] modprobe ip_conntrack_ftp Message-ID: I forgot to mention that this is on a Fedora Core 3 system. Sorry about that. Troy >>> "Troy.A Johnson" 03/09/05 4:02 PM >>> I want to load the "ip_conntrack" and "ip_conntrack_ftp" iptables kernel modules at boot time. ... I am curious, though, if there is some syntax I could use in "/etc/modprobe.conf" to make these load at boot time. This seems "more correct" to me, but I have not found the syntax to make it work yet. From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Mar 9 17:12:37 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed Mar 9 17:15:19 2005 Subject: GNU, Stallman, and Linux was Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > Hehe -- you said you weren't going to argue. > It _really_ isn't important to me. :-) You changed the topic from what to call Linux to whether GNU has more to do with Linux than it has to do with Solaris or Windows. That I'll argue about. Mike From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Mar 9 17:15:25 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed Mar 9 17:19:19 2005 Subject: GNU, Stallman, and Linux was Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <20050309205927.GE31310@sherohman.org> References: <20050309205927.GE31310@sherohman.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Dave Sherohman wrote: > As the one who initially opened this can of worms... I have no issue > with people who choose to use the invisible "GNU" prefix. Hell, I > use Debian GNU/Linux by preference at every opportunity. What I _do_ > have an issue with are the people who follow Stallman's lead and > insist that I must also use the "GNU" prefix. > > You wanna say "GNU/Linux"? Fine. Just don't get on my case when I > don't. It's ok. Relax. When someone does that, let 'em have it. It hasn't happened here. Mike From dave at math.umn.edu Wed Mar 9 17:22:18 2005 From: dave at math.umn.edu (Dave Carlson) Date: Wed Mar 9 17:25:18 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] modprobe ip_conntrack_ftp In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200503091722.21116.dave@math.umn.edu> On Wednesday 09 March 2005 05:04 pm, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > I forgot to mention that this is on a Fedora > Core 3 system. Sorry about that. if you want them to load right after after iptables goes up, add IPTABLES_MODULES="ip_conntrack_ftp" IPTABLES_MODULES_UNLOAD="yes" to /etc/sysconfig/iptables-config. I'm pretty sure ip_conntrack will get pulled in either by default or by _ftp - they seem to be pulled in with our client firewall rules (which include state). If it doesn't have both, try adding both to the modules line. > >>> "Troy.A Johnson" 03/09/05 4:02 PM > >>> > I want to load the "ip_conntrack" and > "ip_conntrack_ftp" iptables kernel > modules at boot time. > ... > I am curious, though, if there is some syntax > I could use in "/etc/modprobe.conf" to make > these load at boot time. This seems "more > correct" to me, but I have not found the > syntax to make it work yet. modprobe is only for module options or device request associated modules - it works on request only (and cant force). In the past (FC2) we had to force loading the pc speaker (modprobe pcspkr), which the cleanest way was to add it to rc.local. -- -dave Dave Carlson Systems Administrator School of Mathematics, University of Minnesota http://www.math.umn.edu 8 Vincent Hall Computer Support Requests: 612-625-4895 Cell Phone: 612-747-5415 (personal) E-mail Pager: 6127475415@mobile.att.net PGP/GPG Fingerprint: C3D0 9962 1E98 B742 132D 0E1A CE11 7C4B 5309 97A7 (visit http://www.gnupg.org for more information) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050309/89d6504a/attachment.pgp From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Mar 9 17:24:55 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed Mar 9 17:27:37 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <20050309230135.GG10682@momentum.poptix.net> References: <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> <20050309182819.GA31310@sherohman.org> <422F482B.8070407@visi.com> <20050309191912.GC31310@sherohman.org> <20050309133359.A198@baker.space.umn.edu> <5bab831e050309121927e9e28f@mail.gmail.com> <20050309230135.GG10682@momentum.poptix.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: >> Google is good... >> >> http://www.google.com/search?q=unix+%22etc+pronounced%22 >> >> It's "et see". > > So you say 'et see tera' for etcetera? > > Everyone please go back to 2nd grade english, thanks. "et see" is a shortened way of saying "et cetera" (which is two words). In the UNIX world that you seem to be just starting to learn about, we have some weird spellings and shortened ways of saying things. Someday you will learn about things like usr, tmp, TeX and LaTeX. They might cause you to pound on a dictionary in anger, but we don't care about the dictionary and we have our own ways of saying things. Mike From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Mar 9 17:28:09 2005 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Wed Mar 9 17:31:18 2005 Subject: GNU, Stallman, and Linux was Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions Message-ID: *realizes his mistake, too late* *backs slowly away from the zealots* ;-) >>> Mike Miller 03/09/05 5:12 PM >>> On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > Hehe -- you said you weren't going to argue. > It _really_ isn't important to me. :-) You changed the topic from what to call Linux to whether GNU has more to do with Linux than it has to do with Solaris or Windows. That I'll argue about. From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Mar 9 17:30:50 2005 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Wed Mar 9 17:33:39 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] modprobe ip_conntrack_ftp Message-ID: *kicks himself for not reading iptables-config* Thanks Dave! >>> Dave Carlson 03/09/05 5:22 PM >>> On Wednesday 09 March 2005 05:04 pm, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > I forgot to mention that this is on a Fedora > Core 3 system. Sorry about that. if you want them to load right after after iptables goes up, add IPTABLES_MODULES="ip_conntrack_ftp" IPTABLES_MODULES_UNLOAD="yes" to /etc/sysconfig/iptables-config. I'm pretty sure ip_conntrack will get pulled in either by default or by _ftp - they seem to be pulled in with our client firewall rules (which include state). If it doesn't have both, try adding both to the modules line. > >>> "Troy.A Johnson" 03/09/05 4:02 PM > >>> > I want to load the "ip_conntrack" and > "ip_conntrack_ftp" iptables kernel > modules at boot time. > ... > I am curious, though, if there is some syntax > I could use in "/etc/modprobe.conf" to make > these load at boot time. This seems "more > correct" to me, but I have not found the > syntax to make it work yet. modprobe is only for module options or device request associated modules - it works on request only (and cant force). In the past (FC2) we had to force loading the pc speaker (modprobe pcspkr), which the cleanest way was to add it to rc.local. From narshe at gmail.com Wed Mar 9 17:50:02 2005 From: narshe at gmail.com (Josh Close) Date: Wed Mar 9 17:53:18 2005 Subject: GNU, Stallman, and Linux was Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4a0cafe2050309155055e4b6d@mail.gmail.com> I'm pretty GNU/Linux is gnu because it's built with gnu software and compiled with gcc. That's why it's GNU/Linux. You could build a linux distro on whatever compiler and with what ever software you want. Then it wouldn't be GNU/Linux. If you made an LFS that comprised of gnu software, it would be GNU/LFS :P I think Solaris isn't built on all Sun software. Windows is definitely built on all microsoft crap. -Josh On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 13:41:49 -0600, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > >>> Mike Miller 03/09/05 12:46 PM >>> > >On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Dave Sherohman wrote: > >> Then again, Stallman's advocated for "Linux" starting with an invisible > > >> (but decidedly not silent...) "GNU", but that doesn't seem to have > >> caught on. (Thankfully.) > >It doesn't predominate, but I've heard it fairly often. > >Linux would not have existed if it weren't for GNU and the GPL. I can > >understand why Stallman feels a bit ripped off when he started the ball > >rolling and Torvalds is getting most of the attention. Torvald's > >contribution looks a lot smaller to me than Stallman's. > > On one hand, I am a big fan of Stallman's simply > because of GNU and the GPL. I feel bad for him > because he is not usually given due credit for his > accomplishments. > > On the other hand, the "GNU Linux" thing makes > him look like a glory hound. Bad PR. I think Linux > owes much to many contributors like Andrew Tridgell > and Tatu Ylonen, but they would look only slightly > more silly suggesting calling Linux names like > Samba Linux and SSH Linux. Their contributions > may not compare to GNUs, but it doesn't matter. The > suggester of the "name change" appears to be > "tooting their own horn" and "needy" for attention. > > To me, Linux is a cool kernel and lots of great > GNU (and other) software. But people (myself included) > like to refer to things by short names. I (and at least a > few others) don't feel the need to proclaim GNUs > greatness every time I mention Linux. I still know GNU > is great software. The fact that others do not is a GNU > public relations problem, not a problem Linux or Linus > Torvalds has to solve. > > That's my 2 cents. > > Troy > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From narshe at gmail.com Wed Mar 9 17:57:53 2005 From: narshe at gmail.com (Josh Close) Date: Wed Mar 9 18:01:19 2005 Subject: GNU, Stallman, and Linux was Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <4a0cafe2050309155055e4b6d@mail.gmail.com> References: <4a0cafe2050309155055e4b6d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4a0cafe205030915573c37523a@mail.gmail.com> BTW, this should clear it up for all of you. http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html -Josh On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 17:50:02 -0600, Josh Close wrote: > I'm pretty GNU/Linux is gnu because it's built with gnu software and > compiled with gcc. That's why it's GNU/Linux. > > You could build a linux distro on whatever compiler and with what ever > software you want. Then it wouldn't be GNU/Linux. If you made an LFS > that comprised of gnu software, it would be GNU/LFS :P > > I think Solaris isn't built on all Sun software. Windows is definitely > built on all microsoft crap. > > -Josh > > On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 13:41:49 -0600, Troy.A Johnson > wrote: > > >>> Mike Miller 03/09/05 12:46 PM >>> > > >On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Dave Sherohman wrote: > > >> Then again, Stallman's advocated for "Linux" starting with an invisible > > > > >> (but decidedly not silent...) "GNU", but that doesn't seem to have > > >> caught on. (Thankfully.) > > >It doesn't predominate, but I've heard it fairly often. > > >Linux would not have existed if it weren't for GNU and the GPL. I can > > >understand why Stallman feels a bit ripped off when he started the ball > > >rolling and Torvalds is getting most of the attention. Torvald's > > >contribution looks a lot smaller to me than Stallman's. > > > > On one hand, I am a big fan of Stallman's simply > > because of GNU and the GPL. I feel bad for him > > because he is not usually given due credit for his > > accomplishments. > > > > On the other hand, the "GNU Linux" thing makes > > him look like a glory hound. Bad PR. I think Linux > > owes much to many contributors like Andrew Tridgell > > and Tatu Ylonen, but they would look only slightly > > more silly suggesting calling Linux names like > > Samba Linux and SSH Linux. Their contributions > > may not compare to GNUs, but it doesn't matter. The > > suggester of the "name change" appears to be > > "tooting their own horn" and "needy" for attention. > > > > To me, Linux is a cool kernel and lots of great > > GNU (and other) software. But people (myself included) > > like to refer to things by short names. I (and at least a > > few others) don't feel the need to proclaim GNUs > > greatness every time I mention Linux. I still know GNU > > is great software. The fact that others do not is a GNU > > public relations problem, not a problem Linux or Linus > > Torvalds has to solve. > > > > That's my 2 cents. > > > > Troy > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From poptix at poptix.net Wed Mar 9 18:41:51 2005 From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Wed Mar 9 18:45:20 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: References: <20050309182819.GA31310@sherohman.org> <422F482B.8070407@visi.com> <20050309191912.GC31310@sherohman.org> <20050309133359.A198@baker.space.umn.edu> <5bab831e050309121927e9e28f@mail.gmail.com> <20050309230135.GG10682@momentum.poptix.net> Message-ID: <20050310004151.GH10682@momentum.poptix.net> # dict etcetera 1 definition found >From WordNet (r) 2.0 [wn]: etcetera n : additional unspecified odds and ends; more of the same; "his report was full of etceteras" adv : continuing in the same way [syn: {and so forth}, {and so on}, {etc.}] # dict 'et cetera' 1 definition found >From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) [web1913]: Et cetera \Et` cet"e*ra\, Et caetera \Et` c[ae]t"e*ra\ . [L. et and + caetera other things.] Others of the like kind; and the rest; and so on; -- used to point out that other things which could be mentioned are to be understood. Usually abbreviated into etc. or &c. (&c). --Shak. http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=et+cetera&x=0&y=0 ^- click on the speaker icons, for those without the proper plugins: http://cougar.eb.com/sound/e/etcete01.wav http://cougar.eb.com/sound/e/etcete02.wav On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 05:24:55PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote: > > "et see" is a shortened way of saying "et cetera" (which is two words). "a shortened way". "Idiot" is a way of saying "Mike Miller", but I'm not sure you would agree that it is correct. > > In the UNIX world that you seem to be just starting to learn about, we > have some weird spellings and shortened ways of saying things. You're rather uninformed. > Someday > you will learn about things like usr, tmp, TeX and LaTeX. They might > cause you to pound on a dictionary in anger, but we don't care about the > dictionary and we have our own ways of saying things. Perhaps you haven't noticed that, if anything, UNIX has many ways of doing many things. This includes pronouncing things differently. When in question I prefer the ones that make sense (mentally and phoneticly), just because there are a number of illiterate fools saying 'leenooks' or 'ooh nicks' doesn't mean others should follow. tmp = temp vi = vie (vee eye is equally correct) vim = vim (vee eye em as well, a funny way of saying vi improved) GNU = Gee En Yoo (because Guh Noo sounds stupid and confuses people, regardless of the fact that it's not an acronym) usr = user TeX = the X is actually the Greek letter Chi, a 'k'-ish sound, rhymes with "blecchhh". Not terribly easy to say in English. cron = cron (rhymes with yawn) ifconfig = eye eff config It's pointless to argue about. People butcher the English language daily with crap like 'r u there?', 'ur a dumbass', misuse of 'your' and 'you're', too/to/two, etc. Squabbling over things which have no defined pronunciations is truly competing in the Special Olympics. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From poptix at poptix.net Wed Mar 9 18:56:02 2005 From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Wed Mar 9 18:59:19 2005 Subject: GNU, Stallman, and Linux was Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050310005602.GI10682@momentum.poptix.net> On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 01:59:37PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote: > On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > > It is a public relations problem that would be lessened if you would call > Linux "GNU/Linux" instead of simply "Linux." Not really, to resolve the public relations problem we would have to call it Apache/SSH/(Sendmail|Postfix|DJB)/(MySQL|PostgreSQL)/(RedHat|SuSE|Debian|Slackware|Gentoo|Peanut|...)/BSD/GNU/Linux I'm sure I missed a few. > > The only reason Linux did anything useful was because of GNU software. > That might be different today, but not much different. Really? I run many Linux systems without a single piece of GNU software. It's certainly not a requirement, and never has been. Simply calling it GNU/Linux excludes the many other contributors who have been just as responsible for the popularity of Linux. All or none. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Mar 9 19:07:05 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed Mar 9 19:11:20 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <20050310004151.GH10682@momentum.poptix.net> References: <20050309182819.GA31310@sherohman.org> <422F482B.8070407@visi.com> <20050309191912.GC31310@sherohman.org> <20050309133359.A198@baker.space.umn.edu> <5bab831e050309121927e9e28f@mail.gmail.com> <20050309230135.GG10682@momentum.poptix.net> <20050310004151.GH10682@momentum.poptix.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 05:24:55PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote: >> >> "et see" is a shortened way of saying "et cetera" (which is two words). > > "a shortened way". "Idiot" is a way of saying "Mike Miller", but I'm not > sure you would agree that it is correct. Well, Matthew, I can see that you have some problems. The thing is, as I pointed out before you started your series of rude messages, to call the /etc directory "et see" is a widespread practice. I showed the evidence here: http://www.google.com/search?q=unix+%22etc+pronounced%22 That is a fact that you find unappealing for reasons that I will never know. Mike From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Mar 9 19:09:32 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed Mar 9 19:13:19 2005 Subject: GNU, Stallman, and Linux was Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <20050310005602.GI10682@momentum.poptix.net> References: <20050310005602.GI10682@momentum.poptix.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: >> The only reason Linux did anything useful was because of GNU software. >> That might be different today, but not much different. > > Really? I run many Linux systems without a single piece of GNU software. > It's certainly not a requirement, and never has been. That is barely credible. You don't have ls, pwd, grep? None of those? Why would you want a system devoid of such tools? Mike From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Mar 9 19:25:07 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed Mar 9 19:29:19 2005 Subject: GNU, Stallman, and Linux was Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <4a0cafe205030915573c37523a@mail.gmail.com> References: <4a0cafe2050309155055e4b6d@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205030915573c37523a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Josh Close wrote: > BTW, this should clear it up for all of you. > > http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html The guy who wrote "No, RMS, Linux is not GNU/Linux"... http://librenix.com/?inode=2312 ...also wrote "I'm in a bad mood now." There seems to be a lot of anger against Stallman. When I searched for "not GNU/Linux" I found a bunch of web pages: http://www.google.com/search?q=%22not+gnu%2Flinux%22 Mike From narshe at gmail.com Wed Mar 9 19:39:34 2005 From: narshe at gmail.com (Josh Close) Date: Wed Mar 9 19:43:21 2005 Subject: GNU, Stallman, and Linux was Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: References: <4a0cafe2050309155055e4b6d@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205030915573c37523a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4a0cafe2050309173946301463@mail.gmail.com> I think the point is, if you built your system with GNU, it *can* be GNU/Linux. It doesn't *have* to be though. It sound appropriate, but unnecessary to me. Lots of distro's don't call themselves GNU. -Josh On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 19:25:07 -0600 (CST), Mike Miller wrote: > On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Josh Close wrote: > > > BTW, this should clear it up for all of you. > > > > http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html > > The guy who wrote "No, RMS, Linux is not GNU/Linux"... > > http://librenix.com/?inode=2312 > > ...also wrote "I'm in a bad mood now." There seems to be a lot of anger > against Stallman. When I searched for "not GNU/Linux" I found a bunch of > web pages: > > http://www.google.com/search?q=%22not+gnu%2Flinux%22 > > Mike > From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Mar 9 20:02:23 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed Mar 9 20:05:19 2005 Subject: GNU, Stallman, and Linux was Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <4a0cafe2050309173946301463@mail.gmail.com> References: <4a0cafe2050309155055e4b6d@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205030915573c37523a@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe2050309173946301463@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Linus Torvalds wrote: http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/Historic/old-versions/RELNOTES-0.01 Sadly, a kernel by itself gets you nowhere. To get a working system you need a shell, compilers, a library etc. These are separate parts and may be under a stricter (or even looser) copyright. Most of the tools used with linux are GNU software and are under the GNU copyleft. These tools aren't in the distribution - ask me (or GNU) for more info. Mike From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Mar 9 20:03:32 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed Mar 9 20:08:40 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux without GNU? How? Message-ID: I really want to hear from the people who say they run Linux without GNU - where do you get the programs to replace ls, cp, mv, rm, mkdir, etc.? What do you use instead? Mike From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Mar 9 20:16:33 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed Mar 9 20:19:19 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> <20050309182819.GA31310@sherohman.org> <422F482B.8070407@visi.com> <20050309191912.GC31310@sherohman.org> <20050309133359.A198@baker.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Mike Miller wrote: > LIH nuhks - a good American approximation. Linus actually pronounces it > a bit more like LEE nooks, but he has an accent! ;-) > > LIE nucks, though accepted, is not really correct. Someone pointed me to this page... http://www.paul.sladen.org/pronunciation/ ...with an audio file similar to (maybe identical to) one that I had heard years ago. Mike From webmaster at mn-linux.org Wed Mar 9 20:19:52 2005 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Wed Mar 9 20:22:59 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200503100219.j2A2Jqr30376@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: SCSI drives Lot of 5 IBM 36.4 GB 7200 RPM SCSI disks Model: DRHS-36D 80 pin SCA-2 connectors These drives are 1.6" tall. $200 cash/OBO for all Seller Email address: scotjenkins at gmail dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From florin at iucha.net Wed Mar 9 20:28:28 2005 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Wed Mar 9 20:31:21 2005 Subject: GNU, Stallman, and Linux was Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <200503091522.02828.dave@math.umn.edu> References: <200503091448.22458.dave@math.umn.edu> <20050309210048.GA16879@wookimus.net> <200503091522.02828.dave@math.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20050310022828.GC31719@iucha.net> On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 03:21:59PM -0600, Dave Carlson wrote: > Linux only compiles on gcc, as far as I'm aware. The README only speaks of > gcc 2.95.3 (but the gcc requirement definitely is there) - certainly some > compiler maker could hack their compiler to be compatible, or hack the kernel > to be other-compiler-compatible, but both are monstrous and ultimately > dissapointing projects. Intel got their C compiler to grok GNU C and they got the kernel to compile. They also got some patches merged into the main kernel to ease their transition but I trust they were accepted on merit (they were cleaning up real cruft). > I would say that _all_ Linux installations have been > built with/on GNU tools, and only non-glibc installations wouldn't have been > built on the libraries. "All" is a loaded term, but "all that really matter" might be accurate. florin -- Don't question authority: they don't know either! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050309/85db4c2e/attachment.pgp From webmaster at mn-linux.org Wed Mar 9 20:34:32 2005 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Wed Mar 9 20:37:21 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200503100234.j2A2YWQ31532@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: 4.5 GB SCSI drive one Seagate 4.55GB 7200 RPM SCSI disk Model: ST34573LC 80 pin SCA connector Full specs at: http://www.seagate.com/ support/disc/specs/ scsi/st34573lc.html Remove spaces from URL (sorry) $10 cash Can meet somewhere in Metro area. Seller Email address: scotjenkins at gmail dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From dave at math.umn.edu Wed Mar 9 21:31:14 2005 From: dave at math.umn.edu (Dave Carlson) Date: Wed Mar 9 21:35:20 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux without GNU? How? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200503092131.16941.dave@math.umn.edu> On Wednesday 09 March 2005 20:03, Mike Miller wrote: > I really want to hear from the people who say they run Linux without GNU - > where do you get the programs to replace ls, cp, mv, rm, mkdir, etc.? > What do you use instead? For starters, you can run busybox. Busybox does: addgroup, adduser, adjtimex, ar, arping, ash, awk, basename, bunzip2, busybox, bzcat, cal, cat, chgrp, chmod, chown, chroot, chvt, clear, cmp, cp, cpio, crond, crontab, cut, date, dc, dd, deallocvt, delgroup, deluser, devfsd, df, dirname, dmesg, dos2unix, dpkg, dpkg-deb, du, dumpkmap, dumpleases, echo, egrep, env, expr, false, fbset, fdflush, fdformat, fdisk, fgrep, find, fold, free, freeramdisk, fsck.minix, ftpget, ftpput, getopt, getty, grep, gunzip, gzip, halt, hdparm, head, hexdump, hostid, hostname, httpd, hush, hwclock, id, ifconfig, ifdown, ifup, inetd, init, insmod, install, ip, ipaddr, ipcalc, iplink, iproute, iptunnel, kill, killall, klogd, lash, last, length, linuxrc, ln, loadfont, loadkmap, logger, login, logname, logread, losetup, ls, lsmod, makedevs, md5sum, mesg, mkdir, mkfifo, mkfs.minix, mknod, mkswap, mktemp, modprobe, more, mount, msh, mt, mv, nameif, nc, netstat, nslookup, od, openvt, passwd, patch, pidof, ping, ping6, pipe_progress, pivot_root, poweroff, printf, ps, pwd, rdate, readlink, realpath, reboot, renice, reset, rm, rmdir, rmmod, route, rpm, rpm2cpio, run-parts, rx, sed, seq, setkeycodes, sha1sum, sleep, sort, start-stop-daemon, strings, stty, su, sulogin, swapoff, swapon, sync, sysctl, syslogd, tail, tar, tee, telnet, telnetd, test, tftp, time, top, touch, tr, traceroute, true, tty, udhcpc, udhcpd, umount, uname, uncompress, uniq, unix2dos, unzip, uptime, usleep, uudecode, uuencode, vconfig, vi, vlock, watch, watchdog, wc, wget, which, who, whoami, xargs, yes, zcat so, _theoretically_ you could compile the linux kernel, uClibc, and busybox. You'd have a GNU-less system (although the build system would still have GNU). However, you don't have support for anything 'fancy' like a graphical system, general linux-binary compatibility, fancy threads, etc. You could have just installed BSD if you were that sour about GNU :) (* runs back in panic room *) -- -dave Dave Carlson Systems Administrator School of Mathematics, University of Minnesota http://www.math.umn.edu PGP/GPG Fingerprint: C3D0 9962 1E98 B742 132D 0E1A CE11 7C4B 5309 97A7 (visit http://www.gnupg.org for more information) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050309/f29dfccb/attachment.pgp From florin at iucha.net Wed Mar 9 21:39:23 2005 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Wed Mar 9 21:43:21 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux without GNU? How? In-Reply-To: <200503092131.16941.dave@math.umn.edu> References: <200503092131.16941.dave@math.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20050310033922.GD31719@iucha.net> On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 09:31:14PM -0600, Dave Carlson wrote: > On Wednesday 09 March 2005 20:03, Mike Miller wrote: > > I really want to hear from the people who say they run Linux without GNU - > > where do you get the programs to replace ls, cp, mv, rm, mkdir, etc.? > > What do you use instead? > > For starters, you can run busybox. Busybox does: [snip] > so, _theoretically_ you could compile the linux kernel, uClibc, and busybox. > You'd have a GNU-less system (although the build system would still have > GNU). However, you don't have support for anything 'fancy' like a graphical > system, general linux-binary compatibility, fancy threads, etc. You could > have just installed BSD if you were that sour about GNU :) (* runs back in > panic room *) http://www.busybox.net/about.html says BusyBox is maintained by Erik Andersen, and licensed under the GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE So not GNU (on the surface, it might contain GNU code), but at least influenced by GNU. > -- > -dave > > Dave Carlson Let's stop here. Please. florin -- Don't question authority: they don't know either! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050309/30e42576/attachment.pgp From kfuchs at winternet.com Wed Mar 9 21:54:06 2005 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Wed Mar 9 21:57:21 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <20050309164939.GD59780@therub.org> (message from Dan Rue on Wed, 9 Mar 2005 10:49:39 -0600) References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> <5bab831e05030908304a3cceb6@mail.gmail.com> <20050309164939.GD59780@therub.org> Message-ID: <200503100354.j2A3s6C29916@ecstasy1.winternet.com> Dan Rue wrote: >On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 10:30:28AM -0600, Chris Smith wrote: >> the Guh-Nome part i was pretty sure about, though that is helpful. >> >> I remember reading about it in some Linux mag. Stallman basically said >> anything starting with gnu should be GUH-NU-whatever. >> hard to do though, espcially around casual linux users... they look at >> you funny, and you feel compelled to explain, and then you end up >> looking like a bit of jerk.. (at least i seem to...) >> >> Oh, and Suse,,, that one is like Dr. Suess, not Suzy.... since we are >> expanding the list. >I personally think that in the spirit of open source and >there's-more-than-one-way-to-do-it, pronunciation should be an open >sport. Nobody cares what Stallman says, anyway (ain't no way i'm saying >Guh-Nome). "Nobody cares what Stallman says" is equivalent to "Everyone doesn't care what Stallman says". Sorry, Dan, you don't speak for everyone. Some people do care what Stallman says. Stallman and GNU software are the main supporters of free software and in large part the reason open source exists the way it does today. Without Stallman's decades of work and the GNU project there wouldn't be any free software or open source software (at least to the extent and with the freedom that such software exists today). Dan, your phonetic spelling of GNOME looks good to me. Is it really that hard to pronounce or too funny sounding. How do you pronounce GNU? GUH-NU? Or do you pronounce it with the G silent? GNU is pronounced NU (new) and GNOME is pronounced NOME (as in the northernmost town in Alaska)? The above being said, we are all free to pronounce words (technical or not) the way we want, but people that know the correct pronunciation may laugh out loud (or at least silent [G] ly) at our mispronunciation. GNOME is part of the GNU project: http://www.gnome.org/about/ Look at the second paragraph after the title "Free". See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME. I couldn't find gnome.org's own definition of the acronym GNOME. (Did I forget the G in my last google search of NOME, er I mean GNOME?) Can there be any doubt now how GNOME is pronounced? "GNU Network Object Model Environment" or GUH-NOME Well, at least Stallman says so and GNU can be said to be his project and GNOME is part of the GNU project. So the correct pronunciation of GNOME is reasonably clear. Just be glad that Stallman doesn't insist that GNOME be pronounced GUH-NU-NOME rather than the current GUH-NOME. Next time someone asks me to pronounce Linux, I'll say UNIX. Note, that Linux Torvalds says Linux can be pronounced anyway you want. However, The Open Group may insist that I say "UNIX Trademark". Ok, GUH-NU-LEE-NUCKS then. Now that I'm on a roll or a tangent, can we change GNU/Linux to Gnux (pronounced GUH-NUCKS) as GNU/Linux is a bit long? My intent was to add a touch of humour while making my point. Please let me know if I succeeded or simply wasted your time and mine. GNUcerely, Ken Fuchs P.S. BTW, SUSE is still pronounced SUE-SA, unless Novell has recently changed it's pronunciation from the orginal German to English. From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Mar 9 21:57:23 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed Mar 9 22:01:21 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux without GNU? How? In-Reply-To: <200503092131.16941.dave@math.umn.edu> References: <200503092131.16941.dave@math.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Dave Carlson wrote: > On Wednesday 09 March 2005 20:03, Mike Miller wrote: >> I really want to hear from the people who say they run Linux without GNU - >> where do you get the programs to replace ls, cp, mv, rm, mkdir, etc.? >> What do you use instead? > > For starters, you can run busybox. That's interesting. I hadn't heard of it before. I guess the point of it is to make a very small system that will work inside little devices. Did they write it from scratch or did they use GNU code? It definitely has a very GNUish origin because it is GPL'd and Bruce Perens wrote it for the Debian project: http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT6143283999.html Thanks for the tip. Mike From tanner at real-time.com Wed Mar 9 22:03:42 2005 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Wed Mar 9 22:07:22 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Server went down hard -- need advice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200503092203.43142@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com> On Wednesday 09 March 2005 04:22 pm, Tim Wilson wrote: > Checking root file system... > ./rcS: line 243: ? 328 Segmentation fault ? ? ? fsck $spinner $force $fix > -t $roottype $rootdev Googling for 'Segmentation fault fsck' show many problem trees. https://www.redhat.com/archives/blinux-list/1998-June/msg00047.html That similar to what you are seeing? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 From tanner at real-time.com Wed Mar 9 22:07:41 2005 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Wed Mar 9 22:11:21 2005 Subject: Fwd: Re: [tclug-list] Portability of private server-side SSH keys? Message-ID: <200503092207.42591@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com> On Wednesday 09 March 2005 12:28 pm, Shawn Fertch wrote: > On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 20:38:44 -0600, John Reese wrote: > > My company will replace a server running RH 7.2 with a box running RH 9. > > Out of curiosity, why continue to use SSH1? It has a well-known exploit. ssh1, why upgrade from an unsupported, deprecated release of redhat to -another- unsupported and deprecated release of redhat? http://www.webservertalk.com/message948057-1.html Will solve your problem. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Mar 9 22:11:25 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed Mar 9 22:15:22 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux isn't UNIX? Still? Message-ID: Last time I checked, the only thing I could find separating Linux from UNIX was the free availability of a compression algorithm and some fees. I'm not 100% sure of that, but that was my interpretation at the time. I believe the compression algorithm patent has expired and the UNIX-compatible compress program is available with Linux now. So, GNU's Not UNIX, but is Linux UNIX? Why or why not? Mike From kfuchs at winternet.com Wed Mar 9 23:34:03 2005 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Wed Mar 9 23:37:22 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: (message from Mike Miller on Wed, 9 Mar 2005 12:46:35 -0600 (CST)) References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> <20050309182819.GA31310@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <200503100534.j2A5Y3I30886@ecstasy1.winternet.com> >On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Dave Sherohman wrote: >> Then again, Stallman's advocated for "Linux" starting with an invisible >> (but decidedly not silent...) "GNU", but that doesn't seem to have >> caught on. (Thankfully.) Mike Miller wrote: >It doesn't predominate, but I've heard it fairly often. I must confess, I do pronounce "Linux" as GUH-NU-LEE-NUCKS. However, when GNU/Linux is written "Linux", I always assumed the GNU was omitted by accident or ignorance. (I like invisible letters even less than silent ones.) The Debian project both writes and pronounces "Linux" as "GNU/Linux". The only time when one should not say "GNU/Linux" is when one is referring to the Linux kernel itself, where the term "GNU/Linux" would not really apply even though the Linux kernel is built using GNU tools. The Linux kernel is the only thing in GNU/Linux that is 100% Linux and everything else in GNU/Linux is 0% Linux. >Linux would not have existed if it weren't for GNU and the GPL. I can >understand why Stallman feels a bit ripped off when he started the ball >rolling and Torvalds is getting most of the attention. Torvald's >contribution looks a lot smaller to me than Stallman's. I agree with Mike 100%. Don't forget that Stallman was already creating free software when Torvalds was still in diapers. On the other hand, the GNU project did drop the ball by delaying the creation of their kernel, known as the Hurd and its still not production quality from what I've heard. Check out the Debian/Hurd: http://www.debian.org/ports/hurd/. Sincerely, Ken Fuchs From nate at refried.org Wed Mar 9 23:46:15 2005 From: nate at refried.org (Nate Straz) Date: Wed Mar 9 23:49:23 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux isn't UNIX? Still? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050310054615.GA14775@refried.org> On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 10:11:25PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote: > So, GNU's Not UNIX, but is Linux UNIX? Why or why not? I see you haven't been paying any attention to the SCO vs IBM fiasco. Perhaps you need to read up on Groklaw. Nate From poptix at poptix.net Wed Mar 9 23:30:44 2005 From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Wed Mar 9 23:53:29 2005 Subject: GNU, Stallman, and Linux was Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: References: <20050310005602.GI10682@momentum.poptix.net> Message-ID: <20050310053044.GJ10682@momentum.poptix.net> On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 07:09:32PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote: > > That is barely credible. You don't have ls, pwd, grep? None of those? > Why would you want a system devoid of such tools? > > Mike They're embedded linux systems with no userspace, settings are hardcoded into the kernel. Meant to do their job and be secure. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From poptix at poptix.net Wed Mar 9 23:51:58 2005 From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Wed Mar 9 23:56:45 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <200503100534.j2A5Y3I30886@ecstasy1.winternet.com> References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> <20050309182819.GA31310@sherohman.org> <200503100534.j2A5Y3I30886@ecstasy1.winternet.com> Message-ID: <20050310055158.GL10682@momentum.poptix.net> On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 11:34:03PM -0600, Ken Fuchs wrote: > > I must confess, I do pronounce "Linux" as GUH-NU-LEE-NUCKS. However, > when GNU/Linux is written "Linux", I always assumed the GNU was omitted > by accident or ignorance. (I like invisible letters even less than > silent ones.) Then why are 'Apache Foundation', 'BSD', and the various other major contributors silent? > The Debian project both writes and pronounces "Linux" as "GNU/Linux". Yes, another bit of Debian zealotry that annoys me. Step (1) after logging into new debian system: echo > /etc/issue; echo > /etc/issue.net If you aren't going to give credit where it's due, don't try to give it at all. Has anyone considered that *GNU* wouldn't be much of anywhere without Linux? -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From kfuchs at winternet.com Thu Mar 10 00:07:22 2005 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Thu Mar 10 00:11:24 2005 Subject: GNU, Stallman, and Linux was Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: (troy.johnson@health.state.mn.us) References: Message-ID: <200503100607.j2A67MA31300@ecstasy1.winternet.com> >>Linux "GNU/Linux" instead of simply "Linux." >Or if I called my Solaris install GNU Solaris because >I use so much GNU software there. Or if I called my >Windows install GNU Windows for the same reason. Calling Solaris GNU/Solaris because one has loaded a few GNU programs on the system is silly, because none of those GNU programs are critical to the operation of Solaris. Same reasoning regarding GNU/MS Windows. Furthermore, no GNU software is used to build MS Windows and this is also true of building Solaris. Calling GNU/Linux GNU/Linux makes perfect sense since there is a symbiotic relationship between (at least the core) GNU software and the Linux kernel. But, the relationship isn't equal. The Linux kernel can't be build nor even run without GNU software. I'm not aware of any complete replacement of GNU software in a GNU/Linux system that results in a working system. However, the Linux kernel in a GNU/Linux system can be replaced with Hurd and possibly other kernels. Of course there is the possibility of replacing the xBSD kernel of an xBSD system with the Linux kernel, but I don't believe anyone is seriously considering it. >But I'm not going to do that. If PR is so important to >him he should chuck the GPL and use a modified >BSD license instead. > >>I'm not going to argue about this because it isn't important to me, but I > >>just want to say that I think it isn't foolish to tack a 'GNU' on the >>front of Linux. > >Good, but I think it is foolish to expect me to do that. >We disagree, and that is OK. OK, try "GNU system" or just GNU. The Linux kernel although a critical part of the total system is rather small in comparison to all the GNU software that in included in a GNU/Linux. Sincerely, Ken Fuchs From seg at haxxed.com Wed Mar 9 23:14:02 2005 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Thu Mar 10 00:21:24 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux without GNU? How? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1110431642.13489.6.camel@bigtime> On Wed, 2005-03-09 at 20:03 -0600, Mike Miller wrote: > I really want to hear from the people who say they run Linux without GNU - > where do you get the programs to replace ls, cp, mv, rm, mkdir, etc.? > What do you use instead? David "orc" Parsons, one of the oldest, crustiest Unix guru's I've ever seen, has a Linux distribution called "Mastodon", which is based on Linux kernel 2.6, libc 4, a.out, and a BSD userspace. Figure that one out. http://gehenna.pell.portland.or.us/~orc/Mastodon/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050309/ba9cd0da/attachment.pgp From dave at math.umn.edu Thu Mar 10 00:35:32 2005 From: dave at math.umn.edu (Dave Carlson) Date: Thu Mar 10 00:39:23 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <20050310055158.GL10682@momentum.poptix.net> References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <200503100534.j2A5Y3I30886@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <20050310055158.GL10682@momentum.poptix.net> Message-ID: <200503100035.35772.dave@math.umn.edu> On Wednesday 09 March 2005 23:51, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > Then why are 'Apache Foundation', 'BSD', and the various other major > contributors silent? DOS filename limitations: 'GNULINUX.BIN' > > The Debian project both writes and pronounces "Linux" as "GNU/Linux". > > Yes, another bit of Debian zealotry that annoys me. Because clearly your brand of zealotry is correct. > Step (1) after logging into new debian system: > echo > /etc/issue; echo > /etc/issue.net > > If you aren't going to give credit where it's due, don't try to give > it at all. How does adding 'GNU/' _reduce_ the credit given to the kernel? Seriously, did emacs traumatize you at some point? > Has anyone considered that *GNU* wouldn't be much of anywhere without > Linux? Yeah - GNU has. They were in the process of writing a kernel when Linux came along: "The initial goal of a free Unix-like operating system has been achieved. By the 1990s, we had either found or written all the major components except one--the kernel. Then Linux, a free kernel, was developed by Linus Torvalds." Were Linux not released - (IMO) in this alternate universe, kernel hackers would eventually form around GNU or ast, and a free kernel would be released. -- -dave Dave Carlson Systems Administrator School of Mathematics, University of Minnesota http://www.math.umn.edu PGP/GPG Fingerprint: C3D0 9962 1E98 B742 132D 0E1A CE11 7C4B 5309 97A7 (visit http://www.gnupg.org for more information) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050310/20c5270d/attachment.pgp From joel at joelschneider.net Wed Mar 9 18:42:43 2005 From: joel at joelschneider.net (Joel Schneider) Date: Thu Mar 10 01:03:23 2005 Subject: GNU, Stallman, and Linux was Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: References: <4a0cafe2050309155055e4b6d@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205030915573c37523a@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe2050309173946301463@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050310004243.GG29127@joelschneider.net> On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 08:02:23PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote: > Linus Torvalds wrote: > > http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/Historic/old-versions/RELNOTES-0.01 The release notes indicate that the linux 0.01 is closely related to MINIX. Has Andrew Tanenbaum ever suggested that it should be called MINIX/Linux instead of just Linux? -- Joel Schneider joel@joelschneider.net From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Thu Mar 10 01:01:41 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Thu Mar 10 01:05:31 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <20050310055158.GL10682@momentum.poptix.net> References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> <20050309182819.GA31310@sherohman.org> <200503100534.j2A5Y3I30886@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <20050310055158.GL10682@momentum.poptix.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > Has anyone considered that *GNU* wouldn't be much of anywhere without > Linux? As someone else pointed out, you can run GNU under Solaris or Windows. I have been running it under Solaris (was SunOS) since before Linux existed. So I don't agree with you on that one eithr. Mike From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Thu Mar 10 01:08:47 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Thu Mar 10 01:11:23 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <200503100035.35772.dave@math.umn.edu> References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <200503100534.j2A5Y3I30886@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <20050310055158.GL10682@momentum.poptix.net> <200503100035.35772.dave@math.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Mar 2005, Dave Carlson wrote: >> Has anyone considered that *GNU* wouldn't be much of anywhere without >> Linux? > > Yeah - GNU has. They were in the process of writing a kernel when Linux > came along: > > "The initial goal of a free Unix-like operating system has been > achieved. By the 1990s, we had either found or written all the major > components except one--the kernel. Then Linux, a free kernel, was > developed by Linus Torvalds." > > Were Linux not released - (IMO) in this alternate universe, kernel > hackers would eventually form around GNU or ast, and a free kernel would > be released. There is GNU Hurd, but I'm sure that project was slowed because of interest in getting the Linux kernel working well with GNU software. I notice that none of the GNU antagonists had a response to Torvald's own words on the topic when I posted them earlier today: Sadly, a kernel by itself gets you nowhere. To get a working system you need a shell, compilers, a library etc. ... Most of the tools used with linux are GNU software and are under the GNU copyleft. That was from his first release of Linux (0.01). Mike From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Thu Mar 10 01:11:26 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Thu Mar 10 01:14:58 2005 Subject: GNU, Stallman, and Linux was Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <20050310004243.GG29127@joelschneider.net> References: <4a0cafe2050309155055e4b6d@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205030915573c37523a@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe2050309173946301463@mail.gmail.com> <20050310004243.GG29127@joelschneider.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Joel Schneider wrote: > The release notes indicate that the linux 0.01 is closely related to > MINIX. Has Andrew Tanenbaum ever suggested that it should be called > MINIX/Linux instead of just Linux? It contains no MINIX code. Linux is not distributed with MINIX. Linux sounds like MINIX for a reason. I think the name was sufficient homage to MINIX. Mike From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Thu Mar 10 01:24:39 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Thu Mar 10 01:27:24 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux isn't UNIX? Still? In-Reply-To: <20050310054615.GA14775@refried.org> References: <20050310054615.GA14775@refried.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Nate Straz wrote: > On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 10:11:25PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote: >> So, GNU's Not UNIX, but is Linux UNIX? Why or why not? > > I see you haven't been paying any attention to the SCO vs IBM fiasco. > Perhaps you need to read up on Groklaw. I have read about that suit, but maybe I didn't understand it. The suit was about UNIX code that belonged to SCO getting into the Linux kernel. They may have been lying. How does this relate to the question of whether Linux would meet the criteria for a UNIX operating system? Is UNIX defined by particular lines of code, or is it defined by functionalty? I suppose the answers are all here somewhere... http://www.unix.org/ Mike From esper at sherohman.org Thu Mar 10 01:28:31 2005 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Thu Mar 10 01:34:16 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <200503100534.j2A5Y3I30886@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <20050310055158.GL10682@momentum.poptix.net> <200503100035.35772.dave@math.