I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002.  If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation".  If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967.

I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002.

Thank you,
Jean 

>>> tclug-list 02/18/02 20:38 >>>

Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
	tclug-list at mn-linux.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1966 - 2 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles)

--__--__--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:10:38 -0600
From: "Jean Ahles" <Jean.Ahles at us.fortis.com>
To: <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1966 - 2 msgs (OoO - )
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002.  If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation".  If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967.

I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002.

Thank you,
Jean 

>>> tclug-list 02/18/02 20:04 >>>

Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
	tclug-list at mn-linux.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Dave Sherohman)
   2. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1965 - 8 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles)

-- __--__-- 

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:06:06 -0600
From: Dave Sherohman <esper at sherohman.org>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box!
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 06:24:25PM -0600, Mike Hicks wrote:
> and even kill netscape when it locks up (okay, they'd probably need a crib
> sheet for that, and sooner or later, someone will make a KDE or Gnome
> applet to do it for them).

I was sure that Debian had a WindowMaker dockapp packaged which would
kill all running netscape processes, but it seems to have
disappeared.  I don't think I imagined it...

-- 
When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists
have already won. - reverius

Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss

-- __--__-- 

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:34:40 -0600
From: "Jean Ahles" <Jean.Ahles at us.fortis.com>
To: <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1965 - 8 msgs (OoO - )
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002.  If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation".  If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967.

I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002.

Thank you,
Jean 

>>> tclug-list 02/18/02 19:29 >>>

Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
	tclug-list at mn-linux.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: IBM history (David Dyer-Bennet)
   2. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Mike Hicks)
   3. Re: Making POP3 Work (David Dyer-Bennet)
   4. RE: How to play music on Linux box! (Terry Houle)
   5. OT: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! (Rodd Ahrenstorff)
   6. Re: IBM history (Mike Hicks)
   7. Re: Making POP3 Work [OT] (Daniel Churchill)
   8. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1964 - 6 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles)

--  __--__--  

Message: 1
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history
From: David Dyer-Bennet <dd-b at dd-b.net>
Date: 18 Feb 2002 18:23:07 -0600
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

Glenn McDavid <gmcdavid at winternet.com> writes:

> After reading:
> 
> > The first computer I programmed did not have any sort of disk drive.
> > It had 20,000 *decimal digits* of magnetic core memory.
> 
> I immediately thought:  That sounds like an IBM 1620.
> 
> Then I saw the msg was from
> 
> > David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b at dd-b.net
> 
> and realized that I had used the same machine at Carleton College.

Yep.  It was very convenient, except for my count of types of
computers used, that Carleton and the higshchool had the same
computer. 

> IIRC, the IBM 1130, mentioned on the web page, was marketed in part as a
> replacement for the 1620.

Yes, that's my understanding; something for the low end of the
"scientific" market as opposed to the "data processing market".  I did
some programming on the IBM 1130 over at St. Olaf while I was in
highschool, too.  A third-generation replacement for the 1620.  

(I know you know this, Glenn, but since the terminology passed out of
use some time ago, I'll explain to anybody who *doesn't* know that
"first generation" computers were based on vacuum tubes, "second
generation" were based on discrete transistors (the IBM 1620 and 1401
were of the second generation), and "third generation" computers were
based on integrated circuit chips.  Microprocessors weren't viewed as
a new generation and weren't routinely given a generation number,
people didn't seen them taking over until it was too late.)
-- 
David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b at dd-b.net  /  Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries
        Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/
                 Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/

--  __--__--  

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:24:25 -0600
From: Mike Hicks <hick0088 at tc.umn.edu>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box!
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

--=.ANO58:tSNyp/ns
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Ben Lutgens <blutgens at sistina.com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 03:37:27PM -0600, James Spinti wrote:
> >Having a bad user day, Ben :(  Or just need to stir the pot a bit?
> 
> Neither, i just think we shouldn't push people to try linux. Let them
> discover it on thier own. Otherwise, inevitably they'll have a hard time
> then they'll tell everyone they know that it sucks (which wouldn't be
> totally unreasonable since it would be thier opinion)

I don't think anyone is being forced to try it.  People aren't going to go
if they aren't interested, are they?

