From drew at usfamily.net Wed May 30 11:30:07 2001 From: drew at usfamily.net (Andrew Nemchenko) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] personal preferences: joysticks References: Message-ID: <3B15200F.E35F6378@usfamily.net> I say find one with the most programmable buttons, knobs, throttles, and guages and go with that one. mjn wrote: > On Apr 28, 2001 Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom said something like: > > > so what do people like, for jostick models out there? I'm pretty picky about > > how ergonomic the button layout is; and it better work *completely* under > > linux; but I have virtually no experience with them. > > I like the Saitek Cyborg 3d (now the Cyborg 3D Gold Stick) mostly because > of the stick-twist roll control for simulator games and it fairly > comfortable to use and easily adjustable: > > http://www.saitekusa.com/product/joy.htm > > According to this page about the LID Project, it is fully > supported; although I have not tried it. > > http://www.suse.cz/development/input/ > > ____________________________ > Mike Neuharth > ADCS Technology Specialist > http://www.umn.edu/adcs > > E-Mail : mjn@umn.edu > Page Mail : 6126486512@page.metrocall.com > http://supermonkeycollider.dyndns.org/ > ____________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: drew.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 265 bytes Desc: Card for Andrew Nemchenko Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010530/b9b147e5/drew.vcf From spudling at acm.cs.umn.edu Tue May 1 00:53:49 2001 From: spudling at acm.cs.umn.edu (Hans Davin Umhoefer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Follow-up on CD ripping problems In-Reply-To: ; from mend0070@tc.umn.edu on Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 01:13:36PM -0500 References: <15085.36469.726964.740476@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: <20010501005349.A22339@acm.cs.umn.edu> Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > But, as I said, if the disk plays well on some, not on the other, then it > may well be the player. Very reasonable to think that a servo in one > machine is flakier than others. This is all done with PLL's and funny > optics that decide how to keep the laser in the right spot over the > disc. It's definitely easier to break than software! I've been leaning towards the drive problem theory myself. I can't rip the last track on too many of my CD's (Classical, Rock, etc. even audio CDs I've had people burn for me) for it to be something with the type of music/production company. I'll be able to test this soon since I'll be getting a CD-burner tomorrow (I was supposed to have it today but UPS messed up). I'm curious to see if I can rip some of those tracks with the new drive. Hans -- Hans D Umhoefer (hans.d.umhoefer@uwrf.edu) From natecars at real-time.com Tue May 1 04:25:39 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] testing 12345... Message-ID: testing mail server after cutover. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From clay at fandre.com Tue May 1 07:50:03 2001 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Best Open Source gnutella client? References: <20010430230757.D1639@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3AEEB0FB.CCDBB769@fandre.com> Bob Tanner wrote: > > What is the best open source gnutella client? > > LimeWire looks good, but it's just binary. Yea, LimeWire is really nice. Plus it's the same on any platform and has tons of features. (http://www.limewire.com/about.htm) gtk-gnutella isn't too bad either. But real-men use gnut. (console-based) http://freshmeat.net/search/?q=gnutella Has anyone tried any of the windows-only clients under Wine? (Bear-share, etc.) From simeonuj at eetc.com Tue May 1 08:13:14 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dell and the Windows Tax References: <20010430173441.L24548@real-time.com> <20010430212839.O7366@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <3AEEB668.73BA6AC5@eetc.com> So .... what your saying is they actually sell you the computer w/ OS for what it cost's them + whatever there markup is? That seems to be kinda silly. I would sell them both for the same price and just get more money for the RH box. It would apparently make people feel better about what they are buying. No one needs to know what it cost's them. : ) Doesn't it feel nice to get the better deal for a Linux box than a WinSucky box. sim Scott Dier wrote: > * Bob Tanner [010430 17:37]: > > Same price for the same hardware, except one is running Windows 2000 and the > > other is running RedHat 7.1. > > Ok, what is oem w2k, and what is rh 7.1 professional with support again? > :) > > I think they could probally get it oem for 99.95 if htey push the issue > at best for w2k. > > how much is rh7.1 with support, 70-80$ from redhat? From nate at techie.com Tue May 1 08:31:43 2001 From: nate at techie.com (Nate Straz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Business Software Alliance... In-Reply-To: <3AEE1FB9.5D9EB463@mttcc.com>; from mthoren@mttcc.com on Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 09:30:17PM -0500 References: <3AEE1FB9.5D9EB463@mttcc.com> Message-ID: <20010501083143.A26568@candle.rawstew> On Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 09:30:17PM -0500, Matt Thoren wrote: > Has anyone else received a letter from the "Business Software Alliance" > stating that "The BSA is calling a Truce. You have until May 31 to get > legal." This is in regards to software licensing. The supposedly I heard their radio ad on the drive home last week. I just started laughing. Those poor bastards are going to be SOL when free software takes over. Nate From mthoren at mttcc.com Tue May 1 09:14:15 2001 From: mthoren at mttcc.com (Matt Thoren) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Business Software Alliance... References: <3AEE1FB9.5D9EB463@mttcc.com> <20010430215032.P7366@ringworld.org> <20010430223418.C31735@minime.sistina.com> <20010430223638.C1639@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3AEEC4B7.5357A69@mttcc.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mthoren.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 282 bytes Desc: Card for Matt Thoren Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010501/4477c124/mthoren.vcf From jeffr at odeon.net Tue May 1 09:21:40 2001 From: jeffr at odeon.net (jeffr@odeon.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] personal preferences: joysticks In-Reply-To: <20010428151423.C31999@ares> Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Apr 2001, Ben Lutgens wrote: [snip] > Joysticks suck for FPS, use mouse and keyboard instead. > > Get a joystick for descent though. That game makes me wanna vomit, too much > movement, I get desksick. [snip] Actually, I find that a joystick+mouse combo works better than the keyboard+mouse method. Use the joystick for movement, weapon selection, jump, crouch, etc, and use the mouse to aim and shoot. Jeff From kent at structural-wood.com Tue May 1 09:27:14 2001 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Business Software Alliance... References: <3AEE1FB9.5D9EB463@mttcc.com> <20010501083143.A26568@candle.rawstew> Message-ID: <3AEEC7C2.EEEE5BE8@structural-wood.com> Nate Straz wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 09:30:17PM -0500, Matt Thoren wrote: > > Has anyone else received a letter from the "Business Software Alliance" > > stating that "The BSA is calling a Truce. You have until May 31 to get > > legal." This is in regards to software licensing. The supposedly > > I heard their radio ad on the drive home last week. I just started > laughing. Those poor bastards are going to be SOL when free software > takes over. > > Nate So, Truce today, Surrender tomorrow? This whole thing is so pitiful. I feel like having come out here to verify that all my linux licenses are in order (GPL, LGPL, KPL, etc...). I also notice that Microsoft is offering a bounty for the names of people who buy 'Naked' PC's. I'm hoping General Nano turns me in and gets the bounty. Maybe we should have a LUG fundraiser where we turn each other in for the bounty? From esper at sherohman.org Tue May 1 09:42:41 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Business Software Alliance... In-Reply-To: <3AEEC7C2.EEEE5BE8@structural-wood.com>; from kent@structural-wood.com on Tue, May 01, 2001 at 09:27:14AM -0500 References: <3AEE1FB9.5D9EB463@mttcc.com> <20010501083143.A26568@candle.rawstew> <3AEEC7C2.EEEE5BE8@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <20010501094241.B17066@sherohman.org> On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 09:27:14AM -0500, Kent Schumacher wrote: > I also notice that Microsoft is offering a bounty for the names of people > who buy 'Naked' PC's. I'm hoping General Nano turns me in and gets > the bounty. It's nice propaganda and all, but nobody seems to notice that the email from MS specifically says that they want to be told about people buying PCs without an OS _because they already have an MS site license_. They're not interested in us. (Or at least they claim not to be...) -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.1: GCS d? s+: a- C++ UL++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w---$ O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv b+ DI++++ D G e* h+ r y+ From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Tue May 1 10:28:51 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Recycling Place in Egan with Outlet Message-ID: What is the name and website of the hardware recycling place in Egan with the outlet (that I can find no trace of in my workspace or in memory)? Thank you in advance. From MAJensen222 at aol.com Tue May 1 10:48:29 2001 From: MAJensen222 at aol.com (MAJensen222@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Recycling Place in Egan with Outlet Message-ID: <6c.a2572d2.282034cd@aol.com> In a message dated 5/1/01 10:30:35 AM Central Daylight Time, Troy.A.Johnson@state.mn.us writes: > What is the name and website of the hardware recycling place in Egan with > the outlet (that I can find no trace of in my workspace or in memory)? > MPC Surplus Store http://www.materialsprocessing.com/sspage.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010501/3b6b24bb/attachment.html From austad at marketwatch.com Tue May 1 10:58:07 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dvorak Message-ID: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F1098D3@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> So last night, I decided to try and learn dvorak. It's going to take a couple of days to get up to speed, but after only 2 hours on ICQ with it, I'm up to about 20wpm. If you're interested in learning, I found the best way is to save your current keymap to a file using: xmodmap -pke > keyboard.default Then grab http://www.signal15.com/keyboard.dvorak and type "xmodmap keyboard.dvorak". Then print out http://www.signal15.com/dvorak.gif and tape it to the top of your monitor. Then just start chatting on IRC or ICQ, or type up some emails. Only look at the map on your monitor if you forget where a key is. After about two hours or so of solid typing, you should be able to type without even looking at the map. I tried a couple of typing tutor programs, but they sucked compared to this method. To switch back to the qwerty, just type "xmodmap keyboard.default". Unfortunately, I haven't switched over at work yet because 20wpm isn't fast enough. And supposedly, you're supposed to only use Dvorak when you're learning or it'll take much longer, but I guess I'll take my chances. Someone posted this link on Slashdot in a comment yesterday, which was what convinced me to try to learn it: http://www.acm.vt.edu/~jmaxwell/dvorak/keyboard.html (must have java working) Another interesting thing I found was the one-handed dvorak layouts. Apparently, using these keymaps, some people can get 80wpm using only one hand. It would be nice to be able to put one hand on the keyboard and keep the other on the trackball. :) Jay From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 1 11:06:30 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Recycling Place in Egan with Outlet In-Reply-To: <6c.a2572d2.282034cd@aol.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 May 2001 MAJensen222@aol.com wrote: > > What is the name and website of the hardware recycling place in Egan with > > the outlet (that I can find no trace of in my workspace or in memory)? > > > MPC Surplus Store > http://www.materialsprocessing.com/sspage.htm As often as this gets asked, someone ought to put it at the bottom of the tclug-list footer on the list messages! -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From tanner at real-time.com Tue May 1 11:10:56 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] emacs editing remote files ssh? Message-ID: <20010501111056.P5327@real-time.com> In the old days I used to uses emacs to edit files remotely. I think is uses ftp(?), I was wondering if there is a similar way of doing this with ssh? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 1 11:09:12 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dvorak In-Reply-To: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F1098D3@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 May 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > If you're interested in learning, I found the best way is to save your > current keymap to a file using: > xmodmap -pke > keyboard.default > > Then grab http://www.signal15.com/keyboard.dvorak and type "xmodmap > keyboard.dvorak". Then print out http://www.signal15.com/dvorak.gif and > tape it to the top of your monitor. Then just start chatting on IRC or ICQ, > or type up some emails. Only look at the map on your monitor if you forget > where a key is. After about two hours or so of solid typing, you should be > able to type without even looking at the map. Hey, that's really useful. Cool beans, man. 20 wpm is a nice number, but you failed to mention your accuracy. ;) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 1 11:18:08 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dvorak In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On Tue, 1 May 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > > > If you're interested in learning, I found the best way is to save your > > current keymap to a file using: > > xmodmap -pke > keyboard.default > > > > Then grab http://www.signal15.com/keyboard.dvorak and type "xmodmap > > keyboard.dvorak". Then print out http://www.signal15.com/dvorak.gif and > > tape it to the top of your monitor. Then just start chatting on IRC or ICQ, > > or type up some emails. Only look at the map on your monitor if you forget > > where a key is. After about two hours or so of solid typing, you should be > > able to type without even looking at the map. > > Hey, that's really useful. Cool beans, man. 20 wpm is a nice number, but > you failed to mention your accuracy. ;) > Oh oh -- that sounds sarcastic. It wasn't. I'm going to play with it later. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From Nick.T.Reinking at supervalu.com Tue May 1 11:24:26 2001 From: Nick.T.Reinking at supervalu.com (Nick.T.Reinking@supervalu.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dvorak Message-ID: <0GCO0048L0AAO8@mail1.supervalu.com> I've been using Dvorak for over a year now, and I'm getting around 120wpm with it. Best of all, the pain in my hands died down a lot when I started using it. It isn't that much faster (I got about a 20% improvement), but the improved comfort of typing in Dvorak is definitely worth it. I've got some great xmodmap that I've tweaked over, because most of the ones that you find around are broken in various subtle ways. I have attached both of them. Note that the dvorak.xmodmap switches around Escape and Caps Lock (I 'vi' a lot!), and the dvorak2qwerty.xmodmap switches that back - so if you don't want that, remove the last four lines. With these you can toggle back and forth between xmodmap sessions easily; running a typical qwerty xmodmap after switching to dvorak will break things, and you'll need to restart X - not with these, though. Enjoy! - Nick Reinking austad@marketwatch.com, on 05/01/2001 10:58:07 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org @ PMDF cc: Subject: [TCLUG] Dvorak So last night, I decided to try and learn dvorak. It's going to take a couple of days to get up to speed, but after only 2 hours on ICQ with it, I'm up to about 20wpm. If you're interested in learning, I found the best way is to save your current keymap to a file using: xmodmap -pke > keyboard.default Then grab http://www.signal15.com/keyboard.dvorak and type "xmodmap keyboard.dvorak". Then print out http://www.signal15.com/dvorak.gif and tape it to the top of your monitor. Then just start chatting on IRC or ICQ, or type up some emails. Only look at the map on your monitor if you forget where a key is. After about two hours or so of solid typing, you should be able to type without even looking at the map. I tried a couple of typing tutor programs, but they sucked compared to this method. To switch back to the qwerty, just type "xmodmap keyboard.default". Unfortunately, I haven't switched over at work yet because 20wpm isn't fast enough. And supposedly, you're supposed to only use Dvorak when you're learning or it'll take much longer, but I guess I'll take my chances. Someone posted this link on Slashdot in a comment yesterday, which was what convinced me to try to learn it: http://www.acm.vt.edu/~jmaxwell/dvorak/keyboard.html (must have java working) Another interesting thing I found was the one-handed dvorak layouts. Apparently, using these keymaps, some people can get 80wpm using only one hand. It would be nice to be able to put one hand on the keyboard and keep the other on the trackball. :) Jay _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: dvorak.xmodmap Type: application/octet-stream Size: 718 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010501/031dff0a/dvorak.obj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: dvorak2qwerty.xmodmap Type: application/octet-stream Size: 721 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010501/031dff0a/dvorak2qwerty.obj From blayer at qwest.net Tue May 1 11:31:48 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:22 2005 Subject: Bad MPC story (was: Re: [TCLUG] Recycling Place in Egan with Outlet) In-Reply-To: References: <6c.a2572d2.282034cd@aol.com> Message-ID: <20010501113148.09ae1863.blayer@qwest.net> Off-Topic... On Tue, 1 May 2001 11:06:30 -0500 (CDT) > > MPC Surplus Store > > http://www.materialsprocessing.com/sspage.htm > > As often as this gets asked, someone ought to put it at the bottom of the > tclug-list footer on the list messages! What's up with the new guy that works there... is it just me, or is he like the Comic Book Store Guy, except constantly listening to Christian Inspirational radio? In the past I've never had a problem exchanging anything defective there (that wasn't specifically AS-IS), but recently I bought a board that was dead. When I brought it back, he laughed at me, ripped the caps off of the board with his fingers, threw the board on the floor and stomped on it, and handed it back. Now whenever I'm there, I walk behind the sales counter until he gets pissed and tells me to get out, and then I try to convince him that I'm not *actually* standing behind the counter, that it's all a matter of his opinion. I genuinely enjoy this game. The twit. When at MPC, try to deal with Bill - the older guy with the blonde-ish hair. -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From jethro at yaron.org Tue May 1 11:41:31 2001 From: jethro at yaron.org (jethro@yaron.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:22 2005 Subject: Bad MPC story (was: Re: [TCLUG] Recycling Place in Egan with Outlet) In-Reply-To: <20010501113148.09ae1863.blayer@qwest.net> References: <6c.a2572d2.282034cd@aol.com> <20010501113148.09ae1863.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <988735291.3aeee73b77eef@dragon> Hi, Quoting Bill Layer : > When I brought it back, he laughed at me, ripped the caps off of > the board with his fingers, threw the board on the floor and stomped on > it, Are you exagerating? -Yaron -- From jethro at yaron.org Tue May 1 11:42:35 2001 From: jethro at yaron.org (jethro@yaron.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dvorak In-Reply-To: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F1098D3@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> References: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F1098D3@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <988735355.3aeee77bad73c@dragon> Hey, Quoting "Austad, Jay" : > If you're interested in learning, I found the best way is to save your > current keymap to a file using: Yeesh. Next thing you'll try to get people to switch to Metric! -Yaron -- From blayer at qwest.net Tue May 1 11:50:16 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:23 2005 Subject: Bad MPC story (was: Re: [TCLUG] Recycling Place in Egan with Outlet) In-Reply-To: <988735291.3aeee73b77eef@dragon> References: <6c.a2572d2.282034cd@aol.com> <20010501113148.09ae1863.blayer@qwest.net> <988735291.3aeee73b77eef@dragon> Message-ID: <20010501115016.182b2a27.blayer@qwest.net> On Tue, 01 May 2001 11:41:31 -0500 (CDT) jethro@yaron.org wrote: > Hi, > > Quoting Bill Layer : > > > When I brought it back, he laughed at me, ripped the caps off of > > the board with his fingers, threw the board on the floor and stomped on > > it, > > Are you exagerating? As much as I enjoy the occasional exageration or silly name to make a story funnier, the series of events I describe is, sadly, totally accurate. Hard to believe, eh? -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From clay at fandre.com Tue May 1 12:05:49 2001 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xfs 1.0 released Message-ID: <3AEEECED.9360EF5F@fandre.com> Anyone running xfs? How's is compare to Reiserfs? Anyone load 1.0 yet? Is it stable? http://linux-xfs.sgi.com/projects/xfs/ From simeonuj at eetc.com Tue May 1 12:12:10 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dvorak References: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F1098D3@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <3AEEEE4C.76104AE8@eetc.com> This looks pretty cool. I think I will try it with my laptop first. See how much of an improvement I get with a tiny keyboard. I dislike small keyboards. I was looking to see if this would work on a macintosh and guess what... It's already there. : ) I don't recall downloading it before and I'm not sure if it comes with the system either but there it is. I'll give it a try later. sim "Austad, Jay" wrote: > So last night, I decided to try and learn dvorak. It's going to take a > couple of days to get up to speed, but after only 2 hours on ICQ with it, > I'm up to about 20wpm. From fertch at mninter.net Tue May 1 12:22:18 2001 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:23 2005 Subject: VXA tape drives (was:Re: [TCLUG] Burners) References: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F1098BE@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> <20010430202712.E23049@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3AEEF0CA.56EB8D1E@mninter.net> Don't know about their website, but LSCI is now a part of Sun Microsystems. From what I know, their filesystem structures and such are going to be incorporated into Sun products in the near future. Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > > > Sam-FS from LSCI (http://www.lsci.com). They're based here in the twin > > cities, and the guys that work for them are extremely nice people and easy > > to work with. > too bad their web page isn't... it's all .asps and doesn't render > right under Netscape. Doesn't render at all under Galeon (Mozilla). > documents (other than the marketdroid teasers) are in .pdfs. > > guess I didn't need to see their stuff anyway. :) > > Carl Soderstrom From clay at fandre.com Tue May 1 12:22:54 2001 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Recycling Place in Egan with Outlet References: Message-ID: <3AEEF0EE.9BB20226@fandre.com> Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > On Tue, 1 May 2001 MAJensen222@aol.com wrote: > > > > What is the name and website of the hardware recycling place in Egan with > > > the outlet (that I can find no trace of in my workspace or in memory)? > > > > > MPC Surplus Store > > http://www.materialsprocessing.com/sspage.htm > > As often as this gets asked, someone ought to put it at the bottom of the > tclug-list footer on the list messages! Or just put it on the webpage. http://www.mn-linux.org/links/ Let me know if there are any other links I should add. From veldy at veldy.net Tue May 1 12:22:34 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xfs 1.0 released References: <3AEEECED.9360EF5F@fandre.com> Message-ID: <030201c0d263$5001bba0$3028680a@tgt.com> They are certainly implying that it is stable. "XFS, widely recognized as the industry-leading high-performance filesystem, provides rapid recovery from system crashes and the ability to support extremely large disk farms. XFS is the first journaled filesystem for Linux available today that has a proven track record in production environments since late 1994. It is a mature technology that has been proven on thousands of IRIX systems as the default filesystem for all SGI customers." I will try it out -- tonight maybe and let you know what I think. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clay Fandre" To: "TCLUG" Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 12:05 PM Subject: [TCLUG] xfs 1.0 released > Anyone running xfs? How's is compare to Reiserfs? > > Anyone load 1.0 yet? Is it stable? > > http://linux-xfs.sgi.com/projects/xfs/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From fertch at mninter.net Tue May 1 12:29:50 2001 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Business Software Alliance... References: <3AEE1FB9.5D9EB463@mttcc.com> <20010430215032.P7366@ringworld.org> <20010430223418.C31735@minime.sistina.com> <20010430223638.C1639@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3AEEF28E.D61F27A3@mninter.net> Bob Tanner wrote: > > Quoting Ben Lutgens (blutgens@sistina.com): > > Nothing if you take them down into the programmers cave and show them a whole > > slew of linux workstations. > > > > > > > >Oh. Cool. The BSA Holy Patrol *is* coming to town. > > Maybe the LUG should approach all the companies that get hit by the BSA and > explain how they could save a whole lot of money with Linux and open software. One problem with this thought: Cost in terms of money spent to retrain people, and also in productivity lost for them to relearn new software and related things. Also, manpower cost in reloading thousands of desktops, laptops, and servers. A slow, painful conversion is sometimes the best method when dealing with corporations and bean counters. If it's a small business with small amounts of servers and such, then sure. Easier said than done. Shawn From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 1 12:25:30 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dvorak In-Reply-To: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F1098D3@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> References: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F1098D3@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20010501122530.2edf5cbc.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> "Austad, Jay" wrote: > > If you're interested in learning, I found the best way is to save your > current keymap to a file using: > xmodmap -pke > keyboard.default > > Then grab http://www.signal15.com/keyboard.dvorak and type "xmodmap > keyboard.dvorak". Then print out http://www.signal15.com/dvorak.gif and > tape it to the top of your monitor. Then just start chatting on IRC or > ICQ, or type up some emails. Only look at the map on your monitor if > you forget where a key is. After about two hours or so of solid typing, > you should be able to type without even looking at the map. I just thought I should note that most Linux distros I've played with recently have a Dvorak layout already on the system. In X, run `setxkbmap dvorak' to go to Dvorak and `setxkbmap us' to go back to normal (Edit /etc/X11/XF86Config for a more permanent change, obviously..) In console, (on RedHat, not sure about other distros) run kbdconfig and just select Dvorak. Windows 9x/Me also usually have Dvorak layouts installed. Just go to the keyboard control panel. I think I tried looking in W2K once, and couldn't find it, but I might have been looking in the wrong places. I have no idea about Mac, but sim said that it's already there too.. Of course, the most annoying thing is when you accidentally apply a Dvorak layout twice and get the whole keyboard _really_ screwed up ;-) -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ If a jogger runs at the / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ speed of sound, can he \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) still hear his Walkman? [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From fertch at mninter.net Tue May 1 12:35:25 2001 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Business Software Alliance... References: <3AEE1FB9.5D9EB463@mttcc.com> <20010501083143.A26568@candle.rawstew> <3AEEC7C2.EEEE5BE8@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <3AEEF3DD.4C8C182A@mninter.net> Kent Schumacher wrote: > I also notice that Microsoft is offering a bounty for the names of people > who buy 'Naked' PC's. I'm hoping General Nano turns me in and gets > the bounty. Why? So MS can try and strongarm people with their billions of pounds of paper and plastic they bombard you with in snail mail? From veldy at veldy.net Tue May 1 12:45:04 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xfs 1.0 released References: <3AEEECED.9360EF5F@fandre.com> <030201c0d263$5001bba0$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: <030801c0d266$7489f7f0$3028680a@tgt.com> I am unable to get XFS into my configuration options using the 2.4.4 kernel. The patch runs clean. Oh well -- not quite ready for prime time deployment I guess. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas T. Veldhouse" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] xfs 1.0 released > They are certainly implying that it is stable. > > "XFS, widely recognized as the industry-leading high-performance filesystem, > provides rapid recovery from system crashes and the ability to support > extremely large disk farms. XFS is the first journaled filesystem for Linux > available today that has a proven track record in production environments > since late 1994. It is a mature technology that has been proven on thousands > of IRIX systems as the default filesystem for all SGI customers." > > I will try it out -- tonight maybe and let you know what I think. > > Tom > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Clay Fandre" > To: "TCLUG" > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 12:05 PM > Subject: [TCLUG] xfs 1.0 released > > > > Anyone running xfs? How's is compare to Reiserfs? > > > > Anyone load 1.0 yet? Is it stable? > > > > http://linux-xfs.sgi.com/projects/xfs/ > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From john at mn.mediaone.net Tue May 1 11:51:06 2001 From: john at mn.mediaone.net (johndmiller) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] kmod: failed to exec... Message-ID: I have 2.4.3 in a floppy. I did the make modules and make modules_install. I am still getting the kmod:failed to exec /sbin/modprobe -s -k binfmt-464c, errno=8 When I boot from my HD the 2.2.16 everything is fine. Any one have any ideas? John From jonathankl_2001 at yahoo.com Tue May 1 13:18:21 2001 From: jonathankl_2001 at yahoo.com (Jonathan Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Groups Message-ID: <20010501181821.89350.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> In linux can you have groups with spaces in them? I ask b/c we run a samba server and some of the other admins hate text mode user administration and want to use nt tools, but for that to happen the group "domain users" must exsist on the SAMBA server.... TIA Jonathan A. Kline __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Tue May 1 13:26:51 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Groups Message-ID: Can't "domain users" be maped to "users"? >>> jonathankl_2001@yahoo.com 05/01/01 01:18PM >>> In linux can you have groups with spaces in them? I ask b/c we run a samba server and some of the other admins hate text mode user administration and want to use nt tools, but for that to happen the group "domain users" must exsist on the SAMBA server.... TIA Jonathan A. Kline __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From veldy at veldy.net Tue May 1 13:34:27 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] kmod: failed to exec... References: Message-ID: <031101c0d26d$5ab84d70$3028680a@tgt.com> Do you have /sbin/modprobe (versus /usr/sbin/modprobe)? Have you upgraded to the modutils-2.4.x package? Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "johndmiller" To: "TC Linux User Group" Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 11:51 AM Subject: [TCLUG] kmod: failed to exec... > I have 2.4.3 in a floppy. I did the make modules and make > modules_install. I am still getting the kmod:failed to exec > /sbin/modprobe -s -k binfmt-464c, errno=8 > > When I boot from my HD the 2.2.16 everything is fine. > > Any one have any ideas? > > John > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From tanner at real-time.com Tue May 1 13:53:47 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] phil@archwing.com: Party Invitation Message-ID: <20010501135347.F6269@real-time.com> Forwarding by request... ----- Forwarded message from Phil Platt ----- > Hello! > > ArchWing Innovations is having a party on May 10 and we'd like you to come. > > It's our 4th birthday party! > > Join us for hors d'oeuvres, refreshing beverages and the inevitable > networking with industry colleagues. > > Here are the details: > > Olive Fest 2001 > > Who, What, When, Where, Why? > > Who Is Invited? > A. You > B. ArchWing Clients > C. ArchWing Partners > D. ArchWing Colleagues > E. All of the above > > What Is It? > A. A celebration > B. A party > C. An industry event > D. All of the above > > When Is It? > A. Thursday > B. May 10, 2001 > C. 4:00 ? 7:30 pm > D. All of the above > > Where Is It? > A. ArchWing Corporate HQ > B. 1313 5th Street SE > C. Suite 227 > D. Dinkytown > E. Minneapolis > F. All of the above > > Why Is It? > A. To celebrate ArchWing?s 4th anniversary > B. To get together with clients, partners, colleagues, and friends > C. To eat olives (and other delectables, hors d'oeuvres and the like) > D. To drink refreshing beverages > E. All of the above > > All of all of the above. > > To RSVP, send an email to Olive@ArchWing.com > Please include your name and company affiliation. > > Read the Olive Fest FAQ > http://www.archwing.com/awi_news_olive_2.html > > Hope to see you! > ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From administrator at ltiflex.com Tue May 1 13:55:57 2001 From: administrator at ltiflex.com (Andy Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Groups References: Message-ID: <3AEF06BD.CA9400A3@ltiflex.com> Read you samba documentation. :) Create username.map and group.map files in /etc/samba. From tanner at real-time.com Tue May 1 14:03:56 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Market speed improvement in Mozillia 2001050108 Message-ID: <20010501140356.H6269@real-time.com> Normally, I would not do this, but there is a marked speed improvement in Mozilla 2001050108. Along with some niffy new theme stuff. Just thought I'd pass it along. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From simeonuj at eetc.com Tue May 1 14:59:20 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Groups References: <3AEF06BD.CA9400A3@ltiflex.com> Message-ID: <3AEF1561.4F9767C0@eetc.com> I don't know about the config files but I do know that we have users with spaces in there names. It is kind of a pain because logcheck ( maybe it was logrotate.... ) has some problems with spaces in names. We simply stopped checking/rotating the logs. There wasn't much activity anyway. I don't think there is a problem with spaces in samba. I'm not the guy who set it up though. : ) sim Andy Zbikowski wrote: > Read you samba documentation. :) > > Create username.map and group.map files in /etc/samba. > > >From what I have, username.map looks like: > administrator=root > > and group.map looks like: > domain users:domuser > > You may need to do it like > domain\ users:domuser > I'm not exactly sure anymore, read the docs. > > To use the maps, under [Global] in smb.conf: > username map = /etc/samba/username.map > group map = /etc/samba/group.map > > If you're samba server is part of the NT domain you shouldn't have to worry > about the maps too much. I still have to get around to working with 2.2 > however, so things may be different. From john at mn.mediaone.net Tue May 1 14:03:30 2001 From: john at mn.mediaone.net (johndmiller) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] kmod: failed to exec... In-Reply-To: <031101c0d26d$5ab84d70$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: I have version 2.4.2-5 of the modutils and it is located in /sbin/ and is a link to insmod in the same directory According to the Change file, this is what I need Any other ideas. What is this trying to do. It looks like it is trying to install some modules. What is the -binfmt-464c on the end do. I could not find it in the man pages. Is there a way of stoping or pausing the boot process to poke around to see what was up? TIA John On Tue, 1 May 2001, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > Do you have /sbin/modprobe (versus /usr/sbin/modprobe)? Have you upgraded > to the modutils-2.4.x package? > > Tom Veldhouse > veldy@veldy.net > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "johndmiller" > To: "TC Linux User Group" > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 11:51 AM > Subject: [TCLUG] kmod: failed to exec... > > > > I have 2.4.3 in a floppy. I did the make modules and make > > modules_install. I am still getting the kmod:failed to exec > > /sbin/modprobe -s -k binfmt-464c, errno=8 > > > > When I boot from my HD the 2.2.16 everything is fine. > > > > Any one have any ideas? > > > > John > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 1 15:06:05 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] kmod: failed to exec... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010501150605.6359d59e.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> johndmiller wrote: > > I have 2.4.3 in a floppy. I did the make modules and make > modules_install. I am still getting the kmod:failed to exec > /sbin/modprobe -s -k binfmt-464c, errno=8 You forgot to include support for ELF binaries in your kernel, didn't you? -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Diagonally parked in a / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ parallel universe. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 1 16:33:59 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! In-Reply-To: <20010501150605.6359d59e.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: What do you do when the company you love to hate does something *very* right? Ordered Qwest DSL yesterday, probably about 1:00pm. 9:15 this morning they had the guy out checking the pole -- continuity, tagged with circuit no. and should be done. (I won't mention that it's good that I talked to him because he was *this* close to running it to my neighbor's house.) They allow 2 weeks for doing this, so that puts them 13 days ahead of schedule. Should I fear trouble elsewhere??! -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From tanner at real-time.com Tue May 1 16:42:18 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! In-Reply-To: ; from mend0070@tc.umn.edu on Tue, May 01, 2001 at 04:33:59PM -0500 References: <20010501150605.6359d59e.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010501164218.H6269@real-time.com> Quoting Phil Mendelsohn (mend0070@tc.umn.edu): > What do you do when the company you love to hate does something *very* > right? > > Ordered Qwest DSL yesterday, probably about 1:00pm. 9:15 this morning > they had the guy out checking the pole -- continuity, tagged with circuit > no. and should be done. (I won't mention that it's good that I talked to > him because he was *this* close to running it to my neighbor's house.) > > They allow 2 weeks for doing this, so that puts them 13 days ahead of > schedule. Should I fear trouble elsewhere??! Murphy's LAW! -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From blutgens at sistina.com Tue May 1 16:49:21 2001 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! In-Reply-To: ; from mend0070@tc.umn.edu on Tue, May 01, 2001 at 04:33:59PM -0500 References: <20010501150605.6359d59e.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010501164921.A18882@minime.sistina.com> On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 04:33:59PM -0500, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: >What do you do when the company you love to hate does something *very* >right? > >Ordered Qwest DSL yesterday, probably about 1:00pm. 9:15 this morning >they had the guy out checking the pole -- continuity, tagged with circuit >no. and should be done. (I won't mention that it's good that I talked to >him because he was *this* close to running it to my neighbor's house.) That was probably your neighbors line, he'll be screwed now. > >They allow 2 weeks for doing this, so that puts them 13 days ahead of >schedule. Should I fear trouble elsewhere??! > > > -- >"To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous > >_______________________________________________ >tclug-list mailing list >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Ben Lutgens cell: XXX.XXX.XXXX Sistina Software Inc. work: XXX.XXX.XXXX Mailing list admin / Punching Bag (and sorta sysadmin guy) http://www.sistina.com/ <--- great software http://www.gentoo.org/ <--- great distro Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream <--- perfect error message -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010501/d3fbe89f/attachment.pgp From blayer at qwest.net Tue May 1 16:56:36 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! In-Reply-To: References: <20010501150605.6359d59e.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010501165636.5116a22c.blayer@qwest.net> On Tue, 1 May 2001 16:33:59 -0500 (CDT) "Phil Mendelsohn" wrote: > What do you do when the company you love to hate does something *very* > right? FWIW, I've been very happy with my Qwest / USWest DSL experience.. Knocking wood, -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 1 17:00:53 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! In-Reply-To: <20010501164921.A18882@minime.sistina.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 May 2001, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 04:33:59PM -0500, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > >Ordered Qwest DSL yesterday, probably about 1:00pm. 9:15 this morning > >they had the guy out checking the pole -- continuity, tagged with circuit > >no. and should be done. (I won't mention that it's good that I talked to > >him because he was *this* close to running it to my neighbor's house.) > > That was probably your neighbors line, he'll be screwed now. Nope. I saw the work order, and she doesn't have a computer anyway. But I'm still waiting for t'other shoe to drop. Could it be Real-Time needing a week to make up a price? Nahhh... It'll probably be that the modem gets sent to St. Peter instead of St. Paul. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 1 17:03:48 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! In-Reply-To: <20010501165636.5116a22c.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 May 2001, Bill Layer wrote: > On Tue, 1 May 2001 16:33:59 -0500 (CDT) > "Phil Mendelsohn" wrote: > > > What do you do when the company you love to hate does something *very* > > right? > > > FWIW, I've been very happy with my Qwest / USWest DSL experience.. I'll be curious to see if that stays true when your qwest.net is subsumed by MSN in the coming days, but I guess we already sputtered about that thread. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From jethro at yaron.org Tue May 1 17:05:33 2001 From: jethro at yaron.org (jethro@yaron.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest and >640Kb DSL In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <988754733.3aef332d7346c@dragon> Hi, Is anyone using Qwest for REALLY fast DSL? I was thinking of bumping mine higher than 640, but the people I called at Qwest say there's no such thing. I did get one of them to say I could get 640 both ways, but thats not much help. I'm like 5000 feet from the CO so I figure it should be at least POSSIBLE. Anyone know? -Yaron PS YES 60K/sec is too slow for me, ok? (: -- From drake at lemongecko.org Tue May 1 16:31:38 2001 From: drake at lemongecko.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dvorak In-Reply-To: <20010501122530.2edf5cbc.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 May 2001, Mike Hicks wrote: > Of course, the most annoying thing is when you accidentally apply a Dvorak > layout twice and get the whole keyboard _really_ screwed up ;-) If you accidentally apply it twice, just apply it 26! - 2 more times and that will fix the problem. :) Dan -- /*-------------------------------- Dan Drake http://lemongecko.org/drake/ --------pgp encouraged----------*/ From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 1 17:11:41 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest and >640Kb DSL In-Reply-To: <988754733.3aef332d7346c@dragon> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 May 2001 jethro@yaron.org wrote: > Is anyone using Qwest for REALLY fast DSL? I was thinking of bumping mine > higher than 640, but the people I called at Qwest say there's no such thing. I > did get one of them to say I could get 640 both ways, but thats not much help. > I'm like 5000 feet from the CO so I figure it should be at least POSSIBLE. > Anyone know? What I've seen says that to get anything faster you have to switch to business service, not residential. Prices are quite a bit steeper, and they may ask that you have a business bank account to get it. It's stupid I know, but a basic business voice line costs about 3-4 times what a basic residential voice line costs. They are very clear in denoting that some things are "business DSL", probably just so they can justify this price structure. Look at the web site -- it exists. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 1 17:14:32 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dvorak In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 May 2001, Dan Drake wrote: > On Tue, 1 May 2001, Mike Hicks wrote: > > Of course, the most annoying thing is when you accidentally apply a Dvorak > > layout twice and get the whole keyboard _really_ screwed up ;-) > > If you accidentally apply it twice, just apply it 26! - 2 more times > and that will fix the problem. :) I haven't looked at it; is it a permutation without any cycles? Are there no keys that remain fixed? This could be a slightly more interesting combinatorial problem than it appears... -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From john at mn.mediaone.net Tue May 1 16:19:37 2001 From: john at mn.mediaone.net (johndmiller) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] kmod: failed to exec... In-Reply-To: <20010501150605.6359d59e.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: Just a note to say thanks, I compiled ELF binaries into the kernel rather than as a module. John Miller On Tue, 1 May 2001, Mike Hicks wrote: > johndmiller wrote: > > > > I have 2.4.3 in a floppy. I did the make modules and make > > modules_install. I am still getting the kmod:failed to exec > > /sbin/modprobe -s -k binfmt-464c, errno=8 > > You forgot to include support for ELF binaries in your kernel, didn't you? > > From drake at lemongecko.org Tue May 1 16:44:19 2001 From: drake at lemongecko.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > They allow 2 weeks for doing this, so that puts them 13 days ahead of > schedule. Should I fear trouble elsewhere??! Yes. I recently ordered DSL from Qwest. They sent the modem, it arrived on time, we're good to go, right? Wrong. It turns out they sent me a CAP modem, and I needed a DMT modem. I spent *hours* on tech support before one of the techs told me to turn over my modem and see if it said "CAP" or "DMT". Some of the techs seemed bright; others seemed to be eighth grade dropouts. I *really* didn't like the widely varying knowledge base that the tech support people had. Also, they totally shit their pants if you mention Linux -- they can't send out a technician to do work on your telephone line unless you use Windows. (why does my OS affect their ability to fix my phone line?) However, I got my new DMT modem yesterday, and everything was plug-and-play. I can pull almost 70KB/s, so all's well that ends well, I suppose. Dan -- /*-------------------------------- Dan Drake http://lemongecko.org/drake/ --------pgp encouraged----------*/ From drake at lemongecko.org Tue May 1 16:50:27 2001 From: drake at lemongecko.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dvorak In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > If you accidentally apply it twice, just apply it 26! - 2 more times > > and that will fix the problem. :) > > I haven't looked at it; is it a permutation without any cycles? Are there > no keys that remain fixed? This could be a slightly more interesting > combinatorial problem than it appears... No, it's pretty trivial. The order of the group is 26!, and when you raise an element to the order of the group, you get the identity. It's quite possible that there's a smaller number that will get you back where you started, but 26! will do it. As a grad student in math, I really should know how to figure out the order of the permutation, since that's quite basic abstract algebra / combinatorics... Of course, if you start with QWERTY and then apply the permutation that gives you Dvorak 26! times, you'll get back to QWERTY. So perhaps, in the Dvorak-advocacy spirit of the thread, we should apply that permutation one more time to get back to Dvorak. Dan -- /*-------------------------------- Dan Drake http://lemongecko.org/drake/ --------pgp encouraged----------*/ From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 1 17:45:59 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dvorak In-Reply-To: References: <20010501122530.2edf5cbc.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010501174559.7b2794b3.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Dan Drake wrote: > > On Tue, 1 May 2001, Mike Hicks wrote: > > Of course, the most annoying thing is when you accidentally apply a > Dvorak > > layout twice and get the whole keyboard _really_ screwed up ;-) > > If you accidentally apply it twice, just apply it 26! - 2 more times > and that will fix the problem. :) Actually, Dvorak moves more than just letters around. The `A' and `M' keys stay in one spot, but some symbols move. My keyboard has about 33 keys change. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Syntactic sugar causes / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ cancer of the semicolon. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From colin at tyr.med.umn.edu Tue May 1 17:53:14 2001 From: colin at tyr.med.umn.edu (Colin Kilbane) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Those quest people are acting strange. They are actually nice and prompt. It must be aliens, Aliens I tell you!!! Colin Kilbane On Tue, 1 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On Tue, 1 May 2001, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > > On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 04:33:59PM -0500, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > >Ordered Qwest DSL yesterday, probably about 1:00pm. 9:15 this morning > > >they had the guy out checking the pole -- continuity, tagged with circuit > > >no. and should be done. (I won't mention that it's good that I talked to > > >him because he was *this* close to running it to my neighbor's house.) > > > > That was probably your neighbors line, he'll be screwed now. > > Nope. I saw the work order, and she doesn't have a computer anyway. But > I'm still waiting for t'other shoe to drop. Could it be Real-Time > needing a week to make up a price? Nahhh... It'll probably be that the > modem gets sent to St. Peter instead of St. Paul. > > -- > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From blayer at qwest.net Tue May 1 17:53:32 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010501175332.5473a708.blayer@qwest.net> On Tue, 1 May 2001 16:44:19 -0500 (CDT) "Dan Drake" wrote: > Some of the techs seemed bright; others seemed to be eighth grade > dropouts. If you have to call support, select the Macintosh option and ans to talk to Trevor, he is gold. -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From tanner at real-time.com Tue May 1 18:05:26 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] bash commands for a specific host? Message-ID: <20010501180526.A6925@real-time.com> Is there a way to get resource scripts sources on a per host bases? Like a machine called blah would source .bashrc.blah or something like that? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From sgrobe at mn.rr.com Tue May 1 18:40:07 2001 From: sgrobe at mn.rr.com (Steve) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Business Software Alliance... References: <3AEE1FB9.5D9EB463@mttcc.com> Message-ID: <3AEF4957.50306@mn.rr.com> Yea, we got it at work too. My boss says he gets them once in a while, never amounts to anything tho. Matt Thoren wrote: > Has anyone else received a letter from the "Business Software Alliance" > stating that "The BSA is calling a Truce. You have until May 31 to get > legal." This is in regards to software licensing. The supposedly > represent Adobe, Apple, Autodesk, Bently Systems, CNC > Software/Mastercam, Macromedia, Microsoft, Symantec and UGS. > > I am assuming that this is a scam of some kind. I apologize ahead of > time if it is an I am only now aware of it. If it is not, what possibly > could they do? > > Thanks, > Matt. > > -- > Matt Thoren > MTT Computer Consulting Inc. > 2633 Fremont Ave. North > Minneapolis, MN 55411 > mthoren@mttcc.com > http://www.mttcc.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Yadda, yadda, yadda.. From jethro at freakzilla.com Tue May 1 18:40:50 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] bash commands for a specific host? In-Reply-To: <20010501180526.A6925@real-time.com> Message-ID: Hi, On Tue, 1 May 2001, Bob Tanner wrote: > Is there a way to get resource scripts sources on a per host bases? > > Like a machine called blah would source .bashrc.blah or something like that? I don't know how to do this in bash, but it works with tcsh so it should work fine with bash too... do HOSTNAME=`hostname` and then source /etc/bashrc.$HOSTNAME... will that work? -Yaron -- From thekremer at mn.mediaone.net Tue May 1 19:04:01 2001 From: thekremer at mn.mediaone.net (Justin Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Business Software Alliance... In-Reply-To: <3AEE1FB9.5D9EB463@mttcc.com> Message-ID: <200105020005.f4205mx23191@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Um...the BSA is full of, well, BS I have a nice scan of an ad they put in a San Fransisco computer magazine (that's what i was told) which has says "MAKE NO MISTAKE! Copying Software is Illegal" (along with a nice BSA logo and a phone number and url) um...yeah... I think that some people will never learn. -Kremer On 30 Apr 2001 21:30:17 -0500, Matt Thoren wrote: > Has anyone else received a letter from the "Business Software Alliance" > stating that "The BSA is calling a Truce. You have until May 31 to get > legal." This is in regards to software licensing. The supposedly > represent Adobe, Apple, Autodesk, Bently Systems, CNC > Software/Mastercam, Macromedia, Microsoft, Symantec and UGS. > > I am assuming that this is a scam of some kind. I apologize ahead of > time if it is an I am only now aware of it. If it is not, what possibly > could they do? > > Thanks, > Matt. > > -- > Matt Thoren > MTT Computer Consulting Inc. > 2633 Fremont Ave. North > Minneapolis, MN 55411 > mthoren@mttcc.com > http://www.mttcc.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at real-time.com Tue May 1 19:31:21 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] bash commands for a specific host? In-Reply-To: ; from jethro@freakzilla.com on Tue, May 01, 2001 at 06:40:50PM -0500 References: <20010501180526.A6925@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010501193121.A12398@real-time.com> Quoting Yaron (jethro@freakzilla.com): > I don't know how to do this in bash, but it works with tcsh so it should > work fine with bash too... do HOSTNAME=`hostname` and then source > /etc/bashrc.$HOSTNAME... will that work? Will bash do that automagically? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From veldy at veldy.net Tue May 1 20:43:59 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest and >640Kb DSL References: <988754733.3aef332d7346c@dragon> Message-ID: <005c01c0d2a9$5b926280$0101a8c0@cascade> It is possible -- but you have to get a business account -- and then you are going to pay ... Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 5:05 PM Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest and >640Kb DSL > Hi, > > Is anyone using Qwest for REALLY fast DSL? I was thinking of bumping mine > higher than 640, but the people I called at Qwest say there's no such thing. I > did get one of them to say I could get 640 both ways, but thats not much help. > I'm like 5000 feet from the CO so I figure it should be at least POSSIBLE. > Anyone know? > > -Yaron > > PS YES 60K/sec is too slow for me, ok? (: > > -- > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From veldy at veldy.net Tue May 1 20:46:07 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! References: Message-ID: <006701c0d2a9$a7c2c780$0101a8c0@cascade> It is because they are moving in for the kill and then they will have a Monopoly. Covad is on its way out. Once that happens, it will be just like the old QWest, except DSL will almost certainly cost more. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin Kilbane" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 5:53 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! > Those quest people are acting strange. They are actually nice and prompt. > It must be aliens, Aliens I tell you!!! > > Colin Kilbane > > On Tue, 1 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > > On Tue, 1 May 2001, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > > > > On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 04:33:59PM -0500, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > > >Ordered Qwest DSL yesterday, probably about 1:00pm. 9:15 this morning > > > >they had the guy out checking the pole -- continuity, tagged with circuit > > > >no. and should be done. (I won't mention that it's good that I talked to > > > >him because he was *this* close to running it to my neighbor's house.) > > > > > > That was probably your neighbors line, he'll be screwed now. > > > > Nope. I saw the work order, and she doesn't have a computer anyway. But > > I'm still waiting for t'other shoe to drop. Could it be Real-Time > > needing a week to make up a price? Nahhh... It'll probably be that the > > modem gets sent to St. Peter instead of St. Paul. > > > > -- > > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From destef at destef.com Tue May 1 21:25:57 2001 From: destef at destef.com (Jason DeStefano) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! In-Reply-To: References: <20010501150605.6359d59e.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <200105020225.f422PjT25577@ernie.destef.com> guarantee that even with the guy out there on day 1 they will not "complete" the order until day 14. The order processing dept doesnt care how quick the technician did his part, they only care that they are able to sit on an order for 14 days. btw, thats 14 business days. 3 weeks, not 2. Qwest sucks and they will forever sucketh the big one. period. --former qwest customer who got screwed At 04:33 PM 5/1/01 -0500, you wrote: >What do you do when the company you love to hate does something *very* >right? > >Ordered Qwest DSL yesterday, probably about 1:00pm. 9:15 this morning >they had the guy out checking the pole -- continuity, tagged with circuit >no. and should be done. (I won't mention that it's good that I talked to >him because he was *this* close to running it to my neighbor's house.) > >They allow 2 weeks for doing this, so that puts them 13 days ahead of >schedule. Should I fear trouble elsewhere??! > > > -- >"To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous > >_______________________________________________ >tclug-list mailing list >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From alborchers at steinerpoint.com Tue May 1 22:34:35 2001 From: alborchers at steinerpoint.com (Al Borchers) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dvorak References: <200105012255.f41MtBk18029@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <3AEF804B.7173498A@steinerpoint.com> Dan Drake wrote: > On Tue, 1 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > > If you accidentally apply it twice, just apply it 26! - 2 more times > > > and that will fix the problem. :) > > > > I haven't looked at it; is it a permutation without any cycles? Are there > > no keys that remain fixed? This could be a slightly more interesting > > combinatorial problem than it appears... > > No, it's pretty trivial. The order of the group is 26!, and when you > raise an element to the order of the group, you get the identity. It's > quite possible that there's a smaller number that will get you back where > you started, but 26! will do it. There is certainly a much smaller number than 26!. The order of an element in the symmetric group is the LCM of its cycle lengths. For QWERTY->DVORAK I get the cycle decomposition of (Q ' - [ / Z ; S O R P L N B X) (W ,) (E . V K T Y F U G I C J H D) (A) (M) Cycle lengths of 15, 2, 14, 1, 1. So the order of that permutation is 210. Whew! You only have to apply the keymap 210 times to get back where you started, not 33! = 8683317618811886495518194401280000000 times. And you thought math would never help you out in real life. -- Al From drake at lemongecko.org Wed May 2 06:35:58 2001 From: drake at lemongecko.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dvorak In-Reply-To: <3AEF804B.7173498A@steinerpoint.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 May 2001, Al Borchers wrote: > There is certainly a much smaller number than 26!. The order of an element > in the symmetric group is the LCM of its cycle lengths. For QWERTY->DVORAK > I get the cycle decomposition of > > (Q ' - [ / Z ; S O R P L N B X) (W ,) (E . V K T Y F U G I C J H D) (A) (M) > > Cycle lengths of 15, 2, 14, 1, 1. So the order of that permutation is 210. Doh! Of course. Should've known that you look at the cycle decomposition. Please, nobody tell my algebra professor about this... :) Dan -- /*-------------------------------- Dan Drake http://lemongecko.org/drake/ --------pgp encouraged----------*/ From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed May 2 07:44:30 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dvorak In-Reply-To: <3AEF804B.7173498A@steinerpoint.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 May 2001, Al Borchers wrote: > Dan Drake wrote: > > On Tue, 1 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > > > If you accidentally apply it twice, just apply it 26! - 2 more times > > > > and that will fix the problem. :) > > > > > > I haven't looked at it; is it a permutation without any cycles? Are there > > > no keys that remain fixed? This could be a slightly more interesting > > > combinatorial problem than it appears... > > > > No, it's pretty trivial. The order of the group is 26!, and when you > > raise an element to the order of the group, you get the identity. It's > > quite possible that there's a smaller number that will get you back where > > you started, but 26! will do it. > > There is certainly a much smaller number than 26!. The order of an element > in the symmetric group is the LCM of its cycle lengths. For QWERTY->DVORAK > I get the cycle decomposition of > > (Q ' - [ / Z ; S O R P L N B X) (W ,) (E . V K T Y F U G I C J H D) (A) (M) That's what I was curious about. Did you sit down and map it? I guess there was nothing on T.V. > And you thought math would never help you out in real life. Oh no, math helps in real life quite often in a varitey of ways. What's unfortunate is that real life doesn't help more often in math! (But then I've a combinatorics test this afternoon...) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From dhanson2 at uswest.net Wed May 2 08:06:42 2001 From: dhanson2 at uswest.net (Doug Hanson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest and >640Kb DSL References: <988754733.3aef332d7346c@dragon> Message-ID: <000d01c0d308$bbb6c390$eaaf7a81@doug> Nope, your out of luck :( I would suggest Covad/AT&T!!! 1.5MB pipe for $79.99 a month! I have mine ordered :)~ Qwest will only guarantee 256k anyway!!! Funny how Covad can do it and Qworst can't? Doug ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 5:05 PM Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest and >640Kb DSL > Hi, > > Is anyone using Qwest for REALLY fast DSL? I was thinking of bumping mine > higher than 640, but the people I called at Qwest say there's no such thing. I > did get one of them to say I could get 640 both ways, but thats not much help. > I'm like 5000 feet from the CO so I figure it should be at least POSSIBLE. > Anyone know? > > -Yaron > > PS YES 60K/sec is too slow for me, ok? (: > > -- > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jethro at freakzilla.com Wed May 2 08:26:38 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest and >640Kb DSL In-Reply-To: <000d01c0d308$bbb6c390$eaaf7a81@doug> Message-ID: Hi, On Wed, 2 May 2001, Doug Hanson wrote: > Nope, your out of luck :( I would suggest Covad/AT&T!!! But then I can't have Real-Time as my ISP! -Yaron -- From kent at structural-wood.com Wed May 2 08:28:01 2001 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] bash commands for a specific host? References: <20010501180526.A6925@real-time.com> <20010501193121.A12398@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3AF00B61.AFFC785F@structural-wood.com> Bob Tanner wrote: > > Quoting Yaron (jethro@freakzilla.com): > > I don't know how to do this in bash, but it works with tcsh so it should > > work fine with bash too... do HOSTNAME=`hostname` and then source > > /etc/bashrc.$HOSTNAME... will that work? > > Will bash do that automagically? > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > I do this by having a standard .bashrc source the custom .bashrc. In other words I have the same .bashrc on all the machines, and in that .bashrc I have CUSTOMRC=.bashrc.`hostname` [ -x "$CUSTOMRC" ] && { . "$CUSTOMRC" } I think you could also simply modify /etc/profile to do this also. I'm not sure if /etc/profile is 'standard', although it has worked in every circumstance I have tried it. From scottdagastino at yahoo.com Wed May 2 09:13:26 2001 From: scottdagastino at yahoo.com (Scott Dagastino) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] vpn from linux Message-ID: <20010502141326.27189.qmail@web9605.mail.yahoo.com> Does anyone know how to hookup vpn (if even available) on linux? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From administrator at ltiflex.com Wed May 2 09:20:07 2001 From: administrator at ltiflex.com (Andy Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] bash commands for a specific host? References: <20010501180526.A6925@real-time.com> <20010501193121.A12398@real-time.com> <3AF00B61.AFFC785F@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <3AF01797.2F39F87B@ltiflex.com> Sure, you should see my config, based heavily on ^chewies... # ~/.bashrc: executed by bash(1) for all shells. if [ -f ${HOME}/.bash_profile ] ; then . ${HOME}/.bash_profile fi umask 002 # ~/.bash_profile: executed by bash(1) for login shells. for i in ${HOME}/.profile.d/*.{sh,bash} ; do if [ -x ${i} ] ; then . ${i} fi done umask 002 Then in ~/.profile.d/ there are 7 bash shell scripts, each with a different purpose. Basically creating a broken up .bashrc. 00path.bash - Standard and non-standard path settings 05prompt.bash - Sets up bash prompt 06env-var.bash - Sets enviorment variables 07cmdaliases.bash - Command Aliases 10lsoptions.bash - ls options (colors, etc) 15irc.bash - IRC settings (for bitchx) 16proxy.bash - http/https/ftp proxy settings (for console tools like wget, lynx, etc. apt-get will follow these as well, but you're better off setting it in /etc/apt.conf) So if you wanted to source a file based on hostname, something like this: if [ -f ${HOME}/.bashrc.${HOSTNAME} ] ; then . ${HOME}/.bashrc${HOSTNAME} fi in your .bash_profile should do the trick... I don't think you need to set the $HOSTNAME variable in bash. I'm fairly sure that every bash enviorment has it set up automatically. echo $HOSTNAME to check. If not, add HOSTNAME=`hostname` above the if statement. -- Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH) 763-428-9119 (EX) 132 21801 Industrial Blvd | (FX) 763-428-9126 Rogers, MN 55374 | (PCS) 612-306-6055 From austad at marketwatch.com Wed May 2 09:35:27 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] vpn from linux Message-ID: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F1098E0@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> What kind of VPN? PPTP? L2TP? Simple IP or GRE tunnel? > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Dagastino [mailto:scottdagastino@yahoo.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 9:13 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] vpn from linux > > > Does anyone know how to hookup vpn (if even available) > on linux? > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From stauffer_james at yahoo.com Wed May 2 09:39:51 2001 From: stauffer_james at yahoo.com (James A. N. Stauffer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] vpn from linux In-Reply-To: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F1098E0@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20010502143951.71680.qmail@web11504.mail.yahoo.com> You may want to look into CIPE. http://sites.inka.de/~bigred/devel/cipe.html > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Dagastino [mailto:scottdagastino@yahoo.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 9:13 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] vpn from linux > > > Does anyone know how to hookup vpn (if even available) > on linux? ===== = o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ _____=======_||___ o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | | Stauffer_James | .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | | @yahoo.com | >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|________________| _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o¬o¬o o¬o¬o` 'o¬o o¬o` __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From natecars at real-time.com Wed May 2 09:57:13 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest and >640Kb DSL In-Reply-To: <988754733.3aef332d7346c@dragon> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 May 2001 jethro@yaron.org wrote: > Is anyone using Qwest for REALLY fast DSL? I was thinking of bumping mine > higher than 640, but the people I called at Qwest say there's no such thing. I > did get one of them to say I could get 640 both ways, but thats not much help. > I'm like 5000 feet from the CO so I figure it should be at least POSSIBLE. > Anyone know? One of our customers has 1mb DSL: cbos>show interface wan0 wan0 ADSL Physical Port Line Trained 1280 Kbps down; 1088 Kbps up; 340 baud Line Quality 45 dB TX Power +11.3 dB Remote TX Power +18.7 dB GTI FW Rel 3.00 they are, of course, in a buinding downtown.. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From barnabas at knicknack.net Wed May 2 10:03:46 2001 From: barnabas at knicknack.net (Eric Stanley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] vpn from linux In-Reply-To: <20010502141326.27189.qmail@web9605.mail.yahoo.com>; from scottdagastino@yahoo.com on Wed, May 02, 2001 at 07:13:26AM -0700 References: <20010502141326.27189.qmail@web9605.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010502100346.A5583@knicknack.net> A couple of starting places would be http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/VPN-HOWTO.html and http://www.freeswan.org. Eric On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 07:13:26AM -0700, Scott Dagastino wrote: > Does anyone know how to hookup vpn (if even available) > on linux? > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From dutchman at uswest.net Wed May 2 10:06:52 2001 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Search Problem Message-ID: <3AF0228C.1CF302F9@uswest.net> FYI: I receive the following error when I attempt a search of the mailing list: Warning: Access denied for user: 'udm@sprite.real-time.com' (Using password: YES) in db_func.inc on line 93 Cannot connect to mysql host paladin.real-time.com as user udm Perry Hoekstra From bexley at daily.umn.edu Wed May 2 10:05:14 2001 From: bexley at daily.umn.edu (Benjamin Exley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3AEFDBD9.17359.ECA12@localhost> > the tech support people had. Also, they totally shit their pants if you > mention Linux -- they can't send out a technician to do work on your > telephone line unless you use Windows. (why does my OS affect their > ability to fix my phone line?) Heh. When they asked me what OS I was using I just told the guy to put down whichever one(s) they support. When I moved in to my apartment (by the U campus), we couldn't get DSL because there were load coils in the lines. We tried just about everything we could think of to get Qworst to take them out. Then one day (the day I was about to email directly to the CEO) both the web site and the customer service claimed that DSL was NOW available to me. I figured that they had FINALLY gotten around to taking the local load coils out. So I went ahead and ordered. I too got my modem and software in about 5 days, which was great. The only problem is that at the end of the two week period, DSL didn't work. It took them about another week to figure out that ... wait for it.... I HAD LOAD COILS IN MY LINE! Wow. Who'd have thunk it? The worst part was the service though. Try wasting about 8-10 working hours in a week waiting for technicians who don't show up. ( "Be there from 8-12 AM," and they show up at 9pm). So far the experince has been ok except for the repair side of things. Just pray nothing breaks on their end and it should be fine. Ben ----------- Benjamin Exley The Minnesota Daily Information Systems Manager (612)627-4070 x3190 From natecars at real-time.com Wed May 2 10:18:55 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Search Problem In-Reply-To: <3AF0228C.1CF302F9@uswest.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 May 2001, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > I receive the following error when I attempt a search of the mailing > list: > > Warning: Access denied for user: 'udm@sprite.real-time.com' (Using > password: YES) in db_func.inc on line 93 > Cannot connect to mysql host paladin.real-time.com as user udm Actually just fixed this. :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From jeffr at odeon.net Wed May 2 10:49:39 2001 From: jeffr at odeon.net (jeffr@odeon.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! In-Reply-To: <3AEFDBD9.17359.ECA12@localhost> Message-ID: I'll second that. The last time I had a problem with my DSL line, it turns out QWest was having an 'issue with one of their routers up stream from me' (their tech lackey's eventual conclusion). It was preventing me (and my few neighbors with DSL) from leaving their network, and it took nearly two weeks to convince them that they had a problem. When it works it's great. When it breaks it takes for ever to get them to fix it if it's a problem on their end. Jeff On Wed, 2 May 2001, Benjamin Exley wrote: [snip] > Just pray nothing breaks on their end and it should be fine. [snip] From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed May 2 10:49:12 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! In-Reply-To: <3AEFDBD9.17359.ECA12@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 May 2001, Benjamin Exley wrote: > The worst part was the service though. Try wasting about 8-10 > working hours in a week waiting for technicians who don't show up. > ( "Be there from 8-12 AM," and they show up at 9pm). So far the > experince has been ok except for the repair side of things. Just > pray nothing breaks on their end and it should be fine. I don't know this -- maybe someone who has closer ties to them would -- but their technicians seem to be in "districts" of some sort, probably attached somehow to COs if I had to guess. I seem to be in a good district -- never had any troubles, and they have always been speedy. Believe it or not, bad reports included, the metro area (and MN in general) seems to have far *less* crap from them then they are allowed to pull in some other states. Qwest in NM (with a different Public Utilities Commission) gets away with even more murder. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From colin at tyr.med.umn.edu Wed May 2 10:53:29 2001 From: colin at tyr.med.umn.edu (Colin Kilbane) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] tool bar problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Which applet on the toobar in genome, (RH 7) allows the windows to be minimized on to it like windows. Somehow whilst meddeling with it this function vanished. Colin Kilbane From mjn at umn.edu Wed May 2 12:12:28 2001 From: mjn at umn.edu (mjn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yea. Murphy's kicks in when you are downloading a Linux image and the phone rings and your DSL modem mysteriously drops its connection. Every time the phone rings... Anyone else having this problem? I sure am... ____________________________ Mike Neuharth ADCS Technology Specialist http://www.umn.edu/adcs E-Mail : mjn@umn.edu Page Mail : 6126486512@page.metrocall.com http://supermonkeycollider.dyndns.org/ ____________________________ From colin at tyr.med.umn.edu Wed May 2 10:59:54 2001 From: colin at tyr.med.umn.edu (Colin Kilbane) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Last year a USwest truck backed into the phone boxes on the utility pole out back and flattened them. Needless to say the phones did not work very well. I have been trying to get them to realize that when their equipment is held together with duct tape and garbage bags that it needs to be replaced but they refuse to do so. Our dsl goes out on a regular basis. Infact it was out for the entire month of august last year. Over 45 phone calls were made and finaly somebody showed up and said that he couldn't touch the problem because it had to do with megabit services. It took another two weeks to get a megabit services person out there. US-west how can we do you today. Quest has inproved the services quite a bit, but that is just turning down the thermostat in hell. Colin Kilbane From tanner at real-time.com Wed May 2 14:38:03 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Problem reporting Message-ID: <20010502143803.A1729@real-time.com> IF there is any problems with the tclug web site, searching, ftp area, etc. Please don't broadcast it to the list. Send email to support@real-time.com or info@mn-linux.org Thanks. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010502/2d18b68d/attachment.pgp From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed May 2 14:17:57 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! Message-ID: <3af05d65.715.269167349@cloudnet.com> > phone rings and your DSL modem mysteriously drops its > connection. Every > time the phone rings... Are you sure every phone of yours has a line filter? From tanner at real-time.com Wed May 2 14:38:03 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Problem reporting Message-ID: <20010502143803.A1729@real-time.com> IF there is any problems with the tclug web site, searching, ftp area, etc. Please don't broadcast it to the list. Send email to support@real-time.com or info@mn-linux.org Thanks. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010502/2d18b68d/attachment-0001.pgp From chewie at wookimus.net Wed May 2 11:23:47 2001 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] bash commands for a specific host? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 02 May 2001 09:20:07 CDT." <3AF01797.2F39F87B@ltiflex.com> References: <20010501180526.A6925@real-time.com> <20010501193121.A12398@real-time.com> <3AF00B61.AFFC785F@structural-wood.com> <3AF01797.2F39F87B@ltiflex.com> Message-ID: <20010502162347.B77D618003@skuld.wk> In message <3AF01797.2F39F87B@ltiflex.com>, Andy Zbikowski writes: > Sure, you should see my config, based heavily on ^chewies... Oh, gods. You had to point it out that I created that monstrosity. Yes, for a while, I was on the whole SysV rc?.d style of doing things for my shells. I just continually ran into problems with ssh sessions when I used this style of sourcing rc scripts. I had to throw in ugly test statements like: # is this an SSH session? if [ -n $SSH_CLIENT ] ; then ## blah... fi I know for a fact that ssh sessions and scp sessions die any time you try to execute a program in your .bashrc and the way I had my profile set up, in your .bash_profile. Now-a-days, I refrain from executing programs or using the funky SysV style directories. I just never successfully tracked down the problems I was having. Anyway, to answer the question host specific rc files, Yaron's and Andy's suggestion is the cleanest. HOSTNAME is set by default in my shells, but that may be an operation of pam rather than bash itself. Regardless, you can ensure that HOSTNAME is populated by using parameter expansion/assignment: # ${parameter:=word} where if parameter not populated, assign # word. word is subject to command substitution, parameter # expansion, etc. We use command substitution: $(command). ${HOSTNAME:=$(hostname)} So your check in .bashrc would look like this: # test for the hostname rc file (and assign the hostname if we # haven't already done so if [ -f ${HOME}/.bashrc.${HOSTNAME:=$(hostname)} ] ; then . ${HOME}/.bashrc.${HOSTNAME} fi If you want login specific stuff, use a ~/.bash_profile.hostname file and place the same check in your ~/.bash_profile. Symbolic links will work as well, so if multiple hosts share a common setup, you can name that ~/.bashrc.setup and link each of the hostnames to that file. Remember, to debug things, toggle the trace option at the beginning and end of your rc files: # start trace set -x # end trace set +x -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Key fingerprint = B4AB D627 9CBD 687E 7A31 1950 0CC7 0B18 206C 5AFD From ben at nerp.net Wed May 2 11:35:18 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] vpn from linux In-Reply-To: <20010502141326.27189.qmail@web9605.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- it all depends on what VPN system you are trying to setup, or connect to. personaly, my roomie has setup Vtun, which is more of a unix only VPN system, and PPTP server for windows clients (MS VPN) with PoPToP. I've also heard of people doing other protocols, like IPSEC. tho I have found a couple of small proprietary protocols that don't work at all.. (not open standards, wouldn't trust them anyway) Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Wed, 2 May 2001, Scott Dagastino wrote: > Does anyone know how to hookup vpn (if even available) > on linux? > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOvA3R8tpDhsSpvgtAQEurAQAptv0OjqOHAlao33IIjMBB2zskMRxhDXe mYylBAiJculLFXU1Fe/Pqrm9thcZyXs6uMkoYtwrQiPpqKTPDfJuzgpAA6axCN0y KNw4W+kLJMqj/lJtdCBf1+Z8Q0XFWf1hKBlKZI36Iu8jfJpFgxEg3/wnedAzDVuG P9zovsOnl+s= =gCOa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jeffr at odeon.net Wed May 2 12:19:08 2001 From: jeffr at odeon.net (jeffr@odeon.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] tool bar problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It's the pager applet. Jeff On Wed, 2 May 2001, Colin Kilbane wrote: > Which applet on the toobar in genome, (RH 7) allows the windows to be > minimized on to it like windows. Somehow whilst meddeling with it this > function vanished. > > Colin Kilbane > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From tanner at real-time.com Wed May 2 13:42:50 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] bash commands for a specific host? In-Reply-To: <3AF00B61.AFFC785F@structural-wood.com>; from kent@structural-wood.com on Wed, May 02, 2001 at 08:28:01AM -0500 References: <20010501180526.A6925@real-time.com> <20010501193121.A12398@real-time.com> <3AF00B61.AFFC785F@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <20010502134250.J1221@real-time.com> Quoting Kent Schumacher (kent@structural-wood.com): > In other words I have the same .bashrc on all the machines, and in > that .bashrc I have > > CUSTOMRC=.bashrc.`hostname` > > [ -x "$CUSTOMRC" ] && { > . "$CUSTOMRC" > } > > I think you could also simply modify /etc/profile to do this also. > I'm not sure if /etc/profile is 'standard', although it has worked > in every circumstance I have tried it. I did a similar thing. Thanks. I was just seeing if bash did this by default. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010502/376a8284/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Wed May 2 13:48:44 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] vpn from linux In-Reply-To: <20010502141326.27189.qmail@web9605.mail.yahoo.com>; from scottdagastino@yahoo.com on Wed, May 02, 2001 at 07:13:26AM -0700 References: <20010502141326.27189.qmail@web9605.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010502134844.L1221@real-time.com> Quoting Scott Dagastino (scottdagastino@yahoo.com): > Does anyone know how to hookup vpn (if even available) > on linux? ipsec works great, pptp is there but I cannot recommend it. Nate has rpm'd up a nice kernel and tools to give you a drop-in VPN solution. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010502/81dd697e/attachment.pgp From jethro at yaron.org Wed May 2 13:07:20 2001 From: jethro at yaron.org (jethro@yaron.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest and >640Kb DSL In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <988826840.3af04cd856ccb@dragon> Hi, Quoting Nate Carlson : > One of our customers has 1mb DSL: ... > they are, of course, in a buinding downtown.. Grrr. This might mean that Qwest actually has a clue. -Yaron -- From rmccloud at wiredhot.net Wed May 2 13:22:51 2001 From: rmccloud at wiredhot.net (Bob McCloud) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:27 2005 Subject: lose connection when phone rings, was Re: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3AF00A2B.18583.413FD0E@localhost> Did you install filters for every phone? Did you use the patch cord with the built in filter before the line reaches your modem? On 2 May 2001, at 12:12, mjn wrote: > > Yea. Murphy's kicks in when you are downloading a Linux image and the > phone rings and your DSL modem mysteriously drops its connection. > Every time the phone rings... > > Anyone else having this problem? I sure am... > > ____________________________ > Mike Neuharth > ADCS Technology Specialist > http://www.umn.edu/adcs > > E-Mail : mjn@umn.edu > Page Mail : 6126486512@page.metrocall.com > http://supermonkeycollider.dyndns.org/ > ____________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list Bob McCloud WiredHot (763) 287-0857 www.wiredhot.net From florin at iucha.net Wed May 2 13:42:59 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 May 2001, mjn wrote: > Yea. Murphy's kicks in when you are downloading a Linux image and the > phone rings and your DSL modem mysteriously drops its connection. Every > time the phone rings... > > Anyone else having this problem? I sure am... No... actually nobody calls me on the phone :) Have you installed the filters? On all the phones? And BTW why are you downloading images all day long? ROFL, florin From tanner at real-time.com Wed May 2 13:56:09 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Testing Message-ID: <20010502135609.B1871@real-time.com> Sorry. Testing mailing list since the IP cutovers. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010502/d9388c79/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Wed May 2 20:08:10 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Power outage, crash, lockfiles and list server Message-ID: <20010502200810.I6925@real-time.com> With the power outage, the list server sucked the ups dry and shut itself down, nothing wrong with that, it's suppose to do that. :-) But the shutdown process must have caught mailman's qrunner in the middle of a run and killed it, thus leaving orphaned lock files. This resulted in the qrunner NOT being able to run again (it thought there was already a process running). The bottom line we have a huge queue of unprocessed email for the list, sorry about that. I opened up 20 outgoing queues, so it should flush pretty quickly. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Wed May 2 20:31:44 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] tool bar problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010502203144.4b052826.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> wrote: > > It's the pager applet. No, the pager has been separated into two elements. There's the Tasklist and the Desk Guide (pager-like thingy). -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ They're only trying to / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ make me LOOK paranoid! \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From wilson at visi.com Wed May 2 14:14:44 2001 From: wilson at visi.com (Timothy Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 May 2001, mjn wrote: > Yea. Murphy's kicks in when you are downloading a Linux image and the > phone rings and your DSL modem mysteriously drops its connection. Every > time the phone rings... I've experienced this too, but the line usually comes back in a few seconds. Sometimes by ssh sessions drop permanently though. Are you using the filters? I'm not because they seemed to introduce an echo into my regular voice calls. I should do an experiment to see if they prevent the drops. -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.org W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Wed May 2 14:42:51 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] The Loki games order Message-ID: Of the games available at: http://www.random-word.com/games/ what do TCLUG-people like and why? Some might say "just look at the stats on the web page", but I have already purchased "Quake 3", "Heros III", and "Eric's Ultimate Solitaire" (all of which are quite good) so I don't need to buy them and my preference for them is not reflected on the web page. I think that may be the case with others as well. I thought of suggesting a "game review" option from the nice person hosting the web page, but then I thought Yaron had gone "above and beyond the call of duty" already. Does anyone _really_ like (or dislike) one of the games listed? What is this "Tribes 2" all about? From natecars at real-time.com Wed May 2 15:28:28 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] testing Message-ID: blah? -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From clay at fandre.com Wed May 2 15:36:53 2001 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Problem reporting References: <20010502143803.A1729@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3AF06FE5.2171DD1A@fandre.com> Bob Tanner wrote: > > IF there is any problems with the tclug web site, searching, ftp area, etc. > Please don't broadcast it to the list. > > Send email to support@real-time.com or info@mn-linux.org And if you're complaining about how much the TCLUG website sucks, send that to /dev/null. J/K. Send those complaints to webmaster@mn-linux.org. You can also fill out the feedback form for anything and it will be anonymous. http://www.mn-linux.org/feedback/ From jethro at freakzilla.com Wed May 2 21:04:20 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] The Loki games order In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, On Wed, 2 May 2001, Troy Johnson wrote: > I thought of suggesting a "game review" option from the nice person > hosting the web page, but then I thought Yaron had gone "above and > beyond the call of duty" already. Hey, you write it, I'll post it. Open Call for Game Reviews. > Does anyone _really_ like (or dislike) one of the games listed? What is > this "Tribes 2" all about? I'll field this one... The original Tribes came out a few years ago. On the surface of things it's Yet Another FPS. But it's more than that. For one, it's very team-oriented. Also, a great deal of the game takes place outdoors rather than in dark caverns, and the graphics are outstanding. And unlike Quake, unreal or even Counterstrike, there's a LOT of strategy involved, especially in some of the mods like Shifter. With Tribes, you can run around killing people. But you can also pilot vehicles to bombard the enemy, scout out their defenses, or transport Heavily Armoured teammates. You can put on an Engineer armour and go hack into the enemy's base, or repair stuff, or set up defense turrets, mines, cameras and more. If you _must_ kill people, you can be a sleek and fast lightly armoured scout, or a heavily armoured juggernaught, or a whole variety or armour classes/weights/weapon-complement in between. Now, what's better about Tribes 2? Well, better graphics, for one. Personally I'm waiting till the Cool mods make the transition (: HTH, -Yaron -- From dutchman at uswest.net Wed May 2 21:20:46 2001 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Problem reporting References: <20010502143803.A1729@real-time.com> <3AF06FE5.2171DD1A@fandre.com> Message-ID: <3AF0C07E.FFCC506F@uswest.net> Huh? I was searching for something and the search form barfed. I sent the error message to the list because I did not know about the email address support@real-time.com but I did know that Bob and Nate monitored the list. Now how is reporting a problem stretched to complaining how much the TCLUG website sucks?? Clay Fandre wrote: > Bob Tanner wrote: > > > > IF there is any problems with the tclug web site, searching, ftp area, etc. > > Please don't broadcast it to the list. > > > > Send email to support@real-time.com or info@mn-linux.org > > And if you're complaining about how much the TCLUG website sucks, send > that to /dev/null. > > J/K. Send those complaints to webmaster@mn-linux.org. You can also fill > out the feedback form for anything and it will be anonymous. > http://www.mn-linux.org/feedback/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Solutions perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From scottdagastino at yahoo.com Wed May 2 22:23:41 2001 From: scottdagastino at yahoo.com (Scott Dagastino) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] problems with telnet Message-ID: <20010503032341.41837.qmail@web9607.mail.yahoo.com> I just installed linux-mandrake. I first had problems enabling ftp from my other windows box onto linux but discovered my problem. My new problem is unable to connect to linux using telnet. It finds the ip address with no problem but says the remote host closed the connection or connection refused. Any suggestions Scott Dagastino __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From andyzib at ringworld.org Wed May 2 23:21:11 2001 From: andyzib at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] problems with telnet References: <20010503032341.41837.qmail@web9607.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3AF0DCB7.BB477FEF@ringworld.org> Depending on your setup, your linux box might not be able to resolve the hostname of the box your connecting from. If your doing an internal network, you can fix this by setting up a private root DNS server for your provate network, manually create static entries in /etc/hosts, or add entries to /etc/hosts.allow and remove parinoid checking in /etc/hosts.deny. And it's always worth repeating: telnet bad, ssh good. :) -- | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | This message is protected by double ROT13 | | encryption. Any attempt to circumvent the | | digital protection is banned by the DMCA. | -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: andyzib.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 2265 bytes Desc: Card for Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010502/ab846701/andyzib.vcf From austad at marketwatch.com Wed May 2 15:46:38 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! Message-ID: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F1098EE@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> I've found that threatening them with a call to the Public Utilities Commission gets them off their asses. A former uswest employee said that they now automatically get fined $500 for each complaint by they PUC. Because there are so many complaints, they don't even investigate anymore, they just send them the $500 fine. :) Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Colin Kilbane [mailto:colin@tyr.med.umn.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 11:00 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! > > > Last year a USwest truck backed into the phone boxes on the > utility pole > out back and flattened them. Needless to say the phones did > not work very > well. I have been trying to get them to realize that when > their equipment > is held together with duct tape and garbage bags that it needs to be > replaced but they refuse to do so. Our dsl goes out on a > regular basis. > Infact it was out for the entire month of august last year. > Over 45 phone > calls were made and finaly somebody showed up and said that > he couldn't > touch the problem because it had to do with megabit services. It took > another two weeks to get a megabit services person out there. > US-west how can we do you today. Quest has inproved the > services quite a > bit, but that is just turning down the thermostat in hell. > > Colin Kilbane > > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From ksm at dogbrain.com Thu May 3 00:14:31 2001 From: ksm at dogbrain.com (Karl Morgan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] problems with telnet In-Reply-To: <20010503032341.41837.qmail@web9607.mail.yahoo.com>; from scottdagastino@yahoo.com on Wed, May 02, 2001 at 08:23:41PM -0700 References: <20010503032341.41837.qmail@web9607.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010503001431.A1148@dogbrain.com> I had a Mandrake box for a couple days. Version 8.0 I think? I recall that telnet server was not installed by default. You have to add the rpm manually after install. I know the ssh server was installed by default. If you have an ssh capable client then you could use that instead. Regards - Karl On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 08:23:41PM -0700, Scott Dagastino wrote: > I just installed linux-mandrake. I first had problems > enabling ftp from my other windows box onto linux but > discovered my problem. > > My new problem is unable to connect to linux using > telnet. It finds the ip address with no problem but > says the remote host closed the connection or > connection refused. > > Any suggestions > Scott Dagastino > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Karl Morgan http://www.dogbrain.com From alborchers at steinerpoint.com Wed May 2 16:12:31 2001 From: alborchers at steinerpoint.com (Al Borchers) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dvorak References: <200105021422.f42EM8k02308@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <3AF0783F.EF257031@steinerpoint.com> > > There is certainly a much smaller number than 26!. The order of an element > > in the symmetric group is the LCM of its cycle lengths. For QWERTY->DVORAK > > I get the cycle decomposition of > > > > (Q ' - [ / Z ; S O R P L N B X) (W ,) (E . V K T Y F U G I C J H D) (A) (M) > > That's what I was curious about. Did you sit down and map it? I guess > there was nothing on T.V. Don't know what I might have missed on TV...Buffy's mom die again? I found a chart on the web showing QWERTY and Dvorak side by side, then it just took a minute to write down the permutation as cycles--that's hardly a computation, just a different way of writing it down. A concrete example seemed better than a theorem. My real point was just that permutations have small orders relative to the order of the group and you can compute them quite easily. -- Al From blayer at qwest.net Wed May 2 16:48:00 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DSL dumps connection on ring-in In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010502164800.7389c8ef.blayer@qwest.net> On Wed, 2 May 2001 12:12:28 -0500 (CDT) "mjn" wrote: > > Yea. Murphy's kicks in when you are downloading a Linux image and the > phone rings and your DSL modem mysteriously drops its connection. Every > time the phone rings... Interesting, when a phone rings the impedance it presents to the line changes due to the reactance of the bell circuit (which has both inductive & capacitive reactance components, the bell is essentially a simple AC coil in series with a .47uF capacitor, at least on a mechanical telephone set). This really shouldn't affect the DSL service. One possibility though, is that you have a damaged ringing capacitor (or coil?) somewhere, that manifests a DC short when it passes the ringing current... If the DC resistance drops too far, this will kill any AC signals at _any_ of the frequencies we are dealing with. Also, electronic telephones with oscillating ringers can have very odd effects under ringing load, so they might be suspect. Have you considered removing all of the analog telecom devices on the line, then having someone 'ring' in (you won't hear it obviously) and see if it still dumps the connection? If it doesn't, it's safe to say that the issue is related to one of the analog devices, and more specifically it's reactance. Troubleshoot by adding them back in one at a time. If connections still drop, I would suspect that somehow the ringing voltage is affecting the modem, which would tend to indicate a defective modem..? Also, are you sure that you might not have a filter in backwards somewhere? My DSL serivce worked for several days, and then mysteriously went down - the cause was a backward filter. I'm not sure what 'changed' to make a previously acceptable condition suddenly a cause for failure. BTW, I do not have this problem :)) -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From cbidler at talkware.net Wed May 2 16:54:34 2001 From: cbidler at talkware.net (Chris Bidler) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! References: Message-ID: <3AF0821A.7000707@talkware.net> mjn wrote: > Yea. Murphy's kicks in when you are downloading a Linux image and the > phone rings and your DSL modem mysteriously drops its connection. Every > time the phone rings... > > Anyone else having this problem? I sure am.. You *do* have the little filter-dongles on all your phones, right? -- <----------------------------------------------------------------------> Chris H. Bidler cbidler@talkware.net Associate Engineer, Sysadmin Group Universal Talkware Corp. "In any event, is a O^(log N) search that returns the wrong answer really better than an O^N search that returns the right answer?" <----------------------------------------------------------------------> From blayer at qwest.net Wed May 2 16:54:36 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] tool bar problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010502165436.1251ce88.blayer@qwest.net> On Wed, 2 May 2001 10:53:29 -0500 (CDT) "Colin Kilbane" wrote: > Which applet on the toobar in genome, (RH 7) allows the windows to be > minimized on to it like windows. Somehow whilst meddeling with it this > function vanished. That applet is called 'Tasklist' (Applets > Utilities > Tasklist) Disappearance of the tasklist was an infamous & annoying bug in older versions of Gnome, but it still shows up once in a while. Mine disappeared as recently as two months ago... Yet another reason that we need a way better & more stable GUI for Linux. Take a look at the QNX Photon GUI - it fits into a meg or two, and is rock-solid, with good function. Why in the world *we* can't have something this slick is beyond my comprehension. Something tells me we are at the mercy of X. Then again, if I'm not willing to write it, I'd better not biatch about it. Sigh. -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From blayer at qwest.net Wed May 2 17:00:20 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Printing, lp.o & extreme sluggishness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010502170020.4ad290eb.blayer@qwest.net> I've noticed something really odd & bothersome about using the lp.o module for printing. Once you print a single job, you can not shut off the printer at any time or the system slows to a snail's pace crawl, practically locked-up... the only way to get it back (other than switching the printer back on) is to remove the lp & parport_pc modules, then kill the lpd... What is up with this? How can i fix it? -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From austad at marketwatch.com Wed May 2 18:01:26 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] kernel 2.4 network performance probs Message-ID: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F1098F2@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> I have tried 3 different ethernet cards, a tulip, an eepro100, and a 3c59x. I cannot get more than about 11Mb/sec out of them. At 11Mb/sec, /var/log/syslog fills with this: May 2 17:51:57 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/3419 c2 l0 ss2/2 p0 May 2 17:52:00 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/2634 c2 l0 ss2/2 p0 May 2 17:52:00 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/3228 c2 l0 ss2/2 p0 May 2 17:52:06 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/4646 c2 l0 ss2/2 p0 May 2 17:52:06 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/4647 c2 l0 ss2/2 p0 May 2 17:52:09 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/4222 c2 l0 ss2/2 p0 May 2 17:52:09 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/4524 c2 l0 ss2/2 p0 May 2 17:52:14 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/4520 c2 l0 ss2/2 p0 10.10.220.101 is the machine I'm testing from. The message appears from any machine I'm testing on. All machines are plugged into the same switch, and forced to 100/full. I have no problems with my 2.2 kernels, only the 2.4 kernels. Does anyone have any ideas? Jay From clay at fandre.com Thu May 3 06:14:56 2001 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Problem reporting References: <20010502143803.A1729@real-time.com> <3AF06FE5.2171DD1A@fandre.com> <3AF0C07E.FFCC506F@uswest.net> Message-ID: <3AF13DB0.4415D1CF@fandre.com> Perry Hoekstra wrote: > > Huh? > > I was searching for something and the search form barfed. I sent the error > message to the list because I did not know about the email address > support@real-time.com but I did know that Bob and Nate monitored the list. > > Now how is reporting a problem stretched to complaining how much the TCLUG > website sucks?? I just thought I'd mention it because I have gotten complaints in the past. Nothing against you. Just for the record, I am planning on adding some things to the TCLUG webpages as soon as things calm down for me. (and I get my DSL back!) From clay at fandre.com Thu May 3 06:19:16 2001 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Make Money Quick References: <200105030002.f4302Wk14140@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <3AF13EB4.A9CB3E39@fandre.com> Johny wrote: > > Do you want to make money fast and legal? Well it is easy! > infact thousands of people are trying it right now as we speak! All you have to do is

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> Your Friend Johny Money? Why do I need to make money fast? I run Linux. Maybe he should send this to some Microsoft list or something. From fertch at mninter.net Thu May 3 08:12:41 2001 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] vpn from linux References: <20010502141326.27189.qmail@web9605.mail.yahoo.com> <20010502134844.L1221@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3AF15949.F2B571E7@mninter.net> Bob Tanner wrote: > > Quoting Scott Dagastino (scottdagastino@yahoo.com): > > Does anyone know how to hookup vpn (if even available) > > on linux? > > ipsec works great, pptp is there but I cannot recommend it. > > Nate has rpm'd up a nice kernel and tools to give you a drop-in VPN solution. On IPSEC VPN, how does that work within one network with NAT going to another network? For a while, anyone with IPSEC VPN couldn't go from one LAN to the other they are trying to connect to. Shawn From barnabas at knicknack.net Thu May 3 08:29:38 2001 From: barnabas at knicknack.net (Eric Stanley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] vpn from linux In-Reply-To: <3AF15949.F2B571E7@mninter.net>; from fertch@mninter.net on Thu, May 03, 2001 at 08:12:41AM -0500 References: <20010502141326.27189.qmail@web9605.mail.yahoo.com> <20010502134844.L1221@real-time.com> <3AF15949.F2B571E7@mninter.net> Message-ID: <20010503082938.A10092@knicknack.net> Are you asking about routing traffic to and/or from a network which has non-routable addresses (192.168.x.y for example)? If so, this is easily done, at least with FreeS/WAN, which is what I have implemented. I have implemented several VPN connections between networks with non-routable addresses. The mode that FreeS/WAN assumes is one where the two machines running FreeS/WAN are simply gateways that tunnel traffic for the networks behind them. HTH, Eric On Thu, May 03, 2001 at 08:12:41AM -0500, Shawn wrote: > Bob Tanner wrote: > > > > Quoting Scott Dagastino (scottdagastino@yahoo.com): > > > Does anyone know how to hookup vpn (if even available) > > > on linux? > > > > ipsec works great, pptp is there but I cannot recommend it. > > > > Nate has rpm'd up a nice kernel and tools to give you a drop-in VPN solution. > > On IPSEC VPN, how does that work within one network with NAT going to > another network? For a while, anyone with IPSEC VPN couldn't go from > one LAN to the other they are trying to connect to. > > Shawn > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From andy at theasis.com Thu May 3 08:40:41 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] The Loki games order In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > If you _must_ kill people, you can be a sleek and fast lightly armoured > scout, or a heavily armoured juggernaught, or a whole variety or armour > classes/weights/weapon-complement in between. Many people don't take advantage of the team aspect, and don't seem to care much how the team does. They stick to dueling, which I got bored with in 1990. I've been playing T2 since it came out, and I'm not especially good at dueling, maybe partly because my internet connection isn't so hot. I do set up some very effective defenses -- sensors and turret grids. The scoring system does reward this, since it tallies both "points" and "kills". The latter are direct kills that you execute, while the points come from repairing, taking out certain enemy hardware, or kills achieved by your turrets. > Now, what's better about Tribes 2? Well, better graphics, for one. > Personally I'm waiting till the Cool mods make the transition (: Mods should be emphasized. First of all, the architecture of the game makes mod creation really accessible to people -- there's the physics engine, and then everything else is scripts -- for both the maps and the functionality of all the objects. The game comes with a map editor, and all the .vl2 files are in fact uncompressed .zips. Which means you can just dive in and start messing with stuff. You can change the maps, the look and functionality of the vehicles, or the things that are available from the inventory system. The documentation isn't really there, but you can expect that to develop in the user community over time. As Yaron suggests, mods that people make tend to strongly reinforce the motivation for team play. This includes more specialization in classes, so that each player would have more flexibility in what/how many items he could carry if he is, say, an engineer. It also opens up the possibility to enrich the scoring system, so that there are more ways to improve your score than just killing players on the other team. However, it goes beyond this, in that you can make an extreme enough mod to completely change the nature of the game. Andy > > -Yaron From mjn at umn.edu Thu May 3 08:55:38 2001 From: mjn at umn.edu (mjn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! In-Reply-To: <3AF0821A.7000707@talkware.net> Message-ID: On May 2, 2001 Chris Bidler said something like: > > Yea. Murphy's kicks in when you are downloading a Linux image and the > > phone rings and your DSL modem mysteriously drops its connection. Every > > time the phone rings... > > > > Anyone else having this problem? I sure am.. > > You *do* have the little filter-dongles on all your phones, right? > At first I was going to ignore all of the "you've got filters on all the phones, right?" emails but just so we're clear. Yes, I do. ____________________________ Mike Neuharth ADCS Technology Specialist http://www.umn.edu/adcs E-Mail : mjn@umn.edu Page Mail : 6126486512@page.metrocall.com http://supermonkeycollider.dyndns.org/ ____________________________ From esper at sherohman.org Thu May 3 08:59:32 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Make Money Quick In-Reply-To: <200105030002.f4302Wk14140@sprite.real-time.com>; from johny@rich.com on Wed, May 02, 2001 at 07:02:42PM -0500 References: <200105030002.f4302Wk14140@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010503085932.A4333@sherohman.org> On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 07:02:42PM -0500, Johny wrote: > Do you want to make money fast and legal? Well it is easy! > infact thousands of people are trying it right now as we speak! All you have to do is

> Just Click Here and sign up!

This is an... odd spam. I don't think I've seen (or at least noticed) an apparent sex spam claiming to be MMF before. -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.1: GCS d? s+: a- C++ UL++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w---$ O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv b+ DI++++ D G e* h+ r y+ From mkroska at readynetgo.com Thu May 3 10:08:21 2001 From: mkroska at readynetgo.com (Mark K) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Access Control Lists Message-ID: Although this is not necessarily TCLUG specific, I'm sure there are others that have similar conf issues. Using a Linux box, running RH7.0 / Apache that comes with the install, here is what I want to do: Set up an access control list that * Doesn't prompt for a password when coming from the local network (using pre-defined IP blocks, 192.168.*) * Does prompt for a password when coming in from the Internet (all other, non 192.168.* addresses) I'm just not sure how to set up an "If-Then" with .htpasswd Basically, making an Extranet more friendly from home, then access from on the road. Ideas? Thanks in advance. Mark -- ________________________________________________________ ReadyNET Go!, Inc. - Building your Business on the net ________________________________________________________ Mark J. Kroska MIS Director 320.656.0765 Voice 888.447.3239 Toll Free 320.203.7052 Fax http://www.readynetgo.com mailto:mkroska@readynetgo.com ________________________________________________________ From lxy at cloudnet.com Thu May 3 09:26:17 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Make Money Quick Message-ID: <3af16a89.2d27.269167349@cloudnet.com> All you have to do is

> > Just href=http://www.adultfriendfinder.com/go/p39843c>Click > Here and sign up!

Yes Johnny, and all you need to do is learn how to use HREF correctly. :-) From ssinn at qwest.net Thu May 3 10:18:46 2001 From: ssinn at qwest.net (Spencer J Sinn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! References: Message-ID: <3AF176D6.E1BA1EA3@qwest.net> I ran into 2 problems with Qwest DSL that may or may not be related. The first problem was the result of a faulty water-meter reader. Everytime the water company would dial up the meter, it would kill our phone service. The other problem resulted from a second phone line coming into the house. Billing had been stopped for it but it was never disconnected at the switch, so DSL service contantly dropped. Not quite your problem but 2 more things to check out :) From tanner at real-time.com Thu May 3 10:33:20 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:29 2005 Subject: [johny@rich.com: [TCLUG] Make Money Quick] Message-ID: <20010503103320.A18361@real-time.com> Wow, this "user" is subscribed to the list. The spammers are getting better. ----- Forwarded message from Johny ----- > From: "Johny" > Subject: [TCLUG] Make Money Quick > Date: Wed, 2 May 101 19:02:42 CDT > > Do you want to make money fast and legal? Well it is easy! > infact thousands of people are trying it right now as we speak! All you have to do is

> Just Click Here and sign up!

> Sincerly
> Your Friend Johny > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From bexley at daily.umn.edu Thu May 3 10:32:38 2001 From: bexley at daily.umn.edu (Benjamin Exley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! In-Reply-To: <3AF0821A.7000707@talkware.net> Message-ID: <3AF133C6.20282.28EA3D@localhost> On 2 May 2001, at 16:54, Chris Bidler wrote: > mjn wrote: > > > Yea. Murphy's kicks in when you are downloading a Linux image and the > > phone rings and your DSL modem mysteriously drops its connection. Every > > time the phone rings... > > > > Anyone else having this problem? I sure am.. > > You *do* have the little filter-dongles on all your phones, right? I have the same problem, and yes I've got dongles on all the phones. Except the one 900 MHz cordless that is plugged in to the router (the 675). I am assuming that it is internally filtered. I also notice that static-echo thing all the time, and being on the phone seems to have a detrimental effect on DSL connectivity. Also, it seems to go down with regularity about 25% of every weekend. Not 25% of weekends, 25% of EVERY weekend. That's great when you've got your friends over for some net party action and you can't use the internet for a good 4 hours. We used to call tech support every time there was a problem, but we got pretty tired of "Is it plugged in? Try doing 'nvram erase'". We had one tech that walked us through completely hosing our DSL setup. Good thing WE knew how to fix it. It was kinda funny to tell him exactly how he'd screwed everything up though. I think our techtalk lost HIM after about 2 minutes. ----------- Benjamin Exley The Minnesota Daily Information Systems Manager (612)627-4070 x3190 From HOEFFNER at dcmir.med.umn.edu Thu May 3 10:44:00 2001 From: HOEFFNER at dcmir.med.umn.edu (HOEFFNER@dcmir.med.umn.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (no subject) Message-ID: <010503104400.20352383@dcmir.med.umn.edu> Hi Thought you guys might be interested in the following: SEVERAL MAKERS PLAN HANDHELDS THAT USE LINUX Several electronics makers have announced plans to release handheld devices based on the Linux open source operating system. Among the firms now developing the devices are Agenda Computing, Sharp, and Royal Consumer Business Products, a subsidiary of Olivetti. The makers hope that using Linux will offer them a competitive edge against Palm, which has a 75 percent share in the market for handheld operating systems. Linux proponents say the software will provide the same advantages to handheld devices as it does to PCs--a sturdy system, capable of running multiple programs at the same time. However, Linux-based handhelds would also face the same disadvantages as Linux-based PCs: There is no standard among Linux developers, so most Linux-based devices would be incompatible. Also, there is no established Linux support network. (Wall Street Journal, 1 May 2001) Ed Hoeffner 1-271 BSBE 312 Church St. SE Mpls, MN 55455 hoeffner@dcmir.med.umn.edu 612-625-2115 612-625-2163 fax From blutgens at sistina.com Thu May 3 10:53:48 2001 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Access Control Lists In-Reply-To: ; from mkroska@readynetgo.com on Thu, May 03, 2001 at 10:08:21AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010503105348.F4966@minime.sistina.com> On Thu, May 03, 2001 at 10:08:21AM -0500, Mark K wrote: > >Although this is not necessarily TCLUG specific, I'm sure there are others >that have similar conf issues. >Using a Linux box, running RH7.0 / Apache that comes with the install, >here is what I want to do: >Set up an access control list that >* Doesn't prompt for a password when coming from the local network > (using pre-defined IP blocks, 192.168.*) >* Does prompt for a password when coming in from the Internet > (all other, non 192.168.* addresses) this is what we use here in .htaccess order deny,allow deny from all Options +ExecCGI order deny,allow deny from all allow from .sistina.com AuthName "restricted stuff" AuthType Basic AuthUserFile /path/to/users require valid-user Satisfy any -----------------SNIP and the format of the users file is username:cryptpw > >I'm just not sure how to set up an "If-Then" with .htpasswd >Basically, making an Extranet more friendly from home, then access from on >the road. Ideas? > >Thanks in advance. >Mark > >-- >________________________________________________________ >ReadyNET Go!, Inc. - Building your Business on the net >________________________________________________________ > >Mark J. Kroska >MIS Director > >320.656.0765 Voice >888.447.3239 Toll Free >320.203.7052 Fax >http://www.readynetgo.com >mailto:mkroska@readynetgo.com >________________________________________________________ > > > > >_______________________________________________ >tclug-list mailing list >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Ben Lutgens cell: XXX.XXX.XXXX Sistina Software Inc. work: XXX.XXX.XXXX Mailing list admin / Punching Bag (and sorta sysadmin guy) http://www.sistina.com/ <--- great software http://www.gentoo.org/ <--- great distro Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream <--- perfect error message -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010503/e17e0879/attachment.pgp From veldy at veldy.net Thu May 3 11:09:09 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:30 2005 Subject: [johny@rich.com: [TCLUG] Make Money Quick] References: <20010503103320.A18361@real-time.com> Message-ID: <013d01c0d3eb$62f8ed30$3028680a@tgt.com> Somebody probably wrote some software that handles subscribing to mailman in an automated way. Perhaps a NO spam agreement should be acknowledged and an agreement to pay said clean-up costs as part of subscribing to a list. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Tanner" To: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 10:33 AM Subject: [johny@rich.com: [TCLUG] Make Money Quick] > Wow, this "user" is subscribed to the list. The spammers are getting better. > > ----- Forwarded message from Johny ----- > > > From: "Johny" > > Subject: [TCLUG] Make Money Quick > > Date: Wed, 2 May 101 19:02:42 CDT > > > > Do you want to make money fast and legal? Well it is easy! > > infact thousands of people are trying it right now as we speak! All you have to do is

> > Just Click Here and sign up!

> > Sincerly
> > Your Friend Johny > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From natecars at real-time.com Thu May 3 11:12:43 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] vpn from linux In-Reply-To: <3AF15949.F2B571E7@mninter.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 May 2001, Shawn wrote: > On IPSEC VPN, how does that work within one network with NAT going to > another network? For a while, anyone with IPSEC VPN couldn't go from > one LAN to the other they are trying to connect to. You just create tunnels for each subnet<->subnet connection.. if you add a default route over IPSec, it ain't gonna work anyways (with frees/wan at least).. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Thu May 3 11:28:57 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:30 2005 Subject: [johny@rich.com: [TCLUG] Make Money Quick] In-Reply-To: <20010503103320.A18361@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 May 2001, Bob Tanner wrote: > Wow, this "user" is subscribed to the list. The spammers are getting better. Worse, I'd say. :( -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Thu May 3 11:51:43 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Access Control Lists In-Reply-To: <20010503105348.F4966@minime.sistina.com> Message-ID: This is probably way more basic than some of you need, but http://www.math.umn.edu/~garrett/shortest/htaccess.txt (Go up a dir or link from his home page, and there are some other nifty "shortest guides" to $x) On Thu, 3 May 2001, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Thu, May 03, 2001 at 10:08:21AM -0500, Mark K wrote: > > > >Although this is not necessarily TCLUG specific, I'm sure there are others > >that have similar conf issues. > >Using a Linux box, running RH7.0 / Apache that comes with the install, > >here is what I want to do: > >Set up an access control list that > >* Doesn't prompt for a password when coming from the local network > > (using pre-defined IP blocks, 192.168.*) > >* Does prompt for a password when coming in from the Internet > > (all other, non 192.168.* addresses) > > this is what we use here in .htaccess > > > order deny,allow > deny from all > > > Options +ExecCGI > > order deny,allow > deny from all > allow from .sistina.com > > AuthName "restricted stuff" > AuthType Basic > AuthUserFile /path/to/users > > require valid-user > > Satisfy any > -----------------SNIP > > and the format of the users file is > > username:cryptpw > > > > >I'm just not sure how to set up an "If-Then" with .htpasswd > >Basically, making an Extranet more friendly from home, then access from on > >the road. Ideas? > > > >Thanks in advance. > >Mark > > > >-- > >________________________________________________________ > >ReadyNET Go!, Inc. - Building your Business on the net > >________________________________________________________ > > > >Mark J. Kroska > >MIS Director > > > >320.656.0765 Voice > >888.447.3239 Toll Free > >320.203.7052 Fax > >http://www.readynetgo.com > >mailto:mkroska@readynetgo.com > >________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >tclug-list mailing list > >tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Thu May 3 11:55:21 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:30 2005 Subject: [johny@rich.com: [TCLUG] Make Money Quick] In-Reply-To: <013d01c0d3eb$62f8ed30$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 May 2001, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > Somebody probably wrote some software that handles subscribing to mailman in > an automated way. Perhaps a NO spam agreement should be acknowledged and an > agreement to pay said clean-up costs as part of subscribing to a list. I got a great tickle out of the paid advertising anti-spam thing on the Debian lists -- you are free to spam, and we'll bill you $1000 a pop (plus atty fees if we have to collect, no?) I just wonder, is it really a big deterrent? -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From tanner at real-time.com Thu May 3 13:05:48 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Spammer pay, was Make Money Quick In-Reply-To: ; from mend0070@tc.umn.edu on Thu, May 03, 2001 at 11:55:21AM -0500 References: <013d01c0d3eb$62f8ed30$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: <20010503130548.H1228@real-time.com> Quoting Phil Mendelsohn (mend0070@tc.umn.edu): > On Thu, 3 May 2001, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > > > Somebody probably wrote some software that handles subscribing to mailman in > > an automated way. Perhaps a NO spam agreement should be acknowledged and an > > agreement to pay said clean-up costs as part of subscribing to a list. > > I got a great tickle out of the paid advertising anti-spam thing on the > Debian lists -- you are free to spam, and we'll bill you $1000 a pop > (plus atty fees if we have to collect, no?) I just wonder, is it really a > big deterrent? So, how do you track them down to charge them? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010503/fea6375c/attachment.pgp From austad at marketwatch.com Thu May 3 13:10:24 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] password policy... Message-ID: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F1098FA@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q276/3/04.ASP Q: What's your password? A: The Declaration of independence with all o's changed to zeros. :) From dhanson2 at uswest.net Thu May 3 13:25:58 2001 From: dhanson2 at uswest.net (Doug Hanson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Spammer pay, was Make Money Quick References: <013d01c0d3eb$62f8ed30$3028680a@tgt.com> <20010503130548.H1228@real-time.com> Message-ID: <00bd01c0d3fe$83052400$eaaf7a81@doug> Take the email and paste it into Spamcop's website, It works great! I have chased down hundreds over the last couple of years. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Tanner" To: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 1:05 PM Subject: [TCLUG] Spammer pay, was Make Money Quick From jethro at freakzilla.com Thu May 3 13:35:09 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Spammer pay, was Make Money Quick In-Reply-To: <20010503130548.H1228@real-time.com> Message-ID: Hi, On Thu, 3 May 2001, Bob Tanner wrote: > So, how do you track them down to charge them? I had a few morons actually include their brick'n'mortar addresses. I sent them out a $500 invoice for my 'archival fee'. Never got anything, naturally... I even sent them a "Final notice" including litigation threats. Never heard back from them, and they obviously never checked the URL for my 'archive'. If you do charge them, and expect to get anything out of them, be prepared to go to court. -Yaron -- From florin at iucha.net Thu May 3 13:48:18 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] kernel 2.4 network performance probs In-Reply-To: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F1098F2@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 May 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > I have tried 3 different ethernet cards, a tulip, an eepro100, and a 3c59x. > I cannot get more than about 11Mb/sec out of them. At 11Mb/sec, 11 Mb/s is ok for 100 Mbit network, if you account for: - network overhead - kernel overhead - disk overhead > /var/log/syslog fills with this: > May 2 17:51:57 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/3419 c2 l0 ss2/2 p0 > May 2 17:52:00 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/2634 c2 l0 ss2/2 p0 > May 2 17:52:00 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/3228 c2 l0 ss2/2 p0 > May 2 17:52:06 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/4646 c2 l0 ss2/2 p0 > May 2 17:52:06 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/4647 c2 l0 ss2/2 p0 > May 2 17:52:09 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/4222 c2 l0 ss2/2 p0 > May 2 17:52:09 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/4524 c2 l0 ss2/2 p0 > May 2 17:52:14 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/4520 c2 l0 ss2/2 p0 What version of 2.4? > 10.10.220.101 is the machine I'm testing from. The message appears from any > machine I'm testing on. All machines are plugged into the same switch, and > forced to 100/full. I have no problems with my 2.2 kernels, only the 2.4 > kernels. Does anyone have any ideas? > florin From simeonuj at eetc.com Thu May 3 14:20:02 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! References: <3AF133C6.20282.28EA3D@localhost> Message-ID: <3AF1AF49.CA9E2948@eetc.com> I seem to remember reading somewhere ( maybe on this list - not sure ) that 900 MHz phones caused a conflict with the DSL signal. Something about the frequency being to close? It may be an even higher MHz phone that was the problem but I'm not sure. Maybe that is a problem? We just got our router from Qwest and I am going to look at it tonight. Should be fun. Any pointers on how to set this thing up? sim Benjamin Exley wrote: > On 2 May 2001, at 16:54, Chris Bidler wrote: > > > mjn wrote: > > > > > Yea. Murphy's kicks in when you are downloading a Linux image and the > > > phone rings and your DSL modem mysteriously drops its connection. Every > > > time the phone rings... > > > > > > Anyone else having this problem? I sure am.. > > > > You *do* have the little filter-dongles on all your phones, right? > > I have the same problem, and yes I've got dongles on all the > phones. Except the one 900 MHz cordless that is plugged in to the > router (the 675). I am assuming that it is internally filtered. I also > notice that static-echo thing all the time, and being on the phone > seems to have a detrimental effect on DSL connectivity. > > Also, it seems to go down with regularity about 25% of every > weekend. Not 25% of weekends, 25% of EVERY weekend. That's > great when you've got your friends over for some net party action > and you can't use the internet for a good 4 hours. We used to call > tech support every time there was a problem, but we got pretty > tired of "Is it plugged in? Try doing 'nvram erase'". > > We had one tech that walked us through completely hosing our > DSL setup. Good thing WE knew how to fix it. It was kinda funny > to tell him exactly how he'd screwed everything up though. I think > our techtalk lost HIM after about 2 minutes. > ----------- > Benjamin Exley > The Minnesota Daily > Information Systems Manager > (612)627-4070 x3190 > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From simeonuj at eetc.com Thu May 3 14:11:59 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] The Loki games order References: Message-ID: <3AF1AD66.271574A@eetc.com> DANG. I want this game. The only problem is that I would have to get a Mac version to play it. My PC is only a 450 with an 8MB AGP card ( Blade 3D - Shared architecture built in ). It will run UT but it kinda sucks. If I had a better vid-card I would buy it but that isn't an option right now. Besides. I would need a PCI card - even more expensive. Great for everything else I do but not much in the 3D gaming department. Sucks to be me. andy@theasis.com wrote: > Many people don't take advantage of the team aspect, and don't seem to > care much how the team does. They stick to dueling, which I got bored with > in 1990. I've been playing T2 since it came out, and I'm not especially > good at dueling, maybe partly because my internet connection isn't so hot. > I do set up some very effective defenses -- sensors and turret grids. The > scoring system does reward this, since it tallies both "points" and > "kills". The latter are direct kills that you execute, while the points > come from repairing, taking out certain enemy hardware, or kills achieved > by your turrets. That is what make this game look soo cool. Every friday ( when there isn't a lot of work ) a bunch of us co - workers get an UT game going. Lots of fun. A couple of nights we came down here and played all night long ( 8:00PM - 7:00AM ). That was fun. Us against the bots. It was insane. That was team play. > Mods should be emphasized. First of all, the architecture of the game > makes mod creation really accessible to people -- there's the physics > engine, and then everything else is scripts -- for both the maps and the > functionality of all the objects. The game comes with a map editor, and > all the .vl2 files are in fact uncompressed .zips. Which means you can > just dive in and start messing with stuff. You can change the maps, the > look and functionality of the vehicles, or the things that are > available from the inventory system. The documentation isn't really > there, but you can expect that to develop in the user community over time. I like the TacOps mod for UT. Lots of fun. sim From jethro at freakzilla.com Thu May 3 14:29:07 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] password policy... In-Reply-To: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F1098FA@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: Hi, On Thu, 3 May 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > Q: What's your password? > A: The Declaration of independence with all o's changed to zeros. That's amazing! I have the same combination on my luggage! -Yaron -- From zibby at ringworld.org Thu May 3 14:40:01 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Spammer pay, was Make Money Quick In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You could be evil and track down the abuse address at the site they were advertising. From the looks of it you click on the address, it adds a count to their ID, then forwards them to the main page. If you report them, and if the company cares, they may just cancel his account and not pay him his $0.02/click. I can see this happening, hell, they don't have to make good on their promice to pay them for the visitors he did bring to the site, so it's a good thing for them. Perhaps we could be evil and add an extra step to subscribing to the list. Fore everyone to take 5 minutes and fill out a survey, thus creating some sort of profile tied to your e-mail address. Have some fun with graphing out the interests of the TCLUG. Questions like: Level experience with linux: What's Linux?, Newbie, Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced, God, 31334 hAx0r, etc... (Of coure, the 31334 hAx0r option throws them into the idiot catagory when the graphs are generated) Favorite distro: I use linux at: home, work, school, bathroom, server, workstation, etc. Of course, this would rely on hacking mailman a bit so it didn't accept subscriptions via e-mail, and forcing some people through such a form would turn them off from the TCLUG list, but it might be a bit more effective at stopping spammers from subscribing...unless they're really determined. Better yet, have all the default selections be really lame, and if you don't change one of the defaults, all e-mail from you is doomed to /dev/null. Hey, it's an idea. I didn't say it was a good one. | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Thu May 3 13:12:30 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Scriptor machinalis: call for participants In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have a nutty project in mind -- a couple of you have heard me babble about it. Here's my idea: I want to write a Latin compiler. This will take programs written in Latin and convert them into machine executable code. This started as a joke of mine. It is often said that Latin is a dead language. One could also say that assembly or machine language is dead. In both cases, it is no longer necessary to learn either for everyday life, but those that have experience in either tend to have a little deeper appreciation of some things. So, the (really abstract geek) joke is that it would be good to combine the two and program in Latin. This is useless, of course, but would have the following side-effects: 1: Provide an educational opportunity in compilers / compiler design 2: Provide an educational opportunity in low-level machine programming 3: Provide an educational opportunity in Latin (small) and a first-look at writing a programming language. 4: Provide me a chance to play with open source, team based software development. (Obviously, this is not as selfish as it sounds.) 5: Provide the chance to learn to do pointer arithmetic in Roman Numerals. 6: Give big time geek bragging rights to particpants. If anyone here is an SCA type (I'm not) I would think this is a good way to earn a merit badge. I know there are a few folks in or around the TCLUG that would either make good "elmers" (a more expert person who's willing to help the less experienced learn, for those of you who have never hung around with ham radio types) or just be good company while firing a few of the surplus neurons we seem to have on the list. If anyone is interested, drop me a line, eh? It'd be great if we could get a quorum! Phil Mendelsohn -- Nunc hoc in marmore non est incisum. --'now this isn't engraved in stone' From m_nassar at yahoo.com Thu May 3 15:06:57 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! In-Reply-To: <200105031649.f43GnFk06544@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010503200657.75019.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com> do you have somekind of Utilities monitoring system? a friend of mine had one of those and it is basically a phone hookup to call the utility company of choice... if you have one of these does it have the filters? if you are unsure you may want to call the utils companies... -munir > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 08:55:38 -0500 (CDT) > From: mjn > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! > Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > On May 2, 2001 Chris Bidler said something like: > > > > Yea. Murphy's kicks in when you are downloading > a Linux image and the > > > phone rings and your DSL modem mysteriously > drops its connection. Every > > > time the phone rings... > > > > > > Anyone else having this problem? I sure am.. > > > > You *do* have the little filter-dongles on all > your phones, right? > > > > At first I was going to ignore all of the "you've > got filters on all the > phones, right?" emails but just so we're clear. > Yes, I do. > > ____________________________ > Mike Neuharth > ADCS Technology Specialist > http://www.umn.edu/adcs > > E-Mail : mjn@umn.edu > Page Mail : 6126486512@page.metrocall.com > http://supermonkeycollider.dyndns.org/ > ____________________________ > ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From trammell at trammell.dyndns.org Thu May 3 14:38:49 2001 From: trammell at trammell.dyndns.org (John Joseph Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FUD In-Reply-To: <20010419093252.52afbad8.blayer@integraonline.com>; from blayer@integraonline.com on Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 09:32:52AM -0500 References: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109841@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> <20010419085056.B3860@sorry.cs.umn.edu> <20010419093252.52afbad8.blayer@integraonline.com> Message-ID: <20010503143849.A16899@mn.rr.com> More FUD... http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010503/tc/microsoft_linux_dc_2.html From esper at sherohman.org Thu May 3 15:49:21 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! In-Reply-To: <3AF1AF49.CA9E2948@eetc.com>; from simeonuj@eetc.com on Thu, May 03, 2001 at 02:20:02PM -0500 References: <3AF133C6.20282.28EA3D@localhost> <3AF1AF49.CA9E2948@eetc.com> Message-ID: <20010503154921.I4333@sherohman.org> On Thu, May 03, 2001 at 02:20:02PM -0500, Simeon Johnston wrote: > I seem to remember reading somewhere ( maybe on this list - not sure ) that 900 > MHz phones caused a conflict with the DSL signal. Something about the > frequency being to close? It may be an even higher MHz phone that was the > problem but I'm not sure. Maybe that is a problem? Dunno about phones, but I've got some 900 MHz wireless speakers hooked up to my stereo and they've never caused any problems for my DSL. -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.1: GCS d? s+: a- C++ UL++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w---$ O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv b+ DI++++ D G e* h+ r y+ From austad at marketwatch.com Thu May 3 16:11:07 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] kernel 2.4 network performance probs Message-ID: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109900@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Version 2.4.3. I just tested 2.4.4, and I have the same problem. > 11 Mb/s is ok for 100 Mbit network, if you account for: > - network overhead > - kernel overhead > - disk overhead When I switch back to kernel 2.2, I can get around 80Mbit/sec to hosts on the same switch. I'm going to have to install too many boxes if I can only get 11Mbit/sec out of them. I have 5 boxes running kernel 2.2 that serve out around 100 million images a day combined. I'm not using 2.4 in production anymore because of random box crashes, and network performance issues. But, I'd like to be able to use it, especially for when Apache 2.0 is released. And all of the latest distros are shipping with it also. > -----Original Message----- > From: Florin Iucha [mailto:florin@iucha.net] > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 1:48 PM > To: 'tclug-list@mn-linux.org' > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] kernel 2.4 network performance probs > > > On Wed, 2 May 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > > > I have tried 3 different ethernet cards, a tulip, an > eepro100, and a 3c59x. > > I cannot get more than about 11Mb/sec out of them. At 11Mb/sec, > > 11 Mb/s is ok for 100 Mbit network, if you account for: > - network overhead > - kernel overhead > - disk overhead > > > /var/log/syslog fills with this: > > May 2 17:51:57 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/3419 c2 > l0 ss2/2 p0 > > May 2 17:52:00 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/2634 c2 > l0 ss2/2 p0 > > May 2 17:52:00 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/3228 c2 > l0 ss2/2 p0 > > May 2 17:52:06 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/4646 c2 > l0 ss2/2 p0 > > May 2 17:52:06 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/4647 c2 > l0 ss2/2 p0 > > May 2 17:52:09 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/4222 c2 > l0 ss2/2 p0 > > May 2 17:52:09 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/4524 c2 > l0 ss2/2 p0 > > May 2 17:52:14 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/4520 c2 > l0 ss2/2 p0 > > What version of 2.4? > > > 10.10.220.101 is the machine I'm testing from. The message > appears from any > > machine I'm testing on. All machines are plugged into the > same switch, and > > forced to 100/full. I have no problems with my 2.2 > kernels, only the 2.4 > > kernels. Does anyone have any ideas? > > > > florin > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From esper at sherohman.org Thu May 3 16:12:29 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FUD In-Reply-To: <20010503143849.A16899@mn.rr.com>; from trammell@trammell.dyndns.org on Thu, May 03, 2001 at 02:38:49PM -0500 References: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109841@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> <20010419085056.B3860@sorry.cs.umn.edu> <20010419093252.52afbad8.blayer@integraonline.com> <20010503143849.A16899@mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <20010503161229.J4333@sherohman.org> On Thu, May 03, 2001 at 02:38:49PM -0500, John Joseph Trammell wrote: > More FUD... > > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010503/tc/microsoft_linux_dc_2.html If you want to read Mundie's speech for yourself, it's at http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/craig/05-03sharedsource.asp and there is (of course) much discussion of it on Linux Today's site at http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-05-03-005-20-NW-CY-MS&tbovrmode=1#talkback_area and on slashdot at http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/05/03/1953253&mode=nested Very effective way to waste the rest of your afternoon... -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.1: GCS d? s+: a- C++ UL++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w---$ O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv b+ DI++++ D G e* h+ r y+ From super1680 at usa.net Thu May 3 13:38:01 2001 From: super1680 at usa.net (super1680@usa.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ¤â¾÷ºô¸ô§Ö³ø --- 5¤ë3¤é Message-ID: <37015.109740972217600.331451@localhost> ¡¸ ¡¹ 9¤ë1¤é°_¥þ­±¨ú½l ¡¹ ¡¸ ¨T¾÷¨®¾r¾p¤H©ó¦æ¾p¹D¸ô®É¡A¨Ï¥Î¤â«ù¦¡¦æ°Ê¹q¸Ü¶i¦æ¼·±µ©Î ³q¸ÜªÌ¡A¨T¨®³B·s»O¹ô¤T¤d¤¸»@Áì¡A¾÷¨®³B·s»O¹ô¤@¤d¤¸»@Áì ±zªº·R¨®¬O§_¦w¸Ë¤F¡A¨®¥Î§K«ùÅ¥µ©©O ? ³q¸Ü«~½è¬O§_¤£¨}©O? ¨º§A¤@©w­nª¾¹D ¡y ¥þ¥\¯à ¡z& ¥|¦X¤@¨®¥Î§K«ùÅ¥µ© ¥»²£«~¦æ¾P¦U°ê.¨ÃºaÀò¬ü°ê°ê®a±M§Q§½»{ÃÒ³\¥i. Åý§A¶R¤F¦w¤ß.¥Îªº¶}¤ß,ºô¸ô¯S»ù¤¤ ²£ «~ ² ¤¶ ¥@¬É±M§Q¡iAll-in-One¡j¤@Ê^¦¨«¬³]­p¡C ¦P®É¨ã³Æ¡i§K«ùÅ¥µ©¡j¡B¡i¤â¾÷®y¡j¡B¡i¨®¤W¥R¹q¡j¤T¤j¥\¯à¡C §¹¥þ¡i§K«ö¸Ë¡j¡B¡i§K±µ½u¡j¡A´¡¤JÂI·Ï¾¹§Y¥i¨Ï¥Î¡C §¹¥þ¤£·|¯}Ãa·R¨®¤º¸Ë³¯³]¡A¬üÆ[¤j¤è¡C ¾÷²Õ¤º«Ø³Á§J­·¤Î³â¥z¡A­µ¶q¤j¤p¦Û¥Ñ±±¨î¡C ¾r¾p³~¤¤¡A¨Ó¹q¦Û°Ê±µ¦¬¡A¾Þ§@²³æ¡A½T«O¦æ¨®¦w¥þ¡C ²£«~¸ê°Tºô¯¸ http://hkweb.to/super1680 ½u¤W­qÁÊ §Y¤é°_­qÁʨÃÃØ°e ¥~±µ¦¡³Á§J­· ¤@²Õ,¼Æ¶q¦³­­,°e§¹¬°¤î. PS:¦pªG±z¤£·Q¦A±µ¦¬¥»°T®§¡A½Ð¦^«H¦Ü¥H¤U«H½cE-mail«H½c :::superno2001@yahoo.com:::¦p¦³¥´ÂZ±z¤§³B¡A½Ð¦h¦h¥]²[¡AÁÂÁ¡I¡I From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Thu May 3 16:36:44 2001 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:31 2005 Subject: [johny@rich.com: [TCLUG] Make Money Quick] In-Reply-To: <013d01c0d3eb$62f8ed30$3028680a@tgt.com>; from veldy@veldy.net on Thu, May 03, 2001 at 11:09:09AM -0500 References: <20010503103320.A18361@real-time.com> <013d01c0d3eb$62f8ed30$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: <20010503163644.A9345@baker.space.umn.edu> On Thu, May 03, 2001 at 11:09:09AM -0500, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > Somebody probably wrote some software that handles subscribing to mailman in > an automated way. Perhaps a NO spam agreement should be acknowledged and an > agreement to pay said clean-up costs as part of subscribing to a list. It might also be useful to only allow message which are To: or CC: the list. Most of the recent spam doesn't seem to be either. Is there any valid reason to send a message to the list that isn't To: or CC: the list? -- Jim Crumley | crumley@fields.space.umn.edu | Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378 | From jethro at freakzilla.com Thu May 3 16:23:45 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Scriptor machinalis: call for participants In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, On Thu, 3 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > I want to write a Latin compiler. This will take programs written in > Latin and convert them into machine executable code. You might be interested in http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~damian/papers/HTML/Perligata.html in case you've never seen it before. From the website: This paper describes a Perl module -- Lingua::Romana::Perligata -- that makes it possible to write Perl programs in Latin. A plausible rationale for wanting to do such a thing is provided, along with a comprehensive overview of the syntax and semantics of Latinized Perl. The paper also explains the special source filtering and parsing techniques required to efficiently interpret a programming language in which the syntax is (largely) non-positional. -Yaron -- From simeonuj at eetc.com Thu May 3 16:56:57 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest -- wow! References: <3AF133C6.20282.28EA3D@localhost> <3AF1AF49.CA9E2948@eetc.com> <20010503154921.I4333@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <3AF1D3FE.4C5F8002@eetc.com> Dang. I think I deleted it. I don't know what it was about them. I think it may have been the 950MHz phone. I know it started with a 9. It's gone now. sim Dave Sherohman wrote: > On Thu, May 03, 2001 at 02:20:02PM -0500, Simeon Johnston wrote: > > I seem to remember reading somewhere ( maybe on this list - not sure ) that 900 > > MHz phones caused a conflict with the DSL signal. Something about the > > frequency being to close? It may be an even higher MHz phone that was the > > problem but I'm not sure. Maybe that is a problem? > > Dunno about phones, but I've got some 900 MHz wireless speakers hooked up to > my stereo and they've never caused any problems for my DSL. From jethro at freakzilla.com Thu May 3 16:58:02 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] =?X-UNKNOWN?Q?Re=3A_=5BTCLUG=5D_=A4=E2=BE=F7=BA=F4=B8=F4=A7=D6=B3=F8?= =?X-UNKNOWN?Q?_---_5=A4=EB3=A4=E9?= In-Reply-To: <37015.109740972217600.331451@localhost> Message-ID: Hi, On Fri, 4 May 2001 super1680@usa.net wrote: > ¡¸ ¡¹ 9¤ë1¤é°_¥þ­±¨ú½l ¡¹ ¡¸ I'm sorry to hear that. > ±zªº·R¨®¬O§_¦w¸Ë¤F¡A¨®¥Î§K«ùÅ¥µ©©O ? > ³q¸Ü«~½è¬O§_¤£¨}©O? ¨º§A¤@©w­nª¾¹D Yeah, NFS will do that sometimes. Make sure lockd is running. > ¡y ¥þ¥\¯à ¡z& ¥|¦X¤@¨®¥Î§K«ùÅ¥µ© apt-get _install_. > ²£ «~ ² ¤¶ > ¥@¬É±M§Q¡iAll-in-One¡j¤@Ê^¦¨«¬³]­p¡C Usually once a month, it's on the website at http://www.mn-linux.org/events. > ¦P®É¨ã³Æ¡i§K«ùÅ¥µ©¡j¡B¡i¤â¾÷®y¡j¡B¡i¨®¤W¥R¹q¡j¤T¤j¥\¯à¡C I don't think anyone would mind, just as long as you bring enough for everyone (: -Yaron -- From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu May 3 17:46:48 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] kernel 2.4 network performance probs In-Reply-To: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109900@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> References: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109900@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20010503174648.61839723.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> "Austad, Jay" wrote: > > Version 2.4.3. I just tested 2.4.4, and I have the same problem. > > > 11 Mb/s is ok for 100 Mbit network, if you account for: > > - network overhead > > - kernel overhead > > - disk overhead > > When I switch back to kernel 2.2, I can get around 80Mbit/sec to hosts > on the same switch. I'm going to have to install too many boxes if I > can only get 11Mbit/sec out of them. I have 5 boxes running kernel 2.2 > that serve out around 100 million images a day combined. I'm not using > 2.4 in production anymore because of random box crashes, and network > performance issues. But, I'd like to be able to use it, especially for > when Apache 2.0 is released. And all of the latest distros are shipping > with it also. > > > /var/log/syslog fills with this: > > > May 2 17:51:57 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/3419 c2 > > l0 ss2/2 p0 > > > May 2 17:52:00 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/2634 c2 > > l0 ss2/2 p0 > > > May 2 17:52:00 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/3228 c2 > > l0 ss2/2 p0 > > > May 2 17:52:06 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/4646 c2 > > l0 ss2/2 p0 > > > May 2 17:52:06 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/4647 c2 > > l0 ss2/2 p0 > > > May 2 17:52:09 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/4222 c2 > > l0 ss2/2 p0 > > > May 2 17:52:09 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/4524 c2 > > l0 ss2/2 p0 > > > May 2 17:52:14 i5 kernel: Undo loss 10.10.220.101/4520 c2 > > l0 ss2/2 p0 I'm no kernel hacker, but from the looks of what I've found over at lxr.linux.no, the kernel seems to be trying to retransmit data, then discovering that it doesn't have to. That's what the `undo' is all about -- it's trying to stop the retransmission (or something along those lines..) Relevant stuff: http://lxr.linux.no/source/net/ipv4/tcp_input.c#L1290 http://lxr.linux.no/source/net/ipv4/tcp_input.c#L1326 You can probably also see the numbers moving around in /proc/net/netstat It might be a good idea to try increasing the time before a retransmit occurs by playing with the files in /proc/sys/net/ipv4 -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ "There is no spoon" -- / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ The Matrix \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From chrome at real-time.com Thu May 3 18:36:48 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] personal preferences: joysticks In-Reply-To: ; from jeffr@odeon.net on Tue, May 01, 2001 at 09:21:40AM -0500 References: <20010428151423.C31999@ares> Message-ID: <20010503183648.I28416@real-time.com> > Actually, I find that a joystick+mouse combo works better than the > keyboard+mouse method. Use the joystick for movement, weapon selection, > jump, crouch, etc, and use the mouse to aim and shoot. so joystick in the right hand, mouse in the left, or vice-versa? Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Thu May 3 18:56:25 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: =?unknown-8bit?Q?=5BTCLUG?= =?unknown-8bit?B?XSCk4r73uvS49KfWs/ggLS0tIDWk6zOk6Q==?= In-Reply-To: ; from jethro@freakzilla.com on Thu, May 03, 2001 at 04:58:02PM -0500 References: <37015.109740972217600.331451@localhost> Message-ID: <20010503185625.Z7366@ringworld.org> * Yaron [010503 17:55]: > > ±zªº·R¨®¬O§_¦w¸Ë¤F¡A¨®¥Î§K«ùÅ¥µ©©O ? > > ³q¸Ü«~½è¬O§_¤£¨}©O? ¨º§A¤@©w­nª¾¹D > > Yeah, NFS will do that sometimes. Make sure lockd is running. (Funny, +1) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010503/51a195cc/attachment.pgp From stauffer_james at yahoo.com Thu May 3 18:57:44 2001 From: stauffer_james at yahoo.com (James A. N. Stauffer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 486 slow Message-ID: <20010503235744.85839.qmail@web11501.mail.yahoo.com> I don't expect a 486 to be blazingly fast, but mine seems slower than it needs to be. I have 486DX2/66 with 64MB RAM and 1.2GB HD. I have RedHat 7.0 installed. It takes 9 seconds to login. I don't have X installed and I don't think that I am running processes that I don't need. Suggestions? ===== = o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ _____=======_||___ o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | | Stauffer_James | .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | | @yahoo.com | >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|________________| _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o¬o¬o o¬o¬o` 'o¬o o¬o` __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From veldy at veldy.net Thu May 3 19:07:55 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 486 slow References: <20010503235744.85839.qmail@web11501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <009d01c0d42e$450f5230$0101a8c0@cascade> Probably a name lookup problem that is stalling during authentication via PAM. Try adding host entries to /etc/hosts Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "James A. N. Stauffer" To: "Twin Cities Linux Users Group" Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 6:57 PM Subject: [TCLUG] 486 slow > I don't expect a 486 to be blazingly fast, but mine seems slower than it > needs to be. I have 486DX2/66 with 64MB RAM and 1.2GB HD. I have RedHat > 7.0 installed. It takes 9 seconds to login. I don't have X installed and > I don't think that I am running processes that I don't need. Suggestions? > > ===== > = o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ _____=======_||___ > o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | | Stauffer_James | > .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | | @yahoo.com | > >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|________________| > _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o?o?o o?o?o` 'o?o o?o` > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From stauffer_james at yahoo.com Thu May 3 19:51:57 2001 From: stauffer_james at yahoo.com (James A. N. Stauffer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 486 slow In-Reply-To: <009d01c0d42e$450f5230$0101a8c0@cascade> Message-ID: <20010504005157.93101.qmail@web11501.mail.yahoo.com> What is PAM? Why would hosts matter? My machine doesn't interact much with other machines (no YP). How do I know what to add? --- "Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote: > Probably a name lookup problem that is stalling during authentication via > PAM. > > Try adding host entries to /etc/hosts > > Tom Veldhouse > veldy@veldy.net > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James A. N. Stauffer" > To: "Twin Cities Linux Users Group" > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 6:57 PM > Subject: [TCLUG] 486 slow > > > > I don't expect a 486 to be blazingly fast, but mine seems slower than > it > > needs to be. I have 486DX2/66 with 64MB RAM and 1.2GB HD. I have > RedHat > > 7.0 installed. It takes 9 seconds to login. I don't have X installed > and > > I don't think that I am running processes that I don't need. > Suggestions? > > > > ===== > > = o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ _____=======_||___ > > o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | | Stauffer_James | > > .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | | @yahoo.com | > > >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|________________| > > _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o¬o¬o o¬o¬o` 'o¬o o¬o` > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ===== = o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ _____=======_||___ o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | | Stauffer_James | .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | | @yahoo.com | >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|________________| _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o¬o¬o o¬o¬o` 'o¬o o¬o` __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From stauffer_james at yahoo.com Thu May 3 20:09:48 2001 From: stauffer_james at yahoo.com (James A. N. Stauffer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kernal compile options Message-ID: <20010504010948.73193.qmail@web11502.mail.yahoo.com> What is I2O? ===== = o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ _____=======_||___ o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | | Stauffer_James | .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | | @yahoo.com | >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|________________| _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o¬o¬o o¬o¬o` 'o¬o o¬o` __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From veldy at veldy.net Thu May 3 20:12:13 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 486 slow References: <20010504005157.93101.qmail@web11501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001c01c0d437$40b509b0$0101a8c0@cascade> It is looking up its own name -- if I am correct. Just try it. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "James A. N. Stauffer" To: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 7:51 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] 486 slow > What is PAM? Why would hosts matter? My machine doesn't interact much > with other machines (no YP). How do I know what to add? > --- "Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote: > > Probably a name lookup problem that is stalling during authentication via > > PAM. > > > > Try adding host entries to /etc/hosts > > > > Tom Veldhouse > > veldy@veldy.net > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "James A. N. Stauffer" > > To: "Twin Cities Linux Users Group" > > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 6:57 PM > > Subject: [TCLUG] 486 slow > > > > > > > I don't expect a 486 to be blazingly fast, but mine seems slower than > > it > > > needs to be. I have 486DX2/66 with 64MB RAM and 1.2GB HD. I have > > RedHat > > > 7.0 installed. It takes 9 seconds to login. I don't have X installed > > and > > > I don't think that I am running processes that I don't need. > > Suggestions? > > > > > > ===== > > > = o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ _____=======_||___ > > > o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | | Stauffer_James | > > > .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | | @yahoo.com | > > > >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|________________| > > > _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o?o?o o?o?o` 'o?o o?o` > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > ===== > = o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ _____=======_||___ > o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | | Stauffer_James | > .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | | @yahoo.com | > >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|________________| > _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o?o?o o?o?o` 'o?o o?o` > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From veldy at veldy.net Thu May 3 20:14:39 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 486 slow References: <20010504005157.93101.qmail@web11501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002101c0d437$97aa15d0$0101a8c0@cascade> > What is PAM? Why would hosts matter? My machine doesn't interact much > with other machines (no YP). How do I know what to add? Did you give it an IP? 127.0.0.1 localhost.your.domain localhost ww.xx.yy.zz hostname.your.domain hostname ww.xx.yy.zz hostname.your.domain. Pay careful attention to the periods. ww.xx.yy.zz is your IP address -- the rest should be obvious. Might not be your problem, but this should probably be configured this way in any event. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net > --- "Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote: > > Probably a name lookup problem that is stalling during authentication via > > PAM. > > > > Try adding host entries to /etc/hosts > > > > Tom Veldhouse > > veldy@veldy.net > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "James A. N. Stauffer" > > To: "Twin Cities Linux Users Group" > > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 6:57 PM > > Subject: [TCLUG] 486 slow > > > > > > > I don't expect a 486 to be blazingly fast, but mine seems slower than > > it > > > needs to be. I have 486DX2/66 with 64MB RAM and 1.2GB HD. I have > > RedHat > > > 7.0 installed. It takes 9 seconds to login. I don't have X installed > > and > > > I don't think that I am running processes that I don't need. > > Suggestions? > > > > > > ===== > > > = o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ _____=======_||___ > > > o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | | Stauffer_James | > > > .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | | @yahoo.com | > > > >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|________________| > > > _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o?o?o o?o?o` 'o?o o?o` > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > ===== > = o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ _____=======_||___ > o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | | Stauffer_James | > .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | | @yahoo.com | > >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|________________| > _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o?o?o o?o?o` 'o?o o?o` > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From stauffer_james at yahoo.com Thu May 3 20:31:58 2001 From: stauffer_james at yahoo.com (James A. N. Stauffer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 486 slow In-Reply-To: <002101c0d437$97aa15d0$0101a8c0@cascade> Message-ID: <20010504013158.98464.qmail@web11501.mail.yahoo.com> My IP is 192.168.123.52 127.0.0.1 vpn localhost.localdomain localhost # Should I remove the .localdomain name? 192.168.123.50 dev 192.168.123.54 seth --- "Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote: > > > What is PAM? Why would hosts matter? My machine doesn't interact much > > with other machines (no YP). How do I know what to add? > > Did you give it an IP? > > 127.0.0.1 localhost.your.domain localhost > ww.xx.yy.zz hostname.your.domain hostname > ww.xx.yy.zz hostname.your.domain. > > Pay careful attention to the periods. ww.xx.yy.zz is your IP address -- > the > rest should be obvious. > > Might not be your problem, but this should probably be configured this > way > in any event. > > Tom Veldhouse > veldy@veldy.net > > > --- "Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote: > > > Probably a name lookup problem that is stalling during authentication > via > > > PAM. > > > > > > Try adding host entries to /etc/hosts > > > > > > Tom Veldhouse > > > veldy@veldy.net > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "James A. N. Stauffer" > > > To: "Twin Cities Linux Users Group" > > > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 6:57 PM > > > Subject: [TCLUG] 486 slow > > > > > > > > > > I don't expect a 486 to be blazingly fast, but mine seems slower > than > > > it > > > > needs to be. I have 486DX2/66 with 64MB RAM and 1.2GB HD. I have > > > RedHat > > > > 7.0 installed. It takes 9 seconds to login. I don't have X > installed > > > and > > > > I don't think that I am running processes that I don't need. > > > Suggestions? > > > > > > > > ===== > > > > = o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ > _____=======_||___ > > > > o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | | > Stauffer_James > | > > > > .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | | @yahoo.com > | > > > > > >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|________________| > > > > _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o¬o¬o o¬o¬o` 'o¬o > o¬o` > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > > > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > ===== > > = o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ _____=======_||___ > > o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | | Stauffer_James | > > .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | | @yahoo.com | > > >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|________________| > > _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o¬o¬o o¬o¬o` 'o¬o o¬o` > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ===== = o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ _____=======_||___ o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | | Stauffer_James | .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | | @yahoo.com | >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|________________| _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o¬o¬o o¬o¬o` 'o¬o o¬o` __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Thu May 3 21:06:13 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Scriptor machinalis: call for participants In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 3 May 2001, Yaron wrote: > Hi, > > On Thu, 3 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > > I want to write a Latin compiler. This will take programs written in > > Latin and convert them into machine executable code. > > You might be interested in > http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~damian/papers/HTML/Perligata.html Thanks -- it is interesting. It's really interesting on a lot higher level than I am thinking about -- parsing inflected vs positional notation. At least at first, my aim is to learn to translate to the processors' language. (OK, so I thought the flashing lights and row of switched on the pdp-8 for manual booting were cooler than a boot-ROM.) But we're going to have to write a language, so it gives a few (pretty well developed) ideas! Phil -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From florin at iucha.net Thu May 3 22:22:31 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kernal compile options In-Reply-To: <20010504010948.73193.qmail@web11502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 May 2001, James A. N. Stauffer wrote: > What is I2O? > A 2nd generation IO. AFAIK is a new kind of bus for servers. If you don't know what it is probably you don't have it :) florin From florin at iucha.net Thu May 3 22:26:03 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] kernel 2.4 network performance probs In-Reply-To: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109900@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 May 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > Version 2.4.3. I just tested 2.4.4, and I have the same problem. > > > 11 Mb/s is ok for 100 Mbit network, if you account for: > > - network overhead > > - kernel overhead > > - disk overhead > > When I switch back to kernel 2.2, I can get around 80Mbit/sec to hosts on > the same switch. I'm going to have to install too many boxes if I can only > get 11Mbit/sec out of them. I have 5 boxes running kernel 2.2 that serve > out around 100 million images a day combined. I'm not using 2.4 in > production anymore because of random box crashes, and network performance > issues. But, I'd like to be able to use it, especially for when Apache 2.0 > is released. And all of the latest distros are shipping with it also. I was thinking 11 Mb as in 11 Mbytes vs 11 Mbit as in 11 M bits... oh... the right way is MB vs Mb... sorry for the confusion florin PS: In a press conference today Scott McNeally declared: "Hmmm... The network is the network, the computer is the computer; sorry for the confusion". From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri May 4 07:54:56 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dvorak: _XKB_RULES_NAMES In-Reply-To: <3AE49F67.25EE9DE0@securecomputing.com> Message-ID: I'm trying to monkey with the Dvorak stuff, but when I try and load the new key map, I get "Couldn't interpret _XKB_RULES_NAMES" as an error, it seems to be from setxkbmap. I'm on the trail but thought I'd see if anyone knew right off the top of their head where that came from and what it's looking for? Ta, Phil -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From jeffr at odeon.net Fri May 4 08:25:21 2001 From: jeffr at odeon.net (jeffr@odeon.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] personal preferences: joysticks In-Reply-To: <20010503183648.I28416@real-time.com> Message-ID: Vice-versa, joystick in the left hand (which can make finding a comfortable joystick difficult), and mouse in the right. Jeff On Thu, 3 May 2001, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > > Actually, I find that a joystick+mouse combo works better than the > > keyboard+mouse method. Use the joystick for movement, weapon selection, > > jump, crouch, etc, and use the mouse to aim and shoot. > > so joystick in the right hand, mouse in the left, or vice-versa? > > Carl Soderstrom > From zibby at ringworld.org Fri May 4 09:21:08 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] personal preferences: joysticks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: dieman has a Saitek Cyborg 3D Gold joystick. The neat thing about it is that it comes with a tool (or mutiple tools?) that let you take it apart and adjust it for left or right handed (grips, throttle, etc. can be taken off and reattached.) You can adjust the tilt for the top thumb buttons, etc. very nice stick overall. If I find myself in need of a joystick, this one is at the top of the list. http://www.saitekusa.com/product/joy.htm Looks like the Cyborg 2000 has the same feature. Good left handed joysticks are hard to find, kudos to the designers of this one. Even supported in Linux as a USB Human Input Device. | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From maniac at vegas.com.au Fri May 4 09:52:10 2001 From: maniac at vegas.com.au (George Bilios) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PARTITIONING Message-ID: 2nd of May, 2001 Tp tclug-list@listserv.real-time.com, I am attempting to partition my system so I can install Linux! Mandrake with Partition Magic 4.0. I don't know how to go about this. I'm new at this, as you know one mistake can whipe the entire system. From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri May 4 10:02:14 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PARTITIONING In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 5 May 2001, George Bilios wrote: > I am attempting to partition my system so I can install Linux! Mandrake with > Partition Magic 4.0. I don't know how to go about this. I'm new at this, > as you know one mistake can whipe the entire system. Is your trouble that partition magic is cryptic, or that you aren't sure how to assign partitions? I don't know what you've got on it right now, but maybe wiping the system isn't as bad as it sounds. (Make a backup first!) Phil M -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From scottdagastino at yahoo.com Fri May 4 10:02:41 2001 From: scottdagastino at yahoo.com (Scott Dagastino) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xserver display Message-ID: <20010504150241.47335.qmail@web9601.mail.yahoo.com> I have 2 linux machines with both have xserver running on them. Is there a way to get the display of one gui application to appear on the other box.? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From dutchman at uswest.net Fri May 4 10:16:22 2001 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GNOME Application Minimization Message-ID: <3AF2C7C6.A7EE4CA4@uswest.net> Greet the sun all: Has anybody had problems with application minimization under GNOME 1.4? If I minimize an application, it does not go to the toolbar. The application does not shutdown, I can see it if I do a ps. I checked the configuration panel for minimization and everthing looks fine. I looked in the ximian support mailing list but there was nothing on this problem there. Perry Hoekstra From zibby at ringworld.org Fri May 4 10:48:33 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xserver display In-Reply-To: <20010504150241.47335.qmail@web9601.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > Is there a way to get the display of one gui > application to appear on the other box.? Yup. Mutiple ways actually. The first method you can use is to set the DISPLAY enviorment variable on the computer you are running applications from. export DISPLAY=address:display (export DISPLAY=192.168.1.10:0) then when you run the program it will display on display 0 of 192.168.1.10, provided xhosts allows access. (man xhosts) You can avoid xhosts and setting DISPLAY enviorment variables all together by using ssh. Simply ssh -CX user@host. This should enable automatic Xforwarding over an encrypted ssh tunnel. Secure and easy. The -C adds compression, also useful. Lastly you could enable XDMCP. XDMCP allows you to query the display manager and get a gui logon, just like you were sitting at the server. Start your Xserver with the -query host option to get the logon screen. If you're allready logged in, you could use Xnest to get a desktop in your desktop, just Xnest -query host. (Good for testing too.) Overall, the ssh method is easiest. I belive adding X11Forwarding yes in /etc/ssh/sshd_config will automatically turn on the redirection when an ssh client connects, so you don't have to give your ssh client the -X paramater. Hope that is somewhat helpful.. | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From simeonuj at eetc.com Fri May 4 10:27:06 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dvorak and RH 7.1 Message-ID: <3AF2CA3A.4E580819@eetc.com> I just tried to use the Dvorak keymap but was wondering if there was a way to use the keymap only on a single xterminal? I don't want to have to use it throughout my entire system and don't want to reboot for kbdconfig to reload it. I just want a single xterm window to test it out. Any suggestions? BTW, It comes with RH 7.1 but there are 3 seperate layouts and I don't know the difference between them. They are dvorak dvorak-l dvorak-r What is the difference between these? sim From lxy at cloudnet.com Fri May 4 12:22:59 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xserver display Message-ID: <3af2e573.1d0b.269167349@cloudnet.com> > You can avoid xhosts and setting DISPLAY enviorment > variables all together > by using ssh. I've heard of this being done, but never done it. Could this be used as a thin client solution? Or is it limited to 1 Xterm? -Brian From austad at marketwatch.com Fri May 4 12:59:37 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dvorak and RH 7.1 Message-ID: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109907@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> dvorak-l and dvorak-r are for one handed typing. If you do a search, I'm sure you can find the layout somewhere. You probably don't want to use those though. Just regular dvorak. You can also just make a button on your kde or gnome bar which excutes the setxkbmap for you and changes the layout. Then you can switch easily. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Simeon Johnston [mailto:simeonuj@eetc.com] > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 10:27 AM > To: TCLUG > Subject: [TCLUG] Dvorak and RH 7.1 > > > I just tried to use the Dvorak keymap but was wondering if there was a > way to use the keymap only on a single xterminal? I don't > want to have > to use it throughout my entire system and don't want to reboot for > kbdconfig to reload it. I just want a single xterm window to test it > out. > Any suggestions? > > BTW, It comes with RH 7.1 but there are 3 seperate layouts and I don't > know the difference between them. They are > > dvorak > dvorak-l > dvorak-r > > What is the difference between these? > > sim > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From gregory.siems at pca.state.mn.us Fri May 4 12:32:02 2001 From: gregory.siems at pca.state.mn.us (Siems, Gregory) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dvorak and RH 7.1 Message-ID: dvorak - standard, dvorak - left, dvorak - right. Left and right are different key layouts and I'm not sure why the difference. I was looking on the net this morning and saw some picts but didn't read the bit about why they were different. BTB, thanks to y'all talking about Dvorak I just had to try it... this may take a little getting used to.... but I think I'm going to like it... course my co-workers just look at me funny (and look at my keyboard even funnier). :-) > ---------- > From: Simeon Johnston[SMTP:simeonuj@eetc.com] > Reply To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 10:27 AM > To: TCLUG > Subject: [TCLUG] Dvorak and RH 7.1 > > I just tried to use the Dvorak keymap but was wondering if there was a > way to use the keymap only on a single xterminal? I don't want to have > to use it throughout my entire system and don't want to reboot for > kbdconfig to reload it. I just want a single xterm window to test it > out. > Any suggestions? > > BTW, It comes with RH 7.1 but there are 3 seperate layouts and I don't > know the difference between them. They are > > dvorak > dvorak-l > dvorak-r > > What is the difference between these? > > sim > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jethro at freakzilla.com Fri May 4 10:28:20 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (jethro@freakzilla.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xserver display In-Reply-To: <20010504150241.47335.qmail@web9601.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010504150241.47335.qmail@web9601.