From markdeb.browne at comcast.net Wed Sep 1 07:49:13 2004 From: markdeb.browne at comcast.net (Mark Browne) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] YAGI (Yet Another batch of Invitations to join the Gmail collective) Message-ID: <001801c49022$1877aac0$1e02a8c0@zippy> Click. Join. Become an unpaid Beta tester! https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-caef070b03-a0938d8a5b-7001d2d55b https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-caef070b03-ec0de432bf-b703bf8fb4 https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-caef070b03-7eeaeae7e9-fff0443a51 https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-caef070b03-403ab0e025-9f64a23fe9 https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-caef070b03-a91d306e21-ce01516cb1 https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-caef070b03-52ae1944f5-d128a972a4 mark.browne@gmail.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jkjones at tcq.net Wed Sep 1 09:38:38 2004 From: jkjones at tcq.net (Kraig Jones) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Prism54 (Was kernel 2.6 ready for prime time?) In-Reply-To: References: <20040826154114.000038b0@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <412E5889.4060302@tcq.net> <4133F368.6040306@tcq.net> Message-ID: <4135DEEE.9090102@tcq.net> Andrew Zbikowski wrote: >Do you have pcmcia-cs installed and started? pcmcia card services >should be handeling your pc cards...not hotplug (I think this is still >true in 2.6...haven't tried 2.6 on a laptop yet myself. My wireless >cards are PCI cards.) > >If pcmcia-cs is running, you should see an event in syslog when you >plug your card in. Try tail -f /var/log/syslog then plug your card in >(or enter dmesg after plugging in your card.) > >That's about as much help as we can offer around here until we know >what distribution. :) > > > I'm running Debian 3, kernel 2.6.7. I upgraded to 2.6 after I had so much trouble trying to install the prism54 driver. Now with 2.6, prism54 looks OK, now I can't get the cardbus/pcmcia stuff working again. 'lsmod' shows prism54, but no pcmcia-cs. Here's the output from tail -f /var/log/syslog: Sep 1 09:12:36 localhost kernel: NET: Registered protocol family 10 Sep 1 09:12:36 localhost kernel: Disabled Privacy Extensions on device c02c3f00(lo) Sep 1 09:12:36 localhost kernel: IPv6 over IPv4 tunneling driver Sep 1 09:12:38 localhost rpc.statd[1842]: Version 1.0.6 Starting Sep 1 09:12:38 localhost rpc.statd[1842]: statd running as root. chown /var/lib/nfs/sm to choose different user Sep 1 09:12:39 localhost /usr/sbin/cron[1883]: (CRON) INFO (pidfile fd = 3) Sep 1 09:12:39 localhost /usr/sbin/cron[1884]: (CRON) STARTUP (fork ok) Sep 1 09:12:40 localhost /usr/sbin/cron[1884]: (CRON) INFO (Running @reboot jobs) Sep 1 09:12:46 localhost kernel: apm: BIOS version 1.2 Flags 0x03 (Driver version 1.16ac) Sep 1 09:17:01 localhost /USR/SBIN/CRON[2233]: (root) CMD ( run-parts --report /etc/cron.hourly) Then when I unplug and replug the wireless card, syslog adds the message "localhost kernel: PCI: device 0000:05:00.0 has unknown header type 7f, ignoring" 'cardmgr' says: open_sock (socket 0) failed: device or resource busy another card manager is already running? Now, I have the 'pcmcia-cs' package installed (3.2.5-8), and a kernel-pcmcia-modules-2.4.25-1-386 (I can't find a kernel-modules for kernel 2.6, maybe that's part of the problem). It looks to me like the pieces of hotplug/cardbus or whatever are out of whack, but it's just getting more confusing the deeper I dig into it. Thanks for the help. Kraig _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at joshwelch.com Wed Sep 1 09:52:34 2004 From: tclug at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Stupid Apache Question Message-ID: <1094050354.4135e23242668@joshwelch.com> I can not remember the config option to get an apache server to prohibit the listing of directories. I'm browsing through the docs, but can not find it. I'm sure once this mail hits the list I'll figure it out. Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andyzib at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 10:03:12 2004 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Prism54 (Was kernel 2.6 ready for prime time?) In-Reply-To: References: <20040826154114.000038b0@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <412E5889.4060302@tcq.net> <4133F368.6040306@tcq.net> <4135DEEE.9090102@tcq.net> Message-ID: Ah...well prism54 won't work on (stock) Woody. If you don't want to make the leap to sarge, your best bet would be to add: deb http://www.backports.org/debian stable kernel-2.6 pcmcia-cs apt-get update && apt-get upgrade Things might start working...not sure. I'm just guessing, I don't have a woody box to play with. :) -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 09:55:06 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] YAGI (Yet Another batch of Invitations to join the Gmail collective) In-Reply-To: <001801c49022$1877aac0$1e02a8c0@zippy> References: <001801c49022$1877aac0$1e02a8c0@zippy> Message-ID: <914f813c04090107555581a069@mail.gmail.com> http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-cb47b8f5cb-cfaeb39d7a-dc894d7862 http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-cb47b8f5cb-6f18944ea7-410a754953 http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-cb47b8f5cb-d4aa7c2947-b99f598de8 http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-cb47b8f5cb-2f2d509a83-84a044802a http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-cb47b8f5cb-51f1889787-db91835fd5 On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 07:49:13 -0500, Mark Browne wrote: > Click. > Join. > Become an unpaid Beta tester! > > https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-caef070b03-a0938d8a5b-7001d2d55b > https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-caef070b03-ec0de432bf-b703bf8fb4 > https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-caef070b03-7eeaeae7e9-fff0443a51 > https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-caef070b03-403ab0e025-9f64a23fe9 > https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-caef070b03-a91d306e21-ce01516cb1 > https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-caef070b03-52ae1944f5-d128a972a4 > > mark.browne@gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- John T. Hoffoss _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tommyj27 at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 10:11:01 2004 From: tommyj27 at gmail.com (Thomas Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] YAGI (Yet Another batch of Invitations to join the Gmail collective) In-Reply-To: <001801c49022$1877aac0$1e02a8c0@zippy> References: <001801c49022$1877aac0$1e02a8c0@zippy> Message-ID: <1469cda2040901081128afb50f@mail.gmail.com> another invite. http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-7a1be00e-a0d47e9c4d-a87933ee03 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From narshe at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 10:02:58 2004 From: narshe at gmail.com (Josh Close) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Stupid Apache Question In-Reply-To: <1094050354.4135e23242668@joshwelch.com> References: <1094050354.4135e23242668@joshwelch.com> Message-ID: <4a0cafe20409010802747c23b8@mail.gmail.com> Options Indexes AllowOverride All -Josh On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:52:34 -0500, Josh Welch wrote: > > I can not remember the config option to get an apache server to prohibit the > listing of directories. I'm browsing through the docs, but can not find it. I'm > sure once this mail hits the list I'll figure it out. > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Sep 1 10:09:08 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Stupid Apache Question In-Reply-To: <1094050354.4135e23242668@joshwelch.com> References: <1094050354.4135e23242668@joshwelch.com> Message-ID: <20040901150908.GA31367@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jethro at freakzilla.com Wed Sep 1 10:20:57 2004 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Stupid Apache Question In-Reply-To: <1094050354.4135e23242668@joshwelch.com> References: <1094050354.4135e23242668@joshwelch.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Sep 2004, Josh Welch wrote: > I can not remember the config option to get an apache server to prohibit the > listing of directories. It's the other way round. You put "Options Indexes" in to allow indexing. -Yaron -- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From eric at lgthouse.com Wed Sep 1 10:28:49 2004 From: eric at lgthouse.com (Eric Peterson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Local distributor of refurbished servers? Message-ID: <3537.160.94.198.188.1094052529.squirrel@160.94.198.188> Anyone know of a good local distributor of used servers? Especially Dell servers. Looking for decent servers at a decent price and google didn't seem to know of any local distributors. I had found one a few weeks ago, but I failed to bookmark their website and now I can't find it again. thanks! _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Gregory.Siems at state.mn.us Wed Sep 1 10:43:09 2004 From: Gregory.Siems at state.mn.us (Gregory Siems) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bare metal restore wierdness Message-ID: <1094053389.2614.8.camel@tempest.pca.state.mn.us> I am attempting to implement a means of performing bare metal recovery of the Linux boxes under my care. To do this I have a script that tars up the files and creates scripts for restoring the partitioning, boot loader, etc. The idea being that if I have a bootable Linux distribution (i.e. Knoppix) and the backup then I could bare metal restore the backed up system. This works pretty well so far except for one problem with xfs. The box that is being backed up is partitioned along the lines of: /dev/hda1 /boot /dev/hda2 /u01 /dev/hda3 /var /dev/hda5 /usr /dev/hda6 /tmp /dev/hda7 / /dev/hda8 If I restore to a similarly partitioned box then xfs dies when started by the init.d script (where /etc/init.d/xfs tries to start xfs as 'xfs -droppriv -daemon'). If I manually start xfs as 'xfs -daemon' then xfs runs just fine. To make matters more interesting, if the restore is done against a simpler partitioning scheme such as: /dev/hda1 /boot /dev/hda2 /dev/hda3 / then xfs works fine when started by the init.d script. FWIW, I'm using tar with ' --same-owner -cpzf ' to perform the backup and ' -xzkpf ' to restore. Anyone have any ideas what's up with this? --greg _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rotbau at squishnet.com Wed Sep 1 11:15:29 2004 From: rotbau at squishnet.com (rotbau@squishnet.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qmail mailer-daemon mail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1094055329.4135f5a1bf057@www.squishnet.com> Hello all, I have recently set up qmail and I have a question regarding the mailer-daemon mail. I am new to qmail (used to run sendmail) so this may be a easy/dumb question. I get a fair number of bounces when qmail sends out a delivery failure notice for non existent user or user that has been deleted. Of course most of the bounces are caused by spam so the failure notice from qmail gets bounced back to qmail which then notifies me via the mailer-daemon address of the failure. I know that qmail uses the .qmail files to deliver alaises. Originally the .qmail alias for mailer-daemon was a simlink to the .qmail postmaster file which contains the user I want to receive system mail I removed the simlink and made the .qmail file for mailer-daemon try to send mail to /dev/null hoping this might stop the messages from clogging up my inbox. No luck. I still get them. Anyone have any suggestions how to stop/control/configure messages from mailer-daemon or the qmail mta in general? Thanks. regards, rotbau _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Wed Sep 1 11:29:39 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qmail mailer-daemon mail In-Reply-To: <1094055329.4135f5a1bf057@www.squishnet.com> Message-ID: If you just want to stop these particular messages, try googling around for qmail and "double bounce", which is the sendmail nomenclature for the bounce-of-a-bounce message. grep -B 1 -i doublebounce /etc/mail/sendmail.cf: # where do errors that occur when sending errors get sent? #O DoubleBounceAddress=postmaster On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 rotbau@squishnet.com wrote: > Hello all, > > I have recently set up qmail and I have a question regarding the mailer-daemon > mail. I am new to qmail (used to run sendmail) so this may be a easy/dumb > question. > > I get a fair number of bounces when qmail sends out a delivery failure notice > for non existent user or user that has been deleted. Of course most of the > bounces are caused by spam so the failure notice from qmail gets bounced back > to qmail which then notifies me via the mailer-daemon address of the failure. > > I know that qmail uses the .qmail files to deliver alaises. Originally the > .qmail alias for mailer-daemon was a simlink to the .qmail postmaster file > which contains the user I want to receive system mail I removed the simlink > and made the .qmail file for mailer-daemon try to send mail to /dev/null hoping > this might stop the messages from clogging up my inbox. No luck. I still get > them. > > Anyone have any suggestions how to stop/control/configure messages from > mailer-daemon or the qmail mta in general? Thanks. > > regards, rotbau > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From electrum at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 11:43:32 2004 From: electrum at gmail.com (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qmail mailer-daemon mail In-Reply-To: <1094055329.4135f5a1bf057@www.squishnet.com> References: <1094055329.4135f5a1bf057@www.squishnet.com> Message-ID: <853e1ecc04090109434cb83581@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:15:29 -0500, rotbau@squishnet.com wrote: > I removed the simlink > and made the .qmail file for mailer-daemon try to send mail to /dev/null hoping > this might stop the messages from clogging up my inbox. No luck. I still get > them. You probably have a .qmail-default file in ~/alias that is delivering mail to you. Create a .qmail-mailer-daemon file in ~/alias with a single #. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mcnixon at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 11:46:22 2004 From: mcnixon at gmail.com (Mike Nixon) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] YAGI (Yet Another batch of Invitations to join the Gmail collective) In-Reply-To: <1469cda2040901081128afb50f@mail.gmail.com> References: <001801c49022$1877aac0$1e02a8c0@zippy> <1469cda2040901081128afb50f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Are the Gmail invites still going like hotcakes? I got my invite off ebay last Saturday, and I've got 6 invites ready to go out if people run out of other sources. I assume by now the list is becoming saturated. mcnixon at (I'll let you guess the rest of my address) Mike _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Wed Sep 1 12:11:58 2004 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bare metal restore wierdness In-Reply-To: <1094053389.2614.8.camel@tempest.pca.state.mn.us> References: <1094053389.2614.8.camel@tempest.pca.state.mn.us> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Sep 2004, Gregory Siems wrote: > I am attempting to implement a means of performing bare metal recovery > of the Linux boxes under my care. To do this I have a script that tars > up the files and creates scripts for restoring the partitioning, boot > loader, etc. The idea being that if I have a bootable Linux distribution > (i.e. Knoppix) and the backup then I could bare metal restore the backed > up system. Not to answer your question directly, but have you tried using Mondo? It's a full-featured restore utilitity just like what you describe. http://www.mondorescue.org/ -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Wed Sep 1 12:55:11 2004 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qmail mailer-daemon mail In-Reply-To: <1094055329.4135f5a1bf057@www.squishnet.com> References: <1094055329.4135f5a1bf057@www.squishnet.com> Message-ID: <20040901175511.GA12169@refried.org> On Wed, Sep 01, 2004 at 11:15:29AM -0500, rotbau@squishnet.com wrote: > I have recently set up qmail and I have a question regarding the mailer-daemon > mail. I am new to qmail (used to run sendmail) so this may be a easy/dumb > question. Congratulations. Are you enjoying Qmail thus far? > I get a fair number of bounces when qmail sends out a delivery failure notice > for non existent user or user that has been deleted. Of course most of the > bounces are caused by spam so the failure notice from qmail gets bounced back > to qmail which then notifies me via the mailer-daemon address of the failure. I ended up getting a lot of these too. What I did was replace qmail-smtpd with qpsmtpd. It's a replacement that works pretty well and has lots of plugins for dealing with spam at the smtp conversation level. I think it's the best thing since spamassassin. http://smtpd.develooper.com/ Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Gregory.Siems at state.mn.us Wed Sep 1 13:14:24 2004 From: Gregory.Siems at state.mn.us (Gregory Siems) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bare metal restore wierdness In-Reply-To: References: <1094053389.2614.8.camel@tempest.pca.state.mn.us> Message-ID: <1094062464.2614.39.camel@tempest.pca.state.mn.us> Yes I have, it was the first thing I tried. When Mondo works it's great and I like it-- unfortunately Mondo appears to have issues with some of my boxes. Since Mondo wasn't pure joy I rolled my own (good way to learn the issues involved w/bare metal recovery if nothing else) and *appear* to have it working except for the xfs issue (and now I'm curious). Slightly off topic, part of my testing has been trying to restore to dissimilar hardware (think disaster recovery). I was very pleasantly amazed to be able to restore a Compaq DL320 running RedHat 7.3 to a Omnitech desktop and have the restored box work (after running kudzu of course)-- I think the only thing the two boxes have in common is a Pentium processor. --greg PS. I just yesterday ran across a tool called mkCDrec (http://mkcdrec.ota.be/) that looks similar to Mondo but haven't tested it yet. On Wed, 2004-09-01 at 12:11, Nate Carlson wrote: > On Wed, 1 Sep 2004, Gregory Siems wrote: > > I am attempting to implement a means of performing bare metal recovery > > of the Linux boxes under my care. To do this I have a script that tars > > up the files and creates scripts for restoring the partitioning, boot > > loader, etc. The idea being that if I have a bootable Linux distribution > > (i.e. Knoppix) and the backup then I could bare metal restore the backed > > up system. > > Not to answer your question directly, but have you tried using Mondo? It's > a full-featured restore utilitity just like what you describe. > > http://www.mondorescue.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Wed Sep 1 14:20:14 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GMail invites Message-ID: First 4 people to e-mail me get an invite. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Wed Sep 1 14:48:04 2004 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41362774.9070008@redconcepts.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Adam Maloney wrote: | First 4 people to e-mail me get an invite. HAH! first 6 to email me get an invite! - -- Munir Nassar -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBNid0WlMewKPdsVURAgIgAJ9JgHKuo8dTWjba7oDw9okplwDaPwCeNkzn nfT5Lr2p5mT93OE3xfycQNg= =yZXk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Wed Sep 1 14:47:29 2004 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (James Kaufman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GMail Invites Message-ID: <20040901194729.GB32290@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> I've got five invites to give away too. -- Jim Kaufman Linux Evangelist public key 0x6D802619 --- That man is richest whose pleasures are cheapest. -- Thoreau _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andyzib at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 15:27:34 2004 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Prism54 (Was kernel 2.6 ready for prime time?) In-Reply-To: <4135EC20.5020107@tcq.net> References: <20040826154114.000038b0@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <412E5889.4060302@tcq.net> <4133F368.6040306@tcq.net> <4135DEEE.9090102@tcq.net> <4135EC20.5020107@tcq.net> Message-ID: First add this to your /etc/apt/sources.list: deb http://www.backports.org/debian stable kernel-2.6 pcmcia-cs hotplug Then run apt-get update && apt-get upgrade That should fetch you new versions of the kernel, pcmcia-cs, hotplug, and hopefully everything else needed to run 2.6 under woody.... Otherwise, to upgrade to Sarge: Edit /etc/apt/soruces.list, chance woody or stable to sarge (or testing if you perfer...) Then: apt-get update && apt-get -dy dist-upgrade Apt will start downloading. The -dy flags tell it to download only, and answer yes to all questions. Putting it in a screen means that you can detach it and reattach it. Just hit Ctrl + A then D to detach. screen -r to reattach. Useful if you want to monitor this where ever your are, in an xterm, at the system console, via ssh. It will take awhile to download all the new packages. Once they are downloaded, apt-get dist-upgrade to install. Keep in mind that Sarge is still in the testing phase. I've been running it on my workstation for some time now without issue. I suggest trying the backports.org method first...that might be enough to do it. -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rotbau at squishnet.com Wed Sep 1 15:54:49 2004 From: rotbau at squishnet.com (rotbau@squishnet.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Qmail mailer-daemon mail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1094072089.41363719f0bd9@www.squishnet.com> > You probably have a .qmail-default file in ~/alias that is delivering > mail to you. Create a .qmail-mailer-daemon file in ~/alias with a > single #. Thanks I will check and see if the is a .qmail-default because even when I removed the mailer-daemon file I still got the mail. I will also try the single #. regards. rotbau _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rotbau at squishnet.com Wed Sep 1 16:01:31 2004 From: rotbau at squishnet.com (rotbau@squishnet.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Qmail mailer-daemon mail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1094072491.413638ab35ebe@www.squishnet.com> > Congratulations. Are you enjoying Qmail thus far? Thanks. I do like it so far, that is once I got the qmail-smtpd patched to work with checkpassword and got imap/pop/horde working. I like the .qmail files and the ease of aliasing. I am still working to get the mysql lookup for users going (but that's for another post). > > What I did was replace > qmail-smtpd with qpsmtpd. It's a replacement that works pretty well and > has lots of plugins for dealing with spam at the smtp conversation > level. I think it's the best thing since spamassassin. > > http://smtpd.develooper.com/ > > Nate I will take a look at this, it sounds great. Thanks. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Wed Sep 1 16:26:19 2004 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Qmail mailer-daemon mail In-Reply-To: <1094072491.413638ab35ebe@www.squishnet.com> References: <1094072491.413638ab35ebe@www.squishnet.com> Message-ID: <20040901162619.00006687@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 16:01:31 -0500 rotbau@squishnet.com wrote: > > What I did was replace > > qmail-smtpd with qpsmtpd. It's a replacement that works pretty > > well and has lots of plugins for dealing with spam at the smtp > > conversation level. I think it's the best thing since > > spamassassin. > > > > http://smtpd.develooper.com/ > > > > Nate > > > I will take a look at this, it sounds great. Thanks. My personal favorite is mailfront - http://untroubled.org/mailfront/ - probably doesn't work with qpsmtpd though. If you want to do effective POP-after-SMTP use relay-ctrl - http://untroubled.org/relay-ctrl/ http://untroubled.org/ contains lots of useful software. Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Wed Sep 1 16:27:13 2004 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: <41362774.9070008@redconcepts.net> References: <41362774.9070008@redconcepts.net> Message-ID: <20040901162713.00003011@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 14:48:04 -0500 Munir Nassar wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Adam Maloney wrote: > | First 4 people to e-mail me get an invite. > > HAH! > > first 6 to email me get an invite! That makes about 50 this week I think - are there that many TCLUGers getting gmail accounts? Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clindholm at bigfoot.com Wed Sep 1 17:36:32 2004 From: clindholm at bigfoot.com (Carl Lindholm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] installing an hp 5510 all in one printer Message-ID: <41364EF0.1000800@bigfoot.com> I'm trying to install an hp officejet 5510 printer on linux. I have loaded hpoj for scanning and the latest redhat-config-printer and redhat-config-printer-gui. when I run 'service hpoj setup' it finds the printer and creates a queue. When I run the printer configuration I don't know what driver to use. :-(> the 5510 is not listed. I select one of the officejets like office jet pro 1175c and when I runn a test page nothing. :-(> I'm using lpr should I switch to cups? HELP. -- Carl Lindholm 206 Maryknoll Drive Stillwater,Mn 55082 (651) 439-8710 To fly one must throw them self at the ground really hard and miss. The ride is the objective, the destination the mere excuse. :>) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 17:48:43 2004 From: there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com (Loren H. Burlingame) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: <20040901162713.00003011@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> References: <41362774.9070008@redconcepts.net> <20040901162713.00003011@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> Message-ID: I have to admit, I took two... am I going to hell? On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 16:27:13 -0500, Josh Trutwin wrote: > On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 14:48:04 -0500 > Munir Nassar wrote: > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Adam Maloney wrote: > > | First 4 people to e-mail me get an invite. > > > > HAH! > > > > first 6 to email me get an invite! > > That makes about 50 this week I think - are there that many TCLUGers getting gmail accounts? > > Josh > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Loren H. Burlingame GPG Key ID: 0x3EA9CF8F "Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes." -William Shatner (a.k.a. Buck Murdock) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jonathan at nevala.com Wed Sep 1 18:06:57 2004 From: jonathan at nevala.com (Jonathan Nevala) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001801c49078$649f1900$8e01a8c0@nevalalaptop> I don't imagine that it was this specifically that got you going in that direction. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Loren H. Burlingame Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 5:49 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] GMail invites I have to admit, I took two... am I going to hell? On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 16:27:13 -0500, Josh Trutwin wrote: > On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 14:48:04 -0500 > Munir Nassar wrote: > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Adam Maloney wrote: > > | First 4 people to e-mail me get an invite. > > > > HAH! > > > > first 6 to email me get an invite! > > That makes about 50 this week I think - are there that many TCLUGers getting gmail accounts? > > Josh > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Loren H. Burlingame GPG Key ID: 0x3EA9CF8F "Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes." -William Shatner (a.k.a. Buck Murdock) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kc0iog at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 18:06:57 2004 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: <20040901162713.00003011@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> References: <41362774.9070008@redconcepts.net> <20040901162713.00003011@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> Message-ID: <2c6699da0409011606524c81f1@mail.gmail.com> And those are just the ones that got posted to the list! :-) Odd question: if we're supposed to be beta testing, why is there no obvious method of submitting feedback to the Gmail developers? -Brian Wall On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 16:27:13 -0500, Josh Trutwin wrote: > On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 14:48:04 -0500 > Munir Nassar wrote: > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Adam Maloney wrote: > > | First 4 people to e-mail me get an invite. > > > > HAH! > > > > first 6 to email me get an invite! > > That makes about 50 this week I think - are there that many TCLUGers getting gmail accounts? > > Josh > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.meier at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 18:10:55 2004 From: john.meier at gmail.com (meierjo) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] auto reboot after kernel panic ?? Message-ID: <65293fcc04090116101de8e0d5@mail.gmail.com> Hi - I'm setting up some partitions RAID 1 on an already existing system using software RAID. I have two identical SCSI disks - one that was all set up and one that is blank. For each partition on the main disk, I made a RAID device on the blank one with a missing disc (the partition on the main disk). Then I copied all the stuffs from the main to the RAIDs, boot off the RAIDs and then reformat main disk, declare it as the missing disc and let it all sync. Anyways..... I'm doing this remotely and reboot from time to time to test stuff out (to check new partitions, mounting of RAID devices, mounting RAID devices as root). I've been using lilo -R a lot to test out new lilo stanzas and kernels etc... but this last reboot when I was testing lilo to boot a RAID device I got a VFS: Cannot open root device "901" or unknown-block(9,1) Please append a correct "root=" boot option Kernel Panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(9,1) the machine just sat there (I was pinging it to watch it go down and waiting for it to come back before sshing to it) and I had to call the location and have someone report the error on the screen and power cycle the beast. Does anyone know of a way (or an option in lilo) to have the machine reboot if it gets stuck in a Panic? . _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mcnixon at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 18:41:32 2004 From: mcnixon at gmail.com (Mike Nixon) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: <2c6699da0409011606524c81f1@mail.gmail.com> References: <41362774.9070008@redconcepts.net> <20040901162713.00003011@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <2c6699da0409011606524c81f1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I wonder if this will be like ICQ's Beta that ran for several years (is it 1.0 yet?) On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 18:06:57 -0500, Brian Wall wrote: > Odd question: if we're supposed to be beta testing, why is there no > obvious method of submitting feedback to the Gmail developers? > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andyzib at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 19:46:29 2004 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] installing an hp 5510 all in one printer In-Reply-To: <41364EF0.1000800@bigfoot.com> References: <41364EF0.1000800@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: Yes switch to CUPS! :) It generally makes printing much easier. http://localhost:631 You should check Linux Printing dot org for info...you might have to search the forums/newsgroups, but here is the direct link to HP printers... http://www.linuxprinting.org/printer_list.cgi?make=HP -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Wed Sep 1 20:18:34 2004 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GMail invites Message-ID: <20040902011834.GA25331@mail.el-swifto.com> I have more invites, contact offlist if interested. -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sraun at fireopal.org Wed Sep 1 20:55:10 2004 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail account length requirement Message-ID: <20040902015510.GC7983@fireopal.org> Can anyone give me a logical explanation as to why gmail accounts have a minimum length of six characters? Accounts must be six to thirty characters. I can see why they're implementing an upper limit - but why the lower? I use sraun. The only place I don't use sraun is work, because they said 'our standard is this, use it' and my bank, which didn't like such a short login id either. For the bank, I grit my teeth and came up with something longer. Gmail is not, at this point, sufficiently tempting to overcome my distaste at not being allowed my favorite userid. -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mcnixon at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 21:23:29 2004 From: mcnixon at gmail.com (Mike Nixon) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail account length requirement In-Reply-To: <20040902015510.GC7983@fireopal.org> References: <20040902015510.GC7983@fireopal.org> Message-ID: Logical no, its in their FAQ on http://gmail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=7993&topic=-1 Studies have shown that short usernames at popular domains receive significantly more spam due to automatic address generation. Gmail's requirement that all usernames be at least six characters in length is meant to keep spam out of your inbox. But what if we want spam ;-) On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 20:55:10 -0500, Scott Raun wrote: > Can anyone give me a logical explanation as to why gmail accounts have > a minimum length of six characters? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jpschewe at mtu.net Wed Sep 1 21:32:55 2004 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sun Optical mouse pad Message-ID: <1094092375.29718.3.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From electrum at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 21:35:10 2004 From: electrum at gmail.com (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail account length requirement In-Reply-To: <20040902015510.GC7983@fireopal.org> References: <20040902015510.GC7983@fireopal.org> Message-ID: <853e1ecc040901193514d6e23a@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 20:55:10 -0500, Scott Raun wrote: > Can anyone give me a logical explanation as to why gmail accounts have > a minimum length of six characters? >From the Gmail Help Center: Why can't I have a shorter username? Studies have shown that short usernames at popular domains receive significantly more spam due to automatic address generation. Gmail's requirement that all usernames be at least six characters in length is meant to keep spam out of your inbox. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dtgm at comcast.net Wed Sep 1 21:39:56 2004 From: dtgm at comcast.net (Adam Shrode) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: <2c6699da0409011606524c81f1@mail.gmail.com> References: <41362774.9070008@redconcepts.net> <20040901162713.00003011@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <2c6699da0409011606524c81f1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <413687FC.2010902@comcast.net> Brian Wall wrote: >And those are just the ones that got posted to the list! :-) > >Odd question: if we're supposed to be beta testing, why is there no >obvious method of submitting feedback to the Gmail developers? > >-Brian Wall > > Probably because it is only meant to hype the product. I'm sure google knows, especially with the services they provide (thinking API here), that google is known primarily in the techie groups more than pop culture. I can also imagine that yahoo, altavista, and lycos are still pretty big in the marketshare. So ... given this, we can assume a geek would rather find it on his own than have it made easy for him. Care to return your geek membership? ;) BTW, it's http://gmail.google.com/support/bin/request.py (POP3!) if you really didn't know, but I'm guessing you already knew this and were just poking humour into our pathetic stereotype. :) Adam Shrode _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jpschewe at mtu.net Wed Sep 1 22:04:37 2004 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Stuff for free Message-ID: <1094094277.29718.15.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kc0iog at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 22:37:17 2004 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: <413687FC.2010902@comcast.net> References: <41362774.9070008@redconcepts.net> <20040901162713.00003011@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <2c6699da0409011606524c81f1@mail.gmail.com> <413687FC.2010902@comcast.net> Message-ID: <2c6699da04090120371f77c773@mail.gmail.com> Adam allegedly stated: > So ... given this, we can assume a geek > would rather find it on his own than have it made easy for him. Care to > return your geek membership? ;) Sorry, I was too busy compiling GmailFS stuff into my kernel to dig around under the help section. Had they labled it "man pages" I probably would have figured to look there. Besides, I see that Opera Support (my complaint) is already on the list. Oh well, gives me another reason to mess with Firefox. -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From electrum at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 23:09:06 2004 From: electrum at gmail.com (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: <2c6699da04090120371f77c773@mail.gmail.com> References: <41362774.9070008@redconcepts.net> <20040901162713.00003011@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <2c6699da0409011606524c81f1@mail.gmail.com> <413687FC.2010902@comcast.net> <2c6699da04090120371f77c773@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <853e1ecc04090121091bf8bc33@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 22:37:17 -0500, Brian Wall wrote: > Besides, I see that Opera Support (my complaint) is already on the list. Blame Opera for not supporting XMLHttpRequest. http://www.scss.com.au/family/andrew/o7/gmail/ -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From markdeb.browne at comcast.net Thu Sep 2 01:08:15 2004 From: markdeb.browne at comcast.net (Mark Browne) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] YAGI (Yet Another batch of Invitations to join theGmail collective) References: <001801c49022$1877aac0$1e02a8c0@zippy><1469cda2040901081128afb50f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <006a01c490b3$3fde5e60$1e02a8c0@zippy> How fast are gmail invites going? I posted six links at 7:53 today. The gmailman told me that they were used at: #1 7:57 #2 8:03 #3 8:05 #4 8:42 #5 8:51 #6 9:03 It would seem that there is still some demand for accounts. Mark Browne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Nixon" To: "Thomas Johnson" ; "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 11:46 AM Subject: Re: Re: [TCLUG] YAGI (Yet Another batch of Invitations to join theGmail collective) Are the Gmail invites still going like hotcakes? I got my invite off ebay last Saturday, and I've got 6 invites ready to go out if people run out of other sources. I assume by now the list is becoming saturated. mcnixon at (I'll let you guess the rest of my address) Mike _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tpenney at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 08:19:35 2004 From: tpenney at gmail.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] YAGI (Yet Another batch of Invitations to join theGmail collective) In-Reply-To: <006a01c490b3$3fde5e60$1e02a8c0@zippy> References: <001801c49022$1877aac0$1e02a8c0@zippy><1469cda2040901081128afb50f@mail.gmail.com> <006a01c490b3$3fde5e60$1e02a8c0@zippy> Message-ID: <5c596d0e040902061976a98b4a@mail.gmail.com> I have 3. writte me if interested tpenney@gmail.com - Tom On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 01:08:15 -0500, Mark Browne wrote: > It would seem that there is still some demand for accounts. > > Mark Browne _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Thu Sep 2 08:29:41 2004 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] auto reboot after kernel panic ?? In-Reply-To: <65293fcc04090116101de8e0d5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Sep 2004, meierjo wrote: > Does anyone know of a way (or an option in lilo) to have the machine > reboot if it gets stuck in a Panic? Normally I'd say to echo a number to /proc/sys/kernel/panic, which will be the number of seconds the system will wait after a panic before rebooting, but that'd generally be set after the RAID subsystem was loaded. A bit of Googling comes up with some people saying that appending "panic=N" to the kernel boot command line will do the same. I just tested this, albeit on a pretty obscure platform (2.6 kernel on sparc32), and it seems to set /proc/sys/kernel/panic properly. Neat. So I'd add: append="panic=60" or such to your lilo.conf. One thing that people seem to warn on the subject is that a panic doesn't always trigger a reboot. It's panicking, after all. But that should help, at the least. Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Thu Sep 2 08:36:28 2004 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] YAGI (Yet Another batch of Invitations to jointheGmail collective) Message-ID: <9E9331A490988842B21E7F7DC254C1D412E3FA@BPEXU3VM2.andersencorp.com> I also have 3, moojuece AT the mail domain mentioned in the title DOT com First 3 emails I get there on this get one.... -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Tom Penney Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 8:20 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: Re: Re: [TCLUG] YAGI (Yet Another batch of Invitations to jointheGmail collective) I have 3. writte me if interested tpenney@gmail.com - Tom On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 01:08:15 -0500, Mark Browne wrote: > It would seem that there is still some demand for accounts. > > Mark Browne _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.meier at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 09:05:29 2004 From: john.meier at gmail.com (meierjo) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: <853e1ecc04090121091bf8bc33@mail.gmail.com> References: <41362774.9070008@redconcepts.net> <20040901162713.00003011@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <2c6699da0409011606524c81f1@mail.gmail.com> <413687FC.2010902@comcast.net> <2c6699da04090120371f77c773@mail.gmail.com> <853e1ecc04090121091bf8bc33@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65293fcc04090207053ea59720@mail.gmail.com> I think I read that the new linux beta 7.60 of opera should support the XMLHttpRequest On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 23:09:06 -0500, David Phillips wrote: > On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 22:37:17 -0500, Brian Wall wrote: > > Besides, I see that Opera Support (my complaint) is already on the list. > > Blame Opera for not supporting XMLHttpRequest. > > http://www.scss.com.au/family/andrew/o7/gmail/ > > -- > David Phillips > http://david.acz.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Thu Sep 2 09:51:00 2004 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] auto reboot after kernel panic ?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41373354.4040901@eworld3.net> Right, there is no point in rebooting unless something changes such that the system does not panic. Is there a way to say "I want to try something, but if that causes a panic then boot a known working system." In this case maybe a CD that has been set up to allow ssh. Jima wrote: > One thing that people seem to warn on the subject is that a panic doesn't > always trigger a reboot. It's panicking, after all. But that should > help, at the least. > > Jima -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tpenney at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 10:25:40 2004 From: tpenney at gmail.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: <65293fcc04090207053ea59720@mail.gmail.com> References: <41362774.9070008@redconcepts.net> <20040901162713.00003011@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <2c6699da0409011606524c81f1@mail.gmail.com> <413687FC.2010902@comcast.net> <2c6699da04090120371f77c773@mail.gmail.com> <853e1ecc04090121091bf8bc33@mail.gmail.com> <65293fcc04090207053ea59720@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5c596d0e04090208251e85d390@mail.gmail.com> one more http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-67664a7825-d9f42f4e9e-c49592fb81 - Tom _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scheides at iexposure.com Thu Sep 2 11:19:52 2004 From: scheides at iexposure.com (Chris Scheidecker) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Rackmount Chassis Message-ID: <200409021119.53110.scheides@iexposure.com> Anyone have a 1, 2, or 4U chassis they'd be willing to let go for relatively cheap? Anything that a atx or micro-atx mobo would fit into, power supply optional. -Chris -- Chris Scheidecker Associate Systems Administrator cscheidecker@iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com 612.676.1946 x33 Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services ------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From james_masters at comcast.net Thu Sep 2 13:51:56 2004 From: james_masters at comcast.net (Jim Masters) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Rackmount Chassis References: <200409021119.53110.scheides@iexposure.com> Message-ID: <001301c4911d$ee235ab0$1900000a@jim1> I have the following, let me know what you want to look at: 1 4U black 1 4U Beige 2 2U VA Linux - 1 works, 1 is parts (basically good cases if you want to replace Motherboard/CPU's) 2 2U (From a company called Telenet, both work, but could replace systems) 1 1U (not a likely canidate for gutting as its a dual P3 866 system) Let me know what your interested in. I have some pics of them that I can send as well. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Scheidecker" To: Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 11:19 AM Subject: [TCLUG] Rackmount Chassis > Anyone have a 1, 2, or 4U chassis they'd be willing to let go for relatively > cheap? Anything that a atx or micro-atx mobo would fit into, power supply > optional. > > -Chris > > -- > Chris Scheidecker > Associate Systems Administrator > cscheidecker@iexposure.com > Internet Exposure, Inc. > http://www.iexposure.com > > 612.676.1946 x33 > Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services > ------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From minnesotan at runbox.com Thu Sep 2 14:47:59 2004 From: minnesotan at runbox.com (Randy Burns) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GMail invites In-Reply-To: <5c596d0e04090208251e85d390@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040902194759.29508.qmail@web50908.mail.yahoo.com> There's also, http://www.gmx.net/de/produkte/mail/freemail/index.html with a free GB of storage, if you can navigate the German instructions. :-) Randy --- Tom Penney wrote: > one more > > http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-67664a7825-d9f42f4e9e-c49592fb81 > > - Tom > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rotbau at squishnet.com Thu Sep 2 15:40:42 2004 From: rotbau at squishnet.com (rotbau@squishnet.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Qmail mailer-daemon mail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1094157642.4137854adf6e5@www.squishnet.com> > From: David Phillips > You probably have a .qmail-default file in ~/alias that is delivering > mail to you. Create a .qmail-mailer-daemon file in ~/alias with a > single #. Alright, I tried this last night. I do not have a .qmail-default in my alias directory. I changed the .qmail-mailer-daemon file in alias to be just a single # but that didn't work either. I have also tried /dev/null in that file but same results. By the way I have restarted qmail after each change so I don't think that is the problem. > From: Adam Maloney > If you just want to stop these particular messages, try googling around > for qmail and "double bounce", which is the sendmail nomenclature for the > bounce-of-a-bounce message. I googled for bounce bounce and found reference to a /qmail/control/doublebounce file. It suggests putting a name in that file (exaple used doublebounce)which references a .qmail file (for example doublebounce). Create the .qmail file .qmail-doublebounce and either add a use that you want the mail to go to or leave it completely blank for qmail to drop them completely. I haven't had a chance to try it yet but it sounds promising. I'll let you know. Thanks. regards rotbau _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jsievert at jsievert.net Thu Sep 2 16:23:32 2004 From: jsievert at jsievert.net (Jason Sievert) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache2 Auth Basic Message-ID: <200409021623.32825.jsievert@jsievert.net> Hey guys, I am trying to get webdav to work with ssl. I am trying to use the Auth Basic and it is just forbiding me outright. Here is a excerpt from my conf file. Alias /webdav /var/www/webdav DAV on AuthType Basic AuthName "WebDAV Storage" AuthUserFile conf/htpasswd/passwd Require valid-user And the log message that I get. [Thu Sep 02 16:10:24 2004] [error] [client 216.243.186.32] client denied by server configuration: /var/www/webdav/jsievert/test What else am I missing or what else do you guys want to see? Thanks, Jason _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lists at gahlon.com Thu Sep 2 16:44:08 2004 From: lists at gahlon.com (Christopher A. Gahlon) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache2 Auth Basic In-Reply-To: <200409021623.32825.jsievert@jsievert.net> References: <200409021623.32825.jsievert@jsievert.net> Message-ID: <200409021644.08260.lists@gahlon.com> On Thursday 02 September 2004 16:23, Jason Sievert wrote: > Alias /webdav /var/www/webdav > > DAV on > AuthType Basic > AuthName "WebDAV Storage" > AuthUserFile conf/htpasswd/passwd > Require valid-user > I think you need the line to read: Or use the " directive. is for, well... Directories in your file system. is for locations in the URL... This might help: http://www.webdav.org/mod_dav/install.html#apache Cheers -- Christopher A. Gahlon There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those that understand binary and those that don't. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From slushpupie at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 19:36:28 2004 From: slushpupie at gmail.com (slushpupie@gmail.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gallery Problem Message-ID: I know a lot of people on this list run the PHP app Gallery, so you might find this interesting: http://gallery.menalto.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=134&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0 http://www.securityfocus.com/archive/1/373939 Here is a basic summary: Synopsis ======== The Gallery image upload code contains a temporary file handling vulnerability which could lead to execution of arbitrary commands. Vulnerable: < 1.4.4 Dont panic, you have to have a slightly unusual configuration to be really affected by this. *the Attacker has upload rights to an album (either via EVERYBODY, or other rights) *your Gallery temp directory is located inside the webroot. (Unusual, but not that out of the ordinary) *URL wrappers are enabled *Gallery is in debug/devMode or PHP is set to always display error messages -- Jay Kline http://www.slushpupie.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lug at hentzenwerke.com Thu Sep 2 19:52:20 2004 From: lug at hentzenwerke.com (Whil Hentzen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Want Linux newbie session topics and materials from MLUG? In-Reply-To: <67f3084a04083001594ed5e539@mail.gmail.com> References: <200408292205.22552.lug@hentzenwerke.com> <67f3084a04083001594ed5e539@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200409021952.20739.lug@hentzenwerke.com> On Monday 30 August 2004 03:59, Shawn Fertch wrote: > Sounds good to me Whil. Always nice to have some basic information to > go over and pick new things up. Okey doke. I'll put y'all on the distro list. -- Whil Moving to Linux: Freedom, Choice, Security, Opportunity http://www.hentzenwerke.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cdf123 at cdf123.net Thu Sep 2 21:19:45 2004 From: cdf123 at cdf123.net (Chris Frederick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] /proc/cpuinfo is wrong Message-ID: <4137D4C1.7030705@cdf123.net> Can anybody explain how /proc/cpuinfo could report the wrong clock speed on your processor? I did some tweaking on my laptop recently to turn off power-saving because the cpu was reported at ~750Mhz on a P3 1.13Ghz. The power saving level in acpi was always set to C2 so I hard coded the kernel source to always set C1. Upon reboot of the new kernel, the clock speed was shown as ~320-340Mhz. But the machine was still just as fast as always. I figured it was something I screwed up, but I can check it now and it's back to 750Mhz. I would have left it as a screwup on my part still, but on a whim I happened to check the file on my gateway server, it also showed ~350Mhz, but it's a 800Mhz Athlon, with no ACPI/APM/Trottling/etc at all. I also checked an old HP laptop at work and it showed ~320Mhz, but it should be a P3 700Mhz. My server and laptop are both running vanilla kernels 2.6.7. The work laptop is running 2.6.3. I know the /proc/cpuinfo reading is wrong, there is simply no way a system running at ~300Mhz can play a 1.5Gig DivX dvd-riped avi file at 1600x1200 res at full speed. I don't even think Linux is THAT fast. Anyone got a clue on what could be causing these to be off? It's not real important, like I said there's no change in the performance, but I'm going to be getting some parts soon to build a dual Xeon cpu and I'd like to see the dual cpu + hyperthreading specs so I can drool at them. :) Thanks all Chris Frederick _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Thu Sep 2 21:45:18 2004 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] /proc/cpuinfo is wrong In-Reply-To: <4137D4C1.7030705@cdf123.net> References: <4137D4C1.7030705@cdf123.net> Message-ID: <20040903024518.GC2829@momentum.poptix.net> Speedstep? Install a 2.6.x kernel, turn on speedstep, watch the speed change in /proc/cpufreq(?) as the load changes. On Thu, Sep 02, 2004 at 09:19:45PM -0500, Chris Frederick wrote: > Can anybody explain how /proc/cpuinfo could report the wrong clock speed [snip] -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rsinland at gvtel.com Fri Sep 3 08:08:52 2004 From: rsinland at gvtel.com (Robert Sinland) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] /proc/cpuinfo is wrong In-Reply-To: <4137D4C1.7030705@cdf123.net> References: <4137D4C1.7030705@cdf123.net> Message-ID: <41386CE4.6030106@gvtel.com> Chris Frederick wrote: > Can anybody explain how /proc/cpuinfo could report the wrong clock > speed on your processor? I did some tweaking on my laptop recently to > turn off power-saving because the cpu was reported at ~750Mhz on a P3 > 1.13Ghz. The power saving level in acpi was always set to C2 so I > hard coded the kernel source to always set C1. Upon reboot of the new > kernel, the clock speed was shown as ~320-340Mhz. But the machine was > still just as fast as always. I figured it was something I screwed > up, but I can check it now and it's back to 750Mhz. I would have left > it as a screwup on my part still, but on a whim I happened to check > the file on my gateway server, it also showed ~350Mhz, but it's a > 800Mhz Athlon, with no ACPI/APM/Trottling/etc at all. I also checked > an old HP laptop at work and it showed ~320Mhz, but it should be a P3 > 700Mhz. > > My server and laptop are both running vanilla kernels 2.6.7. The work > laptop is running 2.6.3. I know the /proc/cpuinfo reading is wrong, > there is simply no way a system running at ~300Mhz can play a 1.5Gig > DivX dvd-riped avi file at 1600x1200 res at full speed. I don't even > think Linux is THAT fast. > > Anyone got a clue on what could be causing these to be off? It's not > real important, like I said there's no change in the performance, but > I'm going to be getting some parts soon to build a dual Xeon cpu and > I'd like to see the dual cpu + hyperthreading specs so I can drool at > them. :) > > Thanks all > > Chris Frederick > > _______________________________________________ This is just a random brain fart as I'm tired and have some beers in me. I think it might be reporting the front side bus speed instead of the actuall CPU speed. Something along that line anyway, might have my terms confused this morning... RS -- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 7.0.262 / Virus Database: 264.7.6 - Release Date: 9/2/2004 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From homebrewmike at yahoo.com Fri Sep 3 11:37:23 2004 From: homebrewmike at yahoo.com (Mike White) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Two more gmail accounts Message-ID: <20040903163723.81786.qmail@web51102.mail.yahoo.com> Linux Rocks (you know, to stay on topic.) http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-2d0be7344a-5ac3e3eb46-4d8d01d516 http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-2d0be7344a-70b9d7aafd-f7dc1f139f _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jwickard at gmail.com Fri Sep 3 12:32:15 2004 From: jwickard at gmail.com (Joel Wickard) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian question Message-ID: <3f0ccce00409031032c952efb@mail.gmail.com> Does anyone know exactly why debian kicks so much ass? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at poptix.net Thu Sep 2 21:45:19 2004 From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] /proc/cpuinfo is wrong In-Reply-To: <4137D4C1.7030705@cdf123.net> References: <4137D4C1.7030705@cdf123.net> Message-ID: <20040903024518.GC2829@momentum.poptix.net> Speedstep? Install a 2.6.x kernel, turn on speedstep, watch the speed change in /proc/cpufreq(?) as the load changes. On Thu, Sep 02, 2004 at 09:19:45PM -0500, Chris Frederick wrote: > Can anybody explain how /proc/cpuinfo could report the wrong clock speed [snip] -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hpenner at gmail.com Fri Sep 3 12:43:19 2004 From: hpenner at gmail.com (Harry Penner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian question In-Reply-To: <3f0ccce00409031032c952efb@mail.gmail.com> References: <3f0ccce00409031032c952efb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <822221bb040903104374b9dad@mail.gmail.com> Mod: +4, flamebait :D On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 12:32:15 -0500, Joel Wickard wrote: > Does anyone know exactly why debian kicks so much ass? > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Fri Sep 3 12:45:52 2004 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian question In-Reply-To: <3f0ccce00409031032c952efb@mail.gmail.com> References: <3f0ccce00409031032c952efb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040903174552.GB28251@fandre.com> http://twiki.iwethey.org/Main/WhyDebianRocks On Fri, 03 Sep 2004, Joel Wickard wrote: > Does anyone know exactly why debian kicks so much ass? > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dru at druswanderings.net Fri Sep 3 12:53:32 2004 From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian question In-Reply-To: <3f0ccce00409031032c952efb@mail.gmail.com> References: <3f0ccce00409031032c952efb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4138AF9C.4030806@druswanderings.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andyzib at gmail.com Fri Sep 3 12:54:06 2004 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian question In-Reply-To: <822221bb040903104374b9dad@mail.gmail.com> References: <3f0ccce00409031032c952efb@mail.gmail.com> <822221bb040903104374b9dad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Because apt-get dist-upgrade kicks the crap out of burning CDs and reinstalling your OS to get the lastest version of the distribution? :) -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jethro at freakzilla.com Fri Sep 3 12:53:34 2004 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian question In-Reply-To: <3f0ccce00409031032c952efb@mail.gmail.com> References: <3f0ccce00409031032c952efb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Sep 2004, Joel Wickard wrote: > Does anyone know exactly why debian kicks so much ass? Traction. -Yaron -- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erikerik at gmail.com Fri Sep 3 13:01:14 2004 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian question In-Reply-To: References: <3f0ccce00409031032c952efb@mail.gmail.com> <822221bb040903104374b9dad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 12:54:06 -0500, Andrew Zbikowski wrote: > Because apt-get dist-upgrade kicks the crap out of burning CDs and > reinstalling your OS to get the lastest version of the distribution? > :) How about emerge -uD world??? /me ducks... :-) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Fri Sep 3 13:02:46 2004 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian question In-Reply-To: <3f0ccce00409031032c952efb@mail.gmail.com> References: <3f0ccce00409031032c952efb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040903180246.GA11992@refried.org> On Fri, Sep 03, 2004 at 12:32:15PM -0500, Joel Wickard wrote: > Does anyone know exactly why debian kicks so much ass? IMNSHO: - apt-get - large package selection - apt-get - local mirror - small initial install - all build and development tools are packaged - easy to rebuild packages with modifications - don't need to worry about which version of dpkg you have installed - apt-get Did I miss anything? ;) Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hpenner at gmail.com Fri Sep 3 13:09:49 2004 From: hpenner at gmail.com (Harry Penner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian question In-Reply-To: References: <3f0ccce00409031032c952efb@mail.gmail.com> <822221bb040903104374b9dad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <822221bb0409031109204a176c@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 13:01:14 -0500, Erik Anderson wrote: > On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 12:54:06 -0500, Andrew Zbikowski wrote: > > Because apt-get dist-upgrade kicks the crap out of burning CDs and > > reinstalling your OS to get the lastest version of the distribution? > > :) > > How about emerge -uD world??? > /me ducks... Try it! You should have your answer in a few days... O:D _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erikerik at gmail.com Fri Sep 3 13:13:15 2004 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian question In-Reply-To: <822221bb0409031109204a176c@mail.gmail.com> References: <3f0ccce00409031032c952efb@mail.gmail.com> <822221bb040903104374b9dad@mail.gmail.com> <822221bb0409031109204a176c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 13:09:49 -0500, Harry Penner wrote: > > Try it! You should have your answer in a few days... > > Haha - good point, though most of the servers I run genoo on are dual 2.4 Xeons, so it's not too painful...I'm to the point now that I can do a full stage 1 install of gentoo in about 2.5 hours. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jethro at freakzilla.com Fri Sep 3 13:26:34 2004 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] NFS kernel panicing on 2.6.8? Message-ID: Hey, Anyone else having severe kernel panics when trying to do stuff over NFS? I can do directory listings, but if I try to actually ACCESS a file, I get the mess below. This is on 2.6.8 on a debian box... my other machines (which are all 2.6.something on debian) are fine. The NFS server is an old Red Hat. (Yeah, I'm going to check if the kernel build was ok, but I figured I'd ask first so that I end up being embaressed). -Yaron -- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jethro at freakzilla.com Fri Sep 3 13:28:46 2004 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] NFS kernel panicing on 2.6.8? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh, I forgot to include "The Mess Below"... Here it is: Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: Unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at virtual address 00000014 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: printing eip: Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: c01be6ae Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: *pde = 00000000 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: Oops: 0002 [#1] Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: PREEMPT Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: Modules linked in: nvidia vmnet vmmon w83627hf eeprom i2c_sensor i2c_isa i2c_nf orce2 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: CPU: 0 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: EIP: 0060:[] Tainted: P Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: EFLAGS: 00010246 (2.6.8) Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: EIP is at nfs_request_init+0x1e/0x30 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: eax: 00000000 ebx: dc014620 ecx: 00000000 edx: dffb6b80 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: esi: c133c980 edi: dc014620 ebp: d79b8000 esp: d79b9bf0 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: ds: 007b es: 007b ss: 0068 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: Process feh (pid: 1558, threadinfo=d79b8000 task=c5569220) Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: Stack: d9afb1fc c3a28e20 dc014620 c01bcaa6 dc014620 c3a28e20 dffb6b80 00000000 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: 00000001 00000004 00000002 c133c980 00001000 d9afb1fc 00000000 c01bf774 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: c3a28e20 d9afb1fc c133c980 00000000 00001000 00000000 d79b9ce8 c133c998 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: Call Trace: Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: [] nfs_create_request+0xa6/0xe0 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: [] readpage_async_filler+0x94/0x150 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: [] read_cache_pages+0xc9/0x150 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: [] __ide_dma_begin+0x36/0x50 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: [] nfs_readpages+0x62/0xd0 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: [] readpage_async_filler+0x0/0x150 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: [] read_pages+0x134/0x140 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: [] __alloc_pages+0x300/0x380 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: [] ext3_mark_iloc_dirty+0x28/0x40 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: [] do_page_cache_readahead+0x104/0x190 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: [] page_cache_readahead+0x103/0x1f0 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: [] do_generic_mapping_read+0xf7/0x4c0 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: [] __generic_file_aio_read+0x1f5/0x230 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: [] file_read_actor+0x0/0x100 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: [] generic_file_aio_read+0x5a/0x80 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: [] nfs_file_read+0xa5/0xf0 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: [] do_sync_read+0x84/0xb0 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: [] vma_link+0x60/0x100 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: [] vfs_read+0xb8/0x130 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: [] sys_read+0x51/0x80 Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: [] syscall_call+0x7/0xb Sep 3 13:17:10 dragon kernel: Code: ff 40 14 89 43 18 8b 5c 24 08 83 c4 0c c3 8d 74 26 00 8b 4c -Yaron -- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Fri Sep 3 13:29:41 2004 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] NFS kernel panicing on 2.6.8? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4138B815.9070306@redconcepts.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Fri Sep 3 13:40:32 2004 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] NFS kernel panicing on 2.6.8? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Sep 2004, Yaron wrote: > Anyone else having severe kernel panics when trying to do stuff over > NFS? I can do directory listings, but if I try to actually ACCESS a > file, I get the mess below. This is on 2.6.8 on a debian box... my other > machines (which are all 2.6.something on debian) are fine. The NFS > server is an old Red Hat. 2.6.8, or 2.6.8.1? 2.6.8.1 was released right after 2.6.8 to fix some very serious kernel bugs with NFS. > (Yeah, I'm going to check if the kernel build was ok, but I figured I'd > ask first so that I end up being embaressed). -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at nomeaning.net Fri Sep 3 13:46:53 2004 From: tclug at nomeaning.net (Eric Lambart) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian question In-Reply-To: <20040903180246.GA11992@refried.org> References: <3f0ccce00409031032c952efb@mail.gmail.com> <20040903180246.GA11992@refried.org> Message-ID: <1094237213.3535.15.camel@wkstn1> On Fri, 2004-09-03 at 13:02 -0500, nate@refried.org wrote: > On Fri, Sep 03, 2004 at 12:32:15PM -0500, Joel Wickard wrote: > > Does anyone know exactly why debian kicks so much ass? > > IMNSHO: > - apt-get Of course, users of RPM-based systems can now share in the immense pleasure of apt-get as well: https://moin.conectiva.com.br/AptRpm (etc.) It certainly makes my life easier... Hello to all by the way, I am a recent escapee from California. Arrived in Minneapolis a few weeks ago, just signed up to the list today. Eric Lambart -- This message was created in a Microsoft-free computing environment. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jwickard at gmail.com Fri Sep 3 14:02:23 2004 From: jwickard at gmail.com (Joel Wickard) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian question In-Reply-To: <1094237213.3535.15.camel@wkstn1> References: <3f0ccce00409031032c952efb@mail.gmail.com> <20040903180246.GA11992@refried.org> <1094237213.3535.15.camel@wkstn1> Message-ID: <3f0ccce004090312027e93ea68@mail.gmail.com> > Hello to all by the way, I am a recent escapee from California. Arrived > in Minneapolis a few weeks ago, just signed up to the list today. > > Eric Lambart welcome sir. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Fri Sep 3 14:12:18 2004 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian question In-Reply-To: <1094237213.3535.15.camel@wkstn1> References: <3f0ccce00409031032c952efb@mail.gmail.com> <20040903180246.GA11992@refried.org> <1094237213.3535.15.camel@wkstn1> Message-ID: <20040903191218.GA13463@refried.org> On Fri, Sep 03, 2004 at 01:46:53PM -0500, Eric Lambart wrote: > On Fri, 2004-09-03 at 13:02 -0500, nate@refried.org wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 03, 2004 at 12:32:15PM -0500, Joel Wickard wrote: > > > Does anyone know exactly why debian kicks so much ass? > > > > IMNSHO: > > - apt-get > > Of course, users of RPM-based systems can now share in the immense > pleasure of apt-get as well: > > https://moin.conectiva.com.br/AptRpm (etc.) > > It certainly makes my life easier... Easier, but it's still not the same. The Debian package repository is much better maintained than many of the RPM based distros. Trying to paste apt-rpm on the a Redhat distro usually calls for some hand holding until the database is in a state that apt-get will not complain about. > Hello to all by the way, I am a recent escapee from California. Arrived > in Minneapolis a few weeks ago, just signed up to the list today. Welcome to Minnesota. I hope you didn't miss the week of summer we get each year. ;) Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From veldy at veldy.net Fri Sep 3 14:32:33 2004 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] NFS kernel panicing on 2.6.8? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4138C6D1.2000902@veldy.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From veldy at veldy.net Fri Sep 3 14:32:33 2004 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] NFS kernel panicing on 2.6.8? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4138C6D1.2000902@veldy.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Fri Sep 3 14:46:07 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: IBM Thinkpad power adapter recall Message-ID: <20040903144607.A25618@thinkunix.net> Saw this and thought I'd pass it along: If your power adapter part# is 02K6549, better get a replacment http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=581&e=3&u=/nm/20040902/tc_nm/tech_ibm_recall_dc -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Fri Sep 3 14:50:32 2004 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wanted: used 17" monitors? Message-ID: <4138CB08.5040603@tc-tech.com> Hi folks, I've bought monitors from sam before, and they were a great bargain, and now I'm looking for more. I'm hoping to find two used 17" monitors for bargain prices, does anyone have something lying around? Thanks! -- Matt Murphy TC Tech _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.meier at gmail.com Fri Sep 3 15:29:06 2004 From: john.meier at gmail.com (meierjo) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Software RAID 1 and mount point not found error Message-ID: <65293fcc04090313292fabc27@mail.gmail.com> Hi all- Been messing with setting up software RAID1 on a existing install and doing it all remotely. I've been stuck on one point in the process and it's got me stumped. I'm hoping someone may have an idea or a thought to push me in a new direction. Here's the story so far: 2 9Gb SCSI disks - sda and sdb. sda was set up like so: Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System (/boot) /dev/sda1 * 1 5 40131 83 Linux (swap) /dev/sda2 6 130 1004062+ 82 Linux swap (/) /dev/sda3 131 143 104422+ 83 Linux /dev/sda4 144 1106 7735297+ 5 Extended (/usr) /dev/sda5 144 393 2008093+ 83 Linux (/home) /dev/sda6 394 892 4008186 83 Linux (/var) /dev/sda7 893 1017 1004031 83 Linux (/usr/local) /dev/sda8 1018 1080 506016 83 Linux (/tmp) /dev/sda9 1081 1106 208813+ 83 Linux THe system was in use for a while and then the call came in to RAID 1 all the partitions. I recompiled the kernel etc and then copied the partitions from a to b > sfdisk -d /dev/sda | sfdisk /dev/sdb Then setup RAID and declared disk one missing and disk two to be sdb: > mdadm --create /dev/md0 --level=1 --raid-disks=2 missing /dev/sdb1 > mdadm --create /dev/md1 --level=1 --raid-disks=2 missing /dev/sdb3 > mdadm --create /dev/md2 --level=1 --raid-disks=2 missing /dev/sdb5 > mdadm --create /dev/md3 --level=1 --raid-disks=2 missing /dev/sdb6 > mdadm --create /dev/md4 --level=1 --raid-disks=2 missing /dev/sdb7 > mdadm --create /dev/md5 --level=1 --raid-disks=2 missing /dev/sdb8 > mdadm --create /dev/md6 --level=1 --raid-disks=2 missing /dev/sdb9 Then format: mkfs.ext3 /dev/md0 (or ext2) for each new raid device Then mount up each raid device in /mnt and copy appropriate data over: cp -axu /boot /mnt/md0 cp -axu / /mnt/md1 cp -axu /usr /mnt/md2 cp -axu /home /mnt/md3 cp -axu /var /mnt/md4 cp -axu /usr/local /mnt/md5 cp -axu /tmp /mnt/md6 At this point I modified sda3's fstab to mount the raid device on boot and rebooted - everything is cool so far.... Next a new lilo stanza to mount md1 as root: image = /boot/kernel-2.6.8.1-RAID-smp root = /dev/md1 label = RAIDTEST read-only append="doscsi panic=5" and modify md1's /etc/fstab to mount /dev/md1 as /: reboot and things are ok... then I take it a step further and edit the /etc/fstab on /dev/md1 to mount all my new RAID devices /dev/md1 - /dev/md6 At this point the system comes up but /usr and all the other mount (excapt for /) would mount - I get the error: /usr mount point not found. A double and triple check says /usr is there and ready to be mounted.... any ideas? or thoughts on this process.... THis is my first attempt to RAID anything with software raid - so be gentle :) thanks _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Fri Sep 3 18:08:29 2004 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dell 1750 not booting -- need suggestions Message-ID: Hey everyone, I've got a Dell 1750 server running Debian that we use here at school. It's a dual-Xeon box with RAID. I decided to give a 2.6 kernel a try on this server so I built the kernel and configured lilo.conf to boot the new kernel. Actually, I used Debian's make-kpkg tool to do most of the heavy lifting. Having learned my lesson many years ago when I built my first custom kernel, I made sure that the old working kernel was still an option in my LILO config. Unfortunately, neither kernel boots now. I'm getting: VFS: Cannot open root device "sda1" or 08:01 Please append a correct "root=" boot option Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 08:01 I'd put a different "root=" boot option in there, but I'm not sure which partition holds the root. My install notes are nowhere to be found, and I'm not even sure that this machine uses the standard /dev/sdax naming given that's it's using a RAID controller. Anyone have a suggestion? I'm at a loss right now. -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.meier at gmail.com Fri Sep 3 18:48:33 2004 From: john.meier at gmail.com (meierjo) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dell 1750 not booting -- need suggestions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <65293fcc04090316484e2759ff@mail.gmail.com> software RAID? If so did you compile the Kernel with RAID support? if hardware Raid - same question - drivers for the hw compiled into the kernel???? my raid devices are /dev/md0, md1 ..... i'll keep thinking and post more .... On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 18:08:29 -0500, Tim Wilson wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I've got a Dell 1750 server running Debian that we use here at school. It's > a dual-Xeon box with RAID. > > I decided to give a 2.6 kernel a try on this server so I built the kernel > and configured lilo.conf to boot the new kernel. Actually, I used Debian's > make-kpkg tool to do most of the heavy lifting. Having learned my lesson > many years ago when I built my first custom kernel, I made sure that the old > working kernel was still an option in my LILO config. > > Unfortunately, neither kernel boots now. I'm getting: > > VFS: Cannot open root device "sda1" or 08:01 > Please append a correct "root=" boot option > Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 08:01 > > I'd put a different "root=" boot option in there, but I'm not sure which > partition holds the root. My install notes are nowhere to be found, and I'm > not even sure that this machine uses the standard /dev/sdax naming given > that's it's using a RAID controller. > > Anyone have a suggestion? I'm at a loss right now. > > -Tim > > -- > Tim Wilson > Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA > Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy > mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at askewview.net Fri Sep 3 19:04:21 2004 From: adam at askewview.net (Adam) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dell 1750 not booting -- need suggestions In-Reply-To: <65293fcc04090316484e2759ff@mail.gmail.com> References: <65293fcc04090316484e2759ff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <41390685.70106@askewview.net> What kind of RAID controller is it? My dell poweredge 2400 has a AMI PERC2/DC raid card in it and a vanilla kernel on gentoo sees it as /dev/sda. I'd double check to make sure you have the driver for the controller compiled into the kernel. Adam meierjo wrote: >software RAID? If so did you compile the Kernel with RAID support? > > >if hardware Raid - same question - drivers for the hw compiled into >the kernel???? > > >my raid devices are /dev/md0, md1 ..... > >i'll keep thinking and post more .... > > >On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 18:08:29 -0500, Tim Wilson wrote: > > >>Hey everyone, >> >>I've got a Dell 1750 server running Debian that we use here at school. It's >>a dual-Xeon box with RAID. >> >>I decided to give a 2.6 kernel a try on this server so I built the kernel >>and configured lilo.conf to boot the new kernel. Actually, I used Debian's >>make-kpkg tool to do most of the heavy lifting. Having learned my lesson >>many years ago when I built my first custom kernel, I made sure that the old >>working kernel was still an option in my LILO config. >> >>Unfortunately, neither kernel boots now. I'm getting: >> >>VFS: Cannot open root device "sda1" or 08:01 >>Please append a correct "root=" boot option >>Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 08:01 >> >>I'd put a different "root=" boot option in there, but I'm not sure which >>partition holds the root. My install notes are nowhere to be found, and I'm >>not even sure that this machine uses the standard /dev/sdax naming given >>that's it's using a RAID controller. >> >>Anyone have a suggestion? I'm at a loss right now. >> >>-Tim >> >>-- >>Tim Wilson >>Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA >>Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy >>mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >>tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jkjones at tcq.net Fri Sep 3 19:46:38 2004 From: jkjones at tcq.net (Kraig Jones) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Prism54 (Was kernel 2.6 ready for prime time?) In-Reply-To: References: <20040826154114.000038b0@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <412E5889.4060302@tcq.net> <4133F368.6040306@tcq.net> <4135DEEE.9090102@tcq.net> Message-ID: <4139106E.6030509@tcq.net> Andrew Zbikowski wrote: >Ah...well prism54 won't work on (stock) Woody. If you don't want to >make the leap to sarge, your best bet would be to add: > >deb http://www.backports.org/debian stable kernel-2.6 pcmcia-cs > >apt-get update && apt-get upgrade > >Things might start working...not sure. I'm just guessing, I don't have >a woody box to play with. :) > > Well, I'm making small steps forward -- and giant steps back. I ran the update and upgrade, and then a dist upgrade... nothing made much difference as far as getting the wireless card to work. I think now I had sarge all along, and had upgraded from kernel 2.4 to 2.6 somewhere along the way. So I just thought -- start over. Reloaded everything from a CD "sarge-i386-netinst.iso (beta 4)". The base system works OK, but I lost all the x-window and KDE stuff. Tried again, using the "testing (beta 3)" CD that I had originally used to set up three Debian boxes, where all the pretty stuff worked right away. Now it isn't there. Maybe the installer and the current package use different names now? And I now know that the wireless card (Netgear WG511) is good: works OK with Windows on the same laptop. Kraig _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Fri Sep 3 19:41:52 2004 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dell 1750 not booting -- need suggestions In-Reply-To: <41390685.70106@askewview.net> Message-ID: On 9/3/04 7:04 PM, "Adam" wrote: > What kind of RAID controller is it? My dell poweredge 2400 has a AMI > PERC2/DC raid card in it and a vanilla kernel on gentoo sees it as > /dev/sda. I'd double check to make sure you have the driver for the > controller compiled into the kernel. Aha! I've got it whooped. It turns out that in the installation process for the new kernel image that I created. A previous (and failed) attempt to compile a kernel for this machine was installed as LinuxOLD (the one that's supposed to work) alongside my new one. The result was that I had two kernels that didn't work available to me. The proper driver wasn't installed in the kernel so that's why it couldn't see the RAID array. The solution was to boot the custom Debian install CD with the correct drivers on it. I typed the following at the install cd prompt # rescue root=/dev/sda3 That install CD then booted up the system and all daemons started up properly. I fixed /etc/lilo.conf and all is well. Whew! Thanks for the help. -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From markdeb.browne at comcast.net Fri Sep 3 20:06:09 2004 From: markdeb.browne at comcast.net (Mark Browne) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Best Distro for AMD 64 Message-ID: <000901c4921b$61d2e540$1e02a8c0@zippy> We have a new member in the family - I have my new Compaq SA4000Z sitting in the shipping box in my dining room as I type this. I can sense that it *really* wants to come out and play. I am controlling myself and planning out the hardware, apps, games and utilities as part of setting it up. Then comes the fun of rounding up the install disks and fetching updated drivers as needed. Naturally, this process will include one of the many Linux distros. I need it to dual boot / co-reside with Win-XP pro. Any comments on which distro best supports the Athlon 64 today? BTW - it has an NVIDIA gforce graphics card, and Sound Blaster audigy sound, if that matters. I am partial to Mandrake but I really want to see what a 64 bit box can do! Mark Browne _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Fri Sep 3 20:49:19 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dell 1750 not booting -- need suggestions In-Reply-To: ; from wilson@visi.com on Fri, Sep 03, 2004 at 07:41:52PM -0500 References: <41390685.70106@askewview.net> Message-ID: <20040903204919.A6090@thinkunix.net> Tim Wilson wrote: > Aha! I've got it whooped. > > It turns out that in the installation process for the new kernel image that > I created. A previous (and failed) attempt to compile a kernel for this > machine was installed as LinuxOLD (the one that's supposed to work) > alongside my new one. The result was that I had two kernels that didn't work > available to me. The proper driver wasn't installed in the kernel so that's > why it couldn't see the RAID array. > > The solution was to boot the custom Debian install CD with the correct > drivers on it. I typed the following at the install cd prompt > > # rescue root=/dev/sda3 > > That install CD then booted up the system and all daemons started up > properly. I fixed /etc/lilo.conf and all is well. A late reply here, but I've found having a Knoppix cdrom can be really handy for identifying hardware (such as your raid controller) or for figuring out which partition is the / (root) partition. -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From silwenae at silwenae.com Fri Sep 3 21:15:45 2004 From: silwenae at silwenae.com (Paul Cutler) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] One last Gmail invite Message-ID: <1094264145.4896.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> One last Gmail invite left, first come, first serve: http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-a543c2e6e2-ea7c3019a7-1f0de2368a --paul _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From silwenae at silwenae.com Fri Sep 3 21:14:43 2004 From: silwenae at silwenae.com (Paul Cutler) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Best Distro for AMD 64 In-Reply-To: <000901c4921b$61d2e540$1e02a8c0@zippy> References: <000901c4921b$61d2e540$1e02a8c0@zippy> Message-ID: <1094264083.4896.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mandrake is the only 64 bit version I haven't tried. Well, I haven't tried Suse, but I have the discs for it. Both Gentoo and Fedora Core 2 worked like a champ for me. Gentoo initially had more packages available, but FC2 caught up pretty fast, and Dag's Apt repository has a nice selection now. Nvidia drivers worked like a champ. --paul On Fri, 2004-09-03 at 20:06, Mark Browne wrote: > We have a new member in the family - I have my new Compaq SA4000Z sitting in > the shipping box in my dining room as I type this. > > I can sense that it *really* wants to come out and play. > > I am controlling myself and planning out the hardware, apps, games and > utilities as part of setting it up. > Then comes the fun of rounding up the install disks and fetching updated > drivers as needed. > > Naturally, this process will include one of the many Linux distros. > I need it to dual boot / co-reside with Win-XP pro. > > Any comments on which distro best supports the Athlon 64 today? > BTW - it has an NVIDIA gforce graphics card, and Sound Blaster audigy sound, > if that matters. > I am partial to Mandrake but I really want to see what a 64 bit box can do! > > Mark Browne > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From extrinsik at earthlink.net Fri Sep 3 21:42:24 2004 From: extrinsik at earthlink.net (extrinsik) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] One last Gmail invite In-Reply-To: <1094264145.4896.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1094264145.4896.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <41392B90.5080602@earthlink.net> Paul Cutler wrote: >One last Gmail invite left, first come, first serve: > >http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-a543c2e6e2-ea7c3019a7-1f0de2368a > >--paul > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > Thank you Paul :) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Fri Sep 3 22:36:20 2004 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dell 1750 not booting -- need suggestions In-Reply-To: <20040903204919.A6090@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: On 9/3/04 8:49 PM, "Scot Jenkins" wrote: > A late reply here, but I've found having a Knoppix cdrom can be really > handy for identifying hardware (such as your raid controller) or for > figuring out which partition is the / (root) partition. Unfortunately in my case, the Knoppix CD I used didn't seem to detect the RAID hardware in this system. It didn't do much good. On a related note... The Knoppix CD does a fantastic job of setting up a text-only environment with perfectly sized text, good color combinations, and a VESA framebuffer. How can I figure out the settings that Knoppix is using so I can apply them to this server? Setting up a nice text-only environment isn't something I've delved into much before. -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jethro at freakzilla.com Fri Sep 3 22:41:31 2004 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] NFS kernel panicing on 2.6.8? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey, On Fri, 3 Sep 2004, Nate Carlson wrote: > 2.6.8.1 was released right after 2.6.8 to fix some very serious kernel > bugs with NFS. Ah. That'll do it then (: I'll try that one out when I get a few minutes (busy weekend). Thanks! -Yaron -- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kfuchs at winternet.com Fri Sep 3 22:42:29 2004 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] debian question In-Reply-To: <20040903191218.GA13463@refried.org> (nate@refried.org) References: <3f0ccce00409031032c952efb@mail.gmail.com> <20040903180246.GA11992@refried.org> <1094237213.3535.15.camel@wkstn1> <20040903191218.GA13463@refried.org> Message-ID: <200409040342.i843gTJ29039@ecstasy1.winternet.com> >Welcome to Minnesota. I hope you didn't miss the week of summer we get >each year. ;) Minnesota has only two seasons: Four months of winter and Eight months of road repair! Sorry, just had to set the record straight :) Sincerely, Ken Fuchs _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kfuchs at winternet.com Fri Sep 3 22:56:40 2004 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Best Distro for AMD 64 In-Reply-To: <000901c4921b$61d2e540$1e02a8c0@zippy> (markdeb.browne@comcast.net) References: <000901c4921b$61d2e540$1e02a8c0@zippy> Message-ID: <200409040356.i843ueT29231@ecstasy1.winternet.com> Mark Browne wrote: >Any comments on which distro best supports the Athlon 64 today? >BTW - it has an NVIDIA gforce graphics card, and Sound Blaster audigy sound, >if that matters. >I am partial to Mandrake but I really want to see what a 64 bit box can do! I would use SuSE GNU/Linux 9.1 Professional. The AMD64 version is on one of the two DVDs. (There's also five CDs, if I recall correctly.) Sincerely, Ken Fuchs _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Sat Sep 4 00:01:54 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dell 1750 not booting -- need suggestions In-Reply-To: ; from wilson@visi.com on Fri, Sep 03, 2004 at 10:36:20PM -0500 References: <20040903204919.A6090@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <20040904000154.A15631@thinkunix.net> Tim Wilson wrote: > On 9/3/04 8:49 PM, "Scot Jenkins" wrote: > > > A late reply here, but I've found having a Knoppix cdrom can be really > > handy for identifying hardware (such as your raid controller) or for > > figuring out which partition is the / (root) partition. > > Unfortunately in my case, the Knoppix CD I used didn't seem to detect the > RAID hardware in this system. It didn't do much good. > > On a related note... > > The Knoppix CD does a fantastic job of setting up a text-only environment > with perfectly sized text, good color combinations, and a VESA framebuffer. > How can I figure out the settings that Knoppix is using so I can apply them > to this server? Setting up a nice text-only environment isn't something I've > delved into much before. Try mounting the knoppix cdrom and poking around under /etc. Surely there's some config file magic going on in there. I'd start with /etc/profile, /etc/default(s)/*, /etc/init.d/*. Personally, I'm happy with the non-framebuffer 80x25 consoles, but I value my eyesight. "Screen sizes is inversely proportional to font size." (the bigger the monitors are, the smaller the fonts.) -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Fri Sep 3 23:14:06 2004 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian question In-Reply-To: <20040903180246.GA11992@refried.org> References: <3f0ccce00409031032c952efb@mail.gmail.com> <20040903180246.GA11992@refried.org> Message-ID: <20040904041406.GM2829@momentum.poptix.net> On Fri, Sep 03, 2004 at 01:02:46PM -0500, nate@refried.org wrote: > On Fri, Sep 03, 2004 at 12:32:15PM -0500, Joel Wickard wrote: > > Does anyone know exactly why debian kicks so much ass? > > IMNSHO: > > - apt-get Not debian specific > - large package selection Ditto > - apt-get Ditto > - local mirror Ditto (umn, real-time, etc) > - small initial install You can look at this either way =) > - all build and development tools are packaged Not debian specific > - easy to rebuild packages with modifications rpmbuild -b foo.spec or rpmbuild --rebuild foo.src.rpm > - don't need to worry about which version of dpkg you have installed I worry about having dpkg installed at all =) > - apt-get See above =P > Did I miss anything? ;) TROLL -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Fri Sep 3 23:15:42 2004 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian question In-Reply-To: <20040903191218.GA13463@refried.org> References: <3f0ccce00409031032c952efb@mail.gmail.com> <20040903180246.GA11992@refried.org> <1094237213.3535.15.camel@wkstn1> <20040903191218.GA13463@refried.org> Message-ID: <20040904041542.GN2829@momentum.poptix.net> On Fri, Sep 03, 2004 at 02:12:18PM -0500, nate@refried.org wrote: > > https://moin.conectiva.com.br/AptRpm (etc.) > > > > It certainly makes my life easier... > > Easier, but it's still not the same. The Debian package repository is > much better maintained than many of the RPM based distros. Trying to > paste apt-rpm on the a Redhat distro usually calls for some hand holding > until the database is in a state that apt-get will not complain about. That's not true, apt requires the same dependancies that rpm does for a "happy" package database. If you futz around with --force and --nodeps then you get what you're asking for with _any_ packaging system. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Sat Sep 4 09:09:29 2004 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian question In-Reply-To: <20040904041542.GN2829@momentum.poptix.net> References: <3f0ccce00409031032c952efb@mail.gmail.com> <20040903180246.GA11992@refried.org> <1094237213.3535.15.camel@wkstn1> <20040903191218.GA13463@refried.org> <20040904041542.GN2829@momentum.poptix.net> Message-ID: <20040904140929.GB8584@refried.org> On Fri, Sep 03, 2004 at 11:15:42PM -0500, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > On Fri, Sep 03, 2004 at 02:12:18PM -0500, nate@refried.org wrote: > > > https://moin.conectiva.com.br/AptRpm (etc.) > > > > > > It certainly makes my life easier... > > > > Easier, but it's still not the same. The Debian package repository is > > much better maintained than many of the RPM based distros. Trying to > > paste apt-rpm on the a Redhat distro usually calls for some hand holding > > until the database is in a state that apt-get will not complain about. > > That's not true, apt requires the same dependancies that rpm does for a > "happy" package database. If you futz around with --force and --nodeps then > you get what you're asking for with _any_ packaging system. Last I checked the Redhat installer still does the initial install with --force --nodeps. Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at gmail.com Sat Sep 4 10:15:00 2004 From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] debian question In-Reply-To: <200409040342.i843gTJ29039@ecstasy1.winternet.com> References: <3f0ccce00409031032c952efb@mail.gmail.com> <20040903180246.GA11992@refried.org> <1094237213.3535.15.camel@wkstn1> <20040903191218.GA13463@refried.org> <200409040342.i843gTJ29039@ecstasy1.winternet.com> Message-ID: <32fd4537040904081562c3421c@mail.gmail.com> > Minnesota has only two seasons: > Four months of winter > and > Eight months of road repair! > > Sorry, just had to set the record straight :) WRONG! 1) Almost Winter 2) Winter 3) Still Winter 4) Road Construction! See, we've got 4! _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at gmail.com Sat Sep 4 10:17:27 2004 From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Best Distro for AMD 64 In-Reply-To: <200409040356.i843ueT29231@ecstasy1.winternet.com> References: <000901c4921b$61d2e540$1e02a8c0@zippy> <200409040356.i843ueT29231@ecstasy1.winternet.com> Message-ID: <32fd4537040904081729444923@mail.gmail.com> I've heard good things about Debian's and Gentoo's. I haven't tried either yet, still working on the BIOS issue with my eMachines M6805 (early release...buggy AMD64 noexecute code...newer BIOS exists, but eMachines didn't know it was a problem, until last week...hope they label it w/tag of M6805 so I can use it, and make it available) I'm thinkin I'm gonna try either Debian or Gentoo, simply because of emerge and apt-get. (Then again, I've never used either...but dependency hell on dialup SUCKS) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at gmail.com Sat Sep 4 10:21:09 2004 From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail invites available... Message-ID: <32fd453704090408216a67d2f9@mail.gmail.com> I've got 6 gmail invites, LINUX ROCKS contact me off list if you want one. It seems that 2-4 days after sending out your current batch of invites, it gives you more. GO LINUX _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rclark at lakesplus.com Sat Sep 4 11:26:40 2004 From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: XP Home license key Message-ID: <004701c4929b$f81a5d00$0201a8c0@office> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Sat Sep 4 11:43:19 2004 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: XP Home license key In-Reply-To: <004701c4929b$f81a5d00$0201a8c0@office> References: <004701c4929b$f81a5d00$0201a8c0@office> Message-ID: <4406.192.168.100.2.1094316199.squirrel@192.168.100.2> That was one of Micro-scam's ploys to make sure everyone was paying for their OS's. XP home is big on examining the hardware of the system on which it is running. That information is then registered with Microsoft. If you later try to install your legitimately owned copy on a machine other than the original, the database will recognize the fact that the hardware is different, and it will call you "pirate." Without further information, I'm guessing that is what is happening here. > > A client has a Compaq computer that originally had XP Home installed on > it. It crashed and there were not any recovery disks, etc. .. so I put a > brand new version of XP Pro on it at the time because that was the fastest > solution to get it back on line. > > So ... he has the license key (Product key) attached to the side of the > machine for XP Home. He has a new machine with no OS ... I get a copy of > XP Home from a buddy ... go to install it and it tells me the key is not > valid. > > Questions: Any one else ever have this problem? Is there an OEM Version > of XP Home or something that needs to be used rather than the standard XP > Home? > > He has the legit license key - not being used .. I was hoping there was > some way he could use it. > > Randy > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From electrum at gmail.com Sat Sep 4 11:34:21 2004 From: electrum at gmail.com (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: XP Home license key In-Reply-To: <004701c4929b$f81a5d00$0201a8c0@office> References: <004701c4929b$f81a5d00$0201a8c0@office> Message-ID: <853e1ecc04090409343b7142dc@mail.gmail.com> > I was hoping there was some way he could use it. How about doing things the right way? Call the vendor (Compaq) and ask them for a recovery disk. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From WordenCar at aol.com Sat Sep 4 12:01:25 2004 From: WordenCar at aol.com (WordenCar@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Thank you for your assistance BUT need CD-ROM RW help now Message-ID: <89.141d30a9.2e6b4ee5@aol.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jwickard at gmail.com Sat Sep 4 12:27:23 2004 From: jwickard at gmail.com (Joel Wickard) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: XP Home license key In-Reply-To: <853e1ecc04090409343b7142dc@mail.gmail.com> References: <004701c4929b$f81a5d00$0201a8c0@office> <853e1ecc04090409343b7142dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3f0ccce00409041027696d64aa@mail.gmail.com> When is friend got his machine and doco, chances are there was a "recovery" partition already on the machine. You are advised to burn recovery disks yourself in the literature typically. On Sat, 4 Sep 2004 11:34:21 -0500, David Phillips wrote: > > I was hoping there was some way he could use it. > > How about doing things the right way? Call the vendor (Compaq) and > ask them for a recovery disk. > > -- > David Phillips > http://david.acz.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.meier at gmail.com Sat Sep 4 12:33:35 2004 From: john.meier at gmail.com (meierjo) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Thank you for your assistance BUT need CD-ROM RW help now In-Reply-To: <89.141d30a9.2e6b4ee5@aol.com> References: <89.141d30a9.2e6b4ee5@aol.com> Message-ID: <65293fcc0409041033499946bf@mail.gmail.com> Go for broke and try out a DVDRW (which also does CDRW) for ~$60(single layer) - ~$70 (double layer) from new egg: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=27-152-026&depa=0 http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=27-152-022&depa=0 I have the NEC 2500A (single layer burner) which is the same Hardware as the 2510 (double layer dvd burner) only the firmware is different. The 2500 work great with liinux (I'm a gentoo dude - I'm 100% positive it'd work with redrat..) ----- Original Message ----- From: wordencar@aol.com Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 13:01:25 EDT Subject: [TCLUG] Thank you for your assistance BUT need CD-ROM RW help now To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Many thanks to all of you who so nicely took time to try to assist me with my laptop endeavor. For multiple reasons, I have made a decision to work with the old desktop which is a Pentium 2, 400mhz PC. I have been able to partition it into 3 partitions - Windows 95, RH Linux 6.1, and RH Linux 9.0. It has an external 3COM modem which works on dial-in for both Linux 6.1 and 9.0. We have successfully been able to upgrade the S/W application to its lastest version and converted the data for the application. I have a problem now with my Travan tape drive - I can backup files with no errors, but get errors when trying to restore the backed up files. I have cleaned the tape head(s), erased and retensioned the tapes, but still get errors. Soooo, I am contemplating replacing my 52x ATAPI/IDE CD-ROM R drive with an ATAPI/IDE CD-ROM RW drive. I have looked at Red Hat compatibility databases and have not found much assistance. My question is: What manufacturer(s) and model #(s) might you recommend I get for the replacement? I want the CD-ROM RW to work. Any suggestions? Again, thank you for your assistance. Carol Worden wordencar@aol.com 651-633-5400 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Sat Sep 4 13:15:37 2004 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Thank you for your assistance BUT need CD-ROM RW help now In-Reply-To: <89.141d30a9.2e6b4ee5@aol.com> References: <89.141d30a9.2e6b4ee5@aol.com> Message-ID: <413A0649.7090108@eworld3.net> AFAIK all CD-R/CD-RW/CD-ROM drives made in at least the last 5 years are standardized (someone help me with the name). They will all work with Linux without any trouble, just plug the drive in and boot. How much data do you want to backup? Will a CD-R/CD-RW be big enough? I'm just thinking that the tape probably holds a lot more than a CD but maybe the CD has enough capacity for you. I think that you will be better off using some kind of CD. If you still want to get the tape drive working, please tell us how you write and read the tape and the exact error messages. WordenCar@aol.com wrote: > Many thanks to all of you who so nicely took time to try to assist me > with my laptop endeavor. For multiple reasons, I have made a decision > to work with the old desktop which is a Pentium 2, 400mhz PC. I have > been able to partition it into 3 partitions - Windows 95, RH Linux 6.1, > and RH Linux 9.0. It has an external 3COM modem which works on dial-in > for both Linux 6.1 and 9.0. We have successfully been able to upgrade > the S/W application to its lastest version and converted the data for > the application. > > I have a problem now with my Travan tape drive - I can backup files with > no errors, but get errors when trying to restore the backed up files. I > have cleaned the tape head(s), erased and retensioned the tapes, but > still get errors. Soooo, I am contemplating replacing my 52x > ATAPI/IDE CD-ROM R drive with an ATAPI/IDE CD-ROM RW drive. > > I have looked at Red Hat compatibility databases and have not found much > assistance. > > My question is: What manufacturer(s) and model #(s) might you recommend > I get for the replacement? I want the CD-ROM RW to work. Any suggestions? > > Again, thank you for your assistance. > > Carol Worden > wordencar@aol.com > 651-633-5400 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Sat Sep 4 13:38:54 2004 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: XP Home license key In-Reply-To: <004701c4929b$f81a5d00$0201a8c0@office> References: <004701c4929b$f81a5d00$0201a8c0@office> Message-ID: <413A0BBE.50907@comcast.net> As far as I can figure out, most XPHome CDs are hard coded to the key that came with them. I was playing with a valid XPHome Product Key and trying to use it with a friends XPHome CD and it would not allow me to use the key that did not come with the CDROM. I could not even use a tool like RockXP to change the key after installation (works great with XP Pro though!) Kinda sucks, I have a couple valid XPHome Keys with no CDROM to install it on a machine (yeah I know, use Linux.....but ya know....). Randy Clarksean wrote: > > A client has a Compaq computer that originally had XP Home installed on > it. It crashed and there were not any recovery disks, etc. .. so I put > a brand new version of XP Pro on it at the time because that was the > fastest solution to get it back on line. > > So ... he has the license key (Product key) attached to the side of the > machine for XP Home. He has a new machine with no OS ... I get a copy > of XP Home from a buddy ... go to install it and it tells me the key is > not valid. > > Questions: Any one else ever have this problem? Is there an OEM > Version of XP Home or something that needs to be used rather than the > standard XP Home? > > He has the legit license key - not being used .. I was hoping there was > some way he could use it. > > Randy > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at gmail.com Sat Sep 4 13:47:55 2004 From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: XP Home license key In-Reply-To: <413A0BBE.50907@comcast.net> References: <004701c4929b$f81a5d00$0201a8c0@office> <413A0BBE.50907@comcast.net> Message-ID: <32fd4537040904114775aec1d5@mail.gmail.com> >From my experience, since 98 (give or take an OS release) Microsoft's made different CDs - each one only working with certain sets of keys. So your best bet (if you don't have the recovery partition and can't get CDs from Compaq) would be to just keep trying different CDS - it actually usually works sooner or later. However, supposedly Microsoft has a CD for OEM System Builders (funny, I haven't gotten one..) that will work with any key (for OEM installers, etc) So if anyone can get their hands on THAT CD, for XP Home and/or Pro, it'd be great to have. (I hate having to do 3 reinstalls just to get the sticker's key to work) Or just how to get one direct even. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sat Sep 4 16:32:49 2004 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: XP Home license key In-Reply-To: <004701c4929b$f81a5d00$0201a8c0@office> References: <004701c4929b$f81a5d00$0201a8c0@office> Message-ID: <413A3481.30406@visi.com> Microsoft and Compaq (any hardware vendor) have an agreement the OS is licensed for that specific hardware and no other. Sam. Randy Clarksean wrote: > > A client has a Compaq computer that originally had XP Home installed > on it. It crashed and there were not any recovery disks, etc. .. so I > put a brand new version of XP Pro on it at the time because that was > the fastest solution to get it back on line. > > So ... he has the license key (Product key) attached to the side of > the machine for XP Home. He has a new machine with no OS ... I get a > copy of XP Home from a buddy ... go to install it and it tells me the > key is not valid. > > Questions: Any one else ever have this problem? Is there an OEM > Version of XP Home or something that needs to be used rather than the > standard XP Home? > > He has the legit license key - not being used .. I was hoping there > was some way he could use it. > > Randy > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rclark at lakesplus.com Sat Sep 4 16:46:20 2004 From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: XP Home license key References: <004701c4929b$f81a5d00$0201a8c0@office> <853e1ecc04090409343b7142dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001b01c492c8$a06e8a90$0201a8c0@office> Well .. in theory that is always nice. But ... there is always a but ... when a system crashes and the business needs it the next day to fill a few hundred prescriptions for a nursing home ... there is no time to call Compaq and have then send you the CDs. You improvise to make sure the client is up and running ASAP ... that is why I went ahead and did a clean install with XP Pro .. since that was readily available. The system was a refurbished Compaq bought from another vendor. I have my doubts that Compaq would do a thing for the owner of the system .. I could be wrong .. but that is my guess. Yes ... a set of recovery disks should have been run by the client when they bought the system .. but they were not. It is sad that the client has a legitimate XP Home license key ... and it sounds like it will be hit and miss in order for him to ever make any use out of it. Thanks for all the input. Randy ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Phillips" To: Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2004 11:34 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] OT: XP Home license key > > I was hoping there was some way he could use it. > > How about doing things the right way? Call the vendor (Compaq) and > ask them for a recovery disk. > > -- > David Phillips > http://david.acz.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From silwenae at silwenae.com Sat Sep 4 17:01:32 2004 From: silwenae at silwenae.com (Paul Cutler) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: XP Home license key In-Reply-To: <001b01c492c8$a06e8a90$0201a8c0@office> References: <004701c4929b$f81a5d00$0201a8c0@office> <853e1ecc04090409343b7142dc@mail.gmail.com> <001b01c492c8$a06e8a90$0201a8c0@office> Message-ID: <1094335292.4896.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> A lot of the Compaq's built in the last few years have a hidden partition where they have Windows recovery data stored. Pop in their restore CD (when you can find it) and it reloads the OS from the partition. But I agree, Windows licenses drive me batty as well. --paul On Sat, 2004-09-04 at 16:46, Randy Clarksean wrote: > Well .. in theory that is always nice. But ... there is always a but ... > when a system crashes and the business needs it the next day to fill a few > hundred prescriptions for a nursing home ... there is no time to call Compaq > and have then send you the CDs. You improvise to make sure the client is up > and running ASAP ... that is why I went ahead and did a clean install with > XP Pro .. since that was readily available. > > The system was a refurbished Compaq bought from another vendor. I have my > doubts that Compaq would do a thing for the owner of the system .. I could > be wrong .. but that is my guess. > > Yes ... a set of recovery disks should have been run by the client when they > bought the system .. but they were not. > > It is sad that the client has a legitimate XP Home license key ... and it > sounds like it will be hit and miss in order for him to ever make any use > out of it. > > Thanks for all the input. > > Randy > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Phillips" > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2004 11:34 AM > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] OT: XP Home license key > > > > > I was hoping there was some way he could use it. > > > > How about doing things the right way? Call the vendor (Compaq) and > > ask them for a recovery disk. > > > > -- > > David Phillips > > http://david.acz.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sat Sep 4 18:16:17 2004 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: XP Home license key In-Reply-To: <001b01c492c8$a06e8a90$0201a8c0@office> References: <004701c4929b$f81a5d00$0201a8c0@office> <853e1ecc04090409343b7142dc@mail.gmail.com> <001b01c492c8$a06e8a90$0201a8c0@office> Message-ID: <413A4CC1.5020909@visi.com> I'm not being nasty I'm just saying to you need to say to the business if you already haven't If the machine was a presario then it's junk in the first place. Cheep PC = junk = down time for business. Buy new PC's for business not used PC's, get some support with them. Buy Dell machines, buy the 3 year on site 24/7/365 warranty, don't scrimp. Sam. Randy Clarksean wrote: >Well .. in theory that is always nice. But ... there is always a but ... >when a system crashes and the business needs it the next day to fill a few >hundred prescriptions for a nursing home ... there is no time to call Compaq >and have then send you the CDs. You improvise to make sure the client is up >and running ASAP ... that is why I went ahead and did a clean install with >XP Pro .. since that was readily available. > >The system was a refurbished Compaq bought from another vendor. I have my >doubts that Compaq would do a thing for the owner of the system .. I could >be wrong .. but that is my guess. > >Yes ... a set of recovery disks should have been run by the client when they >bought the system .. but they were not. > >It is sad that the client has a legitimate XP Home license key ... and it >sounds like it will be hit and miss in order for him to ever make any use >out of it. > >Thanks for all the input. > >Randy > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "David Phillips" >To: >Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2004 11:34 AM >Subject: Re: [TCLUG] OT: XP Home license key > > > > >>>I was hoping there was some way he could use it. >>> >>> >>How about doing things the right way? Call the vendor (Compaq) and >>ask them for a recovery disk. >> >>-- >>David Phillips >>http://david.acz.org/ >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >>tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Sat Sep 4 21:11:16 2004 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian question In-Reply-To: <20040904140929.GB8584@refried.org> References: <3f0ccce00409031032c952efb@mail.gmail.com> <20040903180246.GA11992@refried.org> <1094237213.3535.15.camel@wkstn1> <20040903191218.GA13463@refried.org> <20040904041542.GN2829@momentum.poptix.net> <20040904140929.GB8584@refried.org> Message-ID: <20040905021115.GX2829@momentum.poptix.net> On Sat, Sep 04, 2004 at 09:09:29AM -0500, nate@refried.org wrote: > > Last I checked the Redhat installer still does the initial install with > --force --nodeps. The installer calculates deps, and has to fetch (from whichever media) the packages one-by-one then install them. The resulting system has no dependancy errors unless you manage to bork the installer (again, at this point it's your own fault) -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Sat Sep 4 22:00:55 2004 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian question In-Reply-To: <20040905021115.GX2829@momentum.poptix.net> References: <3f0ccce00409031032c952efb@mail.gmail.com> <20040903180246.GA11992@refried.org> <1094237213.3535.15.camel@wkstn1> <20040903191218.GA13463@refried.org> <20040904041542.GN2829@momentum.poptix.net> <20040904140929.GB8584@refried.org> <20040905021115.GX2829@momentum.poptix.net> Message-ID: <20040905030055.GC8584@refried.org> On Sat, Sep 04, 2004 at 09:11:16PM -0500, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > On Sat, Sep 04, 2004 at 09:09:29AM -0500, nate@refried.org wrote: > > > > Last I checked the Redhat installer still does the initial install with > > --force --nodeps. > > The installer calculates deps, and has to fetch (from whichever media) the > packages one-by-one then install them. The resulting system has no dependancy > errors unless you manage to bork the installer (again, at this point it's > your own fault) Try checking "install everything" sometime. Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From electrum at gmail.com Sat Sep 4 23:16:27 2004 From: electrum at gmail.com (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: XP Home license key In-Reply-To: <413A4CC1.5020909@visi.com> References: <004701c4929b$f81a5d00$0201a8c0@office> <853e1ecc04090409343b7142dc@mail.gmail.com> <001b01c492c8$a06e8a90$0201a8c0@office> <413A4CC1.5020909@visi.com> Message-ID: <853e1ecc04090421162011dcaa@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 17:16:17 -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > Buy new PC's for business not used PC's, get some support with them. Buy Macs. Better hardware, better OS, as good or better support. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jwickard at gmail.com Sun Sep 5 00:23:15 2004 From: jwickard at gmail.com (Joel Wickard) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: XP Home license key In-Reply-To: <853e1ecc04090421162011dcaa@mail.gmail.com> References: <004701c4929b$f81a5d00$0201a8c0@office> <853e1ecc04090409343b7142dc@mail.gmail.com> <001b01c492c8$a06e8a90$0201a8c0@office> <413A4CC1.5020909@visi.com> <853e1ecc04090421162011dcaa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3f0ccce004090422236ec0b489@mail.gmail.com> I agree with david, this really takes care of two problems, you get a good solid machine, and you can sell your children to afford the machine, so then you don't have to listen to the damn kids complain all day/night. On Sat, 4 Sep 2004 23:16:27 -0500, David Phillips wrote: > On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 17:16:17 -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > Buy new PC's for business not used PC's, get some support with them. > > Buy Macs. Better hardware, better OS, as good or better support. > > > > -- > David Phillips > http://david.acz.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jeremy at rosengren.org Sun Sep 5 00:56:07 2004 From: jeremy at rosengren.org (Jeremy A. Rosengren) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: XP Home license key In-Reply-To: <3f0ccce004090422236ec0b489@mail.gmail.com> References: <004701c4929b$f81a5d00$0201a8c0@office> <853e1ecc04090409343b7142dc@mail.gmail.com> <001b01c492c8$a06e8a90$0201a8c0@office> <413A4CC1.5020909@visi.com> <853e1ecc04090421162011dcaa@mail.gmail.com> <3f0ccce004090422236ec0b489@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <413AAA77.5000409@rosengren.org> Joel Wickard wrote: > I agree with david, this really takes care of two problems, you get a > good solid machine, and you can sell your children to afford the > machine, so then you don't have to listen to the damn kids complain > all day/night. > > > On Sat, 4 Sep 2004 23:16:27 -0500, David Phillips wrote: > >>On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 17:16:17 -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: >> >>>Buy new PC's for business not used PC's, get some support with them. >> >>Buy Macs. Better hardware, better OS, as good or better support. Hear hear! I don't have children, but if we could expand this to a trade-in plan for other people's children, I'm all in favor :) -- jeremy _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From leifjohnsonsemail at yahoo.com Sat Sep 4 23:52:38 2004 From: leifjohnsonsemail at yahoo.com (Leif Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] qwest dsl/actiontec gt701-wg Message-ID: <20040905045238.20148.qmail@web20524.mail.yahoo.com> I just got qwest dsl and it came with an Actiontec GT701-wg modem/gateway. Using dhcp running a 2.6 kernel (SuSE or Knoppix) my computer doesn't resolve host names correctly. Using a 2.4 kernel (SuSE or Knoppix) or FreeBSD 4.8 everything works fine. Has any one else run into this problem? leif _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. http://messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at poptix.net Fri Sep 3 23:14:06 2004 From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian question In-Reply-To: <20040903180246.GA11992@refried.org> References: <3f0ccce00409031032c952efb@mail.gmail.com> <20040903180246.GA11992@refried.org> Message-ID: <20040904041406.GM2829@momentum.poptix.net> On Fri, Sep 03, 2004 at 01:02:46PM -0500, nate@refried.org wrote: > On Fri, Sep 03, 2004 at 12:32:15PM -0500, Joel Wickard wrote: > > Does anyone know exactly why debian kicks so much ass? > > IMNSHO: > > - apt-get Not debian specific > - large package selection Ditto > - apt-get Ditto > - local mirror Ditto (umn, real-time, etc) > - small initial install You can look at this either way =) > - all build and development tools are packaged Not debian specific > - easy to rebuild packages with modifications rpmbuild -b foo.spec or rpmbuild --rebuild foo.src.rpm > - don't need to worry about which version of dpkg you have installed I worry about having dpkg installed at all =) > - apt-get See above =P > Did I miss anything? ;) TROLL -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at poptix.net Fri Sep 3 23:15:42 2004 From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian question In-Reply-To: <20040903191218.GA13463@refried.org> References: <3f0ccce00409031032c952efb@mail.gmail.com> <20040903180246.GA11992@refried.org> <1094237213.3535.15.camel@wkstn1> <20040903191218.GA13463@refried.org> Message-ID: <20040904041542.GN2829@momentum.poptix.net> On Fri, Sep 03, 2004 at 02:12:18PM -0500, nate@refried.org wrote: > > https://moin.conectiva.com.br/AptRpm (etc.) > > > > It certainly makes my life easier... > > Easier, but it's still not the same. The Debian package repository is > much better maintained than many of the RPM based distros. Trying to > paste apt-rpm on the a Redhat distro usually calls for some hand holding > until the database is in a state that apt-get will not complain about. That's not true, apt requires the same dependancies that rpm does for a "happy" package database. If you futz around with --force and --nodeps then you get what you're asking for with _any_ packaging system. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cmulcahy at cmulcahy.com Fri Sep 3 21:12:56 2004 From: cmulcahy at cmulcahy.com (Chris Mulcahy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Best Distro for AMD 64 In-Reply-To: <000901c4921b$61d2e540$1e02a8c0@zippy> References: <000901c4921b$61d2e540$1e02a8c0@zippy> Message-ID: <1094263976.12873.4.camel@gentoobox> Greets! I recently had the same dillema. I was partial to Libranet (Debian-based). Worked great for me. When I got my Athlon, I looked around, asked around and decided on Gentoo. Compile if you want or bootstrap with a stage 2 or 3 if you do not want to compile everything. Of course, having a new, fast, monster family member, I had to compile everything. Kernel recompile in less than 2 minutes. You have to love that. There's an AMD64 discussion group. Check it out to see which apps are and are not compatible. They're keeping a very good list. You can search for the packages you use on the Gentoo site and it'll tell you the compatibility as well. I've been happy. I'm not a huge game player, so I cannot tell you what games do or do not work. Come to think of it, I haven't even played Tux Racer. I have to try that out. Good luck! Have fun with the new box. Chris On Fri, 2004-09-03 at 20:06, Mark Browne wrote: > We have a new member in the family - I have my new Compaq SA4000Z sitting in > the shipping box in my dining room as I type this. > > I can sense that it *really* wants to come out and play. > > I am controlling myself and planning out the hardware, apps, games and > utilities as part of setting it up. > Then comes the fun of rounding up the install disks and fetching updated > drivers as needed. > > Naturally, this process will include one of the many Linux distros. > I need it to dual boot / co-reside with Win-XP pro. > > Any comments on which distro best supports the Athlon 64 today? > BTW - it has an NVIDIA gforce graphics card, and Sound Blaster audigy sound, > if that matters. > I am partial to Mandrake but I really want to see what a 64 bit box can do! > > Mark Browne > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at poptix.net Fri Sep 3 23:15:42 2004 From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian question In-Reply-To: <20040903191218.GA13463@refried.org> References: <3f0ccce00409031032c952efb@mail.gmail.com> <20040903180246.GA11992@refried.org> <1094237213.3535.15.camel@wkstn1> <20040903191218.GA13463@refried.org> Message-ID: <20040904041542.GN2829@momentum.poptix.net> On Fri, Sep 03, 2004 at 02:12:18PM -0500, nate@refried.org wrote: > > https://moin.conectiva.com.br/AptRpm (etc.) > > > > It certainly makes my life easier... > > Easier, but it's still not the same. The Debian package repository is > much better maintained than many of the RPM based distros. Trying to > paste apt-rpm on the a Redhat distro usually calls for some hand holding > until the database is in a state that apt-get will not complain about. That's not true, apt requires the same dependancies that rpm does for a "happy" package database. If you futz around with --force and --nodeps then you get what you're asking for with _any_ packaging system. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ston0235 at umn.edu Sun Sep 5 01:22:24 2004 From: ston0235 at umn.edu (Ian Stoner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mp3 player recommendations Message-ID: <20040905012224.6a7d9151.ston0235@umn.edu> I would like to get an 128 or 256 MB mp3 player to take along while running or engaging in other forms of monotonous physical activity. It has to support GNU/Linux, which, as I understand it, means it has to function as a USB mass-storage device. It has to be reasonably durable. I'd prefer that it plays ogg vorbis in addition to mp3. I've been looking at the Creative Nomad/Muvo, which definitely meet the first criterion, dunno about the second, and they fail the third. Does anyone have experience with the Nomads? Are there players that people like better? -- Ian Stoner Philosophy Department University of Minnesota http://www.tc.umn.edu/~ston0235/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From silwenae at silwenae.com Sun Sep 5 08:16:00 2004 From: silwenae at silwenae.com (Paul Cutler) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mp3 player recommendations In-Reply-To: <20040905012224.6a7d9151.ston0235@umn.edu> References: <20040905012224.6a7d9151.ston0235@umn.edu> Message-ID: <1094390160.4896.50.camel@localhost.localdomain> You might want to look into iRiver. I have one of their hard drive products which works great in Linux. And their Ogg support is one of the best. As far as their flash based players, there is a Sourceforge project for iRiver flash players in beta - http://ifp-driver.sourceforge.net/ . Googling around I saw various threads for Debian and Gentoo getting their flash players to work, so help should be available. --paul On Sun, 2004-09-05 at 01:22, Ian Stoner wrote: > I would like to get an 128 or 256 MB mp3 player to take along while > running or engaging in other forms of monotonous physical activity. It > has to support GNU/Linux, which, as I understand it, means it has to > function as a USB mass-storage device. It has to be reasonably durable. > I'd prefer that it plays ogg vorbis in addition to mp3. > > I've been looking at the Creative Nomad/Muvo, which definitely meet the > first criterion, dunno about the second, and they fail the third. Does > anyone have experience with the Nomads? Are there players that people > like better? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From strayf at freeshell.org Sun Sep 5 10:20:52 2004 From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steven Cayford) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] qwest dsl/actiontec gt701-wg In-Reply-To: <20040905045238.20148.qmail@web20524.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040905045238.20148.qmail@web20524.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040905152052.GA19455@crito> On Sat, Sep 04, 2004 at 09:52:38PM -0700, Leif Johnson wrote: > I just got qwest dsl and it came with an Actiontec > GT701-wg modem/gateway. Using dhcp running a 2.6 > kernel (SuSE or Knoppix) my computer doesn't resolve > host names correctly. Using a 2.4 kernel (SuSE or > Knoppix) or FreeBSD 4.8 everything works fine. Has > any one else run into this problem? I've been having similar problems. 2.4 or 2.6 kernel makes no difference for me (I'm running Debian), but some apps have problems and others don't. Mozilla doesn't have a problem, but apt-get and lynx do. I tried to follow what was going on with tcpdump and got the impression that some apps try an IPV6 name lookup before falling back to IPV4. It seems that the IPV6 request borks the name server in the Actiontec and makes it return the IP address 1.0.0.0 for the next IPV4 request. I updated to the latest firmware from Qwest, but still have the problem. My workaround for now has been to use host (which doesn't have this problem) to cache the name lookup before running apt-get, or else list another name server before the actiontec in /etc/resolv.conf. -Steve _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Sun Sep 5 10:47:59 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] question about laptop/desktop synchronization Message-ID: <16699.13615.84110.271500@gargle.gargle.HOWL> This seems sure to be a FAQ, but it's quite resistant to Googling.... AFAICT, rsync provides the necessary INFRASTRUCTURE to synchronizing directories, but not the full solution. In particular, it doesn't seem to provide a solution to the problem of multiple writes between synchronizations (or have I missed this)? Yes, you can do a bidirectional synchronization, but rsync --update is going to look at just the latest mod time, not the difference between last mtime and the new one.... Now, for arbitrary files, there isn't going to be a good solution to this problem, but at least one should flag this case for manual intervention.... So: is there some OS solution out there that, say, yokes rsync together with some form of log file in order to do bidirectional synchronization, comparing modtimes with the last synch when deciding what to do? Seems like the remote file list capability might be a part of such a solution? this seems like an itch that someone has already scratched (and most likely several someones). Thanks, R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From electrum at gmail.com Sun Sep 5 11:44:24 2004 From: electrum at gmail.com (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] question about laptop/desktop synchronization In-Reply-To: <16699.13615.84110.271500@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16699.13615.84110.271500@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <853e1ecc040905094469c2da9e@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 10:47:59 -0500, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > Yes, you can do a bidirectional synchronization, but rsync --update is > going to look at just the latest mod time, not the difference between > last mtime and the new one.... http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/ -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From leif.t.johnson at gmail.com Sun Sep 5 11:50:29 2004 From: leif.t.johnson at gmail.com (Leif Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] qwest dsl/actiontec gt701-wg Message-ID: I turned off IPv6 and it works. What Mozilla are you using? I thought Mozilla used IPv6 by default. I'm going to email actiontec and whine that their router doesn't work. leif > On Sat, Sep 04, 2004 at 09:52:38PM -0700, Leif Johnson wrote: > > I just got qwest dsl and it came with an Actiontec > > GT701-wg modem/gateway. Using dhcp running a 2.6 > > kernel (SuSE or Knoppix) my computer doesn't resolve > > host names correctly. Using a 2.4 kernel (SuSE or > > Knoppix) or FreeBSD 4.8 everything works fine. Has > > any one else run into this problem? > > I've been having similar problems. 2.4 or 2.6 kernel makes no difference for > me (I'm running Debian), but some apps have problems and others don't. > Mozilla doesn't have a problem, but apt-get and lynx do. I tried to follow > what was going on with tcpdump and got the impression that some apps try an > IPV6 name lookup before falling back to IPV4. It seems that the IPV6 request > borks the name server in the Actiontec and makes it return the IP address > 1.0.0.0 for the next IPV4 request. I updated to the latest firmware from > Qwest, but still have the problem. My workaround for now has been to use > host (which doesn't have this problem) to cache the name lookup before > running apt-get, or else list another name server before the actiontec in > /etc/resolv.conf. > > -Steve _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From austad at signal15.com Sun Sep 5 15:24:55 2004 From: austad at signal15.com (Jay Austad) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] business stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ok, so this isn't really a linux question, but it's probably a question that many of the people on this list have wondered about at some point. Say a person has an idea, a potentially very good and marketable idea for a product or service. Where in the world would one start if they wanted to pursue starting a business out of it? I assume there are people on this list that have looked into this, or actually done this before. I've seen those places out there that want you to call them with your ideas, and they'll help you do patents, give you start up money, etc. But I assume most of those are just big scams. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From markdeb.browne at comcast.net Sun Sep 5 16:19:42 2004 From: markdeb.browne at comcast.net (Mark Browne) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] business stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jay, The answer kinda depends on the idea. Something that uses very little resources and can be run from a spare bedroom has a much lower threshold than something that demands heavy capitalization and lots of labor. One of the better places to start is a book by Don Lancaster: http://www.tinaja.com/ismm01.html He has some pretty good advise on how do view patents (I have several and find myself agreeing with him completely): http://www.tinaja.com/patnt01.asp A final note on Don - his site is a pretty cool place for a hacker: http://www.tinaja.com/ A good search term for resource for the budding hacker business man is "midnight engineering" See: http://www.enteng.com/midnight.htm The front door to the same site: http://www.enteng.com/ Best of luck in your business adventures, Mark Browne -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Jay Austad Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 2:25 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: [TCLUG] business stuff Ok, so this isn't really a linux question, but it's probably a question that many of the people on this list have wondered about at some point. Say a person has an idea, a potentially very good and marketable idea for a product or service. Where in the world would one start if they wanted to pursue starting a business out of it? I assume there are people on this list that have looked into this, or actually done this before. I've seen those places out there that want you to call them with your ideas, and they'll help you do patents, give you start up money, etc. But I assume most of those are just big scams. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kfuchs at winternet.com Sun Sep 5 16:29:50 2004 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: XP Home license key In-Reply-To: <413A4CC1.5020909@visi.com> (message from Sam MacDonald on Sat, 04 Sep 2004 17:16:17 -0600) References: <004701c4929b$f81a5d00$0201a8c0@office> <853e1ecc04090409343b7142dc@mail.gmail.com> <001b01c492c8$a06e8a90$0201a8c0@office> <413A4CC1.5020909@visi.com> Message-ID: <200409052129.i85LTo317052@ecstasy1.winternet.com> Sam wrote: >Buy new PC's for business not used PC's, get some support with them. >Buy Dell machines, buy the 3 year on site 24/7/365 warranty, don't scrimp. This isn't a bad idea, but I would personally ever select Dell or any other brand PC with OEM custom mainboards. I would select a PC with a "standard" mainboard that could be purchased in a retail box and is built by companies known for their high quality mainboards such as Tyan, Abit, Asus, etc. (avoid the under $100 crappy/buggy mainboards). Often the only way to get a quality PC is to build (assemble) it yourself using all high quality components, starting with the PS, the truly key component and source of about 50% of all hardware problems. Even so called "high quality" PC OEMs don't use _all_ high quality components. They may use a truly high quality video card, but the PS is often middle quality at best. Look at support as an insurance policy. It is wasted money unless you really need it. Your internal support structure may be a far better solution plus ready made backup servers, etc. Who is more motivated to respond, internal support people whose paycheck depends on their performance or support contract people who already have your money. Sincerely, Ken Fuchs _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.meier at gmail.com Sun Sep 5 16:33:21 2004 From: john.meier at gmail.com (meierjo) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mp3 player recommendations In-Reply-To: <1094390160.4896.50.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20040905012224.6a7d9151.ston0235@umn.edu> <1094390160.4896.50.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <65293fcc04090514332cc0951@mail.gmail.com> Also here's a news flash about the neuros: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/01/neuros_open_source/ and the archos - which has an open source project for better firmware: http://rockbox.haxx.se/ I think you can get a archos pretty cheap these days... like $100 or so... On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 08:16:00 -0500, Paul Cutler wrote: > You might want to look into iRiver. I have one of their hard drive > products which works great in Linux. And their Ogg support is one of > the best. > > As far as their flash based players, there is a Sourceforge project for > iRiver flash players in beta - http://ifp-driver.sourceforge.net/ . > Googling around I saw various threads for Debian and Gentoo getting > their flash players to work, so help should be available. > > --paul > > > > On Sun, 2004-09-05 at 01:22, Ian Stoner wrote: > > I would like to get an 128 or 256 MB mp3 player to take along while > > running or engaging in other forms of monotonous physical activity. It > > has to support GNU/Linux, which, as I understand it, means it has to > > function as a USB mass-storage device. It has to be reasonably durable. > > I'd prefer that it plays ogg vorbis in addition to mp3. > > > > I've been looking at the Creative Nomad/Muvo, which definitely meet the > > first criterion, dunno about the second, and they fail the third. Does > > anyone have experience with the Nomads? Are there players that people > > like better? > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.meier at gmail.com Sun Sep 5 16:59:11 2004 From: john.meier at gmail.com (meierjo) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mp3 player recommendations In-Reply-To: <65293fcc04090514332cc0951@mail.gmail.com> References: <20040905012224.6a7d9151.ston0235@umn.edu> <1094390160.4896.50.camel@localhost.localdomain> <65293fcc04090514332cc0951@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65293fcc04090514597a6ed547@mail.gmail.com> you may want to spend some time in each manufacture's forums area - see what people are complaining about, see what problems folks are having etc.... I spent a month monitoring the neuros forums about 1.5 years ago - they were begging for the firmware source - looks like they finally got it! On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 16:33:21 -0500, meierjo wrote: > Also here's a news flash about the neuros: > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/01/neuros_open_source/ > > and the archos - which has an open source project for better firmware: > http://rockbox.haxx.se/ > > I think you can get a archos pretty cheap these days... like $100 or so... > > > > On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 08:16:00 -0500, Paul Cutler wrote: > > You might want to look into iRiver. I have one of their hard drive > > products which works great in Linux. And their Ogg support is one of > > the best. > > > > As far as their flash based players, there is a Sourceforge project for > > iRiver flash players in beta - http://ifp-driver.sourceforge.net/ . > > Googling around I saw various threads for Debian and Gentoo getting > > their flash players to work, so help should be available. > > > > --paul > > > > > > > > On Sun, 2004-09-05 at 01:22, Ian Stoner wrote: > > > I would like to get an 128 or 256 MB mp3 player to take along while > > > running or engaging in other forms of monotonous physical activity. It > > > has to support GNU/Linux, which, as I understand it, means it has to > > > function as a USB mass-storage device. It has to be reasonably durable. > > > I'd prefer that it plays ogg vorbis in addition to mp3. > > > > > > I've been looking at the Creative Nomad/Muvo, which definitely meet the > > > first criterion, dunno about the second, and they fail the third. Does > > > anyone have experience with the Nomads? Are there players that people > > > like better? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tommyj27 at gmail.com Sun Sep 5 17:42:44 2004 From: tommyj27 at gmail.com (Thomas Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mp3 player recommendations In-Reply-To: <1094390160.4896.50.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20040905012224.6a7d9151.ston0235@umn.edu> <1094390160.4896.50.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1469cda204090515424680477d@mail.gmail.com> As a new owner of an iRiver H120 (20gb HDD, as of last night), I have to say that I am very pleased with it. The package came with plenty of goodies, headphone adaptors, extra earbud condoms, a pleather carrying case, etc. The transfer speed seems quite good, 9~10meg/s over usb2. It seems to function well, the menus are generally pretty intuitive. I know you (Ian) said you were looking for a flash player, but I just had to throw my two cents in. Going somewhat OT, I though I'd seen a project on SF to build the database file for the H1xx units. Looking again I can't seem to find it. Does such a thing exist and does any one have linkage for it? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jkjones at tcq.net Sun Sep 5 18:06:58 2004 From: jkjones at tcq.net (Kraig Jones) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] business stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <413B9C12.30803@tcq.net> Jay Austad wrote: > Ok, so this isn't really a linux question, but it's probably a > question that many of the people on this list have wondered about at > some point. > > Say a person has an idea, a potentially very good and marketable idea > for a product or service. Where in the world would one start if they > wanted to pursue starting a business out of it? I assume there are > people on this list that have looked into this, or actually done this > before. > > I've seen those places out there that want you to call them with your > ideas, and they'll help you do patents, give you start up money, etc. > But I assume most of those are just big scams. > > SCORE. IIRC that's "Service Corps of Retired Executives". Look them up in the phone book. I know they have an office in St. Louis Park or Minnetonka, probably more in the area. Tremendous resource. Much free advise, and a seminar on starting a business, for a reasonable price. Kraig _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From silwenae at silwenae.com Sun Sep 5 18:20:35 2004 From: silwenae at silwenae.com (Paul Cutler) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mp3 player recommendations In-Reply-To: <65293fcc04090514597a6ed547@mail.gmail.com> References: <20040905012224.6a7d9151.ston0235@umn.edu> <1094390160.4896.50.camel@localhost.localdomain> <65293fcc04090514332cc0951@mail.gmail.com> <65293fcc04090514597a6ed547@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1094426435.4896.53.camel@localhost.localdomain> I've had the 20gig Neuros for a year, and can't recommend it at all But of course, now we're OT, since Ian originally had asked about flash players! --paul On Sun, 2004-09-05 at 16:59, meierjo wrote: > you may want to spend some time in each manufacture's forums area - > see what people are complaining about, see what problems folks are > having etc.... > > I spent a month monitoring the neuros forums about 1.5 years ago - > they were begging for the firmware source - looks like they finally > got it! > > > On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 16:33:21 -0500, meierjo wrote: > > Also here's a news flash about the neuros: > > > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/01/neuros_open_source/ > > > > and the archos - which has an open source project for better firmware: > > http://rockbox.haxx.se/ > > > > I think you can get a archos pretty cheap these days... like $100 or so... > > > > > > > > On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 08:16:00 -0500, Paul Cutler wrote: > > > You might want to look into iRiver. I have one of their hard drive > > > products which works great in Linux. And their Ogg support is one of > > > the best. > > > > > > As far as their flash based players, there is a Sourceforge project for > > > iRiver flash players in beta - http://ifp-driver.sourceforge.net/ . > > > Googling around I saw various threads for Debian and Gentoo getting > > > their flash players to work, so help should be available. > > > > > > --paul > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 2004-09-05 at 01:22, Ian Stoner wrote: > > > > I would like to get an 128 or 256 MB mp3 player to take along while > > > > running or engaging in other forms of monotonous physical activity. It > > > > has to support GNU/Linux, which, as I understand it, means it has to > > > > function as a USB mass-storage device. It has to be reasonably durable. > > > > I'd prefer that it plays ogg vorbis in addition to mp3. > > > > > > > > I've been looking at the Creative Nomad/Muvo, which definitely meet the > > > > first criterion, dunno about the second, and they fail the third. Does > > > > anyone have experience with the Nomads? Are there players that people > > > > like better? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > > > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jkjones at tcq.net Sun Sep 5 19:07:54 2004 From: jkjones at tcq.net (Kraig Jones) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian install In-Reply-To: <413B9C12.30803@tcq.net> References: <413B9C12.30803@tcq.net> Message-ID: <413BAA5A.9020705@tcq.net> I'm trying to re-install Debian on an old Thinkpad. I had it installed once before, installed from "sarge-i386-netinst.iso (testing, beta4 installer), and with that installation all the x-server stuff, KDE, and "standard" applications installed and set themselves up without any fuss. I didn't have to find and install all the bits and pieces separately. When I booted up the first time, KDE was there. I've also used netinst (testing, beta3) in the same way on other computers. This time, the base system installs OK, but x-server and KDE are not there. As far as I know, I'm doing everything the same way as I did before, when everything worked. What am I doing wrong? Any suggestions? Thanks, Kraig Jones _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From strayf at freeshell.org Sun Sep 5 19:35:34 2004 From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steven Cayford) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] qwest dsl/actiontec gt701-wg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040906003534.GA20764@crito> On Sun, Sep 05, 2004 at 11:50:29AM -0500, Leif Johnson wrote: > I turned off IPv6 and it works. What Mozilla are you using? I > thought Mozilla used IPv6 by default. 1.6-5 from Debian unstable. > I'm going to email actiontec > and whine that their router doesn't work. Good idea. I've been meaning to do that, but never got around to it. -steve _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From skriefal at visi.com Sun Sep 5 21:09:33 2004 From: skriefal at visi.com (Scott Kriefall) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mp3 player recommendations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <413B808D.19765.14FDA85F@localhost> On 5 Sep 2004 at 18:18, tommyj27@gmail.com wrote: > Going somewhat OT, I though I'd seen a project on SF to build the > database file for the H1xx units. Looking again I can't seem to find > it. Does such a thing exist and does any one have linkage for it? I happened across that project a few days ago, while researching the various portable MP3/OGG/AAC players: http://www.marevalo.net/iRipDB/ Scott _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jack at jacku.com Sun Sep 5 22:04:33 2004 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] business stuff In-Reply-To: <413B9C12.30803@tcq.net> References: <413B9C12.30803@tcq.net> Message-ID: <200409052204.34079.jack@jacku.com> On Sunday 05 September 2004 06:06 pm, Kraig Jones wrote: > SCORE. IIRC that's "Service Corps of Retired Executives". Look them up > in the phone book. I know they have an office in St. Louis Park or > Minnetonka, probably more in the area. Tremendous resource. Much free > advise, and a seminar on starting a business, for a reasonable price. > > Kraig I'll second the comment on SCORE. They usually have ties to the Small Business Administration which can be a source of loans as well as advice. Also visit the MN Secretary of State's web site. (Use Google for the URL) You'll need to file paperwork with the State to start your business and SoS office sets the rules. If I remember right, you can download most of the necessary forms in PDF format from that site. -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dtgm at comcast.net Sun Sep 5 23:01:28 2004 From: dtgm at comcast.net (Adam Shrode) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mp3 player recommendations In-Reply-To: <1094426435.4896.53.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20040905012224.6a7d9151.ston0235@umn.edu> <1094390160.4896.50.camel@localhost.localdomain> <65293fcc04090514332cc0951@mail.gmail.com> <65293fcc04090514597a6ed547@mail.gmail.com> <1094426435.4896.53.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <413BE118.3060900@comcast.net> Paul Cutler wrote: >I've had the 20gig Neuros for a year, and can't recommend it at all > >But of course, now we're OT, since Ian originally had asked about flash >players! > >--paul > > I have been looking at players for some time. I meant to reply earlier but given my kernel is compiling ... What makes you say the Neuros is a no buy. Of course this is subjective, but I would be interested in hearing your quips about it. I had been heavily considering purchasing one. The price seems good and the feature list is astounding. Additionally they have http://open.neurosaudio.com/ which I thought pretty cool as I followed some of the arguments of how once you have the hardware, all you need is firmware and you are set. It's for this reason I also thought of maybe not purchasing one as prices may go down as a result. Plus the integration of ogg playability will increase. Perhaps you wouldn't recommend someone going back in time and purchasing a unit that is identical to the one you had, but supposing we consider the tech gets better? Or is it your perspective it really hasn't? Are you aware if they have changed hard drive suppliers or is skipping or noise-making a no-problem? I realize that the interface is problematic functionality-wise. Do you find this the case? My interest is not so much exercise quality (although I do spend 5+ hours at the gym each week.) But I would like something that was affordable (college student), and was in the gigs as far as storage so I figured HDD was gonna be required. It absolutely MUST play ogg though. Originally I had considered a Rio Karma, but this was when I had just started looking (week ago). I checked out amazon.com, epinions, and "independent" review sites and found out the drives they use are shoddy and can't expect to work after 3 months. From there I kept hearing a lot of good things about the iRiver and then Neuros. I know the Xiph Foundation has worked with both intimately, iRiver preceeding Neuros, so ogg probably works swell on both. I guess I'm leading iRiver but it is 50 more d?lares. - as - _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dtgm at comcast.net Sun Sep 5 23:04:06 2004 From: dtgm at comcast.net (Adam Shrode) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mp3 player recommendations In-Reply-To: <1469cda204090515424680477d@mail.gmail.com> References: <20040905012224.6a7d9151.ston0235@umn.edu> <1094390160.4896.50.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1469cda204090515424680477d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <413BE1B6.2070600@comcast.net> Thomas Johnson wrote: >As a new owner of an iRiver H120 (20gb HDD, as of last night), I have >to say that I am very pleased with it. The package came with plenty of >goodies, headphone adaptors, extra earbud condoms, a pleather carrying >case, etc. The transfer speed seems quite good, 9~10meg/s over usb2. >It seems to function well, the menus are generally pretty intuitive. I >know you (Ian) said you were looking for a flash player, but I just >had to throw my two cents in. > >Going somewhat OT, I though I'd seen a project on SF to build the >database file for the H1xx units. Looking again I can't seem to find >it. Does such a thing exist and does any one have linkage for it? > > I googled for exactly what you asked and got 4 results back. One of them being http://www.playerblog.com/archives/000119.shtml ... that pointed me to ... https://sourceforge.net/projects/tdt/ - as - _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From JREYNOLDS5 at mn.rr.com Mon Sep 6 07:05:13 2004 From: JREYNOLDS5 at mn.rr.com (JREYNOLDS5@mn.rr.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: XP Home license key Message-ID: <11877641184376.11843761187764@rdc-kc.rr.com> Questions: Any one else ever have this problem? Is there an OEM Version of XP Home or something that needs to be used rather than the standard XP Home? The Answer is yes there is an OEM Version. There are actually a few different versions of windows XP when it comes to license codes. OEM, Upgrade, Full and Corporate. You just need to get yourself a hold of a oem copy of xp to use that key. I have to do that at work all the time. :) jason reynolds -------------- next part -------------- Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From JREYNOLDS5 at mn.rr.com Mon Sep 6 07:29:53 2004 From: JREYNOLDS5 at mn.rr.com (JREYNOLDS5@mn.rr.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: XP Home license key (more info) Message-ID: <125185c125526b.125526b125185c@rdc-kc.rr.com> Ok, here are a few things I'd like to inject into this. There is a cd on the internet called an 8-in-1 Windows XP install disc. It contains multiple versions of windows xp to be installed on a computer. It contains Windows xp pro (oem, upgrade, full, corporate), windows xp home (oem, upgrade, full), windows media center, and some even have some extra utilities. Finding it may not be the easiest but it is out there. Microsoft isn't putting this tool out there, and as usual they are pretty clueless that techs need this. This allows a tech to attempt a repair install of windows on those compaq, hp, sony etc.. that don't have a "real" xp cd. This prevents me from having to do a restore or a format/install of windows xp. This is especially important for those business clients that can't afford to reinstall and import all their data. It also allows someone to install a Fresh copy of windows xp onto these machines that have all that crap software. I hate these computers that people buy that has a desktop with 12+ icons on it when they only use m$ word and internet exploder. Hope this helps. jason reynolds -------------- next part -------------- Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tpenney at gmail.com Mon Sep 6 11:23:10 2004 From: tpenney at gmail.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: XP Home license key (more info) In-Reply-To: <125185c125526b.125526b125185c@rdc-kc.rr.com> References: <125185c125526b.125526b125185c@rdc-kc.rr.com> Message-ID: <5c596d0e04090609235f1dec68@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 07:29:53 -0500, jreynolds5@mn.rr.com wrote: > Ok, here are a few things I'd like to inject into this. > > There is a cd on the internet called an 8-in-1 Windows XP install disc. It contains multiple versions of windows xp to be installed on a computer. It contains Windows xp pro (oem, upgrade, full, corporate), windows xp home (oem, upgrade, full), windows media center, and some even have some extra utilities. Finding it may not be the easiest but it is out there. Microsoft isn't putting this tool out there, and as usual they are pretty clueless that techs need this. > This is exactly what a person like myself needs. On many occasions I have had to buy another copy of Windows XP because clients have lost the cd and or the product key. There is no way to tell which cd you need if all you have is the Key. also not all versions of XP come with a sticker to stick on the box. I have absolutely no desire to try to cheat MS out of any licence fees. People who use windows understand that they need to pay MS to use it. But, if a legitimate licence is owned by the client they should not have to pay for another one on the same machine. Which brings me to my point about what really bugs me about MS. They DO have a clue that techs need something like this, how could they not. This cd is not easily available to techs because it would prevent people from buying additional duplicate licences of MS Products. So many A+ Techs I've meet are so afraid of breaking MS Agreements and losing there cretifcation that they habitually make clients buy duplicate licences which they already own. Use Linux!!! PS: OEM version of MS products, office included, are tied to the hardware, if you replace the box you have to replace the Licence with new ones. -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com Mon Sep 6 11:36:49 2004 From: tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com (Robert D. De Mars) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: XP Home license key (more info) In-Reply-To: <5c596d0e04090609235f1dec68@mail.gmail.com> References: <125185c125526b.125526b125185c@rdc-kc.rr.com> <5c596d0e04090609235f1dec68@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <413C9221.8000508@b-o-b.homelinux.com> Tom Penney wrote: > PS: OEM version of MS products, office included, are tied to the > hardware, if you replace the box you have to replace the Licence with > new ones. > Indeed. Also note that more than 3 hardware changes to any given box with XP will have to do the same as well.... :( Adios, Robert De Mars -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= http://b-o-b.homelinux.com Lat 45:09N / Long 93:18W -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at nomeaning.net Mon Sep 6 12:52:23 2004 From: tclug at nomeaning.net (Eric Lambart) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian question In-Reply-To: <20040903191218.GA13463@refried.org> References: <3f0ccce00409031032c952efb@mail.gmail.com> <20040903180246.GA11992@refried.org> <1094237213.3535.15.camel@wkstn1> <20040903191218.GA13463@refried.org> Message-ID: <1094493143.3356.19.camel@thinky> On Fri, 2004-09-03 at 14:12 -0500, nate@refried.org wrote: > On Fri, Sep 03, 2004 at 01:46:53PM -0500, Eric Lambart wrote: (snip) > > Hello to all by the way, I am a recent escapee from California. Arrived > > in Minneapolis a few weeks ago, just signed up to the list today. > > Welcome to Minnesota. I hope you didn't miss the week of summer we get > each year. ;) Thanks, Nate and Joel! But, hmmmm... I've been here almost four weeks and all this time it's felt like some of the nicest summer weather I've seen in a long while. I thought the story was that you only got one week each of spring and autumn here, and the other 50 weeks were winter and summer? I'm glad to see this is such an active group. Eric _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Mon Sep 6 12:57:34 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] business stuff In-Reply-To: <200409052204.34079.jack@jacku.com> References: <413B9C12.30803@tcq.net> <200409052204.34079.jack@jacku.com> Message-ID: <914f813c040906105717b5216b@mail.gmail.com> MN SoS also puts out a publication entitled Starting a Business in Minnesota (or something similar) that goes through the logistics and differences between things like a sole proprietorship, incorporation, partnership, limited liability partnership (LLP), limited liability corporation (LLC), and others. This is where you might start once you've determined what your market is, feasibility of success, etc. You might also assemble your ideas and approach area businesses that could either sponsor/fund you for a cut, or buy out your idea outright. Or license, too, I suppose. If I were to do this, I'd ensure my patents have been filed for first though. Best of luck! On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 22:04:33 -0500, Jack Ungerleider wrote: > On Sunday 05 September 2004 06:06 pm, Kraig Jones wrote: > > SCORE. IIRC that's "Service Corps of Retired Executives". Look them up > > in the phone book. I know they have an office in St. Louis Park or > > Minnetonka, probably more in the area. Tremendous resource. Much free > > advise, and a seminar on starting a business, for a reasonable price. > > > > Kraig > > I'll second the comment on SCORE. They usually have ties to the Small Business > Administration which can be a source of loans as well as advice. > > Also visit the MN Secretary of State's web site. (Use Google for the URL) > You'll need to file paperwork with the State to start your business and SoS > office sets the rules. If I remember right, you can download most of the > necessary forms in PDF format from that site. > > -- > Jack Ungerleider > jack@jacku.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- John T. Hoffoss _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at nomeaning.net Mon Sep 6 13:01:27 2004 From: tclug at nomeaning.net (Eric Lambart) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mp3 player recommendations In-Reply-To: <20040905012224.6a7d9151.ston0235@umn.edu> References: <20040905012224.6a7d9151.ston0235@umn.edu> Message-ID: <1094493687.3356.29.camel@thinky> On Sun, 2004-09-05 at 01:22 -0500, Ian Stoner wrote: > I would like to get an 128 or 256 MB mp3 player to take along while > running or engaging in other forms of monotonous physical activity. It > has to support GNU/Linux, which, as I understand it, means it has to > function as a USB mass-storage device. It has to be reasonably durable. > I'd prefer that it plays ogg vorbis in addition to mp3. > > I've been looking at the Creative Nomad/Muvo, which definitely meet the > first criterion, dunno about the second, and they fail the third. Does > anyone have experience with the Nomads? Are there players that people > like better? I don't know about their flash players, but I've got the Diamond Rio Karma 20GB player, and it is awesome. Not only does it do USB2 (not as file storage, per se, though for some reason they are apparently planning to switch to a "normal" FAT-based filesystem in the future), but the base unit has a built in ethernet port (!), which makes it super easy to connect (and results in faster xfer for those who only have USB1) to a linux box. You don't *need* the base unit to charge it. And though it doesn't use a standard file system, it does have a "Rio taxi" feature that allows you to use the unit for non-audio file transport. I've never used that. They have an officially sanctioned "lite" cross-platform (Java) player that is (somewhat?) open-source, and works very well in linux (the "full" software suite is Windows-only, and I've never used it). It's intuitive and a breeze to use. I use the latest development version, which doesn't have the official stamp of approval yet. The operating interface on the unit itself is fantastic. Oh, and it does support Ogg of course. That's one of the main reasons I bought it. I had one of the original Diamond Rios and as truly *useless* as that unit was IMO, I was favorably impressed at that time by Diamond's engineering--and VERY grateful for their having won the lawsuit that legalized portable digital audio players. I didn't read any reviews on the Karma until I already brought it home, but I found this one on the web that sums up the Karma really well, and has heart-warming things to say about Diamond's engineering team as well: http://lonelymachines.org/karma.html I believe Diamond also produces flash RAM models, and if that's what you're set on getting, I suggest at least check out Diamond's offerings. If they're anywhere near as good as the Karma, you'll be stoked. Eric _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tpenney at gmail.com Mon Sep 6 14:25:36 2004 From: tpenney at gmail.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] business stuff In-Reply-To: <914f813c040906105717b5216b@mail.gmail.com> References: <413B9C12.30803@tcq.net> <200409052204.34079.jack@jacku.com> <914f813c040906105717b5216b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5c596d0e04090612252a6f4bbf@mail.gmail.com> Id second the SCORE resource. We have gotten some outstanding advice from them. Remember, Million dollar Ideas are a dime a dozen. It's implementing the Idea that is worth the million. This sounds obvious but... Plan what steps need to be done before you can realize a positive cash flow. plan out each individual step and figure out how long it will take you realistically, and if you would be the best person to complete each step. If you find you have miscalculated one step go back and redo your plan with the knowledge you have gained. Start an entity like an llc, or at least a checking account, to keep track of things. Remember you have to eat though the process. Now is it something you can do in your spare time? Is it something you can afford to finance? If you have to get outside funds protect yourself with a non disclosure agreement before telling your idea to anyone with money, because if you don't nothing stops them from pursuing your Idea themselves. Keep taking steps every day until you run into a wall then step back and find a way around the wall. good luck! -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From austad at signal15.com Mon Sep 6 14:37:12 2004 From: austad at signal15.com (Jay Austad) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mp3 player recommendations In-Reply-To: <1094493687.3356.29.camel@thinky> References: <20040905012224.6a7d9151.ston0235@umn.edu> <1094493687.3356.29.camel@thinky> Message-ID: <261D7596-003C-11D9-9BA1-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> One of the things people complain about with the karma is the scrolly wheel on the side is cheap. They break easily and they wear out. A friend of mine went through 3 of them under warranty. He didn't use the vorbis stuff anyway, so he sold it and got an ipod mini instead. Personally, I love my ipod. One of the advantages to buying the ipod, is if you ever decide you hate it, you can get almost what you paid for it on ebay. This little app makes the ipod even more useful: http://www.kainjow.com/pod2go/ On Sep 6, 2004, at 1:01 PM, Eric Lambart wrote: > On Sun, 2004-09-05 at 01:22 -0500, Ian Stoner wrote: >> I would like to get an 128 or 256 MB mp3 player to take along while >> running or engaging in other forms of monotonous physical activity. >> It >> has to support GNU/Linux, which, as I understand it, means it has to >> function as a USB mass-storage device. It has to be reasonably >> durable. >> I'd prefer that it plays ogg vorbis in addition to mp3. >> >> I've been looking at the Creative Nomad/Muvo, which definitely meet >> the >> first criterion, dunno about the second, and they fail the third. >> Does >> anyone have experience with the Nomads? Are there players that people >> like better? > > I don't know about their flash players, but I've got the Diamond Rio > Karma 20GB player, and it is awesome. > > Not only does it do USB2 (not as file storage, per se, though for some > reason they are apparently planning to switch to a "normal" FAT-based > filesystem in the future), but the base unit has a built in ethernet > port (!), which makes it super easy to connect (and results in faster > xfer for those who only have USB1) to a linux box. You don't *need* > the > base unit to charge it. And though it doesn't use a standard file > system, it does have a "Rio taxi" feature that allows you to use the > unit for non-audio file transport. I've never used that. > > They have an officially sanctioned "lite" cross-platform (Java) player > that is (somewhat?) open-source, and works very well in linux (the > "full" software suite is Windows-only, and I've never used it). It's > intuitive and a breeze to use. I use the latest development version, > which doesn't have the official stamp of approval yet. > > The operating interface on the unit itself is fantastic. Oh, and it > does support Ogg of course. That's one of the main reasons I bought > it. > > I had one of the original Diamond Rios and as truly *useless* as that > unit was IMO, I was favorably impressed at that time by Diamond's > engineering--and VERY grateful for their having won the lawsuit that > legalized portable digital audio players. I didn't read any reviews on > the Karma until I already brought it home, but I found this one on the > web that sums up the Karma really well, and has heart-warming things to > say about Diamond's engineering team as well: > > http://lonelymachines.org/karma.html > > I believe Diamond also produces flash RAM models, and if that's what > you're set on getting, I suggest at least check out Diamond's > offerings. > If they're anywhere near as good as the Karma, you'll be stoked. > > Eric > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From austad at signal15.com Mon Sep 6 15:13:45 2004 From: austad at signal15.com (Jay Austad) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] business stuff In-Reply-To: <5c596d0e04090612252a6f4bbf@mail.gmail.com> References: <413B9C12.30803@tcq.net> <200409052204.34079.jack@jacku.com> <914f813c040906105717b5216b@mail.gmail.com> <5c596d0e04090612252a6f4bbf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <417E2702-0041-11D9-9BA1-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> Awesome, thanks. I'll look into this. -jay On Sep 6, 2004, at 2:25 PM, Tom Penney wrote: > Id second the SCORE resource. We have gotten some outstanding advice > from them. > > Remember, Million dollar Ideas are a dime a dozen. It's implementing > the Idea that is worth the million. > > This sounds obvious but... Plan what steps need to be done before you > can realize a positive cash flow. plan out each individual step and > figure out how long it will take you realistically, and if you would > be the best person to complete each step. If you find you have > miscalculated one step go back and redo your plan with the knowledge > you have gained. Start an entity like an llc, or at least a checking > account, to keep track of things. Remember you have to eat though the > process. > > Now is it something you can do in your spare time? Is it something you > can afford to finance? If you have to get outside funds protect > yourself with a non disclosure agreement before telling your idea to > anyone with money, because if you don't nothing stops them from > pursuing your Idea themselves. > > Keep taking steps every day until you run into a wall then step back > and find a way around the wall. > > good luck! > -- > Tom Penney > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at nomeaning.net Mon Sep 6 15:29:15 2004 From: tclug at nomeaning.net (Eric Lambart) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mp3 player recommendations In-Reply-To: <261D7596-003C-11D9-9BA1-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> References: <20040905012224.6a7d9151.ston0235@umn.edu> <1094493687.3356.29.camel@thinky> <261D7596-003C-11D9-9BA1-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> Message-ID: <1094502555.3356.39.camel@thinky> On Mon, 2004-09-06 at 14:37 -0500, Jay Austad wrote: > One of the things people complain about with the karma is the scrolly > wheel on the side is cheap. They break easily and they wear out. A > friend of mine went through 3 of them under warranty. He didn't use > the vorbis stuff anyway, so he sold it and got an ipod mini instead. Hmmm... on Karmas or Vaios, I've never found the scroll wheel to be of any use for anything. Not my sort of user interface I guess (love the wheel on my PC's trackball though). But thanks for the warning, if I ever use it I'll try to be extra nice. Eric _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From waynej at dccmn.com Mon Sep 6 18:12:12 2004 From: waynej at dccmn.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Best mobo for an AMD Athlon64 Message-ID: <4062.192.1.1.28.1094512332.squirrel@dccmn.com> Well, we've discuessed the best distro for AMD64. Now, how about turning it around. I saw General Nano offering an Athlon 64 for $499 (http://www.nanosys1.com/sys-h2825.html) and it got me looking at Athlon 64 mobos. Anyone got any suggestions? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Mon Sep 6 20:00:10 2004 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mp3 player recommendations In-Reply-To: <20040905012224.6a7d9151.ston0235@umn.edu> References: <20040905012224.6a7d9151.ston0235@umn.edu> Message-ID: <20040907010010.GA24573@fandre.com> I have the iRiver iFP-390 and love it. iRiver just released their UMS firmware for it that supports ogg (as well as mp3) and it works great. There is also a project to allow you to upload/download to their non-UMS firmware, but it's pretty bleading-edge. As far as the iFP-390 goes, it rocks. It has 256Meg, runs off one AA, and last longer than I can count. I run with it and it's light enough to forget about. Plus I can drop it and it usually gets caught by the headphone cord before it hits the ground. My only two complaints is it is only USB1.1, which makes loading a little slow, and I wish it had a little more memory. I should have went with the iFP-395, which has 512Megs. Oh well. -- Clay On Sun, 05 Sep 2004, Ian Stoner wrote: > I would like to get an 128 or 256 MB mp3 player to take along while > running or engaging in other forms of monotonous physical activity. It > has to support GNU/Linux, which, as I understand it, means it has to > function as a USB mass-storage device. It has to be reasonably durable. > I'd prefer that it plays ogg vorbis in addition to mp3. > > I've been looking at the Creative Nomad/Muvo, which definitely meet the > first criterion, dunno about the second, and they fail the third. Does > anyone have experience with the Nomads? Are there players that people > like better? > > -- > Ian Stoner > Philosophy Department > University of Minnesota > http://www.tc.umn.edu/~ston0235/ > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kfuchs at winternet.com Mon Sep 6 21:18:45 2004 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Best mobo for an AMD Athlon64 In-Reply-To: <4062.192.1.1.28.1094512332.squirrel@dccmn.com> (waynej@dccmn.com) References: <4062.192.1.1.28.1094512332.squirrel@dccmn.com> Message-ID: <200409070218.i872IjX03244@ecstasy1.winternet.com> >Well, we've discussed the best distro for AMD64. Now, how about turning >it around. >I saw General Nano offering an Athlon 64 for $499 >(http://www.nanosys1.com/sys-h2825.html) and it got me looking at Athlon >64 mobos. >Anyone got any suggestions? Tyan S2885 featuring a complete AMD-8000 chipset (AMD-8111, AMD-8131 and AMD-8151), SATA with optional RAID, AGP 8x slot, four PCI-X slots, one PCI slot, eight DDR-SDRAM slots, two 940 Opteron sockets, one GbE, one FireWire, five USB 1.1, AC97, Winbound Super I/O, hardware monitoring, and an AMI 4Mb BIOS. http://www.tyan.com/products/html/thunderk8w.html This board is available from http://www.monarchcomputer.com/ for little more than $400. Check http://www.pricewatch.com/ yourself. Monarch Computer has some experience with building machines for Linux (has been featured in Linux Journal a few times). Sincerely, Ken Fuchs _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Tue Sep 7 07:22:48 2004 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PCMCIA modem Message-ID: <413DA818.5090902@structural-wood.com> I just noticed my internal laptop modem doesn't work under fedora core. I'm about to head out of town and could use a working modem. Does anyone have any recommendations for a PCMCIA modem that can be dropped into a fedora core 1 machine and is available locally in the twin cities? I need it by friday. Thanks Kent _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From olwe at cpinternet.com Tue Sep 7 07:22:36 2004 From: olwe at cpinternet.com (Olwe Melwasul) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] yum across LAN? Message-ID: <413DA80C.1020108@cpinternet.com> I'm doing a yum update. It's big. I don't want to do it twice for both boxes. How can I yum across my LAN? I know the first full yum update will fill up a cache, but how can I direct the second yum update to that box's yum cache? Olwe _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andyzib at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 08:43:27 2004 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] yum across LAN? In-Reply-To: <413DA80C.1020108@cpinternet.com> References: <413DA80C.1020108@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: Not sure about directing yum at another boxes yum cache, but you could setup squid and have it cache large files. I do this with windows updates myself... Not exactly what you're looking for, but something to think about down the road. -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andyzib at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 08:53:21 2004 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: XP Home license key (more info) In-Reply-To: <413C9221.8000508@b-o-b.homelinux.com> References: <125185c125526b.125526b125185c@rdc-kc.rr.com> <5c596d0e04090609235f1dec68@mail.gmail.com> <413C9221.8000508@b-o-b.homelinux.com> Message-ID: > > PS: OEM version of MS products, office included, are tied to the > > hardware, if you replace the box you have to replace the Licence with > > new ones. > > Indeed. Also note that more than 3 hardware > changes to any given box with XP will have to do > the same as well.... :( I recently transferred Win XP (Pro) from my now dedicated Linux machine to my Girlfriends computer.WinXP activated over the internet no problem...I didn't even have to call Microsoft. YYMV of course, but Microsoft activation isn't as bad as some people would have you belive. -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andyzib at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 09:03:40 2004 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mp3 player recommendations In-Reply-To: <20040907010010.GA24573@fandre.com> References: <20040905012224.6a7d9151.ston0235@umn.edu> <20040907010010.GA24573@fandre.com> Message-ID: I have a Nomad MuVo myself (256mb). For a music device to use durring a workout, it simply rocks. It doesn't support OGG no, but it didn't take long to reencode all my CDs either. I actually dropped down to 128 VBR mp3s to get a few extr songs out of that 256mb... It mounts just find as a USB mass storage device, worlds easier than in windows. Even WinXP won't just detect the MuVo and run with it...have to install Creative's software, etc. (Maybe it's better in SP2, but not holding my breath.) The battery live off one AAA battery is very nice. 6+ hours at least. OGG support isn't there yes...but I can live with that. For the size and price, I'm happy with it. It's great for workouts. For day to day stuff though, I've consolidated and moved over to my Treo 600 for my protable MP3/OGG player. Works quite well. One SD card has mp3s, the other has Audible audio books and radio broadcasts. Cool stuff. But I would never ever take my Treo running. :) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jim at herrick.net Tue Sep 7 09:16:53 2004 From: jim at herrick.net (Jim Herrick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] yum across LAN? References: <413DA80C.1020108@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: <002101c494e5$54eaeb80$73252893@FUNA08205SCN402> A couple of good threads: http://lists.terrasoftsolutions.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/2003-October/010419.html http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/2003-November/msg06064.html The consensus seems to be creating a local repository... I guess I'd switch back to a "live" repository afterwards. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olwe Melwasul" To: Sent: Tuesday, 07 September, 2004 14:22 Subject: [TCLUG] yum across LAN? > I'm doing a yum update. It's big. I don't want to do it twice for both > boxes. How can I yum across my LAN? I know the first full yum update > will fill up a cache, but how can I direct the second yum update to that > box's yum cache? > > Olwe > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Tue Sep 7 09:24:57 2004 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] yum across LAN? In-Reply-To: References: <413DA80C.1020108@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Sep 2004, Andrew Zbikowski wrote: > Not sure about directing yum at another boxes yum cache, but you could > setup squid and have it cache large files. I do this with windows > updates myself... Just curious, anything special you need to do to cache windows updates? In my experience, each Windows box uses a unique URL when grabbing updates, so Squid doesn't catch it.. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Tue Sep 7 09:21:57 2004 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Best mobo for an AMD Athlon64 In-Reply-To: <4062.192.1.1.28.1094512332.squirrel@dccmn.com> References: <4062.192.1.1.28.1094512332.squirrel@dccmn.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Sep 2004, Wayne Johnson wrote: > Well, we've discuessed the best distro for AMD64. Now, how about > turning it around. > > I saw General Nano offering an Athlon 64 for $499 > (http://www.nanosys1.com/sys-h2825.html) and it got me looking at Athlon > 64 mobos. > > Anyone got any suggestions? I'm running a MSI K8T Neo-FIS2R, pretty decent board. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From michaelb at real-time.com Tue Sep 7 10:37:32 2004 From: michaelb at real-time.com (michaelb@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Best mobo for an AMD Athlon64 In-Reply-To: <4062.192.1.1.28.1094512332.squirrel@dccmn.com> References: <4062.192.1.1.28.1094512332.squirrel@dccmn.com> Message-ID: <1094571452.413dd5bc8fa64@webmail.real-time.com> Quoting Wayne Johnson : > I saw General Nano offering an Athlon 64 for $499 > (http://www.nanosys1.com/sys-h2825.html) and it got me looking at Athlon > 64 mobos. > > Anyone got any suggestions? AMD uses the following for there published SPECint_2000 benchmarks: Athlon 64 3200+ MSI K8 Neo (MS-6702) Athlon 64 FX-53 MSI K8T Neo2-FIR (MS-6702E) I've never used either of the motherboards, but I suspect there might be some technical reasons AMD choose to use them. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.meier at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 11:02:12 2004 From: john.meier at gmail.com (meierjo) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Software RAID 1 and mount point not found error In-Reply-To: <65293fcc04090313292fabc27@mail.gmail.com> References: <65293fcc04090313292fabc27@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65293fcc04090709027a7936e2@mail.gmail.com> answering my own question. On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 15:29:06 -0500, meierjo wrote: > Then mount up each raid device in /mnt and copy appropriate data over: > > cp -axu /boot /mnt/md0 > cp -axu / /mnt/md1 > cp -axu /usr /mnt/md2 > cp -axu /home /mnt/md3 > cp -axu /var /mnt/md4 > cp -axu /usr/local /mnt/md5 > cp -axu /tmp /mnt/md6 > The above cp is where I went wrong. I was copying each directory as a sub directory to the mount point with the above commands - I needed to user: cp -axu /usr/* /mnt/md2 etc once the partitions were copied over to the raid devices properly I was able to boot up using the RAID devices then add the origianl partitions to the array and be RAID1 across the board. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andyzib at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 11:11:04 2004 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] yum across LAN? In-Reply-To: References: <413DA80C.1020108@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: All I did was set maximum_object_size to something obscene like 50mb. Loading up the windows update interface always seems to bypass the squid server, but downloading the actual updates come from the squid server. The instant downloads and griding squid box confirm that well enough. :) It worked with v4 of windows update, haven't tried it with v5, mostly because after applying Service Pack 2 there isn't much left to patch. (Windows Update v5 went live with the release of Service Pack 2.) -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Tue Sep 7 11:26:25 2004 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] yum across LAN? In-Reply-To: References: <413DA80C.1020108@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Sep 2004, Andrew Zbikowski wrote: > All I did was set maximum_object_size to something obscene like 50mb. > Loading up the windows update interface always seems to bypass the squid > server, but downloading the actual updates come from the squid server. > The instant downloads and griding squid box confirm that well enough. :) Hmm, interesting - my object size is set to 100mb (if I recall correctly), and the updates still don't seem to come from my Squid server. Do you have the proxy configured in IE, or are you using a transparent proxy? My experience has been with transparent - maybe IE does something differently if it knows it has a proxy? -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tpenney at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 11:33:32 2004 From: tpenney at gmail.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: XP Home license key (more info) In-Reply-To: References: <125185c125526b.125526b125185c@rdc-kc.rr.com> <5c596d0e04090609235f1dec68@mail.gmail.com> <413C9221.8000508@b-o-b.homelinux.com> Message-ID: <5c596d0e0409070933108ba699@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 08:53:21 -0500, Andrew Zbikowski wrote: > I recently transferred Win XP (Pro) from my now dedicated Linux > machine to my Girlfriends computer.WinXP activated over the internet > no problem...I didn't even have to call Microsoft. YYMV of course, but > Microsoft activation isn't as bad as some people would have you > belive. It works, but it does break the licence agreement assuming that is a OEM version of XP Pro. It shouldn't, IMO, because you have uninstalled it from you Linux machine, but it does break the OEM licence agreement. They have no way of knowing if it the same box with hardware updates or a completely different machine. That will count as one of your 3 hardware changes. -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cschumann at twp-llc.com Tue Sep 7 11:41:41 2004 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: XP Home license key (more info) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 08:53:21 -0500 > From: Andrew Zbikowski > > > PS: OEM version of MS products, office included, are tied to the > > > hardware, if you replace the box you have to replace the Licence > > > with new ones. > > > > Indeed. Also note that more than 3 hardware changes to any given box > > with XP will have to do the same as well.... :( > > I recently transferred Win XP (Pro) from my now dedicated Linux machine > to my Girlfriends computer.WinXP activated over the internet no > problem...I didn't even have to call Microsoft. YYMV of course, but > Microsoft activation isn't as bad as some people would have you belive. (Your *what* may vary?) OEM MS products are tied to the hardware by the licensing terms. There is no software mechanism preventing you from moving the software. Activation may come into play, but it may not. I moved a hard drive with XP Pro on it from one laptop to another, changing motherboard, CPU from PII to PIII, PCI chipset, display controller, CardBus controller and who knows what else. XP Pro noticed and installed the new hardware and didn't make a peep about the changes or activation. In any case, the anecdotal evidence I have so far is that Windows XP Pro product ID's will allow activation five times and Office product ID's will allow activation twice before you have to make a call. The license for Office explicitly allows for two installations. One is supposed to be on a portable machine, and you are not supposed to use them at the same time. Chris Schumann _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lclemens at mn.rr.com Tue Sep 7 11:42:39 2004 From: lclemens at mn.rr.com (Lawrence Clemens) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: XP Home license key (more info) References: <125185c125526b.125526b125185c@rdc-kc.rr.com> <5c596d0e04090609235f1dec68@mail.gmail.com> <413C9221.8000508@b-o-b.homelinux.com> Message-ID: <000601c494f9$b06ae6e0$24fea8c0@selfp6xu3g1ng9> I think after 120 days a second activation can be carried out on the same XP license, despite a complete hardware change. At least for a license that was purchased separately from the machine. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Zbikowski" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 8:53 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] OT: XP Home license key (more info) > > > PS: OEM version of MS products, office included, are tied to the > > > hardware, if you replace the box you have to replace the Licence with > > > new ones. > > > > Indeed. Also note that more than 3 hardware > > changes to any given box with XP will have to do > > the same as well.... :( > > I recently transferred Win XP (Pro) from my now dedicated Linux > machine to my Girlfriends computer.WinXP activated over the internet > no problem...I didn't even have to call Microsoft. YYMV of course, but > Microsoft activation isn't as bad as some people would have you > belive. > > -- > Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us > A password is like your underwear; Change it > frequently, don't share it with others, and > don't ask to borrow someone else's. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andyzib at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 12:08:32 2004 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] yum across LAN? In-Reply-To: References: <413DA80C.1020108@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: I configure the proxy in IE. I only use the proxy for patching new WinXP installs...most updates go through the SUS server...which is also configured to use the squid proxy. From what you say, IE must behave differently when it knows it's going through a proxy server for windows update... -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 12:54:10 2004 From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More Gmail invites... Message-ID: <32fd45370409071054d341722@mail.gmail.com> Got another 6...holler if ya want one. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dave at math.umn.edu Tue Sep 7 13:03:21 2004 From: dave at math.umn.edu (Dave Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mp3 player recommendations In-Reply-To: <1094502555.3356.39.camel@thinky> References: <20040905012224.6a7d9151.ston0235@umn.edu> <261D7596-003C-11D9-9BA1-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> <1094502555.3356.39.camel@thinky> Message-ID: <200409071303.21732.dave@math.umn.edu> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 06 September 2004 03:29 pm, Eric Lambart wrote: > On Mon, 2004-09-06 at 14:37 -0500, Jay Austad wrote: > > One of the things people complain about with the karma is the scrolly > > wheel on the side is cheap. They break easily and they wear out. A > > friend of mine went through 3 of them under warranty. He didn't use > > the vorbis stuff anyway, so he sold it and got an ipod mini instead. > > Hmmm... on Karmas or Vaios, I've never found the scroll wheel to be of > any use for anything. Not my sort of user interface I guess (love the > wheel on my PC's trackball though). But thanks for the warning, if I > ever use it I'll try to be extra nice. Mine has broken twice - I just 'upgraded' the glue (it was ultrasonically welded in two small places) on the inside and I'm pretty hopeful. It's a badly-designed part but easily the least-used in my case. I definitely try to steer clear of using it for any hard-drive-unfriendly activities, though. I have never used it in Windows - the Java mini-client (downloadable from the player's web server (ethernet) does just fine for me. I also bought an extra dock (either $40 or $50) and have it mounted in my car, which has worked well so far. - -- - -dave Dave Carlson Systems Administrator School of Mathematics, University of Minnesota http://www.math.umn.edu 8 Vincent Hall Computer Support Requests: 612-625-4895 Cell Phone: 612-747-5415 (personal) E-mail Pager: 6127475415@mobile.att.net PGP/GPG Fingerprint: C3D0 9962 1E98 B742 132D 0E1A CE11 7C4B 5309 97A7 (visit http://www.gnupg.org for more information) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBPffpzhF8S1MJl6cRApzSAJ9fWCaLpvuC3W1TH87IuOiFiZbdhQCdGJ1t MqHUYz5oJEsEt1DlyodF0UQ= =fSHI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dave at math.umn.edu Tue Sep 7 13:15:37 2004 From: dave at math.umn.edu (Dave Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: XP Home license key (more info) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200409071315.37483.dave@math.umn.edu> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > (Your *what* may vary?) Your Yardage May Vary? Seems appropriate. - -- - -dave Dave Carlson Systems Administrator School of Mathematics, University of Minnesota http://www.math.umn.edu 8 Vincent Hall Computer Support Requests: 612-625-4895 Cell Phone: 612-747-5415 (personal) E-mail Pager: 6127475415@mobile.att.net PGP/GPG Fingerprint: C3D0 9962 1E98 B742 132D 0E1A CE11 7C4B 5309 97A7 (visit http://www.gnupg.org for more information) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBPfrJzhF8S1MJl6cRAtTcAJ41B9tW3SEXQ3HGD3BhentdkUvQyQCfciyu f9NQjLY0f42RbHr9dT0pfz8= =on4L -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Tue Sep 7 14:13:31 2004 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Which VNC? Message-ID: <20040907141331.0000125c@schubert> Anyone have strong opinions about the different VNC implementations out there? I've seen: RealVNC UltraVNC TightVNC I think I've used RealVNC before and it was OK, not great though, was going to give TightVNC a try but curious if any TCLUG'ers had good/bad experiences to share? Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tpenney at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 14:29:17 2004 From: tpenney at gmail.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More Gmail invites... In-Reply-To: <32fd45370409071054d341722@mail.gmail.com> References: <32fd45370409071054d341722@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5c596d0e04090712293798f39c@mail.gmail.com> Me too, Let me know if you need invites. On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 12:54:10 -0500, Keith Bachman wrote: > Got another 6...holler if ya want one. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rwh at visi.com Tue Sep 7 14:32:34 2004 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: mp3 player recommendations In-Reply-To: <200409071303.21732.dave@math.umn.edu> References: <20040905012224.6a7d9151.ston0235@umn.edu> <261D7596-003C-11D9-9BA1-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> <1094502555.3356.39.camel@thinky> <200409071303.21732.dave@math.umn.edu> Message-ID: <413E0CD2.5090801@visi.com> I've had a number or Rio products and I'd be hard pressed to buy another one. I had one of the original 300MP units, the updated version sold as the Rio One and a Rio 500. The 500 is the only one that still works, although the display is a bit flaky and the behavior gets real odd at times but popping the battery out fixes it. Ironically, the RIO500 linux drivers work better than the Windows stuff from Rio and I've been able to recover a couple of hosed SmartMedia cards on Linux that Windows wouldn't touch. I have an Archos Jukebox which is big, bulky and generally a nuisance to use. The rockbox software makes it a bit more friendly, but for now I'm using it as a portable backup drive. I recently picked up one of the new 40GB iPods which is fantastic - I like having all of my music in one unit that can fit in my pocket. The one I use the most is a pseudo Creative Muvo2. A lot of folks were pulling the 4GB compact flash drives out of these for use in cameras. I picked up a driveless shell for $50 and a 512MB CF card for another $50. So for about $100 I have a very nice, small (2x2x3/4) unit that can hold 8 hours of MP3s, although I'll admit to using dbPowerAmp to get 16 hours of WMA files on the 512MB card. With some careful shopping you could probably get a 1GB card today for about $20 more than I paid. My nephew has an iRiver 790T which he loves. I think it was about $140 for a 256MB unit and he claims to get about 20+ hours off a single battery. I didn't think it was that much smaller than the Muvo - it is like a USB memory stick with a single AA battery case slapped on to the back. I think there is a slightly older model that only supports USB 1.1 that shows up on close-out from time to time for around $110 - $120 or so. Of those that I listed the iRiver is probably the only one that meets your needs - flash memory and OGG support. The few people I know with iRiver stuff seem to like it. I really like Rio the original company but I think the quality of the iRiver and Creative stuff among others is a much better value for the money. --rick _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik at ehanson.net Tue Sep 7 14:28:28 2004 From: erik at ehanson.net (Erik Hanson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Which VNC? In-Reply-To: <20040907141331.0000125c@schubert> References: <20040907141331.0000125c@schubert> Message-ID: <4772.216.70.45.162.1094585308.squirrel@216.70.45.162> I have used TightVNC and have been quite pleased with it. -Erik > Anyone have strong opinions about the different VNC implementations out > there? I've seen: > > RealVNC > UltraVNC > TightVNC > > I think I've used RealVNC before and it was OK, not great though, was > going to give TightVNC a try but curious if any TCLUG'ers had good/bad > experiences to share? > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 14:35:55 2004 From: jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com (Jeff Rasmussen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Which VNC? In-Reply-To: <20040907141331.0000125c@schubert> References: <20040907141331.0000125c@schubert> Message-ID: <9d6c8253040907123567210b4e@mail.gmail.com> I've used TightVNC and UltraVNC on Windows machines. UltraVNC seems to be better packaged for Windows. I have only used TightVNC on Linux which worked great. Jeff Rasmussen _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.meier at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 14:41:01 2004 From: john.meier at gmail.com (meierjo) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Which VNC? In-Reply-To: <4772.216.70.45.162.1094585308.squirrel@216.70.45.162> References: <20040907141331.0000125c@schubert> <4772.216.70.45.162.1094585308.squirrel@216.70.45.162> Message-ID: <65293fcc040907124156a7d769@mail.gmail.com> Very happy with tight - didn't know about Ultra - you've given me a nice afternoon diversion! On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 14:28:28 -0500 (CDT), Erik Hanson wrote: > I have used TightVNC and have been quite pleased with it. > > -Erik > > > > > Anyone have strong opinions about the different VNC implementations out > > there? I've seen: > > > > RealVNC > > UltraVNC > > TightVNC > > > > I think I've used RealVNC before and it was OK, not great though, was > > going to give TightVNC a try but curious if any TCLUG'ers had good/bad > > experiences to share? > > > > Josh > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erikerik at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 14:52:05 2004 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More Gmail invites... In-Reply-To: <5c596d0e04090712293798f39c@mail.gmail.com> References: <32fd45370409071054d341722@mail.gmail.com> <5c596d0e04090712293798f39c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 14:29:17 -0500, Tom Penney wrote: > Me too, Let me know if you need invites. I think at this point, you could send an email to any gmail account requesting an invite...seems like google's giving them out as fast as new people sign up. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From leif.t.johnson at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 14:46:20 2004 From: leif.t.johnson at gmail.com (Leif Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] qwest dsl/actiontec gt701-wg In-Reply-To: <20040906003534.GA20764@crito> References: <20040906003534.GA20764@crito> Message-ID: FYI. I emailed actiontec and they said: ================================================================= There are no plans to implement IPv6 in the firmware of the GT701-WG at this time. ================================================================= leif On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 19:35:34 -0500, Steven Cayford wrote: > On Sun, Sep 05, 2004 at 11:50:29AM -0500, Leif Johnson wrote: > > I turned off IPv6 and it works. What Mozilla are you using? I > > thought Mozilla used IPv6 by default. > > 1.6-5 from Debian unstable. > > > I'm going to email actiontec > > and whine that their router doesn't work. > > Good idea. I've been meaning to do that, but never got around to it. > > -steve > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 14:59:02 2004 From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More Gmail invites... In-Reply-To: References: <32fd45370409071054d341722@mail.gmail.com> <5c596d0e04090712293798f39c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32fd45370409071259456e02f6@mail.gmail.com> I'm on my third batch now, so yeah. After sending out your last one, give it 48-72 hours and ya got 6 more. Heh. On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 14:52:05 -0500, Erik Anderson wrote: > On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 14:29:17 -0500, Tom Penney wrote: > > Me too, Let me know if you need invites. > > I think at this point, you could send an email to any gmail account > requesting an invite...seems like google's giving them out as fast as > new people sign up. > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andyzib at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 14:55:34 2004 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Which VNC? In-Reply-To: <9d6c8253040907123567210b4e@mail.gmail.com> References: <20040907141331.0000125c@schubert> <9d6c8253040907123567210b4e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 14:35:55 -0500, Jeff Rasmussen wrote: > UltraVNC seems to be better packaged for Windows. http://www.ondemandsoftware.com/freele.asp For when doesn't provide an installer you can use via Group Policy (or you just want an automatic install...) UltraVNC has some interesting features though... NT Domain and Active Directory based security caught my eye. -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lists at gahlon.com Tue Sep 7 14:59:28 2004 From: lists at gahlon.com (Christopher A. Gahlon) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Which VNC? In-Reply-To: <9d6c8253040907123567210b4e@mail.gmail.com> References: <20040907141331.0000125c@schubert> <9d6c8253040907123567210b4e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200409071459.29001.lists@gahlon.com> On Tuesday 07 September 2004 14:35, Jeff Rasmussen wrote: > I have only used TightVNC on Linux which worked great. Ditto! Has handy command line options too... A heads up on Fedora (core 1 at least)... 'apt-get install vnc-server' gives you the one from http://www.realvnc.com/ Use Dag Wieers repository if you want the tightvnc-server package. http://dag.wieers.com/home-made/apt/ Direct link to download the packages: http://dag.wieers.com/packages/tightvnc/ Happy computing! -- Christopher A. Gahlon There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those that understand binary and those that don't. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erikerik at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 15:15:41 2004 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More Gmail invites... In-Reply-To: <32fd45370409071259456e02f6@mail.gmail.com> References: <32fd45370409071054d341722@mail.gmail.com> <5c596d0e04090712293798f39c@mail.gmail.com> <32fd45370409071259456e02f6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 14:59:02 -0500, Keith Bachman wrote: > I'm on my third batch now, so yeah. After sending out your last one, > give it 48-72 hours and ya got 6 more. Heh. How long do you think it'll be till gmail goes stable? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andyzib at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 15:32:19 2004 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache and PHP Message-ID: I'm running Geeklog on my personal website...a couple weeks ago I setup a bunch of RDF feeds. Looks like PHP got upgraded to 4.3.8 over the weekend (from whatever version of PHP was in Debian Woody), and the RDF feeds stopped working. To get them to work in the first place, I had the following in a .htaccess file: php_flag allow_url_fopen On tells me that allow_url_fopen if Off now. So my guess is that something changed that isn't allowing me to override that setting with a .htaccess file anymore. (I changed the global PHP config to enable allow_url_fopen, and things started working again. I'd rather leave the global as is with it disabled, and make .htaccess or something else to enable this option just for this directory. My apache entry for the site looks like: ServerName andy.zibnet.us DocumentRoot /project/web/zib/geeklog/public_html To try an get things working again I added: AllowOverride all That wasn't the answer...so I'm stuck for the moment. I'm hoping someone who knows apache and php configuration better than I is out there. :) -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Tue Sep 7 16:35:49 2004 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache and PHP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040907163549.00002c6f@schubert> On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 15:32:19 -0500 Andrew Zbikowski wrote: > I'm running Geeklog on my personal website...a couple weeks ago I > setup a bunch of RDF feeds. Looks like PHP got upgraded to 4.3.8 > over the weekend (from whatever version of PHP was in Debian Woody), > and the RDF feeds stopped working. > > To get them to work in the first place, I had the following in a > .htaccess file: > > php_flag allow_url_fopen On Definately a good question for TCPHP - www.tcphp.org. I'm not sure, but have you tried: php_admin_flag allow_url_fopen On Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From electrum at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 19:10:23 2004 From: electrum at gmail.com (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: XP Home license key (more info) In-Reply-To: <5c596d0e0409070933108ba699@mail.gmail.com> References: <125185c125526b.125526b125185c@rdc-kc.rr.com> <5c596d0e04090609235f1dec68@mail.gmail.com> <413C9221.8000508@b-o-b.homelinux.com> <5c596d0e0409070933108ba699@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <853e1ecc040907171019c9e6f7@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 11:33:32 -0500, Tom Penney wrote: > It works, but it does break the licence agreement assuming that is a > OEM version of XP Pro. What agreement? If you didn't sign a contract, then you have no agreement with Microsoft. The OEM agreement is between the OEM and Microsoft, not Microsoft and the end user. You are free to disregard any agreements you are not party to and use the software within the bounds of copyright law. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tpenney at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 20:47:33 2004 From: tpenney at gmail.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: XP Home license key (more info) In-Reply-To: <853e1ecc040907171019c9e6f7@mail.gmail.com> References: <125185c125526b.125526b125185c@rdc-kc.rr.com> <5c596d0e04090609235f1dec68@mail.gmail.com> <413C9221.8000508@b-o-b.homelinux.com> <5c596d0e0409070933108ba699@mail.gmail.com> <853e1ecc040907171019c9e6f7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5c596d0e040907184769ac159b@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 19:10:23 -0500, David Phillips wrote: > On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 11:33:32 -0500, Tom Penney wrote: > > It works, but it does break the licence agreement assuming that is a > > OEM version of XP Pro. > > What agreement? If you didn't sign a contract, then you have no > agreement with Microsoft. The OEM agreement is between the OEM and > Microsoft, not Microsoft and the end user. You are free to disregard > any agreements you are not party to and use the software within the > bounds of copyright law. IANAL. etc. etc. When you activate windows you have to click a box stating you agree to the end user agreement. according to microsofts bottomless legal resources this qualifies as a signature. If your machine came already activated either the manufacturer or the retailer is in violation of their reseller agreement. Whether it is legal to ignore the agreement or not, I would bet, if microsoft chose to come after you, you would be out more than a few hundred bucks all said and done. But I encourage anyone who I am not fiscally responsible for stand up and fight the man! -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 03:38:16 2004 From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More Gmail invites... In-Reply-To: <413E7ABE.3090701@comcast.net> References: <32fd45370409071054d341722@mail.gmail.com> <413E7ABE.3090701@comcast.net> Message-ID: <32fd4537040908013855f63f60@mail.gmail.com> And that is it for that batch... On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 22:21:34 -0500, Jeff Nelson wrote: > > > Keith Bachman wrote: > > >Got another 6...holler if ya want one. > > > > > Yes, thanks. > > -Jeff > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jim at herrick.net Wed Sep 8 03:38:37 2004 From: jim at herrick.net (Jim Herrick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache and PHP References: Message-ID: <00af01c4957f$3e71ff20$73252893@FUNA08205SCN402> FYI. How to set these values can be found at: http://php.net/configuration.changes Read about which values *can* be set in .htaccess at: http://php.net/manual/en/function.ini-set.php Here's the low-down for the syntax: --- php_value name value Sets the value of the specified directive. Can be used only with PHP_INI_ALL and PHP_INI_PERDIR type directives. To clear a previously set value use none as the value. Note: Don't use php_value to set boolean values. php_flag (see below) should be used instead. php_flag name on|off Used to set a boolean configuration directive. Can be used only with PHP_INI_ALL and PHP_INI_PERDIR type directives. php_admin_value name value Sets the value of the specified directive. This can not be used in .htaccess files. Any directive type set with php_admin_value can not be overridden by .htaccess or virtualhost directives. To clear a previously set value use none as the value. php_admin_flag name on|off Used to set a boolean configuration directive. This can not be used in .htaccess files. Any directive type set with php_admin_flag can not be overridden by .htaccess or virtualhost directives. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Zbikowski" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, 07 September, 2004 22:32 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache and PHP > I'm running Geeklog on my personal website...a couple weeks ago I > setup a bunch of RDF feeds. Looks like PHP got upgraded to 4.3.8 over > the weekend (from whatever version of PHP was in Debian Woody), and > the RDF feeds stopped working. > > To get them to work in the first place, I had the following in a .htaccess file: > > php_flag allow_url_fopen On > > tells me that allow_url_fopen if Off now. So my > guess is that something changed that isn't allowing me to override > that setting with a .htaccess file anymore. (I changed the global PHP > config to enable allow_url_fopen, and things started working again. > I'd rather leave the global as is with it disabled, and make .htaccess > or something else to enable this option just for this directory. > > My apache entry for the site looks like: > > > ServerName andy.zibnet.us > DocumentRoot /project/web/zib/geeklog/public_html > > > To try an get things working again I added: > > AllowOverride all > > > That wasn't the answer...so I'm stuck for the moment. I'm hoping > someone who knows apache and php configuration better than I is out > there. :) > > -- > Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us > A password is like your underwear; Change it > frequently, don't share it with others, and > don't ask to borrow someone else's. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com Wed Sep 8 12:52:44 2004 From: tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com (Robert D. De Mars) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT - Installing Linux on a Dead Badger: User's Notes Message-ID: <413F46EC.6090108@b-o-b.homelinux.com> Just saw this. Funny.... http://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/20040405/badger.shtml Adios, Robert De Mars -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= http://b-o-b.homelinux.com Lat 45:09N / Long 93:18W -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 14:25:49 2004 From: jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com (Jeff Rasmussen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] QoS Appliance Message-ID: <9d6c8253040908122557e8ea25@mail.gmail.com> Does anyone have any experience with QoS for bandwidth management? I found some great articles about it but wanted to see if someone was experienced enough to give me a price on creating a QoS device to regulate our 400 employees outbound proxied web traffic and our 20 simultaneous VPN clients and email traffic for everybody. The network engineer believes that a proprietary solution would cost us around $10,000 - $20,000. He is not willing to work with open source software but if I can show a bid for a cheaper, more customizable device I believe that might sway him. Basically, we don't have enough bandwidth to go around. Our department uses the VPN connections and would be winning to help fund more bandwidth if we could guarantee some level of service and nobody else is willing to pay for the increase for web browsing. -- Jeff Rasmussen GPG public key 0x9686C12F _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kc0iog at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 14:51:58 2004 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] QoS Appliance In-Reply-To: <9d6c8253040908122557e8ea25@mail.gmail.com> References: <9d6c8253040908122557e8ea25@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c6699da04090812517331b1d2@mail.gmail.com> why not iproute2? http://lartc.org/howto A linux box with several NICs is all you need, and you probably have that laying around the office somewhere. Even if the powers that be cringe at open source, they can't argue with free. -Brian On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 14:25:49 -0500, Jeff Rasmussen wrote: > Does anyone have any experience with QoS for bandwidth management? > > I found some great articles about it but wanted to see if someone was > experienced enough to give me a price on creating a QoS device to > regulate our 400 employees outbound proxied web traffic and our 20 > simultaneous VPN clients and email traffic for everybody. > > The network engineer believes that a proprietary solution would cost > us around $10,000 - $20,000. He is not willing to work with open > source software but if I can show a bid for a cheaper, more > customizable device I believe that might sway him. > > Basically, we don't have enough bandwidth to go around. Our > department uses the VPN connections and would be winning to help fund > more bandwidth if we could guarantee some level of service and nobody > else is willing to pay for the increase for web browsing. > > -- > Jeff Rasmussen > GPG public key 0x9686C12F > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Wed Sep 8 14:41:45 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] QoS Appliance In-Reply-To: <9d6c8253040908122557e8ea25@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: If you have a cisco, it should be able to do this. Horsepower will be your biggest question - but if you're talking about a T-1 or less worth of bandwidth, then this probably isn't an issue. There are lots of QoS options in IOS nowadays. Your cost would be nothing, or the cost of a consultant to config it, or if you have a support contract, make cisco do it. Just check their work. This is by far the simplest. Obviously, QoS in Linux and BSD is pretty mature nowadays. You're just looking at the cost of a box with a couple of NIC's. The only other thing I've ever had first-hand experience with is something called a Packeteer. They are purple. The one I saw was a 1U box with a web interface. It was purple. I don't know their capabilities, but a former customer of mine was using it to shape VOIP traffic across a T-1. It was also purple. I would call it Barney, the big purple traffic shaper. I don't think they are quite $10,000 - even with support and upgrades they should still be under $10,000. Factor in the cost of a paint job to make it presentable in your equipment room... On Wed, 8 Sep 2004, Jeff Rasmussen wrote: > Does anyone have any experience with QoS for bandwidth management? > > I found some great articles about it but wanted to see if someone was > experienced enough to give me a price on creating a QoS device to > regulate our 400 employees outbound proxied web traffic and our 20 > simultaneous VPN clients and email traffic for everybody. > > The network engineer believes that a proprietary solution would cost > us around $10,000 - $20,000. He is not willing to work with open > source software but if I can show a bid for a cheaper, more > customizable device I believe that might sway him. > > Basically, we don't have enough bandwidth to go around. Our > department uses the VPN connections and would be winning to help fund > more bandwidth if we could guarantee some level of service and nobody > else is willing to pay for the increase for web browsing. > > -- > Jeff Rasmussen > GPG public key 0x9686C12F > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Wed Sep 8 16:19:11 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (OT: GMail Blow-out Special) Message-ID: EVERYTHING MUST GO! I have 3 more GMail invites to give out. First 3 people to e-mail me, yada yada. Don't expect confirmation until tomorrow. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kfuchs at winternet.com Wed Sep 8 16:42:03 2004 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What x86, AMD64 PC hardware diagnostic tests do you use? Message-ID: <200409082142.i88Lg3GX000401@tundra.winternet.com> I'm looking for a Linux open source hardware test suite that verifies the proper function of all subsystems of an x86 or AMD64 PC system. PC Doctor has such a test suite, but it isn't open source and costs a lot of money. I've looked briefly at the tools available at http://linux-diag.sourceforge.net/, but it doesn't seem to be fully developed. Does anyone have experience with sysfstools, sysdiag or even lsvpd that they would like to share? There are a couple of live CDs that look interesting for testing hardware stability, but don't provide nearly enough tests and don't seem to have scripts that could automate the tests for a complete unattended 12-24 hour burn-in of all PC subsystems: http://www.stresslinux.org/ http://overclockix.octeams.com/ Ideally, all ports except one Ethernet port would have loop-back devices connected, except one Ethernet port where all the software and test results would flow through/to a test server. Some single purpose hardware tests I've found include: http://users.bigpond.net.au/cpuburn/ http://www.memtest86.com/ (bootable GPL) http://www.memtest.org/ (bootable GPL; based on memtest86) /sbin/badblocks Sincerely, Ken Fuchs _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kc0iog at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 16:49:59 2004 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (OT: GMail Blow-out Special) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2c6699da040908144972e68c4f@mail.gmail.com> And when Adam runs out, I have 6 more! -Brian On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 16:19:11 -0500 (CDT), Adam Maloney wrote: > EVERYTHING MUST GO! > > I have 3 more GMail invites to give out. First 3 people to e-mail me, > yada yada. Don't expect confirmation until tomorrow. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Wed Sep 8 17:52:13 2004 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Meeting? Message-ID: <20040908225213.GC7490@fandre.com> So the speaker I was hoping to have for Saturday's meeting is unable to present. So we are left without a topic. Does anyone want to meet, or shall I cancel this month's meeting. Anyone have anything interesting they would like to talk about? -- Clay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From barnabas at knicknack.net Wed Sep 8 18:28:31 2004 From: barnabas at knicknack.net (Eric Stanley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Meeting? In-Reply-To: <20040908225213.GC7490@fandre.com> References: <20040908225213.GC7490@fandre.com> Message-ID: <200409081828.31360.barnabas@knicknack.net> Surely someone could talk on the subject of gmail. :-) Eric On Wednesday 08 September 2004 17:52, Clay Fandre wrote: > So the speaker I was hoping to have for Saturday's meeting is unable > to present. So we are left without a topic. Does anyone want to meet, > or shall I cancel this month's meeting. Anyone have anything > interesting they would like to talk about? > > -- Clay > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From markdeb.browne at comcast.net Wed Sep 8 18:58:32 2004 From: markdeb.browne at comcast.net (Mark Browne) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] YAGI - Get 'em while they'er hot! Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mcnixon at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 19:11:20 2004 From: mcnixon at gmail.com (Mike Nixon) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] YAGI - Get 'em while they'er hot! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: And 6 more when those run out: https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-a433d3c613-6d8cda93b8-e7599d330c https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-a433d3c613-b2bf18b76e-2d57204d0b https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-a433d3c613-30dac57f02-56e50d4461 https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-a433d3c613-2dfdcbfbb4-ec6e49cba3 https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-a433d3c613-59b76039dc-db59684115 https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-a433d3c613-84b9eeb75d-c7d3f27bbe Hmmm, I notice mine are secure. Mike Nixon _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 19:19:17 2004 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Meeting? In-Reply-To: <200409081828.31360.barnabas@knicknack.net> References: <20040908225213.GC7490@fandre.com> <200409081828.31360.barnabas@knicknack.net> Message-ID: <67f3084a04090817194e21b701@mail.gmail.com> At times, I wish this was a messageboard... :2bitchslap On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 18:28:31 -0500, Eric Stanley wrote: > Surely someone could talk on the subject of gmail. :-) > > Eric > > > > On Wednesday 08 September 2004 17:52, Clay Fandre wrote: > > So the speaker I was hoping to have for Saturday's meeting is unable > > to present. So we are left without a topic. Does anyone want to meet, > > or shall I cancel this month's meeting. Anyone have anything > > interesting they would like to talk about? > > > > -- Clay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jpschewe at mtu.net Wed Sep 8 20:19:43 2004 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] XP SP2 and Samba no work? Message-ID: <1094692783.18117.5.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Wed Sep 8 20:48:13 2004 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] XP SP2 and Samba no work? In-Reply-To: <1094692783.18117.5.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> References: <1094692783.18117.5.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Message-ID: <34649.12.47.38.130.1094694493.squirrel@12.47.38.130> Dump SP2 ??? > about bad passwords and such. Anyone got any ideas? > > -- > Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From silwenae at silwenae.com Wed Sep 8 20:43:52 2004 From: silwenae at silwenae.com (Paul Cutler) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] XP SP2 and Samba no work? In-Reply-To: <1094692783.18117.5.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> References: <1094692783.18117.5.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Message-ID: <1094694232.4896.63.camel@localhost.localdomain> Googling around it looks like bug report 1721 on bugzilla.samba.org is similar to this, but no fix yet. --Paul On Wed, 2004-09-08 at 20:19, Jon Schewe wrote: > I've got a laptop running XP pro. I've got a desktop running Linux with > Samba 3.0.4. Everything is working just fine, I'm asked for > authentication for shares on the Linux box and everything works great. > Now I install XP SP2 and now I can't get at my shares. Gives me errors > about bad passwords and such. Anyone got any ideas? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Wed Sep 8 21:22:49 2004 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Thunderbird mailer question: quoting w/e-mail address Message-ID: <1094696569.5040.55.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jpschewe at mtu.net Wed Sep 8 21:31:02 2004 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] XP SP2 and Samba no work? In-Reply-To: <1094694232.4896.63.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1094692783.18117.5.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> <1094694232.4896.63.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1094697061.27718.5.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tim.link at mchsi.com Wed Sep 8 21:50:56 2004 From: tim.link at mchsi.com (Tim Link) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (OT: GMail Blow-out Special) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Might be too late, but I'm trying anyway. GMail invite request. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Adam Maloney Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 4:19 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] (OT: GMail Blow-out Special) EVERYTHING MUST GO! I have 3 more GMail invites to give out. First 3 people to e-mail me, yada yada. Don't expect confirmation until tomorrow. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drue at therub.org Wed Sep 8 21:48:41 2004 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (OT: GMail Blow-out Special) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040909024841.GS84634@therub.org> Sent. On Wed, Sep 08, 2004 at 09:50:56PM -0500, Tim Link wrote: > Might be too late, but I'm trying anyway. GMail invite request. > Thanks. > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Adam > Maloney > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 4:19 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] (OT: GMail Blow-out Special) > > > EVERYTHING MUST GO! > > I have 3 more GMail invites to give out. First 3 people to > e-mail me, > yada yada. Don't expect confirmation until tomorrow. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: > http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test > http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Wed Sep 8 22:00:55 2004 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Thunderbird mailer question: quoting w/e-mail address In-Reply-To: <1094696569.5040.55.camel@3po> References: <1094696569.5040.55.camel@3po> Message-ID: <1094698855.5040.58.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com Wed Sep 8 22:16:29 2004 From: tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com (Robert D. De Mars) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Thunderbird mailer question: quoting w/e-mail address In-Reply-To: <1094696569.5040.55.camel@3po> References: <1094696569.5040.55.camel@3po> Message-ID: <413FCB0D.60406@b-o-b.homelinux.com> Mike Hicks wrote: > Is there a hidden thing somewhere to tweak that? I know it's kind of a > bad thing to have in this age of address-scarfing spambots, but it helps > me keep track of any addresses if I get something that is a few replies > deep (not that I'll ever train my workmates to reply below like ${DIETY} > intended, but whatever) check this http://texturizer.net/thunderbird/edit.html I believe these are the config files you seek. > > Also, is there something around to tweak my mail so that Outlook-mangled > messages will still appear as part of threads rather than off on their > own? I hate not being able to properly follow the conversation. Not sure. Perhaps there is an extension for something like that you can install available. http://texturizer.net/thunderbird/extensions/ > > Yeah, Thunderbird is still pretty young, but at least it's a damn sight > better than IMP (*shudder*). > Good Luck, Robert De Mars -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= http://b-o-b.homelinux.com Lat 45:09N / Long 93:18W -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From whtdruid at druids-grove.net Wed Sep 8 23:14:58 2004 From: whtdruid at druids-grove.net (Daniel Rysztak) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] XP SP2 and Samba no work? In-Reply-To: <1094697061.27718.5.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Message-ID: I'm Running: smbd -V Version 3.0.5-Debian 2 XP SP2 machines Both connect to their file shares on the Debian box just fine and I can write/modify files. Maybe try upgrading 1 sub version? ============================ Daniel Rysztak, CCNP http://www.druids-grove.net/ -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jon Schewe Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 9:31 PM To: silwenae@silwenae.com; TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] XP SP2 and Samba no work? That bug report doesn't seem to fit. The reporter is able to connect, just after a long time. I'm actually getting permission denied right away. On Wed, 2004-09-08 at 20:43, Paul Cutler wrote: > Googling around it looks like bug report 1721 on bugzilla.samba.org is > similar to this, but no fix yet. > > --Paul > > On Wed, 2004-09-08 at 20:19, Jon Schewe wrote: > > I've got a laptop running XP pro. I've got a desktop running Linux with > > Samba 3.0.4. Everything is working just fine, I'm asked for > > authentication for shares on the Linux box and everything works great. > > Now I install XP SP2 and now I can't get at my shares. Gives me errors > > about bad passwords and such. Anyone got any ideas? > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe GPG signature at http://mtu.net/~jpschewe/gpg.sig.html For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From whtdruid at druids-grove.net Wed Sep 8 23:23:29 2004 From: whtdruid at druids-grove.net (Daniel Rysztak) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] XP SP2 and Samba no work? In-Reply-To: <1094697061.27718.5.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Message-ID: I thought about it some more and thought maybe I got the solution backwards. I use my XP boxes to store/access files off the Linux server through Samba. So, I tried accessing the XP SP2 box from a Linux command prompt. It worked too (clipped for brevity and security): smbclient //white/G$ -Uadministrator Password: Domain=[WHITE] OS=[Windows 5.1] Server=[Windows 2000 LAN Manager] smb: \> dir Program Files DA 0 Mon Sep 6 15:42:26 2004 RECYCLER DHS 0 Thu Jan 9 22:22:48 2003 WINDOWS DA 0 Mon Sep 6 15:28:22 2004 58306 blocks of size 1048576. 12838 blocks available smb: \> ============================ Daniel Rysztak, CCNP http://www.druids-grove.net/ -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jon Schewe Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 9:31 PM To: silwenae@silwenae.com; TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] XP SP2 and Samba no work? That bug report doesn't seem to fit. The reporter is able to connect, just after a long time. I'm actually getting permission denied right away. On Wed, 2004-09-08 at 20:43, Paul Cutler wrote: > Googling around it looks like bug report 1721 on bugzilla.samba.org is > similar to this, but no fix yet. > > --Paul > > On Wed, 2004-09-08 at 20:19, Jon Schewe wrote: > > I've got a laptop running XP pro. I've got a desktop running Linux with > > Samba 3.0.4. Everything is working just fine, I'm asked for > > authentication for shares on the Linux box and everything works great. > > Now I install XP SP2 and now I can't get at my shares. Gives me errors > > about bad passwords and such. Anyone got any ideas? > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe GPG signature at http://mtu.net/~jpschewe/gpg.sig.html For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 00:51:42 2004 From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT]4 more Gmail invites... Message-ID: <32fd4537040908225153dd9a5b@mail.gmail.com> Well, I gave out two to people who came late to my 3rd batch, so they got first dibs on batch 4, of which there are 4 left...damn, does the insanity ever stop? When this gets all over (everyone on TCLUG having them...I've got 3, heh) I'll probably start sending them to the site that's taking donations of Gmail invites for soldiers in Iraq. If anyone can find the site, that'd be great. I know they were taking unused ones and giving them to soldiers, so they could contact their loved ones back in the States. I think that'd be a cool thing to do with our seemingly endless supply of invites. Keith _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at cmulcahy.com Thu Sep 9 06:11:50 2004 From: tclug at cmulcahy.com (Chris) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail Message-ID: <1094728310.28331.5.camel@gentoobox> It's only fair... First come, first serve: https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-9850270d22-6f784d23f5-7e399f8ae6 https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-9850270d22-446bfce457-e10abea915 https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-9850270d22-4f078aeffb-fd82f04348 https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-9850270d22-015083011f-1fcc4808f5 https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-9850270d22-244d736032-d41f74b298 https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-9850270d22-421880b51c-8927e2b168 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Thu Sep 9 06:35:18 2004 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT]4 more Gmail invites... In-Reply-To: <32fd4537040908225153dd9a5b@mail.gmail.com> References: <32fd4537040908225153dd9a5b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040909113518.GA23136@mail.el-swifto.com> On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 12:51:42AM -0500, Keith Bachman wrote: > When this gets all over (everyone on TCLUG having them...I've got 3, > heh) I'll probably start sending them to the site that's taking > donations of Gmail invites for soldiers in Iraq. http://gmail4troops.com/ IMPORTANT NOTE: We currently have a lot more donation offers for invites than we do requests. We plan on doing another outreach to men and women overseas, and we plan on the requests rising once again. If you "donate" an invite, please keep in mind that you may not be contacted right away with a match, so please feel free to keep sharing your Invites with friends and family as well. We will keep you updated on the trends and if the need for more invites increases. Thanks Everyone!!!! -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jpschewe at mtu.net Thu Sep 9 06:42:57 2004 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] XP SP2 and Samba no work? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1094730176.27718.14.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From markdeb.browne at comcast.net Thu Sep 9 08:05:35 2004 From: markdeb.browne at comcast.net (Mark Browne) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] YAGI - Get 'em while they'er hot! (usage stats) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 12:01:47 2004 From: jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com (Jeff Rasmussen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] YAGI - Get 'em while they'er hot! (usage stats) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9d6c82530409091001dada956@mail.gmail.com> I've got 4 gmail invites. -- Jeff Rasmussen GPG public key 0x9686C12F _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From justin.kremer at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 12:18:58 2004 From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] YAGI - Get 'em while they'er hot! (usage stats) In-Reply-To: <9d6c82530409091001dada956@mail.gmail.com> References: <9d6c82530409091001dada956@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <27e6356a04090910183f10ff3e@mail.gmail.com> And I've got 5 of 'em. Let me know if you're still looking for one. On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:01:47 -0500, Jeff Rasmussen wrote: > I've got 4 gmail invites. -- Justin Kremer _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From randyburns at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 12:22:13 2004 From: randyburns at gmail.com (Randy Burns) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] two more Gmail invites Message-ID: <6b990201040909102219cb7d8@mail.gmail.com> They still seem to be going fast. Two more: http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-427f042592-837b1dd079-1b01274179 http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-427f042592-88fa932d1e-d9b96a298d _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 12:47:56 2004 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Need Cisco 678 or Actiontec DSL router Message-ID: <67f3084a0409091047526b8eba@mail.gmail.com> I have a need for a Cisco 678 or Actiontec DSL router. Does anyone have a router that is compatible with Qwest laying around that they are looking to sell? Thanks. -- -Shawn "That which hits the fan, will not be evenly distributed." _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hpenner at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 13:52:44 2004 From: hpenner at gmail.com (Harry Penner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Need Cisco 678 or Actiontec DSL router In-Reply-To: <67f3084a0409091047526b8eba@mail.gmail.com> References: <67f3084a0409091047526b8eba@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <822221bb04090911521cc42f5@mail.gmail.com> Qwest is selling them for only $60 right now; you may want to get a new one. -Harry On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:47:56 -0500, Shawn Fertch wrote: > I have a need for a Cisco 678 or Actiontec DSL router. Does anyone > have a router that is compatible with Qwest laying around that they > are looking to sell? > > Thanks. > > -- > -Shawn > > "That which hits the fan, will not be evenly distributed." > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dworden at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 16:08:12 2004 From: dworden at gmail.com (David Worden) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT]YAGI Batch-----> In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-f804639129-f780bd9537-a8f13ebeb3 http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-f804639129-d3575bd22c-6cb0d44a8e http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-f804639129-45e48e2a1c-dba8c82fac http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-f804639129-40206ab5a5-9350581108 http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-f804639129-7f7d607d8f-77706ba1de http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-f804639129-970fde1dc7-a1f6f4dc06 http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-7017e7d922-8f8ce556d1-fb9d902abc http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-7017e7d922-e5504eff7c-c9094d3807 http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-7017e7d922-005a009160-9fc0b34710 http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-7017e7d922-b80712fd9e-06811f6c6a http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-7017e7d922-9d0f1b2f30-f13425318b http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-7017e7d922-90d0b748d6-e0fcafcf71 http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-422baee524-056de01d45-165fdfb039 http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-422baee524-425eb9f8b1-e8ea467cb1 http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-422baee524-4b29a6a92e-ef9b2c6387 http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-422baee524-75d398cae4-65fa632624 http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-422baee524-a56f94ce5e-cedc6662b9 Regards, --djw _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu Sep 9 19:39:13 2004 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Thunderbird mailer question: quoting w/e-mail address In-Reply-To: <413FCB0D.60406@b-o-b.homelinux.com> References: <1094696569.5040.55.camel@3po> <413FCB0D.60406@b-o-b.homelinux.com> Message-ID: <1094776753.5040.66.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From skodak at cs.umn.edu Thu Sep 9 21:13:26 2004 From: skodak at cs.umn.edu (Sreekumar Kodakara) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Time management software Message-ID: Hi, I am looking for an open source time management software which has todo lists, calendar reminders etc. This is to install in my computer and for one user. Any recommendations/experiences? Thanks Sreekumar _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at joshwelch.com Thu Sep 9 21:35:22 2004 From: tclug at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Time management software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <414112EA.80901@joshwelch.com> Sreekumar Kodakara wrote: > Hi, > > I am looking for an open source time management software which has todo > lists, calendar reminders etc. This is to install in my computer and > for one user. Any recommendations/experiences? > > Thanks > > Sreekumar > Give the Mozilla projects Sunbird a try, I've been using it recently and I am pretty impressed with it for a 0.2 version. It also has the ability to publish your calendar to a WebDav enabled http server, or at least it supposed to, haven't tried it yet. I can see it being a good alternative for Exchange if they can get it working well with something on the server side. Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jpschewe at mtu.net Thu Sep 9 22:04:00 2004 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] XP SP2 and Samba no work? In-Reply-To: <1094730176.27718.14.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> References: <1094730176.27718.14.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Message-ID: <1094785439.572.4.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jwickard at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 22:06:32 2004 From: jwickard at gmail.com (Joel Wickard) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Time management software In-Reply-To: <414112EA.80901@joshwelch.com> References: <414112EA.80901@joshwelch.com> Message-ID: <3f0ccce004090920065de437f9@mail.gmail.com> > Give the Mozilla projects Sunbird a try, I've been using it recently > and I am pretty impressed with it for a 0.2 version. It also has the > ability to publish your calendar to a WebDav enabled http server, or at > least it supposed to, haven't tried it yet. I can see it being a good > alternative for Exchange if they can get it working well with something > on the server side. > > Josh You don't even necessarily need webdav. I use sunbird to publish my calendar to phpicalendar, using the url of a php script, no dav enabled whatsover. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dtgm at comcast.net Thu Sep 9 23:40:16 2004 From: dtgm at comcast.net (Adam Shrode) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Time management software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41413030.4030604@comcast.net> Sreekumar Kodakara wrote: >Hi, > >I am looking for an open source time management software which has todo >lists, calendar reminders etc. This is to install in my computer and >for one user. Any recommendations/experiences? > >Thanks > >Sreekumar > > Hey Sreekumar, I personally use Ximian Evolution. It is maintained by novell but licensed under GPL. It has the gnome feel to it. If you're more of a KDE person, you could give KDEPIM a try although I've never tried PIM. I often find KDE software to be of exceptional calibre, but horrible to look at so I don't mess with it much. It also seems KDE is a bit more ambitious. Both are pretty stable from what I hear. Evolution is nearing it's 1.6 release (currently 1.4) which will rock I guarantee you. :) Sites: http://www.novell.com/products/evolution/ http://pim.kde.org/ - as - _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lcojiml at yahoo.com Fri Sep 10 08:18:54 2004 From: lcojiml at yahoo.com (James Louis) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Time management software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4141A9BE.40900@yahoo.com> If you're using Thunderbird/Firebird the calendar extension is nice. Jim Sreekumar Kodakara wrote: >Hi, > >I am looking for an open source time management software which has todo >lists, calendar reminders etc. This is to install in my computer and >for one user. Any recommendations/experiences? > >Thanks > >Sreekumar > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Fri Sep 10 10:22:13 2004 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200409101522.i8AFMDU07893@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: dual processor dell hello- i have the following for sale: dell precision 210 desktop, dual processor p3 500, 9.1gb scsi hdd, adaptec 2940u2, 512mb pc100 memory, zip drive $120 or b.o. Seller Email address: lombardo at evilcricket dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at greatlakedata.com Fri Sep 10 12:09:35 2004 From: tclug at greatlakedata.com (gregwm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] presentation equipment Message-ID: <1094836174.30822.1468.camel@ruby.rub.belfastdata.net> hi tickluggers, i am dreaming of equipment to make presentations easier i would like to manifest a microphone, a mouse pointer, and a volume control all together in the same wireless remote control unit. i would like to find computer speakers that can do undistorted non-tinny non-boomy sound in a large church basement. again, wireless would be nice. do these things exist? if so do they work well? where should i really be looking/asking? thank you greg -- Gregory Whitley Mott IT Coordinator NonviolentPeaceforce.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at nomeaning.net Fri Sep 10 13:59:30 2004 From: tclug at nomeaning.net (Eric Lambart) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Time management software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1094842770.3321.8.camel@thinky> On Thu, 2004-09-09 at 21:13 -0500, Sreekumar Kodakara wrote: > Hi, > > I am looking for an open source time management software which has todo > lists, calendar reminders etc. This is to install in my computer and > for one user. Any recommendations/experiences? Sreekumar, I highly recommend Evolution. It is a very stable, actively-developed application, and does everything you want (well) in addition to managing your contacts and email. The current stable version is 1.4.6, though 2.0 will be released very soon. The 1.5.94 (pre-2.0) development snapshot I'm using is also very stable and reliable. If you only want a Calendar/Task manager, Mozilla Sunbird may be what you want. I haven't used it, but I've seen it in action and it seems reasonably useful. Eric _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Fri Sep 10 16:03:21 2004 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] content|document management system? Message-ID: <20040910210321.GC9962@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mcnixon at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 16:18:29 2004 From: mcnixon at gmail.com (Mike Nixon) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Laptop Hard Drive Jumpers Message-ID: I'm trying to recover data off a few flaky laptop hard drives (with one of those kits to connect the 2.5" drive to a 3.5" cable). There is a jumper setting for slave or cable select, but I don't have any jumpers that fit on these smaller drives. Any suggestions on where I could pickup jumpers locally in Minneapolis? BTW, the freezer trick has been a big help here also. TIA, Mike Nixon _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Fri Sep 10 16:48:06 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] content|document management system? In-Reply-To: <20040910210321.GC9962@iucha.net> References: <20040910210321.GC9962@iucha.net> Message-ID: <20040910214806.GB6306@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erikerik at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 17:08:48 2004 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question Message-ID: I'm going to be moving soon, and am planning on wiring the new place with cat5e. I'm wondering what type of cat5e I should buy. I know that for commercial applications, you need to install plenum cable in the walls to meet code. Does the same building code apply to residential data wiring? Can I put STP or PVC cable in the walls? Thanks! -Erik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hpenner at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 17:40:40 2004 From: hpenner at gmail.com (Harry Penner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <822221bb04091015405d565b96@mail.gmail.com> IMHO you should use plenum whether it's code or not. Maybe it seems like a waste of money but I'd rather spend the extra $200 per spool to know that if a fire ever happens, death by burning PVC fumes is not on the list of threats... Just that much more of a fighting chance for the people trying to get out. One father of 5's $0.02. :) I know several people who have put the wiring in the walls (i.e. running through holes in the 2x4's before putting up the drywall). The last one who did it, did so with the permission of the builder, so hey, I'm no architect but I'd say go for it. HTH, -Harry On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:08:48 -0500, Erik Anderson wrote: > I'm going to be moving soon, and am planning on wiring the new place > with cat5e. I'm wondering what type of cat5e I should buy. I know > that for commercial applications, you need to install plenum cable in > the walls to meet code. Does the same building code apply to > residential data wiring? Can I put STP or PVC cable in the walls? > > Thanks! > -Erik > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Sep 10 19:02:45 2004 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <414240A5.2020501@visi.com> I believe you are required to use plenum. Plenum does not produce toxic smoke when it burns so I would us in even if it was not required. Sam. Erik Anderson wrote: >I'm going to be moving soon, and am planning on wiring the new place >with cat5e. I'm wondering what type of cat5e I should buy. I know >that for commercial applications, you need to install plenum cable in >the walls to meet code. Does the same building code apply to >residential data wiring? Can I put STP or PVC cable in the walls? > >Thanks! >-Erik > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andyzib at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 18:08:08 2004 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: <822221bb04091015405d565b96@mail.gmail.com> References: <822221bb04091015405d565b96@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Personally, I'd just go for an 802.11g Access point (or two) All the networking I need...with alot less effort and wires. But if you really really want to pull cable... well...do it once...I'm betting you'll change your mind. I've pulled enough cable that I know I don't ever want to do it again unless I have to. :) -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Sep 10 19:07:58 2004 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Laptop Hard Drive Jumpers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <414241DE.5080303@visi.com> Freezer Trick? Sam. Mike Nixon wrote: >I'm trying to recover data off a few flaky laptop hard drives (with >one of those kits to connect the 2.5" drive to a 3.5" cable). >There is a jumper setting for slave or cable select, but I don't have >any jumpers that fit on these smaller drives. Any suggestions on >where I could pickup jumpers locally in Minneapolis? > >BTW, the freezer trick has been a big help here also. > >TIA, >Mike Nixon > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at nwaalpa.org Fri Sep 10 18:05:14 2004 From: tclug at nwaalpa.org (Steve Swantz) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Is it new construction? If the walls are still open, look into flexible blue conduit (smurf tube) - Home Depot sells it by the roll, along with wall boxes that it plugs into. When we built our house, I 'home-runned' (home-ran?) one or two boxes in every room down to the utility room. Speaker wire, cat5, cable - when we need it we pull it. If you plan on staying there it's a great investment in the future. Not exactly the question you asked, but hope it helps. Steve -------------------- On Sep 10, 2004, at 5:08 PM, Erik Anderson wrote: > I'm going to be moving soon, and am planning on wiring the new place > with cat5e. I'm wondering what type of cat5e I should buy. I know > that for commercial applications, you need to install plenum cable in > the walls to meet code. Does the same building code apply to > residential data wiring? Can I put STP or PVC cable in the walls? > > Thanks! > -Erik > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tpenney at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 18:33:42 2004 From: tpenney at gmail.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Laptop Hard Drive Jumpers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5c596d0e040910163326ba605a@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:18:29 -0500, Mike Nixon wrote: > I'm trying to recover data off a few flaky laptop hard drives (with > one of those kits to connect the 2.5" drive to a 3.5" cable). > There is a jumper setting for slave or cable select, but I don't have > any jumpers that fit on these smaller drives. I've used fine wire and a needle nose to wrap it between the posts. Just temporary of course. -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tommyj27 at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 18:35:06 2004 From: tommyj27 at gmail.com (Thomas Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Laptop Hard Drive Jumpers In-Reply-To: <414241DE.5080303@visi.com> References: <414241DE.5080303@visi.com> Message-ID: <1469cda2040910163569cd9e6b@mail.gmail.com> the idea is that chilling a dying drive in the freezer will give you some extra run time to dump data before it siezes up on you. On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:07:58 -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > Freezer Trick? > > Sam. > > Mike Nixon wrote: > > >I'm trying to recover data off a few flaky laptop hard drives (with > >one of those kits to connect the 2.5" drive to a 3.5" cable). > >There is a jumper setting for slave or cable select, but I don't have > >any jumpers that fit on these smaller drives. Any suggestions on > >where I could pickup jumpers locally in Minneapolis? > > > >BTW, the freezer trick has been a big help here also. > > > >TIA, > >Mike Nixon > > > >_______________________________________________ > >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > >Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > >tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at greatlakedata.com Fri Sep 10 11:14:42 2004 From: tclug at greatlakedata.com (gregwm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FC2 laptop dual head probs In-Reply-To: <1093706586.3880.21.camel@3po> References: <412FE4E7.5080508@cpinternet.com> <1093706586.3880.21.camel@3po> Message-ID: <1094832881.29746.1340.camel@ruby.rub.belfastdata.net> > On Fri, 2004-08-27 at 20:50, Olwe Melwasul wrote: > > I'm still trying to figure out why my laptop won't output X to my CRT. > > LCD screen is just fine, the CRT shows non-X boot/system stuff (so the > > connection is good). Went through some of the KDE GUI display settings, > > but one says I don't have Xfree 4.3 "the latest", so I can't resize. > > Unrelated? The KDE "Display" (system-config-display) UI lets you > > configure for dual head, but it just won't come through on the CRT. > > > > My CRT is actually a NEC MultiSync 97F, but it wasn't offered. I also > > switched Xinerama to "off" and Clone to "on" and it still didn't work. my guess: X is not configured for your monitor. either sending a sync it can't do, or no sync at all. if true, there might be an Xconfigurator type app you can use, or you can just do the proper magic in your XF86config.. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Fri Sep 10 20:40:13 2004 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] XP SP2 and Samba no work? In-Reply-To: <1094692783.18117.5.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> References: <1094692783.18117.5.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Message-ID: <1094866813.5040.76.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kc0iog at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 21:31:14 2004 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FC2 install from floppy? Message-ID: <2c6699da04091019314095f49a@mail.gmail.com> I didn't realize that FC2 doesn't supply floppy images. I have a laptop with no CDROM that will not boot off USB. The only boot medium I have is floppy disk. Is there a way to break up the larger images into floppies? I did a net install of FC1 on this machine using floppies, and I'd like to do the same with FC2. -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Fri Sep 10 21:52:50 2004 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3540.192.168.100.2.1094871170.squirrel@192.168.100.2> Plenum wire is teflon coated so when it burns, it does not release harmful (poisonous) chlorine gas into the air the way standard cable does (which is jacketed with PVC [polyvinyl chloride]). I would recommend plenum simply because you would be safer, and you would never be "faulted" for using the better quality cabling. Garrett > I'm going to be moving soon, and am planning on wiring the new place > with cat5e. I'm wondering what type of cat5e I should buy. I know > that for commercial applications, you need to install plenum cable in > the walls to meet code. Does the same building code apply to > residential data wiring? Can I put STP or PVC cable in the walls? > > Thanks! > -Erik > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Fri Sep 10 22:01:44 2004 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Laptop Hard Drive Jumpers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3567.192.168.100.2.1094871704.squirrel@192.168.100.2> Axeman? (over on University Ave) > I'm trying to recover data off a few flaky laptop hard drives (with > one of those kits to connect the 2.5" drive to a 3.5" cable). > There is a jumper setting for slave or cable select, but I don't have > any jumpers that fit on these smaller drives. Any suggestions on > where I could pickup jumpers locally in Minneapolis? > > BTW, the freezer trick has been a big help here also. > > TIA, > Mike Nixon > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ericebner at nsatel.net Fri Sep 10 22:05:36 2004 From: ericebner at nsatel.net (Eric Ebner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: <414240A5.2020501@visi.com> Message-ID: Plenum is also self extinguishing. On 9/10/04 7:02 PM, "Sam MacDonald" wrote: > I believe you are required to use plenum. Plenum does not produce toxic > smoke when it burns so I would us in even if it was not required. > > Sam. > > Erik Anderson wrote: > >> I'm going to be moving soon, and am planning on wiring the new place >> with cat5e. I'm wondering what type of cat5e I should buy. I know >> that for commercial applications, you need to install plenum cable in >> the walls to meet code. Does the same building code apply to >> residential data wiring? Can I put STP or PVC cable in the walls? >> >> Thanks! >> -Erik >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >> tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jpschewe at mtu.net Fri Sep 10 23:37:31 2004 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] XP SP2 and Samba no work? In-Reply-To: <1094866813.5040.76.camel@3po> References: <1094692783.18117.5.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> <1094866813.5040.76.camel@3po> Message-ID: <1094877451.6992.10.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tpenney at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 23:53:48 2004 From: tpenney at gmail.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] presentation equipment In-Reply-To: <1094836174.30822.1468.camel@ruby.rub.belfastdata.net> References: <1094836174.30822.1468.camel@ruby.rub.belfastdata.net> Message-ID: <5c596d0e04091021536408bd9d@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:09:35 -0500, gregwm wrote: > > i would like to find computer speakers that can do undistorted non-tinny > non-boomy sound in a large church basement. again, wireless would be > nice. > > do these things exist? if so do they work well? > > where should i really be looking/asking? You might want to shift your thinking from computer gadgets to pro audio/ presentation equipment. even the best computer speakers are designed to be listened to from 3 feet away. they are not designed to, nor do they have the power to project clearly though a big room. You need a pa system. Both your mic and your computer should plug into your PA system. Also your mic should not be attached to something that you point around like a remote control, it should be pointed at your mouth. If you are using a sound system with enough power to fill big room then your mic will feed back as soon as it is pointed near a speaker. the best option is to have a mic pinned to your shirt. If you can afford a wireless mic transmitter and receiver to loose the cord that is best (lapel mics with long cords are a pain). Many companies make portable PA systems and presentation equipment. http://www.musiciansfriend.com is a good source for this kind of thing. Here is what I would recommend, start with a small PA and a hand held mic, if funds permit buy the lapel mic, then the wireless. Cheap PAs: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search?so=asc&sc=price&c=5335&so=asc&sc=price http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/602201/ http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/630130/ http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/480634/ Cord for connecting your computer audio to the PA inputs: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=cables/search/detail/base_pid/333053/ lapel mic: Cheap: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/270488/ Good: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/270132/ Mic cord: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=cables/search/detail/base_pid/338001/ Lapel Mic with transmitter & receiver: This is what you need if you can afford: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/271168/ -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sat Sep 11 09:23:15 2004 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] XP SP2 and Samba no work? In-Reply-To: <1094866813.5040.76.camel@3po> References: <1094692783.18117.5.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> <1094866813.5040.76.camel@3po> Message-ID: <41430A53.4010105@visi.com> Just so I know in my mind whats happening. *** Your trying to connect to a Linux box from an XP box. Before SP2 it worked fine, after SP2 it does not work. *** You will need to turn off the firewall components in XP as a starting point. SP2 turns on all sorts of security to keep the machine safe from attack. You will need to work through turning security features off until it works. "1 at a time" this means disabling services as well. You may have to open TCP/UDP ports that allow SMB to make it through. 137, 138, 139, 445 are some of the ports. This would mean changing or adding registry entries. Check the following sites to gain some knowledge on the ports. http://lists.samba.org/archive/samba/1998-January/005534.html http://ntsecurity.nu/papers/port445/ http://www.spirit.com/Resources/ports.html I swear M$ is trying to prevent their OS's from connecting to Linux. Sam. Mike Hicks wrote: >On Wed, 2004-09-08 at 20:19, Jon Schewe wrote: > > >>I've got a laptop running XP pro. I've got a desktop running Linux with >>Samba 3.0.4. Everything is working just fine, I'm asked for >>authentication for shares on the Linux box and everything works great. >>Now I install XP SP2 and now I can't get at my shares. Gives me errors >>about bad passwords and such. Anyone got any ideas? >> >> > >Are you trying to do Active Directory? I see that your domain is set to >mn.mtu.net, and I believe dots are illegal in old-style workgroup/domain >names. I think smbclient doesn't care at all about that sort of thing, >but Windows probably doesn't appreciate such stuff. > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Sat Sep 11 10:12:43 2004 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] XP SP2 and Samba no work? In-Reply-To: <41430A53.4010105@visi.com> References: <1094692783.18117.5.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> <1094866813.5040.76.camel@3po> <41430A53.4010105@visi.com> Message-ID: <1094915563.5040.86.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From olwe at cpinternet.com Sat Sep 11 10:18:23 2004 From: olwe at cpinternet.com (Olwe Melwasul) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FC2: kppp no; system-config-network yes... Message-ID: <4143173F.3050406@cpinternet.com> In FC2 I'm able to get my modem to connect to my ISP just fine with system-config-network by just "activating" the modem (once ISP info is stuck in), but if I try to connect using kppp, I connect fine, but cannot see past the remote host, i.e., I can ping the remote host IP address, but nothing past that, not even the ISP's DNS IP addresses. Any ideas why one way works fine, the other (more intended way) doesn't? Olwe _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jpschewe at mtu.net Sat Sep 11 10:33:53 2004 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] XP SP2 and Samba no work? In-Reply-To: <41430A53.4010105@visi.com> References: <1094692783.18117.5.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> <1094866813.5040.76.camel@3po> <41430A53.4010105@visi.com> Message-ID: <1094916832.6992.28.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jeremy at rosengren.org Sat Sep 11 12:21:05 2004 From: jeremy at rosengren.org (Jeremy A. Rosengren) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] XP SP2 and Samba no work? In-Reply-To: <1094916832.6992.28.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> References: <1094692783.18117.5.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> <1094866813.5040.76.camel@3po> <41430A53.4010105@visi.com> <1094916832.6992.28.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Message-ID: <41433401.1000906@rosengren.org> Jon Schewe wrote: > On Sat, 2004-09-11 at 09:23, Sam MacDonald wrote: > >>Just so I know in my mind whats happening. >>*** >>Your trying to connect to a Linux box from an XP box. >>Before SP2 it worked fine, after SP2 it does not work. >>*** > > Correct, with one addition. I am able to connect to a "guest ok" share, > but not one that requires user permissions. > > >>You will need to turn off the firewall components in XP as a starting point. >>SP2 turns on all sorts of security to keep the machine safe from attack. >>You will need to work through turning security features off until it works. >>"1 at a time" this means disabling services as well. >> >>You may have to open TCP/UDP ports that allow SMB to make it through. >>137, 138, 139, 445 are some of the ports. This would mean changing or >>adding registry entries. > > > See my above comment about guest shares working. Could it still be a > firewall problem? > > Just to verify that it wasn't something with my password I verified that > I can connect with the appropriate password with smbclient and with > Win2K running inside VMware. I deleted the message where you copied your samba config, but since this thread is still going and I don't have any problem connecting my SP2 machines to my Samba server, I'm curious. Do you have "encrypt passwords" turned on in your samba config? -- jeremy _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sat Sep 11 13:54:01 2004 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] XP SP2 and Samba no work? In-Reply-To: <41433401.1000906@rosengren.org> References: <1094692783.18117.5.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> <1094866813.5040.76.camel@3po> <41430A53.4010105@visi.com> <1094916832.6992.28.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> <41433401.1000906@rosengren.org> Message-ID: <414349C9.8090603@visi.com> Encrypted passwords in samba must be turned on going from XP to Samba and back. In windows 95 passwords were clear text, in windows 98 and all later they are encrypted. Is the service on the XP machine "NT LM Security Support Provider" = "started" LM = LAN Manager This may be the issue, I can't remember if the "Status" should be "Started" or not. Sam. Jeremy A. Rosengren wrote: > Jon Schewe wrote: > >> On Sat, 2004-09-11 at 09:23, Sam MacDonald wrote: >> >>> Just so I know in my mind whats happening. >>> *** >>> Your trying to connect to a Linux box from an XP box. >>> Before SP2 it worked fine, after SP2 it does not work. >>> *** >> >> >> Correct, with one addition. I am able to connect to a "guest ok" share, >> but not one that requires user permissions. >> >> >>> You will need to turn off the firewall components in XP as a >>> starting point. >>> SP2 turns on all sorts of security to keep the machine safe from >>> attack. >>> You will need to work through turning security features off until it >>> works. >>> "1 at a time" this means disabling services as well. >>> >>> You may have to open TCP/UDP ports that allow SMB to make it through. >>> 137, 138, 139, 445 are some of the ports. This would mean changing or >>> adding registry entries. >> >> >> >> See my above comment about guest shares working. Could it still be a >> firewall problem? >> >> Just to verify that it wasn't something with my password I verified that >> I can connect with the appropriate password with smbclient and with >> Win2K running inside VMware. > > > I deleted the message where you copied your samba config, but since > this thread is still going and I don't have any problem connecting my > SP2 machines to my Samba server, I'm curious. > > Do you have "encrypt passwords" turned on in your samba config? > > -- jeremy > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From slinabery at worldcycling.com Sat Sep 11 13:47:29 2004 From: slinabery at worldcycling.com (Steve Linabery) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FC2 install from floppy? In-Reply-To: <639997.1094870730097.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> References: <639997.1094870730097.