Haven't you ever been happy when someone recommended a good food or drink?
Ever look at something and think, "I've got to have that!"  Why did you
decide it's a good idea to learn how to talk?

You never know when someone might see some obvious benefit to what you
show them.  Whether it's showing someone how to drive or how to do audio
in Linux (okay, I don't know who in their right mind would, but there's no
telling what could happen ;-)

> Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to
> use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort
> of thing.

If that's true, then why do they have business using Windows or any
computer with any OS, for that matter?  Take their cellphone away!  Send
them to Pennsylvania to live on an Amish farm -- or is the butter churn
too complex?

There are people who could not, even if they spent their entire lives,
learn how to use Linux.  However, a *ton* of the people out there could
quickly learn to use StarOffice, drag-n-drop files onto XMMS to play them,
and even kill netscape when it locks up (okay, they'd probably need a crib
sheet for that, and sooner or later, someone will make a KDE or Gnome
applet to do it for them).

I will grant that there are problems when it comes to configuring and
installing systems.  There's research out there that says 90% of people
leave things the way they are and woudln't twiddle the knob if their life
depended on it.  Even pros succumb to it once in a while. Do you delete
the superfluous icons that land on your desktop after you install
something in Windows?  

Hmm..  My flame quota has been exceeded for the month..

-- 
 _  _  _  _ _  ___    _ _  _  ___ _ _  __   A waist is a terrible thing
/ \/ \(_)| ' // ._\  / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__   to mind.
\_||_/|_||_|_\\___/  \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __)  
[ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088 at tc.umn.edu ]

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--=.ANO58:tSNyp/ns--


--  __--__--  

Message: 3
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Making POP3 Work
From: David Dyer-Bennet <dd-b at dd-b.net>
Date: 18 Feb 2002 18:26:55 -0600
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

Scott Raun <sraun at fireopal.org> writes:

> OK, I got a telnet session into port 110, and it claims to be talking.
> 
> Is there something that I have to do for a user account to be able to
> access POP3?

Insufficient data.  The POP3 server you run has to be compatible with
the way that user's email is stored, and has to know how to validate
that user's access.  Are they a a regular user (have a user id and a
line in /etc/passwd), or something else?  Is their mail delivered into
an mbox, maildir, or something else, where is it located, and what is
it named?  What POP3 server is it you're trying to get going?
-- 
David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b at dd-b.net  /  Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries
        Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/
                 Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/

--  __--__--  

Message: 4
From: "Terry Houle" <houle at citilink.com>
To: <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: RE: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box!
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:24:47 -0600
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

Well

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-admin at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-admin at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Ben Lutgens
> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 2:01 PM
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box!
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote:
> >
> >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable
> >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk
> >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer.
> >
>
> Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows"
> users. There's very little reason for them to switch.

Well as President of the Twin Cities PC Users group we will use my laptop
for the presentation.  It is dual booting with Red Hat Linux.
I am trying to switch but have to understand it before I can do that.  The
only reason not to switch is cause I don't understand it.
So that will probably start the flames.
BTW if I can post to the Annoucne I will put these type posts on there in
the future.  I thought only the admins could post to it but I will check it
out.
terry houle

 --
> Ben Lutgens		http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/
>
>


--  __--__--  

Message: 5
From: Rodd Ahrenstorff <rahrenstorff at yahoo.com>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: OT: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box!
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:34:31 -0600
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

On Monday 18 February 2002 5:28 pm, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote:
> On Monday 18 February 2002 4:05 pm, Ben Lutgens wrote:
<snip the blah, blah...>

I thought Yahoo sourced email did not get throught to the list?  Has this 
changed?  I accidently sent this using smtp.mail.yahoo.com.

> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul,
> Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

--  __--__--  

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:44:58 -0600
From: Mike Hicks <hick0088 at tc.umn.edu>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

--=.'kI?uMuSFw6k8c
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

David Dyer-Bennet <dd-b at dd-b.net> wrote:
>
> Robert Leduc <robertl at ccbr.umn.edu> writes:
> > 
> > I'm old enough to ask if you mean the 386 Intel chip or
> > the old IBM 386 mainframe.
> 
> That's too old for me.  386?  I know of the 360 and 370, of course.
> Descendants, a couple of generations later, of the 1401 I programmed
> in my first paid programming job.

There were the System/36 and the System/38.  Is there some strange
concatenation you're coming up with?

-- 
 _  _  _  _ _  ___    _ _  _  ___ _ _  __   It's a Mexican standoff.
/ \/ \(_)| ' // ._\  / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__   Only we ain't got no
\_||_/|_||_|_\\___/  \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __)  Mexicans.
[ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088 at tc.umn.edu ]

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--=.'kI?uMuSFw6k8c--


--  __--__--  

Message: 7
From: Daniel Churchill <churchid at visi.com>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Making POP3 Work [OT]
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:50:26 -0600
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

On Monday 18 February 2002 06:26 pm, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
> Scott Raun <sraun at fireopal.org> writes:
> > OK, I got a telnet session into port 110, and it claims to be talking.
> >
> > Is there something that I have to do for a user account to be able to
> > access POP3?
>
> Insufficient data.  The POP3 server you run has to be compatible with
> the way that user's email is stored, and has to know how to validate
> that user's access.  Are they a a regular user (have a user id and a
> line in /etc/passwd), or something else?  Is their mail delivered into
> an mbox, maildir, or something else, where is it located, and what is
> it named?  What POP3 server is it you're trying to get going?

This was a time-warp message from Oct (do NOT respond to talk about the 
time-warp - if you don't know what I'm talking about, check the list 
archives).  I believe it made sense in the context of the thread at the 
time...

Scott, if you're still on the list and haven't resolved this yet you'll 
have to let us know details again.

Dan

--  __--__--  

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:01:58 -0600
From: "Jean Ahles" <Jean.Ahles at us.fortis.com>
To: <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1964 - 6 msgs (OoO - )
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002.  If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation".  If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967.

I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002.

Thank you,
Jean 

>>> tclug-list 02/18/02 18:56 >>>

Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
	tclug-list at mn-linux.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
	tclug-list-admin at mn-linux.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Samir M. Nassar)
   2. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens)
   3. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens)
   4. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens)
   5. Re: IBM history (David Dyer-Bennet)
   6. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1963 - 3 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles)

--   __--__--   

Message: 1
From: "Samir M. Nassar" <nassarsa at redconcepts.net>
Organization: RedConcepts.NET
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box!
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:07:19 -0600
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

Windows 3.1 was not any easier to learn when moving from MS-DOS than when 
moving from Windows to Linux. I had a hard time moving from command line to 
GUI. I had just a hard time moving back to limited GUI use when moving to 
Linux.

As an aside, I am trying out Ximian GNOME (on RH 7.2) and it looks nice. 
Between RedCarpet and up2date it should make life easy for newbies.

I would hope that one day all third world countries have Operating System 
Institutes funded by taxes and run by Universities and Non-profit 
foundations. Prefferably these institutes would create Linux distros and 
kernel modifications that are necessary for that country.

<tongue-in-cheek />The Palestinian Operating System Institute (POSI) would 
run POSIX, the POSI Exchange, sort of a national Sourceforge.......

I guess this doesn't really concern most people, but it does address the 
question of why convert people to Windows.

Why one asks? Because it is better.

Oh, another thing. My little brother 16 and 13 with only windows experience 
automatically took to linux. So when I go home this summer I'll install 
RedHat 7.2 so that they can play their favorite game again. (Tux Racer)

-- 
Samir M. Nassar
RedConcepts.NET

--   __--__--   

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:11:21 -0600
From: Ben Lutgens <blutgens at sistina.com>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box!
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org


--HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 04:44:09PM -0600, Mike Hicks wrote:
>Ben can come off sounding pretty harsh..  I'm still not sure if he's just
>schizo or if he likes to play devil's advocate and not tell anyone.  Oh
>yeah, he likes flamewars, too, so it's probably impossible to say :-p

No, I really think most people should stay away from linux. Where "most peo=
ple" is casual non-technical
users. Those people should stick to mickeysoft or Mac products.

