This is interesting because it's always the experienced SA's that are cranky. ;-) I'm speaking from experience as a windows & Netware SA for years and observing the SA's I've known and worked with. I believe when the fun runs out of something we as SA's get cranky. We all need to learn new things on a regular basis, so the issues we fixed long ago that we slaved over, the 2:00 am issues, we don't want to deal with them. It's a bad experience to relive, even if at the time it seamed to be fun. Sometimes it's the same dam problem that we had yesterday, rearing its head again. The long hours SA's put in don't help either. The brain's a funny place to live. When we are in a position to help sometimes we forget to give more then just an answer at times. The short, trite answer can really put people off in a hurry. I think we need to sit back and read our answers from a different perspective before sending them. I have very thick skin so I'm not put off by a sharp answer easily. (Thick head to...) Finding something that's new and fun so we can relate to the newbie experience again is important. My old 486 laptop has put a new spring in my step when it comes to learning. I think I'm even going to rebuild my Redhat box with the Debian base from diskette, I may not put X windows on it. Having a machine with just the base on it is nice. I know what I have on it and what tools I can use. I don't have stuff I don't need, software I don't use on a regular basis. Yes, I have thousands of applications to choose from, with a 200 mb hard disk, I have to be very careful. I have to make due with what I have. While I'm learning Linux I find that I can speak in a more informing voice and show more concern for the windows newbies who I'm in contact with. I get questions from people I worked with years ago (not SA's at that time), out of the blue comes WINS and SNA server questions. I hate WINS and SNA needs to die! Both gave me fits in the wee hours at least once. But I sat back and thought about the beers we had 5 years ago, my answers changed. By the way I just told 2 guys to join TCLUG, they are taking a Linux class at a VoTech in ST. Paul. Both are windows power users, both have Linux and windows at home. Joining a user group is sometimes intimidating until people get to know you. I'm a nut case anyway, I write long eMails and I tend to talk a lot after a few beers. Sam. Callum Lerwick wrote: >>Yeah... yeah... yeah... well, what if the experienced users are just a bunch of grumpy, surly, crusty, cantankerous old bastards* that nobody wants to hear from anyway ;-) >> >> > >I say we split it into tclug-list and >tclug-surly-old-gurus-that-are-tired-of-listening-to-stupid-newbie-questions-list. > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list at mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list