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> Message-ID: <20040911184729.GA2634@steve.worldcycling.com> I had to do this same thing with an old sony vaio. You need a grub compiled with support for the NIC in the laptop (see netboot/README.netboot in the source dist). Then you need to make a boot floppy using this grub. Put the vmlinuz and initrd.img files from the FC2 iso's on a different machine on your network, and serve them using tftp. Set up all the files you need for a network install of FC2 on some machine, and serve them with httpd or ftpd or whatever you prefer for net install. Have a look at the grub manual using info. In particular read the 'network.general usage of network support'. Boot the laptop using the floppy you made, and do ifconfig --address= --server= root (nd) kernel /tftproot/some/path/kernel_image_file [options] initrd /tftproot/some/path/initrd_image_file boot and you should be ready to do the network install. cheers, steve On Fri, Sep 10, 2004 at 09:31:14PM -0500, Brian Wall wrote: > I didn't realize that FC2 doesn't supply floppy images. I have a > laptop with no CDROM that will not boot off USB. The only boot medium > I have is floppy disk. Is there a way to break up the larger images > into floppies? I did a net install of FC1 on this machine using > floppies, and I'd like to do the same with FC2. > > -Brian > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Steve Linabery, sysadmin/developer World Cycling Productions _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jpschewe at mtu.net Sat Sep 11 13:52:56 2004 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] XP SP2 and Samba no work? In-Reply-To: <414349C9.8090603@visi.com> References: <1094692783.18117.5.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> <1094866813.5040.76.camel@3po> <41430A53.4010105@visi.com> <1094916832.6992.28.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> <41433401.1000906@rosengren.org> <414349C9.8090603@visi.com> Message-ID: <41434988.1080207@mtu.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at techspresso.com Sat Sep 11 14:34:58 2004 From: mike at techspresso.com (Mike Gelhar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm not sure if anyone responded to this yet, but you only need plenum cable in areas that are used as air ways. This typically means areas in the ceiling and cold air returns. I used PVC cable in my house and the inspector hardly even looked at any low voltage (data and voice) wiring. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Erik Anderson Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 5:09 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question I'm going to be moving soon, and am planning on wiring the new place with cat5e. I'm wondering what type of cat5e I should buy. I know that for commercial applications, you need to install plenum cable in the walls to meet code. Does the same building code apply to residential data wiring? Can I put STP or PVC cable in the walls? Thanks! -Erik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jpschewe at mtu.net Sat Sep 11 14:50:02 2004 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] experience with parted Message-ID: <1094932202.12264.4.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Sat Sep 11 17:13:58 2004 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] experience with parted In-Reply-To: <1094932202.12264.4.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> References: <1094932202.12264.4.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Message-ID: <20040911221358.GA8954@mail.el-swifto.com> On Sat, Sep 11, 2004 at 02:50:02PM -0500, Jon Schewe wrote: > I've got two drives and I want to consolidate to one. The problem is > the one I want to get rid of has my swap partition and therefore I > need to repartition the second one to have a swap partition and a data > partition. What has others experience been with using parted (or > other free tools) to do this? Call me overcautious, but partition editing of any type gives me the willies. When I need to mess with partitions on a machine with important data, I bite the bullet and buy a shiny new hard drive. -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kc0iog at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 18:04:01 2004 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] experience with parted In-Reply-To: <1094932202.12264.4.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> References: <1094932202.12264.4.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Message-ID: <2c6699da0409111604102dbf55@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 14:50:02 -0500, Jon Schewe wrote: > I've got two drives and I want to consolidate to one. The problem is > the one I want to get rid of has my swap partition and therefore I need > to repartition the second one to have a swap partition and a data > partition. What has others experience been with using parted (or other > free tools) to do this? Parted is a very nice ultility! I've used it to repartition many drives, and it does a fantastic job. One problem it has is that the beginning of the partition can't be moved. Because of this, you have to plan your moves. Often times I've had to move all my data off one partition to another, blow away that partition and rebuild it somewhere else, then move the data so I can resize the second partition... depending on what you're doing, it can be a time consuming process. I've never lost a speck of data with parted, so I consider it safe. I do recommend not having either drive mounted, IIRC there is a bootable version of parted so you can run it completely independent of your linux install(s). -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jwickard at gmail.com Sun Sep 12 00:47:26 2004 From: jwickard at gmail.com (Joel Wickard) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] experience with parted In-Reply-To: <2c6699da0409111604102dbf55@mail.gmail.com> References: <1094932202.12264.4.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> <2c6699da0409111604102dbf55@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3f0ccce0040911224760bea88d@mail.gmail.com> You can boot from a floppy or knoppix and run parted. Both will work well. I've successfully used it on several occasions. I have even used parted to resize mounted partitions on two seperate occasions (and unsuccessfully on one occasion, just use the floppy/knoppix method and skip the part where you get to feel like an idiot for resizing mounted partitions.) On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 18:04:01 -0500, Brian Wall wrote: > On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 14:50:02 -0500, Jon Schewe wrote: > > I've got two drives and I want to consolidate to one. The problem is > > the one I want to get rid of has my swap partition and therefore I need > > to repartition the second one to have a swap partition and a data > > partition. What has others experience been with using parted (or other > > free tools) to do this? > > Parted is a very nice ultility! I've used it to repartition many > drives, and it does a fantastic job. One problem it has is that the > beginning of the partition can't be moved. Because of this, you have > to plan your moves. Often times I've had to move all my data off one > partition to another, blow away that partition and rebuild it > somewhere else, then move the data so I can resize the second > partition... depending on what you're doing, it can be a time > consuming process. I've never lost a speck of data with parted, so I > consider it safe. > > I do recommend not having either drive mounted, IIRC there is a > bootable version of parted so you can run it completely independent of > your linux install(s). > -Brian > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Joel Wickard Litrius Group _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Sun Sep 12 16:12:38 2004 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Running script as particular user Message-ID: Hey everyone, I've got a bash script that runs pg_dump for all the PostgreSQL databases on my system. Currently the script only works if it runs as the postgres user. I'd like to have it run daily from cron, but it doesn't work because root can't connect to the databases. What's standard sysadmin practice in this situation? -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Sun Sep 12 16:28:01 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Running script as particular user In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <914f813c040912142843a0243b@mail.gmail.com> I think a user can have a crontab too. crontab -e postgres (edit user's crontab). Give that a shot. On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:12:38 -0500, Tim Wilson wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I've got a bash script that runs pg_dump for all the PostgreSQL databases on > my system. Currently the script only works if it runs as the postgres user. > I'd like to have it run daily from cron, but it doesn't work because root > can't connect to the databases. > > What's standard sysadmin practice in this situation? > > -Tim > > -- > Tim Wilson > Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA > Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy > mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- John T. Hoffoss _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Sun Sep 12 16:32:32 2004 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Running script as particular user In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040912213232.GA9494@mail.el-swifto.com> On Sun, Sep 12, 2004 at 04:12:38PM -0500, Tim Wilson wrote: > I've got a bash script that runs pg_dump for all the PostgreSQL > databases on my system. Currently the script only works if it runs as > the postgres user. I'd like to have it run daily from cron, but it > doesn't work because root can't connect to the databases. > > What's standard sysadmin practice in this situation? I'd do something along the lines of: su postgres -c pg_dump -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Sun Sep 12 17:54:50 2004 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Running script as particular user In-Reply-To: <20040912213232.GA9494@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: On 9/12/04 4:32 PM, "John J. Trammell" wrote: > I'd do something along the lines of: > > su postgres -c pg_dump Perfect. I put that in a bash script and dropped in /etc/cron.daily/ Piece of cake. Thanks. -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From JREYNOLDS5 at mn.rr.com Sun Sep 12 18:00:56 2004 From: JREYNOLDS5 at mn.rr.com (JREYNOLDS5@mn.rr.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question Message-ID: <129adbf129ab59.129ab59129adbf@rdc-kc.rr.com> I used to do cable wiring for a living and this is correct. Plenum cabling does not give off toxic fumes so when it burns it will not kill everyone in the build with bad toxic fumes. That's the basics of it. ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Gelhar Date: Saturday, September 11, 2004 2:34 pm Subject: RE: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question > I'm not sure if anyone responded to this yet, but you only need > plenum cable > in areas that are used as air ways. This typically means areas in the > ceiling and cold air returns. I used PVC cable in my house and the > inspectorhardly even looked at any low voltage (data and voice) > wiring. > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Erik Anderson > Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 5:09 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question > > > I'm going to be moving soon, and am planning on wiring the new place > with cat5e. I'm wondering what type of cat5e I should buy. I know > that for commercial applications, you need to install plenum cable in > the walls to meet code. Does the same building code apply to > residential data wiring? Can I put STP or PVC cable in the walls? > > Thanks! > -Erik > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at joshwelch.com Sun Sep 12 22:26:53 2004 From: tclug at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4145137D.7040600@joshwelch.com> Erik Anderson wrote: > I'm going to be moving soon, and am planning on wiring the new place > with cat5e. I'm wondering what type of cat5e I should buy. I know > that for commercial applications, you need to install plenum cable in > the walls to meet code. Does the same building code apply to > residential data wiring? Can I put STP or PVC cable in the walls? > > Thanks! > -Erik > IANABI (I am not a building inspector) but my understanding is that special cabling is required for those areas that are used for air circulation as part of an HVAC system, i.e. the area between a dropped ceiling and the deck above it. These areas are referred to a plenum spaces, this is why such cable is referred to as "plenum" rated. There should be no reason you couldn't use pvc jacketed cable in the walls of a residential building. STP, on the other hand, should only be required in special instances. HTH, Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From olwe at cpinternet.com Sun Sep 12 23:00:47 2004 From: olwe at cpinternet.com (Olwe Melwasul) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? Message-ID: <41451B6F.7040506@cpinternet.com> Does anyone know of any good on-line (free) Unix/Linux-oriented C tutorial/manual/reference books either in PS or PDF format? Google produces a flood. Olwe _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erikerik at gmail.com Sun Sep 12 23:08:00 2004 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: <4145137D.7040600@joshwelch.com> References: <4145137D.7040600@joshwelch.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:26:53 -0500, Josh Welch wrote: > IANABI (I am not a building inspector) but my understanding is that > special cabling is required for those areas that are used for air > circulation as part of an HVAC system, i.e. the area between a dropped > ceiling and the deck above it. These areas are referred to a plenum > spaces, this is why such cable is referred to as "plenum" rated. > There should be no reason you couldn't use pvc jacketed cable in the > walls of a residential building. STP, on the other hand, should only be > required in special instances. Thanks everyone for the responses...it sounds like it's worth the extra money to buy plenum cable... Maybe I'll have to consider going the 802.11g route. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Sun Sep 12 23:17:39 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: <41451B6F.7040506@cpinternet.com> References: <41451B6F.7040506@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: <20040913041739.GC17055@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at gmail.com Sun Sep 12 23:44:56 2004 From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: References: <4145137D.7040600@joshwelch.com> Message-ID: <32fd453704091221445cc45f23@mail.gmail.com> Plenum is *also* usually better shielded than standard PVC, thus good for running in walls, where you most likely would be running it along power lines, etc. Yes, Plenum IS required for HVAC systems, etc...I was one of two in a massive upgrade at my old high school, and we had to beg for 3 spools of the stuff. (This was two years ago - cable ran about $350 a spool then) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 06:19:34 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: <20040913041739.GC17055@wookimus.net> References: <41451B6F.7040506@cpinternet.com> <20040913041739.GC17055@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <914f813c040913041954e755c2@mail.gmail.com> Actually, at the Univ. of Minn., I never had a single class that required it. I bought it anyway, as it was a much better reference book on the language itself; rather, most of my classes required a book that focused on programming methodologies and concepts and taught C/C++ syntax sporadically or in an Appendix. The U's C++ programming class [for engineers/non-majors] used Deitel & Deitel's C++ book. Additionally, a link posted previously proved to contain a lot of good information, except that link is dead now. Instead, see www.techbooksforfree.com/ccpp.shtml. Hopefully one of those will give you what you need. John On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 23:17:39 -0500, Chad Walstrom wrote: > Olwe Melwasul wrote: > > Does anyone know of any good on-line (free) Unix/Linux-oriented C > > tutorial/manual/reference books either in PS or PDF format? Google > > produces a flood. > > Not that I know of, but it would be a good idea to purchase the K&R ANSI > C book. You can find used ones on the Amazon or B&N site for fairly > cheap. It is still THE book used by Computing Science classes around > the nation. > > -- > Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ > assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > -- John T. Hoffoss _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Mon Sep 13 07:49:00 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: <20040913041739.GC17055@wookimus.net> Message-ID: I'll second Chewie's nomination for the K&R Ansi C book. Staple of CSci for years now. Same goes for Deitel & Deitel on C++. There are also numerous books on system programming in C specific to Linux and Unix, depending on precisely what you were looking to do. On Sun, 12 Sep 2004, Chad Walstrom wrote: [NON-Text Body part not included] _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Mon Sep 13 07:58:38 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: <914f813c040913041954e755c2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > The U's C++ programming class [for engineers/non-majors] used Deitel & > Deitel's C++ book. Interesting - I was a CSci major, but never took C++. I had to buy D&D for "Algorithms and Data Structures". More precisely, since I had Sturtivant, it was "Alllgorithms and *cough* Dater *cough* *cough* Structures" Written text cannot convey the particular nuances of the Queen's English when spoken by a true Brit. Add to that Carl's nervous cough, and you have 1 hour of pure CSci edutainment. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Sep 13 08:38:19 2004 From: smac at visi.com (smac@visi.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1095082699.4145a2cb7f79c@my.visi.com> I've been away from programming for at least 10 years. Can "C" be learned from a book or should one take a class? I loved Assembly Language in school but went to COBOL for the big bucks... ;-D Algorithms and Data Structurs sounds interesting for some reason... as does "K&R Ansi C" sounds like a strait forward book. Any hope for us middle age Linux monkies to pickup these books and be able to write more then "Hello World"? ;o) Sam. Quoting Adam Maloney : > > The U's C++ programming class [for engineers/non-majors] used Deitel & > > Deitel's C++ book. > > Interesting - I was a CSci major, but never took C++. I had to buy D&D > for "Algorithms and Data Structures". More precisely, since I had > Sturtivant, it was "Alllgorithms and *cough* Dater *cough* *cough* > Structures" > > Written text cannot convey the particular nuances of the Queen's English > when spoken by a true Brit. Add to that Carl's nervous cough, and you > have 1 hour of pure CSci edutainment. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dutchman_mn at charter.net Mon Sep 13 09:06:31 2004 From: dutchman_mn at charter.net (dutchman_mn@charter.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dynamic Classpath Message-ID: <391ogq$7vimuv@mxip03a.cluster1.charter.net> I am trying to build a dynamic Java CLASSPATH by looking at all the *.jar files in a particular directory, iterate over them and appending them. My shell command looks like this: for JAR_FILE in $LIB_DIR/*.jar do TEMPPATH=$TEMPPATH:$JAR_FILE done However, all I get is: /opt/application/lib/*.jar Thoughts on what I am doing wrong? Perry Hoekstra _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Mon Sep 13 09:17:48 2004 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200409131417.i8DEHmC32387@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: 2 Routers for Sale I did some house cleaning and decided to get rid of a couple of my routers, hopefully they can find a nice network to serve. Router 1 is a Netgear RT314. It was used for a couple years and never failed me. I recently upgraded to a wireless model though. I cannot seem to find the A/C adapter, I'll keep trying but you might have to use your own. $15.00 OBO Router 2 is a RouteFinder RF550VPN VPN SOHO Internet Security Appliance, or a VPN Router if you prefer. It was never used, I cannot remember why I bought it, must've been drunk. This URL (which is chopped in two because the TCLUG Classified web app doesn't like really long "words") has more info: http://www.multitech.com/ PRODUCTS/Families/SOHO_VPN/ I've seen these on the net go for anywhere from $125.00 to $175.00 - but for a TCLUG'r lets go with: $75.00 OBO. Thanks, Josh Trutwin Seller Email address: josh at trutwins dot homeip dot net http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Mon Sep 13 09:21:39 2004 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: References: <914f813c040913041954e755c2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040913092139.000033eb@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:58:38 -0500 (CDT) Adam Maloney wrote: > > The U's C++ programming class [for engineers/non-majors] used > > Deitel & Deitel's C++ book. > > Interesting - I was a CSci major, but never took C++. Back in my day (only about 10 years ago) we did C/C++. I'm teaching one of the beginning programming courses at Metrostate this year and it's all in Java. Cannot say for sure if I really agree with that or not for teaching basic programming. Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Mon Sep 13 09:05:03 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: <1095082699.4145a2cb7f79c@my.visi.com> Message-ID: > I've been away from programming for at least 10 years. > Can "C" be learned from a book or should one take a class? > I loved Assembly Language in school but went to COBOL for the > big bucks... ;-D I saw a huge difference when I learned x86 asm versus MIPS. I learned x86 out of a book, which taught me syntax and registers, etc. When I learned MIPS at the U, I learned a lot of techniques that the books really don't teach. It was almost night and day. I could see a definite change in the way I programmed assembler between the two architectures. Just little things that I never thought of, but make things much easier. I'm sure the same goes for any language. I don't write a lot of large programs, but I'm sure others on this list consider themselves professional programmers and can provide more insight. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dutchman_mn at charter.net Mon Sep 13 09:23:36 2004 From: dutchman_mn at charter.net (dutchman_mn@charter.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dynamic Classpath [Disregard] Message-ID: <3a57qo$7nc8a3@mxip06a.cluster1.charter.net> Please disregard, I found my issue (as he beats his head on the desk because of his stupidity). Sorry for the bandwidth consumption. Perry Hoekstra _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jwickard at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 09:25:30 2004 From: jwickard at gmail.com (Joel Wickard) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dynamic Classpath In-Reply-To: <391ogq$7vimuv@mxip03a.cluster1.charter.net> References: <391ogq$7vimuv@mxip03a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <3f0ccce004091307256f44c593@mail.gmail.com> what are you doing after you get this dynamic classpath built? Building a program? Have you looked into ant? On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:06:31 +0000, dutchman_mn@charter.net wrote: > I am trying to build a dynamic Java CLASSPATH by looking at all the *.jar files in a particular directory, iterate over them and appending them. My shell command looks like this: > > for JAR_FILE in $LIB_DIR/*.jar > do > TEMPPATH=$TEMPPATH:$JAR_FILE > done > > However, all I get is: /opt/application/lib/*.jar > > Thoughts on what I am doing wrong? > > Perry Hoekstra > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Joel Wickard Litrius Group _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Mon Sep 13 09:18:19 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dynamic Classpath In-Reply-To: <391ogq$7vimuv@mxip03a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: Try with this modification: for JAR_FILE in `ls -1 $LIB_DIR/*.jar` do TEMPPATH=$TEMPPATH:$JAR_FILE done _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.meier at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 09:32:17 2004 From: john.meier at gmail.com (meierjo) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dynamic Classpath In-Reply-To: <391ogq$7vimuv@mxip03a.cluster1.charter.net> References: <391ogq$7vimuv@mxip03a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <65293fcc04091307325575baae@mail.gmail.com> for JAR_FILE in `ls $LIB_DIR/*.jar` might help... On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:06:31 +0000, dutchman_mn@charter.net wrote: > I am trying to build a dynamic Java CLASSPATH by looking at all the *.jar files in a particular directory, iterate over them and appending them. My shell command looks like this: > > for JAR_FILE in $LIB_DIR/*.jar > do > TEMPPATH=$TEMPPATH:$JAR_FILE > done > > However, all I get is: /opt/application/lib/*.jar > > Thoughts on what I am doing wrong? > > Perry Hoekstra > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Mon Sep 13 09:54:44 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: <41451B6F.7040506@cpinternet.com>; from olwe@cpinternet.com on Sun, Sep 12, 2004 at 11:00:47PM -0500 References: <41451B6F.7040506@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: <20040913095444.A23349@thinkunix.net> Olwe Melwasul wrote: > Does anyone know of any good on-line (free) Unix/Linux-oriented C > tutorial/manual/reference books either in PS or PDF format? Google > produces a flood. I have some links to C related stuff here: http://thinkunix.net/unix/programming/C/ Also, do read the man pages for system calls (section 2) and library routines (section 3) as you learn/use them. If you have access to a couple different types of UNIX systems that can be helpful too as some vendors man pages are better then others (eg, Linux, FreeBSD, Solaris, etc.) -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Mon Sep 13 10:10:27 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FC2 on HP DL140 Message-ID: <20040913101027.A7706@thinkunix.net> Anyone have success installing Fedora Core 2 on an HP DL140 (1U server)? HP DL140's use Broadcom Gigabit Nic's which should use the "tg3" module. FC2 does not recoginze them even with "tg3" loaded. Installed RH9 to see what it thinks of the Nics; it finds them using "tg3" and ID's them as "Tigon3 part# BCM95704A6 rev 2002"; nics work. Upgraded RH9 to FC2 and nics no longer work; kudzu even prompts you "the following device has been removed from your system". Googling shows others have had this problem with no resolution. googled for: '"hp dl140" fedora tg3' (and got only 4 results) References: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/2004-June/msg01666.html http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/2004-August/msg03444.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2004/06/thrd8.html http://linux.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/Debian/2004-06/ FC2 installs a 2.6.x kernel by default. Any suggestions? -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From justin.kremer at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 10:15:54 2004 From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: References: <4145137D.7040600@joshwelch.com> Message-ID: <27e6356a040913081515bf226d@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 23:08:00 -0500, Erik Anderson > Maybe I'll have to consider going the 802.11g route. I would personally not recommend going that route unless you already have laptops that you wish to be able to use with wireless, and then only as a second option, unless your only need is to use the Internet. I used to live in a house where everyone had wireless in their laptop and I would still plug my laptop into the wired network any time I did any file transfer within our network because of the huge difference in speed. -- Justin Kremer _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Mon Sep 13 10:37:32 2004 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: <32fd453704091221445cc45f23@mail.gmail.com> References: <4145137D.7040600@joshwelch.com> <32fd453704091221445cc45f23@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2092.192.168.100.2.1095089852.squirrel@192.168.100.2> Just to add: plenum wears a Teflon jacket (which is a fluorine compound). > Plenum is *also* usually better shielded than standard PVC, thus good > for running in walls, where you most likely would be running it along > power lines, etc. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dutchman_mn at charter.net Mon Sep 13 10:37:08 2004 From: dutchman_mn at charter.net (dutchman_mn@charter.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dynamic Classpath Message-ID: <391r9h$99lsn0@mxip16a.cluster1.charter.net> > what are you doing after you get this dynamic classpath > built? Building a program? Have you looked into ant? No, I am building a script to startup a program that has about two dozen *.jar dependencies that need to be on the CLASSPATH. I could have hand-coded them and had it working a lot sooner but what fun is that? Perry Hoekstra _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erikerik at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 10:40:17 2004 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: <27e6356a040913081515bf226d@mail.gmail.com> References: <4145137D.7040600@joshwelch.com> <27e6356a040913081515bf226d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:15:54 -0500, Justin Kremer wrote: > I would personally not recommend going that route unless you already > have laptops that you wish to be able to use with wireless, and then > only as a second option, unless your only need is to use the Internet. > I used to live in a house where everyone had wireless in their laptop > and I would still plug my laptop into the wired network any time I did > any file transfer within our network because of the huge difference in > speed. Yeah - I'm really torn between the relative ease of going wireless and devoting the time and $$$ for the more permanent cat5 solution. In my current house, I'm just using 802.11b, but that's mainly due to the plaster walls/ceilings that make retro-fitting data cable somewhat difficult. In the new place, I'll have access to most of the rooms either via false ceilings (in the basement) or via the attic. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From narshe at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 10:48:16 2004 From: narshe at gmail.com (Josh Close) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: <20040913092139.000033eb@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> References: <914f813c040913041954e755c2@mail.gmail.com> <20040913092139.000033eb@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> Message-ID: <4a0cafe2040913084876f0b17f@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:21:39 -0500, Josh Trutwin wrote: > On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:58:38 -0500 (CDT) > Adam Maloney wrote: > > > > The U's C++ programming class [for engineers/non-majors] used > > > Deitel & Deitel's C++ book. > > > > Interesting - I was a CSci major, but never took C++. > > Back in my day (only about 10 years ago) we did C/C++. I'm teaching > one of the beginning programming courses at Metrostate this year and > it's all in Java. Cannot say for sure if I really agree with that or > not for teaching basic programming. > > Josh I think java is a waste of time for csci. As a beginning programming course it could teach the fundamentals, but I've heard of schools wanting to switch from C++ to java for csci majors..... Java is just too slow..... I can't see it being used for much more than web applications IMHO. -Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From markdeb.browne at comcast.net Mon Sep 13 11:04:26 2004 From: markdeb.browne at comcast.net (Mark Browne) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: <1095082699.4145a2cb7f79c@my.visi.com> Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of smac@visi.com Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 7:38 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? > I've been away from programming for at least 10 years. > Can "C" be learned from a book or should one take a class? > I loved Assembly Language in school but went to COBOL for the > big bucks... ;-D > > Algorithms and Data Structurs sounds interesting for some reason... > as does "K&R Ansi C" sounds like a strait forward book. > > Any hope for us middle age Linux monkies to pickup these books > and be able to write more then "Hello World"? ;o) > > Sam. Your first step it to take a critical self assessment. Are you the kind of person who can stay with it after the fun wears off and it starts to get a little bit like work? If you *can* stick to it without supervision, dig in! The only reason to take the class is to provide pace and focus. OK - The peer pressure helps. OK - certain employers need this sort of thing. Assuming that you intend to strike out on your own, this method works for me: 1) Get *the* book; K&R in this case. If you like a little more structure in your lessons also get one of the "learn xyz in 30 days" books. 2) Cruise some source code to see how other people use it. The open source community has examples of just about any kind of software you can imagine. Dig in. 3) Try a multi-thousand line program to learn how *you* solve real problems. Repeat #2 when you get stuck. Please resist the temptation -- don't add to the open source projects until you have some sort of idea what you are doing. 4) So how do you know when you are done? When you have finished #3 above, read *the* book (#1 above) cover to cover again. When you can read *the* book from cover to cover and know how *everything* works you can pat yourself on the back and say that you are done. Still have some "iffy parts? Look at the parts that did not make a lot of sense. After spending some time coding you will have developed a feel for how the language gets things done. At this point you should be mentally prepared to see how the missing parts fit in. If that does not do it, there are always resources like newsgroups and online tutorials. You may also see some parts and say something like "Oh, if I had used that it would have been *so* much easier!" If you are like me you will want to try slinging some code to see how the "new" toys work. For what it's worth, I have been coding for 30 years and I keep learning new things about every language I know. 5) Smile. Mark Browne _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sulrich at botwerks.org Mon Sep 13 11:08:52 2004 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: <4a0cafe2040913084876f0b17f@mail.gmail.com> References: <914f813c040913041954e755c2@mail.gmail.com> <20040913092139.000033eb@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <4a0cafe2040913084876f0b17f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <34B5A1D6-059F-11D9-9DD7-000A95B35200@botwerks.org> On Sep 13, 2004, at 10:48 AM, Josh Close wrote: > On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:21:39 -0500, Josh Trutwin > wrote: >> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:58:38 -0500 (CDT) >> Adam Maloney wrote: >> >>>> The U's C++ programming class [for engineers/non-majors] used >>>> Deitel & Deitel's C++ book. >>> >>> Interesting - I was a CSci major, but never took C++. >> >> Back in my day (only about 10 years ago) we did C/C++. I'm teaching >> one of the beginning programming courses at Metrostate this year and >> it's all in Java. Cannot say for sure if I really agree with that or >> not for teaching basic programming. >> >> Josh > > > I think java is a waste of time for csci. As a beginning programming > course it could teach the fundamentals, but I've heard of schools > wanting to switch from C++ to java for csci majors..... Java is just > too slow..... I can't see it being used for much more than web > applications IMHO. the point of using java as the programming language in csci coursework is to emphasize the principles behind software engineering and to do so with something that has an acceptably developed toolkit. from that perspective, java is a decent language to learn on. one would hope that the objective in a csci curriculum isn't to churn out coders but to develop engineers, which are capable of picking up any appropriate tool and solving the problem at hand. -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Mon Sep 13 11:12:12 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: References: <20040913041739.GC17055@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20040913161212.GA21755@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Mon Sep 13 11:26:18 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: <34B5A1D6-059F-11D9-9DD7-000A95B35200@botwerks.org> References: <914f813c040913041954e755c2@mail.gmail.com> <20040913092139.000033eb@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <4a0cafe2040913084876f0b17f@mail.gmail.com> <34B5A1D6-059F-11D9-9DD7-000A95B35200@botwerks.org> Message-ID: <20040913162618.GB21755@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Mon Sep 13 11:42:51 2004 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: References: <4145137D.7040600@joshwelch.com> <27e6356a040913081515bf226d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Sep 2004, Erik Anderson wrote: > Yeah - I'm really torn between the relative ease of going wireless and > devoting the time and $$$ for the more permanent cat5 solution. > > In my current house, I'm just using 802.11b, but that's mainly due to > the plaster walls/ceilings that make retro-fitting data cable somewhat > difficult. In the new place, I'll have access to most of the rooms > either via false ceilings (in the basement) or via the attic. Put the wire in. It's worth it. I tried feeding my firewall with internet access via 802.11g in my condo for awhile, and finally got fed up and installed some cat5 (which was rather painful, but well worth it.) I was seeing higher latency (+5-10ms) and some packet loss (depending on who was sitting where in the house) with the wireless, which was really messing with Vonage at times. :) I could've probably used a couple external antennas, but it would've still been a bit of a hack in my opinion. I still do use wireless for one of my MythTV frontends and my laptop (when it's not sitting on my desk next to my workstation), but not for anything critical. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Mon Sep 13 11:36:39 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: References: <4145137D.7040600@joshwelch.com> <27e6356a040913081515bf226d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040913163639.GC21755@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From narshe at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 11:35:23 2004 From: narshe at gmail.com (Josh Close) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: <34B5A1D6-059F-11D9-9DD7-000A95B35200@botwerks.org> References: <914f813c040913041954e755c2@mail.gmail.com> <20040913092139.000033eb@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <4a0cafe2040913084876f0b17f@mail.gmail.com> <34B5A1D6-059F-11D9-9DD7-000A95B35200@botwerks.org> Message-ID: <4a0cafe204091309355e045f6a@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:08:52 -0500, steve ulrich wrote: > > On Sep 13, 2004, at 10:48 AM, Josh Close wrote: > > > On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:21:39 -0500, Josh Trutwin > > > > wrote: > >> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:58:38 -0500 (CDT) > >> Adam Maloney wrote: > >> > >>>> The U's C++ programming class [for engineers/non-majors] used > >>>> Deitel & Deitel's C++ book. > >>> > >>> Interesting - I was a CSci major, but never took C++. > >> > >> Back in my day (only about 10 years ago) we did C/C++. I'm teaching > >> one of the beginning programming courses at Metrostate this year and > >> it's all in Java. Cannot say for sure if I really agree with that or > >> not for teaching basic programming. > >> > >> Josh > > > > > > I think java is a waste of time for csci. As a beginning programming > > course it could teach the fundamentals, but I've heard of schools > > wanting to switch from C++ to java for csci majors..... Java is just > > too slow..... I can't see it being used for much more than web > > applications IMHO. > > the point of using java as the programming language in csci coursework > is to emphasize the principles behind software engineering and to do so > with something that has an acceptably developed toolkit. from that > perspective, java is a decent language to learn on. one would hope > that the objective in a csci curriculum isn't to churn out coders but > to develop engineers, which are capable of picking up any appropriate > tool and solving the problem at hand. > > -- > steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org I would agree with you on this. But java also does a lot of things for you. You pretty much have to do everything yourself in C or C++. That's why I would think those two languages would be better to learn with. -Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 11:47:01 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: References: <4145137D.7040600@joshwelch.com> <27e6356a040913081515bf226d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <914f813c040913094748cf8402@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:40:17 -0500, Erik Anderson wrote: > On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:15:54 -0500, Justin Kremer > wrote: > > I would personally not recommend going that route unless you already > > have laptops that you wish to be able to use with wireless, and then > > only as a second option, unless your only need is to use the Internet. > > I used to live in a house where everyone had wireless in their laptop > > and I would still plug my laptop into the wired network any time I did > > any file transfer within our network because of the huge difference in > > speed. > > Yeah - I'm really torn between the relative ease of going wireless and > devoting the time and $$$ for the more permanent cat5 solution. > > In my current house, I'm just using 802.11b, but that's mainly due to > the plaster walls/ceilings that make retro-fitting data cable somewhat > difficult. In the new place, I'll have access to most of the rooms > either via false ceilings (in the basement) or via the attic. WRT to pulling cable, I had cable installed in my new house last week, and he had a 3' 3/4" bit with a hole drilled in the end, so he just went straight into the wall, then down at a tight angle through the floor. Of course, the drop ceiling in the basement was what made this possible, but if you can do this in the basement or attic, it's relatively painless, all things considered. I'll probably wire my place up like this and try to retrofit some smurf tube in there as well. Eventually, I'd like to be rid of drop ceiling and more formally finish my basement. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Mon Sep 13 11:48:08 2004 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200409131648.i8DGm8Z05706@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: P4 3.2ghz/512k Processor FS: P4 3.2ghz/512k/800FSB + fan, $200. P4 3.2ghz processor (Socket 478) with 512k of cache; 800mhz FSB, supports HyperThreading and all that good stuff. Purchased it with a Dell PowerEdge motherboard that I'm using in my file server; used this processor for about a month, and replaced it with a Celeron. (It's my file server - I can't waste this kind of CPU on that!) Also includes a heatsink that was purchased when I got the motherboard, and used for about a month also. Drop me an e-mail if you're interested. Seller Email address: tclug-classifieds at natecarlson dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 12:04:21 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: <20040913162618.GB21755@wookimus.net> References: <914f813c040913041954e755c2@mail.gmail.com> <20040913092139.000033eb@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <4a0cafe2040913084876f0b17f@mail.gmail.com> <34B5A1D6-059F-11D9-9DD7-000A95B35200@botwerks.org> <20040913162618.GB21755@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <914f813c0409131004742e4583@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:26:18 -0500, Chad Walstrom wrote: > steve ulrich wrote: > > the point of using java as the programming language in csci coursework > > is to emphasize the principles behind software engineering and to do > > so with something that has an acceptably developed toolkit. This point I would nitpick...I think the point of Java is less about software engineering process, and more about learning the simple basics of programming itself. By focusing on loop optimization, logic controls, etc. you remove some of the tedious and fickle parts of programming in C/C++ as a newb. More on this at the end. > This will always be a topic of contention within the scholarly circles. > I found learning about memory management and pointers in C as quite > valuable. It roots you into the basics elements of the computer, > perhaps not so much as Assembly would, but for a high-level languages, > it gives you access to memory that Java doesn't. If you forget about > the differences between passing references and passing copies, your > program is foobar'ed. Pointer arithmetic and resolution was actually > fun. I agree wholeheartedly, but learning about memory management in your first or second course is a bit too much, as would be software engineering principles at anything but a high-level overview. > I feel that software engineering with Garbage Collection environments > makes programmers lazy. Hence, we see the bloat of Microsoft when it > employs armies of Visual Basic and Visual FoxPro programmers to write > software. Agreed. > > from that perspective, java is a decent language to learn on. one > > would hope that the objective in a csci curriculum isn't to churn out > > coders but to develop engineers, which are capable of picking up any > > appropriate tool and solving the problem at hand. In a good curriculum, yes. A BS of CS grad should be able to pick up a language with relative ease, and should at least understand why C/C++ or Java may be better in certain situations, where others may want Python or Ruby. > I equate programming to engineering with carpentry to architecture. You > can't build a house unless you know how to use the tools. You can't > design a house unless you understand the process involved or the > physical strengths and weaknesses of the materials you're using. You > can become an architect without ever picking up a hammer, but you can > never become a carpenter by exclusively designing buildings. A good analogy, IMO. > CSci programs have four years to make their students both carpenters and > architects, programmers and engineers. I don't believe that the first > year is critical for introducing engineering concepts, nor do I believe > Java is essential to teach engineering concepts. Besides, by learning > C, you learn more about the "materials" than you would with Java. In a full four-year degree curriculum, you don't need software engineering or in-depth "materials" knowledge immediately. First you need to learn how to use all your tools. In the case of programming, I would posit these tools are loops, logic controls, variables, and other data structures. Next would come all the libraries available in a particular language. I would start a student in this phase with Java, I think. The U actually uses Scheme here. From this stage, I would take the student and hand them C. (The U uses Java here, now.) Make them learn all the same stuff again, in a different language. This cements immediately the fact that on some level, the language does not matter, as you can do the same thing in another language once you learn it. It is at this point, that a student would move onto advanced optimization, software engineering, memory management, assembly, architecture, etc. Ideally, this would be finished with a senior project of some sort that goes back over everything, so the student can review all those concepts learned in the beginning, together with all the in-depth and advanced knowledge gained since, and then hopefully "get" how it all works together. Interestingly enough, the Programming for Scientists & Engineers course uses C++, rather than Java. This forces non-computer science students to get into exactly what I would avoid teaching even computer science students, immediately. I was a Teaching Assistant for this course for a semester, and I'll tell ya, some of those kids would have been great programmers had they learned to program before they had to learn pointers, references, and memory management. Others would have still sucked had we used Java, but it would've been easier to teach them. IMO, Perl or Python would have been much better suited to these kids...of course, I don't teach or design curriculum anywhere. My [rather long-winded] $0.02. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 12:06:43 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: <20040913163639.GC21755@wookimus.net> References: <4145137D.7040600@joshwelch.com> <27e6356a040913081515bf226d@mail.gmail.com> <20040913163639.GC21755@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <914f813c04091310066729b23f@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:36:39 -0500, Chad Walstrom wrote: > Still, I don't expect to live in this house for more than a few years, > so it may not be cost-effective. If you did it up properly and your realtor understood what "wired" really meant, it *could* be a selling point later on...I guess this would go more for smurf tube in general, than just cat5 or cat6 though. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blj at umn.edu Mon Sep 13 12:33:05 2004 From: blj at umn.edu (Brian Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: <4a0cafe2040913084876f0b17f@mail.gmail.com> References: <914f813c040913041954e755c2@mail.gmail.com> <20040913092139.000033eb@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <4a0cafe2040913084876f0b17f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4145D9D1.30603@umn.edu> Have you seen the recent speed comparisons of java and c++, java is catching up and pulling ahead in some areas, even including jvm loading time. see http://www.idiom.com/~zilla/Computer/javaCbenchmark.html and http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5602. second, what does speed have to do with if the language is good for learning cs? Josh Close wrote: >On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:21:39 -0500, Josh Trutwin > wrote: > > >>On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:58:38 -0500 (CDT) >>Adam Maloney wrote: >> >> >> >>>>The U's C++ programming class [for engineers/non-majors] used >>>>Deitel & Deitel's C++ book. >>>> >>>> >>>Interesting - I was a CSci major, but never took C++. >>> >>> >>Back in my day (only about 10 years ago) we did C/C++. I'm teaching >>one of the beginning programming courses at Metrostate this year and >>it's all in Java. Cannot say for sure if I really agree with that or >>not for teaching basic programming. >> >>Josh >> >> > > >I think java is a waste of time for csci. As a beginning programming >course it could teach the fundamentals, but I've heard of schools >wanting to switch from C++ to java for csci majors..... Java is just >too slow..... I can't see it being used for much more than web >applications IMHO. > >-Josh > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From narshe at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 13:38:33 2004 From: narshe at gmail.com (Josh Close) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: <4145D9D1.30603@umn.edu> References: <914f813c040913041954e755c2@mail.gmail.com> <20040913092139.000033eb@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <4a0cafe2040913084876f0b17f@mail.gmail.com> <4145D9D1.30603@umn.edu> Message-ID: <4a0cafe204091311383fc10f10@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:33:05 -0500, Brian Johnson wrote: > Have you seen the recent speed comparisons of java and c++, java is > catching up and pulling ahead in some areas, even including jvm loading > time. see http://www.idiom.com/~zilla/Computer/javaCbenchmark.html and > http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5602. > > second, what does speed have to do with if the language is good for > learning cs? Sorry, two thoughts mixed together there. Speed doesn't have anything to do with it. Java does too much for the user though. Like others were saying, students should learn about pointers and memory management. It helps then think better and write more robust programs if they know how it works. Why don't schools teach python/C then? Students could learn python for the basics, then learn C, and C works together seamlessly with python. They could learn the best of both worlds this way. Also, most linux programs are written in C. -Josh > > Josh Close wrote: > > >On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:21:39 -0500, Josh Trutwin > > > > wrote: > > > > > >>On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:58:38 -0500 (CDT) > >>Adam Maloney wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>>The U's C++ programming class [for engineers/non-majors] used > >>>>Deitel & Deitel's C++ book. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>Interesting - I was a CSci major, but never took C++. > >>> > >>> > >>Back in my day (only about 10 years ago) we did C/C++. I'm teaching > >>one of the beginning programming courses at Metrostate this year and > >>it's all in Java. Cannot say for sure if I really agree with that or > >>not for teaching basic programming. > >> > >>Josh > >> > >> > > > > > >I think java is a waste of time for csci. As a beginning programming > >course it could teach the fundamentals, but I've heard of schools > >wanting to switch from C++ to java for csci majors..... Java is just > >too slow..... I can't see it being used for much more than web > >applications IMHO. > > > >-Josh > > > >_______________________________________________ > >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > >Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > >tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Mon Sep 13 13:44:51 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: <914f813c0409131004742e4583@mail.gmail.com> References: <914f813c040913041954e755c2@mail.gmail.com> <20040913092139.000033eb@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <4a0cafe2040913084876f0b17f@mail.gmail.com> <34B5A1D6-059F-11D9-9DD7-000A95B35200@botwerks.org> <20040913162618.GB21755@wookimus.net> <914f813c0409131004742e4583@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <16709.60067.635123.756621@gargle.gargle.HOWL> OK, I'm sure this is going to cause a flamewar, but I would be inclined not to even use one of the procedural paradigm languages as an introduction to computer science. Here are three reasons why (there are others): 1. Recursion is fundamental to the theoretical underpinnings of computer science. You just can't follow most of CS theory without grasping Recursion. Recursion is hard. Looping is easy. Teach students recursion. They won't have any trouble figuring out how to use while() later on. But trying to teach theory or algorithms (particularly the analysis of algorithms) to someone who never grokked recursion is unbelievably painful (I've done it!). I remember being forbidden to use any looping constructs in my first semester of computer science. It was a very helpful discipline. 2. You don't have to learn how to print. The first thing you always have to learn with a procedural language is how to break the rules to get words to appear on the screen (originall, on paper). So first off you start teaching people how to print stuff, then you finally get around to the data handling. This is a confusing distraction. Avoiding the printing morass is a specific exaple of a general principle of avoiding language-lawyering. I'd specifically let C++ out of intro courses for that reason. Java is marginally better. C is simpler and cleaner, but violates my preferences ##1 and 3. 3. Too much fussing with compilers. Use a structurally simple language with a read-eval-print loop (lisp, apl, ML), so people can just type stuff at the console and see if it's working. Yeah, it's not resource-efficient enough to write an OS, but hey, you've got to leave SOMETHING for the second semester! ;-) Cheers, R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sulrich at botwerks.org Mon Sep 13 13:55:17 2004 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: <914f813c0409131004742e4583@mail.gmail.com> References: <914f813c040913041954e755c2@mail.gmail.com> <20040913092139.000033eb@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <4a0cafe2040913084876f0b17f@mail.gmail.com> <34B5A1D6-059F-11D9-9DD7-000A95B35200@botwerks.org> <20040913162618.GB21755@wookimus.net> <914f813c0409131004742e4583@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <74363618-05B6-11D9-9DD7-000A95B35200@botwerks.org> On Sep 13, 2004, at 12:04 PM, John T. Hoffoss wrote: > On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:26:18 -0500, Chad Walstrom > wrote: >> steve ulrich wrote: >>> the point of using java as the programming language in csci >>> coursework >>> is to emphasize the principles behind software engineering and to do >>> so with something that has an acceptably developed toolkit. > > This point I would nitpick...I think the point of Java is less about > software engineering process, and more about learning the simple > basics of programming itself. By focusing on loop optimization, logic > controls, etc. you remove some of the tedious and fickle parts of > programming in C/C++ as a newb. More on this at the end. you've nicely stated my real intent here. getting folks used to the basic concepts (logic, looping, etc.) is dead simple in java. but the other thing is the basic object oriented design that needs to start early by getting people into the appropriate mindset. folks don't have to focus on the mechanics of the language (which will change over time) but learn the concepts. >> This will always be a topic of contention within the scholarly >> circles. >> I found learning about memory management and pointers in C as quite >> valuable. It roots you into the basics elements of the computer, >> perhaps not so much as Assembly would, but for a high-level languages, >> it gives you access to memory that Java doesn't. If you forget about >> the differences between passing references and passing copies, your >> program is foobar'ed. Pointer arithmetic and resolution was actually >> fun. i would agree that these are important topics, but in many cases, these will vary from language to language and implementation to implementation. a common trap i've seen folks fall into is to focus on how the mechanisms of language operate but forget the principles involved with good software development practices. > I agree wholeheartedly, but learning about memory management in your > first or second course is a bit too much, as would be software > engineering principles at anything but a high-level overview. >> I feel that software engineering with Garbage Collection environments >> makes programmers lazy. Hence, we see the bloat of Microsoft when it >> employs armies of Visual Basic and Visual FoxPro programmers to write >> software. > > Agreed. let's be a bit more clear here, MS doesn't employ legions of VB & VFP programmers to write software, enterprises do. MS preached the gospel of rapid application development and provided an effective toolkit to do just that. the benefits were very appealing to corporations and the market and your daytime TV educational institutions have responded by churning out folks that can "program in VB". there are legions of folks that have learned how to code stuff up in a specific language (a principle language offender here is VB) but haven't absorbed the principles and the corresponding deliverable suck as a result. there are really good reasons for having GCs and no small number of papers have been written cursing and praising the relative merits of GCs. >>> from that perspective, java is a decent language to learn on. one >>> would hope that the objective in a csci curriculum isn't to churn out >>> coders but to develop engineers, which are capable of picking up any >>> appropriate tool and solving the problem at hand. > > In a good curriculum, yes. A BS of CS grad should be able to pick up a > language with relative ease, and should at least understand why C/C++ > or Java may be better in certain situations, where others may want > Python or Ruby. > >> I equate programming to engineering with carpentry to architecture. >> You >> can't build a house unless you know how to use the tools. You can't >> design a house unless you understand the process involved or the >> physical strengths and weaknesses of the materials you're using. You >> can become an architect without ever picking up a hammer, but you can >> never become a carpenter by exclusively designing buildings. > > A good analogy, IMO. > >> CSci programs have four years to make their students both carpenters >> and >> architects, programmers and engineers. I don't believe that the first >> year is critical for introducing engineering concepts, nor do I >> believe >> Java is essential to teach engineering concepts. Besides, by learning >> C, you learn more about the "materials" than you would with Java. > > In a full four-year degree curriculum, you don't need software > engineering or in-depth "materials" knowledge immediately. First you > need to learn how to use all your tools. In the case of programming, I > would posit these tools are loops, logic controls, variables, and > other data structures. Next would come all the libraries available in > a particular language. > > I would start a student in this phase with Java, I think. The U > actually uses Scheme here. From this stage, I would take the student > and hand them C. (The U uses Java here, now.) Make them learn all the > same stuff again, in a different language. This cements immediately > the fact that on some level, the language does not matter, as you can > do the same thing in another language once you learn it. exactly, the essential point here is: the language doesn't matter, the concepts do. in this industry we churn our toolkits with alarming frequency and C vs. java is really just a matter of religious preference. C brings you closer to what's happening on the metal, but that's not the critical element for understanding what's going on conceptually. > It is at this point, that a student would move onto advanced > optimization, software engineering, memory management, assembly, > architecture, etc. Ideally, this would be finished with a senior > project of some sort that goes back over everything, so the student > can review all those concepts learned in the beginning, together with > all the in-depth and advanced knowledge gained since, and then > hopefully "get" how it all works together. > > Interestingly enough, the Programming for Scientists & Engineers > course uses C++, rather than Java. This forces non-computer science > students to get into exactly what I would avoid teaching even computer > science students, immediately. I was a Teaching Assistant for this > course for a semester, and I'll tell ya, some of those kids would have > been great programmers had they learned to program before they had to > learn pointers, references, and memory management. Others would have > still sucked had we used Java, but it would've been easier to teach > them. IMO, Perl or Python would have been much better suited to these > kids...of course, I don't teach or design curriculum anywhere. > > My [rather long-winded] $0.02. -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 14:02:55 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: <4a0cafe204091311383fc10f10@mail.gmail.com> References: <914f813c040913041954e755c2@mail.gmail.com> <20040913092139.000033eb@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <4a0cafe2040913084876f0b17f@mail.gmail.com> <4145D9D1.30603@umn.edu> <4a0cafe204091311383fc10f10@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <914f813c04091312021ef47b5d@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:38:33 -0500, Josh Close wrote: > Why don't schools teach python/C then? Then Sun wouldn't give schools free/cheap hardare/software? /me ducks _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Sep 13 14:06:09 2004 From: smac at visi.com (smac@visi.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: <914f813c04091310066729b23f@mail.gmail.com> References: <4145137D.7040600@joshwelch.com> <27e6356a040913081515bf226d@mail.gmail.com> <20040913163639.GC21755@wookimus.net> <914f813c04091310066729b23f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1095102369.4145efa110ac3@my.visi.com> Go wireless if you don't want to invest in wire, jacks, patch cables, etc... Sam. Quoting "John T. Hoffoss" : > On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:36:39 -0500, Chad Walstrom > wrote: > > Still, I don't expect to live in this house for more than a few years, > > so it may not be cost-effective. > > If you did it up properly and your realtor understood what "wired" > really meant, it *could* be a selling point later on...I guess this > would go more for smurf tube in general, than just cat5 or cat6 > though. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From narshe at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 14:12:31 2004 From: narshe at gmail.com (Josh Close) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: <914f813c04091312021ef47b5d@mail.gmail.com> References: <914f813c040913041954e755c2@mail.gmail.com> <20040913092139.000033eb@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <4a0cafe2040913084876f0b17f@mail.gmail.com> <4145D9D1.30603@umn.edu> <4a0cafe204091311383fc10f10@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c04091312021ef47b5d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4a0cafe2040913121259e4ffd@mail.gmail.com> LOL. I like that answer :) -Josh On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:02:55 -0500, John T. Hoffoss wrote: > On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:38:33 -0500, Josh Close wrote: > > Why don't schools teach python/C then? > > Then Sun wouldn't give schools free/cheap hardare/software? > > /me ducks > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From todd at xnewbie.com Mon Sep 13 14:17:00 2004 From: todd at xnewbie.com (Todd) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hard Drive Setup Message-ID: <004201c499c6$40536cc0$1f00a8c0@baker5> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Mon Sep 13 15:01:46 2004 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hard Drive Setup In-Reply-To: <004201c499c6$40536cc0$1f00a8c0@baker5> References: <004201c499c6$40536cc0$1f00a8c0@baker5> Message-ID: <23782.12.47.38.130.1095105706.squirrel@12.47.38.130> Look into your system BIOS to see if you can support a larger drive than that. Is this an "older" computer system? > Hi Group, I'm writing today to find out how to increase the size of my new > ... snipped ... > my question is how can I use the rest of the 90 gb or so that are still > left? Thanks in advance to all that help. Todd > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 14:48:56 2004 From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hard Drive Setup In-Reply-To: <004201c499c6$40536cc0$1f00a8c0@baker5> References: <004201c499c6$40536cc0$1f00a8c0@baker5> Message-ID: <32fd4537040913124846c620be@mail.gmail.com> Sounds like a BIOS issue...the 29GB might be roughly the 32GB limit...maybe check for a BIOS update? ----- Original Message ----- From: Todd Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:17:00 -0500 Subject: [TCLUG] Hard Drive Setup To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Hi Group, I'm writing today to find out how to increase the size of my new 120 gb hard drive. You see I used ghost to copy my old 9 gb hard drive to the new 120 gb hard drive and when I look at the drive in windows using samba it shows that the drive is only 29 gb here is a fsdisk listing of my partition right now /sbin/sfdisk -l Disk /dev/hda: 4111 cylinders, 255 heads, 63 sectors/track Units = cylinders of 8225280 bytes, blocks of 1024 bytes, counting from 0 Device Boot Start End #cyls #blocks Id System /dev/hda1 * 0+ 42 43- 345366 83 Linux /dev/hda2 43 4004 3962 31824765 83 Linux end: (c,h,s) expected (1023,254,63) found (932,254,63) /dev/hda3 4005 4110 106 851445 82 Linux swap start: (c,h,s) expected (1023,254,63) found (933,0,1) end: (c,h,s) expected (1023,254,63) found (14,254,63) /dev/hda4 0 - 0 0 0 Empty my question is how can I use the rest of the 90 gb or so that are still left? Thanks in advance to all that help. Todd _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From todd at xnewbie.com Mon Sep 13 15:02:57 2004 From: todd at xnewbie.com (Todd) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hard Drive Setup References: <004201c499c6$40536cc0$1f00a8c0@baker5> <23782.12.47.38.130.1095105706.squirrel@12.47.38.130> Message-ID: <005e01c499cc$ab3bfd30$1f00a8c0@baker5> No it's only a year old, also how do you check the BIOS to see if it needs and update? Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garrett Krueger" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Hard Drive Setup > Look into your system BIOS to see if you can support a larger drive than > that. Is this an "older" computer system? > > > Hi Group, I'm writing today to find out how to increase the size of my new > > ... snipped ... > > my question is how can I use the rest of the 90 gb or so that are still > > left? Thanks in advance to all that help. Todd > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Mon Sep 13 15:33:14 2004 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: <20040913163639.GC21755@wookimus.net> References: <4145137D.7040600@joshwelch.com> <27e6356a040913081515bf226d@mail.gmail.com> <20040913163639.GC21755@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <41818.12.47.38.130.1095107594.squirrel@12.47.38.130> If you'll live there a "few years," then cost effective really isn't an issue since hard-wiring the house is quite cheap in comparison. For $300 you could wire it. > Still, I don't expect to live in this house for more than a few years, > so it may not be cost-effective. > > -- > Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ > assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erikerik at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 15:34:34 2004 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: <41818.12.47.38.130.1095107594.squirrel@12.47.38.130> References: <4145137D.7040600@joshwelch.com> <27e6356a040913081515bf226d@mail.gmail.com> <20040913163639.GC21755@wookimus.net> <41818.12.47.38.130.1095107594.squirrel@12.47.38.130> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:33:14 -0500 (CDT), Garrett Krueger wrote: > If you'll live there a "few years," then cost effective really isn't an > issue since hard-wiring the house is quite cheap in comparison. For $300 > you could wire it. Yeah - I think I'm gonna bear down and just wire the thing...I just won an auction on ebay for a 100' fish tape, and I think I'm going to try and snag one of those 3' flexible drill bits. Does anyone know where one of those can be located? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Mon Sep 13 15:37:56 2004 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: <914f813c0409131004742e4583@mail.gmail.com> References: <914f813c040913041954e755c2@mail.gmail.com> <20040913092139.000033eb@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <4a0cafe2040913084876f0b17f@mail.gmail.com> <34B5A1D6-059F-11D9-9DD7-000A95B35200@botwerks.org> <20040913162618.GB21755@wookimus.net> <914f813c0409131004742e4583@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040913153756.A8920@baker.space.umn.edu> On Mon, Sep 13, 2004 at 12:04:21PM -0500, John T. Hoffoss wrote: > Interestingly enough, the Programming for Scientists & Engineers > course uses C++, rather than Java. This forces non-computer science > students to get into exactly what I would avoid teaching even computer > science students, immediately. I was a Teaching Assistant for this > course for a semester, and I'll tell ya, some of those kids would have > been great programmers had they learned to program before they had to > learn pointers, references, and memory management. Others would have > still sucked had we used Java, but it would've been easier to teach > them. IMO, Perl or Python would have been much better suited to these > kids...of course, I don't teach or design curriculum anywhere. I agree that C++ is not an ideal first programming language from some stand points, bt it is a decent compromise. Science and engineering deparments want their students to a learn a language that is actually used in industry. Most large engineering and science codes (simulations, etc.) are written in Fortran or C/C++, so the departments want their students to learn those languages. Many CS departments don't want to teach Fortran, even though it is a much better intro language in a lot of ways. Pointers and memory management issues do exist in F90/F95 but they are advanced topics that can ignored at the beginning (unlike C/C++ where they are central issues). But CS departments would rather teach C++, so that's the usual compromise. I would agree that there would be some advantages to teaching Perl or Python to science and engineering majors. Those languages are nice for doing homework problems, etc. since you don't have to futz with compilers and there are nice plotting libraries easily available. Of course for problems at this level Mathematica/Matlab/IDL are all viable alternatives as well. I don't think Java makes any sense for this class, though. Very little science is done with Java, and it doesn't have the advantage of simplicity like Python. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kc0iog at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 15:37:21 2004 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hard Drive Setup In-Reply-To: <32fd4537040913124846c620be@mail.gmail.com> References: <004201c499c6$40536cc0$1f00a8c0@baker5> <32fd4537040913124846c620be@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c6699da04091313375e95b041@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:48:56 -0500, Keith Bachman wrote: > Sounds like a BIOS issue...the 29GB might be roughly the 32GB > limit...maybe check for a BIOS update? Also check the drive, many of them have a jumper to limit it to 32GB. Accroding to fdisk you have 4111 cylinders. 4111x255x63x512 = 32GB, so somebody thinks you have a 32GB drive. -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Mon Sep 13 15:49:45 2004 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: References: <4145137D.7040600@joshwelch.com> <27e6356a040913081515bf226d@mail.gmail.com> <20040913163639.GC21755@wookimus.net> <41818.12.47.38.130.1095107594.squirrel@12.47.38.130> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Sep 2004, Erik Anderson wrote: > Yeah - I think I'm gonna bear down and just wire the thing...I just won > an auction on ebay for a 100' fish tape, and I think I'm going to try > and snag one of those 3' flexible drill bits. Does anyone know where > one of those can be located? Home Depot carries the 6ft ones - they are like $30 for the bit, and $8-10 for the guide so you can go down through an outlet box. Be careful to get it straight down! I've had it come out the other side before, when I didn't cut a larger hole and pull the insulation out of the wall first. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ozark72949 at myrealbox.com Mon Sep 13 16:43:51 2004 From: ozark72949 at myrealbox.com (Allan F) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Thunderbird mailer question: quoting w/e-mail address In-Reply-To: <1094776753.5040.66.camel@3po> References: <1094696569.5040.55.camel@3po> <413FCB0D.60406@b-o-b.homelinux.com> <1094776753.5040.66.camel@3po> Message-ID: <41461497.7020105@myrealbox.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20040913/84f124ea/attachment.htm -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erikerik at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 15:59:44 2004 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: References: <4145137D.7040600@joshwelch.com> <27e6356a040913081515bf226d@mail.gmail.com> <20040913163639.GC21755@wookimus.net> <41818.12.47.38.130.1095107594.squirrel@12.47.38.130> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:49:45 -0500 (CDT), Nate Carlson wrote: > Home Depot carries the 6ft ones - they are like $30 for the bit, and $8-10 > for the guide so you can go down through an outlet box. Be careful to get > it straight down! I've had it come out the other side before, when I > didn't cut a larger hole and pull the insulation out of the wall first. Good piece of advice....thanks for the heads up. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Mon Sep 13 15:57:23 2004 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: References: <4145137D.7040600@joshwelch.com> <27e6356a040913081515bf226d@mail.gmail.com> <20040913163639.GC21755@wookimus.net> <41818.12.47.38.130.1095107594.squirrel@12.47.38.130> Message-ID: <20040913155723.A9691@baker.space.umn.edu> On Mon, Sep 13, 2004 at 03:34:34PM -0500, Erik Anderson wrote: > Yeah - I think I'm gonna bear down and just wire the thing...I just > won an auction on ebay for a 100' fish tape, and I think I'm going to > try and snag one of those 3' flexible drill bits. Does anyone know > where one of those can be located? Menards or Home Depot, among other places. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Mon Sep 13 16:22:35 2004 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: <20040913155723.A9691@baker.space.umn.edu> References: <4145137D.7040600@joshwelch.com> <27e6356a040913081515bf226d@mail.gmail.com> <20040913163639.GC21755@wookimus.net> <41818.12.47.38.130.1095107594.squirrel@12.47.38.130> <20040913155723.A9691@baker.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <11191.12.47.38.130.1095110555.squirrel@12.47.38.130> If you're not in an immediate hurry, you might try an online tool source to save a few bucks. I've used "S&J's Great Deals" for purchases. They're prompt and reliable as well as being fairly good in price. >> On Mon, Sep 13, 2004 at 03:34:34PM -0500, Erik Anderson wrote: >> Yeah - I think I'm gonna bear down and just wire the thing...I just won >>an auction on ebay for a 100' fish tape, and I think I'm going to try >>and snag one of those 3' flexible drill bits. Does anyone know where >>one of those can be located? > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Mon Sep 13 16:17:33 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: <41818.12.47.38.130.1095107594.squirrel@12.47.38.130> References: <4145137D.7040600@joshwelch.com> <27e6356a040913081515bf226d@mail.gmail.com> <20040913163639.GC21755@wookimus.net> <41818.12.47.38.130.1095107594.squirrel@12.47.38.130> Message-ID: <20040913211733.GF21755@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erikerik at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 16:38:11 2004 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: <20040913211733.GF21755@wookimus.net> References: <4145137D.7040600@joshwelch.com> <27e6356a040913081515bf226d@mail.gmail.com> <20040913163639.GC21755@wookimus.net> <41818.12.47.38.130.1095107594.squirrel@12.47.38.130> <20040913211733.GF21755@wookimus.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:17:33 -0500, Chad Walstrom wrote: > Cheap compared to already owning the equipment? ;-) To throw in another level of complexity.... It's probably cheap compared to the time lost in the future waiting for big file transfers over 802.11g. :-) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Mon Sep 13 16:19:20 2004 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Thunderbird mailer question: quoting w/e-mail address In-Reply-To: <41461497.7020105@myrealbox.com> References: <1094696569.5040.55.camel@3po> <413FCB0D.60406@b-o-b.homelinux.com> <1094776753.5040.66.camel@3po> <41461497.7020105@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <20040913211920.GA12213@mail.el-swifto.com> On Mon, Sep 13, 2004 at 04:43:51PM -0500, Allan F wrote: [snip] HTML is for the interweb, not email. -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Mon Sep 13 17:10:33 2004 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: <20040913211733.GF21755@wookimus.net> References: <4145137D.7040600@joshwelch.com> <27e6356a040913081515bf226d@mail.gmail.com> <20040913163639.GC21755@wookimus.net> <41818.12.47.38.130.1095107594.squirrel@12.47.38.130> <20040913211733.GF21755@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <8624.12.47.38.130.1095113433.squirrel@12.47.38.130> Cheap compared to potential return on investment ;) > Garrett Krueger wrote: >> If you'll live there a "few years," then cost effective really isn't >> an issue since hard-wiring the house is quite cheap in comparison. >> For $300 you could wire it. > > Cheap compared to already owning the equipment? ;-) > > -- > Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ > assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cncole at earthlink.net Mon Sep 13 17:39:44 2004 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: <11191.12.47.38.130.1095110555.squirrel@12.47.38.130> Message-ID: Harbor Freight Tool up in Columbia Heights is very inexpensive and local. I wouldn't order tools before looking there unless seeking something very unusual. Check/get a catalog http://www.harborfreight.com They may not carry CAT5 but Menards has some cheap CAT5 stuff. Chuck > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Garrett Krueger > Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 4:23 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question > > > If you're not in an immediate hurry, you might try an online tool source > to save a few bucks. I've used "S&J's Great Deals" for purchases. > They're prompt and reliable as well as being fairly good in price. > > >> On Mon, Sep 13, 2004 at 03:34:34PM -0500, Erik Anderson wrote: > >> Yeah - I think I'm gonna bear down and just wire the thing...I just won > >>an auction on ebay for a 100' fish tape, and I think I'm going to try > >>and snag one of those 3' flexible drill bits. Does anyone know where > >>one of those can be located? > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From leif.t.johnson at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 18:03:25 2004 From: leif.t.johnson at gmail.com (Leif Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: <16709.60067.635123.756621@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <914f813c040913041954e755c2@mail.gmail.com> <20040913092139.000033eb@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <4a0cafe2040913084876f0b17f@mail.gmail.com> <34B5A1D6-059F-11D9-9DD7-000A95B35200@botwerks.org> <20040913162618.GB21755@wookimus.net> <914f813c0409131004742e4583@mail.gmail.com> <16709.60067.635123.756621@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: Generally I agree with 'R'. Really the point of early CS courses should be to give a theoretical understanding of how programming works, the students shouldn't have to be worrying about incidental things like compiling and nit-picky languages (although these are a fact of life). > 1. Recursion is fundamental to the theoretical underpinnings of > computer science. You just can't follow most of CS theory without > grasping Recursion. > > Recursion is hard. > > Looping is easy. > > Teach students recursion. They won't have any trouble figuring > out how to use while() later on. But trying to teach theory or > algorithms (particularly the analysis of algorithms) to someone > who never grokked recursion is unbelievably painful (I've done > it!). > > I remember being forbidden to use any looping constructs in my > first semester of computer science. It was a very helpful > discipline. > Then tell them that they are never ever actually allowed to use recursion unless they can prove that the problem can be solved no other way. (just contributing to the flame-war.) leif _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Mon Sep 13 18:34:21 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: References: <914f813c040913041954e755c2@mail.gmail.com> <20040913092139.000033eb@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <4a0cafe2040913084876f0b17f@mail.gmail.com> <34B5A1D6-059F-11D9-9DD7-000A95B35200@botwerks.org> <20040913162618.GB21755@wookimus.net> <914f813c0409131004742e4583@mail.gmail.com> <16709.60067.635123.756621@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <16710.11901.661001.458981@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Leif" == Leif Johnson writes: >> >> I remember being forbidden to use any looping constructs in my >> first semester of computer science. It was a very helpful >> discipline. >> Leif> Then tell them that they are never ever actually allowed to use Leif> recursion unless they can prove that the problem can be solved no Leif> other way. (just contributing to the flame-war.) I suppose if you have a compiler that's so dumb it can't rewrite tail-recursion to iteration, that might be true. (JCTtF-w.) Seriously, the Scheme standard demands that this optimization be performed, so why would you ever avoid tail recursion in Scheme? I dunno about other languages. I think you pretty much want to avoid it in C! Cheers, R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From leif.t.johnson at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 18:45:17 2004 From: leif.t.johnson at gmail.com (Leif Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: <16710.11901.661001.458981@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <914f813c040913041954e755c2@mail.gmail.com> <20040913092139.000033eb@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <4a0cafe2040913084876f0b17f@mail.gmail.com> <34B5A1D6-059F-11D9-9DD7-000A95B35200@botwerks.org> <20040913162618.GB21755@wookimus.net> <914f813c0409131004742e4583@mail.gmail.com> <16709.60067.635123.756621@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <16710.11901.661001.458981@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: I never heard of Scheme! It's the first language that I've heard of that was designed to make recursion practical. Now I'm curious to see if any other language has taken this approach. On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:34:21 -0500, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > >>>>> "Leif" == Leif Johnson writes: > >> > >> I remember being forbidden to use any looping constructs in my > >> first semester of computer science. It was a very helpful > >> discipline. > >> > > Leif> Then tell them that they are never ever actually allowed to use > Leif> recursion unless they can prove that the problem can be solved no > Leif> other way. (just contributing to the flame-war.) > > I suppose if you have a compiler that's so dumb it can't rewrite > tail-recursion to iteration, that might be true. (JCTtF-w.) > > Seriously, the Scheme standard demands that this optimization be > performed, so why would you ever avoid tail recursion in Scheme? I > dunno about other languages. I think you pretty much want to avoid it > in C! > > Cheers, > R > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 20:57:01 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: <20040913153756.A8920@baker.space.umn.edu> References: <914f813c040913041954e755c2@mail.gmail.com> <20040913092139.000033eb@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <4a0cafe2040913084876f0b17f@mail.gmail.com> <34B5A1D6-059F-11D9-9DD7-000A95B35200@botwerks.org> <20040913162618.GB21755@wookimus.net> <914f813c0409131004742e4583@mail.gmail.com> <20040913153756.A8920@baker.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <914f813c040913185753d1af33@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:37:56 -0500, Jim Crumley wrote: > libraries easily available. Of course for problems at this level > Mathematica/Matlab/IDL are all viable alternatives as well. But not free/easily available unless I'm going to the lab (or SSH'd in) which isn't tough, but not as easy as perl/python right on my personal pc... _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 21:02:20 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: References: <914f813c040913041954e755c2@mail.gmail.com> <20040913092139.000033eb@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <4a0cafe2040913084876f0b17f@mail.gmail.com> <34B5A1D6-059F-11D9-9DD7-000A95B35200@botwerks.org> <20040913162618.GB21755@wookimus.net> <914f813c0409131004742e4583@mail.gmail.com> <16709.60067.635123.756621@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <16710.11901.661001.458981@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <914f813c04091319027eef841f@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:45:17 -0500, Leif Johnson wrote: > I never heard of Scheme! It's the first language that I've heard of > that was designed to make recursion practical. Now I'm curious to see > if any other language has taken this approach. (((((scheme)(is))fun))) ((though(it)can))(cause(many(nightmare))s)) I hated using it, but I loved it at the same point, it was a great learning tool. I was one of those tards who read through "Learn C++ in 21 Days" and thought I could program, so this was an appropriate smack-down. Once I started to get it, the simple beauty of some of that code still kinda makes my jaw drop. I still can't write code in any language worth a damn, [compared to most CSci friends, who tend to be exceptional] but I can appreciate others' code... _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From olwe at cpinternet.com Mon Sep 13 21:24:08 2004 From: olwe at cpinternet.com (Olwe Melwasul) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: References: <914f813c040913041954e755c2@mail.gmail.com> <20040913092139.000033eb@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <4a0cafe2040913084876f0b17f@mail.gmail.com> <34B5A1D6-059F-11D9-9DD7-000A95B35200@botwerks.org> <20040913162618.GB21755@wookimus.net> <914f813c0409131004742e4583@mail.gmail.com> <16709.60067.635123.756621@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <16710.11901.661001.458981@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <41465648.6090702@cpinternet.com> CompSci is SO bizarre! When I was knocking around CS (stork with twins ended my grad school hopes ;-) ), there were so many conflicting facts and opinions about computers. This was at Wichita State. We had a Lisp genius who did automated math theorem proofs. I asked him in an email if I should maybe tackle Lisp. His email reply said "No, learn C". Three words. Short, concise, to the point. And there was the UW(ash) professor who was a firm believer that any language that let you do the stuff C/Assembler/C++ etc. did should be left in the past. The argument goes that speed is good enough these days, CPU cycles are practically free, so it's time to move forward and stop the blood-and-guts pointer pennance and go-it-alone memory management games. Then I find out that practically nothing MS has ever sold actually used Visual C++ (something they pushed relentlessly as THE Big Project environment). MS uses blood-and-guts C with the usual mountain of MS secret tricks. Then they push all these IDEs that do basically one thing: data management on Windows. Lord help you if you get off their straight line expressway through the jungle. Then there's Big Eric Raymond with his "The Art of Unix Programming." He says C's great and scripting languages too. He's very happy with the byzantine, wooden-handled level of Unix--then, now, and in the future. Then there's Knuth who had his own home-brewed assembler (the latest runs on a virtual MIPS environment). For him even C is too low-brow. And then there's Lisp-Meister Paul Graham. I read about a functional language conference he attended where some Perl people showed up. A panel discussion left Perl a bloody pulp. Graham is famous for Yahoo Stores, which has lots of Lisp in it. Orbitz also has Lisp. In general, if programmers get good at something, they have the subjective, self-serving if not paranoid tendency to see the computer world revolving around their skill set, their language(s). [your-language-here] can do everything! Oddly enough, I (as well as Bill Joy, Ray Kurzweil and others) grok what the Unabomber Ted K. was saying about computers and technology. In a nutshell, if a system is running, and you depend on it for something critical, and you don't know how to do without it (can't turn it off and walk away), and you no longer know how it works), you are it's slave. Forget The Matrix or AI dystopias. It's a real Alice in Wonderland out there. So many angles, so little time. Makes me want to just hack Emacs for the rest of my life. Olwe Leif Johnson wrote: >I never heard of Scheme! It's the first language that I've heard of >that was designed to make recursion practical. Now I'm curious to see >if any other language has taken this approach. > >On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:34:21 -0500, rpgoldman@real-time.com > wrote: > > >>>>>>>"Leif" == Leif Johnson writes: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >> >> >> >> I remember being forbidden to use any looping constructs in my >> >> first semester of computer science. It was a very helpful >> >> discipline. >> >> >> >> Leif> Then tell them that they are never ever actually allowed to use >> Leif> recursion unless they can prove that the problem can be solved no >> Leif> other way. (just contributing to the flame-war.) >> >>I suppose if you have a compiler that's so dumb it can't rewrite >>tail-recursion to iteration, that might be true. (JCTtF-w.) >> >>Seriously, the Scheme standard demands that this optimization be >>performed, so why would you ever avoid tail recursion in Scheme? I >>dunno about other languages. I think you pretty much want to avoid it >>in C! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Mon Sep 13 21:24:42 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: <914f813c040913185753d1af33@mail.gmail.com> References: <914f813c040913041954e755c2@mail.gmail.com> <20040913092139.000033eb@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <4a0cafe2040913084876f0b17f@mail.gmail.com> <34B5A1D6-059F-11D9-9DD7-000A95B35200@botwerks.org> <20040913162618.GB21755@wookimus.net> <914f813c0409131004742e4583@mail.gmail.com> <20040913153756.A8920@baker.space.umn.edu> <914f813c040913185753d1af33@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <16710.22122.403223.393430@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "John" == John T Hoffoss writes: John> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:37:56 -0500, Jim Crumley John> wrote: John> >> libraries easily available. Of course for problems at this level >> Mathematica/Matlab/IDL are all viable alternatives as well. John> But not free/easily available unless I'm going to the lab (or SSH'd John> in) which isn't tough, but not as easy as perl/python right on my John> personal pc... I think most EE's are used to spending a load of time in the lab anyway, and Matlab is a very friendly language for engineers. There's a fellow at Macalester whose name I'm afraid I've forgotten, who teaches MATLAB as a first language (for non-CS majors IIRC), and has written a textbook for the purpose. Cheers _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 21:39:06 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: <16710.22122.403223.393430@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <914f813c040913041954e755c2@mail.gmail.com> <20040913092139.000033eb@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <4a0cafe2040913084876f0b17f@mail.gmail.com> <34B5A1D6-059F-11D9-9DD7-000A95B35200@botwerks.org> <20040913162618.GB21755@wookimus.net> <914f813c0409131004742e4583@mail.gmail.com> <20040913153756.A8920@baker.space.umn.edu> <914f813c040913185753d1af33@mail.gmail.com> <16710.22122.403223.393430@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <914f813c04091319395ff571ed@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:24:42 -0500, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > I think most EE's are used to spending a load of time in the lab > anyway, and Matlab is a very friendly language for engineers. No argument there! _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sulrich at botwerks.org Thu Sep 9 08:37:02 2004 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] YAGI - Get 'em while they'er hot! (usage stats) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040909133702.GA1590@botwerks.org> when last we saw our hero (Thursday, Sep 09, 2004), Mark Browne was madly tapping out: > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 5:59 PM > > > > http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-caef070b03-4f915271a6-52ead03695 Used Wed, 8 > Sep 2004 17:53:25 -0700 (PDT) > > http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-caef070b03-bebe65c7bc-e0138510d8 Used Thu, 9 > Sep 2004 04:37:37 -0700 (PDT) > > http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-caef070b03-1466f47402-198cbeeef0 Used Wed, 8 > Sep 2004 18:08:24 -0700 (PDT) > > http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-caef070b03-899cf48c47-173625119b Used Wed, 8 > Sep 2004 21:12:01 -0700 (PDT) > tricky, the subject line piqued my interest when i thought it was antennas that you had. -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From markdeb.browne at comcast.net Tue Sep 14 00:54:07 2004 From: markdeb.browne at comcast.net (Mark Browne) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] YAGI - Get 'em while they'er hot! (usage stats) In-Reply-To: <20040909133702.GA1590@botwerks.org> Message-ID: ;-) -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of steve ulrich Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 7:37 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] YAGI - Get 'em while they'er hot! (usage stats) when last we saw our hero (Thursday, Sep 09, 2004), Mark Browne was madly tapping out: > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 5:59 PM > > > > http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-caef070b03-4f915271a6-52ead03695 Used Wed, 8 > Sep 2004 17:53:25 -0700 (PDT) > > http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-caef070b03-bebe65c7bc-e0138510d8 Used Thu, 9 > Sep 2004 04:37:37 -0700 (PDT) > > http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-caef070b03-1466f47402-198cbeeef0 Used Wed, 8 > Sep 2004 18:08:24 -0700 (PDT) > > http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-caef070b03-899cf48c47-173625119b Used Wed, 8 > Sep 2004 21:12:01 -0700 (PDT) > tricky, the subject line piqued my interest when i thought it was antennas that you had. -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ________________________________________________________________ Keep unwanted email out. Visit www.spamsubtract.com for more information. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dan at dandrake.org Tue Sep 14 13:21:51 2004 From: dan at dandrake.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] no more gmail invites! just go to... Message-ID: <20040914182151.GA3321@aleph-one> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Tue Sep 14 13:45:52 2004 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200409141845.i8EIjq001200@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: ibm desktop hello- i have the following for sale: ibm 300PL, desktop, p3 450, 160mb pc100, 3gb hdd, int. nic and sound. $40 or b.o. Seller Email address: lombardo at evilcricket dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kc0iog at gmail.com Tue Sep 14 13:49:37 2004 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] no more gmail invites! just go to... In-Reply-To: <20040914182151.GA3321@aleph-one> References: <20040914182151.GA3321@aleph-one> Message-ID: <2c6699da04091411499f8eb2@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:21:51 -0500, Dan Drake wrote: > So, please, no more Gmail-invite threads! Let's just argue about C and > Lisp and Perl... So if I wanted to build a Gmail invite queueing system, should I use Lisp, Perl, or C? :-) -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Tue Sep 14 14:07:32 2004 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] no more gmail invites! just go to... In-Reply-To: <2c6699da04091411499f8eb2@mail.gmail.com> References: <20040914182151.GA3321@aleph-one> <2c6699da04091411499f8eb2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <41474174.1070702@redconcepts.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Tue Sep 14 14:44:16 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: <41465648.6090702@cpinternet.com> References: <914f813c040913041954e755c2@mail.gmail.com> <20040913092139.000033eb@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <4a0cafe2040913084876f0b17f@mail.gmail.com> <34B5A1D6-059F-11D9-9DD7-000A95B35200@botwerks.org> <20040913162618.GB21755@wookimus.net> <914f813c0409131004742e4583@mail.gmail.com> <16709.60067.635123.756621@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <16710.11901.661001.458981@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <41465648.6090702@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: <16711.18960.457122.743902@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Olwe" == Olwe Melwasul writes: Olwe> CompSci is SO bizarre! When I was knocking around CS (stork with twins Olwe> ended my grad school hopes ;-) ), there were so many conflicting facts Olwe> and opinions about computers. This was at Wichita State. We had a Lisp Olwe> genius who did automated math theorem proofs. I asked him in an email if Olwe> I should maybe tackle Lisp. His email reply said "No, learn C". Three Olwe> words. Short, concise, to the point. Olwe> And there was the UW(ash) professor who was a firm believer that any Olwe> language that let you do the stuff C/Assembler/C++ etc. did should be Olwe> left in the past. The argument goes that speed is good enough these Olwe> days, CPU cycles are practically free, so it's time to move forward and Olwe> stop the blood-and-guts pointer pennance and go-it-alone memory Olwe> management games. Olwe> Then I find out that practically nothing MS has ever sold actually used Olwe> Visual C++ (something they pushed relentlessly as THE Big Project Olwe> environment). MS uses blood-and-guts C with the usual mountain of MS Olwe> secret tricks. Then they push all these IDEs that do basically one Olwe> thing: data management on Windows. Lord help you if you get off their Olwe> straight line expressway through the jungle. Olwe> Then there's Big Eric Raymond with his "The Art of Unix Programming." He Olwe> says C's great and scripting languages too. He's very happy with the Olwe> byzantine, wooden-handled level of Unix--then, now, and in the future. Olwe> Then there's Knuth who had his own home-brewed assembler (the latest Olwe> runs on a virtual MIPS environment). For him even C is too low-brow. And Olwe> then there's Lisp-Meister Paul Graham. I read about a functional Olwe> language conference he attended where some Perl people showed up. A Olwe> panel discussion left Perl a bloody pulp. Graham is famous for Yahoo Olwe> Stores, which has lots of Lisp in it. Orbitz also has Lisp. Olwe> In general, if programmers get good at something, they have the Olwe> subjective, self-serving if not paranoid tendency to see the computer Olwe> world revolving around their skill set, their language(s). Olwe> [your-language-here] can do everything! No, that's just not fair to these people. Let's try to unpack what these people want to do with their languages, and I think you'll see that they are *not* paranoid, self-serving, yadda, yadda. They are just trying to do different things. For example, "Knuth who had his own home-brewed assembler.... For him even C is too low-brow." Knuth is NOT trying to write software in MIX (I think that's what it's called; I forget), nor is he trying to get YOU to write software in it. Knuth is interested in EXACT analysis of algorithms. He's trying to answer questions like "exactly how many multiplications will be done in the course of executing this algorithm" (among many, many other questions!). A clean assembly language, not tied to any particular chip, is useful for that project. Eric Raymond likes C, but says that you should learn Lisp, because learning it will make you a better hacker by making you think differently about programming. Paul Graham is really interested only in the software problems that come from running a very small business, where excellence and speed of development are critical factors. Perhaps he doesn't come out and say this as clearly as he might. If you want to start the next EDS, you don't want to work his way. But if you want to survive in a startup, you can't afford to work like EDS, either. The conversation we started with is "what's a good language for an introduction to CS?" or possibly "what's a good language for learning to program?" or possibly even "what's a good language for getting a job?" Those are probably not all the same question! At any rate, I was only trying to answer the first form. I think Scheme is a great language for learning the basics of the discipline of computer science (and Abelson and Sussman a wonder-filled textbook). I don't program in Scheme myself, and wouldn't suggest that anyone else do so (except for very particular cases). So what? You wouldn't try to saw wood with a hammer, either. Different languages are good for different things. Now, maybe we you'd like to revisit the earlier question, and ask whether it was meant as: What's a good language for an introduction to CS? What's a good language for learning to program? or What's a good language for getting a job? I'm not way interested in the third question. It seems to me open to debate whether the first two have the same answer. There's more to CS than programming. I've argued that Scheme, or some other relatively "pure" programming language gives a better foundation for coming to grips with some of those other things. Cheers, R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From narshe at gmail.com Tue Sep 14 15:28:15 2004 From: narshe at gmail.com (Josh Close) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] On-line C Manuals? In-Reply-To: <16711.18960.457122.743902@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <914f813c040913041954e755c2@mail.gmail.com> <34B5A1D6-059F-11D9-9DD7-000A95B35200@botwerks.org> <20040913162618.GB21755@wookimus.net> <914f813c0409131004742e4583@mail.gmail.com> <16709.60067.635123.756621@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <16710.11901.661001.458981@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <41465648.6090702@cpinternet.com> <16711.18960.457122.743902@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <4a0cafe2040914132822d4639a@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:44:16 -0500, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > >>>>> "Olwe" == Olwe Melwasul writes: > Different languages are good for different things. > > Now, maybe we you'd like to revisit the earlier question, and ask > whether it was meant as: > > What's a good language for an introduction to CS? > > What's a good language for learning to program? > > or > > What's a good language for getting a job? > > I'm not way interested in the third question. And you could divide this question up also for what type of job? There are certainly better languages for web development than command line programs than gui programs than daemons, etc, etc, etc. -Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com Tue Sep 14 15:33:34 2004 From: there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com (Loren H. Burlingame) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] no more gmail invites! just go to... In-Reply-To: <20040914182151.GA3321@aleph-one> References: <20040914182151.GA3321@aleph-one> Message-ID: oh woops, disregard my previous post, heh, guess I should read the first post in a thread before replying. (looks like we have a goon in our midst) On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:21:51 -0500, Dan Drake wrote: > http://isnoop.net/gmailomatic.php > > It's a gmail-invite spooler. Everyone with available invites sends them > there, and if you want one you can get it from them. I have a bunch > right now, and I'll send them there. > > So, please, no more Gmail-invite threads! Let's just argue about C and > Lisp and Perl... > > Dan > > -- > Ceci n'est pas une .signature. > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > -- Loren H. Burlingame GPG Key ID: 0x3EA9CF8F "Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes." -William Shatner (a.k.a. Buck Murdock) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com Tue Sep 14 15:31:56 2004 From: there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com (Loren H. Burlingame) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] no more gmail invites! just go to... In-Reply-To: <41474174.1070702@redconcepts.net> References: <20040914182151.GA3321@aleph-one> <2c6699da04091411499f8eb2@mail.gmail.com> <41474174.1070702@redconcepts.net> Message-ID: http://isnoop.net/gmailomatic.php On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:07:32 -0500, Munir Nassar wrote: > Brian Wall wrote: > > On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:21:51 -0500, Dan Drake wrote: > > > > > >>So, please, no more Gmail-invite threads! Let's just argue about C and > >>Lisp and Perl... > > > > > > So if I wanted to build a Gmail invite queueing system, should I use > > Lisp, Perl, or C? :-) > > whatever you use, make sure you use gmailfs to store database. > -- > Munir Nassar > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > -- Loren H. Burlingame GPG Key ID: 0x3EA9CF8F "Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes." -William Shatner (a.k.a. Buck Murdock) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ben_b at ppdonline.com Tue Sep 14 16:06:10 2004 From: ben_b at ppdonline.com (Ben Bargabus) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Verify senders email addy? Message-ID: <41475D42.5B60B36A@ppdonline.com> Hi, Is there a way (or program/script I can run) to verify that incoming messages come from valid email addys and bounce those that don't? I know that the from header can easily be forged but I at least want to verify that the forged header is a legit user name on that server. Just looking for another way to cut down on sp@m here. By the way, I run sendmail and procmail if that matters. Ben. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Tue Sep 14 16:44:05 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Verify senders email addy? In-Reply-To: <41475D42.5B60B36A@ppdonline.com> References: <41475D42.5B60B36A@ppdonline.com> Message-ID: <914f813c0409141444558d6a5@mail.gmail.com> VRFY is part of SMTP, but many disable this on their server, as it allows enumeration of usernames on the system (useful for bruteforce attacks.) Here, I would surmise that SPF is your only real option for doing anything like this. Perhaps I'm wrong though... On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 16:06:10 -0500, Ben Bargabus wrote: > Hi, > Is there a way (or program/script I can run) to verify that incoming > messages come from valid email addys and bounce those that don't? I > know that the from header can easily be forged but I at least want to > verify that the forged header is a legit user name on that server. Just > looking for another way to cut down on sp@m here. By the way, I run > sendmail and procmail if that matters. > Ben. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Tue Sep 14 16:45:21 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Verify senders email addy? In-Reply-To: <41475D42.5B60B36A@ppdonline.com> Message-ID: IIRC, there are packages to do this. The trick is, to do it right, it should to be done during the SMTP transaction. It should reject the mail during the MAIL FROM or RCPT TO; not accept it, check it later, and then bounce it. Also, there (at least at one time) was a heated debate over whether you should return a 4XX or 5XX. If Dieman is on this list, I believe there's an ISP in MN that's doing this, and he may be able to provide some insight on how it works for them. Other issues include: Depending on how you're rejecting the mail, the sending side may fall back to your backup MXes. Which will irritate the hell out of your ISP (smirk) or whoever is providing backup MX for you. Those will sit in their queue for the full 5 days, and then probably double-bounce to your postmaster address. Exchange less than 2003 does not do mailbox lookup and alias expansion during RCPT TO - Exchange just accepts anything at it's local domains, and will bounce user unknown later. So there's no way to get a user unknown out of an exchange server during the transaction. Basically, if a spammer does forge a domain hosted by exchange, you won't get the user unknown back, even if it's not a valid address. False negatives. Same can be said for large mailhosts that queue first and forward later. What is a "valid email addy"? Are you bouncing on just user unknown, or would you bounce things like "mailbox full" (could be legit or could be a spammers box full of complaints) What about mail servers that you can't connect to right now (DNS, transient net problems, silly MX tricks, etc) If you do large mail volume, your SMTP transactions will build up quickly. Each message you get now adds a connection back to a server and the corresponding SMTP dialog. If you get a lot of spam simultaneously, all sourced from the same domain, if the domain's SMTP server is slow to respond, your MTA's "brakes" will kick in and start limiting connections (or just run away and let the box crash...) All those SMTP sessions will build waiting for responses from the remote site. Many spams come from legitimate addresses, or addresses that can't be verified (ala Exchange, or large mail hosts that queue and forward). But this is all academic. When I investigated it, it looked to me like there were too many "what if's", grey areas, and special cases to be accounted for, versus the amount of mail that would've been blocked. But this may be a workable solution in your situation, depending on your mail volume, business or personal, what kinds of legit e-mail you get, who you are providing mail service to, etc. On Tue, 14 Sep 2004, Ben Bargabus wrote: > Hi, > Is there a way (or program/script I can run) to verify that incoming > messages come from valid email addys and bounce those that don't? I > know that the from header can easily be forged but I at least want to > verify that the forged header is a legit user name on that server. Just > looking for another way to cut down on sp@m here. By the way, I run > sendmail and procmail if that matters. > Ben. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Tue Sep 14 17:45:25 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Verify senders email addy? In-Reply-To: <41475D42.5B60B36A@ppdonline.com> References: <41475D42.5B60B36A@ppdonline.com> Message-ID: <20040914224525.GE4130@wookimus.net> Ben Bargabus wrote: > Is there a way (or program/script I can run) to verify that incoming > messages come from valid email addys and bounce those that don't? I > know that the from header can easily be forged but I at least want to > verify that the forged header is a legit user name on that server. > Just looking for another way to cut down on sp@m here. By the way, I > run sendmail and procmail if that matters. Ben. Define valid email address... RFC822 valid? Are you asking to use VRFY on an SMTP server? You could write up a python or perl script to submit VRFY requests for the email in question. That will involve an MX lookup for the mail host. Remember, you can only really use VRFY on primary mail hosts rather than the backup MX hosts (which simply spool stuff). http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.4/lib/module-smtplib.html http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.4/lib/module-email.html Don't exactly know how to get the DNS record just yet. You might be able to rip something from Twisted or pynms.sf.net. You could run 'dig host.domain.tld MX' and parse the output for the primary as well. -- Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From electrum at gmail.com Tue Sep 14 20:21:53 2004 From: electrum at gmail.com (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Verify senders email addy? In-Reply-To: <914f813c0409141444558d6a5@mail.gmail.com> References: <41475D42.5B60B36A@ppdonline.com> <914f813c0409141444558d6a5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <853e1ecc040914182123b18c62@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 16:44:05 -0500, John T. Hoffoss wrote: > VRFY is part of SMTP, but many disable this on their server I have NEVER seen an active server that supports VRFY. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cschumann at twp-llc.com Tue Sep 14 20:45:10 2004 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Want to try an X2* or X3* In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200409150145.i8F1jJch004565@alpha.twp-llc.com> Hello all, My wife's sister wants a lighter laptop, and since I will likely have to support the machine, I want her to buy a ThinkPad. Unfortunately, there aren't stores around here that have an X31 to play with, so I thought I'd ask you folks if any of you with an X2* or X3* would be willing to show and tell your machine while we (myself, my wife and her sister) pay for your meal and a libation. Champs and Old Chicago around here have hotspots, but we're open to other places too. Many thanks for your consideration, Chris _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From phptom at wordesign.net Tue Sep 14 21:06:05 2004 From: phptom at wordesign.net (TOm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Open GroupWare In-Reply-To: <16681.10046.45703.167971@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: also, eGroupWare is an enhanced version (i think) of phpGroupWare. egroupware.org. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From electrum at gmail.com Tue Sep 14 21:10:32 2004 From: electrum at gmail.com (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Want to try an X2* or X3* In-Reply-To: <200409150145.i8F1jJch004565@alpha.twp-llc.com> References: <200409150145.i8F1jJch004565@alpha.twp-llc.com> Message-ID: <853e1ecc04091419101fd11fb7@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 20:45:10 -0500, Chris Schumann wrote: > My wife's sister wants a lighter laptop, and since I will likely have to > support the machine, I want her to buy a ThinkPad. I suggest trying out an iBook or a PowerBook. They are excellent machines and ship with (arguably) the best UNIX OS ever. They run Linux just fine, too. I love my PowerBook and haven't found a laptop that I like better. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From baz at winternet.com Wed Sep 15 05:01:08 2004 From: baz at winternet.com (Bryan Zimmer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Verify senders email addy? References: <41475D42.5B60B36A@ppdonline.com><914f813c0409141444558d6a5@mail.gmail.com> <853e1ecc040914182123b18c62@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <028701c49b0a$efbd10e0$04000100@baztech.com> I haven't run a serious mail server for a while, but during the SMTP exchange, doesn't the receiving MTA host validate the IP address of the sender? And doesn't that show up in the envelope header? For example: EHLO localhost.localdomain 250-mailhost.yourdomain.com Hello realname.spam.com [ 192.168.0.9 ], accepting invalid domain name This could be one way to check, write a script that does a reverse IP lookup to see if the supplied name during the EHLO or HELO exchange matches the given name. I'm also pretty sure that there is an m4 configuration setting in the sendmail.mc file that disallows all "invalid" domain names. BAZ BRYAN ZIMMER ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Phillips" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 8:21 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Verify senders email addy? > On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 16:44:05 -0500, John T. Hoffoss > wrote: >> VRFY is part of SMTP, but many disable this on their server > > I have NEVER seen an active server that supports VRFY. > > -- > David Phillips > http://david.acz.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Wed Sep 15 05:52:09 2004 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] no more gmail invites! just go to... In-Reply-To: <2c6699da04091411499f8eb2@mail.gmail.com> References: <20040914182151.GA3321@aleph-one> <2c6699da04091411499f8eb2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040915055209.00003915@schubert> On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:49:37 -0500 Brian Wall wrote: > On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:21:51 -0500, Dan Drake > wrote: > > > So, please, no more Gmail-invite threads! Let's just argue about C > > and Lisp and Perl... > > So if I wanted to build a Gmail invite queueing system, should I use > Lisp, Perl, or C? :-) VB :O Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Sep 15 08:14:58 2004 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] no more gmail invites! just go to... In-Reply-To: <20040915055209.00003915@schubert> References: <20040914182151.GA3321@aleph-one> <2c6699da04091411499f8eb2@mail.gmail.com> <20040915055209.00003915@schubert> Message-ID: <41484052.8070407@visi.com> COBOL :oD Sam. Josh Trutwin wrote: >On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:49:37 -0500 >Brian Wall wrote: > > > >>On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:21:51 -0500, Dan Drake >>wrote: >> >> >> >>>So, please, no more Gmail-invite threads! Let's just argue about C >>>and Lisp and Perl... >>> >>> >>So if I wanted to build a Gmail invite queueing system, should I use >>Lisp, Perl, or C? :-) >> >> > >VB :O > >Josh > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Wed Sep 15 07:41:31 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Verify senders email addy? In-Reply-To: <914f813c0409141444558d6a5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > VRFY is part of SMTP, but many disable this on their server, as it > allows enumeration of usernames on the system (useful for bruteforce > attacks.) Here, I would surmise that SPF is your only real option for > doing anything like this. > There's an on-going thread on inet-access about implementing SPF. Interesting to see the different opinions and analyses (right and wrong) about the system. Anyone who's thinking about publishing or querying for SPF records should check it out (http://inet-access.net/pipermail/list/) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From narshe at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 08:43:51 2004 From: narshe at gmail.com (Josh Close) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Verify senders email addy? In-Reply-To: <20040914224525.GE4130@wookimus.net> References: <41475D42.5B60B36A@ppdonline.com> <20040914224525.GE4130@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <4a0cafe2040915064371257986@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 17:45:25 -0500, Chad Walstrom wrote: > Ben Bargabus wrote: > > Is there a way (or program/script I can run) to verify that incoming > > messages come from valid email addys and bounce those that don't? I > > know that the from header can easily be forged but I at least want to > > verify that the forged header is a legit user name on that server. > > Just looking for another way to cut down on sp@m here. By the way, I > > run sendmail and procmail if that matters. Ben. > > Define valid email address... RFC822 valid? Are you asking to use VRFY > on an SMTP server? You could write up a python or perl script to submit > VRFY requests for the email in question. That will involve an MX lookup > for the mail host. Remember, you can only really use VRFY on primary > mail hosts rather than the backup MX hosts (which simply spool stuff). > > http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.4/lib/module-smtplib.html > http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.4/lib/module-email.html > > Don't exactly know how to get the DNS record just yet. You might be > able to rip something from Twisted or pynms.sf.net. You could run 'dig > host.domain.tld MX' and parse the output for the primary as well. You can use adns-python for this. It works well, and is very fast. http://dustman.net/andy/python/adns-python The adns module provides an interface to the GNU adns asynchronous DNS resolver library. Asynchronous is always the way to go with networking :) -Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kc0iog at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 08:47:12 2004 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] no more gmail invites! just go to... In-Reply-To: <41484052.8070407@visi.com> References: <20040914182151.GA3321@aleph-one> <2c6699da04091411499f8eb2@mail.gmail.com> <20040915055209.00003915@schubert> <41484052.8070407@visi.com> Message-ID: <2c6699da04091506476885584a@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 07:14:58 -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > COBOL :oD I have decided on using PL/1, thanks! -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From markdeb.browne at comcast.net Wed Sep 15 09:03:52 2004 From: markdeb.browne at comcast.net (Mark Browne) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] no more gmail invites! just go to... In-Reply-To: <2c6699da04091506476885584a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hmmmp! Pups. REAL men hand code in binary on paper coding forms -- No namby-pamby macros or assemblers! Then you finish the job by burning your program directly into ROM and install it on the logic board. Mark Browne -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Brian Wall Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 7:47 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] no more gmail invites! just go to... On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 07:14:58 -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > COBOL :oD I have decided on using PL/1, thanks! -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From electrum at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 09:41:41 2004 From: electrum at gmail.com (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Verify senders email addy? In-Reply-To: <028701c49b0a$efbd10e0$04000100@baztech.com> References: <41475D42.5B60B36A@ppdonline.com> <914f813c0409141444558d6a5@mail.gmail.com> <853e1ecc040914182123b18c62@mail.gmail.com> <028701c49b0a$efbd10e0$04000100@baztech.com> Message-ID: <853e1ecc04091507416255a70e@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 05:01:08 -0500, Bryan Zimmer wrote: > I haven't run a serious mail server for a while, but during the SMTP > exchange, doesn't the receiving MTA host validate the IP address of the > sender? http://homepages.tesco.net/~J.deBoynePollard/FGA/smtp-avoid-helo.html -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Sep 15 09:49:17 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Verify senders email addy? In-Reply-To: <4a0cafe2040915064371257986@mail.gmail.com> References: <41475D42.5B60B36A@ppdonline.com> <20040914224525.GE4130@wookimus.net> <4a0cafe2040915064371257986@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040915144917.GD17503@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Wed Sep 15 09:33:21 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] no more gmail invites! just go to... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Then you finish the job by burning your program directly into ROM and > install it on the logic board. Luxury. ROM is for sissies. Real men design a chip (by hand of course) to execute their program, and fab it in their basement. They build their own DC power supply, make some capacitors from tin foil and old clothing, and mine their own quartz for timing. Interfaces? A real programmer's chip doesn't need to interface with anything else - it does everything, all in it's 40-pin SIPP package...that a real man builds himself. Then he reads the paper in octal, eats some nails, and laughs at nancy-boys like Mark Browne making their cute little ROMs. Kids. (sincere apologies to women, Mark, and just about everyone else) This thread reminds me of the "Real Programmers" parody of "Real Men Don't Eat Quiche". Funny stuff. Adam (Who's "old man" did mainboard design for Unisys. Before they had employee workstations. Literally had to bang two rocks together to make 1's. Up hill, both ways.) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 10:06:18 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Verify senders email addy? In-Reply-To: <853e1ecc040914182123b18c62@mail.gmail.com> References: <41475D42.5B60B36A@ppdonline.com> <914f813c0409141444558d6a5@mail.gmail.com> <853e1ecc040914182123b18c62@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <914f813c04091508067c6a6b7b@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 20:21:53 -0500, David Phillips wrote: > On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 16:44:05 -0500, John T. Hoffoss > wrote: > > VRFY is part of SMTP, but many disable this on their server > > I have NEVER seen an active server that supports VRFY. I'd say one in five of my clients support it. The last client I tested supported it, actually. They don't always take heed to what we say in our reports. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Wed Sep 15 10:09:32 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] no more gmail invites! just go to... In-Reply-To: References: <2c6699da04091506476885584a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <16712.23340.138181.198482@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Mark" == Mark Browne writes: Mark> Hmmmp! Mark> Pups. Mark> REAL men hand code in binary on paper coding forms -- No Mark> namby-pamby macros or assemblers! Oh. YOU had BINARY. WE only had zeros! [[I think that's stolen from Dilbert...]] _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Sep 15 10:11:56 2004 From: smac at visi.com (smac@visi.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] no more gmail invites! just go to... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1095261116.41485bbcde4e2@my.visi.com> But before you burn it you must keypunch it, pass the deck of cards through the hole in the wall and hope they don't get dropped. (put a $20 on the top of the deck and it gets run real fast!) Then you can burn it! Sam. Quoting Mark Browne : > Hmmmp! > > Pups. > > REAL men hand code in binary on paper coding forms -- No namby-pamby macros > or assemblers! > > Then you finish the job by burning your program directly into ROM and > install it on the logic board. > > Mark Browne > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Brian Wall > Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 7:47 AM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] no more gmail invites! just go to... > > On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 07:14:58 -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > COBOL :oD > > I have decided on using PL/1, thanks! > > -Brian > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 10:04:58 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] no more gmail invites! just go to... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <914f813c04091508045e94a154@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 09:33:21 -0500 (CDT), Adam Maloney wrote: > Adam > (Who's "old man" did mainboard design for Unisys. Before they had > employee workstations. Literally had to bang two rocks together to make > 1's. Up hill, both ways.) I've seen his work. And replicated it using nothing but construction paper during recess in Preschool. Not up hill though, I wasn't allowed to cross the street. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Wed Sep 15 10:24:31 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Verify senders email addy? In-Reply-To: <914f813c04091508067c6a6b7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > > I have NEVER seen an active server that supports VRFY. > > I'd say one in five of my clients support it. The last client I tested > supported it, actually. IIRC, it wasn't off by default in Sendmail until around 8.9 or 8.10. O PrivacyOptions=goaway O PrivacyOptions=noexpn,novrfy _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drue at therub.org Wed Sep 15 10:53:47 2004 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Verify senders email addy? In-Reply-To: References: <914f813c04091508067c6a6b7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040915155347.GJ84634@therub.org> On Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 10:24:31AM -0500, Adam Maloney wrote: > > > I have NEVER seen an active server that supports VRFY. > > > > I'd say one in five of my clients support it. The last client I > > tested supported it, actually. > > IIRC, it wasn't off by default in Sendmail until around 8.9 or 8.10. > I wasn't aware of this, but it looks like it is enabled by default in postfix - but rate limited, and implemented a bit differently to prevent abuse, such as by not expanding aliases (at least, experimentally this holds true). I found a good thread here: http://tinyurl.com/5zr3v [google groups] dan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 10:55:34 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Verify senders email addy? In-Reply-To: References: <914f813c04091508067c6a6b7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <914f813c04091508556972172d@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:24:31 -0500 (CDT), Adam Maloney wrote: > > > I have NEVER seen an active server that supports VRFY. > > > > I'd say one in five of my clients support it. The last client I tested > > supported it, actually. > > IIRC, it wasn't off by default in Sendmail until around 8.9 or 8.10. > > O PrivacyOptions=goaway > O PrivacyOptions=noexpn,novrfy I don't believe it's off by default in MS Exchange, either, which is where many of my clients have this vulnerability. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jeremy at rosengren.org Wed Sep 15 11:27:08 2004 From: jeremy at rosengren.org (Jeremy A. Rosengren) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Verify senders email addy? In-Reply-To: <853e1ecc04091507416255a70e@mail.gmail.com> References: <41475D42.5B60B36A@ppdonline.com> <914f813c0409141444558d6a5@mail.gmail.com> <853e1ecc040914182123b18c62@mail.gmail.com> <028701c49b0a$efbd10e0$04000100@baztech.com> <853e1ecc04091507416255a70e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <41486D5C.9030406@rosengren.org> David Phillips wrote: > On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 05:01:08 -0500, Bryan Zimmer wrote: > >>I haven't run a serious mail server for a while, but during the SMTP >>exchange, doesn't the receiving MTA host validate the IP address of the >>sender? > > > http://homepages.tesco.net/~J.deBoynePollard/FGA/smtp-avoid-helo.html > Theory is all well and good, and often times these pages you link to have good theories. However, in practice HELO/EHLO restrictions are a good thing, in my opinion, because they work. On my home mail server, I've never had a problem with anybody not being able to send anybody in my house valid email because of HELO restrictions. On a smallish anti-spam relay server that processes mail for 4-5 small businesses, I reject over 2,000 potential spam messages every day. In the year or so the server's been running, I've not yet had a report valid mail not getting through because of it. I could either let all that crap in and then process it, or I could just assume that it's all junk and not let it in in the first place. So far, not letting it in has been ideal. -- jeremy _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.meier at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 12:52:18 2004 From: john.meier at gmail.com (meierjo) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: top 10 ISPs? Message-ID: <65293fcc04091510523a00c440@mail.gmail.com> I have to do some website/chat testing with popular Dial up ISPs - like AOL, netzero etc. This is just testing to see if a web enabled live chat system is working as expected. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out what would be say the top 10 ISPs available today: AOL earthlink netzero Microsoft (do they have a ISP deal?) Compuware (???) ?? ?? any others that are popular out there? thanks john _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jpschewe at mtu.net Wed Sep 15 13:06:57 2004 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mail address rewriting question Message-ID: <20040915180657.GC7073@mtu.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Wed Sep 15 13:24:50 2004 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: top 10 ISPs? In-Reply-To: <65293fcc04091510523a00c440@mail.gmail.com> References: <65293fcc04091510523a00c440@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <38815.12.47.38.130.1095272690.squirrel@12.47.38.130> How "global" do you need to go? Visi (owned by dsl.net) is a big local one, but dsl.net is at least nation wide. > I have to do some website/chat testing with popular Dial up ISPs - > like AOL, netzero etc. This is just testing to see if a web enabled > live chat system is working as expected. > > I'm scratching my head trying to figure out what would be say the top > 10 ISPs available today: > > AOL > earthlink > netzero > Microsoft (do they have a ISP deal?) > Compuware (???) > ?? > ?? > > any others that are popular out there? > thanks > john > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 13:35:08 2004 From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] no more gmail invites! just go to... In-Reply-To: <914f813c04091508045e94a154@mail.gmail.com> References: <914f813c04091508045e94a154@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32fd45370409151135443eb5d5@mail.gmail.com> Javascript! .NET! Java! /ducks _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Wed Sep 15 13:35:00 2004 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200409151835.i8FIZ0F28293@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: Want to Buy Subject: Looking for 100 Mbps Switch I'm looking for 1 or 2 8-16 port 10/100Mbps switches for a home network. Doesn't have to be anything fancy. I would like one to be rackmount if possible though. Please email josh@trutwins.homeip.net privately and we'll work out the details. Thanks! Seller Email address: josh at trutwins dot homeip dot net http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Wed Sep 15 13:39:19 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] multiple outgoing mail addresses Message-ID: <16712.35927.34092.209133@gargle.gargle.HOWL> My desktop machine slurps in emails from multiple different email addresses, and sends them out using postfix (with my ISP as a smart relay). What I would LIKE to do, is to choose the relay destination based on the From: header I put on my emails. That way mail from my personal real-time.com address would go out through mail.real-time.com, and mail from my work address would go through my work server. Unfortunately, AFAICT postfix allows for you to choose your relay based on the DESTINATION, but not based on the source. Anybody know how to end run this? I wonder if some abuse of the virtual hosts facility might handle this problem... Thanks, R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kc0iog at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 13:47:04 2004 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: top 10 ISPs? In-Reply-To: <38815.12.47.38.130.1095272690.squirrel@12.47.38.130> References: <65293fcc04091510523a00c440@mail.gmail.com> <38815.12.47.38.130.1095272690.squirrel@12.47.38.130> Message-ID: <2c6699da040915114779199a11@mail.gmail.com> > I have to do some website/chat testing with popular Dial up ISPs - > like AOL, netzero etc. This is just testing to see if a web enabled > live chat system is working as expected. Off the top of my head: AT&T MSN AOL Compuserv Prodigy (did they get bought out?) Qwest Earthlink USFamily PeoplePC Netzero There are more, but that's a start. -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Wed Sep 15 14:05:12 2004 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] multiple outgoing mail addresses In-Reply-To: <16712.35927.34092.209133@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16712.35927.34092.209133@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <17815.12.47.38.130.1095275112.squirrel@12.47.38.130> What about sendmail using smarthost relay? > > My desktop machine slurps in emails from multiple different email > addresses, and sends them out using postfix (with my ISP as a smart > relay). > > What I would LIKE to do, is to choose the relay destination based on > the From: header I put on my emails. That way mail from my personal > real-time.com address would go out through mail.real-time.com, and > mail from my work address would go through my work server. > > Unfortunately, AFAICT postfix allows for you to choose your relay > based on the DESTINATION, but not based on the source. Anybody know > how to end run this? > > I wonder if some abuse of the virtual hosts facility might handle this > problem... > > Thanks, > R > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From narshe at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 13:49:48 2004 From: narshe at gmail.com (Josh Close) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] no more gmail invites! just go to... In-Reply-To: <1095261116.41485bbcde4e2@my.visi.com> References: <1095261116.41485bbcde4e2@my.visi.com> Message-ID: <4a0cafe204091511495093b3a@mail.gmail.com> Fire.... what's that? On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:11:56 -0500, smac@visi.com wrote: > But before you burn it you must keypunch it, pass the deck of cards through the > hole in the wall and hope they don't get dropped. (put a $20 on the top of the > deck and it gets run real fast!) Then you can burn it! > > Sam. > > > > Quoting Mark Browne : > > > Hmmmp! > > > > Pups. > > > > REAL men hand code in binary on paper coding forms -- No namby-pamby macros > > or assemblers! > > > > Then you finish the job by burning your program directly into ROM and > > install it on the logic board. > > > > Mark Browne > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Brian Wall > > Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 7:47 AM > > To: TCLUG Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] no more gmail invites! just go to... > > > > On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 07:14:58 -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > COBOL :oD > > > > I have decided on using PL/1, thanks! > > > > -Brian > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Wed Sep 15 13:56:40 2004 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: top 10 ISPs? In-Reply-To: <2c6699da040915114779199a11@mail.gmail.com> References: <65293fcc04091510523a00c440@mail.gmail.com> <38815.12.47.38.130.1095272690.squirrel@12.47.38.130> <2c6699da040915114779199a11@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <41489068.7090104@tc-tech.com> Covad? > AT&T > MSN > AOL > Compuserv > Prodigy (did they get bought out?) > Qwest > Earthlink > USFamily > PeoplePC > Netzero _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik at ehanson.net Wed Sep 15 14:09:09 2004 From: erik at ehanson.net (Erik Hanson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: top 10 ISPs? In-Reply-To: <41489068.7090104@tc-tech.com> References: <65293fcc04091510523a00c440@mail.gmail.com> <38815.12.47.38.130.1095272690.squirrel@12.47.38.130> <2c6699da040915114779199a11@mail.gmail.com> <41489068.7090104@tc-tech.com> Message-ID: <41489355.3030702@ehanson.net> I *think* both Pridigy and Compuserv are now part of earthlink... -Erik Matt Murphy wrote: > > Covad? > >> AT&T >> MSN >> AOL >> Compuserv >> Prodigy (did they get bought out?) >> Qwest >> Earthlink >> USFamily >> PeoplePC >> Netzero > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Sep 15 14:10:59 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] multiple outgoing mail addresses In-Reply-To: <16712.35927.34092.209133@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16712.35927.34092.209133@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040915191059.GI17503@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andyzib at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 14:32:04 2004 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GNUPG on a Flash Drive Message-ID: OK security experts... ;) My situation is I have a USB Flash Drive Keyring thingy (Lexar JumpDrive) that goes with me just about everywhere now days. There are files there that I do not want anybody to be able to access in the event I loose the thing...so obviously my first thought was some sort of encryption. My thought is that I can put the GnuPG binaries for Windows (and maybe Linux, but all the Linux machines I use do have GnuPG installed...) on the flash drive, and keep the files I want protected in a zip file (Just about every PC out there supports Zip files, so that should work.) To get to my protected files, decrypt the zip file, modify files, rezip, then encrypt the zip file. So the GnuPG keys will have to be on the flash dive, and I'll have to use a strong password. Easy enough. My plan is to cut new GPG keys specifically for this purpose and not use my other key for the jump dirve. Obviously having the private key on the dive makes it easier to crack the encryption, but the data should still be reasonable secure from most computer users...right? :) So the question is, am I missing anything? Is this going to be as secure as I precive it to be? Does anyone have any other suggestions for protecting data on portable storage that does not involve installing software? (That's the real kicker there...heh.) Thanks. :) -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sk3tch at sk3tch.net Wed Sep 15 14:31:50 2004 From: sk3tch at sk3tch.net (sk3tch@sk3tch.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: top 10 ISPs? Message-ID: Top 10 in what regard? Size or quality or ?? I'd definitely put Internet Exposure (http://www.iexposure.com/) in the top 10. Local shop based out of Minneapolis...top-notch service. Size-wise they're small - but that is why you get great support! ________________________________ From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org on behalf of meierjo Sent: Wed 9/15/2004 12:52 PM To: tclug Subject: [TCLUG] OT: top 10 ISPs? I have to do some website/chat testing with popular Dial up ISPs - like AOL, netzero etc. This is just testing to see if a web enabled live chat system is working as expected. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out what would be say the top 10 ISPs available today: AOL earthlink netzero Microsoft (do they have a ISP deal?) Compuware (???) ?? ?? any others that are popular out there? thanks john _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sk3tch at sk3tch.net Wed Sep 15 14:35:01 2004 From: sk3tch at sk3tch.net (sk3tch@sk3tch.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: top 10 ISPs? Message-ID: Oops sorry...misread your post. Must go back to drinking coffee all day instead of just the AM. ;-) Glad I got the plug in for IExposure though...heh. ________________________________ From: sk3tch Sent: Wed 9/15/2004 2:31 PM To: meierjo; TCLUG Mailing List; tclug Subject: RE: [TCLUG] OT: top 10 ISPs? Top 10 in what regard? Size or quality or ?? I'd definitely put Internet Exposure (http://www.iexposure.com/) in the top 10. Local shop based out of Minneapolis...top-notch service. Size-wise they're small - but that is why you get great support! ________________________________ From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org on behalf of meierjo Sent: Wed 9/15/2004 12:52 PM To: tclug Subject: [TCLUG] OT: top 10 ISPs? I have to do some website/chat testing with popular Dial up ISPs - like AOL, netzero etc. This is just testing to see if a web enabled live chat system is working as expected. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out what would be say the top 10 ISPs available today: AOL earthlink netzero Microsoft (do they have a ISP deal?) Compuware (???) ?? ?? any others that are popular out there? thanks john _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dave.dash at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 13:21:32 2004 From: dave.dash at gmail.com (Dave Dash) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: References: <11191.12.47.38.130.1095110555.squirrel@12.47.38.130> Message-ID: <694fa1450409151121e4f3bfa@mail.gmail.com> Isn't Cat 6 available now? If it is why waste time with Cat 5, I thought 6 worked on old 10/100 networks too. On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:39:44 -0500, Chuck Cole wrote: > Harbor Freight Tool up in Columbia Heights is very inexpensive and local. I wouldn't order tools before looking there unless > seeking something very unusual. Check/get a catalog http://www.harborfreight.com They may not carry CAT5 but Menards has some > cheap CAT5 stuff. > > Chuck > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Garrett Krueger > > Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 4:23 PM > > To: TCLUG Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question > > > > > > If you're not in an immediate hurry, you might try an online tool source > > to save a few bucks. I've used "S&J's Great Deals" for purchases. > > They're prompt and reliable as well as being fairly good in price. > > > > >> On Mon, Sep 13, 2004 at 03:34:34PM -0500, Erik Anderson wrote: > > >> Yeah - I think I'm gonna bear down and just wire the thing...I just won > > >>an auction on ebay for a 100' fish tape, and I think I'm going to try > > >>and snag one of those 3' flexible drill bits. Does anyone know where > > >>one of those can be located? > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Wed Sep 15 15:09:24 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] multiple outgoing mail addresses In-Reply-To: <17815.12.47.38.130.1095275112.squirrel@12.47.38.130> References: <16712.35927.34092.209133@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <17815.12.47.38.130.1095275112.squirrel@12.47.38.130> Message-ID: <16712.41332.597427.267197@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Garrett" == Garrett Krueger writes: Garrett> What about sendmail using smarthost relay? I suppose that's feasible. I just gave up on sendmail a couple of years ago in favor of postfix, though, and I can't say that trying to recapture all that arcane knowledge is very appealing.... I don't mean to start a big argument about the merits of various MTAs. The merit to *me* of postfix is huge, because of the sunk investment. YMMV (that's Your Mileage MUST Vary!). R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Wed Sep 15 15:32:05 2004 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: <694fa1450409151121e4f3bfa@mail.gmail.com> References: <11191.12.47.38.130.1095110555.squirrel@12.47.38.130> <694fa1450409151121e4f3bfa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <30749.12.47.38.130.1095280325.squirrel@12.47.38.130> It is (available), and it does (work with older standards). It is also more expensive. > Isn't Cat 6 available now? If it is why waste time with Cat 5, I > thought 6 worked on old 10/100 networks too. > > > On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:39:44 -0500, Chuck Cole > wrote: >> Harbor Freight Tool up in Columbia Heights is very inexpensive and >> local. I wouldn't order tools before looking there unless >> seeking something very unusual. Check/get a catalog >> http://www.harborfreight.com They may not carry CAT5 but Menards has >> some >> cheap CAT5 stuff. >> >> Chuck >> >> >> >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org >> > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Garrett Krueger >> > Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 4:23 PM >> > To: TCLUG Mailing List >> > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question >> > >> > >> > If you're not in an immediate hurry, you might try an online tool >> source >> > to save a few bucks. I've used "S&J's Great Deals" for purchases. >> > They're prompt and reliable as well as being fairly good in price. >> > >> > >> On Mon, Sep 13, 2004 at 03:34:34PM -0500, Erik Anderson wrote: >> > >> Yeah - I think I'm gonna bear down and just wire the thing...I just >> won >> > >>an auction on ebay for a 100' fish tape, and I think I'm going to >> try >> > >>and snag one of those 3' flexible drill bits. Does anyone know >> where >> > >>one of those can be located? >> > > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >> tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Sep 15 15:26:02 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GNUPG on a Flash Drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040915202602.GJ17503@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com Wed Sep 15 10:36:30 2004 From: tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com (Robert D. De Mars) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Goofey clock issues in KDE Message-ID: <4148617E.1020301@b-o-b.homelinux.com> I am using KDE on a Slack-10.0 (Current) machine. The clock that KDE shows is set correctly, and in my timezone (CDT). All my apps that display time (e-mail, etc) all display UDT (GMT). For example, my KDE clock will show 15:00, but a new email will be shown as received at 20:00 (CDT is GMT-5). How do I go about configging so that all the app's I run also use CDT & not UDT/GMT time?? Many Thanks & Kind Regards, Robert De Mars, -- Lat. 45:09n Long. 93:18w http://b-o-b.homelinux.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Wed Sep 15 15:38:18 2004 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GNUPG on a Flash Drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040915203818.GA30022@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andyzib at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 15:54:57 2004 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GNUPG on a Flash Drive In-Reply-To: <20040915202602.GJ17503@wookimus.net> References: <20040915202602.GJ17503@wookimus.net> Message-ID: Thanks for the tips. After I sent this, I realized something...it doesn't really matter how much I encrypt it. The decrypted zip file needs to reside either on the computer's local drive or the flash drive at some point, and deleted files can be recovered. That's ok though...my intention is to keep anyone who happens to find the thing from browsing every file on the flash disk easily. I've already accepted that if they really really really want to view the data, there are mutiple ways to do so. As long as it's supporated on mutiple platforms and isn't as easy as plug in USB key, browse drive, open files. -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lists at gahlon.com Wed Sep 15 16:04:56 2004 From: lists at gahlon.com (Christopher A. Gahlon) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] multiple outgoing mail addresses In-Reply-To: <16712.35927.34092.209133@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16712.35927.34092.209133@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <200409151604.56872.lists@gahlon.com> See the comment on about line 95 of the transport file... # domain transport:nexthop # Mail for domain is delivered through transport to # nexthop. Try this: Edit /etc/postfix/transport some.net smtp:[smtp.smarthost.net] -- Christopher A. Gahlon There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those that understand binary and those that don't. On Wednesday 15 September 2004 13:39, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > My desktop machine slurps in emails from multiple different email > addresses, and sends them out using postfix (with my ISP as a smart > relay). > > What I would LIKE to do, is to choose the relay destination based > on the From: header I put on my emails. That way mail from my > personal real-time.com address would go out through > mail.real-time.com, and mail from my work address would go through > my work server. > > Unfortunately, AFAICT postfix allows for you to choose your relay > based on the DESTINATION, but not based on the source. Anybody > know how to end run this? > > I wonder if some abuse of the virtual hosts facility might handle > this problem... > > Thanks, > R > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: > http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test > http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 15:59:13 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GNUPG on a Flash Drive In-Reply-To: <20040915202602.GJ17503@wookimus.net> References: <20040915202602.GJ17503@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <914f813c04091513596a16ec6e@mail.gmail.com> Slightly OT... On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 14:32:04 -0500, Andrew Zbikowski wrote: > OK security experts... ;) > > My situation is I have a USB Flash Drive Keyring thingy (Lexar > JumpDrive) that goes with me just about everywhere now days. There are > files there that I do not want anybody to be able to access in the > event I loose the thing...so obviously my first thought was some sort > of encryption. On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 15:26:02 -0500, Chad Walstrom wrote: > You should be able to encrypt the zip/tarball file with the GNUPG > program with AES encryption and NOT use the key scheme. The NIX > commandline for such an encryption is: > > gpg -c --cipher-algo AES256 FILE > > That way you don't have to sacrifice security on account that zip's > encryption algorithm sucks. Just remember what the password is, which > you were going to have to do anyway. You could always use the built-in AES256 encryption software included with your JumpDrive, but it's Windows only. Oh yeah, and it stores an XOR'd hash of your set password ON THE FRIGGIN DRIVE... http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/09/14/1855232&threshold=2&tid=133&tid=93 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From extrinsik at earthlink.net Wed Sep 15 16:14:46 2004 From: extrinsik at earthlink.net (extrinsik) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: top 10 ISPs? In-Reply-To: <41489355.3030702@ehanson.net> References: <65293fcc04091510523a00c440@mail.gmail.com> <38815.12.47.38.130.1095272690.squirrel@12.47.38.130> <2c6699da040915114779199a11@mail.gmail.com> <41489068.7090104@tc-tech.com> <41489355.3030702@ehanson.net> Message-ID: <4148B0C6.6050008@earthlink.net> I don't know about prodigy, but AOL owns compuserv now, and earthlink owns mindspring. Todd Mueller Erik Hanson wrote: > I *think* both Pridigy and Compuserv are now part of earthlink... > > -Erik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 16:13:33 2004 From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: <30749.12.47.38.130.1095280325.squirrel@12.47.38.130> References: <11191.12.47.38.130.1095110555.squirrel@12.47.38.130> <694fa1450409151121e4f3bfa@mail.gmail.com> <30749.12.47.38.130.1095280325.squirrel@12.47.38.130> Message-ID: <32fd45370409151413648e5d85@mail.gmail.com> I do believe it's rated for Gigabit though, as well as CAT5e, if I recall correctly. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lists at gahlon.com Wed Sep 15 16:20:30 2004 From: lists at gahlon.com (Christopher A. Gahlon) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Goofey clock issues in KDE In-Reply-To: <4148617E.1020301@b-o-b.homelinux.com> References: <4148617E.1020301@b-o-b.homelinux.com> Message-ID: <200409151620.30276.lists@gahlon.com> Is Control Center -> System Administration -> Date & Time set to the correct timezone? Also, right clicking on the clock allows you to choose a timezone to display. Is the KDE clock set to "localtime"? On Wednesday 15 September 2004 10:36, Robert D. De Mars wrote: > I am using KDE on a Slack-10.0 (Current) machine. The clock > that KDE shows is set correctly, and in my timezone (CDT). > All my apps that display time (e-mail, etc) all display UDT > (GMT). For example, my KDE clock will show 15:00, but a new > email will be shown as received at 20:00 (CDT is GMT-5). > How do I go about configging so that all the app's I run > also use CDT & not UDT/GMT time?? > > Many Thanks & Kind Regards, > > Robert De Mars, -- Christopher A. Gahlon There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those that understand binary and those that don't. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Wed Sep 15 16:24:56 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Goofey clock issues in KDE In-Reply-To: <4148617E.1020301@b-o-b.homelinux.com>; from tclug@b-o-b.homelinux.com on Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 03:36:30PM +0000 References: <4148617E.1020301@b-o-b.homelinux.com> Message-ID: <20040915162456.A31481@thinkunix.net> Robert D. De Mars wrote: > I am using KDE on a Slack-10.0 (Current) machine. The clock > that KDE shows is set correctly, and in my timezone (CDT). > All my apps that display time (e-mail, etc) all display UDT > (GMT). For example, my KDE clock will show 15:00, but a new > email will be shown as received at 20:00 (CDT is GMT-5). > How do I go about configging so that all the app's I run > also use CDT & not UDT/GMT time?? Did you run timeconfig? You can re-run it by running pkgtool as root then selecting "timeconfig" to set your timezone and how your hardware clock stores time. Also have a look in /etc/hardwareclock to see what's set in there. If you're not dual booting /etc/hardwareclock should have "UTC" in it. If you are dual booting, it should have "localtime" in it. -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From thurianknight at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 16:39:21 2004 From: thurianknight at gmail.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: <32fd45370409151413648e5d85@mail.gmail.com> References: <11191.12.47.38.130.1095110555.squirrel@12.47.38.130> <694fa1450409151121e4f3bfa@mail.gmail.com> <30749.12.47.38.130.1095280325.squirrel@12.47.38.130> <32fd45370409151413648e5d85@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7bdea6e3040915143926a544ed@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 16:13:33 -0500, Keith Bachman wrote: > I do believe it's rated for Gigabit though, as well as CAT5e, if I > recall correctly. > Yes, Cat5e can do gigabit, but I think the distance you can run it on is quite a bit less than Cat6. That said, we used to have several switches and servers on 6' Cat5e patch cables, that ran at GB speed just fine. Cat6 was about 2x the price of Cat5e the last time I looked, but it shouldn't be too expensive to wire a house, unless you are on a really tight budget. -- Dave Sherman MCSA, MCSE, CCNA [Insert witty .sig here.] _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 16:42:12 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GNUPG on a Flash Drive In-Reply-To: References: <20040915202602.GJ17503@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <914f813c04091514426ac4e09b@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 15:54:57 -0500, Andrew Zbikowski wrote: > Thanks for the tips. After I sent this, I realized something...it > doesn't really matter how much I encrypt it. The decrypted zip file > needs to reside either on the computer's local drive or the flash > drive at some point, and deleted files can be recovered. > > That's ok though...my intention is to keep anyone who happens to find > the thing from browsing every file on the flash disk easily. I've > already accepted that if they really really really want to view the > data, there are mutiple ways to do so. As long as it's supporated on > mutiple platforms and isn't as easy as plug in USB key, browse drive, > open files. Include a disk-wipe utility, and rather than delete your unzipped files, wipe them. Then you just have to reboot to clear the memory and you should be golden. Except perhaps for temp space... _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Wed Sep 15 16:56:13 2004 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Home data wiring question In-Reply-To: <7bdea6e3040915143926a544ed@mail.gmail.com> References: <11191.12.47.38.130.1095110555.squirrel@12.47.38.130> <694fa1450409151121e4f3bfa@mail.gmail.com> <30749.12.47.38.130.1095280325.squirrel@12.47.38.130> <32fd45370409151413648e5d85@mail.gmail.com> <7bdea6e3040915143926a544ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <51532.12.47.38.130.1095285373.squirrel@12.47.38.130> Cat5e at standard maximum distances (e.g. 100 meters) is rated by the manufacturers for somewhere between 300-400 mbps maximum throughput; hence, the development of Cat6. > On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 16:13:33 -0500, Keith Bachman > wrote: >> I do believe it's rated for Gigabit though, as well as CAT5e, if I >> recall correctly. >> > > Yes, Cat5e can do gigabit, but I think the distance you can run it on > is quite a bit less than Cat6. That said, we used to have several > switches and servers on 6' Cat5e patch cables, that ran at GB speed > just fine. > > Cat6 was about 2x the price of Cat5e the last time I looked, but it > shouldn't be too expensive to wire a house, unless you are on a really > tight budget. > > -- > Dave Sherman > MCSA, MCSE, CCNA > [Insert witty .sig here.] > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Wed Sep 15 17:16:14 2004 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Database design problem Message-ID: Hey everyone, I figure I should probably get around to learning a little PHP. Having just started a jogging regimen, it occurs to me that a PHP/MySQL version of a fitness tracker would make a nice little project. (It's been done before, of course, but I think it would still be a nice project for me.) If anything comes of it, I plan to make it available on my school district's intranet for other staff to use. With that in mind, I've come up with the following basic requirements: * Multi-user capability. Should have the ability for many user accounts while maintaining some basic privacy for each user. * Log periodic fitness measures such as weight, blood pressure, % body fat, etc. The user would enter this information as often as he or she desires to create a record of weight loss, for example. * Workout records. Users should be able to enter information about their workouts. Should support multiple types of workouts including bike rides, runs/walks, swims, tennis matches, etc. Each workout type would have its own specific types of data. Runs, for example, might track distance, time, average heart rate (if the user has a heart rate monitor), and a note field. Lots more fields are possible. * Saved "routes." If a particular user runs or bikes the same route frequently, they could attach a workout's results (time, heart rate, etc.) to a particular "route" that would allow them to track their progress over time. I'm stuck on a particular step of the database design. I should point out that I'm not completely new to this. I built an event calendar application for my former school district using Zope and PostgreSQL. Here's the major question I've got: How do I allow for more workout types to be added and relate them to the existing tables? I can imagine having tables for users, daily_stats, workouts, and routes, but how would I integrate new workout types? I don't think adding fields to a general workout table would be the most elegant solution. Maybe I'm wrong. (It's happened before.) Does anyone have any thoughts on this? -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Wed Sep 15 17:36:48 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] multiple outgoing mail addresses In-Reply-To: <20040915191059.GI17503@wookimus.net> References: <16712.35927.34092.209133@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20040915191059.GI17503@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <16712.50176.267555.156162@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Chad" == Chad Walstrom writes: Chad> rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: >> What I would LIKE to do, is to choose the relay destination based on >> the From: header I put on my emails. Chad> This might help (found from google, of course): Chad> http://www.3d4x.de/swift/senderbased.html Thanks! You absolutely rule! I bow down in humility before your superior Googling! Best, R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Wed Sep 15 18:40:44 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Database design problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > How do I allow for more workout types to be added and relate them to the > existing tables? > > I can imagine having tables for users, daily_stats, workouts, and routes, > but how would I integrate new workout types? I don't think adding fields to > a general workout table would be the most elegant solution. Maybe I'm wrong. > (It's happened before.) Create a workout_types table? table workout_types name varchar(64) ... Then just reference the workout_types.name in whatever other tables you reference a workout type? 3rd normal form. yum. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jpschewe at mtu.net Wed Sep 15 20:02:05 2004 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] XP SP2 and Samba no work? In-Reply-To: <1094785439.572.4.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> References: <1094730176.27718.14.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> <1094785439.572.4.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Message-ID: <1095296524.13271.0.camel@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at cmulcahy.com Wed Sep 15 20:09:24 2004 From: tclug at cmulcahy.com (Chris) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Database design problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1095296964.30086.20.camel@gentoobox> On Wed, 2004-09-15 at 18:40, Adam Maloney wrote: > > How do I allow for more workout types to be added and relate them to the > > existing tables? > > > > I can imagine having tables for users, daily_stats, workouts, and routes, > > but how would I integrate new workout types? I don't think adding fields to > > a general workout table would be the most elegant solution. Maybe I'm wrong. > > (It's happened before.) > > Create a workout_types table? > > table workout_types > name varchar(64) > ... > > Then just reference the workout_types.name in whatever other tables you > reference a workout type? > > 3rd normal form. yum. > > Only problem then is that each workout_type will have different attributes to track. Distance isn't going to do too much for the jumprope workout_type. Number of hops won't work for the Bicycle. My best suggestion would be: create table workout_type ( wtID serial not null primary key, wtName varchar(25) not null, ); -- waOrder is a sort order field for display purposes create table workout_attribute ( waID serial not null primary key, waOrder integer not null, waName varchar(25) not null ); -- woPerson references another person table create table workout ( woID serial not null primary key, wtID integer not null, woPerson integer not null, woDate date ); create table join_workout_attribute ( jwaID serial not null primary key, waID integer not null, woID integer not null, jwaValue varchar(25) ); create unique index idxJWA_1 on join_workout_attribute(waID, woID); create view vw_Workout as select wtName, woPerson, woDate, jwaValue from workout_type wt, workout_attribute wa, workout wo, join_workout_attribute where wt.wtID = wo.wtID and jwa.wtID = wt.wtID and jwa.woID = wo.woID ; Of course, this only gives you varchar attributes. If you wanted to test your muscle with PostgreSQL, you could add an integer column and then create a rule to monitor to make sure you do not store 100 minutes into a "face_color" attribute that should be storing purple. Fun stuff! _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Wed Sep 15 20:53:05 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Database design problem In-Reply-To: <1095296964.30086.20.camel@gentoobox> Message-ID: > Only problem then is that each workout_type will have different > attributes to track. Distance isn't going to do too much for the > jumprope workout_type. Number of hops won't work for the Bicycle. > Ah, I didn't realize what was meant by workout_type. Now I see what the question was. > test your muscle with PostgreSQL, you could add an integer column and Pun? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Wed Sep 15 22:10:18 2004 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Switches Message-ID: <4149041A.5000600@comcast.net> Josh, I don't have any used switches, but why bother with used? I picked up a 16 port 10/100 Netgear switch from Compuplus for only $72 including shipping. Right now they have a $10 rebate to boot. I prefer the Netgear over Linksys, better price and steel case instead of plastic. http://www.compuplus.com/insidepage.php3?sid=2eh0w67yfk7bw1c&id=291&track=searchViewed -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Wed Sep 15 22:18:25 2004 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Database design problem In-Reply-To: <1095296964.30086.20.camel@gentoobox> References: <1095296964.30086.20.camel@gentoobox> Message-ID: <200409152218.25502.wilson@visi.com> On Wednesday 15 September 2004 08:09 pm, Chris wrote: > My best suggestion would be: > > create table workout_type ( > wtID serial not null primary key, > wtName varchar(25) not null, > ); > > -- waOrder is a sort order field for display purposes > create table workout_attribute ( > waID serial not null primary key, > waOrder integer not null, > waName varchar(25) not null > ); > > -- woPerson references another person table > create table workout ( > woID serial not null primary key, > wtID integer not null, > woPerson integer not null, > woDate date > ); > > create table join_workout_attribute ( > jwaID serial not null primary key, > waID integer not null, > woID integer not null, > jwaValue varchar(25) > ); This join_workout_attribute table is the biggest piece I was missing. I think I understand where you're going with this, but I'm not sure I understand how you would store the attributes that are supposed to go with a jogging workout, for example. Let's say for such a workout I want to store date, distance, elapsed time (in seconds, say), average heart rate, and workout notes. You're saying that those attributes would be entered into the workout_attribute table and joined to each workout using the join_workout_attribute table, right? So where would I store the information about the standard attributes that all jogging workouts contain? And how would I store the type of data to expect for each attribute? I don't see how that would work in the workout_attribute table. For example, average heart rate would be an integer and workout notes would be a text field. This is great info. I may not be expert at it yet, but I really enjoy the process of mapping real life data to these sorts of abstract relationships. -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Science teacher, Linux fan, Zope developer, Grad. student, Daddy mailto:wilson@visi.com | http://qwerk.org/ | public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at cmulcahy.com Wed Sep 15 22:51:42 2004 From: tclug at cmulcahy.com (Chris) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Database design problem In-Reply-To: <200409152218.25502.wilson@visi.com> References: <1095296964.30086.20.camel@gentoobox> <200409152218.25502.wilson@visi.com> Message-ID: <1095306702.30080.39.camel@gentoobox> On Wed, 2004-09-15 at 22:18, Tim Wilson wrote: > On Wednesday 15 September 2004 08:09 pm, Chris wrote: > > > My best suggestion would be: > > > > create table workout_type ( > > wtID serial not null primary key, > > wtName varchar(25) not null, > > ); > > > > -- waOrder is a sort order field for display purposes > > create table workout_attribute ( > > waID serial not null primary key, > > waOrder integer not null, > > waName varchar(25) not null > > ); > > > > -- woPerson references another person table > > create table workout ( > > woID serial not null primary key, > > wtID integer not null, > > woPerson integer not null, > > woDate date > > ); > > > > create table join_workout_attribute ( > > jwaID serial not null primary key, > > waID integer not null, > > woID integer not null, > > jwaValue varchar(25) > > ); > > This join_workout_attribute table is the biggest piece I was missing. I think > I understand where you're going with this, but I'm not sure I understand how > you would store the attributes that are supposed to go with a jogging > workout, for example. > > Let's say for such a workout I want to store date, distance, elapsed time (in > seconds, say), average heart rate, and workout notes. You're saying that > those attributes would be entered into the workout_attribute table and joined > to each workout using the join_workout_attribute table, right? > > So where would I store the information about the standard attributes that all > jogging workouts contain? And how would I store the type of data to expect > for each attribute? I don't see how that would work in the workout_attribute > table. For example, average heart rate would be an integer and workout notes > would be a text field. > > This is great info. I may not be expert at it yet, but I really enjoy the > process of mapping real life data to these sorts of abstract relationships. > > -Tim I see I goobered one part. alter table workout_attribute add wtID; insert into workout_type (wtName) values ('Walking'); insert into workout_type (wtName) values ('Jogging'); insert into workout_type (wtName) values ('Biking'); select * from workout_type; wtID wtName 1 Walking 2 Jogging 3 Biking insert into workout_attribute (wtID, waOrder, waName) values (1, 1, 'Distance'); insert into workout_attribute (wtID, waOrder, waName) values (1, 2, 'Speed'); insert into workout_attribute (wtID, waOrder, waName) values (2, 1, 'Distance'); insert into workout_attribute (wtID, waOrder, waName) values (2, 2, 'Speed'); insert into workout_attribute (wtID, waOrder, waName) values (2, 3, 'Steps'); select * from workout_attribute; waID wtID waOrder waName 1 1 1 Distance 2 1 2 Speed 3 2 1 Distance 4 2 2 Speed 5 2 3 Steps insert into workout (wtID, woPerson) values (1, 1); insert into workout (wtID, woPerson) values (2, 1); insert into join_workout_attribute (woID, waID, jwaValue) values (1, 1, '5 mi'); insert into join_workout_attribute (woID, waID, jwaValue) values (1, 2, '1.6 MPH'); insert into join_workout_attribute (woID, waID, jwaValue) values (2, 1, '2 mi'); insert into join_workout_attribute (woID, waID, jwaValue) values (2, 2, '1400'); You do have the problem of varchar/integer values. On the workout_attribute table, you can store another column which identifies what type of data you are storing, then in the join_workout_attribute table, you would have two value columns, one for integer, one for varchar. You could use PostgreSQL rules to make sure you don't accidentally stuff a value into the integer column when the attribute should be a varchar. I'll put together a much more useful demo in the morning. I have to get to bed! Good luck! This is very fun stuff. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mcnixon at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 23:15:51 2004 From: mcnixon at gmail.com (Mike Nixon) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Laptop Hard Drive Jumpers In-Reply-To: <1469cda2040910163569cd9e6b@mail.gmail.com> References: <414241DE.5080303@visi.com> <1469cda2040910163569cd9e6b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I ended up using a staple for a jumper, it was the first thing I could find that seemed to fit. Freezing the drive gave me about 3 minutes, but I needed more time, so I ended up sticking the drive between two ziplock bags with ice cubes and water. So far so good, been copying data off the drive for 15+ minutes. Mike Nixon On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:35:06 -0500, Thomas Johnson wrote: > the idea is that chilling a dying drive in the freezer will give you > some extra run time to dump data before it siezes up on you. > > > > > On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:07:58 -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > Freezer Trick? > > > > Sam. > > > > Mike Nixon wrote: > > > > >I'm trying to recover data off a few flaky laptop hard drives (with > > >one of those kits to connect the 2.5" drive to a 3.5" cable). > > >There is a jumper setting for slave or cable select, but I don't have > > >any jumpers that fit on these smaller drives. Any suggestions on > > >where I could pickup jumpers locally in Minneapolis? > > > > > >BTW, the freezer trick has been a big help here also. > > > > > >TIA, > > >Mike Nixon > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Thu Sep 16 03:28:53 2004 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Switches In-Reply-To: <4149041A.5000600@comcast.net> References: <4149041A.5000600@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20040916082853.GI2829@momentum.poptix.net> On Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 10:10:18PM -0500, Todd Young wrote: > Josh, > I don't have any used switches, but why bother with used? > > I picked up a 16 port 10/100 Netgear switch from Compuplus for only $72 > including shipping. Right now they have a $10 rebate to boot. Because a perfectly good used switch for $10-20 is better than a new one for $72, especially when the old one was headed for the dump. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Thu Sep 16 06:26:23 2004 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Database design problem In-Reply-To: <1095306702.30080.39.camel@gentoobox> Message-ID: On 9/15/04 10:51 PM, "Chris" wrote: > You do have the problem of varchar/integer values. On the > workout_attribute table, you can store another column which identifies > what type of data you are storing, then in the join_workout_attribute > table, you would have two value columns, one for integer, one for > varchar. You could use PostgreSQL rules to make sure you don't > accidentally stuff a value into the integer column when the attribute > should be a varchar. Chris, thanks again for the helpful information. One note: I am using MySQL for this project. I thought it would be good to get a little experience with that RDBMS. -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Thu Sep 16 08:26:44 2004 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Switches In-Reply-To: <20040916082853.GI2829@momentum.poptix.net> References: <4149041A.5000600@comcast.net> <20040916082853.GI2829@momentum.poptix.net> Message-ID: <20040916082644.00006401@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 03:28:53 -0500 "Matthew S. Hallacy" wrote: > On Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 10:10:18PM -0500, Todd Young wrote: > > Josh, > > I don't have any used switches, but why bother with used? > > > > I picked up a 16 port 10/100 Netgear switch from Compuplus for > > only $72 including shipping. Right now they have a $10 rebate to > > boot. > > Because a perfectly good used switch for $10-20 is better than a new > one for $72, especially when the old one was headed for the dump. Heh, all this talk is great but does anyone have one??? :) Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Thu Sep 16 09:57:54 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Database design problem In-Reply-To: References: <1095306702.30080.39.camel@gentoobox> Message-ID: <20040916145754.GB26851@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chris.mulcahy at gmail.com Thu Sep 16 10:42:00 2004 From: chris.mulcahy at gmail.com (Chris Mulcahy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Database design problem In-Reply-To: References: <1095306702.30080.39.camel@gentoobox> Message-ID: OK, here goes. BIG SPOILER WARNING!! -- MySQL dump 9.11 -- -- Host: localhost Database: test -- ------------------------------------------------------ -- Server version 4.0.21-nt -- -- Table structure for table `person` -- CREATE TABLE person ( peID int(10) unsigned NOT NULL auto_increment, peName varchar(25) NOT NULL default '', PRIMARY KEY (peID) ) TYPE=MyISAM; -- -- Table structure for table `workout_type` -- CREATE TABLE workout_type ( wtID int(10) unsigned NOT NULL auto_increment, wtDescription varchar(25) NOT NULL default '', PRIMARY KEY (wtID) ) TYPE=MyISAM; -- -- Table structure for table `workout_attributes` -- CREATE TABLE workout_attributes ( waID int(10) unsigned NOT NULL auto_increment, wt_wtID int(10) unsigned NOT NULL default '0', waOrder int(10) unsigned NOT NULL default '0', waAttribDesc varchar(25) NOT NULL default '', waAttribType char(1) NOT NULL default 'V', PRIMARY KEY (waID), UNIQUE KEY workout_attributes_uniqueness (wt_wtID,waOrder), KEY workout_attributes_FKIndex1 (wt_wtID) ) TYPE=MyISAM; -- -- Table structure for table `join_workout_attributes` -- CREATE TABLE join_workout_attributes ( wa_waID int(10) unsigned NOT NULL default '0', wo_woID int(10) unsigned NOT NULL default '0', wa_ValueVarchar varchar(50) default NULL, wa_ValueInt int(10) unsigned default NULL, PRIMARY KEY (wa_waID,wo_woID), KEY jwa_FK1 (wa_waID), KEY jwaFK2 (wo_woID) ) TYPE=MyISAM; -- -- Table structure for table `workout` -- CREATE TABLE workout ( woID int(10) unsigned NOT NULL auto_increment, wt_wtID int(10) unsigned NOT NULL default '0', pe_peID int(10) unsigned NOT NULL default '0', woName varchar(25) default NULL, woDate date default NULL, PRIMARY KEY (woID), KEY workout_FKIndex1 (pe_peID), KEY workout_FKIndex2 (wt_wtID) ) TYPE=MyISAM; -- -- Dumping data for table `workout_type` -- INSERT INTO workout_type VALUES (1,'Running'); INSERT INTO workout_type VALUES (2,'Jogging'); INSERT INTO workout_type VALUES (3,'Jumprope'); INSERT INTO workout_type VALUES (4,'Tae Kwon Do'); -- -- Dumping data for table `person` -- INSERT INTO person VALUES (1,'Chris'); INSERT INTO person VALUES (2,'Barny Dino'); -- -- Dumping data for table `join_workout_attributes` -- INSERT INTO join_workout_attributes VALUES (8,1,'',45); INSERT INTO join_workout_attributes VALUES (9,1,'',60); INSERT INTO join_workout_attributes VALUES (10,1,'Bruce Lee',0); INSERT INTO join_workout_attributes VALUES (4,2,'',3); INSERT INTO join_workout_attributes VALUES (5,2,'',8); INSERT INTO join_workout_attributes VALUES (6,2,'',50); INSERT INTO join_workout_attributes VALUES (7,2,'',45); -- -- Dumping data for table `workout` -- INSERT INTO workout VALUES (1,4,1,'Fun',NULL); INSERT INTO workout VALUES (2,2,1,'Not Fun',NULL); INSERT INTO workout VALUES (3,0,1,'Tuesday',NULL); -- -- Dumping data for table `workout_attributes` -- INSERT INTO workout_attributes VALUES (1,1,1,'Miles','I'); INSERT INTO workout_attributes VALUES (2,1,2,'Speed(MPH)','I'); INSERT INTO workout_attributes VALUES (3,1,3,'Route','V'); INSERT INTO workout_attributes VALUES (4,2,1,'Speed(MPH)','I'); INSERT INTO workout_attributes VALUES (5,2,2,'Miles','I'); INSERT INTO workout_attributes VALUES (6,2,3,'Heartrate','I'); INSERT INTO workout_attributes VALUES (7,2,4,'Minutes','I'); INSERT INTO workout_attributes VALUES (8,4,1,'Minutes','I'); INSERT INTO workout_attributes VALUES (9,4,2,'Heartrate','I'); INSERT INTO workout_attributes VALUES (10,4,3,'Sparring Partner','V'); -- OK, some fun now: SELECT p.peName, wo.woName, wt.wtDescription, wo.woDate, wa.waAttribDesc, wa.waAttribType, jwa.wa_ValueVarchar, jwa.wa_ValueInt FROM person p, workout wo, join_workout_attributes jwa, workout_attributes wa, workout_type wt WHERE wo.pe_peID=p.peID AND jwa.wo_woID=wo.woID and jwa.wa_waID=wa.waID and wo.wt_wtID = wt.wtID; order by p.peName, wo.woDate, wt.wtDescription, wa.waOrder; -- Chris Mulcahy _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From eric at lgthouse.com Thu Sep 16 10:56:51 2004 From: eric at lgthouse.com (Eric Peterson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hard drive scanning utilities? Message-ID: <63834.128.101.57.5.1095350211.squirrel@128.101.57.5> Hello, I'm sure we've all run scandisk and waited a day for it to return a summary of bad blocks on a 60 GB hard drive. Ouch! I'm sure we've all used fsck as well and are quite happy when a 200 GB disk takes only hours to check for errors on ext filesystem. Does a faster scanning utitlity exist for Windows partitions that can tell me if a hard drive is beginning to fail? Is it possible to run this utility from a linux boot disk or other boot disk? Cheers! Eric Peterson _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From michaelb at real-time.com Thu Sep 16 10:49:44 2004 From: michaelb at real-time.com (michaelb@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSH Proxy Message-ID: <1095349784.4149b618ce4bb@webmail.real-time.com> SSH connections to the server that houses our CVS repository are painfully slow. Once connected everything is fine. It's just the authentication part that takes forever. I have no idea why this is so, but I have to live with it day in and day out. Lately I've been wondering if there was something I could do to avoid reconnecting every time I perform a CVS command. One thought that came to mind is running a SSH proxy thingy on my local box that would remain connected to the CVS server and forward commands. I would then set of CVSROOT to point at localhost. When I executed CVS commands they would get executed on the remote CVS server. Another way to think of this is as a sshd daemon that runs on one machine but forwards everything to a different machine. Note that the -L forwarding option of ssh does not fulfill my needs because it forces me to reconnect/reauthenticate. Does anyone know of a such a SSH proxy thingy or a different solution to my problem? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Thu Sep 16 11:12:18 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hard drive scanning utilities? In-Reply-To: <63834.128.101.57.5.1095350211.squirrel@128.101.57.5> References: <63834.128.101.57.5.1095350211.squirrel@128.101.57.5> Message-ID: <20040916161218.GE26851@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erikerik at gmail.com Thu Sep 16 11:12:21 2004 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hard drive scanning utilities? In-Reply-To: <63834.128.101.57.5.1095350211.squirrel@128.101.57.5> References: <63834.128.101.57.5.1095350211.squirrel@128.101.57.5> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 10:56:51 -0500 (CDT), Eric Peterson wrote: > Does a faster scanning utitlity exist for Windows partitions that can tell > me if a hard drive is beginning to fail? Is it possible to run this > utility from a linux boot disk or other boot disk? You can boot from a Knoppix CD and using the smartmontools package....let me know if you need specifics on how to use the package. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Thu Sep 16 11:25:01 2004 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (James Kaufman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSH Proxy In-Reply-To: <1095349784.4149b618ce4bb@webmail.real-time.com> References: <1095349784.4149b618ce4bb@webmail.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20040916162501.GA21373@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 10:49:44AM -0500, michaelb@real-time.com wrote: > SSH connections to the server that houses our CVS repository are painfully > slow. Once connected everything is fine. It's just the authentication part > that takes forever. I have no idea why this is so, but I have to live with it > day in and day out. Lately I've been wondering if there was something I could > do to avoid reconnecting every time I perform a CVS command. One thought that > came to mind is running a SSH proxy thingy on my local box that would remain > connected to the CVS server and forward commands. I would then set of CVSROOT > to point at localhost. When I executed CVS commands they would get executed on > the remote CVS server. Another way to think of this is as a sshd daemon that > runs on one machine but forwards everything to a different machine. Note that > the -L forwarding option of ssh does not fulfill my needs because it forces me > to reconnect/reauthenticate. Does anyone know of a such a SSH proxy thingy or > a different solution to my problem? > How painfully slow? Have you tried connecting using the -v switch to ssh? It might help in showing you what point in the authentication process is slow. It could be as simple as providing the -4 switch to ssh on connect. That reduced connection time for me to our servers from 15 seconds to about two seconds. -- Jim Kaufman Linux Evangelist public key 0x6D802619 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Thu Sep 16 11:17:43 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hard drive scanning utilities? In-Reply-To: <63834.128.101.57.5.1095350211.squirrel@128.101.57.5>; from eric@lgthouse.com on Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 10:56:51AM -0500 References: <63834.128.101.57.5.1095350211.squirrel@128.101.57.5> Message-ID: <20040916111743.A24638@thinkunix.net> Eric Peterson wrote: > Hello, > > I'm sure we've all run scandisk and waited a day for it to return a > summary of bad blocks on a 60 GB hard drive. Ouch! > > I'm sure we've all used fsck as well and are quite happy when a 200 GB > disk takes only hours to check for errors on ext filesystem. > > Does a faster scanning utitlity exist for Windows partitions that can tell > me if a hard drive is beginning to fail? Is it possible to run this > utility from a linux boot disk or other boot disk? Have you tried your hard drive vendor's website (eg, Seagate, Maxtor, etc...)? Some have boot floppy utilities for this purpose. -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From michaelb at real-time.com Thu Sep 16 11:16:11 2004 From: michaelb at real-time.com (michaelb@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Database design problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1095351371.4149bc4bb9e83@webmail.real-time.com> Although the dynamically typed technique described by Chris will probably work just fine and I have used myself in the past, it has a some draw backs. - it's complex - selects with where clauses that involve more than one attribute will be slow - it doesn't play nice with 3rd party database tools The crux of the problem is that the data model essentially turns columns into rows. This is the same thing the database catalog does. So doing it again is reinventing the wheel. An alternative solution is to create tables on the fly as new work out types are defined by the user. This produces a conventional statically typed data model that doesn't have the problems above. CAVEAT: I've never been able to convince a DBA to give my application DDL rights, so I've never been able to put the idea into production. :( _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erikerik at gmail.com Thu Sep 16 11:35:27 2004 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hard drive scanning utilities? In-Reply-To: References: <63834.128.101.57.5.1095350211.squirrel@128.101.57.5> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 11:12:21 -0500, Erik Anderson wrote: > > You can boot from a Knoppix CD and using the smartmontools > package....let me know if you need specifics on how to use the > package. I should clarify a bit more about the smartmontools package...it will not do filesystem-level checking. The package is used to actually examine the hardware of the drive...seek times, error counts, drive temperatures, bad blocks, etc. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at joshwelch.com Thu Sep 16 12:03:32 2004 From: tclug at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSH Proxy In-Reply-To: <1095349784.4149b618ce4bb@webmail.real-time.com> References: <1095349784.4149b618ce4bb@webmail.real-time.com> Message-ID: <4149C764.70800@joshwelch.com> michaelb@real-time.com wrote: > SSH connections to the server that houses our CVS repository are painfully > slow. Once connected everything is fine. It's just the authentication part > that takes forever. I have no idea why this is so, but I have to live with it > day in and day out. Lately I've been wondering if there was something I could > do to avoid reconnecting every time I perform a CVS command. One thought that > came to mind is running a SSH proxy thingy on my local box that would remain > connected to the CVS server and forward commands. I would then set of CVSROOT > to point at localhost. When I executed CVS commands they would get executed on > the remote CVS server. Another way to think of this is as a sshd daemon that > runs on one machine but forwards everything to a different machine. Note that > the -L forwarding option of ssh does not fulfill my needs because it forces me > to reconnect/reauthenticate. Does anyone know of a such a SSH proxy thingy or > a different solution to my problem? > Regarding the SSH authentication issue, every instance I have seen of this type of issue is a result of having no reverse DNS set up, host tries to do reverse dns, waits until it fails, then proceeds with the authentication. Perhaps setting up some reverse DNS records or a host file on the SSH server would help? Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From eric at lgthouse.com Thu Sep 16 12:17:40 2004 From: eric at lgthouse.com (Eric Peterson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hard drive scanning utilities? In-Reply-To: <20040916111743.A24638@thinkunix.net> References: <63834.128.101.57.5.1095350211.squirrel@128.101.57.5> <20040916111743.A24638@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <3915.160.94.198.186.1095355060.squirrel@160.94.198.186> > Have you tried your hard drive vendor's website (eg, Seagate, Maxtor, > etc...)? Some have boot floppy utilities for this purpose. > -- > scot The ideal tool would work across the full spectrum of manufacturers. This would be nice in situations where hard drive brand is unknown for one reason or another. In fact, I've heard that Western Digitals diagnostic utility works this way, but I have not been able to verify that. I'll have to try the tools on the Knoppix disk to see how well they work. The physical state of the drive is more important in thiscase then the actual file structure. Thanks for the info. -Eric _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From alborchers at steinerpoint.com Thu Sep 16 12:19:00 2004 From: alborchers at steinerpoint.com (Al Borchers) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSH Proxy References: Message-ID: <4149CB04.6040505@steinerpoint.com> From: michaelb@real-time.com > Lately I've been wondering if there was something I could do to avoid reconnecting every time I perform a CVS command. If your CVS server is set up for pserver access, then you can do something like ssh -f -L2401:localhost:2401 cvs.server.com sleep 100000 which will set up an ssh tunnel to the CVS pserver port for a little over a day (100000 seconds). Export CVSROOT as :pserver:mycvslogin@localhost:/cvs_repository Then you can "cvs login" and run cvs commands without reconnecting for every command. -- Al _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From matt at omega.org Wed Sep 15 22:28:18 2004 From: matt at omega.org (Matthew Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Switches In-Reply-To: <4149041A.5000600@comcast.net> References: <4149041A.5000600@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1095305298.12348.204478109@webmail.messagingengine.com> MicroCenter in St. Louis Park has 16 port 10/100 swiches for around $55. This is before the rebates that are on them. ----- Original message ----- From: "Todd Young" To: josh@trutwins.homeip.net Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 22:10:18 -0500 Subject: [TCLUG] Switches Josh, I don't have any used switches, but why bother with used? I picked up a 16 port 10/100 Netgear switch from Compuplus for only $72 including shipping. Right now they have a $10 rebate to boot. I prefer the Netgear over Linksys, better price and steel case instead of plastic. http://www.compuplus.com/insidepage.php3?sid=2eh0w67yfk7bw1c&id=291&track=searchViewed -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Thu Sep 16 12:37:59 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSH Proxy In-Reply-To: <4149CB04.6040505@steinerpoint.com> References: <4149CB04.6040505@steinerpoint.com> Message-ID: <20040916173759.GI26851@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From todd at xnewbie.com Thu Sep 16 12:36:33 2004 From: todd at xnewbie.com (Todd) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Permissions Message-ID: <00cd01c49c13$bc5957e0$1f00a8c0@baker5> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Thu Sep 16 12:40:35 2004 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSH Proxy In-Reply-To: <1095349784.4149b618ce4bb@webmail.real-time.com> References: <1095349784.4149b618ce4bb@webmail.real-time.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Sep 2004, michaelb@real-time.com wrote: > SSH connections to the server that houses our CVS repository are painfully > slow. Once connected everything is fine. It's just the authentication part > that takes forever. Have you checked your DNS servers to make sure they resolve things successfully? Also, a 'ssh -v' should tell you what's going on when it's hanging up. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Thu Sep 16 12:56:30 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Permissions In-Reply-To: <00cd01c49c13$bc5957e0$1f00a8c0@baker5> References: <00cd01c49c13$bc5957e0$1f00a8c0@baker5> Message-ID: <20040916175630.GJ26851@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From todd at xnewbie.com Thu Sep 16 13:03:54 2004 From: todd at xnewbie.com (Todd) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Permissions References: <00cd01c49c13$bc5957e0$1f00a8c0@baker5> <20040916175630.GJ26851@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <00f901c49c17$8b03f610$1f00a8c0@baker5> This is my machine and I'm running redhat linux and I looked and it looks as if the web server is running as apache:apache, any ideas? Todd wrote: > what I'm trying to do is upload a file using php and once I've > uploaded the file change the permissions of the file to 755 but what > is happening is it's assigning the file to user nobody and group > nobody with a 600 permission level and I'm not sure how to change the > permissions on the user nobody so that I can change the file > permissions with php. You should be able to chmod the file to more useful permissions, but changing it to an executable permission is quite crazy. In any case, it's being assigned nobody:nobody because that is what you web server is running as. This is bad security, by the way. Your web server should have it's own user and group, such as www-data:www-data or httpd:httpd. What system is this being hosted on? Linux? Sun? Is this your machine or an ISP's? etc. -- Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Walstrom" To: Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Permissions > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Thu Sep 16 13:13:06 2004 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200409161813.i8GID6416772@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: HP4000M Switches I have 5 HP Procurve 4000M switches that have recently been replaced. The only reason that I have brought them out of production is that I needed switches that provided Power over Ethernet for our new Cisco phone system. Overview - High-speed⁄media- flexible uplinks including Gigabit-SX, LX, and 1000Base-T - Quality of Service through Class of Service (CoS) prioritization features - Optional redundant power supply - High performance Gigabit stacking Features - Stacking capability: single IP address management for a virtual stack of up to 16 switches including the 1600m, 2400m, 2424m, 2512, 2524, 4000m, and 8000m - RMON and extended RMON: provide advanced monitoring capabilities - Port monitoring: allows you to monitor traffic using a switched port so you can view several ports at one time with a network analyzer - Web interface: allows you to configure the switch from any Web browser on the network - Protocol filtering: provides traffic control - VLAN support and tagging: supports up to 30 port-based VLANs and dynamic configuration of 802.1Q VLAN tagging providing security between workgroups - Class of Service (CoS) tagging: sets 802.1p priority field using policy-based management - IP multicast (IGMP): prevents flooding of IP multicast traffic - Port security: prevents unauthorized access using MAC address lockdown - Switch meshing: delivers high availability with high performance - Hot swappable modules: allow you to add or swap modules without interrupting the network - Optional redundant power supply: provides uninterrupted power - Spanning Tree Protocol: provides redundant links while preventing network loops - Port trunking: for higher switch-to-switch and switch-to-server throughput and link-level redundancy - Cisco Fast EtherChannel®: provides higher throughput to other devices that support FEC - Automatic Broadcast Control (ABC): minimizes IP and IPX broadcast traffic throughout the network - TACACS+: eases administration of switch management security by using a password authentication server - Cisco Discovery Protocol (CDP): enables real-time mapping of end nodes to switch ports Ports - 40 or 48 RJ-45 10⁄100Base-TX ports (IEEE 802.3 Type 10Base-T; 802.3u Type 100Base-TX) - 1 Gig Copper module (RJ45 100/1000 Base-TX) - 3 or 4 open module slots - one RS-232C DB-9 console port Performance - Latency: <10 µs (LIFO) - Throughput: 4.67 million pps (64-byte packets) - Backplane speed: 3.8 Gbps - Address table size: 10,000 entries 3 switches have 48 copper ethernet ports 2 switches have 40 copper ethernet ports $500 each. Questions please contact me off the list. Jimstreit@nortlans.com or 952-897-7791 Seller Email address: jimstreit at northlans dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From d9387120 at sihope.com Thu Sep 16 14:01:32 2004 From: d9387120 at sihope.com (dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] knoppix cd Message-ID: <001c01c49c1f$980462c0$0300a8c0@danetech330ba4> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erikerik at gmail.com Thu Sep 16 14:04:29 2004 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] knoppix cd In-Reply-To: <001c01c49c1f$980462c0$0300a8c0@danetech330ba4> References: <001c01c49c1f$980462c0$0300a8c0@danetech330ba4> Message-ID: Google, my friend. http://www.knoppix.org/ It's a livecd linux distro. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Thu Sep 16 14:05:25 2004 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] knoppix cd Message-ID: <9E9331A490988842B21E7F7DC254C1D4F3A7CB@BPEXU3VM2.andersencorp.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dtgm at comcast.net Thu Sep 16 14:33:05 2004 From: dtgm at comcast.net (Adam Shrode) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] knoppix cd In-Reply-To: <001c01c49c1f$980462c0$0300a8c0@danetech330ba4> References: <001c01c49c1f$980462c0$0300a8c0@danetech330ba4> Message-ID: <4149EA71.10508@comcast.net> dan wrote: >would someone tell me just what a Knoppix CD is and where to get it and just what does it do? > > What is a Knoppix CD? KNOPPIX is a bootable CD with a collection of GNU/Linux software, automatic hardware detection, and support for many graphics cards, sound cards, SCSI and USB devices and other peripherals. More info @ http://www.knopper.net/knoppix-info/index-en.html Where to get it? You can get it at any of these mirrors http://www.knopper.net/knoppix-mirrors/index-en.html Or use bittorrent @ http://torrent.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/ What does it do? KNOPPIX can be used as a Linux demo, educational CD, rescue system, or adapted and used as a platform for commercial software product demos. It is not necessary to install anything on a hard disk. Due to on-the-fly decompression, the CD can have up to 2 GB of executable software installed on it. ------------ All these questions were on the homepage of knoppix or at least a click away. http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jkjones at tcq.net Thu Sep 16 14:26:04 2004 From: jkjones at tcq.net (Kraig Jones) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] knoppix cd In-Reply-To: <001c01c49c1f$980462c0$0300a8c0@danetech330ba4> References: <001c01c49c1f$980462c0$0300a8c0@danetech330ba4> Message-ID: <4149E8CC.70603@tcq.net> dan wrote: > would someone tell me just what a Knoppix CD is and where to get it > and just what does it do? Knoppix is a "live CD" distribution: it runs entirely from CD and memory, and is not installed on your hard drive. It contains many Linux utilities that are useful for troubleshooting and fixing many kinds of problems. See this site: http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html If you can't download and burn a copy for yourself, reply back to me jkjones at tcq net and we'll see if I can get you a copy. Kraig _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Thu Sep 16 14:24:04 2004 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] knoppix cd In-Reply-To: <001c01c49c1f$980462c0$0300a8c0@danetech330ba4> References: <001c01c49c1f$980462c0$0300a8c0@danetech330ba4> Message-ID: <4149E854.5020403@eworld3.net> from the english page of www.knoppix.org: What is KNOPPIX?? KNOPPIX is a bootable CD with a collection of GNU/Linux software, automatic hardware detection, and support for many graphics cards, sound cards, SCSI and USB devices and other peripherals. KNOPPIX can be used as a Linux demo, educational CD, rescue system, or adapted and used as a platform for commercial software product demos. It is not necessary to install anything on a hard disk. Due to on-the-fly decompression, the CD can have up to 2 GB of executable software installed on it. You can download it yourself or ask if someone with a high speed connection will burn one for you. dan wrote: > would someone tell me just what a Knoppix CD is and where to get it and > just what does it do? > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Thu Sep 16 15:51:34 2004 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Database design problem In-Reply-To: <20040916145754.GB26851@wookimus.net> Message-ID: On 9/16/04 9:57 AM, "Chad Walstrom" wrote: > Experience is good. However, remember that most RDBMS use standard SQL. > Additionally, most languages -- including PHP -- have a database > abstraction layer that hides the complexity and RDBMS-specific > function/method calls. For PHP, give libphp-adodb a look. Good point. I appreciated that abstraction layer very much when I was developing with Zope. I will have a look at libphp-adodb. -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jkjones at tcq.net Thu Sep 16 16:02:06 2004 From: jkjones at tcq.net (Kraig Jones) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] knoppix cd In-Reply-To: <001c01c49c1f$980462c0$0300a8c0@danetech330ba4> References: <001c01c49c1f$980462c0$0300a8c0@danetech330ba4> Message-ID: <4149FF4E.2060004@tcq.net> dan wrote: > would someone tell me just what a Knoppix CD is and where to get it > and just what does it do? As for "what does it do?" -- some examples: 1. Installing Linux. Knoppix's hardware detection capability is excellent. If you're having trouble finding the correct configuration of drivers etc, then boot up Knoppix. It usually gets the hardware setup correct, and you can use the Knoppix configuration as a hint of how to set up your installation. On the other hand, if Knoppix doesn't work, prepare yourself for a lot of headaches, or consider using some other hardware. 2. Quick troubleshooting tool. Knoppix doesn't rely on device drivers loaded from your hard disk, so you can check out hardware like video cards and network connections, bypassing software problems. If the hardware works with Knoppix, the problem's probably in the software. Can be used to repair some file system errors on the hard drive, too. Works with Windows as well as Linux systems. 3. Portable software. I like to use OpenOffice.org for word processing, and I can run it from a Knoppix CD anywhere I can borrow a computer. Kraig _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Thu Sep 16 17:13:11 2004 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSH Proxy In-Reply-To: <20040916162501.GA21373@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> References: <1095349784.4149b618ce4bb@webmail.real-time.com> <20040916162501.GA21373@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> Message-ID: <20040916221311.GK2829@momentum.poptix.net> On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 11:25:01AM -0500, James Kaufman wrote: > How painfully slow? Have you tried connecting using the -v switch to ssh? It > might help in showing you what point in the authentication process is slow. It > could be as simple as providing the -4 switch to ssh on connect. That reduced > connection time for me to our servers from 15 seconds to about two seconds. even that is a bit much.. [root@box ~]# time ssh root@otherbox hostname otherbox real 0m0.493s user 0m0.220s sys 0m0.050s Reverse DNS, prefer ipv4, disable X11 authentication forwarding if you aren't using it, etc. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From olwe at cpinternet.com Thu Sep 16 20:57:00 2004 From: olwe at cpinternet.com (Olwe Melwasul) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Emacs question....(there should be a book) Message-ID: <414A446C.3040708@cpinternet.com> There are million little questions that beg solving for novice/reentrant Linux users. For example, where should you stick a new *.el file for Emacs? On my Fedore 2 I see in /usr/share/emacs various places where *.el's are kept, but if I'm adding, where's the best place? Olwe _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kc0iog at gmail.com Thu Sep 16 21:51:21 2004 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Centrino on FC1 Message-ID: <2c6699da0409161951584599ac@mail.gmail.com> I need some help setting up Centrino. I have a laptop with a Centrino 802.11g card installed. Is there a good HOWTO on setting up Centrino on FC1? -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From olwe at cpinternet.com Thu Sep 16 22:32:02 2004 From: olwe at cpinternet.com (Olwe Melwasul) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Emacs question....(there should be a book) In-Reply-To: <414A446C.3040708@cpinternet.com> References: <414A446C.3040708@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: <414A5AB2.6050205@cpinternet.com> I think I answered my own question: http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/support/emacs/load.html But I'd be interested in anyone else's more elegant ideas. Olwe Melwasul wrote: > There are million little questions that beg solving for > novice/reentrant Linux users. For example, where should you stick a > new *.el file for Emacs? On my Fedore 2 I see in /usr/share/emacs > various places where *.el's are kept, but if I'm adding, where's the > best place? > > Olwe > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at fruitioninc.com Thu Sep 16 23:11:06 2004 From: mike at fruitioninc.com (Mike Bresnahan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSH Proxy In-Reply-To: <4149C764.70800@joshwelch.com> Message-ID: > Regarding the SSH authentication issue, every instance I have seen of > this type of issue is a result of having no reverse DNS set up, host > tries to do reverse dns, waits until it fails, then proceeds with the > authentication. Perhaps setting up some reverse DNS records or a host > file on the SSH server would help? Note that the client in this case is a desktop PC running Win2K/Cygwin and the server is a big Solaris box administered by a bureaucracy. The IP number of my desktop PC does not appear to be in DNS. I believe this is true of all the desktop PCs in the whole company. How might I determine that this is a reverse DNS issue? I don't see anything in the ssh -v output that suggests this (or anything else). _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Fri Sep 17 09:39:59 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] multiple outgoing mail addresses In-Reply-To: <200409151604.56872.lists@gahlon.com> References: <16712.35927.34092.209133@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <200409151604.56872.lists@gahlon.com> Message-ID: <16714.63295.769060.570970@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Christopher" == Christopher A Gahlon writes: Christopher> See the comment on about line 95 of the transport file... Christopher> # domain transport:nexthop Christopher> # Mail for domain is delivered through transport to Christopher> # nexthop. Christopher> Try this: Christopher> Edit /etc/postfix/transport Christopher> some.net smtp:[smtp.smarthost.net] Thanks! I simply misunderstood the exceedingly ambiguous use of the word "for" in the above. I believe you are correctly informing me that this is "for" meaning "on behalf of" as opposed to "for" meaning "destined to." Pretty bad choice of wording on the part of the commenter, actually, IMHO. best, R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Fri Sep 17 09:50:28 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] No July TCLUG meeting In-Reply-To: <20040707211006.GF32617@fandre.com> References: <20040701180946.GE3535@fandre.com> <914f813c040706080752786e7a@mail.gmail.com> <20040707211006.GF32617@fandre.com> Message-ID: <914f813c0409170750576a094f@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 7 Jul 2004 16:10:06 -0500, Clay Fandre wrote: > On Tue, 06 Jul 2004, John T. Hoffoss wrote: > > I've got a potential speaker for August, if you don't. Paul Anderson > > (I think; my roomate's uncle) from Wind River, < > > http://www.windriver.com >. Wind River does a lot with embedded OSs, > > supports/complies with open source licenses, etc. (To my knowledge, > > this could be a topic of discussion while Paul is with us.) > > > > Wind River also has products on Mars and on a few other probes that > > have been sent out. Wicked cool, I think. > > > > I'd like to know if August or September would work best before I email > > Paul to see if it'll work with him. I think there'd be much more > > interest in this talk than the last one I brought (XIOtech)... > > > > If we wait 'til September, we could maybe find some people to put some > > posters up around campus/dorms and try to catch a few Frosh on that > > weekend before school starts, too. > > No, I don't have anything lined up for August yet. I was going to > contact CodeWeavers and have them come it, but it probably won't be > until September or October. The schedule is wide open right now, so do > what you can and let me know. I'll leave it up to you. So August and September meetings have come and gone. I just got word back from Paul Anderson, the speaker I've been trying to line up, and he has tentatively said November will work. I'm waiting for a confirmation, and that could change, but right now, I think there's a good chance. So to garner interest in his talk, and to get the word out now, he'll be speaking about embedded Linux and how it's used at WindRiver in their products. I expect this will wander into other talks of technology that they have used, are using, and will use, as well. In addition, Paul is hoping to get in touch with some folks who have experience and/or interest in embedded Linux programming, so postering EE/CS would be good, and the ACM student chapter should definitely hear about this early to get the word out. (I assume we have current members on the list...) So, who's interested in this? Do you have specific questions or topics you'd like to have Paul speak of? Will you bring your embedded Linux developer friends along? Thanks folks. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Fri Sep 17 10:13:15 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] No July TCLUG meeting In-Reply-To: <914f813c0409170750576a094f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > So August and September meetings have come and gone. I just got word > back from Paul Anderson, the speaker I've been trying to line up, and > he has tentatively said November will work. I'm waiting for a Good, I've got a bone to pick reguarding BSD/OS :) > So, who's interested in this? Do you have specific questions or topics > you'd like to have Paul speak of? Will you bring your embedded Linux > developer friends along? I would definately be interested. And although not directly linux related, I would be interested in hearing his take on their involvement in FreeBSD, and their decision to EOL BSD/OS. Which actually may be of interest to others, since it's a story of a corporation sponsoring an open-source product. Especially because in their phone conference with BSDI customers after the merger, they were assuring everyone that they were 100% behind BSD/OS and the ISS product. (Maybe they meant Int'l Space Station, and not Internet Super Server...) I would also be interested in hearing about their involvement with NASA/JPL engineers during the Pathfinder threading problems. IIRC, it was running VxWorks. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drue at therub.org Fri Sep 17 10:42:48 2004 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] web site blocking - transparent proxy Message-ID: <20040917154248.GA40647@therub.org> I'm replacing a (terrible) sonicwall at the office with an openbsd/pf firewall (I consider this list a GNU/Linux list - GNU most primarily :)) Anyway, the boss enjoys being able to monitor web usage (by domains), and being able to block sites by domain or keyword in URL. If I can't find a good solution to install on the openbsd/pf firewall, I'll need to keep the sonicwall in our already complicated network - and I hate that thing plus I can't figure out where it'd fit nicely. I've looked at dansguardian.org and squidguard.org - they seem to work together, but squidguard looks old and unmaintained. Anyone have any killer solutions? I'd suppose I'll end up with a transparent squid server (non-caching, my firewall isn't that beefy). Any suggestions appreciated, thanks dan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Fri Sep 17 10:53:58 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] No July TCLUG meeting In-Reply-To: References: <914f813c0409170750576a094f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <914f813c04091708534a9e2dc9@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 10:13:15 -0500 (CDT), Adam Maloney wrote: > Good, I've got a bone to pick reguarding BSD/OS :) > > I would definately be interested. And although not directly linux > related, I would be interested in hearing his take on their involvement in > FreeBSD, and their decision to EOL BSD/OS. Which actually may be of > interest to others, since it's a story of a corporation sponsoring an > open-source product. > > Especially because in their phone conference with BSDI customers after the > merger, they were assuring everyone that they were 100% behind BSD/OS and > the ISS product. (Maybe they meant Int'l Space Station, and not Internet > Super Server...) I'll pass that on. I actually chatted with one of Paul's coworkers about the BSD/OS EOL stuff, but I didn't know much about it at the time, so I can't really recall/contribute much on that front. Paul, I'm sure, can. > I would also be interested in hearing about their involvement with > NASA/JPL engineers during the Pathfinder threading problems. IIRC, it was > running VxWorks. I'm sure this will come up as well. John _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Fri Sep 17 10:48:04 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] web site blocking - transparent proxy In-Reply-To: <20040917154248.GA40647@therub.org> Message-ID: > I've looked at dansguardian.org and squidguard.org - they seem to work > together, but squidguard looks old and unmaintained. Anyone have any > killer solutions? I'd suppose I'll end up with a transparent squid > server (non-caching, my firewall isn't that beefy). Squid can block by address. And if you're crafty it can block by URL content. I ended up doing this for a personal project of mine. I think I had to enable an option during --configure, and then I was able to specify a "filter" in the config, where all URL's were passed into. The filter is passed the URL line (and some other stuff) and has the option of re-writing it. Another option would be to use Privoxy, which doesn't cache, but blocks. I was toying around with this last year, and it looked really good. Oh yeah, if you enable the "fun" filter, it will re-write "Microsoft" to "Microsuck" in the returned HTML content. Fun indeed. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bruce.broecker at toro.com Fri Sep 17 11:04:32 2004 From: bruce.broecker at toro.com (Bruce Broecker) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] web site blocking - transparent proxy Message-ID: >>> drue@therub.org 09/17/04 10:42AM >>> >I'm replacing a (terrible) sonicwall at the office with an openbsd/pf >firewall (I consider this list a GNU/Linux list - GNU most primarily :)) >Anyway, the boss enjoys being able to monitor web usage (by domains), >and being able to block sites by domain or keyword in URL. Good thing we didn't go with the Sonicwall >If I can't find a good solution to install on the openbsd/pf firewall, >I'll need to keep the sonicwall in our already complicated network - and >I hate that thing plus I can't figure out where it'd fit nicely. >I've looked at dansguardian.org and squidguard.org - they seem to work >together, but squidguard looks old and unmaintained. Anyone have any >killer solutions? I'd suppose I'll end up with a transparent squid >server (non-caching, my firewall isn't that beefy). I'm using Webalizer with some of my own patches to do some of this. I'd be glad to share. Basically, I added the ability to consolidate on destination URL. Webalizer already handled Squid format logs, and did a nice job consolidating on source. Mind you, this is only the reporting piece. We're not using Squid for a proxy/cache. We're a NetApp Netcache shop with Smartfilters. Bruce _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andyzib at gmail.com Fri Sep 17 11:38:53 2004 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FM Radio Tuner Tricks Message-ID: I've been seaching without much success for a program that will tune my USB radio tuner (D-Link DSP R100 http://support.dlink.com/products/view.asp?productid=DSB%2DR100) from the command line. If anyone knows of such a best, please let me know. :) Since I just can't get a decent radio signal at work, my thought is I can do somehting TiVoish with this device. Just cook up a cron job to tune the radio to the right frequency, then mp3 or ogg encode from the Line-In Audio jack, then I can drop the result on to my MuVo, or my Treo 600, or just listen on the coputer. (The USB connection is only used to tune the radio, the audio comes into the PC's soundcard via the line-in or microphone.) The questions I have are...it's not immediatly obvious to me how to use lame or oggenc to encode directly from the line in...if it's even possible? Does the entire thing need to be dropped into wav first? Also, anyone have any thoughts as what a good bitrate for FM radio encoding would be? Mostly I'm going for talk shows, so quality isn't a huge issue. Thanks. -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From whiterabbit1 at gmail.com Fri Sep 17 11:42:26 2004 From: whiterabbit1 at gmail.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] web site blocking - transparent proxy In-Reply-To: References: <20040917154248.GA40647@therub.org> Message-ID: <307a337f04091709422743493c@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 10:48:04 -0500 (CDT), Adam Maloney wrote: > > I've looked at dansguardian.org and squidguard.org - they seem to work > > together, but squidguard looks old and unmaintained. Anyone have any > > killer solutions? I'd suppose I'll end up with a transparent squid > > server (non-caching, my firewall isn't that beefy). > > Squid can block by address. And if you're crafty it can block by URL > content. I ended up doing this for a personal project of mine. I think I > had to enable an option during --configure, and then I was able to specify > a "filter" in the config, where all URL's were passed into. The filter is > passed the URL line (and some other stuff) and has the option of > re-writing it. > > Another option would be to use Privoxy, which doesn't cache, but blocks. > I was toying around with this last year, and it looked really good. Oh > yeah, if you enable the "fun" filter, it will re-write "Microsoft" to > "Microsuck" in the returned HTML content. Fun indeed. Gives it that decidedly "yeah, we're 12 year olds feel." _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Fri Sep 17 11:36:06 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] web site blocking - transparent proxy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I'm using Webalizer with some of my own patches to do some of this. I'd be glad > to share. Incidentally, I've never used Webalizer against squid logs, but I found SARG to do a nice job. Breaks down sites per-IP too, which is nice to see how much of your company's bandwidth/time is going towards ESPN. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Fri Sep 17 11:43:53 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] web site blocking - transparent proxy In-Reply-To: <307a337f04091709422743493c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > Gives it that decidedly "yeah, we're 12 year olds feel." Or, acts as a config example for how to manipulate page content :) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Fri Sep 17 11:55:45 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Anyone done a large-scale squid implementation? Message-ID: Dan's message reminded me to ask for real-world implementations of large, highly-available squid installations...on Linux (just so it's on-topic). I want: Transparent + Privoxy + Squid + Load-balanced + Redundant With a side of Cache Peering (NOT parent/sibling, but sibling/sibling, or some sort of force-feed model). And there may be more than 2 caches, so opinions on 3 or 4 peered caches. One of the big issues is the redundancy. My feeling is that WCCPv2 is the "right" way to do it, but last I checked, Squid's WCCP2 stuff was still immature. In that case I would do FreeVRRP. I've thrown Privoxy in the mix although it shouldn't really be an issue. It can either forward everything to squid, or I can config squid to forward everything to Privoxy. I would have both squid and priv. running on all caches, and one would forward to the local instance of the other. I'd be grateful for any input on what others have done in this scenario. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From eric at lgthouse.com Fri Sep 17 12:45:37 2004 From: eric at lgthouse.com (Eric Peterson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Software licensing/copyrighting Message-ID: <3510.160.94.198.186.1095443137.squirrel@160.94.198.186> Hi again, I've been googling all over the place looking for information pertaining to licensing/copyrighting and I have not gotten very far. I've found some information on the US copyright home page and a few things here and there on various developer sites, but nothing great. I'm building a web based application for a high school and I'm not really sure what my rights are as the developer. I don't have a lot of money to spend on lawyer fees, but I would do so if it's necessary. Does the fact that the purchaser of the software is a public institution using public money change how I can license the software? If I accept money for the software before I have it copyrighted/licensed does that change my rights to copyright/license the software? A person besides myself is the person determining the layout and usability of the software, but has no part in the design or programming of the software. Does this person have any rights to the software? If it helps, I'm building all the software at my own office and on my own computers. Nothing is being developed on public property. Also, I've been subcontracted to work on the project and I don't have to deal directly at the school at this point. Any help or recommendations on where to get legal advice would be very appreciated. Thanks, Eric _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erikerik at gmail.com Fri Sep 17 13:15:06 2004 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FM Radio Tuner Tricks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 11:38:53 -0500, Andrew Zbikowski wrote: > The questions I have are...it's not immediatly obvious to me how to > use lame or oggenc to encode directly from the line in...if it's even > possible? Does the entire thing need to be dropped into wav first? > > Also, anyone have any thoughts as what a good bitrate for FM radio > encoding would be? Mostly I'm going for talk shows, so quality isn't a > huge issue. This isn't exactly what you're looking for, but I wrote this script a few months ago to record a few mpr shows....I wasn't using an FM tuner, but I just plugged a cheapo radio into the line-in jack. Obviously the limitation with that approach is that you're stuck with one frequency. Hopefully this will get you going in the right direction. It uses arecord to record the wav file, which it then passes through ecanormalize, which evens out the relative volume levels of the shows. After the normalization step, I compress with lame. As you can see, I have some defaults set in the variables section, but you can specify things like bitrate, samle rate, etc from the command line. When recording a voice-only show, I compress at a fairly low bitrate, but it's nice to have the option of compressing at 128/256/etc for shows with music. -Erik -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: record-show Type: application/octet-stream Size: 1053 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20040917/33bd54b2/record-show.obj -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bruce.broecker at toro.com Fri Sep 17 13:50:02 2004 From: bruce.broecker at toro.com (Bruce Broecker) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] web site blocking - transparent proxy Message-ID: >>> adam@whee.org 09/17/04 11:36AM >>> >> I'm using Webalizer with some of my own patches to do some of this. I'd be glad >> to share. >Incidentally, I've never used Webalizer against squid logs, but I found >SARG to do a nice job. Breaks down sites per-IP too, which is nice to see >how much of your company's bandwidth/time is going towards ESPN. Hmmm, I will have to take a look at SARG. It didn't take me long to hack webalizer to do what I want, and there hasn't been a new release, so maintenance isn't currently an issue. On the other hand, it's still unnecessary maintenance. Bruce _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jkjones at tcq.net Fri Sep 17 14:02:12 2004 From: jkjones at tcq.net (Kraig Jones) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Software licensing/copyrighting In-Reply-To: <3510.160.94.198.186.1095443137.squirrel@160.94.198.186> References: <3510.160.94.198.186.1095443137.squirrel@160.94.198.186> Message-ID: <414B34B4.7030609@tcq.net> Eric Peterson wrote: >Hi again, > >I've been googling all over the place looking for information pertaining >to licensing/copyrighting and I have not gotten very far. I've found some >information on the US copyright home page and a few things here and there >on various developer sites, but nothing great. > > > ... >Any help or recommendations on where to get legal advice would be very >appreciated. > >Thanks, >Eric > > I Am Not A Lawyer... so I won't even try to offer advice on your copyrights. I will tell you that Nolo Press has several clear, easy to understand books on legal subjects like this. I followed their books on LLC's when I set up a company, later got much the same advice from a laywer. They have a web page with some advice on selected topics (www.nolopress.com). I'm sure you can find the Nolo books at most public libraries. Bookstores have them, too. Kraig _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drue at therub.org Fri Sep 17 14:17:12 2004 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] web site blocking - transparent proxy In-Reply-To: <20040917154248.GA40647@therub.org> References: <20040917154248.GA40647@therub.org> Message-ID: <20040917191712.GC40647@therub.org> FWIW, here's what I'll be using. The sonic wall is out of here! I can get much more control with my solution, and it really wasn't too tough to figure out (having never used squid or anything before) - Squid+dansguardian+SARG. Squid provides the proxy services. Dans Guardian does filtering, and SARG does reporting. It's working great on my test system - so it should be no problem. Thanks! dan On Fri, Sep 17, 2004 at 10:42:48AM -0500, Dan Rue wrote: > I'm replacing a (terrible) sonicwall at the office with an openbsd/pf > firewall (I consider this list a GNU/Linux list - GNU most primarily :)) > Anyway, the boss enjoys being able to monitor web usage (by domains), > and being able to block sites by domain or keyword in URL. > > If I can't find a good solution to install on the openbsd/pf firewall, > I'll need to keep the sonicwall in our already complicated network - and > I hate that thing plus I can't figure out where it'd fit nicely. > > I've looked at dansguardian.org and squidguard.org - they seem to work > together, but squidguard looks old and unmaintained. Anyone have any > killer solutions? I'd suppose I'll end up with a transparent squid > server (non-caching, my firewall isn't that beefy). > > Any suggestions appreciated, thanks > dan > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Fri Sep 17 14:29:53 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Software licensing/copyrighting In-Reply-To: <414B34B4.7030609@tcq.net> References: <3510.160.94.198.186.1095443137.squirrel@160.94.198.186> <414B34B4.7030609@tcq.net> Message-ID: <20040917192953.GH14100@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com Fri Sep 17 15:24:08 2004 From: tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com (Robert D. De Mars) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] secure & non-secure virtual hosting Message-ID: <414B47E8.60506@b-o-b.homelinux.com> I am having some problems setting up apache for secure & non-secure virtual hosts. The machine in question is a red hat 9 running apache 2.0.40. I initally had all the v-hosts working non-secure, but not secure. I changed some stuff to enable ssl on these v-hosts, and now only secure works? I get bad requests ERROR 400 on the non-secures. I was wondering if anyone here might be able to help me. Here is my v-host config from httpd.conf: ### Section 3: Virtual Hosts # # VirtualHost: If you want to maintain multiple domains/hostnames on your # machine you can setup VirtualHost containers for them. Most configurations # use only name-based virtual hosts so the server doesn't need to worry about # IP addresses. This is indicated by the asterisks in the directives below. # # Please see the documentation at # # for further details before you try to setup virtual hosts. # # You may use the command line option '-S' to verify your virtual host # configuration. # # Use name-based virtual hosting. # NameVirtualHost 207.36.180.161 # # VirtualHost example: # Almost any Apache directive may go into a VirtualHost container. # The first VirtualHost section is used for requests without a known # server name. # # # ServerAdmin webmaster@dummy-host.example.com # DocumentRoot /www/docs/dummy-host.example.com # ServerName dummy-host.example.com # ErrorLog logs/dummy-host.example.com-error_log # CustomLog logs/dummy-host.example.com-access_log common # DocumentRoot /var/www/html ServerName www.r1n.net DocumentRoot /var/www/html/mail ServerName mail.r1n.net DocumentRoot /var/www/r1test ServerName r1testing.homeunix.com Here is a chunk of my ssl.conf ## ## SSL Virtual Host Context ## # # General setup for the virtual host #DocumentRoot "/var/www/html/" #ServerName _default_:443 # ServerAdmin you@your.address #ErrorLog logs/ssl_error_log #TransferLog logs/ssl_access_log DocumentRoot "/var/www/html/mail" ServerName mail.r1n.net # SSL Engine Switch: # Enable/Disable SSL for this virtual host. SSLEngine on the 3 v-hosts all work https/secure, but not http/non-secure. Any ideas on what I might be doing worng would be great :) Many Thanks, Robert De Mars -- Lat. 45:09n Long. 93:18w http://b-o-b.homelinux.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Fri Sep 17 16:05:31 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Emacs question....(there should be a book) In-Reply-To: <414A446C.3040708@cpinternet.com> References: <414A446C.3040708@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: <16715.20891.517355.154856@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Olwe" == Olwe Melwasul writes: Olwe> There are million little questions that beg solving for novice/reentrant Olwe> Linux users. For example, where should you stick a new *.el file for Olwe> Emacs? On my Fedore 2 I see in /usr/share/emacs various places where Olwe> *.el's are kept, but if I'm adding, where's the best place? I'd be inclined to keep them out of /usr/share/emacs, since that's the stuff that will be blown away when you upgrade your distro or some such. And they don't come with your distro so they won't reappear with the reinstall... I just make something like ~/emacs-lisp and put stuff in there. Then I (add-to-load-path (expand-file-name "~/emacs-lisp/") [add-to-load-path is the obvious defun that does add-to-list on load-path.] My OWN new emacs lisp files I put elsewhere, under CVS control... HTH, R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kfuchs at winternet.com Fri Sep 17 19:57:17 2004 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] No July TCLUG meeting In-Reply-To: <914f813c0409170750576a094f@mail.gmail.com> (john.t.hoffoss@gmail.com) References: <20040701180946.GE3535@fandre.com> <914f813c040706080752786e7a@mail.gmail.com> <20040707211006.GF32617@fandre.com> <914f813c0409170750576a094f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200409180057.i8I0vH225767@ecstasy1.winternet.com> Paul Anderson from Wind River Systems will present an embedded Linux talk at the November meeting: John T. Hoffoss wrote: >So to garner interest in his talk, and to get the word out now, he'll >be speaking about embedded Linux and how it's used at WindRiver in >their products. I expect this will wander into other talks of >technology that they have used, are using, and will use, as well. In >addition, Paul is hoping to get in touch with some folks who have >experience and/or interest in embedded Linux programming, so postering >EE/CS would be good, and the ACM student chapter should definitely >hear about this early to get the word out. (I assume we have current >members on the list...) In the not too distant past, Wind River Systems seemed to think that Linux in the embedded space would be a fad that would eventually wither and die. They may even have actively worked against Linux adoption. They seem to have made a complete 180 in the past year or so. Most of their tools now support Linux and VxWorks and even other operating systems. Their Ethernet connection JTAG box accessing the embedded device chain is quite interesting and the host software software seems to all be there. (I have used it, but did see it used and it was quite impressive.) They have produced several reference boards, often using PPC and uboot firmware. I don't know what Paul will do, but it would be great if he could demo the above and also netboot a PPC reference board from a PC laptop running tftp, dhcp/bootp and NFS root, plus show how to set it all up. Might not be enough time. (Don't expect any x86 stuff, embedded guys use real microprocessors like ARM, PPC, Hitachi, etc.) Anyway, I wouldn't miss the November meeting. Neither should you! Could be some great embedded development stories and humour too! Sincerely, Ken Fuchs _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From electrum at gmail.com Fri Sep 17 21:48:05 2004 From: electrum at gmail.com (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Anyone done a large-scale squid implementation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <853e1ecc04091719484a4df1fe@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 11:55:45 -0500 (CDT), Adam Maloney wrote: > Dan's message reminded me to ask for real-world implementations of large, > highly-available squid installations...on Linux (just so it's on-topic). I tried to use Squid about a year ago as a reverse proxy. We had a lot of free hosting content and needed to distribute the disk transactions across a number of disks. There was too much content to simply replicate it across machines, so the idea was to use Squid to dynamically replicate the content as it was requested. It worked fine in testing, but under load everything slowed to a crawl. I spent about a week tweaking it and never could get it to work right. Squid tries to do everything and requires a very complex configuration file that isn't well documented. Figuring out how to get it to perform better requires guesswork or reading the source. In the end I gave up and spent a few hours writing an ISAPI filter for Zeus that solved the problem in a much better way than squid ever could. Everything I read indicated that no one was using Squid with that much traffic (50-100mbits per machine or more). Maybe you'll have better luck using it as an outgoing proxy, but someone would have to try very hard to convince me to look at Squid again. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From veldy at veldy.net Fri Sep 17 22:27:34 2004 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Courier IMAP, MySQL, Postfix and Maildrop Message-ID: <414BAB26.2000806@veldy.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dan at dandrake.org Sat Sep 18 11:39:00 2004 From: dan at dandrake.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] lsof and spaces in filenames Message-ID: <20040918163900.GA7754@aleph-one> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From electrum at gmail.com Sat Sep 18 12:23:53 2004 From: electrum at gmail.com (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] lsof and spaces in filenames In-Reply-To: <20040918163900.GA7754@aleph-one> References: <20040918163900.GA7754@aleph-one> Message-ID: <853e1ecc0409181023716156cf@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 11:39:00 -0500, Dan Drake wrote: > mpg321 7805 dan cwd DIR 3,65 10936 419905 /pub/tmp/SomaFM presents- Indie Pop Rocks! [SomaFM] > mpg321 7805 dan mem REG 3,65 420047 /pub/tmp/SomaFM (stat: No such file or directory) That looks like a bug in lsof. lsof 4.71 on Debian testing works fine (though it is an fd and not an mmap): $ lsof | grep foo.txt cat 30402 electrum 1w REG 3,2 0 261791 /home/electrum/zzz/dir with spaces/foo.txt Try the lsof package from testing: http://http.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/l/lsof/lsof_4.71-1_i386.deb -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dan at dandrake.org Sat Sep 18 17:19:06 2004 From: dan at dandrake.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] lsof and spaces in filenames In-Reply-To: <853e1ecc0409181023716156cf@mail.gmail.com> References: <20040918163900.GA7754@aleph-one> <853e1ecc0409181023716156cf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040918221906.GA13912@aleph-one> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From aladavs at dunwoody.edu Sat Sep 18 18:05:05 2004 From: aladavs at dunwoody.edu (aladavs@dunwoody.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Webspace-Account...... Message-ID: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD01549315@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us> Does anybody have webserver space to share? I would like to put my college projects online. I am willing to pay? I thought I'd the list before going online and buying one! p.s. Do you know of any real awsome providers? Thanks in advanced... Sincerely, David Alanis sdalan04@smumn.edu _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dtgm at comcast.net Sat Sep 18 20:42:31 2004 From: dtgm at comcast.net (Adam Shrode) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Webspace-Account...... In-Reply-To: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD01549315@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us> References: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD01549315@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us> Message-ID: <414CE407.5030304@comcast.net> aladavs@dunwoody.edu wrote: >Does anybody have webserver space to share? I would like to put my college projects online. I am willing to pay? I thought I'd the list before going online and buying one! > >p.s. Do you know of any real awsome providers? > >Thanks in advanced... > > >Sincerely, > >David Alanis >sdalan04@smumn.edu > > Depends on your needs. I would recommend http://www.nearlyfreespeech.net/ if all you need is a minimalistic approach with small file transfers. Transfers: 1GB/$1.00 Disk space: $0.01/MB/Month And get a domain name through nearlyfreespeech.net with a .us extension for $4.95. The DNS can be free as well http://www.zoneedit.com/. That's probably the best bang for the buck considering reliability and all. Regards, Adam Shrode _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From eric at lgthouse.com Sat Sep 18 21:45:22 2004 From: eric at lgthouse.com (Eric Peterson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Software licensing/copyrighting In-Reply-To: <414B34B4.7030609@tcq.net> References: <3510.160.94.198.186.1095443137.squirrel@160.94.198.186> <414B34B4.7030609@tcq.net> Message-ID: <4978.24.163.202.16.1095561922.squirrel@24.163.202.16> > I Am Not A Lawyer... so I won't even try to offer advice on your > copyrights. I will tell you that Nolo Press has several clear, easy to > understand books on legal subjects like this. I followed their books on > LLC's when I set up a company, later got much the same advice from a > laywer. They have a web page with some advice on selected topics > (www.nolopress.com). I'm sure you can find the Nolo books at most > public libraries. Bookstores have them, too. > > Kraig > Kraig, Thank you for the recommendation. I bought the LLC maker and found the information useful. I also bought a couple other ebooks about software licensing that are very good thus far. Thanks again! Eric _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Sun Sep 19 08:37:07 2004 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Centrino on FC1 In-Reply-To: <2c6699da0409161951584599ac@mail.gmail.com> References: <2c6699da0409161951584599ac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <414D8B83.6040901@eworld3.net> I noticed that you have not received any on-list replys. Do you still need help? Brian Wall wrote: > I need some help setting up Centrino. I have a laptop with a Centrino > 802.11g card installed. Is there a good HOWTO on setting up Centrino > on FC1? > > -Brian > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Sun Sep 19 15:27:45 2004 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200409192027.i8JKRj624026@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: 7 Compaq Armada 7800 60 dollars US each I have 7 of these Compaq Armada 7800 and Leather Case PII 266MHz 64mb RAM 5 gig hard drive S3 ViRGE MX with 4mb RAM 13 1 inch XGA TTF Floppy drive 2 pcmcia slots 1 USB slot serial Parallel PS2 Mouse VGA 1 infrared Contact me at smac at visi dot com Seller Email address: smac at visi dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kc0iog at gmail.com Sun Sep 19 16:28:15 2004 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Centrino on FC1 In-Reply-To: <414D8B83.6040901@eworld3.net> References: <2c6699da0409161951584599ac@mail.gmail.com> <414D8B83.6040901@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <2c6699da04091914287c6bafa@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 08:37:07 -0500, Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > I noticed that you have not received any on-list replys. Do you still > need help? Yes I do. I've found some RPMs for FC1, but they have some unresolved dependendencies and I can't find the depended on RPMs. If there's no decent HOWTO, I'll write one as soon as I can get it working. In the meantime, I still need help! -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bruce.broecker at toro.com Sun Sep 19 21:46:18 2004 From: bruce.broecker at toro.com (Bruce Broecker) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Courier IMAP, MySQL, Postfix and Maildrop Message-ID: >>> veldy@veldy.net 09/17/04 10:27PM >>> >Has anybody setup the combination of Courier IMAP, MySQL, Postfix and >Courier Maildrop and managed to get it to work? I am running the full Courier suite, so may be able to shed some light. Note: I'm using local auth, so YMMV. >I am so close I could just scream, but I can not get any of the Courier >components to work! >I get postfix to query my MySQL database just fine so it will accept >recipient mail. However, when I try to get courier maildrop to deliver >the mail I get: >fuggle# maildrop -d test@veldy.com >Invalid user specified. >There is no record of it querying the database even though I know I have >the maildropmysql.config setup correctly (tabs, no spaces .... etc). As >a matter of fact, it doesn't seem to matter what is in the file and just >touching it results in the same thing! Is the proper authdaemon built, and configured? Is authdaemond running? >I am having the same problem with Courier IMAP, it doesn't seem to read >the database either and I have setup authmysqlrc appropriately as well >and placed authmysql at the front of the authmodulelist. Same comments apply here. courier auth depends on a backend auth system. >Does anybody have any ideas what I should look for to solve this >problem? It is truly maddening. feel free to contact me off list. HTH, Bruce _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gsker at comcast.net Sun Sep 19 21:50:38 2004 From: gsker at comcast.net (Gerry) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SVGALIB for FC2 Message-ID: I've been trying to get svgalib working on a Fedora Core 2 system. It doesn't build the svgalib_helper module right when compiling from source (svgalib-1.9.19). Interestingly enough, I find mention of getting it working on a 2.6 kernel in the Gentoo stuff, but I can't figure out how to get to that source. Can some kind gentoo user help me extract what I need? It's the patches referred to in the ebuild files at http://www.gentoo-portage.com/browse-program.php?program=2748 Is there any way to get to the patches directly? Thanks, Gerry -- Gerry Skerbitz gsker@comcast.net _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Mon Sep 20 07:46:38 2004 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FM Radio Tuner Tricks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <414ED12E.8030307@structural-wood.com> I had one of these once, and I think that I used the utility 'fm' to tune it. It's been many years... I do remember that it worked well. Andrew Zbikowski wrote: > I've been seaching without much success for a program that will tune > my USB radio tuner (D-Link DSP R100 > http://support.dlink.com/products/view.asp?productid=DSB%2DR100) from > the command line. > > If anyone knows of such a best, please let me know. :) > > Since I just can't get a decent radio signal at work, my thought is I > can do somehting TiVoish with this device. Just cook up a cron job to > tune the radio to the right frequency, then mp3 or ogg encode from the > Line-In Audio jack, then I can drop the result on to my MuVo, or my > Treo 600, or just listen on the coputer. (The USB connection is only > used to tune the radio, the audio comes into the PC's soundcard via > the line-in or microphone.) > > The questions I have are...it's not immediatly obvious to me how to > use lame or oggenc to encode directly from the line in...if it's even > possible? Does the entire thing need to be dropped into wav first? > > Also, anyone have any thoughts as what a good bitrate for FM radio > encoding would be? Mostly I'm going for talk shows, so quality isn't a > huge issue. > > Thanks. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Mon Sep 20 10:31:14 2004 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Centrino on FC1 In-Reply-To: <2c6699da0409161951584599ac@mail.gmail.com> References: <2c6699da0409161951584599ac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <414EF7C2.1040203@eworld3.net> Brian Wall wrote: > I need some help setting up Centrino. I have a laptop with a Centrino > 802.11g card installed. Is there a good HOWTO on setting up Centrino > on FC1? > If I understand you correctly, you would like some help installing Fedora Core 1 on a laptop that has a Centrino CPU and a 802.11g wireless card. I probably won't be much help but maybe if you describe what you have done and what you have not been able to do someone else can answer your specific questions. -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From skodak at cs.umn.edu Mon Sep 20 11:14:56 2004 From: skodak at cs.umn.edu (Sreekumar Kodakara) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Automatically Nicing Programs Message-ID: Hi, Is there a program which will automatically "nice" processes which take up too much resources? I am asking this due to the following problem. At the university, we have supercomputing facility. There are interactive nodes and there are nodes to which you submit jobs. One is not supposed to run programs in the interactive nodes. Interactive nodes is for editing code and basically do stuff, which do not consume processor resources a lot. But users, for testing their code, will run programs for a short time. Some of these programs are parallel ones, which basically consume all the resources available in the interactive node (Memory, processors etc) for Say 5-10 minutes. During this time, other users who are using that machine for editing etc, will find the machine non-responsive. Is there any program which will find such situation and nice those parallel/high resource consuming jobs, so that otherpeople using this machine will not find it non-responsive. There are Linux machines (Itanium-2 and Pentium) and other machies in the institute. I hope I am clear in my question. Thanks for the help Sreekumar _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kc0iog at gmail.com Mon Sep 20 11:40:25 2004 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Centrino on FC1 In-Reply-To: <414EF7C2.1040203@eworld3.net> References: <2c6699da0409161951584599ac@mail.gmail.com> <414EF7C2.1040203@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <2c6699da040920094011673373@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:31:14 -0500, Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > If I understand you correctly, you would like some help installing > Fedora Core 1 on a laptop that has a Centrino CPU and a 802.11g wireless > card. FC1 is installed and happy. I'm currently networked using the onboard NIC and everything is good there. I want to be able to use the wireless card, though, which is the onboard Centrino 802.11g card. Based on Google searches, I have figured out the following: The driver is an Intel secret The 802.11b driver works pretty well The 802.11g works not so well Both of them are a pain in the arse to install and use, regardless No good HOWTO exists If anyone can help me get this %$#@%$ Centrino 802.11g card working, I'd appreciate it. -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From slushpupie at gmail.com Mon Sep 20 12:12:19 2004 From: slushpupie at gmail.com (slushpupie@gmail.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] generic linux versioning Message-ID: Every so often some scripts I wrote need to know what distro they are running on. After a few distros, this is turning into a big hack, running uname then checking for /etc/*version files. Is there a better way to know what distro you are on? Jay -- Jay Kline http://www.slushpupie.com/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andyzib at gmail.com Mon Sep 20 12:26:28 2004 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] knoppix cd In-Reply-To: <4149FF4E.2060004@tcq.net> References: <001c01c49c1f$980462c0$0300a8c0@danetech330ba4> <4149FF4E.2060004@tcq.net> Message-ID: If Knoppix works well for you, you can install it to your hard drive. Not sure of the full details there...read the manual. It's supposivly Debian compatible, so you can make use of Debian packages or move from Knoppix to Debian if you're really brave... -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Mon Sep 20 12:41:34 2004 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Centrino on FC1 In-Reply-To: <2c6699da040920094011673373@mail.gmail.com> References: <2c6699da0409161951584599ac@mail.gmail.com> <414EF7C2.1040203@eworld3.net> <2c6699da040920094011673373@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040920124134.A3989@baker.space.umn.edu> On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 11:40:25AM -0500, Brian Wall wrote: > > FC1 is installed and happy. I'm currently networked using the onboard > NIC and everything is good there. I want to be able to use the > wireless card, though, which is the onboard Centrino 802.11g card. > Based on Google searches, I have figured out the following: First off, Centrino is just a marketing buzzword. Its Intel's name for their package deal for laptops running Intel M processors, one of their wireless cards, and some of their other chipsets. You are better of searching for the searching for the chipset name, which in your case I believe is the 2200. ( I have a laptop with a 2100-based 802.11b card). > The driver is an Intel secret Partially true. The driver is open source, but it depends on loading binary firmware. > The 802.11b driver works pretty well Yep, works well for me. > The 802.11g works not so well I don't know from personal experience. It looks like its a little rougher, but functional. > Both of them are a pain in the arse to install and use, regardless The process isn't painless, but its not that bad. > No good HOWTO exists There may not be an official Howto document, but there is a lot of documentation at http://ipw2200.sourceforge.net/. Have you looked there? If so, how far did you get? The process may not be well-integrated into Fedora yet, but it certainly should work. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Mon Sep 20 13:43:48 2004 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Automatically Nicing Programs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040920134348.A4383@baker.space.umn.edu> On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 11:14:56AM -0500, Sreekumar Kodakara wrote: > Hi, > > Is there a program which will automatically "nice" processes which take up > too much resources? I am asking this due to the following problem. Take a look at the Auto Nice Daemon: http://and.sourceforge.net/. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lists at gahlon.com Mon Sep 20 14:21:46 2004 From: lists at gahlon.com (Christopher A. Gahlon) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Automatically Nicing Programs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200409201421.46478.lists@gahlon.com> The auto nice daemon looks good.... http://sourceforge.net/projects/and -- Christopher A. Gahlon There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those that understand binary and those that don't. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mark_j at visi.com Mon Sep 20 16:47:07 2004 From: mark_j at visi.com (Mark Jefferis) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Suse 9.1 upgrade/install hung at Grub In-Reply-To: References: <4149FF4E.2060004@tcq.net> <001c01c49c1f$980462c0$0300a8c0@danetech330ba4> <4149FF4E.2060004@tcq.net> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20040920164309.00ba4b60@pop.visi.com> >All, Need assistance. Bought Suse 9.1 to upgrade from Suse 8.2. CD didn't upgrade. It did fresh install and didn't reboot to log in screen. Instead leaves me stuck at a Grub prompt when rebooting. How to move beyond Grub and fix? Google shows this has happened to others. Have not emailed Suse support yet. Mark _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From obelin23 at gmail.com Mon Sep 20 16:58:08 2004 From: obelin23 at gmail.com (Charlie O) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] knoppix cd In-Reply-To: References: <001c01c49c1f$980462c0$0300a8c0@danetech330ba4> <4149FF4E.2060004@tcq.net> Message-ID: <72278d104092014589f6a5b0@mail.gmail.com> Regarding the installing - the Mepis distro is based on Knoppix and designed to be either run live off the CD or easily installed to the hard drive. I can vouch for it being Debian-compatible - I've used apt-get several times, and it installs from Debian package sites. (btw, apt-get is seriously sweet - this is my first real exposure to it.) Cheers, Charlie Obert On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:26:28 -0500, Andrew Zbikowski wrote: > If Knoppix works well for you, you can install it to your hard drive. > Not sure of the full details there...read the manual. It's supposivly > Debian compatible, so you can make use of Debian packages or move from > Knoppix to Debian if you're really brave... > > -- > Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us > A password is like your underwear; Change it > frequently, don't share it with others, and > don't ask to borrow someone else's. > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jack at jacku.com Mon Sep 20 17:56:16 2004 From: jack at jacku.com (jack@jacku.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Suse 9.1 upgrade/install hung at Grub In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040920164309.00ba4b60@pop.visi.com> References: <4149FF4E.2060004@tcq.net> <001c01c49c1f$980462c0$0300a8c0@danetech330ba4> <4149FF4E.2060004@tcq.net> <5.2.1.1.0.20040920164309.00ba4b60@pop.visi.com> Message-ID: <53830.67.109.198.6.1095720976.squirrel@67.109.198.6> > >>All, > > Need assistance. Bought Suse 9.1 to upgrade from Suse 8.2. CD didn't > upgrade. It did fresh install and didn't reboot to log in screen. > Instead leaves me stuck at a Grub prompt when rebooting. > > How to move beyond Grub and fix? Google shows this has happened to others. > Have not emailed Suse support yet. > > Mark > > A couple of options come to mind: Plan A: 1. Boot from the CD and select install. 2. Once in YaST installer select (I'm not certain of language) either repair installation or repair boot loader. 3. If the option in two is repair installation then you should have an option to repair/replace/rebuild boot loader. 4. This should get you to the boot loader screen and try fixing from there. Plan B: 1. Same as above but select manual installation 2. At the character mode menu select Option to Exit/Reboot 3. Select option to boot installed system. 4. Try to manually fix the boot loader once it boots. Plan C: Follow either of the above and replace GRUB with LILO. Jack _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kc0iog at gmail.com Mon Sep 20 18:33:46 2004 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Centrino on FC1 In-Reply-To: <20040920124134.A3989@baker.space.umn.edu> References: <2c6699da0409161951584599ac@mail.gmail.com> <414EF7C2.1040203@eworld3.net> <2c6699da040920094011673373@mail.gmail.com> <20040920124134.A3989@baker.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <2c6699da040920163362e022f5@mail.gmail.com> > You are better of searching for the searching for the chipset > name, which in your case I believe is the 2200. ( I have a laptop > with a 2100-based 802.11b card). Ok, that helps. > There may not be an official Howto document, but there is a lot > of documentation at http://ipw2200.sourceforge.net/. Have you > looked there? If so, how far did you get? I was looking there, and somehow I got to a download page of RPMs for FC1. I downloaded the ipw2200 RPMs, which came up with unmet dependencies that weren't referenced anywhere in the sourceforge documentation. FYI, I did an everything install of Fedora, just because I could. These RPMs are apparently not part of the Fedora distribution, so I'll have to do some hunting. > The process may not be well-integrated into Fedora yet, but it > certainly should work. I'll be playing with it during the Vikings game tonight, I'll post a followup. -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From patnewsletters at ip-wizard.com Mon Sep 20 19:09:22 2004 From: patnewsletters at ip-wizard.com (Pat) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Suse 9.1 upgrade/install hung at Grub In-Reply-To: <53830.67.109.198.6.1095720976.squirrel@67.109.198.6> References: <4149FF4E.2060004@tcq.net> <001c01c49c1f$980462c0$0300a8c0@danetech330ba4> <4149FF4E.2060004@tcq.net> <5.2.1.1.0.20040920164309.00ba4b60@pop.visi.com> <53830.67.109.198.6.1095720976.squirrel@67.109.198.6> Message-ID: <414F7132.6060704@ip-wizard.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cdf123 at cdf123.net Tue Sep 21 21:22:06 2004 From: cdf123 at cdf123.net (Chris Frederick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] taking advantage of smp Message-ID: <4150E1CE.5070705@cdf123.net> Hi all... I just got my dual Xeon system running, and I love it. I was wondering though if there are any applications that would benifit from compiling from source vs keeping the Mandrake pre-packaged ones. Mplayer comes to mind, and since the main cpu intensive task of this machine is dvdripping, maybe transcode might benifit from it. I was wondering if this matters all that much. And what other things can I do to take advantage of the dual cpu + hyperthreading (e.g. "make" vs "make -j")? Does anyone know some good sites on getting the most out of a smp system? Thanks all, Chris Frederick _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Mon Sep 20 23:58:27 2004 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200409210458.i8L4wRp00607@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Free Subject: This Distro Could Use YOUR Help Hey guys we're all about helping people out and I'm always on the look out to find those in need even if I can't help out with the coding part of it (cuz I'm not good at that yet! ) I can at least get the word out so someone who can help them might take interest. This was a post by the lead developer at Evil Entity: hello all...this is to invite anyone with coding skills to join our team. we need to work on some small proggies for DR-0.3 before we can release this puppy. the core developers are overwhelmed at the moment and could use a helping hand. if you have good python/c/ruby/bash (hell we aren't picky) skills please respond or meet with us on #evilentity on Freenode in IRC. Thanks CoolChEEze http://evilentity.com If you want to be a part of something that will help a lot of people, give them a hand! And with every new version you'll know that YOU contributed and that YOU helped it become a powerful and stable distro from it's fledgling beginnings. Thank you for your time. Draconian Seller Email address: darkfriend99 at yahoo dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at gmail.com Tue Sep 21 03:48:26 2004 From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? Message-ID: <32fd45370409210148543b8ee6@mail.gmail.com> I know SCLUG has it's installfest this weekend...it's a tad bit soon and a bit out of the way for me, so I was wondering what the plans were on the next installfest. I'm really fueled to go to one, as I just hit the last straw with MS. Namely XP SP2. But I digress. I'm personally looking at Debian, as I'd like to learn alot of the system's intricacies, but I don't have the time that I've heard Slack takes (plus I love the sound of apt-get) so that's my goal, and as always, I'll make sure to bring tons of extra stuff :) So who's got a place we can do it? I'd say we start ramping up for another one, as it's been a while. (That, and I had to show up late to the last one...didn't get Debian installed there :( ) That, and I'm not about to install Debian over dialup.... _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Tue Sep 21 08:23:51 2004 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200409211323.i8LDNpm07436@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Free Subject: misc. tech/nerd books http://tinyurl.com/6ctsy Seller Email address: sulrich at gmail dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mcnixon at gmail.com Tue Sep 21 09:21:27 2004 From: mcnixon at gmail.com (Mike Nixon) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? In-Reply-To: <32fd45370409210148543b8ee6@mail.gmail.com> References: <32fd45370409210148543b8ee6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm also interested in putting Debian on my machine (which has RH 8.0, but I haven't been able use the RedHat install lately, I don't remember if it was a password issue or if it was a problem detecting some hardware change). I'm using Grub to select between a few Windows versions, but if I want to use Linux I have been using Knoppix CD Mike Nixon On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 03:48:26 -0500, Keith Bachman wrote: > > I'm personally looking at Debian, as I'd like to learn alot of the > system's intricacies, but I don't have the time that I've heard Slack > takes (plus I love the sound of apt-get) so that's my goal, and as > always, I'll make sure to bring tons of extra stuff :) > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andyzib at gmail.com Tue Sep 21 16:21:37 2004 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? In-Reply-To: References: <32fd45370409210148543b8ee6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Debian isn't hard to install...really. :p Most people will tell you the Debian installer sucks. It doesn't. The default installer fills a very valid need: An installer that can handle all hardware architectures supported by Debian, be flexible on media type, and a list of other requirments. The mistake most people make (In my opinion!) when installing Debian with the default installer is to install packages. Every time I install a new machine, I just use the installer to get a booting extremely minimal Debian system. All it can really do is connect to the network and apt-get using dselect, aptitude, synaptic, or just apt-get install wever-it-is-I-want. That's all you need to get going. My opinion of course?some people might actually want to do some hardware automatic configuration?but why? You'll learn more about Linux if you figure out how to do it yourself! Anyway, if the default installer isn't your thing, check out all the ways you can install Debian here: http://www.linuxmafia.com/faq/Debian/installers.html What's stopping you from installing Debian? Surly you don't really need an install fest do you? Odds are you can get it working by the time an install fest rolls around, and by then you might even be able to help at the install fest! Do a little research, ask some questions to TCLUG, accept that every little thing like your sound card and wireless network might not work right away?but as long as you can get say, X and a network connection?you have a mass of tools available to try to figure out how to configure the rest of it. ;-) Take a deep breath, pick your installer, and have some fun with your PC! Good luck?we'll be lurking here. :D -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Sep 21 16:49:51 2004 From: smac at visi.com (smac@visi.