--=20
Ben Lutgens		http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09
Sistina Software Inc.

pub  1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens <blutgens at sistina.com>
     Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361  F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59
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--   __--__--   

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:12:25 -0600
From: Ben Lutgens <blutgens at sistina.com>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box!
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org


--cmJC7u66zC7hs+87
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On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 05:28:14PM -0600, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote:
>
>Most of those people might just tell you to kiss-off Ben.  Do you mean thi=
s=20
>open source operating system is meant for only the guru geek type admins? =
 My=20
>mom is using Lycoris Desktop/lx right now...and she had never used Windows=
 at=20
>all.  My brother is also using Mandrake on his laptop.  Maybe it's your=20
>family members who aren't right-in-the-head :^)
>

Good for them. Good for you. And yes my family probably is a little off.

--=20
Ben Lutgens		http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09
Sistina Software Inc.

pub  1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens <blutgens at sistina.com>
     Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361  F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59
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--cmJC7u66zC7hs+87--

--   __--__--   

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:14:13 -0600
From: Ben Lutgens <blutgens at sistina.com>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box!
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org


--UFHRwCdBEJvubb2X
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On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 06:07:19PM -0600, Samir M. Nassar wrote:
>
>As an aside, I am trying out Ximian GNOME (on RH 7.2) and it looks nice.=
=20
>Between RedCarpet and up2date it should make life easy for newbies.

Yeah provided you not behind a firewall.=20

--=20
Ben Lutgens		http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09
Sistina Software Inc.

pub  1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens <blutgens at sistina.com>
     Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361  F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59
sub  1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12

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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--UFHRwCdBEJvubb2X--

--   __--__--   

Message: 5
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history
From: David Dyer-Bennet <dd-b at dd-b.net>
Date: 18 Feb 2002 18:18:18 -0600
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

Robert Leduc <robertl at ccbr.umn.edu> writes:

> On 18 Feb 2002, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
> 
> > Jay Kline <list at slushpupie.com> writes:
> > 
> > > On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote:
> > > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast!
> > > >
> > > 
> > > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-)
> > > (Though I did use a 386 previously)
> > 
> > I feel old. 
> > 
> > Do you feel young?
> > 
> > I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386.  
> >
> 
> I'm old enough to ask if you mean the 386 Intel chip or
> the old IBM 386 mainframe.

That's too old for me.  386?  I know of the 360 and 370, of course.
Descendants, a couple of generations later, of the 1401 I programmed
in my first paid programming job.
-- 
David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b at dd-b.net  /  Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries
        Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/
                 Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/

--   __--__--   

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:26:20 -0600
From: "Jean Ahles" <Jean.Ahles at us.fortis.com>
To: <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1963 - 3 msgs (OoO - )
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002.  If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation".  If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967.

I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002.

Thank you,
Jean 

>>> tclug-list 02/18/02 18:21 >>>

Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
	tclug-list at mn-linux.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Rodd Ahrenstorff)
   2. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Rodd Ahrenstorff)
   3. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1962 - 6 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles)

--    __--__--    

Message: 1
From: Rodd Ahrenstorff <rahrenstorff at yahoo.com>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box!
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:28:14 -0600
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

On Monday 18 February 2002 4:05 pm, Ben Lutgens wrote:
> Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to
> use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort
> of thing.

Most of those people might just tell you to kiss-off Ben.  Do you mean this 
open source operating system is meant for only the guru geek type admins?  My 
mom is using Lycoris Desktop/lx right now...and she had never used Windows at 
all.  My brother is also using Mandrake on his laptop.  Maybe it's your 
family members who aren't right-in-the-head :^)

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


--    __--__--    

Message: 2
From: Rodd Ahrenstorff <rahrenstorff at yahoo.com>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box!
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:29:41 -0600
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

On Monday 18 February 2002 4:05 pm, Ben Lutgens wrote:
> Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to
> use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort
> of thing.

