>>>>> "Florin" == Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> writes: >> Chacun a son gout. Here's someone's inflammatory assessment of Java. >> If it doesn't match your experience, feel free to ignore it. But it's >> a good rant: >> >> "Object-oriented programming generates a lot of what looks like >> work. Back in the days of fanfold, there was a type of programmer who >> would only put five or ten lines of code on a page, preceded by twenty >> lines of elaborately formatted comments. Object-oriented programming >> is like crack for these people: it lets you incorporate all this >> scaffolding right into your source code. Something that a Lisp hacker >> might handle by pushing a symbol onto a list becomes a whole file of >> classes and methods. So it is a good tool if you want to convince >> yourself, or someone else, that you are doing a lot of work." --- >> http://www.paulgraham.com/noop.html Florin> Cute, but far from the point. You don't program business Florin> applications just by pushing symbols into lists. This seems staggeringly point-missing. You don't program business applications by doing transitive closure, single source shortest path, or implementing a heap either, but these can be very helpful. >> Every time I think about using Java, I am astounded by what a blizzard >> of objects I have to grapple with to do what seems to me to be the >> simplest thing. For example, the difference between what it takes to >> get something displayed on the screen in Java + Swing and perl + tk, >> or tcl/tk. For example, the test scroll pane thing, draws a picture >> and lets you scroll over it, which I opened at random to in a Swing >> book, consumes about 30 lines. That's approximately as much as is >> consumed by a sample graph editor (micro-Visio) in Ousterhout's Tcl >> book. And you just let the wish interpreter have at it, modding it as >> you go. No heavy lifting with the IDE, the editor, etc. Tcl isn't >> really to my taste, but that's a pretty good example of what I mean by >> a high-level languge. Florin> Show me the equivalent in Lisp. Never said you'd do this in lisp. Pretty much deprecated as a language for GUIs. But so what? Who'd bother doing text processing in C when there's perl? Why would you develop a database application in MATLAB? If you recall the whole thing started with someone saying "why don't you all love Java?" For GUIs I mentioned the advantages of Python, perl and tcl. As does Graham; if you read his article "Great Hackers." Graham's articles all seem to aim at two points: if it's boring to you; don't do it and demand the best tools. You're right; if you want to wallop code for a PHB, it's not the way to go. But it's a vision for a life working on software that's creative and fulfilling. Cheers, R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list at mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list