Truth in advertising: "Serving ourselves, not the customer." I don't think it's any wonder that a lot of folks find it easy to get on the 'big bad evil proprietary daemons' bandwagon. They do give capitalists a bad name. >>> dieman+tclug at ringworld.org 12/13/01 11:55AM >>> >But microsoft has made that annoying with the no-java-in-winxp-thing.