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? In-Reply-To: References: <32fd45370409210148543b8ee6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1095803391.4150a1ff317d3@my.visi.com> I agree with all Andrew says, some folks just don't want to do that much research. They want to get the system up and running so they can use the computer for everyday stuff :-) I like a system with minimal stuff and have run several distributions this way. Debian is the easiest to get going and enhance, apt-get works very well. (Now I'm missing the text based games I love to play) I was privledged to receive some instruction on doing a base install using diskettes at an install fest. It was a great experience, that is what is so good about install fest's, the social interaction makes installing Linux MORE fun. Pizza and people is the best! I'm so busy with volenteer work I just don't have the time to spend working on a base machine. I guess I'll stick with my Fedora Core 1 and smile :-) Sam. Quoting Andrew Zbikowski : > Debian isn't hard to install...really. :p Most people will tell you > the Debian installer sucks. It doesn't. The default installer fills a > very valid need: An installer that can handle all hardware > architectures supported by Debian, be flexible on media type, and a > list of other requirments. > > The mistake most people make (In my opinion!) when installing Debian > with the default installer is to install packages. Every time I > install a new machine, I just use the installer to get a booting > extremely minimal Debian system. All it can really do is connect to > the network and apt-get using dselect, aptitude, synaptic, or just > apt-get install wever-it-is-I-want. That's all you need to get going. > My opinion of course???some people might actually want to do some > hardware automatic configuration???but why? You'll learn more about > Linux if you figure out how to do it yourself! > > Anyway, if the default installer isn't your thing, check out all the > ways you can install Debian here: > http://www.linuxmafia.com/faq/Debian/installers.html > > What's stopping you from installing Debian? Surly you don't really > need an install fest do you? Odds are you can get it working by the > time an install fest rolls around, and by then you might even be able > to help at the install fest! > > Do a little research, ask some questions to TCLUG, accept that every > little thing like your sound card and wireless network might not work > right away???but as long as you can get say, X and a network > connection???you have a mass of tools available to try to figure out how > to configure the rest of it. ;-) > > Take a deep breath, pick your installer, and have some fun with your PC! > > Good luck???we'll be lurking here. :D > > -- > Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us > A password is like your underwear; Change it > frequently, don't share it with others, and > don't ask to borrow someone else's. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com Tue Sep 21 16:58:37 2004 From: jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com (Jeff Rasmussen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? In-Reply-To: References: <32fd45370409210148543b8ee6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9d6c825304092114586ba0aef8@mail.gmail.com> Here is a better option for installing Debian with automatic configuration. This is the new beta installer and it uses discover and hotplug to autoconfigure the hardware. http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ Installing Debian is very different from Windows which means it is also very different from RedHat which tries to copy the Windows installer. Jeff Rasmussen On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:21:37 -0500, Andrew Zbikowski wrote: > Debian isn't hard to install...really. :p Most people will tell you > the Debian installer sucks. It doesn't. The default installer fills a > very valid need: An installer that can handle all hardware > architectures supported by Debian, be flexible on media type, and a > list of other requirments. > > The mistake most people make (In my opinion!) when installing Debian > with the default installer is to install packages. Every time I > install a new machine, I just use the installer to get a booting > extremely minimal Debian system. All it can really do is connect to > the network and apt-get using dselect, aptitude, synaptic, or just > apt-get install wever-it-is-I-want. That's all you need to get going. > My opinion of course?some people might actually want to do some > hardware automatic configuration?but why? You'll learn more about > Linux if you figure out how to do it yourself! > > Anyway, if the default installer isn't your thing, check out all the > ways you can install Debian here: > http://www.linuxmafia.com/faq/Debian/installers.html > > What's stopping you from installing Debian? Surly you don't really > need an install fest do you? Odds are you can get it working by the > time an install fest rolls around, and by then you might even be able > to help at the install fest! > > Do a little research, ask some questions to TCLUG, accept that every > little thing like your sound card and wireless network might not work > right away?but as long as you can get say, X and a network > connection?you have a mass of tools available to try to figure out how > to configure the rest of it. ;-) > > Take a deep breath, pick your installer, and have some fun with your PC! > > Good luck?we'll be lurking here. :D > > -- > Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us > A password is like your underwear; Change it > frequently, don't share it with others, and > don't ask to borrow someone else's. > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Jeff Rasmussen GPG public key 0x9686C12F _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at gmail.com Tue Sep 21 18:13:34 2004 From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? In-Reply-To: <9d6c825304092114586ba0aef8@mail.gmail.com> References: <32fd45370409210148543b8ee6@mail.gmail.com> <9d6c825304092114586ba0aef8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32fd45370409211613113c30f8@mail.gmail.com> I'm on dialup at home. So debian over the 'net's a no-go from there. I just started the .torrent downloads...that's gonna take a bit...13 CDs in all...even on a T1 at college... So we'll see. I'm certainly open to doing it myself, it's just installfests are best I think, because then I can get immediate response (with ~0 lag) instead of the mailing list, where it takes a whole 24 hours :) Plus, the pizza and atmosphere is always fun. On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:58:37 -0500, Jeff Rasmussen wrote: > Here is a better option for installing Debian with automatic > configuration. This is the new beta installer and it uses discover > and hotplug to autoconfigure the hardware. > > http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ > > Installing Debian is very different from Windows which means it is > also very different from RedHat which tries to copy the Windows > installer. > > Jeff Rasmussen > > > > On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:21:37 -0500, Andrew Zbikowski wrote: > > Debian isn't hard to install...really. :p Most people will tell you > > the Debian installer sucks. It doesn't. The default installer fills a > > very valid need: An installer that can handle all hardware > > architectures supported by Debian, be flexible on media type, and a > > list of other requirments. > > > > The mistake most people make (In my opinion!) when installing Debian > > with the default installer is to install packages. Every time I > > install a new machine, I just use the installer to get a booting > > extremely minimal Debian system. All it can really do is connect to > > the network and apt-get using dselect, aptitude, synaptic, or just > > apt-get install wever-it-is-I-want. That's all you need to get going. > > My opinion of course?some people might actually want to do some > > hardware automatic configuration?but why? You'll learn more about > > Linux if you figure out how to do it yourself! > > > > Anyway, if the default installer isn't your thing, check out all the > > ways you can install Debian here: > > http://www.linuxmafia.com/faq/Debian/installers.html > > > > What's stopping you from installing Debian? Surly you don't really > > need an install fest do you? Odds are you can get it working by the > > time an install fest rolls around, and by then you might even be able > > to help at the install fest! > > > > Do a little research, ask some questions to TCLUG, accept that every > > little thing like your sound card and wireless network might not work > > right away?but as long as you can get say, X and a network > > connection?you have a mass of tools available to try to figure out how > > to configure the rest of it. ;-) > > > > Take a deep breath, pick your installer, and have some fun with your PC! > > > > Good luck?we'll be lurking here. :D > > > > -- > > Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us > > A password is like your underwear; Change it > > frequently, don't share it with others, and > > don't ask to borrow someone else's. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -- > Jeff Rasmussen > GPG public key 0x9686C12F > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andyzib at gmail.com Tue Sep 21 21:45:17 2004 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? In-Reply-To: <32fd45370409211613113c30f8@mail.gmail.com> References: <32fd45370409210148543b8ee6@mail.gmail.com> <9d6c825304092114586ba0aef8@mail.gmail.com> <32fd45370409211613113c30f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Debian over the net is a no go over dial-up?!? *gets out cane, hunches back* When I was your age, I installed Debian over a 28.8 modem. Kids these days!!! Errr...yeah. Anyway...if I had to pick a distro to install over a modem, Debian would be it. ISOs...blah who needs em? You haven't lived until you've installed debian from floppies! (I did the entire base off floppies once...I think it took around 20...) Anyway, in all honesty all you need to get Debian firing is 3 Floppies (rescue, root, drivers) Assuming that you've got a supported modem or ethernet card. (might need one of the bigger floppy sets for ppp...I don't recall exactly.) Once you've got even that much of a minimul Debian system, you can indeed download the base tgz, and your up and running and ready to fire up apt-get, dselect, or even tasksel for the lazy. Depending on how many packages you need to get going...you can get away with 100mb. (xserver, mozilla, a light window manager like blackbox, irc client...something to read mail, new kernel.) After that spend some time in dselect, aptitude, tasksel, whatever, add a cron job to run apt-get -dy dselect-upgrade at like 2am, and by the time you get home from work everything should be downloaded. Downloading and burning the Debian ISO's is a waste of time and CDRs. Do it over the net... OK, so on dial-up you might want to install the basics off a CDrom. But you're not going to get away with saying installing Debian over a modem is not an option...cause it is. Been there, done that. -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Tue Sep 21 22:17:51 2004 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? In-Reply-To: References: <32fd45370409210148543b8ee6@mail.gmail.com> <9d6c825304092114586ba0aef8@mail.gmail.com> <32fd45370409211613113c30f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2749.192.168.100.2.1095823071.squirrel@192.168.100.2> The problem is: when you had a 28.8 modem in its day, it WAS fast! Now however... ;) > Debian over the net is a no go over dial-up?!? > > *gets out cane, hunches back* > > When I was your age, I installed Debian over a 28.8 modem. Kids these > days!!! > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at gmail.com Tue Sep 21 22:32:56 2004 From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? In-Reply-To: <2749.192.168.100.2.1095823071.squirrel@192.168.100.2> References: <32fd45370409210148543b8ee6@mail.gmail.com> <9d6c825304092114586ba0aef8@mail.gmail.com> <32fd45370409211613113c30f8@mail.gmail.com> <2749.192.168.100.2.1095823071.squirrel@192.168.100.2> Message-ID: <32fd453704092120323fa448c1@mail.gmail.com> I'm for sure interested in the latest Debian. I was going to get started tonight, but as Garrett knows, the connection at Brown was crappy, and I could only get the netinstall iso at about 10KB/second. That's on our T1. how crappy. They should mirror that file. So tommorow I'll have it, and tommorow night I shall begin the install. First, get a basic system up, then GUI, and then start doing packages as I have time/bandwidth. Hopefully get onto a highspeed system before too long....probably next quarter, if need be, when we move on to our final project *grins* So yeah, I'll probably just do it at school tommorow via my laptop or somethin...crossover and then through the wireless, get the basics up. :) (Yes, I'll finish the lab as well Garrett.) On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:17:51 -0500 (CDT), Garrett Krueger wrote: > The problem is: when you had a 28.8 modem in its day, it WAS fast! Now > however... ;) > > > Debian over the net is a no go over dial-up?!? > > > > *gets out cane, hunches back* > > > > When I was your age, I installed Debian over a 28.8 modem. Kids these > > days!!! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From markdeb.browne at comcast.net Tue Sep 21 23:15:07 2004 From: markdeb.browne at comcast.net (Mark Browne) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? In-Reply-To: <2749.192.168.100.2.1095823071.squirrel@192.168.100.2> Message-ID: Hmmm, 28.8K baud? I can remember when my 300 baud Carterphone modem was styling! UNIX was just starting to make the rounds - the first versions were showing up at the UofM. The hot new item was this microcomputer thingy . . . A few hardy type were actually building their own hardware out of chips; I wire-wrapped my own SC/MP micro and tried to figure out what to do with it. The focus for many in this crowd was tiny basic in 4K. The place were I learned about the inner working of an interpreter core was DDJ. The very crude star-trek game would actually run in some of the available hardware. My Lancaster TV-typewriter was the user interface. The 32 x 16 character display seemed pretty good at the time. A popular input device was the Proko paper tape reader; you pulled the tape past the photodiodes by hand. Of course, getting stuff punched was the trick, that's where the modem came in. You could send your stuff to someone who had a TTY and modem. Barring any bad data transmission, the TTY would punch a permanent copy as it received the data. A few folks in the twin cities had personal DEC hardware (mostly PDP 8) and were the envy of all. As I recall, a PDP11 with an RK05 disk pack and a kelly-green screen Tektronix terminal was unbelievable luxury. We used them at work I fantasized about someday owning a machine as cool as those. Now those were the days! Mark Browne -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Garrett Krueger Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 9:18 PM To: Andrew Zbikowski; TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? The problem is: when you had a 28.8 modem in its day, it WAS fast! Now however... ;) > Debian over the net is a no go over dial-up?!? > > *gets out cane, hunches back* > > When I was your age, I installed Debian over a 28.8 modem. Kids these > days!!! > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at gmail.com Tue Sep 21 23:20:44 2004 From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? In-Reply-To: <32fd453704092120323fa448c1@mail.gmail.com> References: <32fd45370409210148543b8ee6@mail.gmail.com> <9d6c825304092114586ba0aef8@mail.gmail.com> <32fd45370409211613113c30f8@mail.gmail.com> <2749.192.168.100.2.1095823071.squirrel@192.168.100.2> <32fd453704092120323fa448c1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32fd4537040921212019bf2ef3@mail.gmail.com> Managed to start the download here at home, on dialup...pulling at a nice sold 6-7KB/second....looks like I may get started tonight after all :) (In 4 hours or so....) On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:32:56 -0500, Keith Bachman wrote: > I'm for sure interested in the latest Debian. I was going to get > started tonight, but as Garrett knows, the connection at Brown was > crappy, and I could only get the netinstall iso at about 10KB/second. > That's on our T1. how crappy. They should mirror that file. So > tommorow I'll have it, and tommorow night I shall begin the install. > First, get a basic system up, then GUI, and then start doing packages > as I have time/bandwidth. Hopefully get onto a highspeed system > before too long....probably next quarter, if need be, when we move on > to our final project *grins* > > So yeah, I'll probably just do it at school tommorow via my laptop or > somethin...crossover and then through the wireless, get the basics up. > :) (Yes, I'll finish the lab as well Garrett.) > > > > > On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:17:51 -0500 (CDT), Garrett Krueger > wrote: > > The problem is: when you had a 28.8 modem in its day, it WAS fast! Now > > however... ;) > > > > > Debian over the net is a no go over dial-up?!? > > > > > > *gets out cane, hunches back* > > > > > > When I was your age, I installed Debian over a 28.8 modem. Kids these > > > days!!! > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrisc at chris.org Wed Sep 22 08:34:28 2004 From: chrisc at chris.org (Chris Cox, N0UK) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? In-Reply-To: <2749.192.168.100.2.1095823071.squirrel@192.168.100.2> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Sep 2004, Garrett Krueger wrote: > The problem is: when you had a 28.8 modem in its day, it WAS fast! Now > however... ;) A 28.8kb modem is just as fast today as it was 8 years ago. -- 73 Chris Cox N0UK, G4JEC, ex-AB0CN, ex-G8PTC RNARS #1157 EN34jv33 chrisc@Chris.Org Ping Jockey's do it until they HEAR the burn... WWW Home Page: http://WWW.Chris.Org/ http://www.pingjockey.net Cultural observation: Europeans think 100 miles is a long way; Americans think 100 years is a long time! Keep your off-road vehicle off the road. http://www.mini2.com/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Wed Sep 22 08:56:04 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > A 28.8kb modem is just as fast today as it was 8 years ago. > -- It's all perception: In 1996 it would only take me 6 hours to fill my 80M drive with ANSI porn from the local BBS, at 28.8k (Yes, 80M is a bit small by 1996 standards, but that's what I had.) In 2004 it would take me 257 days to fill an 80G drive with usenet porn at 28.8. 260 days if you count missed multiparts and dropped articles. In 1996, I could download the latest and greatest game (like the latest Trade Wars 2002 v2 @ 1.5M) in 7 minutes at 28.8 In 2004, it would take more than 8 days to download the 4 CD's for Doom 3 (IIRC, my bro just bought it and it was 4 CD's) at 28.8 Poe-tay-toh, Poe-tah-toh :) But I do remember getting that brand new 14.4 sportster. And my wife remembers buying said sportster from me, the day we met. That's right, I'm such a dork that I met my wife by selling her a modem for $20. I'm the Don Juan of demodulators. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Sep 22 09:45:33 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? In-Reply-To: <32fd45370409211613113c30f8@mail.gmail.com> References: <32fd45370409210148543b8ee6@mail.gmail.com> <9d6c825304092114586ba0aef8@mail.gmail.com> <32fd45370409211613113c30f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040922144533.GA11983@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cxobert at goldengate.net Wed Sep 22 10:20:47 2004 From: cxobert at goldengate.net (Charlie Obert) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re installing Debian Sarge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4151984F.5000200@goldengate.net> Since people seem to be talking about Debian.... I'm going to want to check out Sarge with the new release-candidate installer for X86. My question - should I just go ahead, or would it be preferable to wait for Sarge going to release/stable a little later this year? Any strong opinions, gentle(wo)men? Cheers, Charlie Obert _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Wed Sep 22 10:37:30 2004 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IPCop not getting host names Message-ID: <41519C3A.5050607@eworld3.net> I am trying to get my IPCop box working. It is doing DHCP but it does not seem to be getting the host names from the machines on my network. For example, I have a debian (woody) box whose hosts file has this entry: 127.0.0.1 installfest localhost but when I try to see if DNS is working: installfest:~# host installfest Host installfest not found 5(REFUSED) installfest:~# telnet Firemouth telnnet: could not resolve Firemouth/telnet: Temporary failure in name resolution Firemouth is another machine with similar hosts file entry. I looked at the IPCop FAQ pages but they were not helpful. I'm wondering if some port has to be open or some daemon has to be running to provide the host name when DHCP runs. BTW all of this is in the Green. -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrisc at chris.org Wed Sep 22 11:11:23 2004 From: chrisc at chris.org (Chris Cox, N0UK) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > But I do remember getting that brand new 14.4 sportster. And my wife > remembers buying said sportster from me, the day we met. That's right, > I'm such a dork that I met my wife by selling her a modem for $20. I'm > the Don Juan of demodulators. Now that's class! The Don Juan of demodulators - excellent! -- 73 Chris Cox N0UK, G4JEC, ex-AB0CN, ex-G8PTC RNARS #1157 EN34jv33 chrisc@Chris.Org Ping Jockey's do it until they HEAR the burn... WWW Home Page: http://WWW.Chris.Org/ http://www.pingjockey.net Cultural observation: Europeans think 100 miles is a long way; Americans think 100 years is a long time! Keep your off-road vehicle off the road. http://www.mini2.com/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 11:27:29 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SVGALIB for FC2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <914f813c04092209273928f9cf@mail.gmail.com> Download the ebuild. It is a text file, and in it will be shown the URLs for each patch applied to the package. On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 21:50:38 -0500 (CDT), Gerry wrote: > I've been trying to get svgalib working on a Fedora Core 2 system. It doesn't > build the svgalib_helper module right when compiling from source > (svgalib-1.9.19). > > Interestingly enough, I find mention of getting it working on a 2.6 kernel in > the Gentoo stuff, but I can't figure out how to get to that source. Can some > kind gentoo user help me extract what I need? It's the patches referred to in > the ebuild files at > http://www.gentoo-portage.com/browse-program.php?program=2748 > > Is there any way to get to the patches directly? > Thanks, > Gerry > > -- > Gerry Skerbitz > gsker@comcast.net > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- John T. Hoffoss _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jsievert at jsievert.net Wed Sep 22 11:46:32 2004 From: jsievert at jsievert.net (Jason Sievert) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backup Message-ID: <1095871592.13094.11.camel@jslaptop> Hey guys, I need some advice on doing a backup for our lab server. I have about 140GB of data that I would like to backup to a SNAP NAS that we have laying around. I am running Gentoo on the server if that makes a difference. Well I was thinking about doing a simple tar but I was wondering if their was anything else out their that might make my life easier. My boss is hoping for something that can do basic incrementals. Any thought or experiences? Jason _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Sep 22 12:10:11 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backup In-Reply-To: <1095871592.13094.11.camel@jslaptop> References: <1095871592.13094.11.camel@jslaptop> Message-ID: <20040922171011.GC11983@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Sep 22 12:03:16 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re installing Debian Sarge In-Reply-To: <4151984F.5000200@goldengate.net> References: <4151984F.5000200@goldengate.net> Message-ID: <20040922170316.GB11983@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jradocay at scholarshipamerica.org Wed Sep 22 12:16:23 2004 From: jradocay at scholarshipamerica.org (Jason Radocay) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backup Message-ID: <8DDE1AB31DDD2D47A222458FCE2B2E012B1289@edinadc1.samn.local> I've had great results using rsnapshot. http://www.rsnapshot.org/ Jason -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org on behalf of Jason Sievert Sent: Wed 9/22/2004 11:46 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: [TCLUG] Backup Hey guys, I need some advice on doing a backup for our lab server. I have about 140GB of data that I would like to backup to a SNAP NAS that we have laying around. I am running Gentoo on the server if that makes a difference. Well I was thinking about doing a simple tar but I was wondering if their was anything else out their that might make my life easier. My boss is hoping for something that can do basic incrementals. Any thought or experiences? Jason _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2879 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20040922/fb9305fd/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Wed Sep 22 12:28:53 2004 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backup In-Reply-To: <1095871592.13094.11.camel@jslaptop> References: <1095871592.13094.11.camel@jslaptop> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Sep 2004, Jason Sievert wrote: > Hey guys, I need some advice on doing a backup for our lab server. I > have about 140GB of data that I would like to backup to a SNAP NAS that > we have laying around. I am running Gentoo on the server if that makes > a difference. Well I was thinking about doing a simple tar but I was > wondering if their was anything else out their that might make my life > easier. My boss is hoping for something that can do basic incrementals. > Any thought or experiences? BackupPC rules. http://backuppc.sourceforge.net/ It's packaged in Debian; not sure about Gentoo, but I'd imagine it's there. The advantages of BackupPC really come when backing up multiple machines (any identical files will automatically be hardlinked), but it should work just fine for what you want to do, too. It supports incremental and such out of the box. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Wed Sep 22 12:45:05 2004 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backup In-Reply-To: <20040922171011.GC11983@wookimus.net> References: <1095871592.13094.11.camel@jslaptop> <20040922171011.GC11983@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20040922174505.GA3520@refried.org> On Wed, Sep 22, 2004 at 12:10:11PM -0500, Chad Walstrom wrote: > Another one to look at is bacula (http://www.bacula.org). You need a > RDBMS database installed, such as PostgreSQL or MySQL. It has some nice Whenever I hear something requires MySQL or PostgreSQL, I wonder if anyone has gotten it working with SQLite. The Bacula User's Guide states that is does. Cool! FYI, SQLite is a SQL server in a library. SQLite doesn't require a daemon running at all times, nor any administrative overhead that comes with MySQL or PostgreSQL. Plus it's public domain so it fits really well into embedded applications that need the power of SQL. So if you think Bacula is cool, but don't want to run PostgreSQL or MySQL, you have the option of SQLite. :) Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 14:15:31 2004 From: jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com (Jeff Rasmussen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? In-Reply-To: <32fd453704092120323fa448c1@mail.gmail.com> References: <32fd45370409210148543b8ee6@mail.gmail.com> <9d6c825304092114586ba0aef8@mail.gmail.com> <32fd45370409211613113c30f8@mail.gmail.com> <2749.192.168.100.2.1095823071.squirrel@192.168.100.2> <32fd453704092120323fa448c1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9d6c825304092212154d709301@mail.gmail.com> I'm willing to share a Debian testing CD or net minimal CD. I have both around here somewhere. I've installed Debian over a dial-up without too much problem. I used to use a fast work connection to download ISOs but then figured out that Debian moves too fast to burn onto CDs. Especially under the unstable branch. My home PC was installed over a dial-up and it took two 10 hour nights to download the GUI. Luckily, it wasn't my first Debian install. Currently, I have a cron job to apt-rsync. Which is a batch script that combines apt and rsync http://home.tiscali.cz:8080/~cz210552/aptrsync.html This greatly speeds up the package index download. Apparently the rest of Debian is compressed so that rsync doesn't improve performance. Then the cron job will download the updates. I don't always have my computer on overnight and every 2 weeks it may take me more than 10 hours to download the updates. MSN cuts me off after 10 hours :) Under Windows I never hit the maximum. Jeff Rasmussen On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:32:56 -0500, Keith Bachman wrote: > I'm for sure interested in the latest Debian. I was going to get > started tonight, but as Garrett knows, the connection at Brown was > crappy, and I could only get the netinstall iso at about 10KB/second. > That's on our T1. how crappy. They should mirror that file. So > tommorow I'll have it, and tommorow night I shall begin the install. > First, get a basic system up, then GUI, and then start doing packages > as I have time/bandwidth. Hopefully get onto a highspeed system > before too long....probably next quarter, if need be, when we move on > to our final project *grins* > > So yeah, I'll probably just do it at school tommorow via my laptop or > somethin...crossover and then through the wireless, get the basics up. > :) (Yes, I'll finish the lab as well Garrett.) > > On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:17:51 -0500 (CDT), Garrett Krueger > > > wrote: > > The problem is: when you had a 28.8 modem in its day, it WAS fast! Now > > however... ;) > > > > > Debian over the net is a no go over dial-up?!? > > > > > > *gets out cane, hunches back* > > > > > > When I was your age, I installed Debian over a 28.8 modem. Kids these > > > days!!! > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Jeff Rasmussen GPG public key 0x9686C12F _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 14:22:30 2004 From: jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com (Jeff Rasmussen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re installing Debian Sarge In-Reply-To: <20040922170316.GB11983@wookimus.net> References: <4151984F.5000200@goldengate.net> <20040922170316.GB11983@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <9d6c825304092212222db4d81@mail.gmail.com> I second that. Debian provides a clear upgrade path, so after installation you can continue watching for both security and stability updates. You might want to be careful adding this to any production servers but workstations should be fine. Jeff Rasmussen On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 12:03:16 -0500, Chad Walstrom wrote: > Charlie Obert wrote: > > My question - should I just go ahead, or would it be preferable to > > wait for Sarge going to release/stable a little later this year? > > Just go ahead. The installer has been working well for the last few > months. I've installed a few machines with it at various stages during > its development. > > -- > Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ > assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > -- Jeff Rasmussen GPG public key 0x9686C12F _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From eh at constantdata.com Wed Sep 22 14:21:16 2004 From: eh at constantdata.com (El Haddi.) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backup In-Reply-To: <1095871592.13094.11.camel@jslaptop> Message-ID: Take a look at Constant Data Replicator. It allows you to replicate data changes in real time from one to many hosts or many hosts to one. A free trial download is available. Go to http://www.constantdata.com/products/download.php and select CR/DB. Thanks. --El Haddi Constant Data, Inc. www.constantdata.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 14:35:52 2004 From: jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com (Jeff Rasmussen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backup In-Reply-To: References: <1095871592.13094.11.camel@jslaptop> Message-ID: <9d6c825304092212355376458@mail.gmail.com> I wanted to back up Windows servers to a Linux box using either BackupPC or Bacula. Bacula has a Windows client but cannot fix the locked file issues with Windows. BackupPC doesn't have a network protocol and would have to use samba. My plan was to use ntbackup to create local files of either the entire system or just the system state and backing up that file across the network. Since either system can work with the ntbackup file, I thought BackupPC looked better because it takes advantage of the rsync network savings. Although I've had issues relying on Windows samba in the past. Also, depending on the type of compression and composition of the backup file rsync may or may not help with network traffic. Anyone else had a chance to test this out or shed any light? Jeff Rasmussen On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 12:28:53 -0500 (CDT), Nate Carlson wrote: > On Wed, 22 Sep 2004, Jason Sievert wrote: > > Hey guys, I need some advice on doing a backup for our lab server. I > > have about 140GB of data that I would like to backup to a SNAP NAS that > > we have laying around. I am running Gentoo on the server if that makes > > a difference. Well I was thinking about doing a simple tar but I was > > wondering if their was anything else out their that might make my life > > easier. My boss is hoping for something that can do basic incrementals. > > Any thought or experiences? > > BackupPC rules. > > http://backuppc.sourceforge.net/ > > It's packaged in Debian; not sure about Gentoo, but I'd imagine it's > there. > > The advantages of BackupPC really come when backing up multiple machines > (any identical files will automatically be hardlinked), but it should work > just fine for what you want to do, too. It supports incremental and such > out of the box. > > -- > Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Jeff Rasmussen GPG public key 0x9686C12F _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Wed Sep 22 15:12:07 2004 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Sep 2004, El Haddi. wrote: > Take a look at Constant Data Replicator. It allows you to replicate data > changes in real time from one to many hosts or many hosts to one. A > free trial download is available. Go to > http://www.constantdata.com/products/download.php and select CR/DB. So what advantages does this have over DRBD? Does it support r/w to the same filesystem on multiple notes simultaneously? That'd be a nifty feature that DRBD doesn't have a way of offering yet. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andyzib at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 16:10:10 2004 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re installing Debian Sarge In-Reply-To: <9d6c825304092212222db4d81@mail.gmail.com> References: <4151984F.5000200@goldengate.net> <20040922170316.GB11983@wookimus.net> <9d6c825304092212222db4d81@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I've enven used the sarge installer on Aplha machies. Works great. My roomate has some issues with the RC installer, but we both wrote that off because the hardware we were dealing with has always been flaky at best. ;-) -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From eric at lgthouse.com Wed Sep 22 16:31:17 2004 From: eric at lgthouse.com (Eric Peterson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backup In-Reply-To: <20040922171011.GC11983@wookimus.net> References: <1095871592.13094.11.camel@jslaptop> <20040922171011.GC11983@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <4266.160.94.198.186.1095888677.squirrel@160.94.198.186> Chad Walstrom wrote: > Another one to look at is bacula (http://www.bacula.org). You need a > RDBMS database installed, such as PostgreSQL or MySQL. It has some nice > graphical and command-line utilities and clients for Windows and Mac OS > X. Worth a look if you need to backup many machines. I second bacula. I've been using it for around 6 months and it has worked very well for tapeless backups. It was easy to setup, it has nice tools to work with, and I've had no problems as of yet. I also like the fact that you can customize the way it names your backup files. Makes it easier to verify what was done when. If you're curious, I'm backing up around 15 windows desktops and one SuSE server which is 15 more machines than you need, but you get the picture... it works! You can also setup external path files that the director reads when iniating a job so that you can add files to be backed up on the fly by adding them to the path file. No need to restart the daemon to add files to a particular backup. Not sure if Amanda does this? Also, it works well with Windows and Linux. It's very cool IMHO that they're using the WxWidgets for their client GUIs. I love when software works well and looks good across multiple OS. Sorry for the long reply, but I had to give bacula a good plug. -Eric _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 16:45:32 2004 From: jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com (Jeff Rasmussen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backup In-Reply-To: <4266.160.94.198.186.1095888677.squirrel@160.94.198.186> References: <1095871592.13094.11.camel@jslaptop> <20040922171011.GC11983@wookimus.net> <4266.160.94.198.186.1095888677.squirrel@160.94.198.186> Message-ID: <9d6c825304092214451e823dbe@mail.gmail.com> On the windows machines, how do you deal with locked files? Are you backing up the system state or just home directories? Jeff Rasmussen On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 16:31:17 -0500 (CDT), Eric Peterson wrote: > Chad Walstrom wrote: > > Another one to look at is bacula (http://www.bacula.org). You need a > > RDBMS database installed, such as PostgreSQL or MySQL. It has some nice > > graphical and command-line utilities and clients for Windows and Mac OS > > X. Worth a look if you need to backup many machines. > > I second bacula. I've been using it for around 6 months and it has worked > very well for tapeless backups. It was easy to setup, it has nice tools > to work with, and I've had no problems as of yet. I also like the fact > that you can customize the way it names your backup files. Makes it > easier to verify what was done when. > > If you're curious, I'm backing up around 15 windows desktops and one SuSE > server which is 15 more machines than you need, but you get the picture... > it works! > > You can also setup external path files that the director reads when > iniating a job so that you can add files to be backed up on the fly by > adding them to the path file. No need to restart the daemon to add files > to a particular backup. Not sure if Amanda does this? > > Also, it works well with Windows and Linux. It's very cool IMHO that > they're using the WxWidgets for their client GUIs. I love when software > works well and looks good across multiple OS. > > Sorry for the long reply, but I had to give bacula a good plug. > > -Eric > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Jeff Rasmussen GPG public key 0x9686C12F _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andyzib at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 16:44:39 2004 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backup In-Reply-To: <4266.160.94.198.186.1095888677.squirrel@160.94.198.186> References: <1095871592.13094.11.camel@jslaptop> <20040922171011.GC11983@wookimus.net> <4266.160.94.198.186.1095888677.squirrel@160.94.198.186> Message-ID: With bacula, does it write directly to the disk in it's own format...or does is just dump stuff to a directory? I'm working mainly in a windows shop, so our backup system is Linux based. Currently I just tar up the important parts and dump them on a windows share via smbclient. The windows backup server doens't have any problem backing up the tarballs. If bacula can function as a drop in replacment for that hack...I'm sold. ;) -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andyzib at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 16:58:44 2004 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backup In-Reply-To: <9d6c825304092214451e823dbe@mail.gmail.com> References: <1095871592.13094.11.camel@jslaptop> <20040922171011.GC11983@wookimus.net> <4266.160.94.198.186.1095888677.squirrel@160.94.198.186> <9d6c825304092214451e823dbe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Not looking to backup Windows machines...thos backup via Veritas. The linux machine tars itself and dumps the tarfiles to the windows share so they can be backed up by backup exec. Veritas deals with locked files on the winders boxes. For Linux, it is what it is and what it is is better than nothing. Always room for improvment. :D -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From eh at constantdata.com Wed Sep 22 17:06:11 2004 From: eh at constantdata.com (El Haddi.) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Sep 2004, Nate Carlson wrote: > So what advantages does this have over DRBD? > > Does it support r/w to the same filesystem on multiple notes > simultaneously? That'd be a nifty feature that DRBD doesn't have a way of > offering yet. Constant Data Replicator is not a clusterd file system. But it has several advantages over drdb. a. Full access to the data on the destination system(s). b. Handling of network outages and faults: Constant Replicator journals data changes. It does not require a full resync in case of a fault. drdb is going to require a full resync. c. Constant Data replicator has unique network transport technology and compression making it work well over high latency, long distances d. Encryption (in 3.3) e. One host to many support rather than 1 to 1 only handles intermittent server outages to resume without resync...good for guaranteed real-time data distribution f. Many to one host support for remote office or backup consolidation g. Byte/file level replication; not block level h. Ability to select filesystem objects to replicate based on regular expressions and filesystem permissions, or replication of different data sets from the same source filesystem to different paths on the destination server. i. Cross-platform replication: useful for migration, consolidation (ie. Solaris -> Linux, preserving POSIX ACLs). j. Adds long distance capabilities to clustered file systems like GFS. k. Works with cluster managers but doesn't require one. You can find more info on the web site. Try it free, you will be the judge! --El Haddi Constant Data, Inc. www.constantdata.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Sep 22 17:36:59 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backup In-Reply-To: References: <1095871592.13094.11.camel@jslaptop> <20040922171011.GC11983@wookimus.net> <4266.160.94.198.186.1095888677.squirrel@160.94.198.186> Message-ID: <20040922223659.GS11983@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From electrum at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 18:25:50 2004 From: electrum at gmail.com (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <853e1ecc04092216256bad4b37@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 08:56:04 -0500 (CDT), Adam Maloney wrote: > In 1996, I could download the latest and greatest game (like the latest > Trade Wars 2002 v2 @ 1.5M) in 7 minutes at 28.8 I know where you are coming from, as I was playing TW 2002 on BBSs on a 486 with a 14.4 modem in 1996. But the latest and greatest games in 1996 were Duke Nukem 3D and later Quake. Ah, those were the days... -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jim at herrick.net Thu Sep 23 04:09:26 2004 From: jim at herrick.net (Jim Herrick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? References: <853e1ecc04092216256bad4b37@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <05cd01c4a14d$081e1740$73252893@FUNA08205SCN402> Anyone participate in TW games anymore? I'd like to, if I knew some of the dudes. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Phillips" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, 23 September, 2004 01:25 Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? > On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 08:56:04 -0500 (CDT), Adam Maloney wrote: > > In 1996, I could download the latest and greatest game (like the latest > > Trade Wars 2002 v2 @ 1.5M) in 7 minutes at 28.8 > > I know where you are coming from, as I was playing TW 2002 on BBSs on > a 486 with a 14.4 modem in 1996. But the latest and greatest games in > 1996 were Duke Nukem 3D and later Quake. Ah, those were the days... > > -- > David Phillips > http://david.acz.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at joshwelch.com Thu Sep 23 08:11:33 2004 From: tclug at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re installing Debian Sarge In-Reply-To: <4151984F.5000200@goldengate.net> References: <4151984F.5000200@goldengate.net> Message-ID: <4152CB85.7040607@joshwelch.com> Charlie Obert wrote: > Since people seem to be talking about Debian.... > > I'm going to want to check out Sarge with the new release-candidate > installer for X86. > > My question - should I just go ahead, or would it be preferable to wait > for Sarge going to release/stable a little later this year? > > Any strong opinions, gentle(wo)men? > > Cheers, > > Charlie Obert > I've installed sarge on my laptop, so far so good. It's considered a testing release, but seems pretty good for home use so far. I'm new to debian, and it seemed like sarge's installer was a lot easier to use than woody's. Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lists at gahlon.com Thu Sep 23 08:17:58 2004 From: lists at gahlon.com (Christopher A. Gahlon) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? In-Reply-To: <05cd01c4a14d$081e1740$73252893@FUNA08205SCN402> References: <853e1ecc04092216256bad4b37@mail.gmail.com> <05cd01c4a14d$081e1740$73252893@FUNA08205SCN402> Message-ID: <200409230817.59500.lists@gahlon.com> On Thursday 23 September 2004 04:09, Jim Herrick wrote: > Anyone participate in TW games anymore? I'd like to, if I knew > some of the dudes. I downloaded the 30 day demo last night and the fond memories came flooding back. I'd love to play again. Unless someone knows of a server to play on I was thinking of putting up a node to play. Does anyone know of a server? If not who would be interested in playing if a node was made available? BTW, it runs great on linux using dosemu. Even the DPMI version worked. http://www.dosemu.org/ -- Christopher A. Gahlon There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those that understand binary and those that don't. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Thu Sep 23 08:11:48 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:50 2005 Subject: OT TradeWars (was [TCLUG] Next Installfest?) In-Reply-To: <05cd01c4a14d$081e1740$73252893@FUNA08205SCN402> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Sep 2004, Jim Herrick wrote: > Anyone participate in TW games anymore? I'd like to, if I knew some of the > dudes. I was playing, about 2 years ago, on a telnet board that I found. But one day I couldn't connect, and never saw them again. I miss dumping loads of people into space to bring my alignment down... Unknown Uses for Perl #25813: Sector Mapping in TW Made a typescript of CIM while in the game. Read sector data into Perl. Wrote a quick-and-dirty to find a largish dead-end cluster... If I ever have time to get into it again, I'll write a perl TW helper program to do menial tasks like finding port pairs and trading the heck out of them. I still have a license for v2. And I can confirm it does work under DosEmu. Unfortunately I don't have the time to play it right now, or I'd set it up. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Sep 23 08:27:51 2004 From: smac at visi.com (smac@visi.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re installing Debian Sarge In-Reply-To: <4152CB85.7040607@joshwelch.com> References: <4151984F.5000200@goldengate.net> <4152CB85.7040607@joshwelch.com> Message-ID: <1095946071.4152cf578065c@my.visi.com> The Debian test releases for home use are fine for anyone. I wouldn't put them in a production "business" environment, that would be true for any OS. Sam. Quoting Josh Welch : > Charlie Obert wrote: > > Since people seem to be talking about Debian.... > > > > I'm going to want to check out Sarge with the new release-candidate > > installer for X86. > > > > My question - should I just go ahead, or would it be preferable to wait > > for Sarge going to release/stable a little later this year? > > > > Any strong opinions, gentle(wo)men? > > > > Cheers, > > > > Charlie Obert > > > > I've installed sarge on my laptop, so far so good. It's considered a > testing release, but seems pretty good for home use so far. I'm new to > debian, and it seemed like sarge's installer was a lot easier to use > than woody's. > > Josh > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From obelin23 at gmail.com Thu Sep 23 09:08:15 2004 From: obelin23 at gmail.com (Charlie O) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IPCop not getting host names In-Reply-To: <41519C3A.5050607@eworld3.net> References: <41519C3A.5050607@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <72278d104092307086b9cd192@mail.gmail.com> Rick, I'm pretty sure that what you need to do, is associate specific mac addresses with specific ip addresses for ipcop to make the connection. Since IPCop is doing DHCP ( ie, assigning IP addresses), you can't guarantee that each machine will always get the same IP. You need static IP assignment for those machines, to associate them with a host name. Call up the IPCop admin page from one of the machines (http://ipcop:81 or https://ipcop:445 ), and go to the page that handles DHCP - you will need to sign in as admin to get there. There should be a field there to assign static IP addresses based on mac address. That should do it. Let me know if this helps. Cheers, Charlie Obert On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 10:37:30 -0500, Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > I am trying to get my IPCop box working. It is doing DHCP but it does > not seem to be getting the host names from the machines on my network. > > For example, I have a debian (woody) box whose hosts file has this entry: > 127.0.0.1 installfest localhost > > but when I try to see if DNS is working: > > installfest:~# host installfest > Host installfest not found 5(REFUSED) > installfest:~# telnet Firemouth > telnnet: could not resolve Firemouth/telnet: Temporary failure in name > resolution > > Firemouth is another machine with similar hosts file entry. > I looked at the IPCop FAQ pages but they were not helpful. > > I'm wondering if some port has to be open or some daemon has to be > running to provide the host name when DHCP runs. > > BTW all of this is in the Green. > -- > Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Sep 23 09:29:06 2004 From: smac at visi.com (smac@visi.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? In-Reply-To: <200409230817.59500.lists@gahlon.com> References: <853e1ecc04092216256bad4b37@mail.gmail.com> <05cd01c4a14d$081e1740$73252893@FUNA08205SCN402> <200409230817.59500.lists@gahlon.com> Message-ID: <1095949746.4152ddb24e9b1@my.visi.com> I just found out about this and you will all like this one. Computer Disposal "FREE" ! http://www.moea.state.mn.us/plugin/recyclers-household.cfm#events _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From electrum at gmail.com Thu Sep 23 09:51:47 2004 From: electrum at gmail.com (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? In-Reply-To: <200409230817.59500.lists@gahlon.com> References: <853e1ecc04092216256bad4b37@mail.gmail.com> <05cd01c4a14d$081e1740$73252893@FUNA08205SCN402> <200409230817.59500.lists@gahlon.com> Message-ID: <853e1ecc04092307514f1f8e25@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 08:17:58 -0500, Christopher A. Gahlon wrote: > Unless someone knows of a server to play on I was thinking of putting > up a node to play. Does anyone know of a server? http://www.thestardock.com/twgssearch/ > If not who would > be interested in playing if a node was made available? It sucks that TWGS only runs on Windows. Otherwise I'd gladly buy a copy and setup a game server. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jeremy at rosengren.org Thu Sep 23 10:41:38 2004 From: jeremy at rosengren.org (Jeremy Rosengren) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re installing Debian Sarge In-Reply-To: <1095946071.4152cf578065c@my.visi.com> References: <4151984F.5000200@goldengate.net> <4152CB85.7040607@joshwelch.com> <1095946071.4152cf578065c@my.visi.com> Message-ID: <4152EEB2.8050406@rosengren.org> smac@visi.com wrote: > The Debian test releases for home use are fine for anyone. I wouldn't put them > in a production "business" environment, that would be true for any OS. In a production "business" environment, you would run machines without OSes? ;) -- jeremy _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jsievert at jsievert.net Thu Sep 23 10:35:51 2004 From: jsievert at jsievert.net (Jason Sievert) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? In-Reply-To: <200409230817.59500.lists@gahlon.com> References: <853e1ecc04092216256bad4b37@mail.gmail.com> <05cd01c4a14d$081e1740$73252893@FUNA08205SCN402> <200409230817.59500.lists@gahlon.com> Message-ID: <1095953752.27803.1.camel@jslaptop> Does any body here remember the another BBS doors game of Legend of the Red Dragon? I never got into TW to much but slaying woodland creatures all night long was so much fun. Jason On Thu, 2004-09-23 at 08:17 -0500, Christopher A. Gahlon wrote: > On Thursday 23 September 2004 04:09, Jim Herrick wrote: > > Anyone participate in TW games anymore? I'd like to, if I knew > > some of the dudes. > > I downloaded the 30 day demo last night and the fond memories came > flooding back. I'd love to play again. > > Unless someone knows of a server to play on I was thinking of putting > up a node to play. Does anyone know of a server? If not who would > be interested in playing if a node was made available? > > BTW, it runs great on linux using dosemu. > Even the DPMI version worked. > > http://www.dosemu.org/ > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rbentz at dunwoody.edu Thu Sep 23 10:56:09 2004 From: rbentz at dunwoody.edu (rbentz@dunwoody.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IPCop not getting host names Message-ID: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD039C43F1@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us> Eric, Are the other machines Windows/Linux? Windows clients support DDNS, my thought is they would update the IPCop server. Do you or anyone in the list know if IPcop supports dynamic updating of hostnames? --Rob > I am trying to get my IPCop box working. It is doing DHCP but it does > not seem to be getting the host names from the machines on my network. > > For example, I have a debian (woody) box whose hosts file has this entry: > 127.0.0.1 installfest localhost > > but when I try to see if DNS is working: > > installfest:~# host installfest > Host installfest not found 5(REFUSED) > installfest:~# telnet Firemouth > telnnet: could not resolve Firemouth/telnet: Temporary failure in name > resolution > > Firemouth is another machine with similar hosts file entry. > I looked at the IPCop FAQ pages but they were not helpful. > > I'm wondering if some port has to be open or some daemon has to be > running to provide the host name when DHCP runs. > > BTW all of this is in the Green. > -- > Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Thu Sep 23 11:19:12 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? In-Reply-To: <1095953752.27803.1.camel@jslaptop> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Sep 2004, Jason Sievert wrote: > Does any body here remember the another BBS doors game of Legend of the > Red Dragon? I never got into TW to much but slaying woodland creatures > all night long was so much fun. > Of course! Another staple of the BBS days. There was a sourceforge project called DROL that was going to clone LORD, but I think it died. I remember looking at it a couple of years ago and it looks like Seth was still maintaining it. And I did find one place that had their own unix-based implementation of it on-line (for play, not download). I think I google'd around for LORD/unix combinations and stumbled across it. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jsievert at jsievert.net Thu Sep 23 11:41:23 2004 From: jsievert at jsievert.net (Jason Sievert) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1095957683.27803.3.camel@jslaptop> I found one last nigh. http://lord.nuklear.org/ Man i miss my modem, well sometimes I do. Jason On Thu, 2004-09-23 at 11:19 -0500, Adam Maloney wrote: > On Thu, 23 Sep 2004, Jason Sievert wrote: > > > Does any body here remember the another BBS doors game of Legend of the > > Red Dragon? I never got into TW to much but slaying woodland creatures > > all night long was so much fun. > > > > Of course! Another staple of the BBS days. > > There was a sourceforge project called DROL that was going to clone LORD, > but I think it died. I remember looking at it a couple of years ago and > it looks like Seth was still maintaining it. > > And I did find one place that had their own unix-based implementation of > it on-line (for play, not download). I think I google'd around for > LORD/unix combinations and stumbled across it. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Thu Sep 23 12:02:03 2004 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? Message-ID: <9E9331A490988842B21E7F7DC254C1D4F3A80D@BPEXU3VM2.andersencorp.com> There is legend of the green dragon. Quite a few sites to play online....lotgd.net is the main server for it, with links to plenty of other servers...available on sourceforge last I checked so you can run one yourself -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Adam Maloney Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:19 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? On Thu, 23 Sep 2004, Jason Sievert wrote: > Does any body here remember the another BBS doors game of Legend of > the Red Dragon? I never got into TW to much but slaying woodland > creatures all night long was so much fun. > Of course! Another staple of the BBS days. There was a sourceforge project called DROL that was going to clone LORD, but I think it died. I remember looking at it a couple of years ago and it looks like Seth was still maintaining it. And I did find one place that had their own unix-based implementation of it on-line (for play, not download). I think I google'd around for LORD/unix combinations and stumbled across it. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Thu Sep 23 11:50:07 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? In-Reply-To: <1095957683.27803.3.camel@jslaptop> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Sep 2004, Jason Sievert wrote: > I found one last nigh. http://lord.nuklear.org/ This is the one I was talking about, that had their own LORD clone, but aren't interested in releasing the code...for security reasons (argh). _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lists at gahlon.com Thu Sep 23 12:08:41 2004 From: lists at gahlon.com (Christopher A. Gahlon) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? In-Reply-To: <853e1ecc04092307514f1f8e25@mail.gmail.com> References: <200409230817.59500.lists@gahlon.com> <853e1ecc04092307514f1f8e25@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200409231208.41880.lists@gahlon.com> On Thursday 23 September 2004 09:51, David Phillips wrote: > It sucks that TWGS only runs on Windows. Otherwise I'd gladly buy > a copy and setup a game server. How about WINE? I just downloaded the demo but my tummy is rumbling... Has anyone tried it with WINE? If not I'll let you know how it went when I get back from lunch. -- Christopher A. Gahlon There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those that understand binary and those that don't. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drue at therub.org Thu Sep 23 12:16:34 2004 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? In-Reply-To: <9E9331A490988842B21E7F7DC254C1D4F3A80D@BPEXU3VM2.andersencorp.com> References: <9E9331A490988842B21E7F7DC254C1D4F3A80D@BPEXU3VM2.andersencorp.com> Message-ID: <20040923171634.GH40647@therub.org> On Thu, Sep 23, 2004 at 12:02:03PM -0500, Lansing, Dan wrote: > There is legend of the green dragon. Quite a few sites to play > online....lotgd.net is the main server for it, with links to plenty of > other servers...available on sourceforge last I checked so you can run > one yourself > Yeah, I've played that. It's slower than when I used to play LORD on my 2400 baud modem, thouhg. The forest fights take /forever/. Incidently, I did have fun writing up a php/curl script to automate it on one of the lotgd servers (I won't tell you which one :) ). I'm almost to 100 dragon kills on said server.. Anyway, What aobut ursurper? There are BBS's out there, available via telnet. I've tried getting into it recently, but it just wasn't the same :( Have you all seen this? telnet towel.blinkenlights.nl dan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com Thu Sep 23 12:36:19 2004 From: jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com (Jeff Rasmussen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re installing Debian Sarge In-Reply-To: <4152CB85.7040607@joshwelch.com> References: <4151984F.5000200@goldengate.net> <4152CB85.7040607@joshwelch.com> Message-ID: <9d6c8253040923103665c2da06@mail.gmail.com> Be aware that normally Debian testing does not get current security updates. Right now Debian is in transition to make Sage stable so they decided in August to start porting all security updates to testing which is standard practice for the transition. Both stable and unstable have better policies to include security updates. Unstable gets security updates because of the quick release cycle. A security update will be loaded into the normal unstable stream as fast as the security update is added to stable's special security repository. Testing, may in fact, be a better choice for business workstations because you can control the internal network with firewalls and policies. Whereas, a home computer might be better using the unstable branch because it may be directly on the Internet. I wish that alternative Debian distros like Knoppix or UserLinux would contribute to supporting a testing security team. Unfortunately, most home users would not be patient enough to deal with an update that leaves some programs not working for a couple days. I once had a problem with Firefox and had to use Mozilla until I found a workaround in the bug report (uninstall package and reinstall it). Otherwise I've had issues where packages can be upgraded but the dependencies are not available for a couple days. I had to use the older program until the dependencies are made available. Jeff Rasmussen On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 08:11:33 -0500, Josh Welch wrote: > Charlie Obert wrote: > > Since people seem to be talking about Debian.... > > > > I'm going to want to check out Sarge with the new release-candidate > > installer for X86. > > > > My question - should I just go ahead, or would it be preferable to wait > > for Sarge going to release/stable a little later this year? > > > > Any strong opinions, gentle(wo)men? > > > > Cheers, > > > > Charlie Obert > > > > I've installed sarge on my laptop, so far so good. It's considered a > testing release, but seems pretty good for home use so far. I'm new to > debian, and it seemed like sarge's installer was a lot easier to use > than woody's. > > Josh > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Jeff Rasmussen GPG public key 0x9686C12F _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From obelin23 at gmail.com Thu Sep 23 13:00:59 2004 From: obelin23 at gmail.com (Charlie O) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next InstallFest? - New Thread, Take Two Message-ID: <72278d10409231100622eebf5@mail.gmail.com> Umm, Gentle(wo)men, Back to: Speaking of Installfests (since the first thread is thoroughly sidetracked), is there any interest in setting up another one? I wonder how the missing equipment incident at the last one, affected the group. There was quite a bit of talk about scheduling them more frequently before that happened. Anyway I for one would very much like to participate in another. Cheers, Charlie Obert _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Thu Sep 23 13:41:58 2004 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IPCop not getting host names In-Reply-To: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD039C43F1@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us> References: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD039C43F1@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us> Message-ID: <415318F6.6090708@eworld3.net> One is W2k and the others are Linux. rbentz@dunwoody.edu wrote: > Eric, > Are the other machines Windows/Linux? > Windows clients support DDNS, my thought is they would update the IPCop > server. > > Do you or anyone in the list know if IPcop supports dynamic updating of > hostnames? > > --Rob > > >>I am trying to get my IPCop box working. It is doing DHCP but it does >>not seem to be getting the host names from the machines on my network. >> >>For example, I have a debian (woody) box whose hosts file has this > > entry: > >>127.0.0.1 installfest localhost >> >>but when I try to see if DNS is working: >> >>installfest:~# host installfest >>Host installfest not found 5(REFUSED) >>installfest:~# telnet Firemouth >>telnnet: could not resolve Firemouth/telnet: Temporary failure in name >>resolution >> >>Firemouth is another machine with similar hosts file entry. >>I looked at the IPCop FAQ pages but they were not helpful. >> >>I'm wondering if some port has to be open or some daemon has to be >>running to provide the host name when DHCP runs. >> >>BTW all of this is in the Green. >>-- >>Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Thu Sep 23 13:47:58 2004 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IPCop not getting host names In-Reply-To: <72278d104092307086b9cd192@mail.gmail.com> References: <41519C3A.5050607@eworld3.net> <72278d104092307086b9cd192@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <41531A5E.8060107@eworld3.net> DHCP works better if I DON'T assign MAC addresses to IPs. Charlie O wrote: > Rick, > > I'm pretty sure that what you need to do, is associate specific mac > addresses with specific ip addresses for ipcop to make the connection. > > Since IPCop is doing DHCP ( ie, assigning IP addresses), you can't > guarantee that each machine will always get the same IP. You need > static IP assignment for those machines, to associate them with a host > name. > > Call up the IPCop admin page from one of the machines (http://ipcop:81 > or https://ipcop:445 ), and go to the page that handles DHCP - you > will need to sign in as admin to get there. There should be a field > there to assign static IP addresses based on mac address. That should > do it. > > Let me know if this helps. > > Cheers, > > Charlie Obert > > On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 10:37:30 -0500, Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > >>I am trying to get my IPCop box working. It is doing DHCP but it does >>not seem to be getting the host names from the machines on my network. >> >>For example, I have a debian (woody) box whose hosts file has this entry: >>127.0.0.1 installfest localhost >> >>but when I try to see if DNS is working: >> >>installfest:~# host installfest >>Host installfest not found 5(REFUSED) >>installfest:~# telnet Firemouth >>telnnet: could not resolve Firemouth/telnet: Temporary failure in name >>resolution >> >>Firemouth is another machine with similar hosts file entry. >>I looked at the IPCop FAQ pages but they were not helpful. >> >>I'm wondering if some port has to be open or some daemon has to be >>running to provide the host name when DHCP runs. >> >>BTW all of this is in the Green. >>-- >>Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >>tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From eric at lgthouse.com Thu Sep 23 13:41:40 2004 From: eric at lgthouse.com (Eric Peterson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backup In-Reply-To: <20040922223659.GS11983@wookimus.net> References: <1095871592.13094.11.camel@jslaptop> <20040922171011.GC11983@wookimus.net> <4266.160.94.198.186.1095888677.squirrel@160.94.198.186> <20040922223659.GS11983@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <4022.160.94.198.186.1095964900.squirrel@160.94.198.186> I haven't had to worry about locked files as I have a strict regime in my camp. Everyone logs out of the machines when they leave for the day and my backups occur in the wee hours of the morning. I also only backup specific files such as home directories and the like and I don't do any full system backups. I do know that Bacula uses the Windows backup API unless you tell it not to. There are pluses and minuses depending on which solution you choose such as portability of backups to other systems and permission retention. I would take Chad's advice and check out their website. They have a forum and the developer is usually quick to respond to reasonable questions. Their documentation is also pretty good, but it's usually a little behind the latest release. Later, Eric Peterson _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Thu Sep 23 13:49:38 2004 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200409231849.i8NInc405751@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: Biostar M7VIG XP2400 CPU * Sleek Silver & Black Case w/ 420 Watt PSU * Biostar M7VIG Pro-D Motherboard * AMD Athlon XP 2400+ CPU * 256mb PC2700 DDR RAM * 128mb Radeon 9200 or 128mb GeForce FX 5200 * 80gb Seagate UDMA/100 Hard Drive * 52x IDE CD-ROM * 1.44mb Floppy Disk Drive * Motorola 56k v.92 PCI Modem * 6-Channel Sound Card * 3-Piece Speaker Set w/ Self-Powered Mini-Subwoofer * 108-Key PS/2 Multimedia Keyboard * 3-Button PS/2 Optical Mouse w/ Scrollwheel Seller Email address: az_guy_26 at yahoo dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at gmail.com Thu Sep 23 14:30:49 2004 From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next InstallFest? - New Thread, Take Two In-Reply-To: <72278d10409231100622eebf5@mail.gmail.com> References: <72278d10409231100622eebf5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32fd4537040923123055cacfd@mail.gmail.com> Ditto. I'm in, and I'll bring my wireless router, if we need one. More hardware than that, as usual for me as well. Just speak up as to what's needed. Oh, wait, first we should find a place to hold it... On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:00:59 -0500, Charlie O wrote: > Umm, Gentle(wo)men, > > Back to: Speaking of Installfests (since the first thread is > thoroughly sidetracked), is there any interest in setting up another > one? > > I wonder how the missing equipment incident at the last one, affected > the group. There was quite a bit of talk about scheduling them more > frequently before that happened. > > Anyway I for one would very much like to participate in another. > > Cheers, > > Charlie Obert > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jsievert at jsievert.net Thu Sep 23 14:59:59 2004 From: jsievert at jsievert.net (Jason Sievert) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next InstallFest? - New Thread, Take Two In-Reply-To: <32fd4537040923123055cacfd@mail.gmail.com> References: <72278d10409231100622eebf5@mail.gmail.com> <32fd4537040923123055cacfd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1095969599.27799.12.camel@jslaptop> I'm in as well, I can bring another access point and a 8 port switch if needed. Jason On Thu, 2004-09-23 at 14:30 -0500, Keith Bachman wrote: > Ditto. I'm in, and I'll bring my wireless router, if we need one. > More hardware than that, as usual for me as well. Just speak up as to > what's needed. > > Oh, wait, first we should find a place to hold it... > > > On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:00:59 -0500, Charlie O wrote: > > Umm, Gentle(wo)men, > > > > Back to: Speaking of Installfests (since the first thread is > > thoroughly sidetracked), is there any interest in setting up another > > one? > > > > I wonder how the missing equipment incident at the last one, affected > > the group. There was quite a bit of talk about scheduling them more > > frequently before that happened. > > > > Anyway I for one would very much like to participate in another. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Charlie Obert > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rbentz at dunwoody.edu Fri Sep 24 15:45:31 2004 From: rbentz at dunwoody.edu (rbentz@dunwoody.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IPCop not getting host names Message-ID: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD039C4710@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us> How about setting up a Name server? BIND or Windoze has recursive ability, which means you point your client to the local name server for resolution and then point your name server to IPCop. The name server will resolve local names and use the IPCop machine as root hint to resolve others. The downside is incoming queries, from outside or the red network. I'm not sure how that would be setup. --OR-- Setup a hosts file with all the names and periodically copy it down to the clients. I am assuming that you are simply trying to get name resolution to work, correct? --Rob > > DHCP works better if I DON'T assign MAC addresses to IPs. > > Charlie O wrote: > > Rick, > > > > I'm pretty sure that what you need to do, is associate specific mac > > addresses with specific ip addresses for ipcop to make the connection. > > > > Since IPCop is doing DHCP ( ie, assigning IP addresses), you can't > > guarantee that each machine will always get the same IP. You need > > static IP assignment for those machines, to associate them with a host > > name. > > > > Charlie Obert > > > > On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 10:37:30 -0500, Rick Meyerhoff > wrote: > > > >>I am trying to get my IPCop box working. It is doing DHCP but it does > >>not seem to be getting the host names from the machines on my network. > >> > >>Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff > >> > > > > -- > Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jack at jacku.com Sat Sep 25 08:56:19 2004 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IPCop not getting host names In-Reply-To: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD039C4710@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us> References: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD039C4710@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us> Message-ID: <200409250856.19845.jack@jacku.com> Why not make IPCop the name server for the local machines? The last time I used it that was an option. Jack On Friday 24 September 2004 03:45 pm, rbentz@dunwoody.edu wrote: > How about setting up a Name server? BIND or Windoze has recursive > ability, which means you point your client to the local name server for > resolution and then point your name server to IPCop. The name server > will resolve local names and use the IPCop machine as root hint to > resolve others. > The downside is incoming queries, from outside or the red network. I'm > not sure how that would be setup. > --OR-- > Setup a hosts file with all the names and periodically copy it down to > the clients. > > I am assuming that you are simply trying to get name resolution to work, > correct? > > --Rob > > > DHCP works better if I DON'T assign MAC addresses to IPs. > > > > Charlie O wrote: > > > Rick, > > > > > > I'm pretty sure that what you need to do, is associate specific mac > > > addresses with specific ip addresses for ipcop to make the > > connection. > > > > Since IPCop is doing DHCP ( ie, assigning IP addresses), you can't > > > guarantee that each machine will always get the same IP. You need > > > static IP assignment for those machines, to associate them with a > > host > > > > name. > > > > > > Charlie Obert > > > > > > On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 10:37:30 -0500, Rick Meyerhoff > > > > > wrote: > > >>I am trying to get my IPCop box working. It is doing DHCP but it > > does > > > >>not seem to be getting the host names from the machines on my > > network. > > > > > >>Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff > > > > -- > > Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at gmail.com Sat Sep 25 08:58:02 2004 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] generic linux versioning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <67f3084a04092506586ca104a8@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:12:19 -0500, slushpupie@gmail.com wrote: > Every so often some scripts I wrote need to know what distro they are > running on. After a few distros, this is turning into a big hack, > running uname then checking for /etc/*version files. Is there a > better way to know what distro you are on? Jay, I haven't seen any responses on this yet, did you happen to find an answer to this? I work on multiple distros as well, and would be interested in finding out as well. -- -Shawn "That which hits the fan, will not be evenly distributed." _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Sat Sep 25 09:05:33 2004 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IPCop not getting host names In-Reply-To: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD039C4710@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us> References: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD039C4710@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us> Message-ID: <41557B2D.3050109@eworld3.net> You are correct Rob! I talked to Ben last night at the beer meeting and he told me that what I need is to set up bind to resolve names in a domain that I will name. I was hoping that IPCop would do this but it does not. The IPCop FAQ mentions this but I needed someone to confirm my understanding and fill in some gaps. Thanks Ben! Even with a few Black Russians in him he can still explain this stuff very well! Now I just have to actually DO IT! Today I have to take advantage of the nice weather to patch the concrete of my homes foundation - playin' in the mud! rbentz@dunwoody.edu wrote: > How about setting up a Name server? BIND or Windoze has recursive > ability, which means you point your client to the local name server for > resolution and then point your name server to IPCop. The name server > will resolve local names and use the IPCop machine as root hint to > resolve others. > The downside is incoming queries, from outside or the red network. I'm > not sure how that would be setup. > --OR-- > Setup a hosts file with all the names and periodically copy it down to > the clients. > > I am assuming that you are simply trying to get name resolution to work, > correct? > > --Rob > >>DHCP works better if I DON'T assign MAC addresses to IPs. >> >>Charlie O wrote: >> >>>Rick, >>> >>>I'm pretty sure that what you need to do, is associate specific mac >>>addresses with specific ip addresses for ipcop to make the > > connection. > >>>Since IPCop is doing DHCP ( ie, assigning IP addresses), you can't >>>guarantee that each machine will always get the same IP. You need >>>static IP assignment for those machines, to associate them with a > > host > >>>name. >>> >>>Charlie Obert >>> >>>On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 10:37:30 -0500, Rick Meyerhoff > > > >>wrote: >> >>>>I am trying to get my IPCop box working. It is doing DHCP but it > > does > >>>>not seem to be getting the host names from the machines on my > > network. > > > >>>>Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff >>>> >>> >>-- >>Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sat Sep 25 10:22:57 2004 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Computer Recycling Message-ID: <41558D51.40805@visi.com> I didn't send this out the correct way this past week. You have until 2:00pm today to get rid of old computer/electronic stuff FREE. The link below has the name and address of the place to take your old stuff. It's in St. Paul south of the down town area. Maybe someone on the web site could keep us aware of these events and post them on the web site? Thank's to all our tax dollars for making this possible. __http://www.moea.state.mn.us/plugin/recyclers-household.cfm#events_ _Sam._ _ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Sat Sep 25 17:08:10 2004 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200409252208.i8PM8AK29380@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: Digital Alpha 1000A 5333 75 dollars Digital Alpha Server 1000A 5333 128mb RAM (2 64mb) 4 total memory slots 5 9gig Ultra Wide SCSI drives 2 2gig Ultra Wide SCSI drives not plugged in CDROM Floppy NIC DE500-AA (network is working) Video DEC PowerStorm I could not get X to work with this card A Matrox card may work. Runs nice if a little loud. Has Debian installed Boots from floppy can be configured to boot from hard disk Command to boot from floppy is boot dva0 -flags 0 Nice machine if you need a server, I already have a server and want to reduce my power consumption. contact me at smac at visi dot com Seller Email address: smac at visi dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Sat Sep 25 18:54:12 2004 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IPCop not getting host names In-Reply-To: <200409250856.19845.jack@jacku.com> References: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD039C4710@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us> <200409250856.19845.jack@jacku.com> Message-ID: <41560524.8080406@eworld3.net> Jack Ungerleider wrote: > Why not make IPCop the name server for the local machines? The last time I > used it that was an option. > > Jack I'm sure that this is technically possible but it's not really the job of a firewall and that's why they don't include bind in the IPCop distro. At least that's my understanding from reading their FAQ. I have not been able to ssh into IPCop, I get "port 22: Connection refused". > > On Friday 24 September 2004 03:45 pm, rbentz@dunwoody.edu wrote: > >>How about setting up a Name server? BIND or Windoze has recursive >>ability, which means you point your client to the local name server for >>resolution and then point your name server to IPCop. The name server >>will resolve local names and use the IPCop machine as root hint to >>resolve others. >>The downside is incoming queries, from outside or the red network. I'm >>not sure how that would be setup. >>--OR-- >>Setup a hosts file with all the names and periodically copy it down to >>the clients. >> >>I am assuming that you are simply trying to get name resolution to work, >>correct? >> >>--Rob >> >> >>>DHCP works better if I DON'T assign MAC addresses to IPs. >>> >>>Charlie O wrote: >>> >>>>Rick, >>>> >>>>I'm pretty sure that what you need to do, is associate specific mac >>>>addresses with specific ip addresses for ipcop to make the >> >>connection. >> >> >>>>Since IPCop is doing DHCP ( ie, assigning IP addresses), you can't >>>>guarantee that each machine will always get the same IP. You need >>>>static IP assignment for those machines, to associate them with a >> >>host >> >> >>>>name. >>>> >>>>Charlie Obert >>>> >>>>On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 10:37:30 -0500, Rick Meyerhoff >> >> >> >>>wrote: >>> >>>>>I am trying to get my IPCop box working. It is doing DHCP but it >> >>does >> >> >>>>>not seem to be getting the host names from the machines on my >> >>network. >> >> >> >>>>>Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff >>> >>>-- >>>Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >>tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sat Sep 25 23:00:02 2004 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] apt-get question Message-ID: <41563EC2.9050203@visi.com> I've not run debian for a while other then on a server and I've lost my mind. I can't remember where or what to put in to apt.conf so I can get to the debian packages. Long story... I installed debian woody i386 on a Compaq V300 laptop from a CD (needs more ram for Xwindows). It didn't get a connection to the network/internet until after apt-get got configured. The only place I can get applications is from a CD... I need to install Moria, yes I need a fix of Moria to make my day better ;-) Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From obelin23 at gmail.com Sat Sep 25 22:16:52 2004 From: obelin23 at gmail.com (Charlie O) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re installing Debian Sarge In-Reply-To: <9d6c8253040923103665c2da06@mail.gmail.com> References: <4151984F.5000200@goldengate.net> <4152CB85.7040607@joshwelch.com> <9d6c8253040923103665c2da06@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <72278d104092520166d9eeaf6@mail.gmail.com> Thanks to those who gave me feedback on installing Debian Sarge from the release candidate network install. I tried it... base install plus X plus kde took about 5 hours, and Grub detected every other os on my hard drive and set up the bootloader, including keeping the ide-scsi parameter where I needed it for my cdrw. Very nice. Thanks again. Cheers, Charlie Obert _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Sat Sep 25 22:55:35 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] apt-get question In-Reply-To: <41563EC2.9050203@visi.com>; from smac@visi.com on Sat, Sep 25, 2004 at 10:00:02PM -0600 References: <41563EC2.9050203@visi.com> Message-ID: <20040925225535.A12720@thinkunix.net> Sam MacDonald wrote: > I've not run debian for a while other then on a server and I've lost my > mind. > I can't remember where or what to put in to apt.conf so I can get to the > debian packages. do you mean /etc/apt/sources.list to specify http, ftp or cdrom as source to apt-get packages? -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jethro at freakzilla.com Sat Sep 25 22:58:01 2004 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] apt-get question In-Reply-To: <41563EC2.9050203@visi.com> References: <41563EC2.9050203@visi.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 25 Sep 2004, Sam MacDonald wrote: > I've not run debian for a while other then on a server and I've lost my mind. > I can't remember where or what to put in to apt.conf so I can get to the > debian packages. /etc/apt/sources.list ? -Yaron -- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sun Sep 26 07:29:43 2004 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] apt-get question In-Reply-To: References: <41563EC2.9050203@visi.com> Message-ID: <4156B637.3090407@visi.com> Thats it! Yaron wrote: > On Sat, 25 Sep 2004, Sam MacDonald wrote: > >> I've not run debian for a while other then on a server and I've lost >> my mind. >> I can't remember where or what to put in to apt.conf so I can get to >> the debian packages. > > > /etc/apt/sources.list ? > > > -Yaron > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dave.dash at gmail.com Thu Sep 23 14:43:05 2004 From: dave.dash at gmail.com (Dave Dash) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wireless card for desktop Message-ID: <694fa14504092312432d01981@mail.gmail.com> I need a good Linux friendly wireless card (I have an 802.11b WAP, so either a 802.11b or g card, I guess). Are there USB versions of this? That would be super-convenient. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cncole at earthlink.net Sun Sep 26 18:03:29 2004 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wireless card for desktop In-Reply-To: <694fa14504092312432d01981@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I like the Dell Truemobile 1150 as an 802.11b card that's got good RF sensitivity and an external antenna connector, etc. Made by Lucent so can't do better in hardware and software compatibility. These are reasonable on ebay. Haven't considered USB as an option, so I have no info on that. Chuck > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Dave Dash > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 2:43 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: [TCLUG] Wireless card for desktop > > > I need a good Linux friendly wireless card (I have an 802.11b WAP, so > either a 802.11b or g card, I guess). > > Are there USB versions of this? That would be super-convenient. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jack at jacku.com Sun Sep 26 19:43:40 2004 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wireless card for desktop In-Reply-To: <694fa14504092312432d01981@mail.gmail.com> References: <694fa14504092312432d01981@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200409261943.41408.jack@jacku.com> I've done some experimenting with the Linksys USB device (802.11b). The caution I'd make is that the version I've used as an Atmel chip set. These drivers are available but not always part of your favorite distribution. So you may need to build the drivers. On Thursday 23 September 2004 02:43 pm, Dave Dash wrote: > I need a good Linux friendly wireless card (I have an 802.11b WAP, so > either a 802.11b or g card, I guess). > > Are there USB versions of this? That would be super-convenient. -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From leif.t.johnson at gmail.com Sun Sep 26 20:54:23 2004 From: leif.t.johnson at gmail.com (Leif Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wireless card for desktop In-Reply-To: <200409261943.41408.jack@jacku.com> References: <694fa14504092312432d01981@mail.gmail.com> <200409261943.41408.jack@jacku.com> Message-ID: Do you know what the power draw on the channel is with one of these? I'd be worried about overloading it. leif On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:43:40 -0500, Jack Ungerleider wrote: > I've done some experimenting with the Linksys USB device (802.11b). The > caution I'd make is that the version I've used as an Atmel chip set. These > drivers are available but not always part of your favorite distribution. So > you may need to build the drivers. > > On Thursday 23 September 2004 02:43 pm, Dave Dash wrote: > > I need a good Linux friendly wireless card (I have an 802.11b WAP, so > > either a 802.11b or g card, I guess). > > > > Are there USB versions of this? That would be super-convenient. > > -- > Jack Ungerleider > jack@jacku.