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20050310072831.GG24790@sherohman.org> On Thu, Mar 10, 2005 at 01:08:47AM -0600, Mike Miller wrote: > I notice that none of the GNU antagonists had a response to Torvald's own > words on the topic when I posted them earlier today: > > Sadly, a kernel by itself gets you nowhere. To get a working system you > need a shell, compilers, a library etc. ... Most of the tools used with > linux are GNU software and are under the GNU copyleft. I'll agree that GNU/Linux is "correct" (because Linux is built using GNU tools) the day that car lots start selling Craftsman/Fords (because Fords are built using Craftsman[1] tools). Alternately, I'll agree that GNU/Linux is "correct" (because Linux is useless without software which is largely provided by GNU) the day that car lots start selling OPEC/Fords (because Fords are useless without oil which is largely provided by OPEC). Or, if you don't like computer/car analogies, I suppose we could try telling Dell that they have to call their products Intel/Dell. And O'Reilly should change its name to Hammermill/O'Reilly. I can't figure out, though, whether it would be more appropriate for World of Warcraft (and every other piece of Win32 software out there) to become Microsoft/World of Warcraft or Windows/World of Warcraft... [1] Having never worked at a Ford plant, I probably have the wrong brand of tools here. Feel free to replace "Craftsman" with the correct brand if you happen to know what it is. -- The freedoms that we enjoy presently are the most important victories of the White Hats over the past several millennia, and it is vitally important that we don't give them up now, only because we are frightened. - Eolake Stobblehouse (http://stobblehouse.com/text/battle.html) From esper at sherohman.org Thu Mar 10 01:32:49 2005 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Thu Mar 10 01:36:19 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <200503100354.j2A3s6C29916@ecstasy1.winternet.com> References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> <5bab831e05030908304a3cceb6@mail.gmail.com> <20050309164939.GD59780@therub.org> <200503100354.j2A3s6C29916@ecstasy1.winternet.com> Message-ID: <20050310073249.GH24790@sherohman.org> On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 09:54:06PM -0600, Ken Fuchs wrote: > Now that I'm on a roll or a tangent, can we change GNU/Linux to Gnux > (pronounced GUH-NUCKS) as GNU/Linux is a bit long? Back when Stallman's GNU/Linux crusade was just getting started, I seem to recall seeing a claim that he had originally tried for "LiGNUx", but I have no idea whether there's any truth behind it or not. (The favored pronunciation of "LiGNUx" seemed to be "lug nuts"...) -- The freedoms that we enjoy presently are the most important victories of the White Hats over the past several millennia, and it is vitally important that we don't give them up now, only because we are frightened. - Eolake Stobblehouse (http://stobblehouse.com/text/battle.html) From esper at sherohman.org Thu Mar 10 01:40:06 2005 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Thu Mar 10 01:43:25 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux without GNU? How? In-Reply-To: <20050310033922.GD31719@iucha.net> References: <200503092131.16941.dave@math.umn.edu> <20050310033922.GD31719@iucha.net> Message-ID: <20050310074006.GI24790@sherohman.org> On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 09:39:23PM -0600, Florin Iucha wrote: > http://www.busybox.net/about.html says > BusyBox is maintained by Erik Andersen, and licensed under the GNU > GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE > > So not GNU (on the surface, it might contain GNU code), but at least > influenced by GNU. Not really relevant, is it? I've written code that has been under GPL (both personal and work projects), but is not a part of the GNU project, contains no code (knowingly) derived from any GNU code, and basically has no connection to or influence from GNU at all on a technical level. Saying it must be GNU-influenced because it uses GPL is like saying that a book (or program) is based on the government's work because it has a copyright notice. -- The freedoms that we enjoy presently are the most important victories of the White Hats over the past several millennia, and it is vitally important that we don't give them up now, only because we are frightened. - Eolake Stobblehouse (http://stobblehouse.com/text/battle.html) From poptix at poptix.net Thu Mar 10 01:48:44 2005 From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Thu Mar 10 01:51:23 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <20050310073249.GH24790@sherohman.org> References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> <5bab831e05030908304a3cceb6@mail.gmail.com> <20050309164939.GD59780@therub.org> <200503100354.j2A3s6C29916@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <20050310073249.GH24790@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20050310074844.GM10682@momentum.poptix.net> On Thu, Mar 10, 2005 at 01:32:49AM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: > On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 09:54:06PM -0600, Ken Fuchs wrote: > > Now that I'm on a roll or a tangent, can we change GNU/Linux to Gnux > > (pronounced GUH-NUCKS) as GNU/Linux is a bit long? > > Back when Stallman's GNU/Linux crusade was just getting started, I > seem to recall seeing a claim that he had originally tried for > "LiGNUx", but I have no idea whether there's any truth behind it or > not. (The favored pronunciation of "LiGNUx" seemed to be "lug > nuts"...) Interesting, I hadn't heard this before. Some searching on google groups turned up some good links, unfortunately even those usenet archives are not old enough (all the references seem to refer to a much older discussion) -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From poptix at poptix.net Thu Mar 10 02:08:47 2005 From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Thu Mar 10 02:11:24 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <20050310074844.GM10682@momentum.poptix.net> References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> <5bab831e05030908304a3cceb6@mail.gmail.com> <20050309164939.GD59780@therub.org> <200503100354.j2A3s6C29916@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <20050310073249.GH24790@sherohman.org> <20050310074844.GM10682@momentum.poptix.net> Message-ID: <20050310080847.GN10682@momentum.poptix.net> Ahhh, replying to my own post. Original text from 1996 follows: : Linux and the GNU system : : The GNU project started 12 years ago with the goal of developing a : complete free Unix-like operating system. "Free" refers to freedom, : not price; it means you are free to run, copy, distribute, study, : change, and improve the software. : : A Unix-like system consists of many different programs. We found some : components already available as free software--for example, X Windows : and TeX. We obtained other components by helping to convince their : developers to make them free--for example, the Berkeley network : utilities. Other components we wrote specifically for GNU--for : example, GNU Emacs, the GNU C compiler, the GNU C library, Bash, and : Ghostscript. The components in this last category are "GNU software". : The GNU system consists of all three categories together. : : The GNU project is not just about developing and distributing free : software. The heart of the GNU project is an idea: that software : should be free, and that the users' freedom is worth defending. For : if people have freedom but do not value it, they will not keep it for : long. In order to make freedom last, we have to teach people to value : it. : : The GNU project's method is that free software and the idea of users' : freedom support each other. We develop GNU software, and as people : encounter GNU programs or the GNU system and start to use them, they : also think about the GNU idea. The software shows that the idea can : work in practice. People who come to agree with the idea are likely : to write additional free software. Thus, the software embodies the : idea, spreads the idea, and grows from the idea. : : This method was working well--until someone combined the Linux kernel : with the GNU system (which still lacked a kernel), and called the : combination a "Linux system." : : The Linux kernel is a free Unix-compatible kernel written by Linus : Torvalds. It was not written specifically for the GNU project, but : the Linux kernel and the GNU system work together well. In fact, : adding Linux to the GNU system brought the system to completion: it : made a free Unix-compatible operating system available for use. : : But ironically, the practice of calling it a "Linux system" undermines : our method of communicating the GNU idea. At first impression, a : "Linux system" sounds like something completely distinct from the "GNU : system." And that is what most users think it is. : : Most introductions to the "Linux system" acknowledge the role played : by the GNU software components. But they don't say that the system as : a whole is more or less the same GNU system that the GNU project has : been compiling for a decade. They don't say that the idea of a free : Unix-like system originates from the GNU project. So most users don't : know these things. : : This leads many of those users to identify themselves as a separate : community of "Linux users", distinct from the GNU user community. : They use all of the GNU software; in fact, they use almost all of the : GNU system; but they don't think of themselves as GNU users, and they : may not think about the GNU idea. : : It leads to other problems as well--even hampering cooperation on : software maintenance. Normally when users change a GNU program to : make it work better on a particular system, they send the change to : the maintainer of that program; then they work with the maintainer, : explaining the change, arguing for it and sometimes rewriting it, to : get it installed. : : But people who think of themselves as "Linux users" are more likely to : release a forked "Linux-only" version of the GNU program, and consider : the job done. We want each and every GNU program to work "out of the : box" on Linux-based systems; but if the users do not help, that goal : becomes much harder to achieve. : : So how should the GNU project respond? What should we do now to : spread the idea that freedom for computer users is important? : : We should continue to talk about the freedom to share and change : software--and to teach other users to value these freedoms. If we : enjoy having a free operating system, it makes sense for us to think : about preserving those freedoms for the long term. If we enjoy having : a variety of free software, it makes sense for to think about : encouraging others to write additional free software, instead of : additional proprietary software. : : We should not accept the splitting of the community in two. Instead : we should spread the word that "Linux systems" are variant GNU : systems--that users of these systems are GNU users, and that they : ought to consider the GNU philosophy which brought these systems into : existence. : : This article is one way of doing that. Another way is to use the : terms "Linux-based GNU system" (or "GNU/Linux system" or "Lignux" for : short) to refer to the combination of the Linux kernel and the GNU : system. : : Copyright 1996 Richard Stallman : Verbatim copying and redistribution is permitted : without royalty as long as this notice is preserved. *looks to see if mn-lignux.org is still available* -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From florin at iucha.net Thu Mar 10 02:13:18 2005 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Thu Mar 10 02:19:24 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux without GNU? How? In-Reply-To: <20050310074006.GI24790@sherohman.org> References: <200503092131.16941.dave@math.umn.edu> <20050310033922.GD31719@iucha.net> <20050310074006.GI24790@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20050310081318.GA14365@iucha.net> On Thu, Mar 10, 2005 at 01:40:06AM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: > On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 09:39:23PM -0600, Florin Iucha wrote: > > http://www.busybox.net/about.html says > > BusyBox is maintained by Erik Andersen, and licensed under the GNU > > GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE > > > > So not GNU (on the surface, it might contain GNU code), but at least > > influenced by GNU. > > Not really relevant, is it? I've written code that has been under > GPL (both personal and work projects), but is not a part of the GNU > project, contains no code (knowingly) derived from any GNU code, and > basically has no connection to or influence from GNU at all on a > technical level. And you chose the GNU license based on... what? Cute mascot? Amiable leader? > Saying it must be GNU-influenced because it uses > GPL is like saying that a book (or program) is based on the > government's work because it has a copyright notice. It uses GPL because you were influenced by their ideas, philosophy and tools, or you just felt you need to give something back without knowing why. This has nothing to do with hard "intellectual property" statements like "linked to", "derived from". florin -- Don't question authority: they don't know either! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050310/c3186576/attachment.pgp From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Thu Mar 10 07:06:28 2005 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Thu Mar 10 07:09:27 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> <20050309182819.GA31310@sherohman.org> <422F482B.8070407@visi.com> <20050309191912.GC31310@sherohman.org> <20050309133359.A198@baker.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20050310070628.A2212@baker.space.umn.edu> On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 01:55:48PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote: > On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Jim Crumley wrote: > > >ssh - "ess ess aitch" (spell it out) > >vi - "vee eye" or "vie" > >Linux - "LIE nucks", though I am starting to say "lih nucks" > > LIH nuhks - a good American approximation. Linus actually pronounces it > a bit more like LEE nooks, but he has an accent! ;-) Part of the reason that I don't buy "lih nucks" is that Linus does have an accent in the classic recording of him saying Linux. > LIE nucks, though accepted, is not really correct. I realize that its not the accepted version and I am trying to convert myself to the more accepted version. The argument (which I know has been lost by this point) is that Linux is based on Linus which in English is pronounced "LIE nus", so the pronunciation should be "LIE nucks". Following the English pronunciation seems to be the typcial method for pronouncing words in English that are based on names. Einsteinium is pronounced in Engish the way that Einstein is pronounced in English, not the way Einstein is pronounced in German. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons | From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Thu Mar 10 07:24:31 2005 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Thu Mar 10 07:27:28 2005 Subject: GNU, Stallman, and Linux was Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions Message-ID: Whatever. I really don't buy it. It is silly. Can we call it C/GNU/Linux at K&R's request? Ahahahahahahahahahaha! From jima at beer.tclug.org Thu Mar 10 07:52:08 2005 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Thu Mar 10 07:55:28 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] pronunciation, GNU/Linux, et cetera Message-ID: Am I the only one who finds this to be one of the most drawn-out, pointless flamewars in TCLUG history? People seem to be taking the argument as a personal affront. Sheesh. And people call me pedantic. Jima From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Thu Mar 10 08:04:09 2005 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Thu Mar 10 08:07:27 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] pronunciation, GNU/Linux, et cetera Message-ID: Yeah. Sorry for stirring this pot. :-( >>> Jima 03/10/05 7:52 AM >>> Am I the only one who finds this to be one of the most drawn-out, pointless flamewars in TCLUG history? People seem to be taking the argument as a personal affront. Sheesh. And people call me pedantic. Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list@mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org Thu Mar 10 08:09:48 2005 From: jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org (Joseph Key) Date: Thu Mar 10 08:13:28 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Auto-logout in slackware 10 In-Reply-To: <20050307152605.000073d8@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> Message-ID: <000001c5257a$d2320b20$0439a8c0@Kurama> -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Josh Trutwin Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 3:26 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [tclug-list] Auto-logout in slackware 10 This seems so simple, but I cannot figure out what is controlling the automagic logout from an SSH session to a new Slackware 10 box. I don't have this problem in any other distros except for my two slackware boxes. Seems to automatically log me out after 30 minutes of inactivity. The accounts don't have a .login or .cshrc and I've grepped /etc for "auto" and "logout" without finding anything interesting. Any Slackers out there know what's causing this? Thanks, Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list@mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ------End of Original Message--- I have two slackware 10 systems that I sometimes keep a putty/ssh session up for several days. Have you tried enabling keep alive packets to see if that stops the auto-logout? Joseph Key From nate at refried.org Thu Mar 10 08:16:58 2005 From: nate at refried.org (Nate Straz) Date: Thu Mar 10 08:19:29 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux isn't UNIX? Still? In-Reply-To: References: <20050310054615.GA14775@refried.org> Message-ID: <20050310141658.GB14775@refried.org> On Thu, Mar 10, 2005 at 01:24:39AM -0600, Mike Miller wrote: > On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Nate Straz wrote: > >On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 10:11:25PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote: > >>So, GNU's Not UNIX, but is Linux UNIX? Why or why not? > > > >I see you haven't been paying any attention to the SCO vs IBM fiasco. > >Perhaps you need to read up on Groklaw. > > I have read about that suit, but maybe I didn't understand it. The suit > was about UNIX code that belonged to SCO getting into the Linux kernel. > They may have been lying. How does this relate to the question of whether > Linux would meet the criteria for a UNIX operating system? Is UNIX > defined by particular lines of code, or is it defined by functionalty? UNIX is defined by the code it was derrived from. All UNIX flavors[1] started from the same code base. Linux was started from scratch, thus it's not really UNIX, just UNIX-like. SCO is trying to prove that some of the code in Linux came from "their" UNIX codebase. Nate [1] Solaris, AIX, IRIX, HP/UX, etc From sfertch at gmail.com Thu Mar 10 08:37:15 2005 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Thu Mar 10 08:41:28 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Auto-logout in slackware 10 In-Reply-To: <000001c5257a$d2320b20$0439a8c0@Kurama> References: <20050307152605.000073d8@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <000001c5257a$d2320b20$0439a8c0@Kurama> Message-ID: <67f3084a05031006375c87a075@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 08:09:48 -0600, Joseph Key wrote: > I have two slackware 10 systems that I sometimes keep a putty/ssh session up > for several days. Have you tried enabling keep alive packets to see if that > stops the auto-logout? > I was going to address this yesterday with the same suggestion, but got sidetracked. You could also modify the config files (/etc/ssh/ssh_config &/or /etc/ssh/sshd_config ) to enable keep alive. However, that may pose a security risk. I prefer the keep alive options off. -- -Shawn -Nemo me impune lacessit. Ne Obliviscaris.. From wilson at visi.com Thu Mar 10 08:38:22 2005 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Thu Mar 10 08:41:35 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Server went down hard -- need advice In-Reply-To: <200503092203.43142@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com> Message-ID: On 3/9/05 10:03 PM, "Bob Tanner" wrote: > Googling for 'Segmentation fault fsck' show many problem trees. > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/blinux-list/1998-June/msg00047.html > > That similar to what you are seeing? Looks similar, but I think we're hosed anyway. I managed to boot off of a rescue CD and fsck everything. Despite coming back clean from fsck, the system still segfaults. Luckily I can mount the partitions manually and we should be able to pull everything off the system without too much trouble. I'm having trouble getting a couple of the server's daemons running though. Postgres came up fine so I did a dump of all the current databases. (That's just to prevent losing the transactions from yesterday that occurred after the nightly backup.) But we also have some MySQL DBs on the system. I'd like to do the same, but I can't get MySQL started. It fails silently and simply says to check the syslog. There's no help in there that I can see. Any suggestions? Would there be another daemon that needs to be started before mysqld can run? BTW, this is a Dell 1750 running Debian. -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 blog: http://technosavvy.org/ From chewie at wookimus.net Thu Mar 10 08:41:10 2005 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Thu Mar 10 08:49:29 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <20050310070628.A2212@baker.space.umn.edu> References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> <20050309182819.GA31310@sherohman.org> <422F482B.8070407@visi.com> <20050309191912.GC31310@sherohman.org> <20050309133359.A198@baker.space.umn.edu> <20050310070628.A2212@baker.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20050310144110.GA19967@wookimus.net> On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 01:55:48PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote: > LIH nuhks - a good American approximation. Linus actually pronounces > it a bit more like LEE nooks, but he has an accent! ;-) And that's what's important, isn't it? Whenever I talk about Linus Torvalds, I pronounce his name the way he would: Lee nus. Thus, I also try to pronounce Linux as he would: lee nux, though I don't always remember. Jim Crumley wrote: > Part of the reason that I don't buy "lih nucks" is that Linus does > have an accent in the classic recording of him saying Linux. Exactly. > I realize that its not the accepted version and I am trying to convert > myself to the more accepted version. The argument (which I know has > been lost by this point) is that Linux is based on Linus which in > English is pronounced "LIE nus", so the pronunciation should be "LIE > nucks". Following the English pronunciation seems to be the typcial > method for pronouncing words in English that are based on names. This I certainly don't buy. Just because you're speaking $LANGUAGE_A doesn't mean you have the right to butcher the pronunciation of a proper name that originates in $LANGUAGE_B. The fact that rampant mispronunciation is common American English also does not equate to "correct". It equates to disrespect, or at best naivete. > Einsteinium is pronounced in Engish the way that Einstein is > pronounced in English, not the way Einstein is pronounced in German. Again, this doesn't make it correct. However, let's examine this example a little closer. Your argument that when speaking American English, one should butcher pronunciation, Einstein should be pronounced "een steen", not "ine stine", which is in fact closer to German than you're claiming. To give it German flair, you might pronounce it as "ine shtine". Not a very large departure from the original language of the proper noun, if you ask me. In any case, I suggest we drop this thread. To help out, I shall mention another German word that should officially kill it: Nazi!!! -- Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050310/ec1861bd/attachment.pgp From florin at iucha.net Thu Mar 10 08:49:03 2005 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Thu Mar 10 08:53:08 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] How to configure dhcp server to advertise gateways for multiple subnetworks? Message-ID: <20050310144903.GC14365@iucha.net> Hello, I have two subnetworks (10.10.0.0 - 100 Mbit and 10.0.0.0 - Gigabit) separated by a linux server that acts as a router. I am running dhcpd3 on the router, but I have a problem with the configuration. In the section for the gigabit network I set 10.0.0.1 as the gateway, and in the 100 mbit network I set 10.10.0.129 as the gateway (which is the lan address of the dsl router). All works fine, except how do I automatically tell dynamic clients that connect on the 100 mbit network that 10.10.0.1 is a gateway for the 10.0.0.0 network? If I just add 10.10.0.1 to "option routers" but that is only for "default" gateways. I did not test with a Linux client yet, but windows (on the 100 mbit network) accepts the second default gateway, but does not create a route. I have to manually add route add 10.0.0.0 mask 255.255.255.0 10.10.0.1 Thank you, florin -- Don't question authority: they don't know either! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050310/150d0c4d/attachment-0001.pgp From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Thu Mar 10 08:48:29 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Thu Mar 10 08:53:13 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <20050310072831.GG24790@sherohman.org> References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <200503100534.j2A5Y3I30886@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <20050310055158.GL10682@momentum.poptix.net> <200503100035.35772.dave@math.umn.edu> <20050310072831.GG24790@sherohman.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Mar 2005, Dave Sherohman wrote: > I'll agree that GNU/Linux is "correct" (because Linux is built using GNU > tools) the day that car lots start selling Craftsman/Fords (because > Fords are built using Craftsman[1] tools). > > Alternately, I'll agree that GNU/Linux is "correct" (because Linux is > useless without software which is largely provided by GNU) the day that > car lots start selling OPEC/Fords (because Fords are useless without oil > which is largely provided by OPEC). > > Or, if you don't like computer/car analogies, I suppose we could try > telling Dell that they have to call their products Intel/Dell. I think it's more like buying a Chevy with a Ford engine and insisting that the car be called a Ford because the engine is a Ford engine. The car could easily be called a Chevy because everything but the engine was made by Chevy. Some people think it should be called a Chevy/Ford or a Ford/Chevy. This seems reasonable, but it makes the pro-Ford group very angry for reasons that are impossible to fathom. Then there are some people who drive Ford cars with Ford engines. They think it is completely crazy that they should call their cars Chevy/Fords because there are no Chevy parts in their cars. They are right, but no one is telling them they are wrong, so why are they even talking? Mike From adam at whee.org Thu Mar 10 09:14:24 2005 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Thu Mar 10 09:31:28 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] How to configure dhcp server to advertise gateways for multiple subnetworks? In-Reply-To: <20050310144903.GC14365@iucha.net> References: <20050310144903.GC14365@iucha.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Mar 2005, Florin Iucha wrote: > Hello, > > I have two subnetworks (10.10.0.0 - 100 Mbit and 10.0.0.0 - Gigabit) > separated by a linux server that acts as a router. I am running dhcpd3 > on the router, but I have a problem with the configuration. > IIRC, the protocol supports specifying additional routes for the client to install, but not a netmask, so it defaults to classful. Your route for the 10.0.0.0/24 network would be installed as a /8 in the client. I just checked and I don't even see this option in ISC DHCP3... If this is the case, a workaround would be to set the default gateway on the clients to the Linux router, and let the router reroute the packets to the DSL. Not 100% optimal since the packets go over the same network twice, but you're talking about a DSL line, I don't think it's going to severely impact performance on a 100M LAN. Another option may be to add another NIC to the router and have the router be the real gateway for the DSL. But this may not be an option depending on the rest of your setup. From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Thu Mar 10 09:34:23 2005 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Thu Mar 10 09:37:28 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] pronunciation, GNU/Linux, et cetera In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050310093423.000033f9@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 07:52:08 -0600 (CST) Jima wrote: > Am I the only one who finds this to be one of the most drawn-out, > pointless flamewars in TCLUG history? No. I've more new mail in my TCLUG folder this morning than in both my Spamassassin and MySQL folders. All of it pretty much insta-deletable. (just like this here message I guess). > People seem to be taking the > argument as a personal affront. Sheesh. And people call me > pedantic. I think you meant pediatric. :) Josh From drue at therub.org Thu Mar 10 09:45:54 2005 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Thu Mar 10 09:49:28 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <200503100354.j2A3s6C29916@ecstasy1.winternet.com> References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> <5bab831e05030908304a3cceb6@mail.gmail.com> <20050309164939.GD59780@therub.org> <200503100354.j2A3s6C29916@ecstasy1.winternet.com> Message-ID: <20050310154554.GF59780@therub.org> On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 09:54:06PM -0600, Ken Fuchs wrote: > Dan Rue wrote: > > >On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 10:30:28AM -0600, Chris Smith wrote: > >> the Guh-Nome part i was pretty sure about, though that is helpful. > >> > >> I remember reading about it in some Linux mag. Stallman basically said > >> anything starting with gnu should be GUH-NU-whatever. > >> hard to do though, espcially around casual linux users... they look at > >> you funny, and you feel compelled to explain, and then you end up > >> looking like a bit of jerk.. (at least i seem to...) > >> > >> Oh, and Suse,,, that one is like Dr. Suess, not Suzy.... since we are > >> expanding the list. > > >I personally think that in the spirit of open source and > >there's-more-than-one-way-to-do-it, pronunciation should be an open > >sport. Nobody cares what Stallman says, anyway (ain't no way i'm saying > >Guh-Nome). > > "Nobody cares what Stallman says" is equivalent to > "Everyone doesn't care what Stallman says". > > Sorry, Dan, you don't speak for everyone. Some people do care what > Stallman says. Stallman and GNU software are the main supporters of > free software and in large part the reason open source exists the way > it does today. Without Stallman's decades of work and the GNU project > there wouldn't be any free software or open source software (at least to > the extent and with the freedom that such software exists today). > > Dan, your phonetic spelling of GNOME looks good to me. Is it really > that hard to pronounce or too funny sounding. How do you pronounce GNU? > GUH-NU? Or do you pronounce it with the G silent? GNU is pronounced NU > (new) and GNOME is pronounced NOME (as in the northernmost town in > Alaska)? Ok, I was trying to be light hearted about it. I originally debated whether to qualify my stallman criticism, and just decided against it. Yes Stallman has done a remarkable job for free/oss. Yes we all owe him much. But, that doesn't exempt him from criticism. For what it's worth, I say lin-ucks, G-N-U (i never say guh-nu), nome, v-i - but my favorite thing to say is FreeBSD. And I would never correct someone's pronunciation unless they asked, because I do believe that would be rude and elitist. Dan From dave at math.umn.edu Thu Mar 10 09:47:56 2005 From: dave at math.umn.edu (Dave Carlson) Date: Thu Mar 10 09:55:00 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] pronunciation, GNU/Linux, et cetera In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200503100947.59671.dave@math.umn.edu> On Thursday 10 March 2005 07:52, Jima wrote: > Am I the only one who finds this to be one of the most drawn-out, > pointless flamewars in TCLUG history? People seem to be taking the > argument as a personal affront. Sheesh. And people call me pedantic. Hell yeah it's drawn-out and pointless - I thought that was the point! Seems like every message I post to here seems to get flamed on- or off-list anyway... -- -dave Dave Carlson Systems Administrator School of Mathematics, University of Minnesota http://www.math.umn.edu PGP/GPG Fingerprint: C3D0 9962 1E98 B742 132D 0E1A CE11 7C4B 5309 97A7 (visit http://www.gnupg.org for more information) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050310/d2bca4ff/attachment.pgp From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Thu Mar 10 09:58:49 2005 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Thu Mar 10 10:01:30 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Auto-logout in slackware 10 In-Reply-To: <000001c5257a$d2320b20$0439a8c0@Kurama> References: <20050307152605.000073d8@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <000001c5257a$d2320b20$0439a8c0@Kurama> Message-ID: <20050310095849.000066ca@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 08:09:48 -0600 "Joseph Key" wrote: > I have two slackware 10 systems that I sometimes keep a putty/ssh > session up for several days. Have you tried enabling keep alive > packets to see if that stops the auto-logout? Actually, it's not ssh, I didn't provide enough info in my OP. I always change my default shell to /bin/tcsh out of habit - I guess on slackware the tcsh autologout is not disabled as it seems to be on other distros I've used (SuSE, Debian, etc.). Unsetting this variable does the trick. This must be built into tcsh as a default on slackware as I cannot find anything in /etc or my home dir related to autologout. FWIW, I found a cool project for tcsh lovers when researching this one: http://tcshrc.sourceforge.net/ Now I'll probably start pointless a "best shell" debate. :) Is it Friday yet? I think we all need a beer (me, I need two). Josh From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Thu Mar 10 10:00:06 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Thu Mar 10 10:03:30 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] pronunciation, GNU/Linux, et cetera In-Reply-To: <20050310093423.000033f9@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> References: <20050310093423.000033f9@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 07:52:08 -0600 (CST) Jima wrote: > Am I the only one who finds this to be one of the most drawn-out, > pointless flamewars in TCLUG history? There is some unnecessary repetitiveness and "me too"ness, but I have found the rest of it very informative. It is good to know what the opinions and battle lines are. Some people have shared links to useful resources. We have reviewed some of the history. It wasn't all a waste of time. Mike From wilson at visi.com Thu Mar 10 10:03:34 2005 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Thu Mar 10 10:08:41 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] MySQL migration Message-ID: Hey everyone, I'm still unable to restart mysqld on my server that crashed. I'm afraid that I won't be able to dump the current contents of the database so I can reload it. I do have the contents of /var/lib/mysql which appears to be the raw mysql tables. Is it possible to copy these files, reinstall the system, put those files back, and get a working MySQL system? -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 blog: http://technosavvy.org/ From smac at visi.com Thu Mar 10 10:16:17 2005 From: smac at visi.com (smac@visi.com) Date: Thu Mar 10 10:19:28 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux isn't UNIX? Still? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1110471377.423072d1ca614@my.visi.com> Linux is not UNIX. Linux is the Kernel everything else is a tool added to make the Kernel user-friendly ;-D. Sense pictures are worth 1000 words and most technical people don't have the time it would take to describe shell commands totaling 1,000,000 words a day. X-windows was created to limit the number of questions asked about shell commands so non techies could do work on computers and not cause telephone shell shock for techies. Keep in mind X-windows code is all text :-) X-windows is a tool or a bunch of tools. All that and UNIX was developed buy ATT Labs and Linux was developed by Linus. That and we all know OSS is the most powerful thing on earth >:-) OSS has launched business, conversations, fights, laws, and a lot of stress for M$, SCO, NetWare, and other folks. I can change (it wouldn't work) Linux code. I cannot change UNIX code (it wouldn't work). In the long run, Linux is freedom of expression even if it doesn't work. Where UNIX is a prison that wouldn't work anyway... So Linux and UNIX are not the same. Sam. Quoting Mike Miller : > Last time I checked, the only thing I could find separating Linux from > UNIX was the free availability of a compression algorithm and some fees. > I'm not 100% sure of that, but that was my interpretation at the time. I > believe the compression algorithm patent has expired and the > UNIX-compatible compress program is available with Linux now. > > So, GNU's Not UNIX, but is Linux UNIX? Why or why not? > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From natecars at real-time.com Thu Mar 10 10:14:31 2005 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Thu Mar 10 10:19:34 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] MySQL migration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Mar 2005, Tim Wilson wrote: > I'm still unable to restart mysqld on my server that crashed. I'm afraid > that I won't be able to dump the current contents of the database so I > can reload it. I do have the contents of /var/lib/mysql which appears to > be the raw mysql tables. Is it possible to copy these files, reinstall > the system, put those files back, and get a working MySQL system? Yeah, shouldn't be a problem. Make *very* sure that you have backups of /var/lib/mysql before trying, though, also make sure you know what version the system was on. If your tables are in ISAM format, the 'myisamchk' program is very useful. It allows you to do an offline check of your databases. What's preventing MySQL from starting? -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From adam at whee.org Thu Mar 10 10:03:50 2005 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Thu Mar 10 10:25:29 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] MySQL migration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Mar 2005, Tim Wilson wrote: > I'm still unable to restart mysqld on my server that crashed. I'm afraid > that I won't be able to dump the current contents of the database so I can > reload it. I do have the contents of /var/lib/mysql which appears to be the > raw mysql tables. Is it possible to copy these files, reinstall the system, > put those files back, and get a working MySQL system? Yes, but also take a look at mysqlhotcopy - I know it can take backups with the server down. From ringert at consumption.net Thu Mar 10 10:27:56 2005 From: ringert at consumption.net (Torleiv Flatebo Ringer) Date: Thu Mar 10 10:31:29 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Server went down hard -- need advice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It sounds like you got a few corrupted files that may be system libraries. If you _really_ want to know what is not allowing mysql to start, use strace. bash$ strace -f mysqld &> /tmp/some.file.txt torleiv what you said > On 3/9/05 10:03 PM, "Bob Tanner" wrote: > > > Googling for 'Segmentation fault fsck' show many problem trees. > > > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/blinux-list/1998-June/msg00047.html > > > > That similar to what you are seeing? > > Looks similar, but I think we're hosed anyway. I managed to boot off of a > rescue CD and fsck everything. Despite coming back clean from fsck, the > system still segfaults. Luckily I can mount the partitions manually and we > should be able to pull everything off the system without too much trouble. > > I'm having trouble getting a couple of the server's daemons running though. > Postgres came up fine so I did a dump of all the current databases. (That's > just to prevent losing the transactions from yesterday that occurred after > the nightly backup.) But we also have some MySQL DBs on the system. I'd like > to do the same, but I can't get MySQL started. It fails silently and simply > says to check the syslog. There's no help in there that I can see. > > Any suggestions? Would there be another daemon that needs to be started > before mysqld can run? BTW, this is a Dell 1750 running Debian. > > -Tim > > -- One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important. Don't be so confident - you are not that great. From wilson at visi.com Thu Mar 10 10:31:27 2005 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Thu Mar 10 10:35:29 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] MySQL migration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 3/10/05 10:03 AM, "Adam Maloney" wrote: > On Thu, 10 Mar 2005, Tim Wilson wrote: > >> I'm still unable to restart mysqld on my server that crashed. I'm afraid >> that I won't be able to dump the current contents of the database so I can >> reload it. I do have the contents of /var/lib/mysql which appears to be the >> raw mysql tables. Is it possible to copy these files, reinstall the system, >> put those files back, and get a working MySQL system? > > Yes, but also take a look at mysqlhotcopy - I know it can take backups > with the server down. The mysqlhotcopy appears to require a live server. I don't see any command line switches to change that. Any other ideas? Copying the raw files isn't a terrible option since that appears to be a workable strategy. -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 blog: http://technosavvy.org/ From tommyj27 at gmail.com Thu Mar 10 10:34:19 2005 From: tommyj27 at gmail.com (Thomas Johnson) Date: Thu Mar 10 10:39:29 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] How to configure dhcp server to advertise gateways for multiple subnetworks? In-Reply-To: References: <20050310144903.GC14365@iucha.net> Message-ID: <1469cda205031008343cc1e64b@mail.gmail.com> > If this is the case, a workaround would be to set the default gateway on > the clients to the Linux router, and let the router reroute the packets to > the DSL. Not 100% optimal since the packets go over the same network > twice, but you're talking about a DSL line, I don't think it's going to > severely impact performance on a 100M LAN. will linux route packets like this? i feel like I've tried it before and it refused to route them and send out icmp redirects instead, although that might solve your problem too. From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Thu Mar 10 10:39:22 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Thu Mar 10 10:43:42 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux isn't UNIX? Still? In-Reply-To: <1110471377.423072d1ca614@my.visi.com> References: <1110471377.423072d1ca614@my.visi.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 smac@visi.com wrote: > All that and UNIX was developed buy ATT Labs and Linux was developed by > Linus. I think I'm understanding that UNIX is a trademark that can only be used (after some money exchanges hands) in reference to an operating system that has some particular code inside. UNIX is not defined by what the operating system does. If I am understanding this, the situation is a little odd. It's like "Windows" - that is a Microsoft OS (several, actually). Microsoft could (but won't) sell the rights to others to make Joe's Windows, Bob's Windows, etc. Microsoft would then determine that Joe and Bob were meeting Microsoft criteria for calling their OSs "Windows." If Tom were to make an OS that worked just like Windows but without the bugs, he could not call it Windows because Microsoft hadn't given him the code and the permission to do so, so he'd call it Tomdows and face a massive legal challenge (because he used the 'dows' part of 'Windows'). I used to think that UNIX was defined by specifications of functionality (and some money changing hands) not by the code inside. So Linux is UNIXish but it isn't UNIX. Mike From adam at whee.org Thu Mar 10 10:33:10 2005 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Thu Mar 10 10:49:35 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] MySQL migration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >From http://dev.mysql.com/doc/mysql/en/backup.html "Do a full backup of your database: ... shell> mysqlhotcopy db_name /path/to/some/dir You can also simply copy all table files (*.frm, *.MYD, and *.MYI files) as long as the server isn't updating anything. The mysqlhotcopy script uses this method. (But note that these methods do not work if your database contains InnoDB tables. InnoDB does not store table contents in database directories, and mysqlhotcopy works only for MyISAM and ISAM tables.) " I suggested mysqlhotcopy because it may have some options that make it easier for you, depending on your situation. But copying the raw files will work just as well. From adam at whee.org Thu Mar 10 10:36:44 2005 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Thu Mar 10 10:53:29 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] How to configure dhcp server to advertise gateways for multiple subnetworks? In-Reply-To: <1469cda205031008343cc1e64b@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050310144903.GC14365@iucha.net> <1469cda205031008343cc1e64b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Mar 2005, Thomas Johnson wrote: > will linux route packets like this? i feel like I've tried it before > and it refused to route them and send out icmp redirects instead, > although that might solve your problem too. I dunno about Linux, but I have a crisco here doing it. It sends the redirects but still routes the packets. In any case, I think it (Linux) is supposed to. From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Thu Mar 10 10:55:54 2005 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Thu Mar 10 10:59:29 2005 Subject: GNU, Stallman, and Linux was Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <20050310022828.GC31719@iucha.net> References: <200503091448.22458.dave@math.umn.edu> <20050309210048.GA16879@wookimus.net> <200503091522.02828.dave@math.umn.edu> <20050310022828.GC31719@iucha.net> Message-ID: <914f813c0503100855684f12db@mail.gmail.com> Picking nits, perhaps... On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 20:28:28 -0600, Florin Iucha wrote: > Intel got their C compiler to grok GNU C and they got the kernel to Don't you mean ANSI C? Or does GNU actually have a custom definition of the language? From jonner.2530195 at bloglines.com Thu Mar 10 10:57:15 2005 From: jonner.2530195 at bloglines.com (jonner.2530195@bloglines.com) Date: Thu Mar 10 11:02:04 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux isn't UNIX? Still? Message-ID: <1110473835.3112959065.10480.sendItem@bloglines.com> --- Mike Miller I used to think that UNIX was defined by specifications of functionality > (and some money changing hands) not by the code inside. perhaps you were thinking of POSIX? From sfertch at gmail.com Thu Mar 10 11:01:06 2005 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Thu Mar 10 11:05:41 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux isn't UNIX? Still? In-Reply-To: References: <1110471377.423072d1ca614@my.visi.com> Message-ID: <67f3084a05031009011daa20f9@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 10:39:22 -0600 (CST), Mike Miller wrote: > > So Linux is UNIXish but it isn't UNIX. > Linux is like UNIX. ;-) -- -Shawn -Nemo me impune lacessit. Ne Obliviscaris.. From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Thu Mar 10 11:07:57 2005 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Thu Mar 10 11:13:29 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <20050310055158.GL10682@momentum.poptix.net> References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> <20050309182819.GA31310@sherohman.org> <200503100534.j2A5Y3I30886@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <20050310055158.GL10682@momentum.poptix.net> Message-ID: <914f813c0503100907361b083f@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 23:51:58 -0600, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > Has anyone considered that *GNU* wouldn't be much of anywhere without > Linux? I'll second that one. I don't know about many of the others on this list, but there wouldn't have been a TCLUG without Linus' kernel. And I most certainly would never have heard of GNU/Stallman without Linus' contribution, except perhaps in passing with the odd util. that I stumbled across on a *BSD system. Linux is Linux. GNU/Stallman wants credit, and credit is granted in every GNU utility on a Linux system, as the GPL license dictates. If GNU/Stallman wanted credit in name-sake, perhaps he should add that condition to the GPL. Which would violate the GPL. Hm. From tanner at real-time.com Thu Mar 10 11:47:12 2005 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Thu Mar 10 11:51:30 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Server went down hard -- need advice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200503101147.15771@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com> On Thursday 10 March 2005 08:38 am, Tim Wilson wrote: > I'm having trouble getting a couple of the server's daemons running though. > Postgres came up fine so I did a dump of all the current databases. (That's > just to prevent losing the transactions from yesterday that occurred after > the nightly backup.) But we also have some MySQL DBs on the system. I'd > like to do the same, but I can't get MySQL started. It fails silently and > simply says to check the syslog. There's no help in there that I can see. [mysqld] log = /var/log/mysql/mysql.log ??? All sort of info should be there on why mysql failed to start. /usr/sbin/mysqld, Version: 4.0.23_Debian-10-log, started with: Tcp port: 3306 Unix socket: /var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock Time Id Command Argument -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 From dave at math.umn.edu Thu Mar 10 11:54:13 2005 From: dave at math.umn.edu (Dave Carlson) Date: Thu Mar 10 11:57:01 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Server went down hard -- need advice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200503101154.17951.dave@math.umn.edu> On Thursday 10 March 2005 08:38 am, Tim Wilson wrote: > Any suggestions? Would there be another daemon that needs to be started > before mysqld can run? BTW, this is a Dell 1750 running Debian. I just had a Dell 1750 crash *exactly* like that a few weeks ago - I called it in for service and they basically had to replace everything. I bet you've got the same problem I had. It will corrupt things if you continue to use the hardware. -- -dave Dave Carlson Systems Administrator School of Mathematics, University of Minnesota http://www.math.umn.edu PGP/GPG Fingerprint: C3D0 9962 1E98 B742 132D 0E1A CE11 7C4B 5309 97A7 (visit http://www.gnupg.org for more information) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050310/7df43cb6/attachment.pgp From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Thu Mar 10 12:04:19 2005 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Thu Mar 10 12:07:30 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <20050310144110.GA19967@wookimus.net> References: <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> <20050309182819.GA31310@sherohman.org> <422F482B.8070407@visi.com> <20050309191912.GC31310@sherohman.org> <20050309133359.A198@baker.space.umn.edu> <20050310070628.A2212@baker.space.umn.edu> <20050310144110.GA19967@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20050310120419.A2901@baker.space.umn.edu> On Thu, Mar 10, 2005 at 08:41:10AM -0600, Chad Walstrom wrote: > On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 01:55:48PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote: > > LIH nuhks - a good American approximation. Linus actually pronounces > > it a bit more like LEE nooks, but he has an accent! ;-) > > And that's what's important, isn't it? Whenever I talk about Linus > Torvalds, I pronounce his name the way he would: Lee nus. Thus, I also > try to pronounce Linux as he would: lee nux, though I don't always > remember. Fine. I would have converted much more quickly to say "LEE nucks", but "Lih nooks" makes no sense. But I know its pretty hopeless at this point. > Jim Crumley wrote: > > Part of the reason that I don't buy "lih nucks" is that Linus does > > have an accent in the classic recording of him saying Linux. > > Exactly. > > > I realize that its not the accepted version and I am trying to convert > > myself to the more accepted version. The argument (which I know has > > been lost by this point) is that Linux is based on Linus which in > > English is pronounced "LIE nus", so the pronunciation should be "LIE > > nucks". Following the English pronunciation seems to be the typcial > > method for pronouncing words in English that are based on names. > > This I certainly don't buy. Just because you're speaking $LANGUAGE_A > doesn't mean you have the right to butcher the pronunciation of a proper > name that originates in $LANGUAGE_B. The fact that rampant > mispronunciation is common American English also does not equate to > "correct". It equates to disrespect, or at best naivete. I agree its polite to try to say people's proper names the way that they would say them, but in practice I don't think that is consistently applied for other names. As an example in English, we don't pronounce Michelin or Air France as the French do, though we are pretty close on Renault. > > > Einsteinium is pronounced in Engish the way that Einstein is > > pronounced in English, not the way Einstein is pronounced in German. > > Again, this doesn't make it correct. However, let's examine this > example a little closer. Your argument that when speaking American > English, one should butcher pronunciation, Einstein should be pronounced > "een steen", not "ine stine", which is in fact closer to German than > you're claiming. To give it German flair, you might pronounce it as > "ine shtine". Not a very large departure from the original language of > the proper noun, if you ask me. Well, maybe that wasn't the best example. What about gene? Do you pronounce it as the German's do? Or color, do you pronounce it as the French (or Romans) do? As foreign words come into common usage in a language, their pronunciation shifts. The idea of having "correct" and "incorrect" in this case pronunciations doesn't really fit reality. Practice trumps theory in the end. > In any case, I suggest we drop this thread. To help out, I shall > mention another German word that should officially kill it: Nazi!!! I agree that the thread should die, but I couldn't let it after you tried to abuse Godwin's Law like this ;). It doesn't count if you do it on purpose! -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons | From florin at iucha.net Thu Mar 10 12:27:30 2005 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Thu Mar 10 12:31:30 2005 Subject: GNU, Stallman, and Linux was Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <914f813c0503100855684f12db@mail.gmail.com> References: <200503091448.22458.dave@math.umn.edu> <20050309210048.GA16879@wookimus.net> <200503091522.02828.dave@math.umn.edu> <20050310022828.GC31719@iucha.net> <914f813c0503100855684f12db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050310182730.GD14365@iucha.net> On Thu, Mar 10, 2005 at 10:55:54AM -0600, John T. Hoffoss wrote: > On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 20:28:28 -0600, Florin Iucha wrote: > > Intel got their C compiler to grok GNU C and they got the kernel to > > Don't you mean ANSI C? Or does GNU actually have a custom definition > of the language? No, I really meant GNU C which is an has a bunch of extensions (as always some good and some bad) over Ansi C. florin -- Don't question authority: they don't know either! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050310/70585d9a/attachment.pgp From florin at iucha.net Thu Mar 10 12:30:43 2005 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Thu Mar 10 12:35:31 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] How to configure dhcp server to advertise gateways for multiple subnetworks? In-Reply-To: References: <20050310144903.GC14365@iucha.net> Message-ID: <20050310183043.GE14365@iucha.net> On Thu, Mar 10, 2005 at 09:14:24AM -0600, Adam Maloney wrote: > >I have two subnetworks (10.10.0.0 - 100 Mbit and 10.0.0.0 - Gigabit) > >separated by a linux server that acts as a router. I am running dhcpd3 > >on the router, but I have a problem with the configuration. > > IIRC, the protocol supports specifying additional routes for the client to > install, but not a netmask, so it defaults to classful. Your route for > the 10.0.0.0/24 network would be installed as a /8 in the client. I just > checked and I don't even see this option in ISC DHCP3... > > If this is the case, a workaround would be to set the default gateway on > the clients to the Linux router, and let the router reroute the packets to > the DSL. Not 100% optimal since the packets go over the same network > twice, but you're talking about a DSL line, I don't think it's going to > severely impact performance on a 100M LAN. I will try this. > Another option may be to add another NIC to the router and have the router > be the real gateway for the DSL. But this may not be an option depending > on the rest of your setup. Nope - I am out of PCI slots: one for GigE and one for USB 2.0. florin -- Don't question authority: they don't know either! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050310/25a786bc/attachment.pgp From natecars at real-time.com Thu Mar 10 12:39:37 2005 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Thu Mar 10 12:43:30 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] How to configure dhcp server to advertise gateways for multiple subnetworks? In-Reply-To: <20050310183043.GE14365@iucha.net> References: <20050310144903.GC14365@iucha.net> <20050310183043.GE14365@iucha.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Mar 2005, Florin Iucha wrote: > Nope - I am out of PCI slots: one for GigE and one for USB 2.0. Could always use a USB NIC. :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From bbaptist at iexposure.com Thu Mar 10 12:55:20 2005 From: bbaptist at iexposure.com (Bret Baptist) Date: Thu Mar 10 12:59:30 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] How to configure dhcp server to advertise gateways for multiple subnetworks? In-Reply-To: References: <20050310144903.GC14365@iucha.net> <20050310183043.GE14365@iucha.net> Message-ID: <200503101255.20810.bbaptist@iexposure.com> On Thursday 10 March 2005 12:39 pm, Nate Carlson wrote: > On Thu, 10 Mar 2005, Florin Iucha wrote: > > Nope - I am out of PCI slots: one for GigE and one for USB 2.0. > > Could always use a USB NIC. :) Or get a dual port GigE card. http://www.intel.com/network/connectivity/products/pro1000mt_dual_server_adapter.htm -- Bret Baptist Systems and Technical Support Specialist bbaptist@iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com (612)676-1946 x17 Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services ------------------------------------------ Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday. From ces.fci at gmail.com Thu Mar 10 13:23:02 2005 From: ces.fci at gmail.com (fci) Date: Thu Mar 10 13:27:32 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] audio drowns out after using xine Message-ID: occasionally after viewing a variety of mpg's I've downloaded, I will find out I am having audio problems.. for example, I will listen to mp3's and the volume is half of what it should be when the volume is set to the maximum.. I tried googling for a solution but my poor search terms yielded few results.. thoughts? so far rebooting has helped the issue but rather inconveniant.. c From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Thu Mar 10 13:51:23 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Thu Mar 10 13:55:31 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux isn't UNIX? Still? In-Reply-To: <1110473835.3112959065.10480.sendItem@bloglines.com> References: <1110473835.3112959065.10480.sendItem@bloglines.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 jonner.2530195@bloglines.com wrote: > --- Mike Miller >> I used to think that UNIX was defined by specifications of >> functionality (and some money changing hands) not by the code inside. > > perhaps you were thinking of POSIX? No, I was thinking of UNIX. Side note: POSIX was named by RMS. Now I see that I am correct about the definition of UNIX. The information is here: http://www.unix.org/what_is_unix.html As the owner of the UNIX trademark, The Open Group has separated the UNIX trademark from any actual code stream itself, thus allowing multiple implementations. Since the introduction of the Single UNIX Specification, there has been a single, open, consensus specification that defines the requirements for a conformant UNIX system. The single UNIX specification is here: http://www.unix.org/what_is_unix/single_unix_specification.html The reason for this approach: A programmer developing applications on an Single UNIX Specification system has at their disposal all of the functions, commands and utilities described in the Single UNIX Specification document set. This functional superset of consensus-based specifications and historical practice also creates a straightforward environment for porting existing applications running on UNIX systems. Products that implement Single UNIX Specification and qualify for the X/Open UNIX brand will compile and run applications built or ported according to this model. So here is my question: Which of the "functions, commands and utilities described in the Single UNIX Specification document set" is not available under GNU/Linux? (To those who are offended by it, I'm sorry for the "GNU/" in front of Linux - but if Linux is the kernel, it probably offers none of the UNIX functions/commands/utilities I'm asking about.) Thanks in advance for any answers you can come up with. The OpenGroup also seems to be managing the Linux Standards Base (LSB), which seems to have a similar goal for Linux as the Single UNIX specification has for UNIX. Mike From nate at refried.org Thu Mar 10 13:52:24 2005 From: nate at refried.org (Nate Straz) Date: Thu Mar 10 13:55:38 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux isn't UNIX? Still? In-Reply-To: References: <1110471377.423072d1ca614@my.visi.com> Message-ID: <20050310195224.GC14775@refried.org> On Thu, Mar 10, 2005 at 10:39:22AM -0600, Mike Miller wrote: > I used to think that UNIX was defined by specifications of functionality > (and some money changing hands) not by the code inside. > > So Linux is UNIXish but it isn't UNIX. I think you're confusing UNIX and Posix. Nate From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Thu Mar 10 13:58:52 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Thu Mar 10 14:01:24 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <914f813c0503100907361b083f@mail.gmail.com> References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> <20050309182819.GA31310@sherohman.org> <200503100534.j2A5Y3I30886@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <20050310055158.GL10682@momentum.poptix.net> <914f813c0503100907361b083f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Mar 2005, John T. Hoffoss wrote: > On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 23:51:58 -0600, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > >> Has anyone considered that *GNU* wouldn't be much of anywhere without >> Linux? > > I'll second that one. I don't know about many of the others on this > list, but there wouldn't have been a TCLUG without Linus' kernel. You do know that GNU always had the goal of producing a kernel, right? So I think you would have heard of it eventually. If Linus Torvalds had died in infancy, someone else would have made some kind of kernel and you would still be talking about GNU. Is Stallman ungrateful about Linux? No. He says it is great and it has helped GNU a lot, but I think people exaggerate when they claim that we wouldn't know about GNU if it weren't for Linux. We don't know what would have happened. Also, you are probably unaware of it, but GNU tools were widely used on UNIX systems (e.g., Solaris/SunOS) well before Linux made any headway. Millions of people (tens of thousands at least) were using GNU/Emacs, gawk, gtar (just GNU's awk and tar, but we'd add a 'g' in front to distinguish it from Solaris awk and tar), gcc and others. This was the major use of GNU before Linux came along. Mike From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Thu Mar 10 14:05:58 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Thu Mar 10 14:09:31 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux isn't UNIX? Still? In-Reply-To: <20050310195224.GC14775@refried.org> References: <1110471377.423072d1ca614@my.visi.com> <20050310195224.GC14775@refried.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Mar 2005, Nate Straz wrote: >> So Linux is UNIXish but it isn't UNIX. > > I think you're confusing UNIX and Posix. Our messages probably crossed on the 'net. There is a "Single UNIX Specification" and that is what I'm referring to. POSIX is one aspect of that standard, I guess, but I haven't studied it much. Apparently, the Linux Standards Base (LSB) was based on the Single UNIX Specification Version 2. This is a couple of years old: http://www.opengroup.org/platform/single_unix_specification/uploads/40/1013/lwe2002-c65.pdf Mike From auditodd at comcast.net Thu Mar 10 16:53:48 2005 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Thu Mar 10 16:57:33 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Xine sound dropouts Message-ID: <4230CFFC.8030206@comcast.net> Hey all, I've got Mepis v3.3 (pretty much the default install with libdvdcss added) on an HP Omnibook XE3. 800Mhz proc with 256Meg of RAM. When playing a DVD in Xine, the sound drops out occasionally, and yet in Mplayer it does not. (I've played with older versions and had the same problem.) I like Xine better as it allows me to access the DVD root menu, whereas Mplayer just starts playing the movie (this can be a pain when the default is to play the movie with director comments). I've seen the same thing happen on an Omnibook 6000 (733 proc with 256Meg of RAM). Any ideas or things to try? Thanks. -- Todd Young -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.1 - Release Date: 3/9/2005 From seg at haxxed.com Thu Mar 10 19:48:33 2005 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Thu Mar 10 19:51:35 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] audio drowns out after using xine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1110505713.13489.34.camel@bigtime> On Thu, 2005-03-10 at 13:23 -0600, fci wrote: > occasionally after viewing a variety of mpg's I've downloaded, I will > find out I am having audio problems.. for example, I will listen to > mp3's and the volume is half of what it should be when the volume is > set to the maximum.. I tried googling for a solution but my poor > search terms yielded few results.. thoughts? > so far rebooting has helped the issue but rather inconveniant.. Buggy audio driver? What are you using for a sound card? I have an ES1371 that did this occasionally, but newer drivers seemed to fix it. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050310/32faab9e/attachment.pgp From jkjones at tcq.net Thu Mar 10 20:31:34 2005 From: jkjones at tcq.net (Kraig Jones) Date: Thu Mar 10 20:25:35 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Xine sound dropouts In-Reply-To: <4230CFFC.8030206@comcast.net> References: <4230CFFC.8030206@comcast.net> Message-ID: <42310306.6000307@tcq.net> Todd Young wrote: > Hey all, > > I've got Mepis v3.3 (pretty much the default install with libdvdcss > added) on an HP Omnibook XE3. 800Mhz proc with 256Meg of RAM. When > playing a DVD in Xine, the sound drops out occasionally, and yet in > Mplayer it does not. (I've played with older versions and had the same > problem.) > I have an HP Pavilion notebook with Ubuntu distro, and have had problems with Xine's sound when running in Gnome (my default). But when I run in KDE, Xine works fine. I once tried to fix it, but didn't get anywhere. So I just run KDE when I want to play a DVD. Kraig From seg at haxxed.com Thu Mar 10 22:36:31 2005 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Thu Mar 10 22:39:37 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] pronunciation, GNU/Linux, et cetera In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1110515791.13489.35.camel@bigtime> On Thu, 2005-03-10 at 07:52 -0600, Jima wrote: > Am I the only one who finds this to be one of the most drawn-out, > pointless flamewars in TCLUG history? People seem to be taking the > argument as a personal affront. Sheesh. And people call me pedantic. At least the list is active. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050310/31f5b14a/attachment.pgp From kfuchs at winternet.com Thu Mar 10 22:41:49 2005 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Thu Mar 10 22:44:34 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <20050310154554.GF59780@therub.org> (message from Dan Rue on Thu, 10 Mar 2005 09:45:54 -0600) References: <5bab831e05030907201eae79ac@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503090742236af37a@mail.gmail.com> <5bab831e05030908304a3cceb6@mail.gmail.com> <20050309164939.GD59780@therub.org> <200503100354.j2A3s6C29916@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <20050310154554.GF59780@therub.org> Message-ID: <200503110441.j2B4fnE11858@ecstasy1.winternet.com> Dan wrote: >For what it's worth, I say lin-ucks, G-N-U (i never say guh-nu), nome, >v-i - but my favorite thing to say is FreeBSD. And I would never >correct someone's pronunciation unless they asked, because I do believe >that would be rude and elitist. Sorry. In the future, I will wait for your permission to correct the pronunciation of words you purposely mispronounce. I'm sorry you didn't seem to find any humour in my post. How do you pronounce FreeBSD? (: Just kidding. :) Sincerely, Ken Fuchs From seg at haxxed.com Thu Mar 10 22:57:36 2005 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Thu Mar 10 23:01:37 2005 Subject: GNU, Stallman, and Linux was Re: [tclug-list] stupid pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: <20050310004243.GG29127@joelschneider.net> References: <4a0cafe2050309155055e4b6d@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205030915573c37523a@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe2050309173946301463@mail.gmail.com> <20050310004243.GG29127@joelschneider.net> Message-ID: <1110517056.13489.51.camel@bigtime> On Wed, 2005-03-09 at 18:42 -0600, Joel Schneider wrote: > On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 08:02:23PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote: > > Linus Torvalds wrote: > > > > http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/Historic/old-versions/RELNOTES-0.01 > > The release notes indicate that the linux 0.01 is closely related to > MINIX. Has Andrew Tanenbaum ever suggested that it should be called > MINIX/Linux instead of just Linux? An SCO flunky apparently tried to stir up some dirt in this area, going so far as trying to manipulate Andrew Tanenbaum in an interview. It lead to some interesting essays from Andrew: "Linus used MINIX as his development platform. There is no dispute about that. He also used some ideas from MINIX. But MINIX wasn't original either. Here is a little bit of the history Linux used ideas from MINIX MINIX used ideas from UNIX UNIX used ideas from MULTICS MULTICS used ideas from CTSS CTSS used ideas from FMS In science, all work is based on what came before it. Nothing unusual here. What Linus didn't do was steal the MINIX code. That has been well documented." http://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/brown/ http://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/brown/followup/ http://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/brown/rebuttal/ http://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/brown/codecomparison/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050310/e70cd460/attachment-0001.pgp From webmaster at mn-linux.org Thu Mar 10 23:04:18 2005 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Thu Mar 10 23:07:37 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200503110504.j2B54I713779@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: random stuff pair of 10/100 pci nics Compex chip..$1ea pair of isa creative labs sound cards $1ea Compaq Raid card w/ battery backup..$2 Gateway pII 450, mid tower, 64mb ram, 6gb hd, ati agp video..$20 Seller Email address: jungle at hickorytech dot net http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From joel at joelschneider.net Fri Mar 11 03:12:28 2005 From: joel at joelschneider.net (Joel Schneider) Date: Fri Mar 11 09:33:45 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] pronunciation, GNU/Linux, et cetera In-Reply-To: References: <20050310093423.000033f9@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> Message-ID: <20050311091228.GK29127@joelschneider.net> On Thu, Mar 10, 2005 at 10:00:06AM -0600, Mike Miller wrote: > On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 07:52:08 -0600 (CST) Jima wrote: > > >Am I the only one who finds this to be one of the most drawn-out, > >pointless flamewars in TCLUG history? > > There is some unnecessary repetitiveness and "me too"ness, but I have > found the rest of it very informative. It is good to know what the > opinions and battle lines are. Some people have shared links to useful > resources. We have reviewed some of the history. It wasn't all a waste > of time. You can keep your battle lines. I'll take the software. -- Joel Schneider joel@joelschneider.net From wilson at visi.com Fri Mar 11 10:55:06 2005 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Fri Mar 11 10:57:46 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] apt-get withdrawal Message-ID: Hey everyone, I'm trying to get a RedHat Enterprese Linux 4 server going and I'm really missing apt-get. I know that it's available for RH, but has anyone used it with RHEL 4? I'm having trouble locating suitable apt sources. Got a source list you can share? -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 blog: http://technosavvy.org/ From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Fri Mar 11 12:44:20 2005 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Fri Mar 11 12:47:48 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] apt-get withdrawal Message-ID: Tim, Have you investigated the capabilities of 'up2date-nox'? If so, what is missing from it that is available in 'apt-get'? Common commands: up2date-nox -u up2date-nox --show-available up2date-nox --show-available | grep packagename up2date-nox -i packagename I prefer 'yum', but up2date seems to be the way Red Hat wants me to update this box. It is pretty easy to use and it gets the job done, so I don't mind so much. Troy >>> Tim Wilson 03/11/05 10:55 AM >>> Hey everyone, I'm trying to get a RedHat Enterprese Linux 4 server going and I'm really missing apt-get. I know that it's available for RH, but has anyone used it with RHEL 4? I'm having trouble locating suitable apt sources. Got a source list you can share? -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 blog: http://technosavvy.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list@mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Fri Mar 11 13:20:51 2005 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Fri Mar 11 13:23:47 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] knoppix hd install; hw upgrade; no video Message-ID: <914f813c05031111206d988941@mail.gmail.com> I had a system with a knoppix derivative installed to the hard drive. Worked great, upgraded it, etc. so, pretty much, straight-up debian[-testing?] at this point. Went and got an MSI 915G mobo, PIV 3GHz, bla bla. Moved the disk, and now I can't get video, and when I try to boot 2.6, it just locks. I was running 2.6.7-custom, so installed 2.6.8-686-smp, only to get the same thing. With 2.4, I get to a command line but am still not getting any video. lspci: 000:00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corp. 82915G Express Chipset Family Graphics Controller (rev 04) In addition, the on-board IDE/RAID controller (which I want for normal IDE only) doesn't seem to be supported. Which means I can't boot to a KNOPPIX CD to check out what it's doing in X, since it can't find the CD. I can rip this apart and move the CD to IDE0:1, but this issue will still persist either way, and I'll need support for more than two drives. (This board only has one ATA100 IDE controller. The other two are the VIA ATA133 slots.) lspci: 000:02:04.0 RAID bus controller: VIA Tech. VT6410 ATA133 RAID Controller (rev 06) Silly me for assuming this would just work... From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Fri Mar 11 13:40:09 2005 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Fri Mar 11 13:43:47 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] knoppix hd install; hw upgrade; no video In-Reply-To: <1469cda20503111130614b2acc@mail.gmail.com> References: <914f813c05031111206d988941@mail.gmail.com> <1469cda20503111130614b2acc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <914f813c05031111407b5c2b90@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 13:30:06 -0600, Thomas Johnson wrote: > > On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 13:20:51 -0600, John T. Hoffoss > wrote: > > I had a system with a knoppix derivative installed to the hard drive. > > Worked great, upgraded it, etc. so, pretty much, straight-up > > debian[-testing?] at this point. > > > > Went and got an MSI 915G mobo, PIV 3GHz, bla bla. Moved the disk, and > > now I can't get video, and when I try to boot 2.6, it just locks. > > > > I was running 2.6.7-custom, so installed 2.6.8-686-smp, only to get > > the same thing. With 2.4, I get to a command line but am still not > > getting any video. > > > > lspci: > > 000:00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corp. 82915G Express > > Chipset Family Graphics Controller (rev 04) > > > > In addition, the on-board IDE/RAID controller (which I want for normal > > IDE only) doesn't seem to be supported. Which means I can't boot to a > > KNOPPIX CD to check out what it's doing in X, since it can't find the > > CD. > > > > I can rip this apart and move the CD to IDE0:1, but this issue will > > still persist either way, and I'll need support for more than two > > drives. (This board only has one ATA100 IDE controller. The other two > > are the VIA ATA133 slots.) > > > > lspci: > > 000:02:04.0 RAID bus controller: VIA Tech. VT6410 ATA133 RAID > > Controller (rev 06) > > > > Silly me for assuming this would just work... > > hey john, > > have you checked to see if there are any funky video settings in your > bootloader config. Sounds suspiciously like a problem i had when i > moved some machines to 2.6. The video boot string changed between 2.4 > and 2.6. > > tom Yeah, I checked. Nothing but "vga=791", same as the 2.6.7 kernel. Also tried nofb, to no avail. I wasn't clear on it before, either, but the knoppix-customized 2.6.7 kernel boots with vesafb, just no CD/IDE-RAID (Picks up the SATA stuff too.) or X. (X just errors out saying no devices detected, so perhaps a missing kernel module, but I don't know which one.) From narshe at gmail.com Fri Mar 11 13:52:42 2005 From: narshe at gmail.com (Josh Close) Date: Fri Mar 11 13:55:48 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] knoppix hd install; hw upgrade; no video In-Reply-To: <4a0cafe205031111526a7052ea@mail.gmail.com> References: <914f813c05031111206d988941@mail.gmail.com> <1469cda20503111130614b2acc@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c05031111407b5c2b90@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205031111526a7052ea@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4a0cafe205031111526a485fcd@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 13:52:32 -0600, Josh Close wrote: > Boot up with knoppix, then do > > # cat /proc/modules > > to see what modules where loaded. Then make sure those modules are in > your kernel. > > -Josh > > On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 13:40:09 -0600, John T. Hoffoss > wrote: > > On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 13:30:06 -0600, Thomas Johnson wrote: > > > > > > On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 13:20:51 -0600, John T. Hoffoss > > > wrote: > > > > I had a system with a knoppix derivative installed to the hard drive. > > > > Worked great, upgraded it, etc. so, pretty much, straight-up > > > > debian[-testing?] at this point. > > > > > > > > Went and got an MSI 915G mobo, PIV 3GHz, bla bla. Moved the disk, and > > > > now I can't get video, and when I try to boot 2.6, it just locks. > > > > > > > > I was running 2.6.7-custom, so installed 2.6.8-686-smp, only to get > > > > the same thing. With 2.4, I get to a command line but am still not > > > > getting any video. > > > > > > > > lspci: > > > > 000:00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corp. 82915G Express > > > > Chipset Family Graphics Controller (rev 04) > > > > > > > > In addition, the on-board IDE/RAID controller (which I want for normal > > > > IDE only) doesn't seem to be supported. Which means I can't boot to a > > > > KNOPPIX CD to check out what it's doing in X, since it can't find the > > > > CD. > > > > > > > > I can rip this apart and move the CD to IDE0:1, but this issue will > > > > still persist either way, and I'll need support for more than two > > > > drives. (This board only has one ATA100 IDE controller. The other two > > > > are the VIA ATA133 slots.) > > > > > > > > lspci: > > > > 000:02:04.0 RAID bus controller: VIA Tech. VT6410 ATA133 RAID > > > > Controller (rev 06) > > > > > > > > Silly me for assuming this would just work... > > > > > > hey john, > > > > > > have you checked to see if there are any funky video settings in your > > > bootloader config. Sounds suspiciously like a problem i had when i > > > moved some machines to 2.6. The video boot string changed between 2.4 > > > and 2.6. > > > > > > tom > > > > Yeah, I checked. Nothing but "vga=791", same as the 2.6.7 kernel. Also > > tried nofb, to no avail. I wasn't clear on it before, either, but the > > knoppix-customized 2.6.7 kernel boots with vesafb, just no CD/IDE-RAID > > (Picks up the SATA stuff too.) or X. (X just errors out saying no > > devices detected, so perhaps a missing kernel module, but I don't know > > which one.) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From narshe at gmail.com Fri Mar 11 14:04:06 2005 From: narshe at gmail.com (Josh Close) Date: Fri Mar 11 14:07:47 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] knoppix hd install; hw upgrade; no video In-Reply-To: <914f813c0503111155704c7438@mail.gmail.com> References: <914f813c05031111206d988941@mail.gmail.com> <1469cda20503111130614b2acc@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c05031111407b5c2b90@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205031111526a7052ea@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503111155704c7438@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4a0cafe205031112045218fe86@mail.gmail.com> I think there is a kernel param you can pass when booting like doscsu or something. If you get booted, go into your kernel config under Device Drivers -> SCSI Device Support ->SCSI low-level drivers and compile in anything that has VIA in it, especially the VIA SATA drivers. Compile it in to make sure it's not a hotplug or module loading issue. -Josh On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 13:55:55 -0600, John T. Hoffoss wrote: > I went over this...the CD-ROM is on the non-identified IDE-RAID controller. > > I'm going to try this, but I highly doubt it's going to find that > controller either way. That may help with the video though. > > -John > > > On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 13:52:32 -0600, Josh Close wrote: > > Boot up with knoppix, then do > > > > # cat /proc/modules > > > > to see what modules where loaded. Then make sure those modules are in > > your kernel. > > > > -Josh > > > > On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 13:40:09 -0600, John T. Hoffoss > > wrote: > > > On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 13:30:06 -0600, Thomas Johnson wrote: > > > > > > > > On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 13:20:51 -0600, John T. Hoffoss > > > > wrote: > > > > > I had a system with a knoppix derivative installed to the hard drive. > > > > > Worked great, upgraded it, etc. so, pretty much, straight-up > > > > > debian[-testing?] at this point. > > > > > > > > > > Went and got an MSI 915G mobo, PIV 3GHz, bla bla. Moved the disk, and > > > > > now I can't get video, and when I try to boot 2.6, it just locks. > > > > > > > > > > I was running 2.6.7-custom, so installed 2.6.8-686-smp, only to get > > > > > the same thing. With 2.4, I get to a command line but am still not > > > > > getting any video. > > > > > > > > > > lspci: > > > > > 000:00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corp. 82915G Express > > > > > Chipset Family Graphics Controller (rev 04) > > > > > > > > > > In addition, the on-board IDE/RAID controller (which I want for normal > > > > > IDE only) doesn't seem to be supported. Which means I can't boot to a > > > > > KNOPPIX CD to check out what it's doing in X, since it can't find the > > > > > CD. > > > > > > > > > > I can rip this apart and move the CD to IDE0:1, but this issue will > > > > > still persist either way, and I'll need support for more than two > > > > > drives. (This board only has one ATA100 IDE controller. The other two > > > > > are the VIA ATA133 slots.) > > > > > > > > > > lspci: > > > > > 000:02:04.0 RAID bus controller: VIA Tech. VT6410 ATA133 RAID > > > > > Controller (rev 06) > > > > > > > > > > Silly me for assuming this would just work... > > > > > > > > hey john, > > > > > > > > have you checked to see if there are any funky video settings in your > > > > bootloader config. Sounds suspiciously like a problem i had when i > > > > moved some machines to 2.6. The video boot string changed between 2.4 > > > > and 2.6. > > > > > > > > tom > > > > > > Yeah, I checked. Nothing but "vga=791", same as the 2.6.7 kernel. Also > > > tried nofb, to no avail. I wasn't clear on it before, either, but the > > > knoppix-customized 2.6.7 kernel boots with vesafb, just no CD/IDE-RAID > > > (Picks up the SATA stuff too.) or X. (X just errors out saying no > > > devices detected, so perhaps a missing kernel module, but I don't know > > > which one.) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > -- > John T. Hoffoss > From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Fri Mar 11 14:11:10 2005 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Fri Mar 11 14:13:47 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] knoppix hd install; hw upgrade; no video In-Reply-To: <4a0cafe205031112045218fe86@mail.gmail.com> References: <914f813c05031111206d988941@mail.gmail.com> <1469cda20503111130614b2acc@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c05031111407b5c2b90@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205031111526a7052ea@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503111155704c7438@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205031112045218fe86@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <914f813c050311121143e06460@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:04:06 -0600, Josh Close wrote: > I think there is a kernel param you can pass when booting like doscsu > or something. > > If you get booted, go into your kernel config under > > Device Drivers -> SCSI Device Support ->SCSI low-level drivers > > and compile in anything that has VIA in it, especially the VIA SATA > drivers. Compile it in to make sure it's not a hotplug or module > loading issue. Is there a trick to this? I'm comfortable with kernel compiling in Gentoo, but the one time I tried it in Debian, it didn't work out so well. Any Debianites have a howto, or know of one? (I've already wasted WAY too much time trying to get this to work for me.) From narshe at gmail.com Fri Mar 11 14:28:42 2005 From: narshe at gmail.com (Josh Close) Date: Fri Mar 11 14:31:49 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] knoppix hd install; hw upgrade; no video In-Reply-To: <914f813c050311121143e06460@mail.gmail.com> References: <914f813c05031111206d988941@mail.gmail.com> <1469cda20503111130614b2acc@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c05031111407b5c2b90@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205031111526a7052ea@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503111155704c7438@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205031112045218fe86@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c050311121143e06460@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4a0cafe2050311122834720dc9@mail.gmail.com> Actually, I'm a gentoo user, so that's how I understand things..... Don't know why it would be any different in debian if you are compiling your own kernel. -Josh On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:11:10 -0600, John T. Hoffoss wrote: > On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:04:06 -0600, Josh Close wrote: > > I think there is a kernel param you can pass when booting like doscsu > > or something. > > > > If you get booted, go into your kernel config under > > > > Device Drivers -> SCSI Device Support ->SCSI low-level drivers > > > > and compile in anything that has VIA in it, especially the VIA SATA > > drivers. Compile it in to make sure it's not a hotplug or module > > loading issue. > > Is there a trick to this? I'm comfortable with kernel compiling in > Gentoo, but the one time I tried it in Debian, it didn't work out so > well. Any Debianites have a howto, or know of one? (I've already > wasted WAY too much time trying to get this to work for me.) > From florin at iucha.net Fri Mar 11 14:36:20 2005 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Fri Mar 11 14:39:33 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] knoppix hd install; hw upgrade; no video In-Reply-To: <914f813c050311121143e06460@mail.gmail.com> References: <914f813c05031111206d988941@mail.gmail.com> <1469cda20503111130614b2acc@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c05031111407b5c2b90@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205031111526a7052ea@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503111155704c7438@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205031112045218fe86@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c050311121143e06460@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050311203620.GB27037@iucha.net> On Fri, Mar 11, 2005 at 02:11:10PM -0600, John T. Hoffoss wrote: > On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:04:06 -0600, Josh Close wrote: > > I think there is a kernel param you can pass when booting like doscsu > > or something. > > > > If you get booted, go into your kernel config under > > > > Device Drivers -> SCSI Device Support ->SCSI low-level drivers > > > > and compile in anything that has VIA in it, especially the VIA SATA > > drivers. Compile it in to make sure it's not a hotplug or module > > loading issue. > > Is there a trick to this? I'm comfortable with kernel compiling in > Gentoo, but the one time I tried it in Debian, it didn't work out so > well. Any Debianites have a howto, or know of one? (I've already > wasted WAY too much time trying to get this to work for me.) apt-get install fakeroot kernel-package libncurses5-dev #extract kernel #configure kernel fakeroot make-kpkg --revision=custom1 kernel-image #get coffee su - dpkg -i ../kernel-image-$VER_custom1_i386.deb florin -- Don't question authority: they don't know either! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050311/6954c4cf/attachment.pgp From poptix at poptix.net Fri Mar 11 14:44:43 2005 From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Fri Mar 11 14:47:49 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] knoppix hd install; hw upgrade; no video In-Reply-To: <20050311203620.GB27037@iucha.net> References: <914f813c05031111206d988941@mail.gmail.com> <1469cda20503111130614b2acc@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c05031111407b5c2b90@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205031111526a7052ea@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503111155704c7438@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205031112045218fe86@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c050311121143e06460@mail.gmail.com> <20050311203620.GB27037@iucha.net> Message-ID: <20050311204443.GR10682@momentum.poptix.net> On Fri, Mar 11, 2005 at 02:36:20PM -0600, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Fri, Mar 11, 2005 at 02:11:10PM -0600, John T. Hoffoss wrote: > > On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:04:06 -0600, Josh Close wrote: > > > I think there is a kernel param you can pass when booting like doscsu > > > or something. > > > > > > If you get booted, go into your kernel config under > > > > > > Device Drivers -> SCSI Device Support ->SCSI low-level drivers > > > > > > and compile in anything that has VIA in it, especially the VIA SATA > > > drivers. Compile it in to make sure it's not a hotplug or module > > > loading issue. > > > > Is there a trick to this? I'm comfortable with kernel compiling in > > Gentoo, but the one time I tried it in Debian, it didn't work out so > > well. Any Debianites have a howto, or know of one? (I've already > > wasted WAY too much time trying to get this to work for me.) > > apt-get install fakeroot kernel-package libncurses5-dev > #extract kernel > #configure kernel > fakeroot make-kpkg --revision=custom1 kernel-image > #get coffee > su - > dpkg -i ../kernel-image-$VER_custom1_i386.deb Sounds complicated. # wget kernel.org/linux-foo.tbz2 # extract # zcat /proc/config.gz > .config ; make menuconfig # make install modules_install -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050311/164ab29f/attachment.pgp From jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com Fri Mar 11 14:53:52 2005 From: jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com (Jeff Rasmussen) Date: Fri Mar 11 14:57:48 2005 Subject: Fwd: [tclug-list] knoppix hd install; hw upgrade; no video In-Reply-To: <9d6c825305031112291dd5d37e@mail.gmail.com> References: <914f813c05031111206d988941@mail.gmail.com> <1469cda20503111130614b2acc@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c05031111407b5c2b90@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205031111526a7052ea@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503111155704c7438@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205031112045218fe86@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c050311121143e06460@mail.gmail.com> <9d6c825305031112291dd5d37e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9d6c8253050311125337d53cfa@mail.gmail.com> Florin, what does fakeroot do for you? Does that mean that you can compile as a user? I use this for a guide: http://myrddin.org/howto/debian-kernel-recompile.php Try to use the debian kernel sources if possible. 'apt-get install kernel-source-2.6.8' tar -jxvf /usr/src/kernel-source-2.6.8.tar.bz2 /usr/src cd kernel-source-2.6.8 cp /boot/config-2.6.6 ./.config make-kpkg --initrd --append-to-version -1-686-via --config menuconfig kernel_image dpkg -i ../kernel-image-2.6.8-1-686-via* On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:11:10 -0600, John T. Hoffoss wrote: > On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:04:06 -0600, Josh Close wrote: > > I think there is a kernel param you can pass when booting like doscsu > > or something. > > > > If you get booted, go into your kernel config under > > > > Device Drivers -> SCSI Device Support ->SCSI low-level drivers > > > > and compile in anything that has VIA in it, especially the VIA SATA > > drivers. Compile it in to make sure it's not a hotplug or module > > loading issue. > > Is there a trick to this? I'm comfortable with kernel compiling in > Gentoo, but the one time I tried it in Debian, it didn't work out so > well. Any Debianites have a howto, or know of one? (I've already > wasted WAY too much time trying to get this to work for me.) > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Jeff Rasmussen GPG public key 0x9686C12F -- Jeff Rasmussen GPG public key 0x9686C12F From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Fri Mar 11 15:13:06 2005 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Fri Mar 11 15:15:49 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] knoppix hd install; hw upgrade; no video In-Reply-To: <4a0cafe2050311122834720dc9@mail.gmail.com> References: <914f813c05031111206d988941@mail.gmail.com> <1469cda20503111130614b2acc@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c05031111407b5c2b90@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205031111526a7052ea@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503111155704c7438@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205031112045218fe86@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c050311121143e06460@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe2050311122834720dc9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <914f813c05031113134088e3fc@mail.gmail.com> initrd, goofy stuff in the system (well, not goofy, but not stuff I'm familiar with.) On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:28:42 -0600, Josh Close wrote: > Actually, I'm a gentoo user, so that's how I understand things..... > > Don't know why it would be any different in debian if you are > compiling your own kernel. > > -Josh > > On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:11:10 -0600, John T. Hoffoss > wrote: > > On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:04:06 -0600, Josh Close wrote: > > > I think there is a kernel param you can pass when booting like doscsu > > > or something. > > > > > > If you get booted, go into your kernel config under > > > > > > Device Drivers -> SCSI Device Support ->SCSI low-level drivers > > > > > > and compile in anything that has VIA in it, especially the VIA SATA > > > drivers. Compile it in to make sure it's not a hotplug or module > > > loading issue. > > > > Is there a trick to this? I'm comfortable with kernel compiling in > > Gentoo, but the one time I tried it in Debian, it didn't work out so > > well. Any Debianites have a howto, or know of one? (I've already > > wasted WAY too much time trying to get this to work for me.) > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- John T. Hoffoss From florin at iucha.net Fri Mar 11 15:19:55 2005 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Fri Mar 11 15:23:50 2005 Subject: Fwd: [tclug-list] knoppix hd install; hw upgrade; no video In-Reply-To: <9d6c8253050311125337d53cfa@mail.gmail.com> References: <914f813c05031111206d988941@mail.gmail.com> <1469cda20503111130614b2acc@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c05031111407b5c2b90@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205031111526a7052ea@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503111155704c7438@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205031112045218fe86@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c050311121143e06460@mail.gmail.com> <9d6c825305031112291dd5d37e@mail.gmail.com> <9d6c8253050311125337d53cfa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050311211955.GC27037@iucha.net> On Fri, Mar 11, 2005 at 02:53:52PM -0600, Jeff Rasmussen wrote: > Florin, what does fakeroot do for you? Does that mean that you can > compile as a user? Yes. > I use this for a guide: > http://myrddin.org/howto/debian-kernel-recompile.php Do not put the kernel source under /usr/src. Search Google if you want to know why. > Try to use the debian kernel sources if possible. 'apt-get install > kernel-source-2.6.8' Why? They are old... USB got significantly better since 2.6.8 for instance. And I am sure other bugs got fixed in the mainline as well. And even if you use the debian sources, do not use the debian .config. It will take hours to compile and you end up with a ton of modules you have no hardware for. > tar -jxvf /usr/src/kernel-source-2.6.8.tar.bz2 /usr/src > cd kernel-source-2.6.8 > cp /boot/config-2.6.6 ./.config # adapt old changes make oldconfig # configure for your machine make menuconfig > make-kpkg --initrd --append-to-version -1-686-via --config menuconfig > kernel_image > dpkg -i ../kernel-image-2.6.8-1-686-via* florin -- Don't question authority: they don't know either! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050311/56ceebdd/attachment-0001.pgp From nate at refried.org Fri Mar 11 15:21:00 2005 From: nate at refried.org (Nate Straz) Date: Fri Mar 11 15:23:58 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] knoppix hd install; hw upgrade; no video In-Reply-To: <20050311204443.GR10682@momentum.poptix.net> References: <914f813c05031111206d988941@mail.gmail.com> <1469cda20503111130614b2acc@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c05031111407b5c2b90@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205031111526a7052ea@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503111155704c7438@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205031112045218fe86@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c050311121143e06460@mail.gmail.com> <20050311203620.GB27037@iucha.net> <20050311204443.GR10682@momentum.poptix.net> Message-ID: <20050311212100.GA1787@refried.org> On Fri, Mar 11, 2005 at 02:44:43PM -0600, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > On Fri, Mar 11, 2005 at 02:36:20PM -0600, Florin Iucha wrote: > > apt-get install fakeroot kernel-package libncurses5-dev > > #extract kernel > > #configure kernel > > fakeroot make-kpkg --revision=custom1 kernel-image > > #get coffee > > su - > > dpkg -i ../kernel-image-$VER_custom1_i386.deb > > Sounds complicated. > > # wget kernel.org/linux-foo.tbz2 > # extract > # zcat /proc/config.gz > .config ; make menuconfig > # make install modules_install /me knows he shouldn't feed the troll The difference is that Florin's kernel is managed by the package manager and yours is not. After a few kernel upgrades Florin can `dpkg -r kernel-image-$VER` and have a clean system. You'll have to walk around and remove the kernel, system map, and modules by hand. What's the point of using a distro with a package manager if you're just going to dirty the system with unpackaged files? Nate From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Fri Mar 11 15:37:35 2005 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Fri Mar 11 15:41:48 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] knoppix hd install; hw upgrade; no video In-Reply-To: <20050311203620.GB27037@iucha.net> References: <914f813c05031111206d988941@mail.gmail.com> <1469cda20503111130614b2acc@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c05031111407b5c2b90@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205031111526a7052ea@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503111155704c7438@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205031112045218fe86@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c050311121143e06460@mail.gmail.com> <20050311203620.GB27037@iucha.net> Message-ID: <914f813c050311133726fcec44@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:36:20 -0600, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Fri, Mar 11, 2005 at 02:11:10PM -0600, John T. Hoffoss wrote: > > Is there a trick to this? I'm comfortable with kernel compiling in > > Gentoo, but the one time I tried it in Debian, it didn't work out so > > well. Any Debianites have a howto, or know of one? (I've already > > wasted WAY too much time trying to get this to work for me.) > > apt-get install fakeroot kernel-package libncurses5-dev > #extract kernel > #configure kernel > fakeroot make-kpkg --revision=custom1 kernel-image > #get coffee > su - > dpkg -i ../kernel-image-$VER_custom1_i386.deb You just use the vanilla source from kernel.org? Where can I get my current 2.6 config from, since there's no /proc/config.gz? (Can I get that?) From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Fri Mar 11 15:38:23 2005 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Fri Mar 11 15:41:55 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] knoppix hd install; hw upgrade; no video In-Reply-To: <914f813c050311133726fcec44@mail.gmail.com> References: <914f813c05031111206d988941@mail.gmail.com> <1469cda20503111130614b2acc@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c05031111407b5c2b90@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205031111526a7052ea@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503111155704c7438@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205031112045218fe86@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c050311121143e06460@mail.gmail.com> <20050311203620.GB27037@iucha.net> <914f813c050311133726fcec44@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <914f813c05031113383c0a3e33@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:37:35 -0600, John T. Hoffoss wrote: > On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:36:20 -0600, Florin Iucha wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 11, 2005 at 02:11:10PM -0600, John T. Hoffoss wrote: > > > Is there a trick to this? I'm comfortable with kernel compiling in > > > Gentoo, but the one time I tried it in Debian, it didn't work out so > > > well. Any Debianites have a howto, or know of one? (I've already > > > wasted WAY too much time trying to get this to work for me.) > > > > apt-get install fakeroot kernel-package libncurses5-dev > > #extract kernel > > #configure kernel > > fakeroot make-kpkg --revision=custom1 kernel-image > > #get coffee > > su - > > dpkg -i ../kernel-image-$VER_custom1_i386.deb > > You just use the vanilla source from kernel.org? Where can I get my > current 2.6 config from, since there's no /proc/config.gz? (Can I get > that?) Forget the config question; I just saw it's in /boot. From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Sun Mar 13 18:37:05 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Sun Mar 13 18:40:22 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux without GNU? How? In-Reply-To: References: <200503092131.16941.dave@math.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Mike Miller wrote: > On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Dave Carlson wrote: > >> On Wednesday 09 March 2005 20:03, Mike Miller wrote: >>> I really want to hear from the people who say they run Linux without GNU >>> - >>> where do you get the programs to replace ls, cp, mv, rm, mkdir, etc.? >>> What do you use instead? >> >> For starters, you can run busybox. > > That's interesting. I hadn't heard of it before. I guess the point of > it is to make a very small system that will work inside little devices. > Did they write it from scratch or did they use GNU code? It definitely > has a very GNUish origin because it is GPL'd and Bruce Perens wrote it > for the Debian project: > > http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT6143283999.html > > Thanks for the tip. I wrote to Eric Andersen, Busybox lead developer, and he wrote back (quite quickly, in fact) to say that "Busybox was generally written from scratch. Some bits of pieces however do borrow from GNU code when it made sense to do so." See his message below. So even Busybox is part GNU inside. Mike Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 17:14:53 -0700 From: Erik Andersen [andersen at codepoet dot org] To: Mike Miller Subject: Re: Busybox - no GNU inside? On Sun Mar 13, 2005 at 05:41:06PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote: > Dr. Andersen-- > > Sorry to bother you - I've looked all over the 'net for an answer, but > haven't found one. Were any components of Busybox written using GNU code > (e.g., from coreultils), or was Busybox written entirely from scratch? For the most part, Busybox was generally written from scratch. Some bits of pieces however do borrow from GNU code when it made sense to do so, -Erik -- Erik B. Andersen http://codepoet-consulting.com/ --This message was written using 73% post-consumer electrons-- I From wilson at visi.com Sun Mar 13 20:01:02 2005 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Sun Mar 13 20:04:23 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] MySQL migration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey everybody, I'm about to try getting those databases installed. It looks like it might be more trouble than I thought because they were created on MySQL 4.0.x (Debian testing) and now I'm running MySQL 4.1.x on RHEL4. I have a Debian testing box at home so I'm thinking it might be best to copy them to that box and then do a proper export. I figure that might increase the odds of getting a working system out of it in the end. A couple questions: 1. I have WordPress installed at home and it was installed on the crashed server too. Both databases are called "wordpress". Can I rename either of them before copying the data into /var/lib/mysql where the database tables live? 2. How does the "mysql" database fit into this? If I copy some database tables in /var/lib/mysql do I need to modify the mysql database to make the new database available? Thanks for all the help so far. -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 blog: http://technosavvy.org/ From tclug at greatlakedata.com Sun Mar 13 22:17:46 2005 From: tclug at greatlakedata.com (greg wm) Date: Sun Mar 13 22:22:25 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] reject spam per user prefs? Message-ID: <4235106A.6020705@greatlakedata.com> hi tickeluggers, we want our server to give the user the ability to opt out of spam rejection, or ajdust the spamlevel which triggers rejection. are these things reasonably done? in postfix? or better to switch to exim? so far we have postfix/saslauthd/courier-imap working, so far so good. but, about the spam.. according to what i have read so far, i can invoke spamassassin from a postfix filter, which can choose to reject. or i can invoke from procmail or maildrop, which can make use of user prefs. but not both? what i've read so far leaves me with the impression this is difficult in postfix, and if i'm intent on it i need to switch to exim. it that true? tiafah, greg wm IT Coordinator NonviolentPeaceforce.org From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Mon Mar 14 08:57:37 2005 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Mar 14 09:00:31 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] MySQL migration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050314145737.GA28015@mail.el-swifto.com> On Sun, Mar 13, 2005 at 08:01:02PM -0600, Tim Wilson wrote: > I'm about to try getting those databases installed. It looks like it might > be more trouble than I thought because they were created on MySQL 4.0.x > (Debian testing) and now I'm running MySQL 4.1.x on RHEL4. I have a Debian > testing box at home so I'm thinking it might be best to copy them to that > box and then do a proper export. I figure that might increase the odds of > getting a working system out of it in the end. A couple questions: > > 1. I have WordPress installed at home and it was installed on the crashed > server too. Both databases are called "wordpress". Can I rename either of > them before copying the data into /var/lib/mysql where the database tables > live? I think this should work--e.g. create directory 'wordpress2' in your database directory and put your files in there. Before doing anything I'd read the online docs on upgrading at: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/mysql/en/upgrade.html > 2. How does the "mysql" database fit into this? If I copy some database > tables in /var/lib/mysql do I need to modify the mysql database to make the > new database available? You shouldn't need to alter the "mysql" database for this unless you're planning on using a user whose permissions disallow access to the new database. -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 From natecars at real-time.com Mon Mar 14 09:57:52 2005 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Mar 14 10:00:32 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] reject spam per user prefs? In-Reply-To: <4235106A.6020705@greatlakedata.com> References: <4235106A.6020705@greatlakedata.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Mar 2005, greg wm wrote: > so far we have postfix/saslauthd/courier-imap working, so far so good. > but, about the spam.. > > according to what i have read so far, i can invoke spamassassin from a > postfix filter, which can choose to reject. > > or i can invoke from procmail or maildrop, which can make use of user > prefs. > > but not both? > > what i've read so far leaves me with the impression this is difficult in > postfix, and if i'm intent on it i need to switch to exim. it that > true? A few comments on this: - With Exim, you should be able to hack up the calls to spamd to pass the proper username to spamd. I'm not quite sure what's required to make this work, but the Exiscan documentation should be helpful. - I'd imagine this is also possible with Postfix, since it appers to use spamc for it's calls to SpamAssassin. If you don't get a response on this list, I'd try the postfix list. - I've patched up Mimedefang to support reading per-user preferences out of an LDAP database, which could easily be extended to support a SQL backend. The info is available here: http://www.natecarlson.com/linux/mimedefang-ldap-prefs.php Mimedefang is a Milter app, so Sendmail is a requirement. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From josh at tcbug.org Mon Mar 14 10:28:40 2005 From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel) Date: Mon Mar 14 10:32:33 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] reject spam per user prefs? In-Reply-To: References: <4235106A.6020705@greatlakedata.com> Message-ID: <200503141028.40548.josh@tcbug.org> On Monday 14 March 2005 09:57, Nate Carlson wrote: > On Sun, 13 Mar 2005, greg wm wrote: > > so far we have postfix/saslauthd/courier-imap working, so far so > > good. but, about the spam.. > > > > according to what i have read so far, i can invoke spamassassin > > from a postfix filter, which can choose to reject. > > > > or i can invoke from procmail or maildrop, which can make use of > > user prefs. > > > > but not both? > > > > what i've read so far leaves me with the impression this is > > difficult in postfix, and if i'm intent on it i need to switch to > > exim. it that true? > > A few comments on this: > > - With Exim, you should be able to hack up the calls to spamd to > pass the proper username to spamd. I'm not quite sure what's > required to make this work, but the Exiscan documentation should be > helpful. > > - I'd imagine this is also possible with Postfix, since it appers > to use spamc for it's calls to SpamAssassin. If you don't get a > response on this list, I'd try the postfix list. > > - I've patched up Mimedefang to support reading per-user > preferences out of an LDAP database, which could easily be extended > to support a SQL backend. The info is available here: > > http://www.natecarlson.com/linux/mimedefang-ldap-prefs.php > > Mimedefang is a Milter app, so Sendmail is a requirement. If memory serves you can use per-user procmailrc files and tune the spam "level" independantly with postfix using procmail for local delivery. -- Thanks, Josh Paetzel From natecars at real-time.com Mon Mar 14 10:35:39 2005 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Mar 14 10:39:30 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] reject spam per user prefs? In-Reply-To: <200503141028.40548.josh@tcbug.org> References: <4235106A.6020705@greatlakedata.com> <200503141028.40548.josh@tcbug.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Mar 2005, Josh Paetzel wrote: > If memory serves you can use per-user procmailrc files and tune the spam > "level" independantly with postfix using procmail for local delivery. Yeah - that sounds like the way he's doing it now, but he wants to be able to reject messages that are tagged as spam (instead of just tagging them), which has to be done at the MTA level. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From florin at iucha.net Mon Mar 14 11:00:17 2005 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Mar 14 11:04:32 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] XFree86 on Ultra Sparc using Linux 2.6? Message-ID: <20050314170017.GC22854@iucha.net> Hello, Over the week-end I was trying to get Debian testing on my Ultra1 workstation. Debian installed fine but failed to boot afterwards due to some problems with initrd on Ultras. I got around that by building a monolithic kernel, then moved on to tweaking the user space. I have installed X, but I have a strange problem: the keyboard is all messed up: you push one key and it displays something else. The googling turned up some "yeah, *that problem*" but no simple HOWTO. The keyboard works fine in the console. So, if anybody on this list has XFree86 running on a 2.6 kernel on a Ultra, please post whatever you needed to do to make it work. Thank you, florin -- Don't question authority: they don't know either! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050314/a6f3daa7/attachment.pgp From jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com Mon Mar 14 12:59:57 2005 From: jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com (Jeff Rasmussen) Date: Tue Mar 15 02:24:43 2005 Subject: Fwd: [tclug-list] knoppix hd install; hw upgrade; no video In-Reply-To: <20050311211955.GC27037@iucha.net> References: <914f813c05031111206d988941@mail.gmail.com> <1469cda20503111130614b2acc@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c05031111407b5c2b90@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205031111526a7052ea@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503111155704c7438@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205031112045218fe86@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c050311121143e06460@mail.gmail.com> <9d6c825305031112291dd5d37e@mail.gmail.com> <9d6c8253050311125337d53cfa@mail.gmail.com> <20050311211955.GC27037@iucha.net> Message-ID: <9d6c825305031410596d361533@mail.gmail.com> > Do not put the kernel source under /usr/src. Search Google if you want > to know why. > I searched Google and found that the Debian Reference manual suggests that /usr/src is the correct location. I couldn't find any reason not to have the kernel compiled from /usr/src/. http://www.google.com/search?q=Do%20not%20put%20the%20kernel%20source%20under%20%2Fusr%2Fsrc http://www.sdn.or.id/share/Debian-Doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch-kernel.en.html#s-kernel-debian From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Tue Mar 15 08:08:54 2005 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Tue Mar 15 08:12:47 2005 Subject: Fwd: [tclug-list] knoppix hd install; hw upgrade; no video In-Reply-To: <9d6c825305031410596d361533@mail.gmail.com> References: <1469cda20503111130614b2acc@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c05031111407b5c2b90@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205031111526a7052ea@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503111155704c7438@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205031112045218fe86@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c050311121143e06460@mail.gmail.com> <9d6c825305031112291dd5d37e@mail.gmail.com> <9d6c8253050311125337d53cfa@mail.gmail.com> <20050311211955.GC27037@iucha.net> <9d6c825305031410596d361533@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050315140854.GA30518@mail.el-swifto.com> On Mon, Mar 14, 2005 at 12:59:57PM -0600, Jeff Rasmussen wrote: >> Do not put the kernel source under /usr/src. Search Google if you want >> to know why. > > I searched Google and found that the Debian Reference manual suggests > that /usr/src is the correct location. I couldn't find any reason not > to have the kernel compiled from /usr/src/. It's my understanding that it's frowned upon to build the kernel as root; instead you should build it as a non-root user. So you should build it in your local user directory. I see that the debian docs do indeed show building as root in /usr/src: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch-kernel.en.html#s-kernel-classic As far as *putting* it in /usr/src, since that's where apt-get puts it, I doubt it will cause problems on a debian system. -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota From aintboeingaintgoing at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 09:07:04 2005 From: aintboeingaintgoing at gmail.com (Steve Swantz) Date: Tue Mar 15 09:10:47 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Two ethernet jacks on one cable Message-ID: <17f6da2505031507075a29530c@mail.gmail.com> Hey guys, Just out of curiosity... and limited space in the smurf tube... Since ethernet only requires 4 wires and cat5 comes with 8, can you wire two jacks from one cable, using two twisted pairs to each jack, or are there any interference/performance issues involved? It would rule out power over ethernet, but I haven't had any need for that yet. Would using one twisted pair for a phone line and two others of the same cable for ethernet result in network noise when the phone rings, or is the wire twist sufficient to reduce interference? Thanks, Steve From erikerik at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 09:18:44 2005 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Tue Mar 15 09:22:48 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Two ethernet jacks on one cable In-Reply-To: <17f6da2505031507075a29530c@mail.gmail.com> References: <17f6da2505031507075a29530c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:07:04 -0600, Steve Swantz wrote: > > Since ethernet only requires 4 wires and cat5 comes with 8, can you > wire two jacks from one cable, using two twisted pairs to each jack, > or are there any interference/performance issues involved? This is definitely possible, as we have recently had to do this at work in a few places. (don't ask...it's one of the ramifications of working in a 100+ year old building). Anwyays - it works great. I can't remember the exact pinouts right now, but I'll go grab one of the cables we made and get back to you with the pinouts. -Erik From erikerik at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 10:13:00 2005 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Tue Mar 15 10:16:48 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Two ethernet jacks on one cable In-Reply-To: References: <17f6da2505031507075a29530c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:18:44 -0600, Erik Anderson wrote: > > Anwyays - it works great. I can't remember the exact pinouts right > now, but I'll go grab one of the cables we made and get back to you > with the pinouts. Okay - here's the deal: Crimp down the orange and green pairs as you normally would with a standard cable. For the second line, use the brown and blue pairs, crimped down in the same locations as the corresponding orange and green pairs in the first line. Does that make sense? Just make sure you get the pair orders right on both ends of the cable, and you should be fine. We made several of these, which plug into the patchbay end of the dual cables. They split the non-standard pairs back out to "standard" ethernet plugs, which we then uplink to the switch... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/anderiv/IMG_2678.jpg -Erik From tclug at greatlakedata.com Tue Mar 15 10:24:11 2005 From: tclug at greatlakedata.com (greg wm) Date: Tue Mar 15 10:28:48 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] reject spam per user prefs? In-Reply-To: <17f6da2505031407542202d910@mail.gmail.com> References: <4235106A.6020705@greatlakedata.com> <17f6da2505031407542202d910@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <42370C2B.5080603@greatlakedata.com> Steve Swantz wrote: > Maia Mailguard might be of interest to you. http://www.renaissoft.com/maia maia looks very interesting. however it seems to be oriented the same way as most anti-spam software, around receiving and saving spam for users to examine. this is mysterious to me. i don't mind giving this capability to our users, but i believe the better default action for most of our users is for the spam to be REJECTed, not received nor stored, hence eliminating the onerouus task of reviewing it. REJECT means the sender knows we aren't reading it, and if they choose to bother, they can try harder to somehow get the message through. still, if maia can allow me to set things up this way, it could well be a boon for facilitating easy user whitelist management, so for example desirable mailing list messages won't get rejected. would maia work as i describe? would anomy sanitizer add in easily via maia? or is anomy obviated by a maia system? thank you! greg -- Greg Whitley Mott IT Coordinator NonviolentPeaceforce.org From sfertch at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 10:59:09 2005 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Tue Mar 15 11:02:49 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Implementation of OpenSSH across platforms (and versions) Message-ID: <67f3084a05031508591309677a@mail.gmail.com> We're in the middle of implementing SSH, and a concern was raised. I'm still in the process of finding an answer, but wanted to find out from others how they did it. Scenario: -- Multiple *nix platforms: HP-UX, AIX, Solaris, Linux (RHELv3), and Tru64(ssh2) -- Different versions between platforms: -- HP-UX OpenSSH 3.9 -- AIX OpenSSH 3.8 -- Solaris OpenSSH 3.7(?) -- RHEL OpenSSH 3.6.1p2 -- Tru64 SSH2 v3.2.3 The concern is whether or not an OpenSSH sshd_config file can be standardized, and implemented across the various systems/platforms with OpenSSH. At the moment, SSH2 isn't part of the scope. Some here are saying it's possible. I've taken the stance that it's not good business practice to build a single sshd_config file for all platforms. Instead, I'm proposing one sshd_config per platform. So, at the moment, I have the task of proving my point about building per platform/version being the correct way to do it. Anyone have any thoughts or insights into one way or the other? Thanks. -- -Shawn -Nemo me impune lacessit. Ne Obliviscaris.. From ringert at consumption.net Tue Mar 15 12:14:28 2005 From: ringert at consumption.net (Torleiv Flatebo Ringer) Date: Tue Mar 15 12:18:49 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Implementation of OpenSSH across platforms (and versions) In-Reply-To: <67f3084a05031508591309677a@mail.gmail.com> References: <67f3084a05031508591309677a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: It may be easier if you templated the different configs for each platform, and use a source file for the elements that you need to appear in the various sshd_config files. Then you have the ability to "forget" the syntax of each platform. I have used Template::Toolkit for a variety of tasks. It's pretty easy to use. torleiv what you said > We're in the middle of implementing SSH, and a concern was raised. > I'm still in the process of finding an answer, but wanted to find out > from others how they did it. > > Scenario: > -- Multiple *nix platforms: HP-UX, AIX, Solaris, Linux (RHELv3), and > Tru64(ssh2) > -- Different versions between platforms: > -- HP-UX OpenSSH 3.9 > -- AIX OpenSSH 3.8 > -- Solaris OpenSSH 3.7(?) > -- RHEL OpenSSH 3.6.1p2 > -- Tru64 SSH2 v3.2.3 > > > The concern is whether or not an OpenSSH sshd_config file can be > standardized, and implemented across the various systems/platforms > with OpenSSH. At the moment, SSH2 isn't part of the scope. > > Some here are saying it's possible. I've taken the stance that it's > not good business practice to build a single sshd_config file for all > platforms. Instead, I'm proposing one sshd_config per platform. So, > at the moment, I have the task of proving my point about building per > platform/version being the correct way to do it. > > Anyone have any thoughts or insights into one way or the other? > > > Thanks. > > -- One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important. Don't be so confident - you are not that great. From sfertch at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 12:23:45 2005 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Tue Mar 15 12:26:49 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Implementation of OpenSSH across platforms (and versions) In-Reply-To: References: <67f3084a05031508591309677a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <67f3084a05031510231a7def65@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:14:28 -0800 (PST), Torleiv Flatebo Ringer wrote: > It may be easier if you templated the different configs for each > platform, and use a source file for the elements that you need to appear > in the various sshd_config files. > > Then you have the ability to "forget" the syntax of each platform. > > I have used Template::Toolkit for a variety of tasks. It's pretty easy > to use. I'm not familiar with what you're proposing, but how is that easier than editing 5 lines in an existing sshd_config file and propogating it across the systems in the same platform? Granted, this would have to be done on a platform by platform basis, but IMO I think it's easier to modify/config that way. Any other thoughts? -- -Shawn -Nemo me impune lacessit. Ne Obliviscaris.. From sfertch at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 12:23:45 2005 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Tue Mar 15 12:26:55 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Implementation of OpenSSH across platforms (and versions) In-Reply-To: References: <67f3084a05031508591309677a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <67f3084a05031510231a7def65@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:14:28 -0800 (PST), Torleiv Flatebo Ringer wrote: > It may be easier if you templated the different configs for each > platform, and use a source file for the elements that you need to appear > in the various sshd_config files. > > Then you have the ability to "forget" the syntax of each platform. > > I have used Template::Toolkit for a variety of tasks. It's pretty easy > to use. I'm not familiar with what you're proposing, but how is that easier than editing 5 lines in an existing sshd_config file and propogating it across the systems in the same platform? Granted, this would have to be done on a platform by platform basis, but IMO I think it's easier to modify/config that way. Any other thoughts? -- -Shawn -Nemo me impune lacessit. Ne Obliviscaris.. From bellsoffreedom at animail.net Tue Mar 15 12:43:31 2005 From: bellsoffreedom at animail.net (Nick) Date: Tue Mar 15 12:32:49 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Partition Question Message-ID: <1095105DB24B64B40B33181447627809@bellsoffreedom.animail.net> Thanks again for all your help everyone with my PSCP issue. Got another question . . . On my Linux laptop I've got a 10G harddrive. Only about 5 gigs are being used because I used to have a windows partition on it. I took Windows off, but the partition still exists. When I check my space with something like KDiskFree it says total space is 5.4 gigs. So it's not "seeing" the other half of the drive. Is there any way to delete that "empty" partition so I have more room? I want to put more stuff on Linux, such as the new Gnome and KDE and want the space. I've looked at the partition manager, but I'm afraid to delete the swap partitions, or anything else, for that matter. What should I NOT touch so I don't mess up my current Linux partition? I'd rather not re-install because I don't want to risk running into problems trying to network it again. Thank you, Nick Scholtes ?Take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim.? ~ Elie Wiesel View my blog & artwork! *********************** http://artandprose.blogspot.com/ http://www.Care2.com Free e-mail. 100MB storage. Helps charities. Make a Difference: Stop Canada's cruel and senseless baby seal hunt! http://www.care2.com/go/z/saveseals From josh at joshwelch.com Tue Mar 15 12:51:39 2005 From: josh at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch) Date: Tue Mar 15 12:54:50 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Two ethernet jacks on one cable In-Reply-To: References: <17f6da2505031507075a29530c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050315125139.aq1ryfgw7ji8sgsc@moose.joshwelch.com> Quoting Erik Anderson : > On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:07:04 -0600, Steve Swantz > wrote: >> >> Since ethernet only requires 4 wires and cat5 comes with 8, can you >> wire two jacks from one cable, using two twisted pairs to each jack, >> or are there any interference/performance issues involved? > > This is definitely possible, as we have recently had to do this at > work in a few places. (don't ask...it's one of the ramifications of > working in a 100+ year old building). > > Anwyays - it works great. I can't remember the exact pinouts right > now, but I'll go grab one of the cables we made and get back to you > with the pinouts. > > -Erik > While it will technically work, you're kind of asking for trouble. This is the type of arrangement that can end up with weird network errors that are hard to reproduce. This type of arragement was more popular, and more feasible, when people where running 10BaseT ethernet. Fast ethernet depends a lot more on the properties of the electro-magnetic field created by data moving through the cat-5 in a specific fashion. Introducing a different field into the mix in the form of the phone signalling can cause problems. Josh From ringert at consumption.net Tue Mar 15 12:56:55 2005 From: ringert at consumption.net (Torleiv Flatebo Ringer) Date: Tue Mar 15 13:00:50 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Implementation of OpenSSH across platforms (and versions) In-Reply-To: <67f3084a05031510231a7def65@mail.gmail.com> References: <67f3084a05031508591309677a@mail.gmail.com> <67f3084a05031510231a7def65@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: "I've taken the stance that it's not good business practice to build a single sshd_config file for all platforms. Instead, I'm proposing one sshd_config per platform." If you have shared config elements that span across all of the platforms, then it makes sense to template the commonalities. Otherwise if they are different enough then treat them all separately. Let's say you have the same LoginGraceTime value for each platform. You would change one file that would then generate all of your configs with the same value. Source file: LoginGraceTime 600 PermitRootLogin no Target template 1: LoginGraceTime [% logingracetime %] PermitRootLogin [% permitrootlogin %] MyOSSpecificStanza1 MyOSSpecificValue1 Target template 2: LoginGraceTime [% logingracetime %] PermitRootLogin [% permitrootlogin %] MyOSSpecificStanza2 MyOSSpecificValue2 Target template 3: LoginGraceTime 300 PermitRootLogin yes MyOSSpecificStanza1 MyOSSpecificValue1 This is a way to reduce human error, and is useful when you have large numbers of machines to update. The whole thing can be scripted and forgotten about. We generate our Apache configs in this fashion. If you have a small number of machines, then this approach is not the most efficient method. torleiv what you said > On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:14:28 -0800 (PST), Torleiv Flatebo Ringer > wrote: > > It may be easier if you templated the different configs for each > > platform, and use a source file for the elements that you need to appear > > in the various sshd_config files. > > > > Then you have the ability to "forget" the syntax of each platform. > > > > I have used Template::Toolkit for a variety of tasks. It's pretty easy > > to use. > > I'm not familiar with what you're proposing, but how is that easier > than editing 5 lines in an existing sshd_config file and propogating > it across the systems in the same platform? > > Granted, this would have to be done on a platform by platform basis, > but IMO I think it's easier to modify/config that way. > > Any other thoughts? > > > -- One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important. Don't be so confident - you are not that great. From SDALAN04 at smumn.edu Tue Mar 15 12:57:44 2005 From: SDALAN04 at smumn.edu (David Alanis) Date: Tue Mar 15 13:00:56 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Partition Question Message-ID: <20050315185744060147dcfa@mail.smumn.edu> Hey Nick, you can use fdisk or (hfdisk)..<--not sure! In your command prompt you can view your partition table by using #>fdisk /dev/hd?? /this will run fdisk so you can view all your partitions, the command is (p) for print. (m) will display all the commands. Rember that after you delete, create, and motify you will have to edit your /etc/fstab if you want it to used by your OS, btw, what are you running..? On Tuesday, March 15, 2005 12:43 PM, Nick wrote: > >Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 12:43:31 -0600 >From: Nick >To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org >Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Partition Question > >Thanks again for all your help everyone with my PSCP issue. Got >another question . . . > >On my Linux laptop I've got a 10G harddrive. Only about 5 gigs are >being used because I used to have a windows partition on it. I took >Windows off, but the partition still exists. When I check my space >with something like KDiskFree it says total space is 5.4 gigs. So >it's not "seeing" the other half of the drive. > >Is there any way to delete that "empty" partition so I have more >room? I want to put more stuff on Linux, such as the new Gnome and >KDE and want the space. I've looked at the partition manager, but >I'm afraid to delete the swap partitions, or anything else, for that >matter. > >What should I NOT touch so I don't mess up my current Linux >partition? >I'd rather not re-install because I don't want to risk running into >problems trying to network it again. > >Thank you, >Nick Scholtes > > >?Take sides. Neutrality helps the >oppressor, never the victim.? >~ Elie Wiesel > >View my blog & artwork! >*********************** >http://artandprose.blogspot.com/ >http://www.Care2.com Free e-mail. 100MB storage. Helps charities. > >Make a Difference: Stop Canada's cruel and senseless baby seal hunt! >http://www.care2.com/go/z/saveseals > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list Why does the Air Force need expensive new bombers? Have the people we've been bombing over the years been complaining? George Wallace "Cuanta estupidez en tan poco cerebro!" From SDALAN04 at smumn.edu Tue Mar 15 13:05:26 2005 From: SDALAN04 at smumn.edu (David Alanis) Date: Tue Mar 15 13:08:50 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Partition Question Message-ID: <20050315190526000147dd56@mail.smumn.edu> Hey Nick, you can use fdisk or (hfdisk)..<--not sure! In your command prompt you can view your partition table by using #>fdisk /dev/hd?? (if your not shure what your hard drive is labeled use (df) which will display most of the information you need) /this will run fdisk so you can view all your partitions, the command is (p) for print to view your partition table. (m) will display all the commands you can use with fdisk. Rember that after you delete, create, and motify your hard drive you will have to edit your /etc/fstab if you want these new partitions to be used by your OS, btw, what are you running..? In addition, if you mess-up, just press (q) quit this will not save any changes to your partition table, unless you use (w) write. Good luck and sorry for my first un-finished post. >On Tuesday, March 15, 2005 12:43 PM, Nick wrote: >> >>Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 12:43:31 -0600 >>From: Nick >>To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Partition Question >> >>Thanks again for all your help everyone with my PSCP issue. Got >>another question . . . >> >>On my Linux laptop I've got a 10G harddrive. Only about 5 gigs are >>being used because I used to have a windows partition on it. I took >>Windows off, but the partition still exists. When I check my space >>with something like KDiskFree it says total space is 5.4 gigs. So >>it's not "seeing" the other half of the drive. >> >>Is there any way to delete that "empty" partition so I have more >>room? I want to put more stuff on Linux, such as the new Gnome and >>KDE and want the space. I've looked at the partition manager, but >>I'm afraid to delete the swap partitions, or anything else, for that >>matter. >> >>What should I NOT touch so I don't mess up my current Linux >>partition? >>I'd rather not re-install because I don't want to risk running into >>problems trying to network it again. >> >>Thank you, >>Nick Scholtes >> >> >>?Take sides. Neutrality helps the >>oppressor, never the victim.? >>~ Elie Wiesel >> >>View my blog & artwork! >>*********************** >>http://artandprose.blogspot.com/ >>http://www.Care2.com Free e-mail. 100MB storage. Helps charities. >> >>Make a Difference: Stop Canada's cruel and senseless baby seal hunt! >>http://www.care2.com/go/z/saveseals >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > >Why does the Air Force need expensive new bombers? Have the people we've been bombing over the years been complaining? George Wallace > >"Cuanta estupidez en tan poco cerebro!" Why does the Air Force need expensive new bombers? Have the people we've been bombing over the years been complaining? George Wallace "Cuanta estupidez en tan poco cerebro!" From sfertch at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 13:17:11 2005 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Tue Mar 15 13:20:54 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Implementation of OpenSSH across platforms (and versions) In-Reply-To: References: <67f3084a05031508591309677a@mail.gmail.com> <67f3084a05031510231a7def65@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <67f3084a050315111762534aac@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:56:55 -0800 (PST), Torleiv Flatebo Ringer wrote: > If you have shared config elements that span across all of the > platforms, then it makes sense to template the commonalities. Otherwise > if they are different enough then treat them all separately. > > Let's say you have the same LoginGraceTime value for each platform. You > would change one file that would then generate all of your configs with > the same value. > > Source file: > > LoginGraceTime 600 > PermitRootLogin no > > Target template 1: > > LoginGraceTime [% logingracetime %] > PermitRootLogin [% permitrootlogin %] > MyOSSpecificStanza1 MyOSSpecificValue1 > > Target template 2: > > LoginGraceTime [% logingracetime %] > PermitRootLogin [% permitrootlogin %] > MyOSSpecificStanza2 MyOSSpecificValue2 > > Target template 3: > > LoginGraceTime 300 > PermitRootLogin yes > MyOSSpecificStanza1 MyOSSpecificValue1 > Interesting.. We have about 100+ servers to do this to. Where can I find more documentation on it, and in a quick overview what else needs to be installed to make it work? I'm already facing strict opposition of implementing SSH (DON'T ASK!!!). If anything else besides the packages required for SSH needs to be installed, I might as well kiss SSH implementation goodbye. -- -Shawn -Nemo me impune lacessit. Ne Obliviscaris.. From jima at beer.tclug.org Tue Mar 15 13:39:06 2005 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Tue Mar 15 13:42:50 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Implementation of OpenSSH across platforms (and versions) In-Reply-To: <67f3084a050315111762534aac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Mar 2005, Shawn Fertch wrote: > I'm already facing strict opposition of implementing SSH (DON'T > ASK!!!). If anything else besides the packages required for SSH needs > to be installed, I might as well kiss SSH implementation goodbye. OpenSSL? Jima From smac at visi.com Tue Mar 15 13:42:08 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Tue Mar 15 13:44:50 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Two ethernet jacks on one cable In-Reply-To: <20050315125139.aq1ryfgw7ji8sgsc@moose.joshwelch.com> References: <17f6da2505031507075a29530c@mail.gmail.com> <20050315125139.aq1ryfgw7ji8sgsc@moose.joshwelch.com> Message-ID: <42373A90.8000204@visi.com> Yes it will work. With that said run it slow 10 mbit, 100 mbit would be ok, but I don't know about 1000 mbit. Use really good solid core wire cat5e. Maybe it's time for a wireless or a wireless bridge. Sam. Josh Welch wrote: > Quoting Erik Anderson : > >> On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:07:04 -0600, Steve Swantz >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Since ethernet only requires 4 wires and cat5 comes with 8, can you >>> wire two jacks from one cable, using two twisted pairs to each jack, >>> or are there any interference/performance issues involved? >> >> >> This is definitely possible, as we have recently had to do this at >> work in a few places. (don't ask...it's one of the ramifications of >> working in a 100+ year old building). >> >> Anwyays - it works great. I can't remember the exact pinouts right >> now, but I'll go grab one of the cables we made and get back to you >> with the pinouts. >> >> -Erik >> > > While it will technically work, you're kind of asking for trouble. > This is the > type of arrangement that can end up with weird network errors that are > hard to > reproduce. This type of arragement was more popular, and more > feasible, when > people where running 10BaseT ethernet. Fast ethernet depends a lot > more on the > properties of the electro-magnetic field created by data moving > through the > cat-5 in a specific fashion. Introducing a different field into the > mix in the > form of the phone signalling can cause problems. > > Josh > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.2 - Release Date: 3/11/2005 From strayf at freeshell.org Tue Mar 15 13:43:34 2005 From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steven Cayford) Date: Tue Mar 15 13:48:50 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Partition Question In-Reply-To: <1095105DB24B64B40B33181447627809@bellsoffreedom.animail.net> References: <1095105DB24B64B40B33181447627809@bellsoffreedom.animail.net> Message-ID: <20050315194334.GB22066@callisto-acss.acad.umn.edu> To get an idea of what the partitions are try running -- as root -- "fdisk -l /dev/hda" (assuming your drive is hda, which it probably is). Then to see how the partitions are being used try "cat /etc/fstab". Why don't you post the results of those two commands so we know what you're looking at. Depending on how things are laid out it may be fairly simple to use "parted" to expand your current partition(s) into the unused space. -Steve From erikerik at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 13:48:10 2005 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Tue Mar 15 13:51:45 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Two ethernet jacks on one cable In-Reply-To: <42373A90.8000204@visi.com> References: <17f6da2505031507075a29530c@mail.gmail.com> <20050315125139.aq1ryfgw7ji8sgsc@moose.joshwelch.com> <42373A90.8000204@visi.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:42:08 -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > Yes it will work. > > With that said run it slow 10 mbit, 100 mbit would be ok, but I don't > know about 1000 mbit. > Use really good solid core wire cat5e. Yup - I concur. We've been running at 100/full with no problems whatsoever. From sfertch at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 14:19:25 2005 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Tue Mar 15 14:22:51 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Implementation of OpenSSH across platforms (and versions) In-Reply-To: References: <67f3084a050315111762534aac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <67f3084a0503151219f1173d@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:39:06 -0600 (CST), Jima wrote: > On Tue, 15 Mar 2005, Shawn Fertch wrote: > > I'm already facing strict opposition of implementing SSH (DON'T > > ASK!!!). If anything else besides the packages required for SSH needs > > to be installed, I might as well kiss SSH implementation goodbye. > > OpenSSL? It's installed as part of the OpenSSH packages on most platforms. For those that it isn't, it's already been planned on as part of the SSH implementation. I was referring to installation of additional software to implement a template::toolkit solution as was mentioned previously. -- -Shawn -Nemo me impune lacessit. Ne Obliviscaris.. From natecars at real-time.com Tue Mar 15 15:06:17 2005 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Tue Mar 15 15:10:51 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Two ethernet jacks on one cable In-Reply-To: <17f6da2505031507075a29530c@mail.gmail.com> References: <17f6da2505031507075a29530c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Mar 2005, Steve Swantz wrote: > Since ethernet only requires 4 wires and cat5 comes with 8, can you wire > two jacks from one cable, using two twisted pairs to each jack, or are > there any interference/performance issues involved? It's possible, yes. I've heard of performance issues, but haven't seen them myself. However, you will not be able to run gigabit across this for sure - it uses all eight wires. In any case, I'd highly recommend against it, unless there is absolutely no option to get new cable in. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From dave at math.umn.edu Tue Mar 15 15:20:56 2005 From: dave at math.umn.edu (Dave Carlson) Date: Tue Mar 15 15:24:53 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Two ethernet jacks on one cable In-Reply-To: <17f6da2505031507075a29530c@mail.gmail.com> References: <17f6da2505031507075a29530c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200503151520.59609.dave@math.umn.edu> On Tuesday 15 March 2005 09:07 am, Steve Swantz wrote: > Would using one twisted pair for a phone line and two others of the > same cable for ethernet result in network noise when the phone rings, > or is the wire twist sufficient to reduce interference? They'll be lots of problems. Personally I wired up a 10Base-T network over phone-like cat-3 a _years_ ago, but it only barely worked (only worked on some cards, with packet loss). There wasn't a phone line there to interfere, but I can only imagine if there was. I ended up using wireless later when I needed network there again. -- -dave Dave Carlson Systems Administrator School of Mathematics, University of Minnesota http://www.math.umn.edu PGP/GPG Fingerprint: C3D0 9962 1E98 B742 132D 0E1A CE11 7C4B 5309 97A7 (visit http://www.gnupg.org for more information) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050315/daf64b3e/attachment.pgp From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Tue Mar 15 15:56:52 2005 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Tue Mar 15 16:00:01 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Implementation of OpenSSH across platforms (and versions) In-Reply-To: <67f3084a05031508591309677a@mail.gmail.com> References: <67f3084a05031508591309677a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050315155652.A17857@baker.space.umn.edu> On Tue, Mar 15, 2005 at 10:59:09AM -0600, Shawn Fertch wrote: > The concern is whether or not an OpenSSH sshd_config file can be > standardized, and implemented across the various systems/platforms > with OpenSSH. At the moment, SSH2 isn't part of the scope. > > Some here are saying it's possible. I've taken the stance that it's > not good business practice to build a single sshd_config file for all > platforms. Instead, I'm proposing one sshd_config per platform. So, > at the moment, I have the task of proving my point about building per > platform/version being the correct way to do it. It seems to me that this plan should work fine. The only differences between platforms should be platform specific path differences and differences due to running different versions of OpenSSH across the platforms. You should be able to use the same config across all boxes of a single config. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons | From JCMontz at jamestower.com Tue Mar 15 16:10:27 2005 From: JCMontz at jamestower.com (Montz, James C. (James Tower)) Date: Tue Mar 15 16:16:52 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Apache Authentication against MS SQL Server? Message-ID: <01E4A5BAEE42D411977100508BC22C9F0EDA96E4@tcexch3.taylorcorp.com> Is anyone aware of a Apache authentication module (running on Linux) to verify user credentials in a Microsoft SQL Server Table? I looked at mod_auth_dbi, but it lib_dbi does not appear to have drivers for Microsoft SQL Server. Thanks, James From pclinux at charter.net Tue Mar 15 19:14:47 2005 From: pclinux at charter.net (Carl Zeilon) Date: Tue Mar 15 19:18:53 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Two ethernet jacks on one cable In-Reply-To: <3rr9ri$p2jrb1@mxip18a.cluster1.charter.net> References: <3rr9ri$p2jrb1@mxip18a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20050315190609.028e0b00@pop.charter.net> At 03:59 PM 3/15/2005, you wrote: >On Tuesday 15 March 2005 09:07 am, Steve Swantz wrote: > > Would using one twisted pair for a phone line and two others of the > > same cable for ethernet result in network noise when the phone rings, > > or is the wire twist sufficient to reduce interference? > >They'll be lots of problems. Personally I wired up a 10Base-T network over >phone-like cat-3 a _years_ ago, but it only barely worked (only worked on >some cards, with packet loss). There wasn't a phone line there to interfere, >but I can only imagine if there was. I ended up using wireless later when I >needed network there again. > >-- >-dave > >Dave Carlson I must disagree. All the houses in our neighborhood (7-10 years old) are in fact wired this way. They use no phone wire at all, only cat 5e run through every room. I know of many people running 2 phone lines & ethernet with no problems. In my own, I run 1 phone line with 5 phones & a 4 computer network with absolutely no trouble. Carl From chewie at wookimus.net Tue Mar 15 21:28:51 2005 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Tue Mar 15 21:38:55 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Apache Authentication against MS SQL Server? In-Reply-To: <01E4A5BAEE42D411977100508BC22C9F0EDA96E4@tcexch3.taylorcorp.com> References: <01E4A5BAEE42D411977100508BC22C9F0EDA96E4@tcexch3.taylorcorp.com> Message-ID: <20050316032851.GA9221@wookimus.net> On Tue, Mar 15, 2005 at 04:10:27PM -0600, Montz, James C. (James Tower) wrote: > Is anyone aware of a Apache authentication module (running on Linux) > to verify user credentials in a Microsoft SQL Server Table? Not surprisingly, Debian doesn't list any mssql modules either: [21:21:56] chewie@skuld (501)$ apt-cache search libapache2-mod-auth libapache2-mod-auth-pgsql - Module for Apache2 which provides pgsql authentication libapache2-mod-auth-plain - Module for Apache2 which provides plaintext authentication libapache-mod-auth-mysql - Apache module for MySQL authentication libapache2-mod-auth-mysql - Apache 2 module for MySQL authentication libapache2-mod-auth-pam - module for Apache2 which authenticate using PAM libapache2-mod-auth-sys-group - Module for Apache2 which checks user against system group -- Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ From natecars at real-time.com Tue Mar 15 22:53:26 2005 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Tue Mar 15 23:00:57 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Apache Authentication against MS SQL Server? In-Reply-To: <01E4A5BAEE42D411977100508BC22C9F0EDA96E4@tcexch3.taylorcorp.com> References: <01E4A5BAEE42D411977100508BC22C9F0EDA96E4@tcexch3.taylorcorp.