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <988990100.3af2ca94168b1@dragon> Hi, Quoting Scott Dagastino : > Is there a way to get the display of one gui > application to appear on the other box.? Most XWindows applications will respond to a commandline option that'll tell them which display to go to. So if you want xterm to display on Machine1, you'd go: xterm -display Machine1:0.0 (the 0.0 number should change if you've got more than 1 X running on that machine). You can make this permanent by setting the environment variable "DISPLAY". In sh/bash: DISPLAY="Machine1:0.0"; export DISPLAY In csh/tcsh: setenv DISPLAY "Machine1:0.0" If you set this in an xterm, all programs you run from THAT TERMINAL will try to display on Machine1. You might need to use the xhost command on Machine1 to allow Machine2 to display on it. To do this, run: xhost Machine2 on machine1. HTH, -Yaron -- From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri May 4 10:30:03 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xserver display In-Reply-To: <20010504150241.47335.qmail@web9601.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 May 2001, Scott Dagastino wrote: > I have 2 linux machines with both have xserver running > on them. > > Is there a way to get the display of one gui > application to appear on the other box.? Yes. The easiest (and prolly best) is to ssh over to the one machine. No thinking required -- just type the name of the app you want to run, and it should work. If not, check for the -X cmd line option. There are others -- you don't want the whole VNC thing where you see the whole desktop on the other machine do you? -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Fri May 4 11:03:23 2001 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xserver display In-Reply-To: <20010504150241.47335.qmail@web9601.mail.yahoo.com>; from scottdagastino@yahoo.com on Fri, May 04, 2001 at 08:02:41AM -0700 References: <20010504150241.47335.qmail@web9601.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010504110322.A23043@baker.space.umn.edu> On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 08:02:41AM -0700, Scott Dagastino wrote: > I have 2 linux machines with both have xserver running > on them. > > Is there a way to get the display of one gui > application to appear on the other box.? Yes, there a variety of ways of doing it. The easiest way is to install ssh on both machines. Then use ssh in your favorite terminal program (xterm, rxvt, eterm, ...) to connect from the machine you want to display on to the one you want to run the X program on. Then type the name of the program want to run. You can also use telnet or rsh to connect between the machines, but then you'll have have to set the DISPLAY environment variable and use xhost +hostname to allow the display of the program. -- Jim Crumley | crumley@fields.space.umn.edu | Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378 | From scott.w.fischer at att.net Fri May 4 11:03:18 2001 From: scott.w.fischer at att.net (scott.w.fischer@att.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xserver display Message-ID: <20010504160319.ILUZ5368.mtiwmhc27.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> On the box you want the application to appear on: xhost +otherboxname On the box the application runs on: set DISPLAY environment variable (eg: export DISPLAY=displaybox:0) then run application. -swf > I have 2 linux machines with both have xserver running > on them. > > Is there a way to get the display of one gui > application to appear on the other box.? From austad at marketwatch.com Fri May 4 11:05:20 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kernal compile options Message-ID: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109904@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> You need to enable I2O if you have a TV card or a video capture card. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Florin Iucha [mailto:florin@iucha.net] > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 10:23 PM > To: Twin Cities Linux Users Group > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Kernal compile options > > > On Thu, 3 May 2001, James A. N. Stauffer wrote: > > > What is I2O? > > > > A 2nd generation IO. > > AFAIK is a new kind of bus for servers. > > If you don't know what it is probably you don't have it :) > > florin > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From austad at marketwatch.com Fri May 4 11:08:55 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xserver display Message-ID: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109905@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> On the box you want to display on: xhost + or if you're on your own private network and no one else can connect to your machine, just: xhost + On the box running the actual app: export DISPLAY=:0.0 netscape & (or whatever app) > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Dagastino [mailto:scottdagastino@yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 10:03 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] xserver display > > > I have 2 linux machines with both have xserver running > on them. > > Is there a way to get the display of one gui > application to appear on the other box.? > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From zibby at ringworld.org Fri May 4 11:12:06 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PARTITIONING In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ahh the art of partitioning. Partition Magic is very good at resizing. If you want to keep windows around, shrink the partition but keep the windows partition as the first partition on the drive. From there you can create up to 3 more primary partitions (for a total of 4 on one hard disk) or create one extended partition with mutiple drives. Partition Magic will most likey default to an extended partition, this is fine, and the most common. Now the question is how to devide up that space. (and how much do you need.) Everything below includes a swap partition. Don't forget the swap partition. 2xRAM is a general rule of thumb for your swap partition. How you partition is a matter of preference and need. I suggest at least having a seperate / and /home. Here are my space guidelines for common mountpoints: / - 150mb |- /boot - 10mb, generally only needed in special cases. |- /home - Give your self plenty of room for mp3, download, etc. |- /usr - 2gb minimum, more is better. |- /usr/local - Depends on what you'll be installing here. |- /var - 500mb minimum. More and more GNOME stuff is using var. |- /tmp _ 250mb-500mb. Some applications like filling /tmp (VMWare) |- /opt - Depends on what you'll be installing here. Partitioning a UNIX system is need and personal preference based, so come up with your own rules based on what you'll be doing and the space suggestions above. | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From zibby at ringworld.org Fri May 4 11:15:54 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GNOME Application Minimization In-Reply-To: <3AF2C7C6.A7EE4CA4@uswest.net> Message-ID: You mean it dissappears? Bring up the properties of your tasklist. Uncheck enable task grouping. Everything reappear? :) Those GNOME people don't have and Mac converts working for them, no sir... If you enable task grouping create a menu panel (if you don't allready have one) and click on the icon in the upper left to see all your tasks, or click the downward arrow in your pager. If you don't have the tasklist of pager on your panel, well, add them. :) | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From james at unixpad.com Fri May 4 11:33:29 2001 From: james at unixpad.com (james@unixpad.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Proliant 1600 parts/server Message-ID: <200105041233469.SM00117@mail.TheMail.com> Help! Compaq lost my warranty replacement order. I am looking for the processor cage (or even a used machine with one). Anybody who might have any leads please e-mail me off list at jspinti@dartdist.com. I have already tried Dexis, etc. Thanks, James Happy Unixing with Unixpad.com! From florin at iucha.net Fri May 4 11:56:28 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xserver display In-Reply-To: <20010504150241.47335.qmail@web9601.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 May 2001, Scott Dagastino wrote: > I have 2 linux machines with both have xserver running > on them. > > Is there a way to get the display of one gui > application to appear on the other box.? > If you are on the home network and you have a firewall you need not use ssh as it slows down the things. X is bandwith intensive if you use Gnome/KDE or other fancy stuff. If you have a reasonably new linux distro you might need to export the xauth from the computer you want to display on and import it on the computer you want to run the program on. man xauth for more info. Then you can export DISPLAY="my_other_machine:0" and ran your app. florin From esper at sherohman.org Fri May 4 13:16:35 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xserver display In-Reply-To: <3af2e573.1d0b.269167349@cloudnet.com>; from lxy@cloudnet.com on Fri, May 04, 2001 at 05:22:59PM +0000 References: <3af2e573.1d0b.269167349@cloudnet.com> Message-ID: <20010504131635.M14523@sherohman.org> On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 05:22:59PM +0000, Brian wrote: > > You can avoid xhosts and setting DISPLAY enviorment > > variables all together > > by using ssh. > > I've heard of this being done, but never done it. Could > this > be used as a thin client solution? Or is it limited to 1 > Xterm? You can use that one xterm to start as many GUI apps as you like, just so long as you run them as background apps from the shell's point of view (e.g., use 'xmms &' instead of just 'xmms'). -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.1: GCS d? s+: a- C++ UL++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w---$ O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv b+ DI++++ D G e* h+ r y+ From Nick.T.Reinking at supervalu.com Fri May 4 13:17:30 2001 From: Nick.T.Reinking at supervalu.com (Nick.T.Reinking@supervalu.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dvorak and RH 7.1 Message-ID: <0GCT002AOPIG0A@mail1.supervalu.com> I don't know of any way to do the "one window" thing, sorry. The difference between the three: dvorak: Normal 2 handed dvorak layout. dvorak-l: For people missing their right hand. dvorak-r: For people missing their left hand. Just use the xmodmaps I sent earlier. You can toggle back and forth in X really easily with them. - Nick Reinking simeonuj@eetc.com, on 05/04/2001 10:27:06 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org @ PMDF cc: Subject: [TCLUG] Dvorak and RH 7.1 I just tried to use the Dvorak keymap but was wondering if there was a way to use the keymap only on a single xterminal? I don't want to have to use it throughout my entire system and don't want to reboot for kbdconfig to reload it. I just want a single xterm window to test it out. Any suggestions? BTW, It comes with RH 7.1 but there are 3 seperate layouts and I don't know the difference between them. They are dvorak dvorak-l dvorak-r What is the difference between these? sim _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Fri May 4 14:26:43 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] list server speed Message-ID: Is it just me or this server is slooooooow? I've sent a message to the list at 11:56 and now (2.27) the message is still not in the list? Are there any problems? florin From zibby at ringworld.org Fri May 4 14:27:48 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kerberos 5, Linux, and Windows 2000 Message-ID: Be afraid, be very afraid... http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/library/planning/security/kerbsteps.asp works as advertised, my Linux workstation is authing agnist the Windows 2000 PDC via Kerberos. All I did was apt-get install krb5-user libkrb53 libpam-krb5 and configure things. I hope it works as nicely to do auth Windows 2000 Pro agnist a UNIX Kerberos realm... | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From administrator at ltiflex.com Fri May 4 14:36:21 2001 From: administrator at ltiflex.com (Andy Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xserver display References: <3af2e573.1d0b.269167349@cloudnet.com> Message-ID: <3AF304B5.E73DADBD@ltiflex.com> > I've heard of this being done, but never done it. Could > this be used as a thin client solution? Or is it limited to 1 > Xterm? Read up on XDMCP for a thin client soultion. See also www.lstp.org -- Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH) 763-428-9119 (EX) 132 21801 Industrial Blvd | (FX) 763-428-9126 Rogers, MN 55374 | (PCS) 612-306-6055 From dcsherman at qwest.net Fri May 4 17:17:30 2001 From: dcsherman at qwest.net (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FUD In-Reply-To: <20010503143849.A16899@mn.rr.com> References: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109841@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> <20010419093252.52afbad8.blayer@integraonline.com> <20010503143849.A16899@mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <01050417173000.01672@dedannshae.thuria.org> Woohoo!! "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they *fight* you, then you win." - Ghandi (emphasis mine) Dave On Thursday 03 May 2001 14:38, thus spake John Joseph Trammell: > More FUD... > > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010503/tc/microsoft_linux_dc_2.html > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at real-time.com Fri May 4 17:31:10 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] XML -> SQL? Message-ID: <20010504173110.P2523@real-time.com> I thought there was an apache project doing some sort of cool thing to convert XML to SQL, I thought the name was Castor, but I cannot find it on the Apache site. I do find Castor from some other people. So, what other tools are there for converting XML to SQL? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010504/88f1ea98/attachment.pgp From sraun at fireopal.org Fri May 4 17:52:16 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kerberos 5, Linux, and Windows 2000 In-Reply-To: ; from zibby@ringworld.org on Fri, May 04, 2001 at 02:27:48PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010504175216.A23089@iaxs.net> On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 02:27:48PM -0500, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > Be afraid, be very afraid... > http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/library/planning/security/kerbsteps.asp > works as advertised, my Linux workstation is authing agnist the Windows > 2000 PDC via Kerberos. > > All I did was apt-get install krb5-user libkrb53 libpam-krb5 and configure > things. > > I hope it works as nicely to do auth Windows 2000 Pro agnist a UNIX > Kerberos realm... I don't think so... http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q276/3/04.ASP " Error Message: Your Password Must Be at Least 18770 Characters and Cannot Repeat Any of Your Previous 30689 Passwords" It looks like an "MIT realm" is their term for Kerberos authentication. -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From simeonuj at eetc.com Fri May 4 15:34:33 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dvorak and RH 7.1 References: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109907@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <3AF31227.129047D5@eetc.com> "Austad, Jay" wrote: > dvorak-l and dvorak-r are for one handed typing. If you do a search, I'm > sure you can find the layout somewhere. You probably don't want to use > those though. Just regular dvorak. You can also just make a button on your > kde or gnome bar which excutes the setxkbmap for you and changes the layout. > Then you can switch easily. > > Jay Next question. How do I change to the dvorak.xmodmap that was previously posted without having xwindows? Can I specify which tty uses what keymap? What command is used to change the keymap? I was going to try kbdconfig but that only uses presets. I don't know how it works or how to change the keymap file it uses. The man page wasn't very helpful. I would really like to use this on a single tty/console and use qwerty on the others so I can still do work while learning. : ) sim From chrome at real-time.com Fri May 4 16:52:33 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] when things go really wrong.... Message-ID: <20010504165233.B8010@real-time.com> Just a reminder of how far UNIX can get you, with a bit of creativity and presence of mind: http://www.ee.ryerson.ca:8080/~elf/hack/recovery.html Carl. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From spudling at acm.cs.umn.edu Fri May 4 17:47:19 2001 From: spudling at acm.cs.umn.edu (Hans Davin Umhoefer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] CD ripping problem solved Message-ID: <20010504174719.A3052@acm.cs.umn.edu> I my new CD burner and discovered that it is fully capable of ripping the tracks that my other drive horked on. I guess my old 16x is just dying on me. Oh, well. Thanks for your input. Hans -- Hans D Umhoefer (hans.d.umhoefer@uwrf.edu) From jwanderson at uswest.net Fri May 4 19:22:18 2001 From: jwanderson at uswest.net (Jay W. Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] XML -> SQL? In-Reply-To: <20010504173110.P2523@real-time.com> Message-ID: <200105050022.f450MJk20845@sprite.real-time.com> Any of these help? http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/gump/latest/castor.html http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/sql.html http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/cocoon2.html http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/esql.html http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/dynamic.html On 4 May 01, at 17:31, Bob Tanner wrote: > I thought there was an apache project doing some sort of cool thing to convert > XML to SQL, I thought the name was Castor, but I cannot find it on the Apache > site. > > I do find Castor from some other people. > > So, what other tools are there for converting XML to SQL? > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 > > From florin at iucha.net Fri May 4 19:33:06 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] XML -> SQL? In-Reply-To: <20010504173110.P2523@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 May 2001, Bob Tanner wrote: > I thought there was an apache project doing some sort of cool thing to convert > XML to SQL, I thought the name was Castor, but I cannot find it on the Apache > site. http://castor.exolab.org/ Castor is not an apache project. > I do find Castor from some other people. > > So, what other tools are there for converting XML to SQL? Hmmm, that's a fuzzy question: * do you have a schema in some funky XML and want to generate SQL from it? * do you have some XML data and want to generate SQL to store it? * have some SQL result set and want to generate XML? florin From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri May 4 20:31:16 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] when things go really wrong.... In-Reply-To: <20010504165233.B8010@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 May 2001, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > Just a reminder of how far UNIX can get you, with a bit of creativity and > presence of mind: A testament to some rational sysadmins. That's a heck of a war story. How can I mention that only *NIX (in my limited personal experience) is so stupid as to leave the 'rm *' command completely unprotected without raining on the parade? It's kind of like the Ole and Lena joke: "A good wife is one who helps you through all the troubles you wouldn't have had if you hadn't gotten married." :) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Fri May 4 20:54:38 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kerberos 5, Linux, and Windows 2000 In-Reply-To: <20010504175216.A23089@iaxs.net>; from sraun@fireopal.org on Fri, May 04, 2001 at 05:52:16PM -0500 References: <20010504175216.A23089@iaxs.net> Message-ID: <20010504205438.F7366@ringworld.org> * Scott Raun [010504 18:23]: > It looks like an "MIT realm" is their term for Kerberos > authentication. I'm going to a talk at USENIX on intergrating w2k boxes into a MIT Kerberos network. I'm wondering what they figured out. :) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010504/ea11b2b0/attachment.pgp From jpschewe at mtu.net Fri May 4 21:04:13 2001 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] USB, visor and linux Message-ID: Ok, so has anyone else noticed that the visor USB driver worked perfectly fine under 2.2.8, but all of the 2.4.x kernels have screwed it up? Under 2.4.2 and 2.4.3 I was at least able to get data from the visor to the PC, just not the other way. Now under 2.4.4 I can't get data either way. It really irks me when someone adds a feature to a piece of software and then in the next rev breaks it. -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From austad at marketwatch.com Fri May 4 21:23:52 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] when things go really wrong.... Message-ID: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109909@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> What version of unix was it? If solaris, they could have just put in the cdrom and done "boot -s cdrom" or if linux just used Tom's root boot. I assume other Unices also have some sort of boot from cdrom in single-user mode feature. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Phil Mendelsohn [mailto:mend0070@tc.umn.edu] > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 8:31 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] when things go really wrong.... > > > On Fri, 4 May 2001, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > > > Just a reminder of how far UNIX can get you, with a bit of > creativity and > > presence of mind: > > A testament to some rational sysadmins. That's a heck of a war story. > > How can I mention that only *NIX (in my limited personal > experience) is > so stupid as to leave the 'rm *' command completely > unprotected without > raining on the parade? > > It's kind of like the Ole and Lena joke: > > "A good wife is one who helps you through all the troubles > you wouldn't > have had if you hadn't gotten married." :) > > -- > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From dutchman at uswest.net Fri May 4 21:51:14 2001 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GNOME Application Minimization References: Message-ID: <3AF36AA2.620B54EB@uswest.net> "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" wrote: > You mean it dissappears? Bring up the properties of your tasklist. Uncheck > enable task grouping. Everything reappear? :) Those GNOME people don't > have and Mac converts working for them, no sir... > > If you enable task grouping create a menu panel (if you don't allready > have one) and click on the icon in the upper left to see all your tasks, > or click the downward arrow in your pager. > > If you don't have the tasklist of pager on your panel, well, add them. :) No, all of a sudden when I minimized an application, it would no longer go to the taskbar, nor would it show up on my little virtual desktop. I finally got pissed enough to shutdown X and blow away all my GNOME settings and start over. That is twice in two days I have had to do that. Yesterday, I started GNOME up and neither the top or bottom taskbar would appear. I tried everything but I could not get them back for love or money. Is KDE more stable? GNOME is really starting to give me a bad case of Windows. -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Solutions perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From stauffer_james at yahoo.com Fri May 4 23:09:34 2001 From: stauffer_james at yahoo.com (James A. N. Stauffer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] make bzImage error Message-ID: <20010505040934.15575.qmail@web11503.mail.yahoo.com> If someone has the free time, can you look at the attached output of make bzImage to give me clues about why it errors? I also attached my .config. ===== = o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ _____=======_||___ o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | | Stauffer_James | .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | | @yahoo.com | >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|________________| _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o¬o¬o o¬o¬o` 'o¬o o¬o` __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: nohup.out Type: application/x-unknown Size: 43531 bytes Desc: nohup.out Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010504/82261c20/nohup.bin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: .config Type: application/x-unknown Size: 7763 bytes Desc: .config Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010504/82261c20/config.bin From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Fri May 4 23:49:27 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GNOME Application Minimization In-Reply-To: <3AF36AA2.620B54EB@uswest.net>; from dutchman@uswest.net on Fri, May 04, 2001 at 09:51:14PM -0500 References: <3AF36AA2.620B54EB@uswest.net> Message-ID: <20010504234927.B2440@ringworld.org> * Perry Hoekstra [010504 21:54]: > No, all of a sudden when I minimized an application, it would no longer go to > the taskbar, nor would it show up on my little virtual desktop. I finally got What version are you running on what dist? -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010504/eeca8e0e/attachment.pgp From fertch at mninter.net Sat May 5 00:21:10 2001 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GNOME Application Minimization References: <3AF2C7C6.A7EE4CA4@uswest.net> Message-ID: <3AF38DC6.FEE58EE6@mninter.net> Do an alt+tab to see the different minimized windows. Much like Windoze Perry Hoekstra wrote: > Greet the sun all: > > Has anybody had problems with application minimization under GNOME 1.4? > If I minimize an application, it does not go to the toolbar. The > application does not shutdown, I can see it if I do a ps. I checked the > configuration panel for minimization and everthing looks fine. I looked > in the ximian support mailing list but there was nothing on this problem > there. > > Perry Hoekstra > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jwanderson at uswest.net Sat May 5 05:48:54 2001 From: jwanderson at uswest.net (Jay W. Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] when things go really wrong.... In-Reply-To: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109909@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <200105051048.f45Amtk31676@sprite.real-time.com> Check the date: This classic article from Mario Wolczko first appeared on Usenet in 1986. I don't think that they had the option to boot from cdrom. On 4 May 01, at 21:23, Austad, Jay wrote: > What version of unix was it? If solaris, they could have just put in the > cdrom and done "boot -s cdrom" or if linux just used Tom's root boot. I > assume other Unices also have some sort of boot from cdrom in single-user > mode feature. > From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sat May 5 08:23:13 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] when things go really wrong.... In-Reply-To: <200105051048.f45Amtk31676@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 May 2001, Jay W. Anderson wrote: > Check the date: > This classic article from Mario Wolczko first appeared on Usenet in > 1986. > I don't think that they had the option to boot from cdrom. > > > On 4 May 01, at 21:23, Austad, Jay wrote: > > > What version of unix was it? If solaris, they could have just put in the > > cdrom and done "boot -s cdrom" or if linux just used Tom's root boot. I > > assume other Unices also have some sort of boot from cdrom in single-user > > mode feature. Not only that, it was clear that they were running on a VAX, so it was probably DEC's UNIX. Definitely not Solaris or Linux. They also wanted to avoid having to call DEC field service. They were a good field service group, but service being what it is, it inspired the following joke: --- Q: How do you know the DEC field service engr. stopped by the side of the road with a flat tire? A: He's the one changing all the tires to find out which one's flat. Q: How do you know the DEC field service engr. stopped by the side of the road because he's out of gas? A: He's the one changing all the tires to find out which one's flat. :) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From rseymour at anarchysoftware.com Sat May 5 08:41:07 2001 From: rseymour at anarchysoftware.com (Richard Seymour) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] beer meeting? Message-ID: Is there a beer meeting Thrusday? When? Where? -- Richard Seymour, Anarchy Software, Inc. rseymour@anarchysoftware.com The opinions expressed are those of my employer, not my own. From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sat May 5 11:10:52 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] .zip files In-Reply-To: <3AE49F67.25EE9DE0@securecomputing.com> Message-ID: Stupid human question: There's gotta be a way to unzip files with .zip extensions besides the pkzip Linux version, which gives me a fairly ridiculous missing library error. (This is the zip archive format from Windows.) It's not in gunzip, bunzip2, I think. I can't remember other options.... TIA -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From ben at nerp.net Sat May 5 11:21:17 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] .zip files In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- hrm.. the only app that comes to mind is "unzip" and "zip" (2 different program distributions for some reason) both have allways worked flawlessly as long as I can remember them being around. Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Sat, 5 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > Stupid human question: > > There's gotta be a way to unzip files with .zip extensions besides the > pkzip Linux version, which gives me a fairly ridiculous missing library > error. (This is the zip archive format from Windows.) It's not in > gunzip, bunzip2, I think. I can't remember other options.... > > TIA > > -- > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOvQof8tpDhsSpvgtAQECywQAi3SZHfu3HcJSzWeqTwS3CHZymR5jySGg 9cdqWewA/pX3GPNEtAHXpFMrLOCYP1bUoFVkECvAbUkdHS3fdB8f/D2lE+tnYrw8 u3j1LGHVwLPflteRnuG6BXm3JD/7oGmWvNFAO+3d0uOFwW/64sGRBuZHTimMUzlr VapDzyShFMk= =xBhr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nate at techie.com Sat May 5 11:25:20 2001 From: nate at techie.com (Nate Straz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] .zip files In-Reply-To: ; from mend0070@tc.umn.edu on Sat, May 05, 2001 at 11:10:52AM -0500 References: <3AE49F67.25EE9DE0@securecomputing.com> Message-ID: <20010505112520.A6858@candle.rawstew> On Sat, May 05, 2001 at 11:10:52AM -0500, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > There's gotta be a way to unzip files with .zip extensions besides the > pkzip Linux version, which gives me a fairly ridiculous missing library > error. (This is the zip archive format from Windows.) It's not in > gunzip, bunzip2, I think. I can't remember other options.... You're looking for unzip, a.k.a. Info Zip. The package name is usually unzip. Nate From esper at sherohman.org Sat May 5 12:27:28 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] when things go really wrong.... In-Reply-To: ; from mend0070@tc.umn.edu on Fri, May 04, 2001 at 08:31:16PM -0500 References: <20010504165233.B8010@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010505122728.C26208@sherohman.org> On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 08:31:16PM -0500, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > How can I mention that only *NIX (in my limited personal experience) is > so stupid as to leave the 'rm *' command completely unprotected without > raining on the parade? If you need that kind of protection, alias rm='rm -i' (or your preferred shell's equivalent) will provide it. *nix makes the assumption that, no matter how stupid a command may sound, you're smarter than the computer, so it doesn't try to second-guess you unless you explicitly tell it to. Yes, *nix is stupid. But it knows that and stays out of your way, which is better than assuming that the user is stupid too. -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.1: GCS d? s+: a- C++ UL++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w---$ O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv b+ DI++++ D G e* h+ r y+ From scanman at mninter.net Sat May 5 16:04:03 2001 From: scanman at mninter.net (ScanMan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PARTITIONING In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01050516054701.20322@scanman.localhost.localdomain> There is a little known fact that I know: You can repartition your drive as much as you want, but as long as you don't format anything, if you repartition it exactly as you had it before, your data will magically reappear! On Fri, 04 May 2001, you wrote: > On Sat, 5 May 2001, George Bilios wrote: > > > I am attempting to partition my system so I can install Linux! Mandrake with > > Partition Magic 4.0. I don't know how to go about this. I'm new at this, > > as you know one mistake can whipe the entire system. > > Is your trouble that partition magic is cryptic, or that you aren't sure > how to assign partitions? I don't know what you've got on it right now, > but maybe wiping the system isn't as bad as it sounds. (Make a backup > first!) > > Phil M > > -- > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scanman at mninter.net Sat May 5 16:20:27 2001 From: scanman at mninter.net (ScanMan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PARTITIONING In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01050516210502.20322@scanman.localhost.localdomain> Doing all those partitions just limits you in the long run. I reccommend just 1 big partition. On Fri, 04 May 2001, you wrote: > Ahh the art of partitioning. Partition Magic is very good at resizing. If > you want to keep windows around, shrink the partition but keep the windows > partition as the first partition on the drive. From there you can create > up to 3 more primary partitions (for a total of 4 on one hard disk) or > create one extended partition with mutiple drives. Partition Magic will > most likey default to an extended partition, this is fine, and the most > common. > > Now the question is how to devide up that space. (and how much do you > need.) Everything below includes a swap partition. Don't forget the swap > partition. 2xRAM is a general rule of thumb for your swap partition. > > How you partition is a matter of preference and need. I suggest at least > having a seperate / and /home. > > Here are my space guidelines for common mountpoints: > > / - 150mb > |- /boot - 10mb, generally only needed in special cases. > |- /home - Give your self plenty of room for mp3, download, etc. > |- /usr - 2gb minimum, more is better. > |- /usr/local - Depends on what you'll be installing here. > |- /var - 500mb minimum. More and more GNOME stuff is using var. > |- /tmp _ 250mb-500mb. Some applications like filling /tmp (VMWare) > |- /opt - Depends on what you'll be installing here. > > Partitioning a UNIX system is need and personal preference based, so come > up with your own rules based on what you'll be doing and the space > suggestions above. > > | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | > | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | > | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | > | His power apparently lies in his ability to | > | choose incompetent enemies. | > | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrome at real-time.com Sat May 5 16:22:21 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GNOME Application Minimization In-Reply-To: <3AF36AA2.620B54EB@uswest.net>; from dutchman@uswest.net on Fri, May 04, 2001 at 09:51:14PM -0500 References: <3AF36AA2.620B54EB@uswest.net> Message-ID: <20010505162221.F15850@real-time.com> > Is KDE more > stable? GNOME is really starting to give me a bad case of Windows. avoid both. use fvwm2. :) Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From chrome at real-time.com Sat May 5 16:27:12 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] when things go really wrong.... In-Reply-To: <20010505122728.C26208@sherohman.org>; from esper@sherohman.org on Sat, May 05, 2001 at 12:27:28PM -0500 References: <20010504165233.B8010@real-time.com> <20010505122728.C26208@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20010505162712.G15850@real-time.com> > If you need that kind of protection, > > alias rm='rm -i' problem in the original story was that the programmer had done 'rm -rf'. with the -f involved, all bets are off. :) > Yes, *nix is stupid. But it knows that and stays out of your way, which is > better than assuming that the user is stupid too. When I was living in Sweden, the student computer club's SunOS machine had a MOTD that read something like: "Unix does not stop you from doing stupid things, because stopping you from doing stupid things would stop you from doing clever things." "Microsoft Windows is pretty good at stopping you from doing stupid things." both were attributed to people who's names I've since forgotten. :) Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sat May 5 16:47:47 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] when things go really wrong.... In-Reply-To: <20010505162712.G15850@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 May 2001, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > > If you need that kind of protection, > > > > alias rm='rm -i' That's what Dave said. rm doesn't need to alias to rm -i, only rm -(any flags) *. > > Yes, *nix is stupid. But it knows that and stays out of your way, which is > > better than assuming that the user is stupid too. In general, yes. There are a couple of exceptions, I'd say, this being one of them. > When I was living in Sweden, the student computer club's SunOS > machine had a MOTD that read something like: > > "Unix does not stop you from doing stupid things, because stopping you from > doing stupid things would stop you from doing clever things." > > "Microsoft Windows is pretty good at stopping you from doing stupid things." That's cute, even if the logic is a little munged up. Windows being good at stopping you from doing stupid things doesn't imply that it stops you from doing clever things -- that's a whole 'nother part of the feature set! The ideal system would not impede cleverness, but it would question (not stop) stupidity. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sat May 5 17:07:49 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Analog RAM meter Q In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If this needs to move off this list, just tell me where to put it. Any better suggestions are welcome, but I think I have a game plan. I forget who was involved, but I have a question or two about the RAM meter thing, if we're going to try and build a circuit. I started thinking about it and realized that depending on what we're trying to do, it might not be that useful. First: are we measuring used RAM? Free RAM? Swap? what? Second: this is only going to be a crude indicator, probably, because we have to scale it onto the face of the meter. Do you want it to go 0--1/2--full like a gas tank? It's going to be possible, or maybe likely, that it just hangs out near the top of the gauge all the time, if Top is any indication (on my system.) Third: Whoever is doing things with drivers, the easiest thing might be to flip DTR on the serial port. Can you write something that does that in a clocked way? If you call 10 cycles one "word", then just keep it high for one clock cycle per 10% of the reading you are trying to indicate, i.e., 100% would be always high, on 5 off 5 would be 50%, etc. I think this wouldn't be too hard -- C or perl(?) can certainly do something every so many milliseconds. I'm pretty sure serial port I/O is not difficult to get at. Fourth: Did someone find meters that they want to use? I need to know the specifics of the meter. (volts / amps / shunt resistance.) Then, once we get that far, we can determine the clock freq and I can do the meter driver. Cheers, Phil -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sat May 5 17:11:51 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] .zip files In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 5 May 2001, Ben Kochie wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > hrm.. the only app that comes to mind is "unzip" and "zip" (2 different > program distributions for some reason) both have allways worked > flawlessly as long as I can remember them being around. Thanks, that was it. Brain fart. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From dutchman at uswest.net Sat May 5 17:11:29 2001 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GNOME Application Minimization References: <3AF36AA2.620B54EB@uswest.net> <20010504234927.B2440@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <3AF47A90.5E13BBD3@uswest.net> Scott Dier wrote: > * Perry Hoekstra [010504 21:54]: > > No, all of a sudden when I minimized an application, it would no longer go to > > the taskbar, nor would it show up on my little virtual desktop. I finally got > > What version are you running on what dist? GNOME 1.4 on RH 7.1 -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Solutions perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From jethro at freakzilla.com Sat May 5 17:20:36 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Analog RAM meter Q In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, On Sat, 5 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > First: are we measuring used RAM? Free RAM? Swap? what? analogmeter -c measures CPU, -r measures RAM, -s measures swap, pipe to it from other programs... whatever we want. > Second: this is only going to be a crude indicator, probably, because we > have to scale it onto the face of the meter. I thought it'd be percentage, yeah... unless it does Load Avarage... -Yaron -- From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sat May 5 17:37:31 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Analog RAM meter Q In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 5 May 2001, Yaron wrote: > > First: are we measuring used RAM? Free RAM? Swap? what? > > analogmeter -c measures CPU, -r measures RAM, -s measures swap, pipe to it > from other programs... whatever we want. > > > Second: this is only going to be a crude indicator, probably, because we > > have to scale it onto the face of the meter. > > I thought it'd be percentage, yeah... unless it does Load Avarage... OK. Then we'll do the driver on a flopping DTR, if someone can write that, and the rest can be handled by software. Really need those meter specs, though... -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From esper at sherohman.org Sat May 5 18:40:27 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] when things go really wrong.... In-Reply-To: ; from mend0070@tc.umn.edu on Sat, May 05, 2001 at 04:47:47PM -0500 References: <20010505162712.G15850@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010505184027.A29003@sherohman.org> On Sat, May 05, 2001 at 04:47:47PM -0500, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On Sat, 5 May 2001, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > > > If you need that kind of protection, > > > > > > alias rm='rm -i' > > That's what Dave said. rm doesn't need to alias to rm -i, only > rm -(any flags) *. I will continue to disagree... If you had an application which created a crapload of little temporary files as it ran (of course, no _real_ application makes temporary files, right?), all in its own directory, say /var/foo, then forcing rm to be -i any time * is passed as a parameter makes it a little more difficult for that program to clean up after itself - and substantially more difficult for you to clean up after it manually if it crashes. Or perhaps you discover a user who's been hoarding pr0n on your server (but, again, no _real_ user would ever do that). There's a directory with 6573 jpgs of Natalie Portman (naked and petrified, of course) to get rid of. If 'rm *' ignores -f and insists on being -i, you're going to be there all day pressing 'y'. It could even lead to people setting up a new alias: alias rm='yes | rm' in order to bypass the command's overprotectiveness. And I know that I would be one of them. > > "Unix does not stop you from doing stupid things, because stopping you from > > doing stupid things would stop you from doing clever things." Thanks for mentioning this one, Carl. I agree absolutely. Some clever things look stupid (and vice-versa) and computers can't tell the difference. -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.1: GCS d? s+: a- C++ UL++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w---$ O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv b+ DI++++ D G e* h+ r y+ From jamie at getsetnet.net Sat May 5 18:33:54 2001 From: jamie at getsetnet.net (Jamie Ostrowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Analog RAM meter Q In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 5 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On Sat, 5 May 2001, Yaron wrote: > > > > First: are we measuring used RAM? Free RAM? Swap? what? > > > > analogmeter -c measures CPU, -r measures RAM, -s measures swap, pipe to it > > from other programs... whatever we want. > > > > > Second: this is only going to be a crude indicator, probably, because we > > > have to scale it onto the face of the meter. > > > > I thought it'd be percentage, yeah... unless it does Load Avarage... > > OK. Then we'll do the driver on a flopping DTR, if someone can write > that, and the rest can be handled by software. Really need those meter > specs, though... It is going to depend on what kind of meters everyone is interested in. Personally I would like one that is rather vintage-looking, but thats just MHO. Different meters are probably going to have different specs. It would be best if we all had the same meters, would make the project easier, I would think anyway. Maybe we should have a seperate list for this project because something tells me there is going to be a lot of communication required that isn't going to really interest other TCLUG list subscribers. So what kind of meters would we want? Vintage looking? Newer? Doesn't matter? Let me know and I will try and find some that we will all like and will have reasonable specs. - Jme > > -- "It's pretty hard to stop a man who eats his toast every morning." From clay at fandre.com Sat May 5 20:03:51 2001 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PARTITIONING References: <01050516210502.20322@scanman.localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3AF4A2F7.5F0A0E3F@fandre.com> ScanMan wrote: > > Doing all those partitions just limits you in the long run. I reccommend just 1 > big partition. > Having one big partition may be OK for a home system, but for a system that may be on the internet (or multiuser) there are many good reasons for having multiple partitions. The main ones being security and system integrity. With one big partition you run the risk of filling up the partition and making your system unusable. This can easily be done by filling up /tmp, /var, etc. Making these separate partitions reduce the risk of bringing your system down if one of these fill up. From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sat May 5 20:37:41 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Analog RAM meter Q In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 5 May 2001, Jamie Ostrowski wrote: > Different meters are probably going to have different specs. It would > be best if we all had the same meters, would make the project easier, > I would think anyway. Well, I'll do the driver once. After that, it might be best to put up a web page to educate/train how to calculate the right impedances for whatever anyone finds to use. > So what kind of meters would we want? Vintage looking? Newer? Doesn't > matter? Let me know and I will try and find some that we will all like and > will have reasonable specs. It's not a matter of "reasonable" -- pretty much anything can work. But if we change the meter, every other circuit value will probably change. Not that there will be many, but still. A D'Arsonval movement meter is just a teensy little coil on a jeweled pivot, so it tends to be sensitive. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From austad at marketwatch.com Sat May 5 20:48:52 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Analog RAM meter Q Message-ID: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F10990D@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Vintage! My friend has a Harman Kardon amp with a blue backlit vintage meter on the front. Unfortunately, I can't find it on their site. Having something like that would prompt me to get a nice dark red stained piece of burled walnut for the front of my box to mount it in. :) Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Jamie Ostrowski [mailto:jamie@getsetnet.net] > Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 6:34 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Analog RAM meter Q > > > On Sat, 5 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > > On Sat, 5 May 2001, Yaron wrote: > > > > > > First: are we measuring used RAM? Free RAM? Swap? what? > > > > > > analogmeter -c measures CPU, -r measures RAM, -s measures > swap, pipe to it > > > from other programs... whatever we want. > > > > > > > Second: this is only going to be a crude indicator, > probably, because we > > > > have to scale it onto the face of the meter. > > > > > > I thought it'd be percentage, yeah... unless it does Load > Avarage... > > > > OK. Then we'll do the driver on a flopping DTR, if someone > can write > > that, and the rest can be handled by software. Really need > those meter > > specs, though... > > > It is going to depend on what kind of meters everyone is > interested > in. Personally I would like one that is rather > vintage-looking, but thats > just MHO. Different meters are probably going to have > different specs. It > would be best if we all had the same meters, would make the project > easier, I would think anyway. > > Maybe we should have a seperate list for this project because > something tells me there is going to be a lot of > communication required > that isn't going to really interest other TCLUG list subscribers. > > So what kind of meters would we want? Vintage looking? > Newer? Doesn't > matter? Let me know and I will try and find some that we will > all like and > will have reasonable specs. > > - Jme > > > > > > > > > -- > > "It's pretty hard to stop a man who eats his toast every morning." > > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sat May 5 20:53:38 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] when things go really wrong.... In-Reply-To: <20010505184027.A29003@sherohman.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 May 2001, Dave Sherohman wrote: > On Sat, May 05, 2001 at 04:47:47PM -0500, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > On Sat, 5 May 2001, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > > > > If you need that kind of protection, > > > > > > > > alias rm='rm -i' > > > > That's what Dave said. rm doesn't need to alias to rm -i, only > > rm -(any flags) *. > > I will continue to disagree... I thought I was the one being disagreeable. No matter; as you point out the significant thing about UNIX is that you can write or delete any alias or script you want for rm on your system, and I can write a "mollytoggle" that means you have to arm the missle before you can fire it on mine. And in a hundred years, we'll both be gone anyway. Phil M -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From andy at theasis.com Sat May 5 23:19:43 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PARTITIONING In-Reply-To: <3AF4A2F7.5F0A0E3F@fandre.com> Message-ID: To expand a bit... > Having one big partition may be OK for a home system, but for a system > that may be on the internet (or multiuser) there are many good reasons > for having multiple partitions. The main ones being security and system > integrity. With one big partition you run the risk of filling up the > partition and making your system unusable. This can easily be done by > filling up /tmp, /var, etc. Making these separate partitions reduce the > risk of bringing your system down if one of these fill up. Keeping /home on a separate partition allows you to redo your whole system (e.g., remove one distribution and install another) without losing user data. Same applies to things like all your non-pkg installations in /usr/local/. Then there's backup. It's a easier to design and implement backup schedules for different parts of the filesystem that have different requirements (e.g., /home changes much more frequently than /usr) if they're on different partitions. I don't know what else. I'm in Texas at the moment, and so I can't think. Andy From drake at lemongecko.org Sat May 5 23:38:29 2001 From: drake at lemongecko.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PARTITIONING In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 5 May 2001 andy@theasis.com wrote: > I'm in Texas at the moment, and so I can't think. Texas *does* seem to rob people of the ability to think. Now please, for our sake, stay out of politics... Dan -- /*-------------------------------- Dan Drake http://lemongecko.org/drake/ --------pgp encouraged----------*/ From m_nassar at yahoo.com Sun May 6 09:43:04 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Analog RAM meter Q In-Reply-To: <200105060151.f461pik14723@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010506144304.93850.qmail@web10105.mail.yahoo.com> question: is it possible to add some blinkenlights to that meter? i mean who else do you age your computer without blinkenlights? and while we are there does anybody have a 8 inch semi-round green screen? you know: the kind that is good for pong and stuff? -munir > Subject: [TCLUG] Analog RAM meter Q > Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > If this needs to move off this list, just tell me > where to put it. > Any better suggestions are welcome, but I think I > have a game plan. > > I forget who was involved, but I have a question or > two about the RAM > meter thing, if we're going to try and build a > circuit. > > I started thinking about it and realized that > depending on what we're > trying to do, it might not be that useful. > > First: are we measuring used RAM? Free RAM? Swap? > what? > > Second: this is only going to be a crude indicator, > probably, because we > have to scale it onto the face of the meter. Do you > want it to go > 0--1/2--full like a gas tank? It's going to be > possible, or maybe likely, > that it just hangs out near the top of the gauge all > the time, if Top is > any indication (on my system.) > > Third: Whoever is doing things with drivers, the > easiest thing might be > to flip DTR on the serial port. Can you write > something that does that in > a clocked way? > > If you call 10 cycles one "word", then just keep it > high for one clock > cycle per 10% of the reading you are trying to > indicate, i.e., 100% would > be always high, on 5 off 5 would be 50%, etc. I > think this wouldn't be > too hard -- C or perl(?) can certainly do something > every so many > milliseconds. I'm pretty sure serial port I/O is > not difficult to get at. > > Fourth: Did someone find meters that they want to > use? I need to know > the specifics of the meter. (volts / amps / shunt > resistance.) > > Then, once we get that far, we can determine the > clock freq and I can do > the meter driver. > > Cheers, > Phil > > -- > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." > --Anonymous ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From jamie at getsetnet.net Sun May 6 09:02:32 2001 From: jamie at getsetnet.net (Jamie Ostrowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Analog RAM meter Q In-Reply-To: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F10990D@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: Okay, sounds like we all want vintage looking meters. I will try to see what I can come up with. It would be especially perfect if we could come up with a meter that has a backface that says Memory Usage. hmmm... - Jme On Sat, 5 May 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > Vintage! > > My friend has a Harman Kardon amp with a blue backlit vintage meter on the > front. Unfortunately, I can't find it on their site. Having something like > that would prompt me to get a nice dark red stained piece of burled walnut > for the front of my box to mount it in. :) > > Jay > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jamie Ostrowski [mailto:jamie@getsetnet.net] > > Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 6:34 PM > > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Analog RAM meter Q > > > > > > On Sat, 5 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > > > > On Sat, 5 May 2001, Yaron wrote: > > > > > > > > First: are we measuring used RAM? Free RAM? Swap? what? > > > > > > > > analogmeter -c measures CPU, -r measures RAM, -s measures > > swap, pipe to it > > > > from other programs... whatever we want. > > > > > > > > > Second: this is only going to be a crude indicator, > > probably, because we > > > > > have to scale it onto the face of the meter. > > > > > > > > I thought it'd be percentage, yeah... unless it does Load > > Avarage... > > > > > > OK. Then we'll do the driver on a flopping DTR, if someone > > can write > > > that, and the rest can be handled by software. Really need > > those meter > > > specs, though... > > > > > > It is going to depend on what kind of meters everyone is > > interested > > in. Personally I would like one that is rather > > vintage-looking, but thats > > just MHO. Different meters are probably going to have > > different specs. It > > would be best if we all had the same meters, would make the project > > easier, I would think anyway. > > > > Maybe we should have a seperate list for this project because > > something tells me there is going to be a lot of > > communication required > > that isn't going to really interest other TCLUG list subscribers. > > > > So what kind of meters would we want? Vintage looking? > > Newer? Doesn't > > matter? Let me know and I will try and find some that we will > > all like and > > will have reasonable specs. > > > > - Jme > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > "It's pretty hard to stop a man who eats his toast every morning." > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- "It's pretty hard to stop a man who eats his toast every morning." From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sun May 6 11:19:04 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Analog RAM meter Q In-Reply-To: <20010506144304.93850.qmail@web10105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 May 2001, Munir Nassar wrote: > question: is it possible to add some blinkenlights to > that meter? i mean who else do you age your computer > without blinkenlights? Possible -- sure. But I'd imagine you want the bulbs behind the cut faceted red lenses (about 3/8" diameter) rather than anything smaller. > and while we are there does anybody have a 8 inch > semi-round green screen? you know: the kind that is > good for pong and stuff? I used to use my amber monitor for watching TV -- I had a component tuner that I found surplus somewhere. You'd probably be really happiest with the CRT from an old Tek scope, but that's a lot more difficult project than I have time to think about. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sun May 6 11:25:33 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Analog RAM meter Q In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 6 May 2001, Jamie Ostrowski wrote: > Okay, sounds like we all want vintage looking meters. I will try to > see what I can come up with. It would be especially perfect if we could > come up with a meter that has a backface that says Memory Usage. hmmm... > It's possible to have someone make a replacemnt backplate. You won't find anything labelled that already, though. To be truly vintage in this case (yeah, like it really is historically accurate), the label would not be part of the meter, it would either be etched into the metal below the bezel, esp. if you like the HP test equipment look, or alternately you could just do it with a Dymo label machine (you know, the old raised letters.) All computers used to be a lot more roll your own. Actually, I just found an old book with a lot of pictures of 60's era computers when I was doing a little research for the Scriptor Machinalis latin compiler. (Still on the lookout for help...) I'm going to try and put some up -- maybe there's a couple of ideas in there. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From austad at marketwatch.com Sun May 6 13:38:00 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Analog RAM meter Q Message-ID: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F10990F@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> An unlabeled 0-100 scale would be perfect. Then it can just measure a percentage of whatever we're keeping track of. (% of mem used, % of cpu, etc) > -----Original Message----- > From: Phil Mendelsohn [mailto:mend0070@tc.umn.edu] > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 11:26 AM > To: 'tclug-list@mn-linux.org' > Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Analog RAM meter Q > > > On Sun, 6 May 2001, Jamie Ostrowski wrote: > > > Okay, sounds like we all want vintage looking meters. I > will try to > > see what I can come up with. It would be especially perfect > if we could > > come up with a meter that has a backface that says Memory > Usage. hmmm... > > > > It's possible to have someone make a replacemnt backplate. > You won't find > anything labelled that already, though. > > To be truly vintage in this case (yeah, like it really is historically > accurate), the label would not be part of the meter, it would > either be > etched into the metal below the bezel, esp. if you like the HP test > equipment look, or alternately you could just do it with a Dymo label > machine (you know, the old raised letters.) > > All computers used to be a lot more roll your own. Actually, > I just found > an old book with a lot of pictures of 60's era computers when > I was doing > a little research for the Scriptor Machinalis latin compiler. > (Still on > the lookout for help...) I'm going to try and put some up -- maybe > there's a couple of ideas in there. > > > -- > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From zr94 at yahoo.com Sun May 6 17:27:29 2001 From: zr94 at yahoo.com (zr94@yahoo.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need a POP3 mailbox... Message-ID: <200105062209.GAA10993@bsun05.> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010506/9ef6338f/attachment.html From thefishyone at hotmail.com Sun May 6 17:29:29 2001 From: thefishyone at hotmail.com (Matt Waters) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need a POP3 mailbox... Message-ID: >Hello, > >I need a bulletproof POP3 mailbox that won't be shut down for spamming. Now why would you need a mailbox that doesn't get shut down for spamming? (/me puts a bullet in his revolver...) >My mailboxes keep getting shut down. Let's think about this long and hard for a second... > >Can you help? > >If not, can you refer me to someone who can? > >Thank you very much, > >Mike >zr94@yahoo.com Now perhaps I'm just dense, but what exactly does this have to do with Linux? The Fishy One's Infinite Wisdom #1: "If a 2000 pound gorilla asks you for your Rolex, by God, you give it to him!" New wisdom every week! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: zr94@yahoo.com Subject: [TCLUG] I need a POP3 mailbox... Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 15:27:29 -0700 Size: 2352 Url: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010506/44b21dee/attachment.mht From labmat at mn.mediaone.net Sun May 6 17:30:22 2001 From: labmat at mn.mediaone.net (Matthew LaBerge) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Analog RAM meter Q In-Reply-To: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F10990F@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: You could make it out of card stock, anglue it to the back plate, I think most meters have a paper or plastic thing similar to what I'm taking about. It would make it easier for them to roll out their meters for different applications. If you guys decide on a meter I can CAD up a back plate for ya all. Let me know. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Austad, Jay Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 1:38 PM To: 'tclug-list@mn-linux.org' Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Analog RAM meter Q An unlabeled 0-100 scale would be perfect. Then it can just measure a percentage of whatever we're keeping track of. (% of mem used, % of cpu, etc) > -----Original Message----- > From: Phil Mendelsohn [mailto:mend0070@tc.umn.edu] > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 11:26 AM > To: 'tclug-list@mn-linux.org' > Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Analog RAM meter Q > > > On Sun, 6 May 2001, Jamie Ostrowski wrote: > > > Okay, sounds like we all want vintage looking meters. I > will try to > > see what I can come up with. It would be especially perfect > if we could > > come up with a meter that has a backface that says Memory > Usage. hmmm... > > > > It's possible to have someone make a replacemnt backplate. > You won't find > anything labelled that already, though. > > To be truly vintage in this case (yeah, like it really is historically > accurate), the label would not be part of the meter, it would > either be > etched into the metal below the bezel, esp. if you like the HP test > equipment look, or alternately you could just do it with a Dymo label > machine (you know, the old raised letters.) > > All computers used to be a lot more roll your own. Actually, > I just found > an old book with a lot of pictures of 60's era computers when > I was doing > a little research for the Scriptor Machinalis latin compiler. > (Still on > the lookout for help...) I'm going to try and put some up -- maybe > there's a couple of ideas in there. > > > -- > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From austad at marketwatch.com Sun May 6 18:55:25 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need a POP3 mailbox... Message-ID: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109910@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> How about we all kick your ass? -----Original Message----- From: zr94@yahoo.com [mailto:zr94@yahoo.com] Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 5:27 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] I need a POP3 mailbox... Hello, I need a bulletproof POP3 mailbox that won't be shut down for spamming. My mailboxes keep getting shut down. Can you help? If not, can you refer me to someone who can? Thank you very much, Mike zr94@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010506/6c00d4a7/attachment.html From drake at lemongecko.org Sun May 6 18:38:11 2001 From: drake at lemongecko.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need a POP3 mailbox... In-Reply-To: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109910@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 May 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > How about we all kick your ass? I have an idea that will allow people to MAKE MONEY FAST and stop spammers! Take anyone convicted of spamming, chain 'em up outside the county courthouse (or any convenient public venue) and let people pay $5 to give them a good whack with a baseball bat. I know *I* would pay five bucks for that! The government could make lots of money doing this, and the increased productivity realized by companies everywhere (whose employees wouldn't waste as much time deleting spam) would increase tax revenue. The government could cut taxes, or fix the roads in the pothole system. Everyone would MAKE MONEY FAST! So, who's with me? :) DAn -- /*-------------------------------- Dan Drake http://lemongecko.org/drake/ --------pgp encouraged----------*/ From blayer at qwest.net Sun May 6 19:57:23 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] USB, visor and linux (FIX!) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010506195723.745560fc.blayer@qwest.net> Heya, On 04 May 2001 21:04:13 -0500 "Jon Schewe" wrote: > Ok, so has anyone else noticed that the visor USB driver worked perfectly fine > under 2.2.8, but all of the 2.4.x kernels have screwed it up? Under 2.4.2 and > 2.4.3 I was at least able to get data from the visor to the PC, just not the > other way. Now under 2.4.4 I can't get data either way. It really irks me > when someone adds a feature to a piece of software and then in the next rev > breaks it. Via UHCI controller, eh? :) First, I'll tell you that I have a solid fix for this - so that way, if you don't want to read my rant, you can just skip forward to the last paragraph. This apparent breakage of the Visor driver is one of the absolute stupidest, most annoying, least thought out occurrances I have yet to come across in Linux, and I've come across a few... Here is the story: With 2.4.2 and on, there exist _two_ UHCI USB drivers... the standard driver (VIA etc.) and the 'JE' driver. This is not readily apparent to folks like myself who configure their kernel from the command line "make menuconfig" becuase (since the two drivers are mutually exclusive) if you have one of them selected, the other option does not even appear. However, if you de-select the currectly selected UCHI driver, suddenly, both options are visible. Clever, eh? Apparently this is not an issue with 'make xconfig' but I haven't looked at this myself. So onto the real evil here.. if you take a /usr/src/linux/.config file from 2.4.0 or earlier, and just drop it into the 2.4.2+ source tree, something dumb happens: It automatically selects the _new_ driver (the wrong one) instead of the old driver (the correct, working one). You build your kernel and all is well, except that you can't install applications to the visor or make large changes to the address book, etc. You never suspect that you selected the wrong UCHI driver, as you made no changes... Double clever. This bug held my Visor useless for two months until I talked to a fellow on IRC (kimo_sabe on DalNET #linux) who told me the tale. I reconfigured, found the right driver, recompiled and all is well. The moral of the story? IRC is good. -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From cbidler at talkware.net Mon May 7 00:04:56 2001 From: cbidler at talkware.net (Helper Monkey) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Analog RAM meter Q References: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F10990F@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <3AF62D6D.1B12686C@talkware.net> I haven't kept up with this thread very well, but does this statement imply a stack of multiple analog gauges with 0-100 scales, or does it imply one gague that would measure different things (the issue being the mechanics of how the gauge/gauges would be attached to/driven by the "backend")? Because, if it's the latter, I'd like to interject that few things would be cooler than a bank of old-school chrome toggle switches w/colored LEDs, labeled 'RAM', 'CPU', 'hda1', 'eth0', etc., under or next to a largish single analog meter. "Hmm...disk sounds like she's thrashing...*click* *click*...yup. Wonder what's up with that? *click* *click*...wow, lots of netork traffic...*who, ps, etc.*" Of course, I also want to get the clear-sided, neon-tube-festooned case for my workstation, for the sole purpose of putting a spin-n-click label over the center of the plexiglass that reads 'shield eyes from light', as well. :) "Austad, Jay" wrote: > > An unlabeled 0-100 scale would be perfect. Then it can just measure a > percentage of whatever we're keeping track of. (% of mem used, % of cpu, > etc) > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Phil Mendelsohn [mailto:mend0070@tc.umn.edu] > > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 11:26 AM > > To: 'tclug-list@mn-linux.org' > > Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Analog RAM meter Q > > > > > > On Sun, 6 May 2001, Jamie Ostrowski wrote: > > > > > Okay, sounds like we all want vintage looking meters. I > > will try to > > > see what I can come up with. It would be especially perfect > > if we could > > > come up with a meter that has a backface that says Memory > > Usage. hmmm... > > > > > > > It's possible to have someone make a replacemnt backplate. > > You won't find > > anything labelled that already, though. -- <------------------------Chris H. Bidler, Internet Helper Monkey-------------------------> The drive banged 3-4 times the head against its endrun, maybe to BE SURE it was there ... "*Beep TAka TAka TAka TAka -whirr- ..." -- simulated persona = "The Cube", node #251, of http://www.forum2000.org From blutgens at sistina.com Mon May 7 00:35:00 2001 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need a POP3 mailbox... In-Reply-To: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109910@mspexch1.office.mktw.net>; from austad@marketwatch.com on Sun, May 06, 2001 at 06:55:25PM -0500 References: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109910@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20010507003500.D18182@minime.sistina.com> On Sun, May 06, 2001 at 06:55:25PM -0500, Austad, Jay wrote: >How about we all kick your ass? HAHAHAHA!!! That's some funny stuff!! ROFLMAO > >-----Original Message----- >From: zr94@yahoo.com [mailto:zr94@yahoo.com] >Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 5:27 PM >To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org >Subject: [TCLUG] I need a POP3 mailbox... > > >Hello, > >I need a bulletproof POP3 mailbox that won't be shut down for spamming. >My mailboxes keep getting shut down. > >Can you help? > >If not, can you refer me to someone who can? > >Thank you very much, > >Mike >zr94@yahoo.com > >_______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Ben Lutgens cell: XXX.XXX.XXXX Sistina Software Inc. work: XXX.XXX.XXXX Mailing list admin / Punching Bag (and sorta sysadmin guy) http://www.sistina.com/ <--- great software http://www.gentoo.org/ <--- great distro Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream <--- perfect error message -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010507/7585d9c8/attachment.pgp From blayer at qwest.net Mon May 7 08:51:36 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need a POP3 mailbox... In-Reply-To: <20010507003500.D18182@minime.sistina.com> References: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109910@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> <20010507003500.D18182@minime.sistina.com> Message-ID: <20010507085136.7ca48f63.blayer@qwest.net> On Mon, 7 May 2001 00:35:00 -0500 "Ben Lutgens" wrote: Tonight, on "America's Dumbest Cyber Criminals"... > >I need a bulletproof POP3 mailbox that won't be shut down for spamming. > >My mailboxes keep getting shut down. > > > >Can you help? > > > >If not, can you refer me to someone who can? Also tonight: Sending death threats to president@whitehouse.gov - still harmless fun? ROTFLMAO! -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon May 7 09:37:50 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need a POP3 mailbox... Message-ID: <3af6b33e.2c6a.269167349@cloudnet.com> > I need a bulletproof POP3 mailbox that won't be shut down > for spamming. > My mailboxes keep getting shut down. Hmmm... sounds like a problem with Yahoo's server. They have some really great tech support if you e-mail abuse@yahoo.com and tell them your name, address, phone number, etc. Tell them that you're having this problem and that you'd like a special "premium" account that allows you to send unsolicted e-mail to all corners of the world without getting shut down. be very clear to them that you're sending UNSOLICITED e-mail, They'll give y0u th3 h00kup. :-) From jethro at freakzilla.com Mon May 7 09:50:08 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (jethro@freakzilla.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need a POP3 mailbox... In-Reply-To: <3af6b33e.2c6a.269167349@cloudnet.com> References: <3af6b33e.2c6a.269167349@cloudnet.com> Message-ID: <989247008.3af6b6202aed9@dragon> Hi, Quoting Brian : > > I need a bulletproof POP3 mailbox that won't be shut down > > for spamming. > > My mailboxes keep getting shut down. Wow, write one up for Good Nature and Faith In Mankind. I thought the guy meant he's GETTING lots of spam which is killing his POP mailbox. -Yaron -- From RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com Mon May 7 10:17:48 2001 From: RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Asset management software Message-ID: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A593F3B3@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Does anyone have any recommendations of decent asset management software to keep track of pc's etc? Web based would be a plus. Thanks Ryan Ware From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon May 7 10:48:08 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Asset management software Message-ID: <3af6c3b8.60f9.269167349@cloudnet.com> > Does anyone have any recommendations of decent asset > management software to > keep track of pc's etc? Web based would be a plus. Every system I've seen (including the one here at work) is a roll-your-own solution, basically with an SQL back end and some pre-defined queries on the front end. I'd like to know if there's a nice product out there that handles this well, because on the same token most of the apps I've seen suck. -Brian From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Mon May 7 11:31:56 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Asset management software In-Reply-To: <3af6c3b8.60f9.269167349@cloudnet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 May 2001, Brian wrote: > Every system I've seen (including the one here at work) is a > roll-your-own solution, basically with an SQL back end and > some pre-defined queries on the front end. I'd like to know > if there's a nice product out there that handles this well, > because on the same token most of the apps I've seen suck. Off-topic: --- Years ago, my father did some contracting for Los Alamos National Labs on an asset management project. There were a couple of wrinkles, but one was that he had to write it to keep track of "stuff," only he couldn't know what the "stuff" he was keeping track of was. (Since he had a Q-clearance, that left fairly little that Lost Almost worried about that it *could* be.) --- I'm not an asset manager. What do you need to track besides the easily imagined -- ID, date of last inventory, date placed in service, location, configuration (i.e., memory / disks / etc. if you consider those assets worth tracking) and so forth? -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From austad at marketwatch.com Mon May 7 11:36:57 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SB Live secondary outputs Message-ID: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109917@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Has anyone managed to make the secondary outputs on their SB Live work? I'd like to hook up a second set of speakers that I can control separately from my main ones. I'm using ALSA now, I was using the module that came with the kernel, but that didn't seem to work either. Jay From administrator at ltiflex.com Mon May 7 11:51:54 2001 From: administrator at ltiflex.com (Andy Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Asset management software References: Message-ID: <3AF6D2AA.48558CD3@ltiflex.com> IRMA is the only one that comes to mind: http://irma.incubus.de/ Search freshmeat as always, searching for helpdesk may be more lucrative than resource management. -- Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH) 763-428-9119 (EX) 132 21801 Industrial Blvd | (FX) 763-428-9126 Rogers, MN 55374 | (PCS) 612-306-6055 From jonathankl_2001 at yahoo.com Mon May 7 12:25:02 2001 From: jonathankl_2001 at yahoo.com (Jonathan Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SB Live secondary outputs In-Reply-To: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109917@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20010507172502.8407.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> It works in slack 7.1 using the kernel modules and workbone as well as mpg123 --- "Austad, Jay" wrote: > Has anyone managed to make the secondary outputs on their SB Live > work? I'd > like to hook up a second set of speakers that I can control > separately from > my main ones. I'm using ALSA now, I was using the module that came > with the > kernel, but that didn't seem to work either. > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Mon May 7 11:59:42 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SB Live secondary outputs In-Reply-To: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109917@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> References: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109917@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20010507115942.52e2d9a6.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> "Austad, Jay" wrote: > > Has anyone managed to make the secondary outputs on their SB Live work? > I'd like to hook up a second set of speakers that I can control > separately from my main ones. I'm using ALSA now, I was using the > module that came with the kernel, but that didn't seem to work either. Try the drivers available through CVS at http://opensource.creative.com/ They have a different kernel module, and a mixer that goes along with it that allows you to modify the `routing' between various inputs and outputs on the card. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ If you tell a joke in the / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ forest, and nobody \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) laughs, was it a joke? [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From JMiller2 at dainrauscher.com Mon May 7 12:34:35 2001 From: JMiller2 at dainrauscher.com (Miller, John) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Price Increase Message-ID: <5F82C717009DF446AD6C89008A29F3941D620B@MAIL4.corp.isib.net> I have just received notice that my AT&T is increasing their rates from 39.95 to 45.95, 6.00 increase (13%). This only applies to people who get the special rate by subscribing to their phone and/or video service. People who pay the higher rate, 49.95 are unaffected. I also learned that if you own your own modem, the rate is 10.00 cheaper. I will have to check out the cost of buying one. Here is the link to the FAQ regarding the price hike http://help.broadband.att.com/rrsupport/faq.jsp?content_id=376&category_id=3 8 John Miller Dain Rauscher Inc. Application Services IS Capital Markets Phone 612-547-7573 Fax 612-547-7580 mailto:jmiller2@dainrauscher.com From m_nassar at yahoo.com Mon May 7 12:48:43 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need a POP3 mailbox... In-Reply-To: <200105071604.f47G4wk19780@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010507174844.5058.qmail@web10101.mail.yahoo.com> must be the influence of where we come from because i thought the exact same thing... -munir > Message: 12 > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] I need a POP3 mailbox... > Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 09:50:08 -0500 (CDT) > From: jethro@freakzilla.com > Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > Hi, > > Quoting Brian : > > > > I need a bulletproof POP3 mailbox that won't be > shut down > > > for spamming. > > > My mailboxes keep getting shut down. > > Wow, write one up for Good Nature and Faith In > Mankind. I thought the guy meant > he's GETTING lots of spam which is killing his POP > mailbox. > > -Yaron ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From jeffr at odeon.net Mon May 7 12:54:09 2001 From: jeffr at odeon.net (jeffr@odeon.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] minicom question In-Reply-To: <3AF4A2F7.5F0A0E3F@fandre.com> Message-ID: Heya folks, I use minicom from time to time, and I would really like to be able to modify some of the keys, but only while I'm in minicom. For instance, I need F3 to send "esc [O". I can accomplish this in Procomm+ for dos by editing the keyboard mapping inside Procomm and changing the F3 key to "^[[O". I've tried to use the macro feature in minicom, but I don't think it will do what I need. Also, it only lets you set F1 through F10, and I need to modify F1 through F12. There is also an option for 'character conversion', which might do what I want. Is anyone aware of a howto that might cover this? The man page isn't very clear. Thanks, Jeff From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon May 7 13:16:57 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SB Live secondary outputs Message-ID: <3af6e699.4d08.269167349@cloudnet.com> > Has anyone managed to make the secondary outputs on their > SB Live work? Even under Windoze, I've never gotten mine to work. I've suspected my "white box" SB live as being not so reliable, given the price and the odd quirkiness with it. So maybe it's just my wacky card. Which gets me thinking to the analog meter project. There's several output ports on the card, you could use the main L&R for your speakers and the remaining ports for your output to the meter assembly. Maybe this sort of thing was discussed already on the analog meter thread, but I don't remember seeing it. From RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com Mon May 7 15:11:02 2001 From: RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #966 - 3 msgs Message-ID: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A593F3BD@ipserver2.interplastic.com> (Austad, Jay) > I'm not an asset manager. What do you need to track besides the easily > imagined -- ID, date of last inventory, date placed in service, location, > configuration (i.e., memory / disks / etc. if you consider those assets > worth tracking) and so forth? > It would be nice if it would track the equipment to a user, have a history of repairs on said equipment, peripherals attached to that system and so on. We are a windows shop, (but I can dream can't I?) so there are a few selections to go with for ready made stuff. We rolled our own a few years ago and it is not functional enough. We don't have much time to develop it so a ready made solution is probably in the cards. Currently we have looked a little at Tangram and Blue Ocean, if anyone has any experience with those, feel free to comment. Ryan From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Mon May 7 15:21:43 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SB Live secondary outputs In-Reply-To: <3af6e699.4d08.269167349@cloudnet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 May 2001, Brian wrote: > Which gets me thinking to the analog meter project. There's > several output ports on the card, you could use the main L&R > for your speakers and the remaining ports for your output to > the meter assembly. Maybe this sort of thing was discussed > already on the analog meter thread, but I don't remember > seeing it. Meters run on DC. It's awfully kludgy and pretty expensive to do a rectifie -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Mon May 7 15:24:31 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SB Live secondary outputs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 7 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On Mon, 7 May 2001, Brian wrote: > > > Which gets me thinking to the analog meter project. There's > > several output ports on the card, you could use the main L&R > > for your speakers and the remaining ports for your output to > > the meter assembly. Maybe this sort of thing was discussed > > already on the analog meter thread, but I don't remember > > seeing it. > > Meters run on DC. It's awfully kludgy and pretty expensive to do a > rectifie Oops -- wrong key! There's no reason to go through the sound card, since a meter driver turns the sound back into non-sound. We can get a non-sound driving signal easier from the serial port. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From jpschewe at mtu.net Mon May 7 15:30:02 2001 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] USB, visor and linux (FIX!) In-Reply-To: "Bill Layer"'s message of "Sun, 6 May 2001 19:57:23 -0500" References: <20010506195723.745560fc.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: Unfortunatly I've got the JE driver compiled in, not the VIA driver and it's still busted. "Bill Layer" writes: > Heya, > > On 04 May 2001 21:04:13 -0500 > "Jon Schewe" wrote: > > > Ok, so has anyone else noticed that the visor USB driver worked > perfectly fine > > under 2.2.8, but all of the 2.4.x kernels have screwed it up? Under > 2.4.2 and > > 2.4.3 I was at least able to get data from the visor to the PC, just not > the > > other way. Now under 2.4.4 I can't get data either way. It really irks > me > > when someone adds a feature to a piece of software and then in the next > rev > > breaks it. > > Via UHCI controller, eh? :) > > First, I'll tell you that I have a solid fix for this - so that way, if > you don't want to read my rant, you can just skip forward to the last > paragraph. This apparent breakage of the Visor driver is one of the > absolute stupidest, most annoying, least thought out occurrances I have > yet to come across in Linux, and I've come across a few... > > Here is the story: With 2.4.2 and on, there exist _two_ UHCI USB > drivers... the standard driver (VIA etc.) and the 'JE' driver. This is not > readily apparent to folks like myself who configure their kernel from the > command line "make menuconfig" becuase (since the two drivers are mutually > exclusive) if you have one of them selected, the other option does not > even appear. However, if you de-select the currectly selected UCHI driver, > suddenly, both options are visible. Clever, eh? Apparently this is not an > issue with 'make xconfig' but I haven't looked at this myself. > > So onto the real evil here.. if you take a /usr/src/linux/.config file > from 2.4.0 or earlier, and just drop it into the 2.4.2+ source tree, > something dumb happens: It automatically selects the _new_ driver (the > wrong one) instead of the old driver (the correct, working one). You build > your kernel and all is well, except that you can't install applications to > the visor or make large changes to the address book, etc. You never > suspect that you selected the wrong UCHI driver, as you made no changes... > Double clever. > > This bug held my Visor useless for two months until I talked to a fellow > on IRC (kimo_sabe on DalNET #linux) who told me the tale. I reconfigured, > found the right driver, recompiled and all is well. The moral of the > story? IRC is good. > > > -.bill.layer.- > > -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- > > -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From austad at marketwatch.com Mon May 7 15:32:35 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SB Live secondary outputs Message-ID: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109919@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Does anyone know of a decent DAC that will work with the digital out on the SB Live? I'd like to pipe the sound into an Adcom amp using real RCA cords instead of a crappy miniplug. I'm sick of crap quality sound from my computer sound setup. Since I sit in front of it all the time and it provides music and movies in my room, I might as well set up a decent sound system for it. > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian [mailto:lxy@cloudnet.com] > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 1:17 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] SB Live secondary outputs > > > > Has anyone managed to make the secondary outputs on their > > SB Live work? > > Even under Windoze, I've never gotten mine to work. I've > suspected my "white box" SB live as being not so reliable, > given the price and the odd quirkiness with it. So maybe > it's just my wacky card. > > Which gets me thinking to the analog meter project. There's > several output ports on the card, you could use the main L&R > for your speakers and the remaining ports for your output to > the meter assembly. Maybe this sort of thing was discussed > already on the analog meter thread, but I don't remember > seeing it. > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon May 7 16:27:33 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SB Live secondary outputs Message-ID: <3af71345.5f38.269167349@cloudnet.com> > Oops -- wrong key! There's no reason to go through the > sound card, since > a meter driver turns the sound back into non-sound. We > can get a > non-sound driving signal easier from the serial port. I see.. looks like I lagged behind on the analog meter thread. I thought the focus was still on the sound card. My bad... From simeonuj at eetc.com Mon May 7 16:30:22 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Woe Is Me... DSL is finally.. Oh, wait :) Message-ID: <3AF713E7.67F60E8D@eetc.com> I got the modem and tried to configure it. No dice. It wouldn't get a signal from the telephone line. No ADSL signal. I have no idea what the problem is. Called tech support ( not as close to being dumped in a vat of lemon juice after the "Torture of the Thousand Paper Cuts" as I thought ) and they think it's a bad modem. This sucks. So far tech support has been okay ( surprise ) but I still don't have a modem. Can anyone think of a reason I wouldn't get a signal? I would like to check our house wiring first and I definitely don't want them ( Qwest ) checking anything inside my house. I know the wiring is kinda messed up but the phones work fine. Does DSL use all 4 wires? I know that the phone only uses 2 of the 4. It may be just a wiring issue. I don't want to wait 4-7 days to *MAYBE* get my connection up and running. Seems like a waste to just send the modem back and get another one that doesn't work. sim From blayer at qwest.net Mon May 7 16:44:42 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] USB, visor and linux (FIX!) In-Reply-To: References: <20010506195723.745560fc.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <20010507164442.1cc2e3ce.blayer@qwest.net> On 07 May 2001 15:30:02 -0500 "Jon Schewe" wrote: > Unfortunatly I've got the JE driver compiled in, not the VIA driver and it's > still busted. That's the problem - you want the VIA driver, *not* the JE... -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From m_nassar at yahoo.com Mon May 7 18:00:44 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LPR windows printing client Message-ID: <20010507230044.85240.qmail@web10105.mail.yahoo.com> what are good Windows LPR clients out there? i am looking for something cheap (or better yet free) for a 40 computer lab... -munir ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From ben at nerp.net Mon May 7 18:08:06 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LPR windows printing client In-Reply-To: <20010507230044.85240.qmail@web10105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- NT 4 comes with a LPR client, also, you can just use samba to re-direct to LPR. it's a pice of cake.. and can be setup to auto-install the printer drivers Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Mon, 7 May 2001, Munir Nassar wrote: > what are good Windows LPR clients out there? i am > looking for something cheap (or better yet free) for a > 40 computer lab... > > -munir > > ===== > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version: 3.12 > GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOvcq2MtpDhsSpvgtAQHJvQP/ffAkzS0syBT8aun40Z9QMMNCW1j1VunI EEt2339uO0vNFO94DcK2NMgLeELNmXcRQJKs9jwdNexR2uRm+uI8My11ZwAnYaEo 7X15a/qe9j8g9DuRZ035MuSZi7S66y84s6NavlJdk4vChNl1vbLdLNljd78y0Htq rcyw350O/Fg= =UNEf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From blayer at qwest.net Mon May 7 18:40:00 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Woe Is Me... DSL is finally.. Oh, wait :) In-Reply-To: <3AF713E7.67F60E8D@eetc.com> References: <3AF713E7.67F60E8D@eetc.com> Message-ID: <20010507184000.115d1667.blayer@qwest.net> On Mon, 07 May 2001 16:30:22 -0500 "Simeon Johnston" wrote: > Can anyone think of a reason I wouldn't get a signal? I Yes, if they sent you a CAP modem when you need DMT, or vice versa. This happend to my ex-gf last week. -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From austad at marketwatch.com Mon May 7 18:42:19 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 802.11b, you, and linux Message-ID: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F10991A@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> What's the best 802.11 wireless card to buy for linux? Basically, I have some people in San Fran yelling that they want wireless, and I won't give it to them until I try to break into it and fail. So the card must be able to be put into promiscuous mode. Jay From ben at nerp.net Mon May 7 18:51:31 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 802.11b, you, and linux In-Reply-To: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F10991A@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- well, the best card, in my opinion is the lucent ORiNOCO card. and good luck with the security thing.. 802.11b is currently impossible to make as secure as wire networks. if you have the lan name, and the wep key.. you can associate to the access point.. if you are really concerened with security, you will have to wait for 802.1x authentication. or spend the big $ for proprietary security protocols, like the fancy cisco, or lucent AP's. the best thing to do for super-security wireless. you have to use VPN tunneling software into a firewall behind the access point Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Mon, 7 May 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > What's the best 802.11 wireless card to buy for linux? Basically, I have > some people in San Fran yelling that they want wireless, and I won't give it > to them until I try to break into it and fail. So the card must be able to > be put into promiscuous mode. > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOvc1BctpDhsSpvgtAQHOjAQAhBo38NheUfADzDmRckMDEOkoz7inwVMp e0ki6ejXXdODZY83KECAgEKmNXca1hmrcWM4jB0afu6srFdTb/vy3Vak1nRPBWQ/ QXZnm9NDlPINdGbfN64KhQ5ASHCXpBm5leu7kgACGvm07oD8KKU8DKC9Ah2K5Yiv fm0sjpryE44= =SJ7y -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jpschewe at mtu.net Mon May 7 18:52:54 2001 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] USB, visor and linux (FIX!) In-Reply-To: "Bill Layer"'s message of "Mon, 7 May 2001 16:44:42 -0500" References: <20010506195723.745560fc.blayer@qwest.net> <20010507164442.1cc2e3ce.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: "Bill Layer" writes: > On 07 May 2001 15:30:02 -0500 > "Jon Schewe" wrote: > > > Unfortunatly I've got the JE driver compiled in, not the VIA driver and > it's > > still busted. > > > That's the problem - you want the VIA driver, *not* the JE... Ok. This goes against what the help says for the driver though too, seeing as I've got an Intel chipset, but I'll give it a try. -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Mon May 7 20:03:19 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SB Live secondary outputs In-Reply-To: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109919@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 May 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > Does anyone know of a decent DAC that will work with the digital out on the > SB Live? If you ask 800 people you'll get 800 answers. You can define 'decent' to be anywhere from $150 to $7500. Are you a hi-fi guy, or a pro-audio guy, or just "anything outside the hostile environment of the PC" kind of guy? -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Mon May 7 20:10:08 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Woe Is Me... DSL is finally.. Oh, wait :) In-Reply-To: <3AF713E7.67F60E8D@eetc.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 May 2001, Simeon Johnston wrote: > Can anyone think of a reason I wouldn't get a signal? I would like to > check our house wiring first and I definitely don't want them ( Qwest ) > checking anything inside my house. I know the wiring is kinda messed up > but the phones work fine. That doesn't guarantee DSL to work. If you have a modern access box on the side of the house, you can do what I did today. Take the modem outside with an extension cord and plug it right into the jack on the box -- the one you should disconnect when you're working on the wiring inside. (-90V when the phone rings while your screwdriver's in there smarts!) Anyway, that will tell you if the problem is inside the house or not. > Does DSL use all 4 wires? I know that the phone only uses 2 of the 4. No, just two. Red and green, typically. > I don't want to wait 4-7 days to *MAYBE* get my connection up and > running. Seems like a waste to just send the modem back and get another > one that doesn't work. What kind of modem did you get? Should say on the sticker on the bottom. CAP or DMT? I just got a DMT and am waiting for things to go live. If that's not what you got, I'd be willing to let you try mine and see if it at least gives you a light. When are you supposed to be live? Did they say you'd be hot by this date? Cheers, Phil M -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Mon May 7 20:12:04 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SB Live secondary outputs In-Reply-To: <3af71345.5f38.269167349@cloudnet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 May 2001, Brian wrote: > I see.. looks like I lagged behind on the analog meter thread. I > thought the focus was still on the sound card. My bad... Naw, just me trampling over the sound card idea like the nerd in Algebra who always had to yell out the answer before the problem was done being put on the board.... -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From cschumann at twp-llc.com Mon May 7 20:24:09 2001 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #967 - 17 msgs References: <200105072310.f47NAIk32480@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <003101c0d75d$956f3ec0$0100a8c0@homey> > Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 16:30:22 -0500 > From: Simeon Johnston > Organization: Electronic Easel > Subject: [TCLUG] Woe Is Me... DSL is finally.. Oh, wait :) > I would like to > check our house wiring first and I definitely don't want them ( Qwest ) > checking anything inside my house. I know the wiring is kinda messed up > but the phones work fine. > It may be just a wiring issue. Go to Radio Shack and buy a (oh where IS the damned thing?) uhm... ah... Telephone Line Tester (43-104). It has two spiffy LED's on it labelled "Line 1" and "2" and the key says green means Correct Wiring, red means Reverse Polarity and off means Not Operational. I had to replace a phone jack near my computer recently. Their web site says it goes for $5.99 and has a picture. Good luck, Chris From m_nassar at yahoo.com Mon May 7 20:51:48 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LPR windows printing client In-Reply-To: <200105072310.f47NAJk32485@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010508015148.13727.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com> if it were my network i would use SAMBA (and i did on my network until i converted it all to Linux) but it is not mine its for a Novell Shop where a friend of mine works... is there a way i can use the NT lpr client? -munir > Message: 17 > Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 18:08:06 -0500 (CDT) > From: Ben Kochie > To: > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] LPR windows printing client > Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > NT 4 comes with a LPR client, also, you can just use > samba to re-direct to > LPR. it's a pice of cake.. and can be setup to > auto-install the printer > drivers > > Thank You, > Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) > > "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its > friends." > ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From tim at tneu.visi.com Mon May 7 15:36:09 2001 From: tim at tneu.visi.com (tim) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Asset management software In-Reply-To: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A593F3B3@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 May 2001, Ryan Ware wrote: > Does anyone have any recommendations of decent asset management software to > keep track of pc's etc? Web based would be a plus. At my work we use a program called Belarc. My understanding is that it is billed on a per-seat license, but I have no idea how much. It is largely based on IIS/ASP, but it works well. The client is only 600K, and it uses some sort of voodoo magic to figure out what the serial numbers are. (it does NOT require that the vendor's DMI service layer is installed in order to figure out the make/model/serial number) Of course, it gets all the SW/HW specs too, and it is all web based. You can download a trial from their website, I believe. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- What the president of the Motion Picture Association of America says about taking away your constitutional rights: "I'm rather jubilant now. What Judge Kaplan did was blow away every one of these brittle and fragile rebuttals. He threw out fair use; he threw out reverse engineering; he threw out linking." - Jack Valenti, president of the Motion Picture Association of America. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ______ _ __ "If you don't have the freedom to use what you / ' ) ) own - then you do not own anything." / o ______ / / _ . . No apologies to Jack Valenti or the MPAA / <_/ / / < / (_ > be anywhere from $150 to $7500. Are you a hi-fi guy, or a > pro-audio guy, > or just "anything outside the hostile environment of the PC" > kind of guy? I don't want to spend more than a couple of hundred bucks on one. If I were building some huge component system, I'd spend more, but I just want something better than the built in DAC and regular computer speaks. Jay From drake at lemongecko.org Mon May 7 20:54:05 2001 From: drake at lemongecko.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Woe Is Me... DSL is finally.. Oh, wait :) In-Reply-To: <3AF713E7.67F60E8D@eetc.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 May 2001, Simeon Johnston wrote: > juice after the "Torture of the Thousand Paper Cuts" as I thought ) and > they think it's a bad modem. This sounds like the problem I had. Do you have a CAP or DMT modem? I have no idea what the acronyms stand for; all you need to know is that if you have CAP lines (or a CAP DSLAM, or whatever the heck it is, I don't know), you need a CAP modem; if you have DMT lines, you need a DMT modem. Qwest is switching from CAP to DMT and if you ordered DSL at the exact wrong time you might have gotten the wrong modem. Does your WAN light ever come on? If it never blinks or anything, you might very well have this problem. > I definitely don't want them ( Qwest ) checking anything inside my > house. They wanted to check my house (er...apartment) lines too, before some tech thought to ask me if I have the right modem. My lines are fine; I can download at over half a megabit per second. Dan -- /*-------------------------------- Dan Drake http://lemongecko.org/drake/ --------pgp encouraged----------*/ From tanner at real-time.com Mon May 7 22:11:53 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] gphoto and Sony DCR-PC100 Message-ID: <20010507221153.D31980@real-time.com> Anyone able to get gphoto to talk firewall to the Sony DCR-PC100? The 115K serial link is just getting to slow for downloading pictures. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Mon May 7 21:53:30 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SB Live secondary outputs In-Reply-To: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F10991C@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 May 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > > be anywhere from $150 to $7500. Are you a hi-fi guy, or a > > pro-audio guy, > > or just "anything outside the hostile environment of the PC" > > kind of guy? > > I don't want to spend more than a couple of hundred bucks on one. If I were > building some huge component system, I'd spend more, but I just want > something better than the built in DAC and regular computer speaks. You might look at the Midiman SuperDAC 2496. List is $300, but you can probably find it cheaper (heck, try Guitar Center). It'll go up to 24-bit 96kHz, too. Or look in the back of Mix magazine, EQ magazine, ... Happy hunting, Phil -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From tanner at real-time.com Mon May 7 23:39:00 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Telcos are idiots? Message-ID: <20010507233900.B3801@real-time.com> http://www.washtech.com/washwire/6249.html Cable modems up 18%, while DSL up only 2%. Are the Telcos stupid or do they just want to stay in the voice market? We can sit here all day (or night) and explain WHY dsl usage is up only 2%, but do the Telcos care? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Tue May 8 00:09:34 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LPR windows printing client In-Reply-To: ; from ben@nerp.net on Mon, May 07, 2001 at 06:08:06PM -0500 References: <20010507230044.85240.qmail@web10105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010508000933.D4648@ringworld.org> > NT 4 comes with a LPR client, also, you can just use samba to re-direct to w2k's lpr client works too, used it just yesterday. :) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010508/239cae34/attachment.pgp From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Tue May 8 00:15:14 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 802.11b, you, and linux In-Reply-To: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F10991A@mspexch1.office.mktw.net>; from austad@marketwatch.com on Mon, May 07, 2001 at 06:42:19PM -0500 References: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F10991A@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20010508001514.E4648@ringworld.org> * Austad, Jay [010507 18:44]: > to them until I try to break into it and fail. So the card must be able to > be put into promiscuous mode. Be advised, the BSS mode the Cisco Aironet 340/350 series *seems* to not rebroadcast to all associations like a hub, but like a switch. So, promisc doesn't work. This is somehting I find *very* important when comparing the Lucent AS-1000 vs the Aironet 340/350. I'm a bit partial to the 350 seires cards, they get a helluvha range compared to the Lucent cards because they only put out about 31.6mw whereas the cisco 350 cards put out 100mw, about another 5db. I've been able to pick out more lone airport stations with it than my cohorts with lucent cards :) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010508/c95008e8/attachment.pgp From ¨Î.¨Î at real-time.com Tue May 8 02:58:20 2001 From: ¨Î.¨Î at real-time.com (¨Î.¨Î@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] =?big5?Q?=A7K =B6O =BDG =A8=AD =C5=E9 =C5=E7?= Message-ID: <200105080758.f487wFk12838@sprite.real-time.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Tue May 8 00:57:26 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Telcos are idiots? In-Reply-To: <20010507233900.B3801@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Mon, May 07, 2001 at 11:39:00PM -0500 References: <20010507233900.B3801@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010508005725.F4648@ringworld.org> * Bob Tanner [010508 00:53]: > We can sit here all day (or night) and explain WHY dsl usage is up only 2%, but > do the Telcos care? No, they would rather regulate CLECs out of the deal first. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010508/03895f38/attachment.pgp From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 8 07:26:27 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Woe Is Me... DSL is finally.. Oh, wait :) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 7 May 2001, Dan Drake wrote: > This sounds like the problem I had. Do you have a CAP or DMT modem? I > have no idea what the acronyms stand for; Carrierless AmPlitude modulation and Discrete Multi-Tone. CAP is like AM radio, sort of, and I'm not sure, but DMT is more like FSK modulation on a normal 56K modem. (Frequency Shift Keying.) My favorite bumpersticker -- "Down With TLAs" (Three-Letter Acronyms) > all you need to know is that if you have CAP lines (or a CAP DSLAM, or > whatever the heck it is, I don't know), you need a CAP modem; if you > have DMT lines, you need a DMT modem. Yep. For practical purposes, you can think of it as AM vs. FM. Both work and do roughly the same job, but they just don't speak the same language. > Qwest is switching from CAP to DMT and if you ordered DSL at the exact > wrong time you might have gotten the wrong modem. Is that so? Whew! I was worried my DMT modem was going to be the wrong kind (we're not live here yet, but waiting with bated breath.) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From ben at nerp.net Tue May 8 08:59:47 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Telcos are idiots? In-Reply-To: <20010507233900.B3801@real-time.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- from what I've seen in their ability to deliver any kind of high speed (my observations of DS3 installation, and pricing, and service levels) telco's care not one damn bit. (no pun intended) Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Mon, 7 May 2001, Bob Tanner wrote: > http://www.washtech.com/washwire/6249.html > > Cable modems up 18%, while DSL up only 2%. > > Are the Telcos stupid or do they just want to stay in the voice market? > > We can sit here all day (or night) and explain WHY dsl usage is up only 2%, but > do the Telcos care? > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOvf71ctpDhsSpvgtAQGKCgP8CQyL1/J4lFjzS8MA2T8kLArTwTSgMbMt oZF42dFI+gg+BXSPfJi9uoHOk0z66FRzWHEaxZlPmIIzgqg0L2cOqQIRLq+A5702 SD3X7hs9jdnrPM/jA/77P8Ek3KzwmykXft/0nNci73eWpX3w9H1cPJAeelJ5TqbZ Z7TdimIAmag= =qLK7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ben at nerp.net Tue May 8 09:12:57 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Laptop Lanparty Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I'm holding a laptop lanparty at Plan B coffee tomorow night at 7:00pm. the game will be quake2, which runs in linux :) let me know if you are interested in going, it's not the largest place there is.. i'd say there's room for about 10 people to play Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOvf+6stpDhsSpvgtAQG5qwP/Zj44AjQ78GpkRHQmvgE6VAYJvVuKRYaM 48Xi8ddOZNjwCEK1+dcpZ3DhCwxekzO0L1bnKvoM2KAS4MV23hr8iOnLVrJ30JWC UXXgwermC5+6oZCI2yvthqE/k1AiM5aEVSacXlbX9g0q1E8r1Yf3Vdn5dFqRjgE2 CKtnFCY6K2I= =5PGF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From natecars at real-time.com Tue May 8 09:27:58 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 802.11b, you, and linux In-Reply-To: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F10991A@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 May 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > What's the best 802.11 wireless card to buy for linux? Basically, I have > some people in San Fran yelling that they want wireless, and I won't give it > to them until I try to break into it and fail. So the card must be able to > be put into promiscuous mode. Just set up the 802.11 bridge on one side of a Linux firewall that doesn't let any non-ipsec'd packets through. :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From rechpj at earthlink.net Tue May 8 08:38:31 2001 From: rechpj at earthlink.net (Paul Rech) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] puzzler Message-ID: <3AF7F6D7.35CDC403@earthlink.net> I installed redhat 7.1 on a machine last weekend and now I can't power off with the on/off button. I had redhat 6.2 on the same machine for at least a year without trouble. Now when I do a shutdown, the on/off button causes the keyboard lights to flash but nothing else. I have to pull the power cord. CTRL-ALT-DEL does nothing, also. The reset button does reboot the machine. And shutdown -r now, works also. I dropped out of x-windows and did the shutdown myself, with same affect. Power management is off in the BIOS. I get all the normal shutdown messages: halting system stopping all md devices power down This is a hand built machine with a ASUS dual celeron 500 mobo (forgot the model). It reports the 2.4.2-2smp kernel. I did not rebuild the kernel. Nothing remarkable in the machine, just a SCSI CDROM and two 30GB IDE's. Seems fine other than this one problem, so far. And Win98 powers down fine. Even turns off the machine. Any ideas? I'd like to keep redhat on one machine, so switching to Mandrake or Debian is a last resort. Those two run fine on all my other boxes, I might add. From dopp at acm.cs.umn.edu Tue May 8 09:56:37 2001 From: dopp at acm.cs.umn.edu (dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] puzzler In-Reply-To: <3AF7F6D7.35CDC403@earthlink.net>; from rechpj@earthlink.net on Tue, May 08, 2001 at 09:38:31AM -0400 References: <3AF7F6D7.35CDC403@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20010508095637.C54609@sorry.cs.umn.edu> Did you hold the power button in for 3 seconds? That's how to shutdown a machine aith an ATX power supply if power management doesn't do it for you. Gabe On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 09:38:31AM -0400, Paul Rech wrote: > I installed redhat 7.1 on a machine last weekend and now I can't power > off with the on/off button. > > I had redhat 6.2 on the same machine for at least a year without > trouble. > > Now when I do a shutdown, the on/off button causes the keyboard lights > to flash but nothing else. > > I have to pull the power cord. > > CTRL-ALT-DEL does nothing, also. > > The reset button does reboot the machine. > And shutdown -r now, works also. > > I dropped out of x-windows and did the shutdown myself, with same > affect. > > Power management is off in the BIOS. > > I get all the normal shutdown messages: > > halting system > stopping all md devices > power down > > This is a hand built machine with a ASUS dual celeron 500 mobo (forgot > the model). > It reports the 2.4.2-2smp kernel. > I did not rebuild the kernel. > Nothing remarkable in the machine, just a SCSI CDROM and two 30GB IDE's. > > Seems fine other than this one problem, so far. > > And Win98 powers down fine. > Even turns off the machine. > > > Any ideas? > > I'd like to keep redhat on one machine, so switching to Mandrake or > Debian is a last resort. > Those two run fine on all my other boxes, I might add. > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gabe Turner | X-President, UNIX Systems Administrator, | Assoc. for Computing Machinery U of M Supercomputing Institute for | University of Minnesohta Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation | dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu "YOU _GAVE_AWAY_ $47 MILLION DOLLARS?? You fat, bloated eediot!" - Ren Hoek in "Stimpy's Big Day" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lxy at cloudnet.com Tue May 8 09:57:48 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] puzzler Message-ID: <3af8096c.4693.269167349@cloudnet.com> > I installed redhat 7.1 on a machine last weekend and now I > can't power > off with the on/off button. I'm going to take a stab and say that apmd is probably running, I'd shut that down and see if it fixes it. From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Tue May 8 10:05:00 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 802.11b, you, and linux In-Reply-To: ; from natecars@real-time.com on Tue, May 08, 2001 at 09:27:58AM -0500 References: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F10991A@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20010508100500.I4648@ringworld.org> * Nate Carlson [010508 09:29]: > Just set up the 802.11 bridge on one side of a Linux firewall that doesn't > let any non-ipsec'd packets through. :) Eaiser said than done when your target audience has issues enough figuring out how to setup ppp, let alone an ipsec tunnel. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010508/aed77aeb/attachment.pgp From administrator at ltiflex.com Tue May 8 10:15:32 2001 From: administrator at ltiflex.com (Andy Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] puzzler References: <3AF7F6D7.35CDC403@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3AF80D94.3D561F4C@ltiflex.com> If you're running a SMP box why on earth are you running Windows 98? Get Windows2000 on there so you can at least use your second processor. :) To do an auto poweroff in linux, you'll need to enable APM, at least use APM calls to shutoff computer. I thought SMP and APM were incompatible, but if Win 98 can shut off your box than the mother board supports at least some of the functionality. Perhaps Windows 98 is using ACPI instead? As for the functionality of the power button, there is often a bios setting that controls what the powerbutton does. Instant-Off, Delay then off, suspend, etc. Perhaps it's set to suspend and shouldn't be? -- Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH) 763-428-9119 (EX) 132 21801 Industrial Blvd | (FX) 763-428-9126 Rogers, MN 55374 | (PCS) 612-306-6055 From natecars at real-time.com Tue May 8 10:39:02 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 802.11b, you, and linux In-Reply-To: <20010508100500.I4648@ringworld.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 May 2001, Scott Dier wrote: > Eaiser said than done when your target audience has issues enough > figuring out how to setup ppp, let alone an ipsec tunnel. Eh, just use w2k, and get it to automatically set up the tunnels. It can be done, I've just never done it before. :) i think it's a combination of IPSec+Kerberos.. not positive, though. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From austad at marketwatch.com Tue May 8 11:19:33 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 802.11b, you, and linux Message-ID: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109922@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> I'll probably just put the thing on a DMZ on the firewall and only allow access into the VPN server. That way, if someone connects to it, they will have to connect to the VPN to get internet access, or access to internal machines. I still need a sweet wireless card to play with though. :) > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Dier [mailto:dieman+tclug@ringworld.org] > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 10:05 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] 802.11b, you, and linux > > > * Nate Carlson [010508 09:29]: > > Just set up the 802.11 bridge on one side of a Linux > firewall that doesn't > > let any non-ipsec'd packets through. :) > > Eaiser said than done when your target audience has issues enough > figuring out how to setup ppp, let alone an ipsec tunnel. > > -- > Scott Dier > http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net > > So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant > From austad at marketwatch.com Tue May 8 11:23:57 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 802.11b, you, and linux Message-ID: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109923@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> > Be advised, the BSS mode the Cisco Aironet 340/350 series > *seems* to not > rebroadcast to all associations like a hub, but like a switch. So, > promisc doesn't work. Etherpeek from Wild Packets supports sniffing 802.11, but only with Cisco Aironet cards. Are you sure it doesn't work? We used to have one here, but a former employee seems to have walked off with it. Has anyone gone hunting for open wireless nets around here? Found any? Jay From rechp at thebestisp.com Tue May 8 11:25:06 2001 From: rechp at thebestisp.com (Paul Rech) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] puzzler References: <3AF7F6D7.35CDC403@earthlink.net> <20010508095637.C54609@sorry.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3AF81DE2.ED039DA3@thebestisp.com> That did work. In dmesg, there is a note that apm is disabled - not smp safe. the redhat 6.2 smp kernel had no such problems. Thanks. dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu wrote: > Did you hold the power button in for 3 seconds? That's how to shutdown a > machine aith an ATX power supply if power management doesn't do it for you. > > Gabe > > On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 09:38:31AM -0400, Paul Rech wrote: > > I installed redhat 7.1 on a machine last weekend and now I can't power > > off with the on/off button. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010508/a082a603/attachment.htm From simeonuj at eetc.com Tue May 8 11:36:57 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Laptop Lanparty References: Message-ID: <3AF82094.B40DFB17@eetc.com> If only I had a laptop that would handle Quake 2. I would love to come and beat the hell out of you. :-) sim Ben Kochie wrote: > I'm holding a laptop lanparty at Plan B coffee tomorow night at 7:00pm. > the game will be quake2, which runs in linux :) let me know if you are > interested in going, it's not the largest place there is.. i'd say there's > room for about 10 people to play From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Tue May 8 11:46:51 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] puzzler In-Reply-To: <3AF80D94.3D561F4C@ltiflex.com>; from administrator@ltiflex.com on Tue, May 08, 2001 at 10:15:32AM -0500 References: <3AF7F6D7.35CDC403@earthlink.net> <3AF80D94.3D561F4C@ltiflex.com> Message-ID: <20010508114651.K4648@ringworld.org> * Andy Zbikowski [010508 11:19]: > To do an auto poweroff in linux, you'll need to enable APM, at least use APM No, APM is not usable on smp+linux. ACPI is what is needed for this. Works to powerdown my smp box with 2.4.4 APM is all there is in win98, ACPI doesn't exist there. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010508/311a24da/attachment.pgp From simeonuj at eetc.com Tue May 8 11:49:14 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] puzzler References: <3AF7F6D7.35CDC403@earthlink.net> <20010508095637.C54609@sorry.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3AF82374.E4A12D1D@eetc.com> That sounds like the problem with the power button to me. I worked on a few linux boxes with ATX. It is kind of a pain when you hit the power button and the computer restarts. Especially when you get the wrong type of ram and your trying to shut it down so you don't fry the chips. You have to sit there and listen to the damn thing beep ( REALLY LOUDLY ) for 7 seconds. I've had to hold it down anywhere from 3 to 7 seconds. 7 seems to be the max on any computer I've ever worked on though. Maybe you can set it in your bios depending on how new the computer is. > CTRL-ALT-DEL does nothing, also. Doesn't shut the computer down/restart? Does it do anything? This is set in /etc/inittab. This section should be in there somewhere. ca::ctrlaltdel:/sbin/shutdown -t5 -r now HTH sim dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu wrote: > Did you hold the power button in for 3 seconds? That's how to shutdown a > machine aith an ATX power supply if power management doesn't do it for you. > > Gabe From jacque at fruitioninc.com Tue May 8 10:51:42 2001 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting, Thursday the 10th! Message-ID: Allright! This week's beer meeting is going to be at Vine Park Pub and Beer Garden in beautiful St. Paul. They have great brew. I mean GRATE. The Walnut Brown Ale is supa-tasty (http://www.vinepark.com/pubbrews.html) Our reservations are non-smoking...we'll be on the patio if its nice out. (Yes, that bright light in the sky is called the Sun). I believe that you underage kids are allowed until 9pm. All the details here: http://www.mn-linux.org/beermeeting/ See you there! ~jacque From ben at nerp.net Tue May 8 12:12:52 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Laptop Lanparty In-Reply-To: <3AF82094.B40DFB17@eetc.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- awww.. well.. that's why i chose quake2.. it plays well on the 300mhz laptops.. and has some nice mods Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Tue, 8 May 2001, Simeon Johnston wrote: > If only I had a laptop that would handle Quake 2. I would love to come and > beat the hell out of you. :-) > > sim > > Ben Kochie wrote: > > > I'm holding a laptop lanparty at Plan B coffee tomorow night at 7:00pm. > > the game will be quake2, which runs in linux :) let me know if you are > > interested in going, it's not the largest place there is.. i'd say there's > > room for about 10 people to play > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOvgpFctpDhsSpvgtAQFdpAP/fKy9AKd/8hcuazJ2xVaeWC07XZKAfRGj x0VfB2hp20RlVgwZkmf/5Yzi+x+LITrDc/J7WX6j3NpG19FYJJg69m4ns0iSYasV AtwWtydH18q0wTq84o5DdFh4IcwVOlvCI81RIiAuRRi26Z5+1NCXfRm0SGVIQZWk 0WIRIh08aNk= =1l8g -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jacque at fruitioninc.com Tue May 8 10:51:42 2001 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] Beer Meeting, Thursday the 10th! Message-ID: Allright! This week's beer meeting is going to be at Vine Park Pub and Beer Garden in beautiful St. Paul. They have great brew. I mean GRATE. The Walnut Brown Ale is supa-tasty (http://www.vinepark.com/pubbrews.html) Our reservations are non-smoking...we'll be on the patio if its nice out. (Yes, that bright light in the sky is called the Sun). I believe that you underage kids are allowed until 9pm. All the details here: http://www.mn-linux.org/beermeeting/ See you there! ~jacque _______________________________________________ tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce From austad at marketwatch.com Tue May 8 12:38:41 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] puzzler Message-ID: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109924@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> > > CTRL-ALT-DEL does nothing, also. > > Doesn't shut the computer down/restart? Does it do anything? > This is set in /etc/inittab. This section should be in there > somewhere. > > ca::ctrlaltdel:/sbin/shutdown -t5 -r now That's a bad idea for those of use who regularly have to use windows. You have to do a ctrl-alt-del to login, and sometimes those bad habits carry over. Or sometimes you type on the wrong keyboard if you have your windows box near your linux box. From mglaser at mn.mediaone.net Tue May 8 13:08:13 2001 From: mglaser at mn.mediaone.net (Michael Glaser) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting, Thursday the 10th! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200105081808.f48I8n118794@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> > Our reservations are non-smoking...we'll be on the patio if its nice out. > (Yes, that bright light in the sky is called the Sun). I believe that you > underage kids are allowed until 9pm. > > All the details here: http://www.mn-linux.org/beermeeting/ Jacque, do you know if there is parking available?? I didn't see it mentioned at their web site. I am hoping that I can stop by. Mike From simeonuj at eetc.com Tue May 8 14:50:04 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Key combo's and Linux Message-ID: <3AF84DE6.6B68ECBA@eetc.com> I have a question that has been bothering me for some time. You can map Control Alt Delete to a command. How do you map other key combos to other commands? For instance. Control Alt "Your Key here" would cancel the reboot/shutdown. Or could be set to log out ( a little more difficult since it would have to tell the shell to log out and couldn't be a program ) or to change the keyboard config ( I'm still trying to automate this in the command line ). How do you specify the keys in inittab? Can this be configured within the shell? "Austad, Jay" wrote: > > > CTRL-ALT-DEL does nothing, also. > > > > Doesn't shut the computer down/restart? Does it do anything? > > This is set in /etc/inittab. This section should be in there > > somewhere. > > > > ca::ctrlaltdel:/sbin/shutdown -t5 -r now > > That's a bad idea for those of use who regularly have to use windows. > You > have to do a ctrl-alt-del to login, and sometimes those bad habits > carry > over. Or sometimes you type on the wrong keyboard if you have your > windows > box near your linux box. Ya. I love how they use the common reboot command for logging in. Luckily I only use 98 and don't even have to log in. How's that for security. :-) sim From austad at marketwatch.com Tue May 8 15:20:05 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting, Thursday the 10th! Message-ID: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109926@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> I don't know if they have a lot, if not, meters are only enforced until 4pm or so in St. Paul, so you can park at those for free. Make sure you look at the meter first though, it might be different now over by the Excel center. > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Glaser [mailto:mglaser@mn.mediaone.net] > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 1:08 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting, Thursday the 10th! > > > > Our reservations are non-smoking...we'll be on the patio if > its nice out. > > (Yes, that bright light in the sky is called the Sun). I > believe that you > > underage kids are allowed until 9pm. > > > > All the details here: http://www.mn-linux.org/beermeeting/ > > Jacque, do you know if there is parking available?? I didn't > see it mentioned > at their web site. I am hoping that I can stop by. > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 8 15:05:43 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting, Thursday the 10th! In-Reply-To: <200105081808.f48I8n118794@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 May 2001, Michael Glaser wrote: > > Our reservations are non-smoking...we'll be on the patio if its nice out. > > (Yes, that bright light in the sky is called the Sun). I believe that you > > underage kids are allowed until 9pm. > > > > All the details here: http://www.mn-linux.org/beermeeting/ > > Jacque, do you know if there is parking available?? I didn't see it mentioned > at their web site. I am hoping that I can stop by. I'm not Jacque, but I wouldn't let parking stop you from coming; it can't possibly be a problem. Worst case you'll have to walk a block. Don't try and park further east than Chestnut street. Unless there's a hockey game, we used to roll up the sidewalks at 7:00 in St. Paul. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From jacque at fruitioninc.com Tue May 8 15:17:26 2001 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting, Thursday the 10th! In-Reply-To: <200105081808.f48I8n118794@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: The host said that there shold be plenty of parking on both Chesnut and Walnut street. I recall there being a pay lot across the street on W 7th, but my memory is foggy. > Jacque, do you know if there is parking available?? I didn't see > it mentioned > at their web site. I am hoping that I can stop by. > From simeonuj at eetc.com Tue May 8 15:29:37 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting, Thursday the 10th! References: Message-ID: <3AF85726.1ABD43EE@eetc.com> WOW. That's like 3 minutes away from my house. : ) Too bad I have to work tonight. : ( Probably well past 9:00. sim Jacqueline Urick wrote: > Allright! This week's beer meeting is going to be at Vine Park Pub and Beer > Garden in beautiful St. Paul. They have great brew. I mean GRATE. The Walnut > Brown Ale is supa-tasty > (http://www.vinepark.com/pubbrews.html) > > Our reservations are non-smoking...we'll be on the patio if its nice out. > (Yes, that bright light in the sky is called the Sun). I believe that you > underage kids are allowed until 9pm. > > All the details here: http://www.mn-linux.org/beermeeting/ > > See you there! > > ~jacque > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From m_nassar at yahoo.com Tue May 8 13:14:08 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] puzzler In-Reply-To: <200105081701.f48H1Jk25037@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010508181408.15147.qmail@web10105.mail.yahoo.com> had the same problem with my laptop, found out that i didnt compile in some part of APM (when i get home ill let you know which part) speaking of laptops: my HDD crapped out on me... does anybody here have a 2.5" HDD that he/she is willing to part with? (say around 2.5 gigs?) -munir > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 09:38:31 -0400 > From: Paul Rech > To: "tclug-list@mn-linux.org" > > Subject: [TCLUG] puzzler > Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > I installed redhat 7.1 on a machine last weekend and > now I can't power > off with the on/off button. > > I had redhat 6.2 on the same machine for at least a > year without > trouble. > > Now when I do a shutdown, the on/off button causes > the keyboard lights > to flash but nothing else. > > I have to pull the power cord. > > CTRL-ALT-DEL does nothing, also. > > The reset button does reboot the machine. > And shutdown -r now, works also. > > I dropped out of x-windows and did the shutdown > myself, with same > affect. > > Power management is off in the BIOS. > > I get all the normal shutdown messages: > > halting system > stopping all md devices > power down > > This is a hand built machine with a ASUS dual > celeron 500 mobo (forgot > the model). > It reports the 2.4.2-2smp kernel. > I did not rebuild the kernel. > Nothing remarkable in the machine, just a SCSI CDROM > and two 30GB IDE's. > > Seems fine other than this one problem, so far. > > And Win98 powers down fine. > Even turns off the machine. > > > Any ideas? > > I'd like to keep redhat on one machine, so switching > to Mandrake or > Debian is a last resort. > Those two run fine on all my other boxes, I might > add. ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Tue May 8 13:20:25 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Price Increase In-Reply-To: <5F82C717009DF446AD6C89008A29F3941D620B@MAIL4.corp.isib.net>; from JMiller2@dainrauscher.com on Mon, May 07, 2001 at 12:34:35PM -0500 References: <5F82C717009DF446AD6C89008A29F3941D620B@MAIL4.corp.isib.net> Message-ID: <20010508132025.L4648@ringworld.org> * Miller, John [010507 15:12]: > own your own modem, the rate is 10.00 cheaper. I will have to check out the > cost of buying one. You cant, the program isn't avalible in MN or FL. Bastards. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010508/4fb501f0/attachment.pgp From lxy at cloudnet.com Tue May 8 13:33:37 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] changing user's FROM: address Message-ID: <3af83c01.653d.269167349@cloudnet.com> I manage a sendmail box that until now has housed 2 domains. I set the box up as one domain, and then added another. All my users were sending messages from someuser@domain1 when I wanted them to display someuser@domain2. I added MASQUERADE_AS(domain2) into sendmail.mc and all was well. Now, I've added domain 3 and 4 to this box and of course, everything I send is from someuser@domain2 when I want it to come from someuser@domain4. So I've got 10 users who want to be @domain2, 3 who want to be at domain3 and 5 who want to be at domain4. Is there a good way to manage this in Sendmail? I found some docs on using FEATURE(masquarde_envelope) and FEATURE(genericstable) that appears to do what I want this to do, but I'm not 100% sure. Any help would be mucho appreciated. -Brian From thudak at sistina.com Tue May 8 14:17:04 2001 From: thudak at sistina.com (Tom Hudak) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Rack sliders Message-ID: <20010508141704.B11496@localhost> I recently purchased a couple of machine sliders after giving the sales guy dimensions for my machines etc. Needless to say I'm quite un-impressed, not only did they not recommend rails that would fit the dimensions I specified, they don't line up on screw holes in the machines so I drilled out my own. I don't want to tell some schmuck my dimensions again just to have them screw it up, so I figured someone on the list must have a good amount of rack-based machines etc. and know of a company that manufactures decent quality sliders so my machines aren't screwed directly into the rack itself. This is quite a bummer as I have been waiting for this stuff for a while to get rid of some of the mess in the machine room. Thanks, -- Thomas J. Hudak Systems Administrator Sistina Software Inc. - www.sistina.com Phone: 612.638.0500 x.513 Fax: 612.379.3952 Page: 612.318.1967 Key fingerprint = BEC6 3181 4C9B A7BB AF11 4717 6F85 B346 380D 523E sleep: Command not found - The story of my life... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010508/b9182189/attachment.pgp From dutchman at uswest.net Tue May 8 14:17:14 2001 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: GNOME Application Minimization Message-ID: <3AF8463A.1136665@uswest.net> [TCLUG] GNOME Application Minimization Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) tclug-list@mn-linux.org > [TCLUG] GNOME Application Minimization > > Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) tclug-list@mn-linux.org > You mean it dissappears? Bring up the properties of your tasklist. Uncheck > enable task grouping. Everything reappear? :) Those GNOME people don't > have and Mac converts working for them, no sir... > > If you enable task grouping create a menu panel (if you don't allready > have one) and click on the icon in the upper left to see all your tasks, > or click the downward arrow in your pager. > > If you don't have the tasklist of pager on your panel, well, add them. :) There is no 'enable task grouping' as a propertiy on my Tasklist applet. -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From jsowers at osii.com Tue May 8 15:05:00 2001 From: jsowers at osii.com (Jason Sowers) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] puzzler In-Reply-To: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109924@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: CTRL-ALT-DEL usually is set to reboot as your file shows. Unless the line is commented out it should reboot. Maybe there is a keyboard mapping problem or something. Jason Sowers -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Austad, Jay Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 12:39 PM To: 'tclug-list@mn-linux.org' Subject: RE: [TCLUG] puzzler > > CTRL-ALT-DEL does nothing, also. > > Doesn't shut the computer down/restart? Does it do anything? > This is set in /etc/inittab. This section should be in there > somewhere. > > ca::ctrlaltdel:/sbin/shutdown -t5 -r now That's a bad idea for those of use who regularly have to use windows. You have to do a ctrl-alt-del to login, and sometimes those bad habits carry over. Or sometimes you type on the wrong keyboard if you have your windows box near your linux box. _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From austad at marketwatch.com Tue May 8 17:15:45 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] changing user's FROM: address Message-ID: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109929@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> You want the genericstable. > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian [mailto:lxy@cloudnet.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 1:34 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] changing user's FROM: address > > > I manage a sendmail box that until now has housed 2 domains. > I set the box up as one domain, and then added another. > All > my users were sending messages from someuser@domain1 when I > wanted them to display someuser@domain2. I added > MASQUERADE_AS(domain2) into sendmail.mc and all was well. > Now, I've added domain 3 and 4 to this box and of course, > everything I send is from someuser@domain2 when I want it to > come from someuser@domain4. So I've got 10 users who want > to > be @domain2, 3 who want to be at domain3 and 5 who want to > be > at domain4. Is there a good way to manage this in Sendmail? > I found some docs on using FEATURE(masquarde_envelope) and > FEATURE(genericstable) that appears to do what I want this > to > do, but I'm not 100% sure. Any help would be mucho > appreciated. > > -Brian > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From austad at marketwatch.com Tue May 8 17:17:40 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting, Thursday the 10th! Message-ID: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F10992A@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> > Too bad I have to work tonight. : ( > Probably well past 9:00. It's thursday, not tonight. It's like a 5 minute walk from my place. I may have to head over there. > > sim > > Jacqueline Urick wrote: > > > Allright! This week's beer meeting is going to be at Vine > Park Pub and Beer > > Garden in beautiful St. Paul. They have great brew. I mean > GRATE. The Walnut > > Brown Ale is supa-tasty > > (http://www.vinepark.com/pubbrews.html) > > > > Our reservations are non-smoking...we'll be on the patio if > its nice out. > > (Yes, that bright light in the sky is called the Sun). I > believe that you > > underage kids are allowed until 9pm. > > > > All the details here: http://www.mn-linux.org/beermeeting/ > > > > See you there! > > > > ~jacque > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From blutgens at sistina.com Tue May 8 16:57:22 2001 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting, Thursday the 10th! In-Reply-To: <3AF85726.1ABD43EE@eetc.com>; from simeonuj@eetc.com on Tue, May 08, 2001 at 03:29:37PM -0500 References: <3AF85726.1ABD43EE@eetc.com> Message-ID: <20010508165722.A6058@minime.sistina.com> On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 03:29:37PM -0500, Simeon Johnston wrote: >WOW. That's like 3 minutes away from my house. : ) >Too bad I have to work tonight. : ( >Probably well past 9:00. > Thursday man Thursday. -- Ben Lutgens cell: XXX.XXX.XXXX Sistina Software Inc. work: XXX.XXX.XXXX Mailing list admin / Punching Bag (and sorta sysadmin guy) http://www.sistina.com/ <--- great software http://www.gentoo.org/ <--- great distro Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream <--- perfect error message -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010508/d7f72eaf/attachment.pgp From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 8 19:21:15 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting, Thursday the 10th! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 8 May 2001, Jacqueline Urick wrote: > I recall there being a pay lot across the street on W 7th, but my memory is > foggy. Not directly, but if you stay late enough, you can go across to the Downtowner Cafe for the Cajun breakfast. Or are you thinking of Cosetta's lot? -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From jpschewe at mtu.net Tue May 8 21:13:58 2001 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] USB, visor and linux (FIX!) In-Reply-To: "Bill Layer"'s message of "Mon, 7 May 2001 16:44:42 -0500" References: <20010506195723.745560fc.blayer@qwest.net> <20010507164442.1cc2e3ce.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: "Bill Layer" writes: > On 07 May 2001 15:30:02 -0500 > "Jon Schewe" wrote: > > > Unfortunatly I've got the JE driver compiled in, not the VIA driver and > it's > > still busted. > > > That's the problem - you want the VIA driver, *not* the JE... Ok, got it in. I can now backup my visor just fine. However when I try and install anything pilot-xfer just hangs and the visor times out. I really don't want to go back to 2.2.x, but I might have to at this rate. -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From seg at haxxed.com Tue May 8 21:21:46 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] puzzler References: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109924@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <3AF8A9BA.831A6E05@haxxed.com> "Austad, Jay" wrote: > > > > CTRL-ALT-DEL does nothing, also. > > > > Doesn't shut the computer down/restart? Does it do anything? > > This is set in /etc/inittab. This section shou-r now d be in there > > somewhere. > > > > ca::ctrlaltdel:/sbin/shutdown -t5 -r now > > That's a bad idea for those of use who regularly have to use windows. You > have to do a ctrl-alt-del to login, and sometimes those bad habits carry > over. Or sometimes you type on the wrong keyboard if you have your windows > box near your linux box. On all my server boxen I have something like: ca::ctrlaltdel:/sbin/shutdown -k now "Some schmuck hit ctrl-alt-del" Note the -k just sends the message to everyone. And take in to consideration the advantages of having any random person who can find the keyboard to reboot your machine vs. not. Someday you might need a random tape monkey to shut down or reset your box... From ben at nerp.net Tue May 8 22:41:33 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] puzzler In-Reply-To: <3AF8A9BA.831A6E05@haxxed.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- my old roomie, used to have our router box keyboard in the under-keyboard drawer on his desk, but he normaly used his windows box keyboard on the top of the desk.. whenever he was working on both boxes, he'd 3-finger the linux box by mistake.. so i changed the inittab to do ca::ctrlaltdel:/bin/echo "wrong keyboard, dumbass" Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Tue, 8 May 2001, Callum Lerwick wrote: > "Austad, Jay" wrote: > > > > > > CTRL-ALT-DEL does nothing, also. > > > > > > Doesn't shut the computer down/restart? Does it do anything? > > > This is set in /etc/inittab. This section shou-r now d be in there > > > somewhere. > > > > > > ca::ctrlaltdel:/sbin/shutdown -t5 -r now > > > > That's a bad idea for those of use who regularly have to use windows. You > > have to do a ctrl-alt-del to login, and sometimes those bad habits carry > > over. Or sometimes you type on the wrong keyboard if you have your windows > > box near your linux box. > > On all my server boxen I have something like: > > ca::ctrlaltdel:/sbin/shutdown -k now "Some schmuck hit ctrl-alt-del" > > Note the -k just sends the message to everyone. And take in to > consideration the advantages of having any random person who can find > the keyboard to reboot your machine vs. not. Someday you might need a > random tape monkey to shut down or reset your box... > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOvi8b8tpDhsSpvgtAQHYXAQAn/hHfTwk2EZOTYdnlRi4C/5d1K/MhUg5 L+rhwwvX5jO2SBP+caY2+1Ch6pLhtLfTjCqZBEEkNZn695Ct6CnKJ6nO0XxPYdq5 OHTz1rYq6HbWBovvff8UDrSAe1keVoBEPTOn7d8kBApAxslIZ3tjUJ25pRHydctS 1h1jlnrl2AI= =vDyL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rechpj at earthlink.net Tue May 8 23:36:01 2001 From: rechpj at earthlink.net (Paul Rech) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] puzzler References: <3AF7F6D7.35CDC403@earthlink.net> <3AF80D94.3D561F4C@ltiflex.com> Message-ID: <3AF8C931.BC735CA7@earthlink.net> Andy Zbikowski wrote: > > If you're running a SMP box why on earth are you running Windows 98? Get > Windows2000 on there so you can at least use your second processor. :) I'm proud to say, out of 5 machines only one has Windows on it. My Kids games go on that one. > > As for the functionality of the power button, there is often a bios setting > that controls what the powerbutton does. Instant-Off, Delay then off, > suspend, etc. Perhaps it's set to suspend and shouldn't be? But why would this change with an upgrade from 6.2 to 7.1 Redhat? > > -- > Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com > LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH) 763-428-9119 (EX) 132 > 21801 Industrial Blvd | (FX) 763-428-9126 > Rogers, MN 55374 | (PCS) 612-306-6055 > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bargains4u at ourpostbox.com Wed May 9 00:36:17 2001 From: bargains4u at ourpostbox.com (bargains4u@ourpostbox.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New electronic products for your store Message-ID: PM200012:36:17 AM A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 0 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010509/09362fe7/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- We wholesale the nations most unique electronic products at blow-out prices. Everything we carry moves. I've included pictures of some of our top sellers 1) the Personal-Handheld fax machine 2) the Star Trek Universal Remote 3) the Lionel Train Watch 4) the Classic Elvis Phone. If you want a more detailed list of what we carry please let me know. What do you think? Can you see our products in your store? Thank you for your time. Sincerely, Phillip Johnstone President BackDoorBargains From x-word at yahoo.com Wed May 9 07:52:45 2001 From: x-word at yahoo.com (x-word@yahoo.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What is an acrostic? Message-ID: <492.292334.547563@yahoo.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010509/7e03e2bc/attachment.htm From stauffer_james at yahoo.com Wed May 9 06:58:36 2001 From: stauffer_james at yahoo.com (James A. N. Stauffer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What is an acrostic? In-Reply-To: <492.292334.547563@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010509115836.86966.qmail@web11503.mail.yahoo.com> What is the deal with the spam we are getting? What can be done to get rid of it? (Suddenly the sign-up survey mentioned sounds great.) ===== = o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ _____=======_||___ o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | | Stauffer_James | .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | | @yahoo.com | >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|________________| _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o¬o¬o o¬o¬o` 'o¬o o¬o` __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From natecars at real-time.com Wed May 9 09:19:34 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting, Thursday the 10th! In-Reply-To: <20010508165722.A6058@minime.sistina.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 May 2001, Ben Lutgens wrote: > man Thursday. $ man Thursday No manual entry for Thursday *sigh*... idiot ben.. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From esper at sherohman.org Wed May 9 09:30:09 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting, Thursday the 10th! In-Reply-To: ; from natecars@real-time.com on Wed, May 09, 2001 at 09:19:34AM -0500 References: <20010508165722.A6058@minime.sistina.com> Message-ID: <20010509093009.E31965@sherohman.org> On Wed, May 09, 2001 at 09:19:34AM -0500, Nate Carlson wrote: > On Tue, 8 May 2001, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > man Thursday. > > $ man Thursday > No manual entry for Thursday > > *sigh*... idiot ben.. Nice to see I'm not the only one who thought/tried that... -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.1: GCS d? s+: a- C++ UL++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w---$ O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv b+ DI++++ D G e* h+ r y+ From trammell at trammell.dyndns.org Wed May 9 08:57:52 2001 From: trammell at trammell.dyndns.org (John Joseph Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting, Thursday the 10th! Message-ID: <20010509085752.A25296@mn.rr.com> Linux: the lowest form of humor. [ ~ ] man Thursday No manual entry for Thursday [ ~ ] got a light? got: No match. [ ~ ] make love make: don't know how to make love. Stop [ ~ ] -- Never hit anyone with glasses. Instead, use your fist. From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed May 9 09:39:42 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] changing user's FROM: address Message-ID: <3af956ae.58db.269167349@cloudnet.com> Jay says: > You want the genericstable. Brian mumbles: That's what I thought. Just to clarify if I'm reading the docs correctly, the genericstable is processed BEFORE the MASQUERADE_AS, basically meaning that by default, a user will be known as user@MASQUERADE_AS unless explicitly defined in genericstable? From administrator at ltiflex.com Wed May 9 10:35:39 2001 From: administrator at ltiflex.com (Andy Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What is an acrostic? References: <20010509115836.86966.qmail@web11503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3AF963CB.99FF45C7@ltiflex.com> > What is the deal with the spam we are getting? What can be done to get rid > of it? (Suddenly the sign-up survey mentioned sounds great.) I can see it now...user fills out survey, and their first post to the list is "It was Zibby's idea..." then it becomes "It was Zibby's stupid idea..." and then "It was Stupid Zibby's idea..." Oh well, Idiot Ben needs company. :) -- Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH) 763-428-9119 (EX) 132 21801 Industrial Blvd | (FX) 763-428-9126 Rogers, MN 55374 | (PCS) 612-306-6055 From simeonuj at eetc.com Wed May 9 10:53:47 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting, Thursday the 10th! References: <3AF85726.1ABD43EE@eetc.com> <20010508165722.A6058@minime.sistina.com> Message-ID: <3AF9680A.4490AFD8@eetc.com> That's what I meant. Last night I actually went home and fell asleep till around 11:00PM. Not intentionally. I feel pretty good today. :-) sim Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 03:29:37PM -0500, Simeon Johnston wrote: > >WOW. That's like 3 minutes away from my house. : ) > >Too bad I have to work tonight. : ( > >Probably well past 9:00. > > > > Thursday man Thursday. From scottdagastino at yahoo.com Wed May 9 11:07:03 2001 From: scottdagastino at yahoo.com (Scott Dagastino) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What is an acrostic? In-Reply-To: <20010509115836.86966.qmail@web11503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010509160703.43233.qmail@web9603.mail.yahoo.com> Please be aware if you receive an email from the tclug and it is nonsense (in other words, nothing to do with technology or linux), please don't response to it. If everyone responds to it, then you are as guilty as those you sent it. --- "James A. N. Stauffer" wrote: > What is the deal with the spam we are getting? What > can be done to get rid > of it? (Suddenly the sign-up survey mentioned > sounds great.) > > > ===== > = o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ > _____=======_||___ > o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | > | Stauffer_James | > .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | > | @yahoo.com | > >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|________________| > _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o¬o¬o o¬o¬o` > 'o¬o o¬o` > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great > prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From hoesanddough at hotmail.com Wed May 9 13:05:33 2001 From: hoesanddough at hotmail.com (zone zone) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] linux problems Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010509/796e6bfd/attachment.html From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed May 9 14:28:36 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting, Thursday the 10th! In-Reply-To: <3AF9680A.4490AFD8@eetc.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 May 2001, Simeon Johnston wrote: > That's what I meant. > Last night I actually went home and fell asleep till around 11:00PM. Not > intentionally. If you didn't mean to go home, then I'm just glad you weren't behind the wheel when this narcoleptic event happened. Maybe you should see a doctor. :P -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed May 9 15:42:24 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] linux problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 9 May 2001, zone zone wrote: > i was wondering if any of you could help me out with a problem i am > having.? i am using mandrake 7.0 and kde.? when? I try to set up kppp, > when i select my device, it wont recongize my modem.? i am also running > win 98 on a seperate partionion, would this affect it ? please write > back, thank you Internal modem? Linux doesn't support "WinModems" in general, so that might be the deal. Don't get mad at Linux, though, if that _is_ the problem; MS only started them to try and own a market to which they have no claim. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From stauffer_james at yahoo.com Wed May 9 14:35:12 2001 From: stauffer_james at yahoo.com (James A. N. Stauffer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What is an acrostic? In-Reply-To: <20010509160703.43233.qmail@web9603.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010509193512.17712.qmail@web11507.mail.yahoo.com> By respond to it I assume that you mean go to their website or send them an email, but don't include replying to the email. Is that correct? --- Scott Dagastino wrote: > Please be aware if you receive an email from the tclug > and it is nonsense (in other words, nothing to do with > technology or linux), please don't response to it. If > everyone responds to it, then you are as guilty as > those you sent it. > > > --- "James A. N. Stauffer" > wrote: > > What is the deal with the spam we are getting? What > > can be done to get rid > > of it? (Suddenly the sign-up survey mentioned > > sounds great.) ===== = o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ _____=======_||___ o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | | Stauffer_James | .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | | @yahoo.com | >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|________________| _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o¬o¬o o¬o¬o` 'o¬o o¬o` __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Wed May 9 16:10:29 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What is an acrostic? In-Reply-To: <20010509160703.43233.qmail@web9603.mail.yahoo.com>; from scottdagastino@yahoo.com on Wed, May 09, 2001 at 09:07:03AM -0700 References: <20010509115836.86966.qmail@web11503.mail.yahoo.com> <20010509160703.43233.qmail@web9603.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010509161028.S4648@ringworld.org> * Scott Dagastino [010509 14:27]: > Please be aware if you receive an email from the tclug > and it is nonsense (in other words, nothing to do with Yes, because stopping discussion about the plague will make it go away! Wasn't this in a b5 episode on scifi last night? :) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010509/0eed1008/attachment.pgp From kipboe at mediaone.net Wed May 9 16:21:27 2001 From: kipboe at mediaone.net (kip) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting, Thursday the 10th! References: Message-ID: <004f01c0d8ce$01fec3f0$1000a8c0@god> Hello, I'm new here. Just subscribed last night actually. I would love to join in on this beer meeting. Am I welcome to just show up? From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed May 9 17:58:08 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What is an acrostic? Message-ID: <3af9cb80.418e.269167349@cloudnet.com> > Yes, because stopping discussion about the plague will > make it go away! When life gives you spam, you make spaminade. Right? Since this thread is carrying on, I thought I'd actually look it up. According to dictionary.com, an ACROSTIC is: "A poem or series of lines in which certain letters, usually the first in each line, form a name, motto, or message when read in sequence" Now, aren't you glad you got out of bed for that? -Brian From jethro at freakzilla.com Wed May 9 18:41:21 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting, Thursday the 10th! In-Reply-To: <004f01c0d8ce$01fec3f0$1000a8c0@god> Message-ID: Hi, On Wed, 9 May 2001, kip wrote: > Hello, I'm new here. Just subscribed last night actually. I would love to > join in on this beer meeting. Am I welcome to just show up? The rule is that the newest LUG member buys everyone's drinks, so yeah, please show up! (; -Yaron -- From thefishyone at hotmail.com Wed May 9 19:13:08 2001 From: thefishyone at hotmail.com (Pizza of Hut) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Programming with Linux Message-ID: Do any of you programmers out there know of a good resource for learning to program in C under a Linux environment? Also, is there an online resource that any of you know of where I can get a rundown on the myriad of languages available for Linux? I apologize in advance for bringing up DSL again, but could any of you guys recommend a good, relatively cheap DSL provider in the Dakota County area? ---------- The Fishy One's Infinite Wisdom #1: "If a 2000 pound gorilla asks you for your Rolex, by God, you give it to him!" New wisdom every week! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010509/72d943cd/attachment.html From sgrobe at mn.rr.com Wed May 9 20:12:44 2001 From: sgrobe at mn.rr.com (Steve) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What is an acrostic? References: <20010509115836.86966.qmail@web11503.mail.yahoo.com> <3AF963CB.99FF45C7@ltiflex.com> Message-ID: <3AF9EB0C.39C8A62@mn.rr.com> Or... I subscribe to a really cool linux listserver, no spam. Why? (Imagine industrial rock soundtrack, NIN or maybe Disturbed, maybe some Rammstein) We Zibby the spam, Zibby the spam, Zibby the spam, Zibby the spam, We Zibby the spam because we hate it. Zibby the spam, Zibby the spam, Zibby the spam, Zibbied because we don't want it. Zibby the spam, Zibby the spam, Zibby the spam, We will DOS you if you spam us, DOS you if you spam us, we dislike you. Zibby the spam, Zibby the spam, Zibby the spam, Spammers are our enemy, Zibby the spam, Zibby the spam, Zibby the spam, Well, something like that. The previous is the result of 36 hours without sleep, followed by an 11 hour day at work, a litre of Absolut vodka, and a pack of Marlboro's. Crap, I quit smokin' two weeks ago, ooops. Time to buy some more gum. I am not a reliable source of anything...... SG, O.S.D Andy Zbikowski wrote: > > > What is the deal with the spam we are getting? What can be done to get rid > > of it? (Suddenly the sign-up survey mentioned sounds great.) > > I can see it now...user fills out survey, and their first post to the list > is "It was Zibby's idea..." then it becomes "It was Zibby's stupid idea..." > and then "It was Stupid Zibby's idea..." Oh well, Idiot Ben needs company. > :) > > -- > Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com > LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH) 763-428-9119 (EX) 132 > 21801 Industrial Blvd | (FX) 763-428-9126 > Rogers, MN 55374 | (PCS) 612-306-6055 > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Yadda, yadda, yadda.. From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Wed May 9 21:28:28 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Programming with Linux In-Reply-To: ; from thefishyone@hotmail.com on Wed, May 09, 2001 at 07:13:08PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010509212828.T4648@ringworld.org> * Pizza of Hut [010509 20:26]: > Do any of you programmers out there know of a good resource for learning > to program in C under a Linux environment? Also, is there an online As in, POSIX Programming (ie: messing with files, processes, stuff.) or as in programming-in-general, or with gtk+ (or qt even). -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010509/ff3a8850/attachment.pgp From simeonuj at eetc.com Wed May 9 17:13:14 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting, Thursday the 10th! References: Message-ID: <3AF9C0D0.30CEB207@eetc.com> Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > If you didn't mean to go home, then I'm just glad you weren't behind the > wheel when this narcoleptic event happened. Maybe you should see a > doctor. :P Mmmmm.... That was some darn good eat'in. I think I'll just lie down and read a while. Got some time before I can work on anything anyway. 1 paragraph later -- 11:00 PM and no where to go. Damn. I guess I'll go watch the end of a movie then lie down and try to get back to sleep 'TIL 3:00 IN THE MORNING ( last time I looked at the clock ). : -) sim From nate at techie.com Wed May 9 22:13:32 2001 From: nate at techie.com (Nate Straz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Programming with Linux In-Reply-To: ; from thefishyone@hotmail.com on Wed, May 09, 2001 at 07:13:08PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010509221331.A30455@candle.rawstew> On Wed, May 09, 2001 at 07:13:08PM -0500, Pizza of Hut wrote: > Do any of you programmers out there know of a good resource for > learning to program in C under a Linux environment? Also, is there an > online resource that any of you know of where I can get a rundown on > the myriad of languages available for Linux? IMHO, the best book to get up to speed on Linux programming is "Beginning Linux Programming" ISBN 1-861002-97-1. Check it out at your local book store to see if it fits what you want to do. > I apologize in advance for bringing up DSL again, but could any of you > guys recommend a good, relatively cheap DSL provider in the Dakota > County area? TCLUG to atone for the evil deed of bringing the topic of DSL back up> It all depends where you are in Dakota county. The pickings are so slim that you have to pick where to live just to get ANY options. As everyone knows on the list, Dakota county is considered the boonies. Nate From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed May 9 22:34:39 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Programming with Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 9 May 2001, Pizza of Hut wrote: > Do any of you programmers out there know of a good resource for > learning to program in C under a Linux environment? As asked, are you trying to learn C or the Linux environment? http://www.programmersheaven.com/ (according to sim) http://www.ee.mu.oz.au/linux/programming search google, www.linux.org, www.linuxdoc none of these in any particular order. You're asking about a sweater on which it is very easy to find the thread that starts unravelling it. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From jack at jacku.com Wed May 9 23:12:37 2001 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Programming with Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01050923123701.01273@geezer> Disclaimer: I am not a C programmer. My programming on Linux has been scripting with perl, python, and bash. That said, I bought a copy of the MacMillian Linux Programmers Kit (or something similar) if came with an IDE that did Python and tcl along with C and some Dr Dobbs references on CD-ROM. It also contained a copy of Sams "Teach Yourself Linux Programming in 24 hours". Its focused on C and the GNU tools so I set it aside and just used the environment (for a short time and then went to IDLE for my python stuff.) It may be a place to start. If I can dig up the CD-ROMs I might be willing to part with the whole set real cheap. ;-) Jack On Wednesday 09 May 2001 19:13, you wrote: > Do any of you programmers out there know of a good resource for learning to > program in C under a Linux environment? Also, is there an online resource > that any of you know of where I can get a rundown on the myriad of > languages available for Linux? > > I apologize in advance for bringing up DSL again, but could any of you guys > recommend a good, relatively cheap DSL provider in the Dakota County area? > the evil deed of bringing the topic of DSL back up> > > ---------- > The Fishy One's Infinite Wisdom #1: "If a 2000 pound gorilla asks you for > your Rolex, by God, you give it to him!" > > New wisdom every week! ---------------------------------------- Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"; name="Attachment: 1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: ---------------------------------------- From ghettobretto at hotmail.com Wed May 9 22:46:11 2001 From: ghettobretto at hotmail.com (brett astleford) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Programming with Linux References: Message-ID: There are a couple books on c programming for linux/unix, and I hear they are good, havent read them (haven't stepped away from the internet in 3 years) But, there aren't any classes on C programming for unix that I know of... Brett ----- Original Message ----- From: Pizza of Hut To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 7:13 PM Subject: [TCLUG] Programming with Linux Do any of you programmers out there know of a good resource for learning to program in C under a Linux environment? Also, is there an online resource that any of you know of where I can get a rundown on the myriad of languages available for Linux? I apologize in advance for bringing up DSL again, but could any of you guys recommend a good, relatively cheap DSL provider in the Dakota County area? ---------- The Fishy One's Infinite Wisdom #1: "If a 2000 pound gorilla asks you for your Rolex, by God, you give it to him!" New wisdom every week! From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed May 9 22:27:26 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What is an acrostic? In-Reply-To: <3AF9EB0C.39C8A62@mn.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 May 2001, Steve wrote: > I am not a reliable source of anything...... I don't know about that. ;) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed May 9 22:47:01 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Programming with Linux In-Reply-To: <20010509221331.A30455@candle.rawstew> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 May 2001, Nate Straz wrote: > It all depends where you are in Dakota county. The pickings are so slim > that you have to pick where to live just to get ANY options. As > everyone knows on the list, Dakota county is considered the boonies. And that was before tornados may or may not have taken down any lines! -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From thefishyone at hotmail.com Wed May 9 20:19:54 2001 From: thefishyone at hotmail.com (Pizza of Hut) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Programming with Linux Message-ID: Do any of you programmers out there know of a good resource for learning to program in C under a Linux environment? Also, is there an online resource that any of you know of where I can get a rundown on the myriad of languages available for Linux? I apologize in advance for bringing up DSL again, but could any of you guys recommend a good, relatively cheap DSL provider in the Dakota County area? ---------- The Fishy One's Infinite Wisdom #1: "If a 2000 pound gorilla asks you for your Rolex, by God, you give it to him!" New wisdom every week! From thefishyone at hotmail.com Wed May 9 20:21:33 2001 From: thefishyone at hotmail.com (Matt Waters) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Programming with Linux Message-ID: Do any of you programmers out there know of a good resource for learning to program in C under a Linux environment? Also, is there an online resource that any of you know of where I can get a rundown on the myriad of languages available for Linux? I apologize in advance for bringing up DSL again, but could any of you guys recommend a good, relatively cheap DSL provider in the Dakota County area? ---------- The Fishy One's Infinite Wisdom #1: "If a 2000 pound gorilla asks you for your Rolex, by God, you give it to him!" New wisdom every week! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From tanner at real-time.com Wed May 9 21:00:29 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Evolution, Private, Confidential, Public Message-ID: <20010509210029.C4858@real-time.com> Anyone able to get evolution to share calendaring info? I see I can mark something public, but how to I "share" that with someone? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From esper at sherohman.org Wed May 9 21:01:38 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Programming with Linux In-Reply-To: ; from thefishyone@hotmail.com on Wed, May 09, 2001 at 07:13:08PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010509210138.A4223@sherohman.org> On Wed, May 09, 2001 at 07:13:08PM -0500, Pizza of Hut wrote: > Do any of you programmers out there know of a good resource for learning > to program in C under a Linux environment? (Please wrap your lines at <80 characters in the future.) Personally, I like Beginning Linux Programming, by Neil Matthew & Richard Stones, published by Wrox Press. Wrox also prints a pseudo-sequel, Professional Linux Programming, which I've bought but haven't gotten around to reading yet. -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.1: GCS d? s+: a- C++ UL++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w---$ O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv b+ DI++++ D G e* h+ r y+ From stauffer_james at yahoo.com Thu May 10 06:50:36 2001 From: stauffer_james at yahoo.com (James A. N. Stauffer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dakota DSL (Was: Programming with Linux) In-Reply-To: <20010509221331.A30455@candle.rawstew> Message-ID: <20010510115036.85887.qmail@web11504.mail.yahoo.com> I live an hour east of The Cities which is even farther into the boonies, but I will soon have 2 cable ISP choices! --- Nate Straz wrote: > > I apologize in advance for bringing up DSL again, but could any of you > > guys recommend a good, relatively cheap DSL provider in the Dakota > > County area? > TCLUG to atone for the evil deed of bringing the topic of DSL back up> > > It all depends where you are in Dakota county. The pickings are so slim > that you have to pick where to live just to get ANY options. As > everyone knows on the list, Dakota county is considered the boonies. ===== = o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ _____=======_||___ o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | | Stauffer_James | .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | | @yahoo.com | >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|________________| _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o¬o¬o o¬o¬o` 'o¬o o¬o` __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From scottdagastino at yahoo.com Thu May 10 07:40:53 2001 From: scottdagastino at yahoo.com (Scott Dagastino) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Programming with Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010510124053.36973.qmail@web9608.mail.yahoo.com> Hello Matt, I noticed know one answered about the DSL in Dakota county. Right now, if you have frontier communications for phone service, you can only go through them for DSL and they charge up the wazoo for it. Otherwise than that, roadrunner is good. Have you checked out cable modem. That is pretty good as well. --- Matt Waters wrote: > Do any of you programmers out there know of a good > resource for learning to > program in C under a Linux environment? Also, is > there an online resource > that any of you know of where I can get a rundown on > the myriad of languages > available for Linux? > > I apologize in advance for bringing up DSL again, > but could any of you guys > recommend a good, relatively cheap DSL provider in > the Dakota County area? > of TCLUG to atone for > the evil deed of bringing the topic of DSL back up> > > ---------- > The Fishy One's Infinite Wisdom #1: "If a 2000 pound > gorilla asks you for > your Rolex, by God, you give it to him!" > > New wisdom every week! > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From dutchman at uswest.net Thu May 10 08:16:49 2001 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: DSL in Dakota County References: <20010510124053.36973.qmail@web9608.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3AFA94C1.60C98FE@uswest.net> Scott Dagastino wrote: > > Hello Matt, > > I noticed know one answered about the DSL in Dakota > county. Right now, if you have frontier > communications for phone service, you can only go > through them for DSL and they charge up the wazoo for > it. Otherwise than that, roadrunner is good. Have > you checked out cable modem. That is pretty good as > well. Frontier's LightingLink DSL service is not as prevalent as they like you to believe. QWest is nonexistent and Northpoint was an option but no longer. If you have Charter Communications as a cable company, they offer cable modem service. I haven't heard any communities around with RoadRunner. -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From simeonuj at eetc.com Thu May 10 08:39:10 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Programming with Linux References: Message-ID: <3AFA99FB.D01E9713@eetc.com> Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On Wed, 9 May 2001, Pizza of Hut wrote: > > > Do any of you programmers out there know of a good resource for > > learning to program in C under a Linux environment? > > As asked, are you trying to learn C or the Linux environment? > > http://www.programmersheaven.com/ (according to sim) ( Who doesn't seem to know his *ss from his .... At least when it comes to programming .... OKAY, this applies to pretty much everything ) Good resource for source ( not all of them are free but most are ) and tutorials. Also check out: http://www.1001tutorials.com/ Has some good stuff. > http://www.ee.mu.oz.au/linux/programming Looks good. Never been here before. > search google, www.linux.org, www.linuxdoc none of these in any particular > order. sim From jonathankl_2001 at yahoo.com Thu May 10 09:43:24 2001 From: jonathankl_2001 at yahoo.com (Jonathan Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Test Message-ID: <20010510144324.77535.qmail@web13401.mail.yahoo.com> Sorry for the interuption, checking out the newly added domain name and some reply-to stuff...... ===== -Jonathan A. Kline -jonathankl@gidzero.