Most of those people might just tell you to kiss-off Ben.  Do you mean this 
open source operating system is meant for only the guru geek type admins?  My 
mom is using Lycoris Desktop/lx right now...and she had never used Windows at 
all.  My brother is also using Mandrake on his laptop.  Maybe it's your 
family members who aren't right-in-the-head :^)


--    __--__--    

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:52:56 -0600
From: "Jean Ahles" <Jean.Ahles at us.fortis.com>
To: <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1962 - 6 msgs (OoO - )
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002.  If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation".  If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967.

I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002.

Thank you,
Jean 

>>> tclug-list 02/18/02 17:47 >>>

Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
	tclug-list at mn-linux.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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You can reach the person managing the list at
	tclug-list-admin at mn-linux.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Mike Hicks)
   2. Re: IBM history (Ben Lutgens)
   3. Making POP3 Work (Scott Raun)
   4. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1961 - 14 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles)
   5. Re: IBM history (Glenn McDavid)
   6. Re: xf86config (Matthew S. Hallacy)

--     __--__--     

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:44:09 -0600
From: Mike Hicks <hick0088 at tc.umn.edu>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box!
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

--=.UKdxPy7nF02Ym=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Daniel Churchill <churchid at visi.com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote:
> > 
> > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows"
> > users. There's very little reason for them to switch.
>
> You bother because there are some users who have no experienc with Linx, 
> or who heard a horror story from a friend about some other friend of 
> theirs who tried Linux and couldn't get their sound to work and how it's 
> such a difficult OS to deal with.  You bother to show such users that 
> Linux really isn't that difficult.

Heh, reminds me that I switched from OS/2 to Linux due to the fact that
sound worked better in Linux.  Creative dropped support for OS/2 around
the time I started getting into Linux, so it just pushed me further along
the path.

> I'ts this sort of cynical "you stay on your side of the fence and I'll 
> stay on mine" attitude that poisons people toward even considering Linux 
> as an alternative, IMHO.

Ben can come off sounding pretty harsh..  I'm still not sure if he's just
schizo or if he likes to play devil's advocate and not tell anyone.  Oh
yeah, he likes flamewars, too, so it's probably impossible to say :-p

-- 
 _  _  _  _ _  ___    _ _  _  ___ _ _  __   If a word in the dictionary
/ \/ \(_)| ' // ._\  / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__   were mispelled, how would
\_||_/|_||_|_\\___/  \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __)  we know?
[ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088 at tc.umn.edu ]

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--=.UKdxPy7nF02Ym=--


--     __--__--     

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:49:23 -0600
From: Ben Lutgens <blutgens at sistina.com>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org


--Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU
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On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 04:30:38PM -0600, Robert Leduc wrote:
>> > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-)
>> > (Though I did use a 386 previously)

I'm almost 30 years old an my first computer was a P200MMX. I had used an
IBM XT when I was a kid though.

>> I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. =20

holy shit.

--=20
Ben Lutgens		http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09
Sistina Software Inc.

pub  1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens <blutgens at sistina.com>
     Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361  F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59
sub  1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12

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--Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU--

--     __--__--     

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:21:41 -0600
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
From: Scott Raun <sraun at fireopal.org>
Subject: [TCLUG] Making POP3 Work
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

OK, I got a telnet session into port 110, and it claims to be talking.

Is there something that I have to do for a user account to be able to
access POP3?

-- 
Scott Raun
sraun at fireopal.org

--     __--__--     

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:03:34 -0600
From: "Jean Ahles" <Jean.Ahles at us.fortis.com>
To: <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1961 - 14 msgs (OoO - )
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002.  If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation".  If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967.

I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002.