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Mar 2005, Montz, James C. (James Tower) wrote: > Is anyone aware of a Apache authentication module (running on Linux) to > verify user credentials in a Microsoft SQL Server Table? > > I looked at mod_auth_dbi, but it lib_dbi does not appear to have drivers > for Microsoft SQL Server. A big ugly hack would be to set up a Radius server authenticating against that table, and use the apache Radius module. Note that if lib_dbi supports Sybase, it should apparently be compatible with mssql. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From joel at joelschneider.net Tue Mar 15 18:11:14 2005 From: joel at joelschneider.net (Joel Schneider) Date: Wed Mar 16 00:32:58 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Apache Authentication against MS SQL Server? In-Reply-To: <01E4A5BAEE42D411977100508BC22C9F0EDA96E4@tcexch3.taylorcorp.com> References: <01E4A5BAEE42D411977100508BC22C9F0EDA96E4@tcexch3.taylorcorp.com> Message-ID: <20050316001114.GA14306@joelschneider.net> On Tue, Mar 15, 2005 at 04:10:27PM -0600, Montz, James C. (James Tower) wrote: > I looked at mod_auth_dbi, but it lib_dbi does not appear to have drivers > for Microsoft SQL Server. As Nate says, the Sybase driver is your best bet. Here's a link that may be of some help: http://www.freetds.org/ -- Joel Schneider joel@joelschneider.net From bellsoffreedom at animail.net Wed Mar 16 10:09:27 2005 From: bellsoffreedom at animail.net (Nick) Date: Wed Mar 16 09:57:02 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Partition Readout Message-ID: <9F70255D0DAFF404F8B8DADCFF3872AF@bellsoffreedom.animail.net> Here is the printout from my Linux box, which I'm trying to re- partition without re-installing. To review, Linux is only using half the harddrive. I want to be able to expand linux into the rest of the drive without messing anything up. Thanks! Nick dude@linux:-> su Password: linux:/home/dude # fdisk-l Disk /dev/hda: 10.0 GB, 10056130560 bytes 240 heads, 63 sectors/track, 1299 cylinders Units = cylinders of 15120 * 512 = 7741440 bytes Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/hda1 1 34 257008+ 83 Linux /dev/hda3 504 1299 6017760 f Win95 Ext'd (LBA) /dev/hda5 504 537 257008+ 82 Linux swap /dev/hda6 538 1299 5760688+ 83 Linux linux:/home/dude # cat /etc/fstab /dev/hda6 / reiserfs defaults 1 1 /dev/hda1 swap swap pri=42 0 0 /dev/hda5 swap swap pri=42 0 0 devpts /dev/pts devpts mode=0620,gid=5 0 0 proc /proc proc defaults 0 0 usbdevfs /proc/bus/usb usbdevfs noauto 0 0 /dev/cdrom /media/cdrom auto ro,noauto,user,exec 0 0 /dev/cdrom11 /rnedia/cdrornl1 auto ro,noauto,user,exec 0 0 linux:/home/dude # ************Original Msg.************** Message: 4 Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:43:34 -0600 From: Steven Cayford Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Linux Partition Question To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Message-ID: <20050315194334.GB22066@callisto-acss.acad.umn.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To get an idea of what the partitions are try running -- as root -- "fdisk -l /dev/hda" (assuming your drive is hda, which it probably is). Then to see how the partitions are being used try "cat /etc/fstab". Why don't you post the results of those two commands so we know what you're looking at. Depending on how things are laid out it may be fairly simple to use "parted" to expand your current partition(s) into the unused space. -Steve ?Take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim.? ~ Elie Wiesel View my blog & artwork! *********************** http://artandprose.blogspot.com/ http://www.Care2.com Free e-mail. 100MB storage. Helps charities. Make a Difference: Stop Canada's cruel and senseless baby seal hunt! http://www.care2.com/go/z/saveseals From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Mar 16 10:13:39 2005 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Wed Mar 16 10:23:03 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Partition Readout In-Reply-To: <9F70255D0DAFF404F8B8DADCFF3872AF@bellsoffreedom.animail.net> References: <9F70255D0DAFF404F8B8DADCFF3872AF@bellsoffreedom.animail.net> Message-ID: <20050316161339.GB4282@wookimus.net> On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 10:09:27AM -0600, Nick wrote: > Here is the printout from my Linux box, which I'm trying to re- > partition without re-installing. To review, Linux is only using half > the harddrive. I want to be able to expand linux into the rest of the > drive without messing anything up. Thanks! > Nick Install GNU parted. Boot into recovery mode or off a Knoppix CD (that has GNU parted). http://www.gnu.org/software/parted/parted.html You could do it manually with fdisk and resize_reiserfs, but parted is just plain easier. -- Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050316/469d22ab/attachment.pgp From arkajyoti at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 10:32:28 2005 From: arkajyoti at gmail.com (Arkajyoti Misra) Date: Wed Mar 16 10:37:05 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Driver for Linksys Wireless-B adapter Message-ID: <4ecba2ff0503160832c832dc9@mail.gmail.com> I convinced my colleague to try linux on his Toshiba laptop which is running on Windows only. He connects to the internet only through a wireless network. He is using a Linksys Wireless-B notebook adapter (Model WPC11 v.4). I could not find any driver for this card. Does anybody know whether it is available or where to look for it? I found a ndiswrapper driver for WPC11 but not for v.4. I am planning to install FC3 on his laptop. Thanks. Arko. From ge.fischer at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 11:30:39 2005 From: ge.fischer at gmail.com (George Fischer) Date: Wed Mar 16 11:35:19 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Driver for Linksys Wireless-B adapter In-Reply-To: <4ecba2ff0503160832c832dc9@mail.gmail.com> References: <4ecba2ff0503160832c832dc9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I recently went through the whole wireless card fiasco. I tried 5 different cards before I found the Netgear that works for me. I don't believe that the WPC11v4 has any drivers available. They changed the chipsets from prism to something else. And I don't think it is a CardBus interface (correct me if I'm wrong) so ndiswrapper isn't going to work. I tried two Linksys cards, WPC54G & WPC54GS, with ndiswrapper and neither of them worked correctly (The first worked except for WEP, and the second looked like it was working but never could receive a signal). The Netgear WG511T that I've got works perfectly (only managed and ad-hoc modes supported) with ndiswrapper. On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:32:28 -0600, Arkajyoti Misra wrote: > I convinced my colleague to try linux on his Toshiba laptop which is > running on Windows only. He connects to the internet only through a > wireless network. He is using a Linksys Wireless-B notebook adapter > (Model WPC11 v.4). I could not find any driver for this card. Does > anybody know whether it is available or where to look for it? I found > a ndiswrapper driver for WPC11 but not for v.4. I am planning to > install FC3 on his laptop. > Thanks. > > Arko. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- George Fischer Minneapolis From strayf at freeshell.org Wed Mar 16 11:41:35 2005 From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steven Cayford) Date: Wed Mar 16 11:45:04 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Partition Readout In-Reply-To: <20050316161339.GB4282@wookimus.net> References: <9F70255D0DAFF404F8B8DADCFF3872AF@bellsoffreedom.animail.net> <20050316161339.GB4282@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20050316174135.GB8850@callisto-acss.acad.umn.edu> On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 10:13:39AM -0600, Chad Walstrom wrote: > On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 10:09:27AM -0600, Nick wrote: > > Here is the printout from my Linux box, which I'm trying to re- > > partition without re-installing. To review, Linux is only using half > > the harddrive. I want to be able to expand linux into the rest of the > > drive without messing anything up. Thanks! > > Nick > > Install GNU parted. Boot into recovery mode or off a Knoppix CD (that > has GNU parted). http://www.gnu.org/software/parted/parted.html > I second the knoppix/parted idea. Before you start, though, be sure to backup important stuff. You'll need to juggle partitions around to do what you want. This is what you're drive looks like now (sort of) delimited by the cylinder numbers: [1..hda1..34].......[504..............hda3...........................1299] [504..hda5(swap)..537][538........hda6(/)........1299] hda5 and hda6 are logical partitions inside hda3 which is an extended partition. hda6 is where your file system is. You don't seem to be using hda1 and the space from cylinder 35 to 503 is unpartitioned. The simplest thing is to just delete hda1 and create a new hda1 from cylinder 1 to 503 and mount that somewhere on your filesystem. If you really want one partition, you could create hda1 as above, copy hda6 into it (assuming it fits), delete hda3, 5, and 6, then resize hda1 up to cylinder 1260 or so and create a new swap partition at the end as hda2. (And don't forget to rewrite /etc/fstab to point to the new / and swap partitions.) -Steve From cschumann at twp-llc.com Wed Mar 16 13:44:19 2005 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Wed Mar 16 13:47:05 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Driver for Linksys Wireless-B adapter In-Reply-To: <200503161758.j2GHwhjA001128@alpha.twp-llc.com> Message-ID: <200503161944.j2GJi9jA001529@alpha.twp-llc.com> > From: George Fischer > I don't believe that the WPC11v4 has any drivers available. > They changed the chipsets from prism to something else. And > I don't think it is a CardBus interface (correct me if I'm > wrong) so ndiswrapper isn't going to work. > On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:32:28 -0600, Arkajyoti Misra > wrote: > > I convinced my colleague to try linux on his Toshiba laptop > which is > > running on Windows only. He connects to the internet only through a > > wireless network. He is using a Linksys Wireless-B notebook adapter > > (Model WPC11 v.4). I could not find any driver for this card. Does > > anybody know whether it is available or where to look for > it? I found > > a ndiswrapper driver for WPC11 but not for v.4. I am planning to > > install FC3 on his laptop. I have a WPC11 v3. It works with Fedora out of the box. I've also had no luck with my WPC54G, but didn't try all that hard. From ge.fischer at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 14:12:37 2005 From: ge.fischer at gmail.com (George Fischer) Date: Wed Mar 16 14:17:06 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Driver for Linksys Wireless-B adapter In-Reply-To: <200503161944.j2GJi9jA001529@alpha.twp-llc.com> References: <200503161758.j2GHwhjA001128@alpha.twp-llc.com> <200503161944.j2GJi9jA001529@alpha.twp-llc.com> Message-ID: Yes, the WPC11v3 has the prism chipset. There is an open source project for those chips (www.prism54.org) and that code is in the kernel now. But no new cards are using that chipset. The WPC11v4 has a realtek chipset that is unsupported. On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 13:44:19 -0600, Chris Schumann wrote: > > From: George Fischer > > > I don't believe that the WPC11v4 has any drivers available. > > They changed the chipsets from prism to something else. And > > I don't think it is a CardBus interface (correct me if I'm > > wrong) so ndiswrapper isn't going to work. > > > On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:32:28 -0600, Arkajyoti Misra > > wrote: > > > I convinced my colleague to try linux on his Toshiba laptop > > which is > > > running on Windows only. He connects to the internet only through a > > > wireless network. He is using a Linksys Wireless-B notebook adapter > > > (Model WPC11 v.4). I could not find any driver for this card. Does > > > anybody know whether it is available or where to look for > > it? I found > > > a ndiswrapper driver for WPC11 but not for v.4. I am planning to > > > install FC3 on his laptop. > > I have a WPC11 v3. It works with Fedora out of the box. I've also had > no luck with my WPC54G, but didn't try all that hard. > > -- George Fischer Minneapolis From ge.fischer at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 14:12:37 2005 From: ge.fischer at gmail.com (George Fischer) Date: Wed Mar 16 14:25:06 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Driver for Linksys Wireless-B adapter In-Reply-To: <200503161944.j2GJi9jA001529@alpha.twp-llc.com> References: <200503161758.j2GHwhjA001128@alpha.twp-llc.com> <200503161944.j2GJi9jA001529@alpha.twp-llc.com> Message-ID: Yes, the WPC11v3 has the prism chipset. There is an open source project for those chips (www.prism54.org) and that code is in the kernel now. But no new cards are using that chipset. The WPC11v4 has a realtek chipset that is unsupported. On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 13:44:19 -0600, Chris Schumann wrote: > > From: George Fischer > > > I don't believe that the WPC11v4 has any drivers available. > > They changed the chipsets from prism to something else. And > > I don't think it is a CardBus interface (correct me if I'm > > wrong) so ndiswrapper isn't going to work. > > > On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:32:28 -0600, Arkajyoti Misra > > wrote: > > > I convinced my colleague to try linux on his Toshiba laptop > > which is > > > running on Windows only. He connects to the internet only through a > > > wireless network. He is using a Linksys Wireless-B notebook adapter > > > (Model WPC11 v.4). I could not find any driver for this card. Does > > > anybody know whether it is available or where to look for > > it? I found > > > a ndiswrapper driver for WPC11 but not for v.4. I am planning to > > > install FC3 on his laptop. > > I have a WPC11 v3. It works with Fedora out of the box. I've also had > no luck with my WPC54G, but didn't try all that hard. > > -- George Fischer Minneapolis From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Mar 16 16:09:48 2005 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Wed Mar 16 16:21:07 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Driver for Linksys Wireless-B adapter In-Reply-To: References: <200503161758.j2GHwhjA001128@alpha.twp-llc.com> <200503161944.j2GJi9jA001529@alpha.twp-llc.com> Message-ID: <20050316220948.GD4282@wookimus.net> On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 02:12:37PM -0600, George Fischer wrote: > The WPC11v4 has a realtek chipset that is unsupported. Google isn't so bad when it comes to researching Linux support for certain cards... (*HINT* http://www.google.com/search?q=WPC11v4+linux) http://www.linuxquestions.org/hcl/showproduct.php?product=768]LQO http://www.linuxvoodoo.com/resources/howtos/linksysv4/ -- Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050316/d29c561a/attachment.pgp From smac at visi.com Thu Mar 17 07:43:33 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Thu Mar 17 07:47:17 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Driver for Linksys Wireless-B adapter In-Reply-To: <4ecba2ff0503160832c832dc9@mail.gmail.com> References: <4ecba2ff0503160832c832dc9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <42398985.6090009@visi.com> Linksys cards are a bit of a problem with Linux, the WPC11v.4 should work but I've not heard of anyone NOT using the NDISWrapper to get it to work. The NDISWrapper uses an emulation to run the XP driver, LOLROF. Linux uses a 4k stack (memory stack) while windozes uses a 16k stack (minimum 12k stack) So you have to install a kernel that runs a 16k stack, (to run these cards you reduce performance of the Linux memory manager). Then install the wrapper and the latest XP driver for the card. I'm using FC3 so... This is where I found the instructions. http://www.amirboroumand.com/tech.php I haven't completed the installation at this time, I don't know if it will work. I have installed a 16k stack kernel on my test laptop. You could use the software on linuxant.com it's $20 I don't know anything about it. Sam. Arkajyoti Misra wrote: >I convinced my colleague to try linux on his Toshiba laptop which is >running on Windows only. He connects to the internet only through a >wireless network. He is using a Linksys Wireless-B notebook adapter >(Model WPC11 v.4). I could not find any driver for this card. Does >anybody know whether it is available or where to look for it? I found >a ndiswrapper driver for WPC11 but not for v.4. I am planning to >install FC3 on his laptop. >Thanks. > >Arko. > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.3 - Release Date: 3/15/2005 From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 08:39:34 2005 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Thu Mar 17 08:45:18 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Real-Time & Embedded Computing Conf. -- Complimentary Invite for Apr 5 In-Reply-To: <3AD17C32E429B04BBED5423FCCEEF0EC6524CE@rtcmail1.rtcgroupinc.local> References: <3AD17C32E429B04BBED5423FCCEEF0EC6524CE@rtcmail1.rtcgroupinc.local> Message-ID: <914f813c050317063956a8e57f@mail.gmail.com> LUGers, I'm not sure why I got this, as I'm not a hardware or software engineer, nor have I done any RT/EC stuff...but I figured some of you are or might be interested, and the message says pass it on. So here you are. -John ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Heather Petty Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:14:07 -0800 Subject: Real-Time & Embedded Computing Conf. -- Complimentary Invite for Apr 5 We are hosting a one-day Real-Time & Embedded Computing Conference on Tuesday, April 5th at the Ramada Inn Mall of America & Thunderbird Convention Center in Minneapolis from 8am-3:45pm. We invite you and your colleagues to be our guests The Real-Time and Embedded event is Complimentary for each guest (sponsored by the RTC Group and participating companies). It is specifically designed for software and hardware engineers, project managers, R&D, Directors of Engineering, designing for military & aerospace, telephony and datacom, industrial control, instrumentation, embedded appliances and more. Special conference presentations will feature PCI Express Technology, along with numerous technical breakout sessions regarding FPGAs, Embedded Linux, and much more. Our sponsors for this event are Logic Product Development and Keil Software. Please see the attached pdf for more detail. The exhibition will run alongside the open-door technical sessions for you to talk face-to-face with the vendors' technical experts. As I mentioned, the event is hosted with free parking, free registration to all exhibits and sessions, and we also serve a buffet lunch at noon. Please extend the invitation to your associates on our behalf; they are more than welcometo attend as well. For a better overall view, I have attached an invitation -- visit http://www.rtecc.com/minneapolis Thank you for your time. I hope to welcome you and your colleagues at the Ramada Inn Mall of America in Minneapolis on April 5th. Heather Petty ~ The RTC Group, USA ~ From bgilbertson at stonel.com Thu Mar 17 10:26:46 2005 From: bgilbertson at stonel.com (Bob Gilbertson) Date: Thu Mar 17 10:31:19 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Real-Time & Embedded Computing Conf. -- Complimentary Invite for Apr 5 In-Reply-To: <914f813c050317063956a8e57f@mail.gmail.com> References: <3AD17C32E429B04BBED5423FCCEEF0EC6524CE@rtcmail1.rtcgroupinc.local> <914f813c050317063956a8e57f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4239AFC6.7070507@stonel.com> I received it also. The attached pdf mentioned several Linux related sessions by LynuxWorks, Wind River and Performance Systems. Looks like most of the info is on the site: http://www.rtecc.com/minneapolis/index.php?p=conferences Free lunch and admission mentioned also. Bob John T. Hoffoss wrote: > LUGers, > > I'm not sure why I got this, as I'm not a hardware or software > engineer, nor have I done any RT/EC stuff...but I figured some of you > are or might be interested, and the message says pass it on. > > So here you are. > -John > > From poptix at poptix.net Thu Mar 17 11:09:10 2005 From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Thu Mar 17 11:13:19 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] A day in history. Message-ID: <20050317170909.GF10682@momentum.poptix.net> date +%s -d 'March 17, 2005 7:58:31pm' 1111111111 -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From poptix at poptix.net Thu Mar 17 11:20:55 2005 From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Thu Mar 17 11:23:55 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] knoppix hd install; hw upgrade; no video In-Reply-To: <20050311212100.GA1787@refried.org> References: <914f813c05031111206d988941@mail.gmail.com> <1469cda20503111130614b2acc@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c05031111407b5c2b90@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205031111526a7052ea@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503111155704c7438@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205031112045218fe86@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c050311121143e06460@mail.gmail.com> <20050311203620.GB27037@iucha.net> <20050311204443.GR10682@momentum.poptix.net> <20050311212100.GA1787@refried.org> Message-ID: <20050317172055.GG10682@momentum.poptix.net> On Fri, Mar 11, 2005 at 03:21:00PM -0600, Nate Straz wrote: > > The difference is that Florin's kernel is managed by the package manager > and yours is not. After a few kernel upgrades Florin can `dpkg -r > kernel-image-$VER` and have a clean system. You'll have to walk around > and remove the kernel, system map, and modules by hand. rm -rf /lib/modules/2.6.x /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.x /boot/System.map-2.6.x /boot/initrd-2.6.x Much safer than trusting debian to mess with it ;) > > What's the point of using a distro with a package manager if you're just > going to dirty the system with unpackaged files? I don't consider it dirty, it's two locations, they aren't mixed with other packages files, and I know nothing depends on them. Does your version automatically update grub.conf? 'make install' does. > Nate -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Thu Mar 17 11:34:35 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Thu Mar 17 11:39:28 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] A day in history. In-Reply-To: <20050317170909.GF10682@momentum.poptix.net> References: <20050317170909.GF10682@momentum.poptix.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Mar 2005, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > date +%s -d 'March 17, 2005 7:58:31pm' > 1111111111 Celebrate at Molly Quinn's? Mike From drue at therub.org Thu Mar 17 11:48:06 2005 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Thu Mar 17 11:51:19 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] rsnapshot and rdiff Message-ID: <20050317174806.GH59780@therub.org> I am preparing to set up rsnapshot at home for backups, and much to my surprise I found one of our own at the bottom of the man page: Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom (chrome@xxx.com) - Created the RPM .spec file which allowed the RPM package to be built, among other things. rsnapshot looks awesome, but I've also heard good things about rdiff. Does anyone have any opinions either way? Also, has anyone got a way to store these rsnap/rdiff backups compressed? Dan From erikerik at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 12:00:36 2005 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Thu Mar 17 12:05:19 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] rsnapshot and rdiff In-Reply-To: <20050317174806.GH59780@therub.org> References: <20050317174806.GH59780@therub.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 11:48:06 -0600, Dan Rue wrote: > > rsnapshot looks awesome, but I've also heard good things about rdiff. > Does anyone have any opinions either way? I've used rsnapshot for several years, and it's awesome. Very easy to set up...the one thing to watch out for is when you're creating the config file, make sure to only use *tabs* to separate values, not spaces. From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Thu Mar 17 12:17:49 2005 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Thu Mar 17 12:21:20 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] mbox sub-folder question Message-ID: <20050317121749.00005ef8@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> Hi, I'm used to running Maildir / qmail and I'm trying to work with an interesting looking application called Zoe (from a TCLUG recommendation noless - http://zoe.nu) which requires importing mail in mbox format. qmail provides a handy maildir2mbox program that's easy enough to use. From my understanding of the mbox format, the name of the file is the name of the IMAP folder right? Inbox.mbox (the inbox - in Maildir this is the root maildir folder TCLUG.mbox (the TCLUG folder - in Maildir this is .TCLUG in the maildir folder) TCPHP.mbox (the TCPHP folder - in Maildir this is .TCLUG in the maildir folder) What I need to do is create a seperate mbox file with maildir2mbox for each of my IMAP folders so I can keep the folder structure to import into Zoe. What I cannot seem to figure out though is the format for creating a mbox that represents a subfolder - for example, TCLUG/Slackware - in Maildir this is .TCLUG.Slackware - in mbox it's ??? TCLUG.Slackware.mbox or something else? Thanks for any help. Josh From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 12:49:14 2005 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Thu Mar 17 12:53:20 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] knoppix hd install; hw upgrade; no video In-Reply-To: <20050317172055.GG10682@momentum.poptix.net> References: <914f813c05031111206d988941@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c05031111407b5c2b90@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205031111526a7052ea@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c0503111155704c7438@mail.gmail.com> <4a0cafe205031112045218fe86@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c050311121143e06460@mail.gmail.com> <20050311203620.GB27037@iucha.net> <20050311204443.GR10682@momentum.poptix.net> <20050311212100.GA1787@refried.org> <20050317172055.GG10682@momentum.poptix.net> Message-ID: <914f813c050317104932b16ba8@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 11:20:55 -0600, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > > rm -rf /lib/modules/2.6.x /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.x /boot/System.map-2.6.x /boot/initrd-2.6.x > > Much safer than trusting debian to mess with it ;) > > Does your version automatically update grub.conf? 'make install' does. IIRC, it does. (LILO or grub, actually). I decided to whack the system and move back to Gentoo. I was running out of time to mess with the system, as I was held from doing any work then. The system is fast enough that it took only a few hours to compile on Saturday while I was at the Gopher hockey game, and it's up and running smoothly in an environment that I already know how to manage. Knoppix-STD was a quick-fix that I used because I knew my old hardware was slow enough that I had zero time to spend before getting any actual work done. It was only later that I learned I would, after all, be getting some new hardware. Had I known from the start, I would've cross-compiled gentoo from the get-go and have had no downtime when I got everything for the new system. Lesson learned, I guess. From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Thu Mar 17 13:03:44 2005 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Thu Mar 17 13:07:20 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] mbox sub-folder question In-Reply-To: <4239D247.3000103@earthlink.net> References: <20050317121749.00005ef8@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <4239D247.3000103@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20050317130344.000055a6@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> David - replying the TCLUG list for archiving... On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 12:53:59 -0600 David Alitz wrote: > It's been awhile since I switched from mbox to Maildir, but I > remember people commenting on how nice it was to put email and sub > folders in the same folder. mbox mailboxes can't have sub folders > -- that's one of the advantages of Maildir. A directory represents > a sub folder. Your Slackware mbox would be in TCLUG/Slackware.mbox > ; but you can't have mail in TCLUG because it's a directory, not a > mbox. From the client side you can have folders with mail in them > or folders with sub folders, but not both mail and sub folders in > the same folder. Your IMAP client should have a place to specify > whether your server allows mail and sub folders to coexist in the > same folder. Thanks for the info - I only have a few sub-folders so I think I'll just create a new top-level folder using an underscore or something as a seperator: TCLUG_Slackware.mbox Josh From sraun at fireopal.org Fri Mar 18 14:03:25 2005 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Fri Mar 18 14:07:36 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] ISO Software Recommendation Message-ID: <20050318200325.GA11857@fireopal.org> I'm looking for a web-based bookmark manager to install on my home system. A 'point my browser from wherever I am to a page on my domain, and see / add / delete bookmarks remotely' package. I'd like categories. I'd prefer it to be written in Perl or Python - not PHP (I've already got Perl & Python installed, but no other reason to use PHP at this time.) Any recommendations? -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From cncole at earthlink.net Fri Mar 18 14:59:42 2005 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Fri Mar 18 15:03:37 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Real-Time & Embedded Computing Conf. -- ComplimentaryInvite for Apr 5 Message-ID: I went to a previous session and am registered to attend this one. Lunch is free also and you can pick and choose which sessions to attend. There's some linux content, but not as much as I'd like... probably less than 25%. This is promarily a conference for vendors to promote stuff for sale. Microsoft is a sponsor, but I don't recall them being too intrusive and I didn't barf at the few things I attended. I think TCLUG should have an info table there with web ID for sign-up. Might be really cool to offer a laptop dual boot installfest as a "session" and have a few folks hanging around an info table for BS.. maybe some gathering tables at lunch also. Chuck > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of John T. Hoffoss > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 8:40 AM > To: TCLUG > Subject: [tclug-list] Real-Time & Embedded Computing Conf. -- > ComplimentaryInvite for Apr 5 > > > LUGers, > > I'm not sure why I got this, as I'm not a hardware or software > engineer, nor have I done any RT/EC stuff...but I figured some of you > are or might be interested, and the message says pass it on. > > So here you are. > -John > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Heather Petty > Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:14:07 -0800 > Subject: Real-Time & Embedded Computing Conf. -- Complimentary Invite for Apr 5 > > We are hosting a one-day Real-Time & Embedded Computing Conference on > > Tuesday, April 5th at the Ramada Inn Mall of America & Thunderbird > Convention Center in Minneapolis from 8am-3:45pm. > > We invite you and your colleagues to be our guests > > The Real-Time and Embedded event is Complimentary for each guest (sponsored > > by the RTC Group and participating companies). It is specifically designed > > for software and hardware engineers, project managers, R&D, Directors > of Engineering, > > designing for military & aerospace, telephony and datacom, industrial > control, instrumentation, embedded appliances and more. > > Special conference presentations will feature PCI Express Technology, > along with numerous technical breakout sessions regarding FPGAs, > Embedded Linux, and much more. Our sponsors for this event are Logic > Product Development and Keil Software. Please see the attached pdf > for more detail. > > The exhibition will run alongside the open-door technical sessions for > you to talk face-to-face with the vendors' technical experts. As I > mentioned, the event is hosted with free parking, free registration to > all exhibits and sessions, and we also serve a buffet lunch at noon. > > Please extend the invitation to your associates on our behalf; they > are more than welcometo attend as well. > > For a better overall view, I have attached an invitation -- visit > http://www.rtecc.com/minneapolis > > Thank you for your time. I hope to welcome you and your colleagues at > the Ramada Inn Mall of America in Minneapolis on April 5th. > > > Heather Petty ~ The RTC Group, USA ~ > From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 15:21:55 2005 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Fri Mar 18 15:25:37 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Reiser Parititon Expansion Q Message-ID: <914f813c050318132154719878@mail.gmail.com> I have a 300GB drive that was in a non-LBA system, so it has a 135GB partition on it. I now have an LBA-capable system, so now I want to use the rest of the drive. I've never expanded a Reiser partition, so I don't know the answer to this: can I expand the current partition to fill the disk without damaging data already present? Or should/must I create a new 165 GB partition on the latter portion of the disk? Thanks. From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Fri Mar 18 15:23:04 2005 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Fri Mar 18 15:27:36 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] ISO Software Recommendation In-Reply-To: <20050318200325.GA11857@fireopal.org> References: <20050318200325.GA11857@fireopal.org> Message-ID: <20050318152304.00002675@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 14:03:25 -0600 Scott Raun wrote: > I'm looking for a web-based bookmark manager to install on my home > system. A 'point my browser from wherever I am to a page on my > domain, and see / add / delete bookmarks remotely' package. > > I'd like categories. I'd prefer it to be written in Perl or Python > - not PHP (I've already got Perl & Python installed, but no other > reason to use PHP at this time.) > > Any recommendations? If you don't mind Java, I have built a custom one that does exactly that with basic searching but the technology is Java / PostgreSQL / Tomcat. Josh From strayf at freeshell.org Fri Mar 18 18:30:17 2005 From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steven Cayford) Date: Fri Mar 18 18:31:40 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Reiser Parititon Expansion Q In-Reply-To: <914f813c050318132154719878@mail.gmail.com> References: <914f813c050318132154719878@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050319003017.GA8818@crito> On Fri, Mar 18, 2005 at 03:21:55PM -0600, John T. Hoffoss wrote: > I have a 300GB drive that was in a non-LBA system, so it has a 135GB > partition on it. I now have an LBA-capable system, so now I want to > use the rest of the drive. I've never expanded a Reiser partition, so > I don't know the answer to this: can I expand the current partition to > fill the disk without damaging data already present? Or should/must I > create a new 165 GB partition on the latter portion of the disk? Parted _says_ it can do this (www.gnu.org/software/parted). Parted is included on Knoppix among others. -Steve From andyzib at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 18:40:56 2005 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Fri Mar 18 18:45:39 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Reiser Parititon Expansion Q In-Reply-To: <20050319003017.GA8818@crito> References: <914f813c050318132154719878@mail.gmail.com> <20050319003017.GA8818@crito> Message-ID: If at all possible, backup your data first. Then even if parted doesn't work, and destroys all the data, you can expand the partition the using the method that will always work... Backup data, destory the old partition table, create a new partition, format the volume, and restore all your data. :) On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 18:30:17 -0600, Steven Cayford wrote: > Parted _says_ it can do this (www.gnu.org/software/parted). Parted is included > on Knoppix among others. > > -Steve > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 08:30:39 2005 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Sat Mar 19 08:33:48 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Reiser Parititon Expansion Q In-Reply-To: References: <914f813c050318132154719878@mail.gmail.com> <20050319003017.GA8818@crito> Message-ID: <914f813c05031906301b5f7f29@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 16:40:56 -0800, Andrew Zbikowski wrote: > On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 18:30:17 -0600, Steven Cayford wrote: > > > Parted _says_ it can do this (www.gnu.org/software/parted). Parted is included > > on Knoppix among others. > > > > -Steve > > If at all possible, backup your data first. > Then even if parted doesn't work, and destroys all the data, you can > expand the partition the using the method that will always work... > Backup data, destory the old partition table, create a new partition, > format the volume, and restore all your data. :) True, except I don't have space to backup! I can't lose this data, so a second partition it is. Thanks to Joseph for the article, anyhow. Good read. -John From glim at mycybernet.net Sat Mar 19 18:02:00 2005 From: glim at mycybernet.net (glim@mycybernet.net) Date: Sat Mar 19 18:33:54 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] [OT]Yet Another Perl Conference, North America, 2005 Registration now open Message-ID: Hello... Here is something for people interested in the Perl programming language. Conference registration for Yet Another Perl Conference North America 2005 has just opened. YAPC is the grass-roots, all-volunteer annual Perl conference. Because it is volunteer-driven it is very affordable. Because the volunteers are passionate about Perl its quality is very high. If this has sparked your interest please take a look at the details here and more details on the conference web site. Have any questions? You can contact the conference organizers by email at: na-help@yapc.org Thanks for reading! ----------> Yet Another Perl Conference, North America, 2005 Registration now open. Conference dates: Monday - Wednesday 27 - 29 June 2005 Location: 89 Chestnut Street http://89chestnut.com/ University of Toronto Toronto, Ontario, Canada Info at: http://yapc.org/America http://yapc.org/America/register-2005.shtml Direct registration: http://donate.perlfoundation.org/index.pl?node=registrant%20info&conference_id=423 Full registration fee $85 (USD) Book now for great deals on accommodations and ensure a space for yourself. Speaking slots are still open. If you would like to present at YAPC::NA 2005, see: http://yapc.org/America/cfp-2005.shtml Details of this announcement: http://yapc.org/America/registration-announcement-2005.txt <---------- From postfix-user at nvpf.us Tue Mar 15 22:09:38 2005 From: postfix-user at nvpf.us (greg wm) Date: Mon Mar 21 09:33:17 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Two ethernet jacks on one cable In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.0.20050315190609.028e0b00@pop.charter.net> References: <3rr9ri$p2jrb1@mxip18a.cluster1.charter.net> <6.2.0.14.0.20050315190609.028e0b00@pop.charter.net> Message-ID: <4237B182.6040903@nvpf.us> Carl Zeilon wrote: > At 03:59 PM 3/15/2005, you wrote: >> On Tuesday 15 March 2005 09:07 am, Steve Swantz wrote: >> > Would using one twisted pair for a phone line and two others of the >> > same cable for ethernet result in network noise when the phone rings, >> > or is the wire twist sufficient to reduce interference? >> >> They'll be lots of problems. Personally I wired up a 10Base-T network over >> phone-like cat-3 a _years_ ago, but it only barely worked (only worked on >> some cards, with packet loss). There wasn't a phone line there to interfere, >> but I can only imagine if there was. I ended up using wireless later when I >> needed network there again. > > I must disagree. All the houses in our neighborhood (7-10 years old) > are in fact wired this way. They use no phone wire at all, only cat 5e > run through every room. I know of many people running 2 phone lines & > ethernet with no problems. In my own, I run 1 phone line with 5 phones > & a 4 computer network with absolutely no trouble. it's severly frowned upon in the industry, with good reason, if you end up being the guy trying to sort out the flaky problems that arise then you understand. still as many have noted, it's often done with no problems. whether you run into problems is due to numerous factors that increase the noise to signal ratio. the most significant of these is how much wire is untwisted at the jacks. be careful to leave as much twisted as possible. i've fixed quite a few flaky connections by retwisting and repunching. other oft observed sources of trouble are bad jacks, flaky hubs, below spec wire (eg cat 3), running your cable alongside power cable, or having a radio transmitter in the neighborhood. greg From gwhitleymott at NonviolentPeaceforce.org Thu Mar 17 22:30:16 2005 From: gwhitleymott at NonviolentPeaceforce.org (greg whitley mott) Date: Mon Mar 21 09:33:25 2005 Subject: Fwd: Re: [tclug-list] Portability of private server-side SSH keys? In-Reply-To: <200503092207.42591@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com> References: <200503092207.42591@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com> Message-ID: <423A5958.5010501@NonviolentPeaceforce.org> Bob Tanner wrote: >On Wednesday 09 March 2005 12:28 pm, Shawn Fertch wrote: >>On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 20:38:44 -0600, John Reese wrote: >>>My company will replace a server running RH 7.2 with a box running RH 9. >> >>Out of curiosity, why continue to use SSH1? It has a well-known exploit. > > ssh1, why upgrade from an unsupported, deprecated release of redhat to > -another- unsupported and deprecated release of redhat? skip rh9. fewer problems than rh8, but still more problems than 7.3. i'm using whitebox on several servers. it's stable, and supported: http://whiteboxlinux.org greg From seg at haxxed.com Mon Mar 21 10:22:43 2005 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Mar 21 10:26:20 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Two ethernet jacks on one cable In-Reply-To: <4237B182.6040903@nvpf.us> References: <3rr9ri$p2jrb1@mxip18a.cluster1.charter.net> <6.2.0.14.0.20050315190609.028e0b00@pop.charter.net> <4237B182.6040903@nvpf.us> Message-ID: <1111422163.17723.53.camel@bigtime.booze> > >> They'll be lots of problems. Personally I wired up a 10Base-T network over > >> phone-like cat-3 a _years_ ago, but it only barely worked (only worked on > >> some cards, with packet loss). There wasn't a phone line there to interfere, Errr, isn't cat-3 what 10Base-T is supposed to run on? Sure the cards weren't trying to do 100mbit over it? Or maybe the distance was just too long? > repunching. other oft observed sources of trouble are bad jacks, flaky > hubs, below spec wire (eg cat 3), running your cable alongside power > cable, or having a radio transmitter in the neighborhood. I thought CAT-3 was in spec for 10mbit? You probably have to force all your cards to 10 as the auto-negotiation probably sucks, if it does it at all... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050321/243ce9cd/attachment.pgp From webmaster at mn-linux.org Mon Mar 21 11:28:09 2005 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Mar 21 11:32:20 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200503211728.j2LHS9p01997@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Free Subject: 2x Pentium (pro?) boxen Two pentium (MMX? Pro?) boxes, free to a good home. Each includes small IDE drive, CD drive. No guarantees. Seller Email address: trammell+tclug at el-swifto dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From andyzib at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 11:36:29 2005 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Mar 21 11:40:21 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Two ethernet jacks on one cable In-Reply-To: <1111422163.17723.53.camel@bigtime.booze> References: <3rr9ri$p2jrb1@mxip18a.cluster1.charter.net> <6.2.0.14.0.20050315190609.028e0b00@pop.charter.net> <4237B182.6040903@nvpf.us> <1111422163.17723.53.camel@bigtime.booze> Message-ID: Go ahead and do it if you want. You've been warned of the pit falls. If you have network problems, don't bother calling anybody until you do your wiring properly. Anyone you call for support who sees (or hears about) your wiring job is going to tell you to do your wiring properly. If you still have issues when you have proper wiring, then you'll be able to get support... -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. From dave at math.umn.edu Mon Mar 21 12:04:16 2005 From: dave at math.umn.edu (Dave Carlson) Date: Mon Mar 21 12:09:31 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Two ethernet jacks on one cable In-Reply-To: <1111422163.17723.53.camel@bigtime.booze> References: <3rr9ri$p2jrb1@mxip18a.cluster1.charter.net> <4237B182.6040903@nvpf.us> <1111422163.17723.53.camel@bigtime.booze> Message-ID: <200503211204.18915.dave@math.umn.edu> On Monday 21 March 2005 10:22, Callum Lerwick wrote: > > >> They'll be lots of problems. Personally I wired up a 10Base-T network over > > >> phone-like cat-3 a _years_ ago, but it only barely worked (only worked on > > >> some cards, with packet loss). There wasn't a phone line there to interfere, > > Errr, isn't cat-3 what 10Base-T is supposed to run on? Sure the cards > weren't trying to do 100mbit over it? Or maybe the distance was just too > long? I'm pretty sure that's why it _did_ work with old cards. It has one big splice (where a phone terminal was supposed to be) and maybe a foot of non-twist, but the jackwork is good. It barely passed when a tester was put on it. Had there not been a 90-degree turn in the system (put in in 1974), I would have pulled cat5e through it. I went with wireless, which was much better. At work we have some split jacks - but we're trying to phase those out as quickly as possible. -- -dave Dave Carlson Systems Administrator School of Mathematics, University of Minnesota http://www.math.umn.edu PGP/GPG Fingerprint: C3D0 9962 1E98 B742 132D 0E1A CE11 7C4B 5309 97A7 (visit http://www.gnupg.org for more information) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050321/5819db0c/attachment.pgp From aintboeingaintgoing at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 12:13:47 2005 From: aintboeingaintgoing at gmail.com (Steve Swantz) Date: Mon Mar 21 12:17:30 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Raid1 going south Message-ID: <17f6da2505032110137db92c74@mail.gmail.com> Hi guys I've got 1 drive on a raid1 going south and am looking for a sanity check before I start working on it. I haven't done this enough to be confident with it and this box is in use, so I really want to get it right the first time without a lot of downtime. Long post, specific questions at end. It's generic PC, Debian testing, RAID1 for both / and swap. I've got two identical Maxtor 40G's in it on hda and hdc. Both drives are physically about two years old, one was unused until this installation about three weeks ago and the other had little use. Here's a slice of menu.lst ## ## End Default Options ## title Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.8-1-386 root (hd0,0) kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.8-1-386 root=/dev/md0 ro initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.8-1-386 savedefault boot Here's /proc/mdstat mercury:~# cat /proc/mdstat Personalities : [raid1] md1 : active raid1 hda2[0] hdc2[1] 1952384 blocks [2/2] [UU] md0 : active raid1 hda1[2](F) hdc1[1] 37109376 blocks [2/1] [_U] unused devices: As you can see, / is on hda1 (borked) and hdc1 , swap is on hda2 and hdc2 I hadn't gotten around to putting grub on the MBR of hdc, so I finally got around to it: grub>device (hd0) /dev/hdc grub>root (hd0,0) grub>setup (hd0) Output looked normal, but after quitting and restarting grub. I get: grub> find /boot/grub/stage1 (hd0,0) grub> so I'm not really sure if I have grub on hdc's MBR or not. I've been referring to: http://lists.us.dell.com/pipermail/linux-poweredge/2003-July/014331.html and it makes me think I should be also be seeing (hd1,0) in the output. The article above also mentions using sfdisk to back and restore partition tables along the line of: #sfdisk -d /dev/hda > /raidinfo/partitions.hda and: #sfdisk /dev/hda < /raidinfo/partitions.hda on the new drive When I try that I get a device busy message, but the mdadm man pages says: "-r, --remove remove listed devices. They must not be active. i.e. they should be failed or spare devices." so I'm not sure if it's possible/advisable to make it unbusy. Here are the questions: 1) Do I have grub on the MBR of hdc? I have a grub boot floppy so I can probably recover if I'm wrong. 2) Is there a way to use sfdisk as indicated above while the system is live? If not I can always I can partition manually. 3) /hda is not dead - is there any other thing I should try before complete replacement? 4) Smartmon has been throwing warnings on _both_ drives... the case is large, cool to the touch, plenty of airspace around each drive... anyone care to comment on bad luck vs other possible causes? Thanks in advance, Steve From tclug at neigebauer.com Mon Mar 21 12:56:46 2005 From: tclug at neigebauer.com (Ben) Date: Mon Mar 21 13:00:22 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Load Balancing Cluster + Global File System Message-ID: <423F18EE.8050409@neigebauer.com> I'd like to setup a load balancing cluster to handle compilation jobs (I don't want to use ditcc) What kind of perfomance can I expect from a Global File System? Can a redhat enterprise/cent os cluster handle job scheduling the the least available machine? From natecars at real-time.com Mon Mar 21 12:58:37 2005 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Mar 21 13:05:31 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Reiser Parititon Expansion Q In-Reply-To: <914f813c050318132154719878@mail.gmail.com> References: <914f813c050318132154719878@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Mar 2005, John T. Hoffoss wrote: > I have a 300GB drive that was in a non-LBA system, so it has a 135GB > partition on it. I now have an LBA-capable system, so now I want to use > the rest of the drive. I've never expanded a Reiser partition, so I > don't know the answer to this: can I expand the current partition to > fill the disk without damaging data already present? Or should/must I > create a new 165 GB partition on the latter portion of the disk? As a total side note, XFS on top of LVM does this perfectly. I'm quite enjoying it on my MythTV box to expand volumes as needed. Don't even have to unmount the partition! :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From natecars at real-time.com Mon Mar 21 13:19:17 2005 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Mar 21 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Load Balancing Cluster + Global File System In-Reply-To: <423F18EE.8050409@neigebauer.com> References: <423F18EE.8050409@neigebauer.