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From SO'Connor at benchmarklearning.com Thu May 10 10:24:25 2001 From: SO'Connor at benchmarklearning.com (Stephen O'Connor) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Did someone leave a coat at the last TCLUG meeting? Message-ID: <0391252CAC99054A87F91EDB2397189B0C1BAF@fsedn15.BenchmarkLearning.com> I am now in possession of a beautiful coat which may or may not have been left at the last TCLUG meeting at Benchmark. If you are missing your coat, all you have to do is successfully describe the coat, and if your name matches the gas card receipt in the pocket, it's yours. Stephen O'Connor Benchmark Learning From jacque at fruitioninc.com Thu May 10 10:29:40 2001 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Reminder: Beer Meeting Tonight!! Message-ID: Beer meeting tonight at the Vine Park Pub in St. Paul. http://www.mn-linux.org/beermeeting See you there! Jacque From chewie at wookimus.net Thu May 10 10:38:52 2001 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Programming with Linux In-Reply-To: ; from thefishyone@hotmail.com on Wed, May 09, 2001 at 07:13:08PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010510103852.C9717@wookimus.net> On Wed, May 09, 2001 at 07:13:08PM -0500, Pizza of Hut wrote: > Do any of you programmers out there know of a good resource for > learning to program in C under a Linux environment? Also, is there > an online resource that any of you know of where I can get a rundown > on the myriad of languages available for Linux? The all time C Bible: B. W. Kernighan & D. M. Ritchie, "The C Programming Language", 2nd Ed. 1988, 1978, Prentice Hall P T R. ISBN 0-13-110370-9 ISBN 0-13-110370-8 (paperback) Programming on Linux in C is like programming in any other platform in C. If you're using Debian, do an apt-get on the following packages: make binutils glibc-doc manpages-dev libtool indent astyle patch strace cvs gettext gnu-standards gcc-2.9.5 (or greater) info That should get you started. info(1) docs provide A LOT OF INFO! Read them. I have found this resource INVALUABLE over the years. Section 3 manpages are useful in that you get ALL of the glibc functions and some of the structures described in these manpages. The book I suggested above is required reading of ANY college student, regardless of the platform their professors choose. I'm quite happy with the book. It may look small and a bit arcane, but there's some good solid C foundations in it. Read it and do the exercises. Don't buy the solutions book until you've gone through the book at least once. You will learn a lot of good programming practices if you use this as your primary resource. I find the presence of the aforementioned book on the shelves or desk, earmarked and worn, a indication of a good C programmer. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Key fingerprint = B4AB D627 9CBD 687E 7A31 1950 0CC7 0B18 206C 5AFD -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010510/2e80c6f1/attachment.pgp From simeonuj at eetc.com Thu May 10 10:58:44 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux partition resizing -- HELP Message-ID: <3AFABAA3.3434C21F@eetc.com> I am trying to resize a partition on my HD. Having some trouble. I don't want to go out and buy Partition Magic. I am trying to use FIPS but I can only find the DOS binary. Is there a linux binary or is this DOS only? I don't have a DOS parition. I suppose I might be able to find a boot disk but would rather have a linux version on the computer for later use anyway. Which version of FIPS supports resizing of ext2 partitions? I found 2.0 but don't know if that is the most recent version. I have looked everywhere but haven't found anything. sim From dutchman at uswest.net Thu May 10 11:59:00 2001 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GEdit Message-ID: <989513946.5966.0.camel@fedaykin> Every file I open with GEdit (0.9.5) is tagged readonly. Does anybody know if this is a feature I can turn off or a bug? I hunted around the preferences and could not find anything. -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Thu May 10 12:25:08 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux partition resizing -- HELP In-Reply-To: <3AFABAA3.3434C21F@eetc.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 May 2001, Simeon Johnston wrote: > I am trying to resize a partition on my HD. Having some trouble. > I don't want to go out and buy Partition Magic. I am trying to use FIPS > but I can only find the DOS binary. Is there a linux binary or is this > DOS only? I've gotten away with this using fdisk or cfdisk. cfdisk is certainly easier to use, and I understand (hearsay) that it is less likely to mung things up. Don't *expect* data to survive however you do it, and almost never if you make a partition smaller. Others may have better info. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From austad at marketwatch.com Thu May 10 12:14:53 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ghetto Ghost Message-ID: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109941@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> So, since I don't have a copy of ghost, and I don't think ghost works with Linux anyway, I used a couple of commands which did the same thing. I need to clone one of my machines to about 10 other ones. And because of the level of customization, it would take forever to do by hand. So, I downloaded Tom's root boot floppy from http://www.toms.net. The machine I needed to clone was booted in read-only mode, it had an ip of 10.10.220.53. I then booted the other machine with Tom's root boot disk and gave it the ip 10.10.220.21. On the one I wanted to clone to, I did: nc -l -n -v -p 6666 > /dev/sda On the machine I wanted to clone from, I did: cat /dev/sda | nc -n -v 10.10.220.21 6666 After a couple of hours, the command finished. I unplugged the network cable from the new machine (since it was a clone with the same ip as the other one), and rebooted. It cloned the MBR, the partition table, and all of the data. The machine seems to work perfectly. I changed the ip on it, and stuck it into production and it's been performing flawlessly all morning. Jay From administrator at ltiflex.com Thu May 10 13:19:11 2001 From: administrator at ltiflex.com (Andy Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux partition resizing -- HELP References: <3AFABAA3.3434C21F@eetc.com> Message-ID: <3AFADB9F.D11E3E81@ltiflex.com> I belive fips is dos only. Try: http://ext2resize.sourceforge.net/ If you need a Win9X boot disk: http://www.ringworld.org/~zibby/disks -- Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH) 763-428-9119 (EX) 132 21801 Industrial Blvd | (FX) 763-428-9126 Rogers, MN 55374 | (PCS) 612-306-6055 From ben at nerp.net Thu May 10 14:48:43 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] lanparty Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- ok.. I've been thinking about putting together a medium sized lanparty, and I'm looking for people to help in the planing, setup, etc. ideas so far: Mid-large sized: 50-100 people, depending on location found. Location: U of M campus.. I know there's atleast a few ACM, and other U of M people around on the list. (and I can try and throw some of my IMA weight around) Cost: something small, free if possible. I wouldn't mind making this an official TCLUG thing. Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOvrwnctpDhsSpvgtAQEUbgQApbIQKZBi9JTx/ttw3R0Rxh+KNsHBPM9d 55INVpXcE+dbYw8GvBuT7RI8BGf6XW4RqWcdQ0OkSd+rLQ6qBM1SuT50gDxa6Gxc /B+N2dGLXbcWGQlC6wS7MrWDctWjaeLjvAQcu7LYSkGCQElmpw2EFcuAYeLFcEK7 gorkL+A96kM= =mmEK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dcsherman at qwest.net Thu May 10 15:34:16 2001 From: dcsherman at qwest.net (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GEdit In-Reply-To: <989513946.5966.0.camel@fedaykin> References: <989513946.5966.0.camel@fedaykin> Message-ID: <01051015341600.05311@dedannshae.thuria.org> GEdit 0.9.0 works fine for me. Have you verified your permissions to the file(s) you are opening? Dave On Thursday 10 May 2001 11:59, thus spake Perry Hoekstra: > Every file I open with GEdit (0.9.5) is tagged readonly. Does anybody > know if this is a feature I can turn off or a bug? I hunted around the > preferences and could not find anything. From thefishyone at hotmail.com Thu May 10 14:56:46 2001 From: thefishyone at hotmail.com (Matt Waters) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apology Message-ID: I just noticed that my e-mail that I sent to the list went out 3 times. This is because Outlook Express sucks fat sweaty donkey balls (/me was forbidden by family to install Linux until end of school year. =( ), along with the fact that in my infinite density I thought that Outlook Express was queing my e-mail when, in fact, it was sending it. I was not trying to spam the list. I apologize for being dense and hope that none of you are too angry about it. If it really got you pissed off that much, I'll buy you a beer at tonight's beer meeting. =) ---------- The Fishy One's Infinite Wisdom #1: "If a 2000 pound gorilla asks you for your Rolex, by God, you give it to him!" New wisdom every week! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From thefishyone at hotmail.com Thu May 10 15:02:50 2001 From: thefishyone at hotmail.com (Matt Waters) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Programming with Linux Message-ID: >From: Scott Dier >Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org >To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org >Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Programming with Linux >Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 21:28:28 -0500 > >* Pizza of Hut [010509 20:26]: > > Do any of you programmers out there know of a good resource for >learning > > to program in C under a Linux environment? Also, is there an online > >As in, POSIX Programming (ie: messing with files, processes, stuff.) or >as in programming-in-general, or with gtk+ (or qt even). Just programming in general. Not quite ready for system stuff yet. ---------- The Fishy One's Infinite Wisdom #1: "If a 2000 pound gorilla asks you for your Rolex, by God, you give it to him!" New wisdom every week! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From tanner at real-time.com Thu May 10 16:18:56 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] www.xfree86.org dead? Message-ID: <20010510161856.S31747@real-time.com> Anyone get to xfree86.org? I can trace, ping, but not http connectivity. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Thu May 10 17:01:23 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Programming with Linux Message-ID: I like these books: C: The Complete Reference http://www.bookpool.com/.x/qehxe2qzrm/sm/0072121246 Advanced Programming in the UNIX Environment http://www.bookpool.com/.x/qehxe2egc6/sm/0201563177 From administrator at ltiflex.com Thu May 10 13:21:06 2001 From: administrator at ltiflex.com (Andy Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GEdit References: <989513946.5966.0.camel@fedaykin> Message-ID: <3AFADC12.D2486D5A@ltiflex.com> Do you have write access to the file in the first place? Should you have write access to the file? chmod 644 file? Use gvim or xemacs instead? Did you check the bugs for GEdit on gnome.org? -- Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH) 763-428-9119 (EX) 132 21801 Industrial Blvd | (FX) 763-428-9126 Rogers, MN 55374 | (PCS) 612-306-6055 From destef at destef.com Thu May 10 18:58:25 2001 From: destef at destef.com (Jason DeStefano) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] lanparty In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200105102358.f4ANw9T26658@ernie.destef.com> Any particular games you have in mind? Anyone out there play counterstrike? At 02:48 PM 5/10/01 -0500, you wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >ok.. I've been thinking about putting together a medium sized lanparty, >and I'm looking for people to help in the planing, setup, etc. > >ideas so far: > >Mid-large sized: 50-100 people, depending on location found. > >Location: U of M campus.. I know there's atleast a few ACM, and other U >of M people around on the list. (and I can try and throw some of my IMA >weight around) > >Cost: something small, free if possible. > >I wouldn't mind making this an official TCLUG thing. > >Thank You, > Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) > > "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: 2.6.3ia >Charset: noconv > >iQCVAwUBOvrwnctpDhsSpvgtAQEUbgQApbIQKZBi9JTx/ttw3R0Rxh+KNsHBPM9d >55INVpXcE+dbYw8GvBuT7RI8BGf6XW4RqWcdQ0OkSd+rLQ6qBM1SuT50gDxa6Gxc >/B+N2dGLXbcWGQlC6wS7MrWDctWjaeLjvAQcu7LYSkGCQElmpw2EFcuAYeLFcEK7 >gorkL+A96kM= >=mmEK >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > >_______________________________________________ >tclug-list mailing list >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From calv0016 at tc.umn.edu Thu May 10 19:50:27 2001 From: calv0016 at tc.umn.edu (Andrew Calvin) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Address Book Message-ID: <000c01c0d9b4$5ee9b890$b0ce99d0@helixx> Hey all - I'm moving my email over to my Mandrake 8/KDE2.1.1 box, and am wondering what people use for an email program. I'm currently playing with Kmail, although this program seems to be rather limited, especially in the address book dept. Any suggestions for a good email program (and additional address book program if needed) would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Andrew Calvin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010510/b1a9d9fa/attachment.htm From ssinn at qwest.net Thu May 10 13:01:02 2001 From: ssinn at qwest.net (Spencer J Sinn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Programming with Linux References: <3AFA99FB.D01E9713@eetc.com> Message-ID: <3AFAD75E.7C0A9F59@qwest.net> Since no one has mentioned it, try http://www.informit.com They have free books on all good computer stuff and a Linux infobase. From mjschack at hotmail.com Thu May 10 20:48:18 2001 From: mjschack at hotmail.com (Michael Schack) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Programming with Linux Message-ID: If it's general C you're looking for, I used a book in a procedural programming class at the U of M called, "Applications Programming in ANSI C" by Richard Johnsonbaugh and Martin Kalin. In addition to this book, I used a Schaum Outline called "Programming with C." Both books are fairly good at covering ANSI C but the first one moves at a more rapid pace and seems to have a better logic to it. For instance, the first book covers arrays with some depth in chapter six, whereas the second covers them in chapter nine and there aren't too many chapters after that. I think the first book will be there for you when you need more advanced skills but the second won't. The first one, however, has a little steeper learning curve and I would say it works very well in a class-room setting. If you're looking to do a lot of useful stuff in a UNIX right away, my personal opinion is that you'll get up to speed quicker with PERL. C is a great language but is also a difficult language to learn for some. I'm in no sense of the word a talented C programmer(same goes for PERL), but I've found PERL easier to do stuff I need to do because it's so flexible. Some of the best books I've found on PERL are from O'Reilly. For a beginning PERL programmer, I wouldn't recommend the famous Camel book. It does have example code and is great if your feet are already wet, but if you're trying to learn it step by step, I would get the Learning PERL book first. PERL also supports, borrows from, and resembles C quite a bit, so you'll gain knowledge of it as well. I'm a language neutral type of person. Certain tasks seem to work better with different languages. For instance, if I need to interactively drive some applications, I get the job done quickly with Expect. If I need more advanced handling, I might use PERL to do the same thing. What I like about PERL is my code seems more easily ported than other languages. I'm a Winblows admin type guy, so I might write something in a unix environment and then decide to use it in microsquish land. I think no matter which languages or books you ultimately choose and whatever tasks you try to fulfill, the most important thing is to understand the logic that drives the code. If you get to the point where you're developing intricate algorithms, a good book is "The Algorithm Design Manual" by Skiena. I hope my humble ramblings help. Michael Schack > >>From: Scott Dier >>Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Programming with Linux >>Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 21:28:28 -0500 >> >>* Pizza of Hut [010509 20:26]: >> > Do any of you programmers out there know of a good resource for >>learning >> > to program in C under a Linux environment? Also, is there an online >> >>As in, POSIX Programming (ie: messing with files, processes, stuff.) or >>as in programming-in-general, or with gtk+ (or qt even). > >Just programming in general. Not quite ready for system stuff yet. > >---------- >The Fishy One's Infinite Wisdom #1: "If a 2000 pound gorilla asks you for >your Rolex, by God, you give it to him!" > >New wisdom every week! > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > >_______________________________________________ >tclug-list mailing list >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jethro at freakzilla.com Thu May 10 20:58:54 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Address Book In-Reply-To: <000c01c0d9b4$5ee9b890$b0ce99d0@helixx> Message-ID: Hi, On Thu, 10 May 2001, Andrew Calvin wrote: > Hey all - I'm moving my email over to my Mandrake 8/KDE2.1.1 box, and am wondering what people use for an email program. I'm currently playing with Kmail, although this program seems to be rather limited, especially in the address book dept. Any suggestions for a good email program (and additional address book program if needed) would be greatly appreciated. Well, anything's better thatn the Outlook Express you're using now - except maybe Outlook. I think Pine and Mutt are the most popular mail readers. I can only speak for Pine - it's great, has a decent addressbook which supports ldap. -Yaron -- From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu May 10 21:02:06 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] www.xfree86.org dead? In-Reply-To: <20010510161856.S31747@real-time.com> References: <20010510161856.S31747@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010510210206.1ec4065d.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Bob Tanner wrote: > > Anyone get to xfree86.org? > > I can trace, ping, but not http connectivity. I can't get there right now either. Fortunately, the stuff I was looking for was easily found in Google's cache ;-) -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Why isn't the word / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ `phonetically' spelled \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) with an `f'? [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From simeonuj at eetc.com Thu May 10 21:01:25 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] lanparty References: <200105102358.f4ANw9T26658@ernie.destef.com> Message-ID: <3AFB47F4.E5FF2015@eetc.com> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGH!!! I hate having a crappy video card. Can't play graphic intensive games worth a crap. Anyone up for some Spectre on some old 68k macs :-) Jason DeStefano wrote: > Any particular games you have in mind? Anyone out there > play counterstrike? I have been looking at this. Looks cool. Havn't played it yet though. sim From scanman at mninter.net Thu May 10 21:38:39 2001 From: scanman at mninter.net (ScanMan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] www.xfree86.org dead? In-Reply-To: <20010510161856.S31747@real-time.com> References: <20010510161856.S31747@real-time.com> Message-ID: <01051021385301.12566@scanman.localhost.localdomain> I can't access it either. On Thu, 10 May 2001, you wrote: > Anyone get to xfree86.org? > > I can trace, ping, but not http connectivity. > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ben at nerp.net Thu May 10 13:40:02 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux partition resizing -- HELP In-Reply-To: <3AFABAA3.3434C21F@eetc.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- the only utility that I know of to re-size ext2 filesystems is a linux binary called ext2resize http://ext2resize.sourceforge.net/ Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Thu, 10 May 2001, Simeon Johnston wrote: > I am trying to resize a partition on my HD. Having some trouble. > I don't want to go out and buy Partition Magic. I am trying to use FIPS > but I can only find the DOS binary. Is there a linux binary or is this > DOS only? > I don't have a DOS parition. I suppose I might be able to find a boot > disk but would rather have a linux version on the computer for later use > anyway. > Which version of FIPS supports resizing of ext2 partitions? I found 2.0 > but don't know if that is the most recent version. > I have looked everywhere but haven't found anything. > > sim > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOvrgg8tpDhsSpvgtAQGfGgQAoFkDgOuWn56pHQLmnB4RmDufrMOQUBeB WdzkEYzLckkTPQmXVahvTL1McVCSWuDl8pR6xneZj42r/dTVhKsV8VwrWLyWBgfq GvOViOzaAoTsfk/Q8U+0bk8+Lf8dzoxdt82hFyNbAdcWZrKy5sgOCr0xHEHHLM3i o3RFtRIuSkM= =O9xF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Fri May 11 02:44:45 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] lanparty In-Reply-To: <3AFB47F4.E5FF2015@eetc.com>; from simeonuj@eetc.com on Thu, May 10, 2001 at 09:01:25PM -0500 References: <200105102358.f4ANw9T26658@ernie.destef.com> <3AFB47F4.E5FF2015@eetc.com> Message-ID: <20010511024444.V4648@ringworld.org> * Simeon Johnston [010511 01:08]: > AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGH!!! > I hate having a crappy video card. Can't play graphic intensive games worth Geforce 2 MX. 100$ or so, cheap, and a decent card. The closed source (grr) drivers are actually really good. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010511/68bddfbe/attachment.pgp From lxy at cloudnet.com Thu May 10 16:06:46 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux partition resizing -- HELP Message-ID: <3afb02e6.6c.269167349@cloudnet.com> > I am trying to resize a partition on my HD. Having some > trouble. > I don't want to go out and buy Partition Magic. Use GNU parted. http://www.gnu.org/software/parted/ it's basically a command line version of Partition Magic but much more free (beer and speech). -Brian From MAJensen222 at aol.com Thu May 10 16:20:53 2001 From: MAJensen222 at aol.com (MAJensen222@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] lanparty Message-ID: <73.d8d6ee5.282c6035@aol.com> I would love to go if just to learn a bit more about networking linux. <---- new bee -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010510/36c8b561/attachment.htm From duncan at sodatrain.com Thu May 10 15:30:17 2001 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (duncan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: well, im pissed. ill take a beer. anyone else? > about it. If it really got you pissed off that much, I'll buy you a beer at > tonight's beer meeting. =) > From nate at techie.com Thu May 10 16:34:23 2001 From: nate at techie.com (Nate Straz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: DSL in Dakota County In-Reply-To: <3AFA94C1.60C98FE@uswest.net>; from dutchman@uswest.net on Thu, May 10, 2001 at 08:16:49AM -0500 References: <20010510124053.36973.qmail@web9608.mail.yahoo.com> <3AFA94C1.60C98FE@uswest.net> Message-ID: <20010510173423.A45498@frontiernet.net> Since I've been looking at new apartments recently, I think I have a pretty good hold on what's going on with high speed access in Dakota county. If anyone from the telcos or cable companies would like to give an official status, please do. DSL: Qwest doesn't seem to have any intention to expand what they have already done. They seem to have some coverage in northern Dakota. The area around Yankee Doodle and Lexington is ready and up to Highway 13 and 35E. Frontier, whom I personally hate, are just getting their act together. I got a call that it is available in the area of County 42 and I-35. I'm moving out of that region so I'm not going to find out for sure. I've also heard that it is availale in Rosemount. Rumor has it that are only going to support up to the point that you can surf the web and read email in Windows. Cable: I think AT&T Broadband (aka MediaOne) controls Burnsville and Eagan. They are planning to roll out this summer. Since I don't trust that company either, I'm not holding my breath. That's all the information that I've gathered during my apartment shopping. Hope it helps someone. Nate From tanner at real-time.com Thu May 10 16:34:36 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual-head, X4.0.3 and DGA Message-ID: <20010510163436.U31747@real-time.com> Anyone able to get DGA working with XFree86-4.0.3 and xinerama active? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From dutchman at uswest.net Fri May 11 08:10:37 2001 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GEdit In-Reply-To: <01051015341600.05311@dedannshae.thuria.org> References: <989513946.5966.0.camel@fedaykin> <01051015341600.05311@dedannshae.thuria.org> Message-ID: <989586637.988.1.camel@fedaykin> On 10 May 2001 15:34:16 -0500, Dave Sherman wrote: > GEdit 0.9.0 works fine for me. Have you verified your permissions to the > file(s) you are opening? > First thing I did. Maybe I need to knock it down a level. GEdit 0.9.5 comes standard with RH 7.1. -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From jhawley at bgea.org Fri May 11 10:21:51 2001 From: jhawley at bgea.org (John Hawley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ghetto Ghost References: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109941@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <3AFC038F.53B0DC1@bgea.org> Too cool! Funny, I've been into Linux for about 3 years and never heard of 'nc' ... had to rush off and install netcat. When I've needed to clone I've been burning a system image cd on the clone'r, then using Toms root on the clone'e to partition then chroot, untar from the cd, run lilo, blahblah. This way would be way cooler. I wonder if you could multicast this somehow. -jh "Austad, Jay" wrote: > So, since I don't have a copy of ghost, and I don't think ghost works with > Linux anyway, I used a couple of commands which did the same thing. > > I need to clone one of my machines to about 10 other ones. And because of > the level of customization, it would take forever to do by hand. So, I > downloaded Tom's root boot floppy from http://www.toms.net. The machine I > needed to clone was booted in read-only mode, it had an ip of 10.10.220.53. > I then booted the other machine with Tom's root boot disk and gave it the ip > 10.10.220.21. On the one I wanted to clone to, I did: > nc -l -n -v -p 6666 > /dev/sda > > On the machine I wanted to clone from, I did: > cat /dev/sda | nc -n -v 10.10.220.21 6666 > > After a couple of hours, the command finished. I unplugged the network > cable from the new machine (since it was a clone with the same ip as the > other one), and rebooted. It cloned the MBR, the partition table, and all > of the data. The machine seems to work perfectly. I changed the ip on it, > and stuck it into production and it's been performing flawlessly all > morning. > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- John Hawley BGEA/ITS <=> Network Admin 612.335.1334 jhawley@bgea.org From blutgens at sistina.com Fri May 11 09:27:52 2001 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apology In-Reply-To: ; from duncan@sodatrain.com on Thu, May 10, 2001 at 04:30:17PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010511092751.A29304@minime.sistina.com> On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 04:30:17PM -0400, duncan wrote: >well, im pissed. ill take a beer. anyone else? Yeah, you owe us big! :-) But given that he lives with his parents and they dictate his computer usage, it'll be some years before he can buy us one :-) It's o.k. man. Don't let the rents get you down, they just don't want you becomming a hacker and ruining your social life :-) > > >> about it. If it really got you pissed off that much, I'll buy you a beer at >> tonight's beer meeting. =) >> > >_______________________________________________ >tclug-list mailing list >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Ben Lutgens cell: XXX.XXX.XXXX Sistina Software Inc. work: XXX.XXX.XXXX Mailing list admin / Punching Bag (and sorta sysadmin guy) http://www.sistina.com/ <--- great software http://www.gentoo.org/ <--- great distro Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream <--- perfect error message -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010511/db9fd26b/attachment.pgp From chunkyhip at hotmail.com Fri May 11 09:32:25 2001 From: chunkyhip at hotmail.com (David Eagle) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Music production/recording Message-ID: Hey all... Could someone point me in the direction of some software for Linux similar to Cakewalk or ACID PRO 2.0? I only have one computer and want the ease of recording with a program like acid, but refuse to run Windows... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From austad at marketwatch.com Fri May 11 12:03:38 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ghetto Ghost Message-ID: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109959@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> You could probably multicast it, but if for some reason a packet was dropped to one of the clones, it wouldn't get resent, and you'd be missing data. It takes about 1.5 hours to clone a system with an 18GB drive on 100Mb ethernet. Actually, it's probably faster than that, but I'm going over a trunk between two switches that has other traffic on it also. > -----Original Message----- > From: John Hawley [mailto:jhawley@bgea.org] > Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 10:22 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Ghetto Ghost > > > Too cool! Funny, I've been into Linux for about 3 years and > never heard of > 'nc' ... had to rush off and install netcat. When I've > needed to clone I've > been burning a system image cd on the clone'r, then using > Toms root on the > clone'e to partition then chroot, untar from the cd, run > lilo, blahblah. This > way would be way cooler. I wonder if you could multicast > this somehow. > > -jh > > "Austad, Jay" wrote: > > > So, since I don't have a copy of ghost, and I don't think > ghost works with > > Linux anyway, I used a couple of commands which did the same thing. > > > > I need to clone one of my machines to about 10 other ones. > And because of > > the level of customization, it would take forever to do by > hand. So, I > > downloaded Tom's root boot floppy from http://www.toms.net. > The machine I > > needed to clone was booted in read-only mode, it had an ip > of 10.10.220.53. > > I then booted the other machine with Tom's root boot disk > and gave it the ip > > 10.10.220.21. On the one I wanted to clone to, I did: > > nc -l -n -v -p 6666 > /dev/sda > > > > On the machine I wanted to clone from, I did: > > cat /dev/sda | nc -n -v 10.10.220.21 6666 > > > > After a couple of hours, the command finished. I unplugged > the network > > cable from the new machine (since it was a clone with the > same ip as the > > other one), and rebooted. It cloned the MBR, the partition > table, and all > > of the data. The machine seems to work perfectly. I > changed the ip on it, > > and stuck it into production and it's been performing flawlessly all > > morning. > > > > Jay > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- > John Hawley > BGEA/ITS <=> Network Admin > 612.335.1334 > jhawley@bgea.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From dave at droyer.org Fri May 11 09:40:04 2001 From: dave at droyer.org (Dave Royer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Address Book In-Reply-To: <000c01c0d9b4$5ee9b890$b0ce99d0@helixx> References: <000c01c0d9b4$5ee9b890$b0ce99d0@helixx> Message-ID: <989592005.8041.2.camel@merlin> I'd personally recomment Evolution (from ximian.com) if you want a graphical MUA. You'll be used to the interface comming from the outlook world, and it works quite well. Of course the usual "this is beta software" warnings apply, but I have been running evoloution for months now with no data corruption or anything. Dave Royer On 10 May 2001 19:50:27 -0500, Andrew Calvin wrote: > Hey all - I'm moving my email over to my Mandrake 8/KDE2.1.1 box, and am wondering what people use for an email program. I'm currently playing with Kmail, although this program seems to be rather limited, especially in the address book dept. Any suggestions for a good email program (and additional address book program if needed) would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Andrew Calvin From dutchman at uswest.net Fri May 11 08:22:59 2001 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GEdit In-Reply-To: <3AFADC12.D2486D5A@ltiflex.com> References: <989513946.5966.0.camel@fedaykin> <3AFADC12.D2486D5A@ltiflex.com> Message-ID: <989587379.987.2.camel@fedaykin> On 10 May 2001 13:21:06 -0500, Andy Zbikowski wrote: > Do you have write access to the file in the first place? Should you have > write access to the file? chmod 644 file? Use gvim or xemacs instead? Did > you check the bugs for GEdit on gnome.org? Yes, I do. It was not just one file, it was every file I opened. Yes, I did. The reply was "Zarro Boogs found". -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From atebbe at real-time.com Thu May 10 16:37:11 2001 From: atebbe at real-time.com (Amy Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] InstallFest June 16 Message-ID: <20010510163711.Z24758@real-time.com> What: TCLUG Linux InstallFest Date: Sat, 06/16 Time: 10am-5pm Location: Benchmark Computer Learning Center 4510 West 77th Street Edina, MN Directions: http://www.benchmarklearning.com/Directions_to_Benchmark.asp For those of you not familiar with installfests, this is an opportunity for you to bring your computer and get hands-on help installing linux. Or, if you already have linux installed, but need help getting something to work, you can do that here too. Just bring your entire computer, cables, etc. As usual, Real Time will bring gladiator (ftp.mn-linux.org), the ftp server that mirrors many popular distros including RedHat, Debian, and Slackware, which you can use for installs. We will also be able to burn copies of your favorite distro for $1 per CD or swap of media. See ya there... -- Amy Tanner Voice: 952.943.8700 Real Time Enterprises, Inc. Fax: 952.943.8500 amy@real-time.com http://www.real-time.com GPG Fingerprint: DAC7 E1B2 80D9 3099 1A20 0817 2DFE 5086 81B3 5466 _______________________________________________ tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri May 11 13:21:17 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Music production/recording In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 11 May 2001, David Eagle wrote: > Could someone point me in the direction of some software for Linux similar > to Cakewalk or ACID PRO 2.0? > I only have one computer and want the ease of recording with a program like > acid, but refuse to run Windows... Good man. There exist tools for what you want to do, but I haven't seen anything as integrated as Cakewalk (if you want the dig. audio, too.) It's not as big a deal as it seems, since Linux is inherently better at multitasking anyway. You might look at http://www.bright.net/~dlphilp/linuxsound or search google. You're going to have to roll your own a little more. There are also one or two pro card manufacturers supporting at least OSS drivers if not writing their own. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri May 11 13:43:01 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] recording/production In-Reply-To: <3AFC038F.53B0DC1@bgea.org> Message-ID: Wait, can I change my answer a little? It looks like http://www.jazzware.com has something that's a lot more integrated than what I've seen. Check it out, if you want. From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Fri May 11 13:43:19 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: DSL in Dakota County In-Reply-To: <20010510173423.A45498@frontiernet.net>; from nate@techie.com on Thu, May 10, 2001 at 05:34:23PM -0400 References: <20010510124053.36973.qmail@web9608.mail.yahoo.com> <3AFA94C1.60C98FE@uswest.net> <20010510173423.A45498@frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <20010511134319.Y4648@ringworld.org> * Nate Straz [010511 07:04]: > That's all the information that I've gathered during my apartment > shopping. Hope it helps someone. Heh, the apartment we found had *all new* cable installed for digital/internet services :) Also, the apt had *two* seperate phone lines (not two lines over one 4pair, two 4pair lines). I was impressed :) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010511/8b03c03d/attachment.pgp From simeonuj at eetc.com Fri May 11 13:54:37 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ghetto Ghost References: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109959@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <3AFC3547.5BFE9952@eetc.com> Would probably work a lot better with a crossover cable w/ 100BT eth. I've heard OF netcat but never used it. Opens some interesting possibilities. :-) sim "Austad, Jay" wrote: > You could probably multicast it, but if for some reason a packet was dropped > to one of the clones, it wouldn't get resent, and you'd be missing data. > > It takes about 1.5 hours to clone a system with an 18GB drive on 100Mb > ethernet. Actually, it's probably faster than that, but I'm going over a > trunk between two switches that has other traffic on it also. From chrome at real-time.com Fri May 11 15:55:46 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Key combo's and Linux In-Reply-To: <3AF84DE6.6B68ECBA@eetc.com>; from simeonuj@eetc.com on Tue, May 08, 2001 at 02:50:04PM -0500 References: <3AF84DE6.6B68ECBA@eetc.com> Message-ID: <20010511155546.A17609@real-time.com> > Or could be set to log out ( a little more difficult since it would have > to tell the shell to log out and couldn't be a program ) or to change > the keyboard config ( I'm still trying to automate this in the command > line ). control-d is logout, in xterms and pc consoles (under bash, and many other line-reading environments). it sends an EOF character. Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From scanman at mninter.net Fri May 11 13:30:29 2001 From: scanman at mninter.net (ScanMan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux partition resizing -- HELP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01051113313100.00775@scanman.localhost.localdomain> There is a tool called parted that will resize ext2 and other types of partitions safely. Search for it on Freshmeat. > On Thu, 10 May 2001, Simeon Johnston wrote: > > > I am trying to resize a partition on my HD. Having some trouble. > > I don't want to go out and buy Partition Magic. I am trying to use FIPS > > but I can only find the DOS binary. Is there a linux binary or is this > > DOS only? > > I don't have a DOS parition. I suppose I might be able to find a boot > > disk but would rather have a linux version on the computer for later use > > anyway. > > Which version of FIPS supports resizing of ext2 partitions? I found 2.0 > > but don't know if that is the most recent version. > > I have looked everywhere but haven't found anything. > > > > sim > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: 2.6.3ia > Charset: noconv > > iQCVAwUBOvrgg8tpDhsSpvgtAQGfGgQAoFkDgOuWn56pHQLmnB4RmDufrMOQUBeB > WdzkEYzLckkTPQmXVahvTL1McVCSWuDl8pR6xneZj42r/dTVhKsV8VwrWLyWBgfq > GvOViOzaAoTsfk/Q8U+0bk8+Lf8dzoxdt82hFyNbAdcWZrKy5sgOCr0xHEHHLM3i > o3RFtRIuSkM= > =O9xF > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From veldy at veldy.net Fri May 11 13:30:35 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Address Book References: <000c01c0d9b4$5ee9b890$b0ce99d0@helixx> <989592005.8041.2.camel@merlin> Message-ID: <014601c0da48$79ce0820$3028680a@tgt.com> Does evolution work well with IMAP? Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Royer" To: Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 9:40 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Address Book > I'd personally recomment Evolution (from ximian.com) if you want a > graphical MUA. > > You'll be used to the interface comming from the outlook world, and it > works quite well. > > Of course the usual "this is beta software" warnings apply, but I have > been running evoloution for months now with no data corruption or > anything. > > Dave Royer > From simeonuj at eetc.com Fri May 11 08:55:39 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux partition resizing -- SUCCESS References: <3afb02e6.6c.269167349@cloudnet.com> Message-ID: <3AFBEF55.377C2B08@eetc.com> THANK YOU. It worked great. Much easier than reinstalling. I basically cut the partition in half. No real problems running this program at all. Had to rerun lilo from a different partition but that was simple i.e. I've done it so many times I could do it in my sleep. Thanks all, sim Brian wrote: > > I am trying to resize a partition on my HD. Having some > > trouble. > > I don't want to go out and buy Partition Magic. > > Use GNU parted. http://www.gnu.org/software/parted/ it's > basically a command line version of Partition Magic but much > more free (beer and speech). > -Brian From lxy at cloudnet.com Fri May 11 09:45:50 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Address Book Message-ID: <3afbfb1e.5a97.269167349@cloudnet.com> > On Thu, 10 May 2001, Andrew Calvin wrote: > > > Hey all - I'm moving my email over to my Mandrake > 8/KDE2.1.1 box, and am wondering what people use for an > email program. I was a Kmail user, but I've found that Netscape (Mozilla) mail is probably the nicest GUI based e-mail under linux. If GUI isn't important to you, there's nothing better than PINE :-) From lxy at cloudnet.com Fri May 11 16:06:04 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: DSL in Dakota County Message-ID: <3afc543c.5e98.269167349@cloudnet.com> > Heh, the apartment we found had *all new* cable installed > for > digital/internet services :) Also, the apt had *two* > seperate phone > lines (not two lines over one 4pair, two 4pair lines). Where is this and when can I move in??? :-) From chrome at real-time.com Fri May 11 16:06:22 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Music production/recording In-Reply-To: ; from mend0070@tc.umn.edu on Fri, May 11, 2001 at 01:21:17PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010511160622.B17609@real-time.com> > You might look at http://www.bright.net/~dlphilp/linuxsound or search > google. You're going to have to roll your own a little more. There are > also one or two pro card manufacturers supporting at least OSS drivers if > not writing their own. take a look at: http://www.jazzware.com/cgi-bin/Zope.cgi/jazzware it's a free MIDI sequencer... not as advanced as the Winblows packages; but it was the best thing I found on Freshmeat. A musician friend of mine grabbed the Windows version and gave it a try; she said it was pretty lacking, compared to Cakewalk. (I don't remember her specific criticisms... stuff over my head anyway). Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From m_nassar at yahoo.com Fri May 11 10:19:29 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux partition resizing -- HELP In-Reply-To: <200105110525.f4B5Pek10938@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010511151929.43633.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com> i heard that GNUparted is supposed to work like partiton magic but i never tried it... last i heard from fips was a long time ago... and back then they were warning that fips didnt support fat32... so i doubt that ext2 would be supported... - munir > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 10:58:44 -0500 > From: Simeon Johnston > Organization: Electronic Easel > To: TCLUG > Subject: > Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > I am trying to resize a partition on my HD. Having > some trouble. > I don't want to go out and buy Partition Magic. I > am trying to use FIPS > but I can only find the DOS binary. Is there a > linux binary or is this > DOS only? > I don't have a DOS parition. I suppose I might be > able to find a boot > disk but would rather have a linux version on the > computer for later use > anyway. > Which version of FIPS supports resizing of ext2 > partitions? I found 2.0 > but don't know if that is the most recent version. > I have looked everywhere but haven't found anything. > > sim ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From mike at getbent.net Fri May 11 10:17:59 2001 From: mike at getbent.net (Mike Nielsen) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Freakish behavior Message-ID: <0105111017590D.00801@Dingo> Haviing some trouble with my mail server. Sendmail 8.11 There are some sites that I cannot send mail to, the connection always times out. If from my linux firewall I telnet to the given smtp server port 25 it won't connect. However if I telnet from a machine behind the firewall (The natted boxes get the same IP as the router) I connect just fine. It isn't every smtp host just a few that I have run accross. It dosn't seem to be any particular type of remote host either, some sendmail, some exchange. I can't seem to figure out what is going on. I have disabled the firewall and get the same result. Anyone ever run accross this type of thing before? -- ----------------------------- |\/|ike@GetBent.net From m_nassar at yahoo.com Fri May 11 10:26:50 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] lanparty In-Reply-To: <200105110525.f4B5Pek10938@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010511152650.30266.qmail@web10102.mail.yahoo.com> i finally got DRI up and running, for some reason the damn thing kept seg-faulting and core-dumping and crashing X left and right... but its working now and i finally got to play Quake3, (which also means i finally for to see how bad i suck in suck in FPS games... ) back to the point... i'd be willing to join you in a lanparty... -munir > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 14:48:43 -0500 (CDT) > From: Ben Kochie > To: > Subject: [TCLUG] lanparty > Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > ok.. I've been thinking about putting together a > medium sized lanparty, > and I'm looking for people to help in the planing, > setup, etc. > > ideas so far: > > Mid-large sized: 50-100 people, depending on > location found. > > Location: U of M campus.. I know there's atleast a > few ACM, and other U > of M people around on the list. (and I can try and > throw some of my IMA > weight around) > > Cost: something small, free if possible. > > I wouldn't mind making this an official TCLUG thing. > > Thank You, > Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) > > "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its > friends." > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: 2.6.3ia > Charset: noconv > > iQCVAwUBOvrwnctpDhsSpvgtAQEUbgQApbIQKZBi9JTx/ttw3R0Rxh+KNsHBPM9d > 55INVpXcE+dbYw8GvBuT7RI8BGf6XW4RqWcdQ0OkSd+rLQ6qBM1SuT50gDxa6Gxc > /B+N2dGLXbcWGQlC6wS7MrWDctWjaeLjvAQcu7LYSkGCQElmpw2EFcuAYeLFcEK7 > gorkL+A96kM= > =mmEK > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > --__--__-- > ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From m_nassar at yahoo.com Fri May 11 10:27:14 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] lanparty In-Reply-To: <200105110525.f4B5Pek10938@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010511152714.93691.qmail@web10107.mail.yahoo.com> i finally got DRI up and running, for some reason the damn thing kept seg-faulting and core-dumping and crashing X left and right... but its working now and i finally got to play Quake3, (which also means i finally for to see how bad i suck in suck in FPS games... ) back to the point... i'd be willing to join you in a lanparty... -munir > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 14:48:43 -0500 (CDT) > From: Ben Kochie > To: > Subject: [TCLUG] lanparty > Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > ok.. I've been thinking about putting together a > medium sized lanparty, > and I'm looking for people to help in the planing, > setup, etc. > > ideas so far: > > Mid-large sized: 50-100 people, depending on > location found. > > Location: U of M campus.. I know there's atleast a > few ACM, and other U > of M people around on the list. (and I can try and > throw some of my IMA > weight around) > > Cost: something small, free if possible. > > I wouldn't mind making this an official TCLUG thing. > > Thank You, > Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) > > "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its > friends." > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: 2.6.3ia > Charset: noconv > > iQCVAwUBOvrwnctpDhsSpvgtAQEUbgQApbIQKZBi9JTx/ttw3R0Rxh+KNsHBPM9d > 55INVpXcE+dbYw8GvBuT7RI8BGf6XW4RqWcdQ0OkSd+rLQ6qBM1SuT50gDxa6Gxc > /B+N2dGLXbcWGQlC6wS7MrWDctWjaeLjvAQcu7LYSkGCQElmpw2EFcuAYeLFcEK7 > gorkL+A96kM= > =mmEK > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > --__--__-- > ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From m_nassar at yahoo.com Fri May 11 10:27:06 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] lanparty In-Reply-To: <200105110525.f4B5Pek10938@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010511152706.45072.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com> i finally got DRI up and running, for some reason the damn thing kept seg-faulting and core-dumping and crashing X left and right... but its working now and i finally got to play Quake3, (which also means i finally for to see how bad i suck in suck in FPS games... ) back to the point... i'd be willing to join you in a lanparty... -munir > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 14:48:43 -0500 (CDT) > From: Ben Kochie > To: > Subject: [TCLUG] lanparty > Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > ok.. I've been thinking about putting together a > medium sized lanparty, > and I'm looking for people to help in the planing, > setup, etc. > > ideas so far: > > Mid-large sized: 50-100 people, depending on > location found. > > Location: U of M campus.. I know there's atleast a > few ACM, and other U > of M people around on the list. (and I can try and > throw some of my IMA > weight around) > > Cost: something small, free if possible. > > I wouldn't mind making this an official TCLUG thing. > > Thank You, > Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) > > "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its > friends." > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: 2.6.3ia > Charset: noconv > > iQCVAwUBOvrwnctpDhsSpvgtAQEUbgQApbIQKZBi9JTx/ttw3R0Rxh+KNsHBPM9d > 55INVpXcE+dbYw8GvBuT7RI8BGf6XW4RqWcdQ0OkSd+rLQ6qBM1SuT50gDxa6Gxc > /B+N2dGLXbcWGQlC6wS7MrWDctWjaeLjvAQcu7LYSkGCQElmpw2EFcuAYeLFcEK7 > gorkL+A96kM= > =mmEK > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > --__--__-- > ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From m_nassar at yahoo.com Fri May 11 10:28:13 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] lanparty In-Reply-To: <200105110525.f4B5Pek10938@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010511152813.93850.qmail@web10107.mail.yahoo.com> i finally got DRI up and running, for some reason the damn thing kept seg-faulting and core-dumping and crashing X left and right... but its working now and i finally got to play Quake3, (which also means i finally for to see how bad i suck in suck in FPS games... ) back to the point... i'd be willing to join you in a lanparty... -munir > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 14:48:43 -0500 (CDT) > From: Ben Kochie > To: > Subject: [TCLUG] lanparty > Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > ok.. I've been thinking about putting together a > medium sized lanparty, > and I'm looking for people to help in the planing, > setup, etc. > > ideas so far: > > Mid-large sized: 50-100 people, depending on > location found. > > Location: U of M campus.. I know there's atleast a > few ACM, and other U > of M people around on the list. (and I can try and > throw some of my IMA > weight around) > > Cost: something small, free if possible. > > I wouldn't mind making this an official TCLUG thing. > > Thank You, > Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) > > "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its > friends." > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: 2.6.3ia > Charset: noconv > > iQCVAwUBOvrwnctpDhsSpvgtAQEUbgQApbIQKZBi9JTx/ttw3R0Rxh+KNsHBPM9d > 55INVpXcE+dbYw8GvBuT7RI8BGf6XW4RqWcdQ0OkSd+rLQ6qBM1SuT50gDxa6Gxc > /B+N2dGLXbcWGQlC6wS7MrWDctWjaeLjvAQcu7LYSkGCQElmpw2EFcuAYeLFcEK7 > gorkL+A96kM= > =mmEK > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > --__--__-- > ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From m_nassar at yahoo.com Fri May 11 10:30:08 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] sorry about the spam In-Reply-To: <200105110525.f4B5Pek10938@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010511153008.45623.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com> sorry about the spam... Konquerer fscked up on me yet again... -munir ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From jspinti at dart.dartdist.com Fri May 11 10:38:25 2001 From: jspinti at dart.dartdist.com (jspinti@dart.dartdist.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Programming with Linux Message-ID: <10105111554.AA17457@dart.dartdist.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 204 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010511/e5045751/attachment.asc From natecars at real-time.com Fri May 11 16:54:09 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Freakish behavior In-Reply-To: <0105111017590D.00801@Dingo> Message-ID: On Fri, 11 May 2001, Mike Nielsen wrote: > There are some sites that I cannot send mail to, the connection always times > out. If from my linux firewall I telnet to the given smtp server port 25 it > won't connect. However if I telnet from a machine behind the firewall (The > natted boxes get the same IP as the router) I connect just fine. It isn't > every smtp host just a few that I have run accross. It dosn't seem to be any > particular type of remote host either, some sendmail, some exchange. > > I can't seem to figure out what is going on. > > I have disabled the firewall and get the same result. > > Anyone ever run accross this type of thing before? Do you have ip_masq_autofw or a similar module forwarding ports 1024: into your internal network? -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From scanman at mninter.net Thu May 10 16:51:38 2001 From: scanman at mninter.net (ScanMan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux partition resizing -- HELP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01051016582400.12566@scanman.localhost.localdomain> There is an easy to use tool for doing this called GNU Parted. It can resize FAT16/FAT32 as well as EXT2 partitions. All data is retained and it is completely safe. See http://www.gnu.org/software/parted/ Also: RPM package: ftp://ftp.falsehope.net/pub/parted/ DEB package: http://packages.debian.org/unstable/admin/parted.html From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Fri May 11 17:09:17 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:51 2005 Subject: [ot] Re: [TCLUG] Re: DSL in Dakota County In-Reply-To: <3afc543c.5e98.269167349@cloudnet.com>; from lxy@cloudnet.com on Fri, May 11, 2001 at 09:06:04PM +0000 References: <3afc543c.5e98.269167349@cloudnet.com> Message-ID: <20010511170916.B4648@ringworld.org> * Brian [010511 16:40]: > > > Heh, the apartment we found had *all new* cable installed > > for > > digital/internet services :) Also, the apt had *two* > > seperate phone > > lines (not two lines over one 4pair, two 4pair lines). > Where is this and when can I move in??? :-) Well, the 2nd 4pair looked like it was added-on, so it might not be 'standard', but the cable rocks :) Park Pointe apartments, St. Louis Park, MN. They are on rent.net, afaik. Close to bus lines and all that. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010511/36c9c1c9/attachment.pgp From andy at theasis.com Fri May 11 17:11:46 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Address Book In-Reply-To: <3afbfb1e.5a97.269167349@cloudnet.com> Message-ID: > GUI isn't important to you, there's nothing better than PINE > :-) GUI ain't, but UI is, so Mutt is also a candidate. Andy From florin at iucha.net Fri May 11 17:18:49 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Address Book In-Reply-To: <3afbfb1e.5a97.269167349@cloudnet.com>; from lxy@cloudnet.com on Fri, May 11, 2001 at 02:45:50PM +0000 References: <3afbfb1e.5a97.269167349@cloudnet.com> Message-ID: <20010511171849.A12032@beaver.iucha.org> On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 02:45:50PM +0000, Brian wrote: > > > On Thu, 10 May 2001, Andrew Calvin wrote: > > > > > Hey all - I'm moving my email over to my Mandrake > > 8/KDE2.1.1 box, and am wondering what people use for an > > email program. > > I was a Kmail user, but I've found that Netscape (Mozilla) > mail is probably the nicest GUI based e-mail under linux. > If > GUI isn't important to you, there's nothing better than PINE > :-) Yes there is. It is called MUTT. I am using it for a week after three years of pine and I'm amazed. I love it. It is the way a mail client should be. florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From florin at iucha.net Fri May 11 17:20:30 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Freakish behavior In-Reply-To: <0105111017590D.00801@Dingo>; from mike@getbent.net on Fri, May 11, 2001 at 10:17:59AM -0500 References: <0105111017590D.00801@Dingo> Message-ID: <20010511172030.B12032@beaver.iucha.org> On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 10:17:59AM -0500, Mike Nielsen wrote: > Haviing some trouble with my mail server. Sendmail 8.11 > > > > There are some sites that I cannot send mail to, the connection always times > out. If from my linux firewall I telnet to the given smtp server port 25 it > won't connect. However if I telnet from a machine behind the firewall (The > natted boxes get the same IP as the router) I connect just fine. It isn't > every smtp host just a few that I have run accross. It dosn't seem to be any > particular type of remote host either, some sendmail, some exchange. > > I can't seem to figure out what is going on. > > I have disabled the firewall and get the same result. > > Anyone ever run accross this type of thing before? No. I am using the "SMART_HOST" feature of sendmail to send the mail to the ISP upstream and let him worry about the delivery :) florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From austad at marketwatch.com Fri May 11 17:35:55 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Freakish behavior Message-ID: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F10995B@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> You might want to make sure you're not on a blackhole list somewhere too. > -----Original Message----- > From: Nate Carlson [mailto:natecars@real-time.com] > Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 4:54 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Freakish behavior > > > On Fri, 11 May 2001, Mike Nielsen wrote: > > There are some sites that I cannot send mail to, the > connection always times > > out. If from my linux firewall I telnet to the given smtp > server port 25 it > > won't connect. However if I telnet from a machine behind > the firewall (The > > natted boxes get the same IP as the router) I connect just > fine. It isn't > > every smtp host just a few that I have run accross. It > dosn't seem to be any > > particular type of remote host either, some sendmail, some exchange. > > > > I can't seem to figure out what is going on. > > > > I have disabled the firewall and get the same result. > > > > Anyone ever run accross this type of thing before? > > Do you have ip_masq_autofw or a similar module forwarding > ports 1024: into > your internal network? > > -- > Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From florin at iucha.net Thu May 10 18:20:01 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] www.xfree86.org dead? In-Reply-To: <20010510161856.S31747@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Thu, May 10, 2001 at 04:18:56PM -0500 References: <20010510161856.S31747@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010510182001.A24895@beaver.iucha.org> On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 04:18:56PM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote: > Anyone get to xfree86.org? > > I can trace, ping, but not http connectivity. They are dead sometimes... It has happened to me in the past. florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From stauffer_james at yahoo.com Fri May 11 11:39:58 2001 From: stauffer_james at yahoo.com (James A. N. Stauffer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Music production/recording In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010511163959.39476.qmail@web11501.mail.yahoo.com> I would so be very interested in this also. I am currently using SoundForge. What works similarly on Linux? --- David Eagle wrote: > Could someone point me in the direction of some software for Linux > similar > to Cakewalk or ACID PRO 2.0? > I only have one computer and want the ease of recording with a program > like > acid, but refuse to run Windows... ===== = o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ _____=======_||___ o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | | Stauffer_James | .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | | @yahoo.com | >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|________________| _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o¬o¬o o¬o¬o` 'o¬o o¬o` __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From austad at marketwatch.com Fri May 11 12:41:34 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Address Book Message-ID: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F10995A@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Sylpheed seems pretty good. Do a search on freshmeat for it. No addressbook though. > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Royer [mailto:dave@droyer.org] > Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 9:40 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Address Book > > > I'd personally recomment Evolution (from ximian.com) if you want a > graphical MUA. > > You'll be used to the interface comming from the outlook world, and it > works quite well. > > Of course the usual "this is beta software" warnings apply, but I have > been running evoloution for months now with no data corruption or > anything. > > Dave Royer > > On 10 May 2001 19:50:27 -0500, Andrew Calvin wrote: > > Hey all - I'm moving my email over to my Mandrake > 8/KDE2.1.1 box, and am wondering what people use for an email > program. I'm currently playing with Kmail, although this > program seems to be rather limited, especially in the address > book dept. Any suggestions for a good email program (and > additional address book program if needed) would be greatly > appreciated. > > > > Thanks, > > Andrew Calvin > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From bradyh at bitstream.net Fri May 11 14:08:07 2001 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (bradyh) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GEdit Message-ID: <200105111908.OAA24970@zero.bitstream.net> I had that same problem. I "solved" it by downloading and installing Beaver. Beaver's pretty nice but, like Gedit, it doesn't allow you to turn off linewrapping. I guess the GTK text control doesn't support that. I'm this close to going in an trying to rewrite the control myself. I begged the author of TextPad for a version for Linux but strangely enough he didn't respond. Brady On 10 May 2001 13:21:06 -0500, Andy Zbikowski wrote: > Do you have write access to the file in the first place? Should you have > write access to the file? chmod 644 file? Use gvim or xemacs instead? Did > you check the bugs for GEdit on gnome.org? Yes, I do. It was not just one file, it was every file I opened. Yes, I did. The reply was "Zarro Boogs found". -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ben at nerp.net Fri May 11 14:23:07 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian trees? Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- is it just me, or is the sid/main/binary-i386 tree _empty_?? and i386 in woody is close to empty? Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOvw8HMtpDhsSpvgtAQHfyAQAk+mgvwPj7YghpnvI8KgKNySPSNg5NHVa q29SucwWZ9U0Xw5SN034LIEOxhm+SqSEiS0OFbk1J2nmjIZ+80k0YkG0vjAJgJTL TITMFInZGtypDsgGs7owwKzzxBT7q6NVuG0s8ZT3kaTk78LCIdMo8U+igX1MJqWB 8Ajuyqxo3AM= =iIic -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From blayer at qwest.net Fri May 11 18:20:51 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Address Book In-Reply-To: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F10995A@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> References: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F10995A@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20010511182051.11ad9371.blayer@qwest.net> On Fri, 11 May 2001 12:41:34 -0500 "Austad, Jay" wrote: > Sylpheed seems pretty good. Do a search on freshmeat for it. No > addressbook though. Err, no address book in Sylpheed? Try ALT+A or look under the Tool menu... -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From drew at usfamily.net Fri May 11 17:37:50 2001 From: drew at usfamily.net (Andrew Nemchenko) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apology References: Message-ID: <00a301c0da6b$10d4a0e0$5a9a0ace@ancor.com> There is lots of Outlook bashing going on lately, but has anyone considered tunring to Eudora? ----- Original Message ----- From: Matt Waters To: Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 12:56 PM Subject: [TCLUG] Apology > I just noticed that my e-mail that I sent to the list went out 3 times. This > is because Outlook Express sucks fat sweaty donkey balls (/me was forbidden > by family to install Linux until end of school year. =( ), along with the > fact that in my infinite density I thought that Outlook Express was queing > my e-mail when, in fact, it was sending it. I was not trying to spam the > list. I apologize for being dense and hope that none of you are too angry > about it. If it really got you pissed off that much, I'll buy you a beer at > tonight's beer meeting. =) > > ---------- > The Fishy One's Infinite Wisdom #1: "If a 2000 pound gorilla asks you for > your Rolex, by God, you give it to him!" > > New wisdom every week! > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ From tanner at real-time.com Fri May 11 15:46:46 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] New Kernel for ftp.mn-linux.org Message-ID: <20010511154646.Q31945@real-time.com> Need 15 min maintenance window start at 4pm CST on May 11, 2001 to install a new kernel on ftp.mn-linux.org. Thanks. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 366 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010511/5a57a2b1/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Fri May 11 18:57:47 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apology-> Use Evolution In-Reply-To: <00a301c0da6b$10d4a0e0$5a9a0ace@ancor.com>; from drew@usfamily.net on Fri, May 11, 2001 at 03:37:50PM -0700 References: <00a301c0da6b$10d4a0e0$5a9a0ace@ancor.com> Message-ID: <20010511185747.D31945@real-time.com> Quoting Andrew Nemchenko (drew@usfamily.net): > There is lots of Outlook bashing going on lately, but has anyone considered > tunring to Eudora? Evolution is the right GUI for you if you need a GUI MUA. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From dcsherman at qwest.net Fri May 11 21:33:50 2001 From: dcsherman at qwest.net (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apology In-Reply-To: <00a301c0da6b$10d4a0e0$5a9a0ace@ancor.com> References: <00a301c0da6b$10d4a0e0$5a9a0ace@ancor.com> Message-ID: <01051121335000.01600@dedannshae.thuria.org> Is there a Eudora Linux client? I'm gonna check on that right now, since I use it for Windows at work... Dave On Friday 11 May 2001 17:37, thus spake Andrew Nemchenko: > There is lots of Outlook bashing going on lately, but has anyone > considered tunring to Eudora? From drake at lemongecko.org Fri May 11 21:28:50 2001 From: drake at lemongecko.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian trees? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 11 May 2001, Ben Kochie wrote: > is it just me, or is the sid/main/binary-i386 tree _empty_?? and i386 in > woody is close to empty? Here's what I see in sid/main/binary-i386/ at ftp.debian.org: -rw-rw-r-- 1 debian debian 4862788 May 11 19:25 Packages -rw-rw-r-- 1 debian debian 1347315 May 11 19:25 Packages.gz -rw-rw-r-- 1 debian debian 82 May 11 19:34 Release Looks pretty empty to me! I dunno; as long as apt-get works for me, I figure the Debian folks can do whatever they want to their ftp server... Incidentally, what *is* sid? I know potato is the current stable version, and woody is the next version...do I have this diagram right? potato <-> stable woody <-> testing sid <-> unstable I'm still a bit confused about the Debian naming convenctions; it was only a couple months ago that I Saw The Light and switched from Redhat. :) Dan -- /*-------------------------------- Dan Drake http://lemongecko.org/drake/ --------pgp encouraged----------*/ From jamie at getsetnet.net Fri May 11 22:13:33 2001 From: jamie at getsetnet.net (Jamie Ostrowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Different tclug lists Message-ID: With Linux distros becoming increasingly popular, and with newcomers becoming more and more common on the tclug list, has anyone considered the possibility of having a few different tclug lists, based on the experience levels of the readers? Maybe a more basic list for newebies to help each other out with the more simple day to day questions like: "How do I read email with Linux?" "How do I set up a modem?" "What does an IP address do?" "Where is the Visual Basic compiler?" etc and an intermediate tclug list for people who have a handle on Linux but wouldn't be ready to consider themselves "advanced" with their questions. And an advanced list for those who do some hard core hacking and have related questions. This might help alleviate tensions as the number of Linux users grows, but will help keep the advanced users talking with others on their own experience levels. Just a thought... - Jamie -- "It's pretty hard to stop a man who eats his toast every morning." From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sat May 12 00:09:14 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Different tclug lists In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 11 May 2001, Jamie Ostrowski wrote: > This might help alleviate tensions as the number of Linux users grows, > but will help keep the advanced users talking with others on their own > experience levels. Just a thought... Is there tension? I thought the beer meetings took care of that. I've noticed that these things tend to be pretty well self-regulating. There's the tclug-jobs and tclug-devel list. For the really arcane, you usually end up on a special purpose development list somewhere anyway. Everyone's advanced and novice in their own areas; seems to me that the homogenizing of the groups is the catalyst that makes things interesting. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From florin at iucha.net Sat May 12 00:02:20 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Different tclug lists In-Reply-To: ; from jamie@getsetnet.net on Fri, May 11, 2001 at 10:13:33PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010512000220.A26671@beaver.iucha.org> On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 10:13:33PM -0500, Jamie Ostrowski wrote: > > With Linux distros becoming increasingly popular, and with newcomers > becoming more and more common on the tclug list, has anyone considered the > possibility of having a few different tclug lists, based on the experience > levels of the readers? Maybe a more basic list for newebies to help each > other out with the more simple day to day questions like: > > "How do I read email with Linux?" > > "How do I set up a modem?" > > "What does an IP address do?" > > "Where is the Visual Basic compiler?" > > etc > > and an intermediate tclug list for people who have a handle on Linux > but wouldn't be ready to consider themselves "advanced" with their > questions. > > And an advanced list for those who do some hard core hacking and have > related questions. > > This might help alleviate tensions as the number of Linux users grows, > but will help keep the advanced users talking with others on their own > experience levels. Just a thought... ... and not to forget that it will triple the work of spammers... Seriously, No, I don't think it's a good idea. This list haven't got yet to the point where there are so many posts that it's hard to keep up, or to "visually" filter what's interesting and what's not. florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From seg at haxxed.com Sat May 12 01:41:30 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Different tclug lists References: Message-ID: <3AFCDB1A.3858CBB9@haxxed.com> Jamie Ostrowski wrote: > > With Linux distros becoming increasingly popular, and with newcomers > becoming more and more common on the tclug list, has anyone considered the > possibility of having a few different tclug lists, based on the experience > levels of the readers? Maybe a more basic list for newebies to help each > other out with the more simple day to day questions like: I've recently found myself nearly 1000 messages behind on the list, thus causing me to consider something like this. Maybe I'm becoming old and bitter but it would be nice to segment all the newbie questions from everything else. But the problem I see is none of the knowledgable people will bother to read the newbie Q&A list, no one will get their questions answered and the newbies will wither and die, turning tclug in to an elitist society. Which may not be a bad thing, but *cough* ahem... Whatever. Blargh. Meanwhile, I gave up and just deleted those damn 1000 messages. Whee. From nate at nerp.net Sat May 12 01:43:57 2001 From: nate at nerp.net (Nate Sanders) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian trees? References: Message-ID: <3AFCDBAD.5BA0F6A7@nerp.net> Sid == testing Woody == unstable Correct? Dan Drake wrote: > On Fri, 11 May 2001, Ben Kochie wrote: > > is it just me, or is the sid/main/binary-i386 tree _empty_?? and i386 in > > woody is close to empty? > > Here's what I see in sid/main/binary-i386/ at ftp.debian.org: > > -rw-rw-r-- 1 debian debian 4862788 May 11 19:25 Packages > -rw-rw-r-- 1 debian debian 1347315 May 11 19:25 Packages.gz > -rw-rw-r-- 1 debian debian 82 May 11 19:34 Release > > Looks pretty empty to me! > > I dunno; as long as apt-get works for me, I figure the Debian folks can > do whatever they want to their ftp server... > > Incidentally, what *is* sid? I know potato is the current stable > version, and woody is the next version...do I have this diagram right? > > potato <-> stable > woody <-> testing > sid <-> unstable > > I'm still a bit confused about the Debian naming convenctions; it was > only a couple months ago that I Saw The Light and switched from Redhat. :) > > Dan > > -- > /*-------------------------------- > Dan Drake > http://lemongecko.org/drake/ > --------pgp encouraged----------*/ > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Nate Sanders nate@chef.nerp.net http://www.damnation.net IRC: darkskull@NEWNET From tanner at real-time.com Sat May 12 01:52:44 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Different tclug lists In-Reply-To: <3AFCDB1A.3858CBB9@haxxed.com>; from seg@haxxed.com on Sat, May 12, 2001 at 01:41:30AM -0500 References: <3AFCDB1A.3858CBB9@haxxed.com> Message-ID: <20010512015244.B19765@real-time.com> Quoting Callum Lerwick (seg@haxxed.com): > people will bother to read the newbie Q&A list, no one will get their > questions answered and the newbies will wither and die, turning tclug in > to an elitist society. Which may not be a bad thing, but *cough* ahem... > Whatever. Blargh. Segmenting the list will breed elitism, if there is not enough here already. :-) What I have seen work best, is what they do at jdc (java develop connection) is to give everyone several hundred java bucks to "seed" the rewards board. When people post a question, they assign java bucks to it. The person who answers it first, to the statisfaction of the poster and a moderator get the java bucks, whicn you can then use on your own questions OR use them in the Java Online store to buy trinkets and trash. If you REALLY want an answer, you assign it more java bucks. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From andyzib at ringworld.org Sat May 12 01:55:12 2001 From: andyzib at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian trees? References: <3AFCDBAD.5BA0F6A7@nerp.net> Message-ID: <3AFCDE50.91DA9E28@ringworld.org> > > > is it just me, or is the sid/main/binary-i386 tree _empty_?? and i386 in > > > woody is close to empty? Yes, they are. Package pools, remember? Look in http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/pool It's transparent to apt, apt still looks in the binary-i386 tree for Packages.gz, but the paths in Packages.gz have changed to point at pool. If you're getting 404's, the server is syncing... -- | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | This message is protected by double ROT13 | | encryption. Any attempt to circumvent the | | digital protection is banned by the DMCA. | -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: andyzib.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 2265 bytes Desc: Card for Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010512/bfa09301/andyzib.vcf From sgrobe at mn.rr.com Sat May 12 07:03:37 2001 From: sgrobe at mn.rr.com (Steve) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Different tclug lists References: Message-ID: <3AFD2699.A7D8E646@mn.rr.com> I wonder how many of you who would be considered intermediate or advanced would hang out on the newbie list to help out the newbies. The reason I ask is I don't use Linux because I love Unix, or because I have tons of spare time and love a challange. I don't use it because I am exceptionally talented or intelligent. (past postings prove this) I don't use it because I have any special affection for the open source movement. I use it because it works well for most things. Since installing Mandrake 8, 20 days, 11 hours, 18 minutes ago, or so uptime tells me, I haven't had to reboot this computer. I can't get uptime like that with any Microsoft product or any Apple product. I have achieved uptime like that with BeOS, but nobody wants to use an OS that is no longer being actively supported. You are probably wondering what the heck my point is. Here it comes. There are millions of people just like me. People who have been using Microsoft and Apple products for years but are finally tired of the constant crashes and reboots. Many of these people are willing to take the time to learn something new, but they will need your help. A couple of months ago I decided that Be Inc. just wasn't going to update BeOS anytime soon. Win2k was driving me bonkers so I decided to try Linux again. I downloaded Mandrake 7.2, seems to be one of the most popular distros on linuxnewbie.org, and had at it. The install went well but I couldn't get my soundcard to work. I posted my problem here and Zibby (I bet Zibby would hang out on the advanced list) was kind enough to help me out, IIRC he even sent me his config file so I could do an A/B comparison. Doesn't sound like much does it? But if he hadn't helped me I probably would have done an fdisk on the partition and gone back to Win2k. At that point I had been messing with that sound card for a few hours, reading howtos....etc. I just needed a place to start looking. Would I have been any great loss to the community? No probably not, but like I said there are millions of people out there just like me. The 50% of them who are smarter just might be a loss. Brevity is genius, hence the length of my post. Sorry to babble so long. SG, O.S.D. Jamie Ostrowski wrote: > > With Linux distros becoming increasingly popular, and with newcomers > becoming more and more common on the tclug list, has anyone considered the > possibility of having a few different tclug lists, based on the experience > levels of the readers? Maybe a more basic list for newebies to help each > other out with the more simple day to day questions like: > -- Yadda, yadda, yadda From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Sat May 12 08:32:49 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Freakish behavior In-Reply-To: <0105111017590D.00801@Dingo> References: <0105111017590D.00801@Dingo> Message-ID: <20010512083249.55fd8622.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Mike Nielsen wrote: > > There are some sites that I cannot send mail to, the connection always > times out. If from my linux firewall I telnet to the given smtp server > port 25 it won't connect. However if I telnet from a machine behind the > firewall (The natted boxes get the same IP as the router) I connect just > fine. It isn't every smtp host just a few that I have run accross. It > dosn't seem to be any particular type of remote host either, some > sendmail, some exchange. > > I can't seem to figure out what is going on. > > I have disabled the firewall and get the same result. > > Anyone ever run accross this type of thing before? Well, if your firewall (which I assume is also the machine running Sendmail) is running the 2.4 Linux kernel, make sure you do `echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_ecn'. A number of routers and firewalls drop or otherwise mis-handle those packets. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ I almost had a psychic / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ girlfriend but she left \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) me before we met. [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sat May 12 08:42:06 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Different tclug lists In-Reply-To: <3AFCDB1A.3858CBB9@haxxed.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 12 May 2001, Callum Lerwick wrote: > I've recently found myself nearly 1000 messages behind on the list, thus > causing me to consider something like this. Maybe I'm becoming old and > bitter but it would be nice to segment all the newbie questions from > everything else. Dude! -- what's your .procmailrc look like? :) > Meanwhile, I gave up and just deleted those damn 1000 messages. Whee. You only think so. Why keep a local copy when there's a lovely archive that's searchable? Hell, you almost don't have to read the list -- just look up your related problem topics for real stuff, and then the list itself transcends to become the electronic water cooler we all know and love. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sat May 12 08:42:48 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian trees? In-Reply-To: <3AFCDBAD.5BA0F6A7@nerp.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 12 May 2001, Nate Sanders wrote: > Sid == testing > Woody == unstable > > Correct? Backwards. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From ben at nerp.net Sat May 12 10:15:13 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian trees? In-Reply-To: <3AFCDE50.91DA9E28@ringworld.org> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- crap.. i forgot they were moving to that on the FTP. I didn't know they had actualy done it.. :) rockin.. this should make finding things a hell of a lot easier. :) :) now if only the index files would let you see the whole filename. Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Sat, 12 May 2001, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > > > > is it just me, or is the sid/main/binary-i386 tree _empty_?? and i386 in > > > > woody is close to empty? > > Yes, they are. Package pools, remember? Look in > http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/pool > > It's transparent to apt, apt still looks in the binary-i386 tree for > Packages.gz, but the paths in Packages.gz have changed to point at pool. > > If you're getting 404's, the server is syncing... > > -- > | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | > | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | > | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | > | This message is protected by double ROT13 | > | encryption. Any attempt to circumvent the | > | digital protection is banned by the DMCA. | -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOv1Tg8tpDhsSpvgtAQEoOwP+IJJhTbJlTDYCaY/ydAcWTKCkhXTdLSD5 R0v4EpfAD0NjlMdNfXUsdyBwtuD8EUim0eYGRYaIgg8lL0gHeQypC8tKHtV5GXgb 88ImuaxoZ+vwRYcuyI5UdqKPPrnNW5zHuodIH42d89UD6mt7Unafon75GP3ss62n QWB2LtYrELE= =ArXx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From drake at lemongecko.org Sat May 12 09:55:57 2001 From: drake at lemongecko.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian trees? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 12 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On Sat, 12 May 2001, Nate Sanders wrote: > > > Sid == testing > > Woody == unstable > > > > Correct? > > Backwards. Ah. I have been enlightened. Thank you, gentlemen! I'll use this as an opportunity to chip in my 1/50 of a dollar on the list fragmentation issue. I say we keep it as it is; although I consider myself pretty knowledgeable, there are some things -- see above -- which I'm still clueless about and need newbie-level help with. Everybody has widely varying areas of expertise and ignorance, which complement each other on this single list. Dan -- /*-------------------------------- Dan Drake http://lemongecko.org/drake/ --------pgp encouraged----------*/ From lxy at cloudnet.com Sat May 12 11:12:58 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apology Message-ID: <3afd610a.28ea.269167349@cloudnet.com> > Is there a Eudora Linux client? I'm gonna check on that > right now, since I > use it for Windows at work... Under Windows there is no client better than Eudora. I had a problem with LookOut and I needed to reinstall, but Micro$oft was convinced that I was too dumb to install it myself and Micro$oft had to do it with their script. Their script didn't work. So, I switchrd to Eudora Pro 4, it was superior to LookOut in every way, and I haven't looked back since. -Brian From blayer at qwest.net Sat May 12 11:21:17 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apology In-Reply-To: <3afd610a.28ea.269167349@cloudnet.com> References: <3afd610a.28ea.269167349@cloudnet.com> Message-ID: <20010512112117.0a155c68.blayer@qwest.net> On Sat, 12 May 2001 16:12:58 GMT "Brian" wrote: > > Is there a Eudora Linux client? I'm gonna check on that > > right now, since I > > use it for Windows at work... > > Under Windows there is no client better than Eudora. No guff. I still wish every day for Eudora to be ported to x86 Linux. It's one of my main reasons for running vmware. P.S. Kernel 2.4.4 breaks vmware, vmnet module won't compile :)) -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From spencer at sihope.com Sat May 12 14:06:36 2001 From: spencer at sihope.com (spencer@sihope.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #979 - 15 msgs In-Reply-To: <200105120657.f4C6v8K16190@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <3AFD436C.32119.28E487@localhost> > > Message: 14 > Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 01:52:44 -0500 > From: Bob Tanner > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Different tclug lists > Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > Quoting Callum Lerwick (seg@haxxed.com): > > people will bother to read the newbie Q&A list, no one will get > > their questions answered and the newbies will wither and die, > > turning tclug in to an elitist society. Which may not be a bad > > thing, but *cough* ahem... Whatever. Blargh. > > Segmenting the list will breed elitism, if there is not enough here It is also the fundamental element that corporations such as microf@ck use to keep you as a customer. It plays on the fears of the consumer so they have no reasonable choice other than to submit to there "place" in the list. I believe that if you look at the 1960's and the troubles that arose during the civil rights movement, you will see the same kinds of segragation. > already. :-) What I have seen work best, is what they do at jdc (java > develop connection) is to give everyone several hundred java bucks to > "seed" the rewards board. Then to exploit the situation by sowing the seeds of capitalism you further pervet the sanctity of knowledge. We are all connected as humankind just as the filesystem is connected by the / . To battle over trivial mental superiority is conterproductive to an obvious common goal we share. That goal as I see it is to be self reliant on our own resources. That is what open source means to me. When you try to filter knowledge in any manner that restricts you from that knowledge you are acting just as the corporation that sells you a broken non-refundable non-repairable product. > > When people post a question, they assign java bucks to it. The person > who answers it first, to the statisfaction of the poster and a > moderator get the java bucks, whicn you can then use on your own > questions OR use them in the Java Online store to buy trinkets and > trash. > > If you REALLY want an answer, you assign it more java bucks. If you REALLY want an answer, give an answer and get and answer and so on and so forth. -Spencer Underground > From billhfo12 at yahoo.com Sat May 12 12:50:02 2001 From: billhfo12 at yahoo.com (Robert W. Dailis) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] You Will Believe #14F3 Message-ID: <200105130428843.SM01056@jidui8989yqs> We will help you get the mortgage loan you want!? Whether a new home loan is what you seek or to refinance your current home loan at a lower interest rate and payment, we can help! Mortgage rates haven't been this low in the last 12 months, take action now! Refinance your home with us and include all of those pesky credit card bills or use the extra cash for that pool you've always wanted...? Where others says NO, we say YES!!! Even if you have been turned down elsewhere, we can help!? Easy terms! Our mortgage referral service combines the highest quality loans with most economical rates and the easiest qualification! Take just 2 minutes to complete the following form. There is no obligation, all information is kept strictly confidential, and you must be at least 18 years of age. Service available within the United States only. This service is fast and free.?Free information request form: PLEASE VISIT http://www.mortgageprincipal.com *********************************************************** Since you have received this message you have either responded to one of our offers in the past or your address has been registered with us. If you wish to be removed please reply to: mailto:billhfo@netscape.net?subject=remove ************************************************************ From simeonuj at eetc.com Sat May 12 20:09:05 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #979 - 15 msgs References: <3AFD436C.32119.28E487@localhost> Message-ID: <3AFDDEAE.B0232A98@eetc.com> YO spense - lighten up. spencer@sihope.com wrote: > > > people will bother to read the newbie Q&A list, no one will get > > > their questions answered and the newbies will wither and die, > > > turning tclug in to an elitist society. Which may not be a bad > > > thing, but *cough* ahem... Whatever. Blargh. > > > > Segmenting the list will breed elitism, if there is not enough here > It is also the fundamental element that corporations such as > microf@ck use to keep you as a customer. It plays on the fears of > the consumer so they have no reasonable choice other than to > submit to there "place" in the list. I believe that if you look at the > 1960's and the troubles that arose during the civil rights movement, > you will see the same kinds of segragation. I don't think we need to go any farther with this. : ) > > already. :-) What I have seen work best, is what they do at jdc (java > > develop connection) is to give everyone several hundred java bucks to > > "seed" the rewards board. AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!! NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO. I despise those things. I feel ( ugh - Just seeing those two words together makes me kinda sick ) that the list has been doing marvelously well so far. I am on several list that generate at least 2X the amount of mail and don't have a problem yet. > Then to exploit the situation by sowing the seeds of capitalism you > further pervet the sanctity of knowledge. We are all connected as > humankind just as the filesystem is connected by the / . To battle > over trivial mental superiority is conterproductive to an obvious > common goal we share. That goal as I see it is to be self reliant on > our own resources. That is what open source means to me. When > you try to filter knowledge in any manner that restricts you from > that knowledge you are acting just as the corporation that sells you > a broken non-refundable non-repairable product. This also could stop here. *shivers and feels strangely unclean* > > If you REALLY want an answer, you assign it more java bucks. > If you REALLY want an answer, give an answer and get and > answer and so on and so forth. IMHO -- There is no reason for segmentation of the list. sim From florin at iucha.net Sat May 12 21:45:42 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] You Will Believe #14F3 but you won't believe this In-Reply-To: <200105130428843.SM01056@jidui8989yqs>; from billhfo12@yahoo.com on Sat, May 12, 2001 at 12:50:02PM -0500 References: <200105130428843.SM01056@jidui8989yqs> Message-ID: <20010512214542.A24141@beaver.iucha.org> A nice procmail recipe :0 B * ortgage|inance|redit { :0 Mail/spam/ } florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Sat May 12 22:08:23 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I just got a message... Message-ID: ..with the subject "DHCP WORKS!" from one of our Netware admins. The message goes on to explain they have DHCP working on a Netware 5 server. Wow. Guess it's time to move from UNIX to Novell. File, Print, DHCP...who could ask for anything more. ;-) From andyzib at ringworld.org Sun May 13 02:56:04 2001 From: andyzib at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian trees? References: Message-ID: <3AFE3E14.D01414F4@ringworld.org> > Sid == testing > Woody == unstable Think Toy Story... Sid is that rather unstable boy next door... Sid will never be released, it will always be unstable. -- | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | This message is protected by double ROT13 | | encryption. Any attempt to circumvent the | | digital protection is banned by the DMCA. | -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: andyzib.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 2265 bytes Desc: Card for Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010513/415e5b1f/andyzib.vcf From m_nassar at yahoo.com Sun May 13 18:48:32 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LiViD Message-ID: <20010513234832.31710.qmail@web10107.mail.yahoo.com> can anybody get through to linuxvideo.org i keep getting a host unreachable when i ping and links/cvs keep timing out... -munir ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From houle at citilink.com Sun May 13 21:01:20 2001 From: houle at citilink.com (Terry Houle) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Mutual Funds Message-ID: Anybody know if there are any Linux Mutual Funds out there? TIA Terry Houle houle@citilink.com http://www.citilink.com/~houle From houle at citilink.com Sun May 13 21:26:20 2001 From: houle at citilink.com (Terry Houle) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Notebooks & Linux Message-ID: Does anyone have suggestions on where to buy notebooks that would have both Linux and Windows 2000 as a dual boot? Looking for decent quality machine. Terry Houle houle@citilink.com http://www.citilink.com/~houle From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Sun May 13 21:32:05 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian trees? In-Reply-To: ; from ben@nerp.net on Sat, May 12, 2001 at 10:15:13AM -0500 References: <3AFCDE50.91DA9E28@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <20010513213204.A22078@ringworld.org> * Ben Kochie [010512 10:19]: > crap.. i forgot they were moving to that on the FTP. I didn't know they > had actualy done it.. :) rockin.. this should make finding things a hell > of a lot easier. :) :) http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce-0012/msg00004.html This is super-old. Sub to d-d-announce. :) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010513/7ad0a3d6/attachment.pgp From sraun at fireopal.org Sun May 13 21:54:06 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache on Debian and virtual hosts Message-ID: <20010513215406.B15247@iaxs.net> I'm missing something. I'm trying to get Apache 1.3.9 on Debian Potato to support two domains - fireopal.org and ytilaer.com. fireopal.org is the primary domain, and is supposed to be in /var/www. ytilaer.com is the secondary domain, and is supposed to be in /var/www/host.ytilaer.com. It looks like I'm supposed to using the NameVirtualHost directive, and then and delimiters. I've tried two or three variations - I've lost track - and I keep breaking it. Either I get the ytilaer.com index.html when I go to either domain, or I get the fireopal.org index.html when I go to either domain. There was a period of about 10 minutes earlier today when it looked like it was working - but now it's broken again. I have NOT changed any of the LoadModule lines - do I need to uncomment something to get this to work reliably? I'm more than willing to pass along my complete httpd.conf - and any other requested files! - to anyone who'd care to look at them. OK - I just tried uncommenting the vhost_alias_module and issuing an apache restart - makes no difference. I am getting two errors at restart: [warn] _default_ VirtualHost overlap on port 80, the first has precedence [warn] NameVirtualHost *:80 has no VirtualHosts Here's what is - I think - the most relevant chunk of my httpd.conf. NameVirtualHost * ServerAlias fireopal.org *fireopal.org ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org DocumentRoot /var/www/ ServerName www.fireopal.org ErrorLog /var/log/apache/error.log ServerAlias ytilaer.com *.ytilaer.com ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org DocumentRoot /var/www/host.ytilaer.com ServerName www.ytilaer.com ErrorLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-error.log TransferLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-access.log -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From ben at nerp.net Sun May 13 22:35:51 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache on Debian and virtual hosts In-Reply-To: <20010513215406.B15247@iaxs.net> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- hrm.. I don't think you can do a * for Named virtual hosts. have you tried it with just the IP address of the host? also, try doing ServerAlias fireopal.org ServerAlias *fireopal.org I've never seen "NameVirtualHost *" used in any of the docs. Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Sun, 13 May 2001, Scott Raun wrote: > I'm missing something. > > I'm trying to get Apache 1.3.9 on Debian Potato to support two domains > - fireopal.org and ytilaer.com. fireopal.org is the primary domain, > and is supposed to be in /var/www. ytilaer.com is the secondary > domain, and is supposed to be in /var/www/host.ytilaer.com. > > It looks like I'm supposed to using the NameVirtualHost directive, and > then and delimiters. > > I've tried two or three variations - I've lost track - and I keep > breaking it. Either I get the ytilaer.com index.html when I go to > either domain, or I get the fireopal.org index.html when I go to > either domain. There was a period of about 10 minutes earlier today > when it looked like it was working - but now it's broken again. > > I have NOT changed any of the LoadModule lines - do I need to > uncomment something to get this to work reliably? > > I'm more than willing to pass along my complete httpd.conf - and any > other requested files! - to anyone who'd care to look at them. > > OK - I just tried uncommenting the vhost_alias_module and issuing an > apache restart - makes no difference. > > I am getting two errors at restart: > > [warn] _default_ VirtualHost overlap on port 80, the first has precedence > [warn] NameVirtualHost *:80 has no VirtualHosts > > Here's what is - I think - the most relevant chunk of my httpd.conf. > > NameVirtualHost * > > > ServerAlias fireopal.org *fireopal.org > ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org > DocumentRoot /var/www/ > ServerName www.fireopal.org > ErrorLog /var/log/apache/error.log > > > > ServerAlias ytilaer.com *.ytilaer.com > ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org > DocumentRoot /var/www/host.ytilaer.com > ServerName www.ytilaer.com > ErrorLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-error.log > TransferLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-access.log > > > > -- > Scott Raun > sraun@fireopal.org > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOv9SmctpDhsSpvgtAQH7AQP/YB7TEs7FD68BK5Y8HjCJJapbAUPcSXvc hD6rLZvYpHEIOxoAdzANrq4R4VYHeIz/+vFyUjQIK1qnjGFBhff1BND17RpVznV/ 9dNebC7rDCoLxziaQgbNwAsosteCBx8SFHFw5HvjAyhgK0bgiNvi/97ud06kDqT5 bANNYds6rjc= =oFSo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From florin at iucha.net Sun May 13 23:03:23 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Notebooks & Linux In-Reply-To: ; from houle@citilink.com on Sun, May 13, 2001 at 09:26:20PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010513230323.A15479@beaver.iucha.org> On Sun, May 13, 2001 at 09:26:20PM -0500, Terry Houle wrote: > Does anyone have suggestions on where to buy notebooks that would have both > Linux and Windows 2000 as a dual boot? Looking for decent quality machine. > Do it yourself. I have a Toshiba Sattelite and I happily run Win2K (for Quicken) and Linux (for everything else). Or come to a install fest and we can customize it for you :) florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From tanner at real-time.com Sun May 13 23:13:30 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Notebooks & Linux In-Reply-To: <20010513230323.A15479@beaver.iucha.org>; from florin@iucha.net on Sun, May 13, 2001 at 11:03:23PM -0500 References: <20010513230323.A15479@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20010513231330.B3362@real-time.com> Quoting Florin Iucha (florin@iucha.net): > On Sun, May 13, 2001 at 09:26:20PM -0500, Terry Houle wrote: > > Does anyone have suggestions on where to buy notebooks that would have both > > Linux and Windows 2000 as a dual boot? Looking for decent quality machine. > > I have Sony Vaio F-590K and I have the exact config you are talking about Win2K, for games (yes I broke down). And Redhat 7.0 for Linux. Works great. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From ben at nerp.net Sun May 13 23:16:20 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Notebooks & Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- maybe IBM, maybe dell.. most places will do one or the other.. not both.. personaly, I just re-partition and load linux myself.. I have everything except the winmodem working on my thinkpad T21, but I havn't actualy _tried_ to get it working yet. Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Sun, 13 May 2001, Terry Houle wrote: > Does anyone have suggestions on where to buy notebooks that would have both > Linux and Windows 2000 as a dual boot? Looking for decent quality machine. > > > Terry Houle > houle@citilink.com > http://www.citilink.com/~houle > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOv9cFctpDhsSpvgtAQHPwQP/Yr4VB1eTNVpvTrGMZg1TnmjSOcRKXC5v SPe8E5qC9mQoB90bBBrFY5raGfL2nOlpebH9jzz8wYKfB37GF4Yzx8lRvF/ievsb JfBkg42AuclsOVEo1BoBWOWZxyE93SG/QFmLvizUUkYT+d4GphX6xtw+u+xeNQyh Wv2Z0ZG7/xA= =Pedw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From fertch at mninter.net Sun May 13 23:42:13 2001 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Notebooks & Linux References: Message-ID: <3AFF6225.6038CE86@mninter.net> There used to be Tuxtops or something like that, but I do believe that they went out of business. I think they loaded and configured dual boot configurations. Most laptops are Linux compatible. Don't know of too many that aren't really. Personal preferance for me is IBM Thinkpads. I have an older P2-266 that it works fine on. I haven't gotten around to configuring everything on it, but as a base model it works great (running Slackware on it). Ben Kochie wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > maybe IBM, maybe dell.. most places will do one or the other.. not both.. > personaly, I just re-partition and load linux myself.. I have everything > except the winmodem working on my thinkpad T21, but I havn't actualy > _tried_ to get it working yet. From sraun at fireopal.org Mon May 14 06:59:14 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache on Debian and virtual hosts In-Reply-To: ; from ben@nerp.net on Sun, May 13, 2001 at 10:35:51PM -0500 References: <20010513215406.B15247@iaxs.net> Message-ID: <20010514065914.C16493@iaxs.net> According to http://httpd.apache.org/docs/vhosts/examples.html, "Virtual Host examples for common setups", NameVirtualHost will take an * argument. I'll try it with my IP address. Did you mean for those two ServerAlias lines to be separate lines within the same VirtualHost section? On Sun, May 13, 2001 at 10:35:51PM -0500, Ben Kochie wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > hrm.. I don't think you can do a * for Named virtual hosts. have you > tried it with just the IP address of the host? > also, try doing > ServerAlias fireopal.org > ServerAlias *fireopal.org > > I've never seen "NameVirtualHost *" used in any of the docs. > > Thank You, > Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) > > "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." > > On Sun, 13 May 2001, Scott Raun wrote: > > > I'm missing something. > > > > I'm trying to get Apache 1.3.9 on Debian Potato to support two domains > > - fireopal.org and ytilaer.com. fireopal.org is the primary domain, > > and is supposed to be in /var/www. ytilaer.com is the secondary > > domain, and is supposed to be in /var/www/host.ytilaer.com. > > > > It looks like I'm supposed to using the NameVirtualHost directive, and > > then and delimiters. > > > > I've tried two or three variations - I've lost track - and I keep > > breaking it. Either I get the ytilaer.com index.html when I go to > > either domain, or I get the fireopal.org index.html when I go to > > either domain. There was a period of about 10 minutes earlier today > > when it looked like it was working - but now it's broken again. > > > > I have NOT changed any of the LoadModule lines - do I need to > > uncomment something to get this to work reliably? > > > > I'm more than willing to pass along my complete httpd.conf - and any > > other requested files! - to anyone who'd care to look at them. > > > > OK - I just tried uncommenting the vhost_alias_module and issuing an > > apache restart - makes no difference. > > > > I am getting two errors at restart: > > > > [warn] _default_ VirtualHost overlap on port 80, the first has precedence > > [warn] NameVirtualHost *:80 has no VirtualHosts > > > > Here's what is - I think - the most relevant chunk of my httpd.conf. > > > > NameVirtualHost * > > > > > > ServerAlias fireopal.org *fireopal.org > > ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org > > DocumentRoot /var/www/ > > ServerName www.fireopal.org > > ErrorLog /var/log/apache/error.log > > > > > > > > ServerAlias ytilaer.com *.ytilaer.com > > ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org > > DocumentRoot /var/www/host.ytilaer.com > > ServerName www.ytilaer.com > > ErrorLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-error.log > > TransferLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-access.log > > > > > > > > -- > > Scott Raun > > sraun@fireopal.org > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: 2.6.3ia > Charset: noconv > > iQCVAwUBOv9SmctpDhsSpvgtAQH7AQP/YB7TEs7FD68BK5Y8HjCJJapbAUPcSXvc > hD6rLZvYpHEIOxoAdzANrq4R4VYHeIz/+vFyUjQIK1qnjGFBhff1BND17RpVznV/ > 9dNebC7rDCoLxziaQgbNwAsosteCBx8SFHFw5HvjAyhgK0bgiNvi/97ud06kDqT5 > bANNYds6rjc= > =oFSo > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From sraun at fireopal.org Mon May 14 07:05:34 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache on Debian and virtual hosts In-Reply-To: <20010514065914.C16493@iaxs.net>; from sraun@fireopal.org on Mon, May 14, 2001 at 06:59:14AM -0500 References: <20010513215406.B15247@iaxs.net> <20010514065914.C16493@iaxs.net> Message-ID: <20010514070534.D16493@iaxs.net> OK, that got rid of the two [warn] errors. But I'm still getting the same index.html page for both domains. FYI, it's the fireopal.org page that I always get. On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 06:59:14AM -0500, Scott Raun wrote: > According to http://httpd.apache.org/docs/vhosts/examples.html, > "Virtual Host examples for common setups", NameVirtualHost will take > an * argument. > > I'll try it with my IP address. > > Did you mean for those two ServerAlias lines to be separate lines > within the same VirtualHost section? > > On Sun, May 13, 2001 at 10:35:51PM -0500, Ben Kochie wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > > > hrm.. I don't think you can do a * for Named virtual hosts. have you > > tried it with just the IP address of the host? > > also, try doing > > ServerAlias fireopal.org > > ServerAlias *fireopal.org > > > > I've never seen "NameVirtualHost *" used in any of the docs. > > > > Thank You, > > Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) > > > > "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." > > > > On Sun, 13 May 2001, Scott Raun wrote: > > > > > I'm missing something. > > > > > > I'm trying to get Apache 1.3.9 on Debian Potato to support two domains > > > - fireopal.org and ytilaer.com. fireopal.org is the primary domain, > > > and is supposed to be in /var/www. ytilaer.com is the secondary > > > domain, and is supposed to be in /var/www/host.ytilaer.com. > > > > > > It looks like I'm supposed to using the NameVirtualHost directive, and > > > then and delimiters. > > > > > > I've tried two or three variations - I've lost track - and I keep > > > breaking it. Either I get the ytilaer.com index.html when I go to > > > either domain, or I get the fireopal.org index.html when I go to > > > either domain. There was a period of about 10 minutes earlier today > > > when it looked like it was working - but now it's broken again. > > > > > > I have NOT changed any of the LoadModule lines - do I need to > > > uncomment something to get this to work reliably? > > > > > > I'm more than willing to pass along my complete httpd.conf - and any > > > other requested files! - to anyone who'd care to look at them. > > > > > > OK - I just tried uncommenting the vhost_alias_module and issuing an > > > apache restart - makes no difference. > > > > > > I am getting two errors at restart: > > > > > > [warn] _default_ VirtualHost overlap on port 80, the first has precedence > > > [warn] NameVirtualHost *:80 has no VirtualHosts > > > > > > Here's what is - I think - the most relevant chunk of my httpd.conf. > > > > > > NameVirtualHost * > > > > > > > > > ServerAlias fireopal.org *fireopal.org > > > ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org > > > DocumentRoot /var/www/ > > > ServerName www.fireopal.org > > > ErrorLog /var/log/apache/error.log > > > > > > > > > > > > ServerAlias ytilaer.com *.ytilaer.com > > > ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org > > > DocumentRoot /var/www/host.ytilaer.com > > > ServerName www.ytilaer.com > > > ErrorLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-error.log > > > TransferLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-access.log > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Scott Raun > > > sraun@fireopal.org > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Version: 2.6.3ia > > Charset: noconv > > > > iQCVAwUBOv9SmctpDhsSpvgtAQH7AQP/YB7TEs7FD68BK5Y8HjCJJapbAUPcSXvc > > hD6rLZvYpHEIOxoAdzANrq4R4VYHeIz/+vFyUjQIK1qnjGFBhff1BND17RpVznV/ > > 9dNebC7rDCoLxziaQgbNwAsosteCBx8SFHFw5HvjAyhgK0bgiNvi/97ud06kDqT5 > > bANNYds6rjc= > > =oFSo > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- > Scott Raun > sraun@fireopal.org > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From dutchman at uswest.net Mon May 14 08:08:05 2001 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GEdit References: <200105111908.OAA24970@zero.bitstream.net> Message-ID: <3AFFD8B5.98050B32@uswest.net> Man, I would love a version of TextPad for Linux. Since IBM can't get off their dead a$@ on VAJ for Linux, I have been searching for a decent Java development environment. bradyh wrote: > I had that same problem. I "solved" it by downloading and installing > Beaver. Beaver's pretty nice but, like Gedit, it doesn't allow you to turn > off linewrapping. I guess the GTK text control doesn't support that. I'm > this close to going in an trying to rewrite the control myself. I begged > the author of TextPad for a version for Linux but strangely enough he didn't > respond. -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Solutions perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From veldy at veldy.net Mon May 14 08:21:26 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GEdit References: <200105111908.OAA24970@zero.bitstream.net> <3AFFD8B5.98050B32@uswest.net> Message-ID: <004701c0dc78$c8054a30$3028680a@tgt.com> JBuilder works very well. You can download the "Foundation" version for free from Borland. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Perry Hoekstra" To: Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 8:08 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] GEdit > Man, I would love a version of TextPad for Linux. Since IBM can't get off their > dead a$@ on VAJ for Linux, I have been searching for a decent Java development > environment. > > bradyh wrote: > > > I had that same problem. I "solved" it by downloading and installing > > Beaver. Beaver's pretty nice but, like Gedit, it doesn't allow you to turn > > off linewrapping. I guess the GTK text control doesn't support that. I'm > > this close to going in an trying to rewrite the control myself. I begged > > the author of TextPad for a version for Linux but strangely enough he didn't > > respond. > > -- > Perry Hoekstra > E-Commerce Architect > Talent Software Solutions > perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From administrator at ltiflex.com Mon May 14 08:42:03 2001 From: administrator at ltiflex.com (Andy Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache on Debian and virtual hosts References: <20010513215406.B15247@iaxs.net> Message-ID: <3AFFE0AB.7200BA43@ltiflex.com> > NameVirtualHost * > > > ServerAlias fireopal.org *fireopal.org > ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org > DocumentRoot /var/www/ > ServerName www.fireopal.org > ErrorLog /var/log/apache/error.log > > > > ServerAlias ytilaer.com *.ytilaer.com > ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org > DocumentRoot /var/www/host.ytilaer.com > ServerName www.ytilaer.com > ErrorLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-error.log > TransferLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-access.log > I think you need to replace ServerAlias with ServerName. In this example, destiny.ringworld.org is the name of the server. itouthouse.com is the hosted domain. # Virtual Host for itouthouse.com ServerName itouthouse.com DocumentRoot /project/web/itouthouse/ ServerAlias itouthouse.com *.itouthouse.com CustomLog /var/log/apache/access-itouthouse.log combined -- Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH) 763-428-9119 (EX) 132 21801 Industrial Blvd | (FX) 763-428-9126 Rogers, MN 55374 | (PCS) 612-306-6055 From esper at sherohman.org Mon May 14 08:42:18 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache on Debian and virtual hosts In-Reply-To: <20010513215406.B15247@iaxs.net>; from sraun@fireopal.org on Sun, May 13, 2001 at 09:54:06PM -0500 References: <20010513215406.B15247@iaxs.net> Message-ID: <20010514084218.A15040@sherohman.org> On Sun, May 13, 2001 at 09:54:06PM -0500, Scott Raun wrote: > I have NOT changed any of the LoadModule lines - do I need to > uncomment something to get this to work reliably? You shouldn't need to. > NameVirtualHost * > > Comparing your excerpts against the corresponding section of my httpd.conf, I see two potentially significant differences: - You've got *s, I've got an IP address in the NameVirtualHost and hostnames in the individual s - One of your DocumentRoots is contained within the other I'd try changing the *s first. I can't imagine that having one site as a subset of the other would be disallowed. -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.1: GCS d? s+: a- C++ UL++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w---$ O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv b+ DI++++ D G e* h+ r y+ From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Mon May 14 08:46:23 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] CAP/DMT DSL update In-Reply-To: <004701c0dc78$c8054a30$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: I know there were a couple of reports of people who said they got the wrong kind of modem (CAP/DMT) and thus their DSL didn't work right off the bat. With the Cisco 678 (and I imagine the 675 too) you can configure that yourself. You don't even need to resort to windows, just need a copy of tftp (trivial ftp). http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/product/dsl_prod/c600s/c678/678rn.htm#xtocid17553 Just trying to prevent a little grey hair. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From zibby at ringworld.org Mon May 14 08:58:07 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GEdit In-Reply-To: <3AFFD8B5.98050B32@uswest.net> Message-ID: > Man, I would love a version of TextPad for Linux. I was curious, so I gave it a whirl under Wine. It installed and is running just fine. Haven't really done anything with it yet. I'm using CVS wine from late last week. | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From ben at nerp.net Mon May 14 08:57:52 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache on Debian and virtual hosts In-Reply-To: <3AFFE0AB.7200BA43@ltiflex.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- yep.. zibby is right.. you forgot to specify atleast one ServerName for each VirtualHost.. that'd be the problem Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Mon, 14 May 2001, Andy Zbikowski wrote: > > NameVirtualHost * > > > > > > ServerAlias fireopal.org *fireopal.org > > ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org > > DocumentRoot /var/www/ > > ServerName www.fireopal.org > > ErrorLog /var/log/apache/error.log > > > > > > > > ServerAlias ytilaer.com *.ytilaer.com > > ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org > > DocumentRoot /var/www/host.ytilaer.com > > ServerName www.ytilaer.com > > ErrorLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-error.log > > TransferLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-access.log > > > > > I think you need to replace ServerAlias with ServerName. In this example, > destiny.ringworld.org is the name of the server. itouthouse.com is the > hosted domain. > > # Virtual Host for itouthouse.com > > ServerName itouthouse.com > DocumentRoot /project/web/itouthouse/ > ServerAlias itouthouse.com *.itouthouse.com > CustomLog /var/log/apache/access-itouthouse.log combined > > > -- > Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com > LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH) 763-428-9119 (EX) 132 > 21801 Industrial Blvd | (FX) 763-428-9126 > Rogers, MN 55374 | (PCS) 612-306-6055 > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOv/kYstpDhsSpvgtAQFREQP/Wq5bzOYd9QnZPjviDEWhKqHeovIgU7a4 WA44HcuW+b2KTz6Ezu3FGPtFcaw+91FM/B1rW3ax9aNZF5iNHm1DOR/YcXI7r9Xf VW6DqfWWcmib210HdC7/tbbPOIkhbZTzBn8zXzjaiZ2T+3PWBp41Qtf0Y67Ezskt pW2KQstBbTc= =HnZN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dutchman at uswest.net Mon May 14 09:20:43 2001 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GEdit References: Message-ID: <3AFFE9BB.245D6CCC@uswest.net> "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" wrote: > > > Man, I would love a version of TextPad for Linux. > I was curious, so I gave it a whirl under Wine. It installed and is > running just fine. Haven't really done anything with it yet. I'm using CVS > wine from late last week. Thank you for the tip. I also got Textpad running under Wine. Now the problem is getting TextPad to read files sitting on an ext2 extension. -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From sraun at fireopal.org Mon May 14 09:35:35 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache on Debian and virtual hosts In-Reply-To: ; from ben@nerp.net on Mon, May 14, 2001 at 08:57:52AM -0500 References: <3AFFE0AB.7200BA43@ltiflex.com> Message-ID: <20010514093535.A17018@iaxs.net> OK, I've made that change. Now all I need to do is wait for the DNS changes to propagate (or make it home). Hmm - I wonder if... I can! DD-B is providing DNS for me - I logged in to dd-b.net and did a check using lynx. I was able to access both addresses from there - and it's _still_ broken! Wah! Anyone want to take a look at my whole httpd.conf, and see what leaps out at them? On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 08:57:52AM -0500, Ben Kochie wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > yep.. zibby is right.. you forgot to specify atleast one ServerName for > each VirtualHost.. that'd be the problem > > Thank You, > Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) > > "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." > > On Mon, 14 May 2001, Andy Zbikowski wrote: > > > > NameVirtualHost * > > > > > > > > > ServerAlias fireopal.org *fireopal.org > > > ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org > > > DocumentRoot /var/www/ > > > ServerName www.fireopal.org > > > ErrorLog /var/log/apache/error.log > > > > > > > > > > > > ServerAlias ytilaer.com *.ytilaer.com > > > ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org > > > DocumentRoot /var/www/host.ytilaer.com > > > ServerName www.ytilaer.com > > > ErrorLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-error.log > > > TransferLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-access.log > > > > > > > > > I think you need to replace ServerAlias with ServerName. In this example, > > destiny.ringworld.org is the name of the server. itouthouse.com is the > > hosted domain. > > > > # Virtual Host for itouthouse.com > > > > ServerName itouthouse.com > > DocumentRoot /project/web/itouthouse/ > > ServerAlias itouthouse.com *.itouthouse.com > > CustomLog /var/log/apache/access-itouthouse.log combined > > > > > > -- > > Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com > > LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH) 763-428-9119 (EX) 132 > > 21801 Industrial Blvd | (FX) 763-428-9126 > > Rogers, MN 55374 | (PCS) 612-306-6055 > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: 2.6.3ia > Charset: noconv > > iQCVAwUBOv/kYstpDhsSpvgtAQFREQP/Wq5bzOYd9QnZPjviDEWhKqHeovIgU7a4 > WA44HcuW+b2KTz6Ezu3FGPtFcaw+91FM/B1rW3ax9aNZF5iNHm1DOR/YcXI7r9Xf > VW6DqfWWcmib210HdC7/tbbPOIkhbZTzBn8zXzjaiZ2T+3PWBp41Qtf0Y67Ezskt > pW2KQstBbTc= > =HnZN > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From dave at droyer.org Mon May 14 09:37:24 2001 From: dave at droyer.org (David Royer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Address Book Message-ID: Off hand, I don't know. I still use POP3 over ssh for my mail. Looking at the messages on the evolution mail list it looks like there are still some problems occasionally, but I get the feeling that it is working for most people. YMMV, but I'd recommend giving it a try to see if it works for you. Dave On 11 May 2001 13:30:35 -0500, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > Does evolution work well with IMAP? > > Tom Veldhouse > veldy@veldy.net > From austad at marketwatch.com Mon May 14 10:31:03 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache on Debian and virtual hosts Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280777@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Ok, do you want to use the same IP for each site, or do you have different ip's for each site? > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Raun [mailto:sraun@fireopal.org] > Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 9:36 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Apache on Debian and virtual hosts > > > OK, I've made that change. Now all I need to do is wait for the DNS > changes to propagate (or make it home). > > Hmm - I wonder if... > > I can! > > DD-B is providing DNS for me - I logged in to dd-b.net and did a check > using lynx. I was able to access both addresses from there - and it's > _still_ broken! > > Wah! > > Anyone want to take a look at my whole httpd.conf, and see what leaps > out at them? > > On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 08:57:52AM -0500, Ben Kochie wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > > > yep.. zibby is right.. you forgot to specify atleast one > ServerName for > > each VirtualHost.. that'd be the problem > > > > Thank You, > > Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) > > > > "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." > > > > On Mon, 14 May 2001, Andy Zbikowski wrote: > > > > > > NameVirtualHost * > > > > > > > > > > > > ServerAlias fireopal.org *fireopal.org > > > > ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org > > > > DocumentRoot /var/www/ > > > > ServerName www.fireopal.org > > > > ErrorLog /var/log/apache/error.log > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ServerAlias ytilaer.com *.ytilaer.com > > > > ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org > > > > DocumentRoot /var/www/host.ytilaer.com > > > > ServerName www.ytilaer.com > > > > ErrorLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-error.log > > > > TransferLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-access.log > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you need to replace ServerAlias with ServerName. > In this example, > > > destiny.ringworld.org is the name of the server. > itouthouse.com is the > > > hosted domain. > > > > > > # Virtual Host for itouthouse.com > > > > > > ServerName itouthouse.com > > > DocumentRoot /project/web/itouthouse/ > > > ServerAlias itouthouse.com *.itouthouse.com > > > CustomLog /var/log/apache/access-itouthouse.log combined > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com > > > LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH) 763-428-9119 (EX) 132 > > > 21801 Industrial Blvd | (FX) 763-428-9126 > > > Rogers, MN 55374 | (PCS) 612-306-6055 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Version: 2.6.3ia > > Charset: noconv > > > > iQCVAwUBOv/kYstpDhsSpvgtAQFREQP/Wq5bzOYd9QnZPjviDEWhKqHeovIgU7a4 > > WA44HcuW+b2KTz6Ezu3FGPtFcaw+91FM/B1rW3ax9aNZF5iNHm1DOR/YcXI7r9Xf > > VW6DqfWWcmib210HdC7/tbbPOIkhbZTzBn8zXzjaiZ2T+3PWBp41Qtf0Y67Ezskt > > pW2KQstBbTc= > > =HnZN > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- > Scott Raun > sraun@fireopal.org > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From austad at marketwatch.com Mon May 14 10:31:52 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mag stripe reader/writers for linux Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280778@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Anyone know of any cheap magnetic stripe reader/writers that work with linux? Jay From jacque at fruitioninc.com Mon May 14 11:01:10 2001 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Article in the Economist from May 10th Message-ID: This is pretty good article. Nice that it was in the Economist. All of it is stuff most of us know anyways, but the Economist's audience doesn't necessarily.. http://www.economist.com/business/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=620445 ~jacque From administrator at ltiflex.com Mon May 14 11:32:44 2001 From: administrator at ltiflex.com (Andy Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Article in the Economist from May 10th References: Message-ID: <3B0008AC.DB5969E7@ltiflex.com> > http://www.economist.com/business/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=620445 From sraun at fireopal.org Mon May 14 11:36:00 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache on Debian and virtual hosts In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280777@mspexch1.office.mktw.net>; from austad@marketwatch.com on Mon, May 14, 2001 at 10:31:03AM -0500 References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280777@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20010514113600.A17302@iaxs.net> One IP address for both sites. 209.134.132.36 Here it is - I'm going a slowly bonkers! And the fact that ytilaer.com was supposed to be a Mother's Day present for my wife isn't helping - I thought I had it figured out and working! THANKS! On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 10:31:03AM -0500, Austad, Jay wrote: > Ok, do you want to use the same IP for each site, or do you have different > ip's for each site? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Scott Raun [mailto:sraun@fireopal.org] > > Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 9:36 AM > > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Apache on Debian and virtual hosts > > > > > > OK, I've made that change. Now all I need to do is wait for the DNS > > changes to propagate (or make it home). > > > > Hmm - I wonder if... > > > > I can! > > > > DD-B is providing DNS for me - I logged in to dd-b.net and did a check > > using lynx. I was able to access both addresses from there - and it's > > _still_ broken! > > > > Wah! > > > > Anyone want to take a look at my whole httpd.conf, and see what leaps > > out at them? > > > > On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 08:57:52AM -0500, Ben Kochie wrote: > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > > > > > yep.. zibby is right.. you forgot to specify atleast one > > ServerName for > > > each VirtualHost.. that'd be the problem > > > > > > Thank You, > > > Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) > > > > > > "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." > > > > > > On Mon, 14 May 2001, Andy Zbikowski wrote: > > > > > > > > NameVirtualHost * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ServerAlias fireopal.org *fireopal.org > > > > > ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org > > > > > DocumentRoot /var/www/ > > > > > ServerName www.fireopal.org > > > > > ErrorLog /var/log/apache/error.log > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ServerAlias ytilaer.com *.ytilaer.com > > > > > ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org > > > > > DocumentRoot /var/www/host.ytilaer.com > > > > > ServerName www.ytilaer.com > > > > > ErrorLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-error.log > > > > > TransferLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-access.log > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you need to replace ServerAlias with ServerName. > > In this example, > > > > destiny.ringworld.org is the name of the server. > > itouthouse.com is the > > > > hosted domain. > > > > > > > > # Virtual Host for itouthouse.com > > > > > > > > ServerName itouthouse.com > > > > DocumentRoot /project/web/itouthouse/ > > > > ServerAlias itouthouse.com *.itouthouse.com > > > > CustomLog /var/log/apache/access-itouthouse.log combined > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com > > > > LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH) 763-428-9119 (EX) 132 > > > > 21801 Industrial Blvd | (FX) 763-428-9126 > > > > Rogers, MN 55374 | (PCS) 612-306-6055 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > Version: 2.6.3ia > > > Charset: noconv > > > > > > iQCVAwUBOv/kYstpDhsSpvgtAQFREQP/Wq5bzOYd9QnZPjviDEWhKqHeovIgU7a4 > > > WA44HcuW+b2KTz6Ezu3FGPtFcaw+91FM/B1rW3ax9aNZF5iNHm1DOR/YcXI7r9Xf > > > VW6DqfWWcmib210HdC7/tbbPOIkhbZTzBn8zXzjaiZ2T+3PWBp41Qtf0Y67Ezskt > > > pW2KQstBbTc= > > > =HnZN > > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > -- > > Scott Raun > > sraun@fireopal.org > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org -------------- next part -------------- # This is the main server configuration file. See URL http://www.apache.org/ # for instructions. # Do NOT simply read the instructions in here without understanding # what they do, if you are unsure consult the online docs. You have been # warned. # Originally by Rob McCool # Shared Object Module Loading: # To be able to use the functionality of a module which was built # as a shared object you have to place corresponding `LoadModule' # lines at this location so the directives contained in it are # actually available _before_ they are used. # Example: # ServerType is either inetd, or standalone. ServerType standalone # If you are running from inetd, go to "ServerAdmin". # Port: The port the standalone listens to. For ports < 1023, you will # need httpd to be run as root initially. Port 80 # HostnameLookups: Log the names of clients or just their IP numbers # e.g. www.apache.org (on) or 204.62.129.132 (off) # The default is off because it'd be overall better for the net if people # had to knowingly turn this feature on. HostnameLookups off # If you wish httpd to run as a different user or group, you must run # httpd as root initially and it will switch. # User/Group: The name (or #number) of the user/group to run httpd as. # On SCO (ODT 3) use User nouser and Group nogroup # On HPUX you may not be able to use shared memory as nobody, and the # suggested workaround is to create a user www and use that user. User www-data Group www-data # ServerAdmin: Your address, where problems with the server should be # e-mailed. ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org # ServerRoot: The directory the server's config, error, and log files # are kept in. # NOTE! If you intend to place this on a NFS (or otherwise network) # mounted filesystem then please read the LockFile documentation, # you will save yourself a lot of trouble. ServerRoot /etc/apache # BindAddress: You can support virtual hosts with this option. This option # is used to tell the server which IP address to listen to. It can either # contain "*", an IP address, or a fully qualified Internet domain name. # See also the VirtualHost directive. BindAddress * # The Debian package of Apache loads every feature as shared modules. # Please keep this LoadModule: line here, it is needed for installation. LoadModule vhost_alias_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_vhost_alias.so # LoadModule env_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_env.so LoadModule config_log_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_log_config.so # LoadModule mime_magic_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_mime_magic.so LoadModule mime_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_mime.so LoadModule negotiation_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_negotiation.so LoadModule status_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_status.so # LoadModule info_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_info.so # LoadModule includes_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_include.so LoadModule autoindex_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_autoindex.so LoadModule dir_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_dir.so LoadModule cgi_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_cgi.so # LoadModule asis_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_asis.so # LoadModule imap_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_imap.so # LoadModule action_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_actions.so # LoadModule speling_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_speling.so LoadModule userdir_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_userdir.so LoadModule alias_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_alias.so LoadModule rewrite_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_rewrite.so LoadModule access_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_access.so LoadModule auth_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_auth.so # LoadModule anon_auth_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_auth_anon.so # LoadModule dbm_auth_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_auth_dbm.so # LoadModule db_auth_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_auth_db.so # LoadModule proxy_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/libproxy.so # LoadModule digest_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_digest.so # LoadModule cern_meta_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_cern_meta.so LoadModule expires_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_expires.so # LoadModule headers_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_headers.so # LoadModule usertrack_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_usertrack.so LoadModule unique_id_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_unique_id.so LoadModule setenvif_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_setenvif.so # LoadModule sys_auth_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_auth_sys.so # LoadModule put_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_put.so # LoadModule throttle_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_throttle.so # LoadModule allowdev_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_allowdev.so # LoadModule auth_mysql_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_auth_mysql.so # LoadModule pgsql_auth_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_auth_pgsql.so # LoadModule eaccess_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_eaccess.so # LoadModule roaming_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_roaming.so ExtendedStatus on # ErrorLog: The location of the error log file. If this does not start # with /, ServerRoot is prepended to it. ErrorLog /var/log/apache/error.log # LogLevel: Control the number of messages logged to the error_log. # Possible values include: debug, info, notice, warn, error, crit, # alert, emerg. LogLevel warn # The following directives define some format nicknames for use with # a CustomLog directive (see below). LogFormat "%h %l %u %t \"%r\" %>s %b \"%{Referer}i\" \"%{User-Agent}i\" %T %v" full LogFormat "%h %l %u %t \"%r\" %>s %b \"%{Referer}i\" \"%{User-Agent}i\"" combined LogFormat "%h %l %u %t \"%r\" %>s %b" common LogFormat "%{Referer}i -> %U" referer LogFormat "%{User-agent}i" agent # The location of the access logfile (Common Logfile Format). # If this does not start with /, ServerRoot is prepended to it. CustomLog /var/log/apache/access.log common # If you would like to have an agent and referer logfile uncomment the # following directives. #CustomLog /var/log/apache/referer.log referer #CustomLog /var/log/apache/agent.log agent # If you prefer a single logfile with access, agent and referer information # (Combined Logfile Format) you can use the following directive. #CustomLog /var/log/apache/access.log combined # PidFile: The file the server should log its pid to PidFile /var/run/apache.pid # ScoreBoardFile: File used to store internal server process information. # Not all architectures require this. But if yours does (you'll know because # this file is created when you run Apache) then you *must* ensure that # no two invocations of Apache share the same scoreboard file. # ScoreBoardFile logs/apache_runtime_status # The LockFile directive sets the path to the lockfile used when Apache # is compiled with either USE_FCNTL_SERIALIZED_ACCEPT or # USE_FLOCK_SERIALIZED_ACCEPT. This directive should normally be left at # its default value. The main reason for changing it is if the logs # directory is NFS mounted, since the lockfile MUST BE STORED ON A LOCAL # DISK. The PID of the main server process is automatically appended to # the filename. # LockFile /var/run/apache.lock # ServerName allows you to set a host name which is sent back to clients for # your server if it's different than the one the program would get (i.e. use # "www" instead of the host's real name). # # Note: You cannot just invent host names and hope they work. The name you # define here must be a valid DNS name for your host. If you don't understand # this, ask your network administrator. # ServerName www.fireopal.org # UseCanonicalName: (new for 1.3) With this setting turned on, whenever # Apache needs to construct a self-referencing URL (a url that refers back # to the server the response is coming from) it will use ServerName and # Port to form a "canonical" name. With this setting off, Apache will # use the hostname:port that the client supplied, when possible. This # also affects SERVER_NAME and SERVER_PORT in CGIs. UseCanonicalName on # CacheNegotiatedDocs: By default, Apache sends Pragma: no-cache with each # document that was negotiated on the basis of content. This asks proxy # servers not to cache the document. Uncommenting the following line disables # this behavior, and proxies will be allowed to cache the documents. #CacheNegotiatedDocs # Timeout: The number of seconds before receives and sends time out Timeout 300 # KeepAlive: Whether or not to allow persistent connections (more than # one request per connection). Set to "Off" to deactivate. KeepAlive On # MaxKeepAliveRequests: The maximum number of requests to allow # during a persistent connection. Set to 0 to allow an unlimited amount. # We reccomend you leave this number high, for maximum performance. MaxKeepAliveRequests 100 # KeepAliveTimeout: Number of seconds to wait for the next request KeepAliveTimeout 15 # Server-pool size regulation. Rather than making you guess how many # server processes you need, Apache dynamically adapts to the load it # sees --- that is, it tries to maintain enough server processes to # handle the current load, plus a few spare servers to handle transient # load spikes (e.g., multiple simultaneous requests from a single # Netscape browser). # It does this by periodically checking how many servers are waiting # for a request. If there are fewer than MinSpareServers, it creates # a new spare. If there are more than MaxSpareServers, some of the # spares die off. These values are probably OK for most sites --- MinSpareServers 5 MaxSpareServers 10 # Number of servers to start --- should be a reasonable ballpark figure. StartServers 5 # Limit on total number of servers running, i.e., limit on the number # of clients who can simultaneously connect --- if this limit is ever # reached, clients will be LOCKED OUT, so it should NOT BE SET TOO LOW. # It is intended mainly as a brake to keep a runaway server from taking # Unix with it as it spirals down... MaxClients 150 # MaxRequestsPerChild: the number of requests each child process is # allowed to process before the child dies. # The child will exit so as to avoid problems after prolonged use when # Apache (and maybe the libraries it uses) leak. On most systems, this # isn't really needed, but a few (such as Solaris) do have notable leaks # in the libraries. MaxRequestsPerChild 30 # Listen: Allows you to bind Apache to specific IP addresses and/or # ports, in addition to the default. See also the VirtualHost command #Listen 3000 #Listen 12.34.56.78:80 # VirtualHost: Allows the daemon to respond to requests for more than one # server address, if your server machine is configured to accept IP packets # for multiple addresses. This can be accomplished with the ifconfig # alias flag, or through kernel patches like VIF. # Any httpd.conf or srm.conf directive may go into a VirtualHost command. # See also the BindAddress entry. # #ServerAdmin webmaster@host.some_domain.com #DocumentRoot /var/www/host.some_domain.com #ServerName host.some_domain.com #ErrorLog /var/log/apache/host.some_domain.com-error.log #TransferLog /var/log/apache/host.some_domain.com-access.log # NameVirtualHost 209.134.132.36 ServerName www.fireopal.org ServerAlias fireopal.org ServerAlias *fireopal.org ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org DocumentRoot /var/www/ ServerName www.fireopal.org ErrorLog /var/log/apache/error.log ServerName www.ytilaer.com ServerAlias ytilaer.com ServerAlias *.ytilaer.com ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org DocumentRoot /var/www/host.ytilaer.com ServerName www.ytilaer.com ErrorLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-error.log TransferLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-access.log From bradyh at bitstream.net Mon May 14 11:36:30 2001 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (bradyh) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sendmail Configuration Question In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280778@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280778@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <200105141636.LAA01607@zero.bitstream.net> I'm unable to send mail out of my Redhat 7.1 box. I tried with Evolution and with "Mail" at the console. It seems to be because it's trying to send mail out through the Exchange server but our Exchange server is set up with a port other than 25. Can someone tell me how to set it up so it sends the mail to exchange at a different port? Or where to find more information on this? Thanks, Brady From sraun at fireopal.org Mon May 14 11:38:52 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache on Debian and virtual hosts In-Reply-To: <20010514113600.A17302@iaxs.net>; from sraun on Mon, May 14, 2001 at 11:36:00AM -0500 References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280777@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> <20010514113600.A17302@iaxs.net> Message-ID: <20010514113852.B17302@iaxs.net> Eeps! Apologies to the list - I thought I'd sent this reply only to Jay. On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 11:36:00AM -0500, sraun wrote: > One IP address for both sites. 209.134.132.36 > > Here it is - I'm going a slowly bonkers! And the fact that ytilaer.com > was supposed to be a Mother's Day present for my wife isn't helping - > I thought I had it figured out and working! > > THANKS! -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From veldy at veldy.net Mon May 14 12:03:24 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] CAP/DMT DSL update References: Message-ID: <000801c0dc97$ca0ac610$3028680a@tgt.com> The CISCO 675 is not capable of DMT, reguardless of the CMOS version it is running. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Mendelsohn" To: Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 8:46 AM Subject: [TCLUG] CAP/DMT DSL update > I know there were a couple of reports of people who said they got the > wrong kind of modem (CAP/DMT) and thus their DSL didn't work right off the > bat. With the Cisco 678 (and I imagine the 675 too) you can configure > that yourself. You don't even need to resort to windows, just need a copy > of tftp (trivial ftp). > > http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/product/dsl_prod/c600s/c678/678rn.ht m#xtocid17553 > > Just trying to prevent a little grey hair. > > > -- > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Mon May 14 12:09:12 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] CAP/DMT DSL update In-Reply-To: <000801c0dc97$ca0ac610$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 May 2001, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > The CISCO 675 is not capable of DMT, reguardless of the CMOS version it is > running. Oh, *that's* why they're going to the 678's. (btw, I was close but not quite: CAP = Carrierless Amplitude/Phase) So people that need DMT but got a 675 might still need to swap hardware. Bummer. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Mon May 14 12:13:42 2001 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Mutual Funds In-Reply-To: ; from houle@citilink.com on Sun, May 13, 2001 at 09:01:20PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010514121342.A4173@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Sun, May 13, 2001 at 09:01:20PM -0500, Terry Houle wrote: > Anybody know if there are any Linux Mutual Funds out there? I hope not. Seems its way too narrow of a market. You'd be better off just investing in individual stocks, probably. -- Jim Crumley | crumley@fields.space.umn.edu | Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378 | From dd-b at dd-b.net Mon May 14 12:18:48 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #979 - 15 msgs In-Reply-To: <3AFD436C.32119.28E487@localhost> References: <3AFD436C.32119.28E487@localhost> Message-ID: spencer@sihope.com writes: > Then to exploit the situation by sowing the seeds of capitalism you > further pervet the sanctity of knowledge. We are all connected as > humankind just as the filesystem is connected by the / . You mean, like, in a strict hierarchy? ;-) -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From zibby at ringworld.org Mon May 14 12:19:11 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache on Debian and virtual hosts In-Reply-To: <20010514113852.B17302@iaxs.net> Message-ID: Well, here's what Scott had: NameVirtualHost 209.134.132.36 ServerName www.fireopal.org ServerAlias fireopal.org ServerAlias *fireopal.org ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org DocumentRoot /var/www/ ServerName www.fireopal.org ErrorLog /var/log/apache/error.log ServerName www.ytilaer.com ServerAlias ytilaer.com ServerAlias *.ytilaer.com ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org DocumentRoot /var/www/host.ytilaer.com ServerName www.ytilaer.com ErrorLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-error.log TransferLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-access.log Here is what I think should work: NameVirtualHost 209.134.132.36 ServerName fireopal.org ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org DocumentRoot /var/www/ ErrorLog /var/log/apache/error.log ServerName ytilaer.com ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org DocumentRoot /var/www/host.ytilaer.com ErrorLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-error.log TransferLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-access.log Corrections: 1> Specify port 2> ServerAliais and duplicate ServerName removed. 3> Shortened ServerName to just the domain so that anything.fireopal.org or anything.ytilaer.com pointed to his IP will pull up the correct page. Unresolved Question (not important to get a working apache, might be nice to have a cleaner config): [andyzb@chewie:~]# host 209.134.132.36 Name: sraun.static.iaxs.net Address: 209.134.132.36 As it stands, 209.134.132.36 or sraun.static.iaxs.net are useable in the NameVirtualHost and VirtualHost options. I think you can use anything you want if you add the correct entries in /etc/hosts. Am I wrong? He couldn't use host.fireopal.org if reverse-dns isn't setup or it isn't defined in /etc/hosts. Or does host.fireopal.net just need to be a dns entry (not reverse dns)? | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From austad at marketwatch.com Mon May 14 12:22:15 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache on Debian and virtual hosts Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628077A@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Ok, I made a couple of changes. Make a new directory for fireopal as specified in this modified file and move the fireopal site into it. You also had multiple declarations of ServerName and ServerAlias, which I removed. If this works, you can try adding the *.fireopal.com to the ServerAlias Line. Don't add a new line, just put a space between what's already there, and tack it onto the same line. It's set up exactly like mine now, so if it doesn't work, I have no idea why. :) Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Raun [mailto:sraun@fireopal.org] > Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 11:36 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Apache on Debian and virtual hosts > > > One IP address for both sites. 209.134.132.36 > > Here it is - I'm going a slowly bonkers! And the fact that ytilaer.com > was supposed to be a Mother's Day present for my wife isn't helping - > I thought I had it figured out and working! > > THANKS! > > On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 10:31:03AM -0500, Austad, Jay wrote: > > Ok, do you want to use the same IP for each site, or do you > have different > > ip's for each site? > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Scott Raun [mailto:sraun@fireopal.org] > > > Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 9:36 AM > > > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Apache on Debian and virtual hosts > > > > > > > > > OK, I've made that change. Now all I need to do is wait > for the DNS > > > changes to propagate (or make it home). > > > > > > Hmm - I wonder if... > > > > > > I can! > > > > > > DD-B is providing DNS for me - I logged in to dd-b.net > and did a check > > > using lynx. I was able to access both addresses from > there - and it's > > > _still_ broken! > > > > > > Wah! > > > > > > Anyone want to take a look at my whole httpd.conf, and > see what leaps > > > out at them? > > > > > > On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 08:57:52AM -0500, Ben Kochie wrote: > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > > > > > > > yep.. zibby is right.. you forgot to specify atleast one > > > ServerName for > > > > each VirtualHost.. that'd be the problem > > > > > > > > Thank You, > > > > Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) > > > > > > > > "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." > > > > > > > > On Mon, 14 May 2001, Andy Zbikowski wrote: > > > > > > > > > > NameVirtualHost * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ServerAlias fireopal.org *fireopal.org > > > > > > ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org > > > > > > DocumentRoot /var/www/ > > > > > > ServerName www.fireopal.org > > > > > > ErrorLog /var/log/apache/error.log > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ServerAlias ytilaer.com *.ytilaer.com > > > > > > ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org > > > > > > DocumentRoot /var/www/host.ytilaer.com > > > > > > ServerName www.ytilaer.com > > > > > > ErrorLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-error.log > > > > > > TransferLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-access.log > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you need to replace ServerAlias with ServerName. > > > In this example, > > > > > destiny.ringworld.org is the name of the server. > > > itouthouse.com is the > > > > > hosted domain. > > > > > > > > > > # Virtual Host for itouthouse.com > > > > > > > > > > ServerName itouthouse.com > > > > > DocumentRoot /project/web/itouthouse/ > > > > > ServerAlias itouthouse.com *.itouthouse.com > > > > > CustomLog /var/log/apache/access-itouthouse.log combined > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com > > > > > LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH) 763-428-9119 (EX) 132 > > > > > 21801 Industrial Blvd | (FX) 763-428-9126 > > > > > Rogers, MN 55374 | (PCS) 612-306-6055 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > Version: 2.6.3ia > > > > Charset: noconv > > > > > > > > iQCVAwUBOv/kYstpDhsSpvgtAQFREQP/Wq5bzOYd9QnZPjviDEWhKqHeovIgU7a4 > > > > WA44HcuW+b2KTz6Ezu3FGPtFcaw+91FM/B1rW3ax9aNZF5iNHm1DOR/YcXI7r9Xf > > > > VW6DqfWWcmib210HdC7/tbbPOIkhbZTzBn8zXzjaiZ2T+3PWBp41Qtf0Y67Ezskt > > > > pW2KQstBbTc= > > > > =HnZN > > > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > -- > > > Scott Raun > > > sraun@fireopal.org > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- > Scott Raun > sraun@fireopal.org > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: httpd.scott Type: application/octet-stream Size: 11598 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010514/5725cff8/httpd.obj From clay at fandre.com Mon May 14 12:31:18 2001 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sendmail Configuration Question References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280778@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> <200105141636.LAA01607@zero.bitstream.net> Message-ID: <3B001666.87ED461D@fandre.com> bradyh wrote: > > I'm unable to send mail out of my Redhat 7.1 box. I tried with Evolution > and with "Mail" at the console. It seems to be because it's trying to send > mail out through the Exchange server but our Exchange server is set up with > a port other than 25. Can someone tell me how to set it up so it sends the > mail to exchange at a different port? Or where to find more information on > this? Why is it trying to send out through the Exchange server? Set your outgoing mail server to be localhost and it should work. From duncan at sodatrain.com Mon May 14 11:42:51 2001 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (duncan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] bare bones boxes In-Reply-To: <20010514121342.A4173@gordo.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: can anyone reccomend a good place to buy a bare bones box? im looking for somethin (pre-asemebled or kit) for under $300, and price watch has a few places listed with a pIII/600+ for less than $300... i was just wondering if anyone had a place they have worked with and were successful with... esp. for hardware compat. thx -- || || || || || || duncan shannon duncan@sodatrain.com From chrome at real-time.com Mon May 14 12:49:44 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apology In-Reply-To: <00a301c0da6b$10d4a0e0$5a9a0ace@ancor.com>; from drew@usfamily.net on Fri, May 11, 2001 at 03:37:50PM -0700 References: <00a301c0da6b$10d4a0e0$5a9a0ace@ancor.com> Message-ID: <20010514124944.E4412@real-time.com> > There is lots of Outlook bashing going on lately, but has anyone considered > tunring to Eudora? been there, tried it, used it at my last job until I convinced them to buy me a copy of Agent. :) Agent is the *best* (IMHO) mailer out there for Windows. it's very stable, doesn't read Virus Basic attachments, is *incredibly* fast even on large mailboxes, and has the best user interface I've seen in a mail/news client. it was originally designed as a news client (Free Agent); but it's not a far step from that to mail; and it is *very* good with mail. since it comes from a news client: - it doesn't choke on huge attachments like OutCrook does (doesn't time out, even if it takes 15 mins or more to DL something). - reads large mailboxes/newsgroups amazingly quickly (it ran faster under Windows on my P166, than Pan has (even recently) on my 1.1GHz Linux box). it's very configureable (you can change the button layout in the toolbar freely); and the keybindings are very sensible. it's amazingly fast to use, because you almost never need to click on anything; all the important commands are bound to hotkeys. no other mailer I've seen is like that. (at least under Windows). you can get a 30-day evaluation at www.forteinc.com this program is why I didn't switch to Linux 2 or 3 years earlier than I did. I wrote the company recently; and they didn't completely dismiss the idea of a linux port, as they had in the past. I'm not sure how valuable it would be, tho; since there are a number of promising Linux GUI mail clients out there; but it would be cool to see it ported, nonetheless. I'd buy a copy just because it's a cool program. :) Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From zibby at ringworld.org Mon May 14 13:01:23 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apology In-Reply-To: <20010514124944.E4412@real-time.com> Message-ID: > I wrote the company recently; and they didn't completely dismiss the idea of > a linux port, as they had in the past. I'm not sure how valuable it would > be, tho; since there are a number of promising Linux GUI mail clients out > there; but it would be cool to see it ported, nonetheless. I'd buy a copy > just because it's a cool program. :) Promising if you're not looking for an IMAP client anyway. Definitly no shortabe of pop3 clients, but the number starts to dwindle when you look for pop3 + ssl. One of these days I ma just have to sit down and write a mail client that I'll be 100% happy with and everybody else will hate. :) | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From veldy at veldy.net Mon May 14 13:01:35 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] bare bones boxes References: Message-ID: <004a01c0dc9f$eae4d530$3028680a@tgt.com> Buy what you need at Tranmicro or General Nanosystems. Buy the parts and you can choose just how barebones you want it. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "duncan" To: Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 11:42 AM Subject: [TCLUG] bare bones boxes > can anyone reccomend a good place to buy a bare bones box? im looking for > somethin (pre-asemebled or kit) for under $300, and price watch has a few > places listed with a pIII/600+ for less than $300... i was just wondering > if anyone had a place they have worked with and were successful with... > esp. for hardware compat. > > thx > > -- > || || || || || || > duncan shannon > duncan@sodatrain.com > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From bradyh at bitstream.net Mon May 14 13:22:55 2001 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (Brady Hegberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GEdit In-Reply-To: <3AFFD8B5.98050B32@uswest.net> References: <200105111908.OAA24970@zero.bitstream.net> <3AFFD8B5.98050B32@uswest.net> Message-ID: <989864575.1183.4.camel@lis.llewellyn.com> FYI: I found another text editor I like called "moleskine". It's a bit beta but I like it very much so far. http://www.moleskine.f2s.com Brady > Man, I would love a version of TextPad for Linux. Since IBM can't get off their > dead a$@ on VAJ for Linux, I have been searching for a decent Java development > environment. > > bradyh wrote: > > > I had that same problem. I "solved" it by downloading and installing > > Beaver. Beaver's pretty nice but, like Gedit, it doesn't allow you to turn > > off linewrapping. I guess the GTK text control doesn't support that. I'm > > this close to going in an trying to rewrite the control myself. I begged > > the author of TextPad for a version for Linux but strangely enough he didn't > > respond. > > -- > Perry Hoekstra > E-Commerce Architect > Talent Software Solutions > perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From austad at marketwatch.com Mon May 14 13:23:52 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apology Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628077C@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> > Agent is the *best* (IMHO) mailer out there for Windows. it's > very stable, > doesn't read Virus Basic attachments, is *incredibly* fast > even on large > mailboxes, Will it work with mine: Your mailbox has exceeded one or more size limits set by your administrator. Your mailbox size is 437569 KB. Mailbox size limits: You will receive a warning when your mailbox reaches 420000 KB. I have about 45,000 messages. That's after I deleted most of the useless stuff. :) Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom [mailto:chrome@real-time.com] > Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 12:50 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Apology > > > > There is lots of Outlook bashing going on lately, but has > anyone considered > > tunring to Eudora? > > been there, tried it, used it at my last job until I > convinced them to buy > me a copy of Agent. :) > > Agent is the *best* (IMHO) mailer out there for Windows. it's > very stable, > doesn't read Virus Basic attachments, is *incredibly* fast > even on large > mailboxes, and has the best user interface I've seen in a > mail/news client. > > it was originally designed as a news client (Free Agent); but > it's not a far > step from that to mail; and it is *very* good with mail. > > since it comes from a news client: > - it doesn't choke on huge attachments like OutCrook does > (doesn't time out, > even if it takes 15 mins or more to DL something). > - reads large mailboxes/newsgroups amazingly quickly (it ran > faster under > Windows on my P166, than Pan has (even recently) on my > 1.1GHz Linux box). > > it's very configureable (you can change the button layout in > the toolbar > freely); and the keybindings are very sensible. it's > amazingly fast to use, > because you almost never need to click on anything; all the important > commands are bound to hotkeys. no other mailer I've seen is > like that. (at > least under Windows). > > you can get a 30-day evaluation at www.forteinc.com > > this program is why I didn't switch to Linux 2 or 3 years > earlier than I > did. > I wrote the company recently; and they didn't completely > dismiss the idea of > a linux port, as they had in the past. I'm not sure how > valuable it would > be, tho; since there are a number of promising Linux GUI mail > clients out > there; but it would be cool to see it ported, nonetheless. > I'd buy a copy > just because it's a cool program. :) > > Carl Soderstrom > -- > Network Engineer > Real-Time Enterprises > (952) 943-8700 > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From austad at marketwatch.com Mon May 14 13:25:04 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] bare bones boxes Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628077D@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Or just use http://www.pricescan.com to find the best prices. mwave.com is usually a good place to buy all of your parts from, they are cheap, and since you buy it all from them, you save on shipping. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Thomas T. Veldhouse [mailto:veldy@veldy.net] > Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 1:02 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] bare bones boxes > > > Buy what you need at Tranmicro or General Nanosystems. Buy > the parts and > you can choose just how barebones you want it. > > Tom Veldhouse > veldy@veldy.net > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "duncan" > To: > Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 11:42 AM > Subject: [TCLUG] bare bones boxes > > > > can anyone reccomend a good place to buy a bare bones box? > im looking for > > somethin (pre-asemebled or kit) for under $300, and price > watch has a few > > places listed with a pIII/600+ for less than $300... i was > just wondering > > if anyone had a place they have worked with and were > successful with... > > esp. for hardware compat. > > > > thx > > > > -- > > || || || || || || > > duncan shannon > > duncan@sodatrain.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From florin at iucha.net Mon May 14 13:23:53 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apology In-Reply-To: ; from zibby@ringworld.org on Mon, May 14, 2001 at 01:01:23PM -0500 References: <20010514124944.E4412@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010514132353.A14460@beaver.iucha.org> On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 01:01:23PM -0500, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > > I wrote the company recently; and they didn't completely dismiss the idea of > > a linux port, as they had in the past. I'm not sure how valuable it would > > be, tho; since there are a number of promising Linux GUI mail clients out > > there; but it would be cool to see it ported, nonetheless. I'd buy a copy > > just because it's a cool program. :) > > Promising if you're not looking for an IMAP client anyway. Definitly no > shortabe of pop3 clients, but the number starts to dwindle when you look > for pop3 + ssl. > > One of these days I ma just have to sit down and write a mail client that > I'll be 100% happy with and everybody else will hate. :) > Or just join the mutt group. florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From alborchers at steinerpoint.com Mon May 14 13:54:00 2001 From: alborchers at steinerpoint.com (Al Borchers) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #975 - 18 msgs References: <200105110525.f4B5Pek10938@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B0029C8.70DAB763@steinerpoint.com> Simeon Johnston wrote: > I am trying to resize a partition on my HD. Having some trouble. > I don't want to go out and buy Partition Magic. I am trying to use FIPS > but I can only find the DOS binary. Is there a linux binary or is this > DOS only? I have used parted with success. It runs on linux, comes with a boot disk, too, resizes, moves, and copies partitions (with some limitations), and its GPL. Its at http://www.gnu.org/software/parted. -- Al From jamie at getsetnet.net Mon May 14 13:38:50 2001 From: jamie at getsetnet.net (Jamie Ostrowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] bare bones boxes In-Reply-To: <004a01c0dc9f$eae4d530$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: I would also suggest General Nanosystems. I just put together a bare bones 700 MHz AMD Duron with a 10 Meg drive, 256 Megs of ram for $500. Cam e with an on-board nic that works well with FreeBSD. - Jamie On Mon, 14 May 2001, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > Buy what you need at Tranmicro or General Nanosystems. Buy the parts and > you can choose just how barebones you want it. > > Tom Veldhouse > veldy@veldy.net > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "duncan" > To: > Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 11:42 AM > Subject: [TCLUG] bare bones boxes > > > > can anyone reccomend a good place to buy a bare bones box? im looking for > > somethin (pre-asemebled or kit) for under $300, and price watch has a few > > places listed with a pIII/600+ for less than $300... i was just wondering > > if anyone had a place they have worked with and were successful with... > > esp. for hardware compat. > > > > thx > > > > -- > > || || || || || || > > duncan shannon > > duncan@sodatrain.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- "It's pretty hard to stop a man who eats his toast every morning." From administrator at ltiflex.com Mon May 14 14:37:44 2001 From: administrator at ltiflex.com (Andy Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:57 2005 Subject: Mail Clients (Was Re: [TCLUG] Apology) References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628077C@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <3B003408.29D2A38@ltiflex.com> Well, Agent does run under Wine. C'mon Jay, stress test agent+wine for us. Hehehe. Sorry, being amused with wine today. Hmmm...maybe I can get Counter-Strike working. -- Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH) 763-428-9119 (EX) 132 21801 Industrial Blvd | (FX) 763-428-9126 Rogers, MN 55374 | (PCS) 612-306-6055 From BTimm at Interelate.com Mon May 14 14:38:51 2001 From: BTimm at Interelate.com (Brad Timm) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] bare bones boxes Message-ID: 10 meg drive and 256 meg of ram? What are you using this for? (bet he ment Gig) -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Ostrowski [mailto:jamie@getsetnet.net] Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 1:39 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] bare bones boxes I would also suggest General Nanosystems. I just put together a bare bones 700 MHz AMD Duron with a 10 Meg drive, 256 Megs of ram for $500. Cam e with an on-board nic that works well with FreeBSD. - Jamie On Mon, 14 May 2001, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > Buy what you need at Tranmicro or General Nanosystems. Buy the parts and > you can choose just how barebones you want it. > > Tom Veldhouse > veldy@veldy.net > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "duncan" > To: > Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 11:42 AM > Subject: [TCLUG] bare bones boxes > > > > can anyone reccomend a good place to buy a bare bones box? im looking for > > somethin (pre-asemebled or kit) for under $300, and price watch has a few > > places listed with a pIII/600+ for less than $300... i was just wondering > > if anyone had a place they have worked with and were successful with... > > esp. for hardware compat. > > > > thx > > > > -- > > || || || || || || > > duncan shannon > > duncan@sodatrain.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- "It's pretty hard to stop a man who eats his toast every morning." _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blayer at qwest.net Mon May 14 14:43:06 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] bare bones boxes In-Reply-To: References: <004a01c0dc9f$eae4d530$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: <20010514144306.0d7a0ef4.blayer@qwest.net> On Mon, 14 May 2001 13:38:50 -0500 (CDT) "Jamie Ostrowski" wrote: > > > I would also suggest General Nanosystems. I just put together a bare > bones 700 MHz AMD Duron with a 10 Meg drive, 256 Megs of ram for $500. Cam > e with an on-board nic that works well with FreeBSD. For what this is worth, Gen nano will sell you a Duron 700, with hs & fan on a PC Chips M807 board for $149.00. Normally I'd shudder at PC Chips, but this is a very decent design as far as PC Chips goes; no crap built in (except sound, which is Linux-compatible AC97 I believe, and can be disabled) 1 AGP slot, 6 PCI slots and NO worthless AMR slot. I'm going to buy one myself in a week or two to build a second system on-the-cheap. -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From blayer at qwest.net Mon May 14 14:46:32 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] bare bones boxes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010514144632.0a045244.blayer@qwest.net> Ok, I take it back - I just looked at the M807 and it *does* have the AMR slot, and only 5 PCI.. Did they change this board, I don't remember it being like that...? -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From duncan at sodatrain.com Mon May 14 14:00:58 2001 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (duncan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] dmoz tclug style In-Reply-To: <20010514144306.0d7a0ef4.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: asking for advice seems to be a pretty frequent thing on this (as well as other) list. It seems to me that it would be of some value to me and prob. others if were were to create a link db of our favorite resources, broken into categories like dmoz. I could prob. just use dmoz, but maybe (i would guess so) its easy to create, and there is some interest.... we could have a buy stuff > hardware > systems > bare bones category, as well as powerhouse box, servers, desktops, blah blah blah blah. all created and reccomended by the TCLUG'ers. Ill bet this would be valueable to other people, and _could_ keep traffic off of the list for stuff like my last request. any thoughts? ideas? duncan -- || || || || || || duncan shannon duncan@sodatrain.com From veldy at veldy.net Mon May 14 14:53:51 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] bare bones boxes References: <20010514144632.0a045244.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <001801c0dcaf$99638e80$3028680a@tgt.com> You want to ditch the AMR slot? Buy the ABIT KT7 boards. The remove the AMR slot and add an extra DIMM to make 4 :) Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Layer" To: Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 2:46 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] bare bones boxes > Ok, I take it back - I just looked at the M807 and it *does* have the AMR > slot, and only 5 PCI.. Did they change this board, I don't remember it > being like that...? > > -.bill.layer.- > > -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- > > -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From scanman at mninter.net Mon May 14 15:02:28 2001 From: scanman at mninter.net (ScanMan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GEdit References: <3AFFE9BB.245D6CCC@uswest.net> Message-ID: <3B0039D4.8050104@mninter.net> That is easy. Just add this to the drives section of your ~/.wine/config [Drive X] "Path" = "/" "type" = "hd" "Lable" = "Root FS" "Filesystem" = "win95" Perry Hoekstra wrote: >Thank you for the tip. I also got Textpad running under Wine. Now the >problem is getting TextPad to read files sitting on an ext2 extension. > From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Mon May 14 15:01:12 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] dmoz tclug style In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 14 May 2001, duncan wrote: > Ill bet this would be valueable to > other people, and _could_ keep traffic off of the list for stuff like my > last request. > > any thoughts? ideas? Why do we want to keep list traffic down?? I generally don't like to be subscribed to low volume lists -- they're dull. Maybe a meeting topic would be "Better Living through Procmail, or How I Learned to Love the Bomb?" -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From chrome at real-time.com Mon May 14 15:04:07 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:57 2005 Subject: Mail Clients (Was Re: [TCLUG] Apology) In-Reply-To: <3B003408.29D2A38@ltiflex.com>; from administrator@ltiflex.com on Mon, May 14, 2001 at 02:37:44PM -0500 References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628077C@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> <3B003408.29D2A38@ltiflex.com> Message-ID: <20010514150407.D31122@real-time.com> > Well, Agent does run under Wine. C'mon Jay, stress test agent+wine for us. > Hehehe. Sorry, being amused with wine today. Hmmm...maybe I can get > Counter-Strike working. Agent is actually supposed to run rather well under WINE... _supposed to_ being the operative terms here. :) I did get it to run; but it locked solid when I tried to do anything involving the network. that was a good long time ago, tho; and I hear WINE is a lot better now. Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From sraun at fireopal.org Mon May 14 15:06:17 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache on Debian and virtual hosts In-Reply-To: ; from zibby@ringworld.org on Mon, May 14, 2001 at 12:19:11PM -0500 References: <20010514113852.B17302@iaxs.net> Message-ID: <20010514150617.A18302@iaxs.net> Waahhh! :-( I tried both Andy's and Jay's solutions, and NEITHER ONE WORKED! Well, given their hints, I'm off to apache.org to see if I can decipher anything there better now. -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From chrome at real-time.com Mon May 14 15:07:50 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apology In-Reply-To: ; from zibby@ringworld.org on Mon, May 14, 2001 at 01:01:23PM -0500 References: <20010514124944.E4412@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010514150750.E31122@real-time.com> > Promising if you're not looking for an IMAP client anyway. Definitly no > shortabe of pop3 clients, but the number starts to dwindle when you look > for pop3 + ssl. yeah; it supports SMTP auth; but SIMAP and SPOP support isn't implemented yet. their support line said that those would be 'nice features' for 2.0; but might not make it. > One of these days I ma just have to sit down and write a mail client that > I'll be 100% happy with and everybody else will hate. :) someone postulated that all good programmers eventually write a mail client of their own. (or more commonly; try to and give up). this sort of goes along with the theory that all programs, given sufficient time, will expand to encompass the ability to read e-mail... Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From duncan at sodatrain.com Mon May 14 14:17:09 2001 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (duncan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] dmoz tclug style In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 14 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On Mon, 14 May 2001, duncan wrote: > > > Ill bet this would be valueable to > > other people, and _could_ keep traffic off of the list for stuff like my > > last request. > > > > any thoughts? ideas? > > Why do we want to keep list traffic down?? I generally don't like to be > subscribed to low volume lists -- they're dull. i guess the main objective wasnt to keep traffic down, but to collect and organize the links that we all suggest. > > Maybe a meeting topic would be "Better Living through Procmail, or How I > Learned to Love the Bomb?" > > -- || || || || || || duncan shannon duncan@sodatrain.com From chrome at real-time.com Mon May 14 15:08:54 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apology In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628077C@mspexch1.office.mktw.net>; from austad@marketwatch.com on Mon, May 14, 2001 at 01:23:52PM -0500 References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628077C@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20010514150854.F31122@real-time.com> > Will it work with mine: > > Your mailbox has exceeded one or more size limits set by your administrator. > Your mailbox size is 437569 KB. > Mailbox size limits: > You will receive a warning when your mailbox reaches 420000 KB. > > I have about 45,000 messages. That's after I deleted most of the useless > stuff. :) don't see why not. :) Carl Soderstrom. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From homebrewmike at yahoo.com Mon May 14 15:23:12 2001 From: homebrewmike at yahoo.com (Mike White) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] dmoz tclug style Message-ID: <20010514202312.27219.qmail@web10206.mail.yahoo.com> How about a Wiki Wiki Web rather than a DMOZ? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From dutchman at uswest.net Mon May 14 15:21:49 2001 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GEdit References: <3AFFE9BB.245D6CCC@uswest.net> <3B0039D4.8050104@mninter.net> Message-ID: <3B003E5D.85317085@uswest.net> ScanMan wrote: > > That is easy. Just add this to the drives section of your ~/.wine/config > > [Drive X] > "Path" = "/" > "type" = "hd" > "Lable" = "Root FS" > "Filesystem" = "win95" Tried that, does not want to show an "X" drive, only the two true vfat directories: C & E -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From duncan at sodatrain.com Mon May 14 14:38:27 2001 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (duncan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] dmoz tclug style In-Reply-To: <20010514202312.27219.qmail@web10206.