Thank you,
Jean 

>>> tclug-list 02/18/02 16:58 >>>

Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
	tclug-list at mn-linux.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
	tclug-list-admin at mn-linux.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: IBM history (James Spinti)
   2. Re: (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options (Chad C. Walstrom)
   3. Re: IBM history (Jay Kline)
   4. Re: (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options (Dan Drake)
   5. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Jim Kaufman)
   6. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens)
   7. Re: IBM history (David Dyer-Bennet)
   8. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Daniel Churchill)
   9. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Michael Vieths)
  10. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Dave Sherman)
  11. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (James Spinti)
  12. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Kelly Black)
  13. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens)
  14. Re: IBM history (Robert Leduc)

--      __--__--      

Message: 1
From: "James Spinti" <jspinti at dartdist.com>
To: <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:13:29 -0600
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

<snip>
Selling for as little as $1,565, the PC used an Intel 4.77 megahertz
processor and Microsoft's Disk Operating System. The machine offered memory
capacities from 16K to 256K and either one or two diskette drives. An
expanded system for business with color graphics, two diskette drives and a
printer cost about $4,500.
<snip>
Full height, 160K 5.25" floppy.

My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M,
since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS.  It came with dual
360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM
and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you installed
it yourself).

Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast!

Misty eyed,

James Spinti
jspinti at dartdist dot com
952-368-3278 ext. 396
952-368-3255 (fax)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom" <chrome at real-time.com>
To: <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 10:11 PM
Subject: [TCLUG] IBM history


> if this doesn't make your eyes glaze over, you *are* a geek. :)
>
> http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/reference/faq_0000000011.html
>
> fascinating stuff. :)
> Carl Soderstrom.
> --
> Network Engineer
> Real-Time Enterprises
> (952) 943-8700
> _______________________________________________
> Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul,
Minnesota
> http://www.mn-linux.org
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


--      __--__--      

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:16:16 -0600
From: "Chad C. Walstrom" <chewie at wookimus.net>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org


--PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9
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On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 08:17:58AM -0600, Dan Drake wrote:
> Whose bright idea was it to have `j' be the option for handling
> bzipped tarballs?=20

There was a conflict with the original GNU tar application binding for
bzip2: 'I'.  It conflicts with other *NIX/BSD'ish use of that same
option.  Other characters were suggested, but 'j' was settled upon as
the default by the GNU tar maintainers.  I'm assuming that Brad at the
Math department ran into the same conflict, but instead of following the
development discussions on the GNU tar email list, he chose -y because
it wasn't being used.  This last is just an assumption on my part, but
knowing Brad, I don't think it's too far from the truth.

--=20
Chad Walstrom <chewie at wookimus.net>                 | a.k.a. ^chewie
http://www.wookimus.net/                            | s.k.a. gunnarr
Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie at wookimus.net)

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--      __--__--      

Message: 3
From: Jay Kline <list at slushpupie.com>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:27:02 -0600
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org



On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote:
> My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M,
> since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS.  It came with dual
> 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM
> and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you
> installed it yourself).
>
> Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast!
>

Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-)
(Though I did use a 386 previously)

Jay

--      __--__--      

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:33:09 -0600
From: Dan Drake <drake+tclug at lemongecko.org>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org


--u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24
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On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 at 08:50AM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote:
> You forgot I.  A number of people favor explicitly piping between tar
> and bzip2 simply to avoid the j/y/I issue.

Good call. I should teach my fingers to do "bzcat" a bit more often.

I'm reminded of von Neumann's remark about math: "In mathematics, you
don't understand things, you just get used to them." I suppose *nix is
no different.

> > It seems like it wouldn't be difficult to extend the `z' option to
> > handle bzip2 archives, by simply looking at the file's extensions. Or
> > looking at the first bytes of the file and recognizing the binary
> > formats.
>=20
> For decoding/extracting, that makes good sense.  For encoding/
> creating an archive, it would be arguably the Wrong Thing.  z =3D gzip,
> not bzip2.

Ah, I didn't think of that. Yeah, when creating archives I usually use
"cf" (that's what my fingers do automatically) and then [g|b]zip the .tar
file.

What I really want is for tar to read my mind and do things
automatically. I'd also appreciate it if tar did my homework for me. And
I could go for some pizza right about now:

    $ tar --order-pizza
    tar: unrecognized option `--order-pizza'
    Try `tar --help' for more information.