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Ben wrote: > I'd like to setup a load balancing cluster to handle compilation jobs (I > don't want to use ditcc) > > What kind of perfomance can I expect from a Global File System? > > Can a redhat enterprise/cent os cluster handle job scheduling the the > least available machine? Do you have central storage (FC, Shared SCSI, etc) that you are planning on sharing with GFS? From what I've read, GFS doesn't have any way of replicating data between boxes, so if you don't have shared storage, it's not useful. [I'd love to hear if this is incorrect!] If you don't have shared storage, NFS may be the simplest route. Just curious, why not use DistCC? -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From sfertch at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 13:28:16 2005 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Mar 21 13:32:22 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Fiber connection to SAN - Looking for good online information Message-ID: <67f3084a050321112822ec53ed@mail.gmail.com> I'm supposed to be building a system in the very near future with fiber connections to a SAN. I have not done any of this, and am starting to look into how to do so now. Does anyone have any good online resources in regards to How-To's, or so forth. I'm guessing it's no different than other systems, but some documentation of what to do, or what to look for would be good to review prior to actually doing so. Thanks. -- -Shawn -Nemo me impune lacessit. Ne Obliviscaris.. From tclug at neigebauer.com Mon Mar 21 13:29:59 2005 From: tclug at neigebauer.com (Ben) Date: Mon Mar 21 13:37:50 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Load Balancing Cluster + Global File System In-Reply-To: References: <423F18EE.8050409@neigebauer.com> Message-ID: <423F20B7.8010602@neigebauer.com> Nate Carlson wrote: >On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Ben wrote: > > >>I'd like to setup a load balancing cluster to handle compilation jobs (I >>don't want to use ditcc) >> >>What kind of perfomance can I expect from a Global File System? >> >>Can a redhat enterprise/cent os cluster handle job scheduling the the >>least available machine? >> >> > >Do you have central storage (FC, Shared SCSI, etc) that you are planning >on sharing with GFS? From what I've read, GFS doesn't have any way of >replicating data between boxes, so if you don't have shared storage, it's >not useful. [I'd love to hear if this is incorrect!] > >If you don't have shared storage, NFS may be the simplest route. > >Just curious, why not use DistCC? > > > I am planning on using Fibre Channel. Have they ever fixed the issue with the source path for GDB debugging in DistCC? From natecars at real-time.com Mon Mar 21 14:20:01 2005 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Mar 21 14:24:22 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Load Balancing Cluster + Global File System In-Reply-To: <423F20B7.8010602@neigebauer.com> References: <423F18EE.8050409@neigebauer.com> <423F20B7.8010602@neigebauer.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Ben wrote: > I am planning on using Fibre Channel. Nifty - in that case, you should be fine. > Have they ever fixed the issue with the source path for GDB debugging in > DistCC? This bug? http://distcc.samba.org/faq.html#gdb -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From aintboeingaintgoing at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 15:05:24 2005 From: aintboeingaintgoing at gmail.com (Steve Swantz) Date: Mon Mar 21 15:10:00 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] RAID1 Going South Message-ID: <17f6da2505032113053220b8ad@mail.gmail.com> Hi guys I've got 1 drive on a raid1 going south and am looking for a sanity check before I start working on it. I haven't done this enough to be confident with it and this box is in use, so I really want to get it right the first time without a lot of downtime. Long post, specific questions at end. It's generic PC, Debian testing, RAID1 for both / and swap. I've got two identical Maxtor 40G's in it on hda and hdc. Both drives are physically about two years old, one was unused until this installation about three weeks ago and the other had little use. Here's a slice of menu.lst ## ## End Default Options ## title Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.8-1-386 root (hd0,0) kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.8-1-386 root=/dev/md0 ro initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.8-1-386 savedefault boot Here's /proc/mdstat mercury:~# cat /proc/mdstat Personalities : [raid1] md1 : active raid1 hda2[0] hdc2[1] 1952384 blocks [2/2] [UU] md0 : active raid1 hda1[2](F) hdc1[1] 37109376 blocks [2/1] [_U] unused devices: As you can see, / is on hda1 (borked) and hdc1 , swap is on hda2 and hdc2 I hadn't gotten around to putting grub on the MBR of hdc, so I finally got around to it: grub>device (hd0) /dev/hdc grub>root (hd0,0) grub>setup (hd0) Output looked normal, but after quitting and restarting grub. I get: grub> find /boot/grub/stage1 (hd0,0) grub> so I'm not really sure if I have grub on hdc's MBR or not. I've been referring to: http://lists.us.dell.com/pipermail/linux-poweredge/2003-July/014331.html and it makes me think I should be also be seeing (hd1,0) in the output. The article above also mentions using sfdisk to back and restore partition tables along the line of: #sfdisk -d /dev/hda > /raidinfo/partitions.hda and: #sfdisk /dev/hda < /raidinfo/partitions.hda on the new drive When I try that I get a device busy message, but the mdadm man pages says: "-r, --remove remove listed devices. They must not be active. i.e. they should be failed or spare devices." so I'm not sure if it's possible/advisable to make it unbusy. Here are the questions: 1) Do I have grub on the MBR of hdc? I have a grub boot floppy so I can probably recover if I'm wrong. 2) Is there a way to use sfdisk as indicated above while the system is live? If not I can always I can partition manually. 3) /hda is not dead - is there any other thing I should try before complete replacement? 4) Smartmon has been throwing warnings on _both_ drives... the case is large, cool to the touch, plenty of airspace around each drive... anyone care to comment on bad luck vs other possible causes? Thanks in advance, Steve From tclug at neigebauer.com Mon Mar 21 15:35:48 2005 From: tclug at neigebauer.com (Ben) Date: Mon Mar 21 15:43:32 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Load Balancing Cluster + Global File System In-Reply-To: References: <423F18EE.8050409@neigebauer.com> <423F20B7.8010602@neigebauer.com> Message-ID: <423F3E34.9070104@neigebauer.com> Nate Carlson wrote: >On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Ben wrote: > > >>I am planning on using Fibre Channel. >> >> > >Nifty - in that case, you should be fine. > > > >>Have they ever fixed the issue with the source path for GDB debugging in >>DistCC? >> >> > >This bug? > >http://distcc.samba.org/faq.html#gdb > > > Yup, that bug, I'd rather not work with patches/issues with that. I have a couple of nice machines that I can dedicate to the task. Also, the link stage requires a significant amount of memory, so distcc isn't always an ideal choice. From andyzib at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 16:55:34 2005 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Mar 21 17:00:24 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] RAID1 Going South In-Reply-To: <17f6da2505032113053220b8ad@mail.gmail.com> References: <17f6da2505032113053220b8ad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Your first message was sent to the list, no need to send it twice unless you like annoying people. 2) Set the drive you want to run sfdisk on as a failed drive in your raidtab file. Consult the Software RAID howto. 3) I'd surf over to Maxtor.com and grab their drive diagnostic software to verify the status of your dirves. 4) Drive failure happens, that's why you're running a RAID configuration right? Do you have a surge supressor or even better a power conditioning UPS on there? -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. From jimstreit at northlans.com Tue Mar 22 12:38:58 2005 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (jimstreit@northlans.com) Date: Tue Mar 22 12:46:23 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Clusters and stuff Message-ID: <1111516738.42406642691a0@webmail.northlans.com> I want to start to learn more about Linux clusters and high availablity servers. Anyone have any words of wisdom on were to start or what to avoid? Right now I?m just going off what I find on Google, but some personal real life experiances shure would help. Thanks Jim Streit ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From tanner at real-time.com Tue Mar 22 12:47:09 2005 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Tue Mar 22 12:52:23 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: noise, testing MTA upgrade Message-ID: <200503221247.09898@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com> Upgraded the MTA hot. Testing :-) -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 From smac at visi.com Tue Mar 22 14:27:48 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Tue Mar 22 14:28:28 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Clusters and stuff In-Reply-To: <1111516738.42406642691a0@webmail.northlans.com> References: <1111516738.42406642691a0@webmail.northlans.com> Message-ID: <42407FC4.4060201@visi.com> Hardware RAID. Sam. jimstreit@northlans.com wrote: >I want to start to learn more about Linux clusters and high availablity servers. > Anyone have any words of wisdom on were to start or what to avoid? > >Right now I?m just going off what I find on Google, but some personal real life >experiances shure would help. > >Thanks >Jim Streit > > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------- >This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.0 - Release Date: 3/21/2005 From drue at therub.org Tue Mar 22 14:42:27 2005 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Tue Mar 22 14:44:24 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Clusters and stuff In-Reply-To: <1111516738.42406642691a0@webmail.northlans.com> References: <1111516738.42406642691a0@webmail.northlans.com> Message-ID: <20050322204227.GR59780@therub.org> On Tue, Mar 22, 2005 at 12:38:58PM -0600, jimstreit@northlans.com wrote: > I want to start to learn more about Linux clusters and high > availablity servers. Anyone have any words of wisdom on were to start > or what to avoid? > > Right now I?m just going off what I find on Google, but some personal > real life experiances shure would help. You really have to give us a better idea of what you want to achieve to get any worthwhile advise. Dan On two occasions I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. --Charles Babbage From drue at therub.org Wed Mar 23 10:38:51 2005 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Wed Mar 23 10:40:36 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Clusters and stuff Message-ID: <20050323163851.GT59780@therub.org> (oops, forgot to CC the list) On Tue, Mar 22, 2005 at 10:37:02PM -0600, jimstreit@northlans.com wrote: > I want to take a few boxes, and run a couple common applications, like > apache and mysql, so they load ballance across the boxes. If I need > more process power, I add more boxes. All of the boxes would need to > be able to access some type of common storage file system, fiber > channel or iscsi. > > If a box drops, the others just keep going. Ok, I thought that might be what you want. I think of a cluster as more of a bunch of computers doing cpu workhorse problems. I havn't had to do too much in terms of load balancing yet, but I have read up on it plenty. You're going to end up running master and slave database boxes on the back end using replication. Squid on the front end doing caching and load balancing. Alternatively/in addition you can use round robin dns to distribute load across web servers. You might find this inspiring: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_servers Specifically, take a careful look at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Wikimedia-servers-2005-01-30.png As far as common storage file system, that may or may not be necessary. Your optimal solution will heavily depend on the type of web application you run. If your site has a lot of read only traffic, it simplifies things because that's very easy to scale out, for example. I'd also like to hear others' take on this topic, dan From josh at joshwelch.com Wed Mar 23 13:15:13 2005 From: josh at joshwelch.com (josh@joshwelch.com) Date: Wed Mar 23 13:16:37 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Gig NIC Message-ID: <1111605313.4241c041ab7c2@joshwelch.com> Looking to implement an "IP SAN", which I guess is the buzz phrase for an iSCSI storage network. I'll be picking up a handful of Gigabit NICs to augment those servers which are currently lacking one, I've got it narrowed down to the Intel 1000-XT or the 3Com 3C996B-T. I've got a number of machines using Intel NICs, I know that they work well and have good Linux support. The 3Com cards, however, claim to do some additional TCP Checksum offloading, which could be helpful on a couple of CPU challenged boxes (I don't want to spend the $500/per for a full blown TOE card if I can avoid it). Also, looks like the 3Com cards are supported fine. Anyway, if folks have opinions, or better yet facts, about these cards I'd appreciate it. Thanks, Josh From kdesigns at hutchtel.net Wed Mar 23 13:44:24 2005 From: kdesigns at hutchtel.net (Dwayne Kaelberer) Date: Wed Mar 23 13:42:37 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for Linux Friends Message-ID: <000801c52fe0$b822df00$727dfea9@home1> Hi All Somwhat new to Linux . I'm looking for any Linux users near or within shouting distance or Norwood Young America area . Ive tried Fedora and also have gotten Gentoo up and running. I'm working with Mandrake 10.1 right now. Just like to find a couple Linux users near me if possible. Dwayne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050323/cce9f4d9/attachment.htm From smac at visi.com Wed Mar 23 14:29:39 2005 From: smac at visi.com (smac@visi.com) Date: Wed Mar 23 14:30:38 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for Linux Friends In-Reply-To: <000801c52fe0$b822df00$727dfea9@home1> References: <000801c52fe0$b822df00$727dfea9@home1> Message-ID: <1111609779.4241d1b35879e@my.visi.com> I think I lost my position as the lugger farthest west! I live in Excelsior and have been on the list for about 2 years. Sam Quoting Dwayne Kaelberer : > Hi All > > Somwhat new to Linux . I'm looking for any Linux users near or within > shouting distance or Norwood Young America area . Ive tried Fedora and also > have gotten Gentoo up and running. I'm working with Mandrake 10.1 right now. > Just like to find a couple Linux users near me if possible. > > Dwayne From admin at lctn.org Wed Mar 23 15:54:30 2005 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Wed Mar 23 15:56:38 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] perl dominating cpu and memory Message-ID: <1143.64.8.148.29.1111614870.squirrel@64.8.148.29> I am running a fedora core 1 box with perl 5.8.3. the server is shutting down services because of being out of memory, etc.. When I run Top it shows perl is dominating 98% cpu time and 70 % of the memory. This occurs even when httpd is shutdown. Any ideas how to find out what is causing this? Raymond From SDALAN04 at smumn.edu Wed Mar 23 16:00:02 2005 From: SDALAN04 at smumn.edu (David Alanis) Date: Wed Mar 23 16:00:38 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for Linux Friends Message-ID: <20050323220002712363ff07@mail.smumn.edu> Yep, you can certainly look for a mate based on their distro! By the way, would you like to join my tea partty? I will be serving Camonile v6.5, anyone? On Wednesday, March 23, 2005 2:29 PM, smac@visi.com wrote: > >Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:29:39 -0600 >From: smac@visi.com >To: Dwayne Kaelberer >Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Looking for Linux Friends > >I think I lost my position as the lugger farthest west! > >I live in Excelsior and have been on the list for about 2 years. > >Sam > > >Quoting Dwayne Kaelberer : > >> Hi All >> >> Somwhat new to Linux . I'm looking for any Linux users near or within >> shouting distance or Norwood Young America area . Ive tried Fedora and also >> have gotten Gentoo up and running. I'm working with Mandrake 10.1 right now. >> Just like to find a couple Linux users near me if possible. >> >> Dwayne > > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list Why does the Air Force need expensive new bombers? Have the people we've been bombing over the years been complaining? George Wallace "Cuanta estupidez en tan poco cerebro!" From webmaster at mn-linux.org Wed Mar 23 16:11:04 2005 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Wed Mar 23 16:12:39 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200503232211.j2NMB4x29636@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: 3U Rack mount cases w/ 300WPS I have 3 total 3U rack-mount chassis each with a functional 300W PS. These boxes were used about 18 months, then taken offline. I'm asking $170 each for them, or buy the 3 of them for $500. email me (sales@bbwh.com) if you're interested and we can make arrangements. yes, I can take V or MC, and delivery is extra. Seller Email address: marty at borderbound dot net http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From esper at sherohman.org Wed Mar 23 16:34:48 2005 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Wed Mar 23 16:36:41 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] perl dominating cpu and memory In-Reply-To: <1143.64.8.148.29.1111614870.squirrel@64.8.148.29> References: <1143.64.8.148.29.1111614870.squirrel@64.8.148.29> Message-ID: <20050323223448.GA14982@sherohman.org> On Wed, Mar 23, 2005 at 03:54:30PM -0600, Raymond Norton wrote: > I am running a fedora core 1 box with perl 5.8.3. the server is shutting > down services because of being out of memory, etc.. When I run Top it > shows perl is dominating 98% cpu time and 70 % of the memory. This occurs > even when httpd is shutdown. Any ideas how to find out what is causing > this? ObNitpick: Perl is not a web-based process. Many web applications have been written in perl, but thinking that perl should not be doing anything unless a web server is running is as absurd as thinking that your C libraries should not be in use unless a game is running. Now that that's out of the way, the first thing I would try, if you want to find the cause, is to get the process ID from top and then do a `ps ` to see what command-line arguments it was given, which is likely to include the name of the script it's running. You could also try `pstree -p | less` and search in less for the runaway process's pid to see what started it. Or, if you just want to get rid of it and you're not that worried about why it's there, you can always just `kill `... (Well, OK, it sounds like a recurring problem. So write a script (preferably in perl for the sake of poetic justice) that periodically checks `top -n 1` and automatically kills off any processes exceeding a certain amount of memory usage and/or cumulative CPU time. Or you could probably do something with ulimit to do the same auto-kill, but that's less fun than teaching perl to kill perl.) -- The freedoms that we enjoy presently are the most important victories of the White Hats over the past several millennia, and it is vitally important that we don't give them up now, only because we are frightened. - Eolake Stobblehouse (http://stobblehouse.com/text/battle.html) From webmaster at mn-linux.org Wed Mar 23 17:19:11 2005 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Wed Mar 23 17:20:39 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200503232319.j2NNJBw02617@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: Adaptec SCSI drivers I have 2 Adpatec 29160 SCSI controllers available for $75 each or both for $140. contact me at sales@bbwh.com and we can make arrangements. I can take V or MC and delivery is extra. Seller Email address: marty at borderbound dot net http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From webmaster at mn-linux.org Wed Mar 23 17:23:09 2005 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Wed Mar 23 17:24:41 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200503232323.j2NNN9W03744@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: chrome orb fans I have 2 chrome orb cooling fans. $5 each or both for $8. delivery is extra, email me sales@bbwh.com for arrangements. Seller Email address: marty at borderbound dot net http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From webmaster at mn-linux.org Wed Mar 23 17:27:42 2005 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Wed Mar 23 17:28:39 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200503232327.j2NNRg404456@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: 36 GB SCSI HDs I have at least 2. I'm asking $35 each for them. These are Seagate "Cheetah" SCSI HD's, used 18 months then pulled offline, still functional. They are sold as-is (believed scrubbed clean of OS). contact me at sales@bbwh.com for arrangements. I can take V or MC and delivery is extra. Seller Email address: marty at borderbound dot net http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From josh at tcbug.org Wed Mar 23 18:23:29 2005 From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel) Date: Wed Mar 23 18:24:41 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for Linux Friends In-Reply-To: <1111609779.4241d1b35879e@my.visi.com> References: <000801c52fe0$b822df00$727dfea9@home1> <1111609779.4241d1b35879e@my.visi.com> Message-ID: <200503231823.29715.josh@tcbug.org> On Wednesday 23 March 2005 14:29, smac@visi.com wrote: > I think I lost my position as the lugger farthest west! > > I live in Excelsior and have been on the list for about 2 years. > > Sam > I have you all beat....Brownton...about 10 miles south of Hutchinson and 10 miles west of Glencoe. :) -- Thanks, Josh Paetzel From leif.t.johnson at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 22:17:42 2005 From: leif.t.johnson at gmail.com (Leif Johnson) Date: Wed Mar 23 22:18:42 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for Linux Friends In-Reply-To: <200503231823.29715.josh@tcbug.org> References: <000801c52fe0$b822df00$727dfea9@home1> <1111609779.4241d1b35879e@my.visi.com> <200503231823.29715.josh@tcbug.org> Message-ID: > I have you all beat....Brownton...about 10 miles south of Hutchinson > and 10 miles west of Glencoe. :) Even though I now live in Minneapolis I still consider the SF Bay Area to be my home, so I claim farthest west! leif From there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com Thu Mar 24 09:22:51 2005 From: there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com (Loren H. Burlingame) Date: Thu Mar 24 09:24:48 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] semi-complex wireless setup with multiple NAT gateways - need advice Message-ID: I am setting up a 34 floor condominium with wireless access. I have found that the Belkin Pre-N access points have a very excellent range which means I will only need 1 per floor (this has been tested, I could actually get away with 1 every other floor). The problem lies in the fact that these devices are very consumer-level and are hard-wired to only support a single /24 subnet per device while it's firewall is enabled (which I need in order to block SMB ports from other wireless users. No, there is no ability to do static routing and they will all be hooked up in series via Ethernet). With a potential of 300+ users I am not comfortable with a single /24. The only other option is to basically treat every wireless device as a NAT/firewall/router with it's own /24 dhcp pool. However, this would mean that users on the last AP in the daisy-chain will have to go through 35 NAT gateways before reaching the Internet. Does anybody see this as a problem? -- Loren H. Burlingame GPG Key ID: 0x112DCF4F "Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes." -William Shatner (a.k.a. Buck Murdock) From natecars at real-time.com Thu Mar 24 09:59:18 2005 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Thu Mar 24 10:02:48 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] semi-complex wireless setup with multiple NAT gateways - need advice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Mar 2005, Loren H. Burlingame wrote: > they will all be hooked up in series via Ethernet). <..> > However, this would mean that users on the last AP in the daisy-chain > will have to go through 35 NAT gateways before reaching the Internet. > > Does anybody see this as a problem? You're just asking for problems. - The multiple NAT gateways will break nat-unfriendly protocols hugely - You're daisy chaining ethernet. Bad idea! You always want to pull everything you can back to a central switch. At the very least, put a switch every 10 floors or something. http://support.intel.com/support/express/switches/10100fast/sb/cs-010971.htm - If a AP in the middle fails/gets rebooted, everyone above them looses access My recommendation would be to run each AP back to one central switch (if you can); otherwise, put a switch every X floors, connected to one central switch, and hang your AP's off those switches. This will also allow you to just run NAT on each individual AP with a separate /24. If you can assign a public IP to each AP, that will only be one NAT per user; if you have to do NAT on the border too, it'll at least only be two NAT gateways (still breaks a fair number of protocols.) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From smac at visi.com Thu Mar 24 10:09:39 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Thu Mar 24 10:08:48 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] semi-complex wireless setup with multiple NAT gateways - need advice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4242E643.7050307@visi.com> "Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes." Have you looked at less "consumer-level" solutions? Yes you will spend more money, but you may gain some features like sub netting that you don't get with the "consumer-level" hardware solutions. Sam. Loren H. Burlingame wrote: >I am setting up a 34 floor condominium with wireless access. I have >found that the Belkin Pre-N access points have a very excellent range >which means I will only need 1 per floor (this has been tested, I >could actually get away with 1 every other floor). The problem lies in >the fact that these devices are very consumer-level and are hard-wired >to only support a single /24 subnet per device while it's firewall is >enabled (which I need in order to block SMB ports from other wireless >users. No, there is no ability to do static routing and they will all >be hooked up in series via Ethernet). > >With a potential of 300+ users I am not comfortable with a single /24. > >The only other option is to basically treat every wireless device as a >NAT/firewall/router with it's own /24 dhcp pool. However, this would >mean that users on the last AP in the daisy-chain will have to go >through 35 NAT gateways before reaching the Internet. > >Does anybody see this as a problem? > > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.1 - Release Date: 3/23/2005 From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Thu Mar 24 11:23:20 2005 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Thu Mar 24 11:23:59 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] perl dominating cpu and memory In-Reply-To: <1143.64.8.148.29.1111614870.squirrel@64.8.148.29> References: <1143.64.8.148.29.1111614870.squirrel@64.8.148.29> Message-ID: <20050324172320.GA32664@mail.el-swifto.com> On Wed, Mar 23, 2005 at 03:54:30PM -0600, Raymond Norton wrote: > I am running a fedora core 1 box with perl 5.8.3. the server is > shutting down services because of being out of memory, etc.. When I > run Top it shows perl is dominating 98% cpu time and 70 % of the > memory. This occurs even when httpd is shutdown. Any ideas how to find > out what is causing this? Raymond: Were you able to fix this problem? I don't want Perl getting a bad^H^H^Hworse name around here... -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota From webmaster at mn-linux.org Thu Mar 24 12:28:14 2005 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Thu Mar 24 12:28:50 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200503241828.j2OISEb20286@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: 9 GB SCSI HDs I have *at least* 8 of these available. These were in servers that ran for about 18 month, then taken offline. these are fully functional and sold as-is. Asking $50 each for them (compare to $68 plus shipping on www.pricewatch.com). Will sell in muliples of 4 @ $45 each. email me at sales@bbwh. for arrangements. I take V or MC and delivery is extra. Seller Email address: marty at borderbound dot net http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From webmaster at mn-linux.org Thu Mar 24 12:37:18 2005 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Thu Mar 24 12:38:50 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200503241837.j2OIbIY22875@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: 36GB SCSI HDs Please include a detailed description of the item including any accessories, warranty, age, defects, and payment requirements or information. For your own safety, please do not include any contact information. Your buyers will be able to email you from your ad. Seller Email address: marty at borderbound dot net http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From seg at haxxed.com Thu Mar 24 16:11:36 2005 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Thu Mar 24 16:12:53 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] semi-complex wireless setup with multiple NAT gateways - need advice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1111702297.19750.46.camel@bigtime.booze> On Thu, 2005-03-24 at 09:22 -0600, Loren H. Burlingame wrote: > I am setting up a 34 floor condominium with wireless access. I have > found that the Belkin Pre-N access points have a very excellent range > which means I will only need 1 per floor (this has been tested, I > could actually get away with 1 every other floor). The problem lies in > the fact that these devices are very consumer-level and are hard-wired > to only support a single /24 subnet per device while it's firewall is > enabled (which I need in order to block SMB ports from other wireless > users. No, there is no ability to do static routing and they will all > be hooked up in series via Ethernet). > > With a potential of 300+ users I am not comfortable with a single /24. > > The only other option is to basically treat every wireless device as a > NAT/firewall/router with it's own /24 dhcp pool. However, this would > mean that users on the last AP in the daisy-chain will have to go > through 35 NAT gateways before reaching the Internet. > > Does anybody see this as a problem? Pre-N is a bit bleeding edge, and obviously not standard. It will be obsolete when the real N comes out. Reading through forums, there's some concern than Belkin's Pre-N gets its speed by stomping all over the 2.4ghz spectrum, ruining reception for everyone else, I wonder how well a building full of them will get along with each other, let alone any other wireless networks in the area... Maybe you can disable the Pre-N, but then why use pricier pre-N AP's. Is the range really that much better, even without using Pre-N? Have you tried something more conventional, like the WRT54G series or a Belkin F5D7230-4 (Which I've written custom firmware for, which I really should release today... *self plug*) I got my F5D7230-4 for $20 after rebates. The WRT54G series, F5D7230-4, and others based on the same chipset, (Buffalotech, ASUS, etc...) are well known and widely hacked at this point, and thus custom firmware can be written to do absolutely anything you could want it to do. You can make them firewall and route however whatever you want. Apparently the Pre-N's run Linux, but I haven't seen anyone hack custom firmware yet. If I got my hands on one I could possibly be the first to do that too... And if you use the router models instead of AP's, you don't have to hook them all to a switch, because they ARE switches. Or you could use WDS. Which cuts your bandwidth in half, but thats still should be enough to share internet. But I don't know how well WDS scales up to 34 AP's... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050324/ede7c6e5/attachment.pgp From there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com Thu Mar 24 16:36:00 2005 From: there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com (Loren H. Burlingame) Date: Thu Mar 24 16:36:52 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] semi-complex wireless setup with multiple NAT gateways - need advice In-Reply-To: <1111702297.19750.46.camel@bigtime.booze> References: <1111702297.19750.46.camel@bigtime.booze> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:11:36 -0600, Callum Lerwick wrote: > Pre-N is a bit bleeding edge, and obviously not standard. It will be > obsolete when the real N comes out. Well, yes it is very bleeding edge. However it is still backward compatible with b and g (apparently without drooping the entire network speed either) and I am sure that future Belkin adapters will support their pre-n (non)standard. > > Reading through forums, there's some concern than Belkin's Pre-N gets > its speed by stomping all over the 2.4ghz spectrum, ruining reception > for everyone else, I wonder how well a building full of them will get > along with each other, let alone any other wireless networks in the > area... Maybe you can disable the Pre-N, but then why use pricier pre-N > AP's. Is the range really that much better, even without using Pre-N? Yeah, that is a good point. I have only so far tested 2 in relatively close proximity and as long as they are about 5 channels apart it is fine. I plan to spread the channels as far apart as I can between the floors. > > Have you tried something more conventional, like the WRT54G series or a > Belkin F5D7230-4 (Which I've written custom firmware for, which I really > should release today... *self plug*) Well, I will say this. Before I came on the scene my predecessor had tried to set up a similar gig using conventional Cisco Aironet 802.11b equipment and failed miserably to get signal very far into the building. This time around my employer wanted to try something with more power. I do not profess to be any kind of wireless expert but I do know that the Pre-N range is bloody unbelievable. > > The WRT54G series, F5D7230-4, and others based on the same chipset, > (Buffalotech, ASUS, etc...) are well known and widely hacked at this > point, and thus custom firmware can be written to do absolutely anything > you could want it to do. You can make them firewall and route however > whatever you want. I do wish that I had time to research this issue more before hand, but I am stuck with what I have at this point. I will make it work. > > And if you use the router models instead of AP's, you don't have to hook > them all to a switch, because they ARE switches. well yes, albeit 4 port switches. I was thinking I could go 4 floors at a time hooked into one AP but that would still leave 6 NAT gateways (better than 35 for sure) I think I am going to go with the central switch idea though, a lot more cabling, but probably the best option. > > Or you could use WDS. Which cuts your bandwidth in half, but thats still > should be enough to share internet. But I don't know how well WDS scales > up to 34 AP's... Plus the Pre-N APs don't appear to have bridging capability. -- Loren H. Burlingame GPG Key ID: 0x112DCF4F "Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes." -William Shatner (a.k.a. Buck Murdock) From seg at haxxed.com Thu Mar 24 17:44:11 2005 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Thu Mar 24 17:44:52 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] semi-complex wireless setup with multiple NAT gateways - need advice In-Reply-To: References: <1111702297.19750.46.camel@bigtime.booze> Message-ID: <1111707851.19750.80.camel@bigtime.booze> > well yes, albeit 4 port switches. I was thinking I could go 4 floors > at a time hooked into one AP but that would still leave 6 NAT gateways > (better than 35 for sure) Actually, 5 ports, if you change some nvram settings you can set up the WAN to operate as an additional LAN port... > Plus the Pre-N APs don't appear to have bridging capability. I'm confused, are you using AP's, or are you using routers? AP's should be bridging by definition. I don't see any Pre-N AP's listed on Belkin's site... I know the stock 7230 firmware supports an AP mode. Have you made sure you have the latest firmware? Apparently the earlier Pre-N firmware was missing a lot of stuff that was later added. If they're routers, even without an AP mode, they should be bridging between the wireless and the LAN anyway. Just leave the WAN link hanging, hook them all together through a LAN port, give them all fixed LAN IP's, and disable DHCP serving. Then put a PC on the LAN network, serving up a 10.x.0.0/16 network via DHCP and providing the WAN connection. ... That should theoretically work. The key is being able to disable DHCP serving so the PC can serve up a /16 network. And the routers probably need to have STP enabled, which I think the 7230's do... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050324/b6fa448a/attachment.pgp From jay-tclug at 3pound.com Thu Mar 24 17:45:28 2005 From: jay-tclug at 3pound.com (Jay J) Date: Thu Mar 24 17:50:53 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] perl dominating cpu and memory In-Reply-To: <1143.64.8.148.29.1111614870.squirrel@64.8.148.29> References: <1143.64.8.148.29.1111614870.squirrel@64.8.148.29> Message-ID: <20050324174528.2f7315b3@jthink.zeroink.com> On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:54:30 -0600 (CST) Raymond Norton wrote: > I am running a fedora core 1 box with perl 5.8.3. the server is > shutting down services because of being out of memory, etc.. When I > run Top it shows perl is dominating 98% cpu time and 70 % of the > memory. This occurs even when httpd is shutdown. Any ideas how to find > out what is causing this? Anytime I find myself wondering "what is that?!" (hopefully rarely), I look to 'ps' first, then 'lsof'. Try: lsof -nP -c perl -Jay From admin at lctn.org Thu Mar 24 18:38:43 2005 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Thu Mar 24 18:41:04 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] perl dominating cpu and memory In-Reply-To: <20050324172320.GA32664@mail.el-swifto.com> References: <1143.64.8.148.29.1111614870.squirrel@64.8.148.29> <20050324172320.GA32664@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: <45717.209.176.212.10.1111711123.squirrel@209.176.212.10> I found the culprit. It is a perl script that runs hourly for WebGUI. For now I have disabled it till I can figure out why it is causing problems. Thanks much for the help Raymond From there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com Thu Mar 24 18:44:06 2005 From: there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com (Loren H. Burlingame) Date: Thu Mar 24 18:45:03 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] semi-complex wireless setup with multiple NAT gateways - need advice In-Reply-To: <1111707851.19750.80.camel@bigtime.booze> References: <1111702297.19750.46.camel@bigtime.booze> <1111707851.19750.80.camel@bigtime.booze> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:44:11 -0600, Callum Lerwick wrote: > > well yes, albeit 4 port switches. I was thinking I could go 4 floors > > at a time hooked into one AP but that would still leave 6 NAT gateways > > (better than 35 for sure) > > Actually, 5 ports, if you change some nvram settings you can set up the > WAN to operate as an additional LAN port... > Well that would be something. How would I go about changing the nvram if not through the provided web interface? > > Plus the Pre-N APs don't appear to have bridging capability. > > I'm confused, are you using AP's, or are you using routers? AP's should > be bridging by definition. I don't see any Pre-N AP's listed on Belkin's > site... yeah, uh....I am mixing up my terminology. I meant routers. > > I know the stock 7230 firmware supports an AP mode. Have you made sure > you have the latest firmware? Apparently the earlier Pre-N firmware was > missing a lot of stuff that was later added. I did not see any updated firmware on Belkin's site > > If they're routers, even without an AP mode, they should be bridging > between the wireless and the LAN anyway. Just leave the WAN link > hanging, hook them all together through a LAN port, give them all fixed > LAN IP's, and disable DHCP serving. Then put a PC on the LAN network, > serving up a 10.x.0.0/16 network via DHCP and providing the WAN > connection. roit....well I would do this actually, but (at least through the web interface) they will only allow a /24 (as the first 3 octets are provided for you based on the IP of the LAN address) > > ... That should theoretically work. The key is being able to disable > DHCP serving so the PC can serve up a /16 network. And the routers > probably need to have STP enabled, which I think the 7230's do... Well, the only problem is that I would not be able to block SMB ports from others on the same network without doing it at router itself.....and since the router will only take responsibility for the /24 it is on, I cannot reliably do that with this method. -- Loren H. Burlingame GPG Key ID: 0x112DCF4F "Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes." -William Shatner (a.k.a. Buck Murdock) From jnevala at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 08:26:11 2005 From: jnevala at gmail.com (Jonathan Nevala) Date: Fri Mar 25 08:27:04 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] semi-complex wireless setup with multiple NAT gateways - need advice In-Reply-To: References: <1111702297.19750.46.camel@bigtime.booze> <1111707851.19750.80.camel@bigtime.booze> Message-ID: "Well, I will say this. Before I came on the scene my predecessor had tried to set up a similar gig using conventional Cisco Aironet 802.11b equipment and failed miserably to get signal very far into the building. This time around my employer wanted to try something with more power." I happen to be Lorens predecessor and the Cisco equipment I was given to try was pretty much pathetic. Its signal basically would only reach about fifty feet of each floor and about a ten foot area of the floor above and below before dropping signal. I tried as many possible placements of the equipment as reasonably possible with a few different types of antennas trying to direct it. So using Lorens word I most definately failed miserably in getting the provided equipment to work with that building. From chewie at wookimus.net Fri Mar 25 10:03:23 2005 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Fri Mar 25 10:15:03 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] semi-complex wireless setup with multiple NAT gateways - need advice In-Reply-To: References: <1111702297.19750.46.camel@bigtime.booze> <1111707851.19750.80.camel@bigtime.booze> Message-ID: <20050325160323.GB21821@wookimus.net> On Fri, Mar 25, 2005 at 08:26:11AM -0600, Jonathan Nevala wrote: > I happen to be Lorens predecessor and the Cisco equipment I was given > to try was pretty much pathetic. Its signal basically would only > reach about fifty feet of each floor and about a ten foot area of the > floor above and below before dropping signal. I tried as many > possible placements of the equipment as reasonably possible with a few > different types of antennas trying to direct it. So using Lorens word > I most definately failed miserably in getting the provided equipment > to work with that building. One method of getting around this is to mount antenna to the wireless AP's on the outside of the building aligned to shoot up and down the sides of the building. Access is then obtained by the clients by setting up the receiving antenna by a window, or outside the window. If you mount the AP at the top of the building pointing downwards, you may even be able to cover some of the parking lot and commons areas. I would then place additional AP's in "common areas" within the building itself. An added bonus to this type of setup is that your broadcast is very localized, hopefully reducing interference from 2.4 GHz telephones and the like. -- Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050325/b9452a3a/attachment.pgp From jnevala at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 10:47:42 2005 From: jnevala at gmail.com (Jonathan Nevala) Date: Fri Mar 25 10:49:01 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] semi-complex wireless setup with multiple NAT gateways - need advice In-Reply-To: References: <1111702297.19750.46.camel@bigtime.booze> <1111707851.19750.80.camel@bigtime.booze> Message-ID: Loren said: "I hope you did not take that the wrong way. I did not mean to imply that it was you who failed. just the equipment. No at all. The fact was that I failed to accomplish what I was trying to do with what was provided. Can't hide from that. Glad its going good for you. From ces.fci at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 14:39:38 2005 From: ces.fci at gmail.com (fci) Date: Fri Mar 25 14:41:04 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] import mysql databases Message-ID: so I am going to be importing several mysql databases into a "fresh" server mysql install that already has 40 empty databases for some reason. my plan right now is to cp -R /var/lib/mysql /var/lib/mysql_backup (only in case the actions following this action fails) then go into phpMyAdmin to drop all the databases while logged in as the root mysql user(including mysql db). then mysql -uroot < new_databases.sql I'm just wondering if this will be okay.. my guess is that it might be okay.. but I usually second guess myself so I figured I would ask first. clayton From random at argle.org Fri Mar 25 17:32:27 2005 From: random at argle.org (random@argle.org) Date: Fri Mar 25 17:29:05 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] import mysql databases In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Mar 2005, fci wrote: > so I am going to be importing several mysql databases into a "fresh" > server mysql install that already has 40 empty databases for some > reason. > my plan right now is to > cp -R /var/lib/mysql /var/lib/mysql_backup (only in case the actions > following this action fails) > > then go into phpMyAdmin to drop all the databases while logged in as > the root mysql user(including mysql db). > then mysql -uroot < new_databases.sql > > I use mysqldump myself. It works well and you can change your default database type or move to a different binary platform without worrying about compatibility. I especially like the ability to back all the databases up simultaneously. -- Daniel Taylor random@argle.org Forget diamonds, Copyright is forever. From seg at haxxed.com Sat Mar 26 03:32:35 2005 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Sat Mar 26 03:33:12 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] semi-complex wireless setup with multiple NAT gateways - need advice In-Reply-To: References: <1111702297.19750.46.camel@bigtime.booze> <1111707851.19750.80.camel@bigtime.booze> Message-ID: <1111829555.21303.31.camel@bigtime.booze> > Well that would be something. How would I go about changing the nvram > if not through the provided web interface? Hack the firmware. :) Apparently Belkin has released the source code for once, though I haven't heard of anyone trying to build it yet. I just got in contact with someone trying to hack the 8230 Pre-N routers. They are very similar to the 7230 series. They apparently have (sweet bejesus!) 64mb of flash and 128mb of ram. And only around 2mb of that flash is used, which would make hacking it much easier... Unlike the 7230 I'm hacking which has 2mb flash total, and the standard firmware eats every last byte. No room to squeeze in your own stuff without removing something else... > roit....well I would do this actually, but (at least through the web > interface) they will only allow a /24 (as the first 3 octets are > provided for you based on the IP of the LAN address) Doesn't really matter, as you'd just be using the routers as bridges anyway. They just pass packets between the wireless and LAN at layer 2. The IP and netmask the routers are using are only a concern for how to get at them to administrate them. They can all be on their own /24, separate from the public range. > Well, the only problem is that I would not be able to block SMB ports > from others on the same network without doing it at router > itself.....and since the router will only take responsibility for the > /24 it is on, I cannot reliably do that with this method. That would be the weakness to this approach. But it seems like its the best you can do with the standard firmware. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050326/843e386c/attachment.pgp From ces.fci at gmail.com Sun Mar 27 22:30:39 2005 From: ces.fci at gmail.com (fci) Date: Sun Mar 27 22:31:35 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Re: import mysql databases In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: it wouldn't let me do myisamchk -r /var/lib/mysql/*/*MYI since there were so many files.. so I did this: /etc/rc.d/init.d/mysql stop for i in /var/lib/mysql/*; do for j in ${i}/*MYI; do myisamchk -r ${j} done; done; /etc/rc.d/init.d/mysql start clayton On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 14:39:38 -0600, fci wrote: > so I am going to be importing several mysql databases into a "fresh" > server mysql install that already has 40 empty databases for some > reason. > my plan right now is to > cp -R /var/lib/mysql /var/lib/mysql_backup (only in case the actions > following this action fails) > > then go into phpMyAdmin to drop all the databases while logged in as > the root mysql user(including mysql db). > then mysql -uroot < new_databases.sql > > I'm just wondering if this will be okay.. my guess is that it might be > okay.. but I usually second guess myself so I figured I would ask > first. > > clayton > From poptix at poptix.net Mon Mar 28 04:03:40 2005 From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Mar 28 04:05:38 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Re: [Dvdrtools-users] Does Linux support external USB DVD writers? In-Reply-To: <2424.67.176.44.28.1111852007.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> References: <20050326012011.12508.qmail@web61301.mail.yahoo.com> <2424.67.176.44.28.1111852007.