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 May 2001, Mike White wrote: > How about a Wiki Wiki Web rather than a DMOZ? thoes are cool too. that could get pretty funky if we all had access to it! It would prob. be pretty fun. -- || || || || || || duncan shannon duncan@sodatrain.com From andy at theasis.com Mon May 14 15:30:31 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] dmoz tclug style In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > i guess the main objective wasnt to keep traffic down, but to collect and > organize the links that we all suggest. Some collection of links accessible from the main TCLUG web site would be pretty useful, if people knew about them and were sufficiently not-lazy to actually use them. It could also be a nice contribution to the linux community, not just a local thing. Andy From kipboe at mediaone.net Mon May 14 15:31:45 2001 From: kipboe at mediaone.net (kip) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] bare bones boxes References: Message-ID: <006b01c0dcb4$e4933310$1000a8c0@god> Check out www.newegg.com great prices and reasonable shipping too. ----- Original Message ----- From: "duncan" To: Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 11:42 AM Subject: [TCLUG] bare bones boxes > can anyone reccomend a good place to buy a bare bones box? im looking for > somethin (pre-asemebled or kit) for under $300, and price watch has a few > places listed with a pIII/600+ for less than $300... i was just wondering > if anyone had a place they have worked with and were successful with... > esp. for hardware compat. > > thx > > -- > || || || || || || > duncan shannon > duncan@sodatrain.com > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From esper at sherohman.org Mon May 14 15:40:39 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apology In-Reply-To: <20010514150750.E31122@real-time.com>; from chrome@real-time.com on Mon, May 14, 2001 at 03:07:50PM -0500 References: <20010514124944.E4412@real-time.com> <20010514150750.E31122@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010514154039.G15040@sherohman.org> On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 03:07:50PM -0500, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > someone postulated that all good programmers eventually write a mail > client of their own. (or more commonly; try to and give up). this sort of > goes along with the theory that all programs, given sufficient time, will > expand to encompass the ability to read e-mail... "Every program evolves to the point where it can send mail", but google wasn't able to find me an attribution. Did find a reference, though, to an alternate version which appends "except for Outlook" to the statement... -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.1: GCS d? s+: a- C++ UL++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w---$ O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv b+ DI++++ D G e* h+ r y+ From dd-b at dd-b.net Mon May 14 15:44:10 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache on Debian and virtual hosts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" writes: > Well, here's what Scott had: > > NameVirtualHost 209.134.132.36 > > > ServerName www.fireopal.org > ServerAlias fireopal.org > ServerAlias *fireopal.org > ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org > DocumentRoot /var/www/ > ServerName www.fireopal.org > ErrorLog /var/log/apache/error.log > > > > ServerName www.ytilaer.com > ServerAlias ytilaer.com > ServerAlias *.ytilaer.com > ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org > DocumentRoot /var/www/host.ytilaer.com > ServerName www.ytilaer.com > ErrorLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-error.log > TransferLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-access.log > > > Here is what I think should work: > > NameVirtualHost 209.134.132.36 > > > ServerName fireopal.org > ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org > DocumentRoot /var/www/ > ErrorLog /var/log/apache/error.log > > > > ServerName ytilaer.com > ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org > DocumentRoot /var/www/host.ytilaer.com > ErrorLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-error.log > TransferLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-access.log > > > Corrections: > 1> Specify port Not necessary if it's the default port (80), which it is. > 2> ServerAliais and duplicate ServerName removed. ServerName is crucial for a by-name virtual host; that's how Apache tells them apart. > 3> Shortened ServerName to just the domain so that anything.fireopal.org > or anything.ytilaer.com pointed to his IP will pull up the correct page. I've never tried wildcards there, don't know if it works. This fragment does work: NameVirtualHost 63.224.10.74 # Default host root ServerName www.dd-b.net ServerAdmin webmaster@dd-b.net DocumentRoot /usr/users/httpd/html/ ScriptAlias /cgi-bin /usr/users/httpd/cgi-bin Alias /sharedicons /usr/users/httpd/html/icons Alias /shared /usr/users/httpd/shared ReWriteEngine on ReWriteLog /var/log/httpd/rewrite ReWriteLogLevel 0 ReWriteRule ^/RKBA http://www.a-human-right.com/ ReWriteRule ^/RKBA/(.*) http://www.a-human-right.com/$1 ReWriteRule ^/olegv/(.*) http://www.olegvolk.net/$1 ReWriteRule ^/olegv http://www.olegvolk.net/ # Minn-StF web pages can have their own private virtual server ServerName www.mnstf.org ServerAdmin webmaster@mnstf.org DocumentRoot /usr/users/httpd/Minn-StF/html UserDir disabled Alias /mnstf /usr/users/httpd/Minn-StF/html ScriptAlias /cgi-bin /usr/users/httpd/cgi-bin Alias /sharedicons /usr/users/httpd/html/icons Alias /shared /usr/users/httpd/shared Include /www/Minn-StF/twiki/httpd.twiki-conf # Remap an accidentally-released address April 2001 ServerName minicon.mnstf.org ServerAdmin webmaster@mnstf.org UserDir disabled ReWriteEngine on ReWriteLog /var/log/httpd/rewrite ReWriteLogLevel 0 ReWriteRule ^/(.*) http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/$1 ServerName www.demesne.com ServerAdmin webmaster@demesne.com DocumentRoot /usr/users/httpd/html/test UserDir disabled ScriptAlias /cgi-bin /usr/users/httpd/cgi-bin Alias /sharedicons /usr/users/httpd/html/icons Alias /shared /usr/users/httpd/shared *I* think the problem has something to do with one webroot being beneath the other one; because one of Scott's earlier posts quoted an error specifically listing that from the log file. But is that error still happening? Anyway, Scott, my suggestion is to *try* un-nesting the web roots, and see if that does help. > Unresolved Question (not important to get a working apache, might be nice > to have a cleaner config): > > [andyzb@chewie:~]# host 209.134.132.36 > Name: sraun.static.iaxs.net > Address: 209.134.132.36 > > As it stands, 209.134.132.36 or sraun.static.iaxs.net are useable in the > NameVirtualHost and VirtualHost options. I think you can use anything you > want if you add the correct entries in /etc/hosts. Am I wrong? I've always just done it by IP, so I'm not sure what the limits are. I *think* that any name that resolves is usable here, and that "resolves" includes in /etc/hosts if your resolver is configured that way. > He couldn't use host.fireopal.org if reverse-dns isn't setup or it isn't > defined in /etc/hosts. Or does host.fireopal.net just need to be a dns > entry (not reverse dns)? I do not believe that reverse DNS is required for that, just forwards. -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From dd-b at dd-b.net Mon May 14 15:48:37 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] dmoz tclug style In-Reply-To: <20010514202312.27219.qmail@web10206.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010514202312.27219.qmail@web10206.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Mike White writes: > How about a Wiki Wiki Web rather than a DMOZ? How about a references header, so I can go back and find what you're responding to? I've run a bit of Wiki, and never got people into it, but it's an interesting idea. I think I read about another user-editable web option based on an Apache module -- anybody remember what that is, or other Wiki alternatives? I'm moving towards wanting to try setting such a thing up again, and wondering where I should start. (Sorry if this has already been covered, I can't find the rest of the thread). -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon May 14 15:52:34 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apology Message-ID: <3b004592.4ba6.269167349@cloudnet.com> > Definitly no > shortabe of pop3 clients, but the number starts to dwindle > when you look > for pop3 + ssl. Why not just use SSH tunneling? Then you can use any client you want to. From sraun at fireopal.org Mon May 14 16:13:04 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache on Debian and virtual hosts In-Reply-To: ; from dd-b@dd-b.net on Mon, May 14, 2001 at 03:44:10PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010514161304.B18498@iaxs.net> On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 03:44:10PM -0500, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" writes: > > 2> ServerAliais and duplicate ServerName removed. > > ServerName is crucial for a by-name virtual host; that's how Apache > tells them apart. Yeah, but he specified _duplicate_ ServerName removed. > > 3> Shortened ServerName to just the domain so that anything.fireopal.org > > or anything.ytilaer.com pointed to his IP will pull up the correct page. > > I've never tried wildcards there, don't know if it works. > > This fragment does work: > > NameVirtualHost 63.224.10.74 > > # Default host root > > ServerName www.dd-b.net > ServerAdmin webmaster@dd-b.net > DocumentRoot /usr/users/httpd/html/ > ScriptAlias /cgi-bin /usr/users/httpd/cgi-bin > Alias /sharedicons /usr/users/httpd/html/icons > Alias /shared /usr/users/httpd/shared > ReWriteEngine on > ReWriteLog /var/log/httpd/rewrite > ReWriteLogLevel 0 > ReWriteRule ^/RKBA http://www.a-human-right.com/ > ReWriteRule ^/RKBA/(.*) http://www.a-human-right.com/$1 > ReWriteRule ^/olegv/(.*) http://www.olegvolk.net/$1 > ReWriteRule ^/olegv http://www.olegvolk.net/ > > > # Minn-StF web pages can have their own private virtual server > > ServerName www.mnstf.org > ServerAdmin webmaster@mnstf.org > DocumentRoot /usr/users/httpd/Minn-StF/html > UserDir disabled > Alias /mnstf /usr/users/httpd/Minn-StF/html > ScriptAlias /cgi-bin /usr/users/httpd/cgi-bin > Alias /sharedicons /usr/users/httpd/html/icons > Alias /shared /usr/users/httpd/shared > Include /www/Minn-StF/twiki/httpd.twiki-conf > > > # Remap an accidentally-released address April 2001 > > ServerName minicon.mnstf.org > ServerAdmin webmaster@mnstf.org > UserDir disabled > ReWriteEngine on > ReWriteLog /var/log/httpd/rewrite > ReWriteLogLevel 0 > ReWriteRule ^/(.*) http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/$1 > > > > ServerName www.demesne.com > ServerAdmin webmaster@demesne.com > DocumentRoot /usr/users/httpd/html/test > UserDir disabled > ScriptAlias /cgi-bin /usr/users/httpd/cgi-bin > Alias /sharedicons /usr/users/httpd/html/icons > Alias /shared /usr/users/httpd/shared > > > *I* think the problem has something to do with one webroot being > beneath the other one; because one of Scott's earlier posts quoted an > error specifically listing that from the log file. But is that error > still happening? OK, that's not the way _I_ would have interpreted either of the errors I saw. Both errors are gone now - I've tried both the nested and un-nested versions of my httpd.conf (Thanks, Jay & Andy!), and I'm having the same problem both ways. > Anyway, Scott, my suggestion is to *try* un-nesting the web roots, and > see if that does help. It didn't - I'm consistently getting the fireopal.org index.html, regardless of whether or not I ask for fireopal.org or ytilaer.com. DD-B - could I see the rest of your httpd.conf? I'm tending to the opinion that there's something outside of the VirtualHost directives that's screwing me up. -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From zibby at ringworld.org Mon May 14 16:35:01 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache on Debian and virtual hosts In-Reply-To: <20010514161304.B18498@iaxs.net> Message-ID: Try: LoadModule alias_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_alias.so instead of: LoadModule vhost_alias_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_vhost_alias.so Smack me on the server alias thing. I was wrong...but define mutiple aliases on one line like so: ServerAlias fireopal.org *.fireopal.org Restart apache: /etc/init.d/apache restart Cross your fingers and try again. If no workie, squeeze the strees ball then: lynx /var/www/index.html lynx /var/www/host.whatever/index.html Just to make sure you don't need to smack yourself silly. :) Don't nest those sites. Flush your browser cache. | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From sraun at fireopal.org Mon May 14 17:07:40 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache on Debian and virtual hosts In-Reply-To: ; from zibby@ringworld.org on Mon, May 14, 2001 at 04:35:01PM -0500 References: <20010514161304.B18498@iaxs.net> Message-ID: <20010514170740.A18953@iaxs.net> On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 04:35:01PM -0500, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > Try: > LoadModule alias_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_alias.so Line now commented out. > instead of: > LoadModule vhost_alias_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_vhost_alias.so Line never commented out, still not commented out. > Smack me on the server alias thing. I was wrong...but define mutiple > aliases on one line like so: > ServerAlias fireopal.org *.fireopal.org > > Restart apache: > /etc/init.d/apache restart > > Cross your fingers and try again. Did so. > If no workie, squeeze the strees ball then: Don't have one handy to squeeze - but I need it! Still not working. > lynx /var/www/index.html > lynx /var/www/host.whatever/index.html > Just to make sure you don't need to smack yourself silly. :) Also lynx /var/www/host.otherwhatever/index.html /var/www/index.html and /var/www/host.fireopal.org/index.html are files with identical content. /var/www/host.ytilaer.org/index.html has different content. > Don't nest those sites. There's still a little bit of cleanup to be done in the un-nesting - the /var/www/usr directory hasn't been duplicated into the /var/www/host.fireopal.org directory. Other than that, they are un-nested. > Flush your browser cache. No luck. Actually, every time I've checked I've done a Shift-Refresh on the page after it came up, just to make certain it was still broken. Is it safe to assume that, since mail to and from ytilaer.com is working, there's nothing I have to config that I haven't already at the system level? (Does this question make sense?) -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From chrome at real-time.com Mon May 14 18:09:06 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apology In-Reply-To: <3b004592.4ba6.269167349@cloudnet.com>; from lxy@cloudnet.com on Mon, May 14, 2001 at 08:52:34PM +0000 References: <3b004592.4ba6.269167349@cloudnet.com> Message-ID: <20010514180906.I13830@real-time.com> > Why not just use SSH tunneling? Then you can use any client > you want to. do you know how to make it work under Winblows? Carl Soderstrom. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Mon May 14 19:17:02 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apology In-Reply-To: <20010514180906.I13830@real-time.com> References: <3b004592.4ba6.269167349@cloudnet.com> <20010514180906.I13830@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010514191702.577bacbc.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > > > Why not just use SSH tunneling? Then you can use any client > > you want to. > > do you know how to make it work under Winblows? Cygwin has OpenSSH -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Think. -- IBM / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From dd-b at dd-b.net Mon May 14 19:47:08 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache on Debian and virtual hosts In-Reply-To: <20010514161304.B18498@iaxs.net> References: <20010514161304.B18498@iaxs.net> Message-ID: Scott Raun writes: > It didn't - I'm consistently getting the fireopal.org index.html, > regardless of whether or not I ask for fireopal.org or ytilaer.com. Okay, glad it's been tried, I can stop thinking about it anyway. > DD-B - could I see the rest of your httpd.conf? I'm tending to the > opinion that there's something outside of the VirtualHost directives > that's screwing me up. Emailed directly (it's reasonably large for a config file). -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From dd-b at dd-b.net Mon May 14 19:49:38 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache on Debian and virtual hosts In-Reply-To: <20010514170740.A18953@iaxs.net> References: <20010514161304.B18498@iaxs.net> <20010514170740.A18953@iaxs.net> Message-ID: Scott Raun writes: > Is it safe to assume that, since mail to and from ytilaer.com is > working, there's nothing I have to config that I haven't already at > the system level? (Does this question make sense?) For by-name virtual hosts, you need the name used in the URL to DNS-resolve to the IP of the box, and tha apache config file to specify a virtual section with the servername matching the name used in the URL. Nothing that I think of as "system" config needed; doesn't matter whether the IP or name are primary to the system, for example, as long as they're *on* the system. -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From jim at bleedpurple.com Mon May 14 19:29:18 2001 From: jim at bleedpurple.com (Jim Herrick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #980 - 8 msgs In-Reply-To: <200105121701.f4CH1DK26484@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: Mostly a lurker, I thought I'd post this thought. Although the idea has merit, we're ALL newbies at something! The thing I love about Linux is the ability to find a better tool to do something using open source... You might know a 2.2 kernel or a 2.4 kernel, but are you a Perl guru? a PHP guru? etc... Jim > I'll use this as an opportunity to chip in my 1/50 of a dollar on the > list fragmentation issue. I say we keep it as it is; although I consider > myself pretty knowledgeable, there are some things -- see above -- which > I'm still clueless about and need newbie-level help with. > Everybody has widely varying areas of expertise and ignorance, which > complement each other on this single list. > > > Dan From sraun at fireopal.org Mon May 14 21:56:04 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More on my failing Virtual Hosts Message-ID: <20010514215604.A20098@iaxs.net> I just posted the following to debian-users - there's some new data at the end: I'm Apache 1.3 on potato. I can't get name-based virtual hosting to work. I just browsed the archive - I've got the NameVirtualHost IP-address in place. I've had the local Linux User Group mailing list look at my config - they've had a number of thoughts, none of which have panned out. Every time I go to my default domain - fireopal.org - I get the fireopal.org index.html. Every time I go to the other domain - ytilaer.com - I get the fireopal.org index.html. Here's the Virtual Host section of my httpd.conf: :NameVirtualHost 209.134.132.36 : : :ServerName fireopal.org :ServerAlias fireopal.org *.fireopal.org :ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org :UserDir public_html :DocumentRoot /var/www_test/host.fireopal.org :ErrorLog /var/log/apache/error.log : : : :ServerName ytilaer.com :ServerAlias ytilaer.com *.ytilaer.com :ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org :UserDir disabled :DocumentRoot /var/www_test/host.ytilaer.com :ErrorLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-error.log :TransferLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-access.log : I discovered something interesting on my last attempt to get this working - no matter what I do, apache is still serving up /var/www. I discovered this when I moved everything out of /var/www into /var/www/host.fireopal.org - all my pages disappeared. So, I recreated /var/www, and created /var/www_test/host.fireopal.org and /var/www_test/host.ytilaer.com. I then re-wrote the index.html files in www_test, so I could identify which one I'm getting. I'm always getting the one in /var/www. I don't have any "DocumentRoot /var/www" in my httpd.conf at all! Any hints? -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From jack at jacku.com Mon May 14 22:03:06 2001 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] dmoz tclug style In-Reply-To: References: <20010514202312.27219.qmail@web10206.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01051422030700.01255@geezer> FWIW Wiki is way of life in the Zope community. There is a Zope implementation ZWiki that is used for brain storming just about everything on Zope. (Disclaimer: I don't participate in these but there was always mention of them when I followed the zope mailing list.) That said I think there are some PHP wiki or wiki-like programs out there as well. Jack On Monday 14 May 2001 15:48, you wrote: > Mike White writes: > > How about a Wiki Wiki Web rather than a DMOZ? > > How about a references header, so I can go back and find what you're > responding to? > > I've run a bit of Wiki, and never got people into it, but it's an > interesting idea. I think I read about another user-editable web > option based on an Apache module -- anybody remember what that is, or > other Wiki alternatives? I'm moving towards wanting to try setting > such a thing up again, and wondering where I should start. > > (Sorry if this has already been covered, I can't find the rest of the > thread). From andy at theasis.com Mon May 14 22:17:23 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More on my failing Virtual Hosts In-Reply-To: <20010514215604.A20098@iaxs.net> Message-ID: > Every time I go to my default domain - fireopal.org - I get the > fireopal.org index.html. Every time I go to the other domain - > ytilaer.com - I get the fireopal.org index.html. > > Here's the Virtual Host section of my httpd.conf: > > :NameVirtualHost 209.134.132.36 > : > : > :ServerName fireopal.org > :ServerAlias fireopal.org *.fireopal.org > : > : > : > :ServerName ytilaer.com > :ServerAlias ytilaer.com *.ytilaer.com > : Just for troubleshooting purposes, did you try without the * entries? If you can get a single hostname to work, then worry about additional ones. > I don't have any "DocumentRoot /var/www" in my httpd.conf at all! It's gotta be somewhere. Did you try something like $ cd /etc/httpd/conf/ $ grep "var\/www" * The default may be something like /var/www/html. What's in there, and are you sure you're not getting an index.html from that dir? Andy From keyj001 at worldnet.att.net Mon May 14 22:28:25 2001 From: keyj001 at worldnet.att.net (Joseph Key) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apology References: <3b004592.4ba6.269167349@cloudnet.com><20010514180906.I13830@real-time.com> <20010514191702.577bacbc.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <000901c0dcef$7780d440$0139a8c0@tomobiki.dyndns.org> You can also use TeraTERM with the teraterm SSH extension. You can get Tera TERM at http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA002416/teraterm.html and the SSH extension at http://www.zip.com.au/~roca/ttssh.html . I used this combo all the time. Joseph Key ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Hicks" To: Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Apology > Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > > > > > Why not just use SSH tunneling? Then you can use any client > > > you want to. > > > > do you know how to make it work under Winblows? > > Cygwin has OpenSSH > > -- > _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Think. -- IBM > / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ > \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) > [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From zibby at ringworld.org Mon May 14 22:37:42 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More on my failing Virtual Hosts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Did you look at /etc/apache/srm.conf? Woody and Sid don't use it anymore, but now that I think of it, Potato does. I think. | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From esper at sherohman.org Mon May 14 23:06:46 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More on my failing Virtual Hosts In-Reply-To: <20010514215604.A20098@iaxs.net>; from sraun@fireopal.org on Mon, May 14, 2001 at 09:56:04PM -0500 References: <20010514215604.A20098@iaxs.net> Message-ID: <20010514230646.C19597@sherohman.org> On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 09:56:04PM -0500, Scott Raun wrote: > I'm always getting the one in /var/www. > > I don't have any "DocumentRoot /var/www" in my httpd.conf at all! Did you forget to `apachectl graceful` after making your changes? -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.1: GCS d? s+: a- C++ UL++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w---$ O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv b+ DI++++ D G e* h+ r y+ From chrome at real-time.com Mon May 14 23:10:40 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apology In-Reply-To: <000901c0dcef$7780d440$0139a8c0@tomobiki.dyndns.org>; from keyj001@worldnet.att.net on Mon, May 14, 2001 at 10:28:25PM -0500 References: <3b004592.4ba6.269167349@cloudnet.com><20010514180906.I13830@real-time.com> <20010514191702.577bacbc.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <000901c0dcef$7780d440$0139a8c0@tomobiki.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20010514231040.B12480@real-time.com> > You can also use TeraTERM with the teraterm SSH extension. You can get Tera > TERM at http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA002416/teraterm.html and the SSH > extension at http://www.zip.com.au/~roca/ttssh.html . I used this combo all > the time. if teraterm supports SSH tunneling, how hard would it be to make puTTY support it? for general use, puTTY beats the crap out of every other Windows SSH client I've seen; free or commercial. Carl Soderstrom. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From mccloud at wiredhot.net Tue May 15 02:04:32 2001 From: mccloud at wiredhot.net (Bob McCloud) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More on my failing Virtual Hosts In-Reply-To: <20010514215604.A20098@iaxs.net> Message-ID: <3B008EB0.3018.287685F@localhost> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 3684 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010515/61a91722/attachment.bin From sraun at fireopal.org Tue May 15 06:52:49 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More on my failing Virtual Hosts In-Reply-To: ; from andy@theasis.com on Mon, May 14, 2001 at 10:17:23PM -0500 References: <20010514215604.A20098@iaxs.net> Message-ID: <20010515065249.A21515@iaxs.net> On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 10:17:23PM -0500, andy@theasis.com wrote: > > Every time I go to my default domain - fireopal.org - I get the > > fireopal.org index.html. Every time I go to the other domain - > > ytilaer.com - I get the fireopal.org index.html. > > > > Here's the Virtual Host section of my httpd.conf: > > > > :NameVirtualHost 209.134.132.36 > > : > > : > > :ServerName fireopal.org > > :ServerAlias fireopal.org *.fireopal.org > > : > > : > > : > > :ServerName ytilaer.com > > :ServerAlias ytilaer.com *.ytilaer.com > > : > > > Just for troubleshooting purposes, did you try without the * entries? > If you can get a single hostname to work, then worry about additional > ones. I just tried with all the ServerAlias lines commented out - still doesn't work. > > I don't have any "DocumentRoot /var/www" in my httpd.conf at all! > > It's gotta be somewhere. Did you try something like > $ cd /etc/httpd/conf/ > $ grep "var\/www" * It _isn't_! I admit, I used the emacs incremental search - but the first /var/www that finds is in the first section. > The default may be something like /var/www/html. What's in there, and are > you sure you're not getting an index.html from that dir? The Debian default is supposed to be /var/www. I _am_ getting the index.html from /var/www - I made the three of them distinct so that I could tell. I believe that was in part of the message you snipped. This is driving me not-so-slowly NUTS! -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From sraun at fireopal.org Tue May 15 06:57:21 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More on my failing Virtual Hosts In-Reply-To: ; from zibby@ringworld.org on Mon, May 14, 2001 at 10:37:42PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010515065721.B21515@iaxs.net> On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 10:37:42PM -0500, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > Did you look at /etc/apache/srm.conf? Woody and Sid don't use it anymore, > but now that I think of it, Potato does. I think. OK, yes, srm.conf exists and has: DocumentRoot /var/www in it. Now what? How do srm.conf and httpd.conf interact? -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From sraun at fireopal.org Tue May 15 06:59:49 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More on my failing Virtual Hosts In-Reply-To: <20010514230646.C19597@sherohman.org>; from esper@sherohman.org on Mon, May 14, 2001 at 11:06:46PM -0500 References: <20010514215604.A20098@iaxs.net> <20010514230646.C19597@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20010515065949.C21515@iaxs.net> On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 11:06:46PM -0500, Dave Sherohman wrote: > On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 09:56:04PM -0500, Scott Raun wrote: > > I'm always getting the one in /var/www. > > > > I don't have any "DocumentRoot /var/www" in my httpd.conf at all! > > Did you forget to `apachectl graceful` after making your changes? After every edit of httpd.conf, I'm issuing '/etc/init.d/apache restart'. I'm seeing an 'httpd stopped' and an 'httpd started' each time. -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From sraun at fireopal.org Tue May 15 07:05:48 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More on my failing Virtual Hosts In-Reply-To: <3B008EB0.3018.287685F@localhost>; from mccloud@wiredhot.net on Tue, May 15, 2001 at 02:04:32AM -0500 References: <20010514215604.A20098@iaxs.net> <3B008EB0.3018.287685F@localhost> Message-ID: <20010515070548.D21515@iaxs.net> On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 02:04:32AM -0500, Bob McCloud wrote: > On 14 May 2001, at 21:56, Scott Raun wrote: > > Here's the Virtual Host section of my httpd.conf: > > > > :NameVirtualHost 209.134.132.36 > > : > > : > > :ServerName fireopal.org > > :ServerAlias fireopal.org *.fireopal.org > > :ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org > > :UserDir public_html > > :DocumentRoot /var/www_test/host.fireopal.org > > :ErrorLog /var/log/apache/error.log > > : > > : > > : > > :ServerName ytilaer.com > > :ServerAlias ytilaer.com *.ytilaer.com > > :ServerAdmin webmaster@fireopal.org > > :UserDir disabled > > :DocumentRoot /var/www_test/host.ytilaer.com > > :ErrorLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-error.log > > :TransferLog /var/log/apache/host.ytilaer.com-access.log > > : > > > I've been watching with a great deal of interest how this problem is > going to be solved, I'm going to need it myself. After several posts > with no success, I spent a great deal of time on deja and at > apache.org. > > I dont have two domains to test my theory, but here is what I found at > apache.org: > > > ServerName www.domain.tld > ServerPath /domain > DocumentRoot /web/domain > > Both the examples at apache.org and deja say the samething, > ServerName should start with www. In Scotts that is omitted. > > In one post there was an explination that if Apache cant find > www.ytilaer.com it will serve up the first host name in the VirtualHost > list, hence www.fireopal.org is sent in responce to both requests. Im > just guessing here, but I really dont think Apache is finding > www.fireopal.org either, I think it is just looking at the path in the > first VirtualHost listing and serving up that page. > > Like I said, I would test this myself, but I dont have two domains to > work with. But I think its worth a shot. Well, I tried changing the ServerName directives to www.fireopal.org and www.ytilaer.com - still no go. -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From andy at theasis.com Tue May 15 07:52:25 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More on my failing Virtual Hosts In-Reply-To: <20010515065721.B21515@iaxs.net> Message-ID: > OK, yes, srm.conf exists and has: > > DocumentRoot /var/www > > in it. Now what? How do srm.conf and httpd.conf interact? They're both read & used. One may override the other if they have duplicate entries; I'm not sure in what order they're read. IIRC, apache folks are deprecating multiple configuration files and recommending everything go in httpd.conf. Andy From duncan at sodatrain.com Tue May 15 07:37:05 2001 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (duncan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] dmoz tclug style In-Reply-To: <01051422030700.01255@geezer> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 May 2001, Jack Ungerleider wrote: > FWIW Wiki is way of life in the Zope community. There is a Zope > implementation ZWiki that is used for brain storming just about everything on > Zope. (Disclaimer: I don't participate in these but there was always mention > of them when I followed the zope mailing list.) > > That said I think there are some PHP wiki or wiki-like programs out there as > well. > ive put up a phpWiki if anyone would like to check it out.... www.sodatrain.com/phpwiki clever, eh? feel free to play around, that is why it is there. duncan -- || || || || || || duncan shannon duncan@sodatrain.com From simeonuj at eetc.com Tue May 15 08:38:19 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hercules video cards? Message-ID: <3B013148.86393D60@eetc.com> Anyone have any experience with Hercules brand video cards? I am looking at the Hercules 3D Prophet 4000XT from www.newegg.com. Looking for a PCI version ( maybe it is already - doesn't say ). Any suggestions on the best PCI card for the price? Looking for the 32MB at least but will take 64 if the prices are pretty close. Not looking for Voodoo cards. They rock but are now out of buisness. Wouldn't mind a GeForce though. sim From duncan at sodatrain.com Tue May 15 07:59:10 2001 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (duncan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] dmoz tclug style In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > ive put up a phpWiki if anyone would like to check it out.... > > www.sodatrain.com/phpwiki > > > feel free to play around, that is why it is there. really... i see folks looking at it, feel free to change pages, add pages, whatever. its just there to mess around with. dont feel bad about changing it. > -- || || || || || || duncan shannon duncan@sodatrain.com From brian at ghostreactor.com Tue May 15 09:05:19 2001 From: brian at ghostreactor.com (Brian Riesgraf) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hercules video cards? References: <3B013148.86393D60@eetc.com> Message-ID: <000701c0dd48$13cc16e0$b9015a0a@bloomington.k12.mn.us> Lots of people would like a PCI geforce card, but unfortuntly they dont exist. The Kyro II chipset is compairable to the geforce MX chipset, but im not familiar with the 4000TX. To be honest the only Kyro video cards ive seen reviewed is the Kyro II at http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/previews/hercules_3dprophet_4500_kyro2 / The 4000TX that your looking at is AGP. If your looking for decent PCI 3d cards and 'dont' want a voodoo... good luck. Hercules cards are world renounded for there overclocking ability and solid support. My friends and I have been buying cards from hercules for a while (they went out of business for a while until guillemot bought them) because they tailor to gamers who want nothing but the top of the line preformance. There phone support is wonderfull. I have toasted a few fans in the past and I didnt know which connector I needed, so they sent me both. From administrator at ltiflex.com Tue May 15 09:07:31 2001 From: administrator at ltiflex.com (Andy Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More on my failing Virtual Hosts References: Message-ID: <3B013823.4CA632DA@ltiflex.com> > They're both read & used. One may override the other if they have > duplicate entries; I'm not sure in what order they're read. IIRC, apache > folks are deprecating multiple configuration files and recommending > everything go in httpd.conf. I think http.conf is first, and srm.conf second. I think the best thing to do at this point is put everything you need in srm.conf into httpd.conf, then comment srm.conf. Do the same for access.conf. Restart apache, and maybe you'll get what you want this time around. :) -- Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH) 763-428-9119 (EX) 132 21801 Industrial Blvd | (FX) 763-428-9126 Rogers, MN 55374 | (PCS) 612-306-6055 From simeonuj at eetc.com Tue May 15 09:23:59 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] dmoz tclug style References: Message-ID: <3B013BF7.9E276B8F@eetc.com> duncan wrote: > > > > ive put up a phpWiki if anyone would like to check it out.... > > > > www.sodatrain.com/phpwiki > > > > > > feel free to play around, that is why it is there. > > really... i see folks looking at it, feel free to change pages, add > pages, whatever. its just there to mess around with. dont feel bad > about changing it. It's very interesting. Could be cool. sim From lxy at cloudnet.com Tue May 15 09:49:49 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apology Message-ID: <3b01420d.5253.269167349@cloudnet.com> > > do you know how to make it work under Winblows? In the ideal environment, your Win boxen are not directly connected to the internet. You have a firewall/router made of linux or *BSD. On the firewall, connect some obscure port over ssh to your POP server, then connect to the firewall's obscure port and there you have it, encrypted POP under Doze. Once I get my cable modem working, I'm setting up this sort of thing for all my off-site administered boxen so nothing goes unencrypted. Responding to your other e-mail, yes, PuTTY rocks. I don't think there's anything beyond the SSH/telnet client though. TeraTERM was a package of encryption tools, PuTTY is a single excutable. Maybe we need to "encourage" those fine folks who made PuTTY... -Brian From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 15 10:16:30 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hercules video cards? In-Reply-To: <3B013148.86393D60@eetc.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 May 2001, Simeon Johnston wrote: > Anyone have any experience with Hercules brand video cards? Yes, but not since they were known for killer monochrome cards. :) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From sraun at fireopal.org Tue May 15 10:35:43 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apology In-Reply-To: <3b01420d.5253.269167349@cloudnet.com>; from lxy@cloudnet.com on Tue, May 15, 2001 at 02:49:49PM +0000 References: <3b01420d.5253.269167349@cloudnet.com> Message-ID: <20010515103543.A22193@iaxs.net> On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 02:49:49PM +0000, Brian wrote: > Responding to your other e-mail, yes, PuTTY rocks. I don't think > there's anything beyond the SSH/telnet client though. TeraTERM was > a package of encryption tools, PuTTY is a single excutable. Maybe > we need to "encourage" those fine folks who made PuTTY... Not quite. According to http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/download.html * PuTTY (the Telnet and SSH client itself) * PSCP (an SCP client) * Currently in the development snapshots only: PSFTP (an SFTP client) * PuTTYtel (a Telnet-only client) * Plink (a command-line interface to the PuTTY back ends) * Pageant (an SSH authentication agent for PuTTY, PSCP and Plink) * PuTTYgen (an RSA key generation utility). Now, I haven't done anything with any of the rest of these - I finally found a font / window pair that I was happy with, so I've just been using the base executable. There is a temptation to get the RSA stuff working, just to see exactly what it is. -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 15 10:51:06 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wiki Q Message-ID: So did you roll your own scripts for the phpWiki thing, or where'd you get 'em. (sorry if I missed it already.) Is there such a thing as an authenticated wiki web site, i.e., only authorized users can do it in those scripts, or is that a roll your own thing. (not too tought, but why rewrite?) Thanx, Phil M -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From duncan at sodatrain.com Tue May 15 10:08:26 2001 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (duncan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wiki Q In-Reply-To: Message-ID: the wiki here is pure phpwiki [ http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/ ], and just an out of the box install/ would apache's auth stuff be enough for what you are asking about here? > So did you roll your own scripts for the phpWiki thing, or where'd you get > 'em. (sorry if I missed it already.) > > Is there such a thing as an authenticated wiki web site, i.e., only > authorized users can do it in those scripts, or is that a roll your own > thing. (not too tought, but why rewrite?) -- || || || || || || duncan shannon duncan@sodatrain.com From dd-b at dd-b.net Tue May 15 11:38:33 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More on my failing Virtual Hosts In-Reply-To: <20010515065249.A21515@iaxs.net> References: <20010514215604.A20098@iaxs.net> <20010515065249.A21515@iaxs.net> Message-ID: Scott Raun writes: > The Debian default is supposed to be /var/www. I _am_ getting the > index.html from /var/www - I made the three of them distinct so that I > could tell. I believe that was in part of the message you snipped. Starts to sound like you're not talking to the Apache you think you're talking to, or the Apache isn't reading the configuration files you think it's reading. The first seems not so likely. The second, especially with the srm.conf issue just mentioned, maybe more likely. And are you sure your procedure for telling Apache to reread the changed configuration files is valid? Try something like putting a deliberate syntax error in and make sure you get an error for it. (Or have you accidentally tested this often enough to be sure already? :-) ) > This is driving me not-so-slowly NUTS! I believe it! -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From dd-b at dd-b.net Tue May 15 11:41:41 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More on my failing Virtual Hosts In-Reply-To: <3B008EB0.3018.287685F@localhost> References: <3B008EB0.3018.287685F@localhost> Message-ID: "Bob McCloud" writes: > Both the examples at apache.org and deja say the samething, > ServerName should start with www. In Scotts that is omitted. ServerName should specify the exact DNS name that requests are going to be made to; the leading "www" is just a reasonably common convention for naming your web servers. (Notice it's not always present in the bits of my configuration file posted a bit upthread from here; those sites work fine). > In one post there was an explination that if Apache cant find > www.ytilaer.com it will serve up the first host name in the > VirtualHost list, hence www.fireopal.org is sent in responce to both > requests. Im just guessing here, but I really dont think Apache is > finding www.fireopal.org either, I think it is just looking at the > path in the first VirtualHost listing and serving up that page. > > Like I said, I would test this myself, but I dont have two domains to > work with. But I think its worth a shot. If ServerName is ytilaer.org, and you request http://ytilaer.org/, you should get index.html from the directory in the corresponding VirtualHost section. There is nothing magical about "www"; it's simply a component of the name. -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 15 11:46:07 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wiki Q In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 15 May 2001, duncan wrote: > the wiki here is pure phpwiki [ http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/ ], and > just an out of the box install/ > > would apache's auth stuff be enough for what you are asking about here? Heck, plain text pass and a cgi script would be enough. I just ask because this is just what I want for a group project (Latin compiler). I'd like project members to quickly and easily be able to put stuff up, but don't want it to be just wide open. Sort of a guideline for topics and graffiti filter. Thanks for the link. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From dd-b at dd-b.net Tue May 15 11:50:04 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apology In-Reply-To: <20010514231040.B12480@real-time.com> References: <3b004592.4ba6.269167349@cloudnet.com> <20010514180906.I13830@real-time.com> <20010514191702.577bacbc.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <000901c0dcef$7780d440$0139a8c0@tomobiki.dyndns.org> <20010514231040.B12480@real-time.com> Message-ID: Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom writes: > > You can also use TeraTERM with the teraterm SSH extension. You can get Tera > > TERM at http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA002416/teraterm.html and the SSH > > extension at http://www.zip.com.au/~roca/ttssh.html . I used this combo all > > the time. > > if teraterm supports SSH tunneling, how hard would it be to make puTTY > support it? for general use, puTTY beats the crap out of every other Windows > SSH client I've seen; free or commercial. Huh; I find it considerably inferior to FreeCRT, myself. (Putty, that is). Putty is still darned useful, especially the fact that it's a single .exe that takes no installation. Many sysadmins don't lock down the system so carefully that I can't run putty off a floppy or CD :-). -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From dd-b at dd-b.net Tue May 15 11:51:15 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hercules video cards? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Phil Mendelsohn writes: > On Tue, 15 May 2001, Simeon Johnston wrote: > > > Anyone have any experience with Hercules brand video cards? > > Yes, but not since they were known for killer monochrome cards. :) > I was thinking about that; I still have my original Hercules monochrom graphics card, from 1985, I think. If I'm right, it's in a chassis sitting outside the door of this room right now. -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From homebrewmike at yahoo.com Tue May 15 11:57:27 2001 From: homebrewmike at yahoo.com (Mike White) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wiki Q Message-ID: <20010515165727.88651.qmail@web10206.mail.yahoo.com> >Is there such a thing as an authenticated wiki web >site, i.e., only >authorized users can do it in those scripts, or is that a roll your own >thing. (not too tought, but why rewrite?) For a start of all things Wiki, take a look at: http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiWikiClones - I believe Twiki has some authentication built in (http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?TwikiClone and http://TWiki.SourceForge.net/) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From jeffr at odeon.net Tue May 15 12:14:37 2001 From: jeffr at odeon.net (jeffr@odeon.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wiki Q In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If not, the Zope wiki stuff will let you set up user based controls like that. Jeff On Tue, 15 May 2001, duncan wrote: > the wiki here is pure phpwiki [ http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/ ], and > just an out of the box install/ > > would apache's auth stuff be enough for what you are asking about here? > > > So did you roll your own scripts for the phpWiki thing, or where'd you get > > 'em. (sorry if I missed it already.) > > > > Is there such a thing as an authenticated wiki web site, i.e., only > > authorized users can do it in those scripts, or is that a roll your own > > thing. (not too tought, but why rewrite?) > > From mccloud at wiredhot.net Tue May 15 12:20:16 2001 From: mccloud at wiredhot.net (Bob McCloud) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More on my failing Virtual Hosts In-Reply-To: <20010515070548.D21515@iaxs.net> References: <3B008EB0.3018.287685F@localhost>; from mccloud@wiredhot.net on Tue, May 15, 2001 at 02:04:32AM -0500 Message-ID: <3B011F00.26943.4BB3917@localhost> On 15 May 2001, at 7:05, Scott Raun wrote: > > Like I said, I would test this myself, but I dont have two domains > > to work with. But I think its worth a shot. > > Well, I tried changing the ServerName directives to www.fireopal.org > and www.ytilaer.com - still no go. That was my best shot at helping. According to everything I read, your doing it correctly. Bob From mccloud at wiredhot.net Tue May 15 12:41:45 2001 From: mccloud at wiredhot.net (Bob McCloud) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More on my failing Virtual Hosts In-Reply-To: References: <3B008EB0.3018.287685F@localhost> Message-ID: <3B012409.29319.4CEE4B7@localhost> On 15 May 2001, at 11:41, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > If ServerName is ytilaer.org, and you request http://ytilaer.org/, you > should get index.html from the directory in the corresponding > VirtualHost section. There is nothing magical about "www"; it's > simply a component of the name. I agree totally, its just when ya see so many examples written the same way.... Besides, if I read the instructions right about ServerAlias, it shouldnt matter what you put in front, or omit in this case, it should serve up the right page anyway. Sadly for me, I'm beginning to think that my first success at getting Apache to work was pure luck. If I was in Scotts shoes, it wouldnt be working for me either. Bob From andy at theasis.com Tue May 15 12:46:49 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More on my failing Virtual Hosts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > If ServerName is ytilaer.org, and you request http://ytilaer.org/, you > should get index.html from the directory in the corresponding > VirtualHost section. There is nothing magical about "www"; it's > simply a component of the name. so the question is, does the computer on which you're testing all these changes actually know what _host_ ytilaer.org is? It would either be through DNS or /etc/hosts/. Andy From sraun at fireopal.org Tue May 15 13:01:51 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apology In-Reply-To: ; from dd-b@dd-b.net on Tue, May 15, 2001 at 11:50:04AM -0500 References: <3b004592.4ba6.269167349@cloudnet.com> <20010514180906.I13830@real-time.com> <20010514191702.577bacbc.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <000901c0dcef$7780d440$0139a8c0@tomobiki.dyndns.org> <20010514231040.B12480@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010515130150.A22752@iaxs.net> On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 11:50:04AM -0500, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Huh; I find it considerably inferior to FreeCRT, myself. (Putty, that > is). So, do you have pointer to FreeCRT? My two favorite sources came up blank. -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From florin at iucha.net Tue May 15 12:58:08 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] external scsi enclosure Message-ID: <20010515125808.A12929@beaver.iucha.org> Hello! I am looking for a 3-4 bay external SCSI enclosure. If anybody has one that is willing to sell for a moderate amount :) or exchange for some other hardware, please let me know. florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From sraun at fireopal.org Tue May 15 13:05:12 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More on my failing Virtual Hosts In-Reply-To: ; from dd-b@dd-b.net on Tue, May 15, 2001 at 11:38:33AM -0500 References: <20010514215604.A20098@iaxs.net> <20010515065249.A21515@iaxs.net> Message-ID: <20010515130512.B22752@iaxs.net> On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 11:38:33AM -0500, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Scott Raun writes: > > > The Debian default is supposed to be /var/www. I _am_ getting the > > index.html from /var/www - I made the three of them distinct so that I > > could tell. I believe that was in part of the message you snipped. > > Starts to sound like you're not talking to the Apache you think you're > talking to, or the Apache isn't reading the configuration files you > think it's reading. The first seems not so likely. The second, > especially with the srm.conf issue just mentioned, maybe more likely. > And are you sure your procedure for telling Apache to reread the > changed configuration files is valid? Try something like putting a > deliberate syntax error in and make sure you get an error for it. (Or > have you accidentally tested this often enough to be sure already? :-) > ) I found my Apache by poking around in my /etc/init.d directory. I'm reasonably certain I'm getting the right one. I am convinced that it is reading httpd.conf - there have been enough error messages that have come and gone as I made changes that it _has_ to be reading that file. I'm going to try combining httpd.conf, srm.conf, and access.conf, and see what happens. -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From zibby at ringworld.org Tue May 15 13:46:03 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More on my failing Virtual Hosts In-Reply-To: <20010515130512.B22752@iaxs.net> Message-ID: Using debian's init.d script to start/stop/restart apache is just fine. If you look at it (or look at the same script in /etc/rc.d/init.d on a Red Hat box), calling `/etc/init.d/apache reload` does: reload) echo -ne "Reloading $NAME configuration.\n" $APACHECTL graceful ;; So unless he's running apache from inetd or starting it manually, the script should work fine. I think we've eliminated everything but srm.conf and access.conf. :) | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From simeonuj at eetc.com Tue May 15 16:09:08 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apology References: <3b01420d.5253.269167349@cloudnet.com> Message-ID: <3B019AE3.DD4326B@eetc.com> As long as your going that far... Why not just set up a VPN? FreeSWAN/PoPToP would be really cool. Windoze --> Firewall w/ FreeSWAN --> Mail Server ( linux of course w/ FreeSWAN ) Should be incredibly secure. : ) Or.... Windoze w/ Free PPTP client --> Mail server w/ PoPToP ( also linux ) All this of course depends on wether you control your own mail server. :-) sim Brian wrote: > > > > do you know how to make it work under Winblows? > > In the ideal environment, your Win boxen are not directly > connected to the internet. You have a firewall/router made > of linux or *BSD. On the firewall, connect some obscure > port > over ssh to your POP server, then connect to the firewall's > obscure port and there you have it, encrypted POP under > Doze. > Once I get my cable modem working, I'm setting up this sort > of thing for all my off-site administered boxen so nothing > goes unencrypted. > > Responding to your other e-mail, yes, PuTTY rocks. I don't > think there's anything beyond the SSH/telnet client though. > TeraTERM was a package of encryption tools, PuTTY is a > single > excutable. Maybe we need to "encourage" those fine folks > who > made PuTTY... From simeonuj at eetc.com Tue May 15 16:26:53 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Key combo's and Linux References: <3AF84DE6.6B68ECBA@eetc.com> <20010511155546.A17609@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B019F0A.38E8B5DE@eetc.com> Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > > Or could be set to log out ( a little more difficult since it would have > > to tell the shell to log out and couldn't be a program ) or to change > > the keyboard config ( I'm still trying to automate this in the command > > line ). > > control-d is logout, in xterms and pc consoles (under bash, and many other > line-reading environments). > it sends an EOF character. > > Carl Soderstrom I'm talking about user defined key commands. Any way to do this? sim From simeonuj at eetc.com Tue May 15 16:32:58 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] external scsi enclosure References: <20010515125808.A12929@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <3B01A077.A7701893@eetc.com> I could rig up an old case for ya. Don't know if you would want this thing though. It's * FULL HEIGHT * i.e. about 3 feet tall. Probably not what you are looking for. :-P sim Florin Iucha wrote: > Hello! > > I am looking for a 3-4 bay external SCSI enclosure. If anybody has one that is > willing to sell for a moderate amount :) or exchange for some other hardware, > please let me know. > > florin > > -- > > "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Tue May 15 17:56:20 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux rocks! (IRDA Modem with a Nokia 8290) Message-ID: Just wanted to say Linux rocks. :) Using kernel 2.4.5pre2, I got my Nokia 8290 working as a modem on my laptop. Only get 9600kbps connections, but hey, that's OK. No support for this (with this modem) under Win 2000 yet. LINUX RULES! (Oh, I can also send SMS messages and modify my phone book. sweeeeet..) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 15 19:09:59 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ambient temperature probes Message-ID: <20010515190959.7e4590d6.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> I'm looking for a good way to keep watch over the temperature in the server room at work.. I know that there are a number of temperature probes and stuff out there, but I haven't ever seen any of them in operation. Preferably, I'd just like something that I can plug into a parallel port or something, and that doesn't require me soldering parts together (my soldering skillz aren't that great ;-) Keep in mind that I may have to plug this into a laptop, so nothing that requires some sort of a host adapter inside a PC.. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ A seminar on Time Travel / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ will be held two weeks \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) ago. [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From ben at nerp.net Tue May 15 19:34:10 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ambient temperature probes In-Reply-To: <20010515190959.7e4590d6.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- at the IMA, we have a device called a "hot little therm" I gota lookup URL's for them.. Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Tue, 15 May 2001, Mike Hicks wrote: > I'm looking for a good way to keep watch over the temperature in the > server room at work.. I know that there are a number of temperature > probes and stuff out there, but I haven't ever seen any of them in > operation. Preferably, I'd just like something that I can plug into a > parallel port or something, and that doesn't require me soldering parts > together (my soldering skillz aren't that great ;-) > > Keep in mind that I may have to plug this into a laptop, so nothing that > requires some sort of a host adapter inside a PC.. > > -- > _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ A seminar on Time Travel > / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ will be held two weeks > \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) ago. > [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOwHLA8tpDhsSpvgtAQFsgQP/UlYq129qXkqfUIbAm8foMZyPnOd6jJZL aJnT947tejTYBiyAUt4Iz+X30fNnJL049zxccbNtaXmTxjmlhdNuLLShFqgqEE18 BEbwSNO+kGw8HCaQcmCIlFDWez3AZiEvydezgmUv8XWWBs3LrGeyRtYGhUQvR0Ia sgWCBixjgGI= =bJQ4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 15 19:50:13 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Alpha hardware, not systems Message-ID: <20010515195013.6074504d.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> I've been looking to dump the Intel architecture for a while.. As anyone who has looked at it will tell you, it's gotten pretty crufty. Since I run Linux and only Linux, this isn't terribly hard to do, either. Anyway, I'm just curious if there are places where you can actually buy parts for Alpha systems. I realize this stuff's probably out of my price range (though there is apparently a guy selling a whole pile of 600MHz Alpha processors on Ebay for $300 each). I almost bid on that plus an Alpha motherboard, but the only mobo I could find only had 4 PCI slots, and no AGP. If I could get that (or a better) processor and a motherboard with AGP for a reasonable prosumer price, I might go for it (and then kick myself for not saving my money ;-) -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Manager: One who knows / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ more buzzwords than you. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From ben at nerp.net Tue May 15 19:52:40 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Alpha hardware, not systems In-Reply-To: <20010515195013.6074504d.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- most of the alpha hardware is server stuff.. I don't know of any that have AGP. what you should do first is familiarize yourself with alpha's CPU history. and the preformance pros and cons of the system.. if you're worried about AGP graphics, you shouldn't even bother with alpha stuff. just stick with intel for what you're doing. Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Tue, 15 May 2001, Mike Hicks wrote: > I've been looking to dump the Intel architecture for a while.. As anyone > who has looked at it will tell you, it's gotten pretty crufty. Since I > run Linux and only Linux, this isn't terribly hard to do, either. > > Anyway, I'm just curious if there are places where you can actually buy > parts for Alpha systems. I realize this stuff's probably out of my price > range (though there is apparently a guy selling a whole pile of 600MHz > Alpha processors on Ebay for $300 each). > > I almost bid on that plus an Alpha motherboard, but the only mobo I could > find only had 4 PCI slots, and no AGP. If I could get that (or a better) > processor and a motherboard with AGP for a reasonable prosumer price, I > might go for it (and then kick myself for not saving my money ;-) > > -- > _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Manager: One who knows > / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ more buzzwords than you. > \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) > [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOwHPWctpDhsSpvgtAQGyTQP8DWrWuetwfu3kVJddkg6XGrjhio4ySZVi POZ568vdUhRBZFZHQMz8PEZuAZNz/mTPz9UCPsBKcwGVTSi/grA1UwoPgQapxe02 epXqTjRuThBgL6q87mzjCZm8AdFNBDzOa9nDmTJQ5psSuSyvATvGhiusax0LtKFm IYC21IPB3gg= =FNGW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 15 20:16:35 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Alpha hardware, not systems In-Reply-To: <20010515195013.6074504d.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 May 2001, Mike Hicks wrote: > I've been looking to dump the Intel architecture for a while.. As anyone > who has looked at it will tell you, it's gotten pretty crufty. Since I > run Linux and only Linux, this isn't terribly hard to do, either. The way I hear it, from those who know better than I, the Alpha *is* a real architecture, the x86 family isn't; it's a kludge to keep backward compatibility with the 8086. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 15 20:18:54 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ambient temperature probes In-Reply-To: <20010515190959.7e4590d6.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 May 2001, Mike Hicks wrote: > I'm looking for a good way to keep watch over the temperature in the > server room at work.. I know that there are a number of temperature > probes and stuff out there, but I haven't ever seen any of them in > operation. Preferably, I'd just like something that I can plug into a > parallel port or something, and that doesn't require me soldering parts > together (my soldering skillz aren't that great ;-) You should talk to Carl. He found a little thing to build, but it turns out they have demo boards available prefab. Don't know what they cost, prolly win drivers, but it would be worthwhile to ask if they have Unix, or if they'd give you the source (maybe in return to porting to Unix for them...) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From ben at nerp.net Tue May 15 20:23:11 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Alpha hardware, not systems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- well.. i'd agree with you, but that's like saying that *BSD and Linux arn't unix. x86 is a platform, the original IBM PC was a platform, it's just really old.. and for PC's to keep that kind of backwards compatability is kinda silly, but we're stuck with it Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Tue, 15 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On Tue, 15 May 2001, Mike Hicks wrote: > > > I've been looking to dump the Intel architecture for a while.. As anyone > > who has looked at it will tell you, it's gotten pretty crufty. Since I > > run Linux and only Linux, this isn't terribly hard to do, either. > > The way I hear it, from those who know better than I, the Alpha *is* a > real architecture, the x86 family isn't; it's a kludge to keep backward > compatibility with the 8086. > > -- > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOwHWgctpDhsSpvgtAQEEVAP+O/UZfne/AdLztLzi81QHf6qk6UMNQwgP 15BHwjwqxAHlGUI4MkjvSYS7CH+fv+QSY7xYMa/IfS8ix3ESDe/mqaV9EHpn9TKL zUHae/IKyIc1bmn79ryjvqyMV9MzAFrr7NIl1AbIMidRs5h+EOd7JfN40v5RiMSD scSOsAoOQMw= =aJSH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 15 20:23:14 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Almost last DSL question In-Reply-To: <20010515190959.7e4590d6.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: I've got DSL, finally got the modem to train in, Nate and the Boyz and Grrlz at RTE took care of their end, but I'm not sure I'm getting to the outside world. I can't use ping from the 678 to the world. ----------- cbos>show interface IP Address Mask eth0 65.165.40.38 255.255.255.248 vip0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 vip1 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 vip2 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 wan0 Physical Port: Trained Dest IP Address Mask wan0-0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.255 Static IP Address Mask wan0-0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.255 ------------ Does it bother anyone else that the wan0-0 Static IP is all zeros, or is that right? -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 15 20:30:52 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Alpha hardware, not systems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 15 May 2001, Ben Kochie wrote: > well.. i'd agree with you, but that's like saying that *BSD and Linux > arn't unix. x86 is a platform, the original IBM PC was a platform, it's > just really old.. and for PC's to keep that kind of backwards > compatability is kinda silly, but we're stuck with it I see what you're saying, but the point that was being made was that an architecture is a lot more formal (and the implication is that *done correctly*, more thought out) than what Intel sells. Intel is a chip manufacturer; they never have been an "architecture" company. Anyway, ain't my idee-er, it's my old man's. I just liked the sound of it. :) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From ben at nerp.net Tue May 15 20:45:23 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Alpha hardware, not systems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- hehe.. actualy, intel sorta _does_ build the architecture. it's an open architecture, built on standards written by many companies. it's almost like the open source community, but the users don't have direct control over the situation. intel does package a whole version of the architecture, in their branded motherboards/chassis. I agree.. the x86 hardware needs a re-vamp. and hopefully the 64bit platforms will get most of that fixed. I think what your dad is talking about, is the same ideals that MS is pushing. the type of "platforms" are controled by a single company, and have backwards compatability quirks of their own. to use alpha as an example, I will pull my history with alpha out of the closet. the oldest alpha system I've worked on was the Jensen, or DecPC 150. over the years, they have gone through a lot of changes, and each time, they throw in a bunch of architectural changes that have been good, and kludgy. (in my opinion) no single system type is perfect, just like no OS is perfect Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Tue, 15 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On Tue, 15 May 2001, Ben Kochie wrote: > > > well.. i'd agree with you, but that's like saying that *BSD and Linux > > arn't unix. x86 is a platform, the original IBM PC was a platform, it's > > just really old.. and for PC's to keep that kind of backwards > > compatability is kinda silly, but we're stuck with it > > I see what you're saying, but the point that was being made was that an > architecture is a lot more formal (and the implication is that *done > correctly*, more thought out) than what Intel sells. Intel is a chip > manufacturer; they never have been an "architecture" company. > > Anyway, ain't my idee-er, it's my old man's. I just liked the sound of > it. :) > > -- > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOwHbtMtpDhsSpvgtAQG08gP/YPCquCaD3BDRloER2PmxmvxYYxsokoJt 8GimEB7VW5cM1DLnkrSiTGP3xzc84VtWHqg/M9+QwMlIHEYSTBWu9yakG8dHZewt HNfp3t0CbWoS7YEKx3pQongi+F4NHAPGyIgTqSFmmgHyWfWTxyeaGgiJbYaNqzUX sTgCzEo68+s= =mnQv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 15 21:04:27 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Alpha hardware, not systems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I really don't want to start a religious war or anything. It just boils down to semantics. He means something *very* specific when he talks about an architecture, you haven't used it that way yet, and (unfortunately) I understand it but not well enough to explain it while I'm troubleshooting something else right now. On Tue, 15 May 2001, Ben Kochie wrote: > I think what your dad is talking about, is the same ideals that MS is > pushing. You take that back! (It's not true, either, but I don't think either of us care enough about it to waste the keystrokes on it. > the oldest alpha system I've worked on was the Jensen, or DecPC 150. > over the years, they have gone through a lot of changes, and each > time, they throw in a bunch of architectural changes that have been > good, and kludgy. No, the alpha architecture hasn't changed that much, according to what I've seen. You may know better. Features and implementation take place in the *context* of an architecture. It smells like you're talking about the former. > (in my opinion) no single system type is perfect, just like no OS is > perfect True enough. We can discuss the relative merits and pitfalls of them at the next beer thang. :) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From ben at nerp.net Tue May 15 21:25:08 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Alpha hardware, not systems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- no, i'm tired of religious wars. I think my argument still stands. I do understand the specifics of what you are talking about. I just think it's corperate fluff ;) Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Tue, 15 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > I really don't want to start a religious war or anything. It just boils > down to semantics. He means something *very* specific when he talks about > an architecture, you haven't used it that way yet, and (unfortunately) I > understand it but not well enough to explain it while I'm troubleshooting > something else right now. > > On Tue, 15 May 2001, Ben Kochie wrote: > > > I think what your dad is talking about, is the same ideals that MS is > > pushing. > > You take that back! (It's not true, either, but I don't think either > of us care enough about it to waste the keystrokes on it. > > > the oldest alpha system I've worked on was the Jensen, or DecPC 150. > > over the years, they have gone through a lot of changes, and each > > time, they throw in a bunch of architectural changes that have been > > good, and kludgy. > > No, the alpha architecture hasn't changed that much, according to what > I've seen. You may know better. Features and implementation take place > in the *context* of an architecture. It smells like you're talking about > the former. > > > (in my opinion) no single system type is perfect, just like no OS is > > perfect > > True enough. We can discuss the relative merits and pitfalls of them at > the next beer thang. :) > > -- > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOwHlBstpDhsSpvgtAQGxWwP/QNocGMuicb/nHFq1sTeeZLC97Q0wpKiZ Oqr5nVSshabdcArkwubCSOh9TFSUpZrSCBidyX4JLYvSWOdV7S/FEPPDjmcgYZUK gx5A5VM6DDHdCdM8n1N6cbjRmbL+FNRpEMD9glw0qaD9h8y4OM/cSQkFc4OP/oZI LCyBY1Keqe0= =7h7C -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jwanderson at uswest.net Tue May 15 21:38:39 2001 From: jwanderson at uswest.net (Jay W. Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Almost last DSL question In-Reply-To: References: <20010515190959.7e4590d6.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <200105160238.f4G2coK30317@sprite.real-time.com> If I understand the situation correctly, the only time that wan 0-0 should show all 0's is iff you are getting assigned your ip's via dhcp or equal. If the RTE you refer to is bob, amy, nate, carl, dennis (and whoever else I've forgotten)... which it looks like since I have thee block right after you, you should do: set ppp wan0-0 ipcp 65.165.40.38 write reboot Thats what I had to do last night to get back up 15 May 01, at 20:23, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > I've got DSL, finally got the modem to train in, Nate and the Boyz and > Grrlz at RTE took care of their end, but I'm not sure I'm getting to the > outside world. I can't use ping from the 678 to the world. ----------- > wan0 Physical Port: Trained > > Dest IP Address Mask > wan0-0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.255 > > Static IP Address Mask > wan0-0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.255 > ------------ > Does it bother anyone else that the wan0-0 Static IP is all zeros, or is > that right? From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 15 21:41:43 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Alpha hardware, not systems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010515214143.59b5cdd9.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Ben Kochie wrote: > > I agree.. the x86 hardware needs a re-vamp. and hopefully the 64bit > platforms will get most of that fixed. Heh, I think that the Pentium was actually supposed to drop the legacy x86 support. The same was supposed to be true for their 64-bit chips, though I thought I heard that they are going to be x86 compatible as well. Unfortunately, I think that Intel, Microsoft, or someone has been rubbing off on other companies who have been putting out consumer hardware. Maybe I just wasn't paying attention before, but there seem to be a lot of buggy chipsets out there. I think there are some manufacturers who believe that `consumer-grade' means that there can be four times as many bugs when it gets shipped. That's a bad mode of thought, in my opinion, as many consumers can really push their hardware. Conversely, look into any server room and you're probably going to find at least a handful of PCs. This means that some really important stuff could be depending on potentially buggy `consumer-grade' hardware. Part of my reason for looking at different architectures is to get away from that mode of thought. I'd be willing to pay 2x or 3x the `consumer' price in order to get hardware that has been more fully tested, and is therefore less likely to completely toast my data. Unfortunately, it appears that sellers want me to pay even more (4x-10x or more) to get such a level of quality. Who am I? NASA? -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ I'll listen to reason / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ when it comes out on CD \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From andy at theasis.com Tue May 15 21:52:39 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Input/output error on a SCSI volume Message-ID: This evening I started getting the following error when trying to write to a volume on a SCSI drive: [root@lasiurus /mp3]# touch blah touch: blah: Input/output error This is /dev/sdc12 on /mp3 type ext2 (rw), Other partitions on the same drive are writable no problem. I can't umount it either: [lasiurus:/]$ sudo umount /mp3 umount: /mp3: device is busy Tho I don't know what else is using it, other than maybe SMB shares. What's causing this? How do I find out what's preventing the umount? Suggestions? I don't want to *gasp!* reboot. Thanks, Andy From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 15 21:59:59 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Input/output error on a SCSI volume In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 15 May 2001 andy@theasis.com wrote: > What's causing this? Hrm, dunno. > How do I find out what's preventing the umount? lsof Probably. > Suggestions? I don't want to *gasp!* reboot. If you wait long enough or start taking potshots at processes, you might free it up. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 15 22:14:17 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Almost last DSL question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 15 May 2001, Jay W. Anderson wrote: > If I understand the situation correctly, the only time that wan 0-0 > should show all 0's is iff you are getting assigned your ip's via > dhcp or equal. If the RTE you refer to is bob, amy, nate, carl, > dennis (and whoever else I've forgotten)... which it looks like > since I have thee block right after you, you should do: > set ppp wan0-0 ipcp 65.165.40.38 > write > reboot > Thats what I had to do last night to get back up I've tried -- not succesful. I think I'll go down in the basement and try starting fresh with the serial cable. What you say makes sense, but everything (including the HOWTO/docs at www.real-time.com) say to issue 'set ppp wan0-0 ipcp 0.0.0.0' Also, I got the idea that the router IP should be assigned to eth0. The aforementioned docs say 192.168.x.x, which is goofy if you have a subnet, no? I feel like I've got most of the pieces. It's gotta be something small. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From foeclan at winternet.com Tue May 15 22:13:52 2001 From: foeclan at winternet.com (Michael Vieths) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Input/output error on a SCSI volume In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Any interesting information in dmesg? -- Michael Vieths Foeclan@Winternet.Com On Tue, 15 May 2001 andy@theasis.com wrote: > > This evening I started getting the following error when trying to write to > a volume on a SCSI drive: > [root@lasiurus /mp3]# touch blah > touch: blah: Input/output error > > Andy > From ben at nerp.net Tue May 15 22:15:18 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Alpha hardware, not systems In-Reply-To: <20010515214143.59b5cdd9.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I know exactly how you feel.. I get so anoyed with all the hardware reviews on the web that are all about speed, squeezing a few more bytes/sec out of the hardware. but I never see stability reports.. all the windows users just shrug off the crashes as windows problem.. when it all comes down to it.. it's a hardware bug 50% of the time. (for bad box-killing crashes) some of these problems are so wierd, I almost start to blame _linux_ for crahses, when it's actualy hardware. (not being able to see kernel pannic's in GUI mode can be really frustrating) what I've done over the last few years with PC hardware, was to stop buying all the really cheap generic PC hardware, and to stick with more thuroughly tested systems. the only non-fun thing about this, is you loose some of the nice things like standard motherboards, and latest/greatest CPU speeds. and video hardware. frankly, most of the stuff is fast enough for what I do these days. I love dell optiplex systems for general user use, and if you need preformance and stability.. check out things like the precision workstation. it's about all you can do to guarntee stability in any kind of quantity Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Tue, 15 May 2001, Mike Hicks wrote: > Ben Kochie wrote: > > > > I agree.. the x86 hardware needs a re-vamp. and hopefully the 64bit > > platforms will get most of that fixed. > > Heh, I think that the Pentium was actually supposed to drop the legacy x86 > support. The same was supposed to be true for their 64-bit chips, though > I thought I heard that they are going to be x86 compatible as well. > > > Unfortunately, I think that Intel, Microsoft, or someone has been rubbing > off on other companies who have been putting out consumer hardware. Maybe > I just wasn't paying attention before, but there seem to be a lot of buggy > chipsets out there. I think there are some manufacturers who believe that > `consumer-grade' means that there can be four times as many bugs when it > gets shipped. > > That's a bad mode of thought, in my opinion, as many consumers can really > push their hardware. Conversely, look into any server room and you're > probably going to find at least a handful of PCs. This means that some > really important stuff could be depending on potentially buggy > `consumer-grade' hardware. > > Part of my reason for looking at different architectures is to get away > from that mode of thought. I'd be willing to pay 2x or 3x the `consumer' > price in order to get hardware that has been more fully tested, and is > therefore less likely to completely toast my data. Unfortunately, it > appears that sellers want me to pay even more (4x-10x or more) to get such > a level of quality. Who am I? NASA? > > -- > _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ I'll listen to reason > / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ when it comes out on CD > \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) > [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOwHwx8tpDhsSpvgtAQGQmgP+Jd8/BKSV66wwtKX/1RPq3WrDUynd+2gZ 1HAty1iNUa9pEHhvmYHiDvVEI4bw07KqhTskAiOPMt3ZoAmh7hnJgXx00YYFvGNS fl9rda5gNlKK5LldvGvcT9DExurm9NAKAiYTeDkAbf5/Y4ChR1mE8GwCgH6EyIPL 6Ca+En4s45Q= =E4jj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From John at visi.com Tue May 15 22:14:17 2001 From: John at visi.com (John@visi.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ambient temperature probes In-Reply-To: <20010515190959.7e4590d6.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> References: <20010515190959.7e4590d6.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <01051522163600.00634@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 15 May 2001, you wrote: > I'm looking for a good way to keep watch over the temperature in the > Try B&B Electronics, been using the 232DTT on a DOS serial port for years with no problems, and it's has programable alarms. Not sure about Linux app's. $75 http://www.bb-elec.com/product.asp?sku=232dtt John Goerg From keyj001 at worldnet.att.net Tue May 15 22:19:31 2001 From: keyj001 at worldnet.att.net (Joseph Key) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apology References: <3b004592.4ba6.269167349@cloudnet.com><20010514180906.I13830@real-time.com><20010514191702.577bacbc.hick0088@tc.umn.edu><000901c0dcef$7780d440$0139a8c0@tomobiki.dyndns.org><20010514231040.B12480@real-time.com> Message-ID: <001001c0ddb7$0f98ce00$0139a8c0@tomobiki.dyndns.org> I couldn't find any reference to FreeCRT on the search engines. I did try PuTTY and I like the look but it doesn't seem to do X forwarding. TeraTERM can X forward and it will also forward any other port. So you can set it to use you favorite client pointed to localhost. Then with ssh forwarding setup the client will get it's information from the system you are connected to via ssh. TeraTERM does use a setup program but it writes all the files to the subdirectory you set. I doesn't need to write any files to system directories. Joseph Key ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Dyer-Bennet" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 11:50 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Apology > Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom writes: > > > > You can also use TeraTERM with the teraterm SSH extension. You can get Tera > > > TERM at http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA002416/teraterm.html and the SSH > > > extension at http://www.zip.com.au/~roca/ttssh.html . I used this combo all > > > the time. > > > > if teraterm supports SSH tunneling, how hard would it be to make puTTY > > support it? for general use, puTTY beats the crap out of every other Windows > > SSH client I've seen; free or commercial. > > Huh; I find it considerably inferior to FreeCRT, myself. (Putty, that > is). Putty is still darned useful, especially the fact that it's a > single .exe that takes no installation. Many sysadmins don't lock > down the system so carefully that I can't run putty off a floppy or CD :-). > -- > David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net > SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ > Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From andy at theasis.com Tue May 15 22:27:36 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Input/output error on a SCSI volume In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Any interesting information in dmesg? Ack! I'll say (I'd been watching messages only)... A whole bunch of these: SCSI disk error : host 0 channel 0 id 2 lun 0 return code = 28000002 [valid=0] Info fld=0x0, Current sd08:2c: sns = 70 2 ASC=40 ASCQ=85 Raw sense data:0x70 0x00 0x02 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x18 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x40 0x85 0x00 0x00 scsidisk I/O error: dev 08:2c, sector 32 EXT2-fs error (device sd(8,44)): ext2_write_inode: unable to read inode block - inode=2, block=4 SCSI disk error : host 0 channel 0 id 2 lun 0 return code = 28000002 [valid=0] Info fld=0x0, Current sd08:2c: sns = 70 2 ASC=40 ASCQ=85 Raw sense data:0x70 0x00 0x02 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x18 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x40 0x85 0x00 0x00 scsidisk I/O error: dev 08:2c, sector 0 How do I go about repairing this? Thanks, Andy > > -- > Michael Vieths > Foeclan@Winternet.Com > > On Tue, 15 May 2001 andy@theasis.com wrote: > > > > > This evening I started getting the following error when trying to write to > > a volume on a SCSI drive: > > [root@lasiurus /mp3]# touch blah > > touch: blah: Input/output error > > > > Andy > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From foeclan at winternet.com Tue May 15 22:38:26 2001 From: foeclan at winternet.com (Michael Vieths) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Input/output error on a SCSI volume In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Okey, let's see if I can interpret without my books (which are at work). Byte two of your Sense Data is the Sense Key (0x02, Not Ready). Sense Code and Qualifier of 40 and 85 is Diagnostic Failure (40) on component 85 (presumably something in your disk, that part's vendor specific). I'd recommend backing up any useful data you've got and running whatever diagnostics you might have for the disk; it looks like it's hardware. (useful data is in the Linux SCSI-Programming HOWTO, but it won't tell you much more than what I did) -- Michael Vieths Foeclan@Winternet.Com On Tue, 15 May 2001 andy@theasis.com wrote: > > Any interesting information in dmesg? > > Ack! I'll say (I'd been watching messages only)... > A whole bunch of these: > > SCSI disk error : host 0 channel 0 id 2 lun 0 return code = 28000002 > [valid=0] Info fld=0x0, Current sd08:2c: sns = 70 2 > ASC=40 ASCQ=85 > Raw sense data:0x70 0x00 0x02 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x18 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 > 0x40 0x85 0x00 0x00 > scsidisk I/O error: dev 08:2c, sector 32 > EXT2-fs error (device sd(8,44)): ext2_write_inode: unable to read inode > block - inode=2, block=4 > SCSI disk error : host 0 channel 0 id 2 lun 0 return code = 28000002 > [valid=0] Info fld=0x0, Current sd08:2c: sns = 70 2 > ASC=40 ASCQ=85 > Raw sense data:0x70 0x00 0x02 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x18 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 > 0x40 0x85 0x00 0x00 > scsidisk I/O error: dev 08:2c, sector 0 > > > How do I go about repairing this? > Thanks, > > Andy > > > > > -- > > Michael Vieths > > Foeclan@Winternet.Com > > > > On Tue, 15 May 2001 andy@theasis.com wrote: > > > > > > > > This evening I started getting the following error when trying to write to > > > a volume on a SCSI drive: > > > [root@lasiurus /mp3]# touch blah > > > touch: blah: Input/output error > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From andy at theasis.com Tue May 15 22:43:53 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Input/output error on a SCSI volume In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Byte two of your Sense Data is the Sense Key (0x02, Not Ready). Sense Code > and Qualifier of 40 and 85 is Diagnostic Failure (40) on component 85 > (presumably something in your disk, that part's vendor specific). I'd > recommend backing up any useful data you've got and running whatever > diagnostics you might have for the disk; it looks like it's hardware. You're talking diagnostics from the disk or controller? Or more along the lines of e2fsck? (I'm afeared that you're talking something a bit more serious than a simple fsck). Sorry to be slow (it's denial). Andy > > -- > Michael Vieths > Foeclan@Winternet.Com From foeclan at winternet.com Tue May 15 22:53:32 2001 From: foeclan at winternet.com (Michael Vieths) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Input/output error on a SCSI volume In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm not sure if it'd be something worse, but I'd guess that it is; Your disk is telling the controller that something's failing its diagnostic check (whatever component 85h is; if you look around the vendor's site for whoever made your hard drive they might have a white paper or API or something that'll tell you what component 85h is). First thing is to back up data, then I'd give fsck a shot. Based on the I/O error you mentioned, I'm skeptical that that'll work, but it's worth a shot; if you have a vendor-supplied diagnostic disk or utility, that would be the best thing to do after backing up your data (noticing a theme?). My guess is that a component on the hard drive has failed, and the drive would need to be repaired or replaced. Sorry to be the interpreter of potentially bad news. -- Michael Vieths Foeclan@Winternet.Com On Tue, 15 May 2001 andy@theasis.com wrote: > > > > Byte two of your Sense Data is the Sense Key (0x02, Not Ready). Sense Code > > and Qualifier of 40 and 85 is Diagnostic Failure (40) on component 85 > > (presumably something in your disk, that part's vendor specific). I'd > > recommend backing up any useful data you've got and running whatever > > diagnostics you might have for the disk; it looks like it's hardware. > > You're talking diagnostics from the disk or controller? Or more along the > lines of e2fsck? (I'm afeared that you're talking something a bit more > serious than a simple fsck). > > Sorry to be slow (it's denial). > > Andy From chrome at real-time.com Tue May 15 23:01:26 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux rocks! (IRDA Modem with a Nokia 8290) In-Reply-To: ; from natecars@real-time.com on Tue, May 15, 2001 at 05:56:20PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010515230126.D17803@real-time.com> > Using kernel 2.4.5pre2, I got my Nokia 8290 working as a modem on my > laptop. Only get 9600kbps connections, but hey, that's OK. the bit he didn't spell out in huge letters, was that he's doing this over the IR port, just by laying the cell phone next to his laptop. ;> at last, what I've always wanted... a CLI for telephones. :) Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From chrome at real-time.com Tue May 15 23:13:29 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Almost last DSL question In-Reply-To: ; from mend0070@tc.umn.edu on Tue, May 15, 2001 at 10:14:17PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010515231324.E17803@real-time.com> > What you say makes sense, but everything (including the HOWTO/docs at > www.real-time.com) say to issue > 'set ppp wan0-0 ipcp 0.0.0.0' yeah, that *ought* to work. that's what the Cisco manual says to do; and indeed what works for many customers. what it means is that it should get its IP assignment from the RADIUS server here; which lists the static address to be associated with your username/passwd. sometimes it doesn't, tho; so it doesn't hurt to 'set ppp wan0-0 ipcp 65.165.40.38' in your case. > Also, I got the idea that the router IP should be assigned to eth0. The > aforementioned docs say 192.168.x.x, which is goofy if you have a subnet, > no? yes, the router IP should be assigned to both wan0-0 and eth0. when I wrote that doco I had to pick *some* address, so I chose a reserved address to avoid stepping on anyone's toes. you *should* substitute a routeable IP in place of the non-routeable one I put in the docs, in this case. if anyone has suggesstions on how to make this clearer, I'd be more than happy to listen to them. Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From dd-b at dd-b.net Tue May 15 17:17:29 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apology In-Reply-To: <20010515130150.A22752@iaxs.net> References: <3b004592.4ba6.269167349@cloudnet.com> <20010514180906.I13830@real-time.com> <20010514191702.577bacbc.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <000901c0dcef$7780d440$0139a8c0@tomobiki.dyndns.org> <20010514231040.B12480@real-time.com> <20010515130150.A22752@iaxs.net> Message-ID: Scott Raun writes: > On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 11:50:04AM -0500, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > Huh; I find it considerably inferior to FreeCRT, myself. (Putty, that > > is). > > So, do you have pointer to FreeCRT? My two favorite sources came up > blank. http://www.vandyke.com/ -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From andy at theasis.com Tue May 15 18:57:36 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Input/output error on a SCSI volume In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I'm not sure if it'd be something worse, but I'd guess that it is; Your Well... Over the last few moments, I've discovered how much I love computers. Indeed, a reboot found the drive to be unavailable to the system. Thanks for all the suggestions. I backed up what I could, but I couldn't actually get everything, because those 3 partitions that I could write to earlier just vanished. Not encouraging. I suppose anything that's gone is by definition not important. Of course it's the 36G (newest & biggest in the system) drive. I've brought the system back up without that drive. Now that mail is working again, I'm going to bed. Tomorrow, I'll investigate this per your recommendations, and on IBM's site, and see what I see... > Sorry to be the interpreter of potentially bad news. Thanks for the help -- it's far better than no information at all. Andy > -- > Michael Vieths > Foeclan@Winternet.Com From sraun at fireopal.org Wed May 16 07:07:14 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSH Programs - specifically FreeCRT In-Reply-To: ; from dd-b@dd-b.net on Tue, May 15, 2001 at 05:17:29PM -0500 References: <3b004592.4ba6.269167349@cloudnet.com> <20010514180906.I13830@real-time.com> <20010514191702.577bacbc.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <000901c0dcef$7780d440$0139a8c0@tomobiki.dyndns.org> <20010514231040.B12480@real-time.com> <20010515130150.A22752@iaxs.net> Message-ID: <20010516070714.A25849@iaxs.net> On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 05:17:29PM -0500, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Scott Raun writes: > > > On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 11:50:04AM -0500, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > > Huh; I find it considerably inferior to FreeCRT, myself. (Putty, that > > > is). > > > > So, do you have pointer to FreeCRT? My two favorite sources came up > > blank. > > > http://www.vandyke.com/ OK - just went and looked. There's CRT and SecureCRT - the former is about $35, the latter is the one that includes SSH and is about $99. Couldn't find anything called FreeCRT. -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Wed May 16 07:07:15 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Input/output error on a SCSI volume In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010516070715.47c23ab3.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> wrote: > > Of course it's the 36G (newest & biggest in the system) drive. I've > brought the system back up without that drive. Now that mail is working > again, I'm going to bed. Well, I did just read the other day that hard drives are designed to work for about 300,000 hours of operation (do the math -- over 34 years!) Still, 1 in 34 drives dies in the first year. http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5082791,00.html -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Support bacteria - / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ they're the only culture \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) some people have. [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From florin at iucha.net Wed May 16 07:29:05 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Input/output error on a SCSI volume In-Reply-To: ; from foeclan@winternet.com on Tue, May 15, 2001 at 10:38:26PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010516072905.A325@beaver.iucha.org> On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 10:38:26PM -0500, Michael Vieths wrote: > Okey, let's see if I can interpret without my books (which are at work). > > Byte two of your Sense Data is the Sense Key (0x02, Not Ready). Sense Code > and Qualifier of 40 and 85 is Diagnostic Failure (40) on component 85 > (presumably something in your disk, that part's vendor specific). I'd > recommend backing up any useful data you've got and running whatever > diagnostics you might have for the disk; it looks like it's hardware. > I was just installing RedHat on a new (for me) box with a couple of SCSI drives and I've got a "SCSI0: Error on channel" I thought : yet another scsi doorWeight, when after a close inspection motivated by this thread, I read the message _completely_. Luckyly for me it was the CD-ROM... maybe some dust. Whoaaaa... florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From deskrw at yahoo.com.tw Wed May 16 07:38:19 2001 From: deskrw at yahoo.com.tw (deskrw@yahoo.com.tw) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DVD Message-ID: <200105161238.f4GCcJK11194@sprite.real-time.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative From ksm at dogbrain.com Wed May 16 08:05:29 2001 From: ksm at dogbrain.com (Karl Morgan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apology In-Reply-To: ; from dd-b@dd-b.net on Tue, May 15, 2001 at 05:17:29PM -0500 References: <3b004592.4ba6.269167349@cloudnet.com> <20010514180906.I13830@real-time.com> <20010514191702.577bacbc.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <000901c0dcef$7780d440$0139a8c0@tomobiki.dyndns.org> <20010514231040.B12480@real-time.com> <20010515130150.A22752@iaxs.net> Message-ID: <20010516080529.A6729@dogbrain.com> > > So, do you have pointer to FreeCRT? My two favorite sources came up > > blank. > > > http://www.vandyke.com/ Still not finding it. I see $ecurecrt, not freecrt. Regards - Karl From zibby at ringworld.org Wed May 16 09:21:04 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Olympys Turbo MO drives Message-ID: Anyone else had any trouble with their MO drives (or did you all sell them :P ) I poped in a disk the other day and attempted to mount it and my system locked (or did it kernel panic? can't remember now, will have to check when I get home...) The disk I poped in mounted fine under Linux before (a kernel version of two ago...) and still reads fine on the windows side of my box. I don't think it's a termination issue, the chain goes kenwood cd-rom, plextor burner, turbo mo. All devices have termination disabled as I have an active terminator on the MO drive (or on the back of the computer if the mo drive isn't connected.) Just wondering if anyone else has seen similar problems. On a similar note, anyone have the recommended fdisk command to use on one of these? I don't recall what happened to my manual. :) | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From jethro at freakzilla.com Wed May 16 09:42:39 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Olympys Turbo MO drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, On Wed, 16 May 2001, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > Anyone else had any trouble with their MO drives (or did you all sell > them :P ) Sell it! That's an idea! FS: One Olympus MO drive... will trade for CDRW... -Yaron -- From florin at iucha.net Wed May 16 09:39:03 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Olympys Turbo MO drives In-Reply-To: ; from zibby@ringworld.org on Wed, May 16, 2001 at 09:21:04AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010516093903.A28025@beaver.iucha.org> On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 09:21:04AM -0500, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > Anyone else had any trouble with their MO drives (or did you all sell > them :P ) I poped in a disk the other day and attempted to mount it and my > system locked (or did it kernel panic? can't remember now, will have to > check when I get home...) > > The disk I poped in mounted fine under Linux before (a kernel version of > two ago...) and still reads fine on the windows side of my box. I remember a couple of threads on LKML about MO devices with sector size different than 512 won't work with Linux. Some relief might be in the -ac series. Go to a LKML archive for the last month and do a search. florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From austad at marketwatch.com Wed May 16 10:13:49 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Olympys Turbo MO drives Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280797@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> They are $355 new on buy.com. If someone trades me a 16x Yamaha LightSpeed burner (SCSI), I'll happily give mine up. They (the burners) are only $245 at mwave.com. :) > -----Original Message----- > From: Yaron [mailto:jethro@freakzilla.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 9:43 AM > To: TCLUG-list > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Olympys Turbo MO drives > > > Hi, > > On Wed, 16 May 2001, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > > > Anyone else had any trouble with their MO drives (or did > you all sell > > them :P ) > > Sell it! That's an idea! > > FS: One Olympus MO drive... will trade for CDRW... > > -Yaron > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jonathankl_2001 at yahoo.com Wed May 16 10:16:28 2001 From: jonathankl_2001 at yahoo.com (Jonathan Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Eth0 Isssues with 2.4.1 Message-ID: <20010516151628.17533.qmail@web13408.mail.yahoo.com> So I just upgraded a box to kernel 2.4.1, it has a Linksys LAN Card using teh Eth0 module, while running 2.2.13 I had zero dropped packets and ping times of 1ms, now with Kernel 2.4.1 I have thousands of dropped packets on the interface and ping times close to 900ms..... Any one have any thoughts or ideas? Network location and segments is all teh same..... TIA, ===== -Jonathan A. Kline -jonathankl@gidzero.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed May 16 10:31:35 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Olympys Turbo MO drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 May 2001, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > Anyone else had any trouble with their MO drives (or did you all sell > them :P No. It works fine, it's cute, I got 3GB worth of freebie disks too from them, none have given me trouble. > On a similar note, anyone have the recommended fdisk command to use on one > of these? I don't recall what happened to my manual. :) fdisk -b 2048 /dev/sd_ also, mkfs -b 2048 /dev/sd_ If you're not using 640MB media, you can omit the -b 2048, but the manual says (under both commands) "In doing this, if option '-b 2048' is not assigned for a 640MB disk (2,048 bytes/sector disk), not that the system may hang up or it may take very long time when command mkfs is issued." Also, "When it is required to change the formatting format (NTFS, MS-DOS, etc.), it is required to use option '-t xxxxx'. (duh.) I wonder -- perhaps you forgot the 2048 block size originally? But you asked, so you must have. Hrm. happy hunting. Phil M -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From andy at theasis.com Wed May 16 05:39:38 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Olympys Turbo MO drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > No. It works fine, it's cute, I got 3GB worth of freebie disks too from > them, none have given me trouble. How'd you do that? I only got one disk (640M). Andy > > Phil M > > From pc451 at yahoo.com Wed May 16 10:40:26 2001 From: pc451 at yahoo.com (Peter Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ambient temperature probes In-Reply-To: <20010515190959.7e4590d6.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010516154026.69978.qmail@web11108.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike Hicks wrote: > I'm looking for a good way to keep watch over the temperature in the > server room at work.. I know that there are a number of temperature > probes and stuff out there, but I haven't ever seen any of them in > operation. Preferably, I'd just like something that I can plug into > a > parallel port or something, and that doesn't require me soldering > parts > together (my soldering skillz aren't that great ;-) Have you heard of Dallas Semiconductor's (http://www.dalsemi.com) DS18S20? It's a cheap little temperature probe that, with the DS9097U, plugs into a serial port. It looks to be a neat little gadget for cheap (something around $2.50 for the probe, and $10 for the serial adapter) and you can even hook several together. Well supported under Linux. Check out freshmeat for "dallas" or go to http://www.brianlane.com/digitemp.php for DigiTemp, a software controller for the DS18S20 for Linux (older versions support DOS and Win95). One of these days I'll get around to buying this stuff. :Peter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Wed May 16 10:41:27 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Atomic PC Clock Message-ID: Anyone use one of these? It might make for a nice cheap NTP server. Anyone know of Linux drivers for these? They seem to sell the docs on the serial data exchange with the unit, so if there aren't any now that could be remedied. http://www.radiocontrolledclock.com/noname4.html From veldy at veldy.net Wed May 16 10:42:49 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Eth0 Isssues with 2.4.1 References: <20010516151628.17533.qmail@web13408.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006201c0de1e$dd44e980$3028680a@tgt.com> Did you try using the old kernel and see if you are still getting that latency? I suspect the problem is your network [connection] and not the kernel. I use the Linksys 10/100 cards fine (version 2.0, 4.0 and 4.1). Also, they don't use the eth0 module, there is no such thing -- it is the tulip module. You may find that it is aliased in /etc/modules.conf. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Kline" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 10:16 AM Subject: [TCLUG] Eth0 Isssues with 2.4.1 > So I just upgraded a box to kernel 2.4.1, it has a Linksys LAN Card using > teh Eth0 module, while running 2.2.13 I had zero dropped packets and ping > times of 1ms, now with Kernel 2.4.1 I have thousands of dropped packets on > the interface and ping times close to 900ms..... Any one have any thoughts > or ideas? Network location and segments is all teh same..... > > TIA, > > > ===== > -Jonathan A. Kline > -jonathankl@gidzero.net > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed May 16 10:47:14 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Atomic PC Clock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 May 2001, Troy Johnson wrote: > Anyone use one of these? It might make for a nice cheap NTP server. > > Anyone know of Linux drivers for these? > > They seem to sell the docs on the serial data exchange with the unit, > so if there aren't any now that could be remedied. > > http://www.radiocontrolledclock.com/noname4.html All it does is sync to WWV, I think. You don't need to spend the money, because IIRC you can already do that over the net (and adjust for latency). -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed May 16 10:48:05 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Olympys Turbo MO drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 May 2001 andy@theasis.com wrote: > > > > No. It works fine, it's cute, I got 3GB worth of freebie disks too from > > them, none have given me trouble. > > How'd you do that? I only got one disk (640M). They said "post to our web forum and we'll give you a box of disks." So I did. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed May 16 10:58:29 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] test message Message-ID: This is a legitimate test of some mail handling changes. This is the only test message I will send. -Brian From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Wed May 16 11:07:09 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Atomic PC Clock Message-ID: I know you can use NTP to hook into an upstream time server, but if you aren't connected all the time or you would just like some independence/redundancy, this seems like an inexpensive option. I don't think I will buy one soon, and the only reason I mention it is that I really thought these things were more expensive than $100. >>> mend0070@tc.umn.edu 05/16/01 10:47AM >>> On Wed, 16 May 2001, Troy Johnson wrote: > Anyone use one of these? It might make for a nice cheap NTP server. > > Anyone know of Linux drivers for these? > > They seem to sell the docs on the serial data exchange with the unit, > so if there aren't any now that could be remedied. > > http://www.radiocontrolledclock.com/noname4.html All it does is sync to WWV, I think. You don't need to spend the money, because IIRC you can already do that over the net (and adjust for latency). -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed May 16 11:29:45 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSH, E-mail, and VPN (was Apology) In-Reply-To: <3B019AE3.DD4326B@eetc.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 May 2001, Simeon Johnston wrote: > As long as your going that far... > Why not just set up a VPN? FreeSWAN/PoPToP would be really cool. > Windoze --> Firewall w/ FreeSWAN --> Mail Server ( linux of course w/ > FreeSWAN ) > Should be incredibly secure. : ) > Or.... > Windoze w/ Free PPTP client --> Mail server w/ PoPToP ( also linux ) > All this of course depends on wether you control your own mail server. > :-) > > sim > Ok, which brings me to a question that's been lingering in my mind lately. Why not roll your own VPN solution using SSH? From the looks of it, SSH has all the components you'd need to establish an encrypted tunnel and export your X sessions and stuff. Anyway, that's just my thought. I'm still a newbie to VPN, so maybe I'm missing something entirely. -Brian From veldy at veldy.net Wed May 16 11:34:35 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Atomic PC Clock - (a little FreeBSD slant) References: Message-ID: <008501c0de26$181f1e70$3028680a@tgt.com> You only need to make a connection to an ntp server on a periodic basis (and you can script it to initiate a dial-up connection). It doesn't reset your clock, it changes the "speed" of you clock so that it can minimize drift. If you are ahead, it will slow you clock down, if you are behind, it will speed your clock up. I believe it only affects the OS clock, so unless you save your system clock to the hardware clock, the changes are lost. This is an excellent way to do it, as it avoids time discrepencies in databases and file modification times. I my FreeBSD system check time.nist.gov once daily and I haven't seen anything greater than about a 3 second drift on a bad day. Incidentally, on FreeBSD you can do this in a periodic script: #!/bin/sh # /usr/local/etc/periodic/daily/100.ntp-timeadj # If there is a global system configuration file, suck it in. # if [ -r /etc/defaults/periodic.conf ] then . /etc/defaults/periodic.conf source_periodic_confs fi case "$daily_ntp_time_adj_enable" in [Yy][Ee][Ss]) echo "" echo "Adjusting system time against ntp server:" /usr/sbin/ntpdate time.nist.gov rc=0 ;; *) rc=0;; esac exit $rc And then add: # 100.time_adjustment daily_ntp_time_adj_enable="YES" to your /etc/periodic.conf file. I am setting this machine up to run as an ntp server for the other machines on my LAN so that they are all in sync. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Troy Johnson" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 11:07 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Atomic PC Clock > I know you can use NTP to hook into an upstream time server, but if you aren't connected all the time or you would just like some independence/redundancy, this seems like an inexpensive option. I don't think I will buy one soon, and the only reason I mention it is that I really thought these things were more expensive than $100. > > >>> mend0070@tc.umn.edu 05/16/01 10:47AM >>> > On Wed, 16 May 2001, Troy Johnson wrote: > > > Anyone use one of these? It might make for a nice cheap NTP server. > > > > Anyone know of Linux drivers for these? > > > > They seem to sell the docs on the serial data exchange with the unit, > > so if there aren't any now that could be remedied. > > > > http://www.radiocontrolledclock.com/noname4.html > > All it does is sync to WWV, I think. You don't need to spend the money, > because IIRC you can already do that over the net (and adjust for > latency). > > -- > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Wed May 16 11:53:28 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Atomic PC Clock - (a little FreeBSD slant) Message-ID: Let me know how it goes. I have had some problems using ntpdate on an ntp server because ntpdate wants to use the port the server is listening on. I can (and have) shutdown the ntp server, updated the time using ntpdate (and saved it to the hwclock), and restarted the ntp server, but I think ntpdate is not as sophisticated as you suppose (though I could be very wrong, please tell me if that is so) because the clients will not update from the server for a time afterward. I assumed they were 'pissed off' because their 'stable' time source just shifted a drastic amount. I think that the ntp server does the gradual time adjustment, but upstream server admins like to know about your use of their server (ntp connection-wise, not ntpdate) or they might block you. Didn't the U block the RTE ntp server from syncing, or am I remembering things that didn't happen again? >>> veldy@veldy.net 05/16/01 11:34AM >>> You only need to make a connection to an ntp server on a periodic basis (and you can script it to initiate a dial-up connection). It doesn't reset your clock, it changes the "speed" of you clock so that it can minimize drift. If you are ahead, it will slow you clock down, if you are behind, it will speed your clock up. I believe it only affects the OS clock, so unless you save your system clock to the hardware clock, the changes are lost. This is an excellent way to do it, as it avoids time discrepencies in databases and file modification times. I my FreeBSD system check time.nist.gov once daily and I haven't seen anything greater than about a 3 second drift on a bad day. Incidentally, on FreeBSD you can do this in a periodic script: #!/bin/sh # /usr/local/etc/periodic/daily/100.ntp-timeadj # If there is a global system configuration file, suck it in. # if [ -r /etc/defaults/periodic.conf ] then . /etc/defaults/periodic.conf source_periodic_confs fi case "$daily_ntp_time_adj_enable" in [Yy][Ee][Ss]) echo "" echo "Adjusting system time against ntp server:" /usr/sbin/ntpdate time.nist.gov rc=0 ;; *) rc=0;; esac exit $rc And then add: # 100.time_adjustment daily_ntp_time_adj_enable="YES" to your /etc/periodic.conf file. I am setting this machine up to run as an ntp server for the other machines on my LAN so that they are all in sync. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Troy Johnson" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 11:07 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Atomic PC Clock > I know you can use NTP to hook into an upstream time server, but if you aren't connected all the time or you would just like some independence/redundancy, this seems like an inexpensive option. I don't think I will buy one soon, and the only reason I mention it is that I really thought these things were more expensive than $100. > > >>> mend0070@tc.umn.edu 05/16/01 10:47AM >>> > On Wed, 16 May 2001, Troy Johnson wrote: > > > Anyone use one of these? It might make for a nice cheap NTP server. > > > > Anyone know of Linux drivers for these? > > > > They seem to sell the docs on the serial data exchange with the unit, > > so if there aren't any now that could be remedied. > > > > http://www.radiocontrolledclock.com/noname4.html > > All it does is sync to WWV, I think. You don't need to spend the money, > because IIRC you can already do that over the net (and adjust for > latency). > > -- > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From administrator at ltiflex.com Wed May 16 11:58:17 2001 From: administrator at ltiflex.com (Andy Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSH, E-mail, and VPN (was Apology) References: Message-ID: <3B02B1A9.D44C88C5@ltiflex.com> > Why not roll your own VPN solution using SSH? Totally doable. Just ^chewie. There's a HOWTO out there somewhere. -- Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH) 763-428-9119 (EX) 132 21801 Industrial Blvd | (FX) 763-428-9126 Rogers, MN 55374 | (PCS) 612-306-6055 From bradyh at bitstream.net Wed May 16 12:07:13 2001 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (Brady Hegberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ProFTPD Setup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <990032833.4027.13.camel@lis.llewellyn.com> I'm trying to get ProFTP working on my Redhat 7.1 system and I'm having problems. I can ftp in and I can get files but I can't write them. I've been changing the proftpd.conf file to different configurations and restarting xinetd but it doesn't seem to change what happens when I log in. Is there something else I have to restart? If I put this section in my proftpd.conf file would it allow user webuser to ftp in and ftp files to and from their home directory? I've been reading through the manuals and I can't figure out why it says "Anonymous" when it requires a userid/password. User webuser Group webuser AnonRequirePassword on MaxClients 3 AllowAll AllowAll Thanks, Brady From veldy at veldy.net Wed May 16 12:21:49 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ProFTPD Setup References: <990032833.4027.13.camel@lis.llewellyn.com> Message-ID: <00bf01c0de2c$b19b5bd0$3028680a@tgt.com> Don't use xinetd to start it -- do it through standalone mode and compile it with PAM and libwrap support. I assume you can see what you should change below :) Make sure permissions are correct on your incoming/ directory. ---- ServerName "ProFTPD Veldy.net Installation" ServerType standalone DefaultServer on Port 21 Umask 022 MaxInstances 10 User nobody Group nogroup AllowOverwrite on User ftp Group ftp UserAlias anonymous ftp MaxClients 10 RequireValidShell off DisplayLogin welcome.msg DisplayFirstChdir .message DenyAll DenyAll AllowAll --- Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brady Hegberg" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 12:07 PM Subject: [TCLUG] ProFTPD Setup > I'm trying to get ProFTP working on my Redhat 7.1 system and I'm having problems. I can ftp in and I can get files but I can't write them. > > I've been changing the proftpd.conf file to different configurations and > restarting xinetd but it doesn't seem to change what happens when I log > in. Is there something else I have to restart? > > If I put this section in my proftpd.conf file would it allow user > webuser to ftp in and ftp files to and from their home directory? I've > been reading through the manuals and I can't figure out why it says > "Anonymous" when it requires a userid/password. > > > User webuser > Group webuser > AnonRequirePassword on > > MaxClients 3 > > > > AllowAll > > > > AllowAll > > > > > > Thanks, > Brady > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From veldy at veldy.net Wed May 16 12:26:16 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Atomic PC Clock - (a little FreeBSD slant) References: Message-ID: <00c601c0de2d$508a0110$3028680a@tgt.com> >Didn't the U block the RTE ntp server from syncing, or am I remembering things that didn't happen again? Yes, I believe so. I used to use their server, but it is now block and "invite" only. However, these are known public servers: time.nist.gov time-a.nist.gov time-a.timefreq.bldrdoc.gov time-b.nist.gov time-b.timefreq.bldrdoc.gov time-nw.nist.gov bitsy.mit.edu kuhub.cc.ukans.edu timex.cs.columbia.edu timex.cs.columbia.edu tmc.edu tycho.usno.navy.mil utcnist.colorado.edu Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Wed May 16 12:47:44 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Atomic PC Clock - (a little FreeBSD slant) Message-ID: Thank you much! Is there a link to where this list might be found, or doesn't it change too often? You know, to keep up with the times...ouch. >>> veldy@veldy.net 05/16/01 12:26PM >>> However, these are known public servers: time.nist.gov time-a.nist.gov time-a.timefreq.bldrdoc.gov time-b.nist.gov time-b.timefreq.bldrdoc.gov time-nw.nist.gov bitsy.mit.edu kuhub.cc.ukans.edu timex.cs.columbia.edu timex.cs.columbia.edu tmc.edu tycho.usno.navy.mil utcnist.colorado.edu From spencer at sihope.com Wed May 16 13:03:20 2001 From: spencer at sihope.com (spencer@sihope.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ghost and linux In-Reply-To: <200105161656.f4GGu5K18826@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B027A98.15760.38C977@localhost> I read on the list the other day that someone thought ghost doesn't work with linux. I have proven that theory flawed. I configured a drive with one fat32 and two ext2 and one swap partion. Dual booting between win2die and SuSE 2.2.16. The only problem ghost had was with the mbr. One boot into linux with a quick lilo and a reboot and thats that. I am sure you can easily mulicast the same setup with the ghost server software. I haven't played with that much yet. So ghost is still a good friend. -Spencer Underground From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed May 16 13:17:05 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Atomic PC Clock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 May 2001, Troy Johnson wrote: > I know you can use NTP to hook into an upstream time server, but if > you aren't connected all the time Sorry -- I'm so busy trying to bust out of the intermittent connection thing that I forgot to even consider it. You're right, they should be cool in that case. I believe Heathkit, though just a shadow of their former selves, has something similar too. (Price and contact info unknown, though.) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From wilson at visi.com Wed May 16 13:30:03 2001 From: wilson at visi.com (Timothy Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why does this work? Message-ID: Hey everyone, I need to concatenate a series of text files into one large file. Knowing just enough to be dangerous, I ended up with the following test: wilsont@galileo:~/tmp$ cat file1 A wilsont@galileo:~/tmp$ cat file2 B wilsont@galileo:~/tmp$ cat file3 C wilsont@galileo:~/tmp$ cat file1 >> cat file2 >> cat file3 > newfile wilsont@galileo:~/tmp$ cat newfile A B C wilsont@galileo:~/tmp$ This is exactly what I want, but the redirection on the command line doesn't make sense to me. In fact, the order seems exactly opposite from what it seems like it should be. Can anyone elighten me? -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.org W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From trammell at trammell.dyndns.org Wed May 16 13:01:07 2001 From: trammell at trammell.dyndns.org (John Joseph Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why does this work? In-Reply-To: ; from wilson@visi.com on Wed, May 16, 2001 at 01:30:03PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010516130106.A15694@mn.rr.com> On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 01:30:03PM -0500, Timothy Wilson wrote: [snip] > wilsont@galileo:~/tmp$ cat file1 >> cat file2 >> cat file3 > newfile Never seen it done *that* way before! How about: $ cat file1 file2 file3 > newfile ? -- Aren't you, at this point, cutting down a California Redwood using a banana *and* a particle accelerator? - Bernard El-Hagin, in CLPM From esper at sherohman.org Wed May 16 13:44:23 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why does this work? In-Reply-To: ; from wilson@visi.com on Wed, May 16, 2001 at 01:30:03PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010516134423.A2942@sherohman.org> On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 01:30:03PM -0500, Timothy Wilson wrote: > wilsont@galileo:~/tmp$ cat file1 >> cat file2 >> cat file3 > newfile > wilsont@galileo:~/tmp$ cat newfile > A > B > C > wilsont@galileo:~/tmp$ > > This is exactly what I want, but the redirection on the command line doesn't > make sense to me. In fact, the order seems exactly opposite from what it > seems like it should be. Freakier still: $ cat file1 >> cat file2 >> cat file3 $ cat cat A B C I grok why a file named cat is being created (FYI, your original example creates an empty file named cat in addition to creating newfile) and why it contains the A and the B, but it doesn't seem like the C should be there. -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.1: GCS d? s+: a- C++ UL++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w---$ O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv b+ DI++++ D G e* h+ r y+ From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Wed May 16 14:04:00 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Atomic PC Clock Message-ID: From ben at nerp.net Wed May 16 14:16:32 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why does this work? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- odd.. it doesn't work the same way in tcsh.. must be a wierd property of bash Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Wed, 16 May 2001, Timothy Wilson wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I need to concatenate a series of text files into one large file. Knowing > just enough to be dangerous, I ended up with the following test: > > wilsont@galileo:~/tmp$ cat file1 > A > wilsont@galileo:~/tmp$ cat file2 > B > wilsont@galileo:~/tmp$ cat file3 > C > wilsont@galileo:~/tmp$ cat file1 >> cat file2 >> cat file3 > newfile > wilsont@galileo:~/tmp$ cat newfile > A > B > C > wilsont@galileo:~/tmp$ > > This is exactly what I want, but the redirection on the command line doesn't > make sense to me. In fact, the order seems exactly opposite from what it > seems like it should be. > > Can anyone elighten me? > > -Tim > > -- > Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: > Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.org > W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org > wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOwLSFMtpDhsSpvgtAQH0EgQAq70bcBda6Rix2xh9794F2wP/v7AQnGZg qz4oih/FXh2TDnizxKufzS+RR+OjtLF/A6fglknoLWeOJgNntwMg4iniBGALF3YU 31xk+QM31RbacrQfxMAdiEsD3QUEtM69l4awNfVvOm8m/5iQHSkgs/TcfpvptuWd LnNkOMJggtk= =4ikU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Wed May 16 14:18:19 2001 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why does this work? In-Reply-To: ; from wilson@visi.com on Wed, May 16, 2001 at 01:30:03PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010516141818.A6501@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 01:30:03PM -0500, Timothy Wilson wrote: > I need to concatenate a series of text files into one large file. Knowing > just enough to be dangerous, I ended up with the following test: > > wilsont@galileo:~/tmp$ cat file1 > A > wilsont@galileo:~/tmp$ cat file2 > B > wilsont@galileo:~/tmp$ cat file3 > C > wilsont@galileo:~/tmp$ cat file1 >> cat file2 >> cat file3 > newfile > wilsont@galileo:~/tmp$ cat newfile > A > B > C > wilsont@galileo:~/tmp$ > > This is exactly what I want, but the redirection on the command line doesn't > make sense to me. In fact, the order seems exactly opposite from what it > seems like it should be. > > Can anyone elighten me? That's strange. Your shell is bash, right? [t]csh gives me an Ambiguous redirect error when I try it, but bash and sh give the same results you got. Also, I get the same results with cat file1 > cat file2 > cat file3 > newfile -- Jim Crumley | crumley@fields.space.umn.edu | Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378 | From thudak at sistina.com Wed May 16 14:21:51 2001 From: thudak at sistina.com (Tom Hudak) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ambient temperature probes In-Reply-To: ; from ben@nerp.net on Tue, May 15, 2001 at 07:34:10PM -0500 References: <20010515190959.7e4590d6.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010516142151.A13206@localhost> On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 07:34:10PM -0500, Ben Kochie wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >at the IMA, we have a device called a "hot little therm" I gota lookup >URL's for them.. http://www.spiderplant.com/hlt/ <--- There it is. :-) Cool little device. Thanks, -- Thomas J. Hudak Systems Administrator Sistina Software Inc. - www.sistina.com Phone: 612.638.0500 x.513 Fax: 612.379.3952 Page: 612.318.1967 Key fingerprint = BEC6 3181 4C9B A7BB AF11 4717 6F85 B346 380D 523E sleep: Command not found - The story of my life... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010516/95fe0d79/attachment.pgp From dd-b at dd-b.net Wed May 16 14:36:30 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSH Programs - specifically FreeCRT In-Reply-To: <20010516070714.A25849@iaxs.net> References: <3b004592.4ba6.269167349@cloudnet.com> <20010514180906.I13830@real-time.com> <20010514191702.577bacbc.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <000901c0dcef$7780d440$0139a8c0@tomobiki.dyndns.org> <20010514231040.B12480@real-time.com> <20010515130150.A22752@iaxs.net> <20010516070714.A25849@iaxs.net> Message-ID: Scott Raun writes: > On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 05:17:29PM -0500, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > Scott Raun writes: > > > > > On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 11:50:04AM -0500, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > > > Huh; I find it considerably inferior to FreeCRT, myself. (Putty, that > > > > is). > > > > > > So, do you have pointer to FreeCRT? My two favorite sources came up > > > blank. > > > > > > http://www.vandyke.com/ > > OK - just went and looked. There's CRT and SecureCRT - the former is > about $35, the latter is the one that includes SSH and is about > $99. Couldn't find anything called FreeCRT. Major brain fart here. What you found is what I'm using. Gotta get that brain-washing appointment, the filter is starting to plug up. -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From pc451 at yahoo.com Wed May 16 15:04:01 2001 From: pc451 at yahoo.com (Peter Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] External Zip100 drive and computer badges Message-ID: <20010516200401.61553.qmail@web11104.mail.yahoo.com> This is for anyone planning on attending the installfest next month. I have a dinky little laptop that I want to replace; building my new system will hopefully commence before the 16th of June. However, I have several hundred mb of files (text, mps, etc.) that I want to import from my laptop to my new system. Thus, the question: does anyone have a zip100 PARALLEL (not SCSI) external drive that they would be willing to bring to the installfest? I'll supply the disks, and I will only need it for however long it takes to copy all the files onto the disks and onto my new system (it will have an internal drive). Also (and this is just for fun), I will be ordering a computer badge from LinuxMall. Since I can order a total of four without paying additional shipping & handling, I thought I would ask if anyone would like to place an order. See http://linuxmall.com/shop/?search=badge&SID=d4dae8d52159f4636382287cf088d685 for your options. I'll pay s&h, and you just pay me a dollar or give me something of equal value (caffinated beverages ok) at the installfest. Want a snazzy Tux button for your new computer? Respond off-list. :Peter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From mccloud at wiredhot.net Wed May 16 15:32:30 2001 From: mccloud at wiredhot.net (Bob McCloud) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Eth0 Isssues with 2.4.1 In-Reply-To: <006201c0de1e$dd44e980$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: <3B029D8E.1849.A91CC47@localhost> On 16 May 2001, at 10:42, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > Did you try using the old kernel and see if you are still getting that > latency? I suspect the problem is your network [connection] and not > the kernel. I had the same problem. No clue why, but mine didnt like the ip address. Thinking I may have duped it, I manually checked all the machines. It was a clean ip address. After re-assigning to a different ip, everything worked fine. Bob From florin at iucha.net Wed May 16 15:56:50 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Eth0 Isssues with 2.4.1 In-Reply-To: <3B029D8E.1849.A91CC47@localhost>; from mccloud@wiredhot.net on Wed, May 16, 2001 at 03:32:30PM -0500 References: <006201c0de1e$dd44e980$3028680a@tgt.com> <3B029D8E.1849.A91CC47@localhost> Message-ID: <20010516155650.A24217@beaver.iucha.org> On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 03:32:30PM -0500, Bob McCloud wrote: > On 16 May 2001, at 10:42, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > > > Did you try using the old kernel and see if you are still getting that > > latency? I suspect the problem is your network [connection] and not > > the kernel. > > I had the same problem. No clue why, but mine didnt like the ip > address. Thinking I may have duped it, I manually checked all the > machines. It was a clean ip address. After re-assigning to a > different ip, everything worked fine. Uh-oh. Today the IP address, tommorow the default gateway... 8-) florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From mccloud at wiredhot.net Wed May 16 17:09:18 2001 From: mccloud at wiredhot.net (Bob McCloud) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cisco 804 Message-ID: <3B02B43E.15904.AEA6EEC@localhost> Anyone interested in a Cisco 804? The last bid on ebay at 4:30 today was $312.00. Used it 6 months before I switched from ISDN to DSL. Original box, cables and manual. Bob From florin at iucha.net Wed May 16 17:13:31 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] External Zip100 drive and computer badges In-Reply-To: <20010516215438.52976.qmail@web11107.mail.yahoo.com>; from pc451@yahoo.com on Wed, May 16, 2001 at 02:54:38PM -0700 References: <20010516152017.B28025@beaver.iucha.org> <20010516215438.52976.qmail@web11107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010516171331.A10340@beaver.iucha.org> On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 02:54:38PM -0700, Peter Clark wrote: > > 1. Why haven't you tried with a parallel cable? > > 2. serial ? > I had thought about that, but wasn't sure about the transfer rates. > Correct me if I'm wrong, but 300+ MB of files would take a while, > yes/no? (I'm assuming 115k, yes?) Well, I was thinking for you to do this at night... Just leave it and goto :sleep :) And what makes you think zip over parallel will be faster than the direct connection over parallel? > > > Another possibility is a pcmcia network card. I am sure lots of > > people at > > the install-fest will have one to lend for few minutes. > That's a good idea, which Zibby mentioned. He also has a USB/SCSI > adapter, too, for the Zip drive. > > > > Want a snazzy Tux button for your new computer? Respond off-list. > > > > I would like the one with "Linux Inside". > > Noted. Thanks. -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From andy at theasis.com Wed May 16 12:39:05 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] External Zip100 drive and computer badges In-Reply-To: <20010516200401.61553.qmail@web11104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > This is for anyone planning on attending the installfest next month. > I have a dinky little laptop that I want to replace; building my new > system will hopefully commence before the 16th of June. However, I have > several hundred mb of files (text, mps, etc.) that I want to import > from my laptop to my new system. Thus, the question: does anyone have a The fast way to do this is to get a 3.5" to 2.5" adapter, rip the HD out of the laptop, and install it temporarily in the new system. > :Peter Andy From m_nassar at yahoo.com Wed May 16 17:46:13 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] External Zip100 drive and computer In-Reply-To: <200105162035.f4GKZ6K26063@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010516224613.53411.qmail@web10107.mail.yahoo.com> i can get my hands on a USB one if you have a USB port on your laptop... also i have an internal IDE, if you have a backpack cdrom we can rig something up to work... and yeah i think i would like one of those badges part #01806... we can make the trade at the next installfest... -munir > Message: 15 > Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 13:04:01 -0700 (PDT) > From: Peter Clark > To: Twin Cities Lug > Subject: [TCLUG] External Zip100 drive and computer > badges > Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > This is for anyone planning on attending the > installfest next month. > I have a dinky little laptop that I want to replace; > building my new > system will hopefully commence before the 16th of > June. However, I have > several hundred mb of files (text, mps, etc.) that I > want to import > from my laptop to my new system. Thus, the question: > does anyone have a > zip100 PARALLEL (not SCSI) external drive that they > would be willing to > bring to the installfest? I'll supply the disks, and > I will only need > it for however long it takes to copy all the files > onto the disks and > onto my new system (it will have an internal drive). > Also (and this is just for fun), I will be > ordering a computer badge > from LinuxMall. Since I can order a total of four > without paying > additional shipping & handling, I thought I would > ask if anyone would > like to place an order. See > http://linuxmall.com/shop/?search=badge&SID=d4dae8d52159f4636382287cf088d685 > for your options. I'll pay s&h, and you just pay me > a dollar or give me > something of equal value (caffinated beverages ok) > at the installfest. > Want a snazzy Tux button for your new computer? > Respond off-list. > :Peter > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great > prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From fertch at mninter.net Wed May 16 18:42:12 2001 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] External Zip100 drive and computer badges References: <20010516200401.61553.qmail@web11104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B031054.36B5F60D@mninter.net> I've got an external parallel zip drive which I will bring provided I'm able to make the next install fest. When exactly is it? June I'm assuming? Hopefully by then, the next release of Slackware will be out of beta, or on a very stable beta release. Linux badges? Already bought a ton of them. 15 to be exact from Copyleft. Shawn Peter Clark wrote: > > This is for anyone planning on attending the installfest next month. > I have a dinky little laptop that I want to replace; building my new > system will hopefully commence before the 16th of June. However, I have > several hundred mb of files (text, mps, etc.) that I want to import > from my laptop to my new system. Thus, the question: does anyone have a > zip100 PARALLEL (not SCSI) external drive that they would be willing to > bring to the installfest? I'll supply the disks, and I will only need > it for however long it takes to copy all the files onto the disks and > onto my new system (it will have an internal drive). > Also (and this is just for fun), I will be ordering a computer badge > from LinuxMall. Since I can order a total of four without paying > additional shipping & handling, I thought I would ask if anyone would > like to place an order. See > http://linuxmall.com/shop/?search=badge&SID=d4dae8d52159f4636382287cf088d685 > for your options. I'll pay s&h, and you just pay me a dollar or give me > something of equal value (caffinated beverages ok) at the installfest. > Want a snazzy Tux button for your new computer? Respond off-list. > :Peter From tanner at real-time.com Wed May 16 19:05:47 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] evolution and filters Message-ID: <20010516190547.I26930@real-time.com> Anyone using evolution? I just set it up and configured a bunch of filters, but it seems like they are not automatically applied. I normally have to highlight all my message and right-click and select Apply Filters. Did I mess something up or do filters have to be manually applied. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From sraun at fireopal.org Wed May 16 20:50:13 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More on Apache & Virtual Hosting Message-ID: <20010516205013.A28754@iaxs.net> For those of you who have NameVirtualHost working - what version of Apache are you running? One of the things to come out of my query to debian-users is that the new virtual hosting rules were implemented at about version 1.3.14, and I'm running 1.3.9. -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed May 16 21:22:05 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] External Zip100 drive and computer badges In-Reply-To: <20010516200401.61553.qmail@web11104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 May 2001, Peter Clark wrote: > Thus, the question: does anyone have a > zip100 PARALLEL (not SCSI) external drive that they would be willing to > bring to the installfest? I'll supply the disks, and I will only need > it for however long it takes to copy all the files onto the disks and > onto my new system (it will have an internal drive). I do, if you still need the use of it. Phil M -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From sraun at fireopal.org Wed May 16 21:38:23 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! Debian Upgrade Message-ID: <20010516213823.A28991@iaxs.net> Could someone give me a pointer to 'upgrade debian from potato to woody'? It looks like I need to go to at least the version of apache in testing to get virtual hosting to work. And the hint I found at www.debian.org/releases/testing was NOT useful! -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From jack at jacku.com Wed May 16 21:54:38 2001 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] External Zip100 drive and computer badges In-Reply-To: <20010516200401.61553.qmail@web11104.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010516200401.61553.qmail@web11104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01051621543801.01249@geezer> It seems like some others have responded as well. I've got one and I'll bring it along just in case none of the others show. :-) Jack On Wednesday 16 May 2001 15:04, you wrote: > This is for anyone planning on attending the installfest next month. > I have a dinky little laptop that I want to replace; building my new > system will hopefully commence before the 16th of June. However, I have > several hundred mb of files (text, mps, etc.) that I want to import > from my laptop to my new system. Thus, the question: does anyone have a > zip100 PARALLEL (not SCSI) external drive that they would be willing to > bring to the installfest? I'll supply the disks, and I will only need > it for however long it takes to copy all the files onto the disks and > onto my new system (it will have an internal drive). > Also (and this is just for fun), I will be ordering a computer badge > from LinuxMall. Since I can order a total of four without paying > additional shipping & handling, I thought I would ask if anyone would > like to place an order. See > http://linuxmall.com/shop/?search=badge&SID=d4dae8d52159f4636382287cf088d68 >5 for your options. I'll pay s&h, and you just pay me a dollar or give me > something of equal value (caffinated beverages ok) at the installfest. Want > a snazzy Tux button for your new computer? Respond off-list. > > :Peter > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed May 16 21:58:55 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! Debian Upgrade In-Reply-To: <20010516213823.A28991@iaxs.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 May 2001, Scott Raun wrote: > Could someone give me a pointer to 'upgrade debian from potato to > woody'? It looks like I need to go to at least the version of apache > in testing to get virtual hosting to work. > > And the hint I found at www.debian.org/releases/testing was NOT > useful! Here's what I'd do: rename /etc/apt/sources.list to /etc/apt/source.list.potato make a new one that contains 'deb ftp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian testing main contrib non-free' apt-get update //I don't know if you need to, but it doesn't hurt apt-get upgrade Does that help, or did you know it already? -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From alborchers at steinerpoint.com Wed May 16 21:34:33 2001 From: alborchers at steinerpoint.com (Al Borchers) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Why does this work References: <200105162035.f4GKZ6K26063@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B0338B9.DADB7C0A@steinerpoint.com> On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 01:30:03PM -0500, Timothy Wilson wrote: > wilsont@galileo:~/tmp$ cat file1 >> cat file2 >> cat file3 > newfile > wilsont@galileo:~/tmp$ cat newfile > A > B > C > wilsont@galileo:~/tmp$ > > This is exactly what I want, but the redirection on the command line doesn't > make sense to me. In fact, the order seems exactly opposite from what it > seems like it should be. The shell treats this as equivalent to cat file1 file2 file3 > newfile because you can have output redirection anywhere in the command line and the last redirection wins. So, for example, cat file1 >> cat file2 is the same as cat file1 file2 >> cat except you put the redirection in the middle of the command line rather than at the end where it usually goes. In your example you have three output redirections, two to append to a file named "cat", and the last one to write to "newfile"--that last one wins, so you could just as well drop the first two. That's why the file "cat" gets nothing. Your example would make anyone who know anything about the shell cringe-- you redirect to a FILE not another command. You were probably thinking of pipes that send the output to another command. Read a good book on the shell and this will all get cleared up. -- Al From sraun at fireopal.org Wed May 16 22:30:47 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! Debian Upgrade In-Reply-To: ; from mend0070@tc.umn.edu on Wed, May 16, 2001 at 09:58:55PM -0500 References: <20010516213823.A28991@iaxs.net> Message-ID: <20010516223047.B29128@iaxs.net> On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 09:58:55PM -0500, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On Wed, 16 May 2001, Scott Raun wrote: > > > Could someone give me a pointer to 'upgrade debian from potato to > > woody'? It looks like I need to go to at least the version of apache > > in testing to get virtual hosting to work. > > > > And the hint I found at www.debian.org/releases/testing was NOT > > useful! > > Here's what I'd do: > > rename /etc/apt/sources.list to /etc/apt/source.list.potato > > make a new one that contains > > 'deb ftp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian testing main contrib non-free' This part I already had. For some reason dselect isn't finding the apache 1.3.19 that's supposed to be in testing. And this is after I did an update! > apt-get update //I don't know if you need to, but it doesn't hurt > > apt-get upgrade > > Does that help, or did you know it already? apt-get! THANK YOU! I couldn't remember the name of the upgrading program, and dpkg and dselect - and their man pages and their command line help, and apropos, were all being less than useful. -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From esper at sherohman.org Wed May 16 22:33:01 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! Debian Upgrade In-Reply-To: <20010516213823.A28991@iaxs.net>; from sraun@fireopal.org on Wed, May 16, 2001 at 09:38:23PM -0500 References: <20010516213823.A28991@iaxs.net> Message-ID: <20010516223301.A6034@sherohman.org> On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 09:38:23PM -0500, Scott Raun wrote: > Could someone give me a pointer to 'upgrade debian from potato to > woody'? It looks like I need to go to at least the version of apache > in testing to get virtual hosting to work. I don't think that should be necessary... It works for me on a stock potato (dpkg -s says "Version: 1.3.9-13.2") apache. OTOH, I can't tell you why it doesn't work for you, so that doesn't help much. Anyhow, you don't need to go whole hog just to get apache. Edit /etc/apt/sources.list and change "stable" (or "potato") to "testing" on all non-commented lines. Then `apt-get update ; apt-get install apache`. apt will detect any dependencies that also need to be upgraded and ask you to confirm that you want to upgrade them also. Once the new apache is installed, edit sources.list again and change "testing" back to "stable", then do another `apt-get update` (or else you'll forget to do it the next time you use apt). You will then have a potato system with woody's apache. If you actually want to convert entirely to woody, point sources.list at testing as above, then `apt-get update ; apt-get upgrade ; apt-get dist-upgrade`. Technically, you should be able to got straight to the dist-upgrade, but I like to do it in two stages; "upgrade" handles simple updates (those which don't require any new packages to be added or removed), then "dist-upgrade" finishes off the rest. -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.1: GCS d? s+: a- C++ UL++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w---$ O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv b+ DI++++ D G e* h+ r y+ From alborchers at steinerpoint.com Wed May 16 22:15:41 2001 From: alborchers at steinerpoint.com (Al Borchers) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSH Programs References: <200105161308.f4GD8AK12014@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B03425D.ABC53788@steinerpoint.com> > Scott Raun writes: > OK - just went and looked. There's CRT and SecureCRT - the former is > about $35, the latter is the one that includes SSH and is about > $99. For us command line types--I just found out that Cygwin now has Open SSH as part of the distribution. Hurray! I used to use teraterm, but I always missed scp and found using zmodem less than ideal for copying files. Open SSH does X and port forwarding; I've never tried this with Cygwin ssh, though. Now I just need to take the time to really get Cygwin configured--anyone know how to set up /etc/hosts on Cygwin? It does not seem to read it. Do I need to use some Windows mechanism to map hostnames to IP addresses? I'll have to read the docs... -- Al From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Wed May 16 22:52:53 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSH Programs In-Reply-To: <3B03425D.ABC53788@steinerpoint.com> References: <200105161308.f4GD8AK12014@sprite.real-time.com> <3B03425D.ABC53788@steinerpoint.com> Message-ID: <20010516225253.74502e04.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Al Borchers wrote: > > Now I just need to take the time to really get Cygwin configured--anyone > know how to set up /etc/hosts on Cygwin? It does not seem to read it. > Do I need to use some Windows mechanism to map hostnames to IP > addresses? I'll have to read the docs... Try C:\Windows\hosts or C:\Windows\hosts.txt, or a similarly named file somewhere within the C:\Windows hierarchy. The Windows TCP stack is descended from BSD, if I remember right, so a lot of stuff is laying around in there somewhere (OS/2 went so far as to reproduce Unix man pages in their help system, but I digress..) -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ If you're not the / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ solution, you're the \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) precipitate. [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From jethro at freakzilla.com Wed May 16 22:53:44 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSH Programs In-Reply-To: <3B03425D.ABC53788@steinerpoint.com> Message-ID: Hi, On Wed, 16 May 2001, Al Borchers wrote: > Open SSH does X and port forwarding; I've never tried this with Cygwin ssh, > though. Works just like any ol' OpenSSH (ssh -X). Of course you need an X server on Windows. Cygwin _does_ have xfree (it's a seperate downl;oad) but it's slower than hell and doesn't seem to work right on WinME. > Now I just need to take the time to really get Cygwin configured--anyone > know how to set up /etc/hosts on Cygwin? It does not seem to read it. I think you need to update Windows' HOSTS.TXT or whatever the hell it is today. > Do I need to use some Windows mechanism to map hostnames to IP addresses? Oh, yeah. Search for HOSTS.*, I forgot what it is. -Yaron -- From ben at nerp.net Wed May 16 22:56:15 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSH Programs In-Reply-To: <3B03425D.ABC53788@steinerpoint.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- the only windows SSH client worth talking about is PuTTY.. it's awsome.. and free! Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Wed, 16 May 2001, Al Borchers wrote: > > Scott Raun writes: > > OK - just went and looked. There's CRT and SecureCRT - the former is > > about $35, the latter is the one that includes SSH and is about > > $99. > > For us command line types--I just found out that Cygwin now has Open SSH > as part of the distribution. Hurray! I used to use teraterm, but I always > missed scp and found using zmodem less than ideal for copying files. > > Open SSH does X and port forwarding; I've never tried this with Cygwin ssh, > though. > > Now I just need to take the time to really get Cygwin configured--anyone > know how to set up /etc/hosts on Cygwin? It does not seem to read it. > Do I need to use some Windows mechanism to map hostnames to IP addresses? > I'll have to read the docs... > > -- Al > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOwNL4MtpDhsSpvgtAQG5iAP9Hp/uNeCfpHPHmKHvIBjaV6r2oCwKnYmf MyRyVAWVHFMfzZ2jI3ZdLUjQHri2cRvW943z2aAuNoZo9SNYeAeUNpurXfjONeLM zG4PcNCqDdGjtxgWNxZ7B29GrM9b/xH2AYoshKiJCjBFE+x8S+wbCnXNPNSIW0VZ jh7Z40Jfs+M= =+L4g -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jethro at freakzilla.com Wed May 16 23:01:02 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSH Programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, On Wed, 16 May 2001, Ben Kochie wrote: > the only windows SSH client worth talking about is PuTTY.. it's awsome.. > and free! I find running OpenSSH in an XTerm (well, aterm) superiour to using PuTTY. For one thing cut'n'pasting is better, and PuTTY has this annoying habbit of NEVER doing the font size right. And yes, I'm doing this under Windows. The only way I can STAND Windows is when there's looots of xterms, one of which is running Pine ot access the damn exchange server ("We only support Outlook" my ass). -Yaron -- From ben at nerp.net Wed May 16 23:05:20 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSH Programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- what's wrong with the gpm style cut/paste in putty? I really enjoy putty because it's only 250k to download, and i've never had any font problems with it Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Wed, 16 May 2001, Yaron wrote: > Hi, > > On Wed, 16 May 2001, Ben Kochie wrote: > > > the only windows SSH client worth talking about is PuTTY.. it's awsome.. > > and free! > > I find running OpenSSH in an XTerm (well, aterm) superiour to using PuTTY. > For one thing cut'n'pasting is better, and PuTTY has this annoying habbit > of NEVER doing the font size right. And yes, I'm doing this under Windows. > The only way I can STAND Windows is when there's looots of xterms, one of > which is running Pine ot access the damn exchange server ("We only support > Outlook" my ass). > > -Yaron > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOwNOActpDhsSpvgtAQFxpAP+KjDKB8gVJEooiUoBdQlHSgxRFER+SNMs gdEvwhgqxizn/uhcAAFAslPcSXEpQ/NwKsdoOS2ZxOGQZRveMaBX7LKp6DhVVRGS AqQc3x7Md4D3apRj2cH+tILBQGgxmArp9maW38Od5jfQGrTvYVaq8VMQusqhk5fz piGaMXWrJ8c= =05yh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jethro at freakzilla.com Thu May 17 00:34:35 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSH Programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, On Wed, 16 May 2001, Ben Kochie wrote: > what's wrong with the gpm style cut/paste in putty? Paste is right-button instead of middle-button. > I really enjoy putty because it's only 250k to download, and i've never > had any font problems with it It is a useful thing to take on a floppy/CD/whatever when you don't know what you'll find. I still prefer xterms. -Yaron -- From brian at ghostreactor.com Thu May 17 02:40:01 2001 From: brian at ghostreactor.com (Brian Riesgraf) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSH Programs References: Message-ID: <001501c0dea4$947d0d00$6401a8c0@mn.rr.com> My only grip with putty and SecureCRT is that they are not ansi compatable (for us BitchX whores). Eterm w/ an ansi font is the best terminal experience around. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Kochie" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 11:05 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] SSH Programs > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > what's wrong with the gpm style cut/paste in putty? > > I really enjoy putty because it's only 250k to download, and i've never > had any font problems with it > > Thank You, > Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) > > "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." > > On Wed, 16 May 2001, Yaron wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > On Wed, 16 May 2001, Ben Kochie wrote: > > > > > the only windows SSH client worth talking about is PuTTY.. it's awsome.. > > > and free! > > > > I find running OpenSSH in an XTerm (well, aterm) superiour to using PuTTY. > > For one thing cut'n'pasting is better, and PuTTY has this annoying habbit > > of NEVER doing the font size right. And yes, I'm doing this under Windows. > > The only way I can STAND Windows is when there's looots of xterms, one of > > which is running Pine ot access the damn exchange server ("We only support > > Outlook" my ass). > > > > -Yaron > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: 2.6.3ia > Charset: noconv > > iQCVAwUBOwNOActpDhsSpvgtAQFxpAP+KjDKB8gVJEooiUoBdQlHSgxRFER+SNMs > gdEvwhgqxizn/uhcAAFAslPcSXEpQ/NwKsdoOS2ZxOGQZRveMaBX7LKp6DhVVRGS > AqQc3x7Md4D3apRj2cH+tILBQGgxmArp9maW38Od5jfQGrTvYVaq8VMQusqhk5fz > piGaMXWrJ8c= > =05yh > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Thu May 17 06:30:11 2001 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSH Programs References: <200105161308.f4GD8AK12014@sprite.real-time.com> <3B03425D.ABC53788@steinerpoint.com> Message-ID: <3B03B642.6F168CD9@fandre.com> Al Borchers wrote: > > I used to use teraterm, but I always > missed scp and found using zmodem less than ideal for copying files. > Have you tried pscp? http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/download.html I use it whenever I need to copy files from my winblows box. From administrator at ltiflex.com Thu May 17 08:38:22 2001 From: administrator at ltiflex.com (Andy Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSH Programs References: <200105161308.f4GD8AK12014@sprite.real-time.com> <3B03425D.ABC53788@steinerpoint.com> <3B03B642.6F168CD9@fandre.com> Message-ID: <3B03D44E.D7B6A4EA@ltiflex.com> The only limitation of putty that I have issues with is lack of port forwarding, but I don't use it that often, and there isn't much you need if for under windows anyway. Deals with BitchX fine for me. If you're running Windows 9x (95, 98, Me) the hosts file is c:\windows\hosts. You may have to create it. c:\windows\hosts.sam should be a sample file. You do have to remove the extention for it to work. Windows NT and 2000 keep the hosts file at c:\winnt\system32\drivers\etc\hosts. As above, there will be a hosts.sam file in that directory. -- Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH) 763-428-9119 (EX) 132 21801 Industrial Blvd | (FX) 763-428-9126 Rogers, MN 55374 | (PCS) 612-306-6055 From natecars at real-time.com Thu May 17 09:25:38 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More on Apache & Virtual Hosting In-Reply-To: <20010516205013.A28754@iaxs.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 May 2001, Scott Raun wrote: > For those of you who have NameVirtualHost working - what version of > Apache are you running? > > One of the things to come out of my query to debian-users is that the > new virtual hosting rules were implemented at about version 1.3.14, > and I'm running 1.3.9. I've run it since early 1.3.. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From dave at droyer.org Thu May 17 09:05:46 2001 From: dave at droyer.org (David Royer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] evolution and filters Message-ID: Bob, What version of Evolution are you using? I am using the latest snapshot availible for debian (0.10+cvs.2001.04.19.17.45) and filters work fine...and actually they have worked for several months. What type of filters are you using? I am mostly using "Move to Folder" filters to put things, like the TCLUG list in their own folder. Dave Royer On 16 May 2001 19:05:47 -0500, Bob Tanner wrote: > Anyone using evolution? > > I just set it up and configured a bunch of filters, but it seems like > they are not automatically applied. > > I normally have to highlight all my message and right-click and select > Apply Filters. > > Did I mess something up or do filters have to be manually applied. From clay at fandre.com Thu May 17 10:12:09 2001 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No more S***! Message-ID: <3B03EA49.32A6B5E@fandre.com> Any opinions on this? http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-05-15-007-20-NW-CY-KN From dd-b at dd-b.net Thu May 17 10:16:01 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More on Apache & Virtual Hosting In-Reply-To: <20010516205013.A28754@iaxs.net> References: <20010516205013.A28754@iaxs.net> Message-ID: Scott Raun writes: > For those of you who have NameVirtualHost working - what version of > Apache are you running? > > One of the things to come out of my query to debian-users is that the > new virtual hosting rules were implemented at about version 1.3.14, > and I'm running 1.3.9. I'm running 1.3.14; but I didn't have any big changeover problems when I went up to that, either. -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Thu May 17 10:24:09 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No more S***! In-Reply-To: <3B03EA49.32A6B5E@fandre.com>; from clay@fandre.com on Thu, May 17, 2001 at 10:12:09AM -0500 References: <3B03EA49.32A6B5E@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20010517102409.D7149@ringworld.org> * Clay Fandre [010517 10:18]: > http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-05-15-007-20-NW-CY-KN Its a good thing. Will force driver developers to keep a common api between drivers. :) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010517/15a8607d/attachment.pgp From kent at structural-wood.com Thu May 17 10:32:19 2001 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No more S***! References: <3B03EA49.32A6B5E@fandre.com> Message-ID: <3B03EF03.AC2448AC@structural-wood.com> Clay Fandre wrote: > > Any opinions on this? > In terms of whether Linus is right or not, I don't have any doubts that he is. I can't believe they've been handing out blocks of major device numbers to individual vendors of disc controllers. It appears that Linus is proposing consolidating all devices of a kind under a single major and allocating minors for each controller. It is not readily apparent how he proposes to allocate minor numbers (but that is a minor issue...). In terms of Linus interpersonal relationship style, I don't know what I think. This is typical of Linus at his extreme moments (look back sometime last year to when he told everybody their code sucked and everyone was going to have to start over - I think it had to do with context switching - I do remember that starting over resulted in a much better solution). At any rate, there is no denying that Linus is one of the most successfull software development managers of all time. Maybe this is the style programmers need to be productive? From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Thu May 17 10:44:19 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No more S***! In-Reply-To: <3B03EF03.AC2448AC@structural-wood.com>; from kent@structural-wood.com on Thu, May 17, 2001 at 10:32:19AM -0500 References: <3B03EA49.32A6B5E@fandre.com> <3B03EF03.AC2448AC@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <20010517104419.E7149@ringworld.org> * Kent Schumacher [010517 10:35]: > It appears that Linus is proposing consolidating all devices of a kind under a single > major and allocating minors for each controller. It is not readily apparent how he A register function that will allocate minors to the driver itself. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010517/a3e62fa1/attachment.pgp From krwc2 at visi.com Thu May 17 09:54:25 2001 From: krwc2 at visi.com (John Goerg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] cdrom eject problem Message-ID: <01051710030400.00769@localhost.localdomain> Newbie John here with my first question. Been lurking and learning for some time now. When logged in as root, I can mount, read, unmount, and eject the cdrom OK. But when as a user all is well until I try to eject the cd. The mount command shows the cdrom is unmounted but it won't eject. Been messing with fstab to get my ZIP drive working, (it works fine now) thought maybe I screwed something up in there. fstab below. /dev/hda1 /mnt/DOS_hda1 vfat user,exec,conv=binary 0 0 /dev/hdb1 / ext2 defaults 1 1 /dev/hdb5 swap swap defaults 0 0 /mnt/floppy /mnt/floppy supermount fs=vfat,dev=/dev/fd0 0 0 none /proc proc defaults 0 0 none /dev/pts devpts mode=0620 0 0 /dev/hdd4 /mnt/zip vfat noauto,rw,user,nosuid,sync,mode=0777 0 0 /dev/hdc /mnt/cdrom iso9660 user,exec,dev,suid,ro 0 0 Mandrake 7.0 2.2.14 kernel This list is an awesome resource. It has been invaluable to me for setting up, using, and learning Linux. I also hope it's not categorized by user level. Thank You, John Goerg From jpschewe at mtu.net Thu May 17 11:02:52 2001 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSH Programs In-Reply-To: Ben Kochie's message of "Wed, 16 May 2001 23:05:20 -0500 (CDT)" References: Message-ID: Ben Kochie writes: > what's wrong with the gpm style cut/paste in putty? How do you get stuff to/from the windows clipboard with putty? -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From tanner at real-time.com Thu May 17 11:13:17 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No more S***! In-Reply-To: <3B03EA49.32A6B5E@fandre.com>; from clay@fandre.com on Thu, May 17, 2001 at 10:12:09AM -0500 References: <3B03EA49.32A6B5E@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20010517111317.D2918@real-time.com> Quoting Clay Fandre (clay@fandre.com): > Any opinions on this? > > http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-05-15-007-20-NW-CY-KN It's somewhat refreshing. Most of the software project I work[ed] on start out clean, expectations change, requirements change and of course these happen AFTER to have started to code, so your code changes. You end up with shit code. Of course clients come back and ask if you can add >foo< to the the . You pitch the re-write, you pitch the re-design, but they want to use the same shit. I agree with Linus, K.I.S.S. Keep it simple stupid. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From alborchers at steinerpoint.com Thu May 17 10:52:00 2001 From: alborchers at steinerpoint.com (Al Borchers) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: SSH Programs References: <200105171555.f4HFt8K19514@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B03F3A0.4C4D2F49@steinerpoint.com> Andy Zbikowski wrote: > Windows NT and 2000 keep the hosts file at > c:\winnt\system32\drivers\etc\hosts. Clay Fandre wrote: > Have you tried pscp? > http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/download.html I use it > whenever I need to copy files from my winblows box. Thanks all. Found the NT hosts file and I will check pscp. -- Al From administrator at ltiflex.com Thu May 17 11:18:52 2001 From: administrator at ltiflex.com (Andy Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] cdrom eject problem References: <01051710030400.00769@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3B03F9EC.35EC819@ltiflex.com> ls -l /dev/hdc 1> add users to the cdrom group and chown root:cdrom /dev/cdrom && chmod 660 /dev/cdrom. 2> chmod 666 /dev/cdrom - given it's a cdrom, 666 is an OK mode to give it. It's not ideal, but it'll do, and you don't have to deal with group security. -- Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH) 763-428-9119 (EX) 132 21801 Industrial Blvd | (FX) 763-428-9126 Rogers, MN 55374 | (PCS) 612-306-6055 From fertch at mninter.net Thu May 17 11:43:40 2001 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: SSH Programs References: <200105171555.f4HFt8K19514@sprite.real-time.com> <3B03F3A0.4C4D2F49@steinerpoint.com> Message-ID: <3B03FFBC.A88CDE9A@mninter.net> If I'm not mistaken, there's also an LMHOSTS file though I'm not certain of it's exact use. Shawn Al Borchers wrote: > > Andy Zbikowski wrote: > > Windows NT and 2000 keep the hosts file at > > c:\winnt\system32\drivers\etc\hosts. > > Clay Fandre wrote: > > Have you tried pscp? > > http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/download.html I use it > > whenever I need to copy files from my winblows box. > > Thanks all. Found the NT hosts file and I will check pscp. > > -- Al From jeffr at odeon.net Thu May 17 11:47:33 2001 From: jeffr at odeon.net (jeffr@odeon.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ark switches In-Reply-To: <3B03D44E.D7B6A4EA@ltiflex.com> Message-ID: Anybody have any experience with Ark 10/100 ethernet switches? They've got a 24 port model that pricewatch lists for about $300. Ark's website: www.arkpc.com Jeff From zibby at ringworld.org Thu May 17 11:51:49 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: SSH Programs In-Reply-To: <3B03FFBC.A88CDE9A@mninter.net> Message-ID: > If I'm not mistaken, there's also an LMHOSTS file though I'm not certain > of it's exact use. LMHOSTS is the Lan Manager Hosts file. In most cases it's not really useful, as Windows clients will do the master browser fight in absence of a wins server. The format is: 192.168.2.1 hostname #PRE The best use for it I've found is joining computers to a domain over a wan link. 192.168.1.4 dc01 #PRE #DOM:DOMAIN Otherwise, setup samba as your master browser/wins server. :) | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From colin at tyr.med.umn.edu Thu May 17 11:54:26 2001 From: colin at tyr.med.umn.edu (Colin Kilbane) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Yes! You can have the prestige of a SGI on your desk! In-Reply-To: <001501c0dea4$947d0d00$6401a8c0@mn.rr.com> Message-ID: Here is a chance to get your own SGI Indy. I have an extra Indy, all it needs is an OS put on it. The reason it doesn't have an OS on it yet is that my SGI cdrom bit the dust. Well I don't want to mess with it any more, my frat brothers are sick of the mess in our library, and I already have a nice one that I don't really use much. So here is the deal. 1 SGI indy (with cool indigo colored case> MIPS RISK 5000 processor at 150 mhz 3 gig hard disk (1 2 gig IBM and 1 1 gig seagate) 24 bit video card upgrade (video in and out!, ooooh aaaah!) 96 megs of memory ( I may have more. Let me dig around) 17 inch SGI trinitron monitor (very nice, I have a bunch of these, too bad they can't be used on pc's) Indy Cam! (nudge, nudge, say no more) Microphone (testies, testies, 1 2 3, huh huh huh) External magnito optical drive (680 meg disks now your stylin!) 7 magneto optical disks (resiliant suckers! Once I dropped one of these nearly two stories down a stairwell with no loss of data.) Keyboard and Mouse I priced out a similar machines with no monitor and no magneto optical, but a bit more hd at 480 to 700. I think a fair asking price would be 550, but other reasonable offers will be entertained. In addition I have my old celeron 333a system back from my brother, daddy bought him a new 900mhz. I don't have a 900 mhz machine. :( Celeron 333a ( may be overclockable never had the guts to try myself) Asus motherboard, (will have to find the serial ports though) Matrox g200 8 meg agp vodoo II ( two of em if my freind will sell his too) 96 megs of ram Soundblaster 16 ( I have a soundblaster Live for extra) Network card (a 3com isa) 14 inch monitor Mouse and keyboard Nice full tower case 12x cdrom (it is creative with a remote control) I would like 200 not counting the live and extra vodoo. Thanks Colin Kilbane From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Thu May 17 11:53:54 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: SSH Programs Message-ID: I think the 'LM' in the 'LMHOSTS' stands for 'LAN Manager'. If that is so, it is probably a place to put NetBIOS host info, but I do not remember the format/use/whatever (maybe a place DOS clients put off-segment WINS server info?). Using 'HOSTS' for TCP/IP host info is probably for the best (on win 9x/me/nt/2k). Anyone more informed of this trivia? >>> fertch@mninter.net 05/17/01 11:43AM >>> If I'm not mistaken, there's also an LMHOSTS file though I'm not certain of it's exact use. From jethro at yaron.org Thu May 17 12:57:24 2001 From: jethro at yaron.org (jethro@yaron.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Yes! You can have the prestige of a SGI on your desk! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <990122244.3b041104a97de@dragon> Hi, Quoting Colin Kilbane : > 17 inch SGI trinitron monitor (very nice, I have a bunch of these, too > bad they can't be used on pc's) They can, if you have the right cable and a video card that supports Sync-On- Green (like Matrox cards). See http://saturn.tlug.org/sunstuff/ffmonitor.html for more details. -Yaron -- From austad at marketwatch.com Thu May 17 13:17:03 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No more S***! Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807AA@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Isn't this all implemented in the devfs stuff in the 2.4 series of kernels?? > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Tanner [mailto:tanner@real-time.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 11:13 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] No more S***! > > > Quoting Clay Fandre (clay@fandre.com): > > Any opinions on this? > > > > > http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-05-15-007-20-NW-CY-KN > > It's somewhat refreshing. Most of the software project I > work[ed] on start out > clean, expectations change, requirements change and of course > these happen AFTER > to have started to code, so your code changes. > > You end up with shit code. > > Of course clients come back and ask if you can add >foo< to > the the . > You pitch the re-write, you pitch the re-design, but they > want to use the same > shit. > > I agree with Linus, K.I.S.S. Keep it simple stupid. > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From dd-b at dd-b.net Thu May 17 13:31:40 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No more S***! In-Reply-To: <3B03EA49.32A6B5E@fandre.com> References: <3B03EA49.32A6B5E@fandre.com> Message-ID: Clay Fandre writes: > Any opinions on this? > > http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-05-15-007-20-NW-CY-KN I'm wondering why the new solution can't be developed before freezing the old numbers, to minimize the disruption. Has Linus tried to get people to do that, and couldn't? If the new solution were in place, it would be a 'conversion' issue rather than a period of time during which new devices couldn't be supported -- much less disruptive. -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From clay at fandre.com Thu May 17 13:33:29 2001 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSH Programs References: Message-ID: <3B041979.B8787B3A@fandre.com> Jon Schewe wrote: > > Ben Kochie writes: > > > what's wrong with the gpm style cut/paste in putty? > > How do you get stuff to/from the windows clipboard with putty? You can configure it in the menu. By default the right mouse button paste, and just selecting text will put it into the clipboard. From colin at tyr.med.umn.edu Thu May 17 13:51:03 2001 From: colin at tyr.med.umn.edu (Colin Kilbane) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Yes! You can have the prestige of a SGI on your desk! In-Reply-To: <990122244.3b041104a97de@dragon> Message-ID: oooooh that just might do the trick... Thanks Colin From blayer at qwest.net Thu May 17 14:45:16 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No more S***! In-Reply-To: <3B03EA49.32A6B5E@fandre.com> References: <3B03EA49.32A6B5E@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20010517144516.18bc7465.blayer@qwest.net> On Thu, 17 May 2001 10:12:09 -0500 "Clay Fandre" wrote: > Any opinions on this? Yes. It's very troubling to see the 'man at the top' running off at the mouth like some lamer on IRC or Slashdot. I expected better from someone of rank, I'm sadly disappointed. I mean, I might have sounded off like that once in a while, but then again the world at large doesn't give a fsck what I'm up to... I'm just Joe User, if I act like an idiot I'm the only one who really loses. When I see the sort of exchange that is taking place at the highest levels, the issues that I have with the recent Linux kernels suddenly appear more grave than ever. I've had the fear recently that Linus & crew are losing control of their creation, and this kind of public tirade only deepens my fears for the future of Linux. I hope Linus apologized to Alan for that comment. -.bill.lamer.. err, layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From daniel_j_post at hotmail.com Thu May 17 15:04:54 2001 From: daniel_j_post at hotmail.com (Daniel J. Post) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backtracking & probably redundant, but.... Message-ID: Someone mentioned the rule about every program eventually reading mail: here's the quote from my mirror of the Jargon file http://220centeravesouth.org/Dan/Jargon/html/entry/Zawinski's-Law.html : Zawinski's Law "Every program attempts to expand until it can read mail. Those programs which cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can." Coined by Jamie Zawinski (who called it the "Law of Software Envelopment") to express his belief that all truly useful programs experience pressure to evolve into toolkits and application platforms (the mailer thing, he says, is just a side effect of that). It is commonly cited, though with widely varying degrees of accuracy. Just in case anyone still cared. Some incompetent Linux weenie known as daniel j post _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jesse_erdmann at securecomputing.com Thu May 17 15:11:55 2001 From: jesse_erdmann at securecomputing.com (Jesse Erdmann) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No more S***! References: <3B03EA49.32A6B5E@fandre.com> <20010517144516.18bc7465.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <3B04308B.C3840F0C@securecomputing.com> It seems to me that this is the way things _always_ have been with kernel development. (Not that I'm a kernel developer or hang out on the lists) For the most part these people have been working closely (though remotely) for years and have a running dialog for this sort of stuff. Didn't we (not we TCLUG, we the unwashed technically-inclined masses via Slashdot, etc.) have this conversation a year or two ago with regards to professionalism and comments in kernel source containing the word "fuck"? Besides... someone else was quoted with the beam o' light from Linus' backside comment. Bill Layer wrote: > It's very troubling to see the 'man at the top' running off at the mouth > like some lamer on IRC or Slashdot. I expected better from someone of > rank, I'm sadly disappointed. I mean, I might have sounded off like that > once in a while, but then again the world at large doesn't give a fsck > what I'm up to... I'm just Joe User, if I act like an idiot I'm the only > one who really loses. > > When I see the sort of exchange that is taking place at the highest > levels, the issues that I have with the recent Linux kernels suddenly > appear more grave than ever. I've had the fear recently that Linus & crew > are losing control of their creation, and this kind of public tirade only > deepens my fears for the future of Linux. I hope Linus apologized to Alan > for that comment. > -- Jesse Erdmann Engineer Secure Computing Corp. From jethro at yaron.org Thu May 17 15:19:40 2001 From: jethro at yaron.org (jethro@yaron.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backtracking & probably redundant, but.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <990130780.3b04325c2294f@dragon> Hi, Quoting "Daniel J. Post" : > Someone mentioned the rule about every program eventually reading mail: Did I ever mention Tribes 2 has a built-in mail client? Of course, it is restricted to Tribes Network mail, but still... Black & White also uses Email. It can connect to a POP serevr or Outlook's API and make villager names appear as names of people in your inbo. When you get mail from that 'person' the villager named after them in the game will inform you of it. So now games are enveloping too... -Yaron -- From brian at ghostreactor.com Thu May 17 10:26:11 2001 From: brian at ghostreactor.com (Brian Riesgraf) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No more S***! In-Reply-To: <3B04308B.C3840F0C@securecomputing.com> Message-ID: Why is everyone doing this _thing_ now? _Wazoo!