=2E..darn. :)

Dan

--=20
| 4699  BDCB  B1A5  28B6  7F8A  F8DF  EB6A  BC2A  B0A1  99BF (GPG)
| Dan Drake <drake+tclug at lemongecko.org> | http://lemongecko.org/drake/
| public key: email <drake+gpg at lemongecko.org>

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--      __--__--      

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:41:31 -0600
From: Jim Kaufman <jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box!
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org


--BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3
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On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 11:28:12AM -0600, Ben Lutgens wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 11:13:15AM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote:
> >
> >It will be a very basic introduction to getting the sound card working
> >under Redhat 7.2, using xmms, lame and grip.
>=20
> O.k. that will take all of 5 minutes, what do you plan to do for the rest
> of the time? :-)
>=20
> --=20
> Ben Lutgens		http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09
> Sistina Software Inc.
>=20
> pub  1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens <blutgens at sistina.com>
>      Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361  F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC=
59
> sub  1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12

Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable
about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk
for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer.

--=20
_______________________________________________
Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
http://www.mn-linux.org
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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--      __--__--      

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:00:38 -0600
From: Ben Lutgens <blutgens at sistina.com>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box!
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org


--9amGYk9869ThD9tj
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote:
>
>Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable
>about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk
>for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer.
>

Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows"
users. There's very little reason for them to switch.

--=20
Ben Lutgens		http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09
Sistina Software Inc.

pub  1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens <blutgens at sistina.com>
     Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361  F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59
sub  1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12

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--      __--__--      

Message: 7
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history
From: David Dyer-Bennet <dd-b at dd-b.net>
Date: 18 Feb 2002 14:31:41 -0600
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

Jay Kline <list at slushpupie.com> writes:

> On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote:
> > My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M,
> > since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS.  It came with dual
> > 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM
> > and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you
> > installed it yourself).
> >
> > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast!
> >
> 
> Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-)
> (Though I did use a 386 previously)

I feel old. 

Do you feel young?

I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386.  

I worked on at least 8 different *types* of computer before I ever
owned a computer.

The first computer I programmed did not have any sort of disk drive.
It had 20,000 *decimal digits* of magnetic core memory.
-- 
David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b at dd-b.net  /  Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries
        Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/
                 Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/

--      __--__--      

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:46:28 -0600 (CST)
From: Daniel Churchill <churchid at visi.com>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box!
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote:
> >
> >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable
> >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk
> >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer.
> >
> 
> Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows"
> users. There's very little reason for them to switch.
>
You bother because there are some users who have no experienc with Linx, 
or who heard a horror story from a friend about some other friend of 
theirs who tried Linux and couldn't get their sound to work and how it's 
such a difficult OS to deal with.  You bother to show such users that 
Linux really isn't that difficult.

I'ts this sort of cynical "you stay on your side of the fence and I'll 
stay on mine" attitude that poisons people toward even considering Linux 
as an alternative, IMHO.

Just my $.02.

Dan 


--      __--__--      

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:42:58 -0600 (CST)
From: Michael Vieths <foeclan at visi.com>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box!
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote:
>
> Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows"
> users. There's very little reason for them to switch.

Why does anyone switch?  I could do as much on a Windows box with the
right tools, but I choose to use Linux.

Many of us were one of 'those people' at some point in our lives.  We
switched, or are switching, for some reason or other.  Maybe for somebody
it'll be 'Because someone at a PC user's group meeting showed me how'.

--
Michael Vieths
Foeclan at Visi.com



--      __--__--      

Message: 10
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box!
From: Dave Sherman <dsherman at real-time.com>
To: TC-LUG <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Date: 18 Feb 2002 15:29:28 -0600
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org


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On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote:
> Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows=
"
> users. There's very little reason for them to switch.

Troll!!

Dave
--=20
Beware the wrath of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup.

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--      __--__--      

Message: 11
From: "James Spinti" <jspinti at dartdist.com>
To: <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box!
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:37:27 -0600
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ben Lutgens" <blutgens at sistina.com>
To: <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box!