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Message-ID: <20050328100340.GD10682@momentum.poptix.net> On Sat, Mar 26, 2005 at 10:46:47AM -0500, ethan@audio-crusade.com wrote: > > I got one to work. A sony 4th gen DRU-530A DVD+RW/+R/-R. I am no linux USB > expert but my upgraded debian SiD distro with a 2.6.10 kernal made it > pretty easy. There is a daemon called usbmgr which takes care of detecting > the device and loading the appropriate kernel modules. > .... I was then able to > use mkisofs (took some learning of options to build an iso that Windoze > would read) and use dvdrtools (took some figuring to find the right /dev) > to burn DVD-R's and read them back on Windoze as well as linux. For some > reason I haven't followed up on +R format wasn't recognized. You should look into K3B, http://www.k3b.org/ -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From lclemens at mn.rr.com Mon Mar 28 07:29:05 2005 From: lclemens at mn.rr.com (Lawrence Clemens) Date: Mon Mar 28 07:29:37 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Excel/Spreadsheet Online Resource Message-ID: <000601c5339a$1d41aa30$24fea8c0@selfp6xu3g1ng9> A friend asked me for an online resource to learn the ins and outs of spreadsheets. He travels all the time and can't take any community college, etc. type course. Any suggestions? There seem to be a lot of players out there, but which are the good ones? Larry Clemens -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050328/15e5d798/attachment.html From sulrich at botwerks.org Mon Mar 28 07:52:44 2005 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Mon Mar 28 07:53:41 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Excel/Spreadsheet Online Resource In-Reply-To: <000601c5339a$1d41aa30$24fea8c0@selfp6xu3g1ng9> References: <000601c5339a$1d41aa30$24fea8c0@selfp6xu3g1ng9> Message-ID: <11de84b1e3d602695e93bb8bff668e85@botwerks.org> On Mar 28, 2005, at 7:29 AM, Lawrence Clemens wrote: > A friend asked me for an online resource to learn the ins and outs of > spreadsheets.? He travels all the time and can't take any community > college, etc. type course. Any suggestions?? There seem to be a lot of > players out there, but which are the good ones?? i don't know of any online resources that discuss the IOs of spreadsheets. but when i found that i was running up against the wall with my knowledge of some of excel's deeper voodoo, i found the following books quite helpful. Spreadsheet Tools for Engineers: Excel - Byron Gottfried http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0072480688/ qid=1112017170/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/102-1480983-1298533? v=glance&s=books&n=507846 Guide to Microsoft Excel 2002 for Scientists and Engineers - Bernard Liengme http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0750656131/ qid=1112017170/sr=8-3/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl14/102-1480983-1298533? v=glance&s=books&n=507846 while it might be fashionable to hate MS in some crowds. excel and word are 2 applications that i happen to have a tremendous amount of respect for. powerpoint on the other hand ... ;-) -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PGP.sig Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050328/234f1595/PGP.pgp From tommyj27 at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 08:36:16 2005 From: tommyj27 at gmail.com (Thomas Johnson) Date: Mon Mar 28 08:37:40 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Re: [Dvdrtools-users] Does Linux support external USB DVD writers? In-Reply-To: <20050328100340.GD10682@momentum.poptix.net> References: <20050326012011.12508.qmail@web61301.mail.yahoo.com> <2424.67.176.44.28.1111852007.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> <20050328100340.GD10682@momentum.poptix.net> Message-ID: <1469cda205032806363b97f009@mail.gmail.com> was this actually posted on TC-LUG or did poptix cross-post by mistake? i am using a toshiba dvd+/-rw in a sony usb2 enclosure with no problems, worked fine with xcdroast and i recently switched to k3b because it's a lot less hassle. dvd+r works without a hitch also, as that's the only format i've used in mine. getting the 2.6 set up properly can be a bear sometimes. From smac at visi.com Mon Mar 28 09:44:47 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Mar 28 09:45:41 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Tivo Questions Message-ID: <4248266F.3000804@visi.com> My wife won a Tivo that can record 40 hours of TV, my first reaction was "So who wants to watch TV". I like books, researching, and learning, without cable there is not much of anything worth staring at. I also found that I would have to sign up for a service that would cost $13 every month or $300 for a life time. LOLROF I can't imagine why I would pay either price! Question: Has anyone been able to use this thing without the service? Can I sign up and quit the service but still use the device? Can the device be hacked so it can be used like a VCR for recording (wife likes 24)? or Do I put it up for sale? Sam. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 From andyzib at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 10:11:25 2005 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Mar 28 10:11:42 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Tivo Questions In-Reply-To: <4248266F.3000804@visi.com> References: <4248266F.3000804@visi.com> Message-ID: I thought TiVo offers two flavors of service now...the free one that will let you get some listings, but doesn't offer season pass, wishlists, and all that, and their normal pay service that lets you use those features. You can use TiVo without any TiVo service. It will work just like a VCR...you can set manual recordings and all that. It used to be that it would only tell you what time and date it recorded without TiVo service though, but I think they changed that with the new free service. On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 09:44:47 -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > My wife won a Tivo that can record 40 hours of TV, my first reaction was > "So who wants to watch TV". > I like books, researching, and learning, without cable there is not much > of anything worth staring at. > > I also found that I would have to sign up for a service that would cost > $13 every month or $300 for a life time. > LOLROF I can't imagine why I would pay either price! > > Question: > Has anyone been able to use this thing without the service? > Can I sign up and quit the service but still use the device? > Can the device be hacked so it can be used like a VCR for recording > (wife likes 24)? > or > Do I put it up for sale? > > Sam. > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. From adam at whee.org Mon Mar 28 10:16:42 2005 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Mar 28 10:31:42 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Tivo Questions In-Reply-To: <4248266F.3000804@visi.com> References: <4248266F.3000804@visi.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Mar 2005, Sam MacDonald wrote: > My wife won a Tivo that can record 40 hours of TV, my first reaction was "So > who wants to watch TV". > I like books, researching, and learning, without cable there is not much of > anything worth staring at. > > I also found that I would have to sign up for a service that would cost $13 > every month or $300 for a life time. > LOLROF I can't imagine why I would pay either price! Considering $10/month to rent a cable DVR that you don't own and doesn't even come close to matching TiVo's features, $13/month isn't bad. When I didn't have cable, TiVo would've been a really cheap way to make broadcast TV worth watching for me. Since the few times I could sit down and watch, with only a handful of channels, there was almost nothing on. At least with Tivo I could've recorded the few things I watched on broadcast TV, like Nova and and Sesame Street (Big Bird is SOOO cool!) It would've saved me the $50/month I'm now paying for cable - until I decided that I absolutely HAVE to get ESPN2 so I can watch women's billiards (mmm...Jeanette Lee) Then I bought the TiVo because most billiards is on during the day when I can't watch. (I just bought my first TiVo a month ago...) > Question: > Has anyone been able to use this thing without the service? See below > Can I sign up and quit the service but still use the device? A series 2 Tivo is a boatanchor without the service. > Can the device be hacked so it can be used like a VCR for recording (wife > likes 24)? I think the series 1 units could operate in VCR mode w/o a subscription, but from what I've read, the series 2 will not even do that. An s2 without a sub can do live TV (incl. rewind/fast forward, 30 second skip), but that's about it. Hardly worthwhile. For the discounts and rebates their giving on the units, they are taking a huge loss to get the product out the door, and need to make that money back on the service. That's why it's useless w/o the service - they are taking a loss unless you sign up. > or > Do I put it up for sale? If you can't justify the cost, you're better off doing this. Keep in mind that they are now offering an 80-hour unit for $99 after rebate, so a used (open-box) 40-hour unit won't fetch much. I might be interested in taking it off your hands for the right price - adding a 2nd unit to my service is only $6.95/month. That, or my brother has been talking about buying one. Also remember that the $300 "lifetime" subscription is only good for the life of the unit. For this reason, I am currently on the $12.95/month plan until I figure out what I want to do long-term. Now, on to using it w/o service: This would violate the terms of service for using the TiVo software on the unit. If you look around in alt.video.ptv.tivo, you'll see that this argument has been beaten to death a number of times. And discussion about how to do what you're talking about is taboo among the community. That said, it has been done. That was my last reason for holding off buying one until recently - if TiVo went out of business, and for some reason no one bought the subscriber base, I wanted to make sure I wasn't sitting on a $200 boat anchor. The only group I know of that's done this was some guys in Canada (since they can't get Tivo service), and they have stated they will not release their code to residents in areas that can get Tivo service. Maybe try the service for a month or two and see how you like it. It really did make TV better for me. I have very limited times when I can sit down and watch. Even with ~70 channel cable, there was always crap on when I actually had time. Now when I have those precious few hours each week to watch, I sit down and get to pick from a list of things that I actually like. And the 30-second skip means I can watch a 30-minute program in under 20 minutes. And instant replay means I can watch Lee's jump shot in the 2004 WPBA finals against Fisher over and over again. But if you are interested in selling it, or have more questions from a new Tivo owner, ping me off-list and we can talk. From dcoats at heritagemail.org Mon Mar 28 10:35:32 2005 From: dcoats at heritagemail.org (Doug Coats) Date: Mon Mar 28 10:37:43 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Good scanner for Linux Message-ID: <001a01c533b4$29bd7860$7a06a8c0@secondary1> I am in the process of making the plunge to using Fedora Core 3 on my desktop but my old Visioneer PaperPort 6000 scanner is not recognized by Xsane. I am not to torn up about it since it is fairly old and slow. What can you all suggest for a decent home scanner that works with FC out of the box. Preferably something that is common enough to pick up at my local Best Buy or other hardware retailer. Since I will be new to scanning with Linux any other advice or wisdom that you could pass along would be appreciated as well. Thanks for your thoughts, Doug From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Mon Mar 28 10:31:44 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Mon Mar 28 10:38:36 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Tivo Questions In-Reply-To: <4248266F.3000804@visi.com> References: <4248266F.3000804@visi.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Mar 2005, Sam MacDonald wrote: > Question: > Has anyone been able to use this thing without the service? > Can I sign up and quit the service but still use the device? > Can the device be hacked so it can be used like a VCR for recording (wife > likes 24)? There seem to be several kinds of devices and services. I have DirecTV and I added the TiVo service to that for $5/mo, so I'm paying $50 per month altogether for DirecTV/DirecTiVo. It is actually a really nice combination with digital recording of a digital signal which makes playback identical to watching the direct feed. I have a question: Does anyone here have experience with hacking these things? Mine is a Philips DSR708. It has a USB port that doesn't do anything with the current software. I would like to be able to access its files on the local network, copy them to my PC and write them to DVD. If someone here can make my device do that, I can pay you for the service and for any needed parts. Mike From adam at whee.org Mon Mar 28 10:43:51 2005 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Mar 28 10:59:41 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Tivo Questions In-Reply-To: References: <4248266F.3000804@visi.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Mar 2005, Mike Miller wrote: > There seem to be several kinds of devices and services. I have DirecTV and I > added the TiVo service to that for $5/mo, so I'm paying $50 per month > altogether for DirecTV/DirecTiVo. It is actually a really nice combination > with digital recording of a digital signal which makes playback identical to > watching the direct feed. DirecTV has an agreement with TiVo - so you're getting a re-branded Tivo box and a discounted TiVo service. DTV probably pays a buck or two per subscriber per month, and then charges you a few bucks more to cover it. But it's basically the same software and service (except, no tivotogo for DTV yet). This is what Comcast will be doing in the next year or two, to replace their Motorola boxes. > I have a question: Does anyone here have experience with hacking these > things? Mine is a Philips DSR708. It has a USB port that doesn't do > anything with the current software. I would like to be able to access its > files on the local network, copy them to my PC and write them to DVD. If > someone here can make my device do that, I can pay you for the service and > for any needed parts. Dig around here: http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/ I'm pretty sure it's been done for that model. From andyzib at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 11:00:56 2005 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Mar 28 11:05:43 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Tivo Questions In-Reply-To: References: <4248266F.3000804@visi.com> Message-ID: > Also remember that the $300 "lifetime" subscription is only good for the > life of the unit. For this reason, I am currently on the $12.95/month > plan until I figure out what I want to do long-term. I purchased my TiVo back aroud 2001...and got the lifetime subscription knowing that I would be using my TiVo for more than two years.Thanks to TiVo, I still haven't purchased a VCR. Nearly 4 years later my original TiVo is still doing just fine (after adding an extra drive and network adapter, heh.) Very easy to justify the lifetime subscription if you know you'll love your TiVo and will use it for quite awhile. If you're not sure, you can always do the lifetime subscription later. TiVo is worth every penny I spent on it, and I spent alot of money on mine. TiVos were expensive buggers back in 01. :) @ Mike - The DirectTiVos are the least hackable TiVo models out there. Good luck with that. From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Mon Mar 28 11:11:36 2005 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Mar 28 11:13:42 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Tivo Questions In-Reply-To: <4248266F.3000804@visi.com> References: <4248266F.3000804@visi.com> Message-ID: <20050328111136.A6163@baker.space.umn.edu> On Mon, Mar 28, 2005 at 09:44:47AM -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > My wife won a Tivo that can record 40 hours of TV, my first reaction was > "So who wants to watch TV". > I like books, researching, and learning, without cable there is not much > of anything worth staring at. > > I also found that I would have to sign up for a service that would cost > $13 every month or $300 for a life time. > LOLROF I can't imagine why I would pay either price! I am a long time TiVo owner and I, like Adam, suggest you give it a try. Maybe you'd like TiVo's Home Media Options. I play my mp3s through my TiVo to my stereo since my stereo is near my TV, not my computer. You can also look at your digital photos on your TV, though I don't that often. Also, there are add-ons that allow you to check your email, web pages, local weather, movie listings, etc. from your TV. Take a look at javahmo.sourceforge.net (or its beta-level successor galleon.sourceforge.net) , which a leading third-party app for TiVo. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons | From bgilbertson at stonel.com Mon Mar 28 11:31:42 2005 From: bgilbertson at stonel.com (Bob Gilbertson) Date: Mon Mar 28 11:33:42 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Good scanner for Linux In-Reply-To: <001a01c533b4$29bd7860$7a06a8c0@secondary1> References: <001a01c533b4$29bd7860$7a06a8c0@secondary1> Message-ID: <42483F7E.9070907@stonel.com> I've been using the Epson CX5400 multi-function at home over a year. Mandrake had no problem with either scan or print setup. Standalone B&W or color copy is a bonus. Been happy with it so far. Don't remember if I use xsane or kooka to access it. http://www.sane-project.org/sane-mfgs.html Bob Doug Coats wrote: > I am in the process of making the plunge to using Fedora Core 3 on my > desktop but my old Visioneer PaperPort 6000 scanner is not recognized by > Xsane. I am not to torn up about it since it is fairly old and slow. > > What can you all suggest for a decent home scanner that works with FC out of > the box. Preferably something that is common enough to pick up at my local > Best Buy or other hardware retailer. > > Since I will be new to scanning with Linux any other advice or wisdom that > you could pass along would be appreciated as well. > > Thanks for your thoughts, > > Doug From dave at math.umn.edu Mon Mar 28 11:58:57 2005 From: dave at math.umn.edu (Dave Carlson) Date: Mon Mar 28 11:59:42 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Good scanner for Linux In-Reply-To: <42483F7E.9070907@stonel.com> References: <001a01c533b4$29bd7860$7a06a8c0@secondary1> <42483F7E.9070907@stonel.com> Message-ID: <200503281159.00883.dave@math.umn.edu> On Monday 28 March 2005 11:31, Bob Gilbertson wrote: > I've been using the Epson CX5400 multi-function at home over a year. > Mandrake had no problem with either scan or print setup. Standalone > B&W or color copy is a bonus. Been happy with it so far. > Don't remember if I use xsane or kooka to access it. Same here - the scanning and printing both work great (I use xsane). I don't think you can pick it up at a retail outlet anymore though. -- -dave Dave Carlson Systems Administrator School of Mathematics, University of Minnesota http://www.math.umn.edu PGP/GPG Fingerprint: C3D0 9962 1E98 B742 132D 0E1A CE11 7C4B 5309 97A7 (visit http://www.gnupg.org for more information) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050328/e5eb3cd1/attachment.pgp From adam at whee.org Mon Mar 28 11:45:10 2005 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Mar 28 11:59:51 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Tivo Questions In-Reply-To: <20050328111136.A6163@baker.space.umn.edu> References: <4248266F.3000804@visi.com> <20050328111136.A6163@baker.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Mar 2005, Jim Crumley wrote: > Maybe you'd like TiVo's Home Media Options. I play my mp3s > through my TiVo to my stereo since my stereo is near my TV, not > my computer. You can also look at your digital photos on your > TV, though I don't that often. Also, there are add-ons that > allow you to check your email, web pages, local weather, movie > listings, etc. from your TV. Take a look at > javahmo.sourceforge.net (or its beta-level successor > galleon.sourceforge.net) , which a leading third-party app for > TiVo. I'll have to check out the SF projects above - I hadn't seen them. Don't forget TivoToGo. I just got the update a week or two ago, and I'm loving it. It's just about to the point where it makes upgrading the capacity on the tivo useless (for me at least). I can copy the video to my PC and either burn it to DVD for permanent archival, or just keep it around on my drive since I have ample disk space on my PC. If they can just improve the transfer speed, I'll be happy. Oh, and setting up recordings on-line, from Tivo's site. That's pretty cool. And I just got back from a trip, and I had brought Tivo with me. We usually record a few movies and shows before the trip and bring a couple VHS tapes with. This time, I setup recordings for some shows the rest of my group liked (all I had was pool and a bunch of cartoons from Adult Swim) We even hooked it up in the van (already had a power inverter). Made the 5 hour drive tolerable. From poptix at poptix.net Mon Mar 28 12:20:47 2005 From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Mar 28 12:21:43 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Re: [Dvdrtools-users] Does Linux support external USB DVD writers? In-Reply-To: <1469cda205032806363b97f009@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050326012011.12508.qmail@web61301.mail.yahoo.com> <2424.67.176.44.28.1111852007.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> <20050328100340.GD10682@momentum.poptix.net> <1469cda205032806363b97f009@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050328182047.GE10682@momentum.poptix.net> On Mon, Mar 28, 2005 at 08:36:16AM -0600, Thomas Johnson wrote: > was this actually posted on TC-LUG or did poptix cross-post by mistake? Oops, I blame the broken mailman reply-to configuration.. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From slushpupie at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 12:50:16 2005 From: slushpupie at gmail.com (slushpupie@gmail.com) Date: Mon Mar 28 12:51:44 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Gig NIC In-Reply-To: <1111605313.4241c041ab7c2@joshwelch.com> References: <1111605313.4241c041ab7c2@joshwelch.com> Message-ID: The Intel PRO cards do checksum offloading as well. Check the README with the drivers to see all the options they support. Other nice things about the Intel cards are your ability to adjust the number of descriptors used for transmit/recieve. -- Jay Kline http://www.slushpupie.com/ From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Mon Mar 28 13:53:19 2005 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Mar 28 13:53:43 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Tivo Questions In-Reply-To: References: <4248266F.3000804@visi.com> <20050328111136.A6163@baker.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20050328135319.A6774@baker.space.umn.edu> On Mon, Mar 28, 2005 at 11:45:10AM -0600, Adam Maloney wrote: > > Don't forget TivoToGo. I just got the update a week or two ago, and I'm > loving it. It's just about to the point where it makes upgrading the > capacity on the tivo useless (for me at least). I can copy the video to > my PC and either burn it to DVD for permanent archival, or just keep it > around on my drive since I have ample disk space on my PC. If they can > just improve the transfer speed, I'll be happy. Have you used TivoToGo with Linux much? I have got no problem downloading the files (using javahmo or directly), but using them is a pain. I have been stuck with making iso images on my laptop (which doesn't have a DVD burner) which still dual boots XP and transferring the iso images to my desktop machine. I have also found ways to strip out the drm on the windows side and transfer the mpeg files, but some of the Linux video editting tools don't like the files. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons | From cdf123 at cdf123.net Mon Mar 28 14:49:32 2005 From: cdf123 at cdf123.net (Chris Frederick) Date: Mon Mar 28 14:49:44 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Re: [TCLUG] hde, hdf hang at boot with htp370a In-Reply-To: <41B86D74.7090305@cdf123.net> References: <41B86D74.7090305@cdf123.net> Message-ID: <42486DDC.8090700@cdf123.net> Kevin Crowston wrote: > I noticed your posting to the list on 9 Dec. I'm having exactly the same problem and wondered if you ever figured out a solution. I didn't see a followup on the list though... > > Kevin Crowston > Syracuse University Phone: +1 (315) 443-1676 > School of Information Studies Fax: +1 (866) 265-7407 > 348 Hinds Hall Web: http://crowston.syr.edu/ > Syracuse, NY 13244-4100 USA I'm posting this to the list since you at least found the question here, the answer might as well be archived with it. Here's what I did. Download the hptr100 driver from the Highpoint support website: http://www.highpoint-tech.com/BIOS%20+%20Driver/hpt370/Linux/hpt3xx-opensource-v2.0.tgz Warning, this is not a well built tar file, extract it in an empty directory, or be forced to clean up the mess. Read the readme.txt and compile the driver. You'll need support for scsi hard drives in your kernel (included or as a mod). You will also have to disable the hpt34x and hpt366 drivers in the kernel, or add a "hdx=noprobe" to your grub/lilo configs for each of the drives attached to the card. Once everything is done, you can do a "insmod ./hptr100.o" or "insmod ./hptr100.ko" depending on your kernel and the driver will be loaded. Then just mount the drives as scsi drives (sda1 instead of hda1). If you don't know what the drives will be, check /proc/partitions for the available list. I have mine set up to run a script at boot to load the driver and mount the drives. This makes it easy to take out in case I'm doing stuff to my kernel or working on new ones. You probably don't need the KVER lines below, but I'll keep it in just for fun. #!/bin/bash KVER=`grep -o "[^ ]*smp" /proc/version` insmod "/lib/modules/$KVER/extra/hptr100.ko" #insmod /usr/src/r100/hptr100.ko mount /dev/sda1 /archives/dvds1 mount /dev/sdb1 /archives/dvds2 I admit I haven't done anything with RAID setups with this card, but I'm assuming that now that you have access to the block devices (sda, sdb, etc...) you can handle all the RAID/LVM stuff from there and it should be pretty simple. Hope this helps From adam at whee.org Mon Mar 28 14:37:07 2005 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Mar 28 14:51:46 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Tivo Questions In-Reply-To: <20050328135319.A6774@baker.space.umn.edu> References: <4248266F.3000804@visi.com> <20050328111136.A6163@baker.space.umn.edu> <20050328135319.A6774@baker.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Mar 2005, Jim Crumley wrote: > Have you used TivoToGo with Linux much? I have got no problem Not at all, actually. I did see a patch for mplayer that is supposed to let you play the encrypted files, when I get more time I'm going to play with it. No idea if it works or not. > downloading the files (using javahmo or directly), but using them > is a pain. I have been stuck with making iso images on my laptop > (which doesn't have a DVD burner) which still dual boots XP and > transferring the iso images to my desktop machine. I have also > found ways to strip out the drm on the windows side and transfer > the mpeg files, but some of the Linux video editting tools don't > like the files. I've been just transferring them to Win using the TivoDesktop software, then decrypting them and converting them to MPEG as you mentioned. I'm hoping I can get the mplayer solution working - using graphedit is kind of a pain. I'm hoping if mplayer works, I can script something to automatically download, decrypt, and convert the .tivo's to MPEGs. From nate at refried.org Mon Mar 28 15:28:36 2005 From: nate at refried.org (Nate Straz) Date: Mon Mar 28 15:29:44 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Tivo Questions In-Reply-To: <20050328111136.A6163@baker.space.umn.edu> References: <4248266F.3000804@visi.com> <20050328111136.A6163@baker.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20050328212836.GA25532@refried.org> On Mon, Mar 28, 2005 at 11:11:36AM -0600, Jim Crumley wrote: > On Mon, Mar 28, 2005 at 09:44:47AM -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > My wife won a Tivo that can record 40 hours of TV, my first reaction was > > "So who wants to watch TV". > > I like books, researching, and learning, without cable there is not much > > of anything worth staring at. > > > > I also found that I would have to sign up for a service that would cost > > $13 every month or $300 for a life time. > > LOLROF I can't imagine why I would pay either price! > > I am a long time TiVo owner and I, like Adam, suggest you give it > a try. As am I. I bought mine in 2000 and wouldn't want to live without one. You'll have a hard time finding people who own TiVos that don't like them. Please give it a try for a few months. If you don't like it, you should be able to sell it quite easily. When you activate it enter "tivo@refried.org" as your referral. Nate From smac at visi.com Mon Mar 28 17:45:07 2005 From: smac at visi.com (smac@visi.com) Date: Mon Mar 28 17:45:46 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Tivo Questions In-Reply-To: <20050328212836.GA25532@refried.org> References: <4248266F.3000804@visi.com> <20050328111136.A6163@baker.space.umn.edu> <20050328212836.GA25532@refried.org> Message-ID: <1112053507.42489703caa14@my.visi.com> Would that be a ;oD We don't have a lot of funds for this sort of thing. It's sort of a weird thing to sell something and require a subscription to a service to use it. I'm not much for this sort of marketting sort of like snake oil sellers. I don't like TV myself I feel TV is a waste of time. I guess for a TV person research on the topic of the day would be no fun. Sam. Quoting Nate Straz : > On Mon, Mar 28, 2005 at 11:11:36AM -0600, Jim Crumley wrote: > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2005 at 09:44:47AM -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > My wife won a Tivo that can record 40 hours of TV, my first reaction was > > > "So who wants to watch TV". > > > I like books, researching, and learning, without cable there is not much > > > of anything worth staring at. > > > > > > I also found that I would have to sign up for a service that would cost > > > $13 every month or $300 for a life time. > > > LOLROF I can't imagine why I would pay either price! > > > > I am a long time TiVo owner and I, like Adam, suggest you give it > > a try. > > As am I. I bought mine in 2000 and wouldn't want to live without one. > You'll have a hard time finding people who own TiVos that don't like > them. Please give it a try for a few months. If you don't like it, you > should be able to sell it quite easily. > > When you activate it enter "tivo@refried.org" as your referral. > > Nate > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From dan at dandrake.org Mon Mar 28 19:34:46 2005 From: dan at dandrake.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Mar 28 19:35:47 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] what did I do to my Firefox window? Message-ID: <20050329013445.GA8985@dandrake.org> Firefox has acquired a large, blank area at the bottom of the window: http://www.math.umn.edu/~drake/images/Screenshot.png I was starting Firefox the other day, and was typing in a terminal. A couple keystrokes from the terminal were captured by the newly-started Firefox, and it got...that way. (The stuff at the top of the window is all as I've configured it. No problems there.) Any ideas on how to fix this? I'd rather not delete my .mozilla/firefox directory and start over, although that would (hopefully) fix it. Thanks, Dan -- Ceci n'est pas une .signature. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050328/b91e085b/attachment-0001.pgp From rick at eworld3.net Mon Mar 28 14:03:41 2005 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Mar 28 20:01:46 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] what did I do to my Firefox window? In-Reply-To: <20050329013445.GA8985@dandrake.org> References: <20050329013445.GA8985@dandrake.org> Message-ID: <4248631D.9050803@eworld3.net> Dan, I recently borked my firefox with an "extension" (in this case that meant EXtra TENSION). Anyway I moved my .mozilla/firefox dir to a new name and re-installed. It was pretty easy to determine which files to copy from the "old" dir to the new one. My point is that if you will be able to recover most or all of your stuff. Dan Drake wrote: > Firefox has acquired a large, blank area at the bottom of the window: > > http://www.math.umn.edu/~drake/images/Screenshot.png > > I was starting Firefox the other day, and was typing in a terminal. A > couple keystrokes from the terminal were captured by the newly-started > Firefox, and it got...that way. > > (The stuff at the top of the window is all as I've configured it. No > problems there.) > > Any ideas on how to fix this? I'd rather not delete my .mozilla/firefox > directory and start over, although that would (hopefully) fix it. > > Thanks, > > Dan -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff From seg at haxxed.com Mon Mar 28 22:56:12 2005 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Mar 28 22:57:48 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Tivo Questions In-Reply-To: <4248266F.3000804@visi.com> References: <4248266F.3000804@visi.com> Message-ID: <1112072173.21144.15.camel@bigtime.booze> > Question: > Has anyone been able to use this thing without the service? > Can I sign up and quit the service but still use the device? > Can the device be hacked so it can be used like a VCR for recording > (wife likes 24)? > or > Do I put it up for sale? Use MythTV instead? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050328/5eb2b01e/attachment.pgp From jack at jacku.com Mon Mar 28 23:38:48 2005 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Mar 28 23:31:48 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] what did I do to my Firefox window? In-Reply-To: <20050329013445.GA8985@dandrake.org> References: <20050329013445.GA8985@dandrake.org> Message-ID: <200503282338.48012.jack@jacku.com> What extensions if any do you have installed? Is it possible you activated one of those and it is causing the space below the status bar? Also have you tried turning off the status bar to see if it related to that? Just some thoughts. Good Luck! Jack On Monday 28 March 2005 07:34 pm, Dan Drake wrote: > Firefox has acquired a large, blank area at the bottom of the window: > > http://www.math.umn.edu/~drake/images/Screenshot.png > > I was starting Firefox the other day, and was typing in a terminal. A > couple keystrokes from the terminal were captured by the newly-started > Firefox, and it got...that way. > > (The stuff at the top of the window is all as I've configured it. No > problems there.) > > Any ideas on how to fix this? I'd rather not delete my .mozilla/firefox > directory and start over, although that would (hopefully) fix it. > > Thanks, > > Dan -- Jack Ungerleider The Ungerleider Group jack@jacku.com http://www.jacku.com From adam at whee.org Tue Mar 29 07:20:00 2005 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Tue Mar 29 07:35:53 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Tivo Questions In-Reply-To: <1112053507.42489703caa14@my.visi.com> References: <4248266F.3000804@visi.com> <20050328111136.A6163@baker.space.umn.edu> <20050328212836.GA25532@refried.org> <1112053507.42489703caa14@my.visi.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 smac@visi.com wrote: > Would that be a ;oD > > We don't have a lot of funds for this sort of thing. It's sort of a weird thing > to sell something and require a subscription to a service to use it. I'm not > much for this sort of marketting sort of like snake oil sellers. Come on Sam, it runs Linux...you know you want it :) They're doing it this way so they don't have to charge like $600 for the unit, which far less people would be inclined to buy. This is a business model that many companies are trying to follow, not just Tivo. King Gillette pioneered it when he more or less gave away a razor and then sold disposable blades at a considerable profit (ever get a Mach-3 in the mail for free? I get about 1 every six months). The inkjet printer business is the same, as is a lot of commercial software. Heck, even sweet, lovable Pez is running the same scam! Even Redhat is an example - give away the product, and make your money on recurring support costs. Same with MySQL and recently even Snort has implemented a fee-based subscription to it's rule base. No one wants to sell a product anymore. Everyone wants the recurring revenue stream. For shareholders, a subscriber is worth a lot more than a single-unit purchase. > I don't like TV myself I feel TV is a waste of time. I guess for a TV person > research on the topic of the day would be no fun. Maybe you'd change your mind if you watched some women's billiards? :) So, want me to make an offer on that 40-hour unit? I see new ones on Ebay going from $35 - $55. From tclug at freakzilla.com Tue Mar 29 08:00:14 2005 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Tue Mar 29 08:01:53 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Tivo Questions In-Reply-To: References: <4248266F.3000804@visi.com> <20050328111136.A6163@baker.space.umn.edu> <20050328212836.GA25532@refried.org> <1112053507.42489703caa14@my.visi.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Mar 2005, Adam Maloney wrote: > Maybe you'd change your mind if you watched some women's billiards? :) Is Allison Fisher still playing??? /haven't watched Snooker in since moving to the US -Yaron -- From adam at whee.org Tue Mar 29 08:07:30 2005 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Tue Mar 29 08:21:54 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Tivo Questions In-Reply-To: References: <4248266F.3000804@visi.com> <20050328111136.A6163@baker.space.umn.edu> <20050328212836.GA25532@refried.org> <1112053507.42489703caa14@my.visi.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Mar 2005, Yaron wrote: > On Tue, 29 Mar 2005, Adam Maloney wrote: > >> Maybe you'd change your mind if you watched some women's billiards? :) > > Is Allison Fisher still playing??? > > /haven't watched Snooker in since moving to the US Yes, but all of her TV appearances are 9-ball. I assume she still plays snooker, but nothing that makes it onto American TV. I wish it did. Accu-stats has 3-cushion videos for sale (I can run of 4 points now!), but no snooker :( Fisher and Karen Corr have been flip-flopping 1st and 2nd place for years in the WPBA. The final match in all of the events are almost always between those two. In what I think was the last WPBA sanctioned match of 2004, Corr was in 1st only by 30 points. I have a lot of Loree Jon Jones paraphenelia (autographed cue and glossy), but only a Fisher poster. I'm thinking about going down to IL in Aug when the tour is playing there and (hopefully) meeting some of them. From nate at refried.org Tue Mar 29 08:21:12 2005 From: nate at refried.org (Nate Straz) Date: Tue Mar 29 08:22:03 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Tivo Questions In-Reply-To: <1112053507.42489703caa14@my.visi.com> References: <4248266F.3000804@visi.com> <20050328111136.A6163@baker.space.umn.edu> <20050328212836.GA25532@refried.org> <1112053507.42489703caa14@my.visi.com> Message-ID: <20050329142112.GA5776@refried.org> On Mon, Mar 28, 2005 at 05:45:07PM -0600, smac@visi.com wrote: > Would that be a ;oD Yes it would. :) > We don't have a lot of funds for this sort of thing. It's sort of a > weird thing to sell something and require a subscription to a service > to use it. I'm not much for this sort of marketting sort of like snake > oil sellers. As Adam said, there are lots of companies following this model. Look at all of the MMORPGs for a direct example. > I don't like TV myself I feel TV is a waste of time. I guess for a TV person > research on the topic of the day would be no fun. If your family really doesn't use the TV much, don't bother with it. The TiVo has changed the way I watch TV. Now I never miss the nightly news because it's always there when I get home. I can record movies and educational shows any time of day with a few button presses and watch them when I feel like it. If the phone rings, I pause what I'm watching, answer the phone, hang up on the telemarketter, and I don't miss anything. You don't have to do anything with the TiVo, but some rabid fans might try to get you to change your mind. :) Nate Rabid Tivotee From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Tue Mar 29 08:45:49 2005 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Tue Mar 29 08:47:56 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Tivo Questions In-Reply-To: References: <4248266F.3000804@visi.com> <20050328111136.A6163@baker.space.umn.edu> <20050328135319.A6774@baker.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20050329084549.A9810@baker.space.umn.edu> On Mon, Mar 28, 2005 at 02:37:07PM -0600, Adam Maloney wrote: > On Mon, 28 Mar 2005, Jim Crumley wrote: > > >Have you used TivoToGo with Linux much? I have got no problem > > Not at all, actually. I did see a patch for mplayer that is supposed to > let you play the encrypted files, when I get more time I'm going to play > with it. No idea if it works or not. As far as I can tell that patch deals only with .ty files that you grab directly off of a (hacked) TiVo, not the slightly differently encrypted .TiVo ones that TiVoToGo gives you. From what I have read, the improtant parts of that patch were integrated into mainline mplayer. That might help explain why mplayer can almost play .TiVo files - it gets roughly half of the picture, though no audio when I try it. It looks like someone who knew what they were doing could probably fix the rest of pretty easily. Unfortunately, I am clueless in the audio/video area myself. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons | From dmillaway at holdingford.k12.mn.us Tue Mar 29 14:05:12 2005 From: dmillaway at holdingford.k12.mn.us (Dana Millaway) Date: Tue Mar 29 14:07:57 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Tivo Questions In-Reply-To: <20050329142112.GA5776@refried.org> Message-ID: <00a101c5349a$a4aa2870$c560000a@tcat> -----Original Message----- From: Nate Straz Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 8:21 AM On Mon, Mar 28, 2005 at 05:45:07PM -0600, smac@visi.com wrote: > Would that be a ;oD Yes it would. :) You don't have to do anything with the TiVo, but some rabid fans might try to get you to change your mind. :) Nate Rabid Tivotee -------------------- I guess this makes me a Shameless Rabid TIVOtee. We have 3 - the original 30 hour with lifetime subscription (that I fought against tooth and nail until I stayed home on maternity leave and watched every episode of M*A*S*H), as well as 40 hour one for the kids' movies and educational programming and a 70 hour one for my husband's movie habit. I love watching my shows when I have time and without commercials and catching the 6 am weather when I get up at 6:15! I find myself wishing my car radio had TIVO so I could replay NPR stories that I catch in the middle. Sell it quick or you too will be corrupted! LOL. Dana A little learning is a dangerous thing, but only to the person who mistakes it for a lot. From mcnixon at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 14:27:22 2005 From: mcnixon at gmail.com (Mike Nixon) Date: Tue Mar 29 14:27:57 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Tivo Questions In-Reply-To: <00a101c5349a$a4aa2870$c560000a@tcat> References: <20050329142112.GA5776@refried.org> <00a101c5349a$a4aa2870$c560000a@tcat> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:05:12 -0600, Dana Millaway wrote: > I find myself wishing > my car radio had TIVO so I could replay NPR stories that I catch in the > middle. > Replay Radio would be cool... http://www.radioyourway.com/ But I'm not sure that I want to pay that kind of money. Mike From andyzib at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 15:58:38 2005 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Tue Mar 29 15:59:58 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Radio Time Shifting (Was: OT: Tivo Questions) Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:27:22 -0600, Mike Nixon wrote: > On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:05:12 -0600, Dana Millaway > wrote: > > I find myself wishing > > my car radio had TIVO so I could replay NPR stories that I catch in the > > middle. > > > > Replay Radio would be cool... http://www.radioyourway.com/ > But I'm not sure that I want to pay that kind of money. > > Mike Before my Linux box caught fire (http://andy.zibnet.us/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album10) I was working on setting up something that would tune my USB radio tuner (D-Link DSP R100 http://support.dlink.com/products/view.asp?productid=DSB%2DR100) and record automatically. I was just going to setup a bunch of cron jobs to tune and record, then encode to mp3 for transfer to my MuVo player. I was just going to use cron for the timing. cron is easier than setting a VCR right? :) I planned on using fmtools (http://www.exploits.org/v4l/fmtools.html) to tune on command, and one utility or another to record from the line in jack. Never got to setting it all up do to the meltdown, but the tools you need are out there. You don't need the fancy fm tuners and all that, just tune a standard radio in and record at the right time. Limited to one frequency that way, but is there anything besides MPR worth listening to? Search the lug archives for "FM Radio Tuner Tricks" and you should come up with the previous discussion. -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. From scotjenkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 19:34:48 2005 From: scotjenkins at gmail.com (Scot Jenkins) Date: Tue Mar 29 19:36:00 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Debian problem: apt-get not working Message-ID: Debian experts: I have 2 systems running Debian stable. Today I received an email about security updates for telnet and mc. As I normally do, I ran: apt-get update apt-get upgrade -s One system showed the updated packages for telnet and mc, and updates properly when I run "apt-get upgrade". The other system did not. Both systems have the same /etc/apt/sources.list file. On the broken system, I tried deleting everything in /var/lib/apt/lists and then running "apt-get update; apt-get upgrade -s" again. It still does not show the updates for telnet and mc. Both systems had the same versions of telnet and mc installed. Any ideas on why the one systems doesn't show the updates? Thanks, Scot From scotjenkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 20:46:34 2005 From: scotjenkins at gmail.com (Scot Jenkins) Date: Tue Mar 29 20:48:00 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Debian problem: apt-get not working Message-ID: Debian experts: I have 2 systems running Debian stable. Today I received an email about security updates for telnet and mc. As I normally do, I ran: apt-get update apt-get upgrade -s One system showed the updated packages for telnet and mc, and updates properly when I run "apt-get upgrade". The other system did not. Both systems have the same /etc/apt/sources.list file. On the broken system, I tried deleting everything in /var/lib/apt/lists and then running "apt-get update; apt-get upgrade -s" again. It still does not show the updates for telnet and mc. Both systems had the same versions of telnet and mc installed. Any ideas on why the one systems doesn't show the updates? Thanks, Scot From lists at chuckhays.net Tue Mar 29 21:32:23 2005 From: lists at chuckhays.net (Chuck Hays) Date: Tue Mar 29 21:34:01 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Pay for wireless access system Message-ID: <1112153543.1961.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello everyone, I am hoping that someone has some information that might help me with this task. We are looking to set up pay wireless access at some marinas up near Bayfield Wisconsin. The current system they have is simply DSL with WAP/Antenna/lightning protection from hyperlinktech.com. This serves them well, but is inconvenient to control access to, especially for boaters who are transient. We would like to do this at several marinas in the area. The motive is not profit, but rather because most people have liked our set up at our marina, and would like to see it in other marinas. The pay-for is mostly to cover costs. Does anyone have any experience or information about various systems that can be used to accept CC payments, control access, that sort of thing? Basically what you find in airports, hotels, etc... I tried searching google, but did not have much luck sorting through the garbage. Thanks in advance if anyone can help. -Chuck Hays lists@chuckhays.net From sulrich at botwerks.org Tue Mar 29 22:40:46 2005 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue Mar 29 22:42:01 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Pay for wireless access system In-Reply-To: <1112153543.1961.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1112153543.1961.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9baba6c84f0b1eb968720742288a44c5@botwerks.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 there are several captive portal systems available on the market. if you're looking for something with a more open interface, you might check out the captive portal from the folks over at nocat.net. i'm not sure about the CC payment elements, but that's pretty straightforward to handle when you have the network and subscriber control elements in place. On Mar 29, 2005, at 9:32 PM, Chuck Hays wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I am hoping that someone has some information that might help me with > this task. > > We are looking to set up pay wireless access at some marinas up near > Bayfield Wisconsin. The current system they have is simply DSL with > WAP/Antenna/lightning protection from hyperlinktech.com. This serves > them well, but is inconvenient to control access to, especially for > boaters who are transient. We would like to do this at several marinas > in the area. The motive is not profit, but rather because most people > have liked our set up at our marina, and would like to see it in other > marinas. The pay-for is mostly to cover costs. > > Does anyone have any experience or information about various systems > that can be used to accept CC payments, control access, that sort of > thing? Basically what you find in airports, hotels, etc... I tried > searching google, but did not have much luck sorting through the > garbage. > > Thanks in advance if anyone can help. {snipped - misc. signatures} - -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) iD8DBQFCSi3RT9QHyRM7+vwRAjdZAKC9kuME3r00n/qBSJCKw3BRPwexJgCg/Ez1 DJzN75zezZeuRvT9PXgsBzk= =wpKK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From smac at visi.com Wed Mar 30 07:08:14 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Wed Mar 30 07:14:05 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Pay for wireless access system In-Reply-To: <1112153543.1961.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1112153543.1961.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <424AA4BE.9020800@visi.com> The city of Chaska has a wireless system but I don't know if they have CC type system. www.chaska.net Sam. Chuck Hays wrote: >Hello everyone, > >I am hoping that someone has some information that might help me with >this task. > >We are looking to set up pay wireless access at some marinas up near >Bayfield Wisconsin. The current system they have is simply DSL with >WAP/Antenna/lightning protection from hyperlinktech.com. This serves >them well, but is inconvenient to control access to, especially for >boaters who are transient. We would like to do this at several marinas >in the area. The motive is not profit, but rather because most people >have liked our set up at our marina, and would like to see it in other >marinas. The pay-for is mostly to cover costs. > >Does anyone have any experience or information about various systems >that can be used to accept CC payments, control access, that sort of >thing? Basically what you find in airports, hotels, etc... I tried >searching google, but did not have much luck sorting through the >garbage. > >Thanks in advance if anyone can help. > >-Chuck Hays >lists@chuckhays.net > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From shanson at cruiskeen.com Wed Mar 30 08:28:31 2005 From: shanson at cruiskeen.com (Steve Hanson) Date: Wed Mar 30 08:30:07 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Pay for wireless access system In-Reply-To: <9baba6c84f0b1eb968720742288a44c5@botwerks.org> References: <1112153543.1961.