On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 20:01:41 -0600, Lawrence Clemens <lclemens at mn.rr.com> wrote: > MessageThanks for these suggestions! If these work or if any other > TCLUGers have suggestions that work, the reward is my Post Versalog > slide rule (circa 1957) complete with leather case and belt buckle > loop. The cursor is missing on one side, but I think you can devise a > work around ;) I have Gentoo and Fluxbox on my p2 400 -best choice I've made (I've had redhat and mandrake and Lycrios and ....) I like flux AND Gentoo so much that I wiped my main linux box last week and compiled gentoo and flux from scratch - both systems are fast as all get out! Man I like gentoo... and flux - just tickles me pink! I actually go through some withdrawl over the weekend.... can't wait for mondays to play on my ultra super fast neat-o Gentoo/fluxbox box...pretty sick eh? Did I mention that I like slide rules too? would you like to maybe even sell yours? - :) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John T. Hoffoss > To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 4:19 PM > Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools > > > Fluxbox. Blackbox. IceWM. FVWM. FVWM2. All simple to use, simple to > configure. low memory usage, fast loading. I've used flux on my p2-300 > laptop for quite awhile now, and as soon as X has the screen drawn, my > desktop is up. No progress bar, no ugly X-default background until the > window manager starts, it's just there. > > If you're looking for a full desktop environment, the pickin's get > slimmer, but many of these will still work. There are other apps that > will allow icons and such. Rox Desktop comes to mind, though I've never > used it or heard many great things about it. > > Hope that's a good start. > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Lawrence Clemens > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 4:07 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools > > > Fine. I was using a slide rule before most TCLUGers were born. > > Now has anyone got a Linux with GUI that will run on a 266MHz > machine with 64 MB RAM? Thanks. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lawrence Clemens > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 11:51 AM > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools > > > I believe this organization supplies free computers to needy kids > from low income families. I believe they take donated computers and > install an MS OS on them and other software. They pay an intermediate > organization a $5 license fee for each W98 SE or W2K they install, this > fee covers the intermediate organization's record keeping and policing > these programs (nationwide) to make sure the recipients (could be kids, > low-income adults, single moms with no computer skills, etc.) meet > Microsoft's requirements and that see that licenses don't get pirated > and that some accounting or record keeping is kept. That makes them > Microsoft Approved Refurbishers. You can see the whole program at > https://www.techsoup.org/mar/ > > If you want to do a charitable program that has some breadth and > scope, the MS way is presently the only way to go, much as I'd like to > think Linux has a shot. Here's why: most of the computers that would > be available for donation or for purchase by lot at auction for a > reasonable price are going to be Pentium 1 and 2's with speeds about 166 > to 300 MHz, maybe as high as 450 MHz. Older machines like 386's and > 486's are to slow for any practical use with W98 (MS does not support > W95). So one can load the OS and then a lot of freeware (OO, Abiword, > lots more to make it functional). One can put on a cheap winmodem ($10 > or less) and access the Internet. (The only modems that would work on > 386 and 486's would be the more expensive hardware modems or the few > remaining modems that sold as expensive " ISA legacy replacements".) > > Why won't Linux work? Several reasons: > > All practical computer use by ordinary people is done with a GUI. > The Linux GUI is getting better and better but at a speed cost. So > while W98 will run perfectly fine on a 166 MHz machine with 32 MB RAM, I > challenge anyone to show me a Linux system with a functional GUI that > will run on even a 266MHz P2 with 64 MB RAM. (I've tried mainstream > stuff like SuSE and Mandrake, and the trimmed down offerings like > Koppix, Morphix, and DSL - they can't do it.) Even if you load Open > Office on a Windows Pentium machine there better be 64 MB RAM. To my > mind this is OK, Linux developers have reasonably gone with the flow to > faster machines and designed for them. In a couple of years maybe the > low end computers available for donation or auction will be fast enough > to run Linux GUI systems. > > When they are available, they still won't be good products for > these kids or moms, because each system has to be configured for the > peripherals (rehab volunteers like me have just so much time to donate > per machine). So maybe you can put a cheap winmodem on a Linux system > (in two years the state of art for Linux has moved some distance in this > respect), but odds are very long that it will have to be configured or > compiled individually, and the hook up to the Internet (after kid or mom > gets this thing home) will not be simple like the Windows setup. Or a > printer is not a slam dunk. Say the kid gets home and a week later > someone gives him a printer? Lots of luck! Unless his next door > neighbor is a System Administrator it won't get configured or compiled, > even with the friendliest of systems. Then imagine if someone wanted to > add a scanner! > > Thanks for the chance to speak to this. I think the Linux folks > are doing a great job, and maybe closing the gap. But I read the posts > to this group with some frequency and see even the adept among you > routinely run into the type of problems that I am describing. Look at > your Installfests - nifty as they are and you donate a lot of hours to > put Linux into beginner's hands. Look at the beginners you are helping: > they are often bright young people or old computer hands that just need > a push forward. Think about how an installfest for 10 year old's from > broken homes would go. > > So Microsoft has this outreach program that is both charitable and > defensive at the same time. Get 'em hooked on Windows early and fight > off criticism about operating systems being too expensive for low income > people. You can impute bad motives, but the same guy is giving $500 > million to fight AIDS around the globe. And does he have a system that > works? You bet. > > BTW if I have gotten it all wrong and you have systems that are > dropins to older computers and easily adapt peripherals, I would love to > hear from you and get educated. That's what TLUG is for. Thanks for > the forum. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ryan Hayle" <hackel at walkingfish.com> > To: "TCLUG Mailing List" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 12:55 AM > Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools > > > > Is anyone affiliated with or heard of this organization? It > sounds like > > an absolutely great program, but it has an obvious problem: > "Microsoft > > Authorized Refurbisher." Linux is the best choice for any school > > computer lab--I just hate to see our funding-starved schools > wasting > > money on MS licenses. MCFS offers a 32-seat PIII Computer Lab > for > > $8700. Imagine what percentage of that is MS licenses! Must be > 20% at > > least! > > > > Anyways, I thought I would see if this topic has ever been > brought up > > before, either with this organization or as an independent > project. > > Setting up Linux labs for schools has been a big interest of > > mine--especially setting up Linux Terminal Server labs on old > > hardware--this alone could save schools thousands, or at the > very least > > allow them to open additional labs or provide a terminal in > every class. > > What do you think? > > > > Ryan > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list at mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list at mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list at mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list