_ =] Brian Riesgraf Ghost Reactor Industries www.ghostreactor.com On Thu, 17 May 2001, Jesse Erdmann wrote: > It seems to me that this is the way things _always_ have been with > kernel development. (Not that I'm a kernel developer or hang out on the > lists) For the most part these people have been working closely (though > remotely) for years and have a running dialog for this sort of stuff. > > Didn't we (not we TCLUG, we the unwashed technically-inclined masses via > Slashdot, etc.) have this conversation a year or two ago with regards to > professionalism and comments in kernel source containing the word > "fuck"? > > Besides... someone else was quoted with the beam o' light from Linus' > backside comment. > > Bill Layer wrote: > > > It's very troubling to see the 'man at the top' running off at the mouth > > like some lamer on IRC or Slashdot. I expected better from someone of > > rank, I'm sadly disappointed. I mean, I might have sounded off like that > > once in a while, but then again the world at large doesn't give a fsck > > what I'm up to... I'm just Joe User, if I act like an idiot I'm the only > > one who really loses. > > > > When I see the sort of exchange that is taking place at the highest > > levels, the issues that I have with the recent Linux kernels suddenly > > appear more grave than ever. I've had the fear recently that Linus & crew > > are losing control of their creation, and this kind of public tirade only > > deepens my fears for the future of Linux. I hope Linus apologized to Alan > > for that comment. > > > > -- > > Jesse Erdmann > Engineer > Secure Computing Corp. > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From foeclan at winternet.com Thu May 17 15:31:14 2001 From: foeclan at winternet.com (Michael Vieths) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Game order status? In-Reply-To: <990130780.3b04325c2294f@dragon> Message-ID: Speaking of Tribes 2, has anything happened with the Loki games order? -- Michael Vieths Foeclan@Winternet.Com On Thu, 17 May 2001 jethro@yaron.org wrote: > > Did I ever mention Tribes 2 has a built-in mail client? Of course, it is > restricted to Tribes Network mail, but still... > > -Yaron From jethro at yaron.org Thu May 17 15:41:46 2001 From: jethro at yaron.org (jethro@yaron.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Game order status? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <990132106.3b04378a16d34@dragon> Hi, Quoting Michael Vieths : > Speaking of Tribes 2, has anything happened with the Loki games order? I don't know. Andy? -Yaron -- From pc451 at yahoo.com Thu May 17 16:02:59 2001 From: pc451 at yahoo.com (Peter Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No more S***! In-Reply-To: <20010517144516.18bc7465.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <20010517210259.21619.qmail@web11101.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Layer wrote: > It's very troubling to see the 'man at the top' running off at the > mouth > like some lamer on IRC or Slashdot. I expected better from someone of > rank, I'm sadly disappointed. I mean, I might have sounded off like > that > once in a while, but then again the world at large doesn't give a > fsck > what I'm up to... I'm just Joe User, if I act like an idiot I'm the > only > one who really loses. Methinks you are seeing a storm brewing in a tea kettle. Or however that saying goes. As someone already pointed out, the kernal hackers have been at this for years, and are no doubt use to everyone's vagaries. Linus Torvalds, despite his cool Finnish accent (I think Finns are some of the coolest people on earth, having worked with a small sample of them in the past) and his gnarly coding skills, is human, not The Software God That Walks Amidst Mortals, as we tend to see him. I'm sure that this will all be forgotten in a short time, life will go on, Linux will get better, and Alan and Linus will remain friends. > When I see the sort of exchange that is taking place at the highest > levels, the issues that I have with the recent Linux kernels suddenly > appear more grave than ever. I've had the fear recently that Linus & > crew > are losing control of their creation, and this kind of public tirade > only > deepens my fears for the future of Linux. I hope Linus apologized to > Alan > for that comment. I won't deny that times are rough for Linux. After all, after almost a decade of quiet obscurity, it has burst onto the world scene. Suddenly, there are a lot more eyes looking very hard at this Linux "thing." Suddenly, there are a lot more expectations. New friends and enemies are putting the heat on. One company wants Feature X. Another wants Y. Gates, Balmer, & Co. want Z, that is, that the whole kernal team is simultaneously struck by busses. Despite all that, the future remains bright. I see no reason to think that this little tirade is endemic of deep-rooted problems amidst the kernal crew. This, too, shall pass. :Peter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Thu May 17 16:12:44 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ark switches In-Reply-To: ; from jeffr@odeon.net on Thu, May 17, 2001 at 11:47:33AM -0500 References: <3B03D44E.D7B6A4EA@ltiflex.com> Message-ID: <20010517161244.F7149@ringworld.org> * jeffr@odeon.net [010517 11:49]: > got a 24 port model that pricewatch lists for about $300. We usually grab the netgear switches for unmanaged solutions, and cisco 2900xl switches when we need a 'real' switch. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010517/552ba206/attachment.pgp From HOEFFNER at dcmir.med.umn.edu Thu May 17 16:30:18 2001 From: HOEFFNER at dcmir.med.umn.edu (HOEFFNER@dcmir.med.umn.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SYSLOG Message-ID: <010517163018.203018a6@dcmir.med.umn.edu> Hi This should be breeze for you hardware types. I'm wondering if this is of concern and how to fix the problem. I'm just finishing up an install of RH7.1 on a Dell Dimension somethingorother and am finding a *LOT* of lines in /var/log/messages that look like this: May 17 11:36:55 yggr kernel: usb-uhci.c: interrupt, status 3, frame# 1280 May 17 11:36:55 yggr kernel: usb-uhci.c: interrupt, status 3, frame# 1282 May 17 11:36:55 yggr kernel: usb-uhci.c: interrupt, status 3, frame# 1401 May 17 11:36:55 yggr kernel: usb-uhci.c: interrupt, status 3, frame# 1403 May 17 11:36:55 yggr kernel: usb-uhci.c: too many bad statuses May 17 11:50:00 yggr kernel: es1371: unloading May 17 11:50:00 yggr kernel: Uniform CD-ROM driver unloaded May 17 11:50:00 yggr kernel: hdc: ATAPI 48X CD-ROM drive, 128kB Cache, UDMA(33) /var/log/dmesg: usb.c: registered new driver usbdevfs usb.c: registered new driver hub usb-uhci.c: $Revision: 1.251 $ time 20:53:29 Apr 8 2001 usb-uhci.c: High bandwidth mode enabled PCI: Found IRQ 9 for device 00:07.2 PCI: The same IRQ used for device 00:10.0 usb-uhci.c: USB UHCI at I/O 0x1400, IRQ 9 usb-uhci.c: Detected 2 ports usb.c: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 1 hub.c: USB hub found hub.c: 2 ports detected hub.c: USB new device connect on bus1/2, assigned device number 2 usb.c: USB device 2 (vend/prod 0x3f0/0x107) is not claimed by any active driver. /proc/interrupts CPU0 0: 58912 XT-PIC timer 1: 713 XT-PIC keyboard 2: 0 XT-PIC cascade 8: 1 XT-PIC rtc 9: 16087 XT-PIC usb-uhci, es1371 <---??? 10: 6542 XT-PIC ide2 11: 12032 XT-PIC eth0 12: 21580 XT-PIC PS/2 Mouse 15: 3408 XT-PIC ide1 NMI: 0 ERR: 0 Eventually, the es1371 entry goes away. The way I see this, there is a conflict between the sound card and the USB port, and the USB eventually wins so the sound card gives up. Booting into winders98 (the original os), shows both of these devices on IRQ9, though they both claim no conflicts (Yeah, it's M$..., and when it boots into winders, the "boot sound" comes out a little choppy, so it would seem that something is wrong there). They are both automatically configured in winders. The Dell site really doesn't go into this too much, though I noticed a few errors in their description compared to what I've seen on the machine, so I'm not all that happy with what I read there either. Is this easily fixed? Not being much of a pc type, I'm really not sure how to go about it. Bios has none of this, just IRQ5 as reserved for legacy reasons, so it must've been set during the install. Many thanks Ed Hoeffner 1-271 BSBE 312 Church St. SE Mpls, MN 55455 hoeffner@dcmir.med.umn.edu 612-625-2115 612-625-2163 fax Ralph Spoilsport for Pres!! From administrator at ltiflex.com Thu May 17 16:48:04 2001 From: administrator at ltiflex.com (Andy Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SYSLOG References: <010517163018.203018a6@dcmir.med.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3B044714.93C5E6B6@ltiflex.com> Can you crack the case and shuffle the sound card somewhere else? Sometimes PCI stuff doesn't like to share. (the es1371 can be a real bugger.) You can also disable onboard stuff that you won't be using. (serial ports, printer ports, etc.) Some bios's let you assign a irq to a pci slot. You can also fiddle with the bios PNP settings. -- Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH) 763-428-9119 (EX) 132 21801 Industrial Blvd | (FX) 763-428-9126 Rogers, MN 55374 | (PCS) 612-306-6055 From administrator at ltiflex.com Thu May 17 16:49:43 2001 From: administrator at ltiflex.com (Andy Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ark switches References: <3B03D44E.D7B6A4EA@ltiflex.com> <20010517161244.F7149@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <3B044777.97592E94@ltiflex.com> > We usually grab the netgear switches for unmanaged solutions, and cisco > 2900xl switches when we need a 'real' switch. Ah yes, the netgear "render your roomie unconscience by using as a blunt object" switches. :) -- Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH) 763-428-9119 (EX) 132 21801 Industrial Blvd | (FX) 763-428-9126 Rogers, MN 55374 | (PCS) 612-306-6055 From florin at iucha.net Thu May 17 16:53:36 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SYSLOG In-Reply-To: <010517163018.203018a6@dcmir.med.umn.edu>; from HOEFFNER@dcmir.med.umn.edu on Thu, May 17, 2001 at 04:30:18PM -0500 References: <010517163018.203018a6@dcmir.med.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010517165336.A30881@beaver.iucha.org> On Thu, May 17, 2001 at 04:30:18PM -0500, HOEFFNER@dcmir.med.umn.edu wrote: > Hi > > This should be breeze for you hardware types. I'm wondering if this is of > concern and how to fix the problem. > > I'm just finishing up an install of RH7.1 on a Dell Dimension somethingorother > and am finding a *LOT* of lines in /var/log/messages that look like this: > > May 17 11:36:55 yggr kernel: usb-uhci.c: interrupt, status 3, frame# 1280 > May 17 11:36:55 yggr kernel: usb-uhci.c: interrupt, status 3, frame# 1282 > May 17 11:36:55 yggr kernel: usb-uhci.c: interrupt, status 3, frame# 1401 > May 17 11:36:55 yggr kernel: usb-uhci.c: interrupt, status 3, frame# 1403 > May 17 11:36:55 yggr kernel: usb-uhci.c: too many bad statuses > May 17 11:50:00 yggr kernel: es1371: unloading > May 17 11:50:00 yggr kernel: Uniform CD-ROM driver unloaded > May 17 11:50:00 yggr kernel: hdc: ATAPI 48X CD-ROM drive, 128kB Cache, UDMA(33) > > /var/log/dmesg: > > usb.c: registered new driver usbdevfs > usb.c: registered new driver hub > usb-uhci.c: $Revision: 1.251 $ time 20:53:29 Apr 8 2001 > usb-uhci.c: High bandwidth mode enabled > PCI: Found IRQ 9 for device 00:07.2 > PCI: The same IRQ used for device 00:10.0 > usb-uhci.c: USB UHCI at I/O 0x1400, IRQ 9 > usb-uhci.c: Detected 2 ports > usb.c: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 1 > hub.c: USB hub found > hub.c: 2 ports detected > hub.c: USB new device connect on bus1/2, assigned device number 2 > usb.c: USB device 2 (vend/prod 0x3f0/0x107) is not claimed by any active driver. > > > /proc/interrupts > > CPU0 > 0: 58912 XT-PIC timer > 1: 713 XT-PIC keyboard > 2: 0 XT-PIC cascade > 8: 1 XT-PIC rtc > 9: 16087 XT-PIC usb-uhci, es1371 <---??? > 10: 6542 XT-PIC ide2 > 11: 12032 XT-PIC eth0 > 12: 21580 XT-PIC PS/2 Mouse > 15: 3408 XT-PIC ide1 > NMI: 0 > ERR: 0 > > Eventually, the es1371 entry goes away. The way I see this, there is a conflict > between the sound card and the USB port, and the USB eventually wins so the > sound card gives up. Booting into winders98 (the original os), shows both of > these devices on IRQ9, though they both claim no conflicts (Yeah, it's M$..., > and when it boots into winders, the "boot sound" comes out a little choppy, so > it would seem that something is wrong there). They are both automatically > configured in winders. The Dell site really doesn't go into this too much, > though I noticed a few errors in their description compared to what I've seen > on the machine, so I'm not all that happy with what I read there either. There is no conflict. Most PCI cards play nicely with each other and share their interupts. Especially low-bandwidth ones like sound/usb/serial. What you see are two unrelated events. The kernel module loader saw that nobody used module es1731 and unloaded it. It is normal. For instance on my laptop, the video/network/sound/modem are all on IRQ 11, even though there are plenty of free IRQs. What is not normal is the bad status on the usb controller but that I cannot help you with. > Is this easily fixed? Not being much of a pc type, I'm really not sure how to > go about it. Bios has none of this, just IRQ5 as reserved for legacy reasons, > so it must've been set during the install. A new usb linux driver might fix it. Or play with the USB devices you have to see if one of them is causing it. florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From andy at theasis.com Thu May 17 12:15:58 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Game order status? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Speaking of Tribes 2, has anything happened with the Loki games order? No, because I've been travelling or otherwise swamped, and therefore never got back to the Loki salesperson-contact with further questions on what to do. We also never had anyone pony up with a suggestion of how to handle the finances, except for my offer to cover on the order of 10-15 games. We have well over that, and I've not decided yet whether I'm willing to front the cash. We now have a lot more, and at least 2 games that are at or near the apparent minimum of 10 copies. But first step is find out what we can likely buy (i.e., can we talk them into 18 copies of Tribes2, 10 copies of Simcity3000, and then lower numbers of other titles, despite their stated minimums), which means I gotta try to send a query to Loki. I'll try to do that tonite or tomorrow. Andy > > -- > Michael Vieths > Foeclan@Winternet.Com From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu May 17 18:00:51 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SYSLOG In-Reply-To: <010517163018.203018a6@dcmir.med.umn.edu> References: <010517163018.203018a6@dcmir.med.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010517180051.180b4271.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> HOEFFNER@dcmir.med.umn.edu wrote: > > > Is this easily fixed? Not being much of a pc type, I'm really not sure > how to go about it. Bios has none of this, just IRQ5 as reserved for > legacy reasons, so it must've been set during the install. One thing that I truly despise about brand-name PCs is that their BIOS configuration systems are pieces of junk. Of course, you might try looking for a new BIOS for that system.. I have no idea why IRQ5 would be reserved -- that's where my old SB16 sat for many years (SoundBlaster actually moved from IRQ7 to IRQ5 because parallel ports started using IRQ7). If you can disable the IRQ on your display adapter, that might be good (unless you're going to be running things that require it like OpenGL over DRI). Try disabling the USB, unless you need it. If you aren't using the serial ports, disable them, as you get two more interrupts there (IRQ3, IRQ4). In addition, you may need to compile your own kernel with some sort of IRQ sharing enabled. I think the kernel can share IRQs anyway, but I think there's some extra code laying around somewhere that can help it work better. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ If it walks out of your / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ refrigerator, LET IT GO!! \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From destef at destef.com Thu May 17 18:24:25 2001 From: destef at destef.com (Jason DeStefano) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No more S***! In-Reply-To: <3B03EA49.32A6B5E@fandre.com> Message-ID: <200105172323.f4HNNmT27338@ernie.destef.com> Considering Linus got us this far with Linux I trust him when he says enough is enough with this issue. He'll address it and it will be fixed and looking back we'll all thank him someday. At 10:12 AM 5/17/01 -0500, you wrote: >Any opinions on this? > >http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-05-15-007-20-NW-CY-KN >_______________________________________________ >tclug-list mailing list >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jethro at freakzilla.com Thu May 17 18:39:35 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bynari Insight Message-ID: Hi, Has anyone tried Insight Client from Bynari.net? It was mentioned on the list at one time, but not really much. Their website looks like a complete hack. -Yaron -- From thefishyone at hotmail.com Thu May 17 19:57:39 2001 From: thefishyone at hotmail.com (Matt Waters) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No more S***! Message-ID: >From: Clay Fandre >Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org >To: TCLUG >Subject: [TCLUG] No more S***! >Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 10:12:09 -0500 > >Any opinions on this? > >http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-05-15-007-20-NW-CY-KN >_______________________________________________ >tclug-list mailing list >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list Although I know precisely jack dick about how linux's disk drivers work, what Linus is saying does make sense. Although totally reworking and improving the disk driver system would be a pain in the ass for a little while, I think a better, simpler disk driver system would work out for the best in the long run. ---------- The Fishy One's Infinite Wisdom #15: "A man doesn't need a scarecrow if he's got penguins." New wisdom every week! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From thefishyone at hotmail.com Thu May 17 20:07:31 2001 From: thefishyone at hotmail.com (Matt Waters) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Yes! You can have the prestige of a SGI on your desk! Message-ID: You know, I certainly wouldn't mind having an SGI workstation on my desktop. Problem is, I don't have much cash on me right now, which might be just a tiny little issue =). Anyway, I have a job lined up for when I graduate, so I'd be able to pay you in monthly installments, if that's acceptable. ---------- The Fishy One's Infinite Wisdom #15: "A man doesn't need a scarecrow if he's got penguins." New wisdom every week! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From thefishyone at hotmail.com Thu May 17 20:54:24 2001 From: thefishyone at hotmail.com (Matt Waters) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Debate Message-ID: Me and a friend of mine are in the middle of a debate and were wondering if you guys could help settle it. When one of you guys put your SGI Indy up for sale, I told my friend about it, and we began arguing over the power of a risc processer. He argues that because of a risc's limited instruction set, a risc is slower than a comperable x86 because it requires more intructions to accomplish a task. I argue that risc's have more bang per computational cycle, because the instructions they use take up fewer clock cycles, and fewer instructions means the cpu can transmit data more quickly. Plus, the 64-bit bus allows the cpu to handle data more efficiently. (My friend claims that PIIs and up use 128-bit buses with 32-bit compatibility mode.) I admit, my hardware skills aren't nearly where they should be, so please don't ream me out too badly if I am suffering from severe rectal-cranial inversion. =) ---------- The Fishy One's Infinite Wisdom #15: "A man doesn't need a scarecrow if he's got penguins." New wisdom every week! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From sos at zjod.net Thu May 17 21:02:34 2001 From: sos at zjod.net (Steve Siegfried) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Debate In-Reply-To: from "Matt Waters" at May 17, 2001 08:54:24 PM Message-ID: <200105180202.VAA29847@zjod.net> This is a religious issue ;-). Take your favorite benchmark program, run it on both machines... buy the faster one. What? You say you have more than one favorite benchmark? Run 'em all and take the average, or weighted average, or ... Matt Waters wrote: > > Me and a friend of mine are in the middle of a debate and were > wondering if you guys could help settle it. > > When one of you guys put your SGI Indy up for sale, I told my friend > about it, and we began arguing over the power of a risc processer. He argues > that because of a risc's limited instruction set, a risc is slower than a > comperable x86 because it requires more intructions to accomplish a task. I > argue that risc's have more bang per computational cycle, because the > instructions they use take up fewer clock cycles, and fewer instructions > means the cpu can transmit data more quickly. Plus, the 64-bit bus allows > the cpu to handle data more efficiently. (My friend claims that PIIs and up > use 128-bit buses with 32-bit compatibility mode.) > > I admit, my hardware skills aren't nearly where they should be, so > please don't ream me out too badly if I am suffering from severe > rectal-cranial inversion. =) > > ---------- > The Fishy One's Infinite Wisdom #15: "A man doesn't need a scarecrow if he's > got penguins." > > New wisdom every week! > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Thu May 17 21:04:22 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ark switches In-Reply-To: <3B044777.97592E94@ltiflex.com>; from administrator@ltiflex.com on Thu, May 17, 2001 at 04:49:43PM -0500 References: <3B03D44E.D7B6A4EA@ltiflex.com> <20010517161244.F7149@ringworld.org> <3B044777.97592E94@ltiflex.com> Message-ID: <20010517210422.G7149@ringworld.org> * Andy Zbikowski [010517 16:53]: > Ah yes, the netgear "render your roomie unconscience by using as a blunt > object" switches. :) Heh, then again, they do manage.. they manange your rooomate :) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010517/6eb1b1f4/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Thu May 17 21:19:18 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RPM bases Linux with multiple-gcc? Message-ID: <20010517211918.H6160@real-time.com> In the pre-RPM days, I use to have several version of gcc on a box and use the -V version to select which gcc release I wanted to use. This does not seem possible with the gcc in rpm format. Am I missing something? How about you debian guys, can you do this with apt/.deb? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Thu May 17 21:43:07 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RPM bases Linux with multiple-gcc? In-Reply-To: <20010517211918.H6160@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Thu, May 17, 2001 at 09:19:18PM -0500 References: <20010517211918.H6160@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010517214307.A28763@ringworld.org> * Bob Tanner [010517 21:21]: > How about you debian guys, can you do this with apt/.deb? We just use gcc :) whatever the 'stable' version is... (none of this dev-release gcc crap :) ) but, if the package is configure based, changing it to use gcc-3.0 wouldn't be hard. :) If its not, depends on the makefile setup... but it would probally need some sort of file change in either ./debian/rules or the program's makefiles. Why so many versions of gcc? -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010517/fa9af439/attachment.pgp From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu May 17 22:02:21 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RPM bases Linux with multiple-gcc? In-Reply-To: <20010517211918.H6160@real-time.com> References: <20010517211918.H6160@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010517220221.1a416368.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Bob Tanner wrote: > > In the pre-RPM days, I use to have several version of gcc on a box and > use the -V version to select which gcc release I wanted to use. I don't know about versions, but I know different architectures can be specified. When I did some Palm programming for one of my classes, I had to download a version of gcc that could output the right binary (it was called gcc-m68k-coff or something). Anyway, the package I got included files that went in a directory in /usr/lib/gcc-lib. If you have multiple versions of gcc for i386, they'd probably appear in /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386--linux//. Actually, now that I look, I see that I have two versions of gcc on my system right now: gcc: /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/2.96/ kgcc: /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-glibc21-linux/egcs-2.91.66/ It defaults to gcc 2.96, but I can run 2.91.66 with the command `gcc -V egcs-2.91.66' I guess this is one of those ``it works for me, sorry'' answers.. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ If marriage is outlawed, / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ only outlaws will have \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) inlaws. [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Thu May 17 22:02:04 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Debate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 17 May 2001, Matt Waters wrote: > When one of you guys put your SGI Indy up for sale, I told my friend > about it, and we began arguing over the power of a risc processer. He argues > that because of a risc's limited instruction set, a risc is slower than a > comperable x86 because it requires more intructions to accomplish a task. I > argue that risc's have more bang per computational cycle, because the > instructions they use take up fewer clock cycles, and fewer instructions > means the cpu can transmit data more quickly. Um, the thing that both of you are leaving out is that we're talking about a programmable machine. The reason it's a religious war starter, as *I* understand it, is that it's really hard to compare apples to apples anyway. It depends largely on the task you want to do. So, you might be able to do the same thing equally efficiently, but the algorithm might need to be completely different for the two machines. Like a risc machine might win using a bubble sort, but a cisc machine might win using an insertion sort, and if you let each play to their strengths, they might tie. Another example might be that x86 processors won't move memory to memory without involving a register. Maybe a MIPS (or other risc chip) does allow this sometimes. So for some things that just *move* data, the risc processor kills, but slows down when you have to figure out how to make it process. The only thing I'd say about your statement is that saying that a risc proc. has more bang per clock cycle is incorrect as phrased. The principle is that you puposely have *less* bang per cycle, but you "make it up in volume." Doing a little looking at assembly code would be most instructive. If you write a little program in C, 'g++ -S ' will compile to a *.s file, which is assembly code. I think if you do the same and include the switch for the MIPS target, you will get some MIPS assy code. You still don't know how many cycles each instruction takes, but you'd get an idea of how different the paths are to get to the same point. > Plus, the 64-bit bus allows the cpu to handle data more efficiently. > (My friend claims that PIIs and up use 128-bit buses with 32-bit > compatibility mode.) Wait, are you talking about the data/address bus, or are you talking about the size of the registers? Better define "efficient use of data" better before you argue this one too far, I think. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From thekremer at mn.mediaone.net Thu May 17 22:14:23 2001 From: thekremer at mn.mediaone.net (Justin Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ark switches In-Reply-To: <20010517210422.G7149@ringworld.org> References: <3B03D44E.D7B6A4EA@ltiflex.com> <20010517161244.F7149@ringworld.org> <3B044777.97592E94@ltiflex.com> <20010517210422.G7149@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <200105180316.f4I3G6124811@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> um...rendering roomies unconscious...managing roomates...should i be afraid? - Kremer On 17 May 2001 21:04:22 -0500, Scott Dier wrote: > * Andy Zbikowski [010517 16:53]: > > Ah yes, the netgear "render your roomie unconscience by using as a blunt > > object" switches. :) > > Heh, then again, they do manage.. they manange your rooomate :) > > -- > Scott Dier > http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net > > So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu May 17 22:30:16 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Debate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010517223016.73851c5b.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Whenever you talk about processors that are different, there is a problem of comparing apples to oranges. Heck, if you look at the BogoMips (I know, not a great marker of speed) for a Pentium 166 versus a Pentium 166 MMX, the MMX chip will have a number twice that of the vanilla chip. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Never say, "Oops!" / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ Always say, "Ah, \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) interesting!" [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From colin at tyr.med.umn.edu Thu May 17 22:30:41 2001 From: colin at tyr.med.umn.edu (Colin Kilbane) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Debate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have never heard that a cisc chip was more efficent than a risc chip. It boils down to the most common operations that a processor executes. If you can do the same process with fewer instructions, this translates to fewer processor cycles per process so it is more efficent. Intel just decided to do the hotrod method. To overcome the inefficent nature of our cisc instruction set one can either soup up that chevy nova with a 435 hp engine Moterola with it's risc chips took the bmw approach. Lets redesign the whole car, or design a new one that is lighter, more aerodynamic so it needs a smaller more efficent engine. Thats why we have 1.7 ghz intels and 600mhz motorolas. Pardon the spelling, I'm a bit drunk. Colin From jasonj at innominatus.com Thu May 17 22:49:49 2001 From: jasonj at innominatus.com (Jason J) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More SGI Boxes... Message-ID: <3B049BDD.829E1AFF@innominatus.com> A friend of mine got 7 SGI boxes from somebody that didnt know what to do with them and my friend didnt know what to do with them either, so he gave them to me. They all appear to need a couple of parts. Most need hard drives, all need cdrom's and floppies. Here is a list of the machines. 3 Indigo's 1 Teal Indigo2 3 Purple Indigo2 Impact's (I dont know if they are R8000's or R10000's yet) No monitors Just a couple of SGI keyboards and mice (though they are just PS/2 so no biggie) No cdrom drives No floppy drives Just a couple have hard drives. All have memory though I dont know how much. No OS. Indigo2 Vertical stands I only want to keep one of the purple indigo2's. So I am willing to sell and/or trade the rest away. I would like to get the one I am keeping to full working condition. It needs an SGI cdrom and floppy. And I would really like to get a copy of the IRIX OS so I can install it fresh. I got a 13w3 to hd15 connector and was running one of the SGI boxes on my normal 21" monitor and it looked fine. I also got approx 5 HP fixed frequency monitors that have the 13W3 connector. I tried a couple of them on one of the SGI's and couldnt get it to work. I dont want to clutter up the list with a bunch of replies to this so if your interested in anything please mail me off list. From thekremer at mn.mediaone.net Thu May 17 22:52:10 2001 From: thekremer at mn.mediaone.net (Justin Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] evolution and filters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <990157930.8773.0.camel@kremer> Speaking of quirks in Evolution, I have used 0.9 and 0.10 and it seems that it is not possible to delete folders that you create I created a folder within my Inbox, and then decided i wanted it elsewhere...but i can't get rid of the original. The Evolution Help says to right-click and select delete, but there doesn't appear to be a right-click menu in the folder bar. Any Ideas? On 17 May 2001 09:05:46 -0500, David Royer wrote: > Bob, > > What version of Evolution are you using? I am using the latest snapshot > availible for debian (0.10+cvs.2001.04.19.17.45) and filters work > fine...and actually they have worked for several months. From thekremer at mn.mediaone.net Thu May 17 23:01:49 2001 From: thekremer at mn.mediaone.net (Justin Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] evolution and filters In-Reply-To: <990157930.8773.0.camel@kremer> References: <990157930.8773.0.camel@kremer> Message-ID: <990158509.8877.0.camel@kremer> ok...I'm on a roll that was a dumb question, and right after i asked it it finally dawned on me that in my home directory there is an evolution directory and what do ya know...it has all my mail folders in there as directories...so i just deleted the offender and Evolution didn't know that anything was wrong Still wondering if anyone else using Evolution is having the lack of right click menu problem that i am Maybe it's listed in the help, but not actually implemented yet? On 17 May 2001 22:52:10 -0500, Justin Kremer wrote: > Speaking of quirks in Evolution, I have used 0.9 and 0.10 and it seems > that it is not possible to delete folders that you create > I created a folder within my Inbox, and then decided i wanted it > elsewhere...but i can't get rid of the original. > The Evolution Help says to right-click and select delete, but there > doesn't appear to be a right-click menu in the folder bar. > Any Ideas? > On 17 May 2001 09:05:46 -0500, David Royer wrote: > > Bob, > > > > What version of Evolution are you using? I am using the latest > snapshot > > availible for debian (0.10+cvs.2001.04.19.17.45) and filters work > > fine...and actually they have worked for several months. > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jethro at freakzilla.com Thu May 17 23:36:47 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More SGI Boxes... In-Reply-To: <3B049BDD.829E1AFF@innominatus.com> Message-ID: Hi, On Thu, 17 May 2001, Jason J wrote: > Just a couple of SGI keyboards and mice (though they are just PS/2 so no > biggie) Are you sure about that? -Yaron -- From dcsherman at qwest.net Fri May 18 07:10:18 2001 From: dcsherman at qwest.net (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Debate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01051807101800.01318@numidea.thuria.org> According to the folks at Ars Technica (www.arstechnica.com), this debate is dead, because there is no such thing as a pure RISC or pure CISC chip any longer -- both technologies have converged, taken the best of each design philosophy, to the point where the differences are so slight that they are far outweighted by the similarities. Dave On Thursday 17 May 2001 20:54, thus spake Matt Waters: > Me and a friend of mine are in the middle of a debate and were > wondering if you guys could help settle it. > > When one of you guys put your SGI Indy up for sale, I told my friend > about it, and we began arguing over the power of a risc processer. He > argues that because of a risc's limited instruction set, a risc is > slower than a comperable x86 because it requires more intructions to > accomplish a task. I argue that risc's have more bang per computational > cycle, because the instructions they use take up fewer clock cycles, and > fewer instructions means the cpu can transmit data more quickly. Plus, > the 64-bit bus allows the cpu to handle data more efficiently. (My > friend claims that PIIs and up use 128-bit buses with 32-bit > compatibility mode.) > > I admit, my hardware skills aren't nearly where they should be, so > please don't ream me out too badly if I am suffering from severe > rectal-cranial inversion. =) > > ---------- > The Fishy One's Infinite Wisdom #15: "A man doesn't need a scarecrow if > he's got penguins." > > New wisdom every week! > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- "...[W]e preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God." (1 Cor 1:23-24) From jasonj at talkware.net Fri May 18 07:08:50 2001 From: jasonj at talkware.net (Jason Jorgensen) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More SGI Boxes... References: Message-ID: <3B0510D2.54BADDD2@talkware.net> Since I am using a Keytronic Lifetime and a Logitech 4 button scroll mouse in one of the purple Indigo2's I think they are just PS/2. And I am using one of the SGI keyboards in one my Pentium III servers.... http://www.obsolyte.com/sgi_indigo2/ Yaron wrote: > Hi, > > On Thu, 17 May 2001, Jason J wrote: > > > Just a couple of SGI keyboards and mice (though they are just PS/2 so no > > biggie) > > Are you sure about that? > > -Yaron > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lueyb at gridley.ACNS.Carleton.edu Fri May 18 08:27:46 2001 From: lueyb at gridley.ACNS.Carleton.edu (Ben Luey) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Opera 5 does align links (Man 8.0) Message-ID: Anyone else having problems with Opera displaying links on top of text in html pages and often rendering text on top of text? I've got Mandrake 8.0 with qt2-2.3 and the dynamic version of Opera 5 final. Thanks, Ben From dcsherman at qwest.net Fri May 18 10:23:01 2001 From: dcsherman at qwest.net (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Opera 5 does align links (Man 8.0) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01051810230102.06815@dedannshae.thuria.org> Yes, I run into that occasionally. Especially at linuxworld.com -- their site is terrible in Opera. But I figured it was because they were using css with absolute positioning or something. I haven't even looked at the source, though. Dave On Friday 18 May 2001 08:27, thus spake Ben Luey: > Anyone else having problems with Opera displaying links on top of text > in html pages and often rendering text on top of text? I've got > Mandrake 8.0 with qt2-2.3 and the dynamic version of Opera 5 final. > > Thanks, > > Ben > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- "Nihil tam munitum quod non expugnari pecuna possit." - Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 B.C. From jspinti at dart.dartdist.com Fri May 18 10:28:45 2001 From: jspinti at dart.dartdist.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Opera 5 does align links (Man 8.0) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I just downloaded the same version yesterday night. There is a check box in the preferences that allows you to change that. I'm at work, so can't tell you exactly where it is, but that should fix it. Thanks, James Spinti jspinti@dartdist.com 952-368-3278 x396 fax 952-368-3255 |-----Original Message----- |From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org |[mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Ben Luey |Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 10:14 AM |To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org |Subject: [TCLUG] Opera 5 does align links (Man 8.0) | | |Anyone else having problems with Opera displaying links on top of text in |html pages and often rendering text on top of text? I've got Mandrake 8.0 |with qt2-2.3 and the dynamic version of Opera 5 final. | |Thanks, | |Ben | |_______________________________________________ |tclug-list mailing list |tclug-list@mn-linux.org |https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list | From austad at marketwatch.com Fri May 18 10:34:07 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Opera 5 does align links (Man 8.0) Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807AC@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> I heard that you need the static version to make it work right with Mandrake 8.0. > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Luey [mailto:lueyb@gridley.ACNS.Carleton.edu] > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 8:28 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] Opera 5 does align links (Man 8.0) > > > Anyone else having problems with Opera displaying links on > top of text in > html pages and often rendering text on top of text? I've got > Mandrake 8.0 > with qt2-2.3 and the dynamic version of Opera 5 final. > > Thanks, > > Ben > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From ssinn at qwest.net Fri May 18 10:49:41 2001 From: ssinn at qwest.net (ssinn@qwest.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Opera 5 does align links (Man 8.0) References: Message-ID: <3B054494.B5F129DE@qwest.net> That is pretty typical of Opera. It did that with Red Hat, Slackware and SuSE for me. Does that in Windows too : ) I am not sure if it is the browser interpreting code poorly or the web designer write poor code. IIRC it has trouble rendering some *.jsp's It is still a better choice (for me) than Netscape, which has the bad habit of filling up my swap space. Ben Luey wrote: > Anyone else having problems with Opera displaying links on top of text in > html pages and often rendering text on top of text? I've got Mandrake 8.0 > with qt2-2.3 and the dynamic version of Opera 5 final. > > Thanks, > > Ben > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From colin at tyr.med.umn.edu Fri May 18 10:48:21 2001 From: colin at tyr.med.umn.edu (Colin Kilbane) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More SGI Boxes... In-Reply-To: <3B0510D2.54BADDD2@talkware.net> Message-ID: Starting with the indy, SGI started to use standard Ps2 keaboards and mice. I wonder if there is a driver for scrolling mice for irix? Colin From colin at tyr.med.umn.edu Fri May 18 10:51:59 2001 From: colin at tyr.med.umn.edu (Colin Kilbane) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Debate In-Reply-To: <01051807101800.01318@numidea.thuria.org> Message-ID: Are we just talking just about x86 and clones or all processors in genera. I believe that the strong ARM, mips, and for the mostpart all of the processors that drive CE devices are RISC. On the other hand I have been informed that the palm pilot runs on a version of the motorola 68000, of mac, amiga, atari, and sega fame. It's the processor that just wont die! Colin From blutgens at sistina.com Fri May 18 10:57:47 2001 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Opera 5 does align links (Man 8.0) In-Reply-To: <3B054494.B5F129DE@qwest.net>; from ssinn@qwest.net on Fri, May 18, 2001 at 10:49:41AM -0500 References: <3B054494.B5F129DE@qwest.net> Message-ID: <20010518105747.A3498@minime.sistina.com> On Fri, May 18, 2001 at 10:49:41AM -0500, ssinn@qwest.net wrote: I don't have that problem, I am running it on Debian unstable and Gentoo. It's perfect. >That is pretty typical of Opera. It did that with Red Hat, Slackware and SuSE >for me. Does that in Windows too : ) >I am not sure if it is the browser interpreting code poorly or the web >designer write poor code. IIRC it has trouble rendering some *.jsp's >It is still a better choice (for me) than Netscape, which has the bad habit of >filling up my swap space. > >Ben Luey wrote: > >> Anyone else having problems with Opera displaying links on top of text in >> html pages and often rendering text on top of text? I've got Mandrake 8.0 >> with qt2-2.3 and the dynamic version of Opera 5 final. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ben >> >> _______________________________________________ >> tclug-list mailing list >> tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >_______________________________________________ >tclug-list mailing list >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Ben Lutgens Sistina Software Inc. MIS Geek http://www.sistina.com/ <--- great software http://www.gentoo.org/ <--- great distro Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream <--- perfect error message -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010518/c0654e4a/attachment.pgp From ssinn at qwest.net Fri May 18 11:39:46 2001 From: ssinn at qwest.net (ssinn@qwest.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Opera 5 does align links (Man 8.0) References: <3B054494.B5F129DE@qwest.net> <20010518105747.A3498@minime.sistina.com> Message-ID: <3B055051.90F0AB8A@qwest.net> I am running the static-linked version on Slackware 7.1. Of course, now I can't find a site as an example. However, http://www.pricewatch.com does not render fully with Opera. But it uses frames. Same browser, different bug : ) Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Fri, May 18, 2001 at 10:49:41AM -0500, ssinn@qwest.net wrote: > > I don't have that problem, I am running it on Debian unstable and Gentoo. It's > perfect. > > >That is pretty typical of Opera. It did that with Red Hat, Slackware and SuSE > >for me. Does that in Windows too : ) > >I am not sure if it is the browser interpreting code poorly or the web > >designer write poor code. IIRC it has trouble rendering some *.jsp's > >It is still a better choice (for me) than Netscape, which has the bad habit of > >filling up my swap space. > > > >Ben Luey wrote: > > > >> Anyone else having problems with Opera displaying links on top of text in > >> html pages and often rendering text on top of text? I've got Mandrake 8.0 > >> with qt2-2.3 and the dynamic version of Opera 5 final. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Ben > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> tclug-list mailing list > >> tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >> https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > >_______________________________________________ > >tclug-list mailing list > >tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- > Ben Lutgens > Sistina Software Inc. > MIS Geek > http://www.sistina.com/ <--- great software > http://www.gentoo.org/ <--- great distro > Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream <--- perfect error message > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Part 1.2Type: application/pgp-signature From dd-b at dd-b.net Fri May 18 11:51:15 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Debate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Phil Mendelsohn writes: > On Thu, 17 May 2001, Matt Waters wrote: > > > When one of you guys put your SGI Indy up for sale, I told my friend > > about it, and we began arguing over the power of a risc processer. He argues > > that because of a risc's limited instruction set, a risc is slower than a > > comperable x86 because it requires more intructions to accomplish a task. I > > argue that risc's have more bang per computational cycle, because the > > instructions they use take up fewer clock cycles, and fewer instructions > > means the cpu can transmit data more quickly. > > Um, the thing that both of you are leaving out is that we're talking about > a programmable machine. The reason it's a religious war starter, as *I* > understand it, is that it's really hard to compare apples to apples > anyway. It depends largely on the task you want to do. So, you might be > able to do the same thing equally efficiently, but the algorithm might > need to be completely different for the two machines. Like a risc machine > might win using a bubble sort, but a cisc machine might win using an > insertion sort, and if you let each play to their strengths, they might > tie. > > Another example might be that x86 processors won't move memory to memory > without involving a register. Maybe a MIPS (or other risc chip) does > allow this sometimes. So for some things that just *move* data, the risc > processor kills, but slows down when you have to figure out how to make it > process. Nope, you won't find memory-to-memory moves on any RISC architecture; it's completely outside the envelope. > The only thing I'd say about your statement is that saying that a risc > proc. has more bang per clock cycle is incorrect as phrased. The > principle is that you puposely have *less* bang per cycle, but you "make > it up in volume." You optimize the common operations, and you expose more of the "real" hardware (so you get things like delayed branch and delayed memory load). > Doing a little looking at assembly code would be most instructive. If you > write a little program in C, 'g++ -S ' will compile to a *.s file, which > is assembly code. I think if you do the same and include the switch for > the MIPS target, you will get some MIPS assy code. You still don't know > how many cycles each instruction takes, but you'd get an idea of how > different the paths are to get to the same point. On a RISC architecture, each instruction takes one cycle. Another theoretical issue, which doesn't work out in this universe in practice, is that RISC processors are simpler and smaller (smaller die size). This should, theoretically, allow them to be fabricated in newer, faster, processes, which aren't yet up to the complexity of a Pentium 4. This hasn't worked out in practice because Intel and AMD are throwing such tremendous resources at making Intel-compatible chips as fast as possible. The RISC architectures keep up pretty well *given the disparity of resources*. -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From jethro at freakzilla.com Fri May 18 11:51:43 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Latest Mozilla nightlies? Message-ID: Hey, Anyone else noticing really HORRIBLE stability on Mozilla nightly builds for the past week or so? -Yaron -- From dd-b at dd-b.net Fri May 18 11:56:46 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Opera 5 does align links (Man 8.0) In-Reply-To: <01051810230102.06815@dedannshae.thuria.org> References: <01051810230102.06815@dedannshae.thuria.org> Message-ID: "Dave Sherman" writes: > Yes, I run into that occasionally. Especially at linuxworld.com -- their > site is terrible in Opera. But I figured it was because they were using > css with absolute positioning or something. I haven't even looked at the > source, though. It comes up mostly okay in Opera 5.11 for Windows, except for the LinuxWorld.com logo overlaying just a bit of the right column. The rest looks reasonable. -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From dd-b at dd-b.net Fri May 18 11:52:40 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Debate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Colin Kilbane writes: > I have never heard that a cisc chip was more efficent than a risc chip. > It boils down to the most common operations that a processor executes. If > you can do the same process with fewer instructions, this translates to > fewer processor cycles per process so it is more efficent. Intel just > decided to do the hotrod method. To overcome the inefficent nature of our > cisc instruction set one can either soup up that chevy nova with a 435 hp > engine Moterola with it's risc chips took the bmw approach. Lets > redesign the whole car, or design a new one that is lighter, more > aerodynamic so it needs a smaller more efficent engine. Thats why we have > 1.7 ghz intels and 600mhz motorolas. Pardon the spelling, I'm a bit > drunk. Except that's the *opposite* of what we should have; it ought to be possible to fabricate the simpler chips in faster technologies. But Intel is pouring such tremendous research into fab and process work that the Intel chips have higher clock rates available. Of course it takes multiple cycles to complete most Intel instructions, whereas RISC instructions complete in one cycle. -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From dd-b at dd-b.net Fri May 18 11:54:26 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Debate In-Reply-To: <01051807101800.01318@numidea.thuria.org> References: <01051807101800.01318@numidea.thuria.org> Message-ID: "Dave Sherman" writes: > According to the folks at Ars Technica (www.arstechnica.com), this debate > is dead, because there is no such thing as a pure RISC or pure CISC chip > any longer -- both technologies have converged, taken the best of each > design philosophy, to the point where the differences are so slight that > they are far outweighted by the similarities. That's been true for a while too. RISC was a paradigm shift based on changes in the relative speed of processor, RAM, and ROM. It started to make more sense in the early 80's. And over the years things have continued to change, and people have refined and improved architectures to do what they think is important at the time. I still find them somewhat useful categories, not to say a chip is one or the other, but to say that ideas or aspects of a design are one or the other. -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From simeonuj at eetc.com Fri May 18 09:04:55 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No more S***! References: Message-ID: <3B052C01.E120A7D9@eetc.com> Consider this. If this was closed development we wouldn't even know about this issue until it was fixed ( or until there was some sort of beta that worked ). Actually ... we wouldn't even know about this issue and probably told there isn't an issue and that it's our problem. Or maybe it'll be fixed in the next release -- maybe. :-) Just a friendly reminder that the normal rules don't apply here. * Even though I don't really know what the normal rules would be in this situation * sim Matt Waters wrote: > Although I know precisely jack dick about how linux's disk drivers work, > what Linus is saying does make sense. Although totally reworking and > improving the disk driver system would be a pain in the ass for a little > while, I think a better, simpler disk driver system would work out for the > best in the long run. From austad at marketwatch.com Fri May 18 12:06:41 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Latest Mozilla nightlies? Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807AF@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Yep, they suck. The latest point release is good though. > -----Original Message----- > From: Yaron [mailto:jethro@freakzilla.com] > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 11:52 AM > To: TCLUG > Subject: [TCLUG] Latest Mozilla nightlies? > > > Hey, > > Anyone else noticing really HORRIBLE stability on Mozilla > nightly builds > for the past week or so? > > > -Yaron > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From austad at marketwatch.com Fri May 18 12:06:41 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Latest Mozilla nightlies? Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807AF@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Yep, they suck. The latest point release is good though. > -----Original Message----- > From: Yaron [mailto:jethro@freakzilla.com] > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 11:52 AM > To: TCLUG > Subject: [TCLUG] Latest Mozilla nightlies? > > > Hey, > > Anyone else noticing really HORRIBLE stability on Mozilla > nightly builds > for the past week or so? > > > -Yaron > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From florin at iucha.net Fri May 18 13:49:59 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Latest Mozilla nightlies? In-Reply-To: ; from jethro@freakzilla.com on Fri, May 18, 2001 at 11:51:43AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010518134959.A26770@beaver.iucha.org> On Fri, May 18, 2001 at 11:51:43AM -0500, Yaron wrote: > Hey, > > Anyone else noticing really HORRIBLE stability on Mozilla nightly builds > for the past week or so? Yep. I used to download a nighlty build every Tuesday/Friday and use it for a week. The past weeks I wasn't able to get any working (on WinNT at least - yes, I use my NT workstation for browsing :(). florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From thefishyone at hotmail.com Fri May 18 14:14:45 2001 From: thefishyone at hotmail.com (Matt Waters) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Debate Message-ID: >Wait, are you talking about the data/address bus, or are you talking about >the size of the registers? Better define "efficient use of data" better >before you argue this one too far, I think. > >-- >"To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous I believe that the mips has a 64-bit data bus. I had generally assumed that the address bus was always twice as wide as the data bus, but that's because I've only coded assembly on the z80 along with the fact that I'm probably being a dumbass by thinking like that. Anyway, I digress. As for "efficient use of data", what I meant by that was that since the data bus allows the processor to process 64-bit chunks at a time as opposed to 32-bit chunks, the cpu can handle more data in a given instant. Basically, I was commenting on the wider bus. BTW, if any of you know much about the mips and say that the data bus is only 32 bits wide, and it's the registers that are 64 bits big, please let me know. ---------- The Fishy One's Infinite Wisdom #15: "A man doesn't need a scarecrow if he's got penguins." New wisdom every week! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri May 18 14:28:25 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Debate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 May 2001, Matt Waters wrote: > Anyway, I digress. As for "efficient use of data", what I meant by > that was that since the data bus allows the processor to process > 64-bit chunks at a time as opposed to 32-bit chunks, the cpu can > handle more data in a given instant. Basically, I was commenting on > the wider bus. Hold up. What I'm getting at is that *moving* data, which is what the bus does, is not connected to *processing* the data. You can hang a 1024-bit bus off a chip, but if it has 16-bit registers, then it still can only process 16-bits at a time. So I still ask if you're talking about bus width or register width. The thing with having a wide data bus is that you won't have the computer sitting around waiting for cycles to pass while the memory arrives, if you do it right. But this is getting into splitting hairs between system throughput and *processor* throughput, which is one component of the former. > BTW, if any of you know much about the mips and say that the data bus is > only 32 bits wide, and it's the registers that are 64 bits big, please let > me know. Well, think about that for a second. I have a hard time seeing how you'd benefit from needing two fetch instructions to load up a register... A peek at MIPS web site should tell you for sure. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From sraun at fireopal.org Fri May 18 14:35:02 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Using gladiator for Debian Message-ID: <20010518143502.A11795@iaxs.net> I'm trying to interpret things. Is this the right line to put in my sources.list? deb ftp://ftp.mn-linux.org/linux/debian testing main contrib non-free -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Fri May 18 14:37:40 2001 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Using gladiator for Debian In-Reply-To: <20010518143502.A11795@iaxs.net>; from sraun@fireopal.org on Fri, May 18, 2001 at 02:35:02PM -0500 References: <20010518143502.A11795@iaxs.net> Message-ID: <20010518143740.B8565@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Fri, May 18, 2001 at 02:35:02PM -0500, Scott Raun wrote: > I'm trying to interpret things. Is this the right line to put in my > sources.list? > > deb ftp://ftp.mn-linux.org/linux/debian testing main contrib non-free Yeah, that should work. -- Jim Crumley | crumley@fields.space.umn.edu | Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378 | From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Fri May 18 14:35:15 2001 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Latest Mozilla nightlies? In-Reply-To: ; from jethro@freakzilla.com on Fri, May 18, 2001 at 11:51:43AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010518143515.A8565@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Fri, May 18, 2001 at 11:51:43AM -0500, Yaron wrote: > Hey, > > Anyone else noticing really HORRIBLE stability on Mozilla nightly builds > for the past week or so? Yeah, its alway good to checkout http://www.mozillazine.org/build_comments/ before downloading nightlies. -- Jim Crumley | crumley@fields.space.umn.edu | Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378 | From tanner at real-time.com Fri May 18 14:45:26 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Using gladiator for Debian In-Reply-To: <20010518143740.B8565@gordo.space.umn.edu>; from crumley@belka.space.umn.edu on Fri, May 18, 2001 at 02:37:40PM -0500 References: <20010518143502.A11795@iaxs.net> <20010518143740.B8565@gordo.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010518144526.U6160@real-time.com> Quoting Jim Crumley (crumley@belka.space.umn.edu): > On Fri, May 18, 2001 at 02:35:02PM -0500, Scott Raun wrote: > > I'm trying to interpret things. Is this the right line to put in my > > sources.list? > > > > deb ftp://ftp.mn-linux.org/linux/debian testing main contrib non-free > > Yeah, that should work. He debian guys, you wanna but something in .msg or README in the debian area so people know what to put into your sources.list file? You know, when the cd into the directory it would show them the info. Also, send it to info@mn-linux.org so we can put it somewhere on the web site. Thanks. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From tanner at real-time.com Fri May 18 14:46:01 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Latest Mozilla nightlies? In-Reply-To: <20010518143515.A8565@gordo.space.umn.edu>; from crumley@belka.space.umn.edu on Fri, May 18, 2001 at 02:35:15PM -0500 References: <20010518143515.A8565@gordo.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010518144601.V6160@real-time.com> Quoting Jim Crumley (crumley@belka.space.umn.edu): > On Fri, May 18, 2001 at 11:51:43AM -0500, Yaron wrote: > > Hey, > > > > Anyone else noticing really HORRIBLE stability on Mozilla nightly builds > > for the past week or so? > > Yeah, its alway good to checkout http://www.mozillazine.org/build_comments/ > before downloading nightlies. Activate Talkback and use bugzilla. Help make mozilla more stable. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From tanner at real-time.com Fri May 18 14:43:49 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] glibc upgrade, chicken-and-the-egg Message-ID: <20010518144349.T6160@real-time.com> I got a G3 running YDL and I would like to upgrade glibc (this problem is not specific to YDL). Anyway, I got glibc-2.2.3 and I tried to update and there are lots of dependencies that fail. There are many other packages that depend on the old glibc-2.1, ok, irritating, but I understand. On of these packages is pam, so I go get the latest pam, BUT it depends on rpm 4.0 to be installed. Another irritation. :-) Grabbed rpm 4.0, it depends on glibc-2.2.3! ARRGH! Circular dependencies. Is my only choice to compile everything by hand? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From dutchman at uswest.net Fri May 18 14:54:51 2001 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kernel Options Message-ID: <3B057E0B.D58E1E42@uswest.net> Greet the sun all: On a RH 7.1 machine, how do you know what kernel options have been compiled in? I need to know whether IP Aliasing is compiled into the kernel. Under 6.2, I thought there was a utility called something like kernelconf but I have been unable to locate it on my RH 7.1 distribution -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Fri May 18 15:23:09 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] glibc upgrade, chicken-and-the-egg Message-ID: Bob, I dislike this situation intensely, but I have been able to get around it by doing silly rpm tricks (like --nodeps and/or --force), or put all the circular RPMs on one command line: $ rpm -uvh rpm*.rpm glibc*.rpm pam*.rpm and see what it does with that. I seem to remember doing this and having it work. Is there something wrong with doing it like this? Troy >>> tanner@real-time.com 05/18/01 02:43PM >>> I got a G3 running YDL and I would like to upgrade glibc (this problem is not specific to YDL). Anyway, I got glibc-2.2.3 and I tried to update and there are lots of dependencies that fail. There are many other packages that depend on the old glibc-2.1, ok, irritating, but I understand. On of these packages is pam, so I go get the latest pam, BUT it depends on rpm 4.0 to be installed. Another irritation. :-) Grabbed rpm 4.0, it depends on glibc-2.2.3! ARRGH! Circular dependencies. Is my only choice to compile everything by hand? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jethro at freakzilla.com Fri May 18 15:33:36 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Latest Mozilla nightlies? In-Reply-To: <20010518143515.A8565@gordo.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: Hi, On Fri, 18 May 2001, Jim Crumley wrote: > Yeah, its alway good to checkout http://www.mozillazine.org/build_comments/ > before downloading nightlies. Yeah, but they've said it was unstable before and it gave me no problems. Now it is though! Bob: I'm doing that (: -Yaron -- From zibby at ringworld.org Fri May 18 15:39:05 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] glibc upgrade, chicken-and-the-egg In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And the Debian Decpiles begin chanting... "oh oH OH Oh oh...Debian..." Sorry, sorry, sorry... | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri May 18 15:47:09 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] glibc upgrade, chicken-and-the-egg In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 May 2001, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > And the Debian Decpiles begin chanting... No, a Debian Decpile, usually "DEC-pile," is an Alpha box with flaky hardware, isn't it? I think you meant "disciple". :) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From natecars at real-time.com Fri May 18 15:55:42 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] glibc upgrade, chicken-and-the-egg In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 May 2001, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > And the Debian Decpiles begin chanting... > > "oh oH OH Oh oh...Debian..." > > Sorry, sorry, sorry... Actually, I've heard Bob mutter "I wish this was Debian" many-a-time working on machines back here. :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From blutgens at sistina.com Fri May 18 16:05:30 2001 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] glibc upgrade, chicken-and-the-egg In-Reply-To: ; from natecars@real-time.com on Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:55:42PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010518160530.A8056@minime.sistina.com> On Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:55:42PM -0500, Nate Carlson wrote: >On Fri, 18 May 2001, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > >Actually, I've heard Bob mutter "I wish this was Debian" many-a-time >working on machines back here. :) When I started working at sistina almost everyone was redhat users, after they use debian they become converts. My entusiasm is a little infectious, not to mention the power of apt-get. The bottom line is that all distros suck. But debian sucks less. -- Ben Lutgens Sistina Software Inc. MIS Geek http://www.sistina.com/ <--- great software http://www.gentoo.org/ <--- great distro Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream <--- perfect error message -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010518/66e34cde/attachment.pgp From lxy at cloudnet.com Fri May 18 16:12:08 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] glibc upgrade, chicken-and-the-egg In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >>> tanner@real-time.com 05/18/01 02:43PM >>> > I got a G3 running YDL and I would like to upgrade glibc (this problem is not > specific to YDL). > > On of these packages is pam, so I go get the latest pam, BUT it depends on > rpm 4.0 to be installed. Another irritation. :-) > > Grabbed rpm 4.0, it depends on glibc-2.2.3! ARRGH! Circular dependencies. The chicken-and-the-RPM problem has frustrated me for some time. At the risk of breaking the system, I finally found a way to do it without causing any damage that I can see. I think Bob is past this problem, but I messed with it so long I need to tell someone :-) For a long time I was running on RPM = 3.0.5. All the good RPMs (OpenSSH, sendmail, apache) needed >= 3.0.6. I downloaded the 3.0.6 RPM, rpm -U rpm-3.0.6, and guess what! RPM 3.0.6 needs RPM >= 3.0.6 to install. How does THAT work? Anyway, what I doscovered is that if you download the binary tarball for RPM of www.rpm.org and un-tar it, RPM is in a half upgraded state that some RPMs see 3.0.5 and some see 3.0.6. Fortunately, rpm-3.0.6 saw 3.0.6 and completed the upgrade. I used the --nodeps option because of the same problem Bob is having. It APPEARS to work. I did an rpm --updatedb for safe measure, and everybody agreed that I was running rpm-3.0.6. Yay. So Bob, I would try the --nodeps and get RPM upgraded first. You may need to do the same trick with the tarballs to go from 3.x to 4.0, I don't remember which version 4.0 is packed with. In general, I think the solution is to get RPM upgraded first and then work from there. I shudder at using --nodeps but then I remember it's there for a reason. Anyway, I hope somewhere in my ramblings this has helped. From lxy at cloudnet.com Fri May 18 16:17:00 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] glibc upgrade, chicken-and-the-egg In-Reply-To: <20010518160530.A8056@minime.sistina.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 May 2001, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > The bottom line is that all distros suck. But debian sucks less. Ben- If Debian sucks less, then what's this about? http://www.gentoo.org/ <--- great distro -Brian From jay-tclug at 3pound.com Fri May 18 18:34:05 2001 From: jay-tclug at 3pound.com (Jay J) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Yikes!? access to EEPROM/universal programmer? Message-ID: <20010518183405.010b2355.jay-tclug@3pound.com> Greetings, We fell victim to a faulty (or incompatible) AMI BIOS flash utility distributed by PC-Chips, now I'm on a crusade to return this obsolete POS to it's somewhat-operational state. I don't own any sort of EEPROM programmer. so I'm calling on this list to see if someone can help defy this company of any twisted satisfaction by reversing this injustice! It's a 32-pin AMI BIOS chip (not soldered to the board), this chip may work or an equivalent is also available from Radio Shack. It belongs to a PC-Chips M570 (v1.3) board, of which I have several ROM's that I believe will suffice (provided the utility/burner works). Thanks for reading, -Jay Jarvinen ------------------------------------------------------------------- (for reference) We're not alone: http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:a7f0cefcab475ce2:www.stud.fernuni-hagen.de/q3998142/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000657.html+chipset/flash+m571&hl=en A company that could help does exist: http://www.badflash.com EEPROM programmers are* available locally (although difficult to find, at least for me): AEI Electronic Parts, 224 Washington Av N Minneapolis, MN (612) 338-4754 .. (formerly Acme, now abbreviated) they keep 1 model in stock, ~$250 From seg at haxxed.com Fri May 18 19:11:04 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Yikes!? access to EEPROM/universal programmer? References: <20010518183405.010b2355.jay-tclug@3pound.com> Message-ID: <3B05BA18.902A7BDB@haxxed.com> Jay J wrote: > > Greetings, > > We fell victim to a faulty (or incompatible) AMI BIOS flash utility > distributed by PC-Chips, now I'm on a crusade to return this obsolete > POS to it's somewhat-operational state. > Get an identical board that works, boot it up, carefully pull its EEPROM while its running *cough* and replace it with the bad one. Then use a working flash program on it... From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Fri May 18 19:14:51 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] glibc upgrade, chicken-and-the-egg In-Reply-To: <20010518144349.T6160@real-time.com> References: <20010518144349.T6160@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010518191451.431da830.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Bob Tanner wrote: > > Anyway, I got glibc-2.2.3 and I tried to update and there are lots of > dependencies that fail. There are many other packages that depend on the > old glibc-2.1, ok, irritating, but I understand. > > On of these packages is pam, so I go get the latest pam, BUT it depends > on rpm 4.0 to be installed. Another irritation. :-) > > Grabbed rpm 4.0, it depends on glibc-2.2.3! ARRGH! Circular > dependencies. > > Is my only choice to compile everything by hand? Well, you probably don't have to recompile everything, but you may have to compile at least one thing. Perhaps try doing an `rpm --rebuild' on the rpm 4.0 source. Perhaps you'd be able to upgrade that, then install everything (of course, rpm might itself become dependent on glibc-2.1..) Also, have you perhaps tried just installing (rather than upgrading) glibc-2.2.3? I suppose it's possible you could get two glibcs on the system at once, long enough to upgrade rpm and then upgrade the other packages. I suppose you could also ignore pam for a while -- it's only around to authenticate a login, so as long as you have several shells up and running, and don't type `exit', you'll be okay until it can be upgraded. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ WWhhaatt ddooeess / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ dduupplleexx mmeeaann?? \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri May 18 20:04:55 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Yikes!? access to EEPROM/universal programmer? In-Reply-To: <3B05BA18.902A7BDB@haxxed.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 May 2001, Callum Lerwick wrote: > > We fell victim to a faulty (or incompatible) AMI BIOS flash utility > > distributed by PC-Chips, now I'm on a crusade to return this obsolete > > POS to it's somewhat-operational state. > > > Get an identical board that works, boot it up, carefully pull its EEPROM > while its running *cough* and replace it with the bad one. Then use a > working flash program on it... Even though this bending of the rules *can* work, there is still a chance you can zap either your EEPROMS or the board that's powered up. In other words, don't do it on a machine you can't afford to lose. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From tclug-list at lists.real-time.com Sat May 19 09:18:39 2001 From: tclug-list at lists.real-time.com (tclug-list@lists.real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] °ª¶¯¤G«H»´ÃP­É±z20¸U Time:AM 09:18:39 Message-ID: <200105190120.f4J1KJK07438@sprite.real-time.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010519/139dcc1d/attachment.htm From blayer at qwest.net Fri May 18 21:35:08 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Yikes!? access to EEPROM/universal programmer? In-Reply-To: <20010518183405.010b2355.jay-tclug@3pound.com> References: <20010518183405.010b2355.jay-tclug@3pound.com> Message-ID: <20010518213508.3f1cf1d4.blayer@qwest.net> On Fri, 18 May 2001 18:34:05 -0500 "Jay J" wrote: > Greetings, > > We fell victim to a faulty (or incompatible) AMI BIOS flash utility > distributed by PC-Chips, now I'm on a crusade to return this obsolete > POS to it's somewhat-operational state. Heh, you shouldn't need to go to any extremes for this.. if that is any recent sort of AMI BIOS, it supports boot-block recovery mode. This is a little-known feature that will enable you to use a floppy drive containing a BIOS image to re-program the EEPROM, even though the board won't POST, and seems totally dead. Here is a detail on the procedure, good luck... this comes from http://www.ping.be/bios aka Wim's BIOS Page: Modern motherboards have a boot-block BIOS. This is small area of the BIOS that doesn't get overwritten when you flash a BIOS. The boot-block BIOS only has support for the floppy drive. If you have a PCI video card you won't see anything on the screen because the boot-block BIOS only supports an ISA videocard. Award: The boot-block BIOS will execute an AUTOEXEC.BAT file on a bootable diskette. Copy an Award flasher & the correct BIOS *.bin file on the floppy and execute it automaticly by putting awdflash *.bin in the AUTOEXEC.BAT file. AMI: The AMI boot-block BIOS will look for a AMIBOOT.ROM file on a diskette. Copy and rename the correct BIOS file on the floppy and power up the PC. The floppy doesn't need to be bootable. You will see the PC read the floppy, after about 4 minutes you will hear 4 beeps, this means the transfer is done. Reboot the PC and modify the CMOS for your configuration. -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From veldy at veldy.net Sat May 19 01:07:11 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] glibc upgrade, chicken-and-the-egg References: <20010518144349.T6160@real-time.com> Message-ID: <002201c0e029$f2100130$0101a8c0@cascade> Guess you need Debian :) Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Tanner" To: Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 2:43 PM Subject: [TCLUG] glibc upgrade, chicken-and-the-egg > I got a G3 running YDL and I would like to upgrade glibc (this problem is not > specific to YDL). > > Anyway, I got glibc-2.2.3 and I tried to update and there are lots of > dependencies that fail. There are many other packages that depend on the old > glibc-2.1, ok, irritating, but I understand. > > On of these packages is pam, so I go get the latest pam, BUT it depends on > rpm 4.0 to be installed. Another irritation. :-) > > Grabbed rpm 4.0, it depends on glibc-2.2.3! ARRGH! Circular dependencies. > > Is my only choice to compile everything by hand? > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From colin at tyr.med.umn.edu Sat May 19 10:35:28 2001 From: colin at tyr.med.umn.edu (Colin Kilbane) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slow list In-Reply-To: <002201c0e029$f2100130$0101a8c0@cascade> Message-ID: Man the list has been dead this week. Here is a little topic, I'm sure we'll all have to put in on. Bill Gates, How I hate thee. Let me count the ways. lets see... Registry rot sucks, it really sucks Please add your own... Colin Kilbane From m_nassar at yahoo.com Sat May 19 11:49:52 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Yikes!? access to EEPROM/universal programmer? In-Reply-To: <20010518183405.010b2355.jay-tclug@3pound.com> Message-ID: <20010519164952.41638.qmail@web10106.mail.yahoo.com> badflash.com supposedly reflashes/replaces your bios for $20 or so... -munir --- Jay J wrote: > Greetings, > > We fell victim to a faulty (or incompatible) AMI > BIOS flash utility > distributed by PC-Chips, now I'm on a crusade to > return this obsolete > POS to it's somewhat-operational state. > > I don't own any sort of EEPROM programmer. so I'm > calling on this > list to see if someone can help defy this company of > any twisted > satisfaction by reversing this injustice! > > It's a 32-pin AMI BIOS chip (not soldered to the > board), this chip may > work or an equivalent is also available from Radio > Shack. It belongs to > a PC-Chips M570 (v1.3) board, of which I have > several ROM's that I > believe will suffice (provided the utility/burner > works). > > Thanks for reading, > > -Jay Jarvinen > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > (for reference) > > We're not alone: > > http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:a7f0cefcab475ce2:www.stud.fernuni-hagen.de/q3998142/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000657.html+chipset/flash+m571&hl=en > > A company that could help does exist: > > http://www.badflash.com > > EEPROM programmers are* available locally (although > difficult to find, > at least for me): > > AEI Electronic Parts, 224 Washington Av N > Minneapolis, MN (612) 338-4754 > .. (formerly Acme, now abbreviated) they keep 1 > model in stock, ~$250 > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Sat May 19 12:19:16 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Yikes!? access to EEPROM/universal programmer? In-Reply-To: <20010518183405.010b2355.jay-tclug@3pound.com> References: <20010518183405.010b2355.jay-tclug@3pound.com> Message-ID: <20010519121916.7b349198.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Jay J wrote: > > Greetings, > > We fell victim to a faulty (or incompatible) AMI BIOS flash utility > distributed by PC-Chips, now I'm on a crusade to return this obsolete > POS to it's somewhat-operational state. [snip] > We're not alone: > > http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:a7f0cefcab475ce2:www.stud.fernuni-hagen.de/q3998142/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000657.html+chipset/flash+m571&hl=en > Following up to Bill's post, and looking at the page above, what have you tried with putting the ROM on a diskette and attempting to fix it that way? I see that you may have to activate the boot-block BIOS by pressing CTRL+HOME at boot. Presuming that you had a `good' flash, and the checksums were properly computed, the system might not know that it's loading an improper BIOS, so it might have to be told to look at the diskette. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Always draw your curves, / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ _then_ plot the data. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From lxy at cloudnet.com Sat May 19 12:39:18 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] all-in-one server/router deal Message-ID: I just got my cable modem up and running. My plan is to plug a linux box into the cable modem as a router and have multiple boxen behind it. I also want to run Apache, sendmail, IRC, SSH, and a few other services on it. The problem is firewalling. I like to write TIGHT scripts (after being comprimised once I'm a little over-paranoid) by opening up just the service I need and DENYing any other packet from any source that's not on my specific guest list. The problem here is that everything inside the router gets blocked. ICQ, Napster, and a plethora of other oddball IP apps stop working because I've firewalled them out, but I don't want people breaking into my router. Is there a good way to run this setup? -Brian From tanner at real-time.com Sat May 19 13:29:09 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slow list In-Reply-To: ; from colin@tyr.med.umn.edu on Sat, May 19, 2001 at 10:35:28AM -0500 References: <002201c0e029$f2100130$0101a8c0@cascade> Message-ID: <20010519132909.B5338@real-time.com> Quoting Colin Kilbane (colin@tyr.med.umn.edu): > Man the list has been dead this week. Here is a little topic, I'm sure > we'll all have to put in on. > > Bill Gates, How I hate thee. Let me count the ways. > > lets see... > Registry rot sucks, it really sucks > > Please add your own... It's summer. The college boys/girls have finals coming. The old farts like me have yard-work/outside projects/honey-do-lists. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From m_nassar at yahoo.com Sat May 19 13:31:04 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] all-in-one server/router deal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010519183104.37421.qmail@web10104.mail.yahoo.com> put ICQ and Napster on a "expendable" machine and then put this machine in its own network outside the firewall, a DMZ if you will... -munir --- Brian wrote: > I just got my cable modem up and running. My plan > is to plug a linux box > into the cable modem as a router and have multiple > boxen behind it. I > also want to run Apache, sendmail, IRC, SSH, and a > few other services on > it. The problem is firewalling. I like to write > TIGHT scripts (after > being comprimised once I'm a little over-paranoid) > by opening up just the > service I need and DENYing any other packet from any > source that's not on > my specific guest list. > > The problem here is that everything inside the > router gets blocked. ICQ, > Napster, and a plethora of other oddball IP apps > stop working because I've > firewalled them out, but I don't want people > breaking into my router. Is > there a good way to run this setup? > > -Brian > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From seg at haxxed.com Sat May 19 15:58:49 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] glibc upgrade, chicken-and-the-egg References: <20010518144349.T6160@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B06DE89.D868B7EB@haxxed.com> Bob Tanner wrote: > > I got a G3 running YDL and I would like to upgrade glibc (this problem is not > specific to YDL). > > Anyway, I got glibc-2.2.3 and I tried to update and there are lots of > dependencies that fail. There are many other packages that depend on the old > glibc-2.1, ok, irritating, but I understand. > > On of these packages is pam, so I go get the latest pam, BUT it depends on > rpm 4.0 to be installed. Another irritation. :-) > > Grabbed rpm 4.0, it depends on glibc-2.2.3! ARRGH! Circular dependencies. > > Is my only choice to compile everything by hand? Grab the RPM 4.0 tarball, build it using your existing RPM using rpm -tb rpm-4.0-whatever.tar.gz, then install it, you'll then have RPM 4 built against whatever libraries are currently installed. Now upgrading glibc manually on an RPM system, thats deep voodoo as far as I'm concerned... From ³Ì±o¤Oªº¦nÀ°¤â at real-time.com Sat May 19 16:59:54 2001 From: ³Ì±o¤Oªº¦nÀ°¤â at real-time.com (³Ì±o¤Oªº¦nÀ°¤â@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] =?big5?Q?=C5=FD=B1z=BE=DE=A7@=B7=C6=B9=AB=AA=BA=A4=E2=A4=A3=BB=C4.=A4=A3=B5h.=A4=A3=AA=F8=C3=B5!?= Message-ID: <200105192159.f4JLxqK24414@sprite.real-time.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 3400 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010519/ded6d3eb/attachment.jpe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 2833 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010519/ded6d3eb/attachment-0001.jpe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 2646 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010519/ded6d3eb/attachment-0002.jpe From jkey at usa.net Sat May 19 17:42:09 2001 From: jkey at usa.net (Joseph Key) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] all-in-one server/router deal References: Message-ID: <3B06F6C1.60B545DE@usa.net> Have you tried using one of the single floppy linux routers. Most will allow you to open specific ports to specific machines running servers and such. I have used freesco with a cable modem and a dialup line. You can get freesco from www.freesco.org Joseph Key Brian wrote: > > I just got my cable modem up and running. My plan is to plug a linux box > into the cable modem as a router and have multiple boxen behind it. I > also want to run Apache, sendmail, IRC, SSH, and a few other services on > it. The problem is firewalling. I like to write TIGHT scripts (after > being comprimised once I'm a little over-paranoid) by opening up just the > service I need and DENYing any other packet from any source that's not on > my specific guest list. > > The problem here is that everything inside the router gets blocked. ICQ, > Napster, and a plethora of other oddball IP apps stop working because I've > firewalled them out, but I don't want people breaking into my router. Is > there a good way to run this setup? > > -Brian > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Sat May 19 18:45:26 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slow list In-Reply-To: <20010519132909.B5338@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Sat, May 19, 2001 at 01:29:09PM -0500 References: <002201c0e029$f2100130$0101a8c0@cascade> <20010519132909.B5338@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010519184526.I28763@ringworld.org> * Bob Tanner [010519 13:31]: > The college boys/girls have finals coming. Coming? Gone. Like. allmost over a week and a half for me :) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010519/14447f16/attachment.pgp From simeonuj at eetc.com Sat May 19 19:47:38 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] all-in-one server/router deal References: Message-ID: <3B071426.3808CC67@eetc.com> Brian wrote: > I just got my cable modem up and running. My plan is to plug a linux box > into the cable modem as a router and have multiple boxen behind it. I > also want to run Apache, sendmail, IRC, SSH, and a few other services on Apache -- Port 80 sendmail -- receive POP3 = 110, send SMTP = 25 IRC -- I don't know SSH -- port 22 What others? > it. The problem is firewalling. I like to write TIGHT scripts (after > being comprimised once I'm a little over-paranoid) by opening up just the > service I need and DENYing any other packet from any source that's not on > my specific guest list. > > The problem here is that everything inside the router gets blocked. ICQ, > Napster, and a plethora of other oddball IP apps stop working because I've > firewalled them out, but I don't want people breaking into my router. Is > there a good way to run this setup? Are you talking about Napster and ICQ server apps? I didn't know ICQ had a server app. If your just talking about clients and not servers you could allow anything going out from the inside through your rouiter and be pretty secure. You could specify what your internal ip's are and allow everything out. Or allow ranges of ports that those app's use. If your talking servers than that is a completely different deamon. -- My personal favorite distro for firewalls is Trustix 1.2. I even have an article for setting up a firewall that will allow common services. I think the article is gone now. Can't find it on security portals site. I would also recomend one of the floppy distros. Never used them but the idea is very good. If your firewall is ever compromised you only have to reboot to get back everything that was lost or modified. No permanent damage done. Trustix 1.2 is also very easily updated to support the 2.4 kernel and already has an rpm for 2.2.19. It is based on Redhat 6.2 ( Not 7. No compilation problems ). The only problem is that it requires at least a 586 or greater. Anything above a 486 should do. HTH, sim From sraun at fireopal.org Sat May 19 23:01:02 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More on Apache & Virtual Hosting In-Reply-To: <20010516205013.A28754@iaxs.net>; from sraun@fireopal.org on Wed, May 16, 2001 at 08:50:13PM -0500 References: <20010516205013.A28754@iaxs.net> Message-ID: <20010519230102.A7450@iaxs.net> On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 08:50:13PM -0500, Scott Raun wrote: > For those of you who have NameVirtualHost working - what version of > Apache are you running? > > One of the things to come out of my query to debian-users is that the > new virtual hosting rules were implemented at about version 1.3.14, > and I'm running 1.3.9. I've got it working. And it was a really dumb mistake. I'm running DSL, with my Cisco 675 doing NAT. The apache httpd daemon is NOT at IP address 209.134.132.36 - that's the Cisco's external IP address! The apache httpd daemon is at IP address 10.0.0.21 - the _internal_ IP address! Could someone please go to the two addresses - www.fireopal.org and www.ytilaer.com - and confirm for me that they're working? I can see them working from inside, but am not up to getting outside and back in to check. The pages are OBVIOUSLY different - you won't have to read past the first line. -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sat May 19 23:32:45 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More on Apache & Virtual Hosting In-Reply-To: <20010519230102.A7450@iaxs.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 May 2001, Scott Raun wrote: > Could someone please go to the two addresses - www.fireopal.org and > www.ytilaer.com - and confirm for me that they're working? I can go to both of them, and the pages that I get announce themselves as being the URL that I requested, so they aren't identical. I guess you're working there, guy. Darn, I'll miss this thread! :) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mccloud at wiredhot.net Sun May 20 02:06:49 2001 From: mccloud at wiredhot.net (Bob McCloud) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More on Apache & Virtual Hosting In-Reply-To: <20010519230102.A7450@iaxs.net> References: <20010516205013.A28754@iaxs.net>; from sraun@fireopal.org on Wed, May 16, 2001 at 08:50:13PM -0500 Message-ID: <3B0726B9.14394.2B5C232@localhost> On 19 May 2001, at 23:01, Scott Raun wrote: > > Could someone please go to the two addresses - www.fireopal.org and > www.ytilaer.com - and confirm for me that they're working? I see two different pages :) Bob From bradyh at bitstream.net Wed May 16 15:38:34 2001 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (Brady Hegberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ethernet problems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <990045515.13374.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> My Redhat 7.1 machine seems to be having a prob with its SMC Ultra card. It worked fine with 6 but now...well the machine can ping itself but it can't ping the other machine on the network. When I try I see the lights blink on the hub but nothing gets through... I see a bunch of these in "dmesg": NETDEV WATCHDOG: eth0: transmit timed out eth0: Tx timed out, lost interrupt? TSR=0x3, ISR=0x43, t=101. Any suggestions? I spent hours searching the web for this error yesterday and I couldn't find anything that seemed to apply to me. Brady From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sun May 20 11:28:04 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ethernet problems In-Reply-To: <990045515.13374.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On 16 May 2001, Brady Hegberg wrote: > My Redhat 7.1 machine seems to be having a prob with its SMC Ultra card. > It worked fine with 6 but now...well the machine can ping itself but it > can't ping the other machine on the network. When I try I see the > lights blink on the hub but nothing gets through... > > I see a bunch of these in "dmesg": > > NETDEV WATCHDOG: eth0: transmit timed out > eth0: Tx timed out, lost interrupt? TSR=0x3, ISR=0x43, t=101. I don't know why this would have changed when you upgraded, but I got similar errors when I tried to install a 3c509b in a Debian system on a new mahine. I ended up playing with the BIOS settings for reserved interrupts and PCI slots and all that fun stuff. Unfortunately, I can't be 100% sure that it didn't fix itself, so I don't want to say that's appropriate, esp. since you say the card used to work in the machine. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From andyzib at ringworld.org Sun May 20 14:00:06 2001 From: andyzib at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] all-in-one server/router deal References: <3B071426.3808CC67@eetc.com> Message-ID: <3B081436.7D3A0C17@ringworld.org> netfilter (iptables, kernel 2.4) or ipchains (kernel 2.2)? If you are using ipchains, check out http://plonk.sourceforge.net/ It's a good script for setting up a decent firewall and masq box. There is a aplha script from IPTables as well. I'm no expert, but I'd do something like deny all incoming connections on the external interface, then allow each service. Then allow forwarding of everything from the internal to the external. The script above will do a decent job of getting you up and running in no time. -- | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | This message is protected by double ROT13 | | encryption. Any attempt to circumvent the | | digital protection is banned by the DMCA. | -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: andyzib.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 2265 bytes Desc: Card for Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010520/5a6ab415/andyzib.vcf From jts at tc.umn.edu Sun May 20 14:31:18 2001 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slow list In-Reply-To: <200105192244.f4JMi2K25299@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: > The old farts like me have yard-work/outside projects/honey-do-lists. Anyone want to come over and help me dig up dandelions? Joel --- Member of the GNU/X/Apache/Perl/Samba/OpenSSH/Linux generation. From colin at tyr.med.umn.edu Sun May 20 14:37:42 2001 From: colin at tyr.med.umn.edu (Colin Kilbane) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slow list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You dont have to be an old fart to have lawn trouble. I dumped weed&feed on the lawn here at my frat house and everything died. 70% of our lawn was weeds. Funny thing is that all the dandylions have survived that and weedBgone. All I have is dead grass, dirt spots, and dandylions. Is this off topic or what.... Colin From p_c_troubleShooting at hotmail.com Sun May 20 15:04:15 2001 From: p_c_troubleShooting at hotmail.com (P.C. TroubleShooting - Owner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Orb Drives Message-ID: i want to buy 1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010520/f203cbaa/attachment.html From Ronin701 at lvcm.com Sun May 20 15:20:55 2001 From: Ronin701 at lvcm.com (Frank Severino) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (no subject) Message-ID: With reservation of rights, -Frank Severino "Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God." --Thomas Jefferson From seg at haxxed.com Sun May 20 15:58:12 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ethernet problems References: <990045515.13374.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3B082FE4.E117B5D0@haxxed.com> Brady Hegberg wrote: > > My Redhat 7.1 machine seems to be having a prob with its SMC Ultra card. > It worked fine with 6 but now...well the machine can ping itself but it > can't ping the other machine on the network. When I try I see the > lights blink on the hub but nothing gets through... > > I see a bunch of these in "dmesg": > > NETDEV WATCHDOG: eth0: transmit timed out > eth0: Tx timed out, lost interrupt? TSR=0x3, ISR=0x43, t=101. > > Any suggestions? I spent hours searching the web for this error > yesterday and I couldn't find anything that seemed to apply to me. Hmmm, I wonder... Could there be an IRQ sharing problem in kernel 2.4? I'm having problems getting a TV tuner card working in my machine. What with 3 video cards, sound, ethernet, video capture and the onboard ACPI and USB, (Wait, this may be it, why is ACPI enabled...) there's just not enough IRQ's to go around. (Thats 8!) As long as I keep the capture card off the IRQ of my primary AGP video card, everything works fine in windows. However with the video capture card plugged in, linux freaks out. I can boot into console mode, but as soon as X starts up, USB freaks out and shuts off, and so does my ethernet with a similar message. Leaving me without a mouse or a net connection. Though that sounds more like X making things freak out when it initialises the video cards now that I think of it. Wish there was a way to make the BIOS assign IRQ's to the AGP card (It won't work unless you do) but not to the PCI's (They don't need it). Blargh. Managing PCI IRQ's is like hearding cats. Big cats. Like lions. Yeah, thats it... From seg at haxxed.com Sun May 20 16:05:49 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] USB pigtails for cheap? Message-ID: <3B0831AD.926CC2C2@haxxed.com> Does anyone know a cheap source for those USB pigtail thingies for older AT style pentium motherboards that have a USB header on the board? I've seen them at Best Buy and such for like $30, but that seems rather pricey for just a USB plug. Anyone happen to know of a cheaper source? From colin at tyr.med.umn.edu Sun May 20 16:47:16 2001 From: colin at tyr.med.umn.edu (Colin Kilbane) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] USB pigtails for cheap? In-Reply-To: <3B0831AD.926CC2C2@haxxed.com> Message-ID: Try pi manufacturing at www.pimfg.com. They add 2 bucks to the order if it is under 100. Even then these people are the best deal on cables. Colin Kilbane From bbarnholtz at qwest.net Sun May 20 18:49:03 2001 From: bbarnholtz at qwest.net (Brian R. Barnholtz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Building my own Message-ID: <001601c0e187$7e430590$0200000a@bb2000> I am in the process of building my own linux system. I have a bootable linux kernel ona minimal ext2 filesystem and midnight commander. That is all. Now I want to add software, and do not have the make command. What software package would I need to install first, in order to run make? I thought it might be bin86 or gcc. Any suggestions. Also I have two kernels which I boot between. One displays the boot sequence and the other appears to be directed to a /dev/null. I have not been able to locate where I would change this. It must be in the kernel itself. Thanks In Advance Brian R. Barnholtz -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010520/ecefa4c5/attachment.htm From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Sun May 20 19:41:16 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Building my own In-Reply-To: <001601c0e187$7e430590$0200000a@bb2000> References: <001601c0e187$7e430590$0200000a@bb2000> Message-ID: <20010520194116.4b16fac8.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> "Brian R. Barnholtz" wrote: > > I am in the process of building my own linux system. I have a bootable > linux kernel ona minimal ext2 filesystem and midnight commander. That > is all. Now I want to add software, and do not have the make command. > What software package would I need to install first, in order to run > make? I thought it might be bin86 or gcc. Any suggestions. Also I > have two kernels which I boot between. One displays the boot sequence > and the other appears to be directed to a /dev/null. I have not been > able to locate where I would change this. It must be in the kernel > itself. Well, you need make to make make, so I'd get make. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Half the people you know / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ are below average. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From lxy at cloudnet.com Sun May 20 19:53:11 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] normalizing MP3s Message-ID: Is there any way I can normalize (aka set all to the same volume level) mp3s that I burn to CD? I'm using a script that reafds in an mp3 with mpg123 and pipes to to cdrecord. Very handy script, btw, it's in the cdrecord HOWTO. It bugs me that I take a pile of MP3s and they're all recorded at various levels. Is there anything I can do about this? -Brian From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sun May 20 20:16:56 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] normalizing MP3s In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 20 May 2001, Brian wrote: > Is there any way I can normalize (aka set all to the same volume > level) mp3s that I burn to CD? I'm using a script that reafds in an mp3 > with mpg123 and pipes to to cdrecord. Very handy script, btw, it's in the > cdrecord HOWTO. > > It bugs me that I take a pile of MP3s and they're all recorded at various > levels. Is there anything I can do about this? I'll give you a little algorithm that will make you happier, but you have to read my little spiel first. Honestly, I'm not being a wiseguy, but the answer is one form or other of "adjust the volume knob during playback." You can do that manually at 'run-time', or you can do it at 'compile-time.' The latter is all 'normalizing' is. The trouble is that perceived volume is *not* a function of peak level, but more of average, which is why the old VU meters are a lot better indication of how loud something is. Trouble is, digital audio only has so many numbers to use for storing the quantized amplitude of the waveform, so in that case you do need peak info. All normalizing does is find the absolute loudest peak, calculate the distance between that and the maximum allowable peak, and turn everything up by the same amount. So it's really possible to normalize two tracks and have the one that got turned up the most sound the softest. This is not just a problem with MP3s. I spent 15 years in the audio industry, and worked as a mastering engineer for the last part of it and it really became a problem with albums in general. Surprisingly few people, especially those that never had to record to analog, know how to get the balance and loudness to work *for* them. So, here's the algorithm. There is no way available that I know, except some broken code I'm writing, to do it except by ear and kinda manually. Play your mp3's and do not touch the volume setting anywhere. Go through them until you find the one that sounds the softest. Now turn everything else *down* until they match that. Now normalize the softest one, and add exactly the same amount of gain to all the others. You'll end up with a bunch of things that now sound like they are at the same level. You can burn 'em to disc. Your disc may be louder or softer than other discs, for the same reasons that you were having trouble with the mp3's in the first place, but at least you'll be consistent within that disc itself. (I won't bother with the explanation of why you're going to be losing fidelity by processing a decoded mp3. You'll just want to give up on using them if you care about it to that degree, anyway!) Hope that helps, Phil Mendelsohn Chief Engineer Hotdish Mastering -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From sraun at fireopal.org Sun May 20 20:55:40 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian Woody & XFree86 4 Message-ID: <20010520205539.A21360@iaxs.net> OK, how do I get my initial XF86Config-4 file? I can't find a auto-generator, or a set of sample files. Anyone have any suggestions? The docs claim there should be a XF86Setup or xf86config. I can't find either. -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From pc451 at yahoo.com Sun May 20 21:15:42 2001 From: pc451 at yahoo.com (Peter Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] normalizing MP3s In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010521021542.88256.qmail@web11106.mail.yahoo.com> --- Brian wrote: > It bugs me that I take a pile of MP3s and they're all recorded at > various > levels. Is there anything I can do about this? Well, I found a bit of a round-about way: you can convert your MP3s to WAVs, run the "normalize" program (http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~cvaill/normalize/), and then convert them back into MP3s. There is a script in the normalize package that will do this for you. Bad news, however: you will probably lose some quality in the process of decoding/encoding. However, for future reference, this sounds like the way to go if you are ripping new files. :Peter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From stauffer_james at yahoo.com Sun May 20 21:24:00 2001 From: stauffer_james at yahoo.com (James A. N. Stauffer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] normalizing MP3s In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010521022400.31984.qmail@web11507.mail.yahoo.com> I saw a winamp plugin that normalized the volume. That might help you get what you want. --- Brian wrote: > Is there any way I can normalize (aka set all to the same volume > level) mp3s that I burn to CD? I'm using a script that reafds in an mp3 > with mpg123 and pipes to to cdrecord. Very handy script, btw, it's in > the > cdrecord HOWTO. > > It bugs me that I take a pile of MP3s and they're all recorded at various > levels. Is there anything I can do about this? ===== = o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ _____=======_||___ o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | | Stauffer_James | .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | | @yahoo.com | >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|________________| _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o¬o¬o o¬o¬o` 'o¬o o¬o` __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From pc451 at yahoo.com Sun May 20 21:33:28 2001 From: pc451 at yahoo.com (Peter Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Buying stuff listed at pricewatch.com Message-ID: <20010521023328.91700.qmail@web11106.mail.yahoo.com> So I'm in the middle of building a brand new box. Being the poor student that I am, with a wife who is tolerant so long as I don't get spendy, I'm interested in getting good, high quality, but cheap parts. Take, for instance, a GeForce2 MX. At Tran, it's $99.99 and at General Nano, $89.99, last I checked. However, I have found it going for about $50-$55 (plus $10-$15 s+h) through Pricewatch. That's a savings of $20-$30 dollars. However, remembering the famous triade (Good, Fast, Cheap, pick two), I'm wondering if I might be buying a lemon. Some of them offer one year insurance, which sounds safer, but I would like to test the collected wisdom of the group for advice. Thanks! :Peter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Sun May 20 21:54:07 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Buying stuff listed at pricewatch.com In-Reply-To: <20010521023328.91700.qmail@web11106.mail.yahoo.com>; from pc451@yahoo.com on Sun, May 20, 2001 at 07:33:28PM -0700 References: <20010521023328.91700.qmail@web11106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010520215407.K28763@ringworld.org> * Peter Clark [010520 21:35]: > $20-$30 dollars. However, remembering the famous triade (Good, Fast, > Cheap, pick two), I'm wondering if I might be buying a lemon. Some of > them offer one year insurance, which sounds safer, but I would like to Buy local, or all parts from one reputable online vendor. Many of the 'cheapest' on pricewatch are notorius for being the worst in 'businessman-ship' i guess. its happend to me where its just too much of a pita, and its eaiser to buy local. (or all from one vendor) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010520/3cabf9ad/attachment.pgp From andyzib at ringworld.org Sun May 20 22:26:59 2001 From: andyzib at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian Woody & XFree86 4 References: <20010520205539.A21360@iaxs.net> Message-ID: <3B088B03.588B33B@ringworld.org> dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 -- | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | This message is protected by double ROT13 | | encryption. Any attempt to circumvent the | | digital protection is banned by the DMCA. | -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: andyzib.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 2265 bytes Desc: Card for Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010520/532594a8/andyzib.vcf From hibuilding at kimo.com.tw Sun May 20 22:40:20 2001 From: hibuilding at kimo.com.tw (Jimmy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ¶RÆp¥Û§O·í­Þ¤jÀY Message-ID: <200105210338.LAA12361@taipei.tecom.com.tw> ?R?p???O?????j?Y --- ?@?w???o?????T?? ?????????B?? ?s?i-- ?????O?p???S?????? ???X???? ?\?h?H?????????????@???G???p?? ???O?????@?????a?o?????????? ?K?O?H???????R?? ?????a???Q?R?]?????D?????B?R?????O?? ???e?]?????B?????n ?????M?x?_???U???W???p?????a?B???f?p???M?d?B?j?p???? ?K?K..???B?X?? ?]???????a?{???????O?j?????L?y ?????????O?S?? ?u?O???Q?????j?Y ???????????t?W???H ?z?L?B???????@???L?h?b???W?p?????a?u?@???B?? ???????j?L???f???p???]?p?u?t ???????u?t???p?w?@ ?A???H?? ?q?u?t???f?????a????????1-3?? ?P???????? ?P?????????O???? ?P?????????A?? ?????h??1-3?????????????b???a?????C?B?s?i?????P?????~?????P?W ?p?G?z???n?R???p?? ?]???B?B?y???B???Q?B???????^ ?????z?i?????????X???A???????G???W?s???p?????B???????B???f?M?d ?B?@??????.............?? ???@?I???? ???????o ?C?a?p?????????W?????]?p?u?t ?????o?a?p???u?t?w???T?Q?~?????v ?N?z DeBeers ?^?p???????]?p?s?@ ???????o????50?a?p???M?d?? ???~?????W?C?I ???x?_?B?????U???@?B???????s?? ?????K?b?????s?i ?z?i?H?q 0958-300360 ???d?p?j ???? ?]?o?H??NICE?^ ???????????R?@??57?? ???A E ?? ?b?? VVS1 DIA?????O???? De Beers ?????p???? ?H5?U5?d???o ?e?X???a?? ???? ?p???s???W?? ???R???P?????A???p?j?????????n12?U ???L???? ???b?O???R???? ????2?U5?d?R35?? ?w?^?n??F???? DIA?????O???? ???????????p?g?????????G ?@?B???y?r?p?z?O???^?n?b???x?????~?G?r?p???o???~???^?n?b???x?W???p?????O?????~?A???D?^?n???p?????????O???????w?C ?G?B?n?b?????????u?]?????O?^?U???????b?????W???p?????m?A?V???V?o?G?~???V?n?A?\?h???a???b?i???d?W?O???????g?O?A?????O???L?k???????b???C ?T?B?@?w?n?V???a??10???H?W???j?????????p???????b???C ?|?B?C???g???????w?????p???b?????????????s???A?P?????O???????s?????P?A???g???w?L???p?????????Q???~?????O???A?@?????a???}???????w?????????????H?O?C ???B?????x?n???t?????????????????A?G???}?G?w???????????C ???B?O???R?????p?A???p?????Y?i???X???A???A?{?b?]?S???????????p?F?H?]?]???F???F?H?^?A???p?p?????u?p???]?@???N???D?? ?O?u?p ?X?d???X?????N?i???o?A???u?????????s?y?? 90%?????M?p?????????u?p???Q?A?u???b?????????????~???????C ?i???\???T?G ?y???@???R?]?_?N?W???z--?????????X?? ?C199 ???b?????????s ???@???????? ???????j?Y ?p???H?H?R?o?_ -?R?p???O?????j?Y From sraun at fireopal.org Sun May 20 22:42:31 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian Woody & XFree86 4 In-Reply-To: <3B088B03.588B33B@ringworld.org>; from andyzib@ringworld.org on Sun, May 20, 2001 at 10:26:59PM -0500 References: <20010520205539.A21360@iaxs.net> <3B088B03.588B33B@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <20010520224231.A22334@iaxs.net> On Sun, May 20, 2001 at 10:26:59PM -0500, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 Care to give me a hint as to what replaced "startx"? And where can I _find_ this information? -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From mpaulsen at charter.net Sun May 20 23:07:23 2001 From: mpaulsen at charter.net (Mike Paulsen) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Buying stuff listed at pricewatch.com In-Reply-To: <20010521023328.91700.qmail@web11106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010520230231.024a2b20@pop.charter.net> At 09:33 PM 5/20/01, Peter wrote: > However, I have found it going for about >$50-$55 (plus $10-$15 s+h) through Pricewatch. That's a savings of >$20-$30 dollars. However, remembering the famous triade (Good, Fast, >Cheap, pick two), I'm wondering if I might be buying a lemon. If you're going to use pricewatch you may also want to consider using (and contributing to) www.resellerratings.com. From fritchie at mr.net Sun May 20 23:17:14 2001 From: fritchie at mr.net (Scott Lystig Fritchie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] normalizing MP3s In-Reply-To: Message of "Sun, 20 May 2001 19:15:42 PDT." <20010521021542.88256.qmail@web11106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200105210417.f4L4HEb90934@snookles.snookles.com> I was about to chime in with what I've been using to normalize digital audio files ... and then I read this: >>>>> "pc" == Peter Clark writes: pc> Well, I found a bit of a round-about way: you can convert your pc> MP3s to WAVs, run the "normalize" program pc> (http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~cvaill/normalize/), and then convert pc> them back into MP3s. Ah! I've been looking for something less GUI-intensive and more Linux/UNIX friendly. I've been using Cool Edit 96 under Windows for normalizing audio. (I even paid up for the "full version. It was dirt cheap, and well worth the money.) It works quite well, but, well, it's a point-and-click interface under Windows. -Scott --- Scott Lystig Fritchie Professional Governing: Is It Faked? From scanman at mninter.net Mon May 21 00:26:06 2001 From: scanman at mninter.net (ScanMan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Buying stuff listed at pricewatch.com References: <20010521023328.91700.qmail@web11106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B08A6EE.2000708@mninter.net> I have had good experience with Computer Gate: www.computergate.com Peter Clark wrote: > So I'm in the middle of building a brand new box. Being the poor >student that I am, with a wife who is tolerant so long as I don't get >spendy, I'm interested in getting good, high quality, but cheap parts. >Take, for instance, a GeForce2 MX. At Tran, it's $99.99 and at General >Nano, $89.99, last I checked. However, I have found it going for about >$50-$55 (plus $10-$15 s+h) through Pricewatch. That's a savings of >$20-$30 dollars. However, remembering the famous triade (Good, Fast, >Cheap, pick two), I'm wondering if I might be buying a lemon. Some of >them offer one year insurance, which sounds safer, but I would like to >test the collected wisdom of the group for advice. > Thanks! > :Peter > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices >http://auctions.yahoo.com/ >_______________________________________________ >tclug-list mailing list >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From scanman at mninter.net Mon May 21 00:29:15 2001 From: scanman at mninter.net (ScanMan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian Woody & XFree86 4 References: <20010520205539.A21360@iaxs.net> <3B088B03.588B33B@ringworld.org> <20010520224231.A22334@iaxs.net> Message-ID: <3B08A7AB.9050109@mninter.net> I don't know what's up with the Debian packages, but you should probably just install the binary packages at www.xfree86.org. Then just rin xf86config, and startx. Scott Raun wrote: >On Sun, May 20, 2001 at 10:26:59PM -0500, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > >>dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 >> > >Care to give me a hint as to what replaced "startx"? And where can I >_find_ this information? > From brian at ghostreactor.com Mon May 21 00:38:40 2001 From: brian at ghostreactor.com (Brian Riesgraf) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Buying stuff listed at pricewatch.com References: <20010521023328.91700.qmail@web11106.mail.yahoo.com> <3B08A6EE.2000708@mninter.net> Message-ID: <000801c0e1b8$4aa17060$6401a8c0@mn.rr.com> Hey, you can get a Geforce 2 GTS (32 megs of DDR) for $150 OEM off pricewatch right now. The Asus v770 Pure (no video out) goes for that much. They are a steal right now w/ the geforce 3's comming out. I defintly recommend getting one at that price. ----- Original Message ----- From: "ScanMan" To: Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 12:26 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Buying stuff listed at pricewatch.com > I have had good experience with Computer Gate: www.computergate.com > > Peter Clark wrote: > > > So I'm in the middle of building a brand new box. Being the poor > >student that I am, with a wife who is tolerant so long as I don't get > >spendy, I'm interested in getting good, high quality, but cheap parts. > >Take, for instance, a GeForce2 MX. At Tran, it's $99.99 and at General > >Nano, $89.99, last I checked. However, I have found it going for about > >$50-$55 (plus $10-$15 s+h) through Pricewatch. That's a savings of > >$20-$30 dollars. However, remembering the famous triade (Good, Fast, > >Cheap, pick two), I'm wondering if I might be buying a lemon. Some of > >them offer one year insurance, which sounds safer, but I would like to > >test the collected wisdom of the group for advice. > > Thanks! > > :Peter > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > >http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > >_______________________________________________ > >tclug-list mailing list > >tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From zibby at ringworld.org Mon May 21 08:32:29 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian Woody & XFree86 4 In-Reply-To: <3B08A7AB.9050109@mninter.net> Message-ID: > I don't know what's up with the Debian packages, but you should probably > just install the binary packages at www.xfree86.org. Then just rin > xf86config, and startx. What? Why? Everything you need is allready packaged...you make no sense at all. >dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 > >Care to give me a hint as to what replaced "startx"? And where can I >_find_ this information? Nothing has replaced startx, make sure the xbase-clients package is installed (apt-cache search and dpkg --search are your friends. :). Also make sure that /usr/X11R6/bin is in your PATH. As for where to find this information, It should be in the documentation, but given that woody is pre-felease quality, the push for updating documentation hasn't come around yet. That push will come in the final stages of the code freeze. :) Currently the best place to find information on unstable and testing is #debian on irc.openprojects.net. Ask the crowd, but apt the infobot, read the topic and /msg apt news. You should also try installing task-x-window-system-core and task-x-window-system just to make sure you have everything. | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From zibby at ringworld.org Mon May 21 08:56:16 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian Woody & XFree86 4 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > but given that woody is pre-felease quality, the push for updating Oh how I love typing e-mail when my connection to the server is dropping packets. :) | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From ben at nerp.net Mon May 21 09:02:36 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian Woody & XFree86 4 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- but that's how you talk all the time anyway ;) blah krankor Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Mon, 21 May 2001, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > > but given that woody is pre-felease quality, the push for updating > > Oh how I love typing e-mail when my connection to the server is dropping > packets. :) > > | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | > | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | > | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | > | His power apparently lies in his ability to | > | choose incompetent enemies. | > | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOwkf/stpDhsSpvgtAQGdWAP/VwH++AK8j5UDMm83yX4/BBSi87dZhYLs N7Ba1mZJZi+8alUbs4NjElWXzxXpoRG2MMUOwisBqrD0oJRl3meSZSKzIntHYWc8 7GCq9FiZbBwp82abh1Vygajhwju04axaOR2L8hCe2KdorahaDPjToWle2TDkl35L w3+HhkmHYFY= =VSbs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From m_nassar at yahoo.com Mon May 21 09:07:24 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] dhcp server on a floppy In-Reply-To: <20010519183104.37421.qmail@web10104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010521140724.35173.qmail@web10101.mail.yahoo.com> anyone know of a DHCP server on a floppy that will work with integrated Intel NICs, i tried FreeSCO and it would not recognize the network card even after i assigned an IRQ and IO address... any ideas? -munir ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From natecars at real-time.com Mon May 21 09:18:19 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] all-in-one server/router deal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 19 May 2001, Brian wrote: > I just got my cable modem up and running. My plan is to plug a linux box > into the cable modem as a router and have multiple boxen behind it. I > also want to run Apache, sendmail, IRC, SSH, and a few other services on > it. The problem is firewalling. I like to write TIGHT scripts (after > being comprimised once I'm a little over-paranoid) by opening up just the > service I need and DENYing any other packet from any source that's not on > my specific guest list. > > The problem here is that everything inside the router gets blocked. ICQ, > Napster, and a plethora of other oddball IP apps stop working because I've > firewalled them out, but I don't want people breaking into my router. Is > there a good way to run this setup? If you allow 1024: -> 1024: without the SYN bit set (! -y in ipchains; can't remember in iptables), and make SURE you don't have any services running on 1024+ on your firewall (MySQL is a good example), you are genereally pretty safe. This (along with the proper masquerading modules in 2.2, or the stateful module in 2.4) will allow most of those to work. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From zibby at ringworld.org Mon May 21 09:18:57 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian Woody & XFree86 4 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 21 May 2001, Ben Kochie wrote: > but that's how you talk all the time anyway ;) Shootoop yuoo. I telk leeke-a thees. Bork Bork Bork! | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From blayer at qwest.net Mon May 21 09:19:44 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] dhcp server on a floppy In-Reply-To: <20010521140724.35173.qmail@web10101.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010519183104.37421.qmail@web10104.mail.yahoo.com> <20010521140724.35173.qmail@web10101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010521091944.73241377.blayer@qwest.net> On Mon, 21 May 2001 07:07:24 -0700 (PDT) "Munir Nassar" wrote: > anyone know of a DHCP server on a floppy that will > work with integrated Intel NICs, i tried FreeSCO and > it would not recognize the network card even after i > assigned an IRQ and IO address... Doesn't floppyfw (www.freshmeat.net) have a module for dhcpd ? -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From ben at nerp.net Mon May 21 09:28:38 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] dhcp server on a floppy In-Reply-To: <20010521140724.35173.qmail@web10101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- check out the linux router project.. official site: http://www.linuxrouter.org/ good info: http://lrp.c0wz.com/ Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Mon, 21 May 2001, Munir Nassar wrote: > anyone know of a DHCP server on a floppy that will > work with integrated Intel NICs, i tried FreeSCO and > it would not recognize the network card even after i > assigned an IRQ and IO address... > > any ideas? > > -munir > > ===== > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version: 3.12 > GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOwkmF8tpDhsSpvgtAQFvGAP/XbTeCwsc1PkniJXhDYnqH00ICaB0BG0I 0izwwQBodD1As7FVVUQoeO3UhzVu8Tyg2BgdyPQq3bnTyEJCrYVXsq+3U+RIhFni cmQBKyPQtwbzoftSFKErDPKBR5sscFr0UHVdceFj7VBLKs+BxCaZANyWsgaXOXsv 3HSIoyPR+/Y= =s+Ex -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon May 21 10:05:04 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] all-in-one server/router deal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 21 May 2001, Nate Carlson wrote: > > If you allow 1024: -> 1024: without the SYN bit set (! -y in ipchains; > can't remember in iptables), and make SURE you don't have any services > running on 1024+ on your firewall (MySQL is a good example), you are > genereally pretty safe. > > This (along with the proper masquerading modules in 2.2, or the stateful > module in 2.4) will allow most of those to work. After digging into it, I have 2 options to keep it working and keep me somewhat sane. One is to upgrade to kernel 2.4 (a splendid idea no matter how you look at it) and use IPtables which I understand does the stateful stuff for me. Or maybe that was in *BSD. The other option is to loosen up my firewall a bit. I realized that all my paranoia was launched by inetd anyway so a nice ALL:ALL in hosts.deny should lock me down tight enough. Sendmail, Apache, and SSH stay wide open while all services on the box are TCP wrappered and therefore no need for any ipchains -j DENY rules. With the possible exception of ICMP, I like turning that off for paranoia purposes. So, in a nutshell, I'll end up installing Debian :-). -Brian From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Mon May 21 10:08:46 2001 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (Jim Kaufman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ethernet problems In-Reply-To: <3B082FE4.E117B5D0@haxxed.com>; from seg@haxxed.com on Sun, May 20, 2001 at 03:58:12PM -0500 References: <990045515.13374.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3B082FE4.E117B5D0@haxxed.com> Message-ID: <20010521100846.A6612@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> On Sun, May 20, 2001 at 03:58:12PM -0500, Callum Lerwick wrote: > Brady Hegberg wrote: > > > > My Redhat 7.1 machine seems to be having a prob with its SMC Ultra card. > > It worked fine with 6 but now...well the machine can ping itself but it > > can't ping the other machine on the network. When I try I see the > > lights blink on the hub but nothing gets through... > > > > I see a bunch of these in "dmesg": > > > > NETDEV WATCHDOG: eth0: transmit timed out > > eth0: Tx timed out, lost interrupt? TSR=0x3, ISR=0x43, t=101. > > > > Any suggestions? I spent hours searching the web for this error > > yesterday and I couldn't find anything that seemed to apply to me. > > Hmmm, I wonder... Could there be an IRQ sharing problem in kernel 2.4? > > I'm having problems getting a TV tuner card working in my machine. What > with 3 video cards, sound, ethernet, video capture and the onboard ACPI > and USB, (Wait, this may be it, why is ACPI enabled...) there's just not > enough IRQ's to go around. (Thats 8!) As long as I keep the capture card > off the IRQ of my primary AGP video card, everything works fine in > windows. However with the video capture card plugged in, linux freaks > out. I can boot into console mode, but as soon as X starts up, USB > freaks out and shuts off, and so does my ethernet with a similar > message. Leaving me without a mouse or a net connection. > > Though that sounds more like X making things freak out when it > initialises the video cards now that I think of it. Wish there was a way > to make the BIOS assign IRQ's to the AGP card (It won't work unless you > do) but not to the PCI's (They don't need it). > > Blargh. Managing PCI IRQ's is like hearding cats. Big cats. Like lions. > Yeah, thats it... > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list My setup is a bit simpler, but I do have a video card and a TV tuner card. I spent time to ensure that the two used different IRQs, but no matter how I confired the BIOS Linux insisted on sharing the same IRQ (5) between the video and the TV tuner. Anyway, it works fine. I can watch TV, while also using Win4Lin to balance my books using Quicken. Perhaps that's part of it. Although I updated most everything on my system to Redhat 7.1, I'm still running a 2.2.19 kernel. --- Jim Kaufman mailto:jmk@kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us home: 952-934-4851 Eden Prairie, MN 55346 fax: 952-937-9832 From austad at marketwatch.com Mon May 21 10:34:07 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] normalizing MP3s Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807B5@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Keep in mind that converting from MP3 -> WAV -> MP3 is going to dramatically reduce the quality of the resulting MP3. Essentially, you're encoding the audio file with lossy compression, and then compressing it again with lossy compression. You're probably going to hear some static or popping sounds in your resulting file. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Lystig Fritchie [mailto:fritchie@mr.net] > Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 11:17 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] normalizing MP3s > > > I was about to chime in with what I've been using to normalize digital > audio files ... and then I read this: > > >>>>> "pc" == Peter Clark writes: > > pc> Well, I found a bit of a round-about way: you can convert your > pc> MP3s to WAVs, run the "normalize" program > pc> (http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~cvaill/normalize/), and then convert > pc> them back into MP3s. > > Ah! I've been looking for something less GUI-intensive and more > Linux/UNIX friendly. I've been using Cool Edit 96 under Windows for > normalizing audio. (I even paid up for the "full version. It was > dirt cheap, and well worth the money.) It works quite well, but, > well, it's a point-and-click interface under Windows. > > -Scott > --- > Scott Lystig Fritchie > Professional Governing: Is It Faked? > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Mon May 21 10:43:38 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] normalizing MP3s In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807B5@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 May 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > Keep in mind that converting from MP3 -> WAV -> MP3 is going to dramatically > reduce the quality of the resulting MP3. Essentially, you're encoding the > audio file with lossy compression, and then compressing it again with lossy > compression. You're probably going to hear some static or popping sounds in > your resulting file. This is true. You are really not supposed to process anything after mp3, period -- it's only designed as a final delivery format. But that's not what I thought we were talking about. When the original poster (Brian?) said he wanted to put the files on CD, I thought he meant CD-Audio, not CD-ROM with mp3 files. Changing volume on decoded MP3 is a hack, but recoding them is a No-No (unless you just don't care, or are listening on the apron at the Air Nat'l Guard.) To be clear, if the question was how to change the volume of an encoded file, no -- there's no way to do that. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon May 21 10:50:14 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] normalizing MP3s In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807B5@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 May 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > Keep in mind that converting from MP3 -> WAV -> MP3 is going to dramatically > reduce the quality of the resulting MP3. Essentially, you're encoding the > audio file with lossy compression, and then compressing it again with lossy > compression. You're probably going to hear some static or popping sounds in > your resulting file. I figured as much. Basically what everyone's been telling me is kinda what I thought. Looks like my best option would be to take all my MP3s, play them through a nice dbx compressor to WAV files, and then burn them. What I've discovered is that for the most part, albums are all normalized across the tracks (as they should be). Last night I burned a CD with several cuts by multiple artists, and I noticed that on the first track I set the volume, it's good through the rest of that artists's tracks until the next artist, then I adjust, and all of their songs are good. So much for making it as painless as possible :-) From austad at marketwatch.com Mon May 21 11:00:40 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Buying stuff listed at pricewatch.com Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807B8@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Generally, if I'm just buying one component, I go to pricescan.com to find the best price. However, you'll notice on pricescan.com that thenerds.net and mwave.com are consistently towards the top of the list for best prices. If I'm building a whole system, I'll buy everything from one of these two vendors to save on shipping, and then go down to Tran Micro to buy memory (Micron PC133 CAS2 256MB sticks for $57). Apparently MSI is releasing their Dual Athlon board on June 4th, so I'm going to wait for that, or try to get a Tyan 760MP when they're available. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Dier [mailto:dieman+tclug@ringworld.org] > Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 9:54 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Buying stuff listed at pricewatch.com > > > * Peter Clark [010520 21:35]: > > $20-$30 dollars. However, remembering the famous triade (Good, Fast, > > Cheap, pick two), I'm wondering if I might be buying a > lemon. Some of > > them offer one year insurance, which sounds safer, but I > would like to > > Buy local, or all parts from one reputable online vendor. Many of the > 'cheapest' on pricewatch are notorius for being the worst in > 'businessman-ship' i guess. its happend to me where its just too much > of a pita, and its eaiser to buy local. (or all from one vendor) > > -- > Scott Dier > http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net > > So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant > From veldy at veldy.net Mon May 21 11:04:50 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] normalizing MP3s References: Message-ID: <00b801c0e20f$c41940b0$3028680a@tgt.com> It should be done during the initial encoding process. There is plenty of audio editing software that will do that for you. Just do it BEFORE the lossy MP3 algorithm is applied. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Mendelsohn" To: Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 10:43 AM Subject: RE: [TCLUG] normalizing MP3s > On Mon, 21 May 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > > > Keep in mind that converting from MP3 -> WAV -> MP3 is going to dramatically > > reduce the quality of the resulting MP3. Essentially, you're encoding the > > audio file with lossy compression, and then compressing it again with lossy > > compression. You're probably going to hear some static or popping sounds in > > your resulting file. > > This is true. You are really not supposed to process anything after mp3, > period -- it's only designed as a final delivery format. But that's not > what I thought we were talking about. When the original poster > (Brian?) said he wanted to put the files on CD, I thought he meant > CD-Audio, not CD-ROM with mp3 files. Changing volume on decoded MP3 is a > hack, but recoding them is a No-No (unless you just don't care, or are > listening on the apron at the Air Nat'l Guard.) > > To be clear, if the question was how to change the volume of an encoded > file, no -- there's no way to do that. > > -- > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From dopp at acm.cs.umn.edu Mon May 21 11:11:47 2001 From: dopp at acm.cs.umn.edu (dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Buying stuff listed at pricewatch.com In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807B8@mspexch1.office.mktw.net>; from austad@marketwatch.com on Mon, May 21, 2001 at 11:00:40AM -0500 References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807B8@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20010521111147.A13017@sorry.cs.umn.edu> I have to agree here. I buy just about everything from mwave, except memory, which I get from Tran Micro. One thing I like about mwave, expecially if I'm building a full system, is they give you discounts if you order processors and mobos together. You're usually able to save $20-$50 by buying a proc/mobo combo there, and you can pair any CPU they have with any compatible mobo they have, so it's not like you're locked in to certain brands, or anything. Gabe On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 11:00:40AM -0500, Austad, Jay wrote: > Generally, if I'm just buying one component, I go to pricescan.com to find > the best price. However, you'll notice on pricescan.com that thenerds.net > and mwave.com are consistently towards the top of the list for best prices. > If I'm building a whole system, I'll buy everything from one of these two > vendors to save on shipping, and then go down to Tran Micro to buy memory > (Micron PC133 CAS2 256MB sticks for $57). > > Apparently MSI is releasing their Dual Athlon board on June 4th, so I'm > going to wait for that, or try to get a Tyan 760MP when they're available. > > Jay > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Scott Dier [mailto:dieman+tclug@ringworld.org] > > Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 9:54 PM > > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Buying stuff listed at pricewatch.com > > > > > > * Peter Clark [010520 21:35]: > > > $20-$30 dollars. However, remembering the famous triade (Good, Fast, > > > Cheap, pick two), I'm wondering if I might be buying a > > lemon. Some of > > > them offer one year insurance, which sounds safer, but I > > would like to > > > > Buy local, or all parts from one reputable online vendor. Many of the > > 'cheapest' on pricewatch are notorius for being the worst in > > 'businessman-ship' i guess. its happend to me where its just too much > > of a pita, and its eaiser to buy local. (or all from one vendor) > > > > -- > > Scott Dier > > http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net > > > > So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gabe Turner | X-President, UNIX Systems Administrator, | Assoc. for Computing Machinery U of M Supercomputing Institute for | University of Minnesohta Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation | dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu "Did I ever tell you about the Tooth Beaver, Ren? Wherever you have nerve endings, you'll find the Tooth Beaver! ... The nerve endings are the tastiest part of your body, and your Tooth Beaver knows this." - Stimpson J. Cat in "Ren's Toothache" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From blayer at qwest.net Mon May 21 11:32:12 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 7.2 .iso images available In-Reply-To: <20010521022400.31984.qmail@web11507.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010521022400.31984.qmail@web11507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010521113212.1bd30cce.blayer@qwest.net> I've made a pair of unofficial .iso images of Slackware 7.2 (current 20MAY2001) in case anyone is interested in them. If you want to put them up on gladiator, by all means. Disk 1 - (475MB) bootdisks12, bootdisks144, rootdisks, kernels, doc, contrib, modules Disk 2 - (554MB) slackware package sets (the main install archive) Let me know, -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon May 21 11:41:52 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] normalizing MP3s In-Reply-To: <00b801c0e20f$c41940b0$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 May 2001, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > It should be done during the initial encoding process. There is plenty of > audio editing software that will do that for you. Just do it BEFORE the > lossy MP3 algorithm is applied. Unfortunately that's not possible so as I thought, I'm SOL once the MP3s are encoded otherwise they'll sound like crap. My goal in this was to make a painless procedure so the less knowledgeable people on my network can make audio CDs from their MP3s and not have to know anything more than "I put this blank CD here, I move some files here, and 20 minutes later my CD comes out". I was hoping there was compression options in mpg123 that would help me, but I guess not. Thanks for the help guys! -Brian From blayer at qwest.net Mon May 21 11:43:19 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Buying stuff listed at pricewatch.com In-Reply-To: <20010521111147.A13017@sorry.cs.umn.edu> References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807B8@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> <20010521111147.A13017@sorry.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010521114319.31ad36de.blayer@qwest.net> On Mon, 21 May 2001 11:11:47 -0500 dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu wrote: > I have to agree here. I buy just about everything from mwave, > mwave has been very good to me in the past, but just recently I had a great experience with avlogic (www.avlogic.com). Ordered a Yamaha CDR2100E (16x10x40) online, they had the best price on the net ($139.00). It shipped later that day, was trackable that evening and it arrived 5 business days later as ordered. Good deal. -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From dd-b at dd-b.net Mon May 21 11:53:26 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] normalizing MP3s In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Phil Mendelsohn writes: > The trouble is that perceived volume is *not* a function of peak level, > but more of average, which is why the old VU meters are a lot better > indication of how loud something is. Trouble is, digital audio only has > so many numbers to use for storing the quantized amplitude of the > waveform, so in that case you do need peak info. Thanks. I sort-of knew this, but having it in more the correct technical terms helps, especially when discussing it with others :-) . Always glad to see explanations from people who actually understand the field they're explaining! -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From andy at theasis.com Mon May 21 06:57:12 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] normalizing MP3s In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Always glad to see explanations from people who actually understand > the field they're explaining! As long as you don't get spoiled and start expecting that to be the norm! Andy From sraun at fireopal.org Mon May 21 12:31:37 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian Woody & XFree86 4 In-Reply-To: ; from zibby@ringworld.org on Mon, May 21, 2001 at 08:32:29AM -0500 References: <3B08A7AB.9050109@mninter.net> Message-ID: <20010521123136.A28070@iaxs.net> Thanks Andy! I'll look at some more of this when I get home tonight. On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 08:32:29AM -0500, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > > I don't know what's up with the Debian packages, but you should probably > > just install the binary packages at www.xfree86.org. Then just rin > > xf86config, and startx. > > What? Why? Everything you need is allready packaged...you make no sense at > all. > > >dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 > > > >Care to give me a hint as to what replaced "startx"? And where can I > >_find_ this information? > > Nothing has replaced startx, make sure the xbase-clients package is > installed (apt-cache search and dpkg --search are your friends. :). > > Also make sure that /usr/X11R6/bin is in your PATH. > > As for where to find this information, It should be in the documentation, > but given that woody is pre-felease quality, the push for updating > documentation hasn't come around yet. That push will come in the final > stages of the code freeze. :) Currently the best place to find information > on unstable and testing is #debian on irc.openprojects.net. Ask the crowd, > but apt the infobot, read the topic and /msg apt news. > > You should also try installing task-x-window-system-core and > task-x-window-system just to make sure you have everything. > > | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | > | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | > | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | > | His power apparently lies in his ability to | > | choose incompetent enemies. | > | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From wilson at visi.com Mon May 21 12:40:15 2001 From: wilson at visi.com (Timothy Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] dhcp server on a floppy In-Reply-To: <20010521140724.35173.qmail@web10101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 May 2001, Munir Nassar wrote: > anyone know of a DHCP server on a floppy that will > work with integrated Intel NICs, i tried FreeSCO and > it would not recognize the network card even after i > assigned an IRQ and IO address... You might check out Coyote Linux at http://www.coyotelinux.com/ -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.org W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From austad at marketwatch.com Mon May 21 14:29:50 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] dhcp server on a floppy Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807C4@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Anyone tried Astaro? http://www.astaro.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Timothy Wilson [mailto:wilson@visi.com] > Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 12:40 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] dhcp server on a floppy > > > On Mon, 21 May 2001, Munir Nassar wrote: > > > anyone know of a DHCP server on a floppy that will > > work with integrated Intel NICs, i tried FreeSCO and > > it would not recognize the network card even after i > > assigned an IRQ and IO address... > > You might check out Coyote Linux at http://www.coyotelinux.com/ > > -Tim > > -- > Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: > Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.org > W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org > wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From thudak at sistina.com Mon May 21 14:52:03 2001 From: thudak at sistina.com (Tom Hudak) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 7.2 .iso images available In-Reply-To: <20010521113212.1bd30cce.blayer@qwest.net>; from blayer@qwest.net on Mon, May 21, 2001 at 11:32:12AM -0500 References: <20010521022400.31984.qmail@web11507.mail.yahoo.com> <20010521113212.1bd30cce.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <20010521145203.A5519@localhost> On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 11:32:12AM -0500, Bill Layer wrote: >I've made a pair of unofficial .iso images of Slackware 7.2 (current >20MAY2001) in case anyone is interested in them. If you want to put them >up on gladiator, by all means. > >Disk 1 - (475MB) bootdisks12, bootdisks144, rootdisks, kernels, doc, >contrib, modules >Disk 2 - (554MB) slackware package sets (the main install archive) > >Let me know, Hey cool, but uhh... I don't see them in /linux/misc_iso, /linux/slackware or anywhere else? What gives? Thanks, -- Thomas J. Hudak Systems Administrator Sistina Software Inc. - www.sistina.com Phone: 612.638.0500 x.513 Fax: 612.379.3952 Page: 612.318.1967 Key fingerprint = BEC6 3181 4C9B A7BB AF11 4717 6F85 B346 380D 523E sleep: Command not found - The story of my life... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010521/f050d640/attachment.pgp From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Mon May 21 16:00:15 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Buying stuff listed at pricewatch.com In-Reply-To: <000801c0e1b8$4aa17060$6401a8c0@mn.rr.com>; from brian@ghostreactor.com on Mon, May 21, 2001 at 12:38:40AM -0500 References: <20010521023328.91700.qmail@web11106.mail.yahoo.com> <3B08A6EE.2000708@mninter.net> <000801c0e1b8$4aa17060$6401a8c0@mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <20010521160015.P28763@ringworld.org> * Brian Riesgraf [010521 00:39]: > Hey, you can get a Geforce 2 GTS (32 megs of DDR) for $150 OEM off > pricewatch right now. The Asus v770 Pure (no video out) goes for that much. > They are a steal right now w/ the geforce 3's comming out. I defintly > recommend getting one at that price. Just to think, I bought one for 2x that last summer :) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010521/fc055d13/attachment.pgp From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Mon May 21 16:02:25 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Buying stuff listed at pricewatch.com In-Reply-To: <20010521114319.31ad36de.blayer@qwest.net>; from blayer@qwest.net on Mon, May 21, 2001 at 11:43:19AM -0500 References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807B8@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> <20010521111147.A13017@sorry.cs.umn.edu> <20010521114319.31ad36de.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <20010521160225.Q28763@ringworld.org> * Bill Layer [010521 11:47]: > mwave has been very good to me in the past, but just recently I had a > great experience with avlogic (www.avlogic.com). Ordered a Yamaha CDR2100E And, if you are getting sick of dealing with online vendors, theres allways General Nanosystems and Microcenter. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010521/192b1e75/attachment.pgp From blayer at qwest.net Mon May 21 16:10:43 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 7.2 .iso images available In-Reply-To: <20010521145203.A5519@localhost> References: <20010521022400.31984.qmail@web11507.mail.yahoo.com> <20010521113212.1bd30cce.blayer@qwest.net> <20010521145203.A5519@localhost> Message-ID: <20010521161043.76a8d6d4.blayer@qwest.net> On Mon, 21 May 2001 14:52:03 -0500 "Tom Hudak" wrote: > Hey cool, but uhh... I don't see them in /linux/misc_iso, /linux/slackware or > anywhere else? What gives? You didn't read my message ;) I didn't give a location, I asked if the folks who administer gladiator would be interested in putting them up. But here they are, I made them available over my DSL connection... http://frogtown.dynu.com/slackware/ Drill down to the iso directory. It's a slow (256K) upload, though... -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From cbidler at talkware.net Mon May 21 16:14:33 2001 From: cbidler at talkware.net (Helper Monkey) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Buying stuff listed at pricewatch.com References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807B8@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> <20010521111147.A13017@sorry.cs.umn.edu> <20010521114319.31ad36de.blayer@qwest.net> <20010521160225.Q28763@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <3B098539.4050706@talkware.net> Scott Dier wrote: >* Bill Layer [010521 11:47]: > >>mwave has been very good to me in the past, but just recently I had a >>great experience with avlogic (www.avlogic.com). Ordered a Yamaha CDR2100E >> > >And, if you are getting sick of dealing with online vendors, theres >allways General Nanosystems and Microcenter. > And Tran Micro. :) From m_nassar at yahoo.com Mon May 21 16:20:23 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] dhcp server on a floppy In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807C4@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20010521212023.27432.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com> thanks for the help guys, but since it is to be used only temporarily they opted for Vicomsoft(sp?) a shareware DHCP server that runs under winblows... but on the bright side, i showed them a little magic using GNU parted and they were(me too as i never used it before) impressed to say the least, i would only hope that they support NTFS and broken partition tables sometime in the future... -munir --- "Austad, Jay" wrote: > Anyone tried Astaro? http://www.astaro.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Timothy Wilson [mailto:wilson@visi.com] > > Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 12:40 PM > > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] dhcp server on a floppy > > > > > > On Mon, 21 May 2001, Munir Nassar wrote: > > > > > anyone know of a DHCP server on a floppy that > will > > > work with integrated Intel NICs, i tried FreeSCO > and > > > it would not recognize the network card even > after i > > > assigned an IRQ and IO address... > > > > You might check out Coyote Linux at > http://www.coyotelinux.com/ > > > > -Tim > > > > -- > > Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check > out: > > Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | > http://www.zope.org > > W. St. Paul, MN | | > http://slashdot.org > > wilson@visi.com | | > http://linux.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From blayer at qwest.net Mon May 21 16:19:25 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Buying stuff listed at pricewatch.com In-Reply-To: <3B098539.4050706@talkware.net> References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807B8@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> <20010521111147.A13017@sorry.cs.umn.edu> <20010521114319.31ad36de.blayer@qwest.net> <20010521160225.Q28763@ringworld.org> <3B098539.4050706@talkware.net> Message-ID: <20010521161925.2165dfa0.blayer@qwest.net> On Mon, 21 May 2001 16:14:33 -0500 "Helper Monkey" wrote: > >And, if you are getting sick of dealing with online vendors, theres > >allways General Nanosystems and Microcenter. > > > And Tran Micro. :) Heh, Tran wanted $100 more than I paid at avlogic.. a few bucks I can understand, but for that kind of money, I'll wait a week. Sure, it comes with Adaftech Sleazy-CD Creature, but who needs that? That app sucks even on Windows... Nero is so far ahead, no pun intended. -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From thefishyone at hotmail.com Mon May 21 16:45:12 2001 From: thefishyone at hotmail.com (Pizza of Hut) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kernel 2.4.x References: <20010521022400.31984.qmail@web11507.mail.yahoo.com><20010521113212.1bd30cce.blayer@qwest.net><20010521145203.A5519@localhost> <20010521161043.76a8d6d4.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: I heard somewhere (I can't remember where, sorry) that kernel versions 2.4 and up support blowmodems...er, I mean, WINmodems. =) Could any of you substantiate or refute this? BTW, no, I cannot try it out myself right now, as Linux is verboten in my house until the end of the term. =( From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Mon May 21 16:46:33 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Buying stuff listed at pricewatch.com In-Reply-To: <20010521161925.2165dfa0.blayer@qwest.net>; from blayer@qwest.net on Mon, May 21, 2001 at 04:19:25PM -0500 References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807B8@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> <20010521111147.A13017@sorry.cs.umn.edu> <20010521114319.31ad36de.blayer@qwest.net> <20010521160225.Q28763@ringworld.org> <3B098539.4050706@talkware.net> <20010521161925.2165dfa0.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <20010521164633.T28763@ringworld.org> * Bill Layer [010521 16:28]: > on Windows... Nero is so far ahead, no pun intended. You boot into windows! Heathen! -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010521/54484f43/attachment.pgp From dcsherman at qwest.net Mon May 21 16:49:52 2001 From: dcsherman at qwest.net (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kernel 2.4.x In-Reply-To: References: <20010521022400.31984.qmail@web11507.mail.yahoo.com> <20010521113212.1bd30cce.blayer@qwest.net> <20010521145203.A5519@localhost> <20010521161043.76a8d6d4.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010521164746.009f0140@pop.mpls.qwest.net> My winmodem runs fine under Mandrake 7.2 with kernel 2.2.17. You really just need a working driver, which the kernel will then load as a module. It depends on the winmodem, of course, as to whether a driver has been written. Check www.linmodems.org . Dave At 04:45 PM 05/21/2001 -0500, you wrote: >I heard somewhere (I can't remember where, sorry) that kernel versions 2.4 >and up support blowmodems...er, I mean, WINmodems. =) Could any of you >substantiate or refute this? > >BTW, no, I cannot try it out myself right now, as Linux is verboten in my >house until the end of the term. =( >_______________________________________________ >tclug-list mailing list >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list Dave Sherman Business Solutions Group, LLC "Quid quid latine dictum sit, webmaster@bsg-mn.com altum viditur." (763) 569-9839 From thefishyone at hotmail.com Mon May 21 16:59:20 2001 From: thefishyone at hotmail.com (Pizza of Hut) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kernel 2.4.x References: <20010521022400.31984.qmail@web11507.mail.yahoo.com> <20010521113212.1bd30cce.blayer@qwest.net> <20010521145203.A5519@localhost> <20010521161043.76a8d6d4.blayer@qwest.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20010521164746.009f0140@pop.mpls.qwest.net> Message-ID: K, thanks for the help. I'll check it out. ---------- The Fishy One's Infinite Wisdom #1: "If a 2000 pound gorilla asks you for your Rolex, by God, you give it to him!" New wisdom every week! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Sherman" To: Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 4:49 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Kernel 2.4.x > My winmodem runs fine under Mandrake 7.2 with kernel 2.2.17. You really > just need a working driver, which the kernel will then load as a module. It > depends on the winmodem, of course, as to whether a driver has been > written. Check www.linmodems.org . > > Dave > > At 04:45 PM 05/21/2001 -0500, you wrote: > >I heard somewhere (I can't remember where, sorry) that kernel versions 2.4 > >and up support blowmodems...er, I mean, WINmodems. =) Could any of you > >substantiate or refute this? > > > >BTW, no, I cannot try it out myself right now, as Linux is verboten in my > >house until the end of the term. =( > >_______________________________________________ > >tclug-list mailing list > >tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > Dave Sherman > Business Solutions Group, LLC "Quid quid latine dictum sit, > webmaster@bsg-mn.com altum viditur." > (763) 569-9839 > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From seg at haxxed.com Mon May 21 17:16:35 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 7.2 .iso images available References: <20010521022400.31984.qmail@web11507.mail.yahoo.com> <20010521113212.1bd30cce.blayer@qwest.net> <20010521145203.A5519@localhost> <20010521161043.76a8d6d4.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <3B0993C3.E9755405@haxxed.com> Bill Layer wrote: > > On Mon, 21 May 2001 14:52:03 -0500 > "Tom Hudak" wrote: > > > Hey cool, but uhh... I don't see them in /linux/misc_iso, > /linux/slackware or > > anywhere else? What gives? > > You didn't read my message ;) I didn't give a location, I asked if the > folks who administer gladiator would be interested in putting them up. But > here they are, I made them available over my DSL connection... > > http://frogtown.dynu.com/slackware/ > > Drill down to the iso directory. It's a slow (256K) upload, though... Whats wrong with whats in here? ftp://ftp.mn-linux.org/linux/slackware/slackware-7.1/iso/ And I am supposedly the slackware mirror admin. And my IP's changed so I can't ssh in to gladiator. And I've forgotton my slackware list admin password. BOB! :) From stauffer_james at yahoo.com Mon May 21 17:43:03 2001 From: stauffer_james at yahoo.com (James A. N. Stauffer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Buying stuff listed at pricewatch.com In-Reply-To: <20010521160225.Q28763@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <20010521224303.23381.qmail@web11508.mail.yahoo.com> URL for Microcenter? --- Scott Dier wrote: > * Bill Layer [010521 11:47]: > > mwave has been very good to me in the past, but just recently I had a > > great experience with avlogic (www.avlogic.com). Ordered a Yamaha > CDR2100E > > And, if you are getting sick of dealing with online vendors, theres > allways General Nanosystems and Microcenter. > > -- > Scott Dier > http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net > > So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant > > ATTACHMENT part 2 application/pgp-signature ===== = o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ _____=======_||___ o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | | Stauffer_James | .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | | @yahoo.com | >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|________________| _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o¬o¬o o¬o¬o` 'o¬o o¬o` __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From stauffer_james at yahoo.com Mon May 21 17:45:31 2001 From: stauffer_james at yahoo.com (James A. N. Stauffer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Buying stuff listed at pricewatch.com In-Reply-To: <3B098539.4050706@talkware.net> Message-ID: <20010521224531.41960.qmail@web11503.mail.yahoo.com> URL for Tran Micro? --- Helper Monkey wrote: > Scott Dier wrote: > > >* Bill Layer [010521 11:47]: > > > >>mwave has been very good to me in the past, but just recently I had a > >>great experience with avlogic (www.avlogic.com). Ordered a Yamaha > CDR2100E > >> > > > >And, if you are getting sick of dealing with online vendors, theres > >allways General Nanosystems and Microcenter. > > > And Tran Micro. :) > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ===== = o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ _____=======_||___ o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | | Stauffer_James | .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | | @yahoo.com | >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|________________| _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o¬o¬o o¬o¬o` 'o¬o o¬o` __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From thudak at sistina.com Mon May 21 17:46:58 2001 From: thudak at sistina.com (Tom Hudak) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 7.2 .iso images available In-Reply-To: <20010521161043.76a8d6d4.blayer@qwest.net>; from blayer@qwest.net on Mon, May 21, 2001 at 04:10:43PM -0500 References: <20010521022400.31984.qmail@web11507.mail.yahoo.com> <20010521113212.1bd30cce.blayer@qwest.net> <20010521145203.A5519@localhost> <20010521161043.76a8d6d4.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <20010521174658.B7189@localhost> On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 04:10:43PM -0500, Bill Layer wrote: >You didn't read my message ;) I didn't give a location, I asked if the >folks who administer gladiator would be interested in putting them up. But >here they are, I made them available over my DSL connection... > >http://frogtown.dynu.com/slackware/ Ah... Now I re-read and understand. :-) Anyways... What did you use as reference for what goes on what cd? (7.1 cd?) Thanks, -- Thomas J. Hudak Systems Administrator Sistina Software Inc. - www.sistina.com Phone: 612.638.0500 x.513 Fax: 612.379.3952 Page: 612.318.1967 Key fingerprint = BEC6 3181 4C9B A7BB AF11 4717 6F85 B346 380D 523E sleep: Command not found - The story of my life... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010521/ae3e6a51/attachment.pgp From blayer at qwest.net Mon May 21 18:07:10 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 7.2 .iso images available In-Reply-To: <20010521174658.B7189@localhost> References: <20010521022400.31984.qmail@web11507.mail.yahoo.com> <20010521113212.1bd30cce.blayer@qwest.net> <20010521145203.A5519@localhost> <20010521161043.76a8d6d4.blayer@qwest.net> <20010521174658.B7189@localhost> Message-ID: <20010521180710.56e72e48.blayer@qwest.net> On Mon, 21 May 2001 17:46:58 -0500 "Tom Hudak" wrote: > Ah... Now I re-read and understand. :-) Anyways... What did you use as > reference for what goes on what cd? (7.1 cd?) Not at all. The entire slack-current (aka 7.2) tree is way to large to fit onto a single cd, so I opted to put the /slakware/ package sets onto a single disk, as this would really be necessary for installation. After that decision, since all remaining files would also fit on a second CD, that is where they went. It was really just a matter of need. You will also note: unlike the standard distribution, my first CD is _not_ bootable.. you will need to use the standard bootdisk/rootdisk method of starting the install process. P.S. Let me know if it works ;) -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From rechpj at earthlink.net Mon May 21 17:20:43 2001 From: rechpj at earthlink.net (Paul Rech) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Buying stuff listed at pricewatch.com References: <20010521023328.91700.qmail@web11106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B0994BB.82ADD117@earthlink.net> www.resellerratings.com Peter Clark wrote: > > So I'm in the middle of building a brand new box. Being the poor > student that I am, with a wife who is tolerant so long as I don't get > spendy, I'm interested in getting good, high quality, but cheap parts. > Take, for instance, a GeForce2 MX. At Tran, it's $99.99 and at General > Nano, $89.99, last I checked. However, I have found it going for about > $50-$55 (plus $10-$15 s+h) through Pricewatch. That's a savings of > $20-$30 dollars. However, remembering the famous triade (Good, Fast, > Cheap, pick two), I'm wondering if I might be buying a lemon. Some of > them offer one year insurance, which sounds safer, but I would like to > test the collected wisdom of the group for advice. > Thanks! > :Peter From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Mon May 21 19:13:38 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ethernet problems In-Reply-To: <20010521100846.A6612@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> References: <990045515.13374.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3B082FE4.E117B5D0@haxxed.com> <20010521100846.A6612@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> Message-ID: <20010521191338.029b192f.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Jim Kaufman wrote: > > My setup is a bit simpler, but I do have a video card and a TV tuner > card. I spent time to ensure that the two used different IRQs, but no > matter how I confired the BIOS Linux insisted on sharing the same IRQ > (5) between the video and the TV tuner. Anyway, it works fine. I can > watch TV, while also using Win4Lin to balance my books using Quicken. Most of the time, you don't need the IRQ enabled on a video card. The only time I ever had to enable it was when I was playing with the DRI OpenGL stuff in XFree86 4.0. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Listen to the quiet voice. / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From thefishyone at hotmail.com Mon May 21 20:24:26 2001 From: thefishyone at hotmail.com (Pizza of Hut) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kernel 2.4.x References: <20010521022400.31984.qmail@web11507.mail.yahoo.com> <20010521113212.1bd30cce.blayer@qwest.net> <20010521145203.A5519@localhost> <20010521161043.76a8d6d4.blayer@qwest.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20010521164746.009f0140@pop.mpls.qwest.net> Message-ID: Just out of curiosity, have any of you guys ever gotten a 3Com/US Robotics winmodem to run under Linux. According to linmodems.org, no drivers exist for them, however, I just wanted to make sure before I dropped a load of perfectly good bucks on a new modem. ---------- The Fishy One's Infinite Wisdom #15: "A man doesn't need a scarecrow if he's got penguins." New wisdom every week! From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Mon May 21 21:42:09 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Analog RAM Meter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK, so has anyone gotten the meter? I'm actually working on the driver this evening, since I haven't heard anything about it. Just curious. Phil M -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From jamie at getsetnet.net Mon May 21 20:55:11 2001 From: jamie at getsetnet.net (Jamie Ostrowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Analog RAM Meter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well, I went to Ax Man and came up empty handed. I did a lot of looking online and I managed to come up with a site that has some meters, but they are fairly unimpressive and have been trying to come up with something a little more exciting. http://www.gip-inc.com/Hoyt2/hoyt%20analog%20panel%20meters.htm Do you have any other ideas? I thought a trip to an old shop I know of down by ABC Electronics might be rewarding, but I am not too hopeful. Anyway, what do you think of these Hoyt meters? - Jamie On Mon, 21 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > OK, so has anyone gotten the meter? I'm actually working on the driver > this evening, since I haven't heard anything about it. Just curious. > > Phil M > > -- "It's pretty hard to stop a man who eats his toast every morning." From jethro at freakzilla.com Mon May 21 21:57:04 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Analog RAM Meter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, On Mon, 21 May 2001, Jamie Ostrowski wrote: > Do you have any other ideas? I thought a trip to an old shop I know of > down by ABC Electronics might be rewarding, but I am not too > hopeful. Anyway, what do you think of these Hoyt meters? I'm sure ABC Electronics would have far more electronics surplus than axman. More cool stuff than ACME, too. There's this place in Eden Praire that's supposed to have REALLY cool stuff, starts with a D. -Yaron -- From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Mon May 21 22:36:16 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Analog RAM Meter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 21 May 2001, Yaron wrote: > On Mon, 21 May 2001, Jamie Ostrowski wrote: > > > Do you have any other ideas? I thought a trip to an old shop I know of > > down by ABC Electronics might be rewarding, but I am not too > > hopeful. Anyway, what do you think of these Hoyt meters? OK, here's my suggestion. Take a Saturday afternoon (or weekday if you have it) and go to the Pavek Museum of Broadcasting in St. Louis Park (Just east of Hwy 100 at 7, IIRC.) Why? Because I think you'll find that the image in your mind is way out of whack with what you're shopping for. The Pavek has meters on things that go back to the 20's and 30's, and I bet you see some of them and say, "Wow! Now *THAT'S* what I had in mind!" If you do, and if you do fall in love with some of them, ask Steve Raymer (the curator) or whoever is working there to point you in the direction of old radio collectors so that you can pick some up. You'll have to do them one's or two's at a time, no doubt, but if you really want to match the stylized thing that I suspect is floating around in your mind, that's the way to do it. (I think you want something circular with a big bakelite bezel and a little heart with the pointy end at the tip of the needle, right?) :) The Hoyt meters seemed fine to me -- probably closer to period looking meters, if you've ever mucked around with 50's or 60's era lab electronics. I'll look and see if any of the out of state places I used to know have anything or still exist. [Back to Yaron] > I'm sure ABC Electronics would have far more electronics surplus than > axman. More cool stuff than ACME, too. Can I offer what I hope is a rare negative opinion? I am so strongly opposed to the way ACME conducts their business that I not only won't deal with them, but I'll take my toys and go home if anyone buys anything for this there. How's that? If you replace every word in this paragraph with *two* words, all profane and non-identical, you'll have some idea of what my first draft looked like. I don't usually subscribe to boycotting vendors, but in their case I'll make an exception. I should post the reasons on my web site when I get the DNS all straghtened out. > There's this place in Eden Praire that's supposed to have REALLY cool > stuff, starts with a D. What is this, charades?! Sounds like.... :P -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From labmat at mn.mediaone.net Mon May 21 22:40:22 2001 From: labmat at mn.mediaone.net (Matthew LaBerge) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Analog RAM Meter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: dexus -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Yaron Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 9:57 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Analog RAM Meter Hi, On Mon, 21 May 2001, Jamie Ostrowski wrote: > Do you have any other ideas? I thought a trip to an old shop I know of > down by ABC Electronics might be rewarding, but I am not too > hopeful. Anyway, what do you think of these Hoyt meters? I'm sure ABC Electronics would have far more electronics surplus than axman. More cool stuff than ACME, too. There's this place in Eden Praire that's supposed to have REALLY cool stuff, starts with a D. -Yaron -- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From colin at tyr.med.umn.edu Mon May 21 22:43:45 2001 From: colin at tyr.med.umn.edu (Colin Kilbane) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Analog RAM Meter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The last time I was out to the reuse facilities for the university, they had a large number of outdatated instruments that could provide what you ar looking for. Last semester they had some neat galvinometers ( I don't think I spelled that right) in antique wooden boxes. I should have grabbed some but I already had too much junk. Colin Kilbane From jethro at freakzilla.com Mon May 21 22:44:24 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Analog RAM Meter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, On Mon, 21 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > Can I offer what I hope is a rare negative opinion? I am so strongly > opposed to the way ACME conducts their business that I not only won't deal > with them, but I'll take my toys and go home if anyone buys anything for > this there. How's that? If you replace every word in this paragraph with > *two* words, all profane and non-identical, you'll have some idea of what > my first draft looked like. *Tries to think whether I ever bought anything form ACME...* *BRAIN STRAIN!!! ARRGH* Well, I don't THINK I have. Maybe I got like a $0.25 jack. I liked ABC a LOT better. Way to rant without reasoning! I don't want to wait for a website! Email me in private if you don't think the group needs to know. > > There's this place in Eden Praire that's supposed to have REALLY cool > > stuff, starts with a D. > What is this, charades?! Sounds like.... :P Dexi's? Dexxus? I don't think I've ever seen it written down. -Yaron -- From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Mon May 21 23:11:33 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Analog RAM Meter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 21 May 2001, Yaron wrote: > *Tries to think whether I ever bought anything form ACME...* *BRAIN > STRAIN!!! ARRGH* Don't hurt yourself! > Way to rant without reasoning! I don't want to wait for a website! Email > me in private if you don't think the group needs to know. 4 or 5 years of being treated like more of a chimp than the chimps hired to work behind the counter capped by one particular instance of hired help refusing to see that the printed policy was counter to both their and my interests. I'll tell you the rest at the next beer meeting we both get to. > Dexi's? Dexxus? I don't think I've ever seen it written down. I think Matt LaBerge already answered. I was just pulling your chain. :) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From jonathankl_2001 at yahoo.com Tue May 22 06:48:02 2001 From: jonathankl_2001 at yahoo.com (Jonathan Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kernel 2.4.x In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010522114802.92865.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> Search linuxdoc.org for thw WinModem Howto. --- Pizza of Hut wrote: > Just out of curiosity, have any of you guys ever gotten a 3Com/US > Robotics > winmodem to run under Linux. According to linmodems.org, no drivers > exist > for them, however, I just wanted to make sure before I dropped a load of > perfectly good bucks on a new modem. > ---------- > The Fishy One's Infinite Wisdom #15: "A man doesn't need a scarecrow if > he's > got penguins." > > New wisdom every week! > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ===== -Jonathan A. Kline -jonathankl@gidzero.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From jonathankl_2001 at yahoo.com Tue May 22 06:50:04 2001 From: jonathankl_2001 at yahoo.com (Jonathan Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Buying stuff listed at pricewatch.com In-Reply-To: <20010521224531.41960.qmail@web11503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010522115004.99089.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> www.tranmicro.com --- "James A. N. Stauffer" wrote: > URL for Tran Micro? > --- Helper Monkey wrote: > > Scott Dier wrote: > > > > >* Bill Layer [010521 11:47]: > > > > > >>mwave has been very good to me in the past, but just recently I had > a > > >>great experience with avlogic (www.avlogic.com). Ordered a Yamaha > > CDR2100E > > >> > > > > > >And, if you are getting sick of dealing with online vendors, theres > > >allways General Nanosystems and Microcenter. > > > > > And Tran Micro. :) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > ===== > = o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ _____=======_||___ > o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | | Stauffer_James | > .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | | @yahoo.com | > >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|________________| > _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o¬o¬o o¬o¬o` 'o¬o o¬o` > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ===== -Jonathan A. Kline -jonathankl@gidzero.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From sraun at fireopal.org Tue May 22 06:58:18 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Analog RAM Meter In-Reply-To: ; from labmat@mn.mediaone.net on Mon, May 21, 2001 at 10:40:22PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010522065818.B2475@iaxs.net> That's how it's pronounced - but it's spellied DEXIS. Stands for Dealers in EXcess Inventory and Stuff (ro at least it did five years ago). IAXS (aka Infinity AccessNET) is their ISP branch - and they happen to be my provider. I see that whoever it was that previously owned it let their registration lapse - Jim complained in my direction at one time that someone _else_ already owned the domain dexis.com. However, it's obviously their pages at www.dexis.com now! On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 10:40:22PM -0500, Matthew LaBerge wrote: > dexus > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On > Behalf Of Yaron > Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 9:57 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Analog RAM Meter > > Hi, > > On Mon, 21 May 2001, Jamie Ostrowski wrote: > > > Do you have any other ideas? I thought a trip to an old shop I know of > > down by ABC Electronics might be rewarding, but I am not too > > hopeful. Anyway, what do you think of these Hoyt meters? > > I'm sure ABC Electronics would have far more electronics surplus than > axman. More cool stuff than ACME, too. > > There's this place in Eden Praire that's supposed to have REALLY cool > stuff, starts with a D. > > -Yaron > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From jonathankl_2001 at yahoo.com Tue May 22 07:06:11 2001 From: jonathankl_2001 at yahoo.com (Jonathan Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] USB pigtails for cheap? In-Reply-To: <3B0831AD.926CC2C2@haxxed.com> Message-ID: <20010522120611.61698.