On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote:
>
>Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable
>about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk
>for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer.
>

Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows"
users. There's very little reason for them to switch.

-- 
Ben Lutgens  http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ 
Sistina Software Inc.

Having a bad user day, Ben :(  Or just need to stir the pot a bit?

check out this link, it could be worse:
http://www.ubersoft.net/d/20020212.html
or, worse yet:
http://www.ubersoft.net/d/20020213.html

Thanks,

James Spinti
jspinti at dartdist dot com
952-368-3278 ext. 396
952-368-3255 (fax)



--      __--__--      

Message: 12
From: Kelly Black <kelly-black at mediaone.net>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box!
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:43:14 -0600
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

I was once one of "those" people.  After various os's with Basic and various 
assembler chunks as the main interface, I went off to do things with DOS and 
Winders.  I since gotten myself right in the head.  Although some would 
question how much.

:-)

Kelly Black
KB0GBJ

On Monday 18 February 2002 14:42, you wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote:
> > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are
> > "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch.
>
> Why does anyone switch?  I could do as much on a Windows box with the
> right tools, but I choose to use Linux.
>
> Many of us were one of 'those people' at some point in our lives.  We
> switched, or are switching, for some reason or other.  Maybe for somebody
> it'll be 'Because someone at a PC user's group meeting showed me how'.
>
> --
> Michael Vieths
> Foeclan at Visi.com
>

--      __--__--      

Message: 13
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:05:26 -0600
From: Ben Lutgens <blutgens at sistina.com>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box!
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org


--sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
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On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 03:37:27PM -0600, James Spinti wrote:
>Having a bad user day, Ben :(  Or just need to stir the pot a bit?

Neither, i just think we shouldn't push people to try linux. Let them
discover it on thier own. Otherwise, inevitably they'll have a hard time
then they'll tell everyone they know that it sucks (which wouldn't be
totally unreasonable since it would be thier opinion)


Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to
use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort
of thing.

--=20
Ben Lutgens		http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09
Sistina Software Inc.

pub  1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens <blutgens at sistina.com>
     Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361  F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59
sub  1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12

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--sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c--

--      __--__--      

Message: 14
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:30:38 -0600 (CST)
From: Robert Leduc <robertl at ccbr.umn.edu>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org




On 18 Feb 2002, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:

> Jay Kline <list at slushpupie.com> writes:
> 
> > On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote:
> > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast!
> > >
> > 
> > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-)
> > (Though I did use a 386 previously)
> 
> I feel old. 
> 
> Do you feel young?
> 
> I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386.  
>

I'm old enough to ask if you mean the 386 Intel chip or
the old IBM 386 mainframe.

R



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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:22:52 -0600 (CST)
From: Glenn McDavid <gmcdavid at winternet.com>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history
Organization: very little
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

After reading:

> The first computer I programmed did not have any sort of disk drive.
> It had 20,000 *decimal digits* of magnetic core memory.

I immediately thought:  That sounds like an IBM 1620.

Then I saw the msg was from

> David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b at dd-b.net

and realized that I had used the same machine at Carleton College.
IIRC, the IBM 1130, mentioned on the web page, was marketed in part as a
replacement for the 1620.

Glenn McDavid
mailto:gmcdavid at winternet.com
http://www.winternet.com/~gmcdavid


--     __--__--     

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:25:14 -0600
From: "Matthew S. Hallacy" <poptix at techmonkeys.org>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] xf86config
Reply-To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

On Fri, Feb 15, 2002 at 11:49:01PM -0600, Shawn Fertch wrote:

> Cool, this worked.  Thanks Matthew.  I neglected to write down the
> settings of XF86Config when I blew away RH.  One question, what is the
> ZAxisMapping for?  Scroll wheel?  However, I did shut off gpm and
> uninstalled the package.

Yes, ZAxisMapping is for the scrollwheel.

> Shawn

-- 
Matthew S. Hallacy                            FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified
http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix                  GPG public key 0x01938203


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