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.meier at gmail.com Sun Sep 26 22:18:55 2004 From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IPCop not getting host names In-Reply-To: <41560524.8080406@eworld3.net> References: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD039C4710@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us> <200409250856.19845.jack@jacku.com> <41560524.8080406@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <65293fcc0409262018126cf4f@mail.gmail.com> 22 is probably not the port the ipcop machine is doin' sshd on - I think it's 222 so that you can port forward 22 ... try to ssh to 222 On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 18:54:12 -0500, Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > Jack Ungerleider wrote: > > Why not make IPCop the name server for the local machines? The last time I > > used it that was an option. > > > > Jack > > I'm sure that this is technically possible but it's not really the job > of a firewall and that's why they don't include bind in the IPCop > distro. At least that's my understanding from reading their FAQ. > > I have not been able to ssh into IPCop, I get "port 22: Connection refused". > > > > > On Friday 24 September 2004 03:45 pm, rbentz@dunwoody.edu wrote: > > > >>How about setting up a Name server? BIND or Windoze has recursive > >>ability, which means you point your client to the local name server for > >>resolution and then point your name server to IPCop. The name server > >>will resolve local names and use the IPCop machine as root hint to > >>resolve others. > >>The downside is incoming queries, from outside or the red network. I'm > >>not sure how that would be setup. > >>--OR-- > >>Setup a hosts file with all the names and periodically copy it down to > >>the clients. > >> > >>I am assuming that you are simply trying to get name resolution to work, > >>correct? > >> > >>--Rob > >> > >> > >>>DHCP works better if I DON'T assign MAC addresses to IPs. > >>> > >>>Charlie O wrote: > >>> > >>>>Rick, > >>>> > >>>>I'm pretty sure that what you need to do, is associate specific mac > >>>>addresses with specific ip addresses for ipcop to make the > >> > >>connection. > >> > >> > >>>>Since IPCop is doing DHCP ( ie, assigning IP addresses), you can't > >>>>guarantee that each machine will always get the same IP. You need > >>>>static IP assignment for those machines, to associate them with a > >> > >>host > >> > >> > >>>>name. > >>>> > >>>>Charlie Obert > >>>> > >>>>On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 10:37:30 -0500, Rick Meyerhoff > >> > >> > >> > >>>wrote: > >>> > >>>>>I am trying to get my IPCop box working. It is doing DHCP but it > >> > >>does > >> > >> > >>>>>not seem to be getting the host names from the machines on my > >> > >>network. > >> > >> > >> > >>>>>Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff > >>> > >>>-- > >>>Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > >>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > >>tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > -- > > > Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Mon Sep 27 09:42:55 2004 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IPCop not getting host names In-Reply-To: <65293fcc0409262018126cf4f@mail.gmail.com> References: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD039C4710@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us> <200409250856.19845.jack@jacku.com> <41560524.8080406@eworld3.net> <65293fcc0409262018126cf4f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <415826EF.5010901@eworld3.net> Yup it's 222, I found this last night. You have to "turn on" ssh from the IPCop interface first but that is the way it should be. John Meier wrote: > 22 is probably not the port the ipcop machine is doin' sshd on - I > think it's 222 so that you can port forward 22 ... > > try to ssh to 222 > > > On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 18:54:12 -0500, Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > >>Jack Ungerleider wrote: >> >>>Why not make IPCop the name server for the local machines? The last time I >>>used it that was an option. >>> >>>Jack >> >>I'm sure that this is technically possible but it's not really the job >>of a firewall and that's why they don't include bind in the IPCop >>distro. At least that's my understanding from reading their FAQ. >> >>I have not been able to ssh into IPCop, I get "port 22: Connection refused". >> >> >>>On Friday 24 September 2004 03:45 pm, rbentz@dunwoody.edu wrote: >>> >>> >>>>How about setting up a Name server? BIND or Windoze has recursive >>>>ability, which means you point your client to the local name server for >>>>resolution and then point your name server to IPCop. The name server >>>>will resolve local names and use the IPCop machine as root hint to >>>>resolve others. >>>>The downside is incoming queries, from outside or the red network. I'm >>>>not sure how that would be setup. >>>>--OR-- >>>>Setup a hosts file with all the names and periodically copy it down to >>>>the clients. >>>> >>>>I am assuming that you are simply trying to get name resolution to work, >>>>correct? >>>> >>>>--Rob >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>DHCP works better if I DON'T assign MAC addresses to IPs. >>>>> >>>>>Charlie O wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Rick, >>>>>> >>>>>>I'm pretty sure that what you need to do, is associate specific mac >>>>>>addresses with specific ip addresses for ipcop to make the >>>> >>>>connection. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>Since IPCop is doing DHCP ( ie, assigning IP addresses), you can't >>>>>>guarantee that each machine will always get the same IP. You need >>>>>>static IP assignment for those machines, to associate them with a >>>> >>>>host >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>name. >>>>>> >>>>>>Charlie Obert >>>>>> >>>>>>On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 10:37:30 -0500, Rick Meyerhoff >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>I am trying to get my IPCop box working. It is doing DHCP but it >>>> >>>>does >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>not seem to be getting the host names from the machines on my >>>> >>>>network. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff >>>>> >>>>>-- >>>>>Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >>>>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >>>>tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>-- >> >> >>Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >>tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Mon Sep 27 10:32:36 2004 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 486 for a firewall/router? Message-ID: <20040927103236.00004da4@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> Hi, I have a 486 PC that I've setup to route/firewall all my internet traffic with Debian Linux and iptables. Been working like a champ for over a year now. I'm planning on upgrading my bandwidth to residential cable though from a 512 kbps up/down connection to a 6mbps down / 384 kbps up. My question is does this box limit my bandwidth? The two NIC's are on an ISA bus. It seems to work fine, it's only role in life is to firewall, but I'm not sure if that hardware is just too plain old to handle 6mbps. Any thoughts? Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cschumann at twp-llc.com Mon Sep 27 11:04:02 2004 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 486 for a firewall/router? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:32:36 -0500 > From: Josh Trutwin > I have a 486 PC that I've setup to route/firewall all my internet > traffic with Debian Linux and iptables. Been working like a champ for > over a year now. I'm planning on upgrading my bandwidth to > residential cable though from a 512 kbps up/down connection to a 6mbps > down / 384 kbps up. > > My question is does this box limit my bandwidth? The two NIC's are on > an ISA bus. It seems to work fine, it's only role in life is to > firewall, but I'm not sure if that hardware is just too plain old to > handle 6mbps. Any thoughts? Theoretical maximum bandwidth of ISA is 15.9MB/s. 6mb/s is under 4% of that. I/O wait states and interrupt-servicing routines will have a large impact on performance, though. The ISA bus should not limit your speed, nor should memory speed. I say give it a try and measure it. If your 486 does limit your top speed, check to see just what is limiting you. You can put a Pentium Overdrive at 83MHz in a 486 socket if your CPU slows you down. You might try tweaking the clock speed if you're brave. Heck, even an upgrade to PII speeds should be very cheap indeed. Old PCs go for a couple dozen dollars. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com Mon Sep 27 11:11:32 2004 From: there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com (Loren H. Burlingame) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 486 for a firewall/router? In-Reply-To: <20040927103236.00004da4@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> References: <20040927103236.00004da4@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> Message-ID: Well, I am not sure exactly, but I don't think you will have a problem. I currently use SmoothWall on a pentium 133 with 16MB of RAM. It is the firewall/router for my cable network. no problems in well over a year. On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:32:36 -0500, Josh Trutwin wrote: > Hi, > > I have a 486 PC that I've setup to route/firewall all my internet > traffic with Debian Linux and iptables. Been working like a champ for > over a year now. I'm planning on upgrading my bandwidth to > residential cable though from a 512 kbps up/down connection to a 6mbps > down / 384 kbps up. > > My question is does this box limit my bandwidth? The two NIC's are on > an ISA bus. It seems to work fine, it's only role in life is to > firewall, but I'm not sure if that hardware is just too plain old to > handle 6mbps. Any thoughts? > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Loren H. Burlingame GPG Key ID: 0x112DCF4F "Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes." -William Shatner (a.k.a. Buck Murdock) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rosander at owbn.org Mon Sep 27 11:40:37 2004 From: rosander at owbn.org (Rosander) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 486 for a firewall/router? In-Reply-To: <20040927103236.00004da4@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> References: <20040927103236.00004da4@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> Message-ID: <41584285.9000509@owbn.org> Hardware wise you probably won't have any issues. The only real challenge may come in if you start using a lot of stateful rules in iptables and want to track a large number of connections. Memory will be your limit here. the processor and bus speen shouldln't bother you any. Ross >Hi, > >I have a 486 PC that I've setup to route/firewall all my internet >traffic with Debian Linux and iptables. Been working like a champ for >over a year now. I'm planning on upgrading my bandwidth to >residential cable though from a 512 kbps up/down connection to a 6mbps >down / 384 kbps up. > >My question is does this box limit my bandwidth? The two NIC's are on >an ISA bus. It seems to work fine, it's only role in life is to >firewall, but I'm not sure if that hardware is just too plain old to >handle 6mbps. Any thoughts? > >Josh > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Mon Sep 27 11:54:07 2004 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 486 for a firewall/router? In-Reply-To: <41584285.9000509@owbn.org> References: <20040927103236.00004da4@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <41584285.9000509@owbn.org> Message-ID: <20040927115407.0000408e@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 11:40:37 -0500 Rosander wrote: > Hardware wise you probably won't have any issues. The only real > challenge may come in if you start using a lot of stateful rules in > iptables and want to track a large number of connections. Memory > will be your limit here. the processor and bus speen shouldln't > bother you any. Great, thanks for all the responses! Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mglaser at umn.edu Mon Sep 27 11:55:34 2004 From: mglaser at umn.edu (Michael Glaser) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: 486 for a firewall/router? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41584606.4000302@umn.edu> I think it should work OK for you. Give it a shot. I have been using a 486DX-33 with not a lot of RAM (32MB max.) for a number of years and I haven't ever had any problems. I have run various pieces of software on it from the single floppy disk Coyote Linux to Smoothwall 2.0 beta. Everything seemed equally fast. After Comcast doubled the download speed for cable modem users, I was still getting the maximum speeds they claimed I should see. Mike Glaser > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: 486 for a firewall/router? (Chris Schumann) > 2. Re: 486 for a firewall/router? (Loren H. Burlingame) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Mon Sep 27 12:47:08 2004 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Changing my mail server's identity Message-ID: Hey everyone, I've got a box that has a number of virtual hosts doing a bunch of different things. When I installed Debian Linux originally, I set the computer's hostname to 'homer' after everyone's favorite doughnut-eating symbol of Americana. I discovered just today that postfix isn't getting any outgoing email through to domains other than our own. Here's a typical entry from /var/log/mail.log Sep 27 12:40:11 homer postfix/smtp[13172]: 1A2622124: to=, relay=none, delay=120, status=deferred (connect to visi.com.mail8.psmtp.com[64.18.5.10]: Connection timed out) It occurred to me that I don't have a valid external DNS entry for homer and that might be the reason for the problem. I tried switching the computer's hostname to one of the several ones assigned to this system that do resolve. I changed /etc/hostname and the entry in /etc/postfix/main.cf, but as you can see from the log, postfix is still showing 'homer' as the hostname. I also restarted postfix and the networking system on this server. Logging in at the console shows the new hostname in the prompt. Any suggestions? I'm not sure what the next step would be. -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com Mon Sep 27 13:13:49 2004 From: jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com (Jeff Rasmussen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] apt-get question In-Reply-To: <41563EC2.9050203@visi.com> References: <41563EC2.9050203@visi.com> Message-ID: <9d6c825304092711136d4d83b9@mail.gmail.com> You can also use 'apt-setup' for a wizard type walkthrough. Jeff Rasmussen On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 22:00:02 -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > I've not run debian for a while other then on a server and I've lost my > mind. > I can't remember where or what to put in to apt.conf so I can get to the > debian packages. > > Long story... > I installed debian woody i386 on a Compaq V300 laptop from a CD (needs > more ram for Xwindows). > It didn't get a connection to the network/internet until after apt-get > got configured. > The only place I can get applications is from a CD... > > I need to install Moria, yes I need a fix of Moria to make my day better ;-) > > Sam. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Jeff Rasmussen GPG public key 0x9686C12F _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Mon Sep 27 13:54:04 2004 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 486 for a firewall/router? In-Reply-To: <20040927103236.00004da4@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> References: <20040927103236.00004da4@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> Message-ID: <10391.12.47.38.130.1096311244.squirrel@12.47.38.130> Your NIC's are likely 10 Mbps NICS. This is still significantly faster than your Internet connection will be. The only limitation is the speed of your machine and its ability to process as a router which should not be an issue at all. > Hi, > > I have a 486 PC that I've setup to route/firewall all my internet > traffic with Debian Linux and iptables. Been working like a champ for > over a year now. I'm planning on upgrading my bandwidth to > residential cable though from a 512 kbps up/down connection to a 6mbps > down / 384 kbps up. > > My question is does this box limit my bandwidth? The two NIC's are on > an ISA bus. It seems to work fine, it's only role in life is to > firewall, but I'm not sure if that hardware is just too plain old to > handle 6mbps. Any thoughts? > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at greatlakedata.com Mon Sep 27 13:57:55 2004 From: tclug at greatlakedata.com (gregwm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] did not issue MAIL/EXPN/VRFY/ETRN Message-ID: <1096311474.25377.82614.camel@ruby.rub.belfastdata.net> hi folks, can anyone help me guess why mail has stopped arriving over the last few weeks on a mailserver i setup a couple years ago? /var/log/maillog shows for example: Sep 27 14:35:10 pomcoweb sendmail[15045]: NOQUEUE: sc015pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.59] did not issue MAIL/EXPN/VRFY/ETRN during connection to MTA this is happening for mail from earthlink, verizon, et al, though not everywhere, eg mail from TCLUG is arriving fine. we had never bothered to ask the isp to configure reverse DNS, so we now thought maybe earthlink and verizon might be filtering on that, but we got thzt setup now, and it's no better. any ideas? tia, greg _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Mon Sep 27 14:15:04 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] did not issue MAIL/EXPN/VRFY/ETRN In-Reply-To: <1096311474.25377.82614.camel@ruby.rub.belfastdata.net> Message-ID: > /var/log/maillog shows for example: Sep 27 14:35:10 pomcoweb > sendmail[15045]: NOQUEUE: sc015pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.59] did not > issue MAIL/EXPN/VRFY/ETRN during connection to MTA > This means they connected but did not issue a command. > this is happening for mail from earthlink, verizon, et al, though not > everywhere, eg mail from TCLUG is arriving fine. Just a guess, but if this is for greatlakedata.com, I just tried connecting to port 25 of mx.greatlakesdata.com and it took considerable time for the mail server to respond with the SMTP banner. These places that are not able to deliver might just be getting impatient and closing the connection before your server responds. Sendmail defaults to 5 minute timeouts on many of these things, and (again just guessing) it took more than a minute for me to get a response. But it's entirely possible some people have tweaked the timeouts (or are using an MTA with less patient settings). You can try yourself (do it from outside of your network...) telnet mx.greatlakedata.com 25 See if it takes awhile to get the 220. I tried from two machines on two different networks and got the same result. Others will tell you to switch to Postfix or Qmail, but DON'T BELIEVE THEIR LIES! (cue anti-sendmail banter...) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Sep 27 15:06:34 2004 From: smac at visi.com (smac@visi.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] apt-get question In-Reply-To: <9d6c825304092711136d4d83b9@mail.gmail.com> References: <41563EC2.9050203@visi.com> <9d6c825304092711136d4d83b9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1096315594.415872cabff58@my.visi.com> Ya know how it is when you put in way to many hours and you can't remember commands that were at one time second nature. apt-setup yup uhu thats it... Thanks Jeff Sam. Quoting Jeff Rasmussen : > You can also use 'apt-setup' for a wizard type walkthrough. > > Jeff Rasmussen > > > On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 22:00:02 -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > I've not run debian for a while other then on a server and I've lost my > > mind. > > I can't remember where or what to put in to apt.conf so I can get to the > > debian packages. > > > > Long story... > > I installed debian woody i386 on a Compaq V300 laptop from a CD (needs > > more ram for Xwindows). > > It didn't get a connection to the network/internet until after apt-get > > got configured. > > The only place I can get applications is from a CD... > > > > I need to install Moria, yes I need a fix of Moria to make my day better > ;-) > > > > Sam. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > -- > Jeff Rasmussen > GPG public key 0x9686C12F > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at greatlakedata.com Mon Sep 27 16:04:18 2004 From: tclug at greatlakedata.com (gregwm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] did not issue MAIL/EXPN/VRFY/ETRN In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1096319056.29032.83252.camel@ruby.rub.belfastdata.net> > See if it takes awhile to get the 220. I tried from two machines on two > different networks and got the same result. indeed. so sendmail is probably hanging on some dangfangled DNS query? where do i look next? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at greatlakedata.com Mon Sep 27 17:37:02 2004 From: tclug at greatlakedata.com (gregwm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] did not issue MAIL/EXPN/VRFY/ETRN In-Reply-To: <1096319056.29032.83252.camel@ruby.rub.belfastdata.net> References: <1096319056.29032.83252.camel@ruby.rub.belfastdata.net> Message-ID: <1096324621.27225.83738.camel@ruby.rub.belfastdata.net> > > See if it takes awhile to get the 220. I tried from two machines on two > > different networks and got the same result. > > indeed. so sendmail is probably hanging on some dangfangled DNS query? > where do i look next? it's all better after removing from sendmail.mc: FEATURE(`dnsbl', `dialups.visi.com',`Message from $&{client_addr} rejected - see http://dialups.visi.com') FEATURE(`dnsbl', `dialups.mail-abuse.org',`Message from $&{client_addr} rejected - see http://mail-abuse.org/dul/enduser.htm') don't know how long ago they started to be problematic (for earthlink and verizon). it exceeds the log rotation (4 weeks), tho i can't imagine it was many months. still using with no problem: FEATURE(`dnsbl', `list.dsbl.org',`Message from $&{client_addr} rejected - see http://dsbl.org') FEATURE(`dnsbl', `relays.ordb.org',`"550 Email rejected due to sending server misconfiguration - see http://www.ordb.org/faq"') FEATURE(`dnsbl', `dnsbl.njabl.org',`Message from $&{client_addr} rejected - see http://njabl.org') FEATURE(`dnsbl', `sbl.spamhaus.org',`Message from $&{client_addr} rejected - see http://www.spamhaus.org/SBL') FEATURE(`dnsbl',`blackholes.brainerd.net',`Message from $&{client_addr} rejected - see http://blackholes.brainerd.net') not that i've taken the time to be serious about anti-spam or anything, i'd just configured all the above when i'd read about them. haven't gotten around to the likes of spamass or crm114 or anything. thanks for the help adam! -greg _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Sep 27 19:11:26 2004 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] apt-get question In-Reply-To: <9d6c825304092711136d4d83b9@mail.gmail.com> References: <41563EC2.9050203@visi.com> <9d6c825304092711136d4d83b9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4158AC2E.7070002@visi.com> Its working on all the goodies. Sam. Jeff Rasmussen wrote: >You can also use 'apt-setup' for a wizard type walkthrough. > >Jeff Rasmussen > > >On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 22:00:02 -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > >>I've not run debian for a while other then on a server and I've lost my >>mind. >>I can't remember where or what to put in to apt.conf so I can get to the >>debian packages. >> >>Long story... >>I installed debian woody i386 on a Compaq V300 laptop from a CD (needs >>more ram for Xwindows). >>It didn't get a connection to the network/internet until after apt-get >>got configured. >>The only place I can get applications is from a CD... >> >>I need to install Moria, yes I need a fix of Moria to make my day better ;-) >> >>Sam. >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >>tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Mon Sep 27 18:54:45 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] apt-get question In-Reply-To: <1096315594.415872cabff58@my.visi.com>; from smac@visi.com on Mon, Sep 27, 2004 at 03:06:34PM -0500 References: <41563EC2.9050203@visi.com> <9d6c825304092711136d4d83b9@mail.gmail.com> <1096315594.415872cabff58@my.visi.com> Message-ID: <20040927185445.A9035@thinkunix.net> smac@visi.com wrote: > Ya know how it is when you put in way to many hours and you can't remember > commands that were at one time second nature. > > apt-setup yup uhu thats it... Don't forget about your shell history. If it's a command you used recently, you may find it by: "history | more" -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sos at zjod.net Mon Sep 27 21:36:10 2004 From: sos at zjod.net (Steve Siegfried) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Changing my mail server's identity In-Reply-To: from "Tim Wilson" at Sep 27, 2004 12:47:08 PM Message-ID: <200409280236.i8S2aAV25749@zjod.net> Tim Wilson wrote: > > Hey everyone, > > I've got a box that has a number of virtual hosts doing a bunch of different > things. When I installed Debian Linux originally, I set the computer's > hostname to 'homer' after everyone's favorite doughnut-eating symbol of > Americana. > > I discovered just today that postfix isn't getting any outgoing email > through to domains other than our own. Here's a typical entry from > /var/log/mail.log > > Sep 27 12:40:11 homer postfix/smtp[13172]: 1A2622124: to=, > relay=none, delay=120, status=deferred (connect to > visi.com.mail8.psmtp.com[64.18.5.10]: Connection timed out) > > It occurred to me that I don't have a valid external DNS entry for homer and > that might be the reason for the problem. I tried switching the computer's > hostname to one of the several ones assigned to this system that do resolve. > I changed /etc/hostname and the entry in /etc/postfix/main.cf, but as you > can see from the log, postfix is still showing 'homer' as the hostname. I > also restarted postfix and the networking system on this server. Logging in > at the console shows the new hostname in the prompt. > > Any suggestions? I'm not sure what the next step would be. > > -Tim > Grep for "homer" in /etc. Chances are, you missed changing some config file. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jack at jacku.com Mon Sep 27 23:12:49 2004 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wireless card for desktop In-Reply-To: References: <694fa14504092312432d01981@mail.gmail.com> <200409261943.41408.jack@jacku.com> Message-ID: <200409272312.49606.jack@jacku.com> On Sunday 26 September 2004 08:54 pm, Leif Johnson wrote: > Do you know what the power draw on the channel is with one of these? > I'd be worried about overloading it. > > leif According to the users guide of for the WUSB11 (found at http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?grid=33&scid=36&prid=435) the power draw is 260 mA. There was no power spec on the 11g version of the unit. The compact 11b unit (WUSB12), which looks like a "jump drive", list 5V DC as the power. So who knows! -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Tue Sep 28 06:23:32 2004 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Changing my mail server's identity In-Reply-To: <200409280236.i8S2aAV25749@zjod.net> Message-ID: On 9/27/04 9:36 PM, "Steve Siegfried" wrote: > Tim Wilson wrote: >> >> I've got a box that has a number of virtual hosts doing a bunch of different >> things. When I installed Debian Linux originally, I set the computer's >> hostname to 'homer' after everyone's favorite doughnut-eating symbol of >> Americana. >> >> I discovered just today that postfix isn't getting any outgoing email >> through to domains other than our own. Here's a typical entry from >> /var/log/mail.log >> >> Sep 27 12:40:11 homer postfix/smtp[13172]: 1A2622124: to=, >> relay=none, delay=120, status=deferred (connect to >> visi.com.mail8.psmtp.com[64.18.5.10]: Connection timed out) >> >> It occurred to me that I don't have a valid external DNS entry for homer and >> that might be the reason for the problem. I tried switching the computer's >> hostname to one of the several ones assigned to this system that do resolve. >> I changed /etc/hostname and the entry in /etc/postfix/main.cf, but as you >> can see from the log, postfix is still showing 'homer' as the hostname. I >> also restarted postfix and the networking system on this server. Logging in >> at the console shows the new hostname in the prompt. >> >> Any suggestions? I'm not sure what the next step would be. >> >> -Tim > > Grep for "homer" in /etc. Chances are, you missed changing some config file. Yeah, I thought of that. The only reference to homer was in the postfix main.cf file. Changing it had no effect. I guess I'll expand my grepping to other directories. -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Tue Sep 28 08:05:55 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Changing my mail server's identity In-Reply-To: ; from wilson@visi.com on Tue, Sep 28, 2004 at 06:23:32AM -0500 References: <200409280236.i8S2aAV25749@zjod.net> Message-ID: <20040928080555.A25606@thinkunix.net> Tim Wilson wrote: > On 9/27/04 9:36 PM, "Steve Siegfried" wrote: > > > Tim Wilson wrote: > >> > >> I've got a box that has a number of virtual hosts doing a bunch of different > >> things. When I installed Debian Linux originally, I set the computer's > >> hostname to 'homer' after everyone's favorite doughnut-eating symbol of > >> Americana. > >> > >> I discovered just today that postfix isn't getting any outgoing email > >> through to domains other than our own. Here's a typical entry from > >> /var/log/mail.log > >> > >> Sep 27 12:40:11 homer postfix/smtp[13172]: 1A2622124: to=, > >> relay=none, delay=120, status=deferred (connect to > >> visi.com.mail8.psmtp.com[64.18.5.10]: Connection timed out) > >> > >> It occurred to me that I don't have a valid external DNS entry for homer and > >> that might be the reason for the problem. I tried switching the computer's > >> hostname to one of the several ones assigned to this system that do resolve. > >> I changed /etc/hostname and the entry in /etc/postfix/main.cf, but as you > >> can see from the log, postfix is still showing 'homer' as the hostname. I > >> also restarted postfix and the networking system on this server. Logging in > >> at the console shows the new hostname in the prompt. > >> > >> Any suggestions? I'm not sure what the next step would be. To the best of my knowledge, this is what you should do to rename your host on Debian: Run /bin/hostname as root to set the new hostname, just "homer", not FQDN /etc/hostname should be just the hostname "homer", not FQDN /etc/hosts should list the IP of the box and FQDN and any aliases: 127.0.0.1 localhost 192.168.1.2 homer.yourdomain.com homer According to hostname(1): The host name is usually set once at system startup in /etc/rc.d/rc.inet1 or /etc/init.d/boot (normally by read- ing the contents of a file which contains the host name, e.g. /etc/hostname). On my Debian stable/woody system, there is no /etc/init.d/boot but there is /etc/init.d/hostname.sh which just reads /etc/hostname and sets the hostname. -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andyzib at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 10:56:53 2004 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Changing my mail server's identity In-Reply-To: <20040928080555.A25606@thinkunix.net> References: <200409280236.i8S2aAV25749@zjod.net> <20040928080555.A25606@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: Postfix shouldn't really care as long as it can resolve homer somehow (drop a line in /etc/hosts) For your mail problems, I'm no expert, but I would check mynetworks = and mydestination = in your main.cf file to make sure postfix knows what networks and domians it's supposed to be dealing with. -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Tue Sep 28 13:27:56 2004 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Meeting? Message-ID: <20040928182756.GI10893@fandre.com> Well, another month has come and gone without me doing much to find a speaker/topic for the TCLUG meeting. Anyone have anything they would like to talk about? If we don't have a speaker, does anyone still want to meet? How about an "Intro to Linux" for all the students at the U? On a related note, anyone willing to help me out as a "meeting coordinator"? I've been too busy to even think about a meeting. -- Clay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Tue Sep 28 14:15:13 2004 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Meeting? In-Reply-To: <20040928182756.GI10893@fandre.com> References: <20040928182756.GI10893@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20040928191513.GA6144@mail.el-swifto.com> On Tue, Sep 28, 2004 at 01:27:56PM -0500, Clay Fandre wrote: > Well, another month has come and gone without me doing much to find a > speaker/topic for the TCLUG meeting. Anyone have anything they would > like to talk about? Looking at the archives for this spring, there was some discussion of an LDAP auth talk. Did I miss it? -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 16:15:55 2004 From: jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com (Jeff Rasmussen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] apt-get question In-Reply-To: <20040927185445.A9035@thinkunix.net> References: <41563EC2.9050203@visi.com> <9d6c825304092711136d4d83b9@mail.gmail.com> <1096315594.415872cabff58@my.visi.com> <20040927185445.A9035@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <9d6c825304092814152789dc0@mail.gmail.com> I've had problems with history under the root account. It seems like the history clears itself if you use multiple xterms and a terminal at the same time. Is that an option that can be changed? I think that the 'repress duplicate command' option is turned on. I'm using Debian unstable. Jeff Rasmussen On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:54:45 -0500, Scot Jenkins wrote: > smac@visi.com wrote: > > Ya know how it is when you put in way to many hours and you can't remember > > commands that were at one time second nature. > > > > apt-setup yup uhu thats it... > > Don't forget about your shell history. If it's a command you used > recently, you may find it by: "history | more" > -- > scot > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Jeff Rasmussen GPG public key 0x9686C12F _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Wed Sep 29 00:36:19 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] apt-get question In-Reply-To: <9d6c825304092814152789dc0@mail.gmail.com>; from jeff.rasmussen@gmail.com on Tue, Sep 28, 2004 at 04:15:55PM -0500 References: <41563EC2.9050203@visi.com> <9d6c825304092711136d4d83b9@mail.gmail.com> <1096315594.415872cabff58@my.visi.com> <20040927185445.A9035@thinkunix.net> <9d6c825304092814152789dc0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040929003619.A19996@thinkunix.net> Jeff Rasmussen wrote: > I've had problems with history under the root account. It seems like > the history clears itself if you use multiple xterms and a terminal at > the same time. haven't experienced this but I generally try to stick to just one root login on a console. > Is that an option that can be changed? I think that the 'repress > duplicate command' option is turned on. > > I'm using Debian unstable. you might try setting "HISTSIZE=10000; export HISTSIZE" in your .profile or .bash_profile (.login for csh) -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Wed Sep 29 10:50:10 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] USB hard drives Message-ID: <16730.55730.792659.363616@gargle.gargle.HOWL> I was wondering if anyone had any expertise to share about USB hard drives. I'm finding that access to mine seems terribly slow; far slower than I think it ought to be. I'm trying to use one as an external backup device. Because I was careless, I didn't wipe the drive first (it was originally used as a backup device in a removable hard-drive drawer, before a recent upgrade), so have been deleting directories prior to copying stuff onto it, but this seems terribly, terribly slow. For example: rm -rf for 3 megabytes: 50 seconds rm -rf for 5.5 megabytes: 2 minutes 40 seconds! At this rate my backups are going to be very time-consuming! Is there some tuning or hdparming sort of thing I should do? thanks, R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 11:15:09 2004 From: there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com (Loren H. Burlingame) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] USB hard drives In-Reply-To: <16730.55730.792659.363616@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16730.55730.792659.363616@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: Have you looked at the kernel USB support? Make sure that you have the proper chipset specified in the kernel config. You might also want to play with some of the other settings like bandwidth enforcement and such. I have never worked with a USB hard drive but I have heard they are slow (but not THAT slow). Also are you on a USB 2.0 interface or 1.1? On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:50:10 -0500, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > > I was wondering if anyone had any expertise to share about USB hard > drives. I'm finding that access to mine seems terribly slow; far > slower than I think it ought to be. > > I'm trying to use one as an external backup device. Because I was > careless, I didn't wipe the drive first (it was originally used as a > backup device in a removable hard-drive drawer, before a recent > upgrade), so have been deleting directories prior to copying stuff > onto it, but this seems terribly, terribly slow. > > For example: > > rm -rf for 3 megabytes: 50 seconds > rm -rf for 5.5 megabytes: 2 minutes 40 seconds! > > At this rate my backups are going to be very time-consuming! > > Is there some tuning or hdparming sort of thing I should do? > > thanks, > R > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Loren H. Burlingame GPG Key ID: 0x112DCF4F "Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes." -William Shatner (a.k.a. Buck Murdock) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lists at gahlon.com Wed Sep 29 11:51:05 2004 From: lists at gahlon.com (Christopher A. Gahlon) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] USB hard drives In-Reply-To: <16730.55730.792659.363616@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16730.55730.792659.363616@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <200409291151.05131.lists@gahlon.com> > I was wondering if anyone had any expertise to share about USB hard > drives. I'm finding that access to mine seems terribly slow; far > slower than I think it ought to be. Sound to me like you have a USB 1.1 device. I recall my disk being extremetly slow on USB 1.1 I've since purchased a USB 2 drive enclosure and noticed a substancial increase in performance, though nothing close to a drive on an IDE or SCSI bus. Some things to look at: What file system is the old drive? FAT? Ugh. Try EXT2 for a backup drive. There are serious delete performace gains to be had with EXT2. See here: http://oregonstate.edu/~kveton/fs/page2.php Please note the charts for various kernel versions. It makes some difference in the performance vs fs benchmarks he's got. Are you mounting the disk with 'noatime'? check /etc/fstab or if you're using the cmd line then use '-o noatime' Heres my /etc/fstab line for my usb disk: /dev/sda1 /mnt/usbdisk/boot auto rw,user,noauto,noatime 0 0 I use 'auto' for the fs because sometimes I hook up friends USB drives from their winderz boxen (fat32) UGH! > Is there some tuning or hdparming sort of thing I should do? hdparm is for IDE disks, and does not apply to USB connected devices because they show up as SCSI devices. It is possible that the IDE to USB chip in the box you have does not automatically use DMA to access the drive. This might possibly be due to driver issues in the kernel. I'm guessing here as I am not a kernel guru. I'd suggest upgrading to the 2.6.x series if you're on 2.4 to see if that makes a difference. You can use HDPARM for some things on SCSI disks... Here's a timeing test for my USB2 connected drive. There's not much else you can do with it on SCSI though... (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) # hdparm -Tt /dev/sda1 /dev/sda1: Timing buffer-cache reads: 1276 MB in 2.00 seconds = 637.78 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 60 MB in 3.06 seconds = 19.63 MB/sec That's my 5400RPM 30GB IBM TravelStar [DeathStar?] in a USB2 enclosure. Bottom line, reformat the drive in ext2 if it isn't already and turn off the access time stamping of files with 'noatime' or get a USB2 enclosure... One other side note. The number of files radically affects how long it takes to create/delete things. EXT2 smokes all the journaled FS's in delete performance. (see the charts on the above linked page) On Wednesday 29 September 2004 10:50, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > rm -rf for 3 megabytes: 50 seconds > rm -rf for 5.5 megabytes: 2 minutes 40 seconds! Here's a test for comparison: #find /mnt/usbdisk/home/user/ -name "*" |wc -l 89218 #time rm -rf /mnt/usbdisk/home/user/* real 1m21.367s user 0m4.076s sys 0m4.812s That was 16GB of data in 89218 files... Now you have something "real world" to compare your gains/losses to in your experimentation. Cheers, -- Christopher A. Gahlon There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those that understand binary and those that don't. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Wed Sep 29 11:53:59 2004 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] USB hard drives In-Reply-To: <16730.55730.792659.363616@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16730.55730.792659.363616@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <415AE8A7.3050909@eworld3.net> I can't answer your question directly but I think you need to look at the drives specs. If you don't have the manual that came with the drive, maybe you can check the manufacturers web site. You might also check this page for data transfer rates of USB: http://www.usb.org/info/usb_nomenclature I hope this helps. rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > I was wondering if anyone had any expertise to share about USB hard > drives. I'm finding that access to mine seems terribly slow; far > slower than I think it ought to be. > > I'm trying to use one as an external backup device. Because I was > careless, I didn't wipe the drive first (it was originally used as a > backup device in a removable hard-drive drawer, before a recent > upgrade), so have been deleting directories prior to copying stuff > onto it, but this seems terribly, terribly slow. > > For example: > > rm -rf for 3 megabytes: 50 seconds > rm -rf for 5.5 megabytes: 2 minutes 40 seconds! > > At this rate my backups are going to be very time-consuming! > > Is there some tuning or hdparming sort of thing I should do? > > thanks, > R > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Wed Sep 29 12:35:16 2004 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] USB hard drives In-Reply-To: <16730.55730.792659.363616@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16730.55730.792659.363616@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040929173516.GD30022@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From leif.t.johnson at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 13:38:08 2004 From: leif.t.johnson at gmail.com (Leif Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] USB hard drives In-Reply-To: <20040929173516.GD30022@iucha.net> References: <16730.55730.792659.363616@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20040929173516.GD30022@iucha.net> Message-ID: I wouldn't expect the same latency or transfer rate from a USB drive as an IDE one. I haven't actually done the math, but I don't think that the bus can support it. Your latency and throughput will also depend on what other devices you have plugged into that controller, and the host/os implementation. R's speeds do seem way too slow though. The questions that I have about it are: What speed is the device connected at? What filesystem is on the hard drive? What else is plugged into that controller? leif On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:35:16 -0500, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Wed, Sep 29, 2004 at 10:50:10AM -0500, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > > I was wondering if anyone had any expertise to share about USB hard > > drives. I'm finding that access to mine seems terribly slow; far > > slower than I think it ought to be. > > Mine seems slow. Bandwidth and latency are about half of the IDE > interface. I have a Maxtor 89 Gb USB 2.0 drive. > > florin > > -- > > Don't question authority: they don't know either! > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Wed Sep 29 14:27:57 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] USB hard drives In-Reply-To: References: <16730.55730.792659.363616@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <16731.3261.633855.695573@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Loren" == Loren H Burlingame writes: Loren> Have you looked at the kernel USB support? Loren> Make sure that you have the proper chipset specified in the Loren> kernel config. Well, here's one interesting thing. My dell has a nice, easy-to-reach USB port on the front, giving the following miserable performance: 103 seconds to delete 30 megabytes of stuff. However, there are also USB ports on the back. For a laugh, I pulled out of the front port and inserted into the back. New numbers: 11 seconds to delete 36 megabytes of stuff. Loren> You might also want to play with some of the other settings like Loren> bandwidth enforcement and such. Loren> I have never worked with a USB hard drive but I have heard they are Loren> slow (but not THAT slow). Loren> Also are you on a USB 2.0 interface or 1.1? Should be on a 2.0. I wonder if the front port is 1.1.... Hmmm... looks like maybe so: [rpg@necronomicon ~/tusc]$ usbtree /: Bus 05.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=ehci_hcd/8p, 480M |__ Port 8: Dev 4, If 0, Class=stor., Driver=usb-storage, 480M /: Bus 04.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=uhci_hcd/2p, 12M /: Bus 03.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=uhci_hcd/2p, 12M /: Bus 02.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=uhci_hcd/2p, 12M |__ Port 1: Dev 2, If 0, Class=HID, Driver=hid, 1.5M /: Bus 01.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=uhci_hcd/2p, 12M |__ Port 2: Dev 3, If 0, Class=vend., Driver=microtekX6, 12M Other than that, looks pretty much like gibberish to me, I'm afraid. thanks, though! R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Wed Sep 29 14:44:07 2004 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200409291944.i8TJi7r20905@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: Want to Buy Subject: 17 inch monitors I'm looking for two 17" monitors, used, in good shape. Will pay $50-75 for a pair, or $25-35 individually. Thanks! Seller Email address: mmurphy at tc-tech dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Wed Sep 29 15:04:26 2004 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] USB hard drives In-Reply-To: References: <16730.55730.792659.363616@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20040929173516.GD30022@iucha.net> Message-ID: <20040929200426.GF30022@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From klinej at msoe.edu Wed Sep 29 15:23:48 2004 From: klinej at msoe.edu (Jonathan Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] USB hard drives In-Reply-To: <16730.55730.792659.363616@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16730.55730.792659.363616@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <1096489428.8354.14.camel@localhost> Before I moved the drives to an actual IDE bus, I was sustaining about 4mb/s to it, and it caused relatively high cpu utilization,a nd drove the system load up. This was with USB2. USB1.1 had an even higher cpu utilization and virtually made the system un-usable during times of high usb activity. I also tried firewire, and saw decreased system load, increased throughput, however I had stability issues with it. I personally wouldn't use USB or firewire for high storage needs. Yes it is convenient and all, however, the performance just isn't worth it. However USB is great for things like ipods, keyboards/mice, webcams and printers, it doesn't perform very well under high load. I have tried ext3, reiser, ext2, and vfat on large storage drives connected via usb, and the file system didn't seem to increase or decrease performance. Cheers, ~J On Wed, 2004-09-29 at 10:50, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > I was wondering if anyone had any expertise to share about USB hard > drives. I'm finding that access to mine seems terribly slow; far > slower than I think it ought to be. > > I'm trying to use one as an external backup device. Because I was > careless, I didn't wipe the drive first (it was originally used as a > backup device in a removable hard-drive drawer, before a recent > upgrade), so have been deleting directories prior to copying stuff > onto it, but this seems terribly, terribly slow. > > For example: > > rm -rf for 3 megabytes: 50 seconds > rm -rf for 5.5 megabytes: 2 minutes 40 seconds! > > At this rate my backups are going to be very time-consuming! > > Is there some tuning or hdparming sort of thing I should do? > > thanks, > R > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jonathan Kline Milwaukee School of Engineering _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Ben.Neigebauer at compellent.com Wed Sep 29 15:21:30 2004 From: Ben.Neigebauer at compellent.com (Ben Neigebauer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] USB hard drives Message-ID: <3F7813665506CA479E7B48DA0DA829BD7431B9@owa.compellent.com> Actually 16-20 sounds about right from what I have seen. There is actually a lot of CPU work for USB (that's why intel pushes it) In my informal testing, FireWire has faster transfers and lower CPU when you use a decent FireWire card. Don't be fooled by the 480 vs. 400 numbers, a lot of it's taken up by overhead. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Florin Iucha Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 3:04 PM To: Leif Johnson; TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] USB hard drives On Wed, Sep 29, 2004 at 01:38:08PM -0500, Leif Johnson wrote: > I wouldn't expect the same latency or transfer rate from a USB drive > as an IDE one. I haven't actually done the math, but I don't think > that the bus can support it. USB 2.0 "480 MBs". I would expect a sustained throughput of 35-40 MB or so, without much CPU usage. I get around 16-20 and the CPU is working hard (it's a PII/450). > Your latency and throughput will also > depend on what other devices you have plugged into that controller, > and the host/os implementation. Nothing. Linux. 2.6.7. > What filesystem is on the hard drive? ext2 florin -- Don't question authority: they don't know either! _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From leif.t.johnson at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 16:18:36 2004 From: leif.t.johnson at gmail.com (Leif Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] USB hard drives In-Reply-To: <3F7813665506CA479E7B48DA0DA829BD7431B9@owa.compellent.com> References: <3F7813665506CA479E7B48DA0DA829BD7431B9@owa.compellent.com> Message-ID: Ben is right. The actual limit for a bulk transfer (which is hard drives/printers/scanners etc use) is ~53 MB per second. And this is only if everything goes right (ie there aren't any underutilized frames and everything is on time) and probably requires that you use only 1 endpoint. So actual throughput is going to be much less. R -- You should run usbtree for the drive on both ports (the slow one and the fast one) and see where it ends up. It shouldn't matter where it is plugged in, and if it does it might mean that something is amiss. I think that most USB controllers actualy have control chips for each speed that show up whe you scan the bus. The devices get handed off to the appropriate controller on initial negotiation. A good resource for those interested is: http://www.linux-usb.org/usb2.html you can also get the actual USB 2.0 spec at http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/ but that's heavy boring reading. leif On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:21:30 -0500, Ben Neigebauer wrote: > Actually 16-20 sounds about right from what I have seen. > > There is actually a lot of CPU work for USB (that's why intel pushes it) > > In my informal testing, FireWire has faster transfers and lower CPU when > you use a decent FireWire card. > > Don't be fooled by the 480 vs. 400 numbers, a lot of it's taken up by > overhead. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Florin Iucha > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 3:04 PM > To: Leif Johnson; TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] USB hard drives > > On Wed, Sep 29, 2004 at 01:38:08PM -0500, Leif Johnson wrote: > > I wouldn't expect the same latency or transfer rate from a USB drive > > as an IDE one. I haven't actually done the math, but I don't think > > that the bus can support it. > > USB 2.0 "480 MBs". I would expect a sustained throughput of 35-40 MB > or so, without much CPU usage. I get around 16-20 and the CPU is > working hard (it's a PII/450). > > > Your latency and throughput will also > > depend on what other devices you have plugged into that controller, > > and the host/os implementation. > > Nothing. Linux. 2.6.7. > > > What filesystem is on the hard drive? > > ext2 > > florin > > -- > > Don't question authority: they don't know either! > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ryan at ryanorourke.org Wed Sep 29 10:30:20 2004 From: ryan at ryanorourke.org (Ryan O'Rourke) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] greetings Message-ID: <415AD50C.1080802@ryanorourke.org> Hello, I'd like to introduce myself since I'm new to the list. I recently relocated to Minneapolis from Iowa where I had been working for a small company as their net/sys admin. That company was formerly an NT shop, but they brought me on to quickly phase Windows out and usher Linux in. That was a great opportunity to work with Linux and advance my skills, although I still don't really consider myself to be more than "intermediate" in skill level. Recently a developer opportunity arose at UHG in Minnetonka and I jumped on it. Unfortunately, I'm no longer professionally working with Linux and Open Source but I still maintain a homogeneous Linux home network. I look forward to joining this new group of Linux users and getting to know some of you. -- Ryan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From thurianknight at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 21:11:57 2004 From: thurianknight at gmail.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] greetings In-Reply-To: <415AD50C.1080802@ryanorourke.org> References: <415AD50C.1080802@ryanorourke.org> Message-ID: <7bdea6e30409291911c141b2@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:30:20 -0500, Ryan O'Rourke wrote: > Hello, > > I'd like to introduce myself since I'm new to the list. Welcome, Ryan! -- Dave Sherman MCSA, MCSE, CCNA [Insert witty .sig here.] _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at nomeaning.net Wed Sep 29 21:46:16 2004 From: tclug at nomeaning.net (Eric Lambart) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] greetings In-Reply-To: <415AD50C.1080802@ryanorourke.org> References: <415AD50C.1080802@ryanorourke.org> Message-ID: <1096512376.15480.39.camel@wkstn1> On Wed, 2004-09-29 at 10:30 -0500, Ryan O'Rourke wrote: > Hello, > > I'd like to introduce myself since I'm new to the list. Welcome! I only arrived here (Mpls) about 6 weeks ago myself. I'm working (remotely) as a software engineer for a couple of clients in California. One project involves porting Windows C++ code to linux, the other involves creating a data management system using Python (among other languages). Eventually I'd like to find local employment--and I'd rather be coding in C--but hey, work is work! I've been using linux for about 95% of the past three years, and this year wrote a GTK-based IDE (integrated development environment) for a rather obscure programming language (ESI Objects, a flavor of object-oriented MUMPS) (if you're curious, it's at http://geode.sourceforge.net =) ). I sure wish I'd found an active LUG list like this when I first started trying to figure stuff out! I look forward to seeing some questions I can help folks out with, and expect to be asking some questions of my own before long, once I get a chance to continue setting up a new server using Debian (I've been mostly a RedHat guy so far, with some help from apt-rpm). Eric _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Wed Sep 29 21:57:32 2004 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] USB hard drives In-Reply-To: References: <3F7813665506CA479E7B48DA0DA829BD7431B9@owa.compellent.com> Message-ID: <1096513052.5040.8508.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ntraxler at usfamily.net Wed Sep 29 23:10:42 2004 From: ntraxler at usfamily.net (Nick Traxler) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Log of Debian package installs and deletes? Message-ID: <415B8742.20208@usfamily.net> I've been using Debian for a few years now, and I'm curious about something - is there a log kept anywhere of when packages are installed or removed? I'm curious because sometimes I apt-get a package, use it for a bit, but decide to remove it. I'd prefer to remove its dependecies also, but only the ones that aren't being used by something else. A log would be useful for this, since the packages would all be installed at the same time. Other than that, I'm loving Debian, and I hope they can add the X.org server at some point in the future - to me, XFree86 is difficult to configure and seems to be holding Linux back. Thanks in advance for any pointers, -- Nick ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Wed Sep 29 23:41:19 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Log of Debian package installs and deletes? In-Reply-To: <415B8742.20208@usfamily.net>; from ntraxler@usfamily.net on Wed, Sep 29, 2004 at 11:10:42PM -0500 References: <415B8742.20208@usfamily.net> Message-ID: <20040929234119.A27627@thinkunix.net> Nick Traxler wrote: > I've been using Debian for a few years now, and I'm curious about > something - is there a log kept anywhere of when packages are installed > or removed? I'm not sure about any logs, but... > I'm curious because sometimes I apt-get a package, use it for a bit, but > decide to remove it. I'd prefer to remove its dependecies also, but only > the ones that aren't being used by something else. A log would be useful > for this, since the packages would all be installed at the same time. apt-get install cruft Description: Find any cruft built up on your system cruft is a program to look over your system for anything that shouldn't be there, but is; or for anything that should be there, but isn't. . It bases most of its results on dpkg's database, as well as a list of `extra files' that can appear during the lifetime of various packages. . cruft is still in pre-release; your assistance in improving its accuracy and performance is appreciated. -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tex at nerp.net Wed Sep 29 23:59:22 2004 From: tex at nerp.net (tex@nerp.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] greetings Message-ID: <1235.65.27.99.20.1096520362.squirrel@webmail.nerp.net> > On Wed, 2004-09-29 at 10:30 -0500, Ryan O'Rourke wrote: >> Hello, >> >> I'd like to introduce myself since I'm new to the list. > > Welcome! I only arrived here (Mpls) about 6 weeks ago myself. > > Eric > > > Welcome Ryan and Eric!! Now you have found TCLUG I hope you will join us at one of our monthly Beer Meetings and get to know a few fellow linux users. http://beer.tclug.org Deborah tex@nerp.net _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at joshwelch.com Thu Sep 30 09:16:35 2004 From: tclug at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Passwd Message-ID: <415C1543.5020200@joshwelch.com> So I've got a database server at work that the users have never had to change passwords on. Now I need to make users change their passwords on this system, but when a user invokes passwd they get this error: passwd: Authentication token manipulation error This is before they even get the option to enter a new password, so it's not a case of too short or too simple. Also, I, as root, can change their password, but that is not how I want this to go. It should be noted that the passwd and shadow file have been copied to this system from the previous database server during an upgrade, and possibly from the server before that to the previous server, I can't remember that far back. That could be the root cause of the problem. I've tried backing up shadow and using pwconv to make a new shadow file, that didn't work either. Any thoughts from the list? Thanks, Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cschumann at twp-llc.com Thu Sep 30 09:19:01 2004 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] newbies and distros In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello all, The posts from new people reminded me that I want to branch out. My laptop (ThinkPad 600X) currently has WinXP (sigh) and Fedora Core 2 on it. While Fedora works OK, reading about Debian has me intrigued. I gave it a half-hearted try, but it didn't even install correctly. I put Fedora back on. I'm going to give it another go soon, so be prepared for some really elementary questions. I have read a few web pages about installation, but they are really rare and sparse. Most of them seem to be geared toward someone who hasn't installed Debian LATELY. Another hurdle I have not jumped is getting wireless working. I have a LinkSys WPC54G, which is supposed to be one of the most popular cards on the planet, and apparently a lot of people get it to work with little issue, and I am inept at finding a good HOWTO on the matter. Anyway, welcome to Ryan, hello again to Eric and all the other new folks. And when is the next installfest? Chris Schumann _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 09:47:49 2004 From: there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com (Loren H. Burlingame) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Passwd In-Reply-To: <415C1543.5020200@joshwelch.com> References: <415C1543.5020200@joshwelch.com> Message-ID: Sounds like your problem might be PAM related. I guess I would start there. On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 09:16:35 -0500, Josh Welch wrote: > So I've got a database server at work that the users have never had to > change passwords on. Now I need to make users change their passwords on > this system, but when a user invokes passwd they get this error: > passwd: Authentication token manipulation error > > This is before they even get the option to enter a new password, so it's > not a case of too short or too simple. Also, I, as root, can change > their password, but that is not how I want this to go. > > It should be noted that the passwd and shadow file have been copied to > this system from the previous database server during an upgrade, and > possibly from the server before that to the previous server, I can't > remember that far back. That could be the root cause of the problem. > I've tried backing up shadow and using pwconv to make a new shadow file, > that didn't work either. > > Any thoughts from the list? > > Thanks, > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Loren H. Burlingame GPG Key ID: 0x112DCF4F "Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes." -William Shatner (a.k.a. Buck Murdock) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Sep 30 10:20:36 2004 From: smac at visi.com (smac@visi.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] newbies and distros In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1096557636.415c244419e77@my.visi.com> I just installed Debian Woody 3.x from CDROM on a Compaq Armada V300 Cellron 400MHz with 96mb RAM... I had some issues and had to install again a day or so later. Weird apt-get issue I'm still looking at... It's working but I'm having a bit of a time getting it to stop booting to a graphical login (Yuck). I looked at /etc/inittab and set it to run level 3 (I thought) but it still boots to graphical login. I can change at that point to terminal login but that's not what I want. Inittab has some stuff I'm not use to seeing, but I'll figure that out. Am I looking at the wrong place for the inittab? I'll include my inittab this evening (when I get home) but I think it's something that is being installed after base is installed. PCMCIA gave me a little trouble. For some reason it askes if you want to "remove" PCMCIA support because it's not needed, I replyed "No"; it's a laptop so it is needed. Installed it with dselect, networking works fine so far. I need to get the sound working but that shouldn't be to much of an issue. Sam. Quoting Chris Schumann : > Hello all, > > The posts from new people reminded me that I want to branch out. > > My laptop (ThinkPad 600X) currently has WinXP (sigh) and Fedora Core 2 on > it. While Fedora works OK, reading about Debian has me intrigued. I gave > it a half-hearted try, but it didn't even install correctly. I put Fedora > back on. > > I'm going to give it another go soon, so be prepared for some really > elementary questions. I have read a few web pages about installation, but > they are really rare and sparse. Most of them seem to be geared toward > someone who hasn't installed Debian LATELY. > > Another hurdle I have not jumped is getting wireless working. I have a > LinkSys WPC54G, which is supposed to be one of the most popular cards on > the planet, and apparently a lot of people get it to work with little > issue, and I am inept at finding a good HOWTO on the matter. > > Anyway, welcome to Ryan, hello again to Eric and all the other new folks. > > And when is the next installfest? > > Chris Schumann > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Thu Sep 30 10:36:04 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] newbies and distros In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040930153604.GD20511@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Thu Sep 30 10:32:25 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Log of Debian package installs and deletes? In-Reply-To: <415B8742.20208@usfamily.net> References: <415B8742.20208@usfamily.net> Message-ID: <20040930153225.GC20511@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Thu Sep 30 10:44:06 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] newbies and distros In-Reply-To: <1096557636.415c244419e77@my.visi.com> References: <1096557636.415c244419e77@my.visi.com> Message-ID: <20040930154406.GE20511@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Thu Sep 30 12:59:45 2004 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Passwd In-Reply-To: <415C1543.5020200@joshwelch.com> References: <415C1543.5020200@joshwelch.com> Message-ID: <4494.192.168.100.2.1096567185.squirrel@192.168.100.2> I had this problem once before, but I cannot remember what I did to fix it. Try checking the rights on the passwd file though. They should be: rw-r--r-- 'just a thought... > So I've got a database server at work that the users have never had to > change passwords on. Now I need to make users change their passwords on > this system, but when a user invokes passwd they get this error: > passwd: Authentication token manipulation error > > This is before they even get the option to enter a new password, so it's > not a case of too short or too simple. Also, I, as root, can change > their password, but that is not how I want this to go. > > It should be noted that the passwd and shadow file have been copied to > this system from the previous database server during an upgrade, and > possibly from the server before that to the previous server, I can't > remember that far back. That could be the root cause of the problem. > I've tried backing up shadow and using pwconv to make a new shadow file, > that didn't work either. > > Any thoughts from the list? > > Thanks, > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Thu Sep 30 13:04:09 2004 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] greetings In-Reply-To: <415AD50C.1080802@ryanorourke.org> References: <415AD50C.1080802@ryanorourke.org> Message-ID: <4530.192.168.100.2.1096567449.squirrel@192.168.100.2> Where in Iowa? > Hello, > > I'd like to introduce myself since I'm new to the list. > I recently relocated to Minneapolis from Iowa where I had been working > for a small company as their net/sys admin. That company was formerly > ...snipped... > -- Ryan > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Thu Sep 30 14:58:20 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] newbies and distros In-Reply-To: <20040930154406.GE20511@wookimus.net>; from chewie@wookimus.net on Thu, Sep 30, 2004 at 10:44:06AM -0500 References: <1096557636.415c244419e77@my.visi.com> <20040930154406.GE20511@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20040930145820.A18339@thinkunix.net> Chad Walstrom wrote: > smac@visi.com wrote: > > It's working but I'm having a bit of a time getting it to stop booting > > to a graphical login (Yuck). I looked at /etc/inittab and set it to > > run level 3 (I thought) but it still boots to graphical login. > > That's because Debian does things a little differently than Fedora. I > partially agree with Red Hat's use of run-levels to determine when > graphical displays are necessary. > > [10:41:52] chewie@skuld (516)$ cd etc;ls rc?.d/???gdm > rc0.d/K01gdm@ rc2.d/S99gdm@ rc4.d/S99gdm@ rc6.d/K01gdm@ > rc1.d/K01gdm@ rc3.d/S99gdm@ rc5.d/S99gdm@ > > To that end, you need to move the /etc/rc2.d/S99gdm file > /etc/rc2.d/K01gdm. The same goes for run-level directories 3 and 4, if > you want Debian to behave like Fedora (which starts in rl 5). If you're > using kdm or xdm, do the same. Here's another way to accomplish the same (I'm assuming you're running xdm as your X display manager): root# cd /etc/init.d root# update-rc.d -f xdm remove This is sort of like /sbin/chkconfig from IRIX and/or Redhat. If you decide you want to have xdm start only in runlevel 5, you can add back the start like like this: root# cd /etc/init.d root# update-rc.d xdm start 5 . stop 0 1 2 3 4 6 . This will create a start symlink for runlevel 5 and stop symlinks for runlevels 0-4 and 6. NOTE the "." which ends the list of runlevels for both start and stop. man update-rc.d(8) for more info. -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Thu Sep 30 15:01:03 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] No October Meeting In-Reply-To: <20040930141244.GF15388@fandre.com>; from clay@fandre.com on Thu, Sep 30, 2004 at 09:12:44AM -0500 References: <20040930141244.GF15388@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20040930150103.B18339@thinkunix.net> Clay Fandre wrote: > We will not be having an October TCLUG meeting. I'be been extremely > busy and haven't had time to try and find a speaker. I am looking for > someone to help coordinate TCLUG events, mainly meetings, so let me > know if you are interested. > > But there is good news. I do have a speaker lined up for next month. > Plus I am working on getting an installfest scheduled for October or > November. (If you know of space we can hold one, let me know) I may have a lead on some space in St. Paul. I'll follow-up on it and get back to you. -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Thu Sep 30 15:16:59 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] newbies and distros In-Reply-To: <20040930145820.A18339@thinkunix.net> References: <1096557636.415c244419e77@my.visi.com> <20040930154406.GE20511@wookimus.net> <20040930145820.A18339@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <20040930201659.GH20511@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Thu Sep 30 15:27:31 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] newbies and distros In-Reply-To: <20040930201659.GH20511@wookimus.net>; from chewie@wookimus.net on Thu, Sep 30, 2004 at 03:16:59PM -0500 References: <1096557636.415c244419e77@my.visi.com> <20040930154406.GE20511@wookimus.net> <20040930145820.A18339@thinkunix.net> <20040930201659.GH20511@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20040930152731.A20349@thinkunix.net> Chad Walstrom wrote: > Scot Jenkins wrote: > > root# cd /etc/init.d > > root# update-rc.d -f xdm remove > > update-rc.d is best used in postinst/postrm scripts to update the > linkfarms automatically. It's not good UI, nor was it designed to be. > As a user interface, it lacks structure and simplicity. I couldn't agree more. > > root# cd /etc/init.d > > root# update-rc.d xdm start 5 . stop 0 1 2 3 4 6 . > > This is cryptic crap. You can also specify what "priority" to use, such > as starting at 20 rather than 99, but in order to use this command, I've > had to reference the manpage or command help EVERY time. Again, I agree and have had the same experience. Just having used chkconfig in the RH and IRIX worlds, I got used to a tool to managed the links for me. Being a recent Debian convert, this appeared to me to be the "Debian way" of doing things. I got used to it, but I agree it's kludgy. -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dru at druswanderings.net Thu Sep 30 15:47:01 2004 From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] newbies and distros In-Reply-To: <20040930152731.A20349@thinkunix.net> References: <1096557636.415c244419e77@my.visi.com> <20040930154406.GE20511@wookimus.net> <20040930145820.A18339@thinkunix.net> <20040930201659.GH20511@wookimus.net> <20040930152731.A20349@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <415C70C5.6000601@druswanderings.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Scot Jenkins wrote: | chkconfig in the RH and IRIX worlds, I got used to a tool to managed the | links for me. Being a recent Debian convert, this appeared to me to be | the "Debian way" of doing things. I got used to it, but I agree it's | kludgy. For quick and dirty additions/subtractions(and a curses interface t'boot), I use rcconf. It adds a link to all the runlevels at once. Since I almost never change my runlevel it works great for me. - -- The Wandering Dru GnuPG Key: 0x506A915F http://www.druswanderings.net Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store! http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBXHDFiwhv4FBqkV8RAiOmAKC5Ew9FI50jjVi5zWrjy4tXTBWrpwCcDD1f TpGRxD+ICz6p2ehKftj0qt8= =Bo44 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 18:40:18 2004 From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Slightly OT] GPL etc licensing... Message-ID: <32fd453704093016401fbd808@mail.gmail.com> I need to know which way I have to do this, as I have a product I'm going to be making (called 3AM - basically a CD/DVD set of software to install on a windows system after fresh install) http://www.bnac.biz/products/3am/ (page NOT up yet) The question I have is this: If I provide a GPL or similarly licensed product (LGPL, BSD, etc) I know that I am supposed to provide the source as well. Now, do I have to provide the source at the same time, or can I just point them to the project's homepage, saying that they can get the source from there? Thanks! 3AM is nearing a releasable state, so hope to have it available soon! Keith Bachman _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From silwenae at silwenae.com Thu Sep 30 18:57:53 2004 From: silwenae at silwenae.com (Paul Cutler) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Slightly OT] GPL etc licensing... In-Reply-To: <32fd453704093016401fbd808@mail.gmail.com> References: <32fd453704093016401fbd808@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1096588673.6770.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 19:09:05 2004 From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Slightly OT] GPL etc licensing... In-Reply-To: <1096588673.6770.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <32fd453704093016401fbd808@mail.gmail.com> <1096588673.6770.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <32fd453704093017093c6cc820@mail.gmail.com> That's what I was thinking - anyone else want to comment? Otherwise I think I have my answer. Thanks paul! On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:57:53 -0500, Paul Cutler wrote: > My understanding is you don't have to include the source with the > binary, provided you point to where you can get it. > > Such as Linksys, who has a GPL center on their website, and for a few > bucks to cover shipping, they'll send you the GPL code. > > I just got a Mirra (www.mirra.com) backup system, that has Apache code > built-in, they do the same thing. Send them $10 for the cd & shipping, > and they'll send you the source code. Source code was not on the > Windows install disc they provided. > > --paul > > > > On Thu, 2004-09-30 at 18:40, Keith Bachman wrote: > > I need to know which way I have to do this, as I have a product I'm > > going to be making (called 3AM - basically a CD/DVD set of software to > > install on a windows system after fresh install) > > > > http://www.bnac.biz/products/3am/ > > (page NOT up yet) > > > > The question I have is this: If I provide a GPL or similarly licensed > > product (LGPL, BSD, etc) I know that I am supposed to provide the > > source as well. Now, do I have to provide the source at the same > > time, or can I just point them to the project's homepage, saying that > > they can get the source from there? > > > > Thanks! > > > > 3AM is nearing a releasable state, so hope to have it available soon! > > > > Keith Bachman > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at nomeaning.net Thu Sep 30 19:50:04 2004 From: tclug at nomeaning.net (Eric Lambart) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Slightly OT] GPL etc licensing... In-Reply-To: <32fd453704093016401fbd808@mail.gmail.com> References: <32fd453704093016401fbd808@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1096591804.17863.30.camel@wkstn1> On Thu, 2004-09-30 at 18:40 -0500, Keith Bachman wrote: > The question I have is this: If I provide a GPL or similarly licensed > product (LGPL, BSD, etc) I know that I am supposed to provide the > source as well. Now, do I have to provide the source at the same > time, or can I just point them to the project's homepage, saying that > they can get the source from there? I don't *believe* you have to supply any source code for BSD or LGPL. Other licenses vary. I'd guess this is the applicable section from the GPL: 3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it, under Section 2) in object code or executable form under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above provided that you also do one of the following: a) Accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code, which must be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or, b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or, c) Accompany it with the information you received as to the offer to distribute corresponding source code. (This alternative is allowed only for noncommercial distribution and only if you received the program in object code or executable form with such an offer, in accord with Subsection b above.) It seems section (C) would apply *unless* you're planning to make money on the product. I guess if you're going to make money on distribution, you have to offer the source code for 3 years yourself (option (B))? HTH, Eric _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com Thu Sep 30 19:57:20 2004 From: tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com (Robert D. De Mars) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] newbies and distros In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <415CAB70.2020504@b-o-b.homelinux.com> Chris Schumann wrote: > Hello all, > > The posts from new people reminded me that I want to branch out. > > My laptop (ThinkPad 600X) currently has WinXP (sigh) and Fedora Core 2 on > it. While Fedora works OK, reading about Debian has me intrigued. I gave > it a half-hearted try, but it didn't even install correctly. I put Fedora > back on. > I don't want to start a flame war or anything like that, but I wouldn't be doing my duty if I didn't say "Why not try Slackware?" It's easy, solid, and just works. Simply follow the instructions & you should be up & running in no time. Ok, I feel better now. ;-P Have fun with you Deb. Install... Adios, Robert De Mars -- Lat. 45:09n Long. 93:18w http://b-o-b.homelinux.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nik at black-nyx.com Thu Sep 30 20:10:44 2004 From: nik at black-nyx.com (nik@black-nyx.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] hey, new to the list and new to linux. Message-ID: <34963.63.231.155.226.1096593044.squirrel@63.231.155.226> Hey, Just wanted to introduce myself. I'm new to linux, I've just put linux on my computer after getting incredibly bored with the capabilities or lack there of of Winblows. I'm definitely computer literate and I'm definitely willing to learn but as of now, my computer is fairly useless and I can't get much to work. I'm having tons of problems with my sound, I can get certain system like sounds such as error beeps when I do something wrong, or when I log onto Gnome, but it wont let me hear any sounds. I'm still learning about whats needed to hear my mp3, someone said there's a codec for playing mp3's in xmms? Anyhow, I have way too many questions to begin asking them all here and I really don't know where to start so I'm looking forward to an installfest, and perhaps someone would be willing to show me how to compile and do a few other things while we're at it too? Installation was cake, the hard part is getting everything to work right. If anyone would be willing to show me a few things I'd totally appreciate it. ~Nik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From electrum at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 20:26:23 2004 From: electrum at gmail.com (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Slightly OT] GPL etc licensing... In-Reply-To: <1096591804.17863.30.camel@wkstn1> References: <32fd453704093016401fbd808@mail.gmail.com> <1096591804.17863.30.camel@wkstn1> Message-ID: <853e1ecc040930182619856b0c@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 19:50:04 -0500, Eric Lambart wrote: > I don't *believe* you have to supply any source code for BSD or LGPL. You do not have to provide source with products derived from BSD licensed code. However, there are actually two (or more) different "BSD" licenses. The older version had an advertising clause that is incompatible with the GPL: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/bsd.html LGPL and GPL are similar. If you modify a LGPL library, then you have to provide the source code upon request, just like with the GPL. The difference has to do with a program linking to a library. The FSF has this to say about linking: "When a program is linked with a library, whether statically or using a shared library, the combination of the two is legally speaking a combined work, a derivative of the original library." For static linking, they are correct, as the library code is combined with the program code into a single program binary. However, for dynamic linking, I believe they are wrong. Linking to a library does not cause any code from the library to be copied into the program binary. To my knowledge, nothing in copyright or the relevant case law says that referencing a copyrighted work causes the referencing work to become a derived work. Using is not deriving nor is it copying. Every program for Windows NT links to kernel32.dll. Does that mean that every program for Windows NT is a derivative of Windows NT? Of course not. Therefore, I don't see any practical difference between the GPL and LGPL. You can't statically link an LGPL library with a proprietary program and you can dynamically link a GPL library with a proprietary program. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Thu Sep 30 20:58:01 2004 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] hey, new to the list and new to linux. In-Reply-To: <34963.63.231.155.226.1096593044.squirrel@63.231.155.226> References: <34963.63.231.155.226.1096593044.squirrel@63.231.155.226> Message-ID: <20040930205801.0000538b@schubert> On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 21:10:44 -0400 (EDT) nik@black-nyx.com wrote: > Hey, > Just wanted to introduce myself. I'm new to linux, I've just put > linux on my computer after getting incredibly bored with the > capabilities or lack there of of Winblows. I'm definitely computer > literate and I'm definitely willing to learn but as of now, my > computer is fairly useless and I can't get much to work. Welcome! > I'm having > tons of problems with my sound, I can get certain system like sounds > such as error beeps when I do something wrong, or when I log onto > Gnome, but it wont let me hear any sounds. I'm still learning about > whats needed to hear my mp3, someone said there's a codec for > playing mp3's in xmms? Anyhow, I have way too many questions to > begin asking them all here and I really don't know where to start so > I'm looking forward to an installfest, and perhaps someone would be > willing to show me how to compile and do a few other things while > we're at it too? Installation was cake, the hard part is getting > everything to work right. If anyone would be willing to show me a > few things I'd totally appreciate it. First things first, what distribution did you install? Redhat I'm guessing if you're new... What brand/model of sound card? I've always had difficulties setting up sound for some reason. Once you get it working though it'll stay working. :) Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kfuchs at winternet.com Thu Sep 30 21:28:53 2004 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Slightly OT] GPL etc licensing... In-Reply-To: <32fd453704093016401fbd808@mail.gmail.com> (message from Keith Bachman on Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:40:18 -0500) References: <32fd453704093016401fbd808@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200410010228.i912Srw18875@ecstasy1.winternet.com> Keith Bachman wrote: >I need to know which way I have to do this, as I have a product I'm >going to be making (called 3AM - basically a CD/DVD set of software to >install on a windows system after fresh install) >http://www.bnac.biz/products/3am/ >(page NOT up yet) >The question I have is this: If I provide a GPL or similarly licensed >product (LGPL, BSD, etc) I know that I am supposed to provide the >source as well. Now, do I have to provide the source at the same >time, or can I just point them to the project's homepage, saying that >they can get the source from there? You can point to someone else's server only if you are a non-profit. If you make a profit on redistributing GPL software, you must bare the expense of providing the source code, but you can charge the recipient a fee for doing so. Only non-profits can point to the servers of any (upstream) source code providers. LGPL is almost certainly no different. I have no comment about the BSD license in this regard. Sincerely, Ken Fuchs _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 23:10:08 2004 From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:54:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Slightly OT] GPL etc licensing... In-Reply-To: <200410010228.i912Srw18875@ecstasy1.winternet.com> References: <32fd453704093016401fbd808@mail.gmail.com> <200410010228.i912Srw18875@ecstasy1.winternet.com> Message-ID: <32fd4537040930211072ebf01c@mail.gmail.com> I am planning on selling this product, so I'll just make sure I grab sources as I go, and if space allows, just put them on the CD/DVD. Shouldn't be too much more room. Then I don't have to worry about anything either. Thanks for all the help guys! _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Wed Sep 1 14:58:09 2004 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:54:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] TCLUG Meeting postponed Message-ID: <20040901193139.GE25311@fandre.com> Due to the Labor day weekend, the TCLUG meeting will be postponed until September 11th. I'll send out more information about it early next week. -- Clay _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Fri Sep 10 02:38:58 2004 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:54:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] No September TCLUG meeting Message-ID: <20040910034339.GA29145@fandre.com> Sorry for the short notice, but there will be no September TCLUG meeting. We'll have one in October for sure. -- Clay _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blayne at puklich.com Mon Sep 13 10:52:52 2004 From: blayne at puklich.com (Blayne Puklich) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:54:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] MNVUG Meeting Friday 9/24 Message-ID: <2147483647.1094630902@[172.25.2.27]> Hi folks! Attached you should find a spiffy announcement for the upcoming Minnesota VERITAS Users Group meeting. Please let me know if you have trouble opening and/or reading this and I'll try to help. This time around VERITAS is keeping track of the headcount for who is attending, so please let them know soon so you're counted! Here are directions to the Roseville VERITAS facility just in case. See you there! >From 694: Exit south 35W, follow towards downtown Minneapolis Take County D exit Turn left, crossing over 35W Turn right on Cleveland Ave south Turn right into 2815 Cleveland Ave parking lot >From downtown Minneapolis: Take 35W north out of downtown Exit Cleveland Ave/County C Keep left at the fork in the ramp Turn left on Cleveland Ave Turn left into 2815 Cleveland Ave parking lot --- Blayne Puklich Minneapolis, MN PGP Key ID: 0xC52CA6C1 * mailto:blayne at puklich.com I'd explain it to you, but your brain would explode. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: announce_20040924.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 36760 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20040913/88d0b7fa/announce_20040924.pdf -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blayne at puklich.com Sat Sep 18 15:03:34 2004 From: blayne at puklich.com (Blayne Puklich) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:54:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] REMINDER: MNVUG Meeting Friday 9/24 Message-ID: <2147483647.1095330208@[172.25.2.27]> Just a friendly reminder about the upcoming VERITAS Minnesota User's Group meeting. Attached is the announcement for this event. Please let me know if you have trouble opening and/or reading this and I'll try to help. We'd like to have a good idea of how many folks are planning on attending by Monday, September 20, so please sign up quickly! Remember, there's free food and drink involved, and an RSVP is necessary. VERITAS is keeping track of the headcount for who is attending, so please let them know soon so you're counted. You can sign up by following this link: http://www.veritas.com/Vrt/offer?_requestid=24649&a_id=7916& Here are directions to the Roseville VERITAS facility just in case. See you there! >From 694: Exit south 35W, follow towards downtown Minneapolis Take County D exit Turn left, crossing over 35W Turn right on Cleveland Ave south Turn right into 2815 Cleveland Ave parking lot >From downtown Minneapolis: Take 35W north out of downtown Exit Cleveland Ave/County C Keep left at the fork in the ramp Turn left on Cleveland Ave Turn left into 2815 Cleveland Ave parking lot --- Blayne Puklich Minneapolis, MN PGP Key ID: 0xC52CA6C1 * mailto:blayne at puklich.com I'd explain it to you, but your brain would explode. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: announce_20040924.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 36760 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20040918/bbd6ca2e/announce_20040924.pdf -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kc0iog at gmail.com Sun Sep 19 13:40:00 2004 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:54:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] SCALUG Announcement: Installfest Sept 25 Message-ID: <2c6699da04091905132cb58c1f@mail.gmail.com> We have just finalized our plans for the upcoming SCALUG installfest in St. Cloud. We're going to be taking over Dijital Majik for the afternoon and learnin' folks about linux. We'll kick off at noon, and probably run til 6:00 or so. For info and directions, take a look at the new SCALUG site at http://scalug.mn-linux.org Also, be sure to take the poll so we can get an idea of who's coming. -Brian _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tex at nerp.net Sun Sep 19 17:42:03 2004 From: tex at nerp.net (tex@nerp.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:54:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] Beer Meetings Are Back! Message-ID: <2584.65.27.99.20.1095625369.squirrel@webmail.nerp.net> Hello Everyone, Yes, Beer Meetings are back and are now monthly events!! Help keep the tradition alive and join us at Great Waters on Friday. Simply ask for the "Linux" table. Have a great week and hope to see you there! http://beer.tclug.org Thank you, Deborah Dotson I listen: tex@nerp.net _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Thu Sep 30 09:12:44 2004 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:54:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] No October Meeting Message-ID: <20040930141244.GF15388@fandre.com> We will not be having an October TCLUG meeting. I'be been extremely busy and haven't had time to try and find a speaker. I am looking for someone to help coordinate TCLUG events, mainly meetings, so let me know if you are interested. But there is good news. I do have a speaker lined up for next month. Plus I am working on getting an installfest scheduled for October or November. (If you know of space we can hold one, let me know) -- Clay _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list