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> CyberGuys has them for about 10, www.cyberguys.com, also TigerDirect might have them, and I possibility might have about 30-40 of them if you needed some...,. --- Callum Lerwick wrote: > Does anyone know a cheap source for those USB pigtail thingies for older > AT style pentium motherboards that have a USB header on the board? I've > seen them at Best Buy and such for like $30, but that seems rather > pricey for just a USB plug. Anyone happen to know of a cheaper source? > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ===== -Jonathan A. Kline -jonathankl@gidzero.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From veldy at veldy.net Tue May 22 08:06:01 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 7.2 .iso images available References: <20010521022400.31984.qmail@web11507.mail.yahoo.com><20010521113212.1bd30cce.blayer@qwest.net><20010521145203.A5519@localhost> <20010521161043.76a8d6d4.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <004a01c0e2bf$f3e27770$3028680a@tgt.com> Hope you don't need your DSL for a few days :) Maybe you should limit your access to one connection at a time. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Layer" To: Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Slackware 7.2 .iso images available > On Mon, 21 May 2001 14:52:03 -0500 > "Tom Hudak" wrote: > > > Hey cool, but uhh... I don't see them in /linux/misc_iso, > /linux/slackware or > > anywhere else? What gives? > > You didn't read my message ;) I didn't give a location, I asked if the > folks who administer gladiator would be interested in putting them up. But > here they are, I made them available over my DSL connection... > > http://frogtown.dynu.com/slackware/ > > Drill down to the iso directory. It's a slow (256K) upload, though... > > -.bill.layer.- > > -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- > > -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From veldy at veldy.net Tue May 22 08:11:07 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kernel 2.4.x References: <20010521022400.31984.qmail@web11507.mail.yahoo.com> <20010521113212.1bd30cce.blayer@qwest.net> <20010521145203.A5519@localhost> <20010521161043.76a8d6d4.blayer@qwest.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20010521164746.009f0140@pop.mpls.qwest.net> Message-ID: <006701c0e2c0$aa6b2280$3028680a@tgt.com> You should NEVER buy a winmodem if you already know better. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pizza of Hut" To: Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 8:24 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Kernel 2.4.x > Just out of curiosity, have any of you guys ever gotten a 3Com/US Robotics > winmodem to run under Linux. According to linmodems.org, no drivers exist > for them, however, I just wanted to make sure before I dropped a load of > perfectly good bucks on a new modem. > ---------- > The Fishy One's Infinite Wisdom #15: "A man doesn't need a scarecrow if he's > got penguins." > > New wisdom every week! > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 22 08:19:31 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Analog RAM Meter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010522081931.0ae6100c.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Colin Kilbane wrote: > > The last time I was out to the reuse facilities for the university, > they had a large number of outdatated instruments that could provide > what you ar looking for. Last semester they had some neat galvinometers > ( I don't think I spelled that right) in antique wooden boxes. I > should have grabbed some but I already had too much junk. Unfortunately, I don't think they're open to the public anymore, but I can't find a URL anymore to check (I think I deleted it after I saw that..) -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ If at first you don't / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ succeed-- Wait! Did \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) you read the manual? [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From zibby at ringworld.org Tue May 22 08:37:23 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kernel 2.4.x In-Reply-To: <20010522114802.92865.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It's a WinModem. You're over the falls allready so it doesn't really matter that you don't have a paddle. That said, most of the winmodems supported have lucent chipsets. IBM kicked lucent around and forced them to make them work under linux. But just because it works, doesn't mean it will work better than under windows. It's still a POS software modem, and the Lucent & Rockwell based modems are the worst of the lot. (Based on my ISP tech support experience.) As far as I know 3com winmodems are still a no go under linux. I could be wrong as I don't care about software modems, there is no reason for them to exisit other than to annoy me, I have 3 nice 3com/USR modems, and none of them are in my machine due to a lack of ISA slots. Go out, buy a real modem. Not some USB hack, not some stupid winmodem. I've been out of ISP support for about a year now and I still don't want to hear about winmodems or the problems that come with them. No, I don't have an opinion about these things. Not at all. | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From natecars at real-time.com Tue May 22 09:41:44 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Analog RAM Meter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 21 May 2001, Yaron wrote: > There's this place in Eden Praire that's supposed to have REALLY cool > stuff, starts with a D. Dexis, exactly 3 blocks (give or take a half mile) from our office here. :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From blutgens at sistina.com Tue May 22 09:51:32 2001 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 7.2 .iso images available In-Reply-To: <004a01c0e2bf$f3e27770$3028680a@tgt.com>; from veldy@veldy.net on Tue, May 22, 2001 at 08:06:01AM -0500 References: <20010521022400.31984.qmail@web11507.mail.yahoo.com><20010521113212.1bd30cce.blayer@qwest.net><20010521145203.A5519@localhost> <20010521161043.76a8d6d4.blayer@qwest.net> <004a01c0e2bf$f3e27770$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: <20010522095132.F20912@minime.sistina.com> On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 08:06:01AM -0500, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: >Hope you don't need your DSL for a few days :) Maybe you should limit your >access to one connection at a time. Or get Bob to let you upload them to a slackware/unofficial directory on gladiator. > >Tom Veldhouse >veldy@veldy.net > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bill Layer" >To: >Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 4:10 PM >Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Slackware 7.2 .iso images available > > >> On Mon, 21 May 2001 14:52:03 -0500 >> "Tom Hudak" wrote: >> >> > Hey cool, but uhh... I don't see them in /linux/misc_iso, >> /linux/slackware or >> > anywhere else? What gives? >> >> You didn't read my message ;) I didn't give a location, I asked if the >> folks who administer gladiator would be interested in putting them up. But >> here they are, I made them available over my DSL connection... >> >> http://frogtown.dynu.com/slackware/ >> >> Drill down to the iso directory. It's a slow (256K) upload, though... >> >> -.bill.layer.- >> >> -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- >> >> -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- >> _______________________________________________ >> tclug-list mailing list >> tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > >_______________________________________________ >tclug-list mailing list >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Ben Lutgens Sistina Software Inc. MIS Geek http://www.sistina.com/ <--- great software http://www.gentoo.org/ <--- great distro Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream <--- perfect error message -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010522/25c59c70/attachment.pgp From blayer at qwest.net Tue May 22 10:16:49 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 7.2 .iso images available In-Reply-To: <20010522095132.F20912@minime.sistina.com> References: <20010521022400.31984.qmail@web11507.mail.yahoo.com> <20010521113212.1bd30cce.blayer@qwest.net> <20010521145203.A5519@localhost> <20010521161043.76a8d6d4.blayer@qwest.net> <004a01c0e2bf$f3e27770$3028680a@tgt.com> <20010522095132.F20912@minime.sistina.com> Message-ID: <20010522101649.75e256c0.blayer@qwest.net> On Tue, 22 May 2001 09:51:32 -0500 "Ben Lutgens" wrote: > On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 08:06:01AM -0500, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > >Hope you don't need your DSL for a few days :) Maybe you should limit your > >access to one connection at a time. > > Or get Bob to let you upload them to a slackware/unofficial directory on > gladiator. I've already suggested this, but haven't heard a peep from the Bob. Honestly, I really don't want to serve 500MB images from a 256k adsl line. -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From ksm at dogbrain.com Tue May 22 11:10:47 2001 From: ksm at dogbrain.com (Karl Morgan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Analog RAM Meter In-Reply-To: ; from natecars@real-time.com on Tue, May 22, 2001 at 09:41:44AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010522111047.A27015@dogbrain.com> On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 09:41:44AM -0500, Nate Carlson wrote: > On Mon, 21 May 2001, Yaron wrote: > > There's this place in Eden Praire that's supposed to have REALLY cool > > stuff, starts with a D. > > Dexis, exactly 3 blocks (give or take a half mile) from our office here. > :) I was in there the other week and they had what I thought were some really neat old meter movements. Not all the same, but they had quite a few. They are located in the backroom, not out front with the computer stuff. Regards - Karl From austad at marketwatch.com Tue May 22 11:22:44 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 7.2 .iso images available Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807CD@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> That's why you akamize them. :) Just append the akamai stuff in front of the URL you want to cache: http://a516.g.akamai.net/7/516/1/f15ee829e2faf2/www.slackware.com/something/ morestuff/whatever.iso Of course, I don't think akamai would be too happy if they found out. Slow downloads on stuff that gets posted on slashdot always goes faster once you post a URL like the above to the comments section as a mirror. Come back an hour later, and it's all spiffy and fast. :) > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Layer [mailto:blayer@qwest.net] > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 10:17 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Slackware 7.2 .iso images available > > > On Tue, 22 May 2001 09:51:32 -0500 > "Ben Lutgens" wrote: > > > On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 08:06:01AM -0500, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > > >Hope you don't need your DSL for a few days :) Maybe you > should limit > your > > >access to one connection at a time. > > > > Or get Bob to let you upload them to a slackware/unofficial > directory on > > gladiator. > > I've already suggested this, but haven't heard a peep from the Bob. > Honestly, I really don't want to serve 500MB images from a > 256k adsl line. > > > -.bill.layer.- > > -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't > talking.- > > -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 22 11:25:18 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Analog RAM Meter In-Reply-To: <20010522111047.A27015@dogbrain.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 May 2001, Karl Morgan wrote: > I was in there the other week and they had what I thought were > some really neat old meter movements. Not all the same, but they > had quite a few. They are located in the backroom, not out front > with the computer stuff. I may have to make the pilgrimage. Their web site looked pretty cool. If you divide all their prices by 10, it's just about what I learned to expect from a surplus place, at least out West. Of course that was some years ago, and perhaps what you pay at Dexis isn't always just what the tag is marked, "he said hopefully." :) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From austad at marketwatch.com Tue May 22 11:39:01 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bynari Insight Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807CF@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> I was just looking at their site last night. Has anyone tried it? There aren't any screenshots, and you have to buy a demo copy of the client for $10 if you want to try it. Maybe we should bitch to them to get more info up. It sounds interesting, but there aren't any screenshots to see what it looks like, or any real technical information on it. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Yaron [mailto:jethro@freakzilla.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 6:40 PM > To: TCLUG > Subject: [TCLUG] Bynari Insight > > > Hi, > > Has anyone tried Insight Client from Bynari.net? It was > mentioned on the > list at one time, but not really much. Their website looks > like a complete > hack. > > > -Yaron > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From austad at marketwatch.com Tue May 22 11:39:01 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bynari Insight Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807CF@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> I was just looking at their site last night. Has anyone tried it? There aren't any screenshots, and you have to buy a demo copy of the client for $10 if you want to try it. Maybe we should bitch to them to get more info up. It sounds interesting, but there aren't any screenshots to see what it looks like, or any real technical information on it. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Yaron [mailto:jethro@freakzilla.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 6:40 PM > To: TCLUG > Subject: [TCLUG] Bynari Insight > > > Hi, > > Has anyone tried Insight Client from Bynari.net? It was > mentioned on the > list at one time, but not really much. Their website looks > like a complete > hack. > > > -Yaron > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jspinti at dart.dartdist.com Tue May 22 12:33:34 2001 From: jspinti at dart.dartdist.com (jspinti@dart.dartdist.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Multiple X sessions Message-ID: <10105221749.AA18886@dart.dartdist.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1112 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010522/27affc1c/attachment.asc From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Tue May 22 12:36:31 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Game order status? In-Reply-To: ; from andy@theasis.com on Thu, May 17, 2001 at 12:15:58PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010522123631.U28763@ringworld.org> * andy@theasis.com [010517 17:17]: > > > Speaking of Tribes 2, has anything happened with the Loki games order? > No, because I've been travelling or otherwise swamped, and therefore never > got back to the Loki salesperson-contact with further questions on what to > do. Status? -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010522/d3900b24/attachment.pgp From jethro at yaron.org Tue May 22 12:40:20 2001 From: jethro at yaron.org (jethro@yaron.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Multiple X sessions In-Reply-To: <10105221749.AA18886@dart.dartdist.com> References: <10105221749.AA18886@dart.dartdist.com> Message-ID: <990553220.3b0aa484d1d7d@dragon> Hi, Quoting jspinti@dart.dartdist.com: > How can I set up > each user's environment so that they would default to a > different X session from anyone else? Depends on how X is getting started. If they're just going "startx", just change each user's .xinitrc to do whatever that user wants. -Yaron -- From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Tue May 22 12:49:12 2001 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Multiple X sessions In-Reply-To: <990553220.3b0aa484d1d7d@dragon>; from jethro@yaron.org on Tue, May 22, 2001 at 12:40:20PM -0500 References: <10105221749.AA18886@dart.dartdist.com> <990553220.3b0aa484d1d7d@dragon> Message-ID: <20010522124911.A19108@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 12:40:20PM -0500, jethro@yaron.org wrote: > Hi, > > Quoting jspinti@dart.dartdist.com: > > > How can I set up > > each user's environment so that they would default to a > > different X session from anyone else? > > Depends on how X is getting started. If they're just going "startx", just > change each user's .xinitrc to do whatever that user wants. > Or if you use and xdm clone ([wgk]dm), the login screen usually allows you to pick a window manager. And usually one of those choices is to use the same session as last time they logged in. I don't think vanilla xdm has these options, but I think all of its clones do. Also, depending on the window manager, you may be able to save your session automatically when you logout. -- Jim Crumley | crumley@fields.space.umn.edu | Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378 | From thudak at sistina.com Tue May 22 12:54:37 2001 From: thudak at sistina.com (Tom Hudak) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 7.2 .iso images available In-Reply-To: <20010521180710.56e72e48.blayer@qwest.net>; from blayer@qwest.net on Mon, May 21, 2001 at 06:07:10PM -0500 References: <20010521022400.31984.qmail@web11507.mail.yahoo.com> <20010521113212.1bd30cce.blayer@qwest.net> <20010521145203.A5519@localhost> <20010521161043.76a8d6d4.blayer@qwest.net> <20010521174658.B7189@localhost> <20010521180710.56e72e48.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <20010522125437.B2279@localhost> On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 06:07:10PM -0500, Bill Layer wrote: >You will also note: unlike the standard distribution, my first CD is _not_ >bootable.. you will need to use the standard bootdisk/rootdisk method of >starting the install process. > >P.S. Let me know if it works ;) I'll make some disc's that are bootable. I have the current tree, but I never spent enough time to make the cd's. El Torito here we come. Thanks, -- Thomas J. Hudak Systems Administrator Sistina Software Inc. - www.sistina.com Phone: 612.638.0500 x.513 Fax: 612.379.3952 Page: 612.318.1967 Key fingerprint = BEC6 3181 4C9B A7BB AF11 4717 6F85 B346 380D 523E sleep: Command not found - The story of my life... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010522/b9d30877/attachment.pgp From reports at yahoo.com Tue May 22 14:03:31 2001 From: reports at yahoo.com (reports@yahoo.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Well.....Here it is!!!! Message-ID: <378.277269.303406@yahoo.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010522/2ebe4abf/attachment.htm From blayer at qwest.net Tue May 22 13:00:49 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 7.2 .iso images available In-Reply-To: <20010522125437.B2279@localhost> References: <20010521022400.31984.qmail@web11507.mail.yahoo.com> <20010521113212.1bd30cce.blayer@qwest.net> <20010521145203.A5519@localhost> <20010521161043.76a8d6d4.blayer@qwest.net> <20010521174658.B7189@localhost> <20010521180710.56e72e48.blayer@qwest.net> <20010522125437.B2279@localhost> Message-ID: <20010522130049.3eb5f66d.blayer@qwest.net> On Tue, 22 May 2001 12:54:37 -0500 "Tom Hudak" wrote: > On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 06:07:10PM -0500, Bill Layer wrote: > >You will also note: unlike the standard distribution, my first CD is _not_ > >bootable.. you will need to use the standard bootdisk/rootdisk method of > >starting the install process. > > > >P.S. Let me know if it works ;) > I'll make some disc's that are bootable. I have the current tree, but I never > spent enough time to make the cd's. El Torito here we come. I would have, but I'm not exactly sure how the slackware bootable cd handles the root filesystem... I know how to make a bootable cd (that emulates a single floppy disk), but not the dual boot / root setup that slack uses.. I'd be curious how you do that. -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From administrator at ltiflex.com Tue May 22 13:10:56 2001 From: administrator at ltiflex.com (Andy Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Multiple X sessions References: <10105221749.AA18886@dart.dartdist.com> <990553220.3b0aa484d1d7d@dragon> <20010522124911.A19108@gordo.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3B0AABB0.59110F43@ltiflex.com> You're talking about having mutiple people logged into X at the same time right? Simple, for GDM, edit /etc/gdm/gdm.conf, go to the bottom of the file, the last line is something like: 0=/usr/bin/X11/XFree86 vt5 -deferglyphs 16 (In my case, I only use 4 virtual consoles so my X display is on vt5.) Add a line: 1=/usr/bin/X11/Xfree86 vt6 -deferglyphs 16 and gdm will manage a display on vt5 and vt6. Switch between them with ctrl+alt+f5 and ctrl+alt+f6. add another line: 2=/usr/bin/X11/Xfree86 vt7 -deferglyphs 16 and gdm will manage a third display on vt7. Is that easy or what? (Configuration for KDM and XDM is similar, but I don't have either installed so I can't glance at the config files. Same thing though, just add a line for each diaply you want *DM to manage. If you need more displays, you can disable virtural consoles by editing /etc/inittab. Now for the real fun, get yourself some gigabit ethernet, and pentium 200 with a good video card (vodoo2 or 3, g200, g400, whatever.) Enable XDMCP on your other box. On the 200, set up linux minimally and have it's Xserver query the other box. Login, and play Quake3 over the network. Heh, I don't know if gigabit ethernet will handle GLX, would be amusing though. :) Ok, go pratical. Get a 468 with a good video card. Setup LTSP (http://www.ltsp.org) on your other box. All the 486 needs is a video card, a nic (with a boot rom), or a floppy drive (if you don't have a boot rom.) No hard drive required. You have a fully functional Xterminal. 2000 server and XP can do this, but RDP is limited to 256 colors. (Maybe XP imporved this?) Besides, you don't have to pay for it. Linux (and Unix in general) would kick serious ass as an application server if the managment tools for such a setup were on par with those in the windows world. -- Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH) 763-428-9119 (EX) 132 21801 Industrial Blvd | (FX) 763-428-9126 Rogers, MN 55374 | (PCS) 612-306-6055 From moneymakingopp at excite.com Tue May 22 14:20:24 2001 From: moneymakingopp at excite.com (moneymakingopp@excite.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Well...Here it is!!!! Message-ID: <100.532235.280828@home.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010522/bb87db5d/attachment.html From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 22 14:59:50 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Well...Here it is!!!! In-Reply-To: <100.532235.280828@home.com> Message-ID: OK, spam is one thing and usually I'm the king of "just ignore it," but this has gone far enough. They are not only getting into the list, but pulling suscribers addresses. I got the same spam on my acct directly, and almost *never* get anything like this. The coincidence is too big to be one, if you know what I mean. Not only that, but I read just enough to get the impression that this is a pyramid scheme, and those are illegal. (Gasp!) Bob, Amy, or any RTE folks: could you contact the AG's office? It won't fix things much, but Mike Hatch and co. do have a process in place, and it's like bug reports: No one can fix it if they don't know. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From veldy at veldy.net Tue May 22 15:25:48 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Well...Here it is!!!! References: Message-ID: <018a01c0e2fd$63afc200$3028680a@tgt.com> Login to the mailing list webpage and choose the option to hide your email address from the list of subscribers. Tom Veldhouse ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Mendelsohn" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Well...Here it is!!!! > OK, spam is one thing and usually I'm the king of "just ignore it," but > this has gone far enough. They are not only getting into the list, but > pulling suscribers addresses. I got the same spam on my acct directly, > and almost *never* get anything like this. The coincidence is too big to > be one, if you know what I mean. > > Not only that, but I read just enough to get the impression that this is a > pyramid scheme, and those are illegal. (Gasp!) > > Bob, Amy, or any RTE folks: could you contact the AG's office? It won't > fix things much, but Mike Hatch and co. do have a process in place, and > it's like bug reports: No one can fix it if they don't know. > > > > > > -- > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From tanner at real-time.com Tue May 22 15:33:52 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:24 2005 Subject: [moneymakingopp@excite.com: [TCLUG] Well...Here it is!!!!] Message-ID: <20010522153352.R3924@real-time.com> > Hi, > ''Making over half million dollars every 4 to 5 months from > your home for an investment of only $25 U.S. Dollars expense > one time'' THANKS TO THE COMPUTER AGE AND THE INTERNET! > ================================================= Hmm, how are they getting on the list. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 22 15:34:21 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Well...Here it is!!!! In-Reply-To: <018a01c0e2fd$63afc200$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 May 2001, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > Login to the mailing list webpage and choose the option to hide your email > address from the list of subscribers. Doh! I didn't even think of it. Sorry. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From veldy at veldy.net Tue May 22 15:38:21 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:24 2005 Subject: [moneymakingopp@excite.com: [TCLUG] Well...Here it is!!!!] References: <20010522153352.R3924@real-time.com> Message-ID: <01b401c0e2ff$244bd020$3028680a@tgt.com> Probably subscribing -- sending email -- and then unsubscribing. I am sure a smart perl script or better could do it. Tom Veldhouse hiding@my.email.addr ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Tanner" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 3:33 PM Subject: [moneymakingopp@excite.com: [TCLUG] Well...Here it is!!!!] > > Hi, > > ''Making over half million dollars every 4 to 5 months from > > your home for an investment of only $25 U.S. Dollars expense > > one time'' THANKS TO THE COMPUTER AGE AND THE INTERNET! > > ================================================= > > Hmm, how are they getting on the list. > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From veldy at veldy.net Tue May 22 15:39:18 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Well...Here it is!!!! References: Message-ID: <01bb01c0e2ff$461dcd70$3028680a@tgt.com> Might want to avoid signing messages sent to the list with your real email address as well. Tom Veldhouse veldy@nospam.visi.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Mendelsohn" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 3:34 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Well...Here it is!!!! > On Tue, 22 May 2001, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > > > Login to the mailing list webpage and choose the option to hide your email > > address from the list of subscribers. > > Doh! I didn't even think of it. Sorry. > > -- > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From duncan at sodatrain.com Tue May 22 14:49:16 2001 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (duncan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Well...Here it is!!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: wow.. i didnt know there were that many people on the list! On Tue, 22 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On Tue, 22 May 2001, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > > > Login to the mailing list webpage and choose the option to hide your email > > address from the list of subscribers. > > Doh! I didn't even think of it. Sorry. > > -- || || || || || || duncan shannon duncan@sodatrain.com From tanner at real-time.com Tue May 22 15:44:02 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:24 2005 Subject: [moneymakingopp@excite.com: [TCLUG] Well...Here it is!!!!] In-Reply-To: <01b401c0e2ff$244bd020$3028680a@tgt.com>; from veldy@veldy.net on Tue, May 22, 2001 at 03:38:21PM -0500 References: <20010522153352.R3924@real-time.com> <01b401c0e2ff$244bd020$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: <20010522154402.V3924@real-time.com> Quoting Thomas T. Veldhouse (veldy@veldy.net): > Probably subscribing -- sending email -- and then unsubscribing. I am sure > a smart perl script or better could do it. Not see that in the subscribe logs. Also, the list is only available to list members. So, for a temp measure. I am going to require new subscribe request to have to be confirmed by the user and approved by myself or clay. I am also making the list members list available to the list admin only. Let's see that that help. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From thefishyone at hotmail.com Tue May 22 15:47:39 2001 From: thefishyone at hotmail.com (Matt Waters) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kernel 2.4.x Message-ID: I know. Problem is, I didn't know it was a winmodem 'till it was too late. >From: "Thomas T. Veldhouse" >Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org >To: >Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Kernel 2.4.x >Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 08:11:07 -0500 > >You should NEVER buy a winmodem if you already know better. > >Tom Veldhouse >veldy@veldy.net > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Pizza of Hut" >To: >Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 8:24 PM >Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Kernel 2.4.x > > > > Just out of curiosity, have any of you guys ever gotten a 3Com/US >Robotics > > winmodem to run under Linux. According to linmodems.org, no drivers >exist > > for them, however, I just wanted to make sure before I dropped a load of > > perfectly good bucks on a new modem. > > ---------- > > The Fishy One's Infinite Wisdom #15: "A man doesn't need a scarecrow if >he's > > got penguins." > > > > New wisdom every week! > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > >_______________________________________________ >tclug-list mailing list >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From zibby at ringworld.org Tue May 22 15:49:39 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Anti-SPAM brainstorm. In-Reply-To: <01bb01c0e2ff$461dcd70$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: Can we do other things like hide the archives from search engines? Are the archives still searchable? If not, are they really useful? Can we do something crazy like filter e-mail through procmail before sending it out to the list? Who else has ideas? :) | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From thefishyone at hotmail.com Tue May 22 15:52:24 2001 From: thefishyone at hotmail.com (Matt Waters) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kernel 2.4.x Message-ID: >From: "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" >Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org >To: >Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Kernel 2.4.x >Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 08:37:23 -0500 (CDT) > >It's a WinModem. You're over the falls allready so it doesn't really >matter that you don't have a paddle. > >That said, most of the winmodems supported have lucent chipsets. IBM >kicked lucent around and forced them to make them work under linux. But >just because it works, doesn't mean it will work better than under >windows. It's still a POS software modem, and the Lucent & Rockwell based >modems are the worst of the lot. (Based on my ISP tech support >experience.) > >As far as I know 3com winmodems are still a no go under linux. I could be >wrong as I don't care about software modems, there is no reason for them >to exisit other than to annoy me, I have 3 nice 3com/USR modems, and none >of them are in my machine due to a lack of ISA slots. > >Go out, buy a real modem. Not some USB hack, not some stupid winmodem. >I've been out of ISP support for about a year now and I still don't want >to hear about winmodems or the problems that come with them. > >No, I don't have an opinion about these things. Not at all. > >| Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | >| http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | >| http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | >| His power apparently lies in his ability to | >| choose incompetent enemies. | >| - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | > > > >_______________________________________________ >tclug-list mailing list >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list Yeah, I kinda resigned myself to dropping more money on my fscking computer. Man, the next time I need a new computer, I'm gonna build my own. Computer venders suck big hairy Canadian wang ---------- The Fishy One's Infinite Wisdom #15: "A man doesn't need a scarecrow if he's got penguins." New wisdom every week! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From tanner at real-time.com Tue May 22 15:55:54 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mail-abuse.org charging for zone transfers? Message-ID: <20010522155554.Z3924@real-time.com> Did I miss something? I swear mail-abuse.org use to allow free zone transfers of blackholes.mail-abuse.org, relays.mail-abuse.org and dialups.mail-abuse.org. But now they are charging for it. Did I miss the change? I swear it was for free before. I feel like the whole CDDB thing. I have sent in thousands of open relays and now they want to charge ME for the work. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From tanner at real-time.com Tue May 22 16:01:04 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Anti-SPAM brainstorm. In-Reply-To: ; from zibby@ringworld.org on Tue, May 22, 2001 at 03:49:39PM -0500 References: <01bb01c0e2ff$461dcd70$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: <20010522160104.A3924@real-time.com> Quoting Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) (zibby@ringworld.org): > Can we do other things like hide the archives from search engines? > > Are the archives still searchable? If not, are they really useful? > > Can we do something crazy like filter e-mail through procmail before > sending it out to the list? > > Who else has ideas? :) See my previous post, I believe we are getting more spam because of the changes at mail-abuse.org. One of the ways we can keep spammer off the archives: http://www.blars.org/mod_access_rbl.html. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From fertch at mninter.net Tue May 22 16:09:48 2001 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gnome help Message-ID: <3B0AD59C.427D7156@mninter.net> Okay, this is probably way too simple but I can't figure it out. On my desktop at home, on the Gnome toolbar (1.2.0) I lost the part of the bar that shows the applications that running. Anyone know where to turn this back on? I've looked in the control panel properties but don't see anything. Thanks, Shawn From dopp at acm.cs.umn.edu Tue May 22 16:12:28 2001 From: dopp at acm.cs.umn.edu (dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mail-abuse.org charging for zone transfers? In-Reply-To: <20010522155554.Z3924@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Tue, May 22, 2001 at 03:55:54PM -0500 References: <20010522155554.Z3924@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010522161228.B15231@sorry.cs.umn.edu> On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 03:55:54PM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote: > Did I miss something? > > I swear mail-abuse.org use to allow free zone transfers of > blackholes.mail-abuse.org, relays.mail-abuse.org and dialups.mail-abuse.org. > > But now they are charging for it. > > Did I miss the change? I know they've been charging since _at least_ last fall (maybe even last summer). > I feel like the whole CDDB thing. I have sent in thousands of open relays and > now they want to charge ME for the work. Well, you're still free to query their DBs. If they don't charge for zone tranfers, what would they charge for? Without money, they wouldn't exist. And now that so many people seem to hate Paul Vixie, no one would just _give_ them money :) Gabe -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gabe Turner | X-President, SGI Origin Systems Administrator, | Assoc. for Computing Machinery U of M Supercomputing Institute for | University of Minnesohta Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation | dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu "No sir, I don't like it!" - Mr. Horse in "Fire Dogs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From natecars at real-time.com Tue May 22 16:12:47 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Anti-SPAM brainstorm. In-Reply-To: <20010522160104.A3924@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 May 2001, Bob Tanner wrote: > See my previous post, I believe we are getting more spam because of the changes > at mail-abuse.org. > > One of the ways we can keep spammer off the archives: > > http://www.blars.org/mod_access_rbl.html. Or we could sign up for a BGP feed from mail-abuse, and totally blackhole all traffic.. but.. nah. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From andy at theasis.com Tue May 22 11:14:53 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gnome help In-Reply-To: <3B0AD59C.427D7156@mninter.net> Message-ID: You mean the little tiles that correspond to each window? Right click on the toolbar, then --> Applets --> Utility --> Tasklist. I also find that sometimes I lose Applets --> Utility -->Desk Guide A. > Okay, this is probably way too simple but I can't figure it out. On my > desktop at home, on the Gnome toolbar (1.2.0) I lost the part of the bar > that shows the applications that running. Anyone know where to turn > this back on? I've looked in the control panel properties but don't see > anything. > > Thanks, > Shawn > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 22 16:14:55 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kernel 2.4.x In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 May 2001, Matt Waters wrote: > I know. Problem is, I didn't know it was a winmodem 'till it was too late. > It's almost never too late with Best Buy. Take it back. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Tue May 22 16:17:27 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mail-abuse.org charging for zone transfers? Message-ID: I think that was why they started blackhole-ing their competition. The market was a little too open. But, since they started getting a little more up-itty (Macromedia) and started charging for once free services, they might not stay on top of their game for long. I suppose it might depend on how much they're charging: subsistance money vs. "getting fat off of Bob's hard (but free) labor" money. How much is it? >>> tanner@real-time.com 05/22/01 03:55PM >>> Did I miss something? I swear mail-abuse.org use to allow free zone transfers of blackholes.mail-abuse.org, relays.mail-abuse.org and dialups.mail-abuse.org. But now they are charging for it. Did I miss the change? I swear it was for free before. I feel like the whole CDDB thing. I have sent in thousands of open relays and now they want to charge ME for the work. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dutchman at uswest.net Tue May 22 16:18:35 2001 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gnome help References: <3B0AD59C.427D7156@mninter.net> Message-ID: <3B0AD7AB.E1AC2026@uswest.net> Shawn wrote: > Okay, this is probably way too simple but I can't figure it out. On my > desktop at home, on the Gnome toolbar (1.2.0) I lost the part of the bar > that shows the applications that running. Anyone know where to turn > this back on? I've looked in the control panel properties but don't see > anything. Welcome to my world! It won't help to upgrade to 1.4 because that is what I run and I seem to loose that capability every couple of days. It has to do with the tasklist applet which is what displays the running process for the current virtual desktop. You can readd the tasklist applet to the bottom toolbar panel but it does not seem to work the same. My only recourse has been to blow away the .gnome* directories and redo my preferences. It only takes a minute (I have learned not to configure Gnome too heavily) but it is a royal pain. -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Solutions perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From tanner at real-time.com Tue May 22 16:28:55 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mail-abuse.org charging for zone transfers? In-Reply-To: ; from Troy.A.Johnson@state.mn.us on Tue, May 22, 2001 at 04:17:27PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010522162855.A12136@real-time.com> Quoting Troy Johnson (Troy.A.Johnson@state.mn.us): > I think that was why they started blackhole-ing their competition. The market > was a little too open. > > But, since they started getting a little more up-itty (Macromedia) and started > charging for once free services, they might not stay on top of their game for > long. I suppose it might depend on how much they're charging: subsistance > money vs. "getting fat off of Bob's hard (but free) labor" money. How much is > it? > Since Jan 1st, 2001, I have submitted over 10,000 (yes, I keep track) open relay requests. Only a smal handful of them got rejected. So, they are charging for my hard work, IMHO. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Tue May 22 16:40:04 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mail-abuse.org charging for zone transfers? Message-ID: >>> tanner@real-time.com 05/22/01 04:28PM >>> >>How much is it? >I have submitted over 10,000 I do not dispute that they are charging money for your efforts to keep them informed of their business. It seems a lame deal -- I think you should get a credit of some kind for helping them stay successful, especially in such quantities. But I wanted to know how much they are charging. From simeonuj at eetc.com Tue May 22 16:44:34 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Multiple X sessions References: <10105221749.AA18886@dart.dartdist.com> <990553220.3b0aa484d1d7d@dragon> <20010522124911.A19108@gordo.space.umn.edu> <3B0AABB0.59110F43@ltiflex.com> Message-ID: <3B0ADDB9.D6CF716@eetc.com> Anybody know if this is possible with winterms? I got a few Wyse Winterm 2310(Some letters here) and was wondering if it was possible to use them as Xterminals. They are also VT220, VT100 and VT52 terminals ( Built in to every one of them. Very cool ) with a type-II PCMCIA slot for upgrades. Pretty cool little machines but I have no intention of setting up a windows server and running winterms. Is it possible to run Xwindows on one of these? Anyone ever used them? Just wondering. It would be really cool to set some of these up. I think they also work with CIPE ( I think that's it. Don't have the specs right in front of me though ) also. sim Andy Zbikowski wrote: > Ok, go pratical. Get a 468 with a good video card. Setup LTSP > (http://www.ltsp.org) on your other box. All the 486 needs is a video card, > a nic (with a boot rom), or a floppy drive (if you don't have a boot rom.) > No hard drive required. You have a fully functional Xterminal. > > 2000 server and XP can do this, but RDP is limited to 256 colors. (Maybe XP > imporved this?) Besides, you don't have to pay for it. Linux (and Unix in > general) would kick serious ass as an application server if the managment > tools for such a setup were on par with those in the windows world. From tanner at real-time.com Tue May 22 16:46:58 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mail-abuse.org charging for zone transfers? In-Reply-To: ; from Troy.A.Johnson@state.mn.us on Tue, May 22, 2001 at 04:40:04PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010522164658.F12136@real-time.com> Quoting Troy Johnson (Troy.A.Johnson@state.mn.us): > I do not dispute that they are charging money for your efforts to keep them > informed of their business. It seems a lame deal -- I think you should get a > credit of some kind for helping them stay successful, especially in such > quantities. > > But I wanted to know how much they are charging. http://www.mail-abuse.org/rbl/pricing.html -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From mpaulsen at charter.net Tue May 22 16:58:03 2001 From: mpaulsen at charter.net (Mike Paulsen) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mail-abuse.org charging for zone transfers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010522163739.025db7b0@pop.charter.net> At 04:17 PM 5/22/01, Troy wrote: >I think that was why they started blackhole-ing their competition. The >market was a little too open. > >But, since they started getting a little more up-itty (Macromedia) and >started charging for once free services, they might not stay on top of >their game for long. I suppose it might depend on how much they're >charging: subsistance money vs. "getting fat off of Bob's hard (but free) >labor" money. How much is it? The direct queries are still available without charge. The pricing for zone transfer subscriptions are published at http://www.mail-abuse.org/rbl/pricing.html Also of note: " Educational institutions, non-profits, and members of selected ISP trade associations may (at our sole discretion) be eligible for discounts; please contact us with a proposal. " (Yeah, I work for MAPS. No I'm not going to debate MAPS policies here.) From chanson at walkermeth.org Tue May 22 17:00:28 2001 From: chanson at walkermeth.org (Chuck Hanson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1019 - 17 msgs (ChuckIsOutRule: ) Message-ID: Hi. I'll be out of the office through June 4th. Please contact the Help Desk for any issues. \\\|/// \\ - - // ( @ @ ) -----oOOo--(_)-oOOo-------------------------------------------- I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have. - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826) From seg at haxxed.com Tue May 22 17:11:08 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Multiple X sessions References: <10105221749.AA18886@dart.dartdist.com> <990553220.3b0aa484d1d7d@dragon> <20010522124911.A19108@gordo.space.umn.edu> <3B0AABB0.59110F43@ltiflex.com> <3B0ADDB9.D6CF716@eetc.com> Message-ID: <3B0AE3FC.660E6CA6@haxxed.com> Simeon Johnston wrote: > > Anybody know if this is possible with winterms? I got a few Wyse Winterm > 2310(Some letters here) and was wondering if it was possible to use them as > Xterminals. They are also VT220, VT100 and VT52 terminals ( Built in to every > one of them. Very cool ) with a type-II PCMCIA slot for upgrades. Pretty cool > little machines but I have no intention of setting up a windows server and > running winterms. > Is it possible to run Xwindows on one of these? Anyone ever used them? > Just wondering. It would be really cool to set some of these up. > I think they also work with CIPE ( I think that's it. Don't have the specs > right in front of me though ) also. http://www.networkcomputing.com/1015/1015sp3.html It runs WinCE but apparently its the same hardware as the ones that run Linux. Hmmm... Firmware hacking anyone? Hasn't someone reverse engineered Citrix ICA yet? From tanner at real-time.com Tue May 22 17:06:32 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cisco Security Advisory: More multiple vulnerabilities in CBOS Message-ID: <20010522170632.J12136@real-time.com> Fun stuff! Not really Linux related, but since many of you are dsl. > Cisco Security Advisory: More multiple vulnerabilities in CBOS > > Revision 1.0 > > For public release 2001 May 22 08:00 (GMT -0800) > ______________________________________________________________________ > > Summary > > Multiple vulnerabilities have been identified and fixed in CBOS, an > operating system for the Cisco 600 family of routers. > * Cisco CBOS Software contains a flaw that permits the successful > prediction of TCP Initial Sequence Numbers. It only affects the > security of TCP connections that originate or terminate on the > affected Cisco device itself; it does not apply to TCP traffic > forwarded through the affected device in transit between two other > hosts. > This vulnerability is documented as Cisco bug ID CSCds16078. > * A Cisco 600 router may stop passing the traffic and responding to > the console when an ECHO REQUEST packet with the record route > option is routed through it. > This vulnerability is documented as Cisco bug ID CSCds30150. > * Passwords, exec and enable, are stored in the cleartext in the > NVRAM. > This vulnerability is documented as Cisco bug ID CSCdt04882. > * When multiple, large ECHO REPLY packets are routed through an > affected Cisco 600 router, it will enter the ROMMON mode and stop > passing any further traffic. > This vulnerability is documented as Cisco bug ID CSCds74567. > > The following releases of CBOS are containing all of mentioned > vulnerabilities: 2.0.1, 2.1.0, 2.1.0a, 2.2.0, 2.2.1, 2.2.1a, 2.3, > 2.3.2, 2.3.5, 2.3.7 and 2.3.8. > > These vulnerabilities are fixed in the following CBOS releases: 2.3.9, > 2.4.1 and 2.4.2. Customers are urged to upgrade to releases that are > not vulnerable as shown in detail in the section Software Versions and > Fixes below. > > This advisory is available at the > http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/707/CBOS-multiple2-pub.html. > > Affected Products > > The affected models are: 627, 633, 673, 675, 675E, 677, 677i and 678. > > These models are vulnerable if they run any of the following, or > earlier, CBOS releases: 2.0.1, 2.1.0, 2.1.0a, 2.2.0, 2.2.1, 2.2.1a, > 2.3, 2.3.2, 2.3.5, 2.3.7 and 2.3.8. > > No other releases of CBOS software are affected by these > vulnerabilities. No other Cisco products are affected by these > vulnerabilities. > > These vulnerabilities are fixed in the following CBOS releases: 2.3.9, > 2.4.1 and 2.4.2. > > Details > > CSCds16078 > See also > http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/707/ios-tcp-isn-random-pub. > shtml > > TCP sequence numbers are 32-bit integers in the circular range > of 0 to 4,294,967,295. The host devices at both ends of a TCP > connection exchange an Initial Sequence Number (ISN) selected > at random from that range as part of the setup of a new TCP > connection. > > This method provides reasonably good protection against > accidental receipt of unintended data. However, to guard > against malicious use, it should not be possible for an > attacker to infer a particular number in the sequence. If the > initial sequence number is not chosen randomly or if it is > incremented in a non-random manner between the initialization > of subsequent TCP sessions, then it is possible, with varying > degrees of success, to forge one half of a TCP connection with > another host in order to gain access to that host, or hijack an > existing connection between two hosts in order to compromise > the contents of the TCP connection. To guard against such > compromises, ISNs should be generated as randomly as possible. > > CSCds30150 > By sending ICMP ECHO REQUEST packets (ping) with the IP Record > Route option set it is possible to freeze a Cisco 600 router. > This can be done either by sending the specially crafted packet > or by specifying the "-r" option on the most ping programs. > > The packet should not be destined to a router itself. > > CSCdt04882 > The exec and enable passwords are stored in the cleartext in > NVRAM. Similarly, they are also stored in the cleartext in the > configuration file if one is stored on a computer. Anyone who > is in a position to see a router's configuration, either > directly from the device or in the file on a computer, can > learn the passwords. > > This vulnerability is corrected by storing only an MD5 hash of > the password in both NVRAM and in the configuration file, and > the plaintext password itself is never retained. > > CSCds74567 > When multiple ICMP ECHO REPLY packets, non standard size, are > passed through the affected device the device will stop passing > any further traffic. Packets must be larger than the usual size > (64 bytes) but that can be easily accomplished either by > crafting packets or by adjusting the response size, either via > command line or by modifying the program source. > > Impact > > CSCds16078 > Forged packets can be injected into a network from a location > outside its boundary so that they are trusted as authentic by > the receiving host, thus resulting in a failure of integrity. > Such packets could be crafted to gain access or make some other > modification to the receiving system in order to attain some > goal, such as gaining unauthorized interactive access to a > system or compromising stored data. From a position within the > network where it is possible to receive the return traffic (but > not necessarily in a position that is directly in the traffic > path), a greater range of violations is possible. For example, > the contents of a message could be diverted, modified, and then > returned to the traffic flow again, causing a failure of > integrity and a possible failure of confidentiality. NOTE: Any > compromise using this vulnerability is only possible for TCP > sessions that originate or terminate on the affected Cisco > device itself. It does not apply to TCP traffic that is merely > forwarded through the device. > > CSCds30150 > It is possible to cause the Denial-of-Service. > > CSCdt04882 > Anyone who is in a position to see a router's configuration, > either directly from the device or in the file on a computer, > can learn the exec and enable passwords. Armed with that > knowledge, an attacker can log into the device and change the > router's configuration. > > This vulnerability can be even more dangerous if the ISP is > using the same passwords for all of the devices which it > manages. Such practice, using the same passwords for multiple > devices, is strongly discouraged. > > CSCds74567 > It is possible to cause the Denial-of-Service to many affected > devices. > > Software Versions and Fixes > > The following table summarizes the CBOS software releases affected by > the vulnerabilities described in this notice and scheduled dates on > which the earliest corresponding fixed releases will be available. > > +===========+================+=====================================+ > | | | | > | Release | Description or | Availability of Repaired Releases | > | | Platform |=====================================+ > | | | General Availability (GA) | > +===========+================+=====================================+ > | All | All platforms | 2.3.9 | > | releases | | 2001-Mart-19 | > +-----------+----------------+-------------------------------------+ > | All | All platforms | 2.4.1 | > | releases | | 2000-December-11 | > +-----------+----------------+-------------------------------------+ > | All | All platforms | 2.4.2 | > | releases | | 2001-May-14 | > +===========+================+=====================================+ > > Obtaining Fixed Software > > Cisco is offering free software upgrades to eliminate this > vulnerability for all affected customers. > > Customers with contracts should obtain upgraded software through their > regular update channels. For most customers, this means that upgrades > should be obtained via the point-of-sale or, if they posses a Cisco > Connection Online account, they can download it from the Software > Center on Cisco's Worldwide Web site at http://www.cisco.com. > > Customers without contracts should get their upgrades by contacting > the Cisco Technical Assistance Center (TAC). TAC contacts are as > follows: > * +1 800 553 2447 (toll-free from within North America) > * +1 408 526 7209 (toll call from anywhere in the world) > * e-mail: tac@cisco.com > > Give the URL of this notice as evidence of your entitlement to a > free upgrade. Free upgrades for non-contract customers must be > requested through the TAC. > > Please do not contact either "psirt@cisco.com" or > "security-alert@cisco.com" for software upgrades. > > Workarounds > > CSCds16078 > There is no workaround. > > CSCds30150 > There is no workaround. > > CSCdt04882 > There is no workaround. > > CSCds74567 > There is no workaround. > > Exploitation and Public Announcements > > Vulnerabilitiy CSCds30150 has been made public on VULN-DEV list. > > Altough we have not seen public discussion of vulnerability CSCdt04882 > we understand that it is commonly known among users. > > Vulnerability CSCds74567 has been reported to us by a customer. > > Status of This Notice: FINAL > > This is a final notice. Although Cisco cannot guarantee the accuracy > of all statements in this notice, all of the facts have been checked > to the best of our ability. Cisco does not anticipate issuing updated > versions of this notice unless there is some material change in the > facts. Should there be a significant change in the facts, Cisco may > update this notice. > > Distribution > > This notice will be posted on Cisco's Worldwide Web site at > http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/707/CBOS-multiple2-pub.html. In > addition to Worldwide Web posting, a text version of this notice is > clear-signed with the Cisco PSIRT PGP key and is posted to the > following e-mail and Usenet news recipients: > * cust-security-announce@cisco.com > * bugtraq@securityfocus.com > * first-teams@first.org (includes CERT/CC) > * cisco@spot.colorado.edu > * comp.dcom.sys.cisco > * firewalls@lists.gnac.com > * Various internal Cisco mailing lists > > Future updates of this notice, if any, will be placed on Cisco's > Worldwide Web server, but may or may not be actively announced on > mailing lists or newsgroups. Users concerned about this problem are > encouraged to check the URL given above for any updates. > > Revision History > > Revision 1.0 2001-May-22 08:00 GMT-0800 Public release > > Cisco Security Procedures > > Complete information on reporting security vulnerabilities in Cisco > products, obtaining assistance with security incidents, and > registering to receive security information from Cisco, is available > on Cisco's Worldwide Web site at > http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/707/sec_incident_response.shtml. > This includes instructions for press inquiries regarding Cisco > security notices. > _________________________________________________________________ > > This notice is Copyright 2000 by Cisco Systems, Inc. This notice may > be redistributed freely after the release date given at the top of the > text, provided that redistributed copies are complete and unmodified, > and include all date and version information. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From tanner at real-time.com Tue May 22 17:08:39 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mail-abuse.org charging for zone transfers? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010522163739.025db7b0@pop.charter.net>; from mpaulsen@charter.net on Tue, May 22, 2001 at 04:58:03PM -0500 References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010522163739.025db7b0@pop.charter.net> Message-ID: <20010522170839.K12136@real-time.com> Quoting Mike Paulsen (mpaulsen@charter.net): > (Yeah, I work for MAPS. No I'm not going to debate MAPS policies here.) > Then you should have not even made this statement. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From atebbe at real-time.com Tue May 22 17:02:42 2001 From: atebbe at real-time.com (Amy Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] Strictly Business Message-ID: <20010522170242.U4669@real-time.com> TCLUG will be having a booth at Strictly Business again this year. Dates: Wed & Thursday, March 23 & 24 Time: 10am-5pm Booth: 2915 (along the back wall) We'd appreciate any TCLUGers who can stop by and promote linux and TCLUG at the booth. We had several who did that last year and it really helped. Bob will be doing the "What is Linux" presentation Thursday, 3/24 2-5pm in Room 203A. Hope to see you there... -- Amy Tanner Voice: 952.943.8700 Real Time Enterprises, Inc. Fax: 952.943.8500 amy@real-time.com http://www.real-time.com GPG Fingerprint: DAC7 E1B2 80D9 3099 1A20 0817 2DFE 5086 81B3 5466 _______________________________________________ tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce From atebbe at real-time.com Tue May 22 17:08:19 2001 From: atebbe at real-time.com (Amy Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] Strictly Business In-Reply-To: <20010522170242.U4669@real-time.com>; from atebbe@real-time.com on Tue, May 22, 2001 at 05:02:42PM -0500 References: <20010522170242.U4669@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010522170819.Y4669@real-time.com> Make that May 23 and 24, not March... Sorry On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 05:02:42PM -0500, Amy Tanner (atebbe@real-time.com) wrote: > TCLUG will be having a booth at Strictly Business again this year. > > Dates: Wed & Thursday, March 23 & 24 > Time: 10am-5pm > > Booth: 2915 (along the back wall) > > We'd appreciate any TCLUGers who can stop by and promote linux and TCLUG > at the booth. We had several who did that last year and it really helped. > > Bob will be doing the "What is Linux" presentation Thursday, 3/24 2-5pm > in Room 203A. > > Hope to see you there... > > -- > Amy Tanner Voice: 952.943.8700 > Real Time Enterprises, Inc. Fax: 952.943.8500 > amy@real-time.com http://www.real-time.com > GPG Fingerprint: DAC7 E1B2 80D9 3099 1A20 0817 2DFE 5086 81B3 5466 > _______________________________________________ > tclug-announce mailing list > tclug-announce@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce > -- Amy Tanner Voice: 952.943.8700 Real Time Enterprises, Inc. Fax: 952.943.8500 amy@real-time.com http://www.real-time.com GPG Fingerprint: DAC7 E1B2 80D9 3099 1A20 0817 2DFE 5086 81B3 5466 _______________________________________________ tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Tue May 22 17:23:54 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mail-abuse.org charging for zone transfers? Message-ID: Thank you, Bob and Mike (no debates, just complaints ;-). RBL: DNS query Free, no subscription required. DNS zone transfer $700 per nameserver plus $50 per 1,000 users BGP feed $1000 per router RBL+ (RBL, RSS, DUL): Query Mode $1500/year for sites up to 1000 users; $750/year per additional 500 users. Transfer Mode $1,250/year/nameserver, plus $50 per 1,000 users Well, it looks interesting. If I paid real money for it, I don't know how much effort I would put forth in the way of submitting blocking requests. I would feel like the unpaid member of the MAPS team, or that I am paying for the service twice. >>> tanner@real-time.com 05/22/01 04:46PM >>> Quoting Troy Johnson (Troy.A.Johnson@state.mn.us): > I do not dispute that they are charging money for your efforts to keep them > informed of their business. It seems a lame deal -- I think you should get a > credit of some kind for helping them stay successful, especially in such > quantities. > > But I wanted to know how much they are charging. http://www.mail-abuse.org/rbl/pricing.html -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at real-time.com Tue May 22 17:34:24 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] .deb package builder? Message-ID: <20010522173424.Q12136@real-time.com> I work on 2 open source projects and both of them are looking for .deb package builders. The first is crossfire it's graphical multi-user 2d tile-based role playing game similar to Moria, Angband, Omega, Nethack, Rogue, Gauntlet, and Muds. For more details, Official Web Site: http://crossfire.real-time.com Developer Web Site: http://sourceforge.net/projects/crossfire/ http://freshmeat.net/projects/crossfire/ In my ample non-working hours I code for the server and we host a public crossfire server here at Real Time (metalforge.real-time.com). We are desperately looking for a .deb package builder. The second project is OpenNMS, yes, the same guys who where here last LUG meeting. They have RPMs, which I also help maintain, and they are looking for .deb package builders. Official Web site: http://www.opennms.org I'll step off my cheap-plug soap box now. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From mpaulsen at charter.net Tue May 22 18:18:27 2001 From: mpaulsen at charter.net (Mike Paulsen) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mail-abuse.org charging for zone transfers? In-Reply-To: <20010522170839.K12136@real-time.com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010522163739.025db7b0@pop.charter.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20010522163739.025db7b0@pop.charter.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010522175510.0225b1d0@pop.charter.net> At 05:08 PM 5/22/01, Bob wrote: >Quoting Mike Paulsen (mpaulsen@charter.net): > > (Yeah, I work for MAPS. No I'm not going to debate MAPS policies here.) > > > >Then you should have not even made this statement. I'm not sure I understand your objection. Let me re-phrase: I work for MAPS and am happy to answer general questions. However, I won't get into MAPS good/ MAPS bad discussions. -- Mike. From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 22 18:20:49 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] setuid (RAM meter) In-Reply-To: <20010522173424.Q12136@real-time.com> Message-ID: In writing the RAM meter driver, I can open the serial port and talk to it. It looks like there's like totally nothing to the driver. The question I have is that generally users don't have permission to open /dev/ttyS0, so you either run the program as root (works) or code it to do a setuid(0). I think that's right, but I've never mucked with the uid stuff much and never from a programming end. Anyone got a better suggestion than "just run it as root?" (Maybe that's not a bad idea anyway.) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From chanson at walkermeth.org Tue May 22 18:23:16 2001 From: chanson at walkermeth.org (Chuck Hanson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1020 - 11 msgs (ChuckIsOutRule: ) Message-ID: Hi. I'll be out of the office through June 4th. Please contact the Help Desk for any issues. \\\|/// \\ - - // ( @ @ ) -----oOOo--(_)-oOOo-------------------------------------------- I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have. - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826) From thefishyone at hotmail.com Tue May 22 18:34:59 2001 From: thefishyone at hotmail.com (Matt Waters) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kernel 2.4.x Message-ID: >From: Phil Mendelsohn >Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org >To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org >Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Kernel 2.4.x >Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 16:14:55 -0500 (CDT) > >On Tue, 22 May 2001, Matt Waters wrote: > > > I know. Problem is, I didn't know it was a winmodem 'till it was too >late. > > > >It's almost never too late with Best Buy. Take it back. > >-- >"To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous > >_______________________________________________ >tclug-list mailing list >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list Problem is, I've had the thing for over a year, and don't have the original packaging or the receipt. I originally purchased the thing after the dude there told me it was a real modem, and I was dumb enough to believe him. I had already thrown out the receipt and box by the time I figured out it was a winmodem. ---------- The Fishy One's Infinite Wisdom #15: "A man doesn't need a scarecrow if he's got penguins." New wisdom every week! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jethro at freakzilla.com Tue May 22 18:52:42 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] setuid (RAM meter) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, On Tue, 22 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > Anyone got a better suggestion than "just run it as root?" (Maybe > that's not a bad idea anyway.) Well, if it's running as a daemon from startup scripts, it's a non-issue. Otherwise, tell people to chmod /dev/ttyS0. -Yaron -- From andy at theasis.com Tue May 22 13:56:02 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Game order status? In-Reply-To: <20010522123631.U28763@ringworld.org> Message-ID: > * andy@theasis.com [010517 17:17]: > > > > > Speaking of Tribes 2, has anything happened with the Loki games order? > > No, because I've been travelling or otherwise swamped, and therefore never > > got back to the Loki salesperson-contact with further questions on what to > > do. > > Status? I've sent a query about some details to Kayt Sorhaindo, the sales contact at Loki. I still have not heard back from her. Andy From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 22 19:37:45 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] setuid (RAM meter) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 May 2001, Yaron wrote: > On Tue, 22 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > > Anyone got a better suggestion than "just run it as root?" (Maybe > > that's not a bad idea anyway.) > > Well, if it's running as a daemon from startup scripts, it's a non-issue. > > Otherwise, tell people to chmod /dev/ttyS0. A solution that means I'm off the hook... I like it! -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 22 19:55:37 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bootstrapping RPM on Solaris 2.6/7 Message-ID: <20010522195537.1dc1da13.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> I guess this is somewhat off-topic, but it involves making other operating systems more Linux-like... Has anyone recently gone through the process of building and using RPM on Solaris 2.6/7? I'm in the process of figuring out how to put everything together properly. I think I've got a decent sequence figured out, though I still have to try it. Any pointers would be helpful. Also, I've been growing accustomed to the way things are laid out in RedHat, and I'm wondering if it would be a Bad Idea to try and put the files in similar places (i.e. directly in /usr/bin, /etc, and so forth), rather than dumping everything in /usr/local, like most Solaris stuff. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ If you're not part of the / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ solution, you're part of \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) the precipitate. [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From fertch at mninter.net Tue May 22 19:59:20 2001 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gnome help References: Message-ID: <3B0B0B68.62393843@mninter.net> Okay, cool. got it figured out. Don't care for the deskguide however. Eww... Thanks. shawn andy@theasis.com wrote: > > You mean the little tiles that correspond to each window? > Right click on the toolbar, then --> Applets --> Utility --> Tasklist. > I also find that sometimes I lose Applets --> Utility -->Desk Guide > > A. > > > Okay, this is probably way too simple but I can't figure it out. On my > > desktop at home, on the Gnome toolbar (1.2.0) I lost the part of the bar > > that shows the applications that running. Anyone know where to turn > > this back on? I've looked in the control panel properties but don't see > > anything. > > > > Thanks, > > Shawn From tanner at real-time.com Tue May 22 20:38:02 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bootstrapping RPM on Solaris 2.6/7 In-Reply-To: <20010522195537.1dc1da13.hick0088@tc.umn.edu>; from hick0088@tc.umn.edu on Tue, May 22, 2001 at 07:55:37PM -0500 References: <20010522195537.1dc1da13.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010522203802.D23363@real-time.com> Quoting Mike Hicks (hick0088@tc.umn.edu): > I guess this is somewhat off-topic, but it involves making other operating > systems more Linux-like... > > Has anyone recently gone through the process of building and using RPM on > Solaris 2.6/7? I'm in the process of figuring out how to put everything > together properly. I think I've got a decent sequence figured out, though > I still have to try it. Any pointers would be helpful. > > Also, I've been growing accustomed to the way things are laid out in > RedHat, and I'm wondering if it would be a Bad Idea to try and put the > files in similar places (i.e. directly in /usr/bin, /etc, and so forth), > rather than dumping everything in /usr/local, like most Solaris stuff. > http://www.solaris.rpm.org It's here at Real Time, but I mostly dropped the project once we went all Linux. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From nate at nerp.net Tue May 22 20:43:48 2001 From: nate at nerp.net (Nate Sanders) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ambient temperature probes References: <20010515190959.7e4590d6.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3B0B15D4.7C4CB4F8@nerp.net> At my work we just use the Smart card plugin on a UPS Smart-1400. I wrote a few perl scripts to alert us to different temperature levels and so forth. I can offer more details to anyone who's curious. Mike Hicks wrote: > I'm looking for a good way to keep watch over the temperature in the > server room at work.. I know that there are a number of temperature > probes and stuff out there, but I haven't ever seen any of them in > operation. Preferably, I'd just like something that I can plug into a > parallel port or something, and that doesn't require me soldering parts > together (my soldering skillz aren't that great ;-) > > Keep in mind that I may have to plug this into a laptop, so nothing that > requires some sort of a host adapter inside a PC.. > > -- > _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ A seminar on Time Travel > / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ will be held two weeks > \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) ago. > [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Nate Sanders nate@chef.nerp.net http://www.damnation.net IRC: darkskull@NEWNET From esper at sherohman.org Tue May 22 21:52:27 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1020 - 11 msgs (ChuckIsOutRule: ) In-Reply-To: ; from chanson@walkermeth.org on Tue, May 22, 2001 at 06:23:16PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010522215227.A31568@sherohman.org> Yeah, I've got an issue. Vacation autoresponders should, at the very least, be smart enough to ignore list messages. There are even those who say that, for security purposes, they should ignore all internet mail and reply only to internal messages. (Or, from the practical side, those of us who aren't at walkermeth.org don't know how to contact the heldesk, so why are we being told to do so?) And then there are those who just consider vacation autoresponders to be a blight upon the internet in general. On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 06:23:16PM -0500, Chuck Hanson wrote: > Hi. > I'll be out of the office through June 4th. Please contact the Help Desk for any issues. > > \\\|/// > \\ - - // > ( @ @ ) > -----oOOo--(_)-oOOo-------------------------------------------- > I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have. > - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826) > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.1: GCS d? s+: a- C++ UL++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w---$ O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv b+ DI++++ D G e* h+ r y+ From jpschewe at mtu.net Tue May 22 22:45:47 2001 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] hardware recommendation Message-ID: I found a place I can get this tape drive from for $180, however it's got a cracked loader tray that'll probably cost $200 to fix. What do you all think of using tape vs hard drives for backup? This isn't a production environment, just a small network in my house of 20 or so GB. http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.asp?edc=173473 -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From tanner at real-time.com Tue May 22 23:06:15 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] hotmail.com is the spam source Message-ID: <20010522230615.A5934@real-time.com> Whomever talked about a script signing up and signing off the list to spam, your where right. The confirm with approval caught the spambot in action. And our friends(?) over at hotmail are where the spam source comes from. So, I am going to temp block all posting from hotmail.com to the list. I have contacted the abuse people at hotmail and got their nice form letter back (I hate these). So here it is in all caps. YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO POST TO THIS LIST IF YOU ARE USING HOTMAIL!! I'll leave the ban up until June 1st. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From ben at nerp.net Tue May 22 23:10:48 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] hotmail.com is the spam source In-Reply-To: <20010522230615.A5934@real-time.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- good work bob.. thanks for all the hard work in taking care of this. Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Tue, 22 May 2001, Bob Tanner wrote: > Whomever talked about a script signing up and signing off the list to spam, your > where right. > > The confirm with approval caught the spambot in action. > > And our friends(?) over at hotmail are where the spam source comes from. > > So, I am going to temp block all posting from hotmail.com to the list. > > I have contacted the abuse people at hotmail and got their nice form letter > back (I hate these). > > So here it is in all caps. > > YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO POST TO THIS LIST IF YOU ARE USING HOTMAIL!! > > I'll leave the ban up until June 1st. > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOws4SstpDhsSpvgtAQHL0gQAlTw3KZiFfoMt+BEkjDfPplNsqA4mYBuF TQvLA9uUHHhCNBpQhHZwtrLppmRiFUtw5I/Z3CW0TYhxLG330mNZPU3nbcNUblfa nSUpGcEZ7sTTtoLoU+irG3jJYjvSbjlAbpATAP/RQBvYXhDND1G/LMhB8n9iK4W+ kvGu77fo3vE= =wNfs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 22 23:28:06 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] hardware recommendation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 22 May 2001, Jon Schewe wrote: > I found a place I can get this tape drive from for $180, however it's got a > cracked loader tray that'll probably cost $200 to fix. Bummer. I'd look for a better one, unless it's some hella tape drive. > What do you all think of using tape vs hard drives for backup? Who uses hard drives? I'd put a smiley, but actually I want to know! -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 22 23:30:00 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] hotmail.com is the spam source In-Reply-To: <20010522230615.A5934@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 May 2001, Bob Tanner wrote: > YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO POST TO THIS LIST IF YOU ARE USING HOTMAIL!! > > I'll leave the ban up until June 1st. That's June 1, 2100, right? Isn't hotmail MSN? Nice work, Bob. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mccloud at wiredhot.net Tue May 22 23:33:02 2001 From: mccloud at wiredhot.net (Bob McCloud) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] hotmail.com is the spam source In-Reply-To: <20010522230615.A5934@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B0AF72E.26964.7AF5A8F@localhost> I think that script is hanging on long enough to harvest address's. I got an email this evening addressed to a non-existant user advertising, of all things, linux help. May or may not be related, but if anyone else got the same email we'll know for sure. Bob On 22 May 2001, at 23:06, Bob Tanner wrote: > Whomever talked about a script signing up and signing off the list to > spam, your where right. > > The confirm with approval caught the spambot in action. > > And our friends(?) over at hotmail are where the spam source comes > from. > > So, I am going to temp block all posting from hotmail.com to the list. > > I have contacted the abuse people at hotmail and got their nice form > letter back (I hate these). > > So here it is in all caps. > > YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO POST TO THIS LIST IF YOU ARE USING HOTMAIL!! > > I'll leave the ban up until June 1st. > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue May 22 23:35:46 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Tiny little analog RAM success In-Reply-To: <20010522230615.A5934@real-time.com> Message-ID: Pleased to announce the first tiny little working piece of the RAM meter. I can make the serial output wiggle and show up on a scope. I should be able to approximate useful pulse width modulation by the weekend. (It's not hard, I just have to work around the two kids I'm watching during the day -- they like to play with scope probes!) I'll try and put up a web page for it. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From chanson at walkermeth.org Tue May 22 23:38:10 2001 From: chanson at walkermeth.org (Chuck Hanson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1021 - 18 msgs (ChuckIsOutRule: ) Message-ID: Hi. I'll be out of the office through June 4th. Please contact the Help Desk for any issues. \\\|/// \\ - - // ( @ @ ) -----oOOo--(_)-oOOo-------------------------------------------- I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have. - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826) From scanman at mninter.net Tue May 22 23:45:54 2001 From: scanman at mninter.net (ScanMan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Multiple X sessions References: <10105221749.AA18886@dart.dartdist.com> Message-ID: <3B0B4082.6040603@mninter.net> open up "/etc/X11/xdm/Xservers" on the last line, you should see this: :0 local /usr/X11R6/bin/X add the following after that: :1 local /usr/X11R6/bin/X :1 :2 local /usr/X11R6/bin/X :2 :3 local /usr/X11R6/bin/X :3 etc, etc, etc.... jspinti@dart.dartdist.com wrote: >Over the weekend I was reading all kinds of reviews about Win XP >and its ability to allow multiple logins. This was advertised as >some great advance...the other session was not suspended or closed, >but backgrounded until the person logged back in. The person who >was currently the foreground session had priority, etc. > >Now, here's the point. I have 5 people who use my machines at >home and Linux has 6 consoles. I run Mandrake 8.0 and usually >KDE (that's part of the rub, more than one gui). I know it is >possible to run multiple X sessions on a single machine and >bounce between them with ctl-alt-F7 - F12. How can I set up >each user's environment so that they would default to a >different X session from anyone else? Then I would have the >same "new" functionality that XP claims it is innovating, >but would not need to run out and upgrade all my machines' >memory and processors and pay the big $$$ for XP, etc... > >This could be a cool hack to publish somewhere in some HOW-TO, >unless it already exists?? > >Thanks, > >James Spinti >jspinti@dartdist.com >952-368-3278 x396 >fax 952-368-3255 >_______________________________________________ >tclug-list mailing list >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From tanner at real-time.com Tue May 22 23:56:42 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] hotmail.com is the spam source In-Reply-To: <3B0AF72E.26964.7AF5A8F@localhost>; from mccloud@wiredhot.net on Tue, May 22, 2001 at 11:33:02PM -0500 References: <20010522230615.A5934@real-time.com> <3B0AF72E.26964.7AF5A8F@localhost> Message-ID: <20010522235642.F5934@real-time.com> Quoting Bob McCloud (mccloud@wiredhot.net): > I think that script is hanging on long enough to harvest address's. I > got an email this evening addressed to a non-existant user > advertising, of all things, linux help. May or may not be related, but > if anyone else got the same email we'll know for sure. They can harvest your username from the archives, usenet, etc. I am looking at spambot poisoning tonight and see if that helps. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Wed May 23 08:06:37 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mail-abuse.org charging for zone transfers? In-Reply-To: <20010522161228.B15231@sorry.cs.umn.edu>; from dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu on Tue, May 22, 2001 at 04:12:28PM -0500 References: <20010522155554.Z3924@real-time.com> <20010522161228.B15231@sorry.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010523080637.V28763@ringworld.org> * dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu [010522 16:14]: > And now that so many people seem to hate Paul Vixie, no one would just Hey, *I* love paul vixie. :) Anywho, yeah, I got wind of the RBL changes not too long ago... I've just been using query 'cause i dont get that much volume. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010523/583b0d3f/attachment.pgp From linabery at mm.com Wed May 23 08:27:34 2001 From: linabery at mm.com (Steven M Linabery) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] UPS suggestions Message-ID: Hi, I've finally convinced my part-time employer to get a block of static IPs and a dedicated Internet connection. Now that I have some mission-critical linux boxes online, I want to make sure they (and especially the gateway to the subnet of [insert your favorite derogatory name for Windows] boxes) don't get hosed if some cleaning person decides to vacuum the server room and needs an outlet (ok, the server room is locked, so that wouldn't happen). So. I searched the tclug mailing lists but got no hits on "ups". Does anyone want to recommend hardware? I will have 4-5 boxes (and one monitor) when all is said and done. Thanks, Steve Linabery From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed May 23 08:34:14 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] S/390 Freebies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Did someone say they knew IBM was going to open an S/390 to the public? It's on the front page of slashdot this morning, but I don't know if it's old news or not. There are a few caveats. But I know there's a few people with some interest... -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From chanson at walkermeth.org Wed May 23 08:50:12 2001 From: chanson at walkermeth.org (Chuck Hanson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1021 - 18 msgs (ChuckIsOutRule: ) Message-ID: Hi. I'll be out of the office through June 4th. Please contact the Help Desk for any issues. \\\|/// \\ - - // ( @ @ ) -----oOOo--(_)-oOOo-------------------------------------------- I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have. - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826) From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed May 23 08:53:02 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 2 site weirdnesses Message-ID: Hey, what happened? www.granitecanyon.com isn't reachable from here since suppertime yesterday. What's with the address it's routin to on line 13? phil@dee:~ $ tracepath www.granitecanyon.com 1?: [LOCALHOST] pmtu 1500 1?: 65.165.40.38 2?: 208.20.203.30 3?: 208.20.203.254 4?: 144.228.52.125 5?: 144.232.10.97 6?: 144.232.18.58 7?: 144.232.11.130 8?: 144.232.194.6 asymm 9 9?: 129.250.4.38 asymm 10 10?: 129.250.2.77 asymm 15 11?: 129.250.30.21 asymm 14 12?: 129.250.53.146 asymm 15 13?: 192.168.200.6 asymm 16 14: no reply (bunch of no replies deleted) ----------- And www.linuxdocs.org dumps you to some HOWTO index and the front page is gone. What's worse, there are banners on the pages -- in the HOWTOs -- and I swear they weren't there yesterday. Is this like a net version of twilight zone, or is it just me? -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From simeonuj at eetc.com Wed May 23 08:55:26 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] hardware recommendation References: Message-ID: <3B0BC14C.D711784F@eetc.com> Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On 22 May 2001, Jon Schewe wrote: > > > I found a place I can get this tape drive from for $180, however it's got a > > cracked loader tray that'll probably cost $200 to fix. > > Bummer. I'd look for a better one, unless it's some hella tape drive. I would look for something smaller then. A 7 tape autoloader seems to be kinda overkill. 20GB? Does that include OS or is that just storage capacity? If your OS goes bad I would recomend reinstall instead of pulling it from backup. I would seriously look at some other technologies. DLT is really nice and can get 40-80 GB per tape depending on the drive. I personally use DLT and think they are very nice. They may be more expensive but they are more reliable than cassette like tapes simply because of the design. I have no idea what the comparison is between them on long term storage and shock resistance -- stuff like that -- but I have used them for a couple of years and never had one go bad or get corrupted. For something as small as that you could just get a CD-RW and pick and choose what you want to backup. Short answer - Don't go for it man. Get a cheaper one that fits your needs better. > > What do you all think of using tape vs hard drives for backup? > > Who uses hard drives? I'd put a smiley, but actually I want to know! I've heard of people using HD instead of Tape but not as the only backup. Just as a primary backup with tape as a secondary long term storage. HD are less reliable but much faster for restoring. sim From jwanderson at uswest.net Wed May 23 09:07:49 2001 From: jwanderson at uswest.net (Jay W. Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] S/390 Freebies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200105231407.f4NE7oK11027@sprite.real-time.com> Phil - I had sent this to Bob a couple of weeks ago: Jay ------- Forwarded message follows ------- From: Jay W. Anderson To: Bob Tanner Subject: (Fwd) Fw: [nylug-talk] URL For Free Access to IBM S390 Linux C Date sent: Fri, 4 May 2001 08:42:17 -0500 Bob - This came across the redhat-install list today. Thought that you might be interested. Jay ------- Forwarded message follows ------- Date sent: Thu, 3 May 2001 09:48:26 -0400 From: "Danny" To: "Kalum / Grendel" , " " Subject: Fw: [nylug-talk] URL For Free Access to IBM S390 Linux Community Development System ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Gleason" To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 12:48 PM Subject: [nylug-talk] URL For Free Access to IBM S390 Linux Community Development System > Thanks to Len Santalucia for making this possible. Hack away > everyone and let's discuss our results on the list. > > - Jim > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Jim Gleason VA Linux Systems > email: jim@valinux.com http://www.valinux.com > phone: 212-858-7684 Pres. New York Linux Users Group > fax: 212-858-7685 http://www.nylug.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 20:09:59 -0400 > From: Leonard Santalucia > To: jim@valinux.com > Subject: URL For Linux Community Development System > > Jim, > > Great news! Our Linux Community Development System has been approved. > Registration is now open. > > The Linux Community Development System (the 'Service'), > a Service provided by IBM. The Service > provides access to Linux on a S/390 environment for the > purpose of providing the Open Source > community with a platform to develop, port and/or test > drive their products or applications on this platform. We > anticipate the majority of users to include > entrepreneur developers/vendors that otherwise might not have the > opportunity to test/port their code to the S/390 > platform. However, we invite all interested parties that meet the > established terms and conditions to register and > experience "Linux for S/390". > > The web site is highlighted below. Please post on NYLUG forum. Please let > me know if you have any questions. > > http://www.ibm.com/servers/eserver/zseries/os/linux/lcds/ > > > Regards, > > (Embedded image moved to file: pic16838.pcx) > > Leonard J. Santalucia > Senior Consulting Sales Specialist & Certified Professional > IBM Americas eServer Linux Sales and Marketing > Tieline 340-5957 <> Outside 212-493-5957 > Cell 917-856-4493 <> Fax 212-493-5957 > Internal: Leonard Santalucia/New York/IBM > email: LSantalu@us.ibm.com > Visit: http://www.ibm.com/linux and http://www.ibm.com/servers/eserver > __________________ Redhat-install-list mailing list Redhat-install-list@redhat.com https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-install-list ------- End of forwarded message ------- On 23 May 01, at 8:34, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > Did someone say they knew IBM was going to open an S/390 to the > public? It's on the front page of slashdot this morning, but I don't know > if it's old news or not. There are a few caveats. But I know there's a > few people with some interest... From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed May 23 09:11:11 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (ChuckIsOutRule:) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 23 May 2001, Chuck Hanson wrote: > Hi. > I'll be out of the office through June 4th. You know, June 4 is a couple of weeks off. Is it time to unsubscribe Chuck while he's gone? -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From barnabas at knicknack.net Wed May 23 09:13:25 2001 From: barnabas at knicknack.net (Eric Stanley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] UPS suggestions In-Reply-To: ; from linabery@mm.com on Wed, May 23, 2001 at 08:27:34AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010523091325.B17361@knicknack.net> We've got a big APC (http://www.apcc.com) UPS, the Symmetra model, here at work and have had no trouble with the hardware. It's been somewhat of a challenge to get the software working and their proprietary cabling is a pain to figure out. If you're only running Linux boxes on it, you might have better luck with the apcupsd software than you would with the stuff supplied by APC. HTH, Eric On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 08:27:34AM -0500, Steven M Linabery wrote: > Hi, > > I've finally convinced my part-time employer to get a block of static IPs > and a dedicated Internet connection. > > Now that I have some mission-critical linux boxes online, I want to make > sure they (and especially the gateway to the subnet of [insert your > favorite derogatory name for Windows] boxes) don't get hosed if some > cleaning person decides to vacuum the server room and needs an outlet (ok, > the server room is locked, so that wouldn't happen). > > So. I searched the tclug mailing lists but got no hits on "ups". Does > anyone want to recommend hardware? > > I will have 4-5 boxes (and one monitor) when all is said and done. > > Thanks, > Steve Linabery > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From esper at sherohman.org Wed May 23 09:19:01 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (ChuckIsOutRule:) In-Reply-To: ; from mend0070@tc.umn.edu on Wed, May 23, 2001 at 09:11:11AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010523091901.A3664@sherohman.org> On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 09:11:11AM -0500, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On Wed, 23 May 2001, Chuck Hanson wrote: > > > Hi. > > I'll be out of the office through June 4th. > > You know, June 4 is a couple of weeks off. Is it time to unsubscribe > Chuck while he's gone? Mailman supports a nomail option. We just need a list admin to go into the Membership Management page and click the appropriate checkbox... -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.1: GCS d? s+: a- C++ UL++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w---$ O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv b+ DI++++ D G e* h+ r y+ From nolanjm at juno.com Wed May 23 09:45:15 2001 From: nolanjm at juno.com (Jerry M Nolan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] BeOS Message-ID: <20010523.094517.-83497.0.nolanjm@juno.com> Is anyone supporting BeOS these days? ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From jethro at freakzilla.com Wed May 23 10:03:33 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] BeOS In-Reply-To: <20010523.094517.-83497.0.nolanjm@juno.com> Message-ID: Hi, On Wed, 23 May 2001, Jerry M Nolan wrote: > Is anyone supporting BeOS these days? If they are, tell them to make drivers for my video card. Oh and networking would be nice so I could like, download updates. -Yaron -- From ben at nerp.net Wed May 23 10:04:16 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] UPS suggestions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Depending on how the power is in your area, I wouldn't get anything less than an APC SmartUPS 2200, or 3000. if you figure 300w powersupplies per machine.. 1500w, and 200w for the monitor.. that's almost 80% capacity on the 2200.. you want to keep no more than 50% capacity on a UPS (surge usage of boxes on startup) http://www.apcc.com personaly, for anything over a few small boxes.. I like to use a true online UPS, like a liebert. UPS Station GXT. 3000va model would work perfect. http://www.liebert.com read up on the liebert site.. they have something in their docs that talk about the different modes a UPS can do.. power switching (APC BackUPS) (crap) line interactive (APC SmartUPS) (ok for small stuff) online (APC Symmetra, Liebert) (good stuff) Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Wed, 23 May 2001, Steven M Linabery wrote: > Hi, > > I've finally convinced my part-time employer to get a block of static IPs > and a dedicated Internet connection. > > Now that I have some mission-critical linux boxes online, I want to make > sure they (and especially the gateway to the subnet of [insert your > favorite derogatory name for Windows] boxes) don't get hosed if some > cleaning person decides to vacuum the server room and needs an outlet (ok, > the server room is locked, so that wouldn't happen). > > So. I searched the tclug mailing lists but got no hits on "ups". Does > anyone want to recommend hardware? > > I will have 4-5 boxes (and one monitor) when all is said and done. > > Thanks, > Steve Linabery > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOwvRcstpDhsSpvgtAQG9DAQAuyCPTnhgUag4n1ap3D6uAwelOv2gX4t3 3TcZelXuGMXgA/jbOp8LoRCoXD6ytZyD6wgkN1zx5z9uyaAXW8rW7O7kdNBnnoCN Ru+DSM9kYNWEnrcB+RRw11v+WJT5y9OJ9dIbLKnl+f083cAYHbNTfoPNwPhXEGfg k63SAj/Wwic= =g/sm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed May 23 10:38:47 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] setuid (RAM meter) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > Anyone got a better suggestion than "just run it as root?" (Maybe > that's not a bad idea anyway.) in general, I don't like daemons running as root. Now granted, your driver is not nearly as complex as sendmail but depending on how it polls CPU/mem usage it may be possible to throw some funky code into a certain register and the driver interprets that as a command and bingo, any user on the system has a neat way of getting root to run scripts. Ok, it's a REALLY long shot. I don't see how your driver could possibly act that way, but it's something to consider when running a daemon. I like the idea of setting up a user (like meter-daemon or something), give it appropriate permissions to /dev/ttyS0, and run the daemon setuid to meter-daemon. -Brian From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed May 23 11:00:46 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] well NOW I done it... Message-ID: I wanted to put a linux ISO up on one of my servers so I can download the ISO. Then I wanted to grab the files off the disc if I ever needed an RPM or two, so I did a 'mount redhat.iso ./ -o loop'. Little did I realize that this would make the ISO disappear. The files are all there, I can browse through the files on the ISO but the file itself is nowhere to be found. How do I unmount the ISO so I can move the mount point? I try a umount redhat.iso, of course that doesn't work because the ISO is non-existant on the filesystem. Is there any way to do this? -Brian From florin at iucha.net Wed May 23 11:10:16 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] well NOW I done it... In-Reply-To: ; from lxy@cloudnet.com on Wed, May 23, 2001 at 11:00:46AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010523111016.A2562@beaver.iucha.org> On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 11:00:46AM -0500, Brian wrote: > I wanted to put a linux ISO up on one of my servers so I can download the > ISO. Then I wanted to grab the files off the disc if I ever needed an RPM > or two, so I did a 'mount redhat.iso ./ -o loop'. Little did I realize > that this would make the ISO disappear. The files are all there, I can > browse through the files on the ISO but the file itself is nowhere to be > found. How do I unmount the ISO so I can move the mount point? I try a > umount redhat.iso, of course that doesn't work because the ISO is > non-existant on the filesystem. Is there any way to do this? Unmount by mountpoint. cd .. umount florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From austad at marketwatch.com Wed May 23 11:10:53 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] well NOW I done it... Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807DF@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> This is one of those rare instances where I would suggest trying a reboot. :) > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian [mailto:lxy@cloudnet.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 11:01 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] well NOW I done it... > > > I wanted to put a linux ISO up on one of my servers so I can > download the > ISO. Then I wanted to grab the files off the disc if I ever > needed an RPM > or two, so I did a 'mount redhat.iso ./ -o loop'. Little did > I realize > that this would make the ISO disappear. The files are all > there, I can > browse through the files on the ISO but the file itself is > nowhere to be > found. How do I unmount the ISO so I can move the mount > point? I try a > umount redhat.iso, of course that doesn't work because the ISO is > non-existant on the filesystem. Is there any way to do this? > > -Brian > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From austad at marketwatch.com Wed May 23 11:14:50 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Game order status? Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807E0@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> My friend tells me that you don't have to order a bunch of games to get the $10 price, you can now order individual games like that. He claims he did it. But I'm too lazy to check loki's site right now, so if you're curious, you'll have to check for yourself. :) > -----Original Message----- > From: andy@theasis.com [mailto:andy@theasis.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 1:56 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Game order status? > > > > * andy@theasis.com [010517 17:17]: > > > > > > > Speaking of Tribes 2, has anything happened with the > Loki games order? > > > No, because I've been travelling or otherwise swamped, > and therefore never > > > got back to the Loki salesperson-contact with further > questions on what to > > > do. > > > > Status? > > I've sent a query about some details to Kayt Sorhaindo, the > sales contact > at Loki. I still have not heard back from her. > > Andy > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From pc451 at yahoo.com Wed May 23 11:18:47 2001 From: pc451 at yahoo.com (Peter Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Heresy...and I don't mean the game... Message-ID: <20010523161847.12963.qmail@web11108.mail.yahoo.com> So...I'm making a linux box that will replace the two old laptops my wife and I are using. Only problem is that my wife has a couple of 'doze programs that she likes. I am a little reluctant, but I figure that since rebooting is such a pain, eventually she'll just come to love Linux and forget all about Windows. Ween her away nice and slowly. However...(please don't smite me!) I don't have a copy of Windows. I don't want to go to the store and shell out $90 for a copy that will only be used .01% of the time. So, does anyone have a copy that they would be willing to sell for a low, low price? Win9x, if possible, no ME/NT/2000. Someone out there must have a Win95 disk that they don't use. And yes, I've thought about WINE. I don't think it will be a solution for the programs we have for at least another year or so. :Peter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed May 23 11:18:50 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] well NOW I done it... In-Reply-To: <20010523111016.A2562@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 May 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > Unmount by mountpoint. > > cd .. > umount yes, but since the ISO is nowhere to be found, I can't just umount redhat.iso, I need to point umount to the actual file, which can't be found. I was going to try Jay's suggestion (the logical one) but I wanted to see if there was a more creative way of doing this one. -Brian From administrator at ltiflex.com Wed May 23 11:23:41 2001 From: administrator at ltiflex.com (Andy Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] well NOW I done it... References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807DF@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <3B0BE40D.FDAB41F1@ltiflex.com> Whoops, RTFM... Attach file to loop device: losetup /dev/loopX file mount loop device: mount /dev/loopX /mountpoint unmount loop device: umount /mountpoint detach file from loop device: losetup -d /dev/loopX -- Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH) 763-428-9119 (EX) 132 21801 Industrial Blvd | (FX) 763-428-9126 Rogers, MN 55374 | (PCS) 612-306-6055 From andy at theasis.com Wed May 23 06:24:40 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Game order status? In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807E0@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: > My friend tells me that you don't have to order a bunch of games to get the > $10 price, you can now order individual games like that. He claims he did > it. Uhh... *what* $10 price ? The program we're trying to take advantage of is for 1/2 off of all loki titles for "qualified" LUGs, and the only announcement we've seen explicitly states that you need to order at least 10 copies of *each* title. Several of us had no luck in finding any information at all about this on the lokigames site. > But I'm too lazy to check loki's site right now, so if you're curious, > you'll have to check for yourself. :) whatever. Andy From fertch at mninter.net Wed May 23 11:03:34 2001 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] UPS suggestions References: Message-ID: <200105231626.LAA26873@gateway1.lawson.com> None other than APC. Steven M Linabery wrote: > > Hi, > > I've finally convinced my part-time employer to get a block of static IPs > and a dedicated Internet connection. > > Now that I have some mission-critical linux boxes online, I want to make > sure they (and especially the gateway to the subnet of [insert your > favorite derogatory name for Windows] boxes) don't get hosed if some > cleaning person decides to vacuum the server room and needs an outlet (ok, > the server room is locked, so that wouldn't happen). > > So. I searched the tclug mailing lists but got no hits on "ups". Does > anyone want to recommend hardware? > > I will have 4-5 boxes (and one monitor) when all is said and done. > > Thanks, > Steve Linabery > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jesse_erdmann at securecomputing.com Wed May 23 11:34:00 2001 From: jesse_erdmann at securecomputing.com (Jesse Erdmann) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] well NOW I done it... References: Message-ID: <3B0BE678.61535410@securecomputing.com> I'm confused... when you do mount /dev/cdrom /mnt/cdrom you umount /mnt/cdrom. I'm guessing you did something like mount redhat.iso myISOLocation, why can't you just use umount myISOLocation as suggested? Brian wrote: > > On Wed, 23 May 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > > > Unmount by mountpoint. > > > > cd .. > > umount > > yes, but since the ISO is nowhere to be found, I can't just umount > redhat.iso, I need to point umount to the actual file, which can't be > found. > > I was going to try Jay's suggestion (the logical one) but I wanted to see > if there was a more creative way of doing this one. > > -Brian > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jesse Erdmann Engineer Secure Computing Corp. From drew at usfamily.net Wed May 23 05:43:34 2001 From: drew at usfamily.net (Andrew Nemchenko) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] BeOS References: Message-ID: <3B0B9456.FE39378@usfamily.net> Really? I use it quite a bit at work, well just for fun. My video card and network card got autodetected instantly and work great. Yaron wrote: > Hi, > > On Wed, 23 May 2001, Jerry M Nolan wrote: > > > Is anyone supporting BeOS these days? > > If they are, tell them to make drivers for my video card. Oh and > networking would be nice so I could like, download updates. > > -Yaron > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: drew.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 265 bytes Desc: Card for Andrew Nemchenko Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010523/5c74186c/drew.vcf From florin at iucha.net Wed May 23 11:39:52 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] well NOW I done it... In-Reply-To: ; from lxy@cloudnet.com on Wed, May 23, 2001 at 11:18:50AM -0500 References: <20010523111016.A2562@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20010523113952.A460@beaver.iucha.org> On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 11:18:50AM -0500, Brian wrote: > On Wed, 23 May 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > > > Unmount by mountpoint. > > > > cd .. > > umount > > yes, but since the ISO is nowhere to be found, I can't just umount > redhat.iso, I need to point umount to the actual file, which can't be > found. "redhat.iso" is not a mount point. What is the directory you mounted redhat.iso on? Use _THAT_ as an argument to umount. > I was going to try Jay's suggestion (the logical one) but I wanted to see > if there was a more creative way of doing this one. It's not the logical one. It's the Windows one: "If it doesn't work, reset." florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Wed May 23 11:40:01 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] well NOW I done it... Message-ID: Brian, What you did when you: $ mount redhat.iso ./ -o loop was mount the loopback accessing the redhat.iso file on the _current_ directory, thus hiding _everything_ in the current directory, including the redhat.iso file. Don't do that. :-) Make a directory and mount the file via loopback on that. $ mkdir rhcd $ mount redhat.iso ./rhcd -o loop What florin said was to hand "umount" that directory mount name as an argument (not the redhat.iso file name, which is hidden), and that might make things right again. $ cd /directory/of/mounted/loopback/iso/.. $ umount /directory/of/mounted/loopback/iso/ If it does not, then rebooting is probably the least problematic way of accomplishing that task. Good luck to you, Troy >>> lxy@cloudnet.com 05/23/01 11:18AM >>> On Wed, 23 May 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > Unmount by mountpoint. > > cd .. > umount yes, but since the ISO is nowhere to be found, I can't just umount redhat.iso, I need to point umount to the actual file, which can't be found. I was going to try Jay's suggestion (the logical one) but I wanted to see if there was a more creative way of doing this one. -Brian _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jethro at freakzilla.com Wed May 23 11:51:47 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] BeOS In-Reply-To: <3B0B9456.FE39378@usfamily.net> Message-ID: Hi, On Wed, 23 May 2001, Andrew Nemchenko wrote: > Really? I use it quite a bit at work, well just for fun. My video card > and network card got autodetected instantly and work great. Well, it DID detect and setup my network card initially. Then it stopped working and I can't get it back. It's stuck at 640x480 with 60Hz and a GLARING bright background which gives me a HUGE headache after 5 minutes, so I can't really mess around with trying to fix it. I have a GeForce2 but the NVidia drivers don't seem to do much for it. -Yaron -- From florin at iucha.net Wed May 23 11:55:33 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Heresy...and I don't mean the game... In-Reply-To: <20010523161847.12963.qmail@web11108.mail.yahoo.com>; from pc451@yahoo.com on Wed, May 23, 2001 at 09:18:47AM -0700 References: <20010523161847.12963.qmail@web11108.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010523115532.B460@beaver.iucha.org> On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 09:18:47AM -0700, Peter Clark wrote: > So...I'm making a linux box that will replace the two old laptops my > wife and I are using. Only problem is that my wife has a couple of > 'doze programs that she likes. I am a little reluctant, but I figure > that since rebooting is such a pain, eventually she'll just come to > love Linux and forget all about Windows. Ween her away nice and slowly. > However...(please don't smite me!) I don't have a copy of Windows. I > don't want to go to the store and shell out $90 for a copy that will > only be used .01% of the time. So, does anyone have a copy that they > would be willing to sell for a low, low price? Win9x, if possible, no > ME/NT/2000. Someone out there must have a Win95 disk that they don't > use. > And yes, I've thought about WINE. I don't think it will be a > solution for the programs we have for at least another year or so. It might be against the license agreement the original purchaser has. If it's an OEM version it sure is. florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From jhawley at bgea.org Wed May 23 12:54:19 2001 From: jhawley at bgea.org (John Hawley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mgetty & "init chat time out" Message-ID: <3B0BF94B.43064AE7@bgea.org> Anyone else have problems getting mgetty to work with an internal USR 56K PCI (non-win) modem (on ttyS2)? The mgetty / AUTOppp dial-in services I've been playing with works fine on an external modem on ttyS1. Minicom connects to ttyS2 fine (when not locked by mgetty) and I'm seeing the verbose result codes. I can intercept an incoming call by doing an ATA so I believe I believe the hardware is set up right. The mgetty.ttyS2 log shows loops containing this: 05/23 11:26:04 yS2 send: \dATQ0V1H0[0d] 05/23 11:26:04 yS2 waiting for ``OK'' 05/23 11:26:04 yS2 got: ATQ0V1H0[0d] 05/23 11:26:04 yS2 CND: ATQ0V1H0 05/23 11:26:24 yS2 timeout in chat script, waiting for `OK' 05/23 11:26:24 yS2 init chat timed out, trying force-init-chat 05/23 11:26:24 yS2 send: \d[10][03]\d\d\d+++\d\d\d[0d]\dATQ0V1H0[0d] 05/23 11:26:28 yS2 waiting for ``OK'' 05/23 11:26:28 yS2 got: [10][03]+++[0d] 05/23 11:26:28 yS2 CND: __+++ATQ0V1H0[0d] 05/23 11:26:28 yS2 CND: ATQ0V1H0 ... and I do see [RING]'s coming in when I put through a test call. Any clues? -John Oh, this is on a Debian Woody with kernel 2.4.2 and mgetty1.1.26-Apr16 compiled from source. From ben at nerp.net Wed May 23 12:16:05 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] well NOW I done it... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- listen to the zibby, he knows all. Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Wed, 23 May 2001, Brian wrote: > On Wed, 23 May 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > > > Unmount by mountpoint. > > > > cd .. > > umount > > yes, but since the ISO is nowhere to be found, I can't just umount > redhat.iso, I need to point umount to the actual file, which can't be > found. > > I was going to try Jay's suggestion (the logical one) but I wanted to see > if there was a more creative way of doing this one. > > -Brian > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOwvwV8tpDhsSpvgtAQHbvAP+MN4gvWtd1gWrokr3YZCnKRb8xjpeCRsX 7l3Gb+qmHPTe95OXYn4bo101odZAQf0cxZ/wBkjrGJheKZLKSOuEo1b+/PCz0wU8 gv/qycEAztC1QOTMvC45/79BROE1cDMeg6g9cofIS1nLroNbS0n/2rsxjZHOqa50 xWSuK9ae/hg= =h88y -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From esper at sherohman.org Wed May 23 12:24:08 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Current software RAID information Message-ID: <20010523122408.D3664@sherohman.org> The Software-RAID HOWTO at linuxdoc.org is dated Jan 19, 2000. Is there a more recent version available anywhere? If not, how does the current 2.4 implementation of RAID-1 compare to its RAID-0 on performance? Based on the year-old information in the HOWTO, I expect it to be worse, but by how much? -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.1: GCS d? s+: a- C++ UL++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w---$ O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv b+ DI++++ D G e* h+ r y+ From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Wed May 23 12:38:39 2001 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] rsh changed? Red Hat 7.1 Message-ID: <15115.62879.541047.704381@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> I use rsh in conjunction with CVS on my linux box to access a repository kept on a Solaris system. Or at least I *used to*. I've just upgraded to RedHat 7.1 and now rsh to those hosts doesn't work any longer. I just get errors like the following: prompt> rsh -d uptime poll: protocol failure in circuit setup No matter what command I do, I get this error. Mystifyingly enough, at the same time, rlogin works just fine. The only thing I can think of is that RedHat 7.1 comes with a new version of rsh that is more fussy about some protocol than our Solaris systems are. I am still able to use CVS w/ rsh from Windows 2K (for shame!), so the problem seems to be Linux. Any of you had experiences like this? [I also find that smbfs works less well than it did on the 2.2.21 kernel I had built before the install....] R From simeonuj at eetc.com Wed May 23 12:50:58 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] well NOW I done it... References: Message-ID: <3B0BF866.4A48CDEB@eetc.com> Troy Johnson wrote: > Brian, > > What you did when you: > > $ mount redhat.iso ./ -o loop > > was mount the loopback accessing the redhat.iso file on the _current_ directory, thus hiding _everything_ in the current directory, including the redhat.iso file. Don't do that. :-) Make a directory and mount the file via loopback on that. That actually sounds like it could be a good thing in certain situations. :-) > $ mkdir rhcd > $ mount redhat.iso ./rhcd -o loop > > What florin said was to hand "umount" that directory mount name as an argument (not the redhat.iso file name, which is hidden), and that might make things right again. > > $ cd /directory/of/mounted/loopback/iso/.. > $ umount /directory/of/mounted/loopback/iso/ > > If it does not, then rebooting is probably the least problematic way of accomplishing that task. > Actually I thought you couldn't unmount a directory your using. If you change to that directory you are using it. It never works this way for me. If it works than I am doing something wrong. Otherwise just change to a different directory and umount it as stated above. Sometimes it's just faster to reboot though. You could have fixed it several times over by now. But then again you might have made the same mistake and that is really a waiste of time. :-) > > Unmount by mountpoint. > > > > cd .. > > umount > > yes, but since the ISO is nowhere to be found, I can't just umount > redhat.iso, I need to point umount to the actual file, which can't be > found. Even if the file was found it still wouldn't unmount it. It's a file not a filesystem or mount point. You don't umount /dev/cdrom. You umount /mnt/cdrom instead. > > I was going to try Jay's suggestion (the logical one) but I wanted to see > if there was a more creative way of doing this one. Maybe easier but what happens when you run into this problem again? HTH, sim From simeonuj at eetc.com Wed May 23 12:55:27 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Heresy...and I don't mean the game... References: <20010523161847.12963.qmail@web11108.mail.yahoo.com> <20010523115532.B460@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <3B0BF973.B414284C@eetc.com> Florin Iucha wrote: > On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 09:18:47AM -0700, Peter Clark wrote: > > So...I'm making a linux box that will replace the two old laptops my > > wife and I are using. Only problem is that my wife has a couple of > > 'doze programs that she likes. I am a little reluctant, but I figure > > that since rebooting is such a pain, eventually she'll just come to > > love Linux and forget all about Windows. Ween her away nice and slowly. > > However...(please don't smite me!) I don't have a copy of Windows. I > > don't want to go to the store and shell out $90 for a copy that will > > only be used .01% of the time. So, does anyone have a copy that they > > would be willing to sell for a low, low price? Win9x, if possible, no > > ME/NT/2000. Someone out there must have a Win95 disk that they don't > > use. > > And yes, I've thought about WINE. I don't think it will be a > > solution for the programs we have for at least another year or so. > > It might be against the license agreement the original purchaser has. > If it's an OEM version it sure is. Unless sold with hardware. Any old crappy HD or some nasty MB ( 286/386 or so ) you have lying around will do. They don't have to work either. We sold a coppy on ebay with an old 80 Apple HD that had locked up. If legality is really a problem this will cover your hinderparts. :-) sim From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed May 23 12:56:07 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] well NOW I done it... [Fixed] In-Reply-To: <20010523111016.A2562@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 May 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > Unmount by mountpoint. > > cd .. > umount > My apologies to florin, I misread your message. That worked, so thanks a lot! I owe you a beer at our next meeting :-) -Brian From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Wed May 23 13:20:00 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] well NOW I done it... Message-ID: >>> simeonuj@eetc.com 05/23/01 12:50PM >>> >That actually sounds like it could be a good thing in certain situations. :-) Yes indeed! >> $ cd /directory/of/mounted/loopback/iso/.. >> $ umount /directory/of/mounted/loopback/iso/ >Actually I thought you couldn't unmount a directory your using. If you change to that >directory you are using it. It never works this way for me. >If it works than I am doing something wrong. Otherwise just change to a different directory >and umount it as stated above. This command: $ cd /directory/of/mounted/loopback/iso/.. changes to the directory right above the mount point (the '..' at the end). And no, you shouldn't try to umount a file system you are using (as your current directory). It might leave you in a place that is undefined and *pop* you would be gone. ;-) Troy From florin at iucha.net Wed May 23 13:41:47 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] well NOW I done it... [Fixed] In-Reply-To: ; from lxy@cloudnet.com on Wed, May 23, 2001 at 12:56:07PM -0500 References: <20010523111016.A2562@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20010523134147.C460@beaver.iucha.org> On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 12:56:07PM -0500, Brian wrote: > On Wed, 23 May 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > > > Unmount by mountpoint. > > > > cd .. > > umount > > > > My apologies to florin, I misread your message. That worked, so thanks a > lot! You're mostly welcome! Remember the thread about that bleeding-edge-bare-metal-recovery from last month? Whatever happens don't panic and don't reboot :) florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From florin at iucha.net Wed May 23 13:52:47 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mgetty & "init chat time out" In-Reply-To: <3B0BF94B.43064AE7@bgea.org>; from jhawley@bgea.org on Wed, May 23, 2001 at 12:54:19PM -0500 References: <3B0BF94B.43064AE7@bgea.org> Message-ID: <20010523135247.D460@beaver.iucha.org> On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 12:54:19PM -0500, John Hawley wrote: > Anyone else have problems getting mgetty to work with an internal USR > 56K PCI (non-win) modem (on ttyS2)? The mgetty / AUTOppp dial-in > services I've been playing with works fine on an external modem on > ttyS1. > > Minicom connects to ttyS2 fine (when not locked by mgetty) and I'm > seeing the verbose result codes. I can intercept an incoming call by > doing an ATA so I believe I believe the hardware is set up right. > > The mgetty.ttyS2 log shows loops containing this: > > 05/23 11:26:04 yS2 send: \dATQ0V1H0[0d] > 05/23 11:26:04 yS2 waiting for ``OK'' > 05/23 11:26:04 yS2 got: ATQ0V1H0[0d] this tells me two things: 1. You have echo on. I guess you don't need that. 2. Maybe the timeout is too short. You can play with modem's registers And the third thing: when I was in Phoenix,AZ (serviced by [US|Q]West as well) it happened at times for the dialtone to come after 3-5 seconds after I opened the line : it happened both in modem and the phone. Some "," in the dialout string helped. "," is "wait two seconds". Weird enough the PPP dialer on FreeBSD didn't choke as the one from Linux. > 05/23 11:26:04 yS2 CND: ATQ0V1H0 > 05/23 11:26:24 yS2 timeout in chat script, waiting for `OK' > 05/23 11:26:24 yS2 init chat timed out, trying force-init-chat > 05/23 11:26:24 yS2 send: \d[10][03]\d\d\d+++\d\d\d[0d]\dATQ0V1H0[0d] > 05/23 11:26:28 yS2 waiting for ``OK'' > 05/23 11:26:28 yS2 got: [10][03]+++[0d] > 05/23 11:26:28 yS2 CND: __+++ATQ0V1H0[0d] > 05/23 11:26:28 yS2 CND: ATQ0V1H0 > ... and I do see [RING]'s coming in when I put through a test call. > > Any clues? > -John > > Oh, this is on a Debian Woody with kernel 2.4.2 and mgetty1.1.26-Apr16 > compiled from source. Used to be 2.2.xx back then, but I don't think it matters much. florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From zibby at ringworld.org Wed May 23 13:59:54 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] well NOW I done it... [Fixed] In-Reply-To: <20010523134147.C460@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 May 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > Whatever happens don't panic and don't reboot :) Make that DON'T PANIC Yeah I know, not HTML4, but it'll do. :) Last time I tried directly mounting an iso it didn't work. After consulting the documentation, I found what was the correct proccess. This was some time ago, but the kernel documentation still says you need to follow this procedure. So, my question is is the kernel documentation (2.4.4) out of date or has mount been updated to handle the losetup step for you? I imagine issuing mount while the image was mounted using Brian's method would reveal the answer. ;) | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed May 23 14:00:27 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] hardware recommendation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 22 May 2001, Jon Schewe wrote: > What do you all think of using tape vs hard drives for backup? You mentioned that your home network is a non-production network totalling to about 20GB, I'd use a hard drive simply because a 40 GB IDE drive is cheaper than even a crappy 20GB tape drive. I guess the main question is what are you backing up? What would your response be if your hard drive crashed right now? Would it be a tradgedy or a minor inconvenience? On my hard drive at home, I only have a few hundred MB of stuff I absolutely CANNOT lose. The rest (about 8 GB) would tick me of if I lost it but I'd get over it. A couple nights of rebuilding the OS and the incident is forgotten. So, I back up that few hundred MB daily into a tar file, it FTPs over to another computer for safety, and then when I feel like it I zap that to tape on my 4mm DAT drive. Every couple months I back up the other 8 GB into a massive tar file on another hard drive, just to cut my restore time into an evening rather than a couple all night sessions. The only real reason for my tape drive is because it was given to me, it works, so I might as well use it. I feel slightly better knowing a copy of my important data is sitting in a basement on the other side of town just in case my apartment bursts into flames. Aside from natural disasters, an on site hard drive solution works well. In my experience, I've only used a backup ONCE because of a hardware failure. In the other 1,000 times it was to restore accidentily deleted files, corrupted files, etc and an on site hard drive solution would have worked better because of its speed. Each has its pluses, weigh your solution accordingly. -Brian From zibby at ringworld.org Wed May 23 14:04:53 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] well NOW I done it... [Fixed] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK, had a floppy image laying around and answered my own question: /home/zibby/floppies/Windows98Boot.img on /mnt/floppy type vfat (rw,loop=/dev/loop0) mount knows how to handle it now. | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From blutgens at sistina.com Wed May 23 14:12:13 2001 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] BeOS In-Reply-To: ; from jethro@freakzilla.com on Wed, May 23, 2001 at 11:51:47AM -0500 References: <3B0B9456.FE39378@usfamily.net> Message-ID: <20010523141213.E3561@minime.sistina.com> On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 11:51:47AM -0500, Yaron wrote: > Hi, > >On Wed, 23 May 2001, Andrew Nemchenko wrote: > >> Really? I use it quite a bit at work, well just for fun. My video card >> and network card got autodetected instantly and work great. > >Well, it DID detect and setup my network card initially. Then it stopped >working and I can't get it back. > >It's stuck at 640x480 with 60Hz and a GLARING bright background which >gives me a HUGE headache after 5 minutes, so I can't really mess around >with trying to fix it. I have a GeForce2 but the NVidia drivers don't seem >to do much for it. The stock NVidia drivers that come with BeOS wouldn't work with my GF2 MX, but I downloaded some third-party ones that work great. -- Ben Lutgens Sistina Software Inc. MIS Geek http://www.sistina.com/ <--- great software http://www.gentoo.org/ <--- great distro Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream <--- perfect error message -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010523/ce363883/attachment.pgp From zibby at ringworld.org Wed May 23 14:13:38 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] hardware recommendation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > What do you all think of using tape vs hard drives for backup? Tape is best if you need to instantly restore your system from complete and total failure. At home, I just worry about /home and some select files in /etc/. Every now and then I fill a MO disk with my home directory and call it good. Should my Linux system fail, I will redo it with ReiserFS (or maybe XFS, depending on how well XFS tracks kernel development.) and LVM, and look on it as an oppertunity for cruft cleaning. Outside of /home and /etc/ there isn't anything I can't install again. On the other hand, I got tired of reinstalling Windows when it failed. So, I sat myself down one night and reinstalled it, got all the current patches and drivers installed, rebooted to linux, and burned the fresh windows install to a cd-rom. Next time windows crashes I just format the windows drive and cp -R /mnt/cdrom/* /mnt/win and Windows is good to go again. For my home system, that backup system is enough for me. | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed May 23 14:13:57 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] well NOW I done it... [Fixed] In-Reply-To: <20010523134147.C460@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 May 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: First he says: > Whatever happens don't panic and don't reboot :) Then his sig says: "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" Hmm... common thread here? Actually, I'm pretty much against rebooting a linux box, but in some cases it's the easy way out. This was one of those. In the example you mentioned Florin, there was uncertainty as to whether the machine would boot back up, so it would have been a bad move. In my case, I was 100% sure it would have fixed it. OTOH, I have a server with a 50 day uptime that I refuse to reboot regardless of its condition. It's a functioning sendmail/apache box that I consider the most "mission critical" machine I own and I won't reboot it for any reason. I see the reboot issue as a pride thing, and on a brand new non critical box I don't feel pain in shutdown -r now. If it's been up awhile and it's actually doing stuff, I'm more reluctant. -Brian From florin at iucha.net Wed May 23 15:06:21 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] well NOW I done it... [Fixed] In-Reply-To: ; from lxy@cloudnet.com on Wed, May 23, 2001 at 02:13:57PM -0500 References: <20010523134147.C460@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20010523150621.A2839@beaver.iucha.org> On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 02:13:57PM -0500, Brian wrote: > On Wed, 23 May 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > > First he says: > > Whatever happens don't panic and don't reboot :) > Then his sig says: > "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" That's only for Mouse Operated Systems. > Hmm... common thread here? Actually, I'm pretty much against rebooting a > linux box, but in some cases it's the easy way out. This was one of > those. In the example you mentioned Florin, there was uncertainty as to > whether the machine would boot back up, so it would have been a bad > move. In my case, I was 100% sure it would have fixed it. OTOH, I have a > server with a 50 day uptime that I refuse to reboot regardless of its > condition. It's a functioning sendmail/apache box that I consider the > most "mission critical" machine I own and I won't reboot it for any > reason. > > I see the reboot issue as a pride thing, and on a brand new non critical > box I don't feel pain in shutdown -r now. If it's been up awhile and it's > actually doing stuff, I'm more reluctant. I see the reboot issue as a matter of style. It's more elegant... And as a matter of learning. A 3-year-old can reboot a box, no big deal. But "hmmm, what have I done? why? how can I fix it?" Stuff that you apply later in more stringent situations. florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From jhawley at bgea.org Wed May 23 16:15:38 2001 From: jhawley at bgea.org (John Hawley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mgetty & "init chat time out" References: <3B0BF94B.43064AE7@bgea.org> <20010523135247.D460@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <3B0C287A.F4830494@bgea.org> hmm, this is the snip from the mgetty log for the modem that works. 05/23 08:50:13 yS1 send: \dATQ0V1H0[0d] 05/23 08:50:14 yS1 waiting for ``OK'' 05/23 08:50:14 yS1 got: ATQ0V1H0[0d] 05/23 08:50:14 yS1 CND: ATQ0V1H0[0d][0a]OK ** found ** 05/23 08:50:14 yS1 send: ATS0=0Q0&D3&C1[0d] 05/23 08:50:14 yS1 waiting for ``OK'' 05/23 08:50:14 yS1 got: [0d] 05/23 08:50:14 yS1 CND: OK[0a]ATS0=0Q0&D3&C1[0d] 05/23 08:50:14 yS1 CND: ATS0=0Q0&D3&C1[0d][0a]OK ** found ** ... notes below... Florin Iucha wrote: > On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 12:54:19PM -0500, John Hawley wrote: > > Anyone else have problems getting mgetty to work with an internal USR > > 56K PCI (non-win) modem (on ttyS2)? The mgetty / AUTOppp dial-in > > services I've been playing with works fine on an external modem on > > ttyS1. > > > > Minicom connects to ttyS2 fine (when not locked by mgetty) and I'm > > seeing the verbose result codes. I can intercept an incoming call by > > doing an ATA so I believe I believe the hardware is set up right. > > > > The mgetty.ttyS2 log shows loops containing this: > > > > 05/23 11:26:04 yS2 send: \dATQ0V1H0[0d] > > 05/23 11:26:04 yS2 waiting for ``OK'' > > 05/23 11:26:04 yS2 got: ATQ0V1H0[0d] > > this tells me two things: > > 1. You have echo on. I guess you don't need that. its the same init-chat string as on the modem that works (the default). I've tried various combinations for a custom init-chat, turning echo on and off, etc. same results. > > 2. Maybe the timeout is too short. You can play with modem's registers what timeout? This is a dialin test. There is no dial string for the comma. When in minicom I instantly get the 'OK' after an AT command. > > > And the third thing: when I was in Phoenix,AZ (serviced by [US|Q]West as well) > it happened at times for the dialtone to come after 3-5 seconds after I opened > the line : it happened both in modem and the phone. Some "," in the dialout > string helped. "," is "wait two seconds". > > Weird enough the PPP dialer on FreeBSD didn't choke as the one from Linux. > > > 05/23 11:26:04 yS2 CND: ATQ0V1H0 > > 05/23 11:26:24 yS2 timeout in chat script, waiting for `OK' > > 05/23 11:26:24 yS2 init chat timed out, trying force-init-chat > > 05/23 11:26:24 yS2 send: \d[10][03]\d\d\d+++\d\d\d[0d]\dATQ0V1H0[0d] > > 05/23 11:26:28 yS2 waiting for ``OK'' > > 05/23 11:26:28 yS2 got: [10][03]+++[0d] > > 05/23 11:26:28 yS2 CND: __+++ATQ0V1H0[0d] > > 05/23 11:26:28 yS2 CND: ATQ0V1H0 > > ... and I do see [RING]'s coming in when I put through a test call. > > > > Any clues? > > -John > > > > Oh, this is on a Debian Woody with kernel 2.4.2 and mgetty1.1.26-Apr16 > > compiled from source. > > Used to be 2.2.xx back then, but I don't think it matters much. > > florin > -- > > "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- John Hawley BGEA/ITS <=> Network Admin 612.335.1334 jhawley@bgea.org From austad at marketwatch.com Wed May 23 15:16:37 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] well NOW I done it... [Fixed] Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807E5@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Shouldn't the sig read: "Windows has detected that your mouse has moved. Please reboot for the changes to take effect." :) > -----Original Message----- > From: Florin Iucha [mailto:florin@iucha.net] > Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 3:06 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] well NOW I done it... [Fixed] > > > On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 02:13:57PM -0500, Brian wrote: > > On Wed, 23 May 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > > > > First he says: > > > Whatever happens don't panic and don't reboot :) > > Then his sig says: > > "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this > change take effect" > > That's only for Mouse Operated Systems. > > > Hmm... common thread here? Actually, I'm pretty much > against rebooting a > > linux box, but in some cases it's the easy way out. This was one of > > those. In the example you mentioned Florin, there was > uncertainty as to > > whether the machine would boot back up, so it would have been a bad > > move. In my case, I was 100% sure it would have fixed it. > OTOH, I have a > > server with a 50 day uptime that I refuse to reboot > regardless of its > > condition. It's a functioning sendmail/apache box that I > consider the > > most "mission critical" machine I own and I won't reboot it for any > > reason. > > > > I see the reboot issue as a pride thing, and on a brand new > non critical > > box I don't feel pain in shutdown -r now. If it's been up > awhile and it's > > actually doing stuff, I'm more reluctant. > > I see the reboot issue as a matter of style. It's more elegant... > > And as a matter of learning. A 3-year-old can reboot a box, > no big deal. > But "hmmm, what have I done? why? how can I fix it?" > Stuff that you apply later in more stringent situations. > > florin > > -- > > "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change > take effect" > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From florin at iucha.net Wed May 23 15:22:49 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] hardware recommendation In-Reply-To: ; from zibby@ringworld.org on Wed, May 23, 2001 at 02:13:38PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010523152249.B2839@beaver.iucha.org> On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 02:13:38PM -0500, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > > On the other hand, I got tired of reinstalling Windows when it failed. So, > I sat myself down one night and reinstalled it, got all the current > patches and drivers installed, rebooted to linux, and burned the fresh > windows install to a cd-rom. Next time windows crashes I just format the > windows drive and cp -R /mnt/cdrom/* /mnt/win and Windows is good to go > again. Won't work. You have to have at least a couple of files (think of io.sys and msdos.sys) at the beginning of the drive. Use dd to create a bit-idetical copy. My recipe is as follows: - make a 1G partition for windows (C:) - install windows/drivers/utilities/whatever - boot linux - mount the c partition, cd into it - dd if=/dev/zero of=zerofile bs=32M - rm zerofile - [the last two steps filled with zero all unused blocks] - umount the c partition - dd if=/dev/whaterver bs=32M | gzip > win.YYYYMMDD.img.gz - burn it on a cd > For my home system, that backup system is enough for me. yep. with /home and /etc backed up, no problems. florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed May 23 15:24:16 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] well NOW I done it... [Fixed] In-Reply-To: <20010523150621.A2839@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 May 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > I see the reboot issue as a matter of style. It's more elegant... Um, you guys can argue whether 'tis nobler to boot or not to boot for a long time. There are times each makes sense, I'm sure. In my opinion, and in my past "cultural" experiences in computers, there's nothing wrong with rebooting, but it's considered the one option that is *never* "elegant." Rebooting is like killing one of your kids because you hope the next one will turn out better. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From dd-b at dd-b.net Wed May 23 16:05:13 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] normalizing MP3s In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: writes: > > Always glad to see explanations from people who actually understand > > the field they're explaining! > > As long as you don't get spoiled and start expecting that to be the norm! Oh, no, I've been around computers (and their people) far too long to expect anything that ridiculous! -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From florin at iucha.net Wed May 23 16:14:45 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] well NOW I done it... [Fixed] In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807E5@mspexch1.office.mktw.net>; from austad@marketwatch.com on Wed, May 23, 2001 at 03:16:37PM -0500 References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807E5@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20010523161444.C2839@beaver.iucha.org> On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 03:16:37PM -0500, Austad, Jay wrote: > Shouldn't the sig read: > > "Windows has detected that your mouse has moved. Please reboot for the > changes to take effect." The battle (with Windows) scared veterans know that "Please reboot for the changes to take effect" is a Windows world message. How many times you Linux box asked you to reboot? If it feels like rebooting... it can do it without your help 8). I would however change the .sig for the benefit of disambiguating it if I wouldn't hate two line oneliners 8)8)8) florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From jacque at fruitioninc.com Wed May 23 16:29:02 2001 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting Tomorrow! (Thursday the 24th) Message-ID: Ok folks...after that long day at Stricly Business tomorrow (the 24th), stop on by the Town Hall Brewery and compare your swag while you swill! Whew. Anyways the beer meeting is at the Mpls Town Hall Brewery, 6pm - 8pm or so. We'll be in that non-smoking lounge area that we were in last time. Details here: http://www.mn-linux.org/beermeeting/ See you there! ~jacque From pc451 at yahoo.com Wed May 23 16:39:25 2001 From: pc451 at yahoo.com (Peter Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Heresy...and I don't mean the game... In-Reply-To: <20010523115532.B460@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20010523213925.7393.qmail@web11103.mail.yahoo.com> --- Florin Iucha wrote: > It might be against the license agreement the original purchaser has. > If it's an OEM version it sure is. As someone already suggested, they can sell/give it to me with old, crappy hardware. I could always use another door stop. ;> :Peter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From pc451 at yahoo.com Wed May 23 16:48:23 2001 From: pc451 at yahoo.com (Peter Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Creating a Win backup; was: hardware recommendation In-Reply-To: <20010523152249.B2839@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20010523214823.36234.qmail@web11106.mail.yahoo.com> > Won't work. You have to have at least a couple of files (think of > io.sys and > msdos.sys) at the beginning of the drive. > > Use dd to create a bit-idetical copy. > > My recipe is as follows: > - make a 1G partition for windows (C:) > - install windows/drivers/utilities/whatever > - boot linux > - mount the c partition, cd into it > - dd if=/dev/zero of=zerofile bs=32M > - rm zerofile > - [the last two steps filled with zero all unused blocks] > - umount the c partition > - dd if=/dev/whaterver bs=32M | gzip > win.YYYYMMDD.img.gz > - burn it on a cd Question: why fill all unused blocks with zeros? BTW, thanks for the tip; I think I'll use this. :Peter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From florin at iucha.net Wed May 23 17:26:04 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Creating a Win backup; was: hardware recommendation In-Reply-To: <20010523214823.36234.qmail@web11106.mail.yahoo.com>; from pc451@yahoo.com on Wed, May 23, 2001 at 02:48:23PM -0700 References: <20010523152249.B2839@beaver.iucha.org> <20010523214823.36234.qmail@web11106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010523172603.D2839@beaver.iucha.org> On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 02:48:23PM -0700, Peter Clark wrote: > > Won't work. You have to have at least a couple of files (think of > > io.sys and > > msdos.sys) at the beginning of the drive. > > > > Use dd to create a bit-idetical copy. > > > > My recipe is as follows: > > - make a 1G partition for windows (C:) > > - install windows/drivers/utilities/whatever > > - boot linux > > - mount the c partition, cd into it > > - dd if=/dev/zero of=zerofile bs=32M > > - rm zerofile > > - [the last two steps filled with zero all unused blocks] > > - umount the c partition > > - dd if=/dev/whaterver bs=32M | gzip > win.YYYYMMDD.img.gz > > - burn it on a cd > > Question: why fill all unused blocks with zeros? > BTW, thanks for the tip; I think I'll use this. Because 0s [gz]zips best! If you have trash in the unused blocks they will needlessly take space in the .gz ... florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From sgrobe at mn.rr.com Wed May 23 17:52:48 2001 From: sgrobe at mn.rr.com (Steve) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] BeOS References: <3B0B9456.FE39378@usfamily.net> Message-ID: <3B0C3F40.7834DC94@mn.rr.com> I wish Be Inc. was still supporting BeOS, if so I would probably still be using it. My wife still runs it on her machine, there are a couple of games that she just won't live without. She doesn't need to do much, read mail, surf a little, some Excel spreadsheets. If R6 and a real statement of continued support were to come out I would consider loading it up again but I don't think that's gonna happen. Besides I am starting to get the hang of Linux, finally managed to get s10sh running to I can get the pics off of my Canon digital camera. Now all I need is VMware running so I can use Visio. SG, O.S.D. Andrew Nemchenko wrote: > > Really? I use it quite a bit at work, well just for fun. My video card > and network card got autodetected instantly and work great. > > Yaron wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > On Wed, 23 May 2001, Jerry M Nolan wrote: > > > > > Is anyone supporting BeOS these days? > > > > If they are, tell them to make drivers for my video card. Oh and > > networking would be nice so I could like, download updates. > > > > -Yaron -- Yadda, yadda, yadda From jethro at freakzilla.com Wed May 23 17:54:41 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] UPDATE: Game Order Status Message-ID: Hi all, Thanks to a WHOLE lot of effort on Andy's part, we now have a little more info on the game order. It's more than likely that Loki will let us order individual titles of games, even the ones we don't have over 10 of, because we _do_ have over 10 of at least one game (Tribes 2, and both Andy and I have 'volunteered' to buy a copy of SimCity3000 which will put us at 10 for that too). They do want to do this on a per-order basis, so we'll really have to see. However, we need to figure out how to do the payment. If you are interested, please try and stop by the beer meeting tomorrow. I will post a summery later tomorrow night. if you can't make it there, please email me with questions/concerns which I will bring up at the meeting. Hope to see you there, -Yaron -- From spaltzer at yahoo.com Thu May 24 02:08:19 2001 From: spaltzer at yahoo.com (Steve Paltzer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Buying stuff listed at pricewatch.com In-Reply-To: <20010521023328.91700.qmail@web11106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010524070819.32966.qmail@web11504.mail.yahoo.com> I like PriceWatch a lot, but there are a few more place you should check out. like http://shopper.cnet.com/ and http://shopping.yahoo.com/stores/computers/ C|Net is nice because you can get ratings on the stores you buy from. An on-line store that I have had good success from is http://www.mwave.com/ If you do not mind used hardware, you should check out Materials Processing. http://www.MaterialsProcessing.com/sspage.htm They have some really good deals. You can always ask people on this list if they have something to part with, that you would want. Please keep your discussions off the mailing list because most people will not care if Joe Bob is going to sell you his Matrox G450 for $50. Do not forget to check out the Linux Hardware DataDase http://lhd.datapower.com/ and http://www.linux.org/hardware/index.html I am not nocking the local stores, but if you buy name brand products - they will just work, and you will not have to worry about the warranty. You should also speck out a system from Dell, Gateway, or one of the other Big players. Expecially if you plan to dual boot, because you can get some really good software packages from them. IMHO, -Steve --- Peter Clark wrote: > So I'm in the middle of building a brand new box. Being the poor > student that I am, with a wife who is tolerant so long as I don't get > spendy, I'm interested in getting good, high quality, but cheap parts. > Take, for instance, a GeForce2 MX. At Tran, it's $99.99 and at General > Nano, $89.99, last I checked. However, I have found it going for about > $50-$55 (plus $10-$15 s+h) through Pricewatch. That's a savings of > $20-$30 dollars. However, remembering the famous triade (Good, Fast, > Cheap, pick two), I'm wondering if I might be buying a lemon. Some of > them offer one year insurance, which sounds safer, but I would like to > test the collected wisdom of the group for advice. > Thanks! > :Peter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From simeonuj at eetc.com Thu May 24 08:59:13 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] well NOW I done it... References: Message-ID: <3B0D13AA.632B26B9@eetc.com> > This command: > > $ cd /directory/of/mounted/loopback/iso/.. Aaaaah. Sorry, didn't see that. > > > changes to the directory right above the mount point (the '..' at the end). And no, you shouldn't try to umount a file system you are using (as your current directory). It might leave you in a place that is undefined and *pop* you would be gone. ;-) I was kinda tired when I looked at your first post. Sorry. sim From pc451 at yahoo.com Thu May 24 10:27:42 2001 From: pc451 at yahoo.com (Peter Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Creating a Win backup; was: hardware recommendation In-Reply-To: <20010523172603.D2839@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20010524152742.1510.qmail@web11104.mail.yahoo.com> -- Florin Iucha wrote: > > Question: why fill all unused blocks with zeros? > > BTW, thanks for the tip; I think I'll use this. > > Because 0s [gz]zips best! If you have trash in the unused blocks they > will > needlessly take space in the .gz ... Duh... It wasn't until I thought about it that I realized that the _whole_ partition would be compressed into one file. I had just assumed that only the files would be compressed. :Peter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From natecars at real-time.com Thu May 24 10:32:37 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] setuid (RAM meter) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > In writing the RAM meter driver, I can open the serial port and talk to > it. It looks like there's like totally nothing to the driver. The > question I have is that generally users don't have permission to open > /dev/ttyS0, so you either run the program as root (works) or code it to do > a setuid(0). I think that's right, but I've never mucked with the uid > stuff much and never from a programming end. Anyone got a better > suggestion than "just run it as root?" (Maybe that's not a bad idea > anyway.) give the users permission to open /dev/ttyS0? :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Thu May 24 10:49:44 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] well NOW I done it... [Fixed] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mount has been updated to support a 'loop' option so I typically do mount -o loop,ro file dir It's less typing than dealing with losetup Josh ___SIG___ On Wed, 23 May 2001, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > On Wed, 23 May 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > > > Whatever happens don't panic and don't reboot :) > Make that DON'T PANIC > > Yeah I know, not HTML4, but it'll do. :) > > Last time I tried directly mounting an iso it didn't work. After > consulting the documentation, I found what was the correct proccess. This > was some time ago, but the kernel documentation still says you need to > follow this procedure. > > So, my question is is the kernel documentation (2.4.4) out of date or has > mount been updated to handle the losetup step for you? I imagine issuing > mount while the image was mounted using Brian's method would reveal the > answer. ;) > > | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | > | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | > | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | > | His power apparently lies in his ability to | > | choose incompetent enemies. | > | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From pc451 at yahoo.com Thu May 24 11:01:34 2001 From: pc451 at yahoo.com (Peter Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Experiences with AC '97 (on-board audio)? Message-ID: <20010524160134.46207.qmail@web11108.mail.yahoo.com> I am strongly considering buying a Soyo K7VTA Pro mobo: it's cheap, it's good quality, has an ISA slot, and aside from the glitch of having the power cables run a little too close to the processor, everything I want. It also has on-board audio (AC '97). My question is how good (or bad) is the sound quality? Would you recommend buying a seperate sound card? Ok, I admit, this is a very subjective question. I like playing MP3s and audio CDs, but I'm not a audiophile who demands accoustical perfection. BTW, the DukeOfUrl has its tenth Linux buyer's guide out (http://www.thedukeofurl.org/reviews/misc/linuxguide10/). Amazing how fast prices are falling on them there Athlons, isn't it? :) :Peter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From stauffer_james at yahoo.com Thu May 24 11:47:38 2001 From: stauffer_james at yahoo.com (James A. N. Stauffer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual Head Video Message-ID: <20010524164738.66356.qmail@web11506.mail.yahoo.com> What are your recommendations for a dual head video card on NT (Work system so I don't get to choose the OS :-( )? I am currently learning toward the Matrox G450 16MB. ===== = o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ _____=======_||___ o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | | Stauffer_James | .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | | @yahoo.com | >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|________________| _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o¬o¬o o¬o¬o` 'o¬o o¬o` __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From jethro at freakzilla.com Thu May 24 11:51:57 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual Head Video In-Reply-To: <20010524164738.66356.qmail@web11506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi, On Thu, 24 May 2001, James A. N. Stauffer wrote: > What are your recommendations for a dual head video card on NT (Work system > so I don't get to choose the OS :-( )? > I am currently learning toward the Matrox G450 16MB. Matrox rules. -Yaron -- From m_nassar at yahoo.com Thu May 24 12:06:22 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Experiences with AC '97 (on-board audio)? In-Reply-To: <20010524160134.46207.qmail@web11108.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010524170622.85820.qmail@web10105.mail.yahoo.com> i have that soundcard in that mobo... its cheap, and you get what you pay for (for sound quality at least) plus i had some problems getting all the drivers compiled... i am going to buy a Sound Blaster Live once i get paid, i would recomend the same... (oh and DO NOT use an ISA sound card, the lack of IRQs and the slow bus makes it even worse than the AC97) -munir --- Peter Clark wrote: > I am strongly considering buying a Soyo K7VTA Pro > mobo: it's cheap, > it's good quality, has an ISA slot, and aside from > the glitch of having > the power cables run a little too close to the > processor, everything I > want. It also has on-board audio (AC '97). My > question is how good (or > bad) is the sound quality? Would you recommend > buying a seperate sound > card? > Ok, I admit, this is a very subjective question. > I like playing MP3s > and audio CDs, but I'm not a audiophile who demands > accoustical > perfection. > BTW, the DukeOfUrl has its tenth Linux buyer's > guide out > (http://www.thedukeofurl.org/reviews/misc/linuxguide10/). > Amazing how > fast prices are falling on them there Athlons, isn't > it? :) > :Peter > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great > prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From lxy at cloudnet.com Thu May 24 12:07:10 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual Head Video In-Reply-To: <20010524164738.66356.qmail@web11506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 May 2001, James A. N. Stauffer wrote: > I am currently learning toward the Matrox G450 16MB. Sort of off topic here, but how do G450's work under linux these days? I heard some time ago that there were problems with the 450s (400s worked fine) but that was not recent. Ok, back on topic, I haven't heard a single bad thing about the G400, and only that there was a compatibility issue under X with the G450. I'm curious about this because I want dual head capability on my system and I'm planning on a Matrox. -Brian From administrator at ltiflex.com Thu May 24 12:11:04 2001 From: administrator at ltiflex.com (Andy Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual Head Video References: <20010524164738.66356.qmail@web11506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B0D40A8.55EC3A72@ltiflex.com> > What are your recommendations for a dual head video card Nvidia's TwinView cards are really nifty. OpenGL on both heads, under Linux. Yummy. Go with one of these if 3D acceleration is your primiary concern. (the 1.0 drivers are great, but how long do you suppose they spent coding them so they would display a nvidia background instead of the standard black, white, and grey hash? It would be nifty if they could get them to the point where it doesn't show that has at all, it can be hard on the eyes. :) If 3D isn't as big of a consern, Matrox 2D rules, and 3D is ok. I gave up on my G200 some time ago because the OpenGL drivers just weren't ready for primetime, but for non-gaming, it was great. If you're doing alot of desktop publishing, photo editing, etc, go Matrox. -- Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH) 763-428-9119 (EX) 132 21801 Industrial Blvd | (FX) 763-428-9126 Rogers, MN 55374 | (PCS) 612-306-6055 From austad at marketwatch.com Thu May 24 12:25:12 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual Head Video Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807EE@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Tran Micro has a Dual Head 64MB Geforce 2 MX for $149. Has anyone tried it? I was thinking about buying it, but it's some welfare brand I've never heard of. Jay -----Original Message----- From: Andy Zbikowski [mailto:administrator@ltiflex.com] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 12:11 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Dual Head Video > What are your recommendations for a dual head video card Nvidia's TwinView cards are really nifty. OpenGL on both heads, under Linux. Yummy. Go with one of these if 3D acceleration is your primiary concern. (the 1.0 drivers are great, but how long do you suppose they spent coding them so they would display a nvidia background instead of the standard black, white, and grey hash? It would be nifty if they could get them to the point where it doesn't show that has at all, it can be hard on the eyes. :) If 3D isn't as big of a consern, Matrox 2D rules, and 3D is ok. I gave up on my G200 some time ago because the OpenGL drivers just weren't ready for primetime, but for non-gaming, it was great. If you're doing alot of desktop publishing, photo editing, etc, go Matrox. -- Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH) 763-428-9119 (EX) 132 21801 Industrial Blvd | (FX) 763-428-9126 Rogers, MN 55374 | (PCS) 612-306-6055 _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From stauffer_james at yahoo.com Thu May 24 12:33:41 2001 From: stauffer_james at yahoo.com (James A. N. Stauffer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual Head Video In-Reply-To: <3B0D40A8.55EC3A72@ltiflex.com> Message-ID: <20010524173341.89011.qmail@web11501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Andy Zbikowski wrote: > > What are your recommendations for a dual head video card > If 3D isn't as big of a consern, Matrox 2D rules, and 3D is ok. I gave up > on my G200 some time ago because the OpenGL drivers just weren't ready for > primetime, but for non-gaming, it was great. If you're doing alot of > desktop publishing, photo editing, etc, go Matrox. Thanks. I will only be doing 2D (business apps) so it is nice to have my leanings confirmed. ===== = o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ _____=======_||___ o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | | Stauffer_James | .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | | @yahoo.com | >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|________________| _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o¬o¬o o¬o¬o` 'o¬o o¬o` __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From colin at tyr.med.umn.edu Thu May 24 13:13:06 2001 From: colin at tyr.med.umn.edu (Colin Kilbane) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Computers anyone? In-Reply-To: <20010524170622.85820.qmail@web10105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have my old celeron 333a back from my brother, 128megs, 8gigs hd, AGP video with a vodoo2(my pal has another so you can run them in parralel), 3con pci netowork card, soundblaster, CD rom, monitor, full tower case and so on. It should be a nice linux system or duel boot. I would like at least 300 or best offer. ps for a bit more I have scsi, and a magneto optical drive with 7 disks. Colin Kilbane From blayer at qwest.net Thu May 24 13:50:06 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Computers anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <20010524170622.85820.qmail@web10105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010524135006.325a0a16.blayer@qwest.net> On Thu, 24 May 2001 13:13:06 -0500 (CDT) "Colin Kilbane" wrote: > I have my old celeron 333a back from my brother Which reminds me.. I've got about 6 i486 machines of various speeds 66-133Mhz that I would like to sell. Prices start at $50. Some have CD-ROMS, some have PCI bus, almost all have sound cards. The CDs and sound cards all have linux support... I'll install Slackware onto any of them, I think most have Win95 or 3.1 right now. Some NICs also available... -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Thu May 24 14:49:01 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Creating a Win backup; was: hardware recommendation In-Reply-To: <20010524152742.1510.qmail@web11104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Perhaps the old style io.sys located in sector zero of the partition isn't needed anymore. I seem to recall hearing something about that around when win98 came out. That perhaps the boot loader knows enough to find the start of the boot data area, read the root directory and do a far jump over to the binary (as opposed to just loading a bit more and getting the start of io.sys) Josh ___SIG___ On Thu, 24 May 2001, Peter Clark wrote: > -- Florin Iucha wrote: > > > Question: why fill all unused blocks with zeros? > > > BTW, thanks for the tip; I think I'll use this. > > > > Because 0s [gz]zips best! If you have trash in the unused blocks they > > will > > needlessly take space in the .gz ... > Duh... It wasn't until I thought about it that I > realized that the _whole_ partition would be compressed into one file. > I had just assumed that only the files would be compressed. > :Peter > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From administrator at ltiflex.com Thu May 24 15:08:38 2001 From: administrator at ltiflex.com (Andy Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Creating a Win backup; was: hardware recommendation References: Message-ID: <3B0D6A46.2D1B488A@ltiflex.com> format c: /s THEN copy the contents of the CD. Worked fine for me last time I did it. (Was actually doing from hard drive to hard drive.) The only problem that comes to mind is that the Read-Only bit might get set when doing it from CDrom...hmm...I'll restore it into VMware and see what happens. :) -- Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH) 763-428-9119 (EX) 132 21801 Industrial Blvd | (FX) 763-428-9126 Rogers, MN 55374 | (PCS) 612-306-6055 From pc451 at yahoo.com Thu May 24 15:30:30 2001 From: pc451 at yahoo.com (Peter Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Creating a Win backup; was: hardware recommendation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010524203030.19488.qmail@web11102.mail.yahoo.com> --- Joshua Jore wrote: > Perhaps the old style io.sys located in sector zero of the partition > isn't > needed anymore. I seem to recall hearing something about that around > when > win98 came out. That perhaps the boot loader knows enough to find the > start of the boot data area, read the root directory and do a far > jump > over to the binary (as opposed to just loading a bit more and getting > the > start of io.sys) Half-way random question based on that: is the "sector zero" limited only to the _partition_ or to the actual drive? I know you said partition above, but I just had a brain storm (must be the weather). First off, if sector zero refers only to the partition of the hard drive, then that means that theoretically, I can move Windows anywhere I want on the hard drive, so long as I keep everything in order (maybe). The next question, with a dual-boot computer where Linux is used 99.9% of the time, where is the best place to put Windows? At the beginning or end of a hard drive? (As though you were looking at, say, a disk partitioning line graph, with left being the beginning and right the end.) The reasoning I follow is this. If we take the example of a record (as in LP, vinyl), a point in the outside moves faster relative to a point closer to the center. If hard drives were vinyl LPs, I would want to put the most speed-essential records (kernal, libraries, etc.) closer to the outside edge, yes? But do hard drives work this way? Or does the rotation slow as the drive head moves farther from the center? If this hard drive physics is worth exploring, what on a hard drive corresponds to the outer edge of a record? Is it the first couple of sectors (assuming a single-partition drive) or the last? IOW, the left or right side of a partition bar graph? Or is the bar graph a convinient lie? Next, would it be advantagous to move certain files into those sectors, and, if so, which ones? I suppose in these days of super-fast hard drives it really doesn't matter, but I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts. :Peter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From zibby at ringworld.org Thu May 24 15:40:36 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Creating a Win backup; was: hardware recommendation In-Reply-To: <20010524203030.19488.qmail@web11102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Windows will only boot from the first partition on the primiary hard drive. Though with some lilo tricks your can get it to boot off the first partition of any harddrive. | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Thu May 24 15:45:33 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Creating a Win backup; was: hardware recommendation In-Reply-To: <20010524203030.19488.qmail@web11102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: First part: the boot loader in the superblock/MBR examines the partition table, loads the first sector from the bootable partition and transfer control to that. That means you can put your partition at a different location on your new drive. Second part: yes and no. Physically the drive is supposed to be faster closer to the spindle and it would be keen to selectively put stuff there. It's not likely you'll do that in practice since there is no correspondance between (logical/"physical") sector numbers and they're real location on the disk. There is a strict formula to map a logical sector number onto a physical sector number. It's just that the drive presents itself as a certain geometry while keeping it's actual internals hidden from the outside. Consider it a black box. It is possible to determine some of the actual physical geometry through timing measurements but you'll have to be a hard drive wizard to do that. Andre Hedrick and Steve Gibson do that sort of stuff. Since you're not at that level, you won't do that (at least this month; get crackin'!). I just don't think it's a goal that's particularly attainable for most people (even minor wizards). Joshua Jore ___SIG___ On Thu, 24 May 2001, Peter Clark wrote: > --- Joshua Jore wrote: > > Perhaps the old style io.sys located in sector zero of the partition > > isn't > > needed anymore. I seem to recall hearing something about that around > > when > > win98 came out. That perhaps the boot loader knows enough to find the > > start of the boot data area, read the root directory and do a far > > jump > > over to the binary (as opposed to just loading a bit more and getting > > the > > start of io.sys) > Half-way random question based on that: is the "sector zero" limited > only to the _partition_ or to the actual drive? I know you said > partition above, but I just had a brain storm (must be the weather). > First off, if sector zero refers only to the partition of the hard > drive, then that means that theoretically, I can move Windows anywhere > I want on the hard drive, so long as I keep everything in order > (maybe). The next question, with a dual-boot computer where Linux is > used 99.9% of the time, where is the best place to put Windows? At the > beginning or end of a hard drive? (As though you were looking at, say, > a disk partitioning line graph, with left being the beginning and right > the end.) > The reasoning I follow is this. If we take the example of a record > (as in LP, vinyl), a point in the outside moves faster relative to a > point closer to the center. If hard drives were vinyl LPs, I would want > to put the most speed-essential records (kernal, libraries, etc.) > closer to the outside edge, yes? But do hard drives work this way? Or > does the rotation slow as the drive head moves farther from the center? > If this hard drive physics is worth exploring, what on a hard drive > corresponds to the outer edge of a record? Is it the first couple of > sectors (assuming a single-partition drive) or the last? IOW, the left > or right side of a partition bar graph? Or is the bar graph a > convinient lie? Next, would it be advantagous to move certain files > into those sectors, and, if so, which ones? > I suppose in these days of super-fast hard drives it really doesn't > matter, but I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts. > :Peter > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Thu May 24 15:46:25 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual Head Video In-Reply-To: <20010524173341.89011.qmail@web11501.mail.yahoo.com>; from stauffer_james@yahoo.com on Thu, May 24, 2001 at 10:33:41AM -0700 References: <3B0D40A8.55EC3A72@ltiflex.com> <20010524173341.89011.qmail@web11501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010524154624.B4882@ringworld.org> > Thanks. I will only be doing 2D (business apps) so it is nice to have my > leanings confirmed. I use a g200 at work full time these days, drives this monitor *very* well. :) Great for 2d. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010524/40754b18/attachment.pgp From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Thu May 24 15:47:06 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Creating a Win backup; was: hardware recommendation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That's not exactly correct. It will boot only from the first primary partition on the first hard drive. It's not uncommon for me to partition my linux stuff first then put windows on. Unless I'm smoking crack and have forgotton some boot loader lore. Josh ___SIG___ $_='while(read+STDIN,$_,2048){$a=29;$b=73;$c=142;$t=255;@t=map{$_%16or$t^=$c^=( $m=(11,10,116,100,11,122,20,100)[$_/16%8])&110;$t^=(72,@z=(64,72,$a^=12*($_%16 -2?0:$m&17)),$b^=$_%64?12:0,@z)[$_%8]}(16..271);if((@a=unx"C*",$_)[20]&48){$h =5;$_=unxb24,join"",@b=map{xB8,unxb8,chr($_^$a[--$h+84])}@ARGV;s/...$/1$&/;$ d=unxV,xb25,$_;$e=256|(ord$b[4])<<9|ord$b[3];$d=$d>>8^($f=$t&($d>>12^$d>>4^ $d^$d/8))<<17,$e=$e>>8^($t&($g=($q=$e>>14&7^$e)^$q*8^$q<<6))<<9,$_=$t[$_]^ (($h>>=8)+=$f+(~$g&$t))for@a[128..$#a]}print+x"C*",@a}';s/x/pack+/g;eval On Thu, 24 May 2001, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > Windows will only boot from the first partition on the primiary hard > drive. Though with some lilo tricks your can get it to boot off the first > partition of any harddrive. > > | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | > | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | > | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | > | His power apparently lies in his ability to | > | choose incompetent enemies. | > | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From pc451 at yahoo.com Thu May 24 15:49:33 2001 From: pc451 at yahoo.com (Peter Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Creating a Win backup; was: hardware recommendation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010524204933.34913.qmail@web11103.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" wrote: > Windows will only boot from the first partition on the primiary hard > drive. Though with some lilo tricks your can get it to boot off the > first > partition of any harddrive. Is there any reason for that, or is it just MicroShaft trying to remain #1? I admit, I know next to nothing about how Windows boots. I'm not sure I want to know. But are you saying that if I were to copy a Windows image off of a CD onto a partition other than the first, it wouldn't boot, period? Hmm. Not very satisfying. :Peter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From zibby at ringworld.org Thu May 24 15:58:34 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Creating a Win backup; was: hardware recommendation In-Reply-To: <20010524204933.34913.qmail@web11103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: If you had an image on a CD and used dd it would boot. If you just burned the files to CD it would not unless your formated the windows drive (format c: /s) first. | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Thu May 24 16:07:53 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Creating a Win backup; was: hardware recommendation In-Reply-To: <20010524204933.34913.qmail@web11103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It's just showing it's old DOS roots. There's no reason to suspect a conspiracy when you can just point to old legacy support. Josh ___SIG___ On Thu, 24 May 2001, Peter Clark wrote: > --- "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" wrote: > > Windows will only boot from the first partition on the primiary hard > > drive. Though with some lilo tricks your can get it to boot off the > > first > > partition of any harddrive. > Is there any reason for that, or is it just MicroShaft trying to > remain #1? > I admit, I know next to nothing about how Windows boots. I'm not > sure I want to know. But are you saying that if I were to copy a > Windows image off of a CD onto a partition other than the first, it > wouldn't boot, period? > Hmm. Not very satisfying. > :Peter > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From m_nassar at yahoo.com Thu May 24 16:07:21 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Creating a Win backup; was: hardware recommendation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010524210721.59145.qmail@web10107.mail.yahoo.com> not necessarily true, i usually put a /boot ext2 partition at the beginning of the drive (back in the days of the old lilo) and after that i put windows... the only thing it really needs it A) it be a primary partition B) there be no more than 4 primary partitions on the drive (you can have more if they are hidden primaries) -munir --- "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" wrote: > Windows will only boot from the first partition on > the primiary hard > drive. Though with some lilo tricks your can get it > to boot off the first > partition of any harddrive. > > | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | > | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | > | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | > | His power apparently lies in his ability to | > | choose incompetent enemies. | > | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From colin at tyr.med.umn.edu Thu May 24 16:21:17 2001 From: colin at tyr.med.umn.edu (Colin Kilbane) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Computers anyone? In-Reply-To: <20010524135006.325a0a16.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: Ya know what we ought to do? We need to have a page off of the website dedicated to for sale. Like we send an email to compswap@mn-linux.org and it gets posted on the site and then at the end of the day, it gets digested and sent out to the members on the list. I bet most of us have parts or whole machines we would like to swap, sell, and buy. Colin Kilbane From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Thu May 24 16:33:20 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Creating a Win backup; was: hardware recommendation In-Reply-To: <20010524210721.59145.qmail@web10107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Actually, I seem to recall that dos and win9x/me all want exactly one primary partition with everything else in one to four logical partitions in an extended partition. I've never actually had a problem with two or more primary partitions but there is a MS KB article citing possible data loss. I've alwaysb assumed that there is a rarely used part of windows that will do something spectacular if it finds the extra primary partitions. Of course, this only applies to (V)FAT. Primary partitions of other types are invisible as always. Josh ___SIG___ On Thu, 24 May 2001, Munir Nassar wrote: > not necessarily true, i usually put a /boot ext2 > partition at the beginning of the drive (back in the > days of the old lilo) and after that i put windows... > the only thing it really needs it > > A) it be a primary partition > B) there be no more than 4 primary partitions on the > drive (you can have more if they are hidden primaries) > > -munir > --- "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" > wrote: > > Windows will only boot from the first partition on > > the primiary hard > > drive. Though with some lilo tricks your can get it > > to boot off the first > > partition of any harddrive. > > > > | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | > > | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | > > | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | > > | His power apparently lies in his ability to | > > | choose incompetent enemies. | > > | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > ===== > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version: 3.12 > GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu May 24 18:19:08 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual Head Video In-Reply-To: References: <20010524164738.66356.qmail@web11506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010524181908.078dd855.