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9baba6c84f0b1eb968720742288a44c5@botwerks.org> Message-ID: <424AB78F.1090006@cruiskeen.com> steve ulrich wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > there are several captive portal systems available on the market. if > you're looking for something with a more open interface, you might check > out the captive portal from the folks over at nocat.net. i'm not sure > about the CC payment elements, but that's pretty straightforward to > handle when you have the network and subscriber control elements in place. > Yes, I know that nocat has had some development work on it to do things like accept PayPal. You'll probably need to browse through the mailing list archives to find it though. I don't think it's supported in the mainline code. > From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Mar 30 08:18:36 2005 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Wed Mar 30 08:35:40 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Debian problem: apt-get not working In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050330141836.GA19638@wookimus.net> Do a ``dpkg -l PACKAGE`` to see what the version is that's installed. Also make certain that you have disk space with ``df``. If /var is starting to look full, do an ``apt-get clean`` to remove packages from the apt cache. You can also increase the verbosity of installs through environment variables for dpkg (see the manpage). Lastly, you can manually download the packages from http://security.debian.org. Lastly, but perhaps something you should also consider, is that your machine may already be compromised... Maybe. You should install a Host Intrusion Detection System (HIDS) such as AIDE, Samhain, or Tripwire, which you update with EVERY package installation. I recall there being a way to create md5sum on installed files for those packages that don't have them (which are very few, now a days). Package: debsums Priority: optional Section: admin Installed-Size: 64 Maintainer: Brendan O'Dea Architecture: all Version: 2.0.16 Depends: perl (>= 5.8.0-3), debconf (>= 0.5) | debconf-2.0 Filename: pool/main/d/debsums/debsums_2.0.16_all.deb Size: 21046 MD5sum: 051b67e8283720012d64c3e141d11182 Description: Verify installed package files against MD5 checksums. debsums can verify the integrity of installed package files against MD5 checksums installed by the package, or generated from a .deb archive. I remember making a shell script to check md5sums once. Something like:: #!/bin/sh cat << EOWARNING >&2 This script it dedicated to the Public Domain. It is untested and provides NO WARRANTY. Checking md5sums of installed packages. Note that not all packages have md5sums. This also does not replace a true HIDS that tracks all or most files on your filesystems. It only idicates the integrity of the package itself. EOWARNING # Change to the root directory cd / # Get a list of installed packages for pf in `find /var/lib/dpkg/info/ -type f|cut -f1 -d.|sort -u`; do p=`basename $pf` if [ ! -f ${pf}.md5sums ] ; then echo "$p: No md5sums file for package" >&2 continue fi echo "$p: Checking md5sums" >&2 md5sum -c ${pf}.md5sums done ### End Of File The script obviously has shortcomings, such as this: capplets-data: Checking md5sums cdrecord: Checking md5sums md5sum: MD5 check failed for 'etc/default/cdrecord' It notes changes to config files, which we expect to change anyway. The debsums package may be better at this. Good luck. -- Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050330/c2c53798/attachment.pgp From adam at whee.org Wed Mar 30 08:28:31 2005 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Wed Mar 30 08:44:07 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Tivo Questions In-Reply-To: <20050328111136.A6163@baker.space.umn.edu> References: <4248266F.3000804@visi.com> <20050328111136.A6163@baker.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Mar 2005, Jim Crumley wrote: > listings, etc. from your TV. Take a look at > javahmo.sourceforge.net (or its beta-level successor > galleon.sourceforge.net) , which a leading third-party app for > TiVo. >From javahmo.sourceforge.net: ... "View NNTP images from newsgroups." So. Very. Wrong. Well, my night's booked. This looks really slick though. From andyzib at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 10:02:58 2005 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Wed Mar 30 10:04:08 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Debian problem: apt-get not working In-Reply-To: <20050330141836.GA19638@wookimus.net> References: <20050330141836.GA19638@wookimus.net> Message-ID: The debian mirrors are in a DNS round robin...if you're using http.us.debian.org it's possible one box got updates from a server that had been synced, and the other box from a server that hasn't finished syncing. -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. From meierjo at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 14:12:08 2005 From: meierjo at gmail.com (MaryJaneRottenCrotch) Date: Wed Mar 30 14:14:10 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Networking Question: Update to domain affect subdomain? Message-ID: If I have a subdomain called: chow.hound.com which points to valid IP address, say serverA and update the IP address that www.hound.com and hound.com point to (say from serverB to serverC), would it affect traffic to chow.hound.com? >From what I know, the subdomain chow.hound.com should not be affected by changes to the hound.com or www.hound.com records..... maybe I'm missing something? From adam at whee.org Wed Mar 30 14:12:13 2005 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Wed Mar 30 14:28:09 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Networking Question: Update to domain affect subdomain? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, MaryJaneRottenCrotch wrote: > If I have a subdomain called: > > chow.hound.com > > which points to valid IP address, say serverA > > and update the IP address that www.hound.com and hound.com point to > (say from serverB to serverC), would it affect traffic to > chow.hound.com? No, assuming chow is an A record pointing to the IP address, and not a CNAME record pointing to a different hostname/subdomain. That's also assuming that chow is actually setup and defined, and there's no wildcard record for *.hound.com that would cause chow and anything else not explicitly defined to point to wherever the wildcard points. Basically, if you have: hound.com IN A ServerB.ip.address www.hound.com IN A ServerC.ip.address chow.hound.com IN A ServerA.ip.address Then no, changing either of the other two wouldn't affect chow. From ethan at audio-crusade.com Mon Mar 28 08:25:33 2005 From: ethan at audio-crusade.com (ethan@audio-crusade.com) Date: Wed Mar 30 18:59:43 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Re: [Dvdrtools-users] Does Linux support external USB DVD writers? In-Reply-To: <20050328100340.GD10682@momentum.poptix.net> References: <20050326012011.12508.qmail@web61301.mail.yahoo.com> <2424.67.176.44.28.1111852007.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> <20050328100340.GD10682@momentum.poptix.net> Message-ID: <1076.67.176.44.28.1112019933.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Thanks but I don't run X Windows. -e >> For some >> reason I haven't followed up on +R format wasn't recognized. > > You should look into K3B, http://www.k3b.org/ > From ben at nerp.net Tue Mar 29 17:07:59 2005 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Wed Mar 30 18:59:53 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Install-fest and Lan-party Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The University of Minnesota ACM and IEEE Student Groups are hosting an install-fest and lan-party. IBM has generously sponsored the entire event, so admission is FREE! There will also be a limited supply of free food. IBM will be giving a presentation on Linux and their BlueGene system. When: Sunday, April 10th 2005: 12:30 - 23:00 Where: Coffman Memorial Union: The Whole http://onestop.umn.edu/Maps/CMU/index.html Schedule: 12:30 to 14:30 - IBM Linux and BlueGene 14:30 to 15:30 - Move in PCs and Lunch 15:30 to 23:00 - Install Linux and Have some fun. URLs: http://acm.cs.umn.edu/ http://www.ieee.umn.edu/ http://www.ibm.com/linux/ - -ben "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCSd/SfYg2asD844oRAkgOAKCs9arhZCS9tdHKrAdqF7hpLlUPRACfZXpJ AOWwS9kaVsWgGBFqzN6KT7Q= =U+rq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From MPatchen at chaskamn.com Wed Mar 30 09:55:26 2005 From: MPatchen at chaskamn.com (Mike Patchen) Date: Wed Mar 30 18:59:58 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Pay for wireless access system Message-ID: Currently, no there is no CC system in place. All billing is handled through the utility bills. The system we are using - Pronto (www.prontonetworks.com) - does have the ability to handle many different methods of billing including credit cards. If you want my input on Pronto, contact me off list and I will provide more details and personal thoughts. Mike Patchen Network Analyst City Of Chaska 952-227-7562 mpatchen@chaskamn.com >>> Sam MacDonald 3/30/2005 7:08:14 AM >>> The city of Chaska has a wireless system but I don't know if they have CC type system. www.chaska.net Sam. Chuck Hays wrote: >Hello everyone, > >I am hoping that someone has some information that might help me with >this task. > >We are looking to set up pay wireless access at some marinas up near >Bayfield Wisconsin. The current system they have is simply DSL with >WAP/Antenna/lightning protection from hyperlinktech.com. This serves >them well, but is inconvenient to control access to, especially for >boaters who are transient. We would like to do this at several marinas >in the area. The motive is not profit, but rather because most people >have liked our set up at our marina, and would like to see it in other >marinas. The pay-for is mostly to cover costs. > >Does anyone have any experience or information about various systems >that can be used to accept CC payments, control access, that sort of >thing? Basically what you find in airports, hotels, etc... I tried >searching google, but did not have much luck sorting through the >garbage. > >Thanks in advance if anyone can help. > >-Chuck Hays >lists@chuckhays.net > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list@mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From markdeb.browne at comcast.net Wed Mar 30 21:01:12 2005 From: markdeb.browne at comcast.net (Mark Browne) Date: Wed Mar 30 21:02:13 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Stupid newbie question Message-ID: When I set up my linux boxen I have been leaving the domain name as localhost. My ISP is Comcast.net and I don't have my own domain name to plug in. I know that this is sort of retarded, but I have no clue about the correct thing to do here. If it makes any difference, I want to network (samba?) my Mandrake-Sun Sparc, Mandrake Intel, OS X Mac, AMD-64 XP, and Intel XP boxen together later. A pointer to a good how-to would be nice. Mark Browne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050330/bbda84e9/attachment.htm From admin at lctn.org Wed Mar 30 21:51:35 2005 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Wed Mar 30 21:52:14 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] -bash: java: command not found Message-ID: <60739.209.176.212.10.1112241095.squirrel@209.176.212.10> I am trying to install a program on a fedora core 2 box. The following is an error I receive after running the java command. [root@mail fileIndexer]# java -Xmx256m -jar FileIndexer-1.1.4.jar -bash: java: command not found Any ideas where I should look to resolve this? From tanner at real-time.com Wed Mar 30 22:30:54 2005 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Wed Mar 30 22:32:14 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Torvalds advocates daily kernel performance tests - ZDNet UK News Message-ID: <200503302230.55499@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com> http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/linuxunix/0,39020390,39193271,00.htm So, I got a bunch of idle boxes sitting around. It's cool that Linus says "test more". What I would have liked to read was "use this code" to "test more". Anyone want to comment on how best to setup a stress-test lab -and- report the results back to the kernel devs? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 From florin at iucha.net Wed Mar 30 22:51:36 2005 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Wed Mar 30 22:52:15 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Torvalds advocates daily kernel performance tests - ZDNet UK News In-Reply-To: <200503302230.55499@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com> References: <200503302230.55499@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20050331045136.GJ9597@iucha.net> On Wed, Mar 30, 2005 at 10:30:54PM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: > Anyone want to comment on how best to setup a stress-test lab -and- report the > results back to the kernel devs? The most interesting test for them would be your particular load, "your itch." OSDL has huge machines with which to generate synthetic loads (the particular machine that sparked the discussion that led to the quote in the article has "4-way SMP, 1.6 GHz Intel itanium2, 64GB memory, 450 73GB 15k-rpm disks" [1]. Hard to beat that with "spare" machines. So, run the favorite load: spam checking the TCLUG postings, generating the indexed web mail archive, kernel compiles with your particular configuration, stress-test your web application... Cheers, florin 1: http://www.ussg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0503.3/1098.html -- Don't question authority: they don't know either! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050330/2cb46ad9/attachment-0001.pgp From markdeb.browne at comcast.net Wed Mar 30 23:03:04 2005 From: markdeb.browne at comcast.net (Mark Browne) Date: Wed Mar 30 23:04:15 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Stupid newbie question In-Reply-To: <424B812A.4020202@visi.com> Message-ID: Bob, Yes, mandrake on sparc! See: http://www.ultralinux.org/faq.html Mandrake has worked better than redhat (for me) and I have stuck with it since. An example: my "new" SCSI drives came from a RAID array. Redhat and Suse curled up and died with the "unknown" format on the drives. Mandrake just asked if I wanted to reformat and trundled on. As far as I am concerned, most of a given distro revolves around the installer and packaged applications. The Mandrake installer has consistently dealt with the weird hardware I have laying around better than other distros, on all my boxen. I agree that localhost is special. Hostname gives me: Localhost.localdomain What brought all this on is that I tire of my prompt saying: [markb@localhost markb]$ I guess that I should have asked about the "localdomain" part. Or is this special too? Should I be setting my domain to something if I don't have one? Somehow, it does not seem that using "Comcast.net" is the right thing. Mark Browne -----Original Message----- From: Bob Hartmann [mailto:bhartm@visi.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 10:49 PM To: Mark Browne Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Stupid newbie question Hey Mark, localhost is not the domain name. localhost is a builtin thing and should not be altered, like 127.0.0.1. It's the host, meaning THIS DEVICE, or THIS NODE. Try "hostname" and "info hostname" For adding other nodes as names to Linux, Unix or BSD, it's in /etc/hosts, just like the hosts file on Windows. (I don't remember where that is) Check out http://tldp.org/LDP/nag/node62.html. Look at the links at the top of the page! 127.0.0.1 localhost 127.0.0.1 hitshed 10.0.0.44 thatotherthing cat /etc/nsswitch.conf hosts: files dns Did I hear you right? Mandrake on Sparc? Mark Browne wrote: > When I set up my linux boxen I have been leaving the domain name as > localhost. My ISP is Comcast.net and I don't have my own domain name > to plug in. > > I know that this is sort of retarded, but I have no clue about the > correct thing to do here. > > If it makes any difference, I want to network (samba?) my Mandrake-Sun > Sparc, Mandrake Intel, OS X Mac, AMD-64 XP, and Intel XP boxen > together later. > > A pointer to a good how-to would be nice. > > Mark Browne > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From bhartm at visi.com Thu Mar 31 00:23:07 2005 From: bhartm at visi.com (Bob Hartmann) Date: Thu Mar 31 00:18:15 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Stupid newbie question In-Reply-To: <20050331050702.9DC7449E7@bodb.mc.mpls.visi.com> References: <20050331050702.9DC7449E7@bodb.mc.mpls.visi.com> Message-ID: <424B974B.2000508@visi.com> No shit? What kind of SPARC have you got? Mark, IMO, you're asking the right question. localdomain could be renamed just for your own peace of mind and then simple one name communication between boxes, For me, on my network, I call stuff dinkus.local, hitshed.local, etc. A book I have suggests naming the local domain .bogus just to put a finer point on it. Without a local DNS server I have to add all these names to my /etc/hosts, of course. My Qworst router supplies DHCP for one or more of these wierdos, though. Mark Browne wrote: >Bob, >Yes, mandrake on sparc! >See: >http://www.ultralinux.org/faq.html >Mandrake has worked better than redhat (for me) and I have stuck with it >since. An example: my "new" SCSI drives came from a RAID array. Redhat and >Suse curled up and died with the "unknown" format on the drives. Mandrake >just asked if I wanted to reformat and trundled on. As far as I am >concerned, most of a given distro revolves around the installer and packaged >applications. The Mandrake installer has consistently dealt with the weird >hardware I have laying around better than other distros, on all my boxen. > >I agree that localhost is special. >Hostname gives me: >Localhost.localdomain > >What brought all this on is that I tire of my prompt saying: >[markb@localhost markb]$ >I guess that I should have asked about the "localdomain" part. >Or is this special too? > >Should I be setting my domain to something if I don't have one? >Somehow, it does not seem that using "Comcast.net" is the right thing. > >Mark Browne > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Bob Hartmann [mailto:bhartm@visi.com] >Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 10:49 PM >To: Mark Browne >Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Stupid newbie question > > >Hey Mark, >localhost is not the domain name. localhost is a builtin thing and >should not be altered, like 127.0.0.1. It's the host, meaning THIS >DEVICE, or THIS NODE. >Try "hostname" and "info hostname" >For adding other nodes as names to Linux, Unix or BSD, it's in >/etc/hosts, just like the hosts file on Windows. (I don't remember where >that is) Check out http://tldp.org/LDP/nag/node62.html. Look at the >links at the top of the page! > > >127.0.0.1 localhost >127.0.0.1 hitshed >10.0.0.44 thatotherthing > >cat /etc/nsswitch.conf >hosts: files dns > >Did I hear you right? Mandrake on Sparc? > > >Mark Browne wrote: > > > >>When I set up my linux boxen I have been leaving the domain name as >>localhost. My ISP is Comcast.net and I don't have my own domain name >>to plug in. >> >>I know that this is sort of retarded, but I have no clue about the >>correct thing to do here. >> >>If it makes any difference, I want to network (samba?) my Mandrake-Sun >>Sparc, Mandrake Intel, OS X Mac, AMD-64 XP, and Intel XP boxen >>together later. >> >>A pointer to a good how-to would be nice. >> >>Mark Browne >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> > > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From smac at visi.com Thu Mar 31 00:53:34 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Thu Mar 31 00:54:16 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Stupid newbie question In-Reply-To: <20050331050645.E8DD74A38@bran.mc.mpls.visi.com> References: <20050331050645.E8DD74A38@bran.mc.mpls.visi.com> Message-ID: <424B9E6E.6040600@visi.com> localhost.localdomain I have a registered domain name called screechowl.org, if I name one of my computers impala and another jackrabbit It should look like impala.screechowl.org and jackrabbit.screechowl.org if they all were on the Internet. I have all my computers behind a router and use port forwarding for my website and other services. I only have 1 IP address on the Internet (in DNS) that address is assigned to the router. In other words all http traffic for www.screechowl.org goes to the router that has the IP address (in DNS) for screechowl.org assigned to it. The router is exposed to the Internet not my computer. I tell the router to forward port 80 requests to an internal IP address assigned to a computer, like 192.168.0.20 that computer has the web server in it. It's a just 2 names thats all, as long as it is inside your network. For all it matters I could call my domain inside "coffee" and computers "cup" and "pot" I would have cup.coffee and pot.coffee no one would know because of the router. I still have screechowl.org for my web site, the router would send port 80 http requests to pot.coffee who's internal IP address is 192.168.0.20. Just remember if you have to explain the name of your inside domain to someone it should be well... socially acceptable ;-) Now if I can get the domain to brew me a cup of hot coffee... I wonder if I could find a USP coffee pot and use cron... Sam. Mark Browne wrote: >Bob, >Yes, mandrake on sparc! >See: >http://www.ultralinux.org/faq.html >Mandrake has worked better than redhat (for me) and I have stuck with it >since. An example: my "new" SCSI drives came from a RAID array. Redhat and >Suse curled up and died with the "unknown" format on the drives. Mandrake >just asked if I wanted to reformat and trundled on. As far as I am >concerned, most of a given distro revolves around the installer and packaged >applications. The Mandrake installer has consistently dealt with the weird >hardware I have laying around better than other distros, on all my boxen. > >I agree that localhost is special. >Hostname gives me: >Localhost.localdomain > >What brought all this on is that I tire of my prompt saying: >[markb@localhost markb]$ >I guess that I should have asked about the "localdomain" part. >Or is this special too? > >Should I be setting my domain to something if I don't have one? >Somehow, it does not seem that using "Comcast.net" is the right thing. > >Mark Browne > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Bob Hartmann [mailto:bhartm@visi.com] >Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 10:49 PM >To: Mark Browne >Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Stupid newbie question > > >Hey Mark, >localhost is not the domain name. localhost is a builtin thing and >should not be altered, like 127.0.0.1. It's the host, meaning THIS >DEVICE, or THIS NODE. >Try "hostname" and "info hostname" >For adding other nodes as names to Linux, Unix or BSD, it's in >/etc/hosts, just like the hosts file on Windows. (I don't remember where >that is) Check out http://tldp.org/LDP/nag/node62.html. Look at the >links at the top of the page! > > >127.0.0.1 localhost >127.0.0.1 hitshed >10.0.0.44 thatotherthing > >cat /etc/nsswitch.conf >hosts: files dns > >Did I hear you right? Mandrake on Sparc? > > >Mark Browne wrote: > > > >>When I set up my linux boxen I have been leaving the domain name as >>localhost. My ISP is Comcast.net and I don't have my own domain name >>to plug in. >> >>I know that this is sort of retarded, but I have no clue about the >>correct thing to do here. >> >>If it makes any difference, I want to network (samba?) my Mandrake-Sun >>Sparc, Mandrake Intel, OS X Mac, AMD-64 XP, and Intel XP boxen >>together later. >> >>A pointer to a good how-to would be nice. >> >>Mark Browne >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> > > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.6 - Release Date: 3/30/2005 From sfertch at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 05:24:33 2005 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Thu Mar 31 05:26:18 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] -bash: java: command not found In-Reply-To: <60739.209.176.212.10.1112241095.squirrel@209.176.212.10> References: <60739.209.176.212.10.1112241095.squirrel@209.176.212.10> Message-ID: <67f3084a05033103243d7689e9@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 21:51:35 -0600 (CST), Raymond Norton wrote: > I am trying to install a program on a fedora core 2 box. The following is > an error I receive after running the java command. > > [root@mail fileIndexer]# java -Xmx256m -jar FileIndexer-1.1.4.jar > -bash: java: command not found > > Any ideas where I should look to resolve this? > >From the command line: whereis java (or: find / -name java ) If it's installed, then: echo $PATH (Checks to see if java is in your path) env (this shows your environment variables) If it's not installed, then download and install java. It sounds as if it's not installed, but do these steps just to make sure. -- -Shawn -Nemo me impune lacessit. Ne Obliviscaris.. From josh at joshwelch.com Thu Mar 31 07:11:26 2005 From: josh at joshwelch.com (josh@joshwelch.com) Date: Thu Mar 31 07:12:19 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] -bash: java: command not found In-Reply-To: <60739.209.176.212.10.1112241095.squirrel@209.176.212.10> References: <60739.209.176.212.10.1112241095.squirrel@209.176.212.10> Message-ID: <1112274686.424bf6fe8fea8@joshwelch.com> Quoting Raymond Norton : > I am trying to install a program on a fedora core 2 box. The following is > an error I receive after running the java command. > > [root@mail fileIndexer]# java -Xmx256m -jar FileIndexer-1.1.4.jar > -bash: java: command not found > > Any ideas where I should look to resolve this? > Most likely java is not in your path. You can either modify your path to include the java executable or you can fully path the java executable when you call it, i.e. : $ /usr/local/java/java -Xmx256m -jar FileIndexer-1.1.4.jar or where ever it is that java gets put. You can use whereis to find it. Josh From rnelson at ronspace.com Thu Mar 31 08:46:29 2005 From: rnelson at ronspace.com (Ron Nelson) Date: Thu Mar 31 08:48:19 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone using Ultra Monkey for load balancing? Message-ID: <200503311446.j2VEkae06236@ronco.internal.net> I'm intrigued by the idea of installing Ultra Monkey on Red Hat Enterprise Linux 3.0, running the Streamline High Availability and Load Balancing topology. This would combine the function of Linux Directors and Real (web/whatever) Servers into the same hosts, so that high availability and load balancing can be achieved with just two nodes. It doesn't scale beyond two nodes, but would provide the redundancy by verifying that application server (ColdFusion) is responding on the other server before directing traffic to that host. Does anyone have experience with Ultra Monkey in any configuration? Got any thoughts on it, or even on the Streamline configuration? Thanks, Ron -- Ron Nelson http://ronspace.com/ From natecars at real-time.com Thu Mar 31 10:25:55 2005 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Thu Mar 31 10:26:21 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] 'Domain Registry Support' Message-ID: Got a call yesterday from Domain Registry Support, saying that they needed my fax number to send me a legal notice about my domain names. I asked why; he said that it was regarding the "loss of my domain name". I asked what role they played, and he said that they were something like "a company that assists the registry in sending out notifications". I specifically said my domains are registered with Godaddy, and asked specifically if they were a registrar. He said no. I told him to put me on his do not call list, he said he couldn't (!), and then proceeded to ask for my fax number again. Out of curiosity, I said fine, and gave him an eFax number. What do you know, today I got a fax from them, saying that 'natcarlson.us has become available for registration, and could be taken at any time!' They then give an 800# to call, which I did some searching on - they are indeed a registrar that charges huge amounts of money to "secure" your domain name. So, on Carl's advice, I set up Asterisk to record the call, called them, informed them they were being recorded, and got both my fax number and my voice number on their do not call list. Hope they call back. :) The funniest thing of all: natecarlson.us was cregistered in Apr of 2000, and doesn't expire until 2007. Hah! -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From chrome at real-time.com Thu Mar 31 10:38:05 2005 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Thu Mar 31 10:38:20 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone using Ultra Monkey for load balancing? In-Reply-To: <200503311446.j2VEkae06236@ronco.internal.net>; from rnelson@ronspace.com on Thu, Mar 31, 2005 at 08:46:29AM -0600 References: <200503311446.j2VEkae06236@ronco.internal.net> Message-ID: <20050331103805.H2486@real-time.com> On 03/31 08:46 , Ron Nelson wrote: > Does anyone have experience with Ultra Monkey in any configuration? Got any > thoughts on it, or even on the Streamline configuration? I thought Ultra Monkey was dead. they don't seem to have done much lately. http://www.ultramonkey.org/ -- Carl Soderstrom If we make enough laws, we will all be criminals. From dfellman at mn.rr.com Thu Mar 31 11:22:36 2005 From: dfellman at mn.rr.com (dfellman@mn.rr.com) Date: Thu Mar 31 11:24:22 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] RE: Stupid newbie question Message-ID: <210b0882107051.2107051210b088@rdc-kc.rr.com> Mark Browne: Debian beats Mandrake. Get with the program. -dwight 8-) From smac at visi.com Thu Mar 31 11:39:20 2005 From: smac at visi.com (smac@visi.com) Date: Thu Mar 31 11:40:21 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] 'Domain Registry Support' Message-ID: <1112290760.424c35c84e121@my.visi.com> Please send this information to the State Attorney Generals office. By not complying with your request to put you on his "no call list" he has committed a crime. Companies are required by law to comply with your request. That and next time ask him for his home phone number, if he does not give it to you, don't give him anything. Also don't ask to be put on a no call list, TELL them to put you on the no call list. Again if they don't comply they are liable for fines and you could receive compensation for your troubles! Sam. From david.alitz at earthlink.net Thu Mar 31 12:04:52 2005 From: david.alitz at earthlink.net (David Alitz) Date: Thu Mar 31 12:08:22 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] 'Domain Registry Support' In-Reply-To: <1112290760.424c35c84e121@my.visi.com> References: <1112290760.424c35c84e121@my.visi.com> Message-ID: <424C3BC4.3040703@earthlink.net> Did he offer to sell you the domain name? If they are just asking for a fax number and not actually soliciting business with the call, the do-not-call statutes don't apply. The last time I checked, callers can do everything but close the sale over the phone without having to subscribe to the national do-not-call list and maintain their own listings. I am not a lawyer, but my company does consumer and business telephone interviewing for market research and I've spent a fair amount of time reading the statutes closely. Dave Alitz smac@visi.com wrote: >Please send this information to the State Attorney Generals office. >By not complying with your request to put you on his "no call list" he >has committed a crime. >Companies are required by law to comply with your request. > >That and next time ask him for his home phone number, if he does not >give it to you, don't give him anything. Also don't ask to be put on a >no call list, TELL them to put you on the no call list. Again if they >don't comply they are liable for fines and you could receive >compensation for your troubles! > >Sam. > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From rnelson at ronspace.com Thu Mar 31 12:06:50 2005 From: rnelson at ronspace.com (Ron Nelson) Date: Thu Mar 31 12:08:29 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone using Ultra Monkey for load balancing? In-Reply-To: <20050331103805.H2486@real-time.com> Message-ID: <200503311807.j2VI6ve07452@ronco.internal.net> Well, looking at the website I find that they released new RHEL kernels on January 20th. There's mailing list traffic this month, though not a lot. It looks like the latest version (2.0.1) was announced on 25 Mar 2003, which isn't that recent... http://www.ultramonkey.org/download/ shows a few options available not yet integrated into 2.0.1. So, not extremely active, but I wouldn't say dead just yet. Of course, nobody has chimed in with a "I'm using it!" What else are folks using? Or is everyone using BigIP or Cisco CSS gear? Ron -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:38 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Anyone using Ultra Monkey for load balancing? On 03/31 08:46 , Ron Nelson wrote: > Does anyone have experience with Ultra Monkey in any configuration? > Got any thoughts on it, or even on the Streamline configuration? I thought Ultra Monkey was dead. they don't seem to have done much lately. http://www.ultramonkey.org/ -- Carl Soderstrom If we make enough laws, we will all be criminals. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list@mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Thu Mar 31 12:25:04 2005 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Thu Mar 31 12:26:21 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] 'Domain Registry Support' In-Reply-To: <424C3BC4.3040703@earthlink.net> References: <1112290760.424c35c84e121@my.visi.com> <424C3BC4.3040703@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Mar 2005, David Alitz wrote: > Did he offer to sell you the domain name? If they are just asking for a > fax number and not actually soliciting business with the call, the > do-not-call statutes don't apply. The last time I checked, callers can > do everything but close the sale over the phone without having to > subscribe to the national do-not-call list and maintain their own > listings. I am not a lawyer, but my company does consumer and business > telephone interviewing for market research and I've spent a fair amount > of time reading the statutes closely. Hmm, interesting - he wanted to fax me a document. That's probably why he wouldn't tell me what they were trying to do over the phone. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From wylnewland at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 13:13:47 2005 From: wylnewland at gmail.com (Wyl Newland) Date: Thu Mar 31 13:16:22 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] 'Domain Registry Support' In-Reply-To: <424C3BC4.3040703@earthlink.net> References: <1112290760.424c35c84e121@my.visi.com> <424C3BC4.3040703@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <15eea732050331111324c55b2c@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:04:52 -0600, David Alitz wrote: > The last time I checked, callers can > do everything but close the sale over the phone without having to > subscribe to the national do-not-call list and maintain their own > listings. Remember the Minnesota do-not-call list? I put my number on that list and began getting many more calls. One fellow explained that the list saved him lots of trouble because he called straight off the list, but since he was not trying to close the sale, it was OK. I called the Minnesota AG's office and complained mightily. Now I am getting lots of calls that are not preceeded by a live operator as required by law--or did that law change too? From florin at iucha.net Thu Mar 31 13:20:34 2005 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Thu Mar 31 13:21:26 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] 'Domain Registry Support' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050331192034.GA26517@iucha.net> On Thu, Mar 31, 2005 at 10:25:55AM -0600, Nate Carlson wrote: > Got a call yesterday from Domain Registry Support, saying that they needed > my fax number to send me a legal notice about my domain names. I asked > why; he said that it was regarding the "loss of my domain name". I asked > what role they played, and he said that they were something like "a > company that assists the registry in sending out notifications". Every now and then I get a snail mail piece asking me to "renew" my domain(s) with some company. Last week, I got something that looked like an invoice in the amount of $35 for "search engine placement" of my web site ;) florin -- Don't question authority: they don't know either! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050331/dbcf4d2f/attachment.pgp From scotjenkins at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 13:40:26 2005 From: scotjenkins at gmail.com (Scot Jenkins) Date: Thu Mar 31 13:42:22 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Debian problem: apt-get not working In-Reply-To: References: <20050330141836.GA19638@wookimus.net> Message-ID: Thanks to Andrew, Chad, and Brian for the replies. I believe I must have been hitting a mirror site (via round robin DNS) that had not yet synced up. It's working now just fine. Scot On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 10:02:58 -0600, Andrew Zbikowski wrote: > The debian mirrors are in a DNS round robin...if you're using > http.us.debian.org it's possible one box got updates from a server > that had been synced, and the other box from a server that hasn't > finished syncing. > > -- > Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us > A password is like your underwear; Change it > frequently, don't share it with others, and > don't ask to borrow someone else's. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From admin at lctn.org Thu Mar 31 13:46:03 2005 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Thu Mar 31 13:48:23 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] -bash: java: command not found In-Reply-To: <1112274686.424bf6fe8fea8@joshwelch.com> References: <60739.209.176.212.10.1112241095.squirrel@209.176.212.10> <1112274686.424bf6fe8fea8@joshwelch.com> Message-ID: <1972.64.8.148.30.1112298363.squirrel@64.8.148.30> > Most likely java is not in your path. You can either modify your path to > include > the java executable or you can fully path the java executable when you > call it, > i.e. : > $ /usr/local/java/java -Xmx256m -jar FileIndexer-1.1.4.jar > or where ever it is that java gets put. You can use whereis to find it. I managed to get the line to execute by entering the full path ( /usr/java/jre1.5.0_02/bin/java -Xmx256m -jar FileIndexer-1.1.4.jar ) The jar file reads a configuration script with the db, user, and pwd. I get this error even when using root as the db user. I am able to work with the database via the shell without any errors or warnings. Any ideas? java.sql.SQLException: Invalid authorization specification message from server: "Access denied for user: 'dms@localhost.localdomain' (Using password: YES)" at com.mysql.jdbc.MysqlIO.checkErrorPacket(MysqlIO.java:1997) at com.mysql.jdbc.MysqlIO.checkErrorPacket(MysqlIO.java:1906) at com.mysql.jdbc.MysqlIO.doHandshake(MysqlIO.java:954) at com.mysql.jdbc.Connection.createNewIO(Connection.java:1902) at com.mysql.jdbc.Connection.(Connection.java:450) at com.mysql.jdbc.NonRegisteringDriver.connect(NonRegisteringDriver.java:411) at java.sql.DriverManager.getConnection(Unknown Source) at java.sql.DriverManager.getConnection(Unknown Source) at com.jamwarehouse.fileIndexer.datastore.FullTextKTDataStore.initialize(Unknown Source) at com.jamwarehouse.fileIndexer.FileIndexer.main(Unknown Source) ** END NESTED EXCEPTION ** From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Thu Mar 31 14:23:22 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Thu Mar 31 14:26:23 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] -bash: java: command not found In-Reply-To: <1972.64.8.148.30.1112298363.squirrel@64.8.148.30> References: <60739.209.176.212.10.1112241095.squirrel@209.176.212.10> <1112274686.424bf6fe8fea8@joshwelch.com> <1972.64.8.148.30.1112298363.squirrel@64.8.148.30> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Mar 2005, Raymond Norton wrote: > I managed to get the line to execute by entering the full path > > ( /usr/java/jre1.5.0_02/bin/java -Xmx256m -jar FileIndexer-1.1.4.jar ) By the way, I usually use a symbolic link to deal with weird paths like that one: ln -s /usr/java/jre1.5.0_02/bin/java /usr/local/bin/java Assuming /usr/local/bin is in your path, that will put java in your path and "ls -l /usr/local/bin/java" will show you the link. I know some of this is very basic but not everyone is an expert here! Mike From admin at lctn.org Thu Mar 31 14:50:39 2005 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Thu Mar 31 14:52:23 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] -bash: java: command not found In-Reply-To: References: <60739.209.176.212.10.1112241095.squirrel@209.176.212.10> <1112274686.424bf6fe8fea8@joshwelch.com> <1972.64.8.148.30.1112298363.squirrel@64.8.148.30> Message-ID: <2718.64.8.148.30.1112302239.squirrel@64.8.148.30> > ln -s /usr/java/jre1.5.0_02/bin/java /usr/local/bin/java > > Assuming /usr/local/bin is in your path, that will put java in your path > and "ls -l /usr/local/bin/java" will show you the link. > > I know some of this is very basic but not everyone is an expert here! > Thanks. That fixes the path, but I still get access denied to the database when running the jar file. From cschumann at twp-llc.com Thu Mar 31 15:44:41 2005 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Thu Mar 31 15:46:23 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on old laptop Message-ID: <200503312145.j2VLjFtW019625@localhost.localdomain> OK, I've got a very old laptop. 33MHz 486, no CD drive. I want to run Linux on it. I tried Gentoo, and got pretty far, but when I tried to build a kernel, well... there are a couple bugs in the source for building for a 486 with nopci and isapnp. I tried using their generic kernel genkernel, but that panicked on boot. So I've kind of given up on that distro. I'm trying a Slackware install over a network. I get NFS apparently working, but once it actually starts to install that first package (aaa_base?) it hangs. Then it says it's waiting for the NFS server. (That server is a 900MHz Athlon running Fedora Core 3 and NFS.) I think my next step is to try a hard disk install. Nanobox Linux just reboots over and over. Slackware bare+root only has wget and NFS. No ftp, no smb, so doing any kind of recursive copy is out... and NFS doesn't seem to work too well. Any tips or pointers would be great, as I'd really like to use this thing as a print server if nothing else. Getting X and sound to work would be just too cool, but probably too much effort. Many thanks, Chris Schumann From adam at whee.org Thu Mar 31 15:46:09 2005 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Thu Mar 31 16:02:24 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on old laptop In-Reply-To: <200503312145.j2VLjFtW019625@localhost.localdomain> References: <200503312145.j2VLjFtW019625@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Mar 2005, Chris Schumann wrote: > I'm trying a Slackware install over a network. I get NFS apparently working, > but once it actually starts to install that first package (aaa_base?) it > hangs. Then it says it's waiting for the NFS server. (That server is a > 900MHz Athlon running Fedora Core 3 and NFS.) The NFS install should work - this sounds like something may not be setup properly on the NFS server. What's the OS on the server? Are you seeing anything in your logs from nfs, mountd, portmap? How about doing a tcpdump on the server and seeing how far the NFS negotiation is getting? (yes, tcpdump is my solution to everything) It might be something simple, like the server is forcing NFSv3 or TCP, and slack doesn't support it. > Slackware bare+root only has wget and NFS. No ftp, no smb, so doing any kind > of recursive copy is out... and NFS doesn't seem to work too well. Have you thought about doing a floppy install? You're not REALLY a slackware user until you've downloaded the disks over a modem connection and done a full install with floppy :) From cschumann at twp-llc.com Thu Mar 31 16:49:29 2005 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Thu Mar 31 16:50:24 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on old laptop In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200503312250.j2VMo2mH019682@localhost.localdomain> > From: Adam Maloney [mailto:adam@whee.org] > On Thu, 31 Mar 2005, Chris Schumann wrote: > > > I'm trying a Slackware install over a network. I get NFS apparently > > working, but once it actually starts to install that first package > > (aaa_base?) it hangs. Then it says it's waiting for the NFS server. > > (That server is a 900MHz Athlon running Fedora Core 3 and NFS.) > > The NFS install should work - this sounds like something may > not be setup properly on the NFS server. What's the OS on > the server? Are you seeing anything in your logs from nfs, > mountd, portmap? How about doing a tcpdump on the server and > seeing how far the NFS negotiation is getting? > (yes, tcpdump is my solution to everything) It might be > something simple, like the server is forcing NFSv3 or TCP, > and slack doesn't support it. Again, the server is Fedora Core 3 with all patches. I haven't checked logs just yet. I'm a long-time Linux user, and have done some pretty heavy admin stuff (like getting cyrus-imapd running). I administer two Linux machines for my company, but I have not done much code or network debugging. Tips, pointers and mentoring would be much appreciated. It SHOULD work. And I have interrupted the process and been able to see the "drive" mounted and got good responses to ls and such, but when starting something with a little more bandwidth, it just locks up. I think there's an issue with stability in the driver (axnet_cs) on hardware this old... and the load the ISA bus has on the system. The machine is my ThinkPad 750P, which I have souped up to 36MB RAM and a 12GB disk. Really. > > Slackware bare+root only has wget and NFS. No ftp, no smb, so doing > > any kind of recursive copy is out... and NFS doesn't seem > to work too well. > > Have you thought about doing a floppy install? You're not > REALLY a slackware user until you've downloaded the disks > over a modem connection and done a full install with floppy :) At this point, a floppy install would be high on my list, but... I hate to break this to you, but Slackware no longer supports a floppy install. There are four options: Hard disk, NFS, pre-mounted and CD-ROM. Floppy has been removed from the menus even though it is still listed on http://www.slackware.com/install/setup.php. Should I try 9.1? Something older? Chris Schumann From MKroska at kdv.com Thu Mar 31 16:46:01 2005 From: MKroska at kdv.com (Mark J. Kroska) Date: Thu Mar 31 16:50:32 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Networking Question: Update to domain affectsubdomain? Message-ID: You are right on, it should not have any impact on traffic: under the assumption that DNS is set correctly. As long as there are distinct A records for each .hound.com, chow.hound.com and www.hound.com you will be fine. In fact, we have this exact situation for most domains where mail points to one server and the web site points to another; whether that be on another local IP or outside the network altogether. Rock on! MK Mark J. Kroska Director of Web Services KDV Technology and Consulting Services, Inc. Direct 320-258-6412 Main 320-252-7060 Fax 320-252-9627 mkroska@kdv.com "NOTICE: This E-mail (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited, Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, then delete it. Thank you." ________________________________ From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org on behalf of MaryJaneRottenCrotch Sent: Wed 3/30/2005 2:12 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Networking Question: Update to domain affectsubdomain? If I have a subdomain called: chow.hound.com which points to valid IP address, say serverA and update the IP address that www.hound.com and hound.com point to (say from serverB to serverC), would it affect traffic to chow.hound.com? >From what I know, the subdomain chow.hound.com should not be affected by changes to the hound.com or www.hound.com records..... maybe I'm missing something? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list@mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050331/bbdb9741/attachment.htm From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Thu Mar 31 16:56:50 2005 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Thu Mar 31 16:57:23 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on old laptop In-Reply-To: <200503312145.j2VLjFtW019625@localhost.localdomain> References: <200503312145.j2VLjFtW019625@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20050331225650.GA29835@mail.el-swifto.com> On Thu, Mar 31, 2005 at 03:44:41PM -0600, Chris Schumann wrote: > OK, I've got a very old laptop. 33MHz 486, no CD drive. I want to run > Linux on it. [snip] > Any tips or pointers would be great, as I'd really like to use this > thing as a print server if nothing else. Getting X and sound to work > would be just too cool, but probably too much effort. I got stock debian stable to run on an old laptop, either 386 or 486, with 8 MB RAM and ~100 MB HD. There's a HOWTO. -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota From admin at lctn.org Thu Mar 31 17:02:31 2005 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Thu Mar 31 17:04:24 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] -bash: java: command not found In-Reply-To: References: <60739.209.176.212.10.1112241095.squirrel@209.176.212.10> <1112274686.424bf6fe8fea8@joshwelch.com> <1972.64.8.148.30.1112298363.squirrel@64.8.148.30> Message-ID: <36431.64.8.149.66.1112310151.squirrel@64.8.149.66> > Do you have Mysql installed? > > If so, do you have a Mysql user called dms, etc? Looks like you don't > have your database and/or the configuration for the java application set > up correctly. > > Pat > yes, Mysql is installed. There is a dms user with full rights to the database. The error occurs for root too, but only when trying to execute the jar file. There is an XML file that is used to access the database, but it is very basic and hard to make an error in. I am able to work with the database without errors via the shell and web interface. From SDALAN04 at smumn.edu Thu Mar 31 21:33:02 2005 From: SDALAN04 at smumn.edu (David Alanis) Date: Thu Mar 31 21:34:56 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Project Management Class. Message-ID: <2005040103330290178ef2c8@mail.smumn.edu> Good evening, Is anyone on the list taking or have taken a Project Management class. I am looking to compare projects. Is there any powerpoint papers references you can please share. David Why does the Air Force need expensive new bombers? Have the people we've been bombing over the years been complaining? -George Wallace "Cuanta estupidez en tan poco cerebro!" From nassarmu at beitsahour.net Thu Mar 31 16:20:05 2005 From: nassarmu at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Fri Apr 1 10:43:34 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on old laptop In-Reply-To: <200503312145.j2VLjFtW019625@localhost.localdomain> References: <200503312145.j2VLjFtW019625@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <424C7795.90807@beitsahour.net> Chris Schumann wrote: > OK, I've got a very old laptop. 33MHz 486, no CD drive. I want to run Linux > on it. my experience with really old laptops is that they have really wierd hardware requiring really odd options making it really painful to maintain. imho it is really not worth it to dink with these old horses and send them the way of the dodo. every now and then somebody comes along here and sells PII laptops for $50/pop... a good deal if you just want a clunker to ssh out of or to use as a serial terminal. the one i got does X too, it just takes a while to load X and then another while to load firefox, but once they are loaded it works fine. -- Munir Nassar -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 256 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050331/4e98d43e/signature.pgp