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Brian wrote: > > Ok, back on topic, I haven't heard a single bad thing about the G400, > and only that there was a compatibility issue under X with the G450. > I'm curious about this because I want dual head capability on my system > and I'm planning on a Matrox. Well, the only thing you can really say bad about the G400 is that it isn't the G450. There are some missing features on the G400's second head, such as gamma correction and DPMS (monitor sleep), and it can't power a monitor past 1280x1024. The G400 works with stock XFree86, though you need to get Matrox's driver to run dual-head (it comes with some microcode that gets uploaded to the video card). The G450 needs Matrox's driver no matter what (though it's hard to say if future versions of XFree86 will include support or not). -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Never let school get in / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ the way of your \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) education. [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From cbidler at talkware.net Thu May 24 19:08:49 2001 From: cbidler at talkware.net (Helper Monkey) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual Head Video References: <20010524164738.66356.qmail@web11506.mail.yahoo.com> <20010524181908.078dd855.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3B0DA291.7060403@talkware.net> Mike Hicks wrote: >Brian wrote: > >>Ok, back on topic, I haven't heard a single bad thing about the G400, >>and only that there was a compatibility issue under X with the G450. >>I'm curious about this because I want dual head capability on my system >>and I'm planning on a Matrox. >> > >Well, the only thing you can really say bad about the G400 is that it >isn't the G450. There are some missing features on the G400's second >head, such as gamma correction and DPMS (monitor sleep), and it can't >power a monitor past 1280x1024. > >The G400 works with stock XFree86, though you need to get Matrox's driver >to run dual-head (it comes with some microcode that gets uploaded to the >video card). The G450 needs Matrox's driver no matter what (though it's >hard to say if future versions of XFree86 will include support or not). > Of course, what we *really* need is *triple*-head video; two OpenGL monitors don't help a whit with gaming, when there's that huge blind spot right down the center of the 'screen'! :p From jwanderson at uswest.net Thu May 24 19:24:34 2001 From: jwanderson at uswest.net (Jay W. Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Creating a Win backup; was: hardware recommendation In-Reply-To: <20010524203030.19488.qmail@web11102.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <200105250024.f4P0OZK29529@sprite.real-time.com> Check out the Multi-Disk-HOWTO on our favorite how-to mirror. A section of this document discusses this. Jay On 24 May 01, at 13:30, Peter Clark wrote: > (maybe). The next question, with a dual-boot computer where Linux is > used 99.9% of the time, where is the best place to put Windows? At the > beginning or end of a hard drive? (As though you were looking at, say, > a disk partitioning line graph, with left being the beginning and right > the end.) > The reasoning I follow is this. If we take the example of a record > (as in LP, vinyl), a point in the outside moves faster relative to a > point closer to the center. If hard drives were vinyl LPs, I would want > to put the most speed-essential records (kernal, libraries, etc.) > closer to the outside edge, yes? But do hard drives work this way? Or > does the rotation slow as the drive head moves farther from the center? > If this hard drive physics is worth exploring, what on a hard drive > corresponds to the outer edge of a record? Is it the first couple of > sectors (assuming a single-partition drive) or the last? IOW, the left > or right side of a partition bar graph? Or is the bar graph a > convinient lie? Next, would it be advantagous to move certain files > into those sectors, and, if so, which ones? > I suppose in these days of super-fast hard drives it really doesn't > matter, but I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts. > :Peter > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Thu May 24 19:44:04 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual Head Video In-Reply-To: <3B0DA291.7060403@talkware.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 May 2001, Helper Monkey wrote: > Of course, what we *really* need is *triple*-head video; two OpenGL > monitors don't help a whit with gaming, when there's that huge blind > spot right down the center of the 'screen'! :p Yeah -- two blind spots are better than one! -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From cbidler at talkware.net Thu May 24 20:25:45 2001 From: cbidler at talkware.net (Helper Monkey) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual Head Video References: Message-ID: <3B0DB499.9010607@talkware.net> Phil Mendelsohn wrote: >On Thu, 24 May 2001, Helper Monkey wrote: > >>Of course, what we *really* need is *triple*-head video; two OpenGL >>monitors don't help a whit with gaming, when there's that huge blind >>spot right down the center of the 'screen'! :p >> > >Yeah -- two blind spots are better than one! > If the two blind spots are not oriented where my crosshairs are (in an FPS or flight sim), and the two aren't, I'd agree. :) From cbidler at talkware.net Thu May 24 20:30:14 2001 From: cbidler at talkware.net (Helper Monkey) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual Head Video References: <3B0DB499.9010607@talkware.net> Message-ID: <3B0DB5A6.7050207@talkware.net> Helper Monkey wrote: > Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > >> On Thu, 24 May 2001, Helper Monkey wrote: >> >>> Of course, what we *really* need is *triple*-head video; two OpenGL >>> monitors don't help a whit with gaming, when there's that huge blind >>> spot right down the center of the 'screen'! :p >>> >> >> Yeah -- two blind spots are better than one! >> > If the two blind spots are not oriented where my crosshairs are (in an > FPS or flight sim), and the two aren't, I'd agree. :) /me looks at that statement for a second. Hmm..let's try 'If the two blind spots aren't where my crosshairs are (in an FPS or flight sim), and the ONE IS, I'd agree. :)'. Much better. From clay at fandre.com Thu May 24 20:44:48 2001 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Computers anyone? References: Message-ID: <3B0DB910.FC49E7F@fandre.com> I know, I know. It's on my todo list. Hopefully I will get to it by 2004 or so. Colin Kilbane wrote: > > Ya know what we ought to do? We need to have a page off of the website > dedicated to for sale. Like we send an email to compswap@mn-linux.org and > it gets posted on the site and then at the end of the day, it gets > digested and sent out to the members on the list. I bet most of us have > parts or whole machines we would like to swap, sell, and buy. > > Colin Kilbane > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From m_nassar at yahoo.com Thu May 24 20:50:33 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Computers anyone? In-Reply-To: <3B0DB910.FC49E7F@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20010525015033.73740.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com> this is not a mikrosoft windows release you know!!! -munir --- Clay Fandre wrote: > I know, I know. It's on my todo list. Hopefully I > will get to it by 2004 > or so. > > Colin Kilbane wrote: > > > > Ya know what we ought to do? We need to have a > page off of the website > > dedicated to for sale. Like we send an email to > compswap@mn-linux.org and > > it gets posted on the site and then at the end of > the day, it gets > > digested and sent out to the members on the list. > I bet most of us have > > parts or whole machines we would like to swap, > sell, and buy. > > > > Colin Kilbane > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From m_nassar at yahoo.com Thu May 24 20:54:43 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Creating a Win backup; was: hardware recommendation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010525015443.74247.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com> you seem to be correct... DOS/Windows 95/98 will not even bootup if you create more than one primary FAT/FAT32 partition...(get your hands on GNU parted and try it out) -munir --- Joshua Jore wrote: > Actually, I seem to recall that dos and win9x/me all > want exactly one > primary partition with everything else in one to > four logical partitions > in an extended partition. I've never actually had a > problem with two or > more primary partitions but there is a MS KB article > citing possible data > loss. I've alwaysb assumed that there is a rarely > used part of windows > that will do something spectacular if it finds the > extra primary > partitions. Of course, this only applies to (V)FAT. > Primary partitions of > other types are invisible as always. > > Josh > > ___SIG___ > > On Thu, 24 May 2001, Munir Nassar wrote: > > > not necessarily true, i usually put a /boot ext2 > > partition at the beginning of the drive (back in > the > > days of the old lilo) and after that i put > windows... > > the only thing it really needs it > > > > A) it be a primary partition > > B) there be no more than 4 primary partitions on > the > > drive (you can have more if they are hidden > primaries) > > > > -munir > > --- "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" > > wrote: > > > Windows will only boot from the first partition > on > > > the primiary hard > > > drive. Though with some lilo tricks your can get > it > > > to boot off the first > > > partition of any harddrive. > > > > > > | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 > | > > > | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 > | > > > | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 > | > > > | His power apparently lies in his ability to > | > > > | choose incompetent enemies. > | > > > | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" > | > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > ===== > > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > > Version: 3.12 > > GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ > w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ > X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ > > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great > prices > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From m_nassar at yahoo.com Thu May 24 21:01:13 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] anyone still keeping count? Message-ID: <20010525020113.32460.qmail@web10104.mail.yahoo.com> anyone still keeping count of how many ways linux beats Win2Krap? well here is one more: there is a linux bootdisk that has NTFS support and you can use this floppy to "recover" windows 2000/NT4/NT3.51 Administrator passwords... talk about sloppy security! -munir ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From jasonj at innominatus.com Thu May 24 21:27:18 2001 From: jasonj at innominatus.com (Jason J) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Creating a Win backup; was: hardware recommendation References: <20010525015443.74247.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B0DC306.D81DD108@innominatus.com> DOS and windows will boot if there are more than one primary partitions of any type. Its just that dos/windows wants to be on the first primary partition. NT and 2000 will boot fine from other paritions. There can be a maximum of 4 partitions on a hard drive. These 4 or made up of primary and extended partitions. Typically 4 primary or 3 primary and 1 extended. That extended partition can have infinite (i am sure there is a max but i dont know it) logical partitions. You can not boot from an extended/logical partition. I believe as long as you have one parition that contains boot information for the other OS's you can get more than just 3 or 4 OS's on a box. Though I have never even attempted a 5-Boot system. I did have Win98, Win2000(unhidden FAT on a logical partition), BeOS 5 and Debian (Swap drive on logical partition) on one machine, but that got old quick. Now its just Win2000 and Debian. Correct me if I am wrong please. Munir Nassar wrote: > you seem to be correct... DOS/Windows 95/98 will not > even bootup if you create more than one primary > FAT/FAT32 partition...(get your hands on GNU parted > and try it out) > > -munir > --- Joshua Jore wrote: > > Actually, I seem to recall that dos and win9x/me all > > want exactly one > > primary partition with everything else in one to > > four logical partitions > > in an extended partition. I've never actually had a > > problem with two or > > more primary partitions but there is a MS KB article > > citing possible data > > loss. I've alwaysb assumed that there is a rarely > > used part of windows > > that will do something spectacular if it finds the > > extra primary > > partitions. Of course, this only applies to (V)FAT. > > Primary partitions of > > other types are invisible as always. > > > > Josh > > > > ___SIG___ > > > > On Thu, 24 May 2001, Munir Nassar wrote: > > > > > not necessarily true, i usually put a /boot ext2 > > > partition at the beginning of the drive (back in > > the > > > days of the old lilo) and after that i put > > windows... > > > the only thing it really needs it > > > > > > A) it be a primary partition > > > B) there be no more than 4 primary partitions on > > the > > > drive (you can have more if they are hidden > > primaries) > > > > > > -munir > > > --- "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" > > > wrote: > > > > Windows will only boot from the first partition > > on > > > > the primiary hard > > > > drive. Though with some lilo tricks your can get > > it > > > > to boot off the first > > > > partition of any harddrive. > > > > > > > > | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 > > | > > > > | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 > > | > > > > | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 > > | > > > > | His power apparently lies in his ability to > > | > > > > | choose incompetent enemies. > > | > > > > | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" > > | > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > > > > > > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > > > Version: 3.12 > > > GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ > > w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ > > X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ > > > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great > > prices > > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > ===== > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version: 3.12 > GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jacque at fruitioninc.com Thu May 24 22:01:46 2001 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Volunteering, was: Computers anyone? In-Reply-To: <3B0DB910.FC49E7F@fandre.com> Message-ID: You know, Clay is a really busy man right now, but Clay shouldn't have to be responsible to put *everything* together anyways. Any other LUGies want to volunteer to put this kind of stuff together? If we had more serious volunteers we could impliment all kinds of cool things on the website. And, as a plus, you, who create it, would be able to add it your resume or portfolio! Ask not what your LUG can do for you.... ~jacque > > I know, I know. It's on my todo list. Hopefully I will get to it by 2004 > or so. > > Colin Kilbane wrote: > > > > Ya know what we ought to do? We need to have a page off of the website > > dedicated to for sale. Like we send an email to > compswap@mn-linux.org and > > it gets posted on the site and then at the end of the day, it gets > > digested and sent out to the members on the list. I bet most of us have > > parts or whole machines we would like to swap, sell, and buy. > > > > Colin Kilbane > > From m_nassar at yahoo.com Thu May 24 22:11:56 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DOS boot process; was:Creating a Win backup; was: hardware recommendation In-Reply-To: <3B0DC306.D81DD108@innominatus.com> Message-ID: <20010525031156.64492.qmail@web10106.mail.yahoo.com> my machine right here has 1st primary /boot for linux boot info (remember lilo bugs?) 2nd primary partition with Win98boot 3rd primary is extended containing 3 logicals (swap, home and /) i am not sure exactly what role LILO plays here but here is my story and ill stick to it untill im proven wrong... windows needs to be _A_ primary partition in order to boot up, it also needs to be the only primary partition that is visible (not hidden) let me explain: the DOS boot loader (which windows uses as well) is stored on the MBR (not on the first primary partition, remember fdisk /mbr) DOS loader is so stupid that it can only select one partion to load and since it can only see FAT partitions it will just chose the first partition it can _see_ but if there is more than one primary FAT partition it gets confused and locks up wow, that is quite a rant dont you think? -munir --- Jason J wrote: > DOS and windows will boot if there are more than one > primary partitions of any type. Its just that > dos/windows wants to be on the first primary > partition. NT and 2000 will boot fine from other > paritions. > > There can be a maximum of 4 partitions on a hard > drive. These 4 or made up of primary and extended > partitions. Typically 4 primary or 3 primary and > 1 extended. That extended partition can have > infinite (i am sure there is a max but i dont know > it) logical partitions. You can not boot from an > extended/logical partition. > > I believe as long as you have one parition that > contains boot information for the other OS's you can > get more than just 3 or 4 OS's on a box. > Though I have never even attempted a 5-Boot system. > I did have Win98, Win2000(unhidden FAT on a logical > partition), BeOS 5 and Debian (Swap drive > on logical partition) on one machine, but that got > old quick. Now its just Win2000 and Debian. > > Correct me if I am wrong please. > ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From florin at iucha.net Thu May 24 22:15:02 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Creating a Win backup; was: hardware recommendation In-Reply-To: ; from zibby@ringworld.org on Thu, May 24, 2001 at 03:40:36PM -0500 References: <20010524203030.19488.qmail@web11102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010524221502.A19778@beaver.iucha.org> On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 03:40:36PM -0500, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > Windows will only boot from the first partition on the primiary hard > drive. Though with some lilo tricks your can get it to boot off the first > partition of any harddrive. That's not true. Windows will only boot from the firts _FAT_ partition. It needs not to be the first. And there are no lilo tricks: just say other=/dev/ florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Thu May 24 22:14:58 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Volunteering, was: Computers anyone? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'll volunteer. I'm not an expert, but I play one on TV. :) Phil M On Thu, 24 May 2001, Jacqueline Urick wrote: > > You know, Clay is a really busy man right now, but Clay shouldn't have to be > responsible to put *everything* together anyways. > > Any other LUGies want to volunteer to put this kind of stuff together? If we > had more serious volunteers we could impliment all kinds of cool things on > the website. And, as a plus, you, who create it, would be able to add it > your resume or portfolio! > > Ask not what your LUG can do for you.... > > > ~jacque > > > > > I know, I know. It's on my todo list. Hopefully I will get to it by 2004 > > or so. > > > > Colin Kilbane wrote: > > > > > > Ya know what we ought to do? We need to have a page off of the website > > > dedicated to for sale. Like we send an email to > > compswap@mn-linux.org and > > > it gets posted on the site and then at the end of the day, it gets > > > digested and sent out to the members on the list. I bet most of us have > > > parts or whole machines we would like to swap, sell, and buy. > > > > > > Colin Kilbane > > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From jethro at freakzilla.com Thu May 24 22:18:08 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Volunteering, was: Computers anyone? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, On Thu, 24 May 2001, Jacqueline Urick wrote: > Any other LUGies want to volunteer to put this kind of stuff together? If we > had more serious volunteers we could impliment all kinds of cool things on > the website. And, as a plus, you, who create it, would be able to add it > your resume or portfolio! I've been more than happy to do web-stuff for LUG projects (ORDER LOKI GAMES), but my problem is, well, I do these things in really shoddy "I-only-had-5-minutes" Perl. They should NOT be on a public server! However, I agree - make your own computer/hardware trading thing! That'd be neat. If someone doesn't do it soon, I will. And it'll be in Perl, so all you PHP-geeks better beat me to it! -Yaron -- From florin at iucha.net Thu May 24 22:21:08 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] anyone still keeping count? In-Reply-To: <20010525020113.32460.qmail@web10104.mail.yahoo.com>; from m_nassar@yahoo.com on Thu, May 24, 2001 at 07:01:13PM -0700 References: <20010525020113.32460.qmail@web10104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010524222108.B19778@beaver.iucha.org> On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 07:01:13PM -0700, Munir Nassar wrote: > anyone still keeping count of how many ways linux > beats Win2Krap? well here is one more: > > there is a linux bootdisk that has NTFS support and > you can use this floppy to "recover" windows > 2000/NT4/NT3.51 Administrator passwords... talk about > sloppy security! Not to nitpick too much here but with a boot/root linux disk I can do that too with your Linux box. When you are close enough to a computer that you can stick a floppy into, then "security" means other things. It's one thing to "root" a box over the net. If you can press ctrl-alt-del it's no problem. (go single mode, boot from floppy, take the hdd in your pocket, DOS the box with a sledgehammer... take your pick). florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From colin at tyr.med.umn.edu Thu May 24 22:22:19 2001 From: colin at tyr.med.umn.edu (Colin Kilbane) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Volunteering, was: Computers anyone? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Got a point there... Colin From esper at sherohman.org Thu May 24 22:53:18 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] anyone still keeping count? In-Reply-To: <20010524222108.B19778@beaver.iucha.org>; from florin@iucha.net on Thu, May 24, 2001 at 10:21:08PM -0500 References: <20010525020113.32460.qmail@web10104.mail.yahoo.com> <20010524222108.B19778@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20010524225318.A18986@sherohman.org> On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 10:21:08PM -0500, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 07:01:13PM -0700, Munir Nassar wrote: > > there is a linux bootdisk that has NTFS support and > > you can use this floppy to "recover" windows > > 2000/NT4/NT3.51 Administrator passwords... talk about > > sloppy security! > > Not to nitpick too much here but with a boot/root linux disk I can do that too > with your Linux box. Not to nitpick too much, but it may not be the same thing, depending on what Munir meant by "recover". With a linux boot floppy, you can _reset_ the root password, but you still can't find out what the existing password is (which is what I take "recover the password" to mean). Changing the root/admin password to something you know gives you control of the box, but is immediately obvious to the real admin. And, as you pointed out, you really can't stop someone with physical access to the machine from doing this. Discovering the existing password is far, far worse. Not only is it not obvious to the box's legitimate owner, they may have used the same password on other systems, which you now have access to also. Fortunately, it's not too difficult to make this effectively impossible these days. -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From austad at marketwatch.com Fri May 25 00:35:11 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian from floppy Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807F5@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Is it true that I can just grab one or two debian floppies to get a bootable system, and then use apt-get to install the rest of the packages I need? If so, which disks do I need? Jay PS-If this email comes through wacky, or formatted in something other than plain text, please tell me. Outlook XP has all sorts of features that I tried to turn off, but I don't know if I got them all disabled. :) And please don't make fun of my windows box, I'm embarrassed enough that I have to use it. :( From austad at marketwatch.com Fri May 25 00:44:32 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] anyone still keeping count? Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807F6@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> A few years back, a certain ISP I had a shell account with wasn't using shadow passwords. I used John the Ripper on my 486, and cracked 4000 of their 6000 users passwords, including root (took about 2 weeks of processing). My friend worked there, and I gave the info to him and he promptly implemented a password policy. Not good, especially since I'm sure many of those people used the same passwords for various other things. It didn't get any passwords with symbols in them though. If you put symbols in them, and keep them at least 8 or 10 chars long, it should be fairly hard for someone to crack it. Unless of course they grab the hash from a windows box and use lophtcrack. In the windows world, you pretty much have to change it every 20-30 days, because that's about all the time it will take lophtcrack to get any windows password, unless MS finally fixed the split hash thing. BTW, does anyone know of any free/cheap alternatives to the RSA AceServer? I'd like to implement something like this on some of my personal equipment. Jay -----Original Message----- From: Dave Sherohman [mailto:esper@sherohman.org] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 10:53 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] anyone still keeping count? On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 10:21:08PM -0500, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 07:01:13PM -0700, Munir Nassar wrote: > > there is a linux bootdisk that has NTFS support and > > you can use this floppy to "recover" windows > > 2000/NT4/NT3.51 Administrator passwords... talk about > > sloppy security! > > Not to nitpick too much here but with a boot/root linux disk I can do that too > with your Linux box. Not to nitpick too much, but it may not be the same thing, depending on what Munir meant by "recover". With a linux boot floppy, you can _reset_ the root password, but you still can't find out what the existing password is (which is what I take "recover the password" to mean). Changing the root/admin password to something you know gives you control of the box, but is immediately obvious to the real admin. And, as you pointed out, you really can't stop someone with physical access to the machine from doing this. Discovering the existing password is far, far worse. Not only is it not obvious to the box's legitimate owner, they may have used the same password on other systems, which you now have access to also. Fortunately, it's not too difficult to make this effectively impossible these days. -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From m_nassar at yahoo.com Fri May 25 01:00:12 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] anyone still keeping count? In-Reply-To: <20010524222108.B19778@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20010525060012.54412.qmail@web10104.mail.yahoo.com> ahh yess... but niether work with another operating system... it is usually.. use linux to crack linux, use winnt to crack winnt NOW it is use linux to crack winnt... see the difference? it is just to show the versatility of linux -munir --- Florin Iucha wrote: > On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 07:01:13PM -0700, Munir > Nassar wrote: > > anyone still keeping count of how many ways linux > > beats Win2Krap? well here is one more: > > > > there is a linux bootdisk that has NTFS support > and > > you can use this floppy to "recover" windows > > 2000/NT4/NT3.51 Administrator passwords... talk > about > > sloppy security! > > Not to nitpick too much here but with a boot/root > linux disk I can do that too > with your Linux box. > > When you are close enough to a computer that you can > stick a floppy into, then > "security" means other things. > > It's one thing to "root" a box over the net. If you > can press ctrl-alt-del it's > no problem. (go single mode, boot from floppy, take > the hdd in your pocket, > DOS the box with a sledgehammer... take your pick). > > florin > > -- > > "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make > this change take effect" > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From m_nassar at yahoo.com Fri May 25 01:01:15 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian from floppy In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807F5@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20010525060115.97842.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com> actually you need quite a few more than two, more like 10 i think... -munir --- "Austad, Jay" wrote: > Is it true that I can just grab one or two debian > floppies to get a bootable > system, and then use apt-get to install the rest of > the packages I need? > > If so, which disks do I need? > > Jay > > PS-If this email comes through wacky, or formatted > in something other than > plain text, please tell me. Outlook XP has all > sorts of features that I > tried to turn off, but I don't know if I got them > all disabled. :) > > And please don't make fun of my windows box, I'm > embarrassed enough that I > have to use it. :( > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri May 25 01:07:38 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian from floppy In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807F5@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 May 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > Is it true that I can just grab one or two debian floppies to get a bootable > system, and then use apt-get to install the rest of the packages I need? > > If so, which disks do I need? Yes, it's true, but it might take more than 2 floppies. Depends on the release and which modules you might need. Um, rescue and modules. There might be 3 modules disks. As long as it gets your ethernet card, you should be good to go. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From jethro at freakzilla.com Fri May 25 01:13:49 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LOKI Game Order Message-ID: Hi there, Ok, here's how it's going to happen: I am going to CLOSE THE REGISTRATION next Friday, June 1st. If you would like to get in on the orders, PLEASE DO SO ASAP. After that I will send out confirmation Emails to everyone who's registered. This'll include a list of games you've signed up for, and how much it'll cost you. YOU WILL HAVE TO REPLY AND CONFIRM YOUR SELECTION. If you do not reply, I will remove your order from the list. I'll let the list know when I'm done sending these out, so that people I may have missed can contact me. I will thencontact Loki and give them our list. Hopefully they'll approve (Andy's info suggests they may, despite not having 10 of each title). You will then be asked to pay in advance. I'm not sure who'll be handling this yet. Once all payments are received, we will most likely make an MO or give Loki a credit card number. Games will be distributed at LUG events. This is in accordance with loki's requirement. Sounds like that's about it. Questions, comments and suggestions welcome. -Yaron -- From seg at haxxed.com Fri May 25 02:50:19 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Volunteering, was: Computers anyone? References: Message-ID: <3B0E0EBB.803D8D37@haxxed.com> Yaron wrote: > > Hi, > > On Thu, 24 May 2001, Jacqueline Urick wrote: > > > Any other LUGies want to volunteer to put this kind of stuff together? If we > > had more serious volunteers we could impliment all kinds of cool things on > > the website. And, as a plus, you, who create it, would be able to add it > > your resume or portfolio! > > I've been more than happy to do web-stuff for LUG projects (ORDER LOKI > GAMES), but my problem is, well, I do these things in really shoddy > "I-only-had-5-minutes" Perl. They should NOT be on a public server! > > However, I agree - make your own computer/hardware trading thing! That'd > be neat. If someone doesn't do it soon, I will. And it'll be in Perl, so > all you PHP-geeks better beat me to it! Well, I've been playing with Postgresql and PHP, and am starting to think myself a god. I could come up with something massively overcomplex and overdesigned given some encouragement and a few weeks time... Hmmm... I'm thinking something ebayish, but you make a deal with the 'seller' in email then the seller takes the ad down, rather than formal bidding... From seg at haxxed.com Fri May 25 03:05:05 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Volunteering, was: Computers anyone? References: <3B0E0EBB.803D8D37@haxxed.com> Message-ID: <3B0E1231.CF42A2A1@haxxed.com> > I'm thinking something ebayish, but you make a deal with the 'seller' in > email then the seller takes the ad down, rather than formal bidding... Actually, I've got a great idea, rip off Webswap... Which seems to have totally gone under. Hmmm. http://www.webswap.com/ From florin at iucha.net Fri May 25 08:07:20 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] anyone still keeping count? In-Reply-To: <20010524225318.A18986@sherohman.org>; from esper@sherohman.org on Thu, May 24, 2001 at 10:53:18PM -0500 References: <20010525020113.32460.qmail@web10104.mail.yahoo.com> <20010524222108.B19778@beaver.iucha.org> <20010524225318.A18986@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20010525080720.A16181@beaver.iucha.org> On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 10:53:18PM -0500, Dave Sherohman wrote: > On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 10:21:08PM -0500, Florin Iucha wrote: > > On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 07:01:13PM -0700, Munir Nassar wrote: > > > there is a linux bootdisk that has NTFS support and > > > you can use this floppy to "recover" windows > > > 2000/NT4/NT3.51 Administrator passwords... talk about > > > sloppy security! > > > > Not to nitpick too much here but with a boot/root linux disk I can do that too > > with your Linux box. > > Not to nitpick too much, but it may not be the same thing, depending on what > Munir meant by "recover". With a linux boot floppy, you can _reset_ the root > password, but you still can't find out what the existing password is (which > is what I take "recover the password" to mean). Well, You already started: if you _are_ root on the box you can fetch /etc/passwd, /etc/shadow and feed them through seti@home and get the plain password. The idea of using Seti@Home just spring to my mind - are you sure all your computing time is going to find little green guys? What if somebody at UCB "modified" some clients to do some usefull work? > Discovering the existing password is far, far worse. Not only is it not > obvious to the box's legitimate owner, they may have used the same password > on other systems, which you now have access to also. Fortunately, it's not > too difficult to make this effectively impossible these days. Worse, but doable. florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From blutgens at sistina.com Fri May 25 07:41:29 2001 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian from floppy In-Reply-To: <20010525060115.97842.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com>; from m_nassar@yahoo.com on Thu, May 24, 2001 at 11:01:15PM -0700 References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807F5@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> <20010525060115.97842.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010525074128.A24184@minime.sistina.com> On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 11:01:15PM -0700, Munir Nassar wrote: >actually you need quite a few more than two, more like >10 i think... rescue.bin (initial boot disk, and used to install kernel) root.bin (Initrd, duh) driver-[1-4].bin $ driver disks. > > -munir > >--- "Austad, Jay" wrote: >> Is it true that I can just grab one or two debian >> floppies to get a bootable >> system, and then use apt-get to install the rest of >> the packages I need? >> >> If so, which disks do I need? >> >> Jay >> >> PS-If this email comes through wacky, or formatted >> in something other than >> plain text, please tell me. Outlook XP has all >> sorts of features that I >> tried to turn off, but I don't know if I got them >> all disabled. :) >> >> And please don't make fun of my windows box, I'm >> embarrassed enough that I >> have to use it. :( >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> tclug-list mailing list >> tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > >===== >-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- >Version: 3.12 >GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ >------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices >http://auctions.yahoo.com/ >_______________________________________________ >tclug-list mailing list >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Ben Lutgens Sistina Software Inc. MIS Geek http://www.sistina.com/ <--- great software http://www.gentoo.org/ <--- great distro Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream <--- perfect error message -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010525/9443362e/attachment.pgp From zibby at ringworld.org Fri May 25 08:31:35 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian from floppy In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807F5@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: Generally, you need three floppies to install Debian. The Rescue floppy, the root floppy, and the drivers floppy. (Use the compact or compact-scsi set.) As long as you're network drivers are on the drivers floppy (only the most common are on the compact disks, the full set has everything) you're in business. As soon as your system is partitioned, formated, and network configured, the installer will fetch the rest of the system. (So you don't have to have teh 13 disk base.) There are single disk installers in the works. I think Progeny has one that kinda works, and the next boot floppies (after woody) will be like this. At least that's what memory tells me. | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From dopp at acm.cs.umn.edu Fri May 25 07:51:58 2001 From: dopp at acm.cs.umn.edu (dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] anyone still keeping count? In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807F6@mspexch1.office.mktw.net>; from austad@marketwatch.com on Fri, May 25, 2001 at 12:44:32AM -0500 References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62807F6@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20010525075158.A22629@sorry.cs.umn.edu> > Not good, especially since I'm sure many of those people used the same > passwords for various other things. It didn't get any passwords with > symbols in them though. If you put symbols in them, and keep them at least > 8 or 10 chars long, it should be fairly hard for someone to crack it. > Unless of course they grab the hash from a windows box and use lophtcrack. > In the windows world, you pretty much have to change it every 20-30 days, > because that's about all the time it will take lophtcrack to get any windows > password, unless MS finally fixed the split hash thing. Actually, Windows (at least NT and presumably 2k as well), do have a different hash than Lan-Man (sic) that is slightly better. It's takes registry hacking though. Gabe -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gabe Turner | X-President, SGI Origin Systems Administrator, | Assoc. for Computing Machinery U of M Supercomputing Institute for | University of Minnesohta Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation | dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu "I like the same theengs you do: wax paper, boiled football leather, dog breath!!" - Commander Hoek (Ren) in "Space Madness" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From stauffer_james at yahoo.com Fri May 25 07:54:40 2001 From: stauffer_james at yahoo.com (James A. N. Stauffer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian from floppy In-Reply-To: <20010525060115.97842.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010525125440.73972.qmail@web11502.mail.yahoo.com> Only 3 for a network install. --- Munir Nassar wrote: > actually you need quite a few more than two, more like > 10 i think... > > -munir > > --- "Austad, Jay" wrote: > > Is it true that I can just grab one or two debian > > floppies to get a bootable > > system, and then use apt-get to install the rest of > > the packages I need? > > > > If so, which disks do I need? > > > > Jay > > > > PS-If this email comes through wacky, or formatted > > in something other than > > plain text, please tell me. Outlook XP has all > > sorts of features that I > > tried to turn off, but I don't know if I got them > > all disabled. :) > > > > And please don't make fun of my windows box, I'm > > embarrassed enough that I > > have to use it. :( > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > ===== > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version: 3.12 > GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ > PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ===== = o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ _____=======_||___ o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | | Stauffer_James | .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | | @yahoo.com | >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|________________| _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o¬o¬o o¬o¬o` 'o¬o o¬o` __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Fri May 25 08:00:18 2001 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LOKI Game Order In-Reply-To: ; from jethro@freakzilla.com on Fri, May 25, 2001 at 01:13:49AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010525080018.A25694@baker.space.umn.edu> On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 01:13:49AM -0500, Yaron wrote: > You will then be asked to pay in advance. I'm not sure who'll be handling > this yet. Once all payments are received, we will most likely make an MO > or give Loki a credit card number. > > Games will be distributed at LUG events. This is in accordance with loki's > requirement. > > > Sounds like that's about it. Questions, comments and suggestions welcome. A couple of things: I don't think that the "Update Order" feature is working on the game order web site. I can get to my order fine, but I can't make any changes in it (I'm trying to drop Civ:CTP and replace it with SMAC due to some reviews that I read). I tried from netscape 4.7x and a fairly recent mozilla build. Also, if nobody has volunteered to use their credit card yet, I probably could. That is assuming the order doesn't double in size in the next week ;) . -- Jim Crumley | crumley@fields.space.umn.edu | Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378 | From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri May 25 09:09:49 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Volunteering, was: Computers anyone? In-Reply-To: <3B0E0EBB.803D8D37@haxxed.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 May 2001, Callum Lerwick wrote: > I'm thinking something ebayish, but you make a deal with the 'seller' in > email then the seller takes the ad down, rather than formal bidding... I think that Wiki stuff would be OK, if authenticated, but you guys know web stuff better than I. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Fri May 25 09:40:21 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] anyone still keeping count? In-Reply-To: <20010525020113.32460.qmail@web10104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Well... to be fair you can do the same thing to a linux system. Boot up, get RO access to / and run crack against the passwd file. There's nothing unique in that. You can make standard NT boot disks using something from sysinternals. If you pay a RW version is available. Linux is pretty cool but let's be fair here. Josh ___SIG___ On Thu, 24 May 2001, Munir Nassar wrote: > anyone still keeping count of how many ways linux > beats Win2Krap? well here is one more: > > there is a linux bootdisk that has NTFS support and > you can use this floppy to "recover" windows > 2000/NT4/NT3.51 Administrator passwords... talk about > sloppy security! > > -munir > > ===== > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version: 3.12 > GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Fri May 25 09:46:58 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DOS boot process; was:Creating a Win backup; was: hardware recommendation In-Reply-To: <20010525031156.64492.qmail@web10106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Lilo provides the ability to jump outside of the partitioning madness. For most other OSes it will transfer control to the appropriate partition (extended or otherwise). For linux it stored the on-disk location of the kernel and loads it directly. That means that when booting a linux kernel LILO completely bypasses the partitioning system. That is why you need to run lilo whenever you recompile your kernel. It's a new file at a different location (most times) and lilo has to go find it again. Josh ___SIG___ On Thu, 24 May 2001, Munir Nassar wrote: > my machine right here has > 1st primary /boot for linux boot info (remember lilo > bugs?) > 2nd primary partition with Win98boot > 3rd primary is extended containing 3 logicals (swap, > home and /) > > i am not sure exactly what role LILO plays here but > here is my story and ill stick to it untill im proven > wrong... > > windows needs to be _A_ primary partition in order to > boot up, it also needs to be the only primary > partition that is visible (not hidden) let me explain: > > the DOS boot loader (which windows uses as well) is > stored on the MBR (not on the first primary partition, > remember fdisk /mbr) DOS loader is so stupid that it > can only select one partion to load and since it can > only see FAT partitions it will just chose the first > partition it can _see_ but if there is more than one > primary FAT partition it gets confused and locks up > > > > wow, that is quite a rant dont you think? > > -munir > > > --- Jason J wrote: > > DOS and windows will boot if there are more than one > > primary partitions of any type. Its just that > > dos/windows wants to be on the first primary > > partition. NT and 2000 will boot fine from other > > paritions. > > > > There can be a maximum of 4 partitions on a hard > > drive. These 4 or made up of primary and extended > > partitions. Typically 4 primary or 3 primary and > > 1 extended. That extended partition can have > > infinite (i am sure there is a max but i dont know > > it) logical partitions. You can not boot from an > > extended/logical partition. > > > > I believe as long as you have one parition that > > contains boot information for the other OS's you can > > get more than just 3 or 4 OS's on a box. > > Though I have never even attempted a 5-Boot system. > > I did have Win98, Win2000(unhidden FAT on a logical > > partition), BeOS 5 and Debian (Swap drive > > on logical partition) on one machine, but that got > > old quick. Now its just Win2000 and Debian. > > > > Correct me if I am wrong please. > > > > > ===== > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version: 3.12 > GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Fri May 25 09:52:12 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Creating a Win backup; was: hardware recommendation In-Reply-To: <3B0DC306.D81DD108@innominatus.com> Message-ID: Given the capabilities of LILO, you can probably fit eight OSes on a single drive. The idea is transfer control directly to the applicable partition. I assume you're not doing other things like disklabels which I don't understand yet (hello BSD!) You may have to perform some magic to convince each OS to put itself in some locations. MS* would probably be a really big bear to convince to install to a logical partition. Specifically you'd probably designate that location on disk as primary, install your OS, remap that space to a logical drive and then use lilo in your MBR. It's certainly not for the faint of heart since I don't know that the existing partitioning tools would help you do that sort of heresy. There are plenty of docs on the internet that describe your partition table format so you could go edit it yourself to get this result. All in all probably more work that it is worth but certainly achievable. Josh ___SIG___ On Thu, 24 May 2001, Jason J wrote: > DOS and windows will boot if there are more than one primary partitions of any type. Its just that dos/windows wants to be on the first primary > partition. NT and 2000 will boot fine from other paritions. > > There can be a maximum of 4 partitions on a hard drive. These 4 or made up of primary and extended partitions. Typically 4 primary or 3 primary and > 1 extended. That extended partition can have infinite (i am sure there is a max but i dont know it) logical partitions. You can not boot from an > extended/logical partition. > > I believe as long as you have one parition that contains boot information for the other OS's you can get more than just 3 or 4 OS's on a box. > Though I have never even attempted a 5-Boot system. I did have Win98, Win2000(unhidden FAT on a logical partition), BeOS 5 and Debian (Swap drive > on logical partition) on one machine, but that got old quick. Now its just Win2000 and Debian. > > Correct me if I am wrong please. > > > > Munir Nassar wrote: > > > you seem to be correct... DOS/Windows 95/98 will not > > even bootup if you create more than one primary > > FAT/FAT32 partition...(get your hands on GNU parted > > and try it out) > > > > -munir > > --- Joshua Jore wrote: > > > Actually, I seem to recall that dos and win9x/me all > > > want exactly one > > > primary partition with everything else in one to > > > four logical partitions > > > in an extended partition. I've never actually had a > > > problem with two or > > > more primary partitions but there is a MS KB article > > > citing possible data > > > loss. I've alwaysb assumed that there is a rarely > > > used part of windows > > > that will do something spectacular if it finds the > > > extra primary > > > partitions. Of course, this only applies to (V)FAT. > > > Primary partitions of > > > other types are invisible as always. > > > > > > Josh > > > > > > ___SIG___ > > > > > > On Thu, 24 May 2001, Munir Nassar wrote: > > > > > > > not necessarily true, i usually put a /boot ext2 > > > > partition at the beginning of the drive (back in > > > the > > > > days of the old lilo) and after that i put > > > windows... > > > > the only thing it really needs it > > > > > > > > A) it be a primary partition > > > > B) there be no more than 4 primary partitions on > > > the > > > > drive (you can have more if they are hidden > > > primaries) > > > > > > > > -munir > > > > --- "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" > > > > wrote: > > > > > Windows will only boot from the first partition > > > on > > > > > the primiary hard > > > > > drive. Though with some lilo tricks your can get > > > it > > > > > to boot off the first > > > > > partition of any harddrive. > > > > > > > > > > | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 > > > | > > > > > | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 > > > | > > > > > | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 > > > | > > > > > | His power apparently lies in his ability to > > > | > > > > > | choose incompetent enemies. > > > | > > > > > | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" > > > | > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > > > > Version: 3.12 > > > > GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ > > > w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ > > > X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ > > > > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great > > > prices > > > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > > > > > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > ===== > > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > > Version: 3.12 > > GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ > > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From fertch at mninter.net Fri May 25 09:55:51 2001 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xsessions to Sun boxes Message-ID: <3B0E7277.A9D1AE69@mninter.net> Okay, I know this was covered not too long ago. I'm lacking in time however to do a good research. Can someone give me a quick rundown on how to initiate an xsession on a Sun box from a linux box if it's possible? 1. Log into local box (text mode I'm assuming no gui) 2. Initiate xterm from other box. Command I have no clue what to even try. I'm also assuming that my profile on the box I'm trying to connect to also needs the xsession in it's path. Sorry for not being able to fully research through the archives and asking on this again. Shawn From spencer at sihope.com Fri May 25 10:46:59 2001 From: spencer at sihope.com (AAAunderground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Creating a Win backup; was: hardware recommendation References: <200105242050.f4OKoYK24485@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B0E7E73.7178F5E1@sihope.com> > The reasoning I follow is this. If we take the example of a record > (as in LP, vinyl), a point in the outside moves faster relative to a > point closer to the center. If hard drives were vinyl LPs, I would want That was the case with older drives. But definately all new drives have a design built into them that allow the drive to spin at the same speed thoughout the platter. Unfortunatly I can not think of the name of the technology that allows this right now. It is the same thing that is used in cdroms for the same purpose. So to answer the question , no it doesn't matter on a performance or accesibility level where you store crucial files. As far as restoration goes, as long as you do the /s switch with the format command or sys C:\ the drive will be bootable. If the cd throughs a ro file that you need to change, use the attrib command. I think attrib -r +a will make the file rw and archive. -Spencer Underground From esper at sherohman.org Fri May 25 09:53:04 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] anyone still keeping count? Message-ID: <20010525095304.D23206@sherohman.org> On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 08:07:20AM -0500, Florin Iucha wrote: > > Discovering the existing password is far, far worse. Not only is it not > > obvious to the box's legitimate owner, they may have used the same password > > on other systems, which you now have access to also. Fortunately, it's not > > too difficult to make this effectively impossible these days. > > Worse, but doable. I was wondering whether you would say that... I just created a dummy user with an old root password from one of my boxes; I'll give you the /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow entries. If cracking it is "doable", I'll be very interested to have you tell me what the password is. If you can convince seti@home or distributed.net to help you, I figure your odds are pretty good. Or maybe someone will announce a technique tomorrow for quickly factoring very large numbers, making most of modern crypto obsolete. Otherwise, I expect it to take a long, long time. Long enough to qualify as "effectively impossible", just like I said earlier. Anyhow, here you go: nonroot:x:1000:1000:Old root password,,,:/home/nonroot:/bin/bash nonroot:$1$saU95BKR$Q9M1KZCIxqopXTp4D/O.q1:11467:0:99999:7::: Have fun. (Note: I originally just sent this to Florin and have since explained that I didn't mean to be hard on him, but this seemed like the best way to illustrate that, while it may be theoritically and technically possible to crack a strong password under strong crypto, it's a practical impossibility.) -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri May 25 10:05:23 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xsessions to Sun boxes In-Reply-To: <3B0E7277.A9D1AE69@mninter.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 May 2001, Shawn wrote: > Okay, I know this was covered not too long ago. I'm lacking in time > however to do a good research. Can someone give me a quick rundown on > how to initiate an xsession on a Sun box from a linux box if it's > possible? Are you saying to just want to run clients from the remote machine on your local X server, (ssh is the easiest), or are you saying you want to make something like xdm on the far machine manage your display? -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From florin at iucha.net Fri May 25 10:05:31 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] anyone still keeping count? In-Reply-To: <20010525095045.C23206@sherohman.org>; from esper@sherohman.org on Fri, May 25, 2001 at 09:50:45AM -0500 References: <20010525020113.32460.qmail@web10104.mail.yahoo.com> <20010524222108.B19778@beaver.iucha.org> <20010524225318.A18986@sherohman.org> <20010525080720.A16181@beaver.iucha.org> <20010525092633.A23206@sherohman.org> <20010525094311.A18677@beaver.iucha.org> <20010525095045.C23206@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20010525100531.A17529@beaver.iucha.org> On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 09:50:45AM -0500, Dave Sherohman wrote: > On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 09:43:11AM -0500, Florin Iucha wrote: > > I did not say _I_ have the brain|computing power to do it. > > > > I said it can be done, given enough resources... > > > > It was not meant as a challenge. Sorry... > > I didn't take it as one, really, but it seemed the best way of getting the > point across that, although it's technically and theoretically possible to > crack a strong password under strong crypto, it's a practical impossibility > given the current technology. Well, whomever takes the risks to get near your box supposedly knows what to do with it 8-). And the thought about only NSA/CIA/whatever having the computing power required to crack <...> sparked the idea that _maybe_ they don't have it but they are smart enough to make us to "contribute" our spare cycles. florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From florin at iucha.net Fri May 25 10:12:50 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Creating a Win backup; was: hardware recommendation In-Reply-To: <3B0E7E73.7178F5E1@sihope.com>; from spencer@sihope.com on Fri, May 25, 2001 at 08:46:59AM -0700 References: <200105242050.f4OKoYK24485@sprite.real-time.com> <3B0E7E73.7178F5E1@sihope.com> Message-ID: <20010525101250.B17529@beaver.iucha.org> On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 08:46:59AM -0700, AAAunderground wrote: > > The reasoning I follow is this. If we take the example of a record > > (as in LP, vinyl), a point in the outside moves faster relative to a > > point closer to the center. If hard drives were vinyl LPs, I would want > > That was the case with older drives. But definately all new drives have > a design built into them that allow the drive to spin at the same speed > thoughout the platter. Unfortunatly I can not think of the name of the > technology that allows this right now. It is the same thing that is used > in cdroms for the same purpose. So to answer the question , no it > doesn't matter on a performance or accesibility level where you store > crucial files. Bzzzzt! Download bonnie++ from http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/. Compile it. You will have a program called 'zcav'. Run that on your harddrive and you will see how the speed is the greatest at the [logical] beginning of the disk and goes down toward the end. For instance my IBM scsi goes from 9.4 to 6.7 and the Maxtor IDE goes from 15.8 to 10.9 . florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From fertch at mninter.net Fri May 25 10:22:22 2001 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xsessions to Sun boxes References: Message-ID: <3B0E78AE.9B49DEE4@mninter.net> Uhh, sorry about that. Familiar with Exceed or Reflections? Where you can bring up an x-session and it shows the CDE dekstop on your Winblows machine? Looking for that. Hopefully that helps a bit more. Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > On Fri, 25 May 2001, Shawn wrote: > > > Okay, I know this was covered not too long ago. I'm lacking in time > > however to do a good research. Can someone give me a quick rundown on > > how to initiate an xsession on a Sun box from a linux box if it's > > possible? > > Are you saying to just want to run clients from the remote machine on your > local X server, (ssh is the easiest), or are you saying you want to make > something like xdm on the far machine manage your display? > > -- > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri May 25 10:22:45 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Creating a Win backup; was: hardware recommendation In-Reply-To: <20010525101250.B17529@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 May 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 08:46:59AM -0700, AAAunderground wrote: > > > The reasoning I follow is this. If we take the example of a record > > > (as in LP, vinyl), a point in the outside moves faster relative to a > > > point closer to the center. If hard drives were vinyl LPs, I would want > > > > That was the case with older drives. But definately all new drives have > > a design built into them that allow the drive to spin at the same speed > > thoughout the platter. Unfortunatly I can not think of the name of the > > technology that allows this right now. It is the same thing that is used > > in cdroms for the same purpose. So to answer the question , no it > > doesn't matter on a performance or accesibility level where you store > > crucial files. No, I don't believe that's correct. Linear track speed varies because rotational speed is constant on HDs. A 7200rpm drive isn't 6000-8200, it stays put. The first time I ran into variable speed was when Apple put it on the original Mac 3.5 floppy, I think. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri May 25 10:28:02 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xsessions to Sun boxes In-Reply-To: <3B0E78AE.9B49DEE4@mninter.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 May 2001, Shawn wrote: > Uhh, sorry about that. Familiar with Exceed or Reflections? Where you > can bring up an x-session and it shows the CDE dekstop on your Winblows > machine? Looking for that. Hopefully that helps a bit more. I'm not familiar with those, but it sounds like VNC stuff, which has both a windows and web based interface -- you can see your desktop anywhere that has a java enabled browser. Is that closer? (If not, I'll stop adding to the confusion.) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From zibby at ringworld.org Fri May 25 10:39:48 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xsessions to Sun boxes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Exceed and Reflections are windows Xservers. I think what you want to try is Xnext -geometry 800x600 -query sunbox This will start up a nested Xserver that will query sunbox. You'll have you're sun desktop in a window on your Linux desktop. | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From jethro at freakzilla.com Fri May 25 10:53:41 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LOKI Game Order In-Reply-To: <20010525080018.A25694@baker.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: Hi, On Fri, 25 May 2001, Jim Crumley wrote: > I don't think that the "Update Order" feature is working on the game > order web site. That's odd, it works fine for me no matter what browser I try (Mozilla, Netscape, Explorer, Konq). Might be a proxy thing? I dunno. If it persists, email me and I'll do it for you (this thing is NOT secure). > Also, if nobody has volunteered to use their credit card yet, I probably > could. That is assuming the order doesn't double in size in the next > week ;) . We'll remember that (: -Yaron -- From dutchman at uswest.net Fri May 25 10:53:42 2001 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xsessions to Sun boxes References: Message-ID: <3B0E8006.522C03B7@uswest.net> "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" wrote: > > Exceed and Reflections are windows Xservers. I think what you want to try > is Xnext -geometry 800x600 -query sunbox Xnext?? I thought that was a X server for OPENSTEP/NeXT platforms. -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From zibby at ringworld.org Fri May 25 10:58:18 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xsessions to Sun boxes In-Reply-To: <3B0E8006.522C03B7@uswest.net> Message-ID: Whoops, I ment Xnest! :) | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From dutchman at uswest.net Fri May 25 11:06:54 2001 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xsessions to Sun boxes References: Message-ID: <3B0E831E.96D7CDC8@uswest.net> "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" wrote: > > Whoops, I ment Xnest! :) What is the difference between running Xnest, enabling X forwarding through ssh, or using XDMCP? -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From zibby at ringworld.org Fri May 25 11:24:06 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xsessions to Sun boxes In-Reply-To: <3B0E831E.96D7CDC8@uswest.net> Message-ID: > What is the difference between running Xnest, enabling X forwarding > through ssh, or using XDMCP? Xnest will create a nested Xserver. It's a full fleged Xserver, except that it is nested in your current session. It appears as a managed window, so it's like using VNC. Basically, you'll have a desktop inside a window. X forwarding with ssh (or forwarding using the DISPLAY enviorment variable) will cause only the x clients (programs) to display. The clients will be managed by your local window manage. XDMCP is starting a new Xserver with the -query option. (Pretty much the same as using Xnest, except it will be on a new VC. Hopefully that clears things for you a bit...if not...I may have to break out screen shots. :) | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | On Fri, 25 May 2001, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" wrote: > > > > Whoops, I ment Xnest! :) > > > -- > Perry Hoekstra > E-Commerce Architect > Talent Software Services > perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From dutchman at uswest.net Fri May 25 11:54:06 2001 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xsessions to Sun boxes References: Message-ID: <3B0E8E2E.7260A2D9@uswest.net> "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" wrote: > Xnest will create a nested Xserver. It's a full fleged Xserver, except > that it is nested in your current session. It appears as a managed window, > so it's like using VNC. Basically, you'll have a desktop inside a window. What does the sun box have to be running for Xnest to work, XDMCP? -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From zibby at ringworld.org Fri May 25 12:02:33 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xsessions to Sun boxes In-Reply-To: <3B0E8E2E.7260A2D9@uswest.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 May 2001, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > What does the sun box have to be running for Xnest to work, XDMCP? For the query command to work, yes. Otherwise you could start Xnest -geometry 800x600 :1 and set DISPLAY on the sunbox to linuxbox:1 then run your Xsession. You could do the same with ssh... | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From fertch at mninter.net Fri May 25 12:11:23 2001 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xsessions to Sun boxes References: Message-ID: <200105251725.MAA25125@gateway1.lawson.com> "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" wrote: > > Whoops, I ment Xnest! :) > > | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | > | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | > | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | > | His power apparently lies in his ability to | > | choose incompetent enemies. | > | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list Hmm. Okay, doesn't work. Get a file not found. I'm assuming this is within an Xterminal session? gotta do some research on this. Need to throw winblows away. From dopp at acm.cs.umn.edu Fri May 25 12:33:34 2001 From: dopp at acm.cs.umn.edu (dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xsessions to Sun boxes In-Reply-To: <200105251725.MAA25125@gateway1.lawson.com>; from fertch@mninter.net on Fri, May 25, 2001 at 12:11:23PM -0500 References: <200105251725.MAA25125@gateway1.lawson.com> Message-ID: <20010525123334.B22629@sorry.cs.umn.edu> Do you have the nested Xserver installed? If not, install Xnest.tgz. Gabe On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 12:11:23PM -0500, Shawn wrote: > "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" wrote: > > > > Whoops, I ment Xnest! :) > > > > | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | > > | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | > > | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | > > | His power apparently lies in his ability to | > > | choose incompetent enemies. | > > | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > Hmm. Okay, doesn't work. Get a file not found. I'm assuming this is > within an Xterminal session? gotta do some research on this. Need to > throw winblows away. > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gabe Turner | X-President, SGI Origin Systems Administrator, | Assoc. for Computing Machinery U of M Supercomputing Institute for | University of Minnesohta Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation | dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu "I like the same theengs you do: wax paper, boiled football leather, dog breath!!" - Commander Hoek (Ren) in "Space Madness" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tanner at real-time.com Fri May 25 12:39:00 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Volunteering, was: Computers anyone? In-Reply-To: <3B0E0EBB.803D8D37@haxxed.com>; from seg@haxxed.com on Fri, May 25, 2001 at 02:50:19AM -0500 References: <3B0E0EBB.803D8D37@haxxed.com> Message-ID: <20010525123900.K29366@real-time.com> Quoting Callum Lerwick (seg@haxxed.com): > Well, I've been playing with Postgresql and PHP, and am starting to > think myself a god. Bless me please! :-P > I could come up with something massively overcomplex > and overdesigned given some encouragement and a few weeks time... > Hmmm... Let me stand on my soap box (no not SOAP) for a couple paragraphs. At Real Time I encourage people to work on things they enjoy and contribute whatever they wish back to the community, BUT I always ask them to think about how their project could be used by another company or how we could turn it into something that can generate revenue (via support, installation, configuration, etc.) So, let me say this. How could this be used by another company? I've consulted at many company's that have computer graveyards, so there might be a "market" for this sort of thing. Is php the write language of implementation? I hate web-scripting languages (not a flame or flame-bait). Most because of the mixing of presentation (html) with business logic (the code). Make for a messy project that is hard to maintain and even HARDER for non-technical people to update the look-n-feel. I'm a champion of java and Enhydra, which is something I highly recommend people look at for web development. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From jspinti at dart.dartdist.com Fri May 25 12:39:26 2001 From: jspinti at dart.dartdist.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VMware express Message-ID: Just was at the VMware site and noticed that they now support the 2.4 kernel for VMware express (they have supported it for Workstation for about 2 weeks now). Thanks, James Spinti jspinti@dartdist.com 952-368-3278 x396 fax 952-368-3255 From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Fri May 25 13:25:37 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Volunteering, was: Computers anyone? Message-ID: >>> tanner@real-time.com 05/25/01 12:39PM >>> >Is php the write language of implementation? I hate web-scripting languages (not >a flame or flame-bait). Most because of the mixing of presentation (html) with >business logic (the code). Make for a messy project that is hard to maintain and >even HARDER for non-technical people to update the look-n-feel. ... >I'm a champion of java and Enhydra, which is something I highly recommend people >look at for web development. Bob, Messy projects are typically implemented in a web-scripting language because they are simple/easy, so you can get from A to B fast without too much planning (for better and much worse). I think php could be used for this project, and it could be "done right" through a judicious use of includes and php "classes" to separate presentation from logic. In other words, I don't think it is necessarily a web scripting language's fault that messy people (or people with _no_ time) choose it. That said, I have not used java (much) and Enhydra (at all) in my dabbling with web development and I would like to know what the benefits are. You are it's champion, please extol it's virtues... :-) Have a fabulous day, Troy From wilson at visi.com Fri May 25 13:40:14 2001 From: wilson at visi.com (Timothy Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Volunteering, was: Computers anyone? In-Reply-To: <20010525123900.K29366@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 May 2001, Bob Tanner wrote: > I'm a champion of java and Enhydra, which is something I highly recommend people > look at for web development. I'd say Zope is worth a look. (http://www.zope.org/) -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.org W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From jethro at freakzilla.com Fri May 25 13:41:57 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Volunteering, was: Computers anyone? In-Reply-To: <20010525123900.K29366@real-time.com> Message-ID: Hi, On Fri, 25 May 2001, Bob Tanner wrote: > I'm a champion of java and Enhydra, The thing with Java is, well, it works badly. Even on THAT os, it's still slower than dirt, and still sometimes Java applets don't work at all. Heck, even the Java stuff Sun shoves down peoples' throat doesn't always work perfectly. And Java under Linux is HORRIBLE. I've still not got it going decently in Mozilla, and Netscape sure doesn't need any help crashing... I'd pretty much stay away from Java for anything that's going to be viewed by a lot of Linux/UNIX people. -Yaron -- From zibby at ringworld.org Fri May 25 13:46:35 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xsessions to Sun boxes In-Reply-To: <20010525123334.B22629@sorry.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: apt-get install xnest for Debian. :) Not sure where Red Hat hides it. | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From dutchman at uswest.net Fri May 25 14:05:43 2001 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Volunteering, was: Computers anyone? References: Message-ID: <3B0EAD07.FA350F11@uswest.net> Yaron wrote: > > Hi, > > On Fri, 25 May 2001, Bob Tanner wrote: > > > I'm a champion of java and Enhydra, > > The thing with Java is, well, it works badly. Even on THAT os, it's still > slower than dirt, and still sometimes Java applets don't work at all. > Heck, even the Java stuff Sun shoves down peoples' throat doesn't always > work perfectly. > > And Java under Linux is HORRIBLE. I've still not got it going decently in > Mozilla, and Netscape sure doesn't need any help crashing... > > I'd pretty much stay away from Java for anything that's going to be viewed > by a lot of Linux/UNIX people. > On the subject of Java-based applets, I would agree. However, I would disagree on the subject of Java itself. Java ServerPages (JSP) offers a credible alternative to Web scripting. There is a lot of work being done on the creation of a JSP/Servlet framework, ie. Struts (see the jakarta.apache.org site). -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From dutchman at uswest.net Fri May 25 14:06:15 2001 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xsessions to Sun boxes References: Message-ID: <3B0EAD27.56838089@uswest.net> "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" wrote: > > apt-get install xnest for Debian. :) > > Not sure where Red Hat hides it. rpmfind.net -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From stauffer_james at yahoo.com Fri May 25 14:09:06 2001 From: stauffer_james at yahoo.com (James A. N. Stauffer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Volunteering, was: Computers anyone? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010525190906.35969.qmail@web11502.mail.yahoo.com> Not that I am biased (I am a Java Developer) but you could probably make a very nice site with only server-side Java (servlets and JSP) so that Lynx can use the site. --- Yaron wrote: > Hi, > > On Fri, 25 May 2001, Bob Tanner wrote: > > > I'm a champion of java and Enhydra, > > The thing with Java is, well, it works badly. Even on THAT os, it's still > slower than dirt, and still sometimes Java applets don't work at all. > Heck, even the Java stuff Sun shoves down peoples' throat doesn't always > work perfectly. > > And Java under Linux is HORRIBLE. I've still not got it going decently in > Mozilla, and Netscape sure doesn't need any help crashing... > > I'd pretty much stay away from Java for anything that's going to be > viewed > by a lot of Linux/UNIX people. > > -Yaron > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ===== = o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ _____=======_||___ o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | | Stauffer_James | .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | | @yahoo.com | >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|________________| _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o¬o¬o o¬o¬o` 'o¬o o¬o` __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From jesse_erdmann at securecomputing.com Fri May 25 14:13:29 2001 From: jesse_erdmann at securecomputing.com (Jesse Erdmann) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Volunteering, was: Computers anyone? References: Message-ID: <3B0EAED8.67D82C8@securecomputing.com> That may be true for applets and stuff running in browsers, but it seems fine for things like JSPs or other applications. I've had a few nits with it here, but for the most part it's great. Most of our problems were way down in the networking stuff. Yes, it's still slower than C, but while you shouldn't expect a Java app written for Windows to just up and run (maybe only a few minor issues here and there, and once you fix the Linux code you can usually take that code and run it on both Windows and Linux, not sure about Solaris) it's not nearly as bad as porting C. Yaron wrote: And Java under Linux is HORRIBLE. I've still not got it going decently in > Mozilla, and Netscape sure doesn't need any help crashing... > > I'd pretty much stay away from Java for anything that's going to be viewed > by a lot of Linux/UNIX people. > -- Jesse Erdmann Engineer Secure Computing Corp. From mglaser at mn.mediaone.net Fri May 25 14:24:41 2001 From: mglaser at mn.mediaone.net (Michael Glaser) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Volunteering, was: Computers anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <20010525123900.K29366@real-time.com> Message-ID: <200105251925.f4PJP1116652@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> On 25 May 01, at 13:41, Yaron wrote: > Hi, > > On Fri, 25 May 2001, Bob Tanner wrote: > > > I'm a champion of java and Enhydra, > > The thing with Java is, well, it works badly. Even on THAT os, it's still > slower than dirt, and still sometimes Java applets don't work at all. > Heck, even the Java stuff Sun shoves down peoples' throat doesn't always > work perfectly. I think Bob _may_ have been suggesting that the work be done with Java servlets or JSP. The client would not need to have a JVM running on their system to access the web pages. > And Java under Linux is HORRIBLE. I've still not got it going decently in > Mozilla, and Netscape sure doesn't need any help crashing... The Java code would run on the server. I have little practical Java coding experience, but I have been studying it since the start of the year. I just finished 'Java Web Application Development' this week. I would be very interested in helping to implement something in Java if someone with more experience would like to start something up. I have a little experience deploying Java apps with Tomcat, but I am not familiar with Enhydra. Mike From jethro at freakzilla.com Fri May 25 14:30:07 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Volunteering, was: Computers anyone? In-Reply-To: <3B0EAED8.67D82C8@securecomputing.com> Message-ID: Hey, To clarify (while there's still ONE person who didn't beat me up): Yes, Java on the serverside is fine. If your server's not a crappy SPARCclassic (: -Yaron -- From fertch at mninter.net Fri May 25 14:59:57 2001 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xsessions to Sun boxes References: Message-ID: <3B0EB9BD.C637D8B4@mninter.net> "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" wrote: > > apt-get install xnest for Debian. :) Debian? Debian?! Who's running Debian on this box? Certianly not me! I did pull the package down from Slack's website however. Now to get it installed. Shawn From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri May 25 15:10:58 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT SGI screen saver Message-ID: Hey, what was the screen saver that couldn't really be experienced except on an Indy? ElectroPaint? I now have an Indy on which to experience it, but can't remember the name. Thanks. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From stauffer_james at yahoo.com Fri May 25 15:18:20 2001 From: stauffer_james at yahoo.com (James A. N. Stauffer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] HP Pavilion N5250 700Mhz 128MB Message-ID: <20010525201820.7645.qmail@web11501.mail.yahoo.com> I friend of mine is looking at an HP Pavilion N5250 700Mhz 128MB for $867. Any comments on that model? (She would probably stick with the M$ Me, but I might be able to convince her to try Linux.) ===== = o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ _____=======_||___ o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | | Stauffer_James | .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | | @yahoo.com | >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|________________| _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o¬o¬o o¬o¬o` 'o¬o o¬o` __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From fertch at mninter.net Fri May 25 15:50:59 2001 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xsessions to Sun boxes References: Message-ID: <3B0EC5B3.E4B26FE0@mninter.net> "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" wrote: > > Exceed and Reflections are windows Xservers. I think what you want to try > is Xnext -geometry 800x600 -query sunbox > > This will start up a nested Xserver that will query sunbox. You'll have > you're sun desktop in a window on your Linux desktop.\ Okay, Xnest installed. When I run it, I get the error: Fatal server error: Server is already active for display 0 If this server is no longer running, remove /tmp/.X0-lock and start again. Any suggestions? This is from within Gnome Xterminal session. IS there a setting I need to change? Shawn From lxy at cloudnet.com Fri May 25 15:49:15 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] HP Pavilion N5250 700Mhz 128MB In-Reply-To: <20010525201820.7645.qmail@web11501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 May 2001, James A. N. Stauffer wrote: > I friend of mine is looking at an HP Pavilion N5250 700Mhz 128MB for $867. If I didn't build my own, an HP would be my choice for a good solid machine. For a chinsy machine, can't beat an E-machine though :-) -Brian From jethro at freakzilla.com Fri May 25 15:51:07 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT SGI screen saver In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, On Fri, 25 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > Hey, what was the screen saver that couldn't really be experienced except > on an Indy? ElectroPaint? I now have an Indy on which to experience it, > but can't remember the name. That's the name. I think it's in /usr/demos/bin/ep -Yaron -- From zibby at ringworld.org Fri May 25 15:52:07 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xsessions to Sun boxes In-Reply-To: <3B0EC5B3.E4B26FE0@mninter.net> Message-ID: Xnest --help You need to tell it to use a display number other than 0, which is your Xserver. Xnext -geometry 800x600 -query sunbox :1 should do it. | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From jethro at freakzilla.com Fri May 25 15:57:32 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT (as usual) SCSI enclosure Message-ID: Hey, Don't suppose any of you have an external SCSI HDD enclosure that'll take a 50-pin SCSI drive and has either SCSI2 or SCSI1 on the back?... I've got a 4.3 that can hold data fine, but can't be used to boot from for some reason... -Yaron -- From dopp at acm.cs.umn.edu Fri May 25 15:56:22 2001 From: dopp at acm.cs.umn.edu (dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xsessions to Sun boxes In-Reply-To: <3B0EC5B3.E4B26FE0@mninter.net>; from fertch@mninter.net on Fri, May 25, 2001 at 03:50:59PM -0500 References: <3B0EC5B3.E4B26FE0@mninter.net> Message-ID: <20010525155622.C22629@sorry.cs.umn.edu> You can't run two Xservers on display 0. You need to specify a different display. Try this Xnest -query sunbox :1 Or some variation thereof. Gabe On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 03:50:59PM -0500, Shawn wrote: > "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" wrote: > > > > Exceed and Reflections are windows Xservers. I think what you want to try > > is Xnext -geometry 800x600 -query sunbox > > > > This will start up a nested Xserver that will query sunbox. You'll have > > you're sun desktop in a window on your Linux desktop.\ > > > Okay, Xnest installed. When I run it, I get the error: > > Fatal server error: > Server is already active for display 0 > If this server is no longer running, remove /tmp/.X0-lock > and start again. > > > Any suggestions? This is from within Gnome Xterminal session. IS there > a setting I need to change? > > > Shawn > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gabe Turner | X-President, SGI Origin Systems Administrator, | Assoc. for Computing Machinery U of M Supercomputing Institute for | University of Minnesohta Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation | dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu "I like the same theengs you do: wax paper, boiled football leather, dog breath!!" - Commander Hoek (Ren) in "Space Madness" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From 3pound at iname.com Fri May 25 16:15:56 2001 From: 3pound at iname.com (Jay J) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] HP Pavilion N5250 700Mhz 128MB References: <20010525201820.7645.qmail@web11501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000901c0e55f$eb6b3760$ca02a8c0@j600> > I friend of mine is looking at an HP Pavilion N5250 700Mhz 128MB for $867. > Any comments on that model? (She would probably stick with the M$ Me, but > I might be able to convince her to try Linux.) (ahem, no wisecracks on the X-Mailer, it's my brand new ThinkPad) Yea, I have a comment -- stay as far away from it as you can. In general I like HP (printers ..) but their decision to compete in the "looks cool" and "small package" (think IMac) market is a mistake for the end-user. As far as I'm aware, you _might_ have 1 PCI slot open (3 total) and most likely you'd have 0. I know someone that has one, he was forced to buy a USB network card that dongles off the back, ugh. Solution? I researched for many hours and put together a (low budget) box recently: Asus A7V133 with audio, Duron 800, 128MB PC100 (non-ecc), Enlight 7237 ATX Case, WD 30GB Drive ATA100, Logitech "Cordless Freedom" Key/Mouse combo, 52X CD-ROM, Viewsonic 17" (model # ?), Nvidia TNT2 8MB Video .. something like that, around $850 two months ago. I bought most of it from mwave.com, General Nanosystems and CompUSA. Then, if you're clever (pricewatch.com) you can find Win98/ME and MS Office Suite 2000 in RETAIL BOX form for very cheap. Oh, BTW - I researched the some big box brands too. Dell -- unbelievably cheap, so cheap they're running 3-4 weeks (+ shipping) to get your box to you. Gateway, slightly more expensive (but with better components). If you can wait on Dell, and their salespeople don't hang up on you, they'll give you a similar box (minus the trusted brand names) with free software, 98+Office == ~$200, they include it for free. Personally, the free software bit seems criminal -- so you could* build your own to protest out of principle, and you get the bonus of selected brand names and possibly higher resale/trade value. -Jay J From HOEFFNER at dcmir.med.umn.edu Fri May 25 16:24:43 2001 From: HOEFFNER at dcmir.med.umn.edu (HOEFFNER@dcmir.med.umn.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SYSLOG Message-ID: <010525162443.20203442@dcmir.med.umn.edu> Hi Just wanted to say thanks to all who responded to my questions about what I thought was a USB/sound device conflict (That it wasn't shows how much i don't know!!). Since the USB port isn't needed (at least for now), I'm going to just disable the beast and be done with it. That'll probably come back to bite me big time, but it at least gets the problem dealt with. Anyway, thanks again! Ed Hoeffner 1-271 BSBE 312 Church St. SE Mpls, MN 55455 hoeffner@dcmir.med.umn.edu 612-625-2115 612-625-2163 fax From wilson at visi.com Fri May 25 16:42:37 2001 From: wilson at visi.com (Timothy Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] HP Pavilion N5250 700Mhz 128MB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 25 May 2001, Brian wrote: > On Fri, 25 May 2001, James A. N. Stauffer wrote: > > > I friend of mine is looking at an HP Pavilion N5250 700Mhz 128MB for $867. > > If I didn't build my own, an HP would be my choice for a good solid > machine. For a chinsy machine, can't beat an E-machine though :-) We've had very good luck with the HP Vectras at school. The Pavilions, however, are an entirely different matter. In my experience, they are complete crap. (Recent models may be different.) They are the "Presario" of HP. 'nuff said. :-) -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.org W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Fri May 25 16:49:44 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] HP Pavilion N5250 700Mhz 128MB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: /me concurs. We've recently switched from HP Vectras to Dell Dimensions. While we were using HP they always appeared to be a reasonable box. The Dells had a problem with the floppy chip and something else but mostly it's also reasonable. Of course, this is using the business machines. Not the Pavilion/Presario/Whatever that is marketed to home users. You'll do better by putting it together on your own. Josh ___SIG___ On Fri, 25 May 2001, Timothy Wilson wrote: > On Fri, 25 May 2001, Brian wrote: > > > On Fri, 25 May 2001, James A. N. Stauffer wrote: > > > > > I friend of mine is looking at an HP Pavilion N5250 700Mhz 128MB for $867. > > > > If I didn't build my own, an HP would be my choice for a good solid > > machine. For a chinsy machine, can't beat an E-machine though :-) > > We've had very good luck with the HP Vectras at school. The Pavilions, > however, are an entirely different matter. In my experience, they are > complete crap. (Recent models may be different.) They are the "Presario" of > HP. 'nuff said. :-) > > -Tim > > -- > Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: > Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.org > W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org > wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Fri May 25 16:53:27 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 7.2 .iso images available In-Reply-To: <20010522130049.3eb5f66d.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: /me picks up an old thread. I don't suppose the slack team ever figured out a way to make upgrades happen? I like slack but darned it if it isn't a pain to deal with upgrades. Josh ___SIG___ On Tue, 22 May 2001, Bill Layer wrote: > On Tue, 22 May 2001 12:54:37 -0500 > "Tom Hudak" wrote: > > > On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 06:07:10PM -0500, Bill Layer wrote: > > >You will also note: unlike the standard distribution, my first CD is > _not_ > > >bootable.. you will need to use the standard bootdisk/rootdisk method > of > > >starting the install process. > > > > > >P.S. Let me know if it works ;) > > I'll make some disc's that are bootable. I have the current tree, but I > never > > spent enough time to make the cd's. El Torito here we come. > > I would have, but I'm not exactly sure how the slackware bootable cd > handles the root filesystem... I know how to make a bootable cd (that > emulates a single floppy disk), but not the dual boot / root setup that > slack uses.. I'd be curious how you do that. > > > > -.bill.layer.- > > -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- > > -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From seg at haxxed.com Fri May 25 17:14:07 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Volunteering, was: Computers anyone? References: <3B0E0EBB.803D8D37@haxxed.com> <20010525123900.K29366@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B0ED92F.E774E08B@haxxed.com> > So, let me say this. > > How could this be used by another company? > > I've consulted at many company's that have computer graveyards, so there might be > a "market" for this sort of thing. Well, I tend to think in terms of "How could this be useful to *anybody*?" Even if just myself. ;) I do need to pay rent... > Is php the write language of implementation? I hate web-scripting languages (not > a flame or flame-bait). Most because of the mixing of presentation (html) with > business logic (the code). Make for a messy project that is hard to maintain and > even HARDER for non-technical people to update the look-n-feel. This is a problem I've noticed. You can't just load up a php into Dreamweaver or what have you and diddle with the layout because half the HTML within echo statements. Though I can think of a few ways to make it happen... > I'm a champion of java and Enhydra, which is something I highly recommend people > look at for web development. But that would require me learning Java... ;) The nice thing about PHP is I'm starting to get to the point where I can speak it in my sleep, a point where I haven't been in any language since GFA Basic on my Atari ST. God it feels good to not have to stop and look up the exact syntax for every other function... From austad at marketwatch.com Fri May 25 17:34:39 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 7.2 .iso images available Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280809@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Make sure your /home directory is on it's own partition, tar zcvf /home/moomonk/etc.tgz /etc, then reinstall without formatting /home. Use the stuff from your old /etc to rebuild any config files you may have changed. I've only tried doing an upgrade twice (once with Mandrake, once with RedHat). Trust me, you're better off reinstalling. > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Jore [mailto:moomonk@rogue.electricgod.net] > Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 4:53 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Slackware 7.2 .iso images available > > > /me picks up an old thread. I don't suppose the slack team > ever figured > out a way to make upgrades happen? I like slack but darned it > if it isn't > a pain to deal with upgrades. > > Josh > > ___SIG___ > > On Tue, 22 May 2001, Bill Layer wrote: > > > On Tue, 22 May 2001 12:54:37 -0500 > > "Tom Hudak" wrote: > > > > > On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 06:07:10PM -0500, Bill Layer wrote: > > > >You will also note: unlike the standard distribution, my > first CD is > > _not_ > > > >bootable.. you will need to use the standard > bootdisk/rootdisk method > > of > > > >starting the install process. > > > > > > > >P.S. Let me know if it works ;) > > > I'll make some disc's that are bootable. I have the > current tree, but I > > never > > > spent enough time to make the cd's. El Torito here we come. > > > > I would have, but I'm not exactly sure how the slackware bootable cd > > handles the root filesystem... I know how to make a > bootable cd (that > > emulates a single floppy disk), but not the dual boot / > root setup that > > slack uses.. I'd be curious how you do that. > > > > > > > > -.bill.layer.- > > > > -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know > aren't talking.- > > > > -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From blayer at qwest.net Fri May 25 17:34:13 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 7.2 .iso images available In-Reply-To: References: <20010522130049.3eb5f66d.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <20010525173413.01e6a964.blayer@qwest.net> On Fri, 25 May 2001 16:53:27 -0500 (CDT) "Joshua Jore" wrote: > /me picks up an old thread. I don't suppose the slack team ever figured > out a way to make upgrades happen? I like slack but darned it if it isn't > a pain to deal with upgrades. I think that is what 'autoslack' is for, but I've never used it... -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From mill1359 at tc.umn.edu Fri May 25 12:58:36 2001 From: mill1359 at tc.umn.edu (Scott MIller) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba and Cisco 675 Message-ID: <990813516.1682.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> I know this has been asked in the past but I haven't really found anything to help. I'm using a Cisco 675 router to connect to my ISP via PPP. I have it going into the uplink port on my hub for the other computers on the network (1 Linux, 2 Win98). The router is set up as the DHCP server and it applies an IP of 10.0.0.* to computers on the network. I'm having trouble getting Samba to work via this set up. I can see my linux box on the windows machine but when I try to access it, the message that it could not find that machine comes up. Has anyone run into this problem? Is there a different and/or better way I could set up my little LAN? Thanks in advance for any help. Scott Miller From aton at skyenet.net Fri May 25 19:17:20 2001 From: aton at skyenet.net (Aton) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linuxconf broken pipe with RH 7.1, & Kernel 2.4.4 Message-ID: <200105260013.f4Q0DcPF027519@pop.skyenet.net> Has anyone ran into this yet? I've setup 2 machines (one dual P3-866 on a VIA based board (Abit VP6) and another P4 1.4 on Intel chipset board (Asus P4T), I installed everything for RH 7.1, and I installed all the updates on Red Hat's page. That all works fine, but after I upgrade to Kernel 2.4.4, and install it, linuxconf will: (this is the text based version) 1) lock up going into certian menus, especially the network section 2) I can break from the lockup by hitting CTRL-C, but if I try to run linuxconf again, it tells me broken pipe, and the only way to fix that is to reboot. The lockup going into the network config is consistent. It happens every time. Thanks for any help on this, Aton From florin at iucha.net Fri May 25 21:39:41 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba and Cisco 675 In-Reply-To: <990813516.1682.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>; from mill1359@tc.umn.edu on Fri, May 25, 2001 at 12:58:36PM -0500 References: <990813516.1682.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20010525213940.B29810@beaver.iucha.org> On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 12:58:36PM -0500, Scott MIller wrote: > I know this has been asked in the past but I haven't really found > anything to help. > > I'm using a Cisco 675 router to connect to my ISP via PPP. I have it > going into the uplink port on my hub for the other computers on the > network (1 Linux, 2 Win98). The router is set up as the DHCP server and > it applies an IP of 10.0.0.* to computers on the network. > > I'm having trouble getting Samba to work via this set up. I can see my > linux box on the windows machine but when I try to access it, the > message that it could not find that machine comes up. > > Has anyone run into this problem? Is there a different and/or better > way I could set up my little LAN? > If it's not too much hassle, attach your smb.conf florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Fri May 25 23:16:59 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba and Cisco 675 Message-ID: >>> florin@iucha.net 05/25/01 09:39PM >>> >On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 12:58:36PM -0500, Scott MIller wrote: >> I know this has been asked in the past but I haven't really found >... >If it's not too much hassle, attach your smb.conf ...and version of Samba, and Linux distribution with kernel version, and Windows 98 version (first or second edition, patches), and whether you use smbpasswd for Samba or not, and if you have used the plaintext password registry modifcation from the Samba docs, and what is displayed by "ifconfig" on Linux and "winipcfg" on Windows. Whew! That's a lot of work! Good luck! :-) Troy From foeclan at winternet.com Fri May 25 23:21:59 2001 From: foeclan at winternet.com (Michael Vieths) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 7.2 .iso images available In-Reply-To: <20010525173413.01e6a964.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: Autoslack and protopkg are the 'in development' utilities for doing network and such upgrades of Slackware. They can be downloaded from: ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/unsupported/autoslack ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/unsupported/protopkg -- Michael Vieths Foeclan@Winternet.Com On Fri, 25 May 2001, Bill Layer wrote: > On Fri, 25 May 2001 16:53:27 -0500 (CDT) > "Joshua Jore" wrote: > > > /me picks up an old thread. I don't suppose the slack team ever figured > > out a way to make upgrades happen? I like slack but darned it if it > isn't > > a pain to deal with upgrades. > > I think that is what 'autoslack' is for, but I've never used it... > > -.bill.layer.- > > -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- > > -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From tanner at real-time.com Sat May 26 01:38:06 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] UML tools for linux Message-ID: <20010526013806.B30583@real-time.com> Anyone have any recommendations for UML tools for linux? I placed with Rational's UML tool (it's excellent) but Windows only. I'd like something under Linux. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From eohl at brocktune.com Fri May 25 21:59:56 2001 From: eohl at brocktune.com (Scott Miller) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba and Cisco 675 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <990845997.1304.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On 25 May 2001 23:16:59 -0500, Troy Johnson wrote: > >>> florin@iucha.net 05/25/01 09:39PM >>> > >On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 12:58:36PM -0500, Scott MIller wrote: > >> I know this has been asked in the past but I haven't really found > >... > >If it's not too much hassle, attach your smb.conf > > ...and version of Samba, and Linux distribution with kernel version, > and Windows 98 version (first or second edition, patches), and whether you > use smbpasswd for Samba or not, and if you have used the plaintext password > registry modifcation from the Samba docs, and what is displayed by "ifconfig" > on Linux and "winipcfg" on Windows. Whew! That's a lot of work! Good luck! :-) > > Troy > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > Okay here we go smb.conf (I'm just using something simple till I get this working) ------------ [global] workgroup = MYGROUP server string = Samba Server printcap name = /etc/printcap load printers = yes printing = lprng log file = /var/log/samba/%m.log max log size = 0 security = USER ssl CA certFile = /usr/share/ssl/certs/ca-bundle.crt dns proxy = no [homes] comment = Home Directories browseable = no writable = yes [printers] comment = All Printers path = /var/spool/samba browseable = no guest ok = no printable = yes ------------------------ Samba version: 2.0.7-36 Linux distro: Red Hat 7.1 kernel: 2.4.2-2 Windows version: Win98 SE (no additional patches) no smbpasswd, instead using plaintextpassword setup in Win registry ifconfig output: ---------------- eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:01:02:2D:0B:81 inet addr:10.0.0.2 Bcast:10.0.0.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:950 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:320 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:3 collisions:0 txqueuelen:100 Interrupt:10 Base address:0xd800 ---------------- winipcfg output (from one machine): --------------- IP: 10.0.0.4 Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0 Default Gateway: 10.0.0.1 I have the workgroup set up as MYGROUP --------------- The error I get from windows when I try to access my Linux box is: //Localhost is not accessible The blah blah blah...cannot be found...blah blah. Whew! Scott Miller From stauffer_james at yahoo.com Sat May 26 09:11:08 2001 From: stauffer_james at yahoo.com (James A. N. Stauffer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] HP Pavilion N5250 700Mhz 128MB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010526141108.89485.qmail@web11503.mail.yahoo.com> On Fri, 25 May 2001, James A. N. Stauffer wrote: > I friend of mine is looking at an HP Pavilion N5250 700Mhz 128MB for $867. It is a laptop. (It appears from the replies that a desktop was assumed.) ===== = o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ _____=======_||___ o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | | Stauffer_James | .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | | @yahoo.com | >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|________________| _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o¬o¬o o¬o¬o` 'o¬o o¬o` __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From florin at iucha.net Sat May 26 09:14:12 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba and Cisco 675 In-Reply-To: <990845997.1304.0.camel@localhost.localdomain>; from eohl@brocktune.com on Fri, May 25, 2001 at 09:59:56PM -0500 References: <990845997.1304.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20010526091412.A6528@beaver.iucha.org> On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 09:59:56PM -0500, Scott Miller wrote: > Okay here we go > > smb.conf (I'm just using something simple till I get this working) > ------------ > [global] > workgroup = MYGROUP > server string = Samba Server > printcap name = /etc/printcap > load printers = yes > printing = lprng > log file = /var/log/samba/%m.log > max log size = 0 > security = USER > ssl CA certFile = /usr/share/ssl/certs/ca-bundle.crt I haven't seen this ^^^^^ before. > dns proxy = no > > [homes] > comment = Home Directories > browseable = no > writable = yes > > [printers] > comment = All Printers > path = /var/spool/samba > browseable = no > guest ok = no > printable = yes > ------------------------ > > Samba version: 2.0.7-36 > Linux distro: Red Hat 7.1 > kernel: 2.4.2-2 > Windows version: Win98 SE (no additional patches) > no smbpasswd, instead using plaintextpassword setup in Win registry > > ifconfig output: > ---------------- > eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:01:02:2D:0B:81 > inet addr:10.0.0.2 Bcast:10.0.0.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 > UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 > RX packets:950 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 > TX packets:320 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:3 > collisions:0 txqueuelen:100 > Interrupt:10 Base address:0xd800 > ---------------- > winipcfg output (from one machine): > --------------- > IP: 10.0.0.4 > Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0 > Default Gateway: 10.0.0.1 > I have the workgroup set up as MYGROUP > --------------- > > The error I get from windows when I try to access my Linux box is: > > //Localhost is not accessible Windows likes \\ not // And I presume the Linux machine have a name that you put on Windows in $WINDOWSDIR\system32\etc\hosts > > The blah blah blah...cannot be found...blah blah. Can you ping it by name? florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From florin at iucha.net Sat May 26 09:15:57 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] UML tools for linux In-Reply-To: <20010526013806.B30583@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Sat, May 26, 2001 at 01:38:06AM -0500 References: <20010526013806.B30583@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010526091557.B6528@beaver.iucha.org> On Sat, May 26, 2001 at 01:38:06AM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote: > Anyone have any recommendations for UML tools for linux? > > I placed with Rational's UML tool (it's excellent) but Windows only. I'd like > something under Linux. You can try ARGO UML. http://argouml.tigris.org. It's in Java (read sloooowwwww) so it "runs everywhere". florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" From dutchman at uswest.net Sat May 26 10:19:33 2001 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] UML tools for linux References: <20010526013806.B30583@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B0FC985.4E8D867C@uswest.net> Bob Tanner wrote: > Anyone have any recommendations for UML tools for linux? > > I placed with Rational's UML tool (it's excellent) but Windows only. I'd like > something under Linux. TogetherJ - see www.togetherj.com The software requirements state: RedHat 6.2 or any other Linux distro with glibc 2.1 - http://www.togetherj.com/us/products/sysrequire.html#_Linux_systems -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Solutions perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Sat May 26 12:46:52 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slackware 7.2 .iso images available In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280809@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: Yep, that's about what I've always done. Backup /home, /etc and then just reinstall. I'll have to check out autopackage (or whatever it was called) later. Josh ___SIG___ On Fri, 25 May 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > Make sure your /home directory is on it's own partition, tar zcvf > /home/moomonk/etc.tgz /etc, then reinstall without formatting /home. Use > the stuff from your old /etc to rebuild any config files you may have > changed. > > I've only tried doing an upgrade twice (once with Mandrake, once with > RedHat). Trust me, you're better off reinstalling. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Joshua Jore [mailto:moomonk@rogue.electricgod.net] > > Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 4:53 PM > > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Slackware 7.2 .iso images available > > > > > > /me picks up an old thread. I don't suppose the slack team > > ever figured > > out a way to make upgrades happen? I like slack but darned it > > if it isn't > > a pain to deal with upgrades. > > > > Josh > > > > ___SIG___ > > > > On Tue, 22 May 2001, Bill Layer wrote: > > > > > On Tue, 22 May 2001 12:54:37 -0500 > > > "Tom Hudak" wrote: > > > > > > > On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 06:07:10PM -0500, Bill Layer wrote: > > > > >You will also note: unlike the standard distribution, my > > first CD is > > > _not_ > > > > >bootable.. you will need to use the standard > > bootdisk/rootdisk method > > > of > > > > >starting the install process. > > > > > > > > > >P.S. Let me know if it works ;) > > > > I'll make some disc's that are bootable. I have the > > current tree, but I > > > never > > > > spent enough time to make the cd's. El Torito here we come. > > > > > > I would have, but I'm not exactly sure how the slackware bootable cd > > > handles the root filesystem... I know how to make a > > bootable cd (that > > > emulates a single floppy disk), but not the dual boot / > > root setup that > > > slack uses.. I'd be curious how you do that. > > > > > > > > > > > > -.bill.layer.- > > > > > > -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know > > aren't talking.- > > > > > > -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jts at tc.umn.edu Sat May 26 15:50:27 2001 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] UML tools for linux In-Reply-To: <200105261701.f4QH1BK17818@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: On Sat, May 26, 2001 at 01:38:06AM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote: > Anyone have any recommendations for UML tools for linux? > > I placed with Rational's UML tool (it's excellent) but Windows only. > I'd like something under Linux. There's an interesting open-source tool/project on SourceForge called "Thorn": http://thorn.sourceforge.net/ http://www.xaan.com/ It's written in Java and is still under development, so there are some rough edges. Last time I tried it, Thorn was also somewhat Windows centric, in that there were backslashes hard-coded into directory paths, but this might not be too difficult to fix. Joel --- Member of the GNU/X/Apache/Perl/Samba/OpenSSH/Linux generation. From austad at marketwatch.com Sat May 26 18:44:55 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba and Cisco 675 Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628080C@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Comment out the ssl line, and change security from "USER" to "SHARE". And then explicitly share a directory, instead of using the [homes] section. If the works, start changing things one by one to the way you want it to figure out what's breaking it. Jay -----Original Message----- From: Florin Iucha [mailto:florin@iucha.net] Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2001 9:14 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Samba and Cisco 675 On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 09:59:56PM -0500, Scott Miller wrote: > Okay here we go > > smb.conf (I'm just using something simple till I get this working) > ------------ > [global] > workgroup = MYGROUP > server string = Samba Server > printcap name = /etc/printcap > load printers = yes > printing = lprng > log file = /var/log/samba/%m.log > max log size = 0 > security = USER > ssl CA certFile = /usr/share/ssl/certs/ca-bundle.crt I haven't seen this ^^^^^ before. > dns proxy = no > > [homes] > comment = Home Directories > browseable = no > writable = yes > > [printers] > comment = All Printers > path = /var/spool/samba > browseable = no > guest ok = no > printable = yes > ------------------------ > > Samba version: 2.0.7-36 > Linux distro: Red Hat 7.1 > kernel: 2.4.2-2 > Windows version: Win98 SE (no additional patches) > no smbpasswd, instead using plaintextpassword setup in Win registry > > ifconfig output: > ---------------- > eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:01:02:2D:0B:81 > inet addr:10.0.0.2 Bcast:10.0.0.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 > UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 > RX packets:950 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 > TX packets:320 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:3 > collisions:0 txqueuelen:100 > Interrupt:10 Base address:0xd800 > ---------------- > winipcfg output (from one machine): > --------------- > IP: 10.0.0.4 > Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0 > Default Gateway: 10.0.0.1 > I have the workgroup set up as MYGROUP > --------------- > > The error I get from windows when I try to access my Linux box is: > > //Localhost is not accessible Windows likes \\ not // And I presume the Linux machine have a name that you put on Windows in $WINDOWSDIR\system32\etc\hosts > > The blah blah blah...cannot be found...blah blah. Can you ping it by name? florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scanman at mninter.net Sat May 26 18:52:19 2001 From: scanman at mninter.net (ScanMan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Computers anyone? References: Message-ID: <3B1041B3.5060609@mninter.net> I would buy the voodoo 2 seperate... don't know if you're willing to take it apart. Colin Kilbane wrote: >I have my old celeron 333a back from my brother, 128megs, 8gigs hd, AGP >video with a vodoo2(my pal has another so you can run them in parralel), >3con pci netowork card, soundblaster, CD rom, monitor, full tower case >and so on. It should be a nice linux system or duel boot. I would like at >least 300 or best offer. > >ps for a bit more I have scsi, and a magneto optical drive with 7 disks. > >Colin Kilbane > >_______________________________________________ >tclug-list mailing list >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From austad at marketwatch.com Sat May 26 19:19:24 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DAO-RAW mode cd burning program Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628080F@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Does anyone know of a CD ripping/burning program for linux that supports DAO-RAW mode like CloneCD for windows? Jay From jpschewe at mtu.net Sat May 26 19:57:16 2001 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] UML tools for linux In-Reply-To: Joel T Schneider's message of "Sat, 26 May 2001 15:50:27 -0500 (CDT)" References: Message-ID: Joel T Schneider writes: > On Sat, May 26, 2001 at 01:38:06AM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote: > > Anyone have any recommendations for UML tools for linux? > > > > I placed with Rational's UML tool (it's excellent) but Windows only. > > I'd like something under Linux. > > There's an interesting open-source tool/project on SourceForge called > "Thorn": > > http://thorn.sourceforge.net/ > http://www.xaan.com/ > > It's written in Java and is still under development, so there are > some rough edges. Last time I tried it, Thorn was also somewhat > Windows centric, in that there were backslashes hard-coded into > directory paths, but this might not be too difficult to fix. There's also dome, http://www.htc.honeywell.com/dome. -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Sun May 27 00:29:12 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DAO-RAW mode cd burning program Message-ID: There is supposed to be something called "cdrdao". It is referenced in the CD-Writing HOWTO but I cannot find it (I haven't been looking long though). I am also looking for "mkvcdfs" and "mkhybrid", but one thing at a time I suppose. I might have found it tonight but I got sick of the rats nest of cables beneath my desk and so shutdown and unplugged everything and reorganized. I feel better now... :-) >>> austad@marketwatch.com 05/26/01 07:19PM >>> Does anyone know of a CD ripping/burning program for linux that supports DAO-RAW mode like CloneCD for windows? Jay _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From austad at marketwatch.com Sun May 27 00:35:22 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DAO-RAW mode cd burning program Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280811@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Basically, I want to make a copy of the Sims, but it has that damn copy protection thing where they insert bad blocks in the CD, so when you try to read it, you get an Input/Output error. I've tried: dd if=/dev/scd0 of=sims.iso cat /dev/scd0 > sims.iso And both give me i/o errors and die. Is there some way I can tell them to just keep reading and not die? What about putting the burning in some kind of mode where it just doesn't care? Annoying. -----Original Message----- From: Troy Johnson [mailto:Troy.A.Johnson@state.mn.us] Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 12:29 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] DAO-RAW mode cd burning program There is supposed to be something called "cdrdao". It is referenced in the CD-Writing HOWTO but I cannot find it (I haven't been looking long though). I am also looking for "mkvcdfs" and "mkhybrid", but one thing at a time I suppose. I might have found it tonight but I got sick of the rats nest of cables beneath my desk and so shutdown and unplugged everything and reorganized. I feel better now... :-) >>> austad@marketwatch.com 05/26/01 07:19PM >>> Does anyone know of a CD ripping/burning program for linux that supports DAO-RAW mode like CloneCD for windows? Jay _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Sun May 27 00:42:23 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba and Cisco 675 Message-ID: I agree with the "stripped down smb.conf and build it up a block at a time" troubleshooting method suggested by others, but I am curious: does the Linux box have a hostname other than "localhost"? If so, try inserting a "netbios name" directive in smb.conf and see if that makes any difference. Hmm... >>> eohl@brocktune.com 05/25/01 09:59PM >>> //Localhost is not accessible From austad at marketwatch.com Sun May 27 00:44:48 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DAO-RAW mode cd burning program Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280812@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> http://cdrdao.sourceforge.net/index.html -----Original Message----- From: Austad, Jay [mailto:austad@marketwatch.com] Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 12:35 AM To: 'tclug-list@mn-linux.org' Subject: RE: [TCLUG] DAO-RAW mode cd burning program Basically, I want to make a copy of the Sims, but it has that damn copy protection thing where they insert bad blocks in the CD, so when you try to read it, you get an Input/Output error. I've tried: dd if=/dev/scd0 of=sims.iso cat /dev/scd0 > sims.iso And both give me i/o errors and die. Is there some way I can tell them to just keep reading and not die? What about putting the burning in some kind of mode where it just doesn't care? Annoying. -----Original Message----- From: Troy Johnson [mailto:Troy.A.Johnson@state.mn.us] Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 12:29 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] DAO-RAW mode cd burning program There is supposed to be something called "cdrdao". It is referenced in the CD-Writing HOWTO but I cannot find it (I haven't been looking long though). I am also looking for "mkvcdfs" and "mkhybrid", but one thing at a time I suppose. I might have found it tonight but I got sick of the rats nest of cables beneath my desk and so shutdown and unplugged everything and reorganized. I feel better now... :-) >>> austad@marketwatch.com 05/26/01 07:19PM >>> Does anyone know of a CD ripping/burning program for linux that supports DAO-RAW mode like CloneCD for windows? Jay _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From austad at marketwatch.com Sun May 27 00:57:21 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Acer 12x IDE burner Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280813@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Best Buy has them for $120 with a $20 mail in rebate. I just bought one, and it works pretty good, especially for $100. However, when burning CD's, the CPU sat at 100%. I finally figured out that DMA wasn't enabled for the drive. Hdparm -d1 /dev/hdd would give a permission denied error. I had to recompile my kernel with Intel PIIXn IDE chipset tuning enabled and reboot for it to let me enable DMA on my drives. I also did hdparm -c1 to enable 32 bit I/O on the drives. Cpu sits at a happy 1-2% now when burning. And it roughly tripled performance on my IBM 30GB deskstar. I did read that if you have a Via chipset, that you should not enable DMA because of some problems, like major filesystem corruption. Maybe they fixed this in 2.4.4, I'm running 2.4.3 though. Jay From austad at marketwatch.com Sun May 27 03:20:43 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian install disks don't have the megaraid.o module Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280815@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> I'm trying to install Woody on a box with an AMI Megaraid card in it. That module (megaraid.o) doesn't come on the install disks for Woody. Any ideas on what to do to get it installed? Jay From Fitzroy at com.168.net Sun May 27 15:27:43 2001 From: Fitzroy at com.168.net (Fitzroy@com.168.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ¾i¥ÍÀÈ­» Àu½o¨I­» ¶}±Ò´¼¼z ¹w¨¾¯e¯f Time:PM 03:27:43 Message-ID: <200105270924.f4R9OlK01663@sprite.real-time.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010527/b622a670/attachment.html From austad at marketwatch.com Sun May 27 11:32:09 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] anyone have a used rackmount case? Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280816@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> If anyone has any old 4u or smaller rackmount cases they'd be willing to sell, please contact me. I need 2 of em. Thanks. Jay From austad at marketwatch.com Sun May 27 11:32:09 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] anyone have a used rackmount case? Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280816@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> If anyone has any old 4u or smaller rackmount cases they'd be willing to sell, please contact me. I need 2 of em. Thanks. Jay From jasonj at innominatus.com Sun May 27 11:52:05 2001 From: jasonj at innominatus.com (Jason J) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian install disks don't have the megaraid.o module References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280815@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <3B1130B5.DBDACC4A@innominatus.com> Use the compact disks to install. They come with a bunch of raid controllers compiled in. Thats what I had to use to install with a Mylex Acceleraid 170. ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/testing/main/disks-i386/current/images-1.44/compact/ "Austad, Jay" wrote: > I'm trying to install Woody on a box with an AMI Megaraid card in it. That > module (megaraid.o) doesn't come on the install disks for Woody. Any ideas > on what to do to get it installed? > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From austad at marketwatch.com Sun May 27 12:44:23 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian install disks don't have the megaraid.o module Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280817@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> The Ami megaraid isn't. I just grabbed the 2.2.19 kernel and compiled the module and stuck it on a floppy. That worked. Jay -----Original Message----- From: Jason J [mailto:jasonj@innominatus.com] Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 11:52 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] debian install disks don't have the megaraid.o module Use the compact disks to install. They come with a bunch of raid controllers compiled in. Thats what I had to use to install with a Mylex Acceleraid 170. ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/testing/main/disks-i386/current/images-1.4 4/compact/ "Austad, Jay" wrote: > I'm trying to install Woody on a box with an AMI Megaraid card in it. That > module (megaraid.o) doesn't come on the install disks for Woody. Any ideas > on what to do to get it installed? > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From austad at marketwatch.com Sun May 27 12:54:37 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian install disks don't have the megaraid.o module Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280818@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> However, now I'm having trouble with the network install. I'm trying to install the base system, and I get a "Couldn't download adduser" error, and it fails. I've tried using several different servers, but I get the same error with them all. What causes this? I can contact the servers just fine. -----Original Message----- From: Austad, Jay [mailto:austad@marketwatch.com] Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 12:44 PM To: 'tclug-list@mn-linux.org' Subject: RE: [TCLUG] debian install disks don't have the megaraid.o module The Ami megaraid isn't. I just grabbed the 2.2.19 kernel and compiled the module and stuck it on a floppy. That worked. Jay -----Original Message----- From: Jason J [mailto:jasonj@innominatus.com] Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 11:52 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] debian install disks don't have the megaraid.o module Use the compact disks to install. They come with a bunch of raid controllers compiled in. Thats what I had to use to install with a Mylex Acceleraid 170. ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/testing/main/disks-i386/current/images-1.4 4/compact/ "Austad, Jay" wrote: > I'm trying to install Woody on a box with an AMI Megaraid card in it. That > module (megaraid.o) doesn't come on the install disks for Woody. Any ideas > on what to do to get it installed? > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jpschewe at mtu.net Sun May 27 13:58:14 2001 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] hardware recommendation In-Reply-To: Simeon Johnston's message of "Wed, 23 May 2001 08:55:26 -0500" References: <3B0BC14C.D711784F@eetc.com> Message-ID: Simeon Johnston writes: > Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > > On 22 May 2001, Jon Schewe wrote: > > > > > I found a place I can get this tape drive from for $180, however it's got a > > > cracked loader tray that'll probably cost $200 to fix. > > > > Bummer. I'd look for a better one, unless it's some hella tape drive. > > I would look for something smaller then. A 7 tape autoloader seems to be kinda > overkill. > 20GB? Does that include OS or is that just storage capacity? If your OS goes > bad I would recomend reinstall instead of pulling it from backup. That's data. Most of it I can live without. Right now I've got most of what I absolutly need backed up on a 2/4GB drive. The rest would just be nice to have backed up in case of hardware failure. > I would seriously look at some other technologies. DLT is really nice and can > get 40-80 GB per tape depending on the drive. I personally use DLT and think > they are very nice. > They may be more expensive but they are more reliable than cassette like tapes > simply because of the design. I have no idea what the comparison is between > them on long term storage and shock resistance -- stuff like that -- but I have > used them for a couple of years and never had one go bad or get corrupted. > For something as small as that you could just get a CD-RW and pick and choose > what you want to backup. > > Short answer - Don't go for it man. Get a cheaper one that fits your needs > better. DLT does sound nice, what's the usual price range for a drive and a couple of tapes? > > > What do you all think of using tape vs hard drives for backup? > > > > Who uses hard drives? I'd put a smiley, but actually I want to know! > > I've heard of people using HD instead of Tape but not as the only backup. Just > as a primary backup with tape as a secondary long term storage. HD are less > reliable but much faster for restoring. I was thinking of the HD for backing up not quite as critical data, since it generally seems cheaper than tape drives of similar size. -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From zibby at ringworld.org Sun May 27 15:12:04 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian install disks don't have the megaraid.o module In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280818@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 May 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > However, now I'm having trouble with the network install. I'm trying to > install the base system, and I get a "Couldn't download adduser" error, and > it fails. I've tried using several different servers, but I get the same > error with them all. Usually this happens when the mirrors are syncing. Give it awile and try again later. Happens every now and then with sid and woody. | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | > > What causes this? I can contact the servers just fine. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Austad, Jay [mailto:austad@marketwatch.com] > Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 12:44 PM > To: 'tclug-list@mn-linux.org' > Subject: RE: [TCLUG] debian install disks don't have the megaraid.o module > > The Ami megaraid isn't. I just grabbed the 2.2.19 kernel and compiled the > module and stuck it on a floppy. That worked. > > Jay > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason J [mailto:jasonj@innominatus.com] > Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 11:52 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] debian install disks don't have the megaraid.o module > > Use the compact disks to install. They come with a bunch of raid controllers > compiled in. Thats what I had to use to install with a Mylex Acceleraid 170. > > ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/testing/main/disks-i386/current/images-1.4 > 4/compact/ > > > > > > > "Austad, Jay" wrote: > > > I'm trying to install Woody on a box with an AMI Megaraid card in it. > That > > module (megaraid.o) doesn't come on the install disks for Woody. Any > ideas > > on what to do to get it installed? > > > > Jay > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From austad at marketwatch.com Sun May 27 16:35:25 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian install disks don't have the megaraid.o module Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280819@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> >Usually this happens when the mirrors are syncing. Give it awile and try >again later. Happens every now and then with sid and woody. It's been happening all day, even from http.us.debian.org and ftp.debian.org. Aren't these two always the most updated servers? Jay From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sun May 27 16:50:57 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Coyotelinux Message-ID: Was it Tim Wilson that is very happy with coyote? I have been playing with it, but I have a fussy ne2000T+ that doesn't like to be recognized. The Coyote scripts are really nice, but either I don't know where to find the right doc, or they just don't exist so that I can start tracking this down in Coyote context. Any pointers on Coyote docs? -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From dd-b at dd-b.net Sun May 27 17:45:08 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Creating a Win backup; was: hardware recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Phil Mendelsohn writes: > On Fri, 25 May 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > > > On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 08:46:59AM -0700, AAAunderground wrote: > > > > The reasoning I follow is this. If we take the example of a record > > > > (as in LP, vinyl), a point in the outside moves faster relative to a > > > > point closer to the center. If hard drives were vinyl LPs, I would want > > > > > > That was the case with older drives. But definately all new drives have > > > a design built into them that allow the drive to spin at the same speed > > > thoughout the platter. Unfortunatly I can not think of the name of the > > > technology that allows this right now. It is the same thing that is used > > > in cdroms for the same purpose. So to answer the question , no it > > > doesn't matter on a performance or accesibility level where you store > > > crucial files. > > No, I don't believe that's correct. Linear track speed varies because > rotational speed is constant on HDs. A 7200rpm drive isn't 6000-8200, it > stays put. > > The first time I ran into variable speed was when Apple put it on the > original Mac 3.5 floppy, I think. One of the reasons that hard-drives don't use variable speed is it's too slow to change the rotational speed of the platters. Compared to how fast the access arm can seek. It'd slow things down too much. -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From dd-b at dd-b.net Sun May 27 17:47:12 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Volunteering, was: Computers anyone? In-Reply-To: <20010525123900.K29366@real-time.com> References: <3B0E0EBB.803D8D37@haxxed.com> <20010525123900.K29366@real-time.com> Message-ID: Bob Tanner writes: > Is php the write language of implementation? I hate web-scripting > languages (not a flame or flame-bait). Not flame-bait? NOT FLAME-BAIT?????!? Oh, all right then. -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From dd-b at dd-b.net Sun May 27 17:48:38 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Volunteering, was: Computers anyone? In-Reply-To: <3B0EAED8.67D82C8@securecomputing.com> References: <3B0EAED8.67D82C8@securecomputing.com> Message-ID: Jesse Erdmann writes: > That may be true for applets and stuff running in browsers, but it seems > fine for things like JSPs or other applications. I've had a few nits > with it here, but for the most part it's great. Most of our problems > were way down in the networking stuff. > > Yes, it's still slower than C, but while you shouldn't expect a Java app > written for Windows to just up and run (maybe only a few minor issues > here and there, and once you fix the Linux code you can usually take > that code and run it on both Windows and Linux, not sure about Solaris) > it's not nearly as bad as porting C. What's servlet performance like? As you say, not relative to C; how about relative to Perl, or PHP? Or Cold Fusion? Comparing the two on the same platform of course. -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From dd-b at dd-b.net Sun May 27 17:59:13 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba and Cisco 675 In-Reply-To: <990813516.1682.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <990813516.1682.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: "Scott MIller" writes: > I know this has been asked in the past but I haven't really found > anything to help. > > I'm using a Cisco 675 router to connect to my ISP via PPP. I have it > going into the uplink port on my hub for the other computers on the > network (1 Linux, 2 Win98). The router is set up as the DHCP server and > it applies an IP of 10.0.0.* to computers on the network. > > I'm having trouble getting Samba to work via this set up. I can see my > linux box on the windows machine but when I try to access it, the > message that it could not find that machine comes up. I'm running something very like that. Samba 2.0.7, redhat 6.2-derived servers, Windows 98 clients. I had a *lot* of fiddling to get everything to see everything else, and I was never sure what had been wrong and what fixed it, but it works now (two different Linux servers serving disk shares accessed by the windows boxes, plus some windows boxes sharing as well). I'm not asking Samba to be PDC, in fact nothing is being PDC. Thus I'm using share-level access control. I had to play quite a lot with default user settings and SMBusers and SMBpaswd files. As I say, I'm not really sure I understand how and why it works now or how and why it didn't before. -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From tanner at real-time.com Sun May 27 18:37:16 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Servlets, php, cold-fusion [Was Volunteering, was: Computers anyone?] In-Reply-To: ; from dd-b@dd-b.net on Sun, May 27, 2001 at 05:48:38PM -0500 References: <3B0EAED8.67D82C8@securecomputing.com> Message-ID: <20010527183716.B27707@real-time.com> Quoting David Dyer-Bennet (dd-b@dd-b.net): > What's servlet performance like? As you say, not relative to C; how > about relative to Perl, or PHP? Or Cold Fusion? Comparing the two on > the same platform of course. For heavily hit sites servlets out perform perl. Especially when it comes to memory and cpu usage. Because all of the servlet containers I have used, load just 1 copy of the servlet and it's run as a multi-threaded application. On a lightly used site, servlets are memory hogs and perl might be better choice. Here are some real world (production server) numbers of a site we are in the progress of moving from perl to servlets. Using tomcat 3.2 and Sun's JDK 1.3.0_32. The JVM takes 36.6Mb of core that is with all servlets loaded and started at run time. This site is heavily dynamic and typically takes 1 million servlet requests a month. Using perl-5.00503, on RedHat 6.2, each perl request needed to fork/exec the perl interpreter, which takes 8Mb of core. If you get 5 simultaneous requests, you are already over the core size of ALL the servlets. Remember this is just one cgi and the site has hundreds. There where many times when the box would thrash the drives because of all the perl interpreters chewing up core. Yes, mod_perl can help here, but servlets still scale better. Because all(?) of the servlet containers allow you to specific the VM's memory usage and stack size you can actually keep resource utilization in check. I do not have any comparsion data on php, but I think it scales, look at sourceforge. Cold fusion is mostly windows based, so I have not touched it. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From wilson at visi.com Sun May 27 20:06:51 2001 From: wilson at visi.com (Timothy Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Coyotelinux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 27 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > Was it Tim Wilson that is very happy with coyote? I have been playing > with it, but I have a fussy ne2000T+ that doesn't like to be > recognized. Hey Phil, I've had very good luck with Coyote. I've always used 3C509B NICs in the past. They work very well. There's a pretty good message board at http://www.coyotelinux.com/phorum/ that has been pretty helpful for me in the past. -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.org W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sun May 27 20:25:17 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Coyotelinux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 27 May 2001, Timothy Wilson wrote: > I've had very good luck with Coyote. I've always used 3C509B NICs in the > past. They work very well. There's a pretty good message board at > http://www.coyotelinux.com/phorum/ that has been pretty helpful for me in > the past. Thanks, Tim. I've peeked at that, but guess I need to look a little further. How have you wrangled multiple 3c509's into coyote? I keep getting "invalid module parameter". I've got it at 0x320, IRQ 11. I've tried telling the makefloppy script both 0x320 and 320 (I looked, and it seems the perl tries to figure out if it needs to append it for you.) I actually found the ne2000. Trouble was it and the 3c509 were sharing addresses and interrupts. I discovered Donald Becker's cool little setup programs, though! Moved the 3c509 to new I/O and interrupt, no sweat. Also, it appears that CESDIS is no longer, but all of Becker's stuff can be had at his new company, www.scyld.com. Maybe old news to some, but new to me. Thanks, Phil -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From austad at marketwatch.com Sun May 27 20:29:04 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Coyotelinux Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628081A@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> You might also try Astaro (http://www.astaro.com). It's free for non-commercial use, uses kernel 2.4 (coyote is still 2.2 last I checked) so you have stateful firewalling, comes with MRTG, and some intrusion detection tools. The ISO is 50MB, and they say you need a 1.5GB drive to install it on. So it's definitely bigger than coyote, but it has many more features. Jay -----Original Message----- From: Phil Mendelsohn [mailto:mend0070@tc.umn.edu] Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 8:25 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Coyotelinux On Sun, 27 May 2001, Timothy Wilson wrote: > I've had very good luck with Coyote. I've always used 3C509B NICs in the > past. They work very well. There's a pretty good message board at > http://www.coyotelinux.com/phorum/ that has been pretty helpful for me in > the past. Thanks, Tim. I've peeked at that, but guess I need to look a little further. How have you wrangled multiple 3c509's into coyote? I keep getting "invalid module parameter". I've got it at 0x320, IRQ 11. I've tried telling the makefloppy script both 0x320 and 320 (I looked, and it seems the perl tries to figure out if it needs to append it for you.) I actually found the ne2000. Trouble was it and the 3c509 were sharing addresses and interrupts. I discovered Donald Becker's cool little setup programs, though! Moved the 3c509 to new I/O and interrupt, no sweat. Also, it appears that CESDIS is no longer, but all of Becker's stuff can be had at his new company, www.scyld.com. Maybe old news to some, but new to me. Thanks, Phil -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sun May 27 20:33:42 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Coyotelinux In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628081A@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 May 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > You might also try Astaro (http://www.astaro.com). It's free for > non-commercial use, uses kernel 2.4 (coyote is still 2.2 last I checked) so > you have stateful firewalling, comes with MRTG, and some intrusion detection > tools. The ISO is 50MB, and they say you need a 1.5GB drive to install it > on. So it's definitely bigger than coyote, but it has many more features. Thanks for the tip. I don't think I'm going to change horses in midstream, since I've already pulled the HD out of the box! Actually, for what it's worth, I'm reading the phorum, and the 1.29 release of coyote (that came out Fri) seems to be giving people a little trouble. Now I know it's not my card, I'll go back to 1.28 and see if that helps the way it won't. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From pc451 at yahoo.com Sun May 27 20:42:49 2001 From: pc451 at yahoo.com (Peter Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Via chipset, was Re: Acer 12x IDE burner In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280813@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20010528014249.73544.qmail@web11105.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Austad, Jay" wrote: > I did read that if you have a Via chipset, that you should not enable > DMA > because of some problems, like major filesystem corruption. Maybe > they > fixed this in 2.4.4, I'm running 2.4.3 though. I contacted Via's tech support and found out that they have a driver to fix this bug. (It's a glitch in the KT133A chipset--the southbridge, to be specific.) If you have a motherboard with this chipset, you may wish to consider downloading the 4in1 4.31 drivers from http://www.via.com.tw/download/drivers/4in1431v.zip :Peter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From dd-b at dd-b.net Sun May 27 21:51:55 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Servlets, php, cold-fusion [Was Volunteering, was: Computers anyone?] In-Reply-To: <20010527183716.B27707@real-time.com> References: <3B0EAED8.67D82C8@securecomputing.com> <20010527183716.B27707@real-time.com> Message-ID: Bob Tanner writes: > Quoting David Dyer-Bennet (dd-b@dd-b.net): > > What's servlet performance like? As you say, not relative to C; how > > about relative to Perl, or PHP? Or Cold Fusion? Comparing the two on > > the same platform of course. > > For heavily hit sites servlets out perform perl. Especially when it comes to > memory and cpu usage. Because all of the servlet containers I have used, load > just 1 copy of the servlet and it's run as a multi-threaded application. > > On a lightly used site, servlets are memory hogs and perl might be better > choice. Here are some real world (production server) numbers of a site we are in > the progress of moving from perl to servlets. Ooh, actual information.... > Using tomcat 3.2 and Sun's JDK 1.3.0_32. > > The JVM takes 36.6Mb of core that is with all servlets loaded and > started at run time. This site is heavily dynamic and typically > takes 1 million servlet requests a month. > > Using perl-5.00503, on RedHat 6.2, each perl request needed to fork/exec the > perl interpreter, which takes 8Mb of core. If you get 5 simultaneous requests, > you are already over the core size of ALL the servlets. Remember this is just > one cgi and the site has hundreds. Yep, that's of course the problem of Perl (and not PHP or Cold Fusion). > There where many times when the box would thrash the drives because of all the > perl interpreters chewing up core. > > Yes, mod_perl can help here, but servlets still scale better. That's not a total surprise. Um, were you thinking of the thing whose name I can't remember that lets you do perl embedded in the page (which I think depends on mod_perl), or is there something clever to do with mod_perl itself that helps directly? (Kinda ignorant about mod_perl obviously). > Because all(?) of the servlet containers allow you to specific the VM's memory > usage and stack size you can actually keep resource utilization in check. > > I do not have any comparsion data on php, but I think it scales, look at > sourceforge. So they say. > Cold fusion is mostly windows based, so I have not touched it. I used it quite a lot in a previous life, and it did remarkably well all things considered. For that paradigm, I mean. I note you talk almost entirely about memory use here; and obviously that's a strong reason you or anybody might be driven off Perl on a heavily-used dynamic site. Any feeling for other performance measures? -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From wilson at visi.com Sun May 27 21:52:26 2001 From: wilson at visi.com (Timothy Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Coyotelinux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 27 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > How have you wrangled multiple 3c509's into coyote? I keep getting > "invalid module parameter". I've got it at 0x320, IRQ 11. I've tried > telling the makefloppy script both 0x320 and 320 (I looked, and it seems > the perl tries to figure out if it needs to append it for you.) My strategy has been to use 3Com's 3c5x9cfg.exe utility (I think that's the name) to set the IRQ and I/O address manually for each card. When I installed Coyote the script indicated that for the 3C509 I shouldn't enter the IRQ and I/O address in the Coyote configuration. I just worked. -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.org W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From scanman at mninter.net Sun May 27 21:59:04 2001 From: scanman at mninter.net (ScanMan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Volunteering, was: Computers anyone? References: <3B0E0EBB.803D8D37@haxxed.com> <20010525123900.K29366@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B11BEF8.4050301@mninter.net> How would I go about starting this trade web page? Will someone give me an account on mn-linux.org? From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sun May 27 22:00:51 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Coyotelinux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 27 May 2001, Timothy Wilson wrote: > My strategy has been to use 3Com's 3c5x9cfg.exe utility (I think that's the > name) to set the IRQ and I/O address manually for each card. When I > installed Coyote the script indicated that for the 3C509 I shouldn't enter > the IRQ and I/O address in the Coyote configuration. I just worked. I've done the same, only using the Becker C programs. But it does say to enter IRQ and IO if it's not a PCI card. Mine's not. Are yours? -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From wilson at visi.com Sun May 27 22:14:06 2001 From: wilson at visi.com (Timothy Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Coyotelinux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 27 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > I've done the same, only using the Becker C programs. But it does say to > enter IRQ and IO if it's not a PCI card. Mine's not. Are yours? No, I've got an old 3C509B ISA card. I read somewhere (don't remember where) that you should enter the IRQ and IO for a 3C509. I never entered them, and it worked for me. :-) -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.org W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sun May 27 22:14:20 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Coyotelinux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK -- done deal. I got both cards going -- thanks for all the help gang. Now to configure... -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sun May 27 22:16:50 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Coyotelinux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 27 May 2001, Timothy Wilson wrote: > On Sun, 27 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > > I've done the same, only using the Becker C programs. But it does say to > > enter IRQ and IO if it's not a PCI card. Mine's not. Are yours? > > No, I've got an old 3C509B ISA card. I read somewhere (don't remember > where) that you should enter the IRQ and IO for a 3C509. I never entered > them, and it worked for me. :-) Yeah, that's what did it -- thanks for the tip! -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From tanner at real-time.com Sun May 27 22:28:29 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Servlets, php, cold-fusion [Was Volunteering, was: Computers anyone?] In-Reply-To: ; from dd-b@dd-b.net on Sun, May 27, 2001 at 09:51:55PM -0500 References: <3B0EAED8.67D82C8@securecomputing.com> <20010527183716.B27707@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010527222829.E27707@real-time.com> Quoting David Dyer-Bennet (dd-b@dd-b.net): > > Yes, mod_perl can help here, but servlets still scale better. > > That's not a total surprise. Um, were you thinking of the thing whose > name I can't remember that lets you do perl embedded in the page > (which I think depends on mod_perl), or is there something clever to > do with mod_perl itself that helps directly? (Kinda ignorant about > mod_perl obviously). The Apache/Perl integration project brings together the full power of the Perl programming language and the Apache HTTP server. With mod_perl it is possible to write Apache modules entirely in Perl. In addition, the persistent interpreter embedded in the server avoids the overhead of starting an external interpreter and the penalty of Perl start-up time. http://perl.apache.org/ > I note you talk almost entirely about memory use here; and obviously > that's a strong reason you or anybody might be driven off Perl on a > heavily-used dynamic site. Any feeling for other performance > measures? Ok, soapbox time, this is not flamebait. It will probably show my ignorance on how far perl has come. Hopefully some perl mongers are here so they can set me right. When I was "into" perl, it was ver 4.x, so there probably lots of things that I _think_ perl can't do, or does badly that are now "fixed" in 5.5 or 5.6. Servlets are faster, especially when dealing with large database queries. In particular, objects that deal with lookup tables. Because servlets are persistent, you can at start up time perform one-time initialization routines. For instance, you DB table of the Countries. In this table is the full country name (United States of America), the ISO designation (US), optional short name (USA) and an application specific number. At start-up of the servlet container you can hit the DB and put resultSet into an efficient lookup object like a red-black tree or something a little more flexible like a hashtable. This is done just once, at boot time. Now access to this object are all done quickly from memory, because the servlet is persistent. Using perl, you have to hit the DB each time for this result (perl monger flame?). I know php has something similar, so sort of cache thing. Servlets "perform" better in an international community. While most Americans thing the Internet is "ours". Internet is global. One of our clients is an international organization in over 25 countries. Java's localization APIs make an international web site not only possible, but relatively easy. Java has native thread support with priorities. So servlets can "perform" nicely with each other more easily. One particular application I wrote has a "long" (60-120 seconds) processing cycle. The information is not time sensitive. So putting this request into a very low priority thread helps servlets scale. I don't think perl can do this (perl monger flame?), so ever perl cgi is give same priority. Servlets perform better with legacy systems and non-Unix based systems (ok, perl mongers are going to have to flame me on this). These are all things I could do under Java (easily) that I could not do under perl or was difficult to do under perl. Talking to MS SQL Server is no different then talking to MySQL or Postgres. It's all JDBC. Wanna talk XML, there is Xerces-J (yes, there is Xerces-perl too). Printing html from your browser not good enough? Converting the data from html into a pdf via FOP is no problem. Need to produce a fancy report with SVG (scalable vector graphics)? Grab Batik and you got everything you need. What to keep your DB object, Business Objects and Presentation (html) Object _TOTALLY_ separate so you can yank out the html and replace with wxml, wap or iDEN? Grab Enhydra and you got it made in the shade. Think working with the request/response model of web request is a step backwards? Grab Barracuda and change your web application into a Model2 Event Model machine (just like Swing). Is keeping your production, development and deployment servers in-sync a nightmare? Bundle all of your Java objects, images, and config files into a WAR (web archive) and just distribute 1 file for easy upgrades. I'll get off my soapbox now. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From tanner at real-time.com Sun May 27 22:30:20 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Volunteering, was: Computers anyone? In-Reply-To: <3B11BEF8.4050301@mninter.net>; from scanman@mninter.net on Sun, May 27, 2001 at 09:59:04PM -0500 References: <3B0E0EBB.803D8D37@haxxed.com> <20010525123900.K29366@real-time.com> <3B11BEF8.4050301@mninter.net> Message-ID: <20010527223020.F27707@real-time.com> Quoting ScanMan (scanman@mninter.net): > How would I go about starting this trade web page? Will someone give me > an account on mn-linux.org? Unless you are going to work on it all by yourself, how about a design? I think others, myself included, would like to see it. Also, other developers will need a roadmap to follow. Finally, I don't really know what it has to be ON the mn-linux.org web site. We can just link to it on your web server. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From a3alphatriona3 at yahoo.com Sun May 27 22:43:05 2001 From: a3alphatriona3 at yahoo.com (No Spam) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and pro-ns.net (Professional Networking Services, Inc.) Message-ID: <20010528034305.48565.qmail@web11104.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, all. I'm a Linux user w/ a really annoying problem with my ISP. pro-ns is my ISP. I can use a Minicom script to dial up and type in my username and password. After this, I've been manually Ctrl-A Q'ing out and startin pppd. This is getting really old. Chat doesn't work. Whenever I log on, I can connect but I can't get chat to find a login prompt. Apparently, PAP kicks in if I'm using chat. So I modified the chat script to connect only and let pppd take over. Then pppd interacts w/ the other server PAP-style and I have password / authentication problems. Below is a log of pppd's output, along with the contents of various files. THe thing that confuses me is that I've got the password correct and that I can log in properly using Minicom and pppd. Here's what happens: ... Serial connection established. Using interface ppp0 Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/modem sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 ] rcvd [LCP ConfAck id=0x1 ] rcvd [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 ] sent [LCP ConfAck id=0x1 ] sent [LCP EchoReq id=0x0 magic=0x0] sent [PAP AuthReq id=0x1 user="bubu" password=] rcvd [LCP EchoRep id=0x0 magic=0x0] rcvd [PAP AuthNak id=0x1 "!Error 20 Incorrect account or user ID.\r\n" 00 00] Remote message: !Error 20 Incorrect account or user ID.^M^J PAP authentication failed sent [LCP TermReq id=0x2 "Failed to authenticate ourselves to peer"] rcvd [LCP TermAck id=0x2 "Failed to authenticate ourselves to peer"] Connection terminated. Here's what I run to connect: /usr/sbin/pppd /dev/modem 115200 call pro-ns Here's what's in /etc/ppp/peers/pro-ns: debug connect 'chat -Evs -f /etc/ppp/pro-ns.chat -T 612-252-2003' kdebug 7 name bubu noauth nodetach nomagic Here's what's in /etc/ppp/pap-secrets (slightly modified): bubu * passwd * I didn't actually type "passwd"... It's my actual password, no punctuation or anything. I've also tried that w/ no 4th entry (bubu * passwd) with the same result. And, finally, here's /etc/ppp/options: crtscts defaultroute hide-password ktune lcp-echo-failure 4 lcp-echo-interval 30 lock modem usepeerdns There's an /etc/ppp/options.dist, but no other options* files. What the devil is going on? This problem has annoyed me for a long, long time. :( Thanks in advance for your help. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From bubu at pro-ns.net Sun May 27 23:33:37 2001 From: bubu at pro-ns.net (bubu@pro-ns.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help w/ pppd and pro-ns (Professional Networking Services, Inc.) Message-ID: <200105280352.f4S3qUA15758@user2.pro-ns.net> Hello, all. I'm a Linux user w/ a really annoying problem with my ISP. pro-ns is my ISP. I can use a Minicom script to dial up and type in my username and password. After this, I've been manually Ctrl-A Q'ing out and startin pppd. This is getting really old. Chat doesn't work. Whenever I log on, I can connect but I can't get chat to find a login prompt. Apparently, PAP kicks in if I'm using chat. So I modified the chat script to connect only and let pppd take over. Then pppd interacts w/ the other server PAP-style and I have password / authentication problems. Below is a log of pppd's output, along with the contents of various files. THe thing that confuses me is that I've got the password correct and that I can log in properly using Minicom and pppd. Here's what happens: .. Serial connection established. Using interface ppp0 Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/modem sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 ] rcvd [LCP ConfAck id=0x1 ] rcvd [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 ] sent [LCP ConfAck id=0x1 ] sent [LCP EchoReq id=0x0 magic=0x0] sent [PAP AuthReq id=0x1 user="bubu" password=] rcvd [LCP EchoRep id=0x0 magic=0x0] rcvd [PAP AuthNak id=0x1 "!Error 20 Incorrect account or user ID.\r\n" 00 00] Remote message: !Error 20 Incorrect account or user ID.^M^J PAP authentication failed sent [LCP TermReq id=0x2 "Failed to authenticate ourselves to peer"] rcvd [LCP TermAck id=0x2 "Failed to authenticate ourselves to peer"] Connection terminated. Here's what I run to connect: /usr/sbin/pppd /dev/modem 115200 call pro-ns Here's what's in /etc/ppp/peers/pro-ns: debug connect 'chat -Evs -f /etc/ppp/pro-ns.chat -T 612-252-2003' kdebug 7 name bubu noauth nodetach nomagic Here's what's in /etc/ppp/pap-secrets (slightly modified): bubu * passwd * I didn't actually type "passwd"... It's my actual password, no punctuation or anything. I've also tried that w/ no 4th entry (bubu * passwd) with the same result. And, finally, here's /etc/ppp/options: crtscts defaultroute hide-password ktune lcp-echo-failure 4 lcp-echo-interval 30 lock modem usepeerdns There's an /etc/ppp/options.dist, but no other options* files. What the devil is going on? This problem has annoyed me for a long, long time. :( Thanks in advance for your help. From tanner at real-time.com Sun May 27 23:03:21 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help w/ pppd and pro-ns (Professional Networking Services, Inc.) In-Reply-To: <200105280352.f4S3qUA15758@user2.pro-ns.net>; from bubu@pro-ns.net on Sun, May 27, 2001 at 10:33:37PM -0600 References: <200105280352.f4S3qUA15758@user2.pro-ns.net> Message-ID: <20010527230321.H27707@real-time.com> Quoting bubu@pro-ns.net (bubu@pro-ns.net): > Hello, all. I'm a Linux user w/ a really annoying problem with my ISP. What are you connecting into over there? Ascend/Lucent gear? Cisco? Might be that they are using MS-CHAP, cuz they are windows friendly isp. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From dd-b at dd-b.net Sun May 27 23:38:44 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Servlets, php, cold-fusion [Was Volunteering, was: Computers anyone?] In-Reply-To: <20010527222829.E27707@real-time.com> References: <3B0EAED8.67D82C8@securecomputing.com> <20010527183716.B27707@real-time.com> <20010527222829.E27707@real-time.com> Message-ID: Bob Tanner writes: > Quoting David Dyer-Bennet (dd-b@dd-b.net): > > I note you talk almost entirely about memory use here; and obviously > > that's a strong reason you or anybody might be driven off Perl on a > > heavily-used dynamic site. Any feeling for other performance > > measures? > > Ok, soapbox time, this is not flamebait. It will probably show my ignorance on > how far perl has come. Hopefully some perl mongers are here so they can set me > right. > > When I was "into" perl, it was ver 4.x, so there probably lots of things that I > _think_ perl can't do, or does badly that are now "fixed" in 5.5 or 5.6. > > Servlets are faster, especially when dealing with large database queries. In > particular, objects that deal with lookup tables. Because servlets are > persistent, you can at start up time perform one-time initialization routines. > For instance, you DB table of the Countries. In this table is the full country > name (United States of America), the ISO designation (US), optional short name > (USA) and an application specific number. At start-up of the servlet container > you can hit the DB and put resultSet into an efficient lookup object like a > red-black tree or something a little more flexible like a hashtable. > > This is done just once, at boot time. Now access to this object are all done > quickly from memory, because the servlet is persistent. Using perl, you have to > hit the DB each time for this result (perl monger flame?). I know php has > something similar, so sort of cache thing. Cold fusion caches those queries automatically, I believe. > Java has native thread support with priorities. So servlets can > "perform" nicely with each other more easily. One particular > application I wrote has a "long" (60-120 seconds) processing > cycle. The information is not time sensitive. So putting this > request into a very low priority thread helps servlets scale. I > don't think perl can do this (perl monger flame?), so ever perl cgi > is give same priority. The perl CGI could set itself to a lower priority also ("nice"). > Servlets perform better with legacy systems and non-Unix based > systems (ok, perl mongers are going to have to flame me on > this). These are all things I could do under Java (easily) that I > could not do under perl or was difficult to do under perl. Perl and CGI in general have problems on Microsoft systems, where process startup is expensive rather than cheap, so servlets should perform better in that kind of environment. Is there anything important to the web (server side) other than NT and Unix, though? > Talking to MS SQL Server is no different then talking to MySQL or > Postgres. It's all JDBC. Perl does this fine through DBI. Another problem with CGI in general that you didn't mention, though, is that for some database servers it's actually expensive to establish the connection, and with a persistent system like servlets, php, or Cold Fusion those connections can be pooled / reused. (Mainframe DB2 through a middleware layer and ODBC, for example; sheesh!) A lot of the specific modules (capabilities) you mention are things that there's a perl object for these days. But any way you look at it, somebody else having already done the work is a big win! -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From seg at haxxed.com Mon May 28 01:36:44 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Volunteering, was: Computers anyone? References: <3B0E0EBB.803D8D37@haxxed.com> <20010525123900.K29366@real-time.com> <3B11BEF8.4050301@mninter.net> Message-ID: <3B11F1FC.F4AB1778@haxxed.com> ScanMan wrote: > > How would I go about starting this trade web page? Will someone give me > an account on mn-linux.org? I have plans to start developing something, errr, soon now. I'd be hosting it on my own server, at least for starters. Bah. I just need to get off my ass and start coding... Anyone have decent web design skills? With my current project I've been concentrating %100 on the functionality and nothing on the looks, so it looks like ass but it does near everything I want it to. It'd be nice to have someone who could put a pretty face on things for me... From austad at marketwatch.com Mon May 28 02:44:01 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] errors while fixating a CDR with an ATAPI burner Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628081B@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> When I burn a disc with my ATAPI burner, the burn goes just fine until the end where it fixates the disc. Then I get an Input/Output error which says Illegal SCSI Request. I read something about the scsi generic driver not emulating the scg devices as well as they should, and that's why I get the error. So what do I do? The discs I burn don't work because the TOC never gets written. Jay From austad at marketwatch.com Mon May 28 03:08:32 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] errors while fixating a CDR with an ATAPI burner Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628081C@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Doh, it was the media. I bought a spindle of 100 PNY CDR's at best buy for $20. You get what you pay for... I tried some Imation cdr's, and they work fine. -----Original Message----- From: Austad, Jay [mailto:austad@marketwatch.com] Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 2:44 AM To: 'tclug-list@mn-linux.org' Subject: [TCLUG] errors while fixating a CDR with an ATAPI burner When I burn a disc with my ATAPI burner, the burn goes just fine until the end where it fixates the disc. Then I get an Input/Output error which says Illegal SCSI Request. I read something about the scsi generic driver not emulating the scg devices as well as they should, and that's why I get the error. So what do I do? The discs I burn don't work because the TOC never gets written. Jay _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rsinland at gvtel.com Mon May 28 08:53:18 2001 From: rsinland at gvtel.com (Robert Sinland) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT SGI screen saver References: Message-ID: <3B12584E.BE18DADB@gvtel.com> Yaron wrote: > Hi, > > On Fri, 25 May 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > > Hey, what was the screen saver that couldn't really be experienced except > > on an Indy? ElectroPaint? I now have an Indy on which to experience it, > > but can't remember the name. > > That's the name. I think it's in /usr/demos/bin/ep > > -Yaron > Was that available on the Indigo as well? Doesn't seem to be loaded on mine in any case, and copies of the Irix OS are just plain out of sight. (unless you don't mind paying more for the OS then what your computer cost) On another semi-related topic, are there any books at _all_ on the SGI line of computers in general, or the idigo in particular? Did some searching on Amazon and came up with nada... Thanks RS From pc451 at yahoo.com Mon May 28 09:39:59 2001 From: pc451 at yahoo.com (Peter Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Volunteering, was: Computers anyone? In-Reply-To: <3B11F1FC.F4AB1778@haxxed.com> Message-ID: <20010528143959.1747.qmail@web11106.mail.yahoo.com> --- Callum Lerwick wrote: > Anyone have decent web design skills? With my current project I've > been > concentrating %100 on the functionality and nothing on the looks, so > it > looks like ass but it does near everything I want it to. It'd be nice > to > have someone who could put a pretty face on things for me... In my past life I was a web page designer; I've been out of the loop for two years, but I can write a mean page of HTML3.0 compliant script. Guess it wouldn't take much to brush up on what's happened in the last couple of years. So if no one else volunteers, I would be happy to do so. I probably won't be able to start for another week, however. (I still have one week of classes left.) :Peter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From esper at sherohman.org Mon May 28 10:12:22 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Servlets, php, cold-fusion [Was Volunteering, was: Computers anyone?] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010528101222.B15747@sherohman.org> On Sun, May 27, 2001 at 09:51:55PM -0500, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > Using perl-5.00503, on RedHat 6.2, each perl request needed to fork/exec the > > perl interpreter, which takes 8Mb of core. If you get 5 simultaneous requests, > > you are already over the core size of ALL the servlets. Remember this is just > > one cgi and the site has hundreds. > > Yep, that's of course the problem of Perl (and not PHP or Cold Fusion). Correction: Having to spawn external processes to handle requests is a problem of CGI. Apache has a FastCGI module (mod_fastcgi) which will cache CGI scripts to avoid this; I've never used CGI (fast or otherwise) so I can't say whether it allows the cached CGIs to share their environment or not. Apache also has mod_perl, which loads a single instance of the perl interpreter and any perl modules on startup, thus completely avoiding these sorts of problems. These may seem to be perl problems because perl has traditionally been (and still frequently is) used via CGI calls, but they're actually caused by CGI. A CGI program written in C or using a standalone Java interpreter would be just as bad. > That's not a total surprise. Um, were you thinking of the thing whose > name I can't remember that lets you do perl embedded in the page > (which I think depends on mod_perl), or is there something clever to > do with mod_perl itself that helps directly? (Kinda ignorant about > mod_perl obviously). Install mod_perl, write your perl code in a module-friendly fashion (IIRC, standard CGIs can be used as modules, but, again, I haven't done that, so I'm not sure), load your scripts as modules, and all will be Good. You're thinking of embedded perl, which I also haven't messed with, but, according to ORA's _Writing Apache Modules in Perl and C_, "Embperl and ePerl packages... build on mod_perl to create a Perl-like programming language embedded entirely within server-side includes." I would expect this to perform less well than straight mod_perl, both because of the SSI overhead and because the perl code would have to be recompiled (yes, perl uses something similar to Java's JIT compilation these days) for each request, where perl modules are compiled once at server startup. -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From esper at sherohman.org Mon May 28 11:12:01 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Servlets, php, cold-fusion [Was Volunteering, was: Computers anyone?] In-Reply-To: <20010527222829.E27707@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010528111201.C15747@sherohman.org> On Sun, May 27, 2001 at 10:28:29PM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote: > Ok, soapbox time, this is not flamebait. It will probably show my ignorance on > how far perl has come. Hopefully some perl mongers are here so they can set me > right. Guess that's me. I'll admit my biases up front: I've never touched Java or even looked at it aside from a bit of sample code in magazines here and there that used it insted of C. I regularly curse web sites that insist on using client-side JavaScript, but I've been told that Java and JavaScript are completely different things. I'm curious about PHP, but have never really bothered to look at it. From the descriptions I've heard, though, PHP sounds like a markup syntax on steroids rather than a real programming language. But I'm a big fan of perl and have done apache module programming in both C and perl, so I should be able to respond to some of your statements... > Servlets are faster, especially when dealing with large database queries. In > particular, objects that deal with lookup tables. Because servlets are > persistent, you can at start up time perform one-time initialization routines. Using mod_perl, you can create a startup script (using the PerlRequire or PerlModule directive) which will run at server startup, when the mod_perl environment is set up. Anything it does (like setting up DB connections or precaching data) is then inherited by all child processes. Also, individual perl modules are persistent within each child process. One of the things frequently stressed in the documentation I've seen on writing perl modules for apache is that you have to clean up after yourself, because the next request delegated to that child will have whatever environment you leave behind. It seems that many CGI programmers are in the habit of assuming that the world ends when their script does, so they don't bother closing files, etc. > Servlets "perform" better in an international community. While most Americans > thing the Internet is "ours". Internet is global. One of our clients is an > international organization in over 25 countries. Java's localization APIs make > an international web site not only possible, but relatively easy. Perl has support for the locale system and, from a quick look at the perllocale documentation, it appears to be pretty straightforward. Not knowing Java's relevant API, though, I can't compare the two meaningfully. > Java has native thread support with priorities. So servlets can "perform" nicely > with each other more easily. One particular application I wrote has a "long" > (60-120 seconds) processing cycle. The information is not time sensitive. So > putting this request into a very low priority thread helps servlets scale. I > don't think perl can do this (perl monger flame?), so ever perl cgi is give same > priority. IMO, you've got the wrong model here, whether you're using perl, Java, C, or anything else. Processing unrelated to the display of a web page shouldn't be running within the web server. Create a standalone program to do the background processing and spawn it, as a previous poster suggested, under nice(1). If you're really into threads, perl supports them through the Threads module, but, as always, using them complicates your resource handling and the 'what if this child gets another request while still processing the last one' case becomes more complex. IMO again, I've always thought threads are overrated and the time I spent writing apache modules for Win32 apache (which spawns handler threads instead of handler processes like the *nix version) has only reinforced that opinion. > Servlets perform better with legacy systems and non-Unix based systems (ok, perl > mongers are going to have to flame me on this). Bob, you're an utterly clueless moron and have no idea about what you're talking about - or anything else, for that matter! How's that? Anyhow, I've heard that perl is currently much closer to the 'write once, run anywhere' ideal than Java. Granted, that's just hearsay, but, if it's true, it would seem to indicate that perl is the stronger cross-platform language. > Talking to MS SQL Server is no different then talking to MySQL or Postgres. It's > all JDBC. DBI, as an earlier response mentioned. > Wanna talk XML, there is Xerces-J (yes, there is Xerces-perl too). XML::Parser is the most popular XML parser for perl and was originally written by Larry Wall himself. You can't get much more perly than that... > Printing html from your browser not good enough? Converting the data from html > into a pdf via FOP is no problem. That's another one I'd use an external program for. (Well, actually, I'd avoid it if at all possible. PDF is evil.) However, perl does have the Text::PDF family of modules. > Need to produce a fancy report with SVG (scalable vector graphics)? Grab Batik > and you got everything you need. The SVG-PL site notes that "The CGI demos make real time use of SVG-PL". Turn 'em into mod_perl demos and they'll just get faster. > What to keep your DB object, Business Objects and Presentation (html) Object > _TOTALLY_ separate so you can yank out the html and replace with wxml, wap or > iDEN? Grab Enhydra and you got it made in the shade. I'm not familiar with enhydra, but this sounds more like an architectural issue than a language issue, although the specific tool which enables the better architecture appears to be language-specific. > Think working with the request/response model of web request is a step > backwards? Grab Barracuda and change your web application into a Model2 Event > Model machine (just like Swing). And you've lost me once again, but I think that since the web runs on requests and responses, that's a very natural model to use when coding for it. > Is keeping your production, development and deployment servers in-sync a > nightmare? Bundle all of your Java objects, images, and config files into a WAR > (web archive) and just distribute 1 file for easy upgrades. Sounds pretty cool. But can't you get basically the same effect with tar/cpio or cvs? Having never been into Java, I can't present much in the way of a list of perl's points of percieved superiority, I'm afraid. I use perl because I like it and I like it because it's the most fun of all the useful languages I've learned. (I have a vague memory of Scheme being ridiculously fun to work with in the one course I took that used it, but, at the time, it didn't seem even marginally useful. Now I hear people talking about being able to accomplish things with LISP, so I suppose I should take another look at it real soon now.) I guess I can come up with one reason to use perl for web work: Web servers accept a string of text, do something to it, and send another string of text back. Perl seems to be an obvious choice for use in the server because nothing else (that I've seen, anyhow) slices-n-dices text like perl. -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Mon May 28 11:28:10 2001 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wine and Eazel in Pioneer Press Message-ID: <20010528112810.A4063@baker.space.umn.edu> There are several nice Linux related articles in the Pioneer Press Tech section today - http://www.pioneerplanet.com/tech/. One is Nautilus and Eazel's demise. Another is on whether Linux has become respectable (I hope not :) ). The other is on Wine, and how running Windows Apps may help Linux on the desktop (it includes a survey). Also, they talk a lot about Code Weavers - a local company that is doing a lot of work on Wine. Anyone from there on the list? Seems like a good topic for a meeting - unless they already gave one and I missed it ;). -- Jim Crumley | crumley@fields.space.umn.edu | Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378 | From jethro at freakzilla.com Mon May 28 11:35:46 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT SGI screen saver In-Reply-To: <3B12584E.BE18DADB@gvtel.com> Message-ID: Hi, On Mon, 28 May 2001, Robert Sinland wrote: > Was that available on the Indigo as well? I have no idea, never had an Indigo. It _did_ come installed on a _headless_ Origin200 though. I think it's part of the OS demos, so it might just not be installed. I know IRIX 6.2 had it. > On another semi-related topic, are there any books at _all_ on the > SGI line of computers in general, or the idigo in particular? I don't know, really. I'd look on Fatbrain maybe and on SGI's site for online docs... > Did some searching on Amazon and came up with nada... Well, you have to remember that the last time SGI released anything NEW was quite a while ago. What do you want to know? (: -Yaron -- From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Mon May 28 11:56:56 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT SGI screen saver In-Reply-To: <3B12584E.BE18DADB@gvtel.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 May 2001, Robert Sinland wrote: > Was that available on the Indigo as well? Indeed it is. > Doesn't seem to be loaded on mine in any case, and copies of the > Irix OS are just plain out of sight. (unless you don't mind paying more > for the OS then what your computer cost) If you're talking about eBay prices, you ought to ask SGI what they charge for a copy, without educational or other discounts. It's a couple of grand, I believe. > On another semi-related topic, are there any books at _all_ on the > SGI line of computers in general, or the idigo in particular? > Did some searching on Amazon and came up with nada... SGI has a pretty good set of online things, if you can figure out how to wade through their stuff. Here are a few more links to check, if you haven't already: http://techpubs.sgi.com/ http://www.reputable.com/indytech.html **probably a good place to start http://freeware.sgi.com/ MIPS versions of many of the Linux untils you are used to. Note that there ain't no free SGI compiler, so you want to go get gcc from the freeware site. I've got a few more, like www.mashek.com (up in Ham Lake), and there are some others, but I think you can start unraveling the thread from the reputable site. There aren't a lot of third party books on it, though, because SGI never has been anything but a niche manufacturer. This means that the books are harder / weirder to find, but that what you do find is (usually) a little more authoritative, and there's less duplication of material. Also, amazon's a bad choice -- try www.powells.com, since they have a specialty of dealing with used techincal books. HTH, Phil M -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From blayer at qwest.net Mon May 28 14:21:29 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Via chipset, was Re: Acer 12x IDE burner In-Reply-To: <20010528014249.73544.qmail@web11105.mail.yahoo.com> References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280813@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010528142021.009eb130@pop.mpls.qwest.net> Hello, At 06:42 PM 5/27/01 -0700, you wrote: >--- "Austad, Jay" wrote: > > I did read that if you have a Via chipset, that you should not enable > > DMA > > because of some problems, like major filesystem corruption. Maybe > > they > > fixed this in 2.4.4, I'm running 2.4.3 though. > > I contacted Via's tech support and found out that they have a driver >to fix this bug. (It's a glitch in the KT133A chipset--the southbridge, >to be specific.) If you have a motherboard with this chipset, you may >wish to consider downloading the 4in1 4.31 drivers from >http://www.via.com.tw/download/drivers/4in1431v.zip > :Peter Peter, The VIA 4in1 driver is for the Windows platform.. not Linux. Bill From tanner at real-time.com Mon May 28 16:20:56 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Servlets, php, cold-fusion [Was Volunteering, was: Computers anyone?] In-Reply-To: <20010528111201.C15747@sherohman.org>; from esper@sherohman.org on Mon, May 28, 2001 at 11:12:01AM -0500 References: <20010527222829.E27707@real-time.com> <20010528111201.C15747@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20010528162056.Q27707@real-time.com> Quoting Dave Sherohman (esper@sherohman.org): > On Sun, May 27, 2001 at 10:28:29PM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote: > > Ok, soapbox time, this is not flamebait. It will probably show my ignorance > > on how far perl has come. Hopefully some perl mongers are here so they can > > set me right. I guess the last point I'll make, is I don't see any commerical application servers written in perl. I also could not find any open source application servers written in perl. It's a lame point, but if most of the application servers are written in C or Java and support Java there must be some merit to Java as a web development language. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon May 28 17:55:55 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] errors while fixating a CDR with an ATAPI burner In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628081C@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 May 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > Doh, it was the media. I bought a spindle of 100 PNY CDR's at best buy for > $20. You get what you pay for... Really? I bought 100 PNY's on some kind of rebate deal for SUPER DUPER cheap (same sale on them today at Worst Buy, btw, $8 for 50 after rebate) and I haven't had any problems. Then again, I burn at 4x. What speed are you burning those at? It seems that all the people with media problems are having them at 8x and faster. For me, it's worth waiting that extra 10-15 min if it means I can use the cheapies. Never burned a coaster at 4x. -Brian From esper at sherohman.org Mon May 28 18:12:04 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Servlets, php, cold-fusion [Was Volunteering, was: Computers anyone?] In-Reply-To: <20010528162056.Q27707@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010528181204.B17560@sherohman.org> On Mon, May 28, 2001 at 04:20:56PM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote: > I guess the last point I'll make, is I don't see any commerical application > servers written in perl. I also could not find any open source application > servers written in perl. > > It's a lame point, but if most of the application servers are written in C or > Java and support Java there must be some merit to Java as a web development > language. I suspect that this has more to do with C being the reigning incumbent language (some people may not like C, but just about everyone knows it) and Java both being fairly C-like and having a lot of hype generated about it early on. Perl, OTOH, has a lot of non-C-like idioms which make some people uncomfortable.[1] But, again, perl's biggest strength is in manipulating text. I think it would be quite a stretch to consider an app server to be primarily a text processor, so it doesn't really surprise me. Sure, you could write one in perl if you really wanted to, but it's not the first language I would think of for the task, even though it's one that I really like. I don't see the app serving == web development link you imply, though. Or do you mean something different by an app server than I think you do? (I'm thinking of something very similar to an ORB.) [1] Back before I got hooked on perl, I worked with a guy who was a big-time OO (something else that was grafted onto perl, while it was a core piece of Java from the start) and Patterns zealot and hated toolkits that didn't provide you with exactly one obviously correct way to accomplish something. The Cult of TIMTOWTDI would've been enough to make him reject any thought of using perl. -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From blutgens at _HOSTNAME_ Mon May 28 18:59:30 2001 From: blutgens at _HOSTNAME_ (blutgens@_HOSTNAME_) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and pro-ns.net (Professional Networking Services, Inc.) In-Reply-To: <20010528034305.48565.qmail@web11104.mail.yahoo.com>; from a3alphatriona3@yahoo.com on Sun, May 27, 2001 at 08:43:05PM -0700 References: <20010528034305.48565.qmail@web11104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010528185930.A6256@minime.sistina.com> On Sun, May 27, 2001 at 08:43:05PM -0700, No Spam wrote: > >What the devil is going on? This problem has annoyed >me for a long, long time. :( Thanks in advance for >your help. > try wvdial, see if that helps. From andy at theasis.com Mon May 28 14:32:37 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Servlets, php, cold-fusion [Was Volunteering, was: Computers anyone?] In-Reply-To: <20010528181204.B17560@sherohman.org> Message-ID: > But, again, perl's biggest strength is in manipulating text. I think it would > be quite a stretch to consider an app server to be primarily a text > processor, so it doesn't really surprise me. If it's a DB app, and the server is mainly doing DBI, then it's not much of a stretch at all. Also, for the record, I don't think it's entirely correct any longer (if it ever was) to say that perl's biggest strength is in manipulating text. > [1] Back before I got hooked on perl, I worked with a guy who was a > big-time OO (something else that was grafted onto perl, while it was > a core piece of Java from the start) and Patterns zealot and hated > toolkits that didn't provide you with exactly one obviously correct way That's the story with many people who cling to Java. Java's a fine candidate for a web development language, but it's not the only one or even obviously the best one in any instance. Bottom line is, use the one that lets you get the work done. Andy From jurupari at geocities.com Mon May 28 20:15:25 2001 From: jurupari at geocities.com (Mike) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Coyote and SNMP/MRTG Message-ID: <200105290115.f4T1Fm105124@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> I am trying to get SNMP running on Coyote Linux(1.28) so that I can monitor traffic with MRTG, but I am having some trouble with it. I have the snmp.lrp package added to my boot disk, but I have no idea how to configue the snmpd daemon, or how to start it. I have searched deja and the Coyote Web Forum and all I really found was that a few people have put everything together and have it working - but I couldn't find any more detail than that. Has anyone messed with this? If so, I would appreciate a little help with it. Thanks, Mike From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Mon May 28 21:17:02 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Coyote and SNMP/MRTG In-Reply-To: <200105290115.f4T1Fm105124@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 May 2001, Mike wrote: > I am trying to get SNMP running on Coyote Linux(1.28) so that I can monitor > traffic with MRTG, but I am having some trouble with it. I have the snmp.lrp > package added to my boot disk, but I have no idea how to configue the snmpd > daemon, or how to start it. > > I have searched deja and the Coyote Web Forum and all I really found was > that a few people have put everything together and have it working - but I > couldn't find any more detail than that. > > Has anyone messed with this? If so, I would appreciate a little help with it. I haven't messed with the snmp.lrp package, but I have been playing with CL 1.28 lately. I think as far as starting the daemon goes, you'll just want to put in in the startup scripts. There's even a menu choice, I think System config, and one of the submenus is a good place to add misc start up commands. Sorry if that's not specific enough -- my box is down for a minute while I muck with some hardware config. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From tim at tneu.visi.com Mon May 28 15:24:37 2001 From: tim at tneu.visi.com (tim) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] errors while fixating a CDR with an ATAPI burner Message-ID: <20010528202437.073B24C0@tneu.visi.com> > When I burn a disc with my ATAPI burner, the burn goes just fine until the > end where it fixates the disc. Then I get an Input/Output error which says > Illegal SCSI Request. I read something about the scsi generic driver not > emulating the scg devices as well as they should, and that's why I get the > error. > > So what do I do? The discs I burn don't work because the TOC never gets > written. I've seen this happen when: 1. Using media designed for 8x in 16x mode. (i.e. incompatible media) 2. Trying to use "Disk at Once" copying on a burner that only supports "Track at once". I would see if this occurs in a simulated write. If it is being caused by one of these two reasons, then it will fail in a simulation too. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- What the president of the Motion Picture Association of America says about taking away your constitutional rights: "I'm rather jubilant now. What Judge Kaplan did was blow away every one of these brittle and fragile rebuttals. He threw out fair use; he threw out reverse engineering; he threw out linking." - Jack Valenti, president of the Motion Picture Association of America. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ______ _ __ "If you don't have the freedom to use what you / ' ) ) own - then you do not own anything." / o ______ / / _ . . No apologies to Jack Valenti or the MPAA / <_/ / / < / (_ I can get a connection estbilished, but I don't get anything back. Did SlashDot get SlashDotted? -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From wilson at visi.com Mon May 28 23:11:34 2001 From: wilson at visi.com (Timothy Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] bad gzip archives Message-ID: Hey everyone, I'm trying to download a .tar.gz file from ctan.org, but every time I try to gunzip it, I get the following error message: wilson@copland:~/tmp$ gunzip textmerg.tar.gz gunzip: textmerg.tar.gz: not in gzip format What gives? Are there know problems with certain types of archives. (I seem to remember hearing about GNU tar and some other systems, for example.) -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.org W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From tanner at real-time.com Mon May 28 23:22:43 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Servlets, php, cold-fusion [Was Volunteering, was: Computers anyone?] In-Reply-To: <20010528181204.B17560@sherohman.org>; from esper@sherohman.org on Mon, May 28, 2001 at 06:12:04PM -0500 References: <20010528162056.Q27707@real-time.com> <20010528181204.B17560@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20010528232243.S27707@real-time.com> Quoting Dave Sherohman (esper@sherohman.org): > I don't see the app serving == web development link you imply, though. Or do > you mean something different by an app server than I think you do? (I'm > thinking of something very similar to an ORB.) In application servers, to me, are chunks of software that run the business logic. You got apache (and others) as your presentation "software". You got MySQL (and others) as your database. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From zibby at ringworld.org Tue May 29 00:09:22 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] bad gzip archives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mozilla will automatically ungzip a .gz file, but won't change the extention to reflect that. Use just tar xvf whatever.tar.gz. | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From tanner at real-time.com Tue May 29 00:16:13 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ick. Yuck and ouch Message-ID: <20010529001613.W27707@real-time.com> http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/01_23/b3735001.htm MS to dominate the 'net. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From austad at marketwatch.com Tue May 29 00:53:50 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] errors while fixating a CDR with an ATAPI burner Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628081D@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> 12x. Actually, they work just fine in my roomies Sony burner. Must just be the combination of the Acer 12x ghetto style burner and the PNY discs. Jay -----Original Message----- From: Brian [mailto:lxy@cloudnet.com] Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 5:56 PM To: 'tclug-list@mn-linux.org' Subject: RE: [TCLUG] errors while fixating a CDR with an ATAPI burner On Mon, 28 May 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > Doh, it was the media. I bought a spindle of 100 PNY CDR's at best buy for > $20. You get what you pay for... Really? I bought 100 PNY's on some kind of rebate deal for SUPER DUPER cheap (same sale on them today at Worst Buy, btw, $8 for 50 after rebate) and I haven't had any problems. Then again, I burn at 4x. What speed are you burning those at? It seems that all the people with media problems are having them at 8x and faster. For me, it's worth waiting that extra 10-15 min if it means I can use the cheapies. Never burned a coaster at 4x. -Brian _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jts at tc.umn.edu Tue May 29 03:41:15 2001 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Servlets, php, cold-fusion [Was Volunteering, was: Computersanyone?] In-Reply-To: <200105281658.f4SGw6K03205@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: Does this topic remind anyone else of the vi/emacs wars? My $0.02: - Java is, in some significant ways, a stronger cross-platform language than Perl. Many 3rd party Perl modules are unix-centric, relying upon the presence of a C compiler and make utility (not generally included with windoze, so Perl users on Windows face some extra issues if the module they need is not available in binary form from ActiveState). On the other hand, Sun only recently designated Linux as a "tier 1" platform for Java. - Perl is more scriptable than Java. Much better for ad-hoc scripts and one-liners. - Java is more object-oriented than Perl. Designed as an OO language from the ground up. Highly buzzword compliant (makes PHBs happy). Additional evidence of Java's high levels of buzzword compliance and 3rd party support: http://java.sun.com/products/?frontpage-main http://java.sun.com/j2ee/docs.html http://www.appserver-zone.com/ http://www.bea.com/index.shtml http://www.orionserver.com/ http://www.enhydra.org/ - Java imposes more constraints on program structure than Perl. For large applications, I view this as an advantage for Java ("Hell is other people's Perl" ...) - The market for Java programmers is larger (based on a search at dice.com; 4817 hits for "perl", 11649 hits for "java"). - Both Java and Perl enjoy strong support by the Apache Foundation: http://perl.apache.org/ http://jakarta.apache.org/ http://java.apache.org/ If I were running a business, I'd be more comfortable writing my core business applications in Java than in Perl. This may be a partially subjective opinion, but it's the main reason I have personally chosen to focus on developing my Java skills -- in the past, I have worked using Perl under both *nix and windoze; haven't tried PHP yet, though. Joel P.S. Google reveals additional, seemingly endless, commentary on Perl vs. Java or Java vs. Perl: http://www.google.com/search?q=perl+vs.+java http://www.google.com/search?q=java+vs.+perl --- Member of the GNU/X/Apache/Perl/Samba/OpenSSH/Linux generation. From stauffer_james at yahoo.com Tue May 29 04:48:36 2001 From: stauffer_james at yahoo.com (James A. N. Stauffer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Volunteering, was: Computers anyone? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010529094836.49982.qmail@web11505.mail.yahoo.com> A servlet can have better performace than a C CGI since the JVM stays running so less initialization has to happen (and easier to cache). --- David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > What's servlet performance like? As you say, not relative to C; how > about relative to Perl, or PHP? Or Cold Fusion? Comparing the two on > the same platform of course. ===== = o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ _____=======_||___ o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | | Stauffer_James | .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | | @yahoo.com | >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|________________| _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o¬o¬o o¬o¬o` 'o¬o o¬o` __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From rechp at thebestisp.com Tue May 29 06:58:35 2001 From: rechp at thebestisp.com (Paul Rech) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ick. Yuck and ouch References: <20010529001613.W27707@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B138EEB.81C3C776@thebestisp.com> I don't take much stock in these articles anymore after being directly involved in something like this piece from the article: One of its first converts is Matthew W. Dunn, the chief information officer at Intrawest Corp. (IDR ), a Vancouver (B.C.)-based skiing operator with 10 resorts, including Whistler Mountain in British Columbia and Copper Mountain in Colorado. He wanted to set up a single Web site where skiers could book vacations to any of its resorts, arranging for lodging, lift tickets, ski rentals, and classes. But Dunn also wanted to tie those orders back into Intrawest's software programs that track customer relationships and accounting. SLIPPERY SLOPE. It proved tricky. He ran into glitches with software from Oracle and e-commerce software maker BroadVision Inc. (BVSN ) But using early versions of Microsoft's .Net technology and e-business software from Vancouver-based Pivotal Corp. (PVTL ), he got the system running in just 90 days. I was at a site that is one of the success stories on M$ website. They claimed it took 90 days to implement M$ wonderful software. It was 1 year and 90 days on a project that should have been 60 days. It was way over budget and it didn't work as well as the old system. Two people took care of the old system, over 10 take care of the new system. That's with having M$ engineers on site for next to nothing. Those geniuses couldn't setup up a backup system. One person confided to me months after, that they still did not have one good backup. Or how about this doozy: Perhaps the most ambitious research foray is Microsoft's 10-year march toward solving natural-language processing. It's a techie name, but the concept behind it is simple and quite powerful. It's the idea that computers will be able to respond to questions or commands in everyday language, not just computerese or a long series of mouse clicks. Combine that with speech recognition--another area where Microsoft researchers are plugging away--and one day you'll be able to talk to your computer the same way you do to another person. Microsoft has woven rudimentary natural language into such products as Office. The next step is delivering more advanced capabilities in the version of Windows due out in two years or so, code-named Blackcomb. M$ and AI. Now that's an oxymoron. I used to drive one of the CSCI professors at the UofM to work everyday because he's blind. He is one of the top AI researchers in the world. I asked him about this once and he thought maybe in 50 years you might see something like this. One things for sure, stuff like this will not be coming from M$. Unless it involves users getting their licensing fees to M$ faster. Bob Tanner wrote: > http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/01_23/b3735001.htm > > MS to dominate the 'net. > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From PCZeilon at att.net Tue May 29 08:55:33 2001 From: PCZeilon at att.net (Carl & Paula Zeilon) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Newbie - Help Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010529085533.00ae6590@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> I've just joined tclug in the hopes that someone can help me learn some Linux. I am quite knowledgeable about Windows & hardware, however, Linux gives me fits. I have run Mandrake 7.0 in the past, but it would no longer cooperate when I moved to a newer computer. I've just completed an installation of Mandrake 8.0. The install went great with all my hardware being detected properly (I even have sound!). Now for my first blunder... I logged on as root and set up my internet connection with KPPP. I thought this would set up a connection for all users. What has happened is that now no user except root can log into the system (or at least can't use the KDE or Gnome interfaces). At the "Welcome to Localhost" screen I must log on as root. If I try any other user & KDE I get this message... error setting up inter-process communications, message returned: could not read network connection list. //.dcopserver_localhost.localdomain_:0 check that dcopserver is running. If I try to log onto Gnome it just shoots me back to the "welcome to localhost screen" with no error message. I would appreciate any help, I really want to learn this system. Carl From zibby at ringworld.org Tue May 29 09:15:45 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Newbie - Help In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010529085533.00ae6590@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: Check your ~/.xsession-errors and/or ~/.gnome-errors for error messages that are session related. Error messages from your display manager (KDM/GDM/XDM) usually go somewhere under /var/log. (/var/log/gdm/\:0.log for gdm.) It may be useful to tail these files from the console to figure out what the heck is going on. (tail -f /var/log/gdm/\:0.log /var/log/syslog /var/log/authlog ~/.xsession-errors etc...) One thing you should do is clean up that localhost thing and give your box a name. This can be done by changing /etc/hostname and correctly editing /etc/hosts. Basically you'll want whatever name you choose to point at the loopback interface. An entry like: 127.0.0.1 boxname localhost should be more or less correct. I'm mostly suggesting this because boxen named localhost bug the hell out of me, but it sounds like things are failing on gethostname(). KPPP might have mangled /etc/hosts. This is the best guess I can make without more error log output. :) | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From austad at marketwatch.com Tue May 29 10:07:09 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Newbie - Help Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628081F@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Mandrake 8.0 *could* be a good distribution, and actually probably is. However, I've installed it on about 9 or 10 different boxes, and only one install worked with no problems. I tried the Recommended install on several of the boxes, and different packages were installed on each box, almost like it just randomly chose packages to install. By default it doesn't install bind-utils (nslookup), a telnet client, or traceroute. If you try to install a text only version (no X), it installs X anyway, even if you unselect it and end the install before you get to the "configure X" section. I had the same problem Andy is having on one of the boxes, and I reinstalled using the exact same options, and it then worked fine. I'm fairly disappointed with Mandrake for releasing 8.0 in the state that it's in. It could be a very good distro, especially for beginners, but because of all of the random errors that I've seen with it, I'm convinced that it needs some serious work. Hopefully 8.1 and 8.2 will address all of the problems. -----Original Message----- From: Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) [mailto:zibby@ringworld.org] Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 9:16 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Linux Newbie - Help Check your ~/.xsession-errors and/or ~/.gnome-errors for error messages that are session related. Error messages from your display manager (KDM/GDM/XDM) usually go somewhere under /var/log. (/var/log/gdm/\:0.log for gdm.) It may be useful to tail these files from the console to figure out what the heck is going on. (tail -f /var/log/gdm/\:0.log /var/log/syslog /var/log/authlog ~/.xsession-errors etc...) One thing you should do is clean up that localhost thing and give your box a name. This can be done by changing /etc/hostname and correctly editing /etc/hosts. Basically you'll want whatever name you choose to point at the loopback interface. An entry like: 127.0.0.1 boxname localhost should be more or less correct. I'm mostly suggesting this because boxen named localhost bug the hell out of me, but it sounds like things are failing on gethostname(). KPPP might have mangled /etc/hosts. This is the best guess I can make without more error log output. :) | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From zibby at ringworld.org Tue May 29 10:32:31 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Newbie - Help In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628081F@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: > If you try to install a text only version (no X), it installs X anyway, even > if you unselect it and end the install before you get to the "configure X" > section. Mandrake isn't a good text only disto anyway. It's geared to the newbie desktop user, and generally fills that role well. > I had the same problem Andy is having on one of the boxes I'm not having problems, I run Debian! I'm just suggesting fixes. > serious work. Hopefully 8.1 and 8.2 will address all of the problems. Oh how we've heard that before. :) | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From jacque at fruitioninc.com Tue May 29 10:48:01 2001 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT disk data duplicator thingy? Message-ID: I'm getting a new, replacement harddrive for my laptop and I think I remember seeing some kind of "thing" that allowed you to duplicate the data from the old harddrive to the new one, so you don't have to re-install everything. Does anyone know what the "thing" is called? And do they actually work? thanks, Jacque From dopp at acm.cs.umn.edu Tue May 29 10:59:46 2001 From: dopp at acm.cs.umn.edu (dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT disk data duplicator thingy? In-Reply-To: ; from jacque@fruitioninc.com on Tue, May 29, 2001 at 10:48:01AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010529105946.A32590@sorry.cs.umn.edu> Maybe you're thnking of Ghost. Also, you could make the appropriate partitions on your new drive and then use dump and restore to copy your data over to the new drive, preserving permissions a/m/ctimes and all that. man dump; man restore. Gabe On Tue, May 29, 2001 at 10:48:01AM -0500, Jacqueline Urick wrote: > I'm getting a new, replacement harddrive for my laptop and I think I > remember seeing some kind of "thing" that allowed you to duplicate the data > from the old harddrive to the new one, so you don't have to re-install > everything. Does anyone know what the "thing" is called? And do they > actually work? > > thanks, > > Jacque > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gabe Turner | X-President, SGI Origin Systems Administrator, | Assoc. for Computing Machinery U of M Supercomputing Institute for | University of Minnesohta Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation | dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu "There's nothing wrong with keeping your children away from the forces of decay." - Bobbi Dooley From jethro at yaron.org Tue May 29 11:02:40 2001 From: jethro at yaron.org (jethro@yaron.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT disk data duplicator thingy? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <991152160.3b13c8206e6fe@dragon> Hi, Quoting Jacqueline Urick : > I'm getting a new, replacement harddrive for my laptop and I think I > remember seeing some kind of "thing" that allowed you to duplicate the > data > from the old harddrive to the new one, so you don't have to re-install > everything. Does anyone know what the "thing" is called? And do they > actually work? I used dd to do my laptop. Even worked on the Windows partition, as long as the new one was more-or-less the smae size (ok, slightly more). Had to hack the registry cause WIndows is a moron, but that's ok. I think the posting to the list someone made was titled "ghetto-ghost". -Yaron -- From zibby at ringworld.org Tue May 29 11:02:52 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT disk data duplicator thingy? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Is the new disk a different size? If it's the same disk, you could just use dd. (dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hdb) Jay posted something about a poor man's ghost. See archives. This may also be a good time to consider moving from ext2 to ReiserFS or XFS, as a cp -a / /mnt/new-disk will work just fine. (acutally, you have to be more selective or you'll recursivly copy /mnt/new-disk as well...) | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From jacque at fruitioninc.com Tue May 29 11:00:52 2001 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT disk data duplicator thingy? In-Reply-To: <20010529105946.A32590@sorry.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: But how do I hook the old drive up to the laptop to do that? I guess thats the "thing" I'm looking for, the thing that allows me to connect my old HD and my new HD up to my laptop simultaneously. I don't know what thats called, or maybe there is no such thing and I'm a moron. :) ~j From ben at nerp.net Tue May 29 11:08:20 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT disk data duplicator thingy? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- well.. with linux there are a bunch of things you can do.. my prefered method, because it allows you to resize your partitions, and defragment the data at the same time (linux doesn't fragment much, but it can a bit over time) is to use CPIO. it's not the easiest thing, unless you're used to console tools. but anyway.. here's what I do. (this requires you have both disks in a single system, which can be a problem for laptops. to dupe a laptop drive, you can mount a remote filesystem over ethernet, and a change to the CPIO option will make it an archive. boot a rescue disk.. like debian installer, or redhat in rescue mode. fdisk your new drive the way you want it. mke2fs on all the partitions mkdir /new mount all your filesystems onto /new the way you want it for each old filesystem: find . -xdev -print | cpio -pdVm /new(+filesystems if necessary) a quick summary of the options find: -xdev will only copy one filesystem at a time.. that way it doesn't try and copy /new onto itself :) CPIO: - -p: passthorugh, this is the command that actualy does the passthrough copying. - -d: create directories, necessary for filling out the new filesystem - -V: verbose dots.. for each file, print a '.' - -m: preserve modification dates. Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Tue, 29 May 2001, Jacqueline Urick wrote: > I'm getting a new, replacement harddrive for my laptop and I think I > remember seeing some kind of "thing" that allowed you to duplicate the data > from the old harddrive to the new one, so you don't have to re-install > everything. Does anyone know what the "thing" is called? And do they > actually work? > > thanks, > > Jacque > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOxPJdctpDhsSpvgtAQHKrAP8Cg9EYfkqgzkmeo12+lWmH6GHq7lcfQVY 24NHlp2EUIo4YkBzbH6hkhBUrRIdH5EIwUhBD2bG1T/M/VDl/jt+Z06fv6lzDVf3 b2fmgYhi2AtIE2vuszq1sWGcm4kFvAjfNjRP6UeetZdhzw/3fn3um03Hf41mVRYQ L6XwElqtsQ8= =EQzm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ben at nerp.net Tue May 29 11:09:41 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT disk data duplicator thingy? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- best thing to do, is pull both disks out, and buy a couple adapters, (or borrow them from another geek :) they convert 2.5" integrated connector into standard IDE cable/power plug. they cost around $15 Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Tue, 29 May 2001, Jacqueline Urick wrote: > But how do I hook the old drive up to the laptop to do that? I guess thats > the "thing" I'm looking for, the thing that allows me to connect my old HD > and my new HD up to my laptop simultaneously. I don't know what thats > called, or maybe there is no such thing and I'm a moron. :) > > ~j > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOxPJxstpDhsSpvgtAQHVMAP/dSbQe+g9fiTL07NTihdLrbEkje3xQmHd eWkRKToJCDa/3Bm1xtLtx1JVKz9CpqCLxf6czt9o5nWGM90zfhMnmrDVKLZ10zMQ yf28obInPeaMD0y1cvYPUFel63IA+CmkDwSLKJalCUWR542JqVIZF/V7wfU5/5PK iLEDx8Em7p0= =Gqhr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jethro at yaron.org Tue May 29 11:13:43 2001 From: jethro at yaron.org (jethro@yaron.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT disk data duplicator thingy? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <991152823.3b13cab79819f@dragon> Hi, Quoting Jacqueline Urick : > But how do I hook the old drive up to the laptop to do that? I guess > thats the "thing" I'm looking for, the thing that allows me to connect my old > HD and my new HD up to my laptop simultaneously. I don't know what thats > called, or maybe there is no such thing and I'm a moron. :) That's pretty much laptop-dependant. On mine you can take the CDROM out and stick an extra HDD in (you need a bay thinggie for the HDD). I also have a PCMCIA IDE thing you can hook more HDDs into, but that won't work under Linux or DOS. I'd look for accessories on the manufacturor's page (unless you have a Toshiba Tecra 8100, in which case you can borrow a HDD bay from me). -Yaron -- From blayer at qwest.net Tue May 29 11:40:51 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT disk data duplicator thingy? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010529114051.5d7ffa66.blayer@qwest.net> On Tue, 29 May 2001 11:09:41 -0500 (CDT) "Ben Kochie" wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > best thing to do, is pull both disks out, and buy a couple adapters, (or > borrow them from another geek :) they convert 2.5" integrated connector > into standard IDE cable/power plug. they cost around $15 I've got such a setup, and it's rigged to a removable drive bay in my desktop. It's easy to get the data on & off with this system. If you run out of ideas, I'd be willing to do the work of transfer for you. Beer is on you ;) -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From austad at marketwatch.com Tue May 29 11:47:00 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT disk data duplicator thingy? Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280820@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Buy two of those 3.5" to 2.5" adapters and stick the drives in a standard PC, boot with a Toms rootboot (http://www.toms.net) disk, and do a: cat /dev/hdb > /dev/hdc (replace with proper devices of course) Or buy one adapter, put the drive in a pc, leave the other in your laptop, and search the archives for "ghetto ghost". Then you can fdisk it and make a new partition with the extra space at the end of the drive. However, I think there's a way to resize e2fs partitions, though I've never done it. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: jethro@yaron.org [mailto:jethro@yaron.org] > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 11:14 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: RE: [TCLUG] OT disk data duplicator thingy? > > > Hi, > > Quoting Jacqueline Urick : > > > But how do I hook the old drive up to the laptop to do that? I guess > > thats the "thing" I'm looking for, the thing that allows me > to connect my old > > HD and my new HD up to my laptop simultaneously. I don't > know what thats > > called, or maybe there is no such thing and I'm a moron. :) > > That's pretty much laptop-dependant. On mine you can take the > CDROM out and > stick an extra HDD in (you need a bay thinggie for the HDD). > I also have a > PCMCIA IDE thing you can hook more HDDs into, but that won't > work under Linux > or DOS. > > I'd look for accessories on the manufacturor's page (unless > you have a Toshiba > Tecra 8100, in which case you can borrow a HDD bay from me). > > -Yaron > > -- > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Tue May 29 13:49:12 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT disk data duplicator thingy? In-Reply-To: ; from ben@nerp.net on Tue, May 29, 2001 at 11:08:20AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010529134912.F4882@ringworld.org> dump works too. :) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010529/1fd22ae0/attachment.pgp From makemoremoney at yahoo.com Tue May 29 15:00:18 2001 From: makemoremoney at yahoo.com (makemoremoney@yahoo.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Well....Here it is!!! Message-ID: <165.769534.813341@yahoo.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010529/e37344b4/attachment.html From drew at usfamily.net Tue May 29 08:05:25 2001 From: drew at usfamily.net (Andrew Nemchenko) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Well....Here it is!!! References: <165.769534.813341@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B139E95.80A33F6C@usfamily.net> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: drew.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 265 bytes Desc: Card for Andrew Nemchenko Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010529/b14802f6/drew.vcf From simeonuj at eetc.com Tue May 29 14:01:13 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT disk data duplicator thingy? References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280820@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <3B13F1D8.8CE3ACD4@eetc.com> "Austad, Jay" wrote: > Buy two of those 3.5" to 2.5" adapters and stick the drives in a standard > PC, boot with a Toms rootboot (http://www.toms.net) disk, and do a: > cat /dev/hdb > /dev/hdc (replace with proper devices of course) > > Or buy one adapter, put the drive in a pc, leave the other in your laptop, > and search the archives for "ghetto ghost". > > Then you can fdisk it and make a new partition with the extra space at the > end of the drive. However, I think there's a way to resize e2fs partitions, > though I've never done it. > > Jay I used parted to resize my partitions. Works great. I would love to try ReiserFS or XFS but haven't the time nor resorces so can't help you there. Just looked through my old mail and found this. Previous post: "Ghetto Ghost" "Austad, Jay" wrote: > So, since I don't have a copy of ghost, and I don't think ghost works with > Linux anyway, I used a couple of commands which did the same thing. > > I need to clone one of my machines to about 10 other ones. And because of > the level of customization, it would take forever to do by hand. So, I > downloaded Tom's root boot floppy from http://www.toms.net. The machine I > needed to clone was booted in read-only mode, it had an ip of 10.10.220.53. > I then booted the other machine with Tom's root boot disk and gave it the ip > 10.10.220.21. On the one I wanted to clone to, I did: > nc -l -n -v -p 6666 > /dev/sda > > On the machine I wanted to clone from, I did: > cat /dev/sda | nc -n -v 10.10.220.21 6666 > > After a couple of hours, the command finished. I unplugged the network > cable from the new machine (since it was a clone with the same ip as the > other one), and rebooted. It cloned the MBR, the partition table, and all > of the data. The machine seems to work perfectly. I changed the ip on it, > and stuck it into production and it's been performing flawlessly all > morning. > > Jay Very nice. Just get a cross over cable and go to town. HTH, sim From austad at marketwatch.com Tue May 29 14:23:40 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Well....Here it is!!! Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280829@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> How I would love to kick your ass.... -----Original Message----- From: makemoremoney@yahoo.com [mailto:makemoremoney@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 10:00 AM To: tclug-list@lists.real-time.com Subject: [TCLUG] Well....Here it is!!! Hi, ''Making over half million dollars every 4 to 5 months from your home for an investment of only $25 U.S. Dollars expense one time'' THANKS TO THE COMPUTER AGE AND THE INTERNET! ================================================= BE A MILLIONAIRE LIKE OTHERS WITHIN A YEAR!!! Before you say ''Bull'', please read the following. This is the letter you have been hearing about on the news lately. Due to the popularity of this letter on the internet, a national weekly news program recently devoted an entire show to the investigation of this program described below, to see if it really can make people money. The show also investigated whether or not the program was legal. Their findings proved once and for all that there are ''absolutely NO laws prohibiting the participation in the program and if people can follow the simple instructions, they are bound to make some mega bucks with only $25 out of pocket cost''. DUE TO THE RECENT INCREASE OF POPULARITY & RESPECT THIS PROGRAM HAS ATTAINED, IT IS CURRENTLY WORKING BETTER THAN EVER. This is what one had to say: ''Thanks to this profitable opportunity. I was approached many times before but each time I passed on it. I am so glad I finally joined just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal effort and money required. To my astonishment, I received total $ 610,470.00 in 21 weeks, with money still coming in''. Pam Hedland, Fort Lee, New Jersey. ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------- Here is another testimonial: ''This program has been around for a long time but I never believed in it. But one day when I received this again in the mail I decided to gamble my $25 on it. I followed the simple instructions and voila' - 3 weeks later the money started to come in. First month I only made $240.00 but the next 2 months after that I made a total of $290,000.00. So far, in the past 8 months by re-entering the program, I have made over $710,000.00 and I am playing it again.The key to success in this program is to follow the simple steps and NOT change anything'' More testimonials later but first, ****PRINT THIS NOW FOR YOUR FUTURE REFERENCE**** $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ If you would like to make at least $500,000 every 4 to 5 months easily and comfortably, please read the following...THEN READ IT AGAIN and AGAIN!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ FOLLOW THE SIMPLE INSTRUCTION BELOW AND YOUR FINANCIAL DREAMS WILL COME TRUE, GUARANTEED! INSTRUCTIONS: ****Order all 5 reports shown on the list below. ****For each report, send $5 CASH, THE NAME & NUMBER OF THE REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING and YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS to the person whose name appears ON THAT LIST next to the report. MAKE SURE YOUR RETURN ADDRESS IS ON YOUR ENVELOPE TOP LEFT CORNER in case of any mail problems. ****When you place your order, make sure you order each of the 5 reports.You will need all 5 reports so that you can save them on your computer and resell them. YOUR TOTAL COST $5 X 5 = $25.00. ****Within a few days you will receive, vie e-mail, each of the 5 reports from these 5 different individuals. Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you. Also make a floppy of these reports and keep it on your desk in case something happen to your computer. ****IMPORTANT __ DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other than what is instructed below in step '' 1 through 6 '' or you will loose out on majority of your profits. Once you understand the way this works, you will also see how it does not work if you change it. Remember, this method has been tested, and if you alter, it will NOT work!!! People have tried to put their friends/relatives names on all five thinking they could get all the money. But it does not work this way. Believe us, we all have tried to be greedy and then nothing happened. So Do Not try to change anything other than what is instructed. Because if you do, it will not work for you.Remember, honesty reaps the reward!!! 1....After you have ordered all 5 reports, take this advertisement and REMOVE the name & address of the person in REPORT #5. This person has made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their fortune. 2....Move the name & address in REPORT #4 down TO REPORT # 5. 3....Move the name & address in REPORT #3 down TO REPORT # 4. 4....Move the name & address in REPORT #2 down TO REPORT # 3. 5....Move the name & address in REPORT #1 down TO REPORT #2 6....Insert YOUR name & address in the REPORT #1 Position. PLEASE MAKE SURE you copy every name & address ACCURATELY! ================================================= ****Take this entire letter, with the modified list of names, and save it on your computer. DO NOT MAKE ANY OTHER CHANGES. Save this on a disk as well just in case if you loose any data. ****To assist you with marketing your business on the internet, the 5 reports you purchase will provide you with invaluable marketing information which includes how to send bulk e-mails legally, where to find thousands of free classified ads and much more. There are 2 Primary methods to get this venture going: METHOD #1 : BY SENDING BULK E-MAIL LEGALLY ================================================= Let's say that you decide to start small, just to see how it goes, and we will assume You and those involved send out only 5,000 e-mails each. Let's also assume that the mailing receive only a 0.2% response (the response could be much better but lets just say it is only 0.2% . Also many people will send out hundreds of thousands e-mails instead of only 5,000 each). Continuing with this example, you send out only 5,000 e- mails.With a 0.2% response, that is only 10 orders for report # 1.Those 10 people responded by sending out 5,000 e- mail each for a total of 50,000. Out of those 50,000 e-mails only 0.2% responded with orders. That's = 100 people responded and ordered Report # 2. Those 100 people mail out 5,000 e-mails each for a total of 500,000 e-mails. The 0.2% response to that is 1000 orders for Report # 3. Those 1000 people send out 5,000 e-mails each for a total of 5 million e-mails sent out. The 0.2% response to that is 10,000 orders for Report # 4. Those 10,000 people send out 5,000 e-mails each for a total of 50,000,000 (50 million) e-mails. The 0.2% response to that is 100,000 orders for Report # 5 THAT'S 100,000 ORDERS TIMES $5 EACH = $500,000.00 (half million). Your total income in this example is: 1..... $50 + 2..... $500 + 3..... $5,000 + 4..... $50,000 + 5..... $500,000 ......... Grand Total = $555,550.00 NUMBERS DO NOT LIE. GET A PENCIL & PAPER AND FIGURE OUT THE WORST POSSIBLE RESPONSES AND NO MATTER HOW YOU CALCULATE IT, YOU WILL STILL MAKE A LOT OF MONEY! ------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- REMEMBER FRIEND, THIS IS ASSUMING ONLY 10 PEOPLE ORDERING OUT OF 5,000 YOU MAILED TO. Dare to think for a moment what would happen if everyone, or half or even one 4th of those people mailed 100,000 e-mails each or more? There are over 150 million people on the internet worldwide and counting. Believe me, any people will do just that, and more! METHOD #2 : BY PLACING FREE ADS ON THE INTERNET ================================================= Advertising on the net is very very inexpensive and there are hundreds of FREE places to advertise. Placing a lot of free ads on the internet will easily get a larger response. We strongly suggest you start with method #1 and add METHOD #2 as you go along. For every $5 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the Report they ordered. That's it . Always provide same day service on all orders. This will guarantee that the e-mail they send out, with your name and address on it, will be prompt because they can not advertise until they receive the report. _________________AVAILABLE REPORTS__________________ ORDER EACH REPORT BY ITS NUMBER & NAME ONLY. Notes: Always send $5 cash (U.S. CURRENCY) for each Report. Checks NOT accepted. Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least 2 sheets of paper. On one of those sheets of paper, Write the NUMBER & the NAME of the Report you are ordering, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS and your name and postal address. PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THESE REPORTS NOW: ================================================= REPORT #1 ''The Insider's Guide to Advertising for Free on the Net'' Order Report #1 from: JB Concepts PO Box 15388 Savannah, GA 31416 _____________________________________________________ REPORT #2 ''The Insider's Guide to Sending Bulk e-mail on the Net'' Order Report #2 from : Arthur Hicks 1430 W. 27th St. Los Angeles, CA 90007 ____________________________________________________ REPORT #3 ''The Secret to Multilevel marketing on the Net'' Order Report #3 from: Eric Helmstetter 3 Midtown Plaza Washington, NJ 07882 _____________________________________________________ REPORT #4 ''How to become a Millionaire utilizing MLM & the Net'' Order Report #4 from: C. D. Usvaltas R. R. #1 Campbelleville, Ont. Canada LOP 1B0 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #5 ''HOW TO SEND 1 MILLION E-MAILS FOR FREE'' Order Report #5 from: Bonnie Jay P.O. Box 1463 Montrose, CO 81402 USA _____________________________________________________ $$$$$$$$$$$$ YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success: ***If you do not receive at least 10 orders for Report #1 within 2 weeks, continue sending e-mails until you do. ***After you have received 10 orders, 2 to 3 weeks after that you should receive 100 orders or more for REPORT #2. If you did not, continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do. ***Once you have received 100 or more orders for Report #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you , and the cash will continue to roll in! THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER : Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a Different report. You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you. IF YOU WANT TO GENERATE MORE INCOME SEND ANOTHER BATCH OF E-MAILS AND START THE WHOLE PROCESS AGAIN. There is NO LIMIT to the income you can generate from this business!!! ______________________________________________________ FOLLOWING IS A NOTE FROM THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS PROGRAM: "You have just received information that can give you financial freedom for the rest of your life, with NO RISK and JUST A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT. You can make more money in the next few weeks and months than you have ever imagined. Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do Not change it in any way. It works exceedingly well as it is now. Remember to e-mail a copy of this exciting report after you have put your name and address in Report #1 and moved others to #2 ...........#5 as instructed above. One of the people you send this to may send out 100,000 or more e-mails and your name will be on everyone of them. Remember though, the more you send out the more potential customers you will reach. So my friend, I have given you the ideas, information, materials and opportunity to become financially independent. IT IS UP TO YOU NOW! ****************MORE TESTIMONIALS***************** 'My name is Mitchell. My wife, Jody and I live in Chicago. I am an accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good money. When I received this program I grumbled to Jody about receiving ''junk mail''. I made fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the population and percentages involved. I ''knew'' it wouldn't work. Jody totally ignored my supposed intelligence and few days later she jumped in with both feet. I made merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay the old ''I told you so'' on her when the thing didn't work. Well, the laugh was on me! Within 3 weeks she had received 50 responses. Within the next 45 days she had received total $ 147,200.00 ......... all cash! I was shocked. I have joined Jody in her ''hobby''. Mitchell Wolf, M.D. , Chicago, Illinois ------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- ''Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my mind to participate in this plan. But conservative that I am, I decided that the initial investment was so little that there was just no way that I wouldn't get enough orders to at least get my money back''. ''I was surprised when I found my medium size post office box crammed with orders. I made $319,210.00 in the first 12 weeks. The nice thing about this deal is that it does not matter where people live. There simply isn't a better investment with a faster return and so big''. Dan Sondstrom, Alberta, Canada ------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- ''I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I wondered if I should have given it a try. Of course, I had no no idea who to contact to get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed again by someone else.........11 months passed then it luckily came again...... I did not delete this one! I made more than $490,000 on my first try and all the money came within 22 weeks''. Susan De Suza, New York, N.Y. ------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- ''It really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money with little cost to you. I followed the simple instructions carefully and within 10 days the money started to come in. My first month I made $ 20, 560.00 and by the end of third month my total cash count was $ 362,840.00. Life is beautiful, Thanx to internet''. Fred Dellaca, Westport, New Zealand ------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM! ================================================== If you have any questions of the legality of this program, contact the Office of Associate Director for Marketing Practices, Federal Trade Commission, Bureau of Consumer Protection, Washington, D.C. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// /////////////////// ONE TIME MAILING, NO NEED TO REMOVE //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// /////////////////// This message is sent in compliance of the proposed bill SECTION 301. per Section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 1618. Further transmission to you by the sender of this e- mail may be stopped at no cost to you by sending a reply to :Sophie530@email.com with the word Remove in the subject line. This message is not intended for residents in the State of Washington, screening of addresses has been done to the best of our technical ability. _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010529/9f8076b4/attachment.htm From florin at iucha.net Tue May 29 14:30:20 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Newbie - Help In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010529085533.00ae6590@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>; from PCZeilon@att.net on Tue, May 29, 2001 at 08:55:33AM -0500 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010529085533.00ae6590@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <20010529143020.A14678@beaver.iucha.org> On Tue, May 29, 2001 at 08:55:33AM -0500, Carl & Paula Zeilon wrote: > I've just joined tclug in the hopes that someone can help me learn some > Linux. I am quite knowledgeable about Windows & hardware, however, Linux > gives me fits. I have run Mandrake 7.0 in the past, but it would no longer > cooperate when I moved to a newer computer. > > I've just completed an installation of Mandrake 8.0. The install went > great with all my hardware being detected properly (I even have > sound!). Now for my first blunder... I logged on as root and set up my > internet connection with KPPP. I thought this would set up a connection > for all users. What has happened is that now no user except root can log > into the system (or at least can't use the KDE or Gnome interfaces). At > the "Welcome to Localhost" screen I must log on as root. If I try any > other user & KDE I get this message... error setting up inter-process > communications, message returned: could not read network connection > list. //.dcopserver_localhost.localdomain_:0 check that dcopserver is > running. If I try to log onto Gnome it just shoots me back to the "welcome > to localhost screen" with no error message. That sounds strange... 1. Did the computer work after installation? I mean were you able to logout, login, reboot the computer and it just stopped working after KPPP? 2. Try to think what else have you changed. After you install a new system usually one tries to do all sorts of customization. What makes you sure the KPPP setup was the culprit? 3. Can you login at the console? Try "Ctrl-Alt-F1" and you should get to a console. Try to login as a regular user and see what happens. 4. Login as root and create another user, then try to login as that user. Maybe you existing profiles are toasted... Thas't generic stuff so far. I don't have Mandrake experience, but these should get you started. florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From tanner at real-time.com Tue May 29 14:30:29 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More holds on domains Message-ID: <20010529143029.R25724@real-time.com> ----- Forwarded message from makemoremoney@yahoo.com ----- > From: > To: tclug-list@lists.real-time.com > Subject: [TCLUG] Well....Here it is!!! > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 15:00:18 > > > Hi, > ''Making over half million dollars every 4 to 5 months from > your home for an investment of only $25 U.S. Dollars expense > one time'' THANKS TO THE COMPUTER AGE AND THE INTERNET! I have added yahoo.com to the list of hold domains. IF you post from yahoo.com, your email will be held for approval. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From zibby at ringworld.org Tue May 29 15:29:27 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More holds on domains In-Reply-To: <20010529143029.R25724@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 May 2001, Bob Tanner wrote: > I have added yahoo.com to the list of hold domains. > > IF you post from yahoo.com, your email will be held for approval. Mostly curisoity, but with mailman can you create an anti-blacklist for users coming from problem domains who do contribute to the list? Exceptions to the hold rule? One of those random things that I'll probally never get around to looking into, and perhaps more than you want to deal with. | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From dd-b at dd-b.net Tue May 29 16:58:22 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Servlets, php, cold-fusion [Was Volunteering, was: Computers anyone?] In-Reply-To: <20010528111201.C15747@sherohman.org> References: <20010528111201.C15747@sherohman.org> Message-ID: Dave Sherohman writes: > Using mod_perl, you can create a startup script (using the PerlRequire or > PerlModule directive) which will run at server startup, when the mod_perl > environment is set up. Anything it does (like setting up DB connections or > precaching data) is then inherited by all child processes. > > Also, individual perl modules are persistent within each child process. > One of the things frequently stressed in the documentation I've seen > on writing perl modules for apache is that you have to clean up after > yourself, because the next request delegated to that child will have > whatever environment you leave behind. It seems that many CGI programmers > are in the habit of assuming that the world ends when their script does, > so they don't bother closing files, etc. I've never understood what mod_perl itself is really good for; the documentation didn't communicate anything to me. (I had at the time been writing Perl CGI scripts for years, making use of Perl 5 and objects. I had also run various web servers for several years. I.e., perhaps I was ignorant in the area, but I thought I had reason to believe otherwise.) I installed it because it was a prereq for embperl, if I remember correctly (I had originally hoped that it would *be* embperl). I've never written an Apache module; maybe the problem is I don't know I should be writing Apache modules for functions specific to particular web sites I'm developing? (Um, reading this I guess it could be interpreted as a slam at mod_perl and stuff. My actual intent is to try to get some pointers to understand the stuff here I don't currently understand.) -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From dd-b at dd-b.net Tue May 29 17:02:28 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Volunteering, was: Computers anyone? In-Reply-To: <20010529094836.49982.qmail@web11505.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010529094836.49982.qmail@web11505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: "James A. N. Stauffer" writes: > A servlet can have better performace than a C CGI since the JVM stays > running so less initialization has to happen (and easier to cache). Sure. The fact that *every comment* about relative performance has been about amortizing startup across many runs beings to suggest, however, that head-to-head the performance sucks. Er, that head-to-head performance isn't the measurement where JVM shows well. Is that true? In lots of the real world, just the amortizing of startup costs can be enough to make CGI clearly the wrong choice for a feature; I fully understand that and agree with it, and have made that choice. I'm asking about the other because, well, I'm curious about that, too. -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Tue May 29 17:49:20 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Servlets, php, cold-fusion [Was Volunteering,was: Computers anyone?] Message-ID: David, Regular Perl CGI programs are spawned by a web server for every request made of them, and so have a Perl interpreter startup cost and memory usage in addition to that of the web server (httpd). Mod_perl makes the Perl interpreter part of the httpd itself, so that startup costs are negated and memory usage is less (compared to the full blown interpreter), but it also beefs up _every_ httpd (could be compiled in or dynamically loaded, but the effect is the same). Not a huge deal if you only server dynamic content, but a waste if you serve up lots of images or static pages and only a few dynamic pages. It is probably because you _can_ be ignorant of mod_perl vs. Perl CGI execution (mostly) that the diffence isn't obvious. The mod_perl folks have taken pains to make sure that Perl CGIs will run under mod_perl with little or no modification. PHP can be run as a pure CGI program, but at a significant penalty in performance and capability. The same goes for Perl. I like PHP, but I would prefer to have more perl-like variable punctuation and DBI. I like the idea of HTML::Mason, but I would prefer to have a more flexible way of placing code (more like PHP). Now I am just waiting for someone to get peanutbutter in someone elses chocolate, and I am betting on the HTML::Mason guys. ;-) Troy >>> dd-b@dd-b.net 05/29/01 04:58PM >>> I've never understood what mod_perl itself is really good for; the documentation didn't communicate anything to me. (I had at the time been writing Perl CGI scripts for years, making use of Perl 5 and objects. I had also run various web servers for several years. I.e., perhaps I was ignorant in the area, but I thought I had reason to believe otherwise.) I installed it because it was a prereq for embperl, if I remember correctly (I had originally hoped that it would *be* embperl). I've never written an Apache module; maybe the problem is I don't know I should be writing Apache modules for functions specific to particular web sites I'm developing? (Um, reading this I guess it could be interpreted as a slam at mod_perl and stuff. My actual intent is to try to get some pointers to understand the stuff here I don't currently understand.) From scanman at mninter.net Tue May 29 17:56:09 2001 From: scanman at mninter.net (ScanMan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ick. Yuck and ouch References: <20010529001613.W27707@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B142909.8030906@mninter.net> This makes me sick! Bob Tanner wrote: >http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/01_23/b3735001.htm > >MS to dominate the 'net. > From esper at sherohman.org Tue May 29 19:58:55 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Servlets, php, cold-fusion [Was Volunteering,was: Computers anyone?] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010529195855.A29318@sherohman.org> On Tue, May 29, 2001 at 05:49:20PM -0500, Troy Johnson wrote: > Just one error, relatively minor in scope, but fairly major in effect. > Mod_perl makes the Perl interpreter part of the httpd itself, so that > startup costs are negated and memory usage is less (compared to the > full blown interpreter), but it also beefs up _every_ httpd This is half true. Yes, there's a full copy of the perl interpreter (and any perl modules loaded in with PerlRequire or PerlModule, plus mod_perl itself and any other apache modules that are configured) preloaded into every httpd. However, Linux (like most, if not all, other modern OSes) is smart enough to use copy-on-write semantics. Basically, what this means is that when a child process is spawned, all of its pointers reference the parent's memory space and the referenced data doesn't get copied until one process or the other tries to modify it. Since the actual executable code isn't allowed to be modified at runtime, this means that all the httpds are sharing the same perl interpreter. By comparison, using traditional CGI, each child spawns its own interpreter. Since it's not inherited from the parent, sharing the memory doesn't come as easily and any parts that aren't in .so libraries are likely to be duplicated in each child. So you've got it backwards: Because mod_perl can share data more effectively between httpd processes, it can easily end up taking less average memory (and will take up no more peak memory) than traditional CGI scripting. -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Tue May 29 20:19:40 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Servlets, php, cold-fusion [Was Volunteering,was: Computers anyone?] In-Reply-To: ; from Troy.A.Johnson@state.mn.us on Tue, May 29, 2001 at 05:49:20PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010529201940.G4882@ringworld.org> * Troy Johnson [010529 17:51]: > Regular Perl CGI programs are spawned by a web server for every request made of them, and so have a Perl interpreter startup cost and memory usage in addition to that of the web server (httpd). Mod_perl makes the Perl interpreter part of the httpd itself, so that startup costs are negated and memory usage is less (compared to the full blown interpreter), but it also beefs up _every_ httpd (could be compiled in or dynamically loaded, but the effect is the same). Not a huge deal if you only server dynamic content, but a waste if you serve up lots of images or static pages and only a few dynamic pages. Wrap at 72 next time. Also, theres Mason, a apache module that does perl more like php afaik. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net So little time, so little to do. -- Oscar Levant -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010529/bd044c67/attachment.pgp From jack at jacku.com Tue May 29 07:08:19 2001 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ick. Yuck and ouch In-Reply-To: <20010529001613.W27707@real-time.com> References: <20010529001613.W27707@real-time.com> Message-ID: <01052907081900.01326@geezer> [Disclaimer: I only scanned part of this article but I'm going to comment anyway. :) ] I would suggest this is unlikely. As the statistics show, even though the US is currently the leader in 'net access its will most likely lose that distinction to China RSN. Already some of the stats say that less than 50% of 'net users speak English as a first language. We know that the monolithic nature of the US computer market is more the exception than the rule. Its quite possible that Microsoft will provide additional ease of use for its customers. But in some countries it will become an act of "patriotic nationalism" to not use MS software (or only pirated copies ;-) so that money isn't flowing to the US. My .02 (early in the morning.) Jack On Tuesday 29 May 2001 00:16, you wrote: > http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/01_23/b3735001.htm > > MS to dominate the 'net. From jack at jacku.com Tue May 29 21:10:17 2001 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT disk data duplicator thingy? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01052921101700.01250@geezer> Since nobody else answered the actual question. (although there were a lot of interesting suggestions. ;-) I'll try. What you are thinking about is the Apricorn EZ-Gig. Its a PCMCIA IDE adapter and software designed to move the contents of your current drive to your new, Apricorn, drive. I first encountered these when purchasing a new drive for a Fujitsu Lifebook. It uses a thin (9mm high) drive. Most generic laptop drives are 12-15 mm high. Apricorn sells many drives pacakged for particular makes. They also sell the Ez gig as convienent way to move the data between machines. That said it runs about $100 at CDW. Jack On Tuesday 29 May 2001 10:48, you wrote: > I'm getting a new, replacement harddrive for my laptop and I think I > remember seeing some kind of "thing" that allowed you to duplicate the data > from the old harddrive to the new one, so you don't have to re-install > everything. Does anyone know what the "thing" is called? And do they > actually work? > > thanks, > > Jacque > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dd-b at dd-b.net Tue May 29 23:30:32 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Servlets, php, cold-fusion [Was Volunteering,was: Computers anyone?] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Troy Johnson" writes: > David, > > > Regular Perl CGI programs are spawned by a web server for every > request made of them, and so have a Perl interpreter startup cost > and memory usage in addition to that of the web server > (httpd). Mod_perl makes the Perl interpreter part of the httpd > itself, so that startup costs are negated and memory usage is less > (compared to the full blown interpreter), but it also beefs up > _every_ httpd (could be compiled in or dynamically loaded, but the > effect is the same). Not a huge deal if you only server dynamic > content, but a waste if you serve up lots of images or static pages > and only a few dynamic pages. > It is probably because you _can_ be ignorant of mod_perl vs. Perl > CGI execution (mostly) that the diffence isn't obvious. The mod_perl > folks have taken pains to make sure that Perl CGIs will run under > mod_perl with little or no modification. So, are you saying that simply by installing mod_perl, the handling of perl CGIs on my site gets changed, and handled in the persistent module instead of as a normal CGI? That seems like an *awfully* big thing for me to have missed seeing in the docs, but stupider things have happened in my presence before! By the way, each of your paragraphs appears to have been sent as a single line; I had to rewrap to get decent-looking quoting. -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From jethro at freakzilla.com Wed May 30 00:02:46 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VERY OT: Solaris junk Message-ID: Hi... Ok, where the HELL does this thing hide /usr/ccs/bin? I managed to not install it and I can't find which package it's on to install it. GNU Binutils wants binutils to install itself, and I can't find a premade package... -Yaron -- From rpl at flashcom.net Wed May 30 02:09:34 2001 From: rpl at flashcom.net (bob) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] best way to chk if named is running and restart if not Message-ID: <001101c0e8d7$7bd95ff0$2e7d1acc@csi.net> RedHat 6.1 server. Running as DNS server. Named stops randomly. What is the best way to chk if named is running and to restart named if it is stopped? TIA bob From bdunnette at visi.com Wed May 30 02:37:10 2001 From: bdunnette at visi.com (bdunnette@visi.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mystery segfaults with K6 on FIC VA-503+? Message-ID: <200105300737.CAA27752@pooh.visi.com> Hey all... Been trying to install Debian on a system I pieced together from an old Zeos (remember them?) case, a 3 gig Quantum HD, and the aforementioned K6/VA-503+/64meg DIMM, which I bought recently from Gen'l Nano. Problem is, I get part way through the installation (the exact point varies) and then the installer segfaults. This doesn't seem to be distro-specific -- everything seems to segfault sooner or later. Sometimes I don't even get into the installer due to a kernel paging error or some such thing. Any idea why this is? Did I just get a bad mobo, or am I missing something? Thanks, Brian Dunnette From kdesigns at velceroisp.com Sat May 26 15:18:30 2001 From: kdesigns at velceroisp.com (Dwayne P. Kaelberer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] looking for Linux guru Message-ID: <1846720015626201830437@velceroisp.com> Hi All I'm looking for someone to talk to, and for help with trying to install Linux Mandrake .Booting from the mandrake floppy starts fine, but it doesn't see my scsi cdrom arrgg!. Also Dos doesn't see it either , I would like to get together with someone on the west side of the cities possibly, as soon as possible :) as i would really like to get this installed and see how Linux works and hehe, can't wait so long as to come to the next installfest. e-mail is : kdesigns@velceroisp.com Hope to hear from someone soon. Thanks Dwayne. From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Wed May 30 08:48:35 2001 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VERY OT: Solaris junk In-Reply-To: ; from jethro@freakzilla.com on Wed, May 30, 2001 at 12:02:46AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010530084834.A22480@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 12:02:46AM -0500, Yaron wrote: > Hi... > > Ok, where the HELL does this thing hide /usr/ccs/bin? I managed to not > install it and I can't find which package it's on to install it. > > GNU Binutils wants binutils to install itself, and I can't find a premade > package... > The packages I've got that install stuff in /usr/ccs/bin are: sadm# pkgchk -l -p /usr/ccs/bin Pathname: /usr/ccs/bin Type: directory Expected mode: 0755 Expected owner: bin Expected group: bin Referenced by the following packages: SUNWcsu SUNWsprot SUNWbtool SUNWbtoox SUNWtoo SUNWtoox Editted pkginfo for those packages: PKGINST: SUNWbtool NAME: CCS tools bundled with SunOS DESC: software development utilities, including ar, dis, dump, elfdump, lex, lorder, mcs, nm, prof, ranlib, rpcgen, size, strip, tsort, and yacc FILES: 41 installed pathnames PKGINST: SUNWbtoox NAME: CCS libraries bundled with SunOS (64-bit) DESC: 64-bit libraries for software development utilities, including lex and yacc FILES: 14 installed pathnames PKGINST: SUNWcsu NAME: Core Solaris, (Usr) DESC: core software for a specific instruction-set architecture FILES: 1292 installed pathnames PKGINST: SUNWsprot NAME: Solaris Bundled tools DESC: Solaris Bundled tools FILES: 54 installed pathnames PKGINST: SUNWtoo NAME: Programming Tools DESC: utilities for software development, including ld, ldd, od, and truss FILES: 37 installed pathnames PKGINST: SUNWtoox NAME: Programming Tools (64-bit) DESC: utilities for software development (64-bit) FILES: 28 installed pathnames -- Jim Crumley | crumley@fields.space.umn.edu | Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378 | From ben at nerp.net Wed May 30 08:49:36 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] best way to chk if named is running and restart if not In-Reply-To: <001101c0e8d7$7bd95ff0$2e7d1acc@csi.net> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- first thing I'd do is make sure you're running the latest named package.. there are several exploits out there for named, including DoS exploits that will simply crash named. Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Wed, 30 May 2001, bob wrote: > RedHat 6.1 server. Running as DNS server. Named stops randomly. > > What is the best way to chk if named is running and to restart named if it > is stopped? > > TIA > bob > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOxT6cstpDhsSpvgtAQEUcwP/UEbU86xTqRwDaH0j7es5jLc9laCup+TW 3bC1E7FWTn3SMuk6Ku9OPZ/m8VBrNZ6aJ2lArZMIR6l/CUs2PUjtzyppSrhBJAuR 8HQgFA8DTt3WGDu/+gKpTyN/qns203LQScqsVbY3IdVK87S8tX4U1MmPPw4uvhT9 eWtEzeuZQbI= =giIP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From zibby at ringworld.org Wed May 30 08:54:06 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mystery segfaults with K6 on FIC VA-503+? In-Reply-To: <200105300737.CAA27752@pooh.visi.com> Message-ID: The most common culprit is excess heat. Make sure you have the correct amount of thermal compound between your processor and heatsink/fan. I usually go with two case fans, one intake one exaust. (not counting the power supply fan.) For my full tower, I have 3 fans at work. Close your case, then see what happens. From jethro at freakzilla.com Wed May 30 08:58:38 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] best way to chk if named is running and restart if not In-Reply-To: <001101c0e8d7$7bd95ff0$2e7d1acc@csi.net> Message-ID: Hi, On Wed, 30 May 2001, bob wrote: > RedHat 6.1 server. Running as DNS server. Named stops randomly. > > What is the best way to chk if named is running and to restart named if it > is stopped? Do a 'ps auxw|grep named'? If it's not running, do '/etc/rc.d/init.d/named start'. I wrote a deamon once (in perl, do THAT in PHP! (; ) that goes around checking for other daemons and restarts them if they are down. Course it can't check for itself, so you also run it from cron just in case... silly, isn't it. -Yaron -- From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed May 30 07:07:14 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mystery segfaults with K6 on FIC VA-503+? In-Reply-To: <200105300737.CAA27752@pooh.visi.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 May 2001 bdunnette@visi.com wrote: > Hey all... > Been trying to install Debian on a system I pieced together from an old > Zeos (remember them?) case, a 3 gig Quantum HD, and the aforementioned > K6/VA-503+/64meg DIMM, which I bought recently from Gen'l Nano. Problem is, I get part way through the installation (the exact > point varies) and then the installer segfaults. This doesn't seem to be > distro-specific -- everything seems to segfault sooner or later. Sometimes > I don't even get into the installer due to a kernel paging error or some > such thing. Any idea why this is? Did I just get a bad mobo, or am I > missing something? I think if you have bad memory, you could also see this trouble. You might try pulling DIMMs (if you have more than one) and see if you can get it to work with less. Just a shot in the dim. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Wed May 30 09:08:47 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Servlets, php, cold-fusion [Was Volunteering,was:Computers anyone?] Message-ID: Yes, I will have to remember to do it myself. Or write in shorter paragraphs. GroupWise, the mailer I am forced to use, (and other Lock-In Mailers for that matter) does in some ways suck. This is but one of them. >>> dd-b@dd-b.net 05/29/01 11:30PM >>> By the way, each of your paragraphs appears to have been sent as a single line; I had to rewrap to get decent-looking quoting. From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Wed May 30 09:20:54 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Servlets, php, cold-fusion [Was Volunteering,was:Computers anyone?] Message-ID: >>> esper@sherohman.org 05/29/01 07:58PM >>> >>On Tue, May 29, 2001 at 05:49:20PM -0500, Troy Johnson wrote: >> >Just one error, relatively minor in scope, but fairly major in effect. I thank you for pointing it out! >> Mod_perl makes the Perl interpreter part of the httpd itself, so that >> startup costs are negated and memory usage is less (compared to the >> full blown interpreter), but it also beefs up _every_ httpd >This is half true. Yes, there's a full copy of the perl interpreter (and any >perl modules loaded in with PerlRequire or PerlModule, plus mod_perl itself >and any other apache modules that are configured) preloaded into every httpd. >However, Linux (like most, if not all, other modern OSes) is smart enough to >use copy-on-write semantics. Basically, what this means is that when a child >process is spawned, all of its pointers reference the parent's memory space >and the referenced data doesn't get copied until one process or the other >tries to modify it. I hadn't considered what Linux does to make things better, but I should have. When viewing my 'httpd's in 'top', is the memory shown there the actual amount of memory each daemon is using, or how much it would use if it wrote to the inherited memory space? >Since the actual executable code isn't allowed to be modified at runtime, >this means that all the httpds are sharing the same perl interpreter. Yes. >By comparison, using traditional CGI, each child spawns its own interpreter. >Since it's not inherited from the parent, sharing the memory doesn't come as >easily and any parts that aren't in .so libraries are likely to be duplicated >in each child. Would it be advantageous to encapsulate most of the Perl interpreter in an .so library so that traditional CGIs could share that memory? I seem to remember something about that sort of thing being available (but not recommended yet) when compiling Perl 5.6. >So you've got it backwards: Because mod_perl can share data more effectively >between httpd processes, it can easily end up taking less average memory >(and will take up no more peak memory) than traditional CGI scripting. Thank you once again! Troy From duncan at sodatrain.com Wed May 30 06:46:26 2001 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (duncan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] best way to chk if named is running and restart if not In-Reply-To: <001101c0e8d7$7bd95ff0$2e7d1acc@csi.net> Message-ID: cron job, every x minutes (i go 5) #!/bin/csh -f set pid=`/sbin/pidof named` if( $pid == "" ) then /usr/bin/logger -p info "restarting dns" /etc/rc.d/init.d/named stop sleep 5 /etc/rc.d/init.d/named start endif On Wed, 30 May 2001, bob wrote: > RedHat 6.1 server. Running as DNS server. Named stops randomly. > > What is the best way to chk if named is running and to restart named if it > is stopped? > > TIA > bob > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- || || || || || || duncan shannon duncan@sodatrain.com From florin at iucha.net Wed May 30 07:39:52 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mystery segfaults with K6 on FIC VA-503+? In-Reply-To: <200105300737.CAA27752@pooh.visi.com>; from bdunnette@visi.com on Wed, May 30, 2001 at 02:37:10AM -0500 References: <200105300737.CAA27752@pooh.visi.com> Message-ID: <20010530073952.A5834@beaver.iucha.org> On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 02:37:10AM -0500, bdunnette@visi.com wrote: > Hey all... > Been trying to install Debian on a system I pieced together from an old > Zeos (remember them?) case, a 3 gig Quantum HD, and the aforementioned > K6/VA-503+/64meg DIMM, which I bought recently from Gen'l Nano. Problem is, I get part way through the installation (the exact > point varies) and then the installer segfaults. This doesn't seem to be > distro-specific -- everything seems to segfault sooner or later. Sometimes > I don't even get into the installer due to a kernel paging error or some > such thing. Any idea why this is? Did I just get a bad mobo, or am I > missing something? Looks like a hardware problem. Probably memory or motherboard. Run memtest86 from sgi for a night to see if that catches any memory problem. I have used a K6-2/395 on a VA-503+ for a year and a half and then after a shutdown the system would'n come up. I didn't have any instability problems. When it worked it worked, when it died it died. 8-) florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From esper at sherohman.org Wed May 30 09:43:40 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] best way to chk if named is running and restart if not In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010530094339.A2360@sherohman.org> On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 08:58:38AM -0500, Yaron wrote: > Do a 'ps auxw|grep named'? Or use `ps -C named`. > I wrote a deamon once (in perl, do THAT in PHP! (; ) that goes around > checking for other daemons and restarts them if they are down. Course it > can't check for itself, so you also run it from cron just in case... > silly, isn't it. So write two daemons and have them watch each other. (Cue Robin Hood/Friar Tuck story at http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/The-Meaning-of-Hack.html It's about a third of the way down the page.) -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From blayer at qwest.net Wed May 30 09:47:44 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mystery segfaults with K6 on FIC VA-503+? In-Reply-To: <200105300737.CAA27752@pooh.visi.com> References: <200105300737.CAA27752@pooh.visi.com> Message-ID: <20010530094744.467a256a.blayer@qwest.net> Hello, Now here's my suggestion... On Wed, 30 May 2001 02:37:10 -0500 (CDT) bdunnette@visi.com wrote: > Hey all... > Been trying to install Debian on a system I pieced together from an old > Zeos (remember them?) case, a 3 gig Quantum HD, and the aforementioned > K6/VA-503+/64meg DIMM, which I bought recently from Gen'l Nano. Problem is, I get part way through the installation (the exact > point varies) and then the installer segfaults. Enter the BIOS setup and disable the External Cache, see if that fixes it. Also, fwiw, I've never been able to overclock a K6 cpu either on a FIC VA-503 or a Tyan S1590S. -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From esper at sherohman.org Wed May 30 09:51:06 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Servlets, php, cold-fusion [Was Volunteering,was:Computers anyone?] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010530095105.B2360@sherohman.org> On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 09:20:54AM -0500, Troy Johnson wrote: > I hadn't considered what Linux does to make things better, but I should have. > When viewing my 'httpd's in 'top', is the memory shown there the actual amount > of memory each daemon is using, or how much it would use if it wrote to the > inherited memory space? ps displays the memory uniquely allocated to a process in the RSS column. I think that shared memory usage is displayed under VSZ in `ps u`, which is the sum of the TRS and DRS columns in `ps v`, but I'm not positive about these. Pointers to documentation of what all the column headings in ps stand for and their significance, anyone? > Would it be advantageous to encapsulate most of the Perl interpreter in an > .so library so that traditional CGIs could share that memory? I seem to > remember something about that sort of thing being available (but not > recommended yet) when compiling Perl 5.6. Possibly, but if it's not recommended, there must be some (at least potential) problems with doing so. -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Wed May 30 07:48:04 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VERY OT: Solaris junk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010530074804.3ecf1efd.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Yaron wrote: > > Hi... > > Ok, where the HELL does this thing hide /usr/ccs/bin? I managed to not > install it and I can't find which package it's on to install it. > > GNU Binutils wants binutils to install itself, and I can't find a > premade > package... If you're feeling lucky, Sunfreeware has a binutils package for Solaris 2.5. I recently used that package on Solaris 2.6 to build a new binutils. Then I re-built binutils using the new binutils. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ System Error Type 15: / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ Demonic Posession. Boo. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Wed May 30 07:56:12 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mystery segfaults with K6 on FIC VA-503+? In-Reply-To: <200105300737.CAA27752@pooh.visi.com> References: <200105300737.CAA27752@pooh.visi.com> Message-ID: <20010530075612.7d6879a9.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> bdunnette@visi.com wrote: > > Hey all... > Been trying to install Debian on a system I pieced together from an old > Zeos (remember them?) case, a 3 gig Quantum HD, and the aforementioned > K6/VA-503+/64meg DIMM, which I bought recently from Gen'l Nano. Problem > is, I get part way through the installation (the exact > point varies) and then the installer segfaults. This doesn't seem to be > distro-specific -- everything seems to segfault sooner or later. > Sometimes > I don't even get into the installer due to a kernel paging error or some > such thing. Any idea why this is? Did I just get a bad mobo, or am I > missing something? Hey, that's my wonderful *cough* motherboard! Just don't try running IDE DMA and/or Linux 2.4 and things should be okay. I suspect that you probably have bad memory. My family has seen three of these motherboards, and we had the kernel paging error on the board we put in our cable modem gateway. Replacing the memory made it more stable. Also take a look at FIC's website to see if you can update the BIOS. I think the newest version is JE439 or something. http://www.fica.com/ -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ He's dim, Jed / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From tanner at real-time.com Wed May 30 10:15:24 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] looking for Linux guru In-Reply-To: <1846720015626201830437@velceroisp.com>; from kdesigns@velceroisp.com on Sat, May 26, 2001 at 04:18:30PM -0400 References: <1846720015626201830437@velceroisp.com> Message-ID: <20010530101524.T21908@real-time.com> Quoting Dwayne P. Kaelberer (kdesigns@velceroisp.com): > Hi All > I'm looking for someone to talk to, and for help with trying to install > Linux Mandrake .Booting from the mandrake floppy starts fine, but it > doesn't see my scsi cdrom arrgg!. Also Dos doesn't see it either , I would > like to get together with someone on the west side of the cities possibly, > as soon as possible :) as i would really like to get this installed and see > how Linux works and hehe, can't wait so long as to come to the next > installfest. > e-mail is : kdesigns@velceroisp.com Come to Saturdays meeting. Can you wait 3 days? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From dd-b at dd-b.net Wed May 30 10:57:09 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Servlets, php, cold-fusion [Was Volunteering,was:Computers anyone?] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Troy Johnson" writes: > >By comparison, using traditional CGI, each child spawns its own interpreter. > >Since it's not inherited from the parent, sharing the memory doesn't come as > >easily and any parts that aren't in .so libraries are likely to be duplicated > >in each child. > > Would it be advantageous to encapsulate most of the Perl interpreter in an > .so library so that traditional CGIs could share that memory? I seem to > remember something about that sort of thing being available (but not > recommended yet) when compiling Perl 5.6. Actually, copy-on-write should also catch the shared parts of the separate interpreters in separate CGI's and keep them shared. There are still issues of per-interpreter writable memory that isn't shared, and the startup time cost, of course. Copy-on-write is cool; one of the things we TOPS-20 partisans were mad at the VMS group about, at DEC back when, was that VMS didn't use copy-on-write, when TOPS-20 had demonstrated for years how well it worked. -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed May 30 11:06:08 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Wright County Auction Message-ID: For those of you who feel like making the trek out to Buffalo, MN you might want to know about the annual Wright County government auction. Saturday June 9, 10:00 AM. Lots of hardware to be had by linux geeks. Somewhere between 35-40 486/low end pentium boxen, A few 486 laptops, a nice supply of monitors also. They usually go pretty cheap ($20-$30). I think this year we're selling a Sparc 5, I thought we were selling it last year but we didn't. So, if anyone's feeling a need for excess hardware you might want to check it out. It's at the Wright County Public Works building, approx 1 mile North of the Hwy 25 an 55 intersection on Hwy 25. -Brian From PCZeilon at att.net Wed May 30 11:34:08 2001 From: PCZeilon at att.net (Carl & Paula Zeilon) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Linux Newbie - Help Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010530113305.00adb700@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> >>Thanks for the suggestions. Here's what I can tell you: > >The system did operate perfectly for some time >Creating a new user doesn't work - same error message >I can log-in users in console mode. The error occurs when trying to use >KDE or Gnome. >I'm not 100% sure it was KPPP that caused this but I did virtually no >customizing (I don't know how) > >I can find hardly any of the files that Zibby refered me to: > >I have no /etc/hosts nor /etc/hostname >I can find only one error log. That is home/carl/.xsession-error It >doesn't look to contain any info that would be helpful in this situation. > >Maybe I should just reinstall & try again being VERY careful? > >What I really want to do is get Tuxracer to work. He works on my windows >drive but not in Linux. This is at the very least immoral if not illegal! From zibby at ringworld.org Wed May 30 11:49:32 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Linux Newbie - Help In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010530113305.00adb700@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: If you don't have /etc/hosts or /etc/hostname that indicates to me that something in your install went wrong. This would also cause problems for KDE and GNOME. You can recreate them easily enough. /etc/hosts should look something like this: 127.0.0.1 hostname localhost If you have a static ip you should define that as well. hosts would look something like this in that case: 127.0.0.1 localhost 209.98.65.241 destiny.ringworld.org destiny www /etc/hostname is simply the name of your box. The hostname gives your box personality, so choose wisely. Murphy's law dictates that pos, crash, burn, etc. don't make good hostnames. By the same law, nor do unbreakable, untouchable, unhackable... Anyway, that's a start to correcting your problems. GNOME and KDE need to know what localhost is and what ip hostname goes to or they break nicely. If it was me, I wouldn't reinstall. I'd roll up my sleaves and fix it. You're not me, and may find it easier to reinstall. I suggest you roll up your sleaves and fix it, you'll learn more faster. ;) | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From sraun at fireopal.org Wed May 30 11:56:17 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Wright County Auction In-Reply-To: ; from lxy@cloudnet.com on Wed, May 30, 2001 at 11:06:08AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010530115617.A16547@iaxs.net> On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 11:06:08AM -0500, Brian wrote: > For those of you who feel like making the trek out to Buffalo, MN you > might want to know about the annual Wright County government > auction. Saturday June 9, 10:00 AM. Lots of hardware to be had by linux > geeks. Somewhere between 35-40 486/low end pentium boxen, A few 486 > laptops, a nice supply of monitors also. They usually go pretty cheap > ($20-$30). I think this year we're selling a Sparc 5, I thought we were > selling it last year but we didn't. > > So, if anyone's feeling a need for excess hardware you might want to check > it out. It's at the Wright County Public Works building, approx 1 mile > North of the Hwy 25 an 55 intersection on Hwy 25. Any idea how long it's likely to run? -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From florin at iucha.net Wed May 30 12:31:02 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Linux Newbie - Help In-Reply-To: ; from zibby@ringworld.org on Wed, May 30, 2001 at 11:49:32AM -0500 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010530113305.00adb700@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <20010530123102.A25015@beaver.iucha.org> On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 11:49:32AM -0500, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > If you don't have /etc/hosts or /etc/hostname that indicates to me that > something in your install went wrong. This would also cause problems for > KDE and GNOME. > > You can recreate them easily enough. /etc/hosts should look something like > this: > > 127.0.0.1 hostname localhost > > If you have a static ip you should define that as well. hosts would look > something like this in that case: > > 127.0.0.1 localhost > 209.98.65.241 destiny.ringworld.org destiny www > > /etc/hostname is simply the name of your box. The hostname gives > your box personality, so choose wisely. Murphy's law dictates that pos, > crash, burn, etc. don't make good hostnames. By the same law, nor do > unbreakable, untouchable, unhackable... > > Anyway, that's a start to correcting your problems. GNOME and KDE need to > know what localhost is and what ip hostname goes to or they break nicely. > > If it was me, I wouldn't reinstall. I'd roll up my sleaves and fix it. > You're not me, and may find it easier to reinstall. I suggest you roll up > your sleaves and fix it, you'll learn more faster. ;) If it was me, I wouldn't bother to reinstall. If files in /etc are missing, then what else is missing? Or only half installed? If you KNOW that eveything in /var is fine you could try a "rpm -Va" which will check all packages. But again, you might spend more hours chasing this than doing a clean install. florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed May 30 12:37:23 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Wright County Auction In-Reply-To: <20010530115617.A16547@iaxs.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 May 2001, Scott Raun wrote: > Any idea how long it's likely to run? Well, it's an auction. Generally it runs til noon or so, with the computer stuff being towards the end. There's other stuff too, like de-commisioned cop cars and confiscated stuff from drug busts and the like. Occasionally you'll find better computers that have been seized than what our department throws out, but it's not common. -Brian From sraun at fireopal.org Wed May 30 13:13:17 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Wright County Auction In-Reply-To: ; from lxy@cloudnet.com on Wed, May 30, 2001 at 12:37:23PM -0500 References: <20010530115617.A16547@iaxs.net> Message-ID: <20010530131317.B17204@iaxs.net> On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 12:37:23PM -0500, Brian wrote: > On Wed, 30 May 2001, Scott Raun wrote: > > > Any idea how long it's likely to run? > > Well, it's an auction. Generally it runs til noon or so, with the > computer stuff being towards the end. There's other stuff too, like > de-commisioned cop cars and confiscated stuff from drug busts and the > like. Occasionally you'll find better computers that have been seized > than what our department throws out, but it's not common. That's a good enough answer - I just wanted to know if this was likely to be a couple - three hours, or all day. -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Wed May 30 13:45:32 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Wright County Auction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: So ___SIG___ On Wed, 30 May 2001, Brian wrote: > For those of you who feel like making the trek out to Buffalo, MN you > might want to know about the annual Wright County government > auction. Saturday June 9, 10:00 AM. Lots of hardware to be had by linux > geeks. Somewhere between 35-40 486/low end pentium boxen, A few 486 > laptops, a nice supply of monitors also. They usually go pretty cheap > ($20-$30). I think this year we're selling a Sparc 5, I thought we were > selling it last year but we didn't. > > So, if anyone's feeling a need for excess hardware you might want to check > it out. It's at the Wright County Public Works building, approx 1 mile > North of the Hwy 25 an 55 intersection on Hwy 25. > > -Brian > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Wed May 30 13:47:23 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Servlets, php, cold-fusion [Was Volunteering,was:Computers anyone?] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ack. I *meant* to respond to this e-mail instead. So does anyone know if BSD do the same thing? I've got a teeny box I wanted to run some mod_perl stuff on OpenBSD (yeah, I know not this list. I'm just asking once) Josh ___SIG___ On 30 May 2001, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > "Troy Johnson" writes: > > > >By comparison, using traditional CGI, each child spawns its own interpreter. > > >Since it's not inherited from the parent, sharing the memory doesn't come as > > >easily and any parts that aren't in .so libraries are likely to be duplicated > > >in each child. > > > > Would it be advantageous to encapsulate most of the Perl interpreter in an > > .so library so that traditional CGIs could share that memory? I seem to > > remember something about that sort of thing being available (but not > > recommended yet) when compiling Perl 5.6. > > Actually, copy-on-write should also catch the shared parts of the > separate interpreters in separate CGI's and keep them shared. There > are still issues of per-interpreter writable memory that isn't shared, > and the startup time cost, of course. > > Copy-on-write is cool; one of the things we TOPS-20 partisans were mad > at the VMS group about, at DEC back when, was that VMS didn't use > copy-on-write, when TOPS-20 had demonstrated for years how well it > worked. > -- > David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net > SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ > Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jethro at yaron.org Wed May 30 14:55:13 2001 From: jethro at yaron.org (jethro@yaron.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSH not authenticating Message-ID: <991252513.3b1550219e2ba@dragon> Hey, Ok, what reasons can you guys think of for sshd not letting me log on to one of my systems? It's running debian/woody. This happens both when I apt-get ssh, and when I compile/install it manually (different versions of SSH, too). I can ssh out just fine, but ssh'ing in just says "Permission denied" and does not authenticate the password. I've had this happen on Red Hat machines when ssh didn't install the pam config file, but it looks like it is there now. TIA, -Yaron -- From jethro at yaron.org Wed May 30 15:04:07 2001 From: jethro at yaron.org (jethro@yaron.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] best way to chk if named is running and restart if not In-Reply-To: <20010530094339.A2360@sherohman.org> References: <20010530094339.A2360@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <991253047.3b155237232de@dragon> Hi, Quoting Dave Sherohman : > So write two daemons and have them watch each other. I thought about that; and actually you CAN run this daemon twice and have each watch each other. It'll read whatever config file you supply on commandline, set it's process name to something specific, and thus they won't kill themselves and restart themselves etc. I preferred to run it from cron every 5 minutes, but there's no reason not to do it the other way. -Yaron -- From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Wed May 30 15:15:33 2001 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSH not authenticating In-Reply-To: <991252513.3b1550219e2ba@dragon>; from jethro@yaron.org on Wed, May 30, 2001 at 02:55:13PM -0500 References: <991252513.3b1550219e2ba@dragon> Message-ID: <20010530151531.A25304@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 02:55:13PM -0500, jethro@yaron.org wrote: > > > I can ssh out just fine, but ssh'ing in just says "Permission denied" and does > not authenticate the password. I've had this happen on Red Hat machines when > ssh didn't install the pam config file, but it looks like it is there now. Did you try shutting down sshd, and running sshd in debug/verbose (whichever its called) in an xterm? That usually gives a better info on where ssh is stopping. Also run the ingoing ssh process debug/verbose. I doubt this is it, but are you ssh'ing in as root? I think the default config files don't allow that anymore. -- Jim Crumley | crumley@fields.space.umn.edu | Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378 | From florin at iucha.net Wed May 30 15:28:16 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSH not authenticating In-Reply-To: <991252513.3b1550219e2ba@dragon>; from jethro@yaron.org on Wed, May 30, 2001 at 02:55:13PM -0500 References: <991252513.3b1550219e2ba@dragon> Message-ID: <20010530152815.A7815@beaver.iucha.org> On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 02:55:13PM -0500, jethro@yaron.org wrote: > Hey, > > Ok, what reasons can you guys think of for sshd not letting me log on to one of > my systems? It's running debian/woody. This happens both when I apt-get ssh, > and when I compile/install it manually (different versions of SSH, too). > > I can ssh out just fine, but ssh'ing in just says "Permission denied" and does > not authenticate the password. I've had this happen on Red Hat machines when > ssh didn't install the pam config file, but it looks like it is there now. Do you use tcp_wrappers? Add "sshd: ..." in your hosts.allow. florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From zibby at ringworld.org Wed May 30 16:19:04 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kerberos through firewall Message-ID: I've been experimenting with getting a linux mail server (on a public IP) to talk to a Kerberos realm (behind the firewall on a private IP) using some iptables NAT tricks. So far I haven't had much success. My iptables rules look something like this: iptables -A INPUT --mac-source ! AA:BB:CC:DD:EE:FF -p udp -p 88 -i eth1 -j DENY iptables -A PREROUTING -t nat -p udp -m mac --mac-source AA:BB:CC:DD:EE:FF --dport 88 -j DNAT --to XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX:88 So far I've come up with a few reasons why it isn't working: a> I'm totally on the wrong path and need to be kicked down a new one. b> firewall isn't getting the mac address (the firewall and mail server are both on the same public subnet) c> I have to allow all kerberos traffic, then deny all kerberos traffic not coming from the mac address of the mail server. d> iptables is mangling the packets so the kdc thinks they're coming from the firewall, not the mail server. e> the default forward policy isn't forwarding the upd kerberos traffic to the mail server. (I'm pretty sure it should be however.) Anyone done something similar or have any suggestions? This is my learn iptables project, and I'm still doing a bit of fumbling for the light switch. :) | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From tanner at real-time.com Wed May 30 16:23:09 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kerberos through firewall In-Reply-To: ; from zibby@ringworld.org on Wed, May 30, 2001 at 04:19:04PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010530162309.Q2457@real-time.com> Quoting Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) (zibby@ringworld.org): > I've been experimenting with getting a linux mail server (on a public IP) > to talk to a Kerberos realm (behind the firewall on a private IP) using > some iptables NAT tricks. So far I haven't had much success. Since NAT messes with the packet, I pretty sure kerberos is not going to like it. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From jima at gimp.damnation.net Wed May 30 17:15:11 2001 From: jima at gimp.damnation.net (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SSH not authenticating In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010530170529.02bddd80@mail.eleetomatic.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 May 2001, jethro@yaron.org wrote: > Ok, what reasons can you guys think of for sshd not letting me log on to > one of > my systems? It's running debian/woody. This happens both when I apt-get ssh, > and when I compile/install it manually (different versions of SSH, too). > > I can ssh out just fine, but ssh'ing in just says "Permission denied" and does > not authenticate the password. I've had this happen on Red Hat machines when > ssh didn't install the pam config file, but it looks like it is there now. Does Debian use PAM? Either way, I have a possible solution. If it does, add --with-pam to the ./configure options; if not, try --with-md5-passwords (I assume you're using them). The configure script doesn't seem to detect either. (I could swear it detected PAM support in earlier versions.) I've run into this problem on Redhat and Slackware boxes, respectively. Hope this helps. Jima From tanner at real-time.com Wed May 30 17:30:10 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How much does MS pay these guys? Message-ID: <20010530173010.C13714@real-time.com> http://www.computerworld.com/cwi/story/0,1199,NAV47-68-86-1721_STO60851,00.html What is with all the negative press on linux lately? MS paying people for editorials? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From mend0070 at umn.edu Wed May 30 18:11:42 2001 From: mend0070 at umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How much does MS pay these guys? Message-ID: <200105302311.SAA14894@www5> On or about 30 May 2001, Bob Tanner is alleged to have said: > What is with all the negative press on linux lately? Dunno, kinda seems like it. On the other hand, Thomas Jefferson said "I do not take a newspaper nor read one more than twice a month and I am infinitely the happier for it." :) > MS paying people for editorials? Frankly, I don't have as big a problem with M$ and exploitive business practices (and I have a big one there) as I do with them and content / distribution channels / net access. The Eastern bloc countries didn't have as firm a foundation for censorship in place, ever. There's a fine line between sales propaganda and "let's control what people think" when you're as large and visible as they are. One thing, though. The writer says "Many in IT feel that Linux is the heir to Microsoft's 32-bit Windows offerings and will soon surpass Windows in volume shipments, but I'm not as sanguine about Linux's prospects for mainstream business, except in specific cases." I don't know what he means by "mainstream business." I tend to read that "I'm not as sanguine about Linux's prospects for being used by people who don't really *need* a computer to do their job, except in cases where they do." From nate at techie.com Wed May 30 19:03:22 2001 From: nate at techie.com (Nate Straz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How much does MS pay these guys? In-Reply-To: <20010530173010.C13714@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Wed, May 30, 2001 at 05:30:10PM -0500 References: <20010530173010.C13714@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010530190322.A17549@candle.rawstew> On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 05:30:10PM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote: > What is with all the negative press on linux lately? MS is probably getting more nervous about Linux so they feel the need to send out more FUD. I don't know what crap he's trying to throw out by saying, "Many in IT feel that Linux is the heir to Microsoft's 32-bit Windows offerings..." Does he think that when Intel finally gets out a 64-bit chip that Win64 is going to be the default and Linux won't have a chance? Given that Windows has the applications base, I think that Linux and Windows will be starting from the same point when Itanium ships. It will all depend on which one stabilizes on the platform first. My money is on Linux. > MS paying people for editorials? IMNSHO, MS is paying people for entire magazines. I used to read PC/Computing until I got so sick of the MS worshiping I couldn't even look at the cover anymore. Nate From veldy at veldy.net Wed May 30 19:05:24 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How much does MS pay these guys? References: <20010530173010.C13714@real-time.com> Message-ID: <006e01c0e965$643a3980$0101a8c0@cascade> This guy totally misses the idea of new development. In this area, Linux is a viable alternative to Windows. It is exactly how Windows got where it is today. It became a viable alternative to the stodgy old Mainframe. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Tanner" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 5:30 PM Subject: [TCLUG] How much does MS pay these guys? > http://www.computerworld.com/cwi/story/0,1199,NAV47-68-86-1721_STO60851,00.h tml > > What is with all the negative press on linux lately? > > MS paying people for editorials? > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From veldy at veldy.net Wed May 30 19:07:37 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How much does MS pay these guys? References: <20010530173010.C13714@real-time.com> <20010530190322.A17549@candle.rawstew> Message-ID: <007701c0e965$b32f8ae0$0101a8c0@cascade> It is just one guy who likes Windows. No big deal. For pure development, there is not an easier platform to develop for. This is both a result of and a support of Microsoft's success. Ease of development is what will make the future of Linux IMHO. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nate Straz" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 7:03 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How much does MS pay these guys? > On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 05:30:10PM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote: > > What is with all the negative press on linux lately? > > MS is probably getting more nervous about Linux so they feel the need to > send out more FUD. I don't know what crap he's trying to throw out by > saying, "Many in IT feel that Linux is the heir to Microsoft's 32-bit > Windows offerings..." Does he think that when Intel finally gets out a > 64-bit chip that Win64 is going to be the default and Linux won't have a > chance? Given that Windows has the applications base, I think that > Linux and Windows will be starting from the same point when Itanium > ships. It will all depend on which one stabilizes on the platform > first. My money is on Linux. > > > MS paying people for editorials? > > IMNSHO, MS is paying people for entire magazines. I used to read > PC/Computing until I got so sick of the MS worshiping I couldn't even > look at the cover anymore. > > Nate > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jspinti at mn.rr.com Wed May 30 19:13:03 2001 From: jspinti at mn.rr.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How much does MS pay these guys? In-Reply-To: <20010530173010.C13714@real-time.com> References: <20010530173010.C13714@real-time.com> Message-ID: <01053019130300.01480@pii400> The guy worked for Gartner, what do you expect. They have been nay-saying Linux since the beginning. On Wednesday 30 May 2001 17:30, you wrote: > http://www.computerworld.com/cwi/story/0,1199,NAV47-68-86-1721_STO60851,00. >html > > What is with all the negative press on linux lately? > > MS paying people for editorials? -- James Spinti jspinti@mn.rr.com From wilson at visi.com Wed May 30 19:22:23 2001 From: wilson at visi.com (Timothy Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] laser printer recommendation Message-ID: Hey everyone, I'm finally getting around to buying a laser printer for home. I never print color pictures, so I don't need an inkjet for anything. Of course, I need it to be good, fast, and cheap. :-) (What do you mean I can only pick two?) Is is worth the money to get something that speaks PS natively? If not, I imagine there are quite a few that would be OK. Any recommendations? Both PS and non-PS. -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.org W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From veldy at veldy.net Wed May 30 19:40:37 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] laser printer recommendation References: Message-ID: <00a601c0e96a$4fd24780$0101a8c0@cascade> I bought the Lexmark Optra E312L. I think the thing is absolutely great. It is fast and it will even print 1200dpi (black only of course). I have yet to try it at 1200dpi though. It is USB too! They sell it at Best Buy. I bought it for $299. Only catch is that I have not found any way to print using Linux or FreeBSD yet. I have not tried very hard either. I know the 312 will print under *NIX, but the 312L is problematic. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Timothy Wilson" To: "TCLUG" Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 7:22 PM Subject: [TCLUG] laser printer recommendation > Hey everyone, > > I'm finally getting around to buying a laser printer for home. I never print > color pictures, so I don't need an inkjet for anything. Of course, I need it > to be good, fast, and cheap. :-) (What do you mean I can only pick two?) > > Is is worth the money to get something that speaks PS natively? If not, I > imagine there are quite a few that would be OK. > > Any recommendations? Both PS and non-PS. > > -Tim > > -- > Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: > Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.org > W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org > wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From ben at nerp.net Wed May 30 19:55:31 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] laser printer recommendation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- my roomie got a xerox P12, it's basicaly the same specs as an HP laserjet 2100, but a lot cheaper.. i think it runs for around $500. Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Wed, 30 May 2001, Timothy Wilson wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I'm finally getting around to buying a laser printer for home. I never print > color pictures, so I don't need an inkjet for anything. Of course, I need it > to be good, fast, and cheap. :-) (What do you mean I can only pick two?) > > Is is worth the money to get something that speaks PS natively? If not, I > imagine there are quite a few that would be OK. > > Any recommendations? Both PS and non-PS. > > -Tim > > -- > Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: > Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.org > W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org > wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOxWWhMtpDhsSpvgtAQHOhgP/b6j121aJIFXgM24UNm3PEbR9K5RgPeOx QUBibi/RS9+60UEk5JOBEo/Y2k6wxWLv+SmaWFnyiH2GWErtP8c3bAiTowNFPNsY oPU50tp7tajX/bn2X97vuQHBFWD+jnJo/TkGHd7vu/E/O7uvPyBRdjWZceKPIV7p 5LufgeQgCYs= =iOrg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed May 30 20:13:05 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] laser printer recommendation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 May 2001, Timothy Wilson wrote: > I'm finally getting around to buying a laser printer for home. I never print > color pictures, so I don't need an inkjet for anything. Of course, I need it > to be good, fast, and cheap. :-) (What do you mean I can only pick two?) > > Is is worth the money to get something that speaks PS natively? If not, I > imagine there are quite a few that would be OK. > > Any recommendations? Both PS and non-PS. I cheaped out, ended up with a used Lexmark ($40.00!). My experience is that if you use magicfilter, anything that can be seen as a LJII is sufficient. If you were looking for something heavier, your needs would already be telling you what to get, eh? Cheers, Phil -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed May 30 20:13:05 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] laser printer recommendation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 May 2001, Timothy Wilson wrote: > I'm finally getting around to buying a laser printer for home. I never print > color pictures, so I don't need an inkjet for anything. Of course, I need it > to be good, fast, and cheap. :-) (What do you mean I can only pick two?) > > Is is worth the money to get something that speaks PS natively? If not, I > imagine there are quite a few that would be OK. > > Any recommendations? Both PS and non-PS. I cheaped out, ended up with a used Lexmark ($40.00!). My experience is that if you use magicfilter, anything that can be seen as a LJII is sufficient. If you were looking for something heavier, your needs would already be telling you what to get, eh? Cheers, Phil -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From chewie at wookimus.net Wed May 30 20:32:40 2001 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Servlets, php, cold-fusion [Was Volunteering, was: Computers anyone?] In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 27 May 2001 18:37:16 CDT." <20010527183716.B27707@real-time.com> References: <3B0EAED8.67D82C8@securecomputing.com> <20010527183716.B27707@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010531013240.6AB67183AD@skuld.wk> Quoting David Dyer-Bennet (dd-b@dd-b.net): > What's servlet performance like? As you say, not relative to C; how > about relative to Perl, or PHP? Or Cold Fusion? Comparing the two > on the same platform of course. Having recently worked in Perl, PHP, and Java, I can tell you that they each have their advantages and disadvantages. As a developer, I usually key in on those aspects more so than performance differences on Apache between mod_perl, mod_java, mod_ruby, and mod_php. Essentially, their goals are the same: use one interpretor per httpd, reduce resource overhead, increase performance. What you use as a development language depends upon your need, your knowledge base, your resources, and ultimately, your preferences. Rather, it depends largely upon your customers' needs, resources, and preferences. Regardless, good programming methodology is the key to an efficient and fast web-based application. Personally, I like to separate application "layers" by their scope, and highly support blackbox programming. Still, I've recently seen the advantage to a more "ad hoc" approach. Java application servers such as Enhydra are perfect examples of a "black-box" approach to web-application design. Whereas PHP, JSP, ASP, and ColdFusion are perfect examples of an ad hoc, embedded approach to web-application design. Perl is somewhere in the middle; it can function like Java or it can function like PHP. Which will perform better? Depends on the application. For quick and dirty database reports, the embedded approach can be very fast to develop, but if the application needs to scale, you probably want to separate the database layer from the presentation layer a bit more. Pool your connections, result sets, and share data. There are ways to do this with just about any of the aforementioned technologies. What do you want to get your hands dirty with? Whatever you do go with, just remember that blackbox == your saving grace if you must scale things later... -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Key fingerprint = B4AB D627 9CBD 687E 7A31 1950 0CC7 0B18 206C 5AFD From nate at techie.com Wed May 30 20:45:28 2001 From: nate at techie.com (Nate Straz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] laser printer recommendation In-Reply-To: ; from wilson@visi.com on Wed, May 30, 2001 at 07:22:23PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010530204528.B18184@candle.rawstew> On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 07:22:23PM -0500, Timothy Wilson wrote: > I'm finally getting around to buying a laser printer for home. I never print > color pictures, so I don't need an inkjet for anything. Of course, I need it > to be good, fast, and cheap. :-) (What do you mean I can only pick two?) I ended up with a Brother HL-1240. I can't say it's great, but I don't do a lot of printing. I just wanted to have a laser printer. :) My best advice is to look at linuxprinting.org and use that as a guide when you start looking at printer reviews. This site has a very good database of what printers work and how to get them working. Nate From nate at techie.com Wed May 30 20:45:28 2001 From: nate at techie.com (Nate Straz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] laser printer recommendation In-Reply-To: ; from wilson@visi.com on Wed, May 30, 2001 at 07:22:23PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010530204528.B18184@candle.rawstew> On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 07:22:23PM -0500, Timothy Wilson wrote: > I'm finally getting around to buying a laser printer for home. I never print > color pictures, so I don't need an inkjet for anything. Of course, I need it > to be good, fast, and cheap. :-) (What do you mean I can only pick two?) I ended up with a Brother HL-1240. I can't say it's great, but I don't do a lot of printing. I just wanted to have a laser printer. :) My best advice is to look at linuxprinting.org and use that as a guide when you start looking at printer reviews. This site has a very good database of what printers work and how to get them working. Nate From veldy at veldy.net Wed May 30 20:54:46 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] laser printer recommendation References: <20010530204528.B18184@candle.rawstew> Message-ID: <00db01c0e974$ab983110$0101a8c0@cascade> I just went to that site and looked up my printer, the Lexmark 312L. I just found out via instructions on that site that my printer is actually a 312 and not a 312L, in spite of the label printed on the printer. Things look much better for use with *NIX now! Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nate Straz" To: Cc: "TCLUG" Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 8:45 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] laser printer recommendation > On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 07:22:23PM -0500, Timothy Wilson wrote: > > I'm finally getting around to buying a laser printer for home. I never print > > color pictures, so I don't need an inkjet for anything. Of course, I need it > > to be good, fast, and cheap. :-) (What do you mean I can only pick two?) > > I ended up with a Brother HL-1240. I can't say it's great, but I don't > do a lot of printing. I just wanted to have a laser printer. :) > > My best advice is to look at linuxprinting.org and use that as a guide > when you start looking at printer reviews. This site has a very good > database of what printers work and how to get them working. > > Nate > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From drake at lemongecko.myip.org Wed May 30 20:07:04 2001 From: drake at lemongecko.myip.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] laser printer recommendation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have an HP Laserjet 1100. It's fairly cheap (~$300) and works like a charm. It even has an envelope slot (which, alas, only works with MS Word...haven't gotten StarOffice to do it yet). Dan From sgrobe at mn.rr.com Wed May 30 21:18:56 2001 From: sgrobe at mn.rr.com (Steve) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How much does MS pay these guys? References: <20010530173010.C13714@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B15AA10.9070106@mn.rr.com> Bob Tanner wrote: > http://www.computerworld.com/cwi/story/0,1199,NAV47-68-86-1721_STO60851,00.html > MS paying people for editorials? Ya sure you betcha, probably millions every year in advertising. And no one would put it past MS to pull a few hundred thousand $ in advertising from a mag for publishing something they didn't like. I don't think this kind of article really hurts Linux. After the last couple years of good press most of the people I know look up to Linux. They see it as something that is more stable but just not as user friendly. The user friendly issue is getting better with every release and soon it won't be nearly the big deal it was just a couple of years ago. I had one of the sales guys at work come up to me the other day asking if the webmail server was down because he couldn't get in that morning to check mail before work. I told him it wasn't and that I had checked my mail before coming in and it worked fine. His response "Yea but you are using Linux at home and that always works." He didn't understand that the OS I was using at home had nothing to do with it, but he sees Linux as being better than Windows. I hear things like this a lot and not just from geeks. Public perception is changing direction slowly, much like a steamroller. I would hate to be the one standing in front of the steamroller trying to stop it. SG, O.S.D. -- Yadda, yadda, yadda From trammell at trammell.dyndns.org Wed May 30 20:58:14 2001 From: trammell at trammell.dyndns.org (John Joseph Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] laser printer recommendation In-Reply-To: ; from wilson@visi.com on Wed, May 30, 2001 at 07:22:23PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010530205814.A15379@mn.rr.com> On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 07:22:23PM -0500, Timothy Wilson wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I'm finally getting around to buying a laser printer for home. > I never print color pictures, so I don't need an inkjet for > anything. Of course, I need it to be good, fast, and cheap. :-) Not laser, but I got a used HP Deskjet 500 for $10 at Materials Processing. Plus $30 for a new cartridge. :-) -- To think intelligently about copyrights, patents or trademarks, you must think about them separately. The first step is declining to lump them together as "intellectual property". - Richard Stallman From sgrobe at mn.rr.com Wed May 30 21:48:11 2001 From: sgrobe at mn.rr.com (Steve) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] laser printer recommendation References: Message-ID: <3B15B0EB.3000703@mn.rr.com> Ditto. My 1100 works great. Dan Drake wrote: > I have an HP Laserjet 1100. It's fairly cheap (~$300) and works like a > charm. It even has an envelope slot (which, alas, only works with MS > Word...haven't gotten StarOffice to do it yet). > > Dan > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Yadda, yadda, yadda From rpl at flashcom.net Wed May 30 22:50:25 2001 From: rpl at flashcom.net (bob) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] setting time from time server References: <200105310248.f4V2m2K15789@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <000f01c0e984$d3fc5c20$cd8be23f@csi.net> RH 6.1 server, is off about 1 hr 10 minutes.. how does one set time ? preferably via a time server. sorry for such a simple question.. have looked various places.. TIA bob From tanner at real-time.com Wed May 30 22:57:11 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] setting time from time server In-Reply-To: <000f01c0e984$d3fc5c20$cd8be23f@csi.net>; from rpl@flashcom.net on Wed, May 30, 2001 at 10:50:25PM -0500 References: <200105310248.f4V2m2K15789@sprite.real-time.com> <000f01c0e984$d3fc5c20$cd8be23f@csi.net> Message-ID: <20010530225711.E857@real-time.com> Quoting bob (rpl@flashcom.net): > RH 6.1 server, is off about 1 hr 10 minutes.. > > how does one set time ? preferably via a time server. > > sorry for such a simple question.. have looked various places.. Install xntp. vi /etc/ntpd.conf Add server lines, from you isp server clock1.myisp.net server clock2.myisp.net vi /etc/ntp.d/step-tickers clock1.myisp.net clock2.myisp.net /etc/rc.d/init.d/xntpd restart -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Wed May 30 22:59:23 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How much does MS pay these guys? In-Reply-To: <3B15AA10.9070106@mn.rr.com> References: <20010530173010.C13714@real-time.com> <3B15AA10.9070106@mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <20010530225923.21c89f1e.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Steve wrote: > > I hear things like this a lot and not just from geeks. Public > perception is changing direction slowly, much like a steamroller. I > would hate to be the one standing in front of the steamroller trying to > stop it. Heh.. /me recalls the scene from Austin Powers.. A few years ago, Linux news sites were all abuzz with the fact that Linux appears to have a 100% growth rate from year to year. Did you get a friend interested in Linux in the last 12 months? Well, doubling might be stretching things, but Linux is and has been growing amazingly well. IDC still says Linux only holds about 1% of the desktop market, which I find really hard to believe. Of course, they base their figures on sales of pre-installed systems, so the numbers are skewed. Probably the scariest thing for Microsoft is the fact that they have no idea how many Linux desktops are out there. I think that if MS makes a bad move, there's a good possibility that their market share will drop by 5-10% almost overnight as people who have been trying out Linux finally get fed up and wipe their Windows installs. But I might just be crazy -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Unificatiory. / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Thu May 31 08:02:53 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How much does MS pay these guys? In-Reply-To: <20010530225923.21c89f1e.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: Heh. I think you're crazy. Or at least from my corporatist perspective, it's damn unlikely to switch OS platforms on anything beyond a seismic shift. I think MS is too PR savvy to shoot themselves in the foot that badly. Witness Hailstorm. That is some pretty neat technology. It just happens to leave the keys to the kingdom in MS's hand. If it turns out that really matters to the joe-user/joe-corporatist then maybe that's a bad move. If it doesn't rain on those users too much then it's not *too* bad. Josh ___SIG___ On Wed, 30 May 2001, Mike Hicks wrote: > Steve wrote: > > > > I hear things like this a lot and not just from geeks. Public > > perception is changing direction slowly, much like a steamroller. I > > would hate to be the one standing in front of the steamroller trying to > > stop it. > > Heh.. /me recalls the scene from Austin Powers.. > > A few years ago, Linux news sites were all abuzz with the fact that Linux > appears to have a 100% growth rate from year to year. Did you get a > friend interested in Linux in the last 12 months? Well, doubling might be > stretching things, but Linux is and has been growing amazingly well. > > IDC still says Linux only holds about 1% of the desktop market, which I > find really hard to believe. Of course, they base their figures on sales > of pre-installed systems, so the numbers are skewed. > > Probably the scariest thing for Microsoft is the fact that they have no > idea how many Linux desktops are out there. I think that if MS makes a > bad move, there's a good possibility that their market share will drop by > 5-10% almost overnight as people who have been trying out Linux finally > get fed up and wipe their Windows installs. > > But I might just be crazy > > -- > _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Unificatiory. > / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ > \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) > [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From dcsherman at qwest.net Thu May 31 08:53:25 2001 From: dcsherman at qwest.net (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How much does MS pay these guys? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01053108532503.00921@dedannshae.thuria.org> You might want to read these articles before you make any judgments in favor of hailstorm. They are a bit long (especially the second one), but well written and informative. http://www.openp2p.com/pub/a/p2p/2001/05/30/hailstorm.html http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/200104/200104.htm Dave On Thursday 31 May 2001 08:02, thus spake Joshua Jore: > Heh. I think you're crazy. Or at least from my corporatist perspective, > it's damn unlikely to switch OS platforms on anything beyond a seismic > shift. I think MS is too PR savvy to shoot themselves in the foot that > badly. Witness Hailstorm. That is some pretty neat technology. It just > happens to leave the keys to the kingdom in MS's hand. If it turns out > that really matters to the joe-user/joe-corporatist then maybe that's a > bad move. If it doesn't rain on those users too much then it's not *too* > bad. > > Josh > -- "Nihil tam munitum quod non expugnari pecunia possit. (No fortification is such that it cannot be subdued with money." - Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 B.C. From bgilbertson at stonel.com Thu May 31 07:13:59 2001 From: bgilbertson at stonel.com (Bob Gilbertson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] laser printer recommendation References: Message-ID: <3B163587.EDAA53A5@stonel.com> Hello, I think native PS simplifies things. One thing I would look for is an ethernet port. More expensive, but adds a lot of functionality. No preference on particular brand/model. Regards, Bob Gilbertson Timothy Wilson wrote: > > Is is worth the money to get something that speaks PS natively? If not, I > imagine there are quite a few that would be OK. > > Any recommendations? Both PS and non-PS. > > -Tim From zibby at ringworld.org Thu May 31 09:10:56 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How much does MS pay these guys? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Is it just me or is Hailstorm a really bad product name? They must not get golf ball, baseball, and softball sized hail in Redmond. I hear hailstorm and my first reaction is duck and cover. :) | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Thu May 31 09:48:08 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How much does MS pay these guys? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 31 May 2001, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > Is it just me or is Hailstorm a really bad product name? They must not get > golf ball, baseball, and softball sized hail in Redmond. I hear hailstorm > and my first reaction is duck and cover. :) Nah, doesn't matter -- that's my reaction when I hear MS. ;) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From zibby at ringworld.org Thu May 31 10:07:54 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] laser printer recommendation In-Reply-To: <3B163587.EDAA53A5@stonel.com> Message-ID: > I think native PS simplifies things. Definitly, but very hard to find on personal printers. Ghostscript supports alot of printers and the tools for setting them up are good, so I wouldn't be too conserned with this. > One thing I would look for is an ethernet port. Most personal printers won't have one. HP adds this functionality to personal printers via external JetDirect printservers. JetDirect servers that use ethernet start at $150. If you printer is USB only, HP makes the only prinservers I've seen so far that support them. If your looking for a network soultion for your personal printer(s) I recoment the Netgear print servers. Pretty slick setup via the windows software, or by simply editing the config file and transfering via ftp. Seems that not every option in the config file is documented, but that's ok. The ones you need are. It's a slick lille embedded device that support LPD and SMB printing (as well as some less common forms of network printing.) I have one running a printer in the office. Thinking of getting one for myself. To print to one of these to a non-ps printer in linux you would have to use lprng as lprng supports filtering print jobs before sending them to a network spool. (Also useful when your workstations are Athlons and your print server is a 486.) | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | His power apparently lies in his ability to | | choose incompetent enemies. | | - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" | On Thu, 31 May 2001, Bob Gilbertson wrote: > Hello, > > > > No preference on particular brand/model. > > Regards, > Bob Gilbertson > > Timothy Wilson wrote: > > > > Is is worth the money to get something that speaks PS natively? If not, I > > imagine there are quite a few that would be OK. > > > > Any recommendations? Both PS and non-PS. > > > > -Tim > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Thu May 31 10:32:41 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:50 2005 Subject: OT Re: [TCLUG] laser printer recommendation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 31 May 2001, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > It's a slick lille embedded device that support > LPD and SMB printing (as well as some less common forms of network > printing.) I have one running a printer in the office. Thinking of > getting one for myself. This is OT because it's IRIX/Linux. Even though it's pretty simple stuff, the most impressed I've been with computers was a couple of days ago when IRIX 6.5 automagically figgered out how to talk to lprng on the Linux box with the laser printer attached. Golly, that was swell! -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From lxy at cloudnet.com Thu May 31 11:23:27 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How much does MS pay these guys? In-Reply-To: <20010530190322.A17549@candle.rawstew> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 May 2001, Nate Straz wrote: > send out more FUD. I don't know what crap he's trying to throw out by > 64-bit chip that Win64 is going to be the default and Linux won't have a > chance? As I understand it, the IA-64 is finally out as a supercomputer platform only. What's really interesting is that linux runs on it.. Micro$oft does not yet have an OS to run on a 64 bit architecture. Anyway, that's what I HEARD, salt to taste, your milage may vary. > IMNSHO, MS is paying people for entire magazines. I used to read > PC/Computing until I got so sick of the MS worshiping I couldn't even > look at the cover anymore. Yay! Somebody else noticed!!! Unless it says "linux" in the title, I've stopped reading those "PC" magazines. They are either A) owned by Microsoft in some way B) paid by someone to influence their reporting or C) just totally ignorant. Some of them it's hard to tell. I noticed a magazine about "the top 10 products you need to secure your network". Well, apparently they've never heard of Cisco, linux, or *BSD because it was all SOFTWARE to run on your oh so precious NT boxen. If you're running an NT box and you don't have a PHYSICAL firewall in front of it, you deserve to be hacked in my completely anal opinion. Anyway, there's my rant for the day. -Brian From lxy at cloudnet.com Thu May 31 11:33:07 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] setting time from time server In-Reply-To: <000f01c0e984$d3fc5c20$cd8be23f@csi.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 May 2001, bob wrote: > RH 6.1 server, is off about 1 hr 10 minutes.. The simpelest way I know of is to install xntp and then write a script like: #!/bin/sh /usr/sbin/ntpdate time.nist.gov and throw it in /etc/rc.d/rc3.d/ and /etc/cron.daily. It's cheesy, and without a lot of tweaking your clock won't be perfect (usually a few seconds because of lag and what not) but for most applications, it's good enough for government work :-) -Brian From austad at marketwatch.com Thu May 31 11:34:49 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How much does MS pay these guys? Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280837@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> > As I understand it, the IA-64 is finally out as a > supercomputer platform > only. What's really interesting is that linux runs on it.. > Micro$oft does > not yet have an OS to run on a 64 bit architecture. Anyway, > that's what I > HEARD, salt to taste, your milage may vary. MS has a 64-bit version of Whisler running on 16 processor IA-64 Compaq servers. It's not released yet. I friend of mine does some consulting work for MS, and he's used it. Apparently it runs fairly well. However, since Linux already runs on it, and MS won't have their OS out for it until probably the end of the year, the release of this platform in June/July is going to be a huge blow to MS. Companies with money are going to be itching to get their hands on them, and they'll be forced to use linux on it if they want to be early adopters. From lxy at cloudnet.com Thu May 31 11:40:35 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How much does MS pay these guys? In-Reply-To: <20010530225923.21c89f1e.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 May 2001, Mike Hicks wrote: > > Probably the scariest thing for Microsoft is the fact that they have no > idea how many Linux desktops are out there. This is true. It's tough to judge how many people are using linux because A) it's free, and there's no registration of any kind and B) most people who run linux don't BUY PCs. We can almost assume that if Joe Consumer purchases a case, mobo, and CPU there will probably be a linux install somewhere on the machine. He may use Window$ 99% of the time but chances are he's heard of linux and is starting to play with it. So I find that 1% estimate to be incredibly skewed. I'm assuming that's based on sales from Dell, Compaq, VA, Penguin computing, etc which all sell boxen built for serving, not end users. The amount of those systems actually running Gnome is probably quite small, and therefore the 1% estimate. -Brian From dd-b at dd-b.net Thu May 31 12:16:24 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] setting time from time server In-Reply-To: <20010530225711.E857@real-time.com> References: <200105310248.f4V2m2K15789@sprite.real-time.com> <000f01c0e984$d3fc5c20$cd8be23f@csi.net> <20010530225711.E857@real-time.com> Message-ID: Bob Tanner writes: > Install xntp. > vi /etc/ntpd.conf > > Add server lines, from you isp > > server clock1.myisp.net > server clock2.myisp.net So, are there a couple of public, or available to Qwest customers, ntp servers around? I've got ntp in and running, with servers that were published as public and haven't minded me, but I'd like to drop at *least* one of the far-away ones in favor of something closer, if there is anything. -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From veldy at veldy.net Thu May 31 12:22:48 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] setting time from time server References: <200105310248.f4V2m2K15789@sprite.real-time.com><000f01c0e984$d3fc5c20$cd8be23f@csi.net><20010530225711.E857@real-time.com> Message-ID: <009001c0e9f6$50f08320$3028680a@tgt.com> Here is the contents of my /etc/ntp.conf server kuhub.cc.ukans.edu server utcnist.colorado.edu server clock.oit.umass.edu server time-b.nist.gov driftfile /etc/ntp.drift Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Dyer-Bennet" To: Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] setting time from time server > Bob Tanner writes: > > > Install xntp. > > vi /etc/ntpd.conf > > > > Add server lines, from you isp > > > > server clock1.myisp.net > > server clock2.myisp.net > > So, are there a couple of public, or available to Qwest customers, ntp > servers around? I've got ntp in and running, with servers that were > published as public and haven't minded me, but I'd like to drop at > *least* one of the far-away ones in favor of something closer, if > there is anything. > -- > David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net > SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ > Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From lxy at cloudnet.com Thu May 31 12:25:25 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How much does MS pay these guys? In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280837@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 May 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > > MS has a 64-bit version of Whisler running on 16 processor IA-64 Compaq > servers. It's not released yet. I friend of mine does some consulting work > for MS, and he's used it. Apparently it runs fairly well. However, since > Linux already runs on it, and MS won't have their OS out for it until > probably the end of the year, the release of this platform in June/July is > going to be a huge blow to MS. Companies with money are going to be itching > to get their hands on them, and they'll be forced to use linux on it if they > want to be early adopters. What about applications? I'm assuming that for the most part "porting" a linux app to the architecture is a matter of getting a C compiler that compiles 64 bit code (we assume this is done, as the kernel runs on 64 bits) and then just running 'make' to recompile the existing code into a 64 bit app. Now granted, it won't be OPTIMIZED until some later date but at least the app will run on the new platform. Is this correct? On the Windows side, it seems that doing the same sort of thing is just too much work and they need to start over every time they move to a new architecture. At least this has been in the past. Am I correct in assuming that because linux is designed to be portable that its kernel, compiler (already done), and apps will port over quickly, whereas Micro$oft will see many code re-writes to get their stuff to run? Or will their current apps speak 32 bit to the kernel and the kernel speaks 64 to the chip? I'm just thinking about the edge linux will have come Jan when linux has the whole suite of apps, old and new, running on the IA-64 and Micro$oft is putting out it's late and still buggy versions of Whi$tler/XP/whatever. -Brian From esper at sherohman.org Thu May 31 12:40:36 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How much does MS pay these guys? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010531124036.B11834@sherohman.org> On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 12:25:25PM -0500, Brian wrote: > Or will > their current apps speak 32 bit to the kernel and the kernel speaks 64 to > the chip? Well, NT created a 16-bit envrionment within the 32-bit system and Win9x was a 16/32-bit hybrid. I don't know about 2k/ME/XP, but I'd say there's a pretty strong precedent for MS doing nonsense like that. The real question is whether they'll run a 16-bit emulator in a 32-bit environment on a 64-bit system. -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Thu May 31 12:51:26 2001 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question about backing up through samba Message-ID: <15126.33950.154019.978813@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> I have a laptop Win 2K box that I am trying to backup to a linux box. What I do is automount a directory of the Win2K box through samba (smbfs) and periodically tar up an image of it, using the --listed-incremental option: tar --listed-incremental=${backupdir}/tarlist --label "zerbina backup $date" --exclude inbox --exclude="My\ Music" --exclude="fms" --exclude="vm" --exclude="Installs" --exclude="uai-2001-papers" --exclude='5plane-complete.mov' -czf ${backupdir}//${date}.tgz zerbina [sorry about the long line!] The problem is that the listed-incremental doesn't seem to work, as can be seen from this directory listing: -rw-rw-r-- 1 goldman goldman 435485523 May 11 17:01 2001-05-11.tgz -rw-rw-r-- 1 goldman goldman 443176213 May 14 17:19 2001-05-14.tgz -rw-rw-r-- 1 goldman goldman 453573798 May 25 17:33 2001-05-25.tgz -rw-rw-r-- 1 goldman goldman 453519296 May 29 16:46 2001-05-29.tgz -rw-rw-r-- 1 goldman goldman 453806170 May 30 17:10 2001-05-30.tgz I KNOW I'm not modifying 453 MB of data per day. The only clue I have is that the tar documentation (which is pretty poor) says that incremental backups use information from the inode. So I thought that maybe using smbfs, this inode information is goofy. Any of you trying to do something similar? Do you have a work-around? I have been using taper for backing linux up to tape, so I was thinking of trying that, but I figured that the incremental on taper might work equally poorly. Any suggestions? Thanks! R From zibby at ringworld.org Thu May 31 13:21:52 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question about backing up through samba In-Reply-To: <15126.33950.154019.978813@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: Is the laptop using VFAT or NTFS? With samba this shouldn't make a difference but it might be useful for future reference. I belive the problem you are having is that the standard tar cannot read the archive bit via smbfs. I suggest trying smbtar, which should be included with samba. In Debian, smbtar is in the smbclient package. | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." | | Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. | | Always a boom tomorrow." | From mjn at umn.edu Thu May 31 13:22:01 2001 From: mjn at umn.edu (mjn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Upgrade question... Message-ID: So I stemmed my urges to upgrade from RedHat 6.1 to 7 because of the impending release of 7.1. My question is this: How much is this upgrade going to suck given that i have not installed all of the software on this machine via RPM? I have one or two packages that NEED to work which were compiled and not RPM'd most of the rest can limp for a few days without it causing a problem. Comments? Suggestions on steps to take to curb the suckage? Word. ____________________________ Mike Neuharth ADCS Technology Specialist http://www.umn.edu/adcs E-Mail : mjn@umn.edu Page Mail : 6126486512@page.metrocall.com http://supermonkeycollider.dyndns.org/ ____________________________ From veldy at veldy.net Thu May 31 13:45:41 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Upgrade question... References: Message-ID: <00dd01c0ea01$e4cad9a0$3028680a@tgt.com> RedHat 7.1 has been out for a while. It is much better than 7.0 (as far as bugs are concerned). The old apps "might" continue working. Depends on the app. I haven't had too much trouble during a glibc upgrade. Perhaps you might upgrade and then recompile these apps. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "mjn" To: "Twirling Pickles of Death" Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 1:22 PM Subject: [TCLUG] Upgrade question... > So I stemmed my urges to upgrade from RedHat 6.1 to 7 because of the > impending release of 7.1. > > My question is this: How much is this upgrade going to suck given that i > have not installed all of the software on this machine via RPM? I have > one or two packages that NEED to work which were compiled and not RPM'd > most of the rest can limp for a few days without it causing a problem. > > Comments? Suggestions on steps to take to curb the suckage? > > Word. > > ____________________________ > Mike Neuharth > ADCS Technology Specialist > http://www.umn.edu/adcs > > E-Mail : mjn@umn.edu > Page Mail : 6126486512@page.metrocall.com > http://supermonkeycollider.dyndns.org/ > ____________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From AROBERTS at JJHILL.ORG Thu May 31 14:11:35 2001 From: AROBERTS at JJHILL.ORG (Aaron Roberts) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Authentication to Active Directory Message-ID: <417223FAEA09D111B7EE00805FC14FBE9A6F71@mail.jjhill.org> I am both new to this group and to Linux in general. I am considering migrating some of my Windows NT stations to Linux, and I was wondering if someone could give me instructions on how to have the Linux stations log into Active Directory. I am assuming that the query is made via LDAP, but I need to get more specific. I've enjoyed reading the conversations in the group so far, and I'm anxious to learn! Thanks, Aaron -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010531/88192d4b/attachment.htm From chrome at real-time.com Thu May 31 14:15:57 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question about backing up through samba In-Reply-To: <15126.33950.154019.978813@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com>; from goldman@htc.honeywell.com on Thu, May 31, 2001 at 12:51:26PM -0500 References: <15126.33950.154019.978813@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: <20010531141557.I1548@real-time.com> > The problem is that the listed-incremental doesn't seem to work, as > can be seen from this directory listing: > The only clue I have is that the tar documentation (which is pretty > poor) says that incremental backups use information from the inode. > So I thought that maybe using smbfs, this inode information is goofy. yep. I seem to remember that you can't do incremental backups of an smb-mounted filesystem. (at least not with tar). Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From zibby at ringworld.org Thu May 31 14:32:56 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Authentication to Active Directory In-Reply-To: <417223FAEA09D111B7EE00805FC14FBE9A6F71@mail.jjhill.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 May 2001, Aaron Roberts wrote: > I am both new to this group and to Linux in general. I am considering > migrating some of my Windows NT stations to Linux, and I was wondering if > someone could give me instructions on how to have the Linux stations log > into Active Directory. I am assuming that the query is made via LDAP, but I > need to get more specific. I'm by no means an expert on this yet, but I've gotten it working in two ways: With NT4 I used pam-smb-auth to verify users agnist the domain. For the limited use situation, it worked. Lately I've been working on kerberos. It more or less works, but in the end you have the same limitations as pam-smb-auth. (will get to those in a second.) This document: http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/techinfo/planning/security/kerbsteps.asp Describes how to get windows 2000, *NIX, and Kerberos to play nice. So far I've only gotten my workstation verifiny/changing my AD password agnist the Win2K KDC, which requires a machine account for each user on the workstation. I don't yet know if you can do much more (with windows 2000 anyway) without getting the "UNIX services for Windows" addon. | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." | | Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. | | Always a boom tomorrow." | From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Thu May 31 15:48:52 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How much does MS pay these guys? In-Reply-To: <01053108532503.00921@dedannshae.thuria.org> Message-ID: Perhaps I should have clarified myself. I like what hailstorm is doing for pushing SOAP and RPC in general into the teeming masses of devices. As a corporate developer, this sort of thing just makes my life so much easier. It's not as if I haven't had other ways to get stuff done this whole time, this just happens to be a new way. So for all that, it's nifty stuff. The other bit, and this is a biggie, is the control this gives to MS over the whole protocol. Since MS holds all the authentication and related data there's a huge gaping wide chasm between the raw MS implementation and MS-less hailstorm. I'm likely to check out Sun's JXTA since I've actually read more stuff on that and it seems less likely to be an analogue to selling my soul to MS's data centers. Essentially, I like the idea of a Megaco-less Hailstorm. I won't, however, be using Hailstorm anytime soon given it's current dependancies. I just think the issue is more complex than Hailstorm == Microsoft.Bad(). Unless I'm missing something I'd probably really like a GNU (or even better, BSD) licensed Hailstorm. Josh Jore ___SIG___ On Thu, 31 May 2001, Dave Sherman wrote: > You might want to read these articles before you make any judgments in > favor of hailstorm. They are a bit long (especially the second one), but > well written and informative. > > http://www.openp2p.com/pub/a/p2p/2001/05/30/hailstorm.html > http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/200104/200104.htm > > Dave > > On Thursday 31 May 2001 08:02, thus spake Joshua Jore: > > Heh. I think you're crazy. Or at least from my corporatist perspective, > > it's damn unlikely to switch OS platforms on anything beyond a seismic > > shift. I think MS is too PR savvy to shoot themselves in the foot that > > badly. Witness Hailstorm. That is some pretty neat technology. It just > > happens to leave the keys to the kingdom in MS's hand. If it turns out > > that really matters to the joe-user/joe-corporatist then maybe that's a > > bad move. If it doesn't rain on those users too much then it's not *too* > > bad. > > > > Josh > > > > -- > "Nihil tam munitum quod non expugnari pecunia possit. (No > fortification is such that it cannot be subdued with money." > - Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 B.C. > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From seg at haxxed.com Thu May 31 16:34:07 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] best way to chk if named is running and restart if not References: <001101c0e8d7$7bd95ff0$2e7d1acc@csi.net> Message-ID: <3B16B8CF.FF4D5A8B@haxxed.com> bob wrote: > > RedHat 6.1 server. Running as DNS server. Named stops randomly. > > What is the best way to chk if named is running and to restart named if it > is stopped? I've been considering writing a script to do this... I figure you could just take advantage of sysv init, go through /etc/init.d/, run each script with 'status', if its running good, if its dead start it... But Debian apparently doesn't implement 'status'. Blah. And seems to me, the ultimate thing would be to run everything from init, since it already has logic for keeping processes running, without flooding the system with spawns... From natecars at real-time.com Thu May 31 16:33:11 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] best way to chk if named is running and restart if not In-Reply-To: <3B16B8CF.FF4D5A8B@haxxed.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 May 2001, Callum Lerwick wrote: > > RedHat 6.1 server. Running as DNS server. Named stops randomly. > > > > What is the best way to chk if named is running and to restart named if it > > is stopped? > > I've been considering writing a script to do this... I figure you could > just take advantage of sysv init, go through /etc/init.d/, run each > script with 'status', if its running good, if its dead start it... > > But Debian apparently doesn't implement 'status'. Blah. And seems to me, > the ultimate thing would be to run everything from init, since it > already has logic for keeping processes running, without flooding the > system with spawns... or just use netsaint to check it, and rig up an external script to have it start. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From dcsherman at qwest.net Thu May 31 16:36:55 2001 From: dcsherman at qwest.net (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How much does MS pay these guys? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01053116365503.01358@dedannshae.thuria.org> From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Thu May 31 16:39:36 2001 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question about backing up through samba In-Reply-To: References: <15126.33950.154019.978813@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: <15126.47640.815425.271990@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Thanks! Right after sending that message I stumbled on smbtar and I am going to try using that. I am not sure how the archive bit works, but thought I'd start the incremental process by using the -N option with a logfile. For those who are interested, I did find a small bug with smbtar --- it doesn't accept the workgroup option to smbclient, which people may want. I made a quick patch, and would be happy to send the patched script to anyone who wants it. Cheers, R From zibby at ringworld.org Thu May 31 16:57:28 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question about backing up through samba In-Reply-To: <15126.47640.815425.271990@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: > am going to try using that. I am not sure how the archive bit works, > but thought I'd start the incremental process by using the -N option > with a logfile. Archive bit is either on or off. It is set off by your backup software, and on by your os when a file is written to. I'm fairly certin that smbfs can't read this bit, but smbclient can. I thought of another reason why you're backups might fail. When you login to the server via smbfs or smbclient, the user you log in as needs to have full read/write/modify permissions to the drive so that it can reset the archive bit. | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." | | Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. | | Always a boom tomorrow." | From clay at fandre.com Wed May 30 20:16:30 2001 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] TCLUG Meeting this Saturday Message-ID: <3B159B6E.37A1A600@fandre.com> Next TCLUG Meeting What: Twin Cities Linux Users Group Meeting When: Saturday June 2, 2001 noon - 2pm Topic: qmail Where: Benchmark Computer Learning Center 4510 West 77th Street Edina, MN Directions to Benchmark http://www.benchmarklearning.com/Directions_to_Benchmark.asp The seminar room is on the 2nd floor which is the floor you enter on from the west side, while the east entrance comes in on the 1st floor. Parking: Free parking. Please visit the TCLUG website if you are planning on attending so we can estimate how many are coming. For more information check out the TCLUG meeting page: http://www.mn-linux.org/meetings/ _______________________________________________ tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce From chrome at real-time.com Thu May 31 17:31:45 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Wright County Auction In-Reply-To: ; from lxy@cloudnet.com on Wed, May 30, 2001 at 12:37:23PM -0500 References: <20010530115617.A16547@iaxs.net> Message-ID: <20010531173145.O1548@real-time.com> > Well, it's an auction. Generally it runs til noon or so, with the > computer stuff being towards the end. There's other stuff too, like > de-commisioned cop cars and confiscated stuff from drug busts and the > like. Occasionally you'll find better computers that have been seized > than what our department throws out, but it's not common. occasionally there are some humorous moments; like at the '99 auction, they sold off a Cyrix 200, with a couple of boxes of garbage Windows software, plus some surge suppressors, plus a 'monitor', for $300. the 'monitor' was a Wyse dumb terminal. :) I'd hate to be the guy who bought it... betcha it's still sitting in boxes somewhere because he can't figure out how to plug the 'monitor' in. ;> at the same auction, I bought a stack of 486/25's and /33's... still have some of them. raped the memory out of most of them, and ended up with a few usable firewalls. $10 for 3 486/25's is a pretty good deal, even if one or two of them go belly-up later. (dead power supply and dead video... wasn't worth fixing them). there were a couple of 486/66s that went for $60/ea; but the buyer later told me there were 32MB SIMMS in them... (for 1999, a really good buy). Carl Soderstrom. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu May 31 18:04:05 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How much does MS pay these guys? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010531180405.7bbc4201.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" wrote: > > Is it just me or is Hailstorm a really bad product name? They must not > get golf ball, baseball, and softball sized hail in Redmond. I hear > hailstorm and my first reaction is duck and cover. :) Wait, I've seen this movie -- the `Hacker Hailstorm' is a nuclear command and control system in `Canadian Bacon'.. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ A lot of people are / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ afraid of heights. Not \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) me, I'm afraid of widths. [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu May 31 18:58:20 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How much does MS pay these guys? In-Reply-To: References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280837@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20010531185820.4855cb34.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Brian wrote: > > What about applications? I'm assuming that for the most part "porting" > a linux app to the architecture is a matter of getting a C compiler that > compiles 64 bit code (we assume this is done, as the kernel runs on 64 > bits) and then just running 'make' to recompile the existing code into a > 64 bit app. Now granted, it won't be OPTIMIZED until some later date > but at least the app will run on the new platform. Is this correct? I think that's basically true, but there are a lot of apps out there that aren't 64-bit clean. If applications are properly written, there isn't a problem, but I don't know how many developers have been taught how to do that (I certainly wasn't). Some architectures allow you to run 32-bit code (Linux on UltraSPARC, for instance), though that might get used as a crutch sometimes. > On the Windows side, it seems that doing the same sort of thing is just > too much work and they need to start over every time they move to a new > architecture. At least this has been in the past. Am I correct in > assuming that because linux is designed to be portable that its kernel, > compiler (already done), and apps will port over quickly, whereas > Micro$oft will see many code re-writes to get their stuff to run? Maybe. Windows NT also ran on several different architectures until Win2k came around, one of them being the 64-bit Alpha. I've heard that a very large amount of code is surrounded with #ifdef's to differentiate between 32-bit and 64-bit code, but that might just be a rumor. I don't know how long Microsoft has been working on Windows XP > Or will their current apps speak 32 bit to the kernel and the kernel > speaks 64 to the chip? I'm just thinking about the edge linux will have > come Jan when linux has the whole suite of apps, old and new, running on > the IA-64 and Micro$oft is putting out it's late and still buggy > versions of Whi$tler/XP/whatever. I don't know.. I'm not sure if the Itanium can execute 32-bit code or not. Microsoft probably should have an emulation layer for 32-bit applications. If you want to go back to 16-bit, port DOSEmu or something ;-) Like Dave said, WinNT (and OS/2) basically had an emulation layer for 16-bit apps -- if I remember correctly, you could even run 16/32-bit DOS apps on non-x86 machines (I know that was true for the (unreleased?) PowerPC version of OS/2). -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ What the fuck is a / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ hefalump? \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From nate at techie.com Thu May 31 19:56:26 2001 From: nate at techie.com (Nate Straz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How much does MS pay these guys? In-Reply-To: <20010531185820.4855cb34.hick0088@tc.umn.edu>; from hick0088@tc.umn.edu on Thu, May 31, 2001 at 06:58:20PM -0500 References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280837@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> <20010531185820.4855cb34.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010531195626.A6834@candle.rawstew> I feel like I have to clarify a few things as someone who has been playing with ia64 hardware for the last year. I'm not sure not sure if I'm free from the NDA since the chip is released, but what the heck. :) As far as Linux is concerned, you can run any Linux Intel binary on Itanium. The chip does a switch of some kind and runs the code natively. It's not fast, but what do you expect when it takes four years for Intel to paste on 32-bit support to HP's 64-bit processor? Sure you'll want to recompile apps for speed, but the Linux distros ship with i386 libraries for compatibility. I don't know what's going on with Windows on 64-bit. I know that work is being done there, but I don't know how much. Also, in response to Brian's comment on ia64 as a supercomputer chip, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You must be kidding. Sure, it's mostly a server chip at this point, but you're not going to see any Itanium supercomputers. Sure, you'll see some clusters and some 16p servers, but not supercomputers. Nate From tanner at real-time.com Thu May 31 22:00:00 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] In my continuing saga to bring bad news... Message-ID: <20010531220000.W23403@real-time.com> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/20010531/tc/why_2001_is_not_the_year_of_the_penguin__1.html More bad press on linux. Am I such a zelot, that I can't see the truth through the blinding light I believe eminates from Tux? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From ben at nerp.net Thu May 31 22:18:01 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] In my continuing saga to bring bad news... In-Reply-To: <20010531220000.W23403@real-time.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- no, i see all these arguments, and especialy when it comes to some of the home arguments.. the thing is.. all of the arguments hinge around the fact that the uesrs switching to linux, are allready familiar with windows. and it's way of doing things. things like "cryptic unix filesytem" are silly arguments.. for those people I have taught linux, who never have used computers before. /home/person makes perfect sense, and /floppy, and /cdrom also make sense. things like drive letters, where if you're on computer #1, H: is user1's home files, but if you're on another computer it's user2's files.. and being able to swap computers, by just changing who you are, and having access to all your files is golden for my business users. Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Thu, 31 May 2001, Bob Tanner wrote: > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/20010531/tc/why_2001_is_not_the_year_of_the_penguin__1.html > > More bad press on linux. > > Am I such a zelot, that I can't see the truth through the blinding light I > believe eminates from Tux? > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOxcJastpDhsSpvgtAQHXAgQAgdTnYa7cvb241EcgQybK3AAqJsMZlrgh vcgON92AFdAPk08FuV75ZRNJSrzyhT9/Bn7hyg8weWkMlEb19B9CngGU6xxBu1xX hmfJGpghYhtYpeUGA38bH5NCHtcDuQgDpcMST6qYo2cq8WNmcfX8DvIEJQ3MAqJ8 tTvCnr53Pmg= =msGJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jacque at fruitioninc.com Thu May 31 22:14:21 2001 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] In my continuing saga to bring bad news... In-Reply-To: <20010531220000.W23403@real-time.com> Message-ID: I guess I'd agree with alot of these points that Mr. Reynauld makes. I don't think he's bad-mouthing Linux. He's pointing out what is really keeping it from becoming mainstream. Maybe all the admins on the list are forgetting what its like to be a luser. I know that I can't personally start using Linux full-time until Flash, Photoshop, Illustrator and UltraDev work reliably. Thats just the reality of the situation. I definitely would like to see Linux succeed in the market and hence my involment with this group, but before we can move forward we need to accept the shortcomings and try to find solutions to them. Besides, as the saying goes, "all press is good press". The fact that people are talking about Linux at all means that there is something about Linux that needs to be said. Don't get yourself down, Bob. ~jacque > > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/20010531/tc/why_2001_is_not_the_ye > ar_of_the_penguin__1.html > > More bad press on linux. > > Am I such a zelot, that I can't see the truth through the blinding light I > believe eminates from Tux? > From florin at iucha.net Thu May 31 22:51:25 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How much does MS pay these guys? In-Reply-To: <20010531185820.4855cb34.hick0088@tc.umn.edu>; from hick0088@tc.umn.edu on Thu, May 31, 2001 at 06:58:20PM -0500 References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280837@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> <20010531185820.4855cb34.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010531225125.A7051@beaver.iucha.org> On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 06:58:20PM -0500, Mike Hicks wrote: > > On the Windows side, it seems that doing the same sort of thing is just > > too much work and they need to start over every time they move to a new > > architecture. At least this has been in the past. Am I correct in > > assuming that because linux is designed to be portable that its kernel, > > compiler (already done), and apps will port over quickly, whereas > > Micro$oft will see many code re-writes to get their stuff to run? > > Maybe. Windows NT also ran on several different architectures until Win2k > came around, one of them being the 64-bit Alpha. I've heard that a very > large amount of code is surrounded with #ifdef's to differentiate between > 32-bit and 64-bit code, but that might just be a rumor. I don't know how > long Microsoft has been working on Windows XP NT never run on 64 bit Alpha natively. It ran as 32 bit. Also I guess in the frenzy of porting all their apps from 16 bits to 32 bits they didn't think about making provisions for the 64 bitness... florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4